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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Syt on December 06, 2015, 01:55:02 PM

Title: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2015, 01:55:02 PM
As has been suggested, a generic thread for venting about the things our yet-friends and family members post on Facebook that we bear in silence so as to not to make interactions more awkward than they already are.

My oldest sister and her husband have just shared the following. As best I can tell they did so unironically.

Quote‪#‎MarkZuckerburg‬
THANK YOU, MARK ZUCKERBERG, for your forward-thinking generosity! And congrats on becoming a dad!
Mark Zuckerberg has announced that he is giving away $45 billion of Facebook stock. What you may not have heard is that he plans to give 10% of it away to people like YOU and ME! All you have to do is copy and paste this message into a post IMMEDIATELY and tag 5-10 of your friends. At midnight PST, Facebook will search through the day's posts and award 1000 people with $4.5 million EACH as a way of saying thank you for making Facebook such a powerful vehicle for connection and philanthropy.
I hope someone I know gets a piece of the pie--let me know if you do!!!...because I know you all have the true Christmas spirit and would do AMAZING things! 🏻

And the usual political re-posting.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10420057_203185060021508_6772321026919433811_n.jpg?oh=0e8338d8bbe581d2c8c3408c5074ab31&oe=56ED057A&__gda__=1457960260_53ca3c181e4b6d69c27729a5c252877a)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12243328_1710334955863886_5603129766753987051_n.png?oh=9a76618dc47a8d8425d82dbdfdf9276c&oe=56E26C2C&__gda__=1458067355_e703785e0a53a971ae9ed85d189dba8f)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12294617_1219179831430015_4276700869677198327_n.jpg?oh=e9da4db84a3bd90417c35fa1fe6b139d&oe=571FAB6E&__gda__=1457195592_133482dcfaa46c2c0de469042e1c4d38)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 06, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
All that fancy education didn't teach The Donald the difference between it's and its.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 06, 2015, 03:10:44 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 06, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
All that fancy education didn't teach The Donald the difference between it's and its.

America is citizens. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 06, 2015, 03:18:58 PM
Err, we the people? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 07, 2015, 07:38:34 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/12314384_10153139922367312_4504186220333547268_o.jpg)

Toutes mes condoléances au peuple français.
Translation: All my sympathies to the French people.

From a German, no less. ;)
Context: high score for the FN in regional elections, except in Paris. Highest score ever in Île-de-France but lower than most other regions but Brittany, Le Pen's region. ;)

PS: there is no Ed in this picture, no need to look for him. Traffic in Paris scares him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 07, 2015, 08:14:06 AM
My French friends react with more drama over this than my Swedish friends when Sverigedemokraterne won. Pictures of burning passports has been posted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 07, 2015, 08:56:20 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 07, 2015, 08:14:06 AM
My French friends react with more drama over this than my Swedish friends when Sverigedemokraterne won. Pictures of burning passports has been posted.

Real ones?  :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 07, 2015, 09:17:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2015, 01:55:02 PM
As has been suggested, a generic thread for venting about the things our yet-friends and family members post on Facebook that we bear in silence so as to not to make interactions more awkward than they already are.


Syt, good implementation of a thread idea.  :D

We can widen it to other media like twitter? Because there's whole other worlds of stupid out there.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 07, 2015, 09:20:11 AM
Quote from: mongers on December 07, 2015, 09:17:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2015, 01:55:02 PM
As has been suggested, a generic thread for venting about the things our yet-friends and family members post on Facebook that we bear in silence so as to not to make interactions more awkward than they already are.


Syt, good implementation of a thread idea.  :D

We can widen it to other media like twitter? Because there's whole other worlds of stupid out there.  :)

Sure. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Brazen on December 07, 2015, 09:35:40 AM
Can we include corporations? IBM's #hackahairdryer campaign to attract women engineers was a recent epic fail.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/ibm-sparks-anger-with-hackahairdryer-campaign-aimed-at-women (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/ibm-sparks-anger-with-hackahairdryer-campaign-aimed-at-women)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 07, 2015, 09:45:42 AM
I think it is really to commiserate about friends and family posting stupid shit and we not being able to tell them what morons they are. You can probably feel free to just tell IBM they are morons without ruining too many relationships.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 07, 2015, 09:47:14 AM
The smugness of my brother in law re: is anticonsumerism annoys the shit out of me.

Eventually, I am going to call him out on it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 07, 2015, 10:03:44 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1385065_10153410266070019_104346438_n.jpg?oh=0d65d73b88ffdb25a31bf687304ea56b&oe=56DA28D0&__gda__=1461382792_1b515d1427e3275cf36459fdb8666090)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12321463_927127900706800_4614578302316392220_n.jpg?oh=bbad5b15f4efff8f8de507817ec5be49&oe=56ECDB3C&__gda__=1457778518_42d653c7763dfdd88f5c04895663c964)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 07, 2015, 10:16:54 AM
False Equivalency. God I hate those. Weird that they have a picture of Jefferson and not Madison.

And Hillary it seems wants to introduce birthright citizenship.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2015, 10:24:59 AM
Quote from: Brazen on December 07, 2015, 09:35:40 AM
Can we include corporations? IBM's #hackahairdryer campaign to attract women engineers was a recent epic fail.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/ibm-sparks-anger-with-hackahairdryer-campaign-aimed-at-women (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/ibm-sparks-anger-with-hackahairdryer-campaign-aimed-at-women)

So the challenge designed to attract women not in STEM into the field is not as difficult as the ones women already in the field are working on? 

That's outrageous!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2015, 10:26:15 AM
I don't get the Hillary connection either but I do agree with changing the 14th Amendment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 08, 2015, 08:37:29 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/11207319_10207813508477466_7877113846318848478_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=ba69e1517c86c4366b83c1ceaf19331c&oe=56D96013)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 08, 2015, 08:43:13 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12313832_10207100079332869_8946000125431579221_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=c405c065f158675e54c96be6a04e0579&oe=56DCAB7C)

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12278819_10207100078612851_8632644501762894831_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=4d80fb67716da58107daab2578e43610&oe=56D66016)

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/l/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12063647_10207100077972835_8865662905454943880_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=772a5b3938a12c73af8dfaa0a3a1bc1b&oe=56DD46D8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 08, 2015, 08:44:10 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12310521_10207100077732829_1115952832514470987_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=5d6a297915310fe03ede468cf86b403e&oe=56D398A8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 08, 2015, 08:51:54 PM
I'm not really a car guy, but that doesn't seem like sound advice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 08, 2015, 09:05:37 PM
The Charlie Brown and Snoopy pic is cool.


Fallout Charlie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 08, 2015, 09:14:52 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 08, 2015, 09:05:37 PM
The Charlie Brown and Snoopy pic is cool.


Fallout Charlie.

Not pictured: Charlie Brown assraping Lucy in the ruins.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 08, 2015, 09:20:43 PM
And to be serious, I've muted about 5 family members so far. 3 for liberal pussyitis, 1 for over aggressive religious and Trump pomposity and my gay cousin for posting too much gay shit. I'd like to be able eat breakfast without reading about his goddamn gay adventures.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 08, 2015, 09:44:53 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12208652_10153302501945197_939214429041723738_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=1ff88df4df6c8438cd1829b146f7cccd&oe=56D3FE46)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 08, 2015, 10:31:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 08, 2015, 08:51:54 PM
I'm not really a car guy, but that doesn't seem like sound advice.
I was in a car club, and it doesn't sound like a good advice to me either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 08, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
I've never driven in a place that gets snow every year, so no idea whether those things are good advice or not. They sound dicey though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 09, 2015, 02:58:56 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 08, 2015, 08:37:29 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/11207319_10207813508477466_7877113846318848478_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=ba69e1517c86c4366b83c1ceaf19331c&oe=56D96013)


Is there a political message here? It just looks like fanart of Charlie brown in an apocalyptic wasteland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on December 09, 2015, 06:06:20 AM
Charlie Brownout 4?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2015, 06:07:22 AM
A Boy And His Dog
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 09, 2015, 08:27:26 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 08, 2015, 10:31:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 08, 2015, 08:51:54 PM
I'm not really a car guy, but that doesn't seem like sound advice.
I was in a car club, and it doesn't sound like a good advice to me either.

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 09, 2015, 09:31:39 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.org%2Fxby78bcnb%2Fimage.jpg&hash=76c43dfb3c1f787e19cc1609436158921edebb49)

Wut?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2015, 09:42:19 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 09, 2015, 09:45:00 AM
I don't know if it is satire. I just can't tell anymore.  :cry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 09, 2015, 10:12:25 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 08, 2015, 09:44:53 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12208652_10153302501945197_939214429041723738_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=1ff88df4df6c8438cd1829b146f7cccd&oe=56D3FE46)

I hadn't thought of it like that before...I should really go out and get a fire extinguisher.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 09, 2015, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 08, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
I've never driven in a place that gets snow every year, so no idea whether those things are good advice or not. They sound dicey though.
the screw will either be forced inside the tire eventually and create a flat or it will break.
the sand paper could remove the ice, but if you use for a minute too long, it will destroy your glass.  Just use a scraper like everyone else.
loosening the screws is dumb, all it does is that your screws may break.  Just carry some WD-40 in your trunk, in case of need.
the anti freeze in break fluid is unncessary for most climates.  I don't know about Antartica, but nowhere near inhabited area is it cold enough to justify that for North American and European cars.  Well, maybe a Ferrari requires special attention.  Then again, you shouldn't drive it in winter :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 09, 2015, 02:34:10 PM
Yay my uncle not only shared support for Trump but also shared an article Laura Ingraham shared supporting a hiatus on all immigration...

Also, I'm so sad Ingraham got that cancer. She used to be a reasonable conservative with call-ins to her radio show from her gay brother. :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 09, 2015, 03:03:42 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11882953_1182492341767170_935069989955898222_o.jpg)

Translation
Be one of the biggest weapon sellers in the world.
Expel (all) refugees that flee wars

Liberté Égalité Fraternité
République Française

Motto of the French republic in the end.

There is a half-truth there about weapon sales though France did not export much to Syria or Afghanistan. However, the French sentence starting with "les réfugiés" is pretty damning means all refugees (definite article).

Nice choice of a mainstream movie depicting an independent arms seller, very relevant to the context. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 09, 2015, 03:11:44 PM
Those are the worst Duque.

'Wants to ban guns to save lives'

'Thinks Planned Parenthood should be allowed to kill babies'

Ugh

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 09, 2015, 03:37:38 PM
Specially when repeated ad nauseam such as:

QuoteJuste un petit rappel mes amis français: Qui séme les armes récolte les réfugiés.

Just a little reminder my French friends: he who sows weapons shall harvest refugees.

Then quoting an article of lepoint.fr telling that China had sold more weapons than France and Germany. Of course, France was beaten by the Chinese only because of the cancelled sale of Mistrals to Russia.

http://www.lepoint.fr/economie/exportation-d-armes-la-chine-depasse-l-allemagne-et-la-france-16-03-2015-1913024_28.php (http://www.lepoint.fr/economie/exportation-d-armes-la-chine-depasse-l-allemagne-et-la-france-16-03-2015-1913024_28.php)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 09, 2015, 03:47:49 PM
Btw, Valmy show us your worst i.e best FB offerings you were gifted with. Enough of Syt and me keeping the thread alive. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 09, 2015, 03:51:53 PM
Nearly all the JOIN THE COFFEE PARTY MOVEMENT stuff is pretty over the top.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on December 09, 2015, 04:41:48 PM
A friend of a friend, so it doesn't really count, but the best I can do:
Quote
Picture this - a presidential election cycle featuring an inexperienced blowhard of a candidate who manages to corral the widespread popular support of an angry, frustrated, but ultimately uninformed electorate through the use of fiery rhetoric, meaningless platitudes, and impossible promises.

Now, a question - am I referring to the 2008 or the 2016 election cycle?

(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12308434_931822210237661_612311039698666508_n.jpg?oh=da47db059e17b332fdbf68face3af784&oe=56DEB625)

(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/12190861_10153614802521163_3629190042011080928_n.jpg?oh=8cffcaea77c8ebc3e3d2a0c3ecf1afdc&oe=5719D97E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 09, 2015, 04:51:35 PM
I didn't know that Detroit is only 20 years old.  Color me surprised.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2015, 04:52:01 PM
Brevard County Sheriff's Office, Florida (Official)

https://www.facebook.com/BrevardCountySheriff/videos/913027038780051/?pnref=story

QuoteENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

IT'S TIME TO SAY WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID TO PROTECT OUR CITIZENS!!

The sheriff also does Wheel of Fugitive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09gzkWFxDmQ&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 09, 2015, 05:13:24 PM
Well he said it, I guess we are all safe now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 09, 2015, 05:23:12 PM
I'm sure you guys have seen or will see the FB claim that Obama says "ISIL" as a coded message to his fellow Muslims that he does not see Israel as an independent state, but as a part of the Islamic State.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on December 09, 2015, 07:06:30 PM
What's the secret message in "Tolly-ban?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on December 09, 2015, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 09, 2015, 04:52:01 PM
Brevard County Sheriff's Office, Florida (Official)

https://www.facebook.com/BrevardCountySheriff/videos/913027038780051/?pnref=story

QuoteENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

IT'S TIME TO SAY WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID TO PROTECT OUR CITIZENS!!

The sheriff also does Wheel of Fugitive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09gzkWFxDmQ&feature=youtu.be

My sheriff   :)

The Melbourne Mall shooting that he references took place about a mile from where I live.  CB and I were driving back from Sam's Club one morning and we saw all these patrol cars in the parking lot in front of the mall.  The police do their driving training in the mall parking lot so we assumed that was what was going on; and soon found out we were wrong.

Anyhow that's pretty typical of law enforcement here.  This is still small town / rural Florida.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 09, 2015, 08:57:01 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12360020_10156312129480254_1409204128611181534_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=0fa72592c4d903df26de540a5218e036&oe=56E42591)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2015, 09:02:48 PM
Too soon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 09, 2015, 09:06:44 PM
I laughed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: MadImmortalMan on December 09, 2015, 09:12:38 PM
Jesus looks like Seth Green.

Could be legit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 09, 2015, 10:00:39 PM
Oh shit :blink:


(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12313632_1183250958353223_718178168861016127_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=4f538a5282f9d0155bd5b72aef827a53&oe=56ECB141)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 09, 2015, 10:06:46 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 09, 2015, 08:57:01 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12360020_10156312129480254_1409204128611181534_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=0fa72592c4d903df26de540a5218e036&oe=56E42591)

Against cazadors, nail guns are probably the best weapon in Fallout New Vegas.  Jesus doesn't know shit about the game..
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 09, 2015, 10:16:02 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 09, 2015, 10:00:39 PM
Oh shit :blink:


(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12313632_1183250958353223_718178168861016127_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=4f538a5282f9d0155bd5b72aef827a53&oe=56ECB141)

I LAUGHED
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 09, 2015, 10:37:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 09, 2015, 10:16:02 PM
I LAUGHED

ibid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2015, 01:42:23 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on December 09, 2015, 07:37:50 PM

My sheriff   :)

The Melbourne Mall shooting that he references took place about a mile from where I live.  CB and I were driving back from Sam's Club one morning and we saw all these patrol cars in the parking lot in front of the mall.  The police do their driving training in the mall parking lot so we assumed that was what was going on; and soon found out we were wrong.

Anyhow that's pretty typical of law enforcement here.  This is still small town / rural Florida.

I'm just glad that someone with my weight can still be elected sheriff in the U.S. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on December 10, 2015, 01:50:58 AM
(https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12189037_908057882612491_694120254217441055_n.jpg?oh=afb34dc4694d3b4da942d94c7a80406d&oe=56EAFBB2)

Star Wars with a Syrian refugee photoshopped in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on December 10, 2015, 01:56:18 AM
(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/trump-eagle-03a.gif?w=560&h=315)

Rejected by the very spririt of America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2015, 10:28:40 AM
Just saw this on facebook. :hmm:

QuoteAccording to the UN, today is World Human Rights day. Yet all of our human rights are being violated by this prison-industrial-corporate-state-complex led COP 21 climate negotiations process. Negotiations over whose islands will flood? Which people will die? The seas are rising and so are we. Violence against the people is violence against the planet. Time for a Just Transition away from extractive, violence-based capitalist economies, toward a life-based, healing, and ecological solidarity economy. ‪#‎ClimateJusticeNow‬ ‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ ‪#‎IndigenousRising‬ ‪#‎JustTransition‬ ‪#‎COP21‬
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 10, 2015, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 09, 2015, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 08, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
I've never driven in a place that gets snow every year, so no idea whether those things are good advice or not. They sound dicey though.
the screw will either be forced inside the tire eventually and create a flat or it will break.
the sand paper could remove the ice, but if you use for a minute too long, it will destroy your glass.  Just use a scraper like everyone else.
loosening the screws is dumb, all it does is that your screws may break.  Just carry some WD-40 in your trunk, in case of need.
the anti freeze in break fluid is unncessary for most climates.  I don't know about Antartica, but nowhere near inhabited area is it cold enough to justify that for North American and European cars.  Well, maybe a Ferrari requires special attention.  Then again, you shouldn't drive it in winter :D

I am pretty sure you don't want to mix your break fluid with anything. All those advices are satire
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 10:41:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 10:28:40 AM
QuoteAccording to the UN, today is World Human Rights day. Yet all of our human rights are being violated by this prison-industrial-corporate-state-complex led COP 21 climate negotiations process. Negotiations over whose islands will flood? Which people will die? The seas are rising and so are we. Violence against the people is violence against the planet. Time for a Just Transition away from extractive, violence-based capitalist economies, toward a life-based, healing, and ecological solidarity economy. ‪#‎ClimateJusticeNow‬ ‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ ‪#‎IndigenousRising‬ ‪#‎JustTransition‬ ‪#‎COP21‬

We will no longer extract resources but run everything on love and joy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 10, 2015, 10:42:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 10:28:40 AM
Just saw this on facebook. :hmm:

QuoteAccording to the UN, today is World Human Rights day. Yet all of our human rights are being violated by this prison-industrial-corporate-state-complex led COP 21 climate negotiations process. Negotiations over whose islands will flood? Which people will die? The seas are rising and so are we. Violence against the people is violence against the planet. Time for a Just Transition away from extractive, violence-based capitalist economies, toward a life-based, healing, and ecological solidarity economy. ‪#‎ClimateJusticeNow‬ ‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ ‪#‎IndigenousRising‬ ‪#‎JustTransition‬ ‪#‎COP21‬

(https://i.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0064/12/1429213572181.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 10, 2015, 10:56:28 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 10:28:40 AM
Just saw this on facebook. :hmm:

QuoteAccording to the UN, today is World Human Rights day. Yet all of our human rights are being violated by this prison-industrial-corporate-state-complex led COP 21 climate negotiations process. Negotiations over whose islands will flood? Which people will die? The seas are rising and so are we. Violence against the people is violence against the planet. Time for a Just Transition away from extractive, violence-based capitalist economies, toward a life-based, healing, and ecological solidarity economy. ‪#‎ClimateJusticeNow‬ ‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ ‪#‎IndigenousRising‬ ‪#‎JustTransition‬ ‪#‎COP21‬

The #‎BlackLivesMatter remind me of the following statement I saw when homosexual marriage was legalised in the US:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIhYwW6VAAA-csj.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2015, 10:57:51 AM
He also liked his own post. Not sure what to say about that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:00:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 10, 2015, 10:56:28 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 10:28:40 AM
Just saw this on facebook. :hmm:

QuoteAccording to the UN, today is World Human Rights day. Yet all of our human rights are being violated by this prison-industrial-corporate-state-complex led COP 21 climate negotiations process. Negotiations over whose islands will flood? Which people will die? The seas are rising and so are we. Violence against the people is violence against the planet. Time for a Just Transition away from extractive, violence-based capitalist economies, toward a life-based, healing, and ecological solidarity economy. ‪#‎ClimateJusticeNow‬ ‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ ‪#‎IndigenousRising‬ ‪#‎JustTransition‬ ‪#‎COP21‬

The #‎BlackLivesMatter remind me of the following statement I saw when homosexual marriage was legalised in the US:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIhYwW6VAAA-csj.png)

It is bombastic but not something that doesn't have a worthwhile point. Course polite speech doesn't get attention.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 11:07:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:00:23 AM
It is bombastic but not something that doesn't have a worthwhile point. Course polite speech doesn't get attention.

Donald Trump is showing that. But of course it does make you sound like an insane fruitcake. So I guess it is a double-edged sword.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 10, 2015, 11:10:16 AM
I have seen indeed much worse on FB walls.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 11:07:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:00:23 AM
It is bombastic but not something that doesn't have a worthwhile point. Course polite speech doesn't get attention.

Donald Trump is showing that. But of course it does make you sound like an insane fruitcake. So I guess it is a double-edged sword.

People who want to disregard the message will always find a way to do so, unless forced not to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 11:16:58 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:10:56 AM
People who want to disregard the message will always find a way to do so, unless forced not to.

I get assaulted with so much insane radical garbage from everybody on a constant basis it would be so refreshing to see something polite and well thought at some point. Why do you think flinging shit with the rest of the goofballs means more attention that people are forced to listen to?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 10, 2015, 11:17:42 AM
I tried scrolling through my facebook feed for a while but found nothing political except for my politician friends posting news articles that supports their cause.

Quite boring really.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:21:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 11:16:58 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:10:56 AM
People who want to disregard the message will always find a way to do so, unless forced not to.

I get assaulted with so much insane radical garbage from everybody on a constant basis it would be so refreshing to see something polite and well thought at some point. Why do you think flinging shit with the rest of the goofballs means more attention that people are forced to listen to?

The increased attention given to black people in the past 2 years or so has come from black people being polite.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on December 10, 2015, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 10, 2015, 11:17:42 AM
I tried scrolling through my facebook feed for a while but found nothing political except for my politician friends posting news articles that supports their cause.

Quite boring really.

Last year I unfriended about 30% of my 'friends' on FB. I'm not following another 30% or so. I only have to log in once or twice a week to keep up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 10, 2015, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 10, 2015, 11:17:42 AM
I tried scrolling through my facebook feed for a while but found nothing political except for my politician friends posting news articles that supports their cause.

Quite boring really.

Consider yourself lucky. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 11:30:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:21:21 AM
The increased attention given to black people in the past 2 years or so has come from black people being polite.

And Donald Trump's run for the Presidency has not come from him being polite. But just getting attention is not sufficient. You also have to convince and call people to action. The protests and BLM and all that got my attention but that do not seem to have anything substantial or new to say or anything I could do to help. Then it becomes the occupy movement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 11:31:41 AM
Quote from: Maladict on December 10, 2015, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 10, 2015, 11:17:42 AM
I tried scrolling through my facebook feed for a while but found nothing political except for my politician friends posting news articles that supports their cause.

Quite boring really.

Last year I unfriended about 30% of my 'friends' on FB. I'm not following another 30% or so. I only have to log in once or twice a week to keep up.

Yeah I have been cursing my luck that I unfollowed so many of my FB nutters right before this thread started.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 10, 2015, 11:35:59 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 10, 2015, 10:40:30 AM
All those advices are satire
I don't know.  There is some very weird shit on the 'net that is supposedly serious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 10, 2015, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 10, 2015, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 10, 2015, 11:17:42 AM
I tried scrolling through my facebook feed for a while but found nothing political except for my politician friends posting news articles that supports their cause.

Quite boring really.

Consider yourself lucky. :)

It's quite amazing considering how many of my family from the older generation that was either communists or anarchists. I guess getting grandchildren will keep them occupied sharing baby pictures. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 01:25:56 PM
Ah here we go:

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/12314429_1166125320083382_3492405362349395566_o.jpg)

:bleeding: These are the worst.

Yes I get it. You love stupid false equivalency memes. And in any case the US is already bombing ISIS...and has not taken any rights away from anybody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 10, 2015, 01:36:03 PM
I knew Valmy could uphold the high standard demanded by this thread. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 10, 2015, 01:57:14 PM
Oh oh! Some guy I met in Japan posted this:

(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12299290_912737305507433_6544821843434944418_n.jpg?oh=6eb3c72134f7e764e90bc727ed2dbe2b&oe=57214193)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 10, 2015, 02:57:20 PM
I see nothing wrong with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 10, 2015, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:00:23 AM
It is bombastic but not something that doesn't have a worthwhile point. Course polite speech doesn't get attention.

Which legal rights are denied to black people in America presently?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 10, 2015, 03:57:40 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 10, 2015, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:00:23 AM
It is bombastic but not something that doesn't have a worthwhile point. Course polite speech doesn't get attention.

Which legal rights are denied to black people in America presently?

Check your privilege before you ask :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 10, 2015, 04:00:02 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 10, 2015, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:00:23 AM
It is bombastic but not something that doesn't have a worthwhile point. Course polite speech doesn't get attention.

Which legal rights are denied to black people in America presently?

Not having to suffer microtransactions on campus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 10, 2015, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 10, 2015, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2015, 11:00:23 AM
It is bombastic but not something that doesn't have a worthwhile point. Course polite speech doesn't get attention.

Which legal rights are denied to black people in America presently?

The right not to be shot by the police in disproportionate numbers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 04:29:21 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 10, 2015, 04:00:45 PM
The right not to be shot by the police in disproportionate numbers.

There is a certain percentage a demographic is supposed to be gunned down by the police and we need to work to either gun more people down from the other demographics or reduce their gunning down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 10, 2015, 04:35:06 PM
I can see this thread being a perennial favourite on Languish, up until so arsehole looks up Languishites on facebook and directs their family or friends towards this thread.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2015, 05:48:15 PM
My sister's comment on this article: http://www.fox13news.com/news/56870459-story

QuoteWhy is the government "helping" illegal immigrants and refugees if it doesn't have the money to take care of the veterans that they send in harms way?

The old, "We can only help other people when everyone of our own people has been helped first."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 10, 2015, 06:42:30 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 10, 2015, 05:48:15 PM
My sister's comment on this article: http://www.fox13news.com/news/56870459-story

QuoteWhy is the government "helping" illegal immigrants and refugees if it doesn't have the money to take care of the veterans that they send in harms way?

The old, "We can only help other people when everyone of our own people has been helped first."

The answer to that is "good point. Let's raise taxes to take better care of veterans."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 09:10:34 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 10, 2015, 05:48:15 PM
My sister's comment on this article: http://www.fox13news.com/news/56870459-story

QuoteWhy is the government "helping" illegal immigrants and refugees if it doesn't have the money to take care of the veterans that they send in harms way?

The old, "We can only help other people when everyone of our own people has been helped first."

Yeah this is the reason we should not take refugees I hear all the time as well. We have been taking in refugees and not caring for veterans for centuries but NOW this is an outrage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 10, 2015, 09:42:13 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/11226000_1661248707473055_678206823410050395_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=0f77c46161f83ed06ca254e425eba22d&oe=572250F4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 10, 2015, 09:58:45 PM
Perhaps I'm all three.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 10, 2015, 09:58:45 PM
Perhaps I'm all three.  :ph34r:

I was about to say. It doesn't have to be either-or people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 11, 2015, 12:33:02 AM
I am so tired of seeing

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12342474_10153603123272702_2129663318380273225_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=2b490b22d75d4e5c676852a1cbbaa963&oe=56DBC72B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 11, 2015, 01:05:51 AM
Well we would have tens of millions of cannon fodder to send against ISIS then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 11, 2015, 01:32:06 AM
I'm not sure what use the disabled would be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 11, 2015, 01:41:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 11, 2015, 01:32:06 AM
I'm not sure what use the disabled would be.

This is a bit harsh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 11, 2015, 01:57:46 AM
I almost fell out of my chair when I saw that my previously Trump-loving sister and her husband shared something from Bernie Sanders:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12366412_10154395155852908_6133111820562998340_n.png?oh=74a6889fc5c2c149e9b6c1f6f7af1db1&oe=56D7398C&__gda__=1461397491_28aa0013768ee063e51ce3bf1225173b)

Fortunately, this was immediately followed by:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12316648_855847647846292_1533031236183319785_n.jpg?oh=c184c26ecfa583bbc233b2c3cf762b22&oe=5719FBF0&__gda__=1457755001_2fe73764de4b1b4b1f203188f8c411b4)

So all's well in the redneck swamps of Florida. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 11, 2015, 02:01:26 AM
So, based on the last meme, is she going back to Germany and invade Poland?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 11, 2015, 02:03:01 AM
Oh, they're all three proud to be from Germany, but they would never go back.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on December 11, 2015, 02:29:20 AM
Yeah, I was going to say: maybe she's becoming interested in a sort of nationalist socialism... :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Archy on December 11, 2015, 03:57:51 AM
On the feed of my West Flemish niece
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 11, 2015, 07:16:40 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12047060_10153075899682312_5117062758154291164_n.jpg?oh=6afb8d5a5440480112e6774c82ef8487&oe=56DADE2C)

ISIS = CIA

ISIS a.k.a as Daesh :)

On a tout compris = We got it

Classic argument from authority/ad verecundiam.

Best comment ever: missing an i e between K and E and you've got almost the whole picture.

Il manque un I entre le K et le E, et le tableau est (presque) complet!

Yes, Kiev. Islamo-nazi ukrainians I guess.

Context: an ad in the metro for some lame comedians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on December 11, 2015, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 08, 2015, 09:44:53 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12208652_10153302501945197_939214429041723738_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=1ff88df4df6c8438cd1829b146f7cccd&oe=56D3FE46)

Alright, Marty.  Replace "fire extinguisher" with "flamethrower," then we'll talk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 11, 2015, 08:48:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 11, 2015, 01:57:46 AM


(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12316648_855847647846292_1533031236183319785_n.jpg?oh=c184c26ecfa583bbc233b2c3cf762b22&oe=5719FBF0&__gda__=1457755001_2fe73764de4b1b4b1f203188f8c411b4)

So all's well in the redneck swamps of Florida. :)

That eagle pic should be combined with this:

http://imgur.com/gallery/Ulb2XkA

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 11, 2015, 08:53:04 AM
The person with the craziest opinion/ post on my facebook is...American Scipio.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 11, 2015, 01:35:45 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t1.0-9/10641074_857776317568571_888564851911406473_n.jpg?oh=7ee108b703f90d9b811fddf88e3fce1f&oe=571EA713&__gda__=1456800762_2ad577f22f76551f333ccaf5daa7c706)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12108920_1655373078074840_2660942334401637414_n.jpg?oh=3c92ffb2943a15a4e38af8b36aaf9334&oe=571FE1B3&__gda__=1461692603_b2db888e12d889f30a0128bba1062d50)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 11, 2015, 01:38:40 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 11, 2015, 01:35:45 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t1.0-9/10641074_857776317568571_888564851911406473_n.jpg?oh=7ee108b703f90d9b811fddf88e3fce1f&oe=571EA713&__gda__=1456800762_2ad577f22f76551f333ccaf5daa7c706)

That was one hell of a seance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 11, 2015, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2015, 01:38:40 PM
....

That was one hell of a seance.

Nearly as weird as people actually sitting around and dreaming that shit up; I guess someone as to otherwise the political debate might take a detour into mature or reasoned territory. :gasp:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 11, 2015, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 11, 2015, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2015, 01:38:40 PM
....

That was one hell of a seance.

Nearly as weird as people actually sitting around and dreaming that shit up; I guess someone as to otherwise the political debate might take a detour into mature or reasoned territory. :gasp:

This is an election that currently has Donald Trump as a leading candidate. Chances of such a detour are minimal.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 11, 2015, 09:49:50 PM
For Seedy


(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12348165_10205704922483900_4557061942607128199_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=76f067ce271b2d629d1385cdd1adef6a&oe=571F5514)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 11, 2015, 10:08:06 PM
The one on the right is way cuter though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 11, 2015, 10:46:34 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12342496_10204010872230950_5534264786458296065_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=a6cabed968c818437ac55c951cb19b34&oe=571DBFED)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 01:22:02 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 11, 2015, 09:49:50 PM
For Seedy


(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12348165_10205704922483900_4557061942607128199_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=76f067ce271b2d629d1385cdd1adef6a&oe=571F5514)

The thing about memes is that whenever there is a glaring grammatical error in them, it detracts from the message.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 12, 2015, 01:28:04 AM
I get the feeling that my cat understands most of what I say, it just doesn't care.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 01:28:43 AM
Bad analogy meme:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/12239250_1104985606200424_4575548871341844343_o.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 01:29:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 12, 2015, 01:28:04 AM
I get the feeling that my cat understands most of what I say, it just doesn't care.

Yeah the dog acts on what you say because it wants to please you. The cat is like WHADEVA.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 12, 2015, 02:19:55 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 01:28:43 AM
Bad analogy meme:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/12239250_1104985606200424_4575548871341844343_o.png)

It's all a form of bullying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 02:31:20 AM
Being able to attack someone's views and beliefs is not bullying - it is a cornerstone of democracy.  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 02:36:30 AM
Incidentally, can we please stop with using the word "bullying" to describe interactions between adults? If you are an adult and you are troubled or hurt by "bullying", then you deserve to be subsumed into the biomass, so that your atoms can be put to a better use.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2015, 03:02:05 AM
OK, Neil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 12, 2015, 03:08:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 01:22:02 AM
The thing about memes is that whenever there is a glaring grammatical error in them, it detracts from the message.

Maybe the cat is Russian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 12, 2015, 03:16:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 02:36:30 AM
Incidentally, can we please stop with using the word "bullying" to describe interactions between adults? If you are an adult and you are troubled or hurt by "bullying", then you deserve to be subsumed into the biomass, so that your atoms can be put to a better use.
Nah I don't think someone from Poland should dictate my word choice in English.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 12, 2015, 03:44:53 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 02:31:20 AM
Being able to attack someone's views and beliefs is not bullying - it is a cornerstone of democracy.  :huh:

And harassing someone over their identity is a form of bullying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 12, 2015, 03:52:12 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 02:36:30 AM
Incidentally, can we please stop with using the word "bullying" to describe interactions between adults? If you are an adult and you are troubled or hurt by "bullying", then you deserve to be subsumed into the biomass, so that your atoms can be put to a better use.

Ah no.  Simply because you like to engage in an activity doesn't stop it from being childish and cruel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2015, 04:03:10 AM
Thankfully I don't think I've ever had my opinions challenged. If I ever did I would cry like a little crybaby.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 12, 2015, 04:12:36 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 12, 2015, 04:03:10 AM
Thankfully I don't think I've ever had my opinions challenged. If I ever did I would cry like a little crybaby.
That is generally what you so when I take you to task.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 12, 2015, 05:12:03 AM
You really ought to be nicer to poor Brain.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2015, 08:08:55 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 12, 2015, 05:12:03 AM
You really ought to be nicer to poor Brain.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2015, 09:35:19 AM
Putin fanboyism special, from a leftie

(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12246761_1727610247473135_4149253569291518201_n.jpg?oh=a71b3154aa115580776e5ebf38f8b48d&oe=56D9F247)

Sharing propaganda from Assad's regime. : :lol:
There's a half (quarter?) truth there though.

It started this way

(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12122842_10153771163993690_7403484250399885881_n.jpg?oh=5d98d22427cbe49df8158db478b216ed&oe=56ECE130)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 12, 2015, 09:38:07 AM
I find it telling that people most opposed to "bullying" (Raz, garbon) are the ones who are mentally ill. But worry not, 5 more years like this, and "sanism" or "mentalism" will be considered a form of prejudice, too. After all, only because your brain is so chemically imbalanced, you cannot function without taking medication, does not mean your views or opinions are any less valid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2015, 09:38:56 AM
Dude, are you insane?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 12, 2015, 09:47:42 AM
I'm the most opposed? At any rate, glad to see Marti is so well versed on mental illness. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2015, 10:03:53 AM
I thought unbanning Mart was a mistake, and every day he posts I'm confirmed in that belief. He has little to add to the forum except bile, ignorance, arrogance, egotism, and lack of empathy well beyond other posters' "achievements".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 12, 2015, 10:17:50 AM
He is a special snowflake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2015, 11:03:12 AM
My niece's husband:

Quote11 YR OLD SHOOTS ILLEGALS thanks FOX NEWS for reporting it. BUTTE , MONTANA Shotgun preteen vs. Illegal alien Home Invaders...Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11-year-old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home. It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay-shooting champion since she was nine.Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12-gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun. Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee-crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the ...street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive. It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45-caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David 0'Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news........? An 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants.......and she wins. She is still alive. Now THAT is Gun Control!Thought for the day.... Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist.'I like this kind of e-mail! American citizens defending themselves and their homes. BEING A TRUE AMERICAN, I THINK YOU'LL PASS THIS ON!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2015, 11:10:44 AM
And two more from him:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t31.0-8/12339645_10153045284491157_4810732361580047164_o.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12345395_456312781223505_2725430589180221937_n.jpg?oh=115e9eca505568ffd031e4c8e03ac47c&oe=56E17382&__gda__=1461503997_cdd2e643c11881b636b6e36bc7c29c07)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on December 12, 2015, 11:12:12 AM
Why is it that every single illegal wants to kill the white folks?  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2015, 12:11:27 PM
I don't think levitating mosques is the answer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2015, 12:17:58 PM
But a levitating Al-Quran is?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on December 12, 2015, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: PDH on December 12, 2015, 11:12:12 AM
Why is it that every single illegal wants to kill the white folks?  :(

QuoteI'm gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whities I see,
I'm gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whities I see.
When I kill all the whities I see, then whitey he won't bother me,
I'm gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whities I see.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2015, 12:20:05 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2015, 12:17:58 PM
But a levitating Al-Quran is?  :hmm:

It could be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 12, 2015, 12:44:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2015, 11:03:12 AM
My niece's husband:

Quote11 YR OLD SHOOTS ILLEGALS thanks FOX NEWS for reporting it. BUTTE , MONTANA Shotgun preteen vs. Illegal alien Home Invaders...Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11-year-old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home. It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay-shooting champion since she was nine.Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12-gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun. Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee-crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the ...street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive. It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45-caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David 0'Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news........? An 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants.......and she wins. She is still alive. Now THAT is Gun Control!Thought for the day.... Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist.'I like this kind of e-mail! American citizens defending themselves and their homes. BEING A TRUE AMERICAN, I THINK YOU'LL PASS THIS ON!

Is that even a real story?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2015, 12:46:59 PM
Of course not. A quick Google search says that it's been around for at least 8 years, probably longer. He has plenty anti-Islam/pro gun self-defense stuff on his wall.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on December 12, 2015, 12:57:25 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 12, 2015, 12:44:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2015, 11:03:12 AM
My niece's husband:

Quote11 YR OLD SHOOTS ILLEGALS thanks FOX NEWS for reporting it. BUTTE , MONTANA Shotgun preteen vs. Illegal alien Home Invaders...Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11-year-old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home. It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay-shooting champion since she was nine.Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12-gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun. Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee-crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the ...street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive. It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45-caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David 0'Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news........? An 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants.......and she wins. She is still alive. Now THAT is Gun Control!Thought for the day.... Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist.'I like this kind of e-mail! American citizens defending themselves and their homes. BEING A TRUE AMERICAN, I THINK YOU'LL PASS THIS ON!

Is that even a real story?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/homeinvasion.asp
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2015, 01:06:17 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 12, 2015, 12:20:05 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2015, 12:17:58 PM
But a levitating Al-Quran is?  :hmm:

It could be.

If you say so, I will take your word for it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 12, 2015, 08:32:57 PM
Did the confederate guy really lick windows?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 12, 2015, 09:59:45 PM
The weirdest thing was the Confederate flag was never even banned. There have been calls to remove it as symbols of state governments. That's it. I think Walmart stopped selling it for minute.

But somehow they are determined that is was banned.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 12, 2015, 10:55:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 12, 2015, 09:59:45 PM
The weirdest thing was the Confederate flag was never even banned. There have been calls to remove it as symbols of state governments. That's it. I think Walmart stopped selling it for minute.

But somehow they are determined that is was banned.

What do facts and logic have to do with the "like and share" crowd?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 13, 2015, 12:13:30 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2015, 10:55:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 12, 2015, 09:59:45 PM
The weirdest thing was the Confederate flag was never even banned. There have been calls to remove it as symbols of state governments. That's it. I think Walmart stopped selling it for minute.

But somehow they are determined that is was banned.

What do facts and logic have to do with the "like and share" crowd?

I'm more concerned with this apparent "lick and share" crowd.  That's just not sanitary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 13, 2015, 03:05:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2015, 10:03:53 AM
I thought unbanning Mart was a mistake, and every day he posts I'm confirmed in that belief. He has little to add to the forum except bile, ignorance, arrogance, egotism, and lack of empathy well beyond other posters' "achievements".

Meh, he's a silly fool.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 13, 2015, 03:06:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 13, 2015, 12:13:30 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2015, 10:55:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 12, 2015, 09:59:45 PM
The weirdest thing was the Confederate flag was never even banned. There have been calls to remove it as symbols of state governments. That's it. I think Walmart stopped selling it for minute.

But somehow they are determined that is was banned.

What do facts and logic have to do with the "like and share" crowd?

I'm more concerned with this apparent "lick and share" crowd.  That's just not sanitary.

Isn't that how one sends a letter? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 13, 2015, 08:32:15 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/t31.0-8/12363167_10207693231270873_2117147382596375052_o.jpg)

Anti-FN humour at its finest! :)

To avoid excessive queueing in polling places on Sunday, FN voters are to vote Monday.
Thanks for telling them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2015, 09:02:39 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10408593_998024573577327_2077098125651305620_n.jpg?oh=5cf6b363d489ad3474295c78d9f35e32&oe=56E51E2E&__gda__=1458076484_b4c677792f9da0155335b388c0e2d6b0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2015, 11:53:38 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12243035_1173818489299673_4393898934337311309_n.jpg?oh=7dfc6c8b0247c691b8959fef5ab0b77c&oe=56DA86CC&__gda__=1461780273_290ed3b6da9e5124492440c33691197b)

It wouldn't be so bad if this wasn't stuff that could be debunked by 5 seconds of googling this shit. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/photos/ovaloffice.asp
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 13, 2015, 11:57:07 AM
Eather? Comic Sans?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 13, 2015, 02:42:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 13, 2015, 11:53:38 AM


It wouldn't be so bad if this wasn't stuff that could be debunked by 5 seconds of googling this shit. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/photos/ovaloffice.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/photos/ovaloffice.asp)

Well, by their own admission they don't know how to share documents, you really can't expect much from them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 13, 2015, 03:16:29 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/10857964_833023136741488_7600895376697493181_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=bda7b81f96b0ce324ac2476ca63ce951&oe=56E679AB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 13, 2015, 03:33:35 PM
Sounds like a hoax.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 13, 2015, 03:38:41 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 13, 2015, 03:33:35 PM
Sounds like a hoax.
It is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 13, 2015, 03:42:18 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 13, 2015, 03:38:41 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 13, 2015, 03:33:35 PM
Sounds like a hoax.
It is.

High school kids everywhere ... stop celebrating.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 13, 2015, 04:31:43 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 13, 2015, 03:16:29 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/10857964_833023136741488_7600895376697493181_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=bda7b81f96b0ce324ac2476ca63ce951&oe=56E679AB)

This was funnier when it came out ten years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 13, 2015, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 13, 2015, 04:31:43 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 13, 2015, 03:16:29 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/10857964_833023136741488_7600895376697493181_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=bda7b81f96b0ce324ac2476ca63ce951&oe=56E679AB)

This was funnier when it came out ten years ago was chiseled on a Roman wall in the Forum.

FYP
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 13, 2015, 05:00:44 PM
Not having facebook or access to much other social media, I wonder if I could get away with just cross posting some of my usual Languish posts in this thread?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2015, 10:03:53 AM
I thought unbanning Mart was a mistake, and every day he posts I'm confirmed in that belief. He has little to add to the forum except bile, ignorance, arrogance, egotism, and lack of empathy well beyond other posters' "achievements".

So, how's your book coming along? A few more NaNoWriMos and you should be set.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 13, 2015, 05:20:45 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2015, 10:03:53 AM
I thought unbanning Mart was a mistake, and every day he posts I'm confirmed in that belief. He has little to add to the forum except bile, ignorance, arrogance, egotism, and lack of empathy well beyond other posters' "achievements".

So, how's your book coming along? A few more NaNoWriMos and you should be set.

You've hit tired, old hag stage. Your bite is like gumming. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 13, 2015, 05:21:44 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2015, 10:03:53 AM
I thought unbanning Mart was a mistake, and every day he posts I'm confirmed in that belief. He has little to add to the forum except bile, ignorance, arrogance, egotism, and lack of empathy well beyond other posters' "achievements".

So, how's your book coming along? A few more NaNoWriMos and you should be set.

C-, Martinus is easily distracted in class, he really must ignore the playground distractions and instead concentrate on the work at hand.
This submission lacked originality and recycles themes I've read many times before in his assignments. If Martinus is to pass this class and go onto study invective at at higher academic level, he needs to broaden the range of his source material and have a graduated ranges of responses available to use at the appropriate level in class discussions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:24:59 PM
I only had a few seconds to come up with that...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:27:17 PM
Besides I am really interested about his book. Few years ago it seemed like it was the highlight of Syt's life. I hope he did not abandon it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 13, 2015, 05:47:02 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 13, 2015, 05:49:15 PM
Mongers is a tough grader, that's some B+ quality trolling there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 13, 2015, 06:00:14 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:24:59 PM
I only had a few seconds to come up with that...

There is really something wrong with you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 13, 2015, 06:05:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 13, 2015, 06:00:14 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:24:59 PM
I only had a few seconds to come up with that...

There is really something wrong with you.

Dog ate homework?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 13, 2015, 07:32:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 13, 2015, 03:06:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 13, 2015, 12:13:30 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2015, 10:55:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 12, 2015, 09:59:45 PM
The weirdest thing was the Confederate flag was never even banned. There have been calls to remove it as symbols of state governments. That's it. I think Walmart stopped selling it for minute.

But somehow they are determined that is was banned.

What do facts and logic have to do with the "like and share" crowd?

I'm more concerned with this apparent "lick and share" crowd.  That's just not sanitary.

Isn't that how one sends a letter? :unsure:

Who does that anymore?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 13, 2015, 07:53:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 13, 2015, 05:20:45 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2015, 10:03:53 AM
I thought unbanning Mart was a mistake, and every day he posts I'm confirmed in that belief. He has little to add to the forum except bile, ignorance, arrogance, egotism, and lack of empathy well beyond other posters' "achievements".

So, how's your book coming along? A few more NaNoWriMos and you should be set.

You've hit tired, old hag stage. Your bite is like gumming. :(

A bit like Gollum fondling an old rotten potato. MAH PRECIOUS.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 14, 2015, 01:30:45 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2015, 10:03:53 AM
I thought unbanning Mart was a mistake, and every day he posts I'm confirmed in that belief. He has little to add to the forum except bile, ignorance, arrogance, egotism, and lack of empathy well beyond other posters' "achievements".

So, how's your book coming along? A few more NaNoWriMos and you should be set.

Writing hasn't been on my to do list for, oh, some time now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on December 14, 2015, 03:08:53 AM
Quote from: mongers on December 13, 2015, 05:00:44 PM
Not having facebook or access to much other social media, I wonder if I could get away with just cross posting some of my usual Languish posts in this thread?  :hmm:

No, you may not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 14, 2015, 03:22:43 AM
You may, however, make up facebook posts to add to this thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 14, 2015, 04:00:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:24:59 PM
I only had a few seconds to come up with that...

There was a rush to make a retort? Pretty sure it had been quite some time since Syt''s comment. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on December 14, 2015, 04:13:43 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 14, 2015, 04:00:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:24:59 PM
I only had a few seconds to come up with that...

There was a rush to make a retort? Pretty sure it had been quite some time since Syt''s comment. :huh:

He had to say something while his feelings were still hurt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 14, 2015, 04:59:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 14, 2015, 04:00:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:24:59 PM
I only had a few seconds to come up with that...

There was a rush to make a retort? Pretty sure it had been quite some time since Syt''s comment. :huh:

I was in a rush to do something else but could not leave the comment unanswered once I saw it, as it would bug me otherwise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 14, 2015, 06:28:20 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12342439_10207967582569701_7033075705631089078_n.jpg?oh=3d7333dd2a0641137dd188a9c422bf42&oe=57219409)

Back to topic. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 14, 2015, 06:54:49 AM
Not a meme, but my Facebook is flooded with a youtube clip of Will Smith and Muhamma Ali saying that Islam is not evil. I am not sure if a scientologist and a brain dead boxer are really convincing on this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 14, 2015, 07:20:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 14, 2015, 04:59:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 14, 2015, 04:00:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 13, 2015, 05:24:59 PM
I only had a few seconds to come up with that...

There was a rush to make a retort? Pretty sure it had been quite some time since Syt''s comment. :huh:

I was in a rush to do something else but could not leave the comment unanswered once I saw it, as it would bug me otherwise.

The thing to remember, when you have dug yourself into a hole like this, is that you really need to STOP DIGGING.  Arguing that you posted like an obnoxious asshole because you were pressed for time and too obsessive-compulsive to let it go does not advance your cause.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:17:15 AM
Martinus has one of the highest incomes on this forum.  His presence has helped lift our GDP and per capita GDP immensely  :bowler:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 14, 2015, 09:39:01 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:17:15 AM
Martinus has one of the highest incomes on this forum.  His presence has helped lift our GDP and per capita GDP immensely  :bowler:

Bit of a drag on the collective IQ, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 14, 2015, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:17:15 AM
Martinus has one of the highest incomes on this forum.  His presence has helped lift our GDP and per capita GDP immensely  :bowler:

Are you suggesting we start paying taxes to make that relevant in any way?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 14, 2015, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 14, 2015, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:17:15 AM
Martinus has one of the highest incomes on this forum.  His presence has helped lift our GDP and per capita GDP immensely  :bowler:

Are you suggesting we start paying taxes to make that relevant in any way?

Nah, he's just subservient like that.  If I won the lottery tomorrow I'd be the greatest person on the board according to Mono.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 14, 2015, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 14, 2015, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:17:15 AM
Martinus has one of the highest incomes on this forum.  His presence has helped lift our GDP and per capita GDP immensely  :bowler:

Are you suggesting we start paying taxes to make that relevant in any way?

Nah, he's just subservient like that.  If I won the lottery tomorrow I'd be the greatest person on the board according to Mono.

Only if you give me, say, a quarter of your winnings :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 14, 2015, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 14, 2015, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 14, 2015, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:17:15 AM
Martinus has one of the highest incomes on this forum.  His presence has helped lift our GDP and per capita GDP immensely  :bowler:

Are you suggesting we start paying taxes to make that relevant in any way?

Nah, he's just subservient like that.  If I won the lottery tomorrow I'd be the greatest person on the board according to Mono.

Only if you give me, say, a quarter of your winnings :contract:

That is a poor investment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 14, 2015, 08:42:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 14, 2015, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 14, 2015, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 14, 2015, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:17:15 AM
Martinus has one of the highest incomes on this forum.  His presence has helped lift our GDP and per capita GDP immensely  :bowler:

Are you suggesting we start paying taxes to make that relevant in any way?

Nah, he's just subservient like that.  If I won the lottery tomorrow I'd be the greatest person on the board according to Mono.

Only if you give me, say, a quarter of your winnings :contract:

That is a poor investment.

I could buy a whole cargo container of Chinese people for 50k.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 14, 2015, 08:43:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 14, 2015, 08:42:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 14, 2015, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 14, 2015, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 14, 2015, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 14, 2015, 08:17:15 AM
Martinus has one of the highest incomes on this forum.  His presence has helped lift our GDP and per capita GDP immensely  :bowler:

Are you suggesting we start paying taxes to make that relevant in any way?

Nah, he's just subservient like that.  If I won the lottery tomorrow I'd be the greatest person on the board according to Mono.

Only if you give me, say, a quarter of your winnings :contract:

That is a poor investment.

I could buy a whole cargo container of Chinese people for 50k.

I can get 16 year old Vietnamese girls cheaper.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 14, 2015, 08:46:05 PM
Yeah, especially if you show up with CdM.  They give discount for returning customers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 14, 2015, 08:47:33 PM
He would sample too much of the merchandise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on December 14, 2015, 10:15:25 PM
Get back on topic please.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 14, 2015, 10:23:13 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnymemes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2FCat-memes-talk-to-your-cat-about-hitler.jpg&hash=2d830c25f674cfe0a6ee250153fc9cd5acd8540d)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 15, 2015, 07:43:31 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDjwxxKd.jpg&hash=bc53d479a32c6795768b8ef91eb94ec77461496f)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 16, 2015, 05:02:49 AM
I saw that posted on Twitter, I like it. Ukrainians know good drama.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 16, 2015, 06:23:49 AM
This thread makes me sad
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 16, 2015, 06:25:06 AM
Why?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 16, 2015, 06:33:58 AM
So much stupid
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 16, 2015, 06:57:30 AM
Quote from: Tyr on December 16, 2015, 06:33:58 AM
So much stupid

Stupid people need friends and family too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on December 16, 2015, 08:39:13 AM
If mum found Facebook, it'd be a mess. I've only recently managed to teach her how to open an email and use public TV streaming.

And I have myself to blame, as I was the one who gave her a pad for Christmas.

How she managed to turn the language settings to Swedish and download a shit ton of apps in Swedish, is beyond me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:24:39 AM
Norwegian, Swedish.... What is the difference?

Bork bork bork.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 16, 2015, 09:28:40 AM
Quote from: Norgy on December 16, 2015, 08:39:13 AM
How she managed to turn the language settings to Swedish and download a shit ton of apps in Swedish, is beyond me.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on December 16, 2015, 09:33:07 AM
My mum - Where even Apple products seem hard to understand.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:40:25 AM
I get tech support calls from my dad. So I have to drive 20 minutes one way every time something fucks up to fix it.

Facebook not working? House call.
Ask.com toolbar showing up? House call.
Internet acting weird? House call.
Blue screen of death? House call.

The record is 4 trips in one day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 16, 2015, 09:43:07 AM
My parents got their first computer in the 70s. My Dad is really good with them but somehow my mom, despite using computers constantly for over 40 years, is still shockingly incompetent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 16, 2015, 09:45:54 AM
My Mom refuses to operate computers. She will program her VCR, will learn how to run her cable box and microwave, can handle a power drill, and can do electrode welding. But computers? Too complicated!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:47:03 AM
What is a VCR?  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on December 16, 2015, 09:53:42 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:40:25 AM
I get tech support calls from my dad. So I have to drive 20 minutes one way every time something fucks up to fix it.

Facebook not working? House call.
Ask.com toolbar showing up? House call.
Internet acting weird? House call.
Blue screen of death? House call.

The record is 4 trips in one day.

Java was a constant with the older online banking systems here. So my almost blind stepdad downloaded new versions like he should. And installed Ask.com toolbars too.
If it hadn't been such a nuisance in the past, I'd almost miss Ask toolbars now.
With his free Win 10 upgrade, my stepdad was lost. "WHERE'S MY EMAIL??". Try pressing the icon for email. NO IT IS NOT EMAIL MY EMAIL IS ON THE INTERNET.
I really, really had sympathy and love for those poor people who work helpdesks.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 16, 2015, 10:50:56 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:40:25 AM
I get tech support calls from my dad. So I have to drive 20 minutes one way every time something fucks up to fix it.

Facebook not working? House call.
Ask.com toolbar showing up? House call.
Internet acting weird? House call.
Blue screen of death? House call.

The record is 4 trips in one day.

It's nice that you're spending so much quality time together :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on December 16, 2015, 12:26:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:40:25 AM
I get tech support calls from my dad. So I have to drive 20 minutes one way every time something fucks up to fix it.

Facebook not working? House call.
Ask.com toolbar showing up? House call.
Internet acting weird? House call.
Blue screen of death? House call.

The record is 4 trips in one day.
I get to do that over phone, spent 5 hours once trying to go through steps explaining how to operate a laptop. :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on December 16, 2015, 12:55:48 PM
Just for the shits and giggles, I am considering giving mum EU IV for Christmas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 16, 2015, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: Norgy on December 16, 2015, 12:55:48 PM
Just for the shits and giggles, I am considering giving mum EU IV for Christmas.

Some fringe US pro-lifers will be happy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on December 16, 2015, 01:32:20 PM
The what now, mongers?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 16, 2015, 01:34:30 PM
Quote from: Norgy on December 16, 2015, 01:32:20 PM
The what now, mongers?

I read it as socialist European fertility treatment.  :D


edit:
Maybe a largely British thing, but over here it's invariable referred to as IV (Eye-V), so that's what I first 'thought', despite it paradoxically being Languish.   :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 16, 2015, 03:33:06 PM
I don't get phone calls, but often when my dad comes by he'll have his MacBook in tow and will want me to help him fix something on it.  It's his "business" MacBook - he does some freelance newspaper design and layout work on it.

1: My dad has been using Macs for publishing ever since the damn things came out.  How can, after 30 years, he not know how to do some of this stuff?

2: He doesn't ask me "how do I get my email" instead it's "I'm having some licensing issues with my copy of Adobe Illustrator".  What the fuck do I know about Adobe Illustrator?

So sometimes I get him helped out, sometimes I don't.  But I'm always :unsure: why he even asks me...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 16, 2015, 06:07:19 PM
Obviously he just wants to spent some time with his son, haven't TV taught you this?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 16, 2015, 10:50:56 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:40:25 AM
I get tech support calls from my dad. So I have to drive 20 minutes one way every time something fucks up to fix it.

Facebook not working? House call.
Ask.com toolbar showing up? House call.
Internet acting weird? House call.
Blue screen of death? House call.

The record is 4 trips in one day.

It's nice that you're spending so much quality time together :hug:

By quality time, you mean profanity laced tirades aimed at Microshit for their shitty operating system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on December 16, 2015, 08:21:03 PM
My mother used to do that with me, but in a really odd way. I minored in psychology during my university years. Every time someone in the family did something she couldn't figure out, she'd call me for a psychoanalysis, despite how many times I told her it was a minor, I mostly studied just the history of psychology and I wasn't a therapist. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 16, 2015, 09:04:21 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12346458_1050392448314181_7538607850814023858_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=fdd7805a5e4309acb4157cf6c54d23c1&oe=5721A703)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:24:30 PM
Oh god. My dad is on the phone right now reading facebook posts to me.

:cry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 16, 2015, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:24:30 PM
Oh god. My dad is on the phone right now reading facebook posts to me.

:cry:

Do your duty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:34:40 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 16, 2015, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 16, 2015, 09:24:30 PM
Oh god. My dad is on the phone right now reading facebook posts to me.

:cry:

Do your duty.

JAHWOL
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 17, 2015, 03:21:25 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/12341066_954603937950731_4974910727298003293_n.jpg?oh=f8ad7b8a2fa2ec0ac15e4bf14ef2e114&oe=571064CD&__gda__=1461191119_d9e5d6ad689d9f4936d2ef04327b47f1)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10338276_955072834570508_8626973059637384404_n.jpg?oh=9678bae2eed41d41a95c2d3936499a96&oe=570F0FFE&__gda__=1457306312_d4c21adadef7baf261a36b679480a21c)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2015, 03:45:32 AM
I've met Randy Weaver at gun shows. Twice.

I didn't buy his book either time.

That garbage is par for the course, but most of the people who go are making fun of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 19, 2015, 01:39:21 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12376732_765020630308913_5562084713065483704_n.jpg?oh=28186a9bdf8a409444c827f56e4781fe&oe=56DE8422&__gda__=1461508445_bf5ff8e78dca27c70513692ed9e0863c)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11391425_1097662366914863_5917112031798496619_n.jpg?oh=dca8014924edc4fcf5883493ffd24f84&oe=56D87013&__gda__=1461356332_715918daf3d714b837a26c443e860052)

The last picture being a photoshop (used to read "every time he leaves the house."), but my sister and her friends took it seriously.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 19, 2015, 01:42:21 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12392037_1038135512914544_3505171483393116346_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=dc217a67669007de8d1e55cabbadc9a7&oe=57134574)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 20, 2015, 01:37:31 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xla1/v/t1.0-9/12341534_10205840402834115_9115738240236707796_n.jpg?oh=5c51220e03a66ac83f4833d5122f113e&oe=5720129D&__gda__=1460870987_a8f59850ed97f8b53ac1305a9d14356d)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 20, 2015, 01:58:31 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 20, 2015, 11:14:53 AM
$900 Billion??

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12241492_466929936825334_2278491887863663007_n.jpg?oh=d65c862c3a7f7fa1747f336b1e368f37&oe=56D7C4B4&__gda__=1461577534_c7abdac3a11f2670b0a42753ef97846e)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 20, 2015, 11:18:35 AM
;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on December 20, 2015, 01:42:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2015, 09:43:07 AM
My parents got their first computer in the 70s. My Dad is really good with them but somehow my mom, despite using computers constantly for over 40 years, is still shockingly incompetent.

Dad is an electrical engineer. Worked with NCR mainframes back in the day. Has had a computer ever since he bought our first in the late 80s.

He has yet to figure out how to install shit in another partition than C:.   :huh::hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 20, 2015, 05:29:34 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 20, 2015, 11:14:53 AM
$900 Billion??

More like $900 bazillion, amirite?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 20, 2015, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on December 20, 2015, 01:42:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2015, 09:43:07 AM
My parents got their first computer in the 70s. My Dad is really good with them but somehow my mom, despite using computers constantly for over 40 years, is still shockingly incompetent.

Dad is an electrical engineer. Worked with NCR mainframes back in the day. Has had a computer ever since he bought our first in the late 80s.

He has yet to figure out how to install shit in another partition than C:.   :huh: :hmm:

My dad was a computer programmer since the early 1980's.  Still clueless with PCs.  He always had this arrogant attitude that PCs would never replace mainframes with dumb terminals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on December 20, 2015, 08:49:21 PM
Quote
My dad was a computer programmer since the early 1980's.  Still clueless with PCs.  He always had this arrogant attitude that PCs would never replace mainframes with dumb terminals.
Except for the interlude between say 1985 and 2010 he was right. Except these days it's called cloud and user device instead of mainframe and terminal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 21, 2015, 04:37:18 PM
 :XD:

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12360039_988923367847457_2044663800765330153_n.jpg?oh=8123f21a51db38e66ce6d378164acc50&oe=5709FA22)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 21, 2015, 04:59:50 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 21, 2015, 04:37:18 PM
:XD:

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12360039_988923367847457_2044663800765330153_n.jpg?oh=8123f21a51db38e66ce6d378164acc50&oe=5709FA22)

:pinch:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 21, 2015, 05:00:53 PM
Weird Mexican.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 26, 2015, 07:04:19 PM
Hmm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on December 28, 2015, 12:33:56 AM
All the people cutting and pasting the supposed Zuckerberg millions he is going to give away to lucky Facebook members :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 28, 2015, 02:43:06 AM
Quote from: katmai on December 28, 2015, 12:33:56 AM
All the people cutting and pasting the supposed Zuckerberg millions he is going to give away to lucky Facebook members :bleeding:

If true wouldn't the winning chance be even lower than lottery?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 28, 2015, 03:40:58 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12376513_927299160692351_5260158310034517175_n.jpg?oh=ea7b65ab3687c506afbec4754f738855&oe=57129FE9&__gda__=1459689183_43c22d542fe80f44ee397d24cc965f63)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/2977_929088233846777_2409657852388115631_n.jpg?oh=62789c5c72093ef9fddcf8b0a8ff76a9&oe=57215CD2&__gda__=1461403644_de7448da079cfe803eb8b9397783ff39)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 28, 2015, 03:45:09 AM
Did one of our sisters really post this on Facebook?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 28, 2015, 03:47:52 AM
The first yes, the second was in the commentaries.

Still funny, because she and her family lived off welfare for much of the 90s and early 00s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 28, 2015, 03:56:32 AM
How does this Facebook thing work?  Does everyone in the world see what a shameless racist you are, or does this stay within close circle of friends?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 28, 2015, 04:10:47 AM
Depends on your privacy settings and how you flag the post. In this case the post is only visible to other friends. For me, I differentiate between work, family, and (close) friends, though I consider making a second work only account.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 28, 2015, 04:21:05 AM
Let me guess she's also one of those that denies there is racism in the American conservative movement and the real racists are the liberals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 28, 2015, 05:59:00 AM
Section 8? She doesn't look like army material.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 29, 2015, 02:55:10 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t1.0-9/10155241_10152081022655197_235362708632901366_n.png?oh=3985a8bab3d6cd337d709742060ed1ce&oe=571CB755&__gda__=1459948101_3cdfaf4639cd1a4510d1e7856fd59846)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on December 29, 2015, 07:48:45 AM
The only thing that can stop a bad guy with an extinguisher is a good guy with an extinguisher? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 29, 2015, 12:50:11 PM
Try playing Russian Roullette with a fire extinguisher! Or threatening an asshole neighbor.  Can't be done.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 29, 2015, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 29, 2015, 12:50:11 PM
Try playing Russian Roullette with a fire extinguisher! ...  Can't be done.

Sure it can. Take 6 fire extinguishers, empty one out, mix them up, take one home with you, then start a fire.  :showoff:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 29, 2015, 07:01:37 PM
I think you could threaten to beat someone with an extinguisher.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 29, 2015, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 29, 2015, 07:01:37 PM
I think you could threaten to beat someone with an extinguisher.

You could certainly put out the last lingering flame of a relationship with one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on December 30, 2015, 02:47:12 PM
A bunch of idiots on my friends list fell for that "LOL Zuck is giving away a huge share of Facebook to random ppl!!!!" thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 30, 2015, 04:07:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 29, 2015, 02:55:10 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t1.0-9/10155241_10152081022655197_235362708632901366_n.png?oh=3985a8bab3d6cd337d709742060ed1ce&oe=571CB755&__gda__=1459948101_3cdfaf4639cd1a4510d1e7856fd59846)

Ah false equivalency. I am terrified to think how large of a percentage our current political dialog consists of. Both sides just love it to death.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 30, 2015, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2015, 04:07:20 PM
Ah false equivalency. I am terrified to think how large of a percentage our current political dialog consists of. Both sides just love it to death.
:yes: That and golden mean fallacy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on December 31, 2015, 06:19:28 AM
Facebook offers some very good reasons to be pro-abortion rights. Or, actually, make them compulsory.

I have a couple of you guys on my list, and believe me, you are intelligent and charming compared to some others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 31, 2015, 08:01:04 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/1441182_443179959119641_1090537417_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=76bf430623e17f129df938b80158f107&oe=570D99C9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 31, 2015, 08:16:20 PM

Well I laughed.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 01, 2016, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 29, 2015, 02:55:10 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t1.0-9/10155241_10152081022655197_23536270571CB755&__gda__=1459948101_3cdfaf4639cd1a4510d1e7856fd59846)
How many people actually have fire extinguishers at home?
I've never seen them outside of a businesses, schools, etc....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 01, 2016, 05:25:09 PM
It's really a good idea to have one for your home.  They can get a decent one for about 50 bucks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 01, 2016, 06:17:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 01, 2016, 05:25:09 PM
It's really a good idea to have one for your home.  They can get a decent one for about 50 bucks.

This.

And fire blankets, especially if you can't afford a fire extinguisher; fire blankets are as cheap as chips, say $5-$10, no reason not to have several in a house, one each in the kitchen, garage etc. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on January 02, 2016, 09:52:43 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 01, 2016, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 29, 2015, 02:55:10 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t1.0-9/10155241_10152081022655197_23536270571CB755&__gda__=1459948101_3cdfaf4639cd1a4510d1e7856fd59846)
How many people actually have fire extinguishers at home?
I've never seen them outside of a businesses, schools, etc....

There's one in the hall (I live in a flat).

It comes handy, trust me. I've actually witnessed my mom and sis put out a fire with one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 02, 2016, 09:58:39 AM
QuoteWAL-MART VS. THE MORONS (NOT A JOKE)

I know lots of folks don't like Wal-Mart, but this is fascinating.

This is spot-on.

PLEASE, READ THIS TO THE END. IT IS VERY INTERESTING!!!

Wal-Mart vs. The Morons

1. Americans spend $36,000,000 at Wal-Mart Every hour of every day.

2. This works out to $20,928 profit every minute!

3. Wal-Mart will sell more from January 1 to St. Patrick's Day (March
17th) than Target sells all year.

4. Wal-Mart is bigger than Home Depot + Kroger + Target +Sears + Costco

K-Mart combined.

5. Wal-Mart employs 1.6 million people, is the world's largest private
employer, and most speak English.

6. Wal-Mart is the largest company in the history of the world.

7. Wal-Mart now sells more food than Kroger and Safeway combined, and
keep in mind they did this in only fifteen years.

8. During this same period, 31 big supermarket chains sought
bankruptcy.

9. Wal-Mart now sells more food than any other store in the world.

10. Wal-Mart has approx 3,900 stores in the USA of which 1,906 are
Super Centers; this is 1,000 more than it had five years ago.

11. This year 7.2 billion different purchasing experiences will occur
at Wal-Mart stores. (Earth's population is approximately 6.5 Billion.)

12. 90% of all Americans live within fifteen miles of a Wal-Mart.
You may think that I am complaining, but I am really laying the ground
work for suggesting that MAYBE we should hire the guys who run Wal-Mart
to fix the economy.

This should be read and understood by all Americans... Democrats,
Republicans, EVERYONE!!

To President Obama and all 535 voting members of the Legislature,
it is now official that the majority of you are corrupt morons:

a. The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775. You have had 234
years to get it right and it is broke.

b. Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to
get it right and it is broke.

c. Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 years to get
it right and it is broke.

d. War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it
right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to
"the poor" and they only want more.

e. Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44
years to get it right and they are broke.

f. Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get
it right and it is broke.

g. The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our
dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of
$24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 32 years to get
it right and it is an abysmal failure.

You have FAILED in every "government service" you have shoved down our
throats while overspending our tax dollars.

AND YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED
WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM??

Folks, keep this circulating. It is very well stated. Maybe it will end
up in the e-mails of some of our "duly elected' (they never read anything)
and their staff will clue them in on how Americans feel.

AND

I know what's wrong. We have lost our minds to "Political Correctness"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone please tell me what is wrong with all the people that
run this country!!!!!!

We're "broke" and can't help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless
etc. and the last months we have provided aid to Haiti, Chile, and Turkey and now
Pakistan ( the previous home of bin Laden). literally, BILLIONS of DOLLARS!!!

Our retired seniors living on a 'fixed income' receive no aid nor do
they get any breaks.

AMERICA: a country where we have homeless without shelter, children
going to bed hungry, elderly going without needed medicines, and mentally ill
without treatment, etc.

Imagine if the GOVERNMENT gave U. S. the same support they give to
other countries. Sad isn't it?

*99% of the people receiving this message won't have the guts to forward this.

*I'm one of the 1% -- I Just Did
BEING UNITED SAVES AMERICA!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on January 02, 2016, 11:29:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 01, 2016, 05:25:09 PM
It's really a good idea to have one for your home.  They can get a decent one for about 50 bucks.

I live in a shitty condo that I will have to sell at a loss...I hope the damn place burns down. Is it a good idea for me to buy a fire extinguisher?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 02, 2016, 11:48:10 AM
A lot of your stuff would burn with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 02, 2016, 11:59:08 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 02, 2016, 11:29:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 01, 2016, 05:25:09 PM
It's really a good idea to have one for your home.  They can get a decent one for about 50 bucks.

I live in a shitty condo that I will have to sell at a loss...I hope the damn place burns down. Is it a good idea for me to buy a fire extinguisher?

Yes.  Fire insurance can be a bitch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 02, 2016, 12:00:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 02, 2016, 09:58:39 AM
QuoteWAL-MART VS. THE MORONS (NOT A JOKE)



And, we've had an army since the 18th century and there are still countries that don't like us!  What a waste of money!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on January 02, 2016, 12:01:47 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 02, 2016, 11:48:10 AM
A lot of your stuff would burn with it.

Good. 90% of my stuff I plan to get rid of in the coming months.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on January 02, 2016, 12:45:38 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 01, 2016, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 29, 2015, 02:55:10 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t1.0-9/10155241_10152081022655197_23536270571CB755&__gda__=1459948101_3cdfaf4639cd1a4510d1e7856fd59846)
How many people actually have fire extinguishers at home?
I've never seen them outside of a businesses, schools, etc....

The what now?
I think you will find most houses have them. I certainly have two.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 02, 2016, 08:22:40 PM
We really should make a note of this: Tyr is vulnerable to fire based attacks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on January 03, 2016, 09:23:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 02, 2016, 08:22:40 PM
We really should make a note of this: Tyr is vulnerable to fire based attacks.

:lol:

When you're funny, you're funny, Raz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 03, 2016, 10:17:38 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 02, 2016, 11:29:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 01, 2016, 05:25:09 PM
It's really a good idea to have one for your home.  They can get a decent one for about 50 bucks.

I live in a shitty condo that I will have to sell at a loss...I hope the damn place burns down. Is it a good idea for me to buy a fire extinguisher?
Once this post comes to light yo u may not get off as easy as you'd hope.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 06, 2016, 03:44:39 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12342589_1155699211138512_6676546814950064835_n.jpg?oh=cb34acade74839bc468a33e80f9209bd&oe=570036E5&__gda__=1460912494_49327005707fd9f7cccb625fa917e7b1)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1916994_990688240972247_8284600496543731505_n.jpg?oh=164c6b4ef99c665e4b17bddf74fd1e09&oe=57461EAE&__gda__=1460490727_d14688044f051e9262087d99d110f2fd)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 06, 2016, 04:01:12 AM
Is anyone paying attention?

Sometimes I find it troubling or weird that I know so much about what goes on in America. I recognize all the people on the picture and know the references (except the Indian) but I really don't care about most of them. :hmm:

I blame Jon Stewart, it might just be better now that he's gone as they've stopped sending The Daily Show here after he left.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 06, 2016, 04:09:20 AM
I'm at at loss to figure out what those are actually about.  Al  Gore never claimed to be a scientist and Bill Clinton is still someone's husband.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 06, 2016, 04:18:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 06, 2016, 04:09:20 AM
I'm at at loss to figure out what those are actually about.  Al  Gore never claimed to be a scientist and Bill Clinton is still someone's husband.

I'm assuming it's because he presented scientific facts in a documentary once and because Bill has been around the block. Is it stupid? Sure, but have we come to expect anything else from Syt's family? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2016, 04:49:50 AM
The Indian is Elizabeth Warren.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on January 06, 2016, 05:10:39 AM
Syt's family should have their own reality TV show  :cool:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on January 06, 2016, 05:23:04 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 06, 2016, 05:10:39 AM
Syt's family should have their own reality TV show  :cool:
From descriptions by Syt, i think it was done already. Look up "Here comes Honey Boo Boo" :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 06, 2016, 05:26:32 AM
 :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 06, 2016, 05:27:32 AM
Also, this is the kind of stuff my oldest sister likes to repost. :bleeding:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/12360077_10206842989287983_5433931507191980175_n.jpg?oh=25114c90529e66a9c1545a0ba9a50a90&oe=571598AD&__gda__=1459668588_3aa8fe18330478b4ff0c0a86d141cd0c)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on January 06, 2016, 08:44:29 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on January 06, 2016, 10:38:53 AM
I think it is fair to say that Syt is the brains of that family  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 06, 2016, 10:40:08 AM
My gay nephews seem pretty normal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 06, 2016, 01:20:56 PM
Quoted. War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it
right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to
"the poor" and they only want more.

What was the expectation here? The poverty level has been roughly half what it was in 1964 consistently ever since this initiative was started? :hmm: Were we supposed to make the poverty rate zero? For people with little faith in the government they sure do have unrealistic expectations on what can be accomplished.

I especially like going after the USPS, which is run as a veterans pension scheme really, while at the same time attacking the government for not doing more for Veterans. FIRE ALL THOSE VETERANS...but do more for them. And they wonder why government policy is so confused :P

Anyway what is this article claiming? That Wal-Mart should be providing health care? Though if somebody wants to deliver packages cheaper than USPS that would be great. FedEx and UPS are such rip offs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 07, 2016, 05:08:40 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/246699_456721074531406_1728750725394717361_n.jpg?oh=8e707c97a00285f92e59575365df07de&oe=570E243F&__gda__=1464102458_2f8b480f5281f919ca9529b5f11375b4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 07, 2016, 07:22:41 AM
QuoteIf you think the Cologne incidence is a refugee issue, think again. Yes, they were probably Arabic/Muslim originated and yes, I wouldn't mind for them to be banished from Germany but I also would want all the other thousands of blond, blue eyed Christian men to be banished, who daily rape and attack women in Germany and who no-one hardly ever speaks about.

It's been a while. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 07, 2016, 09:45:22 AM
I feel the rest of us should be pulling our weight in this thread, as Syt's relatives seem to be single handedly keeping it afloat.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 07, 2016, 09:51:17 AM
Germans are in great shape today, specially helped by British tabloids:

QuoteReturn of the Luftwaffe: Germany sends 'Iron Cross' Tornado jets to defeat ISIS

QuoteGERMANY has sent two 'Iron Cross' Tornado jets to help in the war against Islamic State, in one of the country's most significant military deployments since the end of the Second World War.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/625761/German-jets-defeat-Islamic-State-Luftwaffe-Tornado-jets?_ga=1.172365796.613692065.1449673374 (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/625761/German-jets-defeat-Islamic-State-Luftwaffe-Tornado-jets?_ga=1.172365796.613692065.1449673374)

QuoteThis is against the constitution of Germany who shall never participate in any kind of war.We'll have situations similar to France any time given and then I can't even go over any longer for a visit.

Germany = Switzerland or Japan?  :hmm: :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 07, 2016, 10:26:12 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 07, 2016, 05:08:40 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/246699_456721074531406_1728750725394717361_n.jpg?oh=8e707c97a00285f92e59575365df07de&oe=570E243F&__gda__=1464102458_2f8b480f5281f919ca9529b5f11375b4)

Who is this that is confiscating all the guns that is leading to this constant stream of memes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 07, 2016, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 07, 2016, 05:08:40 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/246699_456721074531406_1728750725394717361_n.jpg?oh=8e707c97a00285f92e59575365df07de&oe=570E243F&__gda__=1464102458_2f8b480f5281f919ca9529b5f11375b4)

I guess the author didn't notice that Clint plays a criminal in that movie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 07, 2016, 03:13:33 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12472264_10207385197819755_6084636266417517570_n.jpg?oh=cc6224b7a1a506c38b0b8be2a4b05ae1&oe=57068382)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Archy on January 07, 2016, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 07, 2016, 03:13:33 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12472264_10207385197819755_6084636266417517570_n.jpg?oh=cc6224b7a1a506c38b0b8be2a4b05ae1&oe=57068382)
I LOL'ed   :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 09, 2016, 03:32:49 AM
QuoteFacts. (For those of you who are interested.)
Algerian? Moroccan? Iraqi? Oh even American. Yeah thanks France, Britain, and USA for your imperialism, now Germany has to carry the can.

Context:  Köln New Year's Eve attacks and figures reported in the German press.

No mention that 18 of the 29 foreign perpetrators (out of 31) were asylum seekers.  :hmm: No clue about any "second generation" status or not for the remaining two.


QuoteNach Angaben des Bundesinnenministerium hat die Bundespolizei bislang 31 namentlich bekannte Tatverdächtige festgestellt, davon hätten 29 eine ausländische und zwei die deutsche Staatsbürgerschaft. Wie ein Sprecher des Ministeriums am Freitag in Berlin mitteilte, wurden neben den beiden Deutschen neun algerische, acht marokkanische, vier syrische, fünf iranische, ein irakischer, ein serbischer und ein US-amerikanischer Tatverdächtiger ermittelt. 18 der 29 Ausländer hätten den Status als Asylbewerber. Die gegen sie erhobenen Vorwürfe beziehen sich überwiegend auf Diebstahls- und Körperverletzungsdelikte. Sexualdelikte seien bisher nicht mit den Asylbewerbern in Verbindung gebracht worden, sagte der Ministeriumssprecher.

from http://taz.de/Polizeibericht-zu-Uebergriffen-in-Koeln/!5263344/ (http://taz.de/Polizeibericht-zu-Uebergriffen-in-Koeln/!5263344/)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 09, 2016, 01:25:49 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/1933919_1072249899475024_4510719211484861536_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=55c177e77315f04342902e7b6707db8c&oe=5701A2C5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 09, 2016, 01:33:02 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12507584_934431549975891_7490464656560746187_n.jpg?oh=372509f165e14d7f89c69374a95cb2d1&oe=56FE61F0&__gda__=1459912346_d7de82bd1248ce2a52a0db7524359f54)

QuoteIf you don't share this you're not American. The statue is hand carved and is a monument for Chris kyle
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 09, 2016, 01:34:16 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1722924_1319321378127988_8942781069457189654_n.jpg?oh=80804617acc0621c099c226479881613&oe=5747519D&__gda__=1460980033_4499ff4898d9b60f8ebca1e6b3cf52dd)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/11954724_10153252310720756_1904878634757596777_n.jpg?oh=df32ab11a370b81b263c49d86bd6da90&oe=570A4C07&__gda__=1459461209_eaacabb792ae0303a6e47e42887b2cb9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on January 09, 2016, 01:36:35 PM
Is Chris Kyle someone I should know?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on January 09, 2016, 01:37:46 PM
Quote from: Zanza on January 09, 2016, 01:36:35 PM
Is Chris Kyle someone I should know?
the movie American Sniper is based on his book. Does that mean you should know him, not necessarily.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 09, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: Zanza on January 09, 2016, 01:36:35 PM
Is Chris Kyle someone I should know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kyle
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on January 09, 2016, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 09, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: Zanza on January 09, 2016, 01:36:35 PM
Is Chris Kyle someone I should know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kyle
So they gave a handgun to someone they knew was insane and he then shot them dead? That wasn't very smart of them...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 09, 2016, 02:10:04 PM
Quote from: Zanza on January 09, 2016, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 09, 2016, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: Zanza on January 09, 2016, 01:36:35 PM
Is Chris Kyle someone I should know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kyle
So they gave a handgun to someone they knew was insane and he then shot them dead? That wasn't very smart of them...

You hate freedom and the 2nd Amendment. :( ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on January 09, 2016, 04:08:11 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/314414_10150869873995717_1330212826_n.jpg?oh=7e1afc2248fff7b41b8012056c785418&oe=570B8333&__gda__=1459491000_dcbe818ebddac5443fa2d8f11e619572)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 10, 2016, 02:39:38 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11813336_534896193332721_6065904170142187415_n.jpg?oh=6242285bb141d99fac4e91f0bea1c422&oe=57069513&__gda__=1459659426_0519f6d56be7f0d0d53b3ce34febfbd3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on January 10, 2016, 02:41:35 AM
Sounds like an excellent plan!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 10, 2016, 12:32:57 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12472251_985469334847019_5243568555508393899_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=b30716dfe132fd02a7d8be079ed6cf40&oe=5712E1F5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 10, 2016, 12:37:26 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 10, 2016, 12:32:57 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12472251_985469334847019_5243568555508393899_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=b30716dfe132fd02a7d8be079ed6cf40&oe=5712E1F5)

I don't fully understand this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 10, 2016, 12:43:20 PM
The Boner or the poop?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 10, 2016, 01:46:19 PM
The logic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 10, 2016, 08:13:43 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 10, 2016, 01:46:19 PM
The logic.

What, you think that there is more than one "English version" of the bible?  Preposterous!

Don't try to apply logic to bumper-sticker thinking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 11, 2016, 01:16:31 AM
http://conservativetribune.com/muslim-welfare-queen-judge/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PostBottomSharingButtons&utm_content=2016-01-10&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

QuoteMuslim "Welfare Queen" Refuses to Remove Headscarf in Court... Judge Puts Her in Her Place

Muslim immigrant Rania El-Alloul had a rude awakening in a Montreal court when she showed up wearing her Islamic head covering.

Arrogantly assuming that the court would bow to her beliefs, she was told by Quebec Judge Eliana Marengo that if she wanted to be heard she would have to remove her hajib.

"The courtroom is a secular place and a secular space," said Marengo. "There are no religious symbols in this room. Not on the walls and not on the persons."

The judge went on to say that she would not hear anyone that appeared wearing a hat or sunglasses either.

"I will therefore not hear you if you are wearing a scarf on your head," Marengo said.

When asked if she would remove the headscarf so that the court could continue, El-Alloul declined.

"Actually I cannot remove my scarf," said El-Alloul. "Since long years I'm wearing my scarf."

El-Alloul then started to give the judge excuses that she was poor, on welfare and a mother of three on her own, but the judge would hear none of it.

"That's not what I'm talking about," said Marengo in reference to the excuses.

The judge told her that she would not be hearing her case and that she could consult a lawyer.

El-Alloul was appearing before the court to try to get back her car, which had been impounded after police discovered her son driving it without a license (H/T Mad World News).

Of the incident, El-Alloul says that she now lives in fear. "What happened in the court made me afraid. I felt that I'm not Canadian anymore," she said.

Just as liberal secular humanists don't want to be judged under Christian principals, people of other religions must understand that they don't get a special pass either.

Immigrants to another nation should be ready to assimilate to their chosen country's laws, language and culture if they wish to live there.

Please share this article on Facebook and Twitter if you agree that Muslims must follow the laws of the country in which they choose to live.

I wonder if my sister and her husband would have shared this if this was about her wearing a cross pendant instead. :hmm: What is the judge going to do if there's a Sikh with a turban?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on January 11, 2016, 01:47:37 AM
Wow, Quebec does indeed seem to be inhabited by racist assholes. I thought it was just on Languish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on January 11, 2016, 01:49:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 11, 2016, 01:16:31 AMI wonder if my sister and her husband would have shared this if this was about her wearing a cross pendant instead. :hmm: What is the judge going to do if there's a Sikh with a turban?

Or a Catholic priest being ordered to remove his cassock.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on January 11, 2016, 01:55:00 AM
Quote from: Martinus on January 11, 2016, 01:47:37 AM
Wow, Quebec does indeed seem to be inhabited by racist assholes. I thought it was just on Languish.

Okay Mr. "Its fun to be racist."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 11, 2016, 06:04:29 AM
You can't have cossacks in a courtroom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 11, 2016, 08:11:40 AM
I guess "reasonable accommodation" doesn't translate into Quebecois.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 11, 2016, 08:36:45 AM
Btw, further investigation reveals that this is a news story from March of last year, and that the welfare queen refused to accept $50,000 that a crowdfunding campaign collected for her so she could buy a new car. I don't seem to be able to find if there were any repercussions for either her or the judge otherwise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 11, 2016, 09:38:38 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 11, 2016, 01:16:31 AM
http://conservativetribune.com/muslim-welfare-queen-judge/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PostBottomSharingButtons&utm_content=2016-01-10&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

QuoteMuslim "Welfare Queen" Refuses to Remove Headscarf in Court... Judge Puts Her in Her Place

Muslim immigrant Rania El-Alloul had a rude awakening in a Montreal court when she showed up wearing her Islamic head covering.

Arrogantly assuming that the court would bow to her beliefs, she was told by Quebec Judge Eliana Marengo that if she wanted to be heard she would have to remove her hajib.

"The courtroom is a secular place and a secular space," said Marengo. "There are no religious symbols in this room. Not on the walls and not on the persons."

The judge went on to say that she would not hear anyone that appeared wearing a hat or sunglasses either.

"I will therefore not hear you if you are wearing a scarf on your head," Marengo said.

When asked if she would remove the headscarf so that the court could continue, El-Alloul declined.

"Actually I cannot remove my scarf," said El-Alloul. "Since long years I'm wearing my scarf."

El-Alloul then started to give the judge excuses that she was poor, on welfare and a mother of three on her own, but the judge would hear none of it.

"That's not what I'm talking about," said Marengo in reference to the excuses.

The judge told her that she would not be hearing her case and that she could consult a lawyer.

El-Alloul was appearing before the court to try to get back her car, which had been impounded after police discovered her son driving it without a license (H/T Mad World News).

Of the incident, El-Alloul says that she now lives in fear. "What happened in the court made me afraid. I felt that I'm not Canadian anymore," she said.

Just as liberal secular humanists don't want to be judged under Christian principals, people of other religions must understand that they don't get a special pass either.

Immigrants to another nation should be ready to assimilate to their chosen country's laws, language and culture if they wish to live there.

Please share this article on Facebook and Twitter if you agree that Muslims must follow the laws of the country in which they choose to live.

I wonder if my sister and her husband would have shared this if this was about her wearing a cross pendant instead. :hmm: What is the judge going to do if there's a Sikh with a turban?

It depends on the judge really but told to take it off.

You guys really don't understand what Secular anti-clericalism means, eh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 11, 2016, 09:41:32 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 11, 2016, 09:38:38 AM
It depends on the judge really but told to take it off.

You guys really don't understand what Secular anti-clericalism means, eh.

Yep. It is kind of funny to see Christian fundies cheering on their mortal foes when they go after the other religions though. What is that saying about how religious people and Atheists can at least agree 99.99% of religions are wrong?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 11, 2016, 10:02:10 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 11, 2016, 09:38:38 AM
You guys really don't understand what Secular anti-clericalism means, eh.

Of course we understand what it means, and understand the intolerance that drives it.  Anti-clericalism is not some special brand of intolerance that outsiders can't understand.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 11, 2016, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 11, 2016, 09:41:32 AM
Yep. It is kind of funny to see Christian fundies cheering on their mortal foes when they go after the other religions though. What is that saying about how religious people and Atheists can at least agree 99.99% of religions are wrong?

Indeed.  The people who wrote this were likely exploding in rage when that judge was told to take the Ten Commandments off the wall of his courthouse.  Of course, they then elected him to be the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 12, 2016, 09:59:08 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12523046_553087151534768_3179108310562582590_n.jpg?oh=61bf5280c29e02009af6376cd3e5a54a&oe=56FB4C2B&__gda__=1463598109_417bba4203b7c75566af3893411391b5)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xft1/v/t1.0-9/10295794_482894088562541_7601022372879281207_n.jpg?oh=b401a69bc9eb5440f311f9796f16edb3&oe=56FC01B2&__gda__=1459326264_49dc0b8c3bc9fdc96e5f86003fdca593)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12279015_10207042254966428_3205843415748857381_n.jpg?oh=06d98754fb39cf3f2c62408fbcf1bc9f&oe=5749B744&__gda__=1459836449_51b8151574b82f783d791fd14736d6db)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 12, 2016, 10:35:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 11, 2016, 01:16:31 AM
http://conservativetribune.com/muslim-welfare-queen-judge/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PostBottomSharingButtons&utm_content=2016-01-10&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

QuoteMuslim "Welfare Queen" Refuses to Remove Headscarf in Court... Judge Puts Her in Her Place

Muslim immigrant Rania El-Alloul had a rude awakening in a Montreal court when she showed up wearing her Islamic head covering.

Arrogantly assuming that the court would bow to her beliefs, she was told by Quebec Judge Eliana Marengo that if she wanted to be heard she would have to remove her hajib.

"The courtroom is a secular place and a secular space," said Marengo. "There are no religious symbols in this room. Not on the walls and not on the persons."

The judge went on to say that she would not hear anyone that appeared wearing a hat or sunglasses either.

"I will therefore not hear you if you are wearing a scarf on your head," Marengo said.

When asked if she would remove the headscarf so that the court could continue, El-Alloul declined.

"Actually I cannot remove my scarf," said El-Alloul. "Since long years I'm wearing my scarf."

El-Alloul then started to give the judge excuses that she was poor, on welfare and a mother of three on her own, but the judge would hear none of it.

"That's not what I'm talking about," said Marengo in reference to the excuses.

The judge told her that she would not be hearing her case and that she could consult a lawyer.

El-Alloul was appearing before the court to try to get back her car, which had been impounded after police discovered her son driving it without a license (H/T Mad World News).

Of the incident, El-Alloul says that she now lives in fear. "What happened in the court made me afraid. I felt that I'm not Canadian anymore," she said.

Just as liberal secular humanists don't want to be judged under Christian principals, people of other religions must understand that they don't get a special pass either.

Immigrants to another nation should be ready to assimilate to their chosen country's laws, language and culture if they wish to live there.

Please share this article on Facebook and Twitter if you agree that Muslims must follow the laws of the country in which they choose to live.

I wonder if my sister and her husband would have shared this if this was about her wearing a cross pendant instead. :hmm: What is the judge going to do if there's a Sikh with a turban?

Funny article, since it A: doesn't provide any links, or even dates; and B: flies in the face of binding Canadian case law.

Some quick googling shows what Syt found - that it was from March 2015, but also that the decision was roundly criticized.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 12, 2016, 10:37:02 AM
The tax list in my last post is, of course, also wrong (according to Snopes).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2016, 10:48:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2016, 09:59:08 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xft1/v/t1.0-9/10295794_482894088562541_7601022372879281207_n.jpg?oh=b401a69bc9eb5440f311f9796f16edb3&oe=56FC01B2&__gda__=1459326264_49dc0b8c3bc9fdc96e5f86003fdca593)

The best America had used their connections to join the reserves. That was the problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on January 12, 2016, 10:49:13 AM
Also, I never knew Dennis the Menace was a "refugee". Though that does explain some things.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2016, 10:56:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2016, 09:59:08 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12523046_553087151534768_3179108310562582590_n.jpg?oh=61bf5280c29e02009af6376cd3e5a54a&oe=56FB4C2B&__gda__=1463598109_417bba4203b7c75566af3893411391b5)

Pretty sure an "undetermined number" is a few thousand while there are millions of seniors so...probably one is much more affordable than the other?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2016, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2016, 10:37:02 AM
The tax list in my last post is, of course, also wrong (according to Snopes).

It is a straight lie.

There are three kinds of politics memes:

False Equivalency
Things that are true but presented in such a way as to tell a lie
Straight up lies
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 12, 2016, 11:00:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2016, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2016, 10:37:02 AM
The tax list in my last post is, of course, also wrong (according to Snopes).

It is a straight lie.

There are three kinds of politics memes:

False Equivalency
Things that are true but presented in such a way as to tell a lie
Straight up lies

Sure, but plenty people who can't be bothered to fact check what they post, or believe that the really true truth is only found in "alternative" media, outside the main stream media (or Lügenpresse, as the German equivalent would say).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 12, 2016, 11:08:01 AM
Poor Syt. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2016, 01:46:18 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12540548_1041325859257442_9108395801329967733_n.png?oh=f801334cfe3504ec0b6780ea7a82579d&oe=57396AEB&__gda__=1464304852_a32d4a0b509372a8cb156a39813588eb)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12507138_639379872867945_8017432098222506419_n.jpg?oh=cc0a38c2f4c30e65c7fa77df902d9450&oe=573B3CD9&__gda__=1460562256_6714eada4df1ec31379ad37ebefa79ee)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12410542_427173404147823_4398485158715139742_n.png?oh=014a18b7da6c1f6a287bc30ee056e493&oe=573D1DF6&__gda__=1463747228_104d4691789008a23fcf64e553228779)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 13, 2016, 02:00:23 AM
Oh, c'mon, they aren't even trying to make it plausible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on January 13, 2016, 07:04:34 AM
I wonder if images like the one Syt posts constantly even exist in German political discourse or if I am just so isolated in my peer group that I don't see them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 13, 2016, 07:11:23 AM
Quote from: Zanza on January 13, 2016, 07:04:34 AM
I wonder if images like the one Syt posts constantly even exist in German political discourse or if I am just so isolated in my peer group that I don't see them.

Someone is looking for silly things to post.  They probably exist (in proportional numbers) in every Western country, but people in most countries are too ashamed of their stupidity to widely share them.

Every country has its share of those who are willfully ignorant and proud of it.  The US has far more than its share, IMO.  Syt's family seems like the distilled essence of that movement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 13, 2016, 11:29:33 AM
I find that illegal aliens can get drivers license baffling.

Hollywood showed me that immigrants are afraid of the authorities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2016, 01:34:54 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xla1/v/t1.0-9/12524294_853157758145573_7692515323071829072_n.jpg?oh=4d8eece9c12e1db277732a0d278770c1&oe=573AB51E&__gda__=1463587507_1fd21236488a11f7dcae1d3f1180269e)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-0/p350x350/12391271_1292202647472982_5936852006128992399_n.jpg?oh=a18a0a256836db4af32031b86ac6244d&oe=570BF653)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12400446_1020563894653036_2102796976690862567_n.jpg?oh=de2710c148e092598741248ff4793c59&oe=570AADAF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 16, 2016, 03:40:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2016, 10:56:46 AM
Pretty sure an "undetermined number" is a few thousand while there are millions of seniors so...probably one is much more affordable than the other?
wouldn't the same people be opposed to any increase in government spending, even for seniors?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 16, 2016, 03:45:11 AM
That dog has some nerve. Even if his masters aren't working, they still have to do chores for his sake. Whereas, he does absolutely nothing. Probably can't even fetch a newspaper.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2016, 03:51:26 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/946160_967011670037943_2934364336450323476_n.jpg?oh=c1232bb668db0d93cd7c729c82e4e999&oe=573FF4DC&__gda__=1463080240_a2ce76c8c8f5f958fbf3e3df66a7a640)

"When the attack was in France flags were at half mast. When new york shook the flags were at half mast. Why are they now that own compatriots were killed NOT at half mast. It's a disgrace for the germans!"
- My German niece. I tried to preserve some of the grammatical errors, but they're not all easily translatable (like inconsistent capitalization).

I would like a divorce from my family, please.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 16, 2016, 04:03:35 AM
Syt, were you adopted?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2016, 04:07:14 AM
Or maybe your parents moved right before you were born, to a house with a little less lead paint?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 16, 2016, 04:10:55 AM
I don't understand the German image enough to cast judgment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2016, 04:11:55 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 16, 2016, 04:10:55 AM
I don't understand the German image enough to cast judgment.

It's about the Germans killed in the bomb attack in Istanbul.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2016, 06:16:23 AM
Quote from: DGuller on January 16, 2016, 04:03:35 AM
Syt, were you adopted?

Sometimes I wonder. I'm the only one of my immediate family (parents and siblings, my in laws in Germany AFAIK, my niece+nephew in Germany ...) who has the school qualification to go to university. Everyone else did minimum diploma. Even so I was originally sent down this path because my parents found it inappropriate for a working class child to go to the Gymnasium (after elementary, children back in the day, and mostly today still, though there's other options, were sorted into Hauptschule (at the time a qualification for crafts jobs), Realschule (office jobs), Gymnasium (high qualification office jobs + university prep), and I had a strong recommendation for Gymnasium, because I had skipped otherwise mandatory pre-school and just breezed my way through elementary school. I was then thoroughly bored at Realschule where I came out with one of the best exams/final years of any student there to the point that my old head teacher apologized for having to teach me because I was clearly under-challenged and the school had no means of supporting me. I then went to a business school that gave me the Gymnasium-qualification.

Most of my class mates went on to university, but that was out of the question for me. 1, I had no idea what to study. I was kinda interested in macro-economics at the time, and programming, but I didn't have a PC. 2, even with state support it would have been really difficult for me to finance this in any way without working at least 20h/week. So I went with public administration (which was a college degree, probably equivalent roughly to a bachelor?) where I would receive payment during my studies (but where others had parents supporting them, the meager money I received was all I had to pay rent and utilities at home and  a room at where the college was.

So yeah, no idea how I fit into my otherwise not well educated family who often exhibit an interesting lack of critical thinking. OTOH they all have loving families while I have no interest in ever having a family, so I don't think we have a clear winner here. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 16, 2016, 06:56:56 AM
Immigration minister (right) was caught lying about how day care institutions can no longer serve ham because of muslims, turns out they still do.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fekstrabladet.dk%2Fincoming%2Fa85urk%2F5906511%2FIMAGE_ALTERNATES%2Fp900%2Finger.jpg&hash=a477177e9b4580cb972bcbf998cfc25d241270e2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2016, 06:57:50 AM
Quote from: Liep on January 16, 2016, 06:56:56 AM
Immigration minister (right)
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on January 16, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
So this has been the most popular pic on my Facebook feed for the last few days...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on January 16, 2016, 12:20:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2016, 02:00:23 AM
Oh, c'mon, they aren't even trying to make it plausible.

I know. That math exercise is a way off. The right answer is two orange fish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 17, 2016, 12:16:32 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12360176_961062210596027_3066984173449394452_n.jpg?oh=c4d0b848edb2e0d163e56bb2f3b147dd&oe=56FD1B05&__gda__=1459764404_de55609f00419df254a9efb9b2c6cb4f)

"Service guarantees citizenship!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 17, 2016, 03:09:32 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12573205_1156039507739859_2745152124731286217_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=f95bdd0fb7f731572d24cfda2943c7ab&oe=57041735)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 17, 2016, 03:22:37 PM
I don't doubt Cruz's intellect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 17, 2016, 05:15:39 PM
Yeah, that's a very strange line of attack.  Of all the entirely plausible and truthful attacks, that's what you're going to go for?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 17, 2016, 08:16:12 PM
I never assume that people who disagree with me are idiots.  Unless they disagree with me on something fundamental like what my own name is, or that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, or whatever.  I can confidently say that Sarah Palin is an idiot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 18, 2016, 06:08:33 AM
How old does Ted Cruz think the earth is?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 18, 2016, 06:27:02 AM
Not everyone who believes the earth is 6000 years old is an idiot. Intelligent people are just as vulnerable to cognitive dissonance as everybody else.

Though in the case of GOP politicians, I suspect cynical hypocrisy is more common than earnest belief.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on January 18, 2016, 06:48:25 AM
Quote from: Liep on January 18, 2016, 06:08:33 AM
How old does Ted Cruz think the earth is?

According to Raz, 6,000 years old. If he disagreed with that, he would have been an idiot. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2016, 09:08:11 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 18, 2016, 06:27:02 AM
Not everyone who believes the earth is 6000 years old is an idiot. Intelligent people are just as vulnerable to cognitive dissonance as everybody else.

You have to swallow a lot of assumptions to actually believe that creation happened 6000 years ago.  I suppose ignorance could account for a lot of that belief (sometimes willful ignorance), but it is my contention that a whole lot of people believe the Young Earth Creationist concept because it sets them apart from and above those who use reason.  I think YEC is more a response to the perceived materialism and moral decay of the world than it is a theological stance; "if you believe x, then y must be true, because you are so wrong about everything else."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2016, 03:52:37 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12540544_1013981878658261_6918324446832973844_n.jpg?oh=60c02b72aa4e20db36c0b55f03c34085&oe=573F00DA&__gda__=1463513482_16788825aaf768c35d348f32c5f04542)

QuoteFINALLY SOMEONE ASKED HIM THE QUESTION!
ON "ABC-TV" DURING THE "NETWORK SPECIAL ON HEALTH CARE".... OBAMA WAS ASKED:
"MR. PRESIDENT WILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY GIVE UP YOUR CURRENT HEALTH CARE PROGRAM
AND JOIN THE NEW 'UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE PROGRAM' THAT THE REST OF US WILL BE ON ????"
THERE WAS A STONEY SILENCE AS <>OBAMA IGNORED THE QUESTION AND CHOSE NOT TO ANSWER IT !!!
IN ADDITION, A NUMBER OF SENATORS WERE ASKED THE SAME QUESTION AND THEIR RESPONSE WAS."WE WILL THINK ABOUT IT."
AND THEY DID. IT WAS ANNOUNCED TODAY ON THE NEWS THAT THE "KENNEDY HEALTH CARE BILL" WAS WRITTEN INTO THE NEW HEALTH CARE REFORM INITIATIVE ENSURING THAT THAT CONGRESS WILL BE 100% EXEMPT !
SO, THIS GREAT NEW HEALTH CARE PLAN THAT IS GOOD FOR YOU AND I... IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OBAMA, HIS FAMILY OR CONGRESS...??
WE (THE AMERICAN PUBLIC) NEED TO STOP THIS PROPOSED DEBACLE ASAP !!!! THIS IS TOTALLY WRONG !!!!!
PERSONALLY, I CAN ONLY ACCEPT A UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE OVERHAUL THAT EXTENDS TO EVERYONE... NOT JUST US LOWLY CITIZENS.... WHILE THE WASHINGTON "ELITE" KEEP RIGHT ON WITH THEIR GOLD-PLATED HEALTH CARE COVERAGES.
If you don't pass this around, may you enjoy his Plan!

WHAT???
The Republic has a CONSTITUTION???

Amendment 28

Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators or Representatives, and Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States .

Imagine what we could do if everybody passed this around.
Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators or Representatives, and Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States .

Imagine what we could do if everybody passed this around.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 20, 2016, 08:41:33 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12548908_782689471831025_6045781967874139960_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=67e017c3b1b8c677e57e611c72c358e7&oe=574A0132)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 20, 2016, 08:48:03 PM
 :hmm: I wouldn't want to take a shit on that one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 20, 2016, 09:51:54 PM
I'm a little confused by that last one Syt.  There is no 28th amendment, and Congress is not exempt from the ACA.  I was a little curious where it came from, and apparently the article is a complete lie.  Obama wasn't asked that question.  He was asked some other weird question about Healthcare, which he did answer.  You need to tell your sister that someone is lying to them, trying to make them look like fools.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2016, 04:15:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 20, 2016, 09:51:54 PM
I'm a little confused by that last one Syt.  There is no 28th amendment, and Congress is not exempt from the ACA.  I was a little curious where it came from, and apparently the article is a complete lie.  Obama wasn't asked that question.  He was asked some other weird question about Healthcare, which he did answer.  You need to tell your sister that someone is lying to them, trying to make them look like fools.

1. It's from my brother in law.
2. I've stopped correcting their Facebook posts. I would do little else if I kept doing that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 21, 2016, 08:24:23 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 21, 2016, 04:15:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 20, 2016, 09:51:54 PM
I'm a little confused by that last one Syt.  There is no 28th amendment, and Congress is not exempt from the ACA.  I was a little curious where it came from, and apparently the article is a complete lie.  Obama wasn't asked that question.  He was asked some other weird question about Healthcare, which he did answer.  You need to tell your sister that someone is lying to them, trying to make them look like fools.

1. It's from my brother in law.
2. I've stopped correcting their Facebook posts. I would do little else if I kept doing that.

Yeah Syt, I was just thinking if you lived a near infinite life, the all of you posts on languish would end up being in this thread and none in any other.

I think you need to kick this thread into touch for purposes on your own mental well being; please do lock it so it can sink into the oblivion of page x of the forum index.  :) 

I'm sure other Languishites who find or are sent stupid social media shit will still be happy to post it in OTT. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 21, 2016, 08:29:32 AM
Syt's sacrifice for the entertainment of Languish is very appreciated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on January 21, 2016, 09:07:43 AM
Quote from: Liep on January 21, 2016, 08:29:32 AM
Syt's sacrifice for the entertainment of Languish is very appreciated.

:yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 21, 2016, 10:55:12 PM
A good friend of mine recently hopped aboard this dietary supplement fad called Plexus and became a "Plexus Ambassador." She won't stop posting about it on FB and badgered me for two days about Plexus products before she gave up trying to sell the crap to me.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkrAejGx.png&hash=d125876c854ac808866c3e14a174a25f882d9211)

QuoteMaybe you are suffering with joint pain, indigestion, sleeplessness, low energy or are unhappy with your weight.
Getting your gut healthy, balancing your blood sugar, and reducing inflammation are three steps to feeling better that you might not even know about. Whole body health could make all the difference for you!

Contact me if you are ready to try Plexus!!

QuotePlexus is not a scam or a pyramid scheme it is a health and wellness company that sells natural products to help people. We do not claim to be the miracle cure for everything but we do have hundreds of thousands of testimonials from people plexus has helped. Whether it be from digestive issues, weightloss, insomnia, exhaustion, pain management and many more ailments. I am so happy and excited to be a part of such a great team with my mission to help people become healthier and happier smile emoticon if you're interested in plexus or becoming an ambassador let me know! ‪#‎watchmeorjoinme‬

QuoteI was definitely a skeptic of Plexus before trying it. I thought it wasn't going to do anything and was too expensive but then i tried it. Now i LOVE it! It has given me energy, curbed my appetite, slimmed my waist, helped me sleep better and i haven't gotten sick. If you try plexus and want to return it for whatever reason we have a 60 day money back guarantee.if you dont try it youll never know so why not? Inbox me for my website to check out our all natural products! smile emoticon ‪#‎cant‬ get enough of the pink drink


Fucking christ :bleeding::bleeding::bleeding::bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 22, 2016, 04:40:39 AM
When you need to advertise that it's not a pyramide scheme it's definitely a pyramide scheme. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 22, 2016, 05:15:12 AM
Why do you hate wellness?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 22, 2016, 08:57:26 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 22, 2016, 09:03:46 AM
I think I need those products.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2016, 09:05:02 AM
Cleanses are nonsense so anytime you see that being advertised, run. It has all the logic of using leaches to remove the bad humors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 22, 2016, 09:13:14 AM
She took great offense when I asked for any sort of evidence from independent researchers on the efficacy and safety of the products. Then she said thousands of people are trying it so I might as well too. What have I got to lose????
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 23, 2016, 04:37:07 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11037083_665299426936572_7584068021651261000_n.png?oh=2b5d1f6cd580c8e0d631d9e941167b3e&oe=56FD64E8&__gda__=1463408862_dedc167ed568f42f1f1cbb2f99d01d69)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/12321227_1234715719889900_4404778195211309173_n.jpg?oh=96f09ea92bedfa7172a75831fe3d8a8a&oe=57451B72&__gda__=1463575143_4192070b6e593f91fea40d91f85ce60d)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 23, 2016, 04:36:38 PM
I didn't realized St. Patrick's Day and other European cultural celebrations were condemned as racist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 23, 2016, 04:43:11 PM
Weird as google shows that white people were nominated for BET awards last year and Sam Smith even won.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on January 23, 2016, 04:51:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 23, 2016, 04:43:11 PM
Weird as google shows that white people were nominated for BET awards last year and Sam Smith even won.

Yeah. The fact that they nominated and gave awards to Chris Brown is more embarrassing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 23, 2016, 05:00:47 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 23, 2016, 04:43:11 PM
Weird as google shows that white people were nominated for BET awards last year and Sam Smith even won.

People who make memes do research on the things they are attacking? Well now that would just be crazy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 24, 2016, 12:42:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12509032_1546411728831866_8645220590308778031_n.jpg?oh=ee5bb7a99cb6c56ddb73747867076521&oe=57476727)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12417609_648717381944452_3971672792637452558_n.jpg?oh=0088b24d24bc40e1fdc901f352c70988&oe=5745A7ED&__gda__=1462498523_463b233426b6f40ffca8bfc8258c6338)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on January 24, 2016, 04:08:13 AM
New Year's Eve in Cologne: 
(https://i.imgur.com/UP9hJR9.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 24, 2016, 04:49:13 AM
QuoteThe 62 richest people in the world have increased their wealth by more than half a trillion dollars, to a total of $1.76 trillion.
No one bats an eye.
Refugees owning a smartphone,
everyone looses their minds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 24, 2016, 03:35:09 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/1489030_10152319268111742_1633818778_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=1b2bd73409fd8cedc5ce3c82c667fc12&oe=56FB9211)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 24, 2016, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on January 24, 2016, 04:49:13 AM
QuoteThe 62 richest people in the world have increased their wealth by more than half a trillion dollars, to a total of $1.76 trillion.
No one bats an eye.
Refugees owning a smartphone,
everyone looses their minds.

These stupid things are a favorite of leftist activists and they just drive me nuts. Sure nobody cares about the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, nobody has ever worried about that ever. Whatever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 24, 2016, 06:19:02 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2016, 12:42:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12509032_1546411728831866_8645220590308778031_n.jpg?oh=ee5bb7a99cb6c56ddb73747867076521&oe=57476727)

This explains the excellent health and long lives of the Russian people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 24, 2016, 06:25:39 PM
What does it mean to develop your body in an upward trajectory? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 24, 2016, 06:38:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 24, 2016, 06:25:39 PM
What does it mean to develop your body in an upward trajectory? :hmm:

Maybe Putin's having people stretched on the rack?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 24, 2016, 06:38:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 24, 2016, 06:25:39 PM
What does it mean to develop your body in an upward trajectory? :hmm:

Astonishingly excellent health.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 25, 2016, 06:37:56 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12644681_10102093218090963_2268490548374528724_n.jpg?oh=5a951a0450d14e961ff3cc6feeba78a5&oe=5745CBA5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 25, 2016, 06:39:46 PM
I don't get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 25, 2016, 06:43:42 PM
Facebook moments and how they pop up all the time telling you about inconsequential shit you posted years ago on the same day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 25, 2016, 06:45:22 PM
asoka
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 30, 2016, 03:32:16 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12642968_1720697201495891_8194405581167153981_n.jpg?oh=62a2572e0a52b34a3e562ac527fea2da&oe=5740EC65&__gda__=1463526040_d295eddad0c09241c41fb8df7b1c36b8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on January 30, 2016, 04:28:54 PM
NEEDS MORE FRAKTUR.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 05, 2016, 11:24:48 AM
It's a contact of a contact, so it's a bit like cheating but it ended up on my feed and there is no reason you should not be able to enjoy it.

Quote(...), you mean, only in Babylon ? Hehe Emoji grin I know you are an atheist but since we are good friends, let me point out that according to some theological research, Satan is the first misogynist. He hates women because of their identity. He actually envies them. But that is an indenpendent theological research made by honest experts, not by the Vatican or the Rabbinate. So this truth is not told in religion, only in spirituality you learn that fact. And according to some other investigations into ET worlds, some researchers have found that mysoginy has been inherited by hybrid humans from an evil race called the Draconians, or Draco-Reptilians. When you combine both what the revealed secrets concerning the ET civilisations and some code words used in the Bible, you find out that Satan (the great red Dragon) and the Draconians, are one and the same entity. There is a lot more to tell on this subject. The Draconians are for example claimed to work with the Vatican.

Context: it started with the pro-rape troll, the contacts in question swallowed the bait and went on a rant with only in America = Babylon. The rest is pure magic. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on February 05, 2016, 11:36:22 AM
So Fizban = Satan?  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 05, 2016, 12:36:32 PM
I had to check on wiki, no less, who was this Fizban of yours.   :nerd:

I'll stick with draco/dragon = devil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 05, 2016, 12:40:51 PM
Nothing here for a week.  :hmm: I think Syt's family unfriended him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 05, 2016, 01:25:18 PM
They haven't really posted any BS recently. Also, my nephew is marrying his boyfriend. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on February 05, 2016, 01:33:20 PM
For whatever reason all my 30-something American female Facebook friends are going ballistic over the Gilmore Girls revival, posting cast news and other news like every day. I wasn't aware this was such a cultural icon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 05, 2016, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 05, 2016, 01:25:18 PM
They haven't really posted any BS recently. Also, my nephew is marrying his boyfriend. :)

Congrats to your family :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 05, 2016, 01:36:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 05, 2016, 01:25:18 PM
They haven't really posted any BS recently. Also, my nephew is marrying his boyfriend. :)
Congrats!  And good for your nephew as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 05, 2016, 01:42:11 PM
Yeah. His brother married his boyfriend last year. Guess he didn't want to be left behind. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 05, 2016, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 05, 2016, 01:42:11 PM
Yeah. His brother married his boyfriend last year. Guess he didn't want to be left behind. :P

Are they sons of your crazy sister or is it another part of the family?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 05, 2016, 04:33:55 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 05, 2016, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 05, 2016, 01:42:11 PM
Yeah. His brother married his boyfriend last year. Guess he didn't want to be left behind. :P

Are they sons of your crazy sister or is it another part of the family?

He has multiple sisters living in the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 05, 2016, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 05, 2016, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 05, 2016, 01:42:11 PM
Yeah. His brother married his boyfriend last year. Guess he didn't want to be left behind. :P

Are they sons of your crazy sister or is it another part of the family?

One of the sisters's sons.  Syt has said for all the other crazy stuff they post about they're very pro-LGBT rights.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 05, 2016, 04:46:33 PM
All sisters, or just the one with three gay children?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 17, 2016, 08:41:26 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12716201_1246689605358649_5532418049300894018_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 17, 2016, 09:50:05 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 18, 2016, 12:37:48 AM
More stuff from Ank:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtf1/v/t35.0-12/12755106_10153467109896849_1430426270_o.jpg?oh=be337188a3d077201e8aa5883a17d7ec&oe=56C7066A&__gda__=1455904822_777a5db411642ed644277e504ab03104)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 18, 2016, 02:22:55 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 18, 2016, 12:37:48 AM
More stuff from Ank:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtf1/v/t35.0-12/12755106_10153467109896849_1430426270_o.jpg?oh=be337188a3d077201e8aa5883a17d7ec&oe=56C7066A&__gda__=1455904822_777a5db411642ed644277e504ab03104)

Yeah, so what?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 18, 2016, 03:09:17 AM
Of all the things he posts, you pick that one? :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 18, 2016, 03:20:53 AM
Is the point to show his naivete?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 18, 2016, 03:52:09 AM
That's just not true - the Democratic Party supported slavery so unless you consider blacks not wanting to be slaves a "special interest group", the claim that the Democratic Party has always been like described in the quote is just incorrect.

Like I said on Facebook, I may be a fan of modern day Germany, but I wouldn't say that "Germany has always been a force for peace and tolerance in Europe". Only an idiot would say that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 18, 2016, 04:13:14 AM
It was 1948. I doubt Truman was framing that quote in the context of black Americans.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 18, 2016, 04:15:11 AM
I assure you, there were groups of people with a special interest having disproportionate sway in both parties in 1948.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 18, 2016, 04:24:18 AM
Quote from: Jaron on February 18, 2016, 04:13:14 AM
It was 1948. I doubt Truman was framing that quote in the context of black Americans.  :rolleyes:

Does that really matter though? You invoke the greatness of a name through the ages, you take the bad as well as the good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 18, 2016, 04:35:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 18, 2016, 03:52:09 AM
That's just not true - the Democratic Party supported slavery so unless you consider blacks not wanting to be slaves a "special interest group", the claim that the Democratic Party has always been like described in the quote is just incorrect.

Like I said on Facebook, I may be a fan of modern day Germany, but I wouldn't say that "Germany has always been a force for peace and tolerance in Europe". Only an idiot would say that.

I can't read what you say on Facebook because someone put me on their ignore list.  Truman was talking in the context of the late 1940's.  Truman was also the guy who desegregated the US army, and put the Democratic party on the path of desegregation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 18, 2016, 04:56:50 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 18, 2016, 04:35:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 18, 2016, 03:52:09 AM
That's just not true - the Democratic Party supported slavery so unless you consider blacks not wanting to be slaves a "special interest group", the claim that the Democratic Party has always been like described in the quote is just incorrect.

Like I said on Facebook, I may be a fan of modern day Germany, but I wouldn't say that "Germany has always been a force for peace and tolerance in Europe". Only an idiot would say that.

I can't read what you say on Facebook because someone put me on their ignore list.  Truman was talking in the context of the late 1940's.  Truman was also the guy who desegregated the US army, and put the Democratic party on the path of desegregation.

Then one shouldn't say 'It always has been and always will be.' I don't disagree with that statement but isn't something that I would be proudly championing if I had even a passing knowledge of the 19th century.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 18, 2016, 12:09:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 18, 2016, 03:52:09 AM
That's just not true - the Democratic Party supported slavery
Any statements tying history of racial relations to the party is bound to be a lie by half-truth.  Over the last 70 or so years, there has been a gradual but ultimately complete exchange between the parties.  Blacks went over to Democrats, and racists and segregationists went over to Republicans.  From the cynical point of view, if you judge only by political power gained, Republicans got the better end of the deal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 18, 2016, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 18, 2016, 03:52:09 AM
the Democratic Party supported slavery

The Democratic Party was the party that represented the 'Rights of the White Man' in the 19th century. Or at least that was their branding. Which you have to admit is good branding when only white men can vote.

But then they became the party of the immigrants in the north...and from there the party of the workers...and from there the leftist party. So branding and ideology changes over time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on February 18, 2016, 08:45:05 PM
Just from my own learning, "It always has been and always will be." is pretty much a ritual statement that is a rhetorical device used to undermine the emotion of the ritual.  It is fundamentally true, because it is true at that moment.  Rarely are ritual truths absolutely true.  It is the role of the ritual leader to steer the emotion and the direction of the ritual outcome.

More indication that Truman knew, at least on a gut level, what it took to be a leader.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
This time, from the official Daily Show blurb:

QuoteRoy Wood, Jr. investigates racism in the adult film industry, from degrading ethnic stereotypes to white women refusing to work with African-American men.

What the fuck? How is that racism?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 01:52:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
This time, from the official Daily Show blurb:

QuoteRoy Wood, Jr. investigates racism in the adult film industry, from degrading ethnic stereotypes to white women refusing to work with African-American men.

What the fuck? How is that racism?

How is it NOT?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2016, 01:54:35 AM
Soul brother too beaucoup.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:56:17 AM
So a woman can always say no and has full autonomy over her body - except when she refuses to have sex with a black guy - then she is racist?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on February 22, 2016, 02:04:52 AM
Quote from: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 01:52:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
This time, from the official Daily Show blurb:

QuoteRoy Wood, Jr. investigates racism in the adult film industry, from degrading ethnic stereotypes to white women refusing to work with African-American men.

What the fuck? How is that racism?

How is it NOT?

Black man on white woman porn seems to be made to be quite physically punishing.  I can understand why (white) women would want to avoid that line of work, just as some refuse to do other sex acts.

My moral outrage is that Asian men are never cast.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on February 22, 2016, 02:06:38 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:56:17 AM
So a woman can always say no and has full autonomy over her body - except when she refuses to have sex with a black guy - then she is racist?

Yes because the decision is based on race.  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:10:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:56:17 AM
So a woman can always say no and has full autonomy over her body - except when she refuses to have sex with a black guy - then she is racist?

Its her job.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:12:09 AM
Not every decision based on race is racist - especially when it comes to sexual attraction and intercourse where absolute autonomy of an individual has to be respected. Some people prefer members of their own race - others the opposite - neither is racism. Some people are attracted to younger partners and some to older - that is not ageism either. Some people like their partners slim, others plushy - that's not body shaming. Some people actually prefer to have sex with transgendered representatives of their prefered sex - others prefer cis partners - that's not transphobia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:13:30 AM
Quote from: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:10:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:56:17 AM
So a woman can always say no and has full autonomy over her body - except when she refuses to have sex with a black guy - then she is racist?

Its her job.

Err no. She has a right to refuse to have sex with anyone she wants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:16:42 AM
I wouldn't have sex with Oscar Pistorius - and this is a decision (but not discrimination) based purely on his disability which just makes him lack something I find attractive (he is hot though so if he had legs I wouldnt bat an eye or mind him being a murderer).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on February 22, 2016, 02:18:25 AM
I'll have sex with anyone: not racist

I'll have sex with that specific white dude, and that other specific white dude, and that Chinese dude: not enough info

I'll have sex with anyone but a black dude: racist
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:21:22 AM
Quote from: sbr on February 22, 2016, 02:18:25 AM
I'll have sex with anyone: not racist

I'll have sex with that specific white dude, and that other specific white dude, and that Chinese dude: not enough info

I'll have sex with anyone but a black dude: racist

No. I explained why already. And in the context of a porn industry it is actually more efficient for an actress to say she wouldn't have sex with a black guy than her going through 100 black actors to find one that she finds attractive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:23:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:13:30 AM
Quote from: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:10:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:56:17 AM
So a woman can always say no and has full autonomy over her body - except when she refuses to have sex with a black guy - then she is racist?

Its her job.

Err no. She has a right to refuse to have sex with anyone she wants.

Why? If my boss tells me my project partner is a black man, I don't have the right to refuse. Why should a white woman be able to demand extra pay for having to work with a black person? How is that not racist?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:24:30 AM
For the record, I wouldn't have sex with a male nurse either - not into fems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:24:59 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:16:42 AM
I wouldn't have sex with Oscar Pistorius - and this is a decision (but not discrimination) based purely on his disability which just makes him lack something I find attractive (he is hot though so if he had legs I wouldnt bat an eye or mind him being a murderer).

That is the very definition of discrimination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:25:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:24:30 AM
For the record, I wouldn't have sex with a male nurse either - not into fems.

It's nice to know you draw a line somewhere...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:27:23 AM
Quote from: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:23:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:13:30 AM
Quote from: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:10:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:56:17 AM
So a woman can always say no and has full autonomy over her body - except when she refuses to have sex with a black guy - then she is racist?

Its her job.

Err no. She has a right to refuse to have sex with anyone she wants.

Why? If my boss tells me my project partner is a black man, I don't have the right to refuse. Why should a white woman be able to demand extra pay for having to work with a black person? How is that not racist?

In porn industry you always have the right to refuse. Otherwise it's rape - signing a porn actor/actress contract does not give up a blanket consent to have sex with anyone.  :huh:

And as I said, if a woman generally is not into black guys (even if on an off chance may find one attractive), then from the job efficiency perspective it is better for her to stipulate it upfront than just reject every black guy on an individual basis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2016, 02:28:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:21:22 AM

No. I explained why already. And in the context of a porn industry it is actually more efficient for an actress to say she wouldn't have sex with a black guy than her going through 100 black actors to find one that she finds attractive.

WTF does finding someone attractive have to do with it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:28:42 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:27:23 AM
Quote from: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:23:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:13:30 AM
Quote from: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 02:10:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 01:56:17 AM
So a woman can always say no and has full autonomy over her body - except when she refuses to have sex with a black guy - then she is racist?

Its her job.

Err no. She has a right to refuse to have sex with anyone she wants.

Why? If my boss tells me my project partner is a black man, I don't have the right to refuse. Why should a white woman be able to demand extra pay for having to work with a black person? How is that not racist?

In porn industry you always have the right to refuse. Otherwise it's rape - signing a porn actor/actress contract does not give up a blanket consent to have sex with anyone.  :huh:

And as I said, if a woman generally is not into black guys (even if on an off chance may find one attractive), then from the job efficiency perspective it is better for her to stipulate it upfront than just reject every black guy on an individual basis.

By what right does she demand extra pay to sleep with black people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 02:32:22 AM
She doesn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 22, 2016, 02:48:49 AM
I'm not convinced that Mart understands what porn is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 03:24:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 22, 2016, 02:48:49 AM
I'm not convinced that Mart understands what porn is.

It's either that or he doesn't know what a women does during sex.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 03:37:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 03:24:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 22, 2016, 02:48:49 AM
I'm not convinced that Mart understands what porn is.

It's either that or he doesn't know what a women does during sex.

Explain.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 04:06:12 AM
:( poor Marbas
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 04:09:47 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 03:37:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 03:24:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 22, 2016, 02:48:49 AM
I'm not convinced that Mart understands what porn is.

It's either that or he doesn't know what a women does during sex.

Explain.


Women don't actually have to be aroused to engage in sexual intercourse.  She can just sit there like a log and not actually do anything.  A pornographic actress engages in sexual acts not because they are attracted to their co-worker or are stimulated but because they are paid.  They don't have dinner and movie before sexual congress.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2016, 04:10:47 AM
They often fake orgasm too. :secret:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 04:16:38 AM
Wow, Raz laying out how sex works. Now I've seen every damn thing on this forum.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 04:19:45 AM
Quote from: Jaron on February 22, 2016, 04:16:38 AM
Wow, Raz laying out how sex works. Now I've seen every damn thing on this forum.

Don't make me demonstrate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 22, 2016, 04:41:31 AM
A porn actress is not obligated to sleep with anyone, no matter how many others she has slept with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 05:29:35 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 22, 2016, 04:41:31 AM
A porn actress is not obligated to sleep with anyone, no matter how many others she has slept with.

Nobody needs to go to sleep, but if she signed a contract and was paid to perform then failure to preform is a breach of contract.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 22, 2016, 05:59:02 AM
A contract that stipulates she will have sex with unspecified men not of her choosing is probably illegal and if not, it should be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 06:04:17 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 22, 2016, 05:59:02 AM
A contract that stipulates she will have sex with unspecified men not of her choosing is probably illegal and if not, it should be.

I will be interested in what US lawtalkers say, but if I were to bet, I'd say a contract like this would be almost certainly unenforceable. I assume the actress would not be paid if she refuses to have sex but it would not be a breach of contract.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Monoriu on February 22, 2016, 06:10:22 AM
I don't even think it is necessary to force a porn actress to have sex with a certain male or groups of males in the first place.  I assume that most consumers of porn are there because of the girls, and can't care less about who the guys are.  Having a male partner that is repulsive to the girl will certainly destroy her performance.  So I think it is in everybody's interest to find a male partner that is at least acceptable to the girl. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 22, 2016, 06:15:32 AM
This discussion appears to be all over the place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2016, 06:42:44 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 22, 2016, 06:15:32 AM
This discussion appears to be all over the place.

No kidding.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 22, 2016, 07:35:49 AM
AFAIK the way contracts in porn work is that the performers agree previously in what will take place in the scene they're going to shoot, and they have a list of things they will agree to perform and things they won't perform under any circumstance, so an actress can say "I won't do anal, I won't do BDSM, I won't do group sex", whatever, but I doubt she can say "I won't perform with a black actor". Then again it is in the interest of everyone involved in the production that the performers have good chemistry, so if one of them is really turned off by the other that's an issue that will have to be solved.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 22, 2016, 08:17:42 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 05:29:35 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 22, 2016, 04:41:31 AM
A porn actress is not obligated to sleep with anyone, no matter how many others she has slept with.

Nobody needs to go to sleep, but if she signed a contract and was paid to perform then failure to preform is a breach of contract.

Huh. Are you some kind of expert on the porn industry now? Because I don't think it works that way.

Besides these days all you need to get erotic content out there is a webcam.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 22, 2016, 10:09:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2016, 08:17:42 AM
Besides these days all you need to get erotic content out there is a webcam.

Don't flatter yourself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 22, 2016, 10:13:37 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 22, 2016, 10:09:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2016, 08:17:42 AM
Besides these days all you need to get erotic content out there is a webcam.

Don't flatter yourself.

Hey somebody would find it hot. People are sick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 22, 2016, 11:31:41 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 04:09:47 AM
Women don't actually have to be aroused to engage in sexual intercourse.  She can just sit there like a log and not actually do anything.
Hey, that's my pick up line!  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 05:24:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2016, 08:17:42 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 05:29:35 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 22, 2016, 04:41:31 AM
A porn actress is not obligated to sleep with anyone, no matter how many others she has slept with.

Nobody needs to go to sleep, but if she signed a contract and was paid to perform then failure to preform is a breach of contract.

Huh. Are you some kind of expert on the porn industry now? Because I don't think it works that way.

Besides these days all you need to get erotic content out there is a webcam.

No, but I understand what a contract is.  If a non-pornographic actress signs a contract to be in a non-pornographic film and then refuses to preform in scenes involving black people, how should that be seen?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 22, 2016, 05:26:33 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 05:24:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2016, 08:17:42 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 05:29:35 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 22, 2016, 04:41:31 AM
A porn actress is not obligated to sleep with anyone, no matter how many others she has slept with.

Nobody needs to go to sleep, but if she signed a contract and was paid to perform then failure to preform is a breach of contract.

Huh. Are you some kind of expert on the porn industry now? Because I don't think it works that way.

Besides these days all you need to get erotic content out there is a webcam.

No, but I understand what a contract is.  If a non-pornographic actress signs a contract to be in a non-pornographic film and then refuses to preform in scenes involving black people, how should that be seen?

I don't know. What does a porn vid without people having sex look like?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 05:29:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 22, 2016, 05:26:33 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 05:24:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2016, 08:17:42 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2016, 05:29:35 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 22, 2016, 04:41:31 AM
A porn actress is not obligated to sleep with anyone, no matter how many others she has slept with.

Nobody needs to go to sleep, but if she signed a contract and was paid to perform then failure to preform is a breach of contract.

Huh. Are you some kind of expert on the porn industry now? Because I don't think it works that way.

Besides these days all you need to get erotic content out there is a webcam.

No, but I understand what a contract is.  If a non-pornographic actress signs a contract to be in a non-pornographic film and then refuses to preform in scenes involving black people, how should that be seen?

I don't know. What does a porn vid without people having sex look like?

Probably like people not having sex.  Why are you asking me that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 22, 2016, 05:33:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 22, 2016, 05:26:33 PM
I don't know. What does a porn vid without people having sex look like?

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b38551b480/girls-gone-wild-presents-pg-pornstars-100-sfw-porn?_cc=__d___&_ccid=e3e18e36f2229a93 (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b38551b480/girls-gone-wild-presents-pg-pornstars-100-sfw-porn?_cc=__d___&_ccid=e3e18e36f2229a93)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 22, 2016, 05:39:03 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 22, 2016, 05:33:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 22, 2016, 05:26:33 PM
I don't know. What does a porn vid without people having sex look like?

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b38551b480/girls-gone-wild-presents-pg-pornstars-100-sfw-porn?_cc=__d___&_ccid=e3e18e36f2229a93 (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b38551b480/girls-gone-wild-presents-pg-pornstars-100-sfw-porn?_cc=__d___&_ccid=e3e18e36f2229a93)

That doesn't seem work appropriate and that is a most unsanitary way to mix a salad!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 22, 2016, 05:40:21 PM
Not to mention, that salad is almost completely lettuce. Bo-ring.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 23, 2016, 03:04:38 AM
Squee!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 23, 2016, 02:54:52 PM
This showed up on my facebook.

QuoteDear Friends,

The District Attorney is aggressively prosecuting four Land Action organizers for their involvement in a recent adverse possession project. There are seven criminal charges, including three felony counts and four misdemeanors. Contrary to established precedent from similar cases in Oakland in recent years, the District Attorney (DA) has deliberately, and in violation of the law, pushed this civil dispute into criminal court.

Why?

The case was brought to the DA's attention because the property's owner of record was personally connected to the DA's office. By taking advantage of this backdoor connection, the owner persuaded the DA to drastically overreach its jurisdiction and intervene on the owner's behalf.

What's more, the DA's keen interest in Land Action is politically motivated. The DA is aware of Land Action's significant victories in recent years around squat law and adverse possession. By dragging Land Action through the mud, the DA intends to discourage the practice of adverse possession. Adverse possession, enshrined in the legal code of all 50 States, is a time-honored legal mechanism as old as property law itself. It allows people with very little capital to acquire full ownership of real property, which makes it antithetical to the ruling-class agenda of keeping working people enmeshed in the cycle of rent-wage-exploitation.

In short, the DA is defending the commonly held belief that home ownership should be very, extremely, prohibitively expensive—a perception that plays right into the interests of capital.

The DA's aggressive prosecution of Land Action's organizers is occurring at a time when local government has developed exceedingly cozy relations with gentrifying forces. Last year, Oakland City Council came under fire for offering a luxury housing developer the acre-sized 12th Street Remainder Parcel for much less than its market value. In a confidential memo, the City Attorney informed the Council that state law requires them to first offer surplus land to low-income housing agencies, park agencies, school districts, and other entities that serve the public interest. But against the advice of their own attorney, the Council proceeded with their illegal plan, which was already underway when the City Attorney's memo was leaked to the East Bay Express. Only then did public scrutiny force the Council to bring their actions into compliance with state law.

Local government is all too willing to disregard the law in the service of Capital and at the expense of the poor. The DA has aligned itself with this agenda, using public funding to defend the property interests of the land-holding class. The DA has chosen to flout the very laws it is charged with upholding, for the sake of consolidating property rights and maintaining access barriers to home ownership. IT IS TIME TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE!!!

Please come pack the courthouse with us for our initial hearing!

And an old news article about this in Oakland:
http://kalw.org/post/legal-grey-area-west-oakland-resident-discovers-free-house#stream/0

QuoteLike everywhere in the Bay Area, home prices in Oakland have recently gone through the roof. The price of a house there is up almost 70% in the past two years. But West Oakland resident Steve DeCaprio has discovered an unusual way to acquire a home for free. DeCaprio has become an expert in finding and taking over abandoned homes – and it's not as illegal as it might sound.

From the outside, DeCaprio's house looks like a lot of the homes you might see in West Oakland. It's stucco, split into two apartments, and has a chain-link fence in the front yard. His could maybe use a paint job.  DeCaprio is in his early 40s. By day he has a part-time job at the California League of Conservation Voters, by night he plays with his black-metal band. But mostly, he spends a lot of time on his house.

"This is still a work in progress," says DeCaprio.

Part of the second floor doesn't have a ceiling -- the plumbing had to be replaced when a fire melted the sewer line -- and the electricity and gas are off the grid.

"And we actually redid all the electrical," DeCaprio explains. "It's all brand new up to code."

But, DeCaprio says, the city wouldn't issue the permits so they can't connect to PG&E. Because even though he has basically built this house back up from scratch over the past 14 years, he doesn't technically own it – at least not on paper.

"They said, 'You're a bunch of squatters [and] we don't issue permits to squatters,'" recalls DeCaprio.

Squatting is when you live in a building that initially isn't yours without asking anyone. And that's exactly what DeCaprio and his housemates are doing. But, he says the law is on his side. In California, in some cases, if you squat a building long enough, it's yours.

"You occupy a property for five years, you pay the [property] taxes and then you own it."

The legal name for this is 'adverse possession.' And don't break out your crowbar just yet, there are actually a lot more rules than that. Like it has to be your sole residence and, as DeCaprio explains, "It has to be open, notorious. You know, not sneaking in, sneaking out."

It's a confusing legal grey area. But it's worth it to DeCaprio. For him, it's partially political: he doesn't like having to answer to banks and corporations.

"And this is the beauty of squatting, is to stop acknowledging their authority," he says.

And it's partially practical:  he doesn't have a lot of money and he needs a place to live.

That's how he started his squatting odyssey. Back in 2000, after he had been touring with his band in Europe and staying in squats there, he found himself back in the Bay without a home and decided to try it here. Here's how he got into his current home:

Step 1. He said that he went around the East Bay "...block by block, finding houses that looked abandoned." Houses with their windows boarded up, with the utilities completely off, or maybe a tree going through the roof, like this one did. DeCaprio says he found at least a dozen buildings like this.

Step 2. Research. He found out "what the backstory [was] with each house." He learned that his house had been empty for decades.

Step 3. He tried to contact the person who, technically, owned the building. That man had been dead since 1982. "And the whole idea is that once all of our research indicated that there was nobody interested in the property then we would..."

Step 4. "Enter it." This was the first house he entered.

But just because you're in a house doesn't mean you're home free. DeCaprio has run into problems with the police before at a different squat in 2004, in South Berkeley. You can see a clip of him tussling with a Berkeley Police sergeant about the definition of the law in the 2008 documentary Shelter: A Squatumentary by director Hannah Dobbz. The neighbors there knew he was a squatter, and they didn't like it. They said he was trespassing and kept calling the police on him. DeCaprio countered by saying, "In California and under most laws, you can't trespass on abandoned property. It's an oxymoron."

But the police still kept kicking him out.

"You know they'd board it up, and then I'd come back with, like, a hammer," DeCaprio recalls. "And then they welded the storm door shut with, with an arc welder and then I came back with a can of WD-40 and a Dremel with a diamond blade. And that's when they, that's when they finally were like 'Enough's enough, you're going to jail.'"

DeCaprio still wouldn't give up. He hit the books, learned property law and represented himself in court. Eventually, an heir to the house's original owner was found and DeCaprio was found guilty by a judge of trespassing. But even then, he continued squatting and he continued studying. There are documents all over his bedroom.

"I have a whole filing cabinet full of my own personal lawsuits," says DeCaprio. "Probably the prudent thing would have been just to back away, but I was so angry."

Even though he lost the Berkeley house, his current house is on track to be his.

"I've been here for over a decade, and I've paid all the property taxes," DeCaprio says. "So I have adverse possession times two."

But the last time he went in front of a judge to get it transferred to his name, the judge was not convinced. He told DeCaprio to find an heir – and he may have found one – but he didn't want to give his house away.

"Because no one who was even remotely related to the person who used to own this house even knows that this house exists. Who cares about this house? Nobody but me. Nobody cares about this house except for me."

And in a way, he's right. At least according to local neighborhood association member Leslie Cleaver Wood: "Squatting is absolutely not an issue for us. I think, we welcome anyone in a home that's been vacant as long as it's, again, safe, and good neighbors."

And Margaretta Lin from Oakland's Department of Housing and Community Development said by phone that her department only gets involved in cases of blight. Ownership, she says, is an issue for the police and the courts.

Since he started squatting, he has had to bone up on so much property law that he is on his way to passing the bar exam.

"If and when I pass the bar," DeCaprio explains, "I would most likely be the only attorney that specializes in squatting."

And in the meantime, he has founded an organization called Land Action to help give the resources to other squatters to help them defend themselves, just like he did. DeCaprio says if he had it his way, there'd be millions of squatters all over the country.

But sometimes, DeCaprio made me think that for him, it almost isn't even about the buildings, it's about the challenge.

"Yea, I'll get this house completely, it'll be totally be decked out, we'll have a hot tub in the backyard, everything will be perfect and I'll say, 'Alright, let's move...Projects over...Let's leave the fruit on the vine.'"

Because there's always going to be another building to fix up and another judge to fight.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 24, 2016, 06:18:50 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/849_10206089881103070_4549971157319142710_n.jpg?oh=cf1d228396f7fd6a861757d1600e3373&oe=576BAD6A)

Facebook is really the next level for bumper sticker political debate. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 24, 2016, 06:24:36 AM
Hey I can spell Jews. :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 24, 2016, 06:33:29 AM
Needs complaints about the sagging pants look.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffunny-pictures-blog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F09%2FSagging-Pants.jpg&hash=3cfeb8316318ca93a0ef3df4af25598be84949c2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 24, 2016, 01:29:56 PM
I find it weird that it's still in fashion.  People were doing that when I was in middle school.  That was two decades ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 24, 2016, 01:33:38 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 24, 2016, 01:29:56 PM
I find it weird that it's still in fashion.  People were doing that when I was in middle school.  That was two decades ago.

Now it is a tradition. They are wearing their pants the same way their fathers did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 24, 2016, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 24, 2016, 01:29:56 PM
I find it weird that it's still in fashion.  People were doing that when I was in middle school.  That was two decades ago.

Indeed, it has been curiously lasting - considering it is a fashion that makes anyone adopting it look more than slightly 'intellectually challenged'.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 24, 2016, 01:53:45 PM
I never knew how you were suppose to keep them from falling around your ankles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 24, 2016, 01:59:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 24, 2016, 01:29:56 PM
I find it weird that it's still in fashion.  People were doing that when I was in middle school.  That was two decades ago.

I'm pretty sure it was against my school's dress code.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 24, 2016, 02:31:50 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 24, 2016, 01:59:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 24, 2016, 01:29:56 PM
I find it weird that it's still in fashion.  People were doing that when I was in middle school.  That was two decades ago.

I'm pretty sure it was against my school's dress code.

One day in 5th grade, our teachers had a kid who always wore his pants like that, run down the hallway to see if he could manage to keep them up without holding with his hands. Predictably he failed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 24, 2016, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 24, 2016, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 24, 2016, 01:29:56 PM
I find it weird that it's still in fashion.  People were doing that when I was in middle school.  That was two decades ago.

Indeed, it has been curiously lasting - considering it is a fashion that makes anyone adopting it look more than slightly 'intellectually challenged'.  :lol:

Punk early 80s style is still going strong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 24, 2016, 02:46:32 PM
Through evolution, generations that wear their pants like that will probably end up having elongated spines and short legs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 24, 2016, 03:26:42 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 24, 2016, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 24, 2016, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 24, 2016, 01:29:56 PM
I find it weird that it's still in fashion.  People were doing that when I was in middle school.  That was two decades ago.

Indeed, it has been curiously lasting - considering it is a fashion that makes anyone adopting it look more than slightly 'intellectually challenged'.  :lol:

Punk early 80s style is still going strong.

True, but punk gear (a) doesn't make you look like a total moron, and (b) doesn't actually obstruct your ability to move. I can accept the sense of fashions that do either (a) or (b) (hell, lots of women wear heels they can't actually run in, just to look sexy), but not ones that do both!  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 24, 2016, 09:03:52 PM
Trumpites are increasing on my FB feed.  Getting more of this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 26, 2016, 01:30:53 AM
This
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 26, 2016, 01:34:48 AM
 :pinch:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 26, 2016, 03:32:29 AM
It's not too big.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 26, 2016, 03:39:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-0/p403x403/12717903_1164116853606833_3986524091385940531_n.jpg?oh=a845b7a7ba582f05f1591026e0dab39e&oe=57637ACD)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/12670610_216291852050252_1026372881627928731_n.jpg?oh=1728229b5a52897dfeb852922db77ed6&oe=575537EE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 26, 2016, 03:47:08 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 26, 2016, 03:32:29 AM
It's not too big.

Yeah it's about the standard size of my cat toys.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 26, 2016, 04:20:53 AM
Man, Lettow doesn't post shit like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 26, 2016, 04:15:58 PM
:hmm:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 26, 2016, 04:26:49 PM
I think most people who say things like "(color) people do this" are being somewhat racist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 26, 2016, 04:27:23 PM
I don't think any of those things.

But I guess they just said 'White People' meaning more than one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 26, 2016, 04:33:10 PM
I need a safe space now. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 26, 2016, 05:03:18 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 26, 2016, 04:26:49 PM
I think most people who say things like "(color) people do this" are being somewhat racist.

See now that's something a white person would say. 

And check your privilege & stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 26, 2016, 05:06:36 PM
Even worse IMO is the Razgovory definite article: the blacks, the Jews, the Republicans, the Libertarians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 26, 2016, 05:55:14 PM
Sounds positively French. :x
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 26, 2016, 08:17:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 26, 2016, 05:06:36 PM
Even worse IMO is the Razgovory definite article: the blacks, the Jews, the Republicans, the Libertarians.

Buh?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 27, 2016, 11:33:48 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12799344_1127540720601125_1918333919459964582_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=61a792cd664e3b763c4d4732dd72c188&oe=5765C405)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 28, 2016, 12:19:23 AM
Well, I suppose Fox did something right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 28, 2016, 02:31:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2016, 04:27:23 PM
I don't think any of those things.

But I guess they just said 'White People' meaning more than one.

So the converse: "Black people think Donald Trump is racist, but they will convince themselves that Beyonce is just expressing herself" is also a fine thing to say?

To me both are generalisations based on race that seem unsupported by any evidence - i.e. what racism is all about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 28, 2016, 02:41:43 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 28, 2016, 02:31:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2016, 04:27:23 PM
I don't think any of those things.

But I guess they just said 'White People' meaning more than one.

So the converse: "Black people think Donald Trump is racist, but they will convince themselves that Beyonce is just expressing herself" is also a fine thing to say?

To me both are generalisations based on race that seem unsupported by any evidence - i.e. what racism is all about.

Well if more than one Black person thinks that than at least you are saying a factually true statement :P

But of course what you say.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 28, 2016, 02:50:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2016, 02:41:43 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 28, 2016, 02:31:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2016, 04:27:23 PM
I don't think any of those things.

But I guess they just said 'White People' meaning more than one.

So the converse: "Black people think Donald Trump is racist, but they will convince themselves that Beyonce is just expressing herself" is also a fine thing to say?

To me both are generalisations based on race that seem unsupported by any evidence - i.e. what racism is all about.

Well if more than one Black person thinks that than at least you are saying a factually true statement :P

But of course what you say.

Then say "some" or "there are white people who think". Of course then you lose the racially charged stupid impact. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on February 29, 2016, 02:27:23 AM
So, my Facebook feed is now inundated by leftists reposting a gawker video proving that Trump is a horrible human being who mocks people with disabilities and puts down "widely regarded women". Evidence? He told Larry King in the 1980s that he has bad breath and said that Kim Kardashian has a big ass. The tribalism of this shit disgusts me. I hope Trump wins, so those fuckers can cry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 29, 2016, 09:30:53 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 29, 2016, 02:27:23 AM
So, my Facebook feed is now inundated by leftists reposting a gawker video proving that Trump is a horrible human being who mocks people with disabilities and puts down "widely regarded women". Evidence? He told Larry King in the 1980s that he has bad breath and said that Kim Kardashian has a big ass. The tribalism of this shit disgusts me. I hope Trump wins, so those fuckers can cry.

Now you understand how American politics works!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Brazen on March 02, 2016, 06:36:07 AM
Paul Daniels, a popular TV magician in the 80s and 90s, has been diagnosed with a terminal brain tumour. An overtly religious FB friend posted that she'd donated to this GoFundMe site. Nothing suspicious about this at all, like the grammar, spelling and the fact no actual charities or causes have been identified...

https://www.gofundme.com/pauldanielsmagic (https://www.gofundme.com/pauldanielsmagic)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn541%2FBerenice67%2FPD_zpsl2donrod.png&hash=09229ff6ac8f1305a58d73524c4f3fc2083a462a)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 02, 2016, 09:28:52 AM
It's nice to help other people. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 02, 2016, 09:41:33 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 28, 2016, 02:31:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2016, 04:27:23 PM
I don't think any of those things.

But I guess they just said 'White People' meaning more than one.

So the converse: "Black people think Donald Trump is racist, but they will convince themselves that Beyonce is just expressing herself" is also a fine thing to say?

To me both are generalisations based on race that seem unsupported by any evidence - i.e. what racism is all about.

FWIW she removed that post from her FB wall within hours of posting it.  Either someone pointed out the irony of appearing to generalize white people, or she thought better of it herself.  She's a sweet girl and and I'm sure didn't mean anything bad by it, but she's been bruised by some experiences (microaggressions, I guess) as a Puerto Rican gal living in Kentucky.  So she sometimes posts silly things like that out of frustration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 02, 2016, 03:32:07 PM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11990649_10206478391890932_7649569401724920612_n.jpg?oh=1fea43c4e9372eb7d9b08de8cb8b83d5&oe=5767ACB5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 02, 2016, 03:34:47 PM
Thnx sharing now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 03, 2016, 07:25:29 AM
Oh good. Facebook told me that today 12 years ago, I first joined facebook. Then it showed me a bunch of posted photos from the last 3 years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 03, 2016, 07:40:37 AM
Oh also starting to see more commentary appearing that Bernie would be winning if it weren't for 'pesky' black voters. <_<
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on March 03, 2016, 07:46:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 03, 2016, 07:40:37 AM
Oh also starting to see more commentary appearing that Bernie would be winning if it weren't for 'pesky' black voters. <_<

Young voters. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 03, 2016, 08:55:14 AM
QuoteFascinating to see corporate media acknowledge that both parties plan to rig the conventions to ensure their best puppet carries on US Empire. FOX is the only network to cover how Dem elites won't let Bernie win & MSNBC/CNN are all over how GOP elites are planning a coup against Trump.

Less crazy analysis than usual. A contact of a contact, so I am cheating a bit.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on March 03, 2016, 12:16:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 03, 2016, 07:40:37 AM
Oh also starting to see more commentary appearing that Bernie would be winning if it weren't for 'pesky' black voters. <_<
y'all anti Semites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 03, 2016, 01:14:57 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMlpfwSq.png&hash=55625d35f58f7ebd7c0c44c6cba371bcfc13acf9)

Thanks Methuen Mono :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 03, 2016, 06:50:34 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/12821640_10206247149446138_2133204391568713258_n.jpg?oh=40ce57232370ae7a79a2c1a1e3557e8d&oe=575B1298)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 03, 2016, 06:51:54 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on March 03, 2016, 06:55:51 PM
I like that one  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 04, 2016, 09:34:07 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12806009_1045689515502331_4459451723036565893_n.jpg?oh=a1566a4111d00f9ade4eac7ff903627d&oe=576A9D9C)

Woah
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 04, 2016, 09:35:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 03, 2016, 06:50:34 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/12821640_10206247149446138_2133204391568713258_n.jpg?oh=40ce57232370ae7a79a2c1a1e3557e8d&oe=575B1298)

Hoegaarden is the path to hell.  'Tis true :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Archy on March 04, 2016, 03:54:23 PM
God hates Belgium :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 04, 2016, 04:37:51 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12376778_812452772199254_2230132528935659031_n.jpg?oh=9eba50561ecb5bad7b60f95754dac3af&oe=575E5B5E)

Tongue in cheek. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 04, 2016, 04:38:36 PM
I was kidding. I love Hoegaarden, or at least used to before AB InBev fucked up the recipe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 04, 2016, 05:03:52 PM
I might Bill but none are currently running :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 04, 2016, 05:11:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 04, 2016, 05:03:52 PM
I might Bill but none are currently running :weep:

Just vote for the candidate with the smallest hands.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 05, 2016, 12:53:05 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJgb0wxo.jpg&hash=0443b48e0e2679729fad72e9a9cfc75541ea818a)

From some libertarian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 08, 2016, 10:12:25 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12832575_1162601137091512_6158826306134126251_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=ecee25ecbd26a7042f125d6f748a60c1&oe=5796CFE9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 08, 2016, 10:14:52 PM
 ^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 08, 2016, 10:24:40 PM
That's pretty good  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 08, 2016, 11:18:28 PM
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on March 09, 2016, 12:48:38 AM
Bernie 2016 unless Romney 2016
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 09, 2016, 01:21:30 AM
Romney is still a psycho who leaves the dog on the roof and forcibly cuts gay kids' hair.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 09, 2016, 08:40:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 03, 2016, 07:25:29 AM
Oh good. Facebook told me that today 12 years ago, I first joined facebook. Then it showed me a bunch of posted photos from the last 3 years.

You were a stalk in the harvest of '04?  Me too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 09, 2016, 08:41:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 08, 2016, 10:24:40 PM
That's pretty good  :lol:

:mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 09, 2016, 08:46:49 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 09, 2016, 08:40:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 03, 2016, 07:25:29 AM
Oh good. Facebook told me that today 12 years ago, I first joined facebook. Then it showed me a bunch of posted photos from the last 3 years.

You were a stalk in the harvest of '04?  Me too.

Yep, Stanford was the 2nd place to get it after Harvard. I remember how sad my one friend was when it opened up to public universities. Never followed up to see how she felt when anyone could sign up. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 09, 2016, 09:24:04 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 09, 2016, 08:41:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 08, 2016, 10:24:40 PM
That's pretty good  :lol:

:mellow:

What? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 09, 2016, 10:09:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 09, 2016, 09:24:04 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on March 09, 2016, 08:41:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 08, 2016, 10:24:40 PM
That's pretty good  :lol:

:mellow:

What? :unsure:

I'm guessing it was Mihali's sign that got cut in half.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on March 09, 2016, 10:44:40 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 07, 2016, 03:13:33 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12472264_10207385197819755_6084636266417517570_n.jpg?oh=cc6224b7a1a506c38b0b8be2a4b05ae1&oe=57068382)

Ouch; it's bad enough that Linkin Park's guitarist plays PRS guitars. Those guitars can sing, but you wouldn't know it after all the digital crap the band puts them through. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on March 09, 2016, 10:46:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 04, 2016, 04:37:51 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12376778_812452772199254_2230132528935659031_n.jpg?oh=9eba50561ecb5bad7b60f95754dac3af&oe=575E5B5E)

Tongue in cheek. :)

:secret: I think "tongue" isn't the right word here... :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 09, 2016, 10:50:16 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12791000_10209033599136810_1579805265704958179_n.jpg?oh=0a1c428b6d5fd406a2f0dd13da5f95e7&oe=575F769B)

Though now that I am becoming an investor in Austin's future growth maybe I should start to change my tune :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 09, 2016, 11:33:39 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 09, 2016, 10:09:46 AM
I'm guessing it was Mihali's sign that got cut in half.

:rolleyes: Vermonters have had Bernie on the political scene since 1971 and in elected office for the past thirty years.  And with the same message, bless him, but his candidacy is no revelation.

Valmy -- it was pretty "on the nose" and not too funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on March 10, 2016, 03:04:51 AM
Speaking of Facebook, I am not sure which is worse - that people actually give unrestricted access to their profiles to these phishing "who-is-your-biggest-friend-if-you-were-an-animal-and-had-a-viking-name" apps, or that they then actually go on to post the result as if it was anything but a random algorithm. Human stupidity is astounding.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on March 10, 2016, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 10, 2016, 03:04:51 AM
Speaking of Facebook, I am not sure which is worse - that people actually give unrestricted access to their profiles to these phishing "who-is-your-biggest-friend-if-you-were-an-animal-and-had-a-viking-name" apps, or that they then actually go on to post the result as if it was anything but a random algorithm. Human stupidity is astounding.

I got German Environment Minister Sigmar Gabriel, who made me a mascot for a conference on endangered species. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 10, 2016, 05:03:34 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 10, 2016, 03:04:51 AM
Speaking of Facebook, I am not sure which is worse - that people actually give unrestricted access to their profiles to these phishing "who-is-your-biggest-friend-if-you-were-an-animal-and-had-a-viking-name" apps, or that they then actually go on to post the result as if it was anything but a random algorithm. Human stupidity is astounding.
I don't think they truly believe it, they just find amusing what the app report.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on March 11, 2016, 03:29:20 AM
They are like those mad libs.

Martinus walked into the purple shoe and ate a can of fuzzy condoms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on March 11, 2016, 05:49:35 AM
Quote from: Jaron on March 11, 2016, 03:29:20 AM
They are like those mad libs.

Of course.

Quote
Martinus walked into the purple shoe and ate a can of fuzzy condoms.

:unsure: He didn't..?  Unless "Fioletowy Buty" is all rough trade these days...and not a place to meet leeching Jew queens, I mean.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on March 11, 2016, 08:15:24 AM
 :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 11, 2016, 08:43:26 AM
The Purple Shoe is actually a thrift shop in North Carolina. They discontinued the fuzzy condoms after Marty's antics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 11, 2016, 09:32:47 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 16, 2016, 09:42:39 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 16, 2016, 09:52:37 AM
Works better without the Obama dig.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 16, 2016, 03:52:27 PM
 :showoff:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 23, 2016, 08:46:27 AM
So close :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 23, 2016, 09:13:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2016, 08:46:27 AM
So close :(

That might work if one of the complaints of Sanders's supporters didn't happen to be a lack of jobs. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 23, 2016, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2016, 08:46:27 AM
So close :(

Apparently, none of those jobs involved proofreading.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 24, 2016, 09:31:14 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/1934657_10153394547485759_2094653505495980592_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=ebd31f93fcb93090f49e0da3285317b2&oe=577A18CB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 30, 2016, 11:53:13 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12122517_10209445557802794_5710424132337444643_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=74bf0b08f58955ddfc153109aa0e5486&oe=57746CA8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 01, 2016, 03:16:20 PM
British police, being Orwellian:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce9FfcmWwAANHoX.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 01, 2016, 03:20:22 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 01, 2016, 03:16:20 PM
British police, being Orwellian:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce9FfcmWwAANHoX.jpg)

Well, that about eliminates Languish.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2016, 03:21:53 PM
Every think I say on Languish is:

True
Harmless
Legal
Necessary
Kind

THLNK is what I do before every post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2016, 03:27:48 PM
Nothing posted here or on 99% of the internet is "necessary".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2016, 03:30:44 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 01, 2016, 03:27:48 PM
Nothing posted here or on 99% of the internet is "necessary".

Well I think the question is "necessary for what?"

And the answer is "necessary to keep Languish from dying".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 01, 2016, 04:55:25 PM
So before posting here one has to consider if it's true hurtful and remember it's illegal to post something that's unnecessarily kind?  :languish:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 01, 2016, 04:57:03 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 01, 2016, 04:55:25 PM
So before posting here one has to consider if it's true hurtful and remember it's illegal to post something that's unnecessarily kind?  :languish:

Languish is a very font of unnecessary kindness.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 01, 2016, 05:01:33 PM
I want to thank you for making this post necessary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2016, 07:15:48 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 01, 2016, 04:57:03 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 01, 2016, 04:55:25 PM
So before posting here one has to consider if it's true hurtful and remember it's illegal to post something that's unnecessarily kind?  :languish:

Languish is a very font of unnecessary kindness.  :D

Why Malthus you are making good posts today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 02, 2016, 01:04:37 AM
This missed the tweet of the police, by the way:

https://twitter.com/GreaterGlasgPol/status/715867273261662208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

"Think before you post or you may receive a visit from us this weekend. Use the internet safely. #thinkbeforeyoupost"

:ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 02, 2016, 10:04:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 01, 2016, 03:21:53 PM
Every think I say on Languish is:

True
Harmless
Legal
Necessary
Kind

THLNK is what I do before every post.

When it comes to Languish, just ask yourself your posts are--

Stupid
Crass
Rude
Obtuse
Thickheaded
Unnecessary
Mean

And if not, go back and make sure they are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on April 04, 2016, 08:25:06 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwp.production.patheos.com%2Fblogs%2Fprogressivesecularhumanist%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F04%2Frelatives1.png&hash=185af36e2522ad41bd53b2af594a1b577891e26f)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2016, 09:56:58 PM
You know I can forgive the actual people of 1860. They had built their social system upon a horrible institution and built up an elaborate system to justify and rationalize it. They insisted the Fifth Amendment said that they could take their property everywhere, and the Supreme Court reinforced this with the Dred Scott decision. Uprooting the entire social order and attacking the economic bases of a society are going to stir deep resentment and hostility.

But these modern Neo-Confederates? It is amazing what kind of mental hoops you have to jump through to be in favor of that cause now. You pretty much have to disregard the entirety of the primary sources from the era and insist that things nobody said were the real cause of the war.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on April 04, 2016, 09:59:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2016, 09:56:58 PM
You know I can forgive the actual people of 1860. They had built their social system upon a horrible institution and built up an elaborate system to justify and rationalize it. They insisted the Fifth Amendment said that they could take their property everywhere, and the Supreme Court reinforced this with the Dred Scott decision. Uprooting the entire social order and attacking the economic bases of a society are going to stir deep resentment and hostility.

But these modern Neo-Confederates? It is amazing what kind of mental hoops you have to jump through to be in favor of that cause now. You pretty much have to disregard the entirety of the primary sources from the era and insist that things nobody said were the real cause of the war.

There is one (at least) line of thinking that doesn't require any mental gymnastics or hoop jumping at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 05, 2016, 11:52:59 AM
Quote from: sbr on April 04, 2016, 09:59:48 PM
There is one (at least) line of thinking that doesn't require any mental gymnastics or hoop jumping at all.

Well that as well. I have a hard time not having a visceral reaction to those people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 05, 2016, 11:53:21 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/12938153_1092991237390545_4617559686042348110_n.jpg?oh=f3eef9858cc5fdcbabf74b2ea37885b5&oe=5772A2C0)

Speaking of which my cousin posted this on FB today  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 05, 2016, 12:07:31 PM
Pretty sure this guy isn't racist (as in not white separatist racist), so I have a feeling he may not have scrutinized this too much when he decided to post this with his normal 50 daily posts...

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 05, 2016, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2016, 12:07:31 PM
Pretty sure this guy isn't racist (as in not white separatist racist), so I have a feeling he may not have scrutinized this too much when he decided to post this with his normal 50 daily posts...

Isn't the answer "March through January"? :P

It's like people complaining about there being no "Straight Pride Marches". I think people dislike identity politics, and admittedly in the West in particular (and this is something that is a bit difficult for me as a Pole because I would still like us to be more like the West a bit, but the backlash from the West is already coming here) because right now in the West most stuff is about class but people still think it is about something else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 05, 2016, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 05, 2016, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2016, 12:07:31 PM
Pretty sure this guy isn't racist (as in not white separatist racist), so I have a feeling he may not have scrutinized this too much when he decided to post this with his normal 50 daily posts...

Isn't the answer "March through January"? :P

Yes. Thank you captain obvious :P

And it is wrong anyway. There are numerous European heritage events throughout the year if you just need that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 05, 2016, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 05, 2016, 12:40:41 PM
And it is wrong anyway. There are numerous European heritage events throughout the year if you just need that sort of thing.

I like how they often confuse foreigners.  Like with Cinco de Mayo not being that huge of a deal in Mexico, Northern Germans being annoyed by Bavarian-type celebrations, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 05, 2016, 01:46:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 05, 2016, 12:40:41 PM


Yes. Thank you captain obvious :P

And it is wrong anyway. There are numerous European heritage events throughout the year if you just need that sort of thing.

Hey, if you are Jewish, you get a day(s) celebrating your near-extinction as your particular bit of European heritage event. Yay. :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_Memorial_Days
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 05, 2016, 07:44:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 05, 2016, 11:53:21 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/12938153_1092991237390545_4617559686042348110_n.jpg?oh=f3eef9858cc5fdcbabf74b2ea37885b5&oe=5772A2C0)

Speaking of which my cousin posted this on FB today  :P

Motherfucking awesome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on April 05, 2016, 08:13:25 PM
+2
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 05, 2016, 08:23:21 PM
I just sent it to my favorite Bulldog grad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 05, 2016, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2016, 12:07:31 PM
Pretty sure this guy isn't racist (as in not white separatist racist), so I have a feeling he may not have scrutinized this too much when he decided to post this with his normal 50 daily posts...

Yeah the white power fist is not something you want to put up there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on April 06, 2016, 04:19:48 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 05, 2016, 07:44:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 05, 2016, 11:53:21 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/12938153_1092991237390545_4617559686042348110_n.jpg?oh=f3eef9858cc5fdcbabf74b2ea37885b5&oe=5772A2C0)

Speaking of which my cousin posted this on FB today  :P

Motherfucking awesome.

I needed Wikipedia's help to understand it but in my defense it was very American.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on April 06, 2016, 09:11:41 AM
No one expects you to know how Sherman looked.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on April 06, 2016, 06:48:02 PM
Quote from: Liep on April 06, 2016, 04:19:48 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 05, 2016, 07:44:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 05, 2016, 11:53:21 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/12938153_1092991237390545_4617559686042348110_n.jpg?oh=f3eef9858cc5fdcbabf74b2ea37885b5&oe=5772A2C0)

Speaking of which my cousin posted this on FB today  :P

Motherfucking awesome.

I needed Wikipedia's help to understand it but in my defense it was very American.

Nothing else matters
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 06, 2016, 06:54:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 06, 2016, 06:48:02 PM
Nothing else matters

Metallica fan?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on April 06, 2016, 07:03:38 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 06, 2016, 06:54:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 06, 2016, 06:48:02 PM
Nothing else matters

Metallica fan?

USA fan, but yes for Metaliica fan prior to TBA.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 12, 2016, 12:46:47 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12961594_479513368924669_7102221504875400110_n.png?oh=2dd9bb11526b692ced667c031b90533c&oe=5779C26B&__gda__=1471733479_c4a7c3c1693fecac71f85ccd0f720b20)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 12, 2016, 12:49:17 PM
Yep that is dumb.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 12, 2016, 12:51:53 PM
Well maybe an insane feminist.

But that legendary feminist Justin Trudeau just sees potential liberal voters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 12, 2016, 01:01:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 12, 2016, 12:51:53 PM
Well maybe an insane feminist.

A "feminazi".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 12, 2016, 02:13:34 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 12, 2016, 01:01:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 12, 2016, 12:51:53 PM
Well maybe an insane feminist.

A "feminazi".

An "Anita Sarkezian".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 14, 2016, 08:34:51 AM
So the dude who posted the "when is white history month" pic and is a huge Trump supporter posted this today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 08:44:37 AM
He knows Trump is a friend to the working man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 14, 2016, 10:06:38 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 08:44:37 AM
He knows Trump is a friend to the working man.

Well, Trump appears to be whatever his supporters want him to be.

Seeing that red upraised fist was just a bit of an anomaly on my fb feed.  Most of my far left friends tend to be more subtle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 14, 2016, 11:42:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

At least in Poland, the only true leftists belong to the generation younger than mine, who all have rich parents funding their alternative lifestyles. Nobody who was at least 10 when the communism ended wants to come even close to socialism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 14, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

That became quite clear in Canada, when the left-wing party embraced a platform of wiping out the oil and gas industry, together with the hundred thousand blue collar working jobs that go with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 14, 2016, 12:33:47 PM
Well, obviously the Canadian left came to the realization that Canada needs more green jobs. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 14, 2016, 12:43:00 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 14, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

That became quite clear in Canada, when the left-wing party embraced a platform of wiping out the oil and gas industry, together with the hundred thousand blue collar working jobs that go with it.
Not commenting on this issue in particular one way or the other, but the jobs created or jobs destroyed arguments in such discussion are such a total bullshit, for a number of reasons.  If you legalize contract killing, you can create some hit man jobs, as well as some jobs for administrative assistant to handle the orders and the associating billing.  However, I think we're better off without creating such jobs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 14, 2016, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 14, 2016, 12:43:00 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 14, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

That became quite clear in Canada, when the left-wing party embraced a platform of wiping out the oil and gas industry, together with the hundred thousand blue collar working jobs that go with it.
Not commenting on this issue in particular one way or the other, but the jobs created or jobs destroyed arguments in such discussion are such a total bullshit, for a number of reasons.  If you legalize contract killing, you can create some hit man jobs, as well as some jobs for administrative assistant to handle the orders and the associating billing.  However, I think we're better off without creating such jobs.

Yeah, but he's talking about wiping out the already established hit man industry.

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2016, 02:30:46 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 14, 2016, 11:42:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

At least in Poland, the only true leftists belong to the generation younger than mine, who all have rich parents funding their alternative lifestyles. Nobody who was at least 10 when the communism ended wants to come even close to socialism.

Huh, I thought the concept of a worker's solidarity was something of a big deal for Poles who remember the 1980's.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 14, 2016, 03:34:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 14, 2016, 12:33:47 PM
Well, obviously the Canadian left came to the realization that Canada needs more green jobs.

If everybody else listened we would not have global warming and Daesh terrorists. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 14, 2016, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2016, 02:30:46 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 14, 2016, 11:42:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

At least in Poland, the only true leftists belong to the generation younger than mine, who all have rich parents funding their alternative lifestyles. Nobody who was at least 10 when the communism ended wants to come even close to socialism.

Huh, I thought the concept of a worker's solidarity was something of a big deal for Poles who remember the 1980's.

Not really. The Polish revolution was mainly based on conservative and/or libertarian principles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2016, 05:05:27 PM
Libertarians hate trade unions.  Seems odd that they would all belong to one.  Hell, the American AFL-CIO sent money and equipment to the Solidarity movement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Brazen on April 15, 2016, 06:21:44 AM
On a page dedicated to a disabled rescue cat:

"GOD bless you for adopting this loving cat. I two adopted two cats and all I get is unconstitutional love in return."  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on April 15, 2016, 06:36:42 AM
Quote from: Brazen on April 15, 2016, 06:21:44 AM
On a page dedicated to a disabled rescue cat:

"GOD bless you for adopting this loving cat. I two adopted two cats and all I get is unconstitutional love in return."  :lol:

But the UK has no written constitution. Are they violating the Magna Carta? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 15, 2016, 06:38:44 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2016, 05:05:27 PM
Libertarians hate trade unions.  Seems odd that they would all belong to one.  Hell, the American AFL-CIO sent money and equipment to the Solidarity movement.

It's complicated. In 1980s it was a worker movement but mainly because a worker movement was the only type of movement that the regime would listen to - just like the French revolution started with upset aristocrats and bourgeoisie despite ending up as a popular revolution.

But almost all of the elites that grew out of the movement and took over in the 1990s belonged to two camps - pro-free-market neoliberals and Catholic conservatives. There were hardly any socialists there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 15, 2016, 06:39:22 AM
Quote from: Brazen on April 15, 2016, 06:21:44 AM
On a page dedicated to a disabled rescue cat:

"GOD bless you for adopting this loving cat. I two adopted two cats and all I get is unconstitutional love in return."  :lol:

Love that does not dare to speak its meow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on April 15, 2016, 06:44:40 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2016, 06:38:44 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2016, 05:05:27 PM
Libertarians hate trade unions.  Seems odd that they would all belong to one.  Hell, the American AFL-CIO sent money and equipment to the Solidarity movement.

It's complicated. In 1980s it was a worker movement but mainly because a worker movement was the only type of movement that the regime would listen to - just like the French revolution started with upset aristocrats and bourgeoisie despite ending up as a popular revolution.

But almost all of the elites that grew out of the movement and took over in the 1990s belonged to two camps - pro-free-market neoliberals and Catholic conservatives. There were hardly any socialists there.

What happened to the "reformed" communist party? Aren't they sort of social democrats now? Have they been utterly annihilated during elections?

I know a few Poles here in Norway, and they seem very traditionalist and deeply Catholic. Which I guess is natural, given that they had 50 years of communist propaganda to revolt against.

I think the Norwegian trade union council also supported Solidarity with funds. Walesa was kind of a big deal here back in the early 80s. And Jaruszelski with his huge glasses and strict appearance a perfect tabloid bogeyman along with Brezhnev.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Brazen on April 15, 2016, 07:07:22 AM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12670541_10156714736225433_6518733799774029560_n.jpg?oh=6412094c2643592ba18db24bf3562388&oe=577ABCD3)
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 15, 2016, 08:06:56 AM
Heh, I googled that, hoping it was real.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Brazen on April 15, 2016, 08:14:27 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 15, 2016, 08:06:56 AM
Heh, I googled that, hoping it was real.  :(
:console:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 15, 2016, 08:35:49 AM
Quote from: Norgy on April 15, 2016, 06:44:40 AM
What happened to the "reformed" communist party? Aren't they sort of social democrats now? Have they been utterly annihilated during elections?

They have become a "social democrat" party but quite liberal by Western European (especially Scandinavian) standards. For example, during their time in power in late 1990s/early 2000s, they flattened personal income tax rate (from 3 to two levels) and generally lowered the taxes (thanks to them I am paying 19% flat income tax rate on my income :P).

They suffered a major defeat in 2005 elections, following a series of bribery scandals, and never recovered power. Finally, in the last elections, in 2016, they were utterly annihilated, failing to get even one MP.

Of the parties in the Parliament at the moment, PiS is the one with actually the most "social" programme but with a definitive traditionalist slant. For example, their flagship social programme is the recently introduced "500 plus" programme, where people with two or more children are eligible to receive a flat monthly stipend from the state, for every child in excess of the first one, irrespective of their actual financial status. So rich people with 2 or more children are technically eligible (but would probably not bother to get it, as it is just 500 zlotys, which is like EUR 150, per child) and poor single mothers with just one child are receiving zilch.

Outside of the ex-commies and PiS, there is also a new party with Scandinavia-style socialist ideas (in Poland, they count as Marxists), called "Razem" ("Together") which managed to get 3% in the last elections but did not get any MPs. But hopefully they will never matter much.

Two main Parliamentary opposition parties are liberal in the same sense as German FDP is/was.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 15, 2016, 08:59:20 AM
Quote from: Brazen on April 15, 2016, 08:14:27 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 15, 2016, 08:06:56 AM
Heh, I googled that, hoping it was real.  :(
:console:

As soon as I saw 420 I knew it was a joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on April 15, 2016, 09:04:33 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2016, 08:35:49 AM
Quote from: Norgy on April 15, 2016, 06:44:40 AM
What happened to the "reformed" communist party? Aren't they sort of social democrats now? Have they been utterly annihilated during elections?

They have become a "social democrat" party but quite liberal by Western European (especially Scandinavian) standards. For example, during their time in power in late 1990s/early 2000s, they flattened personal income tax rate (from 3 to two levels) and generally lowered the taxes (thanks to them I am paying 19% flat income tax rate on my income :P).

They suffered a major defeat in 2005 elections, following a series of bribery scandals, and never recovered power. Finally, in the last elections, in 2016, they were utterly annihilated, failing to get even one MP.

Of the parties in the Parliament at the moment, PiS is the one with actually the most "social" programme but with a definitive traditionalist slant. For example, their flagship social programme is the recently introduced "500 plus" programme, where people with two or more children are eligible to receive a flat monthly stipend from the state, for every child in excess of the first one, irrespective of their actual financial status. So rich people with 2 or more children are technically eligible (but would probably not bother to get it, as it is just 500 zlotys, which is like EUR 150, per child) and poor single mothers with just one child are receiving zilch.

Outside of the ex-commies and PiS, there is also a new party with Scandinavia-style socialist ideas (in Poland, they count as Marxists), called "Razem" ("Together") which managed to get 3% in the last elections but did not get any MPs. But hopefully they will never matter much.

Two main Parliamentary opposition parties are liberal in the same sense as German FDP is/was.

That was clarifying, thanks.
The difference between Norwegian Labour and continental so-called socialists isn't that huge, really when it comes down to brass tacks, but the trade unions still have sway here. Thankfully. The Swedish socialdemocrats are more continental both in politics and rethoric. The Danes, I've written off long ago.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 15, 2016, 12:57:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2016, 06:38:44 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2016, 05:05:27 PM
Libertarians hate trade unions.  Seems odd that they would all belong to one.  Hell, the American AFL-CIO sent money and equipment to the Solidarity movement.

It's complicated. In 1980s it was a worker movement but mainly because a worker movement was the only type of movement that the regime would listen to - just like the French revolution started with upset aristocrats and bourgeoisie despite ending up as a popular revolution.

But almost all of the elites that grew out of the movement and took over in the 1990s belonged to two camps - pro-free-market neoliberals and Catholic conservatives. There were hardly any socialists there.

The AFL-CIO isn't socialist either.  You can be pro-worker without being a red.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 15, 2016, 12:57:42 PM
Quote from: Brazen on April 15, 2016, 07:07:22 AM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12670541_10156714736225433_6518733799774029560_n.jpg?oh=6412094c2643592ba18db24bf3562388&oe=577ABCD3)
:rolleyes:

One of my idiot cousins fell for it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 15, 2016, 12:59:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 15, 2016, 12:57:42 PM
Quote from: Brazen on April 15, 2016, 07:07:22 AM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12670541_10156714736225433_6518733799774029560_n.jpg?oh=6412094c2643592ba18db24bf3562388&oe=577ABCD3)
:rolleyes:

One of my idiot cousins fell for it.

We know. Also, cool!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 15, 2016, 02:22:33 PM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/12963847_10154214234723469_2762058946208531641_n.jpg?oh=21336e1a78c06a8fb6b476a816fa94ca&oe=577AAE7D)

"Do not forget, tonight the moon will be visible from all over France."
"That last time it happenned, it was yesterday night".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on April 15, 2016, 04:34:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 15, 2016, 12:57:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2016, 06:38:44 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2016, 05:05:27 PM
Libertarians hate trade unions.  Seems odd that they would all belong to one.  Hell, the American AFL-CIO sent money and equipment to the Solidarity movement.

It's complicated. In 1980s it was a worker movement but mainly because a worker movement was the only type of movement that the regime would listen to - just like the French revolution started with upset aristocrats and bourgeoisie despite ending up as a popular revolution.

But almost all of the elites that grew out of the movement and took over in the 1990s belonged to two camps - pro-free-market neoliberals and Catholic conservatives. There were hardly any socialists there.

The AFL-CIO isn't socialist either.  You can be pro-worker without being a red.

Never met a pro-worker who wasn't a red, but to each his own.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 15, 2016, 04:53:18 PM
The US is perhaps odd in that respect.  US unions are typically (and have traditionally), been virulently anti-communist.  Union members are often quite conservative.  I have quite a few in the family, none were in it for radical politics.  Mostly they just want a good job with a good wage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 15, 2016, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: Norgy on April 15, 2016, 04:34:00 PM
Never met a pro-worker who wasn't a red, but to each his own.

Even the National Socialist German Workers Party? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Norgy on April 16, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2016, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: Norgy on April 15, 2016, 04:34:00 PM
Never met a pro-worker who wasn't a red, but to each his own.

Even the National Socialist German Workers Party? :P

Heart exploding to commence in 3-2-...


Raz, well, so were most Norwegian trade unions. The only examples I can think of that were truly "communist" in a sense, and that being Trotskiist, were the elevator fitters, installers and repairs union. The UK saw the Labour Party locally and a lot of unions being taken over by Trotskiists in the late 70s and early 80s.
I'm no communist, and barely socialist in most socialists' eyes, but I could get on the Bernie Sanders bandwagon, as he's representing the kind of democratic socialism I identify with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 16, 2016, 02:08:09 PM
Quote from: Norgy on April 16, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Heart exploding to commence in 3-2-...

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on April 19, 2016, 05:58:06 PM
Why.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on April 22, 2016, 07:09:22 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13012747_10153566300321769_3650906555194621429_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=306f04d4a06d5f88b15bdf33252c6af0&oe=57723A1E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 22, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 19, 2016, 05:58:06 PM
Why.

Indeed.  Why do Communists even have money?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 27, 2016, 07:12:53 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/13043808_1716897815247035_7123233995455991020_n.jpg?oh=bdbc47757d60e71a182d3b41f552d3e4&oe=57A56443)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 27, 2016, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 14, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

That became quite clear in Canada, when the left-wing party embraced a platform of wiping out the oil and gas industry, together with the hundred thousand blue collar working jobs that go with it.

You are getting as bad as Viper.  What left-wing party "embraced" wiping out the oil and gas industry?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 27, 2016, 10:35:27 AM
Also Omarosa!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on April 27, 2016, 10:53:31 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 27, 2016, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 14, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

That became quite clear in Canada, when the left-wing party embraced a platform of wiping out the oil and gas industry, together with the hundred thousand blue collar working jobs that go with it.

You are getting as bad as Viper.  What left-wing party "embraced" wiping out the oil and gas industry?

The NDP. Not to defend BB to much but they did that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 27, 2016, 11:22:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 27, 2016, 07:12:53 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/13043808_1716897815247035_7123233995455991020_n.jpg?oh=bdbc47757d60e71a182d3b41f552d3e4&oe=57A56443)

Ted Cruz isn't a Catholic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on April 27, 2016, 11:29:51 AM
Nor is he American or a Democrat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 27, 2016, 04:19:11 PM
Quote from: Jaron on April 27, 2016, 11:29:51 AM
Nor is he American or a Democrat.
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 27, 2016, 04:39:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 27, 2016, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 14, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

That became quite clear in Canada, when the left-wing party embraced a platform of wiping out the oil and gas industry, together with the hundred thousand blue collar working jobs that go with it.

You are getting as bad as Viper.  What left-wing party "embraced" wiping out the oil and gas industry?

The NDP and the Leap Manifesto.

They want the oil and gas industry to be extinct by 2050.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 27, 2016, 06:16:50 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 27, 2016, 10:53:31 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 27, 2016, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 14, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

That became quite clear in Canada, when the left-wing party embraced a platform of wiping out the oil and gas industry, together with the hundred thousand blue collar working jobs that go with it.

You are getting as bad as Viper.  What left-wing party "embraced" wiping out the oil and gas industry?

The NDP. Not to defend BB to much but they did that.

No they agreed to consider the manifesto.  It is a blood bath here in BC.  The NDP are ripping themselves apart over the issue.  McLeans even had a cover story on it entitled - how to kill the NDP.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 27, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 27, 2016, 04:39:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 27, 2016, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 14, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
The far left is not so much about that workers stuff anymore. They are a bunch of privileged abled people or something.

That became quite clear in Canada, when the left-wing party embraced a platform of wiping out the oil and gas industry, together with the hundred thousand blue collar working jobs that go with it.

You are getting as bad as Viper.  What left-wing party "embraced" wiping out the oil and gas industry?

The NDP and the Leap Manifesto.

They want the oil and gas industry to be extinct by 2050.

That is what I thought you were talking about.  Far from the NDP  "embracing" the manifesto the closest they came was to vote to consider it.  There was a huge amount of disagreement among the delegates about even going that far.  And for good reason.  It is a very divisive issue which pits the unions against the environmentalists. With a year to go before the BC election the timing could not be worse for the NDP here. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 30, 2016, 02:11:43 PM
Quote<rant> Walked into a Louis Vutton for all of three minutes out of curiosity, because I'd never been in one before, and I practically ran out in a panic of confusion and disgust, with my sense of hope for the human race and the possibility of peace and equality on earth lying beaten up and tattered on the ground. I think it had something to do with the woman there promoting the small LV bag shaped vase with fake flowers in it as a Mother's Day gift for the unthinkable price tag of $6,000. Six fucking thousand dollars. I love my mom, and I know that she would be horrified, as I would hope all mothers would, if a child of theirs spent that much money on such a frivolous object while so many mothers' children in this planet starve. It blows my mind and saddens my heart how these two realities are possible. I'm not saying one should not occasionally indulge in nice things or experiences to take care of oneself and ones body and experience joy and pleasure. But there's a line, somewhere, I don't know exactly where, where indulgence makes me so angry I want to throw up. Thanks for listening </rant>
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on April 30, 2016, 02:14:22 PM
That mom probably wasn't horrified when her husband laid out that much for a shiny hunk of frivolous geology.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on April 30, 2016, 03:47:31 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/13138927_10156796156215542_8880638701539012881_n.jpg?oh=1e85adbbc58cd9d9ec60baedc65317a6&oe=57A36CF1&__gda__=1471653966_809cc7caf523890ce4487cf726ffda04)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2016, 04:01:14 PM
That is an absolutely atrocious PowerPoint.

She should've used "e.g." instead of "i.e."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 30, 2016, 04:04:31 PM
Fat Liberation Workshop. Only in America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 30, 2016, 04:12:52 PM
I wonder what #4 is supposed to mean.

Maybe something about reducing meat consumption pisses fatties off?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 30, 2016, 04:28:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2016, 04:04:31 PM
Fat Liberation Workshop. Only in America.

I doubt that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2016, 04:36:39 PM
I dunno; that outfit, looks like fat is already liberated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on April 30, 2016, 05:47:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 30, 2016, 04:12:52 PM
I wonder what #4 is supposed to mean.

Maybe something about reducing meat consumption pisses fatties off?

It means that activists within sustainable food movements and food justice movements (who can be good people, but who are also full of self-righteous people, like monomaniacal vegans) tend to associate fat people with the "other", those who are part of the problem - as meat eaters, unhealthy eaters, consumers of industrial junk food, etc.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 30, 2016, 06:04:08 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on April 30, 2016, 05:47:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 30, 2016, 04:12:52 PM
I wonder what #4 is supposed to mean.

Maybe something about reducing meat consumption pisses fatties off?

It means that activists within sustainable food movements and food justice movements (who can be good people, but who are also full of self-righteous people, like monomaniacal vegans) tend to associate fat people with the "other", those who are part of the problem - as meat eaters, unhealthy eaters, consumers of industrial junk food, etc.

Hello Oexy, good you have you back posting. :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
"Fatness has little to nothing to do with health" is climate change denial level of stupidity. Perhaps even worse. Is there any single condition that is not made worse by being overweight?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 01, 2016, 02:12:02 AM
Just for the record, my post was meant to lampoon the idiocy of that fat bitch and her Powerpoint - not the lampoon people lampooning her. Just saying. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 01, 2016, 02:22:04 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 01, 2016, 02:12:02 AM
Just for the record, my post was meant to lampoon the idiocy of that fat bitch and her Powerpoint - not the lampoon people lampooning her. Just saying. ;)

The only people who didn't get that are the ones who never read your posts, and they didn't read the clarification either.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 01, 2016, 02:24:37 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 01, 2016, 02:22:04 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 01, 2016, 02:12:02 AM
Just for the record, my post was meant to lampoon the idiocy of that fat bitch and her Powerpoint - not the lampoon people lampooning her. Just saying. ;)

The only people who didn't get that are the ones who never read your posts, and they didn't read the clarification either.  :P

But then would they see the picture I posted either? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 01, 2016, 02:47:21 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
"Fatness has little to nothing to do with health" is climate change denial level of stupidity. Perhaps even worse. Is there any single condition that is not made worse by being overweight?

Anorexia?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 01, 2016, 02:54:30 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 01, 2016, 02:47:21 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
"Fatness has little to nothing to do with health" is climate change denial level of stupidity. Perhaps even worse. Is there any single condition that is not made worse by being overweight?

Anorexia?

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 03:01:21 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 01, 2016, 02:47:21 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
"Fatness has little to nothing to do with health" is climate change denial level of stupidity. Perhaps even worse. Is there any single condition that is not made worse by being overweight?

Anorexia?
Maybe, but Anorexia is a psychiatric disorder. Being underweight is only the symptom, not the disease itself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 01, 2016, 03:04:32 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 03:01:21 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 01, 2016, 02:47:21 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
"Fatness has little to nothing to do with health" is climate change denial level of stupidity. Perhaps even worse. Is there any single condition that is not made worse by being overweight?

Anorexia?
Maybe, but Anorexia is a psychiatric disorder. Being underweight is only the symptom, not the disease itself.

I don't follow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 03:13:03 AM
Too bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 01, 2016, 03:27:19 AM
He is changing goal posts, B.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 01, 2016, 11:44:13 AM
Gotcha.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on May 01, 2016, 04:38:47 PM
Zanz0wned
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 02, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
Is there any single condition that is not made worse by being overweight?
it's more along the line of being overweight does not preclude being in bad health.  Existing adverse medical conditions can be amplified, but it is not true that being overweight automatically brings bad health in itself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on May 02, 2016, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
"Fatness has little to nothing to do with health" is climate change denial level of stupidity. Perhaps even worse. Is there any single condition that is not made worse by being overweight?

Unpopular opinion time: As someone who struggles to get rid of a spare tire, these tubs of lard acting like their physically revolting dietary habits are somehow on par with a genuine medical condition like PCOS or actual hypothyroidism, which really do cause uncontrollable weight gain, sicken me.  There's a difference between calling somebody fat for an extra 10 pounds that may or may not just be muscle, and calling out somebody who doesn't want to confront their own fucking food addiction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on May 02, 2016, 12:40:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 02, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
Is there any single condition that is not made worse by being overweight?
it's more along the line of being overweight does not preclude being in bad health.  Existing adverse medical conditions can be amplified, but it is not true that being overweight automatically brings bad health in itself.

Because it is a symptom, not a disease in itself.  The obnoxious thing about this "fat acceptance" fad is that it keeps people from talking about the real underlying issues causing the fatness in the first place.  Food addiction.  Being sedentary to the point of risking real cardiovascular issues.  Stuff like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 02, 2016, 01:04:42 PM
I can get not wanting people to be all like 'OMG you are a big fat pig' all  the time. But hell if you that just move to the American South or Texas. Being fat is totally normal, nobody will give you shit about it.

But I think these people want more than just not getting shit for being fat, they want affirmation. And you really should not expect affirmation unless you are doing something generally considered impressive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 02, 2016, 05:51:51 PM
Walking around with five hundred pounds of weight is impressive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2016, 06:06:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 02, 2016, 01:04:42 PM
I can get not wanting people to be all like 'OMG you are a big fat pig' all  the time. But hell if you that just move to the American South or Texas. Being fat is totally normal, nobody will give you shit about it.

But I think these people want more than just not getting shit for being fat, they want affirmation. And you really should not expect affirmation unless you are doing something generally considered impressive.

Being an unfairly oppressed victim is a variation on the theme of affirmation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 02, 2016, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2016, 05:51:51 PM
Walking around with five hundred pounds of weight is impressive.

Indeed. Most people who weigh that much can hardly walk at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 03, 2016, 10:18:50 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 02, 2016, 12:40:23 PM
Food addiction.  Being sedentary to the point of risking real cardiovascular issues.  Stuff like that.
and too much sugar in everything we eat and drink.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 09, 2016, 09:04:19 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Brazen on May 09, 2016, 09:12:42 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 01, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
"Fatness has little to nothing to do with health" is climate change denial level of stupidity. Perhaps even worse. Is there any single condition that is not made worse by being overweight?
Fatness does not necessarily trigger the biomarkers for the conditions it can cause. I'm obese but recently aced a full-scale wellness test including blood sugar, cholesterol, resting heart-rate etc. because I exercise and my diet's good. In fact the nurse said "nearly everyone your age leaves with stains, but your risk of a cardiovascular incident is half that of average for your age.

There's a reverse causality at work too. If you don't exercise and eat well you're more likely to be overweight, and the first two are just as much culprits for life-affecting conditions as the weight itself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 09, 2016, 09:15:04 AM
Quote from: Brazen on May 09, 2016, 09:12:42 AM
I'm obese

:yeahright:

But then I come from Texas. If you can move without one of those scooter things you are not obese to us :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Brazen on May 09, 2016, 09:15:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 01, 2016, 02:12:02 AM
Just for the record, my post was meant to lampoon the idiocy of that fat bitch and her Powerpoint - not the lampoon people lampooning her. Just saying. ;)
Please don't call someone you don't know a bitch based on her appearance and Powerpoint skills.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 11, 2016, 07:19:24 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13139315_1728802307398013_3233911115715371523_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=72a8432cd6b7e7a140410c67387a9b6a&oe=57E32570)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on May 11, 2016, 07:22:46 PM
I laughed
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 11, 2016, 09:32:30 PM
Yep.  That was a good one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 12, 2016, 09:01:30 AM
Not really that far out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 12, 2016, 09:07:42 AM
Quote from: Brazen on May 09, 2016, 09:15:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 01, 2016, 02:12:02 AM
Just for the record, my post was meant to lampoon the idiocy of that fat bitch and her Powerpoint - not the lampoon people lampooning her. Just saying. ;)
Please don't call someone you don't know a bitch based on her appearance and Powerpoint skills.

Can we call her that for her wacky ideas?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on May 12, 2016, 09:59:55 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 11, 2016, 09:32:30 PM
Yep.  That was a good one.

You might enjoy https://www.reddit.com/r/forwardsfromgrandma (https://www.reddit.com/r/forwardsfromgrandma).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 12:41:43 PM
Is this a place to post spam from complete lunatics forwarded to me? If so, here is an example:

QuoteThe following text was communicated to me, David Maxim, by The Eternal God, The Lord JESUS The Christ:

NOW READ ABOUT THE FINAL DAYS OF HENRY MORGENTALER. HE WAS TOLD DIRECTLY BY LORD JESUS THE CHRIST HIS ABORITIONS WERE MURDER. HE DID NOT TELL ANYONE ABOUT THIS.

"Now concerning the last days of Henry Morgentaler:"

"Henry Morgentaler knew he was killing unborn babies. Before he died, I, Lord JESUS The Christ, told him directly to repent. He did not reply to me. The fact that he was Jewish and that most Jews still deny Me is no excuse. The Jews have been warned and told for more than 2,000 years of who I AM. I, LORD JESUS THE CHRIST, AM ALSO JEWISH OR DID YOU FORGET THAT?" (There are also many Christian Jews who know that Lord JESUS is The Son of God, God and Their Messiah, The Christ.)

"Before Morgentaler died, I gave him a DREAM**** about his abortions. His reaction was to never tell anyone about this. He knew before he died. Had Henry Morgentaler repented of his sins of murder to Me, I would have saved him from Hell. So you see, even though Morgentaler did not believe in Me, Lord JESUS The Christ, I revealed Myself to Him and told him about his murders before he died. So there. Read it again. Despite the fact that he personally murdered thousands of unborn babies, The Mercy, Love, and Forgiveness from Me was still available to him. That is correct. That is how much I love people; that I, Lord JESUS The Christ would be murdered and tortured for Henry Morgentaler's sins."

"Henry Morgentaler said to Me, Lord JESUS The Christ, that if I would give him one more opportunity back on Earth, he would renounce abortion and abolish his clinics. He said he would tell everyone that he had met Me, Lord JESUS The Christ, and tell everyone that JESUS is God. I said to Morgentaler, I will not give you another opportunity. What a shame and a calamity; that he would deny he was a murderer when he knew in the last moments of his life who I AM, and that he still had a chance to be forgiven and make it to Heaven. Before I sentenced him to Hell for Eternity, he was given many, many, many, many chances to repent. He would not."

**** DREAM: This is the exact dream given to unrepentant Baby-killer Henry Morgentaler.

The reason I know this is the DREAM given to Morgentaler is because: A few years before Morgentaler's death, I, David Maxim received a dream about abortion, what it is really like. At that time, I did not know the full meaning of this dream given to me. It was years laters, after Morgentaler died and went to Hell, that; with the help of The Lord JESUS The Christ, I was able link my dream with the dream The Lord JESUS The Christ said He gave to Morgentaler. Here is dream:

SAME DREAM given to David Maxim (Christian) and Unrepentant Baby-Killer Henry Morgentaler before he physically died:

DREAM: I was beside an indoor swimming pool. I saw a young toddler. Someone then through the young toddler into the (indoor) swimming pool. In the swimming pool was a shark I saw this shark clearly in the dream.

I then saw the face of this young toddler. What was unusual was that; this young toddler had a full set of adult teeth! This indicates that Father JEHOVAH God sees Babies at any stage of development, as adults; as fully grown! This is the dream from The Lord JESUS The Christ The Eternal God given to me, David Maxim and then later to Henry Morgentaler; before he physically died. Morgentaler knew abortion was murder, but would not stop, would not repent. Let me assure the Reader of this: Morgentaler is repentant now, but it is too late for him. Once you are DEAD, your JUDGMENT is set.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 12, 2016, 12:58:40 PM
Well, being a lawyer is kinda like being an abortionist.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2016, 01:00:29 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 12:41:43 PM
Is this a place to post spam from complete lunatics forwarded to me?

Forwarding messages from Jesus to a Jew? As an idolater I think you have to stone this lunatic to death.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 12, 2016, 01:28:22 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 12:41:43 PM
Is this a place to post spam from complete lunatics forwarded to me? If so, here is an example:

QuoteThe following text was communicated to me, David Maxim, by The Eternal God, The Lord JESUS The Christ:

NOW READ ABOUT THE FINAL DAYS OF HENRY MORGENTALER. HE WAS TOLD DIRECTLY BY LORD JESUS THE CHRIST HIS ABORITIONS WERE MURDER. HE DID NOT TELL ANYONE ABOUT THIS.

"Now concerning the last days of Henry Morgentaler:"

"Henry Morgentaler knew he was killing unborn babies. Before he died, I, Lord JESUS The Christ, told him directly to repent. He did not reply to me. The fact that he was Jewish and that most Jews still deny Me is no excuse. The Jews have been warned and told for more than 2,000 years of who I AM. I, LORD JESUS THE CHRIST, AM ALSO JEWISH OR DID YOU FORGET THAT?" (There are also many Christian Jews who know that Lord JESUS is The Son of God, God and Their Messiah, The Christ.)

"Before Morgentaler died, I gave him a DREAM**** about his abortions. His reaction was to never tell anyone about this. He knew before he died. Had Henry Morgentaler repented of his sins of murder to Me, I would have saved him from Hell. So you see, even though Morgentaler did not believe in Me, Lord JESUS The Christ, I revealed Myself to Him and told him about his murders before he died. So there. Read it again. Despite the fact that he personally murdered thousands of unborn babies, The Mercy, Love, and Forgiveness from Me was still available to him. That is correct. That is how much I love people; that I, Lord JESUS The Christ would be murdered and tortured for Henry Morgentaler's sins."

"Henry Morgentaler said to Me, Lord JESUS The Christ, that if I would give him one more opportunity back on Earth, he would renounce abortion and abolish his clinics. He said he would tell everyone that he had met Me, Lord JESUS The Christ, and tell everyone that JESUS is God. I said to Morgentaler, I will not give you another opportunity. What a shame and a calamity; that he would deny he was a murderer when he knew in the last moments of his life who I AM, and that he still had a chance to be forgiven and make it to Heaven. Before I sentenced him to Hell for Eternity, he was given many, many, many, many chances to repent. He would not."

**** DREAM: This is the exact dream given to unrepentant Baby-killer Henry Morgentaler.

The reason I know this is the DREAM given to Morgentaler is because: A few years before Morgentaler's death, I, David Maxim received a dream about abortion, what it is really like. At that time, I did not know the full meaning of this dream given to me. It was years laters, after Morgentaler died and went to Hell, that; with the help of The Lord JESUS The Christ, I was able link my dream with the dream The Lord JESUS The Christ said He gave to Morgentaler. Here is dream:

SAME DREAM given to David Maxim (Christian) and Unrepentant Baby-Killer Henry Morgentaler before he physically died:

DREAM: I was beside an indoor swimming pool. I saw a young toddler. Someone then through the young toddler into the (indoor) swimming pool. In the swimming pool was a shark I saw this shark clearly in the dream.

I then saw the face of this young toddler. What was unusual was that; this young toddler had a full set of adult teeth! This indicates that Father JEHOVAH God sees Babies at any stage of development, as adults; as fully grown! This is the dream from The Lord JESUS The Christ The Eternal God given to me, David Maxim and then later to Henry Morgentaler; before he physically died. Morgentaler knew abortion was murder, but would not stop, would not repent. Let me assure the Reader of this: Morgentaler is repentant now, but it is too late for him. Once you are DEAD, your JUDGMENT is set.

Didn't you represent Jesus Christ once?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2016, 01:28:22 PM

Didn't you represent Jesus Christ once?

Even better: he sued a client of mine.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2016, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2016, 01:28:22 PM

Didn't you represent Jesus Christ once?

Even better: he sued a client of mine.  :D

:lol:

I remember that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 01:46:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2016, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2016, 01:28:22 PM

Didn't you represent Jesus Christ once?

Even better: he sued a client of mine.  :D

:lol:

I remember that.

Alas, I don't seem to get cases like that anymore. :( Maybe my billing rate is too high or something.

I was also mildly involved in another case as young lawyer, where the client was famously sued by a Martian. That one got reported: it established the slightly worrying precedent that space aliens cannot sue in Ontario courts.  :D

[Just for kicks I noted it up, and it has been cited in Alberta, in a case involving a woman suing on the instructions of her sister's ghost:

Quote[61]           Nevertheless, in this instance I believe the correct approach is provided by an analogous scenario investigated in Joly v. Pelletier, [1999] O.J. No. 1728 (QL), 1999 CarswellOnt 1587 (Ont. Sup. Ct. J.). The plaintiff, Rene Joly, sued a variety of individuals, medical and lab facilities, and government officials who the plaintiff alleged had conspired with the American government to conceal the fact he was not human and: "... to eliminate him and otherwise taken various steps to interfere with his ability to establish himself and live freely as a martian." Justice Epstein struck the action on two bases: it was frivolous and vexatious, and also as Rene Joly, self‑admitted martian, did not have standing with the court:

... While conspiracy to do harm to someone is the basis of many actions in the Court there is a fundamental flaw in the position of Mr. Joly. Rule 1.03 defines plaintiff as "a person who commences an action". The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary defines person as "an individual human being". Section 29 of the Interpretation Act provides that a person includes a corporation. It follows that if the plaintiff is not a person in that he is neither a human being nor a corporation, he cannot be a plaintiff as contemplated by the Rules of Civil Procedure. The entire basis of Mr. Joly's actions is that he is a martian, not a human being. There is certainly no suggest that he is a corporation. I conclude therefore that Mr. Joly, on his pleadings as drafted, has no status before the Court. [Emphasis added.]

[62]           Justice Epstein has adopted a strict approach to the definition of "person". In parallel, and absent clear legislative intent to the opposite, I refuse to entertain the directions of Ms. M. Leung (ghost), as channelled by Ms. Wong. This Court cannot and will not sit idly back and entertain applications by Ms. Wong that may be directed in Ms. Wong's mind by the ghost of her late sister.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2013/2013abqb327/2013abqb327.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAHbWFydGlhbgAAAAAB&resultIndex=6

So ghosts don't have standing, either.   :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 12, 2016, 01:50:23 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2016, 01:28:22 PM

Didn't you represent Jesus Christ once?

Even better: he sued a client of mine.  :D

That was it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 02:00:25 PM
Actually, when I come to think about it, the funny thing about the Jesus case is that it wasn't a 'vexatious litigant' (that is, lunatic). It was, oddly enough, a serious case about real money, and the guy behind it had something of a genuine beef - though he lost.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 12, 2016, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on May 12, 2016, 09:59:55 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 11, 2016, 09:32:30 PM
Yep.  That was a good one.

You might enjoy https://www.reddit.com/r/forwardsfromgrandma (https://www.reddit.com/r/forwardsfromgrandma).

Wow.  That you think those are similar to the Sander's plan meme is kinda disturbing.  Is that your grandmother sending those.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on May 14, 2016, 07:32:20 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13166068_1800701330153105_4141978825435147155_n.jpg?oh=380014e1ae891627e68ca3a0cf210bf7&oe=57DEB952)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 14, 2016, 09:51:10 PM
Yeah I have seen that one going around. What a totally new message  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 15, 2016, 12:40:46 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13227106_822433901227512_765017618667135380_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=725cde05971b7416af4cabb55e4b5b05&oe=57DC5AA6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 17, 2016, 06:08:36 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 12, 2016, 02:00:25 PM
Actually, when I come to think about it, the funny thing about the Jesus case is that it wasn't a 'vexatious litigant' (that is, lunatic). It was, oddly enough, a serious case about real money, and the guy behind it had something of a genuine beef - though he lost.  ;)

Are we still talking about Jesus's trial and crucifixion?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 17, 2016, 06:09:39 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 12, 2016, 09:07:42 AM
Quote from: Brazen on May 09, 2016, 09:15:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 01, 2016, 02:12:02 AM
Just for the record, my post was meant to lampoon the idiocy of that fat bitch and her Powerpoint - not the lampoon people lampooning her. Just saying. ;)
Please don't call someone you don't know a bitch based on her appearance and Powerpoint skills.

Can we call her that for her wacky ideas?

This.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on May 17, 2016, 07:52:59 AM
Lot of ill-temper on Languish the last couple of weeks, is this place becoming more Facebook like? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on May 17, 2016, 09:04:27 AM
Quote from: mongers on May 17, 2016, 07:52:59 AM
Lot of ill-temper on Languish the last couple of weeks, is this place becoming more Facebook like? :unsure:

Probably just rutting season.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2016, 05:36:25 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-f09jpdW2mjE%2FVqhF7VcjTMI%2FAAAAAAAAPkw%2FD8w2cUu7tFE%2Fs1600%2FGovernment%252BWants%252BYou%252Bto%252BRemeber%252BSchool%252BShootings.jpg&hash=451828138de2e5745c9df089ffb2f849a7c97254)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 17, 2016, 07:09:58 PM
I always love those "the government doesn't want you to know about X".  That must be why that picture was in 10th grade history book, because the government didn't want me to know about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 17, 2016, 07:12:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 17, 2016, 07:09:58 PM
I always love those "the government doesn't want you to know about X".  That must be why that picture was in 10th grade history book, because the government didn't want me to know about it.

People who like conspiracies tend to be the ones who skipped 10th grade history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 17, 2016, 07:50:04 PM
I remember being lectured at the EUOT that the American media/government/Jews were keeping some information from me.  Inevitably the information was easy to find, such as in a CNN article or textbook.  I always wondered what inspired people to say such stupid things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 18, 2016, 08:03:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 17, 2016, 07:50:04 PM
I remember being lectured at the EUOT that the American media/government/Jews were keeping some information from me.  Inevitably the information was easy to find, such as in a CNN article or textbook.  I always wondered what inspired people to say such stupid things.
THey like being victims.  They also like being one of the Select who see how things really are.  Not like you sheeple.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 18, 2016, 09:12:02 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 17, 2016, 07:50:04 PM
I remember being lectured at the EUOT that the American media/government/Jews were keeping some information from me.  Inevitably the information was easy to find, such as in a CNN article or textbook.  I always wondered what inspired people to say such stupid things.

Low intelligence, often the result of untreated retardism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 18, 2016, 06:48:46 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13241260_659456034208283_2783228018904922742_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=484e5bfb1c9d842e4f7f3c588cf61058&oe=57D39F94)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 18, 2016, 06:55:57 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13166060_10209603126413917_6391833848587221545_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=7c5fadcc9ea0d9837ce2f92d36079e35&oe=57E42CAF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 18, 2016, 07:30:47 PM
Dogs are much better suited to live amongst humans than wolves are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 18, 2016, 08:09:28 PM
Yeah, dogs developed an excellent survival strategy.  Do work for people, people feed them and don't kill them.  Cats developed and even better one, don't do anything for people, and people feed and protect them.  Wolves, not so much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on May 19, 2016, 12:37:01 AM
And while wolves might be cooler, they're also much closer to being wiped out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2016, 01:01:46 AM
Dogs are Uncle Toms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 19, 2016, 12:20:14 PM
 :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 19, 2016, 12:25:44 PM
Spelling is a bit off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 21, 2016, 04:13:21 AM
QuoteTrue. Like it or not.
Oh and just a friendly reminder, the Nobel peace prize was awarded to Europe in 2012.

It's been a long time since the last preaching by assertion.

This is about a FAZ article justifying German guild and self-hatred.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/janne-teller-thank-god-for-the-burden-of-history-14243542.html#GEPC;s6 (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/janne-teller-thank-god-for-the-burden-of-history-14243542.html#GEPC;s6)

QuoteThe Burden of History
How the German Sense of Guilt Saves the European Reputation
In choosing response to the current refugee crisis, European countries should look to Germany. But not just to its current specific rhetoric and policies that - despite falling far short of the needs – still wager more humane than most of the rest of Europe's. Yet, much more so as to the reasons why: a profound understanding of the costs for future generations of nations acting inhumanely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 21, 2016, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2016, 01:01:46 AM
Dogs are Uncle Toms.

Well, you don't exactly go to the airport and see cats wearing DO NOT PET vests sniffing luggage for contraband drugs.  Fuck that noise, let the humans deal with their own problems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2016, 05:09:23 PM
I'll have you know that my short-lived feline assistance program, "At Purr Service!", was the very epitome of a self-reliance, by-your-own-bootstraps handicapped service animal model. 

Nothing empowers the handicapable to help themselves more than a service cat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 04:18:33 AM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13232869_494865827389423_7026526271443324639_n.jpg?oh=af07661b1ce7586f0d2e86fc206c37ad&oe=57DECD38)

Funny how a complete lack of diversity is something to be proud of, as long as it does not involve men.

Imagine their periods syncing, though.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 04:23:23 AM
I see some Asian women in the back. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 04:38:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 04:23:23 AM
I see some Asian women in the back. :huh:

That's one. And it doesn't change the fact they are all women.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 05:01:04 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 04:38:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 04:23:23 AM
I see some Asian women in the back. :huh:

That's one. And it doesn't change the fact they are all women.

Did you or did you not say 'complete lack of diversity'? The two Asian women seem contrary to that notion.

On a substance front, I don't know if we should cry many tears because a meeting of editors took place and there were no men.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 05:17:52 AM
The point is that she is boasting about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 05:33:29 AM
I don't think that's a problem either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 06:03:33 AM
Imagine the same post made by an employee of a mayor publication but with the whole room being just men (mostly white men), and with smileys referring to some sort of "male power".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 06:53:20 AM
Well I don't need to imagine that meeting as that's mostly what happens. No one would even do what you are suggesting because it is so typical. But yes, that would be sexist given the history and current state of affairs around the genders in the workplace.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 07:10:18 AM
I'm with Marti on this one.  Confusing equality of opportunity with equality of outcomes is bad enough, but passing off gross inequality in both as equality is Orwellian.  I swear, it's like the universe is conspiring to shake my liberal beliefs by constantly throwing such nonsense at me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 07:13:42 AM
If your beliefs can be shaken by such, perhaps they aren't all that deeply held to begin with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 07:17:50 AM
Thanks to people like garbon I can't wait for Trump to win the elections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 07:21:38 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 07:17:50 AM
Thanks to people like garbon I can't wait for Trump to win the elections.

Childish poster is childish. News at 11.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 07:22:17 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 07:13:42 AM
If your beliefs can be shaken by such, perhaps they aren't all that deeply held to begin with.
No, I think Orwellian doublespeak, or blatant double standards, are pretty big issues.  I'm a liberal mainly because I like to think for myself, and because I think society functions best when it permits and encourages people to think for themselves. 

That reason goes away if liberal thought becomes permeated just different kinds of groupthinks.  One of the most effective ways to control how people think is to control the language;  "diversity' is a good word, so let's define "diversity" as "percentage of people that are not white and male".  It's disgusting and alarming.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 07:29:06 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 07:22:17 AM
It's disgusting and alarming.

OK, Tim. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 07:40:07 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 07:22:17 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 07:13:42 AM
If your beliefs can be shaken by such, perhaps they aren't all that deeply held to begin with.
No, I think Orwellian doublespeak, or blatant double standards, are pretty big issues.  I'm a liberal mainly because I like to think for myself, and because I think society functions best when it permits and encourages people to think for themselves. 

That reason goes away if liberal thought becomes permeated just different kinds of groupthinks.  One of the most effective ways to control how people think is to control the language;  "diversity' is a good word, so let's define "diversity" as "percentage of people that are not white and male".  It's disgusting and alarming.

Like Humpty Dumpty said, it's about who is the master - if you redefine the language, you redefine reality. This has been the "regressive left's" tactics for decades, with everything from rape to diversity to fascism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 07:44:43 AM
When it comes to 'fascism", it's a whole lot simpler.  Usually when people say "fascist" they mean "authoritarian", but "authoritarian" neither rolls off the tongue well, nor is it even easy to type.  So there is temptation to go with a much easier word, even though it is technically not very applicable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 23, 2016, 08:06:17 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 07:22:17 AM

No, I think Orwellian doublespeak, or blatant double standards, are pretty big issues.  I'm a liberal mainly because I like to think for myself, and because I think society functions best when it permits and encourages people to think for themselves. 


I imagine Berkut disagrees.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 08:15:22 AM
Luckily, there's real leftism, which holds as little truck with self-congratulatory identity politics as the right does.  We want to put the majority -- workers -- into power, not this minority or that, especially not when that group is an extraordinarily privileged one like the one pictured.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 23, 2016, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 07:13:42 AM
If your beliefs can be shaken by such, perhaps they aren't all that deeply held to begin with.

So, what you are saying is that we have always been at war with EastAsia?

It is always fascinating to watch the hypocritical at work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 08:25:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 23, 2016, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 07:13:42 AM
If your beliefs can be shaken by such, perhaps they aren't all that deeply held to begin with.

So, what you are saying is that we have always been at war with EastAsia?

It is always fascinating to watch the hypocritical at work.

I'm sorry but I don't follow you at all.

I do think there is something wrong with having one's beliefs shaken by a tweet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 08:25:48 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 08:15:22 AM
Luckily, there's real leftism, which holds as little truck with self-congratulatory identity politics as the right does.  We want to put the majority -- workers -- into power, not this minority or that, especially not when that group is an extraordinarily privileged one like the one pictured.

Yes that is rather tone deaf.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 08:30:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 08:25:13 AM
I do think there is something wrong with having one's beliefs shaken by a tweet.
:huh: I didn't say it was just a single tweet.  Do you even read the posts before you start composing witty comebacks?  Things add up to an impression, one piece of communication at a time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 08:30:58 AM
I see that Huff Po's entire editing staff looks under 35. How Ageist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 08:31:40 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 08:30:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 08:25:13 AM
I do think there is something wrong with having one's beliefs shaken by a tweet.
:huh: I didn't say it was just a single tweet.  Do you even read the posts before you start composing witty comebacks?  Things add up to an impression, one piece of communication at a time.

Okay, several social media posts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 09:12:37 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 08:15:22 AM
Luckily, there's real leftism, which holds as little truck with self-congratulatory identity politics as the right does.  We want to put the majority -- workers -- into power, not this minority or that, especially not when that group is an extraordinarily privileged one like the one pictured.

Fair enough. At least it's a honest way to convince me that I am not a leftist. :P

But I respect it more than identity politics, as perpetrated by one of the most privileged groups in human history, aka white Western middle class women.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 09:17:24 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 08:30:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 08:25:13 AM
I do think there is something wrong with having one's beliefs shaken by a tweet.
:huh: I didn't say it was just a single tweet.  Do you even read the posts before you start composing witty comebacks?  Things add up to an impression, one piece of communication at a time.

I wouldn't even say that your beliefs are "shaken" - it's just what used to be described as leftism/liberalism got highjacked by a bunch of ideologues with authoritarian tendencies, only with a scenography differing (as it was changed from "God, country and guns" to various identity groups and "oppression"). But from a Marxist perspective, the foundation/base is the same (keeping down the working class/rednecks) - only the superstructure has changed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 09:18:30 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 09:12:37 AM
But I respect it more than identity politics, as perpetrated by one of the most privileged groups in human history, aka white Western middle class women.

Well feminism has long been the doing of white Western middle class women. Only ones privileged enough to have the time to make a movement about it. Only with the emergence of 'identity politics' did feminism start to change when you had black women saying 'hey, those issues you, white ladies are all concerned about have little to do with the struggles we face as black women.'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 09:27:26 AM
To me identity politics is guilty of the same sin as any form of totalitarianism - it stops to view people as individuals and instead ascribes to them motivations, needs and agendas solely on the basis of their membership in a group, such as gender, race or sexuality (and even goes so far as to deny those who "break the lines" an independent agency, dehumanizing them as "self-hating", "uncle Toms" and similar epithets). As such, it is an enemy of any movement based on personal liberty and personal responsibility - in short the entire foundation of Western thought (from classical philosophy, to Christianity, to the Enlightenment).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 09:30:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 09:27:26 AM
To me identity politics is guilty of the same sin as any form of totalitarianism - it stops to view people as individuals and instead ascribes to them motivations, needs and agendas solely on the basis of their membership in a group, such as gender, race or sexuality (and even goes so far as to deny those who "break the lines" an independent agency, dehumanizing them as "self-hating", "uncle Toms" and similar epithets). As such, it is an enemy of any movement based on personal liberty and personal responsibility - in short the entire foundation of Western thought (from classical philosophy, to Christianity, to the Enlightenment).

I do wonder about people saying their identity is this big complicated intersection of all these naval gazing gender, race, and sexuality components. I mean I get those are part of who you are but surely ones identity is more about who you want to be as a person and what you want to do with your life than those things. But maybe that is just my 30-something brain talking since all that naval gazing stuff is something people tend to do when they are young.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 09:12:37 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 08:15:22 AM
Luckily, there's real leftism, which holds as little truck with self-congratulatory identity politics as the right does.  We want to put the majority -- workers -- into power, not this minority or that, especially not when that group is an extraordinarily privileged one like the one pictured.

Fair enough. At least it's a honest way to convince me that I am not a leftist. :P

But I respect it more than identity politics, as perpetrated by one of the most privileged groups in human history, aka white Western middle class women.

Making the ruling class more "diverse" by making bosses out of some women and/or non-white people is cold comfort to a lot of people who haven't a prayer of making even their grandchildren members of that class.

Hence the fundamental inadequacy of Clintonian finger-wagging and mock-horror that the "Trump Democrats" who gave Sanders those 80/20 primary victories (hint: not young affluent "Bros") couldn't give a shit about the welfare of a party steadfastly intent on rejecting their interests or of a candidate who continues to ignore them as the general election gets closer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 09:44:48 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
Making the ruling class more "diverse" by making bosses out of some women and/or non-white people is cold comfort to a lot of people who haven't a prayer of making even their grandchildren members of that class.

Hence the fundamental inadequacy of Clintonian finger-wagging and mock-horror that the "Trump Democrats" who gave Sanders those 80/20 primary victories (hint: not young affluent "Bros") couldn't give a shit about the welfare of a party steadfastly intent on rejecting their interests or of a candidate who continues to ignore them as the general election gets closer.

Free trade policies have lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty. The temporary pain will be well worth it in the end. Besides how large can the "ruling class" actually be? Putting everybody in the "ruling class" seems about as realistic as trying to make all children above average.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 09:52:44 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 09:44:48 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
Making the ruling class more "diverse" by making bosses out of some women and/or non-white people is cold comfort to a lot of people who haven't a prayer of making even their grandchildren members of that class.

Hence the fundamental inadequacy of Clintonian finger-wagging and mock-horror that the "Trump Democrats" who gave Sanders those 80/20 primary victories (hint: not young affluent "Bros") couldn't give a shit about the welfare of a party steadfastly intent on rejecting their interests or of a candidate who continues to ignore them as the general election gets closer.

Free trade policies have lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty. The temporary pain will be well worth it in the end. Besides how large can the "ruling class" actually be? Putting everybody in the "ruling class" seems about as realistic as trying to make all children above average.

Hint: the point is eliminating the existence of a ruling class.

And I'll just sit here and wait for the voluminous evidence that "free trade" policies have "lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty"; or else I'll just assert that they have equally consigned hundreds of millions to permanent economic instability and dependency.  "Oh but all those Bangladeshis making Nikes for $0.35 an hour were worse as rice farmers!" -- when the prospect of Bangladesh industrialisizing (and being permitted to industrialize) via an ISI scheme isn't contemplated as an alternative; it's either the neoliberal status quo or feudal rice farming, and that's it.

EDIT:  Turkey, India, and Brazil -- to name a few important players, and not to mention China! -- didn't lift their millions out of poverty post-1945 by abjectly accepting the "free trade" conditions imposed upon them by the Western powers, if you'd bother to do the homework for yourself instead of accepting the rationale of the World Bank/IMF/(Eurozone?) that any other means of development is impossible.

EDIT 2:  And the instability of places like the Shah's Iran and various Latin American and Middle Eastern countries is precisely due to the export-commodity-oriented demands of the Western powers and the subsequent neoliberal ideology (of dismantling the social state, etc.) that formed around it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 23, 2016, 10:00:15 AM
I love you Mihali but such first world city dweller logic can get on my nerves. If you think it is such an injustice to lift a country out of subsistence farming it is still not too late for you to find a piece of land somewhere where you can live the True Life.

Just because people invested in shitholes for the own profit and not for the welfare of the general population, and that the process of improvement isn't an overnight thing, it does not make it bad, or net negative.

I know it is much more fun from the outside to let the third world remain on their farms and their funny little huts but let's give the chance to those who want more, shall we?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 09:30:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 09:27:26 AM
To me identity politics is guilty of the same sin as any form of totalitarianism - it stops to view people as individuals and instead ascribes to them motivations, needs and agendas solely on the basis of their membership in a group, such as gender, race or sexuality (and even goes so far as to deny those who "break the lines" an independent agency, dehumanizing them as "self-hating", "uncle Toms" and similar epithets). As such, it is an enemy of any movement based on personal liberty and personal responsibility - in short the entire foundation of Western thought (from classical philosophy, to Christianity, to the Enlightenment).

I do wonder about people saying their identity is this big complicated intersection of all these naval gazing gender, race, and sexuality components. I mean I get those are part of who you are but surely ones identity is more about who you want to be as a person and what you want to do with your life than those things. But maybe that is just my 30-something brain talking since all that naval gazing stuff is something people tend to do when they are young.

Well I would love to just be who I am as a person but this pesky brown skin, well people ascribe judgments and motivations to it. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 10:08:06 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 23, 2016, 10:00:15 AM
I love you Mihali but such first world city dweller logic can get on my nerves. If you think it is such an injustice to lift a country out of subsistence farming it is still not too late for you to find a piece of land somewhere where you can live the True Life.

Just because people invested in shitholes for the own profit and not for the welfare of the general population, and that the process of improvement isn't an overnight thing, it does not make it bad, or net negative.

I know it is much more fun from the outside to let the third world remain on their farms and their funny little huts but let's give the chance to those who want more, shall we?

:rolleyes:  I love you too Tamas, but this is really the most laughable kind of argument.  It's not too late for you find yourself a plot of land in the Third World and show them the glories of free-market capitalism, either.  Why aren't you on that ship?  Why did you instead catch the ship in the other direction, rather than convincing your fellow Hungarians of the free market's glories?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 23, 2016, 10:10:39 AM
Because I tried and I failed :P

I am sorry but I fly off the handle every time someone argues against modernisation on the grounds of "what they have is good enough for them". It's racist and condescending when the one saying it does not share the same living conditions and general outlook for the future.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:11:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 10:07:18 AM
Well I would love to just be who I am as a person but this pesky brown skin, well people ascribe judgments and motivations to it. :(

Sure people ascribe things to me based on all that shit to. But that is not who I am.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 23, 2016, 10:15:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:11:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 10:07:18 AM
Well I would love to just be who I am as a person but this pesky brown skin, well people ascribe judgments and motivations to it. :(

Sure people ascribe things to me based on all that shit to. But that is not who I am.

It isn't who I am either - but it would also be a mistake to ignore the impact that such an 'identity' (though foisted on me by others) has as an impact. I think it would also be a mistake to not wish for that to change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 10:16:33 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 23, 2016, 10:10:39 AM
every time someone argues against modernisation on the grounds of "what they have is good enough for them". It's racist and condescending when the one saying it does not share the same living conditions and general outlook for the future.

:huh:  I'd object to those grounds for an argument against modernization as well, just as strenuously as you.  It just happens that I'm arguing for modernization on different grounds than you.  And I find that no more racist and condescending than anything a relatively privileged member of a globally privileged society can say about the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:17:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 23, 2016, 10:10:39 AM
I am sorry but I fly off the handle every time someone argues against modernisation on the grounds of "what they have is good enough for them". It's racist and condescending when the one saying it does not share the same living conditions and general outlook for the future.

But the savages are so noble Tamas! Why corrupt them with our decadent ways? :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:18:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 10:15:54 AM
It isn't who I am either - but it would also be a mistake to ignore the impact that such an 'identity' (though foisted on me by others) has as an impact. I think it would also be a mistake to not wish for that to change.

That is not what I am objecting to though. It is people claiming a race/gender/sexuality identity for themselves rather than fighting some bullshit foisted upon them by assholes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 10:19:56 AM
If you want to talk about racist and condescending, the "$0.35 an hour sewing Nikes is good enough for them; after all, they'd be tenant farmers in the rice paddies otherwise" argument advanced by the "free market" crowd had a good lead on anything the socialists produce.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 23, 2016, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:11:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 10:07:18 AM
Well I would love to just be who I am as a person but this pesky brown skin, well people ascribe judgments and motivations to it. :(

Sure people ascribe things to me based on all that shit to. But that is not who I am.

To be fair us white straight males don't have to worry about that. I am not saying the whole PC and equality thing isn't getting overblown by the shrill elements, but you and I really can't know it because we never encounter it.

Silly example coming: it was enough of a taste of the uncomfortable position of being on the receiving end of stereotypes (and how minor it was!) living in the UK during the election campaign and seeing that my demographic (East European immigrants) are the cause of every bad thing befalling the Englishmen, right down to traffic jams.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 10:21:50 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 09:12:37 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 08:15:22 AM
Luckily, there's real leftism, which holds as little truck with self-congratulatory identity politics as the right does.  We want to put the majority -- workers -- into power, not this minority or that, especially not when that group is an extraordinarily privileged one like the one pictured.

Fair enough. At least it's a honest way to convince me that I am not a leftist. :P

But I respect it more than identity politics, as perpetrated by one of the most privileged groups in human history, aka white Western middle class women.

Making the ruling class more "diverse" by making bosses out of some women and/or non-white people is cold comfort to a lot of people who haven't a prayer of making even their grandchildren members of that class.

Hence the fundamental inadequacy of Clintonian finger-wagging and mock-horror that the "Trump Democrats" who gave Sanders those 80/20 primary victories (hint: not young affluent "Bros") couldn't give a shit about the welfare of a party steadfastly intent on rejecting their interests or of a candidate who continues to ignore them as the general election gets closer.

Yeah, it's basically what the Onion is lampooning in this article I posted in the elections thread:

QuoteShocking: The Average Female CEO Only Makes 258 Times What Her Employees Make
Posted Feb. 12, 2015

Wow. We knew that gender inequality in America was bad, but according to an alarming new study, it's actually much worse than anyone could've thought.

A recently released report from the U.S. Census Bureau revealed that female CEOs in America make a paltry 258 times what their average employee makes, while male CEOs make an average of 331 times more than theirs. That's a pay gap of nearly 23 percent, which in dollar value—per median salary of U.S. CEOs—translates to an average disparity of $2.57 million, or enough to buy approximately 12 Aston Martins.

These numbers empirically prove that inequality is alive and well in the United States. It's hard to fathom that in 2015, women who take the same cutthroat routes to the peak of the corporate ladder as their male peers are still only earning the commensurate income of a combined 258 subordinates. This means these women are being forced to get by on just $8 million to $9 million a year (and that's before taxes!).

If true equality is ever to be achieved, then the wealth needs to funnel away from the pockets of the topmost male earners and into the offshore accounts of the women who are every bit as deserving. Why should male executives be able to afford five or six mountain estates across the world while their female counterparts are forced to make do with just four?

Share this article if you believe that gender discrimination is out of control and that female CEOs should be able to afford the same number of private jets and luxury yachts as male CEOs. It's just what's right.

http://www.clickhole.com/article/shocking-average-female-ceo-only-makes-258-times-w-1847
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 09:44:48 AM
The temporary pain will be well worth it in the end.

You are Tyrion Lannister arguing that 7 years of slavery is nothing. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 23, 2016, 10:23:17 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 09:52:44 AM

Hint: the point is eliminating the existence of a ruling class.

And I'll just sit here and wait for the voluminous evidence that "free trade" policies have "lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty"; or else I'll just assert that they have equally consigned hundreds of millions to permanent economic instability and dependency.  "Oh but all those Bangladeshis making Nikes for $0.35 an hour were worse as rice farmers!" -- when the prospect of Bangladesh industrialisizing (and being permitted to industrialize) via an ISI scheme isn't contemplated as an alternative; it's either the neoliberal status quo or feudal rice farming, and that's it.

EDIT:  Turkey, India, and Brazil -- to name a few important players, and not to mention China! -- didn't lift their millions out of poverty post-1945 by abjectly accepting the "free trade" conditions imposed upon them by the Western powers, if you'd bother to do the homework for yourself instead of accepting the rationale of the World Bank/IMF/(Eurozone?) that any other means of development is impossible.

EDIT 2:  And the instability of places like the Shah's Iran and various Latin American and Middle Eastern countries is precisely due to the export-commodity-oriented demands of the Western powers and the subsequent neoliberal ideology (of dismantling the social state, etc.) that formed around it.

What nonsense.  First you can't eliminate ruling classes.  As soon as you do, a new one has to take its place (see NomenKlatura of the Soviet Union), second Turkey, India, Brazil and China are all still desperately poor.  India has had notoriously slow growth following WWII, especially compared to a country like South Korea.  The economic growth of these nations in the last 30 years has been because of the partial rejection of the "other means of development".

Iran, the middle East, and Latin America were unstable for a long time before the neoliberal ideology took hold in the late 1970's.  In fact stability has increased dramatically since the end of the Cold War.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 23, 2016, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 09:30:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 09:27:26 AM
To me identity politics is guilty of the same sin as any form of totalitarianism - it stops to view people as individuals and instead ascribes to them motivations, needs and agendas solely on the basis of their membership in a group, such as gender, race or sexuality (and even goes so far as to deny those who "break the lines" an independent agency, dehumanizing them as "self-hating", "uncle Toms" and similar epithets). As such, it is an enemy of any movement based on personal liberty and personal responsibility - in short the entire foundation of Western thought (from classical philosophy, to Christianity, to the Enlightenment).

I do wonder about people saying their identity is this big complicated intersection of all these naval gazing gender, race, and sexuality components. I mean I get those are part of who you are but surely ones identity is more about who you want to be as a person and what you want to do with your life than those things. But maybe that is just my 30-something brain talking since all that naval gazing stuff is something people tend to do when they are young.

Well I would love to just be who I am as a person but this pesky brown skin, well people ascribe judgments and motivations to it. :(

This "pesky brown skin" with Stanford education and better job and flat than 90% of people on Languish. So cry me a river. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:26:49 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 10:19:56 AM
If you want to talk about racist and condescending, the "$0.35 an hour sewing Nikes is good enough for them; after all, they'd be tenant farmers in the rice paddies otherwise" argument advanced by the "free market" crowd had a good lead on anything the socialists produce.

Offering economic opportunities is racist and condescending? $0.35 an hour is not good enough but you have to start someplace. What is your non-racist and non-condescending plan?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:28:45 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 09:44:48 AM
The temporary pain will be well worth it in the end.

You are Tyrion Lannister arguing that 7 years of slavery is nothing. :P

More like 7 years on welfare, these are first world workers we are talking about. We put together a plan for world economic development. Statistics show it is working. I presume you had a better plan?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 10:30:56 AM
India, Brazil, and China are by no means "desperately poor" on a global basis.  And SK was permitted to introduce the kind of tariffs necessary to stimulate domestic industrialization, not to mention the anomaly of having a superpower dedicated to its success, ready to buy its goods, to supply it with foreign aid, and to loan it money at advantageous rates.  From the other side of the Cold War, Cuba was relatively successful at industrializing under similar circumstances, too, even though they remained dependent on the export of sugar and coffee.

EDIT:  And yes, Iran's stability has increased quite notably since the 1979 revolution. :lol:  The "banana republics" were, in a sense, a crude neoliberalism avant la lettre; one liberally enforced by US military intervention where states were prohibited from any kind of internal development and were induced/forced to base their economy around export-oriented commodities, often a single commodity -- like bananas.  So their pre-1945 lack of stability really cuts against your argument rather than in favor of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 10:32:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:28:45 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 09:44:48 AM
The temporary pain will be well worth it in the end.

You are Tyrion Lannister arguing that 7 years of slavery is nothing. :P

More like 7 years on welfare, these are first world workers we are talking about. We put together a plan for world economic development. Statistics show it is working. I presume you had a better plan?

I don't. I am just saying it is not a convincing argument if we are talking about "temporary pain" of yourself or that of your loved ones.

Frankly speaking, despite my ideological soul searching for the last decades, I don't have a very good plan how to improve people's lives en masse. So far, generally giving people as much freedom as possible, while reacting to biggest injustice and helping those in greatest suffering out of charity, seems like the best solution - even though it is not terribly original nor perfect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 23, 2016, 10:43:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:26:49 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 10:19:56 AM
If you want to talk about racist and condescending, the "$0.35 an hour sewing Nikes is good enough for them; after all, they'd be tenant farmers in the rice paddies otherwise" argument advanced by the "free market" crowd had a good lead on anything the socialists produce.

Offering economic opportunities is racist and condescending? $0.35 an hour is not good enough but you have to start someplace. What is your non-racist and non-condescending plan?
Force the foreign companies to pay their workers in Bangladesh $7/hour, they're just as human as the American workers.  If you implement this plan, I guarantee you that there will be a massive reduction in the number of upsetting stories leftists in the west will get to see.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 10:48:43 AM
:rolleyes: Because that's what anyone has said.  I hate to say it, but less of a strawman couldn't be found in the Wizard of Oz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:54:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 10:32:21 AM

I don't. I am just saying it is not a convincing argument if we are talking about "temporary pain" of yourself or that of your loved ones.

Frankly speaking, despite my ideological soul searching for the last decades, I don't have a very good plan how to improve people's lives en masse. So far, generally giving people as much freedom as possible, while reacting to biggest injustice and helping those in greatest suffering out of charity, seems like the best solution - even though it is not terribly original nor perfect.

Well nothing is free. Considering the short term issues the free trade regime was likely to bring on I think things have gone...alright. I was worried it would be worse.

I am all for charity and welfare to help people out and give them the ability to better themselves. But economic opportunities had to come as well. Opening up the markets of the developed world had to be done in order to grow those local economies. Eventually that should provide better opportunities for the workers back home.

QuoteForce the foreign companies to pay their workers in Bangladesh $7/hour, they're just as human as the American workers.  If you implement this plan, I guarantee you that there will be a massive reduction in the number of upsetting stories leftists in the west will get to see.

I know you are joking but as more and more countries pass laws like (or rather have labor markets that demand pay like this) this over time there will be fewer and fewer places the corporations can economically move to. At least that is the plan :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 23, 2016, 11:08:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:54:20 AM


I know you are joking but as more and more countries pass laws like (or rather have labor markets that demand pay like this) this over time there will be fewer and fewer places the corporations can economically move to. At least that is the plan :P


well yeah that is just the thing: if we don't mess it up with protections systems and wars, eventually, the western worker will earn a bit less, third world workers will earn much more, and it will more or less balance itself out minus local specialties.

i.e. what Mihali and the other lefties talk of wanting, but in fact not wanting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 10:54:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 10:32:21 AM

I don't. I am just saying it is not a convincing argument if we are talking about "temporary pain" of yourself or that of your loved ones.

Frankly speaking, despite my ideological soul searching for the last decades, I don't have a very good plan how to improve people's lives en masse. So far, generally giving people as much freedom as possible, while reacting to biggest injustice and helping those in greatest suffering out of charity, seems like the best solution - even though it is not terribly original nor perfect.

Well nothing is free. Considering the short term issues the free trade regime was likely to bring on I think things have gone...alright. I was worried it would be worse.

I am all for charity and welfare to help people out and give them the ability to better themselves. But economic opportunities had to come as well. Opening up the markets of the developed world had to be done in order to grow those local economies. Eventually that should provide better opportunities for the workers back home.

You misunderstood me. I am not saying we should not do any of those things - I am just saying that the "long term benefit for the economy" is not a great consolation for people who lost their jobs in the Rust Belt, for example.

That is why more freedom* should be the rule of thumb - because when you try to have everyone follow your master plan, there will always be winners and losers - and telling the losers they are the collateral damage to your Grand Design for the Bettermen of Humanity (tm) is a tad hypocritical.

*At least at the level of a nation or a group of nations agreeing to follow the same rules (such as the EU). This gets much more tricky when you have different nations following different rules, when some of them just play dirty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 23, 2016, 11:11:19 AM
Shouldn't this discussion be in the Venezuela thread?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 23, 2016, 12:04:55 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 10:30:56 AM
India, Brazil, and China are by no means "desperately poor" on a global basis.  And SK was permitted to introduce the kind of tariffs necessary to stimulate domestic industrialization, not to mention the anomaly of having a superpower dedicated to its success, ready to buy its goods, to supply it with foreign aid, and to loan it money at advantageous rates.  From the other side of the Cold War, Cuba was relatively successful at industrializing under similar circumstances, too, even though they remained dependent on the export of sugar and coffee.

EDIT:  And yes, Iran's stability has increased quite notably since the 1979 revolution. :lol:  The "banana republics" were, in a sense, a crude neoliberalism avant la lettre; one liberally enforced by US military intervention where states were prohibited from any kind of internal development and were induced/forced to base their economy around export-oriented commodities, often a single commodity -- like bananas.  So their pre-1945 lack of stability really cuts against your argument rather than in favor of it.

India, China, and Brazil are pretty poor.  Tell, who "let" S. Korea prosper?  Why didn't they "let" India prosper?  Latin America was pretty unstable before the US ever became a major power or before any country adopted the first liberalism.  Their instability was the cause of American influence, not the result of it.  A strong stable country doesn't have other people set up dictators.  You may have noticed that the US efforts to control Canada didn't work out so well.  In a sense, the economies and governments were Latin America were left overs of traditional economies and governments of European colonies.  In fact, a much more real sense then any avant la lettre of "Neoliberalism".  Somehow I doubt that the Hacienda owners had a prescient knowledge of 1970's and 1980's economic fads.  In fact, the economic systems of Latin America are very much like the one that existed in the US prior to the US civil war, when the liberals destroyed it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 23, 2016, 02:01:09 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 23, 2016, 10:30:56 AM
India, Brazil, and China are by no means "desperately poor" on a global basis.  And SK was permitted to introduce the kind of tariffs necessary to stimulate domestic industrialization, not to mention the anomaly of having a superpower dedicated to its success, ready to buy its goods, to supply it with foreign aid, and to loan it money at advantageous rates.  From the other side of the Cold War, Cuba was relatively successful at industrializing under similar circumstances, too, even though they remained dependent on the export of sugar and coffee.

China was desperately poor before Deng opened the economy.  Working from memory, per capita income was $54 a year under Mao.  Cuba hasn't been a success at anything.  Cuban income is $20 a month and 3 eggs a week.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 02:13:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 23, 2016, 11:11:19 AM
Shouldn't this discussion be in the Venezuela thread?

No, that's the thread for discussing Bernie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2016, 02:19:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 23, 2016, 11:10:03 AM
You misunderstood me. I am not saying we should not do any of those things - I am just saying that the "long term benefit for the economy" is not a great consolation for people who lost their jobs in the Rust Belt, for example.

Well obviously. Some of those Rust Belt cities are still doing pretty well though.

QuoteThat is why more freedom* should be the rule of thumb - because when you try to have everyone follow your master plan, there will always be winners and losers - and telling the losers they are the collateral damage to your Grand Design for the Bettermen of Humanity (tm) is a tad hypocritical.

I am not saying they are collateral damage, only that we are making a long term investment that will ultimately be to their benefit. Also having the majority of the population of the world in extreme poverty is dangerous.

Quote*At least at the level of a nation or a group of nations agreeing to follow the same rules (such as the EU). This gets much more tricky when you have different nations following different rules, when some of them just play dirty.

True.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2016, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 23, 2016, 12:04:55 PM
You may have noticed that the US efforts to control Canada didn't work out so well.
Well, Trudeau and Obama sure acted like old pals, so...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 26, 2016, 12:16:20 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13243740_566575470171140_8243057122093269524_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 26, 2016, 02:27:34 PM
Lulz, cloth armor
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 27, 2016, 10:53:25 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13254762_10154042151231413_1501714372188224892_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 27, 2016, 10:54:57 AM
What am I looking at here? Some dudes chatting with a bicycle cop in the 1970s?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 27, 2016, 10:58:19 AM
Yip
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on May 27, 2016, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 23, 2016, 11:11:19 AM
Shouldn't this discussion be in the Venezuela thread?

I lol'ed  :P I take back the mean shit I said about you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on May 27, 2016, 02:00:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 27, 2016, 10:58:19 AM
Yip

How is that a facebook follies? I dun ged it
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 27, 2016, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 27, 2016, 02:00:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 27, 2016, 10:58:19 AM
Yip

How is that a facebook follies? I dun ged it
a white cop talking to black dudes with his gun holstered.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 27, 2016, 02:58:47 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 27, 2016, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 27, 2016, 02:00:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 27, 2016, 10:58:19 AM
Yip

How is that a facebook follies? I dun ged it
a white cop talking to black dudes with his gun holstered.

Ding Ding
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 30, 2016, 09:51:33 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13138991_1341678315845925_2369799869785639338_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=3d9a7c0003e4bf17244eea6ff9661f1f&oe=57C878AE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on May 30, 2016, 11:22:37 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13263774_10153515393975896_947043532172105515_n.jpg?oh=887e72b4bcb3c5be4fccddd374ddde3c&oe=57C47E15)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 01, 2016, 01:09:53 PM
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-06/1/8/enhanced/buzzfeed-prod-web04/grid-cell-1978-1464782769-4.jpg)(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-06/1/8/enhanced/buzzfeed-prod-web04/grid-cell-1978-1464782770-9.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 01, 2016, 07:37:42 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13325517_1397032833664362_418335236585550870_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=088ddddd6ea40ecc389db740596bd8c2&oe=57DC50AE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on June 02, 2016, 02:50:35 AM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/13254329_10209872078464329_593786034681706205_n.jpg?oh=9982d0ea8175ae97c892e2e865c34c26&oe=57D0E7E1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 02, 2016, 08:00:40 AM
They're right.  It's even better than Obama killing a fly during that interview early in his presidency.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 02, 2016, 11:55:53 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13339629_10154055049055999_4229233536795939974_n.jpg?oh=c51e2ae86b3778a252b3642bdb0bcb14&oe=57DB8C8F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on June 02, 2016, 11:58:31 AM
 :lol:  I saw that one earlier today, GF.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 02, 2016, 01:16:39 PM
I talked to someone I went to school with on facebook the other day.  Guy was a smart kid.  Now he's completly bonkers.  Really hates cops, think we live in a police state.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 02, 2016, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 02, 2016, 01:16:39 PM
I talked to someone I went to school with on facebook the other day.  Guy was a smart kid.  Now he's completly bonkers.  Really hates cops, think we live in a police state.
Is he a Bernie bro?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 02, 2016, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 02, 2016, 01:16:39 PM
I talked to someone I went to school with on facebook the other day.  Guy was a smart kid.  Now he's completly bonkers.  Really hates cops, think we live in a police state.

Both sound like evidence he's still a smart fellow.  Got anything else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 02, 2016, 02:50:22 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 02, 2016, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 02, 2016, 01:16:39 PM
I talked to someone I went to school with on facebook the other day.  Guy was a smart kid.  Now he's completly bonkers.  Really hates cops, think we live in a police state.

Both sound like evidence he's still a smart fellow.  Got anything else?

Libertarian.  Believes that "they" are about to launch a military coup to prevent the American people from "waking up".  Big into "Men's rights".  I remember him as a drug dealer, and I think his problem with cops is not brutality, but because cops enforce laws he doesn't really care to abide by.  His libertarianism is rather confused, as it includes both positive and negative rights.  The right "not to have government in every aspect of your life", and the right to drink water without hormones in it.

The guy is a smart fellow.  One of the smartest in our school.  Unfortunately smart doesn't mean well adjusted or sane.  He can't keep a job and only gets hired for menial positions.  I think his real problem is with authority.  Some smart people get really unhappy at the idea they have to follow laws enacted by people they don't think are as smart as they are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 02, 2016, 02:58:05 PM
The guy sounds like a typical Asparagus.  Intelligence without sound judgment is a dangerous mix.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 02, 2016, 03:13:12 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 02, 2016, 02:58:05 PM
The guy sounds like a typical Asparagus.  Intelligence without sound judgment is a dangerous mix.

:mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 02, 2016, 03:15:30 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 02, 2016, 02:58:05 PM
The guy sounds like a typical Asparagus.  Intelligence without sound judgment is a dangerous mix.

No, just a belligerent blowhard with an authority problem.  I wouldn't doubt he has a rap sheet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 02, 2016, 06:28:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 02, 2016, 02:50:22 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 02, 2016, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 02, 2016, 01:16:39 PM
I talked to someone I went to school with on facebook the other day.  Guy was a smart kid.  Now he's completly bonkers.  Really hates cops, think we live in a police state.

Both sound like evidence he's still a smart fellow.  Got anything else?

Libertarian.  Believes that "they" are about to launch a military coup to prevent the American people from "waking up".  Big into "Men's rights". 

OK, you've got plenty.
 
QuoteThe guy is a smart fellow.  One of the smartest in our school.  Unfortunately smart doesn't mean well adjusted or sane.  He can't keep a job and only gets hired for menial positions.  I think his real problem is with authority.  Some smart people get really unhappy at the idea they have to follow laws enacted by people they don't think are as smart as they are.

Anyways, that's too bad his intellect is going to waste.  Of course they're right that a lot of the people enacting laws don't get to their law-making position by virtue of being particularly smart, or at least go out of their way to convince people they aren't very smart and don't value smartness (Seedy's recent Hoftstadter avatar comes to mind).  And that a lot of important laws aren't enacted for smart reasons, but for other reasons, like pandering, parochial sentiment, or (as with the case of drug laws) raw punitiveness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 02, 2016, 10:16:05 PM
The whole thing started cause he posted like a dozen things of Facebook from something called https://www.facebook.com/policethepoliceACP  I have no problem with the idea of filming the police, and I know some cops have assaulted people who do so which is wrong.

We both agreed there are bad cops in the US, but I attribute this to structural problems and he to a conspiracy.  He was particularly pissed about police acquiring military equipment, which doesn't really bother me.  He saw that as preparation for some big take over, while I saw it as result of the way Federal grants work and the US government trying to offload equipment it doesn't need anymore.  He believed that we have such high prison rate is evidence of a police state, while I see it as evidence of decades of voters demanding that politicians enact "tough on crime" laws and politicians happily doing so without caring about the consequences.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 03, 2016, 05:39:56 AM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13310519_863518540077_8145419508803976040_n.jpg?oh=5c327693af0412e6d3f64f7d43fa73d7&oe=57CC461D)

Courtesy of fhdz. Not sure what to make of Sanders supporters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 03, 2016, 08:59:16 AM
Loopy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 03, 2016, 09:38:23 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13227555_1136719036394579_6252034262478574670_o.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 03, 2016, 08:01:31 PM
Rednecks  :lol:

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13240079_1116187308424362_5183273869183576131_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=c286a4d081574212df41293330d370b7&oe=57C8B016)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on June 04, 2016, 07:01:20 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkFc_LVWgAAxjTX.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 01:05:44 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xla1/t31.0-8/13308745_10153622579066787_8076604020493843092_o.jpg)

Apparently it's not a parody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 06, 2016, 01:30:32 AM
acronyms should be denoted in text, in parenthesis, after the phrase is fully written out. not hidden for the reader to find. shit activism there
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on June 06, 2016, 01:55:37 AM
I thought PoC was a no no for the PC?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 06, 2016, 02:07:36 AM
"even if a People of Color isn't in the room"? Mad language skilz. Or huge room.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on June 06, 2016, 02:21:40 AM
(https://images-2.discordapp.net/eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2Rpc2NvcmQuc3RvcmFnZS5nb29nbGVhcGlzLmNvbS9hdHRhY2htZW50cy8xNzQ1MjA3MjU2MzIzMTk0ODgvMTg5Mjc2ODk2NTE5NzgyNDAxL0lNR182MTQxLkpQRyJ9.LKMoJfilmwx_UQE0FolibNe9SYo.JPG)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 06, 2016, 02:24:37 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 06, 2016, 01:55:37 AM
I thought PoC was a no no for the PC?

Colored people is a definite no no, people of color is as PC as it gets.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on June 06, 2016, 03:18:53 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 06, 2016, 02:24:37 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 06, 2016, 01:55:37 AM
I thought PoC was a no no for the PC?

Colored people is a definite no no, people of color is as PC as it gets.

What's the difference?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 06, 2016, 04:09:29 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 06, 2016, 03:18:53 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 06, 2016, 02:24:37 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 06, 2016, 01:55:37 AM
I thought PoC was a no no for the PC?

Colored people is a definite no no, people of color is as PC as it gets.

What's the difference?

Judean People's front v People's Front of Judea
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 04:25:45 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/13335738_10153367759001706_1070673549149809648_n.jpg?oh=75600b05dc672e500865027b82e3c5c1&oe=57D3650D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 08:21:32 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 01:05:44 AM
Apparently it's not a parody.

It is basically what I heard before. There was a segment on NPR where some activist was telling white people how we can help protesting police violence against black people. It was entirely stuff we should not do, which I found convenient. Not doing stuff is certainly an easy way to help out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 06, 2016, 08:24:11 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 06, 2016, 03:18:53 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 06, 2016, 02:24:37 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 06, 2016, 01:55:37 AM
I thought PoC was a no no for the PC?

Colored people is a definite no no, people of color is as PC as it gets.

What's the difference?
Couple of decades on euphemism treadmill.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 08:29:42 AM
It seems a bit disturbing to think we still need a term to encompass all non-white folks when they come from hundreds of cultures around the world. But, as the last few years have so depressingly demonstrated, this cancer of racism continues to infect us pretty severely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 08:39:08 AM
I just wonder what something like "stop contributing to gentrification" means? Not moving into neighbourhood inhabited by black people? Choosing a dingy run down unsanitary old joint instead of a nicer new coffee shop with organic coffee, when given a chance? Making sure every newly painted wall is immediately sprayed with graffitti?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 08:56:43 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 08:39:08 AM
I just wonder what something like "stop contributing to gentrification" means? Not moving into neighbourhood inhabited by black people? Choosing a dingy run down unsanitary old joint instead of a nicer new coffee shop with organic coffee, when given a chance? Making sure every newly painted wall is immediately sprayed with graffitti?

I don't know. Property values are going up for everybody, if we knew how to make property values super cheap so poor home owners wouldn't be forced by property taxes to move well we would already be doing that. But as a Texan I kind of see neighborhoods as transitory. So the black neighborhoods move outwards to the suburbs. Isn't that better? More space? Better quality of life? People are always bitching about the 'inner cities' right? But hey I am not the dude having to abandon my 100 year old neighborhood so what do I know?

But since I am stuck out in the suburbs with the rest of the middle class slobs I guess I am doing my bit. The only thing we gentrified was a long abandoned 19th century ranch. FIGHT TEH POWAH and so forth.

That request tends to suggest the assumption is the white audience being addressed are wealthy urban dwellers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 09:07:04 AM
Yeah I get why gentrification is bad for some people - my question was more how you stop contributing to it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 09:08:01 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 09:07:04 AM
Yeah I get why gentrification is bad for some people - my question was more how you stop contributing to it?

Live in the suburbs and let the inner cities decay again I guess. But really please don't, I don't want to see our property values skyrocket even faster than they are. I will be gentrified out into a farm village somewhere.

I guess some government help might exist, like letting people below a certain income live in those areas tax free or something. But there will still be people eager to sell their property for hundreds of thousands of dollars and generally governments like increasing their tax base not reducing it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 06, 2016, 09:10:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 09:07:04 AM
Yeah I get why gentrification is bad for some people - my question was more how you stop contributing to it?

Stop voting for champagne left parties? They are not too friendly to the local blue collars and prefer to get bobo votes or extra-european origin immigration votes, at least in France.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 06, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 09:07:04 AM
Yeah I get why gentrification is bad for some people - my question was more how you stop contributing to it?

As white people? Stop leaving you current neighborhood when black people start showing up & living in the neighborhood.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 09:16:51 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 06, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
As white people? Stop leaving you current neighborhood when black people start showing up & living in the neighborhood.

What does that have to do with gentrification? I thought that was white people moving into black neighborhoods and driving up the price. Everybody leaving a neighborhood would seem to drive down prices.

Also I cannot stop doing that since I have never done it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on June 06, 2016, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 06, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 09:07:04 AM
Yeah I get why gentrification is bad for some people - my question was more how you stop contributing to it?

As white people? Stop leaving you current neighborhood when black people start showing up & living in the neighborhood.

They smell funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 06, 2016, 09:38:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 09:16:51 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 06, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
As white people? Stop leaving you current neighborhood when black people start showing up & living in the neighborhood.

What does that have to do with gentrification? I thought that was white people moving into black neighborhoods and driving up the price. Everybody leaving a neighborhood would seem to drive down prices.

Also I cannot stop doing that since I have never done it.

I understand it as white people moving to a poor neighborhood & pricing it out for the current residents.

It does, the original neighborhood sees it's prices go down since all the white people are leaving it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 09:54:17 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 06, 2016, 09:38:16 AMIt does, the original neighborhood sees it's prices go down since all the white people are leaving it.

Right so the opposite of gentrification.

QuoteI understand it as white people moving to a poor neighborhood & pricing it out for the current residents.

Right so how would lowering the prices force the current residents out? Property taxes would go down, hence making it easier to keep your house.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:05:42 AM
Here's a list of things that a person can personally do.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/10/9-ways-privileged-gentrification/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 06, 2016, 10:07:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 09:54:17 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 06, 2016, 09:38:16 AMIt does, the original neighborhood sees it's prices go down since all the white people are leaving it.

Right so the opposite of gentrification.

QuoteI understand it as white people moving to a poor neighborhood & pricing it out for the current residents.

Right so how would lowering the prices force the current residents out? Property taxes would go down, hence making it easier to keep your house.

2 different neighborhood.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:08:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:05:42 AM
Here's a list of things that a person can personally do.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/10/9-ways-privileged-gentrification/

everydayfeminism.com? :bleeding:

And you guys shit on me for linking breitbart.com. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 06, 2016, 10:09:57 AM
This place just makes me feel sad inside.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:11:55 AM
Gentrification rocks.  In the past decade has turned Over-the-Rhine into a fun place full of good restaurants, bars, and four (so far) breweries.  I can take my kids there during the day.  Many, many historic buildings have been saved and it's a place the city can be proud of again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:13:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:08:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:05:42 AM
Here's a list of things that a person can personally do.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/10/9-ways-privileged-gentrification/

everydayfeminism.com? :bleeding:

And you guys shit on me for linking breitbart.com. :D

It is what popped up when I did a google search. I'm not saying you should regularly read it. Though I don't really find any issue with feminism everyday.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 06, 2016, 10:14:05 AM
Calling poor run-down neighborhoods "communities" in the context of opposing that to the cruel soullesness of "gentrified" i.e. not run-down neighbourhoods has to be  one of the most condescending/racist stereotypes around. If I were from such "communities" I would be appaled at the arrogance and condescending attitude of any sheltered idiots coming to my area's defense.  I would probably utilise them to avoid having to relocate/lose my juicy free council flat, but I would despise and hate them inside.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:11:55 AM
Gentrification rocks.  In the past decade has turned Over-the-Rhine into a fun place full of good restaurants, bars, and four (so far) breweries.  I can take my kids there during the day.  Many, many historic buildings have been saved and it's a place the city can be proud of again.

Well yes, gentrification is pretty awesome if in your favor. It is great for me but I can also see how it has downsides for others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:16:09 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 06, 2016, 10:14:05 AM
Calling poor run-down neighborhoods "communities" in the context of opposing that to the cruel soullesness of "gentrified" i.e. not run-down neighbourhoods has to be  one of the most condescending/racist stereotypes around. If I were from such "communities" I would be appaled at the arrogance and condescending attitude of any sheltered idiots coming to my area's defense.  I would probably utilise them to avoid having to relocate/lose my juicy free council flat, but I would despise and hate them inside.

But that's what they are. They are indeed communities which they often aren't post-gentrification.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 06, 2016, 10:21:54 AM
I think both sides have a point there.  Tamas is right that there is a lot of implied condescension in anti-gentrification rhetoric.  Garbon is right in that gentrified communities tend to be soulless.  I live in one, and it most definitely is. 

Maybe it'll take time for community spirit to take root, but I suspect not;  people who tend to live in gentrified neighborhood tend to be very mobile in general, which may be good in some ways, but not for the purpose of building a community.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:30:27 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:05:42 AM
Here's a list of things that a person can personally do.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/10/9-ways-privileged-gentrification/

Yeah definitely advice for the urban elite.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:32:46 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 06, 2016, 10:21:54 AM
Garbon is right in that gentrified communities tend to be soulless.  I live in one, and it most definitely is. 

New developments are always soulless. It takes time to grow a soul.

Central Texas, with its rapidly expanding populations and new developments, is very soulless. But the soulless developments from the 1970s and 1980s are now positively charming in a surprising way. It will be the same here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 10:33:06 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 06, 2016, 10:14:05 AM
Calling poor run-down neighborhoods "communities" in the context of opposing that to the cruel soullesness of "gentrified" i.e. not run-down neighbourhoods has to be  one of the most condescending/racist stereotypes around. If I were from such "communities" I would be appaled at the arrogance and condescending attitude of any sheltered idiots coming to my area's defense.  I would probably utilise them to avoid having to relocate/lose my juicy free council flat, but I would despise and hate them inside.

It seems to be a term that is most appropriate where poverty is correlated to such things as race - as it tends to be in the US.

The assumption appears to be that the process involves a wholesale movements of population: "gentry" (mostly White) move in, "the poor" (mostly Black and Latino) move out, forced out by higher rents and taxes. The new population comes from all over, hasn't any roots in the community and often doesn't plan necessarily to stay there (presumably they could move to a similar place in another city to chase a superior job opportunity - like moving to London  ;) ) - hence accusations of 'soul-less-ness' and lack of community spirit.

There is less of a sense that the people who live there are simply getting more wealthy and improving the neighborhood they happen to live in.

The "fixes" proposed in Garbon's link above are, one suspects, rather Band-Aid-like - unlikely to change major demographic shifts, one would think. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:33:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?

Chain stores and same-y houses and apartment complexes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:34:30 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 10:33:06 AM
It seems to be a term that is most appropriate where poverty is correlated to such things as race - as it tends to be in the US.

That is the nice thing about being a middle class slob. We have middle class slobs of all races and ethnicities. We all share a common American quality of being obnoxious and overweight.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 06, 2016, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:34:30 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 10:33:06 AM
It seems to be a term that is most appropriate where poverty is correlated to such things as race - as it tends to be in the US.

That is the nice thing about being a middle class slob. We have middle class slobs of all races and ethnicities. We all share a common American quality of being obnoxious and overweight.

The typical American is pretty fit. "Joe Sixpack"? :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:36:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:33:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?

Chain stores and same-y houses and apartment complexes.

Ah.  Our gentrification in OTR is kind of the opposite of that.  Every eating/drinking establishment is small and local, and if anything the "soul" of the original German community that was originally there is being preserved/restored.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:37:02 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:30:27 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:05:42 AM
Here's a list of things that a person can personally do.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/10/9-ways-privileged-gentrification/

Yeah definitely advice for the urban elite.

:huh:

Clearly one has to have some means for items 5 and 6 but I don't think you need to be elite. The rest though...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:41:08 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 10:33:06 AM
The "fixes" proposed in Garbon's link above are, one suspects, rather Band-Aid-like - unlikely to change major demographic shifts, one would think. 

Which would largely be impossible if not for legislation.

Still not hard to see if you support the current local businesses rather than the new ones trying to come in, those businesses will last longer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:41:17 AM
My favorite is #7.  Yeah, to hell with safety.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:43:35 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:37:02 AM
Clearly one has to have some means for items 5 and 6 but I don't think you need to be elite. The rest though...

Besides the demands I not be an asshole the rest assumes I have moved into a gentrified neighborhood and not some new suburb.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:45:31 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 06, 2016, 10:14:05 AM
Calling poor run-down neighborhoods "communities" in the context of opposing that to the cruel soullesness of "gentrified" i.e. not run-down neighbourhoods has to be  one of the most condescending/racist stereotypes around. If I were from such "communities" I would be appaled at the arrogance and condescending attitude of any sheltered idiots coming to my area's defense.  I would probably utilise them to avoid having to relocate/lose my juicy free council flat, but I would despise and hate them inside.

It's just another iteration of the "noble savage" myth that various collectivists have been perpetrating at least since Rousseau.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 10:46:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:33:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?

Chain stores and same-y houses and apartment complexes.

At the upper end, every house and store is filled with character - that just happens to be more or less the same as the "character" demonstrated in similar places located across the continent.  :D

My favorite example of rural gentrification was a restaurant in Oro-Mentone Township. It was called "The Settlers Ghost" and it was located right nest to a big new golf course and skiing area. It served high-end international type food - all proudly "locally sourced" and "organic". The fun part was the menu and decor, which featured a long description of how the restaurant was intended to "honor the settler families whose passing allowed the creation of this fine restaurant, chalet and golf course" (hence "Settlers Ghost"). The décor was all ye olde time-y farm stuff.

Thing is, this is still a partly rural area, lost of farmers (from settler's families) still live there, and farm. They are being pushed out by tourist facilities of course, but they aren't gone yet. However, they would be very unlikely to eat at a restaurant like this - and I wonder what they would make of being "honored" in that manner!  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:46:22 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:11:55 AM
Gentrification rocks.  In the past decade has turned Over-the-Rhine into a fun place full of good restaurants, bars, and four (so far) breweries.  I can take my kids there during the day.  Many, many historic buildings have been saved and it's a place the city can be proud of again.

Sorry, if you like it, it means it must be bad. It's another reason for you to feel bad about yourself as a white middle class heterosexual male. Shame. Shame. Shame.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:46:27 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:45:31 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 06, 2016, 10:14:05 AM
Calling poor run-down neighborhoods "communities" in the context of opposing that to the cruel soullesness of "gentrified" i.e. not run-down neighbourhoods has to be  one of the most condescending/racist stereotypes around. If I were from such "communities" I would be appaled at the arrogance and condescending attitude of any sheltered idiots coming to my area's defense.  I would probably utilise them to avoid having to relocate/lose my juicy free council flat, but I would despise and hate them inside.

It's just another iteration of the "noble savage" myth that various collectivists have been perpetrating at least since Rousseau.

Please don't try to construct meta-narratives. Bit beyond your skill set, I'm afraid. :console:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:47:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?

Fewer shootings and less unsanitary food.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:47:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?

Fewer shootings and less unsanitary food.

How soon till you suggest we put them in camps?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:50:31 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 10:46:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:33:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?

Chain stores and same-y houses and apartment complexes.

At the upper end, every house and store is filled with character - that just happens to be more or less the same as the "character" demonstrated in similar places located across the continent.  :D

My favorite example of rural gentrification was a restaurant in Oro-Mentone Township. It was called "The Settlers Ghost" and it was located right nest to a big new golf course and skiing area. It served high-end international type food - all proudly "locally sourced" and "organic". The fun part was the menu and decor, which featured a long description of how the restaurant was intended to "honor the settler families whose passing allowed the creation of this fine restaurant, chalet and golf course" (hence "Settlers Ghost"). The décor was all ye olde time-y farm stuff.

Thing is, this is still a partly rural area, lost of farmers (from settler's families) still live there, and farm. They are being pushed out by tourist facilities of course, but they aren't gone yet. However, they would be very unlikely to eat at a restaurant like this - and I wonder what they would make of being "honored" in that manner!  :lol:

Well my mother comes from a poor farming community in Oklahoma and they discovered oil and the place is booming and the locals seem to think it is all pretty fantastic. Not sure farmers are the snobs you seem to think they are. They think stuff normal people think is cool is cool as well. When they got their first nice restaurant they were lining up to eat there because something like that had never existed in that community before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:51:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:47:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?

Fewer shootings and less unsanitary food.

How soon till you suggest we put them in camps?

See, this is how SJW operate. If you want to reduce shootings and improve health safety in restaurants you are Hitler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:53:21 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:41:17 AM
My favorite is #7.  Yeah, to hell with safety.

It seems to me that the single overreaching principle of the left these days is to make sure everyone is equally miserable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:54:44 AM
Garbon is an activist? Who knew?

Anyway while moving out to the burbs may seem like hell to people who grew up in a tight knit urban community where everything was within walking distance and everybody knew everybody else it is not really a camp. There is nothing unusual about a little nostalgia for the old times.

What Spike Lee said about social services though is spot on. New York should take a look at that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:58:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:54:44 AM
Garbon is an activist? Who knew?

Yeah, certainly news to me. I think SJW is just a tag that means 'someone Martinus dislikes.'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 06, 2016, 11:01:33 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:51:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 06, 2016, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:47:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?

Fewer shootings and less unsanitary food.

How soon till you suggest we put them in camps?

See, this is how SJW operate. If you want to reduce shootings and improve health safety in restaurants you are Hitler.

And if you want to delouse people. :yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 11:04:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:50:31 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 10:46:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 10:33:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
What do you guys mean by "soulless"?

Chain stores and same-y houses and apartment complexes.

At the upper end, every house and store is filled with character - that just happens to be more or less the same as the "character" demonstrated in similar places located across the continent.  :D

My favorite example of rural gentrification was a restaurant in Oro-Mentone Township. It was called "The Settlers Ghost" and it was located right nest to a big new golf course and skiing area. It served high-end international type food - all proudly "locally sourced" and "organic". The fun part was the menu and decor, which featured a long description of how the restaurant was intended to "honor the settler families whose passing allowed the creation of this fine restaurant, chalet and golf course" (hence "Settlers Ghost"). The décor was all ye olde time-y farm stuff.

Thing is, this is still a partly rural area, lost of farmers (from settler's families) still live there, and farm. They are being pushed out by tourist facilities of course, but they aren't gone yet. However, they would be very unlikely to eat at a restaurant like this - and I wonder what they would make of being "honored" in that manner!  :lol:

Well my mother comes from a poor farming community in Oklahoma and they discovered oil and the place is booming and the locals seem to think it is all pretty fantastic. Not sure farmers are the snobs you seem to think they are. They think stuff normal people think is cool is cool as well. When they got their first nice restaurant they were lining up to eat there because something like that had never existed in that community before.

I don't think they wouldn't eat there because they are snobs. I think they wouldn't eat there because the place is expensive, and most of the surviving farms are clinging on by their fingernails, financially speaking.

In this particular township, there are really two communities: the local farmers, whose economic situation has steadily declined; and cottagers and developers, who are creating all sorts of amenities for people from Toronto and Barrie to enjoy (ski chalets, golf clubs, and now, a new concert park), whose influence is steadily growing. The two don't have much in common.

Obviously, in a sense, this is great news for the locals, who can make big bucks selling their land, much of which used to be nearly worthless. However, obviously, that means moving out of their community, leading to certain tensions.

Edit: an example of a clash between the two: "Save Oro". http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/2016/05/21/save-oro-takes-concerns-to-queens-park
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 11:06:27 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 11:04:47 AM
I don't think they wouldn't eat there because they are snobs. I think they wouldn't eat there because the place is expensive, and most of the surviving farms are clinging on by their fingernails, financially speaking.

In this particular township, there are really two communities: the local farmers, whose economic situation has steadily declined; and cottagers and developers, who are creating all sorts of amenities for people from Toronto and Barrie to enjoy (ski chalets, golf clubs, and now, a new concert park), whose influence is steadily growing. The two don't have much in common.

Obviously, in a sense, this is great news for the locals, who can make big bucks selling their land, much of which used to be nearly worthless. However, obviously, that means moving out of their community, leading to certain tensions.

In an era of high farming prices how have their economic situation declined? I know during the 70s and 80s the farmers had it super rough but these days they do pretty well. It seems to defy all economic logic that their economic lot has declined in the past thirty years. Of course we have our commie subsidization of farms, maybe the Canadians do not have that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 11:11:25 AM
Damned snobby farmers, with those nice shiny tractors they won't let me ride :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 11:06:27 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 11:04:47 AM
I don't think they wouldn't eat there because they are snobs. I think they wouldn't eat there because the place is expensive, and most of the surviving farms are clinging on by their fingernails, financially speaking.

In this particular township, there are really two communities: the local farmers, whose economic situation has steadily declined; and cottagers and developers, who are creating all sorts of amenities for people from Toronto and Barrie to enjoy (ski chalets, golf clubs, and now, a new concert park), whose influence is steadily growing. The two don't have much in common.

Obviously, in a sense, this is great news for the locals, who can make big bucks selling their land, much of which used to be nearly worthless. However, obviously, that means moving out of their community, leading to certain tensions.

In an era of high farming prices how have their economic situation declined? I know during the 70s and 80s the farmers had it super rough but these days they do pretty well. It seems to defy all economic logic that their economic lot has declined in the past thirty years. Of course we have our commie subsidization of farms, maybe the Canadians do not have that.

Small family farms in that part of the world are uneconomic without subsidies, and subsidies have not kept pace with inflation in other areas.

The problem I think is that Oro-Medonte was never particularly good farmland. It made its living by its proximity to major population centers (particularly Toronto). With decrease in shipping costs, that's not as big an advantage as it one was: the whole buy local thing can't turn back comparative advantage wholly.

Combine this with the explosive growth of Toronto (and Barrie turning into a commuter city for Toronto) and subsidized family farms find it hard to compete with developers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 11:20:12 AM
Well if they are small uneconomic farms then...

I don't know if I owned a money losing unprofitable business and somebody offered a stonking amount of money to take it off my hands I probably would be thanking my lucky stars even if it had been in the family for years. Nothing lasts forever right? Why want to be condemned to poverty for the sake of some kind of nostalgic commitment?

It kind of reminds me of the English obsession with the tragedy of land enclosure and coal mine closing. As if being a peasant or a coal miner is some kind of fantastic privilege that is now tragically unavailable to us. But maybe that is my not-having-grown-up-in-a-miserable-dying-industry privilege speaking.

I mean those farmers' ancestors had moved from someplace with bad prospects for the opportunity provided by that land in Canada. Seems downright un-North American to not continue in that tradition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 06, 2016, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Liep on June 06, 2016, 03:18:53 AM
What's the difference?

Colored people is an archaic and discredited term for blacks.  People of color is a recent term that lumps all non-whites together.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 12:50:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 11:20:12 AM
Well if they are small uneconomic farms then...

I don't know if I owned a money losing unprofitable business and somebody offered a stonking amount of money to take it off my hands I probably would be thanking my lucky stars even if it had been in the family for years. Nothing lasts forever right? Why want to be condemned to poverty for the sake of some kind of nostalgic commitment?

It kind of reminds me of the English obsession with the tragedy of land enclosure and coal mine closing. As if being a peasant or a coal miner is some kind of fantastic privilege that is now tragically unavailable to us. But maybe that is my not-having-grown-up-in-a-miserable-dying-industry privilege speaking.

I mean those farmers' ancestors had moved from someplace with bad prospects for the opportunity provided by that land in Canada. Seems downright un-North American to not continue in that tradition.

Hey, I'm not arguing really: I tend to agree that time marches on. I'm just pointing out that "gentrification" isn't confined to inner city settings.

I suppose that in the inner city, most of those forced out won't get a pay-out in the form of higher land prices, because they are more likely to be renters, but otherwise it is roughly comparable: what is lost is a 'traditional community', for whatever that is worth (and not being part of one myself, I can't say as I'd prefer staying in poverty over leaving a traditional community).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 07, 2016, 09:40:59 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13407141_10206437904176898_3636802829050202754_n.jpg?oh=f9a877a96317311c7a135d4512925cd2&oe=580DC764)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 12:50:16 PM
Hey, I'm not arguing really: I tend to agree that time marches on. I'm just pointing out that "gentrification" isn't confined to inner city settings.

It does make one wonder where did all these wealthy people live before "gentrification"? Or are there just far more rich people today than there used to be?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 07, 2016, 09:45:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 12:50:16 PM
Hey, I'm not arguing really: I tend to agree that time marches on. I'm just pointing out that "gentrification" isn't confined to inner city settings.

It does make one wonder where did all these wealthy people live before "gentrification"? Or are there just far more rich people today than there used to be?

Well isn't it just people returning to the cities? Presumably when NYC was a failed city, the gentrifiers were still just chilling in the suburbs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 07, 2016, 09:45:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 12:50:16 PM
Hey, I'm not arguing really: I tend to agree that time marches on. I'm just pointing out that "gentrification" isn't confined to inner city settings.

It does make one wonder where did all these wealthy people live before "gentrification"? Or are there just far more rich people today than there used to be?

For the highest value real estate (such as flats in NY or London proper) I understand the fact that the rich own multiple flats they don't use is a contributing factor.

Also, I don't think it is out of whack to think there are more rich people today than there used to be in absolute numbers (if not in terms of percentage). And the amount of space one can live in is obviously finite.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 10:11:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 07, 2016, 09:45:28 AM
Well isn't it just people returning to the cities? Presumably when NYC was a failed city, the gentrifiers were still just chilling in the suburbs.

Maybe. Are there loads of ritzy suburban and country estates laying empty now?

QuoteAlso, I don't think it is out of whack to think there are more rich people today than there used to be in absolute numbers (if not in terms of percentage). And the amount of space one can live in is obviously finite.

Yeah it gives realestate its bizarre and quirky character as a product. Few other things are as zero-sum game as it is. A rich person owning a fancy cell phone doesn't drive up the price or make it more difficult for me to own a cell phone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 07, 2016, 10:14:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 10:11:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 07, 2016, 09:45:28 AM
Well isn't it just people returning to the cities? Presumably when NYC was a failed city, the gentrifiers were still just chilling in the suburbs.

Maybe. Are there loads of ritzy suburban and country estates laying empty now?

Well I think gentrification can be caused by the non-wealthy. So for instance myself and my siblings (when we all lived in NYC). Well really my sisters as they chose the neighborhoods that were getting gentrified, while I chose the already full gentrified. :D None of us come from/abandoned ritzy suburban estates but it is likely had we grown up when NYC was a hellhole, we would have stayed living in the suburbs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 07, 2016, 10:55:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 11:20:12 AM
Well if they are small uneconomic farms then...

I don't know if I owned a money losing unprofitable business and somebody offered a stonking amount of money to take it off my hands I probably would be thanking my lucky stars even if it had been in the family for years. Nothing lasts forever right? Why want to be condemned to poverty for the sake of some kind of nostalgic commitment?

It kind of reminds me of the English obsession with the tragedy of land enclosure and coal mine closing. As if being a peasant or a coal miner is some kind of fantastic privilege that is now tragically unavailable to us. But maybe that is my not-having-grown-up-in-a-miserable-dying-industry privilege speaking.

I mean those farmers' ancestors had moved from someplace with bad prospects for the opportunity provided by that land in Canada. Seems downright un-North American to not continue in that tradition.
It's a little more complicated than that.
First off, big farms do rely on subsidies or market protection as well as the small ones.

And then, there is the fact that you grew up on the lands of your father who grew up on the lands of his father...  It's a pretty powerful feeling.  You are home.  You are independant and self sufficient: you can grow and raise a part of your food, you are not affected by what the grocery charges you.  My best friends barely buys meat from the grocery store and he can grow a lot of veggies in his garden.

If he were to sell his farm, his lands, his house, he would need to move to the city, buy a house that is worth more than he got for his own house, take a part of the capital he gained, than find a regular job at a decent pay - in his case, not so hard because he is well educated and highly intelligent, so he could retrain, but for most of these people, outside of farm work, they don't know much.  And then, he needs to buy all the meat at the grocery store, subject to the inflation that affects most people, while working at 12-15$/hour.

So basically, he would not be better off than he is right now, probably even worst.

The other alternative offered is to sell the farm to an aggregator and work for him as an employee of a faceless big corporation.  And then one day, they decide the price of the milk/pigs/cattle is too low and they shut down operations on this site and multiple others.

Small farms aren't viable, but larger farms aren't either.  The Americans and the Europeans will subsidize their big farms, as well as New Zealand and Australia. The Chinese will manipulate the market and buy farms below their real values once they are near bankruptcy.  It's harder to export dairy products and fresh meat than cars or coal or oil.

Of course there are multiple problems with the system we use in Canada.  It does not promote growth and technological advancement, and farmers are still subject to adverse market variations and unable to compensate by producting more.

However, so long as other countries subsidize their farms, there ain't much choice as doing the same, just like we do for big corporations.
I had hoped the new trans-pacific accord would change that, but it looks unlikely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 11:02:24 AM
Well yeah but all that has been true for 50 years. But things are much better now than they were 30 years ago which was why I was curious why their situation is deteriorating. That makes me think that Canada has no subsidies for their farms, these farmers are just really bad at farming, or there are some kind of specific circumstances making these particular farms specifically unsuccessful. Maybe all three. But there is no reason they cannot sell these farms, get a huge profit, and then buy a cheap farm way out in the country away from the big cities where this is unlikely to repeat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 11:05:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 09:16:51 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 06, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
As white people? Stop leaving you current neighborhood when black people start showing up & living in the neighborhood.

What does that have to do with gentrification? I thought that was white people moving into black neighborhoods and driving up the price. Everybody leaving a neighborhood would seem to drive down prices.

Also I cannot stop doing that since I have never done it.

I don't think gentrification has to have a racial component - except maybe in the US where apparently everything has to be about race. As long as you have longstanding communities of poor or socially vulnerable people getting displaced on a large scale, it's gentrification. At least that's how I understand it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 11:09:29 AM
Quote from: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 11:05:54 AM
I don't think gentrification has to have a racial component - except maybe in the US where apparently everything has to be about race. As long as you have longstanding communities of poor or socially vulnerable people getting displaced on a large scale, it's gentrification. At least that's how I understand it.

Sure. I was just curious how the recommended ways we combat this are going to impact it in anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 11:18:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 06, 2016, 10:36:03 AM
Ah.  Our gentrification in OTR is kind of the opposite of that.  Every eating/drinking establishment is small and local, and if anything the "soul" of the original German community that was originally there is being preserved/restored.

Yeah, in that case - when strongly influenced by maker culture and individual expression - it's hard to take the "soulless" charge seriously. IMO, lack of soul basically means lacking any local distinctions - the neighbourhood could be anywhere, with the same chain stores, the same architecture, the same brands, the same very meagre (if any) available cultural activities, and a lack of any kind of local community character in the populace. So I reckon what you describe is not soulless in the sense it's usually meant.

Of course, there's a tendency of some people to call any and all examples of people better off than them "soulless" - and sometimes that gets applied to the kind of gentrification you're describing. It's "soulless" by definition (for the speaker) because it's gentrification, full stop. That seems kind of wrong to me though.

IMO, of course.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 11:21:15 AM
I will say that I do like how most of our gentrification is taking place using the locally quarried limestone. It gives it certain 'this gentrification was done in Austin, Texas' look :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 11:29:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 11:20:12 AM
It kind of reminds me of the English obsession with the tragedy of land enclosure and coal mine closing. As if being a peasant or a coal miner is some kind of fantastic privilege that is now tragically unavailable to us. But maybe that is my not-having-grown-up-in-a-miserable-dying-industry privilege speaking.

I think so, yeah.

The land enclosures saw large scale brutal evictions where people's houses and personal possessions were burned. There were a significant number of deaths from from starvation and freezing. Where people weren't initially moved off from the land, they were often kept around in even poorer conditions than previously as cheap labour.

A first-hand account of the clearing of Sutherland:

The consternation and confusion were extreme. Little or no time was given for the removal of persons or property; the people striving to remove the sick and the helpless before the fire should reach them; next, struggling to save the most valuable of their effects. The cries of the women and children, the roaring of the affrighted cattle, hunted at the same time by the yelling dogs of the shepherds amid the smoke and fire, altogether presented a scene that completely baffles description — it required to be seen to be believed.

A dense cloud of smoke enveloped the whole country by day, and even extended far out to sea. At night an awfully grand but terrific scene presented itself — all the houses in an extensive district in flames at once. I myself ascended a height about eleven o'clock in the evening, and counted two hundred and fifty blazing houses, many of the owners of which I personally knew, but whose present condition — whether in or out of the flames — I could not tell. The conflagration lasted six days, till the whole of the dwellings were reduced to ashes or smoking ruins. During one of these days a boat actually lost her way in the dense smoke as she approached the shore, but at night was enabled to reach a landing-place by the lurid light of the flames.

It also saw the near extinction of Gaelic as a living language in Scotland.

I don't know if any fantastic "privileges" were lost, but it certainly was an act (or series of acts) of large scale brutality.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 11:35:40 AM
Quote from: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 11:29:08 AM
I don't know if any fantastic "privileges" were lost, but it certainly was an act (or series of acts) of large scale brutality.

Needless to say this is one of only many ways enclosure happened and it was a steady process over 500 years. Enclosure started before the Tudors came to power and reached its conclusions in the 19th century. I have heard all these very selectively chosen examples over the years but to claim it was some kind of horrific sudden event is very misleading. Often it was the peasants themselves that led the charge.

QuoteI don't know if any fantastic "privileges" were lost, but it certainly was an act (or series of acts) of large scale brutality.

Well the alternative model was granting the peasants tenure over the land, like was done in France. And the result seems to have been just as traumatic with backwards farming techniques resulting in high food prices, economic stagnation, and starvation. Transitioning from a peasant economy was always going to be traumatic and peasant languages, like Gaelic, had a hard time of it everywhere.

Likewise huge subsidies to keep coal mines open might have kept those communities together for a bit longer but the end consequences would not have been pretty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 11:51:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 11:35:40 AM
Needless to say this is one of only many ways enclosure happened and it was a steady process over 500 years. Enclosure started before the Tudors came to power and reached its conclusions in the 19th century. I have heard all these very selectively chosen examples over the years but to claim it was some kind of horrific sudden event is very misleading. Often it was the peasants themselves that led the charge.

This is not an argument I'm familiar with, and I'm not sure what you're driving at with those. Sure there were economic changes that happened in ways that were less traumatic and outright murderous for the affected populations; that's great. Is the argument that since it happened in a non-brutal way in some cases, the brutal acts of clearances should be ignored?

Or is it just that some eggs where broken in the making of the omelette and since that happened a long time ago and far away, we can be pretty philosophical about the suffering?

QuoteI don't know if any fantastic "privileges" were lost, but it certainly was an act (or series of acts) of large scale brutality.

QuoteWell the alternative model was granting the peasants tenure over the land, like was done in France. And the result seems to have been just as traumatic with backwards farming techniques resulting in high food prices, economic stagnation, and starvation. Transitioning from a peasant economy was always going to be traumatic and peasant languages, like Gaelic, had a hard time of it everywhere.

Likewise huge subsidies to keep coal mines open might have kept those communities together for a bit longer but the end consequences would not have been pretty.

It sounds to me like you're saying that since it happened, it was unavoidable; and since it was unavoidable, we can dismiss the suffering of those affected as a trivial detail? Or are you driving at something else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 11:56:22 AM
Quotehis is not an argument I'm familiar with, and I'm not sure what you're driving at with those. Sure there were economic changes that happened in ways that were less traumatic and outright murderous for the affected populations; that's great. Is the argument that since it happened in a non-brutal way in some cases, the brutal acts of clearances should be ignored?

No I am saying the brutality is always characterized as typical of enclosure. It was the exception and not the rule. Putting it in its context and being balanced instead of demonizing a process that actually benefited most people would be refreshing in how this story is normally told. I am actually arguing the fact that in the majority of cases it was not done in a brutal way should not be ignored. 

Quote from: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 11:51:40 AM
It sounds to me like you're saying that since it happened, it was unavoidable; and since it was unavoidable, we can dismiss the suffering of those affected as a trivial detail? Or are you driving at something else?

I am simply saying the entire story should be told and it should be told in its proper context instead of characterizing it as some sort of horrible crime perpetrated by evil forces, I suspect the situation with gentrification is rather similar. I mean are there egregious cases? Sure. But that is not the entire story, it is just part of the story.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 12:28:26 PM
An interesting perspective, and not one I've encountered before. Is this a Valmy original approach, or one based on other scholarship?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 12:28:26 PM
An interesting perspective, and not one I've encountered before. Is this a Valmy original approach, or one based on other scholarship?

Well I never was very happy with the way this story was presented to me in College, it seemed a bit too mustache twirly for something happening all over the country. Still there was slavery so certainly people can just be that shitty :P

But it is based on recent scholarship. But damned if I can find my sources I am always terrible at that. I read something or hear something and remember the information but not where I heard it from. I am a junkie for anything English history these days for some reason. Books about sheep herding are endlessly fascinating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 07, 2016, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 12:50:16 PM
Hey, I'm not arguing really: I tend to agree that time marches on. I'm just pointing out that "gentrification" isn't confined to inner city settings.

It does make one wonder where did all these wealthy people live before "gentrification"? Or are there just far more rich people today than there used to be?

Well, in this particular case it is easy: the "gentry" come from the big, bad city (specifically, Toronto). There are indeed lots more of them than there used to be, as Toronto has grown enormously. They are streaming into the countryside looking for cottages and other recreational facilities.

Naturally, lots of locals are all in favor of this, as it pumps cash into the economy. However, the downside is that it tends to break up the communities that have existed there for some time. These create the dilemmas typical of "gentrification" - obviously it ain't all bad, but it does tend to displace people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 07, 2016, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 11:02:24 AM
But things are much better now than they were 30 years ago which was why I was curious why their situation is deteriorating.
One thing is this new milk protein imported from the US, that does not count toward milk imports, so it drives the price of the milk down (it went down 15% last year, climbed back by 5%, it's still a tad under 10% lower than 2-3 years ago).
Add to that the inhability of most farmers to quickly react to such a "sudden" change in price structure and you get a crisis.

Quote
That makes me think that Canada has no subsidies for their farms, these farmers are just really bad at farming, or there are some kind of specific circumstances making these particular farms specifically unsuccessful. Maybe all three.
Some are pretty bad, yeah.  As strange as it sounds for people like us, you do have a significant proportion (far from a majority, but still) of farmers with barely and education.   One guy I know was basically forced to quit high school in 8th grade.  He was nearing his 20s.  He got enrolled into some specific agricultor training program for those with lots of difficulties.  They just focus on basic manual task and forget about usual professional high school requirements like very basic English, French and math.  Then they give them a diploma.   I know 2 guys exactly in this situation in the area.  Functional analphabet is even a stretch to describe them.  And then they get girlfriends even worst than them.  duh.
Sorry for the rant.

Also, there are no direct subsidies for farming.  For mik, eggs and poultry, there is a system of quotas and a minimum price for milk in grocery stores.  A dairy farmer is forced to buy a quota, in liters of milk, for what he wants to sell during a given year.  There are no more penalties for over producing, but you don't get paid.  In the past, you would often see farmers throwing their surplus production away (they opened the boil tank valve and let it flow to the nearest trenches).  The quotas garantees a certain stability for the milk (and other products) as prices are pre-determined for a longer time frame rather than fluctuating every week.

They receive subsidies for cereal production, in the form of an insurance for which they pay 25% of the cost.  It's called stabilization insurance.  If the crops are very bad in an area to due horrid weather or if the prices were to get too low, they'd get compensation.

They also have access to financing at premium rates, below usual market costs for such projects since the government will guarantee their loans to the banks.  They also receive subsidies that cover a part of the municipal taxes since they don't receive these services for their lands (police, fire, garbage, sewer, etc).  But to get all that, you need to be part of the biggest farmer's union in Quebec (the others don't count), and to do that you need to achieve a certain level of production.

There are problems with this system of course, lots of problems for everyone and I'm not sure I should go more in details in this thread...

Quote
But there is no reason they cannot sell these farms, get a huge profit, and then buy a cheap farm way out in the country away from the big cities where this is unlikely to repeat.
The problem arise when the city develops around them.  See, one farm I know of, a former client.  They are (were) located in Beauport (Quebec city).  Right in front of the psychiatric hospital Robert Giffard.
It was among the oldest farmland in Quebec, probably the oldest one.  When it was built, it was away from Quebec city.  When we went to work there, it was surrounded by restaurants and other commerce.  Ok, 400 years had passed, but you see the same happening faster&faster everywhere.

Eventually, the tax bill rose to incredible level, and after spending a lot of money to conform themselves to environmental laws since they are now near a residential area.  And then, they are forced to once conclusion: they cannot afford to pay 100k$ in municipal taxes every year and expect to survive.  So they close it down.  They sell the land to promoters that will build condo.  And they pay their debts.  And they have just enough to buy another house and another farm.  At 59 years old.  If they want to keep doing what they do, they need to buy the farm plus a new quota.  That means moving away from everything and everyone you know, starting anew and going into debt for a diminishing income. 

At this point, most will opt out of the business alltogether and try to live off their economies for the time remaining.  Especially if the physical shape is not what it's used to be.  Lots of farmers have joint&muscle problems later in their life from doing such a hard work.

If they're younger... Well, then the problem is finding another farm in another part of the province that has just the right conditions: sufficiently away from the city for at least 2-3 generations and an older owner ready to sell at a right price.  Because these farms are prime targets for financial funds, some Quebec based, some foreign, some from Banks with unclear intentions.  It's a sellers market, really.  But their biggest asset is the quota, which means you freeze your own financial assets for something unproductive when you want to buy another farm.

And of course, you have to find the farm.  As I said earlier, the quota system led to a gap in the use of technology, not just for the farm itself, but the entire industry, and that is compounded by Quebec's general hostility toward new technologies (and the language barrier does not help at all).  A prospective buyer from Quebec city may not be aware of a farm selling north of Saguenay.  Or he may have no interest in unproductive lands as the best ones become residential areas.

So, lots of problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 07, 2016, 01:39:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 12:36:23 PM
Well I never was very happy with the way this story was presented to me in College, it seemed a bit too mustache twirly for something happening all over the country. Still there was slavery so certainly people can just be that shitty :P

But it is based on recent scholarship. But damned if I can find my sources I am always terrible at that. I read something or hear something and remember the information but not where I heard it from. I am a junkie for anything English history these days for some reason. Books about sheep herding are endlessly fascinating.

Fair enough. I'll keep an eye out for anything on the subject :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 07, 2016, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2016, 10:45:31 AM

It's just another iteration of the "noble savage" myth that various collectivists have been perpetrating at least since Rousseau.

While you are certainly a backward, potato-worshiping savage, there is nothing noble about you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 07, 2016, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 11:02:24 AM
Well yeah but all that has been true for 50 years. But things are much better now than they were 30 years ago which was why I was curious why their situation is deteriorating. That makes me think that Canada has no subsidies for their farms, these farmers are just really bad at farming, or there are some kind of specific circumstances making these particular farms specifically unsuccessful. Maybe all three.

In the case of Oro-Medonte, the farms were never the most productive, because the farmland there tends to be marginal. Basically, it is too sandy. The property my father bought used to be farmland, but it was ruined during the depression, and it is easy to see why it reverted to forest - it's very sandy.

What made the farms viable was the fact they were close to a major market. With new technology for transportation, that ceased to be as big an advantage as formerly.

QuoteBut there is no reason they cannot sell these farms, get a huge profit, and then buy a cheap farm way out in the country away from the big cities where this is unlikely to repeat.

I suppose they can do that. But then, they'd be moving into a different community. It may (or may not) be just as good as the community they had left, but it will not have the same associations of tradition, friendships and inter-marriage as the one they left. They would now be comparative strangers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 07, 2016, 03:26:57 PM
 :lol: Oh, shit

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13342927_1001789816541932_6894460987668099568_n.jpg?oh=2f1e71be3121a8099b23662ff6f97429&oe=580E4242)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2016, 03:29:51 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on June 08, 2016, 03:49:14 AM
Are you seriously still on about that gorilla over there?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 08, 2016, 04:05:43 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 07, 2016, 03:26:57 PM
:lol: Oh, shit

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13342927_1001789816541932_6894460987668099568_n.jpg?oh=2f1e71be3121a8099b23662ff6f97429&oe=580E4242)

:XD:

Ok, this is offensive/racist and funny at the same time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 08, 2016, 04:07:33 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 08, 2016, 03:49:14 AM
Are you seriously still on about that gorilla over there?  :hmm:

In case you did not get the joke, the man pictured is George (?) Zimmerman, who shot Trevon Martin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on June 08, 2016, 04:14:02 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 08, 2016, 04:07:33 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 08, 2016, 03:49:14 AM
Are you seriously still on about that gorilla over there?  :hmm:

In case you did not get the joke, the man pictured is George (?) Zimmerman, who shot Trevon Martin.

Oh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 09, 2016, 07:08:07 AM
Logo of a Polish pharmacy for families :D

(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13413057_1083680295035509_4523996099194894489_n.jpg?oh=6299ab709e72f7363614906c204592f1&oe=57D4FEE9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 09, 2016, 07:56:16 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12592228_1053189201414230_6129149160985396557_n.jpg?oh=f0e57d3dc47885809099390f5adbf8bb&oe=58062E2F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:02:51 AM
They should have just said 'a myth' and then stopped there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 09, 2016, 08:05:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:02:51 AM
They should have just said 'a myth' and then stopped there.

Are you saying that there are no proper rules of English grammar, syntax etc.?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 08:06:39 AM
Me no think so Marty. Thats unpossible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:14:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 09, 2016, 08:05:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:02:51 AM
They should have just said 'a myth' and then stopped there.

Are you saying that there are no proper rules of English grammar, syntax etc.?  :huh:

Oh there are some core elements sure; all languages have them. However, languages actually change overtime and what is appropriate or 'proper' varies by setting/context.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 08:19:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:14:21 AM
Oh there are some core elements sure; all languages have them. However, languages actually change overtime and what is appropriate or 'proper' varies by setting/context.

Ok. Explain how something changes according to setting and context means it is mythological? I mean every element of human culture has that quality. Seems like a rather mundane point.

To me this is another claim that any social expectations or standards at all are a horrible oppressive burden on everybody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Brazen on June 09, 2016, 08:23:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:14:21 AM
Oh there are some core elements sure; all languages have them. However, languages actually change overtime and what is appropriate or 'proper' varies by setting/context.
Outside normal working hours, you mean? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:26:25 AM
Quote from: Brazen on June 09, 2016, 08:23:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:14:21 AM
Oh there are some core elements sure; all languages have them. However, languages actually change overtime and what is appropriate or 'proper' varies by setting/context.
Outside normal working hours, you mean? :P

Oops. Haha
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:27:22 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 08:19:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:14:21 AM
Oh there are some core elements sure; all languages have them. However, languages actually change overtime and what is appropriate or 'proper' varies by setting/context.

Ok. Explain how something changes according to setting and context means it is mythological? I mean every element of human culture has that quality. Seems like a rather mundane point.

To me this is another claim that any social expectations or standards at all are a horrible oppressive burden on everybody.

Well, let's look at Canadian English, British English and American English. Across the 3 you have a mix of spellings and grammar rules. Which one is 'proper'?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 09, 2016, 08:27:31 AM
Quote from: Brazen on June 09, 2016, 08:23:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:14:21 AM
Oh there are some core elements sure; all languages have them. However, languages actually change overtime and what is appropriate or 'proper' varies by setting/context.
Outside normal working hours, you mean? :P

Perfect illustration of the point that languages actually do have rules.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:30:41 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 09, 2016, 08:27:31 AM
Quote from: Brazen on June 09, 2016, 08:23:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:14:21 AM
Oh there are some core elements sure; all languages have them. However, languages actually change overtime and what is appropriate or 'proper' varies by setting/context.
Outside normal working hours, you mean? :P

Perfect illustration of the point that languages actually do have rules.  :lol:

But then no one was advancing that languages have no rules, no? ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:41:16 AM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/there-is-no-proper-english-1426258286

QuoteThere Is No 'Proper English'

It's a perpetual lament: The purity of the English language is under assault. These days we are told that our ever-texting teenagers can't express themselves in grammatical sentences. The media delight in publicizing ostensibly incorrect usage. A few weeks ago, pundits and columnists lauded a Wikipedia editor in San Jose, Calif., who had rooted out and changed no fewer than 47,000 instances where contributors to the online encyclopedia had written "comprised of" rather than "composed of." Does anyone doubt that our mother tongue is in deep decline?

Well, for one, I do. It is well past time to consign grammar pedantry to the history books.

As children, we all have the instinct to acquire a set of rules and to apply them. Any toddler is already a grammatical genius. Without conscious effort, we combine words into sentences according to a particular structure, with subjects, objects, verbs, adjectives and so on. We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it's how we see and hear people use the language.

That's how scholarly linguists work. Instead of having some rule book of what is "correct" usage, they examine the evidence of how native and fluent nonnative speakers do in fact use the language. Whatever is in general use in a language (not any use, but general use) is for that reason grammatically correct.

The grammatical rules invoked by pedants aren't real rules of grammar at all. They are, at best, just stylistic conventions: An example would be the use of a double negative (I can't get no satisfaction). It makes complete grammatical sense, as an intensifier. It's just a convention that we don't use double negatives of that form in Standard English.

Some other pedantic stipulations are destructive pieces of folklore, like the belief that it is wrong to split an infinitive or to end a sentence with a preposition. We should be entirely relaxed about that sort of choice. Why worry, as some pedants do, about whether to write "firstly" or "first" when you begin a list of points? Either is correct.

The range of legitimate variation is wider than you would imagine. Yes, you may use "hopefully" as an adverb modifying an entire sentence; and you may use "they" as a singular generic pronoun; and you may say "between you and I." The pedants' prohibitions on constructions like these are not supported by the evidence of general usage.

Pedantry is poor manners, certainly, but also poor scholarship. If someone tells you that you "can't" write something, ask them why not. Rarely will they have an answer that makes grammatical sense; it is probably just a superstition that they have carried around with them for years.

It is possible, of course, for us to make errors of grammar, spelling or punctuation. But it is not possible for everyone, or the majority of educated users of the language, to be wrong on the same point at the same time. If it is in general use, then that is what the language is.

Language sticklers typically depict themselves as defenders of tradition against the insidious forces of cultural relativism. This is nonsense. In fact, the pedantic urge is a modern invention of rather dubious lineage. Prescriptive style guides like Strunk & White's "Elements of Style" are the direct descendants of 18th-century grammarians who first defined what it was to speak "proper English." In fact, these grammarians really just meant the dialect that grew up in and around London; their manuals were intended to teach propriety to an emerging merchant class.

Such self-help books were phenomenally popular in the 18th and 19th centuries, and instruction in correct speaking was a subset of these. Hence, for example, as a boy George Washington was required by his tutor to copy out "110 Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior in Company and Conversation." These largely concerned deference to his social superiors. That is how the prescriptive urge in language started too. Robert Baker, one of the original 18th-century usage gurus, criticized "low people," especially servants and actors, for their standards of English.

The whole debate about English usage has been bedeviled ever since by this snobbery, whereas the real task of language instruction (for adults as for children) should be to help people learn how to address different types of audience at different sorts of occasions. A speech delivered at a public event marking a great tragedy, for instance, demands a highly formal register; commentary on the Super Bowl needs a conversational tone. If you mix them up, you have failed not just in standards of language but in proper behavior as well.

Though the U.S. has long been regarded as a more mobile and less class-stratified society than the U.K., the same linguistic controversies rage in both countries. The founding father of a distinctive American dialect was Noah Webster, whose American Dictionary of the English Language was published in 1828. He was notably more enlightened in his views than his counterparts in England, Robert Lowth and Lindley Murray; Webster focused on how Americans used the language rather than on the superstition that English must follow the syntax of Latin.

But the urge to scold rather than to listen has run through American discussions of usage ever since. There was huge controversy when the third edition of Webster's dictionary was published in 1961 and announced that it was less interested in "correctness" than in how actual Americans spoke and wrote. It caused outrage. The literary critic Dwight Macdonald complained that the lexicographers had "untuned the string, made a sop of the solid structure of English."

The critics had misjudged what a dictionary is for. Lexicographers don't have the option of recording only the usages they approve of. They have to describe the language as it is, knowing that there is no one in charge of it. Indeed, there is no single body of definitions that can be identified definitively as English. There are different dialects of English, all of which conform to grammatical structures. Usage is not just usage: It is what the language is.

Once we dispense with the idea that Standard English is "correct," there are social and linguistic gains. Teaching the conventions of the language is vital but has long been bound up with two deeply mistaken beliefs: first that non-Standard dialects are "improper" English; and second, that literacy depends on bogus rules like the supposed ban on split infinitives ("to boldly go").

People should not be stigmatized for the way they speak, and they certainly should not have stupid, made-up linguistic superstitions drilled into their heads.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 09, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
To passively describe how language is used and only passively describe how language is used without making any judgments is just as foolish as to be overly pedantic about applying "proper" rules that have become outdated by use.

For some reason, people like the author of the above article insist on all-or-nothing absolutes: that you have to be either a backward looking pedant or accept that there is absolutely no such thing as teaching proper English. There is an expression for this: "to throw the baby out with the bathwater". 

The notion that we should just allow kids to speak any way they like without making any effort to teach them, because they are "natural linguists", is strongly implied in that article:

QuoteAs children, we all have the instinct to acquire a set of rules and to apply them. Any toddler is already a grammatical genius. Without conscious effort, we combine words into sentences according to a particular structure, with subjects, objects, verbs, adjectives and so on. We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it's how we see and hear people use the language.

That's how scholarly linguists work. Instead of having some rule book of what is "correct" usage, they examine the evidence of how native and fluent nonnative speakers do in fact use the language. Whatever is in general use in a language (not any use, but general use) is for that reason grammatically correct.

Good luck with that.

Clear communication is a skill like any other: it is acquired, can be taught, and is better with practice and criticism. The notion that every human is simply a natural "grammatical genius" and so does not require any instruction because "Without conscious effort, we combine words into sentences according to a particular structure, with subjects, objects, verbs, adjectives and so on. We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it's how we see and hear people use the language" is, quite simply, absurd.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Seems like someone is forgetting that the point of communication is to communicate.  And that is facilitated by everyone following the same rules.  There are obviously hundreds of ways people can communicate, we call these ways languages, but it is always preferable for two people attempting to exchange ideas and understanding to communicate by same means.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 09:49:30 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:27:22 AM
Well, let's look at Canadian English, British English and American English. Across the 3 you have a mix of spellings and grammar rules. Which one is 'proper'?

Depends on the setting/context doesn't it? But surely within each setting/context there is something appropriate and proper.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 09, 2016, 10:26:22 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Seems like someone is forgetting that the point of communication is to communicate.  And that is facilitated by everyone following the same rules.  There are obviously hundreds of ways people can communicate, we call these ways languages, but it is always preferable for two people attempting to exchange ideas and understanding to communicate by same means.

That sounds kind of racist. I think.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:54:55 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 09, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
To passively describe how language is used and only passively describe how language is used without making any judgments is just as foolish as to be overly pedantic about applying "proper" rules that have become outdated by use.

For some reason, people like the author of the above article insist on all-or-nothing absolutes: that you have to be either a backward looking pedant or accept that there is absolutely no such thing as teaching proper English. There is an expression for this: "to throw the baby out with the bathwater". 

The notion that we should just allow kids to speak any way they like without making any effort to teach them, because they are "natural linguists", is strongly implied in that article:

QuoteAs children, we all have the instinct to acquire a set of rules and to apply them. Any toddler is already a grammatical genius. Without conscious effort, we combine words into sentences according to a particular structure, with subjects, objects, verbs, adjectives and so on. We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it's how we see and hear people use the language.

That's how scholarly linguists work. Instead of having some rule book of what is "correct" usage, they examine the evidence of how native and fluent nonnative speakers do in fact use the language. Whatever is in general use in a language (not any use, but general use) is for that reason grammatically correct.

Good luck with that.

Clear communication is a skill like any other: it is acquired, can be taught, and is better with practice and criticism. The notion that every human is simply a natural "grammatical genius" and so does not require any instruction because "Without conscious effort, we combine words into sentences according to a particular structure, with subjects, objects, verbs, adjectives and so on. We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it's how we see and hear people use the language" is, quite simply, absurd.


Yes because the author didn't note that it is possible to make mistakes nor did he note that learning the conventions of one's language is vital.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:56:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 09:49:30 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 08:27:22 AM
Well, let's look at Canadian English, British English and American English. Across the 3 you have a mix of spellings and grammar rules. Which one is 'proper'?

Depends on the setting/context doesn't it? But surely within each setting/context there is something appropriate and proper.

I don't know. Is my language suddenly improper because I'm an American and generally stick to American grammar unless facing down potentially embarrassing things like pants vs. trousers?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Seems like someone is forgetting that the point of communication is to communicate.  And that is facilitated by everyone following the same rules.  There are obviously hundreds of ways people can communicate, we call these ways languages, but it is always preferable for two people attempting to exchange ideas and understanding to communicate by same means.

Is it though? Does not ending a sentence on 'of' or using the word 'ain't' suddenly make it hard 'to exchange ideas and understanding'?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:00:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:56:05 AM
I don't know. Is my language suddenly improper because I'm an American and generally stick to American grammar unless facing down potentially embarrassing things like pants vs. trousers?

Depends on the extent it makes communication difficult. I am sure British people have to tone it down a bit when they come over here as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:03:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Seems like someone is forgetting that the point of communication is to communicate.  And that is facilitated by everyone following the same rules.  There are obviously hundreds of ways people can communicate, we call these ways languages, but it is always preferable for two people attempting to exchange ideas and understanding to communicate by same means.

Is it though? Does not ending a sentence on 'of' or using the word 'ain't' suddenly make it hard 'to exchange ideas and understanding'?

It is a kind of communication though. I don't think having formal  vs. informal language forms is some kind of atrocity. You are communicating something when you use either. If you use only very formal words and grammar structures you are communicating a certain formality and gravitas and so forth rather than the more intimate and familiar informal forms. There are times when it is proper and appropriate to use one of the other, just like you said :P

But this extends to all kinds of things, like how you dress. Wearing one of those Tuxedo T-Shirts to a formal occasion is communicating something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:04:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:00:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:56:05 AM
I don't know. Is my language suddenly improper because I'm an American and generally stick to American grammar unless facing down potentially embarrassing things like pants vs. trousers?

Depends on the extent it makes communication difficult. I am sure British people have to tone it down a bit when they come over here as well.

Well I very much doubt that if a monolithic 'proper' English were to be found (I guess the standard version of each of those countries' English could be considered a monolithic block for each) that they point of said English would be to ease communication through standardization. If that were the case, you probably wouldn't want to have as many 'big words' as that's a hindrance to communication among the general populace. Certainly much more so than taking issues with someone saying 'can't' vs. 'cannot'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:06:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:03:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Seems like someone is forgetting that the point of communication is to communicate.  And that is facilitated by everyone following the same rules.  There are obviously hundreds of ways people can communicate, we call these ways languages, but it is always preferable for two people attempting to exchange ideas and understanding to communicate by same means.

Is it though? Does not ending a sentence on 'of' or using the word 'ain't' suddenly make it hard 'to exchange ideas and understanding'?

It is a kind of communication though. I don't think having formal  vs. informal language forms is some kind of atrocity. You are communicating something when you use either. If you use only very formal words and grammar structures you are communicating a certain formality and gravitas and so forth rather than the more intimate and familiar informal forms. There are times when it is proper and appropriate to use one of the other, just like you said :P

But this extends to all kinds of things, like how you dress. Wearing one of those Tuxedo T-Shirts to a formal occasion is communicating something.

Yes, I've said from the start that there are certain settings where a sort tone/type of speech is preferred and deemed more appropriate. That doesn't mean that I'm agreeing with the notion of 'Proper English' as what's deemed proper is determined by setting/context/culture.  Of course, that's all the sort of thing that can be seen as oppressive vis-a-vis speaking white and speaking black.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:18:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:06:48 AM
Yes, I've said from the start that there are certain settings where a sort tone/type of speech is preferred and deemed more appropriate. That doesn't mean that I'm agreeing with the notion of 'Proper English' as what's deemed proper is determined by setting/context/culture.  Of course, that's all the sort of thing that can be seen as oppressive vis-a-vis speaking white and speaking black.

Well of course any social expectation can be seen as oppressive or even racist depending on the cultural context. I mean you are expected to conform to something you might not like. But I don't see how society works without them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:24:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:18:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:06:48 AM
Yes, I've said from the start that there are certain settings where a sort tone/type of speech is preferred and deemed more appropriate. That doesn't mean that I'm agreeing with the notion of 'Proper English' as what's deemed proper is determined by setting/context/culture.  Of course, that's all the sort of thing that can be seen as oppressive vis-a-vis speaking white and speaking black.

Well of course any social expectation can be seen as oppressive or even racist depending on the cultural context. I mean you are expected to conform to something you might not like. But I don't see how society works without them.

That's nice. I'm glad actual discrimination can be hand waved away with 'anything really can be'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 11:25:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Seems like someone is forgetting that the point of communication is to communicate.  And that is facilitated by everyone following the same rules.  There are obviously hundreds of ways people can communicate, we call these ways languages, but it is always preferable for two people attempting to exchange ideas and understanding to communicate by same means.

Is it though? Does not ending a sentence on 'of' or using the word 'ain't' suddenly make it hard 'to exchange ideas and understanding'?
Is misspelling one word per sentence critical?  Probably not, but it's something you want to try to avoid anyway.  Once you abandon the idea that there is a proper standard to adhere to, communication can get progressively noisier and require more and more energy to process.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:27:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:24:28 AM
That's nice. I'm glad actual discrimination can be hand waved away with 'anything really can be'.

If your definition is merely the existence of culture and society is actual discrimination than you define everybody everywhere for all time was discriminatory and will be for all time. I don't think that is necessarily the case, but it is just not possible to create a culture that satisfies everybody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:36:53 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 11:25:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Seems like someone is forgetting that the point of communication is to communicate.  And that is facilitated by everyone following the same rules.  There are obviously hundreds of ways people can communicate, we call these ways languages, but it is always preferable for two people attempting to exchange ideas and understanding to communicate by same means.

Is it though? Does not ending a sentence on 'of' or using the word 'ain't' suddenly make it hard 'to exchange ideas and understanding'?
Is misspelling one word per sentence critical?  Probably not, but it's something you want to try to avoid anyway.  Once you abandon the idea that there is a proper standard to adhere to, communication can get progressively noisier and require more and more energy to process.

Such a slippery slope. :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:38:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:27:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:24:28 AM
That's nice. I'm glad actual discrimination can be hand waved away with 'anything really can be'.

If your definition is merely the existence of culture and society is actual discrimination than you define everybody everywhere for all time was discriminatory and will be for all time. I don't think that is necessarily the case, but it is just not possible to create a culture that satisfies everybody.

We might be able to have more productive discussions if you weren't out to demolish arguments that I didn't make.

Just so we are clear, I don't agree with the sentiment of the graphic that Marti posted. That's why I suggested a correction. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 09, 2016, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:36:53 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 11:25:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Seems like someone is forgetting that the point of communication is to communicate.  And that is facilitated by everyone following the same rules.  There are obviously hundreds of ways people can communicate, we call these ways languages, but it is always preferable for two people attempting to exchange ideas and understanding to communicate by same means.

Is it though? Does not ending a sentence on 'of' or using the word 'ain't' suddenly make it hard 'to exchange ideas and understanding'?
Is misspelling one word per sentence critical?  Probably not, but it's something you want to try to avoid anyway.  Once you abandon the idea that there is a proper standard to adhere to, communication can get progressively noisier and require more and more energy to process.

Such a slippery slope. :weep:

Racial slurs are never proper.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:38:14 AM
We might be able to have more productive discussions if you weren't out to demolish arguments that I didn't make.

Just so we are clear, I don't agree with the sentiment of the graphic that Marti posted. That's why I suggested a correction. ;)

True I am primarily arguing against the sentiment of the graphic not against you. My apologies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 12:12:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 11:38:14 AM
We might be able to have more productive discussions if you weren't out to demolish arguments that I didn't make.

Just so we are clear, I don't agree with the sentiment of the graphic that Marti posted. That's why I suggested a correction. ;)

True I am primarily arguing against the sentiment of the graphic not against you. My apologies.

:hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 09, 2016, 12:21:10 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:54:55 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 09, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
To passively describe how language is used and only passively describe how language is used without making any judgments is just as foolish as to be overly pedantic about applying "proper" rules that have become outdated by use.

For some reason, people like the author of the above article insist on all-or-nothing absolutes: that you have to be either a backward looking pedant or accept that there is absolutely no such thing as teaching proper English. There is an expression for this: "to throw the baby out with the bathwater". 

The notion that we should just allow kids to speak any way they like without making any effort to teach them, because they are "natural linguists", is strongly implied in that article:

QuoteAs children, we all have the instinct to acquire a set of rules and to apply them. Any toddler is already a grammatical genius. Without conscious effort, we combine words into sentences according to a particular structure, with subjects, objects, verbs, adjectives and so on. We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it's how we see and hear people use the language.

That's how scholarly linguists work. Instead of having some rule book of what is "correct" usage, they examine the evidence of how native and fluent nonnative speakers do in fact use the language. Whatever is in general use in a language (not any use, but general use) is for that reason grammatically correct.

Good luck with that.

Clear communication is a skill like any other: it is acquired, can be taught, and is better with practice and criticism. The notion that every human is simply a natural "grammatical genius" and so does not require any instruction because "Without conscious effort, we combine words into sentences according to a particular structure, with subjects, objects, verbs, adjectives and so on. We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it's how we see and hear people use the language" is, quite simply, absurd.


Yes because the author didn't note that it is possible to make mistakes nor did he note that learning the conventions of one's language is vital.

The author made some worthy points. Too bad he also made some damn silly ones to go along with them.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 09, 2016, 12:24:36 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 09, 2016, 12:21:10 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2016, 10:54:55 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 09, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
To passively describe how language is used and only passively describe how language is used without making any judgments is just as foolish as to be overly pedantic about applying "proper" rules that have become outdated by use.

For some reason, people like the author of the above article insist on all-or-nothing absolutes: that you have to be either a backward looking pedant or accept that there is absolutely no such thing as teaching proper English. There is an expression for this: "to throw the baby out with the bathwater". 

The notion that we should just allow kids to speak any way they like without making any effort to teach them, because they are "natural linguists", is strongly implied in that article:

QuoteAs children, we all have the instinct to acquire a set of rules and to apply them. Any toddler is already a grammatical genius. Without conscious effort, we combine words into sentences according to a particular structure, with subjects, objects, verbs, adjectives and so on. We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it's how we see and hear people use the language.

That's how scholarly linguists work. Instead of having some rule book of what is "correct" usage, they examine the evidence of how native and fluent nonnative speakers do in fact use the language. Whatever is in general use in a language (not any use, but general use) is for that reason grammatically correct.

Good luck with that.

Clear communication is a skill like any other: it is acquired, can be taught, and is better with practice and criticism. The notion that every human is simply a natural "grammatical genius" and so does not require any instruction because "Without conscious effort, we combine words into sentences according to a particular structure, with subjects, objects, verbs, adjectives and so on. We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it's how we see and hear people use the language" is, quite simply, absurd.


Yes because the author didn't note that it is possible to make mistakes nor did he note that learning the conventions of one's language is vital.

The author made some worthy points. Too bad he also made some damn silly ones to go along with them.  :lol:

Nobody is perfect. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2016, 05:00:52 PM
I'd argue that there is such a thing as "formal language," which is expected to conform to some standards (not the same ones everywhere and changing over time) and "informal language" which, inevitably, is less transferable between groups and more widely variable.  While I reject the idea that there is "proper English" and "improper English," I do think that a vital language skill is the one that tells you when to use formal English and when to use informal  English.

It took one of our Spanish exchange students, for example, some time to adjust to the fact that "fuck" was not, in American formal English, an okay word to use.  In his English classes in Spain, it was a mild expletive and he was not chastised for using it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 10, 2016, 12:23:54 AM
garbon is a perfect example how bonkers the "progressive" left can be. Fortunately, that phenomenon is slowly being put to rest, with more and more people being turned away by its idiocy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2016, 01:49:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 10, 2016, 12:23:54 AM
garbon is a perfect example how bonkers the "progressive" left can be. Fortunately, that phenomenon is slowly being put to rest, with more and more people being turned away by its idiocy.

You are going to put me up as the poster boy for a group that I'm not a part of? Interesting.

Well it would be if you weren't such a consistent dumbass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 10, 2016, 01:57:15 AM
I thought it was the "regressive" left?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 10, 2016, 03:52:04 AM
The term regressive left is ironic/sarcastic, progressive left is what they call themselves, here "progressive" was put in scare quotes to denote the name is a misnomer. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 10, 2016, 04:17:47 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 10, 2016, 01:57:15 AM
I thought it was the "regressive" left?

:rolleyes:

Please keep up with Milo's Instagram account, it is impossible to have a conversation with you if you are hours behind the latest definitions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2016, 04:28:53 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 10, 2016, 03:52:04 AM
The term regressive left is ironic/sarcastic, progressive left is what they call themselves, here "progressive" was put in scare quotes to denote the name is a misnomer. :contract:

Perhaps you should focus a little more on trying to communicate clearly. :goodboy:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 10, 2016, 07:49:24 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 10, 2016, 04:17:47 AM

Please keep up with Milo's Instagram account.

I caved and looked up his wiki page. What a self indulgent waste of atoms. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 10, 2016, 07:58:04 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2016, 05:00:52 PM
I'd argue that there is such a thing as "formal language," which is expected to conform to some standards (not the same ones everywhere and changing over time) and "informal language" which, inevitably, is less transferable between groups and more widely variable.  While I reject the idea that there is "proper English" and "improper English," I do think that a vital language skill is the one that tells you when to use formal English and when to use informal  English.

Exactly.

There is code shifting for various groups, and knowing when to use them is vital.  The models of linguistics clearly show that a successful person in one code-group may do poorly in another, simply because the models of speech are different.  This is basic stuff in linguistics, hardly controversial.

The problem comes when those who don't understand language and linguistics attempt to classify the various ranges of language by "proper" and such.

Language is living, mutable, and based on society - of course there are ranges according to situation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 08:56:30 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2016, 07:58:04 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2016, 05:00:52 PM
I'd argue that there is such a thing as "formal language," which is expected to conform to some standards (not the same ones everywhere and changing over time) and "informal language" which, inevitably, is less transferable between groups and more widely variable.  While I reject the idea that there is "proper English" and "improper English," I do think that a vital language skill is the one that tells you when to use formal English and when to use informal  English.

Exactly.

There is code shifting for various groups, and knowing when to use them is vital.  The models of linguistics clearly show that a successful person in one code-group may do poorly in another, simply because the models of speech are different.  This is basic stuff in linguistics, hardly controversial.

The problem comes when those who don't understand language and linguistics attempt to classify the various ranges of language by "proper" and such.

Language is living, mutable, and based on society - of course there are ranges according to situation.

I don't think anyone seriously disputes that different modes of speech are suitable for different occasions. What you guys call "formal English" is what others would term "proper English". There is no expectation that it will be used under all circumstances (in fact, it would be a source of considerable mockery if it was so used  :D ). However, it is important that someone know *how* to use it, and lack of that ability spells doom to attempts to communicate convincingly in formal settings.

The problem in the article cited by Garbon is similar to what happens when people take any concept from linguistics or anthropology too far and too literally. Abandoning any attempt to "prescriptively" teach the rules of "proper English" or "formal English" would do students a significant disservice, and would be a bad idea if it could be universally imposed - because the use of various "informal" speech patterns alone, without access to a universally understood (if variable over time and place) "proper English", would make mutual intelligibility between in-groups more difficult. It therefore makes perfect sense to privilege one set of rules for the purposes of education, call them "proper English" or "formal English" if you like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2016, 09:54:42 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 08:56:30 AM
The problem in the article cited by Garbon is similar to what happens when people take any concept from linguistics or anthropology too far and too literally. Abandoning any attempt to "prescriptively" teach the rules of "proper English" or "formal English" would do students a significant disservice, and would be a bad idea if it could be universally imposed - because the use of various "informal" speech patterns alone, without access to a universally understood (if variable over time and place) "proper English", would make mutual intelligibility between in-groups more difficult. It therefore makes perfect sense to privilege one set of rules for the purposes of education, call them "proper English" or "formal English" if you like.

But that isn't what the article said. :huh:

As noted, he specifically wrote that you need to know what you should use in different situations.

edit: I also think it is perfectly legitimate to question whether or not what is expected in different situations, should be that way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2016, 09:59:09 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13332811_798876740249852_2004149201484084851_n.jpg?oh=122f940ee6a11d5ae3090a0e50846bbd&oe=57CF192C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 10:01:32 AM
El Arroyo wishing we could be an anarchist commune.

Shitty Tex-Mex though. Avoid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 10:10:17 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 10, 2016, 09:54:42 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 08:56:30 AM
The problem in the article cited by Garbon is similar to what happens when people take any concept from linguistics or anthropology too far and too literally. Abandoning any attempt to "prescriptively" teach the rules of "proper English" or "formal English" would do students a significant disservice, and would be a bad idea if it could be universally imposed - because the use of various "informal" speech patterns alone, without access to a universally understood (if variable over time and place) "proper English", would make mutual intelligibility between in-groups more difficult. It therefore makes perfect sense to privilege one set of rules for the purposes of education, call them "proper English" or "formal English" if you like.

But that isn't what the article said. :huh:

As noted, he specifically wrote that you need to know what you should use in different situations.

edit: I also think it is perfectly legitimate to question whether or not what is expected in different situations, should be that way.

Your article is a poster child for taking a good idea and going too far with it. I agree with much of what it says: but it goes too far, and concludes that there is no use for "proper English". This statement is a bit of a tautology:

QuoteBut it is not possible for everyone, or the majority of educated users of the language, to be wrong on the same point at the same time.

What, exactly, makes someone an "educated user of the language" other than knowledge of the conventions of "proper English"? Indeed, the author is doing exactly what he accuses his target of doing: privileging one group of language users ("educated users of the language") over all others. Nor is he wrong to do so - he's quite right to do so. Only, that's exactly what differentiates "proper English" from the other forms!  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2016, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 10:10:17 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 10, 2016, 09:54:42 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 08:56:30 AM
The problem in the article cited by Garbon is similar to what happens when people take any concept from linguistics or anthropology too far and too literally. Abandoning any attempt to "prescriptively" teach the rules of "proper English" or "formal English" would do students a significant disservice, and would be a bad idea if it could be universally imposed - because the use of various "informal" speech patterns alone, without access to a universally understood (if variable over time and place) "proper English", would make mutual intelligibility between in-groups more difficult. It therefore makes perfect sense to privilege one set of rules for the purposes of education, call them "proper English" or "formal English" if you like.

But that isn't what the article said. :huh:

As noted, he specifically wrote that you need to know what you should use in different situations.

edit: I also think it is perfectly legitimate to question whether or not what is expected in different situations, should be that way.

Your article is a poster child for taking a good idea and going too far with it. I agree with much of what it says: but it goes too far, and concludes that there is no use for "proper English". This statement is a bit of a tautology:

QuoteBut it is not possible for everyone, or the majority of educated users of the language, to be wrong on the same point at the same time.

What, exactly, makes someone an "educated user of the language" other than knowledge of the conventions of "proper English"? Indeed, the author is doing exactly what he accuses his target of doing: privileging one group of language users ("educated users of the language") over all others. Nor is he wrong to do so - he's quite right to do so. Only, that's exactly what differentiates "proper English" from the other forms!  :lol:

I'm just calling out that you shouldn't take his rhetorical excess and extend that to mean his thesis is something counter to what he's actually written. He's rather in line with things that you, Grumbler, PDH and myself have said but then with a fair dosing of Psellus dairy pants excitement.  Still I thought it was a decent enough article to post even if fundamentally tarnished by said exuberance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 10, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
The point being that there is a standard defined English, and there are vernaculars, regional and social.  There are also dialects, and there are even admixtures of two languages.  All of them that have internally consistent rules, usage, and understanding are parts of the English Language.

What makes the standard the standard?  It is not always correct.  Speak that Upper Midwest Broadcaster English deep in the Barrio, and you might well find that this is rather improper for the moment, just as the Barrio-Speak at the Waldorf is not proper.

For the linguist, not the socio-linguist, the fact that both have their own rules, grammars, and syntax that are followed makes both vernaculars - but neither can be classified as less of a language (or technically part of a language) than the other.  The socio-linguist would take this farther and say that in practice it is all about the situation - proper and improper are therefore very much situationally based.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 10, 2016, 01:32:29 PM
I think today will be "Talk Like an Old-Time Newspaper Sports Reporter" Day.

"...the greatest individual display of thread writing this reporter's ever seen!" *tap, tap, tap*
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2016, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
The point being that there is a standard defined English

Is that the case though? As I noted previously what could be standard English differs by nation which would seem to undermine the notion of 'a' Standard English even though there might be various standards by nation. 

Wiki has this to say: "Standard English (SE) refers to whatever form of the English language is accepted as a national norm in any English-speaking country. It encompasses grammar, vocabulary and spelling. In the British Isles, particularly in England and Wales, it is often associated with: the "Received Pronunciation" accent (there are several variants of the accent) and UKSE (United Kingdom Standard English), which refers to grammar and vocabulary. In Scotland the standard is Scottish Standard English. In the United States it is generally associated with (though controversially) the General American accent and in Australia with General Australian."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 01:38:33 PM
I don't know if any language is standardized across national borders. The Canadians, and other non-Frenchy Francophones, tend to ignore the pronouncements of the Académie française.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 10, 2016, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 01:38:33 PM
I don't know if any language is standardized across national borders. The Canadians, and other non-Frenchy Francophones, tend to ignore the pronouncements of the Académie française.
Not quite.

Everyone ignores the pronouncements of the Académie Française in everyday speech.
Education and official communications are another matter entirely.  Though the Frogs tend to use more english words than we do, in their official communications.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
The point being that there is a standard defined English, and there are vernaculars, regional and social.  There are also dialects, and there are even admixtures of two languages.  All of them that have internally consistent rules, usage, and understanding are parts of the English Language.

What makes the standard the standard?  It is not always correct.  Speak that Upper Midwest Broadcaster English deep in the Barrio, and you might well find that this is rather improper for the moment, just as the Barrio-Speak at the Waldorf is not proper.

For the linguist, not the socio-linguist, the fact that both have their own rules, grammars, and syntax that are followed makes both vernaculars - but neither can be classified as less of a language (or technically part of a language) than the other.  The socio-linguist would take this farther and say that in practice it is all about the situation - proper and improper are therefore very much situationally based.

This is why we should not put socio-linguists in charge of education.  ;)

The point is that talking about "standard", "formal" or "proper" English is all about privileging one set or rules over another - one "standard" that everyone is expected to know, if they wish to communicate clearly and effectively outside their immediate community.

Now all this talk about "privilege" and "proper" is just hateful to your modern progressive - to them, it just sounds like racism, colonialism, and every other sort of -ism that they dislike. To my mind, it doesn't have to be. It can, in fact, be empowering - if all you know is "Barrio-Speak", you are at a big disadvantage in communicating with anyone outside the Barrio compared with someone who can talk "Barrio-speak" in the Barrio and "proper English" outside the Barrio, right? Therefore, in actually teaching language, it is better to have as the goal the teaching of "proper English" (which not everyone learns from 'their street') rather than Barrio-speak (which, presumably, people do learn from 'the street' - but each community has a different version).

Sure, each is a language, but one is a language useful for communicating with people in the world at large, and one is not.

Everyone more or less understand this, but it is a point that can get lost among all this discussion of how "there is no such thing as proper English". 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 10, 2016, 02:11:17 PM
I agree with everything that Peedy said, except he left out the fact that the various types of English do have a relationship with economic opportunity.

I've always thought the best way to teach ghetto kids English is to tell them it's a second language they have to master if they want any real chance of economic advancement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 02:19:40 PM
As an example of this process, I point to the history of Ebonics in education. The whole point of Ebonics, originally, was to cease disregarding Black dialect as 'unworthy' and use it in education -- with the ultimate goal of helping kids who grew up using the dialect to learn "standard English".

It was derided (unfairly, at least initially) as an attempt to teach Black kids dialect, rather than standard English. However, as time went on, some embraced the mistake and started to insist that forcing Black kids to learn "standard", even using AAVE as a tool for this purpose, was a sort of linguistic racism:

QuoteAccording to Smitherman, the controversy and debates concerning AAVE in public schools imply deeper deterministic attitudes towards the African-American community as a whole. Smitherman describes this as a reflection of the "power elite's perceived insignificance and hence rejection of Afro-American language and culture".[139] She also asserts that African Americans are forced to conform to European American society in order to succeed, and that conformity ultimately means the "eradication of black language . . . and the adoption of the linguistic norms of the white middle class." The necessity for "bi-dialectialism" (AAVE and General American) means "some blacks contend that being bi-dialectal not only causes a schism in the black personality, but it also implies such dialects are 'good enough' for blacks but not for whites."[140]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English#In_education

The point though is that ultimately there must be some mutually intelligible agreed-on standard. That standard is likely going to be established, by definition, by those in the majority and in positions of influence. Those who are not in the majority and who do not have influence are going to have to learn it, if they wish to be understood - hence persuade - the powerful and influential, or perhaps become powerful and influential themselves ... either that, or get the majority, the powerful and the influential to learn their dialect. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 02:21:48 PM
Yeah well white people who speak dialects have the same issue. And not all Afro-Americans speak the same dialect. Far from it.

Besides it is not like the Afro-American dialects have not had a large effect on how Americans speak English in general. This sounds like a vast simplification for the point of telling a certain story.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 10, 2016, 02:25:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 02:21:48 PM
Yeah well white people who speak dialects have the same issue. And not all Afro-Americans speak the same dialect. Far from it.

Exactly. That's why a "standard" of "proper" English is a good thing. If (say) a white dialect speaker wishes to talk to a Black dialect speaker, it would be best if both could switch out of dialect and speak in "standard" to each other, or they may not be mutually intelligible. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 02:35:31 PM
Besides I have never been clear if speaking an Afro-American dialect as a white person was considered demeaning or insulting. This lady says it is not "good enough" for me. But if I did speak it then these same left wing people probably insist it was appropriation of some kind. I wish they would be clear on what is considered acceptable and what is considered racist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on June 10, 2016, 02:42:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 02:21:48 PM
Yeah well white people who speak dialects have the same issue.

You could almost turn that into a song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAYUuspQ6BY).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 02:46:33 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 10, 2016, 02:42:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 02:21:48 PM
Yeah well white people who speak dialects have the same issue.

You could almost turn that into a song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAYUuspQ6BY).

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 10, 2016, 02:58:07 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on June 10, 2016, 02:42:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2016, 02:21:48 PM
Yeah well white people who speak dialects have the same issue.

You could almost turn that into a song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAYUuspQ6BY).

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 10, 2016, 06:16:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 10, 2016, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
The point being that there is a standard defined English

Is that the case though? As I noted previously what could be standard English differs by nation which would seem to undermine the notion of 'a' Standard English even though there might be various standards by nation. 

Wiki has this to say: "Standard English (SE) refers to whatever form of the English language is accepted as a national norm in any English-speaking country. It encompasses grammar, vocabulary and spelling. In the British Isles, particularly in England and Wales, it is often associated with: the "Received Pronunciation" accent (there are several variants of the accent) and UKSE (United Kingdom Standard English), which refers to grammar and vocabulary. In Scotland the standard is Scottish Standard English. In the United States it is generally associated with (though controversially) the General American accent and in Australia with General Australian."

You are right, there are several standard English norms - what I was referring to was within these norms there are standardized grammars, spellings, syntax, etc.  Think here, textbook (American) English, for example.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 12, 2016, 11:04:13 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13342868_10155000538234863_897892266040613892_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=321009240bcc00368cac8b8762e51806&oe=57CB09DF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 12, 2016, 11:10:03 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2016, 06:16:25 PMYou are right, there are several standard English norms - what I was referring to was within these norms there are standardized grammars, spellings, syntax, etc.  Think here, textbook (American) English, for example.

and within american english, there's no standard by which all must follow. for example, consider punctuation: authors frequently abandon those rigid laws. one could, conceivably, correctly, use punctuation, and, therefore, it would, for sure, be correct, but it's really pretty awful, for the reader, to slog through, and, I don't think, it's reasonable to demand everyone to conform absolutely
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 12, 2016, 11:13:26 PM
i think, you have, no clue about punctuation
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2016, 11:14:13 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 12, 2016, 11:10:03 PM
and within american english, there's no standard by which all must follow. for example, consider punctuation: authors frequently abandon those rigid laws. one could, conceivably, correctly, use punctuation, and, therefore, it would, for sure, be correct, but it's really pretty awful, for the reader, to slog through, and, I don't think, it's reasonable to demand everyone to conform absolutely

You need to stop that right now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 12, 2016, 11:15:30 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 12, 2016, 11:13:26 PM
i think, you have, no clue about punctuation

was there a punctuation error? show where
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 12, 2016, 11:21:44 PM
I'm still skipping over everything LaCroix writes.  Too much energy is needed to read posts that deliberately ignore basic grammar rules, and in my experience, very few people worth reading write that way on the Internet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 12, 2016, 11:23:43 PM
I'm still calling you out on that one time I wrote correctly just to appease you  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on June 12, 2016, 11:33:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 12, 2016, 11:21:44 PM
I'm still skipping over everything LaCroix writes.  Too much energy is needed to read posts that deliberately ignore basic grammar rules, and in my experience, very few people worth reading write that way on the Internet.

:yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 12, 2016, 11:49:02 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 12, 2016, 11:33:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 12, 2016, 11:21:44 PM
I'm still skipping over everything LaCroix writes.  Too much energy is needed to read posts that deliberately ignore basic grammar rules, and in my experience, very few people worth reading write that way on the Internet.

:yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2016, 12:12:06 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 12, 2016, 11:15:30 PM
was there a punctuation error? show where

No period on last sentence, colon used incorrectly, half your commas used incorrectly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 13, 2016, 12:13:47 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 12, 2016, 11:10:03 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2016, 06:16:25 PMYou are right, there are several standard English norms - what I was referring to was within these norms there are standardized grammars, spellings, syntax, etc.  Think here, textbook (American) English, for example.

and within american english, there's no standard by which all must follow. for example, consider punctuation: authors frequently abandon those rigid laws. one could, conceivably, correctly, use punctuation, and, therefore, it would, for sure, be correct, but it's really pretty awful, for the reader, to slog through, and, I don't think, it's reasonable to demand everyone to conform absolutely

Within American English, there's no standard which all must follow.  For example, consider punctuation:  authors frequently abandon these rigid laws.  One could, conceivably, use punctuation correctly, and therefore be sure to be correct.  But it's really pretty awful for the reader to slog through and it's not reasonable, in my opinion, to demand that everyone conform absolutely.

EDIT:  This is the cleaned-up version as far as syntax goes; the point you're trying to make remains unclear.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 13, 2016, 12:41:11 AM
 the point is that writing rules are about readability: one should abandon the rules when necessary to make their document more readable. obsessive adherence to the rules can fuck the one's writing and actually make it less clear.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2016, 12:46:45 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 13, 2016, 12:41:11 AM
the point is that writing rules are about readability: one should abandon the rules when necessary to make their document more readable. obsessive adherence to the rules can fuck the one's writing and actually make it less clear.
Your post was supposed to illustrate something about adherence to the rules?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 13, 2016, 12:50:42 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2016, 12:46:45 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 13, 2016, 12:41:11 AM
the point is that writing rules are about readability: one should abandon the rules when necessary to make their document more readable. obsessive adherence to the rules can fuck the one's writing and actually make it less clear.
Your post was supposed to illustrate something about adherence to the rules?  :huh:

yeah, there are times when it just looks clunky. usually with phrases like: ", and therefore . . ." I could use additional commas there, but it breaks the sentence's flow. the rules should be a guiding tool but should also be disregarded when they take away rather than add to the sentence
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 13, 2016, 12:57:28 AM
Your post demonstrated lack of adherence to grammatical rules as well as lack of adherence to the principle of communication (hence my attempt at a cleaned-up version to improve both), so it's a little mystifying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 13, 2016, 01:00:09 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 13, 2016, 12:57:28 AM
Your post demonstrated lack of adherence to grammatical rules as well as lack of adherence to the principle of communication, so it's a little mystifying.

which grammatical rules? I disregarded the principle of communication with the thousand commas to that strict adherence to rules of punctuation don't always work and can hurt communication
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2016, 01:03:13 AM
Neither Mahilia nor I thought your comma in between every word was strict adherence to the rules of grammar, or even in the same area code.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 13, 2016, 01:06:11 AM
with how I structured the sentences, they were. we can debate the punctuation usage once you show instances where you think I used improper punctuation
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2016, 01:12:35 AM
I don't think, it's reasonable.  You don't put a comma there for starters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 13, 2016, 01:15:58 AM
full section was "and, I don't think, it's reasonable . . ."

the sentence wasn't saying "I don't think it's reasonable"; rather, it was saying something like "and--I don't think at least--it's reasonable"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2016, 01:31:12 AM
It's reasonable, you don't think?  Dude, that's not English.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 13, 2016, 01:35:25 AM
Languish First Law of Entropy: Any thread, sooner or later, develops into a discussion of syntax and semantics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 13, 2016, 01:38:56 AM
You misused "by which" in the first sentence.  And the second sentence -- "one could, conceivably, correctly, use punctuation, and, therefore, it would, for sure, be correct, but it's really pretty awful, for the reader, to slog through, and, I don't think, it's reasonable to demand everyone to conform absolutely" -- does not use commas correctly to set off clauses. 

You seem to be under the impression that the correct use of commas is simply to set off any adverb, which is wrong.  For instance, the "correctly" shouldn't be set off with commas because it directly modifies "use" (and if we were being ultra-grammarians and refusing to split infinitives, it would read "one could, conceivably, use correctly punctuation...". 

The commas around "conceivably" are only stylistic, not grammatically-required; FWIW, I would either use no punctuation there, i.e. "one could conceivably use punctuation corrrectly") or use parentheses instead, i.e. "one could (conceivably) use punctuation correctly".  (I realize these sentences do split the infinitive, but I think the rule against split infinitives is one of those antiquated and unhelpful grammatical rules that can safely be jettisoned.  The same goes for the rule against ending sentences on a preposition, if bizarre verbal gymnastics are necessary to avoid doing so.)

"Therefore" is misused since no conclusion is being drawn after an argument; "thereby" would be the better choice.  "It" is misused since you begin the sentence discussing a person ("one") not a work. 

"For the reader" is not a clause that can or should be set off with commas, nor is "to slog through."

"I (don't) think" is a clause that could be set off with commas, but only after the descriptor, e.g. "it's unreasonable, I think, to demand..."  If you went with "it's not reasonable, I don't think, to demand..." you'd have an unnecessary double-negative, but it would still be closer both to proper grammar and to intelligibility than what you actually wrote.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on June 13, 2016, 01:46:12 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/13450915_1110992278971680_6601082435393502159_n.jpg?oh=576efa69312895a7cc5d40c22589cccd&oe=57C7E46E&__gda__=1472516189_7cd6465e430c87ace8bcca1277f3fdc3)

:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 13, 2016, 10:41:54 AM
thanks for the explanations, CM, will go through and check it out later when I've got time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 13, 2016, 10:47:53 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 13, 2016, 10:41:54 AM
thanks for the explanations, CM, will go through and check it out later when I've got time.

Make sure to also reply, phrase by phrase.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 15, 2016, 05:57:49 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtUG9hio.jpg&hash=9f33e6f8f47d52937f2e69ce83c4cc9db2114559)


I really hope the sign is fake, or otherwise Valmy needs explain how this happened.

Actual quote:


QuoteAmong the many interesting objects, which will engage your attention, that of providing for the common defence will merit particular regard. To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a Uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.

    The proper establishment of the Troops which may be deemed indispensible, will be entitled to mature consideration. In the arrangements which may be made respecting it, it will be of importance to conciliate the comfortable support of the Officers and Soldiers with a due regard to economy.


It's from the first annual address to Congress
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2016, 08:33:19 PM
Huh. I have never seen a sign like that before. It does kind of look like a state historical marker:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texasescapes.com%2FWestTexasTowns%2FNotreesTexas%2FNotreesTexasHistoricalMarker806GeorgeHollis.jpg&hash=40f44db0a3eefe600fd220a033e3b992abd2600d)

So I vote for a photo shop of one. I am not sure where we would post such a marker.

It does sound like something Washington and Jefferson might say if one put both brains in the same body or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 15, 2016, 08:47:52 PM
It didn't occur to me at the moment, but the fact that they put the second amendment with a doctored quote and then attributed it to George Washington it implies that the entire thing is part of the 2nd amendment and the US constitution was written (at least in part) by George Washington.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 15, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 12, 2016, 11:10:03 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 10, 2016, 06:16:25 PMYou are right, there are several standard English norms - what I was referring to was within these norms there are standardized grammars, spellings, syntax, etc.  Think here, textbook (American) English, for example.

and within american english, there's no standard by which all must follow. for example, consider punctuation: authors frequently abandon those rigid laws. one could, conceivably, correctly, use punctuation, and, therefore, it would, for sure, be correct, but it's really pretty awful, for the reader, to slog through, and, I don't think, it's reasonable to demand everyone to conform absolutely

What part of "standardized grammars, spelling, syntax, etc." would lead you to believe I said there were rigid rules that must be followed?  My whole argument was that there were many versions of English, all of them linguistically correct, but there is still an educational norm of "Standard English" which (others have pointed out better than I) are often required to succeed due to basic human societal factors.

Note - I could add a few commas if you wish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 15, 2016, 10:04:38 PM
I like the fact the English never standardized their language like the French.  It creates such beautiful chaos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 15, 2016, 11:02:10 PM
Please, give me an example of how the French standardized their language.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 15, 2016, 11:25:06 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 15, 2016, 11:02:10 PM
Please, give me an example of how the French standardized their language.

I would assume he was talking about the Académie française.  Which without any profound knowledge of the topic, sounds like a pretty good attempt at standardization.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2016, 11:50:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 15, 2016, 10:04:38 PM
I like the fact the English never standardized their language like the French.  It creates such beautiful chaos.

Oh FFS. You just will not stop talking trash will you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 16, 2016, 12:10:30 AM
 :lol:

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13417416_10208263645822895_606569431676700756_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=9488902266aee8d58fcf73810afde0e6&oe=57DBB74F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2016, 12:23:38 AM
Um...ok  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 16, 2016, 12:25:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2016, 12:23:38 AM
Um...ok  :huh:

The whole article is in Berkut's shrilly gun thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 12:42:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 15, 2016, 11:25:06 PM
I would assume he was talking about the Académie française.  Which without any profound knowledge of the topic, sounds like a pretty good attempt at standardization.

Of course that is what he is thinking about. But, as you indicated, the problem is "without any profound knowledge of the topic". It just presumes a bunch of stuff stemming from a crude set of vague ideas about "the French".

How, exactly, did the Académie française "standardized" the French language in ways that various other institutions in English-speaking countries, did not? Was there no process of standardization of English? I thought the whole point of the previous discussion was indeed that there are standards of English - indeed, anyone opening a variety of books from the 16th century will realize quite quickly, that the variations in punctuation, in spelling, in letter choices ("u" for "v") have all been standardized. It is, in fact, a process that is quite well studied, in increasingly fine detail thanks to digitized books.  So, I want to know, what it is that the Dictionnaire of the Académie did that the OED, the Webster, or Samuel Johnson's dictionary, did not.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2016, 12:53:23 AM
He just hates the French and takes every innocuous thing as a sign of their ethnic inferiority to the glories of Missouri.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 01:05:22 AM
Perhaps he had a bad time in Bonne Terre, MO. Or was swindled by the Laclède Gaz Company. Or fell in the River Des Pères.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 01:21:04 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 12:42:26 AM
How, exactly, did the Académie française "standardized" the French language in ways that various other institutions in English-speaking countries, did not?

Told everyone to use "informatique" instead of "computer."  I can't think of an equivalent case in English.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 02:00:26 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 12:42:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 15, 2016, 11:25:06 PM
I would assume he was talking about the Académie française.  Which without any profound knowledge of the topic, sounds like a pretty good attempt at standardization.

Of course that is what he is thinking about. But, as you indicated, the problem is "without any profound knowledge of the topic". It just presumes a bunch of stuff stemming from a crude set of vague ideas about "the French".

How, exactly, did the Académie française "standardized" the French language in ways that various other institutions in English-speaking countries, did not? Was there no process of standardization of English? I thought the whole point of the previous discussion was indeed that there are standards of English - indeed, anyone opening a variety of books from the 16th century will realize quite quickly, that the variations in punctuation, in spelling, in letter choices ("u" for "v") have all been standardized. It is, in fact, a process that is quite well studied, in increasingly fine detail thanks to digitized books.  So, I want to know, what it is that the Dictionnaire of the Académie did that the OED, the Webster, or Samuel Johnson's dictionary, did not.

What did the Academie have that Webster did not?  Government money and the power of law.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 02:09:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 02:00:26 AM
What did the Academie have that Webster did not?  Government money and the power of law.

Please, do go on. Which law, exactly? What did "Government money" allowed the Académie to do?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 02:20:32 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 01:21:04 AM
Told everyone to use "informatique" instead of "computer."  I can't think of an equivalent case in English.

What?

I am not sure what you are referring to. If you mean "ordinateur" for computer, the word was developed within IBM. If you refer to "informatique" for what is designated as "computer science" in the USA, the word was similarly developed elsewhere (within academia, in fact), and picked up by the corporate world. In the US, my understanding is that "informatics" was blocked from use by copyright issues...

I think a lot of people here are confused about what the Académie française is doing. It issues recommendations on new words, new realities, new technologies. Informatique and ordinateur were picked up by the public. "Mercatique", as an alternate form of marketing, was not, despite being a recommendation. The Académie gets some media coverage, but much less than, say, the new words entering the Larousse, or the Robert - much like you'll find short articles about the new words entering the OED. There are similar forces at play for terminology standardization in the USA, or in Canada - legislation does a lot of that job, departments of terminology, etc.. What the Académie has, is a public existence in the media that these departments do not have, but how it is supposed to actually translates into monstrous State standardization to a level unseen anywhere else remains, to me, a mystery. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 03:04:51 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 02:20:32 AM
What?

I am not sure what you are referring to. If you mean "ordinateur" for computer, the word was developed within IBM. If you refer to "informatique" for what is designated as "computer science" in the USA, the word was similarly developed elsewhere (within academia, in fact), and picked up by the corporate world. In the US, my understanding is that "informatics" was blocked from use by copyright issues...

I think a lot of people here are confused about what the Académie française is doing. It issues recommendations on new words, new realities, new technologies. Informatique and ordinateur were picked up by the public. "Mercatique", as an alternate form of marketing, was not, despite being a recommendation. The Académie gets some media coverage, but much less than, say, the new words entering the Larousse, or the Robert - much like you'll find short articles about the new words entering the OED. There are similar forces at play for terminology standardization in the USA, or in Canada - legislation does a lot of that job, departments of terminology, etc.. What the Académie has, is a public existence in the media that these departments do not have, but how it is supposed to actually translates into monstrous State standardization to a level unseen anywhere else remains, to me, a mystery.

Oops.  Ordinateur.

The way I read the story ages and ages ago was that the French were using computer, the Acadamie said we can't use an English word, so we have to come up with a French word.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 03:19:21 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 03:04:51 AM
The way I read the story ages and ages ago was that the French were using computer, the Acadamie said we can't use an English word, so we have to come up with a French word.

Nope. It's IBM attempting to sell its stuff in France, trying to find a French name. Asked a professor of medieval philology, who turned to the Littré dictionary (not even the Académie's...) and to Latin. IBM tried to copyright the word, but relented in the face of its popularity.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.konbini.com%2Ffr%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F05%2Flettre-ordinateur-ok-810x987.jpg&hash=00a5b7e709d801f4d19aa5a4a13eb5e88d389d5e)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 16, 2016, 04:38:43 AM
Discussions on obscure little languages like English of French bore me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 16, 2016, 04:47:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 16, 2016, 04:38:43 AM
Discussions on obscure little languages like English of French bore me.

I'm not even sure on what level this was supposed to work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 08:34:32 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 02:09:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 02:00:26 AM
What did the Academie have that Webster did not?  Government money and the power of law.

Please, do go on. Which law, exactly? What did "Government money" allowed the Académie to do?

Have a big building, exist, publish, make recommendations to the government about official use, award prizes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 16, 2016, 08:44:09 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 03:19:21 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 03:04:51 AM
The way I read the story ages and ages ago was that the French were using computer, the Acadamie said we can't use an English word, so we have to come up with a French word.

Nope. It's IBM attempting to sell its stuff in France, trying to find a French name. Asked a professor of medieval philology, who turned to the Littré dictionary (not even the Académie's...) and to Latin. IBM tried to copyright the word, but relented in the face of its popularity.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.konbini.com%2Ffr%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F05%2Flettre-ordinateur-ok-810x987.jpg&hash=00a5b7e709d801f4d19aa5a4a13eb5e88d389d5e)

Are you seriously arguing that the Académie does not try to standardize french?

It's their stated mission.

QuoteXXIV
La principale fonction de l'Académie sera de travailler
avec tout le soin et toute la diligence possibles à donner
des règles certaines à notre langue et à la rendre pure,
éloquente et capable de traiter les arts et les sciences.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 16, 2016, 10:37:10 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 12:42:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 15, 2016, 11:25:06 PM
I would assume he was talking about the Académie française.  Which without any profound knowledge of the topic, sounds like a pretty good attempt at standardization.

Of course that is what he is thinking about. But, as you indicated, the problem is "without any profound knowledge of the topic". It just presumes a bunch of stuff stemming from a crude set of vague ideas about "the French".

How, exactly, did the Académie française "standardized" the French language in ways that various other institutions in English-speaking countries, did not? Was there no process of standardization of English? I thought the whole point of the previous discussion was indeed that there are standards of English - indeed, anyone opening a variety of books from the 16th century will realize quite quickly, that the variations in punctuation, in spelling, in letter choices ("u" for "v") have all been standardized. It is, in fact, a process that is quite well studied, in increasingly fine detail thanks to digitized books.  So, I want to know, what it is that the Dictionnaire of the Académie did that the OED, the Webster, or Samuel Johnson's dictionary, did not.

Why don't you take that pole out of your butt for a second?

Look, my understanding is that the Académie française is the government-sponsored agency in charge of the French language.  The wiki page would confirm this:

QuoteThe Académie is France's official authority on the usages, vocabulary, and grammar of the French language.

Which as an anglophone sounds odd, since we have no such official agency in charge of English.

If you want to go "hey, wait a second, doesn't the OED have a similar role in English", I'd be very interested in hearing that perspective.  I have no dog in this hunt - I'm not arguing for any particular point.  But no, you go off on me having "a crude set of vague ideas about "the French"" and attack me for saying something that, still, doesn't seem at all incorrect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 16, 2016, 10:50:13 AM
French speakers seem to have a helluva lot of chips on their shoulders.

Well at least the ones who post on Languish. -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 10:59:21 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 16, 2016, 10:37:10 AM
If you want to go "hey, wait a second, doesn't the OED have a similar role in English", I'd be very interested in hearing that perspective.  I have no dog in this hunt - I'm not arguing for any particular point.  But no, you go off on me having "a crude set of vague ideas about "the French"" and attack me for saying something that, still, doesn't seem at all incorrect.

I know - though I used your post to go on, my points were not addressed to you, but to Raz, who (still) doesn't know what he is talking about. I am sorry if I came across as though I was spouting off at you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 16, 2016, 11:02:47 AM
What else is new with Raz though?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 10:59:21 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 16, 2016, 10:37:10 AM
If you want to go "hey, wait a second, doesn't the OED have a similar role in English", I'd be very interested in hearing that perspective.  I have no dog in this hunt - I'm not arguing for any particular point.  But no, you go off on me having "a crude set of vague ideas about "the French"" and attack me for saying something that, still, doesn't seem at all incorrect.

I know - though I used your post to go on, my points were not addressed to you, but to Raz, who (still) doesn't know what he is talking about. I am sorry if I came across as though I was spouting off at you.

Okay, if I don't know why don't you tell me.  What was the purpose of the French government forming of the French Acadamy, and giving it a budget, staff and palace?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 16, 2016, 11:30:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 10:59:21 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 16, 2016, 10:37:10 AM
If you want to go "hey, wait a second, doesn't the OED have a similar role in English", I'd be very interested in hearing that perspective.  I have no dog in this hunt - I'm not arguing for any particular point.  But no, you go off on me having "a crude set of vague ideas about "the French"" and attack me for saying something that, still, doesn't seem at all incorrect.

I know - though I used your post to go on, my points were not addressed to you, but to Raz, who (still) doesn't know what he is talking about. I am sorry if I came across as though I was spouting off at you.

Okay, if I don't know why don't you tell me.  What was the purpose of the French government forming of the French Acadamy, and giving it a budget, staff and palace?
Sinecure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 01:02:18 PM
"The French Government", being Richelieu as master of royal patronage, wanted a retinue of writers to exalt the glory of Louis XIII, a collection of nom de plume for his own propagandist writings, and a group of sponsored writers who would establish French as much as a language of arts and eloquence as was Latin. What one could ascribe to an effort of standardization, its 1694 Dictionary, was governed by the principle of "uses" rather than prescription; its diffusion, marred by an extremely slow publication process, was much lower than Furetière's own Universal Dictionary of 1684, revised by the Jesuits, and adopted by them in their teachings.

As an Academy, the Académie française probably contributed much less to standardization of the French language - a complex process spanning centuries and involving, in France as in England, the language of chancelleries and the law - than the Royal Academy of Sciences in England contributed to the standardization of the language of science.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 01:12:39 PM
Why the scare quotes around "French Government"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 01:18:25 PM
Because you use it in a ahistorical manner, to convey meanings more properly attached to later, 19th or 20th century government practices, to the sort of royal government that oversaw the foundation of the Académie. By the same token, one could say that the British government sponsored Shakespeare.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 02:25:31 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 01:18:25 PM
Because you use it in a ahistorical manner, to convey meanings more properly attached to later, 19th or 20th century government practices, to the sort of royal government that oversaw the foundation of the Académie. By the same token, one could say that the British government sponsored Shakespeare.

I suppose I could.  In fact, I have no problem with saying that governments sponsers artists, inventors, scientists and builders.  You have a point but a very narrow one, that government was different in the 17th century.  This is true, but it still means that that the Acadamy had both a mission to regulate the French language and state funding in the person of the monarch and was continued long after the death of King Louis XIII by successive French states.  As far as I know, Noah Webster had no similar advantage.  I know of no similar institution in the United States.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 02:33:36 PM
Ucks, what is the significance of that letter written on Universite de Paris letterhead?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 02:33:36 PM
Ucks, what is the significance of that letter written on Universite de Paris letterhead?

It's the month. It was an old way of dating - 16 IV 55 : April 16th, 1955.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 16, 2016, 06:28:38 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 16, 2016, 12:10:30 AM
:lol:

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13417416_10208263645822895_606569431676700756_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=9488902266aee8d58fcf73810afde0e6&oe=57DBB74F)


(https://www.blogher.com/files/Arizona-gun-range-550.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 07:14:35 PM
 :XD:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 09:14:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 02:33:36 PM
Ucks, what is the significance of that letter written on Universite de Paris letterhead?

And it shows someone (presumably the professor mentioned above) proposing to someone else (presumably IBM) the word "ordinateur" as the French word for "computer" (seemingly on the grounds of a corresponding theological use, from what I can glean from the handwriting and my knowledge of French) back in 1955.  Disproving the idea that the word "computer" was widely used in France until the Academie clamped down on it, which I think was the story you initially said you remembered hearing..
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 09:14:11 PM
And it shows someone (presumably the professor mentioned above) proposing to someone else (presumably IBM) the word "ordinateur" as the French word for "computer" (seemingly on the grounds of a corresponding theological use, from what I can glean from the handwriting and my knowledge of French) back in 1955.  Disproving the idea that the word "computer" was widely used in France until the Academie clamped down on it, which I think was the story you initially said you remembered hearing..

OK, that's what I thought, but I don't see how it disproves that "computer" was used widely in France.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 09:30:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 09:14:11 PM
And it shows someone (presumably the professor mentioned above) proposing to someone else (presumably IBM) the word "ordinateur" as the French word for "computer" (seemingly on the grounds of a corresponding theological use, from what I can glean from the handwriting and my knowledge of French) back in 1955.  Disproving the idea that the word "computer" was widely used in France until the Academie clamped down on it, which I think was the story you initially said you remembered hearing..

OK, that's what I thought, but I don't see how it disproves that "computer" was used widely in France.

Well it certainly suggests "ordinateur" was in use (from a non-Academie source) a solid 30 years before the age of the personal computer.  But if you have documentary evidence that "computer" was making headway in France during this whole time, only to be cut down in its prime by the Academie, by all means share it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2016, 09:31:41 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 09:30:11 PM
Well it certainly suggests "ordinateur" was in use (from a non-Academie source) a solid 30 years before the age of the personal computer.  But if you have documentary evidence that "computer" was making headway in France during this whole time, only to be cut down in its prime by the Academie, by all means share it.

As I said before, it's something I read a very long time ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 09:34:35 PM
Courriel vs. e-mail is the French tech terminology controversy I'm more familiar with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 09:52:34 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 09:30:11 PM


Well it certainly suggests "ordinateur" was in use (from a non-Academie source) a solid 30 years before the age of the personal computer.  But if you have documentary evidence that "computer" was making headway in France during this whole time, only to be cut down in its prime by the Academie, by all means share it.

Well I imagine the French had a word for a computer before the 1980's.  The Americans did: computer.  The US were using Hollerith machines to do the census by the 1890's.

I took a look at the Wikipedia entry for French Orthography  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reforms_of_French_orthography

This line is in there
QuoteThe third (1740) and fourth (1762) editions of the Académie dictionary were very progressive ones, changing the spelling of about half the words altogether.

It's not cited, but if true would indicate that the French Academy did, in fact, do some significant regulating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 09:52:34 PM
It's not cited, but if true would indicate that the French Academy did, in fact, do some significant regulating.

Lol. No it doesn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 09:52:34 PM
Well I imagine the French had a word for a computer before the 1980's.  The Americans did: computer.  The US were using Hollerith machines to do the census by the 1890's.

:huh: Well I too imagine the French had a word for a computer before the 1980s; in fact, I imagine they had their current word for it by April 1955.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 10:25:35 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 09:52:34 PM
It's not cited, but if true would indicate that the French Academy did, in fact, do some significant regulating.

Lol. No it doesn't.

What is the proper percentage of words with altered spelling required to account for significant regulating?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 10:40:03 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 09:52:34 PM
Well I imagine the French had a word for a computer before the 1980's.  The Americans did: computer.  The US were using Hollerith machines to do the census by the 1890's.

:huh: Well I too imagine the French had a word for a computer before the 1980s; in fact, I imagine they had their current word for it by April 1955.

Huh.  They apparently did not have that word by April of 1955, since that is the letter the coins the word.  That's the first time it's used.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 16, 2016, 10:50:03 PM
Remember that "computer" was (before the mid 1940s) a word for someone who did equations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 10:40:03 PM
Huh.  They apparently did not have that word by April of 1955, since that is the letter the coins the word.  That's the first time it's used.

:huh:  The term was coined and they "had" that word, both in April 1955.  Unless you use "by" to refer to temporal events in some non-standard way....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 11:05:21 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 10:40:03 PM
Huh.  They apparently did not have that word by April of 1955, since that is the letter the coins the word.  That's the first time it's used.

:huh:  The term was coined and they "had" that word, both in April 1955.  Unless you use "by" to refer to temporal events in some non-standard way....

Well, By April tends to mean by the beginning of the month ( like get here by 8:00), but "they" as the French people did not unless it got around really, really fast.  I don't  consider the the American people having had the word Computoquerribuck, a word made up by me, by June of 2016.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2016, 07:34:41 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on June 16, 2016, 09:34:35 PM
Courriel vs. e-mail is the French tech terminology controversy I'm more familiar with.

Yeah I am thinking this was what Yi was talking about. French is not the only romance language to use a version of 'ordinateur'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2016, 07:49:39 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 16, 2016, 10:50:13 AM
French speakers seem to have a helluva lot of chips on their shoulders.

Well at least the ones who post on Languish. -_-

Anybody who challenges mis-information and stereotypes has a chip on their shoulders? Did you not get huffy with Viper when he made a gag about gays having commitment issues?

We have an obnoxious bigot like Raz going around spewing his bullshit it does piss me off a bit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2016, 07:53:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 02:25:31 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2016, 01:18:25 PM
Because you use it in a ahistorical manner, to convey meanings more properly attached to later, 19th or 20th century government practices, to the sort of royal government that oversaw the foundation of the Académie. By the same token, one could say that the British government sponsored Shakespeare.

I suppose I could.  In fact, I have no problem with saying that governments sponsers artists, inventors, scientists and builders.  You have a point but a very narrow one, that government was different in the 17th century.  This is true, but it still means that that the Acadamy had both a mission to regulate the French language and state funding in the person of the monarch and was continued long after the death of King Louis XIII by successive French states.  As far as I know, Noah Webster had no similar advantage.  I know of no similar institution in the United States.

There are institutions like this in other European countries. The British have a big fancy building to regulate coats of arms and shit. Besides not every country is exactly identical to the US or should be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 17, 2016, 08:00:49 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 16, 2016, 10:50:03 PM
Remember that "computer" was (before the mid 1940s) a word for someone who did equations.

Verb computer or word still exist in French for calculus or date calculations. Not common but it is found on all decent dictionaries. Heard it in Latin class in high school.

I have seen "computeur" with the same meaning you described

https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/computeur (https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/computeur) Wiktionary, so not a great source I reckon.

http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?29;s=3509478045; (http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?29;s=3509478045;)

COMPUTER, verbe.
Rare
A. Emploi intrans. Déterminer une date; calculer, supputer un temps :
Quant aux ères, ici on compte par l'année de la création, là par olympiade (...). On compute encore par les ères julienne, grégorienne, ibérienne et actienne.
CHATEAUBRIAND, Génie du christianisme, t. 1, 1803, p. 127.
B. Emploi trans., littér. [L'obj. désigne un objet quantifiable] Calculer, évaluer. Si l'on computait tout ce qui est gagné par tous les avocats d'une grande ville (SAY, Traité d'écon. pol., 1832, p. 366). Une mécanique de bois et de métal qui (...) peut computer les tables astronomiques et nautiques jusqu'à n'importe quel point donné (BAUDELAIRE, Nouv. Histoires extraordinaires, trad. d'E. Poë, 1857, p. 383). L'épouvantable catastrophe pécuniaire qu'il computait (J. DE LA VARENDE, Indulgence plénière, 1951, p. 228).
Prononc. et Orth. : [], (je) compute []. Étymol. et Hist. 1595 (MONTAIGNE, Essais, III, 9, éd. A. Thibaudet, p. 1113). Empr. au lat. class. computare « calculer ». Fréq. abs. littér. : 7.

As for the word before ordinateur, it was probably "calculateur". For mainframes à la ENIAC AFAIK
Earlier on, machine arithmétique. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_calculator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_calculator) from Blaise Pascal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise_Pascal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise_Pascal)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 17, 2016, 10:32:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2016, 07:53:26 AM
There are institutions like this in other European countries. The British have a big fancy building to regulate coats of arms and shit. Besides not every country is exactly identical to the US or should be.

Okay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2016, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2016, 10:32:35 AM
Okay.

Some institutions have only tradition and old age to recommend them. Every country has stuff like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 17, 2016, 06:01:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 16, 2016, 10:25:35 PM
What is the proper percentage of words with altered spelling required to account for significant regulating?

I am just going to give you one example to show you how your premises about regulating, and the impact of the Académie, are misguided.

In the 16th, and the early 17th century, the preferred spelling, as in, the most used by writers in print, was throsne. Even at that time, it was in competition with other spellings, notably, throne (this one mostly linked to the printer's uses or not of accents), thrône, and trône.

The first dictionary of the Académie, in 1694, retained throne. No s, no accent.
In 1740, it changed for trône, with the accent.

This is a google ngram viewer. It digs within google's digitized books to track the occurrences of words. You can see that the publishing of the Académie's dictionary has little to do with the frequencies of spelling. Even as the Académie retained throne, most writers were using the version without the "h". The decline of "throne" had begun much earlier in print.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=throsne%2Ctr%C3%B4ne%2Ctrone%2Cthr%C3%B4ne%2C+trosne&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1600&year_end=1790&corpus=19&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t4%3B%2Cthrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Bthrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BThrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2Ctr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Btr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2Ctrone%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Btrone%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTrone%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTRONE%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2Cthr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3BThr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B%3Bthr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2Ctrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Btrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTrosne%3B%2Cc0 (https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=throsne%2Ctr%C3%B4ne%2Ctrone%2Cthr%C3%B4ne%2C+trosne&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1600&year_end=1790&corpus=19&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t4%3B%2Cthrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Bthrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BThrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2Ctr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Btr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2Ctrone%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Btrone%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTrone%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTRONE%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2Cthr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3BThr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B%3Bthr%C3%B4ne%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2Ctrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Btrosne%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTrosne%3B%2Cc0)

There is a reason for that: the Académie's main tool for suggestion, the Dictionary, was published slowly, and in very small numbers. No one could find it. No one bought it. Its impact was marginal. Much more influential was Antoine Furetière's own competing dictionary, which the Jesuits adopted for their teachings, and modernized later as the Dictionnaire de Trévoux. But even Furetière's popular dictionary, who retained "Trosne", did not curb the more widespread use.   

Did the French language standardize over time? Absolutely. Like all other languages in print. Was it the work of the Académie? Not really.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 17, 2016, 06:58:32 PM
Okay Oex, if you want me to believe that the institutions of your country don't actually do what they are designed to do, then who am I to argue with you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 18, 2016, 04:57:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2016, 06:58:32 PM
Okay Oex, if you want me to believe that the institutions of your country don't actually do what they are designed to do, then who am I to argue with you?

Do you realise Oexmelin is not French?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 18, 2016, 07:00:16 AM
Nope.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 18, 2016, 07:48:01 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 18, 2016, 07:00:16 AM
Nope.

:lmfao:

I can see that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 18, 2016, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2016, 06:58:32 PM
Okay Oex, if you want me to believe that the institutions of your country don't actually do what they are designed to do, then who am I to argue with you?

Oex isn't French.

And how is the Academie designed to do what you claim it is designed to do? It has no mechanisms or levers to regulate how French is spoken beyond its cultural gravitas. It does not have some kind of review process where they can fine people like an agency actually designed to regulate would have. A very weird state of conditions if it truly was a regulatory body as you claim.

It is a little like the Oxford English Dictionary only the OED seeks to record and study English while the Academie seeks to protect and define French. But in both cases their authority is completely informal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 18, 2016, 12:47:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 18, 2016, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2016, 06:58:32 PM
Okay Oex, if you want me to believe that the institutions of your country don't actually do what they are designed to do, then who am I to argue with you?

Oex isn't French.

And how is the Academie designed to do what you claim it is designed to do? It has no mechanisms or levers to regulate how French is spoken beyond its cultural gravitas. It does not have some kind of review process where they can fine people like an agency actually designed to regulate would have. A very weird state of conditions if it truly was a regulatory body as you claim.

It is a little like the Oxford English Dictionary only the OED seeks to record and study English while the Academie seeks to protect and define French. But in both cases their authority is completely informal.

Regulating the French language is its stated purpose.  It seems like a state funded advisory board.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 23, 2016, 01:16:22 PM
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-06/8/19/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane03/sub-buzz-18856-1465429357-1.png?resize=625:547&no-auto)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 23, 2016, 01:19:43 PM
Damn men are whiny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 23, 2016, 01:20:29 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 18, 2016, 12:47:36 PM
Regulating the French language is its stated purpose.  It seems like a state funded advisory board.

It is one of those cultural institution things. Lots of countries have cultural ministries. But they are not typically regulatory bodies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 23, 2016, 03:13:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 23, 2016, 01:20:29 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 18, 2016, 12:47:36 PM
Regulating the French language is its stated purpose.  It seems like a state funded advisory board.

It is one of those cultural institution things. Lots of countries have cultural ministries. But they are not typically regulatory bodies.

This is really an odd way to spin all this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 23, 2016, 03:29:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 23, 2016, 03:13:01 PM
This is really an odd way to spin all this.

I am stating factual information. They are the guardians of this cultural institution but have nothing besides informal authority. Like the College of Arms in the UK or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on June 24, 2016, 01:15:28 PM
(https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/9d26362b-f4b1-4cf9-9e70-84b8d5a0a7cf-original.jpeg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 24, 2016, 01:24:37 PM
Where is the folly there? I mean the Vice President thing is a little misleading.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 24, 2016, 01:33:30 PM
I'm pretty sure you can fail even if you don't quit.  If I were to try out for an Olympic 100 meter dash team, I'm pretty sure I will fail regardless of when and if I quit.  Though now that I think about it, I will fail because I'm starting out with such a defeatist attitude.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 24, 2016, 01:34:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 23, 2016, 01:19:43 PM
Damn men are whiny.

qft
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on June 24, 2016, 01:45:41 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 24, 2016, 01:33:30 PM
I'm pretty sure you can fail even if you don't quit.  If I were to try out for an Olympic 100 meter dash team, I'm pretty sure I will fail regardless of when and if I quit.  Though now that I think about it, I will fail because I'm starting out with such a defeatist attitude.  :hmm:

You just need to employ a lawyer to change the rules, so as to allow rocket wheelie shoes.   :cool:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 24, 2016, 02:51:47 PM
Hitler was too legit and he lost.

Hmmm... Well, I suppose Dönitz still had a decent chance, so I guess Hitler did in fact quit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 24, 2016, 04:14:14 PM
(https://65.media.tumblr.com/c83c72029d4c44be12242fa36d497b9a/tumblr_o9a5bzfXv91uxcvxbo1_400.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 24, 2016, 06:06:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 23, 2016, 03:29:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 23, 2016, 03:13:01 PM
This is really an odd way to spin all this.

I am stating factual information. They are the guardians of this cultural institution but have nothing besides informal authority. Like the College of Arms in the UK or something.

Or the EPA science advisor board.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 24, 2016, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 24, 2016, 06:06:06 PM
Or the EPA science advisor board.

More like the um...actually I don't know if we have any of those kinds of goofy things. Even the Texas Historical Commission has regulatory powers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 28, 2016, 06:06:22 AM
Getting this thread back on track.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/racist-swimming-pool-poster-sparks-8298931

Quote'Racist' swimming pool poster sparks outrage on Twitter after 'portraying black children as not cool'


A swimming pool poster has been branded 'racist' on social media for allegedly portraying black children as 'not cool'.

The 'water safety' poster, by the American Red Cross , shows a group of youngsters engaging in various activities at a pool .

It labels them 'cool' or 'not cool' depending on whether behaviour adheres to the site's rules, including no pushing others in the water.

However, it has sparked outrage on Twitter after apparently disproportionately portraying young black swimmers as 'not cool'.

One user, John Sawyer from Washington DC, US, declared the Red Cross should replace the poster because 'the current one... is super racist'.

Another user, Matt Hickman, tweeted: "Seriously, RedCross? Behaving white kids are 'cool'; children of color depicted as misbehaving/'not cool' #racism."

And one remarked: "So nobody saw this poster and thought it looked unbalanced?"

Speaking to 9 News , Margaret Sawyer also said she was stunned by the humanitarian organisation's poster after spotting it at two different pools.

The mum, who was accompanied by her young children on at least one of the instances, said: "I thought 'It must be really outdated. This can't possibly be a recent poster'."

When she realised it was wrong, she said she 'felt really angry'.

The Red Cross has since apologised for the poster, which is titled 'Be Cool, Follow The Rules'.

In a statement , the organisation said: "The American Red Cross appreciates and is sensitive to the concerns raised regarding one of the water safety posters we produced.

"We deeply apologize for any misunderstanding, as it was absolutely not our intent to offend anyone.

"As one of the nation's oldest and largest humanitarian organizations, we are committed to diversity and inclusion in all that we do, every day.

"To this end, we have removed the poster from our website and Swim App and have discontinued production.

"We have notified all of our partner aquatic facilities requesting they take down the poster."

It added: "Our organization has emphasized to our partners and on social media that it was absolutely not our intent to offend anyone and apologized for this inadvertent action."

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.mirror.co.uk%2Fincoming%2Farticle8298885.ece%2FALTERNATES%2Fs615%2FRed-Cross-poster.jpg&hash=75d014eeaabe806c5cba2026aa836979252a3dcf)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 07:43:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 24, 2016, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 24, 2016, 06:06:06 PM
Or the EPA science advisor board.

More like the um...actually I don't know if we have any of those kinds of goofy things. Even the Texas Historical Commission has regulatory powers.

The EPA science advisor board doesn't have regulatory powers.

One question though:  If I were a schoolboy in France and had to write a paper, if I were to use spellings and grammar contrary to that of the State funded dictionary, would I be penalized?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 08:30:25 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 07:43:30 AM
One question though:  If I were a schoolboy in France and had to write a paper, if I were to use spellings and grammar contrary to that of the State funded dictionary, would I be penalized?

They put grammar in the dictionary? Weird.

No idea but generally misspelling things is frowned upon. However I also don't think every teacher has a copy of the dictionary sitting next to them when they check each paper.

QuoteThe EPA science advisor board doesn't have regulatory powers.

It is also not set up as some kind of national cultural institution.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 09:29:17 AM
C'mon now Valmy, I know you have a hard-on for the French but this is to much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 09:33:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 09:29:17 AM
C'mon now Valmy, I know you have a hard-on for the French but this is to much.

I know you have these fantasies of this fascist French gestapo state but it just is not so :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 10:13:11 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 09:33:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 09:29:17 AM
C'mon now Valmy, I know you have a hard-on for the French but this is to much.

I know you have these fantasies of this fascist French gestapo state but it just is not so :mellow:

No, I merely see a people convinced of the absolute superiority of their own culture, obsessed with imagined slights, and a distaste for pluralism.  But do go on, tell me about how the state institutions devoted to the purity of their language aren't really state institutions devoted to purity of their own language.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 10:13:11 AM
No, I merely see a people convinced of the absolute superiority of their own culture, obsessed with imagined slights, and a distaste for pluralism.

Their identity is based on their culture. That does not necessarily mean they think it is superior, at least not these days. I never got that impression once in all my time there. I don't get the imagined slights since you seem to be the one obsessed with them.

Not every country is into the multi-cultural thing. But there are almost 200 countries in the world. If you want to get along in France you have to adopt the culture and become French. But then that is what they tried to the people in their empire: make them all into Frenchmen. Which, in some ways, is more admirable than considering them all racially inferior.

QuoteBut do go on, tell me about how the state institutions devoted to the purity of their language aren't really state institutions devoted to purity of their own language.

I have explained it many many many times. It is a state institution devoted to the preservation and promotion of cultural heritage, similar institutions exist in many countries in the world. Also it is one of those weird ancient institutions that has propagated through the centuries, it is not like they would create such a thing today. Again like the College of Arms in Britain.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 10:42:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 10:13:11 AM
No, I merely see a people convinced of the absolute superiority of their own culture, obsessed with imagined slights, and a distaste for pluralism.

Their identity is based on their culture. That does not necessarily mean they think it is superior, at least not these days. I never got that impression once in all my time there. I don't get the imagined slights since you seem to be the one obsessed with them.

Not every country is into the multi-cultural thing. But there are almost 200 countries in the world. If you want to get along in France you have to adopt the culture and become French. But then that is what they tried to the people in their empire: make them all into Frenchmen. Which, in some ways, is more admirable than considering them all racially inferior.

QuoteBut do go on, tell me about how the state institutions devoted to the purity of their language aren't really state institutions devoted to purity of their own language.

I have explained it many many many times. It is a state institution devoted to the preservation and promotion of cultural heritage, similar institutions exist in many countries in the world. Also it is one of those weird ancient institutions that has propagated through the centuries, it is not like they would create such a thing today. Again like the College of Arms in Britain.

You keep pointing out the College of Arms in Britain.  Do they publish an official dictionary for Britain?  Is that Dictionary found in schools?  Does children's homework routinely rely on adherence to that dictionary?

I can't help but think you are trying to pull a fast one on me.  Sure the French Academy doesn't have the ability to coerce, they only publish a dictionary.  Of course the Dictionary informs French usage public schools which are required.  I do understand that the French don't like multiculturalism, and that's a black mark against them.  And their intolerance of other cultures within France is not limited to immigrants, but to people who have lived in France for centuries.  The French government has historically refused to even admit that other languages even exist in the country (as Zoupa so smugly pointed out), and made systematic efforts to destroy these languages.  Compare this to Canada where French is not only tolerated but given equal footing as English.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 28, 2016, 10:49:44 AM
 :bleeding: Can we put an end to this?  Raz, you're right.  Valmy, you're also right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 10:59:43 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 10:42:33 AM
You keep pointing out the College of Arms in Britain.  Do they publish an official dictionary for Britain?  Is that Dictionary found in schools?  Does children's homework routinely rely on adherence to that dictionary?

I could point out dozens of similar institutions around the world for the preservation of culture. There are many classes in many schools that require you to learn and conform to certain cultural practices.

But I am not aware of the particular spelling and dictionary atrocity and outrage you are referring to. Granted trying to learn how to spell things in French is generally an atrocity.

QuoteI can't help but think you are trying to pull a fast one on me.

I think you are such a hateful bigot that you hold the French to an absurdly high standard. If they do not meet that unreasonable standard they are inferior in your eyes. Which is fucking idiotic considering what a fucked up place Missouri is.

QuoteSure the French Academy doesn't have the ability to coerce, they only publish a dictionary.  Of course the Dictionary informs French usage public schools which are required.

Ok and we have a curriculum board in Texas which regulates how every fucking thing is taught. Including English. Hey Missouri does as well. So government agencies should not inform what is taught in public schools? What should do so then? I mean setting up a curriculum is not the same as forcing everybody in your country to hold those views. And further more I am not even sure the extent the dictionary informs schooling.

QuoteI do understand that the French don't like multiculturalism, and that's a black mark against them.

Many people don't like multi-culturalism. Because it tends to destroy cultures and make everything rather generic. That is cool over here, we destroy and eat cultures for breakfast, but over in the old world they based their entire nation states around it.

QuoteAnd their intolerance of other cultures within France is not limited to immigrants, but to people who have lived in France for centuries.  The French government has historically refused to even admit that other languages even exist in the country (as Zoupa so smugly pointed out), and made systematic efforts to destroy these languages.  Compare this to Canada where French is not only tolerated but given equal footing as English.

Well they didn't think of it that way. But you cannot bring up 19th century practices and then pretend that Canada has always embraced French. Also comparing old world and new world countries is inherently dishonest in things like this. They are based on totally different things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 11:01:21 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 28, 2016, 10:49:44 AM
:bleeding: Can we put an end to this?  Raz, you're right.  Valmy, you're also right.

Are we compelling you to read this thread or something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 28, 2016, 11:12:42 AM
I am not sure I understand what you are arguing anymore, Valmy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 11:17:31 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 28, 2016, 11:12:42 AM
I am not sure I understand what you are arguing anymore, Valmy.

That France is not a dystopia just because it is slightly different than Missouri? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 11:31:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 10:59:43 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 10:42:33 AM
You keep pointing out the College of Arms in Britain.  Do they publish an official dictionary for Britain?  Is that Dictionary found in schools?  Does children's homework routinely rely on adherence to that dictionary?

I could point out dozens of similar institutions around the world for the preservation of culture. There are many classes in many schools that require you to learn and conform to certain cultural practices.

But I am not aware of the particular spelling and dictionary atrocity and outrage you are referring to. Granted trying to learn how to spell things in French is generally an atrocity.

QuoteI can't help but think you are trying to pull a fast one on me.

I think you are such a hateful bigot that you hold the French to an absurdly high standard. If they do not meet that unreasonable standard they are inferior in your eyes. Which is fucking idiotic considering what a fucked up place Missouri is.

QuoteSure the French Academy doesn't have the ability to coerce, they only publish a dictionary.  Of course the Dictionary informs French usage public schools which are required.

Ok and we have a curriculum board in Texas which regulates how every fucking thing is taught. Including English. Hey Missouri does as well. So government agencies should not inform what is taught in public schools? What should do so then? I mean setting up a curriculum is not the same as forcing everybody in your country to hold those views. And further more I am not even sure the extent the dictionary informs schooling.

QuoteI do understand that the French don't like multiculturalism, and that's a black mark against them.

Many people don't like multi-culturalism. Because it tends to destroy cultures and make everything rather generic. That is cool over here, we destroy and eat cultures for breakfast, but over in the old world they based their entire nation states around it.

QuoteAnd their intolerance of other cultures within France is not limited to immigrants, but to people who have lived in France for centuries.  The French government has historically refused to even admit that other languages even exist in the country (as Zoupa so smugly pointed out), and made systematic efforts to destroy these languages.  Compare this to Canada where French is not only tolerated but given equal footing as English.

Well they didn't think of it that way. But you cannot bring up 19th century practices and then pretend that Canada has always embraced French. Also comparing old world and new world countries is inherently dishonest in things like this. They are based on totally different things.

I hold the French to the same standards as the US, Britain, Canada and Germany.  I think that's fair.  Should I hold them to the standards of China or Saudi Arabia?  Is that more appropriate?  Yes, I believe in multiculturalism, and any country that can tolerate its own citizens has a serious problem.  I have problems with any country devoted to the "purity" of race, religion or language. I have taken issue with the characterization that French Academy really is a meaningless organization that doesn't try to regulate and "purify" the French language, because clearly it is not.  At one time there were millions of Occitan speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the French government, don't you?  And please, do go on about Missouri, tell me every detail of why it is so bad.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 11:49:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 11:31:45 AM

I hold the French to the same standards as the US, Britain, Canada and Germany.

Britain and Germany yes. The US no.

QuoteI think that's fair.  Should I hold them to the standards of China or Saudi Arabia?  Is that more appropriate?

China, maybe. They have kind of the same thing going on. Not sure about Saudi Arabia.

QuoteYes, I believe in multiculturalism, and any country that can tolerate its own citizens has a serious problem.

I think France does pretty well tolerating its own citizens. Especially regarding things like race that we struggle with.

QuoteI have problems with any country devoted to the "purity" of race, religion or language.

France is not devoted to any of those things.

QuoteI have taken issue with the characterization that French Academy really is a meaningless organization that doesn't try to regulate and "purify" the French language, because clearly it is not.

I disagree. It is an ancient ceremonial cultural artifact. No more. And many countries have 'ministries of culture' and the like.

QuoteAt one time there were millions of Occitan speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the French government, don't you?

At one time there were many regional speakers of many languages. Those are decreased now. The French, at the time, saw it as a regional dialect and were always trying to standardize but not to preserve the purity of anything. In any case now all the signs in Provence are printed in both French and Provencal. Just like today black Missourians are not property so long as we are pretending things that happened in the 19th century are still going on today.

Tuscan is now Italian. And frankly in the modern world it is just daft to have thousands of different languages. And in Europe those tend to lead to nationalism and war. I don't have any particular problem with national lingua francas being taught and encouraged. Hell it is one of the reasons in France everybody gets 12 years of English. Not that it seems to benefit them much :P

Which I have to admit so much public money for English learning kind of flies in the face of your claims of intolerance for other languages or a public policy of language purification :hmm:

QuoteAnd please, do go on about Missouri, tell me every detail of why it is so bad.

As soon as you give me some details and not vague bullshit backing up what you say, sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 28, 2016, 12:05:38 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 11:31:45 AM
At one time there were millions of Occitan speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the French government, don't you? 
At one time, there were thousands of Sioux speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the US government, don't you?
At one time, there were thousands of French speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the US government, don't you?
At one time, there were thousands of Cherokee speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the US government, don't you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 28, 2016, 12:06:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 11:01:21 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 28, 2016, 10:49:44 AM
:bleeding: Can we put an end to this?  Raz, you're right.  Valmy, you're also right.

Are we compelling you to read this thread or something?

Your hijack is dull in a thread that is mostly amusing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 28, 2016, 12:06:08 PM
Your hijack is dull in a thread that is mostly amusing.

Mine? Plenty of other people have participated in this discussion. And Raz started it by randomly attacking French in a stupid way out of nowhere for no reason at all.

Besides my role here is not to entertain you :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 28, 2016, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 28, 2016, 12:06:08 PM
Your hijack is dull in a thread that is mostly amusing.

Mine? Plenty of other people have participated in this discussion. And Raz started it by randomly attacking French in a stupid way out of nowhere for no reason at all.

Besides my role here is not to entertain you :P

Well it should be. :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 01:12:05 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 28, 2016, 12:05:38 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 11:31:45 AM
At one time there were millions of Occitan speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the French government, don't you? 
At one time, there were thousands of Sioux speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the US government, don't you?
At one time, there were thousands of French speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the US government, don't you?
At one time, there were thousands of Cherokee speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the US government, don't you?

This is true.  There were not, however hundreds of thousands of Sioux speakers, and there was not millions of French speakers.  The treatment of native Americans is very much a crime.  The French speakers simply vanished due to increased immigration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 11:49:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 11:31:45 AM

I hold the French to the same standards as the US, Britain, Canada and Germany.

Britain and Germany yes. The US no.

QuoteI think that's fair.  Should I hold them to the standards of China or Saudi Arabia?  Is that more appropriate?

China, maybe. They have kind of the same thing going on. Not sure about Saudi Arabia.

QuoteYes, I believe in multiculturalism, and any country that can tolerate its own citizens has a serious problem.

I think France does pretty well tolerating its own citizens. Especially regarding things like race that we struggle with.

QuoteI have problems with any country devoted to the "purity" of race, religion or language.

France is not devoted to any of those things.

QuoteI have taken issue with the characterization that French Academy really is a meaningless organization that doesn't try to regulate and "purify" the French language, because clearly it is not.

I disagree. It is an ancient ceremonial cultural artifact. No more. And many countries have 'ministries of culture' and the like.

QuoteAt one time there were millions of Occitan speakers, now there aren't.  I rather think that has something to do with the French government, don't you?

At one time there were many regional speakers of many languages. Those are decreased now. The French, at the time, saw it as a regional dialect and were always trying to standardize but not to preserve the purity of anything. In any case now all the signs in Provence are printed in both French and Provencal. Just like today black Missourians are not property so long as we are pretending things that happened in the 19th century are still going on today.

Tuscan is now Italian. And frankly in the modern world it is just daft to have thousands of different languages. And in Europe those tend to lead to nationalism and war. I don't have any particular problem with national lingua francas being taught and encouraged. Hell it is one of the reasons in France everybody gets 12 years of English. Not that it seems to benefit them much :P

Which I have to admit so much public money for English learning kind of flies in the face of your claims of intolerance for other languages or a public policy of language purification :hmm:

QuoteAnd please, do go on about Missouri, tell me every detail of why it is so bad.

As soon as you give me some details and not vague bullshit backing up what you say, sure.

Your position that the French Academy is just some peculiar oddity is simply absurd. Comparing it to a college of Heraldry is silly.  Few people use Heraldy, everyone uses a dictionary. It is a state institution charged with the purity of the language.  It produces the reference books for language that are used to educate the population.  If it was merely a cultural artifact it wouldn't be producing the official dictionary.  If it was in fact so obsolete it would have disappeared after two empires, three monarchies, five republics and a fascist state.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 02:00:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 28, 2016, 12:06:08 PM
Your hijack is dull in a thread that is mostly amusing.

Mine? Plenty of other people have participated in this discussion. And Raz started it by randomly attacking French in a stupid way out of nowhere for no reason at all.

Besides my role here is not to entertain you :P

Saying France regulates its language is not an insult.  It's the stated mission of a part of it's government!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 28, 2016, 02:03:05 PM
I think it's safe to say that by now we're dealing with a folly of the non-Facebook kind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 28, 2016, 03:26:32 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 02:00:16 PM
Saying France regulates its language is not an insult. 
No, it's just an non truth.

The Académie does not depend on the government, and the government does not have to listen to it, nor do any citizen of France has to conform to it.

But just like English, there are vocabulary and grammar schools taught in schools.  You get bad grades if you don't write proper French in schools.  I'm guessing you have the same process in English speaking countries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 03:45:41 PM
It was originally delivered as an insult waaaaaaaay back like five pages ago.

QuoteI think it's safe to say that by now we're dealing with a folly of the non-Facebook kind.

A much more traditionally languish type of folly  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 28, 2016, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 01:12:05 PM
This is true.  There were not, however hundreds of thousands of Sioux speakers, and there was not millions of French speakers.  The treatment of native Americans is very much a crime.  The French speakers simply vanished due to increased immigration.
There was roughly 2.5 million Americans, white and mostly protestants, English speaking people at the time of your independance.  You have to keep proportions in sight.  Also, indians did not have census of their own, so we need to keep things in proportion.  The American government pursued of policy of extermination and assimilation of indians, that is a fact.  French speakers were also forced assimilated in areas they were settled.  Not that many French speakers in Detroit today, or neither in Lowell, MA.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on June 28, 2016, 08:44:52 PM
I don't understand Raz's point, apart from the usual "I hate France and let's mock them'.

Every modern language has dictionaries  :huh:  L'Académie Francaise publishes a dictionary. Nobody cares much.

You'd be hard pressed to find it in any french home. We usually prefer Larousse or Le Robert.

The main use of the dictionary in France is to see if you can actually play that word in Scrabble. It's not a tool of the fascist state dude.

Chill.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 28, 2016, 08:48:17 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 28, 2016, 08:44:52 PM
The main use of the dictionary in France is to see if you can actually play that word in Scrabble. It's not a tool of the fascist state dude.
He was wondering in another thread if he soon could be a politician.  Impervious to facts as he is, I guess he's ready.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 28, 2016, 09:51:44 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 28, 2016, 08:44:52 PM
I don't understand Raz's point, apart from the usual "I hate France and let's mock them'.

Every modern language has dictionaries  :huh:  L'Académie Francaise publishes a dictionary. Nobody cares much.

You'd be hard pressed to find it in any french home. We usually prefer Larousse or Le Robert.

The main use of the dictionary in France is to see if you can actually play that word in Scrabble. It's not a tool of the fascist state dude.

Chill.

France has passed laws (Quebec has, as well, I believe) regulating the use of language in signs and advertising (though I don't remember all the details).  Raz may be confusing such actual government action with the work of the Academy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 11:15:25 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 28, 2016, 09:51:44 PM
France has passed laws (Quebec has, as well, I believe) regulating the use of language in signs and advertising (though I don't remember all the details).  Raz may be confusing such actual government action with the work of the Academy.

What sort of laws? Is this bar in Paris going to shut down? Will they be shocked SHOCKED to see English being printed here?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barsparis.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Fbar-american-dream-paris-facade-nuit2.jpg&hash=f7f167a1a99fad2de48e65da10c61f90303f8708)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 28, 2016, 11:17:33 PM
What is that abomination, Las Vegas petit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 11:18:27 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 28, 2016, 11:17:33 PM
What is that abomination, Las Vegas petit?

They have tacky American bars all over Euroland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 28, 2016, 11:22:59 PM
Christ, no wonder they consider us a vapid empty culture.  Only thing worse than an unimaginative franchise bar restaurant is a shitty fucking replica of an unimaginative franchise bar restaurant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 28, 2016, 11:23:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2016, 11:15:25 PM

What sort of laws?

Google is your friend.

QuoteIs this bar in Paris going to shut down?

Some day, yes it will.  No business lasts forever.

QuoteWill they be shocked SHOCKED to see English being printed here?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barsparis.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Fbar-american-dream-paris-facade-nuit2.jpg&hash=f7f167a1a99fad2de48e65da10c61f90303f8708)

No, because they don't shock.  They are robots.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 29, 2016, 12:35:53 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 28, 2016, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 01:12:05 PM
This is true.  There were not, however hundreds of thousands of Sioux speakers, and there was not millions of French speakers.  The treatment of native Americans is very much a crime.  The French speakers simply vanished due to increased immigration.
There was roughly 2.5 million Americans, white and mostly protestants, English speaking people at the time of your independance.  You have to keep proportions in sight.  Also, indians did not have census of their own, so we need to keep things in proportion.  The American government pursued of policy of extermination and assimilation of indians, that is a fact.  French speakers were also forced assimilated in areas they were settled.  Not that many French speakers in Detroit today, or neither in Lowell, MA.

It's true that these Indians didn't have a census, because they lived in a stone age culture.  The largest movement of Indians was the trail of tears, which saw the forced migration of 16,000 Indians ( of various tribes) over a period of two decades.  At the time were between 15 million and 23 million people living in the US.  The part of about the French being forced to assimilate you just made up.  Missouri had French speakers, but they number never numbered more then a few thousand (of course they weren't speaking real French but a Patois, and their language would have been forcibly eliminated by the French government.  When the US purchased the Louisiana territory it was thought to have seven million inhabitants, maybe 10,000 of them were French.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 29, 2016, 05:29:55 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 28, 2016, 09:51:44 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 28, 2016, 08:44:52 PM
I don't understand Raz's point, apart from the usual "I hate France and let's mock them'.

Every modern language has dictionaries  :huh:  L'Académie Francaise publishes a dictionary. Nobody cares much.

You'd be hard pressed to find it in any french home. We usually prefer Larousse or Le Robert.

The main use of the dictionary in France is to see if you can actually play that word in Scrabble. It's not a tool of the fascist state dude.

Chill.

France has passed laws (Quebec has, as well, I believe) regulating the use of language in signs and advertising (though I don't remember all the details).  Raz may be confusing such actual government action with the work of the Academy.

Not to mention sometimes the government disagrees the Académie in language matters, last time for PC reasons e.g "feminisation".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2016, 08:32:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 28, 2016, 11:23:47 PM
Google is your friend.

Yeah ok. Bring up some bullshit and then demand I do your research for you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 29, 2016, 08:45:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2016, 08:32:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 28, 2016, 11:23:47 PM
Google is your friend.

Yeah ok. Bring up some bullshit and then demand I do your research for you.

He didn't bring up any bullshit / we've already discussed at length signage laws in Quebec.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2016, 08:55:20 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 29, 2016, 08:45:18 AM
He didn't bring up any bullshit / we've already discussed at length signage laws in Quebec.

Oh so I should bring up Australian laws when discussing how things work in Scotland? Because we were talking about France.

Sounds like bullshit to me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 29, 2016, 09:29:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2016, 08:32:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 28, 2016, 11:23:47 PM
Google is your friend.

Yeah ok. Bring up some bullshit and then demand I do your research for you.

I don't demand anything. Research or remain ignorant; it is all the same to me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 29, 2016, 05:06:00 PM
Oh Christ, Someone was going on about how Welfare equals socialism, I pointed out that the Roman empire had welfare and it wasn't socialist.  Then some one says they were in fact a socialist country.  Because "Central bank + Rule by Law + Democracy = Socialism"  It's difficult to fail to describe the Roman empire so thoroughly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on June 29, 2016, 07:08:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 28, 2016, 09:51:44 PM
France has passed laws (Quebec has, as well, I believe) regulating the use of language in signs and advertising (though I don't remember all the details).  Raz may be confusing such actual government action with the work of the Academy.

The Toubon Law on advertisement:

"Another broad provision of the law is that it makes it mandatory for commercial advertisements and public announcements to be given in French. This does not rule out advertisements made in a foreign language: it is sufficient to provide a translation in a footnote.  This was justified as a measure for the protection of the consumer. Additionally, product packaging must be in French, though, again, translation in multiple languages can be provided."

I'm so ashamed of my fascist country.  :cry:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 29, 2016, 07:51:15 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 29, 2016, 07:08:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 28, 2016, 09:51:44 PM
France has passed laws (Quebec has, as well, I believe) regulating the use of language in signs and advertising (though I don't remember all the details).  Raz may be confusing such actual government action with the work of the Academy.

The Toubon Law on advertisement:

"Another broad provision of the law is that it makes it mandatory for commercial advertisements and public announcements to be given in French. This does not rule out advertisements made in a foreign language: it is sufficient to provide a translation in a footnote.  This was justified as a measure for the protection of the consumer. Additionally, product packaging must be in French, though, again, translation in multiple languages can be provided."

I'm so ashamed of my fascist country.  :cry:

Toubon Law, that's it.  Doesn't seem very fascist to me, but you may have a different definition of tolerance than I do.  :console:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 30, 2016, 10:10:17 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2016, 12:35:53 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 28, 2016, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 01:12:05 PM
This is true.  There were not, however hundreds of thousands of Sioux speakers, and there was not millions of French speakers.  The treatment of native Americans is very much a crime.  The French speakers simply vanished due to increased immigration.
There was roughly 2.5 million Americans, white and mostly protestants, English speaking people at the time of your independance.  You have to keep proportions in sight.  Also, indians did not have census of their own, so we need to keep things in proportion.  The American government pursued of policy of extermination and assimilation of indians, that is a fact.  French speakers were also forced assimilated in areas they were settled.  Not that many French speakers in Detroit today, or neither in Lowell, MA.

It's true that these Indians didn't have a census, because they lived in a stone age culture.  The largest movement of Indians was the trail of tears, which saw the forced migration of 16,000 Indians ( of various tribes) over a period of two decades.
16 000, that's only the lastest forced migration of Cherokees.  Out of that 16 000 Cherokees, at least 12% died.
Before 1837, 46 000 Indians had been forced removed from their shrunk traditional lands.  The latest migration was the Cherokees in 1838.  That's at least 46 000 people, already decimated by wars, famine and disease since the arrival of the first colonists.  Which explains their low numbers. 

This is from just one event over a very short period of time, about a decade for most of the events.

The total number of Indians in the US, following estimates was between 2 and 18 million souls at the time of the colonization of the US.

Quote
  At the time were between 15 million and 23 million people living in the US.
17 million, including 2.5 million slaves.

Quote
  The part of about the French being forced to assimilate you just made up.  Missouri had French speakers, but they number never numbered more then a few thousand  When the US purchased the Louisiana territory it was thought to have seven million inhabitants, maybe 10,000 of them were French.
How many French speakers today in the US, people who use French as their primary language in everday lives?
You do know that many Acadians were deported to the US in 1755, right?  Roughly 7000 people deported in US colonies.  Not one of them was allowed to keep their language there.
Today's Cajuns are descendants of the Acadians deported to France.  They were not allowed to keep their language once Lousiana was integrated to the US, not until very recently where they could have schools to teach the language.

Quote(of course they weren't speaking real French but a Patois, and their language would have been forcibly eliminated by the French government.
"Real" French, just like English, has evolved over the years.  The English spoken in Missouri in the 18-19th century would have been different than today's English, and if anyone spoke 19th century English, we'd likely call it a Patois today.  So that argument is silly.
Unless you want to make the claim the US government brutally eliminated local dialect in an horrible crime against humanity, just like France?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:12:33 AM
I love how he slips in little Libertarianisms about how any government regulation is suddenly an act of force.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 30, 2016, 10:13:14 AM
viper, why do you think the french were forced to assimilate rather than they naturally assimilated?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:15:09 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 30, 2016, 10:13:14 AM
viper, why do you think the french were forced to assimilate rather than they naturally assimilated?

Louisiana was overwhelmed by Southern Immigrants who then passed laws reducing French and shit. But again the intention was to help ease communication and establish a Lingua Franca, not forcibly commit atrocities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on June 30, 2016, 10:16:25 AM
meant those comments about michigan, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 30, 2016, 10:19:42 AM
I don't think there is any real difference between some group of people's use of French declining over time and say, the Holocaust.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:20:11 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 30, 2016, 10:16:25 AM
meant those comments about michigan, etc.

I am not well informed about those states but I imagine similar dynamics occurred.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 30, 2016, 10:19:42 AM
I don't think there is any real difference between some group of people's use of French declining over time and say, the Holocaust.

But what about some group of people's use of French increasing over time?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 30, 2016, 10:22:22 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 30, 2016, 10:19:42 AM
I don't think there is any real difference between some group of people's use of French declining over time and say, the Holocaust.

But what about some group of people's use of French increasing over time?

War crime, obviously.

I cannot even imagine what kind of abuse of power it would take for something like that to happen. Not even sure it is possible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 30, 2016, 10:22:22 AM
I cannot even imagine what kind of abuse of power it would take for something like that to happen. Not even sure it is possible.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 11:33:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:12:33 AM
I love how he slips in little Libertarianisms about how any government regulation is suddenly an act of force.

Of course government regulations is an act of force.  What else would it be?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 30, 2016, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 11:33:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:12:33 AM
I love how he slips in little Libertarianisms about how any government regulation is suddenly an act of force.

Of course government regulations is an act of force.  What else would it be?

Yeah. Don't make Michael Ironside come out there!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 11:43:43 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 30, 2016, 10:10:17 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2016, 12:35:53 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 28, 2016, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2016, 01:12:05 PM
This is true.  There were not, however hundreds of thousands of Sioux speakers, and there was not millions of French speakers.  The treatment of native Americans is very much a crime.  The French speakers simply vanished due to increased immigration.
There was roughly 2.5 million Americans, white and mostly protestants, English speaking people at the time of your independance.  You have to keep proportions in sight.  Also, indians did not have census of their own, so we need to keep things in proportion.  The American government pursued of policy of extermination and assimilation of indians, that is a fact.  French speakers were also forced assimilated in areas they were settled.  Not that many French speakers in Detroit today, or neither in Lowell, MA.

It's true that these Indians didn't have a census, because they lived in a stone age culture.  The largest movement of Indians was the trail of tears, which saw the forced migration of 16,000 Indians ( of various tribes) over a period of two decades.
16 000, that's only the lastest forced migration of Cherokees.  Out of that 16 000 Cherokees, at least 12% died.
Before 1837, 46 000 Indians had been forced removed from their shrunk traditional lands.  The latest migration was the Cherokees in 1838.  That's at least 46 000 people, already decimated by wars, famine and disease since the arrival of the first colonists.  Which explains their low numbers. 

This is from just one event over a very short period of time, about a decade for most of the events.

The total number of Indians in the US, following estimates was between 2 and 18 million souls at the time of the colonization of the US.

Quote
  At the time were between 15 million and 23 million people living in the US.
17 million, including 2.5 million slaves.

Quote
  The part of about the French being forced to assimilate you just made up.  Missouri had French speakers, but they number never numbered more then a few thousand  When the US purchased the Louisiana territory it was thought to have seven million inhabitants, maybe 10,000 of them were French.
How many French speakers today in the US, people who use French as their primary language in everday lives?
You do know that many Acadians were deported to the US in 1755, right?  Roughly 7000 people deported in US colonies.  Not one of them was allowed to keep their language there.
Today's Cajuns are descendants of the Acadians deported to France.  They were not allowed to keep their language once Lousiana was integrated to the US, not until very recently where they could have schools to teach the language.

Quote(of course they weren't speaking real French but a Patois, and their language would have been forcibly eliminated by the French government.
"Real" French, just like English, has evolved over the years.  The English spoken in Missouri in the 18-19th century would have been different than today's English, and if anyone spoke 19th century English, we'd likely call it a Patois today.  So that argument is silly.
Unless you want to make the claim the US government brutally eliminated local dialect in an horrible crime against humanity, just like France?

You are mixing up numbers.  I refered to the trail of tears, the 48,000 Indians deported occurred in the decades prior.  Pretty much since the US was founded.  No French Accadian were deported to the US in 1755.  I can be absolutely certain of that.  Where they deported to and who did not allow them to speak their language I have no idea, but it was not the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 02:22:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 11:33:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:12:33 AM
I love how he slips in little Libertarianisms about how any government regulation is suddenly an act of force.

Of course government regulations is an act of force.  What else would it be?

Come and see the violence that is inherent in the system!

Well forcibly makes it sound like they are roughing up transgressors or something. So long as you consistently always use 'forcibly' as a way to say 'there are regulations' then sure but it makes you sound like a crazy nut.

The state of Texas forcibly makes me get a drivers license. It also forcibly keep me from driving on the side walk. OH THE VIOLENCE
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 11:43:43 AM
You are mixing up numbers.  I refered to the trail of tears, the 48,000 Indians deported occurred in the decades prior.  Pretty much since the US was founded.  No French Accadian were deported to the US in 1755.  I can be absolutely certain of that.  Where they deported to and who did not allow them to speak their language I have no idea, but it was not the US.

Well since you generally do this thing where you lump together all French speakers together you can excuse him if he does the same back to you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 30, 2016, 03:53:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 11:43:43 AM
You are mixing up numbers.  I refered to the trail of tears, the 48,000 Indians deported occurred in the decades prior.  Pretty much since the US was founded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears)

Quote
  No French Accadian were deported to the US in 1755.  I can be absolutely certain of that.  Where they deported to and who did not allow them to speak their language I have no idea, but it was not the US.
British colonies.  That's the same physical location.
Benjamin Franklin certainly did not want the inferior French to live in America.  In fact, he argued that they should all be deported from the continent, and constantly pushed to limit the rights of French speakers and Catholic practitionners, like other colonists.
The Americans had the Quebec Act part of the grievances, an act which allowed French speakers to keep their language and religion.  That was an intolerable act...

Do you think the US was founded on racist principles?


Again, I am merely applying the same glasses you look at France with.  If it was terrible for France, it must have been the same for the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 03:56:57 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 30, 2016, 03:53:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 11:43:43 AM
You are mixing up numbers.  I refered to the trail of tears, the 48,000 Indians deported occurred in the decades prior.  Pretty much since the US was founded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears)

Quote
  No French Accadian were deported to the US in 1755.  I can be absolutely certain of that.  Where they deported to and who did not allow them to speak their language I have no idea, but it was not the US.
British colonies.  That's the same physical location.

So was the Buzzard cult.  Do you have some issue with the Mississippian cultures that we should know about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 02:22:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 11:33:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2016, 10:12:33 AM
I love how he slips in little Libertarianisms about how any government regulation is suddenly an act of force.

Of course government regulations is an act of force.  What else would it be?

Come and see the violence that is inherent in the system!

Well forcibly makes it sound like they are roughing up transgressors or something. So long as you consistently always use 'forcibly' as a way to say 'there are regulations' then sure but it makes you sound like a crazy nut.

The state of Texas forcibly makes me get a drivers license. It also forcibly keep me from driving on the side walk. OH THE VIOLENCE

I am a crazy nut. :mellow:  I'm just a crazy nut who payed attention in political science class.  Government is violence.  Nothing wrong with that.  It coerces the population with threats of fines, imprisonment, and even death.  It's an orderly and predictable violence that I have some say in.  The alternative is the unpredictable violence of private individuals that I don't have any say in.  I'd much rather see a policeman walking down the street than a crazed gunman.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 30, 2016, 04:54:22 PM
What an endless wall of shit. And before you start, V, no I haven't been reading it. :blurgh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 30, 2016, 04:55:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 04:02:24 PM
I'd much rather see a policeman walking down the street than a crazed gunman.

You stay in the US why exactly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on July 01, 2016, 02:22:38 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 28, 2016, 05:22:42 PM
There was roughly 2.5 million Americans, white and mostly protestants, English speaking people at the time of your independance.  You have to keep proportions in sight.  Also, indians did not have census of their own, so we need to keep things in proportion.  The American government pursued of policy of extermination and assimilation of indians, that is a fact.  French speakers were also forced assimilated in areas they were settled.  Not that many French speakers in Detroit today, or neither in Lowell, MA.

There was a French speaking community in Detroit until the first decades of the twentieth century.  As I've mentioned before, my great-grandfather spoke French as a first language, even though his family had lived in the United States since Detroit had become American territory.  That community, like almost everything else in old Detroit, was swept away with the boom of the automotive industry.  The population of the city wasn't even 300,000 in 1900, by 1920 it was almost a million and by 1930 it was 1.5 million.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 01, 2016, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 30, 2016, 04:55:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2016, 04:02:24 PM
I'd much rather see a policeman walking down the street than a crazed gunman.

You stay in the US why exactly?

We did our own Brexit a while ago and he's stuck here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on July 03, 2016, 05:59:41 AM
All of a sudden Facebook is suggesting me a bunch of white supremacist/pro-Trump pages  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on July 03, 2016, 07:15:02 AM
Quote from: celedhring on July 03, 2016, 05:59:41 AM
All of a sudden Facebook is suggesting me a bunch of white supremacist/pro-Trump pages  :huh:

Shouldn't have friended some of your fellow Languishites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 04, 2016, 09:26:59 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 06, 2016, 10:46:21 AM
My favorite example of rural gentrification was a restaurant in Oro-Mentone Township. It was called "The Settlers Ghost" and it was located right nest to a big new golf course and skiing area. It served high-end international type food - all proudly "locally sourced" and "organic". The fun part was the menu and decor, which featured a long description of how the restaurant was intended to "honor the settler families whose passing allowed the creation of this fine restaurant, chalet and golf course" (hence "Settlers Ghost"). The décor was all ye olde time-y farm stuff.

Thing is, this is still a partly rural area, lost of farmers (from settler's families) still live there, and farm. They are being pushed out by tourist facilities of course, but they aren't gone yet. However, they would be very unlikely to eat at a restaurant like this - and I wonder what they would make of being "honored" in that manner!  :lol:

I just had a somewhat similar experience. Maybe a year ago, a barbecue restaurant opened near to me. I'm something of a major barbecue fan (and used to manage a barbecue restaurant), but around here there is a barbecue restaurant on every corner, and this place had prices that were a bit higher than normal and seemed super trendy. It has no buzz and the place is always empty. I never went in.

Today I was going by and saw they had a reasonably priced lunch special, so I gave it a shot. It was something of a culture shock. I've never been to a barbecue place with decor that was so refined, the staff was a kind of preppy hipster (no emphasis on southerness or ruralness, which is rather unique for barbecue places). But the food was actually outstanding--probably the best barbecue in a few mile radius. Still the place was mostly empty.

Some people say that really good barbecue needs to be made by black people (mainly because historically barbecue was prepared by black people and supposedly that is where the authentic heritage resides) or at least people from the country. Which I think is bullshit: good ingredients, good recipes, and proper care when cooking are what is needed (and often lacking)--the identity of the cooks is irrelevant. Still, maybe in the heart of atlanta a restaurant like this would do okay, but this is far enough out of the center of the city that a trendy restaurant featuring barbecue and slightly higher than normal prices isn't going to work. People aren't going to give it a shot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2016, 09:55:04 PM
Quote from: celedhring on July 03, 2016, 05:59:41 AM
All of a sudden Facebook is suggesting me a bunch of white supremacist/pro-Trump pages  :huh:

Weird how those come together like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 05, 2016, 06:23:25 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13600314_10208662823401369_6814445408133630538_n.jpg?oh=7df6ae55103aa1e55fccf59018d5425f&oe=57F74206)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on July 05, 2016, 11:09:45 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 24, 2016, 01:33:30 PM
I'm pretty sure you can fail even if you don't quit.  If I were to try out for an Olympic 100 meter dash team, I'm pretty sure I will fail regardless of when and if I quit.  Though now that I think about it, I will fail because I'm starting out with such a defeatist attitude.  :hmm:
Quitters never win and winners never quit. But people who never win and never quit are morons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2016, 07:47:30 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13590287_561669394005787_4617914756147688505_n.jpg?oh=8c85fa5bca9fa620dac4877ec689ead3&oe=57FAAE02)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 06, 2016, 08:55:16 AM
That's clever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on July 06, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
(https://s31.postimg.org/vaoa3cofv/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 06, 2016, 07:51:26 PM
wtf is that??
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on July 06, 2016, 07:54:56 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 06, 2016, 07:51:26 PM
wtf is that??

Your PM being manly.

It came from a Canuck with a Trumpenreich hardon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2016, 07:55:13 PM
Training to beat the crap out of NDP members.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 07, 2016, 07:52:02 AM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13599802_263001164075745_4965118097160214866_n.jpg?oh=151ceb4cb810a8bbd6396019b9126542&oe=57EAD899)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on July 07, 2016, 08:11:51 AM
Does it really need a comma after 'country'? I always find English commas confusing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 07, 2016, 08:18:27 AM
A comma there makes no sense as sentence is describing him as an FBI Director AND a Traitor (to the country and his oath). I think with a comma there (if one were to use the oxford comma) it would be suggesting that Comey is his oath.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on July 11, 2016, 11:05:38 AM
(https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13592666_10209126660191169_8662333408894609768_n.jpg?oh=8068a60847ae3aae65b72a0d089b4d43&oe=57EED28F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 11, 2016, 11:07:43 AM
Oh FFS. What lights was he supposed to light his house up in reaction to that? The colors of the Dallas Cowboys?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 11, 2016, 11:09:46 AM
Were they supposed to light it up in blue? Probably would have looked a bit ridiculous. (like if it went rainbow for Orlando)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 11, 2016, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Liep on July 07, 2016, 08:11:51 AM
Does it really need a comma after 'country'? I always find English commas confusing.

Yes, I suppose incorrect punctuation could be confusing
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 11, 2016, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2016, 11:07:43 AM
Oh FFS. What lights was he supposed to light his house up in reaction to that? The colors of the Dallas Cowboys?

I guess the thousands of flags at half mast at federal buildings across the country couldn't fit in the picture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
How about just stop the silly WH light thing altogether.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 11, 2016, 11:39:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
How about just stop the silly WH light thing altogether.

Obviously once you light it up for something then you have to light it up for everything.

'Holy shit why didn't the President light the White House green for Arbor Day? THE PRESIDENT HATES TREES'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 11, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
How about just stop the silly WH light thing altogether.

How about people worry about real problems?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on July 11, 2016, 01:25:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2016, 11:07:43 AM
Oh FFS. What lights was he supposed to light his house up in reaction to that? The colors of the Dallas Cowboys?

(https://s32.postimg.org/59m4vpz6d/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 11, 2016, 01:27:21 PM
LOL.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 01:53:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 11, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
How about just stop the silly WH light thing altogether.

How about people worry about real problems?

Okay.  You first :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 11, 2016, 02:09:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
How about just stop the silly WH light thing altogether.

Yes, they should bathe it in white light all the time, just like they used to, back in the the good ol' nigger-free days! :yeah:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 11, 2016, 02:25:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 01:53:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 11, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
How about just stop the silly WH light thing altogether.

How about people worry about real problems?

Okay.  You first :P

What trivial problems am I worrying about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 11, 2016, 02:39:06 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
How about just stop the silly WH light thing altogether.

You do that, and it's back to "OMG war on Christmas".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 11, 2016, 02:41:50 PM
The point is is that any innocuous thing done or not done by Obama is going to be presented as something to be outraged over.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 11, 2016, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2016, 02:41:50 PM
The point is is that any innocuous thing done or not done by Obama is going to be presented as something to be outraged over.

It is because he is so intent on dividing us and destroying America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 11, 2016, 02:45:32 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 11, 2016, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2016, 02:41:50 PM
The point is is that any innocuous thing done or not done by Obama is going to be presented as something to be outraged over.

It is because he is so intent on dividing us and destroying America.

He is making us more racist. If we only elected non-Obama racial peace and harmony would break out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 02:50:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 11, 2016, 02:25:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 01:53:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 11, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
How about just stop the silly WH light thing altogether.

How about people worry about real problems?

Okay.  You first :P

What trivial problems am I worrying about?

The White House light thing, or at least the criticism of it.  Was enough for you to post about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 11, 2016, 06:47:07 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 02:50:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 11, 2016, 02:25:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 01:53:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 11, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 11, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
How about just stop the silly WH light thing altogether.

How about people worry about real problems?

Okay.  You first :P

What trivial problems am I worrying about?

The White House light thing, or at least the criticism of it.  Was enough for you to post about it.

Well that's pretty weak. :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 11, 2016, 07:03:05 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13567068_2313617908661255_475294663358401627_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=e2722bec953b8279846b367109111cdb&oe=57EE1853)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 11, 2016, 08:52:41 PM
I hate when you move into a place and the former owners leave their old shit around.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 12, 2016, 02:07:13 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 11, 2016, 08:52:41 PM
I hate when you move into a place and the former owners leave their old shit around.

Old? OK Ed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on July 12, 2016, 07:05:52 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 11, 2016, 08:52:41 PM
I hate when you move into a place and the former owners leave their old shit around.

I laughed.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 12, 2016, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 11, 2016, 08:52:41 PM
I hate when you move into a place and the former owners leave their old shit around.

Weird.  Normally the orderlies make sure your room is ready as soon as the previous occupant is dischaege, before you get admitted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 12, 2016, 12:33:30 PM
:pinch:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 12, 2016, 12:59:57 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 12, 2016, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 11, 2016, 08:52:41 PM
I hate when you move into a place and the former owners leave their old shit around.

Weird.  Normally the orderlies make sure your room is ready as soon as the previous occupant is dischaege, before you get admitted.

I have a standing reservation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 12, 2016, 01:26:16 PM
OK Chief.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 12, 2016, 06:38:39 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13654290_10153704423967918_8594231319048425824_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=011228abcff11435b74c3d0a5eec7aa2&oe=57F9ADC9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 12, 2016, 06:41:02 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13600220_10209875711198791_7126225901755605799_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=3a2d4854f17d6773f3674dc28b3a55e9&oe=58244701)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 12, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 12, 2016, 02:07:13 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 11, 2016, 08:52:41 PM
I hate when you move into a place and the former owners leave their old shit around.

Old? OK Ed.
:pinch:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 12, 2016, 08:23:55 PM
Quote from: Liep on July 07, 2016, 08:11:51 AM
Does it really need a comma after 'country'? I always find English commas confusing.

No.  The punctuation in that poster is all fucked up.  It's what you'd expect from pinheads, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 12, 2016, 08:26:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 11, 2016, 11:07:43 AM
Oh FFS. What lights was he supposed to light his house up in reaction to that? The colors of the Dallas Cowboys?

I don't understand that photoshop at all.   Did Obama do the first two photoshops and someone is angry that he didn't do a third?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 12, 2016, 08:31:55 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 12, 2016, 06:41:02 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13600220_10209875711198791_7126225901755605799_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=3a2d4854f17d6773f3674dc28b3a55e9&oe=58244701)

That one, I like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 12, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkbMv1kCEAEGXt8.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on July 12, 2016, 10:32:58 PM
Looks more like the difference between getting kicked in the shin and getting a blow job.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2016, 05:44:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 12, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkbMv1kCEAEGXt8.jpg)

They misspelled "humiliated."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 13, 2016, 06:02:43 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 12, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkbMv1kCEAEGXt8.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g-YnBtN9fg
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 13, 2016, 10:17:24 PM
Here's one for Seedy:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on July 14, 2016, 10:28:17 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2016, 11:07:14 AM
LOL #Paradox #Feminism
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 14, 2016, 04:59:26 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13600067_263364460701227_318048788514087976_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=a86029ebb1f317d52ad5fca73a578b89&oe=57EB745A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 14, 2016, 08:22:21 PM
Looks like the black guys winning.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 14, 2016, 08:27:47 PM
Not for long. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 15, 2016, 06:21:31 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13626503_1070054056375534_6419940299614897468_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=b261b3d49b76fca75d74e982b003f409&oe=57F0D505)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 16, 2016, 03:47:04 AM
*Trigger warning* [spoiler](for the butthurt)[/spoiler]

For the francophones :)

(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620867_597414303765800_4997605939346457297_n.jpg?oh=96b6416b7d28e0e8359812788e742bc6&oe=58310673)


Grammar mistakes give it a different meaning than intended. Semantically, a mess by the end anyways.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on July 17, 2016, 07:11:02 PM
(https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13728907_10157114527050414_989078555367014626_n.jpg?oh=c3439bbd488e6166904e2d917035cb5c&oe=57ED3FD6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 18, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13718684_1719841041610284_5960288027666481266_n.jpg?oh=330d2a6bfc998e9fce4f275dd41c9f2d&oe=5832FA93)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 18, 2016, 04:32:04 PM
Monstrous
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 18, 2016, 06:09:48 PM
The joke stopped being funny about 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on July 18, 2016, 06:11:36 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on July 17, 2016, 07:11:02 PM
(https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13728907_10157114527050414_989078555367014626_n.jpg?oh=c3439bbd488e6166904e2d917035cb5c&oe=57ED3FD6)

You trying to turn me on?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2016, 06:17:53 PM
For a moment I zought Generalmajor Val Kilmer has schprung a voodie, und zen I saw it vas just zee baby's arm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Legbiter on July 18, 2016, 06:21:48 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 15, 2016, 06:21:31 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13626503_1070054056375534_6419940299614897468_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=b261b3d49b76fca75d74e982b003f409&oe=57F0D505)

:lol: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 18, 2016, 09:52:33 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13770393_10153756524698339_2710059193028351802_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=46fa733d1326460c3b5498905539758f&oe=57F1F88B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 19, 2016, 03:06:45 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnsEopWUMAAxeRm.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 19, 2016, 03:16:00 PM
And Happy Days continues to torment the country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 19, 2016, 03:17:13 PM
Guidos.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 27, 2016, 06:42:02 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13631661_1294268660584895_5097332465396664494_n.jpg?oh=d90a19b26ad51fd2f1b450f9b8c0c1a4&oe=58306849)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 27, 2016, 10:09:23 AM
I would order Mountain Dew. Pepsi is gross.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 27, 2016, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 27, 2016, 06:42:02 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13631661_1294268660584895_5097332465396664494_n.jpg?oh=d90a19b26ad51fd2f1b450f9b8c0c1a4&oe=58306849)

Is that a Michael Jackson reference? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 27, 2016, 10:26:51 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 27, 2016, 10:09:23 AM
I would order Mountain Dew. Pepsi is gross.

I'd just go without Soda if Pepsi was my only choice. Thankfully, I have Coke available. :yeah:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 27, 2016, 10:33:08 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH_7OsdUEAE0bJb.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 27, 2016, 03:56:26 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 27, 2016, 10:09:23 AM
I would order Mountain Dew. Pepsi is gross.

Yech! I'd have the crab juice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 11:03:24 AM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13876409_10209727575177335_2733246678098056149_n.jpg?oh=c4ca1b549ab19462450d259e35b32d52&oe=5834E30F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 29, 2016, 03:56:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 27, 2016, 10:26:51 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 27, 2016, 10:09:23 AM
I would order Mountain Dew. Pepsi is gross.

I'd just go without Soda if Pepsi was my only choice. Thankfully, I have Coke available. :yeah:
'

I cut soda out of my diet and lost 16 pounds!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 04:26:40 PM
Keep at it. Cutting stuff like that does amazing things for your health.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 05:40:43 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13782270_1201142949907556_6146797842753732363_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=ee8bdfdefec0d81e74221367af49dcd4&oe=585D552F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 08:49:16 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/29/technology/facebook-irs-penalty/index.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 29, 2016, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 29, 2016, 05:40:43 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13782270_1201142949907556_6146797842753732363_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=ee8bdfdefec0d81e74221367af49dcd4&oe=585D552F)
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2016, 01:36:31 PM
That's me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on August 01, 2016, 01:47:35 AM
(https://scontent.fsnc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13872997_989771957807599_6284342817284737604_n.jpg?oh=80c5c6787e208cedc0a02c341935df58&oe=581966A1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 01, 2016, 06:44:59 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13879188_914964808625699_2035237006993700848_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=bfd7f496971de039952568942a09c655&oe=582ED5E9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on August 01, 2016, 08:13:13 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on August 01, 2016, 01:47:35 AM
(https://scontent.fsnc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13872997_989771957807599_6284342817284737604_n.jpg?oh=80c5c6787e208cedc0a02c341935df58&oe=581966A1)

This one popped up in my Facebook feed from an old army buddy but with Hillary instead of Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 01, 2016, 08:41:07 PM
B4, I very strongly doubt that Trump looks so good without a shirt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 05, 2016, 04:48:37 PM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/13920871_521597668038211_7928143053605148545_n.jpg?oh=71f2de41d29c8168dc9a96da18f6298d&oe=5856C88A)

:XD:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2016, 06:20:22 PM
Marty going anti woman's health now? Hug.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 06, 2016, 12:48:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2016, 06:20:22 PM
Marty going anti woman's health now? Hug.

I am not going anti anything. I just thought it was a funny juxtaposition - a network of abortion clinics slamming someone for being mean to babies.

I know the world at large has gone insane, where making a joke means you are taking a political stance, but it is a bit sad that this forum has also sunk so much since the KAPland days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 06, 2016, 01:03:24 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/13925216_611839822312225_6299374346975612659_n.jpg?oh=ea9b24bdf52fd560ab0e75bb9a8b8ff1&oe=5859FEFA&__gda__=1477444979_e1ac362b1c397401a8dcb5ea39b48fe3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on August 06, 2016, 09:12:07 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 06, 2016, 12:48:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2016, 06:20:22 PM
Marty going anti woman's health now? Hug.

I am not going anti anything. I just thought it was a funny juxtaposition - a network of abortion clinics slamming someone for being mean to babies.

I know the world at large has gone insane, where making a joke means you are taking a political stance, but it is a bit sad that this forum has also sunk so much since the KAPland days.

The fact that you're calling it a "network of abortion clinics" kinda shows the stance you're taking, considering that's less than 1% of what Planned Parenthood does, but please, by all means, don't let me interrupt your neocon parroting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 06, 2016, 09:51:39 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 06, 2016, 12:48:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2016, 06:20:22 PM
Marty going anti woman's health now? Hug.

I am not going anti anything. I just thought it was a funny juxtaposition - a network of abortion clinics slamming someone for being mean to babies.

I know the world at large has gone insane, where making a joke means you are taking a political stance, but it is a bit sad that this forum has also sunk so much since the KAPland days.

But they are not abortion clinics though :lol: so smearing them that way IS taking a political stance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 06, 2016, 09:54:13 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2016%2F08%2F02%2F20%2F36B781F800000578-3720413-image-a-1_1470164954452.jpg&hash=e0acb480cf943bd45b62a96c5a6ad5316e938175)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on August 06, 2016, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 06, 2016, 12:48:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2016, 06:20:22 PM
Marty going anti woman's health now? Hug.

a network of abortion clinics slamming someone for being mean to babies.

God you are a fucking idiot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 06, 2016, 11:23:24 PM
Planned Parenthood has always been at war with eastasia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 07, 2016, 11:32:28 AM
For the record, kudos to Trump for taking a stance against screaming babies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 07, 2016, 11:32:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 06, 2016, 09:51:39 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 06, 2016, 12:48:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2016, 06:20:22 PM
Marty going anti woman's health now? Hug.

I am not going anti anything. I just thought it was a funny juxtaposition - a network of abortion clinics slamming someone for being mean to babies.

I know the world at large has gone insane, where making a joke means you are taking a political stance, but it is a bit sad that this forum has also sunk so much since the KAPland days.

But they are not abortion clinics though :lol: so smearing them that way IS taking a political stance.

They aren't?

According to online sources, they are the biggest provider of abortion services in the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 07, 2016, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 07, 2016, 11:32:51 AM
They aren't?

According to online sources, they are the biggest provider of abortion services in the US.

PP is nationwide.  Most if not all abortion clinics are local.  Naturally they'll be the biggest provider.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 07, 2016, 02:03:17 PM
Quote from: katmai on August 06, 2016, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 06, 2016, 12:48:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2016, 06:20:22 PM
Marty going anti woman's health now? Hug.

a network of abortion clinics slamming someone for being mean to babies.

God you are a fucking idiot.

He is, isn't he? Simply because they provide abortion services doesn't mean they hate babies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 07, 2016, 11:22:41 PM
I thought it was funny, Mart.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 09, 2016, 02:58:43 AM
This was posted on my Facebook with the caption "Dress for the job you want".  :D

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13938360_613241395505401_1928842249571876052_n.png?oh=7646fd39ee6731cd8736b0cf3a12985f&oe=585195E2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 09, 2016, 04:39:59 AM
That's just a Mao pantsuit, she doesn't have a pill organizer pinned to her lapel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 09, 2016, 06:05:15 AM
I like how Tarkin has that "anybody got a pen?" ambidextrous thing going.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 10, 2016, 02:38:21 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13880316_1412557922088515_1772580239384543597_n.jpg?oh=358a400f8c72c3424e383699d3fad110&oe=585B1724)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 10, 2016, 04:18:22 PM
An 18 year old female Syrian refugee living in Berlin swam as part of the IOC refugee team in Rio today. The German federal government cheered her on their official Facebook page. The comments section there is sufficiently stupid to fill pages of this thread.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 12, 2016, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: Zanza on August 10, 2016, 04:18:22 PM
An 18 year old female Syrian refugee living in Berlin swam as part of the IOC refugee team in Rio today. The German federal government cheered her on their official Facebook page. The comments section there is sufficiently stupid to fill pages of this thread.  :wacko:

The Hungarian state TV's commentator "forgot" to mention her name, the team she was swimming for, or where she is from. Then again, he also forgot mention the name of the Hungarian guy in the 4-men swimming relay team who is the son of an ex state secretary who left the governing party over disgust of their policies.

I heard the commentator recently got a very lenient suspended verdict on a domestic violence case where he beat the crap out of his wife, so I guess he feels he needs to be loyal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 14, 2016, 12:51:22 AM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13775754_10153840529371275_9044262104897728561_n.jpg?oh=e9439fb29d80bbf3916bab6aa59415b8&oe=5853B03C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 14, 2016, 02:50:31 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 14, 2016, 12:51:22 AM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13775754_10153840529371275_9044262104897728561_n.jpg?oh=e9439fb29d80bbf3916bab6aa59415b8&oe=5853B03C)

Uhm, that it's 2016 and people are allowed to remarry?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 14, 2016, 02:56:01 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2016, 02:50:31 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 14, 2016, 12:51:22 AM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13775754_10153840529371275_9044262104897728561_n.jpg?oh=e9439fb29d80bbf3916bab6aa59415b8&oe=5853B03C)

Uhm, that it's 2016 and people are allowed to remarry?  :huh:

Hillary hasn't remarried.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 14, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
I do think it is a poor one as it makes it seem like that kind of opinion is something we should care about/by comparison has a slight tinge that Trump's marital relations are immoral. Still very unlikely that a twice divorced Hil would be looked upon kindly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2016, 09:13:02 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2016, 02:50:31 AMUhm, that it's 2016 and people are allowed to remarry?  :huh:

Have you never heard of social conservative religious right wing people before? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 14, 2016, 09:23:08 AM
Being socially conservative religious right wing people didn't stop my parents from getting divorced.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 14, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
I do think it is a poor one as it makes it seem like that kind of opinion is something we should care about/by comparison has a slight tinge that Trump's marital relations are immoral.

I know, right?  Especially since he eventually married every mistress he was cheating on his wives with. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 14, 2016, 10:11:21 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 14, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
I do think it is a poor one as it makes it seem like that kind of opinion is something we should care about/by comparison has a slight tinge that Trump's marital relations are immoral.

I know, right?  Especially since he eventually married every mistress he was cheating on his wives with. 

I don't know that I'm all that bothered by cheating in general except that it is quite a sign of weakness. If you want to mess around with other people when you've ostensibly entered a monogamous relationship than have those awkward conversations ahead of time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 15, 2016, 08:59:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
I do think it is a poor one as it makes it seem like that kind of opinion is something we should care about/by comparison has a slight tinge that Trump's marital relations are immoral. Still very unlikely that a twice divorced Hil would be looked upon kindly.

It's supposed to be pointing out a double standard. Powerful men are not looked down upon (as much) for marital infidelity.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 15, 2016, 09:02:24 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 15, 2016, 08:59:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
I do think it is a poor one as it makes it seem like that kind of opinion is something we should care about/by comparison has a slight tinge that Trump's marital relations are immoral. Still very unlikely that a twice divorced Hil would be looked upon kindly.

It's supposed to be pointing out a double standard. Powerful men are not looked down upon (as much) for marital infidelity.



Oh, of course, I know that's what they are intending - just has some bad connotations as I noted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 15, 2016, 12:22:57 PM
(https://i.redd.it/k0vk41capgfx.png)

:XD:

QuoteKatrina Lanette Pierson (née Shaddix,[1] born July 20, 1976[a]) is an American Tea Party activist and communications consultant. Since November 2015, she serves as national spokesperson for the Donald Trump 2016 presidential campaign.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 15, 2016, 03:36:23 PM
Collective insanity. What can you do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 15, 2016, 03:46:53 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 15, 2016, 03:36:23 PM
Collective insanity. What can you do.

It has been going on for almost 2000 years. If they haven't wised up by now, probably nothing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 15, 2016, 04:59:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2016, 10:11:21 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 14, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
I do think it is a poor one as it makes it seem like that kind of opinion is something we should care about/by comparison has a slight tinge that Trump's marital relations are immoral.

I know, right?  Especially since he eventually married every mistress he was cheating on his wives with. 

I don't know that I'm all that bothered by cheating in general except that it is quite a sign of weakness. If you want to mess around with other people when you've ostensibly entered a monogamous relationship than have those awkward conversations ahead of time.

I think that marital infidelity is a pretty big sign of poor character in general.  But I can't really hold it against Trump because Clinton supporters have spent much of the last 24 years telling us that we shouldn't hold it against Bill. 

Fortunately, there are plenty of other things to hold against Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 15, 2016, 07:33:57 PM
The difference is Bill's women knew they were having a fling, whereas Donald's women thought they had found true love.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 15, 2016, 07:35:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 15, 2016, 07:33:57 PM
The difference is Bill's women knew they were having a fling, whereas Donald's women thought they had found a billionaire husband.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 15, 2016, 07:36:24 PM
That's the joke. :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 15, 2016, 07:37:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 15, 2016, 07:36:24 PM
That's the joke. :mellow:

My bad.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 16, 2016, 12:13:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
I do think it is a poor one as it makes it seem like that kind of opinion is something we should care about/by comparison has a slight tinge that Trump's marital relations are immoral. Still very unlikely that a twice divorced Hil would be looked upon kindly.
It's not that Trump's marital relations are immoral, it's that Republicans would certainly criticize Hillary for that, just as they worried about the other Clinton's sex life, and just as this Clinton husband's infidelity has been used against her by republican-types.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 16, 2016, 12:21:50 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 16, 2016, 12:13:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
I do think it is a poor one as it makes it seem like that kind of opinion is something we should care about/by comparison has a slight tinge that Trump's marital relations are immoral. Still very unlikely that a twice divorced Hil would be looked upon kindly.
It's not that Trump's marital relations are immoral, it's that Republicans would certainly criticize Hillary for that, just as they worried about the other Clinton's sex life, and just as this Clinton husband's infidelity has been used against her by republican-types.

Yes, I understand that. What I'm saying though is that those other sorts of thoughts (the ones I mentioned) are things that come to mind when seeing such a complaint.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 16, 2016, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 16, 2016, 12:13:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2016, 03:11:50 AM
I do think it is a poor one as it makes it seem like that kind of opinion is something we should care about/by comparison has a slight tinge that Trump's marital relations are immoral. Still very unlikely that a twice divorced Hil would be looked upon kindly.
It's not that Trump's marital relations are immoral, it's that Republicans would certainly criticize Hillary for that, just as they worried about the other Clinton's sex life, and just as this Clinton husband's infidelity has been used against her by republican-types.

Hillary has been consistently criticized as an enabler, which by the GOP's own Harper Valley PTA standards, is as bad--if not worse--than the adultery itself...hell, Trump has already called Bill Clinton a rapist, so we have plenty of time for him to set himself on fire and call Hillary an accomplice to rape.  My bet would be during a debate.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 16, 2016, 08:37:41 PM
Not going to miss those for the world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 16, 2016, 08:45:05 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 16, 2016, 08:37:41 PM
Not going to miss those for the world.

I think you are, because the Donald wants you to. :lol: 

He won the nomination sitting out; hell, they cancelled one just because he didn't attend.  In his mind, that will work for him again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 16, 2016, 09:16:13 PM
All she has to do is start needling him if he does that. His ego will get the best of him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 19, 2016, 03:18:06 AM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13876703_1236919086359295_8022619113749986084_n.jpg?oh=ba85ba4e6257b2ea7c21e449e1a864fc&oe=5853DCA6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on August 19, 2016, 03:32:29 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 19, 2016, 07:37:11 AM
That one isn't far from the truth. So not really a folly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 19, 2016, 07:39:40 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 19, 2016, 07:37:11 AM
That one isn't far from the truth. So not really a folly.

I mainly just post anything here that I come across on social media that is a folly...or I think worthy of note. -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 20, 2016, 10:55:06 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foverheard.liketodiscover.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F08%2FBl1wua9CMAAG4mH.jpg&hash=2bf6ba1431ce0d58b3556596b4ae58dd944d7077)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 20, 2016, 04:51:46 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 19, 2016, 07:37:11 AM
That one isn't far from the truth. So not really a folly.

Hey, if it gets the little shits reading...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 21, 2016, 04:03:10 AM
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-love-you-but-our-happiness-doesnt-fit-my-personal-brands-narrative-strategy

QuoteI LOVE YOU, BUT OUR HAPPINESS DOESN'T FIT MY PERSONAL BRAND'S NARRATIVE STRATEGY.


BY MATTHEW SCHMID

- - - -
I've noticed that you've been a little upset about my recent social media output, particularly the tweet, "Oh my god, will the loneliness never end? #ImMiserable" which, as you deftly noticed, was tweeted during our second anniversary dinner date. As my significant other, you have every right to be upset. But, as I've said many times: I love you, but our happiness doesn't fit my personal brand narrative strategy.

My market research shows that nihilism is hot right now. Malcontent millennials tend to share posts significantly more if they contain phrases like "I'm dead inside" or "I'm am consumed by despair." So, while I do love you and love the life we share together, expressing that joy on social media would undo all the work I've put into carefully crafting my personal brand's "voice." It's called strategy for a reason, babe.

I have 665 followers on Twitter — that's almost 700. Can you imagine what would happen if all of the sudden my personal brand narrative went from self-deprecating existential musings to "Hey guys, I'm in love!" What would my followers think? Sure, most of them are our mutual friends and colleagues, but still, who would they turn to? I can't bear the thought of ever finding out.

If I want to have a strong brand narrative, my "voice" has to be consistent across all distribution channels. So, yes, that does mean captioning Instagram photos of us with "If I had a time machine I would change everything. EVERYTHING." And yes, that does mean that when I check into our favorite restaurant on Facebook the caption is just that straight-line-mouth emoticon. And, yes again, that even means pinning cross-stitch patterns that say STARING INTO THE ENDLESS BLACK VOID on my Pinterest page. That's just strong brand equity common sense.

And, really, just because I am not constantly professing my love for you online doesn't mean I don't love you. I do love you. I tell you that all the time in private. So, when I say "I love you, you are my life," I mean it. The fact that I tweet, "I hate my life, I want to die" immediately afterward doesn't change a thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 21, 2016, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 20, 2016, 04:51:46 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 19, 2016, 07:37:11 AM
That one isn't far from the truth. So not really a folly.

Hey, if it gets the little shits reading...

I honestly don't remember reading anything that was classified as "young adult" when I was teenager.  My parents taught me to read very early, and I had to read a book a week in grade school (for my parents, not for the school.  They didn't give a shit if I could read or not).  Mostly really boring novels written in 1950's.  The results were a bit ...uneven.  I could read at a college level before I could tell left from right and had the periodic table memorized before I could tie my shoes.  That was sort of embarrassing in Junior High.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 22, 2016, 01:23:43 PM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14095731_10153800188371787_1973614683513886870_n.jpg?oh=2506981ea30dc89f8e5607c7fe7b3202&oe=581041E9)

Gotta love that one.  I'll report in a week to tell you how many people on my FB have shared this without thinking about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 22, 2016, 01:25:31 PM
I've seen it being shared with everyone laughing about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 22, 2016, 01:46:01 PM
The terrifyingly ageless Britney Spears?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2016, 01:46:57 PM
Must be the Trump campaign's latest press release.  Oh, Katrina.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 22, 2016, 06:16:38 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.outofregs.com%2FpostImages%2F1440721761.jpg&hash=aefb0141f6fdecd79b92fe00735ff9ccf6700c27)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 22, 2016, 07:18:55 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 22, 2016, 11:33:43 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14034799_10154494465933854_7890347614698678608_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=2315b62d21f70cea56d61f5de8d98cb3&oe=584F1E02)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 23, 2016, 12:05:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 21, 2016, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 20, 2016, 04:51:46 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 19, 2016, 07:37:11 AM
That one isn't far from the truth. So not really a folly.

Hey, if it gets the little shits reading...

I honestly don't remember reading anything that was classified as "young adult" when I was teenager. 

I believe it was called "barely legal" back then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 23, 2016, 06:10:10 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14051670_1641293469514298_1910999557428324099_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=4c7a12ca146400a6b78b516202813ceb&oe=584D5C8F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2016, 06:13:09 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 22, 2016, 11:33:43 PM
<pic of 3 black guys>

And yet, all three are equally likely to get pulled over or get shot all to fuck by the cops\creepy ass crackers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 25, 2016, 02:55:29 AM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10420763_401343753406645_8487992347637360044_n.jpg?oh=44677f7caad8ddc781e6b05fad40a5fd&oe=5847138D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 25, 2016, 05:40:25 AM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14034808_932531946868985_6297680156121364455_n.jpg?oh=d2bbc3e8602a26e02612bdaa2508c6ad&oe=5811B7C6)

:XD:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 28, 2016, 05:27:10 AM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14102451_621372471358960_488846285628863976_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=b9c74304478d292ce10e7e31567af9c4&oe=5851C7C8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 29, 2016, 04:48:11 PM
QuoteImportant request! Has anyone hired mariachis for an event in [place] that they would recommend? We're looking to hire a trio or quartet to play at our wedding.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 29, 2016, 05:09:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 29, 2016, 04:48:11 PM
QuoteImportant request! Has anyone hired mariachis for an event in [place] that they would recommend? We're looking to hire a trio or quartet to play at our wedding.

A buddy of mine from university is in a mariachi fusion band. Seriously.  :mellow:

http://www.themariachighost.com/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 30, 2016, 05:26:55 AM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14184338_622277901268417_719384427898877192_n.jpg?oh=5aef58bc6ae74457432bfef161a91c21&oe=585A7C77)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on August 31, 2016, 09:00:03 AM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13920436_10155117433032468_5011942465139842121_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 31, 2016, 09:01:32 AM
Lol it's like Cards Against Humanity :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 31, 2016, 09:12:03 AM
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 31, 2016, 12:47:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 31, 2016, 09:01:32 AM
Lol it's like Cards Against Humanity :D
So is a ballot for Libertarian sponsored referendum.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 31, 2016, 01:28:12 PM
Where's Ru?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2016, 10:41:40 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13932744_1758947024362121_5202118495839835608_n.jpg?oh=5a817d6e96c1575b1aa0e2ca96ed1a52&oe=584135C4)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on September 02, 2016, 09:49:13 AM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14067722_1107207336040140_2191374080032092753_n.jpg?oh=6aaec44b05cbdd971b60467a4ecfa319&oe=5883303F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 02, 2016, 11:30:10 AM
LOL ok that one's awesme
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 02, 2016, 11:39:09 AM
:(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 02, 2016, 12:00:41 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 02, 2016, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 31, 2016, 01:28:12 PM
Where's Ru?

Working it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 02, 2016, 12:13:08 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/14203317_2108115439412761_1401183219696848644_n.jpg?oh=b831bd08d0cfbbf198b0fa6129573d42&oe=583EE3E6&__gda__=1481451939_b99aebfd8fcffd8c6d3ce28eaa1c02cb)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 02, 2016, 04:12:22 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/14192539_1083973825028014_6386019217080265664_n.jpg?oh=159dc6d77eb833fc378c191d89cd49c7&oe=584D6F8C&__gda__=1481217203_d79a5c8d5d42e608cbe80e8185d0f149)

I fit at least 7. Can you guess which?  :w00t:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on September 02, 2016, 04:16:50 PM
Feminists, Porn Freaks, Pot Smokers, Thugs, Yoga Pants, Muslims, Witches
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 02, 2016, 04:17:34 PM
Stop cutting yourself when you masturbate in yoga pants, you porn freak thug.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 02, 2016, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on September 02, 2016, 04:16:50 PM
Feminists, Porn Freaks, Pot Smokers, Thugs, Yoga Pants, Muslims, Witches

Got 3 right. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 02, 2016, 05:36:06 PM
All of them except Muslim.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 02, 2016, 06:39:53 PM
From the right side of my friends:

https://s14.postimg.org/498sxfygx/image.jpg

NSFW
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 02, 2016, 08:59:53 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14188558_609509452544408_6377553986013790003_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 02, 2016, 09:11:06 PM
 :lol: fantastic
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 03, 2016, 11:02:12 AM
when ur trash but still better than everyone else
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoxGzNCWcAIufwE.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 07, 2016, 07:41:54 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/11998849_10153056344330079_2949322418445490764_n.jpg?oh=ba6d811b0c3c85366c8d304685064d64&oe=58497B0C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 07, 2016, 07:47:48 AM
:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 07, 2016, 07:53:07 AM
I'm wondering if it is like some meta comment. Like don't be negative about the grammar issue?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2016, 12:59:26 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F67.media.tumblr.com%2F35067797c5e918d8957970fc712ca151%2Ftumblr_o02i634FUf1rdcoy0o1_1280.jpg&hash=2484e5c433daf9167cdc477c55b0b881d6c3d59e)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 08, 2016, 01:57:40 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on September 08, 2016, 06:22:30 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 08, 2016, 01:57:40 PM
:lol:
:lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 08, 2016, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 08, 2016, 06:22:30 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 08, 2016, 01:57:40 PM
:lol:
:lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 08, 2016, 06:34:15 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7f/Graham_Chapman_Colonel.jpg/220px-Graham_Chapman_Colonel.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on September 08, 2016, 06:38:01 PM
But it's just so hilarious!!!!

I'm ROLLING ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING MY ASS OUT.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 08, 2016, 06:51:20 PM
Syt is back?  :w00t: I'd hate to see the backlog of Facebook shit he's got from his family.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 09, 2016, 02:56:14 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTtyTYUVAAEekls.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 09, 2016, 03:46:23 AM
That's Pippi Longstocking and Ramesses II. People should learn to image google right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 09, 2016, 05:20:17 AM
Willie Nelson wound up settling for less than $6M without having to liquidate any assets; the US taxpayer had to eat the rest. 
But hey, there's an opportunity to blah blah blah nigger nigger nigger.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 09, 2016, 09:38:11 AM
I'm getting shitloads of Colin Kapernick crap in the Facebook lately.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 09, 2016, 09:54:09 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 09, 2016, 09:38:11 AM
I'm getting shitloads of Colin Kapernick crap in the Facebook lately.

Me too. He is the new Harambe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 09, 2016, 10:03:59 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 09, 2016, 09:54:09 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 09, 2016, 09:38:11 AM
I'm getting shitloads of Colin Kapernick crap in the Facebook lately.

Me too. He is the new Harambe.

Damn, you Euros are racist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 10:07:49 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 09, 2016, 09:38:11 AM
I'm getting shitloads of Colin Kapernick crap in the Facebook lately.

I know. When will that shit go away? Who cares?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 09, 2016, 10:09:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 10:07:49 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 09, 2016, 09:38:11 AM
I'm getting shitloads of Colin Kapernick crap in the Facebook lately.

I know. When will that shit go away? Who cares?

I know I don't. But at least it isn't like my cousin's posts, which involve pictures of bacon. ALL OF THEM.

:yucky:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 09, 2016, 10:09:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoYvUq4UAAAZaAr.jpg)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/40/b4/36/40b4368b3480b30dd7261da59fc1e0ba.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 10:14:47 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 09, 2016, 10:09:56 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoYvUq4UAAAZaAr.jpg)

That might be the stupidest one yet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 09, 2016, 10:27:01 AM
 :lol:  who said it's not OK in the first place? :lol:

That's what's so hilarious with the Fox-fueled right wing: if you make shit up and shout it long enough, and normal people will tune out instead of challenging it--leaving them their Cone of Silence, all to themselves, feeding off their own amplified positive acoustic feedback.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 09, 2016, 10:27:15 AM
:bleeding: to both.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 09, 2016, 01:42:03 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 09, 2016, 10:27:01 AM
:lol:  who said it's not OK in the first place? :lol:

That's what's so hilarious with the Fox-fueled right wing: if you make shit up and shout it long enough, and normal people will tune out instead of challenging it--leaving them their Cone of Silence, all to themselves, feeding off their own amplified positive acoustic feedback.

Ugh, this.  You have millions of Americans who believe that kids are punished if they try to pray at school.  You can pray your heart out at school.  You can't have the teacher lead prayer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 09, 2016, 01:54:11 PM
That's a pic of kids taking the pledge of allegiance, Raz.  They're not praying.
Just making sure you're on top on that one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 09, 2016, 02:24:53 PM
I'm on top of this one.  When I went to school nobody claimed that the Pledge of Allegiance was Verboten.   It was comely believed that school prayer was.  It was extremely irritating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 09, 2016, 09:07:51 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvmHF9tu.jpg&hash=4818b3817622d09db8b549c0f0006408728d6a97)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 09, 2016, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.

I put beans in my chili every single time.  I had a revelation a few years ago when I started putting not just red kidney beans, but black beans in my chili - it was so good. :mmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2016, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.

I put beans in my chili every single time.  I had a revelation a few years ago when I started putting not just red kidney beans, but black beans in my chili - it was so good. :mmm:

Another traditional food destroyed and my culture slowly being chipped away. WTF Alberta? I thought you were the Texas of Canada :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:09:56 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2016, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.

I put beans in my chili every single time.  I had a revelation a few years ago when I started putting not just red kidney beans, but black beans in my chili - it was so good. :mmm:

Another traditional food destroyed and my culture slowly being chipped away. WTF Alberta? I thought you were the Texas of Canada :weep:

I thought Texas was the Alberta of the USA. :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2016, 12:10:55 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:09:56 AM

I thought Texas was the Alberta of the USA. :weep:

Texas has better beaches.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:14:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2016, 12:10:55 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:09:56 AM

I thought Texas was the Alberta of the USA. :weep:

Texas has better beaches.

Touche.

But Manitoba has better beaches than either. :contract:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.chrisd.ca%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2Fgrand-beach.jpg&hash=bd81d7ab3a70531e3f5eb6feb1bc6ab6f3e24991)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 10, 2016, 12:17:02 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2016, 12:10:55 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:09:56 AM

I thought Texas was the Alberta of the USA. :weep:

Texas has better beaches.
alberta exports "beach" sand because it's so good. :whistle:


Ya, I found it odd too, but it's commonly used for international beach volleyball venues, or at least that's what tv told me at some summer olympics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 10, 2016, 12:17:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:14:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2016, 12:10:55 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:09:56 AM

I thought Texas was the Alberta of the USA. :weep:

Texas has better beaches.

Touche.

But Manitoba has better beaches than either. :contract:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.chrisd.ca%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2Fgrand-beach.jpg&hash=bd81d7ab3a70531e3f5eb6feb1bc6ab6f3e24991)
the mosquitos make the beaches extra special
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:23:22 AM
The family and I rented a cabin at Grand Beach Manitoba last year for summer holidays - holy crap was that just as good a beach as I remember as a kid.

Hideous numbers of fish flies, of course, but they don't bite. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 10, 2016, 12:25:37 AM
Looked up Manitoba fish flies. The pictures are like Moses wet dream.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:28:07 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 10, 2016, 12:25:37 AM
Looked up Manitoba fish flies. The pictures are like Moses wet dream.

But they don't bite. :contract:

Mrs B. was kind of grossed out by them at first.  But they just land on stuff.  They don't actually do anything.  They're harmless.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2016, 01:28:47 AM
Koreans have been putting hot dogs in kimchi stew since the Korean war.  STFU you retard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2016, 01:30:51 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2016, 01:28:47 AM
Koreans have been putting hot dogs in kimchi stew since the Korean war.  STFU you retard.

Yet another culture COMPLETELY DESTROYED. Way to go world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 10, 2016, 02:11:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2016, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.

I put beans in my chili every single time.  I had a revelation a few years ago when I started putting not just red kidney beans, but black beans in my chili - it was so good. :mmm:

Another traditional food destroyed and my culture slowly being chipped away. WTF Alberta? I thought you were the Texas of Canada :weep:

I know you are joking, but one thing that these "culture appropriation" morons fail to understand is that culture is not static and does not develop in a vacuum. It did not just emerge as a Platonic form, ex nihilo - it is a product of centuries of changes, influences, experimenting and cross-polinating with other cultures. Shakespeare, Mozart and Picasso were all "cultural appropriators". Without it you have no development of any kind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 10, 2016, 02:21:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 10, 2016, 02:11:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2016, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.

I put beans in my chili every single time.  I had a revelation a few years ago when I started putting not just red kidney beans, but black beans in my chili - it was so good. :mmm:

Another traditional food destroyed and my culture slowly being chipped away. WTF Alberta? I thought you were the Texas of Canada :weep:

I know you are joking, but one thing that these "culture appropriation" morons fail to understand is that culture is not static and does not develop in a vacuum. It did not just emerge as a Platonic form, ex nihilo - it is a product of centuries of changes, influences, experimenting and cross-polinating with other cultures. Shakespeare, Mozart and Picasso were all "cultural appropriators". Without it you have no development of any kind.

So the ends justify the means? OK monster.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 10, 2016, 02:31:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 10, 2016, 02:21:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 10, 2016, 02:11:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2016, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.

I put beans in my chili every single time.  I had a revelation a few years ago when I started putting not just red kidney beans, but black beans in my chili - it was so good. :mmm:

Another traditional food destroyed and my culture slowly being chipped away. WTF Alberta? I thought you were the Texas of Canada :weep:

I know you are joking, but one thing that these "culture appropriation" morons fail to understand is that culture is not static and does not develop in a vacuum. It did not just emerge as a Platonic form, ex nihilo - it is a product of centuries of changes, influences, experimenting and cross-polinating with other cultures. Shakespeare, Mozart and Picasso were all "cultural appropriators". Without it you have no development of any kind.

So the ends justify the means? OK monster.

I think his point is there are no ends.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 10, 2016, 02:41:59 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 10, 2016, 02:11:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2016, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.

I put beans in my chili every single time.  I had a revelation a few years ago when I started putting not just red kidney beans, but black beans in my chili - it was so good. :mmm:

Another traditional food destroyed and my culture slowly being chipped away. WTF Alberta? I thought you were the Texas of Canada :weep:

I know you are joking, but one thing that these "culture appropriation" morons fail to understand is that culture is not static and does not develop in a vacuum. It did not just emerge as a Platonic form, ex nihilo - it is a product of centuries of changes, influences, experimenting and cross-polinating with other cultures. Shakespeare, Mozart and Picasso were all "cultural appropriators". Without it you have no development of any kind.
its just another form of being angry for the sake of being angry. People have it too good and too much time on their hands.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Archy on September 10, 2016, 02:59:35 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2016, 01:28:47 AM
Koreans have been putting hot dogs in kimchi stew since the Korean war.  STFU you retard.
And that's why DPRK and it's great leader are the real embodiment of Korean Culture
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 10, 2016, 09:02:44 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.

:licklips:

But I just say no to Cinncinati style chili.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 10, 2016, 09:05:38 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2016, 01:28:47 AM
Koreans have been putting hot dogs in kimchi stew since the Korean war.  STFU you retard.

No joke;  the number of Koreans saved from starvation by US troops is incalculable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 10, 2016, 09:37:06 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:28:07 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 10, 2016, 12:25:37 AM
Looked up Manitoba fish flies. The pictures are like Moses wet dream.

But they don't bite. :contract:

Mrs B. was kind of grossed out by them at first.  But they just land on stuff.  They don't actually do anything.  They're harmless.

Damn non-functional Canadian insects.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2016, 12:06:14 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 10, 2016, 02:11:47 AM
I know you are joking, but one thing that these "culture appropriation" morons fail to understand is that culture is not static and does not develop in a vacuum. It did not just emerge as a Platonic form, ex nihilo - it is a product of centuries of changes, influences, experimenting and cross-polinating with other cultures. Shakespeare, Mozart and Picasso were all "cultural appropriators". Without it you have no development of any kind.

I kind of get where they are coming from. Outright stealing existing stuff and doing tacky renditions of other people's stuff is obnoxious. But the first is already illegal and the second is just...well...tacky. But because we live in an era of outrage and hyperbole this, perhaps understandable, annoyance with tackiness gets taken to insisting something is some kind of genocidal warcrime outright destroying a culture with the white imperialism. Because nothing can just be innocuous. It checks both my boxes by also being vague as to what exactly it is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2016, 12:07:27 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 10, 2016, 09:02:44 AM
But I just say no to Cinncinati style chili.

Doesn't it have spaghetti in it? DESTRUCTION OF TWO CULTURES
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 10, 2016, 12:13:47 PM
lol

Cheez Whiz?  On a cheese steak sub?  CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 10, 2016, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2016, 12:07:27 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 10, 2016, 09:02:44 AM
But I just say no to Cinncinati style chili.

Doesn't it have spaghetti in it? DESTRUCTION OF TWO CULTURES

We annhilated Italian culture, via pizza and Chef Boyardee, long ago.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on September 10, 2016, 05:16:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 09, 2016, 09:07:51 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvmHF9tu.jpg&hash=4818b3817622d09db8b549c0f0006408728d6a97)
Love it :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2016, 05:27:50 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:23:22 AM
The family and I rented a cabin at Grand Beach Manitoba last year for summer holidays - holy crap was that just as good a beach as I remember as a kid.

So it was still a terrible 'beach' then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2016, 05:29:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 10, 2016, 02:11:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2016, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Texas dies a little everytime some asshole in Ohio puts beans in their chili.

Which actually is something I prefer not to get out.

I put beans in my chili every single time.  I had a revelation a few years ago when I started putting not just red kidney beans, but black beans in my chili - it was so good. :mmm:

Another traditional food destroyed and my culture slowly being chipped away. WTF Alberta? I thought you were the Texas of Canada :weep:

I know you are joking, but one thing that these "culture appropriation" morons fail to understand is that culture is not static and does not develop in a vacuum. It did not just emerge as a Platonic form, ex nihilo - it is a product of centuries of changes, influences, experimenting and cross-polinating with other cultures. Shakespeare, Mozart and Picasso were all "cultural appropriators". Without it you have no development of any kind.

Well, sure. After all, we are waiting for Polish culture to hit its stride.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-09/7/14/asset/buzzfeed-prod-web15/sub-buzz-3287-1473272273-1.jpg?no-auto)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2016, 06:17:47 PM
Chili with beans :mmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 10, 2016, 07:57:28 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FL2EP0HH.jpg&hash=234101a6b25635c04cf3a79e3e3d8a9d71a77375)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 10, 2016, 10:39:27 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNGerwo0.jpg&hash=4c266dc6382285907484bb23b651e20d0dbf496a)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 11, 2016, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 10, 2016, 07:57:28 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FL2EP0HH.jpg&hash=234101a6b25635c04cf3a79e3e3d8a9d71a77375)
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2016, 12:11:44 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14232664_1163415797067980_306546530679499728_n.jpg?oh=f6c1a290ef782d0a957c640bb3a92809&oe=5848D5D9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 12, 2016, 07:22:35 AM
I'm fairly certain all the hijackers were killed that day, so I'm a bit baffled as to what they mean.  Jews?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2016, 07:28:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2016, 07:22:35 AM
I'm fairly certain all the hijackers were killed that day, so I'm a bit baffled as to what they mean.  Jews?
:osama:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 12, 2016, 08:06:14 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 10, 2016, 12:28:07 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 10, 2016, 12:25:37 AM
Looked up Manitoba fish flies. The pictures are like Moses wet dream.

But they don't bite. :contract:

Mrs B. was kind of grossed out by them at first.  But they just land on stuff.  They don't actually do anything.  They're harmless.

Seems this year was a bit of a swarm year for them.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/gimli-fish-flies-burrowing-mayflies-1.3676432
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 12, 2016, 08:14:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2016, 07:22:35 AM
I'm fairly certain all the hijackers were killed that day, so I'm a bit baffled as to what they mean.  Jews?

Al Qaeda is funding her campaign. Impressive. I didn't know they had it in them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2016, 11:22:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 12, 2016, 08:14:00 AM
Al Qaeda is funding her campaign. Impressive. I didn't know they had it in them.

OBAMA LIED
OSAMA DIED
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 12, 2016, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 12, 2016, 08:14:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2016, 07:22:35 AM
I'm fairly certain all the hijackers were killed that day, so I'm a bit baffled as to what they mean.  Jews?

Al Qaeda is funding her campaign. Impressive. I didn't know they had it in them.

Do they even exist as an organisation anymore?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 12, 2016, 12:15:32 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2016, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 12, 2016, 08:14:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 12, 2016, 07:22:35 AM
I'm fairly certain all the hijackers were killed that day, so I'm a bit baffled as to what they mean.  Jews?

Al Qaeda is funding her campaign. Impressive. I didn't know they had it in them.

Do they even exist as an organisation anymore?

Funding 20% of Clinton's campaign is clearly draining needed resources.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2016, 12:17:08 PM
20%, huh?  I guess with such accurate numbers, they have facts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2016, 12:43:26 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2016, 12:17:08 PM
20%, huh?  I guess with such accurate numbers, they have facts.

There seems to have been a June story about it: http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/06/14/saudi-arabia-has-funded-20-hillarys-presidential-campaign-saudi-crown-prince-claims

But its veracity is at least disputed: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/news-agency-claims-hacker-planted-story-about-hillary-clinton-campaign-links-saudi-funding-1565833

Politifact checked thestatus of Saudi donations to the Clinton Foundation: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/07/fact-checking-donations-clinton-foundation/

Quote[...]

Working backward from the numbers we have in hand, it seems fairly certain that Saudi Arabia gave about $10 million in the early 2000s, well before Clinton became secretary. That number would grow in 2014, but it didn't double. That would be a 100 percent increase, and the foundation said the 2014 amount was a small fraction of the total.

So we are left with the Saudis giving less than $25 million.

Now we can ask, did Clinton get that money for the foundation, as Trump said?

Josh Schwerin, spokesman for the Clinton campaign told us, "Hillary Clinton did not solicit these funds."

As a legal matter, Clinton was not a member of the foundation's board until 2013, after she left the administration. She was a board member in 2014 when the Saudis gave again, but that amount would be much less than $10 million.

There were no Saudi donations while she was secretary.

But if she ever attended an event with her husband -- official or unofficial -- and Saudi representatives were in the room, questions could arise.

[...]
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 12, 2016, 12:46:56 PM
Wait the Clinton Foundation is funding her political campaign? I thought that was some kind of charitable foundation that was used for EVIL or whatever. And while the Saudi government is pretty despicable I don't think they are responsible for 9/11.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 12, 2016, 12:56:47 PM
Clinton is also getting more oil money then trump. It's a weird election when oil is backing the dems over the republicans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2016, 01:05:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 12, 2016, 12:46:56 PM
Wait the Clinton Foundation is funding her political campaign? I thought that was some kind of charitable foundation that was used for EVIL or whatever. And while the Saudi government is pretty despicable I don't think they are responsible for 9/11.

Absolutely deplorable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 12, 2016, 01:07:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2016, 01:05:34 PM


Absolutely deplorable.
with your avatar you should have used despicable. Tsk tsk
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 12, 2016, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 12, 2016, 12:56:47 PM
Clinton is also getting more oil money then trump. It's a weird election when oil is backing the dems over the republicans.

Is there any doubt Clinton will be more pliable to the big business?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 12, 2016, 02:17:13 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2016, 02:13:50 PM
Is there any doubt Clinton will be more pliable to the big business?

I am sure they will both do things favorable to big business. Trump's tax policies were certainly more big business friendly, at least the ones he posted online.

What is your basis for this besides loads of internet chatter? Granted you seem incredulous enough to take whatever the LOLZ people post as gospel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 12, 2016, 02:22:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 12, 2016, 02:17:13 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2016, 02:13:50 PM
Is there any doubt Clinton will be more pliable to the big business?

I am sure they will both do things favorable to big business. Trump's tax policies were certainly more big business friendly, at least the ones he posted online.

What is your basis for this besides loads of internet chatter? Granted you seem incredulous enough to take whatever the LOLZ people post as gospel.

You couldn't help yourself going back to edit in that last sentence, could you?  :lol:

Clintons' livelihood depends on being on good terms with big business donors. Trump's doesn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 12, 2016, 02:32:50 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2016, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 12, 2016, 12:56:47 PM
Clinton is also getting more oil money then trump. It's a weird election when oil is backing the dems over the republicans.

Is there any doubt Clinton will be more pliable to the big business?

A great deal of doubt.  It is true that Hillary has not fucked over as many big businesses as Trump, but those businesses knew that would happen when they partnered with Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 12, 2016, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2016, 02:22:02 PM
Clintons' livelihood depends on being on good terms with big business donors. Trump's doesn't.

Are you making this shit up yourself, or are you reading it from someone else who is making it up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 13, 2016, 01:23:21 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14237721_968016516669309_7553198235394107769_n.jpg?oh=903a447fa9def4438ed9f69da2cb8120&oe=5884E51A)

From a contact of a contact, of course.  :goodboy:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 13, 2016, 01:26:01 PM
Well, they did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 13, 2016, 02:03:13 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2016, 02:13:50 PM
Is there any doubt Clinton will be more pliable to the big business?

There is no doubt whatsoever that the likelihood of the economy crashing under Clinton is lower.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 13, 2016, 03:08:26 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 13, 2016, 01:23:21 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14237721_968016516669309_7553198235394107769_n.jpg?oh=903a447fa9def4438ed9f69da2cb8120&oe=5884E51A)

From a contact of a contact, of course.  :goodboy:
some people would need simple engineering/physics understanding.  Actually, high school physics would be sufficient.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 13, 2016, 03:15:30 PM
I have a M.Sc. in Engineering Physics. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 14, 2016, 11:37:38 AM
this is one is so close to the truth it's hilarious ;)

(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12743787_1985727838319333_537216627536658347_n.jpg?oh=b9dc7d6a8e8be5560c47d380e7494085&oe=587E8E19)

USA: State of emergency
Canada: We've almost reached the Tim guys!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 14, 2016, 11:38:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 13, 2016, 03:15:30 PM
I have a M.Sc. in Engineering Physics. :)
and do you think it's physically impossible that an airplane crashing in a tower and burning with all its fuel damaged the structure to the point upper floors started collapsing in a cascade reaction?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 14, 2016, 11:39:50 AM
Quote from: viper37 on September 14, 2016, 11:38:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 13, 2016, 03:15:30 PM
I have a M.Sc. in Engineering Physics. :)
and do you think it's physically impossible that an airplane crashing in a tower and burning with all its fuel damaged the structure to the point upper floors started collapsing in a cascade reaction?

I want to believe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on September 14, 2016, 11:46:37 AM

Qu'est-ce que le 'Tim'?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 14, 2016, 11:48:34 AM
If the person' a Canadian: A coffee shop.

Edit: Obviously, I didn't see viper's photo but still got it right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 14, 2016, 12:45:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on September 13, 2016, 03:08:26 PM
some people would need simple engineering/physics understanding.  Actually, high school physics would be sufficient.

The fact that people keep explaining this over and over again and somehow they just keep not understanding it leads me to believe the 'Truthers' may not actually care about truth :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 14, 2016, 12:47:45 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 14, 2016, 11:48:34 AM
If the person' a Canadian: A coffee shop.

Ah Tim Hortons. Ok now I get it.

I thought they were driving to the Thames for some reason. I was like 'why are they trying to get to Detroit?'

Probably to escape all that snow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 15, 2016, 03:34:02 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9BoRzxR.jpg&hash=8b668d9c8f9cee78278ca0425613f4b2abee4302)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Archy on September 15, 2016, 05:08:45 AM
AMEN and her children will be reborn the third day in Ye loo as profetised by Hod and his Prophet
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 16, 2016, 06:13:39 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14333042_10157370941460394_6535517781561518185_n.jpg?oh=76af416415eadfe2c441fb54f8a9e726&oe=5877FCE1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 16, 2016, 06:34:40 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 16, 2016, 06:45:52 AM
I saw that. I blocked a friend over this. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 16, 2016, 07:30:22 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14344349_256939644706230_5313477906940160363_n.jpg?oh=a0c0b14b215f01b275064b84751362e0&oe=5872A9FE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 16, 2016, 08:00:55 AM
Breitbart will have a field day with this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 16, 2016, 08:02:13 AM
With yet another phony facebook thing?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 16, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2016, 08:02:13 AM
With yet another phony facebook thing?

They seem to have a field day with a lot of odd things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 16, 2016, 08:20:59 AM
Well if random and obviously phony stuff posted by random people on the internet is what they need to get news they can just make sockpuppets to post fake stuff and then report it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 16, 2016, 08:48:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 16, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2016, 08:02:13 AM
With yet another phony facebook thing?

They seem to have a field day with a lot of odd things.

Maybe we can convince them to have field days in other countries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 16, 2016, 06:27:32 PM
(https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/if-you-cant-handle-me-at-my-worst-you-dont-deserve-my-dank-memes-32-photos-213.jpg?quality=85&strip=info&w=1200)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2016, 05:29:26 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2static2.fjcdn.com%2Fcomments%2FYeah%2Bthats%2Bwhy%2Bi%2Bdon%2Bt%2Bget%2Bthis%2Bwere%2B_084859c3165f9cefe42fb8d5826096ff0.jpg&hash=60f284aa403a75073734a967e87b89150dc5ffcd)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 18, 2016, 02:39:48 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/14292388_745219828949248_4010961207970015393_n.jpg?oh=9197a4a50c6ba6e7b4bf8f3065db40c9&oe=586B74FC&__gda__=1484164333_76a22476e515c65e60975efe102b6411)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on September 18, 2016, 03:17:52 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 18, 2016, 02:39:48 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/14292388_745219828949248_4010961207970015393_n.jpg?oh=9197a4a50c6ba6e7b4bf8f3065db40c9&oe=586B74FC&__gda__=1484164333_76a22476e515c65e60975efe102b6411)

How unusual that an Eastern European should be suggesting that a Jewish business man has 'bought' or owns politicians.   :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 18, 2016, 03:33:30 PM
How do you know he/she is Eastern European?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 18, 2016, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 18, 2016, 03:33:30 PM
How do you know he/she is Eastern European?

I believe Martinus is actually a male.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 18, 2016, 07:57:15 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 18, 2016, 03:33:30 PM
How do you know he/she is Eastern European?

Ze/zir/zirs
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 19, 2016, 12:26:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 18, 2016, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 18, 2016, 03:33:30 PM
How do you know he/she is Eastern European?

I believe Martinus is actually a male.

Did you just assume my gender?  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 19, 2016, 11:04:48 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/14344804_10102545919179353_760202690585766620_n.jpg?oh=ff6a10aafc806950f9ab1b1da86fbe7e&oe=586E5B1F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 19, 2016, 07:10:32 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14316983_1152593904776531_8624739227998471377_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=cd5db72c8759ce8e836288c32a1925f3&oe=58867B54)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 20, 2016, 01:00:40 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/14192194_1026503164129553_4026361894670874500_n.jpg?oh=497e392a0d7a2226262cee337ba3f273&oe=586CA8D4)

QuoteSO.....THERE IT IS IN BLACK.....AND WHITE!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2016, 06:20:23 AM
 :lol:  OK, so they've been doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2016, 10:09:32 AM
What document is that from Syt?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 20, 2016, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2016, 10:09:32 AM
What document is that from Syt?

http://law.justia.com/codes/us/1996/title36/chap10 ?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 20, 2016, 01:50:50 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14322254_340761989595778_7456495754589601213_n.jpg?oh=59225ab39f74b8f7a80b3dea754ff142&oe=583E2500)

Trump or Jill Stein fan(atic) meme?  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2016, 02:25:00 PM
That one made my brain hurt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 20, 2016, 05:14:42 PM
I want a job at the Clinton Foundation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2016, 06:50:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2016, 06:20:23 AM
:lol:  OK, so they've been doing it wrong.

Well, they didn't tell them about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2016, 06:51:42 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 20, 2016, 05:14:42 PM
I want a job at the Clinton Foundation.

Because bumper stickers are always accurate.

I'll bet the benefits suck.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2016, 07:03:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2016, 06:51:42 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 20, 2016, 05:14:42 PM
I want a job at the Clinton Foundation.

Because bumper stickers are always accurate.

I'll bet the benefits suck.

True.  The benefits are worth minus $900,000 per year.  Part time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 21, 2016, 02:02:31 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p296x100/14333822_10154515903921112_1949783475916885223_n.png?oh=7b013fbd3fb37ba15f50be5ca9cfd420&oe=587C8887)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 21, 2016, 02:28:52 PM
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bns_LrXnyyo/V6Kytz4LjuI/AAAAAAAAKMY/ki3EvHsk2_YfEh5Jk7CWQB_eRoqnC4vPwCLcB/s1600/I%2BCan%2BUndestand.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 21, 2016, 02:51:21 PM
I think he'd find his place at the GOP: "Queer and gun lover".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 21, 2016, 03:09:12 PM
As long as he knows the difference between clip and magazine, he can wear whatever makes him feel the prettiest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 21, 2016, 04:40:48 PM
In the show, he did get promoted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 21, 2016, 08:47:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 21, 2016, 04:40:48 PM
In the show, he did get promoted.

Good MASH trivia. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 22, 2016, 06:12:11 AM
My uncle liked an article with the following headline:
QuoteBOOM! Wikileaks Confirms Hillary Sold Weapons To ISIS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 22, 2016, 09:54:58 AM
http://english.almanar.com.lb/34131

There is nothing funny about the story, but somebody should have done a bit more research when picked a photo.

They make the same odd choice in this story. 

http://english.almanar.com.lb/36991
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 22, 2016, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 21, 2016, 08:47:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 21, 2016, 04:40:48 PM
In the show, he did get promoted.

Good MASH trivia. :thumbsup:
His life fell apart in After M*A*S*H. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 22, 2016, 04:43:46 PM
QuoteHis life fell apart in After M*A*S*H.

Ass.

I remember as a kid being excited for that show's premiere episode. Ack, what a mud duck.  Felt so bad for Harry Morgan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 22, 2016, 04:49:54 PM
I've always wanted to see After MASH again.  I briefly remember watching like one episode and yeah, not very interesting.

But there's also an element of "what were they thinking?" about it.  A show set during a war used as a thin allegory for another war, sure.  But a comedy based on the goings-on of a midwestern hospital in the 1950s?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 22, 2016, 04:53:27 PM
What's wrong with that idea? Scrubs was great.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 22, 2016, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 22, 2016, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 21, 2016, 08:47:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 21, 2016, 04:40:48 PM
In the show, he did get promoted.

Good MASH trivia. :thumbsup:
His life fell apart in After M*A*S*H.

Well, none of them were that much on the ball.  I mean, they were fighting a war for eleven years that ended in three.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 22, 2016, 05:57:22 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on September 22, 2016, 06:40:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 22, 2016, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 22, 2016, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 21, 2016, 08:47:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 21, 2016, 04:40:48 PM
In the show, he did get promoted.

Good MASH trivia. :thumbsup:
His life fell apart in After M*A*S*H.

Well, none of them were that much on the ball.  I mean, they were fighting a war for eleven years that ended in three.

The same could be said of postings of more than a few Languishites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 22, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 22, 2016, 04:53:27 PM
What's wrong with that idea? Scrubs was great.

Scrubs was great.   :lol:

IIRC, AfterM*A*S*H didn't even have a laugh track.  Or that much in the way of jokes.  It really was Harry Morgan's vehicle:  of all the M*A*S*H cast, he was the one that wanted to keep going--and he took everybody else on the cast that wasn't burned out or did not have a realistic chance for survival with him.  Because you simply can't be a Special Guest Star on The Love Boat every week.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 22, 2016, 07:18:18 PM
My Latin teacher was a MASH fanatic and had a MASH trivia game in the classroom.  You got extra points if you got MASH questions correct.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 22, 2016, 10:40:33 PM
I have to say I was never a huge MASH fan.  Only watched it in syndication.  A few episodes were entertaining but overall I just never got the appeal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 22, 2016, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on September 22, 2016, 10:40:33 PM
I have to say I was never a huge MASH fan.  Only watched it in syndication.  A few episodes were entertaining but overall I just never got the appeal.

Extra credit in Latin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 22, 2016, 10:56:24 PM
Trapper John, MD was the far better quasi spin off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 22, 2016, 11:53:52 PM
It suffers from too much Alan Alda.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2016, 02:11:24 AM
My middle sister is currently in full on "rampaging hordes of Muslims are stampeding on a Djihad through Europe and threaten America" mode, sharing all kinds of "real truth" stories and videos from alternative news sources that bring you all the truth the mainstream media censors keep from you. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on September 23, 2016, 04:01:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 23, 2016, 02:11:24 AM
My middle sister is currently in full on "rampaging hordes of Muslims are stampeding on a Djihad through Europe and threaten America" mode, sharing all kinds of "real truth" stories and videos from alternative news sources that bring you all the truth the mainstream media censors keep from you. :bleeding:

Pics or it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2016, 04:05:27 AM
I've blocked the "news" pages in question to stop the inundation :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 23, 2016, 08:58:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 23, 2016, 04:05:27 AM
I've blocked the "news" pages in question to stop the inundation :blush:

I think he just wants pics of your sister.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2016, 09:06:30 AM
Well, here's a 1 hour video she linked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv05D3Yeg_k&feature=youtu.be

ISLAM IN EUROPE AND USA SHOCKING MUST WATCH اسلام امریکا و اروپا
EUROPE'S POPULATION DECLINE AND IMMIGRATION POLICY....WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 23, 2016, 09:15:09 AM
Gave a look over it.  Whoever made it is guilty of Copywrite infringement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on September 23, 2016, 09:35:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 23, 2016, 08:58:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 23, 2016, 04:05:27 AM
I've blocked the "news" pages in question to stop the inundation :blush:

I think he just wants pics of your sister.

:lol:
I'm not sure, she sounds scary
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 23, 2016, 10:41:06 AM
As my sister is having a substantial nervous breakdown over the possibility of a Trump presidency, I believe she's killed some of her Facebook feeds, which is why I told her never get involved in social media in the first place.

WHATS SO SOCIAL ABOUT MEDIA ANYWAY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on September 23, 2016, 10:54:44 AM
Seriously.

"We just got married!"

"We had a baby!"

"Here's me graduating from my Ph.D. program!"

"Honeymoon pics!"

OMG, I got a clerkship!"

"lol, celebrating with work friends from Goldman Sachs"


FUCK. YOU.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 23, 2016, 11:13:51 AM
I graduated from high school to get away from those assholes.  I don't need to see pics of their asshole kids.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 02:02:08 PM
I have strict rules on posting pictures of offspring on Facebook. Three strikes and you're out (or rather, unfollowed).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 23, 2016, 02:04:03 PM
The only pics of kids I allow on Facebook are cats.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 02:05:20 PM
Sorry folks the entire point of facebook is to post pics of my kids.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 02:06:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 02:05:20 PM
Sorry folks the entire point of facebook is to post pics of my kids.

And if we were friends, you'd be none the wiser that I unfollowed you.  :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 02:07:39 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 02:06:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 02:05:20 PM
Sorry folks the entire point of facebook is to post pics of my kids.

And if we were friends, you'd be none the wiser that I unfollowed you.  :hug:

Hey I am not even offended. But what the hell else am I supposed to post there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 02:08:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 02:07:39 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 02:06:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 02:05:20 PM
Sorry folks the entire point of facebook is to post pics of my kids.

And if we were friends, you'd be none the wiser that I unfollowed you.  :hug:

Hey I am not even offended. But what the hell else am I supposed to post there?

I use it mostly to keep track of friends around the globe. Personally I almost never post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 23, 2016, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 02:05:20 PM
Sorry folks the entire point of facebook is to post pics of my kids.

:yes:

Should be lots of pics this weekend from Timmy's first hockey try-out!

Hamilcar - if you hurry and friend me, I'll see if I can hit my three strikes by the end of the weekend!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 23, 2016, 02:13:16 PM
I use it to keep abreast of developments of various topics of interest that I follow (mainly through groups and pages). Or to express my indignation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 23, 2016, 06:24:04 PM
I'm sorta amused by the "Taylor Swift for fascist Europe" account.

And sorta turned on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 23, 2016, 06:41:33 PM
It seemed a bit repetitive to me.  And it seems like twice as many American troops were killed on MASH than were actually killed in Korea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 23, 2016, 08:30:09 PM
Some of the nurses Hawkeye banged were very hott.  There was one short haired brunette in particular who killed me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on September 23, 2016, 09:13:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 23, 2016, 08:30:09 PM
Some of the nurses Hawkeye banged were very hott.  There was one short haired brunette in particular who killed me.

Margie Cutler (Marcia Strassman) ?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mash4077tv.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fstrassman_lightweight.jpg&hash=a6d04c93d58ccd2d31d88d1a7a3eab1a70a541c4)

http://www.mash4077tv.com/features/nurses_recurring/ (http://www.mash4077tv.com/features/nurses_recurring/)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 23, 2016, 11:54:57 PM
Killer theme song. Lyrics by Altman's 14yo son

Through early morning fog I see
Visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...
[REFRAIN]:
That suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.
I try to find a way to make
All our little joys relate
Without that ever-present hate
But now I know that it's too late, and...
[REFRAIN]
The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
So this is all I have to say.
[REFRAIN]
The only way to win is cheat
And lay it down before I'm beat
And to another give my seat
For that's the only painless feat.
[REFRAIN]
The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 24, 2016, 12:00:04 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 23, 2016, 06:41:33 PM
And it seems like twice as many American troops were killed on MASH than were actually killed in Korea.

Not surprising if you consider that the show ran for much longer than the war lasted.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 24, 2016, 12:49:41 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/14457422_1127825837266292_2262305470226844776_n.jpg?oh=57150ffc7e28831ad33ca1d4b153781e&oe=5876DA43&__gda__=1480109763_1f999d1c1e074e296fa73c07309f0265)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 24, 2016, 01:26:50 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 23, 2016, 09:13:27 PM
Margie Cutler (Marcia Strassman) ?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mash4077tv.com%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fstrassman_lightweight.jpg&hash=a6d04c93d58ccd2d31d88d1a7a3eab1a70a541c4)

http://www.mash4077tv.com/features/nurses_recurring/ (http://www.mash4077tv.com/features/nurses_recurring/)

Nice fucking work mongers. :cheers:

RE SPEC brada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:27:58 AM
Some Bernie Bro on my Facebook:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/14344846_1260730080692279_4138318305048179323_n.jpg?oh=1c955a5ae50dc2713938aa8cffe04aec&oe=587880E6&__gda__=1484880857_d92aa79e2d416734ce58cd056f91cd6e)

I don't suppose "I guess whatever the Israelis are doing to their Muslims works!" was the answer he was looking for.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 24, 2016, 11:33:34 AM
How come they don't?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2016, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:27:58 AM
Some Bernie Bro on my Facebook:

:lol: I love how your average douchebag Silicon Valley software dev Gamersgate antisemitic woman-haters managed to get themselves categorized under Bernie's name.  It's actually brilliant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2016, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 24, 2016, 11:33:34 AM
How come they don't?

They're busy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:45:34 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 24, 2016, 11:33:34 AM
How come they don't?

I think my answer is actually true. Israel doesn't care about being "racially fair" in its profiling, or about the backlash from punitive airstrikes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:46:20 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2016, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:27:58 AM
Some Bernie Bro on my Facebook:

:lol: I love how your average douchebag Silicon Valley software dev Gamersgate antisemitic woman-haters managed to get themselves categorized under Bernie's name.  It's actually brilliant.

The guy who posted it is super SJW feminist anticapitalist type.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2016, 11:52:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:46:20 AM
The guy who posted it is super SJW feminist anticapitalist type.

If he's European, he hates Jews anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 24, 2016, 12:10:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:45:34 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 24, 2016, 11:33:34 AM
How come they don't?

I think my answer is actually true. Israel doesn't care about being "racially fair" in its profiling, or about the backlash from punitive airstrikes.

Why have all Hamas rocket attacks failed to hit the US?  Is it because of the effectiveness of the US missile defense scheme?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 24, 2016, 12:12:22 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:46:20 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2016, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:27:58 AM
Some Bernie Bro on my Facebook:

:lol: I love how your average douchebag Silicon Valley software dev Gamersgate antisemitic woman-haters managed to get themselves categorized under Bernie's name.  It's actually brilliant.

The guy who posted it is super SJW feminist anticapitalist type.

Who would have guessed you have anti-Semitic friends?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 12:31:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2016, 11:52:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 11:46:20 AM
The guy who posted it is super SJW feminist anticapitalist type.

If he's European, he hates Jews anyway.

He is American.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2016, 12:55:18 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 12:31:13 PM
He is American.

Obviously still hates Jews. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 24, 2016, 01:31:17 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2016, 12:55:18 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 24, 2016, 12:31:13 PM
He is American.

Obviously still hates Jews.

8% of Americans are anti-semitic.  Marty has managed to friend half of them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 25, 2016, 10:27:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14370427_555386311324039_6845315218487619776_n.jpg?oh=88a72752820f0850d2731d747d66aa1c&oe=586C4A4A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 25, 2016, 11:14:36 AM
Lol "If only those people would do what they are told"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 25, 2016, 11:52:10 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 24, 2016, 11:33:34 AM
How come they don't?

The Arab "street" has two quite contradictory theories (that, in our new fact-free age, get bounced around the 'net): (1) ISIS is scared of the Israelis, in a way it isn't scared of the US or Euros: see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-israel-is-the-only-country-terrorist-group-fears-says-first-western-journalist-to-survive-a6793876.html ; or (2) ISIS is really a creation of Israel, designed to fuck the Arabs up! (numerous cites to this silly theory exist).

Serious answer? ISIS has certainly *threatened* to destroy Israel (absolute par for the course for any radical Muslim or Arab group), but hasn't yet actually launched an attack on Israel. Why, no-one knows; perhaps it is merely a matter of convenience: ISIS attacks in Europe depend on having existing ISIS members there, and there a lot less likely candidates in Israel: those likely to be attracted to ISIS are more likely to already be members of Hamas.

Hamas is certainly wary of ISIS. Hamas appears to worry that ISIS will do unto it, as Hamas did unto Fatah; namely, become more popular (because of being more radical), and "hone in" on its territory. That could explain why ISIS is active in Sinai, but not in Gaza.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/An-unlikely-trio-Israel-Hamas-and-Egypt-reportedly-form-alliance-to-fight-ISIS-in-Sinai-452779
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 25, 2016, 12:07:10 PM
Looking at your link, Malthus, I came across what looks to be a most ridiculous terrorist:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.news.de%2Fimages%2Fjuergen-todenhoefer-mossul-christian-emde_856140388_800x600_27f1bc98c0f1a38de40ba59287f781a1.jpg%3Fimages%2Fe8%2Fae%2F70e48ce5193d6434e95b1fe4b1b8.jpg%2Cnopic%2Fno_pic.jpg%2C800%2C600%2C%2C1%2C436%2C74%2C588%2C441%2C%2C&hash=f21a594b3fc491894c7c511588f7dd510cc1f460)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 25, 2016, 12:12:02 PM
Is that a hipster.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 25, 2016, 12:18:25 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.duffelblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F02%2FHipster_in_front_of_former_Mass_Ave_surface_station_October_2010-1000x600.jpg&hash=3742902ee6c05e49a5288984c57ca318857c4541)

Quote

KABUL — Young Afghan hipster Hesh Gul is making a name for himself in Kabul with his locally-sourced artisan bombs.

"Those big Pakistani bomb factories use their mass-produced fireworks to try to put the little guys like me out of business," Gul commented as he rolled out a fresh batch of homemade explosives. "They may have started small like we did here at Improvised Explosive Delights, but they've really sold out. Their bombs have no heart."

The IED facilities are located in a newly-gentrified section of Hesh's village next to a Hole Foods outside of Kabul.

"I don't deliver by goat because it's faster," Gul said, adjusting his horn-rimmed glasses."I do it because it's better."

http://www.duffelblog.com/2016/02/afghan-hipster-crafts-locally-sourced-artisan-bombs/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 25, 2016, 12:50:50 PM
Duffleblog: the Glenn from Raising Arizona of internet humor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on September 25, 2016, 02:41:53 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtOKr_OXEAExpMh.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2016, 02:45:55 PM
 :frusty:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 25, 2016, 02:53:21 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 25, 2016, 11:14:36 AM
Lol "If only those people would do what they are told"

Not to forget:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/14449778_557376947791642_9078093534056704668_n.jpg?oh=b1189f2279105b459d566c484ad09830&oe=5883D961)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on September 25, 2016, 03:06:56 PM
Quote from: Liep on September 25, 2016, 02:41:53 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtOKr_OXEAExpMh.jpg)
Being a celebrity must be bizarre.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on September 25, 2016, 06:23:19 PM
On the plus side, it must make the job of the secret service a lot easier.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 25, 2016, 08:22:44 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJWGMm59.jpg&hash=27eb9d60c875ace02f47e72c2a1117aaf00576c4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 26, 2016, 12:21:09 AM
To add to zanza's post

(https://i.redd.it/ruq1uv2epqnx.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on September 26, 2016, 12:26:28 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 26, 2016, 08:13:36 AM
jesus, that is just soul crushing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 26, 2016, 08:23:44 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 26, 2016, 08:13:36 AM
jesus, that is just soul crushing.

*shrugs*

If one has a fragile soul. Personally, I don't really care. Looks dumb but it is no skin off my back.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on September 26, 2016, 12:22:20 PM
Posterity will have a field day with this.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 26, 2016, 12:42:23 PM
Quote from: Maladict on September 26, 2016, 12:22:20 PM
Posterity will have a field day with this.  :(

:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 26, 2016, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 26, 2016, 08:13:36 AM
jesus, that is just soul crushing.

Meh...He'd get the same treatment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 27, 2016, 05:15:51 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/14463129_1148156568600043_476242991771803954_n.jpg?oh=3bc8db5f8330f06fe2d6ae0cfcf485e3&oe=586BF80E&__gda__=1484178898_7d4d566c302d512b18be67ca3099374b)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 27, 2016, 05:26:35 PM
I'd agree that's unfair.  Is it true?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 27, 2016, 06:37:11 PM
Benghazi:  4 years, 8 investigations, 33 hearings, $7 million and counting, an 800 page report.  Longer and costlier than Watergate.  And still, nothing uncovered about a coverup.  Only the Clintons could get away with something so sinister.
email coverup:  the FBI investigation is concluded.  Nothing warranting criminal charges.
Pay for Play:  Play for what?
the Clinton Foundation: OK. :mellow:

If anything, Lester Holt gave Trump all the room in the world to clarify his positions.  He chose not to.
 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2016, 02:48:42 AM
My oldest sister posted this on her wall last week or so:

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--z63atDrPkU/V7TD0Aeh7dI/AAAAAAAATg8/SopqTBLAAD8iEOw7vE1Yy0CEnSKVTyBWACLcB/s1600/unnamed%2B%25282%2529.jpg)

It took me 20 or so seconds to find the Snopes page explaining that this is a border fence between Israel and Egypt, and that no fence like this exists between Mexico and Guatemala, and I posted link and explanation beneath the picture. She replied that she had realized that herself shortly after posting it (I didn't inquire why she didn't remove the post, then).

This morning, her husband posts the exact same picture (linked from the Facebook page "Nation in Distress" - https://www.facebook.com/NationInDistress/?pnref=story). :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 28, 2016, 04:00:15 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2016, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 02:05:20 PM
Sorry folks the entire point of facebook is to post pics of my kids.

:yes:

Should be lots of pics this weekend from Timmy's first hockey try-out!

Hamilcar - if you hurry and friend me, I'll see if I can hit my three strikes by the end of the weekend!

Kids are going to so hate their parents for this.

Can you imagine growing up with a publicly accessible extensive pictural archive of your entire life, made by your parents?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on September 28, 2016, 04:20:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 02:48:42 AM
My oldest sister posted this on her wall last week or so:

It took me 20 or so seconds to find the Snopes page explaining that this is a border fence between Israel and Egypt, and that no fence like this exists between Mexico and Guatemala, and I posted link and explanation beneath the picture. She replied that she had realized that herself shortly after posting it (I didn't inquire why she didn't remove the post, then).

This morning, her husband posts the exact same picture (linked from the Facebook page "Nation in Distress" - https://www.facebook.com/NationInDistress/?pnref=story). :bleeding:
The GDR also had the right to build an anti-fascist protection wall!  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 06:38:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 02:48:42 AM
It took me 20 or so seconds to find the Snopes page explaining that this is a border fence between Israel and Egypt, and that no fence like this exists between Mexico and Guatemala, and I posted link and explanation beneath the picture. She replied that she had realized that herself shortly after posting it (I didn't inquire why she didn't remove the post, then).

I didn't know the United States didn't have the same right as Mexico to protect its border.  What court ruling was that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 28, 2016, 06:46:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 28, 2016, 04:00:15 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2016, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2016, 02:05:20 PM
Sorry folks the entire point of facebook is to post pics of my kids.

:yes:

Should be lots of pics this weekend from Timmy's first hockey try-out!

Hamilcar - if you hurry and friend me, I'll see if I can hit my three strikes by the end of the weekend!

Kids are going to so hate their parents for this.

Can you imagine growing up with a publicly accessible extensive pictural archive of your entire life, made by your parents?

Someone in Austria recently sued their parents because they refused to take down embarrassing baby pictures.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2016, 06:53:33 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 28, 2016, 06:46:36 AM
Someone in Austria recently sued their parents because they refused to take down embarrassing baby pictures.

Has this been substantiated?

An Austrian fact checker's site says (status 16th Sep) that the law office quoted in the original article by an Austrian tabloid replied they're not involved in any case like this and that the paper only asked some general questions about the rights of kids vs their parents and online photos.

The paper didn't mention the name of the woman now supposedly suing, and therefore the veracity of the article couldn't be conclusively confirmed or denied.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 28, 2016, 06:56:58 AM
You must be great at parties <_<


:P guess it's not a real story then. Won't be surprised if it happens in the future. Facebook is what, 12 years old? The first crop of kids who were born and spent all their lives documented in Facebook are becoming adults soon. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2016, 06:58:39 AM
Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure court cases like this will pop up in the not so distant future.

Speaking of great parent-child relationships, my middle sister linked an article over the weekend that stated that it's ok to cut off contact with toxic parents. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 07:10:13 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 28, 2016, 04:00:15 AM
Kids are going to so hate their parents for this.

Can you imagine growing up with a publicly accessible extensive pictural archive of your entire life, made by your parents?

I am a parent. Every asshole with an opinion is sure I am committing child abuse with every innocuous thing I do. Example # 4 billion :P

If he is really all that embarrassed he played Pokemon Go as a kid I will take it down. Of course since most adults were playing it at the time I have my doubts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2016, 07:11:27 AM
Well, it seems rather reckless, unresponsible, and abusive to raise children in Texas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 28, 2016, 07:21:44 AM
Children are easily embarrassed. It's the reason parents used to keep baby pics in albums, so that they could use it to embarrass kids being showing their dates and friends :D

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 07:23:42 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 07:11:27 AM
Well, it seems rather reckless, unresponsible, and abusive to raise children in Texas.

They should be grateful they were not raised in Florida.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on September 28, 2016, 07:28:44 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 28, 2016, 07:21:44 AM
Children are easily embarrassed. It's the reason parents used to keep baby pics in albums, so that they could use it to embarrass kids being showing their dates and friends :D



In a way it's better today because now no one actually looks at the pictures. And I'm sure Facebook will soon release a filter that can sort out pictures of babies, memes, or other stuff you usually just scroll past.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2016, 07:31:04 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 07:23:42 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 07:11:27 AM
Well, it seems rather reckless, unresponsible, and abusive to raise children in Texas.

They should be grateful they were not raised in Florida.

"If you don't behave we move to Florida!" :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 28, 2016, 08:25:37 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 07:10:13 AM
If he is really all that embarrassed he played Pokemon Go as a kid I will take it down. Of course since most adults were playing it at the time I have my doubts.

Adults happily wore hammer pants at one time too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 08:27:43 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 28, 2016, 08:25:37 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 07:10:13 AM
If he is really all that embarrassed he played Pokemon Go as a kid I will take it down. Of course since most adults were playing it at the time I have my doubts.

Adults happily wore hammer pants at one time too.

Well when I get sentenced to prison for brutal child abuse I will tell the judge that I regret nothing. NOTHING!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 28, 2016, 08:29:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 08:27:43 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 28, 2016, 08:25:37 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 07:10:13 AM
If he is really all that embarrassed he played Pokemon Go as a kid I will take it down. Of course since most adults were playing it at the time I have my doubts.

Adults happily wore hammer pants at one time too.

Well when I get sentenced to prison for brutal child abuse I will tell the judge that I regret nothing. NOTHING!

At least until they waterboard you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 28, 2016, 08:30:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 07:10:13 AM

I am a parent. Every asshole with an opinion is sure I am committing child abuse with every innocuous thing I do.

Ain't that the truth.  :lol:

It's a bit of a shock to discover, as a new parent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 28, 2016, 08:32:03 AM
This morning, I gave my child a juice box as part of her morning snack. I am sure I am going to hear about it in a negative light.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 28, 2016, 08:46:55 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 28, 2016, 08:32:03 AM
This morning, I gave my child a juice box as part of her morning snack. I am sure I am going to hear about it in a negative light.

Monster.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2016, 09:01:45 AM
I make a point of not questioning someone's parenting, except behind their backs. :goodboy:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 10:08:13 AM
So this black kid goes to the Charlotte city council and gives this heartfelt plea for black people to be treated fairly and with civility in the US. Fairly moving. And, you know, hardly controversial.

Meanwhile on the Facebook we have shitloads of people angry that the evil black people coached and manipulated this kid to do this.

Oh FFS. We really are fucked aren't we? If we cannot even get behind this shit I don't even know what to think.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 28, 2016, 10:26:31 AM
(https://i.redd.it/dk4lms6vtzhx.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on September 28, 2016, 11:12:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 10:08:13 AM
So this black kid goes to the Charlotte city council and gives this heartfelt plea for black people to be treated fairly and with civility in the US. Fairly moving. And, you know, hardly controversial.

Meanwhile on the Facebook we have shitloads of people angry that the evil black people coached and manipulated this kid to do this.

Oh FFS. We really are fucked aren't we? If we cannot even get behind this shit I don't even know what to think.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but my first thought upon seeing that speech was "man, it's fucked up that that kid has had to grow up that much that fast."  My second thought was, "on second thought, that kid was awful articulate for a 9-year-old."  Definitely some help and coaching there, but I'd suspect the kid was just helped with the speech, not fed the talking points.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 11:42:33 AM
Kids go before city councils, school boards, cointy zoning hearings, and state legislature committees and subcommittees all the time.   They're public hearings.  Hell, even I did it as a Cub Scout for a wetlands bill.  #MeritBadgeNailedIt #DucksLivesMatter
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2016, 10:08:13 AM
Meanwhile on the Facebook we have shitloads of people angry that the evil black people coached and manipulated this kid to do this.

Oh FFS. We really are fucked aren't we? If we cannot even get behind this shit I don't even know what to think.

If only they would stop complaining.  #WhatAboutWhiteHistoryMonth
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on September 28, 2016, 11:50:56 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 11:42:33 AM
Kids go before city councils, school boards, cointy zoning hearings, and state legislature committees and subcommittees all the time.   They're public hearings.  Hell, even I did it as a Cub Scout for a wetlands bill.  #MeritBadgeNailedIt #DucksLivesMatter

Oh, sure.  Just saying that the level of articulation seemed abnormally high, so there was some probably some adult proofreading going on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 28, 2016, 12:01:51 PM
The kid is very well spoken.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 01:05:13 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 28, 2016, 11:50:56 AM
Oh, sure.  Just saying that the level of articulation seemed abnormally high, so there was some probably some adult proofreading going on.

Yeah, absolutely no way a black kid could ever do that on her own. They should look into that, macht schnell.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on September 28, 2016, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 28, 2016, 08:46:55 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 28, 2016, 08:32:03 AM
This morning, I gave my child a juice box as part of her morning snack. I am sure I am going to hear about it in a negative light.

Monster.

Yeah, GF, why don't you just take your kids out back and beat the crap out of them?  It would be the same result and cheaper.   :mad:



;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 29, 2016, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 28, 2016, 08:32:03 AM
This morning, I gave my child a juice box as part of her morning snack. I am sure I am going to hear about it in a negative light.
sugar??  You give sugar to your kid???
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 29, 2016, 09:43:36 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 28, 2016, 12:01:51 PM
The kid is very well spoken.

Probably because his mind had not ben rotted by juice from juice boxes.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 29, 2016, 01:25:03 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 11:42:33 AM
Kids go before city councils, school boards, cointy zoning hearings, and state legislature committees and subcommittees all the time.   They're public hearings.  Hell, even I did it as a Cub Scout for a wetlands bill.  #MeritBadgeNailedIt #DucksLivesMatter

Good lessons for a kid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 29, 2016, 01:26:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 06:38:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 02:48:42 AM
It took me 20 or so seconds to find the Snopes page explaining that this is a border fence between Israel and Egypt, and that no fence like this exists between Mexico and Guatemala, and I posted link and explanation beneath the picture. She replied that she had realized that herself shortly after posting it (I didn't inquire why she didn't remove the post, then).

I didn't know the United States didn't have the same right as Mexico to protect its border.  What court ruling was that?

Elder's of Zion V Clark County Zoning Board.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 29, 2016, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 29, 2016, 01:26:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 06:38:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 02:48:42 AM
It took me 20 or so seconds to find the Snopes page explaining that this is a border fence between Israel and Egypt, and that no fence like this exists between Mexico and Guatemala, and I posted link and explanation beneath the picture. She replied that she had realized that herself shortly after posting it (I didn't inquire why she didn't remove the post, then).

I didn't know the United States didn't have the same right as Mexico to protect its border.  What court ruling was that?

Elder's of Zion V Clark County Zoning Board.

Your use of an apostrophe makes baby Jesus cry.  :P

On a side note - I've actually been to the border of Mexico and Guatemala, and I can confirm: no fence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 29, 2016, 01:48:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 29, 2016, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 29, 2016, 01:26:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 06:38:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 02:48:42 AM
It took me 20 or so seconds to find the Snopes page explaining that this is a border fence between Israel and Egypt, and that no fence like this exists between Mexico and Guatemala, and I posted link and explanation beneath the picture. She replied that she had realized that herself shortly after posting it (I didn't inquire why she didn't remove the post, then).

I didn't know the United States didn't have the same right as Mexico to protect its border.  What court ruling was that?

Elder's of Zion V Clark County Zoning Board.

Your use of an apostrophe makes baby Jesus cry.  :P

On a side note - I've actually been to the border of Mexico and Guatemala, and I can confirm: no fence.

What were you trying to move?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 29, 2016, 01:50:18 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 29, 2016, 01:48:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 29, 2016, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 29, 2016, 01:26:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 06:38:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 02:48:42 AM
It took me 20 or so seconds to find the Snopes page explaining that this is a border fence between Israel and Egypt, and that no fence like this exists between Mexico and Guatemala, and I posted link and explanation beneath the picture. She replied that she had realized that herself shortly after posting it (I didn't inquire why she didn't remove the post, then).

I didn't know the United States didn't have the same right as Mexico to protect its border.  What court ruling was that?

Elder's of Zion V Clark County Zoning Board.

Your use of an apostrophe makes baby Jesus cry.  :P

On a side note - I've actually been to the border of Mexico and Guatemala, and I can confirm: no fence.

What were you trying to move?

A fence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 29, 2016, 02:02:28 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 29, 2016, 01:48:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 29, 2016, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 29, 2016, 01:26:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2016, 06:38:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2016, 02:48:42 AM
It took me 20 or so seconds to find the Snopes page explaining that this is a border fence between Israel and Egypt, and that no fence like this exists between Mexico and Guatemala, and I posted link and explanation beneath the picture. She replied that she had realized that herself shortly after posting it (I didn't inquire why she didn't remove the post, then).

I didn't know the United States didn't have the same right as Mexico to protect its border.  What court ruling was that?

Elder's of Zion V Clark County Zoning Board.

Your use of an apostrophe makes baby Jesus cry.  :P

On a side note - I've actually been to the border of Mexico and Guatemala, and I can confirm: no fence.

What were you trying to move?

Here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK58-yYpyR8
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 01, 2016, 01:20:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14238206_1307211859303572_6215338405399981251_n.jpg?oh=b3ff39b5abf030e9dc891eb35a0f4dbb&oe=58AD3E1F)

Also, this:

http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/why-no-one-respects-obama-summed-up-with-4-brutal-pictures?utm_source=DC&utm_medium=DC&utm_campaign=DC

QuoteWhy No One Respects Obama Summed Up With 4 Brutal Pictures

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F05%2Fimageedit_1553_3305157847.jpg&hash=2d0aea960f69195a5d1a0fd049c2a44688e90ff3)

V. Saxena reports President Barack Obama must be auditioning to be on the next episode of "Presidents Say The Darnedest Things," because he recently said something so stupid that it defies comprehension.

The Daily Caller reported that Obama claimed during an interview with news station WMUR that GOP presidential front-runner Donald Trump lacks the qualities needed to be an effective president.

"I think that [Trump] is not somebody who, even within the Republican party, can be considered equipped to deal with the problems of this office," he quipped.

Said the former community organizer turned president who used to spend his days frequenting the church of racist Rev. Jeremiah Wright and handing out fliers on the still-violent streets of Chicago, Illinois.

Cue Breitbart, which published the following critic of Obama during the 2012 election:

One cannot deny and must also accept and acknowledge that Obama was a man who had only run the Harvard Law Review for a short time, was an Illinois state senator with no considerable accomplishments, and was only a two year US senator with no considerable accomplishment. He was totally unqualified to tackle the very serious challenges our country faced with regards to the economy, or anything else for that matter.

Obama "earned" his presidency via only two factors: his race, and his "hope and change" rhetoric, which unfortunately managed to fool many.

Granted, Trump's "Make America Great" slogan sounds eerily similar, but as a reminder, Trump has a solid history of success in business. He also possesses a great deal of experience dealing with foreign leaders and dignitaries.

Our current president instead waltzed into the White House with nothing but years of Marxist indoctrination, courtesy the likes of Bill Ayers and Saul Alinsky, among others.
Yet he thinks Trump lacks presidential qualifications?

Wow ...

Presidents really do say the darnedest things, don't they?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 01, 2016, 12:35:36 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/13680919_1155867351100731_6199188016118103534_n.jpg?oh=11292888a04f2d241d1e709d707057e0&oe=58AE1E12&__gda__=1483826987_f2f0f29d3514a9b70e23f59d683f974c)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 01, 2016, 12:39:02 PM
Stupid is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 01, 2016, 01:11:41 PM
That's awful.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 01, 2016, 01:23:38 PM
You're telling me  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on October 01, 2016, 01:29:41 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 01, 2016, 01:38:42 PM
I don't think Hillaryhaters even know what they're talking about anymore. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 01, 2016, 02:29:29 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 01, 2016, 01:38:42 PM
I don't think Hillaryhaters even know what they're talking about anymore. 

Especially since the deleted tape was like one factor in 1,000 that forced Nixon to resign.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on October 01, 2016, 03:14:26 PM
So I inadvertently logged into an old facebook account and looking around came across the posts of an acquaintance of mine, haven't seen her in a couple of years, she's not stood still, but moved on; she used to believe in stuff like Chemtrails, reposting stuff on FB, no longer, now she posts about regaling fellow bus users with the dangers when she sees chemtrails out of the windows. :bleeding:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 01, 2016, 03:15:55 PM
Somebody's gotta do it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on October 01, 2016, 03:21:41 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 01, 2016, 03:15:55 PM
Somebody's gotta do it.

Bleed social media insanity into real life (of others) ?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 01, 2016, 04:08:30 PM
No, I meant being on the lookout for chemtrails.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 01, 2016, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2016, 12:39:02 PM
Stupid is.

Sally Field should be ashamed of herself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 03, 2016, 01:27:22 PM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14494691_10154561237997505_1032694818567579311_n.jpg?oh=daf118dce5109f23a2016d9b813896b4&oe=5877D41C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 04, 2016, 06:57:37 AM
My sister shared a post by Franklin Graham (who's he?) that linked a USA Today story.

Quote from: Franklin GrahamThe media keep talking about it, but to be honest with you, nobody gives a rip about Donald J. Trump's taxes. What people do care about is their own taxes. And when I read about the government spending $8.4 million of taxpayers' money a year—starting today—for things like gender reassignment and hormone therapy for military personnel, I'm disgusted! Aren't you? This is the kind of immoral garbage President Obama and his administration are allowing to be put in place in our country. $8.4 million a year—with all the things our military needs—can you believe that? Things like this need to be stopped. It just shows you how morally warped our politicians have become.

:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2016, 07:01:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 04, 2016, 06:57:37 AM
My sister shared a post by Franklin Graham (who's he?) that linked a USA Today story.

Quote from: Franklin GrahamThe media keep talking about it, but to be honest with you, nobody gives a rip about Donald J. Trump's taxes. What people do care about is their own taxes. And when I read about the government spending $8.4 million of taxpayers' money a year—starting today—for things like gender reassignment and hormone therapy for military personnel, I'm disgusted! Aren't you? This is the kind of immoral garbage President Obama and his administration are allowing to be put in place in our country. $8.4 million a year—with all the things our military needs—can you believe that? Things like this need to be stopped. It just shows you how morally warped our politicians have become.

:huh:

A reverend who said that if you just follow police instructions then you won't get shot.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/franklin-grahams-advice-americans-stopped-by-police-follow-their-instructions-170081/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 04, 2016, 07:02:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2016, 07:01:06 AM
A reverend who said that if you just follow police instructions then you won't get shot.

Well, that chimes with her usual posts about police shooting unarmed people hardened criminals. Not breaking the law prevents you from being shot, apparently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 04, 2016, 10:47:07 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14570332_1387994331229008_6119668539570559615_n.jpg?oh=4581c27c89d1db1ca88fb074d2090224&oe=58A978AD)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: lustindarkness on October 04, 2016, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 04, 2016, 10:47:07 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14570332_1387994331229008_6119668539570559615_n.jpg?oh=4581c27c89d1db1ca88fb074d2090224&oe=58A978AD)

Wait,  was that posted by a flat earther?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 04, 2016, 12:54:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 04, 2016, 10:47:07 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14570332_1387994331229008_6119668539570559615_n.jpg?oh=4581c27c89d1db1ca88fb074d2090224&oe=58A978AD)

I'm floored.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2016, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 04, 2016, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 04, 2016, 10:47:07 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14570332_1387994331229008_6119668539570559615_n.jpg?oh=4581c27c89d1db1ca88fb074d2090224&oe=58A978AD)

Wait,  was that posted by a flat earther?

Classic circular argument.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 04, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/14432989_10154997757611840_3561336531733380602_n.jpg?oh=6a4485429c08002140a4c2e7eac6539c&oe=58A7111A&__gda__=1487168223_87641a3d59cab7e20e4d2d5e9161715e)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2016, 04:02:48 PM
I don't get it...:(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2016, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2016, 04:02:48 PM
I don't get it...:(

Really?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2016, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2016, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2016, 04:02:48 PM
I don't get it...:(

Really?

Is Vladislav - what is love?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2016, 04:11:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2016, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 04, 2016, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2016, 04:02:48 PM
I don't get it...:(

Really?

Is Vladislav - what is love?

Yes. Both are pronounced similarly. Don't get me wrong - I didnt think it was very good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on October 04, 2016, 04:45:33 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14225387_1839499159628323_7490230212181880892_n.jpg?oh=fe30c5a86ed82f3e0027744c6ac96d66&oe=586E8DD0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2016, 06:21:57 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 04, 2016, 04:45:33 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14225387_1839499159628323_7490230212181880892_n.jpg?oh=fe30c5a86ed82f3e0027744c6ac96d66&oe=586E8DD0)

Now that's an epic troll!  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 04, 2016, 08:07:36 PM
They had to be drunk or texting, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 05, 2016, 09:31:52 AM
I don't know, dark parking lot, you're tired..... just came from the Bugs Bunny Film Festival... it can happen.  I like that one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on October 06, 2016, 07:15:26 AM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14479795_194632840970489_7101205844143259294_n.jpg?oh=f62324bd3c9d70106cb8e9e75858ad97&oe=58601032)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 06, 2016, 07:50:48 AM
That's an excellent idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 06, 2016, 08:51:12 AM
I don't see any reference to Pokemon costumes so my kids should be good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on October 06, 2016, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 06, 2016, 08:51:12 AM
I don't see any reference to Pokemon costumes so my kids should be good.

I believe people would say Pokémon is cultural appropriation. Sorry  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 06, 2016, 08:58:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 06, 2016, 08:51:12 AM
I don't see any reference to Pokemon costumes so my kids should be good.

Could be cultural appropriation  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on October 06, 2016, 09:02:00 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 06, 2016, 09:04:31 AM
Yeah, check your privilege Valmy  :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Scipio on October 06, 2016, 09:19:51 AM
My fiancee and I plan to go as Tormund and Brienne.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 06, 2016, 09:20:49 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 06, 2016, 09:04:31 AM
Yeah, check your privilege Valmy  :contract:


Only Japanese kids can authentically dress up as Pikachu :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 06, 2016, 11:11:31 AM
Bravo Scip:

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12032117_976159895754270_1520393111832953337_n.png?oh=7df39950a8d889b759cae293f3d5800f&oe=58665BAC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 06, 2016, 11:38:12 AM
Wife is gonna dress as Duston from Stranger things. Is that making fun of hte differently abled?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on October 06, 2016, 02:02:15 PM
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/14519749_1720440341613982_988761794931197185_n.jpg?oh=b7527b201d49088c32f301c0f0b74d39&oe=58667C64)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 06, 2016, 03:20:16 PM
Fair.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 06, 2016, 03:23:42 PM
:lol:

See, my side can take a joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 06, 2016, 03:25:28 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 06, 2016, 03:23:42 PM
:lol:

See, my side can take a joke.

I love SNL jokes about Hillary being a crazed person.

I think the commonality is that a joke actually has be to be funny to be appreciated from all sides. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 06, 2016, 05:03:28 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 04, 2016, 04:45:33 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14225387_1839499159628323_7490230212181880892_n.jpg?oh=fe30c5a86ed82f3e0027744c6ac96d66&oe=586E8DD0)

Damn. Too funny to be true

http://www.snopes.com/road-runner-tunnel-crash-rumor/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 07, 2016, 11:51:25 AM
The Facebook Follies in this thread aren't actually true? :o :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on October 08, 2016, 08:24:34 AM
(https://i.redd.it/qvj9u8ii57qx.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2016, 01:03:02 PM
Took a while for me to get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 08, 2016, 01:08:52 PM
The Khaddafi one looks like the real thing anyway  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on October 08, 2016, 02:07:44 PM
The Chavez one sort of works, oddly enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2016, 05:28:26 PM
Mao is not even close.

Who is bottom left dude?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on October 08, 2016, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2016, 05:28:26 PM
Mao is not even close.

Who is bottom left dude?

Saddam?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2016, 06:02:38 PM
Looks like something Ed would do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: lustindarkness on October 08, 2016, 06:04:05 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2016, 06:02:38 PM
Looks like something Ed would do.

For an altar?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 08, 2016, 10:41:41 PM
Racism? No, this isn't about racism!


(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/14520435_898826186920900_9009937941725928922_n.jpg?oh=5f8d0b9ebceba0f7d92e2c2cac7253d5&oe=5873EDB7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 08, 2016, 10:58:06 PM
Political Memes are just a horrible trend. Makes me long for the days of soundbites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 09, 2016, 07:13:23 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14522859_10211445128272631_2958641485089725677_n.jpg?oh=7effe8eecb46bdefdef8295c033dac3f&oe=58A9BEED)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 09, 2016, 07:18:14 AM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p296x100/14563578_347959588884541_716629830184482725_n.jpg?oh=dbe6e473cd450b0f365bb497f2210f1c&oe=586C817F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 09, 2016, 08:29:48 AM
I just emailed that to everyone I know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 09, 2016, 08:32:54 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 08, 2016, 10:41:41 PM
Racism? No, this isn't about racism!


(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/14520435_898826186920900_9009937941725928922_n.jpg?oh=5f8d0b9ebceba0f7d92e2c2cac7253d5&oe=5873EDB7)

I laughed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 09, 2016, 08:44:46 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 09, 2016, 08:29:48 AM
I just emailed that to everyone I know.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 10, 2016, 02:48:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 09, 2016, 08:44:46 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 09, 2016, 08:29:48 AM
I just emailed that to everyone I know.

:lol:

You can now buy it as a t-shirt, Seeds.

http://www.femalecollective.org/product/pussy-grabs-back
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on October 10, 2016, 08:23:11 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14500443_1812303529037544_2414170451765362378_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: lustindarkness on October 10, 2016, 08:39:34 PM
Liked but I won't share.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 10, 2016, 08:42:30 PM
Only one of the Swedish girls tickles my pickle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 10, 2016, 08:45:13 PM
They won't vote for Trump either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 10, 2016, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 10, 2016, 08:39:34 PM
Liked but I won't share.

Greedy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 10, 2016, 09:46:46 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 10, 2016, 08:42:30 PM
Only one of the Swedish girls tickles my pickle.

Far left.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 10, 2016, 09:52:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 10, 2016, 09:46:46 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 10, 2016, 08:42:30 PM
Only one of the Swedish girls tickles my pickle.

Far left.

Yep.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2016, 12:41:53 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/13244723_506774522859394_457745124019684561_n.jpg?oh=0bfd7c4ee54abe16e26de64694d0a0e2&oe=5865CFF7&__gda__=1483833858_a3ecd749ed188421746152497737bdc0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 11, 2016, 12:53:59 AM
Doesn't even mention the worst part: the Democrats want to take our guns away so we can't shoot the Muslims before they blow us up.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2016, 02:11:24 AM
I guess the guy who wrote that never heard of Indonesia.  Or Malaysia.  Or hell, Egypt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 05:41:25 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14612412_316669612024792_1178666276954812244_o.jpg)

Meant in jest, but not originally so, as some comments indicate it. ;)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 05:48:45 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 05:41:25 AM
Meant in jest, but not originally so, as some comments indicate it. ;)

I don't think I've seen anyone dress as any sort of Indian or Native American here in, well, decades.  Is that a thing over there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 05:50:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 11, 2016, 12:41:53 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/13244723_506774522859394_457745124019684561_n.jpg?oh=0bfd7c4ee54abe16e26de64694d0a0e2&oe=5865CFF7&__gda__=1483833858_a3ecd749ed188421746152497737bdc0)

HOW do people ask questions for premises that aren't true????  WHAT is the definition of that kind of fallacy????  HOW many bullets do I have in this loaded question before I can kill people with it????  WHERE are my socks????
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 11, 2016, 05:51:31 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 05:48:45 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 05:41:25 AM
Meant in jest, but not originally so, as some comments indicate it. ;)

I don't think I've seen anyone dress as any sort of Indian or Native American here in, well, decades.  Is that a thing over there?

every once in a while the internet freaks out about cultural appropriation of native American culture, like when a celeb wears a dram catcher, or puts out a Instagram post with some feathers. usually it's annoying white people trying to play the great white savior thing, which I find funny in its own right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 06:42:28 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 05:48:45 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 05:41:25 AM
Meant in jest, but not originally so, as some comments indicate it. ;)

I don't think I've seen anyone dress as any sort of Indian or Native American here in, well, decades.  Is that a thing over there?

I don't think so, and besides it was posted by a Yank expat, in jest, though the original post wasn't IIRC.

Moreover, Halloween is still not a great thing here, but some marketing types try to play it up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 06:45:59 AM
Quote from: HVC on October 11, 2016, 05:51:31 AM
like when a celeb wears a dram catche

That's Scottish cultural appropriation though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2016, 06:46:47 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 06:45:59 AM
Quote from: HVC on October 11, 2016, 05:51:31 AM
like when a celeb wears a dram catche

That's Scottish cultural appropriation though.

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on October 11, 2016, 09:05:32 AM
Today's facebook photo filter/cause of the day amuses me.


(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14713699_10154933526810681_2862735349068715239_n.jpg?oh=58f2bdc6b6f37eb0a3a15b42d2a0cbc3&oe=58A9ED67)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2016, 09:27:20 AM
:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2016, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2016, 09:27:20 AM
:unsure:

I believe today is Equal Pay Day, at least it is in Austria (i.e. the day when men have earned as much as women in similar positions), highlighting income equality between men and women.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 11:33:47 AM
No it is international girl day. We are supposed to be standing with girls on facebook and this will somehow help them get education and health care around the world. And make adult males look creepy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2016, 11:54:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 11:33:47 AM
No it is international girl day. We are supposed to be standing with girls on facebook and this will somehow help them get education and health care around the world. And make adult males look creepy.

Do we have to shave our heads? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2016, 11:54:33 AM
Do we have to shave our heads? 

Yes. If you shave your head five girls get healthy food, health care, and education for life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 11:33:47 AM
No it is international girl day. We are supposed to be standing with girls on facebook and this will somehow help them get education and health care around the world. And make adult males look creepy.

Ed Anger will be posing with girls from the Hustler Club.  They're working their way through college.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 06:42:28 AM
I don't think so, and besides it was posted by a Yank expat, in jest, though the original post wasn't IIRC.

So the joke is that people are silly to suggest that you don't dress up as caricatures of Native people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 12:13:59 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 06:42:28 AM
I don't think so, and besides it was posted by a Yank expat, in jest, though the original post wasn't IIRC.

So the joke is that people are silly to suggest that you don't dress up as caricatures of Native people?

Speaking of which, is it ok if I dress up as a caricature of a viking?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 06:42:28 AM
I don't think so, and besides it was posted by a Yank expat, in jest, though the original post wasn't IIRC.

So the joke is that people are silly to suggest that you don't dress up as caricatures of Native people?

Is it okay if you dress up in authentic first nations regalia?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 12:19:19 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 12:16:01 PMIs it okay if you dress up in authentic first nations regalia?

I'm not sure the authenticity of the outfit makes a halloween costume less of a caricature.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 12:25:12 PM
Dreasing up as an Indian/Native American for Halloween is impractical, as it is just too damned cold.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 12:26:57 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 12:19:19 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 12:16:01 PMIs it okay if you dress up in authentic first nations regalia?

I'm not sure the authenticity of the outfit makes a halloween costume less of a caricature.

Quotecaricature: a picture, description, etc., ludicrously exaggerating the peculiarities or defects of persons or things

So if you don't exaggerate the peculiarities - if your feather headdress is appropriately sized for example - is it okay to dress up as a aboriginal person?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 12:29:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 12:26:57 PMSo if you don't exaggerate the peculiarities - if your feather headdress is appropriately sized for example - is it okay to dress up as a aboriginal person?

That's the question for Duque, isn't it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 12:31:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 12:25:12 PM
Dreasing up as an Indian/Native American for Halloween is impractical, as it is just too damned cold.

Anyway you should be dressing up as a monster that terrifies the locals. Like Bill Belichick or a police officer or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 12:55:31 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 12:29:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 12:26:57 PMSo if you don't exaggerate the peculiarities - if your feather headdress is appropriately sized for example - is it okay to dress up as a aboriginal person?

That's the question for Duque, isn't it?

To be honest, I am not sure it will be enough for the PC crowd.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 01:04:04 PM
Even if you get it all right, the fallback gripe is cultural appropriation.  So no, not okay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 01:04:04 PM
Even if you get it all right, the fallback gripe is cultural appropriation.  So no, not okay.

QuoteThe Movement
7/10 às 0:30 ·
Reminder: Don't steal someone else's culture this Halloween!

I never thought you were such a connoisseur of the Movement.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 11, 2016, 01:11:06 PM
I own/display native art (I have a great fondness for the art style of the Pacific Northwest tribes) at home...nowadays I am not sure if I am a cultural appropriator or supporting indigenous culture/artists.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:11:14 PM
Why is it offensive to dress as a Native American? What is the rationale?

Serious question btw.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 11, 2016, 01:12:32 PM
Also, HOTT babes in native American costume are even HOTTer.  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 01:16:23 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:11:14 PM
Why is it offensive to dress as a Native American? What is the rationale?

Serious question btw.

Combination of offensive costumes (think slutty pocahontas) combined with, as spicey says, cultural appropriation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2016, 01:17:23 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 11, 2016, 01:12:32 PM
Also, HOTT babes in native American costume are even HOTTer.  :blush:

You might find this video relevant to your interests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6tnj7IEI0E
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 01:21:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 11, 2016, 01:17:23 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 11, 2016, 01:12:32 PM
Also, HOTT babes in native American costume are even HOTTer.  :blush:

You might find this video relevant to your interests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6tnj7IEI0E

:D Classic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 01:22:55 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 11, 2016, 01:11:06 PM
I own/display native art (I have a great fondness for the art style of the Pacific Northwest tribes) at home...nowadays I am not sure if I am a cultural appropriator or supporting indigenous culture/artists.  :(

As I understand it, it is just fine to purchase native art if it has been made by first nations artists.

But if you're non-native, you're not supposed to use or be inspired by first nations artistic styles.

Which I think is stupid, but that's the argument.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 01:23:03 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 01:08:37 PM
I never thought you were such a connoisseur of the Movement.  :P

Actually, that would be Ed :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:26:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 01:16:23 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:11:14 PM
Why is it offensive to dress as a Native American? What is the rationale?

Serious question btw.

Combination of offensive costumes (think slutty pocahontas) combined with, as spicey says, cultural appropriation.

I have trouble understanding cultural appropriation, we don't have a similar word (or even concept I think) in french.

If somebody dressed with a beret and and a baguette under his arm for Halloween is it cultural appropriation and I should be offended?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 01:27:26 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:26:14 PM

If somebody dressed with a beret and and a baguette under his arm for Halloween is it cultural appropriation and I should be offended?

Yes.

And if a Frenchman dresses up like a cowboy I should be offended.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 01:32:26 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:26:14 PM
I have trouble understanding cultural appropriation, we don't have a similar word (or even concept I think) in french.



Patience, ça arrive.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriation_culturelle (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriation_culturelle)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 11, 2016, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 11, 2016, 01:11:06 PM
I own/display native art (I have a great fondness for the art style of the Pacific Northwest tribes) at home...nowadays I am not sure if I am a cultural appropriator or supporting indigenous culture/artists.  :(

Yes
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:26:14 PM
I have trouble understanding cultural appropriation, we don't have a similar word (or even concept I think) in french.

Outrageous.  Do you also not have terms for things like Fat Acceptance and Fat Shaming??

QuoteIf somebody dressed with a beret and and a baguette under his arm for Halloween is it cultural appropriation and I should be offended?

See, now the French are historically colonizers and oppressors, and therefore not an oppressed culture that needs to be protected from such outrages.  So we're allowed to go as far as we want to mock your culture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:36:58 PM
The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 01:40:31 PM
Speaking of cultural oppression, with the recent launching of the Cincinnati Streetcar Cincinnati Bell Connector, someone dug up this horribly racist song that came out when the city ditched streetcars for buses in the 50s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2hOleaXOr8

Do not laugh.

Sorry Mono :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2016, 01:40:56 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14657293_1148688961882528_1780238690356465765_n.jpg?oh=06b8ee61118e2941b4e09248d0d99c15&oe=58ABE111)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:41:46 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:36:58 PM
The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

Good point. Derspiess makes a good point too. I don't know. It's kinda like porn I guess? You know it when you see it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:36:58 PM
The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

That is an important distinction and one I do not really understand. If it was made clear and the rules established I would have no problem going along with them. As it is, whatever some asshole decides offends them on the internet is now randomly announced as a crime.

I mean Japanese and Chinese and Indian culture are also big time powerhouses now. Are those fair game?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 01:43:03 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 11, 2016, 01:40:56 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14657293_1148688961882528_1780238690356465765_n.jpg?oh=06b8ee61118e2941b4e09248d0d99c15&oe=58ABE111)

Wait. Citizen's United? WTF?

I mean generally I do support most of those things. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 11, 2016, 01:44:00 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:36:58 PM
The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

Indeed.

It is trivial to mock the weak when you are strong.

I think the idea of cultural appropriation is pretty silly, really. But I understand where it is coming from, and I understand why people would feel pissed off about what has happened to their values and history.

I think it is comparable to BLM - it is easy to point out that if you are worried about black lives, you should spend a lot more time worrying about black on black violence rather than police on black violence. That is simply and obviously true.

But I understand that it isn't truly about police violence, not really. It is about a systemic and persistent cultural world where black lives are treated as second class. Where black children get shitty educations, black women have a terrible social structure, and black men are put in prison at rates that white people would never, ever, EVER tolerate.  It isn't really about the problem of cops shooting black people, it is about so much more, that is just the manifestation of the frustration and rage, something tangible to be pissed off about.

Do I think native Americans look at some high school chick dressed up as "Hot Pocahontas" as the true crux of their beef with American society? Of course not. But if you cannot understand that they are in fact pissed off for pretty damn good reasons, you aren't trying to think very much at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 11, 2016, 01:44:00 PM
I think the idea of cultural appropriation is pretty silly, really. But I understand where it is coming from, and I understand why people would feel pissed off about what has happened to their values and history.

Yes I get where it is coming from. I am even a bit sympathetic to that place. But I find it a dangerous idea in its vagueness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 01:48:36 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:26:14 PM
I have trouble understanding cultural appropriation, we don't have a similar word (or even concept I think) in french.

Outrageous.  Do you also not have terms for things like Fat Acceptance and Fat Shaming??


Chillax

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptation_des_gros#Historique (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptation_des_gros#Historique)

Fat acceptance :acceptation des gros, as per the link.
Fat shaming would be grossophobie. First time I heard it, i thought it was a joke.
Not dead white male enough besides IMO. Needs more latinised ancient greek instead of a low Latin origin cognate extremely used in common parlance (gros).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 01:49:14 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:36:58 PM
The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

And, in fact, American and French culture can be rather heavy handed in the enforcement of how people conform with the parts of their culture they deem significant - see kerfuffles over respecting the flag and national anthem in the US and the one about the wearing of hijab and burkinis in France.

That Native Americans are in a position where their strongest move is to say "hey, please don't make a joke out of the bits of our culture that haven't been wiped out" and that makes some people feel a little bit guilty does not make the request unreasonable, IMO.

It's easy enough for a French guy in France to laugh off a stereotype of French people (say baguettes and garlic and berets), because he's in a pretty good spot for it to never matter. If you're Franco-Ontarian and live in a place where people tell you to "speak white", harass your kids, and deny you employment opportunities then it's a different matter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:52:30 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 11, 2016, 01:41:46 PM
Good point. Derspiess makes a good point too. I don't know. It's kinda like porn I guess? You know it when you see it.

Yes. I think it is important, at the very least, to listen to what is being said. I am not sure where I stand myself about it. I suspect that people who raise the issue of cultural appropriation have a point when they say that some of the strong reactions against the concept stems from the fact that the people who are being told something is inappropriate, have not been told very often, and have not had to think very deeply that cultural transgressions can have important consequences.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:36:58 PM
The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.
We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 01:52:54 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 01:49:14 PM
And, in fact, American and French culture can be rather heavy handed in the enforcement of how people conform with the parts of their culture they deem significant - see kerfuffles over respecting the flag and national anthem in the US and the one about the wearing of hijab and burkinis in France.

We are heavy handed in respecting the flag? How? By some people being angry about it on Facebook and others being supportive? I couldn't disagree with this smear more. People not liking a gesture is not the same as heavy handed enforcement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 11, 2016, 01:53:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 11, 2016, 01:44:00 PM
I think the idea of cultural appropriation is pretty silly, really. But I understand where it is coming from, and I understand why people would feel pissed off about what has happened to their values and history.

Yes I get where it is coming from. I am even a bit sympathetic to that place. But I find it a dangerous idea in its vagueness.


I guess.

I think it is more dangerous to just continue on like nothing is wrong, because that way leads to social reform by violence.

I think it is kind of duplicitous to bitch much about the form that the oppressed use to express their anger at being treated like shit. It seems to me like an excuse to dismiss it out of hand in favor of the status quo. I think that is both unfair, and dangerous.

By definition the weak have little power to effect change. If they had power and means to effect change, they would have done so already - so perforce their expression of dis-satisfaction will by necessity often be indirect or even seem silly or misleading. So it is easy to mock concepts like BLM, or kneeling during the anthem, or complaining about cultural appropriation. But WTF? It's like we are kicking people in the teeth over and over again, and then complaining that we can't understand them because they don't talk clearly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 01:46:37 PM
Yes I get where it is coming from. I am even a bit sympathetic to that place. But I find it a dangerous idea in its vagueness.

I don't see where the danger is. It is a political point: that is to say, it  is there to be discussed and debated, and the people bringing it to the forefront are trying to bring it on *their* terms, rather than ours - as Berkut mentioned. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2016, 01:57:28 PM
I don't think dividing us into strong and weak cultures is the way forward. Traditional Swedish culture has been taking an enormous beating the past 100 years from mighty cultures from across the sea. Who gives a flying fuck?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:59:10 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 01:52:53 PM
We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry.  :)

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:00:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 01:42:00 PMI mean Japanese and Chinese and Indian culture are also big time powerhouses now. Are those fair game?

It's kinda messy to navigate if you, you know, care about these things. I'd say that if in your local context people are in a subaltern position you might want to avoid that. So where you are at, are Asian-Americans and people of Indian descent subjected to racism and harmed by the perpetuation of stereotypes? If the answer to that question is yes - and it's probably best to get some input from them - then it's probably best to avoid trading in those stereotypes for the sake of entertainment.

I mean, you can argue I suppose that that recent O'Reilly show Chinatown segment was harmless fun, or you can say that it was unacceptable. Where ever you draw the line on that, that's a pretty good benchmark I think.

Personally, I avoid using pastiches of cultural stereotypes in general - including the US and France, as it happens - because I think it's kind of tacky.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:02:22 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:54:32 PM
I don't see where the danger is. It is a political point: that is to say, it  is there to be discussed and debated, and the people bringing it to the forefront are trying to bring it on *their* terms, rather than ours - as Berkut mentioned. 

The danger is that a natural transference of culture and ideas is really important. Especially in my country. This gives what nationalists and conservatives love around the world: another thing to hate other people with and have yet another grievance of oppression. But hey maybe they already have a sufficient amount.

So the annual Halloween outrage fest is not a big deal. But that is small potatoes compared to things like 'how dare that other ethnicity guy have music that has elements of my culture?" things I generally see year round.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:03:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:00:46 PM
Personally, I avoid using pastiches of cultural stereotypes in general - including the US and France, as it happens - because I think it's kind of tacky.

Oh it is absolutely tacky and I certainly would never do it. Though Ninjas are cool.

QuoteIt's kinda messy to navigate if you, you know, care about these things. I'd say that if in your local context people are in a subaltern position you might want to avoid that. So where you are at, are Asian-Americans and people of Indian descent subjected to racism and harmed by the perpetuation of stereotypes? If the answer to that question is yes - and it's probably best to get some input from them - then it's probably best to avoid trading in those stereotypes for the sake of entertainment.

Of course all three countries export those cultures for profit and entertainment. They made the Bollywood tropes and stereotypes themselves and gleefully sent them abroad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:59:10 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 01:52:53 PM
We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry.  :)

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.
I agree, but arguably that's because of cultural appropriation. The symbols of National Socialism are no longer German, but have been appropriated by White Supremacists across the world (even places like Russia).  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:04:05 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:59:10 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 01:52:53 PM
We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry.  :)

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.

Wow. You couldn't be more wrong. Nazi shit is big business.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:04:56 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 02:03:27 PM
(even places like Russia).  ;)

Yeah. Talk about going maximum post-modernism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2016, 02:06:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:04:05 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:59:10 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 01:52:53 PM
We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry.  :)

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.

Wow. You couldn't be more wrong. Nazi shit is big business.

You mean like for these reeanactors in Ohio? :P

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_p3Q0eKo0OeI%2FS9Nvp7TiHkI%2FAAAAAAAAF24%2FdjJ40VALVd0%2Fs1600%2FWiking%2Breenactment%2Breenactor%2Bss%2Bpanzer%2Bdivision.JPG&hash=4b59a996965a47c0ca3f9560ad5c854248d09b5a)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 11, 2016, 02:10:03 PM
I don't know, maybe I'm turning into a grumpy old white* guy, but it seems that people are starting to ignore or forget about the importance of intent. If you're dressing up as a native to insult natives, then ya, that's wrong.  But wearing faux leather to look sexy? Is it tacky, sure is, but is it insulting? I don't think so. Dress up as a Portuguese construction worker, or a beaver petting moose riding mounty to have fun. Go nuts, I don't see how that harms me in any way.

* depending on certain people's views. I'm looking at you Ed :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 02:11:34 PM
The SS collar on some of those uniforms or the Reich-eagle with the swastika would be criminal offenses in Germany. Not sure about the Death's Head cap, probably illegal as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 02:13:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:04:05 PM
Wow. You couldn't be more wrong. Nazi shit is big business.

I am sure it is, but it's not happening in the same circles, nor with the same enthusiastic endorsement as mainstream vendors of cuckoo clocks and beer steins in tourist shops of Munich.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:13:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 01:52:54 PM
We are heavy handed in respecting the flag? How? By some people being angry about it on Facebook and others being supportive? I couldn't disagree with this smear more. People not liking a gesture is not the same as heavy handed enforcement.

It is my understanding that American school children pledge allegiance to the American flag (on a daily basis?) and that there is significant social pressure to follow along, even if technically you can opt out. Is that incorrect?

But if you prefer, I'll retract "heavy handed" - my point was that Americans and French (like most nationalities) taken as groups can be offended by disrespect of cultural and national symbols they care about - and there can be consequences for causing such offense due to the power of public opinion - and I think viewing arguments over dressing as Natives in that light is worthwhile, since traditional dress is evidently some of the cultural symbols Native peoples care about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:14:33 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 02:11:34 PM
The SS livery collar on some of those uniforms or the Reich-eagle with the swastika would be criminal offenses in Germany. Not sure about the Death's Head cap, probably illegal as well.

Surely not. The Death's Head Hussars are not really a Nazi thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 02:15:32 PM
Zoupa goes as a French fur trapper BECAUSE HE GRABS THAT PUSSY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:16:55 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:13:32 PM
It is my understanding that American school children pledge allegiance to the American flag (on a daily basis?) and that there is significant social pressure to follow along, even if technically you can opt out. Is that incorrect?

Ah yes. Totally depends on the state and district. That is true. As a kid you have to put up with shit that sometimes as an adult I forget about.

QuoteBut if you prefer, I'll retract "heavy handed" - my point was that Americans and French (like most nationalities) taken as groups can be offended by disrespect of cultural and national symbols they care about - and there can be consequences for causing such offense due to the power of public opinion - and I think viewing arguments over dressing as Natives in that light is worthwhile, since traditional dress is evidently some of the cultural symbols Native peoples care about.

Ok I think everybody agrees that actively disrespecting the flag of a country, or symbols of an ethnicity, is offensive. That is clear, and its clarity is significant. But generally I don't consider Europeans having Kitsch cowboy shit as the same thing as them parading around burning the American Flag. In the latter case they are trying to offend me to send a message.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2016, 02:17:13 PM
The problem with being a whiny pussy is that people may eventually start treating you like one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 11, 2016, 02:10:03 PM
I don't know, maybe I'm turning into a grumpy old white* guy, but it seems that people are starting to ignore or forget about the importance of intent. If you're dressing up as a native to insult natives, then ya, that's wrong.  But wearing faux leather to look sexy? Is it tacky, sure is, but is it insulting? I don't think so. Dress up as a Portuguese construction worker, or a beaver petting moose riding mounty to have fun. Go nuts, I don't see how that harms me in any way.

* depending on certain people's views. I'm looking at you Ed :P

I'm deeply offended by all the people who attempt to look sexy by dressing up as middle aged, balding Jewish lawyers. Deeply.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 02:18:46 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 02:15:32 PM
Zoupa goes as a French fur trapper BECAUSE HE GRABS THAT PUSSY

Wouldn't "because he grabs that beaver" make more sense?  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:19:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:03:05 PM
Of course all three countries export those cultures for profit and entertainment. They made the Bollywood tropes and stereotypes themselves and gleefully sent them abroad.

Yeah, I think that's a decent place to draw the line - if you want to dress up as an anime character or a k-pop star or a bollywood character that's pretty legit, but "sexy geisha" or "korean grocery store owner" or "generic guru" are not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 02:20:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:14:33 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 02:11:34 PM
The SS livery collar on some of those uniforms or the Reich-eagle with the swastika would be criminal offenses in Germany. Not sure about the Death's Head cap, probably illegal as well.

Surely not. The Death's Head Hussars are not really a Nazi thing.
The death's head in the picture is not the one of the hussars though, but of the SS division, which was clearly a Nazi organisation and has been designated a criminal organisation in the Nuremberg trials.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 11, 2016, 02:20:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 02:18:04 PM

I'm deeply offended by all the people who attempt to look sexy by dressing up as middle aged, balding Jewish lawyers. Deeply.  :mad:

more people should. Of the few old Jewish lawyers I know they all have attractive wives. So somethings sexy about them.


... Hint, it's the money. The money is the thing that's sexy about them :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 02:22:54 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 02:18:46 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 11, 2016, 02:15:32 PM
Zoupa goes as a French fur trapper BECAUSE HE GRABS THAT PUSSY

Wouldn't "because he grabs that beaver" make more sense?  ;)

We've already determined that you don't do humor.  Stay out of my lane, moose boy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on October 11, 2016, 02:23:34 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 11, 2016, 02:06:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:04:05 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:59:10 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 01:52:53 PM
We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry.  :)

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.

Wow. You couldn't be more wrong. Nazi shit is big business.

You mean like for these reeanactors in Ohio? :P

Ed Anger's surviving male children. The ones who crawl back home from the mountaintop get to go to military school.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 02:23:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:16:55 PMBut generally I don't consider Europeans having Kitsch cowboy shit as the same thing as them parading around burning the American Flag. In the latter case they are trying to offend me to send a message.

It's true that one political message is much more overt. But you can also stand confident that there are enough variations in the representations of the Americans that the kitsch cowboy is only one part of it. And you can also stand confident that, even if the stereotype of American = Violent Cowboy does seep into other arenas, including, I am sure, international relations, existing in the minds of foreign diplomats and influencing they treat ambassadors and trade negotiations, the USA has enough resources to make itself taken seriously beyond the stereotype.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 02:25:58 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 01:52:53 PM
We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry.  :)

:)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 11, 2016, 02:20:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 02:18:04 PM

I'm deeply offended by all the people who attempt to look sexy by dressing up as middle aged, balding Jewish lawyers. Deeply.  :mad:

more people should. Of the few old Jewish lawyers I know they all have attractive wives. So somethings sexy about them.


... Hint, it's the money. The money is the thing that's sexy about them :D

And so the harmful stereotyping begins.  :(


;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:29:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:16:55 PMOk I think everybody agrees that actively disrespecting the flag of a country, or symbols of an ethnicity, is offensive. That is clear, and its clarity is significant. But generally I don't consider Europeans having Kitsch cowboy shit as the same thing as them parading around burning the American Flag. In the latter case they are trying to offend me to send a message.

Yeah, of course they're different things.

But it seems off to use the standards of what is harmful to Americans - who can, lest we forget, as a nation bomb any nation into the stone age if they decide to and whose individual lives are generally pretty unaffected by overseas attitudes - to judge what is harmful to Native Americans - whose treatment in the US ranges on a scale from being the targets of outright genocide to disinterested neglect at best. Turning (or rather maintaining) Native American symbols as a jokes or something not worthy of respect, makes it that much harder for them to be taken seriously when they struggle for civil rights and redress of their grievances.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 11, 2016, 02:33:00 PM
I post a thoughtful (at least I thought it was thoughtful) response where I, *Berkut*, actually agree with Oex and Jacob on a topic of culture of all things, and not a single response? No outrage, no agreement, nothing????

I must be losing my touch! :sob:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 11, 2016, 02:33:00 PM
I post a thoughtful (at least I thought it was thoughtful) response where I, *Berkut*, actually agree with Oex and Jacob on a topic of culture of all things, and not a single response? No outrage, no agreement, nothing????

I must be losing my touch! :sob:

I expect you'll convince Valmy where Oex and failed :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 11, 2016, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 01:36:58 PM
The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.
We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry.  :)

That gets back to Toni's native art though.  Sure, it's okay for Bavarians to sell bavarian dressed and beer festivals.

But do they get upset seeing people in north america selling lederhousen and celebrating Octoberfest?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 11, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
In my (very limited) experience, the whole "cultural appropriation" brouhaha is an uniquely American thing, with maybe only a few British forays into it. It's virtually unheard of over here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:51:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:29:40 PM
to judge what is harmful to Native Americans - whose treatment in the US ranges on a scale from being the targets of outright genocide to disinterested neglect at best. Turning (or rather maintaining) Native American symbols as a jokes or something not worthy of respect, makes it that much harder for them to be taken seriously when they struggle for civil rights and redress of their grievances.

Wait we are currently genociding Native Americans? I was never particularly fond of that word being used in this particular instance since our government intentionally avoided making that policy, which is probably the only positive thing I can think of to say about our Native American policy.

Native Americans are such a crazy diverse group  that it is very difficult to get a gauge on what they think.

For example I really want the my favorite team to change its name from the Redskins and dump all the Native American stuff. The actual Native Americans themselves, when polled, say they are cool with it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

But, on the other hand, presumably the ones that aren't cool with it are REALLY not cool with it because they raise a pretty big stink.

And it gets more complicated because Native Americans were respected in a weird way, like how the Romans respected the Huns or the Chinese respected their friendly neighborhood Mongols, so even when their words or symbols or images were appropriated they were not (always) used as a joke or as something not worthy of respect. Numerous states, cities, rivers, emblems, flags, and our currency (before the Presidents took it over) all have or had Native names or images associated with them. Were those bad things to do or not? Should Illinois not have been named Illinois?

I don't know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:35:13 PM
I expect you'll convince Valmy where Oex and failed :cheers:

What are you trying to convince me of?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:35:13 PM
I expect you'll convince Valmy where Oex and failed :cheers:

What are you trying to convince me of?

That you are a bad, bad man. Be guilty.

;)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:57:49 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 02:23:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:16:55 PMBut generally I don't consider Europeans having Kitsch cowboy shit as the same thing as them parading around burning the American Flag. In the latter case they are trying to offend me to send a message.

It's true that one political message is much more overt. But you can also stand confident that there are enough variations in the representations of the Americans that the kitsch cowboy is only one part of it. And you can also stand confident that, even if the stereotype of American = Violent Cowboy does seep into other arenas, including, I am sure, international relations, existing in the minds of foreign diplomats and influencing they treat ambassadors and trade negotiations, the USA has enough resources to make itself taken seriously beyond the stereotype.

Ok let's not mix things here. Just because I think a French chef can cook traditional vietnamese dishes does not mean I think we should embrace racist and national stereotypes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:59:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:35:13 PM
I expect you'll convince Valmy where Oex and failed :cheers:

What are you trying to convince me of?

That people who take issue with Native American garb as hallowe'en costumes have a point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2016, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:57:49 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 02:23:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:16:55 PMBut generally I don't consider Europeans having Kitsch cowboy shit as the same thing as them parading around burning the American Flag. In the latter case they are trying to offend me to send a message.

It's true that one political message is much more overt. But you can also stand confident that there are enough variations in the representations of the Americans that the kitsch cowboy is only one part of it. And you can also stand confident that, even if the stereotype of American = Violent Cowboy does seep into other arenas, including, I am sure, international relations, existing in the minds of foreign diplomats and influencing they treat ambassadors and trade negotiations, the USA has enough resources to make itself taken seriously beyond the stereotype.

Ok let's not mix things here. Just because I think a French chef can cook traditional vietnamese dishes does not mean I think we should embrace racist and national stereotypes.

That's not how this works.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 02:40:29 PM
That gets back to Toni's native art though.  Sure, it's okay for Bavarians to sell bavarian dressed and beer festivals.

But do they get upset seeing people in north america selling lederhousen and celebrating Octoberfest?

Funnily enough, non-Bavarian Krauts sometimes do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 03:03:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2016, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 02:40:29 PM
That gets back to Toni's native art though.  Sure, it's okay for Bavarians to sell bavarian dressed and beer festivals.

But do they get upset seeing people in north america selling lederhousen and celebrating Octoberfest?

Funnily enough, non-Bavarian Krauts sometimes do.

Yeah they get annoyed it is not an authentic representation of modern Germany. As if that would be any fun.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on October 11, 2016, 03:03:51 PM
My problem with the idea of cultural appropriation is that everything that we can agree is bad about it can just as easily be described as stereotyping or insulting a culture. The term 'appropriation,' however, frames benign cultural diffusion and exchange as negative, and seems to emerge from the strange assumption that cultures are discrete, self-contained entities.

Quote from: The Larch on October 11, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
In my (very limited) experience, the whole "cultural appropriation" brouhaha is an uniquely American thing, with maybe only a few British forays into it. It's virtually unheard of over here.

One can only imagine how much fun European nationalists will have with it once they do hear about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 03:05:43 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:59:14 PM
That people who take issue with Native American garb as hallowe'en costumes have a point.

My issue was never with the point. And frankly the annual outrage over Halloween costumes is not something that concerns me that much. But Cultural Appropriation as a social ill is worrisome to me because of its combination of vagueness and militancy. Which, as you well know, is a combination I find particularly destructive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2016, 03:06:25 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 11, 2016, 03:03:51 PM
My problem with the idea of cultural appropriation is that everything that we can agree is bad about it can just as easily be described as stereotyping or insulting a culture. The term 'appropriation,' however, frames benign cultural diffusion and exchange as negative, and seems to emerge from the strange assumption that cultures are discrete, self-contained entities.

So your issue is that you parse it incorrectly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 11, 2016, 03:03:51 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 11, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
In my (very limited) experience, the whole "cultural appropriation" brouhaha is an uniquely American thing, with maybe only a few British forays into it. It's virtually unheard of over here.

One can only imagine how much fun European nationalists will have with it once they do hear about it.

But they do have the same concept in europe.  Just listen for what happens when I talk about Canadian-made champagne or parmigiano-reggiano. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2016, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 03:05:43 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:59:14 PM
That people who take issue with Native American garb as hallowe'en costumes have a point.

My issue was never with the point. And frankly the annual outrage over Halloween costumes is not something that concerns me that much. But Cultural Appropriation as a social ill is worrisome to me because of its combination of vagueness and militancy. Which, as you well know, is a combination I find particularly destructive.

I don't really find it to be that vague. Sure can some people get militant and apply it incorrectly? Sure but then I think that happens with most concepts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 03:07:39 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 11, 2016, 03:03:51 PM
My problem with the idea of cultural appropriation is that everything that we can agree is bad about it can just as easily be described as stereotyping or insulting a culture. The term 'appropriation,' however, frames benign cultural diffusion and exchange as negative, and seems to emerge from the strange assumption that cultures are discrete, self-contained entities.

Quote from: The Larch on October 11, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
In my (very limited) experience, the whole "cultural appropriation" brouhaha is an uniquely American thing, with maybe only a few British forays into it. It's virtually unheard of over here.

One can only imagine how much fun European nationalists will have with it once they do hear about it.

Yup.

The notion that cultural diffusion is basically a bad thing strikes me as a very bad idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 11, 2016, 03:07:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 11, 2016, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 11, 2016, 03:03:51 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 11, 2016, 02:45:41 PM
In my (very limited) experience, the whole "cultural appropriation" brouhaha is an uniquely American thing, with maybe only a few British forays into it. It's virtually unheard of over here.

One can only imagine how much fun European nationalists will have with it once they do hear about it.

But they do have the same concept in europe.  Just listen for what happens when I talk about Canadian-made champagne or parmigiano-reggiano. :)

That's a money thing though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 03:07:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2016, 03:07:18 PM
I don't really find it to be that vague. Sure can some people get militant and apply it incorrectly? Sure but then I think that happens with most concepts.

Ok then. How do I apply it correctly and consistently? That is all I have ever asked for. If it can be then it is not vague.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2016, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 03:07:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2016, 03:07:18 PM
I don't really find it to be that vague. Sure can some people get militant and apply it incorrectly? Sure but then I think that happens with most concepts.

Ok then. How do I apply it correctly and consistently? That is all I have ever asked for. If it can be then it is not vague.

You mean like an exact rubric? Not really how social interactions work.

To answer the question though, I think Jacob did a good job. When you are looking at groups that have are often marginalised, you should take more care as to how you adopt and/or use cultural elements associated with those groups. Particularly, though not limited to, if you are not part of a marginalised group. That may indeed involve consulting with members of said groups.

Now will you make everyone happy? Of course not but then no one really manages that anyway. Taking a little extra time though to try not to be an asshole, well that generally seems worth it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 03:15:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2016, 03:12:54 PM
That may indeed involve consulting with members of said groups.

Ok. Who speaks for those groups? What if I take great care in using a traditional Vietnamese dish. A portion of Vietnamese people are angry, another portion really loves it. Who is right?

Because often this is what it looks like and everybody starts arguing with each other about what is ok. People feel very strongly on both sides. Insults get flung. Nothing good happens. Because, you know: militancy plus vagueness.

QuoteNow will you make everyone happy? Of course not but then no one really manages that anyway. Taking a little extra time though to try not to be an asshole, well that generally seems worth it.

Sure 'don't be a tacky asshole' is certainly a value I can embrace. Even though tackiness is such a huge and loved part of 'Murica. But that is not what we are talking about here. Or is it? Would BB's attempt at creating a really authentic native garb be alright then? Granted doing it for Halloween, when you are supposed to be dressed as a scary monster (sexy scary monster!), might not be.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on October 11, 2016, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2016, 03:06:25 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 11, 2016, 03:03:51 PM
My problem with the idea of cultural appropriation is that everything that we can agree is bad about it can just as easily be described as stereotyping or insulting a culture. The term 'appropriation,' however, frames benign cultural diffusion and exchange as negative, and seems to emerge from the strange assumption that cultures are discrete, self-contained entities.

So your issue is that you parse it incorrectly?

If I'm parsing it incorrectly, I'm not alone in doing so. Exponents of the idea define it here (http://sjwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation#.V_1DzOgrKhc (http://sjwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation#.V_1DzOgrKhc)) as:

QuoteCultural appropriation is the process by which a member of a dominant culture (e.g., a cishet Western white male) takes or uses (appropriates) aspects of another culture (often a colonised culture) without that culture's permission and/or without any understanding of the deeper cultural meanings behind the appropriated item.

You can see in that statement the unsupported (and really weird) assumptions that 1) it is possible to identify discrete cultures, and 2) that those cultures can give permission.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 03:25:00 PM
The fact is that it sounds so reasonable to "get permission" or to "consult", but in fact, it is impossible.

No-one "speaks" for an entire culture. If I ask my Nigerian friends or fellow-cooks whether or not it is okay to use a Nigerian dish in my cookbook (an actual example from an article cited previously of offensive appropriation), them saying "sure!" means basically nothing.

Ditto for protesting that I am in fact an expert on the deeper inner meanings of Nigerian cooking culture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 03:47:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:51:39 PMWait we are currently genociding Native Americans? I was never particularly fond of that word being used in this particular instance since our government intentionally avoided making that policy, which is probably the only positive thing I can think of to say about our Native American policy.

No, not currently - we're at the "disinterested neglect" part of the continuum, IMO. I don't think a policy of genocide is an inaccurate term to apply to interactions at other points in history - between the paying of bounties for scalps, massacres, forced relocation, statements of government officials about the waging of war to drive "the Indian race extinct", forced assimilation via residential schools, prohibition of speaking Native languages etc, I think that meets the mark.

QuoteNative Americans are such a crazy diverse group  that it is very difficult to get a gauge on what they think.

For example I really want the my favorite team to change its name from the Redskins and dump all the Native American stuff. The actual Native Americans themselves, when polled, say they are cool with it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

But, on the other hand, presumably the ones that aren't cool with it are REALLY not cool with it because they raise a pretty big stink.

I don't have a strong opinion here. Anecdotally, the name does not seem popular with the Native Americans I've discussed the issue with (not many).

QuoteAnd it gets more complicated because Native Americans were respected in a weird way, like how the Romans respected the Huns or the Chinese respected their friendly neighborhood Mongols, so even when their words or symbols or images were appropriated they were not (always) used as a joke or as something not worthy of respect. Numerous states, cities, rivers, emblems, flags, and our currency (before the Presidents took it over) all have or had Native names or images associated with them. Were those bad things to do or not? Should Illinois not have been named Illinois?

I don't know.

I hadn't really heard the "respected" narrative before. I don't really think it particularly signifies at this point... if Native people think the usage of those words and symbols are a problem then let's talk about it. If not, I don't see why we should worry about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 03:49:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 03:07:39 PMThe notion that cultural diffusion is basically a bad thing strikes me as a very bad idea.

For sure, though mostly that seems to be a strawman rather than the actual argument being made.

There are some times, of course, where it seems militant individuals come down against cultural diffusion altogether. To me, however, it seems that the "cultural diffusion is bad" argument is brought up as a theoretical rhetorical device much more frequently than it's brought up in earnest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 03:53:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 03:15:55 PM
Ok. Who speaks for those groups? What if I take great care in using a traditional Vietnamese dish. A portion of Vietnamese people are angry, another portion really loves it. Who is right?

Because often this is what it looks like and everybody starts arguing with each other about what is ok. People feel very strongly on both sides. Insults get flung. Nothing good happens. Because, you know: militancy plus vagueness.

So what's your answer then? What should we do? What do you do?

QuoteSure 'don't be a tacky asshole' is certainly a value I can embrace. Even though tackiness is such a huge and loved part of 'Murica. But that is not what we are talking about here. Or is it? Would BB's attempt at creating a really authentic native garb be alright then? Granted doing it for Halloween, when you are supposed to be dressed as a scary monster (sexy scary monster!), might not be.

... it seems you do get it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2016, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 03:49:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 03:07:39 PMThe notion that cultural diffusion is basically a bad thing strikes me as a very bad idea.

For sure, though mostly that seems to be a strawman rather than the actual argument being made. There are some times, of course, where it seems militant individual come down against cultural altogether, but to me it seems it's brought up as a theoretical rhetorical device much more frequently than it does earnestly.

:wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 03:25:00 PM
The fact is that it sounds so reasonable to "get permission" or to "consult", but in fact, it is impossible.

No-one "speaks" for an entire culture. If I ask my Nigerian friends or fellow-cooks whether or not it is okay to use a Nigerian dish in my cookbook (an actual example from an article cited previously of offensive appropriation), them saying "sure!" means basically nothing.

Ditto for protesting that I am in fact an expert on the deeper inner meanings of Nigerian cooking culture.

Yeah, when it comes to food there's been a few pretty silly things recently, IMO.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 03:57:18 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 03:49:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 03:07:39 PMThe notion that cultural diffusion is basically a bad thing strikes me as a very bad idea.

For sure, though mostly that seems to be a strawman rather than the actual argument being made. There are some times, of course, where it seems militant individual come down against cultural altogether, but to me it seems it's brought up as a theoretical rhetorical device much more frequently than it does earnestly.

I dunno. The issue is that in many cases examples pointed out of "cultural appropriation" appear to be simply examples of someone from ethnic group A using something from the culture of ethnic group B, without this mythical "approval" that one can allegedly obtain. How it that different from cultural diffusion?

For example: in the article posted earlier by Garbon, the example was given (with approval) of the following as an example of "cultural appropriation": an (English) cook publishing a cookbook, which included a Nigerian dish.

I didn't invent that example, so if it is a "strawman" it is not one of my making. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 04:02:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 11, 2016, 03:54:20 PM
:wacko:

:lol: Yeah, that could've used an edit before I hit post  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 11, 2016, 04:18:05 PM
Call me Chief fucks the squaws.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2016, 04:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2016, 04:18:05 PM
Call me Chief fucks the squaws.

Chief Dreams of Past Glories?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 11, 2016, 04:29:36 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2016, 04:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2016, 04:18:05 PM
Call me Chief fucks the squaws.

Chief Dreams of Past Glories?

:cry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:57:49 PM
Ok let's not mix things here. Just because I think a French chef can cook traditional vietnamese dishes does not mean I think we should embrace racist and national stereotypes.

That is not what I am saying at all. You were making a difference between a gesture that was deliberately meant as political, and one which you considered, was not. What I am pointing out is that a) part of the cultural appropriation "movement" is to say that some things that are often not considered as political by a powerful majority, are, in fact carrying strong political meaning. b) their effort is precisely to bring what they consider their latent political meaning to the consciousness of that powerful majority, using their own terms. Or, if you prefer, you can argue that this is *making* things political, rather than simply unveiling their latent political meaning.

I simply used the simple example that you provided about dressing up to underline that, even in the case of white Americans, the stereotyping which is reinforced by pop culture (i.e, Western cowboys) can have subtle political ramifications in serious matters.

In any case, I think discussions of cultural appropriation, whether they are considered founded or not, should back away from a sort of defensive reaction against the idea that one - me, or you - is fundamentally racist when one, say, dresses up as a sexy pocahontas or cooks burritos. It is about systemic effects, not about intent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 11, 2016, 03:57:18 PM
For example: in the article posted earlier by Garbon, the example was given (with approval) of the following as an example of "cultural appropriation": an (English) cook publishing a cookbook, which included a Nigerian dish.

Cooking is one of those things frequently evoked to tar the whole thing, as Jacob pointed out. And, as Garbon also pointed out, it is common in all sorts of political causes to mistake the visible thing - a dish - for what is actually being argued, even by militants.

The people I know who consider the whole cultural appropriation thing seriously, with regards to food, make very similar arguments to those made, say, in theater, when hiring white people to play Indians, Arabs, etc. It takes places in a context of celebrity chefs, and restaurants, and TV personalities - not my kitchen, when I clumsily attempt to make a chili. It takes place in an economy where chefs claim fame, and fortune, and aggregate cultural meaning to themselves, while, say, underpaid Mexican cooks reap very little benefit. In other words, when people claim a label, such as "traditional Nigerian", what are they trying to do? Presumably, there is an appeal - but has that celebrity chef, actually consulted a Nigerian person, or even a Nigerian chef? Has that person been given credit? The point is not to get a license from some non-existant  cultural authority - but rather, at least, to give due, and share benefits. And, in fact, a colleague of mine who does go on about cultural appropriation much more seriously than I do (and who is a much finer palate than I am), celebrates a bunch of white Texans who apparently *get* Mexican cuisine, and render unto Julio Caesar and whatnot, much better than many actual Mexican chefs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 11, 2016, 06:42:22 PM
how many years of intermixing until non ethnic minority is entitled to partake in a culture? Mexican cuisine has been a part of the south for over a century. Can valmy create a Mexican cook book (or tex-mex faux Mexican :D) without it being appropriation since he grew up surrounded by the cuisine? or as the lily white man that he is can it never be appropriate since he's not ethnically a Mexican? Going further tempura was originally Portuguese. Is japan culturally appropriating it and thus is not entitled to this cuisine anymore? or conversely, can I open up a tempura restaurant and safely re-appropriate my culture?

Going away from the food aspect, in the north American context of the mixing bowl (or multi-culturalism for my fellow canucks :P ), the increased push for ethnic segregation makes no sense to me.  In an age of increased global communication we should be absorbing more of each other best cultural traits, not activily discouragining it. maybe because I lived most of my life in Toronto with a diverse group of friends and family I don't see cultural assimilation as a bad thing. I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just can't get my head around the objection to it. like I mentioned in a previous post to me the intent of the action is what matters to me. is someone being derisive or negative? if not I just can't see the harm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 11, 2016, 06:53:04 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 02:19:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2016, 02:03:05 PM
Of course all three countries export those cultures for profit and entertainment. They made the Bollywood tropes and stereotypes themselves and gleefully sent them abroad.

Yeah, I think that's a decent place to draw the line - if you want to dress up as an anime character or a k-pop star or a bollywood character that's pretty legit, but "sexy geisha" or "korean grocery store owner" or "generic guru" are not.

But what about non-sexy, legitimate cultural outfits worn for seemingly legitimate purposes?  For example, a white/western woman/man who lives in Japan, and buys a kimono/(whatever male equivalent is) for wear to a culturally appropriate event where such traditional dress is worn (granted, I have no idea what that would be).  A sign of respect for the culture one is living in, or an automatic mocking of it?  Or, for example, when Bush/Obama have worn traditional Chinese/Asian outfits during diplomatic visits?

I think for some, the line would be drawn at Halloween costumes being the only thing that mocks, or "appropriates"...but for many (or at least those who vocally complain), even when trying to show respect or admiration for the culture, it is automatically mocking.  It is more the latter that I disagree with.



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 11, 2016, 06:53:04 PMBut what about non-sexy, legitimate cultural outfits worn for seemingly legitimate purposes?  For example, a white/western woman/man who lives in Japan, and buys a kimono/(whatever male equivalent is) for wear to a culturally appropriate event where such traditional dress is worn (granted, I have no idea what that would be).  A sign of respect for the culture one is living in, or an automatic mocking of it?  Or, for example, when Bush/Obama have worn traditional Chinese/Asian outfits during diplomatic visits?

Yeah from where I'm sitting, that's totally appropriate.

QuoteI think for some, the line would be drawn at Halloween costumes being the only thing that mocks, or "appropriates"...but for many (or at least those who vocally complain), even when trying to show respect or admiration for the culture, it is automatically mocking.  It is more the latter that I disagree with.

Yeah, I think some of this stuff shades into the ridiculous but I'm willing to at least hear the argument.

I mean, to go back to your initial question, appreciating the traditional arts and crafts from a particular culture and supporting the artists by buying their work - IMO super legit and laudable - not cultural appropriation. Using that same art in official iconography in consultation with artists practicing in their tradition and with some attempt at consultation - respectful and positive and not cultural appropriation because there's a partnership involved. Some designer finding some designs from a culture that's not their own, plagiarizing them and slapping them on some clothes and selling them because they're exotic and people like that - cultural appropriation and potentially problematic.

EDIT: that is, of course, just my perspective.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 12, 2016, 02:16:07 AM
You know what we should keep talking about? Benghazi!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14671308_539340672930163_8615645041715714456_n.jpg?oh=68d378a554d5cb95cc6569839e626fe4&oe=58653657)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 12, 2016, 05:38:35 AM
He looks so peaceful.  :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on October 12, 2016, 05:59:58 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 11, 2016, 06:42:28 AM
I don't think so, and besides it was posted by a Yank expat, in jest, though the original post wasn't IIRC.

So the joke is that people are silly to suggest that you don't dress up as caricatures of Native people?

Is it ok for Native peoples to dress up as Europeans?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 12, 2016, 06:05:30 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiHuZQEC.jpg&hash=bff521a60582384186d39d7af9dc2384ca65d205)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 12, 2016, 07:05:19 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14633174_10207483843149854_2251700498158195915_o.jpg)

:D

This one is actually funny.  :P
Didn't have to look far for this one. :whistle:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 12, 2016, 07:57:35 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 12, 2016, 07:05:19 AM
[Snip image]
:D

This one is actually funny.  :P
Didn't have to look far for this one. :whistle:

I like this one!  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:20:38 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 11, 2016, 08:05:54 PM
Some designer finding some designs from a culture that's not their own, plagiarizing them and slapping them on some clothes and selling them because they're exotic and people like that - cultural appropriation and potentially problematic.

EDIT: that is, of course, just my perspective.

This is where it might get iffy, I think.

As I said, I love the artistic style of the Pacific Northwest native tribes (Tlingit, Haida, etc...another reason I need to visit Vancouver more  :blush: ).  If I, as a super-white guy, decided I wanted to learn totem pole carving (something I've strongly considered looking into)..became rather adept at it, and started to carve my own, in the same style...am I now an evil cultural appropriator?  So long as I am not trying to pass it off as "authentic native art"?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on October 12, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
I think it's fine if you don't try to sell it maybe?

That's more celebration of a culture than what is (I think) commonly meant under cultural appropriation, which is something more or less denigrating or disrespectful.

My 0.02$
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 11:33:32 AM
Trying to sell it as an authentic Native American totem pole would be iffy, but it seems fine otherwise. The diffusion of artistic styles is entirely benign.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 12, 2016, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 12, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
That's more celebration of a culture than what is (I think) commonly meant under cultural appropriation, which is something more or less denigrating or disrespectful.

My 0.02$

Yes. But you can just call something denigrating or disrespectful racist. No need for a new concept.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:37:29 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 11:33:32 AM
Trying to sell it as an authentic Native American totem pole would be iffy, but it seems fine otherwise. The diffusion of artistic styles is entirely benign.

I wouldn't even say iffy...that'd be outright fraud.

The idea more was for "outsiders" using the style originated by a certain culture...even if the intent was one of having respected/admired it, and putting one's own, individual take on it (even if that individual is a privileged white dude). 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on October 12, 2016, 11:39:06 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 12, 2016, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 12, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
That's more celebration of a culture than what is (I think) commonly meant under cultural appropriation, which is something more or less denigrating or disrespectful.

My 0.02$

Yes. But you can just call something denigrating or disrespectful racist. No need for a new concept.

Tru dat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:37:29 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 11:33:32 AM
Trying to sell it as an authentic Native American totem pole would be iffy, but it seems fine otherwise. The diffusion of artistic styles is entirely benign.

I wouldn't even say iffy...that'd be outright fraud.

The idea more was for "outsiders" using the style originated by a certain culture...even if the intent was one of having respected/admired it, and putting one's own, individual take on it (even if that individual is a privileged white dude). 

It's a process that has been happening since the dawn of humanity and has allowed good (or aesthetically pleasing, insofar as there's a difference) ideas to diffuse throughout the world. The distinction between 'outsider' and 'insider' also becomes really blurry really quickly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 12, 2016, 11:50:46 AM
Are totems religious or just artistic?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:37:29 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 11:33:32 AM
Trying to sell it as an authentic Native American totem pole would be iffy, but it seems fine otherwise. The diffusion of artistic styles is entirely benign.

I wouldn't even say iffy...that'd be outright fraud.

The idea more was for "outsiders" using the style originated by a certain culture...even if the intent was one of having respected/admired it, and putting one's own, individual take on it (even if that individual is a privileged white dude). 

It's a process that has been happening since the dawn of humanity and has allowed good (or aesthetically pleasing, insofar as there's a difference) ideas to diffuse throughout the world. The distinction between 'outsider' and 'insider' also becomes really blurry really quickly.


In many cases, that is true.

However, I think the white/Native American example might perhaps be the best exception to that.  Native American tribes/culture, and their desire to protect it/keep it exclusive, is very apparent (and perhaps very understandable).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:52:52 AM
Quote from: HVC on October 12, 2016, 11:50:46 AM
Are totems religious or just artistic?

Depends on the artist's intent.

They can be religious (well, maybe spiritual is the better word), cultural, tribal, or even just to tell a story/history/make a political point.

Often the carvings will depict the characters that have spiritual importance, usually associated with the tribe (e.g. Raven, Wolf, Bear, Thunderbird).  But some also just tell a story/history, and some make a (usually political) jab at the white man.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 12:02:18 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:37:29 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 11:33:32 AM
Trying to sell it as an authentic Native American totem pole would be iffy, but it seems fine otherwise. The diffusion of artistic styles is entirely benign.

I wouldn't even say iffy...that'd be outright fraud.

The idea more was for "outsiders" using the style originated by a certain culture...even if the intent was one of having respected/admired it, and putting one's own, individual take on it (even if that individual is a privileged white dude). 

It's a process that has been happening since the dawn of humanity and has allowed good (or aesthetically pleasing, insofar as there's a difference) ideas to diffuse throughout the world. The distinction between 'outsider' and 'insider' also becomes really blurry really quickly.


In many cases, that is true.

However, I think the white/Native American example might perhaps be the best exception to that.  Native American tribes/culture, and their desire to protect it/keep it exclusive, is very apparent (and perhaps very understandable).

Suppose there's a privileged white person who grew up in the PNW and saw totem poles all over the place his whole life. They informed his sense of aesthetics and their presence makes him feel like he's back home. They are thus a part of his culture. Binding culture to blood is the project of reactionary cultural conservatism; I really don't understand why so much of the supposed left has embraced it.

Edit: Well, I suppose I do understand why--because Native Americans often take pride in their culture, and diffusion of that culture somehow injures that pride, and the left looks out for the interests of oppressed minorities--but it isn't logically consistent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 12, 2016, 12:09:46 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:20:38 AMAs I said, I love the artistic style of the Pacific Northwest native tribes (Tlingit, Haida, etc...another reason I need to visit Vancouver more  :blush: ).  If I, as a super-white guy, decided I wanted to learn totem pole carving (something I've strongly considered looking into)..became rather adept at it, and started to carve my own, in the same style...am I now an evil cultural appropriator?  So long as I am not trying to pass it off as "authentic native art"?

Note that, the way you frame it, there is no selling, no benefiting of yourself other than the aesthetic pleasure, and that the learning part, presumably, comes from Indigenous people themselves.

As for the argument raised by Grinned Colossus about exchange being a timeless practice - it goes without saying. But so is pillage. That's why it's called "appropriation" and not exchange. People who raise the issue of cultural appropriation want it to be more on the side of mutually beneficial exchange and less on the side of pillage.

Again, I think people wanting to make this into a set of rules and regulations (both for, and against, cultural appropriation) are trying to empty it of political content, in order to transform it into rights and laws, guidelines that would be more comfortable by avoiding potentially awkward discussions - admittedly, this has been the shape of most recent fights against discrimination and exclusion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 12, 2016, 12:22:30 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:52:52 AM
Quote from: HVC on October 12, 2016, 11:50:46 AM
Are totems religious or just artistic?

Depends on the artist's intent.


How about a dying and naked guy nailed on some wood?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 12, 2016, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 12, 2016, 12:02:18 PM
Suppose there's a privileged white person who grew up in the PNW and saw totem poles all over the place his whole life. They informed his sense of aesthetics and their presence makes him feel like he's back home. They are thus a part of his culture. Binding culture to blood is the project of reactionary cultural conservatism; I really don't understand why so much of the supposed left has embraced it.

What are we talking about, exactly? People being pissed at being told vicariously what they shouldn't do, or the underlying issues of power that inform cultural appropriation. Who are these hypothetical people who feel so disenfranchised because they are being told they should not reproduce totem poles? "I have no desire to, but want to be able to carve an Authentic PNW Totem Pole(tm) if I want to" ? I mean, we can conjure up all sorts of specific cases (and I would argue that "seeing something around" may not always equate "being part of").
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 12:25:42 PM
How about this example?

White/Euro couple visits Japan...goes to Kyoto and visits a shop that makes/sells traditional kimonos.  Couple buys a set (I forget what the male version is called...may also be "kimono"  :P )...not as a "costume", or something to wear on Halloween...but because they think it is cool.  Why do it?  Perhaps an extravagant souvenir...maybe for "personal roleplay"...or maybe even they think that they want to have their upcoming wedding done in traditional Japanese-style, because they like/appreciate Japanese culture.  Is it "appropriation", even if it may seem "silly", or some other kind of mostly innocent affectation?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 12, 2016, 12:26:09 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 11:20:38 AM
This is where it might get iffy, I think.

As I said, I love the artistic style of the Pacific Northwest native tribes (Tlingit, Haida, etc...another reason I need to visit Vancouver more  :blush: ).  If I, as a super-white guy, decided I wanted to learn totem pole carving (something I've strongly considered looking into)..became rather adept at it, and started to carve my own, in the same style...am I now an evil cultural appropriator?  So long as I am not trying to pass it off as "authentic native art"?

I'm not the authority on this, but since you're asking me: I figure if you learn totem pole carving from Native carvers who are willing to teach, and if you put the time in to get it right and understand the significance of the imagery you're employing so you can be confident you're employing it respectfully, you'll be fine. The key point here, though, is to engage with the people whose cultural heritage you're exploring - if you do that, I think it's likely to be seen as positive... especially if you continue to show respect for and towards your mentors and the culture they come from and are slow to claim expertise.

Conversely, if you take a couple of woodcarving classes at an art school and then start copying PNW tribal styles because they look neat, with no interaction with the people whose traditional style you're copying you may have people wonder what you're doing. If you somehow parlay that practice into a commercially successful enterprise and somehow become seen as an expert on the style in the public sphere based purely on copying the aesthetic, you can probably expect to hear people claim you're engaged in cultural appropriation.

Alternately, you can go with what Grinning Colossus suggests and say "cultural exchange is great, and I'm being respectful and that's good enough" and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 12, 2016, 12:45:29 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 12:25:42 PM
How about this example?

White/Euro couple visits Japan...goes to Kyoto and visits a shop that makes/sells traditional kimonos.  Couple buys a set (I forget what the male version is called...may also be "kimono"  :P )...not as a "costume", or something to wear on Halloween...but because they think it is cool.  Why do it?  Perhaps an extravagant souvenir...maybe for "personal roleplay"...or maybe even they think that they want to have their upcoming wedding done in traditional Japanese-style, because they like/appreciate Japanese culture.  Is it "appropriation", even if it may seem "silly", or some other kind of mostly innocent affectation?

I expect you bought a yukata  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukata) rather than the full on classic kimono (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimono)?

As I see it, there's no harm in buying souvenirs like that, nor any harm in using it for... "personal roleplay" (  :lol: ). I'd think having a full on Japanese wedding if neither party involved were Japanese would be somewhere between weird and tacky, but that's just a personal taste thing than anything else... at least if you put it on outside of Japan (though going to Japan and getting married there seems like a fun adventure, and it'd be hard to call that cultural appropriation IMO).

In general - and again this is just my personal point of view at this point - when it comes to interactions between Asian cultures and the West, issues of appropriation (and other cultural political issues) are only really topical internally in the West. Asian-Americans, f. ex., experience racism, erasure, harmful stereotyping etc within the American context - so it's worth being mindful of whether what you do plays into that in any significant way (assuming, of course, that you care to begin with rather than angrily rejecting caring about it as catering to overly sensitive and malign social justice warriors). On the other hand, there's plenty of scope to interact with various Asian cultures on a more level playing field - as more less equal cultural exchanges - and that's all good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 12, 2016, 12:54:03 PM
Feel bad for them experiencing Erasure.  When my wife gets all nostalgic for her New Wave crap, I have to experience it as well :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 12, 2016, 12:57:27 PM
Lol
With an ABC chaser.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 12, 2016, 12:57:54 PM
And Spandau Ballet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 12, 2016, 07:26:26 PM
:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 12, 2016, 08:05:02 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 12, 2016, 12:45:29 PM

I expect you bought a yukata  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukata) rather than the full on classic kimono (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimono)?


Alas, this example was not a personal anecdote.  :sleep:  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 13, 2016, 09:34:10 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/14457318_939126756218153_998793921096278982_n.jpg?oh=2424ede1b66d59b6606f931b3c7f3fd3&oe=58AB2BB3&__gda__=1483656910_26c8e9ad638db3f28b08250469319a56)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 13, 2016, 09:53:03 AM
I am sure Joe Biden would have done admirably.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 14, 2016, 02:45:56 AM
Linked by my oldest sister's husband:

http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=51277

QuoteU.S. CODE: Hillary R. Clinton is disqualified from holding any office in the United States

Sometimes the hard truth appears in the funniest places ... like a Law Library.

Comment submitted by Ralph

Interesting read! Wonder how many people are aware. Word for word from the Cornell Law Library – RE: Hillary R. Clinton's personal email and home-based server

Apparently, the FBI forgot to visit the Cornell Law Library. Word for word from the Cornell Law Library, Former United States Attorney General Michael Mukasey tells MSNBC that not only are Hillary Clinton's private email and server illegal, her mishandling of government property (e.g. State Department emails)  "disqualifies" her from holding any federal office. Very specifically points to one federal law, Title 18. Section 2071.

VIDEO: Former AG Michael Mukasey States That Hillary Clinton Has Disqualified Herself To Be POTUS

For those of us who do not have United States Code[1] committed to memory, here's exactly what it says:

"(a) Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term "office" does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States."
(Source: 18 U.S. Code § 2071 – Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally)

Yes, it explicitly states "shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States."

Shouldn't voters know that? The media won't tell them. So it's up to us.

Can you help hold Hillary accountable?
Pass this on, please.

— Ralph
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 14, 2016, 03:00:13 AM
Ralph. He's my main squeeze.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 14, 2016, 03:08:56 AM
If only Ralph was more up to date and could see that his legal scholar admitted to being mistaken.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 14, 2016, 05:45:14 AM
I can see now we will be listening to this e-mail nonsense for 4 years, like it was with Obama's birth certificate

I don't think it is very healthy for a country when a sizeable portion of the population constantly challenges the legality of their government.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 14, 2016, 06:16:17 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 14, 2016, 05:45:14 AM
I can see now we will be listening to this e-mail nonsense for 4 years, like it was with Obama's birth certificate

And Benghazi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on October 14, 2016, 07:03:51 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 14, 2016, 06:16:17 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 14, 2016, 05:45:14 AM
I can see now we will be listening to this e-mail nonsense for 4 years, like it was with Obama's birth certificate

And Benghazi.

Yeah those special forces guys she sent into Libya and the did a deal with the local islamists to have them murdered.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 14, 2016, 11:11:09 AM
I don't think Benghazi was the best place to store the e-mails. I print all my e-mails and put them in binders.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 14, 2016, 12:19:28 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/14717120_1785260345048649_8307282749790489949_n.jpg?oh=68b19d441a1863f93b54cf6ccfa07050&oe=586A81CE&__gda__=1483191118_759773505924bc2fd21fd7000cbf11b3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 14, 2016, 12:22:32 PM
Did this person never hear of Donald Trump before 2015?

Anyway we already knew he assaulted the USFL.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 14, 2016, 12:23:09 PM
Also, Ivana's rape allegations during their divorce proceedings.

The tenor of the original pic's comments is, "If you are assaulted by a billionaire you're stupid not to seize your opportunity and sue."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 14, 2016, 12:34:31 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 14, 2016, 12:23:09 PM
Also, Ivana's rape allegations during their divorce proceedings.

The tenor of the original pic's comments is, "If you are assaulted by a billionaire you're stupid not to seize your opportunity and sue."

Pretty sure her divorce settlement and alimony was much higher.

There's a hilarious old Saturday Night Live skit from the 80's, where Phil Hartman is playing the Donald, and how he's writing into the divorce contract how Ivana's to be paid only in the giant stone coins of the Yap Highlanders.  Google for it  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 14, 2016, 12:44:44 PM
Just watched it   :lol:

The more things change ...

Also, Phil Hartman :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 14, 2016, 01:00:01 PM
Both he and Jan Hooks are dead. Yet the real Donald Trump and Ivana live on. Thanks God.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 14, 2016, 01:19:32 PM
That's depressing.  Thanks, Valm :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 14, 2016, 01:41:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 14, 2016, 01:19:32 PM
That's depressing.  Thanks, Valm :mellow:

My apologies. I was just going off what Syt said. I didn't intend it to be that dark.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 15, 2016, 02:54:53 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/14671158_10209582011621599_9073888812267096797_n.jpg?oh=33c1f15ead09bfac0550bca8360df8cb&oe=586A0D81&__gda__=1487335124_034425bebf665b018a28bc9d5df07911)

:o

Oh, wait: http://www.snopes.com/jessica-leeds-phone-number-tied-to-clinton-foundation/

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/14720449_1228035590550573_8023536911050560564_n.jpg?oh=8d39bf686de37eb8ee8219d335a92f61&oe=589A2ACA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 15, 2016, 03:03:31 PM
Cheating on your wife is rape? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Scipio on October 15, 2016, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2016, 03:03:31 PM
Cheating on your wife is rape? :unsure:
Any sex with a power imbalance is rape. According to whackadoodle leftists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 15, 2016, 08:14:10 PM
Quote from: Scipio on October 15, 2016, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2016, 03:03:31 PM
Cheating on your wife is rape? :unsure:
Any sex with a power imbalance is rape. According to whackadoodle leftists.

Somehow, I don't think that Syt's sister is a leftist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 15, 2016, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 15, 2016, 02:54:53 PM
Oh, wait: http://www.snopes.com/jessica-leeds-phone-number-tied-to-clinton-foundation/ (http://www.snopes.com/jessica-leeds-phone-number-tied-to-clinton-foundation/)


More Russian sloppiness.  No wonder they lost the cold war.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 15, 2016, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 15, 2016, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 15, 2016, 02:54:53 PM
Oh, wait: http://www.snopes.com/jessica-leeds-phone-number-tied-to-clinton-foundation/ (http://www.snopes.com/jessica-leeds-phone-number-tied-to-clinton-foundation/)


More Russian sloppiness.  No wonder they lost the cold war.
The objective of propaganda is not to cast impenetrable lies, but rather to bombard with many small and ridiculous lies.  It's a shotgun, not a sniper rifle.  And the end goal isn't always to mislead, sometimes the goal is to seed confusion and cynicism in the target population.  I would not underestimate the soulless KGB sociopaths in charge of this assignment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 15, 2016, 10:33:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 15, 2016, 08:14:10 PM
Quote from: Scipio on October 15, 2016, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 15, 2016, 03:03:31 PM
Cheating on your wife is rape? :unsure:
Any sex with a power imbalance is rape. According to whackadoodle leftists.

Somehow, I don't think that Syt's sister is a leftist.

They gladly grab far leftist ideas to attack far leftists with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 16, 2016, 06:54:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14666225_1122943374407700_8119521705072794068_n.jpg?oh=7ac63cc3d13e5eeb41b9f8ec086ce421&oe=5869749D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 16, 2016, 09:31:36 AM
Holy shit, I did not know that suspending your law license because you no longer practice law was is the same as losing it.  Such wanton criminality!  We can't have someone in the White House practicing law without a license! Someone should say something!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 16, 2016, 11:11:32 AM
I assumed that one of them was the military officer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 16, 2016, 02:29:44 PM
I think my oldest sister's husband may have gone off the deep end.

https://thelastgreatstand.com/2016/10/14/u-n-says-will-soon-occupy-america-going-door-door-taking-guns-videos/

QuoteU.N. Says They Will Soon Occupy America: "Going Door-to-Door Taking Guns..." (Videos)

My fellow patriots, do you realize that from the time of this writing, there are only 25 days left until the day we cast our ballots (however meaningless they may be) for the next President of the United States?

The case can very easily be made, that in 26 days, we'll know whether the United States as we've known it will live on to fight, or begin the slow march (or maybe not so slow, who knows), toward the ash bins of history. That is how important this election is, and it's a safe bet that everything you're about to learn in this post, is unfolding in preparation for all out chaos...

There is a tremendous amount of information in this post, so to help people know where to go to find what they are looking for, the first video will give an overall summary of what is known so far about the U.N. troops on American soil, and it's not good.

After the introduction video, there is an article from Mac Slavo of SHTFplan.com that includes the quote referenced in the title. In the article, it says that a U.N. soldier who was stationed here from Norway recently said that "they [the U.N.] were going to be going door to door taking guns, or shooting to kill," and that "[t]hey already had their lists of names, and addresses."

As disturbing as that may be, that should not come as a shock. The presumption has always been that any attempt to disarm Americans would require the U.N., and we've long known about government's "Threat List," otherwise known as Main Core, that allegedly contains the names of approximately 8 million Americans who are to be detained immediately upon the declaration of Martial Law.

Since the article from Mac deals heavily with the possibility of an election overseen by the DHS (the same DHS a federal judge accused Obama of using as his own personal army incidentally), and it's Trump despising Homeland Secretary, Jeh Johnson, after the article will be a video hearing directly from the Homeland Secretary personally.

UPDATE: Be Ready For Any Emergency – Crucial Guide For Any Family

Following the recording of Jeh Johnson's press conference, is an article from Underground World News that highlights (with video) an alarming amount of U.N. hardware discovered in Maryland out in plain sight in what appears to be a staging ground of some kind, most likely for Martial Law as a result of the election.

Since such a huge portion of the 1,500 – 2,000 pages of government documents deal with FEMA Camps, I include a short section of the post that revisits a site found in Texas that is most likely the site of a future FEMA Camp once Martial Law is declared. That is based on information learned within the U.S. ARMY'S REGULATION MANUAL 210-35 CIVILIAN FOR THE CIVILIAN INMATE LABOR PROGRAM.

To conclude, there will be a review of the Pentagon's decision to give U.N. troops authorization to use force against American civilians, followed by links to well over 1,500 pages of the government documentation mentioned that all make one thing abundantly clear: Our military might have been decimated under Obama, but the federal government has overprepared for a domestic war against it's own citizens. All of this is just coincidence though right? There's nothing to it? Sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDVizgXyRfk

Mac Slavo Writes:

We have previously noted that recent allegations of Russian hacking could mean the Department of Homeland Security will be charged with protecting the Presidential election in November. In fact, as Joe Joseph noted in his latest daily news update, the Department of Defense and U.S. military may be joining DHS to ensure a fair electoral process. Coupled with previous reports that "independent" United Nations observers will be overseeing this year's vote suggests there may be some legitimacy to the shocking claims you are about to read.

UPDATE: All Armed Americans To Be Detained In FEMA Camps Starting In 2017!??!

Consider what might happen should a particular candidate be elected to the Presidency, only to have the Department of Homeland Security, DoD or United Nations overturn the vote. And when we say "particular candidate" we are, of course, referring to Donald Trump. With well over 50 million Americans supporting him for the Presidency, if he were to win a decisive victory and then have that victory overturned because of national security issues, one can only imagine the outcry, protests and riots to follow.

The narrative has already been created at the very highest levels of America's political hierarchy and it is not so hard to envision a scenario such as this playing out.

Should such an event come to pass, would the "transition" be peaceful?


SURVIVE THE WAY FOREFATHERS DID BEFORE POWER!!

According to a recent alert posted at SteveQuayle.com, the United Nations may already be preparing for such an outcome:

This does not come from a high level source. Just an everyday average Joe. But a guy that works in the same industry, that always gave a hard time about the tin hat-stuff, recently returned from a Great Divide Concert at which a gentleman just passing by, stopped to mingle with this group of

people. They had a couple of drinks, and this guy states, he likes America, he likes the people. He wished he could dance like, the Americans. Laugh.

He states he had been fighting beside US troops over past 6-7 years. And this is why I feel I need to tell someone over here in the states a lil something. He said he was from Norway. And he would be back in 3-4 months as a part of UN troops. He said there was nothing he could do. But felt compelled that he needed to say something, just to let such good people know what is coming. He said that they were going to be going door to door taking guns, or shooting to kill. They already had the lists of names, and addresses.

I have no reason to not believe the words from acquaintance. It actually pretty much freaked him out. He is rather overwhelmed from the conversation.

From his reaction, and as long as we've been acquainted, I have no reason not to believe what he was told. I just wanted to pass this on to someone with the means to possibly get the word out.

Source: Quayle Alerts

One of our observant readers from Texas submitted a similar comment recently.


HAVE A BETTER PLAN FOR YOUR FAMILY THAN FEMA DOES

Via HCKS:

I just heard some really disturbing shit about something going on in Texas down here. I am sorry but I cannot post it. All I can say is that Chinese soldiers have been inching their way closer to all the major cities including Houston, Woodlands, Conroe, and other major cities and our state government knows that we will be under attack between now and the next 3-4 months. A chi-com soldier just threatened someone that I know very well recently and he is not happy about the incident. When chi-coms are telling Americans in my state where they can go from where they can't go, then we have a BIG PHUCKING PROBLEM. All the military equipment is here in Texas, pre positioned during JADE HELM 15-16 and the soldiers have already been placed in our state and all they have to do is just go out, jump into the UN vehicles and roll out to the major highways, and deploy to neighborhoods. All over 2017 is when the civilians will be getting the worst of it. I know something is up because this link is matching up with what I am hearing.

The UN and Chinese know already in advance that they will be rolling down Hwy 45, Hwy 290, 1960/Hwy 6 from 45 north to deploy to take out these area of subdivision, and one of the biggest major attacks by the UN, and chi-coms will take place between 1960-hwy6-south down to Sugar land. They plan to do the same thing on the Katy Mason rd area, hwy10 area. Good luck when you get to that area.

...We have a very, very serious fucking situation on the horizon.

Now, on its face such claims may sound as if they are coming from the very fringes of the internet. And perhaps they are.

But before you dismiss these claims outright, keep in mind that it has been confirmed United Nations soldiers are actively involved in military training in the United States of America. Moreover, U.N. tank vehicles have been spotted  moving across U.S. highways. The United Nations has even tried to hide the fact that their soldiers and equipment have been deployed to the U.S. as evidenced by the following images showing how they are covering up the logos on their vehicles:

RECALL THESE FOUR HUGE STORIES IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDERL

Video: What is a United Nations Multinational Force Observer Doing on U.S. Soil?

United Nations Troops on U.S. Soil Prepared to Assist With Martial Law? (Videos)

Major Update to Military Movement and Actual Documentation of Their Plans (Video)

Pentagon Approves U.N. Use Of Force Against American Civilians (Video)

[...]

Etc. pp.

:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 16, 2016, 02:36:48 PM
Man, if only the UN had even half the power these people think it does. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 16, 2016, 02:48:54 PM
Is an alleged person allegedly drunk talking to an alleged acquaintance in bar a better or worse source than Wikipedia?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 16, 2016, 02:50:34 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 16, 2016, 02:36:48 PM
Man, if only the UN had even half the power these people think it does. :(

It would if America paid its share! :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 16, 2016, 02:53:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 16, 2016, 02:48:54 PM
Is an alleged person allegedly drunk talking to an alleged acquaintance in bar a better or worse source than Wikipedia?

On the other hand, Seedy has been warning us about China for quite some time now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 16, 2016, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2016, 02:53:21 PM
On the other hand, Seedy has been warning us about China for quite some time now.

:lol:
THIS ISNT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 16, 2016, 03:05:17 PM
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 16, 2016, 03:06:41 PM
Btw, I love this. Who would have guessed that someone doesn't like being threatened?

QuoteA chi-com soldier just threatened someone that I know very well recently and he is not happy about the incident.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 16, 2016, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2016, 03:06:41 PM
Btw, I love this. Who would have guessed that someone doesn't like being threatened?

QuoteA chi-com soldier just threatened someone that I know very well recently and he is not happy about the incident.


Well, that would certainly put a damper on their tour of the Forbidden City, huh?  Especially after going through all that trouble of learning Chinese.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on October 16, 2016, 09:13:11 PM
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14517559_1066269643492026_3055386715292313630_n.jpg?oh=a31ad03779e9ff37f22bc39ea837d213&oe=586A716C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 16, 2016, 11:49:22 PM
http://www.trunews.com/article/if-youre-on-the-fence-about-voting-this-pastor-will-change-your-mind
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 17, 2016, 07:00:50 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 16, 2016, 11:49:22 PM
http://www.trunews.com/article/if-youre-on-the-fence-about-voting-this-pastor-will-change-your-mind

This is awesome  :lol:

It starts off this measured way, the initial buildup makes you think its going to be a "well you know do what you feel best, I'd be leaning GOP but hey". Then it hits with the un-biblical, evil and socialist crap  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 17, 2016, 09:21:12 AM
Donald Trump quotes said by Zapp Brannigan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=406KqNDgKuI

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 17, 2016, 09:24:49 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2016, 09:21:12 AM
Donald Trump quotes said by Zapp Brannigan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=406KqNDgKuI

:D

Okay that's pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 17, 2016, 01:49:33 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/14725534_1302158906481621_6206782532429986575_n.jpg?oh=717279e9a490364f0a0693c0491347c2&oe=58AC48A4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2016, 01:52:11 PM
¡Es muy bueño! Me gusta yousta, señorita.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 17, 2016, 09:25:28 PM
(https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/screen-shot-2016-10-14-at-9-06-12-am.png?w=1200&h=1194)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on October 17, 2016, 10:00:13 PM
Canada, the old couple that lives above the biker bar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2016, 10:03:05 PM
This is Canada calling the United States at the worst time--

https://youtu.be/d5Md7FMNbUY

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 17, 2016, 10:03:35 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2016, 10:00:13 PM
Canada, the old couple that lives above the biker bar.

You're our Mexico. Drugs, gun violence, and corrupt politicians. It all fits :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2016, 10:05:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 17, 2016, 10:03:35 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2016, 10:00:13 PM
Canada, the old couple that lives above the biker bar.

You're our Mexico. Drugs, gun violence, and corrupt politicians. It all fits :D

lol, touche'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 18, 2016, 04:44:38 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 17, 2016, 10:03:35 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2016, 10:00:13 PM
Canada, the old couple that lives above the biker bar.

You're our Mexico. Drugs, gun violence, and corrupt politicians. It all fits :D

We also have lots of mexicans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 21, 2016, 01:27:06 PM
You know what I am really getting tired of on Facebook? Quoting published articles and/or videos from media sources and then wondering why the media is not reporting this much reported story. CONSPIRACY!!111
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 21, 2016, 01:44:53 PM
(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14718798_1464007676947646_2998363160346601295_n.jpg?oh=4acec20905c7ed4b550c50cd99e44de0&oe=58A5A0CA)

(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s851x315/14642086_1149565558425653_4805213267208959066_n.jpg?oh=4dd4f77b370099e79a7757c1e8755f52&oe=58A14B0B)

(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p296x100/14650327_1194047190665215_8493992556442536035_n.jpg?oh=482ff82bd93ae35402a365ba569e66a5&oe=58AD8C97)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on October 21, 2016, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 21, 2016, 01:44:53 PM
(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p296x100/14650327_1194047190665215_8493992556442536035_n.jpg?oh=482ff82bd93ae35402a365ba569e66a5&oe=58AD8C97)
So the standard of decent behavior is now convicts?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 21, 2016, 01:52:37 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 21, 2016, 01:44:53 PM
(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s851x315/14642086_1149565558425653_4805213267208959066_n.jpg?oh=4dd4f77b370099e79a7757c1e8755f52&oe=58A14B0B)

Kind of a hard sell when Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida all vote for Hillary. Bummer about being re-annexed West Virginia, you had a good run.

Edit: Though Maryland and Delware? Wait this is just who the old slave states were. Creepy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 21, 2016, 02:07:38 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 21, 2016, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 21, 2016, 01:44:53 PM
(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p296x100/14650327_1194047190665215_8493992556442536035_n.jpg?oh=482ff82bd93ae35402a365ba569e66a5&oe=58AD8C97)
So the standard of decent behavior is now convicts?  :huh:

Corrections officers are something the stupidest motherfuckers alive.  My mom worked for the Dept. of Corrections at the central office and bore witness to the parade of stupidity.  One thing, turnover is very very high.  All too often officers provide contraband to inmates.  It only takes one time and the inmate can now blackmail the guard.  After that, it's only a matter of time before the guard is terminated.  That is if the guard doesn't kill himself first.  They lost a long time employees because while on a fishing trip the stupid son of a bitch tried to swallow a fish he caught alive.  Another time a truck pulled up to the building and two inmates hopped out of the cab.  They went around to the back of the truck and unlocked and opened the trailer.  The guards then filed out of the trailer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 21, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2016, 01:52:37 PM

Bummer about being re-annexed West Virginia, you had a good run.


Let's keep it real, Valmy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on October 21, 2016, 07:43:55 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13600258_1041223872593519_5629639707510573764_n.jpg?oh=eedc5900c113cfafd11a061c82f007e8&oe=589907A2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 21, 2016, 07:48:57 PM
They forget the pot smoking scandal?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2016, 12:28:38 AM
The uglier one really uglied up something fierce.  Poor girl.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 23, 2016, 03:31:07 AM
(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/14705763_10154767564849548_3505472866887369925_n.jpg?oh=1a861a0a07a824df1a2843a083ec4d20&oe=589756A0)

(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14657258_955426461257199_2325028284197540828_n.jpg?oh=b7dbd2c1825c8748e5d8e682615dd6a5&oe=588BE284)

(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14717082_690443741104527_3563759551335152239_n.jpg?oh=c4ebbd3cd942d0d498dc64ecdee68ea2&oe=58A985D9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on October 23, 2016, 06:18:47 AM
The funny thing is when this election started I was NOT a fan of Hillary at all but these people and their hilarious fear of her being president has helped me embrace her over the past year.

The troll effect is real and powerful, people
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 23, 2016, 08:58:34 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14641919_1450553261626851_1069172270511237442_n.jpg?oh=fdae785df40f601408f54196b803cc36&oe=58A58149)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 23, 2016, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2016, 01:52:37 PMKind of a hard sell when Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida all vote for Hillary. Bummer about being re-annexed West Virginia, you had a good run.

Edit: Though Maryland and Delware? Wait this is just who the old slave states were. Creepy.

What a sad display of mewling submissiveness. "Dear Mr. Putin, you are so mighty and we are so weak. Please be nice to us."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 23, 2016, 01:35:31 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14671279_1371213909591511_4736124966294487351_n.jpg?oh=cbc5b0eeadb3aee092f0d37559131474&oe=588FCFC6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 24, 2016, 02:11:58 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/14264119_1115147131867496_5176246890056943358_n.jpg?oh=787d8d8173e3b447f94518719c657a56&oe=58AB6726&__gda__=1485449870_426495f146f931145f3987bbd98c739c)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 24, 2016, 02:55:13 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on October 23, 2016, 06:18:47 AM
The funny thing is when this election started I was NOT a fan of Hillary at all but these people and their hilarious fear of her being president has helped me embrace her over the past year.

The troll effect is real and powerful, people
I'm still not voting for her!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2016, 02:59:41 PM
Trump pulls off upset in Quebec?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 24, 2016, 03:00:56 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2016, 02:59:41 PM
Trump pulls off upset in Quebec?

Well, at least he's not Trudeau. [/Viper]

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 25, 2016, 02:09:36 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/13475073_1716695361917985_4593275442884007208_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 25, 2016, 02:25:05 AM
Amen.

Share.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jaron on October 25, 2016, 02:47:12 AM
Shared
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on October 25, 2016, 07:03:26 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14568100_685001581668957_4879171072853564755_n.jpg?oh=406112b064caa8e0c5a32ce6e98b5b28&oe=58986F7B)

Here's a brain teaser for you - come up with a costume that complies with those rules. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 25, 2016, 07:25:12 AM
I'm going to wear a clown costume and go trick or treating at Katmai's house.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 25, 2016, 08:21:08 AM
This one is for Ed :)

(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14519800_1571239869647607_1516904318263813412_n.jpg?oh=ed68cb9aa2972bcecb7c2ce2781e1cf4&oe=589E3226)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 08:22:30 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 25, 2016, 07:03:26 AM

Here's a brain teaser for you - come up with a costume that complies with those rules. :D

A zombie? Always a safe bet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 25, 2016, 08:42:53 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2016, 02:59:41 PM
Trump pulls off upset in Quebec?
Surprisingly, Trump seems to have a fan club of his own around these parts.  Don't get why some people like an ignorant loud mouth asshole who doesn't pay his bills.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 08:59:58 AM
Badboys who play by their own rules and get away with it? Yeah nobody loves those guys.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 25, 2016, 09:13:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 08:59:58 AM
Badboys who play by their own rules and get away with it? Yeah nobody loves those guys.
I don't like people who don't pay their bills.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 09:16:31 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 25, 2016, 09:13:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 08:59:58 AM
Badboys who play by their own rules and get away with it? Yeah nobody loves those guys.
I don't like people who don't pay their bills.

Yeah but we are hardworking bill paying squares. We are the people the world pretends to look up but in fact despises.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 25, 2016, 10:15:55 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 25, 2016, 08:21:08 AM
This one is for Ed :)

(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14519800_1571239869647607_1516904318263813412_n.jpg?oh=ed68cb9aa2972bcecb7c2ce2781e1cf4&oe=589E3226)

:)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on October 25, 2016, 01:28:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 25, 2016, 07:25:12 AM
I'm going to wear a clown costume and go trick or treating at Katmai's house.
good way to get shot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 25, 2016, 03:16:17 PM
http://100percentfedup.com/dont-believe-the-polls-massive-silent-majority-avoid-violence-vandalism-threats-from-leftwill-vote-for-trump-video/

QuoteDON'T BELIEVE THE POLLS: Massive Silent Majority Avoid Violence, Vandalism, Threats From Left...Will Vote For Trump [VIDEO]

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2ps46p2qeea548gs4x33cbdz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F10%2Fhillary-crowd-vs-trump-crowd-640x350.jpg&hash=c269af0cea1ec5616bb229f57cc59d3cd17e1eb3)

So many acts of violence and vandalism have been committed against Americans who have voiced their support for Trump, that voters are staying silent about how they plan to vote. That doesn't mean that massive numbers of voters won't be turning out for Trump when it comes to sending in their absentee ballots or showing up to the polls on November 8th.

Don't let the media discourage you from getting out to vote for Trump...and don't believe the polls! Trump's rallies are a pretty good indication of how strong the momentum for his presidency really is. Trump is doing 2-4 rallies every day across America, while Hillary is either fundraising or resting. For the few rallies Hillary is actually doing, you'd think she'd be drawing massive crowds, but the truth of the matter is, she can barely fill a high school gym with people who are passionate about her becoming our next President.

Listen to what former Governor Mike Huckabee has to say about the silent majority Trump voter:

The Silent Majority are avoiding the vandalism, insults & threats from Hillary Clinton supporters and will quietly vote Donald Trump the 8th pic.twitter.com/11qmo5hOSj

— New York City (@WesleyRickard) October 23, 2016

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 03:26:26 PM
What were the actions of violence and vandalism? Did somebody's yard sign get knocked over or something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 25, 2016, 03:28:33 PM
I don't trust Crooked Hitlary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 25, 2016, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 03:26:26 PM
What were the actions of violence and vandalism? Did somebody's yard sign get knocked over or something?

There were some credible complaints that Hillary supporters / her campaign itself, co-ordinated with protestors that shut down Trump's Chicago/wherever Illinois rally back during the primaries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 03:53:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 25, 2016, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 03:26:26 PM
What were the actions of violence and vandalism? Did somebody's yard sign get knocked over or something?

There were some credible complaints that Hillary supporters / her campaign itself, co-ordinated with protestors that shut down Trump's Chicago/wherever Illinois rally back during the primaries.

What would be her motivation to do that during the primaries? Does she just really love Ted Cruz?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 25, 2016, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 03:53:08 PM

What would be her motivation to do that during the primaries? Does she just really love Ted Cruz?

Doesn't everyone? I mean, look at that face. It just spells love.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 25, 2016, 03:58:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 03:53:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 25, 2016, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 03:26:26 PM
What were the actions of violence and vandalism? Did somebody's yard sign get knocked over or something?

There were some credible complaints that Hillary supporters / her campaign itself, co-ordinated with protestors that shut down Trump's Chicago/wherever Illinois rally back during the primaries.

What would be her motivation to do that during the primaries? Does she just really love Ted Cruz?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/oct/20/trump-says-clinton-and-obama-caused-violence-his-r/

Read for yourself and decide (and i purposely found you a politifact link, not a *shudder* breitbart link with a very different tone).

It's up to you to decide if it is a "big deal" or not.  BUt at least this time Trump has some kind of evidence to point to instead of making stuff up out of whole cloth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 04:03:01 PM
I see some people trolling Trump supporters to goad them into getting angry and starting fights. Unless trying to provoke people by saying upsetting things to them is violence I don't really see it. Not that I applaud that kind of nonsense.

I don't see any credible evidence tying the Hillary campaign to that though :hmm: at least not there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 25, 2016, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 04:03:01 PM
I see some people trolling Trump supporters to goad them into getting angry and starting fights. Unless trying to provoke people by saying upsetting things to them is violence I don't really see it. Not that I applaud that kind of nonsense.

I don't see any credible evidence tying the Hillary campaign to that though :hmm: at least not there.

Isn't deliberately trying to provoke violence just as bad as starting the violence yourself?

The more tenuous connection is trying to tie it to HIllary.  They've shown a few people who worked on Hillary's campaign doing this stuff - only one of whom drew any kind of salary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on October 25, 2016, 04:05:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 25, 2016, 07:03:26 AM

Here's a brain teaser for you - come up with a costume that complies with those rules. :D

Mime? Oh no, that's racist to French people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 04:09:00 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 25, 2016, 04:04:54 PM
Isn't deliberately trying to provoke violence just as bad as starting the violence yourself?

No. Saying mean things to people, in an attempt to provoke them into violence, is not the same as committing acts of violence. It is certainly not something I would ever think was awesome, as you can probably tell from my intense loathing of the brainless troll gang on Languish, but I don't consider that violence.

QuoteThe more tenuous connection is trying to tie it to HIllary.  They've shown a few people who worked on Hillary's campaign doing this stuff - only one of whom drew any kind of salary.

They showed a person who had done some work in another state and seems to have been reasonably paid based on that work. Unless something similar happened in Arizona I don't see it. Certainly nothing "credible" which was what you advertised.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 25, 2016, 04:49:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 25, 2016, 03:58:09 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/oct/20/trump-says-clinton-and-obama-caused-violence-his-r/

Read for yourself and decide (and i purposely found you a politifact link, not a *shudder* breitbart link with a very different tone).

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in anything from Project Veritas, they have a track record for creative editing and agent provocateur nonsense.  Not exactly Woodward/Bernstein
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 25, 2016, 05:42:02 PM
The way politifact reported it made it seem there was little doubt about the troll coaching.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 25, 2016, 05:42:02 PM
The way politifact reported it made it seem there was little doubt about the troll coaching.

Little doubt about what about the troll coaching? I mean sure it does seem like somebody trained some people to go troll that Trump rally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 25, 2016, 06:08:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 25, 2016, 05:42:02 PM
The way politifact reported it made it seem there was little doubt about the troll coaching.

They key fact is that Project Veritas refuses to release the original, unedited tapes.  That should be a huge red flag given their by now well-established M.O. of manipulation.  Until and unless they release that material, any claim relying on their work does not IMO merit serious consideration.

As for how poltifact reports it, there isn't much there beyond a little smoke.

I see 3 quotations:
1) "If you're there and you're protesting and you do these actions, you will be attacked at Trump rallies."
2) "There's a script.  There's a script of engagement."

So far - nothing, no way to know what he is saying without knowing what "these actions" are or what the "script of engagement" is.  And the only elucidation is:

3)  "The key is initiating the conflict by having leading conversations . . .  It's a matter of showing up, to want to get into the rally, in a Planned Parenthood T-shirt, or Trump is a Nazi, you know. You can message to draw them out, and draw them to punch you,"

So that's the secret sauce.  Show up - wear a provocative T shirt, and say Trump's a Nazi.  I.e. do what protesters normally do.
The clearly stated premise is that enough Trump supporters are naturally violent and unhinged that is sufficient to cause them to be violent.

The politifact story also goes on to note, as I did to begin with, that the videos are deliberately edited to remove context and that unseen footage often involves PV people "goading" people into saying stuff, causing misleading inferences. 

But let's say we credit all this 100%.  It's not the most wholesome way to conduct politics, but it's hardly the stuff of major scandal.  And what's really interesting is that in order to give the story credence and represent it as Trump has - that "Clinton" people "caused" the violence, you have to accept the underlying premise - that lots of Trump supporters are "psychos" that can be easily goaded into violence simply by wearing a Planned Parenthood t-shirt and calling Trump a Nazi. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 27, 2016, 04:16:54 AM
From my sister:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14705620_10202369269669470_5954902519450841168_n.jpg?oh=b93f22d739b7223c19f37f26b42755c8&oe=589A9D71)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 27, 2016, 05:38:37 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 27, 2016, 09:19:41 AM
That's fantastic
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 27, 2016, 10:29:36 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 27, 2016, 04:16:54 AM
From my sister:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14705620_10202369269669470_5954902519450841168_n.jpg?oh=b93f22d739b7223c19f37f26b42755c8&oe=589A9D71)

I call you: lost sales opportunity for Gillette.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 27, 2016, 10:34:45 AM
Why so sweaty?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 27, 2016, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 27, 2016, 10:34:45 AM
Why so sweaty?

fighting the good fight
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on October 27, 2016, 10:38:50 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 27, 2016, 10:34:45 AM
Why so sweaty?

Spent all day huntin, trappin, and plowing his field.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 27, 2016, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 27, 2016, 10:34:45 AM
Why so sweaty?

He wears a lot of different hats.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on October 27, 2016, 12:08:34 PM
re: project veritas, james o'keefe created it and is behind its shenanigans. o'keefe is the guy behind the ACORN bs, etc. he's a really despicable person.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 27, 2016, 01:52:09 PM
WTF is project veritas, and why should we care?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 27, 2016, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 27, 2016, 01:52:09 PM
WTF is project veritas, and why should we care?

Right wing undercover guys who got the footage of Hillary campaign folks talking about provoking Trump supporters to retaliate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 27, 2016, 02:25:50 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 27, 2016, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 27, 2016, 01:52:09 PM
WTF is project veritas, and why should we care?

Right wing undercover guys who got the footage of Hillary campaign folks talking about provoking Trump supporters to retaliate.

While it is kind of a shitty thing to do, I have to find it amusing that the basic bitch is "Hey, we have people who are prone to violence, and you guys say things that force them to attack you!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 27, 2016, 07:01:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 27, 2016, 04:16:54 AM
From my sister:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14705620_10202369269669470_5954902519450841168_n.jpg?oh=b93f22d739b7223c19f37f26b42755c8&oe=589A9D71)

Why are they using Ted Bundy as their model?  Wasn't he executed back in the 80s?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on October 27, 2016, 07:14:11 PM
:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on October 27, 2016, 08:51:08 PM
It looks a lot more like the Unabomber, who's still alive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 27, 2016, 09:34:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 27, 2016, 04:16:54 AM
From my sister:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14705620_10202369269669470_5954902519450841168_n.jpg?oh=b93f22d739b7223c19f37f26b42755c8&oe=589A9D71)
Putin calls me useful.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 27, 2016, 09:39:38 PM
What does Hindu call him?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 28, 2016, 01:59:28 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 27, 2016, 09:34:43 PM
Putin calls me useful.

Well, that's what he's paying you for.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 28, 2016, 01:05:24 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/20584_621300304669818_9078836897839735877_n.png?oh=63ade6fe7724abfbeba1df3e08a6c64c&oe=58A88F34)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 28, 2016, 01:07:57 PM
Lots of Languish ex-servicemen have Section 8 housing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 28, 2016, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 28, 2016, 01:05:24 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/20584_621300304669818_9078836897839735877_n.png?oh=63ade6fe7724abfbeba1df3e08a6c64c&oe=58A88F34)

I like Terry Pratchett's version better:

"Give a man a fire, and he's warm for an hour.

Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2016, 02:24:38 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xal1/v/t1.0-9/14212690_10154980483726729_5297567834999708698_n.jpg?oh=a8dddbde62a4bb6507b2e16d2d39bb69&oe=589D0270&__gda__=1486744961_c74c2f5c790ec5b08789e0516538754d)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2016, 03:09:53 AM
Syt, your sisters really need to find a new hobby.  Shoot skeet, join a bowling league, a cult, something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2016, 03:44:25 AM
I keep blocking the "News Sites" they share from, but they keep finding new ones.

I remember when a few years back I mentioned to one of them that if I were to visit I'd like to do a stop-over in NYC. "What do you want there? You'll only be robbed ans shot!" ... :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on October 29, 2016, 04:37:45 AM
"Air Jordon"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 29, 2016, 07:08:49 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 29, 2016, 04:37:45 AM
"Air Jordon"

And making a plural noun possessive, no less.

"Air Jordon's"

#MakeAmerica'sGreatAgain
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2016, 07:48:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14639803_260210007714498_1068702721729211468_n.jpg?oh=251150cf9a3460cd4f1c9d2381d3f7e5&oe=589C6DD6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 29, 2016, 10:01:52 AM
Classy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 29, 2016, 10:23:58 AM
I laughed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2016, 04:05:41 AM
From my niece's husband, a sergeant in the Army.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/14721712_1302380819795443_1488126550307314748_n.jpg?oh=cbd76f2531f19ecefc60450ad5ad0a3c&oe=589C511C&__gda__=1487251318_f0dbaf84de193496df5be12db742b812)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 31, 2016, 07:58:42 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 28, 2016, 01:59:28 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 27, 2016, 09:34:43 PM
Putin calls me useful.

Well, that's what he's paying you for.
:mad: Not since the sanctions went into effect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on October 31, 2016, 04:44:00 PM
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14884544_771346819669882_2734388654410894997_o.jpg)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2016, 04:44:44 PM
Lol trump boy is a natural
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on October 31, 2016, 04:48:44 PM
Not orange enough though.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on October 31, 2016, 05:31:46 PM
Ed's kids?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on October 31, 2016, 06:16:59 PM
Too white.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 31, 2016, 06:18:09 PM
Boner's kids only come in matched pairs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 31, 2016, 06:53:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 31, 2016, 06:18:09 PM
Boner's kids only come in matched pairs.

INCORRECT
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2016, 06:55:41 PM
Ed folded with two pair years ago.  CHICK CHICK CHICK ALL NIGHT GEEV THAT MAN HEES MONEY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 31, 2016, 06:56:18 PM
Lolz
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on November 01, 2016, 08:24:03 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14925585_785976611541217_3140500457499112404_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=b6069c97355f26b48019c71b87cd11e1&oe=58CE0FF4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on November 01, 2016, 08:27:40 PM
Lol
I vote Quran Quran.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 01, 2016, 08:29:32 PM
 :lol:

I vote Bomb Jovi
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 01, 2016, 08:38:41 PM
Quarans of the Stone Age gave me the giggles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 01, 2016, 08:42:34 PM
What, no love for Sunni and Cher?  C'mon

Although Bomb Jovi is fucking great
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 01, 2016, 08:43:50 PM
Sunni and Cher was my 2nd pick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2016, 08:49:02 PM
Name the band Mecca Death and then cover "Peace Sells".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 01, 2016, 08:50:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2016, 08:49:02 PM
Name the band Mecca Death and then cover "Peace Sells".

Shawarming Bullets
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 01, 2016, 09:36:16 PM
Only a week more of The Stupidity to go.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on November 01, 2016, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 01, 2016, 09:36:16 PM
Only a week more of The Stupidity to go.  :)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 02, 2016, 01:22:13 AM
Jihad me at hello gets my vote. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 02, 2016, 12:42:00 PM
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14900597_1559805170712284_6654141884702478033_n.jpg?oh=ae64ceeef39a42ff892e894ca795fef0&oe=589D6762)

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 03, 2016, 01:17:36 AM
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/14955961_1810529472549908_3698641800882242769_n.jpg?oh=35f9d033fa7e1e15bce268708c3515e7&oe=58D12D76)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 03, 2016, 11:46:07 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwUZmzUWgAAGgy5.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 03, 2016, 11:47:44 AM
Wait what? Why was that so bizarrely hostile? She did ask.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 03, 2016, 11:52:09 AM
MISOGYNY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 03, 2016, 11:52:53 AM
:lol:  Still not sure I understand what mansplaining is.  Feel dumb for asking the question after you see the answer?  Then the answerer is guilty of mansplaining!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 03, 2016, 11:55:51 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flolsnaps.com%2Fupload_pic%2Fdb9c3b27-well-you-re-not-the-good-boy-are-you-brantg.jpg&hash=9cd4f99b373c470efd40a100cc3861280e6506bc)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 03, 2016, 12:03:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 03, 2016, 11:52:53 AM
:lol:  Still not sure I understand what mainsplaining is.  Feel dumb for asking the question after you see the answer?  Then the answerer is guilty of mainsplaining!

It varies slightly from sidesplaining in that one is done on main street and the other done on the sidewalk. :smarty:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on November 03, 2016, 12:12:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 03, 2016, 11:47:44 AM
Wait what? Why was that so bizarrely hostile? She did ask.

I'm guessing her first tweet was meant as *obvious* sarcasm. when someone replied seriously, she may have taken offense and assumed the guy was talking down to her. though, it is a pretty weird exchange.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 03, 2016, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 03, 2016, 12:03:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 03, 2016, 11:52:53 AM
:lol:  Still not sure I understand what mainsplaining is.  Feel dumb for asking the question after you see the answer?  Then the answerer is guilty of mainsplaining!

It varies slightly from sidesplaining in that one is done on main street and the other done on the sidewalk. :smarty:

Damn it!  Did it twice, even.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 03, 2016, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 03, 2016, 11:52:53 AM
Still not sure I understand what mansplaining is. 

There's the surprise of the decade.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 03, 2016, 03:17:25 PM
Isis V is a cunt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 04, 2016, 07:36:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12345556_530148790506747_2954788769763734423_n.jpg?oh=b4591a46519cbd6e9d9388af13b9585d&oe=588EC307)

... followed almost imediately by ....

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14717224_1309321555777202_790710100652452335_n.jpg?oh=76b17c219c877b5b07ee4e9f510f3612&oe=58CF7379)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 04, 2016, 07:40:44 AM
As the good Lord said: "Love thy neighbor as thyself, unless he's Turkish, in which case, kill the bastard!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 04, 2016, 08:40:41 AM
Yeah, what's up with hate combined with smileys/cartoon characters? It seems to be a "thing".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 04, 2016, 09:13:03 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 03, 2016, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 03, 2016, 11:52:53 AM
Still not sure I understand what mansplaining is. 

There's the surprise of the decade.  :lol:

So you think it's a thing?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 04, 2016, 09:20:32 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 04, 2016, 09:13:03 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 03, 2016, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 03, 2016, 11:52:53 AM
Still not sure I understand what mansplaining is. 

There's the surprise of the decade.  :lol:

So you think it's a thing?

It's a thing.

You probably do it every time you talk to your wife.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 04, 2016, 09:24:20 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 04, 2016, 09:20:32 AM
It's a thing.

Then please mansexplain to me what you think it is.

QuoteYou probably do it every time you talk to your wife.

I treat her with the utmost respect.  Except for the times when I'm a total smartass   :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 04, 2016, 09:59:36 AM
It is a stupid thing.

From what I understand it is the act of explaining to women something in a condescending way using male cultural references.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 04, 2016, 10:27:24 AM
I always thought it was more assuming that because the person in question is a women, she needs an explanation you would never provide to a man in her position.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 04, 2016, 10:30:50 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 04, 2016, 10:27:24 AM
I always thought it was more assuming that because the person in question is a women, she needs an explanation you would never provide to a man in her position.

Yep.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 04, 2016, 10:31:55 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 04, 2016, 10:27:24 AM
I always thought it was more assuming that because the person in question is a women, she needs an explanation you would never provide to a man in her position.

I like this more than my explanation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 04, 2016, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 04, 2016, 10:27:24 AM
I always thought it was more assuming that because the person in question is a women, she needs an explanation you would never provide to a man in her position.

Like urinal etiquette?  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 04, 2016, 10:37:42 AM
Wonder if I ever mansplain?  Hope I don't.  Maybe it's best to play it on the safe side and give a complicated, hard to follow explanation :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 04, 2016, 10:48:08 AM
What if you explain something to a homosexual?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 04, 2016, 10:51:20 AM
Derweiß always says, "please" to his wife.
As in, "Please? The kids or asleep...can we, just this once on a school night?" or, "But honey, it's my birthday...please?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 04, 2016, 10:54:50 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 04, 2016, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 04, 2016, 10:51:20 AM
Derweiß always says, "please" to his wife.
As in, "Please? The kids or asleep...can we, just this once on a school night?" or, "But honey, it's my birthday...please?"

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 04, 2016, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 04, 2016, 09:20:32 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 04, 2016, 09:13:03 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 03, 2016, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 03, 2016, 11:52:53 AM
Still not sure I understand what mansplaining is. 

There's the surprise of the decade.  :lol:

So you think it's a thing?

It's a thing.

You probably do it every time you talk to your wife.

I thought it involved the killing of people of unremarkable appearance.  A combination of "Manslaughter" and "Plain".  It would be alarming if Derspeiss did this to his wife.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 04, 2016, 12:14:12 PM
I don't do that one, either :goodboy:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 04, 2016, 12:20:49 PM
There should be a "gender-fluidsplain", where the social acceptability of the conversation fluctuates wildly as the participates try to correctly interpret where exactly the other person is on the gender spectrum.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2016, 02:38:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14938362_598866070303520_6348475080069432052_n.jpg?oh=8ba2023bd9ee6ef3fad779d07fe6fcac&oe=58CF1447)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 05, 2016, 04:37:34 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 04, 2016, 10:51:20 AM
Derweiß always says, "please" to his wife.
As in, "Please? The kids or asleep...can we, just this once on a school night?" or, "But honey, it's my birthday...please?"

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 05, 2016, 09:16:00 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 05, 2016, 02:38:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14938362_598866070303520_6348475080069432052_n.jpg?oh=8ba2023bd9ee6ef3fad779d07fe6fcac&oe=58CF1447)

4/6, how American does that make me?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2016, 09:18:10 AM
Not enough. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 05, 2016, 09:23:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 05, 2016, 09:18:10 AM
Not enough. :(

Yeah, not owning a gun and not praying, makes you a liberal rather than an 'American'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2016, 09:32:44 AM
I may not drink beer, pray or value Freedom, but at least I'm American enough not to punctuate an initialism like GTFO.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 05, 2016, 09:34:49 AM
I used to pray but never got the results I wanted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 05, 2016, 09:34:54 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2016, 09:32:44 AM
I may not drink beer, pray or value Freedom, but at least I'm American enough not to punctuate an initialism like GTFO.

True Americans do grammar right.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 05, 2016, 09:58:49 AM
Not sure if this is ironic or serious...

(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14980562_10211365802086704_8987883285308708949_n.jpg?oh=81aebfd724917299f8fa3f60cbb7d47e&oe=58CB7BC8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on November 05, 2016, 01:25:17 PM
How is no criminal record a privilege?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 05, 2016, 01:26:55 PM
Quote from: HVC on November 05, 2016, 01:25:17 PM
How is no criminal record a privilege?

Stop oppressing us with your reality-based argument.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 05, 2016, 01:42:05 PM
That damn driving arrest kept me from getting a bingo.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 05, 2016, 01:44:14 PM
I don't know what a "standard accent" is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on November 05, 2016, 02:24:03 PM
I'm not from a former Soviet republic.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 05, 2016, 02:46:27 PM
I'm not Christian. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 06, 2016, 02:44:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Iw2P9oC.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 06, 2016, 02:56:30 AM
Ugh, yeah, Gerhard Schröder really was an asshole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2016, 02:56:44 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14907191_599674836889310_4997156352283668286_n.jpg?oh=f464a7922d2d732d45c18af0ce95f5f1&oe=589627FC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/14906947_965795083525590_7044888339140342393_n.jpg?oh=0c056d05f75a39bc1ef5cac6724cd4b1&oe=589673D5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 06, 2016, 06:34:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/14906947_965795083525590_7044888339140342393_n.jpg?oh=0c056d05f75a39bc1ef5cac6724cd4b1&oe=589673D5)

Ah, Libertarians.  Libertarians have not disappointed me this year, so many went over to Trump.  Hell, many became members of the Alt-Right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 06, 2016, 06:34:42 AM
Why is she lacking one shoe?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2016, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 06, 2016, 06:34:42 AM
Why is she lacking one shoe?

My wild guess is Johnny Appleseed had a protege who only wore one shoe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 06, 2016, 12:38:34 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 06, 2016, 06:34:42 AM
Why is she lacking one shoe?

Benghazi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 06, 2016, 01:36:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2016, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 06, 2016, 06:34:42 AM
Why is she lacking one shoe?

My wild guess is Johnny Appleseed had a protege who only wore one shoe.

Half muslim.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2016, 01:38:59 PM
She insulted someone's mustache and then threw it.  #AlohaSnackbar
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on November 06, 2016, 01:55:20 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 06, 2016, 06:34:42 AM
Why is she lacking one shoe?

Parkinson's disease.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 06, 2016, 05:03:19 PM
I think it's a call back to her losing a shoe during her fainting.

Ben Garrison is anything but subtle. His cartoons are a hoot in being so fucking nuts. He is a libertarian equivalent of Jack Chick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 06, 2016, 08:23:39 PM
Ugh, Ben Garrison.  :yuk:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 07, 2016, 11:39:09 AM
Coming into the home stretch ...

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14485022_1139830856065790_8784186761997014363_n.jpg?oh=bde8635aa836f1c4561be9b0b662610a&oe=589AEF88)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14991827_878765952260177_1988557362991119153_n.jpg?oh=6c6c0ba9ea0a98c322ca19339ffe465d&oe=58C7CD92)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14523217_1828563657363893_7371113574616234814_n.jpg?oh=f083bccab6275d25cab482a18d8ca03c&oe=58CCF547)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2016, 11:51:00 AM
I don't get that last one at all.

It wasn't like they were voluntarily tricked or anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on November 07, 2016, 11:56:47 AM
Wait I thought the holocaust happened because Hitler took all the guns away???
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 01:05:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 07, 2016, 11:39:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14523217_1828563657363893_7371113574616234814_n.jpg?oh=f083bccab6275d25cab482a18d8ca03c&oe=58CCF547)
Wow, that's incredibly insulting to the victims of the Holocaust.

It would make some sense if the figure was about 79 million as that was the number of Germans that more or less "followed along" committing the Holocaust.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 07, 2016, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 01:05:36 PM
....
Wow, that's incredibly insulting to the victims of the Holocaust.

It would make some sense if the figure was about 79 million as that was the number of Germans that more or less "followed along" committing the Holocaust.

Maybe it's just channelling the bollocks about FEMA death camps?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2016, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 01:05:36 PM
Wow, that's incredibly insulting to the victims of the Holocaust.

Especially since the most of the victims of the Holocaust were in Poland and other eastern countries. So unless we are taking a path that results in us being conquered by a virulently genocidal empire I don't get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 07, 2016, 01:32:24 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 01:05:36 PM
It would make some sense if the figure was about 79 million as that was the number of Germans that more or less "followed along" committing the Holocaust.

I think the meme is about the Jews who for the most part didn't resist abuse, deportation, and eventually murder.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 07, 2016, 01:41:18 PM
"the Jews" were divided across many different countries and many different regions, had different social classes and backgrounds, and did not organize themselves as a single body, Protocols notwithstanding.

So I guess his point is that we should knock down national boundaries and encourage ethnic and religious minorities to emphasize their own identities and organize transational militias??
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 07, 2016, 01:53:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 07, 2016, 01:32:24 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 01:05:36 PM
It would make some sense if the figure was about 79 million as that was the number of Germans that more or less "followed along" committing the Holocaust.

I think the meme is about the Jews who for the most part didn't resist abuse, deportation, and eventually murder.

Yet, they did.  They did in the armies of Poland and France and the armies of the Soviet Union.  The Holocaust was a war-time operation, done primarily against defeated peoples.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 07, 2016, 01:32:24 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 01:05:36 PM
It would make some sense if the figure was about 79 million as that was the number of Germans that more or less "followed along" committing the Holocaust.

I think the meme is about the Jews who for the most part didn't resist abuse, deportation, and eventually murder.
They were facing an overwhelming military enemy though. Even the best-armed "well-regulated militia" wouldn't stand much more of a chance than they did. And they did fight back with the means they had, see Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 07, 2016, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 07, 2016, 01:41:18 PM
"the Jews" were divided across many different countries and many different regions, had different social classes and backgrounds, and did not organize themselves as a single body, Protocols notwithstanding.

So I guess his point is that we should knock down national boundaries and encourage ethnic and religious minorities to emphasize their own identities and organize transational militias??

I think the "argument" is that if you know you're going to be hauled off to a death camp you should fight, kicking and screaming, every step of the way.

Problem is I don't know that was necessarily true - Jews knew they were being rounded up, but not their ultimate fate.  And that being the case there's definitely a strong argument to be made for trying to survive and fight another day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2016, 01:57:11 PM
Hitler won by six million votes? Is that who he got over?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 07, 2016, 02:18:20 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 07, 2016, 01:32:24 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 01:05:36 PM
It would make some sense if the figure was about 79 million as that was the number of Germans that more or less "followed along" committing the Holocaust.

I think the meme is about the Jews who for the most part didn't resist abuse, deportation, and eventually murder.
They were facing an overwhelming military enemy though. Even the best-armed "well-regulated militia" wouldn't stand much more of a chance than they did. And they did fight back with the means they had, see Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

Yup. Also Jewish partisan bands, etc.

Problem was, ragged groups of civilian survivors living in inaccessible swamps or hiding in Warsaw's sewers and fighting with whatever they could scrounge or steal were not, in the end, really much of a threat to a regular army.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 07, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Yeah, it's the case of slowly boiling a frog, especially in a democracy. Unless the fascist side is stupid enough to try to do a coup over night, it is very difficult to gauge when it is still too early (and you are hindering a democratically elected government) and when it becomes too late and you get shipped off to Auschwitz. It does not help to have media and Timmays of the world who like to keep people anxious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2016, 02:20:47 PM
Ok but how are we taking the same path? I don't think the Fascist Mexican Army is going to roll over the border and put all Unitarians to death anytime soon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 02:21:18 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Yeah, it's the case of slowly boiling a frog, especially in a democracy. Unless the fascist side is stupid enough to try to do a coup over night, it is very difficult to gauge when it is still too early (and you are hindering a democratically elected government) and when it becomes too late and you get shipped off to Auschwitz. It does not help to have media and Timmays of the world who like to keep people anxious.
It's not that difficult to see for the rest of us. But you were the one who embraced the fascist in this election.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2016, 02:21:53 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Yeah, it's the case of slowly boiling a frog, especially in a democracy. Unless the fascist side is stupid enough to try to do a coup over night, it is very difficult to gauge when it is still too early (and you are hindering a democratically elected government) and when it becomes too late and you get shipped off to Auschwitz. It does not help to have media and Timmays of the world who like to keep people anxious.

Well in Nazi Germany's case there was nothing slow about it. Once Hitler was Chancellor it was almost instantaneous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 07, 2016, 02:26:45 PM
Quote from: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 02:21:18 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
Yeah, it's the case of slowly boiling a frog, especially in a democracy. Unless the fascist side is stupid enough to try to do a coup over night, it is very difficult to gauge when it is still too early (and you are hindering a democratically elected government) and when it becomes too late and you get shipped off to Auschwitz. It does not help to have media and Timmays of the world who like to keep people anxious.
It's not that difficult to see for the rest of us. But you were the one who embraced the fascist in this election.

I still don't think he is a fascist. That's the problem. Half of the people of the US support him. I know some of them. Some of them are intelligent, non-fascist people. Dismissing them as fascist supporters is really unhealthy for any future of the US - unless they turn out to be - which we really do not know yet.

That's the problem with your preemptive fascist attitude - if Trump is not really a fascist, you are the one destroying the democratic system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2016, 02:28:53 PM
QuoteThat's the problem with your preemptive fascist attitude - if Trump is not really a fascist, you are the one destroying the democratic system.

Yeah only a true enemy of democracy would recommend a second amendment solution.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 07, 2016, 02:36:15 PM
The Second Amendment does not give the right to assassinate political candidates.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2016, 02:38:39 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 07, 2016, 02:36:15 PM
The Second Amendment does not give the right to assassinate political candidates.

Yes...see it was a joke. I was referring to a previous statement made by Trump. Get it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 07, 2016, 02:49:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2016, 02:26:45 PM
unless they turn out to be - which we really do not know yet.

That's the problem with your preemptive fascist attitude - if Trump is not really a fascist, you are the one destroying the democratic system.
Understood and I would probably argue the same if I didn't come from the German context that has influenced my political views. The lesson we got from the failure of the Weimar Republic is that you have to act preemptively against the enemies of democracy. You can't adopt a wait and see policy. That said, I would leave it to people who are better qualified to determine whether someone is an enemy of our liberal-democratic order or not. In our cases constitutional court judges.
I know that no such mechanism exists in America as they value freedom of speech higher than just about anything else. I can understand that, but it didn't work for us in the past, so I have come embrace our "militant democracy", which is an anathema to most Americans. Every country has its own traditions, so I hope it works out well for them and their republic is strong enough to not fall victim to fascists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 07, 2016, 03:25:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 07, 2016, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 07, 2016, 01:41:18 PM
"the Jews" were divided across many different countries and many different regions, had different social classes and backgrounds, and did not organize themselves as a single body, Protocols notwithstanding.

So I guess his point is that we should knock down national boundaries and encourage ethnic and religious minorities to emphasize their own identities and organize transational militias??

I think the "argument" is that if you know you're going to be hauled off to a death camp you should fight, kicking and screaming, every step of the way.

Problem is I don't know that was necessarily true - Jews knew they were being rounded up, but not their ultimate fate.  And that being the case there's definitely a strong argument to be made for trying to survive and fight another day.

And really would it make a difference?  It's not like this strategy helped the Indians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2016, 03:45:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 07, 2016, 03:25:10 PM
And really would it make a difference?  It's not like this strategy helped the Indians.

Well the largest surviving nation is the Cherokee and they accommodated so yeah.

And come to think of it that was also how the Jews weathered the storm in Europe for so long.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 07, 2016, 08:29:24 PM
(((Jews)))

Type it right, n00bs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 08, 2016, 09:45:15 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14962782_1167096286672580_1919028843320157520_n.jpg?oh=9cda5fff3569f87c3a42c7e78b3702f3&oe=5897AFBA)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14915220_971475646318947_2340742397239398610_n.png?oh=b70286c54d14574f00538ff3391f5055&oe=588B4263)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 08, 2016, 11:19:24 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14980750_3657843041794_5318111668536116420_n.jpg?oh=1894418287f59f65ab5bac68094dcbe2&oe=58CF884D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 08, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
Christ, Syt...I'm so sorry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 08, 2016, 11:34:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2016, 11:19:24 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14980750_3657843041794_5318111668536116420_n.jpg?oh=1894418287f59f65ab5bac68094dcbe2&oe=58CF884D)

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 08, 2016, 12:08:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 08, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
Christ, Syt...I'm so sorry.

Meh, they're white trash. And I don't think they consider their positions well. "I'm a nurse, and I hate Obamacare. Also, here's a crowdfunding campaign for my knee surgery, because I don't have the $2,000."

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14937396_1389629994388302_2478886900592473927_n.jpg?oh=eeaea8e6a4b1d537eef98ac2752b8289&oe=58C6FF71)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 08, 2016, 12:22:52 PM
 :lol: why would a nurse care about Obamacare
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 08, 2016, 12:53:01 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 08, 2016, 12:22:52 PM
:lol: why would a nurse care about Obamacare

It's more about the (to European eyes) weird situation of working as a nurse in a hospital, but having only minimal medical coverage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2016, 06:40:32 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1488128_400471430086041_1313972038_n.jpg?oh=87808db5b4a2d7dab71e8e3f28ff69b5&oe=58CE2861)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14947604_1039767679467905_8599067696652778725_n.jpg?oh=d416e5f154e40eb8c19f05aaac34e055&oe=58893A9C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 06:42:16 AM
Thanks, Dr. Carson.  :lol: Now I don't have to worry about it. :yeah:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2016, 06:43:10 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 06:42:16 AM
Thanks, Dr. Carson.  :lol: Now I don't have to worry about it. :yeah:

Well, at least now there's a chance of preventing the train to run over the cliff. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 06:44:56 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 09, 2016, 06:43:10 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 06:42:16 AM
Thanks, Dr. Carson.  :lol: Now I don't have to worry about it. :yeah:

Well, at least now there's a chance of preventing the train to run over the cliff. :P

Hey, who needs adrenal glands anyway, amirite?  I can just kinda wing it. :yeah:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2016, 06:57:22 AM
I'm still hoping that things may not turn out as bad as they look, but my optimism and faith in humanity have taken a huge hit today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:02:35 AM
I know we should not laugh at the feeble-minded, but there are actually people on my Facebook talking, in all seriousness, about suicide watch and offering their support for any suicidal friends triggered by Trump's victory.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2016, 08:07:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:02:35 AM
I know we should not laugh at the feeble-minded, but there are actually people on my Facebook talking, in all seriousness, about suicide watch and offering their support for any suicidal friends triggered by Trump's victory.  :hmm:

My sister isn't suicidal but I know she's in quite an emotional state feeling like her country has rejected her. She messaged me about being fearful on how she will deal with victorious Trump supporters in Alaska.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:14:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 09, 2016, 08:07:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:02:35 AM
I know we should not laugh at the feeble-minded, but there are actually people on my Facebook talking, in all seriousness, about suicide watch and offering their support for any suicidal friends triggered by Trump's victory.  :hmm:

My sister isn't suicidal but I know she's in quite an emotional state feeling like her country has rejected her. She messaged me about being fearful on how she will deal with victorious Trump supporters in Alaska.

No offense to your sister, as this is more of a general remark, but I think it speaks to some fundamental dysfunction within one's psyche if one gets so upset about a political result. The fact is, Trump will not turn the USA into nazi Germany, and even if he is worse than Dubya, the actual tangible effect on anyone's life in the US will not be that great. It is a big country, with a tradition of dissidence, so in the worst case scenario, one can always move to some state or county with people who share your views.

I am not saying one should ignore politics but ultimately it has limited influence on our daily lives. People get emotionally invested in it, because they want their team to win, but I think it is healthier to approach it more stoically.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:38:05 AM
I mean, wtf:

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15032122_10157719246315274_2619909357801944162_n.jpg?oh=25cbc2499b11a04e3519bd2d0108f348&oe=58D4D4D3)

He sounds like it was at least another 911.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2016, 09:02:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:14:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 09, 2016, 08:07:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:02:35 AM
I know we should not laugh at the feeble-minded, but there are actually people on my Facebook talking, in all seriousness, about suicide watch and offering their support for any suicidal friends triggered by Trump's victory.  :hmm:

My sister isn't suicidal but I know she's in quite an emotional state feeling like her country has rejected her. She messaged me about being fearful on how she will deal with victorious Trump supporters in Alaska.

No offense to your sister, as this is more of a general remark, but I think it speaks to some fundamental dysfunction within one's psyche if one gets so upset about a political result. The fact is, Trump will not turn the USA into nazi Germany, and even if he is worse than Dubya, the actual tangible effect on anyone's life in the US will not be that great. It is a big country, with a tradition of dissidence, so in the worst case scenario, one can always move to some state or county with people who share your views.

I am not saying one should ignore politics but ultimately it has limited influence on our daily lives. People get emotionally invested in it, because they want their team to win, but I think it is healthier to approach it more stoically.

Says the wealthy lawyer. Sorry, buddy, but there will actually be real negative consequences of having Republicans running all branches of government.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2016, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:38:05 AM
I mean, wtf:

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15032122_10157719246315274_2619909357801944162_n.jpg?oh=25cbc2499b11a04e3519bd2d0108f348&oe=58D4D4D3)

He sounds like it was at least another 911.

He sounds like someone who is upset about forces that want to turn back progress in America...forces that just got handed control of the government. :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 09:05:35 AM
Your call for decorum and calm runs a little thin after you spent months doing the LOLZ LOLZ LOLZ shit dude. :lol:

Why don't you just be cool and leave concern for Americans to the Americans eh?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 09:08:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 09:05:35 AM
Your call for decorum and calm runs a little thin after you spent months doing the LOLZ LOLZ LOLZ shit dude. :lol:

Why don't you just be cool and leave concern for Americans to the Americans eh?

Many of my American friends (thankfully) take the same attitude I do. AmScip or derspiess for example. But fair enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 09:18:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 09:08:30 AM
Many of my American friends (thankfully) take the same attitude I do. AmScip or derspiess for example. But fair enough.

Well of course Spicey does. His team won.

Scip is hoping this brings a new shiny day of Clinton-free Leftism. Eh I think they will just demonize the next person but we will see.

But geez bro the election is only a few hours old. Give us a bit to let the emotions wear off.

I know this probably means the death of TPP. But right now I just hope NAFTA still exists two years from now. The economy is about to contract and prices are about to rise...unless Trump is a gigantic liar which would be nice but he did promise he was not a politician  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2016, 09:22:31 AM
I'm a bit annoyed that I can't even take a fun buzzfeed quiz without facing down a gazillion articles with Trump in the name. Where's my safe space? <_<
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 09, 2016, 09:02:23 AM
Says the wealthy lawyer. Sorry, buddy, but there will actually be real negative consequences of having Republicans running all branches of government.

You're giving the GOP way too much credit.  They don't know how to govern, let alone get out of their own way.  They won't get anything done.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 09:54:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 09:18:20 AM
Well of course Spicey does. His team won.

Team Johnson lost.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 09:57:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 09:18:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 09:08:30 AM
Many of my American friends (thankfully) take the same attitude I do. AmScip or derspiess for example. But fair enough.

Well of course Spicey does. His team won.

Scip is hoping this brings a new shiny day of Clinton-free Leftism. Eh I think they will just demonize the next person but we will see.

But geez bro the election is only a few hours old. Give us a bit to let the emotions wear off.

I know this probably means the death of TPP. But right now I just hope NAFTA still exists two years from now. The economy is about to contract and prices are about to rise...unless Trump is a gigantic liar which would be nice but he did promise he was not a politician  :ph34r:

I am happy about the TPP - I think it, together with its other clones, was an abomination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 10:01:16 AM
My FB feed is going to be interesting today. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 09:54:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 09:18:20 AM
Well of course Spicey does. His team won.

Team Johnson lost.

I meant the Senate :P

Pity about Johnson though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 09:57:25 AM
I am happy about the TPP - I think it, together with its other clones, was an abomination.

Well I disagree. The tide of liberalism (of the old fashioned sort) is receding but once the old tired and proven failures get tried again and fail once more it will return resurgent.

I just hope we don't lose too much ground in the meantime.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 10:13:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 09:54:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 09:18:20 AM
Well of course Spicey does. His team won.

Team Johnson lost.

I meant the Senate :P

Pity about Johnson though.

Ah okay.  Yeah, I burned a couch over that one this morning :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 10:14:28 AM
I deeply oppose the measures giving private actors (companies) the ability to sue governments in private arbitration over legislative acts. This creates huge inequality between various actors (the treaties did not give such right to individuals) which can weaken position of consumers and employees even more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2016, 10:29:08 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 10:14:28 AM
I deeply oppose the measures giving private actors (companies) the ability to sue governments in private arbitration over legislative acts. This creates huge inequality between various actors (the treaties did not give such right to individuals) which can weaken position of consumers and employees even more.

I don't agree with Mart on many things, but this. Worryingly, there seems to be a growing effort, at least in the US, to include such arbitration clauses in consumer contracts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 11:01:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 10:14:28 AM
I deeply oppose the measures giving private actors (companies) the ability to sue governments in private arbitration over legislative acts. This creates huge inequality between various actors (the treaties did not give such right to individuals) which can weaken position of consumers and employees even more.

Don't most trade deals require arbitration?

Anyway back to the purpose of the thread:

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s851x315/15032804_1158229314272081_8286390437815160279_n.jpg?oh=6b95012d848949530a56c62cd43f8f61&oe=58CA3EC0)

Actually kind of logical :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 09, 2016, 11:02:47 AM
I got something that can sink in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2016, 11:09:49 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fmus8zCY.jpg&hash=29c207268f92a720882edb694f52a62de8df3438)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 11:12:54 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 09:57:25 AM
I am happy about the TPP - I think it, together with its other clones, was an abomination.
and which article in it were an abonimation?

And what other clones?  The CETA?  The EU trade agreements?  You mean to tell me that Poland did not benefit at all from being integrated into the EU common market?  You were better off in the goold old days, when you traded with Russia and other soviet East european nations?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 09, 2016, 11:15:05 AM
Comiccon was no joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 10:14:28 AM
I deeply oppose the measures giving private actors (companies) the ability to sue governments in private arbitration over legislative acts. This creates huge inequality between various actors (the treaties did not give such right to individuals) which can weaken position of consumers and employees even more.
Are you really a lawyer?  Because if you are, it does not show.  And you are incredibly dumb for spreading the same lies af the moronics socialist politicians.

If you really were a lawyer, you would have read the latest treaty signed, the CETA, available on the EU site since July 2015.  You would have read the sections concerning arbitration and under what grounds a company can sue a government, and you would know it makes a lot of sense.

Were you a real lawyer, you would also know that most judges know only thing, the law, and like the lawyers they were before, they are totally clueless about everything else.  Therefore, having arbitrators, named as judges by their respective countries (5 from Canada, 5 from EU, 5 from outside EU), with the same power, but who are specialized in trade agreements makes a lot of sense.  Having a dedicated court, like there are dedicated courts for workers health insurance, human rights or tenants&landlords makes a lot of sense.  It removes specialized cases from the court of law so they can deal with more essential issues, like giving criminals a timely hearing so they don't go free due to unnecessary delays.

If a company or government is unsastified with arbitration, as is the case with any form of arbitration elsewhere in Europe or Canada, then they can still use the regular tribunals to assert their rights.

In no way is this a special right to corporation, in now way does this limit the sovereignty of any State, unlike the actual European Union where you can sue a government for changing its environmental laws.  It is expressly forbidden in the treaty to sue a State for such policies, contrary to the lies the left like spreading.  This provision has been there since the beginning of negotiations and the treaty has been made public.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 11:31:59 AM
Thank you Viper :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 09, 2016, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 10:14:28 AM
I deeply oppose the measures giving private actors (companies) the ability to sue governments in private arbitration over legislative acts. This creates huge inequality between various actors (the treaties did not give such right to individuals) which can weaken position of consumers and employees even more.
Are you really a lawyer?  Because if you are, it does not show.  And you are incredibly dumb for spreading the same lies af the moronics socialist politicians.

If you really were a lawyer, you would have read the latest treaty signed, the CETA, available on the EU site since July 2015.  You would have read the sections concerning arbitration and under what grounds a company can sue a government, and you would know it makes a lot of sense.

Were you a real lawyer, you would also know that most judges know only thing, the law, and like the lawyers they were before, they are totally clueless about everything else.  Therefore, having arbitrators, named as judges by their respective countries (5 from Canada, 5 from EU, 5 from outside EU), with the same power, but who are specialized in trade agreements makes a lot of sense.  Having a dedicated court, like there are dedicated courts for workers health insurance, human rights or tenants&landlords makes a lot of sense.  It removes specialized cases from the court of law so they can deal with more essential issues, like giving criminals a timely hearing so they don't go free due to unnecessary delays.

If a company or government is unsastified with arbitration, as is the case with any form of arbitration elsewhere in Europe or Canada, then they still can use the regular tribunals to assert their rights.

In no way is this a special right to corporation, in now way does this limit the sovereignty of any State, unlike the actual European Union where you can sue a government for changing its environmental laws.  It is expressly forbidden in the treaty to sue a State for such policies, contrary to the lies the left like spreading.  This provision has been there since the beginning of negotiations and the treaty has been made public.

No. This is not good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 12:44:00 PM
Okay so I'm seeing people fret about LGBT issues now that Trump has won.  Was there a hot button campaign issue I missed?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 12:45:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 12:44:00 PM
Okay so I'm seeing people fret about LGBT issues now that Trump has won.  Was there a hot button campaign issue I missed?

Yes. The Supreme Court stuff. It was discussed very frequently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 12:49:46 PM
But what issue(s), specifically?  Gay marriage isn't going to get repealed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 12:51:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 12:49:46 PM
But what issue(s), specifically?  Gay marriage isn't going to get repealed.

Not sure. I think Trans stuff.

Could they not repeal the marriage thing?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 12:53:12 PM
Yeah. I am a bit surprised by many people saying that Trump will be somehow disastrous for gay rights. I think nothing will change - at worst his SCOTUS will uphold some law which allows Christian bakers not to bake a wedding cake shaped like a dick - which I am fine with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2016, 01:05:02 PM
Anyone heard of Mike Pence? Sure he's not in charge but there's no reason to suspect wider Republican gov't is going to be excited to keep anything related to gay rights that the courts don't tell them that they must.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 01:09:40 PM
So have Lena Dunham and Miley Cyrus left the country yet? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 01:19:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 01:09:40 PM
So have Lena Dunham and Miley Cyrus left the country yet?

I'm sure you would've noticed the weight shift if they did. BAM #FatShameWow
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 12:53:12 PM
Yeah. I am a bit surprised by many people saying that Trump will be somehow disastrous for gay rights. I think nothing will change - at worst his SCOTUS will uphold some law which allows Christian bakers not to bake a wedding cake shaped like a dick - which I am fine with.

Here in civilization, he can fuck with:
Prosecution priorities
Judicial appointments
Federal funding

All sorts of anti-pillowbiting action, don't you worry.

Pence endorses government funding of conversion therapy, so it'll be a hoot to see taxpayer money go to weeks-long "therapy retreats" for fags to Grab That Pussy.  NOM NOM NOM
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 09, 2016, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 12:51:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 12:49:46 PM
But what issue(s), specifically?  Gay marriage isn't going to get repealed.

Not sure. I think Trans stuff.

Could they not repeal the marriage thing?

Courts, even conservative courts, are loathe to overturn a recent decision.  And usually when they do so, it's only after a long history of a decision being criticized in dissents and lower court rulings.  I don't see them overturning Obergefell.

And remember, the existing vacancy was Scalia's seat.  They balance on the ocurt will be the same as it was before if Trump nominates a conservative.

As  MArti points out, I could see them ruling on someof the trans bathroom issues, religious liberty issues vis-a-vis homosexuality, but IMHO that's small potatoes.

The big question is whether they overturn Roe v Wade though.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 09, 2016, 01:35:20 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 12:53:12 PM
Yeah. I am a bit surprised by many people saying that Trump will be somehow disastrous for gay rights. I think nothing will change - at worst his SCOTUS will uphold some law which allows Christian bakers not to bake a wedding cake shaped like a dick - which I am fine with.

Defense of Marriage Act fell 5-4 with Ginsburg and Kennedy in the majority.  Same majority for Obergefell which made gay marriage constitutionally protected. 

So that could easily go back the other way, which would mean that gay marriage would only be recognized state-by-state, and the Feds would not be required to recognize state gay marriages.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 01:46:49 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 09, 2016, 11:52:21 AM
No. This is not good.
Expanding markets and having an alternative to the US with protectionnism on the rise is not good?  You have a strange perception.

I wonder if Trump will ask of video game companies to develop their games in the US or face a 35% tax...  Because that would be good, certainly? ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 01:48:58 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 01:46:49 PM
Expanding markets and having an alternative to the US with protectionnism on the rise is not good?  You have a strange perception.

I wonder if Trump will ask of video game companies to develop their games in the US or face a 35% tax...  Because that would be good, certainly? ;)

Yeah I think Canada is going to feel some pain if their largest trading partner starts putting large tariffs on their goods. But hey at least no abominable arbitration will take place.

Ah well. You are probably on the winning side here GF and company. Enjoy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 04:30:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 01:48:58 PM
Ah well. You are probably on the winning side here GF and company. Enjoy.
If all these stars move here and take Canadian citizenship, they'll pay taxes here, so it might help Trudeau to cover the deficit without too much pain.
If they keep their US citizenship though, they'll only pay taxes on the income won here while they reside in Canada.  And they'll have to keep paying US Federal taxes on all their income.  Do you know, in these cases, if the foreign tax paid is deduced like the State income tax?  Was it a straight tax deduction or a deductible expense from your taxable income?

Anyway, after seeing that poor Miley crying like this, I'm pretty sure our valliant Prime Minister will fly to the rescue of these poor abandonned souls, trapped behind ennemy lines and offer them a fast way to gain their citizenship.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 09, 2016, 04:32:20 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 09, 2016, 01:19:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 01:09:40 PM
So have Lena Dunham and Miley Cyrus left the country yet?

I'm sure you would've noticed the weight shift if they did. BAM #FatShameWow

I laughed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 04:56:41 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 04:30:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 01:48:58 PM
Ah well. You are probably on the winning side here GF and company. Enjoy.
If all these stars move here and take Canadian citizenship, they'll pay taxes here, so it might help Trudeau to cover the deficit without too much pain.
If they keep their US citizenship though, they'll only pay taxes on the income won here while they reside in Canada.  And they'll have to keep paying US Federal taxes on all their income.  Do you know, in these cases, if the foreign tax paid is deduced like the State income tax?  Was it a straight tax deduction or a deductible expense from your taxable income?

Anyway, after seeing that poor Miley crying like this, I'm pretty sure our valliant Prime Minister will fly to the rescue of these poor abandonned souls, trapped behind ennemy lines and offer them a fast way to gain their citizenship.

Well yeah. You want to give rich people citizenship. Tax paying ones anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 05:07:55 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 04:30:13 PM
Anyway, after seeing that poor Miley crying like this, I'm pretty sure our valliant Prime Minister will fly to the rescue of these poor abandonned souls, trapped behind ennemy lines and offer them a fast way to gain their citizenship.

I think Miley is trying to cry her way out of this; don't think she'll leave.  Amy Schumer said she was kidding about moving to Spain.  Lena Dunham has fallen off social media.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 09, 2016, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 12:53:12 PM
Yeah. I am a bit surprised by many people saying that Trump will be somehow disastrous for gay rights. I think nothing will change - at worst his SCOTUS will uphold some law which allows Christian bakers not to bake a wedding cake shaped like a dick - which I am fine with.

Wanted to follow up more on this.  Because the issues are far more serious than this. 

The EEOC has taken the position that federal laws prohibiting employment discrimination (eg on grounds of race, religion, gender) also applies to discrimination based on sexual preference.  The problem is that the courts don't accept this  No federal appeals court has yet to accept that position.  This was very recently addressed by  the 7th circuit court (covering Illinois/Indiana/Wisconsin) and basically they said that while they agree with EEOC they can't do anything about it because they are bound by prior precedent:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9984328120436860555&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

QuoteThe cases as they stand do, however, create a paradoxical legal landscape in which a person can be married on Satur-day and then fired on Monday for just that act. For although federal law now guarantees anyone the right to marry another person of the same gender, Title VII, to the extent it does not reach sexual orientation discrimination, also allows employers to fire that employee for doing so. From an employee's perspective, the right to marriage might not feel like a real right if she can be fired for exercising it. Many citizens would be surprised to learn that under federal law any private employer can summon an employee into his office and state, "You are a hard-working employee and have added much value to my company, but I am firing you because you are gay." And the employee would have no recourse whatsoever—unless she happens to live in a state or locality with an anti-discrimination statute that includes sexual orientation. More than half of the United States, however, do not have such state protections

This is an issue that will ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.  As of today there are probably 4 solid votes of 8 to fix it.  Maybe Kennedy would be 5, maybe not.  An HRC win would have clinched this.  A Trump win will immediately put this into question once the 9th justice is named and likely out of reach if 1 or 2 more are nominated.   

The old Martinus would have been on the warpath about this.  Can we get that guy back?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 09, 2016, 05:48:28 PM
The old Martinus was too single minded. I like the Jaron inspired version better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 05:51:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 09, 2016, 05:48:28 PM
The old Martinus was too single minded. I like the Jaron inspired version better.

:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 05:53:09 PM
https://twitter.com/MileyCyrus/status/796377820091981824

I'll just leave it here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 09, 2016, 05:55:18 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 05:51:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 09, 2016, 05:48:28 PM
The old Martinus was too single minded. I like the Jaron inspired version better.

:unsure:

Gaze too long into the abyss and all that...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 09, 2016, 06:19:18 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 05:53:09 PM
https://twitter.com/MileyCyrus/status/796377820091981824

I'll just leave it here.

:lol: Jesus Christ. I agree it's super disappointing but people need to chill out lol.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 09, 2016, 06:22:22 PM
So many Confederate flags.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 05:07:55 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 04:30:13 PM
Anyway, after seeing that poor Miley crying like this, I'm pretty sure our valliant Prime Minister will fly to the rescue of these poor abandonned souls, trapped behind ennemy lines and offer them a fast way to gain their citizenship.

I think Miley is trying to cry her way out of this; don't think she'll leave.  Amy Schumer said she was kidding about moving to Spain.  Lena Dunham has fallen off social media.
I doubt we will see a mass exodus toward Canada.  People will want to keep their American citizenship so they can vote in the next congressional elections.  And as much whining as they make, they would hate Canadian tax rates.  Especially if there's some kind of double taxation on their income.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 09, 2016, 07:03:00 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 01:46:49 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 09, 2016, 11:52:21 AM
No. This is not good.
Expanding markets and having an alternative to the US with protectionnism on the rise is not good?  You have a strange perception.

I wonder if Trump will ask of video game companies to develop their games in the US or face a 35% tax...  Because that would be good, certainly? ;)

We can have free trade agreement without taking away local soveiringnity & putting in the hands of 15 experts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 09, 2016, 07:20:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 01:48:58 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 01:46:49 PM
Expanding markets and having an alternative to the US with protectionnism on the rise is not good?  You have a strange perception.

I wonder if Trump will ask of video game companies to develop their games in the US or face a 35% tax...  Because that would be good, certainly? ;)

Yeah I think Canada is going to feel some pain if their largest trading partner starts putting large tariffs on their goods. But hey at least no abominable arbitration will take place.

Ah well. You are probably on the winning side here GF and company. Enjoy.

My side as lost today because you have this weird thing "term limits".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 07:28:46 PM
Thank God.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 09, 2016, 10:09:52 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 09, 2016, 07:20:49 PM
My side as lost today because you have this weird thing "term limits".

Not really. Obama was pro-TPP.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 09, 2016, 11:01:13 PM
I still would vote for him!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 09, 2016, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 09, 2016, 07:28:46 PM
Thank God.

If Obama was on the ticket, pretty sure he would have crushed the pedo-rapist. Didn't Obama carry Ohio twice?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 09, 2016, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 09, 2016, 07:03:00 PM
We can have free trade agreement without taking away local soveiringnity & putting in the hands of 15 experts.
how are we taking away local sov. & putting it in the hands of 15 experts with CETA?
You have the full text and the summaries here:
Link (http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/ceta-aecg/index.aspx?lang=eng)
Just point me in the right direction :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 01:18:27 AM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14947547_10154086704377749_5133761187592329766_n.jpg?oh=e2a3c1726b158f2eaf12a1e9c6d917a0&oe=588B29E8)

(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14980742_10154647473087432_1308604570375378130_n.jpg?oh=8e3d70b96b35f9561c9a3fdb391bdf1e&oe=588AACEA)

Stuff like this is almost worth having a shitty President leading the strongest country on Earth for 4 years. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 10, 2016, 01:28:39 AM
I wonder what my sisters would have posted if Trump had lost ...  :hmm:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14962656_10207667694391113_8661302653781604361_n.jpg?oh=f33806d769c359fe54de39c4ff692daa&oe=58D371D0)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14993403_10209137766354318_6138606433827252984_n.jpg?oh=381072e3de9c49067ee28448be30ff8d&oe=588FD70D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 03:51:39 AM
Be charitable. So far Trump and your sister, at least, have been rather well behaved in their victory. Take it as a positive. I think Democrat supporters have been the sore losers (but not all - and obviously Obama was a class act as always).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:23:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 03:51:39 AM
Be charitable. So far Trump and your sister, at least, have been rather well behaved in their victory. Take it as a positive. I think Democrat supporters have been the sore losers (but not all - and obviously Obama was a class act as always).

Oh this is not you taking a side?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 10, 2016, 06:52:10 AM
I have heard the "sore loser" thing from lots of Trump supporters.  Rather odd considering that their candidate was saying how he wasn't going to recognize the results of an election.  What is bizarre is that Trump supporters are still claiming the election was rigged.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 07:03:09 AM
lol, I don't think you can get anymore "sore loser" than Obama's congresses. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 08:32:03 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 07:03:09 AM
lol, I don't think you can get anymore "sore loser" than Obama's congresses. 

Marty only regards social media as important. Actual political actions are cool.

QuoteBe charitable.

Yes. When are you going to start?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 08:33:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 10, 2016, 06:52:10 AM
Rather odd considering that their candidate was saying how he wasn't going to recognize the results of an election.

Yeah. You want to address that Marty?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 10, 2016, 08:40:36 AM
I would be disgusted by the Trump crowd crooning about "unity" and bullshit like that in the face of their candidates campaign, but I am pretty beyond any meaningful response to anything at this point.

When Obama was elected the GOP made a conscious decision to oppose everything he did, regardless of its merits. And that is exactly what they did for eight years.

Then they nominated someone who ran on an explicit platform of dis-unity, division, bigotry, and identity politics.

He has zero standing to expect anyone to back him other than the people who WANTED a racist, bigoted douchebag running the country. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 10, 2016, 08:43:11 AM
Marti is just a piece of shit full of shit as always.  Considering how much of a disaster this election has been to everything the liberals stand for, they have taken this remarkably well (though maybe the shock is not wearing off yet).  Contrast this with how people reacted to Obama's win, and continued to react for all of the following years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 08:48:05 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2016, 08:40:36 AM
I would be disgusted by the Trump crowd crooning about "unity" and bullshit like that in the face of their candidates campaign, but I am pretty beyond any meaningful response to anything at this point.

When Obama was elected the GOP made a conscious decision to oppose everything he did, regardless of its merits. And that is exactly what they did for eight years.

Then they nominated someone who ran on an explicit platform of dis-unity, division, bigotry, and identity politics.

He has zero standing to expect anyone to back him other than the people who WANTED a racist, bigoted douchebag running the country. Good luck with that.

I fully agree, but then what are the options? Who would benefit if the Democrats picked up the playbook of the GOP and started being obstructive sons of bitches just for the heck of it? Apart from Trump, I mean? Because that is the safest way to guarantee a 2nd (and 3rd and 4th, as things stand) term. Give him an easily identifiable domestic scapegoat to blame for all the big mess he is bound to create.

Sure, by opposing only what needs to be opposed as a matter of principle, it still means a long and conflict-ridden 4 years. But it would be a grave and strategic error to just dismiss all hints of cooperation because its Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 08:52:23 AM
The Democrats, thus far, have never done that. Well some have tried but they have always infamously lacked the discipline to do it.

But, eventually, they will as the political divisions become more entrenched. Hillary got tons of shit for all the times she voted to go along with Dubya.

Eventually they will also provoke some sort of Constitutional crisis, well actually I guess it kind of has already.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 08:54:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 08:48:05 AM
But it would be a grave and strategic error to just dismiss all hints of cooperation because its Trump.

Depends. What if the base revolts everytime you work with him?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 08:58:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 08:54:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 08:48:05 AM
But it would be a grave and strategic error to just dismiss all hints of cooperation because its Trump.

Depends. What if the base revolts everytime you work with him?

I don't know if that'll happen with the Dems. After all, we actually want a working country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 08:54:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 08:48:05 AM
But it would be a grave and strategic error to just dismiss all hints of cooperation because its Trump.

Depends. What if the base revolts everytime you work with him?

Well yeah.

I think I mentioned this hear a few years ago already, but the evolution of the political life in the US over the last 8-10 years have been worryingly similar to Hungary's since the late 90s.

And with Trump's victory the similarities don't exactly go away.

As you say, odds are, this will develop into even more of a trench war of two sides. And the side with the better fear-mongering and hysterics will win, sweeping all public institutions, and enacting a reign which will be long, but not as long as the lasting damages.

Heck, with Trump at the helm and Congress and Senate in GOP hands, this might have already started.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 10, 2016, 09:02:19 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 08:48:05 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2016, 08:40:36 AM
I would be disgusted by the Trump crowd crooning about "unity" and bullshit like that in the face of their candidates campaign, but I am pretty beyond any meaningful response to anything at this point.

When Obama was elected the GOP made a conscious decision to oppose everything he did, regardless of its merits. And that is exactly what they did for eight years.

Then they nominated someone who ran on an explicit platform of dis-unity, division, bigotry, and identity politics.

He has zero standing to expect anyone to back him other than the people who WANTED a racist, bigoted douchebag running the country. Good luck with that.

I fully agree, but then what are the options? Who would benefit if the Democrats picked up the playbook of the GOP and started being obstructive sons of bitches just for the heck of it? Apart from Trump, I mean? Because that is the safest way to guarantee a 2nd (and 3rd and 4th, as things stand) term. Give him an easily identifiable domestic scapegoat to blame for all the big mess he is bound to create.

Sure, by opposing only what needs to be opposed as a matter of principle, it still means a long and conflict-ridden 4 years. But it would be a grave and strategic error to just dismiss all hints of cooperation because its Trump.

Here is the thing though.

I don't want Trump to fail as President.

But I am completely certain that he WILL fail.

That being the case, I don't think anyone has any obligation to help him do as much damage as possible when he does fail, and it is 100% certain that he is going to fail, because it is his nature to do so.

He isn't going to get "the best people". He believes HE is the best people, and has said so time and again. Only HE can defeat ISIS. Only HE knows that global warming is a hoax. Only HE can negotiate the best deals.

This is going to be an epic failure. The only thing to do is control the crash and mitigate the damage. And you can't do that trying to work with the guy flying the plane into the mountain because he is TRYING to fly the plane into the mountain.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 10, 2016, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 08:52:23 AM
The Democrats, thus far, have never done that. Well some have tried but they have always infamously lacked the discipline to do it.

But, eventually, they will as the political divisions become more entrenched. Hillary got tons of shit for all the times she voted to go along with Dubya.

Eventually they will also provoke some sort of Constitutional crisis, well actually I guess it kind of has already.
Yes, Democrats have definitely played a lot nicer than Republicans have been, probably for the last 40 years.  To some extent this difference is intrinsic, just like the fact that during wars western powers will always commit less atrocities than non-western powers.  That's part of our values and what gives us moral high ground. 

But if playing nice makes you lose a lot of ground to powers that don't, then at some point you have to counter ruthlessness with ruthlessness, as dirty as that makes you feel.  Being virtuous doesn't matter when you're dead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Lettow77 on November 10, 2016, 09:10:32 AM
http://www.businessinsider.com/calexit-explainer-california-plans-to-secede-2016-11

I'd be an enthusiastic supporter of California's secession from the union. There's no need for the respective nations of North America to force themselves to coexist in a single political structure if the contention is too much to bear. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 09:14:03 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 10, 2016, 09:04:59 AM
o some extent this difference is intrinsic, just like the fact that during wars western powers will always commit less atrocities than non-western powers.  That's part of our values and what gives us moral high ground. 


(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fde.evangelischer-widerstand.de%2Fpictures%2Fdocuments%2FD5305%2FD5305-1.jpg&hash=a9157f697b4e46b2f863e498e5f7de50499e59e7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 09:16:18 AM
Even we have our limits. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:37:40 AM
Fahdiz had an interesting post on FB about how the 2nd Amendment may be useful in defending against tyrants like Trump.  Then he said his side needed to take back the Gadsden flag.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 10, 2016, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:37:40 AM
Fahdiz had an interesting post on FB about how the 2nd Amendment may be useful in defending against tyrants like Trump.  Then he said his side needed to take back the Gadsden flag.

That sounds scary for a guy that was freaked out about a video game.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 10, 2016, 09:45:48 AM
Fuck that flag. It's barely better than the Confederate one.

The Cubs season has transform Fahdiz alot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 10:05:25 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:37:40 AM
Fahdiz had an interesting post on FB about how the 2nd Amendment may be useful in defending against tyrants like Trump.  Then he said his side needed to take back the Gadsden flag.

I look forward to the Bernie Bro militias forming up in the mountains. We could finally get some action up there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 10, 2016, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 10:05:25 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:37:40 AM
Fahdiz had an interesting post on FB about how the 2nd Amendment may be useful in defending against tyrants like Trump.  Then he said his side needed to take back the Gadsden flag.

I look forward to the Bernie Bro militias forming up in the mountains. We could finally get some action up there.

The gun needs to be artesinal and made from kale.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on November 10, 2016, 10:11:43 AM
Will the supply of Ben and Jerry's be disrupted?  :(

NO BLOOD FOR CHUNKY MONKY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 10, 2016, 10:15:13 AM
Quote from: Caliga on November 10, 2016, 10:11:43 AM
Will the supply of Ben and Jerry's be disrupted?  :(

NO BLOOD FOR CHUNKY MONKY

Already sold out to Unilever...no longer legit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on November 10, 2016, 10:17:37 AM
They still manufacture the US supply in Vermont though, right? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 10:23:31 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 10, 2016, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 10:05:25 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:37:40 AM
Fahdiz had an interesting post on FB about how the 2nd Amendment may be useful in defending against tyrants like Trump.  Then he said his side needed to take back the Gadsden flag.

I look forward to the Bernie Bro militias forming up in the mountains. We could finally get some action up there.

The gun needs to be artesinal and made from kale.

LOCALLY SOURCED
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 10, 2016, 10:33:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15027818_971813266282835_3186073352877322423_n.jpg?oh=f8fe214b76f8f05a5bd5d5949f1c9080&oe=58C9AF77)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 10, 2016, 11:35:08 AM
Well, while I do support the idea of spending a lot of tax money on education, because there is no better investment a community can make, I do detest the term "free". It is not, and insisting on using it reveals the totally selfish agenda of those pushing for it. Call it state-sponsored and you have my sympathy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 10, 2016, 11:45:02 AM
From my niece's husband:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14639631_1597534883888317_5123886171057238464_n.jpg?oh=d6403d823969a2f401b739afc7184bdd&oe=58C36301)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15027575_1363781816988822_2621546381269626428_n.jpg?oh=fbc56ac5c9a0612a691bdcabf33cd956&oe=58927E18)
"With all the negativity going around on Facebook right now, I just wanted to post something positive. "

And a video with blacks beating up a white guy to which he commented, "Kill them."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 11:49:18 AM
I find it amusing he claimed people weren't sexist and then proceeds to use a sexist slur  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 11:49:43 AM
Is this your sister's husband in the picture?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 11:49:18 AM
I find it amusing he claimed people weren't sexist and then proceeds to use a sexist slur  :lol:

Where? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 11:50:29 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 11:49:43 AM
Is this your sister's husband in the picture?

I hope not. He has AIDS.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 11:54:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 11:49:18 AM
I find it amusing he claimed people weren't sexist and then proceeds to use a sexist slur  :lol:

Where? :unsure:

Well you regularly use every sexist slur you can so I guess it would just seem normal to you :lol:

'pussification'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 10, 2016, 11:56:08 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 11:49:43 AM
Is this your sister's husband in the picture?
:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 11:49:43 AM
Is this your sister's husband in the picture?

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 10, 2016, 12:55:36 PM
Syt, that's your UNCLE?! Hook us up, dude.

Can't believe you hid this all these years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 02:56:20 PM
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 10, 2016, 04:11:00 PM
(https://s17.postimg.org/qe2v3nvkf/Ugh.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o9ii2ktxn/)free photo hosting (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 04:11:36 PM
Good old Scipio.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 10, 2016, 04:16:36 PM
Ank.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2016, 04:18:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 10, 2016, 04:16:36 PM
Ank.

Ah. I must have unfollowed him at some point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 04:27:50 PM
Well, considering all the SS-Trumpenfürers I know of in the service, it's kind of reassuring to know there's at least one member of the resistance on the inside.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 04:27:50 PM
Well, considering all the SS-Trumpenfürers I know of in the service, it's kind of reassuring to know there's at least one member of the resistance on the inside.

It seems Spanky has become a fully paid member of the Berniebro Trump/Clinton moral equivalency cadre.  Nothing reassuring about that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 04:34:01 PM
Welll...somebody's got to sneak the briefcase into bunker.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 04:45:56 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:14:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 09, 2016, 08:07:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 09, 2016, 08:02:35 AM
I know we should not laugh at the feeble-minded, but there are actually people on my Facebook talking, in all seriousness, about suicide watch and offering their support for any suicidal friends triggered by Trump's victory.  :hmm:

My sister isn't suicidal but I know she's in quite an emotional state feeling like her country has rejected her. She messaged me about being fearful on how she will deal with victorious Trump supporters in Alaska.

No offense to your sister, as this is more of a general remark, but I think it speaks to some fundamental dysfunction within one's psyche if one gets so upset about a political result. The fact is, Trump will not turn the USA into nazi Germany, and even if he is worse than Dubya, the actual tangible effect on anyone's life in the US will not be that great. It is a big country, with a tradition of dissidence, so in the worst case scenario, one can always move to some state or county with people who share your views.

I am not saying one should ignore politics but ultimately it has limited influence on our daily lives. People get emotionally invested in it, because they want their team to win, but I think it is healthier to approach it more stoically.

I'm going to have to concur with my Polish comrade here. Lots of friends and colleagues hysterical to a ridiculous degree.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 04:52:01 PM
Yeah garb's sis stop whining.  If things get bad you can just quit your job and move to another state hundreds of miles away, no hardship. Two random Europeans assure us that you have no reason to be anxious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 10, 2016, 04:59:24 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 04:52:01 PM
Yeah garb's sis stop whining.  If things get bad you can just quit your job and move to another state hundreds of miles away, no hardship. Two random Europeans assure us that you have no reason to be anxious.

Nothing wrong with anxious.  Hell I'm anxious and it's not my country.

But weeping, sobbing, loosing your shit - it's really kind of unwarranted.  So far.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on November 10, 2016, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 04:52:01 PM
Yeah garb's sis stop whining.  If things get bad you can just quit your job and move to another state hundreds of miles away, no hardship. Two random Europeans assure us that you have no reason to be anxious.

QuoteI've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened. — Mark Twain
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on November 10, 2016, 05:08:58 PM


QuoteMy dear, in the midst of hate, I found there was, within me, an invincible love. In the midst of tears, I found there was, within me, an invincible smile. In the midst of chaos, I found there was, within me, an invincible calm. I realized, through it all, that...in the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer. And that makes me happy. For it says that no matter how hard the world pushes against me, within me, there's something stronger – something better, pushing right back. — Albert Camus
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 05:11:07 PM
My grandparents didn't worry enough about politics and found themselves Jewish and in the Reich in the late 30s, which proved somewhat of an inconvenience.

Obviously this is not the same thing, but history is littered with dead people and refugees who were overly relaxed about political developments.  A little anxiety never killed anyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on November 10, 2016, 05:11:23 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fhitchhikers%2Fimages%2F0%2F0d%2FGuide_from_movie.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20080505051215&hash=de02b3a3d0cd73511a46acdded469718b4373239)


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 05:22:04 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 04:52:01 PM
Yeah garb's sis stop whining.  If things get bad you can just quit your job and move to another state hundreds of miles away, no hardship. Two random Europeans assure us that you have no reason to be anxious.

Oh don't play coy. There's an enormous difference between being anxious and worried on the one hand, and fearful sobbing and suicide threats on the other.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:52:24 PM
I don't think she is still sobbing. :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 05:56:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.

You know what? It's this kind of sexist, racist nonsense that got people to vote for Trump. If you want to ensure a second Trump term, by all means, go ahead and continue on the social justice train and demonize people for their race, sex or class.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 10, 2016, 05:56:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.

That's going to leave a mark.

Or rather, it SHOULD leave a mark. I suspect they are impervious though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 06:03:28 PM
I tend towards Grab On's side.  At the very, very least, there is anecdotal evidence of racially inspired attacks already taking place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on November 10, 2016, 06:06:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.

I suppose having some wealthy black men telling you how to feel and act was a nice change of pace.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: citizen k on November 10, 2016, 06:06:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.

I suppose having some wealthy black men telling you how to feel and act was a nice change of pace.

Seriously, what drugs are you on? They seem pretty fucked up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:10:23 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 10, 2016, 05:56:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.

That's going to leave a mark.

Or rather, it SHOULD leave a mark. I suspect they are impervious though.

Well of course. They are both just here for the LULZ.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:11:46 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 05:56:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.

You know what? It's this kind of sexist, racist nonsense that got people to vote for Trump. If you want to ensure a second Trump term, by all means, go ahead and continue on the social justice train and demonize people for their race, sex or class.

True, I should know my place. I don't know why I'm getting all uppity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:12:20 PM
I am starting to see some encouraging signs from my Facebook friends in the US that maybe, just maybe, extreme identity politics is not a winning strategy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:13:10 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:11:46 PM
True, I should know my place. I don't know why I'm getting all uppity.

You're the one attacking me on race, sex and class grounds. I would never return the favor. I'm merely calling you out for your nasty identity politics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:18:42 PM
It's funny how garbo, with a rich family, Stanford degree, cushy overseas job and a central London flat, is playing a victim card here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:19:10 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:13:10 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:11:46 PM
True, I should know my place. I don't know why I'm getting all uppity.

You're the one attacking me on race, sex and class grounds. I would never return the favor. I'm merely calling you out for your nasty identity politics.

But that's what you are. A person with the power and privilege to never have to worry about outcomes a Trump presidency. I'm certainly sure that's a nice existence. Don't really know where that leaves you as an authority to speak on to what is or is not appropriate for those of us who do have to worry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:18:42 PM
It's funny how garbo, with a rich family, Stanford degree, cushy overseas job and a central London flat, is playing a victim card here.

I know!  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:19:10 PM
But that's what you are. A person with the power and privilege to never have to worry about outcomes a Trump presidency. I'm certainly sure that's a nice existence. Don't really know where that leaves you as an authority to speak on to what is or is not appropriate for those of us who do have to worry.

Oh that's right, because I'm the wrong gender, class and skin color, I can't have an opinion. So sorry, enlightened overlord.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:21:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:18:42 PM
It's funny how garbo, with a rich family, Stanford degree, cushy overseas job and a central London flat, is playing a victim card here.

Actually, I noted in another thread that I mostly should be okay with a Trump presidency. But I have developed the skill of empathy and also don't really feel excited about people who think they are vindicated in trashing minorities. Like Brexit, made the world a little bit less safe and a little bit less comfortable for me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:19:10 PM
But that's what you are. A person with the power and privilege to never have to worry about outcomes a Trump presidency. I'm certainly sure that's a nice existence. Don't really know where that leaves you as an authority to speak on to what is or is not appropriate for those of us who do have to worry.

Oh that's right, because I'm the wrong gender, class and skin color, I can't have an opinion. So sorry, enlightened overlord.

You can certainly have an opinion but you can't dictate mine. Sorry.

Also, I'm not sure how you are going to try to spin that I somehow have more power...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:23:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:21:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:18:42 PM
It's funny how garbo, with a rich family, Stanford degree, cushy overseas job and a central London flat, is playing a victim card here.

Actually, I noted in another thread that I mostly should be okay with a Trump presidency. But I have developed the skill of empathy and also don't really feel excited about people who think they are vindicated in trashing minorities. Like Brexit, made the world a little bit less safe and a little bit less comfortable for me.

I suspect that much of the reported "violence" is manufactured or exaggerated. A smaller part is real, and driven by retribution. People feel free to respond after years of "you're a fucking white male!".

Of course, I don't condone any violence. That's for assholes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:25:19 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:23:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:21:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:18:42 PM
It's funny how garbo, with a rich family, Stanford degree, cushy overseas job and a central London flat, is playing a victim card here.

Actually, I noted in another thread that I mostly should be okay with a Trump presidency. But I have developed the skill of empathy and also don't really feel excited about people who think they are vindicated in trashing minorities. Like Brexit, made the world a little bit less safe and a little bit less comfortable for me.

I suspect that much of the reported "violence" is manufactured or exaggerated. A smaller part is real, and driven by retribution. People feel free to respond after years of "you're a fucking white male!".

Of course, I don't condone any violence. That's for assholes.

Because life was peachy keen for minorities (and I'm including women in that) before we had a presidential candidate and president elect who stirred up racism/xenophobia/misogyny.

Oh and that's cool. You don't condone violence, you just condone people saying terrible things to one another. Awesome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:27:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:25:19 PM
Oh and that's cool. You don't condone violence, you just condone people saying terrible things to one another. Awesome.

Words are not violence. The fact that you do not see the difference is emblematic of your failed ideology.

Your victimhood gambit won't work any more. The spell is broken.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:28:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:19:10 PM
But that's what you are. A person with the power and privilege to never have to worry about outcomes a Trump presidency. I'm certainly sure that's a nice existence. Don't really know where that leaves you as an authority to speak on to what is or is not appropriate for those of us who do have to worry.

Oh that's right, because I'm the wrong gender, class and skin color, I can't have an opinion. So sorry, enlightened overlord.

You can certainly have an opinion but you can't dictate mine. Sorry.

Also, I'm not sure how you are going to try to spin that I somehow have more power...

He can't dictate your opinion but he can criticise it. At least this used to be the case in that strange alternative world where opinions were still based on facts and not on feelings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 06:30:14 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:23:28 PM
A smaller part is real, and driven by retribution. People feel free to respond after years of "you're a fucking white male!".

This is pretty ridiculous.  Like terrorism apologism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:30:27 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:27:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:25:19 PM
Oh and that's cool. You don't condone violence, you just condone people saying terrible things to one another. Awesome.

Words are not violence. The fact that you do not see the difference is emblematic of your failed ideology.

Your victimhood gambit won't work any more. The spell is broken.

Ah, I gotcha. Sticks and stones will hurt my bones but words will never hurt me. Damn, I didn't know we were still working off playground wisdom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:25:19 PMOh and that's cool. You don't condone violence, you just condone people saying terrible things to one another. Awesome.

That distinction is the cornerstone of Western civilization. Unfortunately your shrill progressive left buddies have been trying to muddle it beyond recognition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:32:49 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:25:19 PMOh and that's cool. You don't condone violence, you just condone people saying terrible things to one another. Awesome.

That distinction is the cornerstone of Western civilization. Unfortunately your shrill progressive left buddies have been trying to muddle it beyond recognition.

Sorry, darling, but the cornerstone of Western Civilization isn't treating people poorly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:33:15 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 06:30:14 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:23:28 PM
A smaller part is real, and driven by retribution. People feel free to respond after years of "you're a fucking white male!".

This is pretty ridiculous.  Like terrorism apologism.

There's a vast chasm between explanation and apologism. You know that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:33:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:32:49 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:25:19 PMOh and that's cool. You don't condone violence, you just condone people saying terrible things to one another. Awesome.

That distinction is the cornerstone of Western civilization. Unfortunately your shrill progressive left buddies have been trying to muddle it beyond recognition.

Sorry, darling, but the cornerstone of Western Civilization isn't treating people poorly.

Freedom of speech is. That's why your founding fathers made it the first amendment to the constitution. Of course they were also a bunch of white males, so...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on November 10, 2016, 06:37:34 PM
the wife of someone I know, who voted for Hillary, is seriously mad at him because he's a white male and thus is part of the system that elected trump :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:37:34 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:33:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:32:49 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:25:19 PMOh and that's cool. You don't condone violence, you just condone people saying terrible things to one another. Awesome.

That distinction is the cornerstone of Western civilization. Unfortunately your shrill progressive left buddies have been trying to muddle it beyond recognition.

Sorry, darling, but the cornerstone of Western Civilization isn't treating people poorly.

Freedom of speech is. That's why your founding fathers made it the first amendment to the constitution. Of course they were also a bunch of white males, so...

Of course, despite your nonsense, we all know I'm not calling for those running around being racist, homophobic and sexist to be put in jail because of their speech or that they should be subjected to violence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:38:07 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on November 10, 2016, 06:37:34 PM
the wife of someone I know, who voted for Hillary, is seriously mad at him because he's a white male and thus is part of the system that elected trump :D

Well she is clearly an idiot...though is he the bigger idiot for marrying her? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on November 10, 2016, 06:39:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:38:07 PMWell she is clearly an idiot...though is he the bigger idiot for marrying her? :hmm:

not disagreeing :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
You can feel the volkdeutsch uniting in this thread. GG guys, keep telling the brown man it's all his fault  :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on November 10, 2016, 06:41:32 PM
Someone spray painted a wall near my house with Donald Trump.  Never seen any graffiti around here before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 10, 2016, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:27:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:25:19 PM
Oh and that's cool. You don't condone violence, you just condone people saying terrible things to one another. Awesome.

Words are not violence. The fact that you do not see the difference is emblematic of your failed ideology.

Your victimhood gambit won't work any more. The spell is broken.

Ah, white resentment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:42:00 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
You can feel the volkdeutsch uniting in this thread. GG guys, keep telling the brown man it's all his fault  :wacko:
:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:42:00 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
You can feel the volkdeutsch uniting in this thread. GG guys, keep telling the brown man it's all his fault  :wacko:
:huh:

Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 05:56:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.

You know what? It's this kind of sexist, racist nonsense that got people to vote for Trump. If you want to ensure a second Trump term, by all means, go ahead and continue on the social justice train and demonize people for their race, sex or class.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:43:42 PM
QuoteBATON ROUGE, La. — A Louisiana college student has acknowledged she fabricated a report that she was assaulted and robbed of her wallet and Muslim headscarf by two men, one of whom she described as wearing a white "Trump" hat, police said Thursday.

The Lafayette Police Department said in a statement that it is no longer investigating the 18-year-old woman's claims, which were made within hours of Donald Trump's presidential victory.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/10/us/ap-us-student-assaulted-headscarf.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/10/us/ap-us-student-assaulted-headscarf.html?_r=0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
<snip>

Jesus, get your head out of your own ass. If you think that my position puts me anywhere near the Nazis, then your are almost offensively idiotic. I'm the one explicitly disavowing racist arguments, you're the one pushing them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
<snip>

Jesus, get your head out of your own ass. If you think that my position puts me anywhere near the Nazis, then your are almost offensively idiotic. I'm the one explicitly disavowing racist arguments, you're the one pushing them.

I didn't say anything about the Nazis until this post that I'm typing now. Of course, continue to dodge about. It's amusing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:52:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
<snip>

Jesus, get your head out of your own ass. If you think that my position puts me anywhere near the Nazis, then your are almost offensively idiotic. I'm the one explicitly disavowing racist arguments, you're the one pushing them.

I didn't say anything about the Nazis until this post that I'm typing now.

Volksdeutsch -- you quoted it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:53:03 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:52:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
<snip>

Jesus, get your head out of your own ass. If you think that my position puts me anywhere near the Nazis, then your are almost offensively idiotic. I'm the one explicitly disavowing racist arguments, you're the one pushing them.

I didn't say anything about the Nazis until this post that I'm typing now.

Volksdeutsch -- you quoted it.

Not sure using quote function proves I said something about the Nazis but your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:52:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
<snip>

Jesus, get your head out of your own ass. If you think that my position puts me anywhere near the Nazis, then your are almost offensively idiotic. I'm the one explicitly disavowing racist arguments, you're the one pushing them.

I didn't say anything about the Nazis until this post that I'm typing now.

Volksdeutsch -- you quoted it.

Well, it came from Zoupa. Given French collaboration during the WW2, maybe it was a compliment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:53:03 PM
Not sure using quote function proves I said something about the Nazis but your mileage may vary.

You might want to ask for a refund on that Stanford degree.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:54:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:53:03 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:52:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
<snip>

Jesus, get your head out of your own ass. If you think that my position puts me anywhere near the Nazis, then your are almost offensively idiotic. I'm the one explicitly disavowing racist arguments, you're the one pushing them.

I didn't say anything about the Nazis until this post that I'm typing now.

Volksdeutsch -- you quoted it.

Not sure using quote function proves I said something about the Nazis but your mileage may vary.

Honestly? How else would you explain what you did after I expressed my astonishment at Zoupa's shitposting, and you responded by quoting a post by Hami?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:53:03 PM
Not sure using quote function proves I said something about the Nazis but your mileage may vary.

You might want to ask for a refund on that Stanford degree.

Nah, I'm chill.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:55:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:53:03 PM
Not sure using quote function proves I said something about the Nazis but your mileage may vary.

You might want to ask for a refund on that Stanford degree.

Nah, I'm chill.

Clearly not.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:56:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:54:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:53:03 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:52:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
<snip>

Jesus, get your head out of your own ass. If you think that my position puts me anywhere near the Nazis, then your are almost offensively idiotic. I'm the one explicitly disavowing racist arguments, you're the one pushing them.

I didn't say anything about the Nazis until this post that I'm typing now.

Volksdeutsch -- you quoted it.

Not sure using quote function proves I said something about the Nazis but your mileage may vary.

Honestly? How else would you explain what you did after I expressed my astonishment at Zoupa's shitposting, and you responded by quoting a post by Hami?

I'll make it easier for you both.

"GG guys, keep telling the brown man it's all his fault  "
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:56:09 PM
fahdiz, Zoupa, garbo. So much estrogen in the air.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:56:23 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:55:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:53:03 PM
Not sure using quote function proves I said something about the Nazis but your mileage may vary.

You might want to ask for a refund on that Stanford degree.

Nah, I'm chill.

Clearly not.  :lol:

How so?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:56:09 PM
fahdiz, Zoupa, garbo. So much estrogen in the air.

Ah misogyny. Refreshing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:57:20 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:56:09 PM
fahdiz, Zoupa, garbo. So much estrogen in the air.

Will they try and force us to use made up gender pronouns next?

(p.s. check out Jordan Peterson if you haven't found him already)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:56:09 PM
fahdiz, Zoupa, garbo. So much estrogen in the air.

Ah misogyny. Refreshing.

Do you guys identify as women now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:59:32 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 10, 2016, 06:56:09 PM
fahdiz, Zoupa, garbo. So much estrogen in the air.

Ah misogyny. Refreshing.

Do you guys identify as women now?

Alright, I'm tired now. It isn't fun when you won't at least own your attacks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 10, 2016, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
You can feel the volkdeutsch uniting in this thread. GG guys, keep telling the brown man it's all his fault  :wacko:

I think they're actually saying it's white progressives' fault.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 07:01:36 PM
I like this thread.

I mean, we could sorta see glimpses of where the rightards stood beforehand, but this thread pulled all their shit out in the open.

I guess getting your champion elected as leader of the free world unshackles your tongue. Good for you, guys, good for you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 07:24:25 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:33:15 PM
There's a vast chasm between explanation and apologism. You know that.

What's the difference in this case?

Terrorism apologists say "Of course we condemn all violence.  However...Palestine, French unemployment, blah blah blah."  You've reversed the order.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 10, 2016, 07:26:12 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 05:11:07 PM
My grandparents didn't worry enough about politics and found themselves Jewish and in the Reich in the late 30s, which proved somewhat of an inconvenience.

Obviously this is not the same thing, but history is littered with dead people and refugees who were overly relaxed about political developments.  A little anxiety never killed anyone.

Yeah, I though us on Languish prided outselves in being big on the lessons of history; funny to hear a Canadian and Pole saying, 'relax, he won't be nearly as bad as some people are making out'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 10, 2016, 07:27:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.

Gaby, I think you're better off in the UK for a while.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on November 10, 2016, 07:38:13 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 07:01:36 PM
I like this thread.

I mean, we could sorta see glimpses of where the rightards stood beforehand, but this thread pulled all their shit out in the open.

I guess getting your champion elected as leader of the free world unshackles your tongue. Good for you, guys, good for you.

Lets be clear that our three vocal trumpeters on the board are a swiss, a pole, and an icelander.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on November 10, 2016, 08:06:10 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 10, 2016, 07:26:12 PM
Yeah, I though us on Languish prided outselves in being big on the lessons of history; funny to hear a Canadian and Pole saying, 'relax, he won't be nearly as bad as some people are making out'.

Maybe they're able to discern true threats to freedom from hyperbole.  :huh:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 10, 2016, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 10, 2016, 07:38:13 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 07:01:36 PM
I like this thread.

I mean, we could sorta see glimpses of where the rightards stood beforehand, but this thread pulled all their shit out in the open.

I guess getting your champion elected as leader of the free world unshackles your tongue. Good for you, guys, good for you.

Lets be clear that our three vocal trumpeters on the board are a swiss, a pole, and an icelander.

Not as good of a joke as the rabbi, a priest and a Muslim walking into a bar.....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 10, 2016, 08:49:04 PM
Yeah, as far as jokes go, those three are pretty sad ones.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 08:55:40 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 10, 2016, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 10, 2016, 07:38:13 PM
Lets be clear that our three vocal trumpeters on the board are a swiss, a pole, and an icelander.

Not as good of a joke as the rabbi, a priest and a Muslim walking into a bar.....

Why not, they're going to fuck the duck too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:06:30 PM
 Well this thread escalated quickly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 10, 2016, 09:07:19 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:06:30 PM
Well this thread escalated quickly.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview8%2F20140116%2F4954544%2Foh-it-looks-good-on-you-though-o.gif&hash=8cf540167a59a6ffc2f6c7aac726116ae036700a)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 09:12:21 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 06:27:28 PM
Words are not violence. The fact that you do not see the difference is emblematic of your failed ideology.

Your victimhood gambit won't work any more. The spell is broken.

Democracy is about exchanging words.  If people deny all accountability for what they say, the system breaks down.  If you claim what people say doesn't matter you are denying the very premise behind democracy. 

Words are not violence but they what either prepares people to cause violence in an organized way or what brings them back from that brink. 

This isn't abstruse postmodernist theory, this is basic stuff; part of code of Western politics and society since the age of Pericles and Cicero.  Very naive position you are advancing here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 10, 2016, 09:44:53 PM
Earlier today I referred to Trump as a 21st century Fernando Wood.  Wood, like Trump had a reputation for intemperate behavior, which is reflected in an anecdote that can be found of his wikipedia page:

QuoteIn January 15, 1868, Wood was censured for the use of unparliamentary language. During debate on the floor the House of Representatives, Wood called a piece of legislation "A monstrosity, a measure the most infamous of the many infamous acts of this infamous Congress." An uproar immediately followed this utterance, and Wood was not permitted to continue. This was followed by a motion by Henry L. Dawes to censure Wood, which passed by a vote of 114-39.

It all seems very quaint now, doesn't it?

The last censure for unparliamentary language occurred in 1921, when a House member put into the record a letter (written by someone else) containing the words "damn" and "son of a bitch".  The sponsor of the censure resolution stated that the "there is not a member who will not say that it is the vilest thing he has ever seen in print"

Standards do change, and it is not such a terrible thing that we are more relaxed about the use of language in political setting, but we shouldn't kid ourselves that there isn't something real and valuable that is lost when public discourse is encouraged to follow the race to the very bottom of the gutter.  Conservatives - real conservatives - don't need to have this explained.  But we are in uncharted territory now. And to think there is no cost at all - indeed to celebrate and exult in it as some kind liberation against the oppression of prudes, squares and "social justice warriors" - again, very naive.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:53:40 PM
Remember when Romney got blasted for the "binders full of women" remark in the debate?  Yeah, well now you got Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 10, 2016, 09:53:40 PM
Remember when Romney got blasted for the "binders full of women" remark in the debate?  Yeah, well now you got Trump.

"You didn't want to go lay back and tolerate date rape, so now you're going to deal with gang bang rape-rape.  Hope you're happy, cunt."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 11:27:50 PM
Somehow, even when their candidate wins, rightards still manage to say it's the liberals fault. Impressive in a mind boggling kind of way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2016, 11:29:27 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 11:27:50 PM
Somehow, even when their candidate wins, rightards still manage to say it's the liberals fault. Impressive in a mind boggling kind of way.

Even when it's not about the cock, it's all about the cock (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/magazine/hillary-clinton-a-woman-dogged-by-mens-misdeeds.html?ref=politics)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 11:35:58 PM
Yup.

"We voted for him, made him President, but it's still your fault. You made us do it".

Sad!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 11:49:29 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 11:27:50 PM
Somehow, even when their candidate wins, rightards still manage to say it's the liberals fault. Impressive in a mind boggling kind of way.

Are you talking to your imaginary friend again?  WTF is this about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 11, 2016, 12:02:05 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2016, 11:49:29 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 11:27:50 PM
Somehow, even when their candidate wins, rightards still manage to say it's the liberals fault. Impressive in a mind boggling kind of way.

Are you talking to your imaginary friend again?  WTF is this about?

Huh? I'm talking about derspiess blaming Trump's election on liberals. The left criticized Romney on misogyny. Apparently, we should have let that slide since the consequence is Trump being elected.

I don't get it either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 11, 2016, 12:09:29 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 11, 2016, 12:02:05 AM
Huh? I'm talking about derspiess blaming Trump's election on liberals. The left criticized Romney on misogyny. Apparently, we should have let that slide since the consequence is Trump being elected.

I don't get it either.

I don't see you get that from what he wrote.  He was comparing the innocuous comment by Romney with Trump's full bore penis flapping.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 11, 2016, 01:04:23 AM
Hmmm. Maybe indeed, I didn't read it that way.

My bad. I promise not to call you a GOPtard for a full week derspiess  :yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 11, 2016, 03:26:51 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 10, 2016, 05:56:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2016, 05:53:54 PM
I'm glad to see though that some wealthy white men are prepared to tell us minorities how we should be feeling and acting. Such a rare blessing.

You know what? It's this kind of sexist, racist nonsense that got people to vote for Trump. If you want to ensure a second Trump term, by all means, go ahead and continue on the social justice train and demonize people for their race, sex or class.

Wow. Yeah. Blacks better re-learn where their proper place is right?

WTF man?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 11, 2016, 03:28:31 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 10, 2016, 07:01:36 PM
I like this thread.

I mean, we could sorta see glimpses of where the rightards stood beforehand, but this thread pulled all their shit out in the open.

I guess getting your champion elected as leader of the free world unshackles your tongue. Good for you, guys, good for you.

A bit disturbing, isn't it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 11, 2016, 03:31:14 AM
I guess it is good to know where people stand.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 11, 2016, 03:37:52 AM
Hamilcar and Martinus are horrible persons that lack basic human empathy - Film at 11. Also in tonight's edition: Pope is catholic, bears defecate in woods.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 11, 2016, 04:50:03 AM
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1455917_1213907575341891_3134851026740464960_n.jpg?oh=a6a57c46b7dda4988c5fce30f4a3641a&oe=58899A2A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 11, 2016, 05:45:55 AM
Yes, I do want haunted forests please.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 11, 2016, 06:42:53 AM
(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15032666_1529894220354884_2696489211553461673_n.png?oh=674068c9fbf3fe9462af9283e6179b68&oe=58874C7D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:03:52 AM
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 08:05:06 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:03:52 AM
:D

You people are going to have to start respecting the First Lady. 
Melania Trump deserves your support.   :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:23:31 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 08:05:06 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:03:52 AM
:D

You people are going to have to start respecting the First Lady. 
Melania Trump deserves your support.   :mad:

As my good friend said: "Don't ask me to come together. I'm not doing it. I have no use for the politics of playing nice with people who don't believe in my existence. Me coming together with this president elect and his supporters just means I am close enough that they don't have to try as hard to undermine everything about me."

Respect is earned.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 11, 2016, 08:23:47 AM
(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14947629_10210909786330203_2462371522498665081_n.jpg?oh=7174bd98f7199458b082b8ec671642fc&oe=58979692)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 08:31:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:23:31 AM
As my good friend said: "Don't ask me to come together. I'm not doing it. I have no use for the politics of playing nice with people who don't believe in my existence. Me coming together with this president elect and his supporters just means I am close enough that they don't have to try as hard to undermine everything about me."

Respect is earned.

You got a lot to learn about America again.  Boy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:36:21 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 08:31:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:23:31 AM
As my good friend said: "Don't ask me to come together. I'm not doing it. I have no use for the politics of playing nice with people who don't believe in my existence. Me coming together with this president elect and his supporters just means I am close enough that they don't have to try as hard to undermine everything about me."

Respect is earned.

You got a lot to learn about America again.  Boy.

Yeah I don't think we need any 'parodies' of the Trump brigade.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 08:39:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:36:21 AM
Yeah I don't think we need any 'parodies' of the Trump brigade.

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of America being made great again, circa 1929.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 11, 2016, 08:41:45 AM
My sister's posts have become slightly less conciliatory.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15027522_340856216273759_4395449989382875979_n.jpg?oh=983e3d613a36d9f27aee363411b88ec8&oe=588F2559)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 08:39:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:36:21 AM
Yeah I don't think we need any 'parodies' of the Trump brigade.

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of America being made great again, circa 1929.

I love the 'can't you wait till he actually does something?' Umm, no, that's exactly what I don't want to happen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 11, 2016, 08:43:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 11, 2016, 08:41:45 AM
My sister's posts have become slightly less conciliatory.

I'm quite confused. Was the thought that if Trump wins, we suddenly all have lobotomies? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 08:45:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 11, 2016, 08:41:45 AM
My sister's posts have become slightly less conciliatory.

:lol:  Dude, that shit's just getting started.

I wonder where they're marching to without college boys, gals and degenerates.  Oh, I know: freedom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on November 11, 2016, 08:54:14 AM
I like that apparently everybody in college is a degenerate.  Hey, at least they acknowledge that they are American though.  "We have the best degenerates!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 11, 2016, 09:07:48 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/15056255_688202411354655_8291021464707840970_n.png?oh=3d1a6a3df82ed83f2e6edc5755c81d43&oe=58C23716)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:03:52 AM
Fahdiz is quitting Facebook for a while.  I wonder if Arrieta's tweet is what put him over.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-arrieta-epstein-sullivan-gm-meetings-spt-1110-20161109-column.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:38:23 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-didnt-unfriend-you-over-politics_us_580fa553e4b06e45c5c6ff43

This got posted by 3 of my FB friends this morning :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 11, 2016, 10:44:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 11, 2016, 08:41:45 AM
My sister's posts have become slightly less conciliatory.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15027522_340856216273759_4395449989382875979_n.jpg?oh=983e3d613a36d9f27aee363411b88ec8&oe=588F2559)
What she's saying is, the protesters should arm themselves and march on the Capitol and the White House?  Interesting point of view.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 11, 2016, 10:47:00 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 11, 2016, 09:07:48 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/15056255_688202411354655_8291021464707840970_n.png?oh=3d1a6a3df82ed83f2e6edc5755c81d43&oe=58C23716)
that's only half true.  There is a program for skilled immigrant workers that considerably speed up the process and reduces the hassle.  And sponsorship is done by the government in these cases.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 11, 2016, 10:47:58 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 11, 2016, 10:44:25 AM
What she's saying is, the protesters should arm themselves and March on the Capitol and the White House?  Interesting point of view.

No she is saying they should all go in fight in the Middle eastern wars that our new President-elect says we should withdraw from

She must be a Clinton voter
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 11, 2016, 10:48:22 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:38:23 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-didnt-unfriend-you-over-politics_us_580fa553e4b06e45c5c6ff43

This got posted by 3 of my FB friends this morning :lol:
I have communists on my Facebook.  If I can tolerate that, I guess I could tolerate a neo-nazi freak.  Theoritically.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:53:22 AM
I doubt I could tolerate actual neo-nazis.  Thankfully I don't know any.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 10:56:03 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:53:22 AM
I doubt I could tolerate actual neo-nazis.  Thankfully I don't know any.

Now, now...we all know you don't have to be a neo-nazi to hate negroes.  #SkittlesDontNeedSwastikas
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 11, 2016, 11:19:09 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 11, 2016, 10:48:22 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:38:23 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-didnt-unfriend-you-over-politics_us_580fa553e4b06e45c5c6ff43

This got posted by 3 of my FB friends this morning :lol:
I have communists on my Facebook.  If I can tolerate that, I guess I could tolerate a neo-nazi freak.  Theoritically.

On Facebook I have religious sane like AmSci to religious crazy (my in laws) to neo-nazi assholes (he's having field day with Trump winning) to people that shell out Quebec Indépendance at every opportunity.

I find it all interesting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 11:22:45 AM
I sent a text to an anti-Clinton buddy of mine in intel if he was going to start getting paid in rubles.  Wasn't amused.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 11:33:17 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 10:56:03 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:53:22 AM
I doubt I could tolerate actual neo-nazis.  Thankfully I don't know any.

Now, now...we all know you don't have to be a neo-nazi to hate negroes.  #SkittlesDontNeedSwastikas

You're living proof, Mr. Dazzling Urbanites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 11:33:17 AM
You're living proof, Mr. Dazzling Urbanites.

What can I say, I love my people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 11, 2016, 11:40:41 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 11, 2016, 10:44:25 AM
What she's saying is, the protesters should arm themselves and march on the Capitol and the White House?  Interesting point of view.

She also posted this, so I'm confused about he roverall stance.

(https://external-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCcbRdc9VBC5j0a&w=487&h=487&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent.cdninstagram.com%2Ft51.2885-15%2Fs750x750%2Fsh0.08%2Fe35%2F15035594_580370648828223_3344104529288232960_n.jpg%3Fig_cache_key%3DMTM4MDQzOTY0NTQxODcwMzg1Mg%253D%253D.2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 11:49:32 AM
Protesting offends authoritarian sensibilities. 

That's why I what I told guys back during Occupy Wall Street and even the Arab Spring: Main Street America does not consider protesting to be a valid form of democratic expression.  It is simply too impolite.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 11, 2016, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 11:49:32 AM
Protesting offends authoritarian sensibilities. 

That's why I what I told guys back during Occupy Wall Street and even the Arab Spring: Main Street America does not consider protesting to be a valid form of democratic expression.  It is simply too impolite.

What a Russian attitude.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 11:54:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 11:49:32 AM
Protesting offends authoritarian sensibilities. 

That's why I what I told guys back during Occupy Wall Street and even the Arab Spring: Main Street America does not consider protesting to be a valid form of democratic expression.  It is simply too impolite.

It is impolite, and it's wasting time that better could be spent doing something productive.  Like work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 12:06:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 11, 2016, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 11:49:32 AM
Protesting offends authoritarian sensibilities. 

That's why I what I told guys back during Occupy Wall Street and even the Arab Spring: Main Street America does not consider protesting to be a valid form of democratic expression.  It is simply too impolite.

What a Russian attitude.

See, it's totally alien concepts to you because you're not from around here.  In Europe, the government is afraid of and defers to the people. In the United States, people are afraid of and defer to the government.   We defer to authority, because authority is stability.

Protests?  Hippie draft-dodger bullshit. Marches?  Negroes just need to be quiet.  General strikes? I'm not losing my job.  We don't strike as students because we've got to go to class.   :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Alcibiades on November 11, 2016, 01:00:03 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 11:49:32 AM
Protesting offends authoritarian sensibilities. 

That's why I what I told guys back during Occupy Wall Street and even the Arab Spring: Main Street America does not consider protesting to be a valid form of democratic expression.  It is simply too impolite.

Maybe you're right here - they seem to have no affect in the US whatsoever, which is interesting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 11, 2016, 01:50:07 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 11:22:45 AM
I sent a text to an anti-Clinton buddy of mine in intel if he was going to start getting paid in rubles.  Wasn't amused.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 01:54:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 11:54:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 11:49:32 AM
Protesting offends authoritarian sensibilities. 

That's why I what I told guys back during Occupy Wall Street and even the Arab Spring: Main Street America does not consider protesting to be a valid form of democratic expression.  It is simply too impolite.

It is impolite, and it's wasting time that better could be spent doing something productive.  Like work.

Yeah.  That cotton's not going to pick itself, you know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 03:41:48 PM
Sounds like good, honest work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 11, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 12:06:28 PM
See, it's totally alien concepts to you because you're not from around here.  In Europe, the government is afraid of and defers to the people. In the United States, people are afraid of and defer to the government.   We defer to authority, because authority is stability.

Protests?  Hippie draft-dodger bullshit. Marches?  Negroes just need to be quiet.  General strikes? I'm not losing my job.  We don't strike as students because we've got to go to class.   :lol:

This is such crap.  We just had an election in which "the people" made their choice.  250 people smashing cars in Oakland is not "the people."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 11, 2016, 04:49:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 11, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 12:06:28 PM
See, it's totally alien concepts to you because you're not from around here.  In Europe, the government is afraid of and defers to the people. In the United States, people are afraid of and defer to the government.   We defer to authority, because authority is stability.

Protests?  Hippie draft-dodger bullshit. Marches?  Negroes just need to be quiet.  General strikes? I'm not losing my job.  We don't strike as students because we've got to go to class.   :lol:

This is such crap.  We just had an election in which "the people" made their choice.  250 people smashing cars in Oakland is not "the people."


But they're very useful idiots.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 04:58:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 11, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 12:06:28 PM
See, it's totally alien concepts to you because you're not from around here.  In Europe, the government is afraid of and defers to the people. In the United States, people are afraid of and defer to the government.   We defer to authority, because authority is stability.

Protests?  Hippie draft-dodger bullshit. Marches?  Negroes just need to be quiet.  General strikes? I'm not losing my job.  We don't strike as students because we've got to go to class.   :lol:

This is such crap.  We just had an election in which "the people" made their choice.  250 people smashing cars in Oakland is not "the people."

Not even referring to that.  I'm talking about things like anti-war rallies surrounding the Nixon White House.  Occupy Wall Street.  Black Lives Matter.  Widespread protests, marches, strikes...that stuff doesn't move the needle in America. If anything, it antagonizes the Moral Majority.

Compare that to what Europe does. Look at France in 1968.  Last night isn't protesting.  Last night isn't even a sports championship. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 11, 2016, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 04:58:45 PM
Not even referring to that.  I'm talking about things like anti-war rallies surrounding the Nixon White House.  Occupy Wall Street.  Black Lives Matter.  Widespread protests, marches, strikes...that stuff doesn't move the needle in America. If anything, it antagonizes the Moral Majority.

Compare that to what Europe does. Look at France in 1968.  Last night isn't protesting.  Last night isn't even a sports championship.

You started off with Vietnam and Civil Rights.  Too bad for those guys we're still fighting in Vietnam and blacks can't vote in the Jim Crow south.

Protests work when they represent mainstream opinion (Vietnam) or when they move mainstream opinion (MLK).  Occupy Wall Street was a bunch of self indulgent suburban kids whining about not getting paid hedge fund money straight out of undergrad and whatever other knuckleheaded cause someone could be bothered to make a sign for.  You're upset it didn't move the needle because those were *your* knuckleheaded causes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 06:15:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 11, 2016, 05:45:02 PM
You started off with Vietnam and Civil Rights.  Too bad for those guys we're still fighting in Vietnam and blacks can't vote in the Jim Crow south.

Protests work when they represent mainstream opinion (Vietnam) or when they move mainstream opinion (MLK).  Occupy Wall Street was a bunch of self indulgent suburban kids whining about not getting paid hedge fund money straight out of undergrad and whatever other knuckleheaded cause someone could be bothered to make a sign for. 

Really?  They worked for Vietnam?  The Nattering Nabobs of Negativity that carried that war into Nixon's 2nd term, the protests that decreased the anti-war electoral count in '72?  That mainstream opinion?
MLK? It wasn't MLK that mainstreamed opinions in the Jim Crow South: it was the National Guard, the 82nd Airborne, the US Marshals, the FBI and an army of DOJ lawyers that mainstreamed opinions for them.

QuoteYou're upset it didn't move the needle because those were *your* knuckleheaded causes.

I know you get understandably defensive when it comes to your sweet, nourishing buckets of Wall Street creampies, but I'm pretty sure I was more than vocal about my opposition to Occupy Wall Street.  More of a Bomb Wall Street fan.  Protests are a waste of time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 11, 2016, 06:26:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 04:58:45 PM


Compare that to what Europe does. Look at France in 1968.  Last night isn't protesting.  Last night isn't even a sports championship.

France '68 is a joke that only benefitted the petit-bourgeois students. Industry Workers, then officered by the pro-Moscow Communist party, stopped when told by Moscow to not further weaken the De Gaulle régime, an useful counterpoint in the West. Plus, those students were Maoists and whatever assorted leftists. ;)

The only thing they got a bit faster, in retrospect, was post-modernism (yay!) and sexual liberalisation. On the other hand, it had started with De Gaulle allowing the pill in 1967.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 11, 2016, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2016, 06:15:37 PM
Really?  They worked for Vietnam?  The Nattering Nabobs of Negativity that carried that war into Nixon's 2nd term, the protests that decreased the anti-war electoral count in '72?  That mainstream opinion?
MLK? It wasn't MLK that mainstreamed opinions in the Jim Crow South: it was the National Guard, the 82nd Airborne, the US Marshals, the FBI and an army of DOJ lawyers that mainstreamed opinions for them.

Really.  Troops were being withdrawn and Vietnamization was underway by 72.

MLK didn't change the minds of southerners; he changed the minds of everyone else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 12, 2016, 02:06:39 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14947522_940788352718555_5687938422012589375_n.jpg?oh=eba2a198754d0fa41f8efb13f8b1b8e0&oe=58882B6F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 12, 2016, 02:10:46 PM
SMH
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 12, 2016, 02:32:31 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14212683_1696623380658759_871081573368776984_n.jpg?oh=7b3cf39f7a34b1131b43d8d42478e5b5&oe=58C53886)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 12, 2016, 03:10:53 PM
<mic drop>
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 12, 2016, 03:11:09 PM
QuoteSometimes, thinking about translation can help us see past our unexamined assumptions.
In English, we use the verb "to deport" to refer to the act of the state forcing undocumented or otherwise unwanted people out of a country by officially threatening them with violence or imprisonment. In French, the equivalent verb, "déporter," is no longer used because of its close association with the Nazi occupation during World War Two. Back then, it was actually a euphemism: the implicit destination of deportation was the concentration camps. The painful and shameful memory of these events mean that this verb has gone out of use, but the act of deportation remains: today we call it "expulsion" or "reconduite à la frontière," not to mention a whole level of administrative euphemisms like "obligation à quitter le territoire" or "mesure administrative d'éloignement." Americans, who don't have the same experience of history, still use the term "deportation," but they're still talking about the same ugly act. Whatever it's called, it's time we learn to stop doing it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 12, 2016, 03:20:27 PM
Derweiß can't wait to bag his first darkie under the new Stormfront amendment to the "Stand Over Them While They're on the Ground" law.

You'll still need 5 to make ace, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 12, 2016, 04:00:11 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 11, 2016, 10:53:22 AM
I doubt I could tolerate actual neo-nazis.  Thankfully I don't know any.

Man, you wouldn't know a Neo-Nazi if one bit you on the ass.  You were surprised to find out that Randy Weaver was a Neo-Nazi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 12, 2016, 04:07:06 PM
He wasn't. He was an anti-government wack job, and apparently had no qualms about associating with neo-nazis, but he himself wasn't one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 12, 2016, 04:17:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 12, 2016, 02:32:31 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14212683_1696623380658759_871081573368776984_n.jpg?oh=7b3cf39f7a34b1131b43d8d42478e5b5&oe=58C53886)

Yet plenty of other people did loot and burn in that era. Likewise most protesters are not doing that. I wonder what your sisters would have been focusing on back in the 60s?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 12, 2016, 04:37:24 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 12, 2016, 04:07:06 PM
He wasn't. He was an anti-government wack job, and apparently had no qualms about associating with neo-nazis, but he himself wasn't one.

Like I said, you wouldn't know one if he bit you on the ass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on November 12, 2016, 07:53:01 PM
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qtLpVBti--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/mbgqxgt9akibbeelwm4r.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 12, 2016, 10:05:57 PM
All those Joe to Obama jokes are pretty funny.

I liked the one where Joe says he left a Kenyan passport & a prayer rug for Trump to find.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2016, 12:00:22 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15036590_1185248211566202_6318775490912183991_n.jpg?oh=6d47b40e75e6fb17497cecacde099651&oe=58957D64)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2016, 12:01:32 AM
I may be wrong, but I don't think that picture was taken in the U.S.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 13, 2016, 12:10:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 13, 2016, 12:01:32 AM
I may be wrong, but I don't think that picture was taken in the U.S.

The is a common trick going on these days. I was shown footage supposedly from some riot after a cop got off that turned out to be from Africa.

That picture is surely from Europe someplace.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2016, 12:13:18 AM
Can't find the exact picture, but based on the street lights and the green laser beam it seems this was Greece 2008.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2016, 12:50:31 AM
Does it get cold enough in Greece to bundle up like that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2016, 12:55:47 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2016, 12:50:31 AM
Does it get cold enough in Greece to bundle up like that?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.cbc.ca%2F1.2233475.1382673754%21%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Foriginal_620%2Fgreece-riots-cp-w5963489.jpg&hash=1e5ea2b49438a2f910a966be6197330d1c0d1b25)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 13, 2016, 02:59:06 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2016, 12:50:31 AM
Does it get cold enough in Greece to bundle up like that?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snow-forecast.com%2Fsystem%2Fimages%2F533%2Flarge%2FBoot_Camp_partition-9.jpg&hash=8c34f1a7713c573d43e9fd78454e706065fa6916)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 13, 2016, 06:48:35 AM
Quote from: Zanza on November 13, 2016, 02:59:06 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2016, 12:50:31 AM
Does it get cold enough in Greece to bundle up like that?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snow-forecast.com%2Fsystem%2Fimages%2F533%2Flarge%2FBoot_Camp_partition-9.jpg&hash=8c34f1a7713c573d43e9fd78454e706065fa6916)

probably the best picture in the thread
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 13, 2016, 09:58:09 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2016, 12:50:31 AM
Does it get cold enough in Greece to bundle up like that?

It's Greece, not French Polynesia.  :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 13, 2016, 10:46:54 AM
I think the Texts from Hillary meme was great. Let's bring that back.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 13, 2016, 10:50:31 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthfeed.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F11%2FNEWSWEEK-MAG-01-800x416.jpg&hash=0bec9c9881b88d839ba04b775fac4eb471db695b)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 13, 2016, 04:02:04 PM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15055757_1154146188009726_7373574849008319497_n.jpg?oh=40a62618860c36fbc2254997e5f04c5d&oe=58C82B53)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on November 13, 2016, 09:24:52 PM
Not so much a folly, but one of my high school classmates wrote that his son imitated Trump doing the disabled reporter impression.  He and his wife were both appalled and told him to stop, but (as I'm sure every parent knows) the kid replied "But Trump did it."

I don't think our president should necessarily be America's greatest role model; but how could you explain to your children that the most successful man in the country is exactly what they shouldn't emulate?  It's especially egregious in the case of Trump because he never apologizes and never admits to any wrong-doing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 13, 2016, 09:28:56 PM
Hillary replaying that non-stop on her commercials didn't help.  My kids would not have heard any of Trump's antics had it not been for her commercials.  Scorched earth, I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 13, 2016, 09:30:52 PM
My kids didn't give a shit. WHERE IS MY PONY SHOW?

*fires ignite from their mind powers*
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 13, 2016, 09:34:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 13, 2016, 09:28:56 PM
Hillary replaying that non-stop on her commercials didn't help.  My kids would not have heard any of Trump's antics had it not been for her commercials.  Scorched earth, I guess.
Yeah, criticizing Trump for being a vulgar lout is the problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 13, 2016, 09:34:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2016, 09:30:52 PM
My kids didn't give a shit. WHERE IS MY PONY SHOW?

*fires ignite from their mind powers*

Tell them the ponies are now Trump Steaks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 13, 2016, 09:35:26 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 13, 2016, 09:34:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2016, 09:30:52 PM
My kids didn't give a shit. WHERE IS MY PONY SHOW?

*fires ignite from their mind powers*

Tell them the ponies are now Trump Steaks.

I don't wanna die.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 13, 2016, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 13, 2016, 09:34:12 PM
Yeah, criticizing Trump for being a vulgar lout is the problem.

Replaying his shit every commercial break during all the football games last Saturday kinda was.  Thankfully my kids filtered it out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 13, 2016, 09:47:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 13, 2016, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 13, 2016, 09:34:12 PM
Yeah, criticizing Trump for being a vulgar lout is the problem.

Replaying his shit every commercial break during all the football games last Saturday kinda was.  Thankfully my kids filtered it out.
You know what?  If the moral emptiness of your position on this is not patently obvious, there is no argument I can craft or wordsmith to make you come around.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 13, 2016, 10:42:22 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 13, 2016, 09:47:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 13, 2016, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 13, 2016, 09:34:12 PM
Yeah, criticizing Trump for being a vulgar lout is the problem.

Replaying his shit every commercial break during all the football games last Saturday kinda was.  Thankfully my kids filtered it out.
You know what?  If the moral emptiness of your position on this is not patently obvious, there is no argument I can craft or wordsmith to make you come around.

You are just now figuring this out?

It is pretty awesome, isn't it?

His Dear Leader is not at fault, it is *Hillary's* fault for talking about it!

It's like when cops shoot black people - it's not the cops fault, really. That kid should not have been playing with that toy gun in the first place!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 14, 2016, 09:36:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 09, 2016, 01:05:02 PM
Anyone heard of Mike Pence? Sure he's not in charge but there's no reason to suspect wider Republican gov't is going to be excited to keep anything related to gay rights that the courts don't tell them that they must.

I'd be more worried about him than Trump. If Trump has a heart attack this Ultra-WASP would be the It Girl.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 10:19:47 AM
Okay, so things have cooled down a bit on my Facebook feed.  On Twitter, however, a friend of mine tweeted this this weekend:

QuoteInto my fourth night with kids who can't sleep because they're afraid. Thanks, white America, you cloaked yourselves in glory this time.

And just who put the fear into these kids' heads?  Hopefully by February people will start to get a grip.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 14, 2016, 10:21:14 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 10:19:47 AM
Okay, so things have cooled down a bit on my Facebook feed.  On Twitter, however, a friend of mine tweeted this this weekend:

QuoteInto my fourth night with kids who can't sleep because they're afraid. Thanks, white America, you cloaked yourselves in glory this time.

And just who put the fear into these kids' heads?  Hopefully by February people will start to get a grip.

Why are your friend's kids afraid?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 10:28:40 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 14, 2016, 10:21:14 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 10:19:47 AM
Okay, so things have cooled down a bit on my Facebook feed.  On Twitter, however, a friend of mine tweeted this this weekend:

QuoteInto my fourth night with kids who can't sleep because they're afraid. Thanks, white America, you cloaked yourselves in glory this time.

And just who put the fear into these kids' heads?  Hopefully by February people will start to get a grip.

Why are your friend's kids afraid?

My guess: because The Boogeyman got elected president and will deport half the family even though they're all US citizens. 

My friend is pretty far left.  I've never heard him talk politics to the kids at their house, but I hadn't been around since the election started heating up this summer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 14, 2016, 10:30:43 AM
Is he (or the kids are) black, gay or any other minority?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 10:30:54 AM
He's white, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2016, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 10:19:47 AM
And just who put the fear into these kids' heads?

I guess that might make sense if his kids live in a bubble and only see what he allows them to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 10:30:54 AM
He's white, right?

He's white, his wife was born in the US to parents from India.  They have one biological daughter and one they adopted from India.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 14, 2016, 10:38:25 AM
So if you and Trump get your way, they are out of here, right?

They are probably secret Muslims, after all. More Muslims in India than any other country in the world excepting a couple with more than India.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 10:40:48 AM
They are right to be scared, some asshole in school against safe spaces is going to yell at them that they are getting deported.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 10:42:01 AM
They smell like feet and curry.  Ewww. 


That's OK, derweiß, I know where you're coming from;  I often surround myself with irrational right wing Dumbfuckistanis to feel better about myself and reinforce my opinions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 10:42:11 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 10:40:48 AM
They are right to be scared, some asshole in school against safe spaces is going to yell at them that they are getting deported.

Very doubtful.  Both girls attend an exclusive private school he helps run.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 14, 2016, 10:58:50 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14925424_1271248189612889_3534976958265585469_n.jpg?oh=810ae04107ab61b35dd4311f39154c7c&oe=588D78AB)

Tru dat. I wonder if Trump planned it this way. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 11:51:31 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 14, 2016, 10:58:50 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14925424_1271248189612889_3534976958265585469_n.jpg?oh=810ae04107ab61b35dd4311f39154c7c&oe=588D78AB)

Tru dat. I wonder if Trump planned it this way. :P

I kind of want President Pence... :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 14, 2016, 12:07:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 11:51:31 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 14, 2016, 10:58:50 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14925424_1271248189612889_3534976958265585469_n.jpg?oh=810ae04107ab61b35dd4311f39154c7c&oe=588D78AB)

Tru dat. I wonder if Trump planned it this way. :P

I kind of want President Pence... :unsure:

Fetus burials! Intelligent Design in schools! Allowing discrimination of gay people! Defunding Planned Parenthood so they can't perform AIDS tests! Climate change denial! No sex-ed in schools!

Which of those positions do you support, Beeb?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on November 14, 2016, 12:15:56 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2016, 12:07:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 11:51:31 AM
I kind of want President Pence... :unsure:

Fetus burials! Intelligent Design in schools! Allowing discrimination of gay people! Defunding Planner Parenthood so they can't perform AIDS tests! Climate change denial! No sex-ed in schools!

Which of those positions do you support, Beeb?

Which of those won't they get with a Trump presidency? Pence at least seem a little more responsible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 14, 2016, 12:17:20 PM
Relevant for this discussion.  :lol:

(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15037079_1610208642608703_3817854739786024200_n.jpg?oh=ad8721860724e007a18051cf49dd3550&oe=58D08004)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 12:17:50 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2016, 12:07:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 11:51:31 AM
I kind of want President Pence... :unsure:

Fetus burials! Intelligent Design in schools! Allowing discrimination of gay people! Defunding Planner Parenthood so they can't perform AIDS tests! Climate change denial! No sex-ed in schools!

Which of those positions do you support, Beeb?

Lol, all of them
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 12:20:00 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2016, 12:17:20 PM
Relevant for this discussion.  :lol:

Pence looks like he's about to buttfuck Haji in the back of the Johnny Quest plane.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2016, 12:24:36 PM
Quote from: Liep on November 14, 2016, 12:15:56 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2016, 12:07:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 11:51:31 AM
I kind of want President Pence... :unsure:

Fetus burials! Intelligent Design in schools! Allowing discrimination of gay people! Defunding Planner Parenthood so they can't perform AIDS tests! Climate change denial! No sex-ed in schools!

Which of those positions do you support, Beeb?

Which of those won't they get with a Trump presidency? Pence at least seem a little more responsible.

Actually, with Trump it is theoretically possible that they don't get any of them. It isn't like he is actually an ideological diehard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:25:11 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2016, 12:07:05 PM
Fetus burials! Intelligent Design in schools! Allowing discrimination of gay people! Defunding Planned Parenthood so they can't perform AIDS tests! Climate change denial! No sex-ed in schools!

Which of those positions do you support, Beeb?

I support having grown-ups in the White House, not overgrown orange children. #NeverTrump

And Pence seemed fairly impressive on the campaign trail to be honest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 14, 2016, 12:38:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:25:11 PM
And Pence seemed fairly impressive on the campaign trail to be honest.

Yeah, I liked his ability to calmly and collectedly lie about Trump's lies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:42:05 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 14, 2016, 12:38:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:25:11 PM
And Pence seemed fairly impressive on the campaign trail to be honest.

Yeah, I liked his ability to calmly and collectedly lie about Trump's lies.

My recollection was he basically just ignored anything that Trump had said. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 12:52:53 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 14, 2016, 12:38:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:25:11 PM
And Pence seemed fairly impressive on the campaign trail to be honest.

Yeah, I liked his ability to calmly and collectedly lie about Trump's lies.

Lol
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2016, 12:53:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:42:05 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 14, 2016, 12:38:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:25:11 PM
And Pence seemed fairly impressive on the campaign trail to be honest.

Yeah, I liked his ability to calmly and collectedly lie about Trump's lies.

My recollection was he basically just ignored anything that Trump had said. :unsure:

You don't seem to have a good memory then. After all, he was always confronted by reporters with Trump's lies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:54:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2016, 12:53:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:42:05 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 14, 2016, 12:38:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 12:25:11 PM
And Pence seemed fairly impressive on the campaign trail to be honest.

Yeah, I liked his ability to calmly and collectedly lie about Trump's lies.

My recollection was he basically just ignored anything that Trump had said. :unsure:

You don't seem to have a good memory then. After all, he was always confronted by reporters with Trump's lies.

"You've whipped out that Mexican thing again".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 14, 2016, 01:00:56 PM
With Pence, it's as with Cruz: at least there is still the off chance the Donald didn't mean any of this shit and is going to be a level-headed middle ground President who is just after scoring some sweet deals for his business interests.

With Pence we know he is a religious zealot, so what is at this stage merely a high probability with Trump (namely, the causing of many damages to American society), with the likes of Pence, it's pretty much a given.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:

Shhh... I'm enjoying this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on November 14, 2016, 01:31:37 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 14, 2016, 01:00:56 PM
With Pence, it's as with Cruz: at least there is still the off chance the Donald didn't mean any of this shit and is going to be a level-headed middle ground President who is just after scoring some sweet deals for his business interests.

With Pence we know he is a religious zealot, so what is at this stage merely a high probability with Trump (namely, the causing of many damages to American society), with the likes of Pence, it's pretty much a given.

Mr. 1950's is far more dangerous than Trump IMO.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 14, 2016, 01:31:51 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:

I'd rather take crazy pills than be an unethical piece of shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 14, 2016, 01:32:57 PM
Pence could be expected to stay within the bounds of the constitution, he is a lawyer and all.  Trump, I don't know.  I think of it as a driving analogy.  Pence would drive to someplace I'd rather not be.  Trump drive right off the road and possibly off a cliff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 14, 2016, 01:40:53 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2016, 01:32:57 PM
Pence could be expected to stay within the bounds of the constitution, he is a lawyer and all.  Trump, I don't know.  I think of it as a driving analogy.  Pence would drive to someplace I'd rather not be.  Trump drive right off the road and possibly off a cliff.

I think Pence is a Hitler to Trump's Mussolini.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 14, 2016, 01:40:53 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2016, 01:32:57 PM
Pence could be expected to stay within the bounds of the constitution, he is a lawyer and all.  Trump, I don't know.  I think of it as a driving analogy.  Pence would drive to someplace I'd rather not be.  Trump drive right off the road and possibly off a cliff.

I think Pence is a Hitler to Trump's Mussolini.

*edit*

Nevermind - I forgot who I was responding to - the Chairman of the Warsaw branch of Make America Great Again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on November 14, 2016, 02:02:57 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 14, 2016, 01:00:56 PM
With Pence, it's as with Cruz: at least there is still the off chance the Donald didn't mean any of this shit and is going to be a level-headed middle ground President who is just after scoring some sweet deals for his business interests.

With Pence we know he is a religious zealot, so what is at this stage merely a high probability with Trump (namely, the causing of many damages to American society), with the likes of Pence, it's pretty much a given.

Trump has just named Steve Bannon as chief strategist and senior counselor. I think the bolded part of your sentence is rapidly becoming obsolete.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 14, 2016, 02:05:08 PM
Morbidly obsolete?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:

We are more afraid of Pence because we hold a little amount of hope that Trump is not going to do everything promised. While we, rightfully, fear Pence for the zealot he is.

Your faith is blinding you right now, it's ok.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2016, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:

We are more afraid of Pence because we hold a little amount of hope that Trump is not going to do everything promised. While we, rightfully, fear Pence for the zealot he is.

Your faith is blinding you right now, it's ok.

Well Beeb also doesn't care about the things that Pence threatens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on November 14, 2016, 02:07:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 14, 2016, 02:05:08 PM
Morbidly obsolete?

Things are getting morbid. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2016, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:

We are more afraid of Pence because we hold a little amount of hope that Trump is not going to do everything promised. While we, rightfully, fear Pence for the zealot he is.

Your faith is blinding you right now, it's ok.

Well Beeb also doesn't care about the things that Pence threatens.

Abortions pisses them off so much, even more so since they lost the Marriage war.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2016, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:

We are more afraid of Pence because we hold a little amount of hope that Trump is not going to do everything promised. While we, rightfully, fear Pence for the zealot he is.

Your faith is blinding you right now, it's ok.

Well Beeb also doesn't care about the things that Pence threatens.

Okay, realistically, what is it that President Pence is going to be able to do that is so terrible (and yet within the Constitution).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 14, 2016, 02:29:19 PM
I mainly look at the American government in terms of foreign policy. Trump seems to be a threat to the Western world order as he openly disdains its institutions and I wouldn't put it beyond him to severely damage these institutions (e.g. WTO, NATO etc.)

Pence seems to be a reactionary on lots of social issues, but that's a domestic problem for Americans. I have my opinion on that, but in the end, it's their country and they need to find the right way for themselves. But in terms of foreign policy, he seems to be a blank slate. That let's me hope that he is just your normal Republican on these and is not interested in toppling the institutions of the Pax Americana...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:31:52 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2016, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:

We are more afraid of Pence because we hold a little amount of hope that Trump is not going to do everything promised. While we, rightfully, fear Pence for the zealot he is.

Your faith is blinding you right now, it's ok.

Well Beeb also doesn't care about the things that Pence threatens.

Okay, realistically, what is it that President Pence is going to be able to do that is so terrible (and yet within the Constitution).

Anti-Choice
Creationism
Anti-gay
Anti-common curriculum

You know the things Larch said in the post you quoted in reply #2307.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:42:16 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:31:52 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2016, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:

We are more afraid of Pence because we hold a little amount of hope that Trump is not going to do everything promised. While we, rightfully, fear Pence for the zealot he is.

Your faith is blinding you right now, it's ok.

Well Beeb also doesn't care about the things that Pence threatens.

Okay, realistically, what is it that President Pence is going to be able to do that is so terrible (and yet within the Constitution).

Anti-Choice
Creationism
Anti-gay
Anti-common curriculum

You know the things Larch said in the post you quoted in reply #2307.

No, give me specifics.

On being "anti-choice", besides nominating conservative USSC Justices, he has zero sway over abortion laws in the US if he were President.

Creationism - the federal government can't mandate creationism be taught in schools (see below).

Anti-gay - again the USSC has ruled on most of the major issues.  Gay marriage is the law of the land.

Common core - I have to admit I never got the right-wing obsession over this.  It's a fairly benign set of educational standards.  Several states have already opted out.  And anyways Trump has said he'll repeal Common Core anyways.

I get it - you don't like Pence's values.  But what is it he could actually do?

So what terrible things could President Pence do?  I can think of precisely two: he could order his Education Secretary to stop enforcing transgendered rights as applicable under Title IX.  And he could (but is very unlikely to) re-introduce "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in the military.

And that's all I can come up with.  Do you have
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:56:55 PM
Appointing conservative judges is scary enough but in tandem with letting the states run amok is how I see all of these happening.

How? By getting Congress to pass law & signing them. Pence is one of them!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 03:05:03 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:56:55 PM
Appointing conservative judges is scary enough but in tandem with letting the states run amok is how I see all of these happening.

How? By getting Congress to pass law & signing them. Pence is one of them!

So basically any Republican scares you.  Because they all promised to appoint conservative judges.

And what laws?  Remember that Congress is constrained by the constituion - various powers are either held by the state, and any law has to pass constitutional muster.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Okay, realistically, what is it that President Pence is going to be able to do that is so terrible (and yet within the Constitution).
Replace Supreme Court Judges with ultra-conservative ones.
Push bills through Congress that would threaten social improvements of the last few years.  Have the Supreme Court squash down any attempt at legal opposition.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 03:38:20 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 03:05:03 PM
And what laws?  Remember that Congress is constrained by the constituion - various powers are either held by the state, and any law has to pass constitutional muster.
And the Constitution is interpreted by the Supreme Court.

If there was a case were, say, the Supreme Court decided that abortion is now the perogative of States and not Federal government, Roe vs Wade would be invalidated and the would screw women's rights in 2/3 of the US States.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on November 14, 2016, 04:09:41 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 03:38:20 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 03:05:03 PM
And what laws?  Remember that Congress is constrained by the constituion - various powers are either held by the state, and any law has to pass constitutional muster.
And the Constitution is interpreted by the Supreme Court.

If there was a case were, say, the Supreme Court decided that abortion is now the perogative of States and not Federal government, Roe vs Wade would be invalidated and the would screw women's rights in 2/3 of the US States.

And republicans very quickly become a minority party.

It is one thing to debate guantanamo bay, trade agreements, and relatively small tax differences.  But have a party tell a mother that her 16 year old daughter will have to carry a child to term, and that party is going to lose her vote.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 14, 2016, 04:12:02 PM
I doubt the number of mothers of potential teenage moms that are denied abortions is significant enough to change even the tightest of swing states.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 04:19:56 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 14, 2016, 04:09:41 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 03:38:20 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 03:05:03 PM
And what laws?  Remember that Congress is constrained by the constituion - various powers are either held by the state, and any law has to pass constitutional muster.
And the Constitution is interpreted by the Supreme Court.

If there was a case were, say, the Supreme Court decided that abortion is now the perogative of States and not Federal government, Roe vs Wade would be invalidated and the would screw women's rights in 2/3 of the US States.

And republicans very quickly become a minority party.

It is one thing to debate guantanamo bay, trade agreements, and relatively small tax differences.  But have a party tell a mother that her 16 year old daughter will have to carry a child to term, and that party is going to lose her vote.

I dunno - might lose the daughter's vote (but she can't vote yet) while winning the mom's vote. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 14, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
Because she was voting Democrat before on the assumption they were the anti-abortion party?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
Because she was voting Democrat before on the assumption they were the anti-abortion party?

Because she wants her some grandkids. -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 14, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 14, 2016, 04:09:41 PM
And republicans very quickly become a minority party.

It is one thing to debate guantanamo bay, trade agreements, and relatively small tax differences.  But have a party tell a mother that her 16 year old daughter will have to carry a child to term, and that party is going to lose her vote.

Nah. If enough moms feel that way, it becomes a non-issue. And they already vote Democrat anyway.

The real place they'd lose votes is with males who support abortion, they are the most complacent demographic currently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 14, 2016, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Okay, realistically, what is it that President Pence is going to be able to do that is so terrible (and yet within the Constitution).
Replace Supreme Court Judges with reactionary ones.


corrected that for you
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 14, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
The real place they'd lose votes is with males who support abortion, they are the most complacent demographic currently.

I can only carry all these assholes for so long.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 04:54:04 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 14, 2016, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Okay, realistically, what is it that President Pence is going to be able to do that is so terrible (and yet within the Constitution).
Replace Supreme Court Judges with reactionary ones.


corrected that for you

Dude they're replacing Scalia right now.  Exactly how much more conservative can you get?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 05:05:42 PM
:dreaming:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 14, 2016, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:42:16 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:31:52 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2016, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
You're all been taking crazy pills if you're more afraid of Pence than Trump. :wacko:

We are more afraid of Pence because we hold a little amount of hope that Trump is not going to do everything promised. While we, rightfully, fear Pence for the zealot he is.

Your faith is blinding you right now, it's ok.

Well Beeb also doesn't care about the things that Pence threatens.

Okay, realistically, what is it that President Pence is going to be able to do that is so terrible (and yet within the Constitution).

Anti-Choice
Creationism
Anti-gay
Anti-common curriculum

You know the things Larch said in the post you quoted in reply #2307.

No, give me specifics.

On being "anti-choice", besides nominating conservative USSC Justices, he has zero sway over abortion laws in the US if he were President.

Creationism - the federal government can't mandate creationism be taught in schools (see below).

Anti-gay - again the USSC has ruled on most of the major issues.  Gay marriage is the law of the land.

Common core - I have to admit I never got the right-wing obsession over this.  It's a fairly benign set of educational standards.  Several states have already opted out.  And anyways Trump has said he'll repeal Common Core anyways.

I get it - you don't like Pence's values.  But what is it he could actually do?

So what terrible things could President Pence do?  I can think of precisely two: he could order his Education Secretary to stop enforcing transgendered rights as applicable under Title IX.  And he could (but is very unlikely to) re-introduce "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in the military.

And that's all I can come up with.  Do you have

Yeah, what can he do, after all he'd only be the President of the USA, you know, a purely symbolic office.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 05:27:02 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2016, 05:24:09 PM
Yeah, what can he do, after all he'd only be the President of the USA, you know, a purely symbolic office.  :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

POTUS has incredibly wide powers in some areas (like military and trade), but very narrow in others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 05:05:42 PM
:dreaming:

A FETUS IN EVERY POT
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 14, 2016, 05:55:12 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 05:05:42 PM
:dreaming:

A FETUS IN EVERY POT

Baba Yaga for President?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 03:05:03 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 14, 2016, 02:56:55 PM
Appointing conservative judges is scary enough but in tandem with letting the states run amok is how I see all of these happening.

How? By getting Congress to pass law & signing them. Pence is one of them!

So basically any Republican scares you.  Because they all promised to appoint conservative judges.

And what laws?  Remember that Congress is constrained by the constituion - various powers are either held by the state, and any law has to pass constitutional muster.

Well yes, pretty crazy people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 09:09:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 04:54:04 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 14, 2016, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2016, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 14, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Okay, realistically, what is it that President Pence is going to be able to do that is so terrible (and yet within the Constitution).
Replace Supreme Court Judges with reactionary ones.


corrected that for you

Dude they're replacing Scalia right now.  Exactly how much more conservative can you get?
It's not just Scalia.  2 or 3 others should theoritically leave the USSC during Trump's or Pence's mandate.  Had Obama been able to replace Scalia with a progressive judge, it wouldn't have been so bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 09:14:53 PM

"It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. I'm tired of seeing a Ape in heels." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/14/ape-in-heels-w-va-officials-under-fire-after-comments-about-michelle-obama/?tid=pm_pop)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 14, 2016, 09:16:33 PM
I was laughing so hard at the first characterization I almost missed the racist bit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 14, 2016, 09:43:29 PM
:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on November 15, 2016, 12:11:14 AM
Derspicy neck of the woods, shocking ain't it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 01:37:41 AM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14993482_10158032891630643_4681842108202387566_n.jpg?oh=353afaafa63cfcb9b3cc424fe0e026ff&oe=58D1D900)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 15, 2016, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2016, 09:14:53 PM

"It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. I'm tired of seeing a Ape in heels." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/14/ape-in-heels-w-va-officials-under-fire-after-comments-about-michelle-obama/?tid=pm_pop)

*an Ape

I thought your spoke English in your country?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2016, 01:43:45 AM
Pretty sure I haven't moved at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 15, 2016, 02:04:04 AM
http://trumpdonald.org/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 15, 2016, 04:46:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15109523_1001400803305168_19527896743060400_n.jpg?oh=92e8d8ceed5c4114e9f6aaedcfd203b4&oe=58D47859)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 15, 2016, 04:52:12 AM
My two weeks of high school German pay off for once.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on November 15, 2016, 04:54:00 AM
Five? I don't get the joke  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 15, 2016, 04:55:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 01:37:41 AM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14993482_10158032891630643_4681842108202387566_n.jpg?oh=353afaafa63cfcb9b3cc424fe0e026ff&oe=58D1D900)

I'll raise you.

http://gothamist.com/2016/11/14/bar_tabac_trump_supporter_attack.php

QuoteMale Trump Supporter Sucker-Punches Woman Who Disagrees With Him At Brooklyn Restaurant

One seems like an exercise in free speech (weren't you all about that?) and one seems like violence. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 06:37:25 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 15, 2016, 04:54:00 AM
Five? I don't get the joke  :blush:

Four and Six in German are pronounced Fear and Sex. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 07:04:32 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15025315_1200632886639243_1129990324863097110_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 07:05:31 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2016, 04:55:48 AM
I'll raise you.

http://gothamist.com/2016/11/14/bar_tabac_trump_supporter_attack.php

QuoteMale Trump Supporter Sucker-Punches Woman Who Disagrees With Him At Brooklyn Restaurant

One seems like an exercise in free speech (weren't you all about that?) and one seems like violence. :hmm:

This thread is for posting things people post on Facebook and other social media. There are also similar reports of Trump supporters being physically assaulted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 15, 2016, 07:27:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 07:05:31 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2016, 04:55:48 AM
I'll raise you.

http://gothamist.com/2016/11/14/bar_tabac_trump_supporter_attack.php

QuoteMale Trump Supporter Sucker-Punches Woman Who Disagrees With Him At Brooklyn Restaurant

One seems like an exercise in free speech (weren't you all about that?) and one seems like violence. :hmm:

This thread is for posting things people post on Facebook and other social media. There are also similar reports of Trump supporters being physically assaulted.

I got that from social media. A friend of mine in New York posted it. Not sure how its not relevant to post if you're going to put up some random women's post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 15, 2016, 07:29:15 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 07:04:32 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15025315_1200632886639243_1129990324863097110_o.jpg)

That one doesn't make any sense at all. Oh I guess it could be something about an attack on core Hillary supporters. Otherwise, everyone I know on the left has been up in arms about all of those things, though admittedly they didn't protests about every single one of them.

Doesn't seem appropriate for your alt right shtick though. The right cares about none of those things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 15, 2016, 08:45:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2016, 07:29:15 AMThat one doesn't make any sense at all. Oh I guess it could be something about an attack on core Hillary supporters. Otherwise, everyone I know on the left has been up in arms about all of those things, though admittedly they didn't protests about every single one of them.

Doesn't seem appropriate for your alt right shtick though. The right cares about none of those things.

That is definitely a far left meme. Doesn't make it any more stupid. Well actually probably makes it more stupid.

And Marty doesn't care about the source. He is in full asshole/troll mode.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 15, 2016, 08:55:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 15, 2016, 08:45:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2016, 07:29:15 AMThat one doesn't make any sense at all. Oh I guess it could be something about an attack on core Hillary supporters. Otherwise, everyone I know on the left has been up in arms about all of those things, though admittedly they didn't protests about every single one of them.

Doesn't seem appropriate for your alt right shtick though. The right cares about none of those things.

That is definitely a far left meme. Doesn't make it any more stupid. Well actually probably makes it more stupid.

And Marty doesn't care about the source. He is in full asshole/troll mode.

Fair enough on both fronts. Well not fair but it is what it is. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on November 15, 2016, 03:56:04 PM
(https://assets.dnainfo.com/photo/2016/11/1479142022-281907/extralarge.jpg)

Until today I had no idea white women loved pumpkin spice lattes.  Thank you internet, your stereotyping and casual misogyny has taught me a valuable lesson.   :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 15, 2016, 04:08:56 PM
But wouldn't that make them like racism??
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 15, 2016, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2016, 04:08:56 PM
But wouldn't that make them like racism??

They may not have thought it through. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 15, 2016, 04:25:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 15, 2016, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2016, 04:08:56 PM
But wouldn't that make them like racism??

They may not have thought it through. :hmm:

White women be like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 15, 2016, 04:42:31 PM
Who knew white women would turn out to be such villains :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 15, 2016, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2016, 07:27:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 07:05:31 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2016, 04:55:48 AM
I'll raise you.

http://gothamist.com/2016/11/14/bar_tabac_trump_supporter_attack.php

QuoteMale Trump Supporter Sucker-Punches Woman Who Disagrees With Him At Brooklyn Restaurant

One seems like an exercise in free speech (weren't you all about that?) and one seems like violence. :hmm:

This thread is for posting things people post on Facebook and other social media. There are also similar reports of Trump supporters being physically assaulted.

I got that from social media. A friend of mine in New York posted it. Not sure how its not relevant to post if you're going to put up some random women's post.

The point of the thread is to point and laugh, there's nothing funny about some random assault.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 15, 2016, 05:48:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2016, 04:42:31 PM
Who knew white women would turn out to be such villains :(

Must. Not. Make. Wife. Joke. Hnnnghh!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 05:54:22 PM
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15085637_659441017552105_3237061538326546441_n.jpg?oh=27e6b82ba67351a6e480535ded7ab1b9&oe=58D55F34)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 15, 2016, 06:45:57 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 15, 2016, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2016, 07:27:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2016, 07:05:31 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 15, 2016, 04:55:48 AM
I'll raise you.

http://gothamist.com/2016/11/14/bar_tabac_trump_supporter_attack.php

QuoteMale Trump Supporter Sucker-Punches Woman Who Disagrees With Him At Brooklyn Restaurant

One seems like an exercise in free speech (weren't you all about that?) and one seems like violence. :hmm:

This thread is for posting things people post on Facebook and other social media. There are also similar reports of Trump supporters being physically assaulted.

I got that from social media. A friend of mine in New York posted it. Not sure how its not relevant to post if you're going to put up some random women's post.

The point of the thread is to point and laugh, there's nothing funny about some random assault.

There's nothing funny about what Marti is doing either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on November 16, 2016, 04:46:39 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxX8cEPVEAAWFrE.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 07:05:46 AM
 :lol:

There are some jobs only immigrants wish to perform, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 07:52:30 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdigitalhobo.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2FComma-Comma-Comma.jpg&hash=e377e519b7aa29ca25da7d6942ef718cb9b965f6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 16, 2016, 12:16:17 PM
Sigh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2016, 08:22:54 PM
I don't get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on November 16, 2016, 08:25:46 PM
(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14947447_370737699935616_451570070917998015_n.jpg?oh=390255ffddc72b519bb938caed84f5a3&oe=5886DB1A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 16, 2016, 08:28:00 PM
Henry Kissinger?  Really?  He banged Jill St. John.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 16, 2016, 08:28:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2016, 08:22:54 PM
I don't get it.

Then you lack sufficient culture to be in our club :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on November 16, 2016, 08:35:43 PM
(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15027950_692750100887419_4395724738638413006_n.jpg?oh=3088ebad7af3acc67dde8c16a21b73af&oe=5888B3A7)

(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14993487_690206881141741_7239553416173577847_n.jpg?oh=1cdb25b73e12bdab34439e5b875415c0&oe=58D25A95)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on November 16, 2016, 08:50:06 PM
Some people on my Facebook feed actually believed the news story:

White Stripes Drummer Meg White To Replace Rush's Neil Peart (https://www.ncscooper.com/white-stripes-drummer-meg-white-to-replace-rushs-neil-peart/)

:lol:

I think the blocking of fake news sites by Google and Facebook is only treating the symptoms. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 17, 2016, 08:06:43 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15037225_1542624815764039_351975201190895158_n.jpg?oh=307653aa8b351493b89dd58ead5c17c4&oe=58C5B70F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 17, 2016, 08:07:23 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 16, 2016, 08:28:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2016, 08:22:54 PM
I don't get it.

Then you lack sufficient culture to be in our club :contract:

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 17, 2016, 08:08:36 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on November 16, 2016, 08:25:46 PM
(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14947447_370737699935616_451570070917998015_n.jpg?oh=390255ffddc72b519bb938caed84f5a3&oe=5886DB1A)

Damn feminists, always hating on old white men.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 17, 2016, 08:11:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 17, 2016, 08:06:43 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15037225_1542624815764039_351975201190895158_n.jpg?oh=307653aa8b351493b89dd58ead5c17c4&oe=58C5B70F)

Land is more appropriate for voting than population?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 17, 2016, 08:18:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 17, 2016, 08:11:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 17, 2016, 08:06:43 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15037225_1542624815764039_351975201190895158_n.jpg?oh=307653aa8b351493b89dd58ead5c17c4&oe=58C5B70F)

Land is more appropriate for voting than population?

That's what my friends post on Facebook - don't ask me. :P

But I would imagine there is an argument that the US is a republic rather than a democracy because it has a territorial component - for the same reason your Senate is undemocratic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 17, 2016, 08:19:04 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on November 16, 2016, 08:25:46 PM
(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14947447_370737699935616_451570070917998015_n.jpg?oh=390255ffddc72b519bb938caed84f5a3&oe=5886DB1A)

Ah, libertarians.  Is there no hatred they won't indulge in?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 17, 2016, 09:57:38 AM
3 of those are actual threat tho (not to Humanity, that's stupid).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 17, 2016, 09:58:49 AM
No, not really. In fact I think they are looking to expand into anti-consumerism at the same time advocating super-capitalism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on November 17, 2016, 10:00:06 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 17, 2016, 09:57:38 AM
3 of those are actual threat tho (not to Humanity, that's stupid).

The Rothschilds? :Joos:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 17, 2016, 10:01:26 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 17, 2016, 10:00:06 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 17, 2016, 09:57:38 AM
3 of those are actual threat tho (not to Humanity, that's stupid).

The Rothschilds? :Joos:

:yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on November 17, 2016, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 17, 2016, 10:01:26 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 17, 2016, 10:00:06 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 17, 2016, 09:57:38 AM
3 of those are actual threat tho (not to Humanity, that's stupid).

The Rothschilds? :Joos:

:yes:

Is it because they're actually lizard people?  :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 17, 2016, 12:12:36 PM
The only Rothschild that's a threat is Nat and the threat is to himself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 17, 2016, 12:13:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 17, 2016, 08:11:37 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 17, 2016, 08:06:43 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15037225_1542624815764039_351975201190895158_n.jpg?oh=307653aa8b351493b89dd58ead5c17c4&oe=58C5B70F)

Land is more appropriate for voting than population?

There are large rocks in a valley in Tennessee that matter more than all the hipsters put together.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 17, 2016, 12:15:33 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 17, 2016, 12:13:53 PM
There are large rocks in a valley in Tennessee that matter more than all the hipsters put together.

Ah, you must be feeling better! You're back on script. <_<
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 17, 2016, 12:19:53 PM
Those little blue counties don't matter much.  Other than the fact that most of the businesses, universities, R&D centers, seaports, airports, cultural facilities, and human beings are located there. 

But republicans don't really care about wealth creation do they?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 17, 2016, 12:21:21 PM
It's also where the crime is :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 17, 2016, 12:23:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 17, 2016, 12:21:21 PM
It's also where the crime is :ph34r:

As far as I know crime doesn't just occur on its own, doesn't grow out of the earth. You actually need people to carry it out. :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 17, 2016, 12:30:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 17, 2016, 12:23:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 17, 2016, 12:21:21 PM
It's also where the crime is :ph34r:

As far as I know crime doesn't just occur on its own, doesn't grow out of the earth. You actually need people to carry it out. :o

The type of people that tend to vote Democrat. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 17, 2016, 12:34:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 17, 2016, 12:21:21 PM
It's also where the crime is :ph34r:

Cities are safer.

http://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 17, 2016, 12:41:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 17, 2016, 12:15:33 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 17, 2016, 12:13:53 PM
There are large rocks in a valley in Tennessee that matter more than all the hipsters put together.

Ah, you must be feeling better! You're back on script. <_<

Disdain for hipsters has been at my core for years. Like, before other people picked up on it. Ugh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 17, 2016, 12:48:13 PM
A self-loathing hipster?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 17, 2016, 12:48:51 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 17, 2016, 12:41:05 PM
Disdain for hipsters has been at my core for years. Like, before other people picked up on it. Ugh.

But yet you'll betray your disdain for red state Tornado Alley dwellers in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 17, 2016, 12:49:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 17, 2016, 12:48:13 PM
A self-loathing hipster?

Stranger things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 17, 2016, 12:58:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 17, 2016, 12:48:51 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 17, 2016, 12:41:05 PM
Disdain for hipsters has been at my core for years. Like, before other people picked up on it. Ugh.

But yet you'll betray your disdain for red state Tornado Alley dwellers in a heartbeat.

They bought their houses, they knew what they were getting into.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 17, 2016, 02:02:24 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on November 17, 2016, 10:00:06 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 17, 2016, 09:57:38 AM
3 of those are actual threat tho (not to Humanity, that's stupid).

The Rothschilds? :Joos :

In fairness I think only 7 of the 8 people on there are Jews.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 17, 2016, 02:05:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XZzv0jl.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 17, 2016, 02:16:34 PM
Yes already posted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 17, 2016, 08:55:47 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fen8gikc.jpg&hash=e6852959069e89d900cdba1f2fdd92505ccab77c)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 17, 2016, 08:57:47 PM
I came.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 17, 2016, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 17, 2016, 08:57:47 PM
I came.

I'd make Rachel Maddow cry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 17, 2016, 10:20:24 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 15, 2016, 01:41:38 AM
*an Ape

I thought your spoke English in your country?  :huh:

:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 17, 2016, 11:18:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 17, 2016, 08:57:47 PM
I came.

I thought you liked Madcow :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 17, 2016, 11:41:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 17, 2016, 11:18:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 17, 2016, 08:57:47 PM
I came.

I thought you liked Madcow :huh:

Maybe you're not the only one that gets off on women crying, derforcedtocarryrapebabies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 18, 2016, 12:01:07 AM
:hug: LUV YA SEEDZ
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 18, 2016, 02:26:17 AM
Quote from: Brazen on December 07, 2015, 09:35:40 AM
Can we include corporations? IBM's #hackahairdryer campaign to attract women engineers was a recent epic fail.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/ibm-sparks-anger-with-hackahairdryer-campaign-aimed-at-women (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/ibm-sparks-anger-with-hackahairdryer-campaign-aimed-at-women)

Wow there's some bitchy women out there.
I'd heard of hack a hairdryer before and thought it sounded daft but reading about what it actually is, it seems quite reasonable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 18, 2016, 02:34:08 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 18, 2016, 02:26:17 AM
Quote from: Brazen on December 07, 2015, 09:35:40 AM
Can we include corporations? IBM's #hackahairdryer campaign to attract women engineers was a recent epic fail.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/ibm-sparks-anger-with-hackahairdryer-campaign-aimed-at-women (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/ibm-sparks-anger-with-hackahairdryer-campaign-aimed-at-women)

Wow there's some bitchy women out there.
I'd heard of hack a hairdryer before and thought it sounded daft but reading about what it actually is, it seems quite reasonable.

Okay, child.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 18, 2016, 07:05:37 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15032791_2259723764166542_6504728417659027462_n.jpg?oh=f27a99b6bb4f864843f721ce1bd4a81b&oe=588E893D)

So apparently this is not a spoof.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 18, 2016, 07:34:39 AM
http://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/portaloo-launches-multi-faith-toilet-and-washing-facilities
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 18, 2016, 07:38:55 AM
You can't make this shit up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 18, 2016, 07:40:58 AM
"multi-faith"? So, shitting while squatting is in the Koran or what? I thought that was a non-religious cultural thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 18, 2016, 07:54:39 AM
Maybe you can stone an atheist while pissing? I don't know.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 18, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
I know it must be hard to understand people taking steps to be kind to one another.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 08:09:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 18, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
I know it must be hard to understand people taking steps to be kind to one another.

It must also be hard to avoid actually finding out the facts before leaping to delusions. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on November 18, 2016, 08:19:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 08:09:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 18, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
I know it must be hard to understand people taking steps to be kind to one another.

It must also be hard to avoid actually finding out the facts before leaping to delusions.

Still, it's nice to know your toilet can cope with all possible delusions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 18, 2016, 08:23:47 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 18, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
I know it must be hard to understand people taking steps to be kind to one another.

What is the kindness that is being extended here exactly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 18, 2016, 08:27:07 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 08:09:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 18, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
I know it must be hard to understand people taking steps to be kind to one another.

It must also be hard to avoid actually finding out the facts before leaping to delusions.

It's pretty easy, actually. Nobody posted any facts and I didn't click garbon's article.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 18, 2016, 10:38:32 AM
I'm going to take a big firm dump in an ISIS urinal, praise God in Jesus's name, amen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 18, 2016, 10:40:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/11037083_665299426936572_7584068021651261000_n.png?oh=26548f72e2010aa5ba5f4974019659fd&oe=58C03AF2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 18, 2016, 10:43:27 AM
Lion pride = "go back to Africa!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 18, 2016, 10:44:40 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 18, 2016, 10:43:27 AM
Lion pride = "go back to Africa!"



LOL fucking socialist union types
#MakeCheetahKillsGreatAgain
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 18, 2016, 10:45:57 AM
I have never heard of 'Asian Pride' before.

When Iranians see a Japanese guy are they all like 'Asian Pride!'?

Anyway lots of white pride and heritage events exist. Like St. Patrick's Day. This is one of those bizarre strawmen that I cannot believe people buy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 18, 2016, 10:53:22 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15073547_1308657322560652_4759683768411342455_n.jpg?oh=2a8d1503aa6be9110b2b70e4dc0b834e&oe=588CD81F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on November 18, 2016, 10:55:29 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on November 18, 2016, 11:35:07 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 18, 2016, 11:36:37 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 08:09:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 18, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
I know it must be hard to understand people taking steps to be kind to one another.

It must also be hard to avoid actually finding out the facts before leaping to delusions.

Please, that's all we do here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 18, 2016, 11:36:37 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 08:09:16 AM
It must also be hard to avoid actually finding out the facts before leaping to delusions.

Please, that's all we do here.

Yes, I know that's all you do.  I'm simply noting that you work hard to achieve your level of ignorance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on November 18, 2016, 11:50:53 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 18, 2016, 11:36:37 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 08:09:16 AM
It must also be hard to avoid actually finding out the facts before leaping to delusions.

Please, that's all we do here.

Yes, I know that's all you do.  I'm simply noting that you work hard to achieve your level of ignorance.

Do you feel better now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 18, 2016, 01:23:45 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 18, 2016, 11:50:53 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on November 18, 2016, 11:36:37 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2016, 08:09:16 AM
It must also be hard to avoid actually finding out the facts before leaping to delusions.

Please, that's all we do here.

Yes, I know that's all you do.  I'm simply noting that you work hard to achieve your level of ignorance.

Do you feel better now?

He's right though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 18, 2016, 04:21:10 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15078639_10155214293576729_3736938476724385291_n.jpg?oh=2381eb42a33bbcc9ad633cb1d2d39dfb&oe=58B858D5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 18, 2016, 04:25:06 PM
At least they are using sustainable cloth diapers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 18, 2016, 04:33:59 PM
A bit rich given the right's stance on Obama...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 18, 2016, 04:38:31 PM
Which is...?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 18, 2016, 04:40:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 18, 2016, 04:33:59 PM
A bit rich given the right's stance on Obama...

I don't know what you insinuate. The right took Obama's presidency in good spirits and not once whined or protested against him. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 18, 2016, 04:41:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 18, 2016, 04:38:31 PM
Which is...?

That all of his policies should be opposed and undermined. Which I believe is essentially the stance by the 'not my President' types.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 18, 2016, 04:50:50 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 18, 2016, 10:53:22 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15073547_1308657322560652_4759683768411342455_n.jpg?oh=2a8d1503aa6be9110b2b70e4dc0b834e&oe=588CD81F)
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2016, 04:53:07 PM
Dude looks a bit like an orange Pepe in that picture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 18, 2016, 05:00:42 PM
Life imitates "art"  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 18, 2016, 05:24:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 18, 2016, 04:38:31 PM
Which is...?

Obama is not a citizen and he stole the election.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 18, 2016, 05:28:26 PM
Yeah I have accused them of being like the birthers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on November 18, 2016, 10:35:38 PM
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WWNbf2MMmco
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 20, 2016, 06:48:06 AM
(https://scontent.flhr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15036367_10154253234944220_3204376754961080889_n.jpg?oh=cdfa14a30b8cc3dcf80b7ef6e4829b56&oe=58BDF0E1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 20, 2016, 04:52:25 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15134764_1146138218806775_6802125664030350819_n.jpg?oh=e8c367b699b028d00693ae7abc818892&oe=5886CFC0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 04:59:02 PM
Seriously: who the fuck are these people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 20, 2016, 05:01:41 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 04:59:02 PM
Seriously: who the fuck are these people?

People who operate within a completely different paradigm than yours*.

*Hint: doesn't mean either of you is right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 20, 2016, 05:03:34 PM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15095118_661804290649111_7157561868054988066_n.jpg?oh=d55de39cb07e4c88bb27bca590ad7d67&oe=58D17DEE)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:04:00 PM
Didn't they win? Maybe they only did in my paradigm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:07:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 20, 2016, 05:03:34 PM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15095118_661804290649111_7157561868054988066_n.jpg?oh=d55de39cb07e4c88bb27bca590ad7d67&oe=58D17DEE)

:lol:

OMG the big liberal corporation hates conservatives and Trump!!!

So much for the paradigm where we are all beating them to death and shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 20, 2016, 05:08:08 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 04:59:02 PM
Seriously: who the fuck are these people?

In this case it was posted by my niece's husband, an Army sergeant who also wondered why police didn't disperse Anti-Trump-Protesters with  few rounds fired over their heads.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:14:23 PM
Man those pitiful little protests sure hit a nerve. Maybe I was wrong to roll my eyes at them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 20, 2016, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 20, 2016, 05:08:08 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 04:59:02 PM
Seriously: who the fuck are these people?

In this case it was posted by my niece's husband, an Army sergeant who also wondered why police didn't disperse Anti-Trump-Protesters with  few rounds fired over their heads.

lol, over their heads and into what? 
JUST SHOOT THE GUN OUT OF HIS HAND
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 05:19:51 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 20, 2016, 05:01:41 PM
People who operate within a completely different paradigm than yours*.

*Hint: doesn't mean either of you is right.

What paradigm would that be?*

*Hint: Sometimes, the expression of astonishment comes not from the incapacity to conceive of a different worldview, but from the endless capacity of authoritarians of all stripes (who generally celebrate power and violence) to continuously portray themselves as victims. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:14:23 PM
Man those pitiful little protests sure hit a nerve. Maybe I was wrong to roll my eyes at them.

I swear, I'll never understand the contemporary Americans' horror at protest and demonstration, including for those who would otherwise describe themselves as liberals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 20, 2016, 05:24:00 PM
I figure it's a riff on that protest at a Trump rally in California that got violent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 20, 2016, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:14:23 PM
Man those pitiful little protests sure hit a nerve. Maybe I was wrong to roll my eyes at them.

I swear, I'll never understand the contemporary Americans' horror at protest and demonstration, including for those who would otherwise describe themselves as liberals.

I don't know about contemporary Americans or liberals but most decent human beings are horrified at people who vandalise property and assault fellow citizens no matter what they are protesting for or against.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 05:32:33 PM
I'll take your assessment of what constitutes human decency with a tiny grain of salt. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:32:39 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:14:23 PM
Man those pitiful little protests sure hit a nerve. Maybe I was wrong to roll my eyes at them.

I swear, I'll never understand the contemporary Americans' horror at protest and demonstration, including for those who would otherwise describe themselves as liberals.

I think protests are great. I have participated in a few. So your condemnation is misplaced.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 05:34:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:32:39 PM
I think protests are great. I have participated in a few. So your condemnation is misplaced.

Apologies for misunderstanding your position. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 20, 2016, 05:35:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:32:39 PM
I think protests are great. I have participated in a few. So your condemnation is misplaced.

Rushing the field after the upset against Nebraska in '99 doesn't really count as a protest.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:36:43 PM
Quote

I don't know about contemporary Americans or liberals but most decent human beings are horrified at people who vandalise property and assault fellow citizens no matter what they are protesting for or against.

Sure. I don't believe that was characteristic of those protests though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 20, 2016, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 20, 2016, 05:03:34 PM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15095118_661804290649111_7157561868054988066_n.jpg?oh=d55de39cb07e4c88bb27bca590ad7d67&oe=58D17DEE)

:lol:

I thought they spit in it already.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on November 20, 2016, 09:17:35 PM
(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14915389_1714136038902124_6216076666066420371_n.jpg?oh=47b706b8d7a9c0dba9093e344cd98b02&oe=58886CFD)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 21, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15078521_10157756805870483_7030757089105800050_n.jpg?oh=33642c6490885ec4045ec4782db8630f&oe=58CB2BEC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 12:49:44 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on November 20, 2016, 05:34:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2016, 05:32:39 PM
I think protests are great. I have participated in a few. So your condemnation is misplaced.

Apologies for misunderstanding your position. :)

I thought the protests were poorly timed, badly organized, and basically weak sauce. But they certainly seemed to get the message across so...guess I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 21, 2016, 01:38:51 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14702401_1154150624677073_5209027654594965805_n.jpg?oh=ac9eddd3079f23bd680fd2316f308666&oe=58B6F6EE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Archy on November 21, 2016, 01:41:36 AM
Amen, but I won't share  :menace:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 21, 2016, 04:06:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 21, 2016, 01:38:51 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14702401_1154150624677073_5209027654594965805_n.jpg?oh=ac9eddd3079f23bd680fd2316f308666&oe=58B6F6EE)

Amen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 21, 2016, 04:21:33 AM
My oldest sister keeps posting stuff like this, while at the same time posting pics complaining about people expecting free stuff or not wanting to put in any effort to improve their situation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 21, 2016, 04:37:19 AM
Yeah, funny how blessings usually happen to people who don't need them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 21, 2016, 04:48:30 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 21, 2016, 04:37:19 AM
Yeah, funny how blessings usually happen to people who don't need them.

God helps those who help themselves. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 21, 2016, 08:22:19 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 21, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
(snip)

I like that one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 21, 2016, 08:24:12 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 21, 2016, 04:21:33 AM
My oldest sister keeps posting stuff like this, while at the same time posting pics complaining about people expecting free stuff or not wanting to put in any effort to improve their situation.

God     Given    Right
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 21, 2016, 09:03:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 21, 2016, 08:22:19 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 21, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
(snip)

I like that one.

Yet another illustration of how flawed that scale is, they posit "make America gay" and "grab America by the pussy" as being equivalent socially and opposed economically.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 21, 2016, 09:27:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 20, 2016, 05:03:34 PM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15095118_661804290649111_7157561868054988066_n.jpg?oh=d55de39cb07e4c88bb27bca590ad7d67&oe=58D17DEE)

:lol:

:lol:  Awesome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:29:09 AM
The first time I post something about my professional life on social media will be the day after my lobotomy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 21, 2016, 09:30:30 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 20, 2016, 05:24:00 PM
I figure it's a riff on that protest at a Trump rally in California that got violent.

I figured it was about the Trump supporters that got beaten in Chicago, NYC and other places.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 21, 2016, 09:31:20 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:29:09 AM
The first time I post something about my professional life on social media will be the day after my lobotomy.

Uh yeah.  Sam Montgomery just learned a valuable lesson.  I hope.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:32:11 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 21, 2016, 09:30:30 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 20, 2016, 05:24:00 PM
I figure it's a riff on that protest at a Trump rally in California that got violent.

I figured it was about the Trump supporters that got beaten in Chicago, NYC and other places.

Well rest assured I will not savagely beat even one Trump supporter this Thanksgiving.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 21, 2016, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:32:11 AM
Well rest assured I will not savagely beat even one Trump supporter this Thanksgiving.

Neither will I.  But man, there is going to be some epic bare knuckle brawling in some family Thanksgivings this Thursday.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/americans-idea-talking-politics-thanksgiving-stressful/story?id=43661049
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 21, 2016, 09:47:47 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 21, 2016, 09:03:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 21, 2016, 08:22:19 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 21, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
(snip)

I like that one.

Yet another illustration of how flawed that scale is, they posit "make America gay" and "grab America by the pussy" as being equivalent socially and opposed economically.

Yeah if anything these should be the opposite given that gays are more likely to prefer lower taxes and lower social spending.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 21, 2016, 09:47:47 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 21, 2016, 09:03:29 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 21, 2016, 08:22:19 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 21, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
(snip)

I like that one.

Yet another illustration of how flawed that scale is, they posit "make America gay" and "grab America by the pussy" as being equivalent socially and opposed economically.

Yeah if anything these should be the opposite given that gays are more likely to prefer lower taxes and lower social spending.

And Commies want to grab everybody's pussy. 'This is property of the people!'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:51:20 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 21, 2016, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:32:11 AM
Well rest assured I will not savagely beat even one Trump supporter this Thanksgiving.

Neither will I.  But man, there is going to be some epic bare knuckle brawling in some family Thanksgivings this Thursday.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/americans-idea-talking-politics-thanksgiving-stressful/story?id=43661049

Oh yeah. This year, though, I will probably get into fights with all the Cowboys fans during the game.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 21, 2016, 10:26:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:29:09 AM
The first time I post something about my professional life on social media will be the day after my lobotomy.

:blink:

I thought your facebook postings today were rather good, all things considered.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 10:30:17 AM
None of my facebook postings contain information about my job :P

'I am going to spit in the face of every lawyer who voted for Trump in court today.'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 21, 2016, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 21, 2016, 09:30:30 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 20, 2016, 05:24:00 PM
I figure it's a riff on that protest at a Trump rally in California that got violent.

I figured it was about the Trump supporters that got beaten in Chicago, NYC and other places.

Like this one? (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/trump-protester-i-was-beaten-for-holding-a-republicans-against-trump-sign)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 21, 2016, 12:03:12 PM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15095666_1114687751985842_889135267087796005_n.jpg?oh=5beeac031be4925bb1ff6803e4b8535d&oe=58C6FC9D)

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 12:16:25 PM
Hasn't stopped every single US President since...um...Hitler I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 21, 2016, 10:49:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:29:09 AM
The first time I post something about my professional life on social media will be the day after my lobotomy.
I think it takes more than a day to recover from the operation sufficiently enough to be able to do it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 21, 2016, 10:53:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 10:30:17 AM
None of my facebook postings contain information about my job :P

'I am going to spit in the face of every lawyer who voted for Trump in court today.'

I restrict my FB posting about my job to linking to the odd newspaper account about my court cases.  Seems safer that way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 21, 2016, 10:55:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:49:23 AM
And Commies want to grab everybody's pussy. 'This is property of the people!'

I dunno, man...Grab That Pussy, as vulture capitalistic as it is, certainly sounds better than Nationalize That Pussy In The Name Of The Revolution.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 21, 2016, 11:59:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 21, 2016, 10:55:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 21, 2016, 09:49:23 AM
And Commies want to grab everybody's pussy. 'This is property of the people!'

I dunno, man...Grab That Pussy, as vulture capitalistic as it is, certainly sounds better than Nationalize That Pussy In The Name Of The Revolution.

Ide probably just came.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 05:21:16 AM
Things I've noticed is that whatever depravity Trump supporters commit, the fault really is with liberals.  In fact, liberals almost certainly staged it. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 22, 2016, 05:25:44 AM
Clearly the Democrats conspired to make Trump president to discredit Republicans for decades to come.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 07:23:31 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15110441_10100580633318534_8460265446535271811_o.jpg)

Incidentally, this was posted, unironically, by a leftist and got many likes and cheers.

I suppose Syt's sister has many competitors on the left - but they happen to be college educated (or even teach at colleges).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 22, 2016, 07:26:19 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 05:21:16 AM
Things I've noticed is that whatever depravity Trump supporters commit, the fault really is with liberals.  In fact, liberals almost certainly staged it.
:yes: They can't help themselves.  If you care about the country, the onus is on the sane ones to compromise, go half-way, keep going half-way as the half-way continuously moves rightward, and to never ever hurt their feelings lest it inflame their innate racism and nativism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 08:15:50 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 07:23:31 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15110441_10100580633318534_8460265446535271811_o.jpg)

Incidentally, this was posted, unironically, by a leftist and got many likes and cheers.

I suppose Syt's sister has many competitors on the left - but they happen to be college educated (or even teach at colleges).

I'm happy with it.  There was a time in this country were beating Nazis was a virtue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 22, 2016, 07:26:19 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 05:21:16 AM
Things I've noticed is that whatever depravity Trump supporters commit, the fault really is with liberals.  In fact, liberals almost certainly staged it.
:yes: They can't help themselves.  If you care about the country, the onus is on the sane ones to compromise, go half-way, keep going half-way as the half-way continuously moves rightward, and to never ever hurt their feelings lest it inflame their innate racism and nativism.

Black Church gets burned down and "vote Trump" painted on the side.  Staged to make Trump look bad.

Alt-Right leaders giving the Nazi Salute complete with "Hail, Victory", and "Hail, Trump".  Liberals put him up to it to "divide the races".

And so on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 08:36:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 08:15:50 AM
I'm happy with it.  There was a time in this country were beating Nazis was a virtue.

You sound exactly like the leftists on my Facebook. I guess pointing out that this was the case when the US was at war with the Nazis and Nazis were committing genocide, as opposed to the situation where you are calling "Nazi" a fellow citizen who voted for a candidate you dislike and who so far has not done - nor promise to do - anything Nazi-like, fell on deaf ears there so I do not suppose it would go through to your dumb skull.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 09:27:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 08:36:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 08:15:50 AM
I'm happy with it.  There was a time in this country were beating Nazis was a virtue.

You sound exactly like the leftists on my Facebook. I guess pointing out that this was the case when the US was at war with the Nazis and Nazis were committing genocide, as opposed to the situation where you are calling "Nazi" a fellow citizen who voted for a candidate you dislike and who so far has not done - nor promise to do - anything Nazi-like, fell on deaf ears there so I do not suppose it would go through to your dumb skull.

I don't know what the leftists on your Facebook say because you banned me.  I will note, that I believe the audience was expected to believe that Indiana Jones was fighting a Nazi, not simply someone he disagreed with.  When the Alt-Right calls themselves Fascists and gives the Nazi salute, I think it is appropriate to consider them Nazis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
The "alt right" does that just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro. You are judging the whole group by stupid actions of a fringe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 09:39:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro.

Oh no, those are just harmless, lovable, well-meaning folks.  Nothing to see there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2016, 09:54:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 09:39:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro.

Oh no, those are just harmless, lovable, well-meaning folks.  Nothing to see there.

Uh oh, derspiess gets triggered, transforms into Moe Greene
MOE SMASH! MOE STRAIGHTENS OUT FREDO!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 09:59:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2016, 09:54:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 09:39:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro.

Oh no, those are just harmless, lovable, well-meaning folks.  Nothing to see there.

Uh oh, derspiess gets triggered, transforms into Moe Greene
MOE SMASH! MOE STRAIGHTENS OUT FREDO!

You on your cigarette break?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2016, 10:03:36 AM
Coffee break.  With my "Vivá Ché..con Leche!" mug.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 22, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
Is Amerikkka back to a Commie vs Fascist fight?

I'm excited!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 22, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
Is Amerikkka back to a Commie vs Fascist fight?

I'm excited!

It's back to a Dumb vs Dumber fight. And it's hard to say which is which.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2016, 10:20:44 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 22, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
Is Amerikkka back to a Commie vs Fascist fight?

I'm excited!

derspiess has a problem with certain Coobans and Thee Cooban Revolution.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2016, 10:21:53 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 22, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
Is Amerikkka back to a Commie vs Fascist fight?

I'm excited!

It's back to a Dumb vs Dumber fight. And it's hard to say which is which.

Really? The Polish fake lawyer is going to start shit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:28:48 PM
Incidentally, in relation to my discussion about this meme with Indiana Jones, I have just been accused of "gaslighting, which is an abusive behaviour".

Can any of you precious snowflakes explain to me what the fuck this means?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2016, 12:31:59 PM
You light your farts.  Stop it
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 22, 2016, 12:32:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:28:48 PM
Incidentally, in relation to my discussion about this meme with Indiana Jones, I have just been accused of "gaslighting, which is an abusive behaviour".

Can any of you precious snowflakes explain to me what the fuck this means?

You have google. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 22, 2016, 12:33:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:28:48 PM
Incidentally, in relation to my discussion about this meme with Indiana Jones, I have just been accused of "gaslighting, which is an abusive behaviour".

Can any of you precious snowflakes explain to me what the fuck this means?

It's trying to manipulate someone into questioning their own memory or perception of what is going on.

It's a real thing, often seen in abusive relationships ('he only hits me because he loves me too much'), but of course has become trendy in certain online circles where it us used to end debate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:35:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 22, 2016, 12:32:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:28:48 PM
Incidentally, in relation to my discussion about this meme with Indiana Jones, I have just been accused of "gaslighting, which is an abusive behaviour".

Can any of you precious snowflakes explain to me what the fuck this means?

You have google. :)

I used google. How does this work in an online debate between people who do not know each other? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:39:16 PM
To be honest, I am really getting tired of all the arguments I have been having with people over Trump and the whole thing surrounding this. I feel there are things one side gets right and things the other side gets right. But people are so bristly about this.

Admittedly, the left has been more bristly lately than the right, but then again it could be explained by the right being more relaxed in their recent victory.

I think I should go back to making fun of both sides rather than trying to convince anyone why they are wrong. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 22, 2016, 12:45:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 08:36:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 08:15:50 AM
I'm happy with it.  There was a time in this country were beating Nazis was a virtue.

You sound exactly like the leftists on my Facebook. I guess pointing out that this was the case when the US was at war with the Nazis and Nazis were committing genocide, as opposed to the situation where you are calling "Nazi" a fellow citizen who voted for a candidate you dislike and who so far has not done - nor promise to do - anything Nazi-like, fell on deaf ears there so I do not suppose it would go through to your dumb skull.

Gosh you mean accusing your opponents of being Nazis is stupid and hyperbolic? Well thank you for this brand new fucking exciting information. Where were you in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and last decade the last million times this happened?

It was just a few years ago right wing people were parading around UT campus and handed me a flyer explaining that Obama was trying to become a fascist dictator and was engaging in the biggest genocide in history. I made a joke here about how unlucky the US is because every single President we elect is Hitler. And I don't recall you flipping the fuck out over 'Hitlery'. Remember the Bush=Hilter jokes we were making when he was President? Do you know why we did that? Because this happens all the time constantly.

You wanted him to be President, being called Hitler is part of the gig.

Or, you know, Canadian Prime Minister.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gregfelton.com%2Fcanpol%2F2014_11_09_HitlerStalinHarper.gif&hash=529f675381b5d7a53bfafa50b86ee1a6da5f2bb0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 22, 2016, 12:46:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:39:16 PM

I think I should go back to making fun of both sides rather than trying to convince anyone why they are wrong. :P

You are never going to convince everybody of something. You might convince a few people of something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
The "alt right" does that just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro. You are judging the whole group by stupid actions of a fringe.

The "alt right" is the fringe.  There are no moderates, just like there are no moderate Hezbollah.  As it happens the guy giving the Nazi salute was Spencer one of the founders.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
The "alt right" does that just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro. You are judging the whole group by stupid actions of a fringe.

The "alt right" is the fringe.  There are no moderates, just like there are no moderate Hezbollah.  As it happens the guy giving the Nazi salute was Spencer one of the founders.

How many "alt right" people do you know personally?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 12:50:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 22, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
It's trying to manipulate someone into questioning their own memory or perception of what is going on.

Does it really work?  Do you need Jedi mind powers or something to pull it off?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 22, 2016, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
The "alt right" does that just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro. You are judging the whole group by stupid actions of a fringe.

The "alt right" is the fringe.  There are no moderates, just like there are no moderate Hezbollah.  As it happens the guy giving the Nazi salute was Spencer one of the founders.

How many "alt right" people do you know personally?

Well he does live in Missouri.

But Alt Right people are self declared sworn enemies to Raz and his beliefs so what common ground could they really have?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 22, 2016, 12:52:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 12:50:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 22, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
It's trying to manipulate someone into questioning their own memory or perception of what is going on.

Does it really work?  Do you need Jedi mind powers or something to pull it off?

Yeah it does. It is pretty easy actually. My ex used to do it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 22, 2016, 12:53:15 PM
I see what you did there, Darth Spiess
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:56:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 22, 2016, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
The "alt right" does that just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro. You are judging the whole group by stupid actions of a fringe.

The "alt right" is the fringe.  There are no moderates, just like there are no moderate Hezbollah.  As it happens the guy giving the Nazi salute was Spencer one of the founders.

How many "alt right" people do you know personally?

Well he does live in Missouri.

But Alt Right people are self declared sworn enemies to Raz and his beliefs so what common ground could they really have?

Well, I don't know. There are several different platforms on which you can interact with people who have different views - you could go to school together, work together, belong to the same family, go to the same church, participate in the same charity (or even post on the same forum - hur hur).

Thanks to my recent participation in a certain "fraternal" organisation I actually met (both face-to-face and via Facebook) people with views ranging from very SJW-y to very libertarian right (more right than derspiess or Otto) and who sympathise with certain aspects of "alt right" but with whom I managed to keep civil discourse and whom I respect despite having very different views on some things than I. I think it is useful to talk to people you disagree with. Otherwise it's just an echo chamber.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 01:05:39 PM
Incidentally, one meme/bon mot I have seen used recently is saying that the liberal equivalent of alt-right is the control-left. I hope it holds as it is pretty good. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 22, 2016, 01:13:03 PM
Siegy used it first, it's Tainted.  With blood libel.  And wine coolers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 22, 2016, 01:28:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 22, 2016, 12:51:40 PM
what common ground could they really have?
end all trade treaties?  Sanders supporters don't seem to have much problems working with Trump, from what I hear.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 22, 2016, 01:54:03 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx3Xb7DWIAAcxkM.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 22, 2016, 01:57:11 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:28:48 PM
Incidentally, in relation to my discussion about this meme with Indiana Jones, I have just been accused of "gaslighting, which is an abusive behaviour".

Can any of you precious snowflakes explain to me what the fuck this means?

It's from a 1940s era movie, not exactly cutting edge techno-speak.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 22, 2016, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
The "alt right" does that just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro. You are judging the whole group by stupid actions of a fringe.

The "alt right" is the fringe.  There are no moderates, just like there are no moderate Hezbollah.  As it happens the guy giving the Nazi salute was Spencer one of the founders.

How many "alt right" people do you know personally?

I know at least one. Although I haven't met him personally in some time, we still communicate regularly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 22, 2016, 02:06:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 22, 2016, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
The "alt right" does that just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro. You are judging the whole group by stupid actions of a fringe.

The "alt right" is the fringe.  There are no moderates, just like there are no moderate Hezbollah.  As it happens the guy giving the Nazi salute was Spencer one of the founders.

How many "alt right" people do you know personally?

I know at least one. Although I haven't met him personally in some time, we still communicate regularly.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 02:30:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 22, 2016, 01:54:03 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx3Xb7DWIAAcxkM.jpg)

This is actually kinda funny. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 22, 2016, 02:47:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 08:36:30 AM
You sound exactly like the leftists on my Facebook. I guess pointing out that this was the case when the US was at war with the Nazis and Nazis were committing genocide, as opposed to the situation where you are calling "Nazi" a fellow citizen who voted for a candidate you dislike and who so far has not done - nor promise to do - anything Nazi-like, fell on deaf ears there so I do not suppose it would go through to your dumb skull.

You sound exactly like the Trump apologists on my Facebook.  Trump argues that he will bring back torture :"even if it doesn't work," you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me." Trump argues that he will force a religious group to register themselves and promises to band them from entering the country, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."  Trump promises to kill the families of those he suspects to be terrorists, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."

Nothing seems to be Nazi-like enough to repel you except overt Naziism.  And you wonder why no one here seems to be able to distinguish you from the rest of the alt-right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 22, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 22, 2016, 02:47:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 08:36:30 AM
You sound exactly like the leftists on my Facebook. I guess pointing out that this was the case when the US was at war with the Nazis and Nazis were committing genocide, as opposed to the situation where you are calling "Nazi" a fellow citizen who voted for a candidate you dislike and who so far has not done - nor promise to do - anything Nazi-like, fell on deaf ears there so I do not suppose it would go through to your dumb skull.

You sound exactly like the Trump apologists on my Facebook.  Trump argues that he will bring back torture :"even if it doesn't work," you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me." Trump argues that he will force a religious group to register themselves and promises to band them from entering the country, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."  Trump promises to kill the families of those he suspects to be terrorists, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."

Nothing seems to be Nazi-like enough to repel you except overt Naziism.  And you wonder why no one here seems to be able to distinguish you from the rest of the alt-right.

Fair.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 03:30:11 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 22, 2016, 02:47:07 PM
You sound exactly like the Trump apologists on my Facebook.  Trump argues that he will bring back torture :"even if it doesn't work," you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me." Trump argues that he will force a religious group to register themselves and promises to band them from entering the country, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."  Trump promises to kill the families of those he suspects to be terrorists, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."

Nothing seems to be Nazi-like enough to repel you except overt Naziism.  And you wonder why no one here seems to be able to distinguish you from the rest of the alt-right.

How are those things uniquely Nazi?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 22, 2016, 03:47:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:56:52 PM
Thanks to my recent participation in a certain "fraternal" organisation I actually met (both face-to-face and via Facebook) people with views ranging from very SJW-y to very libertarian right (more right than derspiess or Otto) and who sympathise with certain aspects of "alt right" but with whom I managed to keep civil discourse and whom I respect despite having very different views on some things than I. I think it is useful to talk to people you disagree with. Otherwise it's just an echo chamber.
Some of my best friends are ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 22, 2016, 04:02:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 03:30:11 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 22, 2016, 02:47:07 PM
You sound exactly like the Trump apologists on my Facebook.  Trump argues that he will bring back torture :"even if it doesn't work," you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me." Trump argues that he will force a religious group to register themselves and promises to band them from entering the country, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."  Trump promises to kill the families of those he suspects to be terrorists, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."

Nothing seems to be Nazi-like enough to repel you except overt Naziism.  And you wonder why no one here seems to be able to distinguish you from the rest of the alt-right.

How are those things uniquely Nazi?

Wait to be compared to something that thing has to be something that only has you in common with it? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 22, 2016, 04:12:37 PM
What grumbler describes sounds like Communism as much as Nazism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 22, 2016, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 22, 2016, 04:12:37 PM
What grumbler describes sounds like Communism as much as Nazism.

Oh well than that's a relief.  For a second there I thought there was something to worry about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 22, 2016, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 22, 2016, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 22, 2016, 04:12:37 PM
What grumbler describes sounds like Communism as much as Nazism.

Oh well than that's a relief.  For a second there I thought there was something to worry about.

:yes: As long as you don't wear glasses or speak a second language you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 22, 2016, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 22, 2016, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 22, 2016, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 22, 2016, 04:12:37 PM
What grumbler describes sounds like Communism as much as Nazism.

Oh well than that's a relief.  For a second there I thought there was something to worry about.

:yes: As long as you don't wear glasses or speak a second language you'll be fine.

Phew!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 06:02:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 22, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
The "alt right" does that just as the "left" is wearing Che t-shirts and praising Fidel Castro. You are judging the whole group by stupid actions of a fringe.

The "alt right" is the fringe.  There are no moderates, just like there are no moderate Hezbollah.  As it happens the guy giving the Nazi salute was Spencer one of the founders.

How many "alt right" people do you know personally?

Didn't care for being chased with a bat and called "kike".  If there are those in the Alt-Right who are Nazis and those who just trolls, is there any real material difference in how they should be treated?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 22, 2016, 08:20:03 PM
Trolls are just Nazis who are not yet comfortable being completely open about what they believe in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 23, 2016, 12:30:20 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 22, 2016, 02:47:07 PM
Nothing seems to be Nazi-like enough to repel you except overt Naziism.  And you wonder why no one here seems to be able to distinguish you from the rest of the alt-right.
The Nazis really disliked the gays.  Gays were killed, beaten, tortured or experimented upon to see if they could become heterosexual.

So long as Trump does not target the gays like that, he will never be nazi like enough for Marty.  I mean, it's clear he's not a facist, he did respect the electoral vote after all...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 23, 2016, 12:45:03 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 03:30:11 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 22, 2016, 02:47:07 PM
You sound exactly like the Trump apologists on my Facebook.  Trump argues that he will bring back torture :"even if it doesn't work," you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me." Trump argues that he will force a religious group to register themselves and promises to band them from entering the country, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."  Trump promises to kill the families of those he suspects to be terrorists, you say "not Nazi-like enough to repel me."

Nothing seems to be Nazi-like enough to repel you except overt Naziism.  And you wonder why no one here seems to be able to distinguish you from the rest of the alt-right.

How are those things uniquely Nazi?
not uniquely nazi.  Not even uniquely authoritarian since democracies did some of these things in the past.
However, if we judge by 21st century standards, you know, like today's standards, doing that kind of thing is clearly a sign of authoritarism, usually described as facism when it is centered on one individual, or a very small group of individuals.  That would fit with what we are seeing now.  Nearly everyone seems opposed to many of Trump's actions regarding torture or assassination, yet he and his close followers intend to go through with it.

Since he is going to name judges who favor his ideas as he gets to name replacements, and since the Republican Congress is too scared to oppose him, it is a form of facism.  Calling it nazism may shock some people, because we have yet to see concentration camps and millions of dead people, and even I doubt it will go that far, but usually, we do not define a regime by its effects, but by its nature.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 23, 2016, 01:53:05 AM
Incidentally, here's a good clip illustrating the attitude I am talking about from a recent Bill Maher's show - notice the woman's reaction to what Maher is saying:

https://youtu.be/y3-uNxmNj5o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 23, 2016, 05:48:22 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15078901_692141870935945_5541049060795852132_n.jpg?oh=5df006a1ce1d5683cb74c6601551b436&oe=58D08EB6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 23, 2016, 07:01:47 AM
Oh those strong dictators and their golden ages!!!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 23, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
This last meme isn't very controversial, is it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 07:49:08 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 23, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
This last meme isn't very controversial, is it?

Only if you're into "A Hard Man Is Good To Find" homo t-shirt logos.  Don't forget your cutoff jeans and socks with your Dr. Martens, Suzie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 23, 2016, 07:52:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 07:49:08 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 23, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
This last meme isn't very controversial, is it?

Only if you're into "A Hard Man Is Good To Find" homo t-shirt logos.  Don't forget your cutoff jeans and socks with your Dr. Martens, Suzie.

That's moronic. What the meme basically describes is the theory of cyclical nature of history - it's one that has been dominant for most of the human history and only recently it has been replaced by one that claims a continuous progress.

Personally I think it's a mix - it's more like going up a mountain on a winding path - you tend to pass through the same area in cycles, but every time you do you are on a higher level, so to speak.

You guys really need to stop reading the "hidden patriarchal message" into everything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 23, 2016, 07:56:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 23, 2016, 07:52:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 07:49:08 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 23, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
This last meme isn't very controversial, is it?

Only if you're into "A Hard Man Is Good To Find" homo t-shirt logos.  Don't forget your cutoff jeans and socks with your Dr. Martens, Suzie.

That's moronic. What the meme basically describes is the theory of cyclical nature of history - it's one that has been dominant for most of the human history and only recently it has been replaced by one that claims a continuous progress.

Personally I think it's a mix - it's more like going up a mountain on a winding path - you tend to pass through the same area in cycles, but every time you do you are on a higher level, so to speak.

You guys really need to stop reading the "hidden patriarchal message" into everything.

And you forgot to look up as the sexual joke flew past you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 23, 2016, 08:07:57 AM
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12345666_10153829925102042_2096734364539901637_n.jpg?oh=298ef0f41009df219630d8a5f42b5ec4&oe=58CE4275)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 23, 2016, 08:53:39 AM
 :hmm: Not buying it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 23, 2016, 10:08:04 AM
Is that the Warmaster?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 10:13:37 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 23, 2016, 07:56:25 AM
And you forgot to look up as the sexual joke flew past you.

You get me, g.  I take comfort in that.  :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 23, 2016, 10:23:28 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 10:13:37 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 23, 2016, 07:56:25 AM
And you forgot to look up as the sexual joke flew past you.

You get me, g.  I take comfort in that.  :hug:

I was reminded of: "A good man is hard to find but a hard man is good to find."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 10:24:26 AM
Nevermind then. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 23, 2016, 10:25:58 AM
Hey you were then one who turned down my offer to be New York roomies in an apartment the size of a closet. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on November 23, 2016, 11:09:51 AM
 :lol:

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15078841_10211711429367107_3658714724511312126_n.jpg?oh=3a0b33f014691cd7390b1dac8e27bcf9&oe=58B97D10)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 11:12:49 AM
And this is why, no, we don't merge threads. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 23, 2016, 11:31:29 AM
Seedee has been on CNN:

https://youtu.be/Rhv8LlMvovU

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 23, 2016, 11:33:28 AM
Not used in-your-face ironically enough. Homo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on November 23, 2016, 05:48:50 PM
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15107409_1401083329903222_3920131199893647513_n.jpg?oh=0d713355bf88f120b4792e288911f07b&oe=58BC0C09)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2016, 05:50:49 PM
Already been done. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on November 23, 2016, 08:14:57 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15032909_1185022211574384_7352884584566494214_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=0bb84061215bbbdcd27aa83aafcaf23b&oe=58CB74C1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2016, 10:59:30 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15109579_1551654744861175_1413686927593343202_n.jpg?oh=7b2103d6c33de3ae0152fe6b16d57b2d&oe=58BE5D93)
Quote#obamasamerica
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 24, 2016, 01:49:10 PM
that's nice.  A bunch of comparative graphics that don't use the same timescale.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2016, 01:54:00 PM
They're generally very selective about the scales they're using.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Archy on November 25, 2016, 01:34:29 AM
You would almost suspect they were selected to make a certain point :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 25, 2016, 03:31:29 AM
QuoteToday marks 6 months without drinking a drop of Pepsi, or any kinds of soda or wines! 6 months without eating bread, cake or anything sweet. The change in my body has been fantastic, I feel great, I lost weight and my way of thinking is very positive... I'm looking to keep this up and go for more. Because I choose to!... No alcohol, eating healthy and above all, an hour of exercise every day!!!

I don't know who's status this is, but I was happy for them so I copied and pasted it. You can too
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 25, 2016, 04:09:25 AM
 :lol:

In all honesty, this is probably [spoiler]Beeb's wife's[/spoiler] status.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 25, 2016, 04:17:02 AM
That sounds absolutely dreadful.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on November 25, 2016, 06:12:44 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 25, 2016, 04:17:02 AM
That sounds absolutely dreadful.

I'm not sure what the recent backlash against bread is about, but otherwise I'd say it's pretty sound. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 25, 2016, 09:45:03 AM
I haven't drank soda  in about six months.  I don't feel fantastic. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 25, 2016, 09:45:55 AM
People should pay special attention to the last line.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 25, 2016, 09:58:10 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 25, 2016, 09:45:55 AM
People should pay special attention to the last line.

Social media filler, who knew.  :cool:


By the way have I told anyone about EdAnger's morning bowel movement?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 25, 2016, 10:32:54 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 25, 2016, 04:09:25 AM
:lol:

In all honesty, this is probably [spoiler]Beeb's wife's[/spoiler] status.  :ph34r:

She uses FB as more of a self-accountability tool than a "Woo look how awesome I am". :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 25, 2016, 10:42:59 AM
Quote from: Barrister on November 25, 2016, 10:32:54 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 25, 2016, 04:09:25 AM
:lol:

In all honesty, this is probably [spoiler]Beeb's wife's[/spoiler] status.  :ph34r:

She uses FB as more of a self-accountability tool than a "Woo look how awesome I am". :mellow:

:hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 25, 2016, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 25, 2016, 03:31:29 AM
QuoteToday marks 6 months without drinking a drop of Pepsi, or any kinds of soda or wines! 6 months without eating bread, cake or anything sweet. The change in my body has been fantastic, I feel great, I lost weight and my way of thinking is very positive... I'm looking to keep this up and go for more. Because I choose to!... No alcohol, eating healthy and above all, an hour of exercise every day!!!

I don't know who's status this is, but I was happy for them so I copied and pasted it. You can too

Fucking Russians and their propaganda bullshit already.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on November 25, 2016, 08:01:15 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 25, 2016, 09:58:10 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 25, 2016, 09:45:55 AM
People should pay special attention to the last line.

Social media filler, who knew.  :cool:


By the way have I told anyone about EdAnger's morning bowel movement?

You got a toilet cam set up or something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 26, 2016, 05:07:20 PM
A commentary to reactions on Fidel Castro's death:

QuoteAdolf Hitler, one of Germany's most iconic revolutionaries, commits suicide with his wife as foreign forces violently invade his self-made capital of Berlin.

Hitler, a life-long animal rights activist and vegetarian, was way before his time in science, medicine, and art; creating a state-of-the-art metropolis at the forefront of science and technology. He himself was a non-smoker, recognizing the latent health benefits.

He is survived only by his half-sister Angela, her 3 sons, and millions of loyal Germans who were touched deeply by his courage and resolve.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on November 26, 2016, 08:41:20 PM
(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15220128_966449636831772_6556461090716250307_n.png?oh=82d2b934c306dfb2061b29de219d0146&oe=58C1EC6E)

(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15202491_966449813498421_1112647247827244288_n.png?oh=e343b6f2d6cdfff5da6b3ea08b575d89&oe=58AFDA90)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 26, 2016, 11:29:31 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on November 26, 2016, 08:41:20 PM
(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15220128_966449636831772_6556461090716250307_n.png?oh=82d2b934c306dfb2061b29de219d0146&oe=58C1EC6E)

(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15202491_966449813498421_1112647247827244288_n.png?oh=e343b6f2d6cdfff5da6b3ea08b575d89&oe=58AFDA90)
One out of two ain't bad.  The second quote certainly explains the lack of a free press in Castro's Cuba, and the jamming of foreign radio stations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 27, 2016, 09:47:20 AM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15230784_617074868493620_8967608673853416405_n.jpg?oh=77e12007352e6a6bc1153196d9c1f0cd&oe=58CFE303)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on November 27, 2016, 04:55:17 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 27, 2016, 09:47:20 AM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15230784_617074868493620_8967608673853416405_n.jpg?oh=77e12007352e6a6bc1153196d9c1f0cd&oe=58CFE303)

Well, we have had a lot of "evil-clown" reports lately.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 27, 2016, 05:28:31 PM
QuoteIf nothing else can said for Hannibal Lecter, at least he had great taste in people. #TrudeauEulogies

While controversial, Emperor Palpatine brought order to the galaxy, ending a separatist movement & making tech advancements #TrudeauEulogies

While controversial at times, King Scar was a remarkable leader who did much to improve lion-hyena relations #TrudeauEulogies

Benedict Arnold: A hero whose loyalties were too wide to be confined within the narrow boundaries of a single cause. #TrudeauEulogies

Today we mourn the loss of Norman Bates, a family man who was truly defined by his devotion to his mother. #TrudeauEulogies

"While controversial, Darth Vader achieved great heights in space construction & played a formative role in his son's life" #TrudeauEulogies

I think I may like my PM, after all :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Martinus on November 28, 2016, 08:39:26 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F11%2Fimageedit_1347_4232263483.jpg&hash=a3d86d0765f825a508f14d10aac000666a2a6870)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 01, 2016, 02:22:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15078935_692850587541952_2513943745130943489_n.jpg?oh=f02b92c4e9417f9b0ddf063632aa367c&oe=58BD103A)

I like the latent mysoginy in this one. "Even girls are tougher than you!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 01, 2016, 06:53:10 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15241817_1124905184293316_4045297554939604010_n.jpg?oh=0d2fd95282ace66126a7f63a51c5e2af&oe=58B47C95)

This photo seems to have triggered French leftists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 01, 2016, 07:44:34 AM
Not quite sure I follow. Is that something like the return of that group of Fillon people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 01, 2016, 08:01:49 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 01, 2016, 02:22:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15078935_692850587541952_2513943745130943489_n.jpg?oh=f02b92c4e9417f9b0ddf063632aa367c&oe=58BD103A)

I like the latent mysoginy in this one. "Even girls are tougher than you!"

It is also a great example of that fallacy that Berkut spoke of where we compare the worst examples of the opponent with our best intentions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 01, 2016, 08:02:29 AM
I don't follow too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 01, 2016, 08:03:05 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 01, 2016, 07:44:34 AM
Not quite sure I follow. Is that something like the return of that group of Fillon people?

I think so. Sort of like Newt Gingrich returning to power or something ridiculous like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 01, 2016, 08:15:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 01, 2016, 08:03:05 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 01, 2016, 07:44:34 AM
Not quite sure I follow. Is that something like the return of that group of Fillon people?

I think so. Sort of like Newt Gingrich returning to power or something ridiculous like that.

There is (sadly?) no Newt Gingrich returning to power but yes it could be a throwback to this ridiculous '86 campaign slogan:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages-01.delcampe-static.net%2Fimg_large%2Fauction%2F000%2F281%2F684%2F571_001.jpg%3Fv%3D2&hash=a003d3ce3b297137ae9999cda00039005bd22c65)

Followed by a conservative victory, no less.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 01, 2016, 09:03:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 01, 2016, 08:01:49 AM
It is also a great example of that fallacy that Berkut spoke of where we compare the worst examples of the opponent with our best intentions.

Well, there's also this common variant on the theme:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fakphoto3.ask.fm%2Ff93%2Ffd97a%2Fa9db%2F4466%2Fba34%2Ff47e32dc11d5%2Foriginal%2F340449.jpg&hash=947b5bacaf381c8eb30750ef9d1edfc9db2e329c)

Clearly we need another proper World War with tens of millions of deaths to toughen up again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on December 01, 2016, 09:11:31 AM
I am certainly amazed at the lengths people will go to justify their need to feel better than others - like anyone posting that on facebook ever stormed a beach anywhere.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 01, 2016, 09:23:55 AM
I despised the beach.  I stormed around it all day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 01, 2016, 10:36:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 01, 2016, 09:03:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 01, 2016, 08:01:49 AM
It is also a great example of that fallacy that Berkut spoke of where we compare the worst examples of the opponent with our best intentions.

Well, there's also this common variant on the theme:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fakphoto3.ask.fm%2Ff93%2Ffd97a%2Fa9db%2F4466%2Fba34%2Ff47e32dc11d5%2Foriginal%2F340449.jpg&hash=947b5bacaf381c8eb30750ef9d1edfc9db2e329c)

Clearly we need another proper World War with tens of millions of deaths to toughen up again.

2016: grown men need to be protected from theater actors making polite statements about unity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 01, 2016, 11:35:40 AM
Hear this? Drop out of college and increase your chances to become a billionaire!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15230835_383999788610586_4058030028260262496_n.jpg?oh=9e1a76aa5dcb459ecd003c16f0dc94f5&oe=58BE55EC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 01, 2016, 11:48:25 AM
Damnit! I ruined my life :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 01, 2016, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 01, 2016, 11:35:40 AM
Hear this? Drop out of college and increase your chances to become a billionaire!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15230835_383999788610586_4058030028260262496_n.jpg?oh=9e1a76aa5dcb459ecd003c16f0dc94f5&oe=58BE55EC)
Once you eliminate those who inherited their fortune, how low does that figure drop to? ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 01, 2016, 12:06:21 PM
Hey now! The Koch brothers all have advanced degrees.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 01, 2016, 12:13:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 01, 2016, 11:35:40 AM
Hear this? Drop out of college and increase your chances to become a billionaire!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15230835_383999788610586_4058030028260262496_n.jpg?oh=9e1a76aa5dcb459ecd003c16f0dc94f5&oe=58BE55EC)

He only made half of it on his own, the rest belongs to his wife.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 01, 2016, 03:24:18 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 01, 2016, 09:11:31 AM
I am certainly amazed at the lengths people will go to justify their need to feel better than others - like anyone posting that on facebook ever stormed a beach anywhere.

I've stormed a beach!  :showoff:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 01, 2016, 03:26:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 01, 2016, 11:35:40 AM
Hear this? Drop out of college and increase your chances to become a billionaire!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15230835_383999788610586_4058030028260262496_n.jpg?oh=9e1a76aa5dcb459ecd003c16f0dc94f5&oe=58BE55EC)

82.4 percent of the unsourced statistics you read on the internet are made up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 01, 2016, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2016, 03:24:18 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 01, 2016, 09:11:31 AM
I am certainly amazed at the lengths people will go to justify their need to feel better than others - like anyone posting that on facebook ever stormed a beach anywhere.

I've stormed a beach!  :showoff:

With Scipio Africanus
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 01, 2016, 03:31:10 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2016, 03:24:18 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 01, 2016, 09:11:31 AM
I am certainly amazed at the lengths people will go to justify their need to feel better than others - like anyone posting that on facebook ever stormed a beach anywhere.

I've stormed a beach!  :showoff:

I'm telling IKK.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 01, 2016, 04:15:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 01, 2016, 03:31:10 PM
I'm telling IKK.

I didn't rub the beach.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 01, 2016, 04:36:22 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 01, 2016, 06:53:10 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15241817_1124905184293316_4045297554939604010_n.jpg?oh=0d2fd95282ace66126a7f63a51c5e2af&oe=58B47C95)

This photo seems to have triggered French leftists.

Everyone please note the ratio of two-button and three-button suits. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 01, 2016, 05:42:28 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2016, 04:15:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 01, 2016, 03:31:10 PM
I'm telling IKK.

I didn't rub the beach.  :ph34r:

Even after moths of begging?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on December 02, 2016, 09:54:25 AM
One of my cousins posted an online petition to Prosecute ND Sheriff For DAPL Violence! (https://actionsprout.io/674D32/initial)

I don't know enough about the issues to know if what he has done warrants prosecution; but I have my doubts that a society where the DA decides who to prosecute based on an online petition would be a very good one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on December 02, 2016, 12:17:59 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 01, 2016, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 01, 2016, 11:35:40 AM
Hear this? Drop out of college and increase your chances to become a billionaire!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15230835_383999788610586_4058030028260262496_n.jpg?oh=9e1a76aa5dcb459ecd003c16f0dc94f5&oe=58BE55EC)
Once you eliminate those who inherited their fortune, how low does that figure drop to? ;)

It would increase.  Rich people's children go to college and have a good time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 02, 2016, 01:51:47 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cyq52_6W8AAqyIj.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 02, 2016, 02:15:50 PM
Yes I have long heard of the atrocity of eating yogurt. Pretty derivative as this crime against humanity outrage was around academic circles decades ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 02, 2016, 02:17:04 PM
I see Ed's dealing with the quarterly dairy futures again.  Moo.  Squee.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on December 02, 2016, 04:21:33 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on December 02, 2016, 09:54:25 AM
One of my cousins posted an online petition to Prosecute ND Sheriff For DAPL Violence! (https://actionsprout.io/674D32/initial)

I don't know enough about the issues to know if what he has done warrants prosecution; but I have my doubts that a society where the DA decides who to prosecute based on an online petition would be a very good one.

the attorney who won the oakland police brutality case (guy hit by a gas canister) is on the case here, though I don't know whether she has a legitimate argument. I do know the locals here really dislike the protestors, and the governor just recently used his emergency powers during a recent blizzard to limit the protestors' ability to use state resources to stay safe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 02, 2016, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 02, 2016, 04:21:33 PM
I do know the locals here really dislike the protestors, and the governor just recently used his emergency powers during a recent blizzard to limit the protestors' ability to use state resources to stay safe.

Damn.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 02, 2016, 08:50:00 PM
Actually there is something that really annoys me about those kinds of 'our culture is EVILLLL' studies is their over-reliance on marketing and advertising campaigns and schemes as things that speak for and define our culture. I mean fuck are advertising and marketing companies aware they are culture defining institutions?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2016, 12:16:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2016, 02:15:50 PM
Yes I have long heard of the atrocity of eating yogurt. Pretty derivative as this crime against humanity outrage was around academic circles decades ago.

I agree; yogurt is a crime against humanity.

Unless it's frozen, in which case it's just inferior ice cream.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 03, 2016, 01:37:00 AM
I Don't Think This Is Yogurt!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on December 03, 2016, 07:51:19 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwp.production.patheos.com%2Fblogs%2Fexploringourmatrix%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F01%2FTrump-Satan.jpg&hash=2bc806023f74eb8e4c76727aa87508d52b090d70)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 03, 2016, 07:57:39 PM
He will ascend to the heavens
Above the stars of God

Welcome Year Zero! :punk:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on December 03, 2016, 08:47:47 PM
Goddamn allies

(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15135804_1808765612745802_6757136754329003368_n.jpg?oh=82f9b11a67a89b75dc54d7e39d738566&oe=58F21909)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2016, 08:50:03 PM
Yeah how dare people get publicity for their struggle
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2016, 08:59:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2016, 08:50:03 PM
Yeah how dare people get publicity for their struggle

I think it's directed at all the hippie blancos showing up to fight the man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on December 03, 2016, 09:05:38 PM
The more hippie blancos who show up--no matter what their angle--the better, though. Big crowds attract cameras. Plus, while 'Government Oppresses Indians' is a dog-bites-man story, a police APC running over a bunch of upper-middle-class should-be-in-college kids is something else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 03, 2016, 09:20:10 PM
I wish my cousin got water cannoned up there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2016, 10:00:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2016, 08:59:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2016, 08:50:03 PM
Yeah how dare people get publicity for their struggle

I think it's directed at all the hippie blancos showing up to fight the man.

I get it but generally you don't start turning on the other revolutionaries quite yet :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2016, 10:14:45 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 03, 2016, 09:05:38 PM
The more hippie blancos who show up--no matter what their angle--the better, though. Big crowds attract cameras. Plus, while 'Government Oppresses Indians' is a dog-bites-man story, a police APC running over a bunch of upper-middle-class should-be-in-college kids is something else.

True.  Nobody gives a shit about a dead Indian.  Now, a dead coed from Swarthmore...that matters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on December 03, 2016, 10:31:13 PM
But the dead coed doesn't care about Indians either.

The Native Americans are being used by the enviro-radicals. They don't care about native American lands, they just want to stop the pipeline, no matter where it runs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2016, 10:39:43 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 03, 2016, 10:31:13 PM
But the dead coed doesn't care about Indians either.

The Native Americans are being used by the enviro-radicals. They don't care about native American lands, they just want to stop the pipeline, no matter where it runs.

You sound like an Eli Roth movie.

I'm sure if came down to cynical help and no help at all, the Native Americans appreciate the extra help.  It's not like they have a that much of a win record when it comes to home games. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2016, 10:53:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 03, 2016, 10:31:13 PM
But the dead coed doesn't care about Indians either.

The Native Americans are being used by the enviro-radicals. They don't care about native American lands, they just want to stop the pipeline, no matter where it runs.

I am perfectly fine with being used to achieve aims I am already fighting for. I presume any normal sane person would be.

But lots of leftists love the Native Americans for their own sake. Talk about a harmless group to champion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 03, 2016, 10:55:41 PM
I noticed the crackdown stopped when the bad weather hit. All the cops were in the nearest Tim Horton's.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2016, 11:01:29 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 03, 2016, 10:55:41 PM
I noticed the crackdown stopped when the bad weather hit. All the cops were in the nearest Tim Horton's.

There is a Venn relationship between weather conditions, overtime and "Oh, this is bullshit."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on December 03, 2016, 11:01:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2016, 10:53:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 03, 2016, 10:31:13 PM
But the dead coed doesn't care about Indians either.

The Native Americans are being used by the enviro-radicals. They don't care about native American lands, they just want to stop the pipeline, no matter where it runs.

I am perfectly fine with being used to achieve aims I am already fighting for. I presume any normal sane person would be.

But lots of leftists love the Native Americans for their own sake. Talk about a harmless group to champion.

I don't doubt it, but I am simply pointing out that its not like this is about Native American lands at all for most of these people.

They are a convenient tool. If the pipeline ran somewhere else, they would find some other reason to oppose it, or some other Indians to claim it is stepping on them.

I am skeptical of the entire thing, to be honest. The claims of the Native Americans seem pretty thin. They want to protect their water? Huh? There is zero evidence that the pipeline has some kind of risk to water supplies - there are several OTHER pipelines that already run under the Missouri River for example.

I do think the company did the typical corporate token respect for the laws around consultation, and tried to just slide this through without really talking to the people involved, and greasing the political wheels. So I don't actually have much sympathy for them anyway.

But I find the bulk of the  opposition to it to be basically dishonest. Their real position is just luddite - no oil! Don't build any pipeline, that way the oil won't get pumped because OIL IS BAD! It's silly. A pipeline is much safer than the alternatives.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 03, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 03, 2016, 11:01:29 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 03, 2016, 10:55:41 PM
I noticed the crackdown stopped when the bad weather hit. All the cops were in the nearest Tim Horton's.

There is a Venn relationship between weather conditions, overtime and "Oh, this is bullshit."

The 27 Highway patrolmen Kasich sent went OH SHIT and never left their motel rooms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2016, 11:59:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2016, 10:53:10 PM
Talk about a harmless group to champion.

You haven't seen enough westerns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on December 04, 2016, 09:21:28 AM
Same person:
(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15193596_10157868677865311_3850221395059006724_n.jpg?oh=9efc9aa3aa5b6009f464acd8e05e72c2&oe=58BC10B9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 04, 2016, 09:24:10 AM
Every summer I dismantle a little bit of my whiteness, but it reasserts itself. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 04, 2016, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 03, 2016, 08:47:47 PM
Goddamn allies

(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15135804_1808765612745802_6757136754329003368_n.jpg?oh=82f9b11a67a89b75dc54d7e39d738566&oe=58F21909)

Interesting thing about Standing Rock, The Sioux there drove out the people living there in early 19th century with the help of the US government.  The area that the pipeline is being built on was never held by the Sioux.  It was held by the Arikara, a Pawnee people who the Sioux waged genocidal war against.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2016, 09:44:31 AM
Shut up, Sitting Meg.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on December 04, 2016, 10:03:54 AM
That's an interesting bit of trivia, but the modern Sioux can hardly be held responsible for the genocidal actions of their ancestors. The past is past, and all the matters is the future. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 04, 2016, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on December 04, 2016, 10:03:54 AM
That's an interesting bit of trivia, but the modern Sioux can hardly be held responsible for the genocidal actions of their ancestors. The past is past, and all the matters is the future. :)

Only white people can be judged by their ancestors crimes. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 04, 2016, 11:52:58 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 03, 2016, 11:01:30 PM
I don't doubt it, but I am simply pointing out that its not like this is about Native American lands at all for most of these people.

They are a convenient tool. If the pipeline ran somewhere else, they would find some other reason to oppose it, or some other Indians to claim it is stepping on them.

I am skeptical of the entire thing, to be honest. The claims of the Native Americans seem pretty thin. They want to protect their water? Huh? There is zero evidence that the pipeline has some kind of risk to water supplies - there are several OTHER pipelines that already run under the Missouri River for example.

I do think the company did the typical corporate token respect for the laws around consultation, and tried to just slide this through without really talking to the people involved, and greasing the political wheels. So I don't actually have much sympathy for them anyway.

But I find the bulk of the  opposition to it to be basically dishonest. Their real position is just luddite - no oil! Don't build any pipeline, that way the oil won't get pumped because OIL IS BAD! It's silly. A pipeline is much safer than the alternatives.

The Sioux leadership is absolutely Luddite.  Their leader's stated goal here is to prevent this and any other pipelines, under any conditions, as part of their "Leave it in the Ground" campaign regarding oil and gas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 04, 2016, 12:03:58 PM
I like being white.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2016, 12:05:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2016, 11:52:58 AM
The Sioux leadership is absolutely Luddite.  Their leader's stated goal here is to prevent this and any other pipelines, under any conditions, as part of their "Leave it in the Ground" campaign regarding oil and gas.

Supporting dependence on foreign oil?  How un-American of the Sioux.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 04, 2016, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 04, 2016, 12:05:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 04, 2016, 11:52:58 AM
The Sioux leadership is absolutely Luddite.  Their leader's stated goal here is to prevent this and any other pipelines, under any conditions, as part of their "Leave it in the Ground" campaign regarding oil and gas.

Supporting dependence on foreign oil?  How un-American of the Sioux.  :mad:

All I want to say is..... Oil pipelines are theworkofthedevil cool, I cycled past/along one today, you'd never know it was there.

I think the one time I had a conversation with a local about it, they thought there might be a water pipeline there. Even the few bits of infrastructure associated with it, like interceptor pits, are very innocuous, a small concrete pit 15x6x10ft surround by a chain-link fence, dog walkers pass all the time, never giving them a thought.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 04, 2016, 01:14:27 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15317871_10155261487606729_2060957494272725985_n.jpg?oh=2314aa2dbe4a21dcd6caac712a67c234&oe=58F4C6D9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on December 04, 2016, 01:24:56 PM
yeah, the protestors don't have a legitimate argument, except for their broad anger toward anything oil/perceivedly unfair towards the natives. but they've been mostly fine and non-violent. they've been protesting where I work a few times, and they seem like good folk. the locals' reaction and distrust/hate for them is standard rural people disliking foreigners, focusing on some isolated incidences of vandalism. will be interesting to see how many stay and for how long.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 04, 2016, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 04, 2016, 01:14:27 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15317871_10155261487606729_2060957494272725985_n.jpg?oh=2314aa2dbe4a21dcd6caac712a67c234&oe=58F4C6D9)

I Don't get it. Those are the same people who were there 10+ years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:27:16 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 04, 2016, 01:24:56 PM
yeah, the protestors don't have a legitimate argument, except for their broad anger toward anything oil/perceivedly unfair towards the natives. but they've been mostly fine and non-violent. they've been protesting where I work a few times, and they seem like good folk. the locals' reaction and distrust/hate for them is standard rural people disliking foreigners, focusing on some isolated incidences of vandalism. will be interesting to see how many stay and for how long.

Well the pipeline is now going to be rerouted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 05, 2016, 03:33:53 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p296x100/15285049_1653812588244738_2907717213547027001_n.jpg?oh=c26639a0b86740fe1146b59c6a126c53&oe=58C577CA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:47:11 AM
Good job. They picked someone who was punished for his lying...:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on December 05, 2016, 03:54:36 AM
You're mis-interpreting the meme.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 05, 2016, 04:07:50 AM
I'm pointing out that the meme is silly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 05, 2016, 04:10:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:27:16 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 04, 2016, 01:24:56 PM
yeah, the protestors don't have a legitimate argument, except for their broad anger toward anything oil/perceivedly unfair towards the natives. but they've been mostly fine and non-violent. they've been protesting where I work a few times, and they seem like good folk. the locals' reaction and distrust/hate for them is standard rural people disliking foreigners, focusing on some isolated incidences of vandalism. will be interesting to see how many stay and for how long.

Well the pipeline is now going to be rerouted.

CNN talks about the "Army Corp of Engineers." Has the spelling of corps changed when I wasn't looking? Or is Trump already privatizing parts of the military? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 05, 2016, 01:55:26 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cp624aUXEAAK5Lh.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on December 05, 2016, 02:19:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:27:16 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 04, 2016, 01:24:56 PM
yeah, the protestors don't have a legitimate argument, except for their broad anger toward anything oil/perceivedly unfair towards the natives. but they've been mostly fine and non-violent. they've been protesting where I work a few times, and they seem like good folk. the locals' reaction and distrust/hate for them is standard rural people disliking foreigners, focusing on some isolated incidences of vandalism. will be interesting to see how many stay and for how long.

Well the pipeline is now going to be rerouted.

yeah, it's pretty funny. I'm kinda hoping trump doesn't reverse the decision, because the outrage so far has been great
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 05, 2016, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 05, 2016, 04:10:49 AM
CNN talks about the "Army Corp of Engineers." Has the spelling of corps changed when I wasn't looking? Or is Trump already privatizing parts of the military? :unsure:

Lol Cannibal Corpse of Engineering
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...

He's a grass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 05, 2016, 03:05:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...

He's a grass.

Well that marks him out as one of the less offensive people on Twitter.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on December 05, 2016, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...

He's a grass.

What's that in American?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 05, 2016, 03:35:01 PM
Yeah, thanks guys.  That really cleared it up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on December 05, 2016, 03:35:51 PM
I too am confused and angered by your explanation
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:36:11 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 05, 2016, 03:05:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...

He's a grass.

Well that marks him out as one of the less offensive people on Twitter.  :P

Maybe. But the whole 'get these peasants away from me' angle isn't so lovely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 03:52:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...

He's a grass.

What is a grass in English slang?
The use of "grass" as British slang for a police informer dates back to the 1930s, and is apparently a short form of the slang term "grasshopper," meaning the same thing.

ok...   :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 05, 2016, 04:07:59 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 03:52:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...

He's a grass.

What is a grass in English slang?
The use of "grass" as British slang for a police informer dates back to the 1930s, and is apparently a short form of the slang term "grasshopper," meaning the same thing.

ok...   :huh:

It's also a verb, as in to grass someone up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 05, 2016, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 03:52:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...

He's a grass.

What is a grass in English slang?
The use of "grass" as British slang for a police informer dates back to the 1930s, and is apparently a short form of the slang term "grasshopper," meaning the same thing.

ok...   :huh:

This isn't some secret code, dear.

Callum is traveling on the Thameslink which is a train service. Callum bought a 1st class ticket*. Callum has tweeted to the train company about how people who didn't purchase 1st class train tickets are sitting in 1st class seats.

*well I'm assuming that. I guess Callum could just be standing near the 1st class seats. -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on December 05, 2016, 04:16:04 PM
Garb has gone madonna on us. Such a cliche :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on December 05, 2016, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 03:52:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...

He's a grass.

What is a grass in English slang?
The use of "grass" as British slang for a police informer dates back to the 1930s, and is apparently a short form of the slang term "grasshopper," meaning the same thing.

ok...   :huh:

This isn't some secret code, dear.

Callum is traveling on the Thameslink which is a train service. Callum bought a 1st class ticket*. Callum has tweeted to the train company about how people who didn't purchase 1st class train tickets are sitting in 1st class seats.

*well I'm assuming that. I guess Callum could just be standing near the 1st class seats. -_-

That all seems completely obvious.

I still don't get why Callum tweeting this is remotely interesting to anyone...are we supposed to be mad at Callum?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on December 05, 2016, 04:28:04 PM
tattling is OK if the reported behavior had negatively affected you, so maybe Callum of England was bothered by the working class around him.  :hmm:  we just don't know
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 05, 2016, 04:30:48 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2016, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 03:52:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 05, 2016, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 05, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
Don't get it.
You don't?

Well, me neither...

He's a grass.

What is a grass in English slang?
The use of "grass" as British slang for a police informer dates back to the 1930s, and is apparently a short form of the slang term "grasshopper," meaning the same thing.

ok...   :huh:

This isn't some secret code, dear.

Callum is traveling on the Thameslink which is a train service. Callum bought a 1st class ticket*. Callum has tweeted to the train company about how people who didn't purchase 1st class train tickets are sitting in 1st class seats.

*well I'm assuming that. I guess Callum could just be standing near the 1st class seats. -_-

That all seems completely obvious.

I still don't get why Callum tweeting this is remotely interesting to anyone...are we supposed to be mad at Callum?

I didn't think it would be incomprehensible.

And nah more like oh my what a douche.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on December 05, 2016, 04:31:30 PM
Ok, he is kind of a douche.

It just isn't very noteworthy douchiness.


It;s like someone telling a joke, and you get the joke, but you think maybe you don't because it isn't really funny at all, hence why did this person even bother telling it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 05, 2016, 06:36:35 PM
I feel bad for Callum.  He paid extra for that first class seat and freeloaders are getting the same privilege by paying less.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 06, 2016, 08:14:30 AM
I am sorry, but you can either be mad at the expensive train ticket prices, or be ok with people cheating with their train tickets. The two together does not work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 06, 2016, 08:25:48 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 06, 2016, 08:14:30 AM
I am sorry, but you can either be mad at the expensive train ticket prices, or be ok with people cheating with their train tickets. The two together does not work.

:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 06, 2016, 09:20:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2016, 04:12:57 PM
This isn't some secret code, dear.

Callum is traveling on the Thameslink which is a train service. Callum bought a 1st class ticket*. Callum has tweeted to the train company about how people who didn't purchase 1st class train tickets are sitting in 1st class seats.

*well I'm assuming that. I guess Callum could just be standing near the 1st class seats. -_-
Yes, but I thought there would be some secret meaning there.  A rich person complaining poor people are invading his private party is not unheard of, in face, it's quite frequent, just as tv/movie stars doing their divas about 1st class plane tickets that should be paid by the government or complaining their dog isn't allowed to sit in 1st class beside them.

I just thought there would be something more profound, more unique to that tweet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on December 06, 2016, 09:43:05 AM
agree, garbon please only post itt profound, unique images
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 06, 2016, 10:41:21 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 06, 2016, 09:43:05 AM
agree, garbon please only post itt profound, unique images

Nah, I'm cool.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2016, 02:32:39 PM
It was bound to happen. My middle sister unironically shared a Milo post. :bleeding:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2016, 02:36:51 PM
Also, this:

http://bignuggetnews.com/blm-activist-demanding-white-reps/
Quote#BLM Activist Are Demanding That 'White People' Pay This Insane Monthly Fee To Blacksby Political Ears Editorial Staff/ December 5, 2016/ General News, Liberal Nonsence/ 1 Comment
If you're stupid enough to buy into what these guys are selling then -you've failed as an American. The reparations they are demanding from 'white people' perhaps, is the only way to supplement their lifestyle despite their lack of employment. This is the perfect example of what liberalism looks like. Check it out:


Full article:
http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/05/black-activists-launch-monthly-fee-system-for-whites-to-pay-blacks/

QuoteBlack Activists Launch Monthly Fee System For Whites To Pay Blacks

Liberal black activists have launched a monthly "subscription box" designed for white people "to not only financially support Black femme freedom fighters, but also complete measurable tasks in the fight against white supremacy."

The subscription service is called Safety Pin Box and was launched last week. Wearing a safety pin has recently become a symbol within the liberal community for one to show solidarity with minorities.

The group is headed by Leslie Mac and Marissa Jenae Johnson. Johnson is one of the Black Lives Matter protesters who interrupted Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders during a speech in Seattle last year.

There are four different types of subscriptions offered by the group. The "e-ally box" is $25 a month and is "an electronic form of solidarity." It comes with "exclusive 'calls to action' when urgent ally services are needed in times of crisis." Ally is a term used by Black Lives Matter activists to describe white comrades.

There is then the "pin pals box" which is a box shared by two white people for $100 total. Lucky subscribers get a "physical 'safety pin' box shipped to one address with guided two-person tasks for the month."

There is then the "premiere" box subscription which costs $100 a month. This includes a "physical 'safety pin' box shipped to you with guided ally tasks for the month. Tasks will vary in scope from individual to group assignments, and task categories include data collection, personal development, influencing your networks, and showing radical compassion."

Safety Pin Box did not respond immediately to an inquiry about the amount of subscribers they have. Another option they offer besides subscription is the one-time "Revenge Box" which costs $50. The description says: "Send this box to a Trump supporter, bigot, or white supremacist of our choice."

The recipient of one of these boxes gets "a link to a website that features highlights of the current movement for Black lives and stories of Black excellence."

This is not the first online effort seeking donations from guilty white people. A black woman launched a reparations website in August.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2016, 02:40:48 PM
Reply from her daughter:

QuoteThat is ridiculous! I don't owe anyone money just because of skin color

From her son in law:

QuoteLol no
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 06, 2016, 02:47:17 PM
Huh. Even that article indicates it is voluntary.

Not that she actually went to the website to check it out for herself or anything.

I do like the fact that it seems one would only support a cause of out of guilt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2016, 02:36:51 PM

QuoteBlack Activists Launch Monthly Fee System For Whites To Pay Blacks


Just made a donation in derspiess's and 11B's names
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 06, 2016, 03:58:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2016, 02:36:51 PM

QuoteBlack Activists Launch Monthly Fee System For Whites To Pay Blacks


Just made a donation in derspiess's and 11B's names

Your a daisy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 06, 2016, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2016, 02:36:51 PM

QuoteBlack Activists Launch Monthly Fee System For Whites To Pay Blacks


Just made a donation in derspiess's and 11B's names

Guess I'm off the hook, then.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 06, 2016, 04:18:47 PM
I hope you win 'Ally of the Year' Spicey.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 06, 2016, 05:03:31 PM
It's a little overdue but I'd take it.  I was a pioneer in the movement of young white kids listening to rap in the early 80s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 05:06:00 PM
You being a Vanilla Ice fan is a complete shocker.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 06, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 05:06:00 PM
You being a Vanilla Ice fan is a complete shocker.

How could you resist being a fan of Vanilla Ice? : :wub:

(https://cbs1037litefm.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/vanillaice_001.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 06, 2016, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 05:06:00 PM
You being a Vanilla Ice fan is a complete shocker.

Black Irish, please.  I was listening to Sugar Hill Gang before I was 8.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 06, 2016, 05:26:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 06, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 05:06:00 PM
You being a Vanilla Ice fan is a complete shocker.

How could you resist being a fan of Vanilla Ice? : :wub:

La Croix likes to watch him fix houses.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 06, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 06, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 05:06:00 PM
You being a Vanilla Ice fan is a complete shocker.

How could you resist being a fan of Vanilla Ice? : :wub:

(https://cbs1037litefm.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/vanillaice_001.jpg)

More proof that cultural appropriation is genocide!  :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 06, 2016, 05:33:41 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 06, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 06, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 05:06:00 PM
You being a Vanilla Ice fan is a complete shocker.

How could you resist being a fan of Vanilla Ice? : :wub:

(https://cbs1037litefm.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/vanillaice_001.jpg)

More proof that cultural appropriation is genocide!  :tinfoil:

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 06, 2016, 05:13:15 PM
Black Irish, please.  I was listening to Sugar Hill Gang before I was 8.

LIES

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg246%2Fsey115%2Ftherightstuff_zpsc9a62c1b.gif&hash=3e885cf659459000d00b6af5a1149ee54d7bcd79)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 06, 2016, 08:55:43 PM
Rap is crap
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 06, 2016, 09:58:21 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 06, 2016, 08:55:43 PM
Rap is crap

It is now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 06, 2016, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 06, 2016, 09:58:21 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 06, 2016, 08:55:43 PM
Rap is crap

It is now.

It was then, derwigger.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 06, 2016, 10:05:03 PM
LOVE YOUR WHITE RACE. LISTEN TO WARRANT.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 10:05:19 PM
lol, Mix Master DJ Darkie Fresh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 06, 2016, 10:06:13 PM
LL Cool Spicy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 10:07:43 PM
derLenchMob
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 06, 2016, 10:10:21 PM
Fab Five derSpicy.

I think I've run out of rap names.

Next up: Bell Biv derSpicy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 06, 2016, 10:10:59 PM
Bubba Spiess
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 06, 2016, 10:18:55 PM
Hanson with special guest, Spicy.

N'Spicy

WAIT A MINUTE, HANSON ISNT RAP
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2016, 10:23:00 PM
derCaptain and Tennille SKITTLES WILL KEEP US TOGETHER

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 07, 2016, 09:58:17 AM
Okay, which one of you is this?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.2900668.1481051693%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Farticle_1200%2Ftnfire7n-1-web.jpg&hash=67e0636d4a20dd80dcce0488bf5e617707efddde)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on December 07, 2016, 10:03:11 AM
Smarmy liberal elitists are always so scruffy looking.

Kind of like how Trump supporters always look.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 07, 2016, 10:06:10 AM
QuoteWell, it was Gatlinburg in mid-July And I just hit town and my throat was dry, I thought I'd stop and have myself a brew.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 07, 2016, 10:36:19 AM
He does sort of look the like kind of person who would have been named after a kerosene stove.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 07, 2016, 10:59:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 07, 2016, 09:58:17 AM
Okay, which one of you is this?

Not me. I love consumerism and Tennessee culture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on December 08, 2016, 04:32:46 PM
I saw on Facebook the Brevard County Sheriff's Facebook feature "Wheel of Fugitives" made it to the the Daily Show. (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/kt8x97/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-the-top-trending-offenders)  After watching Trevor Noah for a few minutes I've gained a new found appreciation for why there's so much hatred of fake news.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 08, 2016, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on December 08, 2016, 04:32:46 PM
I saw on Facebook the Brevard County Sheriff's Facebook feature "Wheel of Fugitives" made it to the the Daily Show. (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/kt8x97/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-the-top-trending-offenders)  After watching Trevor Noah for a few minutes I've gained a new found appreciation for why there's so much hatred of fake news.



Blacks, amirite?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 08, 2016, 07:45:26 PM
Coleman the comic book guy lost his job.

WORST POST EVER
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 08, 2016, 07:52:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 07, 2016, 10:59:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 07, 2016, 09:58:17 AM
Okay, which one of you is this?

Not me. I love consumerism and Tennessee culture.

It's an obvious fiction.  Everybody knows Gatlinburg is Mello Yello territory.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 08, 2016, 07:54:03 PM
I miss Mr. Pibb.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 08, 2016, 07:56:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 08, 2016, 07:52:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 07, 2016, 10:59:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 07, 2016, 09:58:17 AM
Okay, which one of you is this?

Not me. I love consumerism and Tennessee culture.

It's an obvious fiction.  Everybody knows Gatlinburg is Mello Yello territory.

Do they still make that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 08, 2016, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 08, 2016, 07:56:22 PM
Do they still make that?

Yup.  Coca Cola Company will never cede a flavor to Pepsi, ever. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 08, 2016, 08:03:05 PM
They don't do a very good job of keeping it in stores.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 08, 2016, 08:04:27 PM
Don't question the free market.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2016, 03:31:21 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15390685_1199798013402407_2778996054928624983_n.png?oh=3ea1ef5737da56acc16448ac10b24068&oe=58F7C3AC)

Posted by someone who believes "Guns don't kill people - people kill people", and "Gun control doesn't work, because if criminals want guns they'll find ways."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 09, 2016, 03:37:00 PM
Ah yes, Fast and Feverous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 09, 2016, 03:44:15 PM
Ok I will bite. How do they work out that Obama is arming drug cartels?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2016, 03:45:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 09, 2016, 03:44:15 PM
Ok I will bite. How do they work out that Obama is arming drug cartels?

I'm guessing this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 09, 2016, 03:46:51 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 09, 2016, 03:45:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 09, 2016, 03:44:15 PM
Ok I will bite. How do they work out that Obama is arming drug cartels?

I'm guessing this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Probably, the link to Obama is hard to see though. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 09, 2016, 03:49:16 PM
So it was an attempt to arrest drug lords that originated in 2006?

I don't get these people sometimes.

But this is some kind of standard stuff. Every single person killed by our enemies seems to directly blamed on Obama or Clinton. Never our enemies. Clever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 09, 2016, 05:21:17 PM
That kind of attirude isn't going to Make America Great Again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on December 09, 2016, 11:15:35 PM
Portland everyone, where everything's backwards and nothing makes sense

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.mentalfloss.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Farticle_640x430%2Fpublic%2Fe-trike_deployed.png&hash=09649f5f9c1e2113b90ef82cb9f72dc1d490dba0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 11, 2016, 01:49:55 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13606756_678949788944511_2923040827322758154_n.jpg?oh=8f7d84c86e98086303ecae43f4507dcb&oe=58B6FDEB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2016, 11:34:01 AM
 :lol:

I would be so lucky. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 12, 2016, 08:22:29 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15403615_1505982156083972_7903842422170019709_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=eb5e4fe4bcd3cc5260767a8697127212&oe=58BD3385)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2016, 02:01:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15492110_1200846203344878_5941479189498170407_n.jpg?oh=15660d4cfc76de50f3d3dec680342792&oe=58FB45B5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2016, 01:30:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW85ZcswiqM&t=150s

QuoteHilarious Trump Christmas Parody "It's The Most Wonderful Time in 8 Years" - Dana Kamide

Lyrics: It's The Most Wonderful Time in 8 Years

It's the most wonderful time in 8 years
Yet some kids are protesting
While Trump fans investing their time with good cheer
Sing "It's the most wonderful time in 8 years"

It's the hap-happiest voting season of all
With each staff member Trump picks, Democrats up to their old tricks ...Just trashing them all
but It's the hap- happiest election season of all

There'll be one party hosting All three branches toasting
but how low now will the press go
They'll spin misguided stories Trying to steal Trump's glory
from a playbook written, long long ago

It's the most wonderful time in 8 years
They'll be much more enjoyment a lot less unemployment
Cause Trump will be near
It's the most wonderful time in 8 years (go up)

Hillary's party's not hosing they're no longer toasting,
Beyonce, Kanye, Cop Killers, Racists and the Muslim Brotherhood
They ignored true stories of Hillary who wasn't sorry
for her crimes now and long ago

Now It's the most wonderful time in 8 Years
We'll deport all the criminals, Taxes will be minimal
Bad trade deals disappear
It's the most wonderful time
yes the most wonderful time
Oh the most wonderful time... in 8 years!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 13, 2016, 01:54:07 PM
Funny they should bring up Kanye...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 13, 2016, 03:58:52 PM
It's a white Christmas miracle!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2016, 04:11:35 PM
Also, everyone that posts "funny" comments or supposed witticisms with Minions on them - die in a fucking fire.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 13, 2016, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 13, 2016, 04:11:35 PM
Also, everyone that posts "funny" comments or supposed witticisms with Minions on them - die in a fucking fire.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemions.com%2Fwp-content%2Fthemes%2Fwumblr%2Fthemify%2Fimg.php%3Fsrc%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmemions.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F07%2FMinion-Quotes-I-need-a-time-out.jpg%26amp%3Bw%3D590%26amp%3Bh%3D%26amp%3Bq%3D70&hash=60bc2930996b3de35305a0706e0ecf202569b4c3)

Had to do it...  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Scipio on December 13, 2016, 05:15:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 22, 2016, 12:52:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2016, 12:50:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 22, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
It's trying to manipulate someone into questioning their own memory or perception of what is going on.

Does it really work?  Do you need Jedi mind powers or something to pull it off?

Yeah it does. It is pretty easy actually. My ex used to do it.
Mine, too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 13, 2016, 08:24:25 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpWPZ8JS.jpg&hash=c71a18e1f1e3780377e99105d3e71e8af2d9ea7a)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 14, 2016, 01:52:53 AM
P-51: great for the uninary tract
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 14, 2016, 10:06:53 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzonbS5XgAAp-Nc.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 14, 2016, 09:17:37 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15541597_1328231690572236_8675039586552813438_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=56efb9ff1602e14e9b101c0fb76f1a1b&oe=58F2AA81)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 14, 2016, 09:19:43 PM
Bongs and dildos are our best weapon against ISIS.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 14, 2016, 09:22:14 PM
Drop Lena Dunham on ISIS. It'll be like a planet buster in that Alpha Centuari game.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 14, 2016, 09:23:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 14, 2016, 09:19:43 PM
Bongs and dildos are our best weapon against ISIS.
:yes: They're both weapons and morale boosters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 15, 2016, 01:19:21 AM
From my under-insured sister (she took out a loan for a surgery she needed ... a loan she'll probably default on):

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14955765_1182736968486789_8517212940878852672_n.png?oh=2571470da313325939269297de189d8e&oe=58B87DF8)

Also:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14063831_1694503650870732_6459843432834796387_n.png?oh=d42f378705f57a9c35773c30398b07e2&oe=58F91B20)
#AllLivesMatter
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 15, 2016, 07:34:53 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 14, 2016, 09:17:37 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15541597_1328231690572236_8675039586552813438_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=56efb9ff1602e14e9b101c0fb76f1a1b&oe=58F2AA81)

:lol:

The South thought the same thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 15, 2016, 08:41:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 15, 2016, 01:19:21 AM

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14063831_1694503650870732_6459843432834796387_n.png?oh=d42f378705f57a9c35773c30398b07e2&oe=58F91B20)
#AllLivesMatter

This one is much better than her admittedly low average. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 15, 2016, 08:52:15 AM
Yeah, nothing objectionable about that statement, though perhaps white people shouldn't be parroting it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 15, 2016, 08:57:29 AM
Though it's a bit ironic of a statement for Republicans, who find more affinity for white Russians than black Americans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 15, 2016, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 15, 2016, 08:57:29 AM
Though it's a bit ironic of a statement for Republicans, who find more affinity for white Russians than black Americans.

I prefer Black Russian
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 15, 2016, 10:23:48 AM
Obamacare Clearwater?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 15, 2016, 10:33:37 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 15, 2016, 08:41:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 15, 2016, 01:19:21 AM

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14063831_1694503650870732_6459843432834796387_n.png?oh=d42f378705f57a9c35773c30398b07e2&oe=58F91B20)
#AllLivesMatter

This one is much better than her admittedly low average. :)

It would carry more weight if blacks were allowed to forget the fact they are black.  But they have not, so they do not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 15, 2016, 10:33:49 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 15, 2016, 01:19:21 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14063831_1694503650870732_6459843432834796387_n.png?oh=d42f378705f57a9c35773c30398b07e2&oe=58F91B20)

Oh sure but when Obama says it they call him a terrorist Socialist Muslim :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 16, 2016, 03:39:13 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/15036250_1172935839421958_2706838545847863109_n.jpg?oh=bff517945acb34873c79aa4c46e899bf&oe=58EDE88C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 16, 2016, 03:49:51 PM
Free trade and capitalism were now invented by progressive radical liberals. Amazing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on December 16, 2016, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2016, 03:49:51 PM
Free trade and capitalism were now invented by progressive radical liberals. Amazing.

Guys like Adam Smith were the progressive liberals of their day. Not sure if radical could accurately apply.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 16, 2016, 04:21:07 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 16, 2016, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2016, 03:49:51 PM
Free trade and capitalism were now invented by progressive radical liberals. Amazing.

Guys like Adam Smith were the progressive liberals of their day. Not sure if radical could accurately apply.

Thanks? I am concerned that now free trade is considered a left wing idea, which it most certainly is not.

Why are you bringing up this point? I am well aware of 18th century liberalism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 16, 2016, 07:31:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 16, 2016, 03:39:13 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/15036250_1172935839421958_2706838545847863109_n.jpg?oh=bff517945acb34873c79aa4c46e899bf&oe=58EDE88C)

I like the fact that they don't actually deny that they are a racist or xenophobic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 16, 2016, 09:01:19 PM
 :lol:  Oh boy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on December 16, 2016, 09:23:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2016, 04:21:07 PM

Thanks? I am concerned that now free trade is considered a left wing idea, which it most certainly is not.

Why are you bringing up this point? I am well aware of 18th century liberalism.

My first response is that I'm a languishite, and thus a pedantic asshole by nature, especially regarding history topics. :(

My second response is that free trade seems to have little support these days, so the right assigns the position to the left, and the left assigns it to the right. Partisan stupidity triumphs over all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 17, 2016, 03:32:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2016, 04:21:07 PM
I am well aware of 18th century liberalism.

What are your thoughts on Anders Chydenius? :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 17, 2016, 02:16:32 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/11046285_1084607431551890_8600536767414980259_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=eb0905cfb591eaf6c31f123f2486265b&oe=58FC78FE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 17, 2016, 03:08:42 PM
http://prntly.com/2016/12/15/breaking-sheriff-joes-last-stand-obama-birth-certificate-bombshell-exposed-on-live-tv/

QuoteBREAKING: Sheriff Joe's last stand: Obama Birth Certificate BOMBSHELL exposed on live TV

Share this story the media does not want you reading

Sheriff Joe may be down, but he's not out, and he's ending 2016 with a Barack Obama birth Certification explosion.

It could be over.

Because now there's a news conference scheduled on Thursday about an official law enforcement investigation into the validity of the document he presented to the nation in a press conference at the White House.

Investigations already were done, lawsuits were filed, the Supreme Court was lobbied but skeptics of Obama's constitutional eligibility repeatedly were stymied by federal judges and officials, who said, effectively, "There will be no discussion about this."

The issue is that the U.S. Constitution requires the president to be a "natural-born citizen" but does not define the term. Scholarly works cited by the Founders defined it as a citizen at birth, born in the country to two citizens of the country, or merely the offspring of two citizens of the country.

The birth certificate Obama displayed on the White House website as "proof positive" of his eligibility states he was born in Hawaii to an American mother and a Kenyan father.

Some immediately pointed out alleged anomalies, questioning its validity, while others argued it also could prove his ineligibility because his father was not a citizen. Some of the lawsuits argued Obama was a dual citizen at birth through his father, contending the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born citizens.

Eventually, just as the No. 1 bestseller "Where's The Birth Certificate?" was combining with a challenge from billionaire businessman Donald Trump to force Obama's hand, Obama held a White House news conference to release a copy of his birth certificate.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2016/12/final-showdown-sheriff-joe-slaps-obama-with-new-birth-certificate-bombshell/#fCDBJKbmi6KGUhXd.99

https://www.facebook.com/FOX10Phoenix/videos/1210716885643523/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 17, 2016, 04:11:52 PM
Wow, this changes everything!  Obama will be out of office by February!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 18, 2016, 01:00:22 AM
I don't get this. You are either a citizen at birth or you are naturalized. Where is this 'you cannot be a citizen unless both of your parents are citizens' coming from? Do they mean the Athenian Constitution or the American one?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 18, 2016, 01:14:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 18, 2016, 01:00:22 AM
I don't get this. You are either a citizen at birth or you are naturalized. Where is this 'you cannot be a citizen unless both of your parents are citizens' coming from? Do they mean the Athenian Constitution or the American one?

Funnily enough, it would also mean that the kids of my sister who posted this wouldn't be citizens, as she never naturalized.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 18, 2016, 09:14:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 18, 2016, 01:14:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 18, 2016, 01:00:22 AM
I don't get this. You are either a citizen at birth or you are naturalized. Where is this 'you cannot be a citizen unless both of your parents are citizens' coming from? Do they mean the Athenian Constitution or the American one?

Funnily enough, it would also mean that the kids of my sister who posted this wouldn't be citizens, as she never naturalized.

It would probably disenfranchise half the country.  Before 1919 immigrant women rarely naturalized.  If you had one ancestor who didn't naturalize before they had children it would cause you not to be a citizen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 19, 2016, 12:52:38 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15542425_10209733709272859_428746169887277806_n.jpg?oh=83a5a72d9ce227a104b1a5e7ff0c7600&oe=58E9EA56)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 19, 2016, 12:55:52 PM
Which voting machines were suspected of fraud? How does a private citizen own them? I mean he certainly does not own smartmatic. And why does this invalidate the intelligence provided by the FBI and CIA?

Also 25 million dollars is not just a ton of money.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 19, 2016, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 19, 2016, 12:55:52 PM
Which voting machines were suspected of fraud?

The ones owned by (((George Soros)))). Duh.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 19, 2016, 01:13:14 PM
Syt if that's from your sister you got to tell her that it's very bad form for Krauty types to be spreading Jewish banker conspiracy theories.   People might get the wrong idea. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 19, 2016, 01:22:46 PM
I've tried to educate them on fact checking their stuff before they post it, but I've ultimately given up on that. I bet you $50 that she's not even aware of his being Jewish or of Hungarian origin. It's something anti-Hillary/pro-Trump, that's why she posted it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on December 19, 2016, 07:00:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 19, 2016, 12:55:52 PM
Which voting machines were suspected of fraud? How does a private citizen own them? I mean he certainly does not own smartmatic. And why does this invalidate the intelligence provided by the FBI and CIA?

Also 25 million dollars is not just a ton of money.

It could be...

For $10,000,000...

QuoteEach bill (regardless of value) weighs about 1 gram. there are 454 grams in a pound.
So if they were all ones it would weigh 10,000,000 /454 about 22,026.4 pounds.
In fives it would be 2,000,000/454 or 4405.3 pounds.
in tens it would be abour 2202.6 lbs
in 20s it would be about 1101.3

So in $20's, $25 million would be a bit over a ton.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 19, 2016, 07:21:29 PM
George Soros is a newfangled Elder of Zion.  He uses electronic funds transfers not wads of cash.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 19, 2016, 10:17:16 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15621646_10155004776886037_2561275483576120187_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=113776068d37548c895a26862bfee72f&oe=58EB5F55)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 19, 2016, 10:24:23 PM
Looks like one of my recent turds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 19, 2016, 11:10:20 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 19, 2016, 10:24:23 PM
Looks like one of my recent turds.

Looks like one of your boots, too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 20, 2016, 02:41:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15492311_1446950325316735_1529127486607096486_n.jpg?oh=1087ee3f1376a145482d3b8c18fe6c10&oe=58F55EA9)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15541981_1335746066487465_7829769956121398235_n.jpg?oh=7961d73d90a69969078651de540c03df&oe=58B23791)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 20, 2016, 04:15:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 19, 2016, 12:55:52 PM
Which voting machines were suspected of fraud? How does a private citizen own them? I mean he certainly does not own smartmatic. And why does this invalidate the intelligence provided by the FBI and CIA?

Also 25 million dollars is not just a ton of money.

Citing facts. An age-old Jewish trick
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 20, 2016, 08:08:33 AM
Man right wing people hate safe spaces.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 20, 2016, 09:52:25 AM
You have no idea :angry: :ultra:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 20, 2016, 09:54:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 20, 2016, 08:08:33 AM
Man right wing people hate safe spaces.

False, the Lebensraum is also a safe space.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 20, 2016, 10:33:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 20, 2016, 08:08:33 AM
Man right wing people hate safe spaces.

On the contrary they want the whole country to be a safe space - expel all Muslims, immigrants, etc.  b/c who knows maybe one of them will be bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 20, 2016, 02:26:36 PM
What is this "Nørskk" bullshit?

And no, I don't mean the weakass MRA piffle, but "Nørskk"? What is that supposed to be?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 20, 2016, 03:11:10 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 20, 2016, 02:26:36 PM
What is this "Nørskk" bullshit?

And no, I don't mean the weakass MRA piffle, but "Nørskk"? What is that supposed to be?

https://norskk.com/#train-section
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 20, 2016, 03:13:31 PM
So a gay thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 20, 2016, 03:15:23 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/15219991_1826073850983375_1141610574424454082_n.jpg?oh=c2608263ff9980ef4d004b6aa27f16df&oe=58E64C7D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 20, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 20, 2016, 03:11:10 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 20, 2016, 02:26:36 PM
What is this "Nørskk" bullshit?

And no, I don't mean the weakass MRA piffle, but "Nørskk"? What is that supposed to be?

https://norskk.com/#train-section

"Care for your beard and body! All manly and not girly like, by the way you should buy our special viking lipbalm."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 20, 2016, 03:22:45 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 20, 2016, 03:15:23 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/15219991_1826073850983375_1141610574424454082_n.jpg?oh=c2608263ff9980ef4d004b6aa27f16df&oe=58E64C7D)

Does this mean you do think it's necessary, Syt?  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 20, 2016, 03:26:03 PM
 :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 20, 2016, 03:45:50 PM
OMG HES ONE OF THEM NOW
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 20, 2016, 06:15:04 PM

Pfft, been done.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cherworld.com%2Fnew%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2Fcherturn.png&hash=5c9912dcdd248ceb22b4fa2c9c7c8788ccc05559)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 20, 2016, 07:31:03 PM
If I could turn back time, to before November at least.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on December 21, 2016, 08:58:12 AM
Hopefully we can build more dreadnought battleships.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 21, 2016, 09:33:24 AM
Trump should bring back all four of the Iowa's. Just 'cause.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 21, 2016, 12:06:56 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 21, 2016, 09:33:24 AM
Trump should bring back all four of the Iowa's. Just 'cause.

Why, he'd just turn them into hotel casinos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 22, 2016, 09:04:38 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 21, 2016, 12:06:56 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 21, 2016, 09:33:24 AM
Trump should bring back all four of the Iowa's. Just 'cause.

Why, he'd just turn them into hotel casinos.

Good way to kill lots of Chinese 5th column.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 22, 2016, 03:54:54 PM
Circulated via email from a co-worker, but the same general idea



'Twas The Night Before Christmas, Legal Version

Author Unknown 
   
Whereas, on or about the night prior to Christmas, there did occur at a certain 
improved piece of real property (hereinafter "the House") a general lack of 
stirring by all creatures therein, including, but not limited to a mouse. 
   
A variety of foot apparel, e.g. stocking, socks, etc., had been affixed by and 
around the chimney in said House in the hope and/or belief that St. Nick a/k/a/ 
St. Nicholas a/k/a/ Santa Claus (hereinafter "Claus") would arrive at sometime 
thereafter. 
   
The minor residents, i.e. the children, of the aforementioned House, were 
located in their individual beds and were engaged in nocturnal hallucinations, 
i.e. dreams, wherein vision of confectionery treats, including, but not limited 
to, candies, nuts and/or sugar plums, did dance, cavort and otherwise appear in 
said dreams. 
   
Whereupon the party of the first part (sometimes hereinafter referred to as 
"I"), being the joint-owner in fee simple of the House with the parts of the 
second part (hereinafter "Mamma"), and said Mamma had retired for a sustained 
period of sleep. (At such time, the parties were clad in various forms of 
headgear, e.g. kerchief and cap.) 
   
Suddenly, and without prior notice or warning, there did occur upon the 
unimproved real property adjacent and appurtent to said House, i.e. the lawn, a 
certain disruption of unknown nature, cause and/or circumstance. The party of 
the first part did immediately rush to a window in the House to investigate the 
cause of such disturbance. 
   
At that time, the party of the first part did observe, with some degree of 
wonder and/or disbelief, a miniature sleigh (hereinafter the "Vehicle") being 
pulled and/or drawn very rapidly through the air by approximately eight (8) 
reindeer. The driver of the Vehicle appeared to be and in fact was, the 
previously referenced Claus. 
   
Said Claus was providing specific direction, instruction and guidance to the 
approximately eight (8) reindeer and specifically identified the animal 
co-conspirators by name: Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donder 
and Blitzen (hereinafter the "Deer"). (Upon information and belief, it is 
further asserted that an additional co-conspirator named Rudolph may have been 
involved.) 
   
The party of the first part witnessed Claus, the Vehicle and the Deer 
intentionally and willfully trespass upon the roofs of several residences 
located adjacent to and in the vicinity of the House, and noted that the Vehicle 
was heavily laden with packages, toys and other items of unknown origin or 
nature. Suddenly, without prior invitation or permission, either express or 
implied, the Vehicle arrived at the House, and Claus entered said House via the 
chimney. 
   
Said Claus was clad in a red fur suit, which was partially covered with residue 
from the chimney, and he carried a large sack containing a portion of the 
aforementioned packages, toys, and other unknown items. He was smoking what 
appeared to be tobacco in a small pipe in blatant violation of local ordinances 
and health regulations. 
   
Claus did not speak, but immediately began to fill the stocking of the minor 
children, which hung adjacent to the chimney, with toys and other small gifts. 
(Said items did not, however, constitute "gifts" to said minor pursuant to the 
applicable provisions of the U.S. Tax Code.) Upon completion of such task, Claus 
touched the side of his nose and flew, rose and/or ascended up the chimney of 
the House to the roof where the Vehicle and Deer waited and/or served as 
"lookouts." Claus immediately departed for an unknown destination. 
   
However, prior to the departure of the Vehicle, Deer and Claus from said House, 
the party of the first part did hear Claus state and/or exclaim: "Merry 
Christmas to all and to all a good night!" Or words to that effect. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 27, 2016, 05:02:09 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15780755_1638718476432645_4978476502858857863_n.jpg?oh=8035c7811917682706e5005478cc9e64&oe=58DF6A9E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 27, 2016, 05:03:08 PM
I'm surprised any American is still going to work. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on December 27, 2016, 05:08:14 PM
How do I get on that gravy train?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on December 27, 2016, 05:11:27 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 27, 2016, 05:03:08 PM
I'm surprised any American is still going to work. :P

I just show up to surf languish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 27, 2016, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on December 27, 2016, 05:08:14 PM
How do I get on that gravy train?  :hmm:

You need to talk to my sister. The one who has relied a fair share on welfare and charity herself. To the point, as my other sister explained, that they were referred from one church charity to another because she and her family kept draining resources.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 27, 2016, 05:21:07 PM
Production workers don't live in condos.  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on December 27, 2016, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 27, 2016, 05:20:21 PM
You need to talk to my sister. The one who has relied a fair share on welfare and charity herself. To the point, as my other sister explained, that they were referred from one church charity to another because she and her family kept draining resources.

I suppose it is a consistent message, at least.  She despises other welfare recipients for draining resources that could go to her.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 27, 2016, 07:11:22 PM
He visits his doctor regularly? Medicaid must be vastly better than my insurance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 27, 2016, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 27, 2016, 07:11:22 PM
He visits his doctor regularly? Medicaid must be vastly better than my insurance.

Stage II diabetus from too many food stamp ice cream bars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 27, 2016, 08:15:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 27, 2016, 07:11:22 PM
He visits his doctor regularly? Medicaid must be vastly better than my insurance.

IR is a pretty damn good insurance. Know a guy on it. They pay for everything, only time Medicaid balks is when a new expensive medication is proscribed. Get surgery? No problem.

May be different in other states however. Ohio's is a pretty sweet deal.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 28, 2016, 11:03:22 AM
Clearly, welfare is too generous in the US.  :rolleyes:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15672688_1287775204594370_3680877307057575905_n.jpg?oh=5f78076b2d48f874699ec05d4ef30cc6&oe=58E8420A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 28, 2016, 11:23:14 AM
That reminds me of my political conversations with my sister.  I will constantly be cornered with statements I have to agree with.  Statements that are neither here nor there and completely irrelevant, but the connotation is that once I agree with them I concede a major point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 28, 2016, 11:56:34 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 28, 2016, 11:23:14 AM
That reminds me of my political conversations with my sister.  I will constantly be cornered with statements I have to agree with.  Statements that are neither here nor there and completely irrelevant, but the connotation is that once I agree with them I concede a major point.

So that's where your posting style came from.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 28, 2016, 01:15:56 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 28, 2016, 11:03:22 AM
Clearly, welfare is too generous in the US.  :rolleyes:

WTF  :lol:  See, that's what a generation of indoctrination accomplished.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 28, 2016, 02:14:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 28, 2016, 11:03:22 AM
Clearly, welfare is too generous in the US.  :rolleyes:

Well if they want to cancel all welfare they are welcome to do so. Nobody can stop them now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 28, 2016, 05:12:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 28, 2016, 02:14:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 28, 2016, 11:03:22 AM
Clearly, welfare is too generous in the US.  :rolleyes:

Well if they want to cancel all welfare they are welcome to do so. Nobody can stop them now.

Yes, because there's so much of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 29, 2016, 07:16:46 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15726315_1211056088984054_4333416578784178510_n.jpg?oh=4ec7c5c4e68cd5597540933119c1e12f&oe=58DCD8D7)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15590436_1202223146531919_5975836564182349406_n.jpg?oh=44d1fc0924c23d1caf66075111f5003b&oe=58DA7E84)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 29, 2016, 08:57:10 AM
Trump voters really shouldn't be throwing around the word "Traitor" right now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 29, 2016, 09:17:53 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 29, 2016, 08:57:10 AM
Trump voters really shouldn't be throwing around the word "Traitor" right now.

I'll give Hitler one thing over Trump, he fought in the war, unlike Trump who avoided America's war in Vietnam.

Then again, Hitler actually fought for a foreign country in WW1 rather than his own, so perhaps he and Trump aren't as dissimilar as I thought.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 29, 2016, 10:24:20 AM
Saw this one yesterday and figured it's right up Languish's alley:

(https://pics.onsizzle.com/hi-white-guys-heres-a-few-things-you-can-do-9987982.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 29, 2016, 10:39:34 AM
Llooks like the team portrait for the 3-time state champion Drinkin' Knuckledraggers, Domestic Violence HS, Class of '89.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 29, 2016, 12:07:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 29, 2016, 10:39:34 AM
Llooks like the team portrait for the 3-time state champion Drinkin' Knuckledraggers, Domestic Violence HS, Class of '89.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3F%26amp%3Bid%3DOIP.kWM1ZEAqIVHfbXCxZ_mzfQEsDh%26amp%3Bw%3D300%26amp%3Bh%3D225%26amp%3Bc%3D0%26amp%3Bpid%3D1.9%26amp%3Brs%3D0%26amp%3Bp%3D0%26amp%3Br%3D0&hash=c4edfc4a14aa1712977b6d93563be643fa8df687)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 29, 2016, 12:14:10 PM
Then maybe they should occasionally shave.  Can't do anything about the partially completed tribal tattoos on their biceps ("I didn't do the rest underneath my arm because I ran out of money", yeah right), but they can at least shave.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 29, 2016, 12:26:53 PM
They'll be much happier without their Union.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 29, 2016, 02:40:57 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15747350_1334219006609923_2051613226311837228_n.jpg?oh=52e1178306b221b1a2d4e113e8d5b2c7&oe=58DD121E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 29, 2016, 03:02:19 PM
No shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 29, 2016, 03:29:56 PM
Whose fault is it if young people are coddled?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on December 29, 2016, 03:37:08 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 29, 2016, 03:29:56 PM
Whose fault is it if young people are coddled?

The jews?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 29, 2016, 05:52:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 29, 2016, 03:29:56 PM
Whose fault is it if young people are coddled?

Not mine.  No participation trophies allowed in my house :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on December 29, 2016, 06:32:46 PM
Nostalgia for the 70s and 80s is a helluva drug.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on December 29, 2016, 08:28:44 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 29, 2016, 07:16:46 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15726315_1211056088984054_4333416578784178510_n.jpg?oh=4ec7c5c4e68cd5597540933119c1e12f&oe=58DCD8D7)

Uhm, actually, if you're an American citizen and you're putting Israel's interests ahead of those of the US, that's, well, not quite treason, but damn close.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 29, 2016, 08:31:00 PM
When did MASH first come on?  Dude is really pushing the Hawkeye look.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on December 29, 2016, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 29, 2016, 08:31:00 PM
When did MASH first come on?  Dude is really pushing the Hawkeye look.

1972

EDIT:  The TV show, that is.  The movie was released in 1970.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on December 29, 2016, 11:02:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 29, 2016, 05:52:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 29, 2016, 03:29:56 PM
Whose fault is it if young people are coddled?

Not mine.  No participation trophies allowed in my house :contract:

*golfclap*
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on December 29, 2016, 11:10:33 PM
Coffee is for closers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 30, 2016, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 29, 2016, 11:10:33 PM
Coffee is for closers.

And sprinkles are for winners.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 30, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
(https://i.redditmedia.com/YkdTVY2rJ-Ffu2vSr5rpGyWId_paMGL4qmTM_pXPGEU.jpg?w=720&s=2a839c4c091815907eacc0939904bc51)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 30, 2016, 04:09:41 PM
I don't think you get the point of this thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 30, 2016, 04:12:03 PM
Spicey was appalled at the blatant Russian fanboy-ism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on December 30, 2016, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2016, 04:12:03 PM
Spicey was appalled at the blatant Russian fanboy-ism.

But really, what's up with that? Is it just to troll the liberals?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 30, 2016, 04:34:27 PM
Quote from: Liep on December 30, 2016, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2016, 04:12:03 PM
Spicey was appalled at the blatant Russian fanboy-ism.

But really, what's up with that? Is it just to troll the liberals?

In what practical way, is the current Russian way of running the state different from how the "alt right" wants to run the US?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on December 31, 2016, 09:15:54 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 30, 2016, 04:34:27 PM
Quote from: Liep on December 30, 2016, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2016, 04:12:03 PM
Spicey was appalled at the blatant Russian fanboy-ism.

But really, what's up with that? Is it just to troll the liberals?

In what practical way, is the current Russian way of running the state different from how the "alt right" wants to run the US?

Tell me exactly who you thing the "alt-right" are, and how do they want to run the US, and I might be able to answer that question.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 31, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
I can see Beetlejuice's point.  Muzzling press freedoms, no problem.  The rule of law and constitutional protections, not that important.  Jiggering the market to reward "the right people," good idea.  Sanctity of elections, negotiable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 31, 2016, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 31, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
I can see Beetlejuice's point.

Who? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 31, 2016, 04:36:16 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 31, 2016, 04:32:46 PM
Who?

Tamas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on December 31, 2016, 04:38:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 31, 2016, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 31, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
I can see Beetlejuice's point.

Who? 

I can't figure out a lot of Yi's nicknames, but here it's pretty clear.  Tamas = Hungarian = beet farmer = Beetlejuice.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 31, 2016, 04:44:40 PM
Also, he's originally from Betelgeuse. :area52:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 31, 2016, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: dps on December 31, 2016, 04:38:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 31, 2016, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 31, 2016, 04:29:58 PM
I can see Beetlejuice's point.

Who? 

I can't figure out a lot of Yi's nicknames, but here it's pretty clear.  Tamas = Hungarian = beet farmer = Beetlejuice.

True, but sometimes they're so inside baseball, they collapse upon themselves like a self-referential supernova.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 31, 2016, 05:00:46 PM
What does beets and Beatlejuice have to with each other?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on January 01, 2017, 11:35:00 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 31, 2016, 05:00:46 PM
What does beets and Beatlejuice have to with each other?

Yi smokes the ganja...so no reference is too far afield.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 03, 2017, 08:17:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/15826036_1212495252118840_7422556736819881046_n.jpg?oh=acbc36a185ef3018ac25c273a7df49a3&oe=58D88E74)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 03, 2017, 08:26:37 AM
But if Putin employs Obama shouldn't they hate Putin too?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 03, 2017, 09:29:31 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/947072_1066196873424474_5099925531360588009_n.jpg?oh=f8f68da5b58ab89aad8f048eeb5a1809&oe=59198A15)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 03, 2017, 09:32:24 AM
Glad they took a break from celebrating Vladimir Putin to attack enemies of freedom :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:09:26 PM
I wish John Oliver would be sent to Gitmo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 03, 2017, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:09:26 PM
I wish John Oliver would be sent to Gitmo.

Why? He is kind of funny. He does some good work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 03, 2017, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:09:26 PM
I wish John Oliver would be sent to Gitmo.

Why? He is kind of funny. He does some good work.

No he isn't. And send the Samantha Bee bitch too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 03, 2017, 08:17:53 PM
Oooh, Ed's feeling strongman.  The landscapers must've come by today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 03, 2017, 08:21:02 PM
If we're going to punish people for unfunny politically charged humor, let's not forget Seth Meyers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:21:38 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 03, 2017, 08:17:53 PM
Oooh, Ed's feeling strongman.  The landscapers must've come by today.

The God Emperor blessed me today. And your comedians suck.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 03, 2017, 08:22:42 PM
I do prefer when Oliver does his 'let's look at pay day loans' stuff rather then his political stuff.

Though the pleading with Scotland to stay during the independence referendum was funny I thought.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:23:51 PM
HOT POCKETS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 05, 2017, 05:53:27 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15621737_1836656536610938_856547691418002097_n.jpg?oh=34f8f472b8da84e5a81289df660a9d72&oe=58D5DDF8)

Wishful thinking?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 05, 2017, 06:08:51 AM
I have read that the dems are in trouble with no big hitters for 2020, all their prominent people being too old.
Who knows.  The question is more would she want to
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 05, 2017, 06:10:08 AM
Yeah all the dynasties in both parties have utterly failed. Let's try to create one more of them!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 05, 2017, 06:19:24 AM
Everything I've heard says Michelle Obama is ready to get out of the spotlight. Course that's mostly rumor and speculation AFAIK.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 05, 2017, 06:30:32 AM
I am pretty sure the US is big enough to supply at least one talented and charismatic Democrat who is not the wife, husband, child, or sibling of a previous President. Surely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 06:31:15 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 05, 2017, 06:19:24 AM
Everything I've heard says Michelle Obama is ready to get out of the spotlight. Course that's mostly rumor and speculation AFAIK.

No, she's pretty much said it out loud as well.  They may very well be involved in politics, but she'd made it pretty sure that family is not going to go through all that again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 05, 2017, 09:25:34 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 05, 2017, 06:30:32 AM
I am pretty sure the US is big enough to supply at least one talented and charismatic Democrat who is not the wife, husband, child, or sibling of a previous President. Surely.

Yes, in 2004 none of us knew who Obama was.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 05, 2017, 09:29:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/15871646_196529177480595_5402052262281812394_n.png?oh=60d9bf6e58a43a9d55f1ec4ab9a0d767&oe=58DB4D40)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 09:37:11 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 03, 2017, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:09:26 PM
I wish John Oliver would be sent to Gitmo.

Why? He is kind of funny. He does some good work.

No he isn't. And send the Samantha Bee bitch too.

How about we send you to gitmo so we don't have to read about your constant bitching and whining about anyone you don't like?

Jesus Christ you are an old angry man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 09:46:40 AM
Don't let him fool you, this is the only place he's allowed to be a dickhead: logged on from the shitter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 05, 2017, 09:51:59 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 09:46:40 AM
Don't let him fool you, this is the only place he's allowed to be a dickhead: logged on from the shitter.

If only were same for trump.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 09:56:32 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 05, 2017, 09:29:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/15871646_196529177480595_5402052262281812394_n.png?oh=60d9bf6e58a43a9d55f1ec4ab9a0d767&oe=58DB4D40)

Huh. Weird. I thought it was Republicans in North Carolina who decided to bizarrely make this a political battle.

And yeah Michelle Obama is not going to be holding any office, much less run for President in just a couple years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 09:57:13 AM
James Woods pees anywhere he wants.  Because James Woods.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 05, 2017, 10:00:37 AM
JAMES WOODS HIGH! JAMES WOODS SMASH!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 10:33:24 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 09:37:11 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 03, 2017, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 03, 2017, 08:09:26 PM
I wish John Oliver would be sent to Gitmo.

Why? He is kind of funny. He does some good work.

No he isn't. And send the Samantha Bee bitch too.

How about we send you to gitmo so we don't have to read about your constant bitching and whining about anyone you don't like?

Jesus Christ you are an old angry man.

How about you drop dead? After fucking yourself first, you pestulant boil on the ass of mankind. Go lance yourself and make North America great again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 10:44:54 AM
And if any of you pussies don't like what I said, you can drop dead too. Worthless whiny shits. Get a job. GET OFF MY LAWN
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 10:45:05 AM
Glad Ed established he is not an angry old man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 10:48:04 AM
Must not have received his high colonic this morning.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 10:49:17 AM
I'm out of MiroLax.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 10:49:20 AM
He's right about both Oliver and Bee, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 10:49:46 AM
THANK YOU.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 10:53:37 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 10:49:20 AM
He's right about both Oliver and Bee, though.

Can't be Jeff Foxworthy and Larry the Cable Guy all the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 10:55:16 AM
HOT POCKETS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 10:55:34 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 10:53:37 AM
Can't be Jeff Foxworthy

If you don't like John Oliver and Samantha Bee you might be an asshole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 10:56:01 AM
GUILTY!  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 11:02:38 AM
You're not fooling anybody, Duc de Douche Normandie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:13:55 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 11:02:38 AM
You're not fooling anybody, Duc de Douche Normandie.

I wonder if Ed knows everyone he meets in France secretly (or openly) despises him. Because trust me, they do. :frog:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:14:39 AM
NOT ALL. :perv:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:15:22 AM
No, they do buddy. We might take your money and smile though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:16:56 AM
My 2 half frog kids hate me?  :cry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
You married into us?

Pardon, je ne savais pas!

You are excused :frog:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 05, 2017, 11:20:34 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
You married into us?

Pardon, je ne savais pas!

You are excused :frog:

He has a made-up story about a French mistress.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:21:07 AM
Married, no. That would be illegal.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:23:01 AM
Hmph. I don't know then. The jury is still out!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:16:56 AM
My 2 half frog kids hate me?  :cry:

The Bastards of Normandy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 05, 2017, 11:30:23 AM
John Oliver's word is gospel. You disagree, the Stoßtruppen will take you away.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:31:57 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 05, 2017, 11:30:23 AM
John Oliver's word is gospel. You disagree, the Stoßtruppen will take you away.

Come at me bro. Do you even lift?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 05, 2017, 11:37:45 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:31:57 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 05, 2017, 11:30:23 AM
John Oliver's word is gospel. You disagree, the Stoßtruppen will take you away.

Come at me bro. Do you even lift?

No. I do the pointing & the heads are cut.

btw, that is one awesome avatar. My stiffy is starting to hurt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 11:54:07 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 05, 2017, 11:15:22 AM
No, they do buddy. We might take your money and smile though.

You people would love me.  I travel well :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 05, 2017, 12:08:57 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 10:49:20 AM
He's right about both Oliver and Bee, though.

No, he isn't.

It is possible to find humor humorous even if it doesn't line up with your political views you know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2017, 12:11:20 PM
Come on who didn't find that Civil Forfeiture bit both funny and informative?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 05, 2017, 12:08:57 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 10:49:20 AM
He's right about both Oliver and Bee, though.

No, he isn't.

It is possible to find humor humorous even if it doesn't line up with your political views you know.

Absolutely.  I wouldn't have much to watch or listen to if I avoided leftist entertainers.  But Oliver's spastic condescending tone grates on me after a while, and Samantha Bee-- ugh.  Nothing good about her.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 12:24:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 12:15:02 PM
and Samantha Bee-- ugh.  Nothing good about her.

Naturally the most successful Daily Show spinoff, but yeah, she has a snatch, so fuck that cooze cunt.
You're as predictable as you and your wife's rhythm method calendar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 12:24:09 PM
Naturally the most successful Daily Show spinoff, but yeah, she has a snatch, so fuck that cooze cunt.

More successful than Colbert?  And is her show really a spinoff?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 12:33:28 PM
Yes.  Colbert's crowd has not followed him over to network. His ratings suck.

And yeah, she's a spinoff. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 01:33:02 PM
He's no longer a spinoff.  The Colbert Report was.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on January 05, 2017, 01:44:15 PM
Does this explain all of Facebook.

Costly Signaling (https://www.edge.org/response-detail/27076)

QuoteThis connects to meme propagation in an interesting way. Memes that everyone agree with typically don't spread very far because they don't signal anything about the sender. Nobody is tweeting that "2+2=4." But controversial memes make a statement. They cause people with an opposing view to respond with opposing memes. As CGP Grey beautifully explained, opposing memes synergistically help each other to spread. They also create a cost for the senders in the form of antagonistic pushback from believers in the opposing meme. But from the view of costly signalling, this is good! If you have enemies attacking you for your beliefs, you better demonstrate your belief and commitment by spreading them even more! Both sides get this boost of reliable signalling and are motivated to intensify meme wars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 05, 2017, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: frunk on January 05, 2017, 01:44:15 PM
Does this explain all of Facebook.

It only explains the meme warfare part which isn't all of Facebook.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 05, 2017, 09:26:46 PM
True or pants on fire?


(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15872023_1349606851776887_6493751429803110236_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=0e55a2f45d22548ba59431751b21840d&oe=591B5703)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 05, 2017, 09:26:46 PM
True or pants on fire?

He went to Miami U of Ohio on SSN survivor benefits from the death of his father, who was apparently a rather very successful Wisconsin lawyer, so the benefits were flush enough to pay out-of-state tuition. 

Now, normally I'd give somebody a pass on something like that, what with losing a father, which totally sucks ass, but yeah...after all that, when your idea of welfare cuts are so draconian that even nuns are moved to such a point of disgust that they've got to get on a bus to drive all the way to DC to remind you that that's not how you were raised, you've got a bit of a perception problem.

People who use a ladder only to pull it up after themselves as fucking assholes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 05, 2017, 11:09:53 PM
Supposedly the Speaker of the House, Paul D. Ryan, after coming to DC and meeting all the homeless people (which is quite frankly half the city), has come round and is more open the disadvantaged poor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 05, 2017, 11:12:58 PM
I didn't know he went to Miami of Ohio. What a dick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 11:14:36 PM
Apparently Wisconsin wasn't posh enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 05, 2017, 11:17:09 PM
Doesn't matter. Trump will crush him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 11:22:00 PM
He already has.  Ryan's a fucking pussy.  Race Bannon's already beaten the shit out of him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 05, 2017, 11:53:27 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15800724_10154355003023869_3034063724313112473_o.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=00c4c3a63438858fc8d0722ceca54271&oe=58E84AD4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 05, 2017, 11:56:35 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 06, 2017, 08:18:28 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 05, 2017, 11:09:53 PM
Supposedly the Speaker of the House, Paul D. Ryan, after coming to DC and meeting all the homeless people (which is quite frankly half the city), has come round and is more open the disadvantaged poor.

:lol:  That's a good one.  When I retell it, though, I will probably cast it as "Paul Ryan walks into a bar" joke, because only nerds use the 'walks into DC" version of the gag.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 06, 2017, 10:13:40 AM
I prefer to skip into bars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 06, 2017, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: frunk on January 05, 2017, 01:44:15 PM
Does this explain all of Facebook.

Costly Signaling (https://www.edge.org/response-detail/27076)

QuoteThis connects to meme propagation in an interesting way. Memes that everyone agree with typically don't spread very far because they don't signal anything about the sender. Nobody is tweeting that "2+2=4." But controversial memes make a statement. They cause people with an opposing view to respond with opposing memes. As CGP Grey beautifully explained, opposing memes synergistically help each other to spread. They also create a cost for the senders in the form of antagonistic pushback from believers in the opposing meme. But from the view of costly signalling, this is good! If you have enemies attacking you for your beliefs, you better demonstrate your belief and commitment by spreading them even more! Both sides get this boost of reliable signalling and are motivated to intensify meme wars.

wtf. does the author not understand memes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 06, 2017, 06:43:08 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 06, 2017, 11:53:33 AM
wtf. does the author not understand memes?

I'd say he understands it better than you, since he wrote more paragraphs about them than you could write words.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 06, 2017, 06:51:29 PM
 :hmm: but only like two paras were about memes
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2017, 06:55:54 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 06, 2017, 06:51:29 PM
:hmm: but only like two paras were about memes

Paras? Seriously?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 06, 2017, 06:59:23 PM
I find Yi's nicknames to be more comprehensible than any of LaCroix's posts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 06, 2017, 07:01:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 06:55:54 PMParas? Seriously?

yea. you know, those walls of text
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2017, 07:07:05 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 06, 2017, 07:01:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 06:55:54 PMParas? Seriously?

yea. you know, those walls of text

Oh you mean a grumbler post?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 06, 2017, 08:52:52 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15895102_1245566115481082_6853229751198539803_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=73b88ed57308b4e63dabdb64a3e506eb&oe=59172334)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2017, 03:35:59 AM
I think the meter's off on the last line. :nerd:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 08, 2017, 06:10:23 AM
Quotemost cutting thing you can say is "who's this clown?" because it implies they're a) a clown & b) not even one of the better-known clowns
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 08, 2017, 07:09:56 AM
Not everyone can be Krusty or Baskets.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 08, 2017, 08:53:25 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15940903_1243316352416323_8999959118886014209_n.jpg?oh=6437b2139500b63a2b4335f75df6f717&oe=58E40B4D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on January 08, 2017, 10:38:14 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 07, 2017, 03:35:59 AM
I think the meter's off on the last line. :nerd:

Not so much the meter as syllabic wonkiness- somewhere along the line, a troche and an iamb got swapped.

Quote
TRUMPty DUMPty WANTed a WALL
SWORE (hold a beat) MEXico'd PAY for it ALL
BUT once elECted, reVERsed what he'd SAID
NOW wants to STICK us with THE bill inSTEAD.

It's the unnatural stressing of the word "the" that throws it off, not the actual meter. </even bigger :nerd:>
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 11, 2017, 08:35:36 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15873025_10154287433797643_7005720536487375238_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=0e0107d6bdd61e64f269529285e41f85&oe=58E3B35D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2017, 12:41:42 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14953575_1759680774079285_6472564034683619313_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=fd1859039fb5d7e245aa612f589e5751&oe=59213AA9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 12, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
That looks like Owen Wilson.  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2017, 12:44:13 AM
Yes that's the point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 12:47:16 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 12, 2017, 12:43:32 AM
That looks like Owen Wilson.  :huh:

And that is not the Mona Lisa. Get it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 12, 2017, 12:50:37 AM
Didn't read carefully enough. /shrug

It's a pretty dumb joke anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 12, 2017, 07:35:10 AM
Shared, a post my oldest sister (the one with the gay kids) shared by "Anti Corporate Media":
https://www.facebook.com/anticorpmedia/


QuoteI have had it with the political correctness. We all need to UNITE as ONE and stand up for Jesus. Jesus told us in Matthew 13:24-25 "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away." Jesus explained the parable in Matthew 13:37-39 "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil." Now we are full of weeds and everyone is asleep, not even aware of what is going on. I don't care if people have other religions or don't believe in God. I don't care what color your skin is. I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican. I don't care what part of the world you were born in or where you live. It's time we stand up for our Lord, instead of laying down with our eyes closed! The victory is not over with Trump's win. It is only the beginning. We as Americans and Christians need to be aware of the secret war that is being waged upon us and take a wrecking ball to the spirit of political correctness. It's time we Take America Back Again! In the Holy Name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Accompanied by this video: https://www.facebook.com/anticorpmedia/videos/1848895875367839/ "Soros's Formula for Killing America: A Brief Guide (c)The American Association of Evangelicals"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 12, 2017, 07:38:58 AM
Amen!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2017, 07:39:32 AM
She's going to wind up as an episode of Dateline.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on January 12, 2017, 07:57:29 AM
(https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15390876_1826106250937417_2833971507326843647_n.jpg?oh=62f7249531f2a52fd64297420a5767d4&oe=590EF79F)

That guy is the creator of Silk Road.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2017, 08:02:51 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2017, 07:35:10 AM
Shared, a post my oldest sister (the one with the gay kids) shared by "Anti Corporate Media":
https://www.facebook.com/anticorpmedia/


QuoteI have had it with the political correctness. We all need to UNITE as ONE and stand up for Jesus. Jesus told us in Matthew 13:24-25 "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away." Jesus explained the parable in Matthew 13:37-39 "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil." Now we are full of weeds and everyone is asleep, not even aware of what is going on. I don't care if people have other religions or don't believe in God. I don't care what color your skin is. I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican. I don't care what part of the world you were born in or where you live. It's time we stand up for our Lord, instead of laying down with our eyes closed! The victory is not over with Trump's win. It is only the beginning. We as Americans and Christians need to be aware of the secret war that is being waged upon us and take a wrecking ball to the spirit of political correctness. It's time we Take America Back Again! In the Holy Name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Accompanied by this video: https://www.facebook.com/anticorpmedia/videos/1848895875367839/ "Soros's Formula for Killing America: A Brief Guide (c)The American Association of Evangelicals"

People of other religions and/or who don't believe in God should "stand up for our Lord"? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2017, 07:35:10 AM
QuoteNow we are full of weeds and everyone is asleep, not even aware of what is going on. I don't care if people have other religions or don't believe in God. I don't care what color your skin is. I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican. I don't care what part of the world you were born in or where you live. It's time we stand up for our Lord, instead of laying down with our eyes closed! The victory is not over with Trump's win. It is only the beginning. We as Americans and Christians need to be aware of the secret war that is being waged upon us and take a wrecking ball to the spirit of political correctness. It's time we Take America Back Again! In the Holy Name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Join a struggle where I am both unsure about what it is we are fighting for and against? What does taking a wrecking ball to political correctness even mean? America's greatness depends on our acceptance of calling people racial slurs? Huh?

See this is when I just figure we are speaking different languages here. If they are worried about George Soros he will is almost 90 years old so I think we will cool.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 12, 2017, 09:48:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 09:42:47 AMWhat does taking a wrecking ball to political correctness even mean?

It mostly means people want to call gays fags, blacks niggers, and Jews kikes without a care in the world, I presume.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 09:55:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2017, 09:48:19 AM
It mostly means people want to call gays fags, blacks niggers, and Jews kikes without a care in the world, I presume.

Yeah I don't understand what that gets us :P

Especially in the context of the parable being mentioned with contrasts a spiritual life with being corrupted by the pursuit of wealth and worldliness. What does that have to do with Political Correctness?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 10:04:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2017, 09:48:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 09:42:47 AMWhat does taking a wrecking ball to political correctness even mean?

It mostly means people want to call gays fags, blacks niggers, and Jews kikes without a care in the world, I presume.

No, that isn't what it means at all, actually.

It means we should stop creating "safe spaces" in schools which amount to denying free speech in the interest of avoiding hurting anyones feelings.

It means we should stop demanding that people only talk about things that the tolerance mafia has deemed acceptable.

Now, of course it is the case that those who do want to use racial slurs are going to march into the opening that the dumbfuck left has left open for them by insisting on all this stupidly over the top political correctness, and leverage it, which does kind of suck. But that is 100% predictable, so at least some of the fault for it lies with the left for allowing it to happen, and then acting surprised when the dumbasses on the other side take advantage of it.

Dismissing all of this as "people want to be racists" is what got Donald Trump elected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 12, 2017, 10:05:59 AM
In this specific case though, they do just want to be racist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 10:12:19 AM
Well it is why I asked the question.

The 'safe space' thing seems to be almost universally mocked and derided and seems limited to radical college students.

I look around the internet and the media and I see many discussions taking place without regard for what the tolerance mafia have to say.

But I live in Texas so the stupidity of the left sometimes seems like a distant thing to me. I imagine if I lived in Berkeley I would feel a bit differently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 12, 2017, 10:13:00 AM
Also, I think it was Martinus' biggest contribution on this forum when he mentioned, these people may be just upset because political correctness has destroyed their standing in society.

This might be oversimplifying but not by much, and more and more I feel it to be true. I mean, think about it. In places like the South, no matter what a shitty poor life you led, if you were white, you were by default above every black people. You had a non-zero status on the ladder of society, simply on the merit of somebody else occupying the zero position.



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 12, 2017, 10:17:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 10:12:19 AM
Well it is why I asked the question.

The 'safe space' thing seems to be almost universally mocked and derided and seems limited to radical college students.

I look around the internet and the media and I see many discussions taking place without regard for what the tolerance mafia have to say.

But I live in Texas so the stupidity of the left sometimes seems like a distant thing to me. I imagine if I lived in Berkeley I would feel a bit differently.


Back in the late 90s in Hungary, you had to admit that the leftist intelligentsia, their circles and their influence, I mean, had a decisive influence on political discussions and public life, I mean, a disproportionate one.

This of course became one of the calling words of the right, long after there was clear parity.

One of the things the right had trouble with, was that these leftists labelled everyone who disagreed with their social-liberal views fascists/nazis. And I did myself feel the left was overdoing it.
The complaints from the right drew many similarities with the "omg safe space culture is suffocating us" lines.

Then the old left's media influence shrunk to nonexistent after 2010, now the right reigns supreme. And guess what? The media is full of loud racist, intolerant crap.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2017, 10:27:20 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 10:04:39 AM
Dismissing all of this as "people want to be racists" is what got Donald Trump elected.

This just in: racism got Donald Trump elected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2017, 10:37:13 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 12, 2017, 10:17:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 10:12:19 AM
Well it is why I asked the question.

The 'safe space' thing seems to be almost universally mocked and derided and seems limited to radical college students.

I look around the internet and the media and I see many discussions taking place without regard for what the tolerance mafia have to say.

But I live in Texas so the stupidity of the left sometimes seems like a distant thing to me. I imagine if I lived in Berkeley I would feel a bit differently.


Back in the late 90s, you had to admit that the leftist intelligentsia, their circles and their influence, I mean, had a decisive influence on political discussions and public life, I mean, a disproportionate one.

This of course became one of the calling words of the right, long after there was clear parity.

One of the things the right had trouble with, was that these leftists labelled everyone who disagreed with their social-liberal views fascists/nazis. And I did myself feel the left was overdoing it.
The complaints from the right drew many similarities with the "omg safe space culture is suffocating us" lines.

Then the old left's media influence shrunk to nonexistent after 2010, now the right reigns supreme. And guess what? The media is full of loud racist, intolerant crap.

They did? I don't really recall that being the case in the US.

I'd say really that the fig leaf that's being used of crazy political correctness is just that. At least in the US, it has never been that extreme and pointing to what happens in colleges in the US is just disingenuous. Universities do strange things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 12, 2017, 10:38:22 AM
Sorry I wanted to put "in Hungary" in there. This was an example from Hungary :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2017, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 10:12:19 AM
Well it is why I asked the question.

The 'safe space' thing seems to be almost universally mocked and derided and seems limited to radical college students.

I look around the internet and the media and I see many discussions taking place without regard for what the tolerance mafia have to say.

But I live in Texas so the stupidity of the left sometimes seems like a distant thing to me. I imagine if I lived in Berkeley I would feel a bit differently.

I mean it was definitely so in SF when I lived there but then, it was pretty easy to choose not to live in SF. I'm not sure why someone in say, Alabama, would care all that much about what liberal stuff was happening locally in SF.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 12, 2017, 12:44:36 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 10:04:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2017, 09:48:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 09:42:47 AMWhat does taking a wrecking ball to political correctness even mean?

It mostly means people want to call gays fags, blacks niggers, and Jews kikes without a care in the world, I presume.

No, that isn't what it means at all, actually.

It means we should stop creating "safe spaces" in schools which amount to denying free speech in the interest of avoiding hurting anyones feelings.

It means we should stop demanding that people only talk about things that the tolerance mafia has deemed acceptable.

Now, of course it is the case that those who do want to use racial slurs are going to march into the opening that the dumbfuck left has left open for them by insisting on all this stupidly over the top political correctness, and leverage it, which does kind of suck. But that is 100% predictable, so at least some of the fault for it lies with the left for allowing it to happen, and then acting surprised when the dumbasses on the other side take advantage of it.

Dismissing all of this as "people want to be racists" is what got Donald Trump elected.

Except people of have been complaining about political correctness for decades.  Long before "safe spaces".

When political correctness comes up I think it's important to see what the Right considers politically incorrect.

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Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 12:53:33 PM
Yeah I remember those amazing strawmen beating books.

Though they had pretty different covers. Sad to think they had many reprintings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 12, 2017, 01:46:19 PM
I saw that civil war book at the Colonial Williamsburg gift shop. I almost bought it  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on January 12, 2017, 02:40:56 PM
The sunny southern state of Cuba  :bleeding:

Pandering to neocolonialism in the XXIst century...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 02:42:06 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 12, 2017, 02:40:56 PM
The sunny southern state of Cuba  :bleeding:

Pandering to neocolonialism in the XXIst century...

Oh they were planning on annexing all sorts of land for slavery expansion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2017, 03:53:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 02:42:06 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 12, 2017, 02:40:56 PM
The sunny southern state of Cuba  :bleeding:

Pandering to neocolonialism in the XXIst century...

Oh they were planning on annexing all sorts of land for slavery expansion.

That would be before it faded away naturally, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 12, 2017, 03:54:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2017, 03:53:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 02:42:06 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 12, 2017, 02:40:56 PM
The sunny southern state of Cuba  :bleeding:

Pandering to neocolonialism in the XXIst century...

Oh they were planning on annexing all sorts of land for slavery expansion.

That would be before it faded away naturally, right?

Naturally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2017, 03:59:26 PM
Most of those I can see what truth they're aiming at, except the one about the Bible leading to science.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 04:09:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2017, 03:59:26 PM
Most of those I can see what truth they're aiming at, except the one about the Bible leading to science.

They are grabbing random nuggets of true things to give a false message. A rather common political strategy.

The claim that slavery would have faded away naturally was indeed made by people like Davis, but only AFTER the war was over and slavery ending was a fait accompli. Before the war he was claiming slavery was an amazing pillar of civilization.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2017, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 04:09:12 PM
They are grabbing random nuggets of true things to give a false message. A rather common political strategy.

Right.  So what's the random nugget of truth in the Bible/science one?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 12, 2017, 04:14:26 PM
The Bible did start in the Middle Ages.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 12, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 12, 2017, 12:44:36 PM
Except people of have been complaining about political correctness for decades.  Long before "safe spaces".

When political correctness comes up I think it's important to see what the Right considers politically incorrect.

Those do fall under the category of being politically incorrect :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2017, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 04:09:12 PM
They are grabbing random nuggets of true things to give a false message. A rather common political strategy.

Right.  So what's the random nugget of truth in the Bible/science one?

The archaeology one was based on the work of...um...some fundamentalist Christian archaeologist who dominated that kind of archaeology for a long time right up until the 80s. So discoveries were being interpreted in a way that seemed to prove the Bible, but the problem was that the practice was to assume the historicity of the Bible so it was kind of a closed loop.

The science claims are similar to what Muslims do with the Koran. Cherry pick things that just coincidentally happen to be, or are similar to being, scientifically correct. At least I think that is what they are going for. How they therefore show that no science was done by the Greeks is beyond me. (or that science is some kind of Medieval invention)

The fact that Atheists include Commies and far leftists is obviously being brought up.

I don't know. I am sure there are a ton of Christian philosophers they can quote for the other stuff.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 04:45:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 12, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Those do fall under the category of being politically incorrect :huh:

Well they are also dishonest and politically motivated lies. But I suppose there are many things you can do that are horrible that also might fall under politically incorrect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 12, 2017, 05:28:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 04:45:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 12, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Those do fall under the category of being politically incorrect :huh:

Well they are also dishonest and politically motivated lies. But I suppose there are many things you can do that are horrible that also might fall under politically incorrect.

Yeah, pretty much.  Btw I think my brother has The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: Tamas on January 12, 2017, 10:05:59 AM
In this specific case though, they do just want to be racist.

Very possible, but I covered that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2017, 10:37:13 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 12, 2017, 10:17:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 10:12:19 AM
Well it is why I asked the question.

The 'safe space' thing seems to be almost universally mocked and derided and seems limited to radical college students.

I look around the internet and the media and I see many discussions taking place without regard for what the tolerance mafia have to say.

But I live in Texas so the stupidity of the left sometimes seems like a distant thing to me. I imagine if I lived in Berkeley I would feel a bit differently.


Back in the late 90s, you had to admit that the leftist intelligentsia, their circles and their influence, I mean, had a decisive influence on political discussions and public life, I mean, a disproportionate one.

This of course became one of the calling words of the right, long after there was clear parity.

One of the things the right had trouble with, was that these leftists labelled everyone who disagreed with their social-liberal views fascists/nazis. And I did myself feel the left was overdoing it.
The complaints from the right drew many similarities with the "omg safe space culture is suffocating us" lines.

Then the old left's media influence shrunk to nonexistent after 2010, now the right reigns supreme. And guess what? The media is full of loud racist, intolerant crap.

They did? I don't really recall that being the case in the US.

I'd say really that the fig leaf that's being used of crazy political correctness is just that. At least in the US, it has never been that extreme and pointing to what happens in colleges in the US is just disingenuous. Universities do strange things.

There are plenty of examples outside that one though.

SPLC calling people who advocate for reform in Islam "anti-Muslim extremists".

The suggestion that any concern over Muslim immigration is "Islamaphobia".

The demand that Palestinians be given precedence over Israels and Jews in Universities.

Obama's categorical refusal to admit that religion has anything to do with Islamic terrorism.


The demand that ANY concern raised over the advisability of increased Muslim immigration is driven by bigotry.

The left most certainly has a definite track record of using a demand for absolute "tolerance" to silence discussion on topics of race, the impact of race on behaviors, the suggestion that there is any cultural issue that blacks might consider adressing themselves (re: Cosby being blasted for suggesting that maybe black men might consider raising their kids as something that might help).

And you can argue that these are corner cases, and you would be right. But they do happen, and they do get media attention. They are corner cases, and in many cases most people even mock them. But most people mock the right wing creationist bullshit as well - that doesn't mean it doesn't get plenty of play and attention. And the left uses the most nutbad right wing bullshit to represent the entirety of the non-left position in the same fashion the right does.

But no matter - keep pretending like everything is fine, and the left doesn't need to change their message or presentation. And we will see more Donald Trumps.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2017, 06:42:27 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
There are plenty of examples outside that one though.

SPLC calling people who advocate for reform in Islam "anti-Muslim extremists".

SPLC does some strange things at times. I guess one could take that as enough to tar them up but then I'd suggest one is looking for reasons to discredit them by hanging their hat on that. I also don't think that's really connected at all to why people vote Trump. Trump voters are not the sort caring about those trying to make reforms in Islam, they are too busy crying about where are the moderate muslims denouncing terrorist acts.

Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PMThe suggestion that any concern over Muslim immigration is "Islamaphobia".

Probably a bit off the mark but at the same time, pretty much true.

Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PMThe demand that Palestinians be given precedence over Israels and Jews in Universities.

I don't know who are what is making those demands.

Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PMObama's categorical refusal to admit that religion has anything to do with Islamic terrorism.

I think that's a mischaracterization. What's next 'and they've never said radical islam!'?

Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PMThe demand that ANY concern raised over the advisability of increased Muslim immigration is driven by bigotry.

Huh, how is that a demand? Also seems like you've already listed this one above.

Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PMThe left most certainly has a definite track record of using a demand for absolute "tolerance" to silence discussion on topics of race, the impact of race on behaviors, the suggestion that there is any cultural issue that blacks might consider adressing themselves (re: Cosby being blasted for suggesting that maybe black men might consider raising their kids as something that might help).

I don't think that's the case at all. In fact, I think now, more than ever, we've increased levels of dialogue about race. I'll agree the Cosby bit was crazy given that it was something that black people have already known about as a problem in their communities for longer than I've been alive. Of course, part of the furor may have been about the fact that when you're in a struggle for perception (which is probably fair for black people in America) doesn't help to have members of your own team calling you out for all to see (particularly when said individual isn't actually saying anything you don't already know).  Btw, strange example given what happened next with him. :D

Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PMAnd you can argue that these are corner cases, and you would be right. But they do happen, and they do get media attention. They are corner cases, and in many cases most people even mock them. But most people mock the right wing creationist bullshit as well - that doesn't mean it doesn't get plenty of play and attention. And the left uses the most nutbad right wing bullshit to represent the entirety of the non-left position in the same fashion the right does.

Not sure I follow this. So people get some upset over corner cases that they can't help but elect morons like Trump? I don't think the left in pointing out crazy right wing bullshit that is on the rise (hi, creationism) is brought up to elect crazies. More like legitimate concerns about people being indoctrinated into toxic bullshit.  Not, of course, that I'm such a fan of the entire agenda of 'the left', I'm only a recently Democract - mainly because the level of hate, ignorance, pettiness, spite and wrongheadness of the Republicans far outweighs much of what the 'authoritarian' Democrats have mustered up in the past couple decades.

Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
But no matter - keep pretending like everything is fine, and the left doesn't need to change their message or presentation. And we will see more Donald Trumps.

Hey if America wants to elect Trumps, then they sure as hell deserve them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 12, 2017, 07:19:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
But no matter - keep pretending like everything is fine, and the left doesn't need to change their message or presentation. And we will see more Donald Trumps.

I don't think very many people are pretending everything is fine at this point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 07:28:58 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 12, 2017, 05:28:12 PM
Yeah, pretty much.  Btw I think my brother has The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam :lol:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6138hPSu6EL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

:lol: Well that is basically what I expected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2017, 07:31:20 PM
I've got a copy of The Turner Diaries.  And no, it has nothing to do with Ike and Tina's first headlining tour.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 07:33:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2017, 07:31:20 PM
I've got a copy of The Turner Diaries.  And no, it has nothing to do with Ike and Tina's first headlining tour.

Isn't that the one where all the non-white people get nuked?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 07:35:06 PM
Berkut is right.  The left, in US as a whole, is unambiguously in the right on about 80% of the issues, but political correctness or whatever you choose to call it is their biggest failing.  There is definitely a climate where a lot of true things cannot be said in polite company, and should one commit a faux pas and say them anyway, the cultured people are supposed to counter with a specious argument.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2017, 07:39:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 07:33:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 12, 2017, 07:31:20 PM
I've got a copy of The Turner Diaries.  And no, it has nothing to do with Ike and Tina's first headlining tour.

Isn't that the one where all the non-white people get nuked?

Yeah, but Israel gets it first and right hard, so it's all good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2017, 07:43:50 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 07:35:06 PM
Berkut is right.  The left, in US as a whole, is unambiguously in the right on about 80% of the issues, but political correctness or whatever you choose to call it is their biggest failing.  There is definitely a climate where a lot of true things cannot be said in polite company, and should one commit a faux pas and say them anyway, the cultured people are supposed to counter with a specious argument.

There is no way to moderate the nutballs. Leftist nutballs are so VERY RIGHTEOUS that they cannot really be reasoned with. They just lash out at whomever. It gets pretty ridiculous. I remember I used to read this Feminist page and at one point one of the feminists made a cutsy remark about how she was enjoying her runs in the park much better these days since it was spring and the hot guys were out in their running shorts or something. Just a throw-away whatever. And it was amazing the tidal wave of righteous rage that descended upon her as a horrible sexual objectifying monster.

I wish I could say that was unusual. So once somebody starts banging the 'this is equivalent to violence' drum it just gets nuts.

Now I see things like this on the right, especially with the Trump movement going on, but it sure seems like the left struggles with it more. The more radical you are the more legitimacy you seem to have in the conversation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 12, 2017, 07:45:15 PM
I don't think I ever read my copy of the Turner Diaries. I'm too busy highlighting my copy of Battlefield Earth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 12, 2017, 07:54:35 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
There are plenty of examples outside that one though.

...
Obama's categorical refusal to admit that religion has anything to do with Islamic terrorism.


I missed this one.  When did he do that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2017, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 07:35:06 PM
Berkut is right.  The left, in US as a whole, is unambiguously in the right on about 80% of the issues, but political correctness or whatever you choose to call it is their biggest failing.  There is definitely a climate where a lot of true things cannot be said in polite company, and should one commit a faux pas and say them anyway, the cultured people are supposed to counter with a specious argument.

How do you distinguish between positions that you personally agree with and those that are unambiguously right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 12, 2017, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2017, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 07:35:06 PM
Berkut is right.  The left, in US as a whole, is unambiguously in the right on about 80% of the issues, but political correctness or whatever you choose to call it is their biggest failing.  There is definitely a climate where a lot of true things cannot be said in polite company, and should one commit a faux pas and say them anyway, the cultured people are supposed to counter with a specious argument.

How do you distinguish between positions that you personally agree with and those that are unambiguously right?

Why would he suddenly start doing that?  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2017, 08:01:30 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 12, 2017, 07:45:15 PM
I don't think I ever read my copy of the Turner Diaries. I'm too busy highlighting my copy of Battlefield Earth.

Spoiler

Whites good, darkies and Jews bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 12, 2017, 08:07:24 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 12, 2017, 08:01:30 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 12, 2017, 07:45:15 PM
I don't think I ever read my copy of the Turner Diaries. I'm too busy highlighting my copy of Battlefield Earth.

Spoiler

Whites good, darkies and Jews bad.

DAMMIT. MIGHT AS WELL THROW IT IN THE TRASH
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 08:08:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2017, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 07:35:06 PM
Berkut is right.  The left, in US as a whole, is unambiguously in the right on about 80% of the issues, but political correctness or whatever you choose to call it is their biggest failing.  There is definitely a climate where a lot of true things cannot be said in polite company, and should one commit a faux pas and say them anyway, the cultured people are supposed to counter with a specious argument.

How do you distinguish between positions that you personally agree with and those that are unambiguously right?
By using using logical reasoning.  Ask yourself what would be a good outcome for society, and then reason things out as to what policy would bring this to fruition.  Given that most Americans at least claim to have the same idea of what good and bad outcomes are, it's not surprising that as long as reason is followed and facts are properly collected and analyzed, a similar set of conclusions would be arrived upon.

Now, is it possible that I'm not perceiving reality in a reasonable way, and that neither my facts nor my reasoning are in any way sound?  Of course.  No one is guaranteed sanity.  Any one of us can be too insane to be aware of our insanity.  But we all have to take a leap of faith that we're not insane in order to function.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2017, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 12, 2017, 08:07:24 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 12, 2017, 08:01:30 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 12, 2017, 07:45:15 PM
I don't think I ever read my copy of the Turner Diaries. I'm too busy highlighting my copy of Battlefield Earth.

Spoiler

Whites good, darkies and Jews bad.

DAMMIT. MIGHT AS WELL THROW IT IN THE TRASH

That's what you get for spoiling my Chickamauga book. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 12, 2017, 08:33:52 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 08:08:10 PMBy using using logical reasoning.  Ask yourself what would be a good outcome for society, and then reason things out as to what policy would bring this to fruition.  Given that most Americans at least claim to have the same idea of what good and bad outcomes are, it's not surprising that as long as reason is followed and facts are properly collected and analyzed, a similar set of conclusions would be arrived upon.

Now, is it possible that I'm not perceiving reality in a reasonable way, and that neither my facts nor my reasoning are in any way sound?  Of course.  No one is guaranteed sanity.  Any one of us can be too insane to be aware of our insanity.  But we all have to take a leap of faith that we're not insane in order to function.

another possibility is you're not considering all the factors in analyzing whatever policy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2017, 08:51:50 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 08:08:10 PM
By using using logical reasoning.  Ask yourself what would be a good outcome for society, and then reason things out as to what policy would bring this to fruition.  Given that most Americans at least claim to have the same idea of what good and bad outcomes are, it's not surprising that as long as reason is followed and facts are properly collected and analyzed, a similar set of conclusions would be arrived upon.

Now, is it possible that I'm not perceiving reality in a reasonable way, and that neither my facts nor my reasoning are in any way sound?  Of course.  No one is guaranteed sanity.  Any one of us can be too insane to be aware of our insanity.  But we all have to take a leap of faith that we're not insane in order to function.

I infer by the way you didn't answer my question that in your mind your preferences and unambiguous good are the same thing.

I, and I expect most people, would take exception to your premise that most Americans agree on what constitutes good and bad outcomes.

I also have problems with the notion that analysis of policy options (once these widely agreed goals have been established) then yields choices that are unambiguously right.  Or perhaps unambiguously doesn't mean what I think it means?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 09:14:16 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 12, 2017, 07:19:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
But no matter - keep pretending like everything is fine, and the left doesn't need to change their message or presentation. And we will see more Donald Trumps.

I don't think very many people are pretending everything is fine at this point.

Plenty of people are pretending like the problem is just racist right wingers, and there is no problem with the left, or how it is perceived by moderates and the right, at all.

And again, I think that is actually *mostly* true - I don't hang a majority of the blame on the left. But it only takes a small shift to see horrendous outcomes - something like a couple hundred thousand votes in a couple states.

But Trump got a decent chunk of votes from people who voted for Obama last time. Presumably THOSE people are not racists.

The left has to figure out how to start appealing to more than just the died in the whool left wing "elitists". And I very much consider myself one of those elitists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 09:16:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 12, 2017, 08:51:50 PM
I infer by the way you didn't answer my question that in your mind your preferences and unambiguous good are the same thing.
Preferences do not factor into this.  You can be in the right only on issues where there can be right answers.  How do you improve health outcomes most effectively and efficiently is a question with the right answer, even if it may not be easy to get to.  Abortion, not so much.
QuoteI also have problems with the notion that analysis of policy options (once these widely agreed goals have been established) then yields choices that are unambiguously right.  Or perhaps unambiguously doesn't mean what I think it means?
Okay, I'll cop to using stronger language than is either warranted or even reflective of my opinion.  You can never truly be certain about complicated issues, but you can be reasonably certain about a lot of them in politics.  If you're worried about rising income inequality, giving Republicans essentially unchecked power is a pretty dumb thing to do with high level of certainty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 09:32:13 PM
You know, I don't really get the objection to someone saying they think they are right about things, even all things.

I think I am right about all of my views. Isn't that kind of self evident? DGuller identifies himself strongly as a lefty, and he says lefties are right about 80% of the topics. How does that come as a surprise? Of course I think I am right about everything I have an opinion on, because if I decided I was wrong on any of the items, my opinion would change to align with what I think is right.

I would find it odd if he said he was comfortable calling himself a strong left winger, but he only thought lefties were right 50% of the time. That would make no sense. He is a strong lefty BECAUSE he thinks they are mostly right about the bulk of the issues.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 12, 2017, 09:42:38 PM
the problem when you think you're so right on something is it can lead to you unintentionally overlooking or misinterpreting things that should change your views
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 10:04:05 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 12, 2017, 09:42:38 PM
the problem when you think you're so right on something is it can lead to you unintentionally overlooking or misinterpreting things that should change your views

Thank you Captain Obvious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 12, 2017, 10:16:03 PM
well, you said you didn't get the objection
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 12, 2017, 10:21:23 PM
Yeah, obviously a person should feel he is right about things that he has an opinion on, because, well, why would anyone hold an opinion which he felt he was wrong on.

OTOH, on most things, a person should probably at least acknowledge that it's possible that he's wrong.  If you don't do that, you can never grow or learn.  Of course, when you're debating something, it's tough to acknowledge that you might be wrong, because people will try to twist that to prove that you're wrong.

Beyond that, though, I have to disagree to a certain extent with DGuller's view that the American people in general agree on what would be good outcomes for society, at least to the extent that it's a useful starting point for evaluating policies.  Sure, we almost all agree that a terrorist attack on a major US city that kills 50,000 people would be a bad thing, and that we should have policies that prevent it, or at least minimize the likelihood of it happening.  But I'd hesitate to say that there's any consensus as to what policies would accomplish that with the least interference with our fundamental freedoms, or even it any interference with our fundamental freedoms is permissible in pursuit of the goal.  Heck, we can't even agree on what the exact limits of our fundamental freedoms are.  Is owning a handgun a fundamental freedom?  Is abortion?  Gay marriage?  Burning the US flag? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 12, 2017, 10:37:40 PM
I think everything is fine at this point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 12, 2017, 11:10:40 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 09:14:16 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 12, 2017, 07:19:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
But no matter - keep pretending like everything is fine, and the left doesn't need to change their message or presentation. And we will see more Donald Trumps.

I don't think very many people are pretending everything is fine at this point.

Plenty of people are pretending like the problem is just racist right wingers, and there is no problem with the left, or how it is perceived by moderates and the right, at all.

And again, I think that is actually *mostly* true - I don't hang a majority of the blame on the left. But it only takes a small shift to see horrendous outcomes - something like a couple hundred thousand votes in a couple states.

But Trump got a decent chunk of votes from people who voted for Obama last time. Presumably THOSE people are not racists.

The left has to figure out how to start appealing to more than just the died in the whool left wing "elitists". And I very much consider myself one of those elitists.

Let's not forget that Hillary, an incredibly flawed candidate for a lefty like me, got about 3 million more votes. If your system made any sense, she'd be president.

Trump voters are responsible for their vote. It's not the Democratic party's fault that people voted for Trump. Again, they got 3 million more votes with a flawed candidate. Why is the onus on the DNC to change tactics and modify their message, vision etc? Because a few hundred thousand white guys in the midwest have disproportionate electoral college influence?

Fuck those people. They wanted Trump. They got him. Sometimes you only learn not to touch the oven after you get burned. Maybe once they see their situation worsen under the orange pedonazi, they'll start thinking about their vote more. Or maybe not, who knows.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 13, 2017, 12:57:08 AM
Quote from: DGuller on January 12, 2017, 07:35:06 PM
Berkut is right.  The left, in US as a whole, is unambiguously in the right on about 80% of the issues, but political correctness or whatever you choose to call it is their biggest failing.  There is definitely a climate where a lot of true things cannot be said in polite company, and should one commit a faux pas and say them anyway, the cultured people are supposed to counter with a specious argument.

We just don't give confederates a fair shake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2017, 03:11:19 AM
Various family members are cheering that Trump refused to take questions from a CNN reporter during his press conference, saying that he should just ignore press and reporters completely and keep them in the dark.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 13, 2017, 04:36:17 AM
Once a German, always a German.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 13, 2017, 07:49:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 09:14:16 PM
... just the died in the whool left wing "elitists"...

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2017, 07:56:41 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 13, 2017, 07:49:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2017, 09:14:16 PM
... just the died in the whool left wing "elitists"...

:lol:

That's awesome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 13, 2017, 10:07:45 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 12, 2017, 11:10:40 PM
Because a few hundred thousand white guys in the midwest have disproportionate electoral college influence?

:showoff:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 13, 2017, 10:09:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2017, 03:11:19 AM
Various family members are cheering that Trump refused to take questions from a CNN reporter during his press conference, saying that he should just ignore press and reporters completely and keep them in the dark.

Lemme guess, you're seeing a lot of that Batman slapping CNN meme? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 13, 2017, 10:13:21 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 12, 2017, 11:10:40 PM
Trump voters are responsible for their vote. It's not the Democratic party's fault that people voted for Trump. Again, they got 3 million more votes with a flawed candidate. Why is the onus on the DNC to change tactics and modify their message, vision etc? Because a few hundred thousand white guys in the midwest have disproportionate electoral college influence?
The Republicans are responsible for designating him as their candidate, but once he's their candidate, I find it hard to blame Republicans voting for a Republican candidate.  Most PQ supporters supported the charter, until it cost them the election, then they all said they were against it.  The same would have happenned to the Republicans.

Quote
Fuck those people. They wanted Trump. They got him. Sometimes you only learn not to touch the oven after you get burned. Maybe once they see their situation worsen under the orange pedonazi, they'll start thinking about their vote more. Or maybe not, who knows.
If you look at the numbers, the problem is the number of Democrats who voted Obama but refused to endorse Hillary.  Again, it's a problem of loyalty.  They didn't get their boy Sanders, they got convinced by him that Hillary or Trump was more of the same, and they stayed home, or even voted for Trump this time.

This was the problem.  The left lacking loyalty and honor, as always.  Petty disputes over&over again, just like in the PQ where we now have to deal with Option Nationale and Quebec Solidaire morons on top of the uber leftist PQ intelligentsia like Martine Ouellet's supporters. Could they rally together and agree on a common centrist platform to fight the Liberals?  No, that was too much to asked.  As Oex once told me, the left wing would never agree to follow in a right direction.  Compromise for the left means the rightwing must shut up and follow the left to the edge of the cliff.

Well, the Americans are at the cliff now, thanks to Bernie Sanders and his Bernie bros.

I can't blame morons for acting like morons, it's like blaming a snake for biting.  But I can blame supposedly intelligent people for refusing to vote against the most dangerous individual to their country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2017, 10:33:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 13, 2017, 10:09:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2017, 03:11:19 AM
Various family members are cheering that Trump refused to take questions from a CNN reporter during his press conference, saying that he should just ignore press and reporters completely and keep them in the dark.

Lemme guess, you're seeing a lot of that Batman slapping CNN meme?

Some.

And this.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/15873557_1220028564753473_6448707385667854011_n.jpg?oh=0c8ed9a26295a8140cf6d688bd55e2bd&oe=58D979AF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2017, 01:44:06 PM
Lol, they just slap letters and words together, don't they?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on January 13, 2017, 02:41:14 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2017, 10:33:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/15873557_1220028564753473_6448707385667854011_n.jpg?oh=0c8ed9a26295a8140cf6d688bd55e2bd&oe=58D979AF)

You have to roll out the tanks to stop a riot just one time and no one ever lets you forget it.   :(

;)

While I know it doesn't matter in the slightest with Facebook memes, but I couldn't imagine a way that the rioting that has occurred during the Obama administration was worse than the LA Riots in 1992 or the various riots in 1968; yet not as bad as Detroit in 1967.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2017, 05:21:46 PM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15894419_10154043521851237_1189966443785074151_n.jpg?oh=37124dfcd3c02d92ec10d784693b56af&oe=58D93639)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 13, 2017, 05:23:05 PM
Yeah, boycotting the Academy Awards sure will show 'em!

Instead, maybe the deplorables could spend the time going to a movie?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 13, 2017, 05:24:04 PM
I boycott them every year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2017, 05:49:11 PM
 :lol:  are Deplorables even invited to the Oscars? Isn't it just the Academy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 13, 2017, 07:13:48 PM
Guys boycotting really works trust me
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 13, 2017, 07:23:03 PM
Clinton calls a bunch of racists deplorable, and the Right turns around and says "yep, that's us!  We're deplorable!".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 13, 2017, 07:30:04 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdr35ey0x3otoq.cloudfront.net%2Fuploads%2Fdefault%2Foriginal%2F3X%2F9%2Fa%2F9a3e559aa351941f3f3228fb6e18e9e7685da60c.png&hash=511924724b4f7eeaa553966b14290f42e0a042b8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 13, 2017, 07:32:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 13, 2017, 05:49:11 PM
:lol:  are Deplorables even invited to the Oscars? Isn't it just the Academy?

They don't even know how to spell it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 13, 2017, 11:42:17 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 13, 2017, 02:41:14 PM

While I know it doesn't matter in the slightest with Facebook memes, but I couldn't imagine a way that the rioting that has occurred during the Obama administration was worse than the LA Riots in 1992 or the various riots in 1968; yet not as bad as Detroit in 1967.

Virtually everything in there is either a lie or facts misrepresented. It is why Memes are terrible. They just really make me sad more than anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 14, 2017, 11:35:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 13, 2017, 11:42:17 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 13, 2017, 02:41:14 PM

While I know it doesn't matter in the slightest with Facebook memes, but I couldn't imagine a way that the rioting that has occurred during the Obama administration was worse than the LA Riots in 1992 or the various riots in 1968; yet not as bad as Detroit in 1967.

Virtually everything in there is either a lie or facts misrepresented. It is why Memes are terrible. They just really make me sad more than anything.

Why are online posters/bumper stickers called "memes" nowadays, when the word "meme" already has a meaning?  Does anyone know where this started, and when?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 14, 2017, 12:11:07 PM
From what some (very) cursory googling turns up, it seems Godwin (of Godwin's Law) is widely credited with first applying the term meme to the internet in this Wired article:

https://www.wired.com/1994/10/godwin-if-2/

I'm guessing that over time people saw the term "meme" applied to widely spread "online posters/bumper stickers" (as you call them, I have no better word for it), and then going and applying it to all such content.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 14, 2017, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 14, 2017, 12:11:07 PM
From what some (very) cursory googling turns up, it seems Godwin (of Godwin's Law) is widely credited with first applying the term meme to the internet in this Wired article:

https://www.wired.com/1994/10/godwin-if-2/

I'm guessing that over time people saw the term "meme" applied to widely spread "online posters/bumper stickers" (as you call them, I have no better word for it), and then going and applying it to all such content.

The term "meme" was invented by Richard Dawkins, of evolutionary biology fame, to describe ideas or behaviors that spread through a culture, and evolved over time, by a survival of the fittest process.  "All your ____ are belong to us" is a meme.  It is used by people who are unaware of its origins and have never seen the AYB video.  These incredibly dumb posters and bumper stickers don't even last a day.  They aren't memes, they are brainfarts.

I'm just curious as to where and when people started confusing them with actual memes.  Perhaps the popularity of meme generators creating meme-based graphics ("one does not simply ___ into ___ " or "_____, Motherfucker, Do You Speak It") made people think that memes were things that looked like that, even when they were not ideas that caught on and spread?  But hypothesizing about how it happened doesn't help with where and when it happened.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on January 14, 2017, 04:24:08 PM
Mislabeling something as a meme is a meme
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 14, 2017, 05:15:06 PM
Quote from: PDH on January 14, 2017, 04:24:08 PM
Mislabeling something as a meme is a meme

beaten by pdh :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 14, 2017, 05:17:20 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 14, 2017, 05:15:06 PM
beaten by pdh :(

Is that a meme? Should it be?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 14, 2017, 06:52:18 PM
The scientific theory of memes has been dead for about a decade.  I suspect the use of the word "memes" comes from the Dawkin's cult, those people didn't have a lot going for them to begin with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 15, 2017, 10:26:01 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15940338_615471378648865_1584158422528542727_n.jpg?oh=1a9fff9ecae6d5e3bd85d33f4d6d45a4&oe=58DBD051)



(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15965558_10154754362785575_3623964550363163337_n.png?oh=750d0f60c25d64130e26cd8dd4aaf16c&oe=5918F1E8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 15, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
Curious: if nobody cares about celebrity, why does it sell so much with the mouthbreathers? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 15, 2017, 11:05:24 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 15, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
Curious: if nobody cares about celebrity, why does it sell so much with the mouthbreathers?

Nothing much funnier than someone sharing his opinion that no one cares about someone else's opinion.  Self-awareness is obviously not a Conservative Value.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on January 15, 2017, 11:52:10 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 15, 2017, 11:05:24 AM
Nothing much funnier than someone sharing his opinion that no one cares about someone else's opinion.  Self-awareness is obviously not a Conservative Value.

Lack of self-awareness from a political party that repeatedly tries to legislate a black-and-white morality?  Shocking! :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 15, 2017, 11:59:01 AM
I find the lack of self awareness indeed funny.

"Shut up, actors, nobody cares what you think!"

1h later ...

"I agree with James Woods, he knows what's what!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 15, 2017, 12:01:26 PM
"Ted Nugent says celebrities suck! You go, Ted!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on January 16, 2017, 10:06:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 14, 2017, 06:52:18 PM
The scientific theory of memes has been dead for about a decade.  I suspect the use of the word "memes" comes from the Dawkin's cult, those people didn't have a lot going for them to begin with.
Are you saying that ideas don't spread through a population?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 16, 2017, 10:19:54 AM
He is saying he hates Dawkins and atheists, so anything they propose he is against. Don't take the bait.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on January 16, 2017, 10:28:09 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 16, 2017, 10:19:54 AM
He is saying he hates Dawkins and atheists, so anything they propose he is against. Don't take the bait.
No this is something he rants about on a regular basis. It's fairly amusing. It's like saying genes don't exist because someone had an incorrect theory about them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 16, 2017, 11:36:46 AM
Quote from: Maximus on January 16, 2017, 10:06:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 14, 2017, 06:52:18 PM
The scientific theory of memes has been dead for about a decade.  I suspect the use of the word "memes" comes from the Dawkin's cult, those people didn't have a lot going for them to begin with.
Are you saying that ideas don't spread through a population?

No, I didn't say that.  People understood that ideas move through a population well before Dawkins came up with memes.  The scientific journal of Memes has been defunct for about a decade.  No peer-reviewed journal, no science. While the rest of the world has moved on, it remains alive amongst cranks, logical positivists, and pseudo-intellectuals on the internet

Ideas exist, memes do not.  Meme has meaning beyond simply "idea".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 16, 2017, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: Maximus on January 16, 2017, 10:28:09 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 16, 2017, 10:19:54 AM
He is saying he hates Dawkins and atheists, so anything they propose he is against. Don't take the bait.
No this is something he rants about on a regular basis. It's fairly amusing. It's like saying genes don't exist because someone had an incorrect theory about them.

More like saying "genes don't exist because Gregor Mendel disliked cauliflower."  If Raz doesn't like the messenger, he refuses to accept the existence of the message.  He'll argue that memes don't exist unless they can be shown to be scientifically based.  That idea is absurd, as can easily be demonstrated by the observation that, e.g., religion exists, even though it cannot be associated with a disprovable scientific theory.

As Berkut advises, don't take the bait.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 16, 2017, 01:54:22 PM
That's rich from someone who refuses to recognize my posts. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on January 16, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 16, 2017, 11:36:46 AM
No, I didn't say that.  People understood that ideas move through a population well before Dawkins came up with memes.  The scientific journal of Memes has been defunct for about a decade.  No peer-reviewed journal, no science. While the rest of the world has moved on, it remains alive amongst cranks, logical positivists, and pseudo-intellectuals on the internet

Ideas exist, memes do not.  Meme has meaning beyond simply "idea".
So a journal goes defunct and suddenly a concept with the same name doesn't exist? :lol: Memes are widely referred to in information and cognitive sciences today. Ergo they exist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 16, 2017, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: Maximus on January 16, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 16, 2017, 11:36:46 AM
No, I didn't say that.  People understood that ideas move through a population well before Dawkins came up with memes.  The scientific journal of Memes has been defunct for about a decade.  No peer-reviewed journal, no science. While the rest of the world has moved on, it remains alive amongst cranks, logical positivists, and pseudo-intellectuals on the internet

Ideas exist, memes do not.  Meme has meaning beyond simply "idea".
So a journal goes defunct and suddenly a concept with the same name doesn't exist? :lol: Memes are widely referred to in information and cognitive sciences today. Ergo they exist.

Indeed.  What is sad is that the poor academics don't even know their subject no longer exists!  :(

Rinkel, Sean (2013): "Crisis Memes: The Importance of Templatability to Internet Culture and Freedom of Expression" is quite recent and looks interesting.
http://www.academia.edu/2439613/Crisis_Memes_The_Importance_of_Templatability_to_Internet_Culture_and_Freedom_of_Expression (http://www.academia.edu/2439613/Crisis_Memes_The_Importance_of_Templatability_to_Internet_Culture_and_Freedom_of_Expression)

If only Raz would get out of his Ivory Basement sometimes!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 16, 2017, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: Maximus on January 16, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 16, 2017, 11:36:46 AM
No, I didn't say that.  People understood that ideas move through a population well before Dawkins came up with memes.  The scientific journal of Memes has been defunct for about a decade.  No peer-reviewed journal, no science. While the rest of the world has moved on, it remains alive amongst cranks, logical positivists, and pseudo-intellectuals on the internet

Ideas exist, memes do not.  Meme has meaning beyond simply "idea".
So a journal goes defunct and suddenly a concept with the same name doesn't exist? :lol: Memes are widely referred to in information and cognitive sciences today. Ergo they exist.

A peer-reviewed journal is the indication of an actual science.  The one more Memes closed up a decade ago.  Think of "memes" as similar to "Race".  Race is referred to in all sorts of sciences, but the world has no scientific meaning.  That of course doesn't stop the idea being used by the public at large or assorted cranks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 16, 2017, 09:42:09 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 16, 2017, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: Maximus on January 16, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 16, 2017, 11:36:46 AM
No, I didn't say that.  People understood that ideas move through a population well before Dawkins came up with memes.  The scientific journal of Memes has been defunct for about a decade.  No peer-reviewed journal, no science. While the rest of the world has moved on, it remains alive amongst cranks, logical positivists, and pseudo-intellectuals on the internet

Ideas exist, memes do not.  Meme has meaning beyond simply "idea".
So a journal goes defunct and suddenly a concept with the same name doesn't exist? :lol: Memes are widely referred to in information and cognitive sciences today. Ergo they exist.

Indeed.  What is sad is that the poor academics don't even know their subject no longer exists!  :(

Rinkel, Sean (2013): "Crisis Memes: The Importance of Templatability to Internet Culture and Freedom of Expression" is quite recent and looks interesting.
http://www.academia.edu/2439613/Crisis_Memes_The_Importance_of_Templatability_to_Internet_Culture_and_Freedom_of_Expression (http://www.academia.edu/2439613/Crisis_Memes_The_Importance_of_Templatability_to_Internet_Culture_and_Freedom_of_Expression)

If only Raz would get out of his Ivory Basement sometimes!

Published in the Journal of Popular culture? :yeahright:  Here's the funny part, you once agreed with my position.  I remember you saying that it was a theory of the mind not a science.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on January 16, 2017, 11:14:36 PM
I refuse to argue with Raz in stupid mode. 
I refuse to argue with Raz in stupid mode. 
I refuse to argue with Raz in stupid mode. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 17, 2017, 11:57:17 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16105658_633492640187013_1913267847874012994_n.jpg?oh=03e87b92d102a1a73ee984472e643b3b&oe=5906E38A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 17, 2017, 12:02:56 PM
That's the thing I have most trouble understanding. That this billionaire playboy who stands to make more money than ever before is supposedly doing it not for power and wealth but for the common people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 17, 2017, 12:06:50 PM
Quote from: Liep on January 17, 2017, 12:02:56 PM
That's the thing I have most trouble understanding. That this billionaire playboy who stands to make more money than ever before is supposedly doing it not for power and wealth but for the common people.

To quote Mencken:

Quote"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2017, 12:50:37 PM
Quote from: Liep on January 17, 2017, 12:02:56 PM
That's the thing I have most trouble understanding. That this billionaire playboy who stands to make more money than ever before is supposedly doing it not for power and wealth but for the common people.

Pointing out the irrationality of Trump supporters is beating a dead horse.

What I'm more interested in, if it happens at all, is the process by which they start to turn against him.  I suspect it will be some symbolic event that causes them to flip their narrative from champion of the people to just another Washington insider.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 17, 2017, 12:52:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2017, 12:50:37 PM
Quote from: Liep on January 17, 2017, 12:02:56 PM
That's the thing I have most trouble understanding. That this billionaire playboy who stands to make more money than ever before is supposedly doing it not for power and wealth but for the common people.

Pointing out the irrationality of Trump supporters is beating a dead horse.

What I'm more interested in, if it happens at all, is the process by which they start to turn against him.  I suspect it will be some symbolic event that causes them to flip their narrative from champion of the people to just another Washington insider.

No, I think it'll be the massive recession that gets triggered by his raising tariffs on everyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2017, 12:59:06 PM
Quote from: Liep on January 17, 2017, 12:02:56 PM
That's the thing I have most trouble understanding. That this billionaire playboy who stands to make more money than ever before is supposedly doing it not for power and wealth but for the common people.

Who the fuck supposedly said that?  Certainly not Donald.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 17, 2017, 01:01:35 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2017, 12:59:06 PM
Quote from: Liep on January 17, 2017, 12:02:56 PM
That's the thing I have most trouble understanding. That this billionaire playboy who stands to make more money than ever before is supposedly doing it not for power and wealth but for the common people.

Who the fuck supposedly said that?  Certainly not Donald.

Trump supporters vibe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 17, 2017, 01:01:48 PM
His followers already had to go through the "fuck what the world says, he is awesome" phase, heck, by the primaries.

There will be a sizeable group of people who will always support him now, no matter what. You can only hope the opposition will be able to mobilise enough discontents to counter that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 17, 2017, 01:02:30 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 17, 2017, 11:57:17 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16105658_633492640187013_1913267847874012994_n.jpg?oh=03e87b92d102a1a73ee984472e643b3b&oe=5906E38A)

How can somebody be so worshipping him that creates this.... thing. FFS.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 17, 2017, 01:13:34 PM
Quote from: Tamas on January 17, 2017, 01:02:30 PM
How can somebody be so worshipping him that creates this.... thing. FFS.

It's people who revere Trump like many revered Obama when he won the first election, and who were as afraid of Obama as, well, thinking people are worried about Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 17, 2017, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Tamas on January 17, 2017, 01:01:48 PM
His followers already had to go through the "fuck what the world says, he is awesome" phase, heck, by the primaries.

There will be a sizeable group of people who will always support him now, no matter what. You can only hope the opposition will be able to mobilise enough discontents to counter that.

Don't oppose him too much tho, we really, really don't want him to quit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 17, 2017, 09:18:06 PM
If you are my friend or considered me a friend at some point in your life please read this. I know its long but it's so so important for my well being:
I have been labeled a dangerous transphobic person by some members of the queer community of Minneapolis. I AM NOT A TRANS EXCLUSIONARY RADICAL FEMINIST. I AM NOT TRANSPHOBIC IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM.

This conclusion of my character made overnight, has stemmed from an open call out letter from me to Erica a couple days ago. Erica is A non-Binary person I was friends with. Erica repeatedly broke emotional and sexual boundaries with a friend of mine and used their friendship as a tool to manipulate them. My public letter to Erica declaring Ericas intentions of "unpure and good"& "fraud of natural love" was me letting Erica know and everyone else know, that I knew Erica abused my friend repeatedly. with out actively slandering Ericas image by releasing details of the situation.

I am here acknowledging I have misgendered Erica for the first time in my life. I am here to share with anyone I know; it was transphobic of me to have said Ericas response to my original post (posted in the images here) "Were those of a typical aggressive white socialized male". Please be aware this has been the only time i have ever misgendered them and I apologize. Does misgendering someone a single time warrant me as a "Dangerous trans-exclusionary radical feminist?" According to some members of mothership and members of the mpls queer community, it does.

Over the last couple of days I have received threats of being physically abused by multiple people associated with Erica and Mothership, with Erica giving out my personal information so someone directly affiliated with Mothership can "find them and tase them". Them being me.
Never in my entire life would I have ever thought what I would've called the "safest space in Minneapolis" (my own quote)would actively join forces and plan to physically harm my well being, considering I used to attend madam before mothership was formed. I considered Madam a safe space for me as a Queer AFAB woman and at the time, years ago, it was. I cannot say the same for Mothership.

Erica, People who actively supported and engaged hate, some members of mothership have triggered my ptsd and have caused me unbelievable fear and stress. Labeling me transphobic for misgendering Erica a single time in regards of me letting them know I knew they (Erica) sexually and emotionally broke boundaries with someone I care about. I was attacked twice randomly on the streets of portland Oregon by men. Because of that and other traumatizing events through out my life, I have severe PTSD. I have attended trauma therapy for years to try regain peace within myself and trust in others.

Having multiple people threaten to hurt me physically has triggered my PTSD beyond imaginable. I am wondering why this abuse is okay and why no one has made any attempt condemn violence against women, which would seemingly save my life at this point. Having this word attached to my name for misgendering Erica once is putting my life in danger and warrants physical abuse against me. I have shared with trusted and love friends how scared I am to leave my house or even think about attending a show in fear of getting attacked.

It has been brought to my attention that my post about "needing a penis in order to be validated" has been thought to be directed to erica to fit the narrative that i am a hate filled transphobic person. In realit,y the post was directed towards Alex white and Alex Whites refusal to acknowledge the abuse their band member inflicted on me a year ago. This information wasn't something I was ready to publicize and share but at this point seems necessary to clarify for the my well being. This penis post was never ever about erica or targeted to erica, how ever, I understand now that using the word "Penis" in this post was transphobic and I apologize.

Malcolm of mothership has expressed to me that the sexual and emotional abuse THEY KNOW erica inflicted on my friend is not equally as bad as misgendering but less important. This logic terrifies me.

I have been ostracized from the queer community, had my life threatened by members of the queer community and told directedly from Malcolm of mother ship (Queer "Safe Space") misgendering Erica is not equal but a more dangerous offense then the abuse Erica committed..... I am genuinely afraid of Malcolm, Erica, Alex, Catherine and as well as everyone else who participated in this as whole for their support and involvement in this entire situation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 17, 2017, 09:20:15 PM
I don't think queer is PC. Just guessing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 17, 2017, 09:20:50 PM
Sorry, LaCroix, but I don't qualify to read that.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 17, 2017, 09:22:25 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 17, 2017, 09:20:15 PM
I don't think queer is PC. Just guessing.

nah, queer is all good. it's what one of the Qs mean in LGBTT2QQIIAAP
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 17, 2017, 09:25:20 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 17, 2017, 09:20:50 PM
Sorry, LaCroix, but I don't qualify to read that.  :(

:D good one
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 17, 2017, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 17, 2017, 09:20:15 PM
I don't think queer is PC. Just guessing.

Queer has been reclaimed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 17, 2017, 09:36:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 17, 2017, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 17, 2017, 09:20:15 PM
I don't think queer is PC. Just guessing.

Queer has been reclaimed.

Isn't that derogatory? Seems like it would be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 17, 2017, 09:43:40 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 17, 2017, 09:36:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 17, 2017, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 17, 2017, 09:20:15 PM
I don't think queer is PC. Just guessing.

Queer has been reclaimed.

Isn't that derogatory? Seems like it would be.

Not when used self-referentially. Queer Eye, Queer As Folk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 18, 2017, 12:55:27 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 17, 2017, 09:20:50 PM
Sorry, LaCroix, but I don't qualify to read that.  :(

Cliff notes: La Croix is a lesbian from Minneapolis who made the  trans community turn on him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 01:15:11 AM
I'm having some doubts that La Croix was describing himself.  He doesn't usually capitalize words properly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 18, 2017, 04:29:36 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15977722_10158495404660725_6355923365544240802_n.jpg?oh=efc2974ad6596213ca68fc05997007b4&oe=5905E789)

https://gop.com/stand-with-team-trump/?utm_campaign=GOP_administration_stand-with-team-trump&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=20170113_GOP_administration_stand-with-team-trump_fb-link_banner-1
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 18, 2017, 07:00:09 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15894295_1164176456971380_1182226872572728882_n.jpg?oh=1a67c8a23f6631c09e73f9e237aa354b&oe=5910BDFB)

QuoteComment yes and share if you agree that Native American history should be taught properly in schools.

Well, it looks like a map taken from a history book.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 18, 2017, 07:17:22 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on January 18, 2017, 07:00:09 AM


QuoteComment yes and share if you agree that Native American history should be taught properly in schools.



Sure, I agree that Native American history should be taught properly in schools, just like any other subject.  But just like every other subject, it is rarely is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 18, 2017, 07:22:05 AM
This seems like a reasonable consensus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 18, 2017, 07:51:47 AM
One problem:  They were almost all illiterate and thus wrote no history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 18, 2017, 08:01:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 18, 2017, 07:51:47 AM
One problem:  They were almost all illiterate and thus wrote no history.

Somebody reacted in a similar way in the FB feed: "does the poster of this pic realise this map comes from historians (not Amerindians) and from a history book?".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 18, 2017, 09:23:51 AM
http://conservativetribune.com/benghazi-survivor-hits-courageous/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=janbrewer&utm_content=2017-01-17&utm_campaign=can

QuoteBenghazi Survivor Challenges "Courageous" Rosie, Other Anti-Trumpers to Try Serving as Military, Cops

The word "courageous" gets tossed around a lot in very wrong contexts. Case in point: Hollywood celebrities like Meryl Streep or Rosie O'Donnell who make an ostentatious show of "standing up" to conservatives. This is doubly true when said conservative is Donald J. Trump.

However, one individual who actually merits the title of "courageous" — Benghazi survivor Kris Paronto, a former Army Ranger — is sick of the false comparisons. In an interview with the Independent Journal Review, Paranto had a challenge for "actors pretending to be someone else" — try actually putting on a uniform.

Paronto, whose role in Benghazi was chronicled in the movie "13 Hours," began by criticizing President Obama and his fealty to the cult of celebrity.

"(Obama) turned the position of commander in chief into a pop culture thing and pulled away from what the office of the president is all about — leadership," Paronto said.

"He wasn't supposed to be a celebrity, he was supposed to be a dignified leader. Still, Hollywood was all over celebrity Obama."

Paronto then criticized the celebrities who are being lionized by liberals for dropping out of Trump's inauguration festivities. "You're a monkey and somebody is turning the crank," he said.

"The only time I have a real issue with this at all is when these people are looked at as role models. When they back out, and publications like (The) New York Times or CNN put them on a pedestal for dropping out, it does a major disservice to Americans," Paronto said.

"They're not role models. There's nothing courageous about sitting in your $5 million dollar mansion and looking down upon us. It's arrogant, it's pompous, and it's not bravery."

The Benghazi survivor then threw down the gauntlet at liberal activists in Hollywood.

"They're all actors pretending to be someone else. Just because you played a police officer or military veteran, doesn't mean you understand what it's like to be in our shoes," Paronto said.

"So you know what, Meryl Streep, stop putting others down and go do something else. Be like Pat Tillman, drop everything you're doing and put your life on the line. Robert De Niro, you played a cop in the movies, go be a cop on the streets.

"The same principle applies to these other celebrities. You wore a uniform as a costume. Try putting one on to serve your country."

Paronto made it clear who he thought should really be getting called courageous.

"The real role models are the guy who goes and puts his life on the line for his country, the police officer who jumps in front of a bullet, and the EMT who treats the wounded on the scene, people who put others before themselves," he concluded. "Those are the true celebrities."

We couldn't agree more. Thanks for standing up for real celebrities, Mr. Paronto.

Please like and share on Facebook and Twitter if you agree with what this Benghazi survivor said.

What do you think about what this Benghazi survivor said? Scroll down to comment below!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 09:27:34 AM
How is calling somebody 'courageous' a false comparison? I mean even if I don't think actors grandstanding is particularly courageous simply calling somebody courageous is not comparing them to battlefield veterans. Talk about a strawman.

And Trump is 100% the cult of celebrity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 18, 2017, 09:35:11 AM
You know in Hungary, Orban has mannerism (that he also overplays heavily) very similar to the kind of rural morons that worship him.

So that at least makes a lot of sense. They can absolutely see it in a way that somebody from among them (who he really is, if you ignore a decade of grooming for future leadership roles by the communist party) is in power. Even if I deplore them, I see the reasoning behind their deplorable choice.

But WTF can white trash, and non-rich people in general, relate to in Trump? He is such an archetype of a narcissistic asshole raised in wealth and privilege, that it makes me cringe. He is everything his supporters loudly blame for the troubles of the world.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F004%2F592%2Fmy-brain-is-full-of-fuck.jpg&hash=3fbd12d9bd6667a653f70bcfb9fe6c96d941b38b)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 09:36:47 AM
Yeah, Trump supporters calling out celebrities for this shit is hilarious.

I fundamentally actually agree with the Ranger dude, at least in broad strokes. But I don't blame celebrities for speaking their mind, they have every right to do so.

I blame Americans for giving a shit about what Meryl Streep thinks about things she has no particular qualification around.

But then, the right has been eroding respect for thought, professionalism, and competency for a couple decades now, so we get Rick Perry as head of the DOE. So there you go.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 09:51:48 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 18, 2017, 09:35:11 AM
But WTF can white trash, and non-rich people in general, relate to in Trump? He is such an archetype of a narcissistic asshole raised in wealth and privilege, that it makes me cringe. He is everything his supporters loudly blame for the troubles of the world.
I said this a while back, but most every person's rational brain has an off switch.  Appeal to something on a deeply emotional level, and these people literally turn insane when it comes to the person appealing to them.  It doesn't just work on deplorables, it works on everyone, although the non-deplorables are more resistant. 

Once those people turn insane, they don't even have any cognitive dissonance to contend with, they just don't even think at all.  Try to make them think and they'll just joke/troll/parrot/etc.  That's why it's so hard to get any Trump supporter here to be honest about their sympathies and debate openly:  they'll either stop being a Trump supporter as they quickly realize their position is untenable, or they'll just become catatonic trollers like derspiess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 09:57:54 AM
Quote from: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 09:51:48 AMOnce those people turn insane

what do you think made 40% to half the nation turn insane? how does this affect their productivity at work?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 09:57:54 AM
Quote from: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 09:51:48 AMOnce those people turn insane

what do you think made 40% to half the nation turn insane? how does this affect their productivity at work?

We have about 60% workforce participation so maybe it doesn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:00:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 09:59:34 AMWe have about 60% workforce participation so maybe it doesn't.

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 10:00:57 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 09:57:54 AM
Quote from: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 09:51:48 AMOnce those people turn insane

what do you think made 40% to half the nation turn insane? how does this affect their productivity at work?
What made you quote me out of context?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:04:52 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 18, 2017, 09:35:11 AM
But WTF can white trash, and non-rich people in general, relate to in Trump? He is such an archetype of a narcissistic asshole raised in wealth and privilege, that it makes me cringe. He is everything his supporters loudly blame for the troubles of the world.

It's not that hard to see. He speaks his mind and loudly calls bullshit when he sees it.  No filter.  They absolutely love that, because that's how they act when they're amongst themselves.  It also helps that he is saying what most of them are thinking. 

You guys need to stop assuming that all poor people are natural socialists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
overlooked the earlier part re: when it comes to the person appealing to them, but that doesn't answer the first question. if they're now insane and literally do not think at all about anything relating to trump, then what made this happen?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:06:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:04:52 AMIt's not that hard to see. He speaks his mind and loudly calls bullshit when he sees it.  No filter.  It also helps that he is saying what most of them are thinking.

it's certainly hard to see for some people. look at dguller's nonsense
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 10:08:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:04:52 AM
You guys need to stop assuming that all poor people are natural socialists.

Hey! I don't think ALL poor people are national socialists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
overlooked the earlier part re: when it comes to the person appealing to them, but that doesn't answer the first question. if they're now insane and literally do not think at all about anything relating to trump, then what made this happen?
Short answer?  Intolerance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:10:14 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:06:41 AM
look at dguller's nonsense

I usually try not to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 10:11:13 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:06:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:04:52 AMIt's not that hard to see. He speaks his mind and loudly calls bullshit when he sees it.  No filter.  It also helps that he is saying what most of them are thinking.

it's certainly hard to see for some people. look at dguller's nonsense
You've got no standing to call anyone's posts nonsense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 10:08:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:04:52 AM
You guys need to stop assuming that all poor people are natural socialists.

Hey! I don't think ALL poor people are national socialists.

As soon as I typed that I figured someone would make that connection.  Just surprised it took over three minutes :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:14:18 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:06:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:04:52 AMIt's not that hard to see. He speaks his mind and loudly calls bullshit when he sees it.  No filter.  It also helps that he is saying what most of them are thinking.

it's certainly hard to see for some people. look at dguller's nonsense

Are you guys *intentionally* acting in exactly the manner DG described in order to make some kind of point?

Trump does not "loudly call bullshit" when he sees it. He loudly bitches and complains when anyone criticizes him. That isn't remotely the same thing at all.

His entire message is centered strictly around himself and total populism. "I am going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" isn't calling out obvious bullshit nobody else is talking about. "Let's register Muslims" isn't calling out bullshit. "NBC is publishing fake news!" is not calling out bullshit. "Lets cut taxes on me and my super rich friends" is not calling out bullshit. "Lets put a certifiable moron in charge of the DOE" is not calling out bullshit.

Now, you guys wonder why you get crap, but the examples of where he is actually calling out bullshit, is when he is defining as bullshit things that only dumbshits thinks is true. Like denial of climate change, or spiceys favorite "Obama isn't an American". Is that the bullshit you are talking about? Bullshit like "Hillary should not be in jail"?

You guys are literally making shit up in your head in order to shoehorn him into what you wish he actually was, rather than what he clearly keeps proving himself to be, over and over and over again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 10:14:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:04:52 AM
It's not that hard to see. He speaks his mind and loudly calls bullshit when he sees it.  No filter.  They absolutely love that, because that's how they act when they're amongst themselves.  It also helps that he is saying what most of them are thinking. 

You guys need to stop assuming that all poor people are natural socialists.

I generally liked this post.  The one part i had trouble with is the bolded bit, which suggests to me that he is actually right.  Did you mean that, or something else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on January 18, 2017, 10:16:24 AM
Does Trump wear contacts?  I assume there is bullshit on them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:18:26 AM
I don't think intolerance is the reason behind trump's success. as was often reported during the election, a lot of trump supporters didn't care about what he said, because they knew it was bullshit. instead, it was more like what derspiess said. they felt trump was on their side and would fight for them. that's not intolerance, insane, or literally being unable to think. it's maybe "wrong" they felt that way, but many people are "wrong" about the way they feel. the nutso anti-science liberals are similarly "wrong," etc. same with the anti-finance liberals. there are many groups in the US who rely on feelings over facts. in fact, everyone at some point relies on feelings over fact.

your whole argument is relying on your feelings about trump supporters over the actual facts about them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:23:36 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 10:14:55 AMI generally liked this post.  The one part i had trouble with is the bolded bit, which suggests to me that he is actually right.  Did you mean that, or something else?

I could be wrong, but I took derspiess's comment to mean he didn't come off as a typical politician who might play around the bush. trump came out and said strong things about all sorts of topics. he was aggressive as hell, and some people loved that about him. just look at his core supporters who kept telling him he needed to be even more aggressive during the campaign whenever he started cooling down a bit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 10:25:00 AM
So they knew everything was bullshit but expected him to fight for them?

Quotethe nutso anti-science liberals are similarly "wrong,"

How the fuck is that reassuring?

Quotesame with the anti-finance liberals.

Again how the fuck is that reassuring?

Quotethere are many groups in the US who rely on feelings over facts. in fact, everyone at some point relies on feelings over fact.

So?

Quoteyour whole argument is relying on your feelings about trump supporters over the actual facts about them.

Your facts about them are pretty damn horrifying. Anti-vaxxers (hardly exclusively left wing btw) and socialist nutcases are supposed to reassure me somehow?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:25:47 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 10:14:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:04:52 AM
It's not that hard to see. He speaks his mind and loudly calls bullshit when he sees it.  No filter.  They absolutely love that, because that's how they act when they're amongst themselves.  It also helps that he is saying what most of them are thinking. 

You guys need to stop assuming that all poor people are natural socialists.

I generally liked this post.  The one part i had trouble with is the bolded bit, which suggests to me that he is actually right.  Did you mean that, or something else?

I meant he was calling bullshit.  Not that what he calls bullshit is always actual bullshit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 10:27:36 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:25:47 AM
I meant he was calling bullshit.  Not that what he calls bullshit is always actual bullshit.

So, like, he accuses lots of people of lying?  That kind of calling bullshit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 10:25:00 AM
So they knew everything was bullshit but expected him to fight for them?

How the fuck is that reassuring?

Again how the fuck is that reassuring?

So?

Your facts about them are pretty damn horrifying. Anti-vaxxers (hardly exclusively left wing btw) and socialist nutcases are supposed to reassure me somehow?

they knew stuff like his syria plan, the tax audits, his defense against the sex accusations, etc., were bs. they largely knew when he lied, they just didn't care, because at the end of the day he was trump -- the outsider, and fuck it why not. they understood he was a risk. they were willing to gamble on the hope that maybe he'd do good by them. they saw hillary as being absolutely against them, and even if trump flaked, there was still the possibility he would work to help them.

now, this goes against The Facts, but berniebots did something very similar, and do a whole lot of other groups today and throughout history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:32:14 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 10:27:36 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:25:47 AM
I meant he was calling bullshit.  Not that what he calls bullshit is always actual bullshit.

So, like, he accuses lots of people of lying?  That kind of calling bullshit?

Pretty much.  And it helps when he's calling out people this group doesn't like.  It's like he's standing up for them.  He's not, but they feel like he is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:34:07 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:14:18 AM
You guys are literally making shit up in your head in order to shoehorn him into what you wish he actually was,

That's an interesting thing for you to be accusing others of doing :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:14:18 AMYou guys are literally making shit up in your head in order to shoehorn him into what you wish he actually was, rather than what he clearly keeps proving himself to be, over and over and over again.

you're missing the point of my and probably derspiess's posts on this topic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:46:51 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:34:07 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:14:18 AM
You guys are literally making shit up in your head in order to shoehorn him into what you wish he actually was,

That's an interesting thing for you to be accusing others of doing :lol:

Yes, the I am rubber you are glue defense is pretty unsurprising from you.

Here is the thing though - I understand why you are going to bat for him. You like his "no bullshit, stand up for my oppressed white demographic" populism.

What motive would I have to despise him, if in fact he was NOT worthy of despite? I am not some hard core Dem like dguller. I am a classic libertarian centrist. The idea of a non-ideological outsider to either party running on a practical, get shit done platform ought to be incredibly appealing to me. And in fact a non-deplorable Trump who would be a true outsider to the DC machine that I despise would be incredibly attractive to me, and would have my vote (certainly over someone as grossly unappealing as Hillary) with ease.

Trump ought to be my nearly perfect candidate from the standpoint of ideology around non-populist topics.

I hate his guts because of his populist and intolerant embrace of the very lowest common denominator of the American electorate. Authoritarianism is dangerous and opposed to what I see as the truly core American values. I despise him because in an effort to convince people like you that he will oppose another party with the hatred and intolerance you guys have been brainwashed into thinking defines your faction, he is actually opposing the very foundation of the American political ideals that both parties ought to treasure and protect.

You can post fat pictures all you like, but every time you do you just reinforce what a shallow commitment you have to those values - that you are happy to embrace an authoritarian populist if it lets you make fun of the hated liberals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:48:15 AM
Berkut troll attempt: failed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:49:05 AM
I suspect I am actually pretty easy to troll. Shrug. Congratulations alt-spicey?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:46:51 AMHere is the thing though - I understand why you are going to bat for him. You like his "no bullshit, stand up for my oppressed white demographic" populism.

explaining why people like trump means I support trump?

anyway, I think you hate his guts this |----| much in part because of the languish echo chamber during the election. hillary had to win because oh my god if she lost... your opinion of him as president was formed in an environment that demonized trump. so, you have this image of him that you haven't yet shaken off. it is possible this image will prove legit, but there's been enough for me to suggest that it was pretty exaggerated
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 10:56:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 10:04:52 AM
It's not that hard to see. He speaks his mind and loudly calls bullshit when he sees it.  No filter.  They absolutely love that, because that's how they act when they're amongst themselves.  It also helps that he is saying what most of them are thinking. 

You guys need to stop assuming that all poor people are natural socialists.

I guess that's what is hard to see:  what makes anyone think that Trump "speaks his mind" and "loudly calls bullshit when he sees it?"  The fact that he claims he is speaking his mind and loudly calling bullshit?  He's a proven serial liar, so why take him at his word?

Trump looks far more like he is speaking what he thinks his listeners want to be on his mind (which is why he is so wildly inconsistent between audiences) and loudly calls bullshit on things he has made up.  He didn't 'see' the "bullshit' of Muslims celebrating in the streets after 9/11, and everyone with even a sliver of intelligence knows that he just made that up because it fit the narrative he thought his audience wanted to hear. 

Maybe we need to stop thinking that people have any critical thinking skills.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:59:39 AM
How I talk about Trump on Languish is a reflection of my views on Trump. I am sure Languish has some influence on those views, but they are not primary by any means.

I am quite capable of forming my views on Trump without any assistance from Languish. And I think my views in general in my time on Languish have pretty obviously NOT been aligned with some Languish consensus, if such a thing actually exists.

And no, *I've* explained why people like Trump.

Your going to bat for Trump over and over again and excusing everything he does no matter how egregious is why it is obvious you support Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 18, 2017, 11:00:11 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 10:56:58 AM
Trump looks far more like he is speaking what he thinks his listeners want to be on his mind (which is why he is so wildly inconsistent between audiences) and loudly calls bullshit on things he has made up.  He didn't 'see' the "bullshit' of Muslims celebrating in the streets after 9/11, and everyone with even a sliver of intelligence knows that he just made that up because it fit the narrative he thought his audience wanted to hear. 

:huh: That's my point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:03:19 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:59:39 AM
How I talk about Trump on Languish is a reflection of my views on Trump. I am sure Languish has some influence on those views, but they are not primary by any means.

I am quite capable of forming my views on Trump without any assistance from Languish. And I think my views in general in my time on Languish have pretty obviously NOT been aligned with some Languish consensus, if such a thing actually exists.

And no, *I've* explained why people like Trump.

Your going to bat for Trump over and over again and excusing everything he does no matter how egregious is why it is obvious you support Trump.

I thought about adding (media?) after "languish" re "languish echo chamber," because there were some articles out there that really painted trump in a terrible way -- asserting the worst interpretation of whatever thing he said/did that day. an image of who trump is was certainly created throughout the election. yes, obviously he wasn't innocent in the creation of that image, but that doesn't mean that image is actually true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 18, 2017, 11:12:57 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:56:14 AMyour opinion of him as president was formed in an environment that demonized trump. so, you have this image of him that you haven't yet shaken off

My opinion of him as president was pretty much formed in an environment created, maintained, sustained, and embraced by Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:16:14 AM
covered that response, ox
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 11:20:37 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:56:14 AM
anyway, I think you hate his guts this |----| much in part because of the languish echo chamber during the election.

Yeah that's berkut - always hesitant to express his own opinion, waiting to hear what the crowd says.  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
Compared to how people around me talk in lefty Austin I think Languish is positively moderate on Trump :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 11:22:59 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:03:19 AM
an image of who trump is was certainly created throughout the election. yes, obviously he wasn't innocent in the creation of that image, but that doesn't mean that image is actually true.

So where does the truth lie?  Where is the real Donald Trump?  And does it matter whether such a thing exists when he appears content to play his TV persona throughout?

The evidence of our senses strongly suggests there's no there there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 11:20:37 AMYeah that's berkut - always hesitant to express his own opinion, waiting to hear what the crowd says.  :huh:

I don't see how you inferred that from my post
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 18, 2017, 11:23:49 AM
Not really. You simply state that Trump's image is victim of exaggerations - based on what? What are the amazing signs of depth, decency, intellectual mastery from Trump that sustains that amazing insight into the real Trump, that he has spent years camouflaging under the image of an egotistical con artist?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 11:24:11 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 11:20:37 AMYeah that's berkut - always hesitant to express his own opinion, waiting to hear what the crowd says.  :huh:

I don't see how you inferred that from my post

You did kind of imply Berkut was brainwashed by our anti-Trumpism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:26:20 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 11:22:59 AMSo where does the truth lie?  Where is the real Donald Trump?  And does it matter whether such a thing exists when he appears content to play his TV persona throughout?

The evidence of our senses strongly suggests there's no there there.

I think we'll find out over the next four years
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 11:26:48 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:26:20 AM
I think we'll find out over the next four years

If the previous 30 years didn't mean anything I don't see why the next four will.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:28:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 11:24:11 AMYou did kind of imply Berkut was brainwashed by our anti-Trumpism.

"brainwash" is pretty strong. it's a natural thing for beliefs to be influenced by things you read. but, minsky is suggesting I said something entirely different than that
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:29:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 11:26:48 AMIf the previous 30 years didn't mean anything I don't see why the next four will.

some things about trump are known, like his narcissism. how exactly that will play out during his presidency is unknown.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 18, 2017, 11:32:51 AM
Clearly, for reasons unknown, you are much more reassured about the transition phase than I.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 11:35:10 AM
So basically for Lacroix, the Trump presidency is about hope and change?  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 18, 2017, 11:38:01 AM
Yeah, but true to Trump's personality. Hope and Change for himself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:41:07 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 18, 2017, 11:38:01 AM
Yeah, but true to Trump's personality. Hope and Change for himself.

one can be narcissistic yet try to do good for others. iirc, it's type 2 narcissism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 18, 2017, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 11:35:10 AM
So basically for Lacroix, the Trump presidency is about hope and change?  ;)

If you are not on the side of the Rothschild-Rockefeller coalition, of course it does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 02:15:59 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:41:07 AM
one can be narcissistic yet try to do good for others. iirc, it's type 2 narcissism.

I think that you are making this up as you go along.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 02:15:59 PMI think that you are making this up as you go along.

making what up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 18, 2017, 02:35:55 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:41:07 AM
one can be narcissistic yet try to do good for others. iirc, it's type 2 narcissism.

Is there any evidence that Trump has ever exhibited that kind of narcissism, as opposed to the grossly self-serving one?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 02:47:09 PM
Not when he destroyed the USFL that is for sure  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 02:51:41 PM
depends. a person with type 2 can violate his own self-described moral ethics and moral compass through rationalization. he can lie, have affairs, etc., by justifying his actions and behaviors.

and, I checked again, and it's not "type 2 narcissism," it's narcissism traits. "narcissism" can be (1) narcissistic features, (2) narcissistic traits, or (3) full-blown narcissistic personality disorder. that's what I meant by type 2, the second one. it can involve an egocentric focus -- taking one's own opinion and belief system and using it as his norm instead of potentially listening to the advice/recommendations of others.

full-blown NPD means the narcissism causes pervasive and significant disruptions in one's life. given trump's successful business relationships and his ability to successfully navigate through social situations, among other things, I doubt he's full-blown NPD.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 03:04:27 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 02:51:41 PM
depends. a person with type 2 can violate his own self-described moral ethics and moral compass through rationalization. he can lie, have affairs, etc., by justifying his actions and behaviors.

and, I checked again, and it's not "type 2 narcissism," it's narcissism traits. "narcissism" can be (1) narcissistic features, (2) narcissistic traits, or (3) full-blown narcissistic personality disorder. that's what I meant by type 2, the second one. it can involve an egocentric focus -- taking one's own opinion and belief system and using it as his norm instead of potentially listening to the advice/recommendations of others.

full-blown NPD means the narcissism causes pervasive and significant disruptions in one's life. given trump's successful business relationships and his ability to successfully navigate through social situations, among other things, I doubt he's full-blown NPD.

So nothing at all to do with what you originally said. :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 03:11:59 PM
doctors, etc., can be diagnosed as having narcissism traits. does that tie it up, or was there something else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 03:19:59 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 18, 2017, 02:35:55 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:41:07 AM
one can be narcissistic yet try to do good for others. iirc, it's type 2 narcissism.

Is there any evidence that Trump has ever exhibited that kind of narcissism, as opposed to the grossly self-serving one?

they are both grossly self-serving.  One type (the trump type) is delusionally sure they have no flaws; the other type (what I'll call the languish narcissist type) is secretly crippled by self-doubt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 03:04:27 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 02:51:41 PM
depends. a person with type 2 can violate his own self-described moral ethics and moral compass through rationalization. he can lie, have affairs, etc., by justifying his actions and behaviors.

and, I checked again, and it's not "type 2 narcissism," it's narcissism traits. "narcissism" can be (1) narcissistic features, (2) narcissistic traits, or (3) full-blown narcissistic personality disorder. that's what I meant by type 2, the second one. it can involve an egocentric focus -- taking one's own opinion and belief system and using it as his norm instead of potentially listening to the advice/recommendations of others.

full-blown NPD means the narcissism causes pervasive and significant disruptions in one's life. given trump's successful business relationships and his ability to successfully navigate through social situations, among other things, I doubt he's full-blown NPD.

So nothing at all to do with what you originally said. :mellow:

Like I said, he's making up this rationalization as he goes along.  When challenged, he changes tack to some other argument.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 03:31:03 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 03:11:59 PM
doctors, etc., can be diagnosed as having narcissism traits. does that tie it up, or was there something else?

No idea what this means.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 03:38:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 03:31:03 PMNo idea what this means.

does that answer your concern expressed here
QuoteSo nothing at all to do with what you originally said.

I assumed you meant my post here

Quoteone can be narcissistic yet try to do good for others. iirc, it's type 2 narcissism.

that after explaining the different types of narcissism, I didn't actually explain that "one can be narcissistic yet try to do good for others." I asked whether my response satisfies your concern.

Quote from: grumblerLike I said, he's making up this rationalization as he goes along.  When challenged, he changes tack to some other argument.

what? after I mentioned trump's narcissism, oex posted, "Yeah, but true to Trump's personality. Hope and Change for himself." I took this to mean he was saying trump is narcissistic, so the hope and change is self-serving. I responded to this by saying narcissists can act selflessly. and then you jumped in saying I'm was making shit up along the way. I still have no idea what you mean by this..
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 03:45:28 PM
Dakota, you start off saying maybe Donnie is the Mother Theresa kind of narcissist, then come up with a list of narcissism types that has nothing to do with altruism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 03:50:23 PM
what I posted doesn't prohibit acts of altruism. if it helps clear the confusion, people diagnosed with having narcissistic traits can still feel empathetic toward others. they can act with good intentions to help others. they can live by a moral code (but they can also violate this code if they justify it). trump can want to be a good president and help all americans, and he can do things that screw over certain americans by justifying it in whatever way. he can do this while having narcissistic traits.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 03:38:41 PM
what? after I mentioned trump's narcissism, oex posted, "Yeah, but true to Trump's personality. Hope and Change for himself." I took this to mean he was saying trump is narcissistic, so the hope and change is self-serving. I responded to this by saying narcissists can act selflessly. and then you jumped in saying I'm was making shit up along the way. I still have no idea what you mean by this..

I'm saying that you are making up shit about narcissism, hoping that no one will notice how you are using red herrings to rationalize trump's behavior, and then changing tack when your first bogus diagnosis is exposed as bogus.  Trump is a classic narcissist.  There isn't some secret type of classic narcissist that would actually make a great president.  Some narcissism is present in many presidents, but Trump is the first pathological narcissist to see the Oval office.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 03:58:28 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 03:50:23 PM
what I posted doesn't prohibit acts of altruism. if it helps clear the confusion, people diagnosed with having narcissistic traits can still feel empathetic toward others. they can act with good intentions to help others. they can live by a moral code (but they can also violate this code if they justify it). trump can want to be a good president and help all americans, and he can do things that screw over certain americans by justifying it in whatever way. he can do this while having narcissistic traits.

OK, got it.  What you've been trying to say all along is "since we don't know why type of narcissist he is, we can't conclude from just his narcissism that he will be an utter douchebag."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 18, 2017, 03:59:08 PM
Every action he's taken so far during the transition period is bad for your country. There's no way to sugar coat it or interpret it differently. Maybe Mattis might be ok. The rest of his picks, if they really implement what they've said in the past, and according to the confirmation hearings, are going to be really, really bad.

Lacroix, have you seen DeVos' hearing? It was sad, but mostly for the vast majority of middle class and poor folks that send their kids to public school. She had absolutely no idea what IDEA was for example. Not even a vague notion. She didn't know what it was. You're sabotaging your future. Maybe that's the GOP's point, I dunno.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 03:53:22 PMI'm saying that you are making up shit about narcissism, hoping that no one will notice how you are using red herrings to rationalize trump's behavior, and then changing tack when your first bogus diagnosis is exposed as bogus.  Trump is a classic narcissist.  There isn't some secret type of classic narcissist that would actually make a great president.  Some narcissism is present in many presidents, but Trump is the first pathological narcissist to see the Oval office.

I took everything I've said about narcissism from a psychologist. I don't make shit up on internet forums, and I don't see why anyone would. to do so would be pretty weird AF (edit - except for entertainment value like pure shitposting on image boards.)

Quote from: Admiral YiWhat you've been trying to say all along is "since we don't know why type of narcissist he is, we can't conclude from just his narcissism that he will be an utter douchebag."

basically -- we don't know with certainty, though I think trump's narcissism would probably fall under narcissistic traits. I doubt he's full-blown NPD for the reason explained in my earlier post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 18, 2017, 04:09:13 PM
Fortunately her ability to cancel Public Education is somewhat limited by how education is funded and controlled.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 04:07:40 PM
basically -- we don't know with certainty, though I think trump's narcissism would probably fall under narcissistic traits. I doubt he's full-blown NPD for the reason explained in my earlier post.

We don't know with certainty using only the predicate of clincal narcissism.  Using other information we can quite easily determine that he has always been and always will be a douchebag.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 04:13:15 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 18, 2017, 03:59:08 PM
Every action he's taken so far during the transition period is bad for your country. There's no way to sugar coat it or interpret it differently. Maybe Mattis might be ok. The rest of his picks, if they really implement what they've said in the past, and according to the confirmation hearings, are going to be really, really bad.

Lacroix, have you seen DeVos' hearing? It was sad, but mostly for the vast majority of middle class and poor folks that send their kids to public school. She had absolutely no idea what IDEA was for example. Not even a vague notion. She didn't know what it was. You're sabotaging your future. Maybe that's the GOP's point, I dunno.

he's asked the republican legislature to quickly replace obamacare if they repeal it. imo, that's not bad for the country. he also asked his supporters to stop being violent toward minorities. etc.

I've read up on devos and got a gist of what she knows. if she and most of the other cabinet picks bumble their way through the next four years, then so be it. the US will survive it
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 04:14:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 04:12:09 PMWe don't know with certainty using only the predicate of clincal narcissism.  Using other information we can quite easily determine that he has always been and always will be a douchebag.

I agree he's a douchebag
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 18, 2017, 05:09:07 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 04:13:15 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 18, 2017, 03:59:08 PM
Every action he's taken so far during the transition period is bad for your country. There's no way to sugar coat it or interpret it differently. Maybe Mattis might be ok. The rest of his picks, if they really implement what they've said in the past, and according to the confirmation hearings, are going to be really, really bad.

Lacroix, have you seen DeVos' hearing? It was sad, but mostly for the vast majority of middle class and poor folks that send their kids to public school. She had absolutely no idea what IDEA was for example. Not even a vague notion. She didn't know what it was. You're sabotaging your future. Maybe that's the GOP's point, I dunno.

I've read up on devos and got a gist of what she knows. if she and most of the other cabinet picks bumble their way through the next four years, then so be it. the US will survive it

I tend to agree with this. I'd like to believe that even with giant morons in charge of Education and HUD, the civil service will still be there to make sure things actually run somewhat competently, despite the lack of real leadership.

But it is lost time and money that could have been spent actually making American schools and low-income housing, you know, better.  Make better picks you fucking rube.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 05:24:00 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 03:53:22 PMI'm saying that you are making up shit about narcissism, hoping that no one will notice how you are using red herrings to rationalize trump's behavior, and then changing tack when your first bogus diagnosis is exposed as bogus.  Trump is a classic narcissist.  There isn't some secret type of classic narcissist that would actually make a great president.  Some narcissism is present in many presidents, but Trump is the first pathological narcissist to see the Oval office.

I took everything I've said about narcissism from a psychologist. I don't make shit up on internet forums, and I don't see why anyone would. to do so would be pretty weird AF (edit - except for entertainment value like pure shitposting on image boards.)

Quote from: Admiral YiWhat you've been trying to say all along is "since we don't know why type of narcissist he is, we can't conclude from just his narcissism that he will be an utter douchebag."

basically -- we don't know with certainty, though I think trump's narcissism would probably fall under narcissistic traits. I doubt he's full-blown NPD for the reason explained in my earlier post.

If this "psychologist" is the one who told you that Trump probably isn't a pathological narcissist because he isn't broke, she or he is a pretty shitty psychologist.  Especially if she or he told you that Trump was a "type 2" narcissist, since those don't exist.

The evidence we have strongly indicates that trump is a full-blown pathological narcissist.  I understand your desire to try to convince us that, if we only ignore all of the evidence, we can believe that it is possible that Trump isn't a pathological narcissist but simply a person who acts like one, but you aren't at all convincing.  In fact, you sound just like someone who is making up definitions as you go along.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on January 18, 2017, 05:56:56 PM
I'm confused what shitty sparkling water's skin in the game is in his trump love.  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 18, 2017, 05:56:56 PM
I'm confused what shitty sparkling water's skin in the game is in his trump love.  :huh:

You're not the only one who's confused. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on January 18, 2017, 06:01:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 18, 2017, 05:56:56 PM
I'm confused what shitty sparkling water's skin in the game is in his trump love.  :huh:

You're not the only one who's confused. :unsure:
now you know how rest of us feel!!!1
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 18, 2017, 06:10:52 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2fNfe9WIAAvW_9.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 06:28:24 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 05:24:00 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 03:53:22 PMI'm saying that you are making up shit about narcissism, hoping that no one will notice how you are using red herrings to rationalize trump's behavior, and then changing tack when your first bogus diagnosis is exposed as bogus.  Trump is a classic narcissist.  There isn't some secret type of classic narcissist that would actually make a great president.  Some narcissism is present in many presidents, but Trump is the first pathological narcissist to see the Oval office.

I took everything I've said about narcissism from a psychologist. I don't make shit up on internet forums, and I don't see why anyone would. to do so would be pretty weird AF (edit - except for entertainment value like pure shitposting on image boards.)

Quote from: Admiral YiWhat you've been trying to say all along is "since we don't know why type of narcissist he is, we can't conclude from just his narcissism that he will be an utter douchebag."

basically -- we don't know with certainty, though I think trump's narcissism would probably fall under narcissistic traits. I doubt he's full-blown NPD for the reason explained in my earlier post.

If this "psychologist" is the one who told you that Trump probably isn't a pathological narcissist because he isn't broke, she or he is a pretty shitty psychologist.  Especially if she or he told you that Trump was a "type 2" narcissist, since those don't exist.

The evidence we have strongly indicates that trump is a full-blown pathological narcissist.  I understand your desire to try to convince us that, if we only ignore all of the evidence, we can believe that it is possible that Trump isn't a pathological narcissist but simply a person who acts like one, but you aren't at all convincing.  In fact, you sound just like someone who is making up definitions as you go along.

no, that was mine. I even basically said so in my responses to yi. if I was trying to say some psychologist diagnosed trump, I'd have said so. instead, I said "given [xxx], I doubt he's full-blown NPD." the non-analysis relating to trump was from the psychologist. "type 2" was my somewhat faulty recollection -- I knew it was basically 1-3, and the one I meant was #2.

I don't see the pervasive and significant disruptions to warrant full-blown NPD, but we don't know all the facts of trump's life, and I'm not a psychologist. so, it is possible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 06:30:02 PM
I don't love trump. I respond to posts that seem questionable. debates can be fun.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 09:59:19 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 06:28:24 PM
I don't see the pervasive and significant disruptions to warrant full-blown NPD...

You are looking at them, you just don't want to see them.  His constant tweets about himself, his obsession over the issue of how big his hands are, his constant personal attacks on everyone who he thinks disagrees with him or disrespects him, his childish insistence on sharing with Howard Stern the numbers of "beautiful women" he has had sex with, his bragging about how his sexy power means that he can "grab 'em by the pussy" and get away with it, his near-universal refusal to pay his partners and contractors what they are owed, his hundreds of lawsuits over imaginary stuff like the conspiracy to fly airliners over his property... it's all there, in plain sight.  You just can't see it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 10:01:12 PM
fair points
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 10:03:52 PM
The guy's such a textbook case he's fucking boring, people.  Hannibal Lecter would call him garden-variety and tedious, very tedious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 10:06:12 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 10:03:52 PM
The guy's such a textbook case he's fucking boring, people.  Hannibal Lecter would call him garden-variety and tedious, very tedious.

To be fair, HL would say that about you and I, as well.

Enjoy your Trump while you have him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 10:16:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 10:06:12 PM
To be fair, HL would say that about you and I, as well.

Well yeah, but he does it with style and panache.

QuoteEnjoy your Trump while you have him.

We're all going to die.  And not with style and panache.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 18, 2017, 10:27:33 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 10:16:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 10:06:12 PM
To be fair, HL would say that about you and I, as well.

Well yeah, but he does it with style and panache.

QuoteEnjoy your Trump while you have him.

We're all going to die.  And not with style and panache.

Well there is still time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on January 18, 2017, 10:35:10 PM
Real quote?  (Betsy, not the bear)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16177535_10207335749783043_2908228917050135044_o.jpg?oh=8f866fd6550ae419b66bdb36fb0dd17b&oe=59216CB9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 10:37:02 PM
QuoteConnecticut Sen. Chris Murphy, who represents Sandy Hook, the site of the 2012 school shooting, asked DeVos if she believes guns have "any place in and around schools."

"I think that is best left to locales and states to decide," she said.

After Murphy pushed DeVos about why she can't say definitively whether they belong, DeVos brought up a story Sen. Mike Enzi told earlier about a school in Wyoming that has fences around it to protect against grizzly bears.

"I will refer back to Sen. Enzi and the school he is talking about in Wyoming. I think probably there, I would imagine there is probably a gun in a school to protect from potential grizzlies," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/politics/betsy-devos-grizzly-bears-donald-trump-guns/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on January 18, 2017, 10:41:03 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on January 18, 2017, 10:35:10 PM
Real quote?  (Betsy, not the bear)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16177535_10207335749783043_2908228917050135044_o.jpg?oh=8f866fd6550ae419b66bdb36fb0dd17b&oe=59216CB9)

I believe that's not exactly what she said.  She did mention that there was a school in Wyoming that had a fence and guns because of grizzly bears.  The response came up when queried on why schools should have guns.  I don't think she meant everybody needs guns because of grizzlies, but then I don't really have a clue why she brought it up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 10:41:51 PM
Because only in school could a grizzly reach its potential.  Because they're not grizzlies until then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 18, 2017, 10:57:43 PM
Quote from: frunk on January 18, 2017, 10:41:03 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on January 18, 2017, 10:35:10 PM
Real quote?  (Betsy, not the bear)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16177535_10207335749783043_2908228917050135044_o.jpg?oh=8f866fd6550ae419b66bdb36fb0dd17b&oe=59216CB9)

I believe that's not exactly what she said.  She did mention that there was a school in Wyoming that had a fence and guns because of grizzly bears.  The response came up when queried on why schools should have guns.  I don't think she meant everybody needs guns because of grizzlies, but then I don't really have a clue why she brought it up.

My 11yo could have articulated that answer better. Fucking mind numbing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 11:00:22 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 18, 2017, 10:57:43 PM
My 11yo could have articulated that answer better. Fucking mind numbing.

That's your new Secretary of Education.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 18, 2017, 11:01:17 PM
We'll all be homeschoolin'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 18, 2017, 11:07:55 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 11:00:22 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 18, 2017, 10:57:43 PM
My 11yo could have articulated that answer better. Fucking mind numbing.

That's your new Secretary of Education.

Franken crushed her.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 11:11:28 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on January 18, 2017, 10:35:10 PM
Real quote?  (Betsy, not the bear)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16177535_10207335749783043_2908228917050135044_o.jpg?oh=8f866fd6550ae419b66bdb36fb0dd17b&oe=59216CB9)
:yeahright: I don't think it's reasonable to expect the bear to be objective here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 11:16:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 18, 2017, 11:07:55 PM
Franken crushed her.

QuoteDuring the 2014 and 2016 election cycles, DeVos and her relatives gave at least $818,000 to 20 current Republican senators, including more than $250,000 to five members of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP), according to a Washington Post analysis of Federal Election Commission records.

DeVos personally made a relatively small percentage of those donations: at least $31,400 to committee members and $96,000 to all senators. But her giving appears to have been coordinated with her family: In most cases, senators received donations from more than a half-dozen DeVos family members, including her husband, his parents and his siblings, on the same day.

She is a completely unprepared and incompetent ideologue who has spent her entire adult life and millions of dollars with the sole purpose of eliminating public education.  She will be confirmed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 07:16:31 AM
I must admit that I have to laugh at the idea that Trump really thought DeVos was the best choice for Secretary of Education.  He wanted to drain the swamp by inviting in the alligators?

The reason I can laugh at this is that there probably isn't a cabinet secretary more useless and powerless than Education.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on January 19, 2017, 07:25:31 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 18, 2017, 05:09:07 PM

I tend to agree with this. I'd like to believe that even with giant morons in charge of Education and HUD, the civil service will still be there to make sure things actually run somewhat competently, despite the lack of real leadership.

But it is lost time and money that could have been spent actually making American schools and low-income housing, you know, better.  Make better picks you fucking rube.

While that is probably to a certain degree true, during the election I did have the thought: "well, even if trump were to win, he will probably pick the standard republican cabinet secretaries and advisors, who may be able to keep him from getting too far off the rails."

Now he seems to not be doing that. Can we be certain the goofballs he is appointing will put in place reasonable leadership teams, and not really mess up at least the higher levels of the civil service?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 19, 2017, 07:30:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 07:16:31 AM
I must admit that I have to laugh at the idea that Trump really thought DeVos was the best choice for Secretary of Education.  He wanted to drain the swamp by inviting in the alligators?

The reason I can laugh at this is that there probably isn't a cabinet secretary more useless and powerless than Education.

That's because you teach at a hoity-toity private school. But handicapped students and negroes that wouldn't otherwise be allowed to go to school in some states like yours appreciate the Dept of Ed's enforcement of federal civil rights in ensuring legal access to public education for all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 19, 2017, 07:33:39 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 19, 2017, 07:25:31 AM
While that is probably to a certain degree true, during the election I did have the thought: "well, even if trump were to win, he will probably pick the standard republican cabinet secretaries and advisors, who may be able to keep him from getting too far off the rails."

Why the fuck would you think that?  What is with you fucking people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2017, 08:08:08 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16143102_10211586698840235_2742961638446615967_n.jpg?oh=63ea76dee71b3d00bc9fd9ba7326170a&oe=591B0323)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15665884_10211375787100827_389784106904511780_n.jpg?oh=73abcc78a390cd536c70ad3607d22eb1&oe=5912D320)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 19, 2017, 08:42:35 AM
It is so ANNOYING when people ABUSE CAPITALIZATION to EMPHASIZE every fourth word.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 09:04:02 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 19, 2017, 07:30:51 AM
That's because you teach at a hoity-toity private school. But handicapped students and negroes that wouldn't otherwise be allowed to go to school in some states like yours appreciate the Dept of Ed's enforcement of federal civil rights in ensuring legal access to public education for all.

I don't think DoEd has had to do a thing to "ensuring legal access to public education" in Virginia since it was formed.

The federal government has a role in education, for sure.  The sec of ed has almost nothing to do with that role, however, and the position only exists as a political sop.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 09:06:33 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 19, 2017, 08:42:35 AM
It is so ANNOYING when people ABUSE CAPITALIZATION to EMPHASIZE every fourth FOURTH word.

FTFY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 19, 2017, 09:10:46 AM
Chances are you'll find Trump playing golf.  He does own a golf-club.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2017, 09:17:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 19, 2017, 09:10:46 AM
Chances are you'll find Trump playing golf.  He does own a golf-club.

He'll be playing golf, but the press won't find him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 19, 2017, 09:22:02 AM
Hey, remember when that governor disappeared for two weeks and was found with his mistress in Argentina? It'll be like that, except people will recognize Trump wherever he goes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 09:27:59 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 19, 2017, 09:22:02 AM
Hey, remember when that governor disappeared for two weeks and was found with his mistress in Argentina? It'll be like that, except people will recognize Trump wherever he goes.

Yep.  it led to the creation of the phrase "hiking the Appalachian Trail," which meant committing adultery. 

"What was president Clinton doing there with Monica Lewinsky?"

"Oh, he was hiking the Appalachian Trail."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on January 19, 2017, 10:10:48 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 19, 2017, 07:33:39 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 19, 2017, 07:25:31 AM
While that is probably to a certain degree true, during the election I did have the thought: "well, even if trump were to win, he will probably pick the standard republican cabinet secretaries and advisors, who may be able to keep him from getting too far off the rails."

Why the fuck would you think that?  What is with you fucking people?

What do you mean, you people???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1oGUaYCTf8
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on January 19, 2017, 10:33:46 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 19, 2017, 09:22:02 AM
Hey, remember when that governor disappeared for two weeks and was found with his mistress in Argentina? It'll be like that, except people will recognize Trump wherever he goes.
Mark Sanford.  Ruined his career and marriage for a relationship that didn't even work out in the end. :lol:

Then again, the people of SC elected that piece of shit back into the Congress, so I guess he didn't ruin his career after all. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 18, 2017, 03:59:08 PM
Lacroix, have you seen DeVos' hearing? It was sad, but mostly for the vast majority of middle class and poor folks that send their kids to public school. She had absolutely no idea what IDEA was for example. Not even a vague notion. She didn't know what it was. You're sabotaging your future. Maybe that's the GOP's point, I dunno.

Second this.  That was horrifying.  Basically she has spent much of her adult life figuring out ways to steer public money to religious schools, even if that means burning the system down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 12:04:27 PM
Second this.  That was horrifying.  Basically she has spent much of her adult life figuring out ways to steer public money to religious schools, even if that means burning the system down.

How does steering public money to religious schools burn the system down?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2017, 12:30:18 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15391130_10153875753817581_8092109888260561267_n.jpg?oh=55e3c9916966b3a046a3b3bf029d15d1&oe=59234EC5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 19, 2017, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 19, 2017, 12:30:18 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15391130_10153875753817581_8092109888260561267_n.jpg?oh=55e3c9916966b3a046a3b3bf029d15d1&oe=59234EC5)

I imagine who ever created that will be disappointed if there is no Muslim ban.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 19, 2017, 01:28:59 PM
It's no longer in good enough shape for a decent photo, but a sticker on a telephone pole I pass on my commute made me think of derspiess, and is in the spirit of this thread. Nothing turns up on Google image search either, but it read:

CRAFT BEER IS WHITE SUPREMACY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 19, 2017, 01:54:42 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 19, 2017, 01:28:59 PM
It's no longer in good enough shape for a decent photo, but a sticker on a telephone pole I pass on my commute made me think of derspiess, and is in the spirit of this thread. Nothing turns up on Google image search either, but it read:

CRAFT BEER IS WHITE SUPREMACY

:ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 19, 2017, 01:55:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 09:04:02 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 19, 2017, 07:30:51 AM
That's because you teach at a hoity-toity private school. But handicapped students and negroes that wouldn't otherwise be allowed to go to school in some states like yours appreciate the Dept of Ed's enforcement of federal civil rights in ensuring legal access to public education for all.

I don't think DoEd has had to do a thing to "ensuring legal access to public education" in Virginia since it was formed.

The federal government has a role in education, for sure.  The sec of ed has almost nothing to do with that role, however, and the position only exists as a political sop.

I stand corrected; the US Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights has nothing to do with any of that, especially in nigger-hating Virginia.  Thanks, sailor! :yeah:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 01:56:38 PM
So that's why it's called India Pale Ale.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 19, 2017, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 19, 2017, 01:54:42 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 19, 2017, 01:28:59 PM
It's no longer in good enough shape for a decent photo, but a sticker on a telephone pole I pass on my commute made me think of derspiess, and is in the spirit of this thread. Nothing turns up on Google image search either, but it read:

CRAFT BEER IS WHITE SUPREMACY

:ph34r:

We already knew that, Miller White Life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
Come to think of it, I can't recall ever seeing a brother drinking a Sam Adams.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 19, 2017, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 12:04:27 PM
Second this.  That was horrifying.  Basically she has spent much of her adult life figuring out ways to steer public money to religious schools, even if that means burning the system down.

How does steering public money to religious schools burn the system down?

Presumably because that public money no longer goes to the non-religious schools, causing them to catch fire? And because she apparently knows nothing about public schools so she'll be careless with the matches and gasoline out of ignorance?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 19, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 18, 2017, 03:59:08 PM
Lacroix, have you seen DeVos' hearing? It was sad, but mostly for the vast majority of middle class and poor folks that send their kids to public school. She had absolutely no idea what IDEA was for example. Not even a vague notion. She didn't know what it was. You're sabotaging your future. Maybe that's the GOP's point, I dunno.

Second this.  That was horrifying.  Basically she has spent much of her adult life figuring out ways to steer public money to religious schools, even if that means burning the system down.

So she's in favour of madrassas, as long as they don't contain Muslims.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2017, 02:41:14 PM
http://myrightamerica.com/obama-forces-us-intelligence-betray-trump/

QuoteExposed: Obama Forces US Intelligence To Betray Trump...Americans Are Furious!

Obama is hurting the US. He's a traitor. And it's not hyperbole this time.

(Bear with me, and be patient.)

Donald Trump has done more for Israel in the few weeks he's had before becoming president than Barack Obama has in eight solid years of ugly betrayal, scheming, and hidden anti-Semitism. Unfortunately, Obama isn't going out on a low note. And his last note is causing some real damage. And liberals, had they the capacity, should be ashamed.

Obama is undermining president-elect Trump's relationship with Israel, before Trump even takes office. And he's doing it with Israel.

The Israeli journalists at Ynet News have reported a meeting with American and Israeli intelligence operatives, to discuss one thing: if Trump is controlled by Russia, should the USA and Israel share intelligence?

Apparently...no. Not at all. If Trump is controlled by Russia, then surely Israeli intelligence would end up in Iranian hands...from Israel, to America, to Trump, to Russia, to Russia's ally, Iran. And that, for many obvious reasons, is a less than ideal situation.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.timesofisrael.com%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F05%2FRussia-Israel_Horo2.jpg&hash=f0b9ce40428e1bb44d447d2fc16a7c88bc764adb)

From Ynet News: "According to the Israelis who were present in the meeting, the Americans recommended that until it is made clear that Trump is not inappropriately connected to Russia and is not being extorted – Israel should avoid revealing sensitive sources to administration officials for fear the information would reach the Iranians."

But the whole setup, mind you, depends on one thing – a link between Trump and Russia. More specifically, a level of control that Russia might have over Trump.

And, if you've been with us in earlier stories, you know the truth: there is no link. There's nothing but a trail that leads back to vindictive Democrats paying a British spy to dig up anything he could on Trump, even if it meant making it up.

Which means,  that Fake News and fake intel are being used to coerce American intelligence operatives to damage their relationship with Israel, right before president Trump takes his oath. Right before the man, praised by Netanyahu himself for his support of Israel, is in a position to support Israel with the full weight and power of the United States of America.

In short, right before Trump can help Israel, Obama has made it so that he can't. With lies, mind you, that undercut both the American presidency and aid to Israel.

It's simultaneously anti-Semitic and anti-American. Racist, and treasonous. That's got to be some kind of record.

And as repetitive as it now seems, Obama needs to go. Now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 02:54:37 PM
Wait... on the last day of Obama's presidency, the tinfoil hat brigade is arguing that he "must go?"   :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2017, 02:57:35 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 02:54:37 PM
Wait... on the last day of Obama's presidency, the tinfoil hat brigade is arguing that he "must go?"   :huh:

Maybe they're worried he's not getting enough fiber.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 19, 2017, 03:00:15 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 12:04:27 PM
Second this.  That was horrifying.  Basically she has spent much of her adult life figuring out ways to steer public money to religious schools, even if that means burning the system down.

How does steering public money to religious schools burn the system down?
Ask the Afghans and the Pakistanis :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 04:04:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 12:04:27 PM
Second this.  That was horrifying.  Basically she has spent much of her adult life figuring out ways to steer public money to religious schools, even if that means burning the system down.

How does steering public money to religious schools burn the system down?

It doesn't follow out of necessity.  But it does as a matter of reality.  DeVos is not so much interested in charter schools as a mechanism for improving the quality of educational outcomes.  For people like her, the attraction is in part that charter schools can skirt around legal limitations on religious instruction.  But theultimate objective is to put in place full-scale voucher programs to allow parents to use public money to send kids to private religious schools.  That's why Michigan's seemingly failed experiment with unaccountable charter schools is not a bug, but a feature.  The policy has succeeded in damaging the public school system, which would otherwise be an unassailable bastion of Establishment Clause prohibition on religion in the schools.  Damage the system bad enough and you create a constituency and demand for washing one's hands of the existing system and putting full-scale voucher systems in place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 04:05:50 PM
More on this from politico: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/betsy-devos-education-trump-religion-232150
Mind-boggling stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
Quote"The church — which ought to be in our view far more central to the life of the community — has been displaced by the public school as the center for activity, the center for what goes on in the community," Dick DeVos says.

"It is certainly our hope that churches would continue, no matter what the environment — whether there's government funding some day through tax credits, or vouchers, or some other mechanism or whatever it may be — that more and more churches will get more and more active and engaged in education," he said. "We just can think of no better way to rebuild our families and our communities."

When asked why they don't just spend their time — and money — funding Christian schools, Betsy DeVos said they want to reform the whole system to bring "greater Kingdom gain."

Speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 04:12:47 PM
The "damage" you mention is, as far as I'm aware, removing less than a pro rata share of funding.  The only way that constitutes damage is if you acknowledge a de facto subsidy previously occuring, from the kids who have left to the ones who stay behind (no pun intended yuck yuck).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 19, 2017, 04:27:17 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
Quote"The church — which ought to be in our view far more central to the life of the community — has been displaced by the public school as the center for activity, the center for what goes on in the community," Dick DeVos says.

"It is certainly our hope that churches would continue, no matter what the environment — whether there's government funding some day through tax credits, or vouchers, or some other mechanism or whatever it may be — that more and more churches will get more and more active and engaged in education," he said. "We just can think of no better way to rebuild our families and our communities."

When asked why they don't just spend their time — and money — funding Christian schools, Betsy DeVos said they want to reform the whole system to bring "greater Kingdom gain."

Speaks for itself.

Fucking fuck :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 04:31:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 04:12:47 PM
The "damage" you mention is, as far as I'm aware, removing less than a pro rata share of funding.  The only way that constitutes damage is if you acknowledge a de facto subsidy previously occuring, from the kids who have left to the ones who stay behind (no pun intended yuck yuck).

Public school systems have fixed costs so an easy way of knocking a system down is to drain out people at the margin.  That's what happened in Detroit.
The "anything goes" program deVos backed in Michigan accelerated the process. Most of the charter operators are limited liability companies- they can form and compete for enrollment, and just fold up business if things don't go so well and then try again in another location or with a different marketing hook.  The result has been revolving doors where students jump from school to school.  Public schools aren't institutionally equipped to play this game against private LLCs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 04:49:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 04:12:47 PM
The "damage" you mention is, as far as I'm aware, removing less than a pro rata share of funding.  The only way that constitutes damage is if you acknowledge a de facto subsidy previously occuring, from the kids who have left to the ones who stay behind (no pun intended yuck yuck).

I don't think there's ever been a doubt that people without kids in public schools subsidize those who do have such kids.  The only way spending fire department money on subsidizing the purchase of burgler/fire alarm systems is if you acknowledge that property owners have previously subsidized the fire department's protection for tenants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 19, 2017, 04:51:53 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 04:31:41 PM
Public school systems have fixed costs so an easy way of knocking a system down is to drain out people at the margin.  That's what happened in Detroit.
The "anything goes" program deVos backed in Michigan accelerated the process. Most of the charter operators are limited liability companies- they can form and compete for enrollment, and just fold up business if things don't go so well and then try again in another location or with a different marketing hook.  The result has been revolving doors where students jump from school to school.  Public schools aren't institutionally equipped to play this game against private LLCs.

This whole "just fold up business if things don't go so well" thing doesn't sound conducive to good educational outcomes for the students involved.

Seems to me that using the free market model is great for optimizing profit generation for private investors, but not necessarily ideal for optimizing other outcomes. Personally, I'm not convinced that optimizing profit generation for private investors should be the main objective of a national education system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 04:56:31 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 04:31:41 PM
Public school systems have fixed costs so an easy way of knocking a system down is to drain out people at the margin.  That's what happened in Detroit.

I thought people just left Detroit.

Schools consolidate all the time in rural areas with shrinking populations.  Are those systems also "knocked down?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2017, 04:57:26 PM
John Oliver had a piece about charter schools a while ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I

Any Americans can say how accurate it is?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 19, 2017, 05:08:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 19, 2017, 04:57:26 PM
John Oliver had a piece about charter schools a while ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I

Any Americans can say how accurate it is?

Substitute "public" for "charter" and do research designed to prove the same points about public schools, and the episode would be identical.  There are, indeed, bad schools out there.  Charter and parochial schools are more ephemeral because they cannot operate at a loss for long, but they certainly are not, on average, significantly worse than public schools.  Whether they are significantly better is unclear.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 19, 2017, 05:19:59 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2017, 04:56:31 PM
I thought people just left Detroit.

Schools consolidate all the time in rural areas with shrinking populations.  Are those systems also "knocked down?"

That's part of the problem but public school enrollment has gone down much faster.  The charters have picked off lots of students.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 19, 2017, 09:38:08 PM
wouldn't the schools in the more affluent areas be affected most by charter schools, and couldn't those schools handle the losses? middle class schools might lose some funding, but "knocked down" seems ehh without evidence
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2017, 01:08:26 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16174736_1406376776059833_572681726653513906_n.jpg?oh=3e5a7805bb2791eb36cd4e74d1ec8f97&oe=591D315D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 20, 2017, 01:16:38 AM
Hey, it worked for Vietnamese monks.  :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 20, 2017, 07:35:42 AM
#Jump4Trump makes more sense and sounds better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2017, 08:06:45 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16143284_1399154250117480_7371353319166272985_n.jpg?oh=47e9388216ebe8b976b3dcd50483f8b3&oe=590D1D3B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 20, 2017, 10:12:42 AM
Does your family ever post anything that is NOT a giant strawman?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2017, 10:17:22 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 20, 2017, 10:12:42 AM
Does your family ever post anything that is NOT a giant strawman?

Well, my gay nephews rarely post anything political, though one of them considers participating in the San Diego Women's March tomorrow.

Only my two oldest sisters, their husbands, and my niece's Army Sgt. husband are regularly posting political stuff, really.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 20, 2017, 01:43:32 PM
(https://s28.postimg.org/clooi7vi5/16114102_10155431031311729_5156287734415137105_n.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e0q96xwl5/)image hosting site (https://postimage.org/)

Anyone want to help be disprove some of this?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 20, 2017, 01:49:03 PM
Cherry picked information. Even if it is true it is designed to tell a lie.

You can see similar stuff from charts showing how AMAZING Obama's presidency was.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 20, 2017, 01:52:39 PM
@ObamaWhiteHouse tells this story:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2kcidZUcAEmcX5.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2kcuLyUsAEOcho.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2kc8IcUsAAyQRt.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 20, 2017, 02:01:17 PM
All probably true as well.

There is a reason the conservatives are harping on 'work force participation', it is a counter-point to the 'job creation' and 'unemployment' numbers. But it has been declining pretty steadily ever since the mid 90s for reasons that probably have little to do with Obama. Especially since Obama was unable to really do much in his term, which makes most of this debate pretty pointless.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2017, 05:32:45 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16143083_1779961042329574_8302846341678838611_n.jpg?oh=23bee851d90c8e76e0bd5bc457c6bb97&oe=592057E6)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16142643_1750146991970076_4256228963929299706_n.jpg?oh=b8046200d117994e6c2d375c89324bb1&oe=591DD74E)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114255_1234463103275383_5083622154929787859_n.jpg?oh=a3c0f9fe7b7fb14e04cd6627e6fc3e20&oe=59150EEF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 20, 2017, 05:49:39 PM
:punk:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 20, 2017, 05:54:05 PM
I'm sure the USSS appreciates the assistance from the Bikers for Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 20, 2017, 05:54:55 PM
I never get the sheer hatred seeping out of these memes, the fetichization of violence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on January 20, 2017, 05:56:34 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 20, 2017, 05:54:55 PM
I never get the sheer hatred seeping out of these memes, the fetichization of violence.
overcompensation, just ask derspicy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 20, 2017, 06:00:36 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 20, 2017, 05:54:05 PM
I'm sure the USSS appreciates the assistance from the Bikers for Trump.

They're his personal militia :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2017, 06:03:07 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 20, 2017, 05:54:05 PM
I'm sure the USSS appreciates the assistance from the Bikers for Trump.

He just wishes he had something like Putin's Night Wolves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 20, 2017, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 20, 2017, 05:54:55 PM
I never get the sheer hatred seeping out of these memes, the fetichization of violence.

They feel they are at an unfair disadvantage in verbal confrontation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 20, 2017, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 20, 2017, 06:03:07 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 20, 2017, 05:54:05 PM
I'm sure the USSS appreciates the assistance from the Bikers for Trump.

He just wishes he had something like Putin's Night Wolves.

Working on it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 20, 2017, 06:08:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 20, 2017, 05:54:05 PM
I'm sure the USSS appreciates the assistance from the Bikers for Trump.

Every autocrat has his blackshirts.  Usually, autocrats are smart enough to make sure that they are not in, you know, literal black shirts, but Trump has never shown himself one of the smart autocrats.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 20, 2017, 06:09:29 PM
These dudes wear leather jackets.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 20, 2017, 06:14:09 PM
Yes, and the combination leather jacket with matching over-patched vest offers the very versatility that ever biker needs, whether at the office writing racist internet forum comments, or for that after-hours-on-the-town-beating-faggots look.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2017, 06:14:37 PM
(https://external-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDzy1UxQmKow38Q&w=487&h=487&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent.cdninstagram.com%2Ft51.2885-15%2Fs750x750%2Fsh0.08%2Fe35%2F15048089_323086928063869_3452885313477672960_n.jpg%3Fig_cache_key%3DMTM3OTY5MDU2OTU4NDcxODQ5Nw%253D%253D.2&sx=0&sy=0&sw=750&sh=750&_nc_hash=AQB76-txF14yE5Jp)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 20, 2017, 06:34:10 PM
So America only for white heteros?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on January 20, 2017, 06:38:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 20, 2017, 06:34:10 PM
So America only for white heteros?
Make America Great again, duh!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2017, 06:42:00 PM
I think it goes without saying that the thing was posted by someone who spent the last 8 years complaining and whining about Obama and liberals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 20, 2017, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 20, 2017, 06:09:29 PM
These dudes wear leather jackets.

The Bikers for Trump look like the Village People, only not quite as stylish.  The black wifebeaters are a nice touch, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 20, 2017, 06:51:10 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 20, 2017, 06:14:37 PM
(https://external-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDzy1UxQmKow38Q&w=487&h=487&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent.cdninstagram.com%2Ft51.2885-15%2Fs750x750%2Fsh0.08%2Fe35%2F15048089_323086928063869_3452885313477672960_n.jpg%3Fig_cache_key%3DMTM3OTY5MDU2OTU4NDcxODQ5Nw%253D%253D.2&sx=0&sy=0&sw=750&sh=750&_nc_hash=AQB76-txF14yE5Jp)

Dunno what this is about.  America sucks!  My president told me that just today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2017, 07:27:21 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16142617_1848181438733096_4516572538373043804_n.jpg?oh=a13616a82879947f2073c8e76bf7d68d&oe=5906FAE4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 20, 2017, 08:11:52 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7FMt1fC.jpg&hash=29df427f1d69ffc8951c77b039140984c3650ef3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2017, 08:14:20 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 20, 2017, 08:16:35 PM
Hil
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 20, 2017, 08:26:53 PM
It's interesting that you can like but not dislike.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 20, 2017, 08:37:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 20, 2017, 08:26:53 PM
It's interesting that you can like but not dislike.

Not really. Facebook stemmed from friends so it'd be a bit odd to be able to dislike a friend's post. Also, there is now option to express sadness  (crying emoji) and anger (angry emoji).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 20, 2017, 10:10:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 20, 2017, 06:34:10 PM
So America only for white heteros?
It's either a great America or an america for everyone, you can't have it bothways, it seems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 20, 2017, 10:13:39 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2n5CfvXcAEk6_5.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2n5CfvXcAEk6_5.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 20, 2017, 10:25:27 PM
Oh Lord. What was she thinking  :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 20, 2017, 10:32:47 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 20, 2017, 10:25:27 PM
Oh Lord. What was she thinking  :lmfao:

Bonaparte. I think.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on January 20, 2017, 11:45:58 PM
HOTT
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on January 20, 2017, 11:48:25 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 20, 2017, 10:25:27 PM
Oh Lord. What was she thinking  :lmfao:

What you don't see in the blurry pic...

QuoteThe A-line, blue-and-white Gucci coat retails for $3,600. It features a red collar and ten brass buttons in the shape of wildcats.

"The feline head, a recurring animal motif, decorates the front panel of this a-line coat," the Gucci website read.

Meowtf.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 21, 2017, 12:18:06 AM
She's such a creepy weirdo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on January 21, 2017, 12:20:21 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 20, 2017, 11:48:25 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 20, 2017, 10:25:27 PM
Oh Lord. What was she thinking  :lmfao:

What you don't see in the blurry pic...

QuoteThe A-line, blue-and-white Gucci coat retails for $3,600. It features a red collar and ten brass buttons in the shape of wildcats.

"The feline head, a recurring animal motif, decorates the front panel of this a-line coat," the Gucci website read.

Meowtf.  :)
i blame Berkut.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2017, 08:22:08 AM
It's as if the French Revolution came back and started a cruise line.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2017, 08:29:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114531_1223544124394932_1884054403161061775_n.jpg?oh=4c7d65926be5fceaf24d429014bee431&oe=590594FF)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16142379_567612770103885_27954819606851985_n.jpg?oh=ba23694ff5bfbc22062bd7d305be0cbc&oe=59109CD8)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15894863_10158186111865515_4441817948367440148_n.jpg?oh=b947d3539348c9484f05d1cb18ca2ace&oe=591A5EBB)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114375_1866919443565524_7803012336150558045_n.jpg?oh=59739bae605586b75ad711ed9d961667&oe=5903FC97)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2017, 08:31:31 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 21, 2017, 08:29:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15894863_10158186111865515_4441817948367440148_n.jpg?oh=b947d3539348c9484f05d1cb18ca2ace&oe=591A5EBB)

Yes, we will always have fond memories of the 112th Congress.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2017, 08:34:53 AM
Yes, the military always appreciates getting saluted by people not in uniform.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 21, 2017, 09:21:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 21, 2017, 08:29:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114531_1223544124394932_1884054403161061775_n.jpg?oh=4c7d65926be5fceaf24d429014bee431&oe=590594FF)


Well it would be awkward if the Russian army showed up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 21, 2017, 09:27:00 AM
Damn, I can't imagine that the thread content could get any sillier over the next four years.


Of course I will proven wrong.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2017, 10:50:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p320x320/16114531_1358173220917323_5600085688891256878_n.jpg?oh=b96200d5d46e9fd4e8c5d99dc3d8aa9c&oe=590D12DC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 21, 2017, 10:58:03 AM
How much shit can there be in just 3-4 skulls?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 21, 2017, 10:58:35 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2017, 08:34:53 AM
Yes, the military always appreciates getting saluted by people not in uniform.

No doubt they'll make an exception for Mr. Flat Foot. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2017, 11:03:51 AM
Quote from: DGuller on January 21, 2017, 10:58:03 AM
How much shit can there be in just 3-4 skulls?

You'd be surprised!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114300_10158084536205494_5673448470696585875_n.jpg?oh=50fcc949ac2e5bcac46d1030d3e0631e&oe=591B744D)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15095608_10155224049811729_183679054846641852_n.jpg?oh=8bf85e85d299bb29be854fb73e0a79ef&oe=5906DDDC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 21, 2017, 11:05:20 AM
That was a rhetorical question.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 21, 2017, 11:31:12 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 21, 2017, 09:21:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 21, 2017, 08:29:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114531_1223544124394932_1884054403161061775_n.jpg?oh=4c7d65926be5fceaf24d429014bee431&oe=590594FF)


Well it would be awkward if the Russian army showed up.

Trump supporters are very dumb then. They should have got on the gravy train from Obama where you don't have to work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2017, 11:54:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114024_788593161279575_5107100051920106051_n.jpg?oh=5e3953d13783a2787fe98a4fe2e25505&oe=590E9244)


Also, no more Obama phones. :(

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16195633_1224050831010928_405029887912819053_n.jpg?oh=682d2b68fc68104331626f50e7387fe9&oe=591F32E2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2017, 12:07:59 PM
Those "free" phones happen to be law.

And anyway, iI thought the whole movement was about the myth of lost jobs, not about the myth of people who won't get jobs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2017, 12:19:05 PM
You underestimate the vindictiveness of the working poor versus welfare recipients.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 21, 2017, 12:46:55 PM
No shit. I hung out with a few yesterday.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 21, 2017, 12:49:38 PM
I call bullshit.  You would never hang out with welfare recipients.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114302_1750864768564965_506590909959914402_n.jpg?oh=b391701033627768ca74a0b2360440a1&oe=59150C20)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 21, 2017, 03:10:33 PM
Also, Trump referred to "freedom" only once, and liberty, zero. Funny, that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 21, 2017, 03:20:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 21, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114302_1750864768564965_506590909959914402_n.jpg?oh=b391701033627768ca74a0b2360440a1&oe=59150C20)

Sorry, but that won't fly.  Donald Trump publicly declared that he already ended the carnage, so you don't need guns.... unless Trump lied, in which case the alt-right has a lot bigger problem than "liberals."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2017, 03:35:14 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/16143288_1228023093899389_521619690271702735_n.jpg?oh=1b58c3a357b49fcc44ac73ecfb689c93&oe=591A2C87)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 21, 2017, 03:42:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2017, 12:46:55 PM
No shit. I hung out with a few yesterday.
wellfare recipients?  Since working poor are supposed to be working for a living, I'm guessing it was wellfare recipients.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 21, 2017, 03:49:37 PM
Aren't we due for a board upgrade, one where we can post direct video link with a [youtube] tag?

Anyway, I found this one yesterday night and it made me laugh:
https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/videos/10154967465176800/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on January 21, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
There's some truth among the retardation in that Brendan O'Neil post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 21, 2017, 04:33:53 PM
Quote from: Camerus on January 21, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
There's some truth among the retardation in that Brendan O'Neil post.
people already have jobs.  More jobs were created under Obama than under GW Bush.  The economy is doing better.  If people are stupid enough to vote for people that destroy their education system and then find themselves underqualified for the jobs available, it's their own fault.

if they really were rightwingers, they would assume their own responsibility instead of constantly whining on the internet.  If they had spent has much time reasearching the facts than posting shit on the 'net, they might have jobs now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 21, 2017, 05:24:16 PM
Quote from: Camerus on January 21, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
There's some truth among the retardation in that Brendan O'Neil post.
It's damned well-hidden.  Can you point it out (and, if it has the pronoun "you" in it, provided the antecedent)?  It looks like strawman all the way down from what i can see.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 22, 2017, 08:54:24 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16195335_956865857747654_2248337974693983522_n.jpg?oh=13303ab6cef48ab91e1910bcae18c05c&oe=591A8630)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14900467_433373560335989_7643924719191476735_n.jpg?oh=4f0f049c0738d552ede6d9b993bd6278&oe=58D679B4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 22, 2017, 09:30:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16113935_10155523876214881_6345059937612863882_n.jpg?oh=0cc707eb8a1e33c645fd1ce3123dbc20&oe=591DFD7E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 22, 2017, 10:41:13 AM
It's like Siegy's hard drive. So much meme porn.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 22, 2017, 11:33:49 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 22, 2017, 08:54:24 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16195335_956865857747654_2248337974693983522_n.jpg?oh=13303ab6cef48ab91e1910bcae18c05c&oe=591A8630)

See, now that's how you do insults!  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 23, 2017, 07:12:50 AM
This is a message from the government of The Netherlands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScZ_Vf0VxvI

It has something for everyone: Trump ridiculing and Denmark bashing. :lol: :ultra:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on January 23, 2017, 09:13:19 AM
Quote from: Liep on January 23, 2017, 07:12:50 AM
This is a message from the government of The Netherlands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScZ_Vf0VxvI

It has something for everyone: Trump ridiculing and Denmark bashing. :lol: :ultra:

I was going to post that  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 09:18:26 AM
:lol:  I about peed my pants when he said that disabled politician was from the Ministry of Silly Walks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 23, 2017, 09:20:10 AM
That was awesome.

America First!!...but the Netherlands second??? Please?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Archy on January 23, 2017, 09:29:45 AM
In their war with the Spaniards, they shoul've added that they bigly backstabbed their southern brothers, the losers than :glare:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on January 23, 2017, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: Archy on January 23, 2017, 09:29:45 AM
In their war with the Spaniards, they shoul've added that they bigly backstabbed their southern brothers, the losers than :glare:

Meh. You got a second chance in 1815, but nooooo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 23, 2017, 10:52:01 AM
Quote from: Archy on January 23, 2017, 09:29:45 AM
In their war with the Spaniards, they shoul've added that they bigly backstabbed their southern brothers, the losers than :glare:

So in history as taught in Belgium, the Union of Arras was created after the Union of Utrecht?  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 01:33:55 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqmvfzDg.jpg&hash=0ab96fd4a55bf34cc77223da0eb2db23cde2ca6c)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 01:41:44 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 01:45:26 PM
Here's a youtube remix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI8TzwBaHJo&t=10s
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 23, 2017, 01:49:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 01:45:26 PM
Here's a youtube remix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI8TzwBaHJo&t=10s

Glamorizing violence. :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 23, 2017, 01:51:08 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fconservativepost.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FSchermata-2017-01-16-alle-17.24.51.jpg&hash=182b71fc9be84a73784c02241f9282e32ec1d294)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 23, 2017, 02:15:43 PM
Rock on, Ted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 23, 2017, 02:21:33 PM
I don't think a Black Muslim is welcomed in ISIS.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 02:25:41 PM
Saw a report that Russia is saying the US is flying sorties with them out of Syria...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 02:33:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 23, 2017, 01:49:13 PM
Glamorizing violence. :weep:

http://thoughtsonthedead.com/on-the-propriety-of-punching-nazis-an-faq/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 03:24:17 PM
I don't have any moral objections to punching Nazis.  Nor to punching Commies, I guess.  Sucker punching and running away is a little cowardly, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 03:24:17 PM
I don't have any moral objections to punching Nazis.  Nor to punching Commies, I guess.  Sucker punching and running away is a little cowardly, though.

Live to fight another day :)

As for punching Commies, I thought your kind went in for shooting them?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 03:31:14 PM
Only when things get escalated.  Hell, in calm times I don't even want to punch them. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 03:31:14 PM
Only when things get escalated.  Hell, in calm times I don't even want to punch them.

In any case, I don't agree with your equating of Commies and Nazis - not in general, but most definitely not in the current political context.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 03:36:27 PM
Of course not-- the Commies aren't in power anymore :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 23, 2017, 03:36:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:28:08 PM
Live to fight commit assault another day :)

FTFY  :)

I must admit that i find it fascinating that so many can celebrate in people they share opinions with the very thing they bemoan in people with different opinions.

Smashing people in the face because you disagree with them is every bit as much a fascist move when done by leftists as when done by rightists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 23, 2017, 03:38:21 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 03:31:14 PM
Only when things get escalated.  Hell, in calm times I don't even want to punch them.

In any case, I don't agree with your equating of Commies and Nazis - not in general, but most definitely not in the current political context.

And that's why your "it's okay to punch nazis" reasoning falls apart.  There are other groups that are just as deplorable as nazis.  It's very much up for debate who counts as a nazi (Richard Spencer rejects the label).  It quickly becomes "it's okay to punch people you strongly disagree with", which is hardly any way to run a society.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:39:56 PM
I knew I could count on you guys :hug:

This addresses your points: http://thoughtsonthedead.com/on-the-propriety-of-punching-nazis-an-faq/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 23, 2017, 03:42:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:39:56 PM
I knew I could count on you guys :hug:

This addresses your points: http://thoughtsonthedead.com/on-the-propriety-of-punching-nazis-an-faq/

Seems like a bunch of snarky, bullshit replies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 23, 2017, 04:18:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 03:24:17 PM
I don't have any moral objections to punching Nazis.  Nor to punching Commies, I guess.  Sucker punching and running away is a little cowardly, though.

No shit.  Much more effective to stay there and keep punching.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 23, 2017, 04:22:24 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:39:56 PM
I knew I could count on you guys :hug:

This addresses your points: http://thoughtsonthedead.com/on-the-propriety-of-punching-nazis-an-faq/

I see your link, and raise you with:

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/we-asked-an-ethicist-if-its-ok-to-punch-nazis-in-the-face

The short answer:

QuoteVICE: So—punching Richard Spencer in the face, OK or not OK?
Randy Cohen: No. You don't get to punch people in the face, even if their ideas are odious. You don't. We want a civil society, where ideas are met with other ideas. We don't want a society that encourages thuggish behavior, where if someone has politics different from yours, you get to beat them up. Aside from it just being morally wrong in itself to assault people, there's the practical consideration that in a society where ideas are met with fists, one is as likely to be the punched as the puncher, and it's no fun to be punched in the face.

Although it's probably okay to be silently amused when Richard Spencer gets punched in the face. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 04:27:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 23, 2017, 03:42:05 PM
Seems like a bunch of snarky, bullshit replies.

So perfect for languish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 23, 2017, 04:30:21 PM
Why bother asking an ethicist, when there are plenty of kindergarten teachers around.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 04:35:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 23, 2017, 04:22:24 PM
Although it's probably okay to be silently amused when Richard Spencer gets punched in the face. :)

Spencer does run a magazine that asks questions such as "is the human race better off without Black people" and "if so, what is the best way to get rid of them?"

If that's enough for you to throw out your ethics and be silently amused, that's between you and your god (and, potentially, your ethicist).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 23, 2017, 05:13:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 23, 2017, 03:36:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:28:08 PM
Live to fight commit assault another day :)

FTFY  :)

I must admit that i find it fascinating that so many can celebrate in people they share opinions with the very thing they bemoan in people with different opinions.

Smashing people in the face because you disagree with them is every bit as much a fascist move when done by leftists as when done by rightists.

It's not that fascinating.  Most Americans are perfectly fine with dropping bombs on ISIS.  Because they aren't so keen on ISIS dropping bombs on us doesn't make them hypocrites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on January 23, 2017, 08:59:33 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 23, 2017, 03:24:17 PM
I don't have any moral objections to punching Nazis.  Nor to punching Commies, I guess.  Sucker punching and running away is a little cowardly, though.

Live to fight another day :)

As for punching Commies, I thought your kind went in for shooting them?

Thrown out of helicopters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 24, 2017, 02:15:12 AM
I'm starting to think there's somewhat of a Pavlov reflex for some connecting Hillary and Benghazi.

(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16142919_932580073539091_3525705940213634470_n.jpg?oh=e7b658ea6faf2ddc37f8b98966015d3b&oe=58FE9608)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 25, 2017, 12:23:38 AM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16174818_561596180711230_9063581373460465383_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=574ee7cd08e12235aa4a3da1ff62d54a&oe=59044B02)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 26, 2017, 05:51:24 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 04:35:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 23, 2017, 04:22:24 PM
Although it's probably okay to be silently amused when Richard Spencer gets punched in the face. :)

Spencer does run a magazine that asks questions such as "is the human race better off without Black people" and "if so, what is the best way to get rid of them?"

If that's enough for you to throw out your ethics and be silently amused, that's between you and your god (and, potentially, your ethicist).

LaBeouf is now at it.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jan/26/shia-labeouf-arrested-anti-trump-art-installation-he-will-not-divide-us-new-york

QuoteShia LaBeouf arrested at anti-Trump art installation in New York

Actor taken away by police following altercation at the site of his He Will Not Divide Us art installation, which is planned to run for Trump's first term

Shia LaBeouf has been arrested at the site of his permanent protest against new President Donald Trump. The actor, 30, was handcuffed by police on Wednesday evening, reportedly after a disagreement which involved LaBeouf assaulting a man with divergent political opinions.

The exact circumstances remain hazy. On a fan Twitter feed for #HeWillNotDivideUs, the name of LaBeouf's art installation protest, where the arrest took place, a 13 second video shows the actor briefly shoving a man who addresses the camera with the words "Hitler did nothing wrong".

"Hey," says the man. "Why did he attack me?" Later tweets from the same account expand the report by saying: "Shia was attacked by a Nazi. Shia got arrested. Nazi got away." This echoes a later video of fellow protesters who say: "Shia took a hit for us. There were all these Nazis here, he came out and tried to protect us."

The site TMZ claims that LaBeouf scratched the man and grabbed his scarf.

Law enforcement officials from the NYPD have been posted at the site since Monday. "He will not divide us" was co-created by LaBeouf, along with Nastja Säde Rönkkö and Luke Turner, and aims to run for the next four years – or as long as Trump is in office.

It involves a camera mounted on a wall outside the Museum of the Moving Image in Queens, New York. Passers by are invited to stand for as long as they wish in front of it repeating the phrase. The results are live-streamed.

On Sunday LaBeouf shouted down another protester by repeatedly yelling "He will not divide us" into his face.

I did like there was a commenter on the article who called out the bit in bold for being an interesting choice of phrasing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 07:40:12 AM
a memer got labeouf jailed :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 26, 2017, 09:16:24 AM
LOVE TRUMPS HATE
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 26, 2017, 09:24:34 AM
You're missing an apostrophe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 09:29:06 AM
garbon, do you really think that was a nazi?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 26, 2017, 10:10:36 AM
Did somebody say something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:04:39 AM
yea i did

here
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 09:29:06 AM
garbon, do you really think that was a nazi?

and here
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 07:40:12 AM
a memer got labeouf jailed :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 11:06:51 AM
So many LOLZ.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 11:10:59 AM
The nazi is not a nazi because he is trying to piss people off by saying nazi things and draw attention to himself and his nazi-like speech.  Which differs from real nazis in that they act the same way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 26, 2017, 11:16:02 AM
The question LaCroix asked wasn't whether or not the guy was really a Nazi;  it was whether or not Garbon thinks the guy was really a Nazi. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 26, 2017, 11:19:40 AM
I never question garbon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 11:10:59 AM
The nazi is not a nazi because he is trying to piss people off by saying nazi things and draw attention to himself and his nazi-like speech.  Which differs from real nazis in that they act the same way.

"hitler did nothing wrong" is a massive internet meme jokingly said by a shit ton of people. the only indication in the article that this guy was a nazi is that he said that meme
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:41:03 AM
"hitler did nothing wrong" is a massive internet meme jokingly said by a shit ton of people.

Wow. So hilarious.

So many LOLZ. It is so awesome to live in an era populated by such wits.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 11:45:00 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 11:10:59 AM
The nazi is not a nazi because he is trying to piss people off by saying nazi things and draw attention to himself and his nazi-like speech.  Which differs from real nazis in that they act the same way.

"hitler did nothing wrong" is a massive internet meme jokingly said by a shit ton of people. the only indication in the article that this guy was a nazi is that he said that meme

Right.  We just said the same thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 26, 2017, 11:45:56 AM
Quote from: dps on January 26, 2017, 11:16:02 AM
The question LaCroix asked wasn't whether or not the guy was really a Nazi;  it was whether or not Garbon thinks the guy was really a Nazi. 



And I don't think he's worth my time replying to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 11:42:39 AMWow. So hilarious.

So many LOLZ. It is so awesome to live in an era populated by such wits.

I'm glad I didn't live in an era that widely thought monty python was hilarious  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 11:47:54 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 11:42:39 AMWow. So hilarious.

So many LOLZ. It is so awesome to live in an era populated by such wits.

I'm glad I didn't live in an era that widely thought monty python was hilarious  :P

Indeed. I guess you live for hilarious statements like 'Mao was just misunderstood'

I will give you a few seconds so you can recover from your bouts of uncontrollable laughter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:50:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 11:47:54 AMIndeed. I guess you live for hilarious statements like 'Mao was just misunderstood'

I will give you a few seconds so you can recover from your bouts of uncontrollable laughter.

I never said I thought it was funny... I was explaining it to people who don't understand this culture and just attack it out of ignorance. it's dumb and silly, but it's not nazism
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 26, 2017, 11:51:49 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:46:27 AM
I'm glad I didn't live in an era that widely thought monty python was hilarious  :P

I'm also glad you didn't :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 26, 2017, 11:52:37 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 26, 2017, 09:24:34 AM
You're missing an apostrophe.

Or how about TRUMP HATES LOVE
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on January 26, 2017, 11:53:10 AM
LaCroix, time traveler from the past?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 11:53:48 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:50:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 11:47:54 AMIndeed. I guess you live for hilarious statements like 'Mao was just misunderstood'

I will give you a few seconds so you can recover from your bouts of uncontrollable laughter.

I never said I thought it was funny... I was explaining it to people who don't understand this culture and just attack it out of ignorance. it's dumb and silly, but it's not nazism

Ok but this was not said on the internet. If you take internet stuff off the internet, internet culture does not apply.

And do you know this dude? All we know is he said some pro-nazi shit. But now you 100% know what he is thinking because you are some expert on internet culture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 26, 2017, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 26, 2017, 11:52:37 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 26, 2017, 09:24:34 AM
You're missing an apostrophe.

Or how about TRUMP HATES LOVE

Lol
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 11:57:13 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 11:50:53 AM
I never said I thought it was funny... I was explaining it to people who don't understand this culture and just attack it out of ignorance. it's dumb and silly, but it's not nazism

Neither of us have access into the soul of the anonymous dude that trolled Shia LeBeouf so we can't really say for sure.  The more important point is that if the nazi-talking not-nazis are practically indistinguishable from the nazi-talking nazis in terms of what they do and say, does that distinction really matter?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:00:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 11:53:48 AMOk but this was not said on the internet. If you take internet stuff off the internet, internet culture does not apply.

And do you know this dude? All we know is he said some pro-nazi shit. But now you 100% know what he is thinking because you are some expert on internet culture.

people bring memes into the real world all the time. it's cringey as hell, but it happens.

no, all we know is he said meme shit. I don't know the history behind "hitler did nothing wrong." I don't know whether that was even a phrase before memers started saying it. but it has been so obviously adopted and transformed by the internet community that when a young guy says a meme phrase it's pretty damn likely he was using it as intended on the internet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 26, 2017, 12:02:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 26, 2017, 11:45:56 AM
Quote from: dps on January 26, 2017, 11:16:02 AM
The question LaCroix asked wasn't whether or not the guy was really a Nazi;  it was whether or not Garbon thinks the guy was really a Nazi. 



And I don't think he's worth my time replying to.

Probably the best way to look at it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 11:57:13 AMNeither of us have access into the soul of the anonymous dude that trolled Shia LeBeouf so we can't really say for sure.  The more important point is that if the nazi-talking not-nazis are practically indistinguishable from the nazi-talking nazis in terms of what they do and say, does that distinction really matter?

I think it does matter when you start labeling everyone a nazi just because they said "hitler did nothing wrong."  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:06:45 PM
man, with some of the meme culture stuff, it's like watching an alien species try to understand eccentric human activities
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 26, 2017, 12:07:33 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:00:02 PM. I don't know the history behind "hitler did nothing wrong.

Clearly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 12:07:52 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:00:02 PM
people bring memes into the real world all the time. it's cringey as hell, but it happens.

Well maybe they shouldn't do that. They might be held accountable for their speech and actions outside of the anonymity of the internet.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. It is called integrity and it is called living in the real world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:06:45 PM
man, with some of the meme culture stuff, it's like watching an alien species try to understand eccentric human activities

Sort of like trying to have a conversation with you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 12:10:33 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:05:50 PM
I think it does matter when you start labeling everyone a nazi just because they said "hitler did nothing wrong."  :huh:

People who appear and public and say hitler did nothing wrong assume the risk of being labelled a nazi.
If you don't want the label try a different meme.  Cat pictures, say.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 26, 2017, 12:14:03 PM
Okay

http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/cgi-bin/seigmiaow.pl
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 12:20:00 PM
On second thought the ChiComs have the right idea.  Ban the internet before it's too late.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:28:41 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 12:10:33 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:05:50 PM
I think it does matter when you start labeling everyone a nazi just because they said "hitler did nothing wrong."  :huh:

People who appear and public and say hitler did nothing wrong assume the risk of being labelled a nazi.
If you don't want the label try a different meme.  Cat pictures, say.

naturally, but that doesn't mean the person is actually a nazi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 26, 2017, 12:29:03 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:00:02 PM
people bring memes into the real world all the time. it's cringey as hell, but it happens.

no, all we know is he said meme shit. I don't know the history behind "hitler did nothing wrong." I don't know whether that was even a phrase before memers started saying it. but it has been so obviously adopted and transformed by the internet community that when a young guy says a meme phrase it's pretty damn likely he was using it as intended on the internet.

How is it intended to be used on the internet?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:35:25 PM
a joke. absurdist humor maybe? places like 4chan developed a culture over the years of saying random shit but not actually being serious about it. imagine it was "the earth is flat" rather than "hitler did nothing wrong." a person using the expression, "the earth is flat" doesn't literally mean the earth is flat -- it's a meme. (edit) this isn't even the best analogy because "the earth is flat" is an actual phrase. I don't think "hitler did nothing wrong" is even an actual phrase used by nazis. the idea behind it, sure, but not a repeatable phrase that nazis go around shouting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:36:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 12:08:36 PMSort of like trying to have a conversation with you.

I wasn't intending to insult anyone. I'm sure I wouldn't truly get really obscure cultural things that existed 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 26, 2017, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 12:20:00 PM
On second thought the ChiComs have the right idea.  Ban the internet before it's too late.

We may have discovered the Great Filter, why no intelligent life survives long enough to colonize the Universe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 12:44:28 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:36:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 12:08:36 PMSort of like trying to have a conversation with you.

I wasn't intending to insult anyone. I'm sure I wouldn't truly get really obscure cultural things that existed 20 years ago.

I think we all understand the idea behind internet memes and how people say things they shouldn't say in public behind the screen of the internet.

But once you leave the internet things are different. If you are going around saying nazi things I don't give a damn what is deep inside your heart. It could not be more irrelevant. You are what your actions say you are. Like I don't think Shia gets a pass because punch memes exist in his internet community.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 12:48:21 PM
The earth is flat is a metaphor, not a meme.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 26, 2017, 12:57:28 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:35:25 PM
a joke. absurdist humor maybe? places like 4chan developed a culture over the years of saying random shit but not actually being serious about it. imagine it was "the earth is flat" rather than "hitler did nothing wrong." a person using the expression, "the earth is flat" doesn't literally mean the earth is flat -- it's a meme. (edit) this isn't even the best analogy because "the earth is flat" is an actual phrase. I don't think "hitler did nothing wrong" is even an actual phrase used by nazis. the idea behind it, sure, but not a repeatable phrase that nazis go around shouting.

I think I get it.  You say something outrageous which you don't believe to be true as a kind of in-joke, to demonstrate that you're one of the ins who "gets it." For example I could say "LaCroix's mom deserves to be gang raped" to demonstrate my belonging to the group.  Then if I showed up at a LaCroix family gathering and repeated it my clever meme, you would criticize those who took offense because "it's just a meme."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 26, 2017, 12:57:43 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 12:35:25 PM
a joke. absurdist humor maybe? places like 4chan developed a culture over the years of saying random shit but not actually being serious about it. imagine it was "the earth is flat" rather than "hitler did nothing wrong." a person using the expression, "the earth is flat" doesn't literally mean the earth is flat -- it's a meme. (edit) this isn't even the best analogy because "the earth is flat" is an actual phrase. I don't think "hitler did nothing wrong" is even an actual phrase used by nazis. the idea behind it, sure, but not a repeatable phrase that nazis go around shouting.

The thing is, there are actually people who still believe that the Earth is flat, and those that believe that Hitler didn't do anything wrong (except, perhaps, lose the war).  If you go around saying those things, people are going to assume that you're either a fool or a Nazi or a jackass that's just trying to provoke someone (not that there isn't a lot of overlap there). 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 12:44:28 PMI think we all understand the idea behind internet memes and how people say things they shouldn't say in public behind the screen of the internet.

But once you leave the internet things are different. If you are going around saying nazi things I don't give a damn what is deep inside your heart. It could not be more irrelevant. You are what your actions say you are. Like I don't think Shia gets a pass because punch memes exist in his internet community.

so, if there was a comedian who used a specific type of humor you didn't understand but instead took at face value, you'd also lash out? as you said, intent is irrelevant. what the person actually intends is irrelevant to what he does. that's ridiculous, and I think if it was almost anything else you'd see it was ridiculous.

a person who punches someone is someone who punched someone. a person who says "hitler did nothing wrong" isn't just a person who said "hitler did nothing wrong," but he's now also a nazi?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:04:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 26, 2017, 12:57:28 PMI think I get it.  You say something outrageous which you don't believe to be true as a kind of in-joke, to demonstrate that you're one of the ins who "gets it." For example I could say "LaCroix's mom deserves to be gang raped" to demonstrate my belonging to the group.  Then if I showed up at a LaCroix family gathering and repeated it my clever meme, you would criticize those who took offense because "it's just a meme."

no. I would criticize if a member of the crowd, once the joke was explained to him, still believed you literally thought my mom deserved to be gang raped.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:05:51 PM
Quote from: dps on January 26, 2017, 12:57:43 PMThe thing is, there are actually people who still believe that the Earth is flat, and those that believe that Hitler didn't do anything wrong (except, perhaps, lose the war).  If you go around saying those things, people are going to assume that you're either a fool or a Nazi or a jackass that's just trying to provoke someone (not that there isn't a lot of overlap there).

exactly, and that's the person's fault for being dumb enough to say it. but that doesn't make it actually true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 26, 2017, 01:07:23 PM
I just saw the Shia LaBeouf video :lol:

he will not divide us...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:08:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 26, 2017, 01:07:23 PM
I just saw the Shia LaBeouf video :lol:

he will not divide us...

Shia LeBeouf will always unite us in agreeing he is a shitty actor who always portrayed douchebag characters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:09:53 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:05:51 PM
exactly, and that's the person's fault for being dumb enough to say it. but that doesn't make it actually true.

Who cares what is actually true? Without some kind of soul reading machine it is impossible to know what somebody truly thinks so it makes no difference. People are judged by their actions for a reason. It is called personal responsibility.

If you go around saying that you think Hitler did nothing wrong in public than people think you are the kind of person who says something like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:10:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:09:53 PMWho cares what is actually true?

you're right, alternative facts, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:12:02 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:10:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:09:53 PMWho cares what is actually true?

you're right, alternative facts, etc.

What somebody thinks deep in their heart is not a fact. What somebody does and says is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:12:02 PMWhat somebody thinks deep in their heart is not a fact. What somebody does and says is.

intent is not a fact?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 26, 2017, 01:13:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:08:50 PM
Shia LeBeouf will always unite us in agreeing he is a shitty actor who always portrayed douchebag characters.

He was very sympathetic in The Greatest Game Ever Played. Upstaged by his 10 year old caddie though.

Dakota, I agree that your guy may not be a Nazi qua Nazi, but anyone who buys into that meme crap is still a pathetic sociopath.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:14:45 PM
sure, why not. I'm not defending the meme stuff, and I never was
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:17:39 PM
my work here is done  :)

I hope you've seen the light, garbo
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:12:02 PMWhat somebody thinks deep in their heart is not a fact. What somebody does and says is.

intent is not a fact?

No.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 26, 2017, 01:24:54 PM
The White House gets furnished.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3HaumcXUAAoNzJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 26, 2017, 03:00:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:12:02 PMWhat somebody thinks deep in their heart is not a fact. What somebody does and says is.

intent is not a fact?

No.

I wouldn't say it's not a fact.  If you honestly intend something, that's a fact.  But it's not verifiable--no one else can know for sure. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 26, 2017, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: dps on January 26, 2017, 03:00:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:12:02 PMWhat somebody thinks deep in their heart is not a fact. What somebody does and says is.

intent is not a fact?

No.

I wouldn't say it's not a fact.  If you honestly intend something, that's a fact.  But it's not verifiable--no one else can know for sure.

Well sometimes you can know for sure.  That's what the entire distinction between murder and manslaughter is based on, for example.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 03:03:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 26, 2017, 03:01:51 PM
Well sometimes you can know for sure.  That's what the entire distinction between murder and manslaughter is based on, for example.

Yes but that intent itself is not a fact. It is something that can be proven through facts though. That and testimony.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 26, 2017, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 26, 2017, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: dps on January 26, 2017, 03:00:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:12:02 PMWhat somebody thinks deep in their heart is not a fact. What somebody does and says is.

intent is not a fact?

No.

I wouldn't say it's not a fact.  If you honestly intend something, that's a fact.  But it's not verifiable--no one else can know for sure.

Well sometimes you can know for sure.  That's what the entire distinction between murder and manslaughter is based on, for example.

But not in this context, though.  If a random person you don't know says something offensive, there's no objective way to know if he said if because he actually thinks it, if he doesn't actually believe it but was deliberately trying to provoke you, or if he doesn't really believe it but thought it would get a laugh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 06:37:53 PM
it's not a different context. intent is either a fact or it's not.

that something is difficult to prove doesn't make it a non-fact. valmy intends to support his child and wife. that is a fact because he actually does intend to do so. a fact can be intangible
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 26, 2017, 07:07:24 PM
Quote from: frunk on January 26, 2017, 11:53:10 AM
LaCroix, time traveler from the past?

Next, he'll claim to be a lawyer or a doctor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 07:08:28 PM
im not just a lawyer, im an attorney! :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 26, 2017, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 07:08:28 PM
im not just a lawyer, im an attorney! :)

Okay, Marti!  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 07:16:10 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 26, 2017, 07:30:13 PM
Meri should like this one ;)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14022268_1219223038170748_2209437033868422076_n.jpg?oh=ceb408617733abae976d756b9675a30d&oe=59012D73)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 07:30:45 PM
I think it is illegal for men to do that.

I do get a little tired of this false dichotomy that this is a men vs. women thing. If the women were all pro-choice this would not be an issue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 26, 2017, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 26, 2017, 07:30:13 PM
Meri should like this one ;)

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14022268_1219223038170748_2209437033868422076_n.jpg?oh=ceb408617733abae976d756b9675a30d&oe=59012D73)

The return of seduction laws!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 07:51:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 26, 2017, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on January 26, 2017, 07:08:28 PM
im not just a lawyer, im an attorney! :)

Okay, Marti!  :lol:

You are skeptical because it seems like he makes bad arguments.  But Trump's lawyers have that experience all the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 26, 2017, 08:22:19 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 26, 2017, 07:51:18 PM
You are skeptical because it seems like he makes bad arguments.  But Trump's lawyers have that experience all the time.

I am skeptical because he makes bad arguments for free.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 26, 2017, 08:29:46 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16142397_838481696290961_3143106722114994997_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=5b2e18f957898efd462c5045c52400e4&oe=5903F43F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 26, 2017, 08:46:39 PM
I laughed
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 26, 2017, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 07:30:45 PM
I think it is illegal for men to do that.

I do get a little tired of this false dichotomy that this is a men vs. women thing. If the women were all pro-choice this would not be an issue.
It's Facebook.  It's a meme on Facebook.  You can't seriously expect it to be a profound analysis of modern multi-faceted problematics?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 26, 2017, 09:24:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 26, 2017, 08:29:46 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16142397_838481696290961_3143106722114994997_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=5b2e18f957898efd462c5045c52400e4&oe=5903F43F)
LT?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 09:33:24 PM
Lieutenant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 26, 2017, 11:21:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 26, 2017, 01:08:50 PM
Shia LeBeouf will always unite us in agreeing he is a shitty actor who always portrayed douchebag characters.

He is an actual cannibal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 27, 2017, 06:11:19 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/16343616_10211963906564041_20778907_n.jpg?oh=8a479f38e75914b4984878707dc117f9&oe=588D8038)

Speaks for itself. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 28, 2017, 03:10:27 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16195194_934804696649962_2870730530980296430_n.jpg?oh=40dc6964306257e168bb7fd0d8722ff7&oe=59091C3D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on January 28, 2017, 05:12:07 AM
Needs more JPEG.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 28, 2017, 08:06:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 28, 2017, 03:10:27 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16195194_934804696649962_2870730530980296430_n.jpg?oh=40dc6964306257e168bb7fd0d8722ff7&oe=59091C3D)

Ah, the old multiple-choice quiz!  There is, indeed, one correct answer: he won't shut up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 28, 2017, 08:12:42 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on January 28, 2017, 11:53:13 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16387409_641227366080207_8896270342997449202_n.png?oh=3075b2c0221361a59ff70d15fa7a8472&oe=590386DB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on January 28, 2017, 11:58:09 AM
Wow
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 28, 2017, 12:05:37 PM
Quote from: Maladict on January 28, 2017, 11:58:09 AM
Wow

Yeah...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 28, 2017, 12:26:33 PM
Only wealthy douchebags wear cufflinks.  Wealthy douchebags, pimps and pimp wannabes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 28, 2017, 01:51:31 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16195005_1410777132274577_8337932878687310596_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=c52575e2486813324cc8f0f8d3016147&oe=58FECC45)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on January 28, 2017, 01:58:58 PM

Love the Bladerunner poster. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 28, 2017, 06:15:56 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16265330_902733396530227_1843682624775699393_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=0373995ec507e09dc2ebab9f8a9b79be&oe=59000143)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 28, 2017, 06:18:08 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16195899_901595053310728_360884661876482551_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=3415ba7bf5b27e15cea906a9e7befe30&oe=59483AD1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 28, 2017, 06:19:12 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16174796_901458643324369_6662698205217852247_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=fccfd578049aa36cefe12ab9e432138c&oe=591ACD55)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 28, 2017, 06:23:12 PM
Okay the last one was good :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 28, 2017, 06:23:44 PM
11B, you're quite a talented artist.  :cool:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 28, 2017, 06:30:11 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 28, 2017, 06:23:44 PM
11B, you're quite a talented artist.  :cool:

Surly not. Not mine. Jonathan Schmock
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 28, 2017, 06:33:51 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 28, 2017, 06:30:11 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 28, 2017, 06:23:44 PM
11B, you're quite a talented artist.  :cool:

Surly not. Not mine. Jonathan Schmock

Well I was being polite to be on the safe side, as it is those are a nice find.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 28, 2017, 08:13:56 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16402905_1398107993581662_3212215483828580617_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=ff0f62359ea7c2714096d68a3e3cddfb&oe=59493813)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 28, 2017, 09:46:27 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16298509_903366816466885_8637433462240902383_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=b07cd5f20c1e508a4071281eb3008c31&oe=594967E0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on January 29, 2017, 02:47:09 AM
Shouldn't she be the Queen of Hearts?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2017, 03:08:40 AM
Quote from: Zanza on January 29, 2017, 02:47:09 AM
Shouldn't she be the Queen of Hearts?

She has a jewellery brand, so I guess Queen of Diamonds makes sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2017, 05:59:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/16299297_1464802343538988_3095967765192086410_n.jpg?oh=f1e249c4bf2a01f90199c93229ad2ae1&oe=59124406)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2017, 10:37:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16298514_621160338079969_4790901175167689438_n.jpg?oh=10753745545b4805eef366d0b963e96d&oe=59150F3A)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16265411_1367324723335506_1309559534391749773_n.jpg?oh=d1de6c6b0d39f001948dce7adfa1eeb7&oe=591BD921)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 29, 2017, 11:34:52 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8idbQfU.jpg&hash=73b3b6c1cde31945780b13012b7c7cd8790393fe)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 29, 2017, 11:42:36 AM
 :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2017, 11:43:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16298514_621160338079969_4790901175167689438_n.jpg?oh=10753745545b4805eef366d0b963e96d&oe=59150F3A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 29, 2017, 11:45:48 AM
We now get them multiple times? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2017, 11:49:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 29, 2017, 11:45:48 AM
We now get them multiple times? :P

Hey, I do too! :P

:blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 29, 2017, 11:54:43 AM
:D :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 29, 2017, 11:56:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 29, 2017, 11:49:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 29, 2017, 11:45:48 AM
We now get them multiple times? :P

Hey, I do too! :P

:blush:

I was thinking about making a Facebook account for the kittens.  They have very strong feelings on these matters. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 29, 2017, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 29, 2017, 11:56:30 AM
I was thinking about making a Facebook account for the kittens.  They have very strong feelings on these matters.

You gonna untie both of their hands so they can touch-type, or keep one hand bound to the pole and make them hunt and peck?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 29, 2017, 01:50:53 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2017, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 29, 2017, 11:56:30 AM
I was thinking about making a Facebook account for the kittens.  They have very strong feelings on these matters.

You gonna untie both of their hands so they can touch-type, or keep one hand bound to the pole and make them hunt and peck?

I said "the kittens," not "my precious kittens."  Totally different.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 29, 2017, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 29, 2017, 01:50:53 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2017, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 29, 2017, 11:56:30 AM
I was thinking about making a Facebook account for the kittens.  They have very strong feelings on these matters.

You gonna untie both of their hands so they can touch-type, or keep one hand bound to the pole and make them hunt and peck?

I said "the kittens," not "my precious kittens."  Totally different.

Oh  :Embarrass:

So, will we see a Facebook page for your precious kittens?  :licklips:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 29, 2017, 02:42:47 PM
Facebook is for humans only.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 29, 2017, 03:22:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2017, 02:41:57 PM
So, will we see a Facebook page for your precious kittens?  :licklips:

Somebody needs to mind their business.  :mad:


Seriously though--before my job and subsequently my career were eliminated to increase shareholder valueTM, the one house I was looking at the month before the Murder and Acquisition announcement--a lovely little post-war Cape Cod that had been redone--had ABSOLUTELY the MOST ADORABLE little it-puts-the-lotion-in-the-bucket hideaway under the detached studio. Just one of those single-bare-lightbulb-swinging pits.  At least a good half-dozen missing teenage cheerleaders could fit in there at once.  At least.

It was soooo cute.  :wub:  Stupid Wall Street.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on January 29, 2017, 07:10:14 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPrOp2Kl.png&hash=9de8fd1fc72da01beaf6cd3903258d688197a0a2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 29, 2017, 07:29:13 PM
Quote from: sbr on January 29, 2017, 07:10:14 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPrOp2Kl.png&hash=9de8fd1fc72da01beaf6cd3903258d688197a0a2)

I like that one.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 29, 2017, 09:25:33 PM
Too bad the Orange part only works for the New Paradigm Daleks, and only some of them.

But yeah, I liked it, too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 29, 2017, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: dps on January 29, 2017, 09:25:33 PM
Too bad the Orange part only works for the New Paradigm Daleks, and only some of them.

Thank you, Augustus Dorkus Maximus :lol: :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on January 29, 2017, 10:09:18 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16299615_10154953479266779_6762079666874083496_o.jpg?oh=7c605ce6363217449a48428341876147&oe=59131D47)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 29, 2017, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on January 29, 2017, 10:09:18 PM
(snip)

Glad to see someone is keeping up with their quota of stupid on an otherwise slow day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 29, 2017, 11:00:37 PM
Is he grabbing Ivanka's ass?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 30, 2017, 01:36:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16299350_391745007825407_7479981807046806670_n.jpg?oh=fe03e01fd4f436c62b964fd3b8f7ba86&oe=58FE81AF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on January 30, 2017, 05:26:57 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsvBT3dd.jpg&hash=41d6971f58418f777cc41f777501e577e5a4be6f)

Nightmare fuel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 30, 2017, 06:41:52 AM
Awful, just awful. :x
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 30, 2017, 06:45:02 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 01:36:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16299350_391745007825407_7479981807046806670_n.jpg?oh=fe03e01fd4f436c62b964fd3b8f7ba86&oe=58FE81AF)

Because we do so much for illegal immigrants and refugees? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 30, 2017, 08:17:33 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforumcontent.paradoxplaza.com%2Fpublic%2F221674%2FIMG_2201.JPG&hash=efc5edb5b8e32fd89e7cdee5be70dee339b04a57)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 30, 2017, 08:19:22 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 08:17:33 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforumcontent.paradoxplaza.com%2Fpublic%2F221674%2FIMG_2201.JPG&hash=efc5edb5b8e32fd89e7cdee5be70dee339b04a57)

Fair.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 30, 2017, 08:27:19 AM
You've been too long in the wilderness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 30, 2017, 09:29:44 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 29, 2017, 11:00:37 PM
Is he grabbing Ivanka's ass?

I hope so.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 30, 2017, 09:33:53 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3YqndIVcAArEG_.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 30, 2017, 09:34:38 AM
Donald won't like this one bit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 30, 2017, 09:58:32 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 30, 2017, 09:34:38 AM
Donald won't like this one bit.

You have to wonder how much stuff like that at this point is just strategy.

Poking Trump where he is known to be sensitive in order to get a reaction is not a terrible plan...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 30, 2017, 10:10:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 30, 2017, 09:58:32 AM
Poking Trump where he is known to be sensitive in order to get a reaction is not a terrible plan...

It can be quite fun.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 30, 2017, 10:33:02 AM
Donald is easily trolled.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 30, 2017, 10:38:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/16299504_10158290527135515_6275542045364377620_n.jpg?oh=9a3adf0e39ce32f731e7e2953c1aa0ab&oe=5902A908)

:frusty:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 30, 2017, 10:57:20 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 30, 2017, 09:58:32 AM
Poking Trump where he is known to be sensitive in order to get a reaction is not a terrible plan...
That's what Obama did when he said he could have beaten Trump.  He was really furious on that one :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 30, 2017, 11:23:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 10:38:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/16299504_10158290527135515_6275542045364377620_n.jpg?oh=9a3adf0e39ce32f731e7e2953c1aa0ab&oe=5902A908)

:frusty:

He didn't think about building the walls that he already has? :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 30, 2017, 11:28:28 AM
It's the Vatican, not the Vaticant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 30, 2017, 01:32:06 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/16387961_937429136387518_6954225621656333037_n.jpg?oh=01877519889e2854d4388d3ae2741e64&oe=5916458C)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16265353_937371599726605_6131011521098396640_n.jpg?oh=d7ce6c3b4c0619cc7db3cfc3be6b9dc6&oe=5916BBAE)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16406714_1265851103460612_230151345379099623_n.jpg?oh=4604aaedade323bf9c1b2308b6e3a02d&oe=59014CEF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2017, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 01:32:06 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16406714_1265851103460612_230151345379099623_n.jpg?oh=4604aaedade323bf9c1b2308b6e3a02d&oe=59014CEF)

Well I'll be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 30, 2017, 01:52:20 PM
That should dispell the rumours of any Martians currently living in the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 30, 2017, 02:04:51 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 10:38:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/16299504_10158290527135515_6275542045364377620_n.jpg?oh=9a3adf0e39ce32f731e7e2953c1aa0ab&oe=5902A908)

:frusty:

The Pope recycles once again paganism, this time the title of pontifex, bridge maker.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 03:19:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2017, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 01:32:06 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16406714_1265851103460612_230151345379099623_n.jpg?oh=4604aaedade323bf9c1b2308b6e3a02d&oe=59014CEF)

Well I'll be.

It's since been superseded by a 1965 act.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 30, 2017, 03:21:00 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 01:32:06 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16265353_937371599726605_6131011521098396640_n.jpg?oh=d7ce6c3b4c0619cc7db3cfc3be6b9dc6&oe=5916BBAE)


What's with all the hangups on "missing work" on the fucking weekends already? :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 01:32:06 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/16387961_937429136387518_6954225621656333037_n.jpg?oh=01877519889e2854d4388d3ae2741e64&oe=5916458C)


If your sister wants to do more about the homeless, by all means, lets get some laws going.  I propose making it easier to get Medicaid for the mentally ill.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 30, 2017, 03:22:03 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16387198_937530709710694_6737565066989322028_n.jpg?oh=ae59d0c40966cb7bce84f00383df6733&oe=591B39E3)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16265186_231366347323990_864393496234340455_n.jpg?oh=e3e42c3dea5df03a139d31e412486439&oe=5904A21E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 30, 2017, 03:24:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 03:22:03 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16387198_937530709710694_6737565066989322028_n.jpg?oh=ae59d0c40966cb7bce84f00383df6733&oe=591B39E3)

Considering the #1 threat to American children remain their parents, your family members really need to stop, Syt.  Or at least remind them.  Or at least get their kids some clear heels already.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 03:26:24 PM
Hey, at least she's taking interest in the less fortunate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2017, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 03:19:00 PM
It's since been superseded by a 1965 act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

I couldn't see anything in this article that suggests the prez no longer has the power 8 US 1182.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 04:36:08 PM
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2017, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 04:36:08 PM
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152

Same.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 30, 2017, 06:46:40 PM
8 U.S.C. § 1182 is a statute that's a part of the immigration and nationality act. (8 USC § 1152 is also part of that act). section 1182(f) is what obama, bush, etc. used to justify legally similar executive orders
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 06:48:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2017, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 04:36:08 PM
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152)

Same.

Except as specifically provided in paragraph (2) and in sections 1101(a)(27) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/lii:usc:t:8:s:1101:a:27), 1151(b)(2)(A)(i) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/lii:usc:t:8:s:1151:b:2:A:i), and 1153 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1153) of this title, no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person's race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 30, 2017, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 30, 2017, 03:22:03 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16387198_937530709710694_6737565066989322028_n.jpg?oh=ae59d0c40966cb7bce84f00383df6733&oe=591B39E3)

Well I cannot wait to hear the aggressive anti-homeless program they want to unveil.

Anyway we have nothing but space. We could put millions of refugees in West Texas before anybody would even notice. Though I have been told settling up Refugees in un-populated areas of your country is inhumane somehow. I guess letting them stay in wartorn regions in camps is better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on January 30, 2017, 06:54:32 PM
raz, those statutes don't apply to the president exercising his powers under § 1182(f)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 30, 2017, 06:54:35 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 30, 2017, 03:21:00 PM
What's with all the hangups on "missing work" on the fucking weekends already? :lol:

The internet has achieved something remarkable. It has made me really hate the sight of Kermit the Frog. Thanks internet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 30, 2017, 07:32:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 06:48:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2017, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 04:36:08 PM
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152)

Same.

Except as specifically provided in paragraph (2) and in sections 1101(a)(27) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/lii:usc:t:8:s:1101:a:27), 1151(b)(2)(A)(i) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/lii:usc:t:8:s:1151:b:2:A:i), and 1153 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1153) of this title, no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person’s race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.

You're linking to and quoting a section of code that deals with per country quotas on immigration.  Trump's EO has nothing to do with those; as best as I can tell (though God knows what any given Federal court might rule) what you're talking about has no bearing on what Syt brought to our attention.  It appears that the President does actually have the legal authority to do what Trump's EO does.  Color me surprised.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 30, 2017, 07:56:03 PM
I am not surprised. Congress has been falling over itself to give all its power to the President for generations.

I read this Libertarian thingy on Redstate:

http://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/01/29/responding-andrew-mccarthy-legality-trumps-immigration-order/

QuoteResponding To Andrew McCarthy On The Legality Of Trump's Immigration Order

Yesterday morning I linked and discussed an op-ed in the New York Times by David J. Bier, arguing that President Trump's immigration order signed yesterday is illegal. Bier is described as "an immigration policy analyst at the Cato Institute's Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity." Andrew McCarthy at National Review responded to Bier with a piece that purports to rebut Bier's analysis. I am not an immigration lawyer and do not claim any expertise in this area, but I'm capable of reading a statute and a legal argument, and I thought a post that analyzed the arguments of Bier and McCarthy might be useful to people interested in the topic.

Before I get into the weeds, let me make a couple of general observations.

First, as Bier concedes, to the extent that Trump's order purports to suspend refugee status for refugees from Syria, Iraq, and other places, I believe it can do so — at least to the extent that no determination has yet been made with respect to a particular refugee. The controversy is not over refugee status but a more general suspension of immigration (the details of which I will discuss below.)

Second, Bier's argument is not that the United States has no control over its borders, but that decisions to deny immigration to everyone from a particular country is a decision that must be made by Congress, not the President. Nothing in Bier's argument says the U.S. is helpless in the face of developments in another country.

Third, this post does not address a judge's decision last night granting a stay of certain actions pursuant to Trump's executive order. The analysis of this post may be relevant to the litigation of that case, but we don't know yet, as the judge has not yet released a written explanation of her reasoning.

Now, to the details. Bier argues: "The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 banned all discrimination against immigrants on the basis of national origin." At issue is this section of Trump's order:

QuoteI hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).

Bier argues that suspending entry of people from specific countries, as Trump's order does, amounts to discriminating on the basis of nationality or place of residence, in violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1152:

QuoteExcept as specifically provided in paragraph (2) and in sections 1101(a)(27), 1151(b)(2)(A)(i), and 1153 of this title, no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person's race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.

Bier says: "Mr. Trump may want to revive discrimination based on national origin by asserting a distinction between 'the issuance of a visa' and the 'entry' of the immigrant. But this is nonsense. Immigrants cannot legally be issued a visa if they are barred from entry."

Bier notes that Trump relies in part on a 1952 law "that allows the president the ability to 'suspend the entry' of 'any class of aliens' that he finds are detrimental to the interest of the United States." But, Bier argues, this provision was overruled by the later 1965 amendments present in section 1152 quoted above.

McCarthy responds to this argument in several ways. His arguments are dismissive of textualism, and give excessive deference to executive power.

DISMISSING TEXTUALISM

McCarthy argues that Trump's order and Congress's statute (section 1152) are not in conflict, and casts textualism to the wind as he does so:

Quote[T]his provision is not as clearly in conflict with Trump's executive order as Bier suggests. As he correctly points out, the purpose of the anti-discrimination provision (signed by President Lyndon Johnson in 1965) was to end the racially and ethnically discriminatory "national origins" immigration practice that was skewed in favor of Western Europe. Trump's executive order, to the contrary, is in no way an effort to affect the racial or ethnic composition of the nation or its incoming immigrants.

In essence, McCarthy is saying: even if the text says the President can't discriminate on the basis of nationality or place of residence, that was designed to address nasty and mean discrimination by racist types, not good discrimination based on a desire to protect the country. McCarthy is asking us to ignore the text and look at the hearts of the legislators.

This is the same mushy and standardless sort of textual interpretation that leftists love to use when there is a clear textual provision they don't like. Remember the Halbig case, which went to the Supreme Court in the companion case of King v. Burwell? There was a clear textual provision ("established by the State") which the Supreme Court read out of the law based on their personal interpretation of Congress's intent. I don't like this sort of analysis when the left uses it, and so I don't like it when the right uses it either.

EXCESSIVE DEFERENCE TO EXECUTIVE POWER

McCarthy also argues that the Constitution empowers the President to protect citizens: "the president's clear constitutional authority to protect the United States would take precedence over Congress's dubious authority to limit the president's denial of entry to foreign nationals." In other words, it doesn't matter what Congress says about who comes into the country because that's up to the President.

This argument fails as an initial matter because (as Dan McLaughlin has pointed out) it is Congress, not the President, which has plenary power under the Constitution "to exclude aliens or prescribe the conditions for their entry into this country." It can delegate a conditional exercise of that power, but if it prohibits that power from being exercised in a certain manner, the President cannot overrule Congress.

This argument goes to the heart of how citizens feel about executive power. The argument that we should read all kinds of implied authority into the President's Article II powers reminds me of the debate over Bush's wiretapping. As I explained in 2013:

QuoteI never bought into Bush's Article II justifications, which struck me as too much of an assertion of kingly powers, but for a while, I bought the argument that FISA authorized Bush to conduct the wiretaps. I ultimately changed my mind in 2008, because FISA explicitly provided for a declaration of war, meaning the AUMF could not implicitly authorize what the statute had already expressly prohibited

My views changed because of my interpretation of the statute passed by Congress. But folks like McCarthy, who is of a rather more authoritarian bent when it comes to fighting the scourge of Islamic terrorism, always argued that what Congress said in this area didn't much matter. McCarthy argued that Bush had the inherent power under the Constitution to conduct the wiretapping, and if Congress tried to pass a law like FISA to the contrary, it had no business doing so.

That sort of analysis flies in the face of the analysis of the Youngstown Sheet & Tube case relating to Harry Truman's illegal seizure of steel plants, ostensibly for the purposes of national security. Presidents will always cite national security as a reason to overstep their bounds, and there will always be authoritarians there to applaud. But in the Youngstown case, Justice Jackson's famous concurring opinion set the standard for how sweeping claims of executive power are to be analyzed, and this quote is vitally relevant:

QuoteWhen the President takes measures incompatible with the expressed or implied will of Congress, his power is at its lowest ebb, for then he can rely only upon his own constitutional powers minus any constitutional powers of Congress over the matter. Courts can sustain exclusive presidential control in such a case only by disabling the Congress from acting upon the subject. Presidential claim to a power at once so conclusive and preclusive must be scrutinized with caution, for what is at stake is the equilibrium established by our constitutional system.

In other words, when the President acts against a law passed by Congress, he had better be exercising a power clearly given to him and him alone by the Constitution. But McCarthy's attempts to establish an Article II power in this area, like the Bush wiretapping, fall flat. He cites Thomas Jefferson speaking about the President's authority in "the transaction of business with foreign nations." But in the very next paragraph McCarthy is forced to concede that Congress has constitutional authority "to establish the qualifications for the naturalization of citizens."

What this means is that, as already noted, granting legal status to aliens is a matter for Congress, not the President. And when a President takes measures that are incompatible with the provisions of a statute passed by Congress regarding immigration, his powers are at their "lowest ebb" and his actions cannot be sustained.

The contrary view, resting on the President's national security authority, can be taken to absurd lengths. I have already noted that Presidents always rely on national security or emergencies to stomp on the Constitution, whether they are locking citizens in internment camps, seizing steel mills or railroads, or grabbing citizens' gold. And once you extend this authority into the area of immigration, you're essentially giving up any argument that Congress has a say in deciding who comes into the country and who doesn't. Once we concede that the President can say who comes in and who stays out as a matter of national security, we give up our ability to argue against almost any immigration order issued by a President — including President Obama.

Indeed, Obama tried to justify DAPA, his sweeping unconstitutional amnesty, in terms of our national security. In the United States's brief in United States v. Texas, at pages 11-12, the Solicitor General wrote:

QuoteDeferring action for these individuals, the Secretary continued, would support "this Nation's security and economic interests and make{s} common sense, because {it} encourage{s} these people to come out of the shadows, submit to background checks, pay fees, apply for work authorization (which by separate authority I may grant), and be counted."

See what I mean? Presidents cite national security for literally everything. If you let them, they will run completely amok — and tell you they have to, so you can be safe.

THE VISA WAIVER PROGRAM

McCarthy also argues as follows:

QuoteTrump's executive order also expressly relies on an Obama-era provision of the immigration law, Section 1187(a)(12), which governs the Visa Waiver Program. This statute empowers the executive branch to waive the documentation requirements for certain aliens. In it, Congress itself expressly discriminates based on country of origin.

. . . .

So, not only has Congress never repealed the president's sweeping statutory power to exclude classes of aliens from entry on national-security grounds; decades after the 1965 anti-discrimination provision touted by Bier, Congress expressly authorized discrimination on the basis of national origin when concerns over international terrorism are involved. Consequently, by Bier's own logic, the 1965 statute must be deemed amended by the much more recent statute.

McCarthy says the executive order "relies on" section 1187(a)(12) . . . but the only citation of that provision is the language I already quoted above, which, as a reminder, is here:

QuoteI hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order . . .

It's not clear to me precisely what McCarthy is arguing here. He says section 1187(a)(12) allows the executive to waive certain visa requirements — but that's not what Trump is doing here. He says Trump "relies on" that provision, but it reads to me like Trump is citing it merely as a reference to a list of countries. Interpreting McCarthy's argument as charitably as I can, I interpret it as an analogy: Congress itself has discriminated against certain countries, so therefore Trump can do so here as well.

But that begs the question to be decided: does the President have authority to do this on his own? Please understand: I'm not saying Congress couldn't undertake the actions Trump took in this order. I'm saying Congress could — but that the President can't, alone, if Congress has already told him he can't.

Yes, Congress can change its mind, and if McCarthy is right that Congress has carved out an exception to the discrimination ban by virtue of the provisions in section 1187(a)(12), that would indeed amend the 1965 amendments embodied in 8 U.S.C. section 1152 cited above.

But I don't see how that provides authority to discriminate against these countries in ways unrelated to the waiver of certain visa requirements, which is what section 1187(a)(12) actually seems to cover.

In other words, just because Congress has changed its mind in one area does not mean Trump can in another.

ODDS AND ENDS

I'm also puzzled by this argument from McCarthy:

QuoteBier concedes that, despite the 1965 anti-discrimination statute, President Jimmy Carter barred entry by Iranian nationals in 1980, after the Khomeini revolution led to the U.S.-hostage crisis. But he treats Carter's restriction based on national origin as an aberration.

That's not what Bier says. McCarthy makes it sound as though the Carter action provided a clear precedent against the non-discrimination law, but Bier argues that, to the contrary, it was not:

QuoteJimmy Carter barred certain Iranians during the 1980 hostage crisis, but the targets were mainly students, tourists and temporary visitors. Even then, the policy had many humanitarian exceptions. Immigrants continued to be admitted in 1980.

This is important because, as Bier has already explained earlier in the op-ed, the discrimination ban does not apply to students, tourists, or other temporary visitors:

QuoteNote that the discrimination ban applies only to immigrants. Legally speaking, immigrants are those who are given permanent United States residency. By contrast, temporary visitors like guest workers, students and tourists, as well as refugees, could still be barred.

Bier is not saying the Carter order was a mere aberration. He is saying it does not violate the discrimination ban passed by Congress in 1965. That is a very different argument.

Ultimately, McCarthy's piece, praised by many who support Trump's order on a policy level, is revealed to be overly deferential to the executive. It applies a legal framework for interpreting legislative texts that rejects textualism and would make lefties smile. It appears to misunderstand the difference between Congress's authority to change its mind on an immigration matter, and a President's ability to reject Congress's judgment in this area. And finally, it misstates the arguments of Bier, the target of his criticism.

It could be that Bier is ultimately wrong and that Trump's order is legal. But not, I think, for the weak reasons offered by Andrew McCarthy.

UPDATE: At the risk of making a long post even longer and harder to get through, I think that the best argument for the legality of the executive order is the argument (made by my commenter shipwreckedcrew) that the 1965 non-discrimination provision (section 1152(a)) did not explicitly amend the language of the 1952 broad grant of authority to suspend entry pursuant to section 1182(f). Bier argues that, because the 1965 provision came later, it limits the broad grant of authority given in 1952, and did not have to do so explicitly.

I think Bier's argument is even more persuasive when you note that the non-discrimination provision in section 1152(a) says it applies "[e]xcept as specifically provided in paragraph (2) and in sections 1101(a)(27), 1151(b)(2)(A)(i), and 1153 of this title." In other words, Congress carved out specific exceptions to the general nondiscrimination rule, and section 1182(f) was not one of the listed exceptions. That analysis strongly indicates that the rule of section 1182(f) is not an exception to the nondiscrimination rule in section 1152(a).

The counterargument is that if Congress wanted to change the broad grant of authority in section 1182(f), they would have rewritten section 1182(f). I think this is wrong, because lawmakers enact broad principles all the time without specifically rewriting every other previous law to which the broad provision might apply. If Congress says: "the federal government will from this point forward no longer use race as a factor in employment decisions" then Congress doesn't have to rewrite or repeal every previous provision in law that might have conflicted with this new and broad provision. It would be better practice to do so, but they don't have to.

The same analysis applies here: the later, broader provision, not carving out an exception for the President's previous broad grant of authority, limits that broad grant.

Until, that is, Congress says otherwise.

Seems to me the same kind of wishful thinking that narrow constructionists like to indulge in. That Congress is going to be out there directing policies and steering the country while the President just sits back there and executes their laws and stuff. You know, the US that never was.

Pretty sure Trump CAN do this. And many other things. Hey wasn't this the exact situation we were always warned about when it came to the Presidency?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 08:44:45 PM
Quote from: dps on January 30, 2017, 07:32:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 06:48:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2017, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 04:36:08 PM
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152)

Same.

Except as specifically provided in paragraph (2) and in sections 1101(a)(27) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/lii:usc:t:8:s:1101:a:27), 1151(b)(2)(A)(i) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/lii:usc:t:8:s:1151:b:2:A:i), and 1153 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1153) of this title, no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person's race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.

You're linking to and quoting a section of code that deals with per country quotas on immigration.  Trump's EO has nothing to do with those; as best as I can tell (though God knows what any given Federal court might rule) what you're talking about has no bearing on what Syt brought to our attention.  It appears that the President does actually have the legal authority to do what Trump's EO does.  Color me surprised.

Ah, okay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 08:49:39 PM
I want to know why Syt's sister is so damned interested in Kermit drinking ice-tea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 30, 2017, 08:51:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 08:49:39 PM
I want to know why Syt's sister is so damned interested in Kermit drinking ice-tea.

I see lefties deploying it to.

There is a stupid statement, usually involving lies or false equivalency, along with some sort of statement about how 'but it is none of my business'.

It is the worst. Or rather I wish it was the worst. So many terrible memes out there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 30, 2017, 09:11:42 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fusuncut.news%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2F2017-01-29_18-15-29.jpg&hash=50aeff41c487dc0e59bb1628e7ec80e6abcae516)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 09:34:46 PM
I kind a feel sorry for Spicer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 31, 2017, 01:02:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 08:44:45 PM
Quote from: dps on January 30, 2017, 07:32:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 06:48:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 30, 2017, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 04:36:08 PM
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1152)

Same.

Except as specifically provided in paragraph (2) and in sections 1101(a)(27) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/lii:usc:t:8:s:1101:a:27), 1151(b)(2)(A)(i) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/lii:usc:t:8:s:1151:b:2:A:i), and 1153 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1153) of this title, no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person's race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.

You're linking to and quoting a section of code that deals with per country quotas on immigration.  Trump's EO has nothing to do with those; as best as I can tell (though God knows what any given Federal court might rule) what you're talking about has no bearing on what Syt brought to our attention.  It appears that the President does actually have the legal authority to do what Trump's EO does.  Color me surprised.

Ah, okay.

Don't give up so easily.  1152 is not limited to per country quotas.  The text does not contain that limitation, indeed its clear implication is that it applies to the entire title except for the enumerated exceptions in the opening clause.  The case law supports this broader application: a DC circuit case applied it to strike down a State Dept policy refusing to process visa applications from Vietnamese people at the HK consulate, which was not a per country quota issue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 31, 2017, 01:21:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16298613_1315170901862851_695636122920361855_n.jpg?oh=bf8f7763cf9597b49163c76b26872770&oe=5905335D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 31, 2017, 01:39:59 AM
Another interesting wrinkle: 1182(f) gave the President certain powers to restrict "entry" - which was a defined term under the old immigration statute.  But the "entry" definition was removed in the 1996 amendments.  Anyone know any relevant post 1996 case law on 1182(f)?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 31, 2017, 01:41:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 31, 2017, 01:21:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16298613_1315170901862851_695636122920361855_n.jpg?oh=bf8f7763cf9597b49163c76b26872770&oe=5905335D)

I recommend a decent GED program.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 31, 2017, 08:06:40 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/f6/3e/a7/f63ea7976baca0ca59a199dd78abc68f.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 31, 2017, 08:44:39 AM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16402988_1934965576723647_3629044018080655668_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=0f81da537fe33048c3dba1136687534a&oe=594685E3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 31, 2017, 08:48:20 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 08:49:39 PM
I want to know why Syt's sister is so damned interested in Kermit drinking ice-tea.

...but that's none of my business.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 08:49:17 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2017, 08:48:20 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 30, 2017, 08:49:39 PM
I want to know why Syt's sister is so damned interested in Kermit drinking ice-tea.

...but that's none of my business.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 10:22:43 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16427297_1679459775398327_5263970897126338975_n.jpg?oh=f4c56df87cc13e54ecdba47979401c77&oe=59012221)

Fortunately Syt's relatives seem eager to pick up the tab for us.

But 20 billion doesn't seem like much money. It seems like we should be able to do all three.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on January 31, 2017, 11:41:42 AM
One of my friends' wall has just introduced me to the world of socialist Sonic memes:

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16387961_887900822698_666388836666547894_n.jpg?oh=8f16ca77c30699d45fac1413599d276e&oe=59451DD2)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s350x350/16298916_10102956322687432_8746245212217116709_n.jpg?oh=622f2d91c31d7c62619e2c9c56296f1f&oe=590709AD)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sonicretro.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F08%2Fsocialism.png&hash=398806aa21c6a70da036dd7a6b51da948a5b454f)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 31, 2017, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 10:22:43 AM
But 20 billion doesn't seem like much money.

It's more than the entire annual budget of ICE and CBP put together.  It's a ridiculous misallocation of resources.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 11:43:49 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 31, 2017, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 10:22:43 AM
But 20 billion doesn't seem like much money.

It's more than the entire annual budget of ICE and CBP put together.  It's a ridiculous misallocation of resources.

Hey! We are spending 1 trillion on infrastructure projects.

And it will get millions of American born American citizens out there working on building walls in the desert. People will line up for miles to work on this wall. Unemployment will be solved. It will be huge.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 11:44:21 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 31, 2017, 11:41:42 AM
One of my friends' wall has just introduced me to the world of socialist Sonic memes:

Just like Socialism, Sonic was shown to be shit many years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 31, 2017, 11:50:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 11:43:49 AM
Hey! We are spending 1 trillion on infrastructure projects.

And it will get millions of American born American citizens illegal Mexican construction workers out there working on building walls in the desert.

Fixed
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 31, 2017, 11:52:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 11:44:21 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 31, 2017, 11:41:42 AM
One of my friends' wall has just introduced me to the world of socialist Sonic memes:

Just like Socialism, Sonic was shown to be shit many years ago.

:o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 31, 2017, 11:57:09 AM
At the UK protest, the Socialists were selling their newspaper. Isn't that a capitalistic venture - taking advantage of a sales opportunity to 'sympathetic' crowds?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 31, 2017, 12:03:28 PM
At the DC Women's March there were PSL folks in several groups desperately handing out brochures about Marxism-Leninism. I wanted to pick one up and laugh in their faces as I read it.  :nelson:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 31, 2017, 12:46:53 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C28SpxAVEAAv2_v.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 31, 2017, 12:57:23 PM
Omg pink hat commonality!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 12:58:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2017, 11:52:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 11:44:21 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 31, 2017, 11:41:42 AM
One of my friends' wall has just introduced me to the world of socialist Sonic memes:

Just like Socialism, Sonic was shown to be shit many years ago.

:o

Too hard on Sonic? Sorry I just feel like they ran the franchise into the ground and it was not even that strong to begin with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 31, 2017, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 31, 2017, 12:46:53 PM
*Shut up Megs

Sent to everyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 31, 2017, 02:53:23 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16299228_10210801251564029_2186855284006010317_n.jpg?oh=fccd9aaf5182c5aca4d40b195b869b2b&oe=5949D12D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 31, 2017, 02:54:42 PM
I love when they pick old times presidents whose policies wouldn't be acceptable today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 03:01:20 PM
I hate false equivalencies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 31, 2017, 03:21:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 31, 2017, 03:01:20 PM
I hate false equivalencies.

Know who else hated false equivalencies? 

Hitler, that's who.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 31, 2017, 09:34:20 PM
QuoteReporter's Notebook China
Fake Donald Trump tweets filling up Chinese social media
Netizens have created over a million fake tweets in English and Chinese mocking the 45th US president.
aljazeera.com

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeera.com%2Fmritems%2FImages%2F2017%2F1%2F27%2F843b29e617c449ef97a15b54579b7155_18.jpg&hash=6a695ce7048daff765e428d5f6ca789d2d42e8fa)


Twitter is blocked in China. Without the help of VPN services, people cannot log on to the site to reach information unfiltered by the Chinese government.

But that doesn't mean internet savvy users cannot poke fun at the newly inaugurated US president.

As the Lunar New Year is right around the corner, officially starting on Saturday and marks a fresh start for the Year of the Rooster, netizens are faking tweets using Donald Trump's Twitter handle @realdonaldtrump.

With the help of a start-up application called Jike, downloadable from the Chinese app store, one can enter any content and a snapshot is created, often with the same distinctive exclamation mark and bitter or outraged tone used by the president himself.

Jike said on Thursday that in only four days, users had created more than a million fake Trump tweets in Chinese and English.

"Make your Chicken Year Great Again!" A succinct and powerful one.

"Happy Chinese New Year, and please be generous in giving out red envelopes!" is a common phrase, mocking the Chinese New Year tradition of giving out red envelopes with cash inside, usually from the elders to the youngsters.

"All the universities should cancel the homework and exams for Chinese students to enjoy the Spring Festival!" This one obviously comes from a student attending after-school classes in the fierce competition to excel in his final exams.

"I get all five Fu in Zhifubao, but where is Red Bao? Where is the money? Look, this is how Chinese fool our American. Sad!" :lol: With some grammar mistakes, this Trump tweet mocks China's biggest online shopping company Alibaba, which recently launched a Pokemon-style game rewarding users if they collect enough photos of Fu - the Chinese equivalent of Christmas ornaments.

Some of the "tweets" are in Chinese characters only, but they still fooled quite a few people, who thought the new president was making efforts to mend ties between China and the US.

With the environment of free speech further tightened under Xi Jinping's administration, making fun of the American president seems to have become the new political correctness.

Fake Trump tweets are filling up Chinese social media without censorship. With a 15-day long nationwide festival about to start, why not have some fun?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 31, 2017, 10:26:23 PM
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16298378_10102390568034674_7129438599406745428_n.jpg?oh=b32bbb8a3f84b0f126294712b54993bb&oe=5949C912)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 31, 2017, 10:29:54 PM
I get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 01, 2017, 12:22:57 AM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16387010_905223099614590_5678778864620471124_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=de539ec8f82a7afc40124578b3661093&oe=58FD847F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 01, 2017, 10:55:15 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16298618_948057061996618_2578059749178054995_n.jpg?oh=8a3ac69d2b05642a1183d012c70f480f&oe=59084714)

:bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 01, 2017, 01:22:43 PM
That is one confused baby.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 01, 2017, 01:27:38 PM
At least he's not drinking iced tea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on February 01, 2017, 01:34:21 PM
https://twitter.com/TrumpDraws
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 01, 2017, 02:19:59 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 31, 2017, 08:44:39 AM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16402988_1934965576723647_3629044018080655668_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=0f81da537fe33048c3dba1136687534a&oe=594685E3)

I would contribute money towards a project to blow that up to billboard size and stick it somewhere public where Trump can't miss it....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 01, 2017, 08:58:42 PM
Trump Draws:

https://twitter.com/TrumpDraws?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 01, 2017, 09:36:49 PM
Ed?


(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16387966_1303217639731535_4130644236207492264_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=2bc7d857d77e5d336606ab3b598fef21&oe=59117285)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 01, 2017, 09:37:30 PM
Mine is motorized.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 02, 2017, 11:13:19 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16299117_906508442819389_3017884763025722222_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=46e5118511f34ddd01ea38eb4a2a504a&oe=58FE3409)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on February 03, 2017, 06:16:43 AM
Half my Facebook feed is Beyoncé preggy photos. I guess all is well again?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2017, 06:24:03 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 03, 2017, 06:16:43 AM
Half my Facebook feed is Beyoncé preggy photos. I guess all is well again?

Well you don't have to be happy in a marriage to have kids.

At any rate, I really don't understand the excitement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on February 03, 2017, 09:07:47 AM
Swedish Deputy PM trolls the Donald when signing climate change law:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3vJBjUWEAAtW9M.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2017, 09:26:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16406811_1832795160294276_7805341032112750314_n.jpg?oh=81296aead328640d1952dd8fd925769a&oe=5940968B)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16406686_410762819263295_7031819805291932355_n.jpg?oh=b9161c39bafb72af1fdbd2e43388caf6&oe=59025DF9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 03, 2017, 09:31:15 AM
liberal rapist is using the trump method.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 03, 2017, 10:08:11 AM
Quote from: Liep on February 03, 2017, 09:07:47 AM
Swedish Deputy PM trolls the Donald when signing climate change law:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3vJBjUWEAAtW9M.jpg)

Could you explain the trollery?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2017, 10:11:11 AM
All women looking on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 03, 2017, 10:36:19 AM
No diversity in Sweden?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 03, 2017, 12:58:46 PM
Trump deserves to be trolled that way, but I don't think steering the conversation to "men=bad, women=good" hurts him or his support base in any kind of way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2017, 01:00:19 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 03, 2017, 12:58:46 PM
Trump deserves to be trolled that way, but I don't think steering the conversation to "men=bad, women=good" hurts him or his support base in any kind of way.

I would guess they were not trying to say that with that photo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 03, 2017, 01:09:06 PM
Those are some dour-looking broads. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2017, 01:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2017, 01:09:06 PM
Those are some dour-looking broads. 

Well they are Swedes. They haven't seen the sun in months.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 03, 2017, 01:14:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2017, 01:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2017, 01:09:06 PM
Those are some dour-looking broads. 

Well they are Swedes. They haven't seen the sun in months.

Have too. On TV.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:15:00 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 03, 2017, 01:14:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2017, 01:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2017, 01:09:06 PM
Those are some dour-looking broads. 

Well they are Swedes. They haven't seen the sun in months.

Have too. On TV.

According to some Norwegians, the sun always shines there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2017, 01:15:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2017, 01:09:06 PM
Those are some dour-looking broads.

That's the satire. They look as constipated as a Trumpeter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:17:45 PM
It also appears to be a response to this:

(https://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/trumpsignscabinet.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 03, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
Ah!  So they're saying Bannon is pregnant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Sure looks like he's eating for two.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2017, 01:26:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
Ah!  So they're saying Bannon is pregnant.

Pregnant with Leninist ideas to bring down the system!!!111
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2017, 01:34:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Sure looks like he's eating for two.

The fat shaming on this board sometimes...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2017, 01:34:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Sure looks like he's eating for two.

The fat shaming on this board sometimes...

I can do it, I'm bigger than Bannon.  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2017, 01:35:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2017, 01:34:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Sure looks like he's eating for two.

The fat shaming on this board sometimes...

I can do it, I'm bigger than Bannon.  :blush:

So is this like "only black people can use the n-word"? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2017, 01:39:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2017, 01:35:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2017, 01:34:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Sure looks like he's eating for two.

The fat shaming on this board sometimes...

I can do it, I'm bigger than Bannon.  :blush:

So is this like "only black people can use the n-word"? :hmm:

I don't think so. Like when a pot bellied man calls a woman fat. Still so inappropriate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:41:05 PM
Well, I wouldn't do that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2017, 01:43:15 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:41:05 PM
Well, I wouldn't do that.

Not saying you would. Just pointing out how it differs from the n word. :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 03, 2017, 01:43:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:41:05 PM
Well, I wouldn't do that.

But you'd call a man fat? Sexist!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 03, 2017, 03:36:45 PM
It's okay to call men fat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2017, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 03, 2017, 03:36:45 PM
It's okay to call men fat.

Whatever you say, fatso.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 03, 2017, 03:52:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2017, 01:34:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Sure looks like he's eating for two.

The fat shaming on this board sometimes...

I can do it, I'm bigger than Bannon.  :blush:

I really doubt that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2017, 03:14:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16425793_1352410291446435_2675076618248543774_n.jpg?oh=36891aeb148e0bf45376c7bc60d71e56&oe=590D7521)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 06, 2017, 10:42:12 AM
Syt - good point from the FB pic but I have a feeling Mr. Trump is not going to be thrilled about the vetting criteria, unless he finds a very thin camel fast.

Then again, he's got a good chance of being successful in the other place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2017, 11:50:44 AM
California is DOOMED!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16387317_1280720648674144_4854693168165887263_n.jpg?oh=5f19ef44ca4447bbc43bd932cfd6eb26&oe=59048C4D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 11:54:34 AM
I have to question their ability to gather accurate citizenship records for existing gang members.

But #9 is why we need to reform. The economic benefits of immigrants make it impractical to regulate to the extent we want to and we can see the results on this list. George W Bush came into the White House ready to solve this problem but his own party refused to budge. Anytime they want to come up with a practical solution would be great.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on February 06, 2017, 11:58:43 AM
Of course, in California the illegals/undocumented workers pay taxes.  They are just never going to see any of that money.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:12:49 PM
I like how the American taxpayer is FOOTING THE BILL but somehow we might have gotten trillions of dollars of economic activity out of it. Is our investment paying off?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on February 06, 2017, 12:17:28 PM
I saw some Trumptard complaining that 10% of jobs in CA are taken by illegals (might be false, not that this lot cares much for the truth). I see that CA has unemployment a hair over 5%, and I doubt that many in this 5% will care for the kind of jobs that illegals can have (gardeners, movers, farm pickers...)

So it looks like CA needs those illegals, and it would be better if we found ways so these guys can stop being illegals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:19:41 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 06, 2017, 12:17:28 PM
I saw some Trumptard complaining that 10% of jobs in CA are taken by illegals (might be false, not that this lot cares much for the truth). I see that CA has unemployment a hair below 5%, and I doubt that many in this 5% will care for the kind of jobs that illegals can have (gardeners, movers, farm pickers...)

So it looks like CA needs those illegals, and it would be better if we found ways so these guys can stop being illegals.

We're the same. Which is why both Perry and Bush tried to do things for the immigrants. But in the current atmosphere of the Republican Party that is no longer possible. Now we must sacrifice our economy and well being at the altar of...whatever principle is at stake.

If by some magic the immigration laws were all 100% platonically enforced the economy would melt down. Hence why it never will be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 06, 2017, 11:58:43 AM
Of course, in California the illegals/undocumented workers pay taxes.  They are just never going to see any of that money.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freplygif.net%2Fi%2F961.gif&hash=e4c9660bc8f6238480ee290fa60088d9fdb6f36c)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2017, 12:37:49 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 06, 2017, 11:58:43 AM
Of course, in California the illegals/undocumented workers pay taxes.  They are just never going to see any of that money.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freplygif.net%2Fi%2F961.gif&hash=e4c9660bc8f6238480ee290fa60088d9fdb6f36c)

They do.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:39:47 PM
You have some messed up shit going on.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:39:47 PM
You have some messed up shit going on.



Government policies that completely ignore economic realities tend to be pretty messed up shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:55:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:39:47 PM
You have some messed up shit going on.



Government policies that completely ignore economic realities tend to be pretty messed up shit.

What I mean is that somebody can be both an illegal alien, AND be legally able to pay taxes. Unless we are talking about people who have their asylum request pending, I don't see how in a civilised country you can have such chaos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 06, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
Its their use of the word illegal & we think it's people hiding in false basements from the Nazis but the reality is far from that.

Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:55:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:39:47 PM
You have some messed up shit going on.



Government policies that completely ignore economic realities tend to be pretty messed up shit.

What I mean is that somebody can be both an illegal alien, AND be legally able to pay taxes. Unless we are talking about people who have their asylum request pending, I don't see how in a civilised country you can have such chaos.
Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:39:47 PM
You have some messed up shit going on.

This is the country where the IRS wants you to pay taxes on your illegal drug money income. Doesn't care that it's illegal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:55:08 PM
What I mean is that somebody can be both an illegal alien, AND be legally able to pay taxes. Unless we are talking about people who have their asylum request pending, I don't see how in a civilised country you can have such chaos.

Our country was designed to be chaotic. It is what freedom is all about.

There is always that quote:
QuoteAmericans are the only race which passed directly from barbarism to decadence without knowing civilization.

No idea who said it though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 06, 2017, 12:57:56 PM
Chaos was quite far from the Founding Father's ideal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2017, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:55:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:39:47 PM
You have some messed up shit going on.



Government policies that completely ignore economic realities tend to be pretty messed up shit.

What I mean is that somebody can be both an illegal alien, AND be legally able to pay taxes. Unless we are talking about people who have their asylum request pending, I don't see how in a civilised country you can have such chaos.

Well if you are using a fake social security card, technically you aren't 'legally' paying taxes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2017, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 06, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
Its their use of the word illegal & we think it's people hiding in false basements from the Nazis but the reality is far from that.

Indeed. After all said individuals are often seen protesting for rights, can in some states gets driver's licenses, in-state discounts at state universities, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 06, 2017, 01:02:14 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 06, 2017, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 06, 2017, 11:58:43 AM
Of course, in California the illegals/undocumented workers pay taxes.  They are just never going to see any of that money.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freplygif.net%2Fi%2F961.gif&hash=e4c9660bc8f6238480ee290fa60088d9fdb6f36c)

Goddamn, Tamas, you are ugly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on February 06, 2017, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 06, 2017, 11:50:44 AM
California is DOOMED!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16387317_1280720648674144_4854693168165887263_n.jpg?oh=5f19ef44ca4447bbc43bd932cfd6eb26&oe=59048C4D)
Wow, 2.3 trillion dollar was about 18% of the US GDP in 2005 and illegals were at most 5% or so of the US population in that year. They are the most productive workers in the history of mankind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 06, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:56:31 PM
Our country was designed to be chaotic. It is what freedom is all about.

There is always that quote:
QuoteAmericans are the only race which passed directly from barbarism to decadence without knowing civilization.

No idea who said it though.

Clemenceau, or so I have heard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 06, 2017, 01:43:14 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 06, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
This is the country where the IRS wants you to pay taxes on your illegal drug money income. Doesn't care that it's illegal.
It's the same in here.  You have to pay GST&PST on your drug sales.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 01:54:05 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 06, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
Clemenceau, or so I have heard.

Not him. Or if he did he never wrote it down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2017, 02:05:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 01:54:05 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 06, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
Clemenceau, or so I have heard.

Not him. Or if he did he never wrote it down.

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/12/07/barbarism-decadence/

Summary there is that it was originally about Russia but some newspaper person in France in the 30s changed it over to America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 06, 2017, 02:16:13 PM
Quote from: Zanza on February 06, 2017, 01:23:25 PM
Wow, 2.3 trillion dollar was about 18% of the US GDP in 2005 and illegals were at most 5% or so of the US population in that year. They are the most productive workers in the history of mankind.

The blurb didn't say that those companies accounting for 18% of GDP employed nothing but illegals.  One illegal mowing the grass at Apple would be enough. On the other hand the writer doesn't seem to understand profit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2017, 03:10:10 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/s720x720/16463166_313661712365377_2344842600206486507_o.jpg?oh=22b8a849766f1a6f439555cb236db678&oe=593CEDA2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2017, 03:13:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 06, 2017, 03:10:10 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/s720x720/16463166_313661712365377_2344842600206486507_o.jpg?oh=22b8a849766f1a6f439555cb236db678&oe=593CEDA2)

:lol:

OK. At least it isn't fake though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 03:13:57 PM
How is he living proof of that? He is still alive?

Anyway. Right. 99% of the time. What about that other 1%?

Anyway I hoped this would be a good look at shortcomings in police training and priorities as well processes for dealing with what to do with something bad does happen.

Instead it became this bizarre partisan fight where it seems we are presented with this false binary choice. So depressing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on February 06, 2017, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 03:13:57 PM
Anyway. Right. 99% of the time. What about that other 1%?

The writer doesn't seem to understand math. If 1% of encounters between black people and police end up in violence the dead toll would probably be in the thousands.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2017, 03:28:59 PM
Quote from: celedhring on February 06, 2017, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 03:13:57 PM
Anyway. Right. 99% of the time. What about that other 1%?

The writer doesn't seem to understand math. If 1% of encounters between black people and police end up in violence the dead toll would probably be in the thousands.  :hmm:

It isn't the writer. The man pictured said that when interviewed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on February 06, 2017, 03:36:12 PM
Snopes says it's a real quote. Fair enough then.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on February 06, 2017, 04:00:53 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 06, 2017, 12:55:26 PM

This is the country where the IRS wants you to pay taxes on your illegal drug money income. Doesn't care that it's illegal.


:yes: Bribes, too.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpAjRFKX.jpg&hash=21d69b8da210ca04765cba3c2247a6d1e2eed5fb)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2017, 04:01:33 PM
If I include a bribe, or drug money, is that then evidence to be used against me that I am taking bribes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 04:02:06 PM
What about money I receive from my protection rackets?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 04:02:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2017, 04:01:33 PM
If I include a bribe, or drug money, is that then evidence to be used against me that I am taking bribes?

Maybe the real reason Trump doesn't want to release his taxes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2017, 04:05:09 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2017, 04:01:33 PM
If I include a bribe, or drug money, is that then evidence to be used against me that I am taking bribes?

I think, having briefly googled, that you include the income but don't state where it comes from. I guess though that could be then used as evidence if you won't say the source of said income.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 06, 2017, 04:05:26 PM
I read that factoid about 10% of California's workforce being illegal in the Economist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on February 06, 2017, 04:07:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 04:02:06 PM
What about money I receive from my protection rackets?

Yeah. Can I deduct police bribes? They kill my margins.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2017, 04:09:06 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16406831_676925089159814_8079777342861308163_n.jpg?oh=9b3577ccddb208586e548240a433852f&oe=5908FB76)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 06, 2017, 04:14:33 PM
I didn't vote for Trump. Alternative facts?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2017, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 06, 2017, 04:14:33 PM
I didn't vote for Trump. Alternative facts?

Oh, you just think you didn't. In all the ways you legally can, you did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2017, 04:54:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/colddeadhands/videos/1265377106844497/

QuoteWATCH THIS!

This years BEST Superbowl Commercial!

FOX stuns the left with this no-holds-barred finger to the flag burning, anti America dirt bags that call our country home.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 04:59:34 PM
Oh that flag thing? Huh I guess I didn't think it was an attack. Just a 'Murica!' type deal.

For a no holds barred attack it kind of fell flat. Why would the left be stunned by that?

'leftists are STUNNED by 4th of July Holiday!!!111'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2017, 05:23:41 PM
The oriny of someone making a statement like "no-holds-barred finger to the flag burning, anti America dirt bags that call our country home." I am sure is lost on them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on February 06, 2017, 06:09:23 PM
The boy scouts burn flags.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 06, 2017, 09:26:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 04:02:06 PM
What about money I receive from my protection rackets?
You still have to pay up to the biggest protection racket of all.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 06, 2017, 09:55:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 11:54:34 AM
But #9 is why we need to reform.

I'd suggest we eschew making policy based on data that was made up in 2005.  I'm sure we could find more recent lies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 06, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2017, 04:01:33 PM
If I include a bribe, or drug money, is that then evidence to be used against me that I am taking bribes?

I think, that in theory, information provided to the IRS for tax purposes can only be used against you in court if you're accused of cheating on your taxes.  I'm not sure that I'm correct about that, and even if I am, I wouldn't want to trust that some clever prosecutor couldn't find a way to make it incorrect in practice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 06, 2017, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: dps on February 06, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2017, 04:01:33 PM
If I include a bribe, or drug money, is that then evidence to be used against me that I am taking bribes?

I think, that in theory, information provided to the IRS for tax purposes can only be used against you in court if you're accused of cheating on your taxes.  I'm not sure that I'm correct about that, and even if I am, I wouldn't want to trust that some clever prosecutor couldn't find a way to make it incorrect in practice.

It certainly can provide probable cause.  That law exists to create a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't dilemma for crooks:  get investigated for the criminal act, or for the tax evasion necessary to hide the criminal act.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 06, 2017, 10:50:28 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 06, 2017, 10:34:06 PM
It certainly can provide probable cause.  That law exists to create a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't dilemma for crooks:  get investigated for the criminal act, or for the tax evasion necessary to hide the criminal act.
Which to me seems a bit questionable constitutionally, at least in spirit.  It's almost like you're forcing someone to incriminate themselves or rack up new charges, which goes against the fundamental protections provided.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 06, 2017, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 06, 2017, 10:50:28 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 06, 2017, 10:34:06 PM
It certainly can provide probable cause.  That law exists to create a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't dilemma for crooks:  get investigated for the criminal act, or for the tax evasion necessary to hide the criminal act.
Which to me seems a bit questionable constitutionally, at least in spirit.  It's almost like you're forcing someone to incriminate themselves or rack up new charges, which goes against the fundamental protections provided.

Yeah, I think that's why in theory, the information provided to the IRS is only supposed to be used for tax purposes--you're required to report all income, so using the information you provide against you violates the 5th Amendment protection against self-incrimination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 07, 2017, 07:39:03 AM
Quote from: dps on February 06, 2017, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 06, 2017, 10:50:28 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 06, 2017, 10:34:06 PM
It certainly can provide probable cause.  That law exists to create a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't dilemma for crooks:  get investigated for the criminal act, or for the tax evasion necessary to hide the criminal act.
Which to me seems a bit questionable constitutionally, at least in spirit.  It's almost like you're forcing someone to incriminate themselves or rack up new charges, which goes against the fundamental protections provided.

Yeah, I think that's why in theory, the information provided to the IRS is only supposed to be used for tax purposes--you're required to report all income, so using the information you provide against you violates the 5th Amendment protection against self-incrimination.

I think that's why your theory is wrong.  The IRS can collect only the fact of the income, not its source (the USSC has ruled that the latter would be self-incrimination, but not the former).  What I have seen indicates that the IRS can, and does, report the fact of the illegal income to law enforcement for criminal investigation as appropriate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 07, 2017, 09:19:54 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16603096_909069885896578_6751904183483986915_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=75ca167769170cdc5634b28b82506d0a&oe=59014310)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on February 07, 2017, 12:25:01 PM
(https://i.redd.it/1wz97cof6gey.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 07, 2017, 12:37:50 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 07, 2017, 05:44:58 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16473440_960462044084426_6269629850362713476_n.jpg?oh=be4750480094da014f8604ccbd4f34cb&oe=590A1DB8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 07, 2017, 06:23:48 PM
Because they are assholes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 07, 2017, 06:46:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 07, 2017, 06:23:48 PM
Because they are assholes?

Who?  The people who make the posters with bullshit made-up "facts," or the people* who put them on facebook?


*not aimed at you at all, garbo - you are doing us a service here
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 08, 2017, 07:40:26 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16473094_943551315775300_7090859487120077864_n.jpg?oh=936e8add94c74d85fb69643503e07fd4&oe=591034A0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on February 08, 2017, 07:47:07 AM
So what they're saying is, skip the war and just wait for them to die from tuberculosis?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 08, 2017, 10:36:29 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 08, 2017, 12:21:36 PM
I think someone just fantasizes about shooting protesters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 08, 2017, 12:30:56 PM
I don't. :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 08, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 08, 2017, 12:30:56 PM
I don't. :ph34r:

Oh, we know what you fantasize about. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 08, 2017, 01:48:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 08, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 08, 2017, 12:30:56 PM
I don't. :ph34r:

Oh, we know what you fantasize about. :rolleyes:

Machiavellian plans about putting people in gaol?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 08, 2017, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2017, 01:48:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 08, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 08, 2017, 12:30:56 PM
I don't. :ph34r:

Oh, we know what you fantasize about. :rolleyes:

Machiavellian plans about putting people in gaol?

There's nothing Machiavellian about those plans. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 09, 2017, 06:14:17 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p240x240/16473667_1381240975232423_6765903423162021896_n.jpg?oh=e700384888d1cafcdcd6563c115ace7c&oe=593A8BDA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 09, 2017, 06:24:45 AM
 :lol:

We do have "Homeless Americans welcome here" signs, they're just spelled "No Loitering"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 09, 2017, 06:50:10 AM
I liked Samantha B's taken on this. She was like, seriously? Liberals have a very large capacity to care about a lot of causes all at once (homelessness being a long standing leftist cause*). And then added that they'd even likely fight for the rights of ignorant Trump supporters when Trump comes after their rights.

*when I was in SF, they were building brand new housing units that were only available to homeless individuals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 09, 2017, 06:58:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 09, 2017, 06:50:10 AM


*when I was in SF, they were building brand new housing units that were only available to homeless individuals.

:rolleyes:

That's what the mainstream wants you to think. OBVIOUSLY, they were built for refugees.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 09, 2017, 07:28:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 09, 2017, 06:50:10 AM
Samantha B's

Mouthy slutwhore. Not even a B cup.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 09, 2017, 07:30:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/16508056_629751147220888_4871833643469078834_n.jpg?oh=647fcfbee61a77c58c8e8225f163b77c&oe=590A9F62)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 09, 2017, 07:31:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 09, 2017, 06:50:10 AM
I liked Samantha B's taken on this. She was like, seriously? Liberals have a very large capacity to care about a lot of causes all at once (homelessness being a long standing leftist cause*). And then added that they'd even likely fight for the rights of ignorant Trump supporters when Trump comes after their rights.

*when I was in SF, they were building brand new housing units that were only available to homeless individuals.

It's even funnier, because these things get posted by people complaining if anyone gets "free" handouts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 09, 2017, 07:58:32 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 09, 2017, 07:30:18 AM
*your average "Seriously?' pic*

Seriously?

Syt, is this all from the same feed from your extended family?  How can these people maintain this tempo?  Are they this angry all the time?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 09, 2017, 08:03:07 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 09, 2017, 07:58:32 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 09, 2017, 07:30:18 AM
*your average "Seriously?' pic*

Seriously?

Syt, is this all from the same feed from your extended family?  How can these people maintain this tempo?  Are they this angry all the time?

It's between auto generated posts of Facebook games, quiz results, recipes and generic jokes/nostalgia posts. It's mostly my oldest sister, she has dozens and dozens of posts on her wall each day. My other sisters and family are much more restrained (though their material also features prominently in this thread).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 09, 2017, 08:04:03 AM
Good grief.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 09, 2017, 08:04:05 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 09, 2017, 06:58:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 09, 2017, 06:50:10 AM


*when I was in SF, they were building brand new housing units that were only available to homeless individuals.

:rolleyes:

That's what the mainstream wants you to think. OBVIOUSLY, they were built for refugees.

Mainstream SF media? Talk about a contradiction in terms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 09, 2017, 08:43:07 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 09, 2017, 08:04:03 AM
Good grief.

She's German, so it's Unternehmen Greif.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 09, 2017, 08:47:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/16299376_1637311596578447_3469249650068310111_n.jpg?oh=f4425bfe65f59ff137ec8326826c4b3c&oe=594710F9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 09, 2017, 02:09:14 PM
SytSis has a point on that last one.  Military is a key path to free educational and other benefits  . . . for immigrants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 09, 2017, 02:31:14 PM
NO SMOKING in today's military :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 09, 2017, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 09, 2017, 02:31:14 PM
NO SMOKING in today's military :angry:

Absoolutly duspicabul!!11
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 09, 2017, 04:30:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 09, 2017, 02:31:14 PM
NO SMOKING in today's military :angry:

Sgt. Stryker would be alive today if he didn't pull out those smokes on Suribatchi and went instead to the salad bar, you know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 09, 2017, 06:04:53 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 09, 2017, 08:47:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/16299376_1637311596578447_3469249650068310111_n.jpg?oh=f4425bfe65f59ff137ec8326826c4b3c&oe=594710F9)

Eh, I'm okay with that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 09, 2017, 06:08:58 PM
It's not really free then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 09, 2017, 07:44:01 PM
I think there are similar programs with teachers.  I would extend other types of public service.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 09, 2017, 08:03:20 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16602848_1422763481150035_4238100650945188667_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=7d2f409135b7fa8abfb226e647d6d399&oe=59480AFC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 10, 2017, 01:23:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16507895_1927576234144128_5147425461680272404_n.jpg?oh=2239144c341f721ea2bc9c81a52aadc5&oe=593B0C06)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16174566_1390504837669065_828535731757030441_n.jpg?oh=e3713c0ae2b7b4ee720c3717d8187029&oe=59364DDA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 10, 2017, 01:51:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16473263_1283078511747758_3036115302376898847_n.jpg?oh=ca22a065f9fd2de0dc985537d3105480&oe=59067683)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 10, 2017, 02:47:32 AM
 :lol:

I won't even get started on the vegetable garden one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 10, 2017, 02:51:59 AM
I'm sure zombie Reagan finds the protests quite comical.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 10, 2017, 08:13:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16115030_661835107357354_3724970753300161207_n.jpg?oh=fddc8461987cbfed2769dce00197940e&oe=593C3D17)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on February 10, 2017, 08:16:07 AM
So they keep posting this stuff but do they actually give a shit about vets, the homeless or pensioners?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 10, 2017, 08:20:39 AM
Quote from: Liep on February 10, 2017, 08:16:07 AM
So they keep posting this stuff but do they actually give a shit about vets, the homeless or pensioners?

Their husbands are ex-military (but not combat veterans), so maybe about veterans at least?

Considering that my oldest sister at least is teh p00r, I doubt they give to charity. And I don't think they're doing volunteer work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 10, 2017, 08:27:04 AM
It was a horrible mistake by the ruling elites to underestimate the proportion of irrational fear generated by the news of mass of coloureds approaching the borders.

It has had a big impact on Brexit, it clearly garners big support for Trump, and we have France and Germany in danger of falling to nazis.

I am not saying it was a mistake of letting refugees in, but perhaps more lipservice should have been paid to being careful about ramifications of it and such.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 10, 2017, 08:33:22 AM
Quote from: Liep on February 10, 2017, 08:16:07 AM
So they keep posting this stuff but do they actually give a shit about vets, the homeless or pensioners?

Let alone those in Australia?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 10, 2017, 08:51:10 AM
I didn't know vegetable were that expensive. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 10, 2017, 09:04:40 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2017, 08:51:10 AM
I didn't know vegetable were that expensive.

Look what those trump supporters are costing America now.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 10, 2017, 12:02:01 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 10, 2017, 08:27:04 AM
It was a horrible mistake by the ruling elites to underestimate the proportion of irrational fear generated by the news of mass of coloureds approaching the borders.

Except there is/was no such mass.  Immigration has been way down in the US since 07.  Refugee admissions were up a bit last year but not unusually high by historical standards.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 10, 2017, 12:18:01 PM
Farmers, and Founders, and WWII G.Is, and Vietnam, and The Great Depression. These people's political imagination resides in White America: The Theme Park.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 10, 2017, 07:45:21 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4OwiKaWMAIK3Gv.jpg:large)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 10, 2017, 07:49:19 PM
Nice  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 10, 2017, 08:09:54 PM
 :P

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fmp%2FPYfU6c_Tshol.jpg&hash=bee2f3dec73c918268c598aabf1993960e56c008)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 10, 2017, 08:12:46 PM
(https://pics.onsizzle.com/nowonder-liberals-are-so-confused-black-indian-woman-reverend-scientist-8806668.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 10, 2017, 08:20:20 PM
Warren doesn't look anything like Garbon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 10, 2017, 08:22:04 PM
but they both look like a loser :lol: lol
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 10, 2017, 08:23:43 PM
Do you enjoy South Park?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 10, 2017, 08:25:05 PM
no, I don't enjoy many comedies
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 10, 2017, 08:35:05 PM
Who let you the fuck back in, anyway?  Did I not lock the cell door or something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 10, 2017, 08:37:49 PM
that was mean
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 10, 2017, 08:41:05 PM
You had too much sugar and caffeine again, and were talking crazy talk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 10, 2017, 08:48:55 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 10, 2017, 08:41:05 PM
You had too much sugar and caffeine again, and awere talking crazy talk.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 11, 2017, 12:14:10 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16602775_911605302309703_5814851927022544516_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=1e4f574b109677c77ec6159c1647d0a3&oe=5902A5CC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 11, 2017, 07:11:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16640812_1284063465007888_6303052784394057784_n.jpg?oh=9ae142fa743c1f7397c49dfe1c6bb881&oe=59370CA3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 11, 2017, 07:55:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 11, 2017, 07:11:39 AM
(snip image)

I wonder if the people who write this pap are at all aware of how insulting it is to American Indians to assert that there was/is just one "Native American culture?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on February 11, 2017, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 11, 2017, 07:55:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 11, 2017, 07:11:39 AM
(snip image)

I wonder if the people who write this pap are at all aware of how insulting it is to American Indians to assert that there was/is just one "Native American culture?"

They all look alike too.


A tasteless remark, but pitched at the same level as the picture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on February 11, 2017, 10:55:01 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4XgMYbWEAAfSxy.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 11, 2017, 11:04:50 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 11, 2017, 11:28:04 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 11, 2017, 02:25:49 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 23, 2017, 03:39:56 PM
I knew I could count on you guys :hug:

This addresses your points: http://thoughtsonthedead.com/on-the-propriety-of-punching-nazis-an-faq/

Someone modded Wolfenstein 3D to ask if it's okay to punch Nazis.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/someone-modded-wolfenstein-3d-to-ask-if-violence-against-nazis-is-okay
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 12, 2017, 01:10:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12705222_992070294163733_347843666012807511_n.jpg?oh=b3bc0223ac2dc15bd9e2738113cb967a&oe=59332FDE)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16473105_315403865524495_2835637662481598281_n.jpg?oh=077cc4b787fbe410559e99e0ed71aabb&oe=5908F1C6)

Also, one of my sisters seems to share Britain First videos. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 12, 2017, 08:14:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 12, 2017, 01:10:13 AM

Also, one of my sisters seems to share Britain First videos. :bleeding:

I take it she doesn't accidentally share Guardian newspaper pieces on social media? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 12, 2017, 12:19:09 PM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16708544_1651268665169739_8414058883391169357_n.jpg?oh=3fff6b416c7d6f30a0c8657e42094ea8&oe=594C434D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 12, 2017, 12:54:03 PM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16507825_1274493225991402_4095121117831413467_n.jpg?oh=0615e86207b00ff56298fafc6b9a022c&oe=5900CB19)

"I have to get this idea out of my head"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 13, 2017, 10:39:33 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12079482_950542078343477_2035626906314885961_n.jpg?oh=fc4af5b0e311d33f9bb404877ae2f7ed&oe=593AD8CB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 13, 2017, 10:43:04 AM
I fly the swastika, thank you very much. And a trump flag.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 13, 2017, 10:50:14 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 13, 2017, 10:43:04 AM
I fly the swastika, thank you very much. And a trump flag.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fstartrek%2Fimages%2F0%2F07%2FWashington.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20061124012638&hash=d1756bdb4988dbc9fad3bbaa3f88d9c6d65953ed)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.gamespot.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2Fgamespot%2Fimages%2F2007%2F073%2F784547-938653_20070315_004.jpg&hash=ec0dee0e3d4eecb6ed5eab9faf880b90c2f3a8e2)

?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 13, 2017, 10:55:28 AM
I need some alone time. BRB
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 13, 2017, 11:07:15 AM
It's just a good luck symbol.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 13, 2017, 11:08:12 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 13, 2017, 10:39:33 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12079482_950542078343477_2035626906314885961_n.jpg?oh=fc4af5b0e311d33f9bb404877ae2f7ed&oe=593AD8CB)
are there places the American flag is forbidden?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 13, 2017, 11:11:22 AM
Wherever feminist liberal black lives matter activists are. Or something.-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 13, 2017, 12:41:05 PM
Wherever you put the Koran you should put the flag too. :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 01:52:50 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 13, 2017, 11:08:12 AM
are there places the American flag is forbidden?

Probably some places not named America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 13, 2017, 01:56:15 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbescherelletamere.fr%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F02%2Fhttps-2F2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com2Fuploads2Fcard2Fimage2F3814532Fe245a774-ace1-4ebb-8780-78004ad65f7d.jpg&hash=9a097dc863022493540c84af434d6443ec5661d6)

https://web.archive.org/web/20170212200730/http:/library-of-congress-shop.myshopify.com/products/donald-trump-inauguration-print (https://web.archive.org/web/20170212200730/http:/library-of-congress-shop.myshopify.com/products/donald-trump-inauguration-print)

[spoiler]Too late! Sold out![/spoiler]
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 13, 2017, 01:59:56 PM
That sounds like something Obama would say.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 13, 2017, 02:03:09 PM
With, or without the typo?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 13, 2017, 02:41:15 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 13, 2017, 02:03:09 PM
With, or without the typo?

"...no challenge is to grate."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on February 13, 2017, 07:16:03 PM
(https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16683967_10155050187501800_2265136067928676271_n.jpg?oh=b60905564ef8042ed636d9fab7f7f88a&oe=593F1FE5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2017, 08:59:49 PM
Who still wears white shirts besides politicians?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2017, 08:59:49 PM
Who still wears white shirts besides politicians?

:mad: :ultra:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 13, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
 :lol:

No way in hell. Even if I wanted to.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 13, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
I don't wear a shirt often but when I do, it's white.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 13, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
I don't wear a shirt often but when I do, it's white.

Good man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 13, 2017, 09:11:42 PM
I wear a tuxedo t-shirt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 13, 2017, 09:13:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 13, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
I don't wear a shirt often but when I do, it's white.

Good man.

There is a damn limit about being a millennial after all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on February 13, 2017, 10:10:56 PM
When outfitted head-to-toe by the generous Mr. Jos. A. Bank, Clothier (Ret.), I always favor white or thinly striped-on-white.  I find this tendency towards checkered dress shirts (gingham?) with a suit/tie unnerving. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 13, 2017, 10:22:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2017, 08:59:49 PM
Who still wears white shirts besides politicians?
:mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 13, 2017, 10:27:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2017, 08:59:49 PM
Who still wears white shirts besides politicians?

Pretty much anybody who can afford a good suit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 10:33:27 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 13, 2017, 10:10:56 PM
I find this tendency towards checkered dress shirts (gingham?) with a suit/tie unnerving.

It's an English thing.  English-influenced men's tailored fashions have been a thingy for a few years now.  Unfortunately, it also favors thin guys, so fuck them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 13, 2017, 10:36:43 PM
Quote from: dps on February 13, 2017, 10:27:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2017, 08:59:49 PM
Who still wears white shirts besides politicians?

Pretty much anybody who can afford a good suit.


Or the


(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fjcdn.com%2Fpictures%2FMormon%2Bs%2Bstickin%2Bit%2Bto%2Bthe%2Bman%2Bthe%2Blocal%2Bmorms%2Bfound_3a4d14_5562862.jpg&hash=41471cb0d4a1e481cff5c263204514d198e916f9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 10:49:11 PM
Not the same, moron. :bleeding: Short sleeves and ties, what is this, Mission Control circa 1967?

Besides, the fuck do you know, the next time you're going to be wearing a white dress shirt is in your coffin, 11Blauer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 13, 2017, 10:52:47 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 10:49:11 PM
Not the same, moron. :bleeding: Short sleeves and ties, what is this, Mission Control circa 1967?

Besides, the fuck do you know, the next time you're going to be wearing a white dress shirt is in your coffin, 11Blauer.

White shirt is not in the SOP.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2017, 10:56:52 PM
Not with all the mustard you spill on yourself. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on February 14, 2017, 12:32:11 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2017, 08:59:49 PM
Who still wears white shirts besides politicians?
White shirts are still the best choice when you wear a suit and also work well with e.g. good denims or chinos, a sporty dark blue jacket and brown leather belt and shoes.

Edit: What I don't understand is the American love for button down shirts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 14, 2017, 12:51:24 AM
It looks better when you don't wear a tie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on February 14, 2017, 01:07:16 AM
True. Except sometimes a suit looks sharper if you wear a tie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 14, 2017, 01:12:38 AM
Quote from: Zanza on February 14, 2017, 01:07:16 AM
True. Except sometimes a suit looks sharper if you wear a tie.

Then you don't wear a button-down collar.  :bleeding: 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on February 14, 2017, 01:15:45 AM
Just never wear a button down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2017, 01:25:32 AM
Button downs are nice cuz if you lose your collar tabs on your regular shirts you look like Dilbert.  Nothing easier to lose than a collar tab, or to leave it when laundering so it melts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2017, 01:27:02 AM
I like wearing button downs under sweaters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 14, 2017, 04:55:06 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16708722_732483006911943_5909804755278550055_n.jpg?oh=6c5c136dff7f06976daa4299147875ab&oe=59412BEA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 14, 2017, 05:59:07 AM
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 14, 2017, 07:23:15 AM
To be fair, almost every women look at him that way... until they meet Sophie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 14, 2017, 07:36:28 AM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 13, 2017, 10:10:56 PM
When outfitted head-to-toe by the generous Mr. Jos. A. Bank, Clothier (Ret.), I always favor white or thinly striped-on-white.  I find this tendency towards checkered dress shirts (gingham?) with a suit/tie unnerving.

You are a man of sense and good taste.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 14, 2017, 07:46:23 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 14, 2017, 07:36:28 AM
the generous Mr. Jos. A. Bank, Clothier (Ret.),

Fun fact:  when I worked in their warehouse, they had a squad of little old ladies in their QA/QC department.  Wasn't a woman under the age of 60 there  That shit didn't come off the loading dock without going through them first, glasses all down on their noses, inspecting everything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 14, 2017, 10:39:00 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 14, 2017, 01:27:02 AM
I like wearing button downs under sweaters.

Mine are sweater vests.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2017, 01:25:32 AM
Button downs are nice cuz if you lose your collar tabs on your regular shirts you look like Dilbert.  Nothing easier to lose than a collar tab, or to leave it when laundering so it melts.

You know they sell spare collar stays, right?  You can get them by the 100 for just a few bucks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2017, 12:49:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
You know they sell spare collar stays, right?  You can get them by the 100 for just a few bucks.

Where?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 14, 2017, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2017, 08:59:49 PM
Who still wears white shirts besides politicians?

They are sold in bulk for low prices with the intention of being used for school uniforms.
They also pass for acceptable dress at work.
So....  I do a lot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 14, 2017, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2017, 12:49:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
You know they sell spare collar stays, right?  You can get them by the 100 for just a few bucks.

Where?  :huh:

The cleaners has them--mine used to give them away for free.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2017, 01:16:04 PM
Well sum da bishes.  All those years of looking like Dilbert.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2017, 01:16:30 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2017, 12:49:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
You know they sell spare collar stays, right?  You can get them by the 100 for just a few bucks.

Where?  :huh:

Search collar stays on Amazon.  Lotsa choices. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 14, 2017, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2017, 01:16:04 PM
Well sum da bishes.  All those years of looking like Dilbert.  :(

You coulda had class. You coulda been a contender. You coulda been somebody, instead of a bum. But you didn't know about the collar stays.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on February 14, 2017, 01:40:05 PM
My collar tabs are all brass. :cool:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2017, 01:43:59 PM
I didn't know that collar tabs are a thing. I've checked my shirts which range from 10 to 80 Euros, and none seem to have the slit/access required to access the tabs. I presume people don't just cut it open? :unsure:

If it's not abundantly clear, I rarely dress formal. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2017, 01:48:22 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16711680_1846952172189862_5648279406873428974_n.jpg?oh=c25694bd6cfd9b349852620afc2496a1&oe=59393F70)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 14, 2017, 01:50:15 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 14, 2017, 01:43:59 PM
I didn't know that collar tabs are a thing.

I'm going to pass on this one, and let Ed make the German uniform joke instead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2017, 01:51:10 PM
I've been socialized in an environment where you don't wear shirts unless you have to go to court, a wedding, or to a funeral. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 14, 2017, 01:52:38 PM
And it took a shitload of ordnance to knock that out of you people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 14, 2017, 01:52:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 14, 2017, 01:48:22 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16711680_1846952172189862_5648279406873428974_n.jpg?oh=c25694bd6cfd9b349852620afc2496a1&oe=59393F70)

I can't remember if press was as excited when 9 months pregnant M.I.A. performed at the grammy's.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 14, 2017, 01:56:11 PM
Beyoncé is Special.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2017, 01:56:42 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 14, 2017, 01:39:09 PM
You coulda had class. You coulda been a contender. You coulda been somebody, instead of a bum. But you didn't know about the collar stays.  :(

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2017, 02:11:12 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 14, 2017, 01:56:11 PM
Beyoncé is Special.

She's hot but her music is overrated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on February 14, 2017, 02:44:50 PM
Trump enjoying the chaos at Mar-a-Leako

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4n4Az0UEAEmOei.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on February 15, 2017, 06:12:02 AM
Danish police wishes everyone a happy valentine's day

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4nexU6WMAEgAwR.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 15, 2017, 01:32:48 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/16708435_1746786532304454_5224502162069805106_n.jpg?oh=bfa09f81346561ed7b3d3b8ec19d5f5c&oe=593DCDC7)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 15, 2017, 01:36:38 PM
And here's a picture of actual American kids:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmsnbcmedia.msn.com%2Fj%2FMSNBC%2FComponents%2FPhoto%2F_new%2F130502-kids-guns-main-930p.660%3B660%3B7%3B70%3B0.jpg&hash=3b4c94d098f5c7648de89bdfc616e1ae8a92e21b)

I thought Americans thought it wsa a good idea to introduce their children to firearms? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 01:43:23 PM
Yes, we definitely like having our kids pose as jihadis with fully automatic assault rifles.  You nailed it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 15, 2017, 01:54:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 01:43:23 PM
Yes, we definitely like having our kids pose as jihadis with fully automatic assault rifles.  You nailed it.

How is that a Jihadi pose? They have the flag of the Syrian Arab Republic, not the black flag of Jihadism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 15, 2017, 02:05:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 01:43:23 PM
Yes, we definitely like having our kids pose as jihadis with fully automatic assault rifles.  You nailed it.

We call it the neo-nazi pose when it's white people doing it. Like BBs picture show.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 02:44:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2017, 01:54:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 01:43:23 PM
Yes, we definitely like having our kids pose as jihadis with fully automatic assault rifles.  You nailed it.

How is that a Jihadi pose? They have the flag of the Syrian Arab Republic, not the black flag of Jihadism.

What's the black flag of Jihadism?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 15, 2017, 02:47:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 02:44:41 PM
What's the black flag of Jihadism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Standard

You know the flag they always are seen using in pictures and videos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 03:03:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2017, 02:47:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 02:44:41 PM
What's the black flag of Jihadism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Standard

You know the flag they always are seen using in pictures and videos.

Ah, I thought you were talking about the ISIS flag.  Okay, but jihadis also wear green headbands and cover their faces, don't they?  And, like I said, full auto AKs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 15, 2017, 03:07:43 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 03:03:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2017, 02:47:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 15, 2017, 02:44:41 PM
What's the black flag of Jihadism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Standard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Standard)

You know the flag they always are seen using in pictures and videos.

Ah, I thought you were talking about the ISIS flag.  Okay, but jihadis also wear green headbands and cover their faces, don't they?  And, like I said, full auto AKs.
I thought access to all kinds of guns was a sign of freedom for a country?  Why the sudden distinction between US assault & hunting rifles compared to foreign made assault weapons?


(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prep-blog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2Fchloe_AR15carbine_oleg-volk.jpg&hash=992cf96f6bf450c098f73aa5919663b6050be303)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/N07enhvt1qg/hqdefault.jpg)

(https://gastatic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/KidsNGunscover.jpg)

Are you saying Americans are inherently dangerous and should be barred from entry into any civilized country?  After all, you're just a bunch of savages intent on killing one another.  Not a week goes by without a shooting incident in the US.  Since guns aren't the problem because people kill people, not guns, well...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 15, 2017, 03:09:55 PM
The green there is the Green-White-Black in the flag of the non-ISIS Syrian opposition.

Green is a color of Islamic nationalists, of course, but when they are actually out there Jihading they use black. Or at least have for the past several decades.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 15, 2017, 04:28:50 PM
White Anglo Saxon children defending the white race from the muds: good

Muds with guns? Drone strike them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 16, 2017, 04:17:45 AM
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-02/14/6/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-01/sub-buzz-15444-1487072386-11.png?downsize=720:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 16, 2017, 11:42:28 AM
She really ought to let them figure out masturbation on their own.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 11:49:53 AM
Feminism is cancer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 16, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 11:49:53 AM
Feminism is cancer.

You should also teach your kids about cancer. They need to learn to pass on both smoking and Mary Wollstonecraft.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 12:02:29 PM
Yep.  I've incorporated Susan Brownmiller into scary campfire stories I tell them.  And I think my "stinky" cigars have put the idea of smoking out of their minds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 16, 2017, 12:21:47 PM
This feminism is shit trope seems to be Internet heavy. Has any of you actually met somebody in the real world out there that speaks and acts the way these tumblerinas do?

I sure never have. Just like the trigger, safe space BS the right seems to obsess about. Internet =/= real life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Yes.  I've run into it in craft beer, of all things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 16, 2017, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Yes.  I've run into it in craft beer, of all things.

Tell me more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 01:47:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 16, 2017, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Yes.  I've run into it in craft beer, of all things.

Tell me more.

Hmm, not sure where to begin.

The craft beer scene/movement/hobby/whatever has become wildly successful and has drawn in IMO a pretty diverse group of people.  This is an undeniably good thing.  I've been introduced to a lot of great people from other demographics that I might not have otherwise met. 

Beer is seen by many as having been a traditionally man thing-- from the brewing and packaging to serving and consumption.  But within the past 5 or so years there has been a fairly large influx of women into the craft beer world.  Which again is a good thing; the more the merrier, plus in my experience women tend to bring a civilizing effect on otherwise male-dominated taprooms. 

But sometimes I guess we can't all just relax and enjoy this good thing we have going.  More and more I am seeing criticism of the industry and "culture" related to craft beer.  And you're having political and social issues seep into what IMO should be an apolitical thing that brings us together rather than divide.

I'm aware of a feminist beer group and another quasi-feminist beer group here in Cincinnati, and they have raised a number of grievances.  Some have a grain of legitimacy and others are just plain silly:

-Some beer labels/names are crude and sexist and need to be done away with.  They represent an active barrier to women participating in craft beer, something something frat boys & patriarchy.  It's not enough just to not buy that beer.  Breweries need to be shamed into submission.

-Bartenders need to stop trying to suggest beers to women.  Just show them the tap list and let them decide.  Any input or suggestion from the bartender is to be regarded as mansplaining.  And don't you dare suggest a low ABV or fruit-infused beer.

-There aren't enough female brewers.  Won't say how many would be enough-- there just need to be more.  Almost no women are in packaging and distributing, but those jobs aren't any fun so nobody cares.

-Male bar patrons should never: ask a female bartender's name, compliment her on anything related to her appearance, or compliment her on her knowledge of beer.  This is not just related to beer, but bars in general.  Basically, just keep your mouth shut (but still tip generously).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 16, 2017, 02:30:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2017, 03:09:55 PM
The green there is the Green-White-Black in the flag of the non-ISIS Syrian opposition.

Green is a color of Islamic nationalists, of course, but when they are actually out there Jihading they use black. Or at least have for the past several decades.

Green is the color is Islam.  It represents paradise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 16, 2017, 02:31:32 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 16, 2017, 02:30:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2017, 03:09:55 PM
The green there is the Green-White-Black in the flag of the non-ISIS Syrian opposition.

Green is a color of Islamic nationalists, of course, but when they are actually out there Jihading they use black. Or at least have for the past several decades.

Green is the color is Islam.  It represents paradise.

But ISIS does use a black flag.

(https://www.jihadwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/isis-flag-youtube-afp.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 16, 2017, 03:47:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 01:47:04 PM
-Some beer labels/names are crude and sexist and need to be done away with.  They represent an active barrier to women participating in craft beer, something something frat boys & patriarchy.  It's not enough just to not buy that beer.  Breweries need to be shamed into submission.

-Bartenders need to stop trying to suggest beers to women.  Just show them the tap list and let them decide.  Any input or suggestion from the bartender is to be regarded as mansplaining.  And don't you dare suggest a low ABV or fruit-infused beer.

-There aren't enough female brewers.  Won't say how many would be enough-- there just need to be more.  Almost no women are in packaging and distributing, but those jobs aren't any fun so nobody cares.

-Male bar patrons should never: ask a female bartender's name, compliment her on anything related to her appearance, or compliment her on her knowledge of beer.  This is not just related to beer, but bars in general.  Basically, just keep your mouth shut (but still tip generously).

Ah yeah. That is pretty typical.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 16, 2017, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 16, 2017, 02:31:32 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 16, 2017, 02:30:27 PM
Green is the color is Islam.  It represents paradise.

But ISIS does use a black flag.

(https://www.jihadwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/isis-flag-youtube-afp.jpg)

That is correct.  They use Mohammed's battle standard as their flag (as have many before them). That does not contradict the fact the the "color" of Islam is green.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Capetan Mihali on February 16, 2017, 07:25:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 12:02:29 PMAnd I think my "stinky" cigars have put the idea of smoking out of their minds.

You'd think so.  But somehow nothing from childhood -- whether it was growing up in a haze of unappealing secondhand smoke (especially cigar smoke), having a grandfather die from lung cancer (and take off the oxygen to smoke on his deathbed), thoroughly buying into the antismoking lessons at school -- dissuaded me from jumping on the cigarette bandwagon by the time I was 15/16.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 16, 2017, 08:50:51 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 16, 2017, 12:21:47 PM
This feminism is shit trope seems to be Internet heavy. Has any of you actually met somebody in the real world out there that speaks and acts the way these tumblerinas do?

I sure never have. Just like the trigger, safe space BS the right seems to obsess about. Internet =/= real life.

yes

(edit) today one posted on fb a pic of her women's march with the comment "silence is consent"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2017, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 16, 2017, 12:21:47 PM
I sure never have. Just like the trigger, safe space BS the right seems to obsess about. Internet =/= real life.
Check out Mathieu Bock Côté columns of this week, I think it's on Monday, there's a link to a investigation on the subject made by ICI Radio-Canada at UQAM.  Of course, it's the worst university in the province, barely registering as university, but still, that is telling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2017, 09:00:37 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 11:49:53 AM
Feminism is cancer.
as in equality between sexes is bad?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 16, 2017, 09:03:58 PM
if we go by hillary's campaign strategy, feminists could be cancer to democrats winning elections
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2017, 09:08:01 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 01:47:04 PM
-Some beer labels/names are crude and sexist and need to be done away with.  They represent an active barrier to women participating in craft beer, something something frat boys & patriarchy.  It's not enough just to not buy that beer.  Breweries need to be shamed into submission.
Well, if you name your beer "La p'tite pute" (Little whore), it is kinda expected that some women will find it offensive.  For some reason, women do not appreciate being called a whore.

Quote
-Bartenders need to stop trying to suggest beers to women.  Just show them the tap list and let them decide.  Any input or suggestion from the bartender is to be regarded as mansplaining.  And don't you dare suggest a low ABV or fruit-infused beer.
Ok, that is silly, unless asked, of if there's a special on something or a novelty item.

Quote
-There aren't enough female brewers.  Won't say how many would be enough-- there just need to be more.  Almost no women are in packaging and distributing, but those jobs aren't any fun so nobody cares.
Well, women will always complain there isn't enough women in traditionnaly male jobs.  I guess they have a point, but, hey, do we complain there are more female bartenders than male?  more female nurses than male nurse?  More elementary female teachers?  I guess we're just more mature like that.  ;)

Quote
-Male bar patrons should never: ask a female bartender's name, compliment her on anything related to her appearance, or compliment her on her knowledge of beer.  This is not just related to beer, but bars in general.  Basically, just keep your mouth shut (but still tip generously).
again, silly.

but I could easily find conservative sillyness too.  Like, oh say, deciding what a woman should do with her body?  Selling her beauty products for more than the same product for men?  Or deciding what bathroom should someone attend and having a toilet police? Or, oh, I don't know, believing that a restaurant is hiding a Democrat-run pedophile ring and going there with guns blazing? :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2017, 09:08:25 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 16, 2017, 09:03:58 PM
if we go by hillary's campaign strategy, feminists could be cancer to democrats winning elections
Still cheerleading for that Russian spy of yours? :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 16, 2017, 09:09:29 PM
Women shouldn't  drive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 16, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 16, 2017, 09:08:25 PMStill cheerleading for that Russian spy of yours? :)

what I think is really interesting is that this narrative quickly shifted, and all evidence suggests trump wasn't an agent or compromised. at best, he was someone who admired putin's boldness. maybe he had an idea of lifting sanctions or maybe he didn't and it was flynn/whoever. I don't know, but it doesn't matter because trump and putin are obviously not closet allies. russia doesn't know what's going on, and it's more cautious now toward trump. trump is desperate to prove he isn't russia's friend, so he's going anti-russia.

any pro-russia sentiment trump might have is gone. most of the pro-trump sentiment russia is gone. the system worked. like I said months ago, it doesn't matter whether trump likes russia--America doesn't like russia, so it won't let him ally up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 16, 2017, 09:26:00 PM
Trump loves Russia:  he's tried unsuccessfully since the 1980s to do business there, and not cracking the door.   And the Russian immigrant population of NYC, particularly Brighton Beach, have always been attracted to his gold-plated kitsch.

But yeah, he's compromised.  He may not know it, he may not even believe it, but all businessmen of Trump's pedigree have been primary targets by Russian intelligence services.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 10:39:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 16, 2017, 09:08:01 PM
Well, if you name your beer "La p'tite pute" (Little whore), it is kinda expected that some women will find it offensive.  For some reason, women do not appreciate being called a whore.

Not familiar with that one.  Was the brewery calling women whores, or was it naming a beer after a whore?  Anyway, I'll agree it's in bad taste and would make me less likely to buy the beer.  Solution: don't buy that beer and don't buy anything else from that brewery.  I'll give you some other examples in a separate post.

Quote
Ok, that is silly, unless asked, of if there's a special on something or a novelty item.

I sort of understand the basis of the complaint-- sometimes male bartenders make incorrect assumptions about what some female beer drinkers like or their level of knowledge.  But there are also large numbers of women (and men) that walk into a taproom and do need some help finding a beer they like.  So sometimes it's a no-win situation for the bartender.

Quote
Well, women will always complain there isn't enough women in traditionnaly male jobs.  I guess they have a point, but, hey, do we complain there are more female bartenders than male?  more female nurses than male nurse?  More elementary female teachers?  I guess we're just more mature like that.  ;)

The interesting thing about this is I've heard several women complain about there not being enough female brewers, but none of the complainers themselves want to get into brewing. 

Quote
again, silly.

With this one as well I sort of understand the basis of the complaint-- idiot patrons that see female bartenders as a captive audience and try to flirt with them.  Hell, it gets under my skin when I witness it.  But not every guy who asks for a name is trying to get in her pants.

Quotebut I could easily find conservative sillyness too.  Like, oh say, deciding what a woman should do with her body?  Selling her beauty products for more than the same product for men?  Or deciding what bathroom should someone attend and having a toilet police? Or, oh, I don't know, believing that a restaurant is hiding a Democrat-run pedophile ring and going there with guns blazing? :)

None of that relates to my explanation to Valmy about how feminism has seeped into craft beer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 16, 2017, 10:45:07 PM
It's like everything in culture.

When there is a inbalance, the effort to redress is always results in at a minimum, an appearance of going to far the other way.

The fact that there are complaints happening about the reverse of misogyny and the silliness of some of it is a good sign - it means that society is moving in the right direction.

We've pretty much treated women like second class citizens for...well, forever. If the act of redressing that results in some overshoot into silliness, that is not exactly of great import.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 10:51:14 PM
Here are some of the labels that have recently generated complaints:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbeerimages.pintley.com%2F7155%2Fbehemoth_large.png&hash=1aeb5cc653fca328e7b0388597e25acc464ecc64)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegnarlygnome.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2FBrettTShirt.jpg&hash=5e73d8047c9f23c7c72ab4c42a9bac55388f5f59)

(https://res.cloudinary.com/ratebeer/image/upload/w_250,c_limit/beer_392465.jpg)

(https://aleheads.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/clown-shoes-tramp-stamp.jpg)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fslate%2Farticles%2Flife%2Fdrink%2F2015%2F06%2FcraftBeer%2F150625_IPA_pdCaliforniaBlue.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg&hash=3d09e02f0584912a4ebde9e3ed6005f78cd90c8a)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fslate%2Farticles%2Flife%2Fdrink%2F2015%2F06%2FcraftBeer%2F150625_IPA_ragingBitch.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg&hash=66ac610f4be4b5bc32514e381978a01d79dcb1c7)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftenemu.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F11%2FHoof-Hearted-Konkey-Dong-16-OunceCans-Label.jpg&hash=645dc707dd1a42b119a97179ab490d19624a7dee)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-FSTZ8Xhpp1U%2FTm1T-FhaJPI%2FAAAAAAAABMc%2FlyNJckZ4lR4%2Fs1600%2F2011-Front-Label.png&hash=b682a6ecfc421b21e56c2c0683b2e1a04716953c)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 16, 2017, 10:52:28 PM
Chicks, man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 17, 2017, 04:56:31 AM
Most of those labels look like the work of 13 year old boys hitting puberty though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 17, 2017, 06:50:32 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 17, 2017, 04:56:31 AM
Most of those labels look like the work of 13 year old boys hitting puberty though.

Yeah, pretty juvenile, I can sympatize with their objections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 17, 2017, 08:58:14 AM
If I were forced to buy stuff I'd be pretty pissed too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 17, 2017, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 17, 2017, 04:56:31 AM
Most of those labels look like the work of 13 year old boys hitting puberty though.

Yeah, there is plenty there to find objectionable.

I don't understand what the actual complaint is though - just don't buy it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 17, 2017, 09:32:42 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 16, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
what I think is really interesting is that this narrative quickly shifted, and all evidence suggests trump wasn't an agent or compromised. at best, he was someone who admired putin's boldness.
At best, a  useful idiot.

Quote
maybe he had an idea of lifting sanctions or maybe he didn't and it was flynn/whoever. I don't know, but it doesn't matter because trump and putin are obviously not closet allies. russia doesn't know what's going on, and it's more cautious now toward trump. trump is desperate to prove he isn't russia's friend, so he's going anti-russia.
I've seen Fox News (a tottally credible source according to Republicans...) commenting that intelligence agencies do not give him classified material for fear it would be compromised...

Quote
any pro-russia sentiment trump might have is gone. most of the pro-trump sentiment russia is gone. the system worked. like I said months ago, it doesn't matter whether trump likes russia--America doesn't like russia, so it won't let him ally up.
Gone?  Where?  He's keeping it quiet to ride the storm, just like you lower your sails on a boat.  You don't burn them at the first sign of a storm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 17, 2017, 09:36:50 AM
I'm sure at least one intelligence agent has withheld information because he's paranoid. this doesn't mean he's right. when you've got media blasting trump for being a russian puppet, which is basically a conspiracy theory gone mainstream and supported by the media, then this sort of thing is going to happen. intelligence agents are naturally cautious. if some of them see a possibility, even if small, some are going to act on that small possibility.

trump is both a brilliant mastermind and an idiot at once, depending on the issue and how it best supports leftist arguments. that's what is pretty interesting about these internet conspiracy theories
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 17, 2017, 09:42:54 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 16, 2017, 10:39:45 PM
Not familiar with that one.  Was the brewery calling women whores, or was it naming a beer after a whore?
It was naming its beer "Little whore".  In the description it said "A small blonde easy and fruity".
They also had a beer called "parakeet", a derogatory name sometimes used for females and "the viscious".

Quote
Anyway, I'll agree it's in bad taste and would make me less likely to buy the beer.  Solution: don't buy that beer and don't buy anything else from that brewery.  I'll give you some other examples in a separate post.
Well, it's not like people try to burn down the micro-brewery.  They just called for a boycott and eventually the names were changed. 

But in this case, I understand the outrage.  In many case, I feel the exagerate and destroy any chance of success.  Calling about the Quebec rape culture when the people are reporting incidents happenning at Harvard does not help the feminist's case.


Quote
I sort of understand the basis of the complaint-- sometimes male bartenders make incorrect assumptions about what some female beer drinkers like or their level of knowledge.  But there are also large numbers of women (and men) that walk into a taproom and do need some help finding a beer they like.  So sometimes it's a no-win situation for the bartender.
Imho, if a client ask for suggestions, you give it.  If they don't say they want something strong, they'll recommend something softer, more appropriate to everyone's taste.

Quote
The interesting thing about this is I've heard several women complain about there not being enough female brewers, but none of the complainers themselves want to get into brewing. 
Yeah, sure.  They all complain there aren't enough females on construction sites, but none of them complain there are too many female nurses&teachers.

Quote
With this one as well I sort of understand the basis of the complaint-- idiot patrons that see female bartenders as a captive audience and try to flirt with them.  Hell, it gets under my skin when I witness it.  But not every guy who asks for a name is trying to get in her pants.
That's why it's silly.  There's a difference between obsessive flirting and asking for a name.

Quote
None of that relates to my explanation to Valmy about how feminism has seeped into craft beer.
You said "feminism is a cancer".  I think conservatism is equally a cancer, because of its abuses.  You will likely disagree with me.  I am more neutral toward feminism, and my bar is higher than yours to determine what is a feminazi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 17, 2017, 09:45:36 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 17, 2017, 09:36:50 AM
I'm sure at least one intelligence agent has withheld information because he's paranoid. this doesn't mean he's right. when you've got media blasting trump for being a russian puppet, which is basically a conspiracy theory gone mainstream and supported by the media, then this sort of thing is going to happen. intelligence agents are naturally cautious. if some of them see a possibility, even if small, some are going to act on that small possibility.

trump is both a brilliant mastermind and an idiot at once, depending on the issue and how it best supports leftist arguments. that's what is pretty interesting about these internet conspiracy theories
so what you,re telling me is that level intelligence agencies are withholding detailed reports from Trump because they believe in the conspiracy theories spread by the New York Time and the Washington Post, first amongst the fake medias of this world?

Interesting... theory, I guess.

But it doesn't hold to analysis.

Unless you want to argue that US Intelligence agencies are notoriously incompetent and filled to the brim, from bottom to the very top with incompetent people who gather their intelligence from US newspapers columns & editorials?
In that case, I would have to bow to your superior knowledge of US intelligence agencies.  Not being my country, I'm not familiar with every details.  But if you say so...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 17, 2017, 09:51:27 AM
I didn't say any of that

fyi, from what I've seen NYT seems at least slightly biased. washington post, I dunno, I haven't looked into it. cnn is really bad. huffingtonpost is basically a liberal rag.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 17, 2017, 10:13:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16730384_1285537241513692_549609104483003705_n.jpg?oh=cf60acfbb4b467441399d874a3385a58&oe=594B47AA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 17, 2017, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 17, 2017, 09:51:27 AM
I didn't say any of that

fyi, from what I've seen NYT seems at least slightly biased. washington post, I dunno, I haven't looked into it. cnn is really bad. huffingtonpost is basically a liberal rag.

I'm looking forward to the FBI raiding the NYT and WaPo offices later this year.

CNN will be left alone. Trump is friends with Zucker. They probably have an understanding.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 17, 2017, 11:38:01 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 17, 2017, 06:50:32 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 17, 2017, 04:56:31 AM
Most of those labels look like the work of 13 year old boys hitting puberty though.

Yeah, pretty juvenile, I can sympatize with their objections.

Yeah but plenty of others are not. Buy the ones that show the proper maturity. It is kind of self-defeating to have a label that will keep your shit from ever being commercially successful.

The problem is the demands that the people who make bad stuff be shamed or bullied into submission. That is what turns people against good causes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 17, 2017, 12:05:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 17, 2017, 11:38:01 AM
Yeah but plenty of others are not. Buy the ones that show the proper maturity. It is kind of self-defeating to have a label that will keep your shit from ever being commercially successful.

Speaking of shit, here's one that people tell me is good but I refuse to buy.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriouseats.com%2Fimages%2F2016%2F02%2F20160222-brown-ales-against-the-grain-brown-note-vicky-wasik-7.jpg&hash=cdcea3db65ea79309cb0562637627762ad798aa7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 17, 2017, 12:07:04 PM
 :yucky: Horrible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 17, 2017, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 17, 2017, 10:13:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16730384_1285537241513692_549609104483003705_n.jpg?oh=cf60acfbb4b467441399d874a3385a58&oe=594B47AA)

Yeah see health care does not work that way.

Cruz displays an incredible ignorance of the complicated problems that make this industry particularly troublesome. His comparison to health care to luxury cars was particularly dumbfounding. Until people are required to be given luxury cars in emergency rooms I think the comparison falls rather flat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 17, 2017, 12:08:40 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 17, 2017, 04:56:31 AM
Most of those labels look like the work of 13 year old boys hitting puberty though.

For some reason, a lot of the trendy beers have intentionally bad artwork.  I think Mikkeller started that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 17, 2017, 12:09:11 PM
That can't be the most successful advertising. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 17, 2017, 11:08:58 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16831819_916548991815334_7191956270242247790_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=c6b1476e44afb95be50388480a2ad9d9&oe=58FD7EFE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 17, 2017, 11:15:07 PM
That guy needs to learn how to draw.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 18, 2017, 12:29:16 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 17, 2017, 09:51:27 AM
I didn't say any of that
No.  But you implied the intelligence agencies did not give Trump all the intel because they believed in the conspiracy theories spread by the medias.

Quote
fyi, from what I've seen NYT seems at least slightly biased.
Give me an example of a non editorial bias.  Or an editorial based on non factual information.

Quotehuffingtonpost is basically a liberal rag.
Well, it's a series of blogs, just about anyone can write in it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 20, 2017, 02:30:21 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/16831048_952386378225127_4522822066551540199_n.jpg?oh=d69e3a49b09d78d7cf54853b52a7128f&oe=5930C874)
QuoteUSA For Trump with Stacy Lemon.

A little bit of duct tape always does the trick!

Get an official HQ Patriotic Donald Trump Portrait (our profile pic) made by artist Maya Spielman here: bit.ly/MrPresidentTrump
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2017, 03:02:49 PM
"Stop saying things I don't want to hear" seems to be an emerging motif of the alt-dumbass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 20, 2017, 03:13:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2017, 03:02:49 PM
"Stop saying things I don't want to hear" seems to be an emerging motif of the alt-dumbass.

same could be said of the left. both groups are like this, probably because they're extremists
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2017, 03:18:45 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 20, 2017, 03:13:25 PM
same could be said of the left. both groups are like this, probably because they're extremists

You're a retard or a troll.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 20, 2017, 03:19:41 PM
i am neither
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on February 20, 2017, 03:36:38 PM
Trolltard
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 20, 2017, 05:59:22 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 20, 2017, 03:13:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2017, 03:02:49 PM
"Stop saying things I don't want to hear" seems to be an emerging motif of the alt-dumbass.

same could be said of the left. both groups are like this, probably because they're extremists

So do you agree with Yi or not? Obviously not every leftist is an extremist so I don't think you can say that about the entire left.

Quotei am neither

No. You are a dishonest liar who deflects, distracts, moves goal posts, and just makes up shit to avoid having an honest conversation. Just like you just did with Yi. Instead of agreeing or disagreeing you sneakily deflect by claiming something patently false as an equivalency. Which is what pissed Yi off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 20, 2017, 09:24:47 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16830986_10209001566019871_7570360396581533906_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=5835fd981b810441afc1848baa69e8cb&oe=5931662E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 20, 2017, 09:25:14 PM
LOOK AT THOSE GAS PRICES
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 20, 2017, 10:26:29 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FRzDjo2I.jpg&hash=be1757f781790d30b1d0ebfccec88f6f8d4126b1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 21, 2017, 07:47:57 PM
I'm not going to waste my collection of comedy pictures with you people anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 21, 2017, 07:53:19 PM
It was in very poor taste.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 21, 2017, 07:57:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 21, 2017, 07:53:19 PM
It was in very poor taste.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Ffacebook%2F000%2F000%2F107%2Fawesome-face.jpg&hash=09cb184278778f0981b8e32dd95f4084d491328d)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 22, 2017, 01:05:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16681769_1252414824875293_7659916920053851774_n.jpg?oh=04b3baf5da607066f36cc8e2c8fd4090&oe=592AD0E4)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16831107_1403646753010320_467171214991425542_n.jpg?oh=52346e3e847c4f43248b3edfdda11762&oe=5946CF38)

Yes, posted by the same person.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 22, 2017, 01:10:28 AM
 :lol:  Profound
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 22, 2017, 01:14:42 AM
"I'll respect yours as long as it looks like a t or maybe a star."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 22, 2017, 02:48:35 PM
The Washington Post has a new slogan on its home page: "Democracy dies in Darkness".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/?reload=true
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 22, 2017, 02:48:35 PM
The Washington Post has a new slogan on its home page: "Democracy dies in Darkness".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/?reload=true

Nice.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 22, 2017, 03:02:24 PM
Also from the WP: The Yell-o-Matic: Pick a Politician, Watch Them Being Yelled At:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/22/here-you-go-pick-a-politician-watch-them-get-yelled-at/?postshare=5431487778153564&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.9987ee9d2d33
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 03:08:55 PM
I have 0 free articles left this month.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 22, 2017, 03:21:59 PM
I am sure the Yell-o-Matic is not going away. :)

(just a compilation of angry constituents yelling at members of Congress)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 03:33:15 PM
I'm still a little peeved you grifted me into burning up my last free view on a fucking slogan.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 22, 2017, 03:34:44 PM
Hey, I gave all the necessary info in the post. Added the link only for the usual complainers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on February 22, 2017, 03:35:11 PM
Just freaking get rid of the wapo tracking cookie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 22, 2017, 03:38:06 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 22, 2017, 03:35:11 PM
Just freaking get rid of the wapo tracking cookie.

How do I do that without wiping all cookies (along with things like saved passwords and the like)?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 22, 2017, 03:43:54 PM
There is something weird about Yi applauding the WP slogan "democracy dies in darkness" and then whining he has no more free articles; aka he won't subscribe.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 03:46:30 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2017, 03:43:54 PM
There is something weird about Yi applauding the WP slogan "democracy dies in darkness" and then whining he has no more free articles; aka he won't subscribe.  :P

I don't see it. :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on February 22, 2017, 03:53:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 22, 2017, 03:38:06 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 22, 2017, 03:35:11 PM
Just freaking get rid of the wapo tracking cookie.

How do I do that without wiping all cookies (along with things like saved passwords and the like)?

Open the page in Private mode (if using Firefox or Safari).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 22, 2017, 04:19:18 PM
Quote from: PRC on February 22, 2017, 03:53:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 22, 2017, 03:38:06 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 22, 2017, 03:35:11 PM
Just freaking get rid of the wapo tracking cookie.

How do I do that without wiping all cookies (along with things like saved passwords and the like)?

Open the page in Private mode (if using Firefox or Safari).

I think it's disabled at work. :weep:

I use private mode at home frequently to get around such restrictions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 22, 2017, 04:20:36 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 03:46:30 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2017, 03:43:54 PM
There is something weird about Yi applauding the WP slogan "democracy dies in darkness" and then whining he has no more free articles; aka he won't subscribe.  :P

I don't see it. :mellow:

... yeah, I'm not sure what the connection is either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 22, 2017, 05:21:23 PM
He's not willing to pay for enlightenment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 22, 2017, 10:08:01 PM
If you have access to a .edu or .gov email address you can get free unlimited access to the WaPo website by signing in with it.

.GOV COASTAL ELITES
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 22, 2017, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 22, 2017, 10:08:01 PM
If you have access to a .edu or .gov email address you can get free unlimited access to the WaPo website by signing in with it.

.GOV COASTAL ELITES

:yeah:

We get blown-open access to JSTOR through the agency's intrawebs, do you?  You should try it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 22, 2017, 10:25:34 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 22, 2017, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 22, 2017, 10:08:01 PM
If you have access to a .edu or .gov email address you can get free unlimited access to the WaPo website by signing in with it.

.GOV COASTAL ELITES

:yeah:

We get blown-open access to JSTOR through the agency's intrawebs, do you?  You should try it.

Dunno, I'll take a look. I'm grateful for anything. Living on government handouts is the thug lyfe
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 22, 2017, 10:27:27 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 22, 2017, 10:08:01 PM
If you have access to a .edu or .gov email address you can get free unlimited access to the WaPo website by signing in with it.

.GOV COASTAL ELITES

Does a gov.ab.ca email address work? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 22, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 22, 2017, 10:27:27 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 22, 2017, 10:08:01 PM
If you have access to a .edu or .gov email address you can get free unlimited access to the WaPo website by signing in with it.

.GOV COASTAL ELITES

Does a gov.ab.ca email address work? :unsure:

You get access to Canadian Tire ads and the Swiss Chalet menu.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 22, 2017, 10:30:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 22, 2017, 10:27:27 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 22, 2017, 10:08:01 PM
If you have access to a .edu or .gov email address you can get free unlimited access to the WaPo website by signing in with it.

.GOV COASTAL ELITES

Does a gov.ab.ca email address work? :unsure:

Prolly not but give her a shot man
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2017, 10:37:29 PM
I just have a subscription to the Post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 22, 2017, 10:39:54 PM
I read Stormfront.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on February 22, 2017, 10:48:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 22, 2017, 10:39:54 PM
I read Stormfront.
Dint you mean publish?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 22, 2017, 10:49:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 22, 2017, 10:39:54 PM
I read Stormfront.

QuoteWho reads the Failing Stormfront anymore? NO ONE. Only Fox News and Breitbart (Bannon) are god!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 22, 2017, 10:50:42 PM
Quote from: katmai on February 22, 2017, 10:48:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 22, 2017, 10:39:54 PM
I read Stormfront.
Dint you mean publish?

Jahwol! NEIN!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on February 22, 2017, 10:58:03 PM
I won't try and speak for Alfred, but I have some thoughts.

I bought a 12 month subscription to the Washington Post the night Flynn resigned, and it was specifically because of the reporting the Post did related to that.

I don't think TV news has ever done much in regards to investigative reporting and uncovering federal government shenanigans and it is very clear that they will continue on that path.

Print journalism, that dying dinosaur, however has once again been the outlet that has had the balls to do the digging, opining and reporting on the true nonsense that is going on in the current administration.  Whether it is the NYT, the WP or even Teen Vogue (yeah haha stick to shoes) they have been one of the very few to shine a light on what is really going on, and trying to keep the darkness (ignorance) away.

The shitty thing is is that even people who are interested in the journalism these publications are doing are not willing to pony up and pay them to continue their work.

Thus someone who agrees with the idea that "Democracy dies in darkness" but is not willing to step up and contribute to those few who are doing everything they can to fight off that darkness may not be taken very seriously by those that do.

EDIT: Hmm drunker than I thought when I started this.  The main points still stand but I may not have been as eloquent as I thought I might be when I started off. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: sbr on February 22, 2017, 10:58:03 PM
I won't try and speak for Alfred, but I have some thoughts.

I bought a 12 month subscription to the Washington Post the night Flynn resigned, and it was specifically because of the reporting the Post did related to that.

I don't think TV news has ever done much in regards to investigative reporting and uncovering federal government shenanigans and it is very clear that they will continue on that path.

Print journalism, that dying dinosaur, however has once again been the outlet that has had the balls to do the digging, opining and reporting on the true nonsense that is going on in the current administration.  Whether it is the NYT, the WP or even Teen Vogue (yeah haha stick to shoes) they have been one of the very few to shine a light on what is really going on, and trying to keep the darkness (ignorance) away.

The shitty thing is is that even people who are interested in the journalism these publications are doing are not willing to pony up and pay them to continue their work.

Thus someone who agrees with the idea that "Democracy dies in darkness" but is not willing to step up and contribute to those few who are doing everything they can to fight off that darkness may not be taken very seriously by those that do.

EDIT: Hmm drunker than I thought when I started this.  The main points still stand but I may not have been as eloquent as I thought I might be when I started off. :D

A reasonable point.

I subscribe to The Economist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on February 22, 2017, 11:06:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 11:03:47 PM
A reasonable point.

I subscribe to The Economist.

:)

I am not familiar with The Economist, outside of random links here I don't click on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 22, 2017, 11:10:59 PM
Sbr, well said. That was what I was driving at.

Although, I don't have a newspaper subscription anymore either, so I'm part of the problem too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 22, 2017, 11:11:14 PM
The Economist is, in my opinion, the best publication in the world. That probably says something about me :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 22, 2017, 11:22:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2017, 11:11:14 PM
The Economist is, in my opinion, the best publication in the world. That probably says something about me :P

That you're snooty and, while relatively progressive when it comes to things like human rights and collective security, you're still not ashamed to gut a motherfucker like a fish if you thought he swallowed a quarter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 22, 2017, 11:27:52 PM
Quote from: sbr on February 22, 2017, 10:58:03 PM
I won't try and speak for Alfred, but I have some thoughts.

I bought a 12 month subscription to the Washington Post the night Flynn resigned, and it was specifically because of the reporting the Post did related to that.

I don't think TV news has ever done much in regards to investigative reporting and uncovering federal government shenanigans and it is very clear that they will continue on that path.

Print journalism, that dying dinosaur, however has once again been the outlet that has had the balls to do the digging, opining and reporting on the true nonsense that is going on in the current administration.  Whether it is the NYT, the WP or even Teen Vogue (yeah haha stick to shoes) they have been one of the very few to shine a light on what is really going on, and trying to keep the darkness (ignorance) away.

The shitty thing is is that even people who are interested in the journalism these publications are doing are not willing to pony up and pay them to continue their work.

Thus someone who agrees with the idea that "Democracy dies in darkness" but is not willing to step up and contribute to those few who are doing everything they can to fight off that darkness may not be taken very seriously by those that do.

EDIT: Hmm drunker than I thought when I started this.  The main points still stand but I may not have been as eloquent as I thought I might be when I started off. :D

Thanks to the Donald.

From December.

QuoteAmerica
Big Newspapers Are Booming: 'Washington Post' To Add 60 Newsroom Jobs
December 27, 2016

The Washington Post expects to hire more than 60 journalists in the coming months — a sign of remarkable growth for a newspaper in the digital age.

After a year of record traffic and digital advertising revenue, the Post newsroom will grow by more than 8 percent, to more than 750 people. The extent of the newsroom expansion was first reported by Politico. The Post will add a "rapid-response" investigative team, expand its video journalism and breaking news staff, and make additional investments in podcasts and photography.

Amazon founder and CEO Jeff Bezos bought the Post in October 2013 and reportedly invested $50 million in the company last year. That investment is paying off, according to a memo from publisher Fred Ryan that said the Post is now "a profitable and growing company." Ryan said the Post's online traffic had increased by nearly 50 percent in the past year, and new subscriptions have grown by 75 percent, more than doubling digital subscription revenue.

Meanwhile, subscriptions at The New York Times have also surged. Times CEO Mark Thompson said on CNBC that the paper added 132,000 new subscribers in the 18 days after the election, a tenfold increase over the same period a year ago. The Los Angeles Times and The Wall Street Journal also reported record growth in subscriptions.

In June, Donald Trump revoked the Post's press credentials at his campaign events, before lifting the ban on the Post and other news organizations two months later.

It may not be The Boys on the Bus or All The President's Men, or even fucking Newsies, but print is still far from dead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 11:34:25 PM
Quote from: sbr on February 22, 2017, 11:06:27 PM
:)

I am not familiar with The Economist, outside of random links here I don't click on.

Pick up a newsstand copy some time.  I particularly like the US coverage because they don't play any bias tricks, just tell you up front what they like or don't like and why.  And it's always fun to hear what furriners say about the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on February 22, 2017, 11:38:13 PM
Ank just linked a article this afternoon.

QuoteA PRESIDENT is swept into office after whipping up a wave of grievance and resentment. He claims to represent "the people" against internal exploiters and external threats. He purports to "refound" the nation, and damns those who preceded him. He governs though confrontation and polarisation. His language is aggressive—opponents are branded as enemies or traitors. He uses the media to cement his connection with the masses, while bridling at critical journalism and at rebuffs to executive power. His policies focus on bringing short-term benefits to his political base—hang the long-term cost to the country's economic stability.

Donald Trump? Yes, but these traits come straight from the manual of Latin American populist nationalism, a tradition that stretches from Argentina's Juan Perón to Venezuela's Hugo Chávez and beyond. Yes, Mr Trump is a billionaire capitalist whereas Chávez was an anti-capitalist army officer. But populism is not synonymous with the left: conservatives such as Peru's Alberto Fujimori used its techniques, too. "Post-truth" politics and "alternative facts" have long been deployed in Latin America, from Mr Fujimori's use of tabloid newspapers to smear opponents, to Chávez's imaginary coups and Cristina Fernández de Kirchner's fake inflation statistics in Argentina.

So when they contemplate Mr Trump's first few weeks in the White House, many Latin American liberal democrats think they've seen this movie before. And they know it usually ends badly. Some of the continent's own populists, by contrast, recognise Mr Trump as a kindred spirit. Nicolás Maduro, Chávez's dictatorial successor, criticised a "hate campaign" against Mr Trump—though that was before the United States this week blacklisted Venezuela's vice-president as a drug kingpin (an allegation Mr Maduro called "baseless"). Guillermo Moreno, the former official entrusted by Ms Fernández with producing Argentina's statistics, has identified "a Peronist" in Mr Trump, "who is trying to do what we did".

It is not just Mr Trump's assault on Mexico's economy and national dignity, with his threats to tear up the North American Free Trade Agreement and to build a border wall, that Latin Americans have to deal with. The bigger question for the region is what Mr Trump represents in the battle of political ideas. The risk is that he may re-legitimise populist nationalism just when it was waning south of the border. That is especially so in Mexico, where Andrés Manuel López Obrador, who heads opinion polls for the 2018 presidential election, now talks of "the fatherland first". Even Chile may not be immune: Alejandro Guillier, a former television presenter who boasts of a special bond with "the people", has a chance in an election in November.

Mr Trump is helping to make life more difficult for those in Latin America who have argued, in the face of the region's instinctive nationalism and anti-Americanism, that its best interests are served by co-operation with the United States and a liberal world order. "We could all hang our hats on free trade, free markets and macroeconomic stability in part because the United States believed in it, both the Democrats and Republicans," says Luis Alberto Moreno, the president of the Inter-American Development Bank. "Now there are protectionist forces in the world, and that resonates in the region."

One response is for Latin America to seek other partners. Though interest in deeper ties with Europe (both the European Union and Brexit Britain) is reviving, China is the main hope. It is already a big trade partner and is investing in infrastructure in the region. But Latin America exports raw materials to China and imports its cheap manufactures. That does less for its economic development than does its more diversified trade with the United States, according to research by the World Bank.

The best response to Mr Trump would be for Latin American liberals to have the courage of their convictions. They should keep their economies open and carry out several tasks they have neglected. These include building more infrastructure and fostering more regional integration, which the populists undermined by turning it into a political slogan rather than a business reality.

Latin American experience teaches that populists are easily underestimated and can stay in power for a long time. But not forever. Populist regimes are often corrupt and spendthrift, and usually fail to make people better off. Whatever the example from the White House, Latin American history shows that populist nationalism is a recipe for national decline. That is the message liberals need to hammer home.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 11:43:02 PM
Oye Frijole Grande, why are you posting that in this thread?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on February 22, 2017, 11:44:13 PM
Because we were speaking of the economist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2017, 11:48:07 PM
D'oh!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 23, 2017, 11:16:48 AM
Quote from: sbr on February 22, 2017, 10:58:03 PM
Thus someone who agrees with the idea that "Democracy dies in darkness" but is not willing to step up and contribute to those few who are doing everything they can to fight off that darkness may not be taken very seriously by those that do.
the problem, is costs a lot of money when it adds up.  The Economist, the Atlantic Monthly, The New York Times, The Washington Post, La Presse/Le Soleil, Le Devoir (I like to read leftist propaganda so I can be better prepared), LA Times, Boston Globe, Les Affaires, it gets very, very expensive in the long run.  So far, I subscribe to the electronic edition of the NYT and Les Affaires, but I haven't ponyed up the money for the others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 23, 2017, 11:21:01 AM
Oh is le Devoir leftwing propaganda? That's funny. They were always trying to get me to read it when I was a French student but I was too busy reading the collected speeches of Maximillien Robespierre.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on February 23, 2017, 11:24:10 AM
I pay 4 bucks a month for my NYT subscription. Granted I got education rates but it's not too expensive otherwise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 23, 2017, 11:54:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 23, 2017, 11:21:01 AM
Oh is le Devoir leftwing propaganda? That's funny. They were always trying to get me to read it when I was a French student but I was too busy reading the collected speeches of Maximillien Robespierre.

It is mostly left, yes. A little too pro-business for it to being propaganda.

I'm thinking I need a NYT subs but it's cost prohibitive for Canadians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 23, 2017, 11:55:29 AM
Quote from: sbr on February 22, 2017, 10:58:03 PM
I won't try and speak for Alfred, but I have some thoughts.

I bought a 12 month subscription to the Washington Post the night Flynn resigned, and it was specifically because of the reporting the Post did related to that.

I don't think TV news has ever done much in regards to investigative reporting and uncovering federal government shenanigans and it is very clear that they will continue on that path.

Print journalism, that dying dinosaur, however has once again been the outlet that has had the balls to do the digging, opining and reporting on the true nonsense that is going on in the current administration.  Whether it is the NYT, the WP or even Teen Vogue (yeah haha stick to shoes) they have been one of the very few to shine a light on what is really going on, and trying to keep the darkness (ignorance) away.

The shitty thing is is that even people who are interested in the journalism these publications are doing are not willing to pony up and pay them to continue their work.

Thus someone who agrees with the idea that "Democracy dies in darkness" but is not willing to step up and contribute to those few who are doing everything they can to fight off that darkness may not be taken very seriously by those that do.

EDIT: Hmm drunker than I thought when I started this.  The main points still stand but I may not have been as eloquent as I thought I might be when I started off. :D

According to David Frum, print media is seeing a huge revival. It is the one possible silver lining.

And the more willing they are to stand up to Trump, the more their subscription numbers have grown.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 23, 2017, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 23, 2017, 11:21:01 AM
Oh is le Devoir leftwing propaganda?
Oex will tell you not, but he's biased ;)
I can't count the number of falsehoods I read in their articles or columns.  The Editorials are totally leftwing, but that's allright, La Presse is totally federalist & Liberal party all the way to the end, even when they supported the Conservative, you'd swear they had a bad aftertaste in their mouth.

dps talked about human bias in the medias, and that I can live with.  Most journalists are from the big cities, they look at remote areas of Quebec with disdain and snobbism, they consider us all potential murderers because we have a gun at home, but that is no excuse for blatant dishonesty.

I disagree with some editorials and columns in the NYT, but I've never ever caught one of their journalist or regular columnist straight out inventing facts to support their bias.  This is good journalism.  Our medias... well, they just won't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 23, 2017, 01:03:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2017, 11:11:14 PM
The Economist is, in my opinion, the best publication in the world. That probably says something about me :P

The Economist is excellent.

I don't pay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 23, 2017, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 22, 2017, 11:22:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2017, 11:11:14 PM
The Economist is, in my opinion, the best publication in the world. That probably says something about me :P

That you're snooty and, while relatively progressive when it comes to things like human rights and collective security, you're still not ashamed to gut a motherfucker like a fish if you thought he swallowed a quarter.

It's for their own good.  Lead poisoning and all that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 23, 2017, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 23, 2017, 11:55:29 AM
According to David Frum, print media is seeing a huge revival. It is the one possible silver lining.

And the more willing they are to stand up to Trump, the more their subscription numbers have grown.

NYT seems to have gotten their mojo back.  Even the NY Post has taken some shots despite endorsing him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 23, 2017, 07:25:37 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 23, 2017, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 23, 2017, 11:55:29 AM
According to David Frum, print media is seeing a huge revival. It is the one possible silver lining.

And the more willing they are to stand up to Trump, the more their subscription numbers have grown.

NYT seems to have gotten their mojo back.  Even the NY Post has taken some shots despite endorsing him.

Like shooting fish in an empty barrel?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 26, 2017, 01:13:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16864058_413097219082495_6379706726317854526_n.jpg?oh=8bd5e07d91b456a99a1bc5198f3ee27b&oe=59736BA2)
Quote#BoycottOscars #BuildThatWall


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16996144_955855664544865_4900674498490399981_n.jpg?oh=52074488a047905a1845eda3801964f8&oe=5924EA6F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 26, 2017, 09:49:24 PM
Last year I was supposed to boycott the Oscars because they were too white. This year it is because they are insufficiently pro-Trump. Man so confusing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 26, 2017, 09:54:51 PM
For your sister's kids, Syt

https://youtu.be/c8hwZ3iNcHc

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 26, 2017, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2017, 09:49:24 PM
Last year I was supposed to boycott the Oscars because they were too white. This year it is because they are insufficiently pro-Trump. Man so confusing.

Personally I don't watch them because I don't care.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 26, 2017, 10:21:47 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 26, 2017, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2017, 09:49:24 PM
Last year I was supposed to boycott the Oscars because they were too white. This year it is because they are insufficiently pro-Trump. Man so confusing.

Personally I don't watch them because I don't care.

Good man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 26, 2017, 10:26:08 PM
Well right. I boycott the Oscars every year. I am always just curious what political stance I am taking by doing so :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 27, 2017, 08:38:19 AM
I watched the last hour or so.

I have not seen any of the movies nominated in any(probably all) category.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 10:29:15 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16998657_10211962047987537_3904199949963632203_n.jpg?oh=a629b077e946563445e4810c150fb844&oe=592E4918)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 28, 2017, 10:39:39 AM
I would have voted for him, for term 2, had I not been a lazy youth (-_-), so yeah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 28, 2017, 10:48:28 AM
I liked George W and voted for him in 2004 so yeah, he needs to make a miraculous comeback :pope:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 11:41:30 AM
Dick Cheney may have been as much a cookie cutter Bond villian as Bannon, but at least he knew what he was doing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 28, 2017, 11:43:15 AM
If I'm going to be ruled by a tyrant i want it to at least be halfway competent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 28, 2017, 11:44:40 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 28, 2017, 11:43:15 AM
If I'm going to be ruled by a tyrant i want it to at least be halfway competent.

This right after calling for the Shrub to make a comeback?  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on February 28, 2017, 11:57:12 AM
Real picture below, but has now exploded the internet with so many memes.  :lol:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5vB7NeUoAEG9dA.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 28, 2017, 12:03:23 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 28, 2017, 11:44:40 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 28, 2017, 11:43:15 AM
If I'm going to be ruled by a tyrant i want it to at least be halfway competent.

This right after calling for the Shrub to make a comeback?  :lol:

:D

Fair point
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 28, 2017, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 11:41:30 AM
Dick Cheney may have been as much a cookie cutter Bond villian as Bannon, but at least he knew what he was doing.

At least, Cheney "just" wanted his very much part of the system circles get away with the nastiest shit, while maintaining the system.

Bannon seems to just want to watch the world burn and rebuild his dream society of angry closet homo hiterjugend on the ashes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: LaCroix on February 28, 2017, 07:58:14 PM
kellyanne is the power woman america needs as first female president.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:04:19 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 28, 2017, 07:58:14 PM
kellyanne is the power woman america needs as first female president.

See I give you the benefit of the doubt and then you post stupid shit like this. It makes your calls for calm and rationality elsewhere ring a little hollow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 28, 2017, 08:21:41 PM
I think that one was a joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:23:19 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 28, 2017, 08:21:41 PM
I think that one was a joke.

I thought it was a troll. We all knew he was not serious about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 28, 2017, 08:26:46 PM
I don't think you should discredit posts on the basis that sometimes(other times) that poster isn't serious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 08:29:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 28, 2017, 08:26:46 PM
I don't think you should discredit posts on the basis that sometimes(other times) that poster isn't serious.

I don't think I did. He is a well known troll, not a well known jokester.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 28, 2017, 09:08:46 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on February 28, 2017, 11:57:12 AM
Real picture below, but has now exploded the internet with so many memes.  :lol:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5vB7NeUoAEG9dA.jpg)

For balance:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fichef.bbci.co.uk%2Fnews%2F624%2Fcpsprodpb%2F127ED%2Fproduction%2F_94875757_conwayphoto.jpg&hash=c6f21b4b61d93c981213340178ef4048738dd775)

As an aside, don't they have an official photographer in the White house nowadays?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 28, 2017, 11:19:36 PM
I'm guessing it's the person who took the pictures of her taking pictures...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 28, 2017, 11:37:17 PM
Ed loves his interracial gangbang porn.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on February 28, 2017, 11:37:53 PM
YOU HACKED MY SEARCH HISTORY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 01, 2017, 08:50:35 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16806986_10155075264063588_4868632052684354065_n.jpg?oh=faf46bba00b787487843443bbfd59245&oe=59431B12)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 01, 2017, 08:53:17 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 01, 2017, 08:50:35 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16806986_10155075264063588_4868632052684354065_n.jpg?oh=faf46bba00b787487843443bbfd59245&oe=59431B12)

Interesting. So is he not my president then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 01, 2017, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 01, 2017, 08:53:17 AM
Interesting. So is he not my president then?

He is not.  But he IS the president of Ramzi Yousef, the WTC 1993 bomber.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on March 01, 2017, 09:02:39 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 01, 2017, 09:03:36 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 01, 2017, 09:05:11 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 01, 2017, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 01, 2017, 08:53:17 AM
Interesting. So is he not my president then?

He is not.  But he IS the president of Ramzi Yousef, the WTC 1993 bomber.

:)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 01, 2017, 09:09:19 AM
So now Seedy gets to harangue you whenever you comment on the American legal system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 01, 2017, 09:11:50 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 01, 2017, 09:09:19 AM
So now Seedy gets to harangue you whenever you comment on the American legal system.

:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 01, 2017, 09:18:35 AM
#NotmyPresident
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 01, 2017, 09:27:03 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 01, 2017, 09:09:19 AM
So now Seedy gets to harangue you whenever you comment on the American legal system.

Nonsense.  He's safer where he's at.  We're harvesting negros by the bushel with our legal system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on March 01, 2017, 02:45:47 PM
https://thenib.com/high-steaks
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 01, 2017, 05:42:42 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 01, 2017, 02:45:47 PM
https://thenib.com/high-steaks

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 01, 2017, 05:55:27 PM
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 02, 2017, 01:04:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16997946_958241894306242_6218469517776575415_n.jpg?oh=2ed7c3bc8defddc1fe9e07aa4149bf32&oe=5940AEB4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 02, 2017, 05:00:50 AM
I don't get it.

Then I again since summer last year I have been feeling rapidly getting out of touch with current trends.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2017, 02:12:50 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 02, 2017, 05:00:50 AM
I don't get it.

The Democrats used to be the party of segregation and Jim Crow until realignment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 02, 2017, 03:13:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 02, 2017, 01:04:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16997946_958241894306242_6218469517776575415_n.jpg?oh=2ed7c3bc8defddc1fe9e07aa4149bf32&oe=5940AEB4)
given that these ladies are the great grandmas of the people sharing this, it's really funny :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 04, 2017, 01:02:15 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16938724_10155093661897360_5311880666263227628_n.jpg?oh=0c31811a9dd69b901183e95f31d3b52d&oe=593828A2)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17021450_959386387525126_2667157137565786097_n.jpg?oh=3e68a25103de50bc76a53a75fe5a42cd&oe=593892FA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 04, 2017, 01:04:42 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17098181_960022384128193_2462780838125584109_n.jpg?oh=a3a70eeccaefb36d4250e30012b9fe2d&oe=592E60D8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 04, 2017, 01:45:04 PM
 :lol: That was fast
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 04, 2017, 01:57:27 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 04, 2017, 01:02:15 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16938724_10155093661897360_5311880666263227628_n.jpg?oh=0c31811a9dd69b901183e95f31d3b52d&oe=593828A2)

You have to be kidding me, the US is one of the most military-worshipping countries in the world. I know there's very little sense in these "memes", but jeez.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on March 04, 2017, 06:09:05 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16999222_1371743572887385_524767323843124193_n.jpg?oh=7de32be61ee99517db6d051e2de05901&oe=5968FAB5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on March 04, 2017, 08:27:32 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FThL8zUp.jpg&hash=e566cc2b5c2da8b4d4d686dac8af4fc95136adf5)

Lolz
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 05, 2017, 01:19:31 AM
Where my oldest sister gets her news from (besides FOX).

http://conservativefighters.com/news/breaking-one-americas-favorite-restaurant-chains-just-trashed-military-vets-boycott-now/

QuoteNEWSBREAKING One Of America's FAVORITE Restaurant Chains Just TRASHED Our Military Vets – BOYCOTT THEM NOW!

Of all the asinine policies, Dave and Buster's arcade and restaurant in Kentwood, Michigan demanded veterans, Victor Murdock and Adrienne Brown of the American Legion Riders Post 179 of Grandville, MI, remove their vests or vacate the restaurant.

The patches on their vests depicted the American Flag, a bald eagle and the Prisoner of War Flag. The restaurant's management claimed the patches on their vests promoted gang-related symbols.

This is political correctness run amok. According to Military.com, Texas-based Dave and Buster's headquarters issued a statement explaining:

"The group was asked to remove the jackets or turn them inside out because the business' dress code prohibits evidence of gang affiliation. Spokeswoman April Spearman said the policy was in place 'to ensure that everyone is able to enjoy themselves in a fun and safe environment.'"

The American Legion is one of the oldest, most respected veterans' organizations in the country. Since its charter and incorporation by Congress in 1919 following World War I, the American Legion has served as a patriotic veterans organization devoted to mutual helpfulness. The American Legion is most assuredly not a gang. The American Flag, the bald eagle and the Prisoner of War Flag are not gang symbols.

Dave and Buster's needs to reap what they have sown. The internet is full of forums and discussion groups planning to boycott Dave and Buster's for their utter contempt and disrespect of American veterans.

Dave and Buster's is not only disrespecting veterans who have served our country, they are denying them their First Amendment right to freely express themselves.

H/T Worldnewspolitics

What does this say about America when our veterans cannot display the very flag they fought and died for? Not sure how to pronounce it but the word is BOYCOTT.

Follow Donald Trump News on Instagram!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 05, 2017, 02:08:54 AM
That article is about what you'd expect from someone who can't pronounce boycott.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 06, 2017, 07:50:56 AM
QuoteThe American Legion is most assuredly not a gang. The American Flag, the bald eagle and the Prisoner of War Flag are not gang symbols.[/b]

No, it's not.  But the American Legion Riders are not the American Legion, and they wear MC gear and MC gear is a no-no.  Because bikers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on March 06, 2017, 11:22:04 PM
https://twitter.com/MizzzAlia/status/838961703903625216

QuoteAlia‏
@MizzzAlia

Obamacare vs. GOP replacement

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6SXNwkU8AAqYM8.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on March 06, 2017, 11:25:56 PM
I have a Mean Girls / Mean Girls 2 one too if anyone is interested :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on March 07, 2017, 07:21:01 PM
(https://scontent.fphl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16997984_10154290380926512_8898962592878501522_n.jpg?oh=790df3fb0e291806ec318aacff97ec08&oe=592B15B3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 07, 2017, 07:42:54 PM
Without tv, I wouldn't be able to see your movies though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 08, 2017, 03:54:22 PM
Points for using physchologically in a sentence. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 09, 2017, 03:23:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17190837_10212716896580066_7153832135275188970_n.jpg?oh=93bae826daec9d0ec9cd11dda711a734&oe=592CB41A)

"This is a prison ship - it ships prisons." The "This is a Nebelwerfer" memes have gotten to me. :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRCYK5gfLo0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2li27FAQiKk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V6pV9fyUjw
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 09, 2017, 08:58:00 AM
Verpasses for America?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 09, 2017, 10:01:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17022178_963798010417297_4679715436797260635_n.jpg?oh=02326cb1e40ff3d65536c3b4356907f8&oe=596B7E28)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 09, 2017, 10:10:43 AM
There is indeed a preposition missing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 09, 2017, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 09, 2017, 10:10:43 AM
There is indeed a preposition missing.

That often happens for Russians writing in English.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 09, 2017, 11:24:29 AM
It's sometimes grammatically acceptable to omit a preposition.

Foreigners :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 09, 2017, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 09, 2017, 10:01:03 AM
*pic of Lefty bitching about the left*

"Criminal trespassers and potential terrorists?  Isn't everyone a potential terrorist to some degree?


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 09, 2017, 12:46:03 PM
Are you trying to tell us something? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 09, 2017, 03:25:55 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 12:24:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 12:15:02 PM
and Samantha Bee-- ugh.  Nothing good about her.

Naturally the most successful Daily Show spinoff, but yeah, she has a snatch, so fuck that cooze cunt.
You're as predictable as you and your wife's rhythm method calendar.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/samantha-bee-apologizes-to-cancer-patient-over-nazi-haircut-joke
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on March 09, 2017, 05:41:50 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpolitifact%2Fphotos%2Fobamahandcuffs.jpg&hash=d5b9a560c12ec0b92f280dbdf5d2e4ff69c092a5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 09, 2017, 06:45:58 PM
What did Obama know and when did he know it??
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 09, 2017, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 09, 2017, 12:46:03 PM
Are you trying to tell us something?

Yeah, I'm trying to tell you something, you interracial porn cuckmonkey: "criminal trespassers" and "potential terrorists" are inappropriately compounded here.  One is specific and redundant, and the other is hypothetical.  The mouthbreathers really need to get their shit together.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 09, 2017, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 09, 2017, 03:25:55 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 05, 2017, 12:24:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 05, 2017, 12:15:02 PM
and Samantha Bee-- ugh.  Nothing good about her.

Naturally the most successful Daily Show spinoff, but yeah, she has a snatch, so fuck that cooze cunt.
You're as predictable as you and your wife's rhythm method calendar.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/samantha-bee-apologizes-to-cancer-patient-over-nazi-haircut-joke

Big deal; if she had a cock, you wouldn't even have noticed the article.
You're as predictable as you and your wife's rhythm method calendar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on March 15, 2017, 08:47:05 AM
My first meme! Apologies to Habbaku...

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17353415_10155132936774314_7081851828891504645_n.jpg?oh=bf7ed6de2f39727afc5d4e142227d050&oe=592E3587)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2017, 08:51:56 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/17352198_870426326429831_4236258059831430897_n.jpg?oh=1be9305d09d2f4c06c04bf7fb485f3a5&oe=59609910)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 15, 2017, 10:37:05 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2017, 08:47:05 AM
My first meme! Apologies to Habbaku...

:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 15, 2017, 10:43:45 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 15, 2017, 10:37:05 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 15, 2017, 08:47:05 AM
My first meme! Apologies to Habbaku...

:unsure:

If only he put the same effort into his Pax Pamir turn.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2017, 11:04:45 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17342927_10210811465157136_8136238593661906384_n.jpg?oh=1113e25bdc0446e2b32a17bccc563f44&oe=592DA5BC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 15, 2017, 07:44:36 PM
Occupy Democrats is always worth a good strawman.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 15, 2017, 07:59:08 PM
You don't have to have healthcare, you know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 15, 2017, 11:07:39 PM
Overrated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 17, 2017, 06:09:09 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7EzIDfXkAEN_9r.jpg:large)

Not [spoiler]yet[/spoiler] in my FB feed.

Could Pro-AKP tabloids replace British tabloids?  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 17, 2017, 07:12:08 AM
Looks photoshopped.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 17, 2017, 07:38:47 AM
Nah, that's a very famous Turkish Merkelhitler impersonator.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 19, 2017, 02:07:27 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17202845_971644529632645_4370444116568126519_n.jpg?oh=d0a92e958f1bf3d1d05ca940703f021a&oe=5963310A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 19, 2017, 02:08:59 AM
Syt, your sisters need to be put down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 19, 2017, 02:13:34 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 19, 2017, 02:08:59 AM
Syt, your sisters need to be put down.

It's the oldest that's really bad (and white trashiest). The middle one seems to have mellowed a bit for now. The youngest is more in the center, leaning slightly liberal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 19, 2017, 02:15:57 AM
Glass 2/3 full.  Cool.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 19, 2017, 02:21:01 AM
Your sister is proud to be low advertising revenues?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 19, 2017, 02:23:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 19, 2017, 02:21:01 AM
Your sister is proud to be low advertising revenues?

I guess. She's mostly out of work these days. She's a nurse but kept switching jobs a lot. Doesn't help that she's obese which in turn ruined her knees in a job where you spend a lot of time on your feet - she got surgery on her knees, but most it did was put them deeper in debt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on March 19, 2017, 09:42:42 AM
Makes sense she'd want to cut health care coverage then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on March 19, 2017, 03:58:43 PM
She seems to be an idealist. It's probably for a higher purpose.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 19, 2017, 06:31:48 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17352112_10158389102135483_6528529517510948188_n.jpg?oh=ab11962cef573f2483f29c38607a11f4&oe=59562B32)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 19, 2017, 06:47:05 PM
To be fair ugly girls hate pretty girls, so she'd give that look no matter what :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on March 19, 2017, 07:09:09 PM
Ivanka's dad can have Merkel's dad beaten.

(Awaits Assburgers to bring up that Merkel's dad is likely dead)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 21, 2017, 04:13:51 AM
Dear Lord, another Benghazi post. "The Brave Died - Benghazi - The Cowards Lied" :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 21, 2017, 06:43:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 21, 2017, 04:13:51 AM
Dear Lord, another Benghazi post. "The Brave Died - Benghazi - The Cowards Lied" :bleeding:

Just an old rehash of Obama/whoever lied, people died. Boring and unimaginative indeed. :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 21, 2017, 10:43:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 21, 2017, 04:13:51 AM
Dear Lord, another Benghazi post. "The Brave Died - Benghazi - The Cowards Lied" :bleeding:

That's beating the horse after the entire species has gone extinct.
Magnanimity in victory is not a strong point for these people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 21, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--2oLVMsEP--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/osmehyfs6pc8olop2nrt.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 21, 2017, 12:41:42 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 21, 2017, 05:28:38 PM
OMG CIA is watching everything!  :tinfoil:
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17353297_758082781007477_5498242248060842719_n.jpg?oh=c3a00d586d50ff05d14ceaaf9b4dccd7&oe=59717AB0)

Some (bad and good) French skills needed to appreciate this one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 21, 2017, 05:46:09 PM
GF's alias?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 22, 2017, 01:32:07 AM
Quote from: HVC on March 21, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--2oLVMsEP--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/osmehyfs6pc8olop2nrt.jpg)

Fake, the real Trump is fatter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 22, 2017, 02:54:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17362794_766960253458793_2267933124447673304_n.jpg?oh=a0637422589428255ef76b170f31013f&oe=59279D98)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on March 22, 2017, 03:23:15 AM
With it or on it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2017, 04:39:04 AM
Quote from: HVC on March 21, 2017, 05:46:09 PM
GF's alias?

I'd like to think his French is better.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 22, 2017, 06:13:35 AM
Quote from: HVC on March 21, 2017, 05:46:09 PM
GF's alias?

I am not Tim, my mistakes are not over spelling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2017, 06:27:11 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 22, 2017, 06:13:35 AM
Quote from: HVC on March 21, 2017, 05:46:09 PM
GF's alias?

I am not Tim, my mistakes are not over spelling.

Nice try, but that wasn't about spelling but conjugation.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 22, 2017, 07:00:53 AM
Really? Croivez is right sometimes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2017, 08:39:45 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 22, 2017, 07:00:53 AM
Really? Croivez is right sometimes?

Right for people like Ribéry.  :D

:secret: Since it's croire (3rd group) and not croiver (sic), it can't be. Some uneducated people use a wrong subjunctive, use it as a basis and end up with this false infinitive IIRC.

CIA says it's wrong FFS!  :lmfao:

I'm glad at least "croivez" sounds very wrong to you.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 22, 2017, 08:58:32 AM
It's a good joke but then is it really a conjugaison mistake when the word doesn't exist at all?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2017, 09:00:36 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 22, 2017, 08:58:32 AM
It's a good joke but then is it really a conjugaison mistake when the word doesn't exist at all?

I have seen it written on social networks and perhaps heard a couple of times. I would not say it's a common mistake but it happens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 22, 2017, 09:02:48 AM
Ah, la France.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2017, 09:27:24 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 22, 2017, 09:02:48 AM
Ah, la France.

More of a lumpenproletariat thing, itself not exactly really Gallic ahem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on March 22, 2017, 11:36:27 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 22, 2017, 08:39:45 AM.

CIA says it's wrong FFS!  :lmfao:


It would be funny if that had actually happened, but the CIA probably has better things to do than learn French. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 22, 2017, 01:12:14 PM
I would like to think our international intelligence agency knows more languages than just English.  :ph34r:

I mean I know they are Americans and all but still  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on March 22, 2017, 01:45:36 PM
You'd be surprised...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on March 23, 2017, 11:58:27 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/17424844_1537051076314491_5328753141355285270_n.jpg?oh=f879bc88035d04d1962919bb3b9c500c&oe=59731674)

Yeah, the theme in chess doesn't work at all. Maybe the original Indian game made more sense?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 23, 2017, 12:31:34 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2017, 12:34:21 PM
"Rook" comes from a Persian word meaning chariot.  The queen was originally some kind of vizier.  The bishop was something completely different. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2017, 12:37:46 PM
In France the bishop is called le fou, the madman.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 23, 2017, 12:39:18 PM
In German, the Bishop is Läufer, or runner. The Knight is Springer, or jumper. Rook is Turm, or tower. Pawn is Bauer, or peasant. Queen is Dame, or Lady.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2017, 12:42:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 23, 2017, 12:39:18 PM
In German, the Bishop is Läufer, or runner. The Knight is Springer, or jumper. Rook is Turm, or tower. Pawn is Bauer, or peasant. Queen is Dame, or Lady.

I thought Tor was tower.

"Die kasserne tor.."

:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2017, 12:51:24 PM
Tor is more like "gate" IIRC.  Always confused me that the Eschenheimer Turm (tower) was on the Eschenheimer Tor (street and subway stop)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on March 23, 2017, 01:02:05 PM
That's because the Eschenheimer Turm is a Torturm, i.e. Gate Tower.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2017, 01:10:06 PM
Yes, the Ford of the Franks used to be smaller back in the day. It needed facilities to process entrances and levy entrance taxes like other cities. Another turm in Bockhenheimer near the university.
"Portes" i.e gates stilll mark the limits of Paris intra-muros.

PS: Tor also means in goal in association football. ;)
Portier, doorman in French, is still used for goalkeeper
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 23, 2017, 01:38:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2017, 12:42:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 23, 2017, 12:39:18 PM
In German, the Bishop is Läufer, or runner. The Knight is Springer, or jumper. Rook is Turm, or tower. Pawn is Bauer, or peasant. Queen is Dame, or Lady.

I thought Tor was tower.

"Die kasserne tor.."

:unsure:

LG
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 23, 2017, 02:02:30 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2017, 12:34:21 PM
"Rook" comes from a Persian word meaning chariot.  The queen was originally some kind of vizier.  The bishop was something completely different.

Bishop was an elephant.  Originally it was shaped like a Tusk, Europeans thought it was mitre.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 23, 2017, 06:44:50 PM
Your president pretending to dive a truck like a toddler

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-03/23/17/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-03/sub-buzz-29046-1490303804-1.jpg?resize=625:417)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2017, 06:46:31 PM
Method acting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 23, 2017, 06:47:39 PM
You can just hear him doing the sound effects.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 23, 2017, 07:00:33 PM

That is a real button.


(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic6.businessinsider.com%2Fimage%2F58d437ac112f7060008b6824-1200%2Fafter-the-fun-trump-sported-an-i-love-trucks-button-for-the-listening-session-in-the-cabinet-room-of-the-white-house.jpg&hash=5b9edf185f9f3bf71ac0f22bb6c8d117b268691f)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 23, 2017, 07:17:09 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 23, 2017, 06:47:39 PM
You can just hear him doing the sound effects.

This is why Speiss voted for him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 23, 2017, 07:24:44 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 23, 2017, 07:17:09 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 23, 2017, 06:47:39 PM
You can just hear him doing the sound effects.

This is why Speiss voted for him.

Nah, if anything he'd have voted for him to keep the inlaws out of the country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 23, 2017, 07:47:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2017, 12:34:21 PM
"Rook" comes from a Persian word meaning chariot.  The queen was originally some kind of vizier.  The bishop was something completely different.
In Russian, the rook is a boat, the knight is the horse, the bishop is the elephant, and the queen is the vizier.  Not sure why a castle tower is a boat and a pinhead is an elephant, but that's what they're called.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on March 23, 2017, 08:17:43 PM
In Hungarian, they are all beets.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on March 23, 2017, 08:37:36 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7pVEoMU8AA6fcY.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on March 23, 2017, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 23, 2017, 08:37:36 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7pVEoMU8AA6fcY.jpg)

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 23, 2017, 09:54:35 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 23, 2017, 08:37:36 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7pVEoMU8AA6fcY.jpg)

That is rather funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on March 23, 2017, 10:32:18 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 23, 2017, 06:44:50 PM
Your president pretending to dive a truck like a toddler

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-03/23/17/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-03/sub-buzz-29046-1490303804-1.jpg?resize=625:417)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7oerPBXwAMvt37.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on March 24, 2017, 01:05:11 AM
Jobwise trucking will go the way of coal-mining soon, so it's not a surprise that Trump likes it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on March 24, 2017, 08:10:28 AM
Is Donald the fattest President since Taft?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 24, 2017, 08:19:06 AM
I know, so much for that thing about the President had to be a handsome in shape man. Though I think Clinton got a little pudgy towards the end.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 24, 2017, 08:26:14 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 23, 2017, 07:47:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2017, 12:34:21 PM
"Rook" comes from a Persian word meaning chariot.  The queen was originally some kind of vizier.  The bishop was something completely different.
In Russian, the rook is a boat, the knight is the horse, the bishop is the elephant, and the queen is the vizier.  Not sure why a castle tower is a boat and a pinhead is an elephant, but that's what they're called.

I just explained the elephant thing!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
You guys lay off Trump.  We all went through phases where we were fascinated by trucks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 24, 2017, 08:40:42 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
You guys lay off Trump.  We all went through phases where we were fascinated by trucks.

I didn't but boy does my second son love trucks. I better not let him know about this or he will join the alt-right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 24, 2017, 08:46:05 AM
My son, for his 4th birthday, ask for a toy garbage truck. I told him he already has one. He answered back that he needs a 2nd one for recycling. #BuymoreTrucks
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 08:53:26 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 24, 2017, 08:40:42 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
You guys lay off Trump.  We all went through phases where we were fascinated by trucks.

I didn't but boy does my second son love trucks. I better not let him know about this or he will join the alt-right.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 24, 2017, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 24, 2017, 08:19:06 AM
I know, so much for that thing about the President had to be a handsome in shape man. Though I think Clinton got a little pudgy towards the end.

At least Clinton's penis worked.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 24, 2017, 09:43:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
You guys lay off Trump.  We all went through phases where we were fascinated by trucks.

Yeah; at 7, not 70.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 24, 2017, 10:12:59 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 24, 2017, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 24, 2017, 08:19:06 AM
I know, so much for that thing about the President had to be a handsome in shape man. Though I think Clinton got a little pudgy towards the end.

At least Clinton's penis worked.
:yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 24, 2017, 10:41:12 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2017, 10:12:59 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 24, 2017, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 24, 2017, 08:19:06 AM
I know, so much for that thing about the President had to be a handsome in shape man. Though I think Clinton got a little pudgy towards the end.

At least Clinton's penis worked.
:yes:

Oh no, are you on about that again. I'd hoped that was just an Obama thing with you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 24, 2017, 09:43:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
You guys lay off Trump.  We all went through phases where we were fascinated by trucks.

Yeah; at 7, not 70.

whoosh
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 24, 2017, 12:59:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 24, 2017, 09:43:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
You guys lay off Trump.  We all went through phases where we were fascinated by trucks.

Yeah; at 7, not 70.

whoosh

they sound more like vroom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 24, 2017, 01:00:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 24, 2017, 09:43:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
You guys lay off Trump.  We all went through phases where we were fascinated by trucks.

Yeah; at 7, not 70.

whoosh

Save it, Rubber Ducky.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 24, 2017, 04:26:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 24, 2017, 09:43:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
You guys lay off Trump.  We all went through phases where we were fascinated by trucks.

Yeah; at 7, not 70.

whoosh

Grumbler?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2017, 02:20:10 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17361581_672136542989289_1683646117705395747_n.jpg?oh=f1839787029e51d77849d3f890c2d098&oe=594CB364)

(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17458227_1292446680851496_1346829598740378237_n.jpg?oh=7e5d4f674cc044c685099c90dfd74118&oe=59664113)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on March 25, 2017, 02:22:39 AM
Nothing on the failure of TrumpCare?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2017, 02:23:30 AM
Syt, you're a funny guy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2017, 02:26:19 AM
Quote from: Zanza on March 25, 2017, 02:22:39 AM
Nothing on the failure of TrumpCare?

Not yet. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 25, 2017, 07:41:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 24, 2017, 08:19:06 AM
I know, so much for that thing about the President had to be a handsome in shape man. Though I think Clinton got a little pudgy towards the end.

What "thing" was that?  I'm no good judge of men's looks, but I'd say that the only post WW2 Presidents we've had who were handsome were Kennedy and Reagan, and possibly Clinton.  MaybeBush the Younger and Obama.  Certainly not Johnson, Nixon, or Carter.

Forum women and gays, what say you on the subject?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 25, 2017, 07:59:31 AM
Quote from: dps on March 25, 2017, 07:41:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 24, 2017, 08:19:06 AM
I know, so much for that thing about the President had to be a handsome in shape man. Though I think Clinton got a little pudgy towards the end.

What "thing" was that?  I'm no good judge of men's looks, but I'd say that the only post WW2 Presidents we've had who were handsome were Kennedy and Reagan, and possibly Clinton.  MaybeBush the Younger and Obama.  Certainly not Johnson, Nixon, or Carter.

Forum women and gays, what say you on the subject?

Wasn't Ford actually a male model in his youth?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on March 25, 2017, 08:01:13 AM
W was in pretty good shape. Who was the last overweight president? Clinton?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 25, 2017, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2017, 02:20:10 AM


(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17458227_1292446680851496_1346829598740378237_n.jpg?oh=7e5d4f674cc044c685099c90dfd74118&oe=59664113)

It take quite a bit of double think to believe that an election was rigged against you, but you still won.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2017, 10:17:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 25, 2017, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2017, 02:20:10 AM


(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17458227_1292446680851496_1346829598740378237_n.jpg?oh=7e5d4f674cc044c685099c90dfd74118&oe=59664113)

It take quite a bit of double think to believe that an election was rigged against you, but you still won.

He was just that popular.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 25, 2017, 10:20:17 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2017, 02:20:10 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17361581_672136542989289_1683646117705395747_n.jpg?oh=f1839787029e51d77849d3f890c2d098&oe=594CB364)

Are rich spoiled kids the ones getting shot by the cops?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 25, 2017, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 25, 2017, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2017, 02:20:10 AM


(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17458227_1292446680851496_1346829598740378237_n.jpg?oh=7e5d4f674cc044c685099c90dfd74118&oe=59664113)

It take quite a bit of double think to believe that an election was rigged against you, but you still won.
What an odd choice of a laugh picture as well.  Wasn't that the "whew, I'm not getting whacked today" fake laugh?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2017, 11:01:22 AM
Nothing fake about it. Well besides that Liotta was acting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 25, 2017, 11:03:19 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2017, 11:01:22 AM
Nothing fake about it. Well besides that Liotta was acting.
It was an acted fake laugh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2017, 11:04:51 AM
It was relief. Not the same.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 25, 2017, 11:20:06 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2017, 11:04:51 AM
It was relief. Not the same.
It was a fake exaggerated laugh by everyone to humor an unstable nut, everyone at that time was still terrified of the loose cannon even after the tension seemed resolved.  It's a fitting scene to today's times, just not in the way that the people putting that meme together thought.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 25, 2017, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 25, 2017, 10:20:17 AM
Are rich spoiled kids the ones getting shot by the cops?

I'm not sure anyone is being shot by those cops.  They aren't American cops.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on March 25, 2017, 07:13:52 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTs30bUM.gif&hash=46a0e4c2123b0b6c5bdd6c17de879a1605aeed98)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on March 26, 2017, 03:53:37 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 28, 2017, 01:47:32 PM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/p720x720/17504677_1358954867500108_1648112722828492399_o.jpg?oh=00def616a6009142eaf75fc20412ce5c&oe=594FF986)

Growing in a whitriarcal academic environment.  Non mixed discussion night between women and non-binary racialized people.
Organized by racialized Uqamians in action!

UQAM: Hyper leftist university in Montreal.  Safe space&all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 28, 2017, 01:53:14 PM
Well UQAM is very white.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2017, 01:57:02 PM
I notice lots of Arabs in the area.  Don't know if they're students.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 28, 2017, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 28, 2017, 01:53:14 PM
Well UQAM is very white.
Quebec is still very white ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 28, 2017, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 28, 2017, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 28, 2017, 01:53:14 PM
Well UQAM is very white.
Quebec is still very white ;)


Not white enough for some people
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 28, 2017, 03:06:57 PM
They would accept you if you spoke French.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 28, 2017, 04:04:48 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 28, 2017, 01:47:32 PM

Growing in a whitriarcal academic environment.  Non mixed discussion night between women and non-binary racialized people.
Organized by racialized Uqamians in action!

UQAM: Hyper leftist university in Montreal.  Safe space&all.

Blantriarchal (sic)  :hmm:  :bleeding: or  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 28, 2017, 04:15:32 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 28, 2017, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 28, 2017, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 28, 2017, 01:53:14 PM
Well UQAM is very white.
Quebec is still very white ;)


Not white enough for some people
Not white enough, true.
Not english enough, also true.
Not french enough, also true.
Not left enough, true.
Not right enough, again true.
I think you're very close on piercing the veil on Quebec's distinctiveness ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2017, 02:32:08 AM
So it seems Trump is giving Vietnam veterans their own memorial day. Are there other memorial days for veterans of specific wars?

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p235x350/17309851_1377410458968792_4675985460558730356_n.jpg?oh=3681af63fdcab3eecee097875357f356&oe=5961C5F0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2017, 02:48:04 AM
No.  And pretty sure Trump can't make it an official thing without Congress.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2017, 04:19:19 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2017, 02:48:04 AM
No.  And pretty sure Trump can't make it an official thing without Congress.

Seems to have happened already?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/03/28/president-donald-j-trump-signs-s-305-law

QuotePresident Donald J. Trump Signs S. 305 into Law

On Tuesday, March 28, 2017, the President signed into law:

S. 305, the "Vietnam War Veterans Recognition Act of 2017," which encourages the display of the U.S. flag on March 29, National Vietnam War Veterans Day.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 05:40:35 AM
This nation's wounds will never heal until each and every veteran from Operation Urgent Fury finally comes home.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 30, 2017, 05:48:15 AM
Apparently, Obama had announced such for one day back in 2012. Seems a bit odd to have but I don't feel strongly either way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2017, 06:07:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 05:40:35 AM
This nation's wounds will never heal until each and every veteran from Operation Urgent Fury finally comes home.

Some are still hanging out in their beach cabanas?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 06:15:21 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 30, 2017, 06:07:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 05:40:35 AM
This nation's wounds will never heal until each and every veteran from Operation Urgent Fury finally comes home.

Some are still hanging out in their beach cabanas?

#NoBloodForNutmeg
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2017, 08:33:06 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17098451_10213109911851180_4202607508016960635_n.jpg?oh=8475db33c569b13542699b38d64ec902&oe=59612CE1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 30, 2017, 08:41:07 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 05:40:35 AM
This nation's wounds will never heal until each and every veteran from Operation Urgent Fury finally comes home.

Daddy, what was Grenada?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 10:07:06 AM
"He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct. And he is still in the field commanding Cuban construction workers."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 30, 2017, 10:10:44 AM
Fireblade was almost stoned to death. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 10:12:17 AM
In Grenada?  Was he even born then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 30, 2017, 10:13:24 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 10:12:17 AM
In Grenada?  Was he even born then?

No.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2017, 12:51:55 PM
http://www.americanow.com/story/politics/2017/03/21/county-sheriffs-controversial-sign-goes-viral-photo

QuoteCounty Sheriff's Controversial Sign Goes Viral (Photo)

A sheriff in rural Georgia put up a sign to greet motorists entering the county that has been sparking conversation both in the small town and online.

Harris County Sheriff Mike Jolley recently added a second part to the county's welcome sign, which lets people entering the community know exactly where they stand politically.

According to AWM, directly below Harris County's welcome sign is a smaller custom sign that reads, "Warning: Harris County is politically incorrect. We say: Merry Christmas, God Bless America and In God We Trust. We salute our troops and our flag. If this offends you... LEAVE!"

Jolley said that he decided to put up the sign because he felt that traditional values are being marginalized in today's society. He said that he had the idea after he saw a similar sign put up in another state.

"It's time for the silent majority to stand up for our beliefs and not be ashamed," Jolley said.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fawm.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F09%2F451f3c503a2d28c76e711a9268f30b00-500x279.jpg&hash=7954f1660da2ae5e7aa0588654ade01cd5575b81)

Some criticized the town for using public funds to pay for the sign, but Jolley says that he paid for the sign with his own money and that he plans to buy more to put up around the community.

Responding to critics who say that he is going too far in sharing his personal beliefs, the sheriff said, "I spent 20 years in the United States Army in defense of those people who want to say they don't support the sign. And I fought for that right to have the ability to say they don't support it."

Jolley said that he received many positive comments about the sign as well. He said that he hopes that the positive feedback may be a sign of a change to come.

"Maybe the silent majority isn't going to be silent anymore," he added.

Jolley's sign received a number of supportive comments after the story was shared online.

One Newsiosity reader commented, "This sheriff is absolutely right! Sir, thank you for your military service as well as your law enforcement service. God bless you."

"Love the sign! It's time for Americans everywhere to start standing up for what we believe in and if these people coming in don't like it go back where they came from," another user commented. "We are Americans with freedom of choice to live that life God blesses us with and we are not going to stand by and let these people that hate us come in and take out freedoms away from us.Thank you for your service to our country and your stand."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 30, 2017, 01:02:01 PM
Is that a good sign?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 01:02:57 PM
"WHITES ONLY" would've just been cheaper.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on March 30, 2017, 01:18:00 PM
He is a very careful douchebag.

I can respect that - he is very careful to word his sign to likely meet the letter of the separation clause.

He manages to come across like a bigoted asshole by just saying that in his town, people say things that people say all over the place routinely without any need to put up signs saying they say those things...then telling people to leave if they don't like it.

I wonder who might leave because people say "Merry Christmas"?

I might leave because the local sheriff is kind of an asshole...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 30, 2017, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 30, 2017, 01:18:00 PM
I wonder who might leave because people say "Merry Christmas"?
The Grinch?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 01:37:36 PM
That sign's been up since 2015.  He paid for it with his own money, but the SD's website has a link for "Politically Incorrect" t-shirts for sale.  Right next to the county jail directory menu.

He's been elected for six consecutive terms apparently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 30, 2017, 01:40:57 PM
I was not aware that any of those things was politically incorrect. In fact I am pretty sure that each and every one of those things is considered politically correct. I mean can you get more politically incorrect than ever say something bad about the troops?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 30, 2017, 01:47:54 PM
If only crazy white people were a 'silent' majority.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 30, 2017, 03:19:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 30, 2017, 01:37:36 PM
That sign's been up since 2015.  He paid for it with his own money, but the SD's website has a link for "Politically Incorrect" t-shirts for sale.  Right next to the county jail directory menu.

He's been elected for six consecutive terms apparently.

The usual turnover for Sheriff offices in his part of the state is pretty low--and usually due to death or retirement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 31, 2017, 08:25:32 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17353573_1779668325684983_1528952902014236842_n.jpg?oh=1fb5fd6c9d58e417c0f452964ffea893&oe=59998045)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 31, 2017, 08:33:31 AM
Is that supposed to be about anyone in particular?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 31, 2017, 08:53:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 31, 2017, 08:33:31 AM
Is that supposed to be about anyone in particular?

My nephew's ex, presumably.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 31, 2017, 08:57:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 30, 2017, 01:47:54 PM
If only crazy white people were a 'silent' majority.

Srsly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on March 31, 2017, 07:47:21 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzEddC79.jpg&hash=20a43713e2c6dec5d953393aa38544152890c334)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 31, 2017, 08:37:08 PM
I can get where it probably sucks that his female underlings have a disadvantage when it comes to facetime with the boss but illegal?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 31, 2017, 09:02:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 31, 2017, 08:37:08 PM
I can get where it probably sucks that his female underlings have a disadvantage when it comes to facetime with the boss but illegal?

He has a male staffer and a female staffer;  he meets with the male staffer, but not the female staffer.  That could be construed as discrimination, which is illegal.  But hey, she's probably a filthy fucking cunt anyway, so who gives a fuck.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 01, 2017, 01:47:00 AM
Why not dine alone with a woman? What is he afraid of?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 02:06:59 AM
To be fair, if a Muslim guy would be called out for a similar policy, the left would be up in arms to defend his religious freedom to do so
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 01, 2017, 02:08:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on April 01, 2017, 01:47:00 AM
Why not dine alone with a woman? What is he afraid of?

Temptation.  Rumors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 01, 2017, 02:09:17 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17629982_10154248244167032_2361995828339218630_n.jpg?oh=c8ade5a315974da40d46ce76f23784d6&oe=5969F54C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Phillip V on April 01, 2017, 02:21:02 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 01, 2017, 02:08:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on April 01, 2017, 01:47:00 AM
Why not dine alone with a woman? What is he afraid of?

Temptation.  Rumors.

Mike Pence Asks Waiter To Remove Mrs. Butterworth From Table Until Wife Arrives

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.onionstatic.com%2Fonion%2F5668%2F6%2F16x9%2F960.jpg&hash=d7009c20b96b0d312a258235f4fd87db370b9c75)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 01, 2017, 02:23:13 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 01, 2017, 02:09:17 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17629982_10154248244167032_2361995828339218630_n.jpg?oh=c8ade5a315974da40d46ce76f23784d6&oe=5969F54C)

yowza
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 01, 2017, 04:28:15 AM
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 06:13:41 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 02:06:59 AM
To be fair, if a Muslim guy would be called out for a similar policy, the left would be up in arms to defend his religious freedom to do so

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on April 01, 2017, 07:29:49 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 02:06:59 AM
To be fair, if a Muslim guy would be called out for a similar policy, the left would be up in arms to defend his religious freedom to do so

Perhaps true, but then, there's no way a Muslim would be VP of the US. 

Still, Pence's behavior is rathet quaint, but if he wants to prioritize avoidance of scandal and his marriage, good for him.

In any case, there's not too much danger of his choices becoming popularized.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

:huh:


No, he has medieval views on decency. It's lame, but then again the same people who scrutinise him for this, loudly defend the Muslim headscarf. You can't be cherry picking: either both medieval views on decency and gender roles are obsolete, or neither of them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 08:21:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

:huh:


No, he has medieval views on decency. It's lame, but then again the same people who scrutinise him for this, loudly defend the Muslim headscarf. You can't be cherry picking: either both medieval views on decency and gender roles are obsolete, or neither of them.

You keep setting up these strawmen, brah.

At any rate, no it isn't medieval views on decency, it is medieval views on gender. Not surprising as he's a known misogynist, but still fuck him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 08:23:58 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/31/mike-pence-doesnt-eat-alone-women-speaks-volumes

QuoteMike Pence doesn't eat alone with women. That speaks volumes

I have to hand it to conservatives: it's 2017, and somehow they have Americans debating whether it's appropriate to dine alone with a woman.

You see, this week a Washington Post article about Karen Pence revealed that the vice-president will not eat a meal with a woman other than his wife. Those on the right are commending Pence's marital devotion and moral fortitude, claiming that such a rule is a smart defense against sexual temptation.

One conservative blogger questioned where there was ever a good reason for a married person to eat out alone with a member of the opposite sex; the former CEO of the blog RedState chimed in to answer: "Planning your spouse's surprise party or funeral and that is it."

Why overwhelming sexual desire is only a danger over a plate of pasta, I'm not sure, but perhaps this explains the noticeable lack of women in White House photos – they're all out to lunch!

While Republicans swoon over Pence's supposed old-school propriety, the rest of us were simply reminded that you don't need to brag about "grabbing pussies" to be a misogynist.

Never mind what it means for the (very few) women who work in the White House, who apparently can't count on business dinners or mentorship over a meal. The underlying message of a rule like Pence's is the same one that's taught to teens in abstinence-only education classes: men can't control themselves when alone with women.

It's an insulting view of men, a limiting role for women – we're there to either entice or domesticate – and an archaic take on gender roles more generally.

As the Black List founder Franklin Leonard noted, if Keith Ellison – who is Muslim – "refused to dine one on one with women and used his religion to justify it, the political right would lose their minds".

While we were all fighting about Pence's dinner plans, though, Republicans were hard at work attacking women and their rights while putting on a show of caring about gender justice.

The same week the first lady gave a speech at the state department's International Women of Courage Awards, insisting: "We must continue to fight injustice in all its forms, in whatever scale or shape it takes in our lives," the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, chastised the veteran reporter April Ryan for "shaking her head" at him. (Just last month, Trump asked Ryan if the those in the Congressional Black Caucus were "friends" of hers.)

While the president was asking a room full of women if they had ever heard of Susan B Anthony, the conservative Fox News host Bill O'Reilly was under fire for making a racist and sexist comment about the California congresswoman Maxine Water's hair and an Iowa legislator said that if a pregnant woman found out her fetus has died, she should carry the pregnancy to term anyway.

And while Pence trended on Twitter for his old-school sexism, what went largely unremarked on was that the vice-president cast the tie-breaking vote to push forward legislation that allows states to discriminate against Planned Parenthood and other healthcare providers that provide abortion when giving out federal Title X funds.

Pence is a misogynist. We know it from his voting record, we know it from the things that he's said about women's rights and now we know it because of his odd personal rule not to dine with women alone. But let's not let one man's sexism distract us from his whole party's sexist agenda.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 08:27:06 AM
Who the fuck cares who Pence eats with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2017, 08:32:24 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 08:27:06 AM
Who the fuck cares who Pence eats with.

I guess I could explain it but that would require me to assume you are illiterate and been unable to read the past few pages of posts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 08:41:44 AM
You can't explain it without them coming across as petty and hyper-partisan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on April 01, 2017, 08:42:55 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

:huh:


No, he has medieval views on decency. It's lame, but then again the same people who scrutinise him for this, loudly defend the Muslim headscarf. You can't be cherry picking: either both medieval views on decency and gender roles are obsolete, or neither of them.
Your assertion that people who criticize Pence for this would not criticize other religious-conservative habits like headscarves or so is built on what exactly? Or did you just pull that out of your ass because you have absolutely no way to know?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 08:48:59 AM
Quote from: Zanza on April 01, 2017, 08:42:55 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

:huh:


No, he has medieval views on decency. It's lame, but then again the same people who scrutinise him for this, loudly defend the Muslim headscarf. You can't be cherry picking: either both medieval views on decency and gender roles are obsolete, or neither of them.
Your assertion that people who criticize Pence for this would not criticize other religious-conservative habits like headscarves or so is built on what exactly? Or did you just pull that out of your ass because you have absolutely no way to know?

We can try. Would garbon say "fuck him/her" to those who think decent women wear headscarves?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 09:08:44 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 08:48:59 AM
Quote from: Zanza on April 01, 2017, 08:42:55 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

:huh:


No, he has medieval views on decency. It's lame, but then again the same people who scrutinise him for this, loudly defend the Muslim headscarf. You can't be cherry picking: either both medieval views on decency and gender roles are obsolete, or neither of them.
Your assertion that people who criticize Pence for this would not criticize other religious-conservative habits like headscarves or so is built on what exactly? Or did you just pull that out of your ass because you have absolutely no way to know?

We can try. Would garbon say "fuck him/her" to those who think decent women wear headscarves?

Yes? I mean if there's a woman who wants to where a headscarf, I'm fine with her making that choice. After all, who am I to tell a woman she can make her own choices but only insofar as she makes the choices I think she should make?

If it was a man (or woman) saying that all women should be compelled to wear headscarves, fuck him. Not even a question. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2017, 09:16:13 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 08:41:44 AM
You can't explain it without them coming across as petty and hyper-partisan.

Hey if you want to make personal attack I appreciate you coming out in the open and doing it and not hiding behind bullshit like 'Who the fuck cares who Pence eats with' when we have explained that we do and why. Anyway I have been called worse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 09:20:02 AM
Right. I'll just leave you on your cross.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 09:29:30 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 09:20:02 AM
Right. I'll just leave you on your cross.

Who cares what Eddie Teach permits?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
:huh:


No, he has medieval views on decency. It's lame, but then again the same people who scrutinise him for this, loudly defend the Muslim headscarf. You can't be cherry picking: either both medieval views on decency and gender roles are obsolete, or neither of them.

:huh:  One is about what you choose, yourself, to wear.  The other is about how you treat roughly 50% of the people in earth.  That you cannot see the difference is telling.  The perceptive among us have no difficulty seeing one as harmless and the other as harmful.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 09:39:16 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 08:27:06 AM
Who the fuck cares who Pence eats with.

Pence certainly does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:39:41 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 09:29:30 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 09:20:02 AM
Right. I'll just leave you on your cross.

Who cares what Eddie Teach permits?
Indeed.  there are none so ignorant as the willfully ignorant.  I'd say "let him stew in his ignorance.'  Who cares that Eddie Teach doesn't understand human decency?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2017, 09:41:18 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 09:20:02 AM
Right. I'll just leave you on your cross.

Dude it is not a big deal. It just does not reflect well on Pence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 09:46:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:39:41 AM
Who cares that Eddie Teach doesn't understand human decency?

What a tolerant bunch. A man makes a personal decision regarding whom he eats with and it's an affront to human decency.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 09:46:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:39:41 AM
Who cares that Eddie Teach doesn't understand human decency?

What a tolerant bunch. A man makes a personal decision regarding whom he eats with and it's an affront to human decency.

Actaually, I went back and checked that original article and discovered that Pence's rule was not what I had thought it was.  He was just talking about himself, and he said this in 2002, so I withdraw my assertion that he was suggesting a general rule.  I have no problem with him having a private and personal rule about dining without his wife, so long as it doesn't amount to favoritism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Actaually, I went back and checked that original article and discovered that Pence's rule was not what I had thought it was.  He was just talking about himself, and he said this in 2002, so I withdraw my assertion that he was suggesting a general rule.  I have no problem with him having a private and personal rule about dining without his wife, so long as it doesn't amount to favoritism.

Women are nothing more than filthy cunty useless cumdumpsters that do nothing but make them look at their tits and toe cleavage, and therefore do not have the right to sit alone with the Governor of Indiana/Vice President of the United States to discuss policy.  You do, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Actaually, I went back and checked that original article and discovered that Pence's rule was not what I had thought it was.  He was just talking about himself, and he said this in 2002, so I withdraw my assertion that he was suggesting a general rule.  I have no problem with him having a private and personal rule about dining without his wife, so long as it doesn't amount to favoritism.

Women are nothing more than filthy cunty useless cumdumpsters that do nothing but make them look at their tits and toe cleavage, and therefore do not have the right to sit alone with the Governor of Indiana/Vice President of the United States to discuss policy.  You do, though.

Well, yeah, and if you wear a head scarf because that's what decent women do, then you do imply and indirectly declare that all headscarf-less women are indecent. Didn't see you being up in arms about that though.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 10:11:27 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Actaually, I went back and checked that original article and discovered that Pence's rule was not what I had thought it was.  He was just talking about himself, and he said this in 2002, so I withdraw my assertion that he was suggesting a general rule.  I have no problem with him having a private and personal rule about dining without his wife, so long as it doesn't amount to favoritism.

Women are nothing more than filthy cunty useless cumdumpsters that do nothing but make them look at their tits and toe cleavage, and therefore do not have the right to sit alone with the Governor of Indiana/Vice President of the United States to discuss policy.  You do, though.

In actual fairness, I'm not sure why a woman would want to sit with Pence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Actaually, I went back and checked that original article and discovered that Pence's rule was not what I had thought it was.  He was just talking about himself, and he said this in 2002, so I withdraw my assertion that he was suggesting a general rule.  I have no problem with him having a private and personal rule about dining without his wife, so long as it doesn't amount to favoritism.

Women are nothing more than filthy cunty useless cumdumpsters that do nothing but make them look at their tits and toe cleavage, and therefore do not have the right to sit alone with the Governor of Indiana/Vice President of the United States to discuss policy.  You do, though.

Well, yeah, and if you wear a head scarf because that's what decent women do, then you do imply and indirectly declare that all headscarf-less women are indecent. Didn't see you being up in arms about that though.



Oh you are now the expert on what people secretly and indirectly imply when they wear headscarves? Give me a break.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 10:08:52 AM
Well, yeah, and if you wear a head scarf because that's what decent women do, then you do imply and indirectly declare that all headscarf-less women are indecent. Didn't see you being up in arms about that though.

Whether she's wearing a headscarf or not doesn't stop her from doing her job. Keeping her out of the room because the boss can't be with her alone does.  You hateful little gypsy antisemite dirtfarmer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 10:14:37 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 01, 2017, 09:46:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:39:41 AM
Who cares that Eddie Teach doesn't understand human decency?

What a tolerant bunch. A man makes a personal decision regarding whom he eats with and it's an affront to human decency.

Tolerant of sexism? No, I'm not.

Just like I'd be up in arms if his personal policy was that he won't have dinner alone with a black person.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 10:19:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 10:14:37 AM
Just like I'd be up in arms if his personal policy was that he won't have dinner alone with a black person.

Your plate's staying warm in the kitchen, g.  Thanks for stopping by.  You can read the meeting minutes tomorrow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Actaually, I went back and checked that original article and discovered that Pence's rule was not what I had thought it was.  He was just talking about himself, and he said this in 2002, so I withdraw my assertion that he was suggesting a general rule.  I have no problem with him having a private and personal rule about dining without his wife, so long as it doesn't amount to favoritism.

Women are nothing more than filthy cunty useless cumdumpsters that do nothing but make them look at their tits and toe cleavage, and therefore do not have the right to sit alone with the Governor of Indiana/Vice President of the United States to discuss policy.  You do, though.

Well, yeah, and if you wear a head scarf because that's what decent women do, then you do imply and indirectly declare that all headscarf-less women are indecent. Didn't see you being up in arms about that though.



Oh you are now the expert on what people secretly and indirectly imply when they wear headscarves? Give me a break.

I am exactly as much an expert on that, as you are on why Pence doesn't want to dine with women without his wife present.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 10:57:51 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Actaually, I went back and checked that original article and discovered that Pence's rule was not what I had thought it was.  He was just talking about himself, and he said this in 2002, so I withdraw my assertion that he was suggesting a general rule.  I have no problem with him having a private and personal rule about dining without his wife, so long as it doesn't amount to favoritism.

Women are nothing more than filthy cunty useless cumdumpsters that do nothing but make them look at their tits and toe cleavage, and therefore do not have the right to sit alone with the Governor of Indiana/Vice President of the United States to discuss policy.  You do, though.

Well, yeah, and if you wear a head scarf because that's what decent women do, then you do imply and indirectly declare that all headscarf-less women are indecent. Didn't see you being up in arms about that though.



Oh you are now the expert on what people secretly and indirectly imply when they wear headscarves? Give me a break.

I am exactly as much an expert on that, as you are on why Pence doesn't want to dine with women without his wife present.

I don't think there's really any hidden reason behind this:

QuoteIn 2002, Mike Pence told the Hill that he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife and that he won't attend events featuring alcohol without her by his side, either.

Whereas it is a bit harder to analyze the thoughts of a generic woman wearing headscarf.

By the by, would you be okay with a woman wearing a headscarf is she wore a sign stating that she wasn't judging women who don't wear a headscarf? ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 01, 2017, 11:49:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 06:13:41 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2017, 02:06:59 AM
To be fair, if a Muslim guy would be called out for a similar policy, the left would be up in arms to defend his religious freedom to do so

:rolleyes:
he is right.  In some countries, discrimination by religious group other than christians are quite acceptable.  Forcing non muslim women to cover themselves before meeting a religious leader, having them enter from a seperate entrance, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on April 01, 2017, 12:05:46 PM
QuoteBill Clinton Calls Mike Pence's Strict Marital Practices 'Excessive'
March 31, 2017
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U.S.—In a candid new interview, former President Bill Clinton commented Friday on the recent revelation that Vice President Mike Pence refuses to dine alone with women who are not his wife, saying the strict guidelines are "ridiculous" and "excessive."

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"The only woman he'll spend time alone with is his wife? Come on, that's way over the top," Clinton said. "I think we powerful men should be able to get away with a little one-on-one time with a cute coworker without making a move. What are we, savages?"

"Can't you exercise a little self control, Mr. Vice President?" he challenged.

Voicing his disdain for the so-called "Billy Graham rule" employed by Pence, Clinton went on to say that he does adhere to the more realistic "Jimmy Swaggart rule," wherein he makes it a point to never tell his wife when he is going to be alone with other women.



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on April 01, 2017, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

I don't see it that way.  I see it more from the following 2 perspectives:

1. An admission that he is a fallible man attracted to women, some of whom may also be attracted to him, perhaps by virtue of his status and power. Better just to avoid temptation in the first place. Not a policy for everyone, of course, but as a policy for him personally, it's fine (if quaint).

2. An ass-covering policy designed to avoid any allegations of sexual impropriety, which could be devastating for a religious conservative politician.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 12:10:45 PM
Quote from: Camerus on April 01, 2017, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

I don't see it that way.  I see it more from the following 2 perspectives:

1. An admission that he is a fallible man attracted to women, some of whom may also be attracted to him, perhaps by virtue of his status and power. Better just to avoid temptation in the first place. Not a policy for everyone, of course, but as a policy for him personally, it's fine (if quaint).

2. An ass-covering policy designed to avoid any allegations of sexual impropriety, which could be devastating for a religious conservative politician.

How do you see other perspectives like when he passed the most draconian anti-women's health agenda in the country when he was Governor of Indiana?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on April 01, 2017, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 12:10:45 PM
Quote from: Camerus on April 01, 2017, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

I don't see it that way.  I see it more from the following 2 perspectives:

1. An admission that he is a fallible man attracted to women, some of whom may also be attracted to him, perhaps by virtue of his status and power. Better just to avoid temptation in the first place. Not a policy for everyone, of course, but as a policy for him personally, it's fine (if quaint).

2. An ass-covering policy designed to avoid any allegations of sexual impropriety, which could be devastating for a religious conservative politician.

How do you see other perspectives like when he passed the most draconian anti-women's health agenda in the country when he was Governor of Indiana?

By not necessarily equating pro-life policies with misogyny.   ;)

Though I admit I'm not super familiar with his tenure as governor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 01, 2017, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 12:10:45 PM
Quote from: Camerus on April 01, 2017, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

I don't see it that way.  I see it more from the following 2 perspectives:

1. An admission that he is a fallible man attracted to women, some of whom may also be attracted to him, perhaps by virtue of his status and power. Better just to avoid temptation in the first place. Not a policy for everyone, of course, but as a policy for him personally, it's fine (if quaint).

2. An ass-covering policy designed to avoid any allegations of sexual impropriety, which could be devastating for a religious conservative politician.

How do you see other perspectives like when he passed the most draconian anti-women's health agenda in the country when he was Governor of Indiana?

Yeah, if you took his stance on being alone with woman in isolation, it is quaint but probably pretty harmless, as long as he was careful to not let it be a disadvantage for women business wise (ie, don't have meals alone where you discuss anything with men either).

In the context of his overall views on women, gender issues, and health care for women - it is part and parcel with a incredibly dated and misogynistic world view.

But, on the other hand, he is proud to be the VP and defender of a man who thinks he should grab women's pussies when he is alone with them. So there you go.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 12:37:07 PM
Quote from: Camerus on April 01, 2017, 12:19:49 PM
By not necessarily equating pro-life policies with misogyny.   ;)

Shame they are necessarily equated, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 12:37:31 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2017, 12:21:32 PM
Yeah, if you took his stance on being alone with woman in isolation, it is quaint but probably pretty harmless, as long as he was careful to not let it be a disadvantage for women business wise (ie, don't have meals alone where you discuss anything with men either).

In the context of his overall views on women, gender issues, and health care for women - it is part and parcel with a incredibly dated and misogynistic world view.

But, on the other hand, he is proud to be the VP and defender of a man who thinks he should grab women's pussies when he is alone with them. So there you go.

But headscarves, Jeff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 10:01:18 AM
Women are nothing more than filthy cunty useless cumdumpsters that do nothing but make them look at their tits and toe cleavage, and therefore do not have the right to sit alone with the Governor of Indiana/Vice President of the United States to discuss policy.  You do, though.


:lol:  Never change Seedy.  Your RAGE!!! keeps this place hoppin'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 12:45:21 PM
Quote from: Camerus on April 01, 2017, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 01, 2017, 07:44:11 AM
I say fuck him. Makes it seem like women are just brimming with sinful desires that would overpower him if he were alone with them.

I don't see it that way.  I see it more from the following 2 perspectives:

1. An admission that he is a fallible man attracted to women, some of whom may also be attracted to him, perhaps by virtue of his status and power. Better just to avoid temptation in the first place. Not a policy for everyone, of course, but as a policy for him personally, it's fine (if quaint).

2. An ass-covering policy designed to avoid any allegations of sexual impropriety, which could be devastating for a religious conservative politician.

You leave out the (likelier, IMO) alternative:  (3) his wife told him that, if she ever heard of him being alone with another woman, she'd cut his balls off while he slept.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 12:48:58 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 12:10:45 PM
How do you see other perspectives like when he passed the most draconian anti-women's health agenda in the country when he was Governor of Indiana?

That's the kind of thing you should be RAGE!!!! about.  Pence's dinner or drinking policies are petty shit compared to his politics and policies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 12:53:46 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2017, 12:21:32 PM
But, on the other hand, he is proud to be the VP and defender of a man who thinks he should grab women's pussies when he is alone with them. So there you go.

See, it creates a balanced ticket:  one misogynist who is afraid that he might act like an asshole if left alone with women balanced by another misogynist who is proud that he acts like an asshole if left alone with women.  Yin and Yang and stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 12:48:58 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 01, 2017, 12:10:45 PM
How do you see other perspectives like when he passed the most draconian anti-women's health agenda in the country when he was Governor of Indiana?

That's the kind of thing you should be RAGE!!!! about.  Pence's dinner or drinking policies are petty shit compared to his politics and policies.

However it is, as Brahms would say, variations on a theme.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 01, 2017, 03:56:29 PM
You guys are so predictable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 01, 2017, 04:00:12 PM
Yes, I would think you would get by now that we don't stand for sexism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 01, 2017, 04:19:40 PM
Pence is a goofus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2017, 05:03:07 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 01, 2017, 03:56:29 PM
You guys are so predictable.

Yeah it is probably no surprise somebody with Pence's mindset doesn't sit well with me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 01, 2017, 06:37:36 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 01, 2017, 03:56:29 PM
You guys are so predictable.

Not as predictable as some.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on April 01, 2017, 07:37:02 PM
Women are devices built by our lord Jesus Christ for our entertainment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on April 01, 2017, 09:39:48 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8X9gdKVYAAqbLs.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on April 01, 2017, 09:40:56 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8QnbcJWAAA3Zb1.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on April 04, 2017, 03:06:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/E2nJgnT.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on April 04, 2017, 03:26:50 PM
makes perfect sense. it's in pornhubs financial self-interest to protect user data (so that users use their site), while its in politicians financial self-interest to pass the law for sweet sweet donor money.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 08, 2017, 09:02:34 PM
So I called some asshole out for being a fucking Nazi, and he responded by saying "You're Jewish aren't you".  I responded by telling him to kiss (((my))) ass.  So now I'm thinking of investing in a fire arm.  Missouri recently changed the guns laws in this state so I can basically shoot anyone for any reason, so I'm good on that front.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on April 08, 2017, 09:16:18 PM
Should have told him to "Uncuck yourself, Manlet". They like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2017, 09:45:27 AM
I thought you couldn't leave the house, Raz.  What, are you yelling through the screen door now, or do you have to force open a window?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 09, 2017, 03:14:21 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2017, 09:45:27 AM
I thought you couldn't leave the house, Raz.  What, are you yelling through the screen door now, or do you have to force open a window?

I've gotten over that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 09, 2017, 03:17:31 PM
I would consult a lawyer before trying the "He called me Jewish!" defense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 09, 2017, 05:23:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 09, 2017, 03:17:31 PM
I would consult a lawyer before trying the "He called me Jewish!" defense.

I took your advice and shot Mr. Rothstein an email.  His response: "Kill the motherfucker".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2017, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2017, 03:14:21 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2017, 09:45:27 AM
I thought you couldn't leave the house, Raz.  What, are you yelling through the screen door now, or do you have to force open a window?

I've gotten over that.

I thought it wasn't a voluntary thingy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 09, 2017, 08:02:52 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2017, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2017, 03:14:21 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2017, 09:45:27 AM
I thought you couldn't leave the house, Raz.  What, are you yelling through the screen door now, or do you have to force open a window?

I've gotten over that.

I thought it wasn't a voluntary thingy.

It took several years of therapy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 10, 2017, 12:10:55 AM
Still it might not be a good idea to prepare to shoot a guy who yelled at you. Especially if it was because of politics
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 19, 2017, 12:16:46 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/10176062_10150384671764964_2121557525639908342_n.jpg?oh=c3cc5417669d9336eb0a2456e103e03c&oe=594E6075)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2017, 12:21:11 PM
Now that is definitely a new angle on fitsperation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 19, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
The fuck is that supposed to mean, anyway? 
Every day I don't get my shit pushed in from anal rape THEY DO

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2017, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 19, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
The fuck is that supposed to mean, anyway? 
Every day I don't get my shit pushed in from anal rape THEY DO



The criminals are getting buff and then they are going to like...um...be scary I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 20, 2017, 05:50:55 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18010444_243436722796609_6839654705508133428_n.jpg?oh=12090d72ebd8f5f5bf3277fb60b502ad&oe=594E1B49)

Too bad for the spelling.:(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 20, 2017, 09:12:04 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 19, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
The fuck is that supposed to mean, anyway? 
Every day I don't get my shit pushed in from anal rape THEY DO

It is terrifying to think of how much stronger their sphincters are than yours! 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 20, 2017, 12:26:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 20, 2017, 09:12:04 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 19, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
The fuck is that supposed to mean, anyway? 
Every day I don't get my shit pushed in from anal rape THEY DO

It is terrifying to think of how much stronger their sphincters are than yours!

Ed can make balloon animals with his.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on April 20, 2017, 08:34:27 PM
New movie!

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FeiEeTmE.jpg&hash=38651a069fb5301efa8a001eeadc2424de52100b)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on April 20, 2017, 10:30:50 PM
Who's the dude who isn't Hernandez?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on April 21, 2017, 01:06:30 AM
That recent Facebook spree-killer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on April 21, 2017, 02:20:12 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 21, 2017, 01:06:30 AM
That recent Facebook spree-killer.

How do you kill on Facebook, asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on April 22, 2017, 10:28:37 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2Fkspl1.jpg&hash=5434762729eb1cc11aa9bec4e79d34a6f44368fd)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 22, 2017, 10:53:45 AM
 :lol: Shove that one up your sister's Facebook, Syt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 24, 2017, 01:49:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18118977_447685522243110_4917835530970492149_n.jpg?oh=9645836134f1b92d979080d08d44a480&oe=598E1616)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 26, 2017, 12:08:15 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17202817_816770035139116_1858908512257363479_n.jpg?oh=87d0b37d673678c29a66f953638774e3&oe=59754471)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 26, 2017, 12:10:02 AM
Amen!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 26, 2017, 06:20:11 AM
http://musingsofapoeticsoul.co/article/high-school-in-1970-vs-2015-this-is-so-accurate-it-hurts/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=Mikael&utm_medium=ultimate80s

QuoteScenario 1: Jack goes quail hunting before school and then pulls into the school parking lot with his shotgun in his truck's gun rack.

1970 — Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack...

2015 — School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.


Scenario 2: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.

1970 — Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.

2015 — Police called and SWAT team arrives they arrest both Johnny and Mark. They are both charged with assault and both expelled even though Johnny started it.


Scenario 3: Jeffrey will not be still in class, he disrupts other students.

1970 — Jeffrey sent to the Principal's office and given a good shouting by the Principal. He then returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2015 — Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin He becomes a zombie. He is then tested for ADD... The school gets extra money from the state because Jeffrey has a disability.


Scenario 4: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives screams at him.

1970 — Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college and becomes a successful businessman.

2015 — Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. The state psychologist is told by Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison... Billy's mom has an affair with the psychologist.


Scenario 5: Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.

1970 — Mark shares his aspirin with the Principal out on the smoking dock..

2015 — The police are called and Mark is expelled from school for drug violations... His car is then searched for drugs and weapons.


Scenario 6: Pedro fails high school English.

1970 — Pedro goes to summer school, passes English and goes to college.

2015 — Pedro's cause is taken up by the state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist... ACLU files class action lawsuit against the state school system and Pedro's English teacher... English is then banned from core curriculum... Pedro is given his diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.


Scenario 7: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the Fourth of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up a red ant bed.

1970 — Ants die.

2015 — ATF, Homeland Security, and the FBI are all called. Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism... The FBI investigates his parents —and all siblings are removed from their home and all computers are confiscated. Johnny's dad is placed on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.


Scenario 8: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.

1970 — In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.

2015 — Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 26, 2017, 06:22:29 AM
I always love those "kids then vs. kids today" posts - well, who's setting the rules for the kids today, eh? Very often the kids from back then, no?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 26, 2017, 06:49:02 AM
I think they should just go back to 1970 then. Good luck to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 26, 2017, 07:23:56 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 26, 2017, 06:49:02 AM
I think they should just go back to 1970 then. Good luck to them.

Isn't voting Trump the next best thing?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 26, 2017, 07:25:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2017, 07:23:56 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 26, 2017, 06:49:02 AM
I think they should just go back to 1970 then. Good luck to them.

Isn't voting Trump the next best thing?

Nah, as that's probably pre-70s. Somewhere 1930s-50s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 26, 2017, 07:27:21 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2017, 06:22:29 AM
I always love those "kids then vs. kids today" posts - well, who's setting the rules for the kids today, eh? Very often the kids from back then, no?

Also, I do think this is a very good point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 26, 2017, 07:37:02 AM
I pissed off a relative at the last yearly family dinner saying that.

They were all doing the "bitch about kids these days/millenials". He was specifically bitching about his daughter.

I said that it "kids these days" were lazy and entitled, it must be our fault, since we raised them. I wasn't calling out HIM in particular, but of course...

Anyway, he didn't seem to care for the implication. And it never seemed to have occurred to him that whatever his daughter was, or was not, was either do to

A) Her nature, which comes from him and his wife, and for which he has no real control, but then, neither does she, or
B) Her environment, which comes primarily from him and his wife, for which he has plenty of control, and his daughter has none.

It's rather ironic that one of the primary bitches about "kids these days" is a lack of willingness to take responsibility....

Glad I don't have to worry about that branch of the family anymore anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on April 26, 2017, 07:49:05 AM
Get off my lawn
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 26, 2017, 07:59:48 AM
Ed you would fit right in with my (soon to be ex-) wifes family, I suspect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 26, 2017, 08:35:34 AM
Adults these days,  :rolleyes:, all they ever do is complain about the latest generation of kids.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on April 26, 2017, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 26, 2017, 08:35:34 AM
Adults these days,  :rolleyes:, all they ever do is complain about the latest generation of kids.

The next generation has been the worst generation since the first generation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 26, 2017, 09:21:40 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 26, 2017, 08:35:34 AM
Adults these days,  :rolleyes: , all they ever do is complain about the latest generation of kids.
Saw a bunch of them complaining about kids the other day.
I went with father see some clients, than he wanted to stop by the shop the guys who transport his lumber are stationned at.
2:00 PM.  4 of them are sitting there talking and smoking.  Complaining that youth these days don't want to work anymore, they expect to make 100$ a day [note: that's for 10-12hrs/day].  The guys are manual workers, but they're all clean as if they were straight out of the shower.  Than the 5th one came, the youngest one, with dirty gloves, as if he was the only one working that day, and rallied them to go transport some lumber.

It could have been a scene from the Sopranos, where the guys are all at the back of the bada-bing chatting about various life problems.

The irony didn't escape me, but none of them seemed to realize it, including my father.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 26, 2017, 09:43:19 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 26, 2017, 07:49:05 AM
Get off my lawn

Tell all your twins to stop holding hands and blocking the hallways all the time, Mengele.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 27, 2017, 10:07:45 AM
"Dad gives screams?"  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on April 27, 2017, 10:19:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 27, 2017, 10:07:45 AM
"Dad gives screams?"  :huh:

:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 27, 2017, 10:22:10 AM
QuoteScenario 4: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives screams at him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on April 27, 2017, 10:31:19 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 27, 2017, 10:22:10 AM
QuoteScenario 4: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor’s car and his Dad gives screams at him.

Education wasn't the best back in the 70's, what with all the fighting, gun ogling, and drug rings apparently going on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on April 27, 2017, 02:32:54 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 26, 2017, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 26, 2017, 08:35:34 AM
Adults these days,  :rolleyes:, all they ever do is complain about the latest generation of kids.

The next generation has been the worst generation since the first generation.

Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 28, 2017, 04:52:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18157932_1600745683299312_225949825480165183_n.png?oh=7f48ed77eede1bb9692befad628f01b1&oe=59871E24)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 28, 2017, 08:32:45 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 28, 2017, 04:52:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18157932_1600745683299312_225949825480165183_n.png?oh=7f48ed77eede1bb9692befad628f01b1&oe=59871E24)

:lol:

Reminds me of the Club Med ad I heard that used the song "Hands Up (Give Me Your Heart)"  for one of its resorts ... at Chichen Itza.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 28, 2017, 02:21:46 PM
So there is this game that popped up on Facebook...today? Maybe yesterday? Where people list 10 bands they claim they have seen live but one of them is a lie and then their bored friends with too much time on their hands try to guess which is the lie.

I am just amazed at how fast this got spoofed and then the spoof gets spoofed and quickly the whole thing becomes part of hundreds of inside jokes that nobody who was not on Facebook in the past 48 hours would understand. Crazy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 28, 2017, 04:25:03 PM
I really hope my cousin didn't go to see Ratt. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 28, 2017, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 28, 2017, 02:21:46 PM
who was not on Facebook in the past 48 hours.

Three elderly North Koreans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 28, 2017, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 28, 2017, 04:25:03 PM
I really hope my cousin didn't go to see Ratt.

When?  1986?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 12:29:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on April 28, 2017, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 28, 2017, 02:21:46 PM
who was not on Facebook in the past 48 hours.

Three elderly North Koreans.

And me.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on April 29, 2017, 07:43:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 28, 2017, 02:21:46 PM
So there is this game that popped up on Facebook...today? Maybe yesterday? Where people list 10 bands they claim they have seen live but one of them is a lie and then their bored friends with too much time on their hands try to guess which is the lie.

I am just amazed at how fast this got spoofed and then the spoof gets spoofed and quickly the whole thing becomes part of hundreds of inside jokes that nobody who was not on Facebook in the past 48 hours would understand. Crazy.

I was on fb and it passed me by. Unfollowing 90% of my contacts has a very good decision.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on April 29, 2017, 08:39:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 28, 2017, 02:21:46 PM
So there is this game that popped up on Facebook...today? Maybe yesterday? Where people list 10 bands they claim they have seen live but one of them is a lie and then their bored friends with too much time on their hands try to guess which is the lie.

I am just amazed at how fast this got spoofed and then the spoof gets spoofed and quickly the whole thing becomes part of hundreds of inside jokes that nobody who was not on Facebook in the past 48 hours would understand. Crazy.

I had heard about this because CNN ran an... :unsure: article?... :unsure: editorial?... :unsure: inane ramblings of a college girl? I'm not really sure but they ran something on this crucial issue:  10 thoughts about the '10 bands' Facebook meme, and one of them is just 'Why?' (http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/27/us/10-bands-facebook-meme-trnd/)

I haven't followed CNN.com as closely as I did before the election; but I see their standards (which were not exactly high in the first place) have actually declined in Trump's America.  How many articles do you really need to run about Saturday Night Live?


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 08:52:08 AM
Yes
Rich Mullins
Three Dog Night
Stabbing Westward
Pearl Jam
Presidents of the United States of America
DC Talk
Carmen

Stopped at eight because I can't remember any more.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 29, 2017, 09:58:52 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 28, 2017, 04:25:03 PM
I really hope my cousin didn't go to see Ratt.

Mötley Crüe (king of the genre?), Cinderella, Poison, Winger, L.A Guns, Whitesnake, Warrant, Dokken or even early Pantera are ok I guess for the genre.  :D
Could be worse, I mean it could be Bon Jovi.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 10:02:39 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 29, 2017, 09:58:52 AM
Mötley Crüe (king of the genre?)

Guns N Roses.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 10:02:39 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 29, 2017, 09:58:52 AM
Mötley Crüe (king of the genre?)

Guns N Roses.

Guns N Roses was most definitely not hair metal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on April 29, 2017, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 10:02:39 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 29, 2017, 09:58:52 AM
Mötley Crüe (king of the genre?)

Guns N Roses.

Guns N Roses was most definitely not hair metal.

They were a hair band, though.  Most of the bands in Duque de Braganca's post weren't metal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 12:52:04 PM
Quote from: dps on April 29, 2017, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 10:09:03 AM
Guns N Roses was most definitely not hair metal.

They were a hair band, though. 

No, no they weren't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 29, 2017, 12:59:34 PM
CdM is right. Liking Guns N Roses wasn't completely gay at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 01:04:11 PM
The fuck do you know about music, you're a goddamn Scandinavian.  It's all ABBA and Shitgoat up there.  Go sell some ball bearings to Nazis or something, assfuck.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 29, 2017, 01:07:36 PM
It saddens me that you're pushing away people who are trying to help you. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 01:08:24 PM
LIES
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 29, 2017, 01:19:38 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 28, 2017, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 28, 2017, 04:25:03 PM
I really hope my cousin didn't go to see Ratt.

When?  1986?

Anytime. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 29, 2017, 03:00:21 PM
Guys I was mostly just amazed something could become popular, suffer push back, and quickly become an inside joke in just a few hours than the stupid facebook game itself :P

I mean geez it took Disco years to do that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 29, 2017, 04:35:44 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 01:04:11 PM
The fuck do you know about music, you're a goddamn Scandinavian.  It's all ABBA and Shitgoat up there.  Go sell some ball bearings to Nazis or something, assfuck.
Any country that has this knows its music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 29, 2017, 04:56:29 PM
:bleeding:

How does the singer manage to scream like that for a whole concert?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 29, 2017, 05:06:05 PM
Quote from: dps on April 29, 2017, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 10:02:39 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 29, 2017, 09:58:52 AM
Mötley Crüe (king of the genre?)

Guns N Roses.

Guns N Roses was most definitely not hair metal.

They were a hair band, though.  Most of the bands in Duque de Braganca's post weren't metal.

:blink:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 08:04:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 29, 2017, 04:35:44 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 01:04:11 PM
The fuck do you know about music, you're a goddamn Scandinavian.  It's all ABBA and Shitgoat up there.  Go sell some ball bearings to Nazis or something, assfuck.
Any country that has this knows its music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc

I'd rather listen to ABBA. :uffda:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 29, 2017, 08:36:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 12:52:04 PM
Quote from: dps on April 29, 2017, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 10:09:03 AM
Guns N Roses was most definitely not hair metal.

They were a hair band, though. 

No, no they weren't.

Guns N Roses a hair band?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 08:48:43 PM
Clearly they were the best hair metal band which is why people don't like to call them one.

You'd also have to rule out Def Leppard to call motley crue the top band.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 29, 2017, 08:49:35 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 29, 2017, 08:36:56 PM
Guns N Roses a hair band?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

But they had hair, Berkut.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 29, 2017, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 08:48:43 PM
Clearly they were the best hair metal band which is why people don't like to call them one.

You'd also have to rule out Def Leppard to call motley crue the top band.

I don't even know how to respond to someone who can mention Def Leppard and GnR in the same context as if that was a reasonable comparison on any level.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on April 29, 2017, 08:55:38 PM
Somebody is bringing on the heartbreak.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on April 30, 2017, 12:59:35 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 08:48:43 PM
Clearly they were the best hair metal band which is why people don't like to call them one.

You'd also have to rule out Def Leppard to call motley crue the top band.

Wat? 

I am definitely biased, so there is a chance that Motley Crue is not the best in whatever category we are talking about, but to compare them to Def Leppard is laughable no matter what you are talking about.  Unless it is best bands with 1 armed drummers.  I'll give you that.

Def Leppard was a cute band with some very commercially successful stuff but Motley Crue was better in every sense of the word when it comes to '80s hair/metal bands.  If it is about individual songs you would need to count pretty high to get to the first Def Leppard song on the list; every Crue album from Too Fast for Love to Dr. Feelgood was better than anything DL put out; the Crue was (for good or bad) more of everything that scene and era was about.

I never saw Def Leppard live but from what I have heard I would take a Crue show (I've seen then at least 5 times but I am getting old so it may be more) over them without even hesitating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on April 30, 2017, 01:02:32 AM
Dammit now instead of going to bed I'm stuck listening to Motley Crue's collected works.  :punk:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on April 30, 2017, 01:06:52 AM
And fuck you to who ever disparaged Ratt.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 30, 2017, 03:20:24 AM
Quote from: sbr on April 30, 2017, 12:59:35 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 29, 2017, 08:48:43 PM
Clearly they were the best hair metal band which is why people don't like to call them one.

You'd also have to rule out Def Leppard to call motley crue the top band.

Wat? 

I am definitely biased, so there is a chance that Motley Crue is not the best in whatever category we are talking about, but to compare them to Def Leppard is laughable no matter what you are talking about.  Unless it is best bands with 1 armed drummers.  I'll give you that.

Def Leppard was a cute band with some very commercially successful stuff but Motley Crue was better in every sense of the word when it comes to '80s hair/metal bands.  If it is about individual songs you would need to count pretty high to get to the first Def Leppard song on the list; every Crue album from Too Fast for Love to Dr. Feelgood was better than anything DL put out; the Crue was (for good or bad) more of everything that scene and era was about.

I never saw Def Leppard live but from what I have heard I would take a Crue show (I've seen then at least 5 times but I am getting old so it may be more) over them without even hesitating.

Def Leppard was pretty good from Pyromania and on, but originality wasn't their strongest point.

Motley Crue was good and managed to differentiate some of their album.

I don't know wich one I'd rate the best.  I've seen Crue in show, Tomy Leed is certainly a showman, but the others were your run of the mill hairband.  Better than Bon Jovi live, much, much worst than Metallica (best band I've seen on show despite Rammstein's technical superiority).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 30, 2017, 03:21:18 AM
Quote from: sbr on April 30, 2017, 01:06:52 AM
And fuck you to who ever disparaged Ratt.  :mad:
chill man :P  Listen to some boring, run of the mill hair metal and relax:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLS_W_2eyzY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 30, 2017, 05:04:30 AM
Can we at least agree that GNR was better than every band Duque mentioned?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on April 30, 2017, 06:25:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 29, 2017, 03:00:21 PM
Guys I was mostly just amazed something could become popular, suffer push back, and quickly become an inside joke in just a few hours than the stupid facebook game itself :P

I mean geez it took Disco years to do that.

And now we're discussing Mötley Crüe.  Thanks a lot Valmy.   :mad:

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on April 30, 2017, 06:46:01 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 30, 2017, 05:04:30 AM
Can we at least agree that GNR was better than every band Duque mentioned?

Yeah, easily, at least at their best.  That's why people are objecting to me classifying them as a hair band--they were just so much better than the other late 80s/early 90s hair bands.  They were what those other bands wanted to be.



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 30, 2017, 07:14:20 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 30, 2017, 05:04:30 AM
Can we at least agree that GNR was better than every band Duque mentioned?

Depends if we take into account the current state of Guns 'N Roses.  :P
Despite taking pride in decadence, Mötley Crüe has not degenerated to such a low point yet.  :D

We are are getting into metal semantics but I view Def Leppard, AOR (album-oriented rock) or arena rock describes them better than glam/hair metal. Some glam influences? Sure, it was the '80s after all.
Def Leppard was also seen as part of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal, famous for Iron Maiden or Judas Priest, so make of that what you will.
Guns 'N Roses? Hard rock, close to heavy metal but not exactly the same. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 30, 2017, 10:47:54 AM
Def was heavier in their first albums, I think.  But not that good compared to other metal bands.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 30, 2017, 11:07:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 30, 2017, 07:14:20 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 30, 2017, 05:04:30 AM
Can we at least agree that GNR was better than every band Duque mentioned?

Depends if we take into account the current state of Guns 'N Roses.  :P
Despite taking pride in decadence, Mötley Crüe has not degenerated to such a low point yet.  :D

Were are getting into metal semantics but I view Def Leppard, AOR (album-oriented rock) or arena rock describes them better than glam/hair metal. Some glam influences? Sure, it was the '80s after all.
Def Leppard was also seen as part of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal, famous for Iron Maiden or Judas Priest, so make of that what you will.
Guns 'N Roses? Hard rock, close to heavy metal but not exactly the same. :P

Yeah, I'd have put them in NWOBM, if only for the timing and they were sort of that at the start. But they did hedge into AOR after a while.

For what it's worth I think Saxon are the true, best embodiment of that movement/genre.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2017, 11:14:51 AM
In 1983, it was Def Leppard's Pyromania that kept hard rock at the top of the MTV rotation, when it was drowning in Michael Jacksonian squalor; they were one of the hard rock bands that intentionally edged itself into MTV.  They weren't showing a whole lot of Dio or Ozzy, you know.

I despised Def Leppard's subsequent bullshit--particularly the album that never ended, Hysteria--but the Pyromania album was great, and perfect for 1983.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 30, 2017, 11:19:05 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 30, 2017, 11:07:23 AM


Yeah, I'd have put them in NWOBM, if only for the timing and they were sort of that at the start. But they didn't hedge into AOR after a while.

Exactly, the NWOBHM started before the glam metal era, so by the latter era, they were mostly known for AOR.

Quote
For what it's worth I think Saxon are the true, best embodiment of that movement/genre.  :bowler:

A matter of taste, but that's fine by me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 30, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2017, 11:14:51 AM
In 1983, it was Def Leppard's Pyromania that kept hard rock at the top of the MTV rotation, when it was drowning in Michael Jacksonian squalor; they were one of the hard rock bands that intentionally edged itself into MTV.  They weren't showing a whole lot of Dio or Ozzy, you know.

I despised Def Leppard's subsequent bullshit--particularly the album that never ended, Hysteria--but the Pyromania album was great, and perfect for 1983.

Yeah, I wasn't dissing them, that album was great for what is was and as you say it's time. But I think some of the other albums from the era have stood the test of time better.

Incidentally, shouldn't we have some for of poll for bands/videos that appeared on MTV, to mark the passing of that golden era and explain to the younguns here what it was about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 30, 2017, 11:26:50 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 30, 2017, 07:14:20 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 30, 2017, 05:04:30 AM
Can we at least agree that GNR was better than every band Duque mentioned?

Depends if we take into account the current state of Guns 'N Roses.  :P
Despite taking pride in decadence, Mötley Crüe has not degenerated to such a low point yet.  :D

I evaluate any band on their best work, basically.

That makes sense to me, since I just don't listen to their crap anyway.

So if GnR put out a bunch of sclock later, or if they such in their reunion, it doesn't really matter to me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on April 30, 2017, 11:38:54 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/18199304_973784269425139_583403098163695112_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=e4d57665a20dd18fd0d30040eab06147&oe=597F90ED)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 30, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
Incidentally, shouldn't we have some for of poll for bands/videos that appeared on MTV, to mark the passing of that golden era and explain to the younguns here what it was about?

No.  Fuck young people.  It would just bounce off their autism. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 30, 2017, 12:17:14 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 30, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2017, 11:14:51 AM
In 1983, it was Def Leppard's Pyromania that kept hard rock at the top of the MTV rotation, when it was drowning in Michael Jacksonian squalor; they were one of the hard rock bands that intentionally edged itself into MTV.  They weren't showing a whole lot of Dio or Ozzy, you know.

I despised Def Leppard's subsequent bullshit--particularly the album that never ended, Hysteria--but the Pyromania album was great, and perfect for 1983.

Yeah, I wasn't dissing them, that album was great for what is was and as you say it's time. But I think some of the other albums from the era have stood the test of time better.

Incidentally, shouldn't we have some for of poll for bands/videos that appeared on MTV, to mark the passing of that golden era and explain to the younguns here what it was about?

Who here would we be explaining it to?  Do we even have people here under 30?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 30, 2017, 12:24:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2017, 12:17:14 PM
Do we even have people here under 30?
One or two, maybe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 30, 2017, 01:03:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2017, 12:17:14 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 30, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2017, 11:14:51 AM
In 1983, it was Def Leppard's Pyromania that kept hard rock at the top of the MTV rotation, when it was drowning in Michael Jacksonian squalor; they were one of the hard rock bands that intentionally edged itself into MTV.  They weren't showing a whole lot of Dio or Ozzy, you know.

I despised Def Leppard's subsequent bullshit--particularly the album that never ended, Hysteria--but the Pyromania album was great, and perfect for 1983.

Yeah, I wasn't dissing them, that album was great for what is was and as you say it's time. But I think some of the other albums from the era have stood the test of time better.

Incidentally, shouldn't we have some for of poll for bands/videos that appeared on MTV, to mark the passing of that golden era and explain to the younguns here what it was about?

Who here would we be explaining it to?  Do we even have people here under 30?

Tyr would make a good stand-in.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 30, 2017, 01:04:48 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18118572_751354511705149_2677695456053692349_n.jpg?oh=c1fef1ce47c0a89a39837d9c6cc39db1&oe=597AF03E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 30, 2017, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 30, 2017, 11:26:50 AM
I evaluate any band on their best work, basically.

That makes sense to me, since I just don't listen to their crap anyway.

So if GnR put out a bunch of sclock later, or if they such in their reunion, it doesn't really matter to me.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 30, 2017, 02:22:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 30, 2017, 01:04:48 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18118572_751354511705149_2677695456053692349_n.jpg?oh=c1fef1ce47c0a89a39837d9c6cc39db1&oe=597AF03E)
Is that Clayton Bigsby?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 30, 2017, 02:30:33 PM
Why would that make my head explode?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 30, 2017, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 30, 2017, 02:30:33 PM
Why would that make my head explode?

Because you are liberal.  Duh!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 30, 2017, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 30, 2017, 02:30:33 PM
Why would that make my head explode?

Seeing a black guy bothers conservatives, so they assume it bothers liberals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 03, 2017, 01:59:30 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/18222074_1708219049479194_2145512614763447500_n.jpg?oh=793738af7f14ac08dea3450ca69a1521&oe=59C05265)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 03, 2017, 06:55:05 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 15, 2017, 08:08:22 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_58CoxV0AA8TgT.jpg:small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 15, 2017, 11:07:53 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 30, 2017, 11:26:50 AM
I evaluate any band on their best work, basically.
So, you like Europe?  Los del Rio? A-ha? Tony Basil?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 15, 2017, 11:08:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 15, 2017, 08:08:22 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_58CoxV0AA8TgT.jpg:small)
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 16, 2017, 04:55:33 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 15, 2017, 11:07:53 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 30, 2017, 11:26:50 AM
I evaluate any band on their best work, basically.
So, you like Europe?  Los del Rio? A-ha? Tony Basil?

I'm not sure if you're being harsh to Europe and Aha or you actually like Los del Rio.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2017, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2017, 11:14:51 AM
In 1983, it was Def Leppard's Pyromania that kept hard rock at the top of the MTV rotation, when it was drowning in Michael Jacksonian squalor; they were one of the hard rock bands that intentionally edged itself into MTV..

You've got it backwards.  MTV has never hostile to hard rock.  Bringing on the Heartbreak was in heavy rotation from the very beginning.
It was Michael Jackson who had to break through the notorious MTV color line.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 16, 2017, 12:30:26 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2017, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2017, 11:14:51 AM
In 1983, it was Def Leppard's Pyromania that kept hard rock at the top of the MTV rotation, when it was drowning in Michael Jacksonian squalor; they were one of the hard rock bands that intentionally edged itself into MTV..

You've got it backwards.  MTV has never hostile to hard rock.  Bringing on the Heartbreak was in heavy rotation from the very beginning.
It was Michael Jackson who had to break through the notorious MTV color line.

I wasn't arguing whether they were hostile or not, my argument was that the mantle of hard rock was carried by more traditional non-hair bands in the early years, well before Crüe.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 16, 2017, 01:28:14 PM
When I watched MTV I saw nothing but Motels and Tom Petty videos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 16, 2017, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 16, 2017, 04:55:33 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 15, 2017, 11:07:53 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 30, 2017, 11:26:50 AM
I evaluate any band on their best work, basically.
So, you like Europe?  Los del Rio? A-ha? Tony Basil?

I'm not sure if you're being harsh to Europe and Aha or you actually like Los del Rio.  :hmm:
I googled one "hit wonder" and this is what I got, so presumably, they did something good at some point :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on May 16, 2017, 04:36:13 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 16, 2017, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 16, 2017, 04:55:33 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 15, 2017, 11:07:53 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 30, 2017, 11:26:50 AM
I evaluate any band on their best work, basically.
So, you like Europe?  Los del Rio? A-ha? Tony Basil?

I'm not sure if you're being harsh to Europe and Aha or you actually like Los del Rio.  :hmm:
I googled one "hit wonder" and this is what I got, so presumably, they did something good at some point :D

Ah, so you went with a false assumption that popularity somehow equates to quality.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 16, 2017, 07:02:33 PM
I have trouble believing a North American over 30 is unfamiliar with Macarena.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 17, 2017, 02:01:04 PM
Over 30 what? IQ? Stone?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 17, 2017, 03:45:17 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 17, 2017, 02:01:04 PM
Over 30 what? IQ? Stone?

Post-count on languish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2017, 01:09:32 AM
It's been a while.
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18342800_793771564124929_3069974042025293304_n.jpg?oh=63fd647148ea406f7926fb74a22b8b82&oe=59B807F5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2017, 09:31:09 AM
Trump would promise to re-negotiate trade deals to protect grim reaper jobs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on May 19, 2017, 09:35:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2017, 09:31:09 AM
Trump would promise to re-negotiate trade deals to protect grim reaper jobs.

Nah, he is doing that through health care reform.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 19, 2017, 09:40:32 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 19, 2017, 09:35:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2017, 09:31:09 AM
Trump would promise to re-negotiate trade deals to protect grim reaper jobs.

Nah, he is doing that through health care reform.  :P

Let's hope he doesn't "trump" his efforts in that direction, with his performance in his Middle East tour.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2017, 09:43:23 AM
By the way I don't get that use of Lumbergh there. Did they just randomly pick a meme? Because I don't see how that works.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2017, 10:16:09 AM
QuoteI Love Trump added a new video: Kids do not bow.Like Page
May 13 at 6:50pm ·
No American kid should be taught to bow to Islam!
Share and Comment if you agree!
Like our page for more #trumplove and #maga.
Let's save our kids!


And
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/18301968_1368532746547293_2635650128091490836_n.png?oh=98db3ce9cc6484b37fb9fc4dcc5d5218&oe=59754DEC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2017, 10:22:30 AM
Republican policies were the ones that put us in the cycle of dangerous debt to begin with. If the Democrats controlled the Congress during the entirety of his Presidency we would have increased taxes, which we need to do, and the deficit would be taken care of. As they did in the early 90s (with Elder Bush's help no less) and temporarily stopped the debt crisis. Instead we have Republicans in there trying to figure out how to lower taxes without lowering spending. A magic trick they have consistently failed to do in the past 30 years.

The Republicans control the entire government at this point so they can prove me wrong by fixing the deficit though. I would be delighted to be so come on Ryan you 'deficit hawk' you.

I wonder what meme your relatives will dig up to justify their failure to do so.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 19, 2017, 10:54:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2017, 10:22:30 AM
Republican policies were the ones that put us in the cycle of dangerous debt to begin with. If the Democrats controlled the Congress during the entirety of his Presidency we would have increased taxes, which we need to do, and the deficit would be taken care of. As they did in the early 90s (with Elder Bush's help no less) and temporarily stopped the debt crisis. Instead we have Republicans in there trying to figure out how to lower taxes without lowering spending. A magic trick they have consistently failed to do in the past 30 years.

The Republicans control the entire government at this point so they can prove me wrong by fixing the deficit though. I would be delighted to be so come on Ryan you 'deficit hawk' you.

I wonder what meme your relatives will dig up to justify their failure to do so.

Don't be ridiculous. Even after 12 years of complete Republican control, it would still be Obama's fault.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 21, 2017, 12:50:39 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.lpcdn.ca%2F569x379%2F201705%2F20%2F1406869-caricature-21-mai.jpg&hash=358333d9f7e2559b79031603596596dc098bf6cc)


"Mr Trump, you are not the King's joker, you are the King!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2017, 12:53:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18527581_575164092823601_2217026237890056092_n.jpg?oh=3365b4f97eed23deeb4db0e2713fd095&oe=59A7109A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 10:22:40 AM
Your sister's German, right? Like, real German, not fake "Kiss Me I'm German" bumper sticker German, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 21, 2017, 12:02:33 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/18528069_10156228756575550_3365990596091957905_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=3b14da8a59b169509fbb5680f51a7460&oe=59B35FE9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 21, 2017, 12:03:13 PM
^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on May 21, 2017, 12:34:24 PM
Wonder how many people get that one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 21, 2017, 12:37:32 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/The_Empire_of_Light_MOMA.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on May 21, 2017, 12:58:07 PM
Too subtle.  :ph34r:






(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/69/5b/ae/695bae625ce9bad5a5e191c2d4466466.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: dps on May 21, 2017, 12:34:24 PM
Wonder how many people get that one.

Why would you wonder that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2017, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 10:22:40 AM
Your sister's German, right? Like, real German, not fake "Kiss Me I'm German" bumper sticker German, right?

Yup.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 04:04:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2017, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 10:22:40 AM
Your sister's German, right? Like, real German, not fake "Kiss Me I'm German" bumper sticker German, right?

Yup.

Hilarious.  Acts like she's fucking from here.  Even the douchebag Canadians here aren't that obnoxious.  Close, but not quite.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on May 21, 2017, 04:13:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: dps on May 21, 2017, 12:34:24 PM
Wonder how many people get that one.

Why would you wonder that?

'Cause for people our age, it's pretty obvious, but the internet is dominated by people younger than us;  even on this forum, you and I are among the older posters, and that's a pretty old reference as pop culture references go.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 04:32:33 PM
Quote from: dps on May 21, 2017, 04:13:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: dps on May 21, 2017, 12:34:24 PM
Wonder how many people get that one.

Why would you wonder that?

'Cause for people our age, it's pretty obvious, but the internet is dominated by people younger than us;  even on this forum, you and I are among the older posters, and that's a pretty old reference as pop culture references go.

C'mon, man...It's a movie poster of an iconic film that has been so overmeme'd out of its ass, it's its own meme.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f9/a1/4c/f9a14c233e83adeb2162c5b0854bd150.jpg)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.deviantart.net%2F5463%2Fi%2F2013%2F133%2F4%2F4%2Fthe_confectionist_poster__exorcist___wonka_mashup__by_rabittooth-d4voyxt.jpg&hash=7d8336ffe3ca8a2478ca183a570e2a69400b8199)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on May 21, 2017, 04:46:35 PM
Great, I just had to listen to Tubular Bells because of this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 21, 2017, 05:29:41 PM
I only knew it because I'm a nerd who's played lots of movie poster quizzes on sporcle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on May 21, 2017, 08:21:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 04:04:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2017, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 10:22:40 AM
Your sister's German, right? Like, real German, not fake "Kiss Me I'm German" bumper sticker German, right?

Yup.

Hilarious.  Acts like she's fucking from here.  Even the douchebag Canadians here aren't that obnoxious.  Close, but not quite.

MEIN FOOD STAMPS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 22, 2017, 02:47:37 AM
Quote[Your Name] means 'Larger than Life' and is derived frmo 'coprolalia' which was used in ancient Latin writings.

Besides "coprolalia" being nowhere close to my sister's name, I'm pretty sure she doesn't know what that word means. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 22, 2017, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 04:04:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2017, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2017, 10:22:40 AM
Your sister's German, right? Like, real German, not fake "Kiss Me I'm German" bumper sticker German, right?

Yup.

Hilarious.  Acts like she's fucking from here.  Even the douchebag Canadians here aren't that obnoxious.  Close, but not quite.

When you're only number 2, you try harder. :Canuck:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2017, 10:22:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 22, 2017, 02:47:37 AM
Quote[Your Name] means 'Larger than Life' and is derived frmo 'coprolalia' which was used in ancient Latin writings.

Besides "coprolalia" being nowhere close to my sister's name, I'm pretty sure she doesn't know what that word means. :D

Those things piss me off since they are obvious bullshit to anybody who knows anything about names and language and just serve to make the posters look like idiots.

Um no, Kelly is not Egyptian for fearless woman.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 22, 2017, 10:44:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 22, 2017, 10:22:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 22, 2017, 02:47:37 AM
Quote[Your Name] means 'Larger than Life' and is derived frmo 'coprolalia' which was used in ancient Latin writings.

Besides "coprolalia" being nowhere close to my sister's name, I'm pretty sure she doesn't know what that word means. :D

Those things piss me off since they are obvious bullshit to anybody who knows anything about names and language and just serve to make the posters look like idiots.

Um no, Kelly is not Egyptian for fearless woman.
do people really believe these kind of things?  Seriously?  I thought they posted it for fun, for laughs, not because of any truth.  Well, they give away all their private data on Facebook to some foreign company who won't tell you what it does with it, but aside that, I couldn't believe they were that dumb.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 23, 2017, 12:54:27 AM
Petition signed by my sisters:

https://www.change.org/p/abc-network-save-tim-allen-s-show-last-man-standing?recruiter=510463664&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg

QuoteSave Tim Allen's Show "Last Man Standing"

Despite consistently high rankings, especially considering the time slot in which it is aired, Tim Allen's show "Last Man Standing" has been cancelled by the network on which it is aired, ABC.

Last Man Standing stands out in the sea of network television sitcoms.  It is a show that appeals to a broad swath of Americans who find very few shows that extol the virtues with which they can identify; namely conservative values.

Last Man Standing was not just selling conservative ideals though, as some of the characters in the show are clearly of the liberal persuasion, yet the characters on the show all manage to get along and take care of one another, despite their politically opposed views.  The show is about more than politics though, it is about family.  In fact, politics is only a secondary part of the show, but one in which many Americans can readily identify.

Last Man Standing is one of the only shows on broadcast television, and the only sitcom, that is not constantly shoving liberal ideals down the throats of the viewers.  And sadly, that is likely the real reason the show has been cancelled.

The intent of this petition/boycott is to attempt to get ABC to renew the show.  With that in mind, I will no longer be watching any ABC shows.  I have cancelled the DVR settings for the other ABC shows that I regularly watch.  If you want to help try to save Last Man Standing, I encourage you to do the same.  Even if you are not willing to boycott the network, but still want to save the show, please sign this petition and share it.  If you do plan to boycott ABC, please say so when you sign.  Let them hear our voices.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 23, 2017, 12:56:38 AM
I already don't watch any of ABC's crap, Allen included.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on May 23, 2017, 08:02:58 AM
I watched Last Man standing. The show has run it's course. The kids actresses are getting to old & the stories being told when kids are ~20 years old on tv is not funny.

Just like what happened to Home Improvement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on May 23, 2017, 08:48:00 AM
Probably true.  When the storyline shitcans the kids' future/career potentials in order to keep them at home with mommy/daddy, it might not be sending a great message.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on May 23, 2017, 08:51:01 AM
Home Improvement lasted a long time because they started the kids very young.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on May 23, 2017, 08:56:24 AM
All I know about Last man Standing was the actress that played the middle daughter had nice cans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 23, 2017, 01:16:18 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 23, 2017, 08:51:01 AM
Home Improvement lasted a long time because they started the kids very young.

There was even a video game.  I never watched the show, but based on the video game it presumably involved a man shooting dinosaurs with a nail gun.  I can see why that might be popular.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S82KxXWrtnI
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 23, 2017, 01:22:45 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 23, 2017, 08:51:01 AM
Home Improvement lasted a long time because they started the kids very young.

Every once in a while something comes up that causes me to go into a deadpan and say "I don't think so, Tim" to my oldest son.

He'll never get that joke though. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on May 23, 2017, 01:35:24 PM
Show it to him, it used to be pretty much on all the time on CMT.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 23, 2017, 02:04:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 23, 2017, 12:54:27 AM
Petition signed by my sisters:

Capitalism is good, but only if it gets the result I want.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 24, 2017, 02:11:29 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18527856_10153940070932537_3497503240425061042_n.jpg?oh=7f90d3d8dbea1e6c1a4f3d029ca4072f&oe=59B0F774)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 24, 2017, 03:04:29 AM
The whole "It's just history" bullshit is annoying.  It's not history, it's propaganda.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 24, 2017, 04:24:26 AM
Your sister is off the deep end, Syt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2017, 08:39:06 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 24, 2017, 04:24:26 AM
Your sister is off the deep end, Syt.
Really?  When did you come to that conclusion, exactly?  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 24, 2017, 09:13:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2017, 02:11:29 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18527856_10153940070932537_3497503240425061042_n.jpg?oh=7f90d3d8dbea1e6c1a4f3d029ca4072f&oe=59B0F774)

I am glad she is decisively killing those accusations that Neo-Confederates are racists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on May 24, 2017, 11:15:52 AM
That shit is mild compared to the crap I get.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on May 24, 2017, 08:14:37 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2017, 02:11:29 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18527856_10153940070932537_3497503240425061042_n.jpg?oh=7f90d3d8dbea1e6c1a4f3d029ca4072f&oe=59B0F774)

Holy shit people actually post that on their FB  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 25, 2017, 07:45:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 24, 2017, 09:13:15 AM
I am glad she is decisively killing those accusations that Neo-Confederates are racists.

She is also decisively killing the idea that Neo-Confederates cannot tell the difference between a statue and a bust.  :nerd:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on May 25, 2017, 07:59:08 AM
I guess she got busted.  :cool:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 25, 2017, 08:01:52 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 25, 2017, 07:59:08 AM
I guess she got busted.  :cool:

A statutory offense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 25, 2017, 04:04:16 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18619974_1970614596503918_3213924931195325294_n.jpg?oh=73100d0198db0225d9ec91fc8514f4c6&oe=59BC03BB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 25, 2017, 04:37:11 PM
Funny thing is that most people approving of this poster are quite happy to have Russia involved in the politics of this country.  :hmm: Actually, that's not funny at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 25, 2017, 05:12:32 PM
Act like somebody from Florida? No thanks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 25, 2017, 05:29:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 25, 2017, 05:12:32 PM
Act like somebody from Florida? No thanks.

Florida and Texas ain't much different.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 25, 2017, 08:26:22 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 25, 2017, 05:29:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 25, 2017, 05:12:32 PM
Act like somebody from Florida? No thanks.

Florida and Texas ain't much different.

Now that is just uncalled for.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 25, 2017, 09:08:15 PM
Btw, here's Mitch Landrieu's speech about the removal of statues and monuments of the Confederacy:

QuoteYou see — New Orleans is truly a city of many nations, a melting pot, a bubbling caldron of many cultures. There is no other place quite like it in the world that so eloquently exemplifies the uniquely American motto: e pluribus unum — out of many we are one. But there are also other truths about our city that we must confront. New Orleans was America's largest slave market: a port where hundreds of thousands of souls were bought, sold and shipped up the Mississippi River to lives of forced labor of misery of rape, of torture. America was the place where nearly 4000 of our fellow citizens were lynched, 540 alone in Louisiana; where the courts enshrined 'separate but equal'; where Freedom riders coming to New Orleans were beaten to a bloody pulp. So when people say to me that the monuments in question are history, well what I just described is real history as well, and it is the searing truth.

And it immediately begs the questions, why there are no slave ship monuments, no prominent markers on public land to remember the lynchings or the slave blocks; nothing to remember this long chapter of our lives; the pain, the sacrifice, the shame... all of it happening on the soil of New Orleans. So for those self-appointed defenders of history and the monuments, they are eerily silent on what amounts to this historical malfeasance, a lie by omission. There is a difference between remembrance of history and reverence of it.

It's a good speech.

Full speech here: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/opinion/mitch-landrieus-speech-transcript.html?_r=0
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 26, 2017, 01:34:50 AM
Yeah, really moving speech.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 26, 2017, 02:18:59 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 25, 2017, 09:08:15 PM
Btw, here's Mitch Landrieu's speech about the removal of statues and monuments of the Confederacy:

QuoteYou see — New Orleans is truly a city of many nations, a melting pot, a bubbling caldron of many cultures. There is no other place quite like it in the world that so eloquently exemplifies the uniquely American motto: e pluribus unum — out of many we are one. But there are also other truths about our city that we must confront. New Orleans was America's largest slave market: a port where hundreds of thousands of souls were bought, sold and shipped up the Mississippi River to lives of forced labor of misery of rape, of torture. America was the place where nearly 4000 of our fellow citizens were lynched, 540 alone in Louisiana; where the courts enshrined 'separate but equal'; where Freedom riders coming to New Orleans were beaten to a bloody pulp. So when people say to me that the monuments in question are history, well what I just described is real history as well, and it is the searing truth.

And it immediately begs the questions, why there are no slave ship monuments, no prominent markers on public land to remember the lynchings or the slave blocks; nothing to remember this long chapter of our lives; the pain, the sacrifice, the shame... all of it happening on the soil of New Orleans. So for those self-appointed defenders of history and the monuments, they are eerily silent on what amounts to this historical malfeasance, a lie by omission. There is a difference between remembrance of history and reverence of it.

It's a good speech.

Full speech here: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/opinion/mitch-landrieus-speech-transcript.html?_r=0

My impression is that people who loudly defend Confederacy-related monuments think that the monuments they are defending are celebrating their subjects.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 26, 2017, 02:27:08 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 25, 2017, 09:08:15 PM
Btw, here's Mitch Landrieu's speech about the removal of statues and monuments of the Confederacy:

Facebook to the refute:
(https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18670742_1427006767338523_8059311256961440415_n.jpg?oh=5d647c22fce34100f790947370d83c53&oe=59B836AE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 26, 2017, 02:35:06 AM
I guess the retort, in same vein, would be and only .000000000001% of white people were part of the Confederacy so why you so mad bro?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2017, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 25, 2017, 04:37:11 PM
Funny thing is that most people approving of this poster are quite happy to have Russia involved in the politics of this country.  :hmm: Actually, that's not funny at all.

Nor is it funny that they take up the cause of traitors who levied war against the United States.
Patriotism is all fine and dandy unless then there are liberals to bashed.  Then the country can go F itself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 26, 2017, 09:30:56 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 26, 2017, 02:27:08 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 25, 2017, 09:08:15 PM
Btw, here's Mitch Landrieu's speech about the removal of statues and monuments of the Confederacy:

Facebook to the refute:
(https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18670742_1427006767338523_8059311256961440415_n.jpg?oh=5d647c22fce34100f790947370d83c53&oe=59B836AE)


Wait....as in in the history of the world? I sure hope it is lower than that :P

I don't see anybody blaming the Bulgarians or the Estonians (presuming they count as white, I can never tell who is white) for American slavery so I don't quite get the point of that meme but then memes are supposed to act on emotions and not make sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 26, 2017, 09:32:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 26, 2017, 02:35:06 AM
I guess the retort, in same vein, would be and only .000000000001% of white people were part of the Confederacy so why you so mad bro?

Right?

Anyway it is not the Confederate monuments around the Texas Capitol that I find most annoying. It is the propaganda they have printed on them. If it was just 'hey once Texans died fighting for the Confederacy how about that?' Instead it is most like 'In memory of the heroes who died fighting for freedom against tyranny's jackboot.'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on May 26, 2017, 09:40:06 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 26, 2017, 09:32:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 26, 2017, 02:35:06 AM
I guess the retort, in same vein, would be and only .000000000001% of white people were part of the Confederacy so why you so mad bro?

Right?

Anyway it is not the Confederate monuments around the Texas Capitol that I find most annoying. It is the propaganda they have printed on them. If it was just 'hey once Texans died fighting for the Confederacy how about that?' Instead it is most like 'In memory of the heroes who died fighting for freedom against tyranny's jackboot.'

The amazing part is how the people who think that are not even slightly cognizant of the incredible irony of the statement.

I mean, they aren't even aware of the irony, but reject it - they are completely and entirely nonplussed by the idea that the role of "tyranny's jackboot" might be already taken by the party in that conflict that was fighting to keep owning other human beings as property.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 26, 2017, 09:45:52 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2017, 09:28:13 AM
Nor is it funny that they take up the cause of traitors who levied war against the United States.
Patriotism is all fine and dandy unless then there are liberals to bashed.  Then the country can go F itself.

What is funny isn't that they support the greatest American traitors, it is that they support the greatest American losers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 26, 2017, 11:03:54 AM
What is funny is pies in faces and people falling over.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2017, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 26, 2017, 09:40:06 AM
I mean, they aren't even aware of the irony, but reject it - they are completely and entirely nonplussed by the idea that the role of "tyranny's jackboot" might be already taken by the party in that conflict that was fighting to keep owning other human beings as property.

But Berkut you are forgetting how the tyrant Republicans wanted to destroy freedom by demanding that our trade deals be renegotiated to protect American manufacturing  . . . oh wait never mind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 26, 2017, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 26, 2017, 11:03:54 AM
What is funny is pies in faces and people falling over.

/subscribe
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 26, 2017, 02:12:40 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 26, 2017, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 26, 2017, 11:03:54 AM
What is funny is pies in faces and people falling over.

/subscribe

We can only hope that the current American administration henceforth devotes itself exclusively to this type of "funny".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 26, 2017, 04:11:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 26, 2017, 09:30:56 AM

Wait....as in in the history of the world? I sure hope it is lower than that :P

I don't see anybody blaming the Bulgarians or the Estonians (presuming they count as white, I can never tell who is white) for American slavery so I don't quite get the point of that meme but then memes are supposed to act on emotions and not make sense.

I wonder what the percentage of the world population is descended from someone who owned someone else.  Probably pretty close to all of them I suspect.  The only ones that aren't are probably descended from Australian aborigines or some native Americans.  I imagine that holding slaves was hard for people who didn't have sedentary lifestyles.  Not impossible, I imagine bride stealing still occurred amongst people living in bands, but it would have been difficult.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 26, 2017, 09:52:50 PM
Native Americans had slaves, I'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 26, 2017, 10:57:21 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 26, 2017, 09:52:50 PM
Native Americans had slaves, I'm pretty sure.

You would be correct.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 27, 2017, 12:11:26 AM
I know some did, but did they all?  Did the Inuit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 27, 2017, 12:29:59 AM
Raz is: gettin' Razzy!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 27, 2017, 01:03:52 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2017, 12:11:26 AM
Inuit

Did you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 27, 2017, 02:43:21 AM
:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 27, 2017, 03:16:40 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 27, 2017, 02:43:21 AM
:bleeding:

Embrace the darkness, Beeb.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 27, 2017, 07:34:22 AM
Old family friend of ours, a retired FBI agent who took down Mayor Cianci of Providence is just tearing Trump up on Facebook. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 27, 2017, 11:25:54 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2017, 12:11:26 AM
I know some did, but did they all?  Did the Inuit?
captives from other tribes, more to the south.
It's possible, I haven't researched it.

But it's different than chattel slavery.  I don't think they had a market to trade slaves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 27, 2017, 11:27:57 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 27, 2017, 01:03:52 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2017, 12:11:26 AM
Inuit

Did you?

:lol:  That's even worse than my jokes, man
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on May 28, 2017, 12:03:12 PM
Twitter shared this gif and its brilliant :D

https://twitter.com/goldengateblond/status/868652844513017856
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 28, 2017, 12:40:49 PM
It has some nice metaphorical uses, as well...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 28, 2017, 12:43:35 PM
Yes, I'd say that sums it all up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 28, 2017, 02:07:07 PM
(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18403179_1458193030868160_8136633120113617013_n.jpg?oh=e1afe848d5534579dc48385a5af42416&oe=59B9BEFA)

My other sister posted a video by Yolo Mionneapolis that amounts to, "Trump is president, so suck it up."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 28, 2017, 02:16:15 PM
You can make the same meme with a different flag and 5.5 million dead German soldiers... stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 28, 2017, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 28, 2017, 02:16:15 PM
You can make the same meme with a different flag and 5.5 million dead German soldiers... stupid.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Although with some people that leads ironically to the reaction, "That's ancient history, why do you bring this up?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on May 28, 2017, 03:03:49 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DA7URvxW0AA6Nt9?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 28, 2017, 03:13:14 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 28, 2017, 03:23:10 PM
Obvious photoshop.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on May 28, 2017, 08:05:00 PM
Yea, hands are too big.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on May 29, 2017, 04:24:22 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 28, 2017, 02:07:07 PM
(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18403179_1458193030868160_8136633120113617013_n.jpg?oh=e1afe848d5534579dc48385a5af42416&oe=59B9BEFA)

My other sister posted a video by Yolo Mionneapolis that amounts to, "Trump is president, so suck it up."

I generally respond to this crap, "Yeah, they died fighting to not be Americans. Kinda put a damper on that whole 'United' part of 'United States.'"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2017, 04:38:13 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 29, 2017, 04:24:22 AM
I generally respond to this crap, "Yeah, they died fighting to not be Americans. Kinda put a damper on that whole 'United' part of 'United States.'"

Well, they also shared:

(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/18423958_1868710053370275_4268225492063012722_n.jpg?oh=edd9d08d6d67391177b40ac734454df0&oe=59A98DDF)
Inscription: "Being German means being loyal - He who found death in holy battle - rests in fatherland, even on foreign soil"

Comment by original poster: "What about these memorials? It remembers the deaths of both wars. If I pay my respects, am I right-wing, too?"

(Context: following the soldier preparing a false-flag attack to incite hatred against refugees, a discussion occurred about right wing tendencies in the German military, and whether some of their traditions are still appropriate.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 29, 2017, 05:01:07 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 29, 2017, 04:24:22 AM
I generally respond to this crap, "Yeah, they died fighting to not be Americans.

What was the name of the country they formed again?  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 29, 2017, 11:00:12 AM
The Confederate States of Antarctica?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 29, 2017, 11:06:53 AM
Bring it on down to Liquorville!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on May 30, 2017, 02:25:05 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 28, 2017, 02:07:07 PM
My other sister posted a video by Yolo Mionneapolis that amounts to, "Trump is president, so suck it up."

This is the set of flags the idiots are bringing to City Park in New Orleans, former home of the statute to Gen. Beauregard.

I imagine the conversation went like this:

"I don't have a Confederate flag, even a thin blue line one, or a Mississippi flag, but I have a President Trump flag I could bring?"

"Good enough."
(https://i.imgur.com/UkycHRW.png)

From the left to the right, the "Nyberg Three Percent Flag" (Alabama militia group), President Trump, a Confederate / Thin Blue Line combination, the original Confederate flag (Stars & Bars), the Mississippi state flag, the Firefighter "Thin Red Line" American Flag variant, the Army of Northern Virginia's flag, and then I can't quite make out the US flag variant behind it.

Recently they have also added the flag of independent Louisiana (between secession and joining the CSA), which frankly looks awful.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Flag_of_Louisiana_%28February_1861%29.svg/640px-Flag_of_Louisiana_%28February_1861%29.svg.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 30, 2017, 02:27:20 PM
Quote from: ulmont on May 30, 2017, 02:25:05 PM


Recently they have also added the flag of independent Louisiana (between secession and joining the CSA), which frankly looks awful.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Flag_of_Louisiana_%28February_1861%29.svg/640px-Flag_of_Louisiana_%28February_1861%29.svg.png)

Well, it has what looks like a Soviet star on it, which may be fitting.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on May 30, 2017, 02:30:46 PM
People's Republic of Louisiana looks interesting
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 30, 2017, 02:32:40 PM
Zombie HUEY Long will keep the cadres in line.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on May 30, 2017, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2017, 02:32:40 PM
Zombie Howie Long will keep the cadres in line.

Zombie Huey Long.

Howie Long could do it too though, he just isn't a zombie yet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 30, 2017, 03:47:23 PM
Doh! That is what I get for not looking it up first  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2017, 05:00:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2017, 03:47:23 PM
Doh! That is what I get for not looking it up first  :P

FFS, Valmy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 30, 2017, 05:57:53 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2017, 05:00:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2017, 03:47:23 PM
Doh! That is what I get for not looking it up first  :P

FFS, Valmy

I know :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 30, 2017, 06:23:37 PM
(https://images.dailykos.com/images/406312/story_image/Screen_Shot_2017-05-28_at_12.19.27_AM.png?1495948839)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 30, 2017, 07:18:52 PM
What Trump did to Spicey was fucked up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2017, 07:21:53 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 30, 2017, 07:18:52 PM
What Trump did to Spicey was fucked up.

Yeah, it was.  But that's how he rolls.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on May 30, 2017, 08:12:53 PM
All hail the Orb
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2017, 12:42:49 AM
Y'all be relieved to hear that my sister stands with Barron Trump at this time of crisis. Also, The View should be canceled because they bash Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 01, 2017, 06:12:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 01, 2017, 12:42:49 AM
Y'all be relieved to hear that my sister stands with Barron Trump at this time of crisis. Also, The View should be canceled because they bash Trump.

#AutismTogether
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2017, 06:39:25 AM
A Ukrainian friend posted this:
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18768235_10155228679525586_1290351891795857743_o.jpg?oh=b20c9cb46fe7660bbc4c17dbd4b4e77a&oe=59AC330C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 02:15:11 PM
Ukraine and Russia. One nation, two governments. Like Korea. Or China and Taiwan.


Or the US and Canada.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 01, 2017, 02:23:14 PM
the eye of sauron is a nice touch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 01, 2017, 02:38:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 02:15:11 PM
Ukraine and Russia. One nation, two governments. Like Korea. Or China and Taiwan.


Or the US and Canada.  :ph34r:

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 01, 2017, 03:02:04 PM
are you more upset about the canada, or the Ukraine part?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 01, 2017, 03:06:25 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2017, 03:02:04 PM
are you more upset about the canada, or the Ukraine part?

Upset is not the right word.  Obvious troll was obvious.

And both.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 03:14:06 PM
Not a troll. You don't  generally develop such strong sentiments toward foreign nations as displayed in Syts pic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 01, 2017, 03:22:47 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2017, 03:02:04 PM
are you more upset about the canada, or the Ukraine part?

Perhaps he's upset about the parallel, which implies that the US will one day be a wasteland.

With Trump in charge, that outcome has become that much more likely.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 04:13:56 PM
Why should that bother him, when Alberta is already a wasteland?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 01, 2017, 09:47:30 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 03:14:06 PM
Not a troll. You don't  generally develop such strong sentiments toward foreign nations as displayed in Syts pic.

People do develop strong sentiments all the time towards foreign nations they hate. Especially ones that have annexed some of their territory.

WTF are you even talking about? I mean generally except all of human history?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 10:46:35 PM
Mexicans love us!  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 02, 2017, 01:16:24 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 10:46:35 PM
Mexicans love us!  :mad:

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2017, 02:10:37 AM
(https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18670945_10158714850905321_736125765167196389_n.jpg?oh=b2aa370a486b490dd1aaa8a70063db8e&oe=599E5438)

Financial advice from "DebtSlayer420"? Seems legit.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 02, 2017, 02:17:12 AM
This will end badly if your sister follows that advice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2017, 12:08:54 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18839383_1376396055776404_6310648313248710394_n.jpg?oh=60b9c9b9bf1ab9e9eec2cd19ad1c9129&oe=59A2D8FB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 02, 2017, 12:11:02 PM
I don't understand any of that :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 02, 2017, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 02, 2017, 12:11:02 PM
I don't understand any of that :unsure:

You're a Mexicant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 02, 2017, 12:13:09 PM
I don't get what Mexican have to do with it. Elmo would work. Red and has to do with words of the day and the like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2017, 12:19:20 PM
It makes as much sense as this which popped up yesterday:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/18835747_1186070748171505_2063115020416187135_n.jpg?oh=96a2718286a443c3ac70f2899276193d&oe=59E36394)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 02, 2017, 12:20:40 PM
So since I am not German people do not think that? Huh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 02, 2017, 12:23:45 PM
In the area I live most girls actually do seem to own a dirndl these days as you wear that when you go to the beer fests here. That's a recent development though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2017, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 02, 2017, 12:23:45 PM
In the area I live most girls actually do seem to own a dirndl these days as you wear that when you go to the beer fests here. That's a recent development though.

That sounds like it could be fun.  :perv:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 02, 2017, 12:42:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2017, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 02, 2017, 12:23:45 PM
In the area I live most girls actually do seem to own a dirndl these days as you wear that when you go to the beer fests here. That's a recent development though.

That sounds like it could be fun.  :perv:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.stuttgarter-zeitung.de%2Fmedia.media.23922c86-a5e1-4e23-bee1-a457cdb58fba.normalized.jpeg&hash=f3827b42eb9f54192e9c9323e293415d6e535499)

edit: You either have to go all-in, get drunk, sing along and be merry. Or just not go. It'seems impossible to enjoy this sober.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on June 04, 2017, 07:02:45 PM
Found a Twitter account for all your MAGA needs:

https://mobile.twitter.com/VoteTrumpPics/status/858485093341564928

Soak in the crazy.

Edit: FUCKING AUTOCORRECT
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on June 04, 2017, 07:19:08 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F1h3v5e.jpg&hash=8df81684cd7af7ca4658d675baa2ba5f5f85b232)

THEY SHALL NOT PASS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on June 04, 2017, 07:20:23 PM
GODDAMN TINY PIC! WHARGARBLL
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 04, 2017, 07:20:38 PM
lol, Ed has a tinydic
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on June 04, 2017, 07:24:29 PM
You liked it the other night.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 04, 2017, 07:24:53 PM
Oh, behave.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on June 04, 2017, 07:28:58 PM
I'm glad I have more than enough stupid, that I don't need to go to on facebook to top it up.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 05, 2017, 02:42:08 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18839045_1362483287122052_926234501810417089_n.jpg?oh=5ae90ddb313e957c1d29d5995ffe83bf&oe=59DA921C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 05, 2017, 02:47:36 AM
Is accepting evidence from science a partisan affair? What's with this let's make a deal, attitude?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 05, 2017, 03:20:02 AM
I only have the one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 05, 2017, 03:25:17 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 05, 2017, 02:47:36 AM
Is accepting evidence from science a partisan affair? What's with this let's make a deal, attitude?

The era of Trump. Everything's negotiable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 05, 2017, 03:32:39 AM
Trump's reputation isn't. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 05, 2017, 08:50:17 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 05, 2017, 02:47:36 AM
Is accepting evidence from science a partisan affair? What's with this let's make a deal, attitude?

She is saying we are hypocrites about science. Because that is always the angle to stop from actually giving any credence to the other sides points.

I was not aware Liberals had a position on biological sex but there you go.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 05, 2017, 08:53:55 AM
She's right about the two sexes part. Sorry to anyone who gets zir feelings hurt by this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 05, 2017, 08:59:20 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 05, 2017, 08:53:55 AM
She's right about the two sexes part. Sorry to anyone who gets zir feelings hurt by this.

Well see? Already there. Trump can go ahead and accept climate change now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 05, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
I thought that's the difference between sex and gender.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 05, 2017, 09:02:52 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 05, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
I thought that's the difference between sex and gender.

Yes, as I said, I don't recall there was a big liberal ideology on biological sex. I mean sure there are intersex people and all that but it is not generally a big political issue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 05, 2017, 09:08:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 05, 2017, 09:02:52 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 05, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
I thought that's the difference between sex and gender.

Yes, as I said, I don't recall there was a big liberal ideology on biological sex. I mean sure there are intersex people and all that but it is not generally a big political issue.

I would guess Tomi isn't splitting gender and sex.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 05, 2017, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 05, 2017, 09:02:52 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 05, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
I thought that's the difference between sex and gender.

Yes, as I said, I don't recall there was a big liberal ideology on biological sex. I mean sure there are intersex people and all that but it is not generally a big political issue.

Heh, Ms. Lahren is clearly too ignorant to even put together a decently fallacious tu quoque argument.  :lol:

Probably doesn't matter though - so is her intended audience.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 05, 2017, 03:16:02 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18881954_864045507085745_2663297686130538396_n.jpg?oh=a3db76a4f825c3b70d2219fcf33e98c8&oe=59AE2C02)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 05, 2017, 03:18:06 PM
Welfare was introduced in the 1930s and the Republicans have not controlled the House since.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 05, 2017, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 05, 2017, 03:18:06 PM
Welfare was introduced in the 1930s and the Republicans have not controlled the House since.
given what Syt told us of his sister(s), it's kinda ironic that she'd be saying fat people are lazy and Democrat...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 05, 2017, 03:55:11 PM
aren't the welfare states the southern republican states?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 05, 2017, 04:10:09 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 05, 2017, 03:55:11 PM
aren't the welfare states the southern republican states?

You're probably thinking of that map that Raz likes to post which shows net flows of federal money and which, to my understanding, is largely reflective of the prevalence of military bases and retirees in the south.  Although it's true that shitty southern states like Alabama do get a lot of federal money for education.  I've never seen anything that specifically addresses prevalence of welfare spending.

And welfare per se is more or less extinct since the Clinton reforms of FICA.  IIRC something like 4 million people are on TANF, the replacement.  Welfare these days doesn't mean welfare, it means Section 8 housing, food stamps, and disability payments.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 05, 2017, 05:05:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 05, 2017, 04:10:09 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 05, 2017, 03:55:11 PM
aren't the welfare states the southern republican states?

You're probably thinking of that map that Raz likes to post which shows net flows of federal money and which, to my understanding, is largely reflective of the prevalence of military bases and retirees in the south.  Although it's true that shitty southern states like Alabama do get a lot of federal money for education.  I've never seen anything that specifically addresses prevalence of welfare spending.

And welfare per se is more or less extinct since the Clinton reforms of FICA.  IIRC something like 4 million people are on TANF, the replacement.  Welfare these days doesn't mean welfare, it means Section 8 housing, food stamps, and disability payments.

It's reflective of the fact that rural areas don't bring in much cash.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 06, 2017, 09:40:13 PM

For your sister, Syt, on this D-Day anniversary.

(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic3230026.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on June 06, 2017, 09:56:35 PM
Needs more liberal tears.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on June 06, 2017, 10:10:14 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 06, 2017, 09:40:13 PM

For your sister, Syt, on this D-Day anniversary.

(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic3230026.jpg)

Is that D-day?

Because those hill look a lot like the ones overlooking Da Nang.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 06, 2017, 10:22:34 PM
Like she would know the fucking difference.  THE POINT IS #3 DAMMIT
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 06, 2017, 11:34:02 PM
That pic is a travesty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 07, 2017, 03:34:17 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 06, 2017, 10:22:34 PM
Like she would know the fucking difference.  THE POINT IS #3 DAMMIT

Are we supposed to know who drives it?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 07, 2017, 03:35:47 AM
Good meme, but I don't think they watch NASCAR. Oldest loves her college football, middle one her hockey.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 07, 2017, 07:20:27 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 07, 2017, 03:34:17 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 06, 2017, 10:22:34 PM
Like she would know the fucking difference.  THE POINT IS #3 DAMMIT

Are we supposed to know who drives it?  :huh:

Yes.

Dale fucking Earnhardt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 07, 2017, 07:59:08 AM
Sorry, watching traffic isn't my idea of fun.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on June 07, 2017, 08:09:29 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2017, 11:34:02 PM
That pic is a travesty.

You're referring to the set up of the car and/or the products/service advertised on it, aren't you?   :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 07, 2017, 08:16:58 AM
Quote from: mongers on June 07, 2017, 08:09:29 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2017, 11:34:02 PM
That pic is a travesty.

You're referring to the set up of the car and/or the products/service advertised on it, aren't you?   :D

Or perhaps how badly that driver is losing his race. He's not even on the right continent as the finish line.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on June 07, 2017, 08:26:15 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 06, 2017, 11:34:02 PM
That pic is a travesty.

Needs more Jeff Gordon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 07, 2017, 08:32:10 AM
Needs more Eddie Rickenbacker.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 09, 2017, 07:16:44 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19029740_1215018615287181_4359488565458123648_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=9720e82452e55653874df37d23b0674a&oe=59A997C3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 09, 2017, 07:17:29 PM
Poor Johnny Hero.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2017, 07:27:58 PM
I know. How the mighty have fallen.

The sad part is even in his degenerated state he is still one of our better Senators.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 10, 2017, 02:32:22 PM
(https://i.redd.it/x8l19fic5t2z.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 10, 2017, 02:45:06 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 11, 2017, 04:08:09 PM
News story in WP:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germany-afghan-man-stabbed-5-year-old-after-row-over-noise/2017/06/06/76be3fd0-4ac8-11e7-987c-42ab5745db2e_story.html?utm_term=.e6ddcf8a99af

QuoteGermany: Afghan man stabbed 5-year-old after row over noise

BERLIN — German authorities say an Afghan man who had served prison time for arson fatally stabbed a five-year-old Russian boy at a home for asylum-seekers after an apparent argument about noisy children.

The 41-year-old assailant also wounded the boy's mother in Saturday's incident in the Bavarian town of Arnschwang. He died after being shot by police officers.

Police said Tuesday they have interviewed the mother and determined that the assailant had apparently been angry over noise made by playing children.

They also say the assailant was sentenced to 5 years and 10 months in prison in 2009 for arson. He was ordered to stay at the asylum home after completing his sentence, and wore an electronic foot tag to determine his whereabouts.


And this is how it's reported on sites my U.S.-side family reads/shares on FB:

http://madworldnews.com/muslim-refugee-noisy-children/

QuoteAnnoyed Muslim Refugee Shows 5-Year-Old How They 'Fix' Noisy Children In His Country

Over the weekend, an asylum seeker became increasingly annoyed by a group of innocent children laughing and playing outside near his home. Fed up with their amusement, the irritated refugee pulled a 5-year-old child aside and show them just how he would deal with "noisy children" in his home country.

Since Germany has opened its borders to the unrelenting flood of Muslim migrants, they've been introduced to all the contributions that Islam's religious and cultural practices have to offer a non-Muslim nation. Now, citizens are desperately pulling at the reins of their own refugee crisis in a fruitless attempt to prevent the same barbarity that is rampant in Muslim countries from overtaking their own.

The Washington Post reports that an Afghan migrant, who was approved as a refugee despite a prior federal conviction, was staying in a home for asylum seekers in Arnschwang when he became irked by "noisy children." After arguing about the clamor exuding from several refugee children, the 41-year-old Arab migrant realized nothing was going to be done to remedy the ruckus. Taking matters into his own hands, the Muslim refugee walked up to a 5-year-old boy who was innocently playing and stabbed him to death.

The boy's horrified mother, who is a 47-year-old Russian political refugee, desperately tried to save her son from the migrant. Although she survived several knife wounds, her precious boy died before emergency medical professionals could arrive at the scene. Fortunately, the Muslim migrant was fatally shot by Germany police who arrived shortly after the ordeal.

Breitbart reports that the Afghan national was convicted of arson in 2009, for which he served 6 years in prison. Despite trying to kill his then-wife and cousin by burning them to death, he was not charged with attempted murder. Unbelievably, he was released to the asylum under the stipulation that he wears an ankle monitor. As expected, this "monitoring" did nothing to save his young victim. Incredibly, the court ignored the fact that this previously failed-killer might try to kill again.

Apparently, the Muslim migrant was to be deported but escaped extradition by claiming he had converted to Christianity, knowing that the court would not send him back to Afghanistan because it would pose a risk to his life as an apostate. Of course, this was merely a ruse to stay in Germany by claiming to be a refugee of political and religious persecution of Sharia law. Sadly, it worked, and a 5-year-old child had to pay the price for the court's ill judgment.

Disturbingly, migrants are literally getting away with murder. In June 2016, a migrant couple staying at an asylum center in Sunne, Sweden, was arrested for brutally beating their 5-month-old baby to death. The 26-year-old mother and 20-year-old father blamed each other for the infant's gruesome death and the court admitted that it knew that one of the parents was guilty of killing the child. However, the court not only allowed both parents to walk free but provided the mother with over $18,000 in damages, even though they caught her lying about her identity. The father's attorney declared that his client will also seek monetary compensation.

Of course, Germany has other problems arising directly from taking in over one million asylum seekers. Of the 1.2 million migrants who arrived in just 2 years, only 34,000 (2.8 percent) have found jobs. German taxpayers are so overwhelmed with funding food stamps, welfare, medical care, education, legal fees, and housing for these migrants that the government's Institute for Labour Research is admitting it would be impossible to even have 50 percent of migrants in the workforce.

Unfortunately, the Germans have fallen for liberal propaganda concerning the refugee crisis. Over 72 percent of all refugee arrivals are men. Of course, this isn't necessarily as high as the figure could be, as Sweden recently confirmed that 75 percent of child refugees are also adults. In addition, only 6.5 percent of migrants are from Syria, and less than 1 percent are from Iraq, which was the whole basis of the left's purported refugee crisis.

The West is welcoming in an ideology and culture that cannot coexist with any other. We are expected to tolerate the intolerable even at the expense of innocent children. Many were fooled into believing that we were taking in refugee children only to find that they are militant men ready to sacrifice our own children to eradicate our way of life. It's time to put our own children first instead of endangering their future in order to acquiesce the hordes of migrants men who've left their own behind.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on June 11, 2017, 07:09:07 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 11, 2017, 04:08:09 PM
Quote
Disturbingly, migrants are literally getting away
with murder. In June 2016, a migrant couple staying at an asylum center in Sunne, Sweden, was arrested for brutally beating their 5-month-old baby to death. The 26-year-old mother and 20-year-old father blamed each other for the infant's gruesome death and the court admitted that it knew that one of the parents was guilty of killing the child. However, the court not only allowed both parents to walk free but provided the mother with over $18,000 in damages, even though they caught her lying about her identity. The father's attorney declared that his client will also seek monetary compensation.


Not sure what any legal system could be expected to do about a situation like this.  Sure, we know one of the parents killed the child, but not which one.  Attempt to try one of them, the defendant simply blames the other parent, and that immediately creates reasonable doubt.  Unless there's fairly clear evidence that points to one of them being the guilty party, or that shows that they acted together in committing the crime, I don't see how you could get a conviction.  And their status as immigrants has nothing to do with that problem.

I don't see why the mother would be awarded damages out of the public treasury, though, unless that's a thing in Sweden.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 12, 2017, 07:49:25 AM
Quote from: dps on June 11, 2017, 07:09:07 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 11, 2017, 04:08:09 PM
Quote
Disturbingly, migrants are literally getting away
with murder. In June 2016, a migrant couple staying at an asylum center in Sunne, Sweden, was arrested for brutally beating their 5-month-old baby to death. The 26-year-old mother and 20-year-old father blamed each other for the infant's gruesome death and the court admitted that it knew that one of the parents was guilty of killing the child. However, the court not only allowed both parents to walk free but provided the mother with over $18,000 in damages, even though they caught her lying about her identity. The father's attorney declared that his client will also seek monetary compensation.


Not sure what any legal system could be expected to do about a situation like this.  Sure, we know one of the parents killed the child, but not which one.  Attempt to try one of them, the defendant simply blames the other parent, and that immediately creates reasonable doubt.  Unless there's fairly clear evidence that points to one of them being the guilty party, or that shows that they acted together in committing the crime, I don't see how you could get a conviction.  And their status as immigrants has nothing to do with that problem.

I don't see why the mother would be awarded damages out of the public treasury, though, unless that's a thing in Sweden.
how about charging them both, not for murder, but for negligeance causing death? (wathever the legal term might be)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 12, 2017, 02:21:13 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12088079_966342443427309_1991903300795624254_n.jpg?oh=30b109fa15477b2db07b38247ec88b67&oe=59E78ABC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2017, 02:27:26 PM
OK then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 12, 2017, 02:29:58 PM
Male butts are terrifying!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 03:21:17 PM
Slavery does not offend you but black people do? Shocking  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2017, 03:24:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 03:21:17 PM
Slavery does not offend you but black people do? Shocking  :P

why's it always gotta be about race?

Obviously they are pro "states' rights to own briefs" supporters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 12, 2017, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2017, 02:29:58 PM
Male butts are terrifying!

I'm going to have to admit I'm a bit perplexed why that is still fashionable.  Wearing your pants like that was popular 25 years ago.  I would have thought that fashion would have moved on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 12, 2017, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 12, 2017, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2017, 02:29:58 PM
Male butts are terrifying!

I'm going to have to admit I'm a bit perplexed why that is still fashionable.  Wearing your pants like that was popular 25 years ago.  I would have thought that fashion would have moved on.

Ripped jeans are still popular.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 12, 2017, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2017, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 12, 2017, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2017, 02:29:58 PM
Male butts are terrifying!

I'm going to have to admit I'm a bit perplexed why that is still fashionable.  Wearing your pants like that was popular 25 years ago.  I would have thought that fashion would have moved on.

Ripped jeans are still popular.

Popular again, you mean. After quite a while
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 12, 2017, 04:19:59 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBhQDvWVYAEChKa.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 12, 2017, 04:24:25 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19113562_10155909694291729_6323734310205794958_n.jpg?oh=8d0f87f3cc2d4de20b9560a7525a92ec&oe=59A600E1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2017, 04:53:21 PM
:lol: Good grief.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 12, 2017, 04:57:25 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 12, 2017, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2017, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 12, 2017, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2017, 02:29:58 PM
Male butts are terrifying!

I'm going to have to admit I'm a bit perplexed why that is still fashionable.  Wearing your pants like that was popular 25 years ago.  I would have thought that fashion would have moved on.

Ripped jeans are still popular.

Popular again, you mean. After quite a while

I don't think they disappeared. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 12, 2017, 06:24:35 PM
Kids these days are too lazy to use thread and needle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on June 12, 2017, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2017, 03:21:17 PM
Treason does not offend you but black people do? Shocking  :P

FYP.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 17, 2017, 04:40:01 PM
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/e14a1e27992bef316c80dece5599ec59/tumblr_o7hhuvfENT1v7aovao1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 17, 2017, 05:36:46 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19113879_1345301858881356_6592759703274306677_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=af826e2b008dc02f2517ce874a6cd30f&oe=59DE6F69)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 17, 2017, 06:10:44 PM
Jew in a six-figure luxury car = BERNIE
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on June 17, 2017, 07:27:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 17, 2017, 06:10:44 PM
Jew in a six-figure luxury car = BERNIE

Yup

Here's the Snopes to prove it (http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-audi-8/)   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
Even if it was true it is a hilariously sad strawman+ad hominem absurdity. The fact it is just 4Chan propaganda makes it worse.

At least Syt's relatives will believe it.

Oh I guess I should mention that according to right wingers on Facebook Snopes is liberal propaganda anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 17, 2017, 07:48:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
Oh I guess I should mention that according to right wingers on Facebook Snopes is liberal propaganda anyway.

:lol: Snopes has been around since the days of CompuServe and Prodigy in the 1990s
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 17, 2017, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 17, 2017, 07:48:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
Oh I guess I should mention that according to right wingers on Facebook Snopes is liberal propaganda anyway.

:lol: Snopes has been around since the days of CompuServe and Prodigy in the 1990s
right around the Clinton era.  Can't be a coincidence!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on June 17, 2017, 08:34:12 PM
Seedy used AOL.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 17, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
Oh I guess I should mention that according to right wingers on Facebook Snopes is liberal propaganda anyway.

The rational, thinking thing to do in that case is perform your own fact checking.  Was Bernie really in Arizona on that day?  Find out for yourself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 18, 2017, 01:14:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
Even if it was true it is a hilariously sad strawman+ad hominem absurdity. The fact it is just 4Chan propaganda makes it worse.

At least Syt's relatives will believe it.

Oh I guess I should mention that according to right wingers on Facebook Snopes is liberal propaganda anyway.

Pretty soon the dictionary is going to be accused liberal bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 18, 2017, 05:25:02 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 17, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
Oh I guess I should mention that according to right wingers on Facebook Snopes is liberal propaganda anyway.

The rational, thinking thing to do in that case is perform your own fact checking.  Was Bernie really in Arizona on that day?  Find out for yourself.

Why bother?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 18, 2017, 06:33:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 17, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
Oh I guess I should mention that according to right wingers on Facebook Snopes is liberal propaganda anyway.

The rational, thinking thing to do in that case is perform your own fact checking.  Was Bernie really in Arizona on that day?  Find out for yourself.
rational?  thinking?  For Bernie Bros and Trumpistas??
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 23, 2017, 02:03:22 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19221648_273595639774014_1203621690471324979_o.jpg?oh=ffd739d6d119e758c8259bb97727530b&oe=59C9FE2B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 23, 2017, 02:11:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 17, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
Oh I guess I should mention that according to right wingers on Facebook Snopes is liberal propaganda anyway.

The rational, thinking thing to do in that case is perform your own fact checking.  Was Bernie really in Arizona on that day?  Find out for yourself.

Facts also have a liberal bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 23, 2017, 04:12:38 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19145917_10154881218644069_7575012344306049164_n.jpg?oh=9578b1877237d45d7654ede501b39bf5&oe=59DBEB82)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 23, 2017, 04:14:38 PM
10 quatloos says that goes up in the Round Room.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 23, 2017, 04:18:43 PM
Why the hell does he have a beard?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 23, 2017, 04:21:47 PM
Because he is, in that rendition, a man. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 23, 2017, 05:41:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 23, 2017, 04:21:47 PM
Because he is, in that rendition, a man. :huh:

But why the hell does he have a beard?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 23, 2017, 05:47:13 PM
Asked and answered
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 23, 2017, 05:58:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 23, 2017, 05:47:13 PM
Asked and answered

We don't accept your cis-gendered assumptions, check your privilege.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 23, 2017, 06:01:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 23, 2017, 04:18:43 PM
Why the hell does he have a beard?

My guess is to hide the seam in the digital meld.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 23, 2017, 06:14:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 23, 2017, 05:58:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 23, 2017, 05:47:13 PM
Asked and answered

We don't accept your cis-gendered assumptions, check your privilege.

I don't know. There seem to be many trans men who use their attainment of facial hair as part of their expression of virility.

(https://megdon.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/adjpg.jpg?w=560)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/26/a2/8d/26a28dc84463fc3340165cf45fb396a8--angel-pictures-transgender.jpg)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flaithashley.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F02%2Fout-com.jpg&hash=08cbdddd4e2f5bae8805b8430bc591ccf4c66e94)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oddee.com%2F_media%2Fimgs%2Farticles2%2Fa98038_rsz_katastrophe.jpg&hash=9b77f5a7d73acd18369e23c2f630f87e6f31df08)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on June 23, 2017, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 23, 2017, 02:03:22 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19221648_273595639774014_1203621690471324979_o.jpg?oh=ffd739d6d119e758c8259bb97727530b&oe=59C9FE2B)

One share= one amen.

Ignore if you love Satan
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 23, 2017, 09:41:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 23, 2017, 05:47:13 PM
Asked and answered

Stereotype much?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 23, 2017, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 23, 2017, 06:14:07 PM

I don't know. There seem to be many trans men who use their attainment of facial hair as part of their expression of virility.


Perhaps she has just begun her transition. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 25, 2017, 12:44:11 AM
(https://i.redd.it/mt8pecu5yn5z.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 25, 2017, 04:37:28 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 25, 2017, 12:44:11 AM
(https://i.redd.it/mt8pecu5yn5z.jpg)

Oh, it's a secret but Isis has already been defeated. All that news you are still hearing about them? It's like when you see that shining light and shit from long dead stars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on June 25, 2017, 08:51:14 AM
DAT ASS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 27, 2017, 09:39:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19437283_843633679118493_8321552224971021889_n.jpg?oh=5528047d49a88d9445aa1e22fc06f74b&oe=5A105C7E)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1012685_10151486007625911_892064461_n.jpg?oh=f6c634ff187798268745a0e0865604f0&oe=5A0C8D1F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on June 27, 2017, 10:08:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 27, 2017, 09:39:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19437283_843633679118493_8321552224971021889_n.jpg?oh=5528047d49a88d9445aa1e22fc06f74b&oe=5A105C7E)

Do any Americans actually illegally immigrate to Mexico?

And it's sad that Mexican roads are that much better than California roads.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 27, 2017, 10:20:57 AM
People in Central America regularly immigrate to Mexico. Many people here forget Mexico is a very successful Latin American economy. If they could just lick that corruption and crime problem it might be a really nice country.

But Mexico is less efficient at enforcing its 'by the book' punishment than this meme suggests of course. After all many illegal immigrants to the US from Mexico originally illegally immigrated to Mexico from someplace else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 27, 2017, 11:12:50 AM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19400145_1011454758991423_8786713848481664680_n.jpg?oh=dfbe5718e5516ada0ef995d66bbe9abf&oe=5A0FBA55)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 27, 2017, 11:15:14 AM
I am starting to doubt the Senate Republicans can pull it off now. Seedy might yet be saved.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on June 27, 2017, 11:23:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 27, 2017, 10:20:57 AM
People in Central America regularly immigrate to Mexico.

Sure, but that's not our problem, is it?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 27, 2017, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: dps on June 27, 2017, 11:23:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 27, 2017, 10:20:57 AM
People in Central America regularly immigrate to Mexico.

Sure, but that's not our problem, is it?



Well some of them are just on their way here so if you see that as a problem then sure :P

But my point was that Mexico is not tossing them all in prison.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 02, 2017, 03:45:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/U0gNAeZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 03, 2017, 02:33:51 AM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10155240_482758401827600_8891988862274511899_n.png?oh=dc1d6952b603819ba7bc2e4a25e5c9f9&oe=59CC2D25)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 03, 2017, 02:47:39 AM
Guns > country and liberty? Lulz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 03, 2017, 03:11:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11692503_10207183811502768_552454539343150183_n.jpg?oh=2a560e9b5787c321aea09f1ee38743f6&oe=59DBFAC1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 03, 2017, 04:24:31 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 03, 2017, 02:33:51 AM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10155240_482758401827600_8891988862274511899_n.png?oh=dc1d6952b603819ba7bc2e4a25e5c9f9&oe=59CC2D25)

Are you friends with Syt's extended family now?  :P

Nice to see how people value inanimate objects so much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 03, 2017, 04:35:03 AM
My family has its odd ones. Here perhaps a little unfair as my aunt (a naturalized American citizen from Mexico) has always been a slight bit off brain-wise since some seizures about 5 years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 03, 2017, 06:27:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 03, 2017, 04:35:03 AM
My family has its odd ones. Here perhaps a little unfair as my aunt (a naturalized American citizen from Mexico) has always been a slight bit off brain-wise since some seizures about 5 years ago.

I think non-native citizens have a tendency to overcompensate. Or ones that feel they have a heritage to compensate for. Like, almost all the loudest far-right leaders in Hungary have had obviously foreign last names (which is quite common in Hungary, but still it stands out when you are all about the thousands of years of magyar history of your ancestors)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 03, 2017, 07:49:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 03, 2017, 06:27:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 03, 2017, 04:35:03 AM
My family has its odd ones. Here perhaps a little unfair as my aunt (a naturalized American citizen from Mexico) has always been a slight bit off brain-wise since some seizures about 5 years ago.

I think non-native citizens have a tendency to overcompensate. Or ones that feel they have a heritage to compensate for. Like, almost all the loudest far-right leaders in Hungary have had obviously foreign last names (which is quite common in Hungary, but still it stands out when you are all about the thousands of years of magyar history of your ancestors)

What's weird is that her husband (an American who married her when she was 15 and fresh from Mexico) has a lot of anti-Latino/immigrant views. And I'm like hmm, but many people in your family are Latino and many people in your wife's family were at one point in time illegal immigrants...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 03, 2017, 07:54:33 AM
Let me guess: "that's different, I don't mean them, I mean the useless criminal ones"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 07:56:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 03, 2017, 03:11:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11692503_10207183811502768_552454539343150183_n.jpg?oh=2a560e9b5787c321aea09f1ee38743f6&oe=59DBFAC1)


:lol:  Off the rails
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 03, 2017, 08:00:05 AM
I was really confused there for a minute since I think it has been proven the pyramids were not built by slaves...but then I remembered this is probably a Bible literalness thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 03, 2017, 08:08:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19642656_492528771138918_2459863103038057678_n.jpg?oh=ff9c03ffe3d98fae68a676e862e6be50&oe=5A0AA4E5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 08:10:16 AM
That makes no sense at all.  OH I GET IT POOR NIGGERS GET TO HAVE EVERYTHING
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on July 03, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 08:10:16 AM
That makes no sense at all.  OH I GET IT POOR NIGGERS GET TO HAVE EVERYTHING

I get it. It's cheaper to buy bulk, so poor people need to plan their shopping more than those who can afford to shop what they like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Liep on July 03, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
I get it. It's cheaper to buy bulk, so poor people need to plan their shopping more than those who can afford to shop what they like.

Food assistance has been slashed so much, buying in bulk doesn't really work.  This month's meal is: noodles!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 03, 2017, 08:22:24 AM
Quote from: Liep on July 03, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 08:10:16 AM
That makes no sense at all.  OH I GET IT POOR NIGGERS GET TO HAVE EVERYTHING

I get it. It's cheaper to buy bulk, so poor people need to plan their shopping more than those who can afford to shop what they like.

No it isn't cheaper...I mean unless these people are at different stores.

Yi said we pretty much ended welfare in the 1990s. That being the case why are people still complaining about it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on July 03, 2017, 08:24:37 AM
You don't do the buy 6 get one free kind of deals over there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 03, 2017, 08:26:29 AM
Quote from: Liep on July 03, 2017, 08:24:37 AM
You don't do the buy 6 get one free kind of deals over there?

Well I cannot speak for the rest of the country but not commonly no.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 08:28:02 AM
Quote from: Liep on July 03, 2017, 08:24:37 AM
You don't do the buy 6 get one free kind of deals over there?

I'm sure they'll appreciate 7 cans of pumpkin filling, Mono.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 03, 2017, 08:50:08 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 08:10:16 AM
That makes no sense at all.  OH I GET IT POOR NIGGERS GET TO HAVE EVERYTHING

Here's how they do it in Kentucky:

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Using-taxpayers-money-for-profit-246412561.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 09:08:38 AM
Stay vigilant, derniggerhater.  You get 'em!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 03, 2017, 09:12:26 AM
They're rednecks, so no need for you to circle the wagons.  I bet a lot of those people voted Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 03, 2017, 09:12:26 AM
They're rednecks, so no need for you to circle the wagons.  I bet a lot of those people voted Trump.

That's unpossible.  Good, God-fearing, salt-of-the-earth Real AmericansTM would never do something like that. Just those wily darkies and their mischievous Kenyan ways.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 03, 2017, 09:25:10 AM
Those types don't even know how to misspell Keynesian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 03, 2017, 09:34:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 03, 2017, 02:33:51 AM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10155240_482758401827600_8891988862274511899_n.png?oh=dc1d6952b603819ba7bc2e4a25e5c9f9&oe=59CC2D25)
#1 and #6 are contradictory.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 03, 2017, 09:40:43 AM
THESE COLORS DON'T RUN
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 03, 2017, 09:50:42 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 03, 2017, 08:50:08 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 08:10:16 AM
That makes no sense at all.  OH I GET IT POOR NIGGERS GET TO HAVE EVERYTHING

Here's how they do it in Kentucky:

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Using-taxpayers-money-for-profit-246412561.html

Ah. Food stamp abuse. I guess that is the new welfare outrage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 03, 2017, 10:08:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 03, 2017, 09:50:42 AM
Ah. Food stamp abuse. I guess that is the new welfare outrage.

If you're in finance, then it's entrepreneurial. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on July 03, 2017, 10:29:55 AM
"That makes me smart"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 03, 2017, 11:20:45 AM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19665536_1937143409836898_8534740065961960485_n.jpg?oh=908082f96a5711eee51cef0e94f413d5&oe=59D0A3D2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 03, 2017, 11:43:37 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 03, 2017, 08:22:24 AM
Yi said we pretty much ended welfare in the 1990s. That being the case why are people still complaining about it?
Right wing memes don't always hit things on the nose factually.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 04, 2017, 05:38:32 AM
And so it begins, more coming later.  :P

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_T17RtXYAAfb64.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2017, 08:18:36 AM
Quote from: Zanza on July 02, 2017, 03:45:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/U0gNAeZ.jpg)

Inspirational words.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 04, 2017, 09:21:57 AM
I also like how Kennedy and Roosevelt kind of look wistful, and Trump looks like he's thinking "Bitch stole my cupcake"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on July 05, 2017, 08:59:00 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 04, 2017, 09:21:57 AM
I also like how Kennedy and Roosevelt kind of look wistful, and Trump looks like he's thinking "Bitch stole my cupcake"

Dude has two facial expressions, and I'll take that over the "I'm going to spank Ivanka so hard for saying something that sounds liberal when I get home" leer any day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2017, 01:01:22 PM
Okay, that one's damned funny.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 07, 2017, 09:46:49 AM
This is why we can't have nice things.

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--XAQWm5GR--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/irkktvq1eyrukcznjy4g.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 07, 2017, 12:22:54 PM
Glad they added the three huge arrows there. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 07, 2017, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 07, 2017, 12:22:54 PM
Glad they added the three huge arrows there.

Well, clearly the sign wasn't obvious enough on its own.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2017, 12:31:20 PM
Amazing Pence still messed up with those giant arrows hanging there. I guess he is just a badboy who plays by his own rules.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 07, 2017, 12:38:09 PM
We also now know why he won't have dinner alone with women, he can't keep his hands off things he shouldn't be touching.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 07, 2017, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 07, 2017, 12:38:09 PM
We also now know why he won't have dinner alone with women, he can't keep his hands off things he shouldn't be touching.

They just need to be wearing the giant red arrows pointing at the "no touch" places.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 07, 2017, 12:47:46 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 07, 2017, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 07, 2017, 12:38:09 PM
We also now know why he won't have dinner alone with women, he can't keep his hands off things he shouldn't be touching.

They just need to be wearing the giant red arrows pointing at the "no touch" places.  ;)

Waxers can do amazing things these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 08, 2017, 11:47:28 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstmedia.startribune.com%2Fimages%2Fows_149946922087245.jpg&hash=fe57a6498cc6d83a3fedd809507a276d483d1c82)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 14, 2017, 01:54:53 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19702255_1773909965969931_3521038410680146856_n.jpg?oh=89d4cedeb4415bb26c35c910bb256673&oe=59CA4CB0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 14, 2017, 02:56:29 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 14, 2017, 02:59:07 AM
Apparently that guy also suggested a law that if a business doesn't allow you to bring your gun they would be held liable if you become the victim of violence on thier premises: http://fox4kc.com/2016/12/06/missouri-lawmaker-wants-businesses-held-accountable-if-violence-occurs-in-places-where-guns-are-prohibited/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 14, 2017, 04:56:25 AM
This whole gun obsession is so sad. Don't they think if you can't feel safe going to a store without sporting a gun, then you live in a fucked up shitty place?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 14, 2017, 07:35:52 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 14, 2017, 04:56:25 AM
This whole gun obsession is so sad. Don't they think if you can't feel safe going to a store without sporting a gun, then you live in a fucked up shitty place?


St. Louis is a pretty fucked up shitty place, it might be justified there.  This year a woman was shot at the Cardinals baseball game.  A stray bullet from outside the stadium somehow reached her way up in the bleachers.  In May, at my uncles funeral, the priest got beaten up and car jacked. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2017, 07:41:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 14, 2017, 01:54:53 AM
*The Show Me The Money State*

Funny if he actually makes the connection of how "cutting taxes" will directly impact "good public pension."  And why is a GOPer even mentioning pensions?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 14, 2017, 08:16:02 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2017, 07:41:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 14, 2017, 01:54:53 AM
*The Show Me The Money State*

Funny if he actually makes the connection of how "cutting taxes" will directly impact "good public pension."  And why is a GOPer even mentioning pensions?

Depends on what he means by "good public pension".  Given that he's taking shots at Illinois's public pension debacle, he probably means a well-managed public pension.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 14, 2017, 09:10:13 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 14, 2017, 07:35:52 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 14, 2017, 04:56:25 AM
This whole gun obsession is so sad. Don't they think if you can't feel safe going to a store without sporting a gun, then you live in a fucked up shitty place?


St. Louis is a pretty fucked up shitty place, it might be justified there.  This year a woman was shot at the Cardinals baseball game.  A stray bullet from outside the stadium somehow reached her way up in the bleachers.  In May, at my uncles funeral, the priest got beaten up and car jacked.

Never mind then, I also would want to be able to carry a gun to everywhere, there!

Here in London you only get sprayed in the face with acid when robbed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 14, 2017, 10:00:53 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 14, 2017, 07:41:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 14, 2017, 01:54:53 AM
*The Show Me The Money State*

Funny if he actually makes the connection of how "cutting taxes" will directly impact "good public pension."  And why is a GOPer even mentioning pensions?
Cutting taxes should not directly impact the quality of public pension.  It may impact it indirectly, by giving more incentives to steal from pension plans.  The problem with Illinois is that they now have to catch up on all the past years of dipping into pension funds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 16, 2017, 02:25:51 PM
(https://i.redd.it/pjb45a4bmy9z.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2017, 12:54:11 AM
https://politicalcowboy.com/it-pays-to-be-a-terrorist/

QuoteIt Pays to be a Terrorist

On July 27, 2002 Omar Khadr engaged in a firefight against a US military Special Forces unit. That's an undisputed fact. He was injured and found by US soldiers under a pile of rubble. That's an undisputed fact. He was taken to Guantanamo Bay and imprisoned with other terrorists who committed acts of violence against the US and our allies. That's an undisputed fact. After a confession, he was found guilty of throwing the hand-grenade that killed Sergeant Christopher Speer and left Sergeant Layne Morris blind in his right eye. Those are undisputed facts. This convicted terrorist and Canadian citizen is now a wealthy man courtesy of Justin Trudeau and the Canadian taxpayers. That's an undisputed fact.

Now a free man, Khadr sued the Canadian government for violation his rights. Trudeau and his leftist cronies defend the decision to not just apologize to the terrorist Khadr but back their words up with an $8 million settlement by saying it would be irresponsible to subject taxpayers to the cost of a lengthy trial. Also, Trudeau claims that the terrorist's rights were, indeed, violated under Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I haven't read that august document, but I'd bet a major body part or even a vital organ that I wouldn't be able to find a clause that outlines the right of a Canadian citizen to leave the country, take part in military operations against coalition forces that include Canadian troops, then return home to a hero's welcome and millions of dollars. I might be wrong here, but I'm not.

Leftists claim that Khadr was only a child at the time, following instructions from his father. He was old enough to fight against the best equipped and trained soldiers in the world. He was old enough to effectively throw a hand-grenade. He was old enough to kill and maim. If he's old enough to play, this terrorist is old enough to pay. That seems like a pretty simple concept, but it's the simple things that elude the left. As far as the excuse that he was just acting on his father's instructions, anybody who has told their teenager to do something knows that's a bunch of bologna. Most kids won't even clean their room or empty the trash without a fight, but this one jumped up and saluted when his dad told him to go take on the US Special Forces? He's either the bravest son on the planet or the stupidest. Taryn and Tanner Speer probably wish like hell they had the opportunity to defy their father.

The reasoning behind Trudeau's actions make him almost as reprehensible as Khadr. Barack Obama's favorite protégé seemed to care little for the man Khadr killed or the one he injured. He was, however, outraged that a Canadian citizen's rights might have been violated. He says those rights must be protected, "...even when it's uncomfortable." What Barry Obama, Jr. is saying here is that all Canadians will be afforded the full protection of the law, no matter what. That sounds pretty good, a noble and worthy goal. I have no problem with that.

What I have a problem with is treating a convicted terrorist who actively fought against his own country the same as a dumb kid who wasn't questioned properly after he was arrested for robbing the liquor store. Khadr didn't snatch a purse, beat up some jerk in a bar, or pass bad checks. He didn't rob a bank, steal someone's identity, or even kidnap a child. He carried out an act of war on an active battlefield.

He could easily have been killed or left for dead. The people he was defending and fighting for kill without mercy or even thought. They behead innocent victims on live TV and broadcast the carnage to the world. Mr. Khadr was taken to a hospital, given life-saving medical care, afforded religious privileges while detained at the Guantanamo Bay prison, and given a chance to defend himself and his actions in court. Every right he was given was something he fought to keep others from having.

When you take up arms against the men and women who have sworn to protect you with their lives, when you carry out violence against the hard-working people who pay exorbitant taxes for your education and healthcare, when you renounce the very laws being used to protect you and make you wealthy, you no longer deserve to be a citizen of that nation, and you don't deserve its protections. The $8 million is a nice bonus.

Canadians, any comments on this, uhm, "news" story? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 21, 2017, 01:11:23 AM
The term "undisputed fact" is used too often. That's an undisputed fact.

QuoteWhen you take up arms against the men and women who have sworn to protect you with their lives, when you carry out violence against the hard-working people who pay exorbitant taxes for your education and healthcare, when you renounce the very laws being used to protect you and make you wealthy, you no longer deserve to be a citizen of that nation, and you don't deserve its protections.

Lulz
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on July 21, 2017, 07:52:01 AM
 News of the payout was leaked to the media a couple weeks ago. It's been extremely controversial in Canada as well, with just over 70% of Canadians opposing the payout. The news story gained traction in the United States when a Canadian conservative MP recently wrote an article in the Wall Street Journal criticizing Trudeau for the payout.

Trudeau has justified the payment as having saved money for the Canadian taxpayer vs the costs of continued litigation and possibility of losing and also due to the fact that Khadr's Charter rights were violated according to a Supreme Court ruling. However, most Canadians don't seem to buy those explanations and believe the government should have fought the lawsuit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 21, 2017, 08:08:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 21, 2017, 12:54:11 AM
Canadians, any comments on this, uhm, "news" story? :unsure:
Trudeau refused to defend Canada against this unjust lawsuit.  The Canadian lawyers can evaluate better than me the chances of losing on this one.  He pleaded guilty in a US court, so I don't know if that counts for double jeopardy or if he could have been tried for high treason in Canada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 21, 2017, 09:02:56 AM
Quote from: viper37 on July 21, 2017, 08:08:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 21, 2017, 12:54:11 AM
Canadians, any comments on this, uhm, "news" story? :unsure:
Trudeau refused to defend Canada against this unjust lawsuit.  The Canadian lawyers can evaluate better than me the chances of losing on this one.  He pleaded guilty in a US court, so I don't know if that counts for double jeopardy or if he could have been tried for high treason in Canada.

The concern is an allegation that a confession was basically beaten out of him, that he was underage at the time, and a Canadian citizen. Unfortunately for the government, the Supreme Court found that his rights were indeed violated, with Canadian government collusion.

I have no idea whether his case has merit, not having read the SC decision. It is certainly possible that it does, and that the Lib. position (better to save cash by settling) makes financial sense, even if it doesn't make political sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 21, 2017, 09:45:09 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 21, 2017, 12:54:11 AM
Canadians, any comments on this, uhm, "news" story? :unsure:

Why the scare quotes?  It's been a major story in  the news here.

As a lawyer I feel like I should have all the facts before commenting, and I don't.  But I know instinctively I don't like this payment one bit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 21, 2017, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 21, 2017, 09:02:56 AM
The concern is an allegation that a confession was basically beaten out of him,
It has been proven he was deprived of sleep, it was never proven he was beated by guards or US military/intelligence personnel.
Between the alleged torture and the guilty plea, there were 8-9 years.  He fired his lawyers and pleaded guilty, conditional on being allowed to return to Canada to serve his sentence, and he was almost immediatly freed.

Quote
that he was underage at the time,
There have been cases of minors tried as an adult for serious crimes.

Quoteand a Canadian citizen. Unfortunately for the government, the Supreme Court found that his rights were indeed violated, with Canadian government collusion.
That is a seperate issue, imho.
If, say, a Hell's Angels from Quebec was arrested in the US and beated by cops while in jail, for suspicion of killing a police officer over there, could he claim his rights were denied and be immediatly freed?  Could he claim compensation from the Canadian government because the embassy did not immediatly send him someone?

Quote
I have no idea whether his case has merit, not having read the SC decision. It is certainly possible that it does, and that the Lib. position (better to save cash by settling) makes financial sense, even if it doesn't make political sense.
Personally, I would have preferred to lose money in a trial than pay him out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 11:26:24 AM
QuoteCanada actively participated in a process contrary to its international human rights obligations and contributed to K's ongoing detention so as to deprive him of his right to liberty and security of the person, guaranteed by s. 7  of the Charter , not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice . . . the Charter  applies to the participation of Canadian officials in a regime later found to be in violation of fundamental rights protected by international law.  There is a sufficient connection between the government's participation in the illegal process and the deprivation of K's liberty and security of the person.  While the U.S. is the primary source of the deprivation, it is reasonable to infer from the uncontradicted evidence before the Court that the statements taken by Canadian officials are contributing to K's continued detention.  The deprivation of K's right to liberty and security of the person is not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. 

That's from the unanimous ruling of the Canadian Supreme Court.

Given that ruling, is there any legal defense the government would have to the civil law suit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 21, 2017, 12:55:41 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 11:26:24 AM
QuoteCanada actively participated in a process contrary to its international human rights obligations and contributed to K's ongoing detention so as to deprive him of his right to liberty and security of the person, guaranteed by s. 7  of the Charter , not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice . . . the Charter  applies to the participation of Canadian officials in a regime later found to be in violation of fundamental rights protected by international law.  There is a sufficient connection between the government's participation in the illegal process and the deprivation of K's liberty and security of the person.  While the U.S. is the primary source of the deprivation, it is reasonable to infer from the uncontradicted evidence before the Court that the statements taken by Canadian officials are contributing to K's continued detention.  The deprivation of K's right to liberty and security of the person is not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. 

That's from the unanimous ruling of the Canadian Supreme Court.

Given that ruling, is there any legal defense the government would have to the civil law suit?

Probably not (not that I know all the facts mind).

Put that context together with this:

Quote from: viper37 on July 21, 2017, 10:59:13 AM

Personally, I would have preferred to lose money in a trial than pay him out.

Well, that's exactly why I say the settlement may have made financial sense, but not political sense. The Libs have (and will) take a beating over this, even though looked at strictly as a case, settlement always makes more sense than fighting a hopeless fight.

Part of that beating will be because of how this unfolded - over the summer, with the PM out of the country, and in a confidential settlement whose details were instantly leaked to the press. The impression given was that the Libs wanted to rush this through without anyone noticing ... feeds into the right-wing attack on them (that they care about Muslim terrorists and not about ordinary Canadians).

In the bigger picture, one sad part of this whole sorry affair is just how used we in Canada have gotten to the notion that the US routinely deprives people of their fundamental rights. That sort of thing used to be controversial.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 21, 2017, 04:11:14 PM
I am fine with the payment amount & of doing it before a trial is fine too.

The Martin & Harper governments let a Canadian child be tortured by the US. There's no excuse for that. There is no excuse for it when The Canadian government was doing it to the Native people either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 07:45:59 PM
A private company in the same situation would settle, 100 times out of 100.  Why should the state waste money time and resources on doomed trial just to make a pointless show of a fight? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 21, 2017, 07:46:27 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 07:45:59 PM
A private company in the same situation would settle, 100 times out of 100.  Why should the state waste money time and resources on doomed trial just to make a pointless show of a fight? 

Politics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 07:47:43 PM
Grandstanding
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 22, 2017, 03:12:52 AM
Where they really fucked up was by actually giving him the money. Iirc he lost a civil trial against his victims family in the states. The government should have awarded baby terrorist the cash, then seized it and handed it over to the the American authorities to give it to the families of the soldiers he  attacked.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 22, 2017, 03:16:04 AM
Why? On what grounds?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 22, 2017, 04:43:17 AM
Governments do enforce foreign court's orders from time to time, don't they? Like child support, maybe?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 22, 2017, 06:42:17 AM
Someone I went to high school with shared this on facebook. :wacko:
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245902_2053045158055092_2277769096885886426_n.jpg?oh=0898241b0af40bd8a6d22be910ad70dc&oe=5A04BD1B)

QuoteTHE GUN PARLOR FACEBOOK GIVEAWAY !

Do you want to win a SIG SAUER P938 EXTREME 9mm PISTOL , Holster & Ammo for free from @thegunparlor?

Simply share this post on your own page, Tag 3 of your Friends in the comments section on our original post and then Follow us @thegunparlor on Facebook

We will pick one winner at random on July 31st 2017 .

Winner must be 21 years or older and licensed in their state if required by law , We will only ship to your local FFL (winner is responsible to pay transfer fee from their local FFL) . If you win & are a Massachusetts resident you can pick up at our store make sure to have your LTC. Employees and Family of The Gun Parlor and The Gun Parlor Range are not eligible to win.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 22, 2017, 11:03:36 PM
Nice

However, single action trigger=poo
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 22, 2017, 11:28:20 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 21, 2017, 04:11:14 PM
The Martin & Harper governments let a Canadian child be tortured by the US. There's no excuse for that. There is no excuse for it when The Canadian government was doing it to the Native people either.
The Harper government did not let a Canadian child be tortured by the US.  The Harper government let a war prisoner who fought against Canada's allies whill still having a a Canadian passport sit in his jail cell in the US by refusing to allow him back to the country.  The presumed torture happenned before Harper was first elected.

Do you think Canada should have pleaded with Russia for them to return Canadian Waffen SS prisoners immediatly after WWII?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 22, 2017, 11:31:38 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 07:45:59 PM
A private company in the same situation would settle, 100 times out of 100.
If that were the case, there would never be trials.

Quote
Why should the state waste money time and resources on doomed trial just to make a pointless show of a fight? 
To show the public where the problem lies: with judges that do not understand the terrorism threat.  It's not like it's never been talked about.  Sharkaoui is a free man, and many of his students went to fight abroad for ISIS.

Grey Fox, should we send a rescue mission to get them back?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 23, 2017, 01:49:48 AM
That had little to do with terrorism, and a lot to do about rule of law.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 23, 2017, 07:49:34 AM
Oh Canada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2017, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 22, 2017, 11:03:36 PM
Nice

However, single action trigger=poo

It was good enough for Wyatt Earp, you Bundy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 23, 2017, 12:09:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 22, 2017, 11:31:38 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 07:45:59 PM
A private company in the same situation would settle, 100 times out of 100.
If that were the case, there would never be trials.

Quote
Why should the state waste money time and resources on doomed trial just to make a pointless show of a fight? 
To show the public where the problem lies: with judges that do not understand the terrorism threat.  It's not like it's never been talked about.  Sharkaoui is a free man, and many of his students went to fight abroad for ISIS.

Grey Fox, should we send a rescue mission to get them back?

No, a rescue mission to try to extract adults from ISIS is not the same as asking the US government to release a child from cheating-the-law-American prison.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 23, 2017, 12:09:59 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 22, 2017, 11:28:20 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 21, 2017, 04:11:14 PM
The Martin & Harper governments let a Canadian child be tortured by the US. There's no excuse for that. There is no excuse for it when The Canadian government was doing it to the Native people either.
The Harper government did not let a Canadian child be tortured by the US.  The Harper government let a war prisoner who fought against Canada's allies whill still having a a Canadian passport sit in his jail cell in the US by refusing to allow him back to the country.  The presumed torture happenned before Harper was first elected.

Do you think Canada should have pleaded with Russia for them to return Canadian Waffen SS prisoners immediatly after WWII?

Were any of the Canadian Waffen SS prisoners kids?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 23, 2017, 03:38:53 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 23, 2017, 12:09:59 PM
Were any of the Canadian Waffen SS prisoners kids?

Yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 23, 2017, 05:05:46 PM
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20292790_10155614931741800_3606931532567193077_n.jpg?oh=4fadcee930fc1b32cf0c0821ffd69bb2&oe=59F6B141)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 23, 2017, 05:16:51 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 23, 2017, 12:09:59 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 22, 2017, 11:28:20 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 21, 2017, 04:11:14 PM
The Martin & Harper governments let a Canadian child be tortured by the US. There's no excuse for that. There is no excuse for it when The Canadian government was doing it to the Native people either.
The Harper government did not let a Canadian child be tortured by the US.  The Harper government let a war prisoner who fought against Canada's allies whill still having a a Canadian passport sit in his jail cell in the US by refusing to allow him back to the country.  The presumed torture happenned before Harper was first elected.

Do you think Canada should have pleaded with Russia for them to return Canadian Waffen SS prisoners immediatly after WWII?

Were any of the Canadian Waffen SS prisoners kids?
he wasn't a kid, he was 15.  If he didn't understood at 15 that it was wrong to kill people, he will never understand.  And so far, he has not shown he understands it either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 23, 2017, 07:57:51 PM
This is the basis of the disagreement. 15 years old are not adults & should not be treated as such.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2017, 08:16:31 PM
But she looked 16.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on July 23, 2017, 08:17:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 23, 2017, 08:16:31 PM
But she looked 16.

I CHECKED HER ID
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 24, 2017, 07:46:35 AM
We even exchanged DNA samples.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 24, 2017, 08:42:17 AM
Quote from: viper37 on July 22, 2017, 11:31:38 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 07:45:59 PM
A private company in the same situation would settle, 100 times out of 100.
If that were the case, there would never be trials.

The vast majority of cases never get to trial. Most settle. Particularly where the facts are one-sided, it makes sense (plus in Canada, depending on province, our costs rules seriously encourage it).

I don't know all the facts, but that this is a case that ought to have been settled seems pretty credible to me.

If so, fighting a hopeless battle would be a purely political move, and a waste of (your tax) cash.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 24, 2017, 08:45:49 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 07:45:59 PM
A private company in the same situation would settle, 100 times out of 100.  Why should the state waste money time and resources on doomed trial just to make a pointless show of a fight?

Because a lot of voters feel as Viper feels. They would feel better about a government that fights a (legally pointless) fight, than one that settles.

Knowing this, the government attempted to bury the story; and that very attempt made it a bigger story.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 24, 2017, 08:48:50 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245981_10155756051683254_7539091439273099012_n.jpg?oh=5680c08016e56cbcda82a39f6439b03c&oe=5A08E41A)

Just a reminder from the mother church for you heathen pervs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 24, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 24, 2017, 08:48:50 AM


Just a reminder from the mother church for you heathen pervs.

If Jesus watches wanking folks without their permission, who exactly is the perv?  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 24, 2017, 08:53:39 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 24, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 24, 2017, 08:48:50 AM


Just a reminder from the mother church for you heathen pervs.

If Jesus watches wanking folks without their permission, who exactly is the perv?  :P

Malthus for creating this scenario. :pope:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 24, 2017, 09:27:14 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 24, 2017, 08:53:39 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 24, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 24, 2017, 08:48:50 AM


Just a reminder from the mother church for you heathen pervs.

If Jesus watches wanking folks without their permission, who exactly is the perv?  :P

Malthus for creating this scenario. :pope:

I'm comfortable with that.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 24, 2017, 10:11:14 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 24, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 24, 2017, 08:48:50 AM


Just a reminder from the mother church for you heathen pervs.

If Jesus watches wanking folks without their permission, who exactly is the perv?  :P


It's in the EULA.  Most babies don't even read it before they are born, they just click yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 24, 2017, 11:43:58 AM
Quote from: viper37 on July 22, 2017, 11:31:38 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2017, 07:45:59 PM
A private company in the same situation would settle, 100 times out of 100.
If that were the case, there would never be trials.

?
It's quite rare to have to defend a civil case where the country's highest court has already ruled against your defenses.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 24, 2017, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 22, 2017, 04:43:17 AM
Governments do enforce foreign court's orders from time to time, don't they? Like child support, maybe?  :hmm:

Sure on application and typically with notice to the other side.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 24, 2017, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: viper37 on July 22, 2017, 11:31:38 PM
To show the public where the problem lies: with judges that do not understand the terrorism threat.

The public already has a hard time understanding the function of the judiciary, a problem that affects both our countries, and for that matter, most countries with rule of law and an independent judiciary (think of the UK judges branded as traitors for ruling in favor of parliamentary sovereignty).  I don't think its useful to make that problem worse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on July 26, 2017, 11:05:31 AM
Strangely, based on my Facebook feed, Evo Morales (President of Bolivia) seems to have become a hero to libertarians:

Bolivia's President Declares 'Total Independence' from World Bank and IMF (http://undergroundjournalist.com/2017/07/25/bolivias-president-declares-total-independence-world-bank-imf/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=postplanner&utm_source=facebook.com)

Bolivarian socialism in a country whose principle export is oil and is led by a caudillo.  What could possibly go wrong? 

(These very same people pillory Maduro and the situation in Venezuela as the failure of socialism.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 26, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 26, 2017, 11:05:31 AM
Strangely, based on my Facebook feed, Evo Morales (President of Bolivia) seems to have become a hero to libertarians:

Bolivia's President Declares 'Total Independence' from World Bank and IMF (http://undergroundjournalist.com/2017/07/25/bolivias-president-declares-total-independence-world-bank-imf/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=postplanner&utm_source=facebook.com)

Bolivarian socialism in a country whose principle export is oil and is led by a caudillo.  What could possibly go wrong? 

(These very same people pillory Maduro and the situation in Venezuela as the failure of socialism.)

My only guess is that people forgot who he was, or never knew.  Or maybe they're just falling for Evo's good looks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 26, 2017, 11:12:53 AM
Libertarians just really dislike the Cabal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 26, 2017, 11:26:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
My only guess is that people forgot who he was, or never knew.  Or maybe they're just falling for Evo's good looks.

Colonel Lando Calrissiano
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 26, 2017, 11:33:31 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 26, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 26, 2017, 11:05:31 AM
Strangely, based on my Facebook feed, Evo Morales (President of Bolivia) seems to have become a hero to libertarians:

Bolivia's President Declares 'Total Independence' from World Bank and IMF (http://undergroundjournalist.com/2017/07/25/bolivias-president-declares-total-independence-world-bank-imf/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=postplanner&utm_source=facebook.com)

Bolivarian socialism in a country whose principle export is oil and is led by a caudillo.  What could possibly go wrong? 

(These very same people pillory Maduro and the situation in Venezuela as the failure of socialism.)

My only guess is that people forgot who he was, or never knew.  Or maybe they're just falling for Evo's good looks.

Last I checked Bolivia was still a member of the IMF.  So for that matter is Venezuela.
Nothing prevents a signatory from withdrawing.  Want independence from the IMF? Simple:

QuoteAny member may withdraw from the Fund at any time by transmitting a notice in writing to the Fund at its principal office. Withdrawal shall become effective on the date such notice is received.

So Evo - put your pen where your mouth is and send the notice.
Otherwise STFU about "independence"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 26, 2017, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 26, 2017, 11:05:31 AM
Strangely, based on my Facebook feed, Evo Morales (President of Bolivia) seems to have become a hero to libertarians:

Bolivia's President Declares 'Total Independence' from World Bank and IMF (http://undergroundjournalist.com/2017/07/25/bolivias-president-declares-total-independence-world-bank-imf/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=postplanner&utm_source=facebook.com)

Bolivarian socialism in a country whose principle export is oil and is led by a caudillo.  What could possibly go wrong? 

(These very same people pillory Maduro and the situation in Venezuela as the failure of socialism.)


A great deal of the Alt-right seems to have come from libertarians and anarcho-Capitalists, so I don't think personal liberty seems to be a major factor in those ideologies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on July 26, 2017, 12:48:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 26, 2017, 12:40:57 PM
A great deal of the Alt-right seems to have come from libertarians and anarcho-Capitalists, so I don't think personal liberty seems to be a major factor in those ideologies.

Okay, but Morales has nationalized the oil and natural gas industries (among other things).  That should be anathema to libertarians or anarcho-capitalists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on July 26, 2017, 01:06:31 PM
 putting the globalists jews in their place is much more important than who might have "nationalized"  something something in a country fill of brown people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 26, 2017, 01:16:36 PM
Quote from: sbr on July 26, 2017, 01:06:31 PM
putting the globalists jews in their place is much more important than who might have "nationalized"  something something in a country fill of brown people.

Yep. Extreme nationalism infects those groups...which is weird. They seem to either not know what Libertarianism actually is or they don't care.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 26, 2017, 03:25:19 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 26, 2017, 12:48:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 26, 2017, 12:40:57 PM
A great deal of the Alt-right seems to have come from libertarians and anarcho-Capitalists, so I don't think personal liberty seems to be a major factor in those ideologies.

Okay, but Morales has nationalized the oil and natural gas industries (among other things).  That should be anathema to libertarians or anarcho-capitalists.


Should be, but I don't think those things are actually important to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 26, 2017, 04:48:38 PM
Quote from: sbr on July 26, 2017, 01:06:31 PM
putting the globalists jews in their place is much more important than who might have "nationalized"  something something in a country fill of brown people.

Okay... sure

(backs away, then turns around and runs as fast as he can)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 26, 2017, 09:08:43 PM
Grumbler could be the voice of reason, but instead runs away.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 26, 2017, 09:15:58 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 26, 2017, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 26, 2017, 11:05:31 AM
Strangely, based on my Facebook feed, Evo Morales (President of Bolivia) seems to have become a hero to libertarians:

Bolivia's President Declares 'Total Independence' from World Bank and IMF (http://undergroundjournalist.com/2017/07/25/bolivias-president-declares-total-independence-world-bank-imf/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=postplanner&utm_source=facebook.com)

Bolivarian socialism in a country whose principle export is oil and is led by a caudillo.  What could possibly go wrong? 

(These very same people pillory Maduro and the situation in Venezuela as the failure of socialism.)
A great deal of the Alt-right seems to have come from libertarians and anarcho-Capitalists, so I don't think personal liberty seems to be a major factor in those ideologies.
:yes: There is a lot of Orwellian perversion of language among the authoritarian right.  It's almost gotten to a point where "freedom" and "liberty" can be safely interpreted as euphemisms for oppression and discrimination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 26, 2017, 10:36:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 26, 2017, 09:08:43 PM
Grumbler could be the voice of reason, but instead runs away.  :(

I always run away from people who talk about putting "Jews in their place."  I am running away to get my gun, but don't want to stick around in a situation where the bullets are only going to fly towards me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 26, 2017, 10:39:53 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2017, 09:15:58 PM
:yes: There is a lot of Orwellian perversion of language among the authoritarian right.  It's almost gotten to a point where "freedom" and "liberty" can be safely interpreted as euphemisms for oppression and discrimination.

:yes: There is an enormous amount of convergence between the authoritarian left that Orwell wrote about and the authoritarian right.  You sound like you are surprised to find that out, even given that you partially grew up under an authoritarian-left regime.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 26, 2017, 11:41:53 PM
Quote from: sbr on July 26, 2017, 01:06:31 PM
putting the globalists jews in their place is much more important than who might have "nationalized"  something something in a country fill of brown people.
:secret: You're supposed to cross out the real word, not the euphemism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 27, 2017, 10:38:06 AM
Spellus keeping us up to date with all the latest Byzanteen happenings:

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20287029_3964011535815_7733230720043483117_o.jpg?oh=6842e32112629fbec108e0aa6417b561&oe=59F7E125)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 27, 2017, 10:15:14 PM
They missed a translation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2017, 12:56:47 AM
http://militarypartners.org/sign-the-petition-to-president-trump-support-our-transgender-service-members/

QuoteSign our petition to President Trump:

"As patriotic Americans, we are deeply alarmed and outraged by your tweets indicating you are going to kick out the thousands of brave transgender service members currently serving our nation. These men and women are risking their lives for our nation around the globe, and they deserve our support and respect.

Instead of targeting them for discrimination and kicking them out of the military, it's crucially important you stand up for them and stop these attacks. They need a commander in chief who has their backs."

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 28, 2017, 01:00:40 AM
Is this actually shared by your sisters?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2017, 01:02:03 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 28, 2017, 01:00:40 AM
Is this actually shared by your sisters?

By my oldest, yes. She has 3 LGBT kids (2 in the service, one preparing to be), so it's not much of a surprise. My other sister thinks transgenders are sick perverts and pedophiles who should be treated and/or jailed, not encouraged.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 28, 2017, 09:06:59 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 28, 2017, 01:02:03 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 28, 2017, 01:00:40 AM
Is this actually shared by your sisters?

By my oldest, yes. She has 3 LGBT kids (2 in the service, one preparing to be), so it's not much of a surprise. My other sister thinks transgenders are sick perverts and pedophiles who should be treated and/or jailed, not encouraged.

Your family gatherings must be a hoot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 28, 2017, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 26, 2017, 10:39:53 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 26, 2017, 09:15:58 PM
:yes: There is a lot of Orwellian perversion of language among the authoritarian right.  It's almost gotten to a point where "freedom" and "liberty" can be safely interpreted as euphemisms for oppression and discrimination.

:yes: There is an enormous amount of convergence between the authoritarian left that Orwell wrote about and the authoritarian right.  You sound like you are surprised to find that out, even given that you partially grew up under an authoritarian-left regime.

My favorite leftist euphemism/doublespeak/whatever in recent years is when they call for a "national conversation" on various subjects.  Which always seems to mean "shut up and let me tell you want to think".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 28, 2017, 11:50:34 AM
Of course because what you think, before we tell you what to, is racist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 28, 2017, 12:06:31 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 28, 2017, 11:50:34 AM
Of course because what you think, before we tell you what to, is racist.

Apparently :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on July 28, 2017, 07:52:13 PM
What a teachable moment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 28, 2017, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 28, 2017, 11:49:03 AM
My favorite leftist euphemism/doublespeak/whatever in recent years is when they call for a "national conversation" on various subjects.  Which always seems to mean "shut up and let me tell you want to think".

You hate niggers, derniggerhater.  So there's really nothing to discuss.  Shitbag.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 28, 2017, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 28, 2017, 01:02:03 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 28, 2017, 01:00:40 AM
Is this actually shared by your sisters?

By my oldest, yes. She has 3 LGBT kids (2 in the service, one preparing to be), so it's not much of a surprise. My other sister thinks transgenders are sick perverts and pedophiles who should be treated and/or jailed, not encouraged.
can you invite me to your next family party?  It must be a lot funnier than Languish :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 28, 2017, 11:21:03 PM
He doesn't see them. Never even been to Pittsburgh.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 30, 2017, 01:49:48 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20258045_1746826752018519_8841500824707419872_n.jpg?oh=2f06183324031b5732ef83ca4e7ff34a&oe=59F5B064)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20431502_1448036718597076_8473883901810007408_n.jpg?oh=6a76d1201c841685b5608b47088f924d&oe=59F54366)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 30, 2017, 12:22:13 PM
I'm sure, what with growing up with them and all, you've grown attached to them, Syt--but that whole side of your family just needs to collectively expire in a single-vehicle car accident. 
Doesn't even have to be violent.  Just forget to open the garage door after starting the engine or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 30, 2017, 12:29:45 PM
I'm sure the kids are fine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malicious Intent on July 31, 2017, 10:59:46 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2017, 12:29:45 PM
I'm sure the kids are fine.

Let's better not take any risks.

Maybe Languish should collect money for some "professional help".  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 31, 2017, 11:21:14 AM
Quote from: Malicious Intent on July 31, 2017, 10:59:46 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2017, 12:29:45 PM
I'm sure the kids are fine.

Let's better not take any risks.

Maybe Languish should collect money for some "professional help".  :ph34r:

I'm sure we can figure out more sensible ways to spend our monies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 31, 2017, 01:38:06 PM
(https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20526060_10210232308992657_9040024321585026013_n.jpg?oh=0d2349ae94c11d07379a2c3ca87e2d29&oe=59FB2488)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2017, 12:45:49 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20621991_800534396782925_4902344853081941288_n.jpg?oh=f4ef37704f5bd6a63f79156e8140e93c&oe=59F9464B)

https://politicalcowboy.com/boy-girl-ding-dings-tooties-dont-matter-anymore/

QuoteBoy or Girl? Ding Dings and Tooties Don't Matter Anymore!

As I sit here naked on this folding chair furiously typing away at the computer keyboard in my office I consider how wonderful the differences are between men and women.  Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina.  I learned that when I was 4 years old.  The knowledge stuck.

Okay...get your head out of the gutter. I'm not typing naked. I've never been naked a day in my life.

But alas, there are those that want to confuse the issue of gender.  Once upon a time, in the good old days, dad would burst into the delivery waiting room with a handful of cigars and shout "IT'S A BOY/GIRL!" You know how dad knew what his wife had given birth to? He saw it...or at least the doctor did first, and announced it.  "Hey buddy you've got a straight," or maybe even a "split." Your new announcement, dad, "It's an it!!!"

As a father of 5 with three girls and two boys we have always known what's up.  We heard it shouted all around our house constantly! Boys have ding dings and girls have tooties.  Well alrighty then.  Sounds like science to me.  Case closed.

But not anymore. Political correctness and sensitivity in today's genderphobic culture forbid such barbaric announcements. In fact, many parents these days are being encouraged to make no distinctions at all between boys and girls until the child is old enough to reveal it. They even suggest throwing a Reveal Party for your child so they can tell you, the neighbors, their shocked grandparents, and their friends what they want to be for the rest of their lives. "I'm a panda!"

Wait...is that not an option?

The "experts" are now saying that genitalia is no longer a sign of whether a person is a boy or a girl.  It makes no difference if the ultrasound of your unborn child shows a hot dog or a cheeseburger you must wait until your child is old enough to tell you "itself" what it feels like being.

Some may call that sensitivity.  I on the other hand have another word for it: Stupidity.

Planned Parenthood (Hang on a second.  I usually spit after I say those two words together.) has now released new information on their website saying that when children point to their genitals and ask "what's that?" or even "why is mine different from hers?" for example that you should use it as an opportunity to discuss transgenderism and gender stereotypes.  Forget biology and anatomy.  How does little Johnny feel about his penis? Makes perfect sense doesn't it?  According to them the definitions of gender has changed.

I guess when you're an organization that makes its money off the mass murder of millions upon millions of unborn babies and call it "women's healthcare," you can simply redefine anything you want.

And if you don't believe that this much ridiculousness exists well then read it here on their own page.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 05, 2017, 02:18:58 AM
The point of that long diatribe was to swipe at PP?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 05, 2017, 03:01:34 AM
My niece went through a long phase where she was a doggy.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 05, 2017, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 05, 2017, 12:45:49 AM
Planned Parenthood (Hang on a second.  I usually spit after I say those two words together.) has now released new information on their website saying that when children point to their genitals and ask "what's that?" or even "why is mine different from hers?" for example that you should use it as an opportunity to discuss transgenderism and gender stereotypes.  Forget biology and anatomy.  How does little Johnny feel about his penis? Makes perfect sense doesn't it?  According to them the definitions of gender has changed.

That wasn't in this week's newsletter.  :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 05, 2017, 12:05:47 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 05, 2017, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 05, 2017, 12:45:49 AM
Planned Parenthood (Hang on a second.  I usually spit after I say those two words together.) has now released new information on their website saying that when children point to their genitals and ask "what's that?" or even "why is mine different from hers?" for example that you should use it as an opportunity to discuss transgenderism and gender stereotypes.  Forget biology and anatomy.  How does little Johnny feel about his penis? Makes perfect sense doesn't it?  According to them the definitions of gender has changed.

That wasn't in this week's newsletter.  :mellow:
shh.  don't let facts interrupt a good narrative.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on August 05, 2017, 02:48:43 PM
Probably getting it from this:  http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/04/planned-parenthood-wants-to-preschoolers-to-know-gender-and-sex-arent-same.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 05, 2017, 05:02:23 PM
Quote from: Camerus on August 05, 2017, 02:48:43 PM
Probably getting it from this:  http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/04/planned-parenthood-wants-to-preschoolers-to-know-gender-and-sex-arent-same.html

That story (and the quotes from "experts") are completely misleading about the advice PP is giving.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on August 05, 2017, 05:27:59 PM
Yeah. Just Fox News outrage bait.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 09, 2017, 03:02:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/AGk4VY3.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on August 10, 2017, 03:14:02 PM
He does have luxury condos in Seoul:  Trump World Seoul (http://www.trump.com/real-estate-portfolio/seoul/trump-world/).

I'd feel better if he had luxury condos in Pyongyang.   ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on August 10, 2017, 07:21:28 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FlIuLT0z.jpg&hash=5ed506fd65b6fb21c28a8b668c83305e53c7c0e7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 10, 2017, 08:05:18 PM
And people made fun of Trump with his own hair.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2017, 03:32:13 PM
My sister shared this from her husband:

https://www.change.org/p/abc-lets-fire-channing-dungey-she-cancelled-last-man-standing-because-she-hates-trump/fbog/70997879

QuoteLets fire Channing Dungey...She cancelled Last Man Standing because she hates "TRUMP"

Earlier this year, Channing Dungey from "ABC" cancelled Last Man Standing based upon her political beliefs and has taken away the rights of citizens to have the freedom to choose what entertainment to watch or not. She is allowed to have her own beliefs in today's world, but not to control what citizens use as entertainment at end of a hard days work. Please join my group and get our point across that she made a very large mistake and upset a large group of people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2017, 03:32:45 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20728253_1769264459769364_6851669045509057074_n.jpg?oh=b4dee7a98d73cc2863b0f8dfcdfc127b&oe=5A25EE9A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 12, 2017, 03:34:27 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 12, 2017, 03:32:13 PM
My sister shared this from her husband:

https://www.change.org/p/abc-lets-fire-channing-dungey-she-cancelled-last-man-standing-because-she-hates-trump/fbog/70997879

QuoteLets fire Channing Dungey...She cancelled Last Man Standing because she hates "TRUMP"

Earlier this year, Channing Dungey from "ABC" cancelled Last Man Standing based upon her political beliefs and has taken away the rights of citizens to have the freedom to choose what entertainment to watch or not. She is allowed to have her own beliefs in today's world, but not to control what citizens use as entertainment at end of a hard days work. Please join my group and get our point across that she made a very large mistake and upset a large group of people.

Fundamental right to television shows that we enjoy!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2017, 03:41:18 PM
Quotethe rights of citizens to have the freedom to choose what entertainment to watch or not. She is allowed to have her own beliefs in today's world, but not to control what citizens use as entertainment at end of a hard days work.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2017, 03:50:13 PM
It is almost like in the private sector management has arbitrary power  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 12, 2017, 04:05:17 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 12, 2017, 03:32:45 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20728253_1769264459769364_6851669045509057074_n.jpg?oh=b4dee7a98d73cc2863b0f8dfcdfc127b&oe=5A25EE9A)

Dang, it's like what you'd expect if a Southerner was given English lessons from Timmay, except with better spelling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2017, 05:46:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 12, 2017, 03:32:13 PM
My sister shared this from her husband:

https://www.change.org/p/abc-lets-fire-channing-dungey-she-cancelled-last-man-standing-because-she-hates-trump/fbog/70997879

QuoteLets fire Channing Dungey...She cancelled Last Man Standing because she hates "TRUMP"

Earlier this year, Channing Dungey from "ABC" cancelled Last Man Standing based upon her political beliefs and has taken away the rights of citizens to have the freedom to choose what entertainment to watch or not. She is allowed to have her own beliefs in today's world, but not to control what citizens use as entertainment at end of a hard days work. Please join my group and get our point across that she made a very large mistake and upset a large group of people.

So we can count on their support when the Trump Administration's FCC rolls back Net Neutrality rules?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 12, 2017, 11:28:06 PM
Quote from: dps on August 12, 2017, 04:05:17 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 12, 2017, 03:32:45 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20728253_1769264459769364_6851669045509057074_n.jpg?oh=b4dee7a98d73cc2863b0f8dfcdfc127b&oe=5A25EE9A)

Dang, it's like what you'd expect if a Southerner was given English lessons from Timmay, except with better spelling.

It's a tough school that has formation for the third grade at 0630 in the morning.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 13, 2017, 06:48:09 AM
Guest post from my niece this time.

http://theamericanbacon.com/welfare-pissed-president-trump-requiring-welfare-work-free-ride-ending/

QuoteWELFARE PISSED AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP REQUIRING "WELFARE-TO-WORK." – THE FREE RIDE IS ENDING

President Donald Trump's 2018 budget will save $190 billion over the next ten years by requiring able-bodied adults to work to receive food stamps.

President Trump wrote in his letter to Congress, "We must reform our welfare system so that it does not discourage able-bodied adults from working, which takes away scarce resources from those in real need. Work must be the center of our social policy."

White House budget director Mick Mulvaney said at a press conference, "If you're on food stamps and you're able-bodied, then we need you to go to work."

The number of recipients on food stamps skyrocketed recently, 50 million Americans now receive food stamps and use Electronic Benefits Transfer (EBT) cards at grocery or convenience store to buy food and drinks. The 50 million citizens on food stamps amount to 15 percent of the population, a substantial increase from the 17 million Americans who received food stamps in 2000.

Food stamps, officially known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), cost taxpayers more than $83 billion a year. The government remains unable to rein in costs, because the government does not have statistics as to how much food stamp recipients spend on kitchen staples such as meat and vegetables, compared to soda, candy, and potato chips.

A 2011 study confirmed that food stamp recipients spend more money on candy compared to any other food item.

Robert Rector, a welfare expert at the Heritage Foundation, said that requiring work for food stamps was at the "core" of welfare reform in the 1990s. President Trump is "picking the gauntlet off the ground where the Republican party dropped it."

Trump's budget would require states to fund one dollar for every four dollars the federal government spends on food stamps.

Rector said,

"It's like Chinese funeral money. They just burn it."

Many states have work requirements for food stamps. However, the Obama administration granted states waivers during the recession, and many states continue to use waivers for the food stamp requirements.

In 2014, Maine dropped its waiver for work requirements, and required everyone who could work and did not have dependents to either get employment for at least 20 hours a week, enter job-training programs, or volunteer a minimum of 24 hours a month.

Before Maine dropped its waiver in 2014, there were 13,332 food stamp recipients. By March 2015, the number of food stamp recipients dropped by 80 percent, to 2,678 recipients who decided to get a job, participate in job training, or volunteer. Roughly 9,000 people dropped out of the program, leading many analysts to observe that many of those food stamp recipients worked off the books and used food stamps to save money for other expenses. Others stipulated that many became so dependent on government welfare that they could not volunteer 24 hours a month, or roughly one hour of work per day.

Some studies estimate that 4.7 million Americans receive food stamps who are able-bodied, not elderly, and do not have children or dependents. Requiring work for food stamps would save the country $8.4 billion every year.

"We are no longer going to measure compassion by the number of people on these programs," Mulvaney said. "We're going to measure compassion by how many people we can get off these programs."

President Donald Trump said during his inauguration speech,

"We will get our people off of welfare and back to work – rebuilding our country with American hands and American labor."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2017, 06:53:50 AM
So much anger about welfare.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 13, 2017, 09:12:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 06:53:50 AM
So much anger about welfare.

Only when those dirty niggers are involved.  When it's white people, it's "assistance."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 13, 2017, 09:48:16 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 13, 2017, 09:12:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 06:53:50 AM
So much anger about welfare.

Only when those dirty niggers are involved.  When it's white people, it's "assistance."

Eh, there's plenty of folks who resent giving money to other white people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2017, 09:53:41 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 13, 2017, 09:48:16 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 13, 2017, 09:12:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 06:53:50 AM
So much anger about welfare.

Only when those dirty niggers are involved.  When it's white people, it's "assistance."

Eh, there's plenty of folks who resent giving money to other white people.

True but they are actually wealthy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 13, 2017, 10:02:48 AM
Nah, they just have to be wealthy enough to perceive the government is taking more from them than it's giving in return. People are naturally greedy bastards.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2017, 10:06:47 AM
Maybe your people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 13, 2017, 10:31:38 AM
"Actual wealthy" people who resent taxes are even greedier.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2017, 10:35:00 AM
Of course, they also have more money on the line.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 13, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 13, 2017, 09:48:16 AM
Eh, there's plenty of folks who resent giving money to other white people.

They don't riot over it.  They don't actively attempt to take away their vote.  They don't lynch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 13, 2017, 11:04:43 AM
Who's been rioting over welfare?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 13, 2017, 12:08:26 PM
You know it as GOP legislation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 13, 2017, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 13, 2017, 06:48:09 AM
Guest post from my niece this time.

Again I thought Welfare pretty much went away in the 1990s. Ah well.

I wonder why so many clickbait articles are always bit on the schadenfreude. Somebody is always 'pissed' or screwed over somehow even when it is actually not a big deal at all.

Edit: The article is not about welfare at all it is about Food Stamps. I forgot that food stamps are the new thing to whip the masses into an outrage about. So why did they use 'welfare' when they were discussing food stamps?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 13, 2017, 03:46:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2017, 03:09:06 PM
I forgot that food stamps are the new thing to whip the masses into an outrage about. So why did they use 'welfare' when they were discussing food stamps?

Because, as CdM said, it can only be the same thing if it targets the same people. Welfare = black people. No one within the target audience who heard Reagan's "Welfare Queen" imagined a white woman. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 13, 2017, 04:02:11 PM
Black royalty in America? Life isn't a comedy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 13, 2017, 04:12:38 PM
Eddie Murphy has many roles to play though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 13, 2017, 04:19:52 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 13, 2017, 04:02:11 PM
Black royalty in America? Life isn't a comedy.

Only the second time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 14, 2017, 12:08:41 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20881885_1390871317701015_8136426121214432349_n.jpg?oh=72fd218079788e3761ce61abb9538192&oe=59EDB0F0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 14, 2017, 12:23:59 PM
Oh, they're tiki torches.  That makes a lot more sense than Wiki torches.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 14, 2017, 12:26:54 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 14, 2017, 12:23:59 PM
Oh, they're tiki torches.  That makes a lot more sense than Wiki torches.

"But if we fail, then the whole world ... will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister ... by the lights of perverted Internet references."

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2017, 01:30:04 PM
I am just sad no mosquitoes were able to sting any of the Lettowists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 14, 2017, 01:39:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2017, 01:30:04 PM
I am just sad no mosquitoes were able to sting any of the Lettowists.

Who ever thought that the Nazi revolt would smell like Citronella?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 14, 2017, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2017, 01:30:04 PM
I am just sad no mosquitoes were able to sting any of the Lettowists.

It's just not Freedom without 50¢ Jell-O Shooters Night.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 14, 2017, 05:32:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 14, 2017, 01:39:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2017, 01:30:04 PM
I am just sad no mosquitoes were able to sting any of the Lettowists.

Who ever thought that the Nazi revolt would smell like Citronella?

Citronella smells like crap so it's not that much of a stretch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 15, 2017, 07:52:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20840687_637551506584859_8692558547358601592_n.jpg?oh=d0935e288d7f7ee2c7520ae85e85b418&oe=59F2A2BD)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 15, 2017, 01:38:37 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FymJNJ9t.jpg&hash=fef4294a3940e13b4aabafe7819880310fb53a8d)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 15, 2017, 01:46:23 PM
The criminal can serve his sentence and rejoin society. The heretic can repent and be absolved in death. The traitor however can find no peace in this world or the next. There is nothing as abhorrent in all the universe as a traitor.

They should have hanged Lee. To discourage the others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 15, 2017, 01:47:44 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 15, 2017, 02:24:17 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FEm4tSee.jpg&hash=b7ba38779e0d1a523b767a929fb1e8cf9c849349)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 15, 2017, 05:36:44 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 15, 2017, 01:46:23 PM


They should have hanged Lee. To discourage the others.

They should have hanged everyone who served in the Confederate armed forces, or in civilian positions in the Confederate government
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 15, 2017, 06:08:54 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FAjeXJwC.jpg&hash=ef97c1483664b337d530d7c519e9f0ec5300faf8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on August 15, 2017, 08:19:34 PM
Not enough weaponized autism in that pic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 15, 2017, 08:21:52 PM
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic3230026.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on August 15, 2017, 08:24:47 PM
Better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 15, 2017, 11:39:10 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20770217_637658316574178_7240954229967357190_n.jpg?oh=c1da701e300f79cd36cc82e80f5d6288&oe=5A1DA5B8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2017, 11:55:34 PM
Is that Durham? Because they were arrested.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2017, 04:50:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20799489_1578416132189360_8107102135677629501_n.jpg?oh=1bb30bb786e65a8dc73a70065dba03a1&oe=59EC5C61)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 16, 2017, 04:52:26 AM
OMG THE IRONY  :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 16, 2017, 04:55:49 AM
Oh my.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2017, 05:00:21 AM
I thought about posting a picture of a Confederate flag/statue and "Agreed."

But then I try not to engage with my family these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 16, 2017, 11:57:52 AM
Don't ever defriend them on Facebook. This is hilarious stuff. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 16, 2017, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: Zanza on August 16, 2017, 11:57:52 AM
Don't ever defriend them on Facebook. This is hilarious stuff. :)

It sure is informative about the depths of the abyss.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 16, 2017, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 16, 2017, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: Zanza on August 16, 2017, 11:57:52 AM
Don't ever defriend them on Facebook. This is hilarious stuff. :)

It sure is informative about the depths of the abyss.

:huh:

The last word I'd associate with the kind of bumper sticker memes in this thread is depth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on August 16, 2017, 12:43:54 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 16, 2017, 12:16:09 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 16, 2017, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: Zanza on August 16, 2017, 11:57:52 AM
Don't ever defriend them on Facebook. This is hilarious stuff. :)

It sure is informative about the depths of the abyss.

:huh:

The last word I'd associate with the kind of bumper sticker memes in this thread is depth.

Yeah it's more like frothy, bad smelling scum floating on the surface of American democracy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 16, 2017, 01:54:02 PM
In the "surely this is just a wacky conspiracy theory" territory.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHU5fiqXsAAl819.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHVG5HIWsAAzdn_.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 16, 2017, 01:58:25 PM
Are those the same officers who didn't protect a synagogue?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 16, 2017, 02:03:59 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 16, 2017, 01:58:25 PM
Are those the same officers who didn't protect a synagogue?

What do you think?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 16, 2017, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 16, 2017, 02:03:59 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 16, 2017, 01:58:25 PM
Are those the same officers who didn't protect a synagogue?

What do you think?

I don't know how big Charlottesville PD is so I wouldn't dare a guess (if in fact the cousins exist at all). Both Nazis and anti-Nazis could think that they gain by painting a picture of a well-oiled machine preparing for bigger stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 16, 2017, 04:15:32 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 16, 2017, 01:54:02 PM
In the "surely this is just a wacky conspiracy theory" territory.
the second part, surely.

no doubt they are flexing their muscles and testing the authorities reaction.  Next time will be bigger, for sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 17, 2017, 04:38:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qDO1KfK.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 17, 2017, 05:19:42 PM
The Caliga vote manifests!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on August 17, 2017, 06:49:48 PM
I don't know what kind of voodoo magics garbon uses to link/embed tweets the way he does.

This might be the worst take of all time, courtesy of Geraldo Rivera

https://twitter.com/GeraldoRivera/status/898039806382440448

QuoteGeraldo Rivera‏Verified account
@GeraldoRivera
Follow
More
#RobertELee is a lot like #ErwinRommel a glorious yet failed warrior, untarnished by the sins of his brothers
9:32 PM - 16 Aug 2017
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 17, 2017, 07:34:21 PM
They should have hung that traitor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 17, 2017, 07:56:26 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 17, 2017, 07:34:21 PM
They should have hung that traitor.

They should have hanged him, as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 17, 2017, 08:40:48 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2017, 07:56:26 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 17, 2017, 07:34:21 PM
They should have hung that traitor.

They should have hanged him, as well.

Hunged
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on August 17, 2017, 08:59:54 PM
Good thing we have the grammer/spelling Nazi around to keep us focused on the important stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 17, 2017, 09:12:56 PM
We're not savages here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 17, 2017, 11:43:05 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 17, 2017, 09:12:56 PM
We're not savages here.

Yeah, none of us play QB for Houston.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2017, 07:15:46 AM
Quote from: sbr on August 17, 2017, 08:59:54 PM
Good thing we have the grammer/spelling Nazi around to keep us focused on the important stuff.

Good thing we have someone with zero sense of humor around, or we'd have to take turns being all butthurt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 18, 2017, 07:19:56 AM
Good thing we have an amateur comedian around to keep us groaning.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 18, 2017, 07:33:04 AM
My reaction to the Houston joke was more a  :huh: than a groan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 18, 2017, 10:45:10 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10410602_1479532999030954_1318097452870293168_n.jpg?oh=a6afd079fee99951b07d276b64f7c75e&oe=5A30B190)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20882110_1402391483211039_1925745493567092673_n.jpg?oh=dad7da5c0ca76575ab981685fd95efbb&oe=5A22705D)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20840803_1347902448641215_8989707782204737398_n.jpg?oh=0db815d75b84c220d0b54ca3b287c2d2&oe=5A21ADBD)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 18, 2017, 10:53:29 AM
Quote from: Jacob on August 16, 2017, 01:54:02 PM
In the "surely this is just a wacky conspiracy theory" territory.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHU5fiqXsAAl819.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHVG5HIWsAAzdn_.jpg)

worrying to say the least.
and just another batch of reasons why a government should never, ever allow militias to exist on its territory. Militias belong in failed states.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 18, 2017, 11:48:43 AM
(https://i.redd.it/mwpljuk6qfgz.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 18, 2017, 02:34:35 PM
Harsh toke.

I emailed it to everybody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 18, 2017, 05:25:07 PM
(https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20881968_803021573212369_8284753399383185232_n.jpg?oh=935feb9088c8b3f9a11b3397aee66e1a&oe=59EAA3A3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on August 18, 2017, 05:26:46 PM
2/10. And the two was pity points.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 18, 2017, 05:28:11 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 18, 2017, 05:26:46 PM
2/10. And the two was pity points.

The title of the thread does include the word "follies" :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 18, 2017, 11:20:16 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20840820_1548883785187235_2957118130439718074_n.jpg?oh=e7870fd97a4a541d899263cc7000ea12&oe=5A326DFF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 18, 2017, 11:28:14 PM
I don't think having no credit history gets you a 800 score.  :P

But man that meme does not work at all. Did this person even watch Office Space?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 18, 2017, 11:36:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 18, 2017, 05:26:46 PM
2/10. And the two was pity points.


I laughed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 18, 2017, 11:38:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 18, 2017, 11:28:14 PM
I don't think having no credit history gets you a 800 score.  :P

No, no it doesn't.   <_<
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 19, 2017, 09:42:35 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20840685_1395207760527936_7971931244273013811_n.jpg?oh=c55fe5d3d6b10d0d25379a8887ed89cb&oe=5A1827E8)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20953796_1977329349173235_7050724896031610430_n.jpg?oh=a1e7909a3eade307f3a58b0f55c73a23&oe=5A383C87)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 19, 2017, 02:52:31 PM
:bleeding: how fucking clueless do you have to be re: that last one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 19, 2017, 02:56:44 PM
Well, my two oldest sisters also believe that if the police shoot you it must have been your fault, never the police's.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 19, 2017, 03:05:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cvTCQib.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 19, 2017, 03:07:26 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 19, 2017, 02:52:31 PM
:bleeding: how fucking clueless do you have to be re: that last one.

Also, are you saying there's any appreciable difference between the Statue of Liberty and a statue of Stonewall Jackson? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 19, 2017, 03:22:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 19, 2017, 02:56:44 PM
Well, my two oldest sisters also believe that if the police shoot you it must have been your fault, never the police's.

It would be funny as balls when they're sexually assaulted during a traffic stop.  No, seriously, it would be hilarious.  Because being fondled will be their fault, not the police's.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 19, 2017, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 19, 2017, 03:22:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 19, 2017, 02:56:44 PM
Well, my two oldest sisters also believe that if the police shoot you it must have been your fault, never the police's.

It would be funny as balls when they're sexually assaulted during a traffic stop.  No, seriously, it would be hilarious.  Because being fondled will be their fault, not the police's.

They are white.  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 19, 2017, 03:51:09 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 19, 2017, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 19, 2017, 03:22:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 19, 2017, 02:56:44 PM
Well, my two oldest sisters also believe that if the police shoot you it must have been your fault, never the police's.

It would be funny as balls when they're sexually assaulted during a traffic stop.  No, seriously, it would be hilarious.  Because being fondled will be their fault, not the police's.

They are white.  :huh:

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 19, 2017, 04:39:12 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 19, 2017, 02:52:31 PM
:bleeding: how fucking clueless do you have to be re: that last one.

That one's actually pretty funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 19, 2017, 05:19:04 PM
It is BS though. Only one statue got 'torn down' and the peeps were arrested.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 19, 2017, 05:46:12 PM
I'd like to think the guy who photoshopped it was being tongue in cheek. No telling though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 20, 2017, 05:27:25 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 19, 2017, 05:46:12 PM
I'd like to think the guy who photoshopped it was being tongue in cheek. No telling though.


Since the man holding the highest office of the land is making that same point, I doubt it.  It's strange, I don't recall people being so pissed that we tore down those Saddam statues back in 03.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 20, 2017, 05:41:42 PM
Perhaps some Iraqis were.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 20, 2017, 06:49:23 PM
All that history learning, gone!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2017, 03:25:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHrFb_MWsAEEhsx.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on August 21, 2017, 03:40:49 PM
Looks photoshopped.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2017, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: citizen k on August 21, 2017, 03:40:49 PM
Looks photoshopped.

Ya' think?  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 21, 2017, 04:18:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2017, 05:19:04 PM
It is BS though. Only one statue got 'torn down' and the peeps were arrested.
The last time France refused to follow a US President to war, they removed "French" from the fries.  I wonder what these people will do to a French statue when France refuses to join the war against NK...  oh, the irony :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2017, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 21, 2017, 04:18:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2017, 05:19:04 PM
It is BS though. Only one statue got 'torn down' and the peeps were arrested.
The last time France refused to follow a US President to war, they removed "French" from the fries.  I wonder what these people will do to a French statue when France refuses to join the war against NK...  oh, the irony :)

That makes no sense. 

PS--Jew hater.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 21, 2017, 05:16:46 PM
Only goofballs called them freedom fries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 22, 2017, 12:10:43 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20952926_1922123208060562_6324883845129499958_n.jpg?oh=78a2f65e117c0cd149662bd5a5195b77&oe=5A2F9C40)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
 :lol:  oh my
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on August 22, 2017, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 22, 2017, 12:10:43 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20952926_1922123208060562_6324883845129499958_n.jpg?oh=78a2f65e117c0cd149662bd5a5195b77&oe=5A2F9C40)

:lol: Be sure to ask them how "weak" someone would have to be to chuck boxes of tea into Boston Harbor. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2017, 02:14:15 PM
I like how the girls are giving black power salutes but the dude is just chillin' like it's any other spot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 22, 2017, 02:37:44 PM
Nice balls.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 22, 2017, 04:13:18 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 22, 2017, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 22, 2017, 12:10:43 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20952926_1922123208060562_6324883845129499958_n.jpg?oh=78a2f65e117c0cd149662bd5a5195b77&oe=5A2F9C40)

:lol: Be sure to ask them how "weak" someone would have to be to chuck boxes of tea into Boston Harbor. :P

Hippies
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 22, 2017, 05:50:20 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 21, 2017, 05:16:46 PM
Only goofballs called them freedom fries.
the same goofballs are defending Trump now.  That's a lot of goofballs for one country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 23, 2017, 11:57:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20994343_870509323107037_9164318401563595048_n.jpg?oh=0afd661bd6262f4e041404e162732c6b&oe=5A297CB1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on August 23, 2017, 12:03:19 PM
I am not even sure how one might go about responding to that much concentrated stupid all in one place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 12:47:00 PM
D'Souza is right though. Lee considered himself a Virginian over an American and that's why he fought for the South.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 12:48:12 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2017, 12:03:19 PM
I am not even sure how one might go about responding to that much concentrated stupid all in one place.

That is indeed a shitload of frozen concentrate stupid.
Maybe it's referring to an entirely different Lee, like Robert E. Lee of Passaic, New Jersey.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on August 23, 2017, 12:51:55 PM
Assuming the quote is actually from him, D'Souza has a talent for concentrating stupidity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 23, 2017, 01:17:06 PM
Stupidity and also untruths.  Any army with Winfield Scott in it has only one candidate for most decorated soldier.  Though, to be sure, since, AFAICT, Lee was not decorated at all (that wasn't the fashion when he served) the stupid is even more interesting. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 23, 2017, 01:29:48 PM
Quote from: frunk on August 23, 2017, 12:51:55 PM
Assuming the quote is actually from him, D'Souza has a talent for concentrating stupidity.


And getting convicted of crimes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 02:29:59 PM
I never got the 'Lee was an abolishionist' thing. Or how he was opposed to slavery and secession but participated in both yet was a man of great integrity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on August 23, 2017, 02:32:20 PM
Call me crazy, but I  think a basic requirement for me to think that some person is "opposed to slavery", regardless of what they say, or write, is that they, I don't know....

DON'T OWN ANY FUCKING SLAVES.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
Lee didn't own slaves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2017, 02:50:57 PM
The people you own end up owning you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 23, 2017, 02:53:11 PM
he opposed to so much he fought to defend it. moral giant that guy is. either he's a liar, or a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 23, 2017, 02:54:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 02:29:59 PM
I never got the 'Lee was an abolishionist' thing. Or how he was opposed to slavery and secession but participated in both yet was a man of great integrity.


Lee was released some slaves at in 1862 I think.  He was required to do so because of a will. 

Also, tip of that hat to Grumbler, it didn't occur to me, but he's right about the decorations.  I don't think there were any decorations awarded during Lee's time in the military.  They had "Mentioned in dispatches" instead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 23, 2017, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
Lee didn't own slaves.

so he was poor too. another strike against him in the republican mind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 23, 2017, 02:57:36 PM
It was a great moral failing not to erect hundreds of monuments to the memory of those men full of integrity, who fought for the British during the War for Tax Evasion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
Lee didn't own slaves.

Yes he did. What is your source?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 23, 2017, 02:57:36 PM
It was a great moral failing not to erect hundreds of monuments to the memory of those men full of integrity, who fought for the British during the War for Tax Evasion.

It went better than the English War for Tax Evasion back in the 1640s
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 23, 2017, 03:15:49 PM
it'd feel more sympathy for "but it's history" if these monuments were put up right after the war rather than after the 1900 to intimidate black people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2017, 03:19:07 PM
I wonder if the Japanese will let the statue of Saigo Takamori in Ueno Park remain. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 23, 2017, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2017, 03:15:49 PM
it'd feel more sympathy for "but it's history" if these monuments were put up right after the war rather than after the 1900 to intimidate black people.

Hey, intimidating Black people is historical.

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
Lee didn't own slaves.

Yes he did. What is your source?

They were his wife's slaves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 23, 2017, 03:48:14 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 12:47:00 PM
D'Souza is right though. Lee considered himself a Virginian over an American and that's why he fought for the South.

That is one of the few things Dinesh got right.  I first saw him when he was giving a speech on C-SPAN in the 90s and quite liked it.  But everything I've heard and read from him since then has been too crap-laden to bother with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 23, 2017, 03:51:25 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
Lee didn't own slaves.

Yes he did. What is your source?

They were his wife's slaves.

The old "hold the valuable property in the wife's name" trick. Must have learned it from his tax accountant.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 23, 2017, 03:52:08 PM
look at the lawyer blaming the accountant <_< :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 23, 2017, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2017, 03:52:08 PM
look at the lawyer blaming the accountant <_< :P

Oh yes, "blame". That's what I was doing.   :whistle:

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 23, 2017, 03:55:46 PM
it's all well and good to hide money from the tax man until your wife leaves you and takes all your stuff :D .
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 23, 2017, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2017, 03:55:46 PM
it's all well and good to hide money from the tax man until your wife leaves you and takes all your stuff :D .

That's when our friends the accountants generate work for us lawyers.

It's the circle of life!  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on August 23, 2017, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2017, 03:15:49 PM
it'd feel more sympathy for "but it's history" if these monuments were put up right after the war rather than after the 1900 to intimidate black people.

The south was economically devastated after the Civil War, and there was an army of occupation there.  Putting up a lot of monuments to the Confederacy during Reconstruction wasn't a realistic possibility.  (Intimidating black people was, though, the Klan was founded in 1866, and was parading by 1867.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 23, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
took 40 plus years to build up the monument budget?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on August 23, 2017, 04:21:31 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
took 40 plus years to build up the monument budget?

The last federal troops didn't leave until 1877; and it took about 25 years for any measure of prosperity to return to the south, which is the point when you start seeing the monuments starting to be built.  Jim Crow laws began immediately after reconstruction ended.

This isn't to say that the monuments are "History," rather they're a reinterpretation of history where the south was a romantic "Lost Cause."  (Hollywood kept this myth alive until the 1940s.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 23, 2017, 04:23:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 23, 2017, 04:21:31 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
took 40 plus years to build up the monument budget?

The last federal troops didn't leave until 1877; and it took about 25 years for any measure of prosperity to return to the south, which is the point when you start seeing the monuments starting to be built.  Jim Crow laws began immediately after reconstruction ended.

This isn't to say that the monuments are "History," rather they're a reinterpretation of history where the south was a romantic "Lost Cause."  (Hollywood kept this myth alive until the 1940s.)

Now, alas, that romantic reinterpretation is ... gone with the wind.

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 04:57:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
Lee didn't own slaves.

Yes he did. What is your source?

Snopes. His father-in-law did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2017, 05:09:03 PM
Lee didn't own slaves under his own name because his father and brothers squandered the family fortune to the point that Light Horse Harry ended up in debtor's prison.  Before that the family owned slaves though.  Robert E solved that personal problem by marrying back into money (or at least landed wealth).  It wasn't like his wife's family foisted slaves upon him. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 23, 2017, 06:15:24 PM
 
Quote from: W.E.B. DuBois
"It is the punishment of the South that its Robert Lees and Jefferson Davises will always be tall, handsome and well-born. That their courage will be physical and not moral. That their leadership will be weak compliance with public opinion and never costly and unswerving revolt for justice and right. It is ridiculous to seek to excuse Robert Lee as the most formidable agency this nation ever raised to make 4 million human beings goods instead of men. Either he knew what slavery meant when he helped maim and murder thousands in its defense, or he did not. If he did not he was a fool. If he did, Robert Lee was a traitor and a rebel–not indeed to his country, but to humanity and humanity's God."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 06:18:33 PM
DuBois is a real joy to read if you ever feel like picking him up.

Hey you can then go mention it in the non-white authors thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2017, 06:20:32 PM
Except Lee really was a traitor to his country. 
Which matters because so many of his present day defenders also pose as puffed up patriots.

"America right or wrong"    More like "American except when right"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2017, 06:20:32 PM
Except Lee really was a traitor to his country. 
Which matters because so many of his present day defenders also pose as puffed up patriots.

"America right white or wrong"    More like "American except when right white"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 23, 2017, 06:27:55 PM
Hey Seedy, have you joined the John Brown Gun Club yet?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2017, 06:27:55 PM
Hey Seedy, have you joined the John Brown Gun Club yet?

He probably has started his own chapter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 06:30:56 PM
Joined?  I'm not just a client, I'm the president!

(https://fitisafeministissue.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/client.png?w=474)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 06:31:28 PM
Valmy, you fucker.   :mad:19 seconds. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 04:57:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 23, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
Lee didn't own slaves.

Yes he did. What is your source?

Snopes. His father-in-law did.

His Father-in-Law died and he managed the estate and he was a pretty brutal master. His Father-in-Law freed his slaves on his death but Lee sued to keep the slaves in bondage but eventually the court made him free them...many years later. The whole affair was a pretty sorry one for somebody who supposedly was anti-slavery.

I guess he did not technically own them but that does not really justify anything. I mean I don't necessarily hold that against Lee but he gets portrayed as somehow outside the sins of his time for some reason that has no basis in reality, it is all Lost Cause nonsense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 06:51:54 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 06:31:28 PM
Valmy, you fucker.   :mad:19 seconds. 

Your joke was better :console:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 23, 2017, 06:54:47 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 23, 2017, 06:30:56 PM
Joined?  I'm not just a client, I'm the president!

(https://fitisafeministissue.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/client.png?w=474)

Can't wait to see you patrolling with your revolver. If you want to borrow some red armbands, let me know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 24, 2017, 07:49:54 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2017, 06:27:55 PM
Hey Seedy, have you joined the John Brown Gun Club yet?

John Brown preferred using swords ...  [/Pottawatomie] ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 10:19:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2017, 02:29:59 PM
I never got the 'Lee was an abolishionist' thing. Or how he was opposed to slavery and secession but participated in both yet was a man of great integrity.
"opposed" would be too strong a word.  He didn't like it would be a more appropriate description from what I've read.
Kinda like a necessary evil to him.  But a necessary evil to the white man, less so to the black.

He inherited slaves in 1857, and as someone mentionned here before, you could not simply disband slaves like that when you inherit a property.  Slaves are collateral to loans, that'd be like giving your car today while it stills guarantee a loan.

He opposed secession until Virginia seceded and the North threatened to invade.  He could have joined the movement anytime before that, but he just could not lead an army against Virginia.

As for integrity, that depends on how you define it.  Everyone has its own definition, it seems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 10:24:58 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 23, 2017, 04:21:31 PM
This isn't to say that the monuments are "History," rather they're a reinterpretation of history where the south was a romantic "Lost Cause."  (Hollywood kept this myth alive until the 1940s.)
God and Generals was made way later than 1940  :hmm:
;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 24, 2017, 10:36:30 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 10:24:58 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 23, 2017, 04:21:31 PM
This isn't to say that the monuments are "History," rather they're a reinterpretation of history where the south was a romantic "Lost Cause."  (Hollywood kept this myth alive until the 1940s.)
God and Generals was made way later than 1940  :hmm:
;)

Gods and Generals was not a Hollywood movie. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 12:48:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 24, 2017, 10:36:30 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 10:24:58 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 23, 2017, 04:21:31 PM
This isn't to say that the monuments are "History," rather they're a reinterpretation of history where the south was a romantic "Lost Cause."  (Hollywood kept this myth alive until the 1940s.)
God and Generals was made way later than 1940  :hmm:
;)

Gods and Generals was not a Hollywood movie. :hmm:
no? what is the required qualification then?
QuoteDistributed by    Warner Bros. Pictures
Country    United States
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 24, 2017, 01:07:44 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 12:48:12 PM
no? what is the required qualification then?
QuoteDistributed by    Warner Bros. Pictures
Country    United States

That it be made by a Hollywood studio.  Ted Turner Pictures wasn't a Hollywood studio (and, in fact, made far more for TV than for theaters).

QuoteGods and Generals (2003)
Company Credits

Production Companies
Turner Pictures (I) (as Ted Turner Pictures)
Antietam Filmworks
Esparza / Katz Productions (in association with)
Rehme Productions (in association with)
Mace Neufeld Productions (in association with)

You know, all that stud\ff you skipped past because it kinda made a mockery of your argument!  :lol:

WB being the distributor is neither here nor there.  WB distributes films from all over the world, to all over the world.  Not even you thought that "Distributed by" meant "Production company," because the production company was listed right there!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 24, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
Definitely a worthwhile thing to argue about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on August 24, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
Saw this on my Facebook feed, and then I saw the President has retweeted this:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH_ouugUwAESX_R.jpg)

Once upon a time I was going in style
Now I'm only going in shock
There's nothing I can do
A total eclipse of Barack
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 24, 2017, 01:45:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Nn0YM6X.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 24, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
Definitely a worthwhile thing to argue about.
yeah, Grumbler was arguing alone this time, I was merely asking a question :)   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 24, 2017, 02:37:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 24, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
Definitely a worthwhile thing to argue about.
yeah, Grumbler was arguing alone this time, I was merely asking a question :)

:lmfao:  No, you made an assertion, which was incorrect, then doubled down on the stupid. I was just pointing out the stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2017, 02:51:38 PM
Let's argue about whether we were arguing!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2017, 06:03:40 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 10:19:36 AM
"opposed" would be too strong a word.  He didn't like it would be a more appropriate description from what I've read.
Kinda like a necessary evil to him.  But a necessary evil to the white man, less so to the black.

I read the letters that are the source for people's views on his thoughts on race and slavery and yeah he does say there are a few problems with it but overall he basically has a perfectly conventional view of slavery for a member of his class. Slavery in America was much better for blacks than living in Africa. The abolitionists were vile troublemakers who were breaking apart the country. I feel like people tend to ignore most of what he says on these topics but focus on little nuggets and blow them out of proportion in an attempt to deify the guy. His army had tons of slaves in it doing manual labor, his armies captured free blacks in the north and turned them into slaves, and again he fought in court to keep people enslaved who his father-in-law tried to free. Yet hardly any of his apologists every tackle those facts, they just grasp at straws by taking things he said in his letters out of context.

I remember being very annoyed by Gods and Generals and Gettysburg putting ridiculous abolitionist statements in the mouths of Longstreet and Jackson. I see no evidence either was so detached from the reality of slavery in the South even in the unlikely event they did have those opinions. But the number of abolitionists in Confederate Army was probably much lower than sometimes perceived...like zero.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2017, 06:56:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 24, 2017, 06:03:40 PM
I remember being very annoyed by Gods and Generals and Gettysburg putting ridiculous abolitionist statements in the mouths of Longstreet and Jackson.

But didn't you see how much fun Stonewall Jackson's slave was having?  Why, it was positively righteous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 24, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 24, 2017, 02:37:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 24, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
Definitely a worthwhile thing to argue about.
yeah, Grumbler was arguing alone this time, I was merely asking a question :)

:lmfao:  No, you made an assertion, which was incorrect, then doubled down on the stupid. I was just pointing out the stupid.
I'll never be able to take anything viper37 says seriously after this debacle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 24, 2017, 08:21:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 24, 2017, 06:03:40 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 10:19:36 AM
"opposed" would be too strong a word.  He didn't like it would be a more appropriate description from what I've read.
Kinda like a necessary evil to him.  But a necessary evil to the white man, less so to the black.

I read the letters that are the source for people's views on his thoughts on race and slavery and yeah he does say there are a few problems with it but overall he basically has a perfectly conventional view of slavery for a member of his class. Slavery in America was much better for blacks than living in Africa. The abolitionists were vile troublemakers who were breaking apart the country. I feel like people tend to ignore most of what he says on these topics but focus on little nuggets and blow them out of proportion in an attempt to deify the guy. His army had tons of slaves in it doing manual labor, his armies captured free blacks in the north and turned them into slaves, and again he fought in court to keep people enslaved who his father-in-law tried to free. Yet hardly any of his apologists every tackle those facts, they just grasp at straws by taking things he said in his letters out of context.

I remember being very annoyed by Gods and Generals and Gettysburg putting ridiculous abolitionist statements in the mouths of Longstreet and Jackson. I see no evidence either was so detached from the reality of slavery in the South even in the unlikely event they did have those opinions. But the number of abolitionists in Confederate Army was probably much lower than sometimes perceived...like zero.


I don't know that Longstreet was an abolitionist, but he did join the Republican party after the war.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on August 24, 2017, 08:28:46 PM
Cleburne wanted to use darkies in the Confederate army. It didn't go over well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 24, 2017, 09:11:48 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 24, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 24, 2017, 02:37:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 24, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
Definitely a worthwhile thing to argue about.
yeah, Grumbler was arguing alone this time, I was merely asking a question :)

:lmfao:  No, you made an assertion, which was incorrect, then doubled down on the stupid. I was just pointing out the stupid.
I'll never be able to take anything viper37 says seriously after this debacle.

He has approached Marty level in achievement trophy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on August 24, 2017, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 24, 2017, 09:11:48 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 24, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 24, 2017, 02:37:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2017, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 24, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
Definitely a worthwhile thing to argue about.
yeah, Grumbler was arguing alone this time, I was merely asking a question :)

:lmfao:  No, you made an assertion, which was incorrect, then doubled down on the stupid. I was just pointing out the stupid.
I'll never be able to take anything viper37 says seriously after this debacle.

He has approached Marty level in achievement trophy

The Golden Foot
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2017, 11:20:44 PM
Quote from: dps on August 24, 2017, 08:21:33 PM
I don't know that Longstreet was an abolitionist, but he did join the Republican party after the war.

Yeah and he was the leader of a force of black police officers against his own veterans in the bizarre Battle of Liberty Place. So maybe Longstreet did have abolitionist thoughts...I doubt it...but maybe he did. But even if he did the throwaway line in the Gettysburg movie that the Southern states should have just freed the slaves in 1861 before firing on Fort Sumter is amazing. I don't have to explain at length what a bizarrely out of touch thing that is to say. The implication being that people would have been fine with it is just...well...yeah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 25, 2017, 01:18:30 AM
And this is why the Confederate memorials must remain, apparently:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21078297_1459009110814628_2992895999361301137_n.jpg?oh=e820ebe5e26917eaaea87abd924d26d9&oe=5A2F4FBA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 25, 2017, 01:43:57 AM
Every time I think memes can't get any stupider, and shameless...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 25, 2017, 01:45:03 AM
They are certainly a lousy vehicle for debate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 25, 2017, 02:43:54 AM
How clever they must consider themselves for having come up with that one. Jesus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 25, 2017, 02:44:28 AM
Kudos for drawing a parallel between Lee and the Holocaust though  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 25, 2017, 02:57:10 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 25, 2017, 02:43:54 AM
How clever they must consider themselves for having come up with that one. Jesus.


Yeah, I saw someone make that argument.  Though she claimed that the Germans perserved it.  I had to point out that the Auschwitz was in Poland, and the Germans really didn't have much say in what is preserved.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 25, 2017, 03:46:09 AM
The Germans have preserved Dachau, haven't they?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 25, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 24, 2017, 06:03:40 PM
I read the letters that are the source for people's views on his thoughts on race and slavery and yeah he does say there are a few problems with it but overall he basically has a perfectly conventional view of slavery for a member of his class. Slavery in America was much better for blacks than living in Africa.
No argument from me.  He certainly wasn't an abolitionist.

QuoteThe abolitionists were vile troublemakers who were breaking apart the country.
Well, breaking apart the country is evil, isn't it? ;)

QuoteI feel like people tend to ignore most of what he says on these topics but focus on little nuggets and blow them out of proportion
You mean people are transforming history to suit their political vision?  say it ain't so!  :P

Quote
I remember being very annoyed by Gods and Generals and Gettysburg putting ridiculous abolitionist statements in the mouths of Longstreet and Jackson. I see no evidence either was so detached from the reality of slavery in the South even in the unlikely event they did have those opinions. But the number of abolitionists in Confederate Army was probably much lower than sometimes perceived...like zero.
I don't recall about Jackson holding abolitionist views, I remember him having a black friend. It seemed odd at first, but then I read that a few free blacks joined the Confederates and a few slaves hoping to be freed.

As for Longstreet, I didn't interpret it as being an abolitionist view.  His talk of freeing the slaves then firing on Fort Sumter (or seceding, I can't remember) was a political manoeuver to insure the Confederacy's survival.  He knew full well the Confederates couldn't hope to survive without, at the very least, recognition from France and England, at best, a military alliance, and that would not come as long as they were a slave State.  It's hard to pretend you fight for State's right and gain sympathy for your cause when you're still practicing slavery, one of the (if not the) last Christian nation where it is practiced.

It's funny we talk about Longstreet now, I woke up this morning wondering if any of his statues got tore down and I read this:
Where are the monuments to Confederate Gen. James Longstreet? (http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/opinions/where-are-monuments-to-confederate-general-longstreet-opinion-holmes/index.html)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 25, 2017, 08:14:34 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 25, 2017, 01:43:57 AM
Every time I think memes can't get any stupider, and shameless...
It makes me realize how I truly lack imagination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on August 25, 2017, 08:22:18 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 25, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
It's hard to pretend you fight for State's right and gain sympathy for your cause when you're still practicing slavery, one of the (if not the) last Christian nation where it is practiced.

Brazil would have been the last (1888).  Cuba still had slaves until 1886.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 25, 2017, 08:44:08 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 25, 2017, 08:22:18 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 25, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
It's hard to pretend you fight for State's right and gain sympathy for your cause when you're still practicing slavery, one of the (if not the) last Christian nation where it is practiced.

Brazil would have been the last (1888).  Cuba still had slaves until 1886.
didn't some Confederates move there after the war (Brazil)?  Or was it Argentina?  I seem to remember someone posting pictures of Confederates descendants in grey uniforms from somewhere in South America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 25, 2017, 08:44:41 AM
But they were Catholics so it didn't count. Right, viper?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 25, 2017, 08:47:31 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 25, 2017, 08:44:41 AM
But they were Catholics so it didn't count. Right, viper?
Catholics are good people.  Only Protestants are evil sinners.  This is what my Catholic school taught us, at least.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on August 25, 2017, 08:54:38 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 25, 2017, 08:44:08 AM
didn't some Confederates move there after the war (Brazil)?  Or was it Argentina?  I seem to remember someone posting pictures of Confederates descendants in grey uniforms from somewhere in South America.

Brazil - Confederados (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederados)

Some also went to Mexico (it's implied that the John Wayne character in "The Searchers" had gone there), and I see from Wikipedia some went to British Honduras (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_settlements_in_British_Honduras) as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on August 25, 2017, 09:12:58 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 24, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
Saw this on my Facebook feed, and then I saw the President has retweeted this:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH_ouugUwAESX_R.jpg)

Once upon a time I was going in style
Now I'm only going in shock
There's nothing I can do
A total eclipse of Barack

This one kills me. In their analogy Trump is a dead dark useless rock while Obama is the brilliant, glorious life giving sun.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 25, 2017, 09:16:41 AM
It doesn't even make any sense. Obama got eclipsed back in January.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 25, 2017, 09:17:40 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 25, 2017, 08:54:38 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 25, 2017, 08:44:08 AM
didn't some Confederates move there after the war (Brazil)?  Or was it Argentina?  I seem to remember someone posting pictures of Confederates descendants in grey uniforms from somewhere in South America.

Brazil - Confederados (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederados)

Some also went to Mexico (it's implied that the John Wayne character in "The Searchers" had gone there), and I see from Wikipedia some went to British Honduras (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_settlements_in_British_Honduras) as well.
Yeah, I remembered Mexico, but they were expelled after the overthrow of the Emperor, IIRC.

So it was indeed Brazil.  Very interesting read, thank you :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 25, 2017, 09:46:22 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 25, 2017, 03:46:09 AM
The Germans have preserved Dachau, haven't they?

yes there is a memorial site.
The closest parallel to that in the US from the Civil war era would be Andersonville, which is preserved as a memorial/museum, and with no plans to close it.
I don't have any objection to preserving Confederate era sites as museums people teaching the atrocities of slavery and the treachery of Confederate leadership in defense of that abhorrent institution.  That's the equivalent of what the Germans do.  But that would require a big change to the way that Confederate memorials are organized now.

The Germans don't erect statutes to Guderian, Manstein, and Speer and in front of their courthouses.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 25, 2017, 10:22:28 AM
Who was it who had a mancrush on Speer? Hortense?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 25, 2017, 10:32:47 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 25, 2017, 10:22:28 AM
Who was it who had a mancrush on Speer? Hortense?

Yep. Is he Prime Minister yet?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 25, 2017, 10:34:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 25, 2017, 10:32:47 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 25, 2017, 10:22:28 AM
Who was it who had a mancrush on Speer? Hortense?

Yep. Is he Prime Minister yet?

I don't think so. The current PM is a waste of space but too far left I think.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 25, 2017, 10:35:04 AM
he also wanted to bang the 14 year old daughters of clients; so you know, not the best moral compass out there. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 25, 2017, 10:54:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 25, 2017, 10:22:28 AM
Who was it who had a mancrush on Speer? Hortense?

All Waffle-SS fanbois love Speer;  he's the "good nazi."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 25, 2017, 11:09:22 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 25, 2017, 09:46:22 AM
The Germans don't erect statutes to Guderian, Manstein, and Speer and in front of their courthouses.
We do have things named for Erwin Rommel or Paul von Hindenburg though, although there is a slow tendency to remove especially Hindenburg.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 25, 2017, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 25, 2017, 03:46:09 AM
The Germans have preserved Dachau, haven't they?

They don't really much of a choice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 26, 2017, 12:10:24 AM
(https://i.redd.it/i5vejokg6xhz.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 28, 2017, 02:25:53 PM
QuoteYour history lesson for the day.

Robert E Lee was married to George Washington's granddaughter. He worked with Grant during the Mexican-American war and became a decorated war hero defending this country He believed slavery was a great evil and his wife broke the law by teaching slaves to read and write. After the civil war he worked with Andrew Johnson's program of reconstruction. He became very popular with the northern states and the Barracks at West Point were named in his honor in 1962. He was a great man who served this country his entire life in some form or other. His memorial is now being called a blight. No American military veteran should be treated as such. People keep yelling, "You can't change history." Sadly you can. This is no better than book burnings. ISIS tried rewriting history by destroying historical artifacts. Is that really who we want to emulate?

As they tear down this "blight" keep these few historical facts in your mind. No military veteran and highly decorated war hero should ever be treated as such. This is not Iraq and that is not a statue of Sadam.

IN ADDITION:: Lee was also very torn about the prospect of the South leaving the Union. His wifes grandfather George Washington was a huge influence on him. He believed that ultimately, states rights trumped the federal government and chose to lead the Southern army. His estate, Arlington, near Washington DC was his home and while away fighting the war, the federal government demanded that Lee himself pay his taxes in person. He sent his wife but the money was not accepted from a woman. When he could not pay the taxes, the government began burying dead Union soldiers on his land. The government is still burying people there today. It is now called Arlington National Cemetery. DO THEY WANT TO TEAR THAT UP ALSO ??
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 28, 2017, 02:35:26 PM
 :lol:  no, you can't change history.  Not even with shitty history rewrites.

The Arlington bit is hilarious, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 28, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 28, 2017, 02:25:53 PM
QuoteAfter the civil war he worked with Andrew Johnson's program of reconstruction.

:blink:

Andrew Johnson's program was to try to veto everything and have it overturned by a 2/3rds Republican majority.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 28, 2017, 07:29:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 28, 2017, 02:25:53 PM
QuoteAfter the civil war he worked with Andrew Johnson's program of reconstruction.

:blink:

Andrew Johnson's program was to try to veto everything and have it overturned by a 2/3rds Republican majority.

I had to read Wikipedia, because I'm not familiar at all with that part, and again, it seems to stretch the truth (as expected), but not an outright lie.  Or am I missing something?
QuoteLee, who had opposed secession and remained mostly indifferent to politics before the Civil War, supported President Johnson's plan of Presidential Reconstruction that took effect in 1865–66. However, he opposed the Congressional Republican program that took effect in 1867. In February 1866, he was called to testify before the Joint Congressional Committee on Reconstruction in Washington, where he expressed support for President Andrew Johnson's plans for quick restoration of the former Confederate states, and argued that restoration should return, as far as possible, the status quo ante in the Southern states' governments (with the exception of slavery).[124]
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 28, 2017, 08:11:32 PM
It's not a lie. It camouflages what "President Johnson's plan for Reconstruction" was - the quick reinstatment of Confederate states into the union, being BFF with white supremacists, and generally oppose voting rights for freedmen.

But of course, for those who wrote the above, these are probably all admirable traits.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 29, 2017, 01:05:30 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 28, 2017, 08:11:32 PM
It camouflages what "President Johnson's plan for Reconstruction" was - the quick reinstatment of Confederate states into the union, being BFF with white supremacists, and generally oppose voting rights for freedmen.
ah, I should have started with "reconstruction".
thanks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2017, 01:10:19 PM
Jack Kennedy included the senator who was the deciding vote to not impeach Johnson (fell one short IIRC) in his book "Profiles in Courage" in a very transparent effort to suck up to southern voters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 29, 2017, 01:21:22 PM
A third of the Senate were deciding votes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 29, 2017, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 29, 2017, 01:21:22 PM
A third of the Senate were deciding votes.

Hey take it up with Jack Kennedy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 29, 2017, 03:17:15 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21150357_1981983635374473_6745396672068128940_n.jpg?oh=d7b79e2bca99b65034c700cce36911dc&oe=5A281538)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 29, 2017, 03:49:30 PM
:wub:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 29, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
They don't mean Southern Hemisphere, caballero.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on August 29, 2017, 07:55:16 PM
FREEBIRD!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 30, 2017, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 29, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
They don't mean Southern Hemisphere, caballero.

A few years ago we were boating on delta near Rio La Plata and passed a decent sized boat that had both Argentine and Confederate flags.  My father in law's best guess was that the boat owner was maybe a big Elvis fan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on August 30, 2017, 11:41:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 30, 2017, 11:29:58 AM
A few years ago we were boating on delta near Rio La Plata and passed a decent sized boat that had both Argentine and Confederate flags.  My father in law's best guess was that the boat owner was maybe a big Elvis fan.

Possible fan of John L. Cook clothes, possible descendant of the Confederados.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/confederate-flag-logo-john-l-cook-argentina_us_55cb8d39e4b0f73b20bb7ce4
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/gq8ae9/welcome-to-americana-brazil-0000580-v22n2
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 30, 2017, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 30, 2017, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 29, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
They don't mean Southern Hemisphere, caballero.

A few years ago we were boating on delta near Rio La Plata and passed a decent sized boat that had both Argentine and Confederate flags.  My father in law's best guess was that the boat owner was maybe a big Elvis fan.

A few years ago I was on a bus in Tanzania, and went by a house that had a giant confederate flag blanket drying in the front yard. I really wish I'd been able to stop and take a picture (I'm sure it was just part of excess stuff that gets donated to charity when it doesn't sell).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 30, 2017, 12:31:16 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 30, 2017, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 30, 2017, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 29, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
They don't mean Southern Hemisphere, caballero.

A few years ago we were boating on delta near Rio La Plata and passed a decent sized boat that had both Argentine and Confederate flags.  My father in law's best guess was that the boat owner was maybe a big Elvis fan.

A few years ago I was on a bus in Tanzania, and went by a house that had a giant confederate flag blanket drying in the front yard. I really wish I'd been able to stop and take a picture (I'm sure it was just part of excess stuff that gets donated to charity when it doesn't sell).

It might be that, or it might be the decontextualization that you see sometimes in places where they get American pop culture but not American history. "It's a rebel flag, and I'm a rebel! :cool:"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 30, 2017, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 30, 2017, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 30, 2017, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 29, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
They don't mean Southern Hemisphere, caballero.

A few years ago we were boating on delta near Rio La Plata and passed a decent sized boat that had both Argentine and Confederate flags.  My father in law's best guess was that the boat owner was maybe a big Elvis fan.

A few years ago I was on a bus in Tanzania, and went by a house that had a giant confederate flag blanket drying in the front yard. I really wish I'd been able to stop and take a picture (I'm sure it was just part of excess stuff that gets donated to charity when it doesn't sell).

I had an odd moment of that sort among the hill tribes on the Thai-Burmese border: an entire tribe outfitted in disco-era clothes. One guy had a silver lame shirt and bellbottoms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on August 30, 2017, 12:54:11 PM
I want to find the village that thinks the buffalo bills are the best team in the history of the NFL.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 30, 2017, 01:17:55 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 30, 2017, 12:54:11 PM
I want to find the village that thinks the buffalo bills are the best team in the history of the NFL.

The village elders talk about the glorious Minnesota Vikings of the 70s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 30, 2017, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 30, 2017, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 30, 2017, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 30, 2017, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 29, 2017, 04:26:54 PM
They don't mean Southern Hemisphere, caballero.

A few years ago we were boating on delta near Rio La Plata and passed a decent sized boat that had both Argentine and Confederate flags.  My father in law's best guess was that the boat owner was maybe a big Elvis fan.

A few years ago I was on a bus in Tanzania, and went by a house that had a giant confederate flag blanket drying in the front yard. I really wish I'd been able to stop and take a picture (I'm sure it was just part of excess stuff that gets donated to charity when it doesn't sell).

I had an odd moment of that sort among the hill tribes on the Thai-Burmese border: an entire tribe outfitted in disco-era clothes. One guy had a silver lame shirt and bellbottoms.
So, Eurotrip wasn't too far off the mark then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oMGErAHZsI
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 30, 2017, 03:22:20 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2017%2F08%2F30%2F16%2F43B6B64B00000578-4836882-image-a-1_1504107404286.jpg&hash=4dfa9bd73933905ebc113528818c2dc1791e16de)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 30, 2017, 03:43:02 PM
Who is that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 30, 2017, 03:46:12 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 30, 2017, 03:43:02 PM
Who is that?

Joel Osteen, mega church preacher that denied his 17k seat church to flood victims until called out on social media. First he claimed the building was flooded until pictures came out showing that it wasn't. now he's just blocking people on twitter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 30, 2017, 03:47:28 PM
this guy: (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flords.com.ng%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2FB001-3-240x240.jpg&hash=bec3a62f9e8e03e47b6d9acd2511af2daef5d60d)

Some kind of big time preacher in Houston.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 30, 2017, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2017, 03:47:28 PM
this guy: (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flords.com.ng%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2FB001-3-240x240.jpg&hash=bec3a62f9e8e03e47b6d9acd2511af2daef5d60d)

Some kind of big time preacher in Houston.

Don't give me "some kind of git time preacher".  You know who Joel Osteen is - I told you about him a couple of months ago!

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,4524.msg1090173.html#msg1090173
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 30, 2017, 03:56:54 PM
just because he looks like you doesn't mean he remembers everything you say :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 30, 2017, 04:09:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 30, 2017, 03:52:28 PM
Don't give me "some kind of git time preacher".  You know who Joel Osteen is - I told you about him a couple of months ago!

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,4524.msg1090173.html#msg1090173

See? He is so famous even Canadians know who he is. For shame Eddie. FOR SHAME.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 30, 2017, 04:15:32 PM
All I know about Joel Osteen is from "inspirational" Facebook posts from my wife's friend (now blocked) and snarky critical posts from Scip.  Were it not for the two of those people, I'd never have known.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 30, 2017, 06:52:37 PM
I know the name from cable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on August 30, 2017, 07:03:01 PM
He's probably the most famous prosperity gospel preacher today.  If you have faith, God will give you a McMansion, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on August 30, 2017, 07:26:47 PM
I'm a Jim Bakker fan
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2017, 07:27:48 PM
Yeah, back then they had style and panache.  They all look the same now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 30, 2017, 07:32:12 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 30, 2017, 07:26:47 PM
I'm a Jim Bakker fan

Is he the one that nailed the playboy chick?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2017, 07:33:12 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 30, 2017, 07:32:12 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 30, 2017, 07:26:47 PM
I'm a Jim Bakker fan

Is he the one that nailed the playboy chick?

:lol:  She wasn't a Playboy chick at the time.  She had to aspire to that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 30, 2017, 07:34:30 PM
That's good, they both got something out of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 30, 2017, 07:40:15 PM
I think Jim would disagree :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on August 31, 2017, 10:48:26 AM
One of my friends posted an article with the headline:

TRUMP PUMPS ARE THE ENVY OF FRUMPS (https://amgreatness.com/2017/08/30/trump-pumps-envy-frumps/).

I thought of CdM when I saw that.  Unfortunately it's from some right-wing blog and not Variety.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 31, 2017, 11:19:31 AM
 :lol:

They were atrocious, though.  Sure, I can appreciate maybe a decent pump, or even a slingback despite the weather;  but Eurostyle spike-you-in-the-eyesocket stilettos?  It was the airport's runway, not Dior's runway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 31, 2017, 11:23:05 AM
It wasn't like she was going to engage in relief efforts personally. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 31, 2017, 11:24:43 AM
Touche'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on September 09, 2017, 04:06:36 PM
Still no stupidity posted on Facebook so far this month.  :cool:

So I thought I'd stupidly bump the thread.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on September 09, 2017, 04:38:36 PM
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2017, 04:06:36 PM
Still no stupidity posted on Facebook so far this month.  :cool:

So I thought I'd stupidly bump the thread.  :P

The comedic goldmine that was syt's family is lost with him :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on September 09, 2017, 04:55:50 PM
 :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on September 09, 2017, 05:27:42 PM
Quote from: Liep on September 09, 2017, 04:38:36 PM
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2017, 04:06:36 PM
Still no stupidity posted on Facebook so far this month.  :cool:

So I thought I'd stupidly bump the thread.  :P

The comedic goldmine that was syt's family is lost with him :(

:cry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 09, 2017, 05:36:21 PM
Blame Valmy and Twitch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 09, 2017, 05:51:43 PM
I still don't get what the big deal about that was. I've seen worse since languish started.

Syt needs to disregard what the jack knobs said.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 09, 2017, 05:53:54 PM
With disregard their currents turn awry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 09, 2017, 05:57:10 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 09, 2017, 05:51:43 PM
I still don't get what the big deal about that was. I've seen worse since languish started.

Syt needs to disregard what the jack knobs said.

No kidding.  Most of you filthy fucks want to see me dead, but I don't let that get to me.

But I suppose he's having more fun letting bots watch him play video games all night, I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 09, 2017, 06:13:23 PM
what happened now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on September 09, 2017, 06:15:08 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 09, 2017, 06:13:23 PM
what happened now?

Valmy rejected Syts' marriage proposal, it ended badly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 09, 2017, 06:22:00 PM
Keep up, eggplant.  :bash:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 09, 2017, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 09, 2017, 05:51:43 PM
I still don't get what the big deal about that was. I've seen worse since languish started.

Syt needs to disregard what the jack knobs said.

:huh:

Syt was the one that preemptively attacked Languish about not carrying about Bangladesh. I mean you got allow people a chance to fail your expectations before you attack!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 09, 2017, 06:26:23 PM
There are a lot more important problems than Sri Lanka to worry about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 09, 2017, 10:13:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 09, 2017, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 09, 2017, 05:51:43 PM
I still don't get what the big deal about that was. I've seen worse since languish started.

Syt needs to disregard what the jack knobs said.

:huh:

Syt was the one that preemptively attacked Languish about not carrying about Bangladesh. I mean you got allow people a chance to fail your expectations before you attack!

Expecting us to fail expectations is pretty fair, I think.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on September 10, 2017, 06:31:28 AM
I'm sure they would've had some good things to say.

QuotePasco Sheriff ✔ @PascoSheriff
To clarify, DO NOT shoot weapons @ #Irma. You won't make it turn around & it will have very dangerous side effects https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/florida-gun-owners-encouraged-apos-213111921.html ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 19, 2017, 08:30:20 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fuser3303%2Fimageroot%2F2017%2F09%2F15%2F20170918_swap.jpg&hash=8ba23556282edf08ca3b2229a6aa28210985d836)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 19, 2017, 08:38:37 PM
Hardly any of that is part of the state much less a fantasy part of the state invented by insane people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 19, 2017, 08:38:57 PM
Ben Garrison is a gifted artist but needs to brush up on the relationship between taxes and the debt.  He might also benefit from electroshock.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 19, 2017, 08:41:59 PM
I love all the blatant anti-jew shit combined with tears about the censoring ADL. Oh yeah you clearly are being heavily censored by them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 19, 2017, 08:57:30 PM
I knew y'all would like it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 19, 2017, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 19, 2017, 08:38:57 PM
He might also benefit from electroshock.

Yes. But in fairness, who wouldn't?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 19, 2017, 10:28:59 PM
Man, libertarians are crazy as fuck.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 19, 2017, 10:34:44 PM
 :zzz
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 19, 2017, 10:43:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 19, 2017, 10:34:44 PM
:zzz


That's how he describes himself.  There are a remarkable number of Libertarians who have shifted over to Trump or the Alt-right/Alt-light.  Richard Spencer was Ron Paul guy back in 2008.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 19, 2017, 10:59:00 PM
I'm willing to bet there's at least one libertarian who's not crazy as fuck.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 20, 2017, 12:41:57 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 19, 2017, 10:43:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 19, 2017, 10:34:44 PM
:zzz


That's how he describes himself.  There are a remarkable number of Libertarians who have shifted over to Trump or the Alt-right/Alt-light.  Richard Spencer was Ron Paul guy back in 2008.
A lot of libertarians have always had a fascist bent to them.  They were bigots that disliked federal government cracking down on apartheid in the South.  A lot of filth on the right have mislabeled themselves to give legitimate cover to their very illegitimate views.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 20, 2017, 12:44:23 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 19, 2017, 10:59:00 PM
I'm willing to bet there's at least one libertarian who's not crazy as fuck.

Yeah? Name twenty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 20, 2017, 01:09:11 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 20, 2017, 12:41:57 AM
They were bigots that disliked federal government cracking down on apartheid in the South. 

It's segregation. Speak American!  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 07:49:28 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2017, 06:15:08 PM
Valmy rejected Syts' marriage proposal, it ended badly.

Part of the collateral damage was that Syt also unfriended me on FB when he left here.  All Valmy's fault-- I didn't do nuffin'!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2017, 08:11:17 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 07:49:28 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2017, 06:15:08 PM
Valmy rejected Syts' marriage proposal, it ended badly.

Part of the collateral damage was that Syt also unfriended me on FB when he left here.  All Valmy's fault-- I didn't do nuffin'!

I'd unfriend your cracker ass too; luckily, you're not classified as a friend to begin with, so that makes it easy.   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 20, 2017, 08:23:58 AM
But think how much fun you'd have posting things his mother might read.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 08:26:23 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2017, 08:11:17 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 07:49:28 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2017, 06:15:08 PM
Valmy rejected Syts' marriage proposal, it ended badly.

Part of the collateral damage was that Syt also unfriended me on FB when he left here.  All Valmy's fault-- I didn't do nuffin'!

I'd unfriend your cracker ass too; luckily, you're not classified as a friend to begin with, so that makes it easy.   

:weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 08:56:44 AM
Who's the guy sitting on the pizza in the cartoon?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 08:58:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 19, 2017, 10:28:59 PM
Man, libertarians are crazy as fuck.

He is a libertarian but opposes open borders?

What next a communist who supports private property?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 09:13:42 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 08:56:44 AM
Who's the guy sitting on the pizza in the cartoon?


Tony Podesta.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:14:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 08:58:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 19, 2017, 10:28:59 PM
Man, libertarians are crazy as fuck.

He is a libertarian but opposes open borders?

Libertarianism in One Country.  It's a thing  -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:16:08 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:14:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 08:58:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 19, 2017, 10:28:59 PM
Man, libertarians are crazy as fuck.

He is a libertarian but opposes open borders?

Libertarianism in One Country.  It's a thing  -_-

Libertarianism that embraces statism. Sounds like a contradiction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 09:17:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 08:58:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 19, 2017, 10:28:59 PM
Man, libertarians are crazy as fuck.

He is a libertarian but opposes open borders?

What next a communist who supports private property?

Ron Paul opposes open borders as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:18:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:16:08 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:14:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 08:58:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 19, 2017, 10:28:59 PM
Man, libertarians are crazy as fuck.

He is a libertarian but opposes open borders?

Libertarianism in One Country.  It's a thing  -_-

Libertarianism that embraces statism. Sounds like a contradiction.

Statism is a strong term, but yeah it is a contradiction.  Politics has lots of 'em though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:19:22 AM
Ron Paul was a Republican.

I mean you need a whole state apparatus, a big one, to enforce borders and immigration. Sounds like they don't believe in government except for really important things that matter to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:18:46 AM
Statism is a strong term, but yeah it is a contradiction.  Politics has lots of 'em though.

Well they can claim to be whatever they want but they are not libertarians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 09:24:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:19:22 AM
Ron Paul was a Republican.



Ron Paul ran for President as a libertarian as well.

QuoteSounds like they don't believe in government except for really important things that matter to them.

I think this sums up the beliefs of most Libertarians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:34:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:18:46 AM
Statism is a strong term, but yeah it is a contradiction.  Politics has lots of 'em though.

Well they can claim to be whatever they want but they are not libertarians.

That seems a bit silly.  So unless you score 100% on the libertarian test you can't call yourself a libertarian?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 20, 2017, 09:35:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:18:46 AM
Statism is a strong term, but yeah it is a contradiction.  Politics has lots of 'em though.

Well they can claim to be whatever they want but they are not libertarians.

Who are you to demand ideological purity for libertarians?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:37:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:34:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:18:46 AM
Statism is a strong term, but yeah it is a contradiction.  Politics has lots of 'em though.

Well they can claim to be whatever they want but they are not libertarians.

That seems a bit silly.  So unless you score 100% on the libertarian test you can't call yourself a libertarian?

No but you at least have to score 100% on the basics. Otherwise you are a liar. If you don't think government works and is evil then you cannot say 'oh but we need it to do this set of very important priorities'. Then it sounds like you do think government works and should be used for important priorities, you just disagree on what those priorities should be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:38:56 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 20, 2017, 09:35:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:18:46 AM
Statism is a strong term, but yeah it is a contradiction.  Politics has lots of 'em though.

Well they can claim to be whatever they want but they are not libertarians.

Who are you to demand ideological purity for libertarians?

A human? Am I forbidden to have opinions on Languish all of the sudden?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 10:07:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:37:09 AM
No but you at least have to score 100% on the basics. Otherwise you are a liar. If you don't think government works and is evil then you cannot say 'oh but we need it to do this set of very important priorities'. Then it sounds like you do think government works and should be used for important priorities, you just disagree on what those priorities should be.

Now you're just making fun of libertarians. 

THATS IT IM LEAVING AND ITS ALL VALMYS FAULT


:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 20, 2017, 10:14:15 AM
Valmy's opinion is correct. Everyone else is being a fool.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 10:15:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 09:13:42 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 08:56:44 AM
Who's the guy sitting on the pizza in the cartoon?


Tony Podesta.

I don't get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 20, 2017, 10:46:59 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 20, 2017, 10:14:15 AM
Valmy's opinion is correct. Everyone else is being a fool.

Valmy is conflating libertarians with anarchists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 10:56:27 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 10:15:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 09:13:42 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 08:56:44 AM
Who's the guy sitting on the pizza in the cartoon?


Tony Podesta.

I don't get it.

Pizzagate
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 11:17:11 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:19:22 AM
Sounds like they don't believe in government except for really important things that matter to them.

That's to be expected, though.  It's the way tribal politics work.  Democrats don't believe in allowing individuals to make decisions, unless they themselves are the individual.  Republicans want the least amount of regulation that still allows the absolute prohibition of activities they find immoral.  Crazy as batshit, both tribes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 11:20:42 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 20, 2017, 10:46:59 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 20, 2017, 10:14:15 AM
Valmy's opinion is correct. Everyone else is being a fool.

Valmy is conflating libertarians with anarchists.

Libertarians are closer to anarchists than they are to republicans or democrats.  Anarchists are just a bit further out on the "personal liberty" scale, in that libertarians concede a role for government and statute law.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 11:28:23 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 10:15:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 09:13:42 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 08:56:44 AM
Who's the guy sitting on the pizza in the cartoon?


Tony Podesta.




I don't get it.

(https://s26.postimg.org/hxuikye95/hillary-podesta-satanism-ben-garrison_1_orig.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Has to do with Pizzagate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 11:29:23 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 11:17:11 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:19:22 AM
Sounds like they don't believe in government except for really important things that matter to them.

That's to be expected, though.  It's the way tribal politics work.  Democrats don't believe in allowing individuals to make decisions, unless they themselves are the individual.  Republicans want the least amount of regulation that still allows the absolute prohibition of activities they find immoral.  Crazy as batshit, both tribes.


And apperently the Libertarian tribe is not particularly keen on Hispanics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on September 20, 2017, 11:50:48 AM
Spirit cooking is when you jizz in a cake, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 11:54:45 AM
What the hell is wrong with people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 20, 2017, 11:59:54 AM
Goats typically don't talk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 12:37:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 20, 2017, 11:54:45 AM
What the hell is wrong with people?


Schizoid personality disorder.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 01:18:58 PM
All I have for insight is a couple FB friends who apparently bit into the Pizzagate thing hook, line & sinker.  They were careful enough to couch their statements, but it was clear they bought it.  They seem convinced that there is an acute tendency among leftist/Hollywood elites and other groups of people toward child abuse, trafficking, even sacrifice-- with Satanism thrown into the mix. 

I guess sometimes you just create your own demons where none really exist.  It's not enough for the other side to be wrong-- they have to be 100% evil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 01:18:58 PM
All I have for insight is a couple FB friends who apparently bit into the Pizzagate thing hook, line & sinker.  They were careful enough to couch their statements, but it was clear they bought it.  They seem convinced that there is an acute tendency among leftist/Hollywood elites and other groups of people toward child abuse, trafficking, even sacrifice-- with Satanism thrown into the mix. 

I guess sometimes you just create your own demons where none really exist.  It's not enough for the other side to be wrong-- they have to be 100% evil.

So your friends were to the Democrats as Raz is to "libertarians"? 

Garrison is a bog-standard alt-right Trumpeter, but Raz seemly has to make him "libertarian" to really hate him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 20, 2017, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 01:18:58 PM
All I have for insight is a couple FB friends who apparently bit into the Pizzagate thing hook, line & sinker.  They were careful enough to couch their statements, but it was clear they bought it.  They seem convinced that there is an acute tendency among leftist/Hollywood elites and other groups of people toward child abuse, trafficking, even sacrifice-- with Satanism thrown into the mix. 

I guess sometimes you just create your own demons where none really exist.  It's not enough for the other side to be wrong-- they have to be 100% evil.

So your friends were to the Democrats as Raz is to "libertarians"? 

Garrison is a bog-standard alt-right Trumpeter, but Raz seemly has to make him "libertarian" to really hate him.

Indeed. There is nothing about Garrison that makes one think "Oh, he is a libertarian".

If Raz could claim he is an atheist as well, he would.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 20, 2017, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2017, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 01:18:58 PM
All I have for insight is a couple FB friends who apparently bit into the Pizzagate thing hook, line & sinker.  They were careful enough to couch their statements, but it was clear they bought it.  They seem convinced that there is an acute tendency among leftist/Hollywood elites and other groups of people toward child abuse, trafficking, even sacrifice-- with Satanism thrown into the mix. 

I guess sometimes you just create your own demons where none really exist.  It's not enough for the other side to be wrong-- they have to be 100% evil.

So your friends were to the Democrats as Raz is to "libertarians"? 

Garrison is a bog-standard alt-right Trumpeter, but Raz seemly has to make him "libertarian" to really hate him.

Indeed. There is nothing about Garrison that makes one think "Oh, he is a libertarian".

If Raz could claim he is an atheist as well, he would.

Well I don't think one has to actually think he is a libertarian but given that Ben Garrison calls himself that - that is one factor beyond just Raz claiming he is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2017, 04:02:07 PM
I've always thought the foundational belief of libertarianism is that the greatest good is individual human freedom (hence the name), not that the greatest good is the smallest government.  The second is a means to an end.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 20, 2017, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 20, 2017, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2017, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 01:18:58 PM
All I have for insight is a couple FB friends who apparently bit into the Pizzagate thing hook, line & sinker.  They were careful enough to couch their statements, but it was clear they bought it.  They seem convinced that there is an acute tendency among leftist/Hollywood elites and other groups of people toward child abuse, trafficking, even sacrifice-- with Satanism thrown into the mix. 

I guess sometimes you just create your own demons where none really exist.  It's not enough for the other side to be wrong-- they have to be 100% evil.

So your friends were to the Democrats as Raz is to "libertarians"? 

Garrison is a bog-standard alt-right Trumpeter, but Raz seemly has to make him "libertarian" to really hate him.

Indeed. There is nothing about Garrison that makes one think "Oh, he is a libertarian".

If Raz could claim he is an atheist as well, he would.

Well I don't think one has to actually think he is a libertarian but given that Ben Garrison calls himself that - that is one factor beyond just Raz claiming he is.

But that isn't why Raz wants to call him out - because his crazy ass cartoon is somehow obviously indicative of a typical libertarian mindset, and hence *obviously* that is what libertarians mostly think, and not just what this guy thinks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2017, 05:59:36 PM


But that isn't why Raz wants to call him out - because his crazy ass cartoon is somehow obviously indicative of a typical libertarian mindset, and hence *obviously* that is what libertarians mostly think, and not just what this guy thinks.

What should I call him?  He's draws political cartoons and calls himself a libertarian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 20, 2017, 06:13:30 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2017, 04:02:07 PM
I've always thought the foundational belief of libertarianism is that the greatest good is individual human freedom (hence the name), not that the greatest good is the smallest government.  The second is a means to an end.

Doesn't seem to describe the more prominent libertarian candidates though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 20, 2017, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2017, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 20, 2017, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2017, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 01:18:58 PM
All I have for insight is a couple FB friends who apparently bit into the Pizzagate thing hook, line & sinker.  They were careful enough to couch their statements, but it was clear they bought it.  They seem convinced that there is an acute tendency among leftist/Hollywood elites and other groups of people toward child abuse, trafficking, even sacrifice-- with Satanism thrown into the mix. 

I guess sometimes you just create your own demons where none really exist.  It's not enough for the other side to be wrong-- they have to be 100% evil.

So your friends were to the Democrats as Raz is to "libertarians"? 

Garrison is a bog-standard alt-right Trumpeter, but Raz seemly has to make him "libertarian" to really hate him.

Indeed. There is nothing about Garrison that makes one think "Oh, he is a libertarian".

If Raz could claim he is an atheist as well, he would.

Well I don't think one has to actually think he is a libertarian but given that Ben Garrison calls himself that - that is one factor beyond just Raz claiming he is.

But that isn't why Raz wants to call him out - because his crazy ass cartoon is somehow obviously indicative of a typical libertarian mindset, and hence *obviously* that is what libertarians mostly think, and not just what this guy thinks.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2017, 06:22:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 06:05:47 PM
What should I call him?  He's draws political cartoons and calls himself a libertarian.

The issue is what you call everyone else who calls themselves a libertarian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 20, 2017, 06:34:22 PM
I think the reason libertarians draw higher scrutiny, which they can very rarely withstand, is that "because liberty" argument carries a lot more moral high ground than "because it's the Democrat way" or "because it's the GOP way".  Therefore, if the person making that argument is applying libertarian ideology selectively, he's not deserving of the extra legitimacy he tries to claim for his views.  People that try to claim the moral high ground but are not in fact deserving of it tend to irritate other people greatly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 06:37:20 PM
It just annoys me that so many xenophobic assholes claim they are libertarians and then point to how the government has failed to crush foreigners and jews. Like this guy. I see them all over the internet whenever you go to some libertarian group.

I didn't mean to get into some kind of weird 'flavors of libertarians' with Spicey there.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2017, 06:49:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 06:37:20 PM
It just annoys me that so many xenophobic assholes claim they are libertarians and then point to how the government has failed to crush foreigners and jews. Like this guy. I see them all over the internet whenever you go to some libertarian group.

I didn't mean to get into some kind of weird 'flavors of libertarians' with Spicey there.

I wonder if the libertarians know that Spicy smuggles Latinos into the US through the uterus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 20, 2017, 07:12:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 06:37:20 PM
It just annoys me that so many xenophobic assholes claim they are libertarians and then point to how the government has failed to crush foreigners and jews. Like this guy. I see them all over the internet whenever you go to some libertarian group.

I didn't mean to get into some kind of weird 'flavors of libertarians' with Spicey there.

I think the basic issue is that a whole lot of right-wing xenophobes and other American right wingers not keen on the GOP have taken to calling themselves libertarians even if they don't particularly subscribe to what most political science students would call libertarianism (but rather the not uncommon "I hate the federal government unless it's used to support my particular political preferences" approach).

This causes some dilution of the brand as well as consternation among the people subscribing to some variation of actual libertarianism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 20, 2017, 07:53:14 PM
Interestingly enough, this was the topic of this blog post by a self-described libertarian scholar (American poli. sci. prof at McGill)

https://niskanencenter.org/blog/black-liberty-matters/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 07:58:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 20, 2017, 03:54:29 PM
Well I don't think one has to actually think he is a libertarian but given that Ben Garrison calls himself that - that is one factor beyond just Raz claiming he is.

Where does he call himself a libertarian?  I just went to his website and his favorite websites are all places the alt-right types praise. He mentions a libertarian website favorably but dismisses the libertarian candidate for president while praising Rand Paul and, after him, Donald Trump.

QuotePresident Trump also slapped dealt Al Gore a well-deserved setback by rejecting the Paris Climate Change Accord. That act alone caused me to applause. The climate change farce is nothing but globalism in disguise. Gore stood to rake in fabulous riches with the ruse. Our sun warms and cools—it's cyclical. The climate is always changing to some degree. Yet the sun is ignored and carbon, a building block of life, is impugned by the Illuminati. Trump isn't going along with the canard and is placing America's best interests first. Hallelujah...

Obama decapitated, weakened and feminized our military. Trump has had enough of that nonsense. He announced that transexuals would not be allowed in the military. Patton would have vigorously slapped such political correctness right in the face and so did Trump. It's glorious.

Sounds like he's not claiming to be libertarian at all.  He sounds just like any mouthbreather at Breibart.

https://grrrgraphics.com/about/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 08:00:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2017, 04:02:07 PM
I've always thought the foundational belief of libertarianism is that the greatest good is individual human freedom (hence the name), not that the greatest good is the smallest government.  The second is a means to an end.

Yes.  Libertarians are, at least in theory, just classic liberals hampered by the misuse of the term "liberal" in the US. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 20, 2017, 06:34:22 PM
I think the reason libertarians draw higher scrutiny, which they can very rarely withstand, is that "because liberty" argument carries a lot more moral high ground than "because it's the Democrat way" or "because it's the GOP way".  Therefore, if the person making that argument is applying libertarian ideology selectively, he's not deserving of the extra legitimacy he tries to claim for his views.  People that try to claim the moral high ground but are not in fact deserving of it tend to irritate other people greatly.


Also they seem to produce a disproportionate number of lunatics and racists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 10:50:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 20, 2017, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2017, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 20, 2017, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2017, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2017, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 01:18:58 PM
All I have for insight is a couple FB friends who apparently bit into the Pizzagate thing hook, line & sinker.  They were careful enough to couch their statements, but it was clear they bought it.  They seem convinced that there is an acute tendency among leftist/Hollywood elites and other groups of people toward child abuse, trafficking, even sacrifice-- with Satanism thrown into the mix. 

I guess sometimes you just create your own demons where none really exist.  It's not enough for the other side to be wrong-- they have to be 100% evil.

So your friends were to the Democrats as Raz is to "libertarians"? 

Garrison is a bog-standard alt-right Trumpeter, but Raz seemly has to make him "libertarian" to really hate him.

Indeed. There is nothing about Garrison that makes one think "Oh, he is a libertarian".

If Raz could claim he is an atheist as well, he would.

Well I don't think one has to actually think he is a libertarian but given that Ben Garrison calls himself that - that is one factor beyond just Raz claiming he is.

But that isn't why Raz wants to call him out - because his crazy ass cartoon is somehow obviously indicative of a typical libertarian mindset, and hence *obviously* that is what libertarians mostly think, and not just what this guy thinks.

Fair enough.


No, it's not.  I would have called him out even if he was not a libertarian.  The picture was posted, and just begging to be called out.  I can only assume that a political cartoonist his politics reflect his work.

Perhaps Grumbler and Berkut would like his earlier cartoons where before Trump and where he attacks both "Tribes".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 20, 2017, 11:03:47 PM
(https://s26.postimg.org/psb70g2w9/8d7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/idlv82h0p/obama_romney_vote_cartoon.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6ohvk3q1x/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/609115rc9/ron_paul_debate.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p5caax605/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/4nvxd0jah/ron_paul_home_run1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Look's like typical Ron Paul Nuttery to me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2017, 11:04:55 PM
Dude, stop it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 20, 2017, 11:09:24 PM
So one guy who supported Ron Paul now supports Trump. Mind blown.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on September 21, 2017, 04:10:08 PM
Yesterday, on Facebook, one of my friends compared the Federal governments reaction to hurricane Maria to Katrina; and demanded that Trump restore power right away.  She lives in Michigan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 21, 2017, 05:45:41 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 21, 2017, 04:10:08 PM
Yesterday, on Facebook, one of my friends compared the Federal governments reaction to hurricane Maria to Katrina; and demanded that Trump restore power right away.  She lives in Michigan.

Did she think that the President was going to start personally stringing back up downed power lines, just 'cause she said for him to?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 21, 2017, 07:31:29 PM
I'll keep the Ben Garrison cartoons to myself from now on. Sheesh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 21, 2017, 08:21:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 21, 2017, 07:31:29 PM
I'll keep the Ben Garrison cartoons to myself from now on. Sheesh.

It looks like Raz posted them all for you anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 22, 2017, 12:09:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:37:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:34:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2017, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 20, 2017, 09:18:46 AM
Statism is a strong term, but yeah it is a contradiction.  Politics has lots of 'em though.

Well they can claim to be whatever they want but they are not libertarians.

That seems a bit silly.  So unless you score 100% on the libertarian test you can't call yourself a libertarian?

No but you at least have to score 100% on the basics. Otherwise you are a liar. If you don't think government works and is evil then you cannot say 'oh but we need it to do this set of very important priorities'. Then it sounds like you do think government works and should be used for important priorities, you just disagree on what those priorities should be.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this.  I tend to subscribe to the school of thought that believes that the government that governs best governs least;  I don't think it's hypocritical to hold that view and still think that there are legitimate things that we need government for.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 22, 2017, 12:29:39 AM
Quote from: dps on September 22, 2017, 12:09:55 AM
I'm not sure I agree with you on this.  I tend to subscribe to the school of thought that believes that the government that governs best governs least;  I don't think it's hypocritical to hold that view and still think that there are legitimate things that we need government for.

Yeah that's potentially true - it somewhat depends on the things you think are legitimate applications of governments.

In my view, there are broadly few different broad ways to be libertarian:

1) Proceeding from a broad principle of minimal government, except in a handful of specific areas - typically (I think) some set of  key infrastructure parts, foreign policy, military (for self-defence), a legal system to arbitrate and enforce contracts and criminal law, plus a handful of others depending on flavour (education, disaster relief, basic research, maybe some other ones). The idea here being that the abundance of liberty creates the best possible outcomes in the long term, and where it doesn't it's your own fault so that's a just outcome as well. I don't mind it as a philosophy - and it's definitely possible to hold to it as a decent human being - but I think it's impractical and will lead to pretty terrible outcomes if applied strictly.

2) A milder version where maximizing liberty is seen as an important value - especially in a few key areas (usually idiosyncratic to the holder of the belief) - and it is general the default starting position. Nonetheless this kind of libertarianism is willing to be pragmatic and prioritize better outcomes over ideological purity.  This kind of libertarian can cover a wide range of positions and actual beliefs. Ultimately here it comes down to how pragmatic they are and, probably even more importantly, which things they consider "better outcomes".

3) This is really a variation of 2) above where "both better outcomes" and "liberty" seem to mean "benefits me or people like me directly" and/ or "inconveniences or hurts people of whom I disapprove". In this case, "libertarian" seems more of a hollow label.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on September 22, 2017, 12:23:34 PM
Quote from: dps on September 21, 2017, 05:45:41 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 21, 2017, 04:10:08 PM
Yesterday, on Facebook, one of my friends compared the Federal governments reaction to hurricane Maria to Katrina; and demanded that Trump restore power right away.  She lives in Michigan.

Did she think that the President was going to start personally stringing back up downed power lines, just 'cause she said for him to?

Now that would make for a wonderful television: obese billionaires stringing power lines.

I think that she, like many people outside hurricane zones, thinks that hurricanes are like tornadoes.  Catastrophic, but in a relatively localized area.  In truth the wind damage is significantly less (flooding can be like that), but it's over a much larger area; so power can take a long time to come back.

During Irma it took us a week to get power back, even though we were 100 miles from the eye, the storm was only a CAT 3 by the time it made landfall, and Florida is well prepared for hurricanes.  Expecting it to come back in Puerto Rico six hours after a CAT 5 storm left is more than a little unrealistic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 22, 2017, 01:28:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2017, 11:04:55 PM
Dude, stop it.

I can post more Poll Cats if that would help.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 22, 2017, 06:47:14 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on September 22, 2017, 12:23:34 PM

Now that would make for a wonderful television: obese billionaires stringing power lines.

Celebrity Utility Company Linemen.  Sounds like it should be on Fox.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 22, 2017, 07:18:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on September 22, 2017, 01:28:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 20, 2017, 11:04:55 PM
Dude, stop it.

I can post more Poll Cats if that would help.

NO
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 22, 2017, 08:44:32 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 22, 2017, 12:29:39 AM
Yeah that's potentially true - it somewhat depends on the things you think are legitimate applications of governments.

In my view, there are broadly few different broad ways to be libertarian:

1) Proceeding from a broad principle of minimal government, except in a handful of specific areas - typically (I think) some set of  key infrastructure parts, foreign policy, military (for self-defence), a legal system to arbitrate and enforce contracts and criminal law, plus a handful of others depending on flavour (education, disaster relief, basic research, maybe some other ones). The idea here being that the abundance of liberty creates the best possible outcomes in the long term, and where it doesn't it's your own fault so that's a just outcome as well. I don't mind it as a philosophy - and it's definitely possible to hold to it as a decent human being - but I think it's impractical and will lead to pretty terrible outcomes if applied strictly.

2) A milder version where maximizing liberty is seen as an important value - especially in a few key areas (usually idiosyncratic to the holder of the belief) - and it is general the default starting position. Nonetheless this kind of libertarianism is willing to be pragmatic and prioritize better outcomes over ideological purity.  This kind of libertarian can cover a wide range of positions and actual beliefs. Ultimately here it comes down to how pragmatic they are and, probably even more importantly, which things they consider "better outcomes".

3) This is really a variation of 2) above where "both better outcomes" and "liberty" seem to mean "benefits me or people like me directly" and/ or "inconveniences or hurts people of whom I disapprove". In this case, "libertarian" seems more of a hollow label.

This is a pretty classic example of painting things as only three alternatives, with the two extremes despicable, so that the preferred option is not really a choice among three options, but the only option.

I think that classic liberalism (i.e. libertarianism in the US) is, ideologically, simply the idea that people generally (but not always) make better decisions as individuals than as groups.  Some people (like Raz and DGuller) don't like that idea at all, but I suspect that the majority of people here believe this to be true.  The rationalizing expressed in the quoted post is just, I believe, an attempt to evade the dichotomy between what people know to be true and what their favored political parties choose to implement as policies.

It's too bad, IMO, that the concept of externalities wasn't understood before Adam Smith and John Locke wrote their works, because classical liberalism would be a lot more useful if it wasn't based on a too-simplified idea of how the world worked and what the consequences of individual decisions actually were.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 22, 2017, 11:46:55 PM
A classical liberal or libertarian position with a coherent way to handle externalities could be very compelling.

I suspect that for some who subscribe to the classical liberal/ libertarian position the lack of response to externalities is a feature.

In any case, I can agree that starting from the position of individual choice is ideal. The trick is figuring out where it isn't, how to manage that, and reach some sort of agreement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: citizen k on September 23, 2017, 02:11:17 AM
Wouldn't Anarchism be a more "pure" expression of individual choice than Libertarianism? While also emphasizing mutual cooperation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 23, 2017, 03:05:33 AM
Quote from: citizen k on September 23, 2017, 02:11:17 AM
Wouldn't Anarchism be a more "pure" expression of individual choice than Libertarianism? While also emphasizing mutual cooperation.

No. Rule of law prevents the strong from taking the liberty of the weak.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 23, 2017, 03:54:54 AM
Quote from: Jacob on September 22, 2017, 11:46:55 PM
A classical liberal or libertarian position with a coherent way to handle externalities could be very compelling.

I suspect that for some who subscribe to the classical liberal/ libertarian position the lack of response to externalities is a feature.

In any case, I can agree that starting from the position of individual choice is ideal. The trick is figuring out where it isn't, how to manage that, and reach some sort of agreement.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 23, 2017, 04:04:58 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 22, 2017, 08:44:32 PM
I think that classic liberalism (i.e. libertarianism in the US) is, ideologically, simply the idea that people generally (but not always) make better decisions as individuals than as groups.  Some people (like Raz and DGuller) don't like that idea at all, but I suspect that the majority of people here believe this to be true.
The problem with this definition is that it is useless, because it fails to narrow down much of anything.  Pretty much everyone on US political spectrum believes that for the most part, myself included, the disagreement is on how often externalities happen and what they are.  When I judge libertarians, I judge real people that identify as libertarians, I don't judge a theoretical libertarian from this uselessly broad definition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 23, 2017, 06:46:20 AM
Quote from: citizen k on September 23, 2017, 02:11:17 AM
Wouldn't Anarchism be a more "pure" expression of individual choice than Libertarianism? While also emphasizing mutual cooperation.

As I have argued, anarchism is, in many ways, the extreme expression of liberalism.  I think it makes too many unwarranted assumptions about the nature of humans.

End-state communism, remember, is anarchy, according to Marx.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 23, 2017, 06:54:32 AM
Quote from: Jacob on September 22, 2017, 11:46:55 PM
A classical liberal or libertarian position with a coherent way to handle externalities could be very compelling.

I suspect that for some who subscribe to the classical liberal/ libertarian position the lack of response to externalities is a feature.

In any case, I can agree that starting from the position of individual choice is ideal. The trick is figuring out where it isn't, how to manage that, and reach some sort of agreement.

The reality of externalities is acknowledged by modern classical liberals, I believe (look at British Liberal party policies from the late XIX/early XX centuries).  The degree to which government functions should be limited to dealing with necessary government functions (which liberalism has acknowledged as far back as Smith) and externalities, and the extent to which government has additional utility in creating social justice is the real dividing line between liberalism and socialism, as I see it.  I don't think that a final consensus is possible or even necessary, but the argument should be couched in terms of what has been shown to work, not in terms of namecalling and blind loyalty to tribes or parties.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 23, 2017, 08:11:07 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 22, 2017, 11:46:55 PM
In any case, I can agree that starting from the position of individual choice is ideal. The trick is figuring out where it isn't, how to manage that, and reach some sort of agreement.

Careful, Raz is going to call you a racist and crazy if you keep spouting of libertarian ideas like that!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 23, 2017, 08:36:43 PM
TAXATION IS THEFT
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on September 24, 2017, 02:19:13 AM
Remember when this thread was about weird shit on Facebook?
I miss Syt  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 25, 2017, 01:52:10 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21765360_10154811552230079_7241260027943439379_n.jpg?oh=b7dba6a0c3f4072d2d27d82218c627d8&oe=5A82CFDF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2017, 01:53:49 PM
America hasn't even existed 300 years, so I will disregard everything the guy said.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 25, 2017, 02:52:09 PM
The land mass has been know as America since April 25, 1507.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2017, 02:55:28 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 25, 2017, 02:52:09 PM
The land mass has been know as America since April 25, 1507.

They're not talking about the land mass. They're talking balding eagles and apple pie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 25, 2017, 02:57:19 PM
I'm assuming they are talking about people in the colonies which gets you 1619 when Jamestown got slaves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2017, 03:00:52 PM
Got slaves? "Hi, this is Brain. Yeah, I meant to call you... Yeah... Anyway I just got some results back and I think you should test yourself. Yeah. Slaves."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 03:01:05 PM
Enslaved? No that was not how the African slave trade worked. They bought people who were already slaves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 25, 2017, 04:02:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 03:01:05 PM
Enslaved? No that was not how the African slave trade worked. They bought people who were already slaves.

...And thus their children were promptly freed?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 05:03:12 PM
Children of slaves are slaves. Hey they didn't make the rules, those had been around for thousands of years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 25, 2017, 05:47:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 05:03:12 PM
Children of slaves are slaves. Hey they didn't make the rules, those had been around for thousands of years.

The rules? They purchased the slaves. They did not trip over them. They purchased enslaved people, who had been enslaved in one context, and made sure to keep them enslaved in their own context. They made the rules; they did not care, nor want, to keep slaves as slaves in an "African" context. "African" slavery (in reality a series of different practices) generally did not extend to one's progeny, and was considered a temporary status. Yet, after a few decades of experimentation of a more fluid status, planters of the Americas transformed slavery into super rigid institutions with few to no possibilities of escape. They transformed a status bound in circumstances (losing in war, owing debt) into something associated with "race". They adopted only the "Roman" definitions of slavery when it suited them, and dropped those which were inconvenient. They celebrated Christianity, and forgot that conversion was supposed to free slaves.

So yeah, they enslaved people. They developed a whole system to *keep* them enslaved. With constant violence. It's not a fucking accident of history of which poor planters were the unfortunate victims of weird African practices.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 05:58:12 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 25, 2017, 05:47:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 05:03:12 PM
Children of slaves are slaves. Hey they didn't make the rules, those had been around for thousands of years.

The rules? They purchased the slaves. They did not trip over them. They purchased enslaved people, who had been enslaved in one context, and made sure to keep them enslaved in their own context. They made the rules; they did not care, nor want, to keep slaves as slaves in an "African" context. "African" slavery (in reality a series of different practices) generally did not extend to one's progeny, and was considered a temporary status. Yet, after a few decades of experimentation of a more fluid status, planters of the Americas transformed slavery into super rigid institutions with few to no possibilities of escape. They transformed a status bound in circumstances (losing in war, owing debt) into something associated with "race". They adopted only the "Roman" definitions of slavery when it suited them, and dropped those which were inconvenient. They celebrated Christianity, and forgot that conversion was supposed to free slaves.

So yeah, they enslaved people. They developed a whole system to *keep* them enslaved. With constant violence. It's not a fucking accident of history of which poor planters were the unfortunate victims of weird African practices.

People for thousands of years had enslaved people and developed systems to keep them enslaved. There is nothing admirable about it or justifiable about it. But it was normal. Heck there are tens of millions of slaves in the world today.

I don't know where you are going with the 'victims of African practices' hilarity. Slavery existed in plenty of places that were not in Africa.

In any case this is rather obnoxious. The protest was SUPPOSED to be about police reform and trying to stop brutality. But it seems it is about what...history? Something that is inherently unchangeable? Is everybody going to kneel before the flag until what? The end of time? This is the reason I was nervous about such a vague and unclear protest last year. Because to many people disrespecting the flag is basically a personal insult. They will stop listening and consider you their enemy. So if you are going to do something that big, it needs to be for a good clear cause.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 25, 2017, 06:01:21 PM
I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 25, 2017, 06:02:57 PM
@Valmy: Then tell me what's the problem with "enslaved".

Hilarity, really?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 06:07:26 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 25, 2017, 06:02:57 PM
@Valmy: Then tell me what's the problem with "enslaved".

Hilarity, really?

Just what I said. It is inaccurate and I think removes it from its context.

Yes. I never said anybody was a victim of some West African thing. That was just a personal attack on me...so yeah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 06:13:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 25, 2017, 06:01:21 PM
I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I am just saying things that I thought were obviously true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on September 25, 2017, 06:15:43 PM
I would consider keeping someone enslaved to be enslaving them. I don't think that's at all inaccurate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 25, 2017, 06:35:35 PM
Quote from: Maximus on September 25, 2017, 06:15:43 PM
I would consider keeping someone enslaved to be enslaving them. I don't think that's at all inaccurate.

I agree, but it's still inaccurate to say that Americans enslaved a whole race.  Not all black Africans were enslaved, and not all of the ones who were enslaved were brought to America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on September 25, 2017, 07:04:38 PM
Well you could argue that it's automatically inaccurate by virtue of the fact that races don't exist, but that would be unhelpful. Beyond that, the word "race" can mean almost whatever you want it to mean. Speaking of African-Americans as a race in this context is no stretch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 25, 2017, 07:12:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 06:07:26 PM
Just what I said. It is inaccurate and I think removes it from its context.

Yes. I never said anybody was a victim of some West African thing. That was just a personal attack on me...so yeah.

It is not inaccurate. Keeping someone enslaved is enslaving them. What kind of context does it remove? What's the purpose of the distinction between those who capture and those who maintain in slavery?

Thus my bringing up West Africa - which I fail to see how it can be construed as a personal attack. People who usually bring up the distinction between those who captured men and sold them into slavery and those who maintained people in chattel slavery often do so in order to diffuse blame and responsibility, at least in part, to "Africans". And it is still the vibe I get from your post. It may have been motivated by a genuine desire for historical nitpicking, but it takes place in a context where such deflections are meant to establish dubious similarities, and silence protest. So I reacted strongly, because I think this sort of distinction doesn't bring clarity to the matter (if the matter is indeed the inner workings of the Atlantic slave trade, and not some sort of ahistorical, eternal "slavery").
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 08:03:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 25, 2017, 06:01:21 PM
I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I'm not really sure why you find his clear statements so baffling.

If one protests against history, then one's protest will never end, because its cause will never change.  That's not rocket science.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 08:12:19 PM
Quote from: Maximus on September 25, 2017, 06:15:43 PM
I would consider keeping someone enslaved to be enslaving them. I don't think that's at all inaccurate.

That's playing semantic games.

The problem with western and Muslim slavery, as opposed to actual (non-romanticized) African or even ancient slavery, is that it was chattel slavery.  Slaves weren't just a lower class, they weren't even people.

But, as Valmy has noted, that's the past and cannot be changed.  There is a great deal about the present that can be changed, but, if Chris Silber is right, "an entire race" can never celebrate American history because the past cannot be changed, and that is what he RAGEs against.  That poor "entire race" is just fucked, plain and simple.  Doomed to live in a land whose history and individual accomplishments (even if it is their own) cannot be celebrate just because it cannot be changed.

Yeah, whatever.  He and his ilk will eventually die off and leave the stage for those who can appreciate history for what it is, not for what it can never be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 08:14:23 PM
Quote from: dps on September 25, 2017, 06:35:35 PM
Quote from: Maximus on September 25, 2017, 06:15:43 PM
I would consider keeping someone enslaved to be enslaving them. I don't think that's at all inaccurate.

I agree, but it's still inaccurate to say that Americans enslaved a whole race.  Not all black Africans were enslaved, and not all of the ones who were enslaved were brought to America.

And some of those doing the enslaving (even in the US) were members of that "entire race."  So that "entire race"'s history can never be applauded, either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on September 25, 2017, 08:19:22 PM
Grumbler remembers the slave glut after Alesia.

Pepperidge Farms remembers also
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 25, 2017, 08:24:16 PM
 :lol:  -2 on the Berkut Trigger Activation table.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 25, 2017, 10:45:44 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 08:03:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 25, 2017, 06:01:21 PM
I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I'm not really sure why you find his clear statements so baffling.

If one protests against history, then one's protest will never end, because its cause will never change.  That's not rocket science.


Well, now I don't know what you are on about either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 25, 2017, 10:49:22 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 25, 2017, 07:12:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 25, 2017, 06:07:26 PM
Just what I said. It is inaccurate and I think removes it from its context.

Yes. I never said anybody was a victim of some West African thing. That was just a personal attack on me...so yeah.

It is not inaccurate. Keeping someone enslaved is enslaving them. What kind of context does it remove? What's the purpose of the distinction between those who capture and those who maintain in slavery?

Thus my bringing up West Africa - which I fail to see how it can be construed as a personal attack. People who usually bring up the distinction between those who captured men and sold them into slavery and those who maintained people in chattel slavery often do so in order to diffuse blame and responsibility, at least in part, to "Africans". And it is still the vibe I get from your post. It may have been motivated by a genuine desire for historical nitpicking, but it takes place in a context where such deflections are meant to establish dubious similarities, and silence protest. So I reacted strongly, because I think this sort of distinction doesn't bring clarity to the matter (if the matter is indeed the inner workings of the Atlantic slave trade, and not some sort of ahistorical, eternal "slavery").


Do Africans share blame and responsibility?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 25, 2017, 11:16:56 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 08:12:19 PM
Yeah, whatever.  He and his ilk will eventually die off and leave the stage for those who can appreciate history for what it is, not for what it can never be.

Will this happen when the moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 26, 2017, 01:25:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 08:03:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 25, 2017, 06:01:21 PM
I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I'm not really sure why you find his clear statements so baffling.

If one protests against history, then one's protest will never end, because its cause will never change.  That's not rocket science.

Who is protesting history?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 26, 2017, 01:59:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 26, 2017, 01:25:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 08:03:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 25, 2017, 06:01:21 PM
I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I'm not really sure why you find his clear statements so baffling.

If one protests against history, then one's protest will never end, because its cause will never change.  That's not rocket science.

Who is protesting history?


Tim.  Every time he buys one of those Turtledove novels.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 26, 2017, 04:42:04 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 25, 2017, 11:16:56 PM
Will this happen when the moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars?

In the year 2555
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 26, 2017, 08:05:04 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 26, 2017, 04:42:04 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 25, 2017, 11:16:56 PM
Will this happen when the moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars?

In the year 2555

Please remember us when you are there to witness it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on September 26, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 25, 2017, 08:12:19 PM
Quote from: Maximus on September 25, 2017, 06:15:43 PM
I would consider keeping someone enslaved to be enslaving them. I don't think that's at all inaccurate.

That's playing semantic games.

No, playing semantic games is focusing on the phrase "entire race" when it has a broad range of possible meanings, a number of which could be considered accurate, and using the meaning that conforms with your worldview.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 26, 2017, 12:34:29 PM
Quote from: Maximus on September 26, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
No, playing semantic games is focusing on the phrase "entire race" when it has a broad range of possible meanings, a number of which could be considered accurate, and using the meaning that conforms with your worldview.

:huh:  "Entire race" was not my phrase.  It was Chris Silber's.  Take it up with him.

When you come up with an "accurate" definition of "entire race" that fits this context, feel free to share.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on September 26, 2017, 12:50:20 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22046646_1171345296299708_2257355669476945833_n.jpg?oh=92a56c7e97681819955b0d9f3ca3cd89&oe=5A41CC35)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on September 26, 2017, 12:59:51 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 26, 2017, 12:34:29 PM
When you come up with an "accurate" definition of "entire race" that fits this context, feel free to share.
:lol: No, you can't have my point. It's your argument that needs an accurate definition of "entire race", not mine. You're the one who's choosing to focus on that phrase.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 26, 2017, 01:29:04 PM
@sav

Does she have pom-poms braided into her hair? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on September 26, 2017, 01:38:01 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 26, 2017, 01:29:04 PM
@sav

Does she have pom-poms braided into her hair? :unsure:



Jeff Gillooly had a baton; you may be onto something.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 26, 2017, 01:55:06 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008223_10155711893042943_5058297043632443600_n.jpg?oh=d69b79dfa60e19417fb43d13c2a4b300&oe=5A4FBAEF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 26, 2017, 01:56:11 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008026_10212482460289787_2877133525831280161_n.jpg?oh=3003036e2aee850da8bc119333d775e9&oe=5A56A20C)

(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21768123_10212811208869439_5045666999032933664_n.jpg?oh=ccf34d74e8fd8f4b59d468e244d1e055&oe=5A5568E2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on September 26, 2017, 01:58:36 PM
That one guy folded his nazi flag into a very tiny little square... should have ironed it before pulling it out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 26, 2017, 02:00:57 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22007919_1818742891486592_995722092766282159_n.jpg?oh=c4ccf58d740e74d70c7f6676ac9a4c46&oe=5A4F3FA6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 26, 2017, 02:22:10 PM
Quote from: Maximus on September 26, 2017, 12:59:51 PM
:lol: No, you can't have my point. It's your argument that needs an accurate definition of "entire race", not mine. You're the one who's choosing to focus on that phrase.

:lol:  No, you cannot have my point, either.  I am making no argument about the "entire race" that is any different than that made by Chris Silber.  Take it up with him if you have a problem with the term.  I think it is absurd, but your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 26, 2017, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: PRC on September 26, 2017, 01:58:36 PM
That one guy folded his nazi flag into a very tiny little square... should have ironed it before pulling it out.

Pretty sure it's just out of the shipping packet from China.

Or, I mean, I guess that's how they fold them when shipped :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 26, 2017, 04:53:02 PM
Quote from: Maximus on September 26, 2017, 12:59:51 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 26, 2017, 12:34:29 PM
When you come up with an "accurate" definition of "entire race" that fits this context, feel free to share.
:lol: No, you can't have my point. It's your argument that needs an accurate definition of "entire race", not mine. You're the one who's choosing to focus on that phrase.

While "race" may not be a precise term, "entire" does have a specific meaning.  Grumbler and I may have focused on the term, but we weren't the ones who used it to start with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 26, 2017, 05:59:01 PM
Quote from: derspiess on September 26, 2017, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: PRC on September 26, 2017, 01:58:36 PM
That one guy folded his nazi flag into a very tiny little square... should have ironed it before pulling it out.

Pretty sure it's just out of the shipping packet from China.

Or, I mean, I guess that's how they fold them when shipped :ph34r:

Pocket-sized, for the racist on the go.  You just can't have racial cleansing politics without a moist towelette handy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 26, 2017, 06:53:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 26, 2017, 02:00:57 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22007919_1818742891486592_995722092766282159_n.jpg?oh=c4ccf58d740e74d70c7f6676ac9a4c46&oe=5A4F3FA6)
I can't see any of your last 3 images...  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on September 27, 2017, 05:28:53 PM
(https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21767991_1701298016549845_6969507940451991598_n.jpg?oh=0b99ef6dbd691b0f27ade4fdd55bffcc&oe=5A814DBE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 27, 2017, 05:48:23 PM
Undecided as to whether that's meme-y or racist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 27, 2017, 06:49:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 26, 2017, 01:55:06 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008223_10155711893042943_5058297043632443600_n.jpg?oh=d69b79dfa60e19417fb43d13c2a4b300&oe=5A4FBAEF)

Odd it brings up Trump but never mentions the whole point of the protest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on September 28, 2017, 12:48:36 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21767904_1936290926693791_3074984474775401860_n.png?oh=f45040cbe2e403c89db7e345fa471829&oe=5A4C1F7B)

I get why the right (and especially the Pro-Trump right) continues this on Facebook; it allows them to portray the left as unpatriotic and hating the military.  I don't get why the left feels the need to perpetuate this issue; there are much more serious problems with the Trump administration.  Undoubtedly the misuse of government planes or private e-mail servers or the disaster in Puerto Rico could be turned into juvenile profound and thought provoking memes.

I don't want to be the person who goes on like "I can't believe we are discussing this when children are starving in Africa," so I deactivated my Facebook account (again.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2017, 01:03:13 PM
It might not have anything to do with Trump. I mean this protest is supposed to be about persecution of black people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on September 28, 2017, 01:08:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2017, 01:03:13 PM
It might not have anything to do with Trump. I mean this protest is supposed to be about persecution of black people.

Everything is about Trump.  It's a Trumptastic world!

;)

I wasn't seeing this on my Facebook feed until Donald Trump's Alabama speech.  Even posters who never posted about police shootings or BLM one way or the other are posting about the NFL.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 28, 2017, 01:12:14 PM
Well he made it a bigger deal for people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 28, 2017, 02:32:02 PM
I do think that Secretary Mnuchin's comments were revelatory of a certain entrenched attitude (aside from the sheer bizarro world aspect of a Treasury Secretary making a press appearance to comment on the speech rights of football players).  He basically said that players are employees, and have to accept the rules their employer gives them: "This is a job. And the employers have the right, when the players are working, to have rules."

What Mnuchin apparently forgot is that the NFL is unionized work place, subject to a CBA.  The NFL and its clubs can't just enforce any rules they want anytime, it has to comply with the CBA rules on discipline, including the grievance procedures.  It's telling that Mnuchin just assumes as a matter of course that an employee must necessarily be a peon who is compelled to toe the line to whatever workplace rule the NFL may impose any time or any place, it says volumes about his preconceptions about the proper relationship between labor and business.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 28, 2017, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 28, 2017, 02:32:02 PM
What Mnuchin apparently forgot is that the NFL is unionized work place, subject to a CBA.  The NFL and its clubs can't just enforce any rules they want anytime, it has to comply with the CBA rules on discipline, including the grievance procedures.  It's telling that Mnuchin just assumes as a matter of course that an employee must necessarily be a peon who is compelled to toe the line to whatever workplace rule the NFL may impose any time or any place, it says volumes about his preconceptions about the proper relationship between labor and business.

He's by no means an exception, MM.  That happens to be the prevailing opinion in modern American society, going on 40 years now. Even John Q. Laborer is deferential to management in this era of political and societal hostility towards unions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2017, 05:20:12 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22195255_10154829360925079_7269350889224942683_n.jpg?oh=c5d13b3869b33e2d42405eda6e962825&oe=5A8735F2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 03, 2017, 05:46:09 PM
 :lol:  Too true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 04, 2017, 07:12:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5MD6VYX.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2017, 07:47:01 PM
No way a driver is going to get over that house.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 04, 2017, 07:53:03 PM
That doesn't look like a driver to me, looks like a wedge.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on October 04, 2017, 07:54:01 PM
I like this one better. Source (https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/748nvz/my_friend_made_this_illustration_of_the_golfing/)

(https://i.redditmedia.com/Q6sdaXrW7MHroEPArdyHiobwUZ3-yGLMREbz_spw7NQ.jpg?w=614&s=763dd2d287081315074f178eefe20a02)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 04, 2017, 07:57:03 PM
DAT ASS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2017, 09:12:10 PM
Quote from: sbr on October 04, 2017, 07:54:01 PM
I like this one better. Source (https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/748nvz/my_friend_made_this_illustration_of_the_golfing/)

(https://i.redditmedia.com/Q6sdaXrW7MHroEPArdyHiobwUZ3-yGLMREbz_spw7NQ.jpg?w=614&s=763dd2d287081315074f178eefe20a02)
What the hell was in that golf ball?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on October 07, 2017, 11:17:39 AM
I did have to reactivate my account for rivalry day:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/8c/7d/7f8c7d9676fcc570326b606e5860f1b5.jpg)

Through the miracle of Google I learned that a number of states have their equivalent to "Walmart Wolverines."

(https://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/michigan-football-memes-6.jpg?quality=88&w=320)

When I was at AT&T one of our project managers said that his daughter, then in grade school, was usually a straight A student, but got a B in art.  She asked "Does this mean I have to go to Michigan State?"   :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 07, 2017, 04:06:18 PM
I love the fact that Sparty fans think they are clever by pointing out that, while only MSU grads are fans of MSU, everyone else in the state is a fan of Michigan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 07, 2017, 04:18:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 07, 2017, 04:06:18 PM
everyone else in the state is a fan of Michigan.

Unlikely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 07, 2017, 04:49:17 PM
That's how it is in Iowa.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 07, 2017, 05:33:16 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 07, 2017, 04:18:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 07, 2017, 04:06:18 PM
everyone else in the state is a fan of Michigan.

Unlikely.

According to Sparty it is true. They take great pride in claiming that only MSU grads wear MSU colors.

It isn't true, of course, but Sparty doesn't seem to realize how absurd they sound by claiming that it is true.  See Sav's post.

What is true is that MSU and UM grads share the fact that they all could have gotten accepted to MSU.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 07, 2017, 06:40:18 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 07, 2017, 04:49:17 PM
That's how it is in Iowa.

Everyone in Iowa who isn't a Michigan State grad is a Michigan fan?  That's kind of weird.   



;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 07, 2017, 07:58:45 PM
I will concede that Michigan produces much bigger douchebags.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on October 08, 2017, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 07, 2017, 04:18:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 07, 2017, 04:06:18 PM
everyone else in the state is a fan of Michigan.

Unlikely.

Well, not today at least.

;)

While Notre Dame does have a contingent of fans in Michigan who don't have a tie to the university; generally sports fans in Michigan who didn't go to a Division I college with a good sports program will root for Michigan.  Michigan State has had championship teams over the years, but it's generally thought of as the "Second school."

Some Walmart Wolverines take their fandom much further than they should.  I have a nephew who had maize and blue as his wedding colors; they had the University of Michigan fight song played as they entered the reception.  Both he and his wife went to Central Michigan University.  No one in either family went to Michigan or works for the University of Michigan.  It was well beyond my understanding; especially since my alma mater's (unofficial) fight song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxcMKIQ_W7o) is so much better than "Hail to the Victors."

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 08, 2017, 08:17:38 PM
I have a young couple that moved into my building from Michigan, they've got a car with Central Michigan decals all over their car.  I feel sorry for them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 08, 2017, 08:40:47 PM
Dove... what the fuck you doing dove?

(https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1641279/dove-advert-facebook.png?w=400)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 08, 2017, 08:49:34 PM
Sammy Sosa must be using Dove.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 08, 2017, 08:54:41 PM
Too old, too fat
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 08, 2017, 09:05:18 PM
Dove causes anemia.  Who knew.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 08, 2017, 10:00:42 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 08, 2017, 08:40:47 PM
Dove... what the fuck you doing dove?

(https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1641279/dove-advert-facebook.png?w=400)
Didn't someone do this clever "our stuff washes the black off" before?  Or is this that old ad rehashed?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2017, 10:09:00 PM
There was the one where the Asian woman puts black guy in washing machine and pulls out Asian guy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 08, 2017, 10:37:05 PM
Besides the oneeddie mentions, it used to be a popular ad trope for soap. Google racist soap ads
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 08, 2017, 11:52:48 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 08, 2017, 08:54:41 PM
Too old, too fat

Yeah, Sosa's too old and too fat;  that's why he retired.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 09, 2017, 04:59:50 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22281628_10154842378090079_5055792851579385903_n.jpg?oh=163b8e2b23362c2f35a41955b21c6029&oe=5A849345)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 09, 2017, 05:02:19 PM
:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 09, 2017, 05:04:11 PM
It would be more accurate with "boy."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2017, 05:07:51 PM
Political cartoonists have a knack for annoying everybody who isn't firmly entrenched in their camp.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 09, 2017, 06:34:03 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2017, 05:07:51 PM
Political cartoonists have a knack for annoying everybody who isn't firmly entrenched in their camp.

I don't think that that is true (except maybe for the real right-wingers - you'd know about them better than me).  Most non-right-wingers enjoy even cartoons lampooning the center and left, in my experience, but nobody enjoys political "cartoons" that lack subtlety or irony.  A heavy-handed political cartoonist is a bad political cartoonist, no matter who his or her audience is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 09, 2017, 06:42:41 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.onionstatic.com%2Fonion%2F5876%2F7%2Foriginal%2F800.jpg&hash=e61fb6aa49cfeaa0d0203862b71abce94a2efc4a)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2017, 06:47:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 09, 2017, 06:34:03 PM
I don't think that that is true (except maybe for the real right-wingers - you'd know about them better than me). 

:mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 09, 2017, 06:55:56 PM
Eddie gets outed, film at 11.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 09, 2017, 07:25:20 PM
Quote from: dps on October 08, 2017, 11:52:48 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 08, 2017, 08:54:41 PM
Too old, too fat

Yeah, Sosa's too old and too fat;  that's why he retired.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 12, 2017, 05:35:04 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F78.media.tumblr.com%2Fab8e30b13e2868ba55b824333fcc2653%2Ftumblr_inline_oxq3lnSQLU1ubi4j7_500.jpg&hash=c79e54fa876355abe1ba9f3566d16675ab0a2384)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on October 12, 2017, 06:07:21 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 12, 2017, 06:19:20 PM
I don't get it.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 12, 2017, 06:41:19 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 12, 2017, 06:19:20 PM
I don't get it.  :sleep:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/this-is-fine
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 12, 2017, 06:47:28 PM
That's not bad then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 12, 2017, 11:49:00 PM
It's fine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on October 13, 2017, 12:43:16 PM
(https://pics.me.me/ustwhen-you-think-parening-ro-cant-get-any-harderl-yourkid-27994168.png)

My youngest brother had a flute-a-phone.  I think those are actually worse because you can get more sound out of their whistle.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 13, 2017, 07:40:50 PM
No band shit for my kids.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 13, 2017, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 13, 2017, 07:40:50 PM
No band shit for my kids.

That's because Daddy knows what goes on at band camp.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 13, 2017, 10:40:06 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 13, 2017, 07:40:50 PM
No band shit for my kids.


So, will you be buying bagpipes and hurdy-gurdies for everyone?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 18, 2017, 01:50:04 AM
QuoteSo many women are posting #MeToo because they were sexually abused or harassed.

I think most men are seeing these "me too" posts and thinking, "Not me! I never abused a woman." Not so fast bro, take another moment before you give yourself a pass.
I think most men have crossed a woman's boundaries at some point in their lives. I have crossed women's boundaries on many occasions in my life. I am not proud of it. Actually, I had no idea how much shame and guilt I was holding onto until I looked at it.

I have pressured women into having sex with me through emotional manipulation many times. I have had sex with women who were too drunk. Even with consistent partners, I know there were times she didn't want to have sex, but went with it anyway just to please me.

The truth is that if a woman does not feel 100% safe in a sexual experience, it is traumatic for her. It's can still be true even when people are in a relationship.

So here's the main point. If an experience is traumatic for the woman, it is also traumatic for the man. But men have a really hard time looking at this. Abuser is the last thing we ever want to be labeled as.

As men we categorize "sexual abusers" as pedophiles or rapists, but these are the extreme examples. Because we do not want to go anywhere near those categories, we fail to accept that we have ever crossed a woman's boundaries on any level. And this is incredibly damaging to us, because if we have traumatized a women in any way though a sexual experience, we are holding onto massive amounts of shame and guilt.

So I want to challenge my brothers to look at this. I had no idea how much this was affecting me until I looked at it. And after I did, I began to tell my story to the women in my life. And sure enough, the guilt began to release. They understood I had acted out of ignorance. Through this process, I was able to forgive myself.

So this is where I want to take the conversation. We must seek to understand, not to be understood. Through understanding we find forgiveness. Through forgiveness, we find peace.

I love you all,

John

P.S. The photo is from my sophomore year of college when I thought I was a really cool bro and had lots of backward hats in my closet.

So I saw this on FB being shared and thought: 1) wow, you were a terrible person and 2) why do we care about the shame and guilt you felt that you've released as you come to terms with how terrible you were?

Of course, response to this post is that this man is great for having recognized and spoken up about his past flaws.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2017, 02:01:49 AM
Yeah terrible people trying to tar everyone with their filth just so they can feel better about themselves doesn't strike me as very attractive. And trying to make having sex with someone who only does it to please you in any way equivalent to taking advantage of someone too drunk is BS. I've had sex with people when I didn't really feel like it just to please them, that shit may be tedious but it's not traumatic.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 06:40:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 18, 2017, 01:50:04 AM
So I saw this on FB being shared and thought: 1) wow, you were a terrible person and 2) why do we care about the shame and guilt you felt that you've released as you come to terms with how terrible you were?

3) What are the statutes of limitations for sexual misconduct in your state of residency?

QuoteOf course, response to this post is that this man is great for having recognized and spoken up about his past flaws.

I'm sure that will make him feel better as the lawsuits get going.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2017, 07:48:43 AM
What so he whined to a woman that he wanted sex and she gave in to shut him up and this was unsafe sexual abuse? I mean surely we are all not this fragile that that is some sort of traumatic event. But his vagueness on what it was he did that was so guilt inducing makes it hard to know what he is navel gazing about. Well I guess the drunk thing was bad...maybe...again he is vague.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on October 18, 2017, 08:32:17 AM
Nice to see a bunch of dudes opining on sexual abuse and harassment, just what we all needed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 18, 2017, 08:36:09 AM
Quote from: sbr on October 18, 2017, 08:32:17 AM
Nice to see a bunch of dudes opining on sexual abuse and harassment, just what we all needed.

You're right, we should go back to pretending such things never happen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2017, 08:39:05 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 18, 2017, 08:36:09 AM
Quote from: sbr on October 18, 2017, 08:32:17 AM
Nice to see a bunch of dudes opining on sexual abuse and harassment, just what we all needed.

You're right, we should go back to pretending such things never happen.

When was this exactly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 18, 2017, 08:44:20 AM
Quote from: sbr on October 18, 2017, 08:32:17 AM
Nice to see a bunch of dudes opining on sexual abuse and harassment, just what we all needed.

All the young dudes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on October 18, 2017, 09:08:22 AM
Quote from: sbr on October 18, 2017, 08:32:17 AM
Nice to see a bunch of dudes opining on sexual abuse and harassment, just what we all needed.

We are almost entirely all dudes here.  Our choices are to talk about it or not talk about it.  If there's a third alternative please let me know.

I don't think anybody has claimed they are particularly insightful on the topic (except maybe that facebook dude who isn't a poster here, and was mostly being mocked). 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2017, 09:12:36 AM
I was not mocking him. I was just not very clear what he was saying. He vaguely did some bad things and I guess went to the people he felt he had hurt and delt with it. Very 12 steps of him.

But if whining for something until you get it is abuse I need to report parent abuse. Granted I don't know about the relationship in question, maybe the woman in question felt like if she did not give him he would get violent or something. It is vague without much information besides to suggest that even if you don't think you traumatized somebody you might have anyway.

In the spirit of Joan of Arc I will just say: If I have traumatized somebody may I be forgiven and if I have not may I continue to not do so.

Edit: Oh wait did he not talk to the women he felt like he had hurt but rather 'women in his life'. Or is that what he meant? Again not sure. Going to talk to somebody about something I did to somebody else just because they resembled the other person in some way seems odd.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 18, 2017, 09:20:29 AM
His first premise is sound tho.

My facebook feed is full of #metoo & I'm wondering from all these girls I knew in high school, who was it? Was it me? I don't know the answer to that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2017, 09:21:48 AM
Quote from: DoucheI think most men have crossed a woman's boundaries at some point in their lives.

He's trying to normalize abuse. "I'm a douche and so is everyone else!" He's half right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2017, 09:22:15 AM
They did this five years ago or so with #yesallwomen so...yeah be careful out there. Not that most of us need to worry about this sort of thing anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2017, 09:23:58 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 18, 2017, 09:21:48 AM
Quote from: DoucheI think most men have crossed a woman's boundaries at some point in their lives.

He's trying to normalize abuse. "I'm a douche and so is everyone else!" He's half right.

Yeah that is a good point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 09:55:50 AM
I dunno - I get kind of frustrated at these sort of social media campaigns.

I saw a #metoo come up on my Facebook feed from a woman I know.  She went on to explain two incidents... one of which was a man said "she looked sexy" in a particular pose which made her feel uncomfortable.  I have no doubt it made her feel uncomfortable, but this constitutes sexual harassment?

I get frustrated because I know that all kinds of crazy sexual abuse and assault does go on in this world!  I do believe women.  I've prosecuted dozens of sex assaults.  But there has to be some kind of objective standard about what does constitute abuse or harassment.  In the criminal world harassment is behaviour which the offender knows will harass the victim, but continues with such behaviour.  An isolated comment does not apply.

But on the other hand, it is extremely valuable to re-assure victims that they are not alone.  Women really are told by their abusers "no one will ever believe you if you tell".  And we've seen the phenomenon at other times, and now again with Harvey Weinstein that once a critical mass is reached mroe and more women feel secure enough to come forward and tell their stories.

So... I've stared at this post for awhile before hitting send.  I don't really have a unifying "take" on the subject.  We do need to support abuse victims.  But not everyone who says they are an abuse victim really is one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2017, 10:01:07 AM
Yeah if the #metoo hashtag just means somebody did some creepy shit that made you feel uncomfortable then I have a few incidents myself.

But the problem is that this stuff is based on feelings which are subjective. You don't want to tell somebody they are wrong for feeling a certain way. So it gets complicated fast.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
When I told the doctor that I felt like the people on the city bus were reading my mind, I was told it was wrong to feel that way.  I admit, it was hurtful. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 11:14:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 09:55:50 AM
We do need to support abuse victims.  But not everyone who says they are an abuse victim really is one.

And feeling compelled to say that out loud accomplishes what useful and constructive purpose, exactly? Other than being a contrarian asshole, that is?

Fucking douchebag.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2017, 11:17:08 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 11:14:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 09:55:50 AM
We do need to support abuse victims.  But not everyone who says they are an abuse victim really is one.

And feeling compelled to say that out loud accomplishes what useful and constructive purpose, exactly? Other than being a contrarian asshole, that is?

Fucking douchebag.


Having a discussion about an important issue? I think many people have pointed out that problem and I have yet to hear a good solution. There might not be one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 18, 2017, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 11:14:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 09:55:50 AM
We do need to support abuse victims.  But not everyone who says they are an abuse victim really is one.

And feeling compelled to say that out loud accomplishes what useful and constructive purpose, exactly? Other than being a contrarian asshole, that is?

Fucking douchebag.

If there is no standard to what is or what is not abuse than we might as well just take your HC away & go back to being savages.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 11:29:26 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 11:14:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 09:55:50 AM
We do need to support abuse victims.  But not everyone who says they are an abuse victim really is one.

And feeling compelled to say that out loud accomplishes what useful and constructive purpose, exactly? Other than being a contrarian asshole, that is?

Fucking douchebag.

This is a discussion board.  Discussing any particular topic here doesn't serve any useful and constructive purpose beyond furthering the discussion.

Stupid fuckhead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 12:01:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 11:29:26 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 11:14:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 09:55:50 AM
We do need to support abuse victims.  But not everyone who says they are an abuse victim really is one.

And feeling compelled to say that out loud accomplishes what useful and constructive purpose, exactly? Other than being a contrarian asshole, that is?

Fucking douchebag.

This is a discussion board.  Discussing any particular topic here doesn't serve any useful and constructive purpose beyond furthering the discussion.

Stupid fuckhead.

I'm not talking about this stupid fucking board, you asschimp;  I talking about the acknowledgment of the greater discussion of abuse.  YES WE KNOW THERE EXISTS THE POSSIBILITY THAT NOT EVERY ABUSE VICTIM IS REALLY A VICTIM THANK YOU SHELDON but what does that do to actually advance the discussion, other than douchebagging shit up with arguments of equivalency?

You know, you're such a fan of fallacies, maybe you should've skipped lawl school and gone into medicine, so you could perform late-term abortions on logic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 12:11:35 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 12:01:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 11:29:26 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 11:14:42 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 09:55:50 AM
We do need to support abuse victims.  But not everyone who says they are an abuse victim really is one.

And feeling compelled to say that out loud accomplishes what useful and constructive purpose, exactly? Other than being a contrarian asshole, that is?

Fucking douchebag.

This is a discussion board.  Discussing any particular topic here doesn't serve any useful and constructive purpose beyond furthering the discussion.

Stupid fuckhead.

I'm not talking about this stupid fucking board, you asschimp;  I talking about the acknowledgment of the greater discussion of abuse.  YES WE KNOW THERE EXISTS THE POSSIBILITY THAT NOT EVERY ABUSE VICTIM IS REALLY A VICTIM THANK YOU SHELDON but what does that do to actually advance the discussion, other than douchebagging shit up with arguments of equivalency?

You know, you're such a fan of fallacies, maybe you should've skipped lawl school and gone into medicine, so you could perform late-term abortions on logic.

You seem upset Seedy.  You should try drinking a nice cup of chamomile tea.  It might help relax you. :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 18, 2017, 12:16:38 PM
late-term abortions on logic.

That's funny. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 18, 2017, 12:19:24 PM
Seedy needs to take up smoking again. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2017, 12:51:46 PM
despiess with his fucking attempted murder bullshit.



I could go for a Laramie right about now, though.  Ah, that smooth Carolina smoke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 18, 2017, 12:54:58 PM
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/0/0d/Laramie_Cigarettes.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/226?cb=20121113200618)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 18, 2017, 12:56:41 PM
The really tragic thing about rape accusations is that it forces people to pick sides without having the facts to analyze.  The three options are:

1)  You believe the accuser.  By doing that you are announcing that you consider the accused capable of raping someone.
2)  You don't believe the accuser.  By doing that you are announcing that you consider the accuser capable of slandering someone in the most awful way possible.
3)  You express ambivalence in some way or just not say anything.  By doing that you are accomplishing both of the above things.

There is no fourth option.  Any person that knows both parties is forced to make public what they believe about the character of the two parties, with the possibility of being wrong about it.

I don't know what can be done to solve this tragic dilemma.  You can't just say "always believe someone when they say they've been raped".  Maybe that's the lesser evil at this point in time, when it seems like the possibility of being disbelieved is so high that few women make false accusations.  However, when it becomes the norm to automatically believe rape accusations, then false accusations are going to become way more common.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2017, 01:54:39 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 18, 2017, 12:56:41 PM
The really tragic thing about rape accusations is that it forces people to pick sides without having the facts to analyze.  The three options are:

1)  You believe the accuser.  By doing that you are announcing that you consider the accused capable of raping someone.
2)  You don't believe the accuser.  By doing that you are announcing that you consider the accuser capable of slandering someone in the most awful way possible.
3)  You express ambivalence in some way or just not say anything.  By doing that you are accomplishing both of the above things.

There is no fourth option.  Any person that knows both parties is forced to make public what they believe about the character of the two parties, with the possibility of being wrong about it.

I don't know what can be done to solve this tragic dilemma.  You can't just say "always believe someone when they say they've been raped".  Maybe that's the lesser evil at this point in time, when it seems like the possibility of being disbelieved is so high that few women make false accusations.  However, when it becomes the norm to automatically believe rape accusations, then false accusations are going to become way more common.

The taking sides issue is true of all accusations ever.  What makes rape more difficult than most is that the act (having sex) is criminal or not based entirely on the mindset of the accused, and there often isn't evidence either way.  It is entirely possible for the accuser to sincerely believe themselves a victim of rape, and the accused sincerely believe themselves innocent of rape.  I'd say this latter state is probably pretty rare, but it's at least possible in a lot of cases.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 02:00:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2017, 01:54:39 PM
The taking sides issue is true of all accusations ever.  What makes rape more difficult than most is that the act (having sex) is criminal or not based entirely on the mindset of the accused, and there often isn't evidence either way.  It is entirely possible for the accuser to sincerely believe themselves a victim of rape, and the accused sincerely believe themselves innocent of rape.  I'd say this latter state is probably pretty rare, but it's at least possible in a lot of cases.

In my experience many rapists don't think that they're doing anything wrong.  They just don't see the lack of consent by the woman to be an issue.

Usually rape cases don't turn on the mindset of the Accused.  It turns on the mindset of the victim - did they consent to sex or not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 18, 2017, 02:05:10 PM
McKayla Maroney, of the not impressed fame, went public with accusations of being raped by team doctor for seven years.

Reading the Russian blogosphere about this story yet again reinforces my belief that Russian people exist just to remind people what a real life evil is.  About 95% of the comments are mocking of her and accusing her of wanting to cash in now that her career is done.  Even though most stories being commented on also state that the doctor she accuses of rape has already been accused by 100+ other people, and has already plead guilty to possessing tens of thousands of child porn images.

It kind of makes you think when someone famous with nothing to lose keeps quiet about such things until a Twitter campaign comes around and gives her courage.  The accused has already been in jail for a year and thoroughly disgraced, so really the only factor is the fear of exposing herself to public ridicule.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2017, 02:12:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 02:00:58 PM
In my experience many rapists don't think that they're doing anything wrong.  They just don't see the lack of consent by the woman to be an issue.

Usually rape cases don't turn on the mindset of the Accused.  It turns on the mindset of the victim - did they consent to sex or not.

Interesting.  In Canada guilt doesn't require mens rea?  Just the word of the accuser (which I notice you have changed to "victim" here in advance of any resolution)?  Seems a system ripe for abuse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2017, 02:12:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 02:00:58 PM
In my experience many rapists don't think that they're doing anything wrong.  They just don't see the lack of consent by the woman to be an issue.

Usually rape cases don't turn on the mindset of the Accused.  It turns on the mindset of the victim - did they consent to sex or not.

Interesting.  In Canada guilt doesn't require mens rea?  Just the word of the accuser (which I notice you have changed to "victim" here in advance of any resolution)?  Seems a system ripe for abuse.

That's your take-away?  That Canada has done away with the mens rea concept that underpins the entire common law? How very odd.

Sexual assault is a general intent offence.  The only intent required is that you intended to have sexual contact with someone, and that person did not consent.  So yes, if you slip and by accident your penis slips inside a woman then you're not guilty.  But you don't have to know you're committing a crime in order to have mens rea.

So, many sex assault trials turn on the victim's evidence.  If defence can raise a reasonable doubt that they did in fact consent, then the Accused is not guilty.

Now there is a defence of "honest but mistaken belief in consent".  Once the Crown has proven that the victim did not consent, defence can assert that the Accused thought she had consented.  There the Accused's mindset does come into question.  The Accused has to testify obviously, which is why many/most sex assault trials do not turn on this defence.  And the Accused not has to believe that the victim consented, but such belief has to be reasonable (i.e. if the victim repeatedly says no, stop, a belief in consent isn't going to be reasonable).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 18, 2017, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 02:29:02 PM
if you slip and by accident your penis slips inside a woman then you're not guilty

I think back to Martim posting about how Canadian women are the most rapeable women in the world. It is beginning to make sense now...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 18, 2017, 03:37:33 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 18, 2017, 02:05:10 PM
McKayla Maroney, of the not impressed fame, went public with accusations of being raped by team doctor for seven years.

Reading the Russian blogosphere about this story yet again reinforces my belief that Russian people exist just to remind people what a real life evil is.  About 95% of the comments are mocking of her and accusing her of wanting to cash in now that her career is done.  Even though most stories being commented on also state that the doctor she accuses of rape has already been accused by 100+ other people, and has already plead guilty to possessing tens of thousands of child porn images.

It kind of makes you think when someone famous with nothing to lose keeps quiet about such things until a Twitter campaign comes around and gives her courage.  The accused has already been in jail for a year and thoroughly disgraced, so really the only factor is the fear of exposing herself to public ridicule.

I don't understand what you are saying. 1) Things started taking off because of Weinstein and the twitter campaign is just aspect of that.

2) I can totally see not wanting to say anything until there's a huge groundswell. Individually, you are going to take a lot of abuse and when there is an opportunity for less abuse when you finally speak your truth, sounds like a good time.  I mean it has to be awful to sit on that kind of secret knowing that if you speak up, you are going to be the one attacked.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 18, 2017, 03:46:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 18, 2017, 03:37:33 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 18, 2017, 02:05:10 PM
McKayla Maroney, of the not impressed fame, went public with accusations of being raped by team doctor for seven years.

Reading the Russian blogosphere about this story yet again reinforces my belief that Russian people exist just to remind people what a real life evil is.  About 95% of the comments are mocking of her and accusing her of wanting to cash in now that her career is done.  Even though most stories being commented on also state that the doctor she accuses of rape has already been accused by 100+ other people, and has already plead guilty to possessing tens of thousands of child porn images.

It kind of makes you think when someone famous with nothing to lose keeps quiet about such things until a Twitter campaign comes around and gives her courage.  The accused has already been in jail for a year and thoroughly disgraced, so really the only factor is the fear of exposing herself to public ridicule.

I don't understand what you are saying. 1) Things started taking off because of Weinstein and the twitter campaign is just aspect of that.

2) I can totally see not wanting to say anything until there's a huge groundswell. Individually, you are going to take a lot of abuse and when there is an opportunity for less abuse when you finally speak your truth, sounds like a good time.  I mean it has to be awful to sit on that kind of secret knowing that if you speak up, you are going to be the one attacked.
Clearly you don't understand what I'm saying, but I don't understand why that is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 18, 2017, 03:57:47 PM
Well you could just explain to me what you meant in the last paragraph. I'm not sure what it makes you think, clearly. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 18, 2017, 04:10:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 18, 2017, 03:57:47 PM
Well you could just explain to me what you meant in the last paragraph. I'm not sure what it makes you think, clearly. :D
I thought it was pretty clear, but maybe I was mistaken.  It's an individual example of the great reluctance of women to go public with rape accusations, and how it comes about that so many men can rape scores of women for decades without being exposed publicly.  Maroney is a media darling, her abuser would have absolutely zero credibility to deny the abuse, and being retired she's no longer vulnerable to retaliation.  Even all that was not enough, it had to take a viral Twitter campaign to move her to speak out.  Now imagine what it's like for women that have none of these advantages Maroney had.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 18, 2017, 04:10:58 PM
Oh yeah, agreed entirely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 04:14:42 PM
Yeah, I thought that was a good take DG.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2017, 05:54:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2017, 02:29:02 PM
That's your take-away?  That Canada has done away with the mens rea concept that underpins the entire common law? How very odd. 

Yes, I found it extremely odd myself, to hear a prosecutor argue that "rape cases don't turn on the mindset of the Accused."  The accused mindset is called mens rea.  I would have thought that a professional prosecutor would have known that.  It is, after all, the concept that underpins the entire common law.

QuoteSexual assault is a general intent offence.  The only intent required is that you intended to have sexual contact with someone, and that person did not consent.  So yes, if you slip and by accident your penis slips inside a woman then you're not guilty.  But you don't have to know you're committing a crime in order to have mens rea.

So, many sex assault trials turn on the victim's evidence.  If defence can raise a reasonable doubt that they did in fact consent, then the Accused is not guilty.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.  That does not address my point at all.

QuoteNow there is a defence of "honest but mistaken belief in consent".  Once the Crown has proven that the victim did not consent, defence can assert that the Accused thought she had consented.  There the Accused's mindset does come into question.  The Accused has to testify obviously, which is why many/most sex assault trials do not turn on this defence.  And the Accused not has to believe that the victim consented, but such belief has to be reasonable (i.e. if the victim repeatedly says no, stop, a belief in consent isn't going to be reasonable).

You cannot have my argument.  This is the very argument that I started with, and you objected to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 20, 2017, 12:27:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MuMdfsv.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 12:37:19 PM
I am a little weary of the image of Jesus thing. The iconography of Jesus comes from roughly the same part of the world Jesus himself did, just a few centuries later.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 20, 2017, 12:45:01 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2017, 05:54:34 PM
You cannot have my argument.  This is the very argument that I started with, and you objected to.

BB said, "In my experience many rapists don't think that they're doing anything wrong.  They just don't see the lack of consent by the woman to be an issue."

If your argument was that a person who doesn't see lack of consent as a problem can still make out a case of honest but mistaken belief, then you need to read a bit more law before going after a prosecutor who does this sort of thing as his day job.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 20, 2017, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 12:37:19 PM
I am a little weary of the image of Jesus thing. The iconography of Jesus comes from roughly the same part of the world Jesus himself did, just a few centuries later.

You might consider that people are talking about all the art produced from the middle ages on depicting Jesus as a long haired white dude.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 12:49:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2017, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 12:37:19 PM
I am a little weary of the image of Jesus thing. The iconography of Jesus comes from roughly the same part of the world Jesus himself did, just a few centuries later.

You might consider that people are talking about all the art depicting Jesus as a long haired white dude.

Here is a 6th century image of Jesus from Byzantine Egypt:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Menas.jpg)

It is a long haired white dude. Take it up with Jesus's neighbors descendants if they got it wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 20, 2017, 12:51:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 12:49:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2017, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 12:37:19 PM
I am a little weary of the image of Jesus thing. The iconography of Jesus comes from roughly the same part of the world Jesus himself did, just a few centuries later.

You might consider that people are talking about all the art depicting Jesus as a long haired white dude.

Here is a 6th century image of Jesus from Byzantine Egypt:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Menas.jpg)

It is a long haired white dude. Take it up with Jesus's neighbors descendants if they got it wrong.

Sure, but I doubt many from Western Europe or North America, have that image in mind when they think of Jesus - much more likely they are thinking about paintings in the Roman Catholic and later Protestant traditions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2017, 01:03:10 PM
Jesus wasn't white now? Which color was He these days?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 20, 2017, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 20, 2017, 01:03:10 PM
Jesus wasn't white now? Which color was He these days?

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/532502cfe4b06acf70710bff/t/53ecbd4ce4b0eb021af04a79/1408023888802/?format=750w)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 20, 2017, 01:20:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 12:49:05 PM
It is a long haired white dude. Take it up with Jesus's neighbors descendants if they got it wrong.

Yeah I think you're missing the point though about what makes the Nazi types queasy.  It's not the prospect of Jesus as a Nubian.  More that he's a hook-nose, a Red Sea pedestrian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 20, 2017, 01:20:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 12:49:05 PM
It is a long haired white dude. Take it up with Jesus's neighbors descendants if they got it wrong.

Yeah I think you're missing the point though about what makes the Nazi types queasy.  It's not the prospect of Jesus as a Nubian.  More that he's a hook-nose, a Red Sea pedestrian.

It is very possible that my typical problem when dealing with this race thing (trying to figure out what makes somebody a certain race and who qualifies and who doesn't) is indeed the problem :P

Like: why aren't Iranians white? To my eyes they look like white people. But they aren't. For reasons. Or are they? Who knows.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Like: why aren't Iranians white? To my eyes they look like white people. But they aren't. For reasons. Or are they? Who knows.

Iranians are no more white than Greeks or Spaniards are. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 20, 2017, 01:29:58 PM
For some White means Anglo-Saxons. I wouldn't even qualify.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on October 20, 2017, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Like: why aren't Iranians white? To my eyes they look like white people. But they aren't. For reasons. Or are they? Who knows.

Iranians are no more white than Greeks or Spaniards are. :rolleyes:
Or Slavs, don't forget the Slavs
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 01:41:40 PM
Quote from: katmai on October 20, 2017, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Like: why aren't Iranians white? To my eyes they look like white people. But they aren't. For reasons. Or are they? Who knows.

Iranians are no more white than Greeks or Spaniards are. :rolleyes:
Or Slavs, don't forget the Slavs

Slavs are very fair in skin tone. :huh:  :goodboy:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on October 20, 2017, 01:42:07 PM
Quote from: katmai on October 20, 2017, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Like: why aren't Iranians white? To my eyes they look like white people. But they aren't. For reasons. Or are they? Who knows.

Iranians are no more white than Greeks or Spaniards are. :rolleyes:
Or Slavs, don't forget the Slavs

Plus they smell like beets.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 20, 2017, 01:42:07 PM
Quote from: katmai on October 20, 2017, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Like: why aren't Iranians white? To my eyes they look like white people. But they aren't. For reasons. Or are they? Who knows.

Iranians are no more white than Greeks or Spaniards are. :rolleyes:
Or Slavs, don't forget the Slavs

Plus they smell like beets.

Delicious, delicious beets. :mmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 20, 2017, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Like: why aren't Iranians white? To my eyes they look like white people. But they aren't. For reasons. Or are they? Who knows.

Iranians are no more white than Greeks or Spaniards are. :rolleyes:

Or Ukranians  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 20, 2017, 02:15:31 PM
 :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2017, 02:26:23 PM
Are North Germanics white? I'm asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2017, 02:29:33 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 20, 2017, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Like: why aren't Iranians white? To my eyes they look like white people. But they aren't. For reasons. Or are they? Who knows.

Iranians are no more white than Greeks or Spaniards are. :rolleyes:

Or Ukranians Russians  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 20, 2017, 05:28:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 20, 2017, 01:20:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2017, 12:49:05 PM
It is a long haired white dude. Take it up with Jesus's neighbors descendants if they got it wrong.

Yeah I think you're missing the point though about what makes the Nazi types queasy.  It's not the prospect of Jesus as a Nubian.  More that he's a hook-nose, a Red Sea pedestrian.

It is very possible that my typical problem when dealing with this race thing (trying to figure out what makes somebody a certain race and who qualifies and who doesn't) is indeed the problem :P

Like: why aren't Iranians white? To my eyes they look like white people. But they aren't. For reasons. Or are they? Who knows.

If you subscribe to the theory that there are 3 human races, then Iranians are Caucasians, and so, yeah, therefore white.  If you think there are more than 3 races, then Iranians may or may not be Caucasians. If you think that race is purely a social construct, and therefore apparently there are no observable physical differences between an Australian aborigine and a Norwegian, then you're grumbler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 20, 2017, 05:30:49 PM
Is there a whole race of grumblers?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 20, 2017, 09:12:09 PM
Quote from: dps on October 20, 2017, 05:28:48 PM
If you subscribe to the theory that there are 3 human races, then Iranians are Caucasians, and so, yeah, therefore white.  If you think there are more than 3 races, then Iranians may or may not be Caucasians. If you think that race is purely a social construct, and therefore apparently there are no observable physical differences between an Australian aborigine and a Norwegian, then you're grumbler.

And if you believe that no statement is complete without a completely bullshit strawman argument, you are dps.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 20, 2017, 09:12:41 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 20, 2017, 05:30:49 PM
Is there a whole race of grumblers?

It's a footrace of grumblers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 20, 2017, 09:16:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 20, 2017, 05:30:49 PM
Is there a whole race of grumblers?

(https://www.runnersworld.com/sites/runnersworld.com/files/rt/images/200104/mas1.gif)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 20, 2017, 10:20:27 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 20, 2017, 09:16:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 20, 2017, 05:30:49 PM
Is there a whole race of grumblers?

(https://www.runnersworld.com/sites/runnersworld.com/files/rt/images/200104/mas1.gif)

And from his younger days...

(https://www.privatetoursathens.com/datafiles/285.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 20, 2017, 11:36:52 PM
Lulz to both of you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2017, 11:41:13 PM
I'm glad the grumblers have adopted clothing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 21, 2017, 01:57:15 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2017, 11:41:13 PM
I'm glad the grumblers have adopted clothing.

Me, too!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 22, 2017, 10:41:26 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2017, 11:41:13 PM
I'm glad the grumblers have adopted clothing.
Probably not as glad as the second place grumbler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 23, 2017, 03:26:49 PM
Fuck facebook and its donate your birthday to get your friends to donate to a cause. It is my fucking day, bitches!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 23, 2017, 03:36:44 PM
#30?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 23, 2017, 03:37:22 PM
I'm turning 29 again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 23, 2017, 03:40:08 PM
Oh well happy birthday then. :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 23, 2017, 03:40:35 PM
Well not today!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 24, 2017, 05:56:35 PM
EA kills singleplayer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZWDTLsQhEk&feature=youtu.be&a=
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 24, 2017, 07:00:46 PM
Lol.

:(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 24, 2017, 07:58:53 PM
Pretty accurate. Man it is something to see all those names of once great developers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2017, 08:06:48 PM
Games these days are very creative at finding ways to wring a couple more dollars out of you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 24, 2017, 08:30:00 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2017, 08:06:48 PM
Games these days are very creative at finding ways to wring a couple more dollars out of you.

Much easier to do in multi-player to get those micro-transactions and loot boxes out there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 24, 2017, 08:33:53 PM
Battlefield4 had weapons unlocks you couldn't use in MP without unlocking them in SP, though.  But, wait long enough and they'll be in DLC.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 24, 2017, 08:35:04 PM
Bring back Battlefield 1942
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 24, 2017, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 24, 2017, 08:35:04 PM
Bring back Battlefield 1942

I was using a game server browser a while back, and noticed that all the games servers being used for Battlefield: Vietnam were all in Japan.  Hmmmm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 24, 2017, 08:40:44 PM
ME LUV YOU LONG TIME. 2 DOLLA GIJOE!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 25, 2017, 08:35:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 24, 2017, 08:30:00 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2017, 08:06:48 PM
Games these days are very creative at finding ways to wring a couple more dollars out of you.

Much easier to do in multi-player to get those micro-transactions and loot boxes out there.

Must find the whales. True in mobile games, true with normal games now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2017, 10:21:32 AM
I did not know Steve Bannon ran the largest gold farmer company in World of Warcraft.  Or maybe I did and chose to ignore it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 25, 2017, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2017, 10:21:32 AM
I did not know Steve Bannon ran the largest gold farmer company in World of Warcraft.  Or maybe I did and chose to ignore it.

No wonder he wants to nuke China.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 26, 2017, 12:47:41 PM
(https://am12.akamaized.net/med/cnt/uploads/2017/10/DMisGdNVQAAOWrp.jpg)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myconfinedspace.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F10%2Fa-bit-more-complimentary.jpg&hash=dc6e3e9f61279627c1aa169ed46c2bf4e94e6581)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 30, 2017, 12:52:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iNI3UiP.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Ed Anger on October 31, 2017, 08:46:36 PM
Quote15,000 Troops perish after Ohio woman fails to share Facebook prayer

WASHINGTON — The US military suffered the single worst day loss since the Battle of Antietam yesterday, after a woman scanning Facebook over her morning latte ignored a prayer chain for deployed service members that resulted in instant death for over 15,000 military personnel.

Word broke late last night, and the Pentagon confirmed that Maureen Lieberman's decision to scan past the prayer request while catching up on her news feed had caused the violent combustion of every armed forces member within a 200-mile radius of northeastern Ohio.

"What we know right now is that an American woman in Ohio decided that Coin Master and Disney princess cat videos were more important than keeping our brave fighting men and women alive," said Dana White, a Pentagon spokeswoman. "It was an unimaginable tragedy that could have been avoided if she simply grasped the critical importance of Facebook nonsense."


Several GoFundMe pages have been set up by family and friends of the deceased, with amounts already nearing $10,000. A similar page for Ms. Liebermann established by the Elks Club of Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio has seen funds soar well past the $80,000 mark.

"I hope it's not too late to fix this, you know?" Lieberman said. "I usually forward those on, with an angel emoji and those little prayer hands, but I get so distracted when I happen upon videos of kittens licking each other. Is there somewhere I can send the boys some casserole for the mix up?"



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on November 07, 2017, 01:43:40 PM
In case there were any doubts about the "undercurrents" of the current GOP:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.nj.com%2Fhome%2Fnjo-media%2Fwidth600%2Fimg%2Fmiddlesex_impact%2Fphoto%2Fedison-campaing-mailerjpg-302ce13178b65bfb.jpg&hash=9be2e01ea9dabeba244912d818b1b8206568ddc2)

(https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.14702367.1509483967!/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/landscape_768/image.jpeg)

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/richmond.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/4f/04f38d36-a6db-55f2-bff6-c377369a680b/59e91615ae163.image.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 07, 2017, 02:12:40 PM
Cricket fields!  :o

Bunch of racist morons...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on November 07, 2017, 02:28:21 PM
Cricket fields  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 07, 2017, 02:50:22 PM
... and the guy in the lower ad appears to be holding a Cricket Bat!

Really, that's what this is all about: making America safe ... from the horrors of Cricket.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2017, 04:42:26 PM
Cricket fields.

"If you build it, they will bowl."


Heaven forbid people wear nice sweaters around here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on November 07, 2017, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 07, 2017, 02:50:22 PM
... and the guy in the lower ad appears to be holding a Cricket Bat!

Really, that's what this is all about: making America safe ... from the horrors of Cricket.  :hmm:

clearly you've never been beaten by a two-by-four before :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 07, 2017, 05:31:30 PM
Quote from: HVC on November 07, 2017, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 07, 2017, 02:50:22 PM
... and the guy in the lower ad appears to be holding a Cricket Bat!

Really, that's what this is all about: making America safe ... from the horrors of Cricket.  :hmm:

clearly you've never been beaten by a two-by-four before :P

I've never played Cricket either.  :P

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 07, 2017, 06:38:22 PM
Smug Canadians looking down on Cricket!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2017, 07:11:22 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 07, 2017, 01:43:40 PM

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.nj.com%2Fhome%2Fnjo-media%2Fwidth600%2Fimg%2Fmiddlesex_impact%2Fphoto%2Fedison-campaing-mailerjpg-302ce13178b65bfb.jpg&hash=9be2e01ea9dabeba244912d818b1b8206568ddc2)

So much for 'model minorities'.

I mean one would generally think it would be a good thing for Indians and Chinese to take over our schools. We aren't doing a great job with them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 07, 2017, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 07, 2017, 02:12:40 PM
Cricket fields!  :o

Bunch of racist morons...

:lol:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on November 07, 2017, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2017, 07:11:22 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 07, 2017, 01:43:40 PM

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.nj.com%2Fhome%2Fnjo-media%2Fwidth600%2Fimg%2Fmiddlesex_impact%2Fphoto%2Fedison-campaing-mailerjpg-302ce13178b65bfb.jpg&hash=9be2e01ea9dabeba244912d818b1b8206568ddc2)

So much for 'model minorities'.

I mean one would generally think it would be a good thing for Indians and Chinese to take over our schools. We aren't doing a great job with them.

:D I'd love my future hypothetical kid to go to a school with a large east Asian and Indian population.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 07, 2017, 09:29:07 PM
That bullshit really turns my stomach.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2017, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: Camerus on November 07, 2017, 08:24:49 PM
:D I'd love my future hypothetical kid to go to a school with a large east Asian and Indian population.

https://youtu.be/oqDX55kyA9M

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 08, 2017, 08:09:40 AM
Apparently both won  :)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 08, 2017, 09:17:01 AM
Excellent, America deserves a strong Cricket fields development.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: sbr on November 08, 2017, 09:39:36 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2017, 08:09:40 AM
Apparently both won  :)

All 4 candidates mentiined in the posters Jacob posted last page won.

Also an open trans woman beat the author of the VA bathroom bill.  The boyfriend of a gun victim beat a candidate with an A rating from NRA .  Civil rights attorney who sued police departments won DA of Philadelphia.

Lots of good stuff happened last night.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on November 09, 2017, 02:00:43 PM
Apparently Trump-care is doing really well right now: https://youtu.be/mlZNmtZdTlg

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/359011-obamacare-signups-surge-in-early-days-to-set-new-record?amp
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 04:35:29 PM
A buddy of mine from fraternity days posted a long screed about how the Weinstein effect is becoming a witchhunt, and while Louis CK is a pervert and pathetic, he's now the subject of a "neo-puritanical witch hunt for any behaviour deemed even borderline risky or offensive."

*sigh*

And normally my FB feed is surprisingly drama-free.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 10, 2017, 06:05:32 PM
While it's fine that sexual abusers are being called out, the only thing that bothers me about it is that in most of the cases there is either is no legal due process, or that the media coverage doesn't/wont care about it by the time it gets to that point (if it ever does). 

It does almost create some kind of sense that having enough accusers is enough to bring someone down (even those who deserve to be so)...with no care about whether or not is ever proven legally.  The mayor of Seattle was brought down this way recently as well.

Are most of the accusations true, and do these guys deserve what they get?  Yeah, most likely.  Does it bother me that most of the consequences they are suffering are coming without any legal due process?  Yes, and it should bother a society based on law too...but that doesn't appear to be bothering anyone at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2017, 06:15:25 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 10, 2017, 06:05:32 PM
While it's fine that sexual abusers are being called out, the only thing that bothers me about it is that in most of the cases there is either is no legal due process, or that the media coverage doesn't/wont care about it by the time it gets to that point (if it ever does). 

It does almost create some kind of sense that having enough accusers is enough to bring someone down (even those who deserve to be so)...with no care about whether or not is ever proven legally.  The mayor of Seattle was brought down this way recently as well.

Are most of the accusations true, and do these guys deserve what they get?  Yeah, most likely.  Does it bother me that most of the consequences they are suffering are coming without any legal due process?  Yes, and it should bother a society based on law too...but that doesn't appear to be bothering anyone at all.

The consequences they are suffering are commercial, not legal.  As long as consumers are free to spend their money on whatever they want, what you described will continue.

Surely it wouldn't make any sense to require people to continue watching House of Cards or Louis CK's comedy shows until they are proven guilty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 10, 2017, 07:01:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2017, 06:15:25 PM
The consequences they are suffering are commercial, not legal.  As long as consumers are free to spend their money on whatever they want, what you described will continue.

It's fair that with most of these cases, my point will be a weak one...especially in the cases (such as Louis CK's) where it doesn't appear the accusations were even made in order to bring about criminal consequences...and even more so when the accused admits their transgression (hanging themselves, as it were).  My concern perhaps might be better expressed as a concern about creating a climate where a simple accusation is enough, even if denied and absent proof.

Easy to not care when the accused is likely guilty...but the tragedy is that we'll also similarly not care in a potential case where one is not.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2017, 06:15:25 PM
Surely it wouldn't make any sense to require people to continue watching House of Cards or Louis CK's comedy shows until they are proven guilty.

It's easy to make such a point and beat it down when no had suggested it. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2017, 07:07:01 PM
No it's not.  It damn hard work to look this god every day.

Seriously, it's a point which follows from the position that there should be no commercial consequences for as yet unproven allegations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 10, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
It seems like all the ones I'm seeing taking a tumble had rumours about their behavior for years. Doesn't seem for the most part just one accuser taking them down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on November 10, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
It seems like all the ones I'm seeing taking a tumble had rumours about their behavior for years. Doesn't seem for the most part just one accuser taking them down.

Yea. If it was know about CK, why is it just now coming out. He's a low power player.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 10, 2017, 07:52:41 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 10, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
Yea. If it was know about CK, why is it just now coming out. He's a low power player.

There's a difference between the studio world and the comedy writing and road standup club world.  He's not Seinfeld, but he's become exponentially more influential than his peers the last 10 years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on November 10, 2017, 08:19:07 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 10, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
It seems like all the ones I'm seeing taking a tumble had rumours about their behavior for years. Doesn't seem for the most part just one accuser taking them down.

Yea. If it was know about CK, why is it just now coming out. He's a low power player.
I read an article about it a while ago.  While the article sucked, the point seemed to be that CK was a fairly well known user and abuser of women and female comics in particular and was being shielded by the comedy community from being publicly shamed and outed for his actions.  It seems that a lot of the willingness to remain complicit in the burying of sexual misconduct by the community is falling apart.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on November 10, 2017, 08:29:19 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on November 10, 2017, 08:19:07 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 10, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 10, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
It seems like all the ones I'm seeing taking a tumble had rumours about their behavior for years. Doesn't seem for the most part just one accuser taking them down.

Yea. If it was know about CK, why is it just now coming out. He's a low power player.
I read an article about it a while ago.  While the article sucked, the point seemed to be that CK was a fairly well known user and abuser of women and female comics in particular and was being shielded by the comedy community from being publicly shamed and outed for his actions.  It seems that a lot of the willingness to remain complicit in the burying of sexual misconduct by the community is falling apart.

They are just as complicit. They should be outed also.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 10, 2017, 09:34:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 10, 2017, 07:07:01 PM
No it's not.  It damn hard work to look this god every day.

Seriously, it's a point which follows from the position that there should be no commercial consequences for as yet unproven allegations.

As you are the only one suggesting that position, I will continue to let you argue with yourself.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 10, 2017, 10:41:40 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 10, 2017, 06:05:32 PM
While it's fine that sexual abusers are being called out, the only thing that bothers me about it is that in most of the cases there is either is no legal due process, or that the media coverage doesn't/wont care about it by the time it gets to that point (if it ever does). 

It does almost create some kind of sense that having enough accusers is enough to bring someone down (even those who deserve to be so)...with no care about whether or not is ever proven legally.  The mayor of Seattle was brought down this way recently as well.

Are most of the accusations true, and do these guys deserve what they get?  Yeah, most likely.  Does it bother me that most of the consequences they are suffering are coming without any legal due process?  Yes, and it should bother a society based on law too...but that doesn't appear to be bothering anyone at all.

I basically agree. The internet mob justice thing is dangerous as hell.

At least so far it has been directed at obviously guilty people, so far as the sex stuff that is.

I do feel like Spacey is getting it a bit harder than he deserves but hey.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 11, 2017, 02:19:51 AM
George Takei now has an accuser.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 11, 2017, 07:42:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 11, 2017, 02:19:51 AM
George Takei now has an accuser.

THIS HAS GONE TOO FAR
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 11, 2017, 09:18:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 10, 2017, 10:41:40 PM

While it's fine that sexual abusers are being called out, the only thing that bothers me about it is that in most of the cases there is either is no legal due process, or that the media coverage doesn't/wont care about it by the time it gets to that point (if it ever does). 
.......


There's already a body count, a senior Welsh politican committed suicide after allegations were made against him; his party, Welsh labour basically hung him out to dry:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41953430 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41953430)

Quote

Family critical of Carl Sargeant allegations inquiry

11 November 2017

Carl Sargeant died on Tuesday after an investigation was launched into his conduct

The family of Carl Sargeant has criticised a decision to use a Welsh official to set up an inquiry on how allegations against him were handled.

The AM for Alyn and Deeside was found dead four days after he was sacked from the Welsh Government cabinet by Wales' First Minister Carwyn Jones.

Mr Sargeant was being investigated over claims of "touching or groping" and is understood to have taken his own life.

His family want the inquiry established by a civil servant from outside Wales.
....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 11, 2017, 09:59:44 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 10, 2017, 06:05:32 PM
While it's fine that sexual abusers are being called out, the only thing that bothers me about it is that in most of the cases there is either is no legal due process, or that the media coverage doesn't/wont care about it by the time it gets to that point (if it ever does). 

It does almost create some kind of sense that having enough accusers is enough to bring someone down (even those who deserve to be so)...with no care about whether or not is ever proven legally.  The mayor of Seattle was brought down this way recently as well.

Are most of the accusations true, and do these guys deserve what they get?  Yeah, most likely.  Does it bother me that most of the consequences they are suffering are coming without any legal due process?  Yes, and it should bother a society based on law too...but that doesn't appear to be bothering anyone at all.

I don't agree in the least.

The consequences for acting like an asshole douchebag are often not legal in nature. Being an asshole or douchebag is actually not even illegal sometimes.

The sum of valid bad things that can happen to you as a reasonable response to your own actions are not bounded by the legal system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 11, 2017, 01:01:33 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 11, 2017, 09:59:44 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 10, 2017, 06:05:32 PM
While it's fine that sexual abusers are being called out, the only thing that bothers me about it is that in most of the cases there is either is no legal due process, or that the media coverage doesn't/wont care about it by the time it gets to that point (if it ever does). 

It does almost create some kind of sense that having enough accusers is enough to bring someone down (even those who deserve to be so)...with no care about whether or not is ever proven legally.  The mayor of Seattle was brought down this way recently as well.

Are most of the accusations true, and do these guys deserve what they get?  Yeah, most likely.  Does it bother me that most of the consequences they are suffering are coming without any legal due process?  Yes, and it should bother a society based on law too...but that doesn't appear to be bothering anyone at all.

I don't agree in the least.

The consequences for acting like an asshole douchebag are often not legal in nature. Being an asshole or douchebag is actually not even illegal sometimes.

The sum of valid bad things that can happen to you as a reasonable response to your own actions are not bounded by the legal system.
I don't think that was his point.  I think everyone understands that the consequences of being an asshole can be extra-judicial, and that is precisely what people are uneasy about, as such consequences can be devastating.  Humans have tended to reserve devastating comeuppances for naughty actions for the legal system, partly to give some protection against unfair outcomes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 11, 2017, 01:22:51 PM
I thought his point was more that it's possible for people to be wrongfully accused, and while the legal system has some protections for the falsely accused, the court of public opinion really doesn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 11, 2017, 04:16:11 PM
Quote from: dps on November 11, 2017, 01:22:51 PM
I thought his point was more that it's possible for people to be wrongfully accused, and while the legal system has some protections for the falsely accused, the court of public opinion really doesn't.

This is certainly a concern.

What is disturbing, is the notion that the court of public opinion is making up for the failures of the legal system - which is a charge that has much truth to it. 

Most of these guys were never charged back in the day, because it was well-known that actually making a charge stick was nearly impossible - they were too well-connected, the scales were balanced against complainants, who would see their own reputations dragged in the mud without touching the perps.

Problem is that the court of public opinion can easily lurch the other way - with so many totally justified examples, it is easy to see how destroying someone's reputation by adding one more to the list (because you don't like them, or to gain fame, or for blackmail) becomes a possibility. 

Thing is, it is going to be really hard to disprove such an accusation, particularly if it allegedly happened decades ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on November 16, 2017, 01:14:57 PM
The Trump administration are all Bond villains: https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/930918835246551041
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 16, 2017, 01:57:05 PM
Steve Mnuchin's wife might be the actual brain behind this entire Operation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 07, 2017, 07:08:06 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQYzORfXcAEZDVG.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2017, 04:59:06 PM
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-12/10/11/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-01/sub-buzz-7484-1512923896-1.png?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 16, 2017, 07:36:37 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQpRnj4WsAE727V.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 19, 2017, 12:05:50 AM
Don't know if all can see this

https://m.facebook.com/jonathanschmockart/photos/a.901458669991033.1073741828.901448766658690/1119769768159921/?type=3&source=48

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 19, 2017, 08:38:08 AM
(https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/jonathanschmock-wp-media-library-files/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Ghost-of-Xmas-1.jpg)

11B's post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 21, 2017, 08:33:19 PM
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0895/0476/products/2017-01-25_1343_grande.png?v=1485373700)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on December 21, 2017, 09:47:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EmXXVhY.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 21, 2017, 09:51:23 PM
Uncle Tim.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 22, 2017, 08:24:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 21, 2017, 09:51:23 PM
Uncle Tim.

Found your Christmas present, Seedy: https://www.amazon.com/So-Sick-White-Guys-Experience/dp/1979233152
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2017, 08:39:52 AM
My increased insurance premiums were more than enough from you this holiday season, thanks.  Now find something really sharp and shove it up your ass, so you can bleed to death internally and not know it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 22, 2017, 09:03:24 AM
'Tis the season!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2017, 03:59:06 PM
Blow it out your ass, Howard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 22, 2017, 04:01:40 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 21, 2017, 08:33:19 PM
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0895/0476/products/2017-01-25_1343_grande.png?v=1485373700)

That's pretty good  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 22, 2017, 04:17:20 PM
Edgar Allan Poe as a French pirate?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 22, 2017, 04:19:58 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Riel
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 22, 2017, 04:23:54 PM
Man had a fabulous head of hair.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 31, 2017, 09:21:41 PM
https://m.facebook.com/jonathanschmockart/photos/a.901458669991033.1073741828.901448766658690/1127347050735526/?type=3&source=48
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 31, 2017, 10:14:12 PM
What are we suppose to be seeing here?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on December 31, 2017, 10:22:07 PM
It's a commentary on how Trump's real political homies are Klansmen and plutocrats. Would be better if Trump weren't drinking in the picture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 31, 2017, 10:46:06 PM
Trump doesn't need to be drinking with the Monopoly man; he IS the Monopoly Man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 01, 2018, 05:53:24 AM
Quote from: Camerus on December 31, 2017, 10:22:07 PM
It's a commentary on how Trump's real political homies are Klansmen and plutocrats. Would be better if Trump weren't drinking in the picture.


Okay.  I actually meant that literally, cause it wasn't coming up for me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 01, 2018, 01:21:17 PM
I can't cut and paste an image w I th the kindle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 03, 2018, 09:40:52 AM
QuoteLouis Staples
@LouisStaples
Being gay is exhausting!! You have to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every quote, scene + facial expression from every single female celebrity, pop-culture icon + fictional character over the last 20 years AND know exactly what to type to find them in GIF form! I'm so TIRED.

11:39 AM - Jan 1, 2018
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 03, 2018, 10:28:54 AM
Nobody's making you dig up those gifs, g.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 03, 2018, 11:01:35 AM
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 03, 2018, 11:19:14 AM
Isn't this one enough?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/jBqtOWZT1Ca6A/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 03, 2018, 11:31:26 AM
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/web05/2012/10/2/20/anigif_enhanced-buzz-13484-1349223767-4.gif)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2018, 06:18:56 PM
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/7430b8a0f0f2139a5141cf927922cc4a/tumblr_p25q20uuR71tx6mngo1_1280.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on January 06, 2018, 06:58:38 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 08, 2018, 05:17:53 PM
Thank you, Buzzfeed, for reminding me about the joys of Scottish twitter:

Quotekendra
@auntiekenny_
issue wi males that think it's acceptable to comment on how a girl looks when she's mwi am no oot tae be stunnin am oot tae cut mad shapes
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 09, 2018, 05:10:47 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 08, 2018, 05:17:53 PM
Thank you, Buzzfeed, for reminding me about the joys of Scottish twitter:

Quotekendra
@auntiekenny_
issue wi males that think it's acceptable to comment on how a girl looks when she's mwi am no oot tae be stunnin am oot tae cut mad shapes

wot m8?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 09, 2018, 05:57:47 AM
It's a problem that men think it is acceptable to comment on how a girl looks when she's out getting mad drunk. I'm not out to be looking good for men, I'm out having a good time, dancing up a storm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 09, 2018, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 09, 2018, 05:57:47 AM
It's a problem that men think it is acceptable to comment on how a girl looks when she's out getting mad drunk. I'm not out to be looking good for men, I'm out having a good time, dancing up a storm.

I am impressed
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 09, 2018, 09:17:57 AM
Scottish social media seems to be all about how something might be written if you were drunk and attempting to write phonetically. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 10, 2018, 12:27:38 AM
I got most of it but which part is the mad drunk? mwi? Acronym for something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 10, 2018, 01:49:33 AM
Mad wasted?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on January 10, 2018, 05:30:33 AM
Urban Dictionary: mwi

mad wae it, to be totally steamin (pissed) or buzzin on sumthin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 10, 2018, 06:00:37 AM
Quote from: Maladict on January 10, 2018, 05:30:33 AM
Urban Dictionary: mwi

mad wae it, to be totally steamin (pissed) or buzzin on sumthin.

https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/scottish-phrase-of-the-day-mad-wae-it-1-3641206

QuoteThis weekend just past, waiters and bar staff dealt with hundreds of thousands of revellers in restaurants, pubs and clubs across the country. Most people will have been perfectly well-behaved - but some will have been pretty drunk, or, as some would say, "mad wae it".

Scots who have already overindulged at the pub this festive season will often describe themselves as being mad wae it, but one could also say they are looking forward to, or anticipating, "getting mad wae it".

Tracing the phrase's origin is probably beyond this article, given its distinctly colloquial character. Though few examples of the term exist in literature, it's awell established and widely used phrase, especially among young people in the west coast - but it's certainly not restricted to that region.

Mad wae it has even made its way onto a Scotsman headline: this one snuck into a story about a then-16-year-old who had made a film about his wayward teenage years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 18, 2018, 02:57:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/NDcEQ0d.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 18, 2018, 04:11:22 PM
So vulgar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 18, 2018, 04:19:30 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 18, 2018, 04:11:22 PM
So vulgar.

The polyester suits?  Yeah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 31, 2018, 02:58:24 AM
(https://scontent.flhr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33965314_10156065172904220_5483844407088119808_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=06043c1fd66eaadb6e56e94e1679da8d&oe=5BB53298)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 31, 2018, 07:27:50 AM
Would've worked better if "racist thoughts" were inserted into a list of possible side effects.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 31, 2018, 07:32:06 AM
I thought to myself when the story came out that it would be cool if the maker of Ambien released a public statement clarifying that racism is not a side effect of their medication, but they probably wouldn't do it, because it wouldn't be safe PR.  Turns out they did do just that.  I'll get a prescription for Ambien just to support them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 31, 2018, 07:35:40 AM
That was pretty cool.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/30/health/ambien-roseanne-barr-racist-tweets-bn/index.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 31, 2018, 07:50:44 AM
My brother has said some bizarre stuff while on Ambien.  Nothing racist, but just about as weird.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 31, 2018, 08:11:24 AM
Yeah, I'm not an Ambien person. I prefer Lunesta which has smaller duration of effect (~4 hours as opposed to Ambien's ~8), so less chance of oddness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2018, 09:58:44 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2018, 07:50:44 AM
My brother has said some bizarre stuff while on Ambien.  Nothing racist, but just about as weird.

I heard people saying bizarre stuff while in Amiens too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 31, 2018, 10:00:43 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2018, 09:58:44 AM
I heard people saying bizarre stuff while in Amiens too.

A lot of that depends on who holds the city, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2018, 03:46:59 PM
 :hmm: Macron I guess, though he is only really popular in the bourgeois parts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on May 31, 2018, 04:31:01 PM
How is calling someone an ape racist?  We're all apes, after all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
Because racists consider blacks not as far removed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on May 31, 2018, 05:30:47 PM
Quote from: dps on May 31, 2018, 04:31:01 PM
How is calling someone an ape racist?  We're all apes, after all.

No, Hominids are primates, Apes are primates.  All Hominids are primates, not all primates are Hominids.

While some systems list Apes as Hominids, even with this it is still not right that humans are apes.  Humans are Hominids, Apes are Hominids but Humans are not apes (nor are they other hominids)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 31, 2018, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: PDH on May 31, 2018, 05:30:47 PM
Quote from: dps on May 31, 2018, 04:31:01 PM
How is calling someone an ape racist?  We're all apes, after all.

No, Hominids are primates, Apes are primates.  All Hominids are primates, not all primates are Hominids.

While some systems list Apes as Hominids, even with this it is still not right that humans are apes.  Humans are Hominids, Apes are Hominids but Humans are not apes (nor are they other hominids)

:yeahright: What systems don't put apes as in the Homindae family?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 31, 2018, 05:45:39 PM
Quote from: dps on May 31, 2018, 04:31:01 PM
How is calling someone an ape racist?  We're all apes, after all.

:yeahright:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 31, 2018, 05:48:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 31, 2018, 05:45:39 PM
Quote from: dps on May 31, 2018, 04:31:01 PM
How is calling someone an ape racist?  We're all apes, after all.

:yeahright:

I figure it has got to be a bad troll by dps
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on May 31, 2018, 05:59:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 31, 2018, 05:34:58 PM

:yeahright: What systems don't put apes as in the Homindae family?

There are still some conservative taxonomies out there that have apes and hominids coming from a common ancestor but splitting into distinct groups.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 31, 2018, 07:55:28 PM
Quote from: dps on May 31, 2018, 04:31:01 PM
How is calling someone an ape racist?  We're all apes, after all.
Speak for yourself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 02, 2018, 05:33:44 PM
(https://scontent.flhr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34017330_10216200361906880_5707595281038573568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cbb2ffd6ebfbf332b313a00b96a53e61&oe=5B890BB4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 04, 2018, 12:23:07 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 04, 2018, 01:40:32 PM
Not sure where to put this, but it might as well go here (friend nor family afaik).

Guy taking a selfie with the victim of a train accident.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/1166C/production/_101867217_rt_saracenog_20180604171429.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 04, 2018, 01:42:42 PM
Recently a teenager drowned in Sweden and the police and rescue people were hindered in their work by onlookers standing in the way filming/taking pictures. They were not happy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 04, 2018, 01:53:12 PM
I guess it wasn't really a rush if he was already dead?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 04, 2018, 02:30:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 04, 2018, 01:53:12 PM
I guess it wasn't really a rush if he was already dead?

I don't think he was necessarily dead when they were trying to save him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 04, 2018, 05:59:48 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 04, 2018, 01:42:42 PM
Recently a teenager drowned in Sweden and the police and rescue people were hindered in their work by onlookers standing in the way filming/taking pictures. They were not happy.
Perhaps they wouldn't be hindered so much if they didn't keep blocking the shots.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 25, 2018, 12:39:18 AM
Yo, Raz, this showed up on my sister's Facebook page. Can you confirm?

QuoteMissouri has no illegals; go figure... shouldn't the other states do the same? Missouri's approach to the problem of illegal immigration appears to be more advanced, sophisticated, strict and effective than anything to date in Arizona . Does the White House appreciate what Missouri has done? So, why doesn't Missouri receive attention? Answer: There are no illegals in Missouri to demonstrate. (And the Media doesn't want to publicize that fact!)

The "Show Me" state has again shown us how it should be done. There needs to be more publicity and exposure regarding what Missouri has done. Please pass this around.

In 2007, Missouri placed on the ballot a proposed constitutional amendment designating English as the official language of Missouri In November, 2008, nearly 90% voted in favor! Thus, English became the official language for ALL governmental activity in Missouri . No individual has the right to demand government services in a language OTHER than English.

In 2008, a measure was passed that required the Missouri Highway Patrol and other law enforcement officials to verify the immigration status of any person arrested, and inform federal authorities if the person is found to be in Missouri illegally. Missouri law enforcement officers receive specific training with respect to enforcement of federal immigration laws.

In Missouri, illegal immigrants do NOT have access to taxpayer benefits such as food stamps or health care through Missouri Health NET.

In 2009, a measure was passed that ensures Missouri 's public institutions of higher education do NOT award financial aid to individuals who are illegally in the United States .

In Missouri all post-secondary institutions of higher education are required to annually certify to the Missouri Dept. of Higher Education that they have NOT knowingly awarded financial aid to students who are unlawfully present in the United States .

It is important to remember, Missouri has been far more proactive in addressing this horrific problem. Missouri has made it clear that illegal immigrants are NOT WELCOME in the state and they will NOT receive public benefits at the expense of Missouri taxpayers.

DON'T DELETE THIS, AMERICA . KEEP IT GOING UNTIL WE GET ALL 50 STATES TO COMPLY!

Taken from: "The Ozarks Sentinel" Editorial -

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 25, 2018, 01:05:02 AM
No, we have illegal immigrants in Missouri.  Not many, but not many legal citizens willing come to Missouri.  The description of the laws are fairly accurate though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 25, 2018, 04:13:14 AM
Once again it comes down to the need of a modern state to have identity cards.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 25, 2018, 04:48:27 AM
With 90% support in Missouri, you'd think the English as official language movement would have gotten more traction nationally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 25, 2018, 10:28:04 AM
Quotenearly 90% voted in favor! Thus, English became the official language

If they think a law is required to ensure people speak English - they should probably adopt English spelling. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 25, 2018, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 25, 2018, 04:48:27 AM
With 90% support in Missouri, you'd think the English as official language movement would have gotten more traction nationally.


That part isn't quite true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 27, 2018, 01:08:01 AM
POWERFULL

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26992360_560718207613409_3679360782247527815_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeF8iZEEUusVD43hzB0QDIEXGqol4AgXdRbg286URjYHvjkq0X6_ybT30xQ0kJS48Q5mcQJZ8oN8L4fG4nM2ToyXof15yp2wh1dAumFY_4jMlQ&oh=6a1d4b291e4658399358f9870da5642c&oe=5BEA6C9A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 27, 2018, 02:31:04 AM
I've missed this  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 27, 2018, 11:56:04 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35898107_2254737661203124_542782784159088640_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=81e9b137d403155cdef2c3ca8c74799b&oe=5BABCED4)

QuoteSo A Bill, To ALLOW FAMILIES TO REMAIN TOGETHER, which is what the Democrats have hounded Trump over the last few weeks, with Fake Media Stories, was just struck down BY ALL THE DEMOCRATS...... all 190 of them... let that simmer a moment

My sister reposted this post by ... *looks up poster* ... a dude. Something tells me there were maybe other things in the bill that made the Dems reject this, like, oh, 25 billion for a wall, or curbs on legal immigration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2018, 09:03:48 AM
Actually the bill would have passed easily if the Republicans had all voted for it :hmm:

Ah well.

Ok I looked up that bill. It is pretty huge in its scope.

Among other things it orders DHS to take over the southern border and monitor the social media activities of all visa applicants. That seems to me to further justify my decision to not use social media so I cannot be monitored. But it may be too late for me. I don't know how normal this sort of monitoring is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on June 28, 2018, 09:29:20 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2018, 09:03:48 AM

Among other things it orders DHS to take over the southern border and monitor the social media activities of all visa applicants.

There are probably a zillion people that get US VISAs. This seems like a massive use of resources.

QuoteThat seems to me to further justify my decision to not use social media so I cannot be monitored. But it may be too late for me. I don't know how normal this sort of monitoring is.

Do you really have anything to worry about? I know this is not the social libertarian angle to take, but my attitude is that if people want to go through my stuff/life, I'm pretty boring--they won't find anything anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2018, 09:59:41 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 28, 2018, 09:29:20 AM

Do you really have anything to worry about? I know this is not the social libertarian angle to take, but my attitude is that if people want to go through my stuff/life, I'm pretty boring--they won't find anything anyway.


I can get pretty fiery sometimes and say stupid shit I shouldn't say and, for example, the whole GamerGate thing blew up on twitter a couple years ago and for awhile, not really knowing what was going on, I was talking to people about that on there. I don't know what sort of shit might upset my political masters here in the state government or whatever entity I may need something from in the future. If I am being monitored best not to have anything out there for somebody to find. Especially since this is just for shits and giggles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 28, 2018, 10:10:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 28, 2018, 09:59:41 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 28, 2018, 09:29:20 AM

Do you really have anything to worry about? I know this is not the social libertarian angle to take, but my attitude is that if people want to go through my stuff/life, I'm pretty boring--they won't find anything anyway.


I can get pretty fiery sometimes and say stupid shit I shouldn't say and, for example, the whole GamerGate thing blew up on twitter a couple years ago and for awhile, not really knowing what was going on, I was talking to people about that on there. I don't know what sort of shit might upset my political masters here in the state government or whatever entity I may need something from in the future. If I am being monitored best not to have anything out there for somebody to find. Especially since this is just for shits and giggles.

Yep, it is something a lot of employers now do as part of their due diligence
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2018, 10:52:03 AM
I noticed Louis Gohmert voted against the bill. Interesting. Did it not go far enough for him?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 01, 2018, 02:52:59 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36344910_1752213111541515_6725100972223234048_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=6339f769c28c4d3e3ddafa0e2571ab3a&oe=5BAAA085)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/24852294_541052409590422_2369974711893125234_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=ea6db51a44f6c1b8dc7cd77e6629203b&oe=5BA55B40)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 01, 2018, 03:03:57 AM
Right-winning does make one good point: there's something about Trump's piety that just gets under my skin.

40% of our country is clinically insane.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 01, 2018, 03:26:18 AM
He's an orange opportunist secularist, 0 for 3.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 02, 2018, 09:41:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36596094_2157032217906536_6282420020169408512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7698ceb32ac9d4cb9dec2c9b8b03895f&oe=5BA8BA83)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 02, 2018, 09:47:55 AM
One of the things that never cease to amaze me is that despite falling for fake news at a rate of 10:1 to liberals, conservatives never lose confidence enough to stop "educating" the liberals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 02, 2018, 09:49:34 AM
Also, aren't liberals the ones more likely to care about those kids with parents in prison? :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 09:50:39 AM
I don't get it. Liberals complain about mass incarceration all the time. And what the media for that matter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2018, 09:49:34 AM
Also, aren't liberals the ones more likely to care about those kids with parents in prison? :D

I know. I am so confused.

But maybe Syt's sister can explain.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on July 02, 2018, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 09:50:39 AM
I don't get it. Liberals complain about mass incarceration all the time. And what the media for that matter.

But the complaint is that there are too many people being sent to prison who shouldn't be there, not that the ones who should be there are separated from their children.  But of course, I don't think very many people are going to be upset if murderers and professional thieves are separated from their kids.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 02, 2018, 09:58:45 AM
Also, what are we supposed to do about the military kids? Tell their parents they can't join the military if they have children?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 02, 2018, 10:04:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2018, 09:58:45 AM
Also, what are we supposed to do about the military kids? Tell their parents they can't join the military if they have children?

Logic is a liberal trick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
I love Maxine Waters :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 02, 2018, 10:32:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
I love Maxine Waters :lol:

Any particular reason you're bringing this up?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 10:42:50 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 02, 2018, 10:32:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
I love Maxine Waters :lol:

Any particular reason you're bringing this up?  :huh:

Syt's post on the previous page.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 02, 2018, 11:05:59 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
I love Maxine Waters :lol:


Trump has been pretty good using her as the example of "evil black person".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 02, 2018, 11:07:44 AM
Trump loves the blacks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 02, 2018, 11:10:47 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 02, 2018, 11:07:44 AM
Trump loves the blacks.

I bet some of his best friends are blacks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on July 02, 2018, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 02, 2018, 11:07:44 AM
Trump loves the blacks.

I dunno, he's never posted a picture of himself eating fried chicken and watermelon from one of his restaurants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 02, 2018, 11:13:30 AM
Many things can be said about Trump, conservative is not one of them.   

On the contrary, the longer his presidency, the more conservative I feel myself becoming.  Ortega y Gasset is sounding more sensible by the hour.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 02, 2018, 11:23:55 AM
I kind of doubt that most US conservatives are actually conservative.  People like to hide behind pretext ideology and pretext theology to justify their raw intolerance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 11:24:27 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 02, 2018, 11:05:59 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
I love Maxine Waters :lol:


Trump has been pretty good using her as the example of "evil black person".

:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 11:26:37 AM
I was rather shocked to discover during the Dubya presidency that for many conservatives in the US, conservatism is actually quite radical. Which I find rather disappointing since I do have many conservative instincts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 11:27:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 11:24:27 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 02, 2018, 11:05:59 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
I love Maxine Waters :lol:


Trump has been pretty good using her as the example of "evil black person".

:huh:

I will say that having heard Maxine speak she is pretty tiresome. But I guess that is the opposite of what you were saying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 02, 2018, 11:33:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 11:26:37 AM
I do have many conservative instincts.

Valmy, you named yourself Valmy for gods sake! You are a revolutionary!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 11:52:10 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 02, 2018, 11:33:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 11:26:37 AM
I do have many conservative instincts.

Valmy, you named yourself Valmy for gods sake! You are a revolutionary!

I am a man of contradictions. I do have revolutionary instincts but the problem is the radical side of the conservatives is too backwards looking for my taste.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 02, 2018, 12:17:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 11:24:27 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 02, 2018, 11:05:59 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
I love Maxine Waters :lol:


Trump has been pretty good using her as the example of "evil black person".

:huh:


He loves to bring her up.  She's black and therefor a "low IQ person".  A perfect foil to the towering intellect of Donald Trump, bringer of all that is good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 02, 2018, 12:22:39 PM
I do like to reclaim my time. -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 01:50:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 02, 2018, 12:17:50 PM
He loves to bring her up.

This much is true.  And why wouldn't he?

QuoteShe's black and therefor a "low IQ person".  A perfect foil to the towering intellect of Donald Trump, bringer of all that is good.

Okay now this is all in your head.  Trump is bad enough for who he is.  No need to make stuff up to make him that much worse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 02:04:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 01:50:43 PM
This much is true.  And why wouldn't he?

I don't know. I guess I figured a President had more important things to do than do LOLZ on the internet. Fuck I have more important things to do than that. So that is why he wouldn't...or shouldn't I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 02:14:42 PM
Yeah, well Trump is a little different in case you hadn't noticed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 02, 2018, 03:42:20 PM
My brother in law:

QuoteLiberals say Don't Separate The Families! At the same time they have no problem ripping a baby from the mother's womb and tossing it into the trash.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2018, 03:47:37 PM
Which retard states are your brothers in law from Syt?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 03:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 02, 2018, 03:42:20 PM
My brother in law:

QuoteLiberals say Don't Separate The Families! At the same time they have no problem ripping a baby from the mother's womb and tossing it into the trash.

Does your family ever actually defend their ideas or just come up with bizarre ways to scream 'hypocrisy!' at everything?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 03:53:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 02:14:42 PM
Yeah, well Trump is a little different in case you hadn't noticed.

Yeah...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 02, 2018, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2018, 03:47:37 PM
Which retard states are your brothers in law from Syt?

Pittsburgh, PA and San Bernardino, CA, respectively.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 02, 2018, 04:16:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2018, 03:53:20 PM
Does your family ever actually defend their ideas or just come up with bizarre ways to scream 'hypocrisy!' at everything?
If Syt's family is anything like my extended family, the answer is no.  I'm not trying to deliberately be dismissive, but I just don't think that facts and arguments are what these people work with:  they don't arrive at their ideas that way, they don't defend ideas that way, and they are totally impervious to other ideas being introduced in this way. 

It's all based on "common sense" and fear, not to mention just living in a different world factually to the extent that they do wander into fact-based reality for a moment.  People that disagree with them are generaly utter morons.  In my case, it's generally acknowledged that I am indeed very smart, so I'm too ivory tower and elitist for my own good to know how it really is.  It's a pretty impenetrable mindset.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 02, 2018, 05:10:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 02, 2018, 01:50:43 PM

Okay now this is all in your head.  Trump is bad enough for who he is.  No need to make stuff up to make him that much worse.

Yeah, and it just happens that most of the fights he picks are with non-whites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 05, 2018, 05:37:51 AM
Ah, a classic.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29541466_2069919159890776_7544934596831911745_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7527380bb093c59934c713aa64b00bee&oe=5BA02E72)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 08:39:06 AM
Yeah they have posted the exact same crap before.

But...how is it the government's fault those guys did not sufficiently fund their 401K?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 05, 2018, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 08:39:06 AM
Yeah they have posted the exact same crap before.

But...how is it the government's fault those guys did not sufficiently fund their 401K?  :hmm:

It's a slight against income tax.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 05, 2018, 10:14:36 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 05, 2018, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 08:39:06 AM
Yeah they have posted the exact same crap before.

But...how is it the government's fault those guys did not sufficiently fund their 401K?  :hmm:

It's a slight against income tax.

Immigrants cause income tax :huh:

Didn't the US just reduce taxes  :hmm:

@Valmy, those miners are probably working into their 70s because their wages are shit and the cost of health care his high - but it is easier to blame the individual then focus on government policy choices.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 05, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 05, 2018, 10:14:36 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 05, 2018, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 08:39:06 AM
Yeah they have posted the exact same crap before.

But...how is it the government's fault those guys did not sufficiently fund their 401K?  :hmm:

It's a slight against income tax.

Immigrants cause income tax :huh:

Didn't the US just reduce taxes  :hmm:

@Valmy, those miners are probably working into their 70s because their wages are shit and the cost of health care his high - but it is easier to blame the individual then focus on government policy choices.

It really doesn't cease to amaze me... there's barely any welfare in the US. And they are proud of it. Except that it's horrible and there would be more welfare, it there wasn't any brown pipple.


I mean, if you are a Swede and you are worried about hundreds of thousands of foreigners descending on your state benefits sytem in a matter of a couple of years, I can understand that. No reason to go racist and nazi but concerns are justified. But in the bloody US? What system is there to break or abuse?!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:31:10 AM
I hear them complain a lot about having to fund the education of the illegal immigrant kids.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:33:49 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 05, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
It really doesn't cease to amaze me... there's barely any welfare in the US. And they are proud of it. Except that it's horrible and there would be more welfare, it there wasn't any brown pipple.


I mean, if you are a Swede and you are worried about hundreds of thousands of foreigners descending on your state benefits sytem in a matter of a couple of years, I can understand that. No reason to go racist and nazi but concerns are justified. But in the bloody US? What system is there to break or abuse?!

Actually looking at the pic those are Australian workers so I guess this was an attack on the Australian government. I don't know what their immigration situation is but I thought that given their island location that both they and New Zealand were pretty ruthless in keeping people out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 05, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
It really doesn't cease to amaze me... there's barely any welfare in the US.

There's still a fair bit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 05, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
It really doesn't cease to amaze me... there's barely any welfare in the US.

There's still a fair bit.

Yeah but not much is available to illegal immigrants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:39:12 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 05, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
It really doesn't cease to amaze me... there's barely any welfare in the US.

There's still a fair bit.

Yeah but not much is available to illegal immigrants.

Through the wonders of identity theft, the whole portfolio is open to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:40:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:39:12 AM
Through the wonders of identity theft, the whole portfolio is open to them.

Yeah but the same could be said about every single non-American citizen in the entire world. You don't have to immigrate anywhere to steal shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2018, 10:42:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:33:49 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 05, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
It really doesn't cease to amaze me... there's barely any welfare in the US. And they are proud of it. Except that it's horrible and there would be more welfare, it there wasn't any brown pipple.


I mean, if you are a Swede and you are worried about hundreds of thousands of foreigners descending on your state benefits sytem in a matter of a couple of years, I can understand that. No reason to go racist and nazi but concerns are justified. But in the bloody US? What system is there to break or abuse?!

Actually looking at the pic those are Australian workers so I guess this was an attack on the Australian government. I don't know what their immigration situation is but I thought that given their island location that both they and New Zealand were pretty ruthless in keeping people out.

Dammit, not only are foreigners stealing American jobs ... now they are stealing dumb Internet memes!  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:51:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:40:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:39:12 AM
Through the wonders of identity theft, the whole portfolio is open to them.

Yeah but the same could be said about every single non-American citizen in the entire world. You don't have to immigrate anywhere to steal shit.

Okay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 05, 2018, 10:55:17 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:39:12 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 05, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
It really doesn't cease to amaze me... there's barely any welfare in the US.

There's still a fair bit.

Yeah but not much is available to illegal immigrants.

Through the wonders of identity theft, the whole portfolio is open to them.

:lol: I am sure the number of illegal immigrants successfully stealing the identities of American citizens and raking in all the sweet dole is a major drain on the budget.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:51:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 10:40:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 10:39:12 AM
Through the wonders of identity theft, the whole portfolio is open to them.

Yeah but the same could be said about every single non-American citizen in the entire world. You don't have to immigrate anywhere to steal shit.

Okay.

Um you were the one who said that people can use ID theft to steal shit. I mean yes they can. And they do. All over the world. All the time.

So if you are confused by your own point, maybe you should not have made it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 11:08:38 AM
No, I said illegal aliens can get benefits via identity theft.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 05, 2018, 11:17:53 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 11:08:38 AM
No, I said illegal aliens can get benefits via identity theft.

What should the solutions to that problem be?

Keep in mind that people can get benefits via identify theft without also being illegal aliens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 11:19:44 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 11:08:38 AM
No, I said illegal aliens can get benefits via identity theft.

And I said so can anybody.

Is ID theft by these people a serious problem? I mean I guess I assume most of them are pretty uneducated desperate people who probably lack the tools available to organized crime. But I guess some of those people who stay past their VISA could be doing it. And they probably would have to steal an elderly person's ID to really get that much out of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 11:39:52 AM
I'm not sure what you're trying to read into what I said.  I was just pointing out that there was a way for illegals to get the full range of benefits.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 11:45:25 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 11:39:52 AM
I'm not sure what you're trying to read into what I said.  I was just pointing out that there was a way for illegals to get the full range of benefits.

And why were you pointing that out? Without any context what choice do I have but to try to read something into it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 05, 2018, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 11:39:52 AM
I'm not sure what you're trying to read into what I said.  I was just pointing out that there was a way for illegals to get the full range of benefits.

... but not legally, which was the point you were responding to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 11:52:39 AM
I give up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 05, 2018, 11:56:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36316937_615704192145345_3162422520699682816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b6206db2cec0b96616c343ad7744e9f7&oe=5BE323A6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 11:57:17 AM
I think the main way illegals "steal" identities is sharing social security numbers so they can get work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 05, 2018, 12:00:31 PM
I missed you Syt, and I thought I also missed these snippets from the depth of salt-of-the-earth America, but now I am not so sure about the latter.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 12:06:12 PM
It's factually incorrect too. Should be Army vs Indians and Cowboys vs Small Ranchers. :alberta:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 05, 2018, 12:40:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 05, 2018, 11:56:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36316937_615704192145345_3162422520699682816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b6206db2cec0b96616c343ad7744e9f7&oe=5BE323A6)

A casual observer might think you are posting these rather than you reposting what your relatives are posting on facebook in order to mock them
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 05, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
Well, I could post all these with a  :rolleyes: or  :face: depending on contents.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 11:57:17 AM
I think the main way illegals "steal" identities is sharing social security numbers so they can get work.

"Sharing" is a curious choice of words, but otherwise I think you're correct.  Though in many (most?) cases they get the stolen identity, then "legally" obtain work, then use that ID to claim benefits.  And why wouldn't they at that point?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 01:15:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 05, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
Well, I could post all these with a  :rolleyes: or  :face: depending on contents.

Don't do it on CC's account.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 05, 2018, 01:16:03 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 01:15:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 05, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
Well, I could post all these with a  :rolleyes: or  :face: depending on contents.

Don't do it on CC's account.

Yeah, it'd be weird to log in with someone else's credentials. If you do it, please continue using the Syt account.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 01:28:57 PM
 :P

But I think the thread title provides enough clarity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 03:22:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 11:57:17 AM
I think the main way illegals "steal" identities is sharing social security numbers so they can get work.

Is this a common practice and to what extent are benefits stolen? Do you have statistics or studies I could look at?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2018, 03:37:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 05, 2018, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 11:57:17 AM
I think the main way illegals "steal" identities is sharing social security numbers so they can get work.

"Sharing" is a curious choice of words, but otherwise I think you're correct.  Though in many (most?) cases they get the stolen identity, then "legally" obtain work, then use that ID to claim benefits.  And why wouldn't they at that point?
Why does it have to be stolen?
Seems reasonable to believe sharing could occur sometimes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on July 05, 2018, 03:58:49 PM
Seems like there is indeed some ID theft going on.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28/624207450/former-ice-chief-counsel-facing-prison-time-for-stealing-immigrants-identities?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social (https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28/624207450/former-ice-chief-counsel-facing-prison-time-for-stealing-immigrants-identities?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 04:29:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 03:22:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 11:57:17 AM
I think the main way illegals "steal" identities is sharing social security numbers so they can get work.

Is this a common practice and to what extent are benefits stolen? Do you have statistics or studies I could look at?

It's just speculation/hearsay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on July 05, 2018, 06:41:31 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 05, 2018, 01:16:03 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 01:15:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 05, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
Well, I could post all these with a  :rolleyes: or  :face: depending on contents.

Don't do it on CC's account.

Yeah, it'd be weird to log in with someone else's credentials. If you do it, please continue using the Syt account.

If you're going to do it on CC's account, at least steal some welfare too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 06:57:03 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 04:29:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 05, 2018, 03:22:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 05, 2018, 11:57:17 AM
I think the main way illegals "steal" identities is sharing social security numbers so they can get work.

Is this a common practice and to what extent are benefits stolen? Do you have statistics or studies I could look at?

It's just speculation/hearsay.

Got it. Seems plausible I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 06, 2018, 02:23:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19510415_10208157591372114_3434721936289095920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9ded3c74ffdbcc1c1b9f3d28b095bc75&oe=5BD711AE)

Remind me again of where the 9/11 attackers came from vs. which countries have been hit with the travel banhammer? :secret:

(This comment brought to you by the Clarity for Crazy Canuck Informational Transparency Fund. ;) :P )
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 06, 2018, 02:32:08 AM
 :lol: Pathetic
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 06, 2018, 07:36:11 AM
Hoo boy.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36639098_2172334526350673_7780824184350834688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e342fba48ee267bcb58fc44932a3e13e&oe=5BE63DFF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 06, 2018, 08:29:39 AM
See? Now that is impressive propaganda. I don't know even know WTF most of that is even talking about and I can barely even start on the stuff I at least know a little about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2018, 08:33:51 AM
Who is occupying our government?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 06, 2018, 08:38:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2018, 08:33:51 AM
Who is occupying our government?

Yeah I did not get that either. The Republicans control, and have controlled for most of our history since 1994, most state governments and Congress. But most of that makes no sense. Or requires loads of explanation for how it is true in whatever weird bizarre way it is. Like how the price of food quadrupled since 2009. Or how the President increased welfare without any laws being passed. Is that about Obamacare? Who knows?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 07, 2018, 04:10:33 PM
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/3d281353a99b0a79759aab619f3767a1/tumblr_pbidotqy7Y1tyv2j7o1_540.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on July 07, 2018, 06:40:43 PM
Christoph Waltz! I knew he looked like somebody. It's Christoph Waltz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 07, 2018, 09:31:00 PM
Really, I thought he kinda looked like Jeremy Irons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 07, 2018, 11:46:39 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390268661568503811/465293795949412362/36690249_2345952452298819_3211391607504896000_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2018, 11:49:43 PM
Is this one of those anarchist libertarian types condemning the 'statist' GOP or is this some Democrats claiming the GOP is owned by the KGB? Hard to tell these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 07, 2018, 11:53:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2018, 11:49:43 PM
Is this one of those anarchist libertarian types condemning the 'statist' GOP or is this some Democrats claiming the GOP is owned by the KGB? Hard to tell these days.

I don't know, but I guess you could visit their website maddogpac.com to find out. Here are some other billboards they're running:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fgi%2FDonald%2BTrump%2BAnti%2BTrump%2BImpeachment%2BNow%2BBillboard%2BaO5BZkHK1t9l.jpg&hash=03d2747ebf17400b58001e2df67deeb6966e3675)

(https://i2.wp.com/rightwisconsin.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/nra-terrorist-org.jpg?resize=300%2C225&ssl=1)

(https://specialreports.oaaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/matt-gaetz-billboard--300x192.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2018, 11:56:47 PM
Based on that website they are Democrats who seem to becoming radicalized and using the same tactics as the Populists on the Right. So that's a thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 08, 2018, 12:27:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2018, 11:56:47 PM
Based on that website they are Democrats who seem to becoming radicalized and using the same tactics as the Populists on the Right. So that's a thing.

Well, the rhetoric is fairly abrasive but I don't know if the substance of their policy positions is radical. Is banning assault weapons radical?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 08, 2018, 12:36:28 AM
 :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:

http://www.neonnettle.com/features/1398-fbi-agent-who-exposed-hillary-clinton-s-cover-up-found-dead

QuoteFBI Agent, Who Exposed Hillary Clinton's Cover-up, Found Dead

FBI Special Agent David Raynor murdered with his own gun

An FBI Special Agent, who was anticipated to expose the extent of Clinton and Obama malpractice and corruption in the "Operation Fast and Furious" cover-up before a US Federal Grand Jury, has been found dead at his home.

The FBI official's wife was also found dead at the scene with the couple both being murdered using the 52-year-old agent's own gun.Special Agent David Raynor was "stabbed multiple times" and "shot twice with his own weapon," according to local media reports.Raynor's tragic death comes just one day before he was due to testify before a US Federal Grand Jury. He was widely expected to testify that Hillary Clinton acted illegally to protect Obama administration crimes while covering up the Fast and Furious scandal.

Raynor's wife, Donna Fisher, was also found dead at the scene. An autopsy will be completed to determine the exact cause of death, according to police.According to the Baltimore Sun:Authorities, who are offering a $215,000 reward for tips in Suiter's killing, have struggled to understand what happened. The detective was shot with his own gun, which was found at the scene. Two other shots were fired from the gun, and Davis said there were signs of a brief struggle.

Special Agent Raynor's suspicious death is the latest in a sequence of disturbing deaths in Baltimore connected to the Clinton/Obama cover-up of Operation Fast and Furious.

When President Trump took power, the US Justice Department opened another investigation into Operation Fast and Furious as it pertained to the Baltimore Police Department and impaneled a US Federal Grand Jury.

Special Agent Raynor was leading US Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's and FBI Director Christopher Wray's investigation into the murder of Detective Sean Suiter, who he believed was silenced before he could testify that the Obama administration was criminally complicit in allowing guns to flow into the hands of criminals on the Mexican border.

These guns were involved in the murder of a US Federal Officer, among others, and is seen by investigators as the "Achilles heel of the Obama regime," because the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry is one of but a very few Obama administration crimes that have no statute of limitations as it involved the killing of a US Federal Officer.

Leaked Wikileaks emails also prove Hillary Clinton was fully knowledgeable about the crime—thus making her liable to criminal charges.

Last's week's bombshell Inspector General's reports have exposed yet more Hillary Clinton and Obama Administration crimes.

The report, that was released last Thursday, revealed that the FBI had discovered evidence that Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation had committed "sexual crimes against children."

READ MORE: IG Report: Hillary Clinton Has Committed 'Sexual Crimes Against Children'

The report also shows that Obama lied to cover-up parts of these investigations that exposed child trafficking.However, the IG report proves that the evidence of these crimes has been covered-up and swept under the carpet by those acting at the highest levels.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 08, 2018, 01:07:03 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 08, 2018, 12:27:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2018, 11:56:47 PM
Based on that website they are Democrats who seem to becoming radicalized and using the same tactics as the Populists on the Right. So that's a thing.

Well, the rhetoric is fairly abrasive but I don't know if the substance of their policy positions is radical. Is banning assault weapons radical?

Radicalized as far as their partisanship. That website does not say much about their policy positions, only that the GOP is full of traitors and scum and villainy etc...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 08, 2018, 01:08:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 08, 2018, 12:36:28 AM
:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:

WTH? I am not even sure what this article is even talking about. Operation what? Huh?

Notice that almost all of this crap is personal and directed at the politicians themselves, and has hardly anything to do with policy stuff. That is what I mean Jake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 08, 2018, 01:28:58 AM
Fast and Furious was a sting operation aimed at curtailing guns going from the US to Mexico.  One of the guns later turned up in the murder of a border patrol agent.  Conservatives were furious, believing that this is some sort of plot to take guns away from "responsible gun owners".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on July 08, 2018, 06:25:00 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 07, 2018, 04:10:33 PM
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/3d281353a99b0a79759aab619f3767a1/tumblr_pbidotqy7Y1tyv2j7o1_540.jpg)

:lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 09, 2018, 12:20:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36846180_656291021399893_8729472830997004288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9ff2ce8f6cabfb170952e497544e0508&oe=5BD7F4ED)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 09, 2018, 12:43:11 AM
At least these show they are uneasy about this idiot being in the White House. Shit like that is about convincing yourself, rather than others.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 09, 2018, 01:12:03 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 09, 2018, 12:43:11 AM
At least these show they are uneasy about this idiot being in the White House. Shit like that is about convincing yourself, rather than others.

i was thinking the same thing.

"Who cares if he's a lying dickhead who sucks KGB knob?  At least he's being rude to people!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 09, 2018, 01:27:23 AM
One sentiment I occasionally see online (though not from my family) is, "He's just as bad as all other politicians, but at least he's not pretending to better!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 13, 2018, 03:16:51 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13654163_825579047544223_2182730306871548548_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=44cecdc3a0219ea26047f99f83a8103d&oe=5BDB491E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 13, 2018, 10:26:25 AM
:lol:

Right - move along, no whining or blaming others going on here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 13, 2018, 11:05:02 AM
Syt, you should tell your sister that racial pride is an unseemly quality in Germans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 13, 2018, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 13, 2018, 11:05:02 AM
Syt, you should tell your sister that racial pride is an unseemly quality in Germans.

Should non-Germans take pride in their race?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 13, 2018, 12:21:55 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 13, 2018, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 13, 2018, 11:05:02 AM
Syt, you should tell your sister that racial pride is an unseemly quality in Germans.

Should non-Germans take pride in their race?

"Setting fire to your house is stupid."

That doesn't imply that setting fire to your car is not stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 13, 2018, 12:38:03 PM
Unless you can get away with collecting the insurance money.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 13, 2018, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 13, 2018, 12:38:03 PM
Unless you can get away with collecting the insurance money.

That may make the statement incorrect, but it is to implied by the preceding statement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 13, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 13, 2018, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 13, 2018, 11:05:02 AM
Syt, you should tell your sister that racial pride is an unseemly quality in Germans.

Should non-Germans take pride in their race?

"Race" is problematic to put it mildly, but I've always thought that everyone should take pride in their ethnic heritage. :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 13, 2018, 01:13:09 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2018, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 13, 2018, 12:38:03 PM
Unless you can get away with collecting the insurance money.

That may make the statement incorrect, but it is to implied by the preceding statement.

It was a comment on both. Like your car could be in the garage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 13, 2018, 04:28:32 PM
(https://img00.deviantart.net/775c/i/2018/194/e/e/the_imaginary_world_of_donald_trump_by_jollyjack-dch3my0.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 13, 2018, 07:12:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ICklY2p.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on July 14, 2018, 05:38:46 PM
Memorable pictures of the Queen and American Presidents

(https://i.sohn.dk/qt1.jpg)
(https://i.sohn.dk/qt2.jpg)
(https://i.sohn.dk/qt3.jpg)
(https://i.sohn.dk/qt4.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on July 15, 2018, 03:32:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 13, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
"Race" is problematic to put it mildly, but I've always thought that everyone should take pride in their ethnic heritage. :mellow:

Why be proud of a completely random result? Unless maybe my particular heritage was being repressed, I could see the appeal in that.
I take somewhat of an interest in my heritage but pride it definitely is not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 15, 2018, 05:46:25 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 15, 2018, 03:32:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 13, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
"Race" is problematic to put it mildly, but I've always thought that everyone should take pride in their ethnic heritage. :mellow:

Why be proud of a completely random result? Unless maybe my particular heritage was being repressed, I could see the appeal in that.
I take somewhat of an interest in my heritage but pride it definitely is not.

Because if you're not proud of your heritage, no one else is going to be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 15, 2018, 05:50:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 15, 2018, 05:46:25 PM
Quote from: Maladict on July 15, 2018, 03:32:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 13, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
"Race" is problematic to put it mildly, but I've always thought that everyone should take pride in their ethnic heritage. :mellow:

Why be proud of a completely random result? Unless maybe my particular heritage was being repressed, I could see the appeal in that.
I take somewhat of an interest in my heritage but pride it definitely is not.

Because if you're not proud of your heritage, no one else is going to be.

So no reason then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 15, 2018, 06:28:36 PM
I am not really proud of my heritage really...I mean all I did was be born. But I am sort of fond of those people and I enjoy having a personal DNA type connection to them. Pride would seem to suggest that somehow they make me special and I don't think that is true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 16, 2018, 02:27:13 AM
When you think, "Well, at least Mart's analogies weren't *that* bad ..."

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36720141_10212890042985576_7186459315413188608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=437934c8e2e245a4259540cd7761e4f0&oe=5BCFADB7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on July 16, 2018, 02:36:08 AM
"Pride" is being interpreted quite negatively here. It could also be a motivating factor for ensuring that one's country behaved well, that important traditions of tolerance and fairmindedness are preserved for example.

The problem may be that "pride" has been stolen by so-called patriots with no interest in the larger picture, just in their own bigoted particularism. This puts more thoughtful people off.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 16, 2018, 03:36:48 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 16, 2018, 02:36:08 AM
"Pride" is being interpreted quite negatively here. It could also be a motivating factor for ensuring that one's country behaved well, that important traditions of tolerance and fairmindedness are preserved for example.

The problem may be that "pride" has been stolen by so-called patriots with no interest in the larger picture, just in their own bigoted particularism. This puts more thoughtful people off.

Well it IS a deadly sin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 16, 2018, 08:17:14 AM
"Pride in one's heritage or attributes" appears to have a different meaning than "pride" does in other contexts. It usually means "a feeling of self-worth, support and interest". It's the opposite of "ashamed". 

As in the "Gay Pride Parade" in Toronto. It makes no sense to be "proud" of being gay (any more than it makes sense to be 'proud' of being straight), but everyone understands what it means - 'we are open about who we are and not ashamed of it'.

The problem is that, while this works for minorities who have traditionally been oppressed, it is more problematic for majorities who have not ... but no better term has been invented. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 16, 2018, 08:24:08 AM
Well, yes, in that sense it is pride in something that you were raised/told to be ashamed about (i.e. being black, being gay, being a woman).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 16, 2018, 08:35:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 16, 2018, 08:24:08 AM
Well, yes, in that sense it is pride in something that you were raised/told to be ashamed about (i.e. being black, being gay, being a woman).

Exactly. It's basically reactive.

That's why "Gay Pride" or "Black Pride" makes intuitive sense, but "Straight Pride" or "White Pride" is more problematic - in real life, most people would assume, in the latter cases, that what the person was "reacting against" was gays and blacks (or other minorities).

Black Pride = a minority reacting against a history of oppression; asserting their right to self-worth. The message: 'we have every right to equal treatment; we are not ashamed of who we are'.

White Pride = a majority asserting its dominance. 

... thinking further, it seems to me that this is the issue on which labels such as "White" or "Black" make sense as group identifiers. To have pride in one's heritage, for the majority, isn't or should not be a matter of the social constrict race, but of some other characteristic (national origin, etc.). "White pride" only makes sense in the context of White/non-White relations, but other characteristics ("Ukrainian Pride"?) can make sense outside of that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 16, 2018, 09:01:46 AM
Any sort of ethnic pride, even when that is an ethnicity that gets shit on regularly, always makes me a bit nervous. But nationalism of any sort makes me feel that way. I mean there is only a small step from 'black pride' which is healthy in a US context, to some sort of black nationalism or black separatism which is not. Or at least it seems that way to me. But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 16, 2018, 09:11:44 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 15, 2018, 06:28:36 PM
I am not really proud of my heritage really...I mean all I did was be born. But I am sort of fond of those people and I enjoy having a personal DNA type connection to them. Pride would seem to suggest that somehow they make me special and I don't think that is true.


I was born special.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on July 16, 2018, 10:25:06 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 16, 2018, 08:35:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 16, 2018, 08:24:08 AM
Well, yes, in that sense it is pride in something that you were raised/told to be ashamed about (i.e. being black, being gay, being a woman).

Exactly. It's basically reactive.

That's why "Gay Pride" or "Black Pride" makes intuitive sense, but "Straight Pride" or "White Pride" is more problematic - in real life, most people would assume, in the latter cases, that what the person was "reacting against" was gays and blacks (or other minorities).

Black Pride = a minority reacting against a history of oppression; asserting their right to self-worth. The message: 'we have every right to equal treatment; we are not ashamed of who we are'.

White Pride = a majority asserting its dominance. 

... thinking further, it seems to me that this is the issue on which labels such as "White" or "Black" make sense as group identifiers. To have pride in one's heritage, for the majority, isn't or should not be a matter of the social constrict race, but of some other characteristic (national origin, etc.). "White pride" only makes sense in the context of White/non-White relations, but other characteristics ("Ukrainian Pride"?) can make sense outside of that.

There's also the concept of "civic pride" which is viewed as a positive.  When I hear of someone taking pride in their heritage, I view it along the same lines of civic pride.  Pride in one's own heritage need not involve dislike of people of other heritages.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 16, 2018, 10:30:40 AM
It shouldn't...but yet...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 16, 2018, 11:08:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 16, 2018, 02:27:13 AM
When you think, "Well, at least Mart's analogies weren't *that* bad ..."

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36720141_10212890042985576_7186459315413188608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=437934c8e2e245a4259540cd7761e4f0&oe=5BCFADB7)

Wait, Trump is going to charge admission fees for anyone who wants a Green Card.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 16, 2018, 11:21:22 AM
That has been in place since forever. If you invest X amount of money in the country you get a visa.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 16, 2018, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 16, 2018, 11:21:22 AM
That has been in place since forever. If you invest X amount of money in the country you get a visa.

Hasn't been for just anyone who wants to enter  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 16, 2018, 02:10:54 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 16, 2018, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 16, 2018, 11:21:22 AM
That has been in place since forever. If you invest X amount of money in the country you get a visa.

Hasn't been for just anyone who wants to enter  ;)

Only Norwegians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 16, 2018, 11:36:22 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37243150_2032990913386606_1226858881276182528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=8d11551ee8422b1f0c0ce881099bb8f0&oe=5BE9D9B9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 17, 2018, 12:04:30 AM
I don't get what being pro-immigration has to do with Espionage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 17, 2018, 12:42:04 AM
Does that mean your sister thinks it's ok to have Russia meddle in US elections? I guess if that's what needed to keep colored pipple out so be it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 17, 2018, 12:43:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 17, 2018, 12:42:04 AM
Does that mean your sister thinks it's ok to have Russia meddle in US elections? I guess if that's what needed to keep colored pipple out so be it?

That's my read on it. I try not to discuss these things anymore, and I also don't post Snopes links under their hoaxes anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on July 17, 2018, 06:00:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2018, 12:43:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 17, 2018, 12:42:04 AM
Does that mean your sister thinks it's ok to have Russia meddle in US elections? I guess if that's what needed to keep colored pipple out so be it?

That's my read on it. I try not to discuss these things anymore, and I also don't post Snopes links under their hoaxes anymore.

Well we still appreciate you and your posts in this thread, wasn't the same without you.:hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 17, 2018, 06:34:00 AM
I do like how the rightards have now inflated the number of illegal voters to 20 million.  Soon, there will be more illegal voters than people in the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 18, 2018, 04:29:36 PM
This one is for Syt, Zanza and other Germanophones, to celebrate Trump's vision of Montenegrine aggression, but this dates from the NATO referendum in Montenegro in December 2015:

QuoteGegen NATO-Provokation gegenüber Russland! Hoffentlich sind die Montenegriner und ihre Entscheidungsträger weise genug, nicht für einen NATO-Beitritt zu stimmen! Wir haben schon Krieg im Nahen Osten - es reicht! KEIN KRIEG IN EUROPA! Am Ende ist es egal, wem man die Schuld zuschiebt, wer sich moralisch erhaben fühlt - sterben werden wieder Millionen von Menschen. Sind 60 Jahre Frieden genug? Ich sage NEIN! Und es ist in unserem ureigensten Interesse, sich für den Frieden einzusetzen, denn unser eigenes Leben und das unser Kinder ist bedroht - wo würden wir denn hin flüchten? Wenn wir überhaupt flüchten können, denn der nächste Krieg in Europa wird der dritte Weltkrieg sein, und diesmal wird es ein NUKLEARKRIEG sein. Wenden wir uns unseren russischen Schwestern und Brüdern wieder ohne Arroganz zu - Putin ist NICHT Hitler! Die NATO-Erweiterung muss gestoppt werden! FRIEDEN - PEACE - мир

I get the gist of it (no to NATO expansion) but I am sure German speakers will appreciate even more!
From a leftish (ex)-Green voter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 18, 2018, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 17, 2018, 12:43:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 17, 2018, 12:42:04 AM
Does that mean your sister thinks it's ok to have Russia meddle in US elections? I guess if that's what needed to keep colored pipple out so be it?

That's my read on it. I try not to discuss these things anymore, and I also don't post Snopes links under their hoaxes anymore.


One of the more interesting things I've noticed about the Trump Cult of Personality is that his followers don't appear to care if a statement is true or false.  If force to admit something is true you get something like "yeah will it triggered you libtards."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 18, 2018, 09:26:34 PM
We've reached this point where the DoJ is corrupt, the FBI is corrupt, the press is an enemy of the people, Russian meddling is false, or fine, or both, really, Trump is a good Christian inspired by Jesus, the entire government is run by the deep state that tries its utmost to prevent Trump from draining the swamp, he's an amazing negotiator, and Democrats are traitors, while Conservatives, who control all three branches of the American government, are the real victims here.

Also, there going to be a 12 million dollars military parade for the benefit of Trumps ego, and I am pretty sure that no one will oppose it, because of course, it would be unpatriotic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 19, 2018, 12:08:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TUWvHAA.jpg)

Achieving one of his key summit aims, President Donald Trump gets a ball.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 19, 2018, 12:21:46 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 18, 2018, 09:26:34 PM
We've reached this point where the DoJ is corrupt, the FBI is corrupt, the press is an enemy of the people, Russian meddling is false, or fine, or both, really, Trump is a good Christian inspired by Jesus, the entire government is run by the deep state that tries its utmost to prevent Trump from draining the swamp, he's an amazing negotiator, and Democrats are traitors, while Conservatives, who control all three branches of the American government, are the real victims here.

Also, there going to be a 12 million dollars military parade for the benefit of Trumps ego, and I am pretty sure that no one will oppose it, because of course, it would be unpatriotic.

I don't get the 'draining of the swamp' thing. I mean, sure fighting political corruption is important but that requires institutional reforms. But...um...there is no plan for any such thing. It is like corruption will be fought through arbitrary pointing out of traitors rather than anything substantial.

Or not. I don't get that part. I really do not. I mean how exactly is the swamp being drained? How is it supposed to be drained? Is there any substance to any of this at all or is this just one big insane masturbation session.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 19, 2018, 12:28:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 19, 2018, 12:21:46 AM
just one big insane masturbation session.

That's the entire Trump presidency right there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 19, 2018, 05:57:13 PM
That's an image hard to forget.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 19, 2018, 06:34:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/o46AnB1.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 19, 2018, 06:37:36 PM
 :lol:

He never did release those tax returns, did he.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 19, 2018, 06:49:17 PM
Indeed. The gamble was that it would hurt him far less to withhold them than to reveal them. So far, he's been proven right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 20, 2018, 12:25:55 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37325440_1760879090666791_8906894004394655744_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=f9c3518a58a2f3f491922eb983d0441c&oe=5BCC42AC)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37534598_1031691057000412_5441647203808444416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=1fc390fe119d6ffb41950b5b4f189651&oe=5BDE529D)


Also, let's laugh about violence against political enemies:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37105287_1995916043754817_4971565670371164160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b3cb1432bbf75df0c64ec6b94d678ba&oe=5BDF815F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 07:39:15 AM
:punk:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 08:53:06 AM
Which Democrats want non-US citizens to vote in our elections?

Of all the weird 'whataboutisms' they spout versus actually justifying their positions this is...well...par for the course actually.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 08:53:06 AM
Which Democrats want non-US citizens to vote in our elections?

Presumably the ones that want full amnesty for all illegal aliens. 

And San Francisco: https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article215095600.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 20, 2018, 10:46:20 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
Well that is different. They want to turn illegal immigrants into citizens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 20, 2018, 11:11:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
Well that is different. They want to turn illegal immigrants into citizens.

That would both create more coloured citizens AND remove slave labour. Surely that's no way for AMERICA!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
Well that is different. They want to turn illegal immigrants into citizens.

So they can vote for Democrats.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 20, 2018, 11:40:38 AM
Yes, an important goal for SF is to make sure there are enough Dems in the city...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 11:41:17 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
Well that is different. They want to turn illegal immigrants into citizens.

So they can vote for Democrats.

Will they? I don't know. Many of the illegal immigrants have very conservative instincts. Despite Texas having a huge minority immigrant population they still vote for Republicans in large numbers. I am not so sure the facts back this view up.

I mean yes a majority vote Democratic but it is not a huge majority.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 20, 2018, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
Well that is different. They want to turn illegal immigrants into citizens.

So they can vote for Democrats.


:lol:


Oh, you were serious.  Let me laugh even harder.   :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 20, 2018, 11:43:41 AM
If they vote for Republicans they hate America. God I think it may take a few decades before I can think about the GOP again without snickering. What a bunch of major tools.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 20, 2018, 11:49:11 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 20, 2018, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
Well that is different. They want to turn illegal immigrants into citizens.

So they can vote for Democrats.


:lol:


Oh, you were serious.  Let me laugh even harder.   :lmfao:

You're being pretty naive if you don't think that influences dems positions on immigration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 11:52:33 AM
My views on this have nothing to do with that but I cannot prove a negative.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 20, 2018, 11:56:45 AM
Speaking more about politicians and people who get paid to get them elected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 20, 2018, 11:57:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
Well that is different. They want to turn illegal immigrants into citizens.

So they can vote for Democrats.

So the argument is that in order to counter the electoral impact of naturalizing foreign born residents of the US, it is justifiable to encourage foreign states to manipulate the electoral results as form of redress?

Isn't that an admission of knowing and deliberate treachery? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 12:00:41 PM
Are you asking me or the person who put together that meme-thingy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2018, 12:01:05 PM
What's interesting about the first picture in that tryptich is it suggests the mouthbreathers see Putin as on their side.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 12:01:40 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 20, 2018, 11:56:45 AM
Speaking more about politicians and people who get paid to get them elected.

Ah. I guess I thought that was an attack on people who were Democrats rather than the politicians. But if that is the motivation of the politicians, as I said, I bet they would be disappointed with the results.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 12:06:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 12:01:40 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 20, 2018, 11:56:45 AM
Speaking more about politicians and people who get paid to get them elected.

Ah. I guess I thought that was an attack on people who were Democrats rather than the politicians. But if that is the motivation of the politicians, as I said, I bet they would be disappointed with the results.

Doubtful.  If Democrats keep promoting welfare spending and keep doing the identity politics thing, a significant majority of amnestied illegals will vote Democrat.  Even if it's just 60% it would be a big net benefit to the Dems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 12:06:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 12:01:40 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 20, 2018, 11:56:45 AM
Speaking more about politicians and people who get paid to get them elected.

Ah. I guess I thought that was an attack on people who were Democrats rather than the politicians. But if that is the motivation of the politicians, as I said, I bet they would be disappointed with the results.

Doubtful.  If Democrats keep promoting welfare spending and keep doing the identity politics thing, a significant majority of amnestied illegals will vote Democrat.  Even if it's just 60% it would be a big net benefit to the Dems.

Maybe. But we will probably never know for sure.

But I will point out that these sorts of calculations have failed for the Dems in the past.

Edit: There is also the problem, at least from the Democrats point of view, that these populations tend to have very low voter turnout rates and are often non-political in their dispositions in general.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 20, 2018, 12:09:46 PM
What will more Dem voters in California do?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 12:17:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 20, 2018, 12:09:46 PM
What will more Dem voters in California do?

Dunno, maybe help turn some of the few Republican districts?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 20, 2018, 12:20:59 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 12:00:41 PM
Are you asking me or the person who put together that meme-thingy?

I'm asking the 79% or so of GOP voters who actually though Helsinki was a successful summit meeting.  That's like calling Pearl Harbor a productive negotiating session.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2018, 12:25:51 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 20, 2018, 12:20:59 PM
I'm asking the 79% or so of GOP voters who actually though Helsinki was a successful summit meeting.  That's like calling Pearl Harbor a productive negotiating session.

But you directed the question at Speesh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 12:30:12 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 20, 2018, 12:20:59 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 12:00:41 PM
Are you asking me or the person who put together that meme-thingy?

I'm asking the 79% or so of GOP voters who actually though Helsinki was a successful summit meeting.  That's like calling Pearl Harbor a productive negotiating session.

It's somewhat less than that, but if I run into any of them this weekend I'll pass it along.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 20, 2018, 01:10:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 12:30:12 PM
It's somewhat less than that, but if I run into any of them this weekend I'll pass it along.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/poll-vast-majority-of-republican-voters-unbothered-by-trumps-helsinki-press-conference/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 20, 2018, 01:11:49 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2018, 12:25:51 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 20, 2018, 12:20:59 PM
I'm asking the 79% or so of GOP voters who actually though Helsinki was a successful summit meeting.  That's like calling Pearl Harbor a productive negotiating session.

But you directed the question at Speesh.

I wasn't implying he held those beliefs, but he was "interpreting" for those that do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 01:26:20 PM
And I wasn't even addressing that part of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 20, 2018, 01:59:28 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 20, 2018, 11:56:45 AM
Speaking more about politicians and people who get paid to get them elected.


You know a lot of politicians?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 02:26:10 PM
A friend of my mom's just posted this.  Sorry if Syt's in-laws already posted it:

(https://pics.me.me/according-to-msm-this-is-fine-this-is-fine-this-34838064.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 03:30:17 PM
Yeah nobody is saying that. But as I recall the MSM hammered Obama for his 'reset button' and, as it turned out, rightly so. They also gave shit to Bush Jr. and his 'seeing into Putin's Soul' stuff. So this is also a false narrative.

Ah well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 03:30:17 PM
Yeah nobody is saying that. But as I recall the MSM hammered Obama for his 'reset button' and, as it turned out, rightly so.

Did the MSM do that?  I thought it was mostly from right wing outlets.

QuoteThey also gave shit to Bush Jr. and his 'seeing into Putin's Soul' stuff. So this is also a false narrative.

No, that was just Seedy.  Over and over and over :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 03:55:24 PM
Don't right wing outlets make up a substantial portion of the mainstream media? I mean I hated Putin and saw very hostile articles in the media about him from the moment he first showed up (around 1998 I think?) so I am very skeptical the media has been proclaiming him 'fine' or all of our dealings with him 'fine'. This is just more attempts to prevent from actually having to defend anything and just make fake equivalencies to lean on.

QuoteNo, that was just Seedy.  Over and over and over

He gaslighted me :weep:

But I could have sworn it was not just him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 04:00:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 03:55:24 PM
Don't right wing outlets make up a substantial portion of the mainstream media? I mean I hated Putin and saw very hostile articles in the media about him from the moment he first showed up in 1998 so I am very skeptical the media has been proclaiming him 'fine' or all of our dealings with him 'fine'. This is just more attempts to prevent from actually having to defend anything and just make fake equivalencies to lean on.

Depends on how you define MSM, I guess.  I don't really consider Fox News to be part of the MSM, for example.

Quote
QuoteNo, that was just Seedy.  Over and over and over

He gaslighted me :weep:

But I could have sworn it was not just him.

You're probably right.  But I only remember him saying it.  Over and over and over.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 05:29:21 PM
If the big networks are not mainstream, what is?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on July 20, 2018, 05:32:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 05:29:21 PM
If the big networks are not mainstream, what is?

Mainstream is code for leftist, so even if Fox was the only tv news network it wouldn't be mainstream.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2018, 05:35:53 PM
Quote from: frunk on July 20, 2018, 05:32:27 PM
Mainstream is code for leftist

The term is also used by the fringe left to describe CNN et al.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 20, 2018, 06:03:46 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 04:00:10 PM
Depends on how you define MSM, I guess.  I don't really consider Fox News to be part of the MSM, for example.

So Fox is fringe media?  Do they know that?

If you define "mainstream" as "anything derspies doesn't like" then you are defining  "anything derspies does like" as "fringe."  Sure you want to go there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 06:20:56 PM
It's a tough thing to define. Maybe Fox News is mainstream now, as big as they are.

I think you're reading too much into my post, g. I haven't considered Fox News mainstream in the same way I haven't considered MSNBC mainstream.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on July 20, 2018, 06:37:01 PM
Fox is alt-news  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 20, 2018, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 03:30:17 PM
Yeah nobody is saying that. But as I recall the MSM hammered Obama for his 'reset button' and, as it turned out, rightly so. They also gave shit to Bush Jr. and his 'seeing into Putin's Soul' stuff. So this is also a false narrative.

Ah well.


Yeah, Obama was naive on that.  He was Naive about a lot of things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 10:56:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 20, 2018, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 03:30:17 PM
Yeah nobody is saying that. But as I recall the MSM hammered Obama for his 'reset button' and, as it turned out, rightly so. They also gave shit to Bush Jr. and his 'seeing into Putin's Soul' stuff. So this is also a false narrative.

Ah well.


Yeah, Obama was naive on that.  He was Naive about a lot of things.

His only flaw was that he was too nice to Republicans, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2018, 01:36:19 AM
He was a bit naive about them, wasn't he?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2018, 01:41:23 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 10:56:23 PM
His only flaw was that he was too nice to Republicans, right?

What do you think his flaws were?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 21, 2018, 01:57:25 AM
Mom jeans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2018, 02:34:54 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2018, 01:41:23 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 20, 2018, 10:56:23 PM
His only flaw was that he was too nice to Republicans, right?

What do you think his flaws were?


Problem of tone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2018, 02:46:46 AM
Currently there's a lot of frothing about how Judge Janine was treated on The View. Considering that JJ isn't sunshine and roses in her commentaries I'm sure both sides (Whoopie Goldberg and JJ) went into this knowing that such a clash would play well to their audiences - The View's because WG doesn't take shit, and JJ's because "see how bad libtards are."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 21, 2018, 03:00:05 AM
Quote from: frunk on July 20, 2018, 05:32:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2018, 05:29:21 PM
If the big networks are not mainstream, what is?

Mainstream is code for leftist, so even if Fox was the only tv news network it wouldn't be mainstream.
But the mainstream media is overwhelmingly right wing? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2018, 04:17:20 AM
:pinch:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 27, 2018, 12:51:31 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390268661568503811/470416877143719939/37316390_2273375479344202_6197383245416366080_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 27, 2018, 12:55:44 PM
Meanwhile, in Anhui province, PRC

(https://images.dailykos.com/images/570200/story_image/AP_18207143753725.jpg?1532611813)

... doesn't seem like the tariffs are working that well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on July 27, 2018, 01:29:40 PM
 :D :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 27, 2018, 02:46:30 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 27, 2018, 12:51:31 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390268661568503811/470416877143719939/37316390_2273375479344202_6197383245416366080_n.jpg)
Honesty from top to bottom, refreshing and uncommon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 27, 2018, 04:47:42 PM
It looks like you is waving the Haitian flag though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on July 29, 2018, 09:12:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 27, 2018, 04:47:42 PM
It looks like you is waving the Haitian flag though.

I was thinking Liechtenstein  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 29, 2018, 11:17:05 PM
When ever I see a Trump supporter calling themselves a "deplorable" I can't help but think that they are saying, "I'm openly identifying as a racist".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2018, 12:24:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2018, 11:17:05 PM
When ever I see a Trump supporter calling themselves a "deplorable" I can't help but think that they are saying, "I'm openly identifying as a racist".

They're not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 30, 2018, 12:35:26 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2018, 12:24:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2018, 11:17:05 PM
When ever I see a Trump supporter calling themselves a "deplorable" I can't help but think that they are saying, "I'm openly identifying as a racist".

They're not.

Nah. They are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2018, 01:25:25 AM
They would reject the narrative that they supported Trump over Hillary because they're racist. Whether they are racist or not, they're clearly not openly identifying as such.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 30, 2018, 02:47:17 AM
True, they aren't literally saying it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 30, 2018, 11:59:07 AM
Saw this on Facebook and got a chuckle.

QuoteAn infinite number of mathematicians walk into a bar.[/size]The first mathematician orders a beer
[/color][/size]The second orders half a beer
"I don't serve half-beers" the bartender replies
"Excuse me?" Asks mathematician #2
"What kind of bar serves half-beers?" The bartender remarks. "That's ridiculous."
"Oh c'mon" says mathematician #1 "do you know how hard it is to collect an infinite number of us? Just play along"
"There are very strict laws on how I can serve drinks. I couldn't serve you half a beer even if I wanted to."
"But that's not a problem" mathematician #3 chimes in "at the end of the joke you serve us a whole number of beers. You see, when you take the sum of a continuously halving function-"
"I know how limits work" interjects the bartender
"Oh, alright then. I didn't want to assume a bartender would be familiar with such advanced mathematics"
"Are you kidding me?" The bartender replies, "you learn limits in like, 9th grade! What kind of mathematician thinks limits are advanced mathematics?"
"HE'S ON TO US" mathematician #1 screeches
Simultaneously, every mathematician opens their mouth and out pours a cloud of multicolored mosquitoes. Each mathematician is bellowing insects of a different shade.
The mosquitoes form into a singular, polychromatic swarm. "FOOLS" it booms in unison, "I WILL INFECT EVERY BEING ON THIS PATHETIC PLANET WITH MALARIA"
The bartender stands fearless against the technicolor hoard. "But wait" he inturrupts, thinking fast, "if you do that, politicians will use the catastrophe as an excuse to implement free healthcare. Think of how much that will hurt the taxpayers!"
The mosquitoes fall silent for a brief moment. "My God, you're right. We didn't think about the economy! Very well, we will not attack this dimension. FOR THE TAXPAYERS!" and with that, they vanish.
A nearby barfly stumbles over to the bartender. "How did you know that that would work?"
"It's simple really" the bartender says. "I saw that the vectors formed a gradient, and therefore must be conservative."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 02, 2018, 07:04:49 AM
Social media woes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/crowds-trample-canada-sunflower-farm

QuoteFarm regrets opening fields after social-media butterflies trample flowers

The hope was to earn a little extra income during the two weeks that the family farm's crop was in bloom.

But Ontario's largest sunflower grower soon found itself backtracking on the idea, after it was swarmed by selfie-seeking visitors who trampled all over their crops and clogged up the nearby highway.

Bogle Seeds – a sixth-generation family farm near Toronto – had prepared for the crowds by hiring eight extra staff and setting up portable toilets.

What they hadn't taken into consideration, however, was social media – where selfies snapped along the farm's 1.3km (0.8 miles) patch of sunflowers were quickly going viral.

"Everyone was laughing and having fun," Barry Bogle told the Globe and Mail. "Then all of Toronto showed up."

On Saturday, cars began rolling in hours before the farm was set to open. By noon, the area was flooded with sunflower seekers, some who had parked more than a kilometre away.

As staff struggled to control the hordes, hundreds strolled directly into the fields without paying while others left their garbage among the blooms.

Police were soon called in to help manage the chaos. People, at times with strollers or children in tow, were crossing four lanes of traffic to get to the farm. Neighbours complained of people parking on their properties and, in one case, urinating in their bushes.

After the crowd swelled to an estimated 7,000 cars – far exceeding the space available in the farm's 300-car parking lot – police asked the family to shut down the operation.

Similar situations have been playing out at sunflower farms across the country, with one farmer in Manitoba complaining that some 2,000 people had been traipsing around his property last weekend in search of the perfect shot.

At the Bogle family farm, the full extent of the damage done won't be known until the sunflowers are harvested in autumn. Their focus is now on getting the message out that they are closed to sunflower seekers, likely forever.

Reaction to the news has been mixed; some accused the family of ruining their vacation while others simply drove around the corner and – selfie sticks in hand – snuck past the "no trespassing" signs.

"I'm getting the finger quite often," Brad Bogle told the National Post. "I'm getting people yelling at me. I'm getting people telling me, 'I drove two hours, three hours, I deserve to get my picture taken'."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on August 02, 2018, 07:13:58 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 02, 2018, 07:04:49 AM
Social media woes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/crowds-trample-canada-sunflower-farm

QuoteFarm regrets opening fields after social-media butterflies trample flowers
.......

After the crowd swelled to an estimated 7,000 cars – far exceeding the space available in the farm's 300-car parking lot – police asked the family to shut down the operation.

Reaction to the news has been mixed; some accused the family of ruining their vacation while others simply drove around the corner and – selfie sticks in hand – snuck past the "no trespassing" signs.

"I'm getting the finger quite often," Brad Bogle told the National Post. "I'm getting people yelling at me. I'm getting people telling me, 'I drove two hours, three hours, I deserve to get my picture taken'."

These people will be easily manipulated into taking part in torch lit night-time marches.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 02, 2018, 07:24:52 AM
Quote from: mongers on August 02, 2018, 07:13:58 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 02, 2018, 07:04:49 AM
Social media woes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/crowds-trample-canada-sunflower-farm

QuoteFarm regrets opening fields after social-media butterflies trample flowers
.......

After the crowd swelled to an estimated 7,000 cars – far exceeding the space available in the farm's 300-car parking lot – police asked the family to shut down the operation.

Reaction to the news has been mixed; some accused the family of ruining their vacation while others simply drove around the corner and – selfie sticks in hand – snuck past the "no trespassing" signs.

"I'm getting the finger quite often," Brad Bogle told the National Post. "I'm getting people yelling at me. I'm getting people telling me, 'I drove two hours, three hours, I deserve to get my picture taken'."

These people will be easily manipulated into taking part in torch lit night-time marches.

Yes, but that has been the case throughout history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on August 02, 2018, 12:23:33 PM
Interesting article about the '#QAnon' conspiracy theory currently being embraced by some Trump followers. Informative, but I didn't get to the end, not because it's not well written, but the insanity of the subject matter:

Quote

What is the '#QAnon' conspiracy theory?

A sprawling, endlessly complicated pro-Trump conspiracy theory has jumped from fringe social media sites to mainstream attention.

The signs, shirts and banners at a rally in support of President Trump on Tuesday were, to the uninitiated, baffling.

"We are Q," read one sign at the event in Florida.

"WHERE WE GO ONE WE GO ALL," read another.

Others wore T-shirts with the letter "Q" and slogans such as "The Great Awakening".

All are references to a conspiracy theory gripping fringe pro-Trump activists - albeit a growing number of them, including celebrities, media personalities and influential social media accounts.

It's nebulous and continuously changing to adapt to current events, but the overarching conspiracy theory has been given a name: "QAnon".
...

Full item here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45040614 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45040614)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 02, 2018, 12:41:04 PM
Probably that Star Trek guy. He's a bit of a prankster.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 02, 2018, 12:43:35 PM
Nice that some people still use "anon". :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 02, 2018, 12:57:28 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 02, 2018, 12:23:33 PM
Interesting article about the '#QAnon' conspiracy theory currently being embraced by some Trump followers. Informative, but I didn't get to the end, not because it's not well written, but the insanity of the subject matter:

Quote

What is the '#QAnon' conspiracy theory?

A sprawling, endlessly complicated pro-Trump conspiracy theory has jumped from fringe social media sites to mainstream attention.

The signs, shirts and banners at a rally in support of President Trump on Tuesday were, to the uninitiated, baffling.

"We are Q," read one sign at the event in Florida.

"WHERE WE GO ONE WE GO ALL," read another.

Others wore T-shirts with the letter "Q" and slogans such as "The Great Awakening".

All are references to a conspiracy theory gripping fringe pro-Trump activists - albeit a growing number of them, including celebrities, media personalities and influential social media accounts.

It's nebulous and continuously changing to adapt to current events, but the overarching conspiracy theory has been given a name: "QAnon".
...

Full item here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45040614 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45040614)


I think it is very telling that this fantasy that so many Trump supporters are interested in is essentially despotism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 03, 2018, 10:44:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38272613_2252900948057585_5376365659414331392_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=57e5d81ab6861d9316213a51a41026a3&oe=5C1212D9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 03, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
This thread makes me think that Garbon has a point  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 04, 2018, 12:36:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38301080_695250647484605_3293360057621676032_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=9b66d85dc95011d778d670bc5f986591&oe=5C103574)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on August 10, 2018, 09:03:20 AM
(https://asset.dr.dk/imagescaler/?file=/images/crop/2018/08/09/1533813304_fake.jpg&server=www.dr.dk&w=700&h=393&scaleAfter=crop&quality=75&ratio=16-9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 10, 2018, 09:06:09 AM
Haven't decided if I should laugh or cry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 10, 2018, 09:28:20 AM
I haven't had any gender theory education. I feel like I'm being ripped off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 10, 2018, 09:38:13 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 10, 2018, 09:28:20 AM
I haven't had any gender theory education. I feel like I'm being ripped off.
:console: To be fair, we didn't have that many genders back then, there wasn't as much to learn.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 10, 2018, 12:08:48 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 10, 2018, 09:28:20 AM
I haven't had any gender theory education. I feel like I'm being ripped off.

Is there neutral in Swedish grammar? I'm asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 11, 2018, 03:03:41 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 10, 2018, 12:08:48 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 10, 2018, 09:28:20 AM
I haven't had any gender theory education. I feel like I'm being ripped off.

Is there neutral in Swedish grammar? I'm asking for a friend.

Oh you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 13, 2018, 02:24:15 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38864825_2042890129106427_3520785873094311936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=15d10ff35f609a8879228c45860b6840&oe=5C073513)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39042023_1695265027251573_6690804898155462656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=b4d5ecd0b5cf4d14b779193b0d0af7e5&oe=5BF63CA3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 13, 2018, 06:12:12 AM
what's an "ass-off"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on August 13, 2018, 06:24:43 AM
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/5820602221001/?#sp=show-clips

Denmark = Venezuela according to Fox. Crazy how much manipulation and wrongful statements you can cram into a 3 minute clip.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 13, 2018, 06:54:01 AM
Quote from: Liep on August 13, 2018, 06:24:43 AM
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/5820602221001/?#sp=show-clips

Denmark = Venezuela according to Fox. Crazy how much manipulation and wrongful statements you can cram into a 3 minute clip.

I couldn't listen to that for more than a minute.  What Democrats "talk about socialism?"  Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 13, 2018, 08:14:37 AM
Ocasio-Cortez?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 13, 2018, 08:25:20 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 13, 2018, 08:14:37 AM
Ocasio-Cortez?

Exactly my point.  Nobodies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 13, 2018, 12:40:30 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38948718_1814984908579713_4799847453333389312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=4af08e425140fd9bf799de4c83a6220a&oe=5C0F527F)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39042036_304687793413356_1347668129399963648_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7846a5279965960e7b0ee65c23e65640&oe=5BFB9D40)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 13, 2018, 12:53:48 PM
Not sure what that third photo is and why it means people have forgotten the tragedy in New York.

As for the first photo:

QuoteBecause the meme does not cite any sources, it's unclear where its creators got the information to claim "871 Convicted Felons" are currently playing for the NFL. Unsurprisingly, that information is incorrect.

The only source we could locate that has a similar figure is a database created by USA Today sports reporter Brent Schrotenboer, who tracked down 870 arrests of NFL players going back to the year 2000. But a simple scan of the database reveals that many of the arrests were for misdemeanor charges — driving while intoxicated arrests make up the largest number. Others haven't been adjudicated yet, and in many of the cases in which a player was arrested, they were released by their teams, meaning they are in fact no longer playing.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/are-there-871-convicted-felons-currently-playing-for-the-nfl/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 13, 2018, 12:55:38 PM
I knew that was a totally made up statistic. I mean not that facts matter to political propaganda people.

I generally presume that all memes are lies. Even the ones that say nothing untrue are still intending to communicate something that is manipulative.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 13, 2018, 12:56:35 PM
The third picture are people protesting the Muslim ban. Because if you remember 9/11 you will know to ban people who are from countries other than Saudi Arabia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 14, 2018, 12:02:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2018, 12:56:35 PM
The third picture are people protesting the Muslim ban. Because if you remember 9/11 you will know to ban people who are from countries other than Saudi Arabia.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 14, 2018, 11:14:12 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2018, 12:55:38 PM

I generally presume that all memes are lies. Even the ones that say nothing untrue are still intending to communicate something that is manipulative.

It's kinda interesting that propaganda has made such a big comeback.  I honestly thought we had grown too sophisticated for that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 15, 2018, 07:57:53 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39109172_1275340909267864_1827669680081338368_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=a8fac3d657a2a5de3ee0d9b6e19a148a&oe=5BF33F32)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2018, 07:59:41 AM
What a weirdly left wing thing for your family to post  :huh:

'The government doesn't spend enough on entitlements and way too much on prisons!'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 15, 2018, 08:02:41 AM
You have this wrong: entitlements are always bad, if they're not getting them. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2018, 08:06:32 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 15, 2018, 08:02:41 AM
You have this wrong: entitlements are always bad, if they're not getting them. ;)

I do see weird right wing propaganda ads sometimes that say things like 'Democrats are opposed to Seniors getting big checks from the government! Take advantage of this special program to get big government checks!'

I was glad to see my party taking such a bold step against out of control entitlements :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 15, 2018, 08:59:38 AM
I think Facebook should deploy their scientists to develop a "stupid index".  Anytime you post a stupid meme or a fake news article, your stupid points go up.  Any time you reply with the appropriate Snopes link to some stupid shit, your stupid index goes down.  Those who reach a certain threshold of stupidity would be asked to switch to Twitter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2018, 09:10:22 AM
I have been informed that Snopes is liberal propaganda so I cannot use that anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 15, 2018, 09:20:24 AM
Good man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2018, 09:25:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 15, 2018, 09:20:24 AM
Good man.

I mean I use it, I just cannot use it as a source we can agree upon as a common ground to have a discussion.

Which basically leaves me with jack shit. Therefore there is no reason to have any discussions since there is no common basis of agreement to start from.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 15, 2018, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2018, 09:25:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 15, 2018, 09:20:24 AM
Good man.

I mean I use it, I just cannot use it as a source we can agree upon as a common ground to have a discussion.

Which basically leaves me with jack shit. Therefore there is no reason to have any discussions since there is no common basis of agreement to start from.

There's really no reason to even attempt discussions with most Republicans, since discussions revolve around claims and the evidence for them, and most Republicans feel that claims themselves are evidence - "it if wasn't true, [insert Trump or Republican spokesman here] wouldn't have said it."  Those who've stuck with the Republican Party in spite of Trump, Cruz, et al don't care about reality.  They only care about feelz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 15, 2018, 09:55:36 AM
There is an interesting study or essay to be written about this one topic: our society has seen so many advances specifically due to embracing the power of determining objective truth despite prejudice and self-interest (for example, through the scientific method); so how and why did so many people turn their backs on the very process that has such demonstrated success?

An example that transcends the current shitstorm of partisan politics is the anti-vaxxer business. This seems to be something that idiots on the left and right can both embrace.

Vaccination is perhaps the single most important medical advance ever made, in terms of numbers of lives saved. I have read that not even antbiotics have had a greater impact, as childhood diseases not prevented by vaccines used to kill a significant proportion of the population. It is heartrending to walk through 19th century cemeteries and see all of the infant graves, one after the other, from the same family. Yet a significant proportion of the population, it appears, simply wants to believe vaccination is actively harmful.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 15, 2018, 10:15:21 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 15, 2018, 09:55:36 AM
There is an interesting study or essay to be written about this one topic: our society has seen so many advances specifically due to embracing the power of determining objective truth despite prejudice and self-interest (for example, through the scientific method); so how and why did so many people turn their backs on the very process that has such demonstrated success?

An example that transcends the current shitstorm of partisan politics is the anti-vaxxer business. This seems to be something that idiots on the left and right can both embrace.

Vaccination is perhaps the single most important medical advance ever made, in terms of numbers of lives saved. I have read that not even antbiotics have had a greater impact, as childhood diseases not prevented by vaccines used to kill a significant proportion of the population. It is heartrending to walk through 19th century cemeteries and see all of the infant graves, one after the other, from the same family. Yet a significant proportion of the population, it appears, simply wants to believe vaccination is actively harmful.


I think there is major rebellion going on.  A rebellion against expertise.  People resent being told what is true and what is not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 15, 2018, 10:28:09 AM
More to the point they want to inflict misery on others (and obviously themselves but who cares).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 15, 2018, 10:32:59 AM
I think ultimately all upheavals, justified or unjustified in a moral/historic sense come about due to economic reasons. People like all lifeforms play it safe and there needs to be a feeling, at least subconscious, that upsetting the current order of things cannot risk what they have. If they think they can have it better in the new order it's much better of course.

You get that with a critical mass of people and you either get trouble or glorious revolutions depending on who gets to write the history books.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 15, 2018, 10:39:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2018, 09:25:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 15, 2018, 09:20:24 AM
Good man.

I mean I use it, I just cannot use it as a source we can agree upon as a common ground to have a discussion.

Which basically leaves me with jack shit. Therefore there is no reason to have any discussions since there is no common basis of agreement to start from.

I use it quite a bit myself.  I have to take it with a grain of salt sometimes, because occasionally there is a political slant. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 15, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 15, 2018, 10:28:09 AM
More to the point they want to inflict misery on others (and obviously themselves but who cares).

part of what makes vaccination so effective is herd immunity.  There are humans who cannot be immunized (babies for example) and so they are not only hurting themselves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2018, 11:27:59 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 15, 2018, 10:39:53 AM
I use it quite a bit myself.  I have to take it with a grain of salt sometimes, because occasionally there is a political slant. 

True. Especially when they break down opposing candidates claims. Also they have different people doing different claims which can lead to uneven results. I felt like they failed to rip Bernie's crazy shit as thoroughly as I would have liked. But I have my own bias there :P

Still it is a pretty nice resource. I appreciate they at least try to be objective, which is all I can ask.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 15, 2018, 11:32:35 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 15, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 15, 2018, 10:28:09 AM
More to the point they want to inflict misery on others (and obviously themselves but who cares).

part of what makes vaccination so effective is herd immunity.  There are humans who cannot be immunized (babies for example) and so they are not only hurting themselves.

This is why it should be illegal to not vaccinate your kids. It's fucking science its not a matter of opinion. We do not allow reckless driving no matter how hot we are for personal liberty. Same should go for being a medieval dimwit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2018, 11:34:13 AM
Huh. I thought some countries do require it :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 15, 2018, 01:50:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2018, 11:34:13 AM
Huh. I thought some countries do require it :hmm:

Yes. Rightly so
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 15, 2018, 03:32:28 PM
AFAIK, every state in the US requires it as well, but we make exceptions that shouldn't be made IMO.

Also, my impression (which could be inaccurate) is that even among those who aren't given exemptions, actual enforcement isn't as strict as it used to be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 15, 2018, 04:09:00 PM
Anti-vaxxers are just one example of a much larger trend: the notion that objective truth isn't even an ideal worthy to take seriously.

Certainly people have always lied to advance themselves or their political points, but at least generally speaking lying was seen as a bad thing - an attempt to fool people into thinking that something that wasn't objective true, was in fact true.

Increasingly, people don't even care. The lies they tell aren't even attempts to deceive, and so aren't even really "lies" in the ordinary sense. They simply state blatant falsehoods, and believe them true themselves, because they want to believe them true. They can't be exposed as wrong by producing facts and proof that contradict what they are saying, because they, and those who listen to them, don't care about facts or truth.

The current exemplars of this sort of thinking are of course the political right in the US, but it is by no means limited to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2018, 03:19:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13880292_10207113875620936_5997621278709339092_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9d485882b5a0ec480d626221972a9798&oe=5BF3BADE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2018, 09:13:03 AM
Stupid First Amendment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2018, 09:20:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38890095_1870959919690292_8461079130669056000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=9c879b81afa19883c58d8895eb95ee8d&oe=5BEDB33A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on August 16, 2018, 09:21:38 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 16, 2018, 09:13:03 AM
Stupid First Amendment.

Nah, the US does designate organizations as terrorist on a pretty regular basis; they just haven't designated the Muslim Brotherhood.

https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2018, 09:23:26 AM
Man you have to be pretty damn old to remember a lot of that stuff. I mean the stuff that actually happened there :P

I mean my great-grandmother was notorious for always being on weird diets and she has been dead for almost sixty year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2018, 09:25:11 AM
Quote from: ulmont on August 16, 2018, 09:21:38 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 16, 2018, 09:13:03 AM
Stupid First Amendment.

Nah, the US does designate organizations as terrorist on a pretty regular basis; they just haven't designated the Muslim Brotherhood.

https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

Ah. Nevermind then. Forbid association all you want.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 16, 2018, 10:17:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 16, 2018, 09:20:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38890095_1870959919690292_8461079130669056000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=9c879b81afa19883c58d8895eb95ee8d&oe=5BEDB33A)

So there are some of us old enough to have parents and grandparents who told us stories about the bad old days, of going hungry, friends and family dying from diseases that today are easily prevented or cured, deaths and horrid injuries working the land, violence and brutality, boys and girls not going to school because they had housework/farmwork to do.

But man that cream on the top of a jug of milk fresh from a cow made it all worth it - that is something absolutely non of my parents or grandparents said.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2018, 10:22:34 AM
My Grandmother sat my mother down and told her that because she was a woman she could only do one of three professional careers, being a teacher or a nurse or doing clerical work.

That was a woman who sure was content with her lot. Yep.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 16, 2018, 10:25:00 AM
Such an attitude so annoys me.

I have a big respect for anyone content with their lot, even (and especially) housewives and such, assuming they have had alternatives other than being content with it. Being barred from anything else is not the same thing.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 16, 2018, 10:31:24 AM
Those are noble professions :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2018, 10:36:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 16, 2018, 10:31:24 AM
Those are noble professions :)

They are! It is just some people may want a bit wider of a horizon :P

Anyway my Mom decided nursing was the way to go.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 16, 2018, 10:40:59 AM
My daughter has at times expressed an interest in engineering and computer programming-- she gets a good scolding when she starts talking crazy like that :angry:







Kidding-- I'll support whatever she wants to do.  I can't say no to her :wub:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2018, 10:47:17 AM
I am sure West Virginia has a great ECE program  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 16, 2018, 10:58:57 AM
I thank God my kids are not in West Virginia schools. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on August 16, 2018, 11:12:09 AM
Ah, the golden age of mythical America, where women stayed in the house and got pounded by the milkman while little Timmy secretly burned animals alive in the backyard, and the colored folk weren't admitted to the state university. Nothing bad ever happened in those days. Nothing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 16, 2018, 11:53:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 16, 2018, 09:20:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38890095_1870959919690292_8461079130669056000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=9c879b81afa19883c58d8895eb95ee8d&oe=5BEDB33A)

Well, the word "anorexia" was first coined in 1873 so anyone who remembers a time before that is at least 145 years old.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 16, 2018, 12:13:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 16, 2018, 10:31:24 AM
Those are noble professions :)

You could say that about pretty much every profession. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 16, 2018, 01:03:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 16, 2018, 10:22:34 AM
My Grandmother sat my mother down and told her that because she was a woman she could only do one of three professional careers, being a teacher or a nurse or doing clerical work.

That was a woman who sure was content with her lot. Yep.

:yes:

My mother in law was told she could only be a housewife.  She left home and became a nurse because in fact that was one of the few professions open to women at the time.  She then obtained her PhD in adult education and became a professor in the faculty of medicine at UBC.  I think she was motivated her whole life to put the lie to what she had been told.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 16, 2018, 01:21:03 PM
So you're telling me I ought to...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 16, 2018, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 16, 2018, 01:21:03 PM
So you're telling me I ought to...

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 16, 2018, 04:33:37 PM
Honestly I've always been the sort that responds well to negativity.  The positive "you can do anything" fluff never motivated me-- it was the negative stuff that challenged me and made me want to prove people wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 16, 2018, 05:50:39 PM
For me it was just hating being poor and having the luck to be given an opportunity to do something about it.  Most of the people I grew up with were not given that same opportunity, mainly because they were not 6'7''
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 16, 2018, 07:44:29 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 16, 2018, 05:50:39 PM
Most of the people I grew up with were not given that same opportunity, mainly because they were not 6'7''

Apparently, Canadian law schools have odd admittance criteria.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on August 16, 2018, 07:45:38 PM
Basketball scholarship maybe? We have those in Canada?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 16, 2018, 09:14:07 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 16, 2018, 07:45:38 PM
Basketball scholarship maybe? We have those in Canada?

The only reason I obtained an undergraduate degree is because a basketball coach recruited me a year after I graduated from high school. Where I grew up going to university was something nobody considered doing.  I had not thought about it as a possibility until my coach approached me.  And if he had not pursuaded admissions to let me in, I would have had no chance.

Once admitted my world changed completely.  I had some patient amazing profs who sparked my interest in learning.  I went on to be a successful student winning the Governor General award for academic excellence and after that I went on to where I am now.

It all started with a basketball coach taking a chance on me.  I see him every year for dinner.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 09:14:10 AM
Wish more college athletes would take full advantage of their educational opportunities like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 09:45:10 AM
I am sure there are many who do.  We just hear about the ones that go to college as a stepping stone to get to the professional leagues.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 09:47:57 AM
We had a member of our baseball team graduate last Spring and he tweeted out that he appreciated all the MLB teams who scouted him but he had already signed with an engineering firm. I thought that was cute.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 10:03:28 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 09:45:10 AM
I am sure there are many who do.  We just hear about the ones that go to college as a stepping stone to get to the professional leagues.

I know several who have.  Unfortunately, there are still too many that don't seize the educational opportunity and are left with nothing when their dream of playing at the pro level fizzles out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 10:03:28 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 09:45:10 AM
I am sure there are many who do.  We just hear about the ones that go to college as a stepping stone to get to the professional leagues.

I know several who have.  Unfortunately, there are still too many that don't seize the educational opportunity and are left with nothing when their dream of playing at the pro level fizzles out.

Remember Bengals Running Back James Brooks? Dude was illiterate and somehow had a degree from Auburn...I am sure there are less successful examples of that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on August 17, 2018, 10:48:11 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 16, 2018, 04:33:37 PM
Honestly I've always been the sort that responds well to negativity.  The positive "you can do anything" fluff never motivated me-- it was the negative stuff that challenged me and made me want to prove people wrong.
Shocked,  I am.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 11:23:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 10:10:10 AM
Remember Bengals Running Back James Brooks?

Of course, local legend.

QuoteDude was illiterate and somehow had a degree from Auburn...I am sure there are less successful examples of that sort of thing.

Yep.  That was kind of a different time, though.  Not as much scrutiny as we have these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 10:03:28 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 09:45:10 AM
I am sure there are many who do.  We just hear about the ones that go to college as a stepping stone to get to the professional leagues.

I know several who have.  Unfortunately, there are still too many that don't seize the educational opportunity and are left with nothing when their dream of playing at the pro level fizzles out.

I think that is a different issue.  Those "student" athletes are told that college is their way into the professional leagues.  I am not sure those individual athletes are to blame for accepting that as true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 17, 2018, 11:36:28 AM
I don't think many people will advise them that making the pros will be easy. If they count on the pro career and squander the academic opportunities, that is on them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 11:41:36 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
I think that is a different issue.  Those "student" athletes are told that college is their way into the professional leagues.  I am not sure those individual athletes are to blame for accepting that as true.

And it certainly is their way into the professional leagues-- if they are good enough to get that far.  But as we all know it's not a guaranteed way to the big leagues, and they should always have a backup plan.  I don't care what they're told-- they're young adults and should be able to think for themselves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 12:00:02 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 11:41:36 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
I think that is a different issue.  Those "student" athletes are told that college is their way into the professional leagues.  I am not sure those individual athletes are to blame for accepting that as true.

And it certainly is their way into the professional leagues-- if they are good enough to get that far.  But as we all know it's not a guaranteed way to the big leagues, and they should always have a backup plan.  I don't care what they're told-- they're young adults and should be able to think for themselves.

Which is why I think the US college system needs to be reformed.  Hard to expect a kid who has everyone pumping their tires during recruitment to form a realistic appraisal of their chances.  I knew I had no shot and approached university appropriately.   But more importantly education is something my coach really stressed.  How many coaches in competitive NCAA programs do the same?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 12:50:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 12:00:02 PM
How many coaches in competitive NCAA programs do the same?

Quite a few do, I think.  Some players choose to listen, and many do not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 12:51:58 PM
At Texas we have a pretty big infrastructure, along with many employees, devoted to getting our athletes to complete their degrees and make our AD academic stats look good by getting good grades. I presume all similarly sized programs have similar things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 12:50:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 17, 2018, 12:00:02 PM
How many coaches in competitive NCAA programs do the same?

Quite a few do, I think.  Some players choose to listen, and many do not.

Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 12:51:58 PM
At Texas we have a pretty big infrastructure, along with many employees, devoted to getting our athletes to complete their degrees and make our AD academic stats look good by getting good grades. I presume all similarly sized programs have similar things.

That is good to know  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 17, 2018, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 12:51:58 PM
At Texas we have a pretty big infrastructure, along with many employees, devoted to getting our athletes to complete their degrees and make our AD academic stats look good by getting good grades. I presume all similarly sized programs have similar things.

And how honest is it?   :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 17, 2018, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 12:51:58 PM
At Texas we have a pretty big infrastructure, along with many employees, devoted to getting our athletes to complete their degrees and make our AD academic stats look good by getting good grades. I presume all similarly sized programs have similar things.

And how honest is it?   :P

I suspect it depends on the sport. How much motivation is there to be crooked for the swim team?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 17, 2018, 08:42:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 17, 2018, 11:23:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 10:10:10 AM
Remember Bengals Running Back James Brooks?

Of course, local legend.

QuoteDude was illiterate and somehow had a degree from Auburn...I am sure there are less successful examples of that sort of thing.

Yep.  That was kind of a different time, though.  Not as much scrutiny as we have these days.


Plus, I mean, you know, Auburn.  I suspect many non-athlete graduates from there are illiterate.


:)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2018, 08:17:22 AM
I am a bit mystified as to why it is a bad thing to tell prospective pro athletes that the best way to get the coaching they need to succeed in turning their potential into performance, and to broaden their horizons even if they don't have pro abilities or desire, is playing for a university.   It gives them an incentive to do well in high school so as to maintain academic eligibility, and universities give them the exposure, the athletic coaching, the academic coaching, and the exposure to high-level peers and mentors that they just won't get from the minor leagues, the CFL, or overseas teams.  That all seems good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2018, 08:19:52 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 17, 2018, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2018, 12:51:58 PM
At Texas we have a pretty big infrastructure, along with many employees, devoted to getting our athletes to complete their degrees and make our AD academic stats look good by getting good grades. I presume all similarly sized programs have similar things.

And how honest is it?   :P

It is as honest as the coaches make it, so, generally, pretty honest.  You'll have your occasional UNC, but widespread cheating is so hard to keep secret that I'm sure the vast majority of caches steer clear of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 18, 2018, 09:57:48 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 18, 2018, 08:17:22 AM
I am a bit mystified as to why it is a bad thing to tell prospective pro athletes that the best way to get the coaching they need to succeed in turning their potential into performance, and to broaden their horizons even if they don't have pro abilities or desire, is playing for a university.   It gives them an incentive to do well in high school so as to maintain academic eligibility, and universities give them the exposure, the athletic coaching, the academic coaching, and the exposure to high-level peers and mentors that they just won't get from the minor leagues, the CFL, or overseas teams.  That all seems good.

Just this one quibble - the CFL does not hire football players that haven't finished their college eligibility.  I can't say for sure that's a league mandated rule (although I think it is, but I'm not an expert on the CFL CBA), but I have never, ever heard of an 18-20 year old being hired into the CFL.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2018, 10:35:19 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 18, 2018, 09:57:48 AM
Just this one quibble - the CFL does not hire football players that haven't finished their college eligibility.  I can't say for sure that's a league mandated rule (although I think it is, but I'm not an expert on the CFL CBA), but I have never, ever heard of an 18-20 year old being hired into the CFL.

Players are eligible to be drafted until after college eligibility, but only Canadian players are drafted.  So, you are quite correct for Canadian student-athletes.

I am told that there are no age restrictions for free agents (which all US players in the CFL are) and can't find any such limits.  Of course, no team would actually hire a player right out of high school when there are plenty of potential players who have gotten college coaching, diet, weight room, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 21, 2018, 02:48:21 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39301864_696667507338993_6567719167040946176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=2628826ff5133be4a0654a68cc2219e8&oe=5C0B3492)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 21, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
Rhythm. They're forgetting rhythm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 21, 2018, 02:50:17 PM
So I created a meme that is a distorting strawman?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 27, 2018, 02:58:43 AM
Video: https://www.facebook.com/DerrickQLewis/videos/1099450576873007/

QuoteBlack Man Shares Support for Confederate Flag and Monuments

"It's something that should be embraced by black folks." This man stood next to the old #SilentSam site with a confederate flag. He explained why confederate soldiers are his heroes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 27, 2018, 03:09:23 AM
The spokesman for the community.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 27, 2018, 09:14:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2018, 03:09:23 AM
The spokesman for the community.

Pretty sure he is speaking for the Black Confederate community :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 27, 2018, 09:15:49 AM
It is a very intimate community.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 28, 2018, 10:20:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40143823_938795066310173_1544957757084401664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=8ed4eb17379bbee45f0c7a2bc5b77a52&oe=5BFCF400)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 28, 2018, 10:22:02 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on August 28, 2018, 10:32:26 AM
My latest amusement comes from those that screech about how unified the media is against Trump as if that's some sure sign of collusion instead of a sign that Trump is truly awful enough to unify most journalistic outfits.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2018, 02:52:47 PM
I get how a handful of people can say if everyone hates him he must be doing something right.  After all, this kind of thinking is not completely absent on the wacko left.  What I don't get is how 40% of my neighbors can think this way, or what other rationale they're using to continue supporting him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 02:59:00 PM
You sure it's not 50+% in Iowa?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 03:03:35 PM
So we have a wacky ex-nanny,  Boys like her, so we still use her as an occasional baby-sitter.  We're a bit upset with her as she house-say for us when we went camping over the summer and the house was a total mess (I cleaned up pet feces from out bedroom).  She's talked about being on the autism spectrum before, and she's a lesbian.

She's changed her first name on FB a few times so I don't know what reasons.  So right now on FB she goes by the name of "Holden [her last name]".

But yesterday she posted a couple things about transgenderism - in particular an article on "how I survived my first year post-transition" with her comment "Boy I needed that!".  And I just realized that FB uses male pronouns for her.

How do you ask someone if they identify as transgender?  I mean with her(him?) almost nothing would shock me, and I certainly would never pry, but this FB stuff (we are FB friends) is out there for me to see...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 28, 2018, 03:31:23 PM
Just ask the person how they would like to be addressed.  They will tell you the appropriate pronoun.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Some cisgendered people will be insulted by the question.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Some cisgendered people will be insulted by the question.

There isn't much you can do if people are going to get upset at polite behavior.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Some cisgendered people will be insulted by the question.

There isn't much you can do if people are going to get upset at polite behavior.

Would you find it polite if someone asked if you were a woman?  :huh:

I think bbs default position(don't pry) is generally best.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 03:40:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Some cisgendered people will be insulted by the question.

There isn't much you can do if people are going to get upset at polite behavior.

I mean, that's one perspective.

But I can also tell you it's my personal practice to never, ever ask a woman if she is pregnant, no matter how far along, until they bring it up.

Question is - has my nanny "brought it up"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 28, 2018, 03:42:36 PM
"Btw, I noticed you changed your name on Facebook. Would you prefer we call you Holden from here on out?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 28, 2018, 03:43:46 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40172364_1577016559095833_5434083336903458816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=6fa3a37bee0d3068519eb31b1048dab9&oe=5BF75714)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Some cisgendered people will be insulted by the question.

There isn't much you can do if people are going to get upset at polite behavior.

Would you find it polite if someone asked if you were a woman?  :huh:

I think bbs default position(don't pry) is generally best.

In what world is 'what pronouns do you prefer?' = 'are you a woman?'

Anyway, why would I be upset even if someone were to ask me if I was a woman. Do you think there is something wrong about being a woman?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 03:40:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Some cisgendered people will be insulted by the question.

There isn't much you can do if people are going to get upset at polite behavior.

I mean, that's one perspective.

But I can also tell you it's my personal practice to never, ever ask a woman if she is pregnant, no matter how far along, until they bring it up.

Question is - has my nanny "brought it up"?

Okay, so yet another unrelated question. Are you pregnant (with the risk the person is just fat) is not the same type of question.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 28, 2018, 03:46:22 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Some cisgendered people will be insulted by the question.

I can live with that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 28, 2018, 03:47:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:43:59 PM

Anyway, why would I be upset even if someone were to ask me if I was a woman. Do you think there is something wrong about being a woman?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8bTFdN57ZE

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 28, 2018, 03:49:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 28, 2018, 03:43:46 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40172364_1577016559095833_5434083336903458816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=6fa3a37bee0d3068519eb31b1048dab9&oe=5BF75714)

:lol:

Shaming with neon letters is the worst kind of shaming.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 03:50:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Some cisgendered people will be insulted by the question.

There isn't much you can do if people are going to get upset at polite behavior.

Would you find it polite if someone asked if you were a woman?  :huh:

I think bbs default position(don't pry) is generally best.

In what world is 'what pronouns do you prefer?' = 'are you a woman?'

Anyway, why would I be upset even if someone were to ask me if I was a woman. Do you think there is something wrong about being a woman?

"Are you a woman" = "you look like you might be a woman".  Some men would in fact be offended by that, even though they would agree there is nothing wrong with being a woman.

You can say that they shouldn't be offended by such a question, but I think that's more of an ideological point of view.

That being said, to the question at hand... I don't think our ex-nanny would be offended at the question of "so, are you a man"?  So perhaps that's the better way to think of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 03:50:06 PM
"Are you a woman" = "you look like you might be a woman".  Some men would in fact be offended by that, even though they would agree there is nothing wrong with being a woman.

You can say that they shouldn't be offended by such a question, but I think that's more of an ideological point of view.

I think you are full of it. Any man who is upset about that, unless it was asked in a clearly mocking way, needs step up and own his damage.

Also, as I said, the question is 'what pronouns do you want to use' which is much more polite than 'what is your gender' or 'are you gender x'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 28, 2018, 03:54:49 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 03:50:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:36:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Some cisgendered people will be insulted by the question.

There isn't much you can do if people are going to get upset at polite behavior.

Would you find it polite if someone asked if you were a woman?  :huh:

I think bbs default position(don't pry) is generally best.

In what world is 'what pronouns do you prefer?' = 'are you a woman?'

Anyway, why would I be upset even if someone were to ask me if I was a woman. Do you think there is something wrong about being a woman?

"Are you a woman" = "you look like you might be a woman".  Some men would in fact be offended by that, even though they would agree there is nothing wrong with being a woman.

You can say that they shouldn't be offended by such a question, but I think that's more of an ideological point of view.

That being said, to the question at hand... I don't think our ex-nanny would be offended at the question of "so, are you a man"?  So perhaps that's the better way to think of it.

You are missing the point, badly.  Asking "how would you like to be addressed" DOES NOT equal "are you a woman"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:54:13 PM
I think you are full of it. Any man who is upset about that, unless it was asked in a clearly mocking way, needs step up and own his damage.

Also, as I said, the question is 'what pronouns do you want to use' which is much more polite than 'what is your gender' or 'are you gender x'.

And I think you need to get your head out of the clouds, or at least certain portions of the internet, and back into the real world.

Just because you think someone shouldn't be offended by a question, doesn't mean they won't, in the real world, be offended.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 04:00:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2018, 03:54:49 PM
You are missing the point, badly.  Asking "how would you like to be addressed" DOES NOT equal "are you a woman"

Well...

"What name would you like to be addressed by"... probably not.

But outside of gender studies classes, to an awful lot of people "what pronoun would you like to be addressed by" does equal "are you male or female".

You and garbon can take the point of view that if someone is offended by the question then that is on them.  That's your prerogative.  It's not one I share.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 28, 2018, 04:03:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 04:00:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2018, 03:54:49 PM
You are missing the point, badly.  Asking "how would you like to be addressed" DOES NOT equal "are you a woman"

Well...

"What name would you like to be addressed by"... probably not.

But outside of gender studies classes, to an awful lot of people "what pronoun would you like to be addressed by" does equal "are you male or female".

You and garbon can take the point of view that if someone is offended by the question then that is on them.  That's your prerogative.  It's not one I share.


In context of what you know about that person, your concerns are entirely groundless.  This seems to be more about how uncomfortable you are than you discomfort you will cause them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 04:07:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2018, 04:03:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 04:00:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2018, 03:54:49 PM
You are missing the point, badly.  Asking "how would you like to be addressed" DOES NOT equal "are you a woman"

Well...

"What name would you like to be addressed by"... probably not.

But outside of gender studies classes, to an awful lot of people "what pronoun would you like to be addressed by" does equal "are you male or female".

You and garbon can take the point of view that if someone is offended by the question then that is on them.  That's your prerogative.  It's not one I share.


In context of what you know about that person, your concerns are entirely groundless.  This seems to be more about how uncomfortable you are than you discomfort you will cause them.

I already came to that conclusion on the last page - I seriously doubt my ex-nanny would be offended, so I probably will ask something of my ex-nanny when I see that person.  That doesn't mean there's a universal rule at play here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 28, 2018, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 04:07:26 PM
I already came to that conclusion on the last page - I seriously doubt my ex-nanny would be offended, so I probably will ask something of my ex-nanny when I see that person.  That doesn't mean there's a universal rule at play here.

Sure there is.  If you are in doubt, ask.  If you were to meet me on the street, it is probably not the question that immediately comes to mind.  But in other contexts, it might.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 28, 2018, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2018, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:54:13 PM
I think you are full of it. Any man who is upset about that, unless it was asked in a clearly mocking way, needs step up and own his damage.

Also, as I said, the question is 'what pronouns do you want to use' which is much more polite than 'what is your gender' or 'are you gender x'.

And I think you need to get your head out of the clouds, or at least certain portions of the internet, and back into the real world.

Just because you think someone shouldn't be offended by a question, doesn't mean they won't, in the real world, be offended.

Quote from: garbon on August 28, 2018, 03:36:36 PM
There isn't much you can do if people are going to get upset at polite behavior.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 04:20:24 PM
It's not a polite question, generally speaking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2018, 04:32:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6fgPX3NjyA

Work around.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 28, 2018, 04:54:02 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2018, 04:20:24 PM
It's not a polite question, generally speaking.

I don't think no one was suggesting that you should just go around asking it to everybody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 28, 2018, 04:55:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2018, 04:32:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6fgPX3NjyA

Work around.

The troglodyte comments below are great...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on August 28, 2018, 05:59:56 PM
This thread saves me from ever having to look at mass social media. :wub:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 29, 2018, 03:07:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wV01Qfq.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 29, 2018, 03:21:48 PM
Damn, that's genius.  He should have.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 29, 2018, 03:23:11 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 29, 2018, 03:21:48 PM
Damn, that's genius.  He should have.  :(

That would have been such an amazing plot twist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 29, 2018, 03:31:37 PM
APPOINT HER!

THEN LOCK HER UP!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 29, 2018, 03:33:05 PM
We are talking about Clinton, not Flynn
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 29, 2018, 04:38:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 29, 2018, 03:23:11 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 29, 2018, 03:21:48 PM
Damn, that's genius.  He should have.  :(

That would have been such an amazing plot twist.

Best not to suggest it - Trump may misunderstand the meaning of "his cabinet".  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 31, 2018, 01:50:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40400860_1618056088299483_8151842284220973056_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cf097b766ce3c804d4ed754bd9f66bd2&oe=5C35DE9D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on August 31, 2018, 03:18:13 AM
Fascistilicious!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 31, 2018, 08:18:42 AM
Meh. I am no busybody. If you are not actively hurting somebody else I am unlikely to dial 9-1-1 on you.

Anyway how am I supposed to know if somebody is here illegally?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 31, 2018, 08:50:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 31, 2018, 08:18:42 AM
Meh. I am no busybody. If you are not actively hurting somebody else I am unlikely to dial 9-1-1 on you.

Anyway how am I supposed to know if somebody is here illegally?

Nowadays estate agents in the UK are required to ask for documentation doing that check for the government. I do wonder if they bother when looking to rent out to somebody named John Smith though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 31, 2018, 12:32:52 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39385429_10156328213126885_7329492274809667584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=d553966a2a408e6376060a3ee30f8255&oe=5C0063E9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 31, 2018, 12:37:15 PM
Hey you guys control the Presidency and the Congress, and have for the majority of the past 18 years. Yet there have been no serious welfare reforms in that time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 31, 2018, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 31, 2018, 01:50:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40400860_1618056088299483_8151842284220973056_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cf097b766ce3c804d4ed754bd9f66bd2&oe=5C35DE9D)

Guess we should be reporting corrupt real estate deals, too, then.  Though not to ICE.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 31, 2018, 01:52:10 PM
Quote from: dps on August 31, 2018, 12:51:21 PM
Guess we should be reporting corrupt real estate deals, too, then.  Though not to ICE.

And people violating the emoluments clause.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 31, 2018, 02:50:46 PM
And people with their own email servers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 31, 2018, 05:33:47 PM
And people who bring unsecure phones into a SCIF (Special Compartmented Information Facility).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 03, 2018, 10:35:54 AM
QuoteThis is Carol McCain, John McCain's first wife. She was not invited to McCain's Arizona funeral either. McCain adopted his first wife Carol's two children, Douglas and Andrew, after the couple married in 1965 and a year later they had their only child together: Sidney. All of the McCain children attended his funeral service in Arizona, including Carol's children, Douglas and Andrew. The mother of three of his children, Carol, was not invited, and neither was Sarah Palin, his VP candidate in 2008.

Two years after marrying, John became a prisoner of war and was not released back to his family until 1973. In turn, Carol had to raise her sons and the couple's daughter for an estimated six years, on her own. When McCain returned home from Vietnam in 1973 after being captured and held as a prisoner of war for five years, he found out about a car accident Carol had three years earlier that left her badly injured.

He left her because she was disfigured and started dating Cindy Hensley while still married to Carol. McCain pushed for a divorce in 1980 and, that same year, McCain married Cindy, who was 17 years younger.

Cindy was born into a wealthy family - her father was one of the biggest Anheuser Busch distributors in the United States. After her father died, she inherited the company and has an estimated net worth of over $100 million.

Ronald and Nancy Reagan were both appalled at McCain for what he did to his first wife. Carol McCain was Director of the White House Visitors Office during the Reagan administration. This is the guy the media is now holding up as a saint? I think not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 03, 2018, 10:43:47 AM
Reply with a link to Trump's first wife maybe?  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 03, 2018, 07:31:18 PM
Strawman. Nobody is saying he is a saint or some sort of perfect person.

But man your family loves making bogus claims and then arguing from that basis.

And I neither know nor care if that story is true. But since it is part of an internet meme I will just assume it is entirely fabricated or told in a very misleading way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 05, 2018, 01:52:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40639399_10213300612009823_5558247834953711616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=585b4738b912733a2bd2d334ccf7bf01&oe=5C366075)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on September 05, 2018, 02:08:24 AM
Not totally useless that facebook post. I was curious why Dearborn was so important to him; that place has an interesting demography.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 05, 2018, 02:27:30 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 05, 2018, 02:08:24 AM
Not totally useless that facebook post. I was curious why Dearborn was so important to him; that place has an interesting demography.


There is a Right-wing conspiracy that Dearborn Michigan has fallen to Sharia law.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on September 05, 2018, 02:55:16 AM
Yes, there would be  :lol:

A lot of the Arab-Americans there are Lebanese Christian by background though; I'm sure thay would let us know if a Caliphate was pending.

Trying to find the religious breakdown at the moment.............it looks similar to Lebanon/Syria........... ie very complicated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 06, 2018, 08:46:48 AM
An FB friend of mine unironically posted this: https://trumpbetrayed.us/all/breaking-michael-jordan-resigns-from-the-board-at-nike-takes-air-jordans-with-him/

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 06, 2018, 10:28:40 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 06, 2018, 08:46:48 AM
An FB friend of mine unironically posted this: https://trumpbetrayed.us/all/breaking-michael-jordan-resigns-from-the-board-at-nike-takes-air-jordans-with-him/

:lol:

I am not sure what "unironically" means in this context.  Do you mean that he meant this "headline" to be taken seriously?  Lots of humorous posts aren't meant to be ironic, just funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 06, 2018, 10:41:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 03, 2018, 10:35:54 AM
QuoteThis is Carol McCain, John McCain's first wife. She was not invited to McCain's Arizona funeral either. McCain adopted his first wife Carol's two children, Douglas and Andrew, after the couple married in 1965 and a year later they had their only child together: Sidney. All of the McCain children attended his funeral service in Arizona, including Carol's children, Douglas and Andrew. The mother of three of his children, Carol, was not invited, and neither was Sarah Palin, his VP candidate in 2008.

Two years after marrying, John became a prisoner of war and was not released back to his family until 1973. In turn, Carol had to raise her sons and the couple's daughter for an estimated six years, on her own. When McCain returned home from Vietnam in 1973 after being captured and held as a prisoner of war for five years, he found out about a car accident Carol had three years earlier that left her badly injured.

He left her because she was disfigured and started dating Cindy Hensley while still married to Carol. McCain pushed for a divorce in 1980 and, that same year, McCain married Cindy, who was 17 years younger.

Cindy was born into a wealthy family - her father was one of the biggest Anheuser Busch distributors in the United States. After her father died, she inherited the company and has an estimated net worth of over $100 million.

Ronald and Nancy Reagan were both appalled at McCain for what he did to his first wife. Carol McCain was Director of the White House Visitors Office during the Reagan administration. This is the guy the media is now holding up as a saint? I think not.

Six years passed between McCain's return to the US and the breakup of his first marriage.

I don't think anyone ever held up McCain as a saint, least of all McCain himself.  He always admitted he acted badly to his first wife.

I'm also going to take a wild guess and surmise that the person who wrote this is a Trump supporter, raising some obvious questions about double standards and hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 06, 2018, 11:03:38 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 06, 2018, 10:28:40 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 06, 2018, 08:46:48 AM
An FB friend of mine unironically posted this: https://trumpbetrayed.us/all/breaking-michael-jordan-resigns-from-the-board-at-nike-takes-air-jordans-with-him/

:lol:

I am not sure what "unironically" means in this context.  Do you mean that he meant this "headline" to be taken seriously?

That's precisely what I mean.  She posts a lot of the same stuff that Syt's sisters and in-laws post-- in this case I don't think she took the time to read through the article, nor did she seem to notice the author's name is Flagg Eagleton, or that the name of the site is trumpbetrayed.us

One of her friends has since replied "Good for him!" but then someone spoiled the fun by posting the snopes refutation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 06, 2018, 11:39:50 AM
(https://mltshp-cdn.com/r/1EJQF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on September 06, 2018, 03:49:37 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmY9UxuU4AAdMfs.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 06, 2018, 04:00:52 PM
I was unaware of that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 06, 2018, 04:03:07 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 06, 2018, 04:00:52 PM
I was unaware of that.

Because that picture was not taken during the national anthem.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tim-tebow-kneel-anthem/

Snopes rates this meme as false.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 06, 2018, 06:10:14 PM
I think anybody who saw that he was offered three NFL contracts knew it was false.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2018, 11:30:16 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39568639_246404529342467_2112448676348559360_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=dec6e70957bdd6f3524442680ba39bd7&oe=5C2C510E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 08, 2018, 12:59:45 PM
So Mexican-American or Nigerian-American would be fine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 08, 2018, 02:04:32 PM
I don't think I have ever heard anybody call themselves 'Hispanic-American' in my entire life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 08, 2018, 02:31:43 PM
I'll bet they've heard people describe themselves as Italian-American, or Polish-American, or what not.  I'm sure Syt's sisters have called themselves German-Americans at some point.

Myself, I'm proudly Ukrainian-Canadian. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 08, 2018, 02:39:20 PM
Let's not forget about the WASPs
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 08, 2018, 02:45:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 08, 2018, 02:31:43 PM
I'll bet they've heard people describe themselves as Italian-American, or Polish-American, or what not.  I'm sure Syt's sisters have called themselves German-Americans at some point.

Myself, I'm proudly Ukrainian-Canadian. :thumbsup:

I know I've definitely referred to myself as Irish-American at times.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 08, 2018, 03:34:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 08, 2018, 02:39:20 PM
Let's not forget about the WASPs

I don't think that is often used as a positive self-identifier.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 08, 2018, 05:01:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 08, 2018, 03:34:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 08, 2018, 02:39:20 PM
Let's not forget about the WASPs

I don't think that is often used as a positive self-identifier.

Really, because there is a long history of WASPs preferring WASPs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 08, 2018, 11:21:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 08, 2018, 05:01:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 08, 2018, 03:34:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 08, 2018, 02:39:20 PM
Let's not forget about the WASPs

I don't think that is often used as a positive self-identifier.

Really, because there is a long history of WASPs preferring WASPs.

It is a bit like calling yourself the 'establishment'. It is a bit of a pejorative term to apply to oneself un-ironically.

But hey tell me about this long history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 09, 2018, 11:05:10 AM
Oh, so you want the long history?  Okay.


[1] This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
[3] And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
[4] And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
[5] And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
[6] And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
[7] And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
[8] And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
[9] And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
[10] And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
[11] And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
[12] And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:
[13] And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
[14] And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
[15] And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
[16] And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
[17] And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
[18] And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
[19] And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
[20] And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
[21] And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
[22] And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
[23] And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
[24] And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
[25] And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
[26] And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
[27] And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
[28] And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
[29] And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
[30] And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
[31] And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
[32] And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

And so on...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 09, 2018, 12:57:50 PM
None of those people self identify as WASPs :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 09, 2018, 03:37:24 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41430459_10156841434519548_449706079736037376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=9e2dd34a10fa92bdcb98d53c34d9c3a3&oe=5C2B9071)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 09, 2018, 06:17:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 08, 2018, 11:21:27 PM
But hey tell me about this long history.

You're trolling, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 09, 2018, 11:52:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 09, 2018, 06:17:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 08, 2018, 11:21:27 PM
But hey tell me about this long history.

You're trolling, right?

No. Please tell me of the long history of people referring to themselves as WASPs which, again, is a bit of a pejorative term. I mean sure sometimes they do as a bit of a self-effacing gag, but it is not some strong identity. They would more likely to go with English or Scottish or something.

WTF would you think I was trolling? What have I said that would have you ask me this? It is really weird.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 09, 2018, 11:56:18 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 09, 2018, 03:37:24 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41430459_10156841434519548_449706079736037376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=9e2dd34a10fa92bdcb98d53c34d9c3a3&oe=5C2B9071)

What is the problem being addressed here? Because if it is runaway deficits Reagan pretty much created that problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 09, 2018, 11:59:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2018, 11:52:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 09, 2018, 06:17:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 08, 2018, 11:21:27 PM
But hey tell me about this long history.

You're trolling, right?

No. Please tell me of the long history of people referring to themselves as WASPs which, again, is a bit of a pejorative term. I mean sure sometimes they do as a bit of a self-effacing gag, but it is not some strong identity. They would more likely to go with English or Scottish or something.

WTF would you think I was trolling? What have I said that would have you ask me this? It is really weird.

I agree that it has pejorative connotations nowadays, but I believe that wasn't always the case.  I think people did refer to themselves as WASPs back before WWII, though they more likely used the long form of "white Anglo-Saxon Protestants" rather than the acronym.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 10, 2018, 06:27:41 AM
Quote from: dps on September 09, 2018, 11:59:59 PM
I agree that it has pejorative connotations nowadays, but I believe that wasn't always the case.  I think people did refer to themselves as WASPs back before WWII, though they more likely used the long form of "white Anglo-Saxon Protestants" rather than the acronym.

The acronym didn't exist until the 50s so you are safe in arguing that it was "more likely" that people didn't use it before WW2. 

But I'd want to see evidence that people used even the long form of "white Anglo-Saxon Protestants" to commonly describe themselves before WW2.  I don't recall even running across the term "Anglo-Saxon" as a self-identifying word; "English" is a lot shorter and more widely understood.  The significant numbers of Ulster and Scottish descendants among the elite of New England would likewise argue against "Anglo-Saxon" as an identifier.  I could be wrong, but I'd need evidence that such a bizarre moniker was ever used for self-identification.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 10, 2018, 09:58:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 10, 2018, 06:27:41 AM
The acronym didn't exist until the 50s

That's a very specific bit of information.  Where did you ever heard about the origin of the WASP acronym?

Quick googling has wiki saying just that, but it actually has a note "needs citation".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
https://wordhistories.net/2018/02/02/wasp-american-sociology/

This also suggests 50s but is a blog post so...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 10, 2018, 10:29:04 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 09, 2018, 11:52:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 09, 2018, 06:17:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 08, 2018, 11:21:27 PM
But hey tell me about this long history.

You're trolling, right?

No. Please tell me of the long history of people referring to themselves as WASPs which, again, is a bit of a pejorative term. I mean sure sometimes they do as a bit of a self-effacing gag, but it is not some strong identity. They would more likely to go with English or Scottish or something.

WTF would you think I was trolling? What have I said that would have you ask me this? It is really weird.

I said there is a long history of WASPs preferring WASPs, it would be helpful if you read what I post rather than responding to something I did not post.

It is indeed wierd that anyone would deny that WASPs have historically shown preferential treatment to WASPs.   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2018, 11:23:29 AM
Wow, so he misunderstood the verb you had used. Why did that need you to then edit your post and add more commentary? :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 10, 2018, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2018, 11:23:29 AM
Wow, so he misunderstood the verb you had used. Why did that need you to then edit your post and add more commentary? :wacko:

Because this happens so often with him I have lost count.

I think I will stop bothering with this place
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2018, 11:52:53 AM
How would we survive?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on September 10, 2018, 11:54:54 AM
 ^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 10, 2018, 12:05:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 10, 2018, 10:29:04 AM
I said there is a long history of WASPs preferring WASPs, it would be helpful if you read what I post rather than responding to something I did not post.

Maybe if you wrote more clearly, you wouldn't create so much confusion.  "WASPs preferring WASPs" implies that they preferred the acronym "WASPs"

QuoteIt is indeed wierd that anyone would deny that WASPs have historically shown preferential treatment to WASPs.

It is indeed weird that you didn't say this to begin with.  Yes, people historically have preferred people like themselves.  That's certainly not a distinction that helps anyone define a "WASP."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2018, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 10, 2018, 12:05:38 PM
"WASPs preferring WASPs" implies that they preferred the acronym "WASPs"

Yes. This. I thought my interpretation was clear from how I responded, I apologize if it was not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2018, 12:32:13 PM
More importantly, how many posters will Valmy drive away?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 10, 2018, 12:37:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2018, 11:52:53 AM
How would we survive?

I am sure this will be a better place.

Out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 10, 2018, 12:39:48 PM
:(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2018, 12:41:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 10, 2018, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2018, 11:23:29 AM
Wow, so he misunderstood the verb you had used. Why did that need you to then edit your post and add more commentary? :wacko:

Because this happens so often with him I have lost count.

Because you plunged ahead instead of clarifying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2018, 12:51:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 10, 2018, 12:37:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2018, 11:52:53 AM
How would we survive?

I am sure this will be a better place.

Out.

Jesus Christ.

Well fuck me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2018, 12:52:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 10, 2018, 12:39:48 PM
:(

I apologize man. I am clearly too stupid and idiotic to speak to the great CC.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 10, 2018, 01:07:57 PM
Dang.  Bye CC :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 10, 2018, 01:21:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 10, 2018, 12:37:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2018, 11:52:53 AM
How would we survive?

I am sure this will be a better place.

Out.


You're letting Grumbler win.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 10, 2018, 01:26:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2018, 12:52:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 10, 2018, 12:39:48 PM
:(

I apologize man. I am clearly too stupid and idiotic to speak to the great CC.

No, that was aimed at his decision, not how you talked to him. No need to apologize. :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 10, 2018, 01:41:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2018, 12:51:51 PM
Jesus Christ.

Well fuck me.

No reason for you to feel bad.  When a Canuck is bound and determined to feel butthurt, then he'll feel butthurt no matter what you say.

If CC comes back, then fine.  If he's gone, then fine.  He was at best a neutral contributor in terms of signal to noise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on September 10, 2018, 02:06:46 PM
 :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2018, 05:19:33 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 10, 2018, 01:41:16 PM
No reason for you to feel bad.  When a Canuck is bound and determined to feel butthurt, then he'll feel butthurt no matter what you say.

If CC comes back, then fine.  If he's gone, then fine.

This I mean it is never great for us to lose anyone but hey, if they aren't in the headspace to put up with us knuckleheads some time away is probably a good idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 10, 2018, 05:25:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2018, 05:19:33 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 10, 2018, 01:41:16 PM
No reason for you to feel bad.  When a Canuck is bound and determined to feel butthurt, then he'll feel butthurt no matter what you say.

If CC comes back, then fine.  If he's gone, then fine.

This I mean it is never great for us to lose anyone but hey, if they aren't in the headspace to put up with us knuckleheads some time away is probably a good idea.

You were not being a "knucklehead", you were being a little shit. There's a distinction there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2018, 05:47:04 PM
Please. He was being asinine and all pouty and lashing out at Valmy about a misunderstanding. There was no reason for him to cry that he was going to take his ball home and I reacted accordingly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 10, 2018, 05:51:30 PM
So let me see if I got this right...

- Languish is on one of it's usual downward spirals/tangents about the origin of "WASP".
- Valmy makes a sarcastic comment to Raz.
- CC calls it trolling.
- Raz answers the sarcastic question with a good deadpan riposte.
- Valmy is offended his sarcasm is referred to as "trolling".
- Usual Languish personal indignation ensues.

I think we've been down these kind of roads before.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 10, 2018, 05:55:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2018, 05:47:04 PM
Please. He was being asinine and all pouty and lashing out at Valmy about a misunderstanding. There was no reason for him to cry that he was going to take his ball home and I reacted accordingly.

You reacted like you usually do - stepping into a misunderstanding and escalating it by being a little shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2018, 05:59:49 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 10, 2018, 05:55:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2018, 05:47:04 PM
Please. He was being asinine and all pouty and lashing out at Valmy about a misunderstanding. There was no reason for him to cry that he was going to take his ball home and I reacted accordingly.

You reacted like you usually do - stepping into a misunderstanding and escalating it by being a little shit.

That seems highly unlikely. My commentary is not what caused that drama queen to flame out.

After all, he's the one who clarified his issue was that Valmy supposedly creates misunderstandings all the time.

Also, it is true, I've no tolerance for dramatics when someone is choosing to exit. Slink off with some quiet dignity, not some sob story where we are supposed to beg for you to stay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 10, 2018, 06:04:27 PM
I'm with both Jacob and garbon.  Don't threaten to quit, that's childish.  But if someone threatens to quit, don't be a giant douchebag and basically dare someone to follow through with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2018, 06:08:52 PM
I kinda regret telling lettow to quit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 10, 2018, 06:21:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2018, 05:59:49 PMThat seems highly unlikely. My commentary is not what caused that drama queen to flame out.

I didn't say your shitty snide intervention caused anything, I said it escalated it.

QuoteAfter all, he's the one who clarified his issue was that Valmy supposedly creates misunderstandings all the time.

Valmy does do that, and it's incredibly tedious. You wouldn't notice, of course, because you rarely post anything of substance so Valmy rarely replies to you.

And you stepped into an exchange about something being tedious due to a misunderstanding and made it even more tedious by being a snide condescending shit.

QuoteAlso, it is true, I've no tolerance for dramatics when someone is choosing to exit. Slink off with some quiet dignity, not some sob story where we are supposed to beg for you to stay.

How about you shut your mouth instead of being a snide shit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2018, 06:52:55 PM
I also rarely post anything of substance yet Valmy replies to me all the time.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 10, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
What I miss?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2018, 09:40:47 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 10, 2018, 05:51:30 PM
So let me see if I got this right...

- Languish is on one of it's usual downward spirals/tangents about the origin of "WASP".
- Valmy makes a sarcastic comment to Raz.
- CC calls it trolling.
- Raz answers the sarcastic question with a good deadpan riposte.
- Valmy is offended his sarcasm is referred to as "trolling".
- Usual Languish personal indignation ensues.

I think we've been down these kind of roads before.  :D

First: Raz was joking and I was joking back, I was not 'trolling' him. Trolling is trying to piss somebody off, trying to get a rise out of them, not making a joke in good fun.

Secondly CC was not responding to my response to Raz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2018, 09:42:07 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 10, 2018, 06:21:24 PM
Valmy does do that, and it's incredibly tedious.

No I don't and fuck you for this characterization. You may find me a fucking idiot but I assure you I come by it honestly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2018, 09:53:24 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2018, 06:52:55 PM
I also rarely post anything of substance yet Valmy replies to me all the time.  :sleep:

I like you Eddie. And you usually post stuff that is obnoxious enough for me to respond.

I usually agree with garbon so I usually don't need to respond.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 10, 2018, 10:20:18 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 10, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
What I miss?

Gonorrhea called Sobel a Jew. Liebgott took offense 'cause he's a Jew, too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2018, 11:06:06 PM
Maybe you should leave the nicknames to Yi.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2018, 11:34:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2018, 11:06:06 PM
Maybe you should leave the nicknames to Yi.  :hmm:

Band of Brothers.  :secret:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 11, 2018, 12:15:05 AM
Quote from: derspiess on September 10, 2018, 10:20:18 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 10, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
What I miss?

Gonorrhea called Sobel a Jew. Liebgott took offense 'cause he's a Jew, too.

I thought it was 'cause they're both Canadian.  But maybe being Canadian and Jewish has nothing to do with it;  maybe they both just have sticks up their asses.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 11, 2018, 01:25:27 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2018, 09:40:47 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 10, 2018, 05:51:30 PM
So let me see if I got this right...

- Languish is on one of it's usual downward spirals/tangents about the origin of "WASP".
- Valmy makes a sarcastic comment to Raz.
- CC calls it trolling.
- Raz answers the sarcastic question with a good deadpan riposte.
- Valmy is offended his sarcasm is referred to as "trolling".
- Usual Languish personal indignation ensues.

I think we've been down these kind of roads before.  :D

First: Raz was joking and I was joking back, I was not 'trolling' him. Trolling is trying to piss somebody off, trying to get a rise out of them, not making a joke in good fun.

Secondly CC was not responding to my response to Raz.
can we all get along? Can we, can we get along? Can we stop making it horrible for the older people and the kids? ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 11, 2018, 01:57:33 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 10, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
What I miss?

Jacob excited about the word shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 11, 2018, 02:35:11 AM
We're all "older people".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 11, 2018, 03:33:39 AM
Drama is my middle name.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 11, 2018, 05:59:16 AM
(https://i0.wp.com/gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/anchorman-i-dont-know-what.gif?ssl=1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 11, 2018, 06:09:09 AM
Quote from: Jacob on September 10, 2018, 05:55:31 PM
You reacted like you usually do - stepping into a misunderstanding and escalating it by being a little shit.

:lol:  That comment isn't escalating things... no, sir, not at all!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on September 11, 2018, 07:28:10 AM
At least we're staying on topic for once.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 11, 2018, 07:28:30 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 11, 2018, 01:57:33 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 10, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
What I miss?

Jacob excited about the word shit.
And you being excited by being one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 11, 2018, 07:47:20 AM
Quote from: Maladict on September 11, 2018, 07:28:10 AM
At least we're staying on topic for once.

The wrong topic. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 11, 2018, 07:47:38 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 11, 2018, 07:28:30 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 11, 2018, 01:57:33 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on September 10, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
What I miss?

Jacob excited about the word shit.
And you being excited by being one.

I don't feel particularly excited now nor did I yesterday.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 11, 2018, 07:49:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 11, 2018, 07:47:38 AM
I don't feel particularly excited now nor did I yesterday.
I guess I'm wrong about it then, but surely you can see how one can make that error?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 11, 2018, 08:29:15 AM
Dunno why DG and Jacob are so bent out of shape by Garbon's comment to CC; responding with what amounts to a yawn to an emo post about quitting the forum is about the Most Languish Thing ever.

The argument that Valmy had anything to do with this is absurd.  I'm trying hard to think of one time I have noticed him trolling, and coming up blank. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 11, 2018, 10:49:08 AM
Fuck, I don't know what any of this is about.  Hell, I didn't even remember making a clever joke until I read people refer to it.  I don't really have people who annoy me much on this board except Grumbler and Berkut, and that's just because they ignore me.  If they stopped everything would be right as rain
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 11, 2018, 02:30:06 PM
http://www.richardbrookhiser.com/books/way-of-the-wasp/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 11, 2018, 10:21:38 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Wasp-Eric-Frank-Russell/dp/0575070951 (https://www.amazon.com/Wasp-Eric-Frank-Russell/dp/0575070951)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 13, 2018, 12:01:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41594652_1743531562442057_246178789443239936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=037f6272f0fe31858ad5e1e47fb19190&oe=5C3A94D8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 13, 2018, 04:28:48 PM
While the Constitution has many provisions protecting the right of U.S. citizens to vote (and defining what is a U.S. citizen); I don't think it ever states anywhere that non-citizens cannot vote.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 13, 2018, 04:33:46 PM
That is a rather bizarrely draconian and non-Constitutional solution to a non-problem I have to admit.

Granted I have no idea how California is allowing non-citizens to vote on in what elections, but since this was posted by Syt's relatives I assume this is either a lie or true but is being misrepresented in some way. They are compulsively posting complete fabrications and lies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 13, 2018, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2018, 04:33:46 PM
That is a rather bizarrely draconian and non-Constitutional solution to a non-problem I have to admit.

Granted I have no idea how California is allowing non-citizens to vote on in what elections, but since this was posted by Syt's relatives I assume this is either a lie or true but is being misrepresented in some way. They are compulsively posting complete fabrications and lies.


I seem to recall Germans having similar draconian solutions to non-problems in the past.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 13, 2018, 04:46:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2018, 04:33:46 PM
That is a rather bizarrely draconian and non-Constitutional solution to a non-problem I have to admit.

Granted I have no idea how California is allowing non-citizens to vote on in what elections, but since this was posted by Syt's relatives I assume this is either a lie or true but is being misrepresented in some way. They are compulsively posting complete fabrications and lies.

I know we allow Permanent residents (but non-citizens) to vote in municipal elections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 13, 2018, 04:55:50 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 13, 2018, 04:46:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 13, 2018, 04:33:46 PM
That is a rather bizarrely draconian and non-Constitutional solution to a non-problem I have to admit.

Granted I have no idea how California is allowing non-citizens to vote on in what elections, but since this was posted by Syt's relatives I assume this is either a lie or true but is being misrepresented in some way. They are compulsively posting complete fabrications and lies.

I know we allow Permanent residents (but non-citizens) to vote in municipal elections.

Euros have already taken the "balls of light" role.

But "balls of maple syrup" is still available.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 13, 2018, 04:56:43 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 13, 2018, 04:55:50 PM

Euros have already taken the "balls of light" role.

But "balls of maple syrup" is still available.

"Balls of maple sugar" makes more sense ...  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 13, 2018, 07:20:06 PM
Nah, then people say "wtf is maple sugar?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 13, 2018, 07:23:52 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 13, 2018, 04:28:48 PM
While the Constitution has many provisions protecting the right of U.S. citizens to vote (and defining what is a U.S. citizen); I don't think it ever states anywhere that non-citizens cannot vote.

Correct.  There are provisions requiring states to not restrict the right to vote based on certain things, but beyond those provisions, states can set their criteria for who can vote however they wish, and in the past some states did allow non-citizens to vote.  I don't know if it's true that California law currently allows non-citizens to vote, but I suspect it doesn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 13, 2018, 07:37:39 PM
Quote from: dps on September 13, 2018, 07:23:52 PM
in the past some states did allow non-citizens to vote.

For federal elections?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 13, 2018, 08:55:52 PM
It's not true, but accuracy is clearly not a premium for someone who cites refusal to "Cooperate" with a commission that was disbanded months ago as an excuse to violate the Constitution.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 13, 2018, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 13, 2018, 07:37:39 PM
Quote from: dps on September 13, 2018, 07:23:52 PM
in the past some states did allow non-citizens to vote.

For federal elections?



According to Wikipedia, Federal law currently prohibits that.  This wasn't always the case, but I'm not sure if any states ever allowed non-citizens to vote in Federal elections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 13, 2018, 09:58:47 PM
For the record, according to the California state constitution:

QuoteCALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION - CONS

ARTICLE II VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL [SECTION 1 - SEC. 20]  ( Heading of Article 2 amended June 8, 1976, by Prop. 14. Res.Ch. 5, 1976. )

SECTION 1.  All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for their protection, security, and benefit, and they have the right to alter or reform it when the public good may require.
(Sec. 1 renumbered from Sec. 26 (of Art. 1) on June 8, 1976, by Prop. 14. Res.Ch. 5, 1976.)

SEC. 2.  A United States citizen 18 years of age and resident in this State may vote.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 13, 2018, 10:13:19 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 13, 2018, 09:58:47 PM
For the record, according to the California state constitution:

QuoteCALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION - CONS

ARTICLE II VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL [SECTION 1 - SEC. 20]  ( Heading of Article 2 amended June 8, 1976, by Prop. 14. Res.Ch. 5, 1976. )

SECTION 1.  All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for their protection, security, and benefit, and they have the right to alter or reform it when the public good may require.
(Sec. 1 renumbered from Sec. 26 (of Art. 1) on June 8, 1976, by Prop. 14. Res.Ch. 5, 1976.)

SEC. 2.  A United States citizen 18 years of age and resident in this State may vote.

Well, technically, that doesn't mean that non-citizens can't vote, but I suspect that what's going on with the thing about California registering non-citizens is that someone doesn't think that California is checking carefully enough that non-citizens aren't improperly being registered.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 14, 2018, 12:20:01 AM
I think what happened (this came up before) is that California allowed non-citizens to register for elections of school boards or something like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 14, 2018, 12:29:58 AM
A quick look on Google suggests that only San Francisco did that.  That should not surprise anyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 14, 2018, 12:45:33 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 14, 2018, 12:29:58 AM
A quick look on Google suggests that only San Francisco did that.  That should not surprise anyone.

No not actually a misrepresentation but a total lie.

Typical internet meme.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2018, 11:47:20 AM
QuoteLiz DeVolder
December 27, 2017
KEEP PASSING THIS AROUND UNTIL
EVERY ONE HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO READ IT...

THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THE
GOVERNMENT'S CALCULATION OF AVAILABLE SOCIAL SECURITY IS THEY FORGOT TO FIGURE IN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY EVER COLLECTED A SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK!!!

WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?

Remember, not only did you and I contribute to Social Security but your employer did, too. It totaled 15% of your income before taxes.

If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that's close to$220,500.
Read that again.

Did you see where the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money you and your employer put in a Government bank to ensure you and me that we would have a retirement check from the money we put in, not the Government.

Now they are calling the money we put in an entitlement when we reach the age to take it back.

If you calculate the future invested value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% interest (less than what the Government pays on the money that it borrows).

After 49 years of working you'd have$892,919.98.

If you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years (until you're 95 if you retire at age 65) and that's with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit!

If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you'd have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month.

THE FOLKS IN WASHINGTON HAVE PULLED OFF A BIGGER PONZI SCHEME THAN BERNIE MADOFF EVER DID.

Entitlement my foot; I paid cash for my social security insurance!

Just because they borrowed the money for another government spending, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!

Remember the benefits for members of Congress?

+ free healthcare,
+ outrageous retirement packages,
+ 67 paid holidays,
+ three weeks paid vacation,
+ unlimited paid sick days.

Now that's welfare, and they have the nerve to call my social security retirement payments entitlements?

They call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now, when it's time for us to collect, the government is running out of money.

Why did the government borrow from it in the first place? It was supposed to be in a locked box, not part of the general fund.

Sad isn't it?
99% of people won't have the guts to forward this.
I'm in the 1%

I JUST DID!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 17, 2018, 11:52:35 AM
Sorry, tax cuts were more important than your pension.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 17, 2018, 11:57:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2018, 11:47:20 AM
QuoteIt was supposed to be in a locked box

Well...the guy who loved lock boxes lost in 2000.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 17, 2018, 12:05:17 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2018, 11:47:20 AM
QuoteLiz DeVolder
December 27, 2017
I JUST LEARNED HOW SOCIAL SECURITY WORKS!! LOOK AT ME!!

Fixed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 17, 2018, 12:42:35 PM
Why is there such a misunderstanding on how Social Security works.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on September 18, 2018, 05:53:02 PM
GUYS PASS THIS AROUND AND TELL YOUR FRIENDS

IM 45 YEARS OLD AND STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL BTW
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 18, 2018, 06:19:50 PM
Here's a hint, Liz--Social Security benefits are called an entitlement because you're entitled to them when you retire.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2018, 08:02:32 PM
So not every chick is good at English and bad at math.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 19, 2018, 02:28:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41991380_468056577047077_711261788401827840_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=4ec29f93f3b5a3cdb5f072f7a9841753&oe=5C1D8ABB)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41991821_1596793387094122_3539162633699590144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=d29f3c2f1e486ba6bf59202fd02bfc50&oe=5C237170)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 19, 2018, 04:23:52 AM
It looks like in every country, if you are a patriot, you don't learn how to write your native language.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 19, 2018, 06:06:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 19, 2018, 04:23:52 AM
It looks like in every country, if you are a patriot, you don't learn how to write your native language.
How do you know how good their Russian is?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 19, 2018, 06:53:50 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 19, 2018, 06:06:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 19, 2018, 04:23:52 AM
It looks like in every country, if you are a patriot, you don't learn how to write your native language.
How do you know how good their Russian is?  :huh:

:rolleyes: Don't delude yourself. Some of the inane shit on the net comes from Russian trolls for sure, but the vast majority is conceived by native retards.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 19, 2018, 07:02:09 AM
Another possibility is the content is predominately created by the Russians and then reposted by willing dupes like Syt's relatives.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 19, 2018, 07:12:56 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 19, 2018, 06:53:50 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 19, 2018, 06:06:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 19, 2018, 04:23:52 AM
It looks like in every country, if you are a patriot, you don't learn how to write your native language.
How do you know how good their Russian is?  :huh:

:rolleyes: Don't delude yourself. Some of the inane shit on the net comes from Russian trolls for sure, but the vast majority is conceived by native retards.
It was partly a joke.  We in US definitely had a domestic industry dedicated to turning citizens into unthinking vegetable, but I do think that we're underestimating how much influence Russians had in effectively priming the pump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 19, 2018, 07:43:31 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 19, 2018, 02:28:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41991380_468056577047077_711261788401827840_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=4ec29f93f3b5a3cdb5f072f7a9841753&oe=5C1D8ABB)

I feel so privileged to have no idea who this checkmarked guy is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 19, 2018, 07:50:40 AM
Apparently who used to work at Infowars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 19, 2018, 08:05:16 AM
I feel even more privileged not to know what the checkmark means.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 21, 2018, 08:28:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42203265_1841994162545181_8064732552092450816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=adee752e9d96ca26041a1c533ef29254&oe=5C17FAA2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
I have, it didn't help. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 21, 2018, 08:43:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
I have, it didn't help. :(

Have you ever dated a cop?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 21, 2018, 08:44:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
I have, it didn't help. :(

You broke God's Law.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:52:45 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 21, 2018, 08:43:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
I have, it didn't help. :(

Have you ever dated a cop?

No, I have not. Closest is this guy I've been seeing who is HR for cops.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:53:19 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 21, 2018, 08:44:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
I have, it didn't help. :(

You broke God's Law.

What does that have to do with DWB?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 21, 2018, 08:55:49 AM
My family in US is generally under the impression that if a cop treats you badly or shoots you, it's your fault. Cops can't do no wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 21, 2018, 09:23:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 21, 2018, 08:28:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42203265_1841994162545181_8064732552092450816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=adee752e9d96ca26041a1c533ef29254&oe=5C17FAA2)

Um the police do not determine if you are guilty of a crime. The legal system, how does it work?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 21, 2018, 09:48:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:53:19 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 21, 2018, 08:44:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
I have, it didn't help. :(

You broke God's Law.

What does that have to do with DWB?

Driving while black? /proud of myself  :showoff:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 21, 2018, 10:09:00 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 21, 2018, 10:27:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 10:09:00 AM
Yes

Well next time be wiser about what skin colour you come to this world with! #notpolicefault
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 21, 2018, 11:02:40 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 21, 2018, 10:27:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 10:09:00 AM
Yes

Well next time be wiser about what skin colour you come to this world with! #notpolicefault

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDnSZAAlm6Y
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 21, 2018, 11:10:13 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 21, 2018, 10:27:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 10:09:00 AM
Yes

Well next time be wiser about what skin colour you come to this world with! #notpolicefault

My mother told me once it was a consideration when she was thinking of having kids with my father - bringing kids into the world with a strike against them from birth. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 21, 2018, 11:20:49 AM
 :(

Well I am sure she is glad she made the right choice  :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
It's a strike in America, not everywhere.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 21, 2018, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
It's a strike in America, not everywhere.

Not a boon in Britain.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 21, 2018, 11:51:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
It's a strike in America, not everywhere.

Not a boon in Britain.

With the Brexit stuff bringing the nastier opinions of the locals out in the open, I sure am happy I can hide my immigrant status as long as I keep my mouth shut.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 12:07:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
It's a strike in America, not everywhere.

Not a boon in Britain.

There is a 3rd state.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 21, 2018, 12:21:12 PM
It isn't a neutral quality in Britain either.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 21, 2018, 12:31:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 21, 2018, 11:51:34 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
It's a strike in America, not everywhere.

Not a boon in Britain.

With the Brexit stuff bringing the nastier opinions of the locals out in the open, I sure am happy I can hide my immigrant status as long as I keep my mouth shut.

Catch-22. How do you lose your accent without practice?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 21, 2018, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
It's a strike in America, not everywhere.

I've been invited to skip security checks in India and Africa (Kenya and Ethiopia come to mind) because I'm white.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 01:00:46 PM
You are truly a citizen of the world.

#humblebrag
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 21, 2018, 01:38:10 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 21, 2018, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
It's a strike in America, not everywhere.

I've been invited to skip security checks in India and Africa (Kenya and Ethiopia come to mind) because I'm white.

Did you: check your privilege?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 21, 2018, 01:46:49 PM
I've mentioned before being on a flight from Brazil to Miami, flight mostly full of Brazilians.  There's a long line for customs for visitors, a very short line for US citizens.  We get asked if we're American - we respond that we're Canadians.  We are told to go to the US line anyways.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 21, 2018, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 01:00:46 PM
You are truly a citizen of the world.

#humblebrag

Your post is yet another example of white privledge. A white guy goes to a place like India and that is considered to show class. An actual Indian is considered not worthy of being here (by a lot of people at least).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 22, 2018, 06:21:24 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 21, 2018, 08:44:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 21, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
I have, it didn't help. :(

You broke Godwin's Law.
FTFY
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 23, 2018, 03:59:37 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 21, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
It's a strike in America, not everywhere.


Where is being a Black American better than being a White American?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 23, 2018, 04:05:52 PM
Compton.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 23, 2018, 04:19:54 PM
Scattering or location?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 23, 2018, 06:21:48 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 23, 2018, 04:05:52 PM
Compton.

You're an idiot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 25, 2018, 12:57:49 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42309043_329349351149541_9089248759480582144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&oh=21b8dd6de3c71ed5bd1baf6376eef1e6&oe=5C1ECF13)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 25, 2018, 06:21:24 AM
And they split that poor donkey in half.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2018, 08:37:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 25, 2018, 12:57:49 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42309043_329349351149541_9089248759480582144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&oh=21b8dd6de3c71ed5bd1baf6376eef1e6&oe=5C1ECF13)

But besides that we are lovely people -_-

I don't get how the Republicans do not also do all of those things. Well ok except for advocating for abortion, but I don't think anybody does that...no more than we are pro-alcoholism simply because we are not in favor of prohibition. They run most of the country on every level of government. Somehow even when they have absolute control all the problems are our fault.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2018, 11:44:05 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 25, 2018, 06:21:24 AM
And they split that poor donkey in half.  :(

...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 25, 2018, 12:08:02 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 25, 2018, 11:44:05 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 25, 2018, 06:21:24 AM
And they split that poor donkey in half.  :(

...

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 27, 2018, 05:28:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42525488_951758485164158_8136977514078666752_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=2ed2bb5fc95d110697267b280718d03f&oe=5C611760)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42494555_1926285440787519_4090341112554717184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&oh=7b4e64d073fd55c59641a720c9b09f37&oe=5C567296)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41961416_1846100172177100_8580660318793891840_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&oh=a76af4343cdfd4a72a91616e54014553&oe=5C5F1B50)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42349693_1532317203581749_3909845283739009024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&oh=b829a1f02ffbaa869260939188cb035e&oe=5C189259)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 27, 2018, 06:52:39 AM
So much stupid. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on September 27, 2018, 07:07:59 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2018, 06:52:39 AM
So much stupid. :bleeding:

Yesterday's news had a state department official spinning Trumps UN performance, what took the biscuit was her explaining why the laughter at his statement wasn't actually laughter, but a sign of approval (some bullshit along those lines)  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 27, 2018, 07:12:37 AM
That's what Trump said in his press conference.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 27, 2018, 07:21:59 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/26/donald-trump-united-nations-laughter-powerful-weapon
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on September 27, 2018, 07:54:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 27, 2018, 07:12:37 AM
That's what Trump said in his press conference.

I didn't see that, I can only take So much Trump a day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2018, 01:59:24 AM
https://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/poll/demand-answers/?source=62&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=ads&utm_campaign=conversion&utm_term=da1

QuoteHillary Clinton is not above the law.

But Hillary Clinton has a demonstrated record of showing contempt for the rule of law.

She refused to tell the truth about the deadly Benghazi terrorist attack that took place on her watch as Secretary of State
She violated the law and avoided accountability by using secret email accounts as Secretary of State
She abused her public office to funnel money to personal accounts – much of which is now sloshing around her vanity "charity" that could be renamed "The Clinton Corruption Foundation."
This is all unacceptable.

In this country our leaders are bound by the rule of law. She must be held accountable for her actions.

Sign the petition now to demand that Hillary Clinton answer for her corruption!

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 29, 2018, 02:20:40 AM
Can't they move on already? :huh:

Actually, maybe they were triggered by seeing her on Murphy Brown.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2018, 02:23:18 AM
It's very telling that it's only corruption if the other side does it. E.g. GWB's administration used private email servers (with lots of emails from the run up to the invasion of Iraq that were subpoenaed "lost"), so does the Trump administration, and Trump is still using his unsecured cell (unless that's changed in the meantime).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 29, 2018, 02:38:55 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 29, 2018, 02:23:18 AM
It's very telling that it's only corruption if the other side does it. E.g. GWB's administration used private email servers (with lots of emails from the run up to the invasion of Iraq that were subpoenaed "lost"), so does the Trump administration, and Trump is still using his unsecured cell (unless that's changed in the meantime).

Trump should be in a secure cell.  Probably a padded one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on September 29, 2018, 02:52:06 AM
Quote from: dps on September 29, 2018, 02:38:55 AM
Trump should be in a secure cell.  Probably a padded one.
I would love to see him stuck in Sisyphean hell where he is dragging bags of ill gotten gains up a hill only to have all of the money fall out by the time he reaches his destination and as such have to regather it and begin again.  That would be glorious. :)

edit:  Oh, and images of Obama and Hillary try to offer a way out but he never follows the advice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 30, 2018, 01:38:29 AM
QuoteIf Kavanaugh Does Not Get Confirmed, Trump Should Make Him Attorney General And Unleash Him On The Swamp!!!
#MAGA
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 30, 2018, 01:44:45 AM
That's silly. AG also requires Senate confirmation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 30, 2018, 05:33:30 AM
I suppose that in theory, someone could be considered qualified to be Attorney General but not qualified to sit on the Supreme Court.  Well, forget theory, look at practice.  Anybody think that Bobby Kennedy would have been confirmed as a Supreme Court Justice if JFK had nominated him for that position instead of picking him as his AG?  And we've had other AG who wouldn't have ever been considered for the Court, much less nominated or confirmed.  But that's a bit besides the point, because the question with Kavanaugh isn't his formal qualifications.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 01, 2018, 12:50:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42773765_2045120568859826_4940402057686286336_n.png?_nc_cat=1&oh=66334fa41b5b07526ad6ba93db6bc4e0&oe=5C54EBD5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 01, 2018, 06:47:15 AM
I wonder if they really don't understand how people get elected and the scrutiny candidates go through during their nominations and general elections.



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 10:05:39 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 30, 2018, 01:44:45 AM
That's silly. AG also requires Senate confirmation.

Does OG require Senate confirmation?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 01, 2018, 11:00:45 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 01, 2018, 12:50:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42773765_2045120568859826_4940402057686286336_n.png?_nc_cat=1&oh=66334fa41b5b07526ad6ba93db6bc4e0&oe=5C54EBD5)

Yeah because nobody has ever tried to dig up dirt on those people before :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 01, 2018, 11:19:18 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 10:05:39 AM
Does OG require Senate confirmation?

Nope. The Emperor can name them himself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 01, 2018, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 01, 2018, 12:50:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42773765_2045120568859826_4940402057686286336_n.png?_nc_cat=1&oh=66334fa41b5b07526ad6ba93db6bc4e0&oe=5C54EBD5)

Can we then submit Kavanaugh to and up-or-down vote of the people?  Him against Merrick Garland.
because i'll take that deal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 01:38:35 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 01, 2018, 11:19:18 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 10:05:39 AM
Does OG require Senate confirmation?

Nope. The Emperor can name them himself.

All of them? Without peeking at his notes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 01, 2018, 01:47:30 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 01:38:35 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 01, 2018, 11:19:18 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 10:05:39 AM
Does OG require Senate confirmation?

Nope. The Emperor can name them himself.

All of them? Without peeking at his notes?

He has to ad lib on the names sometimes, but he remembers all their faces.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 01, 2018, 01:58:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 01, 2018, 12:50:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42773765_2045120568859826_4940402057686286336_n.png?_nc_cat=1&oh=66334fa41b5b07526ad6ba93db6bc4e0&oe=5C54EBD5)

In a year when the Republicans have a majority in both the House and Senate and could possibly lose both?  I don't think they would like the results.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 01, 2018, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 01:38:35 PM
All of them? Without peeking at his notes?

He was famous for it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 05:21:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 01, 2018, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 01:38:35 PM
All of them? Without peeking at his notes?

He was famous for it.

Jesus was famous for raising the dead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 01, 2018, 07:38:29 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 05:21:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 01, 2018, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 01:38:35 PM
All of them? Without peeking at his notes?

He was famous for it.

Jesus was famous for raising the dead.

Whataboutism
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 01, 2018, 10:00:53 PM
And not really true.  Jesus was famous for exorcising demons.  Raising the dead was just a sideline.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 02, 2018, 10:34:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 01, 2018, 05:21:49 PM
Jesus was famous for raising the dead.

Don't fuck with the Jesus!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 02, 2018, 10:46:20 AM
"Personal saviour not personal enough."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 03, 2018, 11:25:33 AM
What's this bullshit? I don't fuckin' care! It don't matter to Jesus. But you're not foolin' me, man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 03, 2018, 08:50:40 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 01, 2018, 10:00:53 PM
And not really true.  Jesus was famous for exorcising demons.  Raising the dead was just a sideline.

Only famous because of who his dad was.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2018, 09:36:20 PM
Some anonymous carpenter?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2018, 12:19:19 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2018, 09:36:20 PM
Some anonymous carpenter?
With a messiah complex.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 04, 2018, 04:29:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42478924_1824630984331574_5065886433546338304_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&oh=d6f6696321e3243dc101ba48432056bc&oe=5C5B9063)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42576606_1882255145203977_1132515187270615040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&oh=53b5be44f1c2f3af5cb6cbad954d77ca&oe=5C203C2C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 04, 2018, 07:00:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14462841_1293342954062313_4246821564254180365_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&oh=fe1a5ea0fb922890d06d80237eb05b9f&oe=5C4B7F8C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2018, 07:09:36 AM
Syt, did your childhood home have lead paint?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2018, 07:13:06 AM
Why do you build me up, buttercups?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 04, 2018, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 04, 2018, 04:29:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42478924_1824630984331574_5065886433546338304_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&oh=d6f6696321e3243dc101ba48432056bc&oe=5C5B9063)

Ok while I do not regard it ideal, it is better than allowing rampant sexual abuse to go on. Don't we also care about our female friends and relations being safe?

But I don't get the due process part. Nobody is sending Kav to prison right? And how will confirming him achieve anything? I mean besides show that people making accusations of sexual abuse against you does not matter at all? Because that is a weird position to take.

I mean what if he did do it? Is that just an impossibility?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 04, 2018, 01:00:41 PM
Trumpy men need safe spaces now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on October 04, 2018, 01:22:23 PM
It's a dumb Russian troll meme and should be ignored anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 04, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
Not sure how Republicans can complain that due process was not observed when the Republican majority of that committee and the Republican chair of that committee decided the process which would used.  How they thought that the process which was used would in any way resemble a fair fact finding procedure for either the complainant or the respondent is perplexing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 04, 2018, 03:39:01 PM
I have a friend on FB that would give Syt's in-laws a run for their money.  Dude is retired and spends all his time sharing pro-Trump memes.  I'd unfollow or unfriend him, were it not for the fact that he posts pictures he takes at our youth football games and is really good at it :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 04, 2018, 03:42:28 PM
Yeah I hate those really political preachy types on Facebook.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 09, 2018, 01:07:25 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43159120_10156792336724489_5094482175479250944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=d1183d2071423b1b4a88ff5b69d873ab&oe=5C1444E1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 09, 2018, 01:34:17 PM
This from people consuming FoxNews?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 09, 2018, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 09, 2018, 01:34:17 PM
This from people consuming FoxNews?

I thought it was a critique of Fox News  :D

Also, whoever wrote that meme does not remember Cronkite's role in the turn in public opinion against the Vietnam war.  He did not just "read the news".  He took a reasoned position.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 09, 2018, 03:27:47 PM
What is really rich is that many conservatives blamed Cronkite's bias for the loss of the Vietnam war.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on October 09, 2018, 04:41:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 09, 2018, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 09, 2018, 01:34:17 PM
This from people consuming FoxNews?

I thought it was a critique of Fox News  :D

Also, whoever wrote that meme does not remember Cronkite's role in the turn in public opinion against the Vietnam war.  He did not just "read the news".  He took a reasoned position.

I'm certain they know about Cronkite's short piece to camera about Vietnam, but I  think they delight in pulling this sort of bullshit; knowing the 'truth', twisting it 180 degrees and still being able to hoodwink the gullible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on October 09, 2018, 06:32:15 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 09, 2018, 01:34:17 PM
This from people consuming FoxNews?

And from a source with the reasoned, moderate and dignified name of Daily Dose of Butthurt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2018, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 09, 2018, 01:34:17 PM
This from people consuming FoxNews?

Fox is not unique in this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 09, 2018, 07:52:26 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2018, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 09, 2018, 01:34:17 PM
This from people consuming FoxNews?

Fox is not unique in this.

You are correct, the UK has its own perhaps more virulent version.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2018, 07:54:46 PM
CNN does the competing talking heads thing too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 09, 2018, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2018, 07:54:46 PM
CNN does the competing talking heads thing too.

All the 24 hour news channels do.  But I don't think Mr. Butthurt was trying to say we all suck equally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 10, 2018, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2018, 07:54:46 PM
CNN does the competing talking heads thing too.

Yes, all news channels have people on the screen who talk and give opinions.  Are you suggesting that because of that one similarity all news shows are the same?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 10, 2018, 10:49:05 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2018, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2018, 07:54:46 PM
CNN does the competing talking heads thing too.

Yes, all news channels have people on the screen who talk and give opinions.  Are you suggesting that because of that one similarity all news shows are the same?

No. I'm suggesting most news shows fit Butthurts description.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 10, 2018, 10:52:41 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 10, 2018, 10:49:05 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2018, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2018, 07:54:46 PM
CNN does the competing talking heads thing too.

Yes, all news channels have people on the screen who talk and give opinions.  Are you suggesting that because of that one similarity all news shows are the same?

No. I'm suggesting most news shows fit Butthurts description.

If you think all news shows are the equivalent of Fox News then you are past hope.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 10, 2018, 11:39:41 AM
Why don't you stop inferring things and just look at what I've said.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 10, 2018, 12:19:00 PM
I don't think he infers without good cause. He's Canadian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 10, 2018, 01:48:23 PM
If one were to come up with the antithesis of Cronkite, it would have to be Sean Hannity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2018, 01:04:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43787576_1779377512189071_6685641067565416448_n.png?_nc_cat=102&oh=bf3e20f72653cb5274a03a08f32861ec&oe=5C4648D1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 07:59:14 AM
Well, Hillary kind of validated that one.  And Holder.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 07:59:25 AM
Bizarre. Your relatives are about as hostile and vicious as they come.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 08:02:34 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 07:59:14 AM
Well, Hillary kind of validated that one.  And Holder.


Yeah, what with her sacrificing those children to the Dark Lord living in a Pizza parlor.  And Holder, rubbing our faces in the fact that he was black.  We would never have had BLM if Holder stayed in the cotton fields where he belonged.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 07:59:14 AM
Well, Hillary kind of validated that one.  And Holder.

Is chanting 'lock her up' civil? I mean it is not like this is some kind of Democratic thing. Not that I endorse what Holder is saying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 08:05:49 AM
So do you agree with her, Valmy?  Should the Democrats abandon civility until they win back congress?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 08:07:11 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 08:05:49 AM
So do you agree with her, Valmy?  Should the Democrats abandon civility until they win back congress?

No.

Though I am not even sure what that means. It is not like everybody is holding back with how they feel about Trump. Or how they felt about Bush. But I am sure some of us were civil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2018, 08:07:24 AM
They're just tired.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43103859_1892515134118191_4206827274231611392_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&oh=c91afa7d32731891edc513610e5ea4fc&oe=5C4D3002)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 08:08:32 AM
Well maybe they should lead the way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 08:10:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 08:05:49 AM
So do you agree with her, Valmy?  Should the Democrats abandon civility until they win back congress?

Another thought I had: It reminds me a bit of the Republicans promising vengeance for the Kav thing. I mean...how much worse could it get? That is kind of my response to that idea. I mean wait...we have been civil this whole time?

I mean my respect for Donald Trump was less than zero from his civilian days and I have nothing but contempt for him and his administration, even if I have basic respect for the office of President. But I get the feeling my dislike and opposition to the President would be considered insufficient in many circles.

Final thought: I feel like we do better when we are using the 'Hope and Change' branding rather than the 'ALL REPUBLICANS ARE RACIST EARTH DESTROYING CORPORATE SLAVES' branding. So I just generally think it is a bad idea. If Hillary never made the 'deplorables' comment, for example, I bet she would be President now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2018, 08:15:11 AM
I've no energy for civility at this point. What's the point? Moral high ground doesn't seem to be worth much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 08:16:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2018, 08:15:11 AM
I've no energy for civility at this point. What's the point? Moral high ground doesn't seem to be worth much.

Well if you do do it, it is a tactic. You cannot expect anything to be reciprocated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 11, 2018, 08:27:50 AM
One of the immutable laws of nature is that sometimes you must reciprocate or die.  Tit for tat is a more robust strategy than turning the other cheek. 

Jesus should have clarified that you should turn the other cheek once.  If you get slapped again, then you kind of have to resort to a tactic that protects you from getting slapped further.  Everyone is better off if turning the other cheek works, but if early humans adopted that tactic against predatory animals, there would be no modern humans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 08:52:18 AM
Oh don't worry. The political ciimate will eventually deliver a far-left troll to gather the anti-elite sentiment from the other side.

If we are lucky he'll be a smart person playing the fool to get elected. If not, he won't be playing it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 08:54:27 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 08:52:18 AM
Oh don't worry. The political ciimate will eventually deliver a far-left troll to gather the anti-elite sentiment from the other side.

If we are lucky he'll be a smart person playing the fool to get elected. If not, he won't be playing it.

Oh boy. Won't that be special?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2018, 08:58:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 08:52:18 AM
Oh don't worry. The political ciimate will eventually deliver a far-left troll to gather the anti-elite sentiment from the other side.

If we are lucky he'll be a smart person playing the fool to get elected. If not, he won't be playing it.

Though that's somewhat of an aside as a lack of civility doesn't have to mean that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 09:03:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 08:54:27 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 08:52:18 AM
Oh don't worry. The political ciimate will eventually deliver a far-left troll to gather the anti-elite sentiment from the other side.

If we are lucky he'll be a smart person playing the fool to get elected. If not, he won't be playing it.

Oh boy. Won't that be special?

I don't see any other way. Unless the elections mid-term convince me otherwise, I am fairly certain moderate progressives won't stand a chance against loudmouth snake oil salesmen. They (moderates) are just not zeitgeist.

Last several years, only success moderates can show in the developed world is Macron in France and his success IMHO was a big part in managing to sell himself as radical change, despite his "mainstream" policies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 09:10:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2018, 08:58:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 08:52:18 AM
Oh don't worry. The political ciimate will eventually deliver a far-left troll to gather the anti-elite sentiment from the other side.

If we are lucky he'll be a smart person playing the fool to get elected. If not, he won't be playing it.

Though that's somewhat of an aside as a lack of civility doesn't have to mean that.

But it will. A candidate offering radical change and instant solutions can afford to be a yelling bafoon. A moderate cannot. Hence my above point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 11, 2018, 09:12:12 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 11, 2018, 08:27:50 AM
One of the immutable laws of nature is that sometimes you must reciprocate or die.  Tit for tat is a more robust strategy than turning the other cheek. 

Jesus should have clarified that you should turn the other cheek once.  If you get slapped again, then you kind of have to resort to a tactic that protects you from getting slapped further.  Everyone is better off if turning the other cheek works, but if early humans adopted that tactic against predatory animals, there would be no modern humans.

I don't think you understood Jesus' message (at least as was conveyed in the new testament). He ended up getting crucified and he was okay with that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 09:17:34 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 11, 2018, 09:12:12 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 11, 2018, 08:27:50 AM
One of the immutable laws of nature is that sometimes you must reciprocate or die.  Tit for tat is a more robust strategy than turning the other cheek. 

Jesus should have clarified that you should turn the other cheek once.  If you get slapped again, then you kind of have to resort to a tactic that protects you from getting slapped further.  Everyone is better off if turning the other cheek works, but if early humans adopted that tactic against predatory animals, there would be no modern humans.

I don't think you understood Jesus' message (at least as was conveyed in the new testament). He ended up getting crucified and he was okay with that.

OR Christianity was his revenge.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 09:20:33 AM
To punish the Romans I will create a religion that will function as their state ideology for the next 1,200 years  :hmm:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 11, 2018, 09:33:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 09:20:33 AM
To punish the Romans I will create a religion that will function as their state ideology for the next 1,200 years  :hmm:



Well the romans are gone and Christianity is till here. Point Jesus.


But, yeah, I don't think Tamas quite understands the message there :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 09:44:03 AM
It was a joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 11, 2018, 09:57:04 AM
Civility in public discourse has value to society as a whole.  That doesn't necessarily make it an effective tactic for any given politician.

Of course, not every politician who is uncivil is doing so as a tactic;  some people just don't have it in them to be civil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2018, 10:06:04 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 09:10:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2018, 08:58:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 08:52:18 AM
Oh don't worry. The political ciimate will eventually deliver a far-left troll to gather the anti-elite sentiment from the other side.

If we are lucky he'll be a smart person playing the fool to get elected. If not, he won't be playing it.

Though that's somewhat of an aside as a lack of civility doesn't have to mean that.

But it will. A candidate offering radical change and instant solutions can afford to be a yelling bafoon. A moderate cannot. Hence my above point.

But I don't actually want a candidate offering radical change and yet am tired of tolerating intolerance and buffoonery.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 10:08:31 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2018, 10:06:04 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 09:10:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2018, 08:58:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 08:52:18 AM
Oh don't worry. The political ciimate will eventually deliver a far-left troll to gather the anti-elite sentiment from the other side.

If we are lucky he'll be a smart person playing the fool to get elected. If not, he won't be playing it.

Though that's somewhat of an aside as a lack of civility doesn't have to mean that.

But it will. A candidate offering radical change and instant solutions can afford to be a yelling bafoon. A moderate cannot. Hence my above point.

But I don't actually want a candidate offering radical change and yet am tired of tolerating intolerance.

I am with you. Let's hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 10:59:48 AM
Quote from: dps on October 11, 2018, 09:57:04 AM
Civility in public discourse has value to society as a whole.  That doesn't necessarily make it an effective tactic for any given politician.

Of course, not every politician who is uncivil is doing so as a tactic;  some people just don't have it in them to be civil.

Well yeah without civility you cannot have a debate of any substance. But we have a critical mass of people who are not interested in debating ideas right now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 10:59:48 AM
Quote from: dps on October 11, 2018, 09:57:04 AM
Civility in public discourse has value to society as a whole.  That doesn't necessarily make it an effective tactic for any given politician.

Of course, not every politician who is uncivil is doing so as a tactic;  some people just don't have it in them to be civil.

Well yeah without civility you cannot have a debate of any substance. But we have a critical mass of people who are not interested in debating ideas right now.

While debates are certainly not on the agenda for most people (I guess that's normal with extremes rising on both ends), I think the short era of lack of political ideologies fighting each other, is over. The ideas of open and closed societies definitely seem to be at each other's throats.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 12:29:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 11, 2018, 08:27:50 AM
One of the immutable laws of nature is that sometimes you must reciprocate or die.  Tit for tat is a more robust strategy than turning the other cheek. 

Jesus should have clarified that you should turn the other cheek once.  If you get slapped again, then you kind of have to resort to a tactic that protects you from getting slapped further.  Everyone is better off if turning the other cheek works, but if early humans adopted that tactic against predatory animals, there would be no modern humans.


I don't see any point in civility anymore for Democrats.  If they are civil they don't get any credit for it, conservatives will still claim that anything they do is justified by some imaginary crimes Democrats are engaged in.  I'm sure Tim Mcveigh felt he was the real victim when he murdered all those people.

One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us.  Many would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.  Hell, they have no problem reminding us of why they keep all those guns, to kill us when conservatives have finally had enough and decided must overthrow the terrible tyranny of gay marriage and political correctness.  Why should we be civil to these people? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2018, 12:34:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 12:29:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 11, 2018, 08:27:50 AM
One of the immutable laws of nature is that sometimes you must reciprocate or die.  Tit for tat is a more robust strategy than turning the other cheek. 

Jesus should have clarified that you should turn the other cheek once.  If you get slapped again, then you kind of have to resort to a tactic that protects you from getting slapped further.  Everyone is better off if turning the other cheek works, but if early humans adopted that tactic against predatory animals, there would be no modern humans.


I don't see any point in civility anymore for Democrats.  If they are civil they don't get any credit for it, conservatives will still claim that anything they do is justified by some imaginary crimes Democrats are engaged in.  I'm sure Tim Mcveigh felt he was the real victim when he murdered all those people.

One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us.  Many would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.  Hell, they have no problem reminding us of why they keep all those guns, to kill us when conservatives have finally had enough and decided must overthrow the terrible tyranny of gay marriage and political correctness.  Why should we be civil to these people?

Because as long as you are economically useful to them they won't liquidate the ghetto. Surely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 12:42:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 12:29:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 11, 2018, 08:27:50 AM
One of the immutable laws of nature is that sometimes you must reciprocate or die.  Tit for tat is a more robust strategy than turning the other cheek. 

Jesus should have clarified that you should turn the other cheek once.  If you get slapped again, then you kind of have to resort to a tactic that protects you from getting slapped further.  Everyone is better off if turning the other cheek works, but if early humans adopted that tactic against predatory animals, there would be no modern humans.


I don't see any point in civility anymore for Democrats.  If they are civil they don't get any credit for it, conservatives will still claim that anything they do is justified by some imaginary crimes Democrats are engaged in.  I'm sure Tim Mcveigh felt he was the real victim when he murdered all those people.

One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us.  Many would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.  Hell, they have no problem reminding us of why they keep all those guns, to kill us when conservatives have finally had enough and decided must overthrow the terrible tyranny of gay marriage and political correctness.  Why should we be civil to these people? 

This way of thinking is very worrisome. I mean sure there are people on the right who it is absolutely a waste of time to talk to and do hate us, but it is not like all of them are in lockstep agreement on this. Just like they love to paint us as radical and violent extremists.

But you do point out a truth, or at least something I think is currently true, is that you get no credit for being civil with the other side or attempting to be bipartisan. On the contrary you will be lambasted for being a traitor. Many of the informal rules that make our system work, including the legal assumption that there is no partisanship, are breaking down. It is worrisome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 08:08:32 AM
Well maybe they should lead the way.

I'm civil :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 12:49:55 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 12:46:19 PM
I'm civil :)

And I appreciate it -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 12:50:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 12:29:57 PM
One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us. 

I don't hate you :)

QuoteMany would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.

:rolleyes:  You've been spending too much time around your Antifa friends.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 01:09:57 PM
The current occupant of the Oval Office is despised by 60% of the electorate, in part because of his swinish behavior.  Emulating that is not a recipe for success.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 01:15:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 01:09:57 PM
The current occupant of the Oval Office is despised by 60% of the electorate, in part because of his swinish behavior.  Emulating that is not a recipe for success.

Well said.

After all the warnings that we cannot allow Trump to be normalized, my party should not go in that direction. Most of the election in Texas has been very aspirational for the most part and I have appreciated that. Tell people why they should support you, the reasons you shouldn't vote for Donald Trump are already obvious to the majority of the electorate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on October 11, 2018, 01:24:02 PM
Michael Avenatti will save us
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 11, 2018, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 01:15:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 01:09:57 PM
The current occupant of the Oval Office is despised by 60% of the electorate, in part because of his swinish behavior.  Emulating that is not a recipe for success.

Well said.

After all the warnings that we cannot allow Trump to be normalized, my party should not go in that direction. Most of the election in Texas has been very aspirational for the most part and I have appreciated that. Tell people why they should support you, the reasons you shouldn't vote for Donald Trump are already obvious to the majority of the electorate.

I have been watching "the Circus" on HBO.  Their episodes spend a fair amount of time on the Texas race.  The point made in the last episode is that the Democratic candidate is running as a Texan first and as a Democrat second.   He seems to understand very well that politics are local.  There was also a discussion about how the Supreme Court nomination mess did not help him because it detracted from his message that he is the best Texan for the job and it infused party politics into the race.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2018, 01:33:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 12:42:23 PM
This way of thinking is very worrisome. I mean sure there are people on the right who it is absolutely a waste of time to talk to and do hate us, but it is not like all of them are in lockstep agreement on this. Just like they love to paint us as radical and violent extremists.

I've always thought that but then if that's true, I don't know how they are still supporting the Republicans.  The Republican script currently is about revolting behavior and fucking everyone over but the rich whenever they can.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 01:58:46 PM
Was that directed at me?

Not at all.  @DGuller and the rest of the "let's kick some ass" chorus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 11, 2018, 02:02:38 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 11, 2018, 08:52:18 AM
Oh don't worry. The political ciimate will eventually deliver a far-left troll to gather the anti-elite sentiment from the other side.

If we are lucky he'll be a smart person playing the fool to get elected. If not, he won't be playing it.

I don't think it will work as well on the left, because they haven't had the groundwork for it laid by Fox News propaganda for the last two decades.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 11, 2018, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2018, 01:29:19 PM
He seems to understand very well that politics are local.

I'm not so sure how true that is anymore.  Heitkamp in N Dakota is running a local focused campaign but is sagging due to national issues.  On the other hand, Hugin in NJ is running as a classic northern RINO focused on local concerns against a crooked hack (Menendez) but is struggling in the polls because of the Trump association.

Trump is such a polarizing figure and sucks up so much political oxygen that for-or-against him is crowding out all other issues. The ending of the Senate filibuster rules and the recent Supreme Court controversies have focused attention on significance of the overall balance of power in the Senate, which is driving voters in both parties to circle the partisan wagons.

I'm voting in NJ this year - I think Hugin is a decent guy and has been attacked unfairly for his pharma background.  In any other prior year I would have given a close look and probably voted for him given Menendez's ethical challenges. But after the Kavanaugh debacle I don't feel I can safely do that anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 11, 2018, 02:45:11 PM
That's even worse than Brooklyn.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 11, 2018, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 12:29:57 PM

One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us.  Many would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.  Hell, they have no problem reminding us of why they keep all those guns, to kill us when conservatives have finally had enough and decided must overthrow the terrible tyranny of gay marriage and political correctness.  Why should we be civil to these people? 

I'm on the right wing, and I don't hate you (not sure what "us" you're identifying with) and certainly don't want to kill you.  And I don't even own a gun, even though I firmly support the right to own them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 11, 2018, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 11, 2018, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2018, 01:29:19 PM
He seems to understand very well that politics are local.

I'm not so sure how true that is anymore.  Heitkamp in N Dakota is running a local focused campaign but is sagging due to national issues.  On the other hand, Hugin in NJ is running as a classic northern RINO focused on local concerns against a crooked hack (Menendez) but is struggling in the polls because of the Trump association.

Trump is such a polarizing figure and sucks up so much political oxygen that for-or-against him is crowding out all other issues. The ending of the Senate filibuster rules and the recent Supreme Court controversies have focused attention on significance of the overall balance of power in the Senate, which is driving voters in both parties to circle the partisan wagons.

I'm voting in NJ this year - I think Hugin is a decent guy and has been attacked unfairly for his pharma background.  In any other prior year I would have given a close look and probably voted for him given Menendez's ethical challenges. But after the Kavanaugh debacle I don't feel I can safely do that anymore.

Interesting.  In the sense of the Chinese curse  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 04:43:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 02:00:04 PM
Not at all.  @DGuller and the rest of the "let's kick some ass" chorus.

The whole "civility" thing conflates (and probably willfully) many different things.

There is the tone of political exchange as performed by elected officials or candidates.
There is the tone of media punditry
There is the issue of fascists and how to deal with them
There is the nature of the exchange coming from militants - and this varies quite a bit between exchanges online, bits that are relayed by social media, published pieces in traditional media.
There is the question of the limits between the private life, and public life.

and then, there is the issue of political ruthlessness.

Republicans have been politically ruthless. They have built on years of propaganda that have aimed to delegitimize their opponents. If your opponent are not worthy of being engaged, you can have the luxury of telling them very politely to go fuck themselves. Think Orrin Hatch smiling behind his bodyguards as he waves to the women protesting the Kavanaugh nomination. This is incredibly crude and insulting, and yet, performed with all the trappings of civility. That is part of a wider debate that civil rights activist confronted long ago: it's much easier to adhere to norms of civility when you are utterly shielded from the consequences of your political actions, whereas those who have to bear the brunt of policy must, in addition, be careful never to appear "uppity".   

Even if a polite Mike Pence was President, those circumstances would not change. Civility only works when there are expectations of reciprocity, and as of now, nothing the Republicans do indicate they have the slightest deference for a bipartisan political process, and are willing to let unsanction a President whose own rhetoric has been lacking respect for individuals, groups, and constitutional ideals. So, as far as I can tell, calls on the left are thus not for being more crass, but for ceasing to be so meek. There are ways to state your political preferences without equivocating so much. It is an appeal for more ruthlessness.

Quite frankly, the idea that Hilary using "deplorable" is somehow a terrible breach of civility that led to Donald Trump, the embodiment of restraint and civility, to be elected - tells me that, once again, the terms of the debate are dictated by Republicans capable of weaponizing every Democratic breach of political norms, while normalizing every Republican breach.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 05:23:53 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 04:43:37 PM
<snip>

I don't know what you mean by meek and ruthless.

Deligitimization is clearly not a monopoly of the right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 11, 2018, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 01:09:57 PM
The current occupant of the Oval Office is despised by 60% of the electorate, in part because of his swinish behavior.  Emulating that is not a recipe for success.
Approval ratings don't get to nominate Supreme Court justices.  Elected presidents do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 12:50:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 12:29:57 PM
One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us. 

I don't hate you :)

QuoteMany would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.

:rolleyes:  You've been spending too much time around your Antifa friends.


Actually reading the Federalist is what caused me to draw that conclusion.  They had a lovely article about murdering and scalping liberals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 01:09:57 PM
The current occupant of the Oval Office is despised by 60% of the electorate, in part because of his swinish behavior.  Emulating that is not a recipe for success.

And yet he is president, his party controls both houses of Congress, and he has a lock on Supreme Court.  That looks like success to me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 11, 2018, 06:58:49 PM
Approval ratings don't get to nominate Supreme Court justices.  Elected presidents do.

So you're thinking if the next Democratic presidential candidate acts like a douchebag, he or she will get elected with a slim margin in the electoral college, 2 million fewer popular votes, and get to nominate justices?

You haven't thought this one all the way through.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 08:09:36 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 11, 2018, 06:58:49 PM
Approval ratings don't get to nominate Supreme Court justices.  Elected presidents do.

So you're thinking if the next Democratic presidential candidate acts like a douchebag, he or she will get elected with a slim margin in the electoral college, 2 million fewer popular votes, and get to nominate justices?

You haven't thought this one all the way through.


If the alternative is to win the popular vote and lose the electoral college then I know where to put my money.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 11, 2018, 08:57:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 11, 2018, 12:50:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 12:29:57 PM
One thing is clear to me.  The Right-wing hates us. 

I don't hate you :)

QuoteMany would kill us if they thought they could get away with it.

:rolleyes:  You've been spending too much time around your Antifa friends.


Actually reading the Federalist is what caused me to draw that conclusion.  They had a lovely article about murdering and scalping liberals.

So instead of concluding that the author of the article and maybe his editor hated you, you decided a third of the country hated you. That's not healthy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 09:02:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 08:09:36 PM
If the alternative is to win the popular vote and lose the electoral college then I know where to put my money.

We're not playing Let's Make A Deal Raz.  You don't get to pick your outcome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 09:12:17 PM
What's your solution, Yi?






Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 09:36:08 PM
Be the Grown Up Party.  Be The Responsible Adult Party.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 09:37:32 PM
What does that mean?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2018, 10:08:01 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 11, 2018, 08:57:59 PM

So instead of concluding that the author of the article and maybe his editor hated you, you decided a third of the country hated you. That's not healthy.



No one has ever called me healthy.  I've seen so many of the local conservatives have "liked" III% militia stuff on their face book.  So many thought that the reasonable response to protesters on the road is to run them down.  The NRA openly talks about the need to kill fellow citizens if they don't get their way.  The President declares people he doesn't like "Treasonous" and "enemies of the people".  There is no loyal opposition, there is only people paid off by the Arch-Jew Soros.  More and more we see people who believe the QAnon conspiracy theory, where the President will suspend the Constitution and murder his enemies.  They see this as a positive development.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 10:08:41 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 04:43:37 PM
Quite frankly, the idea that Hilary using "deplorable" is somehow a terrible breach of civility that led to Donald Trump, the embodiment of restraint and civility, to be elected - tells me that, once again, the terms of the debate are dictated by Republicans capable of weaponizing every Democratic breach of political norms, while normalizing every Republican breach.

A similar line sunk Romney in 2012. Trump is an almost unique force. Thinking that the rules that apply to him apply to everybody is a fools notion. Ted Cruz could not get away with what Trump can. I am not sure why but eventually it will catch up to Trump in 2020, I believe that.

Trying to out-Trump Trump will not work. You have to be the anti-Trump. And frankly that is how elections usually work anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 10:16:15 PM
That presumes Trump is an anomaly, and that normality will return. I do not share that assessment. And both you and yo seem to continue to conflate many things in "out-Trumping".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 11:47:43 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 10:16:15 PM
That presumes Trump is an anomaly, and that normality will return. I do not share that assessment. And both you and yo seem to continue to conflate many things in "out-Trumping".

Trump is an anomaly. That is all I was presuming. I have already spoken on how unspoken and unwritten norms are being overturned and those are not easily restored, if that is even a possibility.

If the strategy is not to react from Trump by taking a page out of his book and attempt to be Trump, then perhaps I do not understand what is meant by no longer being civil which is distinct from what has already gone on. Perhaps I simply do not understand what things we are talking about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 11, 2018, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 10:16:15 PM
That presumes Trump is an anomaly, and that normality will return.

That's the $100,000 question.

There are certain values associated with America. Core among them are the "middle class" bourgeois virtues of probity, lawfulness, modesty, temperance and prudence.  The other stem is the mythic and heroic American virtues, often embodied by Western heroes - the virtues of quiet courage, stoic adherance to duty and honor, "speaking softly and carrying a big stick."  These virtues aren't partisan, but the Republican Party has traditionally identified itself closely with them ever since its formation.

In the Hollywood portrayals, these two sets of virtues were embodied by characters played by Jimmy Stewart and Gary Cooper, respectively. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance becomes a Senator, and almost certainly a Republican one.  As it happens Stewart and Cooper were both staunch Republicans in real life.  Leading Republican politicians in the modern era from Ike to Reagan, Dole to McCain all celebrated and attempted to embody those virtues; even Nixon could effect stoic resignation.  They did so not only out of personal conviction, but because they understood it was expected, even necessary, to succeed politically.

Trump is a walking, talking affront to these values.  He is immodest to an extreme, lacks emotional control, imprudent, contemptuous of all rules that would restrain him, he mocks traditional notions of honor ("I like people who aren't captured), he is a loudmouth, and a bully, but he acts weakly in the presence of other "strongmen".

And yet this rejection and contradiction of traditional American virtues not only has not hurt Trump but seemingly has helped him. The question is whether this is an anomolous episode or reflects a broader shift in values. The traditional values were perhaps often observed in the breach. They did not necessarily incorporate other important virtues like commitments to justice, fairness, or broader social solidarity. But they are truly virtues and they did provide an ethical center and restraint on politics. The pre-Trump GOP could claim with some legitimacy to reflect broader national values - the present day GOP is increasingly unmoored from principle. It is becoming a Nietzschean party, nothing is left other than the Will to Power.  If that is truly the terminal point, it will not end well for America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 12, 2018, 12:46:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2018, 11:47:43 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 10:16:15 PM
That presumes Trump is an anomaly, and that normality will return. I do not share that assessment. And both you and yo seem to continue to conflate many things in "out-Trumping".

Trump is an anomaly. That is all I was presuming. I have already spoken on how unspoken and unwritten norms are being overturned and those are not easily restored, if that is even a possibility.

If the strategy is not to react from Trump by taking a page out of his book and attempt to be Trump, then perhaps I do not understand what is meant by no longer being civil which is distinct from what has already gone on. Perhaps I simply do not understand what things we are talking about.

Clearly as I don't think anyone was calling for Dems to emulate Trump, least of all Hillary Clinton..
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 12, 2018, 01:38:50 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 11, 2018, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 11, 2018, 10:16:15 PM
That presumes Trump is an anomaly, and that normality will return.

That's the $100,000 question.

There are certain values associated with America. Core among them are the "middle class" bourgeois virtues of probity, lawfulness, modesty, temperance and prudence.  The other stem is the mythic and heroic American virtues, often embodied by Western heroes - the virtues of quiet courage, stoic adherance to duty and honor, "speaking softly and carrying a big stick."  These virtues aren't partisan, but the Republican Party has traditionally identified itself closely with them ever since its formation.

In the Hollywood portrayals, these two sets of virtues were embodied by characters played by Jimmy Stewart and Gary Cooper, respectively. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance becomes a Senator, and almost certainly a Republican one.  As it happens Stewart and Cooper were both staunch Republicans in real life.  Leading Republican politicians in the modern era from Ike to Reagan, Dole to McCain all celebrated and attempted to embody those virtues; even Nixon could effect stoic resignation.  They did so not only out of personal conviction, but because they understood it was expected, even necessary, to succeed politically.

Trump is a walking, talking affront to these values.  He is immodest to an extreme, lacks emotional control, imprudent, contemptuous of all rules that would restrain him, he mocks traditional notions of honor ("I like people who aren't captured), he is a loudmouth, and a bully, but he acts weakly in the presence of other "strongmen".

And yet this rejection and contradiction of traditional American virtues not only has not hurt Trump but seemingly has helped him. The question is whether this is an anomolous episode or reflects a broader shift in values. The traditional values were perhaps often observed in the breach. They did not necessarily incorporate other important virtues like commitments to justice, fairness, or broader social solidarity. But they are truly virtues and they did provide an ethical center and restraint on politics. The pre-Trump GOP could claim with some legitimacy to reflect broader national values - the present day GOP is increasingly unmoored from principle. It is becoming a Nietzschean party, nothing is left other than the Will to Power.  If that is truly the terminal point, it will not end well for America.

It's the apex of white trash power.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 12, 2018, 05:03:51 AM
I know you guys dismiss this stuff usually as irrelevant but Hungary was going through the exact same shit before 2010.

The left struggled as the right  (just one party, Fidesz at that point) removed all standards and barriers. The slightest slight by a leftist politican/person was made into a massive insult on general human dignity by the right and their followers who were very happy to play along, all the while no scandal form Fidesz could be big enough to register a reaction in their voter base. Seemed like they kept drawing people and once somebody committed to the tribe they would not leave.

I am not sure how the fight would have panned out, because the 2008 crisis came along and destroyed all hopes the then-governing left had. The right then proceeded to apply the same modus operandi to governing, and you have a general idea of where that has led after 8 years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 12, 2018, 08:46:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 12, 2018, 12:46:48 AM
Clearly as I don't think anyone was calling for Dems to emulate Trump, least of all Hillary Clinton..

Clearly. Hence why I was saying so. I am not sure what is being called for.

If the idea is to stop being nice, well I don't think we are being nice. We just do not have the political power to really be more than a pain in the ass....yet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 12, 2018, 09:33:22 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 09:36:08 PM
Be the Grown Up Party.  Be The Responsible Adult Party.
How did that work for the Democrats so far?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 12, 2018, 09:37:31 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 12, 2018, 09:33:22 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 11, 2018, 09:36:08 PM
Be the Grown Up Party.  Be The Responsible Adult Party.
How did that work for the Democrats so far?

Yeah,

I am not sure what Yi means by the Grown up Party, but the mantra of when they go low we go high didn't exactly work out too well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 11:00:55 AM
I certainly don't see Trump as anomaly.  He's a symptom of a disease that plagues the country.  It's always been there and bubbled up occasionally to poison the body politic.  George Wallace was a previous manifestation.  Trump is a particularly noxious form, but it's very important to remember: People want this.  They aren't going to suddenly stop wanting this unless Trump brings about a major disaster.  Quite a few Republicans have decided to adopt Trumpism.  Many new Republicans resonate with his ethos.

People want this for a simple reason:  They want to hurt people they don't like.  Primarily Hispanics and Muslims, but all sorts of feminists and those pointy-headed liberals who tell them that they are descended from monkeys and similar unwelcome knowledge.  They won't stop wanting this until Trump inflicts misery on them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 12, 2018, 11:57:10 AM
You sort of seem like you want to hurt people you don't like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 12, 2018, 12:02:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 11:00:55 AM
I certainly don't see Trump as anomaly.  He's a symptom of a disease that plagues the country.  It's always been there and bubbled up occasionally to poison the body politic.  George Wallace was a previous manifestation.  Trump is a particularly noxious form, but it's very important to remember: People want this.  They aren't going to suddenly stop wanting this unless Trump brings about a major disaster.  Quite a few Republicans have decided to adopt Trumpism.  Many new Republicans resonate with his ethos.

People want this for a simple reason:  They want to hurt people they don't like.  Primarily Hispanics and Muslims, but all sorts of feminists and those pointy-headed liberals who tell them that they are descended from monkeys and similar unwelcome knowledge.  They won't stop wanting this until Trump inflicts misery on them.

His style is the anomaly. The people who support him are not.

I mean I certainly cannot see another right wing candidate rolling to victory after calling Vietnam POWs losers and cowards. But for Trump that is ok. Not sure why.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 12, 2018, 12:25:24 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41461668_10213434154944059_9179724100996694016_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&oh=272ada8b795480f70f9cec3e324d4862&oe=5C17CD89)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 12, 2018, 12:29:08 PM
What happened to not being ugly to people Syt's relatives?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 12, 2018, 12:38:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 12, 2018, 11:57:10 AM
You sort of seem like you want to hurt people you don't like.

Not Raz. He wouldn't hurt a fly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 12, 2018, 11:57:10 AM
You sort of seem like you want to hurt people you don't like.


Who do I "seem" to sort of want to hurt?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 12:42:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 12, 2018, 12:02:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 11:00:55 AM
I certainly don't see Trump as anomaly.  He's a symptom of a disease that plagues the country.  It's always been there and bubbled up occasionally to poison the body politic.  George Wallace was a previous manifestation.  Trump is a particularly noxious form, but it's very important to remember: People want this.  They aren't going to suddenly stop wanting this unless Trump brings about a major disaster.  Quite a few Republicans have decided to adopt Trumpism.  Many new Republicans resonate with his ethos.

People want this for a simple reason:  They want to hurt people they don't like.  Primarily Hispanics and Muslims, but all sorts of feminists and those pointy-headed liberals who tell them that they are descended from monkeys and similar unwelcome knowledge.  They won't stop wanting this until Trump inflicts misery on them.

His style is the anomaly. The people who support him are not.

I mean I certainly cannot see another right wing candidate rolling to victory after calling Vietnam POWs losers and cowards. But for Trump that is ok. Not sure why.


Cause that's what they want.  This is politics driven by spite.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 12, 2018, 12:43:50 PM
Well consider me spited :P

How much spiting do they need to do before they have considered the spite sufficient?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 12:52:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 12, 2018, 12:43:50 PM
Well consider me spited :P

How much spiting do they need to do before they have considered the spite sufficient?

Well, I did see one person say they want to hang the treasonous globalists on the capital mall and leave the bodies to rot as a warning to others, so maybe after that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 12, 2018, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 12, 2018, 11:57:10 AM
You sort of seem like you want to hurt people you don't like.


Who do I "seem" to sort of want to hurt?

People on the Right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 12, 2018, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 12, 2018, 11:57:10 AM
You sort of seem like you want to hurt people you don't like.


Who do I "seem" to sort of want to hurt?

People on the Right.


Perhaps you could point to a relevant passage where I said this?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 12, 2018, 01:11:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 12, 2018, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 12, 2018, 11:57:10 AM
You sort of seem like you want to hurt people you don't like.


Who do I "seem" to sort of want to hurt?

People on the Right.


Perhaps you could point to a relevant passage where I said this?

Usually the person doesn't say this himself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on October 12, 2018, 04:15:40 PM
What if there were a right wing meme too retarded even for Syt's sisters to post?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 12, 2018, 04:17:11 PM
Quote from: Camerus on October 12, 2018, 04:15:40 PM
What if there were a right wing meme too retarded even for Syt's sisters to post?

unpossible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 12, 2018, 04:22:29 PM
Quote from: Camerus on October 12, 2018, 04:15:40 PM
What if there were a right wing meme too retarded even for Syt's sisters to post?

No idea what you mean.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43879516_2199509820338210_1029517851423145984_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&oh=945118eb5a9e212d0b5744c00e7a20c2&oe=5C4DCFE8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 12, 2018, 04:26:42 PM
It's really creepy how some elements seem to want there to be serious bloodletting based upon political differences.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 12, 2018, 04:30:04 PM
Yes. The casual/hopeful way in which a new civil war is being brought up by some people on the right - along with the current rhetoric from the President and his cronies about the illegitimacy of political opposition, and the "angry mob" of the Democrats, unfit and dangerous to govern - should be major warning signs. It is the transformation of adversaries into enemies - what Carl Schmidt, the pro-Nazi political thinker had advocated as the defining feature of what politics ought to be.

But it is all being normalized. Apparently, it's only concerning when people shout at Ted Cruz in a restaurant.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 12, 2018, 04:41:20 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 11:00:55 AM
He's a symptom of a disease that plagues the country. 

Diabetes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 12, 2018, 04:41:53 PM
The guy in the flannel shirt  looks real  fit for duty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 12, 2018, 04:46:08 PM
I think they're being casual because they know it's ridiculous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 12, 2018, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 12, 2018, 04:41:53 PM
The guy in the flannel shirt  looks real  fit for duty.

He can be their Winfield Scott.

(https://uniongenerals.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/4scott2.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 12, 2018, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: Camerus on October 12, 2018, 04:15:40 PM
What if there were a right wing meme too retarded even for Syt's sisters to post?

That's a worse paradox than 'could Jesus microwave a burrito too hot for him to eat'.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 05:08:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 12, 2018, 01:11:01 PM


Usually the person doesn't say this himself.


Then I suppose Derspeiss is shit-out-of-luck
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 12, 2018, 05:17:32 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2018, 12:52:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 12, 2018, 12:43:50 PM
Well consider me spited :P

How much spiting do they need to do before they have considered the spite sufficient?

Well, I did see one person say they want to hang the treasonous globalists on the capital mall and leave the bodies to rot as a warning to others, so maybe after that.

Dang. Well at least my death will bring an end to spiteful politics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 14, 2018, 07:28:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43140775_2375415945818888_7068284767732498432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&oh=76bc598e9a39a9b25a4f9174fce6cde7&oe=5C54DB53)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 14, 2018, 10:26:16 AM
Non-existent children have thoughts?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 14, 2018, 10:46:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2018, 10:26:16 AM
Non-existent children have thoughts?

The counter-point argument would be that a child murdered in utero is still a child.

The post Syt made very obviously takes a pro-life view, but it's not just simply ridiculous like many of the other posts in this thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 14, 2018, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2018, 10:46:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2018, 10:26:16 AM
Non-existent children have thoughts?

The counter-point argument would be that a child murdered in utero is still a child.

The post Syt made very obviously takes a pro-life view, but it's not just simply ridiculous like many of the other posts in this thread.
I agree.  That particular post is not ridiculous, it just reflects the pro-life point of view, and nothing more.  It is based on a pro-life axiom, but so are all of the even most intellectually honest pro-life or pro-choice arguments.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 14, 2018, 11:46:06 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 14, 2018, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2018, 10:46:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2018, 10:26:16 AM
Non-existent children have thoughts?

The counter-point argument would be that a child murdered in utero is still a child.

The post Syt made very obviously takes a pro-life view, but it's not just simply ridiculous like many of the other posts in this thread.
I agree.  That particular post is not ridiculous, it just reflects the pro-life point of view, and nothing more.  It is based on a pro-life axiom, but so are all of the even most intellectually honest pro-life or pro-choice arguments.

Yeah...I am pro-choice, and I thought it was a rather sad picture.

Abortion does suck. Even if I don't believe there are a bunch of infant souls out there, I do think every abortion is a waste of human potential, and that is sad.

That is not ridiculous at all. It is effective and even fair, based on the views of those who hold pro-life views.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 14, 2018, 01:14:14 PM
All the fetuses are now in heaven instead of being exposed to a sinful earth which could have sent them all to hell though :hmm:

Anyway I hope that if R v W is overturned reasonable people can find a compromise. There are a few of those left.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 14, 2018, 03:01:07 PM
Tiny American flags for all!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 14, 2018, 03:24:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 14, 2018, 01:14:14 PM
All the fetuses are now in heaven instead of being exposed to a sinful earth which could have sent them all to hell though :hmm:

Anyway I hope that if R v W is overturned reasonable people can find a compromise. There are a few of those left.

Alas, in this climate, not likely.  Overturning Roe just moves the political battlegrounds to the states.  Though even then, it probably won't be too long before someone pushed for a blanket ban at the federal level.  There is ample wording in the Constitution that can be used for someone to justify it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 14, 2018, 03:32:44 PM
I'm vaguely pro-life, it's like being pro-Italy.  It's not something I care that much about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 14, 2018, 04:19:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2018, 10:46:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2018, 10:26:16 AM
Non-existent children have thoughts?

The counter-point argument would be that a child murdered in utero is still a child.

The post Syt made very obviously takes a pro-life view, but it's not just simply ridiculous like many of the other posts in this thread.

The counter-counter thought is that a child murdered in utero is never born, and therefor is never cursed with original sin, and so goes straight to heaven.  That's a far, far better fate than being born and almost certainly going to hell.

The devoutly religious should support abortion for all.  Let the abortion doctors (evil and going to hell anyway) do everyone's offspring a huge favor.

Edit:  Valmy beat me to part of this. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 14, 2018, 10:23:24 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 14, 2018, 03:24:20 PM
Overturning Roe just moves the political battlegrounds to the states.

Where it should have been all along.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 14, 2018, 10:38:37 PM
Quote from: dps on October 14, 2018, 10:23:24 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 14, 2018, 03:24:20 PM
Overturning Roe just moves the political battlegrounds to the states.

Where it should have been all along.
I don't think it should be up to the states, not such a fundamental question.  It should up to the federal government, just not that branch of federal government.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 14, 2018, 11:06:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 14, 2018, 04:19:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2018, 10:46:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 14, 2018, 10:26:16 AM
Non-existent children have thoughts?

The counter-point argument would be that a child murdered in utero is still a child.

The post Syt made very obviously takes a pro-life view, but it's not just simply ridiculous like many of the other posts in this thread.

The counter-counter thought is that a child murdered in utero is never born, and therefor is never cursed with original sin, and so goes straight to heaven.  That's a far, far better fate than being born and almost certainly going to hell.

The devoutly religious should support abortion for all.  Let the abortion doctors (evil and going to hell anyway) do everyone's offspring a huge favor.

Edit:  Valmy beat me to part of this.


Counter-counter-counter argument is that life begins at conception and thus they count as being born and fall into Limbo, the first circle of Hell (which isn't so bad.  Plato hangs out there).

This is just me playing the devil's advocate though.  It's interesting that the Bible doesn't really support this view.  The ancient Israelites didn't seem to have much problem with abortion.  Life began when you drew breath (like when God breathed life into Adam).  A fetus was probably was not considered alive.  There is no restriction on abortion in the Bible, the closest thing was a decree that if a man beat a woman who was pregnant and she aborted the fetus as a result the man owed her money (I think.  I'm doing this from memory).  The fact that the punishment was a fine, rather than execution or exile indicates that they did not consider the fetus to a living person.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 15, 2018, 12:06:16 AM
Quote from: dps on October 14, 2018, 10:23:24 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 14, 2018, 03:24:20 PM
Overturning Roe just moves the political battlegrounds to the states.

Where it should have been all along.

The problem will become, that those who believe abortion = murder, won't be satisfied with that.  After all, who would ever say that murder, as to whether it should be a crime or not, should be left up to the states?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 15, 2018, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 15, 2018, 12:06:16 AM
Quote from: dps on October 14, 2018, 10:23:24 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 14, 2018, 03:24:20 PM
Overturning Roe just moves the political battlegrounds to the states.

Where it should have been all along.

The problem will become, that those who believe abortion = murder, won’t be satisfied with that.  After all, who would ever say that murder, as to whether it should be a crime or not, should be left up to the states?

Actually, it is left up to the states.  Murder is a state crime, not a federal crime.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 15, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
I lean towards pro-choice in the debate, but ultimately think it's a complicated and very emotional topic. If it weren't prohibitive, I'd say this needed looking at on a case by case basis.

That said, I think this is a question in which women should have a major say, not old men. Further, the GOP's position on the topic seems slightly cynical. They will do anything to protect unborn life, but once that life's born - well, you're on your own now. Good luck!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 15, 2018, 12:35:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 15, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
That said, I think this is a question in which women should have a major say, not old men.
I never understood that argument from the logical perspective.  Being an interested party shouldn't entitle you to have a greater say in making laws.  Often it's actually a bad thing when interested parties decide on laws that affect them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 15, 2018, 12:47:57 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 15, 2018, 12:06:16 AM
The problem will become, that those who believe abortion = murder, won't be satisfied with that.  After all, who would ever say that murder, as to whether it should be a crime or not, should be left up to the states?

And those who subscribe to the alternate view won't be satisfied either.  And they're both free to persuade the other to their way of thinking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 15, 2018, 12:56:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 15, 2018, 12:35:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 15, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
That said, I think this is a question in which women should have a major say, not old men.
I never understood that argument from the logical perspective.  Being an interested party shouldn't entitle you to have a greater say in making laws.  Often it's actually a bad thing when interested parties decide on laws that affect them.

I tend to agree, but when it's legislating about women's bodies in this way it feels uncomfortable to me. (As an aside, I think it better to give up a child for adoption than undergo abortion, but I've never been in the situation where I would have to make that call, and likely never will be.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 15, 2018, 08:25:49 AM
Quote from: Camerus on October 12, 2018, 04:15:40 PM
What if there were a right wing meme too retarded even for Syt's sisters to post?

I may have found one or two, but I'm not posting them :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 08:56:49 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 15, 2018, 08:25:49 AM
Quote from: Camerus on October 12, 2018, 04:15:40 PM
What if there were a right wing meme too retarded even for Syt's sisters to post?

I may have found one or two, but I'm not posting them :D

You are a good and merciful man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 08:59:38 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 15, 2018, 12:35:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 15, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
That said, I think this is a question in which women should have a major say, not old men.
I never understood that argument from the logical perspective.  Being an interested party shouldn't entitle you to have a greater say in making laws.  Often it's actually a bad thing when interested parties decide on laws that affect them.

There are few other situations where the law would require somebody to go on a nine month intense physical process which could do serious damage to their career prospects.

And then there would be problem of throwing tens of thousands more children into the all the ready underfunded and overloaded child welfare system every year.

Which is why I think an attempt to eliminate abortion needs to be accompanied with a big birth control research push along with more funds for child welfare.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 15, 2018, 09:17:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 08:56:49 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 15, 2018, 08:25:49 AM
Quote from: Camerus on October 12, 2018, 04:15:40 PM
What if there were a right wing meme too retarded even for Syt's sisters to post?

I may have found one or two, but I'm not posting them :D

You are a good and merciful man.

After those Poll Cats, I figured I owed it to you guys.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 15, 2018, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 08:59:38 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 15, 2018, 12:35:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 15, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
That said, I think this is a question in which women should have a major say, not old men.
I never understood that argument from the logical perspective.  Being an interested party shouldn't entitle you to have a greater say in making laws.  Often it's actually a bad thing when interested parties decide on laws that affect them.

There are few other situations where the law would require somebody to go on a nine month intense physical process which could do serious damage to their career prospects.

It would have seemed weird to me if military service (back in my day) had been decided on by men but not women.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 12:07:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 15, 2018, 12:05:50 PM
It would have seemed weird to me if military service (back in my day) had been decided on by men but not women.

Ah but they provided ways to get out of military service.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 15, 2018, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 12:07:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 15, 2018, 12:05:50 PM
It would have seemed weird to me if military service (back in my day) had been decided on by men but not women.

Ah but they provided ways to get out of military service.

Now you seem to be talking about results and no longer about who's making the decisions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 15, 2018, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 12:07:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 15, 2018, 12:05:50 PM
It would have seemed weird to me if military service (back in my day) had been decided on by men but not women.

Ah but they provided ways to get out of military service.

Now you seem to be talking about results and no longer about who's making the decisions.

I thought I started out by talking about results.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 16, 2018, 11:14:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 15, 2018, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 15, 2018, 12:07:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 15, 2018, 12:05:50 PM
It would have seemed weird to me if military service (back in my day) had been decided on by men but not women.

Ah but they provided ways to get out of military service.

Now you seem to be talking about results and no longer about who's making the decisions.

I thought I started out by talking about results.

I don't see it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 11:18:50 AM
Well look I concede that if compulsory military service was brought back and only affected men then a case could be made that women shouldn't be the ones deciding that using similar logic.

So I guess that is one of those few other situations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 16, 2018, 11:28:02 AM
If that's the case though, should rich politicians not be in charge of deciding what happens to the poor?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 16, 2018, 02:10:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 11:18:50 AM
Well look I concede that if compulsory military service was brought back and only affected men then a case could be made that women shouldn't be the ones deciding that using similar logic.

So I guess that is one of those few other situations.

And I disagree with that case of course. I don't think identity politics is the answer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 02:11:24 PM
I got that you do  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 02:13:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2018, 11:28:02 AM
If that's the case though, should rich politicians not be in charge of deciding what happens to the poor?

A special meeting of the poor politicians will decide what happens to them. It might be sparsely attended.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 16, 2018, 03:54:28 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 16, 2018, 02:10:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 11:18:50 AM
Well look I concede that if compulsory military service was brought back and only affected men then a case could be made that women shouldn't be the ones deciding that using similar logic.

So I guess that is one of those few other situations.

And I disagree with that case of course. I don't think identity politics is the answer.

Yeah, I am not sure what world Valmy inhabits that he thinks a case could be made in that scenario.

Valmy's view appears to be an odd distortion of "no taxation without representation".  That does not mean that the people who do not pay taxes should not be allowed vote.  It just means that people who pay taxes should also be allowed to vote.  His is a basic misunderstanding of liberal democratic values.  But I suppose, given the extent to which those values are being eroded in the US, one can understand his confusion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 16, 2018, 04:45:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 16, 2018, 03:54:28 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 16, 2018, 02:10:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 11:18:50 AM
Well look I concede that if compulsory military service was brought back and only affected men then a case could be made that women shouldn't be the ones deciding that using similar logic.

So I guess that is one of those few other situations.

And I disagree with that case of course. I don't think identity politics is the answer.

Yeah, I am not sure what world Valmy inhabits that he thinks a case could be made in that scenario.

Valmy's view appears to be an odd distortion of "no taxation without representation".  That does not mean that the people who do not pay taxes should not be allowed vote.  It just means that people who pay taxes should also be allowed to vote.  His is a basic misunderstanding of liberal democratic values.  But I suppose, given the extent to which those values are being eroded in the US, one can understand his confusion.

Wow, what a dick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 16, 2018, 04:48:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 16, 2018, 04:45:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 16, 2018, 03:54:28 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 16, 2018, 02:10:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 11:18:50 AM
Well look I concede that if compulsory military service was brought back and only affected men then a case could be made that women shouldn't be the ones deciding that using similar logic.

So I guess that is one of those few other situations.

And I disagree with that case of course. I don't think identity politics is the answer.

Yeah, I am not sure what world Valmy inhabits that he thinks a case could be made in that scenario.

Valmy's view appears to be an odd distortion of "no taxation without representation".  That does not mean that the people who do not pay taxes should not be allowed vote.  It just means that people who pay taxes should also be allowed to vote.  His is a basic misunderstanding of liberal democratic values.  But I suppose, given the extent to which those values are being eroded in the US, one can understand his confusion.

Wow, what a dick.

I suppose you wish to make an argument that his statements are in keeping with Liberal Democratic Values, or that Liberal Democratic Values are not being eroded in the US?  Or supply some other explanation for Valmy's odd view on this issue?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2018, 05:22:34 PM
Valmys view isn't that odd. It's the same that Syt expressed in this thread, and Norgy has done in the past.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 16, 2018, 05:26:55 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2018, 05:22:34 PM
Valmys view isn't that odd. It's the same that Syt expressed in this thread, and Norgy has done in the past.

I agree and amend my description to read "misguided".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 09:14:29 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2018, 05:22:34 PM
Valmys view isn't that odd. It's the same that Syt expressed in this thread, and Norgy has done in the past.

The funny part was is all I was trying to do was just explain the logic behind the perspective, which is what DGuller was asking.

But I guess I am too committed now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 17, 2018, 12:56:29 AM
I don't fully understand how Valmy is worse than Hitler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 10:26:57 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.riemurasia.net%2Falbumit%2Fmmedia%2Flp%2F8kv%2Fhggt%2F3175%2F1646631939.jpg&hash=3f212b01bf2ee1f66ae85843174feddbb3c2a6a3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on October 17, 2018, 10:29:25 PM
She doesn't know what Skynet is. So disappointed in that generation. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on October 17, 2018, 10:30:32 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/02/robot-kills-worker-at-volkswagen-plant-in-germany
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2018, 10:29:25 PM
She doesn't know what Skynet is. So disappointed in that generation. :(

How familiar are you with popular movies of the 40s?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on October 17, 2018, 10:35:22 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2018, 10:29:25 PM
She doesn't know what Skynet is. So disappointed in that generation. :(

How familiar are you with popular movies of the 40s?



Quote

Workers in the plant are usually separated from the robots, which operate within a confined area, but in this instance, the victim was working on the robot inside the cage when he was attacked. Another worker who was present during the accident was not harmed, Hillwig said.

Guilty till proven innocent again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 10:37:32 PM
This is a really though time for young German AI.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 17, 2018, 10:48:41 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2018, 10:29:25 PM
She doesn't know what Skynet is. So disappointed in that generation. :(

How familiar are you with popular movies of the 40s?

They had a Terminator movie a couple years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 17, 2018, 10:58:44 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2018, 10:29:25 PM
She doesn't know what Skynet is. So disappointed in that generation. :(

How familiar are you with popular movies of the 40s?

I guess the equivalent to the Terminator would be movies like Dracula or Frankenstein from that era right? I think I would easily get a reference to those films (the films, not the books) even if I have never seen them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:09:27 PM
If I, who grew up during the Terminator craze, have not felt the slightest desire to see these movies, I should not expect if from younger people who even lack the pretext of nostalgia.

As an aside, I have resolved not to change my deadpan jokes when I teach, and try to discern what references my students are able to pick up. Simpsons references are inevitably a bust. So are most action hero movie references (all those one-liners...). Still, I surprisingly got a reaction out of references from Back to the Future, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Bill & Ted (!?). There are also *still* 20-something fans of Monty Python. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 17, 2018, 11:11:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2018, 10:58:44 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2018, 10:29:25 PM
She doesn't know what Skynet is. So disappointed in that generation. :(

How familiar are you with popular movies of the 40s?

I guess the equivalent to the Terminator would be movies like Dracula or Frankenstein from that era right? I think I would easily get a reference to those films (the films, not the books) even if I have never seen them.

This is just me, but my dad loves old horror movies, and I would easily catch a reference to an old Dracula or Frankenstein movie.

I do not drink... wine...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 17, 2018, 11:16:06 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:09:27 PM
Simpsons references are inevitably a bust.
I know it's been said before, but this time it's true:  the young generation of today is the worst.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:17:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2018, 10:58:44 PM
I guess the equivalent to the Terminator would be movies like Dracula or Frankenstein from that era right? I think I would easily get a reference to those films (the films, not the books) even if I have never seen them.

But Frankenstein and Dracula are pieces of 19th century fiction. Their impact has had the time to reach well beyond the Hammer films. I think a closer analogy would be Western movies, a genre that was well past its prime when we were 20-something. Or some piece of trivia from the Blob: I know the existence of that movie, but I would be hard-pressed to say a single meaningful thing about it beyond a vague sense of the plot. Also, we gain these references as we age. I couldn't reference a single thing from, say, the Twilight Zone, back when I was 20. Add another 20 years of consuming media, tv and print, and I know the plot of many episodes, despite not having fully seen a single one. (Thank you, the Scary Door). 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:18:09 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 17, 2018, 11:16:06 PM
I know it's been said before, but this time it's true:  the young generation of today is the worst.

It's the children who are wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 17, 2018, 11:19:26 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:09:27 PM
If I, who grew up during the Terminator craze, have not felt the slightest desire to see these movies, I should not expect if from younger people who even lack the pretext of nostalgia.

As an aside, I have resolved not to change my deadpan jokes when I teach, and try to discern what references my students are able to pick up. Simpsons references are inevitably a bust. So are most action hero movie references (all those one-liners...). Still, I surprisingly got a reaction out of references from Back to the Future, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Bill & Ted (!?). There are also *still* 20-something fans of Monty Python. 

Well I have never seen any of the Terminator movies either but I would easily catch a reference. Because I live in this culture. Skynet? I mean is that really something so obscure you actually have to have seen the movies to get it? And, as Eddie said, those movies are still being made so kids who enjoy seeing movies would at least know about the series.

But how young can this person be who cares about unit wage costs anyway? Is that what the kids care about today?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:20:46 PM
See my point above about aging... ;)

It's also somewhat unsurprising that a forum made-up, by and large, of avowed nerds, would pick up references to sci-fi, or fantasy. Imagine instead a subfield of pop culture of 60-80 years ago, and for which you have no, or little interest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2018, 12:00:16 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:20:46 PM
See my point above about aging... ;)

Yeah fair enough. You pick up stuff.

On the other hand kids today get blasted with media and media references in ways that I never did. Movies are a good example, I just have no interest in movies generally. I very rarely see them. But after the internet has come about damn do I not know a shitload about movies despite the fact I very rarely watch them. So I don't know. They are very meme savvy and all that culture is is about referencing pop culture. Or at least they were when I graduated from college in 2014. I mean that year that stupid 'Too many cooks' video went viral and EVERYBODY was making jokes about it and what was that than a joke about TV tropes from decades before?

QuoteIt's also somewhat unsurprising that a forum made-up, by and large, of avowed nerds, would pick up references to sci-fi, or fantasy. Imagine instead a subfield of pop culture of 60-80 years ago, and for which you have no, or little interest.

I do have very little interest in Sci Fi, but thanks to you nerds and my wife I now know lots about it.

However we are talking about a major blockbuster film series, one that is ongoing as I see another film is coming out next year, not some obscure subfield of pop culture from the distant recesses of time. I rather suspect this woman is just a colossal nerd herself and completely into her obsessions, and probably in her early to mid 30s and so just a few years younger than me anyway, and just has no time for mainstream junk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 18, 2018, 12:42:30 AM
Quote from: ValmyWell I have never seen any of the Terminator movies either

WTF
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 18, 2018, 12:46:27 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:17:43 PM

But Frankenstein and Dracula are pieces of 19th century fiction. Their impact has had the time to reach well beyond the Hammer films.

I think that the popular image of Frankenstein and Dracula, at least in the US, still owes more to the Universal films of the 30s and 40s than to the Hammer films.  At a guess, about all most Americans know about the Hammer films is that a lot of them starred Christopher Lee, and often co-stared Peter Cushing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 18, 2018, 07:32:31 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 17, 2018, 10:29:25 PM
She doesn't know what Skynet is. So disappointed in that generation. :(

How familiar are you with popular movies of the 40s?

Ask me that question :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 18, 2018, 08:44:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2018, 11:19:26 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:09:27 PM
If I, who grew up during the Terminator craze, have not felt the slightest desire to see these movies, I should not expect if from younger people who even lack the pretext of nostalgia.

As an aside, I have resolved not to change my deadpan jokes when I teach, and try to discern what references my students are able to pick up. Simpsons references are inevitably a bust. So are most action hero movie references (all those one-liners...). Still, I surprisingly got a reaction out of references from Back to the Future, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Bill & Ted (!?). There are also *still* 20-something fans of Monty Python. 

Well I have never seen any of the Terminator movies either but I would easily catch a reference. Because I live in this culture. Skynet? I mean is that really something so obscure you actually have to have seen the movies to get it? And, as Eddie said, those movies are still being made so kids who enjoy seeing movies would at least know about the series.

But how young can this person be who cares about unit wage costs anyway? Is that what the kids care about today?

My 14 year old nephew barely fanthoms how I went to school without an ipad. I don't expect him to know about 80s movies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 18, 2018, 08:47:12 AM
No, but he should know some by the time he finishes college.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 18, 2018, 09:22:21 AM
Maybe but it won't be 100% penetration in the entire generation. I don't watch Horror movies, I wouldn't get any of those references, no matter the time period.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 18, 2018, 09:26:05 AM
My 10 year old son yells Terminator quotes to his friends when playing Fortnite.  He hasn't seen any of the movies, but apparently there is some Schwarzenegger meme that he and his buddies laugh about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2018, 09:29:04 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 18, 2018, 12:42:30 AM
Quote from: ValmyWell I have never seen any of the Terminator movies either

WTF

I was a small child when the first one came out and...well...the others just never interested me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2018, 09:30:26 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 18, 2018, 08:44:55 AM
My 14 year old nephew barely fanthoms how I went to school without an ipad. I don't expect him to know about 80s movies.

Oh? What does he use the iPad for?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 18, 2018, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 18, 2018, 09:26:05 AM
My 10 year old son ... hasn't seen any of the movies

WTF
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 18, 2018, 10:00:30 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:09:27 PM
There are also *still* 20-something fans of Monty Python.

I hear my older son and his peer group (20 somethings) making Python references.

My Son who is 19 and his peer group - "who is Monty Python?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 18, 2018, 10:05:39 AM
I'm playing the slow game in getting my kids into Python.  First they just liked how the intro song ended.  Now they love the Ministry of Silly Walks and Fish Slapping Dance.  I'm gonna continue with the wacky stuff and see how that goes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 18, 2018, 10:23:44 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2018, 09:30:26 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 18, 2018, 08:44:55 AM
My 14 year old nephew barely fanthoms how I went to school without an ipad. I don't expect him to know about 80s movies.

Oh? What does he use the iPad for?

I'll ask but He does 2 things, watch Netflix & research.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2018, 11:02:56 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 18, 2018, 10:23:44 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2018, 09:30:26 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 18, 2018, 08:44:55 AM
My 14 year old nephew barely fanthoms how I went to school without an ipad. I don't expect him to know about 80s movies.

Oh? What does he use the iPad for?

I'll ask but He does 2 things, watch Netflix & research.

If he watches Netflix then he will pick up 80s movies stuff just by it being parodied and referenced in other shows and movies. But, as Oex says, it may take a few decades of consuming stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 18, 2018, 11:10:55 AM
Netflix Canada doesn't many old time movies compare to the USA one but it's possible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 18, 2018, 03:02:52 PM
Someone shared this eyerollingly on Twitter:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dp0H4RaU8AAweLX.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 18, 2018, 03:07:41 PM
There's a point buried somewhere under all that vitriol.  Adults that go to Disney without kids are kinda weird.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 18, 2018, 03:09:55 PM
I already pity that person's kids.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2018, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 18, 2018, 03:07:41 PM
There's a point buried somewhere under all that vitriol.  Adults that go to Disney without kids are kinda weird.

Maybe but taking a three year old to Disney World is idiotic. I presume she has older children because otherwise WTF was she thinking? The kid will not even remember the trip. No wonder she had a miserable time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 18, 2018, 03:28:48 PM
I hope she doesn't harm her children. Ack.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2018, 03:29:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 18, 2018, 03:28:48 PM
I hope she doesn't harm her children. Ack.

I hope she was just exhausted and pissed off and lost her cool on Twitter and she is not normally that ragey. For the kid's sake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on October 18, 2018, 04:29:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 18, 2018, 10:05:39 AM
I'm playing the slow game in getting my kids into Python.  First they just liked how the intro song ended.  Now they love the Ministry of Silly Walks and Fish Slapping Dance.  I'm gonna continue with the wacky stuff and see how that goes.

Good man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on October 18, 2018, 06:52:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 18, 2018, 03:07:41 PM
There's a point buried somewhere under all that vitriol.  Adults that go to Disney without kids are kinda weird.
My sister and I paid for our parents and ourselves to go to Disney World this past January for a family trip/40th anniversary present of their honeymoon trip to Disney World.  No children involved in the picture and we all thoroughly enjoyed it.  There is all manner of stuff to do that is adult friendly if not adult oriented especially in EPCOT.  The families with little kids look like they're having hellish times and all for something that most likely the youngest of kids won't even remember.  Fuck that and give me another drink in my alcohol infused journey around the world, please! :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 18, 2018, 07:49:05 PM
My wife had not been to Disneyland as a kid and after a few years after we were married I took her on a surprise trip.  It was great fun.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on October 18, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You two are hated with a burning passion
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 18, 2018, 08:10:54 PM
I recall seeing some commercials in which Disney was pitching trips to Disneyland/Disneyworld to older couples whose children were already grown.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on October 18, 2018, 09:39:56 PM
Quote from: PDH on October 18, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
You two are hated with a burning passion
Hey now, neither CC nor myself are/were childless women!  We aren't technically the ones crazy rage lady hates with a burning passion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 20, 2018, 07:16:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44322789_2067127179976528_2926614324929626112_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a2181c0c326501148dd490de293c0f6b&oe=5C51D52D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2018, 07:27:42 AM
I guess Ice Cube doesn't talk to many Canadians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 20, 2018, 09:25:22 AM
What does that even mean?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2018, 10:55:33 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2018, 09:25:22 AM
What does that even mean?

A reference to people pledging to leave the country if Trump wins(or any other candidate, it's a common trope).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 20, 2018, 11:23:17 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 17, 2018, 11:17:43 PM
But Frankenstein and Dracula are pieces of 19th century fiction. Their impact has had the time to reach well beyond the Hammer films. I think a closer analogy would be Western movies, a genre that was well past its prime when we were 20-something. Or some piece of trivia from the Blob: I know the existence of that movie, but I would be hard-pressed to say a single meaningful thing about it beyond a vague sense of the plot. Also, we gain these references as we age. I couldn't reference a single thing from, say, the Twilight Zone, back when I was 20. Add another 20 years of consuming media, tv and print, and I know the plot of many episodes, despite not having fully seen a single one. (Thank you, the Scary Door).

Hammer films did better with Dracula than Frankenstein IMO. Thanks to Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing, vampire killer. :)
Btw, Twilight Zone was even remade in the '80s, both as a series and a movie, same goes for the Blob, but only as a movie since this was not a show.
Interestingly, lots of reruns around these parts still in the '80s for the Twilight Zone (original b&w), despite being part of the "mauvais genres" ;) or even Laurel and Hardy which I think is not very well-known besides cinephiles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 20, 2018, 06:36:55 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 20, 2018, 11:23:17 AM
Hammer films did better with Dracula than Frankenstein IMO. Thanks to Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing, vampire killer. :)

Well I disagree. Peter Cushing is Dr. Frankenstein more than he is Van Helsing. And Lee did play the monster in one movie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 20, 2018, 08:10:32 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2018, 10:55:33 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2018, 09:25:22 AM
What does that even mean?

A reference to people pledging to leave the country if Trump wins(or any other candidate, it's a common trope).

Ah, thank you for the explanation  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 20, 2018, 08:17:23 PM
It's also a somewhat recurring political conversation when you are a Canadian expat in the US...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 20, 2018, 08:21:36 PM
Why is Ice Cube so upset about people complaining about Trump?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 22, 2018, 08:04:18 AM
Cube is always upset that Eazy-E took his money.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 22, 2018, 08:55:43 AM
The irony is that Canadians have plenty of reasons to bitch about Trump ... unfortunately, his impact is not confined to his own miserable country.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 23, 2018, 08:51:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14708270_738587592961653_4449547729425913023_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c8ff417edb16b177a61a0cfd47e05315&oe=5C57DC6F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 23, 2018, 08:53:41 AM
Well actually the opposite is true. You can be heard around the world now without being censored. It was in the past that everything was watered down by gatekeepers.

Also why is that guy staring at me in that meme. Is that Keanu Reeves? What does he have to do with anything.

Your relatives just like pictures that say random things with celebrities on them for no reason?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 23, 2018, 09:00:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 23, 2018, 08:53:41 AM
Well actually the opposite is true. You can be heard around the world now without being censored. It was in the past that everything was watered down by gatekeepers.

Also why is that guy staring at me in that meme. Is that Keanu Reeves? What does he have to do with anything.

Your relatives just like pictures that say random things with celebrities on them for no reason?

(https://i.imgflip.com/1ya4we.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 23, 2018, 09:37:38 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 23, 2018, 09:00:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 23, 2018, 08:53:41 AM
Well actually the opposite is true. You can be heard around the world now without being censored. It was in the past that everything was watered down by gatekeepers.

Also why is that guy staring at me in that meme. Is that Keanu Reeves? What does he have to do with anything.

Your relatives just like pictures that say random things with celebrities on them for no reason?

(https://i.imgflip.com/1ya4we.jpg)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 23, 2018, 11:03:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 23, 2018, 08:53:41 AM
Well actually the opposite is true. You can be heard around the world now without being censored. It was in the past that everything was watered down by gatekeepers.

Also why is that guy staring at me in that meme. Is that Keanu Reeves? What does he have to do with anything.

Your relatives just like pictures that say random things with celebrities on them for no reason?

I think it's a generational thing. Kids love to meme everything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 23, 2018, 11:05:11 AM
Syt's relatives are of our generation though  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 23, 2018, 11:24:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 23, 2018, 11:05:11 AM
Syt's relatives are of our generation though  :P

My sisters are between 49 and 57.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on October 24, 2018, 10:18:34 PM
(https://scontent.fyyc3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44684503_699845073721968_7147733901702594560_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc3-1.fna&oh=0dc3777c3cd1afa966130d7a68303cc6&oe=5C43CE2D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 24, 2018, 10:20:35 PM
My body has no broccoli system. I guess broccoli must be bad for me :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 24, 2018, 11:06:35 PM
You have bronchi, close enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 26, 2018, 08:03:16 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44786350_10156445643636638_3575361958100074496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4bf9f920f6a93e94d8a3cc44f9f2416d&oe=5C531FFE)

My middle sister also pointed out that East Germans had pretty good border security, and maybe the U.S. could learn from them.


I didn't point out that the GDR was generally more concerned about people leaving the country and less about them coming in. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on October 26, 2018, 08:08:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 26, 2018, 08:03:16 AM
.....
My middle sister also pointed out that East Germans had pretty good border security, and maybe the U.S. could learn from them.

I didn't point out that the GDR was generally more concerned about people leaving the country and less about them coming in. :rolleyes:

Maybe the triumph of Trumpism will eventually result in waves of American refugees?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 26, 2018, 08:15:35 AM
It's not as if Republicans are tripping over themselves in order to do something about homeless children.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 26, 2018, 08:42:51 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 26, 2018, 08:03:16 AM
My middle sister also pointed out that East Germans had pretty good border security, and maybe the U.S. could learn from them.

I didn't point out that the GDR was generally more concerned about people leaving the country and less about them coming in. :rolleyes:

Yeah, not the best example to follow.  Plus, the guns and mines were all facing inward, not outward.

On the other hand, IIRC the East German government called the wall the antifaschistischer Schutzwall IIRC, which may either excite or confuse some of our fellow Languishites with antifa sympathies :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 26, 2018, 09:03:55 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 26, 2018, 08:42:51 AM
On the other hand, IIRC the East German government called the wall the antifaschistischer Schutzwall IIRC, which may either excite or confuse some of our fellow Languishites with antifa sympathies :P
I don't think many non-conservatives get fooled by self-assigned labels, from German Democratic Repbulic or otherwise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 26, 2018, 10:17:14 AM
From my niece's husband:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44805169_10158326000402925_6840417597125558272_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d7a83f8d2401c7bffcc378036edf95a1&oe=5C55582C)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43739042_10155812584708302_441478889491922944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c88b0cec811aa3ca11d8c7668bf2d798&oe=5C3DC6CB)

And also:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44825720_2221576908086139_3288023560756396032_n.png?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9182caaffe93b136e2d8455fd63fc63e&oe=5C41E713)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 26, 2018, 10:21:37 AM
Pablo from Fallujah, lol.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 26, 2018, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 26, 2018, 10:17:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43739042_10155812584708302_441478889491922944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c88b0cec811aa3ca11d8c7668bf2d798&oe=5C3DC6CB)

Making up random shit and pretending it is a careful analysis of the facts? How new and refreshing.

I don't get the meme. Do they just randomly pick pictures with a dart board when they make these things?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 26, 2018, 10:54:46 AM
Err, that one doesn't have a picture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 26, 2018, 10:57:25 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 26, 2018, 10:54:46 AM
Err, that one doesn't have a picture.

And it isn't a meme. So I was not talking about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 26, 2018, 11:00:14 AM
The kid looks skeptical. That's all they needed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 26, 2018, 11:02:49 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 26, 2018, 11:00:14 AM
The kid looks skeptical. That's all they needed.

I guess. Beats having Ice Cube or some celebrity randomly put in there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 26, 2018, 02:30:55 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44667495_10157319436936554_580270598748372992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=cb4d368ad6199cca27e9cccaf27d2543&oe=5C3F8E5B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2018, 02:50:29 AM
My sister, the nurse, everybody.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22687643_1514443248642747_6668011854966742688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dc7ab54da587039b9a8dea97afdc5211&oe=5C7D7045)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on October 31, 2018, 03:09:43 AM
Needs more comic sans
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 31, 2018, 07:27:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2018, 02:50:29 AM
My sister, the nurse, everybody.

She is promoting Fudenberg, a proven fraud, as a source?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 31, 2018, 07:48:44 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 31, 2018, 07:27:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2018, 02:50:29 AM
My sister, the nurse, everybody.

She is promoting Fudenberg, a proven fraud, as a source?

Are you new to this thread?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 31, 2018, 09:45:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2018, 02:50:29 AM
My sister, the nurse, everybody.

JHC.  Influenza kills tens of thousands of Americans every year.  80,000 last year. Spreading this horseshit puts the lives of thousands at risk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 31, 2018, 10:33:16 AM
I think your sister has crossed the line from merely stupid to outright dangerous if she's promoting anti-vaccination garbage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2018, 10:33:58 AM
Oh, it's a repost from last year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2018, 10:34:46 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45163815_2152951681384585_6746605615776268288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=91d97933d247bf78769367f77f799c4b&oe=5C453F0D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 31, 2018, 11:01:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 31, 2018, 09:45:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2018, 02:50:29 AM
My sister, the nurse, everybody.

JHC.  Influenza kills tens of thousands of Americans every year.  80,000 last year. Spreading this horseshit puts the lives of thousands at risk.

Yeah.  When it comes to vaccination, I'm not a big fan of flu vaccines, because there are so many varieties of influenza, and you can only get vaccinated against a few, but at least you can protect against those few.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 31, 2018, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: dps on October 31, 2018, 11:01:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 31, 2018, 09:45:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2018, 02:50:29 AM
My sister, the nurse, everybody.

JHC.  Influenza kills tens of thousands of Americans every year.  80,000 last year. Spreading this horseshit puts the lives of thousands at risk.

Yeah.  When it comes to vaccination, I'm not a big fan of flu vaccines, because there are so many varieties of influenza, and you can only get vaccinated against a few, but at least you can protect against those few.

Even if they guess wrong that year, you still have some protection for when that strain does come around. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on October 31, 2018, 11:25:47 AM
But it makes your arm sore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 31, 2018, 11:44:04 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 31, 2018, 11:25:47 AM
But it makes your arm sore.

Get a bit more muscle and you should be fine for the next time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 31, 2018, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2018, 10:34:46 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45163815_2152951681384585_6746605615776268288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=91d97933d247bf78769367f77f799c4b&oe=5C453F0D)

Which Democratic politician did this exactly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 31, 2018, 12:01:54 PM
I think, its an Ordinary Person, made especially EDGY by choosing the pic of a black woman. Just driving home the point of the DEPTHS the Democrats have fallen to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 31, 2018, 12:04:04 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 31, 2018, 12:01:54 PM
I think, its an Ordinary Person, made especially EDGY by choosing the pic of a black woman. Just driving home the point of the DEPTHS the Democrats have fallen to.

I meant which Democratic politician was calling for assassinations and physical assaults. Because if it is just some person on the internet I am pretty sure I could find random people saying things about Obama to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 31, 2018, 03:12:32 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 31, 2018, 12:01:54 PM
I think, its an Ordinary Person, made especially EDGY by choosing the pic of a black woman. Just driving home the point of the DEPTHS the Democrats have fallen to.
looking at the grammar, I think it's a russian bot.  They are very strong on internet memes like these.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 31, 2018, 03:13:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 31, 2018, 12:04:04 PMBecause if it is just some person on the internet I am pretty sure I could find random people saying things about Obama to.
but that doesn't count.  It was an act of resistance.
...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 01, 2018, 12:49:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2018, 10:34:46 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45163815_2152951681384585_6746605615776268288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=91d97933d247bf78769367f77f799c4b&oe=5C453F0D)


2009
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 01, 2018, 03:45:59 AM
The pic appears to have been stolen from the front cover of a book about school leaders :

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2078.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 01, 2018, 03:57:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44891559_539035623212929_8671761557304115200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=93dd5598692ab3b340b210cd783d94c4&oe=5C49B98D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 01, 2018, 05:52:06 AM
I don't understand why, given that we learn it in school, it is so hard to recall that our two main parties have shifted their policies in many ways from their stances in the past.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 01, 2018, 05:54:13 AM
Clearly you've been brainwashed by the liberal media. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 01, 2018, 07:44:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 01, 2018, 05:52:06 AM
I don't understand why, given that we learn it in school, it is so hard to recall that our two main parties have shifted their policies in many ways from their stances in the past.

We've spotted the source of the brainwashing!

Clearly, teaching stuff in school must end.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 01, 2018, 07:47:17 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 01, 2018, 03:57:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44891559_539035623212929_8671761557304115200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=93dd5598692ab3b340b210cd783d94c4&oe=5C49B98D)

No, I don't think the people who did those things are racists. Any of them alive today?

Why is Jeff Foxworthy there? :hmm:

Oh I see, 'you might be a redneck'. Lame.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2018, 07:49:32 AM
The comment is formatted like one of his "you might be a redneck" jokes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 01, 2018, 10:06:33 AM
How exactly did Republicans "pass the Civil Rights Act"?  They did vote in favour of it, but it was a a Democratic bill that was supported by President Kennedy, and then Johnson.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 01, 2018, 10:11:54 AM
The Republican southern strategy happened in our lifetime (well some of us  :)).  But facts don't seem to matter anymore.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 01, 2018, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: Barrister on November 01, 2018, 10:06:33 AM
How exactly did Republicans "pass the Civil Rights Act"?  They did vote in favour of it, but it was a a Democratic bill that was supported by President Kennedy, and then Johnson.



Barry Goldwater voted against it. The implications of that, and what followed, are pretty significant.

Notice that Jeff Foxworthy did not mention anything AFTER the Civil Rights Act in his quote -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 01, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Barrister on November 01, 2018, 10:06:33 AM
How exactly did Republicans "pass the Civil Rights Act"?  They did vote in favour of it, but it was a a Democratic bill that was supported by President Kennedy, and then Johnson.

By voting for it? They also voted in greater percentages than Democrats in support of the bill.

Not that the CRA has anything to do with modern Republicans being racist or not. Are there even any people in Congress left that had the option to vote on it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 01, 2018, 11:39:50 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 01, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
By voting for it? They also voted in greater percentages than Democrats in support of the bill.

Well yeah. But it was a weird vote.

The Republicans were all over the place. Republicans from New York, California, Arizona, Wyoming, North Dakota, and all sorts of weird places voted nay.

And while there were not just a ton of Republicans in the southern states, only the ones from Maryland and Missouri didn't vote against it. I mean in Texas a few Democrats voted for it, none of the Republicans did.

I wasn't around back then so I have no idea why, it does kind of look like the Republicans in the South were already trying to look more conservative than the Democrats.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 01, 2018, 01:03:03 PM
Odd that nothing is mentioned past 1965.  Was the issue of race solved that year?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 01, 2018, 01:07:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 01, 2018, 01:03:03 PM
Odd that nothing is mentioned past 1965.  Was the issue of race solved that year?

Yes. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2018, 01:08:11 PM
What legal changes have been made since then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 01, 2018, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2018, 01:08:11 PM
What legal changes have been made since then?

I don't know. Well back in 1965 in Georgia interracial marriage was illegal. Is that still true? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2018, 01:16:36 PM
Weren't those laws abolished due to Civil Rights Act?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 01, 2018, 01:17:34 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2018, 01:08:11 PM
What legal changes have been made since then?


Civil Rights act of 1968 (this is a touchy one since Donald Trump was sued for violating it.  Twice).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2018, 01:20:54 PM
Ok. Was there a significant shift between 1965 and 1968? Also the Foxworthy meme doesn't specify.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 01, 2018, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2018, 01:20:54 PM
Ok. Was there a significant shift between 1965 and 1968? Also the Foxworthy meme doesn't specify.


Civil Rights act of 1991.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 01, 2018, 03:33:07 PM
I would have assumed he was referring to the Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875, since:
(a) they were written, sponsored and passed by Republicans, in the first instance over the veto of a Democratic President, and
(b) it fits chronologically.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2018, 04:27:02 PM
Wasn't he technically a Republican, having run on a ticket with Lincoln?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 01, 2018, 04:34:31 PM
I think technically both ran on a unity ticket.  I don't think Johnson ever left the Democrats.  He ran as a Democrat in 1868.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 01, 2018, 04:42:20 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45122609_794780234186706_8661180093621600256_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6693e9c309ee4ffd38efcaad4736a349&oe=5C4A3912)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 01, 2018, 04:44:06 PM
Time?  Your meme generator needs to get out more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 01, 2018, 04:53:39 PM
Comment from my niece's husband, an Army Sgt: "If they try'n charge the border there'll be a lot of dead spics that day."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 01, 2018, 05:03:29 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 01, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
Are there even any people in Congress left that had the option to vote on it?

Nope.  No one in Congress right now was there before the mid-70s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 01, 2018, 05:15:58 PM
Your sister, she was like that growing up in Europe or she changed once in the US?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 01, 2018, 05:19:43 PM
She was actually pretty liberal/pronounced non-patriotic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 01, 2018, 06:49:49 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 01, 2018, 04:53:39 PM
Comment from my niece's husband, an Army Sgt: "If they try'n charge the border there'll be a lot of dead spics that day."

Yikes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on November 01, 2018, 07:03:17 PM
It's utterly unsurprising. There is a real gleeful desire on the sociopathic right to unleash lethal violence upon others - upon liberals coming to take your guns, upon Democrat traitors, upon migrants crossing the border, upon the press which peddles fake news against the beloved president.

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/1/18053638/cnn-carried-donald-trump-immigration-white-house

But yeah, the lack of civility of Maxine Waters - that's the big problem. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2018, 03:31:37 AM
You know, every once in a while my reaction to the crap my family posts still goes beyond eye rolling and into "Whoa WTF?"

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45173287_272533183406757_6027521188689870848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ebc0e6a2820304071fb50adb3fb30696&oe=5C4878A4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2018, 03:32:58 AM
The link in that image is .... yikes.
https://o4anews.com/

Though to be fair it was shared from this Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pg/LionsAreKing2020/posts/?ref=page_internal
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 02, 2018, 04:18:40 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2018, 01:16:36 PM
Weren't those laws abolished due to Civil Rights Act?

Alabama only got that removed from their laws in 2000.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 05:02:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 02, 2018, 03:31:37 AM
You know, every once in a while my reaction to the crap my family posts still goes beyond eye rolling and into "Whoa WTF?"

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45173287_272533183406757_6027521188689870848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ebc0e6a2820304071fb50adb3fb30696&oe=5C4878A4)


WTF
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 02, 2018, 06:20:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 01, 2018, 05:19:43 PM
She was actually pretty liberal/pronounced non-patriotic.

Germans can't do moderation.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2018, 06:38:04 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 02, 2018, 03:31:37 AM
You know, every once in a while my reaction to the crap my family posts still goes beyond eye rolling and into "Whoa WTF?"

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45173287_272533183406757_6027521188689870848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ebc0e6a2820304071fb50adb3fb30696&oe=5C4878A4)

So edgy.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 07:39:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 02, 2018, 03:31:37 AM
You know, every once in a while my reaction to the crap my family posts still goes beyond eye rolling and into "Whoa WTF?"

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45173287_272533183406757_6027521188689870848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ebc0e6a2820304071fb50adb3fb30696&oe=5C4878A4)

Ummm...yeah I heard this stuff back when he was President. Somehow he created racism in the United States which did not exist back in 2008.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 07:43:17 AM
Since they showed Blazing Saddles, I think "salt of the earth" America totally went like this in 2008:

(https://i.imgur.com/yH1iuzP.gif)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2018, 07:59:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 07:39:25 AM
Ummm...yeah I heard this stuff back when he was President. Somehow he created racism in the United States which did not exist back in 2008.

It's not only that, but it's blaming racism on the ones being discriminated against. It's like saying, "Well, if the Jews didn't control the banks and finances, and Hollywood, and [insert list here], maybe people would like them better."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 08:24:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 02, 2018, 07:59:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 07:39:25 AM
Ummm...yeah I heard this stuff back when he was President. Somehow he created racism in the United States which did not exist back in 2008.

It's not only that, but it's blaming racism on the ones being discriminated against. It's like saying, "Well, if the Jews didn't control the banks and finances, and Hollywood, and [insert list here], maybe people would like them better."

Well and it was not like Obama was some sort of black nationalist, he was mixed race and was raised by white people. His VP was white. Much of his cabinet was white, and way beyond any sort of tokenism. It doesn't make any sense.

I mean I can understand how somebody might not like Obama and his policies, just like I can get why somebody would be against illegal immigration. But it is the weird passionate extent both of those positions by some and the sort of language used that...well...gives me pause.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 08:26:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 08:24:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 02, 2018, 07:59:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 07:39:25 AM
Ummm...yeah I heard this stuff back when he was President. Somehow he created racism in the United States which did not exist back in 2008.

It's not only that, but it's blaming racism on the ones being discriminated against. It's like saying, "Well, if the Jews didn't control the banks and finances, and Hollywood, and [insert list here], maybe people would like them better."

Well and it was not like Obama was some sort of black nationalist, he was mixed race and was raised by white people. His VP was white. Much of his cabinet was white, and way beyond any sort of tokenism. It doesn't make any sense.

I mean I can understand how somebody might not like Obama and his policies, just like I can get why somebody would be against illegal immigration. But it is the weird passionate extent both of those positions went and the sort of language used that...well...gives me pause.

There's nothing weird about it, it's called racism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 02, 2018, 08:28:00 AM
Syt, can you pinpoint your sisters' descent into madness to some particular moment or issue? You mentioned that they were not like that when they lived back in Germany.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 08:28:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 08:26:21 AM
There's nothing weird about it, it's called racism.

I know. But I try to give people the benefit of the doubt that they are not hatefilled monsters with hearts full of evil. I mean it is not a very high bar but some people fail to clear it, like Syt's relatives. I would think Germans would be more sensitive to that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 08:34:39 AM
Quote from: The Larch on November 02, 2018, 08:28:00 AM
Syt, can you pinpoint your sisters' descent into madness to some particular moment or issue? You mentioned that they were not like that when they lived back in Germany.

Without knowing any details I'd assume frustration from failed dreams and ambitions and resulting bitterness. Better people can recognise those feelings as such and wallow in silent self-loathing, others blame the world for all of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 02, 2018, 08:38:34 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 08:34:39 AM
Quote from: The Larch on November 02, 2018, 08:28:00 AM
Syt, can you pinpoint your sisters' descent into madness to some particular moment or issue? You mentioned that they were not like that when they lived back in Germany.

Without knowing any details I'd assume frustration from failed dreams and ambitions and resulting bitterness. Better people can recognise those feelings as such and wallow in silent self-loathing, others blame the world for all of it.

I blame this board!  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2018, 08:40:21 AM
Quote from: The Larch on November 02, 2018, 08:28:00 AM
Syt, can you pinpoint your sisters' descent into madness to some particular moment or issue? You mentioned that they were not like that when they lived back in Germany.

May have been there for a while, latently, and got triggered? No idea. She lived in El Paso for three years where she "discovered" her dislike of Hispanic (nobody speaks English here!), and a few years in North Carolina, where she discovered a dislike of "entitled" blacks.

Also, from my niece's husband:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45220833_2226112744299222_2058627685248139264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=58cb52ce0c646181613493b4ae5bb7f7&oe=5C4BDAC3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 08:45:05 AM
See it is not even funny or shocking. It is just really lame. And racist and evil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 08:46:50 AM
BTW where did Trump take the rock-throwing thing from? Footage from Gaza?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 08:50:57 AM
And yeah this is just disgusting.

I mean, you don't want to let people with no legal right to enter into your country? Fine. Probably you have a shitty reason for it but I agree with Valmy: change shitty laws, not just ignore them.

But welcoming the thought of gunning down civilians who want to enter and live in your country peacefully? The fuck.

I guess tho they convince themselves its a band of arab terrorists and latin gangsters. Armed to the teeth, cleverly trying to get through the border by... throwing rocks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2018, 08:55:44 AM
Reminder, he's in the Army. I think he's a mechanic for helicopters or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 08:46:50 AM
BTW where did Trump take the rock-throwing thing from? Footage from Gaza?

I think I saw footage of part of the caravan throwing rocks at one of the border crossings between Guatemala and Mexico (?) when they weren't allowed to pass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 09:00:37 AM
If only there was someway to deal with unruly civilians short of live ammunition  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:01:33 AM
Throw rocks back at them?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:01:33 AM
Throw rocks back at them?

Really? You are going to defend this?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:01:33 AM
Throw rocks back at them?

So maybe death by instant execution should be the punishment for every single crime since there is no non-lethal way to deal with them :lol:

Come on dude.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on November 02, 2018, 09:16:03 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 08:50:57 AM
And yeah this is just disgusting.

I mean, you don't want to let people with no legal right to enter into your country? Fine. Probably you have a shitty reason for it but I agree with Valmy: change shitty laws, not just ignore them.

But welcoming the thought of gunning down civilians who want to enter and live in your country peacefully? The fuck.

I guess tho they convince themselves its a band of arab terrorists and latin gangsters. Armed to the teeth, cleverly trying to get through the border by... throwing rocks.

Evil lurks in the hearts of all people, sad as it may be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:58:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:01:33 AM
Throw rocks back at them?

Really? You are going to defend this?

It was a joke.  FFS, lighten up people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 10:05:18 AM
It was not funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 02, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:58:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:01:33 AM
Throw rocks back at them?

Really? You are going to defend this?

It was a joke.  FFS, lighten up people.

It was not funny, and hardly the time to be making a joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2018, 10:23:37 AM
What's wrong with the timing?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 02, 2018, 10:24:50 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2018, 10:23:37 AM
What's wrong with the timing?
we're changing time this week-end.  No time for jokes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 02, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 08:46:50 AM
BTW where did Trump take the rock-throwing thing from? Footage from Gaza?

I think I saw footage of part of the caravan throwing rocks at one of the border crossings between Guatemala and Mexico (?) when they weren't allowed to pass.

There is a second, smaller group that clashed with Mexican police at the border a couple days ago.  AFAIK the original "caravan" crossed peacefully and there have been no violent incidents I've seen reported.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2018, 10:41:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:58:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:01:33 AM
Throw rocks back at them?

Really? You are going to defend this?

It was a joke.  FFS, lighten up people.

Damn it. It is hard to tell these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 02, 2018, 10:41:56 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2018, 10:23:37 AM
What's wrong with the timing?

Nothing, if you care little about the fact that your President is leading a bunch of white nationalists to think that killing people is a great idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2018, 11:20:35 AM
Tbh I put little stock in what my President says. I expect this caravan will be processed orderly and peacefully.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 02, 2018, 01:02:46 PM
Rock throwers were pretty boneheaded.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 02, 2018, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 02, 2018, 10:41:56 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2018, 10:23:37 AM
What's wrong with the timing?

Nothing, if you care little about the fact that your President is leading a bunch of white nationalists to think that killing people is a great idea.

I think when the President says stupid stuff, that's a great time to make a joke about it.  Helps when the joke is actually funny, of course.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 02, 2018, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 02, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:58:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:01:33 AM
Throw rocks back at them?

Really? You are going to defend this?

It was a joke.  FFS, lighten up people.

It was not funny, and hardly the time to be making a joke.


*Breaking News:  Hijackers steal school bus.  50 children are missing.*

Derspeiss: "Hey, let's tell rape jokes!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 02, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Of course, it is just a joke! Haha! Jokey joke jokes!

He doesn't actually support Trump, gosh no! Its just funny to troll liberals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 02, 2018, 07:17:03 PM
Quote from: dps on November 02, 2018, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 02, 2018, 10:41:56 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2018, 10:23:37 AM
What's wrong with the timing?

Nothing, if you care little about the fact that your President is leading a bunch of white nationalists to think that killing people is a great idea.

I think when the President says stupid stuff, that's a great time to make a joke about it.  Helps when the joke is actually funny, of course.

I agree, a humour is a great tool to criticize.  Not what Spicey does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 02, 2018, 11:27:08 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 02, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Of course, it is just a joke! Haha! Jokey joke jokes!

He doesn't actually support Trump, gosh no! Its just funny to troll liberals.

Gotta own them libs. That's more important than policy to the idiot Right these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 03, 2018, 06:53:22 AM
QuoteVoice of Europe
September 20 ·
Poland is one of the safest countries because it didn't accept illegal migration.

"Poland is a smart country that puts its people first!!"

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/voice-of-europe/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 03, 2018, 10:26:15 AM
Poland was the country with most immigration in the EU in 2017. Mostly Ukrainians, but more than 600.000 IIRC. I guess it was legal immigration though. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 03, 2018, 11:24:16 AM
Quote from: Zanza on November 03, 2018, 10:26:15 AM
Poland was the country with most immigration in the EU in 2017. Mostly Ukrainians, but more than 600.000 IIRC. I guess it was legal immigration though.

I think the truly decisive factor there is skin colour. Much harder to induce fear with pictures of white people moving in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2018, 04:26:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45510360_1978616518887744_271592622034780160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f22a8c8f9b8d5e5950d1c93f2aa0c1fa&oe=5C76E0D3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 05, 2018, 05:54:02 AM
You know, when a few thousand people marched/tried to get into Hungary, it was still fucking disgusting to have reactions like Syt's sister, but at least it was about those people trying to get in to a tightly packed problem-ridden little country (ignoring the fact that they had no intention of staying).

But to be able to make a good number of people lose their shit in the richest country on Earth that spans a bloody continent, over a few thousands of woud-be migrants, is really, really shows humanity in a bad light.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 05, 2018, 07:01:35 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 03, 2018, 11:24:16 AM
Quote from: Zanza on November 03, 2018, 10:26:15 AM
Poland was the country with most immigration in the EU in 2017. Mostly Ukrainians, but more than 600.000 IIRC. I guess it was legal immigration though.

I think the truly decisive factor there is skin colour. Much harder to induce fear with pictures of white people moving in.

Given all the bad blood between Poles and Ukrainians till WWII, that's actually impressive.
Can't blame the Poles for trying to choose their immigration though, lest they want a French banlieue situation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2018, 11:42:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45481993_273685596624849_3606314168199675904_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a4405ff22a8e699f93a29e44ec27a707&oe=5C78963B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 11:44:45 AM
I don't see how this caravan benefits anybody but Trump and the Republicans. How does this benefit us? Because we want to create a huge wedge issue to get people to vote Republican? Because we want to energize the Republican base so they can get out and beat us?

This conspiracy theory makes no sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 05, 2018, 11:45:02 AM
Yeah, one wonders why people think there is a Jewish anti Trump conspiracy behind this.  If there is a funder, it is much more likely to be the Koch brothers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on November 05, 2018, 11:46:11 AM
Poor people can't afford to be refugees.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2018, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 11:44:45 AM
I don't see how this caravan benefits anybody but Trump and the Republicans. How does this benefit us? Because we want to create a huge wedge issue to get people to vote Republican? Because we want to energize the Republican base so they can get out and beat us?

This conspiracy theory makes no sense.

Somethingsomethingwhitegenocide? My sister hasn't dropped to that level yet, but I feel we're heading there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on November 05, 2018, 11:49:03 AM
The other part is that the caravan is still a long way away.  What kind of conspiracy would organize an event that wouldn't even peak until a month after the election you are trying to influence?

The only reason this is an issue is because the right has made it one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 05, 2018, 11:49:16 AM
Quote from: Maximus on November 05, 2018, 11:46:11 AM
Poor people can't afford to be refugees.

Someone must be paying them to walk.  Why else would they pass up all those airmiles if they flew direct?  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2018, 11:49:48 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 05, 2018, 11:49:16 AM
Quote from: Maximus on November 05, 2018, 11:46:11 AM
Poor people can't afford to be refugees.

Someone must be paying them to walk.  Why else would they pass up all those airmiles if they flew direct?  :D
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 05, 2018, 12:05:30 PM
Quote from: Maximus on November 05, 2018, 11:46:11 AM
Poor people can't afford to be refugees.

:lol: Yeah that was a key argument during the "migrant crisis" in Hungary as well.

"Look, they have CELL PHONES!" "They have decent clothes!"

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 05, 2018, 12:07:39 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 05, 2018, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 11:44:45 AM
I don't see how this caravan benefits anybody but Trump and the Republicans. How does this benefit us? Because we want to create a huge wedge issue to get people to vote Republican? Because we want to energize the Republican base so they can get out and beat us?

This conspiracy theory makes no sense.

Somethingsomethingwhitegenocide? My sister hasn't dropped to that level yet, but I feel we're heading there.

Well yes, if you could understand Hungarian you'd know from the glorious government that it is Soros and the people behind him's plan to eradicate the very fabric of European society (Christinaity, family, other non gay stuff) by overruning with a Muslim horde.

I am sure that's the American Soros Plan, just with the regional brown people available.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:08:13 PM
I would be shocked it even one Democratic candidate is using this caravan in their campaign unless they are doing damage control.

Or unless they are one of those ultra-conservative Democrats trying to out-conservative their opponent but I don't think we have too many of those left.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 05, 2018, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 05, 2018, 11:45:02 AM
Yeah, one wonders why people think there is a Jewish anti Trump conspiracy behind this.  If there is a funder, it is much more likely to be the Koch brothers.

Yeah that kinda' shows the last ounce of rationality is now way out of this thing. What kind of evil mastermind would find this way of unleashing coloured hordes on unsuspecting Americans? By having a painfully slow and long march through half the continent, well announced and documented.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:09:36 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2018, 12:07:39 PM
Well yes, if you could understand Hungarian you'd know from the glorious government that it is Soros and the people behind him's plan to eradicate the very fabric of European society (Christinaity, family, other non gay stuff) by overruning with a Muslim horde.

I am sure that's the American Soros Plan, just with the regional brown people available.

Well then the joke is on him since the Muslim immigrants and much more socially conservative than Europeans...well ok maybe just the Western Europeans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2018, 12:10:59 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45479930_10214788480123212_7783473887114690560_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=654c1b1c5bb7d99c98da6f8ffdb293e2&oe=5C6FEF90)

Everybody knows there's no checks at the border.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2018, 12:12:48 PM
I think one of the "rationales" for Democrats supposedly sponsoring these caravans is because these people and their families allegedly will then vote Democrat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 05, 2018, 12:15:44 PM
Hey, meme guy, if your ilk wasn't constantly shitting yourselves about terrorism, we wouldn't have to deal with those airport checks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:17:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 05, 2018, 12:12:48 PM
I think one of the "rationales" for Democrats supposedly sponsoring these caravans is because these people and their families allegedly will then vote Democrat.

Doubtful. Immigrants, even after they become citizens, do not vote in large percentages.

I mean if we were all about maximizing the number of immigrants than our policies when we have actually been in power have been counter-productive. Obama rigorously enforced the immigration laws. Something which he got zero credit for for some reason from that crowd.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:20:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 05, 2018, 12:10:59 PM
Everybody knows there's no checks at the border.  :rolleyes:

What source is declaring this caravan ok and a fine way to immigrate to the United States?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2018, 12:20:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:17:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 05, 2018, 12:12:48 PM
I think one of the "rationales" for Democrats supposedly sponsoring these caravans is because these people and their families allegedly will then vote Democrat.

Doubtful. Immigrants, even after they become citizens, do not vote in large percentages.

I mean if we were all about maximizing the number of immigrants than our policies when we have actually been in power have been counter-productive. Obama rigorously enforced the immigration laws. Something which he got zero credit for for some reason from that crowd.

Well, he made a key mistake by being black.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 05, 2018, 12:37:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 02, 2018, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 02, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:58:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 02, 2018, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 02, 2018, 09:01:33 AM
Throw rocks back at them?

Really? You are going to defend this?

It was a joke.  FFS, lighten up people.

It was not funny, and hardly the time to be making a joke.


*Breaking News:  Hijackers steal school bus.  50 children are missing.*

Derspeiss: "Hey, let's tell rape jokes!"

I don't get the equivalency there.  I was *joking* about throwing rocks back at people who would throw rocks at our border security and customs personnel and you guys lose your shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 05, 2018, 12:37:31 PM

I don't get the equivalency there.  I was *joking* about throwing rocks back at people who would throw rocks at our border security and customs personnel and you guys lose your shit.

Explain the joke to me then. The point seemed to be that there was no non-lethal way to deal with the problem and you were lampooning and mocking the very idea. That is what the context suggested so that is why I reacted like I did. But I was clearly wrong. So...what was the joke? I don't get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 05, 2018, 12:47:53 PM
You are being dishonest Valmy. You know what the joke is, you just don't think it's funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 05, 2018, 12:57:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:17:38 PM
Doubtful. Immigrants, even after they become citizens, do not vote in large percentages.



Do you have a source for that?  I thought the opposite was true, but in thinking it over, I realize I don't have any stats to back it up, it was just my assumption.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 05, 2018, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 05, 2018, 12:37:31 PM

I don't get the equivalency there.  I was *joking* about throwing rocks back at people who would throw rocks at our border security and customs personnel and you guys lose your shit.

Explain the joke to me then. The point seemed to be that there was no non-lethal way to deal with the problem and you were lampooning and mocking the very idea. That is what the context suggested so that is why I reacted like I did. But I was clearly wrong. So...what was the joke? I don't get it.

I was JOKINGLY suggesting throwing rocks as the non-lethal way of dealing with rock-throwers.  I was not claiming there wasn't a non-lethal way to deal with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: dps on November 05, 2018, 12:57:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:17:38 PM
Doubtful. Immigrants, even after they become citizens, do not vote in large percentages.



Do you have a source for that?  I thought the opposite was true, but in thinking it over, I realize I don't have any stats to back it up, it was just my assumption.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2016/11/immigrant_votingin.html

(https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/newsroom/blogs/2016/11/immigrant_voting/fig03-voting-by-generational-status.jpg)

Only 62% are even registered to vote.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 05, 2018, 01:02:36 PM
My immigrant wife votes in every election :)




*That* was a serious post.  Not a joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 01:02:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 05, 2018, 12:59:31 PM
I was JOKINGLY suggesting throwing rocks as the non-lethal way of dealing with rock-throwers.

Ok. Good one.

QuoteI was not claiming there wasn't a non-lethal way to deal with it.

Ok but surely you can see what I just posted before you and why I took it that way. My apologies for not getting it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 05, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
Well, huh.  My assumption had been that if you're a legal permanent resident, one of the main reasons to take out citizenship would be to get voting rights.

Wait, doesn't first-generation immigrants include those who haven't gotten their citizenship, at least not yet?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 05, 2018, 01:22:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 12:09:36 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2018, 12:07:39 PM
Well yes, if you could understand Hungarian you'd know from the glorious government that it is Soros and the people behind him's plan to eradicate the very fabric of European society (Christinaity, family, other non gay stuff) by overruning with a Muslim horde.

I am sure that's the American Soros Plan, just with the regional brown people available.

Well then the joke is on him since the Muslim immigrants and much more socially conservative than Europeans...well ok maybe just the Western Europeans.

This is true, but they are single-issue voters, and when they vote, important national elections mosly, they vote consistently for pro unchecked immigration and identity politics parties i.e the left, so voting for parties wanting to limit, select or even stop immigration right is impossible. Of course, no problem to vote for islamists in the old country, such as in Turkey and Tunisia, even beyond the pale of the far right in Europe, while at the same time voting against whoever is not for unchecked immigration and for an embrace of identity politics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 01:36:00 PM
Quote from: dps on November 05, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
Well, huh.  My assumption had been that if you're a legal permanent resident, one of the main reasons to take out citizenship would be to get voting rights.

Wait, doesn't first-generation immigrants include those who haven't gotten their citizenship, at least not yet?

In this particular graph it is a reflection of 'potential voters' so under 18s and non-citizens do not count.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 01:44:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 05, 2018, 01:02:36 PM
My immigrant wife votes in every election :)




*That* was a serious post.  Not a joke.

Yet another instance of Soros' plan for Democratic victory failing :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 05, 2018, 02:31:18 PM
Speaking of which, she and I get to have a voting date tomorrow.  We vote and then go have a nice breakfast before work :wub:

Then she takes a half-day off to go shoe shopping.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2018, 02:32:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 05, 2018, 02:31:18 PM
Speaking of which, she and I get to have a voting date tomorrow.  We vote and then go have a nice breakfast before work :wub:

Then she takes a half-day off to go shoe shopping.

Awwwww how very civic and yet romantic at the same time :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 11, 2018, 11:35:55 AM
QuoteDan Shea
April 6, 2016 · McGregor, FL, United States
From a Florida ER doctor:
Today I had a 25-year old with 8 kids - that's right 8, all Illegal Anchor Babies and she had the nicest nails, cell phone, hand bag, clothing, etc. She makes about $1,500 monthly for each; you do the math. I used to say, "We are the dumbest nation on earth," Now I must say and sadly admit: WE are the dumbest people on earth (that includes ME) For we Elected the Idiot Ideologues who have passed the Bills that allow this.
Sorry, but we need a Revolution, If the Illegal Immigrant is over 65, they can apply for SSI and Medicaid and get more than a woman on Social Security, who worked from 1944 until 2004. She is only getting $791 per month because she was born in 1924 and there's a 'catch 22' (notch) for her. It is interesting that the Federal Government provides a single refugee with a monthly allowance of $1,890. Each can also obtain an additional $580 in Social Assistance, for a total of $2,470 a month. This compares to a single pensioner, who after contributing to the growth and development of America for 40 to 50 years, can only receive a monthly maximum of $1,012 in Old Age Pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement.
Maybe our Pensioners should apply as Refugees! Consider sending this to all your American friends, so we can all be ticked off and maybe get the Refugees cut back to $1,012 and the Pensioners up to $2,470. Then we can enjoy some of the money we were forced to submit to the Government over the last 40 or 50 or 60 years.
PLEASE SHOW THIS TO EVERY AMERICAN TAXPAYER YOU KNOW



(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45908002_2261102447440991_4066348141044039680_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=647c598dcfaf1107606b40b8955ae39f&oe=5C84ECD2)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45702495_188746708713518_101158875096416256_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e2aec5620db36ca03cb7b353882143cf&oe=5C808C99)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 11, 2018, 11:54:11 AM
That sounds like a very cruel ER doc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 11, 2018, 04:56:36 PM
Quote
Mark Burchett
November 9 at 9:52 AM

As of 9/30/18, Broward County Florida had 1,167,982 Registered voters.
They turned in 1,284,780 Ballots. THAT'S 110% Participation
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 11, 2018, 06:17:23 PM
Think we could have dug up a few of these emergency votes in 2000, 2004, and 2016.

The rest of it is unsubstantiated stuff. I have no idea what law is being referred to for all the illegal anchor babies giving you $1,500 a month each that somehow applies to refugees or...something I have no idea. Nor do I see any actual information about the Broward County votes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 11, 2018, 07:43:22 PM
Psst Valmy: they're actually made up  :o

:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 12, 2018, 08:27:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 11, 2018, 06:17:23 PM
Think we could have dug up a few of these emergency votes in 2000, 2004, and 2016.

The rest of it is unsubstantiated stuff. I have no idea what law is being referred to for all the illegal anchor babies giving you $1,500 a month each that somehow applies to refugees or...something I have no idea. Nor do I see any actual information about the Broward County votes.

You are putting way more thought into these than either their creator, or the people who share them. The point is to support an opinion with them. Whether they are true or not is completely beside the point. Enough shares will make them true regardless.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 12, 2018, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 12, 2018, 08:27:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 11, 2018, 06:17:23 PM
Think we could have dug up a few of these emergency votes in 2000, 2004, and 2016.

The rest of it is unsubstantiated stuff. I have no idea what law is being referred to for all the illegal anchor babies giving you $1,500 a month each that somehow applies to refugees or...something I have no idea. Nor do I see any actual information about the Broward County votes.

You are putting way more thought into these than either their creator, or the people who share them. The point is to support an opinion with them. Whether they are true or not is completely beside the point. Enough shares will make them true regardless.
True.  I see the same things for Canada, all made up numbers.Refugees cost nothing to the Federal, all money they send has to be reimbursed after one year.  Provinces need to pay wellfare until they can find a job (which requires the Feds to move a little faster on either accepting them or refusing them, they can't work until they have the proper canadian documents, visa/citizenship)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 14, 2018, 04:12:34 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11846534_10204794310638593_5144923422481958261_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a3769c75d275fe157736e045948d896e&oe=5C871EA0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 14, 2018, 04:14:09 PM
Well, it is correct that those two sentences tell us a lot about whoever wrote and reposts those two sentences.


edit: reposts in a non ironic manner that is  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 14, 2018, 04:18:54 PM
The first sentence is not true at all. The second one is true because far more people are on social security than welfare so there is less reason to talk about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on November 14, 2018, 04:33:25 PM
The nice thing for the Russians who make up a lot of these idiot memes is that they can get away with factual errors, logical inconsistencies, and flat out poor grammar, and still have people reasonably assume it came from an actual Trump supporter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 14, 2018, 05:40:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2018, 04:18:54 PM
The first sentence is not true at all. The second one is true because far more people are on social security than welfare so there is less reason to talk about it.
#2 is because these things aren't calculated the same way.

Any pension fund, social security included, will be measured by acturaries: they evaluate what you receive today vs what you have to pay "tomorrow" (in 20,30,40 years, actually).  So when politicians, or media, talk about social security deficit, it means that if you keep contributions and benefits as they are today, you are going to be in deficit at some point in time.  Insurance work the same way.  They evaluate the risk a particular population will claim benefit and adjust premiums accordingly (ok, it's a tad more complex than that, but that's the general idea).

With welfare, a government taxes its citizens (or foreign commerce) and distributes a portion of that wealth to its citizens.  Same result, but different ways of calculations.  Since there's no specific tax (contributions) for welfare, govt won't evaluate a specific deficit, it's a pay-as-you-go type of system.  They collect money, they distribute it.

There is no evaluation of the needs of the population, unlike retirement where you know people will start collecting benefits between 55-65 years old and keep it until death (sometimes further, when it can be transfered to a surviving spouse).

A government will evaluate how much it pays for that each year, but not how much it will pay in 20, 30, 40 years from now.  It would be a meaningless stat anyway.  Welfare is not a contractual obligation, and it should be a government aim to minimize its payment, not maximize the comfort of the benefitor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on November 14, 2018, 06:16:20 PM
Sweet Jesus, Syt's family is dumb.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 14, 2018, 07:01:51 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on November 14, 2018, 04:33:25 PM
The nice thing for the Russians who make up a lot of these idiot memes is that they can get away with factual errors, logical inconsistencies, and flat out poor grammar, and still have people reasonably assume it came from an actual Trump supporter.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 15, 2018, 01:33:30 AM
QuoteJoseph Rudy RulloLike Page
November 11 at 8:54 AM ·
Photo taken this morning (November 10, 2018) in Kansas City, MO of a homeless disabled veteran in 18 degree weather. As long as we have homeless VETERANS on our streets, we have ZERO ROOM FOR REFUGEES!!!!

Have a wonderful Veterans Day weekend!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 15, 2018, 02:37:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46108116_2263007927250443_6620028029005463552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a4fb64c27730b58916cb7b47ccef64bd&oe=5C7C29C3)

The belief in voter fraud is strong with the R-voting, FOX News and Daily Wire consuming audience.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 15, 2018, 03:20:51 AM
Isn't it the minority ballots going missing though?

If any. Haven't looked into it at all but those are the rumblings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 15, 2018, 04:52:11 AM
When the GOP loses the Senate and the White House, I hope they'll come up with Orban's old slogan after losing power in 2002: "The nation cannot be in opposition"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 15, 2018, 09:14:23 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 15, 2018, 02:37:09 AM
The belief in voter fraud is strong with the R-voting, FOX News and Daily Wire consuming audience.

It is a really bad look. It looks like they are trying to intimidate the process.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 15, 2018, 11:58:22 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 15, 2018, 09:14:23 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 15, 2018, 02:37:09 AM
The belief in voter fraud is strong with the R-voting, FOX News and Daily Wire consuming audience.

It is a really bad look. It looks like they are trying to intimidate the process.

If not intimidate, certainly undermine it.  I wonder if they will ever understand how effective their role is as a dupe of Russia to achieve that goal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 15, 2018, 12:07:44 PM
It's one of the many signs that the tribe they have chosen is more important than preserving the political system of their country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 19, 2018, 04:10:34 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46508881_1788013431328495_4831012899969302528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4872ee641134929b77523a4d2c9340b2&oe=5C754BE2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 19, 2018, 04:15:19 PM
Pretty sure arson is already illegal in California.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 19, 2018, 05:53:04 PM
I doubt Paul Ryan really used that card.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 20, 2018, 01:19:13 PM
Ok I don't get this one. Is this a serious thing, or a funny as in "haha liberal California is burning, they should ban fires like they want with guns"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 20, 2018, 01:39:57 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 20, 2018, 01:19:13 PM
Ok I don't get this one. Is this a serious thing, or a funny as in "haha liberal California is burning, they should ban fires like they want with guns"?

You're making the near fatal* mistake of trying to get inside the minds of morons**

Instead just entirely ignore it and periodically use this thread to remind one self of why using mainstream social media is similar to mashing one's forehead against a brick wall




* In that it burns up some of one's limited time/life span.

** I'm sure there are plenty of people who post worthwhile stuff on it, but it's not worth the high risk of infection.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 20, 2018, 01:45:03 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 20, 2018, 01:19:13 PM
Ok I don't get this one. Is this a serious thing, or a funny as in "haha liberal California is burning, they should ban fires like they want with guns"?

My guess is it's about stuff like California banning plastic straws.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 20, 2018, 01:55:25 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 20, 2018, 01:19:13 PM
Ok I don't get this one. Is this a serious thing, or a funny as in "haha liberal California is burning, they should ban fires like they want with guns"?

Just nonsense. After all, Paradise is in a county that went for Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 26, 2018, 01:22:01 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46817364_10214939842787184_6882946492139569152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d0ab53293b27bc30a19b38d77667a25c&oe=5CAFA8A3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 26, 2018, 01:25:44 PM
Ok....good to know. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 26, 2018, 03:15:24 PM
Keeping my mouth shut on that one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 26, 2018, 03:35:51 PM
That is also a good way to avoid being beaten up, DerWhitePower.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 26, 2018, 03:40:53 PM
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on November 26, 2018, 03:47:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 26, 2018, 03:40:53 PM
:rolleyes:

Rolling your eyes? that's a paddling
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 26, 2018, 04:04:16 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 26, 2018, 03:15:24 PM
Keeping my mouth shut on that one.

My problem isn't with the message* but the horrible format.

*-well of course apart from the fact that the myriad of questionable policies and attitudes regarding to handling immigration and illegal immigrants in the US and rightful criticism of them will be washed together with foreigners trying to storm border crossings through a hail of tear gas, and everyone raising those issues as one being in support of foreigners storming the nation's border crossings.
Which will very closely be followed by critics of the President supporting foreigners storming border crossings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 26, 2018, 05:00:43 PM
My post was in relation to a joke I made a few weeks ago about the border control personnel throwing rocks back at people who throw rocks at them.  Somehow that got turned into me advocating throwing rocks at refugees.

And now I'm sure there will be a few posts now that prove why I should have kept my mouth shut.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 27, 2018, 08:49:31 AM
Still talking, I see.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 27, 2018, 09:14:02 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 26, 2018, 05:00:43 PM
My post was in relation to a joke I made a few weeks ago about the border control personnel throwing rocks back at people who throw rocks at them.  Somehow that got turned into me advocating throwing rocks at refugees.

Damnit it was because of the context!!!111

Anyway I got it this time :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 27, 2018, 09:16:18 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 27, 2018, 08:49:31 AM
Still talking, I see.

Yep.  Hope you're not gonna send your goons to beat me up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 27, 2018, 10:35:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 27, 2018, 09:16:18 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 27, 2018, 08:49:31 AM
Still talking, I see.

Yep.  Hope you're not gonna send your goons to beat me up.

No! I will just keep giving you shit on the internet, sometimes.  :homestar:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 27, 2018, 01:48:21 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 26, 2018, 03:35:51 PM
That is also a good way to avoid being beaten up, DieWeißeMacht.

Fixed!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on November 27, 2018, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 27, 2018, 10:35:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on November 27, 2018, 09:16:18 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 27, 2018, 08:49:31 AM
Still talking, I see.

Yep.  Hope you're not gonna send your goons to beat me up.

No! I will just keep giving you shit on the internet, sometimes.  :homestar:

But I am making others unsafe with my speech.  Why shouldn't I be made to feel unsafe, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 30, 2018, 11:12:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46922643_971414339712805_1915574543800336384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=33830a2ca8b5ab8f90debda45ac66b53&oe=5CA327CE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 30, 2018, 11:22:44 AM
oh, it's those whacky Eastern Europeans again!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 30, 2018, 08:32:00 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 30, 2018, 11:22:44 AM
oh, it's those whacky Eastern Europeans again!

So how is your red tree looking this year?

Actually do Hungarians and Slavs do Christmas Trees? I guess I always thought that was mainly a German thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 01, 2018, 03:30:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47048448_611194105965541_5375774092093816832_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f3108a073f32a06acf96018c5a77fa85&oe=5C714BE1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 01, 2018, 04:38:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 30, 2018, 08:32:00 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 30, 2018, 11:22:44 AM
oh, it's those whacky Eastern Europeans again!

So how is your red tree looking this year?

Actually do Hungarians and Slavs do Christmas Trees? I guess I always thought that was mainly a German thing.

Yes of course. Well, Hungarians do. There's a heavy German influence on Hungary so I guess it's not surprising.

I have never in my long life seen a red Christmas tree though, ever.

But it is good to know that all Eastern Europeans get their ancestry finger-pointed out when something about them or their opinion needs to be dismissed as irrelevant. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on December 01, 2018, 04:40:06 AM
And Slovenes are barely eastern at all, they're basically Austrians who speak funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on December 01, 2018, 08:16:48 AM
Quote from: The Larch on December 01, 2018, 04:40:06 AM
And Slovenes are barely eastern at all, they're basically Austrians who speak funny.

Since Austrians are easterners that happen to speak german that makes them easterners.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 01, 2018, 04:37:53 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 01, 2018, 03:30:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47048448_611194105965541_5375774092093816832_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f3108a073f32a06acf96018c5a77fa85&oe=5C714BE1)
There were a couple of things I recall hearing consistently in Russian discourse that I never heard in American discourse until recently.  One was the use of the word "globalist", and another was the painting of CNN as an American propaganda mouthpiece (because that's the only American news channel Russians are familiar with).  Funny how disinformation campaigns tend to converge.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 01, 2018, 06:48:02 PM
Yeah it is kind of weird. One would think MSNBC would be enemy #1. Or the New York Times or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on December 01, 2018, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 01, 2018, 06:48:02 PM
Yeah it is kind of weird. One would think MSNBC would be enemy #1. Or the New York Times or something.
Too many syllables in those.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 01, 2018, 06:55:49 PM
Why would one think that? CNN is better established than MSNBC and has a broader reach than the NYT.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 01, 2018, 07:09:58 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 01, 2018, 06:55:49 PM
Why would one think that? CNN is better established than MSNBC and has a broader reach than the NYT.

Because MSNBC in particular more closely fits their caricature.  CNN is pretty middle of the road.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 01, 2018, 07:52:24 PM
To people on the right, all of the "mainstream" media are biased against them. They focus on CNN because it's the most important.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 02, 2018, 02:01:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46868941_1486713681462664_2734933383367884800_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b8cd4fec4d0422ea4ca62e6ad13f5c66&oe=5C6BC6A0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 02, 2018, 02:14:39 AM
This is the result of so much US history taught in isolation from the rest of the world. Tens of thousands of loyalists fled the War of independence to Cananda and the Caribbean and tens of thousands of Confederates fled the Civil War to South America.

I know, it's a meme, but the idea that Americans in the past were not always in the movers and shakers of history is so widespread...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 02, 2018, 02:18:01 AM
Besides, if there's one thing the Middle East isn't short of, it's people taking up arms. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 02, 2018, 02:35:28 AM
America is an immigrant country almost entirely populated by people who left their country of origin :hmm:

QuoteThis is the result of so much US history taught in isolation from the rest of the world

I think it is the result of people not paying attention even in US history class :P

I mean why didn't those pilgrims stay home and man up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 02, 2018, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 02, 2018, 02:14:39 AM
This is the result of so much US history taught in isolation from the rest of the world. Tens of thousands of loyalists fled the War of independence to Cananda and the Caribbean and tens of thousands of Confederates fled the Civil War to South America.

I know, it's a meme, but the idea that Americans in the past were not always in the movers and shakers of history is so widespread...


Ugh.  I hate this.  The US is almost solipsistic in it's world view.d
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 02, 2018, 01:15:45 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2018, 02:01:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46868941_1486713681462664_2734933383367884800_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b8cd4fec4d0422ea4ca62e6ad13f5c66&oe=5C6BC6A0)


Also, wasn't the Civil War essentially an attempt to leave the US?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 02, 2018, 01:37:57 PM
Yeah. A lazy way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 02, 2018, 01:43:11 PM
QuoteALL AMERICANS MUST READ THIS ...PLEASE !!!
SHARE....EMAIL...SHARE....LET IT BE KNOWN !!


DO NOT ADD A SINGLE WORD

Yes, he told us in advance what he planned to do. Few were listening.

The following is a narrative taken from a 2008 Sunday

morning televised "Meet The Press'.

From Sunday's 07 Sept. 2008 11 : 48 : 04 EST,

Televised "Meet the Press" THE THEN Senator Obama was

asked about his stance on the American Flag.

General Bill Gann' USAF (ret.) asked Obama to explain

WHY he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem

is played.

The General stated to Obama that according to the United

States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171...

During rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is

displayed, all present (except those in uniform) are expected

to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over

the heart. Or, at the very least, "Stand and Face It".

NOW GET THIS !!

'Senator Obama replied :

"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived

as taking sides". "There are a lot of people in the world to

whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression.." "The

anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the

bombs bursting in air and all that sort of thing."

(ARE YOU READY FOR THIS???)

Obama continued : "The National Anthem should

be 'swapped' for something less parochial and less bellicose.

I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing'. If that

were our anthem, then, I might salute it. In my opinion, we

should consider reinventing our National Anthem as well

as 'redesign' our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and

love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the

level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we, as a

Nation of warring people, conduct ourselves like the nations

of Islam, where peace prevails - - - perhaps a state or period

of mutual accord could exist between our governments ...."

When I become President, I will seek a pact of agreement to

end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a

state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting oppressive

thoughts. We as a Nation, have placed upon the nations of

Islam, an unfair injustice which is WHY my wife disrespects

the Flag and she and I have attended several flag burning

ceremonies in the past".

"Of course now, I have found myself about to become the

President of the United States and I have put my hatred

aside. I will use my power to bring CHANGE to this

Nation, and offer the people a new path.My wife and I look

forward to becoming our Country's First black Family.

Indeed,CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of

America "

Yes, you read it right.

I, for one, am speechless!!!

Dale Lindsborg , Washington Post

EVERYONE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

NEEDS

TO READ THIS, SO KEEP IT GOING ! !

SAVE AMERICA BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE ! !
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 02, 2018, 01:46:07 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2018, 02:01:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46868941_1486713681462664_2734933383367884800_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b8cd4fec4d0422ea4ca62e6adC6BC6A0)

This close to Thanksgiving too... :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on December 02, 2018, 02:24:15 PM
I know this is a different era, but I don't remember this much made up crap being thrown around about Bush 2 years after he was out of office.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on December 02, 2018, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 02, 2018, 01:15:45 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2018, 02:01:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46868941_1486713681462664_2734933383367884800_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b8cd4fec4d0422ea4ca62e6ad13f5c66&oe=5C6BC6A0)


Also, wasn't the Civil War essentially an attempt to leave the US?

Well, it would have been a successful attempt to do so without a war if people in the north hadn't "pick up guns and fought and died to make it right".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 03, 2018, 10:26:04 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2018, 02:01:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46868941_1486713681462664_2734933383367884800_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b8cd4fec4d0422ea4ca62e6ad13f5c66&oe=5C6BC6A0)

Whoever made this meme evidently never heard of the "Pilgrims". The whole founding mythology of the US is based on the notion of people peacefully leaving where they were to flee to the US to build a new life away from 'oppression' back in the old country.

I guess being reminded of them every Thanksgiving isn't enough ...  :lol:

Naturally, they also never heard of the "United Empire Loyalists", either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 10:27:41 AM
Yeah if Americans really were who they say they were, the United States wouldn't exist and all of Britain's problems would have been solved. Sorry Britain.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 10:31:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2018, 02:35:28 AM
America is an immigrant country almost entirely populated by people who left their country of origin :hmm:

What foreign country were you born in?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 10:36:08 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 10:31:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2018, 02:35:28 AM
America is an immigrant country almost entirely populated by people who left their country of origin :hmm:

What foreign country were you born in?

Don't be a pedantic shithead, you know what I mean :lol:

But hey even within this country people often do not stay in the community we were born into. If better opportunity presents itself elsewhere we will just pick up and go, nevermind actual problems. And yes it is not uncommon for that to be a different country. I am almost an oddity for staying in my hometown. Moving around is pretty American.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 10:41:46 AM
The USA is also a good example of how immigration can be very pernicious to the original inhabitants  :P

As could Australia and even...gasp!.....Canada!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 10:36:08 AM
Don't be a pedantic shithead, you know what I mean :lol:


:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2018, 10:49:56 AM
Would it be too pedantic to point out that every country outside east Africa is populated by the descendants of people who came from somewhere else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 03, 2018, 10:50:07 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 10:41:46 AM
The USA is also a good example of how immigration can be very pernicious to the original inhabitants  :P

As could Australia and even...gasp!.....Canada!

The less 'progressive' the locals were, the worse off they were after contact with immigrants.

State level Eurasian societies more or less shrugged off colonial contact without losing their identity;  Neolithic-level farmers of North America were in trouble; but the stone age hunter-gatherers of Tasmania were completely wiped out. 

No wonder American Republicans are so worried.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2018, 10:49:56 AM
Would it be too pedantic to point out that every country outside east Africa is populated by the descendants of people who came from somewhere else?

Yes it would.

These are not ancient population movements. The First Fleet sailed to Australia in 1788; the colonisation of the Dakotas is almost in living memory.

I think that our cultures are safe because we have large populations. China and India had some tough times but were never at risk of being disinherited. The places with lower populations became the areas of dispossession.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2018, 11:54:51 AM
Ok. What is the magic number of years one's ancestors need to have been in a place to consider himself a native rather than an immigrant?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 12:18:56 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2018, 11:54:51 AM
Ok. What is the magic number of years one's ancestors need to have been in a place to consider himself a native rather than an immigrant?

There is no "magic number" but there's an obvious difference between one's ancestors having lived in a place for 10, 100, or 1000 years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 03, 2018, 12:22:28 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2018, 11:54:51 AM
Ok. What is the magic number of years one's ancestors need to have been in a place to consider himself a native rather than an immigrant?

To consider themselves? IMHO being born there.

To be considered by others? Well if they have a different skin colour you'll have the natives talk of "3rd generation immigrants" and such, so they are fucked.



It really is cultural. Hungary is very intolerant at one hand to non-assimilated cultures/identities, don't really let non-whites assimilate, but there are tons of people whose grandparents/great grandparents had a distinct German/assorted Slavic identity during their time, and this is absolutely not a "concern" for either the offsprings or society.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 12:30:42 PM
There was a Polish community of 250k people left in the UK after WW2. They went native incredibly quickly. As a schoolkid I would meet children that seemed completely native but with difficult surnames; one might notice some differences on visiting their homes. The last traces, for all practical purposes, disappeared sometime in the 1990s..........just before the new Poles started turning up. In Preston we had to do without a Polish deli for just over five years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 12:32:24 PM
I guess I'm an 11th generation immigrant :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
I'm a 5th generation immigrant. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 03, 2018, 12:34:14 PM
It gets muddled but 13th Generation is the most straight forward answer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 12:34:33 PM
On a warm summer's day I like to dress in woad and curse the Romans at a sacred oak grove.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 12:40:05 PM
The process still happens; I would hold up Xinjiang and Tibet as places where immigration will ultimately completely change the culture of those regions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 03, 2018, 12:47:06 PM
AOAAAAAA-AAA!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 03, 2018, 01:02:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
I'm a 5th generation immigrant. :)


16th generation.  I had one ancestor who came over in the 1620's.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2018, 10:49:56 AM
Would it be too pedantic to point out that every country outside east Africa is populated by the descendants of people who came from somewhere else?

Yes. :yes:

And why didn't you pick up your gun and fix Georgia instead of moving here?  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2018, 01:02:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
I'm a 5th generation immigrant. :)


16th generation.  I had one ancestor who came over in the 1620's.

So did I, but my generations seem more stretched out than everyone else's :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 03, 2018, 01:02:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
I'm a 5th generation immigrant. :)


16th generation.  I had one ancestor who came over in the 1620's.

So did I, but my generations seem more stretched out than everyone else's :huh:

Yeah I was frankly very surprised to see how many of my ancestors came over in the 17th century. If I am descended from you and you are not Irish, you probably came over in the 17th century or early 18th century. Even the Germans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 03, 2018, 01:12:46 PM
This guy was one of my ancestors.  Seems I'm related to George Bush.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Foote
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 01:13:20 PM
A little surprised at the big numbers you guys are throwing out, but I guess I'm being parochial in my thinking.  The Canadian prairies were settled starting around the 1890s, and that's when the big wave of immigrants came over.  But yes by that point the US was over 100 years old, New France/Quebec had not only been settled but been ruled by the British for 150 years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 01:07:47 PM
Yeah I was frankly very surprised to see how many of my ancestors came over in the 17th century. If I am descended from you and you are not Irish, you probably came over in the 17th century or early 18th century. Even the Germans.

Ditto (except for the Irish part).  My most recent immigrant ancestor came over from Scotland around 1790.  The bulk of my immigrant ancestors seem to have come over between 1660 and 1720.  Interesting to see the patterns of what parts of Europe they all came from, where they settled, and where they migrated.  So many similarities (and still only one 2nd cousin marriage!)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 01:29:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 01:13:20 PM
A little surprised at the big numbers you guys are throwing out, but I guess I'm being parochial in my thinking.  The Canadian prairies were settled starting around the 1890s, and that's when the big wave of immigrants came over.  But yes by that point the US was over 100 years old, New France/Quebec had not only been settled but been ruled by the British for 150 years.

Before I dove into my family history, my assumption was that probably about half my ancestors got here in the early to mid-18th century and the rest sometime in the 19th century.  I think a lot of that is due to how I learned American history from an early age.  In school we covered Jamestown and Plymouth in ridiculous detail, then mostly skipped to the French & Indian War, with maybe a small bit of coverage of the Salem Witch Trials in between for fun.  So I never really thought much about the migrations that took place during that less-mentioned period.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on December 03, 2018, 01:39:55 PM
My ancestors mostly come over with this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Cullmann :smarty: :pickelhaube:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 03, 2018, 01:42:14 PM
I think my most recent immigrant relative was in 1904 or 5. Oldest is William Bradford.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2018, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 03, 2018, 10:49:56 AM
Would it be too pedantic to point out that every country outside east Africa is populated by the descendants of people who came from somewhere else?

Yes. :yes:

And why didn't you pick up your gun and fix Georgia instead of moving here?  :mad:

Why didn't you fix Maryland?    :(

My hometown is in Florida. Guns are shockingly ineffective against insects and humidity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on December 03, 2018, 01:39:55 PM
My ancestors mostly come over with this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Cullmann :smarty: :pickelhaube:

You '48 Germans are troublemakers  <_<

On the other hand you brewed a lot of good beer and effectively built my city :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 03, 2018, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on December 03, 2018, 01:39:55 PM
My ancestors mostly come over with this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Cullmann :smarty: :pickelhaube:

Another example of someone who should have picked up arms and ... oh, wait.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 03, 2018, 02:14:44 PM
My ancestors didn't leave their homes. They stood their ground.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
If we go back 14 generations then we each have 16k ancestors in that cohort; with some ancestors appearing more than once of course. Time to stake your claims to be native Americans and get some of that casino loot  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
If we go back 14 generations then we each have 16k ancestors in that cohort; with some ancestors appearing more than once of course. Time to stake your claims to be native Americans and get some of that casino loot  :P


While I have taken no DNA tests I have zero evidence I am descended from any native Americans. That ancestry is actually relatively rare over here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 02:23:47 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
If we go back 14 generations then we each have 16k ancestors in that cohort; with some ancestors appearing more than once of course. Time to stake your claims to be native Americans and get some of that casino loot  :P

In Edmonton it's not uncommon to have native ancestry, or even of course to be (mostly) fully native.  But there's none of that "my great-great-great grandmother was Cree" silliness, again because settlement was fairly recently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 02:26:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
If we go back 14 generations then we each have 16k ancestors in that cohort; with some ancestors appearing more than once of course. Time to stake your claims to be native Americans and get some of that casino loot  :P


While I have taken no DNA tests I have zero evidence I am descended from any native Americans. That ancestry is actually relatively rare over here.

My DNA says no.  So no wampum for me :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 02:28:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 02:23:47 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
If we go back 14 generations then we each have 16k ancestors in that cohort; with some ancestors appearing more than once of course. Time to stake your claims to be native Americans and get some of that casino loot  :P

In Edmonton it's not uncommon to have native ancestry, or even of course to be (mostly) fully native.  But there's none of that "my great-great-great grandmother was Cree" silliness, again because settlement was fairly recently.

Growing up in Appalachia, a majority of the kids I knew had a grandmother that was "full blooded" Shawnee/Blackfoot/Cherokee/etc.  :yeahright:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on December 03, 2018, 02:35:04 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 03, 2018, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on December 03, 2018, 01:39:55 PM
My ancestors mostly come over with this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Cullmann :smarty: :pickelhaube:

Another example of someone who should have picked up arms and ... oh, wait.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 03, 2018, 02:40:52 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 12:30:42 PM
There was a Polish community of 250k people left in the UK after WW2. They went native incredibly quickly. As a schoolkid I would meet children that seemed completely native but with difficult surnames; one might notice some differences on visiting their homes. The last traces, for all practical purposes, disappeared sometime in the 1990s..........just before the new Poles started turning up. In Preston we had to do without a Polish deli for just over five years.

I wonder how long the communities from further away will take. But I also think it's not simply a matter of the big blob absorbing the small one. If the size different is big enough than I guess, but also then it is not absolutely 100%*. In Britain one obvious fusion is at the weakest point of British culture I guess: food :P

*: where I am from there was a lot of German communities. I knew a guy about 10 years my senior whose mother was shunned in her little German mountain village (almost smack middle of Hungary) because she got together with a non-German (the guy's father). The guy left and the two of them lived like semi-pariah.  Anyways, in everyday speech of my father and grandfahters' generation there was a lot of German words used as slang. But somebody from other parts of the country would be using quite different, non-German slang.

BTW, funnily enough I think if the Brexit Leavers get what they think they want, it will be a sort of recreation of the Empire, but in an inverse way: more immigration from India and Pakistan will be required as Europeans will be shunned out for political reasons, and this will further tilt the two cultures closer together in a generation or two. Which I think could become quite beneficial economically, but perhaps not the exact way those people have in mind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on December 03, 2018, 03:16:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 02:26:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 03, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
If we go back 14 generations then we each have 16k ancestors in that cohort; with some ancestors appearing more than once of course. Time to stake your claims to be native Americans and get some of that casino loot  :P


While I have taken no DNA tests I have zero evidence I am descended from any native Americans. That ancestry is actually relatively rare over here.

My DNA says no.  So no wampum for me :(

Ditto. People on my father's side lie about having a Cherokee ancestor, but the DNA test says not a single American Indian trace. It's all exactly what we thought it was from actual documents: Germans and Italians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 04:29:24 PM
"Cherokee princess" trope is a common one in American history, taking root in the late 19th century - early 20th c., used to cement ties to the land, to America, precisely at a moment when Indian Wars were dying down (and thus, when Indians were no longer a political threat). Cherokees were a safe choice for the myth, because they were considered both "civilized", noble, and had a history of intensive relations with Euro-Americans.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 04:29:24 PM
"Cherokee princess" trope is a common one in American history, taking root in the late 19th century - early 20th c., used to cement ties to the land, to America, precisely at a moment when Indian Wars were dying down (and thus, when Indians were no longer a political threat). Cherokees were a safe choice for the myth, because they were considered both "civilized", noble, and had a history of intensive relations with Euro-Americans.



Or just that Cherokees are a nation that people have heard of.

What political threat did they pose prior to the late 19th century? I mean I get that they were physically scary to frontier communities but they were politically pretty vulnerable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 05:01:40 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 04:29:24 PM
"Cherokee princess" trope is a common one in American history, taking root in the late 19th century - early 20th c., used to cement ties to the land, to America, precisely at a moment when Indian Wars were dying down (and thus, when Indians were no longer a political threat). Cherokees were a safe choice for the myth, because they were considered both "civilized", noble, and had a history of intensive relations with Euro-Americans.

In Edmonton, where First Nations people aren't mythologized, but rather people you can meet walking down the street, and generally seen as a disadvantaged group in general (plus some vestiges of racism) it's really unlikely one would invent a claim to be part First Nations.

Not that there hasn't been a lot of intermarriage!  But due to what is essentially a version of "one drop" reasoning if you can prove First Nations heritage you're entitled to be a Status Indian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 03, 2018, 06:22:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 04:29:24 PM
"Cherokee princess" trope is a common one in American history, taking root in the late 19th century - early 20th c., used to cement ties to the land, to America, precisely at a moment when Indian Wars were dying down (and thus, when Indians were no longer a political threat). Cherokees were a safe choice for the myth, because they were considered both "civilized", noble, and had a history of intensive relations with Euro-Americans.



Or just that Cherokees are a nation that people have heard of.

What political threat did they pose prior to the late 19th century? I mean I get that they were physically scary to frontier communities but they were politically pretty vulnerable.
You shouldn't see it only as Cherokee, but rather American Indians in general.  They still represented a political threat after the US civil war, up 'til late in the century. 

As their importance dwindle, and to claim "I am entitles to this land as much as them", what Oex says is it became a popular myth.

Quebec has its own version too, with "we all have indian blood".  That's only partly true for far away communities, and even then, not that much.  Not that it's significant in any way, genetically speaking.  You don't become a great beaver hunter just because of your genes :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 03, 2018, 06:30:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 03, 2018, 05:01:40 PM
Not that there hasn't been a lot of intermarriage!  But due to what is essentially a version of "one drop" reasoning if you can prove First Nations heritage you're entitled to be a Status Indian.
hmm, it's more complicated than that, afaik.

And it depends on the tribes. For Hurons (Wyandot/Wendat) and Iroquois (Mohawks), you need to prove your mother or grandmother lived on the reservation to be considered First Nation by the tribe. 
That's what I was told this summer at the Huron musuem.

If they don't approve of you, you don't get First Nations status afaik, because it only applies to people living or working on reservations.  I had to check for an employee last year, he wanted to be exempted from income taxes.

It's probably to avoid the "I have one drop of indian blood, please exempt me from all taxes".

I don't think the one drop rule is used at all by tribes to determine First Nation ancestry.  But maybe it's different for nomadic tribes out west.  Afaik, in the US, Cherokees do not recognized the validity of DNA tests to prove ancestry. And they're not precise enough to differentiate a Choctaw from an Inca.  So, pointless to determine which tribe you belong to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 04:53:55 PM
Or just that Cherokees are a nation that people have heard of.

What political threat did they pose prior to the late 19th century? I mean I get that they were physically scary to frontier communities but they were politically pretty vulnerable.

And people heard of the Apache, the Sioux, the Iroquois, the Shawnees, the Navajo... But you don't hear the trope of the Navajo princess, or the Iroquois princess. "Cherokee princess" gained a  historical specificity that others didn't.

As for their threat, yes, Indigenous people did pose a threat until late. I used political to underline that it featured organized violence between Indigenous and American polities - it wasn't just frontier chaos, and how it unfolded determined the political history of the North American West. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on December 03, 2018, 07:03:44 PM
White people spent a long time trying to make sure the Indians disappeared, then they started to pretend they were Indian
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on December 03, 2018, 08:18:15 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 06:55:57 PM

And people heard of the Apache, the Sioux, the Iroquois, the Shawnees, the Navajo... But you don't hear the trope of the Navajo princess, or the Iroquois princess. "Cherokee princess" gained a  historical specificity that others didn't.

As for their threat, yes, Indigenous people did pose a threat until late. I used political to underline that it featured organized violence between Indigenous and American polities - it wasn't just frontier chaos, and how it unfolded determined the political history of the North American West.
Blackfoot is also very common for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 04:53:55 PM
Or just that Cherokees are a nation that people have heard of.

What political threat did they pose prior to the late 19th century? I mean I get that they were physically scary to frontier communities but they were politically pretty vulnerable.

And people heard of the Apache, the Sioux, the Iroquois, the Shawnees, the Navajo... But you don't hear the trope of the Navajo princess, or the Iroquois princess. "Cherokee princess" gained a  historical specificity that others didn't.

Have they? That implies a knowledge of what each tribe was specifically known for that I seriously doubt most people claiming Cherokee ancestry have.

QuoteAs for their threat, yes, Indigenous people did pose a threat until late. I used political to underline that it featured organized violence between Indigenous and American polities - it wasn't just frontier chaos, and how it unfolded determined the political history of the North American West.

I mean the native nations were heavily outnumbered and divided both geographically and politically. So I guess I took a 'political threat' to mean like a threat to the United States but now it seems to be going in some technical definition I don't understand. So organized violence is the political threat here?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 08:31:48 PM
Quote from: PDH on December 03, 2018, 07:03:44 PM
White people spent a long time trying to make sure the Indians disappeared, then they started to pretend they were Indian

Well not this white person. I need to see some evidence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2018, 08:50:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 08:30:14 PM
Have they? That implies a knowledge of what each tribe was specifically known for that I seriously doubt most people claiming Cherokee ancestry have.

Tribes that have a weapon named after them (like the Apache gunship) or a college team definitely are known.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on December 03, 2018, 08:54:42 PM
I don't really know about my father's family, or my maternal grandfather's family, but my mom had a cousin who trace had traced my maternal grandmother's family back to England in the 1540s.  My several-times-great-grandfather had moved to Virginia in the 1640 or so.  The guy from the 1540s was apparently the son of people who had moved to England from France (or perhaps had moved there from France himself).  So the family actually has a much longer history in the US than in England.

I don't claim any Indian ancestors, but one of my mom's brother married a woman who claimed that her grandmother was full-blooded Cherokee.  Unlike a lot of people who claim Indian heritage, my aunt looks the part--dark complexion, straight black hair, brown eyes--and she's from the right place--eastern Tennessee.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on December 03, 2018, 09:21:49 PM
Dna test wise I'm 20% Native American. No idea beyond from south Texas/northern Mexico area so I don't try to claim any tribal membership. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on December 03, 2018, 09:26:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 03, 2018, 12:32:24 PM
I guess I'm an 11th generation immigrant :)
Same on Mothers side, 3rd generation on father side(can trace family back 11 generations in Mexico to ancestor who came from Spain)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 09:36:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 08:30:14 PM
Have they? That implies a knowledge of what each tribe was specifically known for that I seriously doubt most people claiming Cherokee ancestry have.

I am not sure what you are arguing for, here.

I am telling you: "Cherokee princess" is a thing. There are historical reasons for that. Families have inherited those stories from the 1890s-1920s and probably earlier. It has little to do with current, intimate, true knowledge of individual Indigenous nations, and a lot more to do with the historical context when that myth emerged. It was reinforced by the decline of Indigenous nations as a political force, which stopped making the Indian threatening, and began making them a marker of Americana, a tied to the land that could not really be contested, because there seemed to be no one left to contest it. See: all sports team having Indian names.

QuoteI mean the native nations were heavily outnumbered and divided both geographically and politically. So I guess I took a 'political threat' to mean like a threat to the United States but now it seems to be going in some technical definition I don't understand. So organized violence is the political threat here?

Well, yes. It was a threat to the United States. It was political, because Indigenous nations are nations, not just individuals. What are you not getting?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 09:38:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 08:31:48 PM
Well not this white person. I need to see some evidence.

There's quite a bunch of scholarship around the issue. See, among the most well-known: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300080674/playing-indian
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2018, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: katmai on December 03, 2018, 09:21:49 PM
Dna test wise I'm 20% Native American. No idea beyond from south Texas/northern Mexico area so I don't try to claim any tribal membership. :P

Mescalero
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 09:54:56 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 09:38:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 08:31:48 PM
Well not this white person. I need to see some evidence.

There's quite a bunch of scholarship around the issue. See, among the most well-known: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300080674/playing-indian


I meant I need to see evidence before I think I am descended from any indigenous nation :P

I remember Henry Louis Gates also saying that African Americans also often baselessly claimed native American ancestry so it does seem to be a thing for Americans. Makes sense, I mean what could be American? I mean inn addition to all the things noted in your link.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on December 03, 2018, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 09:38:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 08:31:48 PM
Well not this white person. I need to see some evidence.

There's quite a bunch of scholarship around the issue. See, among the most well-known: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300080674/playing-indian

He gave a really good talk at UWyo when I was an Anthropology grad student (oh my god, so long ago).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on December 03, 2018, 10:17:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 09:54:56 PM
I meant I need to see evidence before I think I am descended from any indigenous nation :P

I figured you meant this - but you are (and I mean no disrespect here (hell, we had beer(s) together), I am paraphrasing pure divine) a 4-corner, 90 degree angle, straight up blockhead (Devo style).  You are as straight edged as they come, Valmy, and you think things through.  Much of the US felt a romantic tie to the "lost savage" as soon as they felt they had done enough to kill them all off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 10:21:49 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 03, 2018, 09:36:12 PM
I am not sure what you are arguing for, here.

I am not necessarily arguing for anything. Just my impressions from talking to people who claimed to be Cherokees.

QuoteI am telling you: "Cherokee princess" is a thing. There are historical reasons for that. Families have inherited those stories from the 1890s-1920s and probably earlier. It has little to do with current, intimate, true knowledge of individual Indigenous nations, and a lot more to do with the historical context when that myth emerged. It was reinforced by the decline of Indigenous nations as a political force, which stopped making the Indian threatening, and began making them a marker of Americana, a tied to the land that could not really be contested, because there seemed to be no one left to contest it. See: all sports team having Indian names.

Sure, I agree with all that. I was only questioning the status of the Cherokee because they were one of the "civilized tribes" or something, as that would require people to actually know something about the Cherokee. Besides, I don't see people claiming to be descended from the Creek or the Chickasaw. The reason seems to me to be because Cherokee is a cooler sounding name.

Though I guess I should note that they were used as symbols of America virtually from 1776 onwards. See: Native Americans on American currency.

QuoteWell, yes. It was a threat to the United States. It was political, because Indigenous nations are nations, not just individuals. What are you not getting?

It was a threat in what sense? Just in the sense that they disputed US control over certain territory? I mean it was not like they were going to march on Washington.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 10:28:37 PM
Quote from: PDH on December 03, 2018, 10:17:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 09:54:56 PM
I meant I need to see evidence before I think I am descended from any indigenous nation :P

I figured you meant this - but you are (and I mean no disrespect here (hell, we had beer(s) together), I am paraphrasing pure divine) a 4-corner, 90 degree angle, straight up blockhead (Devo style).  You are as straight edged as they come, Valmy, and you think things through.  Much of the US felt a romantic tie to the "lost savage" as soon as they felt they had done enough to kill them all off.

Well...so long as it is a Devo style blockhead.

It would just seem very disrespectful to start trying to appropriate ancestry that is not mine. I mean not that it even matters much, but still.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 03, 2018, 11:00:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 10:21:49 PM
It was a threat in what sense? Just in the sense that they disputed US control over certain territory? I mean it was not like they were going to march on Washington.
I believe indian military power and crimes against settlers were vastly overrated in medias of the times, especially after Little Big Horn.

But it may also be a political threat: a faction (american political faction with maybe no clear ties to any political party but representing a faction of political parties?)  trying to gain sympathy for indian nations and therefore endanger plans to forcibly move them out of the way when land or gold was needed.  That is only an asumption though.  PDh and Oex would know more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 03, 2018, 11:12:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 10:28:37 PM
It would just seem very disrespectful to start trying to appropriate ancestry that is not mine. I mean not that it even matters much, but still.
and you think some people are put off by that? ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 04, 2018, 12:33:17 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 03, 2018, 11:00:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2018, 10:21:49 PM
It was a threat in what sense? Just in the sense that they disputed US control over certain territory? I mean it was not like they were going to march on Washington.
I believe indian military power and crimes against settlers were vastly overrated in medias of the times, especially after Little Big Horn.

But it may also be a political threat: a faction (american political faction with maybe no clear ties to any political party but representing a faction of political parties?)  trying to gain sympathy for indian nations and therefore endanger plans to forcibly move them out of the way when land or gold was needed.  That is only an asumption though.  PDh and Oex would know more.


I'm not sure what you are getting at.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on December 04, 2018, 04:51:36 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 03, 2018, 12:34:14 PM
It gets muddled but 13th Generation is the most straight forward answer.

If one is 3rd generation on one side, but umpteenth on the other, how does one calculate that? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 04, 2018, 07:20:59 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 04, 2018, 04:51:36 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 03, 2018, 12:34:14 PM
It gets muddled but 13th Generation is the most straight forward answer.

If one is 3rd generation on one side, but umpteenth on the other, how does one calculate that? :hmm:

:hmm: Pick the bigger known number.

My 13th is on my father's side since the research was done in the late 80s. On my mother's side, I don't know when the ancestor shows up but she/I have Wallace ancestry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 04, 2018, 08:23:53 AM
Wallace?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 04, 2018, 08:33:29 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 04, 2018, 08:23:53 AM
Wallace?

I am sure this is a reference that I don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Wallace
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 04, 2018, 09:17:18 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2018, 08:33:29 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 04, 2018, 08:23:53 AM
Wallace?

I am sure this is a reference that I don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Wallace

I was wondering if you meant Mel Gibson :P

You sill Americans. Your connection to Wallace is just about as relevant as my connection to Genghis Khan. We probably share our connection to both of them. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 04, 2018, 09:22:16 AM
Would this be a bad time to mention I can trace a direct line to Rollo?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 04, 2018, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 04, 2018, 09:17:18 AM
You sill Americans. Your connection to Wallace is just about as relevant as my connection to Genghis Khan. We probably share our connection to both of them. :P

I have you know I am a direct descendant of Charlemagne and therefore rightful Emperor of the EU.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 04, 2018, 09:25:32 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 04, 2018, 09:17:18 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2018, 08:33:29 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 04, 2018, 08:23:53 AM
Wallace?

I am sure this is a reference that I don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Wallace

I was wondering if you meant Mel Gibson :P

You sill Americans. Your connection to Wallace is just about as relevant as my connection to Genghis Khan. We probably share our connection to both of them. :P

I don't know about William in 13th century but my maternal's grand mother maiden name was Wallace.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 04, 2018, 09:39:32 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2018, 09:25:32 AM
I don't know about William in 13th century but my maternal's grand mother maiden name was Wallace.

Besides William Wallace had no descendants...I mean unless you believe he impregnated a 10 year old girl like Mel Gibson's movie claims :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 04, 2018, 10:44:10 AM
Early puberty back then? Nah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 04, 2018, 11:24:06 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 04, 2018, 09:39:32 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 04, 2018, 09:25:32 AM
I don't know about William in 13th century but my maternal's grand mother maiden name was Wallace.

Besides William Wallace had no descendants...I mean unless you believe he impregnated a 10 year old girl like Mel Gibson's movie claims :P

Never watched The Man who shot Liberty Valance?
QuoteWhen the Legend become fact, print the legend.
:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2018, 11:19:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47572073_1991769087527438_8741065480304852992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f7182049989bb2fd5089640d529cfb2e&oe=5CADE621)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 06, 2018, 11:21:40 AM
What asshole laughs at children for believing in Santa Claus?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 06, 2018, 11:25:23 AM
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 06, 2018, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2018, 11:19:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47572073_1991769087527438_8741065480304852992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f7182049989bb2fd5089640d529cfb2e&oe=5CADE621)

I thought the punchline was going to be that some adults believe in a God that gives them things
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 06, 2018, 11:31:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 06, 2018, 11:21:40 AM
What asshole laughs at children for believing in Santa Claus?

Especially when they're having conversations with him about CNN.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2018, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 06, 2018, 11:29:33 AMI thought the punchline was going to be that some adults believe in a God that gives them things

Nope.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46999917_10213764610096217_2771761899002396672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=861a9c09a9bc91a56a7d4e2fcd57e847&oe=5CADE17F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 06, 2018, 01:52:34 PM
Moon god??!???
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on December 06, 2018, 05:29:08 PM
Best to not show him your backside.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2018, 05:46:50 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11037022_190416371305024_795564462863511396_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7350ec323e5611fa585ac32546c443d4&oe=5CA52E6C)

Guess my sister didn't notice these are British troops ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 06, 2018, 07:13:20 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 06, 2018, 07:16:15 PM
Doesn't Britain have America's back?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 06, 2018, 07:17:20 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 06, 2018, 07:16:15 PM
Doesn't Britain have America's back?

Yes???? :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 06, 2018, 07:27:41 PM
I should have recognized it.  Americans don't do Christmas crackers, do you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 06, 2018, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 06, 2018, 07:27:41 PM
I should have recognized it.  Americans don't do Christmas crackers, do you?

Nope.  Pretty sure no bull shoulder patch either.

But don't Brits say Happy Christmas?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 06, 2018, 08:05:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 06, 2018, 07:27:41 PM
I should have recognized it.  Americans don't do Christmas crackers, do you?

We do in my house.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 06, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 06, 2018, 08:05:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 06, 2018, 07:27:41 PM
I should have recognized it.  Americans don't do Christmas crackers, do you?

We do in my house.

It's times like this I miss Seedy.    :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 06, 2018, 10:58:07 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2018, 05:46:50 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11037022_190416371305024_795564462863511396_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7350ec323e5611fa585ac32546c443d4&oe=5CA52E6C)

Guess my sister didn't notice these are British troops ...

Make America Great Britain Again

Anyway Happy Christmas and God Save the Queen to our boys in khaki.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 07, 2018, 12:43:16 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 06, 2018, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 06, 2018, 07:27:41 PM
I should have recognized it.  Americans don't do Christmas crackers, do you?

Nope.  Pretty sure no bull shoulder patch either.

But don't Brits say Happy Christmas?

I'm pretty sure whoever created this just did a Google image search for troops and Christmas.  :P

And yeah, the Christmas crackers were the giveaway. That and the Union Jack patches on the uniforms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2018, 03:08:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 07, 2018, 12:43:16 AM
I'm pretty sure whoever created this just did a Google image search for troops and Christmas.  :P

And yeah, the Christmas crackers were the giveaway. That and the Union Jack patches on the uniforms.

Yeah, but my point is why are Brits wearing hats that say *Merry* Christmas?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 07, 2018, 07:35:44 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2018, 03:08:39 AM

Yeah, but my point is why are Brits wearing hats that say *Merry* Christmas?

Because it is close to Christmas? 

You don't really expect People's Liberation Army Political Reeducation Hat Factory Number Three to crank out a separate "Happy Christmas" line just for the Brits, do you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 07, 2018, 12:52:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2018, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 06, 2018, 11:29:33 AMI thought the punchline was going to be that some adults believe in a God that gives them things

Nope.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46999917_10213764610096217_2771761899002396672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=861a9c09a9bc91a56a7d4e2fcd57e847&oe=5CADE17F)

Nietzsche was right!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on December 07, 2018, 01:57:39 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 07, 2018, 07:35:44 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2018, 03:08:39 AM

Yeah, but my point is why are Brits wearing hats that say *Merry* Christmas?

Because it is close to Christmas? 

You don't really expect People's Liberation Army Political Reeducation Hat Factory Number Three to crank out a separate "Happy Christmas" line just for the Brits, do you?

This made me think fondly of CdM.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2018, 07:39:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47209639_1108440959315781_4356724501900165120_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=700a4f87f25011cad87de63df4243ee0&oe=5C9E7C98)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on December 10, 2018, 08:24:12 AM
Very brave of her to do things that offend basically no one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2018, 08:25:53 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on December 10, 2018, 08:24:12 AM
Very brave of her to do things that offend basically no one.

I'm sure her news sources inform her that countless millions of left wing Americans are incredibly offended by any or all of this. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2018, 08:33:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47222093_2292090777468797_5033979228878536704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7742d0b601d9a1f908133809e1f7754d&oe=5C949796)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2018, 08:40:38 AM
So bye to Trump then? :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2018, 08:46:34 AM
 :lol:

I noticed that my sisters only find entertainers relevant if they share their political views.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 10, 2018, 08:56:43 AM
Like they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2018, 09:00:39 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 10, 2018, 08:56:43 AM
Like they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Sure. I mean there is nothing incorrect about that. It is just not a very interesting or controversial take, especially not one demanding I ponder it complete with random WORLD capitalized.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2018, 09:02:22 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 10, 2018, 08:56:43 AM
Like they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Right about what? Underpaid doctors? Farmers who don't get subsidies? Poor plumbers?

What does need have to do with who we consider important?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2018, 09:06:21 AM
It's a bit fundamentalist, at any rate. "We can do without entertainment."

I think they tried that in Afghanistan. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 10, 2018, 09:11:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2018, 09:00:39 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 10, 2018, 08:56:43 AM
Like they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Sure. I mean there is nothing incorrect about that. It is just not a very interesting or controversial take, especially not one demanding I ponder it complete with random WORLD capitalized.

(https://i.imgflip.com/2olz59.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 10, 2018, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 10, 2018, 07:39:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47209639_1108440959315781_4356724501900165120_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=700a4f87f25011cad87de63df4243ee0&oe=5C9E7C98)
Aren't grinches bad guys? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2018, 09:41:56 AM
Yeah the Grinch hated Christmas :hmm: I mean that was his one defining character trait  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on December 10, 2018, 09:43:54 AM
He's the grinch of happy holidays, I guess
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 10, 2018, 09:47:28 AM
The co-opted patriotic Grinch loves Christmas.  More than that, he loves offending people by saying "Merry Christmas" *and* saluting the flag.  Take that, leftist Whos!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2018, 09:50:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 10, 2018, 09:47:28 AM
The co-opted patriotic Grinch loves Christmas.  More than that, he loves offending people by saying "Merry Christmas" *and* saluting the flag.  Take that, leftist Whos!

Does he sneak into our houses at night and put Christmas Tree and American flags inside?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on December 10, 2018, 10:02:09 AM
Only if doing so will offend you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2018, 10:31:11 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 10, 2018, 10:02:09 AM
Only if doing so will offend you.

But what if the leftist Whos, the large and the small, are offended without any Christmas Trees or American Flags at all?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 10, 2018, 10:37:06 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 10, 2018, 09:47:28 AM
The co-opted patriotic Grinch loves Christmas.  More than that, he loves offending people by saying "Merry Christmas" *and* saluting the flag.  Take that, leftist Whos!

From "The Grinch Voted for Trump":

The Grinch hated Leftists! So much he condoned treason!
Now, please don't ask why. No one quite knows the reason.
It could be his head wasn't screwed on just right.
It could be, perhaps, that his shoes were too tight.
But I think that the most likely reason of all
May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 10, 2018, 10:52:35 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2018, 09:02:22 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 10, 2018, 08:56:43 AM
Like they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Right about what? Underpaid doctors? Farmers who don't get subsidies? Poor plumbers?

None of those were claims made in the graphic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 11, 2018, 06:23:08 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 10, 2018, 09:06:21 AM
It's a bit fundamentalist, at any rate. "We can do without entertainment."

I think they tried that in Afghanistan. :hmm:

:secret:

Decapitations and lapidation.  :osama:
Bonus : edification of the masses
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2018, 04:15:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46847381_2195107067168008_3205684248803540992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c2e7075afa39c82a2c59e2f71b263291&oe=5CAECE4C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 12, 2018, 04:21:13 AM
I agree. Dennis needs to change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 12, 2018, 04:47:48 AM
Obama cell?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2018, 04:49:07 AM
Quote from: Tyr on December 12, 2018, 04:47:48 AM
Obama cell?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/phone-home/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 12, 2018, 05:02:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 12, 2018, 04:21:13 AM
I agree. Dennis needs to change.

He risks his life for your freedom.   :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2018, 05:09:23 AM
I've seen this "$3900 for muslim immigrants" floating around a fair bit recently. Best I can tell it might originate from a misrepresented Canada story from 2013 or so?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/monthly-refugee-benefits/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 20, 2018, 09:57:57 AM
Quote from: Tyr on December 12, 2018, 04:47:48 AM
Obama cell?


It is a program that came around before Obama (like many decades before Obama) to subsidize phone service for the poor. Not sure why it gets linked to Obama, he had nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on December 20, 2018, 10:29:56 AM
During the height of the immigration crisis a few years back we rented out a house. It was a proper, quite big house in the countryside.

We got a few mails from immigrants and they listed their income. It quite disgusted me how much money they got from the state and how much they were able to pay. Several of the families, with typically 3-5 kids, got more money monthly than we earned at the time.

Now, I assume that that money was temporary assistance to be able to set up a home in a new country and so on, but still, it rankled me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 20, 2018, 10:54:41 AM
Seen on Twitter:

The wall between the US and Mexico should be built out of Hilary's emails, since apparently, no one can get over that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Solmyr on December 20, 2018, 11:10:12 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 20, 2018, 10:54:41 AM
Seen on Twitter:

The wall between the US and Mexico should be built out of Hilary's emails, since apparently, no one can get over that.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 20, 2018, 01:24:06 PM
Quote from: Threviel on December 20, 2018, 10:29:56 AM
During the height of the immigration crisis a few years back we rented out a house. It was a proper, quite big house in the countryside.

We got a few mails from immigrants and they listed their income. It quite disgusted me how much money they got from the state and how much they were able to pay. Several of the families, with typically 3-5 kids, got more money monthly than we earned at the time.

Now, I assume that that money was temporary assistance to be able to set up a home in a new country and so on, but still, it rankled me.
if it's anything like Canada, they need to refund that money after one year.  Well, start to pay back, I mean, not upfront.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 20, 2018, 01:25:11 PM
Sweden is nothing like Canada. Thank God.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 20, 2018, 02:02:45 PM
Both cold as the 9th circle of hell.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 20, 2018, 02:24:39 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 20, 2018, 01:25:11 PM
Sweden is nothing like Canada. Thank God.

Couldn't agree more.  So do all the Swedes who immigrated to Canada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 20, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 20, 2018, 02:24:39 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 20, 2018, 01:25:11 PM
Sweden is nothing like Canada. Thank God.

Couldn't agree more.  So do all the Swedes who immigrated to Canada.

They're both great people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 20, 2018, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 20, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 20, 2018, 02:24:39 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 20, 2018, 01:25:11 PM
Sweden is nothing like Canada. Thank God.

Couldn't agree more.  So do all the Swedes who immigrated to Canada.

They're both great people.

:yeahright:

QuoteSwedish immigration to Canada began in the 1870s with the first rural Swedish colony, Scandinavia, near the town of Erickson in Manitoba. Originally named New Sweden, Scandinavia was established by three men who organized dwellings to house the first settlers.

Like their Scandinavian counterparts, Swedish immigrants first arrived and settled in the United States and then travelled north to settle in Canada. A large influx of Swedish immigrants from the states of Minnesota and North Dakota migrated to the Canadian Prairie provinces in the 1920s. At that time, the United States introduced an immigration quota and Canada became the destination of choice for Icelanders, Finns, Norwegians and Danes.

Winnipeg was the "Swedish capital of Canada" until the 1940s, when Vancouver took over the title. Although a considerable number of persons of Swedish origin live in Calgary and Edmonton and their environs, the Toronto area is currently home to the largest concentration of newcomers. Swedish heritage is visible in Canada with more than 175 place names of Swedish origin such as Upsala in Ontario, Stockholm in Saskatchewan, and Thorsby and Malmo in Alberta.

As of 2001, there were more than 282,000 people with Swedish ancestry living in Canada.

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/history-ethnic-cultural/Pages/swedish.aspx
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 20, 2018, 02:31:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 20, 2018, 09:57:57 AM
It is a program that came around before Obama (like many decades before Obama) to subsidize phone service for the poor. Not sure why it gets linked to Obama, he had nothing to do with it.

My recollection is that the legislation to use phone taxes to help the poor had existed, but it was Obama who used the legislation to give cell phones out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 20, 2018, 06:28:36 PM
Sister posted this yesterday  :wacko:

QuoteI get into my car after leaving Julian's. A young guy walks up to my car and knocks on my window. I roll it down a little and he asked me for money.

Him: hi, can I get a few dollars (or something along those lines)
Me: sorry I don't have any cash (I really don't)
Him: what?
Me: sorry I don't have any cash.
Him: whips out a wad of cash and says "whatever, I don't need your money, useless bitch"
Me: okay, BYE! (Rolls up window)
Him: walks away

Wtf is wrong with people ‍♀️
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on December 20, 2018, 07:27:23 PM
Why'd she end with the female sign?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 20, 2018, 10:26:18 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 20, 2018, 02:31:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 20, 2018, 09:57:57 AM
It is a program that came around before Obama (like many decades before Obama) to subsidize phone service for the poor. Not sure why it gets linked to Obama, he had nothing to do with it.

My recollection is that the legislation to use phone taxes to help the poor had existed, but it was Obama who used the legislation to give cell phones out.

Not true, unless he proposed it as a Senator. That happened before he was elected President.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 21, 2018, 12:25:31 AM
Quote from: HVC on December 20, 2018, 07:27:23 PM
Why'd she end with the female sign?

Emoji copied over weird.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 22, 2018, 05:21:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48064296_770535619963351_5303004212089585664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a832b89836de77cb8a3734e95908868c&oe=5CD96BEF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 22, 2018, 06:57:42 AM
Do they at least pass Go?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 22, 2018, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 22, 2018, 06:57:42 AM
Do they at least pass Go?

But they do not collect $200

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on December 22, 2018, 09:11:13 AM
Harvad, Harvard's lesser known sister school.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 22, 2018, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 22, 2018, 05:21:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48064296_770535619963351_5303004212089585664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a832b89836de77cb8a3734e95908868c&oe=5CD96BEF)

I don't understand. I thought you couldn't go to jail unless you committed a crime?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 22, 2018, 10:02:44 AM
maybe they mean the town of Jail
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on December 22, 2018, 09:57:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 22, 2018, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 22, 2018, 05:21:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48064296_770535619963351_5303004212089585664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a832b89836de77cb8a3734e95908868c&oe=5CD96BEF)

I don't understand. I thought you couldn't go to jail unless you committed a crime?

Tells you something about the parents who posted it, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 22, 2018, 10:35:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 22, 2018, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 22, 2018, 05:21:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48064296_770535619963351_5303004212089585664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a832b89836de77cb8a3734e95908868c&oe=5CD96BEF)

I don't understand. I thought you couldn't go to jail unless you committed a crime?

True, but children of congresspeople frequently get away with stuff, at least on tv.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 24, 2018, 11:10:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 22, 2018, 05:21:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48064296_770535619963351_5303004212089585664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a832b89836de77cb8a3734e95908868c&oe=5CD96BEF)

Silly.  Don't they know it's spelled gaol?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 25, 2018, 07:37:30 AM
That one seems quite fair.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 30, 2018, 04:36:27 PM
"A Map to Trigger Every Country in Europe"

(https://i.redd.it/98yeq8a2pz611.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on December 30, 2018, 05:02:44 PM
 :D

Who's that in Croatia?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 30, 2018, 05:04:37 PM
Quote from: Maladict on December 30, 2018, 05:02:44 PM
:D

Who's that in Croatia?

Looks like Tito.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 30, 2018, 05:09:46 PM
Why does the Ukraine hate us?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 30, 2018, 05:12:14 PM
The Netherlands is pretty clever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2018, 05:16:50 PM
What's the deal with Bert and Ukraine?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 30, 2018, 06:04:48 PM
The Netherlands, Switzerland, and either Latvia or Lithuania do not appear to exist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 30, 2018, 06:10:52 PM
Poland is triggered by itself it seems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 30, 2018, 06:11:46 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 30, 2018, 05:12:14 PM
The Netherlands is pretty clever.

Doh! That one is brutal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 30, 2018, 06:12:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2018, 06:10:52 PM
Poland is triggered by itself it seems.


That's the flag of Indonesia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 30, 2018, 06:13:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 30, 2018, 06:12:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 30, 2018, 06:10:52 PM
Poland is triggered by itself it seems.


That's the flag of Indonesia.

Oh...you're right :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 30, 2018, 07:10:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 30, 2018, 06:04:48 PM
The Netherlands, Switzerland, and either Latvia or Lithuania do not appear to exist.
I wonder how it feels to be Baltic countries, or to a lesser extent the Low Countries.  It's like you have no identity, you always go with your two brothers on everything that matters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on December 30, 2018, 07:38:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2018, 05:16:50 PM
What's the deal with Bert and Ukraine?

US muppet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on December 30, 2018, 10:40:12 PM
Bert is not a muppet!!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on December 31, 2018, 05:44:19 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 30, 2018, 07:10:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 30, 2018, 06:04:48 PM
The Netherlands, Switzerland, and either Latvia or Lithuania do not appear to exist.
I wonder how it feels to be Baltic countries, or to a lesser extent the Low Countries.  It's like you have no identity, you always go with your two brothers on everything that matters.

:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on December 31, 2018, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Maladict on December 31, 2018, 05:44:19 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 30, 2018, 07:10:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 30, 2018, 06:04:48 PM
The Netherlands, Switzerland, and either Latvia or Lithuania do not appear to exist.
I wonder how it feels to be Baltic countries, or to a lesser extent the Low Countries.  It's like you have no identity, you always go with your two brothers on everything that matters.

:huh:

I don't think DG gets the Netherlands one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 31, 2018, 04:32:56 PM
I can't even make out what the Dutch one says.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 31, 2018, 04:39:23 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 31, 2018, 04:32:56 PM
I can't even make out what the Dutch one says.

Remember how the Germans violated Dutch Neutrality to start World War I? Boy was that silly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on December 31, 2018, 04:47:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 31, 2018, 04:39:23 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 31, 2018, 04:32:56 PM
I can't even make out what the Dutch one says.

Remember how the Germans violated Dutch Neutrality to start World War I? Boy was that silly.

DG's comment makes more sense to me now  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 31, 2018, 04:51:55 PM
Quote from: Maladict on December 31, 2018, 04:47:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 31, 2018, 04:39:23 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 31, 2018, 04:32:56 PM
I can't even make out what the Dutch one says.

Remember how the Germans violated Dutch Neutrality to start World War I? Boy was that silly.

DG's comment makes more sense to me now  :lol:

I just don't know how you Dutch people can live with yourselves after the crimes in the Dutch Congo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on December 31, 2018, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 31, 2018, 04:51:55 PM

I just don't know how you Dutch people can live with yourselves after the crimes in the Dutch Congo.

We invented waffles to guilt-eat our way out of it. And French fries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 31, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
In WW2, Hitler invaded all three at once, it was a single national focus.  Stalin did likewise with the Baltic countries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 08, 2019, 08:55:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49564094_1903319486457943_2287424080619503616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f16cf7ea00d469291a96fd2ee21a9684&oe=5CBF2469)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49748588_2179482709037572_2040612758457679872_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=47c10c9f79faa7a5512e9f088b9de7d2&oe=5CD375CE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 08, 2019, 09:29:39 AM
The people voted Pelosi into power.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 08, 2019, 12:01:11 PM
How are they putting our lives in danger?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 08, 2019, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 08, 2019, 12:01:11 PM
How are they putting our lives in danger?

Not supporting the wall? :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 08, 2019, 12:09:10 PM
Is that Kim Kardashian?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 08, 2019, 12:19:09 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 08, 2019, 12:01:11 PM
How are they putting our lives in danger?

The wall is a matter of life and death. Talk about hysteria.

The reason we don't support the wall is any objective analysis shows it will not work and it will be a waste of money.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 08, 2019, 12:37:53 PM
The point is that Trump is tougher and more intransigent in dealing with his fellow Americans - who in turn represent the majority of the country - then he is when dealing with America's worst and most dangerous foes.

I get why that puts our lives in danger.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 08, 2019, 03:57:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 08, 2019, 12:19:09 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 08, 2019, 12:01:11 PM
How are they putting our lives in danger?

The wall is a matter of life and death. Talk about hysteria.

The reason we don't support the wall is any objective analysis shows it will not work and it will be a waste of money.

Nah, it's mostly symbolic at this point. You don't hold up the entire budget because 5 billion could be spent more efficiently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 08, 2019, 04:07:36 PM
We need to build bridges, not walls.  Walls are racist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 08, 2019, 04:08:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 08, 2019, 04:07:36 PM
We need to build bridges, not walls.  Walls are racist.

what if you stacked up the bridges to build a wall?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 08, 2019, 04:26:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 08, 2019, 04:07:36 PM
We need to build bridges, not walls.  Walls are racist.

Pretty sure we have sufficient bridges across the Rio Grande already.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 08, 2019, 04:29:12 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 08, 2019, 03:57:15 PM
Nah, it's mostly symbolic at this point. You don't hold up the entire budget because 5 billion could be spent more efficiently.

Sure. Symbolic that the President cannot just bully the Legislative Branch into doing whatever he wants them to do. He could have just had his own party fund his wall, but he waited until his party lost an election.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 08, 2019, 04:34:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 08, 2019, 04:29:12 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 08, 2019, 03:57:15 PM
Nah, it's mostly symbolic at this point. You don't hold up the entire budget because 5 billion could be spent more efficiently.

Sure. Symbolic that the President cannot just bully the Legislative Branch into doing whatever he wants them to do. He could have just had his own party fund his wall, but he waited until his party lost an election.

Yep. Pretty clever of them to lose all those elections to Democrats so they can blame the lack of a wall on them. 12D chess!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 08, 2019, 04:41:08 PM
The main reason people oppose the wall is because the Big Tool wants it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 08, 2019, 04:51:30 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 08, 2019, 04:41:08 PM
The main reason people oppose the wall is because the Big Tool wants it.


That's adequate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 08, 2019, 06:05:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 08, 2019, 04:41:08 PM
The main reason people oppose the wall is because the Big Tool wants it.

That's part of it but another part is that congressional Dems don't want to be negotiating against themselves like fools.  Pence made a reasonable compromise offer but the risk of accepting is that Trump then follows his usual M.O. of repudiating it so he can retrade for more.  In fact, Trump later clarified Pence lacked authority to make the proposal.

White House chaos + Trump's asinine concept of negotiation is a deadly combination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 09, 2019, 06:39:35 PM
Don't negotiate with Trump, ever.

I wish my government didn't. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2019, 04:05:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49726475_2265959036955988_3181475236142907392_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=21a721b01bb2daba7dbc48d612a0765a&oe=5CD265C2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 14, 2019, 04:12:04 PM
QuoteRobert Waters
December 27, 2018 at 11:43 AM
Russia donated $0.00 to Trump. Russia donated $145,600,000.00 to the Clinton foundation. But Trump is the one under investigation?

QuoteMike Kintner
August 26, 2018
Heaven has a wall, a gate and a strict immigration policy. Hell has open borders. Let that sink in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 14, 2019, 04:13:50 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49897101_1012203872318981_8007474917140332544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ac9b8bda420479711f94c59e3885975d&oe=5CD63727)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 14, 2019, 04:21:57 PM
Why this wall was not already built is a mystery to me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 14, 2019, 04:52:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 14, 2019, 04:12:04 PM
August 26, 2018
Heaven has a wall, a gate and a strict immigration policy. Hell has open borders. Let that sink in.

  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 14, 2019, 05:15:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 14, 2019, 04:21:57 PM
Why this wall was not already built is a mystery to me.

I thought most of the border already had some kind of barrier or wall, or at least a fence, but then this new Trump wall is supposed to be bigly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 14, 2019, 05:37:05 PM
I'm no theologian but I'm pretty Hell doesn't have open borders.

Heaven does have a strict immigration policy though. Mostly to keep the rich out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 14, 2019, 06:47:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 14, 2019, 05:37:05 PM
I'm no theologian but I'm pretty Hell doesn't have open borders.

I've always imagined it as a giant pit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 15, 2019, 01:07:33 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 14, 2019, 06:47:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 14, 2019, 05:37:05 PM
I'm no theologian but I'm pretty Hell doesn't have open borders.

I've always imagined it as a giant pit.


The first level of Hell is walled off from the others.  Julius Caesar hangs and Aristotle hang out there.  It's nice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2019, 03:23:56 AM
Article shared by my niece's husband.

http://populist.media/2019/01/08/petition-to-remove-iihan-abdullahi-omar-from-congressional-position-for-participating-in-immigration-fraud-circulates-the-web/?fbclid=IwAR1_gTxTkWipTmT9vDmzfJLgjYNTKPxKJJztjmSfCqUpNhqNGnVcInBHIfY

QuotePetition To Remove Ilhan Abdullahi Omar From Congressional Position For Participating In Immigration Fraud Circulates The Web

A petition to remove the newly elected House Representative Ilhan Abdullahi Omar was created by an anonymous person that goes by the initials C.M. on January 5th, 2019. C.M.'s objective is not only to have Abdllahi Omar removed from her congressional position but to also have her arrested after committing immigration fraud by marrying her own brother, Ahmed Nur Said Elmi, in 2009 in order to give him U.S. citizenship. In 2011, Ilhan Abdullahi Omar married her current husband, Ahmed Hirsi, while still married to her brother. Ilhan Omar legally divorced her brother in December 2017.

Alpha News reported that the entire Omar family has a history of committing fraud, fraud that even precedes their infiltration of the refugee program to travel from their home country of Somalia to the U.K. and later the United States. The Wall Street Journal also published a relevant article in 2008 on the halt on the refugee program in Africa due to DNA tests proving that families had lied about their ties.

The link to the legal petition to remove the fraudulent congresswoman is provided below for those who wish to participate in keeping Washington D.C. clean from any new "swamp monsters". The petition will expire after 30 days and is required to have a minimum of 100,000 cyber signatures in order to be considered by Congress. The current number of signatures received is 6,817 as of today. At Populist Media, we encourage all of our dear patriots to stand up for our nation and sign the petition.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/removal-d-mn-iihan-abdullahi-omar-5th-congressional-district-her-participation-marriage-fraud
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 20, 2019, 03:41:44 AM
Was the marriage consummated?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2019, 04:20:19 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26805335_670284343096037_929992147639752276_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fe9dd8ac88e64e94df3af6966b18b533&oe=5CBD049C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 20, 2019, 07:27:59 PM
Wow. An offended person on the internet. How novel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 20, 2019, 11:09:48 PM
Universities run by socialist fascists? Lol. These people are really clueless.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 21, 2019, 12:46:24 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 20, 2019, 11:09:48 PM
Universities run by socialist fascists?

Ernst Rohm lives on in academia, apparently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2019, 04:55:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50264307_2312863555598213_7858537404209037312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ffeceb9986eb51b71b2e6b69e7703e83&oe=5CFDDDEC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on January 21, 2019, 05:02:17 AM
Doesn't that last one make a little sense now his side of the story is out there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on January 21, 2019, 06:16:36 AM
Tbf, that kid has an extremely punchable face.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on January 21, 2019, 06:57:34 AM
Yeah, the unfortunate thing is that that little piece of shit really is being unfairly maligned, but it's hard to effectively defend him when he's so intrinsically objectionable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2019, 09:33:59 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26805120_1562242133863822_4229310336291845912_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=242f911d834ee9e6ed2d7aa67ffff864&oe=5CC0AB90)

QuoteMarion Smith
12 hrs
For those of you that think we don't have an issue on the border... we do... a very large problem.. I grew up 5 miles off the border walking to the bus stop, riding my horse all over the county, even just being at home we had illegals everywhere!! We use to ride to the border and joke around crawling through the barb wire that we were like Pancho Villa.. I now live approximately 40-50 miles north of the border and have seen more activity up here compared to my childhood..we have had vehicle chases on our property, large groups come through, large amounts of unseen evidence of garbage, clothes, blankets and some have small children and young women, but the majority is younger males.. my daughter almost got hit by a pickup being chased into our driveway (which they drove their vehicle into our barn and wrecked)...large amounts of drugs, or just full of illegals this problem infuriates me...when my daughter come up to me with this in her hand and says "mom what is this?", it makes me even more mad for my children's safety in our own home.. it's not just the what if's its all the hard evidence over the years that everyone seems to be brushing off.. when I come home I check closets, and rooms just to make sure... no I do not want an enormous wall or a moat around my house.. I just want it taken care of for the safety in my home... this card was found in my driveway so obviously they came through at night because I am always home...Scary... don't care if they are nice, hungry.. or whatever it's just freggin scary...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 21, 2019, 09:58:45 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 21, 2019, 04:55:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50264307_2312863555598213_7858537404209037312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ffeceb9986eb51b71b2e6b69e7703e83&oe=5CFDDDEC)

Because MAGA hat? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 21, 2019, 11:44:45 AM
This is like a super weird story. White pro life Catholics, drum band native Americans, Black Israelites (didn't even know that was a thing)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 21, 2019, 11:54:13 AM
Seems like a non-story blown up by blowhards on social media.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 01:00:39 PM
Exactly. I have my own opinions on Cov Cath HS, but these kids didn't really do anything wrong. If anything I think Mr. Phillips owes these kids an apology for misreading the situation and trying to intimidate them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 21, 2019, 01:01:37 PM
They are racist/bigots, is that not enough for you, Der?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 01:30:25 PM
Who is?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 21, 2019, 01:50:09 PM
These kids
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 01:57:06 PM
Not the Black Hebrew Israelite group that was taunting them? What did the kids do that was racist and bigoted?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 21, 2019, 02:05:59 PM
Do? They are wearing MAGA Hats.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 21, 2019, 02:09:17 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 21, 2019, 02:05:59 PM
Do? They are wearing MAGA Hats.

I understand why the implication might be there, but I would hesitate to say that wearing a MAGA hat automatically makes one a racist.  In particular when you're an idiot teenager.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 21, 2019, 02:30:26 PM
Correlation is not causation!

But I suspect there is still a hell of a lot of correlation there...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 02:36:19 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 21, 2019, 02:05:59 PM
Do? They are wearing MAGA Hats.

And how does that make them racist?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 21, 2019, 02:38:59 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 02:36:19 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 21, 2019, 02:05:59 PM
Do? They are wearing MAGA Hats.

And how does that make them racist?

[...]You serious?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 21, 2019, 02:47:49 PM
A MAGA hat isn't a guarantor of racism, just a strong indicator of likelihood.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 21, 2019, 02:54:19 PM
And a very high likelihood that one is a douche.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 21, 2019, 03:04:16 PM
99%, I'd say. 1% wear them ironically.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 21, 2019, 03:26:19 PM
You can be a douche but still innocent of starting a race incident.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 21, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
I had never heard of Black Israelites either.  I wonder how they get along with Moorish Sovereign Citizens.

The whole thing has a bit of Rashoman to it.  My tentative position is that the MAGA kids started it all by chanting their school chant to drown out whatever the Black Israelite was proclaiming on his bullhorn, the Indians escalated with their in your face drumming, and MAGA kids raised by mocking the Indian chanting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 21, 2019, 04:15:30 PM
That's pretty much how I read it too.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 21, 2019, 04:25:26 PM
It's like Mardi Gras with no booze and no tits.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 04:34:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 21, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
I had never heard of Black Israelites either.  I wonder how they get along with Moorish Sovereign Citizens.

The whole thing has a bit of Rashoman to it.  My tentative position is that the MAGA kids started it all by chanting their school chant to drown out whatever the Black Israelite was proclaiming on his bullhorn, the Indians escalated with their in your face drumming, and MAGA kids raised by mocking the Indian chanting.

How did the high school kids start it all, when they were being verbally accosted by the BHI'ers in the first place?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 21, 2019, 04:37:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBhWUZ2pexw

You pre-empted me Speesh.  I was just going to post this. 

It's all on oooooh, ooooh, me Israelies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 21, 2019, 04:54:38 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 21, 2019, 03:04:16 PM
99%, I'd say. 1% wear them ironically.

Irony is hardly a defense. Why is it ironic with a black fly in the Chardonnay?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2019, 05:33:33 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50227144_366837674128263_7201802008041357312_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0a6162578367553db6414bdd6ae71e89&oe=5CCEEE84)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on January 21, 2019, 09:43:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 01:00:39 PM
Exactly. I have my own opinions on Cov Cath HS, but these kids didn't really do anything wrong. If anything I think Mr. Phillips owes these kids an apology for misreading the situation and trying to intimidate them.
:lmfao:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 22, 2019, 07:41:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11037083_665299426936572_7584068021651261000_n.png?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c01036a8e758d3ce9dd3f1ea975d8d01&oe=5CB4C5E8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 08:51:57 AM
So glad that brand new idea is still being debated.

I don't get how any of those besides "black pride" are really comparable. I mean white people can be from Asia, Muslim, or Mexican. Those aren't skin color things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: katmai on January 21, 2019, 09:43:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 01:00:39 PM
Exactly. I have my own opinions on Cov Cath HS, but these kids didn't really do anything wrong. If anything I think Mr. Phillips owes these kids an apology for misreading the situation and trying to intimidate them.
:lmfao:



Go on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 09:28:41 AM
I am glad we finally found a way for Spicey to support Catholics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 09:48:34 AM
No shit.  I think i've even posted about my disdain for this particular school here in the past.  Cov Cath is like Duke of Catholic high schools-- and you guys are making me defend them! :lol: :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 09:51:07 AM
Thanks to this incident and some goofball Gizmodo writer I am now aware that "weaponized smirking" is apparently a thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Legbiter on January 22, 2019, 09:56:31 AM
Manufactured culture war clickbait.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 10:02:25 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 09:48:34 AM
No shit.  I think i've even posted about my disdain for this particular school here in the past.  Cov Cath is like Duke of Catholic high schools-- and you guys are making me defend them! :lol: :angry:

Hey I couldn't care less about this...um...whatever it is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 10:19:15 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on January 22, 2019, 09:56:31 AM
Manufactured culture war clickbait.

Local lefty activists were in a frenzy over this.  And I guess some still are.  They had to cancel classes today at the school due to security concerns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 10:21:03 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 10:19:15 AM
They had to cancel classes today at the school due to security concerns.


:blink:

Oh FFS

I guess they have to wait for 15 minutes for the next dumbass shit to come along.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 10:25:39 AM
Trump will steal the spotlight again soon, just wait. MLK Day was a holiday and well--time for more government shutdown articles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 10:27:49 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 10:25:39 AM
Trump will steal the spotlight again soon, just wait. MLK Day was a holiday and well--time for more government shutdown articles.

Maybe we should be grateful for the President keeping the outrage cycle occupied with himself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 22, 2019, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 21, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
I had never heard of Black Israelites either.  I wonder how they get along with Moorish Sovereign Citizens.



I think I might have met some of the guys, or people very similar.  They were like Blacks who had half-converted to Judaism.  They weren't mean or nasty though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 10:42:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 10:27:49 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 10:25:39 AM
Trump will steal the spotlight again soon, just wait. MLK Day was a holiday and well--time for more government shutdown articles.

Maybe we should be grateful for the President keeping the outrage cycle occupied with himself.

I know I am. If he were more competent, he'd be so much more dangerous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:00:38 AM
Quote from: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 10:19:15 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on January 22, 2019, 09:56:31 AM
Manufactured culture war clickbait.

Local lefty activists were in a frenzy over this.  And I guess some still are.  They had to cancel classes today at the school due to security concerns.

Looks like the Twitter account that popularized this video was likely "bad actor" trying to sow discord.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html

QuoteIn one indicator of the @2020fight's video's virality, multiple newsrooms, including some national American outlets, reached out to the user asking them directly about the video.
McDonagh said he found the account suspicious due to its "high follower count, highly polarized and yet inconsistent political messaging, the unusually high rate of tweets, and the use of someone else's image in the profile photo."
Molly McKew, an information warfare researcher who saw the tweet and shared it herself on Saturday, said she later realized that a network of anonymous accounts were working to amplify the video.

Speaking about the nature of fake accounts on social media, McKew told CNN Business, "This is the new landscape: where bad actors monitor us and appropriate content that fits their needs. They know how to get it where they need to go so it amplifies naturally. And at this point, we are all conditioned to react and engage or deny in specific ways. And we all did."
Twitter's rules forbid users from creating "fake and misleading accounts," and shortly after CNN Business asked Twitter about the account, it was suspended.

America got trolled by Russia again  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:07:22 AM
American cultural and social cohesion is so bad right now that anybody can just blast out a cherry-picked video clip from some relatively unimportant non-event and embroil an entire nation in useless and counterproductive tribalistic vitriol against itself.

Lol

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:00:38 AM
America got trolled by Russia again  :lol:

Our chattering internet warrior class deserves it. Anything that confirms their biases deceives them. I mean hell I don't think many of them even care if a story is true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 11:09:14 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:07:22 AM
American cultural and social cohesion is so bad right now that anybody can just blast out a cherry-picked video clip from some relatively unimportant non-event and embroil an entire nation in useless and counterproductive tribalistic vitriol against itself.

Lol

Yep. It is embarrassing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 22, 2019, 11:10:15 AM
Have actual people (beyond those calling in death threats) been that worked up? Obviously, I'm not in America so all I've seen are the torrent of news articles and what I've seen here on Languish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:11:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 22, 2019, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 21, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
I had never heard of Black Israelites either.  I wonder how they get along with Moorish Sovereign Citizens.



I think I might have met some of the guys, or people very similar.  They were like Blacks who had half-converted to Judaism.  They weren't mean or nasty though.

They have some affiliated groups around here who yell and harass people at Metro stations. They're assholes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 22, 2019, 11:10:15 AM
Have actual people (beyond those calling in death threats) been that worked up? Obviously, I'm not in America so all I've seen are the torrent of news articles and what I've seen here on Languish.

Nobody I know. But the very fact there is a series of news articles is kind of ridiculous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 11:18:38 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:11:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 22, 2019, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 21, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
I had never heard of Black Israelites either.  I wonder how they get along with Moorish Sovereign Citizens.



I think I might have met some of the guys, or people very similar.  They were like Blacks who had half-converted to Judaism.  They weren't mean or nasty though.

They have some affiliated groups around here who yell and harass people at Metro stations. They're assholes.

They believe that black people are the lost tribes of Israel right? I recall hearing they have some dangerous cultish tendencies but I don't remember any details.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 22, 2019, 11:23:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 22, 2019, 11:10:15 AM
Have actual people (beyond those calling in death threats) been that worked up? Obviously, I'm not in America so all I've seen are the torrent of news articles and what I've seen here on Languish.

My niece's husband's Facebook timeline has 6 shared "OMG STOOPID/EVIL LIBZ" stories over the last 24 hours. He's an Army Sergeant, so I guess that technically qualifies as "actual person."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 22, 2019, 11:25:08 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:07:22 AM
American cultural and social cohesion is so bad right now that anybody can just blast out a cherry-picked video clip from some relatively unimportant non-event and embroil an entire nation in useless and counterproductive tribalistic vitriol against itself.

Lol

Well it's not just anybody.  The CNN article pointed out there was a whole network of accounts that helped share and spread the video clip.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 22, 2019, 11:28:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 22, 2019, 11:10:15 AM
Have actual people (beyond those calling in death threats) been that worked up? Obviously, I'm not in America so all I've seen are the torrent of news articles and what I've seen here on Languish.

Nobody I know. But the very fact there is a series of news articles is kind of ridiculous.

100% agree.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 22, 2019, 11:32:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 22, 2019, 11:10:15 AM
Have actual people (beyond those calling in death threats) been that worked up? Obviously, I'm not in America so all I've seen are the torrent of news articles and what I've seen here on Languish.

It's been a big thing on the obvious websites (the many heads of what was once gawker), and in the news cycle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 22, 2019, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 22, 2019, 11:28:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 22, 2019, 11:10:15 AM
Have actual people (beyond those calling in death threats) been that worked up? Obviously, I'm not in America so all I've seen are the torrent of news articles and what I've seen here on Languish.

Nobody I know. But the very fact there is a series of news articles is kind of ridiculous.

100% agree.


I blame the extreme short attention spans the media is competing for in this age. I mean, they have to compete not just with other news for attention, but with Instagram feeds of half-naked models, friends' Facebook feeds of ideal holidays spent 24/7 smiling and feeling great, etc. Perpetual moral outrage is their only tool. Ain't nobody got time for "alright let's step back a bit and take a deep breath before jumping to conclusions" articles, unless these are in fact setups for counter-rage rage articles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 22, 2019, 11:55:06 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:07:22 AM
American cultural and social cohesion is so bad right now that anybody can just blast out a cherry-picked video clip from some relatively unimportant non-event and embroil an entire nation in useless and counterproductive tribalistic vitriol against itself.

Lol

The 2.0 Web was/is a mistake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 22, 2019, 11:59:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 22, 2019, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 21, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
I had never heard of Black Israelites either.  I wonder how they get along with Moorish Sovereign Citizens.



I think I might have met some of the guys, or people very similar.  They were like Blacks who had half-converted to Judaism.  They weren't mean or nasty though.

So basically Faux Falashas.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 12:10:52 PM
I didn't look much at Twitter until Sunday night, which was when the additional videos had been posted.  Seems like most of the outrage posts died down a bit after that point, but a fair number of people were sticking to their guns or even doubling down on their outrage.

My lefty local Facebook friends seemed pretty upset.  At most, they posted contact info for the school and diocese, encouraging people to call and complain. 

Thankfully my friends were more restrained than the SJW shock troops putting in all that time to dox the kids and their families (sometimes entirely the wrong people, but hey I guess that's just unavoidable collateral damage in the Culture War).  Then of course some encouraged violence on the smiling kid and some others.  Icing on the cake for me was the 'weaponized smirking' thing I mentioned earlier.

I've always believed that sometime in the future, people will mature and figure out how to act responsibly with social media.  Hopefully it's a matter of years rather than decades.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 12:13:37 PM
You seem outraged by the outrage. Russians win again. It's too easy these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 12:15:13 PM
Dox?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 12:15:13 PM
Dox?

Finding and releasing personal information, like cell phone numbers, home address, workplace, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 12:25:05 PM
obrigado
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 12:13:37 PM
You seem outraged by the outrage. Russians win again. It's too easy these days.

They have certainly found our weakness. Thank God we didn't have widespread internet use during the Cold War or we would all be in re-education camps right now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 12:33:43 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 12:13:37 PM
You seem outraged by the outrage. Russians win again. It's too easy these days.

Ooh-- good one.  Now call me a snowflake! :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 12:34:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 12:13:37 PM
You seem outraged by the outrage. Russians win again. It's too easy these days.

They have certainly found our weakness. Thank God we didn't have widespread internet use during the Cold War or we would all be in re-education camps right now.

WOLVERINES!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on January 22, 2019, 12:38:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:28:16 PM

They have certainly found our weakness. Thank God we didn't have widespread internet use during the Cold War or we would all be in re-education camps right now.

It doesn't look like just our weakness, it appears to be worldwide.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 22, 2019, 12:40:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 12:13:37 PM
You seem outraged by the outrage. Russians win again. It's too easy these days.

They have certainly found our weakness. Thank God we didn't have widespread internet use during the Cold War or we would all be in re-education camps right now.

Don't you have to be educated to be re-educated?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: frunk on January 22, 2019, 12:38:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:28:16 PM

They have certainly found our weakness. Thank God we didn't have widespread internet use during the Cold War or we would all be in re-education camps right now.

It doesn't look like just our weakness, it appears to be worldwide.

Yeah Zoupa shouldn't get too smug.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 22, 2019, 12:51:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: frunk on January 22, 2019, 12:38:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:28:16 PM

They have certainly found our weakness. Thank God we didn't have widespread internet use during the Cold War or we would all be in re-education camps right now.

It doesn't look like just our weakness, it appears to be worldwide.

Yeah Zoupa shouldn't get too smug.

:lol:

Can a leopard change its spots?
Is he not French?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 22, 2019, 12:52:49 PM
He's the worst kind of French (or the best). One that doesn't live in France.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 02:05:09 PM
Donald invited the Covington HS kids to the White House.  :lol:

The Russians/Chinese/Norks/Space Aliens really hit it out of the park with this one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 02:06:07 PM
Good Lord :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 02:07:23 PM
 :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on January 22, 2019, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: katmai on January 21, 2019, 09:43:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 01:00:39 PM
Exactly. I have my own opinions on Cov Cath HS, but these kids didn't really do anything wrong. If anything I think Mr. Phillips owes these kids an apology for misreading the situation and trying to intimidate them.
:lmfao:



Go on.
An apology to the kids? give me a fucking break.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 22, 2019, 02:17:44 PM
Please tell me the school and parents are smart enough to decline...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 02:25:34 PM
Don't forget to buy Filet-O-Fish Mr. President (you pay!).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 02:27:37 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 22, 2019, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: katmai on January 21, 2019, 09:43:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 21, 2019, 01:00:39 PM
Exactly. I have my own opinions on Cov Cath HS, but these kids didn't really do anything wrong. If anything I think Mr. Phillips owes these kids an apology for misreading the situation and trying to intimidate them.
:lmfao:



Go on.
An apology to the kids? give me a fucking break.

A grown man walking up and beating a drum inches away from some 16/17 year old's face, then lying multiple times to try to make it sound like the kids were harassing him?

Yeah, I think an apology would be appropriate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:23:10 PM
Don't get your panties in a bunch now. Just go have a craft beer and think about the wall.  :console:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:27:14 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 22, 2019, 12:51:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: frunk on January 22, 2019, 12:38:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 12:28:16 PM

They have certainly found our weakness. Thank God we didn't have widespread internet use during the Cold War or we would all be in re-education camps right now.

It doesn't look like just our weakness, it appears to be worldwide.

Yeah Zoupa shouldn't get too smug.

:lol:

Can a leopard change its spots?
Is he not French?

Well, Brits and Yanks got Brexit/Trump in part with active measures help from Russia. Putin funneled cash and directed his trolls to help Le Pen and she lost by 40%.

I feel my smugness is perfectly justified :frog:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 04:32:07 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:23:10 PM
Don't get your panties in a bunch now. Just go have a craft beer and think about the wall.  :console:

:hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 04:36:18 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:27:14 PM
Well, Brits and Yanks got Brexit/Trump in part with active measures help from Russia. Putin funneled cash and directed his trolls to help Le Pen and she lost by 40%.

I feel my smugness is perfectly justified :frog:

Your smugness in this case looks a lot like tribalism.

You say outrage at people's reactions who happen to be on your side is unacceptable.  But I haven't seen you apply the same principle to outrage over reactions by people who are on the other side.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 04:38:35 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:27:14 PM
I feel my smugness is perfectly justified :frog:

Hey I never said you shouldn't be a justified level of smug :frog:

But I remember a time when Le Pen lost by 60 points -_-

Stay vigilant!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 04:44:18 PM
Does derspiess support the wall?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 04:36:18 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:27:14 PM
Well, Brits and Yanks got Brexit/Trump in part with active measures help from Russia. Putin funneled cash and directed his trolls to help Le Pen and she lost by 40%.

I feel my smugness is perfectly justified :frog:

Your smugness in this case looks a lot like tribalism.

You say outrage at people's reactions who happen to be on your side is unacceptable.  But I haven't seen you apply the same principle to outrage over reactions by people who are on the other side.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Are we still talking about the douche teenagers with the native drum guy? Tempest in a teapot. The kids acted like assholes and will probably grow up to be useless, otoh native drum guy inserted himself into a situation with a bunch of bored teenagers. Don't go looking for it dude.

Why the hell is this news?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 04:44:18 PM
Does derspiess support the wall?  :hmm:

Of course not. HE VOTED THIRD PARTY OK!!!!1111
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:47:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 04:38:35 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:27:14 PM
I feel my smugness is perfectly justified :frog:

Hey I never said you shouldn't be a justified level of smug :frog:

But I remember a time when Le Pen lost by 60 points -_-

Stay vigilant!

Indeed. Still, en ces temps difficiles, il convient d'accorder notre mépris avec parcimonie, tant nombreux sont les nécéssiteux.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Legbiter on January 22, 2019, 04:49:20 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:00:38 AM

Looks like the Twitter account that popularized this video was likely "bad actor" trying to sow discord.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html

QuoteMolly McKew, an information warfare researcher who saw the tweet and shared it herself on Saturday, said she later realized that a network of anonymous accounts were working to amplify the video.


This moron is a self-styled 'information warfare expert' according to her twatter bio.  :frusty:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 22, 2019, 05:12:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 02:27:37 PM


A grown man walking up and beating a drum inches away from some 16/17 year old's face, then lying multiple times to try to make it sound like the kids were harassing him?

Yeah, I think an apology would be appropriate.


Finally, Derspeiss take a stand against ethno-nationalism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 04:44:18 PM
Does derspiess support the wall?  :hmm:

We ought to do a Languish poll to find out :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 05:58:51 PM
We only need one vote in that poll for a conclusion, though.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 06:03:44 PM
Not really. Languish usually tells my *real* positions are. And whether I'm really joking when I make jokes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 22, 2019, 06:13:22 PM
You poor martyr, you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 06:20:35 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
Your smugness in this case looks a lot like tribalism.

You say outrage at people's reactions who happen to be on your side is unacceptable.  But I haven't seen you apply the same principle to outrage over reactions by people who are on the other side.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Are we still talking about the douche teenagers with the native drum guy? Tempest in a teapot. The kids acted like assholes and will probably grow up to be useless, otoh native drum guy inserted himself into a situation with a bunch of bored teenagers. Don't go looking for it dude.

Why the hell is this news?
[/quote]

You left out that the Black Israelite dude started it by calling them children of incest, but otherwise I generally agree.

My criticism is about your selectivity in what people can be outraged about.  Here's a case where your guys were in the wrong and plenty of lefties piled on the outrage about the MAGA punks. Their outrage doesn't draw any comment from you, yet when Speesh is quote unquote outraged by their outrage the problem lies in the arrangement of his underwear.

Outrage is pretty much the only output of the political comedy shows, but I've never seen you criticizing them.  Outrage is the whole point of the excercise for the campus PC crowd.  No comment from you.

So bottom line: you only object to outrage when it's directed at your guys.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 06:54:27 PM
You need to differentiate outrage from real issues. Political comedy shows like Colbert or John Oliver? Colbert is a late night comedy show. What exactly should I criticize? It's comedy. It's not pretending to be news.

John Oliver talks about a bunch of different subjects. You can tell he's anti-GOP/Trump but which sane person isn't these days?

I'm not sure what your point is. Of course I'm biased. I don't think I'm some kind of sjw or something. I'm an old-school socialist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 07:03:37 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 06:54:27 PM
You need to differentiate outrage from real issues. Political comedy shows like Colbert or John Oliver? Colbert is a late night comedy show. What exactly should I criticize? It's comedy. It's not pretending to be news.

John Oliver talks about a bunch of different subjects. You can tell he's anti-GOP/Trump but which sane person isn't these days?

I'm not sure what your point is. Of course I'm biased. I don't think I'm some kind of sjw or something. I'm an old-school socialist.

My point is that in differentiating outrage from real issues, you're biased.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 07:06:48 PM
That's not much of a point dude. Everybody is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 07:12:52 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 07:06:48 PM
That's not much of a point dude. Everybody is.

If you concede that, where does that leave you in terms of telling Speesh what he can't be outraged about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 07:24:24 PM
I ain't saying he can't be outraged. I find it funny that he needs a safe space from the mean 80 year old native drummer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 07:28:08 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 07:24:24 PM
I ain't saying he can't be outraged. I find it funny that he needs a safe space from the mean 80 year old native drummer.

You're playing semantics.  Finding it funny, mocking, saying he can't, there's really no difference.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 07:31:30 PM
64-year old, not 80.  And apparently he wasn't in Nam FWIW.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 07:33:20 PM
You're over analyzing. Of course he can do/feel whatever he wants. What am I, the arbiter of good taste? I'm just busting his balls because he usually goes on and on about the pc culture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 07:33:57 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 22, 2019, 07:31:30 PM
64-year old, not 80.  And apparently he wasn't in Nam FWIW.

Omg who the fuck cares  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 07:56:01 PM
QuoteSarah Sanders says that WH has reached out to the Covington Catholic kids and invited them to the WH but any meeting would take place after the shutdown.

https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1087861143240994816

YESSSSSS  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 07:57:34 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on January 22, 2019, 04:49:20 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on January 22, 2019, 11:00:38 AM

Looks like the Twitter account that popularized this video was likely "bad actor" trying to sow discord.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html

QuoteMolly McKew, an information warfare researcher who saw the tweet and shared it herself on Saturday, said she later realized that a network of anonymous accounts were working to amplify the video.


This moron is a self-styled 'information warfare expert' according to her twatter bio.  :frusty:

Hell yes  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 22, 2019, 11:03:02 PM
Ian Bogost's take on the Student vs Elder kerfuffle: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/viral-clash-students-and-native-americans-explained/580906/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2019, 11:34:36 PM
I found that article to be utter bullshit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 22, 2019, 11:52:23 PM
Why?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 23, 2019, 12:02:28 AM
I don't even buy the old man's narrative after seeing the first video. What I see is him drumming in a kid's face while the kid smiles awkwardly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2019, 12:28:56 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 22, 2019, 11:52:23 PM
Why?

Because it's an exercise in sophistry to avoid blaming the BI's for starting all the shit and the Indians for amplifying the shit.  Yes, the original video does demonstrate that editing can change perception.  And the second, longer video corrects at least some of the flawed perception of the first video.

"The kids were originally accused of gross racism.  But it turns out the real story is so complex!  Can we ever know the truth?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 23, 2019, 12:44:55 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2019, 12:28:56 AM
Because it's an exercise in sophistry to avoid blaming the BI's for starting all the shit and the Indians for amplifying the shit.  Yes, the original video does demonstrate that editing can change perception.  And the second, longer video corrects at least some of the flawed perception of the first video.

"The kids were originally accused of gross racism.  But it turns out the real story is so complex!  Can we ever know the truth?"

The point of the article is not to ascribe blame to anyone on the event (there's plenty of that out there, including on the Atlantic, if you are interested). The point is to reiterate that our hopes that "a" video, can ever stand for the fullness of truth is flawed. It is indeed a simple point, but still, it seems we continuously cling to the hope that video could eventually show reality unmediated, despite our living in an age of constant media production, and editing. Nowhere does he mention that truth is unknowable. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2019, 12:59:28 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 23, 2019, 12:44:55 AM
The point of the article is not to ascribe blame to anyone on the event (there's plenty of that out there, including on the Atlantic, if you are interested). The point is to reiterate that our hopes that "a" video, can ever stand for the fullness of truth is flawed. It is indeed a simple point, but still, it seems we continuously cling to the hope that video could eventually show reality unmediated, despite our living in an age of constant media production, and editing. Nowhere does he mention that truth is unknowable.

That's what i said.  The point of the article is to avoid assigning blame.  The rest is window dressing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 23, 2019, 01:07:24 AM
So the only reason to write about this is to assign blame?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2019, 01:43:48 AM
That's a pretty silly question.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 23, 2019, 01:54:54 AM
Then I don't understand your objection .
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 23, 2019, 08:12:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 22, 2019, 04:38:35 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on January 22, 2019, 04:27:14 PM
I feel my smugness is perfectly justified :frog:

Hey I never said you shouldn't be a justified level of smug :frog:

But I remember a time when Le Pen lost by 60 points -_-

Stay vigilant!

Macron won with 66% vs Marine 34 %, with a lot of blank and null votes, not to mention a very high abstention for a run-off. Hardly a reason to feel smug.  Not to mention the current situation...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 23, 2019, 11:36:51 AM
I blame Moses.  He was a prophet and so should have had the foresight to copyright the Tanakh and put a stop to all the rip off imitations.  Had he done that, there would be no Christian students and certainly no fake "Hebrew Israelites".  All that would have been left is one native guy alone with his drum.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2019, 12:39:51 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 23, 2019, 01:54:54 AM
Then I don't understand your objection .

My objection is this: the edited perception thesis does not apply to the second, longer video, the one that includes incest babies and, to a lesser extent, the Indian drum rush.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 24, 2019, 03:02:17 AM
Should I be worried that my two oldest sisters are shifting away from posting Fox News articles and more towards Daily Caller and Daily Signal? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 24, 2019, 08:10:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2019, 03:02:17 AM
Should I be worried that my two oldest sisters are shifting away from posting Fox News articles and more towards Daily Caller and Daily Signal? :unsure:

The time to become worried is long past.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 24, 2019, 08:19:59 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 24, 2019, 08:10:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2019, 03:02:17 AM
Should I be worried that my two oldest sisters are shifting away from posting Fox News articles and more towards Daily Caller and Daily Signal? :unsure:

The time to become worried is long past.

This could become the stock comment for much of the political stuff we know post about on Languish.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 24, 2019, 08:40:00 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2019, 03:02:17 AM
Should I be worried that my two oldest sisters are shifting away from posting Fox News articles and more towards Daily Caller and Daily Signal? :unsure:

Yes. Gateway drugs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 24, 2019, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2019, 03:02:17 AM
Should I be worried that my two oldest sisters are shifting away from posting Fox News articles and more towards Daily Caller and Daily Signal? :unsure:


Well the Daily Caller has a serious white nationalist problem.  It's unseemly for Germans to go that route.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 24, 2019, 10:12:40 AM
Look how his steady diet of Breitbart nourishes Raz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 24, 2019, 10:13:45 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2019, 03:02:17 AM
Should I be worried that my two oldest sisters are shifting away from posting Fox News articles and more towards Daily Caller and Daily Signal? :unsure:

Fox News is too leftist for them now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 24, 2019, 12:40:26 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 24, 2019, 10:12:40 AM
Look how his steady diet of Breitbart nourishes Raz.


Why don't you explain clearly what you are trying to get at.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 24, 2019, 01:01:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 24, 2019, 12:40:26 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 24, 2019, 10:12:40 AM
Look how his steady diet of Breitbart nourishes Raz.


Why don't you explain clearly what you are trying to get at.

Yes, Syt should worry.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 26, 2019, 04:58:56 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50466334_1050403625299643_7249354541617905664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=451cdb5a6f6b922f2b43d949f32771ec&oe=5CBE4A41)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50019045_10217915305499728_3959254995534086144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8927ce9c157821a3312c28b987a84032&oe=5CFEA033)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50274391_813262252342654_541638901224177664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=26150655e711eaed5f5018c52ca0a5fa&oe=5CB693CB)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50632795_2315692905315278_621069957676924928_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=966815d9e9fb3c3a871ff0b5022ef151&oe=5CC8CEC4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 27, 2019, 04:38:41 PM
Story: https://kobi5.com/news/deadly-eugene-middle-school-shooting-caught-on-camera-94535/

QuoteEUGENE, Ore. (KGW) – Police in Eugene, Oregon have released officers' body camera video from a fatal shooting at a middle school earlier this month.

Charles Frederick Landeros, 30, was shot and killed by police after he pulled out a gun during a struggle following a custodial dispute at Cascade Middle School on January 11th.

The Lane County District Attorney ruled that the officers were justified in their use of deadly force.

According to the district attorney's office, Landeros enrolled his daughter at Cascade Middle School the week of the shooting without telling the girl's mother, who shares custody of their daughter and had exclusive control over where she attended school. On the day of the shooting, the girl's mother went to the school to find out if her daughter was enrolled there. School personnel contacted Landeros, who also went to the school.

The struggle that led to the shooting began when school resource officers asked Landeros to leave the building and he refused. By coincidence, his daughter arrived in the hallway and he yelled at her to "go" repeatedly, the district attorney's office said.

Landeros' daughter witnessed the struggle and shooting, according to the district attorney's office.


Cut and dry story.


The way my sister posts the story on Facebook, courtesy of "Stranger than fiction news":

QuoteSTRANGER THAN FICTION NEWS
Yesterday at 2:00 PM ·  ·
BREAKING: ANTIFA SHOT DEAD IN MIDDLE SCHOOL AFTER PULLING GUN ON COPS - BODYCAM FOOTAGE CAPTURES THE ENTIRE INCIDENT

The page seems ... trustworthy. https://www.facebook.com/STFNREPORT/ :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 27, 2019, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 26, 2019, 04:58:56 PM

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50019045_10217915305499728_3959254995534086144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8927ce9c157821a3312c28b987a84032&oe=5CFEA033)




I wonder what she means by this...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:23:19 PM
The Landeros guy was a left-wing activist. Not sure if Antifa or not but probably close enough. He apparently had a lot of spare ammo in his backpack so it could have been a lot uglier.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 27, 2019, 06:25:55 PM
What does left wing of right wing have to do with it?

It was a custody dispute.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:27:36 PM
Maybe nothing. But he was wearing a shirt with a leftwing slogan on it. You know if he were wearing a MAGA hat that image would be plastered all over the place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 27, 2019, 06:28:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:27:36 PM
Maybe nothing. But he was wearing a shirt with a leftwing slogan on it. You know if he were wearing a MAGA hat that image would be plastered all over the place.

Ah, so fake news.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 27, 2019, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:23:19 PM
The Landeros guy was a left-wing activist. Not sure if Antifa or not but probably close enough. He apparently had a lot of spare ammo in his backpack so it could have been a lot uglier.


Just like being a member of the NRA is "Probably close enough" to being an SS officer. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:46:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 27, 2019, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:23:19 PM
The Landeros guy was a left-wing activist. Not sure if Antifa or not but probably close enough. He apparently had a lot of spare ammo in his backpack so it could have been a lot uglier.


Just like being a member of the NRA is "Probably close enough" to being an SS officer. :rolleyes:

You sure you want to use that analogy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 27, 2019, 06:52:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:46:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 27, 2019, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:23:19 PM
The Landeros guy was a left-wing activist. Not sure if Antifa or not but probably close enough. He apparently had a lot of spare ammo in his backpack so it could have been a lot uglier.


Just like being a member of the NRA is "Probably close enough" to being an SS officer. :rolleyes:


You sure you want to use that analogy?

Nah.  The NRA has been taking money from the Russians.  I don't think the SS would ever stoop that low.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:52:45 PM
Forgot to mention that Landeros was a member of a leftwing Militia-type group and had posted online about killing cops shortly before this incident, in which he shot at the cop and then himself was shot and killed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2019, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 27, 2019, 06:25:55 PM
What does left wing of right wing have to do with it?

It was a custody dispute.

All politics on some level is a popularity contest.

You're not supposed to pull a gun in a custody dispute.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 27, 2019, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:52:45 PM
Forgot to mention that Landeros was a member of a leftwing Militia-type group and had posted online about killing cops shortly before this incident, in which he shot at the cop and then himself was shot and killed.

Well he is dead so now you can celebrate.

Tons of custody battles end tragically especially when nutters are involved. But if you are so desperate to make this some kind of political win for your side go right ahead.

QuoteYou know if he were wearing a MAGA hat that image would be plastered all over the place.

Not by me it wouldn't. Fuck that shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 07:42:52 PM
Who said I was celebrating? I'm not happy that they are dead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 27, 2019, 09:02:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 07:42:52 PM
Who said I was celebrating? I'm not happy that they are dead.

Really? You describe him as a dangerous terrorist militia member preparing to murder cops.

And you seem to be justifying the fringe nutter media Syr referenced trying to use him as some sort of bogeyman to generate paranoia and hatred on their side.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 10:24:31 PM
Yeah, really. Their daughter watched the whole thing. They were (was?) a dangerous nutter, but I wish they had gotten help instead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 27, 2019, 11:28:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:52:45 PM
Forgot to mention that Landeros was a member of a leftwing Militia-type group and had posted online about killing cops shortly before this incident, in which he shot at the cop and then himself was shot and killed.


So is this big news in Trump world?  More evidence that all violence comes from the left and conservatives need to buy more guns for when the time comes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on January 27, 2019, 11:30:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 27, 2019, 06:23:19 PM
The Landeros guy was a left-wing activist. Not sure if Antifa or not but probably close enough. He apparently had a lot of spare ammo in his backpack so it could have been a lot uglier.
Wait, so left wing activist = Antifa, or probably close enough?

Does this mean that the Left can say after a killing "Right wing activist = Nazi domestic terrorist, or probably close enough?"

Do we not see something wrong with this line of discourse?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on January 28, 2019, 12:14:30 AM
I was careless in posting that. I had more info to show this person to be a dangerous nutter, but neglected to mention it at the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on February 01, 2019, 05:33:52 AM
18 months Facebook-clean!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dawz9sjU8AA1I_C.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 01, 2019, 08:23:59 AM
Quote from: celedhring on February 01, 2019, 05:33:52 AM
18 months Facebook-clean!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dawz9sjU8AA1I_C.jpg)

:cool:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 01, 2019, 10:34:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 27, 2019, 06:52:00 PM
Nah.  The NRA has been taking money from the Russians.  I don't think the SS would ever stoop that low.

Are you talking about the SS that pillaged its way through Russia?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 01, 2019, 12:31:44 PM
Don't let reality get in the way of a good zinger.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 01, 2019, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2019, 03:02:17 AM
Should I be worried that my two oldest sisters are shifting away from posting Fox News articles and more towards Daily Caller and Daily Signal? :unsure:

The last set of facebook grabs you posted are pretty disturbing.  And not in a disturbing because they are so obviously wrong sort of way but in a disturbing disturbing way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 01, 2019, 12:57:20 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 01, 2019, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2019, 03:02:17 AM
Should I be worried that my two oldest sisters are shifting away from posting Fox News articles and more towards Daily Caller and Daily Signal? :unsure:

The last set of facebook grabs you posted are pretty disturbing.  And not in a disturbing because they are so obviously wrong sort of way but in a disturbing disturbing way.

I think its a natural (d)evolution.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2019, 03:07:03 AM
I can take consolation that for all the nonsense my family shares on Facebook, they have yet to reach the levels of the posts in this subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/insanepeoplefacebook/

Some of that shit is really disturbing.

Also, I now have a yardstick as to when to stage an intervention. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on February 06, 2019, 03:35:00 AM
How does it compare to r/forwardsfromklandma?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2019, 03:40:15 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 06, 2019, 03:35:00 AM
How does it compare to r/forwardsfromklandma?

IMHO worse.

(https://preview.redd.it/bfhmqudimte21.jpg?width=511&auto=webp&s=705a27d2b2bf17e4f59e2f58c16290c09b0bae70)

(https://preview.redd.it/4gt3nrm3ete21.jpg?width=658&auto=webp&s=1c4a4b2c40d7f236d9fcda2f854ce9d054894bf2)

(https://preview.redd.it/pbw0jk61nve21.jpg?width=700&auto=webp&s=a390bcd0829b1a4bb5a0cf1ee51eb064092a2aea)

(https://i.imgur.com/tXmUKBB.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on February 06, 2019, 03:47:18 AM
Jesus Christ
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on February 06, 2019, 04:48:30 AM
Those memes are starting to sound like the Time Cube guy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 15, 2019, 12:36:33 AM
I'd love to get the source for that period diet :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 15, 2019, 12:51:51 AM
Well that's disturbing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 15, 2019, 01:27:19 AM
Dumb bitch, your kid died.  How could the outcome have possibly been worse for him?  Well, living and having you raise him would be worse, I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 15, 2019, 01:59:10 AM
Not from my family.

(https://preview.redd.it/shlsc18zikg21.png?width=495&auto=webp&s=336bdd8c5437793da3da7e30d7e13156e0bb7f91)


Also, early entry for mother of the year:

(https://preview.redd.it/ww7f1yrxeng21.jpg?width=544&auto=webp&s=a5cd92aa3322d23286321c61981271f0335c7347)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2019, 02:40:53 AM
AIDS post is clearly a troll.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 15, 2019, 02:46:22 AM
I really can't tell anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on February 15, 2019, 09:32:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 15, 2019, 02:46:22 AM
I really can't tell anymore.

For me it doesn't matter which it is.  Either the writer is dumb or an asshole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 15, 2019, 11:52:13 AM
This is from my sister:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27750091_797054907156718_7319401931426526191_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fa97646b53c72c3a9deeeab21ada2706&oe=5CF687AD)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51659909_2479395392090259_3121815726629847040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4389584e1c14a0e7931c98d646f4404b&oe=5CFC3504)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 15, 2019, 12:08:16 PM
 :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 15, 2019, 12:09:43 PM
Man I cannot wait to become more and powerful than the rest of the world combined.

Why are we worried about the Russians having Uranium? They are one of the top producers of Uranium in the world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 15, 2019, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2019, 12:09:43 PM
Man I cannot wait to become more and powerful than the rest of the world combined.

Why are we worried about the Russians having Uranium? They are one of the top producers of Uranium in the world.


The American right has morphed the Uranium one story into "Hillary gave all our weapons grade Uranium to Russia".  I guess that solves a conundrum for them.  If the Uranium One deal was crooked, why hasn't Trump simply seized the mine as the proceeds of a criminal conspiracy.  If you come to believe that it's stockpiles of fissile material then that question doesn't come up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 15, 2019, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2019, 12:09:43 PM
Man I cannot wait to become more and powerful than the rest of the world combined.

+1
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 15, 2019, 02:38:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 15, 2019, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2019, 12:09:43 PM
Man I cannot wait to become more and powerful than the rest of the world combined.

+1

Guess you guys are jealous of grumbler for having been around in 1945.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 15, 2019, 06:29:19 PM
Quote from: dps on February 15, 2019, 02:38:45 PM
Guess you guys are jealous of grumbler for having been around in 1945.

We had some good innings.  Sorry about the global warming thing, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 16, 2019, 03:23:11 AM
Well, of course my sisters share this, too. :P

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52188140_2538443809517682_6092362219763269632_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9da9355ef4d4e241ddecf133f571b7e6&oe=5D262519)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50816671_2431500850212483_4301114326208479232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=35e085cb19f889bbb65c7c18b6d926c0&oe=5CE27FB7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 17, 2019, 04:04:38 AM
Random crazy person:

(https://i.imgur.com/A6spsoA.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 17, 2019, 04:38:01 PM
So Wifi is illegal in Washington?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 06:18:28 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzlDsUyWkAAExnt?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 17, 2019, 06:23:10 PM
...that's when we can stop wearing these dumbass hats!

No clue on that reference.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 07:13:32 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/16/entertainment/jussie-smollett-attack/index.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 17, 2019, 07:18:00 PM
He hired two black dudes to call him nigger?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 17, 2019, 07:35:37 PM
https://twitter.com/sean_spicier/status/1096414952322228224

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 07:50:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 17, 2019, 07:18:00 PM
He hired two black dudes to call him nigger?  :huh:

Plus rough him up a bit, throw bleach on him and put a mini-noose around his neck so he could claim to be a hate crime victim. In some ways this was bigger than Tawana Brawley.

The original story was that two Trump supporters just happened to be in his part of Chicago at 2am during the polar vortex. They saw him and recognized him as being on a show Trump supporters never watch. They proceed to beat him, pour bleach on him, put a small noose around his neck, yell 'this is MAGA country', then run away. So many holes in the story, but many media outlets, activists, Democrat presidential hopefuls fall for the story, because the narrative is just too useful to them.  One would think the outrage mob would have learned from the Cov Cath thing not to jump the gun. Wonder how many more hate hoaxes it will take.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 17, 2019, 07:59:55 PM
I'd never heard of the dude before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 17, 2019, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 07:50:47 PM
One would think the outrage mob would have learned from the Cov Cath thing not to jump the gun. Wonder how many more hate hoaxes it will take.

An infinite amount because they are shouting into an echo chamber with people who are not going to fact check anything or remember what happened a few weeks ago.

Anyway I have not heard of this person or this incident nor do I have any idea what Cov Cath refers to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 17, 2019, 09:05:38 PM
Did you pick this story up on some Stormfronty site Speesh?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 17, 2019, 09:24:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 17, 2019, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 07:50:47 PM
One would think the outrage mob would have learned from the Cov Cath thing not to jump the gun. Wonder how many more hate hoaxes it will take.

An infinite amount because they are shouting into an echo chamber with people who are not going to fact check anything or remember what happened a few weeks ago.

Anyway I have not heard of this person or this incident nor do I have any idea what Cov Cath refers to.

Cov Cath is the Native American/Black Isreali/high school student incident.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 09:41:41 PM
Quote from: dps on February 17, 2019, 07:59:55 PM
I'd never heard of the dude before.

I didn't know of him either. I guess the hoax was a partial success.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 09:42:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 17, 2019, 09:05:38 PM
Did you pick this story up on some Stormfronty site Speesh?

:huh:  Uh, no. Twitter. But thanks for thinking so highly of me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 17, 2019, 09:54:30 PM
The moment an inconsequential story for Fox News became the most important story in America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 17, 2019, 09:58:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 17, 2019, 09:05:38 PM
Did you pick this story up on some Stormfronty site Speesh?

It was a big deal where you'd expect it to be (the gawker verse), but I dont think it was a big thing in the main stream   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 17, 2019, 10:06:41 PM
What is the gawkerverse?  I've heard of gawker but am not familiar.  Is it a place where people throw memes at each other?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 17, 2019, 10:10:05 PM
I think the place I read about it was an article on CNN.com.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 17, 2019, 10:12:07 PM
Websites that are owned by the same company. Jezebel, The root, io9, a bunch of other ones I can't remember. It's a weird combination of demographic specific news  sites, commentating community, and self enduced rage echo chamber.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 17, 2019, 10:14:45 PM
Quote from: dps on February 17, 2019, 09:24:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 17, 2019, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 07:50:47 PM
One would think the outrage mob would have learned from the Cov Cath thing not to jump the gun. Wonder how many more hate hoaxes it will take.

An infinite amount because they are shouting into an echo chamber with people who are not going to fact check anything or remember what happened a few weeks ago.

Anyway I have not heard of this person or this incident nor do I have any idea what Cov Cath refers to.

Cov Cath is the Native American/Black Isreali/high school student incident.

Ah yeah. No I am pretty sure that crowd stuck with their initial gut reaction on that one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 17, 2019, 10:16:08 PM
Quote from: HVC on February 17, 2019, 10:12:07 PM
Websites that are owned by the same company. Jezebel, The root, io9, a bunch of other ones I can't remember. It's a weird combination of demographic specific news  sites, commentating community, and self enduced rage echo chamber.

Yeah that is Jonestown wing of the party. They need a steady supply of Koolaid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 17, 2019, 10:30:46 PM
I kind of like reading jezebel in a weird wtf am I reading sort of way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 17, 2019, 10:33:37 PM
Someone has mentioned Jezebel.  Isn't it like a man-hater hangout?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 17, 2019, 10:51:03 PM
More or less, yeah. They also hate certain women, but it changes randomly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 18, 2019, 04:32:01 AM
The story was on mainstream sites and some celebs were putting out social media support. Then I think Friday the suspects were released based on new evidence and finally revealed it was likely all a self-financed hoax.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 18, 2019, 04:34:56 AM
Oh and Trump when asked had also initially referred to the attack as horrible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 18, 2019, 07:22:52 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 17, 2019, 10:06:41 PM
What is the gawkerverse?  I've heard of gawker but am not familiar.  Is it a place where people throw memes at each other?

New York lefty.

It doesn't exist anymore. Peter Thiel killed it.

Nowadays it's the Gizmodo Media Group, it's owned by Univision borned out of Gawker brankruptcy.

I read it everyday. It's a better news source than anything else American.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on February 18, 2019, 08:01:21 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 07:50:47 PM
So many holes in the story, but many media outlets, activists, Democrat presidential hopefuls fall for the story, because the narrative is just too useful to them.  One would think the outrage mob would have learned from the Cov Cath thing not to jump the gun. Wonder how many more hate hoaxes it will take.

I think more mainstream sites learned something from Covington Catholic.  The celebrity journalists well respected media personalities at CNN, at least, didn't send out a number of tweets expressing their outrage this time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on February 18, 2019, 08:10:16 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 17, 2019, 09:41:41 PM
Quote from: dps on February 17, 2019, 07:59:55 PM
I'd never heard of the dude before.

I didn't know of him either. I guess the hoax was a partial success.

You can't buy publicity like that.   :)

I wonder if he really thought he wouldn't be caught.  It seems obvious to me that his accomplices would rat him out rather than face jail time; but if he didn't think he'd get away with it what was he trying to accomplish? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 18, 2019, 08:14:12 AM
Presumably he thought they wouldn't get caught and it would raise his profile.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 18, 2019, 09:08:09 AM
It was weird all around. Who walks around Chicago at 2 am with bleach and a noose, let alone during a -20 polar vortex. This is what happens when you let actors write scripts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 18, 2019, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 18, 2019, 08:14:12 AM
Presumably he thought they wouldn't get caught and it would raise his profile.

Yeah, given that he told the police that the alleged attackers were white and the 2 guys the police caught were black, I'm sure he never expected them to get caught.  Assuming that the latest reports are true and it was staged.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 18, 2019, 11:30:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 18, 2019, 04:34:56 AM
Oh and Trump when asked had also initially referred to the attack as horrible.

It was pretty horrible, whether true or a hoax.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 18, 2019, 12:18:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2019, 11:30:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 18, 2019, 04:34:56 AM
Oh and Trump when asked had also initially referred to the attack as horrible.

It was pretty horrible, whether true or a hoax.

Disagree. A violent attack is much more horrible than a fictional one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 18, 2019, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2019, 11:30:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 18, 2019, 04:34:56 AM
Oh and Trump when asked had also initially referred to the attack as horrible.

It was pretty horrible, whether true or a hoax.

Agreed
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 18, 2019, 12:58:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 18, 2019, 12:18:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2019, 11:30:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 18, 2019, 04:34:56 AM
Oh and Trump when asked had also initially referred to the attack as horrible.

It was pretty horrible, whether true or a hoax.

Disagree. A violent attack is much more horrible than a fictional one.

I didn't say they were both equally horrible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 18, 2019, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2019, 12:58:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 18, 2019, 12:18:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 18, 2019, 11:30:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 18, 2019, 04:34:56 AM
Oh and Trump when asked had also initially referred to the attack as horrible.

It was pretty horrible, whether true or a hoax.

Disagree. A violent attack is much more horrible than a fictional one.

I didn't say they were both equally horrible.

We know, but the SJW's  are well, who they are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 18, 2019, 09:22:32 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dzne8lJXQAM6nOe.jpg)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 18, 2019, 09:24:30 PM
These days it seems to be mostly chicks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 18, 2019, 09:45:16 PM
Because so much of it is under the umbrella of "caring". And back then, women were presumed to be irrational anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 19, 2019, 12:13:26 AM
Anti Vaxers are the lefts climate change deniers. A group of people who beleive scientists are there trying to trick you for money or other nefarious reasons. It's such a odd phenomena.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on February 19, 2019, 02:38:29 AM
Quote from: HVC on February 19, 2019, 12:13:26 AM
Anti Vaxers are the lefts climate change deniers. A group of people who beleive scientists are there trying to trick you for money or other nefarious reasons. It's such a odd phenomena.
It is hardly a unique viewpoint to the Left.  I see large numbers of right wing anti-government types and religious fundamentalists of all strains virulently oppose vaccinating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 19, 2019, 06:12:33 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 19, 2019, 02:38:29 AM
Quote from: HVC on February 19, 2019, 12:13:26 AM
Anti Vaxers are the lefts climate change deniers. A group of people who beleive scientists are there trying to trick you for money or other nefarious reasons. It’s such a odd phenomena.
It is hardly a unique viewpoint to the Left.  I see large numbers of right wing anti-government types and religious fundamentalists of all strains virulently oppose vaccinating.

The religious fundamental who oppose vaccination tend to be of the type who reject many other forms of modern medical care on philosophical grounds--they don't necessarily claim that vaccination doesn't work or causes other health problems.  And the right-wing types who oppose vaccination generally don't oppose vaccination per se or deny it's efficiency, they just oppose it being mandated by the government.  Neither group seems to be much in the "vaccination causes autism" camp--those types are either left-wingers or soccer moms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 19, 2019, 07:27:28 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 18, 2019, 09:45:16 PM
Because so much of it is under the umbrella of "caring". And back then, women were presumed to be irrational anyway.
presumed?

*whistles and backs off slowly* :shutup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 19, 2019, 09:12:19 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 19, 2019, 02:38:29 AM
Quote from: HVC on February 19, 2019, 12:13:26 AM
Anti Vaxers are the lefts climate change deniers. A group of people who beleive scientists are there trying to trick you for money or other nefarious reasons. It's such a odd phenomena.
It is hardly a unique viewpoint to the Left.  I see large numbers of right wing anti-government types and religious fundamentalists of all strains virulently oppose vaccinating.

Yup. Faddish irrationalism transcends the left-right divide.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 19, 2019, 09:40:34 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 19, 2019, 09:12:19 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 19, 2019, 02:38:29 AM
Quote from: HVC on February 19, 2019, 12:13:26 AM
Anti Vaxers are the lefts climate change deniers. A group of people who beleive scientists are there trying to trick you for money or other nefarious reasons. It's such a odd phenomena.
It is hardly a unique viewpoint to the Left.  I see large numbers of right wing anti-government types and religious fundamentalists of all strains virulently oppose vaccinating.

Yup. Faddish irrationalism transcends the left-right divide.

Indeed it does!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: HVC on February 19, 2019, 12:13:26 AM
Anti Vaxers are the lefts climate change deniers. A group of people who beleive scientists are there trying to trick you for money or other nefarious reasons. It's such a odd phenomena.

Sadly, not the only ones on the left.

Quote from: dps on February 19, 2019, 06:12:33 AM
The religious fundamental who oppose vaccination tend to be of the type who reject many other forms of modern medical care on philosophical grounds--they don't necessarily claim that vaccination doesn't work or causes other health problems.  And the right-wing types who oppose vaccination generally don't oppose vaccination per se or deny it's efficiency, they just oppose it being mandated by the government.  Neither group seems to be much in the "vaccination causes autism" camp--those types are either left-wingers or soccer moms.

Well I wish you were correct there but you are completely wrong. Plenty of anti-Vaccine nutters on the right. Hell Trump even threw them a bone once during his political campaign.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 10:41:42 AM
It wasn't just once for Trump. I think he was/is legitimately anti-vax because of his son.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 10:41:42 AM
It wasn't just once for Trump. I think he was/is legitimately anti-vax because of his son.

Gotcha, I often give Trump too much credit and assume cynicism when idiocy is the correct answer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: fromtia on February 19, 2019, 11:45:33 AM
Anti Vaxx lunacy is a cross party platform, as everyone else has already pointed out. Trump has certainly flirted with it, I think he was even considering offering an anti vaxxer a position in his administration at one point.

Is Jill Stein an anti-vaxxer? I think so? It may just be a bit of flirting, but really completely contemptible anyway.

It is fascinating to me how conspiracy theories have mutated in my life time from sort of counter-cultural anti-government maybe slightly libertarian to generally hard right wing Alex Jones. Not universally, but generally, if someone tells me about pizza-gate or fake moon landings they often seem to embrace a lot of right wing positions on things.

Anti-Vaxx is all over the place though. All over the stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 12:02:02 PM
Stein flirted with anti-vaxxing, yes. I would say that, in some ways, that's even worse than actually espousing the anti-vaxx line. An actual anti-vaxxer would just be ignored by a huge segment of the population, but someone who's "just asking questions" or "being skeptical" about vaccinations is going to chip away at support.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 19, 2019, 01:09:41 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52911753_2097303866973959_9050642767335653376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=712d277fd489c710c3b3e766ddbf6ddc&oe=5D222C78)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 19, 2019, 01:34:28 PM
Job growth was greater than 5 million in the first two years of Obama's last term.  For the full term it was over 10 million.

Willing to bet that Trump doesn't get there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 01:36:39 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 19, 2019, 01:34:28 PM
Job growth was greater than 5 million in the first two years of Obama's last term.  For the full term it was over 10 million.

Willing to bet that Trump doesn't get there.


See Spicey? Green jobs!

Though, to be fair, Obama was coming in during a complete and total economic disaster so lots of room to grow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 19, 2019, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 01:36:39 PM

Though, to be fair, Obama was coming in during a complete and total economic disaster so lots of room to grow.
And Trump will be leaving during a complete and total economic disaster. Really not a fair comparison.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 02:09:47 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 19, 2019, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 01:36:39 PM

Though, to be fair, Obama was coming in during a complete and total economic disaster so lots of room to grow.
And Trump will be leaving during a complete and total economic disaster. Really not a fair comparison.

Hopefully not...but yeah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 02:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 19, 2019, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 01:36:39 PM

Though, to be fair, Obama was coming in during a complete and total economic disaster so lots of room to grow.
And Trump will be leaving during a complete and total economic disaster. Really not a fair comparison.

That seems unlikely. Any wreck that comes is unlikely to be 2007-level bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 19, 2019, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 02:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 19, 2019, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 01:36:39 PM

Though, to be fair, Obama was coming in during a complete and total economic disaster so lots of room to grow.
And Trump will be leaving during a complete and total economic disaster. Really not a fair comparison.

That seems unlikely. Any wreck that comes is unlikely to be 2007-level bad.

Quoted for posterity  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 19, 2019, 05:53:51 PM
Huh, guess I was wrong. probably biased by the fact that when I head about outbreaks it seems like its from super liberal areas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 19, 2019, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 02:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 19, 2019, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 01:36:39 PM

Though, to be fair, Obama was coming in during a complete and total economic disaster so lots of room to grow.
And Trump will be leaving during a complete and total economic disaster. Really not a fair comparison.

That seems unlikely. Any wreck that comes is unlikely to be 2007-level bad.


Quoted for posterity  :P

What metrics are we using? Stock market? Unemployment? Nuclear obliteration of several American cities? I claim a tie in the event of that last one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 19, 2019, 08:20:06 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 02:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 19, 2019, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 01:36:39 PM

Though, to be fair, Obama was coming in during a complete and total economic disaster so lots of room to grow.
And Trump will be leaving during a complete and total economic disaster. Really not a fair comparison.

That seems unlikely. Any wreck that comes is unlikely to be 2007-level bad.

Well, 2007 wasn't that bad--the wreck didn't really happen until towards the end of 2008.  I think there's a good chance a mess as big as 2008 is coming, but my guess is that it doesn't hit until after the 2020 elections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on February 19, 2019, 08:28:03 PM
Quote from: dps on February 19, 2019, 08:20:06 PM

Well, 2007 wasn't that bad--the wreck didn't really happen until towards the end of 2008.  I think there's a good chance a mess as big as 2008 is coming, but my guess is that it doesn't hit until after the 2020 elections.

The exact timing most likely depends on how much more Trump is willing to ratchet up the tariffs, how much more debt Congress is willing to rack up to compensate and how well the rest of the world's economy is doing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: dps on February 19, 2019, 08:20:06 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 19, 2019, 02:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 19, 2019, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2019, 01:36:39 PM

Though, to be fair, Obama was coming in during a complete and total economic disaster so lots of room to grow.
And Trump will be leaving during a complete and total economic disaster. Really not a fair comparison.

That seems unlikely. Any wreck that comes is unlikely to be 2007-level bad.

Well, 2007 wasn't that bad--the wreck didn't really happen until towards the end of 2008.

Thanks, Captain Pedantic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 20, 2019, 06:28:51 PM
Powell should ratchet up interest rates to 10% at the next FOMC meeting and start a recession just for the Trump lols
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 20, 2019, 07:55:29 PM
Aaaaaand Jussie is now a suspect. The #justiceforjussie hash tag has a whole new meaning now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 20, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 20, 2019, 06:28:51 PM
Powell should ratchet up interest rates to 10% at the next FOMC meeting and start a recession just for the Trump lols

Some here would like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 20, 2019, 08:06:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 20, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 20, 2019, 06:28:51 PM
Powell should ratchet up interest rates to 10% at the next FOMC meeting and start a recession just for the Trump lols

Some here would like that.

I hope not as doing stupid shit for the lolz is what got us in this mess to begin with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2019, 08:10:22 PM
I would be willing to pay some amount of money, and hence willing to forego some amount of economic growth, for Trump to be gone.  I would be willing to pay more if Trump were gone and his supporters realized the error of their ways.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 20, 2019, 08:38:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 20, 2019, 07:55:29 PM
Aaaaaand Jussie is now a suspect. The #justiceforjussie hash tag has a whole new meaning now.


I can see that this is very important to you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 20, 2019, 09:11:34 PM
It's a funny story.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 20, 2019, 09:35:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2019, 08:10:22 PM
I would be willing to pay some amount of money, and hence willing to forego some amount of economic growth, for Trump to be gone.  I would be willing to pay more if Trump were gone and his supporters realized the error of their ways.

Ditto. Double my taxes and I'd be happy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on February 20, 2019, 09:44:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2019, 08:38:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 20, 2019, 07:55:29 PM
Aaaaaand Jussie is now a suspect. The #justiceforjussie hash tag has a whole new meaning now.


I can see that this is very important to you.

To be fair it's an interesting story.

Not at all important in the grand scheme of things, but still interesting.

I look forward to the Netflix documentary about it in 10 years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 21, 2019, 01:19:05 AM
derspiess desperately wants to talk about this fait divers  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 21, 2019, 01:29:43 AM
Methinks thou doth protest to much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 21, 2019, 02:35:58 AM
Eh, dudes a POS. He should be kicked off his show and his career should be over for gay bashing.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 21, 2019, 04:25:14 AM
Uhm, you are aware the he's gay, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 21, 2019, 08:30:49 AM
Quote from: dps on February 21, 2019, 04:25:14 AM
Uhm, you are aware the he's gay, right?

He hired two thugs to lynch a gay guy!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 09:33:31 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 21, 2019, 01:19:05 AM
derspiess desperately wants to talk about this fait divers  :lol:

I had to look that one up :D

I will admit to having been borderline-obsessed with this story. When it broke, it was so full of holes and the details were so far-fetched-- yet you had many people, particularly celebrities and politicians, seize upon it for political gain.  AOC lashed out at any news outlet that dared call it an alleged attack.  Kamala Harris & Cory Booker called it a lynching and used the incident to promote an anti-lynching bill.  Ellen Page went on Colbert's show and blamed Pence (!) for the attack, to roaring applause.  And so on and so on. 

People who dared question any of the details were branded homophobes, racists, or worse yet-- Trump Supporters.  Now unfortunately some of that group are now themselves overplaying their hand and spiking the football. 

And Smollett himself has sort of fascinated me throughout the whole thing.  He goes on tour right after the incident, eats up all this new attention, and proclaims himself Gay Tupac.  When things begin to unravel with the story, he goes on Good Morning America for a softball interview and doubles down on the lie.  He may not be particularly smart, but he's a good enough actor to fool people.

Anyway, Smollett has been arrested.  I'm sure there's more drama to unfold but my interest is now fading a little.  So I'm less desperate to discuss this than I was a few days ago :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 21, 2019, 10:10:26 AM
Fake victimization for publicity aside what really makes Smollett a piece of shit is that when the cops said they found suspects he said he would testify against them. This was before he found out the suspects where the two brothers he paid off. Dude was going to testify against two innocent people to keep the charade going.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 21, 2019, 10:17:22 AM
All the shit Trump and his supporters do and say have been made okay by this one crazy black guy's fake crime. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 21, 2019, 10:24:05 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 21, 2019, 10:17:22 AM
All the shit Trump and his supporters do and say have been made okay by this one crazy black guy's fake crime. :)

I don't think anyone is saying that here. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 21, 2019, 10:26:08 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 21, 2019, 10:17:22 AM
All the shit Trump and his supporters do and say have been made okay by this one crazy black guy's fake crime. :)

Trump or no trump, it's just odd story. he's an actor on a popular tv show. it'd be like one of the kids from stranger things faked his own kidnapping.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2019, 11:39:52 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 09:33:31 AM
Ellen Page went on Colbert's show and blamed Pence (!) for the attack, to roaring applause.

Well obviously that's wrong.  Trump is to blame, not Pence.  Trump said he'd fix the mental illness problem in America and he didn't. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 21, 2019, 12:49:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 09:33:31 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 21, 2019, 01:19:05 AM
derspiess desperately wants to talk about this fait divers  :lol:

I had to look that one up :D

I will admit to having been borderline-obsessed with this story. When it broke, it was so full of holes and the details were so far-fetched-- yet you had many people, particularly celebrities and politicians, seize upon it for political gain.  AOC lashed out at any news outlet that dared call it an alleged attack.  Kamala Harris & Cory Booker called it a lynching and used the incident to promote an anti-lynching bill.  Ellen Page went on Colbert's show and blamed Pence (!) for the attack, to roaring applause.  And so on and so on. 

People who dared question any of the details were branded homophobes, racists, or worse yet-- Trump Supporters.  Now unfortunately some of that group are now themselves overplaying their hand and spiking the football. 

And Smollett himself has sort of fascinated me throughout the whole thing.  He goes on tour right after the incident, eats up all this new attention, and proclaims himself Gay Tupac.  When things begin to unravel with the story, he goes on Good Morning America for a softball interview and doubles down on the lie.  He may not be particularly smart, but he's a good enough actor to fool people.

Anyway, Smollett has been arrested.  I'm sure there's more drama to unfold but my interest is now fading a little.  So I'm less desperate to discuss this than I was a few days ago :)

Plenty of politicos on the right also called the attack terrible when it first hit the news, including Trump.

Don't let that get in the way of your schadenfreude though. I'll let you enjoy that one, since I agree that my tribe went a little bit psycho on this story.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 01:00:49 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 21, 2019, 12:49:15 PM
Plenty of politicos on the right also called the attack terrible when it first hit the news, including Trump.

Sure.  My own first thought upon hearing the first report was how terrible it was.  There's a difference between expressing this reaction and using as political fodder to go after your enemies.

QuoteDon't let that get in the way of your schadenfreude though. I'll let you enjoy that one, since I agree that my tribe went a little bit psycho on this story.  :sleep:

:hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 21, 2019, 11:44:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 01:00:49 PM
There's a difference between expressing this reaction and using as political fodder to go after your enemies.

You mean doing just like Fox News, Breitbart, New Republic and other "conservative" media are doing and attacking Democrats? :)

It's so refreshing that there was other medias with good, strong values of honesty and integrity out there, unlike the Failing New York Times. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 22, 2019, 04:20:41 AM
Quote from: dps on February 21, 2019, 04:25:14 AM
Uhm, you are aware the he's gay, right?
Yip
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 22, 2019, 09:03:48 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 21, 2019, 11:44:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 01:00:49 PM
There's a difference between expressing this reaction and using as political fodder to go after your enemies.

You mean doing just like Fox News, Breitbart, New Republic and other "conservative" media are doing and attacking Democrats? :)

It's so refreshing that there was other medias with good, strong values of honesty and integrity out there, unlike the Failing New York Times. ;)

Any time Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, Breitbart, etc. does something like this they deserve to be called out. But we're losing focus here-- unless you're saying the overreactions in Jussie's favor were somehow justified.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 22, 2019, 09:07:17 AM
The point is that the propaganda machine of both partisan groups will eagerly scoop up whatever fits their narrative and move on and will never be held accountable when they are wrong. I think we all know the frustration of seeing some article about some outrageous thing that fits our preconceived notions only to be embarrassed when it turns out the whole thing was propaganda. You must always have a healthy and reasonable bit of skepticism at any news story, even (especially?) if it comes from your political camp.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on February 22, 2019, 09:11:49 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 22, 2019, 10:08:39 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 22, 2019, 09:03:48 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 21, 2019, 11:44:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 01:00:49 PM
There's a difference between expressing this reaction and using as political fodder to go after your enemies.

You mean doing just like Fox News, Breitbart, New Republic and other "conservative" media are doing and attacking Democrats? :)

It's so refreshing that there was other medias with good, strong values of honesty and integrity out there, unlike the Failing New York Times. ;)

Any time Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, Breitbart, etc. does something like this they deserve to be called out. But we're losing focus here-- unless you're saying the overreactions in Jussie's favor were somehow justified.
I just went and looked at Breitbart before posting this.  They were hysterical about the Smolett thing.  So was Fox News all week long.

I haven't seen any "overreaction" in Jussie's favour outside of Twitter.  I haven't read any editorial of column about it in the NYT, the New Yorker, the Atlantic, Politico or the Washington Post.  The first time I heard about this moron was through local papers once the Chicago police were investigating him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 22, 2019, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 22, 2019, 10:08:39 AM
I just went and looked at Breitbart before posting this.  They were hysterical about the Smolett thing.  So was Fox News all week long.

I haven't seen any "overreaction" in Jussie's favour outside of Twitter.  I haven't read any editorial of column about it in the NYT, the New Yorker, the Atlantic, Politico or the Washington Post.  The first time I heard about this moron was through local papers once the Chicago police were investigating him.

Those publications are not really the equivalent of Breitbart and Fox News, the left equivalent of them would be the Gawkerverse previously mentioned. The right wing equivalent to the NYT has historically been the WSJ, I don't know if that is still true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 22, 2019, 10:51:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2019, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 22, 2019, 10:08:39 AM
I just went and looked at Breitbart before posting this.  They were hysterical about the Smolett thing.  So was Fox News all week long.

I haven't seen any "overreaction" in Jussie's favour outside of Twitter.  I haven't read any editorial of column about it in the NYT, the New Yorker, the Atlantic, Politico or the Washington Post.  The first time I heard about this moron was through local papers once the Chicago police were investigating him.

Those publications are not really the equivalent of Breitbart and Fox News, the left equivalent of them would be the Gawkerverse previously mentioned. The right wing equivalent to the NYT has historically been the WSJ, I don't know if that is still true.

That on its own tells you a lot about the two sides though.


Like how in Hungary recently, a leader of the freshly created "foundation" media conglomerate (hosting all pro-government media companies) was swiftly fired. He said in an interview that he himself reads the left-leaning papers for information and leisure because the Right has just no talent. His point of course was that he'd now work on chaning that, but alas he sank his own career with a single sentence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 22, 2019, 01:06:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2019, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 22, 2019, 10:08:39 AM
I just went and looked at Breitbart before posting this.  They were hysterical about the Smolett thing.  So was Fox News all week long.

I haven't seen any "overreaction" in Jussie's favour outside of Twitter.  I haven't read any editorial of column about it in the NYT, the New Yorker, the Atlantic, Politico or the Washington Post.  The first time I heard about this moron was through local papers once the Chicago police were investigating him.

Those publications are not really the equivalent of Breitbart and Fox News, the left equivalent of them would be the Gawkerverse previously mentioned. The right wing equivalent to the NYT has historically been the WSJ, I don't know if that is still true.
still better than comparing with Twitter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 04, 2019, 05:12:22 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16681620_10210055770923251_926972937631776983_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cfb3eed4b0d6e2990029c086109e73b4&oe=5D1D793E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on March 04, 2019, 05:38:10 AM
Oh, to be young again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 04, 2019, 06:05:39 AM
At least she's not getting an abortion.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 04, 2019, 11:57:03 AM
I can't wait for the Republicans to start calling people hippies again.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 04, 2019, 12:01:32 PM
I never stopped.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 05, 2019, 12:26:48 PM
We are either out of touch rich who have no compassion for the poor rural masses who just want a break from the evil greedy Liberal cities to lazy bums who are jealous of right wing success. Remarkable really.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 07, 2019, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 05, 2019, 12:26:48 PM
We are either out of touch rich who have no compassion for the poor rural masses who just want a break from the evil greedy Liberal cities to lazy bums who are jealous of right wing success. Remarkable really.

Which are you?  Probably out of tough rich--I don't get the impression you're lazy.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 07, 2019, 05:56:29 PM
Definitely. That is why he's afraid of Bernie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on March 07, 2019, 06:20:10 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1BVH9dWwAEN8F4.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 07, 2019, 06:27:28 PM
Donald was so overcome with grief he peed his pants.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on March 07, 2019, 06:31:17 PM
Funny that there's no Russia flag too.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on March 07, 2019, 06:35:05 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 07, 2019, 06:27:28 PM
Donald was so overcome with grief he peed his pants.  :(

Just found the original and I realize somebody shopped that. Funny because the guy sharing it was non-ironic about it.  :lol:

Full gallery: https://kjzz.com/news/local/gallery/latest-mcnaughton-painting-titled-national-emergency-depicts-immigration-partisanship#photo-1
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 07, 2019, 06:46:13 PM
Anyone know which flag Lyin' Hillary is holding?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 07, 2019, 06:53:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 07, 2019, 06:46:13 PM
Anyone know which flag Lyin' Hillary is holding?
Iran.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 07, 2019, 07:12:08 PM
Also, amazing that Maxine Waters is holding the California flag. Because, of course, they're foreign invaders.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 07, 2019, 07:28:02 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 07, 2019, 06:53:21 PM
Iran.

Obrigado
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 07, 2019, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 07, 2019, 05:56:29 PM
Definitely. That is why he's afraid of Bernie.

I am not afraid of him at all. I just think his policies are bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 09, 2019, 05:25:48 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53333125_10216150627152493_8056235633607180288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b670f7ff7d35e58b954fde9ebb4ea1a5&oe=5D1D0BA7)

I don't think I would call Patrick Moore "Greenpeace" these days: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(environmentalist)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 09, 2019, 05:34:39 AM
Where's that famous Canadian courtesy?  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on March 09, 2019, 07:41:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 09, 2019, 05:25:48 AM

I don't think I would call Patrick Moore "Greenpeace" these days: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(environmentalist)

Quotein September 2014, Moore was asked about the safety of the herbicide glyphosate. Moore told Paul Moreira that one "could drink a whole quart of it" without any harm. When Moore was challenged to drink a glass of the weedkiller, he refused, saying "I'm not an idiot" and "I'm not stupid" before ending the interview
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 09, 2019, 08:21:48 AM
He also doesn't believe in man-made climate change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 09, 2019, 04:04:37 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 09, 2019, 05:25:48 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53333125_10216150627152493_8056235633607180288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b670f7ff7d35e58b954fde9ebb4ea1a5&oe=5D1D0BA7)

I don't think I would call Patrick Moore "Greenpeace" these days: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(environmentalist)

Yes, she's an idiot. If Pelosi doesn't get her folks under control, it will be an easy election day in 2020 for Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 09, 2019, 04:37:23 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 09, 2019, 04:04:37 PM
Yes, she's an idiot. If Pelosi doesn't get her folks under control, it will be an easy election day in 2020 for Trump.

Look she is a loose cannon. She was elected to be a radical. She is not going to listen to Pelosi.

But last I checked people love radical nutcases so I am not sure why you are concluding this means a slam dunk for Trump. Hell the more idiotic and stupid she is the more popular she will become.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 09, 2019, 04:38:41 PM
I also am a little skeptical changing our source of energy means we have to cut down every tree. It seems technology has never changed before in all of human history to listen to these people talk. But it sort of seems like we have some kind of strawman where fossil fuels are outlawed tomorrow or some kind of insane bullshit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on March 09, 2019, 05:03:01 PM
She may be something of a naive firebrand, or even an idiot. But Trump has proved that complete fuckwits can be elected president, so why not her? If not for president, then as a radical campaigner getting the left wing under control.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 09, 2019, 05:06:34 PM
Quote from: Threviel on March 09, 2019, 05:03:01 PM
She may be something of a naive firebrand, or even an idiot. But Trump has proved that complete fuckwits can be elected president, so why not her? If not for president, then as a radical campaigner getting the left wing under control.

The left wing doesn't do under control.  Either they get their way or they act all butthurt and call centrists puppets of Wall Street.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 09, 2019, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: Threviel on March 09, 2019, 05:03:01 PM
She may be something of a naive firebrand, or even an idiot. But Trump has proved that complete fuckwits can be elected president, so why not her? If not for president, then as a radical campaigner getting the left wing under control.

She is very popular among the masses on twitter because, much like our current President, her ideas are easy to articulate on that format. I hate twitter so much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 09, 2019, 05:33:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 09, 2019, 08:21:48 AM
He also doesn't believe in man-made climate change.

Yeah he is the guy the right wing trots out all the time and he spews weird things about how scientists are not taking the sun into account for climate change. Which is a very odd thing to say since obviously they do. He clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

He seems to think if he can just destroy all other new energy technologies in the world we will eventually all use nukes. Which is a highly dubious proposition. I mean would love more nukes but that will never happen. After Fukushima it is over. He is jousting at windmills (literally....)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 09, 2019, 08:59:05 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 09, 2019, 05:06:34 PM
Quote from: Threviel on March 09, 2019, 05:03:01 PM
She may be something of a naive firebrand, or even an idiot. But Trump has proved that complete fuckwits can be elected president, so why not her? If not for president, then as a radical campaigner getting the left wing under control.

The left wing doesn't do under control.  Either they get their way or they act all butthurt and call centrists puppets of Wall Street.

Yup
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 09, 2019, 09:25:30 PM
It's funny how her photos always have her looking like a shrill wack-a-doodle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 09, 2019, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 09, 2019, 09:25:30 PM
It's funny how her photos always have her looking like a shrill wack-a-doodle.

That is how right wing propaganda typically works. They do the same thing with Pelosi and Hillary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 09, 2019, 09:29:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 09, 2019, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 09, 2019, 09:25:30 PM
It's funny how her photos always have her looking like a shrill wack-a-doodle.

That is how right wing propaganda typically works. They do the same thing with Pelosi and Hillary.

Yup
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on March 09, 2019, 10:13:01 PM
I find her quite hot  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 09, 2019, 10:14:32 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 09, 2019, 10:13:01 PM
I find her quite hot  :blush:

Not disputing that. I agree.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 09, 2019, 10:26:35 PM
Hot but in a you better not date her if you own pets kind of way
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on March 10, 2019, 02:13:53 AM
No, just hot. Women in powerful positions really freaks some of you guys out doesn't it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2019, 03:49:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 09, 2019, 09:26:20 PM
That is how right wing propaganda typically works. They do the same thing with Pelosi and Hillary.

Everyone does it.  It's not a right/left thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on March 10, 2019, 05:06:49 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 10, 2019, 02:13:53 AM
No, just hot. Women in powerful positions really freaks some of you guys out doesn't it.
Honestly, derspeiss aside I think it's more that she's challenging the established order. They treat Sanders much the same way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 10, 2019, 06:46:39 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 10, 2019, 02:13:53 AM
No, just hot. Women in powerful positions really freaks some of you guys out doesn't it.

No she's hot, but the photos used make her look crazy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on March 10, 2019, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 10, 2019, 06:46:39 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 10, 2019, 02:13:53 AM
No, just hot. Women in powerful positions really freaks some of you guys out doesn't it.

No she's hot, but the photos used make her look crazy

Ah ok. Didn't see the previous posts my bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2019, 12:36:26 PM
She's attractive, in spite of the weird pyramid shaped nose.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 10, 2019, 01:34:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2019, 03:49:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 09, 2019, 09:26:20 PM
That is how right wing propaganda typically works. They do the same thing with Pelosi and Hillary.

Everyone does it.  It's not a right/left thing.

Yes, plenty of websites use the least flattering pictures of Trump possible.

Though I would argue there is a qualitative difference when it is being done to those in power, vs to those who are not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 10, 2019, 06:30:53 PM
Where are flattering pics of him?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 11, 2019, 10:20:29 AM
Quote from: Maximus on March 10, 2019, 05:06:49 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 10, 2019, 02:13:53 AM
No, just hot. Women in powerful positions really freaks some of you guys out doesn't it.
Honestly, derspeiss aside I think it's more that she's challenging the established order. They treat Sanders much the same way.

I think she is great.   It is very impressive that in her first few weeks in office she has moved the climate and taxation debate to the extent that she has become a fixation for the right, a constant reference in the Economist and even effective at shaping the issues being taken up with the democratic presidential hopefuls. She knows how do politics in an age of social media.

Besides, American social policy is horribly broken.  How many Americans can continue to defend a system that spends the most for mediocre at best results continues to be mystifying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 10:21:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 11, 2019, 10:20:29 AM
Besides, American social policy is horribly broken.  How many Americans can continue to defend a system that spends the most for mediocre at best results continues to be mystifying.

Fear mostly. Ideology. An ignorant belief that our system is the best in the world.

Edit: Well actually I think most people do want to reform the system they just have opposite views on what should be done.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 11, 2019, 11:50:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 10:21:27 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 11, 2019, 10:20:29 AM
Besides, American social policy is horribly broken.  How many Americans can continue to defend a system that spends the most for mediocre at best results continues to be mystifying.

Fear mostly. Ideology. An ignorant belief that our system is the best in the world.

Edit: Well actually I think most people do want to reform the system they just have opposite views on what should be done.

The bold part has a lot to do with it, I think.  American politicians, of any stripe, are continually appealing to American exceptionalism.  Americans tell themselves they are the most free, the most democratic, the best of... well everything.  It is hard to think your country needs to improve certain aspects when you are continually bombarded with a message that you live in the best place in the world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 11, 2019, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 10, 2019, 06:30:53 PM
Where are flattering pics of him?
in his office?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 11, 2019, 01:01:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 10, 2019, 06:30:53 PM
Where are flattering pics of him?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/45/The_Visionary_by_Ralph_Wolfe_Cowan.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 11, 2019, 01:17:24 PM
Who is that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 11, 2019, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 11, 2019, 01:17:24 PM
Who is that?

https://wikivividly.com/wiki/The_Visionary
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 11, 2019, 01:29:47 PM
So only paintings?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 11, 2019, 01:35:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 11, 2019, 01:29:47 PM
So only paintings?

I guess he kinda looks normal in this one? I had forgotten he didn't always have his beautiful :P golden hair.

(https://whenskippylovedmallory.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/dandi.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 01:36:57 PM
Those were the days. I miss the days when I could think Donald was a disgusting jerk who embodied so much of the regrettable qualities in my country without that being a partisan political stance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 11, 2019, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 10, 2019, 05:06:49 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 10, 2019, 02:13:53 AM
No, just hot. Women in powerful positions really freaks some of you guys out doesn't it.
Honestly, derspeiss aside I think it's more that she's challenging the established order. They treat Sanders much the same way.

I most definitely do not find Bernie hot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 10:54:44 PM
I don't think being a Freshman Congresswoman is a particularly powerful position.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 11, 2019, 10:59:43 PM
A whole lot more than you or me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 11:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 11, 2019, 10:59:43 PM
A whole lot more than you or me.

True. Anyway the only thing about her that concerns me really is how she is being used as a weapon to terrify voters into voting Republican.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 11, 2019, 11:33:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 11:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 11, 2019, 10:59:43 PM
A whole lot more than you or me.

True. Anyway the only thing about her that concerns me really is how she is being used as a weapon to terrify voters into voting Republican.
Somehow I think another minority and/or woman would come along to fill that role if AOC weren't around.  If people are still capable of being terrified into voting for GOP in 2020, then frankly they were a lost cause to begin with.  They're probably not really terrified, but rather looking for an excuse that they will always find.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 12, 2019, 04:17:07 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2019, 11:33:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 11:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 11, 2019, 10:59:43 PM
A whole lot more than you or me.

True. Anyway the only thing about her that concerns me really is how she is being used as a weapon to terrify voters into voting Republican.
Somehow I think another minority and/or woman would come along to fill that role if AOC weren't around.  If people are still capable of being terrified into voting for GOP in 2020, then frankly they were a lost cause to begin with.  They're probably not really terrified, but rather looking for an excuse that they will always find.

In fact isn't the congresswoman of Somali origin already being set up as the strawcongresswoman to terrify Republican voters? I guess she checks more or less the same boxes as AOC, plus muslim, so that's like a bigot's jackpot or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 12, 2019, 04:31:48 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 12, 2019, 04:17:07 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2019, 11:33:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 11:02:09 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 11, 2019, 10:59:43 PM
A whole lot more than you or me.

True. Anyway the only thing about her that concerns me really is how she is being used as a weapon to terrify voters into voting Republican.
Somehow I think another minority and/or woman would come along to fill that role if AOC weren't around.  If people are still capable of being terrified into voting for GOP in 2020, then frankly they were a lost cause to begin with.  They're probably not really terrified, but rather looking for an excuse that they will always find.

In fact isn't the congresswoman of Somali origin already being set up as the strawcongresswoman to terrify Republican voters? I guess she checks more or less the same boxes as AOC, plus muslim, so that's like a bigot's jackpot or something.

Also she can't being able to resist voicing the backward anti-semitic stuff I suspect he brings from her parents' household and upbringing doesn't help.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 10:11:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 10:54:44 PM
I don't think being a Freshman Congresswoman is a particularly powerful position.

That is the point.  She has accomplished a lot despite her newly elected status.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 12, 2019, 10:14:04 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 10:11:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 10:54:44 PM
I don't think being a Freshman Congresswoman is a particularly powerful position.

That is the point.  She has accomplished a lot despite her newly elected status.

A very subjective opinion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 12, 2019, 10:30:50 AM
And very hard to measure, as her accomplishments are mainly through influence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 12, 2019, 11:45:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 10:54:44 PM
I don't think being a Freshman Congresswoman is a particularly powerful position.

But she really freaks me out!!  :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 12, 2019, 10:14:04 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 10:11:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 11, 2019, 10:54:44 PM
I don't think being a Freshman Congresswoman is a particularly powerful position.

That is the point.  She has accomplished a lot despite her newly elected status.

A very subjective opinion.

Not really.  As just one objective measure, pick up each edition of the Economist since she was elected and you will read something about her.  A person would have to have a serious axe to grind to ignore that kind of impact from someone new to political office.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 12, 2019, 12:47:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Not really.  As just one objective measure, pick up each edition of the Economist since she was elected and you will read something about her.  A person would have to have a serious axe to grind to ignore that kind of impact from someone new to political office.

I mean she is radical and is skillful at using social media so she is great at getting attention. She is making political waves. Now I think that is also because she is the Republicans dream, they are working very hard to promote her as the leader of all Democrats. But she certainly has a certain skill as well.

But I tend to judge accomplishments from what she has done as an elected official.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 12, 2019, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 12, 2019, 12:47:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Not really.  As just one objective measure, pick up each edition of the Economist since she was elected and you will read something about her.  A person would have to have a serious axe to grind to ignore that kind of impact from someone new to political office.

I mean she is radical and is skillful at using social media so she is great at getting attention. She is making political waves. Now I think that is also because she is the Republicans dream, they are working very hard to promote her as the leader of all Democrats. But she certainly has a certain skill as well.

But I tend to judge accomplishments from what she has done as an elected official.

Yeah, getting talked about well the Kardashians do that.

I'm not sure how great  (if you want to give it to her and not Warren /Bernie) it is that the Dems are cleaving to the left in current primary chatter.

Policy wise it seems like the first moves she tried to make Pelosi stomped on. Green New Deal appears to be dead?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 12, 2019, 12:47:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Not really.  As just one objective measure, pick up each edition of the Economist since she was elected and you will read something about her.  A person would have to have a serious axe to grind to ignore that kind of impact from someone new to political office.

I mean she is radical and is skillful at using social media so she is great at getting attention. She is making political waves. Now I think that is also because she is the Republicans dream, they are working very hard to promote her as the leader of all Democrats. But she certainly has a certain skill as well.

But I tend to judge accomplishments from what she has done as an elected official.

She is also getting a lot of support for her ideas from places like the Economist, which grudgingly admits she makes good points about taxation policy and the New York Times which regularly runs editorials pointing out that she has done her homework on this issues and that her ideas are not as radical as people seem to think.  There was a recent piece which argued the radicals are the GOP and that her suggested polices would take America back to more sane taxation policies the US had before it was hijacked by the radical right.

I really don't understand you and others here dismissing her so easily.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 12, 2019, 01:54:58 PM
I agree with Valmy and garbon.  The new Congress so far hasn't accomplished jack, so you can't really credit any individual member for accomplishing anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 01:55:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 12, 2019, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 12, 2019, 12:47:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Not really.  As just one objective measure, pick up each edition of the Economist since she was elected and you will read something about her.  A person would have to have a serious axe to grind to ignore that kind of impact from someone new to political office.

I mean she is radical and is skillful at using social media so she is great at getting attention. She is making political waves. Now I think that is also because she is the Republicans dream, they are working very hard to promote her as the leader of all Democrats. But she certainly has a certain skill as well.

But I tend to judge accomplishments from what she has done as an elected official.

Yeah, getting talked about well the Kardashians do that.

That is an absurd comparison.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 01:56:12 PM
Quote from: dps on March 12, 2019, 01:54:58 PM
I agree with Valmy and garbon.  The new Congress so far hasn't accomplished jack, so you can't really credit any individual member for accomplishing anything.

Yeah, it is totally the fault of AOC that your governmental system is so dysfunctional atm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 12, 2019, 01:58:40 PM
I don't think our government as a whole is dysfunctional (just the President), but AOC is pretty much an irrelevant part of it being either functional or dysfunctional.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 12, 2019, 01:59:58 PM
Quote from: dps on March 12, 2019, 01:58:40 PM
I don't think our government as a whole is dysfunctional (just the President), but AOC is pretty much an irrelevant part of it being either functional or dysfunctional.

It is clear when he starts flailing about that there is no point in continuing the conversation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 12, 2019, 02:02:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 12, 2019, 01:59:58 PM
Quote from: dps on March 12, 2019, 01:58:40 PM
I don't think our government as a whole is dysfunctional (just the President), but AOC is pretty much an irrelevant part of it being either functional or dysfunctional.

It is clear when he starts flailing about that there is no point in continuing the conversation.

CC or Trump?   :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 12, 2019, 02:05:06 PM
If he meant Trump, there would never be a conversation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 02:07:28 PM
It is hard to have a conversation when the common ground is so devoid of commonality.  Have a nice day.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 12, 2019, 02:31:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 02:07:28 PM
It is hard to have a conversation when the common ground is so devoid of commonality.  Have a nice day.

Have you considered avoiding starting off with sarcasm? That might go a long way towards establishing commonality.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 12, 2019, 03:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 12, 2019, 04:31:48 AM
Also she can't being able to resist voicing the backward anti-semitic stuff I suspect he brings from her parents' household and upbringing doesn't help.
Anti-Israel /= Anti-Semitic
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 12, 2019, 03:29:53 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 12, 2019, 03:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 12, 2019, 04:31:48 AM
Also she can't being able to resist voicing the backward anti-semitic stuff I suspect he brings from her parents' household and upbringing doesn't help.
Anti-Israel /= Anti-Semitic

Depends on how you are being anti-Israel. I mean I have a strong feeling of love/loathing for Israel but that is more about them being a nationalistic state than a Jewish one. If you are against them because they are the ethnic and national enemies of Dar al-Islam then I am a bit skeptical of that /= claim.

But I am generally not familiar with this Muslim Congresswoman and what flavor of Muslim she is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 12, 2019, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 12, 2019, 03:29:53 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 12, 2019, 03:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 12, 2019, 04:31:48 AM
Also she can't being able to resist voicing the backward anti-semitic stuff I suspect he brings from her parents' household and upbringing doesn't help.
Anti-Israel /= Anti-Semitic

Depends on how you are being anti-Israel. I mean I have a strong feeling of love/loathing for Israel but that is more about them being a nationalistic state than a Jewish one. If you are against them because they are the ethnic and national enemies of Dar al-Islam then I am a bit skeptical of that /= claim.

But I am generally not familiar with this Muslim Congresswoman and what flavor of Muslim she is.

Looks to have been a tempest in a teapot stirred up by that most dangerous of all political tools, the tweet.  :lol:

The lady in question posted a tweet basically stating that support for Israel was all due to "the Benjamins", which some took as an offensive reference to Jewish money. A common anti-Semitic canard about Jews and money raised hackles, leading to the usual round of outrage and apology.

Problem is that she then doubled down with a statement that implied Jews owe allegiance to a foreign country, which set off another round ...

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 12, 2019, 04:04:59 PM
Well if she doesn't want to appear to be anti-Semitic than that was probably not a good start.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 12, 2019, 04:53:38 PM
She's an idiot but perspective matters.

When people march with Nazi flags in the middle of Virginia that is concerning. When the President of the United States refers to marching Nazis as "very fine people" it is concerning. When the same President passes on an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory about Jewish bankers paying to fake opposition to his judicial appointments that was also concerning.

The guy that shot up the synagogue in Pittsburgh wasn't motivated about Israel's policy in the territories or the lobbying role of AIPAC.  He was one of those "very fine people."

I'm not normally in favor of whataboutism, Ms. Detroit Congresswoman IMO should not be let anywhere near any foreign policy related committee or any leadership position in the party.

But the crushing hypocrisy of the Steve Bannon candidate for President lecturing about anti-Semitism is a bit much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 12, 2019, 05:01:23 PM
Here's another way to think about it.

What if a Democrat in Congress spoke out about the history of Jewish espionage in America, the US Liberty attack etc., and proposed a ban of all Jews entering America? The FoxNews crowd would blow its stack.  Hell everyone other than a couple of Nazis would blow their stack.

But it's perfectly OK to propose a ban of all Muslims entering the US . . .

As a Jew, I'm naturally inclined to focus on slights to my religion first.  As a human being, though, I am morally obliged to take seriously attacks on all classes of people.

There is right and wrong, and the Trump wing of the GOP has lost all moral authority by virtue of its standing tall and proud for what is wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 12, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
Yeah, as I see it, her tweets created a tempest in a teapot, much ado about very little.

Idiocy occurs on both the left and the right, but the right wing variety is much more dangerous these days.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 12, 2019, 05:13:20 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 12, 2019, 02:31:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 02:07:28 PM
It is hard to have a conversation when the common ground is so devoid of commonality.  Have a nice day.

Have you considered avoiding starting off with sarcasm? That might go a long way towards establishing commonality.

Yeah, it isn't like we fundamentally disagree. We just disagree here on whether AOC's bark is of substance or not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2019, 06:54:53 PM
The Democratic leadership message to the Muslim chicks was a masterpiece of spin.  They couldn't come out and say "we like our Jewish donor money, so STFU," so instead they had to cloak the warning in language about tropes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 12, 2019, 06:58:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2019, 06:54:53 PM
The Democratic leadership message to the Muslim chicks was a masterpiece of spin.  They couldn't come out and say "we like our Jewish donor money, so STFU," so instead they had to cloak the warning in language about tropes.

I am just glad to see "Democratic leadership" and "masterpiece" in the same sentence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 12, 2019, 07:36:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2019, 06:54:53 PM
The Democratic leadership message to the Muslim chicks was a masterpiece of spin.  They couldn't come out and say "we like our Jewish donor money, so STFU," so instead they had to cloak the warning in language about tropes.

Seriously. Lady forgot she's in Congress, folks got to run every 2 years.  Never, EVER badmouth the Benjamins.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 12, 2019, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
She is also getting a lot of support for her ideas from places like the Economist, which grudgingly admits she makes good points about taxation policy and the New York Times which regularly runs editorials pointing out that she has done her homework on this issues and that her ideas are not as radical as people seem to think.  There was a recent piece which argued the radicals are the GOP and that her suggested polices would take America back to more sane taxation policies the US had before it was hijacked by the radical right.

I really don't understand you and others here dismissing her so easily.
I think it's mainly two parts.  The hard right is just totally deranged when it comes to anything involving her.  The moderates without a cause are often susceptible to go down the rabbit hole halfway, and being too busy admiring their rationality to realize that they're still in the rabbit hole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 12, 2019, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 12, 2019, 03:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 12, 2019, 04:31:48 AM
Also she can't being able to resist voicing the backward anti-semitic stuff I suspect he brings from her parents' household and upbringing doesn't help.
Anti-Israel /= Anti-Semitic
No, they're not equal, in a way that a correlation coefficient of 0.99 is technically not equal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2019, 10:20:23 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 12, 2019, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 12, 2019, 03:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 12, 2019, 04:31:48 AM
Also she can't being able to resist voicing the backward anti-semitic stuff I suspect he brings from her parents' household and upbringing doesn't help.
Anti-Israel /= Anti-Semitic
No, they're not equal, in a way that a correlation coefficient of 0.99 is technically not equal.

Unless you're "anti-Israel" to mean something pretty drastic, that's codswallop.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2019, 12:05:53 AM
It's not such a complete correlation. Much of it is anti-western rather than anti-Jewish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 13, 2019, 01:54:49 AM
Can anyone point to an actual Antisemitic tweet she made?  Not a reported and abridged tweet, but an actual complete tweet?  I've found the reporting of what they actually said to be incredibly messed up with blatant editing of them or seemingly intentional misinterpretation when they were summarized.  Now compare the actual tweets to what the President and many others have tweeted and said.  In full.  With context.  There is no legitimate comparison for the levels of Antisemitism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on March 13, 2019, 02:44:35 AM
The Jews are alright, now those fucking Irish......
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 13, 2019, 02:50:14 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2019, 10:20:23 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 12, 2019, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 12, 2019, 03:06:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 12, 2019, 04:31:48 AM
Also she can't being able to resist voicing the backward anti-semitic stuff I suspect he brings from her parents' household and upbringing doesn't help.
Anti-Israel /= Anti-Semitic
No, they're not equal, in a way that a correlation coefficient of 0.99 is technically not equal.

Unless you're "anti-Israel" to mean something pretty drastic, that's codswallop.

I think this Vox article points out how poorly constructed anti-Israeli comments due provide cover for anti-semitic garbage. About half way down is a bit on Labour and Corbyn.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/12/18220241/ilhan-omars-twitter-tweet-anti-semitism
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 13, 2019, 02:52:45 AM
Quote from: katmai on March 13, 2019, 02:44:35 AM
The Jews are alright, now those fucking Irish......

I'll say. :perv:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 13, 2019, 03:32:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2019, 02:50:14 AM
I think this Vox article points out how poorly constructed anti-Israeli comments due provide cover for anti-semitic garbage. About half way down is a bit on Labour and Corbyn.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/12/18220241/ilhan-omars-twitter-tweet-anti-semitism

Your link supports my point, that "there is legitimate criticism of Israel that is not not anti-Semitic.  Which is a no-brainer.

The only question for DGuller was whether "anti-Israel" means "kill them all" or whether it means stop doing that nasty shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 13, 2019, 03:45:12 AM
Speaking out against Saudi Arabia doesn't mean one is anti-Islamic, right?  Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are countries dominated by one religion and home to the holy place associated with their respective religions.  Both have some rather reprehensible actions associated with their respective governments.  Both have a lot of influence in the United States politics.  Both have adherents of the religion that dominates their respective nations within the United States and globally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 13, 2019, 04:11:51 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 13, 2019, 03:45:12 AM
Speaking out against Saudi Arabia doesn't mean one is anti-Islamic, right?  Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are countries dominated by one religion and home to the holy place associated with their respective religions.  Both have some rather reprehensible actions associated with their respective governments.  Both have a lot of influence in the United States politics.  Both have adherents of the religion that dominates their respective nations within the United States and globally.

I'd suggest reading the vox article I posted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 13, 2019, 05:01:47 AM
There are plenty of valid reasons to criticise the present Israeli government but "Israel controls US/world leaders and opinion" is NOT a commentary on that government. Let's not hide behind that obvious bullshit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 13, 2019, 07:19:18 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 13, 2019, 03:45:12 AM
Speaking out against Saudi Arabia doesn't mean one is anti-Islamic, right?  Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are countries dominated by one religion and home to the holy place associated with their respective religions.  Both have some rather reprehensible actions associated with their respective governments.  Both have a lot of influence in the United States politics.  Both have adherents of the religion that dominates their respective nations within the United States and globally.

I think you misunderstand the nature of the relationship of Judaism to Israel, if you are making a serious comparison of it to Wahhabism and Saudi Arabia.  :lol:

Judaism is both a religion and a tribal identity (similar but not identical to an ethnicity). A large percentage of Jews, both in Israel and in the West, are not religious at all. The notion that Israel is "dominated" by religious Judaism in the same way as Saudi Arabia is dominated by Wahhabian Islam is nonsense - which isn't to say that the ultra-religious don't have an irritating amount of clout within Israel. But for all that, Israel is basically a western nation, with (to give but one example) the largest gay community in the middle east - something literally punishable by death in Saudi Arabia.

Moreover, within America, Jews are not uniformly backers of Israel. For historical reasons, Jews tend, as a group, to be *more* liberal than non-Jews, and many Jews are outspoken critics of Israel from the left. That's not unusual--within Israel, many Israelis are critical of their own government, again often from the left. Not something you find much in Saudi Arabia.

This error is similar to assuming (say) that all Irish people are Catholic, and so Ireland is "just like" Saudi Arabia; noting that the Irish are found throughout the United States; and warning that the Irish presence creates a security threat - all those Irish are surely more loyal to the Pope than to America. This position was actually a factor during the election of Kennedy.

Israel has lots of problems, but lumping all Jews together, comparing Israel to Saudi Arabia (or Nazi Germany or Aparthied-era South Africa) isn't a good rhetorical way to highlight those problems.   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 13, 2019, 08:47:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2019, 04:11:51 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 13, 2019, 03:45:12 AM
Speaking out against Saudi Arabia doesn't mean one is anti-Islamic, right?  Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are countries dominated by one religion and home to the holy place associated with their respective religions.  Both have some rather reprehensible actions associated with their respective governments.  Both have a lot of influence in the United States politics.  Both have adherents of the religion that dominates their respective nations within the United States and globally.

I'd suggest reading the vox article I posted.

It's a good article.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 13, 2019, 09:54:02 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 12, 2019, 02:31:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 02:07:28 PM
It is hard to have a conversation when the common ground is so devoid of commonality.  Have a nice day.

Have you considered avoiding starting off with sarcasm? That might go a long way towards establishing commonality.

I started out by listing some of the better known publications that take her ideas seriously.  I am not sure how that was read as sarcasm. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 13, 2019, 10:02:07 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 12, 2019, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 12, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
She is also getting a lot of support for her ideas from places like the Economist, which grudgingly admits she makes good points about taxation policy and the New York Times which regularly runs editorials pointing out that she has done her homework on this issues and that her ideas are not as radical as people seem to think.  There was a recent piece which argued the radicals are the GOP and that her suggested polices would take America back to more sane taxation policies the US had before it was hijacked by the radical right.

I really don't understand you and others here dismissing her so easily.
I think it's mainly two parts.  The hard right is just totally deranged when it comes to anything involving her.  The moderates without a cause are often susceptible to go down the rabbit hole halfway, and being too busy admiring their rationality to realize that they're still in the rabbit hole.

That is why we have you around DGuller. You can set us straight.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 13, 2019, 10:52:04 AM
It's a tough and thankless job, but someone has to do it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 13, 2019, 12:49:55 PM
I agree with Malthus 95%.  The 5% concern is that there has been a real degeneration in governance and human rights in the past decade. The Likud-led government seems to be sliding inexorably toward the Orban-Erdogan-Putin corrupt authoritarian continuum. Israel is still better governed and far more robust rule of law than other nations in the neighborhood but the trend is very troubling.  The treatment of the Palestinians is inexcusable even given the security situation.  Toleration of dissent has gone way down with official efforts to suppress NGOs and retaliate against journalists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 13, 2019, 01:07:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 13, 2019, 12:49:55 PM
I agree with Malthus 95%.  The 5% concern is that there has been a real degeneration in governance and human rights in the past decade. The Likud-led government seems to be sliding inexorably toward the Orban-Erdogan-Putin corrupt authoritarian continuum. Israel is still better governed and far more robust rule of law than other nations in the neighborhood but the trend is very troubling.  The treatment of the Palestinians is inexcusable even given the security situation.  Toleration of dissent has gone way down with official efforts to suppress NGOs and retaliate against journalists.

I don't disagree with any of that; in fact, I posted an article a little while ago about how Bibi was about to be charged with corruption!

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,15761.0.html

Though that (should it happen) really cuts both ways - it shows corruption at the highest level of government while at the same time showing that Israel still adheres to the rule of law - I mean, doing the whole "whattaboutism" thing, the US has an obviously corrupt President, with small chance he'll ever face any consequences.

Israel is facing the same problems other nations seem to be hit with, notably the US - an upsurge in corrupt (and I would also say very morally questionable in many other ways, not least, treatment of Palestinians) right-wing political sentiment, with all sorts of disasterous effects.

No doubt pointing all that out is very valid; but still, there is a world of difference between "Israel is plagued by an upswing in corrupt and morally questionable government acts" and "Israel is inherently comparable to Saudi Arabia". The real problem is this: that many making the latter sort of argument have no idea about the former sort of problems, and would likely still be making the same argument if Israel shed Likud & cleaned up its government act. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 13, 2019, 07:19:18 AM
many Israelis are critical of their own government, again often from the left. Not something you find much in Saudi Arabia.
There is a lot of criticism of their government by Saudis.  I hear the prisons and cemetaries are filled with critics...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 13, 2019, 02:02:49 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 13, 2019, 07:19:18 AM
many Israelis are critical of their own government, again often from the left. Not something you find much in Saudi Arabia.
There is a lot of criticism of their government by Saudis.  I hear the prisons and cemetaries are filled with critics...

They may disapprove of what Jamal Khashoggi had to say but they defended their right to stop him from saying it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 13, 2019, 09:25:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 13, 2019, 01:07:21 PM
No doubt pointing all that out is very valid; but still, there is a world of difference between "Israel is plagued by an upswing in corrupt and morally questionable government acts" and "Israel is inherently comparable to Saudi Arabia". The real problem is this: that many making the latter sort of argument have no idea about the former sort of problems, and would likely still be making the same argument if Israel shed Likud & cleaned up its government act.
Did I say they were inherently comparable?  No.  I said there was a lot of overlap in terms of aspects of their respective locations, populations, influence, and religious significance.  I hope that Bibi's trial goes forward and that his methods and attitudes are on their way out in Israel.  When the leader of Israel says, "...Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people – and of it alone", I do think there can be some parallels drawn to past situations like Apartheid South Africa.  That is a pretty flawed and very damning view of the case which he was referring to if the article here has any credibility (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/.premium-fact-checking-netanyahu-s-claim-that-israel-is-nation-state-of-jews-alone-1.7018976).  If Netanyahu's slow murder of Democracy and rightward course in Israel is halted and a return to Democratic norms and equality amongst its citizens is recognized, a lot of my concerns with Israel will my addressed.  As it stands...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 13, 2019, 10:04:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2019, 02:50:14 AM
I think this Vox article points out how poorly constructed anti-Israeli comments due provide cover for anti-semitic garbage. About half way down is a bit on Labour and Corbyn.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/12/18220241/ilhan-omars-twitter-tweet-anti-semitism
Having read the article, I think this piece is my issue, "There is a fundamental asymmetry, then, in how anti-Semitism is treated when it's on the left and relates to Israel versus when it's on the right and it doesn't."  That, in conjunction with the article, seems to suggest that speaking out against Israel = Antisemitism.  That's a view I just can't get behind.  Can anti-Israel sentiments be used to hide Antisemitism?  Absolutely.  Are they inherently Antisemitic?  Personally I think no.

A side item for me is the massive numbers of anti-BDS Movement laws being passed at the express desire of Israeli lobbying groups.  Regardless of your opinion of the BDS Movement, the fact that these laws are being pushed and passed successfully should be concerning to all.  Here's a nice op-ed on the topic, https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-02-06/anti-bds-bill-approved-by-senate-avoids-first-amendment-questions
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on March 13, 2019, 10:51:38 PM
 :nelson:

Quote
Facebook suffers the most severe outage in its history

14 March 2019 

Facebook is suffering the most severe outage in its history, with key services rendered unusable for users globally for much of Wednesday.

The last time Facebook had a disruption of this magnitude was in 2008, when the site had 150m users - compared to around 2.3bn monthly users today.

Facebook's main product, its two messaging apps and image-sharing site Instagram were all affected.

The cause of the interruption has not yet been made public.

"We're aware that some people are currently having trouble accessing the Facebook family of apps," Facebook said in a statement.
....


Full item here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47562281 (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47562281)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 14, 2019, 07:44:17 AM
That really pissed me off yesterday.  My mom was giving me crap for not posting "Happy Birthday" on my dad's FB page.  Tried all day and it finally worked late evening. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 14, 2019, 07:48:24 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 13, 2019, 09:25:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 13, 2019, 01:07:21 PM
No doubt pointing all that out is very valid; but still, there is a world of difference between "Israel is plagued by an upswing in corrupt and morally questionable government acts" and "Israel is inherently comparable to Saudi Arabia". The real problem is this: that many making the latter sort of argument have no idea about the former sort of problems, and would likely still be making the same argument if Israel shed Likud & cleaned up its government act.
Did I say they were inherently comparable?  No.  I said there was a lot of overlap in terms of aspects of their respective locations, populations, influence, and religious significance.  I hope that Bibi's trial goes forward and that his methods and attitudes are on their way out in Israel.  When the leader of Israel says, "...Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people – and of it alone", I do think there can be some parallels drawn to past situations like Apartheid South Africa.  That is a pretty flawed and very damning view of the case which he was referring to if the article here has any credibility (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/.premium-fact-checking-netanyahu-s-claim-that-israel-is-nation-state-of-jews-alone-1.7018976).  If Netanyahu's slow murder of Democracy and rightward course in Israel is halted and a return to Democratic norms and equality amongst its citizens is recognized, a lot of my concerns with Israel will my addressed.  As it stands...

I see no difference between "inherently comparable" and "a lot of overlap in terms of aspects of their respective locations, populations, influence, and religious significance". Perhaps it would help if you told me why you think these positions are different.

Bibi's statement is simply a restatement of ethnic nationalism - which I agree is an inherent problem, that it was founded as an ethnic nation-state (thus exclusive to one "ethnicity") while attempting to be a modern democracy (thus inclusive of all citizens, regardless of ethnicity), but not one exactly unique to Israel. If a Japanese PM stated "Japan is the nation-state of the Japanese people", he'd simply be stating the obvious. That does not make Japan = Apartheid South Africa, even if some of its practices are obnoxious (example: treatment of Koreans living in Japan: "Zainichi Koreans"). I can't read your article, as it is paywalled, but in Israel the Court ruled that non-Jews are equally entitled to citizenship, and that they did not have to be Jewish to be Israelis (unlike, say, "Zainichi Koreans"). So the example of Israel is *less* "like" apartheid south Africa than Japan - yet that comparison is, for some strange reason, rarely made of Japan.  :hmm: 

This is the problem: the apparent inability of people on the left to critique Israel on its own merits, in its historical context, without making absurd comparisons to unlike cases - which are bound to make the intended targets of such critiques tune out. Much the same as a valid critique of America goes unheard, the moment the person making that critique announces that America is "like" Nazi Germany (or even "overlaps" with Nazi Germany, whatever that means). It's a signal that the person making the critique isn't really interested in being taken seriously in that the simply want to bash, or alternatively, has no idea what they are talking about.

Unfortunately, the political left has become such an echo-chamber on this issue, people on the left appear to literally have no idea how absurd these arguments sound outside of it. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 14, 2019, 07:54:30 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 13, 2019, 10:04:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2019, 02:50:14 AM
I think this Vox article points out how poorly constructed anti-Israeli comments due provide cover for anti-semitic garbage. About half way down is a bit on Labour and Corbyn.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/12/18220241/ilhan-omars-twitter-tweet-anti-semitism
Can anti-Israel sentiments be used to hide Antisemitism?  Absolutely.  Are they inherently Antisemitic?  Personally I think no.


Part of what you are missing, is that while it is absolutely true what you say - anti-Israel sentiment is not the same as anti-Semitism, everyone here I think agrees on that -- anti-Israel (or indeed, anti-any country) sentiment is not a good thing; it is in itself a bias.

Hate what the government of a country is doing and speak out against it, that's fine; simply hating a country for existing is dumb. Yet much anti-Israeli sentiment is about exactly that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 14, 2019, 12:32:01 PM
Anti-Zionism is the recognition that the Jewish people are unique in the world in that they don't deserve self-determination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 14, 2019, 02:04:19 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 14, 2019, 07:54:30 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 13, 2019, 10:04:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2019, 02:50:14 AM
I think this Vox article points out how poorly constructed anti-Israeli comments due provide cover for anti-semitic garbage. About half way down is a bit on Labour and Corbyn.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/12/18220241/ilhan-omars-twitter-tweet-anti-semitism
Can anti-Israel sentiments be used to hide Antisemitism?  Absolutely.  Are they inherently Antisemitic?  Personally I think no.


Part of what you are missing, is that while it is absolutely true what you say - anti-Israel sentiment is not the same as anti-Semitism, everyone here I think agrees on that -- anti-Israel (or indeed, anti-any country) sentiment is not a good thing; it is in itself a bias.

Hate what the government of a country is doing and speak out against it, that's fine; simply hating a country for existing is dumb. Yet much anti-Israeli sentiment is about exactly that.
I don't hate or even dislike Israel for existing.  I don't begrudge the Jewish people the right to have a homeland.  I appreciate their efforts to keep Democracy in a very un-Democratic land.  I respect their efforts to maintain their homeland and the efforts it took to regain it.  I do take issue with how those in power have been acting of late, their treatment of the former Palestinians in Israel, the treatment of those in the Occupied Territories, their stoking of tensions in the region (which I freely admit is mirrored in their neighbors attitudes toward them.  Deescalation could be a nice new tactic to try though.), the call of Antisemitism any time any policy or choice they make is called into question, and their denial of any wrong doing or problems as it pertains to the prior items.  I hope that Bibi does get indicted.  I hope his party loses power and a more moderate and even keeled government takes over.  We shall see though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 14, 2019, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 14, 2019, 12:32:01 PM
Anti-Zionism is the recognition that the Jewish people are unique in the world in that they don't deserve self-determination.

There have been a lot of people who identify as a particular group who would have a case to make they were denied self determinism.  The Jewish people would not be unique in that regard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 14, 2019, 02:36:28 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 14, 2019, 02:04:19 PM
I hope his party loses power
That is possible

Quoteand a more moderate and even keeled government takes over.
I doubt it.  Many Israelis seem fed up with the Palestinians refusal to commit anything to a peace proposal.  Add these to the hardcore zionists who don't believe Arabs should be in the greater Israel, you got a recipe for another Likud-like coallition. 

Or a moderate gets elected and is shot by an extremist Jew.

I do understand Palestinians who refuse a divided patch of lands here&there in a non contiguous state though.

I can't see any kind of deal anytime in a near future (meaning before my eventual death).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 14, 2019, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 14, 2019, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 14, 2019, 12:32:01 PM
Anti-Zionism is the recognition that the Jewish people are unique in the world in that they don't deserve self-determination.

There have been a lot of people who identify as a particular group who would have a case to make they were denied self determinism.  The Jewish people would not be unique in that regard.

There's no issues around anti-Kurdism in the world for example.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 14, 2019, 03:16:53 PM
most people don't know who or what kurds are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 14, 2019, 03:17:43 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 14, 2019, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 14, 2019, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 14, 2019, 12:32:01 PM
Anti-Zionism is the recognition that the Jewish people are unique in the world in that they don't deserve self-determination.

There have been a lot of people who identify as a particular group who would have a case to make they were denied self determinism.  The Jewish people would not be unique in that regard.

There's no issues around anti-Kurdism in the world for example.

Yeah, there cannot be anti-Mountain Turkism!  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 14, 2019, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 14, 2019, 03:16:53 PM
most people don't know who or what kurds are.

No whey.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 14, 2019, 03:19:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 14, 2019, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 14, 2019, 03:16:53 PM
most people don't know who or what kurds are.

No whey.

<_<

If there was a radical anti-punners group I'd join them in a heart beat
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 14, 2019, 03:24:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 14, 2019, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 14, 2019, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 14, 2019, 12:32:01 PM
Anti-Zionism is the recognition that the Jewish people are unique in the world in that they don't deserve self-determination.

There have been a lot of people who identify as a particular group who would have a case to make they were denied self determinism.  The Jewish people would not be unique in that regard.

There's no issues around anti-Kurdism in the world for example.

I think they Kurds would disagree with you.  They have not historically received a lot of love from their neighbours.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 14, 2019, 03:18:07 PM
No whey.

Whey
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 14, 2019, 03:29:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 14, 2019, 03:24:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 14, 2019, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 14, 2019, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 14, 2019, 12:32:01 PM
Anti-Zionism is the recognition that the Jewish people are unique in the world in that they don't deserve self-determination.

There have been a lot of people who identify as a particular group who would have a case to make they were denied self determinism.  The Jewish people would not be unique in that regard.

There's no issues around anti-Kurdism in the world for example.

I think they Kurds would disagree with you.  They have not historically received a lot of love from their neighbours.
I think he was being sarcastik ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 14, 2019, 03:36:27 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 14, 2019, 03:19:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 14, 2019, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 14, 2019, 03:16:53 PM
most people don't know who or what kurds are.

No whey.

<_<

If there was a radical anti-punners group I'd join them in a heart beat

:hug:

All punsters must hang! :ultra:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 14, 2019, 04:00:06 PM
 :lol: I knew BB would like that
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 15, 2019, 05:17:27 AM
Yeah point is, you can't throw a rock in the world without hitting a ground that ethnic groups are arguing about. In significant portions of the world, that argument manifests in wars and ethnic cleansing and forceful (re-)settlements.

But, weirdly, literally the only time these absolutely not antisemitic people are concerned enough about this phenomenom to speak up against it, is when it is done by Jews. Otherwise it fails to register on their interest-radar.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2019, 05:24:56 AM
I think it may be - partially - a similar bias as with the US - they're held to a higher standard because they generally aspire to be better. If Russia invades a neighboring country it's Russia being Russia. If Turkey stomps the Kurds it's Turkey being Turkey.

If the US invade a country, or the Israelis use violence against Palestinians - regardless how justified it may be at the moment - there's always an undercurrent of, "We thought you were better than this."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 15, 2019, 05:59:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2019, 05:24:56 AM
I think it may be - partially - a similar bias as with the US - they're held to a higher standard because they generally aspire to be better. If Russia invades a neighboring country it's Russia being Russia. If Turkey stomps the Kurds it's Turkey being Turkey.

If the US invade a country, or the Israelis use violence against Palestinians - regardless how justified it may be at the moment - there's always an undercurrent of, "We thought you were better than this."

True, that's for sure part of it for some, but in this case not nearly all I think, and this attitude I really dislike anyways. It's the special kind of condescending/patronising racism the Left tends to have.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 06:14:23 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 14, 2019, 02:04:19 PM

I don't hate or even dislike Israel for existing.  I don't begrudge the Jewish people the right to have a homeland.  I appreciate their efforts to keep Democracy in a very un-Democratic land.  I respect their efforts to maintain their homeland and the efforts it took to regain it.  I do take issue with how those in power have been acting of late, their treatment of the former Palestinians in Israel, the treatment of those in the Occupied Territories, their stoking of tensions in the region (which I freely admit is mirrored in their neighbors attitudes toward them.  Deescalation could be a nice new tactic to try though.), the call of Antisemitism any time any policy or choice they make is called into question, and their denial of any wrong doing or problems as it pertains to the prior items.  I hope that Bibi does get indicted.  I hope his party loses power and a more moderate and even keeled government takes over.  We shall see though.

Then we are mostly on the same page.  :)

The Bibi government is hardly unique in denying all wrongdoing they have done. Indeed, that seems practically a worldwide epidemic at the moment.  :lol:

The left has no-one to blame but itself for enabling Bibi to label all detractors as Jew-haters - as it has proved impossible for the left to, apparently, avoid catering to genuinely anti-Semitic types (see: Labour, in the UK). Allowing "anti-Israeli" to become respectable, the above-noted use of comparisons with diverse unpleasant regimes, etc. all play into Bibi's hands - they give him ammunition, they convince his domestic audience that Israel is under siege, etc.

I mean, Bibi's gonna lie and deflect all criticism--that's what he does and you don't really expect any better from him.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 06:28:08 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2019, 05:24:56 AM
I think it may be - partially - a similar bias as with the US - they're held to a higher standard because they generally aspire to be better. If Russia invades a neighboring country it's Russia being Russia. If Turkey stomps the Kurds it's Turkey being Turkey.

If the US invade a country, or the Israelis use violence against Palestinians - regardless how justified it may be at the moment - there's always an undercurrent of, "We thought you were better than this."

Israel was born out of ethnic conflict, though, in the chaos following the end of WW2, and has fought its neighbours - and/or Palestinians - practically continuously ever since. It makes no sense to be disappointed that it fell from a previous state of grace.

Certainly, many Israelis seek peace, but of necessity peace for them means that they win - because if they lose, they cease to exist. That, in essence, is what the conflict is about.

This is the problem for the left (both here and in Israel): they talk peace, and have a very good idea of what peace looks like - but this vision is simply unacceptable to the opposite side, and will lead to conflict just as surely as the vision of the Right. This is why the Right currently has the advantage in domestic Israeli politics, loathsome as they are: that the vision of the Left makes perfect sense, serious efforts have been made to implement it - and the other side has no interest whatsoever in it. Yet a true peace must be agreed with, not merely dictated.

The vision on the Right is 'if they aren't interested in peace, we will just take what we want, wall off the rest, and let them rot". That's bad, but at least it's a plan. The Left has no plan, other than "if we keep talking about a just two-state solution, eventually the other side will listen". The Palestinian plan still appears to be to wait until 'inevitable historical forces' of some sort wipe Israel away, then repopulate their villages, and they are not willing to listen to alternative plans that sign away that dream forever. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on March 15, 2019, 06:44:52 AM
Well, the problem is that Israel is in a situation that leaves them with terrible choices.  The only resolutions that don't lead to bloodshed or atrocities is either a two state or a one state multi-cultural.  Neither one will happen quickly without a radical change in political and social attitudes from the Palestinians.  In that sense the Left's lack of plan is way better than the Right's "we're going to make the situation more unstable and unpleasant and pretend it's not because of what we are doing".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 15, 2019, 07:51:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 14, 2019, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 14, 2019, 12:32:01 PM
Anti-Zionism is the recognition that the Jewish people are unique in the world in that they don't deserve self-determination.

There have been a lot of people who identify as a particular group who would have a case to make they were denied self determinism.  The Jewish people would not be unique in that regard.


I retract my previous statement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 08:08:01 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 15, 2019, 07:51:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 14, 2019, 02:30:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 14, 2019, 12:32:01 PM
Anti-Zionism is the recognition that the Jewish people are unique in the world in that they don't deserve self-determination.

There have been a lot of people who identify as a particular group who would have a case to make they were denied self determinism.  The Jewish people would not be unique in that regard.


I retract my previous statement.

Lots of people have been denied ethno-nationalist self-determination, and languish as a minority in some larger ethno-nation inimical to them (see Kurds in Turkey or Tibetans in China as examples).

What makes Zionism unique, in that it gets condemned for having successfully achieved ethno-nationalist self-determination, as if it that were a uniquely bad thing the Zionists had invented.

Often, ironically enough, by the very same people who have every sympathy with the ethno-nationalist strivings of, say, Kurds or Tibetans (or for that matter, Palestinians).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 15, 2019, 10:13:03 AM
I think your observation is informed mainly by how well we in North American know about the Jewish situation.  But they are not unique in that regard.

A modern example are the Bosniaks.  The dispute over the territorial integrity of Bosnia is what triggered the war in the 90s.  Just this year there were newspaper reports of that conflict threatening to heat up again as Serbians within Bosnia were agitating to become part of Serbia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 15, 2019, 10:18:41 AM
Many people in the West will instinctively side with aggressive authoritarian regimes against democracy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 15, 2019, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 15, 2019, 10:18:41 AM
Many people in the West will instinctively side with aggressive authoritarian regimes against democracy.

Well, in the US, enough to elect one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 10:30:45 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 15, 2019, 10:13:03 AM
I think your observation is informed mainly by how well we in North American know about the Jewish situation.  But they are not unique in that regard.

A modern example are the Bosniaks.  The dispute over the territorial integrity of Bosnia is what triggered the war in the 90s.  Just this year there were newspaper reports of that conflict threatening to heat up again as Serbians within Bosnia were agitating to become part of Serbia.

Indeed, that's part of the point I was making!  :lol: It's not the Israeli situation is unique - as you point out, it isn't - it is that the rhetorical reaction to it is unique, for a whole bunch of reasons. As a form of ethno-nationalism, it gets condemned by people who would never dream of condemning other forms of ethno-nationalism.

Just how many prominent left-wing organizations routinely condemn the Bosniaks for suppressing the Serbs within Bosnia? For creating a Bosniak ethno-nationalist identity that excludes Serbs? I don't know, but it isn't common.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 10:43:16 AM
I do. Fuck the Bosniaks and the Serbs.

Oh wait I am not a prominent left-wing organization. Carry on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 15, 2019, 10:50:14 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 10:30:45 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 15, 2019, 10:13:03 AM
I think your observation is informed mainly by how well we in North American know about the Jewish situation.  But they are not unique in that regard.

A modern example are the Bosniaks.  The dispute over the territorial integrity of Bosnia is what triggered the war in the 90s.  Just this year there were newspaper reports of that conflict threatening to heat up again as Serbians within Bosnia were agitating to become part of Serbia.

Indeed, that's part of the point I was making!  :lol: It's not the Israeli situation is unique - as you point out, it isn't - it is that the rhetorical reaction to it is unique, for a whole bunch of reasons. As a form of ethno-nationalism, it gets condemned by people who would never dream of condemning other forms of ethno-nationalism.

Just how many prominent left-wing organizations routinely condemn the Bosniaks for suppressing the Serbs within Bosnia? For creating a Bosniak ethno-nationalist identity that excludes Serbs? I don't know, but it isn't common.

I think you missed my point.  It is not common in North America. And that is apparently why you have made the claim the Jewish situation is unique.

Spend some time in the former Yugoslavia and you will hear people using the same kind of rhetoric about Bosnian territorial integrity -  which really only exists because it is guaranteed by the US under the Dayton Accords. Further, why must the criticism come from the left only to qualify?  Why is a criticism from other groups which attack the existence of a state less harmful if it is not from "the left".

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 11:07:18 AM
I sure as hell do not get it. How are the Bosniaks an example of how the Jewish situation is not unique? Do you have an additional example?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 11:09:24 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 15, 2019, 10:50:14 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 10:30:45 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 15, 2019, 10:13:03 AM
I think your observation is informed mainly by how well we in North American know about the Jewish situation.  But they are not unique in that regard.

A modern example are the Bosniaks.  The dispute over the territorial integrity of Bosnia is what triggered the war in the 90s.  Just this year there were newspaper reports of that conflict threatening to heat up again as Serbians within Bosnia were agitating to become part of Serbia.

Indeed, that's part of the point I was making!  :lol: It's not the Israeli situation is unique - as you point out, it isn't - it is that the rhetorical reaction to it is unique, for a whole bunch of reasons. As a form of ethno-nationalism, it gets condemned by people who would never dream of condemning other forms of ethno-nationalism.

Just how many prominent left-wing organizations routinely condemn the Bosniaks for suppressing the Serbs within Bosnia? For creating a Bosniak ethno-nationalist identity that excludes Serbs? I don't know, but it isn't common.

I think you missed my point.  It is not common in North America. And that is apparently why you have made the claim the Jewish situation is unique.

Spend some time in the former Yugoslavia and you will hear people using the same kind of rhetoric about Bosnian territorial integrity -  which really only exists because it is guaranteed by the US under the Dayton Accords. Further, why must the criticism come from the left only to qualify?  Why is a criticism from other groups which attack the existence of a state less harmful if it is not from "the left".

It is doubtless true that North Americans are less well-informed about European issues, or interested in them, than Europeans. Of course if you visit the actual place concerned, local affairs will predominate.

The issue is how it is treated by people who are not directly affected by these events. For such people, condemning or praising groups is a matter of ideology, or morality, and not one of self-interest.

For such folks, Israel is treated as a "special case" and not only in North America.

for an truly international perspective, one needs merely to examine UN resolutions. You would, I assume, concede that the US is not a uniquely North American creation. Note how many have to do with Israel, compared with, well, any other issue.

QuoteAs of 2013, Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by United Nations Human Rights Council. Since its creation in 2006—the Council had resolved almost more resolutions condemning Israel than on the rest of the world combined. The 45 resolutions comprised almost half (45.9%) of all country-specific resolutions passed by the Council, not counting those under Agenda Item 10 (countries requiring technical assistance).

Note the number of General Assembly Resolutions, as well.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

It is difficult to avoid the objective conclusion that Israel is treated as a "special case". Either that, or assert that Israel - a middling nation whose situation is, as we both know, not actually unique - is somehow deserving of all that attention.

Why "left wing"? Because that's the context of how this conversation began. It isn't any secret that things like divestment etc. are leftish.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 15, 2019, 12:12:31 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 11:09:24 AM
The issue is how it is treated by people who are not directly affected by these events. For such people, condemning or praising groups is a matter of ideology, or morality, and not one of self-interest.

For such folks, Israel is treated as a "special case" and not only in North America.

I am not sure what you mean by "not directly affected'.  Israel is a significant cornerstone of foreign policy within the Middle East for every western country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 15, 2019, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 06:28:08 AM
The Palestinian plan still appears to be to wait until 'inevitable historical forces' of some sort wipe Israel away, then repopulate their villages, and they are not willing to listen to alternative plans that sign away that dream forever.

There are some Palestinians who support a "one-state" solution - i.e. a single democratic state encompassing Israel in the territories where all residents have citizenship regardless of religion or ethnicity.  The population balance between Israeli Jews and Arabs is currently about 50-50.  This is a solution that most Israelis therefore oppose but it is difficult to come up with a principled reason to do so if the intent is to continue exercising jurisdiction over the territories.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 12:20:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 15, 2019, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 06:28:08 AM
The Palestinian plan still appears to be to wait until 'inevitable historical forces' of some sort wipe Israel away, then repopulate their villages, and they are not willing to listen to alternative plans that sign away that dream forever.

There are some Palestinians who support a "one-state" solution - i.e. a single democratic state encompassing Israel in the territories where all residents have citizenship regardless of religion or ethnicity.  The population balance between Israeli Jews and Arabs is currently about 50-50.  This is a solution that most Israelis therefore oppose but it is difficult to come up with a principled reason to do so if the intent is to continue exercising jurisdiction over the territories.

I mean yes there are people who support that, but I gathered that was a minority in both camps. In any case anybody trying to resolve the situation in a way that might end the conflict will probably be assassinated by somebody.

Just as an aside: are Arabs who are Jewish not considered Arabs? It seems pretty clear they are not, but I was curious exactly how that works. I mean it is not like that is a small minority of Jews in Israel either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 15, 2019, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 12:20:56 PM

Just as an aside: are Arabs who are Jewish not considered Arabs? It seems pretty clear they are not, but I was curious exactly how that works. I mean it is not like that is a small minority of Jews in Israel either.

I think that the way it works is that if you're a Jew, well, you're a Jew regardless of your ethnic background.  If you're not Jewish, and of Middle Eastern background, you're an Arab, whether you're Muslim, Christian, or whatnot.  And if you're neither a Jew nor an Arab, well, there probably aren't many people in Israel who are in that group.

EDIT:  Or I could be completely wrong.  I'm just talking out of my ass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 16, 2019, 07:08:19 AM
Quote from: dps on March 15, 2019, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 12:20:56 PM

Just as an aside: are Arabs who are Jewish not considered Arabs? It seems pretty clear they are not, but I was curious exactly how that works. I mean it is not like that is a small minority of Jews in Israel either.

I think that the way it works is that if you're a Jew, well, you're a Jew regardless of your ethnic background.  If you're not Jewish, and of Middle Eastern background, you're an Arab, whether you're Muslim, Christian, or whatnot.  And if you're neither a Jew nor an Arab, well, there probably aren't many people in Israel who are in that group.

EDIT:  Or I could be completely wrong.  I'm just talking out of my ass.

Let's ask the Druze.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 16, 2019, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 16, 2019, 07:08:19 AM
Let's ask the Druze.

I don't think he posts here any more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 17, 2019, 06:12:26 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54731068_2390870010923601_162272407132831744_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6a8d3ae9c153f4b610753d37fda49b52&oe=5D0D8DE6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on March 17, 2019, 06:32:41 AM
Interesting choice of words. "Beta male, soy drinking hypocrites & depressed feminists" rather than 'soyboy betacucks & legbeards.' Aimed at boomers rather than zoomers, I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 17, 2019, 06:55:43 AM
I hate that guy.  I'd like to kick his head in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 17, 2019, 02:03:17 PM
I don't think anybody alive today is being blamed for 19th century events.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 17, 2019, 02:05:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2019, 02:03:17 PM
I don't think anybody alive today is being blamed for 19th century events.


The Irish weren't slaves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 17, 2019, 02:07:31 PM
Yes but it helps to pretend they were when creating nationalistic narratives.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 18, 2019, 10:59:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2019, 02:07:31 PM
Yes but it helps to pretend they were when creating nationalistic narratives.


It helps less than they think.  If indentured servitude is a form of slavery so would sharecropping.  So guess what?  There are people living that were slaves.  Slave reparations are back on!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 24, 2019, 04:33:57 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54524851_2361255997245956_1048051636032765952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=da5e6433f3e7079f66b3170aa68549d8&oe=5D150C5E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2019, 04:54:58 PM
They're running out of material.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on March 24, 2019, 05:37:13 PM
I think recent developments gave them a bit more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 24, 2019, 06:13:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 24, 2019, 05:37:13 PM
I think recent developments gave them a bit more.

What recent developments?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2019, 06:28:31 PM
I think he's talking about Rachel Maddow's reaction to Teh Report.

Or more properly, Barr's summary, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 24, 2019, 07:30:41 PM
Wow.  What a disgrace to the name "Phillip Schuyler".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2019, 12:34:54 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54521125_169263760745721_2752158762025353216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4414938da90e31426453129625a5af64&oe=5D1AD9CA)

For shame, Valmy! Why is your hometown so unpatriotic? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 25, 2019, 12:46:53 PM
I am not from San Antonio! I am from Austin! :P

I don't know what the heck is going on there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2019, 01:01:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 25, 2019, 12:46:53 PM
I am not from San Antonio! I am from Austin! :P

I don't know what the heck is going on there.

Similar letters. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on March 25, 2019, 02:28:44 PM
Wait, they are on active service, they haven't been demobilized (that was where they were heading) and they complain that they have to a) wait and b) not be allowed to wander about?

I would think that as far as the Army is concerned they are in transit and they better well stay put.

Security risk?  Well, they are from Mississippi so that is a legitimate concern imho.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 25, 2019, 02:30:25 PM
Yeah my thought was maybe it was some sort of Army thing where they had to be debriefed before allowed to mingle with the civilians or something rather than something the airport was worried about. But I have no idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2019, 03:04:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 25, 2019, 12:46:53 PM
I am not from San Antonio! I am from Austin! :P

What's the difference?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 25, 2019, 03:34:48 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2019, 03:04:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 25, 2019, 12:46:53 PM
I am not from San Antonio! I am from Austin! :P

What's the difference?

San Antonio has an NBA team and Austin its Development League affiliate.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 03, 2019, 01:05:53 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/55869034_2153017311401975_2900315621700927488_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=86957732f78f91918eb603c338282f81&oe=5D0CD56C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 03, 2019, 01:09:53 PM
Climate Change = a taxing opportunity - I think Berkut  is right about the Great Filter idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 03, 2019, 02:38:02 PM
Yeah I love strawmen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 04, 2019, 04:12:56 AM
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56247880_2667739493319088_6874558721658191872_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=1ba9a62905bdba90b2dad6ca42f09bb9&oe=5D415951)


Now, see, this is what I mean: it's not like I wouldn't prefer her 100000000000000000000000000x times more to Trump, but she is matching with the same insticts/reflexes as Trump, except from the left. Even the Facebook stuff are mirror images. She is having a fanatic following building around her, and she hasn't done anything else but being an outsider and offering easy radical solutions to her side's real and perceived problems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 04, 2019, 08:42:21 AM
I'm torn.

One the one hand, Democrats finally go on the offensive, on the same field as the Republicans.

On the other hand, I really don't like the fanatism from the left, it does not bode well for the future of the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 04, 2019, 09:08:59 AM
Saying she went to college and interned for a Senator is not a great rejoinder to a dig on her experience. For my 2 c tending bar in Union Square is more impressive then being a Senate intern.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 09:09:00 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 04, 2019, 08:42:21 AM
On the other hand, I really don't like the fanatism from the left, it does not bode well for the future of the US.

No. No it does not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 10:07:59 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 04, 2019, 09:08:59 AM
For my 2 c tending bar in Union Square is more impressive then being a Senate intern.


More importantly, it plays really well with millennials.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 10:10:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 10:07:59 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 04, 2019, 09:08:59 AM
For my 2 c tending bar in Union Square is more impressive then being a Senate intern.


More importantly, it plays really well with millennials.

It plays well with 30 and 40 year olds? Nice they still manage to get out at that age.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 10:25:56 AM
Millennials are 22-37 years old. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 10:28:05 AM
To add, I know a couple 20-something bartenders that are in love with AOC because they feel like they have so much in common with her.  Had to finally mute/unfollow them because they were killing my FB/Twitter feed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 10:25:56 AM
Millennials are 22-37 years old. 

Ah.

Well then they would make up the bulk of the bar attenders.

Remember when Languish was made up of 22-37 year olds? Ah those were the days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on April 04, 2019, 10:29:18 AM
We're so old. :cry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 04, 2019, 10:44:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 10:25:56 AM
Millennials are 22-37 years old. 

Ah.

Well then they would make up the bulk of the bar attenders.

Remember when Languish was made up of 22-37 year olds? Ah those were the days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3KEhWTnWvE
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 04, 2019, 10:46:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bhNz6saaE8
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Legbiter on April 04, 2019, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 04, 2019, 04:12:56 AMNow, see, this is what I mean: it's not like I wouldn't prefer her 100000000000000000000000000x times more to Trump, but she is matching with the same insticts/reflexes as Trump, except from the left. Even the Facebook stuff are mirror images. She is having a fanatic following building around her, and she hasn't done anything else but being an outsider and offering easy radical solutions to her side's real and perceived problems.

Yeah it's beautiful to watch. The more she's attacked, the more free publicity she gets. She's a very stable genius at sucking in all of the attention in the room and focusing it on her.  :showoff:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 11:05:42 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on April 04, 2019, 10:47:24 AM
Yeah it's beautiful to watch. The more she's attacked, the more free publicity she gets. She's a very stable genius at sucking in all of the attention in the room and focusing it on her.  :showoff:

I cannot even being to tell you how frustrating it is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 11:49:03 AM
I keep telling people on the right not to take the bait.  Nobody listens to me :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 04, 2019, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 11:05:42 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on April 04, 2019, 10:47:24 AM
Yeah it's beautiful to watch. The more she's attacked, the more free publicity she gets. She's a very stable genius at sucking in all of the attention in the room and focusing it on her.  :showoff:

I cannot even being to tell you how frustrating it is.

Leslie Moonves on Donald Trump during the campaign: "It May Not Be Good for America, but It's Damn Good for CBS".

The news isn't really the news anymore...it is about perpetuating the outrage cycle and getting eyeballs to watch their right vs. left tribal showdown.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 04, 2019, 12:43:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 10:10:18 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 10:07:59 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 04, 2019, 09:08:59 AM
For my 2 c tending bar in Union Square is more impressive then being a Senate intern.


More importantly, it plays really well with millennials.

It plays well with 30 and 40 year olds? Nice they still manage to get out at that age.

:lol:

Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 10:25:56 AM
Millennials are 22-37 years old. 

The early 20 somethings in my office constantly make the point that they are not. I realized someone has determined that they are, but they want to put some distance between themselves and what they view as the true millennials.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 04, 2019, 12:44:50 PM
The term "millenials" always slightly irked me, as it seemed they were referring to the wrong generation.  Millenials should be those born in the new millenium - so they're just starting to become adults now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 01:04:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 04, 2019, 12:43:06 PM
The early 20 somethings in my office constantly make the point that they are not. I realized someone has determined that they are, but they want to put some distance between themselves and what they view as the true millennials.

Don't blame them one bit.  Generation Z hopefully will be a correction against the millennials, as Gen X was against the Boomers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on April 04, 2019, 01:21:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 11:05:42 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on April 04, 2019, 10:47:24 AM
Yeah it's beautiful to watch. The more she's attacked, the more free publicity she gets. She's a very stable genius at sucking in all of the attention in the room and focusing it on her.  :showoff:

I cannot even being to tell you how frustrating it is.

Have you even listened to her, or watch her in hearings?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 04, 2019, 02:12:56 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on April 04, 2019, 01:21:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 11:05:42 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on April 04, 2019, 10:47:24 AM
Yeah it's beautiful to watch. The more she's attacked, the more free publicity she gets. She's a very stable genius at sucking in all of the attention in the room and focusing it on her.  :showoff:

I cannot even being to tell you how frustrating it is.

Have you even listened to her, or watch her in hearings?


She seemed capable enough in the hearings and had more decorum than Louis Gohmert.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 04, 2019, 02:12:56 PM
She seemed capable enough in the hearings and had more decorum than Louis Gohmert.

Yeah but Louis Gohmert might be the stupidest man in Texas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 04, 2019, 02:20:47 PM
Sounds like half of C-Span's viewership is in this thread.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on April 04, 2019, 02:30:21 PM
I don't think I subscribe to any of AOC's politics but I think she is a nice young woman with a lot of potential, who will grow into a powerful leader for the Democrats. She's personable, quick, reasonably smart, and courageous. Demonizing her is stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 04, 2019, 02:40:53 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 01:04:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 04, 2019, 12:43:06 PM
The early 20 somethings in my office constantly make the point that they are not. I realized someone has determined that they are, but they want to put some distance between themselves and what they view as the true millennials.

Don't blame them one bit.  Generation Z hopefully will be a correction against the millennials, as Gen X was against the Boomers.

Anecdotally I can tell you that not one of them mentions the need for work life balance.   I often find myself telling them to leave the office at the end of my work day, not work weekends, and I find them coming in earlier than me.  Something no Millennial in my office has ever done.  So I am hopeful that is the case.

My pet theory is that the Millennials came of age during the economic good times leading up to the Great Recession while the Zers came of age during the after affects of the Great Recession causing a very different set of expectations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 04, 2019, 02:44:17 PM
Someone in their early 20s possibly isn't a millenial.
The oldest millenials were born in the early 90s.

Digital natives suck. They've not had to put up with half the shit millenials have.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on April 04, 2019, 02:46:06 PM
It's 1982 to 1999.

I wonder what we call the babies of 2018, 2019 & on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 02:51:44 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on April 04, 2019, 02:30:21 PM
I don't think I subscribe to any of AOC's politics but I think she is a nice young woman with a lot of potential, who will grow into a powerful leader for the Democrats. She's personable, quick, reasonably smart, and courageous. Demonizing her is stupid.

Well it is obviously being done as a strategy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 03:17:55 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 04, 2019, 02:40:53 PM
Anecdotally I can tell you that not one of them mentions the need for work life balance.   I often find myself telling them to leave the office at the end of my work day, not work weekends, and I find them coming in earlier than me.  Something no Millennial in my office has ever done.  So I am hopeful that is the case.

That is encouraging. 

QuoteMy pet theory is that the Millennials came of age during the economic good times leading up to the Great Recession while the Zers came of age during the after affects of the Great Recession causing a very different set of expectations.

I think there's something to that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 04, 2019, 03:40:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 04, 2019, 02:12:56 PM
She seemed capable enough in the hearings and had more decorum than Louis Gohmert.

Yeah but Louis Gohmert might be the stupidest man in Texas.


So that's why you guys keep sending him to Washington.  To keep him out of Texas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 03:45:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 04, 2019, 03:40:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 04, 2019, 02:12:56 PM
She seemed capable enough in the hearings and had more decorum than Louis Gohmert.

Yeah but Louis Gohmert might be the stupidest man in Texas.


So that's why you guys keep sending him to Washington.  To keep him out of Texas.

We don't send our best and brightest into politics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 04, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 03:45:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 04, 2019, 03:40:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 04, 2019, 02:12:56 PM
She seemed capable enough in the hearings and had more decorum than Louis Gohmert.

Yeah but Louis Gohmert might be the stupidest man in Texas.


So that's why you guys keep sending him to Washington.  To keep him out of Texas.

We don't send our best and brightest into politics.

Texas was home to two (arguably three) Presidents! :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2019, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 04, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
Texas was home to two (arguably three) Presidents! :o

Yes and I freaking tried to warn people before the second (arguably third) one. "He was the governor of Texas, so surely he must be a brilliant and accomplished man!" Yeah....no. If you want the brilliant leaders from Texas you need to look at the private sector. Like Ross Per...ok bad example.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 04, 2019, 04:36:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 04, 2019, 12:44:50 PM
The term "millenials" always slightly irked me, as it seemed they were referring to the wrong generation.  Millenials should be those born in the new millenium - so they're just starting to become adults now.

Well stop being confused. Millenials, like myself, were coming of age around the millenia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on April 04, 2019, 06:27:22 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 03:17:55 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 04, 2019, 02:40:53 PM
Anecdotally I can tell you that not one of them mentions the need for work life balance.   I often find myself telling them to leave the office at the end of my work day, not work weekends, and I find them coming in earlier than me.  Something no Millennial in my office has ever done.  So I am hopeful that is the case.

That is encouraging. 

No, it's depressing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 05, 2019, 03:56:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 04, 2019, 04:36:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 04, 2019, 12:44:50 PM
The term "millenials" always slightly irked me, as it seemed they were referring to the wrong generation.  Millenials should be those born in the new millenium - so they're just starting to become adults now.

Well stop being confused. Millenials, like myself, were coming of age around the millenia.

I don't think there's many around today from 1000.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on April 05, 2019, 06:43:14 AM
Theory:
Older generations use social media mostly spread conspiracy theories and chain letters in garish image macro form; very few are extremely online.

Millennials are young enough to have their lives consumed by social media, but are old enough to remember the Time Before. This causes profound psychological distress.

Zoomers know no other existence and are thus prepared to thrive in the world as it is.


Alternative theory:
Millennials are starting to become established and have kids, while Zoomers are working themselves to the bone to get their foot in the door.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 05, 2019, 06:48:38 AM
QuoteMillennials are young enough to have their lives consumed by social media, but are old enough to remember the Time Before. This causes profound psychological distress.

Zoomers know no other existence and are thus prepared to thrive in the world as it is.

This is probably correct.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 05, 2019, 07:35:59 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on April 04, 2019, 06:27:22 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 04, 2019, 03:17:55 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 04, 2019, 02:40:53 PM
Anecdotally I can tell you that not one of them mentions the need for work life balance.   I often find myself telling them to leave the office at the end of my work day, not work weekends, and I find them coming in earlier than me.  Something no Millennial in my office has ever done.  So I am hopeful that is the case.

That is encouraging. 

No, it's depressing.

We have to remember the untold millions whose final words were ".....if only I'd spent more time in the office"  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 05, 2019, 08:59:33 AM
Or better yet, if only I had a good job - will that be a grande?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 05, 2019, 09:06:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 05, 2019, 08:59:33 AM
Or better yet, if only I had a good job - will that be a grande?

I have to say that even with the Millennial generational reputation I am kind of impressed some hot shot lawyers would ever discuss something like "work-life balance".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 05, 2019, 09:20:13 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 05, 2019, 09:06:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 05, 2019, 08:59:33 AM
Or better yet, if only I had a good job - will that be a grande?

I have to say that even with the Millennial generational reputation I am kind of impressed some hot shot lawyers would ever discuss something like "work-life balance".

It's a real problem, leading to all sorts of structural problems.

To give but one example, the whole gender balance thing. Incoming associates are at par (equal numbers of men and women), but not at the partner level. A big part of the problem is that fewer women are willing to put up with a profession with no balance - many want to have children at some point, and as a generality, women are on average more invested than men in the day-to-day lives of young children.  So female associates tend, all else being equal, to be more likely to go into less time-demanding legal fields if they have kids - they work in-house for corporations or for the government.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 05, 2019, 09:23:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 05, 2019, 09:06:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 05, 2019, 08:59:33 AM
Or better yet, if only I had a good job - will that be a grande?

I have to say that even with the Millennial generational reputation I am kind of impressed some hot shot lawyers would ever discuss something like "work-life balance".

Your assumptions are interesting. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 19, 2019, 06:58:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57154649_2440229449320990_5680639297489731584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5fa6e8923b4dc46942eeed4d93ee1e99&oe=5D3E510F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on April 19, 2019, 07:04:22 AM

Intelligent design?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2019, 09:49:43 AM
God's design to test their faith?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 21, 2019, 04:41:53 AM
I guess Conchita Wurst above here has one point: if this horrible Sri Lanka attack was done in the developed world against a Muslim minority, "Islamophobia" would be blamed. But in this case there will be no mention of "Christanophobia".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 02:12:53 PM
Quote from: Tamas on April 21, 2019, 04:41:53 AM
I guess Conchita Wurst above here has one point: if this horrible Sri Lanka attack was done in the developed world against a Muslim minority, "Islamophobia" would be blamed. But in this case there will be no mention of "Christanophobia".

It's pretty much BS.  Crazy Australian guy specifically targeted Muslims.  Jihadis happily kill any Westerner, regardless of religion.  They didn't ask the non-Christians to leave the Madrid subway or the World Trade Center before blowing them up,
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on April 21, 2019, 03:34:46 PM
They specifically targeted churches, Yi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 21, 2019, 07:19:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?


I think we could probably do something with the hatred of the Yazidis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on April 21, 2019, 08:22:12 PM
Quote from: Tamas on April 21, 2019, 04:41:53 AM
I guess Conchita Wurst above here has one point: if this horrible Sri Lanka attack was done in the developed world against a Muslim minority, "Islamophobia" would be blamed. But in this case there will be no mention of "Christanophobia".
Oh there are plenty of people who only get worked up about atrocities that target christians. It helps them maintain their martyr complexes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 06:01:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time.

If only semantic manipulation could not grow and change over time. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 22, 2019, 06:34:05 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 06:01:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time.

If only semantic manipulation could not grow and change over time. :hmm:

The use of -phobia in a non-medical context (and your assertion that -phobia just means "fear of" is the medical definition, not the broader informal use) isn't new and isn't "semantic manipulation."  It's how languages work.  At least the "Christianophobia types" aren't trying to use Greek root words like the medical types do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 09:32:50 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 22, 2019, 06:34:05 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 06:01:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time.

If only semantic manipulation could not grow and change over time. :hmm:

The use of -phobia in a non-medical context (and your assertion that -phobia just means "fear of" is the medical definition, not the broader informal use) isn't new and isn't "semantic manipulation."  It's how languages work.  At least the "Christianophobia types" aren't trying to use Greek root words like the medical types do.

Using some psychiatry language to describe and diabolise opponents reminds too much of the distorted Soviet use over here, so let us get out of the " Cage aux phobes", shan't we? It's not like we use gynophobia instead of misogyny, unless precisely in a medical context, alleged evolution of the language or not.
You hit almost the nail on the head, with the remark about "Christianophobia types", it's indeed one of those manipulative uses. As for languages, maybe English had a headstart with the US Identity politics left crowd, but for other languages the manipulative use of phobia only appeared recently.

PS : irrational fear actually, before purists strike at me, cf. agoraphobia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 22, 2019, 09:37:35 AM
So this is just some phobia regarding how people use terms in English? :zzz
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:22:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 09:32:50 AM
You hit almost the nail on the head, with the remark about "Christianophobia types", it's indeed one of those manipulative uses. As for languages, maybe English had a headstart with the US Identity politics left crowd, but for other languages the manipulative use of phobia only appeared recently.

The use of "phobia" in English in this context, e.g. "Francophobia", "Anglophobia", "Russophobia," "Sinophobia", etc. is long and well-established and has nothing to do with the "US Identity politics left crowd."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 10:26:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 09:37:35 AM
So this is just some phobia regarding how people use terms in English? :zzz

Phobia (Fear) ≠ Hate
Should be even easier than distinguishing the bubbly stuff you drink from champagne.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 10:34:26 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:22:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 09:32:50 AM
You hit almost the nail on the head, with the remark about "Christianophobia types", it's indeed one of those manipulative uses. As for languages, maybe English had a headstart with the US Identity politics left crowd, but for other languages the manipulative use of phobia only appeared recently.

The use of "phobia" in English in this context, e.g. "Francophobia", "Anglophobia", "Russophobia," "Sinophobia", etc. is long and well-established and has nothing to do with the "US Identity politics left crowd."

So the misuse has gained acceptance? Sad for English, but Garbon claimed this is how languages evolve, not just limiting it to English.
"Francophobia" (still hate the term) having some local champions on Languish.  :D (not you).
It's true that fear of foreigners turns more often into hate than the other so-called phobias, though hate of foreigners is not necessary linked to fear.

In French, ridiculous uses such as grossophobie (sic) only showed up recently.
Nothing to do with he US Identity Politics left? Unfortunately, they, and their copycats abroad love using phobia for whatever political purpose. Hence the Muray quote, sortir de la cage aux phobes, a pun with Cage aux Folles the Bird Cage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 22, 2019, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time. :hmm:

Well I do think if you are going to use "phobia" the idea is there is an irrational reaction going on. So there is a phobic type reaction going on, or at least that is the implication and why "homophobia" was used for example.

I would rather we go that way then some kind of anti-intellectual take like the one you made. Languages and word use do matter and are worth discussing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
It appears from some quick searches that this use of -phobia goes back at least to the 19th century. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 22, 2019, 10:52:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
It appears from some quick searches that this use of -phobia goes back at least to the 19th century.

The left-wing rot goes deeper than we imagined!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on April 22, 2019, 11:05:29 AM
Indeed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 22, 2019, 11:06:22 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
It appears from some quick searches that this use of -phobia goes back at least to the 19th century. 

Xenophobia I presume?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 22, 2019, 11:10:49 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 10:34:26 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:22:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 09:32:50 AM
You hit almost the nail on the head, with the remark about "Christianophobia types", it's indeed one of those manipulative uses. As for languages, maybe English had a headstart with the US Identity politics left crowd, but for other languages the manipulative use of phobia only appeared recently.

The use of "phobia" in English in this context, e.g. "Francophobia", "Anglophobia", "Russophobia," "Sinophobia", etc. is long and well-established and has nothing to do with the "US Identity politics left crowd."

Sad for English, but Garbon claimed this is how languages evolve, not just limiting it to English.

But Garbon's claim is correct.  The meaning of words do change over time.  Sometimes they change so much that they come to mean the opposite of what they had previously meant.

Take the word "nice" as an example.  What is happening with the word phobia is far less extreme.  A phobia is ascribed to an irrational fear - which is apt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 22, 2019, 11:18:00 AM
Quote from: PDH on April 22, 2019, 10:52:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
It appears from some quick searches that this use of -phobia goes back at least to the 19th century.

The left-wing rot goes deeper than we imagined!

That was also the era of Marx and Engels. We may not be looking at generic left wing rot: this may be a genuine communist plot...

"The bourgeoisie, in truth, is bound to fear the stupidity of the masses so long as they remain conservative, and the insight of the masses as soon as they become revolutionary. Fear defines the outlook of the bourgeoisie to the masses, and as such the various prejudices of the bourgeoisie should be defined as phobias, for that is what they truly are." - Karl Marx

Dear god it is true...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 12:24:03 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 22, 2019, 11:18:00 AM
That was also the era of Marx and Engels. We may not be looking at generic left wing rot: this may be a genuine communist plot...

"The bourgeoisie, in truth, is bound to fear the stupidity of the masses so long as they remain conservative, and the insight of the masses as soon as they become revolutionary. Fear defines the outlook of the bourgeoisie to the masses, and as such the various prejudices of the bourgeoisie should be defined as phobias, for that is what they truly are." - Karl Marx

Dear god it is true...

Good one!  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 22, 2019, 01:45:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 22, 2019, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time. :hmm:

Well I do think if you are going to use "phobia" the idea is there is an irrational reaction going on. So there is a phobic type reaction going on, or at least that is the implication and why "homophobia" was used for example.

I would rather we go that way then some kind of anti-intellectual take like the one you made. Languages and word use do matter and are worth discussing.

It's anti-intellectual to note that meanings change over time? Duque was being a stick in the mud over a meaning that had been adopted long ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2019, 01:58:11 PM
@Duque

You're preaching to the choir.  I was one of those fighting the valiant rearguard action against the overgeneralization of homophobia.  But unfortunately that ship has already sailed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 22, 2019, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2019, 01:58:11 PM
@Duque

You're preaching to the choir.  I was one of those fighting the valiant rearguard action against the overgeneralization of homophobia.  But unfortunately that ship has already sailed.

That phrase means the audience is in agreement.  In this case he is preaching to some crank well outside the Church - probably blocking traffic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 22, 2019, 03:27:15 PM
In the English language "hydrophobia" can refer to rabies.   Instead of "-phobes" we could just say bigots.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:07:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 22, 2019, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2019, 01:58:11 PM
@Duque

You're preaching to the choir.  I was one of those fighting the valiant rearguard action against the overgeneralization of homophobia.  But unfortunately that ship has already sailed.

That phrase means the audience is in agreement.  In this case he is preaching to some crank well outside the Church - probably blocking traffic.

But is he blocking traffic for the environment? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 22, 2019, 05:17:47 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:07:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 22, 2019, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2019, 01:58:11 PM
@Duque

You're preaching to the choir.  I was one of those fighting the valiant rearguard action against the overgeneralization of homophobia.  But unfortunately that ship has already sailed.

That phrase means the audience is in agreement.  In this case he is preaching to some crank well outside the Church - probably blocking traffic.

But is he blocking traffic for the environment? :hmm:

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 06:53:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2019, 01:58:11 PM
@Duque

You're preaching to the choir.  I was one of those fighting the valiant rearguard action against the overgeneralization of homophobia.  But unfortunately that ship has already sailed.

Point taken. I still don't like the misuse. However, I still believe the jury is still out in French or in Portuguese, for that matter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on April 22, 2019, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 22, 2019, 03:27:15 PM
In the English language "hydrophobia" can refer to rabies.   Instead of "-phobes" we could just say bigots.

I knew that hydrophobia is a symptom of rabies, but I'd never heard it used to mean rabies.  Buy I checked, and dictionary.com agrees with you.  In fact, it lists "rabies" as the first definition of hydrophobia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 23, 2019, 07:46:26 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56544696_10157120591364834_1712152604760342528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=83f5cd43e79f0c19e6b0898a80269d2f&oe=5D3CCCA0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 23, 2019, 09:37:23 AM
 :yucky:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 24, 2019, 05:12:56 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57840078_10216622057397399_4133341070991818752_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=08a25f069a9b61981907c099f57c3bbe&oe=5D2A59D2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2019, 07:27:42 AM
I mean...it would be great if they were right about that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 24, 2019, 07:31:07 AM
If the Left had any seriousness about wanting tackle climate change, they would start denying it is happening.. It would immediately launch the radical right on an anti-climate change crusade. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 24, 2019, 03:27:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on April 24, 2019, 07:31:07 AM
If the Left had any seriousness about wanting tackle climate change, they would start denying it is happening.. It would immediately launch the radical right on an anti-climate change crusade. :P

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 24, 2019, 04:22:12 PM
For whatever reason the browser I use doesn't show all of the images* posted on Languish, thankfully that seems doubly the case for this particular thread, something I'm guessing I should be eternally grateful for.  :D




* possible because they're are more likely to be cross posted from social media sources?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 02, 2019, 12:25:09 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56965593_1215899748589924_8876108305882152960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=453f37d53c300d48821e0a95b43c9e7f&oe=5D60E9E9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 02, 2019, 12:36:38 PM
 :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 02, 2019, 12:45:32 PM
The guy shown standing behind Nehemiah and shooting his bow into Nehemiah's foot must be Mueller.  :D 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 02, 2019, 12:48:45 PM
Is that posted in earnest? I can never tell anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 02, 2019, 12:52:15 PM
I doubt Syt believes Trump was chosen by God.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 02, 2019, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 02, 2019, 12:52:15 PM
I doubt Syt believes Trump was chosen by God.  ;)

I meant the original person on Facebook :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 02, 2019, 12:59:20 PM
I have no reason to believe otherwise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 02, 2019, 01:18:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 02, 2019, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 02, 2019, 12:52:15 PM
I doubt Syt believes Trump was chosen by God.  ;)

I meant the original person on Facebook :P

Teh Russians??
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 02, 2019, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 02, 2019, 01:18:56 PM
Teh Russians??

Godless KGB commies? Probably.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on May 02, 2019, 01:58:18 PM
If I was going to compare President Trump to a Biblical figure, it wouldn't be Nehemiah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on May 02, 2019, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: dps on May 02, 2019, 01:58:18 PM
If I was going to compare President Trump to a Biblical figure, it wouldn't be Nehemiah.

Let my beloved come to his garden, and grab its choicest fruits
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 02, 2019, 04:39:39 PM
https://theoldschoolpatriot.com/lefts-eerie-silence/

QuoteEerie Silence From the Left . . .

Yesterday the Democrat (socialist) controlled House of Representatives held a committee hearing on "Medicare for all." Oh, the abject hubris of the progressive socialist leftists to push a far left policy agenda when we see what is happening in Venezuela. Then again, perhaps they are not paying attention to what is happening in what was once one of the most prosperous nations in our hemisphere, in the world.

Have you realized how little you have been hearing from the progressive socialist left in America on the subject? When was the last time you heard the cast of characters — Sanders, Warren, Harris, O'Rourke, Swalwell, Ocasio-Cortez, Buttigieg, Biden — address the humanitarian crisis to our south?

Hey, all you leftist trolls who surf this website, why are y'all not speaking out on this travesty? Just gotta wonder, why is it that you Democrat (socialists) have so much to say, falsely, about President Trump colluding with Russians, yet y'all refuse to denounce the Russian influence in Venezuela? Really?

Consider the nations, leaders, who are aligning themselves in support of the Maduro regime — Russia, China, Iran, Turkey. Cuba, and Nicaragua. These are all dictators, autocrats, and theocrats. These are all countries who suppress individual rights and freedoms, oft times brutally. These are communist, socialist, leftist . . .Uh-oh, looks like I just answered the question. You progressive socialists in America will not speak out about what is happening in Venezuela, because you want that for us here in America. You all are the ones truly guilty of collusion with Russia, ideological collusion. You all are the ones who, like Hugo Chavez and all of history's socialist dictators, would love to ban private gun ownership so that you can implement by way of threat, coercion, intimidation, mandate, and violence your ideological agenda.

You, progressive socialists, are aligned with the worst and most brutish leaders in the world, and your silence is very telling.

Matter of fact, it was the dubious, and questionable, Rep. Ilhan Omar who made assertions placing her into the camp of Venezuela's socialist dictator, Nicolas Maduro. She claimed that the United States of America was supporting a coup in the country. A coup? Heck, that is what the progressive socialist left, led by the Obama administration, was seeking to enact against a duly elected president of these United States by claiming Donald Trump was a Russian agent. Unless Ms. Omar is totally ignorant, she is more of an agent of Russia, aligning herself with Vladimir Putin and his puppet mastery of Maduro.

Let's recap: Venezuela sits on the greatest amount of oil reserves in the world, yet the people are starving. The people of Venezuela are eating their own pets, killing zoo animals, searching for drinking water in sewers. They were promised the socialist "land of milk and honey" by way of the infamous word, "free." They were told that wealth would be redistributed from those who had worked hard and earned their wealth and prosperity for them. They were told that the government, as we see in Cuba, would supply all their needs, yet there is a lack of medical supplies.

How was Venezuela set upon this road to perdition? Yes, back in 2011-2012 the individual right to be armed was revoked, banned, taken away. Look at what that has gotten them today, thus the reason I wrote yesterday about why we have the Second Amendment in America.

Socialists of a feather flock together, be it those here in America, Justin Trudeau in Canada, or Russia, China, Cuba, Iran, Turkey, and Nicaragua. All of these leaders believe in the equality of outcomes directed by their tyranny, their totalitarianism. No different from what we are hearing here in America, actually, confirmed by the lack of what we are hearing by our deranged, delusional progressive socialists in America.

Hmm, have you noticed that our little darling leftist diva, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, has been utterly silent on the developments in Venezuela? I guess that if Nicolas Maduro had a daughter, she would not exactly look like, but damn sure think like our own little Evita Peron. And yes, Argentina was a prosperous country also, until a socialist dictator named Juan Peron and his similar populism took hold of that country.

Just reminding y'all about the quote attributed to one George Santayana, "those who fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." Socialism sucks folks, so why keep repeating its failures?




Allen West

During his 22 year career in the United States Army, Lieutenant Colonel West served in several combat zones and received many honors including a Bronze Star, three Meritorious Service Medals, three Army Commendation Medals, one with Valor device, and a Valorous Unit Award.

In November of 2010, Allen was elected to the United States Congress, representing Florida's 22nd District.

He is a Fox News Contributor, Director of the Booker T. Washington Initiative at the Texas Public Policy Foundation, Senior Fellow at the Media Research Center, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of Guardian of the Republic: An American Ronin's Journey to Family, Faith and Freedom, and, Hold Texas, Hold the Nation: Victory or Death, published October 16, 2018, from Brown Books Publishing Group.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 02, 2019, 05:35:15 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 02, 2019, 12:25:09 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56965593_1215899748589924_8876108305882152960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=453f37d53c300d48821e0a95b43c9e7f&oe=5D60E9E9)


Wait... God didn't chose Nehemiah... a foreign power chose Nehemiah.  He worked for the Iranian government.  He wasn't a builder, he was a flunky.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 02, 2019, 05:35:17 PM
Quotein what was once one of the most prosperous nations in our hemisphere, in the world.
err... hey, what??   When was that?  6000 years ago?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2019, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2019, 05:35:15 PM
Wait... God didn't chose Nehemiah... a foreign power chose Nehemiah.  He worked for the Iranian government.  He wasn't a builder, he was a flunky.

Yes but the wall did wonders stopping Roman invaders.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2019, 05:45:17 PM
Like I said before, evangelicals are the most insane demographic in America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 02, 2019, 05:59:04 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2019, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 02, 2019, 05:35:15 PM
Wait... God didn't chose Nehemiah... a foreign power chose Nehemiah.  He worked for the Iranian government.  He wasn't a builder, he was a flunky.

Yes but the wall did wonders stopping Roman invaders.


Also, Israel had sanctuary cities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2019, 06:44:54 PM
The most logical reading of the Books of Ezra and Nehemiah is that the Torah as we know it today is an exilic creation - i.e. that it was a product of the Israeli elites forced into Babylonian exile, but then coming into contact with more literate religious traditions and adjusting their own national and religious mythology in response. That explains the action in Ezra and Nehemiah where learned exiles return to the ancestral homeland and encounter hostility and skepticism.  The biblical books describe this as ignorant backsliding and Ezra-Nehemiah as restorers of the old religion.  More likely, the natives were just practicing their old traditions where the putative national god Yahweh shares pride of place with other regional deities and traditions.  Ezra-Nehemiah aren't purging foreign ideas for Old Time Religion, they are purging the Old Time Religion for their new fangled and foreign-influenced ideas.  Thus explaining all the resistance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 02, 2019, 10:14:47 PM
Minsky, destroying Facebook memes since... ah, well, since before FB existed!  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 02, 2019, 10:20:13 PM
Does one image make a meme?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 02, 2019, 11:12:53 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 02, 2019, 10:20:13 PM
Does one image make a meme?
isn't it how they're called, one image with text?

I guess I was wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 02, 2019, 11:57:18 PM
I just don't think that image will have legs. Metaphorically speaking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 03, 2019, 01:10:36 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2019, 06:44:54 PM
The most logical reading of the Books of Ezra and Nehemiah is that the Torah as we know it today is an exilic creation - i.e. that it was a product of the Israeli elites forced into Babylonian exile, but then coming into contact with more literate religious traditions and adjusting their own national and religious mythology in response. That explains the action in Ezra and Nehemiah where learned exiles return to the ancestral homeland and encounter hostility and skepticism.  The biblical books describe this as ignorant backsliding and Ezra-Nehemiah as restorers of the old religion.  More likely, the natives were just practicing their old traditions where the putative national god Yahweh shares pride of place with other regional deities and traditions.  Ezra-Nehemiah aren't purging foreign ideas for Old Time Religion, they are purging the Old Time Religion for their new fangled and foreign-influenced ideas.  Thus explaining all the resistance.

I think you have a point here, though I don't know when the Judeans became entirely monotheistic.  The Samaritans did not go into Captivity and they are also monotheistic.  Still your broader point stands, it's likely that the Judeans who went to Babylon were fundamentally changed by the experience.  In a sense they came to Babylon as Judeans and returned as Jews.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 03, 2019, 04:59:54 AM
"In the Shadow of the Sword" is an excellent book about that very period.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 05, 2019, 04:48:03 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5y5PpkWwAANP7s.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5x62p8W4AAXagD.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 06, 2019, 03:15:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56819170_2403264693050908_3168025902537768960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a0a19a357fb3f5ff4a63d87ce6b9ef17&oe=5D657EF1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 06, 2019, 03:44:15 AM
The grammar's surprisingly good. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 06, 2019, 08:48:07 AM
Thanks :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2019, 08:55:22 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 06, 2019, 08:48:07 AM
Thanks :hug:

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 06, 2019, 05:44:57 PM
Outrageous. Typical Republican propaganda to claim that raising taxes is really more important to Democrats than killing babies. Every decent rational person knows that killing babies is top priority, even if it means keeping a couple taxes unraised.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 06, 2019, 06:58:46 PM
Keeping the electoral college is obviously a point of emphasis for the right wing, now that winning the most votes is impossible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 06, 2019, 07:36:31 PM
You overestimate the US voting public.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2019, 07:43:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 06, 2019, 07:36:31 PM
You overestimate the US voting public.

Maybe if you joined it, it would be a little better -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 08, 2019, 08:31:46 PM
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59988884_1010057555849634_3999624767538724864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=7c769ac1e619c7dac3958013e357008c&oe=5D615644)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on May 08, 2019, 08:58:10 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 10, 2019, 10:09:22 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/59750866_298760174380881_1563621739332632576_n.png?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=02ee2a986c1684957eee5844330e6337&oe=5D60A408)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 16, 2019, 10:38:37 PM
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60291524_2198828626891122_511622160771448832_n.png?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=c29d2cc9bd8af3da7a55aecf9295e25e&oe=5D5CFEF4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 17, 2019, 02:39:41 AM
From r/wtfstockphotos:

(https://i.redd.it/wc1hck9lxox21.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 17, 2019, 04:11:45 AM
 :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 17, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
Assange's Australian cult.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 17, 2019, 09:00:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 06, 2019, 03:15:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56819170_2403264693050908_3168025902537768960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a0a19a357fb3f5ff4a63d87ce6b9ef17&oe=5D657EF1)


Most of this was the actual Republican platform circa 1860.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on May 20, 2019, 02:50:15 PM
No it wasn't.

The ones I can see some truth to are:

raise taxes: Republicans in 1860 did support higher tariffs to protect industry, and temporary taxes to support the war effort (when that started the following year).
open borders: there had never been an immigration law in US history. I don't think you can really call the republicans in 1860 an especially pro immigrant party, however - they introduced and passed the country's first immigration exclusion bills the following decade.
suppress free speech: I guess you can make a case they did suppress free speech while putting down a rebellion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 20, 2019, 02:52:34 PM
The Republicans were partially created by the No-Nothings so they always had anti-immigrant tendencies. Besides, immigrants were the northern Democrats' base.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 21, 2019, 02:06:07 PM
(https://storage.journaldequebec.com/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/jdx-prod-images/b1411445-2924-493a-86cc-cffb193daacc_JDX-NO-RATIO_WEB.jpg?quality=80&version=0&size=1936x)
Anti-abortion law.
love it! :)  (the pic, not the law!)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 21, 2019, 03:18:24 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 20, 2019, 02:50:15 PM
No it wasn't.

The ones I can see some truth to are:

raise taxes: Republicans in 1860 did support higher tariffs to protect industry, and temporary taxes to support the war effort (when that started the following year).
open borders: there had never been an immigration law in US history. I don't think you can really call the republicans in 1860 an especially pro immigrant party, however - they introduced and passed the country's first immigration exclusion bills the following decade.
suppress free speech: I guess you can make a case they did suppress free speech while putting down a rebellion.


I doesn't say "Immigration" it says "Open borders".  The US had Open borders in 1860 and the GOP did not see fit to change that.  They also were very much against taking away guns... from the rebels.  There is an interesting political cartoon about John C. Freemont where they accuse him of supporting Socialism, Catholicism, and Feminism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 21, 2019, 03:19:06 PM



Uh, Viper.  What is the symbol that is on the caveman's shoulder?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on May 21, 2019, 04:15:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2019, 03:18:24 PM

I doesn't say "Immigration" it says "Open borders".  The US had Open borders in 1860 and the GOP did not see fit to change that. 

I told you that was one I could give you, but still I doubt that was in their platform, for the reason that Valmy mentions.

QuoteThey also were very much against taking away guns... from the rebels. 

I think virtually every government and political movement in history has been against rebels being continuing to be armed. By that standard the modern republican party is for taking away guns since presumably they don't want convicted murderers and active rebels to have them either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on May 21, 2019, 04:30:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2019, 03:19:06 PM



Uh, Viper.  What is the symbol that is on the caveman's shoulder?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence

Probably.  I'd guess to depict the Christian/evangelical angle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 21, 2019, 05:12:47 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/hZHwW18/1856-Republican-party-Fremont-isms-caricature.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8d2t548)

A political cartoon accusing the John C. Freemont of holding crazy positions.

Animal rights and restriction on Tobacco and Alcohol, Women voting, Socialism, free love, Catholicism and Equality for African Americans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 21, 2019, 05:19:03 PM
Funny thing, in spite of Fremont, Catholics were largely a Democrat constituency at the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 21, 2019, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 21, 2019, 05:19:03 PM
Funny thing, in spite of Fremont, Catholics were largely a Democrat constituency at the time.

Sure...but its complicated. The Democratic Party was certainly not pro-Catholic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2019, 11:51:22 PM
(https://external-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDlu41ZE0JrYzUh&w=540&h=282&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailysignal.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F160419_abortion-parts_FEATURE_v4.png&cfs=1&upscale=1&fallback=news_d_placeholder_publisher&_nc_hash=AQAewEvaBbzVElKB)

https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/04/20/in-the-market-for-fetal-body-parts-a-babys-brain-sells-for-3340/?fbclid=IwAR0B673VpElnH-rhvyJD-AF9qzn6343t5P3VJ4A67yNI7v-cEQGzD6_nbKk
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 21, 2019, 11:59:44 PM
So I could either have a car or a fetal brain? What can I do with a fetal brain?

And I mean if there was a black market for baby body parts I bet they could get them at a tiny fraction of that price. For many people around the world they could feed their family for years just by getting an abortion if those prices were true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 22, 2019, 12:03:49 AM
Medical research, I presume.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on May 22, 2019, 12:04:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 21, 2019, 11:59:44 PM
So I could either have a car or a fetal brain? What can I do with a fetal brain?


Teach English to Koreans?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2019, 12:05:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 22, 2019, 12:03:49 AM
Medical research, I presume.

What sort of medical research requires fetal brains? I mean stem cells I get...but a mass of dead brain tissue?

And what kind of research requires fetal limbs?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 22, 2019, 12:22:56 AM
This article explains a bit about the need for fetal cells, esp. brains. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/can-we-do-medical-research-without-fetal-tissue#How-fetal-tissue-helps

That said, are you doubting the impartial reporting of The Daily Signal? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2019, 12:26:01 AM
I mean surely in China alone there are millions of miscarriages and abortions and so forth every year. I just don't understand how the market for fetuses is such that they are many times their weight in gold. it is not like this is a hard commodity to get your hands on.

QuoteThat said, are you doubting the impartial reporting of The Daily Signal?

Yeah...I am...skeptical that baby body parts are really the great money making opportunity of the 21st century. The Russian Mafia would already be flooding the market if it was. It just doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 22, 2019, 07:49:57 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2019, 03:19:06 PM



Uh, Viper.  What is the symbol that is on the caveman's shoulder?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Dollarnote_siegel_hq.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 22, 2019, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: dps on May 22, 2019, 12:04:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 21, 2019, 11:59:44 PM
So I could either have a car or a fetal brain? What can I do with a fetal brain?


Teach English to Koreans?

:lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on May 22, 2019, 11:34:58 PM
The one place I can count on to find Languish unity:  Scipio's Facebook threads.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 22, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59471642_10219631940578792_4181937715412992000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c814beea5ccb5bb811d6907e6d96563e&oe=5D6A498C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on May 23, 2019, 12:00:09 AM
And to think that I thought that the only disease we had actually eradicated was smallpox.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 23, 2019, 12:13:33 AM
If they are eradicated how would people moving around bring them back?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 23, 2019, 01:43:16 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 22, 2019, 07:49:57 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2019, 03:19:06 PM



Uh, Viper.  What is the symbol that is on the caveman's shoulder?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Dollarnote_siegel_hq.jpg)


Okay, why is it so prominently shown on the guy's shoulder?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 23, 2019, 08:52:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 22, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59471642_10219631940578792_4181937715412992000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c814beea5ccb5bb811d6907e6d96563e&oe=5D6A498C)

If by immigrants they mean dumbass largely American antivaccers then they have a point
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 23, 2019, 09:31:08 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 23, 2019, 08:52:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 22, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59471642_10219631940578792_4181937715412992000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c814beea5ccb5bb811d6907e6d96563e&oe=5D6A498C)

If by immigrants they mean dumbass largely American antivaccers then they have a point

I must say this did not occur to me but seems completely natural and logical. I mean that if we do have a return of some epidemics thanks to the pro-epidemic movement (calling them anti-vaxxers is too kind and PC), it WILL absolutely be blamed on unwashed foreigners instead of domestic ignorance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 23, 2019, 09:47:43 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 23, 2019, 09:31:08 AM
I must say this did not occur to me but seems completely natural and logical. I mean that if we do have a return of some epidemics thanks to the pro-epidemic movement (calling them anti-vaxxers is too kind and PC), it WILL absolutely be blamed on unwashed foreigners instead of domestic ignorance.

Yep, it is scary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 23, 2019, 10:24:28 AM
Anti-vaccers aren't ignorant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 23, 2019, 11:59:43 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 23, 2019, 10:24:28 AM
Anti-vaccers aren't ignorant.

Stupid and ignorant aren't mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 23, 2019, 02:11:06 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 23, 2019, 11:59:43 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 23, 2019, 10:24:28 AM
Anti-vaccers aren't ignorant.

Stupid and ignorant aren't mutually exclusive.

They're evil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 23, 2019, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 23, 2019, 01:43:16 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 22, 2019, 07:49:57 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2019, 03:19:06 PM



Uh, Viper.  What is the symbol that is on the caveman's shoulder?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Dollarnote_siegel_hq.jpg)


Okay, why is it so prominently shown on the guy's shoulder?
www.ygreck.ca
that is the artists page.  You can ask him about his artistic choices. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 24, 2019, 01:12:21 AM
Do Quebecois have a hangup about Masons?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on May 24, 2019, 02:33:32 AM
I recently came across a quote from Jonathan Swift which is highly apposite to our times :

"Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired..."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on May 24, 2019, 07:43:22 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 24, 2019, 01:12:21 AM
Do Quebecois have a hangup about Masons?

Not really. Like viper, I have no real ideas why Ygrec chose to draw that on the Republican shoulders.

Are Masons Republicans usually?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2019, 09:30:31 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 24, 2019, 01:12:21 AM
Do Quebecois have a hangup about Masons?
Outside of conspiracy theorists, no, not that I'm aware of.

I didn't event noticed the symbol until Raz mentionned it.  Just the idea of cave man made me laugh :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 24, 2019, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 24, 2019, 01:12:21 AM
Do Quebecois have a hangup about Masons?

Nationalists often do.  It's a common feature among the extreme right in Europe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2019, 01:34:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 24, 2019, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 24, 2019, 01:12:21 AM
Do Quebecois have a hangup about Masons?

Nationalists often do.  It's a common feature among the extreme right in Europe.
You know nothing Raz Govory. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 24, 2019, 02:21:53 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 24, 2019, 01:34:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 24, 2019, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 24, 2019, 01:12:21 AM
Do Quebecois have a hangup about Masons?

Nationalists often do.  It's a common feature among the extreme right in Europe.
You know nothing Raz Govory. :)

Does this statement have a point?  And yeah, I looked at who that guy was after you posted the cartoon.  Apparently he's gotten trouble for racist cartoons.  The symbol was a big red flag that he might be a paranoid nationalist.  I haven't seen anything that dissuade me from that view and looking at his cartoons reinforces it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on May 24, 2019, 09:51:07 PM
You're reading way too much into it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2019, 01:19:15 AM
What's the right read?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 25, 2019, 07:31:39 AM
It's the all-seeing eye. It was used as a symbol of god long before the masons used it. It's prominently used on American money. It's referenced in handsmaid's tale. These would seem to make more sense than some weird conspiracy theory about masons that has no relation to context, and no echo in the population that would read these. Unless one wants to have a weird conspiracy theory about weird conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 25, 2019, 12:53:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2019, 01:19:15 AM
What's the right read?

The all-seeing eye of god is a pretty common concept in Christianity.  The dots above the eye look to me to make it look much more like the masonic eye (peering from beneath a cloud) than the Christian one (enclosed in a triangle), though.  On balance, I'd say this was most likely a dig on Freemasonry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 25, 2019, 03:38:55 PM
I've seen it used by Ben Garrison to represent the Federal Reserve.  Of course Ben Garrison is a paranoid nationalist and all around scumbag.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 25, 2019, 09:01:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 24, 2019, 02:21:53 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 24, 2019, 01:34:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 24, 2019, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 24, 2019, 01:12:21 AM
Do Quebecois have a hangup about Masons?

Nationalists often do.  It's a common feature among the extreme right in Europe.
You know nothing Raz Govory. :)

Does this statement have a point?  And yeah, I looked at who that guy was after you posted the cartoon.  Apparently he's gotten trouble for racist cartoons.  The symbol was a big red flag that he might be a paranoid nationalist.  I haven't seen anything that dissuade me from that view and looking at his cartoons reinforces it.
Like I said, you know not of what you speak. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 25, 2019, 09:45:42 PM
Yeah, you didn't exactly tell me what you meant by that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 28, 2019, 08:57:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 25, 2019, 09:45:42 PM
Yeah, you didn't exactly tell me what you meant by that.
Accusation of racism are pretty common from the left side of the political spectrum.  All you need to do, really, is displease them in the slightest manner.  I'm not too surprised a cartoonist or another is accused of racism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 28, 2019, 10:37:07 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 28, 2019, 08:57:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 25, 2019, 09:45:42 PM
Yeah, you didn't exactly tell me what you meant by that.
Accusation of racism are pretty common from the left side of the political spectrum.  All you need to do, really, is displease them in the slightest manner.  I'm not too surprised a cartoonist or another is accused of racism.

That's a non sequitur.  When I was talking about Masons I said "Nationalists often do.  It's a common feature among the extreme right in Europe."  And you responded with "You know nothing Raz Govory."  Which is to mean: "Accusation of racism are pretty common from the left side of the political spectrum.  All you need to do, really, is displease them in the slightest manner.  I'm not too surprised a cartoonist or another is accused of racism."

How does that make any goddamn sense?  Nobody had brought up race at that point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 29, 2019, 03:34:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 28, 2019, 10:37:07 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 28, 2019, 08:57:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 25, 2019, 09:45:42 PM
Yeah, you didn't exactly tell me what you meant by that.
Accusation of racism are pretty common from the left side of the political spectrum.  All you need to do, really, is displease them in the slightest manner.  I'm not too surprised a cartoonist or another is accused of racism.

That's a non sequitur.  When I was talking about Masons I said "Nationalists often do.  It's a common feature among the extreme right in Europe."  And you responded with "You know nothing Raz Govory."  Which is to mean: "Accusation of racism are pretty common from the left side of the political spectrum.  All you need to do, really, is displease them in the slightest manner.  I'm not too surprised a cartoonist or another is accused of racism."

How does that make any goddamn sense?  Nobody had brought up race at that point.
In my expeirence, Free Masons, Illuminatis, and other conspiracies are equally part of the fringe left and the fringe right, nationalists or anti-nationalists.

But whatever that might be the case in Europe, it has nothing to do with the drawing I posted, and I have seen no indication the author is a nationalist.  He draws funny pictures about current news event.

Given that this symbol appears in Handmaid's Tale, I now see the relevance of having it on the Alabama's cave man arm.  These laws have been widely described as akin to Handmaid's Tale's universe.  But I am not following that show, nor have I read the book, so I do not know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 29, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 29, 2019, 03:34:28 PM
These laws have been widely described as akin to Handmaid's Tale's universe.  But I am not following that show, nor have I read the book, so I do not know.

Well, let me tell you-- Trump's America is *exactly* like the Handmaid's Tale universe.  According to various FB posts I've seen, anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 29, 2019, 03:58:26 PM
Not quite.

I guess you still have some work to do. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 29, 2019, 04:17:55 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 29, 2019, 03:34:28 PM

In my expeirence, Free Masons, Illuminatis, and other conspiracies are equally part of the fringe left and the fringe right, nationalists or anti-nationalists.

But whatever that might be the case in Europe, it has nothing to do with the drawing I posted, and I have seen no indication the author is a nationalist.  He draws funny pictures about current news event.

Given that this symbol appears in Handmaid's Tale, I now see the relevance of having it on the Alabama's cave man arm.  These laws have been widely described as akin to Handmaid's Tale's universe.  But I am not following that show, nor have I read the book, so I do not know.

I'm going to guess you are in agreement in that your previous statement made absolutely no sense.  Please refrain from nonsensical statements in the future.


Uh, you're a Quebecois Nationalist.  The Parti Quebecois is a Nationalist party.  A more left wing nationalist, but a nationalist party.  The Cartoonist appears to be a supporter of that nationalist party.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 30, 2019, 11:59:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 29, 2019, 04:17:55 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 29, 2019, 03:34:28 PM

In my expeirence, Free Masons, Illuminatis, and other conspiracies are equally part of the fringe left and the fringe right, nationalists or anti-nationalists.

But whatever that might be the case in Europe, it has nothing to do with the drawing I posted, and I have seen no indication the author is a nationalist.  He draws funny pictures about current news event.

Given that this symbol appears in Handmaid's Tale, I now see the relevance of having it on the Alabama's cave man arm.  These laws have been widely described as akin to Handmaid's Tale's universe.  But I am not following that show, nor have I read the book, so I do not know.

I'm going to guess you are in agreement in that your previous statement made absolutely no sense.  Please refrain from nonsensical statements in the future.

Quote
Uh, you're a Quebecois Nationalist.  The Parti Quebecois is a Nationalist party.  A more left wing nationalist, but a nationalist party.  The Cartoonist appears to be a supporter of that nationalist party.
Really?  How do you get that last part? :)
And why is the Parti Québécois a thing in this? :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 31, 2019, 12:00:54 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 29, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 29, 2019, 03:34:28 PM
These laws have been widely described as akin to Handmaid's Tale's universe.  But I am not following that show, nor have I read the book, so I do not know.

Well, let me tell you-- Trump's America is *exactly* like the Handmaid's Tale universe.  According to various FB posts I've seen, anyway.
I do not believe that.  You need President Pence for that to happen. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 31, 2019, 04:04:08 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 30, 2019, 11:59:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 29, 2019, 04:17:55 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 29, 2019, 03:34:28 PM

In my expeirence, Free Masons, Illuminatis, and other conspiracies are equally part of the fringe left and the fringe right, nationalists or anti-nationalists.

But whatever that might be the case in Europe, it has nothing to do with the drawing I posted, and I have seen no indication the author is a nationalist.  He draws funny pictures about current news event.

Given that this symbol appears in Handmaid's Tale, I now see the relevance of having it on the Alabama's cave man arm.  These laws have been widely described as akin to Handmaid's Tale's universe.  But I am not following that show, nor have I read the book, so I do not know.

I'm going to guess you are in agreement in that your previous statement made absolutely no sense.  Please refrain from nonsensical statements in the future.

Quote
Uh, you're a Quebecois Nationalist.  The Parti Quebecois is a Nationalist party.  A more left wing nationalist, but a nationalist party.  The Cartoonist appears to be a supporter of that nationalist party.
Really?  How do you get that last part? :)
And why is the Parti Québécois a thing in this? :)



Cause I looked at his cartoons.  You did post a link to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 31, 2019, 09:27:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 31, 2019, 04:04:08 AM
Cause I looked at his cartoons.  You did post a link to them.

yes, but what makes you think he support the PQ or that he is a strong nationalist, in the negative aspect you confer to the word, like most anglo-saxons?  Specifically, how many of his drawings (around 200 per year) are pro-PQ, or nationist in that negative sense you confer?  And what more, what has it to do with that supposed conspiracy theory that he delibaretly applied a Free Mason symbol on the arm of his Alabama cave man to awoke the anti Free Mason conspiracies in his generally nationalist audience?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 31, 2019, 09:32:06 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 29, 2019, 04:17:55 PM

I'm going to guess you are in agreement in that your previous statement made absolutely no sense.  Please refrain from nonsensical statements in the future.


I don't agree with anything.  I posted an editorial cartoon, you implied there was a conspiracy theory hidden in it to awoke some kind of bad feeling in a population that would instantly recognize it.  I call this pure bullshit and imply you know not of what you speak.  Oex gave you details of the signification of the symbol, you rejected it and still believe the Quebecers looking at this drawing would instantly recognize a Free Masons symbol, part of some imaginary conspiracy living in the minds of all nationalists across the world.

I again call this bullshit and ask for proof, which you never supply.  But I'm the none making nonsensical statements?  Gee, you're a hard one to follow.   :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 31, 2019, 09:40:39 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 31, 2019, 09:27:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 31, 2019, 04:04:08 AM
Cause I looked at his cartoons.  You did post a link to them.

yes, but what makes you think he support the PQ or that he is a strong nationalist, in the negative aspect you confer to the word, like most anglo-saxons?  Specifically, how many of his drawings (around 200 per year) are pro-PQ, or nationist in that negative sense you confer?  And what more, what has it to do with that supposed conspiracy theory that he delibaretly applied a Free Mason symbol on the arm of his Alabama cave man to awoke the anti Free Mason conspiracies in his generally nationalist audience?


See, this is my fault.  When I asked you not to make nonsensical statements I left the door wide open for asking nonsensical questions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 31, 2019, 10:48:14 AM
Guys this got boring 3 pages ago. Just stop.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 31, 2019, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: Tamas on May 31, 2019, 10:48:14 AM
Guys this got boring 3 pages ago. Just stop.


I was done after he called me an "Anglo-Saxon".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 31, 2019, 03:14:26 PM
I cannot choose between Horsa and Hengist. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2019, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

It beats being a kraut.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 31, 2019, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2019, 03:14:26 PM
I cannot choose between Horsa and Hengist. :)

Just claim descent from Wotan.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 31, 2019, 03:33:30 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

I believe it is being used here in a cultural context, and not a blood lineage sense -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2019, 03:35:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2019, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

It beats being a kraut.

Not really, since Saxons are a variety of Krauts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 31, 2019, 03:54:33 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 31, 2019, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2019, 03:14:26 PM
I cannot choose between Horsa and Hengist. :)

Just claim descent from Wotan.  ;)

Be part of his Clan?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on May 31, 2019, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2019, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

It beats being a kraut.

Usually. Nowadays? Who knows.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 31, 2019, 05:55:45 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2019, 03:35:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2019, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

It beats being a kraut.

Not really, since Saxons are a variety of Krauts.

No. Those are the Sachsen. Totally different thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 31, 2019, 10:55:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 31, 2019, 03:33:30 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

I believe it is being used here in a cultural context, and not a blood lineage sense -_-
yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 01, 2019, 12:39:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 31, 2019, 03:33:30 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

I believe it is being used here in a cultural context, and not a blood lineage sense -_-

Yes, and has not been an accurate descriptor for a long time, if ever.  But it is a handy shorthand for people who want to simplify their target or give dubious credit for the origin some kind shared cultural understanding
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 01, 2019, 12:41:18 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 31, 2019, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2019, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

It beats being a kraut.

Usually. Nowadays? Who knows.

Don't feed the troll
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2019, 02:34:58 AM
https://www.dailywire.com/news/47888/bubonic-plague-likely-already-present-los-angeles-joseph-curl?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

QuoteBubonic Plague 'Likely' Already Present In Los Angeles, Dr. Drew Says

The city, with a population topping four million and a broader metropolitan area with many millions more, is awash in massive problems — overcrowding, lack of housing, and high demand for free services among them. But other far more serious problems are lurking, Dr. Drew Pinksy said on Thursday.

"We have a complete breakdown of the basic needs of civilization in Los Angeles right now," Pinsky told Fox New host Laura Ingraham. "We have the three prongs of airborne disease, tuberculosis is exploding, rodent-borne. We are one of the only cities in the country that doesn't have a rodent control program, and sanitation has broken down."

Pinsky said bubonic plague — also known as the "Black Death," a pandemic that killed off millions in the 14th century — is "likely" already present in Los Angeles. The plague is spread by infected fleas and exposure to bodily fluids from a dead plague-infected animal, with the bacteria entering through the skin and traveling to lymph nodes.

Typhus, which broke out in the city last year, will likely return, Pinsky said. Already, a Los Angeles police officer has contracted typhoid fever, which infects fewer than 350 Americans each year. The various types of typhus are caused by a bacterial infection and spread by body lice, chiggers or fleas. In the 1600s, the disease decimated Germany.

"This is unbelievable. I can't believe I live in a city where this is not Third World. This is medieval," Pinsky said, according to Fox News. "Third World countries are insulted if they are accused of being like this. No city on Earth tolerates this. The entire population is at risk."

Pinsky said the city simply can't handle the demand for services, noting that many homeless are mentally ill and don't want to accept housing.

"[T]he government is somehow insisting that housing is the problem when in fact we have chronic mental illness, we have addiction, we have people who don't want to leave the streets," Pinsky said. "They literally won't take the housing if we give it to them. And that's the population that's vulnerable, and is going to get so ill this summer. It scares me for their well-being."

The famed doctor also said California cities are suffering after allowing thousands of illegal aliens to flow in. He said the liberal politicians running most cities are "disgustingly negligent."

Homelessness is also exploding in San Francisco — the home district of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat.

"A federal count shows the number of homeless people increased by double-digit percentages in three San Francisco Bay Area counties over two years as the region struggled to tackle the growing problem, including 17% in San Francisco and 43% in the county that includes Oakland," the Associated Press reported.

Meanwhile, a new map compiled by the group Open the Books titled "2011-2019 San Francisco Human Waste Reportings" features a little pin (appropriately brown) showing where city residents have reported human feces. From the looks of the map, the entire city has been covered in poop.

"Since 2008, over 23,800 cases of human waste were reported in the heart of San Francisco. There were 13 reports of human feces in front of City Hall; 17 events at the U.S. Marshals office; and 67 reports at the Tenderloin police station on Eddy Street," Forbes reported.

Even the biggest companies that call San Francisco home have not been spared. "The largest concentration of complaints was in the area of Market St., where the headquarters of companies such as Twitter and Uber are located. Nearly a hundred markers also were clustered along the block that surrounds city hall," Fox said
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 01, 2019, 02:39:16 AM
QuoteSince 2008, over 23,800 cases of human waste were reported in the heart of San Francisco.

Dammit Forbes. They are human beings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on June 01, 2019, 02:50:15 AM
Reporting on the complete breakdown of civilization in Los Angeles = very slow news day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on June 01, 2019, 03:10:02 AM
I didn't realize Dr. Drew went full conspiracy Right Wing at some point.  I guess I overlooked or didn't see his Hillary health comments in 2016.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2019, 05:09:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 31, 2019, 05:55:45 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2019, 03:35:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2019, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

It beats being a kraut.

Not really, since Saxons are a variety of Krauts.

No. Those are the Sachsen. Totally different thing.

:lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on June 01, 2019, 07:33:05 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 01, 2019, 02:39:16 AM
QuoteSince 2008, over 23,800 cases of human waste were reported in the heart of San Francisco.

Dammit Forbes. They are human beings.

Nah, they're Californians. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 01, 2019, 12:25:59 PM
I don't get the Pelosi reference. She is not a city or county official.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2019, 12:26:44 PM
https://www.teaparty.org/breaking-ebola-concerns-in-texas-after-illegals-from-congo-cross-border-into-us-365296/

QuoteBreaking: Ebola Concerns In Texas After Illegals From Congo Cross Border Into US

(Gateway Pundit) – According to sources in Texas US Border Patrol Agents have apprehended illegal aliens crossing into the US from Congo.

There currently is a deadly Ebola outbreak in Congo.

According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention:

** Travelers to this area could be infected with Ebola if they come into contact with an infected person's blood or other body fluids.

** Travelers should seek medical care immediately if they develop fever, headache, body aches, sore throat, diarrhea, weakness, vomiting, stomach pain, rash, or red eyes during or after travel.

The UN was urged earlier this week to ramp up Ebola prevention work in the Democratic Republic of the Congo to the highest level of emergency response.

Brian Kolfage told The Gateway Pundit that the "We Build the Wall" organization was told of these developments earlier this week during their construction project near El Paso.


QuoteBrian Kolfage
@BrianKolfage

a DHS insider exposed to us Congo migrants have made it to the USA with confirmed cases of #ebola. 3 are in custody in Laredo Tx and 6 in Laredo Mexico, and in Juarez next to our wall @WeBuildtheWall is securing our nation! @RyanAFournier @gehrig38 @cnnbrk @CBSNews @NBCNews
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 01, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2019, 05:09:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 31, 2019, 05:55:45 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2019, 03:35:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2019, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

It beats being a kraut.

Not really, since Saxons are a variety of Krauts.

No. Those are the Sachsen. Totally different thing.

:lmfao:

Next I will explain how the Francais and Franken are also not identical
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 01, 2019, 12:29:11 PM
Problems in red states are not conservatives fault though.

Disease panic about immigrants. How old school.

California typically rates among the best in the country in terms of life expectancy and health statistics. Odd that wasn't mentioned in the article.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 03, 2019, 06:59:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 01, 2019, 05:09:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 31, 2019, 05:55:45 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 31, 2019, 03:35:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 31, 2019, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 31, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 31, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
That's a compliment.

Merely descriptive and only for someone who traces their lineage to an island off the coast of Europe.

It beats being a kraut.

Not really, since Saxons are a variety of Krauts.

No. Those are the Sachsen. Totally different thing.

:lmfao:

Next I will explain how the Francais and Franken are also not identical

I thought you would be starting by Franc and Français.
Plus "totally different thing" is different from "not identical".

Let us leave Al Franken out of this too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 03, 2019, 08:12:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Next I will explain how the Francais and Franken are also not identical

Does Frank Reich tie into this somehow?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 03, 2019, 08:18:50 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 03, 2019, 08:12:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Next I will explain how the Francais and Franken are also not identical

Does Frank Reich tie into this somehow?

No

It is neither Frank nor a Reich.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 03, 2019, 08:48:38 AM
Um sorry but I believe he's both.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 03, 2019, 08:54:17 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 03, 2019, 08:48:38 AM
Um sorry but I believe he's both.

Just ask the Houston Oilers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 03, 2019, 08:59:43 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 03, 2019, 08:12:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Next I will explain how the Francais and Franken are also not identical

Does Frank Reich tie into this somehow?

Quote from: Valmy on June 03, 2019, 08:18:50 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 03, 2019, 08:12:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Next I will explain how the Francais and Franken are also not identical

Does Frank Reich tie into this somehow?

No

It is neither Frank nor a Reich.

Actually yes, in part, sorry Valmy. You can still see the old title in some castles, in the Loire Valley for instance, Rex Francorum or King of the Franks.
But then Reich comes from an ancient indo-european root, possibly through keltic/gaulish rix.
Frank(en)Reich.

Of course, after the IX century AD, Frankish was no longer spoken in France, or Francia occidentalis, chiefly the Île-de-France region around Paris (possibly from Liddle Franke in Frankish).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 06, 2019, 04:31:41 PM
This was posted by my dad:



(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61899561_2442787332478932_4550563823441936384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmF20z03LCk3m8LjPGnHkZUCRhl0bLTj6D74LI-2T8SN2AzL068ujaMr5BgSOgMWYM&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=c6fb540ad604eb36ca67a2c6404a9755&oe=5D9E8658)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on June 07, 2019, 06:20:58 AM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8X0sDoXoAARj9y.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 07, 2019, 08:11:14 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 07, 2019, 08:41:46 AM
Why is berkuts one in here?
That's not a folly. It's a legitimate comment
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 08, 2019, 06:51:31 AM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62218071_10157548417256042_2633535901363339264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=5e58bb41ed449a21dbec70a3c8545d5f&oe=5D822BF8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 08, 2019, 03:17:54 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62012679_2346881955390586_5623864773343969280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0c3abc0d039486a1dc8ac2689b1b8e1d&oe=5D8D025F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 08, 2019, 03:21:25 PM
Have the loons really convinced themselves he is a Christian.  I thought the fundies believe he is the second coming of Cyrus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 08, 2019, 04:55:46 PM
He has been a notorious sleazebag for 30+ years but yeah I hate him because of his Christian virtues.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 08, 2019, 06:42:39 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 08, 2019, 03:17:54 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62012679_2346881955390586_5623864773343969280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0c3abc0d039486a1dc8ac2689b1b8e1d&oe=5D8D025F)


Zenophobe means someone who hates or is afraid of the god Zeus.  I don't think anyone has accused of him of that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on June 08, 2019, 07:40:31 PM
Well, that one got one thing right--he is white.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 08, 2019, 10:35:49 PM
dps, what do you think of my thesis that the Christian right is the one demographic who have most compromised their stated beliefs?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on June 09, 2019, 02:46:21 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 08, 2019, 10:35:49 PM
dps, what do you think of my thesis that the Christian right is the one demographic who have most compromised their stated beliefs?

I think it's more a matter of that they, as a group, have somehow deluded themselves that President Trump shares their beliefs, but as a practical matter, yes, I'd say your statement is largely accurate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 09, 2019, 03:31:56 AM
I think that "Christian" is becoming less of religious category and more of an ethnic one.  See "Cultural Christian".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 09, 2019, 07:58:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 08, 2019, 06:42:39 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 08, 2019, 03:17:54 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62012679_2346881955390586_5623864773343969280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0c3abc0d039486a1dc8ac2689b1b8e1d&oe=5D8D025F)


Zenophobe means someone who hates or is afraid of the god Zeus.  I don't think anyone has accused of him of that.

No love for Zeno, this is a sad paradox. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on June 09, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: dps on June 09, 2019, 02:46:21 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 08, 2019, 10:35:49 PM
dps, what do you think of my thesis that the Christian right is the one demographic who have most compromised their stated beliefs?

I think it's more a matter of that they, as a group, have somehow deluded themselves that President Trump shares their beliefs, but as a practical matter, yes, I'd say your statement is largely accurate.

I think the non-deluded ones basically feel that, yes Trump is a hypocrite and immoral person, but at least he's not going to target them or threaten their religious liberty by judicial appointments or other means in the way that they believe a Democratic president would do.

I imagine some of the ostensibly deluded ones also recognize this calculus at some level, but basically spew bulshit to try and convince themselves and others that they're not making this tradeoff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on June 09, 2019, 08:19:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 09, 2019, 03:31:56 AM
I think that "Christian" is becoming less of religious category and more of an ethnic one.  See "Cultural Christian".


There is no such thing as a Cultural Christian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 10, 2019, 06:16:20 AM
Quote from: dps on June 09, 2019, 08:19:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 09, 2019, 03:31:56 AM
I think that "Christian" is becoming less of religious category and more of an ethnic one.  See "Cultural Christian".


There is no such thing as a Cultural Christian.


Oh?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on June 10, 2019, 06:27:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 10, 2019, 06:16:20 AM
Quote from: dps on June 09, 2019, 08:19:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 09, 2019, 03:31:56 AM
I think that "Christian" is becoming less of religious category and more of an ethnic one.  See "Cultural Christian".


There is no such thing as a Cultural Christian.


Oh?

Indeed I've heard several people described themselves as culturally ..(a given religion) .

Don't one or two Languishites effectively describe that way with regard to being Jewish?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 10, 2019, 07:15:39 AM
Quote from: mongers on June 10, 2019, 06:27:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 10, 2019, 06:16:20 AM
Quote from: dps on June 09, 2019, 08:19:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 09, 2019, 03:31:56 AM
I think that "Christian" is becoming less of religious category and more of an ethnic one.  See "Cultural Christian".


There is no such thing as a Cultural Christian.


Oh?

Indeed I've heard several people described themselves as culturally ..(a given religion) .

Don't one or two Languishites effectively describe that way with regard to being Jewish?

I guess it already makes some sense and will increasingly do so all globalisation will (luckily) make people mingle on a global scale.

Culturally, my upbringing and the local culture I come from has a lot in common with other European local cultures, and the easiest to explain/express that is via the common roots in Christianity.

In a multicultural (in a global sense) environment, the cultural difference between somebody growing up in Germany or Hungary is neglibile compared to the difference between people from different world religion-dominated territories.

So, although I am very much an atheist, I'd be quite alright with being classified as culturally Christian, due to a lack of a better term.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 10, 2019, 07:49:35 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 09, 2019, 03:31:56 AM
I think that "Christian" is becoming less of religious category and more of an ethnic one.  See "Cultural Christian".


I think there may be something to that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 10, 2019, 08:46:02 AM
I think "culturally Western" works just as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 10, 2019, 09:16:27 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 10, 2019, 08:46:02 AM
I think "culturally Western" works just as well.

Perhaps a few decades ago
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 09:28:54 AM
Was western culture destroyed a few decades ago?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 10, 2019, 09:29:26 AM
Oh, what do you think changed?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 10, 2019, 10:48:38 AM
Well we do seem to be a bit of an impasse on which way western culture should go.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 10, 2019, 10:58:53 AM
We need to discuss "ethnic Hindu".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 10:59:20 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 10, 2019, 10:48:38 AM
Well we do seem to be a bit of an impasse on which way western culture should go.

I suppose. But I think we will be typically celebrating Christmas and typically have Sunday off work and other random Christian stuff associated with our culture for awhile. I mean the future may be uncertain but the cultural roots of the recent past are not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on June 10, 2019, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 10, 2019, 08:46:02 AM
I think "culturally Western" works just as well.

The problem with "culturally Christian" is that it isn't a synonym with "culturally western". First, there have long been non western Christians, but beyond that...Europeans haven't been universally defined by Christianity for centuries. There were significant atheistic/agnostic movements at a minimum as far back as the French Revolution. The socialist / communist movement has also been quite significant. Europe has been divided by Christians and non Christians, with the clear dividing line being at least lip service to Christianity. Robespierre and Marx were clearly European and western, but were opposed to christianity and i don't think can be meaningfully described as "culturally christian".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 11:46:18 AM
You don't have to like Christianity, and certainly not believe in or practice Christianity, to be culturally influenced by it. I think if you went and lived in some country that did not have that background, like Iran or Japan or something, you would notice the little things you take for granted that just aren't there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on June 10, 2019, 11:54:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 11:46:18 AM
You don't have to like Christianity, and certainly not believe in or practice Christianity, to be culturally influenced by it. I think if you went and lived in some country that did not have that background, like Iran or Japan or something, you would notice the little things you take for granted that just aren't there.

No doubt, but then the problem is you end up defining Stalin as culturally Christian which is more than a bit discordant when European would do (skipping the joke about Georgians and Russians not being European). And a corollary problem that someone like an Ethiopian christian may well be scoped out of a cultural Christian definition that is meaningful.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 10, 2019, 12:04:44 PM
I agree there is a cultural concept of Christianity, for example in the sense that America is a Christian nation for reasons having little to do with theology.  In the sense that "It's a Wonderful Life" is a Christian movie despite having very little to do with the Christian religion. But Trump doesn't qualify either on religious or cultural grounds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 10, 2019, 12:40:01 PM
To a lot of people, he does though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 10, 2019, 11:54:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 11:46:18 AM
You don't have to like Christianity, and certainly not believe in or practice Christianity, to be culturally influenced by it. I think if you went and lived in some country that did not have that background, like Iran or Japan or something, you would notice the little things you take for granted that just aren't there.

No doubt, but then the problem is you end up defining Stalin as culturally Christian which is more than a bit discordant when European would do (skipping the joke about Georgians and Russians not being European). And a corollary problem that someone like an Ethiopian christian may well be scoped out of a cultural Christian definition that is meaningful.

Those are only problems if you try to make some sort of Christianity = Western instead of just that Western Culture is a Christian influenced one generally, as things currently stand. There are other cultures that are Christian to.

As for Stalin he was in a seminary for awhile :hmm:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on June 10, 2019, 01:02:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 12:52:10 PM

Those are only problems if you try to make some sort of Christianity = Western instead of just that Western Culture is a Christian influenced one generally, as things currently stand. There are other cultures that are Christian to.


I realize this is arguable, but I don't think that the st. thomas christians or ethiopians have a culture that is relevant to define in a group with western countries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 10, 2019, 01:02:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 12:52:10 PM

Those are only problems if you try to make some sort of Christianity = Western instead of just that Western Culture is a Christian influenced one generally, as things currently stand. There are other cultures that are Christian to.


I realize this is arguable, but I don't think that the st. thomas christians or ethiopians have a culture that is relevant to define in a group with western countries.


I would agree. That would be very reductive.

I certainly do not claim to know enough about every single Christianity on the planet that I can start discussing what they may or may not have in common culturally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 10, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
When I say that "Christian" is becoming an ethnic category it doesn't really have much to do with actual Christianity or it's practitioners.  Latinos are generally not welcome despite being mostly christian and churches that offer the ancient christian tradition of sanctuary are met with extreme hostility.  The boundaries of this new category are still very fuzzy, but I think the most important factor is not being a Muslim.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on June 10, 2019, 02:55:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 10, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
When I say that "Christian" is becoming an ethnic category it doesn't really have much to do with actual Christianity or it's practitioners.  Latinos are generally not welcome despite being mostly christian and churches that offer the ancient christian tradition of sanctuary are met with extreme hostility.  The boundaries of this new category are still very fuzzy, but I think the most important factor is not being a Muslim.

Does islamophobia really need an ethnic classification?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 10, 2019, 03:09:03 PM
We really need to get over treating religions like ethnicities (though still recognizing that some religions/ethnicities tend to be homogenous), and more like what they are closer to...that being more akin to branches of philosophy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 10, 2019, 03:22:27 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 10, 2019, 12:40:01 PM
To a lot of people, he does though.

I can't speak to what those people are thinking, only that it removes all meaning from the concept to apply it to Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 10, 2019, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 10, 2019, 03:22:27 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 10, 2019, 12:40:01 PM
To a lot of people, he does though.

I can't speak to what those people are thinking, only that it removes all meaning from the concept to apply it to Trump.

Those people are thinking that they don't want to deal with the cognitive dissonance between what they wish Trump was and what he is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 10, 2019, 03:40:16 PM
They know he's no angel.  What they usually say is "Trump isn't perfect, but at least he's..." followed by something he's doing to piss off the cultural left.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 10, 2019, 03:41:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 10, 2019, 03:40:16 PM
They know he's no angel.  What they usually say is "Trump isn't perfect, but at least he's..." followed by something he's doing to piss off the cultural left.

Sorta like what people said about Stalin in WW2?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 10, 2019, 03:52:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 10, 2019, 03:40:16 PM
They know he's no angel.  What they usually say is "Trump isn't perfect, but at least he's..." followed by something he's doing to piss off the cultural left.

But that is essentially saying that "cultural Christianity" = "cultural right" or at least "not cultural left," which would drain all independent meaning of the phrase.

I do think that America can be said to be a Christian nation in a cultural sense that is distinct from the right-left political tribes. Things like symbolism or the way that people interact with strangers, or ways of expressing ideas or practicing or imaging community life.  Ideas and practices about charity, about family, and about expression of one's inner or spiritual life.  Even the way people talk and express themselves.  These Christianized ideas, values, concept, symbols cross over and through political life and partisan boundaries, even as they influence them to some extent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on June 10, 2019, 04:53:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 11:46:18 AM
You don't have to like Christianity, and certainly not believe in or practice Christianity, to be culturally influenced by it.

Sure, but would you identify yourself as "culturally Christian"?  I sure wouldn't;  I'd identify myself religiously as Christian, but culturally as American (and ethnically as either "white" or "Irish-American").
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 10, 2019, 05:29:58 PM
In my case, I would certainly not qualify as Christian in any religious sense, and no one in my family goes to church...but we would still get together on the typical Christian holidays (Xmas, Easter, etc.), and my family heritage definitely comes from there.  That may be what is meant by "culturally Christian".   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 10, 2019, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 10, 2019, 02:55:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 10, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
When I say that "Christian" is becoming an ethnic category it doesn't really have much to do with actual Christianity or it's practitioners.  Latinos are generally not welcome despite being mostly christian and churches that offer the ancient christian tradition of sanctuary are met with extreme hostility.  The boundaries of this new category are still very fuzzy, but I think the most important factor is not being a Muslim.

Does islamophobia really need an ethnic classification?

You wouldn't think so, but here we are.  As we move deeper into the mire of identity politics ethnicity, religion, and political beliefs are sort of merging.  Since we are talking about reactionaries in this case, they are defined more by what they oppose than what they support.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 10, 2019, 06:52:49 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 10, 2019, 02:55:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 10, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
When I say that "Christian" is becoming an ethnic category it doesn't really have much to do with actual Christianity or it's practitioners.  Latinos are generally not welcome despite being mostly christian and churches that offer the ancient christian tradition of sanctuary are met with extreme hostility.  The boundaries of this new category are still very fuzzy, but I think the most important factor is not being a Muslim.

Does islamophobia really need an ethnic classification?
Maybe not specifically an ethnic classification, but it's always helpful to have a euphemism of some kind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 10, 2019, 07:05:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2019, 09:28:54 AM
Was western culture destroyed a few decades ago?

:huh:

Why would western culture be destroyed if it is not synonymous with Christian culture?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 11:23:10 AM
(https://pics.me.me/icant-cope-with-lets-go-to-san-francisco-trump-boo-hoo-58010823.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 11, 2019, 11:39:14 AM
I don't get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 11, 2019, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2019, 11:39:14 AM
I don't get it.

I don't either.  Perhaps you have to like Liberal tears to understand it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 11, 2019, 11:41:04 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2019, 11:39:14 AM
I don't get it.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/a3xdae/more-people-pooping-in-san-francisco-than-ever-all-time-high-vgtrn

To be fair, it's not particularly funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 11, 2019, 12:53:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 11, 2019, 11:41:04 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2019, 11:39:14 AM
I don't get it.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/a3xdae/more-people-pooping-in-san-francisco-than-ever-all-time-high-vgtrn

To be fair, it's not particularly funny.

I still don't understand it. Are liberals supposed to be in favour of becoming homeless? Of preventing the homeless from using washrooms?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2019, 12:55:24 PM
There is currently a homelessness problem in the big cities in California. This is because they vote for Nancy Pelosi. Basically any and all problems that occur in California mean Conservatives are right about everything. There are no social problems of any kind in Republican voting states. NONE. ZERO. NOTHING TO LOOK AT HERE.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on June 11, 2019, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 11, 2019, 11:41:04 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2019, 11:39:14 AM
I don't get it.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/a3xdae/more-people-pooping-in-san-francisco-than-ever-all-time-high-vgtrn

To be fair, it's not particularly funny.

If you're going to San Francisco
Be sure to take some tissue with you there
If you are going to San Francisco
Summertime there'll be a poop-in there
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on June 11, 2019, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.

Not yet, it will probably the hot new trend from the west coast; like hackey-sack, taquerias and surf music.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 11, 2019, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.


Do you have sidewalks?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 11, 2019, 01:45:31 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 11, 2019, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.


Do you have sidewalks?
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:53:33 PM
Yes :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.

You could be like Austin and have scooters all over your sidewalks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 11, 2019, 02:39:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.

You could be like Austin and have scooters all over your sidewalks.

Do you have e-scooters accidents?

https://www.europe1.fr/faits-divers/information-europe-1-accident-mortel-de-trottinette-electrique-a-paris-3903997 (https://www.europe1.fr/faits-divers/information-europe-1-accident-mortel-de-trottinette-electrique-a-paris-3903997)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 02:40:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.

You could be like Austin and have scooters all over your sidewalks.

That's starting to happen here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on June 11, 2019, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 02:40:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.

You could be like Austin and have scooters all over your sidewalks.

That's starting to happen here.

You need more hobos shitting on the sidewalks, to deter the scooters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 11, 2019, 04:46:21 PM
Our hobos live out in the wooded areas by the river and the rail road.  I don't know where they are now, that whole area is underwater now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 11, 2019, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 11, 2019, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 02:40:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.

You could be like Austin and have scooters all over your sidewalks.

That's starting to happen here.

You need more hobos shitting on the sidewalks, to deter the scooters.

That won't work, they're rentals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 11, 2019, 04:59:00 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 11, 2019, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 11, 2019, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 02:40:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.

You could be like Austin and have scooters all over your sidewalks.

That's starting to happen here.

You need more hobos shitting on the sidewalks, to deter the scooters.

That won't work, they're rentals.

I don't know about you, but I'm not renting a scooter is the sidewalks are full of shit. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 11, 2019, 04:59:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 11, 2019, 04:55:40 PM
That won't work, they're rentals.

I'm not sure about that.  Scooters have pretty low ground clearance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 11, 2019, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 11, 2019, 04:59:00 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 11, 2019, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 11, 2019, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 02:40:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
At least we don't have poop all over the sidewalks here.

You could be like Austin and have scooters all over your sidewalks.

That's starting to happen here.

You need more hobos shitting on the sidewalks, to deter the scooters.

That won't work, they're rentals.

I don't know about you, but I'm not renting a scooter is the sidewalks are full of shit. :contract:

I'm not walking around either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 12, 2019, 05:36:22 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56242674_2623602381001475_4519114788705402880_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e4b8e5278aba50d5a9b3c98665a9cb37&oe=5D827EA3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on June 12, 2019, 06:37:26 AM
'Trouble is everyone's a broadcaster now, but no one's listening any more'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 12, 2019, 08:20:11 AM
I don't get it. Are we required to have posts full of photos of our presidents?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 12, 2019, 08:33:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2019, 08:20:11 AM
I don't get it. Are we required to have posts full of photos of our presidents?

Depends. R ya' a snowflake?!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 12, 2019, 08:34:46 AM
My President is & forever will be Obama. :cry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 12, 2019, 09:45:46 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 12, 2019, 08:34:46 AM
My President is & forever will be Obama. :cry:

I am still, and apparently will always be, the President of Languish OT (POLOT) until a new President is elected to replace me. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on June 12, 2019, 10:01:52 AM
We should hold elections again.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on June 12, 2019, 10:11:29 AM
We need a Trumpy candidate
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on June 12, 2019, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 12, 2019, 10:11:29 AM
We need a Trumpy candidate

JaronPinochet or FirebladeLePen?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2019, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 12, 2019, 08:34:46 AM
My President is & forever will be Obama. :cry:

When Quebec decided they loved George III more than the Continental Congress you lost your chance to have a President :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 12, 2019, 11:58:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2019, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 12, 2019, 08:34:46 AM
My President is & forever will be Obama. :cry:

When Quebec decided they loved George III more than the Continental Congress you lost your chance to have a President :contract:

It's your Congress fault for not saying they would guarantee Religious freedom!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2019, 12:00:24 PM
The religious freedom committee hadn't gotten there yet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 12, 2019, 01:17:51 PM
Eh, what can you do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 16, 2019, 11:46:03 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56862301_789322778116785_7188140906778722304_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=123ae5bf9a34a93508da4633b4635a0a&oe=5D828526)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 17, 2019, 12:02:49 AM
Funnier than most.

Last line kills the timing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 17, 2019, 01:51:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2019, 08:20:11 AM
Are we required to have posts full of photos of our presidents?
:worthy:   Yes, just like every true non snowflake Iraqui with balls had a picture of Saddam in his home, once upon a time. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 17, 2019, 06:20:08 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8pwrCeUIAAFFii.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 17, 2019, 04:55:13 PM
No representation for Ted Theodore Logan.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 19, 2019, 03:20:48 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64649808_1743050872465021_6432481581876641792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0f67dc6941257180ed68cbd4d2c67982&oe=5D89F152)

:wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 19, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
 ^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 19, 2019, 04:59:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 19, 2019, 03:20:48 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64649808_1743050872465021_6432481581876641792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0f67dc6941257180ed68cbd4d2c67982&oe=5D89F152)

:wacko:

I thought this was going to be an AOC endorsement
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 19, 2019, 09:46:41 PM
I mean even if Donald was doing a good job as President, he is taking over the job as CEO, of course he can get a lot more done than whatever job a Congressman or bureaucrat would be holding in this theoretical business I am working in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 19, 2019, 11:46:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 19, 2019, 09:46:41 PM
I mean even if Donald was doing a good job as President, he is taking over the job as CEO, of course he can get a lot more done than whatever job a Congressman or bureaucrat would be holding in this theoretical business I am working in.


The Trump Cult has some weird ideas of what they think he does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 20, 2019, 01:35:10 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 19, 2019, 11:46:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 19, 2019, 09:46:41 PM
I mean even if Donald was doing a good job as President, he is taking over the job as CEO, of course he can get a lot more done than whatever job a Congressman or bureaucrat would be holding in this theoretical business I am working in.


The Trump Cult has some weird ideas of what they think he does.
It makes it harder to be in the cult if you have an accurate idea of what he does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 20, 2019, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 19, 2019, 11:46:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 19, 2019, 09:46:41 PM
I mean even if Donald was doing a good job as President, he is taking over the job as CEO, of course he can get a lot more done than whatever job a Congressman or bureaucrat would be holding in this theoretical business I am working in.


The Trump Cult has some weird ideas of what they think he does.
think might be too strong a word.  It's more of a feeling, really.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 20, 2019, 10:58:12 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 19, 2019, 04:59:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 19, 2019, 03:20:48 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64649808_1743050872465021_6432481581876641792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0f67dc6941257180ed68cbd4d2c67982&oe=5D89F152)

:wacko:

I thought this was going to be an AOC endorsement

I knew it was supposed to be about Trump, but I thought the intimidated people were going to be old guys who drive around golf carts at Mar-a-lago.  I can see why they would be impressed by Trump's dedication to sitting on his ass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 28, 2019, 02:10:17 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/65190172_2482460358471624_5934192258017394688_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQnN6XVzVWQN1dOX2tp-JTpYR1Ko0MKoBkBx_sPHtgdA7RmsMsxTCr5ZP0omF5nct_8&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1890d0f82c70e9b0e63676a7b7c5cc23&oe=5DC4E903)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/65620217_124050395493504_8454441026784854016_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQn6HY4ZKQ1ae4kki3rFkibgeQSRbpyotBLHVonSVx5feLGb_60CpnXFD_tUJ5kDiPQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0e57d92f806a5748ffa89c4b968c66ba&oe=5DB52B95)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on June 28, 2019, 03:42:43 PM
So, that person (presumably your sister) is against Trump, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 28, 2019, 04:26:36 PM
Only when he's on a debate stage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 28, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 28, 2019, 03:42:43 PM
So, that person (presumably your sister) is against Trump, right?

You beat me to it
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on July 03, 2019, 04:58:19 PM
OMG:

Quote
Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp hit by photo glitch

3 hours ago

Some Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp users cannot upload photos, videos and files.
Facebook, which owns all three apps, said it was aware of the issue and was "working to get things back to normal as quickly as possible".

Share this with Facebook Share this with Messenger Share this with Twitter Share this with Email Share


:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 04, 2019, 11:12:35 AM
SHARE! SHARE! SHARE! SHARE! SHARE!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 06, 2019, 08:03:58 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36639098_2172334526350673_7780824184350834688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQnTbzMFWVezifuxhgTdCAKZNNjOoxWE3DSFAIhyBHAmXJCY-ppJB1f3uzOeKKBvXyM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0612526a908cac9c836aa1dada3f5905&oe=5DC0D9FF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on July 06, 2019, 08:22:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 06, 2019, 08:03:58 AM
Trump did not sign a law making it legal to execute, and imprison Americans.

He didn't need to;  the Constitution already allows that. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 06, 2019, 12:06:03 PM
I mean Trump did raise my taxes. I pay more under the new tax bill.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 06, 2019, 12:59:32 PM
Yeah, I stopped reading after the first statement because it was a lie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2019, 02:11:04 PM
Quote from: dps on July 06, 2019, 08:22:34 AM
He didn't need to;  the Constitution already allows that.

Only because Hillary and Obama changed the Constitution.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 07, 2019, 01:23:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66251037_2461719770544871_2814856913655693312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQn5tMWo5H8npeMHCN_Bu4Oq4W3sx6DwRCMMet9XhayUnh7Pnx0MKCotZHBlKaHoDp4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4364bb418ee11134e3605de8b703a6b2&oe=5D7E8776)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 07, 2019, 05:13:35 AM
What your sisters lack in discernment they make up for in perserverence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2019, 11:22:09 AM
The drama took place three years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on July 07, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
That Tillman dude does not seem like someone the right should embrace. Wiki states that he had a meeting with Chomsky planned for when he got home from his deployment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 07, 2019, 12:28:32 PM
He's dead, so he can't say anything to contradict their narrative.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on July 07, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2019, 11:22:09 AM
The drama took place three years ago.

Kaepernik has bubbled up again due to the Betsy Ross Flag Sneaker Controversy. (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/01/business/nike-air-max-1-quick-strike-fourth-of-july/index.html)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 07, 2019, 02:05:35 PM
Something else has to be given to Tillman, that's one hell of a square jaw. Action hero worthy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 08, 2019, 01:45:38 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/65764958_10214221971534545_5051821450739056640_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQm4oKfNoAgRtIpAs0fKxTSdubHsxf6fOGvo_Hoi-aBEmPov2y4sIdM7avQLhPNC3Hs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fa7b5d1fd645f4f07f524c7d75da26ad&oe=5DAB6F5B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 01:47:57 PM
 :lol:

Really?

Did a German really post that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 07, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2019, 11:22:09 AM
The drama took place three years ago.

Kaepernik has bubbled up again due to the Betsy Ross Flag Sneaker Controversy. (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/01/business/nike-air-max-1-quick-strike-fourth-of-july/index.html)



Huh. Well...um...I remain confused by what exactly he is hoping to accomplish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on July 08, 2019, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 01:47:57 PM
:lol:

Really?

Did a German really post that?

There's no equal to the Facebook follies of Syt's family.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 08, 2019, 02:03:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 01:47:57 PM
:lol:

Really?

Did a German really post that?

She's USian, technically. She hasn't been to Germany since '88 or '89.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 02:06:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 08, 2019, 02:03:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 01:47:57 PM
:lol:

Really?

Did a German really post that?

She's USian, technically. She hasn't been to Germany since '88 or '89.

Oh good. That makes it better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2019, 02:49:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 07, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2019, 11:22:09 AM
The drama took place three years ago.

Kaepernik has bubbled up again due to the Betsy Ross Flag Sneaker Controversy. (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/01/business/nike-air-max-1-quick-strike-fourth-of-july/index.html)



Huh. Well...um...I remain confused by what exactly he is hoping to accomplish.

Yep.

Betsy Ross was from a Quaker family, presumably anti-slavery.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2019, 02:50:19 PM
Arguably it's disrespectful to put the flag on shoes or any piece of clothing for that matter but apparently the Trumpy types like that sort of stuff now so it's "OK"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2019, 02:50:19 PM
Arguably it's disrespectful to put the flag on shoes or any piece of clothing for that matter but apparently the Trumpy types like that sort of stuff now so it's "OK"

Huh? We wear our flag on our clothes all the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 08, 2019, 02:57:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2019, 02:50:19 PM
Arguably it's disrespectful to put the flag on shoes or any piece of clothing for that matter but apparently the Trumpy types like that sort of stuff now so it's "OK"

Huh? We wear our flag on our clothes all the time.

Yours is a sophisticated family.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 08, 2019, 03:41:46 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2019, 02:49:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 07, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2019, 11:22:09 AM
The drama took place three years ago.

Kaepernik has bubbled up again due to the Betsy Ross Flag Sneaker Controversy. (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/01/business/nike-air-max-1-quick-strike-fourth-of-july/index.html)



Huh. Well...um...I remain confused by what exactly he is hoping to accomplish.

Yep.

Betsy Ross was from a Quaker family, presumably anti-slavery.

I thought the whole "Betsy Ross sewed the first flag" was a piece of mythmaking with no support in the historical record?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2019, 04:43:27 PM
Don't make us invade Canada again, BB.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2019, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Huh? We wear our flag on our clothes all the time.

I couldn't care less but I never understood the argument that it's disrespect not to pledge to the flag but perfectly ok to display the flag on one's ass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 08, 2019, 05:35:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2019, 02:50:19 PM
Arguably it's disrespectful to put the flag on shoes or any piece of clothing for that matter but apparently the Trumpy types like that sort of stuff now so it's "OK"

Huh? We wear our flag on our clothes all the time.

We pretty much ignore the almost-entirely-unknown US Flag Code (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code).

And that is probably ok, as its history of law is pretty dubious.  It is only really adhered to by know-it-all patriots or dedicated public servants like myself.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on July 12, 2019, 03:20:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 07, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2019, 11:22:09 AM
The drama took place three years ago.

Kaepernik has bubbled up again due to the Betsy Ross Flag Sneaker Controversy. (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/01/business/nike-air-max-1-quick-strike-fourth-of-july/index.html)

Huh. Well...um...I remain confused by what exactly he is hoping to accomplish.

I've read a couple different things; either he objects to the slavery that existed in the colonies during the Revolutionary period or that the Betsy Ross Flag has been used by some hate groups.  (No law enforcement agencies seem to be aware of the Betsy Ross Flag being used by hate groups; and even the ADL, who has kept us abreast of the danger of Pepe the Frog, doesn't list the Betsy Ross Flag as a hate symbol.)

I find the Nike consumer puzzling in all of this.  Nike doesn't sell sneakers so much as it sells an image; what marketers call a "Brand."  In the past Nike was the brand of champions; their pitchmen were people who were phenomenal in their sport (Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, or Serena Williams.)  Those stars have aged and they haven't been able to find replacements.  By signing Colin Kaepernik has changed their brand to social consciousness.  Their motto now is: "Believe in something even if it costs you everything."  My problem with this is that Nike isn't a socially conscious manufacturer.  They still make their sneakers in third world sweatshop for starvation wages.  Their subcontractors still withhold wages and use forced labor.  Who is so "Woke" that they object to the Betsy Ross Flag, but are untroubled by Nike's labor practices?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 12, 2019, 05:06:55 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 12, 2019, 03:20:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 08, 2019, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 07, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2019, 11:22:09 AM
The drama took place three years ago.

Kaepernik has bubbled up again due to the Betsy Ross Flag Sneaker Controversy. (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/01/business/nike-air-max-1-quick-strike-fourth-of-july/index.html)

Huh. Well...um...I remain confused by what exactly he is hoping to accomplish.

I've read a couple different things; either he objects to the slavery that existed in the colonies during the Revolutionary period or that the Betsy Ross Flag has been used by some hate groups.  (No law enforcement agencies seem to be aware of the Betsy Ross Flag being used by hate groups; and even the ADL, who has kept us abreast of the danger of Pepe the Frog, doesn't list the Betsy Ross Flag as a hate symbol.)

I find the Nike consumer puzzling in all of this.  Nike doesn't sell sneakers so much as it sells an image; what marketers call a "Brand."  In the past Nike was the brand of champions; their pitchmen were people who were phenomenal in their sport (Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, or Serena Williams.)  Those stars have aged and they haven't been able to find replacements.  By signing Colin Kaepernik has changed their brand to social consciousness.  Their motto now is: "Believe in something even if it costs you everything."  My problem with this is that Nike isn't a socially conscious manufacturer.  They still make their sneakers in third world sweatshop for starvation wages.  Their subcontractors still withhold wages and use forced labor.  Who is so "Woke" that they object to the Betsy Ross Flag, but are untroubled by Nike's labor practices?

:face:  :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 12, 2019, 06:03:47 PM
Someone on my twitter feed reposted this Clinton speech from 2000.

QuoteNow there's no question China has been trying to crack down on the Internet. (Chuckles.) Good luck! (Laughter.) That's sort of like trying to nail jello to the wall. (Laughter.) But I would argue to you that their effort to do that just proves how real these changes are and how much they threaten the status quo. It's not an argument for slowing down the effort to bring China into the world, it's an argument for accelerating that effort. In the knowledge economy, economic innovation and political empowerment, whether anyone likes it or not, will inevitably go hand in hand.

https://www.iatp.org/sites/default/files/Full_Text_of_Clintons_Speech_on_China_Trade_Bi.htm

Chuckles indeed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 14, 2019, 03:22:25 AM
Did we have this one before?

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66344302_2321533821264930_926881249878867968_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQlzJHGpez9l0mwJHMfo-9Qad8I_VzPJeVU-Aq8J5Sf07dejBjZ13YKNnhM4GEmRjL4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fab8ab2fa1be50a5fb6f70452d92f71f&oe=5DB275F5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 16, 2019, 10:40:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37243150_2032990913386606_1226858881276182528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQmYPDdIKr0mVxurF2U-lf9APC8WDRGeLLg4iconwblWjuDeMMVj3o-XTXR3W7CzAro&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=66c9832632ba73c25b2ffd9f882992c1&oe=5DEC02B9)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10322821_10152129185246700_3410531788671727258_n.png?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQm8CtCD5iTMw0YQCGdkbsGuj4Nhzej6DinEaJcPd_YGh7u8tlvI_IxxnVl4U11LBHk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8e9c06ea5c163c194a22aedf45bf66fa&oe=5DA78F01)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 16, 2019, 10:41:18 AM
But that's not racist either, I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 16, 2019, 11:53:08 AM
I wonder what the overlap between comparing humans to wild animals, being pro-life because even unborn human life is precious and not believing in evolution and holding humans to be special compared to animals is. I begin to suspect that's Syt's wider family may not have a coherent view of the world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 16, 2019, 12:10:12 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 16, 2019, 11:53:08 AM
I begin to suspect that's Syt's wider family may not have a coherent view of the world.

:o

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 16, 2019, 02:50:26 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 16, 2019, 11:53:08 AM
I begin to suspect that's Syt's wider family may not have a coherent view of the world.
it's a shock to most of us here.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 17, 2019, 08:41:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/65123753_2294566297303621_8921006803072843776_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQnkNfd8NJ2QrxhEr7fHLTvM5HzCZ_PKwNIflWDt_p1BSik6ni9VRSbdZr9tnfYzaLg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6bb51ff6450e0828a48e7a6988343cce&oe=5DA4E4F2)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67250754_10216791429235688_391578937244778496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQmlpL5s-V98BHvM0UtTBVnm0z2wT8q22xXbIT4Wa4TPY0sn_BZOzsG5TMnybp_OyeQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b9fa611465e391298483ee946bdd2844&oe=5DAA1E7B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on July 17, 2019, 08:46:49 AM
Why quote the words of each side when you can just lie about what they said?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 17, 2019, 09:40:41 AM
Hey he was the one who said America was no longer great.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 18, 2019, 12:04:30 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67328761_2360304264243962_5400154972165767168_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQlM0OmZ2drIEMnnSczyr8I9f3nOPgFqrIiz9PeBduBW8wx08HA98m4GVVn2rSE7LtI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=feb4a4ab4ce9930ae0b25f0279d5ee1b&oe=5DB7A968)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67174346_10218815737094789_8625104906660872192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQm8vIsUTXG8Phzb89yRWmqQoIcQKlqz8VWeikk5ixSVXZ85CSh47wQ8-N7OZHFYMXw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=07cc967c458f688558cf4e7ab158a2be&oe=5DAE20B2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 18, 2019, 12:10:44 PM
You gonna say something them now, Syt. right? Because mischaracterizing military operations is not allowed, anywhere.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 20, 2019, 06:03:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66454881_2322962421126743_4027333684624359424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQkzDah4SbUVkE4e_z4Of4nvdWUSfca1Z2UMj6QgEowYLwwZ8GhdfH1jRMVUQE8slEw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5ec951522ce3724ad9491ec139d72bc4&oe=5DA8B6EB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2019, 12:19:19 PM
Deserving has nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 20, 2019, 01:10:33 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67258360_2961783350713919_6495318422295937024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQl_72bQU-8dpWdFFAxN7fUqcEJJBywwz2cLaeaijO_voQlNpqM411G99VHPovuh-hY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a845d95a582e1965a42f06c5fb4ba2d0&oe=5DEAAAF0)

:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 20, 2019, 01:35:54 PM
They can read right?
They saw it said racist not bi-racial?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2019, 01:41:51 PM
No during the Obama Presidency there was all sorts of propaganda about how he was the most racist President in American history. Freaking James K Polk, who was a slave trader, had nothing on Obama.

I guess Syt's family believed all that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2019, 02:14:53 PM
Syntactically problematic.  Tenses don't agree and the response doesn't answer the question.

"Happy with a racist president?"

"No, that's why we elected Trump!"

So much better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 20, 2019, 03:01:35 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2019, 02:14:53 PM
Syntactically problematic.  Tenses don't agree and the response doesn't answer the question.

"Happy with a racist president?"

"No, that's why we elected Trump!"

So much better.

Usually these views and literacy don't go hand in hand. Derspiess is a rare exception.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2019, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 20, 2019, 03:01:35 PM
Usually these views and literacy don't go hand in hand. Derspiess is a rare exception.

That Missouri senator speech about evil Soros globalists was quite well written. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 20, 2019, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2019, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 20, 2019, 03:01:35 PM
Usually these views and literacy don't go hand in hand. Derspiess is a rare exception.

That Missouri senator speech about evil Soros globalists was quite well written. :)

Yes. He's Stanford/Yale, vetted/housetrained by the Federalist Society. I am sure he'll go far.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on July 20, 2019, 09:08:53 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 18, 2019, 12:10:44 PM
Because mischaracterizing military operations is not allowed, anywhere.

Well, only in places that allow free speech.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2019, 01:44:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66084388_893205927720658_3294520626504531968_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQlql7AbU56FcQJz3l9g7WuaxkJ1hguhnTHlYcnLqV8u7CD9arMztCEsrq3oerTzljs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1d4140a554648519b518cdfd91b7a46e&oe=5DAE671A)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66454302_1074630599413581_1557708235085971456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlCJwF_ndLUWyODQHnto51YA3HxrhxHif3ljgAnUOPAQnwXZrHFy9w028xbHOzKr2w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2db5d616e4e7231749adfcb3dba6502b&oe=5DEBCC86)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 21, 2019, 01:58:38 AM
I have no idea what the hell your family is even posting about most of the time. What are these people being disrespectful, hateful, and anti-American about? Am I supposed to be inspired by your respectfulness? Whatever that means?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 21, 2019, 03:35:02 AM
Saftey?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2019, 03:54:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 21, 2019, 01:58:38 AM
I have no idea what the hell your family is even posting about most of the time. What are these people being disrespectful, hateful, and anti-American about? Am I supposed to be inspired by your respectfulness? Whatever that means?
Something something communism?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2019, 07:56:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66631168_2361272404160700_1301574458774913024_n.png?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQk9EJ9QsiynoLGeDS42hMDVewlKSUYYpFdU64JzHFypaEL7HlG_iYS2CjyZtB-6y00&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cafe42d75769221d40843e24b4049d83&oe=5DB61A7A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Legbiter on July 21, 2019, 11:13:36 AM
Is your sister a bit older than you Syt?  :hmm:

Her overall style of memes is what my parents' generation inflicts on everyone on Facebook.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 21, 2019, 11:21:33 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on July 21, 2019, 11:13:36 AM
Is your sister a bit older than you Syt?  :hmm:

Her overall style of memes is what my parents' generation inflicts on everyone on Facebook.

Apparently Facebook is in general an old people's home. Young folks don't care for it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2019, 11:48:45 AM
They were born in the early 60s. Their posts line up pretty well with some Facebook parody groups about boomers. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2019, 12:28:16 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 20, 2019, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2019, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 20, 2019, 03:01:35 PM
Usually these views and literacy don't go hand in hand. Derspiess is a rare exception.

That Missouri senator speech about evil Soros globalists was quite well written. :)

Yes. He's Stanford/Yale, vetted/housetrained by the Federalist Society. I am sure he'll go far.


Well, the vetted candidate we had previously turned out be a Psychopath.  Blackmailed his mistress, threatened other legislators with guns, stole from his own charity, repelled from the ceiling in a rodeo, you know, standard stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 21, 2019, 01:08:41 PM
As I said, Yale.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 21, 2019, 01:11:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2019, 12:28:16 PM

Well, the vetted candidate we had previously turned out be a Psychopath.  Blackmailed his mistress, threatened other legislators with guns, stole from his own charity, repelled from the ceiling in a rodeo, you know, standard stuff.

The underlined part ... must know more.   :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2019, 02:12:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 21, 2019, 01:11:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 21, 2019, 12:28:16 PM

Well, the vetted candidate we had previously turned out be a Psychopath.  Blackmailed his mistress, threatened other legislators with guns, stole from his own charity, repelled from the ceiling in a rodeo, you know, standard stuff.

The underlined part ... must know more.   :lol:


https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article172655221.html/video-embed (https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article172655221.html/video-embed)


After he resigned from office he rejoined the navy.  He can't get combat deployment because, well, he's a Psychopath and the military frowns on that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Legbiter on July 21, 2019, 02:37:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 21, 2019, 11:48:45 AM
They were born in the early 60s. Their posts line up pretty well with some Facebook parody groups about boomers. :P

Yes exactly, you're right they're cringey boomermemes. The ones I see in Icelandic even have the same eyesight-friendly fonts, essay-length texts and other too on the nose boomerisms.  :lol:  :glare:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 21, 2019, 04:01:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 21, 2019, 07:56:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66631168_2361272404160700_1301574458774913024_n.png?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQk9EJ9QsiynoLGeDS42hMDVewlKSUYYpFdU64JzHFypaEL7HlG_iYS2CjyZtB-6y00&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cafe42d75769221d40843e24b4049d83&oe=5DB61A7A)

The normal types of controversies that most normal administrations have? Though I guess I am not entirely familiar with what many of those refer to because I suspect they are products of propaganda.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2019, 04:07:39 PM
I guess cash to Iran refers to the part of the treaty (or was it a memorandum of understanding) whereby the US unfroze a couple billion in Iranian cash.  Spygate I guess is talking about that Rooskie hottie who got busted.  Did that one make the Obama administration look bad in any way?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2019, 04:40:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2019, 04:07:39 PM
I guess cash to Iran refers to the part of the treaty (or was it a memorandum of understanding) whereby the US unfroze a couple billion in Iranian cash.  Spygate I guess is talking about that Rooskie hottie who got busted.  Did that one make the Obama administration look bad in any way?


No, it refers to the belief that Obama was spying on Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2019, 04:46:20 PM
If you're that sure I guess it's all settled.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 21, 2019, 05:29:59 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2019, 04:46:20 PM
If you're that sure I guess it's all settled.
The "Spygate" I know about was the deal with the NE Patriots.  I suppose some republican loons believe Trump's allegations of Obama Admin spying, and call that "Spygate" as well.

Wasn't there another "Spygate" when a Cheney staffer outed a CIA agent and went to jail for it?  That's probably not what the loony Right is referring to, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 21, 2019, 05:51:37 PM
Also why is Sam Elliot there? WTF does that have to do with anything? This is not the first time Syt's relatives have used nonsensical and sometimes blatantly wrongly used cultural references. I know most memes are cringingly unfunny and stupid but they usually at least attempt to be clever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2019, 05:55:30 PM
I don't think the war brides are the ones publishing these things.   :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 21, 2019, 05:58:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 21, 2019, 05:51:37 PM
Also why is Sam Elliot there? WTF does that have to do with anything? This is not the first time Syt's relatives have used nonsensical and sometimes blatantly wrongly used cultural references. I know most memes are cringingly unfunny and stupid but they usually at least attempt to be clever.

Because he's the sort of fictional figure with which white supremacists identify: rugged, gruff, associated with country, western, military, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 21, 2019, 08:36:58 PM
Now, now. Playing "I know you are but what am I?" doesn't make somebody a white supremacist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2019, 11:11:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2019, 04:46:20 PM
If you're that sure I guess it's all settled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spygate_(conspiracy_theory) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spygate_(conspiracy_theory))

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2019, 03:49:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67184683_2354662861417356_3783975842586034176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQm4NG63IQtRcPomQWDpQKwzOUta5F_hTn97DCmb9hIkziCFAq8_nLDVJVr4URFX5XM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=47fe23c39b3794e0098878d8424f0746&oe=5DA315AD)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61422021_857226464638294_4344196108067536896_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQlSSZlBCXw1WDkje2TQV__5FAhjcdd8LP_I1uxYt-7g42vgDbAw4AaTxZxQJC6KqfM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2a696b1b407d05d832e55eaafc5d2cfa&oe=5DA2589A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on July 22, 2019, 04:12:54 AM
What?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2019, 04:29:44 AM
Quote from: Liep on July 22, 2019, 04:12:54 AM
What?

Are you telling me you never stumble and fall across Muslims who are praying in the middle of the street? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 22, 2019, 05:10:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 22, 2019, 04:29:44 AM
Quote from: Liep on July 22, 2019, 04:12:54 AM
What?

Are you telling me you never stumble and fall across Muslims who are praying in the middle of the street? :P

:secret:

Try rue Myrrha in Paris. Not far from the Sacré Cœur.  :P
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/world/europe/paris-begins-enforcing-ban-on-street-prayer.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/world/europe/paris-begins-enforcing-ban-on-street-prayer.html)
Ban is selectively enforced, we shall say.

OTOH, sorry for Putin fan boys, but street prayer/namaz happens in Moscow too near the Mosque by Prospekt Mira station (Peace Avenue seems really fitting for the religion of peace).  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 07:38:38 AM
We are supposed to silence our church bells and cover crosses so Muslims do not get offended?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 07:50:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 22, 2019, 03:49:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67184683_2354662861417356_3783975842586034176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQm4NG63IQtRcPomQWDpQKwzOUta5F_hTn97DCmb9hIkziCFAq8_nLDVJVr4URFX5XM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=47fe23c39b3794e0098878d8424f0746&oe=5DA315AD)

Many Mexican-Americans did vote for Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2019, 09:41:49 AM
I doubt Sam Elliot is a big Donald Trump fan.

I do like the last one (above) - finally gets to what all this immigrant demonization is really about - electoral politics.

Pro tip: if you want to get more votes out of a demo, try to refrain from calling their men "rapists"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 22, 2019, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2019, 09:41:49 AM
I doubt Sam Elliot is a big Donald Trump fan.

Maybe not, but he plays pretty much precisely that role in the cringy Netflix sitcom with Ashton Kutcher.  Even without that, I can kind of see why they use him for those memes.  A gruff, old, mustachioed no-BS persona is the perfect delivery vehicle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 22, 2019, 10:15:17 AM
Plus he's the voice of Pickup trucks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 22, 2019, 11:28:22 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2019, 09:41:49 AM
I doubt Sam Elliot is a big Donald Trump fan.

I do like the last one (above) - finally gets to what all this immigrant demonization is really about - electoral politics.

Pro tip: if you want to get more votes out of a demo, try to refrain from calling their men "rapists"

Something I noticed is that the Right has shifted from illegal immigrants, to just immigrants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2019, 11:31:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67259576_642095169642621_1186862994764595200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQlkn13G4tOlUj4AAooOnJed-xVJynHwsu73w2kyX2l_MbaynCJtn3-KcYWi836jjiE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=468e4cbb9919d3c8474f26ab733a2816&oe=5DECFD6C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 22, 2019, 11:34:04 AM
And what are they doing to help either group?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 11:36:26 AM
Strikes me as a non-sequitur.

"Thousands of people get killed every year in car accidents..and you are clipping your toenails?????"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2019, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 22, 2019, 11:34:04 AM
And what are they doing to help either group?

Hope and prayers? After all, can't give handouts to those lazy freeloaders. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 11:44:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 22, 2019, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 22, 2019, 11:34:04 AM
And what are they doing to help either group?

Hope and prayers? After all, can't give handouts to those lazy freeloaders. :P

Pass a law making it illegal to sleep on the street. BOOM. No more Americans on the street.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 22, 2019, 11:45:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 22, 2019, 11:31:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67259576_642095169642621_1186862994764595200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQlkn13G4tOlUj4AAooOnJed-xVJynHwsu73w2kyX2l_MbaynCJtn3-KcYWi836jjiE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=468e4cbb9919d3c8474f26ab733a2816&oe=5DECFD6C)

But didn't they post the thing about not feeding the "animals' a few days ago?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 22, 2019, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 22, 2019, 11:28:22 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2019, 09:41:49 AM
I doubt Sam Elliot is a big Donald Trump fan.

I do like the last one (above) - finally gets to what all this immigrant demonization is really about - electoral politics.

Pro tip: if you want to get more votes out of a demo, try to refrain from calling their men "rapists"

Something I noticed is that the Right has shifted from illegal immigrants, to just immigrants.

Both extremes seem to be muddying the distinction, and it's annoying. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on July 22, 2019, 11:49:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 11:44:25 AM
Pass a law making it illegal to sleep on the street. BOOM. No more Americans on the street.

Make it a felony with a nice long prison sentence.  Imprisoning people is way more cost effective than welfare or other socialist claptrap, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2019, 11:48:17 AM
Both extremes seem to be muddying the distinction, and it's annoying. 

I think it is because a significant portion of people are concerned with immigration being good vs immigration being bad in general and that is really their issue. So they don't want to get hung up on the legality of each specific case.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 22, 2019, 12:17:12 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 21, 2019, 08:36:58 PM
Now, now. Playing "I know you are but what am I?" doesn't make somebody a white supremacist.

These conservative memes, taken in their totality, have almost zero political/ideological coherence, except whiteness. The figures used to represent the voice of reason, the stance of the person who shares, the über-Americaness, the face of patriotism, all reinforce the idea that the real America is white, usually male (unless placed in a position of vulnerability, like the white, blonde mother, or the white, injured vet) - against the entitled, the whiners, the lazy. How many people of color on FoxNews again?  The people sharing the memes may not start with a coherent ideology of white supremacy, but they certainly imbibe it, share it, and strengthen it with every new meme shared, and every new viewing of Fox and Friends. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 22, 2019, 12:18:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 22, 2019, 11:45:05 AMBut didn't they post the thing about not feeding the "animals' a few days ago?

Only white people can be down on their luck. Others are just violent criminals or are mooching off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 22, 2019, 01:03:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2019, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 22, 2019, 11:28:22 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2019, 09:41:49 AM
I doubt Sam Elliot is a big Donald Trump fan.

I do like the last one (above) - finally gets to what all this immigrant demonization is really about - electoral politics.

Pro tip: if you want to get more votes out of a demo, try to refrain from calling their men "rapists"

Something I noticed is that the Right has shifted from illegal immigrants, to just immigrants.

Both extremes seem to be muddying the distinction, and it's annoying.


Extremes?  This has become the standard issue of the American Right.  It's what the President wants, and frankly, it's what Republicans have wanted for years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2019, 02:20:44 PM
No there used to be a pro-immigration wing in the Republican party, just like the party used to be staunchly pro-free trade.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 22, 2019, 02:32:27 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2019, 02:20:44 PM
No there used to be a pro-immigration wing in the Republican party, just like the party used to be staunchly pro-free trade.

When is the last time we heard a squeak from that pro-immigration wing? It's starting to be quite some years, I reckon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 22, 2019, 02:32:49 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2019, 02:20:44 PM
No there used to be a pro-immigration wing in the Republican party, just like the party used to be staunchly pro-free trade.

It also used to be staunchly anti slavery and pro minority voting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2019, 03:23:01 PM
Check out the yea votes here: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00157
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2019, 03:42:37 PM
Quote100 Percent FED Up
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Democrat State Rep. Erica Thomas encountered an angry Democrat while breaking the rules at her local Publix store, as she exceeded the limit of 10 items at the express aisle while shopping with her 9-year-old daughter. Thomas' excuse for breaking the rules was that she's nine months pregnant.
When Erica got home, she made an emotional Facebook video to reveal her experience with the racist "white man" who was using his "white privilege" to bully her. The Georgia State Representative claimed that during their confrontation, the white man told her to "go back to where you came from." Thomas was clearly attempting to tie his alleged insult to President Trump, who recently used the same line when discussing the four anti-American freshmen congresswomen.

Erica Thomas got a big surprise when she went back to Publix the next day to give an interview with the local news station about the hate crime against her, when the person she accused of telling her to "go back" to where she "came from," appeared to tell his side of the story.

As it turns out, the "white man," is Eric Sparkes, a Cuban-American who's also a Trump-hating Democrat. Sparkes recently called out President Trump for telling the four Democrat lawmakers if they don't like it in America, they should "go back to where you came from."

The tearful viral video of the Jussie Smollet of Georgia can still be found on her Facebook page. The tweets supporting her by Democrat lawmakers also remain, with the hashtag #IStandWithErica, even though she's retracted her accusation against Sparkes. In the end, it's never about the truth with Democrats, it's about pushing a certain narrative. To hell with the truth...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 03:46:20 PM
What the hell did I just read?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2019, 03:46:56 PM
Democrats BAD.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 03:50:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 22, 2019, 03:46:56 PM
Democrats BAD.

Yeah but it is like you have to be in the bubble to understand why. And I am supposed to care about some random state Rep's facebook page or twitter account? I mean presuming that story is even accurately being told.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2019, 03:53:09 PM
The concept of "using white privilege to bully someone" is an interesting one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2019, 03:53:09 PM
The concept of "using white privilege to bully someone" is an interesting one.

Yeah I am not really sure how I would do that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 22, 2019, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 22, 2019, 01:03:05 PM
Extremes?

Yes.  The far left is generally pro-immigration whether it's legal or illegal-- for example they commonly brand people concerned about border security, illegal immigration, etc. as "anti-immigrant".

QuoteThis has become the standard issue of the American Right.  It's what the President wants, and frankly, it's what Republicans have wanted for years.

Can you explain that a little further?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2019, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 03:54:18 PM
Yeah I am not really sure how I would do that.

This just means that you already are.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on July 22, 2019, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 03:50:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 22, 2019, 03:46:56 PM
Democrats BAD.

Yeah but it is like you have to be in the bubble to understand why. And I am supposed to care about some random state Rep's facebook page or twitter account? I mean presuming that story is even accurately being told.

This crucial story actually made The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/21/us/erica-thomas-georgia.html).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 08:44:40 PM
Jesus Christ.

See what is the point of gatekeepers if they are just going to report the stupid shit on social media as news anyway?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2019, 09:08:25 PM
It's an elected official saying something dumb which is emblematic of a larger societal trend.  That's newsworthy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2019, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2019, 09:08:25 PM
It's an elected official saying something dumb which is emblematic of a larger societal trend.  That's newsworthy.

I guess. But we are talking some minor state senator. If we had a news story everytime some state assembly representative or mayor or city council member someplace did or said something stupid that would be the entirety of the news.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on July 22, 2019, 11:58:27 PM
It should be news in Georgia.  Not sure it needs to be in the national media or the NY media.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 23, 2019, 12:52:03 AM
Help, help, they're being oppressed!

QuoteIt might be long, but it is worth reading.....


Civil War... How do civil wars happen?

Two or more sides disagree on who runs the country. And they can't settle the question through elections
because they don't even agree that elections are how you decide who's in charge. That's the basic issue here.

Who decides who runs the country? When you hate each other but accept the election results, you have a
country. When you stop accepting election results, you have a countdown to a civil war.

The Mueller investigation is about removing President Trump from office and overturning the results of an
election. We all know that. But it's not the first time they've done this. The first time a Republican president
was elected this century, they said he didn't really win. The Supreme Court gave him the election. There's a
pattern here.

What do sure odds of the Democrats rejecting the next Republican president really mean? It means they don't
accept the results of any election that they don't win. It means they don't believe that transfers of power in this
country are determined by elections. -- That's a civil war.

There's no shooting. At least not unless you count the attempt to kill a bunch of Republicans at a charity base-
ball game practice. But the Democrats have rejected our system of government.

This isn't dissent. It's not disagreement. You can hate the other party. You can think they're the worst thing that
ever happened to the country. But then you work harder to win the next election. When you consistently reject
the results of elections that you don't win, what you want is a dictatorship... Your very own dictatorship.

The only legitimate exercise of power in this country, according to Democrats, is its own. Whenever Republicans
exercise power, it's inherently illegitimate. The Democrats lost Congress. They lost the White House. So what did
they do? They began trying to run the country through Federal judges and bureaucrats. Every time that a Federal
judge issues an order saying that the President of the United States can't scratch his own back without his say so,
that's the civil war.

Our system of government is based on the constitution, but that's not the system that runs this country. The
Democrat's system is that any part of government that it runs gets total and unlimited power over the country. If the
Democrats are in the White House, then the president can do anything. And I mean anything. He can have his own
amnesty for illegal aliens. He can fine you for not having health insurance. His power is unlimited. He's a dictator.
But when Republicans get into the White House, suddenly the President can't do anything. He isn't even allowed to
undo the illegal alien amnesty that his predecessor illegally invented. A Democrat in the White House has 'discretion'
to completely decide every aspect of immigration policy. A Republican doesn't even have the 'discretion' to reverse
him. That's how the game is played That's how our country is run. Sad but true, although the left hasn't yet won that
particular fight.

When a Democrat is in the White House, states aren't even allowed to enforce immigration law. But when a Republi-
can is in the White House, states can create their own immigration laws. Under Obama, a state wasn't allowed to go to
the bathroom without asking permission. But under Trump, Jerry Brown can go around saying that California is an
independent republic and sign treaties with other countries. The Constitution has something to say about that.
Whether it's Federal or State, Executive, Legislative or Judiciary, the left moves power around to run the country.
If it controls an institution, then that institution is suddenly the supreme power in the land. This is what I call a moving
dictatorship.

Donald Trump has caused the Shadow Government to come out of hiding: Professional government is a guild. Like
medieval guilds. You can't serve in if you're not a member. If you haven't been indoctrinated into its arcane rituals. If
you aren't in the club. And Trump isn't in the club. He brought in a bunch of people who aren't in the club with him.
Now we're seeing what the pros do when amateurs try to walk in on them. They spy on them, they investigate them
and they send them to jail. They use the tools of power to bring them down. That's not a free country.

It's not a free country when FBI agents who support Hillary take out an 'insurance policy' against Trump winning the
election. It's not a free country when Obama officials engage in the massive unmasking of the opposition. It's not a free
country when the media responds to the other guy winning by trying to ban the conservative media that supported him
from social media. It's not a free country when all of the above collude together to overturn an election because the
guy who wasn't supposed to win did.

Have no doubt, we're in a civil war between conservative volunteer government and a leftist Democrat professional
government.

...
0
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 23, 2019, 03:47:57 AM
It IS becoming terribly difficult to get ahead in life while being a racist ignorant twat. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 23, 2019, 04:13:02 AM
Republicans are fucking weirdos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 23, 2019, 08:17:14 AM
I thought if you started talking about how shitty the country was you were an anti-American who needed to leave the country?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 23, 2019, 08:22:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2019, 08:17:14 AM
I thought if you started talking about how shitty the country was you were an anti-American who needed to leave the country?

Poor Valmy's continued quest to find logic in what are the chaotic lash-outs of frustrated petty people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 08:58:44 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2019, 03:56:27 PM

Can you explain that a little further?


Republican revolt under President George W. Bush when he tried to address the issue of immigration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 23, 2019, 09:02:25 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 08:58:44 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2019, 03:56:27 PM

Can you explain that a little further?


Republican revolt under President George W. Bush when he tried to address the issue of immigration.

He wanted to do amnesty for illegals and got pushback on it.  That's not quite the same as opposing all immigration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 09:18:53 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2019, 09:02:25 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 08:58:44 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 22, 2019, 03:56:27 PM

Can you explain that a little further?


Republican revolt under President George W. Bush when he tried to address the issue of immigration.

He wanted to do amnesty for illegals and got pushback on it.  That's not quite the same as opposing all immigration.


Uh,huh.  So is it your opinion that Republican opposition to legal immigration started within the last 12 months?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 23, 2019, 11:24:45 AM
No.  It's always been there on the fringes. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 23, 2019, 11:49:56 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2019, 11:24:45 AM
No.  It's always been there on the fringes.

Not so much a fringe element now is it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 23, 2019, 11:54:46 AM
How prevalent is it now?  Honest question as I haven't seen any polling data recently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 23, 2019, 02:52:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2019, 11:54:46 AM
How prevalent is it now?  Honest question as I haven't seen any polling data recently.

:huh:

You have a whole stadium of people at a rally "Send her back".   

Or are you expecting people to answer "yes, I am a racist" when a polling company company asks them the question?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on July 23, 2019, 03:04:14 PM
Never mind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 23, 2019, 03:07:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 23, 2019, 02:52:08 PM

Or are you expecting people to answer "yes, I am a racist" when a polling company company asks them the question?

The question would probably be something like "do you think immigration is a good thing for the United States?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 23, 2019, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2019, 03:07:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 23, 2019, 02:52:08 PM

Or are you expecting people to answer "yes, I am a racist" when a polling company company asks them the question?

The question would probably be something like "do you think immigration is a good thing for the United States?"

Not sure why the data is required to show where Trump has moved the party. If the result showed the a majority of republicans favoured immigration you would want to take a good look at the methodology.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 23, 2019, 04:09:44 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 23, 2019, 03:04:14 PM
Never mind.

Dude, it's unequivocal that Trump is a racist. His approval number is around 40%.

So there you have it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 06:32:04 PM
One of the Fox News chatter heads put up an graphic that showed the pictures of the "Conservative voices being silenced".  One of them was Paul Nehlen, an out and out Nazi.  I don't mean a Nazi as in grammar Nazi, or Soup Nazi, or just an extreme conservative, I mean a "gas all the Jews Nazi".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 23, 2019, 06:42:49 PM
How are they being silenced? Their propaganda bombards us all continually.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 06:56:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2019, 06:42:49 PM
How are they being silenced? Their propaganda bombards us all continually.

I think they were violating the terms of service for Facebook and Twitter and thus could not use the product anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 23, 2019, 07:32:46 PM
That's how the right gets poor people to vote for them. By convincing them they're not really poor, poorness is a moral (ethnic) failing. If things were fair and not biased against them then they'd be rich.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2019, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 23, 2019, 07:32:46 PM
That's how the right gets poor people to vote for them. By convincing them they're not really poor, poorness is a moral (ethnic) failing. If things were fair and not biased against them then they'd be rich.

This doesn't even make sense on its own terms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2019, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 23, 2019, 07:32:46 PM
That's how the right gets poor people to vote for them. By convincing them they're not really poor, poorness is a moral (ethnic) failing. If things were fair and not biased against them then they'd be rich.

This doesn't even make sense on its own terms.


I think I know what he's getting at, but he needs to clean it up a bit.  LBJ noted something similar:
Quote"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 24, 2019, 02:49:14 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 11:57:07 PM

I think I know what he's getting at, but he needs to clean it up a bit.  LBJ noted something similar:
Quote"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Heh, that is a very good way of explaining it.

It also points at an important aspect of why forces of reaction have gained traction against forces of progress. People judge their lot in life in relation to their immediate peers and environment. When you eliminate the 2nd class status of women, non-whites, and non-heterosexuals, merit, as in skills, employability, and income become a much more important measures of societal status, and thus a lot of useless white people find themselves on the bottom of the social ladder where in the past they could still look down on a number of people regardless of their own status and worth.

I am not saying this should be approached with empathy or anything of that sort, but it should be understood, when you change the social order of things, even if for the better, those who enjoyed benefits of the old status quo are going to be pissed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 24, 2019, 02:59:53 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 24, 2019, 02:49:14 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 11:57:07 PM

I think I know what he's getting at, but he needs to clean it up a bit.  LBJ noted something similar:
Quote"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Heh, that is a very good way of explaining it.

It also points at an important aspect of why forces of reaction have gained traction against forces of progress. People judge their lot in life in relation to their immediate peers and environment. When you eliminate the 2nd class status of women, non-whites, and non-heterosexuals, merit, as in skills, employability, and income become a much more important measures of societal status, and thus a lot of useless white people find themselves on the bottom of the social ladder where in the past they could still look down on a number of people regardless of their own status and worth.

I am not saying this should be approached with empathy or anything of that sort, but it should be understood, when you change the social order of things, even if for the better, those who enjoyed benefits of the old status quo are going to be pissed.

But that's then similar to when you have a shitty employee who is pissed when people keep getting promoted past them. You just need to work to limit the damage they can cause to the group as they increasingly become irrelevant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 24, 2019, 04:11:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 24, 2019, 02:59:53 AM

But that's then similar to when you have a shitty employee who is pissed when people keep getting promoted past them. You just need to work to limit the damage they can cause to the group as they increasingly become irrelevant.

I agree. It's just that I feel like this conscious damage-limiting work has been ignored and it might have helped to contain the reactionaries better, if it wasn't.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 24, 2019, 04:27:44 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 24, 2019, 02:49:14 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 23, 2019, 11:57:07 PM

I think I know what he's getting at, but he needs to clean it up a bit.  LBJ noted something similar:
Quote"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Heh, that is a very good way of explaining it.

It also points at an important aspect of why forces of reaction have gained traction against forces of progress. People judge their lot in life in relation to their immediate peers and environment. When you eliminate the 2nd class status of women, non-whites, and non-heterosexuals, merit, as in skills, employability, and income become a much more important measures of societal status, and thus a lot of useless white people find themselves on the bottom of the social ladder where in the past they could still look down on a number of people regardless of their own status and worth.

I am not saying this should be approached with empathy or anything of that sort, but it should be understood, when you change the social order of things, even if for the better, those who enjoyed benefits of the old status quo are going to be pissed.


This is a big reason why the regional inequality in the UK is such a horrid state of affairs.

In a properly working country with less regional inequality; things work.
Local kid goes to university and gets a good job?- he likely still lives in the area, he keeps the same social connections, if he has children they end up going to school with the children of less gifted people he went to school with.
A poor kid growing up in the area can see that yes, his parents haven't amounted to much, but there's all these people in varied and interesting jobs from a similar background to himself who have been able to make a success of themselves. He has a chance if he applies himself.

In the UK meanwhile, that doesn't work. If you get a good job then chances are 50% you're forced to move to London and 40% is forced into one of the other major cities. You're probably not going to be staying at home. From the day you set off for university you're leaving that world behind.
As a result kids growing up in those areas.... they know doctors and teachers are things that exist....and then....there's footballers and reality TV stars and (at risk of showing my age by exclusion) youtubers... if they can't get those jobs then there's nothing for them. Life has no hope so why bother.
Achievement in life is about conspicuous consumption of what little you have, making sure you always have the latest phone and nicest clothes so you appear more successful than your peers. Actually being more successful just doesn't happen.

Meanwhile you've people still breathing who remember the days when inequality was not so bad. When the working class was a viable thing. Not many went to university so the middle class was kept small with little reason to travel to the other end of the country (in that period, go earlier again and things are different), and there were industrial jobs aplenty.
Sure times sucked. Nobody actually wants to spend their days bent down at a coal face and shopping in bland British-goods-only supermarkets.
But compared to the current situation of despair and hopelessness? The rose tinted specs are tempting. The bad side can be forgotten and only the fundamental positives remembered and built up due to the realisation that something is wrong today.

There are many reasons to tackle inequality. Though you tend to see little recognition of this critical one that is fundamentally ruining society.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 24, 2019, 04:43:54 AM
QuoteMeanwhile you've people still breathing who remember the days when inequality was not so bad. When the working class was a viable thing. Not many went to university so the middle class was kept small with little reason to travel to the other end of the country (in that period, go earlier again and things are different), and there were industrial jobs aplenty.

Fine, but it is important to see that being unskilled labour in the production sector has ceased being a reliable source of decent income everywhere in the developed world. And those days are not coming back, sans a global meltdown of some sorts collapsing trade forcing local communities to fend for themselves. But that's not a good alternative to the present situation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 26, 2019, 01:55:29 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67241815_10216024246460409_7268353063163789312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQkxpRym8xJNwMpi5SENpr4KvZ8gpzGnt5pjBY3aKRUznVI-0OsWBSnZQrbDVzaEJjA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4acfaea59f6b4fbe59382bd93c01bbf0&oe=5DEA532D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 26, 2019, 02:02:18 PM
So not votes that should count, but land area.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 26, 2019, 02:11:18 PM
I think you could have made a case, one I do not agree with, based on the points raised but I certainly do not see how that particular conclusion follows.

At least they are not claiming the system is rigged and everybody needs to be thrown in jail.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on July 26, 2019, 10:42:43 PM
FFS tell your dumbass family to actually read a book, that stupid post has been disproven back in 2016.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 27, 2019, 02:07:49 AM
Quote from: katmai on July 26, 2019, 10:42:43 PM
FFS tell your dumbass family to actually read a book, that stupid post has been disproven back in 2016.

FOX News and Daily Caller is all they need. :)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64304559_10213350283978115_1510334500997955584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQnXjDsgZDGI8xEK1qxHKSbN4y3tlzpJniEwJ-qrW5y3VNYKbqhUcLgEBUZ2L9sSITo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d3009a8b7e8e37b891e0683ec5b4c551&oe=5DA05709)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on July 27, 2019, 03:38:14 AM
I love how it spends the entire post building the case for why some people's votes shouldn't count or count less than others and then finishes with, "And this children is WHY you have an Electoral College.  It's a safety net so that EVERYONE'S vote counts."  Which is it?  Also, fuck the Electoral College.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 27, 2019, 08:27:21 AM
The electoral college could work as designed if Congress simply mandated that states abandon the winner-take-all distribution of electors.  That's the insane part, not the part where smaller states have a slightly disproportionate number of electors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 27, 2019, 08:33:13 AM
Even if that were the case why keep it? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 27, 2019, 08:56:33 AM
It's not even accurate.  Clinton didn't win 57 counties, she won 487 counties.  She also gained significantly more of the popular vote than is described here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 27, 2019, 09:35:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 27, 2019, 08:56:33 AM
It's not even accurate.  Clinton didn't win 57 counties, she won 487 counties.  She also gained significantly more of the popular vote than is described here.

QuoteThe flawed claim about Trump's winning 3,084 out of 3,141 counties was fairly clearly based on a misunderstanding of a 15 November 2016 Breitbart article. That article did not hold that Donald Trump had won county-wide popular votes by a 3084 to 57 margin, but rather that if one excluded all the votes in 57 particular counties from the national total and only counted votes in the remaining 3084 counties, Donald Trump would have won the national popular vote by a 7.5 million votes

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-clinton-counties-won/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 27, 2019, 10:22:51 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 27, 2019, 08:33:13 AM
Even if that were the case why keep it?

I tend to favor keeping the EC, as I see it as serving the same purpose in the Executive branch that the Senate serves in the Legislative branch.  A way of keeping a few, heavily populated states from dominating the EB in the same way that those same states could dominate if we had just a House of Representatives.

I think this is more important in our system than in a parliamentary democracy (especially with as much power as the executive wields), as ours is much harder to remove from power.   

But as grumbler said, I also agree that there is much about the mechanics of the EC that could stand reform.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 27, 2019, 10:31:45 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 27, 2019, 08:33:13 AM
Even if that were the case why keep it?

Because it is written into the US Constitution.  Making changes to the Constitution is difficult, and making a change that revokes a compromise that was necessary to get the smaller states to ratify the constitution is even more difficult. 

QuoteArticle V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

Getting three-quarters of the states to agree to this change would be difficult, as it would require a number of states to give up a status quo currently favorable to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 27, 2019, 10:08:17 PM
Ok, but I was talking about the merits of such a system.  What is the argument for?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 27, 2019, 10:49:25 PM
King's County (Brooklyn) has about the same population as the smallest 4 US states by population, who collectively elect 8 Senators.  I don't think big cities are over-represented in America. Empty fields and glaciers on the other hand seem to be doing just fine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 27, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 27, 2019, 10:08:17 PM
Ok, but I was talking about the merits of such a system.  What is the argument for?

That seems a totally worthless angle to pursue. "Ok, but I was talking about the merits of anti gravity.  What is the argument for?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 27, 2019, 11:10:32 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 27, 2019, 10:49:25 PM
King's County (Brooklyn) has about the same population as the smallest 4 US states by population, who collectively elect 8 Senators.  I don't think big cities are over-represented in America. Empty fields and glaciers on the other hand seem to be doing just fine.

Yeah the countryside gets total control over their local government and is over represented at the state and the federal level already. I don't really see how the Electoral College is needed for that purpose and indeed the Electoral College was not designed to do that.

But there is little hope of it ever being removed. But reforms might be a good idea to ensure a truly absurd result never happens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2019, 12:25:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/65801129_10157644270894206_6479384621908754432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQmbAWPamzfW3B5INozb3Z1QlGLys3n7mtoVpjfIPLIGUjkBhI7PckKMHpCKh1Fvlsw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0d6dc31bafd325e81a5253f28eeda83a&oe=5DEAE18C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 28, 2019, 12:47:02 AM
I mean I guess a few of those people are that old.

I am not sure what laws they are referring to though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 28, 2019, 11:19:40 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 27, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 27, 2019, 10:08:17 PM
Ok, but I was talking about the merits of such a system.  What is the argument for?

That seems a totally worthless angle to pursue. "Ok, but I was talking about the merits of anti gravity.  What is the argument for?"


Ok, no point in discussing the merits of the US system.  Got it
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 28, 2019, 05:44:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2019, 12:47:02 AM
I mean I guess a few of those people are that old.

I am not sure what laws they are referring to though.

Valmy, you might benefit from reading this :P  https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/04/right-wing-groups-are-training-young-conservatives-to-win-the-next-meme-war/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 28, 2019, 05:47:57 PM
Link doesn't work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 28, 2019, 07:14:08 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 28, 2019, 05:47:57 PM
Link doesn't work.


Works for me.  Must be blocked out in Georgia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 28, 2019, 07:16:33 PM
I corrected the link after Eddie's post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 30, 2019, 01:20:49 AM
I see my sister is deeply moved by the shooting in California.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37948110_2176424449242125_5020561888484786176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQlvAo-z8FTlfh4x9xX0wZqUCocvO_qMP8aGuO00uSclFmWKP4wBo2hW2_N3F5zYzMg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7034ff3d77611e8abb16d879f95a7c35&oe=5DE71ABA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 30, 2019, 07:13:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67636580_10219700159838199_8152503958292660224_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQkm-_IWJnWIzUibxD_279csEGUigTclbcoGac_l3RdIDVcJabkXH5xi-YcmkueMet4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=18dd499095814e82b9b3d7995411129b&oe=5DE7A6C9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 30, 2019, 08:48:51 AM
This has to be a psychiatric condition.  Is there already a name for it, or will it be up to psychiatrists from the next civilization studying the decline of ours to name it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 30, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2019, 08:48:51 AM
This has to be a psychiatric condition.  Is there already a name for it, or will it be up to psychiatrists from the next civilization studying the decline of ours to name it?




folie à des millions
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 30, 2019, 10:48:09 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 30, 2019, 06:39:28 PM
I'm guessing I didn't write that correctly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 30, 2019, 07:24:45 PM
No you did, I just found it funny  :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 31, 2019, 01:00:59 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67449772_10216899461536428_6197115024708730880_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQkOt2hud-eaJf07oxVOzqzVBzcmcBOR7AG3p1NJfx3W8M_Sndp-zVXe7bIFkZ3Fu_4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4dd5cd6a46bd0c1bf5f6199d864dadbf&oe=5DDCB876)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 31, 2019, 09:50:00 AM
Maybe it is because your rumors are baseless and without evidence?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 04, 2019, 12:32:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67450309_2358067327624854_5738582666920329216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQk4hcRBpM0M_96qYNOnBGgHtnSjOKLwJvRNNFmD-bu7BQfMjnCNlV9XpCgA7ux9XgA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fedc982dec83d29651fb52b852911d89&oe=5DA5EBC8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on August 04, 2019, 10:38:49 PM
These are the same people who didn't want women in the military.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on August 04, 2019, 10:47:07 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 04, 2019, 10:38:49 PM
These are the same people who didn't want women in the military.

Well, remember, women don't have the upper body strength to haul a wounded comrade off the field of battle
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 04, 2019, 11:15:44 PM
The woman in front looks like she has some giant blood.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 12:05:55 AM
Did the women's soccer team self-identify as heroes or something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2019, 12:07:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 12:05:55 AM
Did the women's soccer team self-identify as heroes or something?

They asked  for more money and New York gave them a parade.  Seven degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2019, 01:03:27 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67468614_2296616443926323_5713669739184652288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQnldajWiADA3b5d_8QkhHcHI2zJ-VtE5VFG2YOx6u3Ed7D_DrXCIAEvlhwSbf4-PdU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d9136b7f63c8cd92cbd61207df091dea&oe=5DD11091)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2019, 07:13:04 AM


Quote(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67558091_406862773282578_5620611138048753664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQnEpqR5fvj67vBqeoqzTWMaGILgifV9t5LcdrC7yBjkRieOLsTo-A2Vt4z8Ixix8Qc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1d0b6081b80eb83e0cc92eb7f9cdc17e&oe=5DE8FBC3)

Gay Republican
August 3 at 9:35 PM ·
Why?

Why do these mass shootings keep happening here in the Land of the Free and the Brave?

I used to think that the massacre and destruction at Pulse, my home away from home, was the worst shooting that we would ever tolerate!

But, the shootings keep happening...

Because we need tougher gun laws?!?! Ummm...no! Gun laws don't deter criminals, clearly!

We need to do a much better job of identifying and treating ACEs (adverse childhood experiences), providing mental health services, and also disciplining our children!!!

Spoiling psychotic and violent children with no repercussions leads to defiant teens and then incompetent adults!!!

A society of massively overly stimulated, yet underwhelmingly disciplined youth, who are simultaneously empowered and disilllusioned by the social media stars they ridiculously worship, has led to illogical discontentment instead of gratefulness, entitlement instead of empathy, incompetence instead of diligence, and ultimately violence instead of the generosity and compassion necessary to be good people!

We are failing our youth...by not teaching them to be strong warriors, dedicated patriots, and compassionate citizens! So thankful that my parents disciplined me, expected the best of me, and never, ever let me expect less than the best for myself! Why are parents in our current culture afraid to hold their children to a high standard, discipline them, and effectively raise successful adults?! We need to raise victors; not victims!

Victims seek revenge...

Victors seek success!!!

Have we all experienced disappointments, crushing failures, and/or horrific abuse? Probably yes! Did it cause all of us to be failures? Unkind to others? And/or mass shooters? Clearly no!!!!!!!
Prayers for the families of this latest tragedy!!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 05, 2019, 07:18:00 AM
Why do gays abuse punctuation marks so flagrantly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2019, 08:56:09 AM
Quote(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67739093_1259458657557028_8149867831920427008_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQlz0fxMHAsYIQIZh3qpRmAFBCAEyjSNnUBPZOSKXT31cO1U8OrFrBpUdZvFpqs0AQ8&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3942c57865923f42857d19a3ddc7cfc5&oe=5DEAC1DA)

The Independent Conservative
· 10 hrs ·

Anyone that thinks passing a law, ANY LAW that takes rights away from millions of law abiding citizens will stop shootings is a plain and simple ignorant IDIOT and need to shut up, be seen and not heard! Evil People exist and they do NOT care about laws....... it is illegal to KILL! Hasn't stopped a single psycho yet! Mental illness has been allowed to run wild with no restriction! Both Republicans and Democrats have FAILED to do ANYTHING to change it, why...... because neither have figured out how to make money on it!  :ultra:  :ultra:  :ultra:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 09:29:19 AM
I think the way to make money off providing services is fairly straightforward, not sure what there is to figure out.

And how do they know that nobody at all is deterred from murder being illegal?

Anyway I look forward to all these conservatives finally creating a robust and thorough reform to our Mental Health system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 05, 2019, 09:48:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 09:29:19 AM
I think the way to make money off providing services is fairly straightforward, not sure what there is to figure out.

And how do they know that nobody at all is deterred from murder being illegal?

Anyway I look forward to all these conservatives finally creating a robust and thorough reform to our Mental Health system.

They will once you explain to them how to make money off it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2019, 09:59:19 AM
They busy today.

Quote(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67623079_406391643329691_8329826880018448384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQneK24jrRBU9ZFXaPDTTFq60RdlM5sEUwrwkzwcdeBgBXJg3NK8WooAbgtZkjPkpFc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=56b12887fe5316690fc171efb0690236&oe=5DE27774)

Gay Republican
· August 3 ·

Disgracing the legacy of one of America's greatest and most widely loved Presidents is beyond shameful! I am absolutely livid and repulsed! The Left obviously has no respect for President Reagan - who wholeheartedly loved America - the "shining city on the hill," created countless jobs, restored our economy, rebuilt our honorable military, tore down the Berlin Wall, and defeated the communist Soviet Union! The grandest hero of the Cold War! Among a plethora of other notable accomplishments! But now, because he was recorded reacting in justifiable anger to a disgraceful meeting of the incompetent UN, on a private phone conversation, he's being denigrated posthumously...it is utterly disrespectful and frightening! Can you imagine if everything you'd ever uttered in anger was being broadcast nationwide?! Especially after you served this country in such a tremendous way and can no longer defend yourself?! Seriously?! Reagan wasn't racist! Republicans aren't racists!!! Damn! It's as if logic, reason, and comprehension of historical culture have been completely erased! These are different times! Many things that are deemed racist or offensive today were completely acceptable in our culture in the past - it was simply called freedom of speech! Am I affirming racism or discrimination? Absolutely not! I'm simply stating the fact that cultural norms have changed!!! Good grief!!! I just "can't even" anymore...I am literally dumbfounded by the ignorance and "snowflake mentality" that are inundating our culture!!!
Reagan, thank you for being an amazing patriot!!! I love you and America!!! ❤️🇺🇸
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:00:05 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 05, 2019, 09:48:19 AM
They will once you explain to them how to make money off it.

Well you provide money for mental health services and then people who provide mental health services will get paid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:01:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 05, 2019, 09:59:19 AM
They busy today.

Um the 80s were not this big racist era they think it was. I was there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2019, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:01:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 05, 2019, 09:59:19 AM
They busy today.

Um the 80s were not this big racist era they think it was. I was there.

I think this refers to the Nixon/Reagan tape from the 60s or 70s?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:07:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 05, 2019, 10:03:30 AM
I think this refers to the Nixon/Reagan tape from the 60s or 70s?

Wait so Nixon was asking him about UN stuff when he was the Governor of California? Ah well. That is what I get for not keeping up with the outrage du jour.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2019, 10:13:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:07:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 05, 2019, 10:03:30 AM
I think this refers to the Nixon/Reagan tape from the 60s or 70s?

Wait so Nixon was asking him about UN stuff when he was the Governor of California? Ah well. That is what I get for not keeping up with the outrage du jour.

October 71, it seems.

Audio link:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-reagans-racist-conversation-richard-nixon/595102/

QuoteThe day after the United Nations voted to recognize the People's Republic of China, then–California Governor Ronald Reagan phoned President Richard Nixon at the White House and vented his frustration at the delegates who had sided against the United States. "Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did," Reagan said. "Yeah," Nixon interjected. Reagan forged ahead with his complaint: "To see those, those monkeys from those African countries—damn them, they're still uncomfortable wearing shoes!" Nixon gave a huge laugh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:36:53 AM
I bet Reagan was delighted when Nixon became Red China's best buddy the very next year then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 05, 2019, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:00:05 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 05, 2019, 09:48:19 AM
They will once you explain to them how to make money off it.

Well you provide money for mental health services and then people who provide mental health services will get paid.

That doesn't explain how either the government or individual Congress members make money off it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 05, 2019, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:36:53 AM
I bet Reagan was delighted when Nixon became Red China's best buddy the very next year then.


I don't know, maybe he called up Nixon to tell him a racist joke about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 05, 2019, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:01:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 05, 2019, 09:59:19 AM
They busy today.

Um the 80s were not this big racist era they think it was. I was there.

Were you in a position to assess the level of racism?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 12:09:23 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 05, 2019, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:01:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 05, 2019, 09:59:19 AM
They busy today.

Um the 80s were not this big racist era they think it was. I was there.

Were you in a position to assess the level of racism?

A good enough position to know that calling black people animals publicly was not acceptable.

Are you implying that it was, in fact, ok what Reagan said because that was just what everybody was saying back then? I mean I remember the big deal when Howard Cosell made the monkey comment in the early 80s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 05, 2019, 12:22:27 PM
Reagan said it on a private phone call to Nixon that Nixon recorded.  He didn't say it publicly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 05, 2019, 12:22:27 PM
Reagan said it on a private phone call to Nixon that Nixon recorded.  He didn't say it publicly.

I am aware. But the claim was made that it was a different time and the culture just accepted that kind of thing being said. Counter to that claim, I am sure both Nixon and Reagan were aware that kind of joke was not going to fly in the culture generally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 05, 2019, 12:33:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 12:09:23 PM
A good enough position to know that calling black people animals publicly was not acceptable.
Are you implying that it was, in fact, ok what Reagan said because that was just what everybody was saying back then? I mean I remember the big deal when Howard Cosell made the monkey comment in the early 80s.

My bad. I misunderstood  what your comment referenced.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 05, 2019, 01:36:41 PM
(https://i.redd.it/878r2kshcme31.jpg)
Lines show development of mortality per 100000 between 45-54 years of age. Red line is "white Americans".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 01:39:37 PM
Yeah that has been a thing for awhile. I think the meth and opoid epidemic are typically pointed to as the culprit. But we also have stress and bad health care and obesity and all that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 05, 2019, 01:42:32 PM
Why does this "you can't outlaw evil/criminals don't obey the law" sort of thing never apply to anything besides civilian firearms withing the US?  I've never seen someone say that we shouldn't be trying to prevent the Iranians from building nuclear weapons and instead work on promoting more prayer in the Iranian education system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 05, 2019, 01:47:01 PM
We shouldn't have criminal law either. Laws against murder don't stop people from committing murder.  It goes without saying we shouldn't bother with immigration laws, because illegal immigrants will ignore them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 05, 2019, 03:46:20 PM
Quote from: Zanza on August 05, 2019, 01:36:41 PM
Lines show development of mortality per 100000 between 45-54 years of age. Red line is "white Americans".

Does that include white Hispanics?  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 05, 2019, 08:23:43 PM
Quote from: Zanza on August 05, 2019, 01:36:41 PM
(https://i.redd.it/878r2kshcme31.jpg)
Lines show development of mortality per 100000 between 45-54 years of age. Red line is "white Americans".
Where is the folly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 07, 2019, 01:06:13 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67418129_2594803507220822_2254022914527461376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlQ8kVvpXZQuBsvTwzVyN3P98HsjXNKUN4AvWRE6zDkaLPS6XvIcKobVShy5BpAaRA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0c59f877b49c42a7244c2e15e7e02146&oe=5DA37596)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 07, 2019, 01:08:50 PM
How much does meme writing pay?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 07, 2019, 01:09:45 PM
You have to ask idahoansforliberty dot com.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 07, 2019, 01:11:54 PM
Apparently, 41,000 rubles a month: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 08, 2019, 02:40:04 PM
Seen on Facebook:

"Dear white dudes on the internet who think they could handle an armed mass shooter: I've seen your Google reviews. You can't even handle a 15-minute wait for a burger."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 02:43:46 PM
What about other genders and races who think they can handle armed mass shooters?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 08, 2019, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 02:43:46 PM
What about other genders and races who think they can handle armed mass shooters?

Really?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
Really. Why is it ok to make sweeping generalizations about white dudes and nobody else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on August 08, 2019, 03:03:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 02:43:46 PM
What about other genders and races who think they can handle armed mass shooters?

They aren't nearly as prevalent online.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
Really. Why is it ok to make sweeping generalizations about white dudes and nobody else?

...nobody else, as a first approximation, is online talking shit about what they would have done.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 08, 2019, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
Really. Why is it ok to make sweeping generalizations about white dudes and nobody else?

Have you spent any time at all time on social media?

It's a jab at a specific form of white male gun machismo that is incredibly prevalent online. If you have never encountered it, consider yourself blessed.

I have yet to find the vast hordes of black women who brag online that they could have taken down an active shooter with their guns. But you may be better informed than I.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 08, 2019, 03:13:54 PM
Quote from: ulmont on August 08, 2019, 03:03:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 02:43:46 PM
What about other genders and races who think they can handle armed mass shooters?

They aren't nearly as prevalent online.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
Really. Why is it ok to make sweeping generalizations about white dudes and nobody else?

...nobody else, as a first approximation, is online talking shit about what they would have done.

I guess the issue then is whether an invidious racial or sexual generalization becomes non-offensive if it can be plausibly argued that it is true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 08, 2019, 03:18:18 PM
they could have used "gun nuts" or any other of quite a few nicknames instead of "white dudes". but using "white dudes" has the extra benefit of annoying white men, so I get why they used it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on August 08, 2019, 03:19:10 PM
The masturbatory self-defenses fantasists are one of the worst parts of gun culture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 08, 2019, 03:31:46 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 08, 2019, 03:18:18 PM
they could have used "gun nuts" or any other of quite a few nicknames instead of "white dudes". but using "white dudes" has the extra benefit of annoying white men, so I get why they used it.

Gun nuttery in the US is intimately tied with racial politics and white machismo. Contrast with *another* type of gun culture - black revolutionary power - and you'll see the difference clearly enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 03:38:42 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 08, 2019, 03:18:18 PM
they could have used "gun nuts" or any other of quite a few nicknames instead of "white dudes". but using "white dudes" has the extra benefit of annoying white men, so I get why they used it.

It is almost a slur the way it is used. "White dudes" is never used as a positive. It is definitely used to dehumanize and demonize.

And in any case I have met more than a few women who were gun nuts. I know that breaks the narrative that your views are entirely dependent on your race and gender though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 03:41:54 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 08, 2019, 03:31:46 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 08, 2019, 03:18:18 PM
they could have used "gun nuts" or any other of quite a few nicknames instead of "white dudes". but using "white dudes" has the extra benefit of annoying white men, so I get why they used it.

Gun nuttery in the US is intimately tied with racial politics and white machismo. Contrast with *another* type of gun culture - black revolutionary power - and you'll see the difference clearly enough.

Black revolutionary power has no racial politics or machismo component? Or are you saying they are not gun nuts but just a gun culture?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 08, 2019, 03:44:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 03:41:54 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 08, 2019, 03:31:46 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 08, 2019, 03:18:18 PM
they could have used "gun nuts" or any other of quite a few nicknames instead of "white dudes". but using "white dudes" has the extra benefit of annoying white men, so I get why they used it.

Gun nuttery in the US is intimately tied with racial politics and white machismo. Contrast with *another* type of gun culture - black revolutionary power - and you'll see the difference clearly enough.

Black revolutionary power has no racial politics or machismo component? Or are you saying they are not gun nuts but just a gun culture?

They don't have white machismo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2019, 04:05:35 PM
I thought the implication of the post was that Black guys were more patient when it comes to getting their burger.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 08, 2019, 04:07:21 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 08, 2019, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
Really. Why is it ok to make sweeping generalizations about white dudes and nobody else?

Have you spent any time at all time on social media?

It's a jab at a specific form of white male gun machismo that is incredibly prevalent online. If you have never encountered it, consider yourself blessed.

I have yet to find the vast hordes of black women who brag online that they could have taken down an active shooter with their guns. But you may be better informed than I.

Marti is out there somewhere bragging that he would have tripped the shooter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 08, 2019, 07:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
Really. Why is it ok to make sweeping generalizations about white dudes and nobody else?

It's not all white dudes.  It's not all white dudes, all of whom think they can handle a mass shooter.  Only white dudes who think they can handle a mass shooter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on August 08, 2019, 08:57:39 PM
Meh, performative and ritualized anti-whiteness is just a part of Oex's shtick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 09, 2019, 01:45:41 AM
Quote from: Camerus on August 08, 2019, 08:57:39 PM
Meh, performative and ritualized anti-whiteness is just a part of Oex's shtick.
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 09, 2019, 01:45:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67591087_641670852990755_2554201533214359552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQkrRL0alqq3zX8DXf02t6byd6I25w4CIjYmXepTSNxHbb8RbTNGw31SBee4FC1DQKk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ca97f76041508cefa37d79a697eb44fe&oe=5DCDD1D0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 09, 2019, 02:01:50 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 08, 2019, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
Really. Why is it ok to make sweeping generalizations about white dudes and nobody else?

Have you spent any time at all time on social media?

It's a jab at a specific form of white male gun machismo that is incredibly prevalent online. If you have never encountered it, consider yourself blessed.

I have yet to find the vast hordes of black women who brag online that they could have taken down an active shooter with their guns. But you may be better informed than I.


As Malthus asked, so if you can show "proof" of the prejudice being valid, it makes it ok?

How does that make you different from people talking shit about Muslims and pointing to terror attacks? Or people hating on blacks and citing their selective crime statistics and such?

With rhetoric like that, you just help driving people into camps based on their skin colours and identity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 09, 2019, 04:54:55 AM
Not from Facebook, and obviously not from my family, but I thought some people here might enjoy it. :P

(https://i.redd.it/salm8i6lmcf31.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 09, 2019, 06:50:17 AM
I hadn't realized that France and the Confederacy shared a flag.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 09, 2019, 08:17:26 AM
Quote from: dps on August 09, 2019, 06:50:17 AM
I hadn't realized that France and the Confederacy shared a flag.  :)

Ok before we get into this, why are you giving me shit? Syt posted this and he isn't French.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 09, 2019, 08:20:31 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 09, 2019, 01:45:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67591087_641670852990755_2554201533214359552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQkrRL0alqq3zX8DXf02t6byd6I25w4CIjYmXepTSNxHbb8RbTNGw31SBee4FC1DQKk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ca97f76041508cefa37d79a697eb44fe&oe=5DCDD1D0)

First Canada does not ban guns, they have lots of guns. But they actually regulate them intelligently so their gun death rate is 1/6th of ours. Who is stupid now?

People freak out here just at the idea that maybe mentally ill former convicts of armed robbery maybe should have background checks conducted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 09, 2019, 08:38:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 09, 2019, 08:17:26 AM
Quote from: dps on August 09, 2019, 06:50:17 AM
I hadn't realized that France and the Confederacy shared a flag.  :)

Ok before we get into this, why are you giving me shit? Syt posted this and he isn't French.

Unless you were making the observation that both countries did indeed use white flags as their real flags -_-

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.fineartamerica.com%2Fimages-medium%2Fstainless-banner-david-andrews.jpg&hash=0b1720f83eb0e4a8007d675fad5a0a8d81ab1566)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Villars_a_Denain1.jpg/300px-Villars_a_Denain1.jpg)

In which case I applaud your decision to bring up interesting historical facts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 09, 2019, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 09, 2019, 08:17:26 AM
Quote from: dps on August 09, 2019, 06:50:17 AM
I hadn't realized that France and the Confederacy shared a flag.  :)

Ok before we get into this, why are you giving me shit? Syt posted this and he isn't French.

Now now he must have confused it with the Fleur de Lis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 09, 2019, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 09, 2019, 08:17:26 AM
Quote from: dps on August 09, 2019, 06:50:17 AM
I hadn't realized that France and the Confederacy shared a flag.  :)

Ok before we get into this, why are you giving me shit? Syt posted this and he isn't French.

Just being snarky;  don't take it personally.  Heck, it wasn't even creative.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 09, 2019, 12:29:08 PM
Quote from: dps on August 09, 2019, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 09, 2019, 08:17:26 AM
Quote from: dps on August 09, 2019, 06:50:17 AM
I hadn't realized that France and the Confederacy shared a flag.  :)

Ok before we get into this, why are you giving me shit? Syt posted this and he isn't French.

Just being snarky;  don't take it personally.  Heck, it wasn't even creative.

I didn't. But I am obligated to fiercely defend all things French.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on August 09, 2019, 09:47:06 PM
There's another one, just to trigger the sensitive wypipo:

(https://thejasminebrand.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/IMG_1C4DBE8E855A-1-439x600.jpeg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 10, 2019, 07:22:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67902854_1291108764383333_279025153134821376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQmMw_oCb9GKXtESaxyycPGWCUiCvCfXZMgws-Mb9NA97uTsthz9CsVZFoB8Bd72zcI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=da91371aa1ab60263aff1348f49b2b4d&oe=5DE32723)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 10, 2019, 11:16:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 10, 2019, 07:22:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67902854_1291108764383333_279025153134821376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQmMw_oCb9GKXtESaxyycPGWCUiCvCfXZMgws-Mb9NA97uTsthz9CsVZFoB8Bd72zcI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=da91371aa1ab60263aff1348f49b2b4d&oe=5DE32723)

I can understand why they would only want to go back 100 years.  Go back much further and working on the Sabbath, wearing modern clothing and a lot of foods would be out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 10, 2019, 01:08:05 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 09, 2019, 09:47:06 PM
There's another one, just to trigger the sensitive wypipo:

What? I cannot even get called by name? Just a slur?  :mad:  :P

Anyway, I get there is a profile here. Law enforcement needs to get those guys on their radar. But it sure makes it hard if you cannot even track weapons and sales and so forth as apparently in Florida you can just have a Glock in your house with no way for the cops to trace it. They talk about law abiding citizens and their guns but if there are no ways to stop those non-law abiding citizens what are we doing? But anyway I am pretty sure I said all this a few years and a few hundred mass shootings ago.

The president at least made a reference to profiling in his weird incoherent video games speech.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 11, 2019, 12:35:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67739608_10216987411975134_8273224038600409088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnIBq1sb9N5l5_NY05319n4FUfdSCQpXqIjtGJ_Y_OvNMw9YTcPBd25Os5YKOKD7QQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=138b3803d91a153df6d6f795ee5c1bb0&oe=5DEA4C8A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 11, 2019, 12:36:58 AM
Yeah well anytime they feel like they have something on one of them, they can ask our beloved President to prosecute.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 11, 2019, 01:06:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 11, 2019, 12:36:58 AM
Yeah well anytime they feel like they have something on one of them, they can ask our beloved President to prosecute.

I don't think the President of UT has that power.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 11, 2019, 01:08:44 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 11, 2019, 01:06:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 11, 2019, 12:36:58 AM
Yeah well anytime they feel like they have something on one of them, they can ask our beloved President to prosecute.

I don't think the President of UT has that power.

Yeah tell that to...wait I may have already said too much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 11, 2019, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 11, 2019, 12:35:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67739608_10216987411975134_8273224038600409088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnIBq1sb9N5l5_NY05319n4FUfdSCQpXqIjtGJ_Y_OvNMw9YTcPBd25Os5YKOKD7QQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=138b3803d91a153df6d6f795ee5c1bb0&oe=5DEA4C8A)

What possession of the Clinton's does this person know nothing about?

Sentence fragments are frustrating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2019, 11:35:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66602317_2075912682713479_8441518634127327232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQl3DmjpzJ_ObNj-FrXXn1K01oUCxKGHvNrW3AJqKp8AUdW0HgQ2U5QTmvf6WfKQ2N0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=79a929fda5b48b4163c62511a9b9f617&oe=5DC864ED)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 12, 2019, 11:37:47 AM
0 and 100% figures sound fishy.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 12, 2019, 01:40:05 PM
Wait, the 14th amendment?  The American Right has been moving toward the idea the 14th amendment needs to be removed.  Hell, Trump has claimed he can get rid of it with an executive order.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2019, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 12, 2019, 01:40:05 PM
Wait, the 14th amendment?  The American Right has been moving toward the idea the 14th amendment needs to be removed.  Hell, Trump has claimed he can get rid of it with an executive order.

Frankly I am always happy when they play the "19th century Democrats were evil" card by saying all those progressive things were good and the Confederacy was bad. We can at least agree on those things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 12, 2019, 02:47:29 PM
I'm cheating.  Facebook does not allow me to post the picture, and it didn't come from Facebook either, so, anyway, here y a go, I found it funny and don't know where to put it.  :)

(https://i.servimg.com/u/f84/15/65/04/57/5d49e110.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 12, 2019, 03:05:10 PM
It would be ironic if we ended up having 40% of the country being mouth breathing, heavily armed defenders of the 14th Amendment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2019, 03:05:31 PM
Someone following r/historymemes? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 12, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
You learn something new every day.  I had always thought that women gained the constitutional right to vote with the 19th Amendment.  Apparently they had it all along through the 15th amendment.  Also the 15th Amendment allows toddlers and non-citizens to vote!  Including illegal immigrants.  I had no idea that Republicans were such radical supports of non-citizen voting rights.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 13, 2019, 11:12:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66588895_10156675048442869_1390205034527981568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQksoB0DVWnvEzQ43hUDme3Nr8isBsc20Zw5BF7i13txt42CGuVLdRo9ygdZYqQL8Ns&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2f7274d414a2db82141623f5a818f694&oe=5DE8AC8D)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64224561_2247395011962501_4522651689978691584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQmTDOw9kBNw98varMm4OgTpB6-yOTLATCKeE60wRKV1xN5snRkms0TGibHXjRddaeY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0af676bbd348b08b8b5a3c242c7ac7fe&oe=5DD4E9AE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 13, 2019, 06:43:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2019, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 12, 2019, 01:40:05 PM
Wait, the 14th amendment?  The American Right has been moving toward the idea the 14th amendment needs to be removed.  Hell, Trump has claimed he can get rid of it with an executive order.

Frankly I am always happy when they play the "19th century Democrats were evil" card by saying all those progressive things were good and the Confederacy was bad. We can at least agree on those things.

Somehow I don't think they are that keen on giving back all the territory that Democrats acquired in the 19th century.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 13, 2019, 09:58:56 PM
Could somebody please explain all the endless benefits and advantages of being an undocumented immigrant? Because it seems like it would suck tremendously.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 14, 2019, 04:20:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2019, 09:58:56 PM
Could somebody please explain all the endless benefits and advantages of being an undocumented immigrant? Because it seems like it would suck tremendously.

You are clearly not following the posts of Syt's sister: the more illegally you are in the US, the more benefits you receive from the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 14, 2019, 04:25:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2019, 09:58:56 PM
Could somebody please explain all the endless benefits and advantages of being an undocumented immigrant? Because it seems like it would suck tremendously.

Approximately 11 million people seem to have thought it was preferable to the alternative.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 14, 2019, 04:34:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2019, 09:58:56 PM
Could somebody please explain all the endless benefits and advantages of being an undocumented immigrant? Because it seems like it would suck tremendously.

Less paperwork I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 14, 2019, 08:50:06 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2019, 09:58:56 PM
Could somebody please explain all the endless benefits and advantages of being an undocumented immigrant? Because it seems like it would suck tremendously.

It's all relative. Compared to starvation or being murdered by Guatemalan drug gangs it has its advantages.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 15, 2019, 01:49:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68663793_2998592940181997_2637253642234626048_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQnuTCru8xoXiqkJSO9KPeaHnGEZXjXjOKOqf7DejgDRi8lBUPWLKh8llhtCqmAmlKE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b0858f17d4da362586fdef37d2c2c78a&oe=5DDE3622)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2019, 09:18:35 AM
I am glad somebody is putting to rest this nonsense that the Democrats are for open borders. Thanks Liz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 15, 2019, 03:53:37 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67180453_431905090989093_5310134257232904192_n.png?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQkmsgH6n1z6X7J_ixRb__NHJforI_srSeartGzcNzHPpyUN_Qfo5asbue2ExURfpM8&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=99c3296f2a5bb6b84659346d64c87da9&oe=5DCC63BE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on August 15, 2019, 03:58:10 PM
Imagine just...believing that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on August 15, 2019, 04:22:44 PM
Before or after boasting that he now owned the highest building in Manhattan?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on August 15, 2019, 07:13:01 PM
It's impressive how much is factually wrong in even the little details too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on August 15, 2019, 08:08:38 PM
Quote from: frunk on August 15, 2019, 07:13:01 PM
It's impressive how much is factually wrong in even the little details too.
Not as sad as how many people are too gullible and will believe it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 15, 2019, 09:09:31 PM
Two obvious giveaways there.  First, the idea that he paid workers.  Second that he paid for something out of his own pocket.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2019, 11:10:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46493765_1969818793095912_528731601081729024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQl7srUKs4utazcXNrShOUMlqi6_J6FP-ruZ7wBaTQHZSJzT_Uy-0mhW7ftbpLvpYyg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=eb9775bbd3bde4354e28d1d360d3995e&oe=5DD33BF2)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67960009_2406584752723560_6715387980992741376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQnYIIB6wafCLyL6KwqMYPUTRYKcCtJ9k3jIttTfk0wtrlSGAD2LLGNtc3DdjX3E0nQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=946a264cdebba24a6a59411ce74c283d&oe=5DDEBB7C)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19510148_1406991496016390_1674599037877761484_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQmvjq6UHWH9B-3t2RsUMpn8wSNeQWVUC9g0uGWpgmMranMI8n9hYUdbzZ91eqvsv28&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a8f3ba7b2d4a5facf909459055add672&oe=5DCD6E9F)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66651234_3142136709129876_2160855393020936192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQlBKCCx1-sCtbXTjHH7gTgGKUvm08Sn740W0oyHpHsjyMTy4GDSIzN5kf3LNIH7quo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=681f95f35fc597221d695547fd18889a&oe=5DDC9515)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 16, 2019, 02:58:07 PM
It does sadden me a bit that Gallagher has become a communist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 16, 2019, 03:04:18 PM
Weird that the University of Melbourne is now in the US.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 16, 2019, 03:35:52 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 16, 2019, 03:04:18 PM
Weird that the University of Melbourne is now in the US.  :hmm:

It is what gave Trump the idea of buying Greenland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 16, 2019, 05:32:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 16, 2019, 03:04:18 PM
Weird that the University of Melbourne is now in the US.  :hmm:

Almost like the word "our" can apply to countries other than America.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 16, 2019, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 16, 2019, 05:32:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 16, 2019, 03:04:18 PM
Weird that the University of Melbourne is now in the US.  :hmm:

Almost like the word "our" can apply to countries other than America.  :wacko:

What an odd use of the word "our"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2019, 05:44:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 16, 2019, 02:58:07 PM
It does sadden me a bit that Gallagher has become a communist.
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 16, 2019, 05:53:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 16, 2019, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 16, 2019, 05:32:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 16, 2019, 03:04:18 PM
Weird that the University of Melbourne is now in the US.  :hmm:

Almost like the word "our" can apply to countries other than America.  :wacko:

What an odd use of the word "our"

Australian meme writers need work too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 17, 2019, 05:57:57 PM
It all comes from Russia anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 17, 2019, 07:01:09 PM
Nah. Sometimes it's grammatically correct.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 18, 2019, 12:10:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53030531_2084873918214612_1244602263054319616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmMbUJX3-SegBoRDJVG6ifIrTay2pC3XE_9Ry-OcTpulzLYZpM7dIjzM0AGFt-mMF4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=967d2a6fe7ca8c3892e0427c83929df8&oe=5DDC2621)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 18, 2019, 03:06:24 AM
Odd to specify for England.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on August 18, 2019, 06:05:42 AM
QuoteOdd to specify for England.
Or prescient.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 18, 2019, 06:20:59 AM
Untrue too. But that never stops them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 18, 2019, 11:35:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68482509_2633269800030036_1543966302538825728_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQk8lX60oyFiqmtx5HA2_IDN7bN7-Eymxvwv17zh7G4IQknmpjjH8n4yARFNQXsfPjA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=14953e8d33efb3e9d0d01a282a55dd21&oe=5DD5962B)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69182134_10219525609026554_5904531145151741952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQkiblsd0u62uZheYFQP9wqSC1o9h82hRl8-FRrZYyGnKCm5SXNUsRkr3sv-1VntqeM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7d78fc4930c3f59e5f8527dd87e05d3f&oe=5E0E0943)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68448625_2611664555511212_2937700189571383296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQnm2uKS1-aZX1B6JDINhLZrR-A_Dbjc1Wi1cN4Xj7GHRC4d_taBXZwG7wMnFhMUfUY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3569a4b71df33c51022696bef9659c76&oe=5E15EABF)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13920942_1742349682671402_7522200151605389746_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQkIfH76gWg6p2eQn_yJ75M_3VZEH7Ieu41x9t26D7lzZTZJpIUEqACvr4tniUuBdXI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ac6661cb5947a0145683f0fc6aeecd6f&oe=5E0F58D6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 18, 2019, 01:14:29 PM
I wouldn't say that we've been having a race war, but I don't think the message of that last one is folly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 18, 2019, 03:07:57 PM
I liked the contrast with, "Well, we whites aren't the ones in gangs, rioting or looting."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2019, 05:51:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 18, 2019, 03:07:57 PM
I liked the contrast with, "Well, we whites aren't the ones in gangs, rioting or looting."

Notice that that one at least didn't have the indecency to claim that "we whites" weren't engaged in mass murder.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 19, 2019, 01:04:12 AM
Are you engaged in mass murder, Grumbler? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 19, 2019, 01:21:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67923270_346956822915965_3466329630561009664_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQkWsjUjTYxfh7VtvoN68YjYt_2cLo7eKqiY07JGjzQiYoj63Pzv2wYP5pKQphGfoes&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ad175724d8992326a982fd11affadd8e&oe=5DC8A06E)

The sister posting this is mother to a trans man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 19, 2019, 03:47:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 19, 2019, 01:21:03 AM


The sister posting this is mother to a trans man.

Then I guess she has a valuable experience in that field.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 19, 2019, 08:12:17 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 19, 2019, 01:04:12 AM
Are you engaged in mass murder, Grumbler? :unsure:

Nope, and I don't think of myself as "we whites," either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 19, 2019, 08:17:54 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 19, 2019, 01:21:03 AM
The sister posting this is mother to a trans man.

So she is saying that she thinks Donald Trump is a racist then? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 19, 2019, 10:35:17 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61900731_2313211285427263_8825735348886700032_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmV8-ElMBQXezSy3dl-REPgQ9-pXUsj0ZZLU-V0Tb_736uQOjAwuGUaNion3_8K-vc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=498c95deee284a19915e538e556a729d&oe=5E15351F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 19, 2019, 10:38:01 AM
Rapist lying on Trump?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on August 19, 2019, 10:40:17 AM
Good ol' whataboutism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 19, 2019, 11:01:13 AM
Has he forgotten hat Trump was part of that industry?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 19, 2019, 11:10:54 AM
Wait ... Rob Reiner is a rapist???
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 20, 2019, 07:01:38 AM
It's some busy days recently.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69022103_684353482031947_607305906048204800_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQnocptnSUVCOf1htoljr3i9JV9pFBZmhM4PBsUXaAMnJkeYCdAnIywvRuAYJHFbwDM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3e821decd2e2baa15c754a0c61524c36&oe=5DDA778E)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66396687_333296727615778_1827274109298409472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQmVrKcaBtzmScl0S-96LqRuUL2KZLg5LFRgpTqQB-Fj_4kf5tHH7mtz_wp5k3_CzPQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4248ad51bbbfb9b6eea7d3d6c40058a9&oe=5DD2A726)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54729752_2040672932694572_7124235985302323200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQk88KQ698CjiRdToC5h1R_s0huC8h0qQXuhBQK5A3QpqkgZyXCE29oW5voPHYLweDk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=02058e42b1575f34bcb2de5efb3b0f46&oe=5DC9B796)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 20, 2019, 07:07:26 AM
You really need to cleanse your facebook friends list.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on August 20, 2019, 07:25:59 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 20, 2019, 07:07:26 AM
You really need to cleanse your facebook friends list.

It's all from his direct and extended family, IIRC, hard to cut ties with those.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on August 20, 2019, 07:34:11 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 20, 2019, 07:25:59 AM

It's all from his direct and extended family, IIRC, hard to cut ties with those.

Facebook ties? Not that hard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on August 20, 2019, 07:35:15 AM
We'd lose a priceless connection to the ugly underbelly of American domestic reactionary extremism, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 20, 2019, 07:37:39 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 20, 2019, 07:35:15 AM
We'd lose a priceless connection to the ugly underbelly of American domestic reactionary extremism, though.

There's https://www.reddit.com/r/insanepeoplefacebook/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 20, 2019, 08:23:48 AM
QuoteOH HELL NO
Like Page

August 15 at 11:12 PM ·

OH HELL NO...

Checking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the much older lady that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags are not good for the environment.

The woman apologized to the young girl and explained, "We didn't have this 'green thing' back in my earlier days."

The young clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations."

The older lady said that she was right -- our generation didn't have the "green thing" in its day. The older lady went on to explain:

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled. But we didn't have the "green thing" back in our day.

Grocery stores bagged our groceries in brown paper bags that we reused for numerous things. Most memorable besides household garbage bags was the use of brown paper bags as book covers for our school books. This was to ensure that public property (the books provided for our use by the school) was not defaced by our scribblings. Then we were able to personalize our books on the brown paper bags. But, too bad we didn't do the "green thing" back then.

We walked up stairs because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the "green thing" in our day.
Back then we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 220 volts. Wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.

But that young lady is right; we didn't have the "green thing" back in our day.

Back then we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana. In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right; we didn't have the "green thing" back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blade in a r azor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the "green thing" back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service in the family's $45,000 SUV or van, which cost what a whole house did before the"green thing." We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 23,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest burger joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the "green thing" back then?

Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smart ass young person.

We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off... Especially from a tattooed, multiple pierced smartass who can't make change without the cash register telling them how much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 20, 2019, 08:58:57 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 20, 2019, 07:35:15 AM
We'd lose a priceless connection to the ugly underbelly of American domestic reactionary extremism, though.


Easy to replace.  Step one tune into Fox.  And there you are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 20, 2019, 11:10:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 20, 2019, 07:01:38 AM


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66396687_333296727615778_1827274109298409472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQmVrKcaBtzmScl0S-96LqRuUL2KZLg5LFRgpTqQB-Fj_4kf5tHH7mtz_wp5k3_CzPQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4248ad51bbbfb9b6eea7d3d6c40058a9&oe=5DD2A726)



Okay'll do that.  But here's the catch.  Any American conservative who had an ancestor come into the country during the days open borders must leave.  So you know, anyone prior to 1875
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 20, 2019, 11:18:51 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 20, 2019, 11:10:26 AM
Okay'll do that.  But here's the catch.  Any American conservative who had an ancestor come into the country during the days open borders must leave.  So you know, anyone prior to 1875

I'm good, then :cool:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 20, 2019, 01:38:13 PM
Raz, don't fight stupid with stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 20, 2019, 01:43:28 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 20, 2019, 11:18:51 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 20, 2019, 11:10:26 AM
Okay'll do that.  But here's the catch.  Any American conservative who had an ancestor come into the country during the days open borders must leave.  So you know, anyone prior to 1875

I'm good, then :cool:

We following the one drop rule? I gotta believe someone in your line is a newbie
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 20, 2019, 02:10:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 20, 2019, 01:38:13 PM
Raz, don't fight stupid with stupid.

He's just taking a page from most of the Democratic candidates for President.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 20, 2019, 02:12:13 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 20, 2019, 01:43:28 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 20, 2019, 11:18:51 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 20, 2019, 11:10:26 AM
Okay'll do that.  But here's the catch.  Any American conservative who had an ancestor come into the country during the days open borders must leave.  So you know, anyone prior to 1875

I'm good, then :cool:

We following the one drop rule? I gotta believe someone in your line is a newbie

Oops, misread Raz :Embarrass:

My most recent immigrant ancestor got here in 1791.  Most of my bloodlines were in North America prior to 1700.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on August 20, 2019, 02:30:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 20, 2019, 08:58:57 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 20, 2019, 07:35:15 AM
We'd lose a priceless connection to the ugly underbelly of American domestic reactionary extremism, though.

Easy to replace.  Step one tune into Fox.  And there you are.

Fortunately for me, I don't have Fox at my tv.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 20, 2019, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 20, 2019, 01:38:13 PM
Raz, don't fight stupid with stupid.


It's snarky way of saying that most Americans are descended from people who came here during the era of Open Borders.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 20, 2019, 02:46:16 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68806874_1219671208213417_8965081697334853632_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQl8y7Vr_StYmTuMYoT2GgYf4zGnaoqCrM_mVKdnERiZWV3xLHp_oouIuYhUHH6qmpk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=13458e523e8da138ec90bd6c8eb2a15e&oe=5DDF7078)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 20, 2019, 02:51:26 PM
wait, the nfl is on his side? Kapernick is still not playing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 20, 2019, 03:01:09 PM
Loving one's guns has gotta be very uncomfortable if they have iron sights.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 20, 2019, 03:07:27 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 20, 2019, 02:30:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 20, 2019, 08:58:57 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 20, 2019, 07:35:15 AM
We'd lose a priceless connection to the ugly underbelly of American domestic reactionary extremism, though.

Easy to replace.  Step one tune into Fox.  And there you are.

Fortunately for me, I don't have Fox at my tv.  :lol:

Then we will keep this thread for you  :)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 20, 2019, 07:10:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 20, 2019, 03:01:09 PM
Loving one's guns has gotta be very uncomfortable if they have iron sights.
Iron sights or not, it's very important to pull out in time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 21, 2019, 11:37:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67709397_2338022159566452_2008264288849887232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQkKeLkg1UqZZtXudzuXzYaz3om4ONDHmjEelQScW_jZT-ThbC9qA52poi9Tx7zGH30&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1fe75b020c1a6269290fb378c44b545e&oe=5DD0886F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 21, 2019, 11:47:25 AM
I did NOT know the USA was under Sharia law!  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 21, 2019, 11:57:50 AM
Pretty sure that is unconstitutional and North Carolina did not such thing. Doing something that would otherwise be legal is now illegal if you do it because of your religion?

I thought they wanted more God in society.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 21, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2019, 11:57:50 AM
Pretty sure that is unconstitutional and North Carolina did not such thing. Doing something that would otherwise be legal is now illegal if you do it because of your religion is now illegal?

Separation of religion and state? :P ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 21, 2019, 11:59:43 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 21, 2019, 11:47:25 AM
I did NOT know the USA was under Sharia law!  :huh:

As far as I know you can follow whatever creed you want so long as it does not conflict with American law. But it seems if you donate 2.5% of your income to charity the North Carolina Cops are going to arrest you. NO ZAKAT HERE SIR!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 21, 2019, 12:01:13 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 21, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2019, 11:57:50 AM
Pretty sure that is unconstitutional and North Carolina did not such thing. Doing something that would otherwise be legal is now illegal if you do it because of your religion is now illegal?

Separation of religion and state? :P ;)

IT MEANS FREEDOM OF RELIGION NOT FREEDOM FROM RELIGION!!!111

Except when it does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 21, 2019, 12:49:37 PM
I can't remember what it is but that map looks like it is from someone I used to use a couple decades ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 21, 2019, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2019, 11:57:50 AM
Pretty sure that is unconstitutional and North Carolina did not such thing. Doing something that would otherwise be legal is now illegal if you do it because of your religion?

I thought they wanted more God in society.

Eh, not even sure what they mean. Certainly, the attempt to *enforce* sharia law would be illegal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 21, 2019, 01:10:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2019, 11:57:50 AM
Pretty sure that is unconstitutional and North Carolina did not such thing. Doing something that would otherwise be legal is now illegal if you do it because of your religion?

I thought they wanted more God in society.

Not that God.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 21, 2019, 01:12:25 PM
Moon god??!?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 21, 2019, 02:12:41 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 21, 2019, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2019, 11:57:50 AM
Pretty sure that is unconstitutional and North Carolina did not such thing. Doing something that would otherwise be legal is now illegal if you do it because of your religion?

I thought they wanted more God in society.

Eh, not even sure what they mean. Certainly, the attempt to *enforce* sharia law would be illegal.

Yeah. Absolutely.

But surely that also would be unconstitutional by federal law already.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 21, 2019, 07:01:40 PM
I believe that there are jurisdictions where one can engage in legally binding arbitration where the arbiters use Sharia principles to decide the case, should both sides agree to this.  Perhaps this weird claim about North Carolina had something to do with that.  Or, maybe, it's just some stupid made-up shit to go along with all the other stupid made-up shit the American right masturbates to these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 21, 2019, 08:31:25 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 21, 2019, 07:01:40 PM
I believe that there are jurisdictions where one can engage in legally binding arbitration where the arbiters use Sharia principles to decide the case, should both sides agree to this.  Perhaps this weird claim about North Carolina had something to do with that. 
bingo!  it dates from 6 years ago, though.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/north-carolina-sharia/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/north-carolina-sharia/)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 22, 2019, 02:57:08 PM
So, you're voluntary arbitration? That don't impress me much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 22, 2019, 08:29:28 PM
OK Shania
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 23, 2019, 06:50:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13876268_679453225537127_5409120475099804397_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQnsR4bZVC1sH66kQYzpYkrXQxqJHMfTXvNoFgNUJ16DE5UDpYZO3V0L26thcN41zeE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3b230c7e2d19ed4bcccb188b934d2275&oe=5DC7C66B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 23, 2019, 06:50:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13876268_679453225537127_5409120475099804397_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQnsR4bZVC1sH66kQYzpYkrXQxqJHMfTXvNoFgNUJ16DE5UDpYZO3V0L26thcN41zeE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3b230c7e2d19ed4bcccb188b934d2275&oe=5DC7C66B)

I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 23, 2019, 07:08:21 AM
Yeah, it does sound to me like a fair point.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 23, 2019, 09:14:31 AM
QuoteI'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.
The African American thing always seemed weird to me.
Especially given the stories I've heard of actual African immigrants not being included under it.

Quote from: Syt on August 20, 2019, 08:23:48 AM
QuoteOH HELL NO
Like Page
without the cash register telling them how much.

...huh?
Wasn't it the old lady in the fictional story that said they didn't have the green thing?
I'm not getting this one at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 23, 2019, 11:45:27 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 11, 2019, 01:06:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 11, 2019, 12:36:58 AM
Yeah well anytime they feel like they have something on one of them, they can ask our beloved President to prosecute.

I don't think the President of UT has that power.
President of Languish then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.

Yeah I never understood why "African-American" was used than just saying "Black"

Besides there was a time when you knew exactly who that term referred to, but now we have so many immigrants from Africa that it gets confusing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 23, 2019, 12:20:16 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 23, 2019, 11:45:27 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 11, 2019, 01:06:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 11, 2019, 12:36:58 AM
Yeah well anytime they feel like they have something on one of them, they can ask our beloved President to prosecute.

I don't think the President of UT has that power.
President of Languish then?

You rang?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 23, 2019, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.

Yeah I never understood why "African-American" was used than just saying "Black"

Besides there was a time when you knew exactly who that term referred to, but now we have so many immigrants from Africa that it gets confusing.

Well, actually, that's the point--it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans.  Sort of like "Irish-American" distinguishes Americans with Irish ancestors from people in Ireland.

Also, I'm not sure when the term "African-American" came into use, but I think it might have dated back to a time when calling someone "black" was almost as rude as calling them the n-word.

I can certainly see garbon's father's point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 01:27:56 PM
Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.

Yeah I never understood why "African-American" was used than just saying "Black"

Besides there was a time when you knew exactly who that term referred to, but now we have so many immigrants from Africa that it gets confusing.

Well, actually, that's the point--it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans.  Sort of like "Irish-American" distinguishes Americans with Irish ancestors from people in Ireland.

Also, I'm not sure when the term "African-American" came into use, but I think it might have dated back to a time when calling someone "black" was almost as rude as calling them the n-word.

I can certainly see garbon's father's point.

If you're from Nigeria or Uganda you're not really an American?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 01:27:56 PM
Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.

Yeah I never understood why "African-American" was used than just saying "Black"

Besides there was a time when you knew exactly who that term referred to, but now we have so many immigrants from Africa that it gets confusing.

Well, actually, that's the point--it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans.  Sort of like "Irish-American" distinguishes Americans with Irish ancestors from people in Ireland.

Also, I'm not sure when the term "African-American" came into use, but I think it might have dated back to a time when calling someone "black" was almost as rude as calling them the n-word.

I can certainly see garbon's father's point.

If you're from Nigeria or Uganda you're not really an American?

Huh?

If you are from Nigeria and are an American, then you could be called a "Nigerian-American". But if you are from Nigeria and not an American, then no, you are not really an American.

I don't understand the confusion here...

Nor do I understand black people not liking being called "African-American". On the other hand, I don't understand them not liking being called "black" or "colored". Hell, I don't really understand any of the social rules around what to call minorities.

But I don't really have to understand - not really. I am pretty happy calling them whatever term they prefer to be called, within reason. That seems to be just simple politeness. And if it changes over time, that's ok too - it doesn't seem like such a burden to adjust.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 01:36:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 01:27:56 PM
Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.

Yeah I never understood why "African-American" was used than just saying "Black"

Besides there was a time when you knew exactly who that term referred to, but now we have so many immigrants from Africa that it gets confusing.

Well, actually, that's the point--it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans.  Sort of like "Irish-American" distinguishes Americans with Irish ancestors from people in Ireland.

Also, I'm not sure when the term "African-American" came into use, but I think it might have dated back to a time when calling someone "black" was almost as rude as calling them the n-word.

I can certainly see garbon's father's point.

If you're from Nigeria or Uganda you're not really an American?

Huh?

If you are from Nigeria and are an American, then you could be called a "Nigerian-American". But if you are from Nigeria and not an American, then no, you are not really an American.

I don't understand the confusion here...


"it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans. " Many Americans from Nigeria or Uganda are black, it just seemed more likely to me that it was the American part that differed and not the black part.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 01:36:46 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
I am pretty happy calling them whatever term they prefer to be called

Except they use both terms and disagree on what is the best term to use.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 23, 2019, 01:40:42 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:31:53 PM

Nor do I understand black people not liking being called "African-American". On the other hand, I don't understand them not liking being called "black" or "colored". Hell, I don't really understand any of the social rules around what to call minorities.

But I don't really have to understand - not really. I am pretty happy calling them whatever term they prefer to be called, within reason. That seems to be just simple politeness. And if it changes over time, that's ok too - it doesn't seem like such a burden to adjust.

Well, the problem can be that when the "rulss" about what is appropriate and polite to call someone change, it's not like they get posted somewhere.  When I was a kid, a lot of older people referred to black people as "colored".  That had been the polite term to use for roughly the first half of the 20th century (as in NAACP--National Association for the Advancement of Colored People).  But by the 1970s, black people, especially younger ones, tended to not like the term and preferred to be called black, which as I mentioned had previously been considered almost as insulting as the n-word.  A lot of white folks, especially older ones, didn't get that memo, and continued to use "colored" and wondered why people got offended.

EDIT: also, what Valmy said.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 02:12:57 PM
Are Nigerian-Americans African-Americans?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 02:15:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 02:12:57 PM
Are Nigerian-Americans African-Americans?

I am not sure :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 02:18:21 PM
I miss Adebisi. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:

Why? I mean it is not a big deal but the fact there is not really a term that describes the descendants of the enslaved people in the US only has been a thing for awhile.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 23, 2019, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:

Why? I mean it is not a big deal but the fact there is not really a term that describes the descendants of the enslaved people in the US only has been a thing for awhile.

Why would you seek a separate word for descendants of slaves? I am sure most people had some slaves among their ancestors somewhere down the line, as it was a pretty common practice.

It reminds me a bit of the "third generation immigrant" BS in Western Europe. Of my generation in Hungary and especially the previous one, I am sure a LOT were third-generation immigrants of Slavs and Germans, but nobody gave a damn because they happened to fit in to the picture skin-colour wise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 23, 2019, 03:35:32 PM
Why would you seek a separate word for descendants of slaves? I am sure most people had some slaves among their ancestors somewhere down the line, as it was a pretty common practice.

Heh. I meant this specific group of people that has their own culture and history and are a very important part of this country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 23, 2019, 07:23:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:43:13 PM
Heh. I meant this specific group of people that has their own culture and history and are a very important part of this country.

Except that they have a number of different cultures and histories.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 23, 2019, 11:38:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:

Why? I mean it is not a big deal but the fact there is not really a term that describes the descendants of the enslaved people in the US only has been a thing for awhile.

But not every black American is a descendent of those who were held in slavery in American.  There were always a number of free blacks in the US, and there are black people who came to the US after the abolition of slavery.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2019, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 11:38:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:

Why? I mean it is not a big deal but the fact there is not really a term that describes the descendants of the enslaved people in the US only has been a thing for awhile.

But not every black American is a descendent of those who were held in slavery in American.  There were always a number of free blacks in the US, and there are black people who came to the US after the abolition of slavery.

Even if they were free blacks they were still part of that society and culture.

And yes I am aware there are now huge numbers of black people who are, or are descended from, more recent immigrants, that was my entire point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 24, 2019, 01:14:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 24, 2019, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 11:38:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:

Why? I mean it is not a big deal but the fact there is not really a term that describes the descendants of the enslaved people in the US only has been a thing for awhile.

But not every black American is a descendent of those who were held in slavery in American.  There were always a number of free blacks in the US, and there are black people who came to the US after the abolition of slavery.

Even if they were free blacks they were still part of that society and culture.

And yes I am aware there are now huge numbers of black people who are, or are descended from, more recent immigrants, that was my entire point.

Excuse me if I missed your point.

Actually, I'm not sure exactly what point I was trying to make.

Oh, I remember.  We were discussing how confusing it can be to find the correct term to refer to Americans of African descent without offending anyone, and I was trying to say that whether or not a particular such American was a descendant of slaves was not relevant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 24, 2019, 01:28:12 AM
Is Swedish chef with US passport Marcus Samuelsson African-American? While Nigerian-American (for instance) often would correctly suggest a black person Swedish-American (what Samuelsson is) might not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 24, 2019, 02:25:29 AM
Americans are so weird with the whole black thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2019, 07:00:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 24, 2019, 02:25:29 AM
Americans are so weird with the whole black thing.

Maybe white people on the whole black thing. ^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 24, 2019, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 01:27:56 PM
Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.

Yeah I never understood why "African-American" was used than just saying "Black"

Besides there was a time when you knew exactly who that term referred to, but now we have so many immigrants from Africa that it gets confusing.

Well, actually, that's the point--it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans.  Sort of like "Irish-American" distinguishes Americans with Irish ancestors from people in Ireland.

Also, I'm not sure when the term "African-American" came into use, but I think it might have dated back to a time when calling someone "black" was almost as rude as calling them the n-word.

I can certainly see garbon's father's point.

If you're from Nigeria or Uganda you're not really an American?

Huh?

If you are from Nigeria and are an American, then you could be called a "Nigerian-American". But if you are from Nigeria and not an American, then no, you are not really an American.

I don't understand the confusion here...

Nor do I understand black people not liking being called "African-American". On the other hand, I don't understand them not liking being called "black" or "colored". Hell, I don't really understand any of the social rules around what to call minorities.

But I don't really have to understand - not really. I am pretty happy calling them whatever term they prefer to be called, within reason. That seems to be just simple politeness. And if it changes over time, that's ok too - it doesn't seem like such a burden to adjust.

Why would I call anyone that? Why would I need to?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2019, 01:10:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2019, 07:00:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 24, 2019, 02:25:29 AM
Americans are so weird with the whole black thing.

Maybe white people on the whole black thing. ^_^

My impression is it was black people who did the continual changing of what's acceptable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 24, 2019, 01:42:13 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 24, 2019, 12:54:02 PM
Why would I call anyone that? Why would I need to?

"How would you describe the suspect?"  :P

I tease, but really a serious question.

My personal anecdote on the topic...

One time at work, a more senior NCO (who was black) was asking me where someone who had recently passed me, referred to by name, had gone to.  I didn't know the person's name, but I said someone had recently passed.  The aforementioned NCO asked me to describe that person.  While I started to fumble over my consciousness of political correctness while trying to eake out "African-American", he impatiently asked "was he black?".  To which I meekly/white-ly affirmed in the positive.  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 24, 2019, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2019, 07:00:36 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 24, 2019, 02:25:29 AM
Americans are so weird with the whole black thing.

Maybe white people on the whole black thing. ^_^

Again you started this whole thing by talking about your dad and his issues with the terminology. What is the non-weird way to think about it? Since you seem to know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 24, 2019, 04:47:34 PM
Blackstreet's black, alright!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 24, 2019, 11:41:37 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/1174492_328232237323598_591472907_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQndWvEqK7wJkG_5BMxC8hmynFsEHjCXuHaKWPrFlJf6OHVz7AwC_mX25M37kI6wd70&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dd8213e9d2f0860ea3c17f99b507b4e9&oe=5D63DB00)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 25, 2019, 03:32:23 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 24, 2019, 01:28:12 AM
Is Swedish chef with US passport Marcus Samuelsson African-American? While Nigerian-American (for instance) often would correctly suggest a black person Swedish-American (what Samuelsson is) might not.

Swedish chef?  Muppet-American, obviously.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 25, 2019, 10:47:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 24, 2019, 11:41:37 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/1174492_328232237323598_591472907_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQndWvEqK7wJkG_5BMxC8hmynFsEHjCXuHaKWPrFlJf6OHVz7AwC_mX25M37kI6wd70&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dd8213e9d2f0860ea3c17f99b507b4e9&oe=5D63DB00)

Yet they feel the need to constantly whine about everything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 26, 2019, 12:07:06 AM
Whining is an essential part of the human condition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 26, 2019, 09:49:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67522341_1069248949931790_5118145873322180608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmWzxq4yRxu7Pxw3BFeCKQtFAV7KXrXSzW4bEKH-GT6je5MOGoHjJ1ODJVGUTyc6z4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=bfda097e44c51a5a200a690e8d2b0b44&oe=5DC96ABA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on August 26, 2019, 09:52:04 AM
 :lol: I think that must be satire, right? Given what it implies about Trump?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on August 26, 2019, 09:52:59 AM
I assume the image is some sort of meme, but I don't get it at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2019, 10:36:37 AM
Even the memes I do get I never understand what the hell they have to do with the text.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 26, 2019, 02:51:48 PM
Wait, George W. Bush was a business man.  So was Hoover.  I don't think Hoover was elected to any office until he ran for the Presidency.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 02:59:25 PM
Bush Sr., JC, Truman, plenty of presidents were in business.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 26, 2019, 03:01:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 02:59:25 PM
Bush Sr., JC, Truman, plenty of presidents were in business.


Oh, Yeah.  Forgot that Carter had a peanut farm and Truman was a haberdasher.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 26, 2019, 03:22:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 26, 2019, 03:01:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 02:59:25 PM
Bush Sr., JC, Truman, plenty of presidents were in business.


Oh, Yeah.  Forgot that Carter had a peanut farm and Truman was a haberdasher.

Haberdasher is such an awesome word.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 26, 2019, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 03:38:42 PM
It is almost a slur the way it is used. "White dudes" is never used as a positive. It is definitely used to dehumanize and demonize.


That's the point.

White men in the US have, for the entirety of modern history, used terms like "black boy", "white bitch", "sissy boy", etc., to dehumanize POC, LGBTQ, and women. When they've been asked not to do that, they cried FREE SPEECH! and political correctedness going too far. Now, it's being used against them for the first time in a similar slur... and white men don't like it much.

Rough, ain't it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 26, 2019, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 03:38:42 PM
It is almost a slur the way it is used. "White dudes" is never used as a positive. It is definitely used to dehumanize and demonize.


That's the point.

White men in the US have, for the entirety of modern history, used terms like "black boy", "white bitch", "sissy boy", etc., to dehumanize POC, LGBTQ, and women. When they've been asked not to do that, they cried FREE SPEECH! and political correctedness going too far. Now, it's being used against them for the first time in a similar slur... and white men don't like it much.

Rough, ain't it?

I am sure a great many people have used a great many of slurs over the many eras of history.

I didn't realize that was something we should emulate.

But I see that was the intention, I was not aware that was the intention.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 26, 2019, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 26, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
I am sure a great many people have used a great many of slurs over the many eras of history.

I didn't realize that was something we should emulate.

But I see that was the intention, I was not aware that was the intention.

Of course it isn't. But asking white men to stop their crap hasn't worked. Instead, it's created a battle cry for the stubborn majority that Political Correctness is to blame for curbing their tongue. Those evil Liberal Free Speech deniers!

But this? Guys aren't liking it much. They're getting upset. They're feeling the pinch of their very being suddenly being a negative, a slur. Things they have absolutely no control over is being mocked and spat on.. And yeah... it sucks. It's awful. It absolutely shouldn't be happening.

Maybe the guys should have listened when we said stop it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 26, 2019, 05:28:36 PM
The white guys?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 26, 2019, 05:43:56 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 26, 2019, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 26, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
I am sure a great many people have used a great many of slurs over the many eras of history.

I didn't realize that was something we should emulate.

But I see that was the intention, I was not aware that was the intention.

Of course it isn't. But asking white men to stop their crap hasn't worked. Instead, it's created a battle cry for the stubborn majority that Political Correctness is to blame for curbing their tongue. Those evil Liberal Free Speech deniers!

But this? Guys aren't liking it much. They're getting upset. They're feeling the pinch of their very being suddenly being a negative, a slur. Things they have absolutely no control over is being mocked and spat on.. And yeah... it sucks. It's awful. It absolutely shouldn't be happening.

Maybe the guys should have listened when we said stop it.

It is a constant mystery to me why so many people, left and right, are so certain that the great liberal experiment in encouraging civility has been an abject failure and we should abandon it.

Given that the victims of a naked, uncivil factional struggle are likely to be those with the least power in our society - and we are constantly told (and it makes sense) that white men have the most power - it would seem to be a bad idea to normalize incivility. Unless of course you happen to wish to support the cause of the continued dominance of white men.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 06:19:37 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 26, 2019, 05:10:33 PM
Of course it isn't. But asking white men to stop their crap hasn't worked. Instead, it's created a battle cry for the stubborn majority that Political Correctness is to blame for curbing their tongue. Those evil Liberal Free Speech deniers!

But this? Guys aren't liking it much. They're getting upset. They're feeling the pinch of their very being suddenly being a negative, a slur. Things they have absolutely no control over is being mocked and spat on.. And yeah... it sucks. It's awful. It absolutely shouldn't be happening.

Maybe the guys should have listened when we said stop it.

The problem that I have, and that others seem to as well, as that "white men," "they" and "the guys" paints everyone with the same brush.

I would prefer a world in which your beef is with those people that do things that offend you, not with people who belong to the same group as people who offend you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 26, 2019, 06:50:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 06:19:37 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 26, 2019, 05:10:33 PM
Of course it isn't. But asking white men to stop their crap hasn't worked. Instead, it's created a battle cry for the stubborn majority that Political Correctness is to blame for curbing their tongue. Those evil Liberal Free Speech deniers!

But this? Guys aren't liking it much. They're getting upset. They're feeling the pinch of their very being suddenly being a negative, a slur. Things they have absolutely no control over is being mocked and spat on.. And yeah... it sucks. It's awful. It absolutely shouldn't be happening.

Maybe the guys should have listened when we said stop it.

The problem that I have, and that others seem to as well, as that "white men," "they" and "the guys" paints everyone with the same brush.

I would prefer a world in which your beef is with those people that do things that offend you, not with people who belong to the same group as people who offend you.

Yeah, me too. Sure would be nice to not have to carry an entire gender on my back.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 26, 2019, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 06:19:37 PM
I would prefer a world in which your beef is with those people that do things that offend you, not with people who belong to the same group as people who offend you.

How do you address collective imbalances of power? When, say, some people insist that their behavior is perfectly reasonable, and that you are the one manufacturing offense? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 07:01:13 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 26, 2019, 06:53:47 PM
How do you address collective imbalances of power? When, say, some people insist that their behavior is perfectly reasonable, and that you are the one manufacturing offense?

How is that an imbalance of power, collective or otherwise?  I would describe that as a difference of opinion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 26, 2019, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 07:01:13 PM
How is that an imbalance of power, collective or otherwise?  I would describe that as a difference of opinion.

To take an example from the other thread: are women making a fuss out of a forced kiss a difference of opinion?

The problem with things being only matters of opinion is that it ignores that some opinions are backed with considerable more force than others. People who want to show how some majority opinions that appear neutral, are in fact reinforcing certain undesirable behavior. So, while "not all white people" are this, or that, or "not all men" are this or that, if some behavior, and opinions held in a very reasonable manner, are collectively enforced, even if through no ill will of one's own.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 08:31:11 PM
What do you mean by enforced?

And I inferred the meaning, but your final sentence is missing the independent clause.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 07:19:34 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 26, 2019, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 07:01:13 PM
How is that an imbalance of power, collective or otherwise?  I would describe that as a difference of opinion.

To take an example from the other thread: are women making a fuss out of a forced kiss a difference of opinion?

The problem with things being only matters of opinion is that it ignores that some opinions are backed with considerable more force than others. People who want to show how some majority opinions that appear neutral, are in fact reinforcing certain undesirable behavior. So, while "not all white people" are this, or that, or "not all men" are this or that, if some behavior, and opinions held in a very reasonable manner, are collectively enforced, even if through no ill will of one's own.

If stereotyping behaviour is the accepted norm, who is harmed most by it? Those with power, or those without?

The problem with "punching up" is that allowing or even encouraging people to throw punches in the end benefits those with the biggest fists.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 09:35:31 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 07:19:34 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 26, 2019, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 07:01:13 PM
How is that an imbalance of power, collective or otherwise?  I would describe that as a difference of opinion.

To take an example from the other thread: are women making a fuss out of a forced kiss a difference of opinion?

The problem with things being only matters of opinion is that it ignores that some opinions are backed with considerable more force than others. People who want to show how some majority opinions that appear neutral, are in fact reinforcing certain undesirable behavior. So, while "not all white people" are this, or that, or "not all men" are this or that, if some behavior, and opinions held in a very reasonable manner, are collectively enforced, even if through no ill will of one's own.

If stereotyping behaviour is the accepted norm, who is harmed most by it? Those with power, or those without?

The problem with "punching up" is that allowing or even encouraging people to throw punches in the end benefits those with the biggest fists.

And yet, there's demonstrable evidence that when those "below" strike, picket, otherwise disrupt what those "above" want, things change. We have a 5-day work week because those things happened. Calling out white men as a solid entity for the crap that the majority of their masses do is one method of disrupting the neat little world that white men control.

You may not agree with it much like many don't agree with Colin Kompernick, but it still forces enough discomfort for it to be noticed and at the very least addressed in some fashion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 09:35:31 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 07:19:34 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 26, 2019, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 26, 2019, 07:01:13 PM
How is that an imbalance of power, collective or otherwise?  I would describe that as a difference of opinion.

To take an example from the other thread: are women making a fuss out of a forced kiss a difference of opinion?

The problem with things being only matters of opinion is that it ignores that some opinions are backed with considerable more force than others. People who want to show how some majority opinions that appear neutral, are in fact reinforcing certain undesirable behavior. So, while "not all white people" are this, or that, or "not all men" are this or that, if some behavior, and opinions held in a very reasonable manner, are collectively enforced, even if through no ill will of one's own.

If stereotyping behaviour is the accepted norm, who is harmed most by it? Those with power, or those without?

The problem with "punching up" is that allowing or even encouraging people to throw punches in the end benefits those with the biggest fists.

And yet, there's demonstrable evidence that when those "below" strike, picket, otherwise disrupt what those "above" want, things change. We have a 5-day work week because those things happened. Calling out white men as a solid entity for the crap that the majority of their masses do is one method of disrupting the neat little world that white men control.

You may not agree with it much like many don't agree with Colin Kompernick, but it still forces enough discomfort for it to be noticed and at the very least addressed in some fashion.

I disagree that the examples you have listed (striking, picketing, and the like) are equivalent in any way to using "white man" as a term of insult.

The point of striking and picketing is to call out specific injustices or abuses caused by specific people who have the power to make a change. They also call for sympathy from outsiders, drawing attention to these abuses.

I would argue using racially and sexually charged insults is both foolish and immoral.

It is foolish, because normalizing racial and sexual insults simply invites more of the same in return. Being insulted doesn't generally cause the target to sit back and think of their wrongdoings (particularly if they, personally, have not committed any, other than by association with unearned privilege - a concept that cannot be taught by 'white men, amIrite?'). Given the accepted notion that "white men" hold the preponderance of power, encouraging a naked power struggle with insults is, quite simply, dumb. For every radical progressive out there insulting white men, there are going to be ten or fifty Trump types insulting minorities and women. Any notion that insults create good behaviour will just be lost in this noise, the end result of which is every self-defined in-group gratutitously insulting every other - sort of like what we see in the dumber types of social media right now (see: this thread). 

It is immoral because generalizing and stereotyping all for the faults of some is immoral. It is an immorality that could perhaps be justified by results--except in this case, the results would be bad and not good, for the reasons above.  It is also hypocritical to decry insults and stereotypes as unfair when directed at oneself and then employ them oneself against others. "Do unto others as you would be done by".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 27, 2019, 10:13:53 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 09:35:31 AM
And yet, there's demonstrable evidence that when those "below" strike, picket, otherwise disrupt what those "above" want, things change.
not really.  Most changes appear gradually.

Quote
The present-day concept of the relatively longer 'week-end' first arose in the industrial north of Britain in the early part of the nineteenth century[1] and was originally a voluntary arrangement between factory owners and workers allowing Saturday afternoon off from 2pm in agreement that staff would be available for work sober and refreshed on Monday morning.[7] The Oxford English Dictionary traces the first use of the term weekend to the British magazine Notes and Queries in 1879.[8]

In 1908, the first five-day workweek in the United States was instituted by a New England cotton mill so that Jewish workers would not have to work on the Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.[9]
In 1926, Henry Ford began shutting down his automotive factories for all of Saturday and Sunday. In 1929, the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America Union was the first union to demand and receive a five-day workweek. The rest of the United States slowly followed, but it was not until 1940, when a provision of the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act mandating a maximum 40-hour workweek went into effect, that the two-day weekend was adopted nationwide.[9]
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 27, 2019, 10:22:17 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

IIRC, she's older than you.  She's closer to my age--and I was born before the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 10:25:28 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

This again is a point on which we disagree. I think our society has made lots of changes. 

I am old enough to remember when gratuitous insults directed at women and minorities - to say nothing of gays - were absolutely the norm.

To take gays as an example, in my city, in my lifetime, we have gone from the cops rounding up gay men wherever they found them, driving them out to remote places, and beating the shit out of them (the "Cherry Beach Express" it was called); a time when the worst thing one guy could call another was "fag"; to the point where, now, gay weddings and the Pride Parade are a big deal.

The notion that we have resulted in "fuck all" is I think wrong. Change may be slower than one would like, but that's the nature of social change.

What worries me is that, in the age of Trump, we are regressing, not progressing. Not all change is good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

:blink:

BB, it's gotten worse. The past 5-10 years have been steadily getting worse, and it's ramped up since Trump was elected. I hear the N word by white men more now than I did as a kid. My freaking Uber drivers in Salt Lake City - all three of them - felt that it was perfectly okay to regal me with stories about how The Good Blacks are okay, but the rest of them... *shakes heads*

It was better, and now it's worse. And it continues to get worse.

So what's the solution?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:31:40 AM
Quote from: dps on August 27, 2019, 10:22:17 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

IIRC, she's older than you.  She's closer to my age--and I was born before the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed.

:mad: Am not! My birthday is Dec 1969. :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 10:25:28 AM
This again is a point on which we disagree. I think our society has made lots of changes. 

I am old enough to remember when gratuitous insults directed at women and minorities - to say nothing of gays - were absolutely the norm.

To take gays as an example, in my city, in my lifetime, we have gone from the cops rounding up gay men wherever they found them, driving them out to remote places, and beating the shit out of them (the "Cherry Beach Express" it was called); a time when the worst thing one guy could call another was "fag"; to the point where, now, gay weddings and the Pride Parade are a big deal.

The notion that we have resulted in "fuck all" is I think wrong. Change may be slower than one would like, but that's the nature of social change.

What worries me is that, in the age of Trump, we are regressing, not progressing. Not all change is good.

It's that last part that's at play here. Yes, legally, things have gotten better for the most part. Unless you're a woman, in which case the laws have steadily gotten worse. But what I'm talking about is the regression to referring to black men as "boy", or Hispanic men as "spic". And let's not even get into how women are called and treated; black women far moreso than anyone else. That language - that was pretty much gone throughout the 90s and early 00s - is now every day again. Transgender folks are regularly taken out and beaten, with an insane number of killings across the country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

:blink:

BB, it's gotten worse. The past 5-10 years have been steadily getting worse, and it's ramped up since Trump was elected. I hear the N word by white men more now than I did as a kid. My freaking Uber drivers in Salt Lake City - all three of them - felt that it was perfectly okay to regal me with stories about how The Good Blacks are okay, but the rest of them... *shakes heads*

It was better, and now it's worse. And it continues to get worse.

So what's the solution?

I can believe the last few years has seen a degradation compared to the years/decade before it, but on a longer scale the trend is still positive, and I don't think the likes of Trump can turn it around.

Doesn't mean people should just sit down and take it, obviously, but "the good ones are okay but the rest of them *shakes heads*" pretty much describes your posts here regarding white men.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: dps on August 27, 2019, 10:22:17 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

IIRC, she's older than you.  She's closer to my age--and I was born before the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed.

I knew she was somewhat older than I am - but while it's usually bad form to mention how old a woman is, that was kind of my whole point, so I downplayed it by saying she is as old as I am.  -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 27, 2019, 10:51:38 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:31:40 AM
Quote from: dps on August 27, 2019, 10:22:17 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

IIRC, she's older than you.  She's closer to my age--and I was born before the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed.

:mad: Am not! My birthday is Dec 1969. :mad:

I've heard life begins at 50.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 11:09:02 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 27, 2019, 10:51:38 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:31:40 AM
Quote from: dps on August 27, 2019, 10:22:17 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

IIRC, she's older than you.  She's closer to my age--and I was born before the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed.

:mad: Am not! My birthday is Dec 1969. :mad:

I've heard life begins at 50.  :)

Seems to be the case for me! ^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 27, 2019, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

:blink:

BB, it's gotten worse. The past 5-10 years have been steadily getting worse, and it's ramped up since Trump was elected. I hear the N word by white men more now than I did as a kid. My freaking Uber drivers in Salt Lake City - all three of them - felt that it was perfectly okay to regal me with stories about how The Good Blacks are okay, but the rest of them... *shakes heads*

It was better, and now it's worse. And it continues to get worse.

So what's the solution?

I cannot comment on what is happening in the US.  In Canada it has definitely gotten better
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
I can believe the last few years has seen a degradation compared to the years/decade before it, but on a longer scale the trend is still positive, and I don't think the likes of Trump can turn it around.

Doesn't mean people should just sit down and take it, obviously, but "the good ones are okay but the rest of them *shakes heads*" pretty much describes your posts here regarding white men.

Here's the difference: My having an issue with white men doesn't in any way directly affect them other than to feel slighted. There have been numerous white men in my life who have actively dehumanized me, most recently my former manager. The HR Director specifically told him that he was creating a hostile work environment for the women on this team. That man still has a job - in fact I believe he recently got a promotion - whereas two other women and I had to change jobs because the team was so toxic towards women.

White men getting insulted vs. it directly impacting their lives and livelihood in a demonstrable way are not comparable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 27, 2019, 11:15:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.

Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how women - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of men, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.

Quote from: The Larch on September 16, 2013, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 16, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
I am not sure where the bigotry part comes from Larch. So I trolled on about religion. It was a dick move because I did not realise how home I was hitting that for many of you, but really, getting overboard on Languish OT? Is that such a big deal? Agreed, it was less sterile and thus less condescending in nature than what Viking writes on the topic, but come on dude.

You yourself said that what you wanted to do unhindered was to be able to indulge in some good ol' fashioned Islam bashing. I'm sure that there are plenty of other forums around the net where such opinions are more than welcome.

:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 11:33:01 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.

Quote from: The Larch on September 16, 2013, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 16, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
I am not sure where the bigotry part comes from Larch. So I trolled on about religion. It was a dick move because I did not realise how home I was hitting that for many of you, but really, getting overboard on Languish OT? Is that such a big deal? Agreed, it was less sterile and thus less condescending in nature than what Viking writes on the topic, but come on dude.

You yourself said that what you wanted to do unhindered was to be able to indulge in some good ol' fashioned Islam bashing. I'm sure that there are plenty of other forums around the net where such opinions are more than welcome.

:hmm:

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:33:21 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
I can believe the last few years has seen a degradation compared to the years/decade before it, but on a longer scale the trend is still positive, and I don't think the likes of Trump can turn it around.

Doesn't mean people should just sit down and take it, obviously, but "the good ones are okay but the rest of them *shakes heads*" pretty much describes your posts here regarding white men.

Here's the difference: My having an issue with white men doesn't in any way directly affect them other than to feel slighted. There have been numerous white men in my life who have actively dehumanized me, most recently my former manager. The HR Director specifically told him that he was creating a hostile work environment for the women on this team. That man still has a job - in fact I believe he recently got a promotion - whereas two other women and I had to change jobs because the team was so toxic towards women.

White men getting insulted vs. it directly impacting their lives and livelihood in a demonstrable way are not comparable.

Is he keeping his job because he is a white man? Or because he is an assertive asshole?


Is calling me out as a subhuman worthy of collective punishment really going to get rid of such people from society?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.

Quote from: The Larch on September 16, 2013, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 16, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
I am not sure where the bigotry part comes from Larch. So I trolled on about religion. It was a dick move because I did not realise how home I was hitting that for many of you, but really, getting overboard on Languish OT? Is that such a big deal? Agreed, it was less sterile and thus less condescending in nature than what Viking writes on the topic, but come on dude.

You yourself said that what you wanted to do unhindered was to be able to indulge in some good ol' fashioned Islam bashing. I'm sure that there are plenty of other forums around the net where such opinions are more than welcome.

:hmm:

Explain this please. Not the super-creepy part of digging this up, but what does this prove?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 27, 2019, 11:35:59 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: dps on August 27, 2019, 10:22:17 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

IIRC, she's older than you.  She's closer to my age--and I was born before the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed.

I knew she was somewhat older than I am - but while it's usually bad form to mention how old a woman is, that was kind of my whole point, so I downplayed it by saying she is as old as I am.  -_-

For some reason I thought it was Yi who posted that Meri was "as old as I am".  He's what, 30?

Sorry, Meri.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.

Quote from: The Larch on September 16, 2013, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 16, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
I am not sure where the bigotry part comes from Larch. So I trolled on about religion. It was a dick move because I did not realise how home I was hitting that for many of you, but really, getting overboard on Languish OT? Is that such a big deal? Agreed, it was less sterile and thus less condescending in nature than what Viking writes on the topic, but come on dude.

You yourself said that what you wanted to do unhindered was to be able to indulge in some good ol' fashioned Islam bashing. I'm sure that there are plenty of other forums around the net where such opinions are more than welcome.

:hmm:

Explain this please. Not the super-creepy part of digging this up, but what does this prove?

Oh yeah using a search function on a forum is super creepy. Wtf?

It proves that there are people you are happy to dehumanise/demonise when you find it amusing. Or at least you did 6 years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: dps on August 27, 2019, 11:35:59 AM
For some reason I thought it was Yi who posted that Meri was "as old as I am".  He's what, 30?

Sorry, Meri.

There's no way in hell Yi is 30.  Pretty sure he's on the back half of his 40s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 11:42:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:33:21 AM
Is he keeping his job because he is a white man? Or because he is an assertive asshole?

He's keeping his job because his white heterosexual male boss doesn't see a need to fire him just because he's making life hell for the women on his team specifically because they are women and he doesn't think they're very smart. (He said this to the HR Director.)

Quote
Is calling me out as a subhuman worthy of collective punishment really going to get rid of such people from society?

I'm really not sure how lumping all white men together is calling you out as subhuman in the same way that calling a black man "black boy" is. YMMV
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 11:42:28 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: dps on August 27, 2019, 11:35:59 AM
For some reason I thought it was Yi who posted that Meri was "as old as I am".  He's what, 30?

Sorry, Meri.

There's no way in hell Yi is 30.  Pretty sure he's on the back half of his 40s.

He's a bit older than I am. Like a year or two, I think.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:43:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.

Quote from: The Larch on September 16, 2013, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 16, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
I am not sure where the bigotry part comes from Larch. So I trolled on about religion. It was a dick move because I did not realise how home I was hitting that for many of you, but really, getting overboard on Languish OT? Is that such a big deal? Agreed, it was less sterile and thus less condescending in nature than what Viking writes on the topic, but come on dude.

You yourself said that what you wanted to do unhindered was to be able to indulge in some good ol' fashioned Islam bashing. I'm sure that there are plenty of other forums around the net where such opinions are more than welcome.

:hmm:

Explain this please. Not the super-creepy part of digging this up, but what does this prove?

Oh yeah using a search function on a forum is super creepy. Wtf?

It proves that there are people you are happy to dehumanise/demonise when you find it amusing. Or at least you did 6 years ago.

It shows that Larch thought so. I can't remember what he was referring to. Might be right. I am white, after all. Who knows what's in my genes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 11:42:07 AM

He's keeping his job because his white heterosexual male boss doesn't see a need to fire him just because he's making life hell for the women on his team specifically because they are women and he doesn't think they're very smart. (He said this to the HR Director.)

Fair enough. If he wasn't white and/or a man, would that automatically remove the possibility of holding such views?

Quote
I'm really not sure how lumping all white men together is calling you out as subhuman in the same way that calling a black man "black boy" is. YMMV

Well, I am a white man. I cannot be excluded from any opinion/trait that is attributed to "white men".



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:51:09 AM
Also, Meri, your asshole of a former boss treated women like shit because "they are women and not very smart". You wrote this a page or so back:

Quote..white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?


Now I don't debate that as far as actions go he has done far worse than you. But in terms of views expressed, what is the qualitative difference between his and yours quoted above?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 27, 2019, 11:53:40 AM
As a white guy I would like to say that while I can probably walk 15 minutes for a burger I'd much rather drive.  If confronted with an mass shooter I'd certainly make the attempt to walk away at least 15 minutes and possibly jog as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:43:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.

Quote from: The Larch on September 16, 2013, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 16, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
I am not sure where the bigotry part comes from Larch. So I trolled on about religion. It was a dick move because I did not realise how home I was hitting that for many of you, but really, getting overboard on Languish OT? Is that such a big deal? Agreed, it was less sterile and thus less condescending in nature than what Viking writes on the topic, but come on dude.

You yourself said that what you wanted to do unhindered was to be able to indulge in some good ol' fashioned Islam bashing. I'm sure that there are plenty of other forums around the net where such opinions are more than welcome.

:hmm:

Explain this please. Not the super-creepy part of digging this up, but what does this prove?

Oh yeah using a search function on a forum is super creepy. Wtf?

It proves that there are people you are happy to dehumanise/demonise when you find it amusing. Or at least you did 6 years ago.

It shows that Larch thought so. I can't remember what he was referring to. Might be right. I am white, after all. Who knows what's in my genes.


If you click on hyperlink above on of the posts, you can see the thread. There were actually several posters who thought you were doing so.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on August 27, 2019, 11:58:45 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.

Quote from: The Larch on September 16, 2013, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on September 16, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
I am not sure where the bigotry part comes from Larch. So I trolled on about religion. It was a dick move because I did not realise how home I was hitting that for many of you, but really, getting overboard on Languish OT? Is that such a big deal? Agreed, it was less sterile and thus less condescending in nature than what Viking writes on the topic, but come on dude.

You yourself said that what you wanted to do unhindered was to be able to indulge in some good ol' fashioned Islam bashing. I'm sure that there are plenty of other forums around the net where such opinions are more than welcome.

:hmm:

Explain this please. Not the super-creepy part of digging this up, but what does this prove?

I think he's saying you're canceled or something, based on something you might have said 6 years ago on a forum where all sorts of loose talk was going on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:59:51 AM
Well, after apologising for it six years ago, I'll do so again, then!

Do you think this proves that it is correct to denounce white males in general?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 12:01:12 PM
In other words, if I were born either a non-white, or a non-male, would either of those have assured I would not have made that comment?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 27, 2019, 12:02:21 PM
Muslim isn't even a race. Why not take atheist men to task for Tamas's comments?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 12:28:19 PM
I don't think the way forward for society is pitting collectives against each other. I think the way forward is positive and individual-based, not negative and collective-based.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 27, 2019, 12:29:40 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:59:51 AM
Well, after apologising for it six years ago, I'll do so again, then!

Do you think this proves that it is correct to denounce white males in general?

You've a lot to learn if you think that post from you back then was actually an apology.

I found that exchange pretty quick as I have a vague sense you are anti-Islam. And sure enough found an exchange where you wanted to create a sock puppet to engage in bashing Muslims.

To be clear, I'm not interested in defending Meri's indefensible thesis that she posted in this thread and elsewhere.

I was surprised though for you to act like your shit doesn't stink.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 27, 2019, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 12:28:19 PM
I don't think the way forward for society is pitting collectives against each other. I think the way forward is positive and individual-based, not negative and collective-based.

Great, how do we get there? Systemic discrimination isn't going to disappear because we decide to assert we are all unique, great individuals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 12:35:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 12:28:19 PM
I don't think the way forward for society is pitting collectives against each other. I think the way forward is positive and individual-based, not negative and collective-based.

Great, how do we get there? Systemic discrimination isn't going to disappear because we decide to assert we are all unique, great individuals.

I think the answer is stop discrimination. Many indivudals and organizations do not discriminate, just do what they do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 01:07:58 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 11:51:09 AM
Also, Meri, your asshole of a former boss treated women like shit because "they are women and not very smart". You wrote this a page or so back:

Quote..white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?


Now I don't debate that as far as actions go he has done far worse than you. But in terms of views expressed, what is the qualitative difference between his and yours quoted above?

I had to leave my job. He did not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 12:28:19 PM
I don't think the way forward for society is pitting collectives against each other. I think the way forward is positive and individual-based, not negative and collective-based.

Great, how do we get there? Systemic discrimination isn't going to disappear because we decide to assert we are all unique, great individuals.

:contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 27, 2019, 01:54:35 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 26, 2019, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 26, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
I am sure a great many people have used a great many of slurs over the many eras of history.

I didn't realize that was something we should emulate.

But I see that was the intention, I was not aware that was the intention.

Of course it isn't. But asking white men to stop their crap hasn't worked. Instead, it's created a battle cry for the stubborn majority that Political Correctness is to blame for curbing their tongue. Those evil Liberal Free Speech deniers!

But this? Guys aren't liking it much. They're getting upset. They're feeling the pinch of their very being suddenly being a negative, a slur. Things they have absolutely no control over is being mocked and spat on.. And yeah... it sucks. It's awful. It absolutely shouldn't be happening.

Maybe the guys should have listened when we said stop it.
So you wanna combat some people being a jerk by being a jerk to a lot of people.  Fuck that.  Self serving crap.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 27, 2019, 02:40:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: dps on August 27, 2019, 11:35:59 AM
For some reason I thought it was Yi who posted that Meri was "as old as I am".  He's what, 30?

Sorry, Meri.

There's no way in hell Yi is 30.  Pretty sure he's on the back half of his 40s.
early to mid 50s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 27, 2019, 02:41:40 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 27, 2019, 02:40:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: dps on August 27, 2019, 11:35:59 AM
For some reason I thought it was Yi who posted that Meri was "as old as I am".  He's what, 30?

Sorry, Meri.

There's no way in hell Yi is 30.  Pretty sure he's on the back half of his 40s.
early to mid 50s.

Like 62 or thereabouts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 27, 2019, 02:43:07 PM
[spoiler]Fifty six[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 27, 2019, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 27, 2019, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on August 27, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Then what is your suggestion to fix the obvious disparity in how white men - as a majority - treat all others? Their demonization and dehumanization of women, blacks, Hispanics, etc?

Because calling them out has resulted in fuck all.

You're as old as I am Meri - you haven't noticed a significant change in how we treat or talk about women and minorities in the last 20 years?

:blink:

BB, it's gotten worse. The past 5-10 years have been steadily getting worse, and it's ramped up since Trump was elected. I hear the N word by white men more now than I did as a kid. My freaking Uber drivers in Salt Lake City - all three of them - felt that it was perfectly okay to regal me with stories about how The Good Blacks are okay, but the rest of them... *shakes heads*

It was better, and now it's worse. And it continues to get worse.

So what's the solution?

I cannot comment on what is happening in the US.  In Canada it has definitely gotten better
Yes, we a very pro-feminist Prime Minister, always considering to the advice of women on his team.    :yes:
So long as it happens to be the same thing he was thinking of. :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 27, 2019, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 27, 2019, 02:43:07 PM
[spoiler]Fifty six[/spoiler]
I was close!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 27, 2019, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 26, 2019, 05:10:33 PM

Of course it isn't. But asking white men to stop their crap hasn't worked. Instead, it's created a battle cry for the stubborn majority that Political Correctness is to blame for curbing their tongue. Those evil Liberal Free Speech deniers!

But this? Guys aren't liking it much. They're getting upset. They're feeling the pinch of their very being suddenly being a negative, a slur. Things they have absolutely no control over is being mocked and spat on.. And yeah... it sucks. It's awful. It absolutely shouldn't be happening.

Maybe the guys should have listened when we said stop it.

Indeed. Trying to get people to act decently has been a frustratingly failed human project for thousands of years.

Anyway it is all good. I just wasn't aware that was the intention.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
My impression is that it's rarely a good idea to alienate natural allies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
My impression is that it's rarely a good idea to alienate natural allies.

Allies should believe in equality not because they see friends they want to help, but because it's the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
My impression is that it's rarely a good idea to alienate natural allies.

Allies should believe in equality not because they see friends they want to help, but because it's the right thing to do.

Allies are hardly the same as friends. Is hurling abuse at natural allies the right thing to do, or is that done for other reasons?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 27, 2019, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
My impression is that it's rarely a good idea to alienate natural allies.

Allies should believe in equality not because they see friends they want to help, but because it's the right thing to do.

Indeed. I don't give a damn if people hate me for the color of my skin or my gender, I am going to do what I think is right. People hating others who are different than themselves is about as natural and normal as it gets. I was just taken aback to see it coming from people I otherwise respect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 27, 2019, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
My impression is that it's rarely a good idea to alienate natural allies.

Allies should believe in equality not because they see friends they want to help, but because it's the right thing to do.

Allies are hardly the same as friends. Is hurling abuse at natural allies the right thing to do, or is that done for other reasons?



"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice."

But still I agree abuse might feel good as an outlet but ultimately not effective.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 27, 2019, 02:43:07 PM
[spoiler]Fifty six[/spoiler]

:o Don't join the [spoiler]fifty six[/spoiler] club, please!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 04:36:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
My impression is that it's rarely a good idea to alienate natural allies.

Allies should believe in equality not because they see friends they want to help, but because it's the right thing to do.

Allies are hardly the same as friends. Is hurling abuse at natural allies the right thing to do, or is that done for other reasons?



"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice."

But still I agree abuse might feel good as an outlet but ultimately not effective.

It's also a different time. We aren't in the sixties.

If you are in the US, and want progress, everyone agrees you have to get rid of the current President, and the pack or regressive Republicans who support him. That will undoubtedly come down to convincing a sufficient number of the amorphous mass of whites who are not Klansmen (the Klansmen will all vote for Trump) to come out and vote Democrat.

This task will be made easier if those who identify as progressive Democrats don't go around trash talking about whites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2019, 03:51:06 PM
Indeed. I don't give a damn if people hate me for the color of my skin or my gender, I am going to do what I think is right. People hating others who are different than themselves is about as natural and normal as it gets. I was just taken aback to see it coming from people I otherwise respect.

Look, you guys are 100% correct that it shouldn't happen. It's wrong no matter how it's done. But I also know that sometimes giving as good as you get has an affect. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's where this stems from.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 27, 2019, 04:51:31 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 04:36:02 PMIt's also a different time. We aren't in the sixties.

Highly debatable that the dynamic that King identifies - moderation vs radicalism - is somehow entirely different today. The terms have shifted; the interaction, not so much.

QuoteIf you are in the US, and want progress, everyone agrees you have to get rid of the current President, and the pack or regressive Republicans who support him.

Clearly not everyone, or it wouldn't be an issue.

QuoteThis task will be made easier if those who identify as progressive Democrats don't go around trash talking about whites.

The whole difficulty here, is that many people will insist that attacking "whiteness" is attacking them personally. It's not. It's attacking something which used not to be attacked -- which used to be the standard by which normalcy was identified. If, at any time the issue is raised, you scoff at the fact that you could actually be part (and beneficiary) of a system that is admittedly enforced by "those" assholes, I feel you kind of correspond to what King was denouncing. Considering some of the regular abuse some people face, *every day*, I have more time and patience for their anger, as obnoxious and clumsy as it may be, than I have about white offense.

The point is not that people should feel ashamed of being white, or male (or black, or female). Rather, it's to recognize how certain types of behavior are defined, determined, and assessed very differently for all of these groups. And to say, "I am going to do what I think is right, dammit", runs also the risk of being blind to the fact that 1) sometimes, "what is right" looks, and feels quite different depending on your circumstances and 2) the capacity to do so, is quite unequally distributed. If, in the face of an injustice, I lose my temper and insult a cop, I will most likely live. If my nephew does that, he may very well die. And that is utterly independent of the fact that I may be an asshole, and my nephew the most gentle and soft-spoken person out there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 27, 2019, 05:17:21 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2019, 03:51:06 PM
Indeed. I don't give a damn if people hate me for the color of my skin or my gender, I am going to do what I think is right. People hating others who are different than themselves is about as natural and normal as it gets. I was just taken aback to see it coming from people I otherwise respect.

Look, you guys are 100% correct that it shouldn't happen. It's wrong no matter how it's done. But I also know that sometimes giving as good as you get has an affect. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's where this stems from.
To whom?  The web is full of pissy old white dudes who blame affirmative action for all their ills. Listening to them and listtening to you, I don't see much diff.  Seriously. 

Why would I work with someone who would treat me as they would someone who we are supposed to be morally opposed to?  I know its hard, everybody self identifies as a victim, and therefore feels they are right to toss around insults.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on August 27, 2019, 05:25:35 PM
I'm with those who find racist name calling and scapegoating counterproductive... assuming our goal is to create a more pleasant and just society.

Of course, that's probably not actually the motivation for most people who engage in such behavior.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on August 27, 2019, 05:27:46 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 04:36:02 PM
the Klansmen will all vote for Trump

You sure about that?  The California branch of the Klan endorsed Hillary in 2016.  And I know people who still vote straight Democratic tickets 'cause Lincoln freed the slaves and Lincoln was a Republican.  Granted, those guys are just a small minority nowadays, but they still exist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on August 27, 2019, 05:57:42 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 12:28:19 PM
I don't think the way forward for society is pitting collectives against each other. I think the way forward is positive and individual-based, not negative and collective-based.

Great, how do we get there? Systemic discrimination isn't going to disappear because we decide to assert we are all unique, great individuals.

Familiarity.

The first step was the hardest one, minorities putting themselves out there. That's pretty much done all over the West. Unlike what happened just a few decades ago, we are all used to -- for example -- openly gay people. That's how you get laws to change and younger generations to accept the new norm.
Some of that can be done through the media, but it is getting harder due to echo chambers. The main other tool is personal contact. It is much easier to accept someone you like.
What's left are predominantly rural, older and/or reactionary folk, which is what Meri seems to think every white man is (thanks, by the way). There's not really much you can do about those. But they'll die out, eventually.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 27, 2019, 06:16:51 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on August 27, 2019, 05:57:42 PM
There's not really much you can do about those. But they'll die out, eventually.

Current context hints that the theory/hope of inevitable demographic change (which is dubious in any way) may very well be kept in check by strong political reaction, and the overall undermining of liberal regimes. And that reactionary suburbs do not need to be located in the boondocks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on August 27, 2019, 06:34:31 PM
I would like to put forward Spanish law as an example of how not to do things. It is an interesting case of how overreach can harm feminism.

For some time now the law is not equal for men and women here. This was done to protect victims of domestic abuse. Predictably, it has led to widespread cases of false accusations, especially when child custody is involved. 80% of those cases are deemed without merit, yet false accusations rarely prosecuted (about 0.1%).

This mess has been a godsend to our own reactionaries, who have cleverly rallied in defense of men whom the law has made powerless, their homes and kids taken away from them, etc. After losing votes from the right, our very own Boris is veering in that direction, trying to recover those votes. In other words, a law supposedly drafted to help women has helped turn a significant part of the parliament against women rights. Moreover, a majority of the population, liberals and women included, think feminist legislation has gone too far and should be dialed down.

The best part? The law did not help lowering domestic violence murder rates.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on August 27, 2019, 06:49:44 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 27, 2019, 06:16:51 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on August 27, 2019, 05:57:42 PM
There's not really much you can do about those. But they'll die out, eventually.

Current context hints that the theory/hope of inevitable demographic change (which is dubious in any way) may very well be kept in check by strong political reaction, and the overall undermining of liberal regimes. And that reactionary suburbs do not need to be located in the boondocks.

Those political reactions are largely a result of diminishing economic opportunities and rampant corruption, not of growing minority presence (see for example London vs Little Britain). Treating all white men like trash is not going to help tax billionaires or develop communities. It is certainly not going to win their help to further any political agenda.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 27, 2019, 07:07:12 PM
Who treats all white men like trash?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 27, 2019, 10:26:55 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 04:37:30 PM
Look, you guys are 100% correct that it shouldn't happen. It's wrong no matter how it's done. But I also know that sometimes giving as good as you get has an affect. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's where this stems from.
let's say two men are standing behind you in the elevator.  You feel a hand reaching for your butt.  Turning back quickly, it's obvious which one of the two did it, he's the only one with a free hand as the other one is texting on his phone.

A) You slap texter, as that will feel good and teach the grabber a good lesson.
B) You slap both of them because you are an equal opportunist and it is a well known fact that all men are pigs.Do you think you changed anything about indecent behavior?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on August 27, 2019, 10:44:13 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 27, 2019, 04:36:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 27, 2019, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 27, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
My impression is that it's rarely a good idea to alienate natural allies.

Allies should believe in equality not because they see friends they want to help, but because it's the right thing to do.

Allies are hardly the same as friends. Is hurling abuse at natural allies the right thing to do, or is that done for other reasons?



"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice."

But still I agree abuse might feel good as an outlet but ultimately not effective.

It's also a different time. We aren't in the sixties.

If you are in the US, and want progress, everyone agrees you have to get rid of the current President, and the pack or regressive Republicans who support him. That will undoubtedly come down to convincing a sufficient number of the amorphous mass of whites who are not Klansmen (the Klansmen will all vote for Trump) to come out and vote Democrat.

This task will be made easier if those who identify as progressive Democrats don't go around trash talking about whites.

Go away closet Conservative!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 27, 2019, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 27, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
I am not dehumanising or demonising anyone.

Underachiever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 28, 2019, 12:53:30 AM
Quote from: Iormland
What's left are predominantly rural, older and/or reactionary folk, which is what Meri seems to think every white man is (thanks, by the way). There's not really much you can do about those. But they'll die out, eventually.

I don't, actually. I take issue with exactly the men you're talking about. When speaking of White Men as a pejorative, that's whom I'm speaking of.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 28, 2019, 01:31:57 AM
It's cute that Berk thinks he's in the closet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 28, 2019, 04:41:57 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 28, 2019, 12:53:30 AM

I don't, actually. I take issue with exactly the men you're talking about. When speaking of White Men as a pejorative, that's whom I'm speaking of.

Yes, but actually no. If you talk about white men, you talk about, you know, white men.

Can't you see you are using the exact same excuses racists do when talking about blacks/arabs/whatever? "Yeah I have no problem with the good ones, it's the bad ones that are the problem".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 28, 2019, 08:01:37 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 27, 2019, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 27, 2019, 03:51:06 PM
Indeed. I don't give a damn if people hate me for the color of my skin or my gender, I am going to do what I think is right. People hating others who are different than themselves is about as natural and normal as it gets. I was just taken aback to see it coming from people I otherwise respect.

Look, you guys are 100% correct that it shouldn't happen. It's wrong no matter how it's done. But I also know that sometimes giving as good as you get has an affect. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's where this stems from.


You should do what Catholics did back in the 19th century.  Kick their asses.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 28, 2019, 09:44:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69158101_837641546630041_4613398997413920768_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQnT1xZTWg26MN-H_rwfx7xG8W2bdoNsUKoTvNeUbzsDhySiyA119OVuoDVinn4JD_I&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5bb0fb24c36f31bd6ebb7b81e7258c0a&oe=5E019EF6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 28, 2019, 09:52:49 AM
that one actually made me laugh, mainly because I heard it in the actors voice in my head
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2019, 09:55:02 AM
Insulting an entire generation is the best way to win hearts and minds.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 28, 2019, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2019, 09:55:02 AM
Insulting an entire generation is the best way to win hearts and minds.  :wacko:

:D  Although I don't see how anyone could be insulted by claiming that their generation couldn't start a "lawnmower fruitcake." There's never been a generation in human history able to even make a decent lawnmower fruitcake, let alone start one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on August 28, 2019, 11:03:05 AM
it's all fun and games until a boomer needs to send an email or save a file.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 28, 2019, 11:10:37 AM
Quote from: HVC on August 28, 2019, 11:03:05 AM
it's all fun and games until a boomer needs to send an email or save a file.
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 28, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2019, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2019, 09:55:02 AM
Insulting an entire generation is the best way to win hearts and minds.  :wacko:

:D  Although I don't see how anyone could be insulted by claiming that their generation couldn't start a "lawnmower fruitcake." There's never been a generation in human history able to even make a decent lawnmower fruitcake, let alone start one.
I bet the Ottomans could have.  Thats many generations worth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 28, 2019, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 28, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2019, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2019, 09:55:02 AM
Insulting an entire generation is the best way to win hearts and minds.  :wacko:

:D  Although I don't see how anyone could be insulted by claiming that their generation couldn't start a "lawnmower fruitcake." There's never been a generation in human history able to even make a decent lawnmower fruitcake, let alone start one.
I bet the Ottomans could have.  Thats many generations worth.

The ability to make fruitcake footrests should not be extrapolated to the ability to make fruitcake lawnmowers. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 28, 2019, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2019, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 28, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2019, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2019, 09:55:02 AM
Insulting an entire generation is the best way to win hearts and minds.  :wacko:

:D  Although I don't see how anyone could be insulted by claiming that their generation couldn't start a "lawnmower fruitcake." There's never been a generation in human history able to even make a decent lawnmower fruitcake, let alone start one.
I bet the Ottomans could have.  Thats many generations worth.

The ability to make fruitcake footrests should not be extrapolated to the ability to make fruitcake lawnmowers. :contract:
I can't argue with that. Nobody can.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 28, 2019, 06:09:03 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 28, 2019, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2019, 09:55:02 AM
Insulting an entire generation is the best way to win hearts and minds.  :wacko:

:D  Although I don't see how anyone could be insulted by claiming that their generation couldn't start a "lawnmower fruitcake." There's never been a generation in human history able to even make a decent lawnmower fruitcake, let alone start one.
What makes you qualified to speak for every generation of human history?  :hmm: Oh, right.  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 02, 2019, 03:15:13 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJFsK1Td/DFB.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 02, 2019, 04:45:50 PM
Looks like they were made for each other.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 02, 2019, 05:06:34 PM
The point about Gilroy is pretty good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 02, 2019, 08:59:23 PM
Why are we greedy? Did Texans always bid way high on the showcase in the Price is Right or something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 02, 2019, 11:08:34 PM
Dallas, the TV show.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on September 03, 2019, 01:03:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 02, 2019, 03:15:13 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJFsK1Td/DFB.png)

According to IMDB she hasn't worked on the Price is Right since 2011. Also, if she posted that, she's since removed it, as it's not on her Twitter feed now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 03, 2019, 01:05:45 PM
Boycott successful!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 03, 2019, 01:11:10 PM
I'm not sure what the Hope Vinitsky thing is supposed to be.  That's not what Twitter posts look like when I see them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on September 03, 2019, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 03, 2019, 01:11:10 PM
I'm not sure what the Hope Vinitsky thing is supposed to be.  That's not what Twitter posts look like when I see them.

Probably using tweetdeck, hootsuite or similar program.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 03, 2019, 01:30:20 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13686666_1042429439205164_5924847370891085817_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQktxzx6jRy0f-H6B-raqVz781dWPoKvdmm8RfwvKHPOe3bmRRLCdoG9sAVwhTXD6Dw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3cc38ef39f2712a003a2a338509195cd&oe=5E107A55)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on September 03, 2019, 01:35:02 PM
WTF. As if black farmers had it any better during that period?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on September 03, 2019, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 03, 2019, 01:35:02 PM
WTF. As if black farmers had it any better during that period?

You're missing the point, Habs. The point is that if there's such a thing as White Privilege, then clearly there can be no White Poor.

Duh.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 03, 2019, 01:45:38 PM
I doubt the person who created this little bit of propaganda realized this, but these are victims of centuries of slavery.  Slavery really fucks up your economy, while blacks suffered the most the poor buckra didn't do so hot either.  And because the political and economic leaders pitted blacks and whites against each other, there was little progress for either class.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 03, 2019, 09:57:05 PM
Quote from: merithyn on September 03, 2019, 01:03:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 02, 2019, 03:15:13 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJFsK1Td/DFB.png)

According to IMDB she hasn't worked on the Price is Right since 2011. Also, if she posted that, she's since removed it, as it's not on her Twitter feed now.

off topic, but I found this looking this at her page:
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-says-he-heroically-avoided-capture-in-vietnam-by-staying-in-u-s
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 04, 2019, 12:21:17 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69368544_3550896904936379_4878210965599944704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQlTkfDnXRv8o4OGBQ7Br2aJmL5K9uaXoD9JE25G93ClcWTiqpZWvLyY1naTMcBAWbE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a4a61101c4ce51f362b7b75c0d0db2f4&oe=5E11EC39)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 04, 2019, 12:48:46 AM
Zedong was the worst, worse than Mao.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on September 04, 2019, 12:54:10 AM
The shitty photoshop cropping might be even more offensive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 04, 2019, 06:41:13 AM
If there are specific things Mao, Hitler, Stalin, and Ocasio-Cortez are promising that nobody else ever has promised in the history of the world that inevitably lead to genocide, it would be nice to know what these things are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 04, 2019, 06:54:19 AM
Big rock candy mountains and lakes of soup.  Real Americans promise nothing but blood, sweat, and tears. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 04, 2019, 04:38:51 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69563042_10157706443598469_3376999967276138496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQlyhjN3VAM2rN807FgzufK_S5FqEPVrvQTBMW4qxTYH7ilcpWH_tiW4ADkWOw9P2GA&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=8b81b739b5ab403fcc6072d5cb02a70b&oe=5DFE6EE4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 04, 2019, 09:50:29 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 04, 2019, 06:54:19 AM
Big rock candy mountains and lakes of soup.  Real Americans promise nothing but blood, sweat, and tears. 

Brits add toil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 05, 2019, 01:04:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67541991_2393171370920595_3508021758571577344_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlDGbY8fIPh71v4u_38zJd2XmivCbd5sTvaKUYZIyZ9yR_ve8lXKxE8WtFe6YdvT9M&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ac8893a4b15e7cae5b7f485d65259925&oe=5E118A12)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 05, 2019, 02:13:37 AM
Lame.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 05, 2019, 05:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 04, 2019, 12:48:46 AM
Zedong was the worst, worse than Mao.

So sad that Pol Pot is forgotten nowadays by meme makers. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 05, 2019, 10:29:06 AM
"He makes Joe Stalin look like Pol Pot!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 05, 2019, 02:28:40 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69272217_2964338263581354_5685648419062808576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlhMGFP_7qBhIaBYPeUXTsgkZ1nVsPxGgdp5JtX9QoJhjzN6z6FUx04KXweYP-8cDA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8619cb327b4670a1017a9d564f6fda40&oe=5E03550E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 05, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
On both the left and the right - why is it always that people need to "lose their jobs"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on September 05, 2019, 03:15:36 PM
What if they succeed in the indoctrination, not just try to indoctrinate?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 05, 2019, 03:17:26 PM
You'd know all about that, wouldn't you?  :angry: :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 05, 2019, 03:56:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 05, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
On both the left and the right - why is it always that people need to "lose their jobs"?

We do seem to have this odd idea that the way to improve people, if jail is not an option, is to make their lives even more terrible and desperate.

Though perhaps really it has just become the socially acceptable way of ostracizing undesirables.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 05, 2019, 04:00:47 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 05, 2019, 03:56:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 05, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
On both the left and the right - why is it always that people need to "lose their jobs"?

We do seem to have this odd idea that the way to improve people, if jail is not an option, is to make their lives even more terrible and desperate.

Though perhaps really it has just become the socially acceptable way of ostracizing undesirables.

It isn't at all about improving them, it is all about harming one's ideological enemies.

Left and Right share this - that those who think differently are not ignorant and in need of enlightenment, but wicked and in need of suppression and punishment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 05, 2019, 05:33:18 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 05, 2019, 02:28:40 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69272217_2964338263581354_5685648419062808576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlhMGFP_7qBhIaBYPeUXTsgkZ1nVsPxGgdp5JtX9QoJhjzN6z6FUx04KXweYP-8cDA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8619cb327b4670a1017a9d564f6fda40&oe=5E03550E)

Great so the vast number of teachers who both embrace and teach the ideology of liberal democracy which is the US constitution should lose their Jobs and be replaced by...what?


Quote from: Malthus on September 05, 2019, 04:00:47 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 05, 2019, 03:56:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 05, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
On both the left and the right - why is it always that people need to "lose their jobs"?

We do seem to have this odd idea that the way to improve people, if jail is not an option, is to make their lives even more terrible and desperate.

Though perhaps really it has just become the socially acceptable way of ostracizing undesirables.

It isn't at all about improving them, it is all about harming one's ideological enemies.

Left and Right share this - that those who think differently are not ignorant and in need of enlightenment, but wicked and in need of suppression and punishment.

They do?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 05, 2019, 05:48:55 PM
Oh yes they do. We have only discussed this dozens of times.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 05, 2019, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 05, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
On both the left and the right - why is it always that people need to "lose their jobs"?
You can't take someone's life for having the wrong opinion, so taking their livelihood is the next best thing.  Obviously it's not an ideal outcome, but having people shot for political crimes wouldn't fly in the West, at least not in the near future.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 06, 2019, 12:53:59 AM
I'm pretty sure that "political indoctrination" in this context means "anything I disagree with."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 06, 2019, 04:28:11 AM
Taking one's livelihood is an excellent way of bending them to your will.

That was the big discovery of the more "enlightened" post-1956 communist dictatorship in Hungary (and I believe the Soviets moved toward this in the 80s as well): you don't need to physically destroy people who dare speak up against you. Just destroy their livelihood. Especially since most of these would educated people to begin with, just exile them from their chosen profession, and force them into a life of unskilled labour and poverty. You do that to a few, the rest will fall in line.

Same went on with recruiting informants for the internal secret service. Sure you could had said no. But then you could forget ever being promoted or getting a decent job in your chosen field, ever again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 07:25:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 05, 2019, 05:48:55 PM
Oh yes they do. We have only discussed this dozens of times.

I recall a discussion about reactions to racist comments, not political ideology.  But it may be that distinction is becoming less relevant in the age of Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 06, 2019, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 07:25:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 05, 2019, 05:48:55 PM
Oh yes they do. We have only discussed this dozens of times.

I recall a discussion about reactions to racist comments, not political ideology.  But it may be that distinction is becoming less relevant in the age of Trump.

Or it may just be that your power of recall is poor. 

We certainly have discussed various attempts to suppress speech on political/ideological grounds, though there was no convincing evidence from either side as to the extent of the problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 06, 2019, 08:04:57 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 06, 2019, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 07:25:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 05, 2019, 05:48:55 PM
Oh yes they do. We have only discussed this dozens of times.

I recall a discussion about reactions to racist comments, not political ideology.  But it may be that distinction is becoming less relevant in the age of Trump.

Or it may just be that your power of recall is poor. 

We certainly have discussed various attempts to suppress speech on political/ideological grounds, though there was no convincing evidence from either side as to the extent of the problem.

STFU

Have we discussed geriatric grounds btw? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 02:09:51 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 06, 2019, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 07:25:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 05, 2019, 05:48:55 PM
Oh yes they do. We have only discussed this dozens of times.

I recall a discussion about reactions to racist comments, not political ideology.  But it may be that distinction is becoming less relevant in the age of Trump.

Or it may just be that your power of recall is poor. 

We certainly have discussed various attempts to suppress speech on political/ideological grounds, though there was no convincing evidence from either side as to the extent of the problem.

goal posts effectively moved. Well done.  We were talking about the left calling for people to be punished by being fired for their political beliefs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 06, 2019, 04:55:06 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 02:09:51 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 06, 2019, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 07:25:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 05, 2019, 05:48:55 PM
Oh yes they do. We have only discussed this dozens of times.

I recall a discussion about reactions to racist comments, not political ideology.  But it may be that distinction is becoming less relevant in the age of Trump.

Or it may just be that your power of recall is poor. 

We certainly have discussed various attempts to suppress speech on political/ideological grounds, though there was no convincing evidence from either side as to the extent of the problem.

goal posts effectively moved. Well done.  We were talking about the left calling for people to be punished by being fired for their political beliefs.

I guess your reading comprehension is about on par with your recall.  That's what I was talking about, as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 06, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 02:09:51 PM
goal posts effectively moved. Well done.  We were talking about the left calling for people to be punished by being fired for their political beliefs.

They are not calling for people on the left to be fired for their political beliefs but expressing them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2019, 01:59:17 AM
https://www.lifenews.com/2019/08/21/disabled-41-year-old-man-is-euthanized-after-funding-for-home-health-care-runs-out/?fbclid=IwAR26aI4ffmk3GHlUqRB_giDOr0IsiN652V5i2qmaosqcHNwm52TFVipQTCg

QuoteDisabled 41-Year-Old Man is Euthanized After Funding for Home Health Care Runs Out

Canadian Sean Tagert, aged 41, was killed by assisted suicide after health officials decided to cut the funding for his in-home care hours.

Mr Tagert suffered from Motor Neurone Disease (MND) which is known in Canada as Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS). His illness reduced his ability to move his body, eat or speak, however his mental awareness remained unaffected. Doctors recommended 24-hour in-home care to support Mr Tagert.

However, Vancouver Coastal Health, initially only offered Mr Tagert 15.5 hours of care a day, which was then raised to 20 hours a day, meaning that Mr Tagert was forced to pay $263.50 a day for the remaining care that he needed to survive.

Welcome to the great Canadian healthcare system

According to Grandin Media, on social media, Mr Tagert wrote a status which explained that two Vancouver Coastal Health officials visited his home and confirmed that they were cutting funding for his already inadequate care hours.

After receiving this news Mr Tagert wrote a number of devastating social media status's which read: "So last Friday I officially submitted my medically assisted death paperwork, with lawyers and doctors, everything is in proper order. It's been a month since I submitted my appeal to the Vancouver Coastal Health patient care quality department. They didn't even respond....Welcome to the great Canadian healthcare system."

Mr Tagert was killed by assisted suicide on August 6th.

Canada is home to some of the world's most sinister euthanasia and assisted suicide laws, as even those without a terminal illness or those suffering from a mental illness are eligible to be killed by a medically assisted death.

Since Canada legalised euthanasia in 2016, there have been at least 6,749 cases of medically assisted deaths, with over 803 dead in the first 6 months of legalisation. 2018 saw Canada's euthanasia figures soar with over 3000 Canadians killed by their doctor.

When the right to die becomes the duty to die

A ComRes poll found that nearly half of the British population is concerned that if the option of ending one's life was made legal, some people would feel pressurised into killing themselves.

It is becoming increasingly evident that suicide laws could lead to vulnerable people seeing suicide as a treatment option, so as not to be a burden to others.

In a recent debate in the House Commons, MP Lynn McInnes expressed her concern at the very realistic possibility of the vulnerable being pressurised to die. Ms McInnes said: "My concern is that in the current climate, at a time of over-stretched NHS budgets and massively under-funded social care, if assisted dying was legalised, it would begin to be seen as an alternative to treatment and to care. There is a very real risk of a subtle yet dangerous culture change, in which vulnerable, terminally ill patients, come to see assisted dying as a treatment option, and indeed the best way to stop themselves becoming a burden to their families, to the NHS and to wider society."

MP Jim Shannon also stated during the debate, that "the 'right to die' for the eloquent and well off would become a duty to die for the poor and vulnerable."

We have a duty to protect the vulnerable

Director of SPUC's Patients First Network, Antonia Tully said: "If assisted dying is legalised in Britain it could lead to a reduction in the quality of healthcare and risks promoting death as an alternative to medical treatment. We have a duty to protect the vulnerable, who deserve good healthcare and respect."

Ms Tully continued: "Mr Tagert's story should serve as a glaring warning to our MPs that assisted dying can make vulnerable people even more vulnerable. Assisted suicide is an inhumane response to suffering. It is a dangerous route to go down."


Oh, Canada :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 08, 2019, 05:32:55 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 08, 2019, 01:59:17 AM
https://www.lifenews.com/2019/08/21/disabled-41-year-old-man-is-euthanized-after-funding-for-home-health-care-runs-out/?fbclid=IwAR26aI4ffmk3GHlUqRB_giDOr0IsiN652V5i2qmaosqcHNwm52TFVipQTCg

QuoteDisabled 41-Year-Old Man is Euthanized After Funding for Home Health Care Runs Out

Canadian Sean Tagert, aged 41, was killed by assisted suicide after health officials decided to cut the funding for his in-home care hours.

Mr Tagert suffered from Motor Neurone Disease (MND) which is known in Canada as Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS). His illness reduced his ability to move his body, eat or speak, however his mental awareness remained unaffected. Doctors recommended 24-hour in-home care to support Mr Tagert.

However, Vancouver Coastal Health, initially only offered Mr Tagert 15.5 hours of care a day, which was then raised to 20 hours a day, meaning that Mr Tagert was forced to pay $263.50 a day for the remaining care that he needed to survive.

Welcome to the great Canadian healthcare system

According to Grandin Media, on social media, Mr Tagert wrote a status which explained that two Vancouver Coastal Health officials visited his home and confirmed that they were cutting funding for his already inadequate care hours.

After receiving this news Mr Tagert wrote a number of devastating social media status's which read: "So last Friday I officially submitted my medically assisted death paperwork, with lawyers and doctors, everything is in proper order. It's been a month since I submitted my appeal to the Vancouver Coastal Health patient care quality department. They didn't even respond....Welcome to the great Canadian healthcare system."

Mr Tagert was killed by assisted suicide on August 6th.

Canada is home to some of the world's most sinister euthanasia and assisted suicide laws, as even those without a terminal illness or those suffering from a mental illness are eligible to be killed by a medically assisted death.

Since Canada legalised euthanasia in 2016, there have been at least 6,749 cases of medically assisted deaths, with over 803 dead in the first 6 months of legalisation. 2018 saw Canada's euthanasia figures soar with over 3000 Canadians killed by their doctor.

When the right to die becomes the duty to die

A ComRes poll found that nearly half of the British population is concerned that if the option of ending one's life was made legal, some people would feel pressurised into killing themselves.

It is becoming increasingly evident that suicide laws could lead to vulnerable people seeing suicide as a treatment option, so as not to be a burden to others.

In a recent debate in the House Commons, MP Lynn McInnes expressed her concern at the very realistic possibility of the vulnerable being pressurised to die. Ms McInnes said: "My concern is that in the current climate, at a time of over-stretched NHS budgets and massively under-funded social care, if assisted dying was legalised, it would begin to be seen as an alternative to treatment and to care. There is a very real risk of a subtle yet dangerous culture change, in which vulnerable, terminally ill patients, come to see assisted dying as a treatment option, and indeed the best way to stop themselves becoming a burden to their families, to the NHS and to wider society."

MP Jim Shannon also stated during the debate, that "the 'right to die' for the eloquent and well off would become a duty to die for the poor and vulnerable."

We have a duty to protect the vulnerable

Director of SPUC's Patients First Network, Antonia Tully said: "If assisted dying is legalised in Britain it could lead to a reduction in the quality of healthcare and risks promoting death as an alternative to medical treatment. We have a duty to protect the vulnerable, who deserve good healthcare and respect."

Ms Tully continued: "Mr Tagert's story should serve as a glaring warning to our MPs that assisted dying can make vulnerable people even more vulnerable. Assisted suicide is an inhumane response to suffering. It is a dangerous route to go down."


Oh, Canada :weep:

This looks like a poster child for the badly-written hit piece written by an ideologically-driven "news" site.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2019, 05:54:16 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 08, 2019, 05:32:55 AM
This looks like a poster child for the badly-written hit piece written by an ideologically-driven "news" site.

:o

It's a good example of the news stories my sisters share (besides FOX News).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 08, 2019, 07:50:37 AM
While obviously more of an editorial (of whatever quality you judge it be) than a news article, I think it does provoke a real and troubling concern.  That point where even a theoretically universal health care system decides to cut short that universality for the sake of costs, and thus perhaps making the life of someone with a debilitating illness feel as if it no longer worth struggling with.

(here is the news report from the CBC, if you want one a bit less ideologically charged: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/als-bc-man-medically-assisted-death-1.5244731 _
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 08, 2019, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 08, 2019, 07:50:37 AM
While obviously more of an editorial (of whatever quality you judge it be) than a news article, I think it does provoke a real and troubling concern.  That point where even a theoretically universal health care system decides to cut short that universality for the sake of costs, and thus perhaps making the life of someone with a debilitating illness feel as if it no longer worth struggling with.

(here is the news report from the CBC, if you want one a bit less ideologically charged: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/als-bc-man-medically-assisted-death-1.5244731 _
I'm impressed that it actually happened, or at least, something close to what the article said. Most of them are made up crap. "Not Fake News as they are based on Tru Events meant to make you think. "
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2019, 03:09:40 PM
QuoteChristina Clancy
September 4 at 11:56 AM
Dear Walmart,
Since you are going to stop selling handgun and Ar-15 ammunition due to criminals using firearms to commit crimes I will also expect you to stop selling the following:
1. Alcoholic beverages of any type since they contribute to drunk driving, domestic violence, all sorts of ailments, and random stupidity of all types.
2. All cell phones due to people using them while driving and being distracted and causing more fatal accidents per year than gun deaths.
3. All kinds of sodas due to the sugar content contributing to Diabetes, obesity, tooth decay, as well as certain cancers from diet soft drinks.
4. Processed foods of all types due to cancer and heart attack risks, as well as a plethora of other ailments.
5. All automotive products due to them contributing to auto accident fatalities.
6. Lawn and garden chemicals and products due to the cancer connections.
7. All fresh produce due to the use of pesticides and potential cancer risk.
8. All clothing products not made in the USA or other country that doesn't have a slave like labor force.
9. All types of plastic products, because a recent study has shown micro-plastic particles in poop from people from all over the world plus the bottom of the ocean is littered with discarded plastic containers.
10. Pharmaceutical products due to the potential of abuse and addiction.
12. All electronic items made in third world countries due to poor working conditions.
13. All knives due to the increased knife attach in countries that have banned firearms.

Doesn't leave much does it? And that is just the short list. Walmart executives please remove your cranium from your colonic orifice and realize you're fighting the wrong people and the wrong problems for the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 08, 2019, 03:19:39 PM
So she agrees that we should do background checks and gun registries to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2019, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 08, 2019, 03:19:39 PM
So she agrees that we should do background checks and gun registries to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68591501_10216407788320209_1608595669033943040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQmm5eOrHqOm8mnfbAr-xzk4NnWCXxuovJXzYNQb0aeUfKvrjxhQghkOJ7vc-GLT73E&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cb7944e18757d837e66723d2aed7b93b&oe=5DCA115C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 08, 2019, 03:33:55 PM
I mean true. People would still be killed by knives. But they are just much less efficient.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 08, 2019, 04:48:04 PM
So the argument is that things wouldn't be any worse if prisoners were allowed to have guns?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 08, 2019, 05:38:43 PM
The argument is if you can't get to zero deaths what's the point of even trying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 08, 2019, 05:54:46 PM
Gun nuts really do have a bizzare view of the world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 08, 2019, 06:50:44 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 08, 2019, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 08, 2019, 07:50:37 AM
While obviously more of an editorial (of whatever quality you judge it be) than a news article, I think it does provoke a real and troubling concern.  That point where even a theoretically universal health care system decides to cut short that universality for the sake of costs, and thus perhaps making the life of someone with a debilitating illness feel as if it no longer worth struggling with.

(here is the news report from the CBC, if you want one a bit less ideologically charged: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/als-bc-man-medically-assisted-death-1.5244731 _
I'm impressed that it actually happened, or at least, something close to what the article said. Most of them are made up crap. "Not Fake News as they are based on Tru Events meant to make you think. "

A couple of things struck me about this story.  First, I find it hard to believe that the difference between the 20 hours of care he was offered and the 24 he wanted was literally the difference between living happily and wanting to kill yourself.  Second, if he literally could not survive without 24-hour medical care, he probably belonged in a hospital/care facility.  Nobody wants to leave their kids to go into the hospital, but that's not the deciding factor.  Third, he was in end-stage ALS (after surviving longer than most victims), so his life expectancy was short and he may have opted for assisted suicide soon even if he'd gotten the extra 4 hours/day of nursing, just so his son could know he went out peacefully.

In short, I don't see this as a scandal.  A tragedy, for sure, but the tragedy was him developing ALS with such a young child.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 08, 2019, 07:09:11 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 08, 2019, 05:54:46 PM
Gun nuts really do have a bizzare view of the world.


No, it's just dishonest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 09, 2019, 07:17:15 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 08, 2019, 06:50:44 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 08, 2019, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 08, 2019, 07:50:37 AM
While obviously more of an editorial (of whatever quality you judge it be) than a news article, I think it does provoke a real and troubling concern.  That point where even a theoretically universal health care system decides to cut short that universality for the sake of costs, and thus perhaps making the life of someone with a debilitating illness feel as if it no longer worth struggling with.

(here is the news report from the CBC, if you want one a bit less ideologically charged: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/als-bc-man-medically-assisted-death-1.5244731 _
I'm impressed that it actually happened, or at least, something close to what the article said. Most of them are made up crap. "Not Fake News as they are based on Tru Events meant to make you think. "

A couple of things struck me about this story.  First, I find it hard to believe that the difference between the 20 hours of care he was offered and the 24 he wanted was literally the difference between living happily and wanting to kill yourself.  Second, if he literally could not survive without 24-hour medical care, he probably belonged in a hospital/care facility.  Nobody wants to leave their kids to go into the hospital, but that's not the deciding factor.  Third, he was in end-stage ALS (after surviving longer than most victims), so his life expectancy was short and he may have opted for assisted suicide soon even if he'd gotten the extra 4 hours/day of nursing, just so his son could know he went out peacefully.

In short, I don't see this as a scandal.  A tragedy, for sure, but the tragedy was him developing ALS with such a young child.

But there was a guy and he did have a sickness.  That makes this article more factually true than most of them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 09, 2019, 07:42:53 AM
Posted by the same person:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68792206_2334178099952964_1605200076479660032_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQlsxeNRTu-AjiBOU-uXQnNtLHJ97J85VVHaEt49RkYgJRk0-T7NBQ3a_TKRhcdrPlI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=12f88aa03047d0f3574cc7732f3700ef&oe=5E0A8F95)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41430459_10156841434519548_449706079736037376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQlNJLZhu1WLlgGYj0X8UReV-6oqDIfVav6BY_DVR3MpVg9pATuPO2ULyv-YmFaDVTE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=64e008304d19b3dce19ebbe5cca3f258&oe=5E062C71)

:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 09, 2019, 08:06:52 AM
Yeah it doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 09, 2019, 12:22:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 06, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 02:09:51 PM
goal posts effectively moved. Well done.  We were talking about the left calling for people to be punished by being fired for their political beliefs.

They are not calling for people on the left to be fired for their political beliefs but expressing them.

Actually it was teaching political ideology, so a teacher who supports the principles of Liberal Democracy can no longer teach a civics class in the US?  What a world this has become.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 09, 2019, 12:28:58 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 09, 2019, 12:22:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 06, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 02:09:51 PM
goal posts effectively moved. Well done.  We were talking about the left calling for people to be punished by being fired for their political beliefs.

They are not calling for people on the left to be fired for their political beliefs but expressing them.

Actually it was teaching political ideology, so a teacher who supports the principles of Liberal Democracy can no longer teach a civics class in the US?  What a world this has become.


American conservatives don't believe in "Liberal Democracy".  If you ask them, they will bizarrely tell you that the US is Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 09, 2019, 01:15:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 09, 2019, 12:28:58 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 09, 2019, 12:22:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 06, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 06, 2019, 02:09:51 PM
goal posts effectively moved. Well done.  We were talking about the left calling for people to be punished by being fired for their political beliefs.

They are not calling for people on the left to be fired for their political beliefs but expressing them.

Actually it was teaching political ideology, so a teacher who supports the principles of Liberal Democracy can no longer teach a civics class in the US?  What a world this has become.


American conservatives don't believe in "Liberal Democracy".  If you ask them, they will bizarrely tell you that the US is Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy.

That's more of a big L Libertarian thing, or a the view of someone overly hung up on semantics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: derspiess on September 09, 2019, 02:03:29 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 09, 2019, 12:28:58 PM
If you ask them, they will bizarrely tell you that the US is Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy.

Yeah, that shit needs to stop.  Getting tired of correcting people. Yes, we are a republic but we are also a Representative Democracy.  The two are not mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on September 09, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Agreed with Spicy. People bleating about us being republic-not-a-democracy have no understanding of our governmental system or what those terms are supposed to mean.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on September 09, 2019, 03:06:55 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 09, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Agreed with Spicy. People bleating about us being republic-not-a-democracy have no understanding of our governmental system or what those terms are supposed to mean.

This surprises... who? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 09, 2019, 03:08:33 PM
President Bartlet said that the US isn't a democracy but a republic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 09, 2019, 06:30:34 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 09, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Agreed with Spicy. People bleating about us being republic-not-a-democracy have no understanding of our governmental system or what those terms are supposed to mean.

Or perhaps, they like the idea that the American republic silences and censors certain types of people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 09, 2019, 06:53:41 PM
Which type is that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 09, 2019, 07:09:08 PM
The type of people authoritarians disagree with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 09, 2019, 07:21:32 PM
Do you mean people being silenced hypothetically or in actuality?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 09, 2019, 07:40:05 PM
What I am saying is that a not insignificant number of conservatives are now peddling the point that the United States is a Republic because they support distortion in the democratic process, whether existing ones, like the electoral college, or gerrymandering, or some they seem to aspire to, notably the power of the executive, or a variety of restrictions on the vote.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 09, 2019, 07:55:29 PM
I don't see the connection between any of that and whether the US is a "representative republic."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 09, 2019, 08:05:02 PM
Spend some time on twitter, or right-wing boards, or comment sections. "America is not a democracy" is convened to fight critiques of Presidential fiat, arguments invoking majority opinion, and critiques of the electoral college - to name a few.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 09, 2019, 08:41:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 09, 2019, 07:55:29 PM
I don't see the connection between any of that and whether the US is a "representative republic."
The connection is that republic by definition doesn't have to be all that representative, it just has to be lacking a monarch.  Assad's Syria is a republic.  Now, you don't have to take it all the way there, but you do get some wiggle room to play with when democratic ideals get a little annoying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 09, 2019, 08:58:37 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 09, 2019, 08:41:34 PM
The connection is that republic by definition doesn't have to be all that representative, it just has to be lacking a monarch.  Assad's Syria is a republic.  Now, you don't have to take it all the way there, but you do get some wiggle room to play with when democratic ideals get a little annoying.

I meant the empirical connection, not the logical one.  Sorry I wasn't clear.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 09, 2019, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 09, 2019, 08:05:02 PM
Spend some time on twitter, or right-wing boards, or comment sections. "America is not a democracy" is convened to fight critiques of Presidential fiat, arguments invoking majority opinion, and critiques of the electoral college - to name a few.


There is some really weird shit being talked about in Right-wing circles.  Libertarians have flirted with the idea of monarchy for a while, but the way evangelicals talk about Trump...  Though few say explicitly they are in favor of a monarchy, and in many cases I don't think they fully understand what they are saying, the arguments they make for Trump are the same arguments that were made for monarchs.  The idea that the President's authority comes from God rather than the people.  God raises up a king...  Several influential evangelicals have compared Trump to Cyrus the Great.  I get the feeling they don't know much more about Cyrus than was in the Bible, since "Iranian multi-Culturalist" would not be first thing that comes to my mind when you mention Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on September 10, 2019, 01:34:24 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 09, 2019, 08:41:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 09, 2019, 07:55:29 PM
I don't see the connection between any of that and whether the US is a "representative republic."
The connection is that republic by definition doesn't have to be all that representative, it just has to be lacking a monarch.  Assad's Syria is a republic.  Now, you don't have to take it all the way there, but you do get some wiggle room to play with when democratic ideals get a little annoying.

Syria isn't a republic in any meaningful sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 10, 2019, 07:15:08 AM
Quote from: dps on September 10, 2019, 01:34:24 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 09, 2019, 08:41:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 09, 2019, 07:55:29 PM
I don't see the connection between any of that and whether the US is a "representative republic."
The connection is that republic by definition doesn't have to be all that representative, it just has to be lacking a monarch.  Assad's Syria is a republic.  Now, you don't have to take it all the way there, but you do get some wiggle room to play with when democratic ideals get a little annoying.

Syria isn't a republic in any meaningful sense.
The Assads have won the popular vote by 99.99% since old Hafez came into power through peaceful democratic means.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 10, 2019, 08:00:57 AM
Not all republics are liberal republics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2019, 08:29:55 AM
Quote from: dps on September 10, 2019, 01:34:24 AM
Syria isn't a republic in any meaningful sense.

Well it is not an monarchy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2019, 08:31:14 AM
What's wrong with the word "dictatorship"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2019, 08:35:50 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2019, 08:31:14 AM
What's wrong with the word "dictatorship"?

Didn't the Roman Republic invent that word? Still a Republic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on September 10, 2019, 09:07:41 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 09, 2019, 08:58:37 PM
I meant the empirical connection, not the logical one.  Sorry I wasn't clear.
Basically what Oex said. You can dismiss any criticism of something being undemocratic because "actually the US is a republic".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2019, 11:41:12 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2019, 08:35:50 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2019, 08:31:14 AM
What's wrong with the word "dictatorship"?

Didn't the Roman Republic invent that word? Still a Republic.

Their dictatorship was temporary. It was not a quasi-monarchy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 10, 2019, 12:36:03 PM
Quote from: dps on September 10, 2019, 01:34:24 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 09, 2019, 08:41:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 09, 2019, 07:55:29 PM
I don't see the connection between any of that and whether the US is a "representative republic."
The connection is that republic by definition doesn't have to be all that representative, it just has to be lacking a monarch.  Assad's Syria is a republic.  Now, you don't have to take it all the way there, but you do get some wiggle room to play with when democratic ideals get a little annoying.

Syria isn't a republic in any meaningful sense.

It's an "Arab Republic". As usual the Devil's in the detail.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 10, 2019, 12:37:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2019, 08:35:50 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2019, 08:31:14 AM
What's wrong with the word "dictatorship"?

Didn't the Roman Republic invent that word? Still a Republic.

The Roman Kingdom was in many ways a republic in the style of old Poland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 10, 2019, 02:30:49 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 10, 2019, 11:41:12 AM
Their dictatorship was temporary. It was not a quasi-monarchy.

A republic comes from the latin res publica, or "thing of the people."  In a republic, the people are sovereign and all policy is the peoples' policy, not the private policy of the monarch or the religious policy of the god.  The peoples' policy is generally carried out by their representatives, but that's not always the case.  The R in USSR stood for "republic" and there was no meaningful representation of the people in the government.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 10, 2019, 05:20:12 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69850656_2660569277367402_3697941772131893248_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeEB-aU1oLMAilG6NazCUxw23UWVept5LNwfo24viiQqLDUuTfF5zjgkxkzfAVCEgU9NZMYGGaFB3dWkN0Oa6MyPMVhk7qnjwwKO-FVJl_PWKQ&_nc_oc=AQmlI-YowkhA1j11_4AhIfSGs6IV1MUxr2avXT2rlDO21wUh8eyJHJT3B-s--sf9HjA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=c27865a651ba0e9ce9c35deac03f4cd2&oe=5E15C03F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 11, 2019, 01:05:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67949356_2360980607270607_1660865631479660544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQlLD27JhQaBRMqeqfH6fn9U-gWPD19fO5GWTpRuwImy6UgbHIkIpKmizGUodNrzNW4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e215f18e508ab6097e007a2de91bc05f&oe=5DF1D479)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 11, 2019, 12:43:53 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69388451_2515150955209176_4464747550779375616_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQkLNNLfewwF4CExqIwYsSOQMVXXCmN_yWkbowY_Ms1qmFAIYYcXexP_D-MGb6NdLdo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6bf4ed0bebba494f840b25f16e076b11&oe=5E3DC87E)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41428498_2208513999437952_9193409743702458368_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQnsIVMIrlwpGVKHXntq0vVxiyzEuEwneGzBTLX4FC0Taz1HYhjv55DOnW6obQytPJQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=338b930df09761bf64a4d667682d4feb&oe=5DF6AF5A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 11, 2019, 09:26:53 PM
Right-wing Germans really shouldn't be bring up the phrase "Never Forget".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2019, 12:58:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54799247_10216213258498788_4842226325139750912_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQkQCpnF1C9zBuGq6O7hZBBFzFJMz9N53do-5Dhu5a7oaSNXzlb7JaRy36AZM1hyVOk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=16170bb71be44dd431e3fce3bb0089b2&oe=5DF4DE63)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 12, 2019, 02:14:39 AM
Nice pic of a well-ordered militia. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 12, 2019, 03:41:58 AM
Heh, Americans don't need guns, they just need to roll down a hill and will squash the Chinese invaders.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 12, 2019, 04:20:37 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 12, 2019, 03:41:58 AM
Heh, Americans don't need guns, they just need to roll down a hill and will squash the Chinese invaders.

True, we are well off enough that we don't have to worry about famine like Hungary does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 12, 2019, 04:35:03 AM
Here I am making a fat joke and you coming in all serious-like.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 12, 2019, 04:44:33 AM
^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 12, 2019, 08:41:27 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 12, 2019, 02:14:39 AM
Nice pic of a well-ordered militia. :)

No kidding.
If the idea of that picture was to make the point that the 2.5 million PLA could easily steamroll 70 million wannabes with ARs, it succeeded.
I have no doubt that the Chinese military games out potential conflicts with the US in great detail and no doubt that civilian American gunowners do not factor one iota in that analysis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2019, 10:59:48 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69586848_1129345007255982_7640961439099781120_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQnMHFg5XH2OOWe20xQoUSm3rSkOAUP4FUcj7FEUb4x7lYlLvp7oyMLGgRofavWLCxY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=51e265dbf88935083c3f9618691e8c48&oe=5E12DC39)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on September 12, 2019, 11:15:50 AM
I get it, guns don't kill people.  It is mostly the bullets that do the killing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 12, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
We are going to use government data to prove that government is lying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 12, 2019, 11:56:57 AM
I'm pretty sure the 19,200 suicides by gun and the 960 accidental gun deaths are a big problem.

I'm also pretty sure I don't want gang members shooting at each other, even if they're not shooting at me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 12, 2019, 12:09:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 12, 2019, 11:56:57 AM
I'm pretty sure the 19,200 suicides by gun and the 960 accidental gun deaths are a big problem.

I'm also pretty sure I don't want gang members shooting at each other, even if they're not shooting at me.

I do appreciate the honesty. The message was that really all those people would be killed anyway and guns are not dangerous to have around. But really it is that those deaths were caused by guns but tens of thousands is a worthwhile sacrifice for our gun rights. We are just going to accept that tens of thousands are going to die but it is worth it.

I do wonder if the same person posting about how 30,000 is no big deal, and not a problem at all and anybody claiming otherwise is a liar, is the same one howling about 4 people being killed in Benghazi or 11,000 killed on September 11th.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on September 12, 2019, 12:23:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 12, 2019, 12:09:34 PM
I do wonder if the same person posting about how 30,000 is no big deal, and not a problem at all and anybody claiming otherwise is a liar, is the same one howling about 4 people being killed in Benghazi or 11,000 killed on September 11th.

11,000?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 12, 2019, 12:27:38 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 12, 2019, 08:41:27 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 12, 2019, 02:14:39 AM
Nice pic of a well-ordered militia. :)

No kidding.
If the idea of that picture was to make the point that the 2.5 million PLA could easily steamroll 70 million wannabes with ARs, it succeeded.
I have no doubt that the Chinese military games out potential conflicts with the US in great detail and no doubt that civilian American gunowners do not factor one iota in that analysis.

I would go so far as to say that Chinese militia system which has actual training, standardized arms, and superior weapons maintained in centralized locations, could probably defeat an army of unorganized of overweight 50 year old men any day of the week.  Of course the enemy these militia types have in mind aren't foreign, just as the enemies militiamen were effective against in the 18th and 19th century weren't foreign, of even armed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 12, 2019, 12:36:28 PM
Quote from: frunk on September 12, 2019, 12:23:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 12, 2019, 12:09:34 PM
I do wonder if the same person posting about how 30,000 is no big deal, and not a problem at all and anybody claiming otherwise is a liar, is the same one howling about 4 people being killed in Benghazi or 11,000 killed on September 11th.

11,000?

Ok it appears I thought a significantly larger number of people died on 9/11 than really died. 3,000 then, only 10% of not a problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2019, 12:57:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 12, 2019, 12:09:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 12, 2019, 11:56:57 AM
I'm pretty sure the 19,200 suicides by gun and the 960 accidental gun deaths are a big problem.

I'm also pretty sure I don't want gang members shooting at each other, even if they're not shooting at me.

I do appreciate the honesty. The message was that really all those people would be killed anyway and guns are not dangerous to have around. But really it is that those deaths were caused by guns but tens of thousands is a worthwhile sacrifice for our gun rights. We are just going to accept that tens of thousands are going to die but it is worth it.

I do wonder if the same person posting about how 30,000 is no big deal, and not a problem at all and anybody claiming otherwise is a liar, is the same one howling about 4 people being killed in Benghazi or 11,000 killed on September 11th.

Yes
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 12, 2019, 01:09:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 12, 2019, 11:56:57 AM
I'm pretty sure the 19,200 suicides by gun and the 960 accidental gun deaths are a big problem.

I'm also pretty sure I don't want gang members shooting at each other, even if they're not shooting at me.

Where do they get the stat that 80% of firearm deaths are "gang related"? CDC reports dont seem to list that.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf

Also - you don't have to die to be a victim of a gun-related crime, such as being robbed at gunpoint.

QuoteAccording to the National Crime Victimization Survey, 467,321 persons were victims of a crime committed with a firearm in 2011.[1] In the same year, data collected by the FBI show that firearms were used in 68 percent of murders, 41 percent of robbery offenses and 21 percent of aggravated assaults nationwide.[2]

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/gun-violence-america#gangs

Given that the US population in 2011 was 311 million, using these folks' approach to stats, you have a 0.15 percent chance, per year, of being a victim of a gun-related crime. over one's lifespan, that's pretty significant - 12% (assuming an 80 year lifespan). So something like one in eight will, on average, be a victim of gun-related crime at some point in their life ... 

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 12, 2019, 02:24:49 PM
When they say "gang-related" they mean, non-white.  Otherwise it makes no sense because gangs do not exclusively victimize other gang members.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 12, 2019, 02:35:00 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 12, 2019, 12:57:22 PM

Yes

I have to say that person has very arbitrary and bizarre values. They are like Mono.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 13, 2019, 12:05:09 AM
No, it's quite consistent. Everything Republican = pure good. Everything Democrat = pure evil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 16, 2019, 01:27:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70488947_2565356210194646_3194946396771844096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlPpBCinmPAcF8oGxN__3kXVHJ33xzSPDRL0xxGhaQ2pY1SXan-Ua5Qq9QjQPmbB_Y&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6b3bc0aadbf4bb1a72315cb183515dcd&oe=5E030DBE)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58444589_560103547817068_2812172696534646784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQnhDBAenBwFRHB8XmEmPVGZP8Coa4Fcfr7aJLFDcw5Qo5FOT4-TKn4wIZrr9LueMWw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c0d1eb772331a12b8882630e0bf8ed49&oe=5DF8C1C7)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70887582_423740578492230_8633628453943377920_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQlU5QSwGOx_BdaQHUTYr-Rug4ZZ9avVsGAVQC-cTLK_7UJKSf18iXU9JigQkOhFlVA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=81dc746a62bf84a6b2dd5e08a77f5d63&oe=5E3C8C22)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 16, 2019, 08:11:15 AM
I have to hand it to your family, Syt. They are unbelievably persistent. They just post the same tired shit for years. I think I would tire of this even if somebody was paying me to do it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 16, 2019, 08:14:57 AM
Hitting "Share" isn't hard. Hell, I've seen the same memes shared twice within an hour from each other.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 16, 2019, 08:21:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 16, 2019, 08:14:57 AM
Hitting "Share" isn't hard. Hell, I've seen the same memes shared twice within an hour from each other.

The same unfunny nonsensical memes carrying the same messages over and over again for literally years though.

I don't even get half of them. Are there really black and Asian pride parades going down the street with any regularity? Why are they so annoyed by this non-existent menace?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on September 16, 2019, 08:32:06 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2019, 08:21:01 AM
Why are they so annoyed by this non-existent menace?

Actual menace has inconvenient facts that get in the way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 16, 2019, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2019, 08:11:15 AM
I have to hand it to your family, Syt. They are unbelievably persistent. They just post the same tired shit for years. I think I would tire of this even if somebody was paying me to do it.
I really think it's mental illness, or at least a type of addiction.  Obviously some pleasure center activated whenever you see a meme like that, which makes your rational brain shut off, and it seems like with time you need a bigger fix. 

I really hope humanity finds a vaccine against this illness, because social media has been a highly potent new vector of spread.  I think this is probably an even more pressing problem than climate change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 16, 2019, 10:32:52 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 16, 2019, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2019, 08:11:15 AM
I have to hand it to your family, Syt. They are unbelievably persistent. They just post the same tired shit for years. I think I would tire of this even if somebody was paying me to do it.
I really think it's mental illness, or at least a type of addiction.  Obviously some pleasure center activated whenever you see a meme like that, which makes your rational brain shut off, and it seems like with time you need a bigger fix. 

I really hope humanity finds a vaccine against this illness, because social media has been a highly potent new vector of spread.  I think this is probably an even more pressing problem than climate change.

A friend of mine, smart guy, posted that meme that has Washington saying something like "When the government takes the rights of citizens to own guns, the government loses the right to govern". I knew that was a bullshit quote, if for no other reason than anyone who knows Washingtons view on the "mob" knows he would never say something like that. Now, the guy who shared the meme isn't some arch conservative or anything, more of your standard 20something libertarian.

So I googled it, and sure enough, he never said that. No quote of him saying anything of the kind exists anywhere.

I point this out to him, and he actually gets pissed off at me. He says basically that he just shared a meme, HE didn't say it, so why was I giving him crap about it?

I was kind of at a loss. I mean, if you share something that isn't true, wouldn't you WANT to know that it wasn't true?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 16, 2019, 11:24:10 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 16, 2019, 10:32:52 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 16, 2019, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2019, 08:11:15 AM
I have to hand it to your family, Syt. They are unbelievably persistent. They just post the same tired shit for years. I think I would tire of this even if somebody was paying me to do it.
I really think it's mental illness, or at least a type of addiction.  Obviously some pleasure center activated whenever you see a meme like that, which makes your rational brain shut off, and it seems like with time you need a bigger fix. 

I really hope humanity finds a vaccine against this illness, because social media has been a highly potent new vector of spread.  I think this is probably an even more pressing problem than climate change.

A friend of mine, smart guy, posted that meme that has Washington saying something like "When the government takes the rights of citizens to own guns, the government loses the right to govern". I knew that was a bullshit quote, if for no other reason than anyone who knows Washingtons view on the "mob" knows he would never say something like that. Now, the guy who shared the meme isn't some arch conservative or anything, more of your standard 20something libertarian.

So I googled it, and sure enough, he never said that. No quote of him saying anything of the kind exists anywhere.

I point this out to him, and he actually gets pissed off at me. He says basically that he just shared a meme, HE didn't say it, so why was I giving him crap about it?

I was kind of at a loss. I mean, if you share something that isn't true, wouldn't you WANT to know that it wasn't true?


Nope.  People resent being told they are wrong.  You would think the opposite is true, I mean I know I've reevaluated positions due to new evidence and I have been fooled by stuff on the internet.  I didn't get mad at the people who proved that I got punked, though I got mad at myself for allowing myself to be fooled and resentful toward the people who tricked me, but this appears to be a minority position.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 16, 2019, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 16, 2019, 10:32:52 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 16, 2019, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 16, 2019, 08:11:15 AM
I have to hand it to your family, Syt. They are unbelievably persistent. They just post the same tired shit for years. I think I would tire of this even if somebody was paying me to do it.
I really think it's mental illness, or at least a type of addiction.  Obviously some pleasure center activated whenever you see a meme like that, which makes your rational brain shut off, and it seems like with time you need a bigger fix. 

I really hope humanity finds a vaccine against this illness, because social media has been a highly potent new vector of spread.  I think this is probably an even more pressing problem than climate change.

A friend of mine, smart guy, posted that meme that has Washington saying something like "When the government takes the rights of citizens to own guns, the government loses the right to govern". I knew that was a bullshit quote, if for no other reason than anyone who knows Washingtons view on the "mob" knows he would never say something like that. Now, the guy who shared the meme isn't some arch conservative or anything, more of your standard 20something libertarian.

So I googled it, and sure enough, he never said that. No quote of him saying anything of the kind exists anywhere.

I point this out to him, and he actually gets pissed off at me. He says basically that he just shared a meme, HE didn't say it, so why was I giving him crap about it?

I was kind of at a loss. I mean, if you share something that isn't true, wouldn't you WANT to know that it wasn't true?

Maybe he didn't like that you hate America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 16, 2019, 11:31:34 AM
Is there any way to derail the train that calls these posters "memes?"  The word "meme" has an actual meaning.  An image with some words associated with it isn't a "meme," or is a mere torrent of words without an image.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 16, 2019, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 16, 2019, 10:32:52 AM

I point this out to him, and he actually gets pissed off at me. He says basically that he just shared a meme, HE didn't say it, so why was I giving him crap about it?

I was kind of at a loss. I mean, if you share something that isn't true, wouldn't you WANT to know that it wasn't true?

Your clinging to concepts like truth truly makes you a relic of a bygone era.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 16, 2019, 11:48:38 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 16, 2019, 11:31:34 AM
Is there any way to derail the train that calls these posters "memes?"  The word "meme" has an actual meaning.  An image with some words associated with it isn't a "meme," or is a mere torrent of words without an image.

They are called "memes" because they evolve as they move from person to person like in the pseudoscience of memes.  Still, I liked it better when we called this "Propaganda".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 16, 2019, 11:50:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 16, 2019, 11:31:34 AM
Is there any way to derail the train that calls these posters "memes?"  The word "meme" has an actual meaning.  An image with some words associated with it isn't a "meme," or is a mere torrent of words without an image.

Merriam Webster defines "meme", among others, as "an amusing or interesting item (such as a captioned picture or video) or genre of items that is spread widely online especially through social media". I do agree that "amusing" or "interesting" doesn't seem to apply.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 16, 2019, 12:03:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 16, 2019, 11:50:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 16, 2019, 11:31:34 AM
Is there any way to derail the train that calls these posters "memes?"  The word "meme" has an actual meaning.  An image with some words associated with it isn't a "meme," or is a mere torrent of words without an image.

Merriam Webster defines "meme", among others, as "an amusing or interesting item (such as a captioned picture or video) or genre of items that is spread widely online especially through social media". I do agree that "amusing" or "interesting" doesn't seem to apply.

Nor does "widely spread."  A meme is an idea that takes on a life of its own, mutating and spreading through survival of the fittest.  Not every stupid idea is a meme, even when shared on facebook.  In fact, I'd argue that Facebook can have no memes because it lacks people with the ability to think up any original ideas or successfully modify those of others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 16, 2019, 12:43:32 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 16, 2019, 12:03:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 16, 2019, 11:50:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 16, 2019, 11:31:34 AM
Is there any way to derail the train that calls these posters "memes?"  The word "meme" has an actual meaning.  An image with some words associated with it isn't a "meme," or is a mere torrent of words without an image.

Merriam Webster defines "meme", among others, as "an amusing or interesting item (such as a captioned picture or video) or genre of items that is spread widely online especially through social media". I do agree that "amusing" or "interesting" doesn't seem to apply.

Nor does "widely spread."  A meme is an idea that takes on a life of its own, mutating and spreading through survival of the fittest.  Not every stupid idea is a meme, even when shared on facebook.  In fact, I'd argue that Facebook can have no memes because it lacks people with the ability to think up any original ideas or successfully modify those of others.

I agree, but I think that ship has sailed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on September 18, 2019, 10:25:12 AM
My cousin posted this. My aunt, also his cousin, called him out on it. Cold war ensued.

(https://i.redd.it/37zxosvjnwe31.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 18, 2019, 10:42:38 AM
As it has been pointed out many times, it is funny how according to the "patriots" everything should be controlled vigorously because it makes sense, including abortion rights. But GUNS, now there's just no point in doing anything, it just WON'T work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 18, 2019, 11:23:48 AM
But what if they do try to buy guns in stores? Is the claim being made no gun that was purchased ever was used doing something illegal?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 18, 2019, 11:46:06 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/39go36.jpg)

(False, as a 30 second Google search confirmed)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 18, 2019, 11:53:11 AM
I hope you told your nutbar family it was false.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 18, 2019, 11:57:24 AM
I reported it to Facebook as fake news.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on September 18, 2019, 12:01:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 18, 2019, 11:57:24 AM
I reported it to Facebook as fake news.

Tangentially related article on Facebook moderating and its associated perils.

QuoteRevealed: catastrophic effects of working as a Facebook moderator
Exclusive: Job has left some 'addicted' to extreme material and pushed others to far right

The task of moderating Facebook continues to leave psychological scars on the company's employees, months after efforts to improve conditions for the company's thousands of contractors, the Guardian has learned.

A group of current and former contractors who worked for years at the social network's Berlin-based moderation centres has reported witnessing colleagues become "addicted" to graphic content and hoarding ever more extreme examples for a personal collection. They also said others were pushed towards the far right by the amount of hate speech and fake news they read every day.

They describe being ground down by the volume of the work, numbed by the graphic violence, nudity and bullying they have to view for eight hours a day, working nights and weekends, for "practically minimum pay".

A little-discussed aspect of Facebook's moderation was particularly distressing to the contractors: vetting private conversations between adults and minors that have been flagged by algorithms as likely sexual exploitation.

Such private chats, of which "90% are sexual", were "violating and creepy", one moderator said. "You understand something more about this sort of dystopic society we are building every day," he added. "We have rich white men from Europe, from the US, writing to children from the Philippines ... they try to get sexual photos in exchange for $10 or $20."

Gina, a contractor, said: "I think it's a breach of human rights. You cannot ask someone to work fast, to work well and to see graphic content. The things that we saw are just not right."

The workers, whose names have been changed, were speaking on condition of anonymity because they had signed non-disclosure agreements with Facebook. Daniel, a former moderator, said: "We are a sort of vanguard in this field ... It's a completely new job, and everything about it is basically an experiment."

John, his former colleague, said: "I'm here today because I would like to avoid other people falling into this hole. As a contemporary society, we are running into this new thing – the internet – and we have to find some rules to deal with it.

"It's important to create a team, for example in a social network, aiming to protect users from abusers, hate speech, racial prejudice, better pornographic software, etc. But I think it's important to open a debate about this job. We need to share our stories, because people don't know anything about us, about our job, about what we do to earn a living."

Some of the moderators' stories were similar to the problems experienced in other countries. Daniel said: "Once, I found a colleague of ours checking online, looking to purchase a Taser, because he started to feel scared about others. He confessed he was really concerned about walking through the streets at night, for example, or being surrounded by foreign people.

"Maybe because all this hate speech we have to face every day affects our political view somehow. So a normal person, a liberal person, maybe also a progressive person, can get more conservative, more concerned about issues like migrants for example. Indeed, many of the hate speech contents we receive on a daily basis are fake news ... which aim to share very particular political views."

In February, the technology site the Verge produced one of the first behind-the-scenes reports from a US Facebook contractor. Similar to their Berlin colleagues, the Americans reported that "the conspiracy videos and memes that they see each day gradually led them to embrace fringe views", and that a former moderator "now sleeps with a gun at his side" after he was traumatised by a video of a stabbing.

Others were dealing with trauma by self-medicating. Just as the Arizona moderators were reportedly turning to drugs and alcohol, so were those in Germany. "I saw a lot of big consumer drugs in the company," Daniel said. "We don't have any way to destress. The company, technically, is against drugs."

When trying to go down a more legitimate route of self-help, the American moderators complained about the psychological help that was provided. "The on-site counsellors were largely passive," the Verge reporter Casey Newton wrote, "relying on workers to recognise the signs of anxiety and depression and seek help."

Berlin moderators were also critical of the counselling services provided and suggested they leaned too heavily on the state's universal healthcare.

Daniel said: "In the end, we didn't have proper psychological support. We had some colleagues who went to the [counsellor], and when they showed that they had real problems, they were invited to go outside the company and find a proper psychologist."

The Verge report appeared to trigger reforms. Moderators in Berlin said after the article was published there had been immediate interest from Facebook's head office in their workload. Previously, they had been required to moderate 1,000 pieces of content a day – more than one every 30 seconds over an eight-hour shift.

In February, an official from Facebook's Dublin office visited, John said. "This person after this meeting decided to take off the limit of 1,000. We didn't have any limit for a while, but now they have re-established another limit. The limit now is between 400 and 500 tickets." The new cap – or number of tickets – was half that of the previous one but still required workers achieve about a ticket a minute. However, that volume of work was what their American colleagues had faced before the reforms.

Berlin moderators have discussed whether to seek help from the unions, but say the nature of the work makes it difficult. Gina said: "I wouldn't say no one is interested, but no one has the possibility to do something for real."

John added: "They are so tired."

While the moderators agreed such work was necessary they said the problems were fixable. Daniel said: "I think it's important to open a debate about this job," adding that the solution was simple – "hire more people".

In a statement, Facebook said: "Content moderators do vital work to keep our community safe, and we take our responsibility to ensure their wellbeing incredibly seriously. We work closely with our partners to ensure they provide the support people need, including training, psychological support and technology to limit their exposure to graphic content.

"Content moderation is a new and challenging industry, so we are always learning and looking to improve how it is managed. We take any reports that our high standards are not being met seriously and are working with our partner to look into these concerns."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on September 18, 2019, 12:15:38 PM
Yikes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 18, 2019, 12:18:54 PM
Radiolab did an episode about this a year or so ago. Extremely disturbing but not unexpected, and FB's answer has been characteristically despicable
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 18, 2019, 12:20:37 PM
Read about this a while ago, it's extremely gruelling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 18, 2019, 12:40:17 PM
Quote from: merithyn on September 18, 2019, 10:25:12 AM
My cousin posted this. My aunt, also his cousin, called him out on it. Cold war ensued.

(https://i.redd.it/37zxosvjnwe31.jpg)


Well, it's  good that your cousin was so open about his criminality.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
I could use some elaboration on that "keep focusing on the good people" part.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on September 18, 2019, 01:11:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
I could use some elaboration on that "keep focusing on the good people" part.

The meme is supposedly from a criminal, glad that Democrats are trying to keep guns out of the hands of good people with new laws, instead of out of his hands.

That comment is the criminal telling Democrats to keep the focus there instead of on the criminals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 18, 2019, 01:40:32 PM
How do background checks keep guns out of good peoples' hands?

I mean I am certainly not opposed to focussing on black market weapons, but without gun registries how do we do that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2019, 01:45:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 18, 2019, 01:40:32 PM
How do background checks keep guns out of good peoples' hands?

That's what I was thinking when I asked my question, but I suppose it could be argued that things like assault rifle, bump stock, double magazine etc. bans are "focusing on good people."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on September 18, 2019, 01:55:17 PM
Why does nobody remember when jungle gym privileges were taken away from everyone because Jimmy went around hurting people who were hanging from the monkey bars?

Or any other time "good people" had to suffer a bit because some "bad people" fucked it up for the rest?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 18, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 18, 2019, 01:40:32 PM
How do background checks keep guns out of good peoples' hands?

I mean I am certainly not opposed to focussing on black market weapons, but without gun registries how do we do that?

I think they are worried about gun confiscation.  I'm really tired of these dishonest arguments.  Our system of law is based around the prohibition of certain acts or goods.  Why should an exception exist for firearms?  Do these people really believe as soon as you commit an unlawful act an entire black market opens up to you?  Do they think that once a person has committed a crime, they will commit will be filled with a desire to commit all crimes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 18, 2019, 03:27:31 PM
Ok but then that is the problem. They keep bringing up issues that should be addressed. Black market weapons. Organized crime. Hint you are fine with gun control so long as law abiding citizens can have whatever weapons they need. Mental illness should be addressed.

I mean I am perfectly willing to try to address this issue at whatever angle everybody agrees is ok. But in order to do that people at least need to be honest about what should be done. Don't say you think we need to delve deep into mental illness or black market weapons if you do not actually mean that.

Of course I have seen no statistics or evidence that suggests most of the guns used to commit crimes are done with black market weapons, but hey probably some of them are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 18, 2019, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: PDH on September 18, 2019, 01:55:17 PM
Why does nobody remember when jungle gym privileges were taken away from everyone because Jimmy went around hurting people who were hanging from the monkey bars?

Because we didn't go to school with you, Jim.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on September 18, 2019, 05:19:23 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 18, 2019, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: PDH on September 18, 2019, 01:55:17 PM
Why does nobody remember when jungle gym privileges were taken away from everyone because Jimmy went around hurting people who were hanging from the monkey bars?

Because we didn't go to school with you, Jim.

We didn't get monkey bars.  I went to a Catholic school that felt kids played best when tackling each other on an asphalt playground.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 18, 2019, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: PDH on September 18, 2019, 05:19:23 PM
We didn't get monkey bars.  I went to a Catholic school that felt kids played best when tackling each other on an asphalt playground.

So we have identified the problem.  You are like a sinking ship with no baggage to throw overboard.*




*compliments to Mark Twain
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on September 18, 2019, 07:12:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 18, 2019, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: PDH on September 18, 2019, 05:19:23 PM
We didn't get monkey bars.  I went to a Catholic school that felt kids played best when tackling each other on an asphalt playground.

So we have identified the problem.  You are like a sinking ship with no baggage to throw overboard.*




*compliments to Mark Twain
This boat sank a long time ago.  I ain't even got any flotsam left.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 18, 2019, 07:25:47 PM
Quote from: PDH on September 18, 2019, 07:12:50 PM
This boat sank a long time ago.  I ain't even got any flotsam left.

Lack of jetsam is understandable, lack of flotsam is tragic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 18, 2019, 10:24:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 18, 2019, 01:40:32 PM
How do background checks keep guns out of good peoples' hands?
If, say, someone, hypothetically threatens to kill liberals, I can see why the GOP might think they are good people.  Honest mistake.  If only they'd known before he killed 200 people at a Democratic convention that he was serious...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 18, 2019, 10:29:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 18, 2019, 03:27:31 PM
Of course I have seen no statistics or evidence that suggests most of the guns used to commit crimes are done with black market weapons, but hey probably some of them are.
Depends wich crime, I guess.
"Crimes" in general, most likely they are legitimate guns since they,re so easy to get by.
Organized crime, where people actually don't want to be fun and don't post a video of themselves online before committing their crime, I figure they must be black market guns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 18, 2019, 11:25:30 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70231703_10162246487085026_3514736854039527424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmQMl6Wy6IO0blzB_jI2vaoxJKOW1ViVnDwtXOExIpZiZWj16rEGWTTyUYJfY2yXGM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b9fd1440ac467c91a6e4afdd4945d329&oe=5E3DA484)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 18, 2019, 11:36:19 PM
AMERICA- FUCK YEAH!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 19, 2019, 12:00:52 AM
I believe that Gage advanced on Concord in the belief that the colonists had cannon, powder and carriages for the cannons there.  The American resistance was a great blow in service of the right to bear brass cannons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 19, 2019, 10:47:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 18, 2019, 03:27:31 PM
Ok but then that is the problem. They keep bringing up issues that should be addressed. Black market weapons. Organized crime. Hint you are fine with gun control so long as law abiding citizens can have whatever weapons they need. Mental illness should be addressed.

I mean I am perfectly willing to try to address this issue at whatever angle everybody agrees is ok. But in order to do that people at least need to be honest about what should be done. Don't say you think we need to delve deep into mental illness or black market weapons if you do not actually mean that.

Of course I have seen no statistics or evidence that suggests most of the guns used to commit crimes are done with black market weapons, but hey probably some of them are.


Are they bringing up the contraband goods that already are prohibited?  Child Pornography, Nerve Gas, Slaves... are the laws against such items only punishing the law-abiding because because "Criminals don't follow the law?"  As far as I know the prohibition on Nerve gas has been rather successful in the US.  There have been no nerve gas attacks in the US that I know of.  And Nerve gas is an "Arm", it should be protected by the 2nd amendment, but nobody seems bothered by the fact it isn't.

I don't mind delving into Mental illness, though I have a feeling the people who are saying that we should look at mental illness don't understand what the fuck they are saying.  The DSM V cover a whole bunch of behaviors.  Behaviors that large numbers of people engage in and don't consider it a mental health problem. Let's tie mental illness to firearm ownership.  Require a psych eval before you can purchase a weapon and mandatory eval every five years to make sure you are still free any mental hygiene problems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2019, 04:10:33 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71905845_2404906856231330_8548407051431182336_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQnxa6G3QzBvTXPFsgp7-o6n4busOSvx9n1pChrEQ349utVVPGSIsrj7DwMSZ8Qu75Y&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=df31481bd11be7cacc244e5827c743db&oe=5E039970)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 23, 2019, 06:32:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 23, 2019, 04:10:33 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71905845_2404906856231330_8548407051431182336_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQnxa6G3QzBvTXPFsgp7-o6n4busOSvx9n1pChrEQ349utVVPGSIsrj7DwMSZ8Qu75Y&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=df31481bd11be7cacc244e5827c743db&oe=5E039970)

Well yes, the real faces of people who experience racism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 23, 2019, 07:50:56 PM
Yeah I have heard that for years. Obama was called the most racist President ever. James K Polk, who speculated in slave trading while in office, had nothing on the racist crimes of Obama apparently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 24, 2019, 12:31:52 AM
I'm sure I've seen this one before, but anyway, it's back, and it's still good :D
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f84/15/65/04/57/soup10.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 25, 2019, 01:20:54 AM
QuoteCammy Miller Kretschmar is with Chris Park and 3 others.
September 13 at 10:47 AM
Written by a 26 year old college student by the name of Alyssa Ahlgren, who's in grad school for her MBA.

AOC AND THE BLIND GENERATION

My Generation Is Blind to the Prosperity Around Us!

I'm sitting in a small coffee shop near Nokomis (Florida) trying to think of what to write about. I scroll through my newsfeed on my phone looking at the latest headlines of presidential candidates calling for policies to "fix" the so-called injustices of capitalism. I put my phone down and continue to look around.

I see people talking freely, working on their MacBook's, ordering food they get in an instant, seeing cars go by outside, and it dawned on me. We live in the most privileged time in the most prosperous nation and we've become completely blind to it.

Vehicles, food, technology, freedom to associate with whom we choose.These things are so ingrained in our American way of life we don't give them a second thought.

We are so well off here in the United States that our poverty line begins 31 times above the global average. Thirty One Times!!!
Virtually no one in the United States is considered poor by global standards. Yet, in a time where we can order a product off Amazon with one click and have it at our doorstep the next day, we are unappreciative, unsatisfied, and ungrateful. ??

Our unappreciation is evident as the popularity of socialist policies among my generation continues to grow.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez recently said to Newsweek talking about the millennial generation, "An entire generation, which is now becoming one of the largest electorates in America, came of age and never saw American prosperity."

"NEVER SAW AMERICAN PROSPERITY!" Let that sink in!

When I first read that statement, I thought to myself, that was quite literally the most entitled and factually illiterate thing I've ever heard in my 26 years on this earth. Many young people agree with her, which is entirely misguided.

My generation is being indoctrinated by a mainstream narrative to actually believe we have never seen prosperity. I know this first hand, I went to college, let's just say I didn't have the popular opinion, but I digress.

Why then, with all of the overwhelming evidence around us, evidence that I can even see sitting at a coffee shop, do we not view this as prosperity? We have people who are dying to get into our country.

People around the world are destitute and truly impoverished.

Yet, we have a young generation convinced they've never seen prosperity, and as a result, we elect some politicians who are dead set on taking steps towards abolishing capitalism.

Why? The answer is this...My generation has ONLY seen prosperity. WE HAVE NO CONTRAST!

We didn't live in the great depression, or live through two world wars, the Korean War, The Vietnam War Nor did WE see the rise and fall of socialism and communism.

We don't know what it's like to live without the internet, without cars, without smartphones. We don't have a lack of prosperity problem; WE HAVE AN ENTITLEMENT PROBLEM, an UNGRATEFULNESS problem, and it's spreading like a plague."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 25, 2019, 02:24:37 AM
Alyssa has a point. Clearly the American politician who declared "American carnage" and an economy in "disaster" in 2016 is an ungrateful crank who should be shunned for his "factual illiteracy"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 25, 2019, 02:20:46 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71003599_2495021197213248_3971308512012664832_o.png?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQm2CKKUu9DTi43tq_t6sbrVCnOQrZzRYNcZqxGzzTTzPdQKNyKrlP2XR6kXtHHPHrU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=56f9603ffe7e805e285ae2ea800c4106&oe=5DF8EEC1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 25, 2019, 02:46:14 PM
What's wrong with public transportation?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 25, 2019, 02:48:14 PM
It's a progressive cause. Thus evil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on September 25, 2019, 02:51:42 PM
No rides either, the point is being assholes and punishing the kids by making them walk because they dare to act on climate change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:52:09 PM
Well public transportation does in fact contribute to global warming, if you view the alternative as walking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2019, 02:54:01 PM
So once the kids do that, what is it you plan to do adults?

Let's be passive aggressive and assholes to children that will...do something...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:52:09 PM
Well public transportation does in fact contribute to global warming, if you view the alternative as walking.

Not, if hydro or nuclear powered, as in electric métros or trams. :smarty:.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on September 25, 2019, 02:56:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:52:09 PM
Well public transportation does in fact contribute to global warming, if you view the alternative as walking.

That's autistic-tastic, Yi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
Not, if hydro or nuclear powered, as in electric métros or trams. :smarty:.

What country has 100% hydro and nuclear electricity generation?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 25, 2019, 03:09:36 PM
Iceland is at 85% renewable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2019, 03:17:17 PM
Texas is at 30%.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
Not, if hydro or nuclear powered, as in electric métros or trams. :smarty:.

What country has 100% hydro and nuclear electricity generation?

France is 62% Nukes, 20% Hydro, and 10% wind and solar. Iowa is over 40% wind and nukes by the way. Not too shabby.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 25, 2019, 03:23:22 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
Not, if hydro or nuclear powered, as in electric métros or trams. :smarty:.

What country has 100% hydro and nuclear electricity generation?

Manitoba is 97% hydro, 2% wind, with everything else being under 1%.   :cool:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2019, 03:23:40 PM
I mean I do have friends who just went off the grid to live like our ancestors of yore and decided not to have kids so they could live guilt free and morally pure. But what good does that hairshirt shit actually do? Nothing. Because this is not a system of religious moral values we are trying to spread that requires people to live in a pure way. We are talking about an actual problem, a real threat to us and our way of life, and ways we can respond to that threat.

So this "practice what you preach" stuff as if we are preaching no meat on fridays is stupid. Unless the regular way people live their lives changes it will not actually impact anyway.

And really the way we live our lives doesn't actually have to change that much. Produce electricity without emissions. Boom that is most of the problem right there. And it can practically be done.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 03:26:46 PM
Right, I'm not saying in order for a global warming activist to have moral standing they have to be at zero emissions personally, I was just answering Beeb's question about public transpo.  There's also the consideration that public transpo doesn't run 100% on electricity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 25, 2019, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
Not, if hydro or nuclear powered, as in electric métros or trams. :smarty:.

What country has 100% hydro and nuclear electricity generation?
While not a country, Quebec is close to 100% renewable energy.  And we have surplus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2019, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
Not, if hydro or nuclear powered, as in electric métros or trams. :smarty:.

What country has 100% hydro and nuclear electricity generation?

The smart ones.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 25, 2019, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
Not, if hydro or nuclear powered, as in electric métros or trams. :smarty:.

What country has 100% hydro and nuclear electricity generation?

BC is 100% Hydro.

edit, we also have private solar and wind feeding into the grid.  We were going to supply Alberta with our new hydro project, but with the the new government there, not sure that will happen.  Quebec can also supply those on the East coast.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2019, 03:50:18 PM
Swedish electricity generation is completely dominated by nuclear and hydro + wind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on September 25, 2019, 03:57:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 25, 2019, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
Not, if hydro or nuclear powered, as in electric métros or trams. :smarty:.

What country has 100% hydro and nuclear electricity generation?

BC is 100% Hydro.

edit, we also have private solar and wind feeding into the grid.  We were going to supply Alberta with our new hydro project, but with the the new government there, not sure that will happen.  Quebec can also supply those on the East coast.

BC is also the largest coal exporter in North America, mainly to Asian countries.  BC likes to wag their finger at Alberta but they have their own skeletons in the closet on this subject.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 25, 2019, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: PRC on September 25, 2019, 03:57:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 25, 2019, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 25, 2019, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
Not, if hydro or nuclear powered, as in electric métros or trams. :smarty:.

What country has 100% hydro and nuclear electricity generation?

BC is 100% Hydro.

edit, we also have private solar and wind feeding into the grid.  We were going to supply Alberta with our new hydro project, but with the the new government there, not sure that will happen.  Quebec can also supply those on the East coast.

BC is also the largest coal exporter in North America, mainly to Asian countries.  BC likes to wag their finger at Alberta but they have their own skeletons in the closet on this subject.

Yep, a lot of those mines that were approved in the past continue to have mine life - hard to get a new mine approved these days though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on September 25, 2019, 11:59:28 PM
Here is an overview of energy generation in Europe:
(https://i.redd.it/9o0hf6hzzoo31.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 26, 2019, 01:15:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71371307_2450551998315809_6759975711529762816_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmjCH6_2EAbUiyXE1G1QVej3ODdM5pnauYPW6h9EvsdgfqAVFizNMKxAPUU49WFPYc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=09f03455a83afc97166a952d0944e5a4&oe=5E3A46CD)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on September 26, 2019, 02:52:15 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFVuMuMXUAAoJrL?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on September 26, 2019, 03:16:18 AM
Quote from: Zanza on September 25, 2019, 11:59:28 PM
Here is an overview of energy generation in Europe:
-snip-
Whoa.  Coaland not Poland, eh?  Lithuania has done an amazing job switching over to renewables.  Seems like there must be an interesting story there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 26, 2019, 04:11:55 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on September 26, 2019, 03:16:18 AM
Quote from: Zanza on September 25, 2019, 11:59:28 PM
Here is an overview of energy generation in Europe:
-snip-
Whoa.  Coaland not Poland, eh?  Lithuania has done an amazing job switching over to renewables.  Seems like there must be an interesting story there.

Doesn't Poland export energy to Germany nowadays?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on September 26, 2019, 05:26:53 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on September 26, 2019, 03:16:18 AM
Quote from: Zanza on September 25, 2019, 11:59:28 PM
Here is an overview of energy generation in Europe:
-snip-
Whoa.  Coaland not Poland, eh?  Lithuania has done an amazing job switching over to renewables.  Seems like there must be an interesting story there.

I don't know where they got their numbers from, but official data puts Lithuania at 28% renewables in 2016, rather than the lanslide presented in that graph.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 08:08:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 26, 2019, 01:15:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71371307_2450551998315809_6759975711529762816_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmjCH6_2EAbUiyXE1G1QVej3ODdM5pnauYPW6h9EvsdgfqAVFizNMKxAPUU49WFPYc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=09f03455a83afc97166a952d0944e5a4&oe=5E3A46CD)

*weary sigh*

No....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 08:09:33 AM
Somewhere Margaret Thatcher is smiling at that UK graph.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on September 26, 2019, 09:27:58 AM
So, as someone who hasn't done much (any) research into the Biden connection, what do I read up on or post to people that are just mindlessly repeating Jim Jordan's comments there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 26, 2019, 09:39:38 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 25, 2019, 03:45:31 PM
BC is 100% Hydro.

edit, we also have private solar and wind feeding into the grid.  We were going to supply Alberta with our new hydro project, but with the the new government there, not sure that will happen.  Quebec can also supply those on the East coast.

Your figure is not correct CC.

BC produces 90% of its electricity from hydro, 6% biomass/geothermal, 2% natural gas, 1% wind, and <1% petroleum.

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/mrkt/nrgsstmprfls/bc-eng.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 26, 2019, 09:51:43 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 26, 2019, 09:39:38 AM
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/mrkt/nrgsstmprfls/bc-eng.html

From that website.

QuoteVirtually all of the electricity produced in Quebec comes from renewable sources. In 2016, Quebec's power sector generated 0.3 MT CO2e emissions, which represents 0.4% of Canada's GHG emissions from power generation.
Pretty cool figure for my province.

In 2017, BC produce 76.4 TW.H of Electricity
Alberta, 82.4 TW.H
Ontario, 152 TW.H
Quebec, 212.3 TW.H
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 26, 2019, 10:11:55 AM
I know I started this with posting Manitoba's 99% renewables rate, but we should avoid too much back-patting.  All three are based on hydro.  BC, Quebec and Manitoba have very favourable geography for hydro power (so does Ontario, but they also have a massive population).

That's just not doable in other jurisdictions (like Alberta).  There's some room for cross-border electricity sales, but those three provinces don't have the generating capacity to power all of Canada through hydro.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 26, 2019, 10:13:17 AM
Alberta's far from QC but if you want to buy, we will build plants to generate it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on September 26, 2019, 10:15:10 AM
Hydro is also pretty environmentally damaging, but concentrated locally rather than global.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on September 26, 2019, 10:16:19 AM
It could probably provide a decent baseline. I wonder how set up costs compare to nuclear.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 26, 2019, 10:47:23 AM
Quote from: Maximus on September 26, 2019, 10:16:19 AM
It could probably provide a decent baseline. I wonder how set up costs compare to nuclear.

Depends on where, though in the US at least it appears to be cheaper than nuclear: see "Projected LCOE in the U.S. by 2022 (as of 2016) $/MWh" (LCOE factors in the costs of the plant: "The levelized cost of electricity (LCOE), also known as Levelized Energy Cost (LEC), is the net present value of the unit-cost of electrical energy over the lifetime of a generating asset. It is often taken as a proxy for the average price that the generating asset must receive in a market to break even over its lifetime. It is a first-order economic assessment of the cost competitiveness of an electricity-generating system that incorporates all costs over its lifetime: initial investment, operations and maintenance, cost of fuel, cost of capital.").

Problem is of course that hydro is only available in certain places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#United_States
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 26, 2019, 10:47:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d446rCau-Q8
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 26, 2019, 11:13:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 08:08:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 26, 2019, 01:15:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71371307_2450551998315809_6759975711529762816_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmjCH6_2EAbUiyXE1G1QVej3ODdM5pnauYPW6h9EvsdgfqAVFizNMKxAPUU49WFPYc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=09f03455a83afc97166a952d0944e5a4&oe=5E3A46CD)

*weary sigh*

No....

I'm not understanding why the Right seems to be flipping out over the fact that Hunter Biden once earned $50,000 dollars in a single month.  That's not a huge figure, and Rudy Giuliani charges more than that for a single speech.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 26, 2019, 11:49:24 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 26, 2019, 11:13:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 08:08:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 26, 2019, 01:15:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71371307_2450551998315809_6759975711529762816_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmjCH6_2EAbUiyXE1G1QVej3ODdM5pnauYPW6h9EvsdgfqAVFizNMKxAPUU49WFPYc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=09f03455a83afc97166a952d0944e5a4&oe=5E3A46CD)

*weary sigh*

No....

I'm not understanding why the Right seems to be flipping out over the fact that Hunter Biden once earned $50,000 dollars in a single month.  That's not a huge figure, and Rudy Giuliani charges more than that for a single speech.

Sounds like a lot to those who don't make that much in a year?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 26, 2019, 11:50:19 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 26, 2019, 09:39:38 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 25, 2019, 03:45:31 PM
BC is 100% Hydro.

edit, we also have private solar and wind feeding into the grid.  We were going to supply Alberta with our new hydro project, but with the the new government there, not sure that will happen.  Quebec can also supply those on the East coast.

Your figure is not correct CC.

BC produces 90% of its electricity from hydro, 6% biomass/geothermal, 2% natural gas, 1% wind, and <1% petroleum.

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/mrkt/nrgsstmprfls/bc-eng.html

The natural gas and biomass is related to industrial use.  Some industries that use natural gas for heating have also created co-generation plants to produce both heat and electricity. Ie the same fuel is used for both purposes.  Same with biomass.  The Forestry sector generates a lot of biomass at the mill, the parts that are otherwise unusable are used to generate electricity.

Everyone else is powered by hydro and the private solar and wind.

So at best you are quibbling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 26, 2019, 11:54:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 26, 2019, 11:50:19 AM
The natural gas and biomass is related to industrial use.  Some industries that use natural gas for heating have also created co-generation plants to produce both heat and electricity. Ie the same fuel is used for both purposes.  Same with biomass.  The Forestry sector generates a lot of biomass at the mill, the parts that are otherwise unusable are used to generate electricity.

Everyone else is powered by hydro and the private solar and wind.

So at best you are quibbling.

How is it quibbling to point out that 90% is not 100%.

Thanks for explaining where the biomass figure comes from.  Makes sense.

The CER (the former NEB) figures show that solar is negligible in BC.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 26, 2019, 11:55:54 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 26, 2019, 11:13:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 08:08:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 26, 2019, 01:15:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71371307_2450551998315809_6759975711529762816_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmjCH6_2EAbUiyXE1G1QVej3ODdM5pnauYPW6h9EvsdgfqAVFizNMKxAPUU49WFPYc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=09f03455a83afc97166a952d0944e5a4&oe=5E3A46CD)

*weary sigh*

No....

I'm not understanding why the Right seems to be flipping out over the fact that Hunter Biden once earned $50,000 dollars in a single month.  That's not a huge figure, and Rudy Giuliani charges more than that for a single speech.

Who are the fools paying Rudy that much?   :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 26, 2019, 12:05:34 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 26, 2019, 11:55:54 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 26, 2019, 11:13:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 08:08:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 26, 2019, 01:15:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71371307_2450551998315809_6759975711529762816_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmjCH6_2EAbUiyXE1G1QVej3ODdM5pnauYPW6h9EvsdgfqAVFizNMKxAPUU49WFPYc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=09f03455a83afc97166a952d0944e5a4&oe=5E3A46CD)

*weary sigh*

No....

I'm not understanding why the Right seems to be flipping out over the fact that Hunter Biden once earned $50,000 dollars in a single month.  That's not a huge figure, and Rudy Giuliani charges more than that for a single speech.

Who are the fools paying Rudy that much?   :huh:

People who want to buy access to the president, I presume.  Plus, maybe some companies still paying him back for the back-door deals he arranged while a "consultant." 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 12:08:48 PM
Trump has the advantage of a simpler narrative.  Somebody on the Democratic side has to start explaining to the American public how an American demand to investigate corruption at Hunter's company was consistent with Hunter sitting on that company's board.  If Hunter has to be thrown under the bus, then so be it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 26, 2019, 12:12:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 12:08:48 PM
Trump has the advantage of a simpler narrative.  Somebody on the Democratic side has to start explaining to the American public how an American demand to investigate corruption at Hunter's company was consistent with Hunter sitting on that company's board.  If Hunter has to be thrown under the bus, then so be it.

I think the Dems have the simpler narrative: Trump was leveraging hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid in order for the Ukrainians to dig up dirt on his political rivals.

The problems with the Trump narrative: if Trump was so concerned about corruption, why did he only mention two very specific, and now finished, instances?  Why would both potentially benefit him politically?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2019, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 12:08:48 PM
Trump has the advantage of a simpler narrative.  Somebody on the Democratic side has to start explaining to the American public how an American demand to investigate corruption at Hunter's company was consistent with Hunter sitting on that company's board.  If Hunter has to be thrown under the bus, then so be it.

Hunter Biden is not an officer or employee of the US government and had no government position since 2001. There is nothing illegal or improper about a private citizen sitting on the board of a foreign company and zero evidence that he did anything improper while a member of the board. It's really no different from say Jeb Bush getting paid over $1 million per year to consult at Lehman Brothers at the same time his brother was President during the 07-08 financial crisis and making decisions about Treasury support, bail outs, etc.. One could name dozens of similar examples.

The question is why Joe Biden was allowed to carry out Obama administration policy in Ukraine despite the apparent conflict of interest posed by his son's position at Burisma.  We don't yet know what analysis the Obama people did in that respect.  But we can guess.  At the time, the Obama administration policy, carried out in conjunction with its (then :() European allies, was to push for the resignation of Prosecutor General Shokin, who had gained notoriety for blocking judicial reform and for refusing to prosecute corruption cases arising out the prior Russian puppet regime. Shokin was hit by massive street protests in the Ukraine and ultimately was removed by a overwhelming vote in the Ukrainian parliament.  Biden was involved in the diplomatic effort.  However, there wouldn't have been any perceived conflict re Burisma because Shokin wasn't doing anything to investigate or prosecute Burisma. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 26, 2019, 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 12:08:48 PM
Trump has the advantage of a simpler narrative.  Somebody on the Democratic side has to start explaining to the American public how an American demand to investigate corruption at Hunter's company was consistent with Hunter sitting on that company's board.  If Hunter has to be thrown under the bus, then so be it.

And simple followers
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 03:00:37 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2019, 02:48:33 PM
Hunter Biden is not an officer or employee of the US government and had no government position since 2001. There is nothing illegal or improper about a private citizen sitting on the board of a foreign company and zero evidence that he did anything improper while a member of the board. It's really no different from say Jeb Bush getting paid over $1 million per year to consult at Lehman Brothers at the same time his brother was President during the 07-08 financial crisis and making decisions about Treasury support, bail outs, etc.. One could name dozens of similar examples.

The Jeb Bush analogy is apples and oranges.  First because a consultant is not a member of a board.  Second because Lehman has not been accused of criminal activity.

Hunter had a fiduciary duty to prevent corruption at Burisma.  Just as there is no evidence he did anything improper, there is also no evidence that he was stymied in his virtuous efforts to combat corruption by a conspiracy to deny him the relevant information.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2019, 03:00:59 PM
Also the inquiry into Burisma was basically a garden variety tax probe.  They were accused on underpaying tax in the years prior to Hunter Biden joining the board.  The matter was settled when Burisma made some back tax payments.  There was no reason for Hunter Biden to believe himself personally at risk from the probe.  On the contrary, he and several other "names" were hired to make the company look better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 26, 2019, 03:02:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 12:08:48 PM
Trump has the advantage of a simpler narrative.  Somebody on the Democratic side has to start explaining to the American public how an American demand to investigate corruption at Hunter's company was consistent with Hunter sitting on that company's board. 

The American demand came before Hunter Biden worked for them.  He, and the other foreign board members, were supposed to be part of the solution to the corruption problem by getting some outside eyes on the decisions being made.  Someone on the Republican side has to start explaining why American demand to investigate corruption was being carried out by the President's personal lawyer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 03:05:01 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2019, 03:00:59 PM
Also the inquiry into Burisma was basically a garden variety tax probe.  They were accused on underpaying tax in the years prior to Hunter Biden joining the board.  The matter was settled when Burisma made some back tax payments.  There was no reason for Hunter Biden to believe himself personally at risk from the probe.  On the contrary, he and several other "names" were hired to make the company look better.

Help me get the chronology straight.  Please put the following into order.

Burisma underpays taxes
Burisma settles and pays back taxes
Joe withholds aid to get AG fired
Hunter joins board
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 26, 2019, 03:05:36 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71509374_2337594279622797_4928466661398282240_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmrJQXVyOu02Dm66O7v1uBG1xGyTlWiqHwmB39LRaKozAz4DRQ_fHMgcJeQ5rDUCLU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=48abe4083eb0d8da6d4cfd6a4b91793f&oe=5E33F60A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on September 26, 2019, 03:06:50 PM
Ted Cruz's dad helped killed JFK, but we're investigating Trump? Preposterous!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 26, 2019, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 03:00:37 PM
Hunter had a fiduciary duty to prevent corruption at Burisma.  Just as there is no evidence he did anything improper, there is also no evidence that he was stymied in his virtuous efforts to combat corruption by a conspiracy to deny him the relevant information.

There's no evidence that Burisma was engaged in corrupt practices after Biden and other outsiders were invited to join the board, as far as I know.  All of the investigations revolved around activities before they joined.

That said, there's no doubt in my mind that his hiring was related to his being the Veep's son.  But the argument could be made that his relationship with the Veep made him less susceptible to pressure to cut ethical corners because of the visibility he had.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 03:07:55 PM
I mean you are free to prove any of those allegations against a dead man, but yeah abuses by a sitting President are more important than those by dead men.

I mean whataboutism to the 10th power.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2019, 03:10:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 03:00:37 PM
The Jeb Bush analogy is apples and oranges.  First because a consultant is not a member of a board.  Second because Lehman has not been accused of criminal activity.

The bankruptcy examiners report found evidence that senior officers and directors at Lehman Brothers breached their fiduciary duty.  The report did not make findings against outside directors because the Lehman Brothers' corporate charter waived all liability of violations of the fiduciary duty of care, as permitted by Delaware law.

In contrast, I have seen no evidence at all of wrongdoing at Burisma during Hunter Biden's tenure.  I'm not saying there wasn't any, but it's pure speculation to say so.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 26, 2019, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 03:07:55 PM
I mean you are free to prove any of those allegations against a dead man, but yeah abuses by a sitting President are more important than those by dead men.

I mean whataboutism to the 10th power.

Hunter Biden is quite alive, I think. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 26, 2019, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2019, 03:10:14 PM
fiduciary duty.

Is that that you have to have sex with your spouse?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 26, 2019, 03:13:24 PM
Also I believe the sleeping with your brother's widow is not only Biblically sanctioned, but arguably obligatory.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 26, 2019, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 03:07:55 PM
I mean you are free to prove any of those allegations against a dead man, but yeah abuses by a sitting President are more important than those by dead men.

I mean whataboutism to the 10th power.

Hunter Biden is quite alive, I think. :unsure:

Oh. I see, bustin' Joe had multiple sons.

Well see? Investigate and substantiate these charges against this private citizen. But I think it is also important what the President is doing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 26, 2019, 03:24:23 PM
Quote from: Maximus on September 26, 2019, 10:15:10 AM
Hydro is also pretty environmentally damaging, but concentrated locally rather than global.
Only for the first 10 years, then it declines and CO2 emissions disapear entirely after 30 years and the ecosystem has adapted to it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 26, 2019, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: viper37 on September 26, 2019, 03:24:23 PM
Quote from: Maximus on September 26, 2019, 10:15:10 AM
Hydro is also pretty environmentally damaging, but concentrated locally rather than global.
Only for the first 10 years, then it declines and CO2 emissions disapear entirely after 30 years and the ecosystem has adapted to it.

It makes areas uninhabitable at normal operation. You will only survive a few minutes without expensive and complicated equipment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on September 26, 2019, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: Zanza on September 25, 2019, 11:59:28 PM
Here is an overview of energy generation in Europe:
(https://i.redd.it/9o0hf6hzzoo31.jpg)

We're the worst  :(

Lithuania is very impressive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 26, 2019, 04:33:41 PM
Nah, that's Poland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 26, 2019, 04:36:08 PM
Quote from: Maladict on September 26, 2019, 04:30:30 PM
Lithuania is very impressive.

And feels a little misleading...

I am thinking the reason is (from quick/cheap googling), that while domestic energy production there is only 30%-ish renewable...they apparently import 70% of their energy from Sweden.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 26, 2019, 04:36:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 26, 2019, 04:33:41 PM
Nah, that's Poland.

I was going to say Cyprus, but if you factor in that gas is cleaner than coal, it's probably Poland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 26, 2019, 04:51:30 PM
Yeah WTH Nederlands? I thought you were famous for windmills?

Next thing you know the Dutch will be last in Europe for numbers of wooden shoes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2019, 10:01:06 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71275754_2467686606601613_3283725084472115200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQm25TljajSIN5zBIMouLWuh1TKlcmlHGnFbFiEYCermfc0EHx4dYEGZSU3iFo4nX90&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=883ccca2f39c8b7a57956e12f1b0f6a7&oe=5E2D309F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 29, 2019, 10:14:09 AM
All of the above I'd imagine.
Ignorant far right fucks just don't listen to 8/9 of them.
The 9th they listen to just so they can insult her.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2019, 01:14:34 PM
Were all those other kids polled?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 30, 2019, 02:17:27 AM
Massive reading comp fail

QuoteYou have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words. And yet I'm one of the lucky ones. People are suffering. People are dying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 30, 2019, 09:03:06 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71909391_953581018335283_1376888088994775040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQlqP-PJalwaII0IPIVngpQbuRKJBdXppDdGKwJlk_9uDIHYszxz57fk6ZaQl8Jv6t8&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2095930ef0e10a3cf6f8e8af42d1adcf&oe=5DF105D3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 30, 2019, 09:06:54 AM
The government just wants this shit to go away.

I do kind of get weirded out by the same people who talk about supporting cops are also claiming the only reason they have guns is to kill those same cops.

Finally: WTF does that image have to do with the message? Isn't that from Stranger Things? What does Stranger Things have to do with anything? Aren't memes supposed to have clever references? Or at least references that are references?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 30, 2019, 09:59:05 AM
Eh, the government in Stranger Things built a portal to a dimension with monsters. Not that I think that was a consideration of the memester.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2019, 12:35:33 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71101381_10156142454497581_4007330544458137600_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlqZxGzEgadA5R5QdToadIcKiYcUMqdbxvkDiAyXctmlQOAJZCed_fLgvtGbHz9S6w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f4e6751d225fc85c40e3d6d37eb3b411&oe=5DF35FC0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 02, 2019, 08:51:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 02, 2019, 12:35:33 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71101381_10156142454497581_4007330544458137600_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlqZxGzEgadA5R5QdToadIcKiYcUMqdbxvkDiAyXctmlQOAJZCed_fLgvtGbHz9S6w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f4e6751d225fc85c40e3d6d37eb3b411&oe=5DF35FC0)


Oooh, from a hategroup!  Edgy!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb6JeX6dvEk&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2XrlxCTwF7V8Pb2_xD_KNRbPz1JfquJpQvNn0bZAueL8swAdJ9_b7ThWc

QuoteNBC News: Hillary Clinton 'Covered Up' Pedophile Ring At State Department (2013)

NBC news from 2013 with Chuck Todd, Matt Lauer

It's claimed that Hillary Clinton, while secretary of state, shut down an investigation into an elite pedophile ring in State Department ranks in order to avoid scandal and protect the careers of high ranking officials and an ambassador.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 02, 2019, 11:49:26 AM
For the 100th time: if you have something on the Clintons go ahead and indict and arrest them. I don't give a shit.

Say what you want to about the Democrats, at least they are following through.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 02, 2019, 12:00:07 PM
Must be the same ring that runs Hollywood, and recruits hidden muslim actors for school shootings.

Seriously, however - the rhetoric of the deep state and conspiracy is scary as shit, because it's increasingly allowing Conservatives to portray themselves as defenders of - not Democracy - but "real" America. The fact that Trump is calling impeachment a coup, that he is retweeting civil war talk, that he is posting these geographical maps of all-red America - is much more dangerous than what people seem to believe. I mean, at the beginning of the Trump presidency, late night comedians turned somber about this sort of thing. Now, they are making fun of it. It's been normalized. Condemned, to be sure, but normalized.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 02, 2019, 12:07:16 PM
Hillary Clinton was covering up for Matt Lauer ?!?!?!  Say it ain't so!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 02, 2019, 12:22:23 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 02, 2019, 12:00:07 PM
Must be the same ring that runs Hollywood, and recruits hidden muslim actors for school shootings.

Seriously, however - the rhetoric of the deep state and conspiracy is scary as shit, because it's increasingly allowing Conservatives to portray themselves as defenders of - not Democracy - but "real" America. The fact that Trump is calling impeachment a coup, that he is retweeting civil war talk, that he is posting these geographical maps of all-red America - is much more dangerous than what people seem to believe. I mean, at the beginning of the Trump presidency, late night comedians turned somber about this sort of thing. Now, they are making fun of it. It's been normalized. Condemned, to be sure, but normalized.


Well when something happens several times a day for years it is, by definition, normal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2019, 12:25:30 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 02, 2019, 12:07:16 PM
Hillary Clinton was covering up for Matt Lauer ?!?!?!  Say it ain't so!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENXvZ9YRjbo
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 02, 2019, 12:25:46 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 02, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb6JeX6dvEk&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2XrlxCTwF7V8Pb2_xD_KNRbPz1JfquJpQvNn0bZAueL8swAdJ9_b7ThWc

QuoteNBC News: Hillary Clinton 'Covered Up' Pedophile Ring At State Department (2013)

NBC news from 2013 with Chuck Todd, Matt Lauer

It's claimed that ....

Any time a claim starts in passive voice, just stop reading.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 02, 2019, 12:50:14 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 02, 2019, 12:25:46 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 02, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb6JeX6dvEk&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2XrlxCTwF7V8Pb2_xD_KNRbPz1JfquJpQvNn0bZAueL8swAdJ9_b7ThWc

QuoteNBC News: Hillary Clinton 'Covered Up' Pedophile Ring At State Department (2013)

NBC news from 2013 with Chuck Todd, Matt Lauer

It's claimed that ....

Any time a claim starts in passive voice, just stop reading.

It's said that you shouldn't do that.

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 02, 2019, 12:50:54 PM
I mean at least put "sources are saying that..."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 02, 2019, 01:06:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 02, 2019, 12:50:54 PM
I mean at least put "sources are saying that..."

Except all too often, especially in reporting, "It's claimed...", or "It is said..." is really just a mask for "I want to say/claim..." to avoid outing themselves as an accuser.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on October 02, 2019, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 02, 2019, 01:06:33 PM

Except all too often, especially in reporting, "It's claimed...", or "It is said..." is really just a mask for "I want to say/claim..." to avoid outing themselves as an accuser.  :P

Or a moron.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2019, 03:32:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3AcMNDB3KA&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1j7yLg84JzdmuagvWxaVksxuME7abXtx0eTdrYL9V5OX-LO1jBEyhfo2U

QuoteTribute to Benghazi Heroes, we will never forget your murders

A tribute to our murdered American Heroes who were left to die at Benghazi. May their memories be eternal!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 02, 2019, 03:35:03 PM
They are welcome to investigate and prosecute whomever they feel is responsible if they have some evidence.

I grow weary of these accusations that never are attached to any action. It makes me suspicious that they are being entirely honest about their concerns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2019, 03:55:58 PM
Didn't they have like half a dozen hearings/investigations into Benghazi that didn't come up with anything?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 02, 2019, 04:00:14 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 02, 2019, 03:55:58 PM
Didn't they have like half a dozen hearings/investigations into Benghazi that didn't come up with anything?

Yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2019, 04:01:02 PM
I bet the smoking gun is on the secret Hillary server. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 02, 2019, 04:03:55 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 02, 2019, 03:55:58 PM
Didn't they have like half a dozen hearings/investigations into Benghazi that didn't come up with anything?

They didn't come up with anything implicating Secretary Clinton.
On the other hand, the fact that House Republicans gutted funding for embassy security was pretty well established.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 02, 2019, 08:37:14 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 02, 2019, 03:55:58 PM
Didn't they have like half a dozen hearings/investigations into Benghazi that didn't come up with anything?

And the Congressman who was most scathing about State Department fuckups was Mike Pompeo, now the SecState most irritated by Congress investigating the State Department.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 03, 2019, 09:39:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60305682_10219776081898808_5571052270629421056_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQmqazAIu6QJngrzaXO2VqDnpz8DTvXXZDrK-aPXcBI6Xrefmxd0H_D8hhW65kpcurw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5f9d047177786fbb443aa51f992c6930&oe=5E2FBEDE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 03, 2019, 09:43:11 AM
One consistent thing in all the nuttery far-right internet posts regardless of language (well, it's both in English and Hungarian at least) is their completely inability to make a post without any grammatical errors. It just does not happen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2019, 09:47:56 AM
This billboard is located in Houston

(https://exmuslims.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Image-from-iOS-1-1024x768.jpg)

The "enemy" is "defecting". So chill right wing nutcases. The same thing impacting your churches is also impacting their mosques.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2019, 11:35:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2019, 09:43:11 AM
One consistent thing in all the nuttery far-right internet posts regardless of language (well, it's both in English and Hungarian at least) is their completely inability to make a post without any grammatical errors. It just does not happen.
They're doing the best they can with the shit foreign language education their country provides. :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 03, 2019, 01:32:06 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2019, 11:35:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2019, 09:43:11 AM
One consistent thing in all the nuttery far-right internet posts regardless of language (well, it's both in English and Hungarian at least) is their completely inability to make a post without any grammatical errors. It just does not happen.
They're doing the best they can with the shit foreign language education their country provides. :angry:

^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 03, 2019, 02:25:44 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71893348_2464996150204727_1858383386352025600_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQkp1jrr0rPg9gDMafF-H3X7sDKb_P8prQWU0BD-0-AH3_m-h_s_Wt_vVl0Wz-NzlP0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=72b839beecc8b1647528559bfc890787&oe=5E35CF9B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 03, 2019, 04:02:27 PM
yeah, I've seen that alot.  Strangely, no mention that they asks us to repair their computers or whine that their phone/tablet isn't working anymore...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 03, 2019, 04:10:51 PM
It's funny they take a pic of Greta Thunberg: it seems to me at the age of 16 she's done a hell of a lot more than your typical baby boomer.

And I'm pretty sure the person posting that meme wasn't in the WW2 "Greatest generation" too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2019, 04:19:28 PM
Yeah Boomers, don't speak for your parents.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2019, 04:22:02 PM
Why do you assume it wasn't a Gen Xer or cranky millennial?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 03, 2019, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2019, 04:22:02 PM
Why do you assume it wasn't a Gen Xer or cranky millennial?

Because I don't think a Gen Xer or Millenial would think to take credit for WWII.  A baby boomer on the other hand...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2019, 04:58:20 PM
Baby boomers are also less tech savvy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 03, 2019, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 03, 2019, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2019, 04:22:02 PM
Why do you assume it wasn't a Gen Xer or cranky millennial?

Because I don't think a Gen Xer or Millenial would think to take credit for WWII.  A baby boomer on the other hand...
You would be wrong.  It's a thing about manual people.  They assume that if you can't do something with your hands, you are worthless.  But then they comme see you in the middle of the day at the office, ask you to fix their phone because it's supposedly not working anymore (reboot is so haaardd...) and you bought garbage.  Or they ask you to come home to fix their girlfriend's computer because she can't access his bank account anymore but then he's not available to be on the phone to reste his bank password that he keeps forgetting.

So many things a meme doesn't carry...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 03, 2019, 07:40:46 PM
It's also unfair to that Generation. The younger Zs are 7. Of course they can't start a lawn mower, they don't yet have the arm strength.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 04, 2019, 04:07:20 AM
I love the lawnmower meme. Reveals that the poster thinks starting a lawnmover is actually a technical skill.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 04, 2019, 09:47:15 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 03, 2019, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2019, 04:22:02 PM
Why do you assume it wasn't a Gen Xer or cranky millennial?

Because I don't think a Gen Xer or Millenial would think to take credit for WWII.  A baby boomer on the other hand...

A baby boomer in Germany or the former Soviet Union I assume.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 04, 2019, 11:48:11 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71496588_3069044063169582_478093395496009728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQk-owupKjLXtvbhuNxo4Vvw-fs1QI8y3U2oEdmZuLIdnsny1urHe7gJvbRyCtK-q6Q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5d6a1116ab000e6659ca7e2adafc9eba&oe=5E2F7F96)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 04, 2019, 11:51:21 AM
No we are upset about things he actually did, not things nobody did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2019, 12:07:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 04, 2019, 11:51:21 AM
No we are upset about things he actually did, not things nobody did.

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 04, 2019, 12:11:40 PM
So in Ryan's version of events liberals aren't upset with Trump at all?

Ryan seems... less able.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 05, 2019, 12:50:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71642287_1428644880608397_4903971195893841920_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQkNue5UHlaQ_giChrpnayejCMWAJ2hz4K89Y5u_v9gTdZfvtdXJn8naolPM9oBE8y0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=842f9c36851c30e357d7f89aba5a6c23&oe=5E274A7F)

Oh, and they also shared the Eric Trump post with the Gladiator quote. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 05, 2019, 12:55:34 AM
So lobby to get the law changed dickweed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 05, 2019, 01:00:10 AM
I mean you are already free to sue for whatever reason tough guy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 05, 2019, 08:59:33 AM
#WellOrganizedMilitia
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 05, 2019, 05:18:15 PM
The gun manufacturers trying to limit their civil liability would be just thrilled by that expansive notion of harm causation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 06, 2019, 01:15:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 04, 2019, 11:51:21 AM
No we are upset about things he actually did, not things nobody did.

I guess the conspiracy is Obama did these things?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 06, 2019, 01:37:40 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/14468410_10157674213965389_5664354814902747953_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQnIs3iRdJsIGc2_4BtLdArDzhcnMBiCv7Y-dEDlz96Wwm1CAcHBBZRTTEDvYzUWgTI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=382e144e76574ffe0bf72af1c9dbd5fd&oe=5E3D5283)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 06, 2019, 03:15:35 PM
Apple, meet orange.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 06, 2019, 03:30:02 PM
Orange is willing to meet almost anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 06, 2019, 03:56:07 PM
How does the fruit salad come into play? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 06, 2019, 05:43:20 PM
Saucier took illegal pictures of classified information on a nuclear sub.  He plea-bargained that down to "unlawful retention of national defense information" and got just a year for it, instead of life for espionage (though there was no evidence he was trying to sell the info or working for a foreign power).  He's now suing hordes of people (including Barack Obama) for applying a different standard to Hillary Clinton than was applied to him.  No lawyer will touch his suit.  He seems like a total nutcase, and it's scary that the screening process didn't keep him out of the service, let alone the submarine service.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 06, 2019, 07:00:56 PM
Hard to blame him when his lawyer validated his raving by presenting it as an legitimate argument in Court and then the President of the United States issued a pardon on the same basis.  The sentencing judge felt bad for him and was lenient, but probably should have noted the lack of willingness to accept responsibility and show true remorse and sentenced more harshly.  Trump would have let him off anyways for saying the magic safe word "Clinton"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 06, 2019, 07:02:36 PM
When our highest officials regularly make a mockery our legal system, why would we expect ordinary folk to treat it with any more respect?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 06, 2019, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 06, 2019, 05:43:20 PM
Saucier took illegal pictures of classified information on a nuclear sub.  He plea-bargained that down to "unlawful retention of national defense information" and got just a year for it, instead of life for espionage (though there was no evidence he was trying to sell the info or working for a foreign power).  He's now suing hordes of people (including Barack Obama) for applying a different standard to Hillary Clinton than was applied to him.  No lawyer will touch his suit.  He seems like a total nutcase, and it's scary that the screening process didn't keep him out of the service, let alone the submarine service.

Well, ya gotta be a bit cray to volunteer to serve in boats that are designed to sink.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 07, 2019, 12:15:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71081879_3047024475371541_2662176194992013312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQkWatr3bd-syA5ivFJL5ll2cq19-MVrSzhLOnhFGnahqUkleO4G1g2fcNY721YPV4I&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ff9533a39bc5fbdaf2d42e1b1a7d7b2b&oe=5DF04BE2)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72125220_2827746480617025_9123030700193218560_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQkXcJ3E8C_08UdPxHpwrHl3GVNiYI2IA3-2sLbDEilvKbn1FRdtONZVHX4yCIDf-hU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=80c85f6d230afd4511ed8cac76e620ad&oe=5E3853E5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 07, 2019, 12:18:09 AM
Are they aware of what the President is being impeached for? Because it is not taking donations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 07, 2019, 12:19:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 07, 2019, 12:18:09 AM
Are they aware of what the President is being impeached for? Because it is not taking donations.

My guess is the graphs (from a separate post) are meant to illustrate that it's really the Democrats colluding with Ukraine via the Clinton Foundation proxy.

I would like to see a similar chart showing Trump's income.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 07, 2019, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 07, 2019, 12:18:09 AM
Are they aware

No
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 07, 2019, 12:38:39 AM
They operate on the premise of Republicans = pro-Army/Veterans = more money for us, therefore everything Republican = awesome, and everything Democrat = enemy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 07, 2019, 06:32:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 07, 2019, 12:38:39 AM
They operate on the premise of Republicans = pro-Army/Veterans = more money for us, therefore everything Republican = awesome, and everything Democrat = enemy.

They who?  Syt's family?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 07, 2019, 06:49:04 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 07, 2019, 10:21:55 AM
"England"? Seems legit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 10, 2019, 12:04:02 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72369309_3157052184336071_5946769253699944448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQkFJxJ7OeMEtQOT-T8fO9Y6Zm9O97wQs3qAhgsYqJdc4GrFhyEnv9JXSTGI4l8KT8k&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dc2d893c966658ac6420035948a9c83d&oe=5E34F1B8)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70770265_1380265415471377_7539580522784096256_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmC472DnSV7dLVVuh6E2M5pFVmB8h_6osFuKQMduLylvB47NQz09sbSrJIR7hSIb8A&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5985426a5de479cd43a8e8148da5f28c&oe=5E2B0509)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2019, 10:57:59 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72141430_886692798398950_5486357224949284864_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQnQWsDHkbXPCVcVrnQhCrRkYWSka0tUiOlsBzQTkPL4CtKngmpwLT4HvWBPNiVzx7Y&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a909fa1bcd783e2d095e3daca5eb669f&oe=5E3B2FE3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 11:21:22 AM
Really? Hatred for engineers? What did we do to offend your family?

Anyway you might tell them that the Romans had many great engineers who trained for many years to develop their skills. So their basic point is a lie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 11:24:21 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 10, 2019, 12:04:02 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72369309_3157052184336071_5946769253699944448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQkFJxJ7OeMEtQOT-T8fO9Y6Zm9O97wQs3qAhgsYqJdc4GrFhyEnv9JXSTGI4l8KT8k&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dc2d893c966658ac6420035948a9c83d&oe=5E34F1B8)

Yeah nobody has ever discussed immigration before in the Senate.

Quote(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70770265_1380265415471377_7539580522784096256_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmC472DnSV7dLVVuh6E2M5pFVmB8h_6osFuKQMduLylvB47NQz09sbSrJIR7hSIb8A&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5985426a5de479cd43a8e8148da5f28c&oe=5E2B0509)

Who is "they" in this case?

And an anti-Trump tweet? Weird.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2019, 11:27:45 AM
I'm kind of stumped on what the hell that one is suppose to mean.  But I did come up with different version.

"Without a single degree, they built us roads that have lasted an eternity... and then the historians arrived and it turns out that the roads were designed by educated professionals, few of the roads have survived, and that 2300 years ago isn't an eternity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 11:28:14 AM
By the way didn't your family post something recently about how you should stop whining about low wage labor and go out and develop skills and now they are saying unskilled labor is way superior to people who have skills?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 11, 2019, 11:32:50 AM
It's not that difficult to build stuff that lasts forever if you dedicate enough resources to it.  The problem is that modern engineers understand that it rarely makes economic sense, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 11, 2019, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 11:28:14 AM
By the way didn't your family post something recently about how you should stop whining about low wage labor and go out and develop skills and now they are saying unskilled labor is way superior to people who have skills?

There's a lot of things wrong with that meme.

First of all potholes are most significantly a problem in areas with regular freeze-thaw cycles.  That's not typically an issue in a Mediterranean climate like Italy.  Second of course lots of people notes the Romans did indeed have skilled engineers.  Third lots of roman roads have not survived.  And fourth the Romans had a nifty labour-saving device called slaves that made a lot of things economical.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 11, 2019, 11:43:41 AM
Many hicks would love to pay for hand crafted roads.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 11, 2019, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 11, 2019, 11:43:41 AM
Many hicks would love to pay for hand crafted roads.

I think they meant to suggest that the military should be used to build roads not walls?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2019, 12:46:11 PM
I think the Roman military built roads.  Modern asphalt roads need to be able to withstand much heavier traffic by vehicles that are much heavier than wooden wagons.  Concrete road lasts longer, but isn't as economical.  The examples of Roman roads is so poorly informed it's difficult to answer.


Who has something against engineers?  I've never heard of that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 11, 2019, 12:56:59 PM
People who work with engineers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 12:57:32 PM
I think the idea is that experts are worthless and unskilled average joes know better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 11, 2019, 12:56:59 PM
People who work with engineers.

Nonsense. We are lovely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 11, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 11, 2019, 12:56:59 PM
People who work with engineers.

Nonsense. We are lovely.

:lol:

Book smart people that have no street smart sense. Sure. Lovely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 01:04:00 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 11, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
:lol:

Book smart people that have no street smart sense. Sure. Lovely.

Nonsense. Civil Engineers have plenty of street smart sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 11, 2019, 01:08:07 PM
"Street smarts" are for homeless drug addicts. No thanks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on October 11, 2019, 06:51:44 PM
I have heard one lawyer and one accountant both say "Engineers are the worst" in the last week.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 11, 2019, 07:56:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 12:57:32 PM
I think the idea is that experts are worthless and unskilled average joes know better.

That is an annoying trend in the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 12, 2019, 12:10:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 01:04:00 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 11, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
:lol:

Book smart people that have no street smart sense. Sure. Lovely.

Nonsense. Civil Engineers have plenty of street smart sense.

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on October 12, 2019, 04:20:37 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 11, 2019, 12:56:59 PM
People who work with engineers.

Nonsense. We are lovely.
:yes:

Quote from: PRC on October 11, 2019, 06:51:44 PM
I have heard one lawyer and one accountant both say "Engineers are the worst" in the last week.

Meh. Nobody likes lawyers. Accountants are those annoying individuals that make you glue and send to Slovakia your expense tickets every time you travel, when they could simply check the fucking corporate credit card logs. :bash:



As for whom engineers hate, I think this sketch sums it up rather well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 15, 2019, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 11:21:22 AM
Really? Hatred for engineers? What did we do to offend your family?

Anyway you might tell them that the Romans had many great engineers who trained for many years to develop their skills. So their basic point is a lie.
I do wonder how they constructed their roads, though.  How did they compact the gravel/sand so it would not collapse under the weight of chariots?  Also, for anyone who has ever seen a roman road, they had nice chariots wheel tracks on them that developped over time ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 15, 2019, 12:58:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2019, 01:04:00 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 11, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
:lol:

Book smart people that have no street smart sense. Sure. Lovely.

Nonsense. Civil Engineers have plenty of street smart sense.
unfortunately, not all of them, by far :P

I find that quite often, it results in a lack of a clear analysis by the engineer of the client's specific needs and the difficulty of the non technical client to correctly explain to his engineer.

Also, that some engineer will never visit the client's site themselves and refer to a technician's report that costs less to move around the province...

Engineers have to do with provincial/federal norms that sometimes are in conflict with a client's desires, and they often fail to communicate this properly to someone who does not ask the proper questions.  See, they just told me to use a product that would 20 000$ to repair a damage structure.  Turns out, with a little searching on my side, I could repair it for less than 500$.  With a product that was totally appropriate, and accepted by the engineer once I recommended it.  It's a product we used in the past, when these structures were mostly of a rectangular design instead of a circular one, to fill expansion joints in concrete.  It's hardly an unknown product...  But once I saw what was the problem, I knew what could be used... The engineer never bothered to check for that.  And during conception, it's often the same...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 15, 2019, 01:00:49 PM
Yeah it really sucks how I can never get funding to actually travel to a location. I always do it myself if it is within a decent range. "Hey kids do you want to go scout out a potential transmission line route?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 15, 2019, 02:05:25 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 15, 2019, 12:58:07 PM
And during conception, it's often the same...

:Embarrass:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 15, 2019, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on October 12, 2019, 04:20:37 AM


Meh. Nobody likes lawyers.

Correction: nobody likes lawyers ... until they need one.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 15, 2019, 03:49:53 PM
Nobody likes their lawyer either.  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 15, 2019, 03:59:59 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 15, 2019, 03:49:53 PM
Nobody likes their lawyer either.  :huh:

:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 15, 2019, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 15, 2019, 03:49:53 PM
Nobody likes their lawyer either.  :huh:

Often their lawyer is all that stands between them and some sort of horrible abyss of trouble. Cause that to go away, and the lawyer has literally saved them; they are a goddamn hero (until the bill, etc.  ;) ).

The pop culture 'everyone hates lawyers LOL' is good for a laugh. Mistaking it for reality is dumb. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 15, 2019, 04:46:35 PM
Most people like me, and I'm a lawyer. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 15, 2019, 04:49:13 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 15, 2019, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 15, 2019, 03:49:53 PM
Nobody likes their lawyer either.  :huh:

Often their lawyer is all that stands between them and some sort of horrible abyss of trouble. Cause that to go away, and the lawyer has literally saved them; they are a goddamn hero (until the bill, etc.  ;) ).

The pop culture 'everyone hates lawyers LOL' is good for a laugh. Mistaking it for reality is dumb.

I am guessing Eddie has no personal experience with that sort of thing and so can only base his judgments on pop culture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on October 15, 2019, 04:58:56 PM
I don't hate lawyers, but then again Shakespeare did have a point...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 15, 2019, 05:20:49 PM
Quote from: PDH on October 15, 2019, 04:58:56 PM
I don't hate lawyers, but then again Shakespeare did have a point...

Yeah, if you want to establish a nutter's pie-in-the-sky quasi-communist utopian dictatorship, killing all lawyers is **definitely** a good thing!  :lol:

So all those who want to worship Jack Cade as their lord ...

QuoteJACK CADE. Be brave, then; for your captain is brave, and vows reformation. There shall be in England seven half-penny loaves sold for a penny: the three-hoop'd pot shall have ten hoops; and I will make it felony to drink small beer: all the realm shall be in common; and in Cheapside shall my palfrey go to grass: and when I am king,– as king I will be,–

ALL. God save your majesty!

JACK CADE. I thank you, good people:– there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.

DICK. The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Jack CADE. Nay, that I mean to do.

-- Henry VI, Part 2, Act IV, Scene 2
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 16, 2019, 01:12:42 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 15, 2019, 04:40:34 PM
Often their lawyer is all that stands between them and some sort of horrible abyss of trouble. Cause that to go away, and the lawyer has literally saved them; they are a goddamn hero (until the bill, etc.  ;) ).

The pop culture 'everyone hates lawyers LOL' is good for a laugh. Mistaking it for reality is dumb.
Most people hate their lawyer too, but are smart enough not to tell them to their face. :P :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 16, 2019, 01:15:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72432480_10157606517380270_6789121668838064128_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQlKp28eZ-dV3XZNtbuYqxnhsPW4qdgxYnFSbGOn1KCosdRS_Ty5I0kNU_707UwIrL0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0ab72ee7265f0ba0ccf2cace83627ca4&oe=5E656F5A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 16, 2019, 01:17:02 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 15, 2019, 04:46:35 PM
Most people like me, and I'm a lawyer. :)
the ones you send behind bars don't like you so much, I guess.  :P
But I tend to like Crown Prosecutor.  I don't know, there's this aura of "truth&justice" surrounding you guys that is absent from other lawyers, since, well, their interest is to defend their client, not justice or the truth.  That's what the ethical code demands of them.  It's hard to understand, sometimes, but I am unable to think of a better system rigth now.  Not that I have spent a lot of time on it anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 16, 2019, 01:19:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 15, 2019, 05:20:49 PM
Quote from: PDH on October 15, 2019, 04:58:56 PM
I don't hate lawyers, but then again Shakespeare did have a point...

Yeah, if you want to establish a nutter's pie-in-the-sky quasi-communist utopian dictatorship, killing all lawyers is **definitely** a good thing!  :lol:

So all those who want to worship Jack Cade as their lord ...

QuoteJACK CADE. Be brave, then; for your captain is brave, and vows reformation. There shall be in England seven half-penny loaves sold for a penny: the three-hoop'd pot shall have ten hoops; and I will make it felony to drink small beer: all the realm shall be in common; and in Cheapside shall my palfrey go to grass: and when I am king,– as king I will be,–

ALL. God save your majesty!

JACK CADE. I thank you, good people:– there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.

DICK. The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Jack CADE. Nay, that I mean to do.

-- Henry VI, Part 2, Act IV, Scene 2
the no small beer thing is allright if all bars have the big ones, you know...
As for the worshipping part, well, he kinda lost me there :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 16, 2019, 01:19:36 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 16, 2019, 01:15:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72432480_10157606517380270_6789121668838064128_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQlKp28eZ-dV3XZNtbuYqxnhsPW4qdgxYnFSbGOn1KCosdRS_Ty5I0kNU_707UwIrL0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0ab72ee7265f0ba0ccf2cace83627ca4&oe=5E656F5A)
that's rich coming from Republicans...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 16, 2019, 01:59:27 AM
Esp. since this was originally a caricature aimed at Republicans during the Kavanaugh hearings IIRC.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 16, 2019, 08:23:52 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 16, 2019, 01:19:19 AM
the no small beer thing is allright if all bars have the big ones, you know...
As for the worshipping part, well, he kinda lost me there :P

Everyone menions the "no lawyers" part. They tend to forget about the "no money" part.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 17, 2019, 01:19:56 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67707305_10161987309605507_4139324733529260032_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQmnIzBpaliFWd3j0xKrkF6S8Fpn_Rz71Y9k53f4B7y_sHEkTFru1ZGwQ4aTut8IF5Y&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=59e4f2b312852c29d00f1a2dcefd57a5&oe=5E5FFF3E)

Erm, shouldn't that be 2022?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 17, 2019, 01:29:29 AM
Every two years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 17, 2019, 09:01:06 AM
Ah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on October 17, 2019, 09:05:43 AM
House is every 2 years, Senate is every 6 years (not all on the same cycle).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 18, 2019, 05:04:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 17, 2019, 01:29:29 AM
Every two years.
isn't that too short a term?  What can they trully accomplish in 2 years when they spend 8-12 months on their re-election campaign?

Ah well.  No system is perfect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 18, 2019, 05:47:52 PM
Congressmen spend all 24 months of their term running for re-election.  Senators serve 6-year terms, and therefore spend 72 months running for re-election.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 20, 2019, 03:49:10 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44322789_2067127179976528_2926614324929626112_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQlVckZxt_gH8Snp1jx2wWM6qzoMFJLM0P7dcNiLll4yysyHkuibNqLkZUAQssBziDU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=34aad58c4b50a332c2270287e34da051&oe=5E2C712D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2019, 04:35:15 PM
I feel like we've seen that one before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 20, 2019, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2019, 04:35:15 PM
I feel like we've seen that one before.

Republicans can't "meme."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 21, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 20, 2019, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2019, 04:35:15 PM
I feel like we've seen that one before.

Republicans can't "meme."
Deosn't stop them from using them as their preferred mode of communication and debate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 21, 2019, 10:55:48 AM
I still don't understand why Ice Cube is there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 10:56:38 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on October 21, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 20, 2019, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2019, 04:35:15 PM
I feel like we've seen that one before.

Republicans can't "meme."
Deosn't stop them from using them as their preferred mode of communication and debate.


You are very kind to imply they are capable of more but for strategic reasons declined that option.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 21, 2019, 10:58:43 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 20, 2019, 04:35:15 PM
I feel like we've seen that one before.

They blend into each other for me at this point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:26:45 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 16, 2019, 01:15:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72432480_10157606517380270_6789121668838064128_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQlKp28eZ-dV3XZNtbuYqxnhsPW4qdgxYnFSbGOn1KCosdRS_Ty5I0kNU_707UwIrL0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0ab72ee7265f0ba0ccf2cace83627ca4&oe=5E656F5A)

I believe this image was originally created about the Kavanaugh confirmation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

Alberta is not Western Canada.....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 11:32:46 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

All true. -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 11:32:46 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

All true. -_-

The only thing that is worse than a person who thinks Toronto is the center of the universe is an Albertan who thinks that province is synonymous with Western Canada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

Alberta is not Western Canada.....
Are you sure? After all, Alberta bankrolls the rest of the country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:39:17 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

Alberta is not Western Canada.....
Are you sure? After all, Alberta bankrolls the rest of the country.

yeah, so they like to tell themselves.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 21, 2019, 12:02:47 PM
Why is Alberta not Western Canada? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 12:12:43 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 21, 2019, 12:02:47 PM
Why is Alberta not Western Canada? :unsure:

BC is the western most province.  Under our constitution (for the purposes of Senate seats and SCC appointments) Western Canada is every province west of the Ontario border.

If I may ask, why did you think Alberta was synonymous with Western Canada?



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 12:15:14 PM
Another term often used is Prairie Provinces.  That gets more to what they might be thinking about but that usually includes Manitoba.  So really when you hear about Western separatists, that normally is something coming out of Alberta dressed up in the conceit of speaking for the "West"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 21, 2019, 12:21:03 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 12:12:43 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 21, 2019, 12:02:47 PM
Why is Alberta not Western Canada? :unsure:

BC is the western most province.  Under our constitution (for the purposes of Senate seats and SCC appointments) Western Canada is every province west of the Ontario border.

If I may ask, why did you think Alberta was synonymous with Western Canada?

Alberta, to this American, is very much part of "Western Canada". At first, you guys seemed to be saying that Alberta, for some reason, is not part of "Western Canada" which strikes me as absurd. If you're instead saying that Alberta isn't the only thing in Western Canada, that makes much more sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 21, 2019, 12:39:58 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 11:32:46 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

All true. -_-

The only thing that is worse than a person who thinks Toronto is the center of the universe is an Albertan who thinks that province is synonymous with Western Canada.
Well, when we think of the Western provinces, it's usually the AL-SA-MA provinces.  BC is Pacific, not just West. :)

But I'd like to see Alberta secede.  I just don't understand how they will export their oil as an independant country if BC and Quebec don't want a pipeline?  They will build it through the US and export from Seattle?  Manitoba will build facilities in Churchill and export Alberta's oil from there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 21, 2019, 12:42:40 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/74413094_534022357439333_6292604822147301376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQk2ySkg_xdGp4029eYcahhkoo-cTZrdQ0YhEZsttQXsnVt2d5fsZtWNfAEgm-lElMU&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=6c45ff86480343f547174571e840f02f&oe=5E24C7D9)

Hopefully, it's a troll... but with vegans, you never know...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 21, 2019, 12:43:53 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 21, 2019, 12:21:03 PM
Alberta isn't the only thing in Western Canada, that makes much more sense.
that's what he's saying.  He considers BC part of Western Canada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 21, 2019, 12:45:20 PM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

Alberta is not Western Canada.....
Are you sure? After all, Alberta bankrolls the rest of the country.

GDP by province in 2018 ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product

Alberta: 335 Billion
Ontario: 728 Billion
Quebec: 365 Billion
BC: 246 Billion

... Albertains have odd notions. Alberta is an important province but it does not bankroll the rest of the country; economically, it is less than half the size of Ontario and is smaller than Quebec as well. It is economically larger than BC though! 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 12:53:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2019, 12:45:20 PM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

Alberta is not Western Canada.....
Are you sure? After all, Alberta bankrolls the rest of the country.

GDP by province in 2018 ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product

Alberta: 335 Billion
Ontario: 728 Billion
Quebec: 365 Billion
BC: 246 Billion

... Albertains have odd notions. Alberta is an important province but it does not bankroll the rest of the country; economically, it is less than half the size of Ontario and is smaller than Quebec as well. It is economically larger than BC though!

Yeah, that is why the Council of Western Provincial Leaders was formed - ie to collectively counter the individual economic influence of Ontario and Quebec.  Put together it is roughly equivalent to the economic impact of Ontario

 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 21, 2019, 01:16:45 PM
It's probably because their Per capita GDP is so high?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:22:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2019, 12:45:20 PM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

Alberta is not Western Canada.....
Are you sure? After all, Alberta bankrolls the rest of the country.

GDP by province in 2018 ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product

Alberta: 335 Billion
Ontario: 728 Billion
Quebec: 365 Billion
BC: 246 Billion

... Albertains have odd notions. Alberta is an important province but it does not bankroll the rest of the country; economically, it is less than half the size of Ontario and is smaller than Quebec as well. It is economically larger than BC though!

Although Alberta contains only 11.6% of Canada's population, we comprise 17.3% of our GDP.  The "bankrolls Canada" notion is usually meant in terms of equalization payments.  The only provinces that don't receive equalization are BC, Alberta, Sask and Newfoundland.  But because those provinces have much smaller per-capita GDP (and other than BC, are much smaller in population) that means that Alberta is a huge massive contributor to equalization payments across Canada.

In the end I will vote Conservative today (although with the polling in Alberta my vote is meaningless - it will be a Conservative tidal wave here).  I just do not want Trudeau's ethical failings anywhere near the PMO.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:24:38 PM
And Viper tried so hard to defend you too.

When we get over 1.5 C you will continue to the do the Canadian equivalent of venting about emails.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 21, 2019, 01:25:48 PM
BC's got plenty of economic clout.  Film shoots, boltholes for erstwhile Chicomms, and wood.  What else do you need?

Oh right, oil and cows.  That's what Alberta's for! Complementarity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:24:38 PM
And Viper tried so hard to defend you too.

When we get over 1.5 C you will continue to the do the Canadian equivalent of venting about emails.

SNC Lavalin is nothing like Clinton's emails, and Scheer is nothing like Trump.

In any event the Green Party has not impressed this election - it continues to be a one-woman show.  The Green Party candidate in an Edmonton riding (not mine) pulled out and is urging people to vote NDP.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:24:38 PM
And Viper tried so hard to defend you too.

When we get over 1.5 C you will continue to the do the Canadian equivalent of venting about emails.

SNC Lavalin is nothing like Clinton's emails, and Scheer is nothing like Trump.

In any event the Green Party has not impressed this election - it continues to be a one-woman show.  The Green Party candidate in an Edmonton riding (not mine) pulled out and is urging people to vote NDP.

When your kids ask you what you did to stop climate change - explain that to them.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:32:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:24:38 PM
And Viper tried so hard to defend you too.

When we get over 1.5 C you will continue to the do the Canadian equivalent of venting about emails.

SNC Lavalin is nothing like Clinton's emails, and Scheer is nothing like Trump.

In any event the Green Party has not impressed this election - it continues to be a one-woman show.  The Green Party candidate in an Edmonton riding (not mine) pulled out and is urging people to vote NDP.

When your kids ask you what you did to stop climate change - explain that to them.

OK. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 21, 2019, 01:38:40 PM
voting for someone whose height of experience is an insurance companies go-for? how the mighty has fallen
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 21, 2019, 01:46:15 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:24:38 PM
And Viper tried so hard to defend you too.

When we get over 1.5 C you will continue to the do the Canadian equivalent of venting about emails.

SNC Lavalin is nothing like Clinton's emails, and Scheer is nothing like Trump.

In any event the Green Party has not impressed this election - it continues to be a one-woman show.  The Green Party candidate in an Edmonton riding (not mine) pulled out and is urging people to vote NDP.

When your kids ask you what you did to stop climate change - explain that to them.

Has Trudeau taken any major steps to combat climate change?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 21, 2019, 01:47:14 PM
How do you define major?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:47:42 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 21, 2019, 01:38:40 PM
voting for someone whose height of experience is an insurance companies go-for? how the mighty has fallen

His experience is in being an MP for 15 years, Deputy Speaker for 4 years and Speaker for another 4 years.  I think I've long expressed a preference for experienced politicians.

Anyways, you vote for the candidates on the ballot, not the candidates you wish were on the ballot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 21, 2019, 01:46:15 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:24:38 PM
And Viper tried so hard to defend you too.

When we get over 1.5 C you will continue to the do the Canadian equivalent of venting about emails.

SNC Lavalin is nothing like Clinton's emails, and Scheer is nothing like Trump.

In any event the Green Party has not impressed this election - it continues to be a one-woman show.  The Green Party candidate in an Edmonton riding (not mine) pulled out and is urging people to vote NDP.

When your kids ask you what you did to stop climate change - explain that to them.

Has Trudeau taken any major steps to combat climate change?

Not sure what that has to do with not voting for a party that was going to take major steps.

Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:32:14 PM
OK. :)

Just make sure you raise them to be climate deniers/delayers like the rest of your party  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 21, 2019, 01:59:24 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 21, 2019, 12:42:40 PM

Hopefully, it's a troll... but with vegans, you never know...

Isn't Adderall methamphetamine based?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 21, 2019, 02:00:25 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70927689_10221347777428906_4547494352049405952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmSNea-dKIYz-s8quNIypo6G1caY--AvI12KFiiHo8gJtRFXwPxd-xwtz0xVyDkbjo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cc43758ab68022050e6b9192de2ac7e6&oe=5E59C722)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 02:01:53 PM
You know for what it is worth CC, I haven't seen a single Green Party sign, a single Green Party flyer, or even a single Green Party Facebook ad so far.  In Edmonton they're going to come in a distant fourth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 21, 2019, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 21, 2019, 02:00:25 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70927689_10221347777428906_4547494352049405952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQmSNea-dKIYz-s8quNIypo6G1caY--AvI12KFiiHo8gJtRFXwPxd-xwtz0xVyDkbjo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cc43758ab68022050e6b9192de2ac7e6&oe=5E59C722)
What did you do when we took your bump stocks tough guy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 21, 2019, 02:05:21 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on October 21, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
Deosn't stop them from using them as their preferred mode of communication and debate.

yes, and the most pathetic thing about Republicans is that they think those pathetic "memes" and trolls are clever.  Apparently, every Republican who was smart enough to tell the rest how stupid they look has left the movement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 02:14:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 21, 2019, 02:02:46 PM
What did you do when we took your bump stocks tough guy?

While bump stocks are illegal, I don't think there's been any concerted effort to "take them away".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 02:01:53 PM
You know for what it is worth CC, I haven't seen a single Green Party sign, a single Green Party flyer, or even a single Green Party Facebook ad so far.  In Edmonton they're going to come in a distant fourth.

You are right.  Best to vote for one of the two parties that doesn't want to address the issue.

/hope your sarcasm meter is working properly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 21, 2019, 02:25:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:22:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2019, 12:45:20 PM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

Alberta is not Western Canada.....
Are you sure? After all, Alberta bankrolls the rest of the country.

GDP by province in 2018 ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product

Alberta: 335 Billion
Ontario: 728 Billion
Quebec: 365 Billion
BC: 246 Billion

... Albertains have odd notions. Alberta is an important province but it does not bankroll the rest of the country; economically, it is less than half the size of Ontario and is smaller than Quebec as well. It is economically larger than BC though!

Although Alberta contains only 11.6% of Canada's population, we comprise 17.3% of our GDP.  The "bankrolls Canada" notion is usually meant in terms of equalization payments.  The only provinces that don't receive equalization are BC, Alberta, Sask and Newfoundland.  But because those provinces have much smaller per-capita GDP (and other than BC, are much smaller in population) that means that Alberta is a huge massive contributor to equalization payments across Canada.


Uh, not so - Ontario will receive zero equalization dollars for the 2019-2020 period. 

https://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/mtp-eng.asp

Does that mean that Ontario now "bankrolls Canada"?  :lol:

Fact is Ontario underwent a recession, so it temporarily dipped into "have not" status. Before that, it was a huge net contributor (and presumably will be so now).



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 21, 2019, 02:28:46 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2019, 02:05:21 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on October 21, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
Deosn't stop them from using them as their preferred mode of communication and debate.

yes, and the most pathetic thing about Republicans is that they think those pathetic "memes" and trolls are clever.  Apparently, every Republican who was smart enough to tell the rest how stupid they look has left the movement.
They were kicked out.  No Xtreme enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 02:29:17 PM
@ Malthus, facts always get in the way of a good Albertan separatist rant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2019, 02:25:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 01:22:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2019, 12:45:20 PM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 21, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
Not Facebook, but my brother informed me today that if Trudeau wins this election Western Canada will likely secede because they can't survive another 4 years of Trudeau. Also the Green and NDP parties have vowed to utterly destroy Alberta.

Alberta is not Western Canada.....
Are you sure? After all, Alberta bankrolls the rest of the country.

GDP by province in 2018 ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product

Alberta: 335 Billion
Ontario: 728 Billion
Quebec: 365 Billion
BC: 246 Billion

... Albertains have odd notions. Alberta is an important province but it does not bankroll the rest of the country; economically, it is less than half the size of Ontario and is smaller than Quebec as well. It is economically larger than BC though!

Although Alberta contains only 11.6% of Canada's population, we comprise 17.3% of our GDP.  The "bankrolls Canada" notion is usually meant in terms of equalization payments.  The only provinces that don't receive equalization are BC, Alberta, Sask and Newfoundland.  But because those provinces have much smaller per-capita GDP (and other than BC, are much smaller in population) that means that Alberta is a huge massive contributor to equalization payments across Canada.


Uh, not so - Ontario will receive zero equalization dollars for the 2019-2020 period. 

https://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/mtp-eng.asp

Does that mean that Ontario now "bankrolls Canada"?  :lol:

Fact is Ontario underwent a recession, so it temporarily dipped into "have not" status. Before that, it was a huge net contributor (and presumably will be so now).

I don't think Ontario was in a recession for the last 9 years that is as far back as this chart goes when Ontario was receiving equalization.

We'll see what the future holds.  Certainly at one point Ontario did "bankroll Canada", but that was a long time ago.

You know, you'll never really see me bang the drum on equalization.  It doesn't actually transfer dollars from my pocket to Quebec or wherever.  There needs to be some form of financial equalization in order to have a country.  And it'll always be an easy ploy for politicians from here to gin up resentment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 21, 2019, 02:41:15 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 02:14:45 PM
While bump stocks are illegal, I don't think there's been any concerted effort to "take them away".

Making it illegal to possess one is very much the same as taking them away.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 21, 2019, 02:50:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 02:35:08 PM
I don't think Ontario was in a recession for the last 9 years that is as far back as this chart goes when Ontario was receiving equalization.

We'll see what the future holds.  Certainly at one point Ontario did "bankroll Canada", but that was a long time ago.

You know, you'll never really see me bang the drum on equalization.  It doesn't actually transfer dollars from my pocket to Quebec or wherever.  There needs to be some form of financial equalization in order to have a country.  And it'll always be an easy ploy for politicians from here to gin up resentment.

We will indeed see what the future holds - my guess is that Alberta's economy, if it continues to rely so heavily on oil extraction, is in for some future trouble. And not because of Ottawa's interference. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 21, 2019, 02:50:14 PM
We will indeed see what the future holds - my guess is that Alberta's economy, if it continues to rely so heavily on oil extraction, is in for some future trouble. And not because of Ottawa's interference.

Well the salad days when companies were announcing multi-billion dollar oil sands projects every few weeks are long gone, but the world isn't going to stop using petroleum even as we transition to more green energy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 21, 2019, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 21, 2019, 01:59:24 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 21, 2019, 12:42:40 PM

Hopefully, it's a troll... but with vegans, you never know...

Isn't Adderall methamphetamine based?
amphetamine, from what I read.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 21, 2019, 03:26:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
Just make sure you raise them to be climate deniers/delayers like the rest of your party  :)
Aren't you going a tad too far, here?  Have an argument with anyone you want, but let's leave our families out of this, right?  Or do you want people to ask if you raised your sons to be as morally and ethically corrupt as the party you voted for?  It's Languish, but still, let's keep it civil for non members.

Besides, even if Canada was to reach 0 emissions by 2050, all things being equal, it wouldn't change a thing in the State of the world.  We have to do it because we need to do our part, but without China, India and the US moving toward 0 emissions, we won't achieve anything meaningful to limit global warming.

And right now, these countries aren't pulling their weight, they're not doing enough, globally.  I know China is investing a lot in clean energies, domestically, but they're a major player in the internation coal industry.

We all know where the US stands.

India does not seem incline to move toward anything meaningful under the current government.

Brazil, did I say Brazil?  Oh, you know, that country where there used to be a lot of forests?  Yeah, used to.

Africa has the same problem as Brazil, lots of countries who prefer burning trees to raise cattle or exploit other natural resoures than planting them.

And then we have poaching of endangered species.  Everywhere in the world.  Or destruction of their habitat (see deforestation above).

Climate warming in one issue, a huge issue, but not all that matters, and it does not reste solely in the hands of Canadians.

If foreigners stop buying Canadian oil, Alberta will have to clean up its act.  Or find alternatives.  But as long as their is demand, why would somebody stop selling it?

the NDP has proposed multiple times to legalize all drugs.  Even if they're bad for your health.  What is so different with other bad things that are killing us, destroying us?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2019, 05:21:54 PM
This isn't an issue reasonable people can ignore.  Reasonable people can disagree on how best to solve the problem.  But I am developing a great dislike for those who enable the deniers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 22, 2019, 09:43:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74488821_546605202809509_1857149266154225664_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQkWdXHfRdK_rHJkBreR0CE8hiAYu4FQtn-rd5LGf90JbKuqjCYzdDLQSkqgm2rOaHM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1ae7209a758937c1f08785ba4160de7f&oe=5E2B86FB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 22, 2019, 09:51:17 AM
Never could understand the appeal of this sort of meme - unless the meme-makers believe they are immortal, the implication is that the world is basically doomed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 22, 2019, 10:27:04 AM
I can't eat really good meat without crying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 22, 2019, 10:32:41 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 22, 2019, 10:27:04 AM
I can't eat really good meat without crying.

At least the meat isn't crying. That would be disturbing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 22, 2019, 10:41:09 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 22, 2019, 10:32:41 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 22, 2019, 10:27:04 AM
I can't eat really good meat without crying.

At least the meat isn't crying. That would be disturbing.

Disturbingly arousing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 22, 2019, 12:03:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 22, 2019, 09:51:17 AM
Never could understand the appeal of this sort of meme - unless the meme-makers believe they are immortal, the implication is that the world is basically doomed.
Boomers have to feel superior about something. it started during their judgmental hippie face and continued into their smug yuppie stage and is perfected in their grouchy old tool stage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 22, 2019, 04:46:42 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on October 22, 2019, 12:03:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 22, 2019, 09:51:17 AM
Never could understand the appeal of this sort of meme - unless the meme-makers believe they are immortal, the implication is that the world is basically doomed.
Boomers have to feel superior about something. it started during their judgmental hippie face and continued into their smug yuppie stage and is perfected in their grouchy old tool stage.

Yeah, but those memes aren't comparing/contrasting millennials or Gen X or Gen Z to boomers, they're about the Greatest Generation.  And I bet almost none of them are ever posted by someone who is actually part of the Greatest Generation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 22, 2019, 05:09:02 PM
Can't really imagine Guarnere making those comments
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2019, 06:24:18 PM
Greatest Generation people are too classy for that.

Speaking of which my greatest generation Aunt just passed in her 90s. I have three 90+ relatives left. None of them ever had that kind of bombastic sneering arrogance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 22, 2019, 06:43:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 22, 2019, 09:43:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9857149266154225664_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQkWdXHfRdK_rHJkBreR0CE8hiAYu4FQtn-rd5LGf90JbKuqjCYzdDLQSkqgm2rOaHM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1ae7209a758937c1f08785ba4160de7f&oe=5E2B86FB)

Interesting that the folk who are sharing this probably see these things listed without comment as failures where in fact they're victories.

(also odd to blame the generation that can't vote yet)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 22, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
Maybe the work week thing, but there's nothing wrong with eating meat or having a firm gender identity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2019, 06:59:53 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 22, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
Maybe the work week thing, but there's nothing wrong with eating meat or having a firm gender identity.

Nor is there anything wrong with crying a little as you eat meat.

This chicken was poorly cooked :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2019, 07:10:44 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 22, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
Maybe the work week thing, but there's nothing wrong with eating meat

Arguably the carbon footprint
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 23, 2019, 12:48:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2019, 07:10:44 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 22, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
Maybe the work week thing, but there's nothing wrong with eating meat

Arguably the carbon footprint

Not if you eat it raw.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 23, 2019, 06:41:13 AM
Quote from: dps on October 22, 2019, 04:46:42 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on October 22, 2019, 12:03:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 22, 2019, 09:51:17 AM
Never could understand the appeal of this sort of meme - unless the meme-makers believe they are immortal, the implication is that the world is basically doomed.
Boomers have to feel superior about something. it started during their judgmental hippie face and continued into their smug yuppie stage and is perfected in their grouchy old tool stage.

Yeah, but those memes aren't comparing/contrasting millennials or Gen X or Gen Z to boomers, they're about the Greatest Generation.  And I bet almost none of them are ever posted by someone who is actually part of the Greatest Generation.
It has nothing to do with reality.  Memes are anti-communication and anti-fact.  They're a throw away comment by people who just hit share and get a thrill of outragegasm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 23, 2019, 06:45:09 AM
Quote from: dps on October 22, 2019, 04:46:42 PM
And I bet almost none of them are ever posted by someone who is actually part of the Greatest Generation.

The picture used is two actors in a fake story about soldiers who go AWOL to commit a theft so I doubt it.
At least Telly Savalas served; Clint was still a teenager when WW2 ended.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 23, 2019, 07:20:08 AM
Quote from: dps on October 23, 2019, 12:48:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2019, 07:10:44 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 22, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
Maybe the work week thing, but there's nothing wrong with eating meat

Arguably the carbon footprint

Not if you eat it raw.

Just a bad joke?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 23, 2019, 10:43:20 AM
Quote from: dps on October 23, 2019, 12:48:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2019, 07:10:44 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 22, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
Maybe the work week thing, but there's nothing wrong with eating meat

Arguably the carbon footprint

Not if you eat it raw.

:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 23, 2019, 11:27:27 AM
No carbonizing if it's not cooked. Duh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 23, 2019, 11:48:05 AM
If I read correctly (from an Economist article about fake meat), livestock farts account for 14% of carbon emissions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 23, 2019, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 23, 2019, 11:48:05 AM
If I read correctly (from an Economist article about fake meat), livestock farts account for 14% of carbon emissions.
Yes. Methane.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 23, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14708270_738587592961653_4449547729425913023_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQnzAskaJwNzzZqAewesKvzI6UHdRZ1v8DPJ6t6zMV6FT9QzwaXjqzu86DQkkuJKhy0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=65dbfe98103ba79a086ec96dcb11c25d&oe=5E5A056F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 23, 2019, 12:12:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 23, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14708270_738587592961653_4449547729425913023_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQnzAskaJwNzzZqAewesKvzI6UHdRZ1v8DPJ6t6zMV6FT9QzwaXjqzu86DQkkuJKhy0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=65dbfe98103ba79a086ec96dcb11c25d&oe=5E5A056F)


Happy Holidays!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 23, 2019, 12:16:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 23, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14708270_738587592961653_4449547729425913023_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQnzAskaJwNzzZqAewesKvzI6UHdRZ1v8DPJ6t6zMV6FT9QzwaXjqzu86DQkkuJKhy0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=65dbfe98103ba79a086ec96dcb11c25d&oe=5E5A056F)

I for one have some hope the Conservatives will toughen up  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 23, 2019, 12:32:06 PM
Is that a Keanu Reeves quote?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 23, 2019, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 23, 2019, 12:32:06 PM
Is that a Keanu Reeves quote?

Rhetorical?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 23, 2019, 02:10:28 PM
I still just get so puzzled with how unrelated the image is to the text.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 24, 2019, 08:30:58 AM
It's because they think Keanu actually said it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 24, 2019, 08:36:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 23, 2019, 02:10:28 PM
I still just get so puzzled with how unrelated the image is to the text.

Chop out about 80% of your brain and you will be able to understand "memes."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 24, 2019, 12:35:22 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 24, 2019, 08:36:15 AM

Chop out about 80% of your brain and you will be able to understand "memes."

More bullshit from grumbler. I tried this, and am as clueless as ever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 24, 2019, 01:55:58 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72577911_3101449606595694_9007344815477620736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQkrndBHyq9Pq8l0RpFS60SJMhKKS-SRHuD1b8ku9XBuooF6ri7v0OouFZVpt4XZxOQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d51a109dce908cecc3b29c63e8962d0b&oe=5E53F36B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 24, 2019, 02:00:05 PM
What if it is neither compassion nor theft but public policy backed up by decades of data?

Anyway who is that lady and what does she have to do with anything? Does she work or is she getting money?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 24, 2019, 02:02:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 24, 2019, 02:00:05 PM
What if it is neither compassion nor theft but public policy backed up by decades of data?

Anyway who is that lady and what does she have to do with anything? Does she work or is she getting money?

She just seems to think the text associated with her image makes no sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 24, 2019, 02:06:04 PM
At what point does it cease to be theft?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 24, 2019, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 24, 2019, 02:02:52 PM
She just seems to think the text associated with her image makes no sense.

She is probably wondering why the text writer is telling her to let her infant children starve to death.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 24, 2019, 02:08:37 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 24, 2019, 02:06:04 PM
At what point does it cease to be theft?  :hmm:

When it goes to people who deserve your money I guess. Like farmers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on October 24, 2019, 02:10:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 24, 2019, 02:08:37 PM

When it goes to people who deserve your money I guess. Like farmers.

I think it's ok to take money from people who don't work, like the dead.  Perhaps this is advocating for 100% inheritance tax.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 24, 2019, 02:14:35 PM
That's true. Maybe this is also a call for high capital gains taxes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 24, 2019, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 24, 2019, 02:08:37 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 24, 2019, 02:06:04 PM
At what point does it cease to be theft?  :hmm:

When it goes to people who deserve your money I guess. Like farmers.

Anything else is creeping socialism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 24, 2019, 03:45:26 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 24, 2019, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 24, 2019, 02:02:52 PM
She just seems to think the text associated with her image makes no sense.

She is probably wondering why the text writer is telling her to let her infant children starve to death.

if kids deserved to live god would save them. Once they're popped out they're on their own
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 25, 2019, 06:15:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74398812_2536813723203194_5629258483468599296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQkhM7a8yguWwa7YZ1Vyve3_qxEURNEiH1IkhktYyAvNqvL-479kfWz2ELjyIZlMSEE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b32aa44422655c33e631ceadaf01eab2&oe=5E5F9374)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 25, 2019, 06:17:07 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on October 24, 2019, 02:06:04 PM
At what point does it cease to be theft?  :hmm:

When it is no longer property?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 25, 2019, 06:38:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 24, 2019, 02:14:35 PM
That's true. Maybe this is also a call for high capital gains taxes.

Will nobody think of the poor rentier capitalists  :weep: ?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2019, 07:09:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 25, 2019, 06:15:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74398812_2536813723203194_5629258483468599296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQkhM7a8yguWwa7YZ1Vyve3_qxEURNEiH1IkhktYyAvNqvL-479kfWz2ELjyIZlMSEE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b32aa44422655c33e631ceadaf01eab2&oe=5E5F9374)

The slippery slope!

But seriously this is a problem I often have with this kind of propaganda: I have to have consumed the other propaganda for it to make any sense to me. It is kind of like only reading the last book of a series: half of this stuff I have no idea what specifically it refers to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 25, 2019, 07:11:37 AM
I believe the current one is referring to the custody fight in Texas?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 25, 2019, 07:12:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75224712_2786919281372195_6969454129982734336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQnFH0rbjXXy7zXvVFSDcyN78TnmVaRWYcSkG5M8zC1nzBMESSfehgWHW5UGZn-XF2g&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5e2c8592d04a42ac57807d65766088d9&oe=5E1B5128)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2019, 07:18:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 25, 2019, 07:11:37 AM
I believe the current one is referring to the custody fight in Texas?

Ah. Some sort of transgendered kid I guess? I haven't heard a thing about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 25, 2019, 07:27:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2019, 07:18:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 25, 2019, 07:11:37 AM
I believe the current one is referring to the custody fight in Texas?

Ah. Some sort of transgendered kid I guess? I haven't heard a thing about it.

This case has shown up a lot in my sister's feed over the last days.

https://thetexan.news/breaking-dallas-jury-grants-mother-sole-custody-of-purported-transgender-child/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2019, 07:33:31 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 25, 2019, 07:27:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2019, 07:18:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 25, 2019, 07:11:37 AM
I believe the current one is referring to the custody fight in Texas?

Ah. Some sort of transgendered kid I guess? I haven't heard a thing about it.

This case has shown up a lot in my sister's feed over the last days.

https://thetexan.news/breaking-dallas-jury-grants-mother-sole-custody-of-purported-transgender-child/

Of course it has. It sounds like good outrage fodder.

The only transgendered person I have known personally I met as a small child in the early 1980s and man...let me tell you...I was about as ignorant of gender and how it worked as a five year old in 1982 would reasonably be and it was pretty obvious that that kid was a boy and not a girl. I mean I had met tomboys before but nah, this was obviously a boy in a way that seemed incredibly obvious and intuitive to me at the time. So maybe it is that obvious for this kid? Maybe that is normal for young transgendered children? I have no idea, just this one anecdotal experience from somebody I know well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 25, 2019, 10:36:18 AM
Snopes had a bit on this, focused on the public identification of the involved parties.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/10/24/personal-information-child/

Quote[...]

The articles focus on a long-running, bitter divorce case in which the parent awarded custody has purportedly sought treatment, including hormone therapy, for a child questioning their gender identity. The other parent has sought to block that treatment and, while losing in court, has taken the case to the alternative media.

The parent who opposes treatment has given multiple interviews and provided details about the child's medical case. Sensational but one-sided stories based on that parent's statements have appeared on RT, the Russian state-funded media network, numerous right-leaning sites, and a website founded by a former Texas state senator.

We emailed questions to the editor of that Texas publication asking why the site felt the need to publish photographs of the child, and whether the editor had any reservations about doing so. The editor did not answer those questions but instead offered this response: "Upon viewing these, I'm not seeing any fact-checking questions or desire to confirm details surrounding the ... case. They are questions about our internal processes and decision-making when it comes to reporting on issues important to Texans."

An attorney for the child's custodial parent said in an emailed statement that the parent has been the target of threats, harassment, and vandalism to property as the result of reporting on the case by alternative media outlets.

[...]
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 25, 2019, 10:38:12 AM
"I'll take 'Stories That Didn't Happen' for 600, Alex."

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49212539_2135403786518923_4917521306611613696_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQkdAAoB3ccSfMSdB48MDAt-kLZVm5XePAsQ3SntHBWNuU_IAGCIEa8kHnQNflG4obQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=aac9f15753ebc4825765574a0cd6fd45&oe=5E1F2A62)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 25, 2019, 10:38:45 AM
And then the whole class stood up and clapped.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2019, 10:41:01 AM
Of course your relatives constantly badmouth our country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 25, 2019, 10:41:44 AM
Some people even said: « Wow ».
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 25, 2019, 10:48:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2019, 10:41:01 AM
Of course your relatives constantly badmouth our country.

No, they just question the citizenship/loyalty of people that disagree with them. Completely different!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 25, 2019, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 25, 2019, 07:12:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75224712_2786919281372195_6969454129982734336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQnFH0rbjXXy7zXvVFSDcyN78TnmVaRWYcSkG5M8zC1nzBMESSfehgWHW5UGZn-XF2g&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5e2c8592d04a42ac57807d65766088d9&oe=5E1B5128)


They might want to actually see that film before they use it as example of masculinity in the 1960's.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 25, 2019, 10:59:14 AM
Why? Hippies were real he men types. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 25, 2019, 11:39:05 AM
I don't recall anything effeminate about those characters. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 25, 2019, 11:49:16 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 25, 2019, 11:39:05 AM
I don't recall anything effeminate about those characters. :unsure:

These fine gentlemen thought otherwise.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roguejoker.com%2Fmovies%2FRednecks%2Fimages%2FRednecks%2520-%2520Easy%2520Rider.jpg&hash=e2fcf69c4a27a9716efbfc47ebf23c65c9902e83)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 25, 2019, 11:58:17 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 25, 2019, 11:39:05 AM
I don't recall anything effeminate about those characters. :unsure:
No, just thinking it funny that unemployable hippies are now considered better than hipsters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 25, 2019, 12:19:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 25, 2019, 07:12:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75224712_2786919281372195_6969454129982734336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQnFH0rbjXXy7zXvVFSDcyN78TnmVaRWYcSkG5M8zC1nzBMESSfehgWHW5UGZn-XF2g&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5e2c8592d04a42ac57807d65766088d9&oe=5E1B5128)

Real men deal cocaine and enjoy free love in communes.  :)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 25, 2019, 12:23:43 PM
Those squares look like they work middle class jobs, slaving for the man! Turn on, tune in, drop out like Syt's family wants you to do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 25, 2019, 04:46:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2019, 12:23:43 PM
Those squares look like they work middle class jobs, slaving for the man! Turn on, tune in, drop out like Syt's family wants you to do.

Yep, Real Men are liberal non conformists who do a lot of drugs.  Screw law abiding non real men.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 25, 2019, 06:04:57 PM
Real men parade without a license.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Hamilcar on October 25, 2019, 06:09:59 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 25, 2019, 06:04:57 PM
Real men parade without a license.

Like bower birds?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 26, 2019, 03:42:19 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on October 25, 2019, 06:09:59 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 25, 2019, 06:04:57 PM
Real men parade without a license.

Like bower birds?

Well... Yeah, I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on October 26, 2019, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 25, 2019, 10:36:18 AM
Snopes had a bit on this, focused on the public identification of the involved parties.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/10/24/personal-information-child/

Quote[...]

The articles focus on a long-running, bitter divorce case in which the parent awarded custody has purportedly sought treatment, including hormone therapy, for a child questioning their gender identity. The other parent has sought to block that treatment and, while losing in court, has taken the case to the alternative media.

The parent who opposes treatment has given multiple interviews and provided details about the child's medical case. Sensational but one-sided stories based on that parent's statements have appeared on RT, the Russian state-funded media network, numerous right-leaning sites, and a website founded by a former Texas state senator.

We emailed questions to the editor of that Texas publication asking why the site felt the need to publish photographs of the child, and whether the editor had any reservations about doing so. The editor did not answer those questions but instead offered this response: "Upon viewing these, I'm not seeing any fact-checking questions or desire to confirm details surrounding the ... case. They are questions about our internal processes and decision-making when it comes to reporting on issues important to Texans."

An attorney for the child's custodial parent said in an emailed statement that the parent has been the target of threats, harassment, and vandalism to property as the result of reporting on the case by alternative media outlets.

[...]
Shady, shady shit from the parent in question.  Hormone blockers delay the onset of puberty, giving more time to a transgendered or potentially transgendered youth time to sort things out without having to deal with the potentially devastating bomb that is puberty with the wrong hormones.  The father, in my opinion, proved how unfit of a parent he would be by doing what he did in terms of sensationalizing the story, selling it to right wing outlets, and generally disregarding or actively working against the wishes, safety, and well-being of his own child.  Fuck that guy.  I'm glad the mother got sole custody.  Luna is far, far better off now.  As is her twin brother Jude.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 28, 2019, 08:36:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68657003_484223645710418_4841788826886078464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQni5tvlru2CqhvqnsOyjaCuByNbvkfzfahCidnjykYkYrxIIvq_xqcSdGld8-3lp7I&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fbc5528feb05658523891b89b71550f1&oe=5E1EE367)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2019, 11:09:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12065543_10153705626167704_1015594257506686998_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQnljp04itOcUFPtDrjKiat2siIWxreK_FHV7G7B82DSxI81-TNMKRVGl3POz4e0G84&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=73d0832ac8cb25de12729faf61e3767a&oe=5E1E16D3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 29, 2019, 11:11:44 AM
What?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on October 29, 2019, 11:31:28 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 29, 2019, 11:11:44 AM
What?

Only those who have benefited from Socialism understand being poor.  I think that's what they are saying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 29, 2019, 11:34:31 AM
Only Americans know what it's like to be poor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 29, 2019, 12:09:16 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 29, 2019, 11:11:44 AM
What?
It is government produced communist food for those who can not pull their own weight and are unwilling to Work Hard. Victory Cheese. Where the victory is over capitalism, George Washington, and patriots everywhere.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 29, 2019, 12:13:05 PM
its ed's famous government cheese
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2019, 12:24:49 PM
It always reminds me of actor Craig T. Nelson's quote on entitled layabouts:

QuoteI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision. That came from my education.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 29, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 29, 2019, 12:24:49 PM
It always reminds me of actor Craig T. Nelson's quote on entitled layabouts:

QuoteI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision. That came from my education.
Everyone is big on snearing at welfare queens until they lose their jobs or lose a limb or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 29, 2019, 01:02:54 PM
What came from his education? The foodstamps?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 29, 2019, 01:22:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 29, 2019, 01:02:54 PM
What came from his education? The foodstamps?


Yeah, either that quote was mangled or Nelson was talking gibberish, or maybe there's a lot of missing content.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 29, 2019, 01:34:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 29, 2019, 01:02:54 PM
What came from his education? The foodstamps?

Getting "out" I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2019, 01:34:39 PM
Context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 29, 2019, 01:35:24 PM
it's funny, in a way.  Well, the image itself is funny.  But thinking that Hillary Clinton is so powerful that she could compell prison guards from a federal prison to assassinate Epstein, while the guy is rumored to have damaging information on the actual President, Donald Trump... that is funny in how paranoid some Republicans are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 29, 2019, 01:50:56 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 29, 2019, 01:34:39 PM
Context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U)

Well, that clarified one thing for me:  I thought Craig T. Nelson was the guy from Mystery Science Theater.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 29, 2019, 02:05:00 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 29, 2019, 01:35:24 PM
it's funny, in a way.  Well, the image itself is funny.  But thinking that Hillary Clinton is so powerful that she could compell prison guards from a federal prison to assassinate Epstein, while the guy is rumored to have damaging information on the actual President, Donald Trump... that is funny in how paranoid some Republicans are.
Not paranoid.  Reality is determined by idealogical purity and Party values. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2019, 02:07:00 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56922673_2358250177572576_3159306337242841088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQkODMeIvLkfO9QNllVimc0vDOaEpkBtvjPraasZIgxXEdyAUZ_miAgUQYcZ_0vh8Fo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ebd56d515cc57960911e450a3a3f8500&oe=5E4F32D0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 29, 2019, 02:23:42 PM
No, we don't support any of those things.

Poor Sam Elliot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 29, 2019, 02:25:46 PM
These memes who put a recognizable person behind words that person never spoke just befuddles me.

I googled Sam Elliott's politics - turns out he describes himself as a centrist, said it was "mind-boggling" that Trump was elected, and that both parties need to work together.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 29, 2019, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 29, 2019, 02:25:46 PM
These memes who put a recognizable person behind words that person never spoke just befuddles me.

I know. It makes no sense. Yet Syt's family does it all the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 29, 2019, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 29, 2019, 02:25:46 PM
These memes who put a recognizable person behind words that person never spoke just befuddles me.

I googled Sam Elliott's politics - turns out he describes himself as a centrist, said it was "mind-boggling" that Trump was elected, and that both parties need to work together.

It's about what the image conveys, not what the person thinks - right-wing memes want to convey the image of strength, toughness, virility, authority, and usually whiteness (one notable exception is the Matrix meme with Lawrence Fishburne). Actors, or the movies they play in, already have built-in meaning the way that non-descriptive Getty Images smiling executives do not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 29, 2019, 02:44:55 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 29, 2019, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 29, 2019, 02:25:46 PM
These memes who put a recognizable person behind words that person never spoke just befuddles me.

I googled Sam Elliott's politics - turns out he describes himself as a centrist, said it was "mind-boggling" that Trump was elected, and that both parties need to work together.

It's about what the image conveys, not what the person thinks - right-wing memes want to convey the image of strength, toughness, virility, authority, and usually whiteness (one notable exception is the Matrix meme with Lawrence Fishburne). Actors, or the movies they play in, already have built-in meaning the way that non-descriptive Getty Images smiling executives do not.

Oh I get that.  Sam Elliott invariably plays cowboys or other tough guys, and has that amazingly deep voice.

But come on - he's an actor living in California.  I was actually astonished to find he wasn't a vocal democrat.  There was zero chance he was a Trump supporter even before I googled his politics.

And it would be another thing if it was riffing on a movie scene or characters ala Matrix memes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 29, 2019, 02:49:34 PM
Yes. But I doubt the right-wing memes all want to use images of Kid Rock or Roseanne.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 29, 2019, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 29, 2019, 02:07:00 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56922673_2358250177572576_3159306337242841088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQkODMeIvLkfO9QNllVimc0vDOaEpkBtvjPraasZIgxXEdyAUZ_miAgUQYcZ_0vh8Fo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ebd56d515cc57960911e450a3a3f8500&oe=5E4F32D0)


So the ideal morale party is Stalin's Communist Party?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on October 29, 2019, 07:13:24 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 29, 2019, 02:49:34 PM
Yes. But I doubt the right-wing memes all want to use images of Kid Rock or Roseanne.

Ted Nugent?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2019, 07:42:34 PM
Scott Baio.  Important early mover.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 29, 2019, 07:51:23 PM
Well, there you go. I eagerly await right-wing memes that will use this picture.

(https://ztams.com/wp-content/uploads/scott35101009.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72961814_2497964977157204_6159924056784109568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlQl8WnZCWv464bUKILvr3j9Zs_ZdKeItAH6WfnhXA8RL43Gz3z06fTFAvHT6R9aE4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ff5e7dd7e6057e898ab9068a76f15c96&oe=5E19291D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 31, 2019, 04:59:10 PM
Send them a pic of the armed forces lowering the US flag at the US bases as they left the Kurdish held areas of Syria.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2019, 04:59:49 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 31, 2019, 05:41:20 PM
Could you ask your sisters what that's referring to?  Makes sense in reference to the Stars and Bars, but otherwise I don't get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 31, 2019, 06:01:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 31, 2019, 05:41:20 PM
Could you ask your sisters what that's referring to?  Makes sense in reference to the Stars and Bars, but otherwise I don't get it.


Well she is German and there is a certain flag they are not allowed to fly...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 01, 2019, 02:33:07 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 31, 2019, 05:41:20 PM
Could you ask your sisters what that's referring to?  Makes sense in reference to the Stars and Bars, but otherwise I don't get it.

I think there's the belief that liberals don't want to fly the flag because it upsets Muslims.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 01, 2019, 03:25:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 01, 2019, 02:33:07 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 31, 2019, 05:41:20 PM
Could you ask your sisters what that's referring to?  Makes sense in reference to the Stars and Bars, but otherwise I don't get it.

I think there's the belief that liberals don't want to fly the flag because it upsets Muslims.

I hadn't heard of that one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 01, 2019, 03:28:08 AM
I've seen the likes of this on their wall in the past:

(https://i.redd.it/70s1r3mjgl5z.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 01, 2019, 03:33:53 AM
So liberals are saying that all Muslims are anti-American?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 01, 2019, 03:35:36 AM
Quote from: dps on November 01, 2019, 03:33:53 AM
So liberals are saying that all Muslims are anti-American?

It makes sense if you believe that liberals, too, are vehemently anti-American.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 01, 2019, 08:14:06 AM
Well they didn't say which Liberals. Maybe they mean Trudeau thinks that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 01, 2019, 08:21:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72961814_2497964977157204_6159924056784109568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlQl8WnZCWv464bUKILvr3j9Zs_ZdKeItAH6WfnhXA8RL43Gz3z06fTFAvHT6R9aE4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ff5e7dd7e6057e898ab9068a76f15c96&oe=5E19291D)

Well fortunately that did not turn out to be true in 1861.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 03, 2019, 06:26:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73222227_2545937902290776_6371602563644522496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnco9H82GISyWB4lJCGimMeTHlcsuLotR_gkPrgtjmQLWd_dSZxEDi_HIQJ9SXM1ZU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=64022066c60c435c3abf428ab990e406&oe=5E5C9B52)

:tinfoil:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on November 03, 2019, 06:42:57 AM
That's just weird, I don't think Win95 could have handled hundreds of terabytes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 03, 2019, 09:06:38 AM
Did your family post that one, Syt? Because his house didn't burn down. That was the easiest one to debunk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 03, 2019, 11:00:47 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 03, 2019, 09:06:38 AM
Did your family post that one, Syt? Because his house didn't burn down. That was the easiest one to debunk.

I don't think the Russians are targeting people with the slightest interest in debunking their fables.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 04, 2019, 02:05:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73342833_413776692640826_7642769087755452416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQm0dMYFBpqXdvwPb7D0aWRp2qMp08cKy-TR3fBOsrerjIYhsTx9ZTn1ponB41KeVb0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cdd51ee7f1c8ed921a461021f13fc540&oe=5E4E2FAE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 04, 2019, 03:19:42 AM
Nihilistic meme writers are fucking with the Dude's legacy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 04, 2019, 04:42:20 AM
Useless buggers should have used Walter for their attempted meme  :mad:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 04, 2019, 03:31:36 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70891705_10218224871165540_3916510587651096576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQmraqAHT5ObTfO61qxlflX0JTK__AQxtR59O6uX1wofIUHNvHNcHTMJykUts8_t6IU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5fa60b2eb1192a9e2ac997100160aa34&oe=5E46BA7E)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vBc2C63C/7234572.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 04, 2019, 03:35:18 PM
Very, very, very stupid.  11.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 04, 2019, 08:07:28 PM
The pink one with the birth control pills on it is hilarious.  Trump is the least religious POTUS in memory.  And he's almost certainly the first that's never even read the Bible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2019, 03:42:25 PM
https://kfyi.iheart.com/featured/rush-limbaugh/content/2019-10-24-pn-rush-limbaugh-did-you-know-senators-cant-campaign-during-an-impeachment-trial/

QuoteDid You Know Senators Can't Campaign During an Impeachment Trial?

RUSH: I want to test your knowledge of civics and the Constitution. Let's pretend, let's imagine that there is an impeachment trial in the Senate. And no, I have not forgotten about Republicans and Democrats and panic stories, they're coming up. Do you know what happens during a Senate trial? The odds are you don't. Many of us have only ever seen one. That was the Clinton trial in the late 1990s.

There are some rules that apply for Senate behavior during an impeachment trial. Among those rules are these. If the Senate has an impeachment trial during that time -- some say it would be six on eight weeks, it depends on how many articles of impeachment that the House prepares. Each article is a case that a member of the House is assigned. He's called the House manager, and he would be the prosecutor. He would present the case to the Senate.

There were 12 such articles, I believe, presented against Clinton, if my memory serves. I don't know how many there would be here. I don't think this is ever gonna happen, by the way. They're gonna try to get rid of Trump every which way from Sunday but they can't do this. Well, I say can't. I mean, they'd have to come up with 20 Republican senators who they know would vote for impeachment. They would have to be lock solid assured of this before starting it. And, you know, Pierre Delecto is out there trying to make that happen, make no mistake about it. Mitt Romney.

So a Senate trial, let's figure four to six weeks. And when would this start, by the way? This would not start before the end of the year. They can dream about it, but Democrats aren't even gonna have a vote yet. They're not even gonna go public. Schiff is talking about maybe having some of this testimony that he's doing in public after Thanksgiving or sometime in November. The point is, that no member of the Senate can engage in campaigning during a Senate trial. Did you know that?

How many senators are running for president on the Democrat side? They would not be permitted to campaign. You can't do it. The jury can't go about their own business, jury can't do anything involving the case while they're sitting and hearing it. Same thing for the Senate. Well, let's go through the names here.

That would take Fauxcahontas off the campaign. It would take Kamala Harris off the campaign. It would take Spartacus, Cory Booker, off the campaign. It would take mean little Amy Klobuchar off the campaign, and Crazy Bernie. He would have to rely on his surrogate, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

But guess who could campaign? All the rest of them. Like Mayor Pete could campaign and take your pick, any of the rest can campaign, but none of the senators could.

Do you think they would go for this? And, by the way, the Senators have to be in session Monday through Saturday starting at about noon every day. Gives everybody time to get up. Now, they would have a lot of TV time to preen like they did the Kavanaugh debacle, but they couldn't campaign.

Now, you could look at it one of two ways. Well, that means Mayor Pete and Tulsi Gabbard and all the rest, why, they could be on TV all day. They could continue their campaign to get noticed left and right. Or, you could say they couldn't even get noticed because all the attention will be on the Senate trial.

Do Americans want to see these people wall-to-wall talking about impeachment and not jobs or health care education? Do these people want to give up their campaigns? Remember, the primaries start with the Hawkeye Cauci, then New the Hampshire primary in January.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 05, 2019, 03:54:26 PM
Wait, what?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 05, 2019, 09:20:40 PM
Rush Limbaugh, entirely unsurprisingly, doesn't know how impeachment trials work.  In the Clinton trial (which he couldn't bother to look up), there were a total of six days of testimony , plus one day of final arguments, and three days of closed-door deliberations, all between January 14 and February 12.  Plenty of time to campaign during the other 19 days the Clinton trial lasted.  Rush is lying through his teeth when he claims that Senators "would not be permitted to campaign. You can't do it."  And he knows he is lying, because he was around when the Clinton trial happened.  Senators did all the senator stuff when they were not hearing testimony or deliberating, just like when there isn't a trial.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on November 05, 2019, 11:57:45 PM
Ugh.  My mom who has progressively gotten more and more dedicated to the Right and has wholeheartedly hopped aboard the Trump Train had me look up the price of a book on Amazon for her today.  The book?  The War on History: The Conspiracy to Rewrite America's Past by Jarrett Stepman.  After reading the description below, I told her I was not thrilled by the book or its "information" and that she should reconsider purchasing it.  She got pissed and said I wasn't her gatekeeper for such things to which I replied I didn't want to be her enabler either.  Things are so magical any time politics comes up in my family these days.

"The War on Our History

Confederate memorials toppled . . . Columbus statues attacked with red paint.

They started with slave-owning Confederate generals, but they're not stopping there.

The vandals are only pretending to care about the character of particular American heroes. In reality, they hate what those heroes represent: the truths asserted in the Declaration of Independence and embodied in the Constitution. And they are bent on taking America down and replacing our free society with a socialist utopia. All that stands in their way is Americans' reverence for our history of freedom.

Which is why that history simply has to go.

Now, Jarrett Stepman, editor at The Daily Signal and host of Right Side of History, exposes the true aims of the war on our history:
The war on America: World history is full of conquests and suffering indigenous peoples. Why target Christopher Columbus? What they really want to tear down is America.
The war on Thanksgiving: World history is full of colonists. Why target the Pilgrims? What they really want to tear down is American freedom and prosperity.
The war on the Founding: World history is full of slavery. Why target Thomas Jefferson? What they really want to tear down are the rights endowed by our Creator.
The war on the common man: World history is full of victorious generals and populist politicians. Why target Andrew Jackson? What they really want to tear down is democracy.
The war on the South: World history is full of civil strife. Why target Confederate heroes like Robert E. Lee? What they really want to tear down is respect for America's past and the reconciliation that renewed our Union.
The war on patriotism: World history is full of national pride. Why target Teddy Roosevelt? What they really want to tear down is the idea of American greatness.
The war on the American century: World history is full of bloody wars. What they really want to tear down is America's defeat of totalitarianism.

If America is to survive this assault, we must rally to the defense of our illustrious history. The War on History is the battle plan."
:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on November 06, 2019, 12:36:57 AM
Oh, for fuck's sake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on November 06, 2019, 12:41:44 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on November 06, 2019, 12:36:57 AM
Oh, for fuck's sake.
Right?  I almost thought it was an Onion level parody type book.  But it isn't.  Which is terrifying in that such a book exists, people buy it, people believe it, and one of those is my own mother. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2019, 01:38:25 AM
Sheesh, BA. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 06, 2019, 01:47:05 AM
Yeah, that's pretty bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 06, 2019, 06:46:07 AM
I can sympathize.  Most of my extended family goes from being nice and helpful people to virulent fascists the moment politics comes up.  It has to be some kind of insanity unleashed on the people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2019, 07:55:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74187143_2549411435276756_7293605422164869120_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQky5zLhyEv47h1FTjN9aPR9hsXhpze75JCMrZi3OlLEew-nENh_2Gjy4XaL0gJjZ8g&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=06770f88a8709a38d15f30fa4b1c4e3f&oe=5E5BD099)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 08:11:50 AM
Oh yeah that story was completely killed three years ago and we haven't been hearing about it constantly. I mean no victims come forward or no action ever gets taken but it is a social media talking point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 06, 2019, 09:20:00 AM
Its rather amazing how an entirely constructed narrative is born, promulgated, and then pretty much accepted as fact at some point.

The entire pedohilia hysteria as a narrative was created by RT and Putin as a way of portraying the West as decadent, and then morphed into this conspiracy theory about the left enabling pedophiles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 10:14:34 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2019, 06:46:07 AM
I can sympathize.  Most of my extended family goes from being nice and helpful people to virulent fascists the moment politics comes up.  It has to be some kind of insanity unleashed on the people.

Makes me at least appreciate my family - I get annoyed because the merest mention of politics sets them all off on a lengthy rant, but at least they aren't ranting for Trump and assorted right wing nutjobs, but rather against.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on November 06, 2019, 11:37:16 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 10:14:34 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2019, 06:46:07 AM
I can sympathize.  Most of my extended family goes from being nice and helpful people to virulent fascists the moment politics comes up.  It has to be some kind of insanity unleashed on the people.

Makes me at least appreciate my family - I get annoyed because the merest mention of politics sets them all off on a lengthy rant, but at least they aren't ranting for Trump and assorted right wing nutjobs, but rather against.

who are they ranting against if everyone agrees?... :o are you a secret trumpet? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 06, 2019, 11:40:48 AM
Quote from: HVC on November 06, 2019, 11:37:16 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 10:14:34 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2019, 06:46:07 AM
I can sympathize.  Most of my extended family goes from being nice and helpful people to virulent fascists the moment politics comes up.  It has to be some kind of insanity unleashed on the people.

Makes me at least appreciate my family - I get annoyed because the merest mention of politics sets them all off on a lengthy rant, but at least they aren't ranting for Trump and assorted right wing nutjobs, but rather against.

who are they ranting against if everyone agrees?... :o are you a secret trumpet? :P

Clouds and fungi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on November 06, 2019, 11:43:02 AM
In my experience, people rarely rant against people who are present.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 11:44:09 AM
The local family who gathers together on holidays (my parents, my sister and her family, my mother's cousin and his wife, my father's sister, and my mother-in-law)  are all Democrats except my Brother-in-Law and he is...some kind of conspiracy theory type I guess. He hated Hillary but now seems interested in UBC. So maybe he would vote for Yang if he somehow won the nomination.

But because the parties are such big tents we still have plenty of things we can viciously disagree about so I try to avoid the subject.

My grandparents (both sets) had this strict ethos that you don't discuss politics so weirdly I never really knew even who they supported. That generation had a code that politics, money, and religion were taboo subjects and that has kind of carried on in my family.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 11:45:10 AM
Quote from: HVC on November 06, 2019, 11:37:16 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 10:14:34 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2019, 06:46:07 AM
I can sympathize.  Most of my extended family goes from being nice and helpful people to virulent fascists the moment politics comes up.  It has to be some kind of insanity unleashed on the people.

Makes me at least appreciate my family - I get annoyed because the merest mention of politics sets them all off on a lengthy rant, but at least they aren't ranting for Trump and assorted right wing nutjobs, but rather against.

who are they ranting against if everyone agrees?... :o are you a secret trumpet? :P

'Do you know the shame of secret Trumpism ...?'   :D

But no. They don't need to have anyone there disagreeing to go off on a rant about Trump etc.

That's part of what makes it so tiresome: everyone there agrees he's horrible, so hearing - AGAIN - about how horrible he is just induces boredom. As in, can't we just talk about something else?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 11:46:33 AM
Wait so Canadians also get together and talk about how much Trump sucks? Man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 06, 2019, 11:47:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 11:46:33 AM
Wait so Canadians also get together and talk about how much Trump sucks? Man.

To paraphrase the losing Republican candidate in Kentucky, if you have not heard of all the things Trump has done to mess up the Canadian US relationship, you have been living under a rock.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 11:52:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 11:46:33 AM
Wait so Canadians also get together and talk about how much Trump sucks? Man.

It's a popular topic up here. Not least because practically everyone agrees, so it's unlikely to be controversial.

In the US, if you rant about how much Trump sucks, there is always the possibility that someone present may be a Trump supporter. Very few of those here (at least, in Toronto). I don't think I've actually seen one in the wild in Toronto. Supporting Trump would be  seen by many here as being deliberately offensive, I think. As in, 'no-one could possibly actually mean that, so you must be saying it just to piss people off'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 11:54:46 AM
A francophone Trump supporter: Toronto's ultimate unique snowflake?

I was just surprised that he is so hated even by people who seemingly had little to fear by his antics, but as CC reminded me perhaps that is not the case  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 06, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
He has done so much damage to the US that it might be hard for an American to realize just how much damage he has done to the countries who have had close ties with the US. We have discussed before if the US will ever be able to recover the kind of trusting relationships it once had.  I think it unlikely, no one thinking about risk management in any serious way will make future plans based on something like this not happening again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 01:30:14 PM
Yeah, it's most unfortunate.

Prior to Trump, fearing and distrusting America's motives and actions was more associated with envious nationalists - an often tiresome and reactionary crew - and die-hard leftists. Most people in Canada assumed that the US was a flawed colossus - basically the good guys on the international scene, if sometimes misled (overlooking some Cold War excesses). 

Now, it just seems rational.  :( They can't be trusted. Their government is now lead by a pathological liar who has no honour, who willingly betrays his nation's allies and breaks agreements as he sees fit. He proclaims a creed of nationalist selfishness, that he's out for the good of his nation at the cost of others, but even this appears to be a lie. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 01:37:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 01:30:14 PM
Prior to Trump, fearing and distrusting America's motives and actions was more associated with envious nationalists - an often tiresome and reactionary crew - and die-hard leftists.

Did you forget the Irak fiasco? Without it Languish would not exist.

And let's not even mention Snowden.

The US government has worked hard to tarnish its image for quite a while. All that changed is that now there's a deranged narcissist at the helm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 01:37:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 01:30:14 PM
Prior to Trump, fearing and distrusting America's motives and actions was more associated with envious nationalists - an often tiresome and reactionary crew - and die-hard leftists.

Did you forget the Irak fiasco? Without it Languish would not exist.

And let's not even mention Snowden.

The US government has worked hard to tarnish its image for quite a while. All that changed is that now there's a deranged narcissist at the helm.

Iraq wasn't the US alone though - don't forget, the UK was in on that as well.

It is true that the US has in the past done many bad things - as has many nations, in the pursuit of their perceived self-interest. The US is more powerful than other nations, so the bad things it has done have been worse in impact.

What has changed, is the overall impression of the nation's leadership in popular culture.

Before, it was 'okay, basically good guys, but have done bad things from time to time (name examples)'.

Now, it is 'okay, they aren't really good guys anymore, because their leaders can't be trusted to keep agreements or not betray you, but still better than (say) Russia or China, who are outright villains''. That's a major step down in the popular narrative. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
I guess we disagree there. Personally I don't think a government that manufactures evidence to start wars or quietly collects data on a massive scale even on its own citizens can be "basically good guys".

As I said, the only thing that Trump changes for me is how clear it is that it is foolish to trust a government with these powers in the first place.



And as far as the UK involvement in Irak goes, every time Blair comes up in a discussion elsewhere on the Net I see him mentioned with contempt in connection with it. Despite all his achievements in office, the war seems to be his legacy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 03:56:11 PM
I take it Spain doesn't glory in being a former member of the "Coalition of the Willing"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 03:56:11 PM
I take it Spain doesn't glory in being a former member of the "Coalition of the Willing"?

It was deeply unpopular. It was a personal crusade by then Prez Aznar against massive popular and political opinion (in fact every single other party in Parliament).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2019, 04:01:52 PM
I remember that pic of the Spanish chick sporting a suicide bomber vest.  So edgy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 06, 2019, 04:06:19 PM
Quote from: Maximus on November 06, 2019, 11:43:02 AM
In my experience, people rarely rant against people who are present.


You should meet my brother.  On second thought, you probably shouldn't.  When ever he is under a lot of pressure he goes starts screaming and raving.  Yesterday he scream to my mother that she was a stupid bitch.

Thankfully he will be moving to Kansas shortly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 04:09:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2019, 04:01:52 PM
I remember that pic of the Spanish chick sporting a suicide bomber vest.  So edgy.

I don't, but it went well beyond the nutty left. IIRC opposition was around 85%, so even the majority of conservatives were against the war, probably many party members as well. That's why it is widely considered a personal crusade (Aznar wanted to realign our foreign policy toward the US and away from France/Germany).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2019, 04:14:42 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 04:09:13 PM
I don't, but it went well beyond the nutty left. IIRC opposition was around 85%, so even the majority of conservatives were against the war, probably many party members as well. That's why it is widely considered a personal crusade (Aznar wanted to realign our foreign policy toward the US and away from France/Germany).

I know, and I wasn't trying to refute you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2019, 04:17:53 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
Irak

Why do you translate your own country's name into English but not Iraq? Goes to Viper too.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 04:18:22 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 04:09:13 PM
(Aznar wanted to realign our foreign policy toward the US and away from France/Germany).

Pity Bush wasted that opportunity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 04:34:02 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2019, 04:17:53 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
Irak

Why do you translate your own country's name into English but not Iraq? Goes to Viper too.  :hmm:

No clue.  :lol:

Quote from: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 04:18:22 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 04:09:13 PM
(Aznar wanted to realign our foreign policy toward the US and away from France/Germany).

Pity Bush wasted that opportunity.

It never made much sense. It's the same issue the Brits are facing now. You can be a major player in a pond of little fish, or a small fish sharing a puddle with a shark.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 04:42:17 PM
Should be pointed out that Canada managed to stay out of the Iraq thing, without thereby ruining its relationship with the US - Canada was willing to go in with the Afgan thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2019, 04:53:31 PM
The US/Canada relationship has persisted through decades of awful Canadian music. Besides, we know you've got your hands full with Denmark.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 06, 2019, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2019, 04:42:17 PM
Should be pointed out that Canada managed to stay out of the Iraq thing, without thereby ruining its relationship with the US - Canada was willing to go in with the Afgan thing.

But that was 100% about optics/domestic politics.  I read some US pundit or general who commented that Canada did more to help the invasion of Iraq than many of the so-called members of the coalition of the willing, because Canadians in Afghanistan freed up US troops that were sent to Iraq.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 06, 2019, 05:10:25 PM
It would be a fair bit of hubris to argue that the invasion of Iraq was a good idea.

But I don't think one can also easily argue that sitting back and continuing to watch Saddam & Sons run a multi-million person sadistic torture chamber while simultaneously feeding regional and international terrorism was a great alternative either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2019, 05:15:16 PM
Here we go!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 06, 2019, 05:19:23 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 04:34:02 PM
It never made much sense. It's the same issue the Brits are facing now. You can be a major player in a pond of little fish, or a small fish sharing a puddle with a shark.

The US is not a shark.  :mad:

A beautiful killer whale, perhaps.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on November 06, 2019, 06:18:03 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
I guess we disagree there. Personally I don't think a government that manufactures evidence to start wars or quietly collects data on a massive scale even on its own citizens can be "basically good guys".


I ultimately think the Bush administration was genuinely surprised that WMD were not present. Prewar, the government was searching very hard for evidence of something they "knew" to be there.

To me, it is one of the great mysteries of Saddam Hussein. He stonewalled the inspectors for years, and since he previously had WMD, it seemed only logical he still did. I know there are plenty of theories as to why he didn't open up to the world* that he didn't have WMD, but i don't think any of them add up (other than he was isolated and paranoid, and ultimately not able to assess his own self interest).

*I know he did invite in inspectors post military build up, but at that point it was too late.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on November 06, 2019, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 06, 2019, 06:18:03 PM

To me, it is one of the great mysteries of Saddam Hussein. He stonewalled the inspectors for years, and since he previously had WMD, it seemed only logical he still did. I know there are plenty of theories as to why he didn't open up to the world* that he didn't have WMD, but i don't think any of them add up (other than he was isolated and paranoid, and ultimately not able to assess his own self interest).

I think he didn't really think the US would invade on such a flimsy pretext when they could have easily done it 12 years earlier, and not opening up both played well domestically and made Iraq look tougher in area relations as well.  I don't think he ever wanted to look weak with Iran next door. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2019, 10:13:20 PM
AR - the US was not the only adversary Saddam needed to worry about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 07, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2019, 04:17:53 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
Irak

Why do you translate your own country's name into English but not Iraq? Goes to Viper too.  :hmm:
Because Canada is spelled the same in English and in French, duh!
:P

I keep forgetting about Irak/Iraq.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on November 07, 2019, 05:02:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2019, 10:13:20 PM
AR - the US was not the only adversary Saddam needed to worry about.

He didn't need to worry about Iran. Post Gulf War I, Iraq was a neutralized state--the situation was not the same as during the Iran-Iraq War when two roughly equal powers faced off. The US wouldn't stand by while Iran attacked Iraq.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 07, 2019, 06:15:59 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 06, 2019, 06:18:03 PM
I ultimately think the Bush administration was genuinely surprised that WMD were not present. Prewar, the government was searching very hard for evidence of something they "knew" to be there.

I ultimately think that this untruth that "WMD were not present" will win out over the truth that, not only were they present, but US news media were full of the stories of the ill effects suffered by the troops who had to dispose of them.  I was just today showing my history class a History Channel video on Dubya, and it made the same claim that "no WMD were found."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 07, 2019, 07:21:36 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 07, 2019, 06:15:59 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 06, 2019, 06:18:03 PM
I ultimately think the Bush administration was genuinely surprised that WMD were not present. Prewar, the government was searching very hard for evidence of something they "knew" to be there.

I ultimately think that this untruth that "WMD were not present" will win out over the truth that, not only were they present, but US news media were full of the stories of the ill effects suffered by the troops who had to dispose of them.  I was just today showing my history class a History Channel video on Dubya, and it made the same claim that "no WMD were found."

That is a simplistic assessment.  Did Bush lie?  It depends on what he actually knew.  If he read the briefing reports then he knew what he was saying was cherry picking. It is misleading to suggest there were actual WMDs.  How is that exaggeration verging on lie continuing to be perpetuated?

From an in depth report in the Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/22/iraq-war-wmds-an-intelligence-failure-or-white-house-spin/

QuoteIn particular, administration officials leaked to the New York Times that Iraq had obtained large quantities of aluminum tubes for use in the uranium enrichment project — though the Energy Department experts were convinced that the tubes were poorly suited for such uses and instead were intended for artillery rockets.

Also, before the war, CIA Director George Tenet warned the White House not to use sketchy intelligence about Iraqi purchases of uranium in Africa. But the White House inserted it into a presidential speech anyway, much to its later embarrassment.

After the invasion, officials discovered Iraq had basically ended its nuclear weapon program in 1991.

QuoteThe intelligence community consistently stated between the late 1990s and 2003 that Iraq retained biological warfare agents and the capability to produce more. However, there were intelligence gaps in Iraq's biological weapons programs, made explicit in the October 2002 NIE, which policymakers did not discuss.

After the war, officials discovered that Iraq had not conducted biological weapons production research since 1996. Iraq could have reestablished an elementary program within weeks, but no indications were found that Iraq intended to do so.

QuoteThe October NIE said that Iraq retained between 100 and 500 metric tons of chemical weapons. The intelligence community assessed that Hussein wanted to have chemical weapons capability and that Iraq was seeking to hide its capability in its dual-use chemical industry. However, intelligence assessments clearly stated that analysts could not confirm that production was ongoing.

After the war, officials could find no caches of chemical weapons munitions and only a handful of pre-1991 chemical munitions. There was no credible evidence that Iraq resumed its chemical weapons program after 1991.


QuoteThe Bottom Line
The intelligence community's assessments on Iraq's WMD stockpiles and programs turned out to be woefully wrong, largely because analysts believed that Iraq had kept on a path of building its programs rather than largely abandoning them after the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Thus the stockpiles theoretically got larger as time went on.

But at the same time, the Senate report shows Bush administration officials often hyped the intelligence that supported their policy goals — while ignoring or playing down dissents or caveats from within the intelligence community. The intelligence was used for political purposes, to build public support for a war that might have been launched no matter what intelligence analysts had said about the prospect of finding WMDs in Iraq.

(We do not know whether Bush read the dissents in the NIE. His memoir just says the NIE was based on "much of the same intelligence the CIA had been showing to me for the past eighteen months." Then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice wrote in her memoir that "NSC Principals, all experienced people, read the NIE from cover to cover." The National Security Council is chaired by the president, and regular attendees include the vice president, secretary of state, defense secretary, treasury secretary and national security adviser.)

Fleischer says it is "a lie" that Bush lied. Regular readers know we generally do not use the word "lie." Fleischer is offering his opinion — one that conveniently ignores the Senate report that looked at this issue. His own deputy at the time certainly said the White House spun the intelligence for political purposes, while Fleischer still argues that White House was misled by the intelligence community.

Is there a fine line between hyping the evidence and lying about it? It's too fuzzy for the Pinocchio Test, as it also falls in the realm of opinion. But we will let our readers offer their own opinion below.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 08, 2019, 01:45:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 07, 2019, 06:15:59 PM
I ultimately think that this untruth that "WMD were not present" will win out over the truth that, not only were they present, but US news media were full of the stories of the ill effects suffered by the troops who had to dispose of them.  I was just today showing my history class a History Channel video on Dubya, and it made the same claim that "no WMD were found."
if the US government knew for real there were WMDs (that would have presumably been moved to Syria or elsewhere before the war began), really expected WMDs to be found, why were there so many soldiers suffering from ill effects from such weapons they had to dispose that US medias were full of them, why were those soldiers sent there without adequate equipment to detect and then dispose of safely of such material?  I mean, the US and other major world powers have created such weapons in the past, they would certainly know how to protect the people inspecting and dismantling the sites?

This I don't get.

But I understand your point, there were old stockpiles of weapons found in Iraq:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html

It's a nasty shortcut lots of people use, that "no new WMD weapon programs" = "no WMD weapons were found".

Both you and CC are right on this one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 07:15:05 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 08, 2019, 01:45:14 AM
if the US government knew for real there were WMDs (that would have presumably been moved to Syria or elsewhere before the war began), really expected WMDs to be found, why were there so many soldiers suffering from ill effects from such weapons they had to dispose that US medias were full of them, why were those soldiers sent there without adequate equipment to detect and then dispose of safely of such material?  I mean, the US and other major world powers have created such weapons in the past, they would certainly know how to protect the people inspecting and dismantling the sites?

This I don't get.

But I understand your point, there were old stockpiles of weapons found in Iraq:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html

It's a nasty shortcut lots of people use, that "no new WMD weapon programs" = "no WMD weapons were found".

Both you and CC are right on this one.

Exactly.  The fact that there was no ongoing program has morphed into the untruth (I'm not saying it is an outright lie, because "lie" implies that one is being deliberate about it) that "there were no WMDs."  The Bush administration was definitely lying when they implied that Iraqi WMDs were a threat to the US and that WMDs represented a causus belli.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 07:17:45 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 07, 2019, 07:21:36 PM
That is a simplistic assessment.  Did Bush lie?  It depends on what he actually knew.  If he read the briefing reports then he knew what he was saying was cherry picking. It is misleading to suggest there were actual WMDs.  How is that exaggeration verging on lie continuing to be perpetuated?

There were actual WMDs. That's my point.  The issue of whether "Bush Lied" is entirely external to the point I made.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 08:43:37 AM
What sort of WMDs? I understand there were chemical weapons but they are bulky and difficult to use and not particularly effective, especially against the United States by Iraq. Conventional explosives would be more of a threat.

Were any others?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 08:43:37 AM
What sort of WMDs? I understand there were chemical weapons but they are bulky and difficult to use and not particularly effective, especially against the United States by Iraq. Conventional explosives would be more of a threat.

Were any others?

If you go back to the Washington Post article, they examined that point.  I suspect what Grumbler is talking about, when he asserts without any qualification that WMDs existed, are weapons left over from earlier production.  Which is a complete obfuscation of the facts.   The US did no go to war because of a claim Iraq had weapons which were produced in 1991.  The threat which was claimed was that the weapons were being produced at the time and in the case of nuclear weapons, were actively being developed.  None of that was true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 08, 2019, 10:49:06 AM
Are talking about few gas shells forgotten in some bunker or warehouse?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 08, 2019, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 08:43:37 AM
What sort of WMDs? I understand there were chemical weapons but they are bulky and difficult to use and not particularly effective, especially against the United States by Iraq. Conventional explosives would be more of a threat.

Were any others?

If you go back to the Washington Post article, they examined that point.  I suspect what Grumbler is talking about, when he asserts without any qualification that WMDs existed, are weapons left over from earlier production.  Which is a complete obfuscation of the facts.   The US did no go to war because of a claim Iraq had weapons which were produced in 1991.  The threat which was claimed was that the weapons were being produced at the time and in the case of nuclear weapons, were actively being developed.  None of that was true.

ANyone who watched the actual case for the war knew exactly what was being claimed - that Saddam had NOT given up his WMD programs (which included both existing and future weapons) and more importantly, had not cooperated in the manner the previous cease fire demanded and in the manner he agreed to cooperate.

There is much to find contemptible about the case made for that war, you don't need to fabricate new outrage based on claims nobody actually made, like "nuclear weapons, were actively being developed" with what that is implying. Nobody who voted for that war or supported the war on the grounds of Saddam violating his agreements around his WMD programs did so because they were concerned that Saddam was on the verge of being a nuclear power any time soon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 08, 2019, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 08:43:37 AM
What sort of WMDs? I understand there were chemical weapons but they are bulky and difficult to use and not particularly effective, especially against the United States by Iraq. Conventional explosives would be more of a threat.

Were any others?

If you go back to the Washington Post article, they examined that point.  I suspect what Grumbler is talking about, when he asserts without any qualification that WMDs existed, are weapons left over from earlier production.  Which is a complete obfuscation of the facts.   The US did no go to war because of a claim Iraq had weapons which were produced in 1991.  The threat which was claimed was that the weapons were being produced at the time and in the case of nuclear weapons, were actively being developed.  None of that was true.

ANyone who watched the actual case for the war knew exactly what was being claimed - that Saddam had NOT given up his WMD programs (which included both existing and future weapons) and more importantly, had not cooperated in the manner the previous cease fire demanded and in the manner he agreed to cooperate.

There is much to find contemptible about the case made for that war, you don't need to fabricate new outrage based on claims nobody actually made, like "nuclear weapons, were actively being developed" with what that is implying. Nobody who voted for that war or supported the war on the grounds of Saddam violating his agreements around his WMD programs did so because they were concerned that Saddam was on the verge of being a nuclear power any time soon.

Your recollection is interesting even if a bit hazy.  I prefer the analysis done by the Washington Post based on what was actually said and claimed.  Give it a read. You will find it interesting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 11:45:28 AM
It has been awhile and I haven't thought about this in over a decade so perhaps I am mistaken but wasn't there some claim that Iraq was getting Nuclear material from Africa? The yellow-cake thing? That was what the Brits said they had discovered right? Did we already know that wasn't true by the time we invaded?

I don't remember that being part of Powell's UN presentation though.

Edit: Ok ok CC I will read that Washington Post article :P

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 08, 2019, 11:58:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 08, 2019, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 08:43:37 AM
What sort of WMDs? I understand there were chemical weapons but they are bulky and difficult to use and not particularly effective, especially against the United States by Iraq. Conventional explosives would be more of a threat.

Were any others?

If you go back to the Washington Post article, they examined that point.  I suspect what Grumbler is talking about, when he asserts without any qualification that WMDs existed, are weapons left over from earlier production.  Which is a complete obfuscation of the facts.   The US did no go to war because of a claim Iraq had weapons which were produced in 1991.  The threat which was claimed was that the weapons were being produced at the time and in the case of nuclear weapons, were actively being developed.  None of that was true.

ANyone who watched the actual case for the war knew exactly what was being claimed - that Saddam had NOT given up his WMD programs (which included both existing and future weapons) and more importantly, had not cooperated in the manner the previous cease fire demanded and in the manner he agreed to cooperate.

There is much to find contemptible about the case made for that war, you don't need to fabricate new outrage based on claims nobody actually made, like "nuclear weapons, were actively being developed" with what that is implying. Nobody who voted for that war or supported the war on the grounds of Saddam violating his agreements around his WMD programs did so because they were concerned that Saddam was on the verge of being a nuclear power any time soon.

Your recollection is interesting even if a bit hazy.  I prefer the analysis done by the Washington Post based on what was actually said and claimed.  Give it a read. You will find it interesting.

I read the article, and it doesn't say what you are claiming - that nuclear weapons were actively being developed.

You are intentionally exaggerating the claims made and the context they were made in in order to further the tired anti-American screed. Yawn.

I am pretty comfortable, as someone who actually supported the war (although not for these reasons) with my recollection of what was presented. There was never any claim that Iraq had some kind of active nuclear program, the claim was that Saddam had not given up his programs completely, and was just biding his time until everyone quit paying attention. That wasn't actually very true, or at least involved a rather impressive spinning of very thin data.

Nobody watching Powell came away thinking "OMG Saddam will have a nuke in a few years if we don't do something!" That was never the claim, and it will never become the claim, even if people like you desperately wish to ret-con history to make it so.

Like I said, there is plenty of reason to find what the Bush admin did contemptible to sell that war. You dont need to just make up new stuff, although I understand why you love to do so anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 11:59:04 AM
Ok that article makes it pretty clear that Iraq had no WMD industry since 1996. And frankly the only one that ever was any concern was the nukes and that turned out to be total BS. That doesn't mean the administration lied, they just only saw what would help their case...not an unusual failure by executive leadership. But maybe grumbler knows something the Washington Post does not.

But, as I stated at the time, the reasons to end the sanctions and Saddam's regime were not just about the WMD. I just hoped that we had some kind of plan of what to do if we were going to do that...and we didn't...at least not a good one. That is the main failure of the Bush Presidency, if you are going to topple a government you need to have a good plan ready to go. Still amazing that the guy who constantly attacked Clinton for all his nation building and aggressive foreign policy would be several times more aggressive and build multiple nations (badly...) during his tenure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 11:59:04 AM
Ok that article makes it pretty clear that Iraq had no WMD industry since 1996. And frankly the only one that ever was any concern was the nukes and that turned out to be total BS. That doesn't mean the administration lied, they just only saw what would help their case...not an unusual failure by executive leadership. But maybe grumbler knows something the Washington Post does not.

But, as I stated at the time, the reasons to end the sanctions and Saddam's regime were not just about the WMD. I just hoped that we had some kind of plan of what to do if we were going to do that...and we didn't...at least not a good one. That is the main failure of the Bush Presidency, if you are going to topple a government you need to have a good plan ready to go. Still amazing that the guy who constantly attacked Clinton for all his nation building and aggressive foreign policy would be several times more aggressive and build multiple nations (badly...) during his tenure.

If you read it a bit more carefully, the question of who was lying is dependent on who you are talking about.  If lying includes hiding the uncertainties about what you are saying and portraying what you are saying as accurate then what they did was lie.

Bush himself was probably not lying because he did not know the details.  But others, not so much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 12:11:06 PM
The problem clearly was that the WMD was not the actual reason they wanted to invade Iraq, it was just the casus belli pretext so the Vice-President and company were not too motivated to dwell on details like maybe what they were saying was not as solidly supported as they implied.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 12:25:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 12:11:06 PM
The problem clearly was that the WMD was not the actual reason they wanted to invade Iraq, it was just the casus belli pretext so the Vice-President and company were not too motivated to dwell on details like maybe what they were saying was not as solidly supported as they implied.

Yes, exactly.  Therein lies the deceit.  They wanted to invade for other reasons but they needed to get others, both domestic and international, to support their cause and so the WMD story was created.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 12:27:08 PM
Nothing I have said contradicts the Washington Post article.  There were WMD in Iraq.  That's a fact.  That the statement that "WMD were not present" is untrue is a fact.  No number of strawman arguments by CC and Valmy can hope to change those facts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 12:34:21 PM
/grumbler/ argument by assertion /grumbler/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 12:39:41 PM
crazy canuck: [weasel] grumbler blah blah [/weasel]
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 08, 2019, 12:58:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 12:25:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 12:11:06 PM
The problem clearly was that the WMD was not the actual reason they wanted to invade Iraq, it was just the casus belli pretext so the Vice-President and company were not too motivated to dwell on details like maybe what they were saying was not as solidly supported as they implied.

Yes, exactly.  Therein lies the deceit.  They wanted to invade for other reasons but they needed to get others, both domestic and international, to support their cause and so the WMD story was created.

THose "other reasons" were articulated as well. It's not like the basic idea of getting rid of a dictator and replacing them with democratic institution was some double secret plan.

And again, the WMD story was not "created". That is another lie. The irony of your repeated lies about other people lies is delicious, albeit certainly completely opaque to you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 08, 2019, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 12:39:41 PM
crazy canuck: [weasel] grumbler blah blah [/weasel]

His citing of an article that directly contradicts the narrative he is trying to create is amusing, and very similar to the WH response to a court oredering them to pay $2 million in damages as a result of a lawsuit. "Well, we are please that the court found in our favor by not making us pay $4 million in damages!"

It does go to show that the use of myth and propaganda to push a political narrative is hardly the unique provenance of the Trumps of the world. The CCs play that game as enthusiastically as anyone else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 08, 2019, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 07, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2019, 04:17:53 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
Irak

Why do you translate your own country's name into English but not Iraq? Goes to Viper too.  :hmm:
Because Canada is spelled the same in English and in French, duh!
:P

I keep forgetting about Irak/Iraq.

It's not a translation technically, but a different transcription, since different languages have different rules for transliterating Arabic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 08, 2019, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 08, 2019, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 07, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2019, 04:17:53 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
Irak

Why do you translate your own country's name into English but not Iraq? Goes to Viper too.  :hmm:
Because Canada is spelled the same in English and in French, duh!
:P

I keep forgetting about Irak/Iraq.

It's not a translation technically, but a different transcription, since different languages have different rules for transliterating Arabic.

No, I think Iraq is the English name for that country, not just a transliteration of Arabic.  It's like we call Germany Germany, not Deutschland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 08, 2019, 01:38:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2019, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 08, 2019, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 07, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2019, 04:17:53 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
Irak

Why do you translate your own country's name into English but not Iraq? Goes to Viper too.  :hmm:
Because Canada is spelled the same in English and in French, duh!
:P

I keep forgetting about Irak/Iraq.

It's not a translation technically, but a different transcription, since different languages have different rules for transliterating Arabic.

No, I think Iraq is the English name for that country, not just a transliteration of Arabic.  It's like we call Germany Germany, not Deutschland.

Iraq is the English transliteration or English spelling if you will of (al-)Irāq in latinised Arabic.
Germany is not a transliteration of Deutschland, it is the English exonym of Roman origin.
Not the same.  :nerd:

PS: the (disused) English exonym for Iraq would be Mesopotamia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 08, 2019, 01:41:21 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75603977_2547311581972544_8488596097076297728_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlShVnpJt9Fku4JzT0VVz7bUhqdKtl8XlcSvQl1v3SChcAvpRTcSway0vEJbU-SYeE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f58075db44bfe0273854ac938c9d0d59&oe=5E491AB0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 01:43:31 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 08, 2019, 12:58:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 12:25:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 12:11:06 PM
The problem clearly was that the WMD was not the actual reason they wanted to invade Iraq, it was just the casus belli pretext so the Vice-President and company were not too motivated to dwell on details like maybe what they were saying was not as solidly supported as they implied.

Yes, exactly.  Therein lies the deceit.  They wanted to invade for other reasons but they needed to get others, both domestic and international, to support their cause and so the WMD story was created.

THose "other reasons" were articulated as well. It's not like the basic idea of getting rid of a dictator and replacing them with democratic institution was some double secret plan.

And again, the WMD story was not "created". That is another lie. The irony of your repeated lies about other people lies is delicious, albeit certainly completely opaque to you.

Your first sentence is not responsive to mine. 

Your second sentence is beyond the pale offensive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 12:27:08 PM
Nothing I have said contradicts the Washington Post article.  There were WMD in Iraq.  That's a fact.  That the statement that "WMD were not present" is untrue is a fact.  No number of strawman arguments by CC and Valmy can hope to change those facts.

The facts are misleading though. I don't think the "WMD" that were in Iraq are actually weapons that could cause much destruction, except maybe against Iraqi civilians, and certainly considerably less destruction than conventional weaponry. Weapons that are no threat at all to the United States because they have proven to be ineffective for the past hundred years is more like it.

Does that matter at all or is the technicality the important thing?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 08, 2019, 01:51:59 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 06, 2019, 05:10:25 PM
It would be a fair bit of hubris to argue that the invasion of Iraq was a good idea.

But I don't think one can also easily argue that sitting back and continuing to watch Saddam & Sons run a multi-million person sadistic torture chamber while simultaneously feeding regional and international terrorism was a great alternative either.

Saddam got rid of Abu Nidal, one of the worst terrorist pre 2001, by "suicide" and you call that feeding international terrorism?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 08, 2019, 01:53:53 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 01:43:31 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 08, 2019, 12:58:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 12:25:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 12:11:06 PM
The problem clearly was that the WMD was not the actual reason they wanted to invade Iraq, it was just the casus belli pretext so the Vice-President and company were not too motivated to dwell on details like maybe what they were saying was not as solidly supported as they implied.

Yes, exactly.  Therein lies the deceit.  They wanted to invade for other reasons but they needed to get others, both domestic and international, to support their cause and so the WMD story was created.

THose "other reasons" were articulated as well. It's not like the basic idea of getting rid of a dictator and replacing them with democratic institution was some double secret plan.

And again, the WMD story was not "created". That is another lie. The irony of your repeated lies about other people lies is delicious, albeit certainly completely opaque to you.

Your first sentence is not responsive to mine. 

Your second sentence is beyond the pale offensive.

You do know the difference between a sentence and a paragraph, don't you? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 01:58:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 12:27:08 PM
Nothing I have said contradicts the Washington Post article.  There were WMD in Iraq.  That's a fact.  That the statement that "WMD were not present" is untrue is a fact.  No number of strawman arguments by CC and Valmy can hope to change those facts.

The facts are misleading though. I don't think the "WMD" that were in Iraq are actually weapons that could cause much destruction, except maybe against Iraqi civilians, and certainly considerably less destruction than conventional weaponry. Weapons that are no threat at all to the United States because they have proven to be ineffective for the past hundred years is more like it.

Does that matter at all or is the technicality the important thing?

I am not sure exactly why you insist that the facts are not important when I point out a factual untruth, and insist that the truth is a mere "technicality."  Don't we frown on the position that "the truth is a technicality" any more?  Are you really going to take the position opposed to mine, that the truth is "misleading" and so an untruth is preferable?

It seems to me that all of your technicalities glossing over the fact that WMDs were, in fact, found in Iraq are far more technicalities than my simple observation that they were.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 08, 2019, 02:09:10 PM
Don't feed the grumbler.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/111/933/7af.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 08, 2019, 02:16:57 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 08, 2019, 01:38:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2019, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 08, 2019, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 07, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2019, 04:17:53 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on November 06, 2019, 02:40:45 PM
Irak

Why do you translate your own country's name into English but not Iraq? Goes to Viper too.  :hmm:
Because Canada is spelled the same in English and in French, duh!
:P

I keep forgetting about Irak/Iraq.

It's not a translation technically, but a different transcription, since different languages have different rules for transliterating Arabic.

No, I think Iraq is the English name for that country, not just a transliteration of Arabic.  It's like we call Germany Germany, not Deutschland.

Iraq is the English transliteration or English spelling if you will of (al-)Irāq in latinised Arabic.
Germany is not a transliteration of Deutschland, it is the English exonym of Roman origin.
Not the same.  :nerd:

PS: the (disused) English exonym for Iraq would be Mesopotamia.

Where is the K from?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 02:17:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 01:58:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 12:27:08 PM
Nothing I have said contradicts the Washington Post article.  There were WMD in Iraq.  That's a fact.  That the statement that "WMD were not present" is untrue is a fact.  No number of strawman arguments by CC and Valmy can hope to change those facts.

The facts are misleading though. I don't think the "WMD" that were in Iraq are actually weapons that could cause much destruction, except maybe against Iraqi civilians, and certainly considerably less destruction than conventional weaponry. Weapons that are no threat at all to the United States because they have proven to be ineffective for the past hundred years is more like it.

Does that matter at all or is the technicality the important thing?

I am not sure exactly why you insist that the facts are not important when I point out a factual untruth, and insist that the truth is a mere "technicality."  Don't we frown on the position that "the truth is a technicality" any more?  Are you really going to take the position opposed to mine, that the truth is "misleading" and so an untruth is preferable?

It seems to me that all of your technicalities glossing over the fact that WMDs were, in fact, found in Iraq are far more technicalities than my simple observation that they were.

I never disputed that chemical weapons were found in Iraq. I just think calling them a "Weapon of Mass Destruction" is a stretching the truth to the point that the term is meaningless. The assertion was that this was a preemptive attack because Saddam Hussein was a threat to the peace of the world. He had nothing in his possession that could conceivably have been a threat.

But, as I said, I don't think that was the real reason the US and UK thought Saddam needed to be overthrown and to the extent I supported the war it was for reasons other than that anyway. But still I think it is a bad look that the evidence that the primary public reason given for the war was so flimsy.

So yeah technically there were some "WMDs" there but not in the sense that it made any sense to overthrow Saddam Hussein for that reason.

That is just my take on the situation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 08, 2019, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 08, 2019, 02:16:57 PM
Where is the K from?

Romance languages like their Q to be followed by U, as in Latin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 08, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 08, 2019, 01:51:59 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 06, 2019, 05:10:25 PM
It would be a fair bit of hubris to argue that the invasion of Iraq was a good idea.

But I don't think one can also easily argue that sitting back and continuing to watch Saddam & Sons run a multi-million person sadistic torture chamber while simultaneously feeding regional and international terrorism was a great alternative either.

Saddam got rid of Abu Nidal, one of the worst terrorist pre 2001, by "suicide" and you call that feeding international terrorism?

Seriously?  That was basically a mob boss doing away with one of his own hit men after he is no longer useful.  And then there was also the  Palestinian suicide bombers or sheltering al-Zarqawi, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 03:54:30 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 08, 2019, 02:09:10 PM
Don't feed the grumbler.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/111/933/7af.png)

Yep.  I'm the asshole that pointed out that CC's strawman arguments (where he attributed to me positions I do not hold) were just that. 

If I am an asshole for pointing out intellectually dishonest takes, I'll wear that title proudly.

If I'm an asshole for mocking an emo poster who tries to nail himself to a cross, I'll wear that title proudly, too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 02:17:58 PM
I never disputed that chemical weapons were found in Iraq. I just think calling them a "Weapon of Mass Destruction" is a stretching the truth to the point that the term is meaningless. The assertion was that this was a preemptive attack because Saddam Hussein was a threat to the peace of the world. He had nothing in his possession that could conceivably have been a threat.

Isn't this precisely what we would call "a technicality?"  That there were large chemical weapons (which are WMDs by definition) that you think were not really WMDs because... well, reasons?

QuoteBut, as I said, I don't think that was the real reason the US and UK thought Saddam needed to be overthrown and to the extent I supported the war it was for reasons other than that anyway. But still I think it is a bad look that the evidence that the primary public reason given for the war was so flimsy.

So yeah technically there were some "WMDs" there but not in the sense that it made any sense to overthrow Saddam Hussein for that reason.

That is just my take on the situation.

I am not sure why you are including this digression in our discussion.  I have already stated that I don't agree with the Bush Administration's position that the remaining WMDs were a threat to anyone, and that they didn't comprise a causus belli.  I have clearly stated and repeated that my only objection to the claim that "WMD were not present" is that it is untrue (except in your argument that WMD were not WMD because reasons).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 08, 2019, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 06, 2019, 11:44:09 AM
The local family who gathers together on holidays (my parents, my sister and her family, my mother's cousin and his wife, my father's sister, and my mother-in-law)  are all Democrats except my Brother-in-Law and he is...some kind of conspiracy theory type I guess. He hated Hillary but now seems interested in UBC. So maybe he would vote for Yang if he somehow won the nomination.

But because the parties are such big tents we still have plenty of things we can viciously disagree about so I try to avoid the subject.

My grandparents (both sets) had this strict ethos that you don't discuss politics so weirdly I never really knew even who they supported. That generation had a code that politics, money, and religion were taboo subjects and that has kind of carried on in my family.

On my mother's side, her parents were pro Parti Québécois and Bloc Québécois, but my aunt and her husband, both teachers, hated the PQ with a passion (20% cut on their wages to control expenses, but reversed a few months later - not their finest moment).  They and their children both carry this hatred today.  My mother has always been a PQ supporter.

On my dad's side, my grandfather and him have always been Liberal, federal&provincial, no question asked.  My very reigious grandpa hesitated a little when a women represented the Liberal Party of Quebec between 1985 and 1994.  What was not made public at the time, is that she had a lesbian affair with someone from her staff...  I think poor grandpa would have had an heart attack, had he known that :(

Most of my uncles and aunt were PQ supporters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 08, 2019, 06:53:16 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 02:17:58 PM
I never disputed that chemical weapons were found in Iraq. I just think calling them a "Weapon of Mass Destruction" is a stretching the truth to the point that the term is meaningless. The assertion was that this was a preemptive attack because Saddam Hussein was a threat to the peace of the world. He had nothing in his possession that could conceivably have been a threat.

Isn't this precisely what we would call "a technicality?"  That there were large chemical weapons (which are WMDs by definition) that you think were not really WMDs because... well, reasons?

QuoteBut, as I said, I don't think that was the real reason the US and UK thought Saddam needed to be overthrown and to the extent I supported the war it was for reasons other than that anyway. But still I think it is a bad look that the evidence that the primary public reason given for the war was so flimsy.

So yeah technically there were some "WMDs" there but not in the sense that it made any sense to overthrow Saddam Hussein for that reason.

That is just my take on the situation.

I am not sure why you are including this digression in our discussion.  I have already stated that I don't agree with the Bush Administration's position that the remaining WMDs were a threat to anyone, and that they didn't comprise a causus belli.  I have clearly stated and repeated that my only objection to the claim that "WMD were not present" is that it is untrue (except in your argument that WMD were not WMD because reasons).

Causus belli? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 08, 2019, 07:18:50 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 08, 2019, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 08, 2019, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 08, 2019, 08:43:37 AM
What sort of WMDs? I understand there were chemical weapons but they are bulky and difficult to use and not particularly effective, especially against the United States by Iraq. Conventional explosives would be more of a threat.

Were any others?

If you go back to the Washington Post article, they examined that point.  I suspect what Grumbler is talking about, when he asserts without any qualification that WMDs existed, are weapons left over from earlier production.  Which is a complete obfuscation of the facts.   The US did no go to war because of a claim Iraq had weapons which were produced in 1991.  The threat which was claimed was that the weapons were being produced at the time and in the case of nuclear weapons, were actively being developed.  None of that was true.

ANyone who watched the actual case for the war knew exactly what was being claimed - that Saddam had NOT given up his WMD programs (which included both existing and future weapons) and more importantly, had not cooperated in the manner the previous cease fire demanded and in the manner he agreed to cooperate.

There is much to find contemptible about the case made for that war, you don't need to fabricate new outrage based on claims nobody actually made, like "nuclear weapons, were actively being developed" with what that is implying. Nobody who voted for that war or supported the war on the grounds of Saddam violating his agreements around his WMD programs did so because they were concerned that Saddam was on the verge of being a nuclear power any time soon.

What? Do you not remember the smoking gun/ mushroom cloud bullshit? It was repeated by Bush, Cheney and al. in every fucking speech.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 08, 2019, 07:20:36 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 03:54:30 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 08, 2019, 02:09:10 PM
Don't feed the grumbler.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/111/933/7af.png)

Yep.  I'm the asshole that pointed out that CC's strawman arguments (where he attributed to me positions I do not hold) were just that. 

If I am an asshole for pointing out intellectually dishonest takes, I'll wear that title proudly.

If I'm an asshole for mocking an emo poster who tries to nail himself to a cross, I'll wear that title proudly, too.

But you're an asshole to begin with. You're just adding layers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 08, 2019, 09:57:32 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 08, 2019, 07:20:36 PM
But you're an asshole to begin with. You're just adding layers.

I'm posting on Languish.  It's all assholes here. Don't feel left out - you are a multilayered asshole yourself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 08, 2019, 10:39:31 PM
I believe we had a vote and declared Katmai the Asshole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 11, 2019, 05:26:49 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 08, 2019, 10:39:31 PM
I believe we had a vote and declared Katmai the Asshole.
I still think EmmaUK had it down though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 11, 2019, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 08, 2019, 07:18:50 PM

What? Do you not remember the smoking gun/ mushroom cloud bullshit? It was repeated by Bush, Cheney and al. in every fucking speech.


Berkut and Grumbler never could admit they were wrong on this bullshit.  They've been trying to claim they were justified for a decade and a half.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 11, 2019, 11:11:44 PM
It's amusing to see supposedly principled members of the "Left" copy the worst of the Fox News propaganda tactics.

If you repeat a lie long enough, at least YOU will start to believe it!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 11, 2019, 11:33:21 PM
Dude, you literally wrote this:

QuoteThere is much to find contemptible about the case made for that war, you don't need to fabricate new outrage based on claims nobody actually made, like "nuclear weapons, were actively being developed" with what that is implying. Nobody who voted for that war or supported the war on the grounds of Saddam violating his agreements around his WMD programs did so because they were concerned that Saddam was on the verge of being a nuclear power any time soon.

How can you possibly compute claims nobody actually made, like "nuclear weapons, were actively being developed" with the smoking gun - mushroom cloud quotes? It literally means they wanted you to believe Hussein was developing nuclear weapons. There is no other way to interpret that phrase.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on November 11, 2019, 11:33:30 PM
So sad....

What was once a mostly a decent thread about a couple of German-American families has dissolved into name calling, false statments, and vitriol.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 11, 2019, 11:34:51 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 11, 2019, 11:11:44 PM
It's amusing to see supposedly principled members of the "Left" copy the worst of the Fox News propaganda tactics.

If you repeat a lie long enough, at least YOU will start to believe it!

I'm quoting what you wrote and I'm quoting the Bush administration. How is that possibly propaganda?  :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 12, 2019, 08:37:47 AM
Quote from: PDH on November 11, 2019, 11:33:30 PM
So sad....

What was once a mostly a decent thread about a couple of German-American families has dissolved into name calling, false statments, and vitriol.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 12, 2019, 08:51:12 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 11, 2019, 11:34:51 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 11, 2019, 11:11:44 PM
It's amusing to see supposedly principled members of the "Left" copy the worst of the Fox News propaganda tactics.

If you repeat a lie long enough, at least YOU will start to believe it!

I'm quoting what you wrote and I'm quoting the Bush administration. How is that possibly propaganda?  :mellow:


Man, you won.  When Berkut or Grumbler start to accuse someone of partisanship, tribalism, etc it means they are on the ropes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 12, 2019, 01:47:00 PM
The next step is usually semantics. Never admit you're wrong!

I'm sure that's healthy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 12, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
What if you are, in fact, never wrong? I'm asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 12, 2019, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
I'm asking for a friend.

Bah
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 12, 2019, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 12, 2019, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
I'm asking for a friend.

Bah

His friend is a sheep?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 12, 2019, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 12, 2019, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 12, 2019, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
I'm asking for a friend.

Bah

His friend is a sheep?  :hmm:

A man can't be friends with a sheep. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 12, 2019, 06:06:10 PM
Russia has truly worked absolite miracles on boomers minds.
It will be an utterly fascinating book to read in a few decades. Just how they did it. It's not so simple as just churning out "leftists eat babies" junk. There's a whole lot of priming and taken alone completely innocent stories pumpe dinto people to get them ready for the bollocks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on November 12, 2019, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2019, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 12, 2019, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 12, 2019, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 12, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
I'm asking for a friend.

Bah

His friend is a sheep?  :hmm:

A man can't be friends with a sheep. :lol:

Never mix sex and friendship? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 12, 2019, 06:18:04 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 12, 2019, 06:06:10 PM
Russia has truly worked absolite miracles on boomers minds.
It will be an utterly fascinating book to read in a few decades. Just how they did it. It's not so simple as just churning out "leftists eat babies" junk. There's a whole lot of priming and taken alone completely innocent stories pumpe dinto people to get them ready for the bollocks.
It's probably not some zero-day attack on people's rationality, but just the old truth that preying on people's fears makes them stop being rational, coupled with the massive force multiplier that algorithmic social media became.  I wouldn't be surprised if Russians themselves were taken aback by how effective it turned out to be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 12, 2019, 06:38:44 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 12, 2019, 06:06:10 PM
Russia has truly worked absolite miracles on boomers minds.

Still sticking with your "90% joke" line Shelf?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 13, 2019, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 11, 2019, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 08, 2019, 07:18:50 PM

What? Do you not remember the smoking gun/ mushroom cloud bullshit? It was repeated by Bush, Cheney and al. in every fucking speech.


Berkut and Grumbler never could admit they were wrong on this bullshit.  They've been trying to claim they were justified for a decade and a half.

We were absolutely justified in invading Iraq.  The problem was that we had no real plan on what to do there after winning the war.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 14, 2019, 08:50:54 AM
Quote from: dps on November 13, 2019, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 11, 2019, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 08, 2019, 07:18:50 PM

What? Do you not remember the smoking gun/ mushroom cloud bullshit? It was repeated by Bush, Cheney and al. in every fucking speech.


Berkut and Grumbler never could admit they were wrong on this bullshit.  They've been trying to claim they were justified for a decade and a half.

We were absolutely justified in invading Iraq.  The problem was that we had no real plan on what to do there after winning the war.
There'd be a parade.  That was as far as the thinking went. Democracy would break out, and people friendly to the West would be elected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on November 14, 2019, 09:20:50 AM
Quote from: dps on November 13, 2019, 11:24:55 PM

We were absolutely justified in invading Iraq.  The problem was that we had no real plan on what to do there after winning the war.

Being justified isn't the same as it being a good idea.  We also have justifications for invading NK, Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and many other countries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 14, 2019, 03:06:43 PM
Are you ancient?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 14, 2019, 04:18:24 PM
Quote from: frunk on November 14, 2019, 09:20:50 AM
Quote from: dps on November 13, 2019, 11:24:55 PM

We were absolutely justified in invading Iraq.  The problem was that we had no real plan on what to do there after winning the war.

Being justified isn't the same as it being a good idea.  We also have justifications for invading NK, Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and many other countries.

And that of course, is a fair point.  Plenty of justification for invading NK, but we cannot because the potential damage to Seoul is unthinkable.  Russia, China, Pakistan?  Nukes.  SA?  Hmm...maybe should have done that already.

We may have been better off taking out Saddam after Gulf War I...but there were a few reasons not to do so then, and the after-affects/occupation at that time could have been easily just as bad.  At least, the same major negative factors would still be in place...that being surrounded by a bunch of hostile states working to undermine everything you do and willing to flood supplies/weapons to local insurgents.  An effective aftermath for Iraq probably could not really have been realized without doing the same to Iran and Syria at the same time.

Leaving Saddam in place wouldn't have been glamorous either...as the Iraqi's would have to suffer under that (if not worse than how they suffered after what we did, probably in many different ways).  If Saddam's regime were to have collapsed or weakened severely without us there...there very well could be a much wider window for Iran to meddle in there.  Probably a lot like what is going on in Yemen...a proxy war against SA, and far, far more bloody.

Would the Arab Spring have still happened?  Hard to say, but there is no reason why it could not have without GW2, and many of the Mid East's problems would still exist.  We'd have just saved a couple trillion bucks...or had to blow it helping out in the region under some other kind of scenario.

But then, that is all just mental, alt-history masturbation.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 14, 2019, 08:46:33 PM
The Arab Spring started in Tunisia and had zero to do with Saddam Hussein being out of power. :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 15, 2019, 01:15:59 AM
(https://i.redd.it/xebz3z88cwp31.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on November 15, 2019, 04:04:43 AM
Seems fair, commies on the left and Somalia to the right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 15, 2019, 08:09:04 AM
Just how free is libertarian?  Unless you start out rich and powerful you'll be at the complete mercy of those who did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 15, 2019, 08:37:26 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 15, 2019, 08:09:04 AM
Just how free is libertarian?  Unless you start out rich and powerful you'll be at the complete mercy of those who did.

You will be free from all government compulsion. No guarantees about other sorts of compulsion :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 15, 2019, 08:57:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70778656_1220614701460294_281511410918227968_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQlvbxOdfdxlff1gBmWB3fTUGdA8BJPNjBN7qJ417vXiWa-ay3oztJqY3nFWpEPWwqA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=46119612e4b4553d089f81642fe2f404&oe=5E562904)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 15, 2019, 09:05:04 AM
Quote from: Threviel on November 15, 2019, 04:04:43 AM
Seems fair, commies on the left and Somalia to the right.


People still pushing the "Nazis were part of the left!" Bullshit"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 15, 2019, 09:09:25 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 15, 2019, 09:05:04 AM
Quote from: Threviel on November 15, 2019, 04:04:43 AM
Seems fair, commies on the left and Somalia to the right.


People still pushing the "Nazis were part of the left!" Bullshit"?
Why wouldn't they, what would make them stop?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 15, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
Does it matter whether the Nazis were left or right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2019, 10:06:33 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 15, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
Does it matter whether the Nazis were left or right?

If the goal is to understand the historical reality of the Nazi movement, yes it matters.  If you think Nazis were a far left-wing party you are going to have a very confused and wrong-headed understanding of Weimar politics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2019, 10:09:31 AM
BYW that entire spectrum is nonsensical.  "Conservatives" are not more liberty-loving then liberals and anarchy and "mob rule" are not extreme manifestations of conservative politics.  The whole thing is absurd.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 15, 2019, 10:12:15 AM
There both right wing and left wing anarchists, but generally most historical anarchists have been associated with the extreme left. People like Bakunin and Emma Goldman. So the claim that anarchism is an extreme form of right wing politics is weird.

Granted both right wing and left wing anarchism are terrible ideas so I guess there is that.

But the weird thing is is I think that chart is trying to show that somehow the US is in some kind of happy medium balancing the extremes on both sides, and should try to remain there. That is a take I rarely see from those kinds of leftwing = statist tyranny type deals. But maybe I don't get it fully.

Leftism may be tyranny but we all need a little tyranny in our lives to protect us from anarchy and mob rule  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 15, 2019, 10:16:54 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2019, 10:06:33 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 15, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
Does it matter whether the Nazis were left or right?

If the goal is to understand the historical reality of the Nazi movement, yes it matters.  If you think Nazis were a far left-wing party you are going to have a very confused and wrong-headed understanding of Weimar politics.

My point isn't about understanding Weimar politics, but rather that it's not really interesting to classify the Nazis as left or right when the point is obviously to tie them to modern-day parties.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2019, 10:20:25 AM
Conservatism is not an intermediary step from "moderate" to Rothbardian "anarcho-capitalism"*. It is an entirely separate ideological package that privileges order, hierarchy and stability over maximizing individual liberty and claims for individual justice.  Liberals and socialists are not pro-"tyranny" because they e.g. support graduated income taxation.  Communism and Nazism are not identical. 


*A misnomer and contradiction in terms.  Any political system which recognizes and enforces property rights is not anarchic.  Just because you allow capitalists to shit in the water at will doesn't make your proposed political system an anarchy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2019, 10:22:08 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 15, 2019, 10:16:54 AM
My point isn't about understanding Weimar politics, but rather that it's not really interesting to classify the Nazis as left or right when the point is obviously to tie them to modern-day parties.

If the focus is on contemporary politics, then there are in fact fascist political movements alive today, a subset of which are openly or covertly neo-Nazi.  They are all on the right of the political spectrum and it confuses matters to claim otherwise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 15, 2019, 10:29:11 AM
Sorry, I should note "mainstream" modern-day parties. Though I suppose AfD and FN are getting there.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2019, 10:35:10 AM
The FPO in Austria qualifies.  They have controlled regions and got a Vice-Chancellor position in the national government.  AfD is a mixed bag but the Hoecke wing looks to me to have crossed that line.

Fascists of any kind are not a good thing but it adds a little degree of nervousness when they crop up in Germany and Austria. Bad track record there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 15, 2019, 10:36:08 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 15, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
Does it matter whether the Nazis were left or right?


Yes.  The necessity of knowing who the Nazis are was demonstrated at Charlottesville.  For several years American conservatives have been trying to push the "Nazis are really leftist!" narrative.  When actual Nazis starting marching for Trump and murdering people American conservatives did not and still don't know how to respond.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 15, 2019, 10:40:14 AM
Regardless of how one might try to classify Ernst Rohm and his thugs over there in 1920s and 1930s Germany, there is no doubt that Nazism has been a right-wing ideology when it has existed in the United States.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on November 15, 2019, 11:46:46 AM
I think 80 percent of the problem with political classifications comes from trying to cram them into one dimension.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on November 15, 2019, 12:28:13 PM
All I know is that there are good people on both sides.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 15, 2019, 01:31:39 PM
Very fine people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 15, 2019, 03:08:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 15, 2019, 10:40:14 AM
Regardless of how one might try to classify Ernst Rohm and his thugs over there in 1920s and 1930s Germany, there is no doubt that Nazism has been a right-wing ideology when it has existed in the United States.

Yeah, the historical origins of the Nazis were on the left, but Hitler himself was mostly concerned with taking and holding power, rather than ideology itself (other than persecuting Jews, which was and is a goal not limited to the right), and modern neo-Nazi movements are a far-right thing
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 15, 2019, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: dps on November 15, 2019, 03:08:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 15, 2019, 10:40:14 AM
Regardless of how one might try to classify Ernst Rohm and his thugs over there in 1920s and 1930s Germany, there is no doubt that Nazism has been a right-wing ideology when it has existed in the United States.

Yeah, the historical origins of the Nazis were on the left, but Hitler himself was mostly concerned with taking and holding power, rather than ideology itself (other than persecuting Jews, which was and is a goal not limited to the right), and modern neo-Nazi movements are a far-right thing

Was it, because the Nazis were in large part born out of the  Freikorps, who fought and won a near civil war against the leftists and internationalists looking towards the soviet union as an example to follow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 15, 2019, 04:40:43 PM
I don't think the origins of the Nazis were historically leftist for the most part (though former leftists were everywhere in these kinds of reactionary movements back then). However they did use leftist language which was something the French right had been doing from the days of General Boulanger. That was all coded in a way that a Frenchman or a German would instantly recognize as being right wing. But you kind of have to understand shit like Boulanger, Action Française, and George Sorel and centuries of German and French political culture to really get that, so it is all kind of pointless. Because none of the shit is really relevant today. Today Nazism is a right wing thing.

If you go back and listen to some of the Nazis slogans and what they claimed to represent in the 1920s, and you weren't a European of that era, you might think they had leftist roots or ideology but they really didn't. If you are interested in how that worked watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9PYCxIyyF8

You have to remember the conservatives, reactionaries, and right-wingers in Europe hated the Liberals and considered them the destroyers of all that was good. The values we consider, or at least used to consider, right wing over here in the US were definitely centrist or center-left bourgeois middle class type values.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2019, 06:55:25 PM
The idea that the right = pro-capitalist is fairly new and more Anglo-American in origin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 16, 2019, 03:28:11 AM
AFAIK the primary use of the left-right scale (which itself has a lot of problems even on a good day) is as a tool to bash or defend people/movements you dislike or like. As such details about where to put this or that person or movement doesn't strike me as extremely interesting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 16, 2019, 04:06:02 AM
The nazis weren't right.

They were wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 16, 2019, 11:32:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on November 16, 2019, 03:28:11 AM
AFAIK the primary use of the left-right scale (which itself has a lot of problems even on a good day) is as a tool to bash or defend people/movements you dislike or like. As such details about where to put this or that person or movement doesn't strike me as extremely interesting.


Don't like where your ideas are placed on the spectrum, huh?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 16, 2019, 02:46:31 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74352348_3079602062067263_5526527804960669696_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQkdAQJwudWXrQjHrfn9efNXp1tnABpA61Tsc42JDzpBFQlVzwtJrU5pixPZnhivFcY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=70254e00b61a802ef6863befadef1578&oe=5E57A654)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 16, 2019, 05:26:10 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 16, 2019, 11:32:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on November 16, 2019, 03:28:11 AM
AFAIK the primary use of the left-right scale (which itself has a lot of problems even on a good day) is as a tool to bash or defend people/movements you dislike or like. As such details about where to put this or that person or movement doesn't strike me as extremely interesting.


Don't like where your ideas are placed on the spectrum, huh?

Do you proudly own Mao and Stalin? No, you won't even accept Bernie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 16, 2019, 05:50:50 PM
Man you have to be one crazy paranoid fucker to believe that stupid shit :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 16, 2019, 06:33:37 PM
Quote

Do you proudly own Mao and Stalin? No, you won't even accept Bernie.

That's the thing though. Nobody would claim Mao and Co weren't left wing. People on the left will say historic communist dictators don't reflect their views, they were doing socialism totally wrong, etc... But they won't try to claim they were actually right wing.
On the other hand it is a huge thing on the right to insist the nazis were actually left wing.

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2019, 06:55:25 PM
The idea that the right = pro-capitalist is fairly new and more Anglo-American in origin.

Fairly new as in mid 19th century onwards.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 17, 2019, 12:39:57 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 16, 2019, 05:26:10 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 16, 2019, 11:32:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on November 16, 2019, 03:28:11 AM
AFAIK the primary use of the left-right scale (which itself has a lot of problems even on a good day) is as a tool to bash or defend people/movements you dislike or like. As such details about where to put this or that person or movement doesn't strike me as extremely interesting.


Don't like where your ideas are placed on the spectrum, huh?

Do you proudly own Mao and Stalin? No, you won't even accept Bernie.


What the fuck are you talking about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 17, 2019, 01:05:06 AM
Your knee-jerk defense of defining politics by a faulty metric.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 17, 2019, 11:04:32 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 17, 2019, 01:05:06 AM
Your knee-jerk defense of defining politics by a faulty metric.


And because of that I should be be defending Mao?  It's a spectrum.  Every person who is on it is on it with everyone else.  That doesn't mean I should "own" every other human being on the spectrum.  Not only are you tedious, but you are one stupid motherfucker.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 17, 2019, 11:43:00 AM
Why don't you apply these thought processes to Brain's post and your response to it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 17, 2019, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 17, 2019, 11:43:00 AM
Why don't you apply these thought processes to Brain's post and your response to it.

I took my own thoughts into the consideration when I posted the first time.  I would ask where you are going with this bullshit, but I ceased caring what you have to say.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 17, 2019, 12:54:00 PM
I would suggest not replying then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 17, 2019, 04:09:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75603977_2547311581972544_8488596097076297728_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQnegQs6yo00UqlW032nzBhufUIonahb5cGDuiG3xSXcSbwxPP-dZiNrTmpWQ93xmn0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=79b51a1f25b006ac69ad0d2c293c1fed&oe=5E491AB0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on November 17, 2019, 04:11:46 PM
Can't blame a Trumpist for thinking all politicians have secret plans they will only make public if elected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 18, 2019, 04:04:15 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/76644692_2524599197658682_678204176743792640_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnVHHplFwBwOBVd1YHvW_c3lrEkpsoqFgBJwtH_DqmEPNpvdmHi18UmPrXyA8fRQ3k&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=206f63f3ad3e7d59aba8ef4264cac861&oe=5E479186)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 18, 2019, 04:13:01 PM
I believe there were many investigations into that incident.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 18, 2019, 04:40:28 PM
That's just plain dishonest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on November 18, 2019, 05:25:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 18, 2019, 04:40:28 PM
That's just plain dishonest.

/Surprised Picachu
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 18, 2019, 07:27:38 PM
Wait what? What ambassador was raped, tortured, etc.?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2019, 07:31:16 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 18, 2019, 07:27:38 PM
Wait what? What ambassador was raped, tortured, etc.?

They're talking about the dude who got killed in Libya.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 18, 2019, 08:46:47 PM
I think that is a photo of people trying to save him.  The man was not raped or tortured.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 18, 2019, 09:46:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2019, 07:31:16 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 18, 2019, 07:27:38 PM
Wait what? What ambassador was raped, tortured, etc.?

They're talking about the dude who got killed in Libya.

The one who died of smoke inhalation when the State Department outpost was burned.  Sean Smith died the same way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 19, 2019, 04:21:53 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75118171_10206790787605477_4304781201782079488_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQljkjpDTcchw6YLTbW5WFq3_mYdXdQIX4qduyWP_Ig4xjJmkXL00X5Pgyarb00ArsM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c819565d4cb8559e51add7bd5d8ba278&oe=5E420867)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 19, 2019, 04:31:43 PM
Well the John Kerry's daughter one caught my eye, so I googled it.  It's mostly false.  Vanessa Kerry did marry Dr. Brian Nahed, who is of Iranian heritage.  But he was born and raised in the US...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 19, 2019, 04:33:42 PM
News people know each other. But I am just going to go out on a limb and guess none of that is actually true.

But even if it was, only old people watch the news anyway and I suspect Trump is winning with those demographics. So not to worry crazy conspiracy folks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 19, 2019, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 19, 2019, 04:33:42 PM
News people know each other. But I am just going to go out on a limb and guess none of that is actually true.

But even if it was, only old people watch the news anyway and I suspect Trump is winning with those demographics. So not to worry crazy conspiracy folks.

Well the next couple I googled (whom is married to whom) were true, so I don't really doubt the list.

And you know, it's not like more traditional conservatives haven't complained that there is a left-wing bias among the media, and that certainly extends to people moving inbetween the worlds of government and media.

But "bias" is still a long way from "fake news".  Just because the media is likely harder on a GOP President than they are on a Democrat President doesn't mean they just start making stuff up!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 19, 2019, 04:48:50 PM
Or I was going to say it is true but is misleading. Like there are hundreds of people at that company and they just found a few who happened to have relationships with media people who were tied to Democratic administrations. Therefore CONSPIRACY!!!11 Which is how it usually goes. The information is completely false or true but being presented in a way that still misinforms.

I also don't see what George Soros or Mullahs have to do with with media entities. Nice to see that you can hate and be paranoid of both Jews and Muslims. It is more inclusive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 19, 2019, 05:12:36 PM
Writing style and logic reminds me of a pro se complaint filed by someone with mental health issues.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 19, 2019, 05:28:42 PM
Yeah, I really need to stop sending those.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 19, 2019, 07:34:48 PM
Come to think of it, the most bizarre court filing I've seen is some time was the defamation case Devin Nunes' lawyer filed against Twitter
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 20, 2019, 06:08:40 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 19, 2019, 07:34:48 PM
Come to think of it, the most bizarre court filing I've seen is some time was the defamation case Devin Nunes' lawyer filed against Twitter

Is that the one about the cow?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 21, 2019, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 20, 2019, 06:08:40 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 19, 2019, 07:34:48 PM
Come to think of it, the most bizarre court filing I've seen is some time was the defamation case Devin Nunes' lawyer filed against Twitter

Is that the one about the cow?

Yes that's the one.
Apparently the cow twitter account went from a couple hundred followers before the lawsuit to 650,000 after.
The real Nunes doesn't have many more twitter followers than that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 22, 2019, 02:08:16 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75636081_2590880974340127_5104397764612063232_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=ClLJFcuE2lUAQlYI8tb45eWjfqzfqi9RMz09Bqn2EaeyUuq1BQWhtipBg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fc511d57d5ef7060201d48d840bfb2dd&oe=5E7F1A26)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74692518_2626480787400621_8376424577940586496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=7A74idypNP4AQkfbHtUhkJwy3R_dXU995COzrBUqiw4b7qUopumsqauaw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=adb11e80f07152f43b1b4a09a672807f&oe=5E54FA89)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 22, 2019, 09:14:35 AM
I love this thread, my inoculation against social media*  :)





*save Languish of course.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 22, 2019, 09:22:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73321923_149225129756684_4563382956495732736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=pST-J-8B5xgAQlUQ502KnrGiWJPk_l1SjQPLJjMrGrG-gt94ETmGIDjZw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8bcc9dfd6054d2ba7079217da537b607&oe=5E509E54)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on November 22, 2019, 09:32:17 AM
Democrat Hit List:
1.  Donald Trump
2.  Charlie Daniels
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 22, 2019, 11:35:27 AM
And here I thought right-wingers always derided using celebrities as some kind of political expert.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 22, 2019, 04:41:11 PM
I don't understand the paranoia there. The Congress is exercising its authority to prevent the President from abusing his power. Just because he was elected it does not grant him unlimited authority. Nor is doing an investigation of a Constitutional nature trying to destroy somebody personally.

It is our business we don't like Trump but clearly it is not, since if we do anything to act on that he takes it as proof we are out to destroy him...doesn't sound like he doesn't take it very personally that somebody doesn't like Trump. He takes it as a personal threat to himself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 22, 2019, 05:45:44 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 22, 2019, 09:22:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73321923_149225129756684_4563382956495732736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=pST-J-8B5xgAQlUQ502KnrGiWJPk_l1SjQPLJjMrGrG-gt94ETmGIDjZw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8bcc9dfd6054d2ba7079217da537b607&oe=5E509E54)
Like the Republicans trying to impeach Bill Clinton, or like the Republicans trying to block any legislative effort from Barrack Obama?

They are difficult to follow, sometimes ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 23, 2019, 01:19:15 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44118609_1938643152849264_3073045947782004736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=2FtYAl7SipgAQm5OtBY6SfI21Nt2QEIox7nu_YD1KKewlgVyJDujEUbug&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=15af93fc5a7f4149b371bc256562c903&oe=5E4174C5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 23, 2019, 05:03:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 23, 2019, 01:19:15 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44118609_1938643152849264_3073045947782004736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=2FtYAl7SipgAQm5OtBY6SfI21Nt2QEIox7nu_YD1KKewlgVyJDujEUbug&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=15af93fc5a7f4149b371bc256562c903&oe=5E4174C5)

:bleeding:

https://youtu.be/PxFm0vq1AbM?t=176
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 23, 2019, 09:51:12 AM
What's a time ship?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 23, 2019, 10:21:01 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 23, 2019, 09:51:12 AM
What's a time ship?

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Timeship
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 23, 2019, 10:32:15 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/76615042_2980441172181661_4199176563087900672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=Oz34B7mQ9moAQmGE959D8QCWME-JZFD6WuCEhcbKZZZBhGJbGKAl7gsIg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=30776122dc113b0a8a751f6cffa10a88&oe=5E8AF21B)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70677951_753796748374959_1203824396142116864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=Qlv3QgcGLCYAQnoK0iHntA3Jq1iQhcbz1UymZUTa6gSRpbaRJcAaAIVyQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2a2220cc1480f0da7f8ea27ee00d5f19&oe=5E4E0F70)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73191887_3172093342852709_1453271857561075712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=sYisnFjDdMkAQlZTq-m5WdGj3ir5oSFrdNRY1cPvY-_DttlDW_Qtecgsg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ec9265914a201270f47fb57feb412a7e&oe=5E429E0C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 23, 2019, 11:25:49 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 23, 2019, 10:32:15 AM

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73191887_3172093342852709_1453271857561075712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=sYisnFjDdMkAQlZTq-m5WdGj3ir5oSFrdNRY1cPvY-_DttlDW_Qtecgsg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ec9265914a201270f47fb57feb412a7e&oe=5E429E0C)

Don't remember anything about kids having to eat after the adults, but my stepfather was pretty much old school about thinking children should be seen and not heard.  That didn't mean that kids couldn't be there when adults were talking, just that we weren't supposed to take part in the conversation.  Which, generally speaking, we didn't want to be there, because we'd rather go play than listen to the adults talk out their asses about crap we didn't care about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 23, 2019, 12:08:00 PM
Maybe it's custom in some countries that adult ate first, but I've never heard of that in the US.  Maybe it's Pater Familias thing where the head of the family could just kill his children.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 23, 2019, 12:16:17 PM
It's probably a GOP thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 23, 2019, 03:53:15 PM
Yes the Iranians, Venezuelans, and Hong Kongers are all anarchists
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2019, 11:05:31 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75462239_1368742903292849_7597377244851339264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=i3uu2LW1Z-AAQm2w1T89V3TilR2t_PtQzKHl8dJzs59tnlR70O6wFcgJg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=832f4d2cd5d67093397c5f50f77de214&oe=5E864383)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on November 24, 2019, 03:23:51 PM
It's not that I'm trying to make sense of what you're posting, but is that a saying? To whoop someone ass?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 24, 2019, 03:37:39 PM
Sure is. Can be literal (spanking) but usually means to win a fight.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 24, 2019, 03:50:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 24, 2019, 03:37:39 PM
Sure is. Can be literal (spanking) but usually means to win a fight.

Surely that would be whoop someone's ass?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 24, 2019, 04:05:59 PM
What badass kids are they talking about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 24, 2019, 04:11:01 PM
Quote from: Liep on November 24, 2019, 03:23:51 PM
It's not that I'm trying to make sense of what you're posting, but is that a saying? To whoop someone ass?

They is ebonics for their.  To whoop someone's ass is to beat them up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2019, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: Liep on November 24, 2019, 03:23:51 PM
It's not that I'm trying to make sense of what you're posting, but is that a saying? To whoop someone ass?

Stone Cold Steve Austin regularly opened a can of whoop-ass on people in the late 90s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on November 24, 2019, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 24, 2019, 04:11:01 PM
Quote from: Liep on November 24, 2019, 03:23:51 PM
It's not that I'm trying to make sense of what you're posting, but is that a saying? To whoop someone ass?

They is ebonics for their.  To whoop someone's ass is to beat them up.

I had to look up ebonics but I see. It doesn't really compute with how I imagine Syt's American family though. :P But as I said, I've stopped trying to make sense of them, I just enjoy the insanity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 24, 2019, 06:21:43 PM
Quote from: Liep on November 24, 2019, 03:23:51 PM
It's not that I'm trying to make sense of what you're posting, but is that a saying? To whoop someone ass?

Basically it's a corruption of the word "whip" in this context.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 27, 2019, 11:19:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/10498314_10152642963902885_6423970130511864996_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=erPg2s2a2FEAQmWISfDtg3BcpKiTj40xsi7n468YgV-EEqwF_eS4HGL9A&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c3995b9115eeb3ac795f3ae342805394&oe=5E8555F0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 27, 2019, 11:26:47 AM
Bitching about bitching  :rolleyes:

Edit- "agian"  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on November 27, 2019, 11:26:57 AM
Wow, it didn't take much for Walmart employees to become militarized.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 27, 2019, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 27, 2019, 11:19:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/10498314_10152642963902885_6423970130511864996_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=erPg2s2a2FEAQmWISfDtg3BcpKiTj40xsi7n468YgV-EEqwF_eS4HGL9A&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c3995b9115eeb3ac795f3ae342805394&oe=5E8555F0)

"Agian"?

I hope these are the same folks bitching about America's educational system.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 27, 2019, 11:36:13 AM
"Others suffer, so you should have to as well" is so fucking stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 27, 2019, 11:43:32 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 27, 2019, 11:36:13 AM
"Others suffer, so you should have to as well" is so fucking stupid.

It is their go to thing. Unless you have it worse than military personnel actively deployed you should STFU.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 28, 2019, 01:34:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75429604_2506717106091166_1874091546337345536_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=vu01Ln0PdxkAQk5priJHxAeWezxYYCJYEFnk__1a5HL_p1QEMIByNR2Uw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=107af05b0fd669223d167a86174cee6c&oe=5E786F5A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 28, 2019, 02:07:21 AM
I think it is getting worst...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 28, 2019, 03:09:05 AM
I don't think bringing up the John Edwards thing is wise...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 28, 2019, 03:11:09 AM
Wait, a blowjob not amounts to "weird sex"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on November 28, 2019, 03:37:20 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 28, 2019, 03:11:09 AM
Wait, a blowjob not amounts to "weird sex"?

I think it probably meant the cigar stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 28, 2019, 06:01:05 PM
Are the Republicans in favor of any of those things?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on November 28, 2019, 06:41:47 PM
Unsurprisingly, Hillary has by far the longest list of misdeeds in that meme.  It's creepy the extent to which right wing nuts are obsessed with her.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 28, 2019, 07:25:19 PM
Quote from: Camerus on November 28, 2019, 06:41:47 PM
Unsurprisingly, Hillary has by far the longest list of misdeeds in that meme.  It's creepy the extent to which right wing nuts are obsessed with her.

She was Trump's opponent, it's perfectly natural why Trump supporters are obsessed with her.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on November 28, 2019, 08:27:29 PM
The Russian meme trolls producing and distributing this division fomenting content have done an impressive job.  Right-wingers who gobble it up, agreeing with the messages, have their biases confirmed while everyone else gets to laugh at those right-wing nuts for how ridiculous they are and have their own biases confirmed. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 28, 2019, 09:23:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 28, 2019, 07:25:19 PM
Quote from: Camerus on November 28, 2019, 06:41:47 PM
Unsurprisingly, Hillary has by far the longest list of misdeeds in that meme.  It's creepy the extent to which right wing nuts are obsessed with her.

She was Trump's opponent, it's perfectly natural why Trump supporters are obsessed with her.


No, it isn't.  Obama supporters weren't obsessed with Romney or McCain.  Bush supporters weren't obsessed with Gore or Kerry.  Clinton supporters weren't possessed with Dole or Bush.  The American right has been obsessed with Hillary Clinton for a quarter century.  It's not just some fringe thing either.  You hear the crazy conspiracy bullshit coming from people in Congress.  Hell, we had six Vince Foster investigations back in the 1990's and they still say Hillary Clinton murdered the guy.  Hillary has been a Fixe Idee for the GOP as long as I can remember.  I don't know why exactly, but it is true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 28, 2019, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 28, 2019, 09:23:28 PM
No, it isn't.  Obama supporters weren't obsessed with Romney or McCain.  Bush supporters weren't obsessed with Gore or Kerry.  Clinton supporters weren't possessed with Dole or Bush.  The American right has been obsessed with Hillary Clinton for a quarter century.  It's not just some fringe thing either.  You hear the crazy conspiracy bullshit coming from people in Congress.  Hell, we had six Vince Foster investigations back in the 1990's and they still say Hillary Clinton murdered the guy.  Hillary has been a Fixe Idee for the GOP as long as I can remember.  I don't know why exactly, but it is true.

Conceded.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 28, 2019, 11:53:39 PM
It doesn't help that the Dear Leader can't shut up about her.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 29, 2019, 02:49:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 28, 2019, 06:01:05 PM
Are the Republicans in favor of any of those things?
Donald can't stop thinking about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 29, 2019, 02:50:57 AM
Quote from: PRC on November 28, 2019, 08:27:29 PM
The Russian meme trolls producing and distributing this division fomenting content have done an impressive job.  Right-wingers who gobble it up, agreeing with the messages, have their biases confirmed while everyone else gets to laugh at those right-wing nuts for how ridiculous they are and have their own biases confirmed. 
Well, tbh, the Russian meme trolls are also producing left-wing aimed content.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 29, 2019, 02:52:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 28, 2019, 09:23:28 PM
I don't know why exactly, but it is true.
maybe because she is a woman who stands (well, stood) a chance of becoming President, and as such, she is a prime target to discourage others of trying it?  It was bad enough that a black men became President, what would happen to the World if a woman were to become President?  I think the only thing worst would be a black woman...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 29, 2019, 06:41:15 AM
Has Canada had a woman?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 29, 2019, 07:16:23 AM
It would do good for everyone if we admitted 99 percent of online shit is made by regular citizens and not some Russian IT guy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 29, 2019, 08:26:12 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 29, 2019, 06:41:15 AM
Has Canada had a woman?

For ~4 months. She wasn't elected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 29, 2019, 09:59:20 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 29, 2019, 07:16:23 AM
It would do good for everyone if we admitted 99 percent of online shit is made by regular citizens and not some Russian IT guy.
Yes, yes it would.  :menace:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 29, 2019, 10:25:00 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 29, 2019, 06:41:15 AM
Has Canada had a woman?
Kim Campbell, for 9 months.
lots of women at the provincial level too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 29, 2019, 01:47:12 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 29, 2019, 06:41:15 AM
Has Canada had a woman?

We did - with a famously saucy photo as well!

https://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/kim-campbell-qc/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 29, 2019, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 29, 2019, 06:41:15 AM
Has Canada had a woman?


I would hate to think that Canada is an incel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 29, 2019, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 29, 2019, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 29, 2019, 06:41:15 AM
Has Canada had a woman?


I would hate to think that Canada is an incel.

Have you seen the Canadian politics thread?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 29, 2019, 03:33:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 29, 2019, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 29, 2019, 06:41:15 AM
Has Canada had a woman?


I would hate to think that Canada is an incel.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 29, 2019, 05:49:06 PM
Hey, wasn't that incel revolution guy from Toronto?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on November 30, 2019, 08:47:39 PM
I wouldn't normally post a Rolling Stone Article, but, well, it's worth a read.  It's based on a two year study of online propaganda that is unfortunately paywalled.

That Uplifting Tweet You Just Shared? A Russian Troll Sent It (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russia-troll-2020-election-interference-twitter-916482/)

QuoteOn August 22, 2019, @IamTyraJackson received almost 290,000 likes on Twitter for a single tweet. Put in perspective, the typical tweet President Trump sends to his 67 million followers gets about 100,000 likes. That viral tweet by @IamTyraJackson was innocent: an uplifting pair of images of former pro football player Warrick Dunn and a description of his inspiring charity work building houses for single mothers. For an anonymous account that had only existed for only a few months, "Tyra" knew her audience well. Warrick's former coach, Tony Dungy, retweeted it, as did the rapper and producer Chuck D. Hundreds of thousands of real users viewed Tyra's tweet and connected with its message. For "Tyra," however, inspiring messages like this were a tool for a very different purpose.

The purpose of the Tyra account, we believe, was not to spread heartwarming messages to Americans. Rather, the tweet about Warrick Dunn was really a Trojan horse to gain followers in a larger plan by a foreign adversary. We think this because we believe @IamTyraJackson was an account operated by the successors to Russia's Internet Research Agency (IRA). Special Counsel Robert Mueller indicted the IRA for waging a massive information war during the 2016 U.S. election. Since then, the IRA seems to have been subsumed into Russia's Federal News Agency, but its work continues. In the case of @IamTyraJackson, the IRA's goal was two-fold: Grow an audience in part through heartwarming, inspiring messages, and use that following to spread messages promoting division, distrust, and doubt.

We've spent the past two years studying online disinformation and building a deep understanding of Russia's strategy, tactics, and impact. Working from data Twitter has publicly released, we've read Russian tweets until our eyes bled. Looking at a range of behavioral signals, we have begun to develop procedures to identify disinformation campaigns and have worked with Twitter to suspend accounts. In the process we've shared what we've learned with people making a difference, both in and out of government. We have experienced a range of emotions studying what the IRA has produced, from disgust at their overt racism to amusement at their sometimes self-reflective humor. Mostly, however, we've been impressed.

Professional trolls are good at their job. They have studied us. They understand how to harness our biases (and hashtags) for their own purposes. They know what pressure points to push and how best to drive us to distrust our neighbors. The professionals know you catch more flies with honey. They don't go to social media looking for a fight; they go looking for new best friends. And they have found them.

Disinformation operations aren't typically fake news or outright lies. Disinformation is most often simply spin. Spin is hard to spot and easy to believe, especially if you are already inclined to do so. While the rest of the world learned how to conduct a modern disinformation campaign from the Russians, it is from the world of public relations and advertising that the IRA learned their craft. To appreciate the influence and potential of Russian disinformation, we need to view them less as Boris and Natasha and more like Don Draper.

As good marketers, professional trolls manipulate our emotions subtly. In fall 2018, for example, a Russian account we identified called @PoliteMelanie re-crafted an old urban legend, tweeting: "My cousin is studying sociology in university. Last week she and her classmates polled over 1,000 conservative Christians. 'What would you do if you discovered that your child was a homo sapiens?' 55% said they would disown them and force them to leave their home." This tweet, which suggested conservative Christians are not only homophobic but also ignorant, was subtle enough to not feel overtly hateful, but was also aimed directly at multiple cultural stress points, driving a wedge at the point where religiosity and ideology meet. The tweet was also wildly successful, receiving more than 90,000 retweets and nearly 300,000 likes.

This tweet didn't seek to anger conservative Christians or to provoke Trump supporters. She wasn't even talking to them. Melanie's 20,000 followers, painstakingly built, weren't from #MAGA America (Russia has other accounts targeting them). Rather, Melanie's audience was made up of educated, urban, left-wing Americans harboring a touch of self-righteousness. She wasn't selling her audience a candidate or a position — she was selling an emotion. Melanie was selling disgust. The Russians know that, in political warfare, disgust is a more powerful tool than anger. Anger drives people to the polls; disgust drives countries apart.

Accounts like @IamTyraJackson have continued @PoliteMelanie's work. Professional disinformation isn't spread by the account you disagree with — quite the opposite. Effective disinformation is embedded in an account you agree with. The professionals don't push you away, they pull you toward them. While tweeting uplifting messages about Warrick Dunn's real-life charity work, Tyra, and several accounts we associated with her, also distributed messages consistent with past Russian disinformation. Importantly, they highlighted issues of race and gender inequality. A tweet about Brock Turner's Stanford rape case received 15,000 likes. Another about police targeting black citizens in Las Vegas was liked more than 100,000 times. Here is what makes disinformation so difficult to discuss: while these tweets point to valid issues of concern — issues that have been central to important social movements like Black Lives Matter and #MeToo — they are framed to serve Russia's interests in undermining Americans' trust in our institutions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 30, 2019, 09:10:33 PM
Quote from: frunk on November 30, 2019, 08:47:39 PM
I wouldn't normally post a Rolling Stone Article, but, well, it's worth a read.  It's based on a two year study of online propaganda that is unfortunately paywalled.

....


Thanks Frunk, very interesting article.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 01, 2019, 03:17:23 AM
It's simply bizzare when the right take this "you just hate anyone who doesn't agree with you" line.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 03, 2019, 01:32:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/77327152_10215151228034107_8363661150612619264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=OyJFj2_o_3gAQnS9_tqhMqYTFP5ru73RzW01bWy1t16Yyi96KZ_IaBcgQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=eef0f73911d2aeaa5de4704f20aeadd4&oe=5E412DD5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 03, 2019, 01:34:43 AM
Also:

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2018/12/31/abortion-leading-cause-of-death-in-2018-with-41-million-killed/?fbclid=IwAR24kndNwXH9OpUhjuIllUyX0qmpy2XsivGqxoWZfhnWLzNbyiTW_1cCjog

QuoteAbortion Leading Cause of Death in 2018 with 41 Million Killed

Abortion was the number one cause of death worldwide in 2018, with more than 41 million children killed before birth, Worldometers reports.

As of December 31, 2018, there have been some 41.9 million abortions performed in the course of the year, Worldometers revealed. By contrast, 8.2 million people died from cancer in 2018, 5 million from smoking, and 1.7 million died of HIV/AIDS.

Worldometers — voted one of the best free reference websites by the American Library Association (ALA) — keeps a running tally through the year of major world statistics, including population, births, deaths, automobiles produced, books published, and CO2 emissions.

It also records the total number of abortions in the world, based on the latest statistics on abortions published by the World Health Organization (WHO).

Globally, just under a quarter of all pregnancies (23 percent) were ended by abortion in 2018, and for every 33 live births, ten infants were aborted.

There were more deaths from abortion in 2018 than all deaths from cancer, malaria, HIV/AIDS, smoking, alcohol, and traffic accidents combined.

The staggering number of deaths from abortion, in fact, has led certain observers to call abortion "the social justice cause of our time," since judging from the sheer magnitude of the problem other human rights issues pale in comparison.

The year 2018 also saw the repeal of Ireland's Eighth Amendment, one of the last laws recognizing and protecting the right to life of unborn children.

Last week, the UK Department of Health revealed that in 2017 — the last year for which it has revised abortion statistics — the number of UK abortions hit a 10-year high.

The figures were released just before the Christian celebration of the Feast of the Holy Innocents on December 28, commemorating the decree by King Herod that all male children in Israel under the age of two were to be killed.

The annual March for Life in the United States will take place in Washington, D.C., on January 18, 2019 with the theme "Unique from Day One."

The stated purpose of the march is to end abortion by "uniting, educating, and mobilizing pro-life people in the public square."

The annual march commemorates the January 22, 1973 Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade that invalidated 50 state laws and made abortion legal and available on demand throughout the United States.


Yes, my sister shared a Breitbart link. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2019, 01:57:48 AM
23%...10/.23 = 43.5. So 33 live births. 10 are aborted. So 0.5/43.5 = 1%. Wow so 99% of pregnancies result in either a live birth or an abortion? Just over 1% total out of all pregnancies in the entire world result in a miscarriage or some other outcome besides a live birth or abortion? I do not believe that statistic. It seems like they are just comparing total births vs total abortions and ignoring every other outcome and just not counting them as a pregnancy in order to over-inflate abortion rates.

Wiki claims that 30% - 50% of all fertilizations result in a miscarriage of some sort (usually before the woman knows she is pregnant). So it is possible that therefore it is actually miscarriage that is the the social justice cause of our time and which is actually the leading cause of death.

But yes I realize it is Breitbart.

But, in any case, if they have no other ideas besides using the legal system they are not really moving the ball down the field much in preventing abortion. Medical research giving people more control over when they become pregnant is probably the only real solution if you find abortion a giant problem that must be ended.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 03, 2019, 02:00:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 03, 2019, 01:32:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/77327152_10215151228034107_8363661150612619264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=OyJFj2_o_3gAQnS9_tqhMqYTFP5ru73RzW01bWy1t16Yyi96KZ_IaBcgQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=eef0f73911d2aeaa5de4704f20aeadd4&oe=5E412DD5)

His mailman and barber better be wary!

I am not a professional pilot but given the choice between huge fuckup with a small plane versus unnecessarily complicated murder plot of some nobody I think the prior is more likely.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 03, 2019, 03:06:14 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 03, 2019, 01:34:43 AM
Also:

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2018/12/31/abortion-leading-cause-of-death-in-2018-with-41-million-killed/?fbclid=IwAR24kndNwXH9OpUhjuIllUyX0qmpy2XsivGqxoWZfhnWLzNbyiTW_1cCjog

QuoteAbortion Leading Cause of Death in 2018 with 41 Million Killed

Abortion was the number one cause of death worldwide in 2018, with more than 41 million children killed before birth, Worldometers reports.

As of December 31, 2018, there have been some 41.9 million abortions performed in the course of the year, Worldometers revealed. By contrast, 8.2 million people died from cancer in 2018, 5 million from smoking, and 1.7 million died of HIV/AIDS.

Worldometers — voted one of the best free reference websites by the American Library Association (ALA) — keeps a running tally through the year of major world statistics, including population, births, deaths, automobiles produced, books published, and CO2 emissions.

It also records the total number of abortions in the world, based on the latest statistics on abortions published by the World Health Organization (WHO).

Globally, just under a quarter of all pregnancies (23 percent) were ended by abortion in 2018, and for every 33 live births, ten infants were aborted.

There were more deaths from abortion in 2018 than all deaths from cancer, malaria, HIV/AIDS, smoking, alcohol, and traffic accidents combined.

The staggering number of deaths from abortion, in fact, has led certain observers to call abortion "the social justice cause of our time," since judging from the sheer magnitude of the problem other human rights issues pale in comparison.

The year 2018 also saw the repeal of Ireland's Eighth Amendment, one of the last laws recognizing and protecting the right to life of unborn children.

Last week, the UK Department of Health revealed that in 2017 — the last year for which it has revised abortion statistics — the number of UK abortions hit a 10-year high.

The figures were released just before the Christian celebration of the Feast of the Holy Innocents on December 28, commemorating the decree by King Herod that all male children in Israel under the age of two were to be killed.

The annual March for Life in the United States will take place in Washington, D.C., on January 18, 2019 with the theme "Unique from Day One."

The stated purpose of the march is to end abortion by "uniting, educating, and mobilizing pro-life people in the public square."

The annual march commemorates the January 22, 1973 Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade that invalidated 50 state laws and made abortion legal and available on demand throughout the United States.


Yes, my sister shared a Breitbart link. :bleeding:

Smoking is a cause of death now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2019, 02:55:29 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47572073_1991769087527438_8741065480304852992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=wH40jG6KFAgAQkPH_vZG6-DuJRXYfYMZNw2KiRWCaCF0RgQ4ZbmpAxthA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5a125102bb588cbe863726dabfe3c6ba&oe=5E888221)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 06, 2019, 03:04:59 PM
Who the fuck laughs at children for believing in Santa?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 06, 2019, 03:36:17 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 06, 2019, 03:04:59 PM
Who the fuck laughs at children for believing in Santa?

Syt's family
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 06, 2019, 04:17:21 PM
I only laugh at children who cry when I steal their candy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 06, 2019, 06:36:30 PM
RIP John Candy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on December 06, 2019, 08:11:14 PM
I think it reflects the social conservative mindset that progressives shit endlessly on their traditions, and kids believing in  Santa is a tradition, ergo they probably shit on kids believing in Santa too. Of course that's nonsense,  but that's my theory for that weird meme.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 06, 2019, 09:05:47 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on December 06, 2019, 03:04:59 PM
Who the fuck laughs at children for believing in Santa?

Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 06, 2019, 10:06:06 PM
Yeah that's right, he really did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2019, 02:14:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72637401_1760296847447093_7728807311442968576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=UOi1FscbZ54AQmMxjLorO6g_xjI1LEW8TsV3zWVfQe6C76uzDQPc_83nA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=22dc7795efe922a237f66b159c1fe4ba&oe=5E7D10C4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2019, 03:19:37 AM
Good one! Do the inauguration crowd next!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2019, 01:45:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/78849335_1881297988681073_9050189120004947968_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=IvDIvX67ekgAQnTDOdIPQNg3U_GDoq8GpFJzj1l-8DLkY2XAQNHS0yFOA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8fedb1fa2daa762d608df5436f26a4a7&oe=5E807B35)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78625678_2607374595966881_1349689950894817280_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=JOMDYib3opkAQkpYUjyenQF7mzm9arNaFYw-UIrGjocgUHu2RRpXgr7Gw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ce46f3e2fc9e93a080faea9070f9a3b3&oe=5E839211)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 09, 2019, 03:01:03 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 09, 2019, 01:45:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/78849335_1881297988681073_9050189120004947968_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=IvDIvX67ekgAQnTDOdIPQNg3U_GDoq8GpFJzj1l-8DLkY2XAQNHS0yFOA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8fedb1fa2daa762d608df5436f26a4a7&oe=5E807B35)

KJV? Now that is some fringe religious conservative stuff.

Quote from: Syt on December 09, 2019, 01:45:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78625678_2607374595966881_1349689950894817280_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=JOMDYib3opkAQkpYUjyenQF7mzm9arNaFYw-UIrGjocgUHu2RRpXgr7Gw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ce46f3e2fc9e93a080faea9070f9a3b3&oe=5E839211)

I would to. Any crude speaking leaders that love his people they want to recommend over the swamp monster?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 09, 2019, 03:16:24 PM
What's wrong with the KJV?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 09, 2019, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 09, 2019, 03:16:24 PM
What's wrong with the KJV?

Nothing. King James did a fine job...well besides using some questionable Greek manuscripts.

But the people who hold to the KJV as the true translation of the Bible and reject all later English translations, like those guys, are fringe radical fundamentalists...though the fundamentals of what I have no idea. Certainly not fundamentals based on the Bible, the KJV has many documented translation errors that have since been corrected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
The Noah analogy is perhaps not the most apt for a climate denier.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on December 09, 2019, 04:03:43 PM
The KJV's greatest value is probably just its literary one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2019, 01:33:55 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78648614_141347500613105_6475444968667217920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=HZzIF1ctgOoAQnagZM7EeTHKWRVHzRD_I6gq4r9qCXO_0wEGWVPw5UJpA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=803162c1bddd52bf4ee74a244a3269f8&oe=5E725919)


QuotePat Pope Jackson‎ to WOMEN FOR TRUMP: TEXAS EDITION
15 hrs
Obama paid Iran $1.7 Billion.
This was Sanction money.
This was done in SECRET.
He hid it from the American people.
He hid it from Congress.

Congress, why didn't you impeach Obama?

Trump haters, explain to me why this president deserves impeachment and you were silent about this BHO 'deal'.

And:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3AcMNDB3KA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3mCwrf4SFR75YtR2-HpyxD6Nl99TRHF1dsVLFSMfdekoBDB940D2-Co8I

QuoteTribute to Benghazi Heroes, we will never forget your murders

A tribute to our murdered American Heroes who were left to die at Benghazi. May their memories be eternal!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2019, 11:22:23 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78996048_10214927276367348_6259851702195716096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=5sxhrf6pdEUAQlEJ0_vSGruR3YlYDjjL6Wa50Bd1WkRL8g9kdvpBeHAdA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dbaca40fcfc3610d7f89810ff3fc4240&oe=5E692AAC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 10, 2019, 11:57:59 AM
We know that's not a Trump statement because it includes a lot of words he does not know, like "amendment" and "freedoms."  But, if you are stupid enough to support Trump, you are stupid enough to believe that anything that claims to come from his does, in fact, come from hi,

QuoteI am a fraud and a crook, and I think the Congress is right to impeach and convict me.

     - President Donald J. Trump

RT if you support the President!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 11, 2019, 03:33:26 AM
QuoteSo, if Hillary would have won would they have questioned her why her foundation has ties with Russia? It was the last president who told Putin to wait until after the election because then he, the president, can do more for him. And than there is the video of Biden bolstering about how they basically blackmailed the Ukraine to fire someone or they wouldn't get the money the US promised.
Such bigots and hateful people. Oh and btw they do not speak or represent me in any shape or form.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 11, 2019, 03:59:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 09, 2019, 02:14:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72637401_1760296847447093_7728807311442968576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=UOi1FscbZ54AQmMxjLorO6g_xjI1LEW8TsV3zWVfQe6C76uzDQPc_83nA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=22dc7795efe922a237f66b159c1fe4ba&oe=5E7D10C4)

I'm stumped with what this one is trying to say
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 11, 2019, 06:17:42 AM
Dems stuff ballot box with votes from dead people(goes back to Chicago in 1960) and Hillary kills witnesses(Vince Foster).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 11, 2019, 08:23:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 11, 2019, 03:33:26 AM
QuoteSo, if Hillary would have won would they have questioned her why her foundation has ties with Russia?

There would almost certainly have been tons of investigations into all of this, yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 11, 2019, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 11, 2019, 03:33:26 AM
QuoteSo, if Hillary would have won would they have questioned her why her foundation has ties with Russia? It was the last president who told Putin to wait until after the election because then he, the president, can do more for him. And than there is the video of Biden bolstering about how they basically blackmailed the Ukraine to fire someone or they wouldn't get the money the US promised.
Such bigots and hateful people. Oh and btw they do not speak or represent me in any shape or form.

Is this you speaking, or did you forget to cite the source?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 11, 2019, 08:36:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2019, 08:23:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 11, 2019, 03:33:26 AM
QuoteSo, if Hillary would have won would they have questioned her why her foundation has ties with Russia?

There would almost certainly have been tons of investigations into all of this, yes.

Everybody has "ties to Russia" if you extend the web of ties far enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 11, 2019, 08:42:32 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 11, 2019, 08:36:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2019, 08:23:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 11, 2019, 03:33:26 AM
QuoteSo, if Hillary would have won would they have questioned her why her foundation has ties with Russia?

There would almost certainly have been tons of investigations into all of this, yes.

Everybody has "ties to Russia" if you extend the web of ties far enough.

Hey I just said Congress would have almost certainly investigated the hell out of Hillary, they promised this during the election. They would not have found anything, but they would have investigated. I mean they already did this during the Obama administration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 11, 2019, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 11, 2019, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 11, 2019, 03:33:26 AM
QuoteSo, if Hillary would have won would they have questioned her why her foundation has ties with Russia? It was the last president who told Putin to wait until after the election because then he, the president, can do more for him. And than there is the video of Biden bolstering about how they basically blackmailed the Ukraine to fire someone or they wouldn't get the money the US promised.
Such bigots and hateful people. Oh and btw they do not speak or represent me in any shape or form.

Is this you speaking, or did you forget to cite the source?

It's a post by my sister.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2019, 02:48:46 AM
QuoteGregorio Pahihwikwasu'u Kishketon
December 8 at 7:41 AM
Barbara Walters writes:
Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country, but specific men who served and sacrificed during the Vietnam War.

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho LoPrison, the "Hanoi Hilton."

Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "peace activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received.

He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward onto the camp commandant 's feet, which sent that officer berserk.

In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied application of a wooden baton.

From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the "Hanoi Hilton". . . The first three of which his family only knew he was "missing in action." His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they were alive and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his Social Security Number on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper.

She took them all without missing a beat. . . At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him all the little pieces of paper...
Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Colonel Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know of her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development adviser in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.

I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one year in a cage in Cambodia; and one year in a 'black box' in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Banme Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border. At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.)

We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with her. I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received. . . and how different it was from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as "humane and lenient."

Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched with a large steel weight placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda soon after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She never did answer me.

These first-hand experiences do not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women." Lest we forget. . . "100 Years of Great Women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots.

There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer, and she needs to know that we will never forget.

:mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 12, 2019, 02:55:56 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2019, 02:48:46 AM
QuoteGregorio Pahihwikwasu'u Kishketon
December 8 at 7:41 AM
Barbara Walters writes:
Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country, but specific men who served and sacrificed during the Vietnam War.

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho LoPrison, the "Hanoi Hilton."

Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "peace activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received.

He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward onto the camp commandant 's feet, which sent that officer berserk.

In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied application of a wooden baton.

From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the "Hanoi Hilton". . . The first three of which his family only knew he was "missing in action." His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they were alive and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his Social Security Number on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper.

She took them all without missing a beat. . . At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him all the little pieces of paper...
Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Colonel Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know of her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development adviser in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.

I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one year in a cage in Cambodia; and one year in a 'black box' in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Banme Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border. At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.)

We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with her. I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received. . . and how different it was from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as "humane and lenient."

Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched with a large steel weight placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda soon after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She never did answer me.

These first-hand experiences do not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women." Lest we forget. . . "100 Years of Great Women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots.

There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer, and she needs to know that we will never forget.

:mad:
Hanoi Jane is not guilty, your honor.  As our dear Leader said, war prisoners are losers and he himself, as an example for our nation said we should prefer those who are not captured.

When faced with capture, one must do the hedgehog and keep the last bullet for himself to avoid capture at all costs.  These are fine words, spoken by a very fine gentlement in some very fine time.

Therefore, the fault entirely lie with Mr Driscoll for not avoiding capture in the first place...

I would have tought Republicans would get it...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 12, 2019, 01:51:22 PM
I have to hand it your family Syt, they really know how to hold grudges. I mean your sisters were probably not even born yet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2019, 01:56:05 PM
My "political" sisters were born in 1961 and 1963, respectively, but I think it's safe to say they didn't care about this until, say, 10, 15 years ago. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 12, 2019, 02:00:48 PM
Wow. Your sisters are old.

I guess that explains some things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 18, 2019, 04:58:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72279875_1363736823800508_6133596401180868608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=HFq4bPoQ9ZEAQng0wv-OrQv1HDQcP4kT35VX-bw3o4FyQiWeLud_40IEw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6c58f3bb383a32255b7ef94847c75070&oe=5E80B800)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79134846_498645037670657_1255003930815889408_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=_ifw9cUaDz4AQmJOjP7Za7Eq589r_pUP-3WHO9-_XtiWPAIHZXIb5eB5w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=81b437ca43f76031bd42fc84975dad52&oe=5EAF1E1C)

My sister also commented on Great Thunberg's "hypocrisy" because she wears a raincoat and what are they made of? Plastic! Made from Petroleum!!! Also that the mentally ill girl might end up killing herself because she's so distraught over the lies her parents indoctrinated with re: climate change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 08:47:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 18, 2019, 04:58:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72279875_1363736823800508_6133596401180868608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=HFq4bPoQ9ZEAQng0wv-OrQv1HDQcP4kT35VX-bw3o4FyQiWeLud_40IEw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6c58f3bb383a32255b7ef94847c75070&oe=5E80B800)

Man how brainwashed do you have to be to buy that nonsense? Christmas is everywhere and the only people who are offended by it are conservative religious people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on December 18, 2019, 09:01:16 AM
The War on Christmas is the religious rights favoritest war. They are not going to let the fact that it doesn't exist stop them from waging it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 18, 2019, 09:49:06 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 18, 2019, 09:01:16 AM
The War on Christmas is the religious rights favoritest war. They are not going to let the fact that it doesn't exist stop them from waging it.

Even I, an atheist liberal Jew, have a Christmas tree!  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 09:51:25 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 18, 2019, 09:49:06 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 18, 2019, 09:01:16 AM
The War on Christmas is the religious rights favoritest war. They are not going to let the fact that it doesn't exist stop them from waging it.

Even I, an atheist liberal Jew, have a Christmas tree!  :D

Well according to Syt's sister it is called a Holiday tree...by somebody I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 18, 2019, 09:57:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 09:51:25 AM

Well according to Syt's sister it is called a Holiday tree...by somebody I guess.

I've never heard that term actually used. I guess I don't know any real liberals.  :hmm:

Interestingly, actual Christians have waged a "war" on the Christmas tree, erecting "Chrismon Trees" instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrismon_tree
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 10:01:17 AM
Yeah as I said the overwhelming majority of people who actually wants to wage a war on Christmas are conservative religious types, not raging atheist liberals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 18, 2019, 10:07:59 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 10:01:17 AM
Yeah as I said the overwhelming majority of people who actually wants to wage a war on Christmas are conservative religious types, not raging atheist liberals.

To be fair, I can see their point. In the modern west, Christmas has become basically a baccanal of consumerism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 18, 2019, 10:32:34 AM
It's so much better to celebrate jul.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 10:57:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 18, 2019, 10:07:59 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 10:01:17 AM
Yeah as I said the overwhelming majority of people who actually wants to wage a war on Christmas are conservative religious types, not raging atheist liberals.

To be fair, I can see their point. In the modern west, Christmas has become basically a baccanal of consumerism.

Well that I have some sympathy for (though even in the pre-modern West it was a baccanal)...but usually it is for much more theological reasons than that. They are the kind of Jews who find Christmas idolatrous. They are conservative Christians who find it pagan. That kind of thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 18, 2019, 11:20:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 10:57:19 AM
Quote from: Malthus on December 18, 2019, 10:07:59 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 10:01:17 AM
Yeah as I said the overwhelming majority of people who actually wants to wage a war on Christmas are conservative religious types, not raging atheist liberals.

To be fair, I can see their point. In the modern west, Christmas has become basically a baccanal of consumerism.

Well that I have some sympathy for (though even in the pre-modern West it was a baccanal)...but usually it is for much more theological reasons than that. They are the kind of Jews who find Christmas idolatrous. They are conservative Christians who find it pagan. That kind of thing.

The Jewish response to Christmas has been complex, to say the least.  :D Ranges from openly adopting it as a secular holiday (which my family did) to attempting to replace it with Hannukah, formerly a very minor holiday.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jews-christmas/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 18, 2019, 11:29:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 18, 2019, 09:51:25 AM


Well according to Syt's sister it is called a Holiday tree...by somebody I guess.

That person was... Donald Trump!

QuoteThe Trump Tower Millennium Holiday Tree" — as described in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer and news releases — was a 45-foot perforated metal, gold-coated, fiber-optic-lighted treelike structure unveiled at Trump Tower a month before the turn of the century.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/25/when-trump-forbade-a-christmas-tree-and-other-forgotten-stories-from-the-war-on-christmas/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 18, 2019, 11:31:11 AM
Trump is a genius 5D chess player masterminding stuff in ways we cannot understand.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 18, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
The real conflict is the war on Candlmas.  Why isn't anyone talking about that injustice?  Also, why no Holy Rood day?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 18, 2019, 11:42:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 18, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
The real conflict is the war on Candlmas.  Why isn't anyone talking about that injustice?  Also, why no Holy Rood day?

I saw them opening for Ghost. What's the war about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 18, 2019, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 18, 2019, 11:31:11 AM
Trump is a genius 5D

But enough about his high school report card.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 19, 2019, 04:43:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79953270_10215873099524352_1284223688547237888_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=xg-NmPLmQIUAQnkI-t4jpEKSkMMlEcKaZrHhBlSPCHiOodEKWG7vCfkRw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=92a23bdda8ed53de72a7df5b2b529d06&oe=5EB07E30)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79940789_145056210242234_7394737900392284160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=g6BaVv9b2e8AQmWy02XAq5UScf2BTt1ktfXZRY3-1lp-LaiRns5Jtpy-Q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9ebf2eb5277431ef603f9691f11159f3&oe=5E7662DE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 19, 2019, 11:23:25 AM
Oh yeah shall we compare to all the rural decay lost to meth addiction after decades of voting Republican?

Anyway I guess you should thank us for taking these AfD voters off your hands.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 19, 2019, 12:58:42 PM
Saw this on Twitter, not Facebook, but I liked it.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMHZ2D2X0AAc2x6?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 19, 2019, 02:08:37 PM
It is true that all three impeached Presidents were assholes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 19, 2019, 02:16:34 PM
I like the picture and I like the play on Trump's comment about Johnny Hero, but I dislike the over-hyping of the impeachment vote.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 19, 2019, 02:22:17 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 18, 2019, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 18, 2019, 11:31:11 AM
Trump is a genius 5D

But enough about his high school report card.

:o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 19, 2019, 04:32:30 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJWQPyCUwAA1vKI?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 19, 2019, 04:33:51 PM
That he is.  I just wish he wasn't exposing it by hiring the people doing it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 19, 2019, 06:58:50 PM
Err, Trump is the guy who had to shut down his own crooked foundation and send his kids off to school to learn how not to be grifters like dad is, right?  Is he claiming now that his plea bargaining is 'draining the swamp?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 21, 2019, 08:07:53 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 19, 2019, 04:43:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79953270_10215873099524352_1284223688547237888_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=xg-NmPLmQIUAQnkI-t4jpEKSkMMlEcKaZrHhBlSPCHiOodEKWG7vCfkRw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=92a23bdda8ed53de72a7df5b2b529d06&oe=5EB07E30)



Technically, it was the Liberal-Democrat party in Japan for most of post-wwii though.  :P
Of course, it's a conservative party, from an extremely homogeneous country almost no immigration so I could see why it could appeal in theory to some.  :D
The Japanese « model » is not easily exportable though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 21, 2019, 05:16:26 PM
I'm sure the 99.8% conviction rate would appeal to some.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 22, 2019, 12:56:38 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74333550_10221077386468828_1077450317806698496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=xDGSjLBWNSwAQmaW1rTxID4G0ZI8wKCtDhUQ5Kvjo5IATYJ5QsxSP7dOQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4e1df9d37bcf17f0394462037b9bf5b2&oe=5E6789B8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on December 22, 2019, 01:23:22 PM
It is heartwarming to see that these savings offset all the new deficit overruns from the latest tax breaks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on December 22, 2019, 01:29:21 PM
I do have to say that Trumps over the top and completely superficial genuflecting at the shrine of the military is just fucking repulsive. And I am completely pro-military.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 22, 2019, 05:10:05 PM
The military worship of the right never ceases to disturb me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 22, 2019, 05:51:40 PM
I think it's horribly bad of a POTUS not to keep his salary (even if I have to assume that Trump does keep it, since they say he doesn't). It sends the signal that if you're not wealthy you shouldn't be in office.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 23, 2019, 08:12:08 AM
If you spend most of your time golfing and tweeting, don't review papers, and never hold a press conference, why do you need any White House staff at all?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on December 23, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
Quote from: Tyr on December 22, 2019, 05:10:05 PM
The military worship of the right United States never ceases to disturb me.
Fixed that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2019, 11:22:37 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 23, 2019, 08:12:08 AM
If you spend most of your time golfing and tweeting, don't review papers, and never hold a press conference, why do you need any White House staff at all?

Those emails to the Proud Boys don't write themselves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 23, 2019, 11:23:31 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on December 23, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
Quote from: Tyr on December 22, 2019, 05:10:05 PM
The military worship of the right United States people BA sneers at never ceases to disturb me.
Fixed that.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 24, 2019, 02:05:40 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on December 23, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
Quote from: Tyr on December 22, 2019, 05:10:05 PM
The military worship of the right United States never ceases to disturb me.
Fixed that.

I am just glad there is some national institution we all agree is ok.

Besides I am grateful for every person who volunteers for service. If they didn't well...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 03, 2020, 07:48:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80368534_3358865487520770_6847281006404173824_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=99ZUIaKn79oAQmy0iLBy1mVNA9fAc3tsIVxc8-NeGCjxcdrc0uuDE3GMA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8e4ecfa84ba8af26c8b272d6cb500dee&oe=5EA5F66C)

(posted 2 days ago)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 04, 2020, 04:30:42 AM
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/usmc-major-slams-virginia-lawmakers-your-same-mindset-is-what-150-years-ago-led-this-country-into-a-civil-war/

QuoteUSMC major slams VA lawmakers: "Your mindset is what 150 years ago led this country into a civil war."

We have widely reported on Virginia's run on the constitutional right of gun owners in that state. The Democrats in the Virginia House are poised to impose controversial, and likely unconstitutional gun laws in that state, including a program to register firearms.

As we have reported, gun registration has historically been the first step in confiscation by extremis regimes worldwide.

At a Dec. 3 meeting of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, U.S. Marine Corps Reservist Maj. Ben Joseph Woods addressed the board and admonished Commonwealth of Virginia lawmakers for their plans to pass sweeping gun laws after they gain the majority next week.

In an unprecedented threat against the Second Amendment, the governor of Virginia, Ralph Northam, has even suggested that he will bring in the National Guard to enforce the gun laws.

This threat probably did not have the effect Northam wanted, which was probably for pro-gun forces to back down. Instead, over 79% of counties in Virginia had declared themselves Second Amendment sanctuary counties as of Dec. 18, 2019.

As Maj. Woods addressed the meeting, he spoke of his time in the military and federal law enforcement and what he feared politicians were doing to the state:

"I'm not going to address the bills themselves. What I would like to address is the fact that at this point, so many people believe that these are unconstitutional or draconian that as of last night, 30 counties in this state which have voted themselves...to be Second Amendment sanctuary counties.

The ugly truth of our situation is that is just scratching the surface of what is happening...I work plainclothes law enforcement...I walk around without a uniform, people don't see my badge, people don't see my gun, and I can tell you: People are angry.

And I am frightened to the point that I am looking at moving my wife and child...out of this state if these bills pass. The reason is because my fellow law enforcement officers...

Tell me that they would not enforce these bills regardless of whether they believe in them ideologically because they believe that there are so many people angry in gun shops, gun shows, at bars, we have heard it now, people talking about tar and feathering politicians in a less than joking manner...

That is a terrifying prospect and I have never seen people willing to speak about something like that publicly...As a law enforcement officer, I empathize with concerns people have over gun violence."

When asked to sum up, Maj. Woods concluded with this warning:

"The legal precedent we would set by allowing the legislature to selectively ignore enumerated rights at will is the same mindset that 150 years ago let this country into a civil war."

Last week, we wrote about the new gun laws proposed by the liberal politicians in Virginia, the push for Second Amendment sanctuaries, and a warning from George Mason economics professor Dr. Walter Williams.

Recently, several counties and other municipal entities in Virginia have enacted so-called "Second Amendment Sanctuary" ordinances or laws, which has appeared to back Northam off a bit from an outright ban, at least on its face. However, in all things done by liberals, when you are looking at the left hand, watch out for what the right hand is doing.

Breitbart News, on December 10 suggested that Northam had pivoted from an outright ban on assault weapons to instead suggesting that a ban would only come about when an owner refused to register the firearm with the Commonwealth of Virginia.

According to the Virginia Mercury, Northam spokesperson Alena Yarmosky suggested that Northam's assault weapon ban "will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period."

People who comply with the registration will be allowed to keep the weapons, at least for now.

On Dec. 27, Dr. Walter E. Williams, George Mason University economics professor, in an op-ed on Fox News warned Virginia residents about Northam's gun registry plan. In the editorial, he warned Virginians "not to fall for the registration trick. Knowing who owns what weapons is the first step to confiscation."

Williams continued:

Virginians must heed the words and capture the spirit of their two most distinguished citizens, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, who wrote the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions. These resolutions referred to the federal government but are just as applicable to state governments in principle.

They said: "Resolved, That the several States composing the United States of America are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their General Government...and whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated posers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force."

James Madison, in Federalist Paper No. 46 wrote that the Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
Too many Americans believe the Second Amendment grants Americans the right to own firearms only to go hunting and for self-protection. The framers of our Constitution had no such intent in mind.

Williams continues that these laws, which make politicians and liberals feel good, but which are largely ineffective, will have zero impact on criminals in Virginia, but rather a significant impact on law-abiding citizens of the state, most of whom own semi-automatic weapons for hunting or self-protection. As Williams said quoting a friend of his:

"I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop."
As of this writing, 86 of 95, or 91% of Virginia's counties have declared themselves Second Amendment Sanctuaries in which future gun controls passed by Northam and his Democrat colleagues will not be enforced.

One can imagine that this may not end well. On Dec 12, Breitbart noted that Northam vowed "consequences" for any counties that refuse gun control. Both sides of the issue appear to be digging in.

Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring said that Second Amendment Sanctuary resolutions cannot overturn state laws. In a letter, Herring said:

"It is my opinion that these resolutions have no legal effect. It is my further opinion that localities and local constitutional officers cannot nullify state laws and must comply with gun violence prevention measures that the General Assembly may enact."
Funny, these liberal politicians do not seem to have an issue with government entities declaring themselves "immigration sanctuaries" where they refuse to comply with immigration laws.

Can you say hypocrites? At least the sanctuaries being implemented in Virginia have the backing of the United States Constitution.

In Culpeper County, Sheriff Scot Jenkins vowed during a board of supervisors meeting that he would "properly screen and deputize thousands of our law-abiding citizens to protect their constitutional right to own firearms" in response to the board's unanimous declaration of the county as a Second Amendment constitutional county.

Here is a little history lesson for you all about gun confiscation. You will probably see a common thread.

On December 10, 1918, in the Soviet Union, the Council of People's Commisar mandated that Soviet citizens turn in their firearms. Failure to do so led to criminal prosecution. After the end of World War II, the countries of Bulgaria, East Germany and Hungary all confiscated guns or banned private ownership of guns.

In Germany, the Weimar government, which was in power prior to Adolf Hitler's regime, were responsible for gun registration. The intent at the time was for public order, to keep the peace between Nazis and Communists. This set the framework for Hitler and the Nazis to disarm the Jews because they knew who had guns, and well, the rest is history...and not very good history.

Prior to Fidel Castro coming into power, the previous regime had implemented firearms registration. When Castro came into power, the legwork had already been done. Castro schmoozed the people of Cuba in a speech, saying:

"Guns for what? To fight against whom? Against the Revolutionary government that has the support of the people?"
Well played, Fidel.

Following that speech, gun confiscation commenced in Cuba, slowly at first. Initially they targeted rival revolutionary groups, then expanded the definition to disarm more of the population.

Cuba currently leaves firearm regulations in the hands of the National Revolutionary Police, the Ministry of the Interior, and the Ministry of the Revolutionary Armed Forces. As President Trump stated, Cuba is now a third world sh*thole, thanks in no small part to Castro and his disarming the populace.

In 2012, Venezuela banned the sale of firearms and ammunition, under the premise of fighting crime. Only the army, police and security companies can buy arms from state-owned weapons manufacturers.

Despite that, crime rates continue to skyrocket, and Venezuelan citizens have no means to defend themselves. Currently, the Venezuelan Armed Forces oversee firearms regulation, with the power to register, control and confiscate firearms.

Recently, on June 7, 2018, the Constitutional Court of South Africa ordered 300,000 firearms to be confiscated. The beginning of this program can be traced back to the Firearms Control Act of 2000, which included gun registration. First came registration, then confiscation.

Could something like this happen in the United States? One would think that since we have a Bill of Rights in place within our Constitution, and the Second Amendment guarantees citizens of the United States the right to keep and bear arms, probably not.

The natural first step for a government to seize weapons is to know WHO has them. That only makes sense. When you have laws such as the ones proposed in Virginia and other states, one could make the argument that it is a logical first step toward total confiscation.

A disarmed populace is not match for a repressive apparatus that has a monopoly on weapons. The framers of our Constitution were smart to recognize this in coming up with the Second Amendment.

Anti-gun zealots tell us that they know best what is good for us. They make the lame and hollow argument that when the framers constructed the Constitution, there was "no such thing as assault weapons like the AR-15 and AK-47" and that the amendment only covered muskets.

The abject stupidity of such statements is so absurd that they do not deserve comment. One could make the same claim about the First Amendment if you take arguments such as this to their illogical conclusion.

"The framers wrote the First Amendment when people wrote on sheepskin with quill pens. They never anticipated the Internet."
Stupid, right?

Liberals think that they know better than us what is good for us. Disagreement is not allowed, and if you don't buy into their feel good, politically correct bull crap, you are an alt-right extremist.

There is no room for debate. Free speech and other rights only apply to them, not to people with whom they disagree.

We have said it before, and we will say it again. Keep an eye on Virginia. The last Civil War ended in Virginia...the next one may start there.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 04, 2020, 04:36:05 AM
They didn't mention the Sword Hunt. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 04, 2020, 02:09:07 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81437748_10218303106986687_2164705040927817728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=na3sk1QSPNQAQkWVFOsTkkhVc7ElfPWXthSOrlYs1GCLppDO1-Myw9kCw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=95ee0349b2b51c57c4885561a58ba4c3&oe=5E932498)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81224944_2855151017870181_432873527377395712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=vLYe4iR_RiIAQljno1qS4d1JmzWtnJQKOSo7FsIdfTQrUyBWhwVpie45Q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1d5741a1be02ea40e5386bf6224b8968&oe=5EB0289A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 05, 2020, 11:53:00 AM
Obama is a secret Iranian? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2020, 12:27:20 PM
I don't know. It is hard to keep track of all the strawmen and conspiracy theories as they go by.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 05, 2020, 12:37:00 PM
I figured it was about Obama being a Muslim.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 05, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 05, 2020, 12:37:00 PM
I figured it was about Obama being a Muslim.

I don't think that it is mentally healthy to try to figure out all the dog whistles on the loony right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 05, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
QuoteVickie Paladino for NYCLike Page
22 hrs ·
For those people who want to apologize to Iran for the killing of Qassem Soleimani, I present you with Army Captain Brian S. Freeman.

Brian was a loving husband, father, Olympic caliber athlete and Army Civil Affairs team leader who actually cared about people regardless of who they were, where they came from, what God they worshipped, or their politics.

13 years ago this month, Cpt. Brian Freeman and his team of Civil Affairs soldiers were in Karbala, Iraq at a meeting to help improve the lives of the people of that province.

During that meeting, a team under the command of Gen. Qassem Soleimani, stormed in, killing a number of American's, and capturing Brian and several members of his team.

The captured CA team members were handcuffed, driven away from the meeting and later executed. Once found, in spite of our best efforts, several medics, including myself, unsuccessfully attempted to save Brian.

Captain Freeman is but one of the lives lost due to the evil of Qassem Soleimani. Qassem Soleimani was an evil person whose end, regardless of the politics surrounding it is a good thing.

With that, anyone apologizing to Iran for Soleimani's death is, I feel, pandering to an oppressive regime out of either ignorance, moral bankruptcy, or in a heartless attempt at self-promotion.

Rest in Peace Brian.

(If you feel the same, please share this post.)

https://www.iraqwarheroes.org/freemanbs.htm

QuoteChad Prather
51 mins
The American left will kill a million unborn babies every year but cry over a dead terrorist.

The grace of God is gone from this country. Good luck because luck is all we are left with.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/81123879_10215195654267154_8149261464142610432_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=veZHPJQi4YMAQmis37GtFp1dtpuScxc8EAOKvdRdpT99VPTxW6zjJ-I3w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fe69322635cb2c9fef123295d340ecfa&oe=5EA487F5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2020, 01:57:28 PM
It is your imaginary scenario, don't blame the rest of us if it confuses you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 05, 2020, 05:03:39 PM
Iran attacked an embassy?
Are they referring to the famous thing decades ago here or did something happen recently that has passed me by?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 05, 2020, 05:10:52 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 05, 2020, 05:03:39 PM
Iran attacked an embassy?
Are they referring to the famous thing decades ago here or did something happen recently that has passed me by?

B
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 05, 2020, 05:34:17 PM
It's ostensibly in response to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_attack_on_the_United_States_embassy_in_Baghdad
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 07, 2020, 01:55:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81271669_3492759947432459_2911964320331988992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ohc=WMUoW5O0jHwAX-2lFIr&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a3acfe93dfc4d9180f230c8559d40b1b&oe=5E93A082)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 08, 2020, 01:40:23 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/81856308_2210224899282256_8742166473696346112_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=iIzShA2FBv8AX_4uGpF&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&_nc_tp=1&oh=6f053daeb3e4a8361a65ba686ae2c8e6&oe=5E8FC63F)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81981556_2621275417969246_6159220210428542976_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=eDZdJRHMVWsAX9trGZW&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=761593b0cd45a1b6706c9d81853271f6&oe=5E8FBE5A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 08, 2020, 02:34:11 AM
It's so far away...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 08, 2020, 09:09:35 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/81836743_2719501031430918_6692730224620077056_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=vPcAoCq0QeYAX9FqAJ3&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&_nc_tp=1&oh=d1bba7bf8ef4a5b6645f2af4b016483f&oe=5E9FD5FC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 08, 2020, 09:14:30 AM
Me thankful too. :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 08, 2020, 09:54:48 AM
To be fair, as far as your sister's posts go Syt, it's fairly reasonable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 08, 2020, 10:07:18 AM
Facts for once.
Selective facts.
But facts nonetheless.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2020, 07:14:11 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50196265_2265959033622655_4747846935660986368_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=irRFqeFJDlAAX_vn-h_&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3166c2386d5a4849ce1ab48cb2a2476b&oe=5E9D452F)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43093408_10156103127158843_6904339681291272192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=xnLFN9sGUSAAX-rqVti&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2924c7af015211abc7039dd4c5ca24d7&oe=5E9A305B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 13, 2020, 07:27:08 AM
Getting closer to admitting she's in the wrong there.  Recognising that trump is messing up some people's lives at least.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 13, 2020, 07:27:55 AM
Good grief.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 13, 2020, 07:40:36 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 13, 2020, 07:27:08 AM
Getting closer to admitting she's in the wrong there.  Recognising that trump is messing up some people's lives at least.

That seems to be a pretty common tactic.  Trump may be a lying bastard but at least I can keep my guns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2020, 08:34:39 AM
My sister also posted that the US should bring back the draft, because it would stop young people from whining and asking to take money away from rich people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 13, 2020, 09:31:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2020, 08:34:39 AM
My sister also posted that the US should bring back the draft, so that the Trump family could dodge it again.

Fixed for her
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 13, 2020, 09:36:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2020, 08:34:39 AM
My sister also posted that the US should bring back the draft, because it would stop young people from whining and asking to take money away from rich people.

Yeah she really hates young people. They need to get off her lawn.

Anyway she already posted that peanuts thing years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 13, 2020, 10:44:37 AM
Wait, God causes bad things to happen and so we should put God in our lives?

North American evangelical apocalyptic Christianity - God help them.  And - since they help elect the leader of the most power powerful nation on earth - us.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2020, 10:47:07 AM
Tbf, my two oldest sisters' husbands were in the Army (non of them saw combat action, even though one of them served 25 years till 2009 or so). My oldest sister's two oldest sons were in the Navy,  and her other two in the Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (though it looks neither of them will join the military for realz). My middle sister's daughter is married to an Army Sgt. So "the military is good for you" runs in their blood.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 13, 2020, 11:07:29 AM
I thought God was everywhere?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 13, 2020, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 13, 2020, 09:31:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2020, 08:34:39 AM
My sister also posted that the US should bring back the draft, so that the Trump family could dodge it again.

Fixed for her

Trump couldn't help it that the ONE DAY IN HIS LIFE that he happened to suffer from bone spurs was, unfortunately, the day he took his draft physical.  The US could have won the war in Vietnam so much that the US would have gotten tired of winning.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 13, 2020, 12:11:37 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 13, 2020, 11:07:29 AM
I thought God was everywhere?

And he's a rat bastard who loves killing people, as the examples showed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 13, 2020, 12:15:43 PM
Wouldn't the obvious message be America is being punished for electing such a sinful, heathen leader?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 13, 2020, 12:58:13 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2020, 10:47:07 AM
Tbf, my two oldest sisters' husbands were in the Army (non of them saw combat action, even though one of them served 25 years till 2009 or so). My oldest sister's two oldest sons were in the Navy,  and her other two in the Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (though it looks neither of them will join the military for realz). My middle sister's daughter is married to an Army Sgt. So "the military is good for you" runs in their blood.

Somebody needs to break it to her that her family lives off of money paid by others.  They should be in favour of a proper taxation system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 13, 2020, 01:04:36 PM
SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 13, 2020, 02:11:55 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2020, 10:47:07 AM
Tbf, my two oldest sisters' husbands were in the Army (non of them saw combat action, even though one of them served 25 years till 2009 or so). My oldest sister's two oldest sons were in the Navy,  and her other two in the Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (though it looks neither of them will join the military for realz). My middle sister's daughter is married to an Army Sgt. So "the military is good for you" runs in their blood.


They probably had grandparents, and great-grand parents in the military as well.  How well did it work out for them?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 13, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
There were properly drafted to defend the Vaterland. They had little time to whine about taking away money from rich people. The Germans preferred hyperinflation to do that anyway, rather than just taking it, so clearly this policy was a success.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 13, 2020, 04:13:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2020, 08:34:39 AM
My sister also posted that the US should bring back the draft, because it would stop young people from whining and asking to take money away from rich people.

Yes arming and militarizing the angry poor. That's worked great for rich people in the past :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on January 13, 2020, 04:39:10 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 13, 2020, 04:13:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 13, 2020, 08:34:39 AM
My sister also posted that the US should bring back the draft, because it would stop young people from whining and asking to take money away from rich people.

Yes arming and militarizing the angry poor. That's worked great for rich people in the past :P

"I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half." - Attributed to Jay Gould (probably apocryphal ...)

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2020, 04:15:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iypwvsq811Q&fbclid=IwAR0aDGbragobTy6JFsiNP7wuNzai_n5b-mI7qcR0izVU3FTDlAoyC5mZ9GU

QuoteFBI Confirms Islamic Jihadi Training Camps in America
17,250 views•Feb 17, 2018

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Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 16, 2020, 04:18:40 PM
Who posted that on Facebook?

And excuse me for thinking that maybe this group really just wants my money :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2020, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 16, 2020, 04:18:40 PM
Who posted that on Facebook?

And excuse me for thinking that maybe this group really just wants my money :P

My sister shared that video. It seems to be a Fox News segment about such camps. She commented that she wouldn't be surprised if the next major terror attack in the US would come from one of these camps.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2020, 04:21:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82122545_3100463376649557_2773969009681367040_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=4pU0O4mqzd0AX8Q-HJv&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2e6a2a92dfa8bfa0914341332eb384de&oe=5E957AFD)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 16, 2020, 04:21:56 PM
I mean according to that link the FBI publicly released their location almost two years ago. I guess Islamic Jihad just wants its terrorists really really well trained.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 16, 2020, 04:27:51 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 16, 2020, 04:21:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82122545_3100463376649557_2773969009681367040_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=4pU0O4mqzd0AX8Q-HJv&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2e6a2a92dfa8bfa0914341332eb384de&oe=5E957AFD)

That is certainly a narrative one might put together.

It is so tired though. I have been hearing this line for at least thirty years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 16, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
I wish states would enforce the anti-militia laws they already have on the books.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 16, 2020, 04:52:13 PM
I am 99.9% certain that the founders didn't write the Second Amendment to protect people against repeal of mandatory voter ID laws.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 16, 2020, 05:12:22 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 16, 2020, 04:52:13 PM
I am 99.9% certain that the founders didn't write the Second Amendment to protect people against repeal of mandatory voter ID laws.

As usual everything in that post is either:

1. A lie. Some shit that was just made up.

2. Something dramatically misrepresented.

3. Linked together in a string of cause and effect that did not occur and likely happened in an entirely different order.

I just get so tired of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 16, 2020, 05:26:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 16, 2020, 05:12:22 PM
I just get so tired of it.

Yet you still open this thread.   :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2020, 05:28:15 PM
If it's Virginia that's saying this, surely you can get more than 80,000 signatures on a recall petition.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 16, 2020, 05:29:44 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 16, 2020, 05:26:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 16, 2020, 05:12:22 PM
I just get so tired of it.

Yet you still open this thread.   :hmm:

Well first I was commenting on this kind of propaganda in general not asking Syt to stop posting. Second if it is posted on Languish I have this pathological compulsion to check it out. It is why I keep reading the Mono thread :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 16, 2020, 09:21:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 16, 2020, 05:28:15 PM
If it's Virginia that's saying this, surely you can get more than 80,000 signatures on a recall petition.

It's the typical fanatic's belief that his/her views are the majority view, but the majority lacks the guts to speak up.

Of course, the 1.2 million Virginians who voted in the current legislature don't count, compared to the 80k who want the legislature out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 17, 2020, 03:52:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80880198_122204885935732_3472629144993398784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=unepqIdkEb4AX_tCcG9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f99624c7dfd44527b06dc4475c1cb40d&oe=5EA96861)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2020, 07:32:33 AM
Source, bitch!

(Not calling any of your sisters a bitch.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 17, 2020, 07:38:54 AM
Asses aren't as liberal as you'd expect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 17, 2020, 12:24:36 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82326396_2362859693814923_3160593646315634688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=3gNbv92F4qYAX9KyDcf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7776017f8a922b5c89a4449ed4993a7a&oe=5E9EAB13)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81706388_10215667756422963_7011026960981688320_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=qkT_R2WESGMAX_sakAg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a97f6b21a16448821c5fd33cd7f3fa5d&oe=5EA659F6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Wow that green image and that pumpkin really make you think about what is being said.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2020, 12:48:56 PM
Yeah, production values are not up to par.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 17, 2020, 12:51:18 PM
Republicans can't meme.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 17, 2020, 12:56:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Wow that green image and that pumpkin really make you think about what is being said.

pumpkin represents trump, right? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 17, 2020, 12:56:54 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 17, 2020, 12:56:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 17, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
Wow that green image and that pumpkin really make you think about what is being said.

pumpkin represents trump, right? :unsure:

If so it would have worked better with the first one :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 17, 2020, 01:17:29 PM
The Cuomo meme is definitely nonsense.

About one quarter of the work force in New York State is foreign born.  State and local taxes contributions from immigrants were about $16 billion (in 2014) - i.e. about 10 times higher the number in the meme.  None of which would be surprising to anyone who has spent any significant time in the state.

If immigrants were removed from the state overnight, the state economy would collapse.  It's asinine to suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 17, 2020, 01:19:45 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 17, 2020, 01:17:29 PM
The Cuomo meme is definitely nonsense.

About one quarter of the work force in New York State is foreign born.  State and local taxes contributions from immigrants were about $16 billion (in 2014) - i.e. about 10 times higher the number in the meme.  None of which would be surprising to anyone who has spent any significant time in the state.

If immigrants were removed from the state overnight, the state economy would collapse.  It's asinine to suggest otherwise.

Yeah well, most memes are totally fabricated lies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 17, 2020, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 17, 2020, 01:19:45 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 17, 2020, 01:17:29 PM
The Cuomo meme is definitely nonsense.

About one quarter of the work force in New York State is foreign born.  State and local taxes contributions from immigrants were about $16 billion (in 2014) - i.e. about 10 times higher the number in the meme.  None of which would be surprising to anyone who has spent any significant time in the state.

If immigrants were removed from the state overnight, the state economy would collapse.  It's asinine to suggest otherwise.

Yeah well, most memes are totally fabricated lies.

*surprised pikachu face*
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on January 17, 2020, 03:06:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 17, 2020, 03:52:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80880198_122204885935732_3472629144993398784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=unepqIdkEb4AX_tCcG9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f99624c7dfd44527b06dc4475c1cb40d&oe=5EA96861)

Your sisters shared this?   :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 17, 2020, 03:41:18 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on January 17, 2020, 04:17:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 17, 2020, 03:41:18 PM
Yes.

And... :unsure: they are immigrants to the United States, right?  :unsure:

I guess this is a new one on me.  I've never seen the "Immigrants are leeches on our social services," argument from an immigrant before.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 17, 2020, 04:20:44 PM
You see there's the good, legal immigrants, and the bad, illegal immigrants. And of course the non-Christian immigrants, non-White immigrants, etc. which don't contribute to society. Also, the boat is full now and all that.

It's not unusual. Austrian FPÖ was very popular among the Serb immigrant community because of their anti-Muslim immigration stance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on January 17, 2020, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 17, 2020, 04:20:44 PM
You see there's the good, legal immigrants, and the bad, illegal immigrants. And of course the non-Christian immigrants, non-White immigrants, etc. which don't contribute to society. Also, the boat is full now and all that.

It's not unusual. Austrian FPÖ was very popular among the Serb immigrant community because of their anti-Muslim immigration stance.

Okay, I have met immigrants who still had the prejudices of their old country (Serbs who hate Croats, Guatemalans who hate Mexicans and the like); or legal immigrants who resent the "Line jumping" ilegales.  Furthermore Trump did win something like 30% of the Hispanic vote (and he's been holding Hispanic Evangelical Rallies here of late <_<).  Just the blanket term "Immigrant" in the meme threw me for a loop.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on January 17, 2020, 05:05:05 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 17, 2020, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 17, 2020, 04:20:44 PM
You see there's the good, legal immigrants, and the bad, illegal immigrants. And of course the non-Christian immigrants, non-White immigrants, etc. which don't contribute to society. Also, the boat is full now and all that.

It's not unusual. Austrian FPÖ was very popular among the Serb immigrant community because of their anti-Muslim immigration stance.

Okay, I have met immigrants who still had the prejudices of their old country (Serbs who hate Croats, Guatemalans who hate Mexicans and the like); or legal immigrants who resent the "Line jumping" ilegales.  Furthermore Trump did win something like 30% of the Hispanic vote (and he's been holding Hispanic Evangelical Rallies here of late <_<).  Just the blanket term "Immigrant" in the meme threw me for a loop.

I mean, from all indications they *are* demonstrating that immigrants are terrible ...  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 17, 2020, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 17, 2020, 04:17:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 17, 2020, 03:41:18 PM
Yes.

And... :unsure: they are immigrants to the United States, right?  :unsure:

I guess this is a new one on me.  I've never seen the "Immigrants are leeches on our social services," argument from an immigrant before.



It's pretty common in the UK.
I recall around the brexit vote some interviews on TV with polish people even saying they supported it. They were already here afterall. Best pull up the draw bridge :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 18, 2020, 03:24:50 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81795654_2720765857981973_1969191446644785152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=7N5WT2deyGsAX8f2PEs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=710d306642936f4ce39d5c9f90814a31&oe=5E984AA9)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15965527_10158217204025515_5203052268358732343_n.png?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=UQEKY2U-N14AX8D1Gwv&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=de1235ec2d000d735f43783f92bb2bff&oe=5ED891D0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 18, 2020, 03:27:54 PM
Is that an actual King quote? :yeahright:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 18, 2020, 03:33:44 PM
Yeah, Elvis actually said that.



:)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 18, 2020, 04:10:13 PM
Quote from: dps on January 18, 2020, 03:33:44 PM
Yeah, Elvis actually said that.



:)

:elvis:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2020, 04:30:18 PM
I would think even alt-right retards would be embarrassed by the slapping one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 18, 2020, 04:53:49 PM
That requires them to stop and think about what they're posting for a couple seconds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2020, 08:29:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2020, 04:30:18 PM
I would think even alt-right retards would be embarrassed by the slapping one.

You over-estimate the ability of alt-right retards to feel shame. 

I'm a bit surprised Syt doesn't feel ashamed enough of the shared genetics to stop sharing his sisters' posts.  Bully for him.  We kinda need to know this stuff, and I wouldn't find out about it any other way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 18, 2020, 08:50:36 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2020, 08:29:34 PM
We kinda need to know this stuff,

Nah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2020, 02:14:22 AM
I am skipping all the insipid posts of "If you remember
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 19, 2020, 02:28:57 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 18, 2020, 03:24:50 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81795654_2720765857981973_1969191446644785152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=7N5WT2deyGsAX8f2PEs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=710d306642936f4ce39d5c9f90814a31&oe=5E984AA9)


I'm fairly certain that a man so crippled by bone deformities that he could not serve the country he loves would be unable to stand up in a fight against anyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2020, 11:41:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/60707884_1305392882950381_6571388636774793216_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=M69NO_EC4BEAX9P8Kf5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&_nc_tp=1002&oh=2514695c9cf9a8e665c4210332ef4176&oe=5EA09EDD)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 19, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
They are indeed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 19, 2020, 11:43:28 AM
So all problems have been solved? Ok then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on January 19, 2020, 11:51:42 AM
Are you tired of winning yet?  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2020, 11:56:59 AM
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/01/10/ny-law-will-automatically-register-illegal-aliens-to-vote-n2559325?fbclid=IwAR3HS_dPDtLSKiqDcZILc_WHRDs94maL6dix-I2_6GoMK9ZWvqVn91Ef3R8

QuoteNY Law Automatically Registers Illegal Aliens to Vote

Democrats in New York didn't wait very long before executing the third and final step in their scheme to register illegal alien voters. New York Senate Democrats just passed a bill on Thursday that automatically registers people to vote who submit applications to the Department of Motor Vehicles or the Department of Health. New York's Green Light Law was passed by the state legislature back in December and gives illegal aliens the ability to obtain driver's licenses. 

When New York passed the Green Light Law, Cortney interviewed Republican Rensselaer County Clerk Frank Merola, who told Townhall that he suspected the bill giving driver's licenses to illegal aliens was really part of a larger effort by New York Democrats to hand the vote over to illegal aliens.

"I never thought it was about driving," Merola said at the time. "I think it's more about voting than it is about driving."

"There's no right to driving," Merola continued. "It's all a privilege. To give the privilege to someone who's already breaking the law doesn't make any sense."

But it begins to make perfect sense when you consider the totality of the Democrats' efforts. First, attract illegal aliens to the state with sanctuary policies and generous taxpayer-funded benefits, give them government IDs, and then register them to vote. In New York, once an individual is registered to vote, they do not need to show an ID before casting a ballot.

The first day New York's Green Light Law took effect, illegal aliens lined up around the block at DMV offices across the state.

When illegal aliens line up around the voting booths this November, Democrats like Stacey Abrams will say it's because of voter suppression efforts from Republicans and demand we do away with voter registration altogether. Democrats like to pretend that Russian bots are the ones somehow undermining our elections when it's really illegal aliens the Democrats plan on using to steal future elections -- elections that should be decided only by U.S. citizens.



About the source: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/townhall/

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 19, 2020, 11:58:55 AM
That is quite a stretch. Paranoia abounds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2020, 12:04:49 PM
AFAICT New York's Motor Voter is the same, as it relates to citizenship, as any state without motor voter.  In both cases you're attesting and affirming you're a citizen and that you're aware there are penalties for lying. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 19, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2020, 08:29:34 PM
....

I'm a bit surprised Syt doesn't feel ashamed enough of the shared genetics to stop sharing his sisters' posts.  Bully for him.  We kinda need to know this stuff, and I wouldn't find out about it any other way.

Indeed, that's exactly what I use this thread for.

Many thanks Syt. :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82159230_10216192179861593_568128756267352064_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=aXY_EG7QFmoAX8yCG_Q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=637f7708317a6bfb47d5de291abc4182&oe=5E9757B6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 19, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
They are as stupid as they are broken.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 19, 2020, 04:35:30 PM
And how do you think you get those things Karen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 19, 2020, 07:31:38 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71887199_2351715188476533_7695542867044859904_o.png?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=FV-cld_u1xIAX98K9O8&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=f9ddd235c594ecaa392d770db7310d85&oe=5ED8A2CA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on January 19, 2020, 08:36:03 PM
Yea, that's true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 20, 2020, 03:06:25 AM
:unsure: How do you keep your shoes and pants clean with this method?  Or how do you walk out after you're done, for that matter?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2020, 01:52:54 PM
Post shared by sister:

Quote{name redacted}
January 19 at 11:14 AM
The Boston Red Sox manager, who refused President Trump's White House invitation after winning the World Series in 2018, has been caught in a cheating scandal and now faces a lifetime ban from baseball.

Lmfao....

The loudest critics of Trump always have the most to hide.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on January 21, 2020, 03:01:33 PM
I knew Alex Cora was fired, but I'm pretty sure that he's not facing any lifetime ban.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 21, 2020, 04:01:57 PM
He is facing very stern discipline but the connection between that and Donald Trump is so tortured and obscure one really has to be desperate to raise it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 21, 2020, 04:05:37 PM
If I was defending Trump I would avoid bring up issues of marital fidelity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 21, 2020, 05:04:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 21, 2020, 04:05:37 PM
If I was defending Trump I would avoid bring up issues of marital fidelity.

It's sign-stealing, not marital infidelity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 21, 2020, 05:05:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 21, 2020, 01:52:54 PM
Post shared by sister:

Quote{name redacted}
January 19 at 11:14 AM
The Boston Red Sox manager, who refused President Trump's White House invitation after winning the World Series in 2018, has been caught in a cheating scandal and now faces a lifetime ban from baseball.

Lmfao....

The loudest critics of Trump always have the most to hide.

I guess your sister just, what, ignores the guys within Trump's own orbit that have been convicted?

Who am I kidding; I already know the answer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 23, 2020, 01:27:21 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hYBW04K/nyc.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 23, 2020, 01:38:26 PM
"Brooklyn leader"? Is that an office?

Oh and Cuomo is not mayor of New York City.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 23, 2020, 02:02:14 PM
No, but the governor could still be said to be in charge there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 23, 2020, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 23, 2020, 02:02:14 PM
No, but the governor could still be said to be in charge there.

Sure. But you could say the same for Utica and it isn't overpriced.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 23, 2020, 03:05:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 23, 2020, 01:27:21 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hYBW04K/nyc.jpg)

Had a long uber ride the day after this happened and the radio shows wouldn't shut up about it.  It was also covered in all the NY papers and the Wash Post. Quite a lot of coverage for a borough official.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 23, 2020, 03:07:36 PM
They talked about it, but did they say anything?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 23, 2020, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 23, 2020, 01:38:26 PM
"Brooklyn leader"? Is that an office?

yes each borough has their own executive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 23, 2020, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 23, 2020, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 23, 2020, 01:38:26 PM
"Brooklyn leader"? Is that an office?

yes each borough has their own executive.

Ok so this guy is the mayor of Brooklyn? He said he wants all white people out? Context? Did he make a list about how many white grandparents you need to be officially classified as white?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 23, 2020, 03:14:36 PM
Are the Irish considered white in this context?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 23, 2020, 03:20:12 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 23, 2020, 03:05:11 PM
Had a long uber ride the day after this happened and the radio shows wouldn't shut up about it.  It was also covered in all the NY papers and the Wash Post. Quite a lot of coverage for a borough official.

Well, that's liberal media, no wonder my sister/that website haven't heard about it. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on January 23, 2020, 03:36:08 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 23, 2020, 01:27:21 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hYBW04K/nyc.jpg)

Predictably enough, a distortion: this person made an inflammatory speech about gentrification, which was widely reported in the press. He did not say that Whites should move out, he said that gentrifying people moving in to NY from places like Iowa and Ohio should go back where the came from, which sounded very much like race-bating (as these states are majority White).   

https://nypost.com/2020/01/21/brooklyn-prez-adams-panned-for-telling-new-nyc-arrivals-go-back-to-iowa/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2020, 03:39:45 PM
Don't look at me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 23, 2020, 03:44:33 PM
Well that is like Texans or Arizonans grumbling people moving to our states should move back to California...granted elected officials don't normally say that :lol:

So unsurprisingly that post by Syt's family is full of shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 23, 2020, 03:48:57 PM
Correct the statement was about gentrification and while there is a racial component to that issue, it's interesting that "lawenforcement(Not Russia)today.com" should phrase it as telling "white people" to go back as opposed to new arrivals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 23, 2020, 04:03:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 23, 2020, 03:44:33 PM
Well that is like Texans or Arizonans grumbling people moving to our states should move back to California...granted elected officials don't normally say that :lol:

So unsurprisingly that post by Syt's family is full of shit.

Hey, my two eldest sisters recently moved from Florida to Missouri and Arizona! :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2020, 04:14:33 PM
Any way you want to cut it, it's still a douchebag thing to say.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 23, 2020, 04:26:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2020, 04:14:33 PM
Any way you want to cut it, it's still a douchebag thing to say.

Definitely. Very crass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on January 23, 2020, 04:41:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2020, 04:14:33 PM
Any way you want to cut it, it's still a douchebag thing to say.

Absolutely.

He was widely slammed in the media for being a douchebag, for saying that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 24, 2020, 12:58:31 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83931068_1522507211259437_1372440233747939328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ohc=8dtGEaDJMYMAX99BIvV&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2a9cf7d25dad2acf0fc7e80c065603ac&oe=5ECF8EE2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 24, 2020, 04:05:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2020, 12:58:31 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83931068_1522507211259437_1372440233747939328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ohc=8dtGEaDJMYMAX99BIvV&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2a9cf7d25dad2acf0fc7e80c065603ac&oe=5ECF8EE2)

Killing Jeremy Corbyn in an airstrike probably has some sort of downside that I'm not seeing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 24, 2020, 04:14:57 PM
Yeah for funeral bombing!  American as apple pie!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 27, 2020, 06:08:40 AM
Turns out what my family shares is reasonably well measured compared to the images posted to the "CursedBoomerImages" twitter account:

https://twitter.com/WeWuzBoomers

:blink: :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 27, 2020, 11:50:28 AM
QuoteTIM ALLEN - ON TRUMP ...makes a good point

Whatever your feelings for Trump, these are some interesting points that Tim Allen makes. Put your hatred aside and think about these observations.
Tim Allen is credited with writing this.

From :Tim Allen
Here are some interesting points to think about prior to 2020, especially to my friends on the fence, like moderate Democrats, Libertarians and Independents and the never Trump Republicans and those thinking of "walking away" from the Democratic party.

Women are upset at Trump's naughty words -- they also bought 80 million copies of 50 Shades of Gray.

Not one feminist has defended Sarah Sanders. It seems women's rights only matter if those women are liberal.

No Border Walls. No voter ID laws. Did you figure it out yet? But wait... there's more.

Chelsea Clinton got out of college and got a job at NBC that paid $900,000 per year. Her mom flies around the country speaking out about white privilege.

And just like that, they went from being against foreign interference in our elections to allowing non-citizens to vote in our elections.

President Trump's wall costs less than the Obamacare website. Let that sink in, America.

We are one election away from open borders, socialism, gun confiscation, and full-term abortion nationally. We are fighting evil.

They sent more troops and armament to arrest Roger Stone than they sent to defend Benghazi.

60 years ago, Venezuela was 4th on the world economic freedom index. Today, they are 179th and their citizens are dying of starvation. In only 10 years, Venezuela was destroyed by democratic socialism.

Russia donated $0.00 to the Trump campaign. Russia donated $145,600,000 to the Clinton Foundation. But Trump was the one investigated!

Nancy Pelosi invited illegal aliens to the State of the Union. President Trump Invited victims of illegal aliens to the State of the Union. Let that sink in.

A socialist is basically a communist who doesn't have the power to take everything from their citizens at gunpoint ... Yet!

How do you walk 3000 miles across Mexico without food or support and show up at our border 100 pounds overweight and with a cellphone?

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez wants to ban cars, ban planes, give out universal income and thinks socialism works. She calls Donald Trump crazy.

Bill Clinton paid $850,000 to Paula Jones To get her to go away. I don't remember the FBI raiding his lawyer's office.

I wake up every day and I am grateful that Hillary Clinton is not the president of the United States of America.

The same media that told me Hillary Clinton had a 95% chance of winning now tells me Trump's approval ratings are low.

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money."— Margaret Thatcher

Maxine Waters opposes voter ID laws; She thinks that they are racist. You need to have a photo ID to attend her town hall meetings.

President Trump said — "They're not after me. They're after you. I'm just in their way."
Read that again.

Pass along these truths!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 27, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
I don't understand how any of those are interesting points. "read these vapid propaganda talking points"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 27, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
Good points well made.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on January 27, 2020, 11:59:38 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
I don't understand how any of those are interesting points. "read these vapid propaganda talking points"

Nor do they sound like they were written by the comedian Tim Allen: which they weren't. (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tim-allen-liberals-facebook/)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 27, 2020, 12:00:18 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 27, 2020, 11:50:28 AM
TIM ALLEN - ON TRUMP ...makes a good point

Whatever your feelings for Trump, these are some interesting points that Tim Allen makes. Put your hatred aside and think about these observations.
Tim Allen is credited with writing this.

Tim Allen (or at least the famous Tim Allen) did not write these:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tim-allen-liberals-facebook/


ninja'd by Sav! :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on January 27, 2020, 12:02:06 PM

"They sent more troops and armament to arrest Roger Stone than they sent to defend Benghazi."

Wasn't he arrested by Trump's FBI?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 27, 2020, 12:02:06 PM

"They sent more troops and armament to arrest Roger Stone than they sent to defend Benghazi."

Wasn't he arrested by Trump's FBI?

Deep state is part of "they."  Duh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 27, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 27, 2020, 11:59:38 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
I don't understand how any of those are interesting points. "read these vapid propaganda talking points"

Nor do they sound like they were written by the comedian Tim Allen: which they weren't. (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tim-allen-liberals-facebook/)

:o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 27, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Wow. Googled this brooklyn thing and there's so much far right bollocks screaming to read between the lines :bleeding:
It's interesting in a way how incapable they are of empathy. They can only see another hate team.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 27, 2020, 12:49:21 PM
It's a war on their way of life to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2020, 01:04:40 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 27, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Wow. Googled this brooklyn thing and there's so much far right bollocks screaming to read between the lines :bleeding:
It's interesting in a way how incapable they are of empathy. They can only see another hate team.

How much empathy did the borough president demonstrate?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 27, 2020, 01:38:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 23, 2020, 03:48:57 PM
Correct the statement was about gentrification and while there is a racial component to that issue, it's interesting that "lawenforcement(Not Russia)today.com" should phrase it as telling "white people" to go back as opposed to new arrivals.

I mean, there is totally a racial component to the issue of gentrification but then a lot of that has to do with the extent which economic and racial lines parallel one another.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on January 27, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 27, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on January 27, 2020, 11:59:38 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
I don't understand how any of those are interesting points. "read these vapid propaganda talking points"

Nor do they sound like they were written by the comedian Tim Allen: which they weren't. (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tim-allen-liberals-facebook/)

:o

Heh, while reading the Snopes article it occurred to me that if the list had been attributed to Ted Nugent I would have believed it.  (Despite only one mention of gun confiscation, and nothing about flaming arrows.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on January 28, 2020, 06:58:56 AM
(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83254483_10101660476429452_2211462825165979648_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQll9QMuhIw3D8GI37GCFL9IUKf3m3jzNB6KdJYov0gQjxF26l7o0-wd9YtAEeVxJC8&_nc_ht=scontent-mad1-1.xx&oh=55cfc06b65dff383f412ec7cc9783611&oe=5EC63C4A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 28, 2020, 07:48:35 AM
what?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 28, 2020, 08:03:06 AM
Both names in that are unfamiliar to me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 28, 2020, 08:07:44 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 28, 2020, 08:03:06 AM
Both names in that are unfamiliar to me.

Joe Rogan is the radio talk guy that recently endorsed Bernie.  There was a long rambling discussion about him in the election thread.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 28, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
I mean somebody has to make these things accessible to the other barbarian khans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 02, 2020, 05:01:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/82063730_3118326771515649_6849076496007430144_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=uc_q7YTtxGwAX8gPGq9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a17220db805e2989ecdac1cbeb8e997d&oe=5EDAE0D4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 02, 2020, 11:13:55 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 28, 2020, 08:07:44 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 28, 2020, 08:03:06 AM
Both names in that are unfamiliar to me.

Joe Rogan is the radio talk guy that recently endorsed Bernie.  There was a long rambling discussion about him in the election thread.



I knew who he is, so who's the other dude?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 02, 2020, 12:53:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 02, 2020, 05:01:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/82063730_3118326771515649_6849076496007430144_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=uc_q7YTtxGwAX8gPGq9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a17220db805e2989ecdac1cbeb8e997d&oe=5EDAE0D4)

They had no choice except to vote like shitheads.  They really didn't want to, but Nancy left them no choice but to vote like a shithead.  So you need to vote for them and reward them for taking the brave choice to vote like a shithead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 02, 2020, 02:57:58 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50574044_2205422163119875_6001932997605982208_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=X_UsVMZ9b5sAX-W4SUq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=60bf561a0ff21f78cf53b686c70f2c40&oe=5ED2CC91)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 02, 2020, 03:16:12 PM
And you never reply?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 02, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 02, 2020, 03:16:12 PM
And you never reply?

I guess there's very little point of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 02, 2020, 03:59:09 PM
I used to but I stopped.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 02, 2020, 06:18:09 PM
I've kinda given up on that as well.  At first I thought people didn't know that facts provided in "Memes" were inaccurate.  I came to the conclusion that they simply don't care.  A comforting lie is worth more than a difficult truth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 02, 2020, 07:40:59 PM
I firmly believe that it's an addiction.  Memes like this, or just outlandish propaganda in general, gives them the high that they are now conditioned to crave.  Addictions bypass rational thinking, so there is really no use arguing.  I wish I had an idea what is of any use.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 02, 2020, 08:11:22 PM
Actual conversation with living human beings tends to help. Unless your only goal is to score points. Then, you might as well post memes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 02, 2020, 08:30:11 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 02, 2020, 08:11:22 PM
Actual conversation with living human beings tends to help. Unless your only goal is to score points. Then, you might as well post memes.
I don't think it does help.  The conversations stops early on in order to ensure that all living human beings remain in that state.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 02, 2020, 08:44:08 PM
I agree it does happen often. Usually because people want to assert, or seek validation, more than they want to discuss. Establishing the conditions of a genuine conversation is hard, and that is usually not the type of thing you can do (or want to do) at the Thanksgiving dinner, or during the cab ride. One of the difficulties right now is that political assertion is so intimately intertwined with identity, that any form of contradiction is seen as a challenge to one's very core. (Another is that internet "debating" culture, which has now spilled IRL, is aimed at scoring cheap points).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2020, 10:52:19 AM
Quote"I have zero opinion on the entertainment quality of the half time show last night because I was busy slinging beers to customers and didn't see much of it. With that said, the next person that complains about objectifying/sexually exploiting women? Remember this still shot. Women do this to themselves.

These two women could be role models for young ladies but, they chose to send a different message."

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84168582_10218592198293789_8335901432653807616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=0UpTMZQyWwkAX_hujTo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b7ba687f739953c47fd40214f8d8b45e&oe=5EC4FD24)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 10:53:16 AM
Man is there any issue obscure enough that your family doesn't have a hot take for?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2020, 10:54:18 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Lf0Yn24/RM.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 10:59:38 AM
I guess not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
What did Jay Z do wrong? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 11:14:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
What did Jay Z do wrong? :unsure:

I don't know man. I am barely familiar with his music.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 03, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
What did Jay Z do wrong? :unsure:

Notice how Beyonce is "not much better". I guess that translates to her having a slightly brighter skin colour? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 03, 2020, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 03, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
What did Jay Z do wrong? :unsure:

Notice how Beyonce is "not much better". I guess that translates to her having a slightly brighter skin colour? :P

Hi. I'm Al Bedo. Find out how I can work for you too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 11:45:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
What did Jay Z do wrong? :unsure:

Nothing.
But this JayZee character is bad news for some reason.  Trademark poacher if I had to guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 03, 2020, 11:45:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
What did Jay Z do wrong? :unsure:

He's a crack dealer?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 03, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
Well, 25 years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 03, 2020, 12:11:12 PM
Racist conservatives don't forgive anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 12:56:55 PM
#BlackLivesMatter folks need to start thinking about end game.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:09:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 12:56:55 PM
#BlackLivesMatter folks need to start thinking about end game.
Why?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 01:11:12 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:09:27 PM
Why?

To demonstrate a connection between their actions and policy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:15:01 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 01:11:12 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:09:27 PM
Why?

To demonstrate a connection between their actions and policy.
Is no one advocating policy that would address the problem?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 01:16:52 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:15:01 PM
Is no one advocating policy that would address the problem?

I would guess there is at least one person out of the billions on earth who is.  Why do you ask?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:22:43 PM
I think Maximus is telling you to caucus for Andrew Yang -_-

:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Because I don't see why one has to "think of the endgame" in order to point out a problem. In particular, for a problem like this where lack of awareness or interest is a major contributing factor, raising the profile is often the best thing a non-expert celebrity can do.

If, in fact, no expert is working on the problem then it may be time for non-experts to step in, but I don't think that is the case here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Because I don't see why one has to "think of the endgame" in order to point out a problem. In particular, for a problem like this where lack of awareness or interest is a major contributing factor, raising the profile is often the best thing a non-expert celebrity can do.

If, in fact, no expert is working on the problem then it may be time for non-experts to step in, but I don't think that is the case here.

The reason is because just protesting forever without any specific demands is eventually just going to desensitize people and not be effective. Nobody outside of the super patriots cared about Jay Z not standing for the anthem (presuming that was actually what happened, it was not like he is kneeling dramatically there. It could be he just did not feel like standing or was distracted and whole thing was not a protest at all. Just a fake news type deal.), and frankly I think they are being just a little performative and disingenuous about it. This was used to attack Obama more than anything else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:41:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:33:35 PM
[link=topic=13582.msg1219076#msg1219076 date=1580754
The reason is because just protesting forever without any specific demands is eventually just going to desensitize people and not be effective. Nobody outside of the super patriots cared about Jay Z not standing for the anthem (presuming that was actually what happened, it was not like he is kneeling dramatically there. It could be he just did not feel like standing or was distracted and whole thing was not a protest at all. Just a fake news type deal.), and frankly I think they are being just a little performative and disingenuous about it. This was used to attack Obama more than anything else.
On the other hand, having to put out a manifesto every time you protest is exhausting and has a stifling effect.

Not sure what you mean about Obama.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 03, 2020, 01:44:12 PM
Bringing a solution along with a problem is a bonus, but shouldn't be a requirement.  Coming up with a solution may not require the same skillset and context that it took to identify the problem, so requiring people to have both is not a smart strategy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:44:22 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:41:05 PM
On the other hand, having to put out a manifesto every time you protest is exhausting and has a stifling effect.

Well I couldn't disagree more. I think it has an energizing effect, let's people know what you are fighting for. Vagueness is what has a stifling effect.

QuoteNot sure what you mean about Obama.

The thing that Syt posted used Jay Z sitting to attack Michelle Obama.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:47:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 03, 2020, 01:44:12 PM
Bringing a solution along with a problem is a bonus, but shouldn't be a requirement.  Coming up with a solution may not require the same skillset and context that it took to identify the problem, so requiring people to have both is not a smart strategy.

Ok but the problem was identified decades ago. Surely somebody with the skillset exists?

But anyway I have no problem with them protesting and I get it, it is something worth protesting. I just think that Yi might not be incorrect that a pivot to a policy based protest might be a good idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:55:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:44:22 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:41:05 PM
On the other hand, having to put out a manifesto every time you protest is exhausting and has a stifling effect.

Well I couldn't disagree more. I think it has an energizing effect, let's people know what you are fighting for. Vagueness is what has a stifling effect.

I think if there's anyone who doesn't know what BLM is fighting for, that's intentional.
Quote
QuoteNot sure what you mean about Obama.

The thing that Syt posted used Jay Z sitting to attack Michelle Obama.
Ah, ok. Thought you meant BLM was attacking the Obamas. It's pretty much a given anyone attacking BLM for existing is being disingenuous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:58:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:47:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 03, 2020, 01:44:12 PM
Bringing a solution along with a problem is a bonus, but shouldn't be a requirement.  Coming up with a solution may not require the same skillset and context that it took to identify the problem, so requiring people to have both is not a smart strategy.

Ok but the problem was identified decades ago. Surely somebody with the skillset exists?
We don't lack solutions. We lack the will to enact them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 03, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Because I don't see why one has to "think of the endgame" in order to point out a problem. In particular, for a problem like this where lack of awareness or interest is a major contributing factor, raising the profile is often the best thing a non-expert celebrity can do.

If, in fact, no expert is working on the problem then it may be time for non-experts to step in, but I don't think that is the case here.

Donald Trump got elected president, and he was a non expert celebrity, and also an incompetent moron.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 03, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Because I don't see why one has to "think of the endgame" in order to point out a problem. In particular, for a problem like this where lack of awareness or interest is a major contributing factor, raising the profile is often the best thing a non-expert celebrity can do.

If, in fact, no expert is working on the problem then it may be time for non-experts to step in, but I don't think that is the case here.

Donald Trump got elected president, and he was a non expert celebrity, and also an incompetent moron.
Exactly. How much better would it have been if he had stuck to tweeting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Because I don't see why one has to "think of the endgame" in order to point out a problem. In particular, for a problem like this where lack of awareness or interest is a major contributing factor, raising the profile is often the best thing a non-expert celebrity can do.

If, in fact, no expert is working on the problem then it may be time for non-experts to step in, but I don't think that is the case here.

Here's the thing, I don't know what problem they're pointing out any more.  Back when there was a string of about 10 shootings of blacks by cops I knew exactly what the problem was.  But how long has it been now since one made the new cycle? 

And though I agree that a group does not need a glossy power point presentation with footnotes and appendices to justify their protest, they do need communication of what it is that is making them unhappy, and conversely, what would make them happy.  MLK: we can vote, run for office, not get lynched, we're happy.  Gays: we can marry, serve in the military, we're happy.  What would make BLM happy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
And though I agree that a group does not need a glossy power point presentation with footnotes and appendices to justify their protest, they do need communication of what it is that is making them unhappy, and conversely, what would make them happy.  MLK: we can vote, run for office, not get lynched, we're happy.  Gays: we can marry, serve in the military, we're happy.  What would make BLM happy?

Yeah you at least need a slogan or something about what you want. Something people can get behind, not necessarily a wonkish list of policy proposals.

Again they can go ahead and keep standing up (or sitting down, or kneeling, or whatever) for the injustice in our society, and more power to them. I just think they need a bit more to get more traction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Because I don't see why one has to "think of the endgame" in order to point out a problem. In particular, for a problem like this where lack of awareness or interest is a major contributing factor, raising the profile is often the best thing a non-expert celebrity can do.

If, in fact, no expert is working on the problem then it may be time for non-experts to step in, but I don't think that is the case here.

Here's the thing, I don't know what problem they're pointing out any more.  Back when there was a string of about 10 shootings of blacks by cops I knew exactly what the problem was.  But how long has it been now since one made the new cycle? 

Ah, I think I see the issue. The news media stops focusing on the problem and we assume it has solved itself.

And then some people keep talking about the same issue and we think they're talking about something new.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:26:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
And though I agree that a group does not need a glossy power point presentation with footnotes and appendices to justify their protest, they do need communication of what it is that is making them unhappy, and conversely, what would make them happy.  MLK: we can vote, run for office, not get lynched, we're happy.  Gays: we can marry, serve in the military, we're happy.  What would make BLM happy?

Yeah you at least need a slogan or something about what you want. Something people can get behind, not necessarily a wonkish list of policy proposals.
What is "black lives matter" if not a slogan?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
Ah, I think I see the issue. The news media stops focusing on the problem and we assume it has solved itself.

And then some people keep talking about the same issue and we think they're talking about something new.

"Stops focusing on the problem" is a nice euphemism.  I was talking about discrete, concrete cases of actual humans being killed.  Either that has continued, abated, increased, or stopped.  Either that was and still is "the problem" or something else was and still is the problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:37:02 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:26:32 PM
What is "black lives matter" if not a slogan?

It is a very effective one. I mean the first step is always drawing attention to the problem but it is only the first step.

And eventually people will stop listening, as Yi said the problem has kind of disappeared from the media lately.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:40:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
Ah, I think I see the issue. The news media stops focusing on the problem and we assume it has solved itself.

And then some people keep talking about the same issue and we think they're talking about something new.

"Stops focusing on the problem" is a nice euphemism.  I was talking about discrete, concrete cases of actual humans being killed.  Either that has continued, abated, increased, or stopped.  Either that was and still is "the problem" or something else was and still is the problem.
Have you reason to believe that's not still the problem?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:44:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:37:02 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:26:32 PM
What is "black lives matter" if not a slogan?

It is a very effective one. I mean the first step is always drawing attention to the problem but it is only the first step.

And eventually people will stop listening, as Yi said the problem has kind of disappeared from the media lately.
I guess "I can't breathe" and "don't shoot" aren't catchy enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:40:53 PM
Have you reason to believe that's not still the problem?

I already answered this.  No black cop killings for a good long time.

Do you have reason to believe this is still the problem?  Do you, for example, have reason to believe that blacks continue to be gunned down and the media is not reporting it because of indifference?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:44:04 PM
I guess "I can't breathe" and "don't shoot" aren't catchy enough.

Are you fucking with me now? Because this is kind of a bullshit response.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2020, 02:49:32 PM
Wtf? No blacks killed by cops for a long time?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:40:53 PM
Have you reason to believe that's not still the problem?

I already answered this.  No black cop killings for a good long time.
You have evidence for this belief?
Quote
Do you have reason to believe this is still the problem?  Do you, for example, have reason to believe that blacks continue to be gunned down and the media is not reporting it because of indifference?
You mean besides the fact that it's been happening for decades and I've heard nothing to indicate that it has changed?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:44:04 PM
I guess "I can't breathe" and "don't shoot" aren't catchy enough.

Are you fucking with me now? Because this is kind of a bullshit response.
Elaborate, please

Edit: no I'm not fucking with you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2020, 02:49:32 PM
Wtf? No blacks killed by cops for a long time?

No is a very low number.  What I mean is no shooting that fits the BLM framework has crossed my radar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2020, 02:49:32 PM
Wtf? No blacks killed by cops for a long time?

No is a very low number.  What I mean is no shooting that fits the BLM framework has crossed my radar.
I submit that that may be an issue with the radar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:51:35 PM
Elaborate, please

Edit: no I'm not fucking with you.

It just doesn't seem like you are actually responding to what I am saying in my posts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
I submit that that may be an issue with the radar.

My radar, the media's radar.  How's your radar?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 02:58:18 PM
I'm reminded of the debate between Malcolm X and James Farmer.  Malcolm X was talking about the various grievances that blacks had suffered and Farmer responded "We know the disease, physician, what is your cure?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 03, 2020, 02:59:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:37:02 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:26:32 PM
What is "black lives matter" if not a slogan?

It is a very effective one. I mean the first step is always drawing attention to the problem but it is only the first step.

And eventually people will stop listening, as Yi said the problem has kind of disappeared from the media lately.

I think the reason has more to do with Trump taking up all the space in which important matters used to be discussed and brought to the attention of the public.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 03:01:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
I submit that that may be an issue with the radar.

My radar, the media's radar.  How's your radar?
I'm not the one making demands.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 03:04:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 03, 2020, 02:51:35 PM
Elaborate, please

Edit: no I'm not fucking with you.

It just doesn't seem like you are actually responding to what I am saying in my posts.
You're right. I don't really have the proper words for requiring catchy slogans for objecting to bring killed. I know you mean well, but christ.

I'm out for today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 03, 2020, 03:07:14 PM
lolwut
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 03:32:25 PM
QuoteIn 2015, police shot and killed 94 unarmed individuals, a number that fell to 51 in 2016 before rising to 68 in 2017. This year, police have shot and killed 18 unarmed people, eight fewer than at the same time last year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-people-have-significantly-declined-experts-say/2018/05/03/d5eab374-4349-11e8-8569-26fda6b404c7_story.html

It's a WashPost article, so don't burn your freebies if you don't want to.

Article from May 2018.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 03:42:29 PM
According to the Washington Post database on police shootings, updated as of 1-22-2020, Black fatalities from police shootings were 223 in 2017, 228 in 2018, and 225 in 2019.  Total fatal shootings were roughly the same each year.  Based on that data there seems to be no change in outcomes over the last 3 years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 03, 2020, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 03:42:29 PM
According to the Washington Post database on police shootings, updated as of 1-22-2020, Black fatalities from police shootings were 223 in 2017, 228 in 2018, and 225 in 2019.  Total fatal shootings were roughly the same each year.  Based on that data there seems to be no change in outcomes over the last 3 years.

Trumpster's response, 'out of sight, out of mind'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 04:41:19 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 03:42:29 PM
According to the Washington Post database on police shootings, updated as of 1-22-2020, Black fatalities from police shootings were 223 in 2017, 228 in 2018, and 225 in 2019.  Total fatal shootings were roughly the same each year.  Based on that data there seems to be no change in outcomes over the last 3 years.

I saw that as well.  Unfortunately the Post database doesn't break down justified and unjustified killings.  Imagine the poor research assistant that has to make that call.

If BLM wants no more blacks killed in liquor store shootouts or armed carjackings I'm going to have to part ways.  If they want to stop cops from shooting at unarmed autistic black guys sitting on the pavement with their hands in the air I'm totally with them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 05:31:59 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 04:41:19 PMIf BLM wants no more blacks killed in liquor store shootouts or armed carjackings I'm going to have to part ways.

Why?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 03, 2020, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 05:31:59 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 04:41:19 PMIf BLM wants no more blacks killed in liquor store shootouts or armed carjackings I'm going to have to part ways.

Why?

Perhaps money and cars are more valuable in his view?  Hard to explain why wanting no more people killed is controversial.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 05:45:50 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 05:31:59 PM
Why?

Because I don't want to live in a Hobbesian state of nature.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 05:48:08 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 05:31:59 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 04:41:19 PMIf BLM wants no more blacks killed in liquor store shootouts or armed carjackings I'm going to have to part ways.

Why?

What Yi is getting at is that police use of force is either justified or it is not justified.

Certainly, we would like to reduce the number of justified use of force incidents.  But that's a rather tricky situation, difficult to accomplish, as police have a variety of duties including to protect bystanders and themselves.

On the other hand, reducing the number of unjustified use of force incidents is somewhat simpler - better police training, and prosecutions in more extreme situations.

BUt what we can't do is just conflate the two.  Different problems, different solutions.  And, as Yi says, if BLM does say that there shouldn't be any police use of force (or use of lethal force), the "I'm going to have to part ways".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 05:51:32 PM
I wasn't aware these were the only two choices. I'd rather have my police forces avoid escalating any conflict over property into deadly shootouts in the first place. 

Part of what BLM argues is against the militarization of police forces, claiming, not without reason, that such militarization affects black people disproportionately. I am not aware that they argue for the elimination of police. That's a different kind of utopia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 03, 2020, 05:54:38 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 05:51:32 PM
I wasn't aware these were the only two choices. I'd rather have my police forces avoid escalating any conflict over property into deadly shootouts in the first place. 

Agreed, but it's not always the cops who escalate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 05:55:57 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 05:51:32 PM
I wasn't aware these were the only two choices. I'd rather have my police forces avoid escalating any conflict over property into deadly shootouts in the first place. 

The reason for the police interaction has a lot to do with whether the use of force is justified or not.  I don't know of any use of force guidelines that would allow the use of deadly force over mere possession of illicit property.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 06:01:09 PM
I have witnessed first hand cops drawing out guns against fleeing teenagers. Over a stolen Vespa.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 06:07:17 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 06:01:09 PM
I have witnessed first hand cops drawing out guns against fleeing teenagers. Over a stolen Vespa.

Drawing guns is different than firing guns.  Were they pointing at the suspect, or at low ready (pointing angled downward)?

It can be useful to draw your gun if you think there's a possibility you might need it, even though you have no intention of using it at that time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 03, 2020, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 06:01:09 PM
I have witnessed first hand cops drawing out guns against fleeing teenagers. Over a stolen Vespa.

Were the fleeing teenagers black?  'Cause if they weren't, apparently their lives don't matter.

On a serious note, there are two different but overlapping problems here--excessive use of force/unjustified shootings by police, and racism.  There is certainly some overlap, but they aren't identical, and the potential solutions aren't necessarily identical, either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 06:27:10 PM
Quote from: dps on February 03, 2020, 06:18:43 PM
Were the fleeing teenagers black? 

Yup.

QuoteCause if they weren't, apparently their lives don't matter.

:rolleyes:

QuoteOn a serious note, there are two different but overlapping problems here--excessive use of force/unjustified shootings by police, and racism.  There is certainly some overlap, but they aren't identical, and the potential solutions aren't necessarily identical, either.

No, they are not the same. But there's an awful lot of overlap.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 03, 2020, 06:29:19 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 06:07:17 PMDrawing guns is different than firing guns.  Were they pointing at the suspect, or at low ready (pointing angled downward)?

Sorry, I was too busy getting the fuck out for a thorough measurement of the appropriate angle.

I am sure the police have all sorts of "good reasons" to draw their guns out. I tend to disagree that most are, indeed, good reasons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 07:23:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 04:41:19 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 03:42:29 PM
According to the Washington Post database on police shootings, updated as of 1-22-2020, Black fatalities from police shootings were 223 in 2017, 228 in 2018, and 225 in 2019.  Total fatal shootings were roughly the same each year.  Based on that data there seems to be no change in outcomes over the last 3 years.

I saw that as well.  Unfortunately the Post database doesn't break down justified and unjustified killings.

Correct, however, unless there is some reason to believe that a reduction in unjustified killings has been exactly paralleled with an increase in justified killings, the numbers strongly imply no material change.  The sample size should be large enough to drown out idiosyncratic effects.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 03, 2020, 07:48:25 PM
I checked that same database earlier today.  IIRC, the number of shootings of unarmed people did drop by half over the five years.  Given that the number of shootings of unarmed people was low to begin with as a percentage, any movement in that number would be drowned out when you look at the total number of police shootings.  I agree that the total number of shootings may justify a separate conversation, such as how often indisputably bad guys really needed to be shot, but it shouldn't be conflated with the conversation about unarmed civilians getting shot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 09:27:02 PM
Hmm so BLM has had some effect?  Less shootings of people without guns, more shootings of people with guns?

No wonder there are so many white guys with guns against BLM.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 03, 2020, 09:36:10 PM
It could also be that dead guys are getting better at arming themselves after the fact.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2020, 11:43:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 07:23:53 PM
Correct, however, unless there is some reason to believe that a reduction in unjustified killings has been exactly paralleled with an increase in justified killings, the numbers strongly imply no material change.  The sample size should be large enough to drown out idiosyncratic effects.

I think exactly the opposite, that the number of unjustifieds is so small that it gets drowned out by the variation in the overall number.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 04, 2020, 02:19:33 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 03, 2020, 09:36:10 PM
It could also be that dead guys are getting better at arming themselves after the fact.

:lol: :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2020, 01:31:44 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81714430_432792800941549_1157744525246988288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=d0Pu47M0oJ0AX8MMR_M&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=31fb4f747aa4dc1aec4a2607fd0f1ac4&oe=5EBE50A0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2020, 01:39:35 AM
Well I mean that is pretty standard party-razzing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2020, 09:05:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16463166_313661712365377_2344842600206486507_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=vw8u5JxN5Z8AX_XIFz0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ce59fcf470be85b6c95c0f51e336e81e&oe=5EC18437)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 06, 2020, 11:14:48 AM
Don't believe it, never heard of someone being shot over patent infringement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2020, 11:25:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/12657270_1082281915128189_717188700129357134_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=mxBkEI6-hN0AX-ETOt7&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a2fbc969f3432aef916e199bc0fe312a&oe=5EDBE7F1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 06, 2020, 11:26:41 AM
Syt - re the Dr. Phil - why would your sisters be sharing a pro-impeachment meme? Seems unlike them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2020, 11:35:27 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 06, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
For the first time, I think the subject in the photo (Dr. Phil) seems to have actually said those words.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on February 06, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
All you gotta do is see the pics of the house he is selling, and you can dismiss everything Dr Phil says...if you didn't already.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 06, 2020, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 06, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
All you gotta do is see the pics of the house he is selling, and you can dismiss everything Dr Phil says...if you didn't already.  :P

I believe that was his son's house.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 06, 2020, 05:20:40 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83788970_10158297151532792_1357764120044109824_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQl4-hjgOg2y7k1bpSheItW1ijleBmZKgUIKXblSn9MS6cgHoL9c4O2ZXfiUdBjSl4M&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=1032e2623f2ed993e467cae485a2f4b3&oe=5EC0917F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 15, 2020, 08:47:53 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50816671_2431500850212483_4301114326208479232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=XCWhtrk_NnQAX_n8sxv&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5cad7b4f184791674e35488241592cb1&oe=5EBD1BB7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on February 15, 2020, 02:28:39 PM
Shouldn't they be the only ones to get armed protection since they are arguing that the general public should have restrictions on weapons?  The pro-gun politicians can use their concealed carry rights.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 15, 2020, 03:56:40 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 15, 2020, 08:47:53 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50816671_2431500850212483_4301114326208479232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=XCWhtrk_NnQAX_n8sxv&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5cad7b4f184791674e35488241592cb1&oe=5EBD1BB7)

Which gun control policies actually disarm anybody? Most of them just want to have gun registries and so forth. I bet those professionals would be fine with that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 15, 2020, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 06, 2020, 05:20:40 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83788970_10158297151532792_1357764120044109824_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQl4-hjgOg2y7k1bpSheItW1ijleBmZKgUIKXblSn9MS6cgHoL9c4O2ZXfiUdBjSl4M&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=1032e2623f2ed993e467cae485a2f4b3&oe=5EC0917F)

We do? I don't get it.

I mean I use the stick because if I don't people other people who want to buy groceries get annoyed, but I was not aware I had any particular fondness for sticks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2020, 04:00:10 PM
Closing the gun show loophole would disarm those who can't pass a background check.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 15, 2020, 04:01:33 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2020, 04:00:10 PM
Closing the gun show loophole would disarm those who can't pass a background check.

Just their ability to buy new guns, they would still have their old ones.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Point.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 15, 2020, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 06, 2020, 05:20:40 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83788970_10158297151532792_1357764120044109824_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQl4-hjgOg2y7k1bpSheItW1ijleBmZKgUIKXblSn9MS6cgHoL9c4O2ZXfiUdBjSl4M&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=1032e2623f2ed993e467cae485a2f4b3&oe=5EC0917F)

John Elway?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2020, 04:22:51 PM
I wasn't aware black people liked buying other people's groceries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2020, 04:30:22 PM
It's a super secret double ironic micro-passive aggression. Not to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 15, 2020, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2020, 04:30:22 PM
It's a super secret double ironic micro-passive aggression. Not to be taken seriously.
there :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 15, 2020, 05:39:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2020, 04:30:22 PM
It's a super secret double ironic micro-passive aggression. Not to be taken seriously.

I knew it was a joke, I just didn't get it :blush:

Now I do, thanks!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 15, 2020, 09:40:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2020, 05:39:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2020, 04:30:22 PM
It's a super secret double ironic micro-passive aggression. Not to be taken seriously.

I knew it was a joke, I just didn't get it :blush:

Now I do, thanks!

You didn't immediately see the bagels and creamed cheese immediately in front of The Stick and understand their significance when juxtaposed with The Stick?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2020, 10:01:54 PM
Is it weird that I prefer my bagels with just butter?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 16, 2020, 03:13:40 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 15, 2020, 09:40:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2020, 05:39:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2020, 04:30:22 PM
It's a super secret double ironic micro-passive aggression. Not to be taken seriously.

I knew it was a joke, I just didn't get it :blush:

Now I do, thanks!

You didn't immediately see the bagels and creamed cheese immediately in front of The Stick and understand their significance when juxtaposed with The Stick?

I thought the stick in the picture was one of those oversized pencils that kids use in kindergarten, which left me completely confused.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 19, 2020, 11:14:53 AM
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/02/how_to_wake_the_media_up_about_trump.html?fbclid=IwAR1vBrNrMUDCPx9bYmJ_naIPDqcuTpenE4AT0ylHgdYs6OYfbrMM29zQsJ4#ixzz6EEo0P6AT&f

QuoteThe corruption of Barack Obama
By J.B. Shurk

The national media are flabbergasted that Americans won't consent to President Trump's removal from office.  How can so many of his compatriots be indicted and so many government bureaucrats condemn his behavior without giving them what they desire: self-assurance that they are "on the right side of history"?

If they ever wish to understand, the critical starting point in their education is not the current presidency, but the last one.  Although there are numerous ways to describe the present divide in America, one of the simpler is thus: those Americans who take Barack Obama at his word that his presidency was historically "scandal free" and those Americans who see the unrelenting stream of Deep State attempts to take down President Trump as a continuing coup and the natural extension of an unethical, criminal, and at times unconstitutional Obama presidency.

For those of us in the latter camp, Barack Obama presided over a corrupt administration and used his historic election as the first non-white American president as a get-out-of-jail-free card to abuse his power while silencing his critics.

Whataboutery is frowned upon now that President Trump is in office, but if President Trump had done a tiny percentage of what Obama orchestrated, he actually would be in federal prison. 

Imagine what would have happened if President Trump had done the following:

- used a recession to bilk a trillion dollars from the public to stuff the pockets of campaign donors like Solyndra

- facilitated Agent Brian Terry's murder by arming the Mexican cartels

- targeted American citizens for assassination without a whiff of due process

- lied to voters that their doctors would be protected and premiums reduced, while illegally funding Obamacare and covering illegal aliens' health care

- stolen from victims of Iranian terrorism by plundering escrow accounts protected by law while handing over $1.7 billion in untraceable European currency and planeloads of American cash, releasing twenty-one Iranian convicts, and shutting down a decade-long DEA operation against Hezb'allah's double-whammy assault of smuggling cocaine into the U.S. and financing terrorism against us, all for the glory of an "Iran deal"

- spied on reporters while putting a record number of their sources in jail

- used the IRS as his personal gang of thugs to target conservatives before the 2012 election

- allowed a 9-11 anniversary terrorist attack to unfold without sending reinforcements while falsely blaming the four resulting American deaths on a YouTube video and American free speech

- sent an untold number of American veterans to early deaths through widespread negligence and corruption at the V.A.

- protected his attorney general who lied to lawmakers on the president's behalf so persistently that Democrats joined Republicans to make him the first A.G. to be held in contempt of Congress

- protected his CIA director, who spied on lawmakers and lied about it

- protected his director of National Intelligence, who illegally spied on all Americans and lied about it

- protected his heir apparent, who used an illegal and compromised email server and lied about it

- promoted his U.N. ambassador to national security adviser for unashamedly circuiting Sunday-morning talk shows and peddling demonstrable lies to the American public

- and all of this while betraying his oath of office by vigorously attacking Americans' constitutionally protected free speech, religion, and right to bear arms; squeezing colleges and private companies to submit to his socialist vision; and punishing his ideological foes by using a corrupt Justice Department and FBI to hunt his enemies

If President Trump had done all this and everything else Obama pulled off, well, then the American media might finally see how luminous the federal government's corruption over these many years truly has been.  Instead, not only have they rebuffed Obama's critics as mere racists, but they flood their editorials and airwaves with the commentary of the very actors who took part in his crimes.  Never before have we seen intelligence chiefs and justice department officials so quickly run to television studios to demean themselves as propagandists intent on protecting the last president by taking down the current one.

For those of us not seduced by pretty words and skillful theatrics, the Obama years were a cesspool of corruption that brought back the stench of the Clinton years in a fashionable new package.  Obama ignored court orders and congressional oversight, protected his friends from criminal prosecutions, and stirred up racial tensions by creating unnecessary controversies and playing whites and blacks against each other for electoral gain.  He entered the White House as one of our poorest presidents, and he will die as one of the richest ex-presidents.  Whereas the Clintons found fortune through their charity, Obama has found fortune by greatly benefiting in his post-presidency from companies who coincidentally benefited greatly during his time as president.  Wherever he goes, he picks up checks, including a staggering sixty-five-million-dollar book deal advance from Penguin Random House, a publishing house taken over in 2013 by Bertelsmann, a privately held German company; one of the world's largest media conglomerates; and the parent of Bertelsmann Investments, an international network of private banking funds in the services and natural resources industries, including those in Iran.  The "most transparent president in history" has now become the "most transparent billionaire in history," adding to his vast wealth in ways the public can only imagine. 

So, for the preening junior senator from Utah who manages to be on the wrong side of every issue, the formerly esteemed conservative pundits who now push Bernie Sanders's communism on the United States, and all the news personalities who pretend to have original thoughts by repeating endlessly what the Democratic Party has written for them, if you are dense enough to misinterpret the unprecedented coup against the sitting president instead as crimes worthy of his repeated condemnation and impeachment, it is way past time to sit down, open your mind, and begin learning about the presidency of one Barack Obama.  It will be a lot to take in; it certainly was for those of us who endured it. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 19, 2020, 11:20:08 AM
Is that the best American thinker?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 19, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
I'm not convinced by Mr. Shurk, because I am only seduced by pretty words and skillful theatrics.

Lousy prose, hamfisted false equivalencies, mischaracterizations, and logical fallacies don't work on me, sorry,
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 19, 2020, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 19, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
Lousy prose, hamfisted false equivalencies, mischaracterizations, and logical fallacies don't work on me, sorry,
but they work on 50% of your compatriots :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 19, 2020, 01:03:35 PM
Much higher than that, but only when those lead to the conclusion one wants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 21, 2020, 03:24:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gDoawFx.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 21, 2020, 03:32:32 AM
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 21, 2020, 04:42:59 AM
Cigar bill? :unsure:

I've noticed an odd trend lately for trumpies to hate on Clinton above all others. Why not Obama?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 21, 2020, 05:32:04 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 21, 2020, 03:24:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gDoawFx.jpg)

Hm.  I had expected that was bogus but a quick check suggests that it's pretty accurate (though Trump is apparently up to 35 now, and see below about Ford and Carter).  Some interesting things about pardons*, per Wikipedia: 

Washington and John Adams only issued a few pardons, less than 2 dozen each. 

From Jefferson through Lincoln, Presidents issued between about 100 and 400 pardons, except for Harrison, who issued no pardons in his month in office, and Taylor, who pardoned 38 people in the 16 months he served.

From Andrew Johnson through Nixon, Presidents tended to issue a LOT of pardons by the standards from before the Civil War or those of the Presidents shown on the chart.  Most of them gave out between 800 and about 3600 pardons, except for Johnson, who issued several thousand pardons, mostly for many former Confederate leaders;  Garfield, who issued no pardons in the short time he was in office;  Arthur, who only pardoned 337 people;  and Kennedy, who also had a short Presidency and pardoned 575 people.

Ford issued a conditional amnesty to about 50,000 Vietnam-era draft resisters, and Carter pardoned over 200,000 draft dodgers.   Not sure why those weren't included on the chart.  Possibly it's because they were blanket grants and didn't list the recipients by name?

Most Presidents have had some controversial pardons among those issued.  It's certainly not unheard of for a President to pardon a business or political associate who has gotten into legal trouble. 

*Including amnesties, commutation of sentences, etc., which aren't technically pardons but function similarly.








Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 21, 2020, 05:36:02 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 21, 2020, 04:42:59 AM
Cigar bill? :unsure:

I've noticed an odd trend lately for trumpies to hate on Clinton above all others. Why not Obama?

Is it Trump followers?  I'm anti-Trump, and I dislike the Clintons but certainly don't hate on Obama.  Bill Clinton, as I've said before, was a pig (thought not to the same degree as Trump), whereas Obama was a decent person with whom I disagreed on many issues.

EDIT:  oops, sorry for the double post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on February 21, 2020, 05:48:09 AM
Clinton derangement syndrome has been a longstanding and well documented malady.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2020, 09:02:21 AM
Obama, unlike Trump, actually did use his pardon power to achieve criminal justice reform ends.  Most of his pardons were actually sentence commutations for non-violent drug offenses; it was based on policy, not personality.  That's why his numbers are so high.

Trump isn't abusing his pardon power because he is pardoning lots of people.  He is abusing it because he is using to run a protection racket, where people can get out of jail by showing fealty to him personally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2020, 09:05:12 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 21, 2020, 04:42:59 AM
Cigar bill? :unsure:

I've noticed an odd trend lately for trumpies to hate on Clinton above all others.

He lacked the moral fiber to confine his adulterous acts to porn stars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 21, 2020, 09:22:45 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2020, 09:02:21 AM
Obama, unlike Trump, actually did use his pardon power to achieve criminal justice reform ends.  Most of his pardons were actually sentence commutations for non-violent drug offenses; it was based on policy, not personality.  That's why his numbers are so high.

Trump isn't abusing his pardon power because he is pardoning lots of people.  He is abusing it because he is using to run a protection racket, where people can get out of jail by showing fealty to him personally.

Yeah, there are people Obama pardoned that I don't think should have been pardoned, but despite the high total numbers, he wasn't giving out a lot of pardons to political allies and other pals.  OTOH, Trump isn't alone in pardoning a buck of his own cronies.

There are actually some odd, unexpected pardons on the lists.  Like Harding giving a pardon to Eugene V. Debs, or Carter being the President that pardoned G. Gordon Liddy (well, actually, both Debs and Libby had their sentences commuted, rather than receiving a full pardon).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2020, 09:41:22 AM
Debs was a political prisoner, jailed under the prior administration.

By 1921, pro-war jingoism had cooled and the worst excesses of the Red Scare had passed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 21, 2020, 09:42:24 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30222231_2536100869949338_4849779377317085184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=XIXzxaN0xzUAX89TKCf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=498dcbff8e56d59bfd02dc84b1b2a54c&oe=5F01B1F1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 21, 2020, 09:48:26 AM
Counting is hard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2020, 10:04:34 AM
I can say with some confidence that neither Austrian-made automatic pistols nor ancient Judaean literature played significant roles in American independence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 21, 2020, 10:39:09 AM
I don't see any taxes bills in that picture, and at any rate, taxes are something Democrats want to get rid of.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 29, 2020, 12:57:00 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/hG5xntSQ/vaccine.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 29, 2020, 01:03:54 PM
Somebody doesn't understand how vaccines work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 29, 2020, 01:06:07 PM
Big surprise there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 29, 2020, 01:23:10 PM
Wait. Isn't someone not being vaccinated a good thing for this sort?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 29, 2020, 01:30:00 PM
Don't fight stupid with stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 29, 2020, 01:48:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 29, 2020, 01:03:54 PM
Somebody doesn't understand how vaccines work.

Turns out Trumpists are also antivaccers so they would be concerned about non vaccinated people entering... or  ah no that makes no sense.... something something something, brown people bad, something something something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on February 29, 2020, 02:21:10 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 29, 2020, 01:30:00 PM
Don't fight stupid with stupid.

He has to work with what he's got.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 29, 2020, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 29, 2020, 01:30:00 PM
Don't fight stupid with stupid.


It's better to fight with stupid than fight with clever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 01, 2020, 02:29:19 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/87523916_1438681192958922_3061438751419924480_n.png?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=lQdcMUkUmbEAX8gw-om&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1c1ca647e7679558cb64b36b1196715a&oe=5EBB06AA)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16865135_1233623483402535_9031103500114896139_n.png?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=2d5d41&_nc_ohc=AJvxugRB_ygAX9Z-OCr&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fcfa326feb681ed228501fb216a27f85&oe=5EBD034C)
:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:  :Joos
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 01, 2020, 03:23:25 PM
Your German sister shared this nauseatingly antisemitic post?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 01, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
I'm sure it's ignorant, not realizing Jewish people don't observe Lent. Or that the image is showing Jewish people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 01, 2020, 05:17:41 PM
Woman cradles and protects child. Man carries and protects both. Fool makes a Facebook meme out of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 01, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
The image itself is rather touching.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 01, 2020, 05:56:58 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 29, 2020, 01:30:00 PM
Don't fight stupid with stupid.

Meh. It's futile but I still like pointing out flaws in logic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 02, 2020, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 01, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
I'm sure it's ignorant, not realizing Jewish people don't observe Lent. Or that the image is showing Jewish people.

What is "I'm giving up people for Lent" supposed to mean?

I took it as a "blood libel" cannibalism reference - that these Jews were giving up baby-eating (the "blood libel" is that Jews used baby blood for making Matzos, which they would then eat). The "joke" (scare quotes intentional) being that Jews don't celebrate Lent, so they are not, in fact, giving up baby-eating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on March 02, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 02, 2020, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 01, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
I'm sure it's ignorant, not realizing Jewish people don't observe Lent. Or that the image is showing Jewish people.

What is "I'm giving up people for Lent" supposed to mean?

I took it as a "blood libel" cannibalism reference - that these Jews were giving up baby-eating (the "blood libel" is that Jews used baby blood for making Matzos, which they would then eat). The "joke" (scare quotes intentional) being that Jews don't celebrate Lent, so they are not, in fact, giving up baby-eating.
"I'm giving up people" is a commonly expressed sentiment from people frustrated with the stupidity/cruelty/etc of the general population.

I didn't realise it depicted Jewish people until it was mentioned and I went back and saw the scroll. I don't usually look very closely at the pictures on these things as they are usually pretty meaningless.

It would not have occurred to me to get blood libel out of it. I guess that's why we have these discussions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2020, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 02, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
"I'm giving up people" is a commonly expressed sentiment from people frustrated with the stupidity/cruelty/etc of the general population.

This is the way I took it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 02, 2020, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2020, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 02, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
"I'm giving up people" is a commonly expressed sentiment from people frustrated with the stupidity/cruelty/etc of the general population.

This is the way I took it.

That is the way I took it at first...but then was baffled by the Jews in the picture. So I don't get what the fuck the person assembling that image originally was trying to say.

But then the weird choice of images is something Syt's relatives are specialists on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 02, 2020, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2020, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 02, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
"I'm giving up people" is a commonly expressed sentiment from people frustrated with the stupidity/cruelty/etc of the general population.

This is the way I took it.

I definitely took it as a blood libel joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 02, 2020, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2020, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 02, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
"I'm giving up people" is a commonly expressed sentiment from people frustrated with the stupidity/cruelty/etc of the general population.

This is the way I took it.

Me too.  So I was completely confused as to why Oex found it anti-Semitic. 

But yeah, if the man and boy are supposed to be Jewish (at first I thought that they were supposed to be some sort of eastern rite Catholics or members of some Orthodox sect), then it is an example of the blood libel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 02, 2020, 02:18:33 PM
Quote from: dps on March 02, 2020, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2020, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 02, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
"I'm giving up people" is a commonly expressed sentiment from people frustrated with the stupidity/cruelty/etc of the general population.

This is the way I took it.

Me too.  So I was completely confused as to why Oex found it anti-Semitic. 

But yeah, if the man and boy are supposed to be Jewish (at first I thought that they were supposed to be some sort of eastern rite Catholics or members of some Orthodox sect), then it is an example of the blood libel.

They are definitely supposed to be Jews.

-Wearing kippahs
-Reading from Torah scroll (the stuff in front of the kid is the traditional Torah scroll décor)
- the adult is wearing a prayer shawl
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 02, 2020, 02:21:09 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 02, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 02, 2020, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 01, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
I'm sure it's ignorant, not realizing Jewish people don't observe Lent. Or that the image is showing Jewish people.

What is "I'm giving up people for Lent" supposed to mean?

I took it as a "blood libel" cannibalism reference - that these Jews were giving up baby-eating (the "blood libel" is that Jews used baby blood for making Matzos, which they would then eat). The "joke" (scare quotes intentional) being that Jews don't celebrate Lent, so they are not, in fact, giving up baby-eating.
"I'm giving up people" is a commonly expressed sentiment from people frustrated with the stupidity/cruelty/etc of the general population.

I didn't realise it depicted Jewish people until it was mentioned and I went back and saw the scroll. I don't usually look very closely at the pictures on these things as they are usually pretty meaningless.

It would not have occurred to me to get blood libel out of it. I guess that's why we have these discussions.

That may be part of the "joke". If the image depicted some random person (or with no image at all) it would be innocuous, a simple expression of frustration at people.

By adding Jews, it gains a double meaning.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2020, 02:24:43 PM
If it's the blood libel, the two don't make any sense in connection.

"Transgenders are fucked.  Because of this, kill all Jews."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 02, 2020, 02:28:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2020, 02:24:43 PM
If it's the blood libel, the two don't make any sense in connection.

"Transgenders are fucked.  Because of this, kill all Jews."

I didn't take it that the two were intended to be connected.

I just assumed one was aimed at attacking "libtard academics" about gender issues, and the other was a nasty Jew-hating joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on March 02, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 02, 2020, 02:21:09 PM

That may be part of the "joke". If the image depicted some random person (or with no image at all) it would be innocuous, a simple expression of frustration at people.

By adding Jews, it gains a double meaning.
Only if the image has meaning, which it usually doesn't, but in this case yea, it's probably not safe to assume that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 02, 2020, 03:02:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 01, 2020, 03:33:34 PM
I'm sure it's ignorant, not realizing Jewish people don't observe Lent. Or that the image is showing Jewish people.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but your people have claimed ignorance regarding Jews before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 02, 2020, 03:08:53 PM
I have to admit that this text/image was creating a reference to blood libel didn't even cross my mind until it was mentioned. AFAICT it's not something that comes up in discussions of antisemitism much over here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 02, 2020, 03:10:49 PM
Yeah the blood libel is a very fringe thing even in the fringe rabid anti-Semite circles nowadays, in Hungary at least.

But I guess it's hard to find any other point to that drawing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 02, 2020, 03:17:09 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 02, 2020, 03:10:49 PM
Yeah the blood libel is a very fringe thing even in the fringe rabid anti-Semite circles nowadays, in Hungary at least.

But I guess it's hard to find any other point to that drawing.

Oh I don't think even rabid anti-semites actually believe in the blood libel.

But that's what makes it a "joke".  You're referencing the blood libel, but only "ironically".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 02, 2020, 03:17:34 PM
The simplest explanation, to me, seems to be they chose a random background image and had no clue what they were doing. Associating it with the blood libel seems to be stretching way too far to explain an idiotic mistake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 02, 2020, 03:19:04 PM
The alternative that I see is that they meant to put the Jews on there and are asserting that they are literally "giving up" people for Lent--IE, informing on the Jews and giving them over to the secret police.

And that is another extreme stretch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 02, 2020, 03:30:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 02, 2020, 03:17:34 PM
The simplest explanation, to me, seems to be they chose a random background image and had no clue what they were doing. Associating it with the blood libel seems to be stretching way too far to explain an idiotic mistake.

Why isn't the simplest explanation the fact that the meme-maker is making a blood libel "joke"?

It's really obvious those figures are meant to be jewish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 02, 2020, 03:33:21 PM
The card doesn't make any more sense as a reference to the blood libel than as a reference to anything else.  The BL version would be "babies" not "people."

OTOH, "I'm Giving Up People For Lent" seems to be a meme of some standing, though not related to that card.

The pin that the IGUPfL comes from is by a poster whose got a ton of other stuff, none of it religious.  I'm going to say that this was an innocuous use of an image she probably didn't realize depicted Jews.

Here is the original of the card (I think)
(https://www.someecards.com/usercards/viewcard/MjAxMi0xMzE0NWUzZjIyODU0OWEy/)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 02, 2020, 03:34:53 PM
The image isn't showing in the previous post (maybe the site doesn't allow crossposting).  If you can't see it, look at a quote and follow the link.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 02, 2020, 03:46:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 02, 2020, 03:30:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 02, 2020, 03:17:34 PM
The simplest explanation, to me, seems to be they chose a random background image and had no clue what they were doing. Associating it with the blood libel seems to be stretching way too far to explain an idiotic mistake.

Why isn't the simplest explanation the fact that the meme-maker is making a blood libel "joke"?

It's really obvious those figures are meant to be jewish.

Because I'm not convinced that the people sharing it even know what the blood libel is. Ditto for the vast majority of people in the first place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 02, 2020, 04:01:42 PM
I think it's a classic case of dog whistle. Antisemitic conservatives meme-makers (and there are legions, which lead me to believe it really was intentional) nod approvingly while merely xenophobic conservatives share cluelessly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 02, 2020, 04:12:55 PM
If we make them Chancellor we can control them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 02, 2020, 04:24:04 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 02, 2020, 03:46:53 PM
Because I'm not convinced that the people sharing it even know what the blood libel is. Ditto for the vast majority of people in the first place.

Many probably don't know the term "blood libel", nor know the history or specifics of it (that the blood goes into matzoh for passover), but the notion that Jews drink the blood of Christian babies is pretty widely known, though not I think widely believed.

I think I recall joking in college with jewish friends about it, much in the same way you'd joke with an italian friend about being a mobster.  And Lord knows Malthus has used jokes like that on Languish going back to 2003.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 02, 2020, 04:27:13 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 02, 2020, 03:33:21 PM
The card doesn't make any more sense as a reference to the blood libel than as a reference to anything else.  The BL version would be "babies" not "people."

OTOH, "I'm Giving Up People For Lent" seems to be a meme of some standing, though not related to that card.

The pin that the IGUPfL comes from is by a poster whose got a ton of other stuff, none of it religious.  I'm going to say that this was an innocuous use of an image she probably didn't realize depicted Jews.

Here is the original of the card (I think)
(https://www.someecards.com/usercards/viewcard/MjAxMi0xMzE0NWUzZjIyODU0OWEy/)

"Babies" wouldn't be funny.

The whole point of making it a "joke" is that it have a double meaning - one innocuous, one vile.

The innocuous one relies on "giving up people for Lent" being a longstanding meme. The vile one depends on Jew-haters smirking over the fact that the people depicted are Jews (therefore not likely to be into Lent), thus "ironically" referencing the Blood Libel (that no-one these days actually believes in) for laughs.

The "fun" part is knowing that you are making a vile joke that only the like-minded will "get". As Oex says, a classic dog whistle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 02, 2020, 04:39:13 PM
I think you guys who see this as deliberately antisemitic are seeing what you want to see, rather than, say, doing what i did and looking at the other pins by the woman who created this, but I won't argue this any more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 02, 2020, 05:01:36 PM
Yeah I agree, the level of elaboratedness you guys imply is not only well beyond Syt's sister (sorry dude!), but also well beyond the creators of the "memes" she shares.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 02, 2020, 05:08:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 02, 2020, 05:01:36 PM
Yeah I agree, the level of elaboratedness you guys imply is not only well beyond Syt's sister (sorry dude!), but also well beyond the creators of the "memes" she shares.

I don't get it - it's not an elaborate joke at all. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 02, 2020, 05:13:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 02, 2020, 05:08:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 02, 2020, 05:01:36 PM
Yeah I agree, the level of elaboratedness you guys imply is not only well beyond Syt's sister (sorry dude!), but also well beyond the creators of the "memes" she shares.

I don't get it - it's not an elaborate joke at all. :huh:

I'm with BB - any joke sounds "elaborate" if you explain it (try explaining why a "pun" is supposed to be funny). The actual funny part is pretty simple. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 02, 2020, 06:12:41 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 02, 2020, 04:01:42 PM
I think it's a classic case of dog whistle. Antisemitic conservatives meme-makers (and there are legions, which lead me to believe it really was intentional) nod approvingly while merely xenophobic conservatives share cluelessly.


Yeah, I see that a lot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 02, 2020, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 02, 2020, 04:24:04 PM
I think I recall joking in college with jewish friends about it, much in the same way you'd joke with an italian friend about being a mobster.

I think I'd more likely joke with an Italian friend about how it's sad that his country has to rely on stories of artillerymen dying by their pieces for its tales of military glory.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2020, 07:03:41 PM
I don't get it. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 03, 2020, 02:09:05 AM
My sisters don't have a track record of posting antisemitic content. In fact my other sister just shared:

QuoteHananya NaftaliLike Page
March 1 at 8:00 PM ·
Imam Omar Suleiman spoke at Bernie Sanders' rally in Texas.

This Imam is known for calling for Israel's destruction, promoting sex slavery, honor killings, and believes that, "Zionists are the enemies of God."

Is this what Bernie Sanders stands for too?

The sister who shared the Lent image has a history, though, of posting stuff about getting away/not having to deal with people. So I guess she saw the text and shared without thinking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 03, 2020, 02:55:11 AM
That's your modern fascist for you though.
Women's rights, gay rights, (anti) anti semitism.... All causes they care deeply about....when it's a group they hate more responsible for it.
Give them those issues alone though and the Jewish lesbians can fuck right off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 03, 2020, 08:24:38 AM
https://www.secondamendmentdaily.com/2020/02/mass-shooting-in-seattle-ignored-why-because-two-perps-already-had-65-arrests-35-convictions/?fbclid=IwAR1xiWS3N-L10EXsd97XLo3TZbF26ELgSn9bGkh0O8_WvOQPrAGAWWs_gag

QuoteMass Shooting In Seattle Ignored! Why? Because Two Perps Already Had 65 Arrests/35 Convictions!

Between the Super Bowl, impeachment headlines and the hysterical Common Core math the Democrats are using in the Iowa Caucus, we wanted to tell you about some news you won't hear!  There was a terrible mass shooting on January 22nd that's gone unreported and is rapidly disappearing down the memory hole.

It happened in Seattle–a town filled with anti-gun zealots who are so far left they're hard to find on a map.  Why isn't half the city marching in the streets?  Normally they'd be calling press conferences and flying in David Hogg and all the regular media circus. What gives?

Because these two thugs don't fit the narrative!  Check out these two stellar young men:

(https://www.secondamendmentdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Screenshot_2020-02-04-Seattle-shooting-suspects-Marquise-Tolbert-William-Ray-Tolliver-have-65-arrests-35-convictions-betw...-298x300.png)

These two gentlemen, Marquise Tolbert and William Ray Tolliver, both 24, were walking to McDonalds when they got into an argument.  They pulled out their illegal handguns and engaged in a Hollywood-style ghetto gun battle.

In the chaos, seven people were shot and one woman was killed.  One shooting victim was a 9-year-old boy.  The boy was released from the hospital on January 24th after a bullet shattered his femur.

And it gets even worse.  These two young men were familiar to the police.  In fact, both already had outstanding warrants at the time of the shooting.  One of the men has already been arrested a staggering 44 times!  He even has 20 criminal convictions. The other has at least 21 arrests and 15 convictions!

These two thugs had outstanding warrants and more than 65 arrests between them!

Friends Through It All!

Previously so upset with each other that they were willing to draw guns and unleash carnage on innocent bystanders, the two ran off together after the shooting.  They were located by police in Las Vegas, Nevada, and will be extradited back to Seattle.

That's friendship, man.   If you can go 15 rounds of 9mm with a buddy and still be thick as thieves, that friendship isn't going anywhere.

Previously so upset with each other that they were willing to draw guns and unleash carnage on innocent bystanders, the two ran off together after the shooting.  They were located by police in Las Vegas, Nevada, and will be extradited back to Seattle.

That's friendship, man.   If you can go 15 rounds of 9mm with a buddy and still be thick as thieves, that friendship isn't going anywhere.

If The Media Is Silent, It Will Go Away

But gun control advocates don't want to talk about this mass shooting.

First of all, these men were both convicted felons, and thus already not legally allowed to purchase or own a gun.  And yet–shocking, we know–they broke the law and had guns anyway!

The media also won't talk about this shooting because the left wants to blame dangerous, racist white men for 'gun violence' and these two don't fit the picture.

Also, this shooting happened in a 'gun free zone' near a mass transit hub.  See how that turned out for the unarmed folks who were obeying the gun free zone signs?  Not so great.

Seattle, like New York and other tyrannical anti-gun cities is proud of their leniency towards violent criminals, but then wails and moans when these same criminals commit violent crime.

You can't fix stupid.  All you can do is distract the people from the man behind the curtain and hope that you're still fooling your crowd.

These sorts of thugs' crimes are used to conjure up statistics about 'gun owners' without ever admitting that these two were disqualified from that pool years ago!  And why in hell weren't they already in prison?  Sixty-five arrests?!

Share this around before it gets buried by the stories the #FakeNews want you to see!

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 03, 2020, 05:51:52 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28379036_1624942417552783_4805901426383335233_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_oc=AQkIBtqWA4i9h_N1ECFCu1GwTpe-RFpj2APFo3MA9d-D1pE0atnItcyJA62kFVhDIA0&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=0f16fcb496473cd4cfd17d34bfa28614&oe=5E821C5C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 03, 2020, 06:08:33 PM
The logic just doesn't make sense. Gun control is bad because... Convicted criminals can eaaily get hold of guns?
That's backwards thinking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 03, 2020, 06:20:22 PM
Clearly there would have been less collateral damage from a shootout if more people had guns and were shooting in a crowded restaurant.

LOGIC!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 03, 2020, 07:26:12 PM
What's wrong with hockey and maple syrup?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 03, 2020, 07:28:02 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 03, 2020, 06:08:33 PM
The logic just doesn't make sense. Gun control is bad because... Convicted criminals can eaaily get hold of guns?
That's backwards thinking.

I think it was just a funny Canadian making a Canadian version of this American image.

Like you have assault rifles and bibles? Well we have hockey and maple syrup.

I didn't expect such a patriotically Canadian image from Viper though :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 03, 2020, 07:29:11 PM
He was referring to the post before that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 03, 2020, 09:04:44 PM
I thought the Canadian guy was holding a jug of whiskey. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 03, 2020, 11:08:44 PM
Quote from: dps on March 03, 2020, 09:04:44 PM
I thought the Canadian guy was holding a jug of whiskey.

Given the context, guaranteed it's maple syrup.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on March 03, 2020, 11:15:34 PM
I thought it was a Lent reference by someone too clueless to know the difference between Jews and Christians and that Jews don't celebrate Lent.

Truly a Rorschach test.   :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2020, 11:22:51 PM
Quote from: Camerus on March 03, 2020, 11:15:34 PM
I thought it was a Lent reference by someone too clueless to know the difference between Jews and Christians and that Jews don't celebrate Lent.

Truly a Rorschach test.   :hmm:

Yeah.  I still see it as maple syrup.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 04, 2020, 12:41:38 AM
Meanwhile, I want to know what kind of loser hoser Canadian is still using a wooden hockey stick. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 04, 2020, 12:57:53 AM
I would have thought a conservative would appreciate that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 04, 2020, 01:06:52 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 04, 2020, 12:57:53 AM
I would have thought a conservative would appreciate that.

I', also a hockey player.  Nobody uses a wooden stick. Nobody.  Haven't for 20 years. :Canuck:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 04, 2020, 01:46:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 03, 2020, 07:28:02 PM
I didn't expect such a patriotically Canadian image from Viper though :P
They just had the wrong flag.  Everyone makes mistakes.  :P

Besides, it's not called "facebook follies from my own feed" ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 04, 2020, 10:58:45 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89172317_2501030246776790_4864421114102677504_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=1HjOk6tuV1EAX_QdWIT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d295474677e401eb7636ed0ed55ee722&oe=5E7FF182)

:tinfoil:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 04, 2020, 11:08:27 AM
The Clinton hate continues to be bizzare. But I guess it's good in a way. Gives the idiots something to do in attacking a political irrelevancy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 04, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 04, 2020, 10:58:45 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89172317_2501030246776790_4864421114102677504_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=1HjOk6tuV1EAX_QdWIT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d295474677e401eb7636ed0ed55ee722&oe=5E7FF182)

:tinfoil:

This Lars is obviously claiming to be Chelsea's son.

It's just missing some commas, and "have" rather than "has".

;)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 04, 2020, 12:54:34 PM
Is he related to Lars Porsenna?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 04, 2020, 02:54:09 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89250284_2677417972518171_8313913227322851328_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_oc=AQko9uihWqSxm8fJD4XrZFdOFjqI13LZzMCNBzg7Cbwu40M8KDHwwcmh5kbsZaAkswM&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=289b6f7fa638f7fd496fc91f97a7ae9c&oe=5E9553AC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 04, 2020, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 04, 2020, 11:08:27 AM
The Clinton hate continues to be bizzare. But I guess it's good in a way. Gives the idiots something to do in attacking a political irrelevancy

We've finally reached the "Yo mamma" phase of our political discourse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on March 04, 2020, 08:15:22 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 04, 2020, 01:06:52 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 04, 2020, 12:57:53 AM
I would have thought a conservative would appreciate that.

I', also a hockey player.  Nobody uses a wooden stick. Nobody.  Haven't for 20 years. :Canuck:

What? I've used wooden sticks. I haven't played in 3-4 years but most guys used those.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 05, 2020, 02:37:17 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52911748_2526200454120615_7324890616783962112_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=D9wcQaIPPMsAX_vSNfW&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ba94edc85febcfc3ad6566d92df1b6e2&oe=5E944D8F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 05:07:04 AM
And make Mexico pay for it!

The stupidity of your family has no limit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 05, 2020, 08:29:52 AM
How many Americans have been murdered by illegal immigrants vs. legal ones?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 09:49:38 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 05, 2020, 08:29:52 AM
How many Americans have been murdered by illegal immigrants vs. legal ones?  :hmm:

Sum those totals and compare to the number killed by people born in the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 05, 2020, 10:49:55 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 09:49:38 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 05, 2020, 08:29:52 AM
How many Americans have been murdered by illegal immigrants vs. legal ones?  :hmm:

Sum those totals and compare to the number killed by people born in the US.


To be fair a wall can work both ways.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 05, 2020, 10:57:49 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 09:49:38 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 05, 2020, 08:29:52 AM
How many Americans have been murdered by illegal immigrants vs. legal ones?  :hmm:

Sum those totals and compare to the number killed by people born in the US.
And then ask yourself why you're comparing the numbers without normalizing for population of these three groups.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 11:42:48 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 05, 2020, 10:57:49 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 09:49:38 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 05, 2020, 08:29:52 AM
How many Americans have been murdered by illegal immigrants vs. legal ones?  :hmm:

Sum those totals and compare to the number killed by people born in the US.
And then ask yourself why you're comparing the numbers without normalizing for population of these three groups.

And then I would say to myself, where the hell did that stupid idea come from.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 05, 2020, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 11:42:48 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 05, 2020, 10:57:49 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 09:49:38 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 05, 2020, 08:29:52 AM
How many Americans have been murdered by illegal immigrants vs. legal ones?  :hmm:

Sum those totals and compare to the number killed by people born in the US.
And then ask yourself why you're comparing the numbers without normalizing for population of these three groups.

And then I would say to myself, where the hell did that stupid idea come from.
And then I would answer that it came from the desire to not be dishonest and misleading with statistics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 05, 2020, 12:23:46 PM
If the voices in your head are arguing, you might have a problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 12:57:08 PM
 :lol:

Well done
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 05, 2020, 01:03:04 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 05, 2020, 12:23:46 PM
If the voices in your head are arguing, you might have a problem.
I'm much more concerned that one of the voices in my head sounds exactly like CC.  I sure hope that's the one inner voice of mine that never takes charge of my outer voice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 01:05:43 PM
Tell me why one would want to do a lot of work to get a statistically correct analysis when all we are talking about is that the facebook post is stupid.

This is why accountants get a bad rap ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 05, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xKijfSPLPilaHm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 05, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 01:05:43 PM
Tell me why one would want to do a lot of work to get a statistically correct analysis when all we are talking about is that the facebook post is stupid.

This is why accountants get a bad rap ;)
Because you never want to make an argument with numbers that's dishonest on the face of it.  Even when the point is trivial.  Even when the point you're trying to prove is morally right.  Even when the point you're trying to prove is factually correct anyway.

If you think the point is too trivial to spend time doing the bare minimum of intellectually honest comparison, then just don't do it at all.  There will be plenty of other people using bad math to prove the morally correct points, save your reputation for something more important.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 01:46:37 PM
Dude this is a casual thread talking about Syt's crazy family.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 05, 2020, 01:47:30 PM
I think CC is just showing that he's "seen cases where anecdotal evidence explains the outcomes better than facts,"  as someone else was arguing here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 05, 2020, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 05, 2020, 01:47:30 PM
I think CC is just showing that he's "seen cases where anecdotal evidence explains the outcomes better than facts,"  as someone else was arguing here.
That might've been a metajoke rather than a serious argument.  Just putting that possibility out there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 05, 2020, 08:22:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 01:05:43 PM
This is why accountants get a bad rap ;)
Accountants don't really use stats in their daily work. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 06, 2020, 02:17:22 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 05, 2020, 08:22:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 01:05:43 PM
This is why accountants get a bad rap ;)
Accountants don't really use stats in their daily work. ;)

Certainly not Charisma.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 06, 2020, 03:23:01 AM
Not much use for strength either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 06, 2020, 07:15:57 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 05, 2020, 08:22:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 01:05:43 PM
This is why accountants get a bad rap ;)
Accountants don't really use stats in their daily work. ;)

Mainly in internet discussion groups
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 06, 2020, 07:20:33 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 06, 2020, 02:17:22 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 05, 2020, 08:22:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2020, 01:05:43 PM
This is why accountants get a bad rap ;)
Accountants don't really use stats in their daily work. ;)

Certainly not Charisma.

Only good for one member at the squad, at best. Combined with Leadership, of course.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 09, 2020, 01:48:44 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/88302194_2674735982744300_7806075263451660288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_eui2=AeHDtxYbcOGHD67cNf4di80lbzRqBNvsecWC9CNnyt1ORucGH_ub09O45oif2mTWhHo0DTKBdirCID97zzOsSjOR1q_nIcV86N_vYCzNhlDoyA&_nc_ohc=aGH4QHXrNzAAX8hkG9f&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=87a80f0d8068e3c24e04384a505f64de&oe=5E961E24)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 09, 2020, 01:55:13 AM
I think Bernie made his selling books.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 10, 2020, 01:21:58 AM

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/87760887_10219537161953959_3822701806052442112_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_eui2=AeHAV-_VZtlXPOuNvcy2HFY45cmwTYvrlUqd4xoS5Xd0S3OA6wA7Al4gAJUJfTVTy-d36X53gjBBtp8e4FixXdhCLcnvfVvrLnpt8c6MvFRyIQ&_nc_ohc=XsH5jQWhRO0AX8nR_yq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a22e8f627638063c1d5b479f0959044b&oe=5E9497AB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on March 10, 2020, 03:28:41 AM
I like how the every part fails already in 2006.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 10, 2020, 09:06:08 AM
Maybe diseases are not all about US elections?

I don't think "contagion factor" is a real thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 10, 2020, 09:12:10 AM
If that really was posted at a doctor's office - and a I doubt it - somebody should have their license reviewed.

First the cure rate is zero.  There is no cure.  People recover which is not the same thing.  One would think a doctor would know that.

The R0 of SARS peaked at around 2.7 not 4.  That is also around where corona seems to be now, which also happens to be the high estimate for Spanish Flu epidemic of 1919.

I don't know what is meant by corona virus spread "leveling off"  - it is clearly spreading very fast.

The SARS outbreak happened in 2003, which was probably an election year somewhere, but not the US.  Maybe Hong Kong municipal elections?
I'm not sure why Avian flu is assigned to 2008 - there was a minor outbreak in 2005-06.  There are cases every years, 2008 was not unusually high.
The swine flu pandemic was 2009 not 2010
I think that's enough effort on this bizarre conspiracy theory.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 10, 2020, 09:14:49 AM
The narrative that diseases are being created because of elections is just bizarre. This is the only time we have had a disease of any significance in an election year and it is way too early to know if it will even impact anything.

I mean besides the fact that this thing originated in China with enormous political and economic impacts to its system, which seems like an awfully big sacrifice just to maybe influence a US election.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 10, 2020, 09:18:29 AM
The only reason this outbreak has become embroiled in politics is because the President keeps going on TV saying painfully stupid and obviously false things about it and tweeting his usual inanities. If he could just act normal for once there wouldn't be a political narrative about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 10, 2020, 09:26:14 AM
 I think this epidemic is the latest proof that this global "alt-right" movement or rather the resurgence of the radical right is in fact a surge of nihilists.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 10, 2020, 09:18:29 AM
The only reason this outbreak has become embroiled in politics is because the President keeps going on TV saying painfully stupid and obviously false things about it and tweeting his usual inanities. If he could just act normal for once there wouldn't be a political narrative about it.

I disagree.  I think it was already being politicized before he started spouting off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 10, 2020, 09:31:51 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 10, 2020, 09:18:29 AM
The only reason this outbreak has become embroiled in politics is because the President keeps going on TV saying painfully stupid and obviously false things about it and tweeting his usual inanities. If he could just act normal for once there wouldn't be a political narrative about it.

I disagree.  I think it was already being politicized before he started spouting off.

Well I guess locking everybody in Wuhan in their homes was pretty political.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 10, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 10, 2020, 09:18:29 AM
The only reason this outbreak has become embroiled in politics is because the President keeps going on TV saying painfully stupid and obviously false things about it and tweeting his usual inanities. If he could just act normal for once there wouldn't be a political narrative about it.

I disagree.  I think it was already being politicized before he started spouting off.

That would have been quite impossible seeing how he pounced on it.

Come on mate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 10:06:31 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 10, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
That would have been quite impossible seeing how he pounced on it.

Come on mate.

Come on yourself.  Trump took notice of Covid 19 fairly late in the game.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 10, 2020, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 10:06:31 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 10, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
That would have been quite impossible seeing how he pounced on it.

Come on mate.

Come on yourself.  Trump took notice of Covid 19 fairly late in the game.

Yeah once it started impacting the stock market.

But it was a political issue the moment the first case was discovered in China.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 10, 2020, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 10, 2020, 09:12:10 AM
If that really was posted at a doctor's office - and a I doubt it - somebody should have their license reviewed.

First the cure rate is zero.  There is no cure.  People recover which is not the same thing.  One would think a doctor would know that.

The R0 of SARS peaked at around 2.7 not 4.  That is also around where corona seems to be now, which also happens to be the high estimate for Spanish Flu epidemic of 1919.

I don't know what is meant by corona virus spread "leveling off"  - it is clearly spreading very fast.

The SARS outbreak happened in 2003, which was probably an election year somewhere, but not the US.  Maybe Hong Kong municipal elections?
I'm not sure why Avian flu is assigned to 2008 - there was a minor outbreak in 2005-06.  There are cases every years, 2008 was not unusually high.
The swine flu pandemic was 2009 not 2010
I think that's enough effort on this bizarre conspiracy theory.

:secret: Be careful:  pointing out reasons to suspect that something is fake will be savagely attacked on this forum.  If you don't then concede that your suspicions were utterly unjustified, you'll be accused of never admitting that you were wrong.   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 10, 2020, 10:58:30 AM
It's only Political in the USA, where everything is political.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 11:00:01 AM
Joan, you're a smelly douchebag and I hate you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: dps on March 10, 2020, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 10, 2020, 09:14:49 AM
The narrative that diseases are being created because of elections is just bizarre. This is the only time we have had a disease of any significance in an election year and it is way too early to know if it will even impact anything.

I don't think the narrative is that diseases are being created because of elections, but rather that there are outbreaks of new or previously obscure diseases almost all the time. but they only become big stories in election years.  In other words, it's a "blame the media" narrative.

And I think that narrative actually has some merit, not because of media bias, but because the media always needs a big story.  It's only some merit, though, because, well, if a whole province in China gets essentially put in lockdown, it is a big story, no media exaggeration or overblown hysteria needed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 10, 2020, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 10, 2020, 09:14:49 AM
The narrative that diseases are being created because of elections is just bizarre.

Hey, it actually happened ... once!  :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajneeshee_bioterror_attack
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 10, 2020, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2020, 10:06:31 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 10, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
That would have been quite impossible seeing how he pounced on it.

Come on mate.

Come on yourself.  Trump took notice of Covid 19 fairly late in the game.


I don't know what Trump notices or doesn't notice, but his administration took notice of it early on.  They regarded it as beneficial.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 10, 2020, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 10, 2020, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 10, 2020, 09:12:10 AM
If that really was posted at a doctor's office - and a I doubt it - somebody should have their license reviewed.

First the cure rate is zero.  There is no cure.  People recover which is not the same thing.  One would think a doctor would know that.

The R0 of SARS peaked at around 2.7 not 4.  That is also around where corona seems to be now, which also happens to be the high estimate for Spanish Flu epidemic of 1919.

I don't know what is meant by corona virus spread "leveling off"  - it is clearly spreading very fast.

The SARS outbreak happened in 2003, which was probably an election year somewhere, but not the US.  Maybe Hong Kong municipal elections?
I'm not sure why Avian flu is assigned to 2008 - there was a minor outbreak in 2005-06.  There are cases every years, 2008 was not unusually high.
The swine flu pandemic was 2009 not 2010
I think that's enough effort on this bizarre conspiracy theory.

:secret: Be careful:  pointing out reasons to suspect that something is fake will be savagely attacked on this forum.  If you don't then concede that your suspicions were utterly unjustified, you'll be accused of never admitting that you were wrong.
He's not presenting his suspicions as facts, and calling people who believe otherwise gullible.  I think he's safe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 10, 2020, 07:40:44 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 10, 2020, 04:54:14 PM
He's not presenting his suspicions as facts, and calling people who believe otherwise gullible.  I think he's safe.

I didn't present my suspicions as facts, either.  It didn't help me.  The dogpile was still a dogpile.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2020, 07:55:57 PM
Whining about it afterward doesn't help any.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on March 10, 2020, 08:29:10 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 10, 2020, 07:40:44 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 10, 2020, 04:54:14 PM
He's not presenting his suspicions as facts, and calling people who believe otherwise gullible.  I think he's safe.

I didn't present my suspicions as facts, either.  It didn't help me.  The dogpile was still a dogpile.

Poor widdle grumbler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on March 10, 2020, 08:32:00 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2020, 07:55:57 PM
Whining about it afterward doesn't help any.  :P
Especially if you still can't admit you are wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 10, 2020, 08:48:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 10, 2020, 07:40:44 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 10, 2020, 04:54:14 PM
He's not presenting his suspicions as facts, and calling people who believe otherwise gullible.  I think he's safe.

I didn't present my suspicions as facts, either.  It didn't help me.  The dogpile was still a dogpile.
There is no reason for admitting you were wrong when reasonable suspicions turn out to be unfounded.  It happens, or else suspicions would automatically be born as facts.

What would be a good idea to admit being wrong about is implying that those who didn't see it the same way you did were not sufficiently discerning.  When you imply that people who don't share your suspicions are gullible, you kind of paint yourself into a corner.  At that point you are betting your face on your suspicions being correct.

You lost that bet that time, and now you're trying to re-litigate that after a couple of days, and in another thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2020, 08:50:50 PM
"DGullible" does have a certain ring to it, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 10, 2020, 08:57:55 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2020, 08:50:50 PM
"DGullible" does have a certain ring to it, though.
Too bad it means the opposite (or rather the slip side) of the original, something which I suspect was lost on the authors of such a clever nickname.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2020, 09:17:16 PM
Uhm, how so?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 10, 2020, 09:36:01 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2020, 09:17:16 PM
Uhm, how so?  :huh:
Guller is the one who gulls the gullible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2020, 09:46:07 PM
Ah, nobody uses that word anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 11, 2020, 05:01:08 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 10, 2020, 09:36:01 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2020, 09:17:16 PM
Uhm, how so?  :huh:
Guller is the one who gulls the gullible.


Huh.  I thought it was Russification of the name "Heller".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 12, 2020, 02:13:19 PM
From my sister, the nurse.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/88433612_2913198678797716_8764913711417655296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_eui2=AeFvUFnUWqzBXJ_R2LinBNg0qtLOkXb3426n4ge6BW1vNlLWXMkFYtEf3zoyJaYFmoOSI1L_ygQSGIKrez8kab8e349Wmq-tC0VrLUaN-JQWuQ&_nc_ohc=yLcUdM2VEAgAX8_ZdcN&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c0cfdc15fc81b5af26ebe0afd3c5e124&oe=5E91FAC7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
Sorry honey.  That position is one day out of date.  :console:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2020, 02:36:08 PM
What effect will there be in the Presidential elections if Covid does turn out to have a mortality rate which is similar to the flu?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 12, 2020, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
Sorry honey.  That position is one day out of date.  :console:

They forgot to tell her we have always been at war with Eastasia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 12, 2020, 02:45:10 PM
In that event the United States will be taken over by a very short warlord who will invade Canada and have everyone over six feet tall shot.

I can only imagine how your sisters would be taking this thing if Hillary was President :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2020, 02:48:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 12, 2020, 02:45:10 PM
In that event the United States will be taken over by a very short warlord who will invade Canada and have everyone over six feet tall shot.

I can only imagine how your sisters would be taking this thing if Hillary was President :lol:

Not worried.  Warlords tend to favour the strong
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 12, 2020, 03:13:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 12, 2020, 02:45:10 PM
In that event the United States will be taken over by a very short warlord who will invade Canada and have everyone over six feet tall shot.

I can only imagine how your sisters would be taking this thing if Hillary was President :lol:

What if you are exactly six feet tall?

Asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2020, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 12, 2020, 03:13:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 12, 2020, 02:45:10 PM
In that event the United States will be taken over by a very short warlord who will invade Canada and have everyone over six feet tall shot.

I can only imagine how your sisters would be taking this thing if Hillary was President :lol:

What if you are exactly six feet tall?

Asking for a friend.

Warlords tend to favour the strong

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 12, 2020, 03:52:22 PM
The tall have crippling knee and back issues. The dictator will take that into consideration :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2020, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 12, 2020, 03:52:22 PM
The tap have crippling knee and back issues. The dictator will take that into consideration :P

:unsure:

Tall?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 12, 2020, 04:07:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2020, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 12, 2020, 03:52:22 PM
The tap have crippling knee and back issues. The dictator will take that into consideration :P

:unsure:

Tall?

:blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 12, 2020, 04:20:58 PM
Don't feel bad Portagee.  Autocorrects can happen on phones.  I just wanted to know what you meant.  :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2020, 04:26:53 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 12, 2020, 03:52:22 PM
The tall have crippling knee and back issues. The dictator will take that into consideration :P


Since starting my gym regime 2 years ago I have no such trouble - I will be doubly blessed with riches.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 13, 2020, 02:49:31 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89712867_3111392945560443_6293025806251720704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_eui2=AeEL5o_8HOXL9CfIUl88cN9WJedeET8ZgqBQsQ95H0H6znPxLw7PLvDrYH8o4kX9mVj1xL8mKOuEBHjDG3y_xxRiTDSFiTl6bqUep8lDOjPfDw&_nc_ohc=YPfgTNO3CuUAX-kEOOK&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=be81e4c647d99915e58ca2b28618b1b4&oe=5E91B45E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2020, 04:03:55 AM
Trump's so vain, he thinks this virus scare is about him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 13, 2020, 04:16:04 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2020, 04:03:55 AM
Trump's so vain, he thinks this virus scare is about him.
I see what you did there. I approve. ^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 13, 2020, 04:20:31 AM
His hair strategically placed above his bald patch.....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 13, 2020, 05:25:59 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 13, 2020, 04:20:31 AM
His hair strategically placed above his bald patch.....

His face it was apricot
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 13, 2020, 05:29:43 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 13, 2020, 05:25:59 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 13, 2020, 04:20:31 AM
His hair strategically placed above his bald patch.....

His face it was apricot

He drove his yacht to Nova Scotia
To see a total eclipse of the Dow
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 13, 2020, 02:38:40 PM
I just want to send my condolences to Syt's relatives that the mainstream media finally took control of their President and convinced him to declare a state of emergency.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 13, 2020, 02:42:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 13, 2020, 02:38:40 PM
I just want to send my condolences to Syt's relatives that the mainstream media finally took control of their President and convinced him to declare a state of emergency.

She just shared this:

QuoteWell here we go! Please pay attention.

Coronavirus Panic
1. Market drop
2. Shut down of amusement parks
3 Shut down of sports
4. Cancellation of rallies
5. Limit attendance of venues in excess of 500

Everyone stays home and afraid to socialize! Do you see how easy we can be controlled?

Now let's get to the facts
39 deaths were 26 died in a nursing home in Washington State! We all know This state is controlled by liberals. The other deaths are in California....Nervous Nancy and Pencil Necks State

Liberals are pissed off that the President shut down all the Borders which is his right to do . He knows this is biological warfare from China. Trust me, We will win . The deep state globalist and New World Order are trying to take down our President

Several manufacturers moved out of China and moved to other countries. We will win this and China will lose . China are friends with the Democrats and a few Republicans especially that POS Romney.
The Godfather
Bikers For 45
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 13, 2020, 02:47:24 PM
Bikers for the Young Pretender?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2020, 02:53:59 PM
So is it biological warfare or is it massively overblown?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 13, 2020, 02:55:04 PM
The New World Order? Damn that is some old school conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 13, 2020, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 13, 2020, 02:53:59 PM
So is it biological warfare or is it massively overblown?  :hmm:

I have to admire so many conspiracy theories mixed together.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 13, 2020, 02:58:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 13, 2020, 02:55:04 PM
The New World Order? Damn that is some old school conspiracy theories.

The post is so bonkers I'm torn between posting WTF and just blocking them. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2020, 09:55:42 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjP0zRMq/corona.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kXMQ813X/Co2.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on March 15, 2020, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2020, 09:55:42 AM



Thanks Syt for your sterling efforts to keep us 'informed', it's appreciated.

Those two are just barking. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 15, 2020, 10:31:37 AM
Syt's sisters and the wider social media have helped me to understand a number of historical conundrums. The causes of WW1 for example, or Hitler's rise to power. Once one realises that about half the population are essentially bonkers and very malleable by malign agents it is perhaps a wonder we have not done even worse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2020, 11:07:16 AM
The weird thing is that they also post how to reduce chances to get infected, and similar common sense stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2020, 01:16:56 PM
368 people died of this virus yesterday in Italy. It is amazing how much power they think the media has.

But the important thing here is that Donald Trump is protected at all costs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 15, 2020, 01:50:26 PM
Récent Quinnipoac poll suggests 83% of à Republicans think Trump is doing a good job.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2020, 01:53:10 PM
Latest polls:

80% of Austrians support the government's measures
66% think the government does a good job
53% are not afraid of the virus
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 15, 2020, 01:58:40 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 13, 2020, 02:42:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 13, 2020, 02:38:40 PM
I just want to send my condolences to Syt's relatives that the mainstream media finally took control of their President and convinced him to declare a state of emergency.

She just shared this:

QuoteWell here we go! Please pay attention.

Coronavirus Panic
1. Market drop
2. Shut down of amusement parks
3 Shut down of sports
4. Cancellation of rallies
5. Limit attendance of venues in excess of 500

Everyone stays home and afraid to socialize! Do you see how easy we can be controlled?

Now let's get to the facts
39 deaths were 26 died in a nursing home in Washington State! We all know This state is controlled by liberals. The other deaths are in California....Nervous Nancy and Pencil Necks State

Liberals are pissed off that the President shut down all the Borders which is his right to do . He knows this is biological warfare from China. Trust me, We will win . The deep state globalist and New World Order are trying to take down our President

Several manufacturers moved out of China and moved to other countries. We will win this and China will lose . China are friends with the Democrats and a few Republicans especially that POS Romney.
The Godfather
Bikers For 45


Why should we pay attention to what a bunch of bikers think?  Most of them can't even vote.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 16, 2020, 09:33:00 AM
I wonder how long it will take before the narrative shifts from blaming liberals for the panic, to blaming liberals for the ineffective measures taken to stop the spread of the disease.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 16, 2020, 09:49:48 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2020, 09:33:00 AM
I wonder how long it will take before the narrative shifts from blaming liberals for the panic, to blaming liberals for the ineffective measures taken to stop the spread of the disease.

The jump will be very easy to make via blaming illegal immigrants for spreading the disease.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 16, 2020, 09:52:48 AM
In the last 24 hours, the President has tweeted about:

Hillary Clinton's emails (can't make this up)
Joe Biden and the 2009 swine flu
Pardoning Michael Flynn
"going after" Chuck Schumer for his comments about Kavanaugh and Gorsuch
How boring the debate was

Luckily there is no global pandemic going on
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 16, 2020, 03:08:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2020, 09:33:00 AM
I wonder how long it will take before the narrative shifts from blaming liberals for the panic, to blaming liberals for the ineffective measures taken to stop the spread of the disease.

Quite a few Republicans now believe that the 2008 crash was caused by Obama.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 16, 2020, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 16, 2020, 03:08:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2020, 09:33:00 AM
I wonder how long it will take before the narrative shifts from blaming liberals for the panic, to blaming liberals for the ineffective measures taken to stop the spread of the disease.

Quite a few Republicans now believe that the 2008 crash was caused by Obama.

Obama was such a terrible president, he caused a crash before he was president and one afterwards. The supposed good times while he was president were just part of his underhanded scheme to cover up how awful he was.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 16, 2020, 08:53:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 15, 2020, 01:58:40 PM
Why should we pay attention to what a bunch of bikers think?  Most of them can't even vote.
they don't vote, but they contribute to the GOP's cause, financially or otherwise ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 16, 2020, 08:54:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2020, 09:33:00 AM
I wonder how long it will take before the narrative shifts from blaming liberals for the panic, to blaming liberals for the ineffective measures taken to stop the spread of the disease.
The answer to that is easy to discover: watch Fox News everyday for the next 6 months and report on us.

I would do it, but I have some door knobs to lick in China, instead. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 16, 2020, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2020, 09:33:00 AM
I wonder how long it will take before the narrative shifts from blaming liberals for the panic, to blaming liberals for the ineffective measures taken to stop the spread of the disease.

Apparently Faux Snooze has directed that their talking heads and anchors are not to use the word "coronavirus" but, instead, the phrase "Chinese coronavirus."  There's a substantial YouTube clip with just an endless stream of Snoozers doing exactly that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 18, 2020, 02:15:31 PM
I think the next line of defense in the libtard hoax narrative is "it's only affecting the blue states."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 18, 2020, 02:16:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 18, 2020, 02:15:31 PM
I think the next line of defense in the libtard hoax narrative is "it's only affecting the blue states."

Syt's relatives have already said that :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 18, 2020, 02:16:46 PM
No shit?  Missed it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 18, 2020, 03:21:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 16, 2020, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2020, 09:33:00 AM
I wonder how long it will take before the narrative shifts from blaming liberals for the panic, to blaming liberals for the ineffective measures taken to stop the spread of the disease.

Apparently Faux Snooze has directed that their talking heads and anchors are not to use the word "coronavirus" but, instead, the phrase "Chinese coronavirus."  There's a substantial YouTube clip with just an endless stream of Snoozers doing exactly that.

I think the whole "Chinese virus" thing is an attempt to change what the media is talking about.

The "fake news" complains about Trump calling it the Chinese virus, saying that itis racist, while Fox News gets to complain about how the mainstream news is being politically correct in the middle of a crisis.  All of which distracts from the shitty job Trump is doing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 18, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Let's stop being politically correct and just call it the "MAGA virus".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on March 18, 2020, 03:23:15 PM
Calling it the "Chinese" virus also helps to shift blame.  "It's not Trumps fault this is out there, it's a Chinese virus after all!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 18, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: PRC on March 18, 2020, 03:23:15 PM
Calling it the "Chinese" virus also helps to shift blame.  "It's not Trumps fault this is out there, it's a Chinese virus after all!"

Yep it is just an attempt by the Trump Administration to avoid what they most fear: accountability.

BLAME THE FOREIGNERS!! is kind of their answer for everything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 19, 2020, 12:32:07 AM
There's plenty of blame to go around.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 19, 2020, 02:08:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 18, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: PRC on March 18, 2020, 03:23:15 PM
Calling it the "Chinese" virus also helps to shift blame.  "It's not Trumps fault this is out there, it's a Chinese virus after all!"

Yep it is just an attempt by the Trump Administration to avoid what they most fear: accountability.

BLAME THE FOREIGNERS!! is kind of their answer for everything.
When in doubt, blame a foreigner.  If there aren't any left, invent one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on March 19, 2020, 07:57:15 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 19, 2020, 02:08:51 AM
When in doubt, blame a foreigner.  If there aren't any left, invent one.
The essence of nationalism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 19, 2020, 12:52:29 PM
Meanwhile we blew by South Korea in number of cases and deaths.

USA! USA!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 19, 2020, 12:53:26 PM
It may have started out as a Chinese virus but it will end up as American as apple pie and the NFL.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: fromtia on March 19, 2020, 01:03:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 18, 2020, 03:32:54 PM

Yep it is just an attempt by the Trump Administration to avoid what they most fear: accountability.


Well, according to Joe Scarborough it'll be effective because Trumps purposeful racism will draw media attention away from the woeful incompetence and ham fisted response. "Look at the horrible orange racist, so horrible!" versus "why doesn't the USA have a functioning testing apparatus and why are we so slow to respond at every stage?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on March 19, 2020, 01:13:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 19, 2020, 12:52:29 PM
Meanwhile we blew by South Korea in number of cases and deaths.

USA! USA!

UK too, lets call it the Transatlantic relationship for 'special' countries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 19, 2020, 01:16:04 PM
Quote from: fromtia on March 19, 2020, 01:03:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 18, 2020, 03:32:54 PM

Yep it is just an attempt by the Trump Administration to avoid what they most fear: accountability.


Well, according to Joe Scarborough it'll be effective because Trumps purposeful racism will draw media attention away from the woeful incompetence and ham fisted response. "Look at the horrible orange racist, so horrible!" versus "why doesn't the USA have a functioning testing apparatus and why are we so slow to respond at every stage?"

Yeah I wish people would not be distracted by that shit. I mean the biggest problem with Trump is not that he has shit character and he seems to exemplify all the worse vices of America in one person, I mean tons of very good administrators and bosses have those qualities. The problem is he is a terrible administrator and President.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: fromtia on March 19, 2020, 02:12:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 19, 2020, 01:16:04 PM

Yeah I wish people would not be distracted by that shit. I mean the biggest problem with Trump is not that he has shit character and he seems to exemplify all the worse vices of America in one person, I mean tons of very good administrators and bosses have those qualities. The problem is he is a terrible administrator and President.

Public Health is a basic function of government, for Trump and his people its absolutely an outside context problem. They are in the Whitehouse to make some money, dole out tax cuts, pack the judiciary and generally yuck it up pwning the libs and the snowflakes. Their supporters, especially older Republicans who we all thought might know better* have been loving every minute of their comedy president. I think we are all in for a really unpleasant lesson in just how incompetent these people are when they have to do actual governing. Its time for the liberal media in the US, and Fox as well to start focusing on elementary competence. Lets drop the "Trumps a bit uncouth" stuff, it's worthless.

The Jared Kushner stories alone are eye watering.

*My ex wifes Step Father is a Toxicologist (Specialises in getting paid by lawyers in carbon monoxide cases) and Trump lover. Well educated. Fox and friends and Hannity fanatic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 19, 2020, 02:25:58 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 19, 2020, 07:57:15 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 19, 2020, 02:08:51 AM
When in doubt, blame a foreigner.  If there aren't any left, invent one.
The essence of nationalism.
You mean like Albertans blaming Quebecers for all their problems?  Yeah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 19, 2020, 02:28:36 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 19, 2020, 02:25:58 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 19, 2020, 07:57:15 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 19, 2020, 02:08:51 AM
When in doubt, blame a foreigner.  If there aren't any left, invent one.
The essence of nationalism.
You mean like Albertans blaming Quebecers for all their problems?  Yeah.

Actually yes...exactly like that.

It is also why I continue to be worried about the EU, really easy for politicians to blame their own failures on the EU.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 19, 2020, 04:50:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 19, 2020, 02:28:36 PM
It is also why I continue to be worried about the EU, really easy for politicians to blame their own failures on the EU.
It's going to be really hard to do for the UK.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 19, 2020, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: fromtia on March 19, 2020, 02:12:48 PMLets drop the "Trumps a bit uncouth" stuff, it's worthless. 

God yes. They might as well stop asking him questions - we all know it's BS anyway - and just start asking questions to people who still hold a shred of sense of accountability.

Every Trump's speech is something every teacher recognizes: the arrogantly self-confident bro who has not done the homework, not done the reading, but cannot help to commit to his usual swagger, even as he is asked to report on stuff well above the effort he put in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 20, 2020, 02:01:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90580795_2794562883990169_8030297080566120448_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=WIXLysVrHa0AX-aENvS&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d84480fa93748a893eb6f37743bfb469&oe=5E98632E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 20, 2020, 02:21:26 AM
The scales have fallen from my eyes!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 20, 2020, 06:31:11 AM
... because Mexicans are as much of a risk to the nation as a pandemic?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 20, 2020, 06:43:52 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 20, 2020, 06:31:11 AM
... because Mexicans are as much of a risk to the nation as a pandemic?  :hmm:

Well, my sisters worried about unvaccinated illegal immigrants bringing measles to the U.S., so ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 20, 2020, 06:45:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 20, 2020, 06:43:52 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 20, 2020, 06:31:11 AM
... because Mexicans are as much of a risk to the nation as a pandemic?  :hmm:

Well, my sisters worried about unvaccinated illegal immigrants bringing measles to the U.S., so ...

So they are not anti-vaxxers. Rejoice!  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on March 22, 2020, 04:42:06 PM
My family doesn't post much on facebook, so I'm spared a lot of this, but this made it out there and it's got me in a rage.

Back story: My cousin and her husband are missionaries in Tanzania. The husband, Jason, had Covid-like symptoms. They tried to leave to go to a hospital in Dar es Salaam, but the local authorities blocked them from leaving.

Quote[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): Our home is now calm tonight... Only God is the hero here.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): The improvements over the last few hours has been exponential. Even Mel has made incredible progress. God is intervening.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): We take turns sitting and standing by the heat until we are sweating very much and can't bare the intensity. And then we trade off.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): This saves lives!!!
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): Forget the 56 thing, just get hot, probably mid 40s. Turn slowly, sweat profusely, breath deeply, until you can bare it. Repeat after 20 mins.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): This virus can't stand heat.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): All the prayers are being answered.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): This info needs to get passed around. I think a woodstove is the biggest household weapon we have against this corona fear.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): 23 hours ago I was almost dead... This is what God has done now.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): Gods perfect love casts out fear. We need to know this virus is serious and evil. But it's biggest force is fear. Cast that out and this virus dissipates in hours.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): We stumbled upon this quite accidently. Last night as I desperately fought for breath to live, I just kept stumbling through the house around the fireplace and kitchen trying to hang on to a measure of breath. The rest were holding me up, crying and praying, (and probably wondering who was going to cart my body out to the coffee field). Finally at 3am I was really fading so wheezed out my goodbyes as I slumped up against the fireplace. I told them no one was to do mouth to mouth on me because I didn't want the infection to increase in their lungs. As I sat there fading out to everyone's amazement I got so hot from the fire at my back that I started to sweat buckets and my lungs suddenly started opening up and oxygen came into my lungs. God intervened.
The rest quickly piled firewood on the fire and as I started to turn infront of the fire the virus started dissipating from my lungs.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): I will mention the whole household came down with symptoms today. And the whole household has made exponential gains in the last eight hours. Most are sleeping peacefully now.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): Now we have to wade through the coming days of bureaucracy and the most certain pandemic,  but folks. We need to run forth knowing that love will always conquer fear.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): Oh yes, this virus literally stinks. Our house reeks like death, dead fish, decay. That's because as we hydrated, sweated, and medicated... This goop came out of our eyes, noses, lungs, pores. Truly terrible stuff.
[03-20, 8:33 PM] Jason & Mel (Son): When you have lived through this there is no middle ground to this virus. No mediocrity.
It's terrible
It's evil
It destroys
And it terrorizes
And yet it is the easiest thing to fix. Mimics the devil pretty much in every aspect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 23, 2020, 01:19:45 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90310215_10218831310471359_8286411241761538048_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=h2ENYl0_DQoAX81BlZk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0b991be9f9fed6e9fddde20bdd3b201e&oe=5E9EA111)

Yeah, no money for unemployed slackers!

Meanwhile, this is Goldman Sachs's forecast for unemployment numbers next week:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETvldYIWsAI4wvJ?format=png&name=small)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-22/top-economists-see-some-echoes-of-depression-in-u-s-sudden-stop
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on March 23, 2020, 01:32:43 AM
That Goldman-Sachs chart should be in the other thread. Millions losing their jobs is a relevant development.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 23, 2020, 03:09:58 AM
I honestly don't understand how people can go from claiming the virus is a hoax created by the media to get at Trump to a very serious disease.  I read 1984, but I didn't think anyone actually switched from "We have always been at war with East Asia" to "We have always been at war with Eurasia" just like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 23, 2020, 03:12:44 AM
The difference there is that it actually is a serious disease.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 23, 2020, 03:24:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 23, 2020, 03:09:58 AM
I honestly don't understand how people can go from claiming the virus is a hoax created by the media to get at Trump to a very serious disease.  I read 1984, but I didn't think anyone actually switched from "We have always been at war with East Asia" to "We have always been at war with Eurasia" just like that.

It was a famous lesson of early 20th century propaganda, which Goebbels took to heart, especially at the moment of the German-Soviet Pact. You just never skip a beat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 23, 2020, 04:53:28 AM
Sad to say but I'm not surprised by this. This last 4 years I've seen it a lot. As soon as you show up one set of nonsense for what it is they just switch tack. It's about winning, not truth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 23, 2020, 10:51:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91025551_1168922289944919_7581168334628978688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=st4tzrImwGAAX-37rpq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=65661c9df1d5338f979351d5c06031c0&oe=5EA0194B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 23, 2020, 11:05:00 AM
Gaslighting going into overdrive, it seems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 23, 2020, 10:51:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91025551_1168922289944919_7581168334628978688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=st4tzrImwGAAX-37rpq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=65661c9df1d5338f979351d5c06031c0&oe=5EA0194B)

So earlier they were complaining Democrats wanted to give people money, now they complain they don't want to give people money.

Oh and three Republicans and one Democrat dumped their stocks and now it seems only Democrats did it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 23, 2020, 11:15:59 AM
Presumably they laugh nefariously as they colaspe the Economy whilst chugging their covfefes  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 23, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
I think the Chinese flag in the background is a nice "subtle" touch.

It's such a contrast from Austria where all parties have come together to carry the current situation. The opposition criticizes a few things, but also point out that now is not the time to bicker and fight. The measures so far have all been enacted unanimously.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 23, 2020, 12:01:05 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 23, 2020, 03:24:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 23, 2020, 03:09:58 AM
I honestly don't understand how people can go from claiming the virus is a hoax created by the media to get at Trump to a very serious disease.  I read 1984, but I didn't think anyone actually switched from "We have always been at war with East Asia" to "We have always been at war with Eurasia" just like that.

It was a famous lesson of early 20th century propaganda, which Goebbels took to heart, especially at the moment of the German-Soviet Pact. You just never skip a beat.


I thought we were more sophisticated than that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 23, 2020, 01:22:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 23, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Oh and three Republicans and one Democrat dumped their stocks and now it seems only Democrats did it.

And the most prominent of those four, and the only one who is likely guilty, is a Republican. Convenient...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 24, 2020, 08:21:11 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0F8pM4R/Capture-RU.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sgV4GKG6/Capture-CH.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on March 24, 2020, 08:57:53 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2020, 08:21:11 AM

....
snip


Wow, it's like the Kremlin have implanted a direct IV for their propaganda into vulnerable Americans/Westerners.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 24, 2020, 09:23:26 AM
I wonder what the reality of the Russia photo is.

Curious to see these people heralding communism given what we know about them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 24, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
A lot of the stuff on my sisters' timelines at the moment is about the plight of the truckers in these days, and that hotels, restaurants etc. should offer them free stuff for the services they provide. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 24, 2020, 04:16:59 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
A lot of the stuff on my sisters' timelines at the moment is about the plight of the truckers in these days, and that hotels, restaurants etc. should offer them free stuff for the services they provide. :unsure:

Not an insane take.  Not sure I agree (though truckers are important right now), but not completely crazy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 24, 2020, 04:18:10 PM
So they've finally seen the light and become progressives?
Victory! ✌️
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2020, 04:19:33 PM
@Beeb: I think the point is the evolution from crazy mad hoaxer to born again virus justice warrior.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 24, 2020, 04:30:41 PM
I suspect that it will go back to being a hoax when Trump states that we won't be isolating anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 24, 2020, 04:32:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2020, 04:19:33 PM
@Beeb: I think the point is the evolution from crazy mad hoaxer to born again virus justice warrior.

It's not inconsistent.  The reason things are so hard on truckers is because all of this is due to a hoax.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 24, 2020, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
A lot of the stuff on my sisters' timelines at the moment is about the plight of the truckers in these days, and that hotels, restaurants etc. should offer them free stuff for the services they provide. :unsure:

Maybe they should get a Universal Basic Income so they can make it through times like this :hmm:

I mean I do hope businesses ban together with their vital partners and they can all help each other get through this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 24, 2020, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 24, 2020, 04:32:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2020, 04:19:33 PM
@Beeb: I think the point is the evolution from crazy mad hoaxer to born again virus justice warrior.

It's not inconsistent.  The reason things are so hard on truckers is because all of this is due to a hoax.

I thought the issue is that suddenly they want to help workers through tough times instead of demanding they stop being snowflakes and tough it out or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on March 24, 2020, 06:06:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 24, 2020, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
A lot of the stuff on my sisters' timelines at the moment is about the plight of the truckers in these days, and that hotels, restaurants etc. should offer them free stuff for the services they provide. :unsure:

Maybe they should get a Universal Basic Income so they can make it through times like this :hmm:

I think it's a different problem; transport (or at least rail transport, which I'm more familiar with) is operating at capacity.  Freight carriers are putting themselves at risk so that you can get essential goods.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2020, 08:00:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 24, 2020, 04:32:56 PM
It's not inconsistent.  The reason things are so hard on truckers is because all of this is due to a hoax.

1. They've given up on the IT"S A HOAX memes.
2. There was that interrmediate position of GOD BLESS TRUMP FOR TRYING TO CUT PAYROLL TAXES.

Looks me like they're pivoting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on March 24, 2020, 08:09:41 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 24, 2020, 06:06:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 24, 2020, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
A lot of the stuff on my sisters' timelines at the moment is about the plight of the truckers in these days, and that hotels, restaurants etc. should offer them free stuff for the services they provide. :unsure:

Maybe they should get a Universal Basic Income so they can make it through times like this :hmm:

I think it's a different problem; transport (or at least rail transport, which I'm more familiar with) is operating at capacity.  Freight carriers are putting themselves at risk so that you can get essential goods.

Truck drivers are a key point of weakness in the UK, heard a radio documentary that said their average is is 56 years and lots have health issues.
The tanker drivers who transport milk are significantly older still.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 24, 2020, 09:34:37 PM
Haven't you people understood yet that there is no logic required?  It really doesn't matter whether today's reality jibes in any way with yesterday's reality, no one cares.  Tomorrow's reality will be what it needs to be, let's not get all hung up on what today's reality is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2020, 01:12:50 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2020, 09:34:37 PM
Haven't you people understood yet that there is no logic required?  It really doesn't matter whether today's reality jibes in any way with yesterday's reality, no one cares.  Tomorrow's reality will be what it needs to be, let's not get all hung up on what today's reality is.

"No logic required" is really overstating things.  They are displaying basic logic in things like internal inconsistency and hidden agendas.  It's rather that their that their logic is muddled, or based on false assumptions, or deployed against straw men.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 25, 2020, 03:25:35 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2020, 09:34:37 PM
Haven't you people understood yet that there is no logic required?  It really doesn't matter whether today's reality jibes in any way with yesterday's reality, no one cares.  Tomorrow's reality will be what it needs to be, let's not get all hung up on what today's reality is.

:yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 25, 2020, 03:42:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
A lot of the stuff on my sisters' timelines at the moment is about the plight of the truckers in these days, and that hotels, restaurants etc. should offer them free stuff for the services they provide. :unsure:

I'm not sure about the free stuff but we need to think of our truckers as key workers and do what we can to keep them healthy and on the road. Food supplies could be at risk if too many truckers are ill.

I'm agreeing with your sisters; only been in lockdown a few days, am I losing it already  :hmm: ?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Legbiter on March 25, 2020, 03:51:06 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 25, 2020, 03:42:50 AMI'm agreeing with your sisters; only been in lockdown a few days, am I losing it already  :hmm: ?

Yeah we will all be much more aware of the logistics and people involved in keeping things running by the end of this pestilence. The checkout person at your local grocery store faces the pandemic every day for not that much money for instance. :hmm:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 25, 2020, 03:55:31 AM
I do think that the pandemic is a massive rebuke to our current arrangements; there may be a massive leftward swing in future years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 25, 2020, 03:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 25, 2020, 03:42:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
A lot of the stuff on my sisters' timelines at the moment is about the plight of the truckers in these days, and that hotels, restaurants etc. should offer them free stuff for the services they provide. :unsure:

I'm not sure about the free stuff but we need to think of our truckers as key workers and do what we can to keep them healthy and on the road. Food supplies could be at risk if too many truckers are ill.

I'm agreeing with your sisters; only been in lockdown a few days, am I losing it already  :hmm: ?

I think Syt's point there is that his sister is usually rabidly against any kind of "handout"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 25, 2020, 05:06:29 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 25, 2020, 03:55:31 AM
I do think that the pandemic is a massive rebuke to our current arrangements; there may be a massive leftward swing in future years.

Let's hope.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 25, 2020, 06:27:48 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 25, 2020, 03:57:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 25, 2020, 03:42:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
A lot of the stuff on my sisters' timelines at the moment is about the plight of the truckers in these days, and that hotels, restaurants etc. should offer them free stuff for the services they provide. :unsure:

I'm not sure about the free stuff but we need to think of our truckers as key workers and do what we can to keep them healthy and on the road. Food supplies could be at risk if too many truckers are ill.

I'm agreeing with your sisters; only been in lockdown a few days, am I losing it already  :hmm: ?

I think Syt's point there is that his sister is usually rabidly against any kind of "handout"

Except for the military, who deserves every single handout imaginable.  :P


Over here truckers are amongst the groups that are getting recognition/thanks, you see many pieces about roadside bars/restaurants that cater to them for free these days. And it's quite correct that they get this recognition, if logistics failed the lives of those quarantined in the cities would be nightmare territory.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2020, 06:41:39 AM
I hope this crisis will lead to a reevaluation of what jobs are and aren't critical for society, and what goods and services are really necessary.

Probably won't happen once people can go to the pub again and sports are back on TV, but it's a nice thought.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2020, 06:43:27 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90902649_3227810900610579_5023348003704930304_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=wmCAEbLyjXMAX90Of51&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dc3a01f02c3b75c86e65ed617fc11c15&oe=5E9FB181)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90521635_687354138673330_7781127774114152448_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=ypdnwDyijgcAX-w_35w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=708b1f14bfc69982879235420d307066&oe=5E9FA4F3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 25, 2020, 06:44:41 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 25, 2020, 03:55:31 AM
I do think that the pandemic is a massive rebuke to our current arrangements; there may be a massive leftward swing in future years.

Hopefully not the no-border twitter leftist idiots then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 25, 2020, 06:51:36 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90933425_10158071325825119_3938922143613452288_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=0IhpmI4TPlkAX_BttHC&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=8bf0a25d0a4e6dc8d3c9d019c3a7d9f9&oe=5EA26F46)

Movie recommendation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on March 25, 2020, 07:32:14 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 25, 2020, 06:41:39 AM
I hope this crisis will lead to a reevaluation of what jobs are and aren't critical for society, and what goods and services are really necessary.

Probably won't happen once people can go to the pub again and sports are back on TV, but it's a nice thought.

Yes and unfortunately yes also.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2020, 08:20:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91086854_115148756781048_1588485743095840768_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=vqHlmRgCj7UAX9Sy-gG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=985af3d7beedbfa3e2b4f492c306e6b8&oe=5E9FC1C9)

Duque, can you confirm?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 03:41:07 PM
Germans really shouldn't be sharing tweets from Alt-Right assholes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 25, 2020, 04:19:35 PM
It's Breitbart--you can assume it's fake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on March 25, 2020, 04:48:14 PM
What he said
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 25, 2020, 04:51:06 PM
It's unfortunately worse than that. It's got a kernel of truth in it, twisted in service of a hateful ideology. Shelter-in-home orders have been difficult to enforce, and in some banlieues, it's taken the guise of the usual resistance to police controls.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2020, 04:59:40 PM
Sometimes you need to be skeptical about your skepticism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 07:41:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2020, 04:59:40 PM
Sometimes you need to be skeptical about your skepticism.


So you think the neo-Nazi has a point?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2020, 07:46:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 07:41:19 PM
So you think the neo-Nazi has a point?

Why did you ask this to me, and not Ucks?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 25, 2020, 09:19:46 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2020, 07:46:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 07:41:19 PM
So you think the neo-Nazi has a point?

Why did you ask this to me, and not Ucks?

Drink twice, everybody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 10:01:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2020, 07:46:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 07:41:19 PM
So you think the neo-Nazi has a point?

Why did you ask this to me, and not Ucks?


Cause I don't know which one is Ucks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2020, 10:03:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 10:01:28 PM
Cause I don't know which one is Ucks.

Why did you ask that question to me, and not the poster who posted just before me?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 11:23:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2020, 10:03:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 10:01:28 PM
Cause I don't know which one is Ucks.

Why did you ask that question to me, and not the poster who posted just before me?


Because I thought you were telling him not to be so skeptical of the Watson tweet.  I admit, I wasn't sure, so that's why I asked.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 25, 2020, 11:50:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 25, 2020, 11:23:45 PM
Because I thought you were telling him not to be so skeptical of the Watson tweet.  I admit, I wasn't sure, so that's why I asked.

You answered my question, more or less, so I'll answer yours.

I have no clue if this guy is a neo-Nazi.  Never heard of him before.

If by his point you mean that immigrants are out on the streets disregarding the lock down, yes I do, on the basis of what Ucks (he's the poster who posted just before me) posted.

If by his point you mean is it lunacy, then yes, if the facts are true as reported it is lunacy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 26, 2020, 12:03:44 AM
Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 26, 2020, 02:56:02 AM
Don't they see the inconsistency in the police operating in supposed no go zones? 🤔
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 26, 2020, 05:10:51 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 25, 2020, 04:51:06 PM
It's unfortunately worse than that. It's got a kernel of truth in it, twisted in service of a hateful ideology. Shelter-in-home orders have been difficult to enforce, and in some banlieues, it's taken the guise of the usual resistance to police controls.

Referenced by French media. Even some market zones in Paris centre with a strong immigrant population had trouble enforcing it. No rioting as in those banlieues though.
So there is trouble in the banlieues, it's more than a kernel of truth, say half-truth or more, but not (yet) the apocalyptic version depicted.

According to the generally well-informed left-wing satyrical Canard Enchaîné, now quoted by the right and far-right, government has decided to not press too much the lockdown over there, after early opposed attempts. Lack of personnel, due to sickness, courts to a standstill due to lockout etc. Curfews are left to local authorities, interior minister washing its hands (implied by the article).
Police all over the place does not help illegal drug dealing as a matter of fact, to give an example. Article ends by saying drug pushers have more masks than the police, and do home deliveries...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fdesouche.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F03%2FET8uXe2WsAAbaV_.jpg&hash=7ea609eca4ddf17c31565fd2705370087cfa0274)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on March 26, 2020, 07:05:34 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 26, 2020, 05:10:51 AMArticle ends by saying drug pushers have more masks than the police, and do home deliveries...

Improvise, adapt, overcome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 29, 2020, 04:44:17 PM
The memesters seem to be slacking off.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2020, 01:29:32 AM
So between all the "stay at home", "wash your hands", "take Covid19 serious," "be nice to nurses/store clerks/truckers" posts, this one was wedged in:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91737491_10216788740336641_1413325857094631424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=Tfr9Qffag6oAX9tHjfJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a378efe8cf9bf089e9e20ccb2eb8e866&oe=5EA6BFED)

I'm starting to think my sisters might not think too hard about what they post to their wall ...  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 30, 2020, 01:33:11 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 30, 2020, 01:29:32 AM
I'm starting to think my sisters might not think too hard about what they post to their wall ...  :hmm:
starting?  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 30, 2020, 02:05:58 AM
It's interesting that the far right are so big on corona denialism. You'd think they'd be throwing themselves wholeheartedly into bigging it up as an extinction level event unless drastic action is taken.
It gives them so much of what they want. Hate for China, massively restricted international travel, etc...
If I was of a brexity disposition I'd be loving this and hoping it continues after the crisis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 30, 2020, 02:51:56 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 30, 2020, 02:05:58 AM
It's interesting that the far right are so big on corona denialism. You'd think they'd be throwing themselves wholeheartedly into bigging it up as an extinction level event unless drastic action is taken.
It gives them so much of what they want. Hate for China, massively restricted international travel, etc...
If I was of a brexity disposition I'd be loving this and hoping it continues after the crisis.

Yeah look at Hungary, they are wasting no time giving Orban indefinite dictatorial powers because of 400 confirmed cases as of today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 30, 2020, 04:37:05 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 30, 2020, 02:05:58 AM
It's interesting that the far right are so big on corona denialism. You'd think they'd be throwing themselves wholeheartedly into bigging it up as an extinction level event unless drastic action is taken.
It gives them so much of what they want. Hate for China, massively restricted international travel, etc...
If I was of a brexity disposition I'd be loving this and hoping it continues after the crisis.

It's a US far-right attitude I guess.
The sovereignists here (more moderate) are in full "told you so" mode. Le Pen has no links with China, so no problem for her. This would have problematic were it Russia.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on March 30, 2020, 04:48:28 AM
I've gotta say, that is rather disappointing, if unsurprising, that the political tribalism/divide pre-virus simply absorbed the Covid crisis into itself (from both the right and left) like the Borg.

We could probably be invaded by Martians at this point, and we'd still have a huge divide on the issue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 30, 2020, 05:52:24 AM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91368163_552443322333286_1071002008527306752_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=Lho2M1W10I4AX-okeU1&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=73f82169a9b32a1a071d85b2250fbc8e&oe=5EA91561)

After lockdown, time for justice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2020, 06:08:33 AM
Kill the Chinese? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: bogh on March 30, 2020, 07:51:20 AM
Wait, what? Who should be publicly executed after the confinement ends?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 30, 2020, 07:53:05 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2020, 06:08:33 AM
Kill the Chinese? :unsure:

Or anyone who looks Chinese?   :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 30, 2020, 08:30:30 AM
Quote from: bogh on March 30, 2020, 07:51:20 AM
Wait, what? Who should be publicly executed after the confinement ends?

Late 18th century aristocrats and royalty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 30, 2020, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 30, 2020, 08:30:30 AM
Quote from: bogh on March 30, 2020, 07:51:20 AM
Wait, what? Who should be publicly executed after the confinement ends?

Late 18th century aristocrats and royalty.

Not so subtle metaphor for decapitating the Head of State and ministers, I'd wager.
Namely the former Health Minister who infamously said at the end of January that COVID-19 would not spread. Based on faulty, lacunar informations and/or to tranquilize the populace, take your pick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 31, 2020, 01:26:30 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RGxS4BD/hate.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 31, 2020, 06:53:47 AM
Way to uncover that sinister criminal conspiracy there libertytreenews.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 31, 2020, 10:31:07 AM
I'd be interested in seeing a count of the amount of anti-Trump folks who have said similar about people vs. pro-Trump folks...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 31, 2020, 10:43:11 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 31, 2020, 10:31:07 AM
I'd be interested in seeing a count of the amount of anti-Trump folks who have said similar about people vs. pro-Trump folks...

What good would that do?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 31, 2020, 10:46:19 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 31, 2020, 10:43:11 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 31, 2020, 10:31:07 AM
I'd be interested in seeing a count of the amount of anti-Trump folks who have said similar about people vs. pro-Trump folks...

What good would that do?
Nothing of course. They'd just find some new nonsense to prove teh libs are evil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on March 31, 2020, 10:56:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 31, 2020, 06:53:47 AM
Way to uncover that sinister criminal conspiracy there libertytreenews.

It is a good website name for those who are out for blood.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 03, 2020, 01:09:58 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91699646_10220590800777227_1065392807008534528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=sjCdCC7HGgUAX_Q1JSg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=af1afb39d65968760e2d287c2691d0c8&oe=5EAE5281)


This one is NOT from my sister, but from the comment thread to the image above:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91879612_10222621796082353_956875957149368320_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_ohc=n9p5Zu9HeLoAX98ienY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c3b5ac4fc9a271bae765ce480082af04&oe=5EADC856)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 03, 2020, 01:12:33 AM
That second boy has got skills.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 03, 2020, 09:58:00 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91415446_795385967619200_3688281093603065856_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=-z5t5p9Uz7YAX8JHJ_z&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a69e8e315ce33c62ee04d96dd6313f8b&oe=5EAAFE58)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 03, 2020, 10:02:52 AM
Did he bring back all the manufacturing and protect our borders? Did he take care of America?

I don't see much evidence of success :unsure: all the problems that existed before Trump still existed as the pandemic hit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 03, 2020, 10:10:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 03, 2020, 10:02:52 AM
Did he bring back all the manufacturing and protect our borders? Did he take care of America?

I don't see much evidence of success :unsure: all the problems that existed before Trump still existed as the pandemic hit.

He wanted to put the mean dumbocrats prevented him. :secret:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 03, 2020, 11:47:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 03, 2020, 10:02:52 AM
Did he bring back all the manufacturing and protect our borders? Did he take care of America?

I don't see much evidence of success :unsure: all the problems that existed before Trump still existed as the pandemic hit.

The coronavirus caravan got through.

But he did get a wall up.  There is an enormous unbreachable wall of stupidity protecting American citizens from reality.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 04, 2020, 01:19:05 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 03, 2020, 11:47:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 03, 2020, 10:02:52 AM
Did he bring back all the manufacturing and protect our borders? Did he take care of America?

I don't see much evidence of success :unsure: all the problems that existed before Trump still existed as the pandemic hit.

The coronavirus caravan got through.

But he did get a wall up.  There is an enormous unbreachable wall of stupidity protecting American citizens from reality.
See, that's the problem, only one side of the country is protected by a wall.  Had the Democrats not tried to impeach him, he would have built walls all around the US and the virus would never have reached you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 04, 2020, 08:40:48 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91912350_10158952146408968_5085381002340073472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=aKwbAM_6WQwAX_LHN1v&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=59fdc4fd38a9a008f5ab6c4b359336e2&oe=5EAE9668)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 05, 2020, 01:21:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91591014_121729429456314_235223616361332736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=Gtu01xj-Q2QAX9vyqfd&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c87cfa94af5a30be0802b576117263d7&oe=5EAF0E6E)

The media is keeping the truth from you!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 05, 2020, 02:22:23 AM
Terrorism isn't as sexy as it was a couple months ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 05, 2020, 02:45:54 AM
She's been in the news multiple times since then here in the UK. I've only heard though that killer was a woman in her 30s and currently being held in a psych ward.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 05, 2020, 03:06:32 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2020, 02:45:54 AM
She's been in the news multiple times since then here in the UK. I've only heard though that killer was a woman in her 30s and currently being held in a psych ward.

You clearly overlook that a crime is much more important and horrible to some people if committed by a non-white, non-Christian person. And vice versa. My sisters didn't share any posts/memes about the immigrants killed recently by a white supremacist in Hanau, Germany.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on April 05, 2020, 04:05:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2020, 03:06:32 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2020, 02:45:54 AM
She's been in the news multiple times since then here in the UK. I've only heard though that killer was a woman in her 30s and currently being held in a psych ward.

You clearly overlook that a crime is much more important and horrible to some people if committed by a non-white, non-Christian person. And vice versa. My sisters didn't share any posts/memes about the immigrants killed recently by a white supremacist in Hanau, Germany.

I still haven't seen anything (beyond that image) that says she was killed by a non-white, non-Christian person.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 05, 2020, 05:35:33 AM
1. That's because THEY(TM) don't want you to know.
2. Are you questioning the sources of the "Imam of Peace"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 05, 2020, 03:33:00 PM
The "Imam of Peace" who couldn't even be bothered to find out her name before spewing his hate?

Her name was Emily Jones.  She was stabbed in Bolton, the town where the park was located.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 05, 2020, 03:41:19 PM
The one good thing about Facebook is that I less ashamed of not graduating college.  I can look at a few posts and think "Well, I'm not as stupid is this guy"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 05, 2020, 03:43:11 PM
There was no travel ban from China.  That is a lie.  There were some restrictions but tens of thousands were still permitted to enter, in many cases without effective screening. The NYT finally covered this story properly in today's edition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on April 07, 2020, 04:24:16 PM
(https://i.redd.it/rkpnliu4pfr41.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on April 07, 2020, 04:26:59 PM
 :lmfao: The Democrats' secret plan to make America healthier! Foiled again!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 07, 2020, 04:29:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2020, 01:21:04 AM
[img]https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91591014_121729429456314_235223616361332736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=Gtu01xj-Q2QAX9vyqfd&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c87cfa94af5a30be0802b576117263d7&oe=5EAF0E6E/img]

The media is keeping the truth from you!

Always weird that they have this idea the media wouldn't mention it if the killer is brown rather than give it the  extra attention  they do
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 07, 2020, 05:32:05 PM
Quote from: PRC on April 07, 2020, 04:24:16 PM
(https://i.redd.it/rkpnliu4pfr41.jpg)

How profoundly depressing. Who is the old guy supposed to be? Thr Jews?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 07, 2020, 05:33:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 07, 2020, 05:32:05 PM
How profoundly depressing. Who is the old guy supposed to be? Thr Jews?

He has a Sorosian tint.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 08, 2020, 05:54:17 AM
This has to be one of the least sensible things posted in this thread and that is saying a LOT.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 08, 2020, 05:59:46 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 08, 2020, 05:54:17 AM
This has to be one of the least sensible things posted in this thread and that is saying a LOT.

Yes mandatory vaccine is probably not as far off as indicated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 11, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
From Twitter:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVSCnVTUwAI4lXd?format=jpg&name=small)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 11, 2020, 04:25:23 PM
So true.

I never understood the Benghazi thing. It just doesnt make sense.
But if the trumpys keep spending their energy on Clinton then so much the better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on April 11, 2020, 05:34:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 07, 2020, 05:32:05 PM
Quote from: PRC on April 07, 2020, 04:24:16 PM
(https://i.redd.it/rkpnliu4pfr41.jpg)

How profoundly depressing. Who is the old guy supposed to be? Thr Jews?

Bill Gates? It looks like the RFID chip vaccine conspiracy (there's a barcode rather than a chip on the syringe, but I doubt the author or its audience can spot the difference).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 14, 2020, 01:14:15 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93118619_2373847272914656_7249693530501677056_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=7aQkZxIGu3YAX9_PaJf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0ed68ec496d50760c2a533529498465e&oe=5EBBCD6B)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92572627_3919246784759852_8720902039074242560_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ASQMLE7lx9AAX-xObmo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0a5a33ab04ce20476c7b90c5c372f062&oe=5EBB77F4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 14, 2020, 01:33:07 AM
There should be no Face Masks used to prevent The Hoax unless they are Manufactured in the US.

#2 shows the scientific insight that has led to climate denying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 14, 2020, 11:05:32 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92718651_564247477544106_7923426306987917312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FIdqwFzZH2kAX8ZS8fp&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1ebd51027506c47f12b0a2bac0c9fb01&oe=5EBB4CE3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 14, 2020, 01:07:01 PM
Outrageous that the House failed to subpoena an overseas microscopic organic structure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 15, 2020, 01:03:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93223172_1983721628427746_7554578733265321984_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=977oeUoug6IAX_AnUZQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c054eff258f5ac77604f842dac78984c&oe=5EBD168C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on April 15, 2020, 01:19:45 AM
Yes it is supposed to be Gates. The new bogeyman of the wackos. Both left and right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 15, 2020, 01:23:20 AM
Apparently the British wavkos these days are moaning about Bob Geldoff. Typical he only cares about foreign countries, where is live aid for the nhs stuff.
Fascinating how these pound shop hitlers claim to care about the nhs despite it being so contrary to their other beliefs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 15, 2020, 02:09:27 PM
QuoteI'm not posting this for debate. I don't need any comments. Unfriend me if you must. Just please consider this...when you think the President is a jerk...

The bottom line has been that Trump IS a jerk. He's crude, he bloviates, he gets his feelings hurt and he's a hot head. And he should stay off Twitter, but this is the only way he can fight back against the FAKE NEWS

Let me tell you what else he is. He is a guy that demands performance. He is a guy that asks lots of questions. The questions he asks aren't cloaked in fancy phrases, they are "why the hell...." questions.

For decades the health industry has thrown away billions of face masks after one use. Trump asks, "Why the hell are we throwing them away? Why not sterilize them and use them numerous times?" He's the guy that gets hospital ships readied in one week, when it would have taken a bureaucrat weeks or months to get it done. He's the guy that gets temporary hospitals built in three days. He's the guy that gets industries to build ventilators and face masks in a business that's highly regulated by agencies that move like sloths.

He's the guy that asks why we aren't using drugs that might work on people that are dying; what the hell do we have to lose? In spite of all the naysayers. He's the guy that shut down travel from China, when the liberals and the media were screaming xenophobia and racist. Now they are asking why didn't he react sooner? He's the guy that ran on securing the border in the face of a screaming press and media. When he shut down borders in the midst of the coronavirus virus they were up in arms over such a draconian move. Then the rest of the world followed suit all over, including the European Union between member countries.

Has he made mistakes, yep. Everyone I know would have. All of these experts wouldn't have done any better. Trump is working harder than I've ever seen a President work. He isn't hiding in his office, he's out front every day.

Take for instance, all the shortages of PPE's and ventilators. I'm unaware of anything that prevented all of these governors from ordering all the PPE and ventilators for emergency purposes over the last two years. And yet, it is Trump's fault that they didn't.

He's balanced his approach and listened to the experts, when his distractors said he wouldn't and couldn't. When he offers hope, he's lying and when he's straight forward, he should be hopeful. It's a no win, but he is not deterred by all of that BS coming from the press and the liberals.

I'll take this kind of leadership over a nice guy that can make eloquent speeches.

He is my President and like it or not if you live in the USA and you here legally he is your President too.

Copy and paste if you agree.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91635649_271120677232927_4369775889605459968_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=f1UTlymIaC4AX9Pb_xq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6f1dd57f583ffcda3f8fa15cc4b42163&oe=5EBBF09F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 15, 2020, 02:59:44 PM
Well it is good to hear them start making excuses for him. At least that means they notice his fuckups.

QuoteHe is my President and like it or not if you live in the USA and you here legally he is your President too.

I mean...sure. And?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on April 15, 2020, 03:10:29 PM
They want you to obey.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on April 15, 2020, 03:19:21 PM
But only if the President is white.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 15, 2020, 04:45:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2020, 02:59:44 PM
Well it is good to hear them start making excuses for him. At least that means they notice his fuckups.

No it is not good at all. It is far more corrosive.
It feeds into a narrative that people who aren't paying close attention to details - ie.most people - could find superficially plausible - the Trump is an asshole and acts inappropriately but he gets things done.

The reality is that he doesn't get things done and has severely degraded the ability of the federal government to get things done and function properly.  His incompetence and vandalization of national capabilities is a far worse sin than his severe personality deficits.

Every item mentioned in the post above is BS propaganda.  The reason why the industry doesn't sterilize N95 masks should be obvious.  Donald Trump didn't get  hospital beds ready - the people that did that work in departments he tried to cut. Trump waited 2 months blathering about hoaxes before he even said the word ventilator while states desperately tried to acquire them. His China travel ban was not a ban and incompetently carried out.  There is a lot to lose "trying out" drugs with potentially severe side effects on the idea they might work - on the same theory, cocaine might suppress COVID-19 (you never know?) so lets all start freebasing - can't hurt!

Washington state begged back in January to relax the regs on test so they could use the WHO tests (which worked) as opposed to the approved ones (which didn't exist and then didn't work) Trump did nothing.

It's a joke to say he listens to experts.  The only way to get him to listen is to package your advice so it is phrased as a WIN!!!! politically and lather it up with lots of obsequious praise.  Of course he never read the Navarro memo, it was written down with words.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 15, 2020, 05:46:15 PM
While casually surfing MSN.ca, I came accross some trivia "facts" on the Titanic.  One of the slides talked about how the Titanic was not really the Titanic, but the Olympic and it was sunk as an insurance scam and to kill people opposed to the idea of the Federal reserve (two decades before it was ever mentionned as a political project, some clairvoyance here ;) ), so I went to check the "source" and found myself redirected to Reddit /r/conspiracy.

And I spent about half an hour reading through this.  It felt like I was magically transported on the Facebook page of one of Syt's sister :P  Damn.  And everynow and then, some poor schmuck trying to make sense of these things, trying to instill reason in the conspiracies with some facts...  Some brave souls out there.

Anyway.  If you have nothing better to do during your confinement, check it out, it's the Twilight Zone out there.  And these people vote...  That's scary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 16, 2020, 01:43:38 AM
https://www.theblaze.com/news/while-millions-are-jobless-amid-covid-19-millionaire-nancy-pelosi-shows-off-freezer-full-of-ice-cream-that-gets-her-through-these-trying-times?utm_content=buffer0640f&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-theblaze&fbclid=IwAR3cFs1Z35XoYPoLlRwr0fnXkRRkE4fBR0zwyXGp93rgxqdpmuvlBlyirPQ

QuoteWhile millions are jobless amid COVID-19, millionaire Nancy Pelosi shows off freezer full of ice cream that gets her through 'these trying times'

While millions of Americans have lost their jobs in a matter of weeks amid widespread, forced business closures meant to flatten the coronavirus curve, wealthy Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi found the time to chat via video conferencing with TV host James Corden about — wait for it — her sweet tooth.

Aww, ain't she sweet?

The host of "The Late Late Show With James Corden" asked Pelosi to do a show and tell from her home, and the multimillionaire California politician was only too happy to share a view of her basket of chocolate:

(https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yMjkzNjIxMy9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTYxOTQ2MDEyOX0._MBqGiQTOQRTwTHpPmb8CLh5LJ5-O2S2ov-C62txqRM/img.jpg?width=980)

But Corden really got excited after Pelosi — standing in front of very expensive-looking refrigerators — opened up her freezer drawer and showed that it was full of freshly stocked ice cream.

(https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yMjkzNjIxNi9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTYxMzgxMTUwNX0.Qp26fk8tFAtMki2EE2rRCA1_ov4vXL5bZd8nX6ZhkYA/img.jpg?width=980)

"I don't know what I would've done if ice cream were not invented," Pelosi remarked.

Here comes the gut-punch line

One might think she'd just leave the short chat alone at its conclusion, but the clip of her exchange with Corden showed up on Madame Speaker's Twitter account — along with the following incredulous caption: "We all have found our ways to keep our spirits up during these trying times. Mine just happens to fill up my freezer."

"Trying times"? Really?

Pelosi is in no danger of losing her job amid the coronavirus shutdown — at least not until after November's election. But even then, what would she have to worry about? PolitiFact noted that Pelosi's net worth shared with her business tycoon husband is no lower than $34 million and could be as high as $160 million.

How did others react?

Journalist Glenn Greenwald called Pelosi's video-op "tone deaf" and remarked that the "two huge refrigerators by themselves cost more than many people make in a year."


Fortunately, Republican politicians are models of decorum and modesty these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 16, 2020, 01:48:05 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 15, 2020, 04:45:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2020, 02:59:44 PM
Well it is good to hear them start making excuses for him. At least that means they notice his fuckups.

No it is not good at all. It is far more corrosive.
It feeds into a narrative that people who aren't paying close attention to details - ie.most people - could find superficially plausible - the Trump is an asshole and acts inappropriately but he gets things done.

The reality is that he doesn't get things done and has severely degraded the ability of the federal government to get things done and function properly.  His incompetence and vandalization of national capabilities is a far worse sin than his severe personality deficits.

Every item mentioned in the post above is BS propaganda.  The reason why the industry doesn't sterilize N95 masks should be obvious.  Donald Trump didn't get  hospital beds ready - the people that did that work in departments he tried to cut. Trump waited 2 months blathering about hoaxes before he even said the word ventilator while states desperately tried to acquire them. His China travel ban was not a ban and incompetently carried out.  There is a lot to lose "trying out" drugs with potentially severe side effects on the idea they might work - on the same theory, cocaine might suppress COVID-19 (you never know?) so lets all start freebasing - can't hurt!

Washington state begged back in January to relax the regs on test so they could use the WHO tests (which worked) as opposed to the approved ones (which didn't exist and then didn't work) Trump did nothing.

It's a joke to say he listens to experts.  The only way to get him to listen is to package your advice so it is phrased as a WIN!!!! politically and lather it up with lots of obsequious praise.  Of course he never read the Navarro memo, it was written down with words.

Trump's approach reminds me of this Simpsons classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POB3Dr0uonc

(except without the happy end)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on April 16, 2020, 06:19:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 16, 2020, 01:43:38 AM
https://www.theblaze.com/news/while-millions-are-jobless-amid-covid-19-millionaire-nancy-pelosi-shows-off-freezer-full-of-ice-cream-that-gets-her-through-these-trying-times?utm_content=buffer0640f&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-theblaze&fbclid=IwAR3cFs1Z35XoYPoLlRwr0fnXkRRkE4fBR0zwyXGp93rgxqdpmuvlBlyirPQ

QuoteWhile millions are jobless amid COVID-19, millionaire Nancy Pelosi shows off freezer full of ice cream that gets her through 'these trying times'


Fortunately, Republican politicians are models of decorum and modesty these days.

I have noticed there are quite a number of media attempts at publicly shaming those rich people/celebrities who share their self-isolation experience.  "Tone-deaf" gets thrown around a lot.

But really...how is seeing the rich showing off how great their self-isolation life is any different then showing off how great their regular life is (which usually, the media/public love to lap up) at any other time?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 16, 2020, 06:24:32 AM
It's not, people are just grumpier.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on April 16, 2020, 06:31:01 AM
Fuck you. Am not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 16, 2020, 07:26:51 AM
Is having a few boxes of ice cream really an outrageous affront to the tribunes of the people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on April 16, 2020, 08:32:37 AM
It better not be, or I could be Public Enemy #1.

To make it worse...one of my favorites here is Venezuelan Chocolate.  I am supporting the evil communists.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 17, 2020, 01:48:16 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93821869_3448789605135374_5228795221688451072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=znGaix3lrjgAX9ngJHY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8abdd566bccdc1479c7c43ec197890dd&oe=5EC0A1C7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 17, 2020, 02:28:14 PM
At least they do acknowledge doctors have some legitimacy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 17, 2020, 02:31:03 PM
The guy is a microbiologist though...I guess that word is too long for the red hats.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 17, 2020, 02:34:29 PM
I guess Soros can sigh a sigh of relief, he has been toppled as World Enemy #1.

Will be interesting to see how soon the Hungarian government will adapt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 17, 2020, 02:36:28 PM
Bill Gates think's there's too many people on earth???

Does the meme makes know how many million lives the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has helped save?

122 million.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/bill-gates-philanthropy-warren-buffett-vaccines-infant-mortality
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 17, 2020, 02:50:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 17, 2020, 02:36:28 PM
Bill Gates think's there's too many people on earth???

Does the meme makes know how many million lives the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has helped save?

122 million.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/bill-gates-philanthropy-warren-buffett-vaccines-infant-mortality (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/bill-gates-philanthropy-warren-buffett-vaccines-infant-mortality)

One of the major over arching conspiracy theories that the global elite wish to exterminate the a significant portion of the population.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 17, 2020, 02:56:02 PM
Hi my name is Bill Gates. I have given away more of my money saving lives around the world, then the entire Trump family could make in 10 lifetimes. I have to commit billions to international public health because my own government is completely fucking incompetent even when it cares, which it doesn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 17, 2020, 02:56:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 17, 2020, 02:36:28 PM
Bill Gates think's there's too many people on earth???

Does the meme makes know how many million lives the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has helped save?

122 million.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/bill-gates-philanthropy-warren-buffett-vaccines-infant-mortality

He had to save them to kill them.

Now that they are alive, they are certain to die.  Monster.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 17, 2020, 03:11:43 PM
Back to the '90s, Bill Gate as the Antichrist, again! :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 19, 2020, 11:04:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57154649_2440229449320990_5680639297489731584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Rkza3ARj8CwAX8fDfua&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=760851c10d3f0a8e187a365162790a0d&oe=5EC30771)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 19, 2020, 11:16:47 AM
A powerful argument for intelligent design.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 19, 2020, 12:13:53 PM
I really despise that scumbag (not The Brain).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 19, 2020, 02:15:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 19, 2020, 11:16:47 AM
A powerful argument for intelligent design.
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on April 19, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
I have resolved to calling these protestors "paid actors".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 20, 2020, 12:54:23 AM
https://pjmedia.com/trending/heres-how-much-downstate-new-york-is-skewing-the-united-states-coronavirus-numbers/?fbclid=IwAR1JBC-D3-dmeuaFYCFl8aezx6O6KCL82J54yfNIjRV0pFmShTFzV2FkS9I

QuoteHere's How Much Downstate New York Is Skewing the United States' Coronavirus Numbers

I live in New York State. But I live in Western New York—not New York City or downstate. If you ask anyone from downstate, they are New Yorkers. I am not. And quite honestly, I'm okay with that. I have no problem with not being lumped in with the downstaters.

Except I still am. New York is a hotspot when it comes to coronavirus cases and deaths, but that's only because of downstate. Upstate New York's coronavirus situation pales in comparison to downstate. New York City, in particular, was doomed due to the incompetence of local leaders, as well as other factors, such as population density and its subway system aiding in the spread of the virus.

Personally, I've thought for weeks we should be counting downstate New York separately from the rest of the country. So I looked at the numbers to see what happens when you separate downstate New York from the rest of the country.

The numbers are shocking. Downstate has been so heavily impacted by the coronavirus that it skews the United States when you compare us to the rest of the world.

Downstate New York technically includes New York City, Long Island, and the Hudson Valley, but I am only including Kings, Queens, New York, Suffolk, Bronx, Nassau, Westchester and Richmond Counties. These counties have a population of 12,205,796, according to World Population Review's numbers for 2020—bigger than many countries.

After compiling data for the top 30 countries with the most cases of the coronavirus, I ranked the top ten countries by confirmed cases per capita (per million) based on the Center for Systems Science and Engineering at Johns Hopkins University's data as of 11:00 am ET on April 18, 2020.

Spain (4,100.67)
Belgium (3,208.30)
Switzerland (3,166.40)
Italy (2,851.95)
Ireland (2,831.23)
France (2,284.94)
United States (2,135.43)
Portugal (1,930.52)
Netherlands (1,853.88)
United Kingdom (1,698.42)
Right away we can see that the United States does not "lead the world" in coronavirus cases. Even with downstate New York in the mix, the United States isn't nearly as bad as the mainstream media makes it out to be. But here's what happens to the top ten once you treat downstate New York as its own country:

Downstate New York (16,230.65)
Spain (4,100.67)
Belgium (3,208.30)
Switzerland (3,166.40)
Italy (2,851.95)
Ireland (2,831.23)
France (2,284.94)
Portugal (1,930.52)
Netherlands (1,853.88)
United Kingdom (1,698.42)

Separating downstate New York from the rest of the United States shows us just how bad the situation there is. In fact, the rest of the country doesn't even rank in the top ten anymore (it comes in at #13).

But, as I've mentioned before, confirmed cases are not the best way to compare countries because of the discrepancies in testing between them. So, let's compare these countries by the fatality rate per capita (per million).

Belgium (470.51)
Spain (428.68)
Italy (376.19)
France (286.53)
United Kingdom (228.28)
Netherlands (210.86)
Switzerland (155.29)
United States (112.04)
Ireland (107.34)
Portugal (67.37)
Once again, even with downstate New York included, the coronavirus has impacted the United States much less than other hard-hit countries. But now, here's what happens when we treat downstate New York as a separate country from the United States in terms of deaths per capita (per million).

Downstate New York (848.45)
Belgium (470.51)
Spain (428.68)
Italy (376.19)
France (286.53)
United Kingdom (228.28)
Netherlands (210.86)
Switzerland (155.29)
Sweden (149.61)
Ireland (107.34)

Once again, downstate New York leads the pack and the United States (without downstate New York) doesn't even come in the top ten (it comes in at #11).

I should mention here that several countries are reportedly undercounting their cases and deaths, including Iran, China, and Russia. It's very possible that the actual case and death numbers for these countries are much higher, possibly even putting them in the top ten, but without reliable data I can't correct for this.

What we can see from the data is just how much downstate New York is skewing the data for the United States. What this tells us is that there shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all approach to social distancing or reopening the country. I feel pretty safe where I live, but because I'm in New York State and Governor Cuomo is treating the whole state like it is downstate, I have to abide by the same statewide restrictions. Further, if the media ever chose to look at the country's numbers the way I have, they'd see that the overwhelming majority of the country is doing much, much better than it appears to be when you include downstate New York in our numbers. The media wants you to believe that President Trump botched the federal government's response to the coronavirus. This is clearly not true. Even with downstate's tallies, we don't lead the world in cases or deaths per capita. Treating downstate as its own country shows just how much local leadership impacts containment and mitigation.

Note: All the data used for this post can be accessed via Google Docs.

UPDATE: I wanted to add the following graph of the Cumulative Cases for Top 25 Metro Areas that was presented by Dr. Birx during Saturday's Coronavirus Task Force Briefing that illustrates how the New York City metro area compares to other metro areas nationwide to visually demonstrate how severe and how unique the situation in downstate New York is.

(https://static.pjmedia.com/trending/user-content/51/files/2020/04/Top25MetroAreas-1024x576.png)

TL;DR: NYC skews national statistics, and that's because of bad local politicians, while Trump is doing quite well.

I'm reminded of a discussion I had with my sister years ago, ca. 2010. I mentioned that if I were to visit them in the US I'd also want to spend some time in NYC and potentially other cities on the East Coast. She was adamant I shouldn't go to NYC, because it's a terrible place and I would just end up mugged, probably shot. She was not joking. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on April 20, 2020, 02:04:40 AM
I'm confused. Isn't Trump president of NYC as well?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 20, 2020, 02:15:02 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on April 20, 2020, 02:04:40 AM
I'm confused. Isn't Trump president of NYC as well?

It's the basic playbook:
- good result: Trump did it
- bad result: someone else did it
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 20, 2020, 02:36:14 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 20, 2020, 02:15:02 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on April 20, 2020, 02:04:40 AM
I'm confused. Isn't Trump president of NYC as well?

It's the basic playbook:
- good result: Trump did it
- bad result: someone else did it

Like religion!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 20, 2020, 02:50:10 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 20, 2020, 12:54:23 AM
I'm reminded of a discussion I had with my sister years ago, ca. 2010. I mentioned that if I were to visit them in the US I'd also want to spend some time in NYC and potentially other cities on the East Coast. She was adamant I shouldn't go to NYC, because it's a terrible place and I would just end up mugged, probably shot. She was not joking. :unsure:

And then the CHUDs will get you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 20, 2020, 05:29:27 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93421070_10220275782832244_8248698516914831360_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=7njX2x9srtMAX9a5KAb&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8516eca0dc4101939a997888c0a3101e&oe=5EC35BBF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 07:30:20 AM
That piece is obviously Trump propaganda, and the federal government is responsible for protecting all parts of the country against pandemics, but I do think there is a legitimate point there.  I think there is a high likelihood that two heroes of the moment will become villains once all this is over and response to the crisis gets investigated. 

I think Cuomo's ability to sound coherent in press conferences will pale into insignificance once people conclude that he was way too late and way too indecisive in acting.  I also think that doctors and nurses in NYC may turn from hero to zero if people conclude that collectively their response was incompetent and killed thousands needlessly even when taking contemporary knowledge and conditions into account.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 20, 2020, 09:07:47 AM
New York City is unique in the US in many ways, all of which in this case make it prone to the spread of this kind of infection.  It is has far greater population density than any other US city.  It also relies on a very dense, crowded and extensive subway system to move people around.  It is by far the largest port of entry for people arriving from Europe and is the most popular destination for such people, which had a huge impact in this case because:  (a)  Europe was a big vector for spreading the disease, (b) Trump did not shut down travel from Europe until very late, (c) as a result it appears there were an usually large viral introduction events into the NYC area, far more than into any other region.  New York also had an early super-spreader that both caused a very large cluster off the bat, but also focused initial attention on suburban Westchester as opposed to the City itself.  New York also has wide disparities in resources and large minority populations (eg as compared to San Francisco or Silicon Valley - other dense areas) which are at higher risk of infection and death.  Finally, New York has been testing at higher rates than most other states, which will result in more reported cases.

That probably isn't an exhaustive set of reasons.  To the extent that moving slow was a contributing factor, the most obvious contributor was the late shutdown of travel from Europe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 09:16:50 AM
By high testing rates, do you mean per population, or per suspected cases?  I hope they don't have a high testing rate per suspected cases, or NY doctors and hospitals are going to come off as incompetent butchers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 20, 2020, 10:18:05 AM
So I did a look at the numbers on the "Covid Hoax" thing, and guess what I found?  If you remove the number of deaths that the Lamestream Media is wildly using, you see this "crisis" is totally made up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on April 20, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 07:30:20 AM
I also think that doctors and nurses in NYC may turn from hero to zero if people conclude that collectively their response was incompetent and killed thousands needlessly even when taking contemporary knowledge and conditions into account.

How do you think they were incompetent collectively?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
Quote from: Maladict on April 20, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 07:30:20 AM
I also think that doctors and nurses in NYC may turn from hero to zero if people conclude that collectively their response was incompetent and killed thousands needlessly even when taking contemporary knowledge and conditions into account.

How do you think they were incompetent collectively?
I have heard anecdotally that hospitals were often disorganized and making poor use of limited human resources, to the point where lack of organization led to people dying due to being forgotten about.  It also seems like the fatality rate of people being put on ventilators is 80% in NY, and only 50% elsewhere.  Maybe that means that in NY people were put on the ventilator only as part of a ritual of declaring them dead, but it's also conceivable that NY hospitals were simply not up to the job of keeping people on ventilators alive, which I understand is quite tricky and requires some level of skill.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 20, 2020, 01:18:39 PM
If you die because you can't get resources due to the Coronavirus, you have died because of the Coronavirus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2020, 01:18:39 PM
If you die because you can't get resources due to the Coronavirus, you have died because of the Coronavirus.
Yes and no.  Let's say you take a group of 1000 people with a certain kind of cancer, and randomly assign them to two oncologists.  The first oncologist has 5% of his patients die.  The second oncologist, unlike the first oncologist, gets overwhelmed with having to treat 500 patients on once, makes poor time management decisions, and has 10% of his patients die.  All 75 of the people who died died of cancer, and yet not all of these deaths were unavoidable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 20, 2020, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2020, 01:18:39 PM
If you die because you can't get resources due to the Coronavirus, you have died because of the Coronavirus.
Yes and no.  Let's say you take a group of 1000 people with a certain kind of cancer, and randomly assign them to two oncologists.  The first oncologist has 5% of his patients die.  The second oncologist, unlike the first oncologist, gets overwhelmed with having to treat 500 patients on once, makes poor time management decisions, and has 10% of his patients die.  All 75 of the people who died died of cancer, and yet not all of these deaths were unavoidable.

Because there was a third doctor in the wings? Because you could have given the best doctor more patients?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 20, 2020, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2020, 01:18:39 PM
If you die because you can't get resources due to the Coronavirus, you have died because of the Coronavirus.
Yes and no.  Let's say you take a group of 1000 people with a certain kind of cancer, and randomly assign them to two oncologists.  The first oncologist has 5% of his patients die.  The second oncologist, unlike the first oncologist, gets overwhelmed with having to treat 500 patients on once, makes poor time management decisions, and has 10% of his patients die.  All 75 of the people who died died of cancer, and yet not all of these deaths were unavoidable.

Because there was a third doctor in the wings? Because you could have given the best doctor more patients?
You could've given both doctors training on how to handle a glut of patients, ahead of time, and not rely on either doctor figuring it out successfully on the fly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 20, 2020, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 20, 2020, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2020, 01:18:39 PM
If you die because you can't get resources due to the Coronavirus, you have died because of the Coronavirus.
Yes and no.  Let's say you take a group of 1000 people with a certain kind of cancer, and randomly assign them to two oncologists.  The first oncologist has 5% of his patients die.  The second oncologist, unlike the first oncologist, gets overwhelmed with having to treat 500 patients on once, makes poor time management decisions, and has 10% of his patients die.  All 75 of the people who died died of cancer, and yet not all of these deaths were unavoidable.

Because there was a third doctor in the wings? Because you could have given the best doctor more patients?
You could've given both doctors training on how to handle a glut of patients, ahead of time, and not rely on either doctor figuring it out successfully on the fly.

Coulda woulda shoulda. Don't live your life through the rear-view mirror.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 20, 2020, 03:10:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
It also seems like the fatality rate of people being put on ventilators is 80% in NY, and only 50% elsewhere. 

Not true.  50% of the patents normally put on ventilators die, but the figure of over 50% for corona virus exists elsewhere. Much as I would like to believe your theory that somehow NYC doctors are fundamentally different than doctors elsewhere, I don't think that there is actual evidence of that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 07:11:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 20, 2020, 03:10:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
It also seems like the fatality rate of people being put on ventilators is 80% in NY, and only 50% elsewhere. 

Not true.  50% of the patents normally put on ventilators die, but the figure of over 50% for corona virus exists elsewhere. Much as I would like to believe your theory that somehow NYC doctors are fundamentally different than doctors elsewhere, I don't think that there is actual evidence of that.
Point taken, you are indeed correct that ventilators are less effective for COVID-19 patients across the board, and 80% may not even necessarily be completely out of line.  In any case, I really do hope that the catastrophically high death rate per positive case in NY and especially NYC is solely due to severe under-testing, and not due the level of care for whatever ultimate reason.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 21, 2020, 04:01:17 PM
According to this article in the Lancet, from March, a study of patients admitted to a Wuhan hospital showed a 86% mortality rate among patients put on mechanical invasive ventilation

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30110-7/fulltext

The UK ICNARC reported a 66% mortality rate

I'm not sure where the 50% comes from

Obviously the rate can vary for a lot of reasons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 22, 2020, 03:46:49 AM
I suddenly think more of one of my cousins

(https://i.postimg.cc/bvZnYzqL/94229415-3193406364004526-4407734801977573376-n.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on April 22, 2020, 04:09:57 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2020, 05:02:30 AM
Nice  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 22, 2020, 05:06:12 AM
Most bearded rednecks aren't preppers you know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2020, 06:02:45 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 22, 2020, 05:06:12 AM
Most bearded rednecks aren't preppers you know.

Many bearded rednecks who open carry ARs on state capitol steps have at least a little prepper in them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 24, 2020, 11:57:45 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/bJdYztBj/china.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 24, 2020, 01:34:51 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2020, 01:18:39 PM
If you die because you can't get resources due to the Coronavirus, you have died because of the Coronavirus.
Yes and no.  Let's say you take a group of 1000 people with a certain kind of cancer, and randomly assign them to two oncologists.  The first oncologist has 5% of his patients die.  The second oncologist, unlike the first oncologist, gets overwhelmed with having to treat 500 patients on once, makes poor time management decisions, and has 10% of his patients die.  All 75 of the people who died died of cancer, and yet not all of these deaths were unavoidable.


Oh God, you're right!  I find myself in a realm between life and death!  These little red assholes are poking my ass with pitchforks but they are wearing face masks and they take breaks to watch Dr. Oz.  This is truly the worst of both worlds!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 24, 2020, 02:59:12 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94519020_1901049546698000_2506572897112293376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VSIQuc-ylV0AX8Gs6Ro&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2c20c113b3c3b1e44790b6ad88c60227&oe=5EC9543E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2020, 03:01:42 PM
Well at least they admit the Republicans are bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 24, 2020, 03:22:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 24, 2020, 01:34:51 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2020, 01:18:39 PM
If you die because you can't get resources due to the Coronavirus, you have died because of the Coronavirus.
Yes and no.  Let's say you take a group of 1000 people with a certain kind of cancer, and randomly assign them to two oncologists.  The first oncologist has 5% of his patients die.  The second oncologist, unlike the first oncologist, gets overwhelmed with having to treat 500 patients on once, makes poor time management decisions, and has 10% of his patients die.  All 75 of the people who died died of cancer, and yet not all of these deaths were unavoidable.


Oh God, you're right!  I find myself in a realm between life and death!  These little red assholes are poking my ass with pitchforks but they are wearing face masks and they take breaks to watch Dr. Oz.  This is truly the worst of both worlds!
I know I'm right, but what am I right about? :unsure: I'm not seeing the connection between our posts yet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on April 24, 2020, 03:27:37 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 24, 2020, 02:59:12 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94519020_1901049546698000_2506572897112293376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VSIQuc-ylV0AX8Gs6Ro&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2c20c113b3c3b1e44790b6ad88c60227&oe=5EC9543E)

Both sides engage in that:

(https://www.progressivebumperstickers.com/images/424.jpg)

But, as the Tick put it, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 24, 2020, 03:57:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2020, 06:02:45 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 22, 2020, 05:06:12 AM
Most bearded rednecks aren't preppers you know.

Many bearded rednecks who open carry ARs on state capitol steps have at least a little prepper in them.

Gotta be some overlap in that Venn diagram.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on April 24, 2020, 04:51:37 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on April 24, 2020, 03:27:37 PM

Both sides engage in that:

But only one of them is right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 24, 2020, 05:28:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 24, 2020, 03:57:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2020, 06:02:45 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 22, 2020, 05:06:12 AM
Most bearded rednecks aren't preppers you know.

Many bearded rednecks who open carry ARs on state capitol steps have at least a little prepper in them.

Gotta be some overlap in that Venn diagram.

Of course. But it seems like the image is painting all the protesters with the same brush.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 24, 2020, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 24, 2020, 03:22:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 24, 2020, 01:34:51 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 20, 2020, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2020, 01:18:39 PM
If you die because you can't get resources due to the Coronavirus, you have died because of the Coronavirus.
Yes and no.  Let's say you take a group of 1000 people with a certain kind of cancer, and randomly assign them to two oncologists.  The first oncologist has 5% of his patients die.  The second oncologist, unlike the first oncologist, gets overwhelmed with having to treat 500 patients on once, makes poor time management decisions, and has 10% of his patients die.  All 75 of the people who died died of cancer, and yet not all of these deaths were unavoidable.


Oh God, you're right!  I find myself in a realm between life and death!  These little red assholes are poking my ass with pitchforks but they are wearing face masks and they take breaks to watch Dr. Oz.  This is truly the worst of both worlds!
I know I'm right, but what am I right about? :unsure: I'm not seeing the connection between our posts yet.


Yes and no about it killing me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 25, 2020, 11:33:18 AM
Quote"So as a Respiratory Therapist....I watched the clip about the "disinfectant that Trump talking about". People need to listen closely....and before I say this, I will tell you that I am not registered to vote and I don't vote. I am neutral. He is basically brain storming for an idea to help the lungs. He stated that the disinfectant kills the virus in one minute, so he proposed the question can we inject disinfectant (not Lysol), he used the word "disinfectant" ...in the lungs, but that is for the doctors to figure out. Now a lay person like Trump will say disinfectant and a medical person would say "medicine". Medicine dumped into the lungs happens all the time! I personally have dumped respiratory medicine down an Endotracheal tube directly into the lungs. When babies are born prematurely, guess what? Yes we "inject" the lungs with a medicine called surfactant that helps keep the alveoli open to oxygenate the lungs. Antibiotics are sometimes injected into infected parts of lungs through a chest tube. So what I want the general public to know, is that we do "inject" medicine into peoples lungs, that yes act like a disinfectant (antibiotics), so why is everyone in uproar over this? If you are a lay person and don't understand what he said then ask a medical person. His statement was so twisted around and misinterpreted, and this is coming from a Respiratory Therapist that has injected medicine in peoples lungs. Lysol brand has perpetrated misinformation and panicked the general public who doesn't know anything about lungs. And Trump never used the word "Lysol". So why did Lysol brand think he was talking about them, that's narcissistic on their part. Why would Lysol brand embrace that? they look ignorant. So people, yes we do inject medicine into the lungs! This is why people need to know the facts and stop panicking people." -- Stacey Shultz-Goodlin‎




Quote"Food For Thought:

(And NO, this is not up for debate!)

As parts of our country are being opened up...

Those that are happy about it, are chastised for being selfish or even worse. This is by people who cower in fear at home, while expecting others to supply their way of living. If you are one of those people, aren't you being selfish???

You expect the stores to be open...so you can get your toilet paper, etc. You expect those shelves to be stocked, and the registers manned. You expect farmers, fruit and vegetable pickers, meat packers, factory workers, and truckers to all keep those stores supplied.

And then there are those of you who feel a little bit more superior...because you shop and order online, "To help stop the spread". Yet, you expect the delivery drivers to leave packages and takeout on your doorstep. All while you are lounging in you pj's in the comfort of your home, watching "Tiger King" on Netflix.

You expect your phone to work, your power to stay on, and your mail to show up rain, sleet, or shine. You expect your garbage to be picked up. And lordt help, if your cable, internet, or cell service were to go out. The world really would stop turning!

How do you think all of those things keep working??? Magic???

The whole premise of "shelter in place", is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health...so you can protect yours. There is nothing virtuous about ignoring the largely invisible army required to allow others to shelter in place. In fact, it is the height of arrogance that they are somehow expendable...while you are not. Well guess what, they are all tired...

"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"

Loosely translated: "Let them eat cake."

Think about it...

If you are sitting at home, you have now become part of the "royal ruling class". How long do you think it will be before the "peasants" have had enough, and rise up??? There are already protests in cities across the country...and more each day.

Many of these peasant workers deemed "essential", are making minimum wage or just slightly above it. All while those collecting unemployment, are getting the normal rate "plus" an additional $600 per week for the next four months! Talk about no incentive to even go back to work. Does that sound fair??? (And then there there are those that don't fall into this category, and are truly starving to death.) Essential workers are required to risk their lives for yours, or be fired. They didn't sign up for any of this...

Our economy can't withstand much more. And if our economy collapses, so goes the rest of the world. If that happens, you will see the rise of tyrants like you have only read about in history books. One look at Venezuela, should scare the hell out of you. And some of ya'll best start watching reruns of "The Waltons". Because that is where we are heading, if we continue down this path. Then you will truly understand the meaning of the words like depression, rationing, and sacrifice.

I truly believe that with some common sense on all of our parts...we could easily go back to life as it was, or close to it. Yes, you or I could catch COVID-19...and yes, even die. We could also have a stroke, heart attack, or get struck by lightning. We take risks everyday (or at least, we used to). That is what this great nation was built on, once upon a time.

"'Tis impossible to be sure of any thing but Death and Taxes" ~ The Cobler of Preston by Christopher Bullock (1716)

The "If it just saves one life" argument holds little water, either. Suicide rates are skyrocketing. As well as Domestic Violence and Child Abuse. There's nothing quite like being trapped inside 24/7, with the one person you fear the most...with no hope of escape.

And please don't start coming at me about how people like me, will just spread it. Because, it won't end well. Why are you so worried about what I am doing??? You won't get it...because remember, you're staying in your home "sheltering in place". Which is absolutely your choice and right, as a citizen of the United States of America. But unless you are living like the Amish, you are being rather hypocritical. Just don't expect the rest of us who choose to not live fear, to pay for you to continue to do so. That's not fair, either.

This is "supposed" to be a free country for all. I will gladly support your right to hide under your bed, for as long as you need...just do not expect me to economically support you. In return, I expect you to support me to be free to return to work, and to enjoy everything this great country has to offer...at no economic expense to you. WIN-WIN
Get one thing straight, I absolutely don't want people to die...from COVID or anything else. I want people to live. But sheltering in place, is not living..."

"I'd rather die while I'm living...than live while I'm dead." ~ Jimmy Buffett


https://youtu.be/gNTHuCOjAy8
QuoteDr. Dan Erickson of Bakersfield, CA just dropped multiple bombshells that completely eviscerate the official government narrative. Main points made by the doctor:

1.  The answer as to whether or not we need to continue to stay at home and keep businesses closed is an emphatic "NO".
2.  Covid-19 is in fact no more dangerous than seasonal flu.
3.  Quarantining is a health hazard in and of itself.
4.  ER doctors are being pressured to add Covid-19 to death reports.
5.  Not about science.  Not about Covid-19.  When they use the word "safe" - that's about controlling you.

Time to get back to work America.  A free people doesn't ask for permission to live.  Remember, you have an inalienable right to resume your life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 25, 2020, 11:43:50 AM
Thanks Syt, keep up the good work of reporting this stuff.

You're probably helping to save the sanity of one or two of us.   :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: fromtia on April 25, 2020, 11:49:45 AM
Because Syt is willing to mine facebook for this stuff, Like a hobbit trudging through Mordor, it may actually no longer be necessary to go on Zuckerbergs dismal platform at all. I can get my former in laws and assorted work colleagues viewpoints right here in one thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 25, 2020, 11:52:06 AM
Oh, it's not much effort. It's just visiting my sisters' pages. Two more so than the other.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on April 25, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 25, 2020, 11:33:18 AM
Quote"Food For Thought:

(And NO, this is not up for debate!)
Trumpism, in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 25, 2020, 02:39:18 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94129341_10220601445323825_4720917061218336768_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sKc4q7sV0moAX_pIphx&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9cd7094b3bd623f39dce56729a2d59f3&oe=5ECC1BE5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 25, 2020, 02:41:25 PM
At least they admit that Trump needs professional help.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on April 25, 2020, 03:09:54 PM
The best way anybody can help the president and the country is to find Trump a different job.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 26, 2020, 10:40:46 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/95244399_10158258233366240_2358356487715160064_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=U7d5GYlLC_QAX-04zYk&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=eec8925c1b5960f1933c48918b600e80&oe=5ECA66A2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 26, 2020, 11:46:52 AM
QuoteMelinda England McCloud
· Public
If you believe the President said to inject bleach, you most likely already chewed a Tide Pod.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 26, 2020, 12:03:35 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 26, 2020, 10:40:46 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/95244399_10158258233366240_2358356487715160064_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=U7d5GYlLC_QAX-04zYk&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=eec8925c1b5960f1933c48918b600e80&oe=5ECA66A2)

Hilarious, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 26, 2020, 12:04:51 PM
A mildly funny wordplay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 26, 2020, 12:27:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2020, 11:46:52 AM
QuoteMelinda England McCloud
· Public
If you believe the President said to inject bleach, you most likely already chewed a Tide Pod.

We can only go by what words he said. Maybe we need some Trump priests to interpret what he is saying standing by like the Oracle of Delphi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 26, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Finally, a President who says what he means and means what he says!

Errrh, well, not in THAT case, that's not what he meant at all!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 26, 2020, 12:54:30 PM
You can't take him literally, you have to take him seriou . . . er, , SARCASTICALLY!  that's it, you have to take him sarcastically.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 26, 2020, 02:03:28 PM
You know, just once I'd like to hear him say " I was wrong I'll try to do better in the future".  Or something along those lines.   Hell, he could even blame it partly on stress or something.  "That was a dumb thing to say, I've been working really hard and my head can get a little muddled" That would indicate that he's at least a normal person and not a sociopath.  It's okay to say stupid things once in a while.  It's okay to be wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 26, 2020, 04:18:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2020, 12:04:51 PM
A mildly funny wordplay.

More than mildly, since it matches a very close French wordplay raie publique (raie being a synecdoche of bottom/arse) and république – en marche –, as in Macron's party.  :P
Difference between /ɛ/ and /e/ being lost in Southern French now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 27, 2020, 12:51:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/95136919_2557983721107739_4243039685397446656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=-gim37ck_RsAX_apbIa&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=83c01d7a5a9264a4de3c5039a75162a5&oe=5ECC87E5)

QuoteCharley Burke
Republican Dogs for Trump
· Public
We stand in line at Target, Walmart, Lowe's etc. We can stand in line in November. Say NO to mail in voting. Make this go viral
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 27, 2020, 12:52:43 AM
Um the President said it, not the news. Is the President also fake news? What is the real news? Idiotic internet memes?

I don't get the angst over mail in ballots. Don't we already do that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 27, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 27, 2020, 12:52:43 AM
Um the President said it, not the news. Is the President also fake news? What is the real news? Idiotic internet memes?

What could be more valuable for this president than nobody believing anything he or the media says? Leaves him free to do whatever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 27, 2020, 10:15:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 27, 2020, 12:52:43 AM
Um the President said it, not the news. Is the President also fake news? What is the real news? Idiotic internet memes?

I don't get the angst over mail in ballots. Don't we already do that?

Well, to be fair, the President said to inject it, not to drink it.

Which is obviously so much more sensible ...  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 27, 2020, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 27, 2020, 12:51:07 AM


QuoteCharley Burke
Republican Dogs for Trump
· Public
We stand in line at Target, Walmart, Lowe's etc. We can stand in line in November. Say NO to mail in voting. Make this go viral

"Make this go viral" is a very apt turn of phrase for this particular idiocy.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 27, 2020, 10:18:45 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 25, 2020, 02:39:18 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94129341_10220601445323825_4720917061218336768_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sKc4q7sV0moAX_pIphx&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9cd7094b3bd623f39dce56729a2d59f3&oe=5ECC1BE5)


He's already told us what we can do for him.  Risk your life for the economy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 28, 2020, 02:29:47 PM
If you don't want to think hard about politics:

(https://i.imgflip.com/3tqh9d.jpg?fbclid=IwAR1VfiTSkBjlscdVMNGeLK8RVbNN-nEBBi6Q3HAFIqSsL9Os8RFl-IMgtu4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 28, 2020, 02:48:57 PM
Given the audience it has to be kept simple.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 28, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
That was very brave of you, Syt.  :cry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 28, 2020, 04:47:43 PM
I hope putting it on a blue background tricks some people :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 28, 2020, 04:50:12 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 28, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
That was very brave of you, Syt.  :cry:

Stunning and brave.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 28, 2020, 06:33:19 PM
Maybe Trump will make it easier and the ballot will be filled out before you even show up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 05, 2020, 01:00:21 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/14435418_1108173639232082_2742433567434566064_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=X2hRNf6pN4MAX9trCSl&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4785693edd3d90509891ff9417007213&oe=5ED81F09)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 05, 2020, 01:13:26 AM
 :lol:

I suspect the original author was taking the piss.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on May 05, 2020, 09:02:23 AM
What's an easy 40 trillion between friends?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 05, 2020, 09:05:53 AM
Gotta love these people's childlike grasp of the way the world works.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 05, 2020, 03:09:44 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 05, 2020, 09:02:23 AM
What's an easy 40 trillion between friends?


Does nobody notice that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 06, 2020, 02:27:31 AM
It's also a genuine common problem I've observed with this sort of right wing populist. They don't get big numbers. They can't grasp the difference between a million and a billion even let alone anything bigger.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 10, 2020, 07:33:43 AM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92269096_10158172073221240_1156375641860341760_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=_ZxdUomcdgMAX9RpP3U&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=8e9cc5f35994c05f1d76385cba22ca91&oe=5EDC8AA7)

A nice sum-up of what I get sometimes. The person who posted it meant it as parody.
Almost perfect, only missing the Antichrist a.k.a Bill Gates.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 11, 2020, 12:52:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54514521_10219323946833265_7393347572233928704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4FzvKA7gtAQAX_c0efT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9e40d08cae2992f382795ee180c27161&oe=5EE02A83)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 11, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
They let all the boys in the America into one girl's bathroom.

Monstrous!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 11, 2020, 03:02:32 PM
I mean if boys are not allowed in the girl's bathrooms how are they going to get cleaned? Are all janitorial staff required to be female?

To be fair letting boys in girls restrooms is the only one of those things we actually do...but I was not aware it was a crime to enter the girl's restroom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 11, 2020, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2020, 03:02:32 PM
I mean if boys are not allowed in the girl's bathrooms how are they going to get cleaned? Are all janitorial staff required to be female?

To be fair letting boys in girls restrooms is the only one of those things we actually do...but I was not aware it was a crime to enter the girl's restroom.

OK Sitzpinkler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 11, 2020, 03:26:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2020, 03:02:32 PM
I mean if boys are not allowed in the girl's bathrooms how are they going to get cleaned? Are all janitorial staff required to be female?

To be fair letting boys in girls restrooms is the only one of those things we actually do...but I was not aware it was a crime to enter the girl's restroom.

It depends on who the girl is, and why she needs multiple restrooms.  This Joe Walsh thing doesn't provide even her name, so it is hard to get too upset that the democrats lets some boys into some of her restrooms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 11, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 11, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
They let all the boys in the America into one girl's bathroom.

Monstrous!

How did the Democrats get the necessary easement through the girl's house to allow that kind of access to her bathroom.  I know Pelosi was a legislative God, but that is truly remarkable.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2020, 12:47:55 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/96159616_249345672976367_5893634151696826368_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=p3zFX7VxAfUAX9GubhJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6c1d0509e87056e8aa567b1af14def60&oe=5EDDF063)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 12, 2020, 01:07:53 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2020, 01:10:24 AM
I appreciate that they're using three fictional narratives. At least it's consistent. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 12, 2020, 12:06:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 12, 2020, 01:10:24 AM
I appreciate that they're using three fictional narratives. At least it's consistent. :P

I take it the point is that Democrats are carrying out God's Plan?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 12, 2020, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 12, 2020, 12:06:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 12, 2020, 01:10:24 AM
I appreciate that they're using three fictional narratives. At least it's consistent. :P

I take it the point is that Democrats are carrying out God's Plan?

They don't generally take that view though. Look at Judas and Pontius Pilate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2020, 12:46:25 PM
Also, you may think the last two posts by me were meant as hyperbole. I wish they were.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 12, 2020, 01:57:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2020, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 12, 2020, 12:06:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 12, 2020, 01:10:24 AM
I appreciate that they're using three fictional narratives. At least it's consistent. :P

I take it the point is that Democrats are carrying out God's Plan?

They don't generally take that view though. Look at Judas and Pontius Pilate.

Yeah, I know, the Christian God is all powerful, except when God isn't.

Edit, actually the North American fundy version.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2020, 02:18:22 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/96872648_10219626704515798_1876392235763761152_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=m-wq74gZO1MAX8F0aar&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5e5e1cdcfd74473962896f0a3024ff5f&oe=5EDF629A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 12, 2020, 02:25:12 PM
It's kind of how his brain is capable of using a computer to create the meme but not of processing it logically. Partially effective.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2020, 03:05:25 PM
I guess listening to medical advice is now a political stance? Soon not shitting in the woods will be partisan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2020, 03:07:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2020, 03:05:25 PM
I guess listening to medical advice is now a political stance? Soon not shitting in the woods will be partisan.

Just another wedge issue that's artificially created and used to split the electorate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 12, 2020, 03:26:17 PM
This kind of thinking is a curious thing about the loony right and their black and white world view. You see it a lot with gun control where they'll always inevitably argue its wrong as criminals will somehow get guns and gun deaths won't totally dissappear. Because if something isn't perfect why bother.

Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2020, 03:05:25 PM
I guess listening to medical advice is now a political stance? Soon not shitting in the woods will be partisan.

In the UK this is a bad thing as ultimately society suffers as they tax the nhs.
In the US however it sounds like evolution in action.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 12, 2020, 07:11:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 12, 2020, 03:07:26 PM
Just another wedge issue that's artificially created and used to split the electorate.

I think it's a reflection of the fact that for a great many Republicans their sole ideological belief is that whatever a Democrat says is right has to suck.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 13, 2020, 04:10:29 AM


(https://i.ibb.co/8KSySM0/glock.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 13, 2020, 04:15:07 AM
MUH FREE SPEACH!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 13, 2020, 04:30:09 AM
How is Whole Foods a ghetto store? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2020, 04:34:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 13, 2020, 04:30:09 AM
How is Whole Foods a ghetto store? :hmm:

Maybe he once saw a black person in one?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 13, 2020, 05:05:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 13, 2020, 04:30:09 AM
How is Whole Foods a ghetto store? :hmm:

Similar prices to 7-11 maybe?   :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 13, 2020, 05:58:13 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 13, 2020, 05:05:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 13, 2020, 04:30:09 AM
How is Whole Foods a ghetto store? :hmm:

Similar prices to 7-11 maybe?   :hmm:

Maybe a 7-11 in Hong Kong?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 13, 2020, 11:19:17 AM
I haven't seen an actual 7-11 in a while, but groceries in convenience stores tend to be quite overpriced.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 13, 2020, 02:54:10 PM
I miss 7-11. Combinis are one of the most awesome parts of life in Japan. Fried chicken anytime of the day within moments.... Even in a backwoods residential estate at 4am
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 13, 2020, 03:11:21 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94884297_221830375906573_6882534458746994688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=WZueWTbz43MAX_aT66C&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=3b071be455ffc771624b9cc157f7d6ba&oe=5EE04589)

Comment:

QuoteActually the survival rate is higher...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
What rights did we give up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 13, 2020, 03:38:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
What rights did we give up?

The right to party.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on May 13, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2020, 03:38:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
What rights did we give up?

The right to party.

OK, you win
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on May 13, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
What rights did we give up?

Assembly and religion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on May 13, 2020, 06:07:30 PM
And climbing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 13, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
Thank God we didn't have this attitude during WW2.  We'd be out the war after armed protesters demanded that their right to sugar was being infringed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 13, 2020, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
Thank God we didn't have this attitude during WW2.  We'd be out the war after armed protesters demanded that their right to sugar was being infringed.

You think the US should have surrendered immediately to save lives?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 13, 2020, 07:21:08 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2020, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2020, 06:31:08 PM
Thank God we didn't have this attitude during WW2.  We'd be out the war after armed protesters demanded that their right to sugar was being infringed.

You think the US should have surrendered immediately to save lives?


I think they would have claimed Hitler was a Hoax and rationing would have been too much of a sacrifice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 14, 2020, 06:01:15 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 13, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 13, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
What rights did we give up?

Assembly and religion.

So the US is the new Enver Hodxha Albania?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 15, 2020, 02:50:30 AM
"If you can get yourself to the grocery store, the Drug Store, Home Depot, Lowe's Walmart, Target etc etc oh and the Liquor Store and stand in line waiting to get in , you can get yourself to the Voting Booth and do the same. Please people do not fall for the bullshit the democrats are trying to sell you."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 15, 2020, 03:03:38 AM
It really is amazing how against postal votes the far right are. Even before corona I noticed it was a real rising trend.
So transparent in why they're against it too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on May 15, 2020, 05:00:49 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 15, 2020, 03:03:38 AM
It really is amazing how against postal votes the far right are. Even before corona I noticed it was a real rising trend.
So transparent in why they're against it too.

They're definitely not hiding their motives.

"They had things, levels of voting that if you'd ever agreed to it, you'd never have a Republican elected in this country again" Donald Trump
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 15, 2020, 01:02:30 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 15, 2020, 02:50:30 AM
"If you can get yourself to the grocery store, the Drug Store, Home Depot, Lowe's Walmart, Target etc etc oh and the Liquor Store and stand in line waiting to get in , you can get yourself to the Voting Booth and do the same. Please people do not fall for the bullshit the democrats are trying to sell you."

Heh. If you can order from the Drug Store, Home Depot, Lowe's, Walmart, Target, etc etc online you can vote by mail. Please people do not fall for the voter suppressing nonsense Syt's family is trying to sell you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 16, 2020, 08:04:11 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/97048552_3524658040881863_4502066427125039104_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=bJNTGRY17IkAX_byQzG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6e252b670496d0c56de00113fcaa8a17&oe=5EE6915B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 16, 2020, 03:03:07 PM
Really? State and local officials who earn basically nothing and work very long hours in public service? And almost all of them have careers and businesses outside of public service are now being smeared as some kind of elitist clique?

Is there anybody in the United States your family has not smeared and attacked as evil at some point Syt? I guess the President.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 16, 2020, 03:53:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2020, 03:03:07 PM
Really? State and local officials who earn basically nothing and work very long hours in public service? And almost all of them have careers and businesses outside of public service are now being smeared as some kind of elitist clique?

Is there anybody in the United States your family has not smeared and attacked as evil at some point Syt? I guess the President.

I don't think Syt's family is writing these.

I do find it funny that people who can't even be bothered to vote are attempting to splinter society based on the actions of a bunch of very-part-time state legislators.  Virginia's legislature meets for an average of 45 days a year and legislators get less than $18k in salary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 16, 2020, 11:12:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2020, 03:03:07 PM
Really? State and local officials who earn basically nothing and work very long hours in public service? And almost all of them have careers and businesses outside of public service are now being smeared as some kind of elitist clique?

Is there anybody in the United States your family has not smeared and attacked as evil at some point Syt? I guess the President.

This kind of bullshit goes way back.  I grew up among politicians, they are typically pretty ordinary and frequently quite dull.  Our current governor is just some farmer.  The Lieutenant Governor is a guy who owned a car dealership.  If these dipshits actually took the time to meet their representatives and talk to them they will find that yes, the coronavirus has hit them just as hard as it has everyone else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 17, 2020, 12:37:17 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 16, 2020, 03:53:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2020, 03:03:07 PM
Really? State and local officials who earn basically nothing and work very long hours in public service? And almost all of them have careers and businesses outside of public service are now being smeared as some kind of elitist clique?

Is there anybody in the United States your family has not smeared and attacked as evil at some point Syt? I guess the President.

I don't think Syt's family is writing these.

Correct. They see some post on their timeline that's ARGHL-BARGHL-EVIL POLITICIANS and they will just share it without thinking about it too hard.

Though I'm not sure how much of that post also reflects our upbringing. From my parents' view, anyone owning a business or being self-employed (even if it's just the local shoe shop or the town's insurance guy) was on a notably higher societal tier than our family and therefore distant/separate. My father was in our town's small fishing club and considered it quite prestigious that there were two or three shop owners in in it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 17, 2020, 10:29:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/98174158_165947231555307_8962940385554857984_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=n8OvpogZ_CQAX9oqhUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2089699ceef7f2954a54da315b6efe77&oe=5EE5F445)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 17, 2020, 11:16:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/97966466_2672142476369519_3844325974250356736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1Zx26Ta-1-cAX90ag-w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d5ed25e456e861df36e072928e151aca&oe=5EE86235)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 17, 2020, 11:22:25 AM
In their defense Covid-19 is, relatively speaking, frighteningly intelligent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 17, 2020, 11:23:15 AM
Fine.  No mail in ballots.  If Trump wants to vote than he can wait in line like every one else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 17, 2020, 11:30:44 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 17, 2020, 11:22:25 AM
In their defense Covid-19 is, relatively speaking, frighteningly intelligent.
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 17, 2020, 11:33:01 AM
My oldest sister, the nurse, also posted a few days ago that if there's going to be a vaccine against Covid-19 she won't take it. Asked by my other sister why not, she replied that she doesn't trust vaccines.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 17, 2020, 11:38:16 AM
At least she's not a doctor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 17, 2020, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 17, 2020, 11:38:16 AM
At least she's not a doctor.

She didn't have the patience.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 17, 2020, 12:14:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 17, 2020, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 17, 2020, 11:38:16 AM
At least she's not a doctor.

She didn't have the patience.

I see what you did, there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 18, 2020, 11:58:04 PM
Masks will be killing us! :o

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/96514863_10222184435544525_7321453324392202240_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=gFLc3dTmxjUAX89zULy&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d92ff0e5ad6c5f836d7d3b40d57733e4&oe=5EE80C98)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2020, 12:01:27 AM
Also, this:

https://done.com/why-is-a-social-worker-dictating-covid-19-policy-for-the-countrys-largest-county/?fbclid=IwAR2jMwtwmNJ1gIw0FgGXYsXojmx5fk3PuaVQOxXyKlwe14AHbMS6L56MoUM

QuoteOpEd: Why is a Social Worker Dictating COVID-19 Policy for the Country's Largest County?



And:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/98007921_3535928759754791_47649458103517184_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=tm-M81rJBX8AX-67l1h&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9ee181b47302008a7f1b217be2850ad8&oe=5EEA3106)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 19, 2020, 01:07:15 AM
Wait, what?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2020, 01:13:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 19, 2020, 01:07:15 AM
Wait, what?

My guess at the intended interpretation is, "Look how many people in NY died, and they shut down everything! Meanwhile, in Florida ...." Not sure about income tax, though. Nanny state with high tax still fails?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 19, 2020, 01:53:01 AM
I don't think those percentages are correct.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 07:25:08 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 19, 2020, 01:53:01 AM
I don't think those percentages are correct.

They are probably based on the entire population of the state because that makes sense when talking about mortality rate of Corona Virus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 07:33:44 AM
I also like how California is listed as having a 13.3% state income tax when you only pay that on income you make in excess of $1 Million dollars that you actually make in California. Really applicable to most people. In terms of state taxes, California is actually only 36th out of 50 in state taxes paid per person, but instead of actualy listing state taxes paid for person they choose a very misleading statistic instead, because California has very low taxes on the low income end.

But it is amazing what kind of lies you can tell with things that are not untrue. *sigh*
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2020, 09:06:39 AM
I'll take bad analogies for 200, Alex!

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/98333113_3597902293559724_992253963543773184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=2m__pJ2OJFcAX8KP1Md&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b602547a55b978850c1afc771f8f9dc1&oe=5EEB2171)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 09:13:18 AM
Um you don't wear a mask to protect yourself though...

Anyway accusationg of hypocrisy usually just indicate you have no compelling counter-argument.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 19, 2020, 09:14:12 AM
It's incredible how absolutely EVERYTHING can be politicised over there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 09:14:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 19, 2020, 09:14:12 AM
It's incredible how absolutely EVERYTHING can be politicised over there.

Oh fuck yes. It is insane. Every damn thing is some kind of political statement. It pisses me off to no end.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on May 19, 2020, 09:43:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 09:14:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 19, 2020, 09:14:12 AM
It's incredible how absolutely EVERYTHING can be politicised over there.

Oh fuck yes. It is insane. Every damn thing is some kind of political statement. It pisses me off to no end.
That sounds like communist talk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 10:42:22 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 19, 2020, 09:43:52 AM
That sounds like communist talk.

All this politics divides the proletariat with false conciousness  :ultra:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on May 19, 2020, 10:50:54 AM
Taxes kill, folks. Glad to see that the pandemic of state income taxes is finally getting the attention it deserves. Georgia's 6% state income tax killed 71,200 people last year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2020, 10:54:53 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 19, 2020, 10:50:54 AM
Taxes kill, folks. Glad to see that the pandemic of state income taxes is finally getting the attention it deserves. Georgia's 6% state income tax killed 71,200 people last year.

Not sure if serious. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
It is why nobody has died in Alaska, Texas, Washington, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, or Wyoming...though in South Dakota and Wyoming's case that is just because nobody lives there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on May 19, 2020, 11:28:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 10:57:23 AM
It is why nobody has died in Alaska, Texas, Washington, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, or Wyoming...though in South Dakota and Wyoming's case that is just because nobody lives there.

Not any more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 19, 2020, 11:30:26 AM
Sometimes I wonder whether stuff like this is legitimate stupidity, or just a gaslighting campaign.  You just throw so much intentional stupidity at the viewer that they stop believing that reasoned arguments are even a thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 19, 2020, 03:47:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2020, 09:13:18 AM
Um you don't wear a mask to protect yourself though...

Anyway accusationg of hypocrisy usually just indicate you have no compelling counter-argument.

Speaking of which...  :P

(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/97884859_10156987538592032_5079394174411735040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=Kie3EdMJ21YAX82yUyo&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=f75193522e27fe82f4a6837d68e72e07&oe=5EE94EE7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2020, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 19, 2020, 11:30:26 AM
Sometimes I wonder whether stuff like this is legitimate stupidity, or just a gaslighting campaign.  You just throw so much intentional stupidity at the viewer that they stop believing that reasoned arguments are even a thing.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-2020-disinformation-war/605530/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2020, 09:35:11 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100388487_3468774296483984_7116179571547832320_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3ksoF9ia4AAAX-UCqOQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=741f15cd0d7d7aac7c97168310829013&oe=5EEBB7EB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2020, 09:37:43 AM
Not from my family, but here's something from my Twitter feed that made me chuckle.

(https://i.postimg.cc/3JCyQKC0/twit.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 21, 2020, 09:46:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2020, 09:37:43 AM
Not from my family, but here's something from my Twitter feed that made me chuckle.

(https://i.postimg.cc/3JCyQKC0/twit.jpg)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 21, 2020, 09:48:24 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/98201575_236806504408960_3938338887054655488_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=cjWqS89ZhnIAX8POqii&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=5644702f8c58819a63c377b488d608b2&oe=5EEC8C56)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 21, 2020, 10:05:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2020, 09:35:11 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100388487_3468774296483984_7116179571547832320_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3ksoF9ia4AAAX-UCqOQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=741f15cd0d7d7aac7c97168310829013&oe=5EEBB7EB)

This whole worldwide pandemic was just a plot to free sex offenders?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 21, 2020, 10:06:15 AM
Its interesting how in politicising this thing they've squarely put themselves into the irredeemable stupid shit head category. In the UK I'm increasingly seeing the populist minded trying to fight for the right to be the ones who favour the lockdown (heil boris etc...).
Of course, they only mean it for other people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2020, 10:08:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/97455436_3237318102946594_8521908993000472576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_62lXJWygroAX-cr60w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ab30c989c275ffeb6314669bf2e7040a&oe=5EEC8537)

(There's no evidence Pauci said that)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 21, 2020, 10:10:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 21, 2020, 10:05:33 AM
This whole worldwide pandemic was just a plot to free sex offenders?

Damn it, Xi!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 21, 2020, 10:12:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2020, 10:08:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/97455436_3237318102946594_8521908993000472576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_62lXJWygroAX-cr60w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ab30c989c275ffeb6314669bf2e7040a&oe=5EEC8537)

(There's no evidence Pauci said that)

No chance the person who posted that doesn't eat potato chips.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 21, 2020, 10:14:45 AM
You don't put salsa on potato chips.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 21, 2020, 10:17:26 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 21, 2020, 10:14:45 AM
You don't put salsa on potato chips.  :wacko:

:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 21, 2020, 10:19:00 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 21, 2020, 10:14:45 AM
You don't put salsa on potato chips.  :wacko:

Yeah, hence the chip they put salsa on not being the only chip - dots connected?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 21, 2020, 10:21:47 AM
 :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 22, 2020, 09:34:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/99123264_1148998572125328_2664013783864705024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=G5TyoTqKqeAAX95vujj&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=28e6da741cc800ce8629c143ac777c31&oe=5EECC1AF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 22, 2020, 09:35:16 AM
"Health congratulations"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on May 22, 2020, 09:36:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 22, 2020, 09:35:16 AM
"Health congratulations"

And a Wisdom Good Morning to you too!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2020, 10:57:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 22, 2020, 09:34:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/99123264_1148998572125328_2664013783864705024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=G5TyoTqKqeAAX95vujj&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=28e6da741cc800ce8629c143ac777c31&oe=5EECC1AF)

There are evil forces that want us to wear masks...for some reason?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 22, 2020, 11:01:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 22, 2020, 10:57:33 AM
There are evil forces that want us to wear masks...for some reason?

In Germany, at least, conspiracy nuts have claimed it's to brand people as slaves:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWxKjqlWoAgkVoO.jpg)

"The true reason for mouth protection masks

In the past, slaves had to wear a mouth mask

Now we have to wear mouth masks

It's meant to symbolize that we're slaves"

:tinfoil:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2020, 11:07:17 AM
Ninjas also wore masks. This symbolizes we are fighting to stop the Mongols from invading Japan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 22, 2020, 11:09:20 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 22, 2020, 11:07:17 AM
Ninjas also wore masks. This symbolizes we are fighting to stop the Mongols from invading Japan.

Michael Dudikoff, the American ninja, did not wear ninja masks all the time though.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 22, 2020, 11:13:58 AM
He was the Trump of Ninja warriors
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 22, 2020, 11:24:35 AM
He fought the extreme-right wing Pentangle though. Granted, not as a ninja, but as Matt Hunter, the name  of the character played by Chuck Norris in Invasion U.S.A.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on May 23, 2020, 05:57:52 PM
(https://i.redd.it/asume8xftg051.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on May 23, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2020, 09:37:43 AM
Not from my family, but here's something from my Twitter feed that made me chuckle.

(https://i.postimg.cc/3JCyQKC0/twit.jpg)

:yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 23, 2020, 11:44:34 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 22, 2020, 11:24:35 AM
He fought the extreme-right wing Pentangle though. Granted, not as a ninja, but as Matt Hunter, the name  of the character played by Chuck Norris in Invasion U.S.A.  :hmm:

Doesn't really register as a right-wing outfit.

(https://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_band/2127.JPG)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 24, 2020, 01:24:45 AM
The forgotten war. :(

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/96899797_528720881150701_436774315459870720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=kTghskwxk7IAX-mng8o&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=65439c7862883382f9a16b3549f2fdc4&oe=5EEFD81C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 24, 2020, 07:00:28 AM
Is she Kuwaiti?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 24, 2020, 07:58:14 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 22, 2020, 11:01:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 22, 2020, 10:57:33 AM
There are evil forces that want us to wear masks...for some reason?

In Germany, at least, conspiracy nuts have claimed it's to brand people as slaves:



"The true reason for mouth protection masks

In the past, slaves had to wear a mouth mask

Now we have to wear mouth masks

It's meant to symbolize that we're slaves"

:tinfoil:

Slaves also had to wear pants :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on May 24, 2020, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 23, 2020, 11:44:34 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 22, 2020, 11:24:35 AM
He fought the extreme-right wing Pentangle though. Granted, not as a ninja, but as Matt Hunter, the name  of the character played by Chuck Norris in Invasion U.S.A.  :hmm:

Doesn't really register as a right-wing outfit.

(https://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_band/2127.JPG)

:lol:


Talented musicians, iirc Bert Jansch recently died. :(

edit:
No it was John Renbourn, Bert died back in 2011.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 24, 2020, 12:42:37 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2020, 01:24:45 AM
The forgotten war. :(

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/96899797_528720881150701_436774315459870720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=kTghskwxk7IAX-mng8o&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=65439c7862883382f9a16b3549f2fdc4&oe=5EEFD81C)


I liked the first one, but the sequel was crap.  I hope they don't try to reboot the franchise or make it a trilogy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 24, 2020, 01:52:43 PM
It's already a trilogy. Kuwait, Afghanistan, Iraq.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 24, 2020, 03:06:58 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100103812_3418459401511961_744766622119493632_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=ojv4dxGDIkMAX-oMRRO&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5ce68095f8ad9886af21a0f07f7c5a32&oe=5EF245BB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 24, 2020, 04:23:28 PM
I still want to know how a frog can get freaky with a pig.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 24, 2020, 04:46:18 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 23, 2020, 11:44:34 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 22, 2020, 11:24:35 AM
He fought the extreme-right wing Pentangle though. Granted, not as a ninja, but as Matt Hunter, the name  of the character played by Chuck Norris in Invasion U.S.A.  :hmm:

Doesn't really register as a right-wing outfit.

(https://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_band/2127.JPG)

:lol:

Wrong Pentangle.

(https://worsemovies.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/avenging-force-1986-avi_000271920.jpg)

A card-carrying member. Somewhat open to (sexual) "diversity".  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 24, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2020, 03:06:58 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100103812_3418459401511961_744766622119493632_n._nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=ojv4dxGDIkMAX-oMRRO&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5ce68095f8ad9886af21a0f07f7c5a32&oe=5EF245BB)

Eh?
What's epstein doing on there? Isn't epstein didn't kill himself more of a left wing conspiracy with the trumpys being rather more "shut up about it"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 24, 2020, 05:14:22 PM
Epstein also knew the Clintons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 24, 2020, 05:24:07 PM
Quote from: mongers on May 24, 2020, 10:36:35 AM:lol:
Talented musicians, iirc Bert Jansch recently died. :(

edit:
No it was John Renbourn, Bert died back in 2011.

I was hoping some of the Brits would get the reference. :)

I listen to a lot of folk.  :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 24, 2020, 10:31:38 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 24, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2020, 03:06:58 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100103812_3418459401511961_744766622119493632_n._nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=ojv4dxGDIkMAX-oMRRO&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5ce68095f8ad9886af21a0f07f7c5a32&oe=5EF245BB)

Eh?
What's epstein doing on there? Isn't epstein didn't kill himself more of a left wing conspiracy with the trumpys being rather more "shut up about it"

In the right wing narrative there's several people who supposedly had dirt on the Clinton's and died violent deaths.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Body_Count
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on May 25, 2020, 10:24:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 22, 2020, 09:34:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/99123264_1148998572125328_2664013783864705024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=G5TyoTqKqeAAX95vujj&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=28e6da741cc800ce8629c143ac777c31&oe=5EECC1AF)

Meanwhile, I just heard a family friend who happens to run a funeral home is now being treated for COVID-19... <_<

Facebook finally got to me, by the way. I couldn't take all the COVID-19 hoax/RE-OPEN crap littering up my feed, found myself in an argument where I was getting WAY too heated this morning, and decided it was time for a little break from the place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 25, 2020, 11:28:06 PM
So not social media, but...

my son Tim was invited over to play road hockey with one of his buddies for his birthday.  Supposed to just be 4 kids total, all outside, sounded just fine.  I go over to pick him up after supper.  There now had to be 15-20 people in the backyard, no meaningful social distancing (about the only thing was it was outside) - with more kids and parents had been invited.

But the thing is - both of the parents are doctors!  And normally they are such germophobes - they've decided not to come over upon hearing one of my kids had the sniffles.  It just has me scratching my head.

To be clear - they're not covid-hoaxers or deniers.  They very much know it's real and what effect it can have.  But it's a combination of the fact numbers in Edmonton are very low (~50 cases total), and just being tired of being locked down for two months and wanting to go out and socialize.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on May 25, 2020, 11:56:32 PM
Well we're learning as we go also. Risks of transmission when outside seem to be very, very low.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 26, 2020, 03:07:12 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2020, 10:31:38 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 24, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2020, 03:06:58 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100103812_3418459401511961_744766622119493632_n._nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=ojv4dxGDIkMAX-oMRRO&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5ce68095f8ad9886af21a0f07f7c5a32&oe=5EF245BB)

Eh?
What's epstein doing on there? Isn't epstein didn't kill himself more of a left wing conspiracy with the trumpys being rather more "shut up about it"

In the right wing narrative there's several people who supposedly had dirt on the Clinton's and died violent deaths.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Body_Count

Hilarious.
So some of the people joining in with epstein didn't kill himself think they're talking about Clinton.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 26, 2020, 03:53:36 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 25, 2020, 10:24:35 PMFacebook finally got to me, by the way. I couldn't take all the COVID-19 hoax/RE-OPEN crap littering up my feed, found myself in an argument where I was getting WAY too heated this morning, and decided it was time for a little break from the place.

Welcome to the club, I stopped checking Facebook 2 or 3 weeks after the lockdown started, as I was getting overwhelmed with the amount of nonsense that was being published. I should go back at some point, as it's the only way I have to communicate with a bunch of people, but man is it hard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on May 26, 2020, 08:44:27 PM
Words fail me.


(https://ibb.co/NjR5v1h)(https://i.ibb.co/Z895jHs/Capture.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 26, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
That's a joke right? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on May 26, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 26, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
That's a joke right? 

It is not.

I posted a rebuttal to my sisters wall, and I suspect it may mean she disowns me. Pointing out that the young womens last words were ""Long live the Communist Party, and partisans! Fight, people, for your freedom! Do not surrender to the evildoers! I will be killed, but there are those who will avenge me!" and that she was a member of the Communist Party since she was 15 will not go over well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 26, 2020, 09:00:55 PM
If we are going to remember the basic lessons of history it is probably best we get the basic details right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 26, 2020, 09:01:36 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 26, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 26, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
That's a joke right? 

It is not.

I posted a rebuttal to my sisters wall, and I suspect it may mean she disowns me. Pointing out that the young womens last words were ""Long live the Communist Party, and partisans! Fight, people, for your freedom! Do not surrender to the evildoers! I will be killed, but there are those who will avenge me!" and that she was a member of the Communist Party since she was 15 will not go over well.

I mean she does know you right? You know a shitload about history and WWII.

I guess the thing that confuses me about this is that the big foe of the Nazis was the Socialist Party of Germany. If they were just some socialist party the SPD and the KPD would have been their friends...so how does that work?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 26, 2020, 09:08:40 PM
It's a rather famous photo.  I think they built a statue to her in Yugoslavia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 26, 2020, 09:10:32 PM
I don't think this kind of propaganda requires elaborate muddying of waters.  It's meant to activate the emotions and then move on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 05:41:44 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 26, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 26, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
That's a joke right? 

It is not.

I posted a rebuttal to my sisters wall, and I suspect it may mean she disowns me. Pointing out that the young womens last words were ""Long live the Communist Party, and partisans! Fight, people, for your freedom! Do not surrender to the evildoers! I will be killed, but there are those who will avenge me!" and that she was a member of the Communist Party since she was 15 will not go over well.

I was going to say something like that, that knowing what the Yugoslav partisans fought for would really change her point of view.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 06:40:27 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 26, 2020, 09:01:36 PM


I guess the thing that confuses me about this is that the big foe of the Nazis was the Socialist Party of Germany. If they were just some socialist party the SPD and the KPD would have been their friends...so how does that work?

You were not the only one confused, judging by the Strasser brothers. I doubt most who share the meme know about them, however.
After the Night of the Long Knives, the matter was mostly solved.
There are examples of tactical or short-term collaboration between KPD and NSDAP before, such as the public transportation strike in Berlin in November 1932.

The Larch

Chetniks were also Yugoslav partisans, but I know what you mean. ;)

And yes, Raz is right, there is a statue of her. Information easy to come by Wikipedia, at least in English and French, probably more languages.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 06:54:42 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 06:40:27 AM
The Larch

Chetniks were also Yugoslav partisans, but I know what you mean. ;)

I doubt that Chetniks would have teenage girls amongst their ranks.  :P And by 1943 they were already somehow allied with the Nazis anyway, fighting against Tito and terrorizing non Serb populations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 27, 2020, 07:13:25 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 06:40:27 AM
You were not the only one confused, judging by the Strasser brothers. I doubt most who share the meme know about them, however.
After the Night of the Long Knives, the matter was mostly solved

Oh I am not confused about it. After all the hijacking of Socialism by the nationalist right was something the French pioneered of course :Boulanger: :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 27, 2020, 07:36:08 AM
Its funny when you get this sort whinging about the nazis being socialist with one breath then with the other they say the only true definition of socialism is a USSR style marxist dictatorship.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 06:54:42 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 06:40:27 AM
The Larch

Chetniks were also Yugoslav partisans, but I know what you mean. ;)

I doubt that Chetniks would have teenage girls amongst their ranks.  :P And by 1943 they were already somehow allied with the Nazis anyway, fighting against Tito and terrorizing non Serb populations.

Auxiliary roles most likely, as was the social norm in the Balkans and elsewhere.
I also doubt they terrorized German-speaking populations (Volksdeutsche) given the amount of reprisals they would get.  :P
Some groups even came up with some kind of understanding with the Ustasha, despite the Ustasha mass slaughtering Serbs.
Mihajlovic's authority, role and opportunistic/collaborationist policy vis-à-vis the German and Italian occupation forces – the latter used the Chetniks in a divide et impera way, to counter the now hostile Ustasha (protecting some Serbian civilian population in some cases) – is still a hot topic in Serbia, whereas in the West the matter is mostly settled.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 27, 2020, 07:43:16 AM
@Tyr The common element is that  :ph34r: Socialism  :ph34r: is opposed to freedom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 07:43:43 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 27, 2020, 07:13:25 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 06:40:27 AM
You were not the only one confused, judging by the Strasser brothers. I doubt most who share the meme know about them, however.
After the Night of the Long Knives, the matter was mostly solved

Oh I am not confused about it. After all the hijacking of Socialism by the nationalist right was something the French pioneered of course :Boulanger: :P

Don't forget Robespierre's role in creating modern patriotism or nationalism, or I'll have Fouquier-Tinville investigating you!  :frog:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 27, 2020, 07:50:26 AM
AFAIK National Socialism first rose to significance among the Czechs in the late 19th century.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 06:54:42 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 06:40:27 AM
The Larch

Chetniks were also Yugoslav partisans, but I know what you mean. ;)

I doubt that Chetniks would have teenage girls amongst their ranks.  :P And by 1943 they were already somehow allied with the Nazis anyway, fighting against Tito and terrorizing non Serb populations.

Auxiliary roles most likely, as was the social norm in the Balkans and elsewhere.
I also doubt they terrorized German-speaking populations (Volksdeutsche) given the amount of reprisals they would get.  :P
Some groups even came up with some kind of understanding with the Ustasha, despite the Ustasha mass slaughtering Serbs.
Mihajlovic's authority, role and opportunistic/collaborationist policy vis-à-vis the German and Italian occupation forces – the latter used the Chetniks in a divide et impera way, to counter the now hostile Ustasha (protecting some Serbian civilian population in some cases) – is still a hot topic in Serbia, whereas in the West the matter is mostly settled.

Actually Chetniks limited women participation to nursing and intelligence, and completely banned them from fighting duties. In fact they ridiculed Tito's partisans for having women fighting alongside them.

Chetniks'd not act against Yugoslav Volksdeutsche (located mostly in NE Serbia) as the branch in that area (the Black Chetniks or Pecanac Chetniks, named after their commander) were collaborationists with the puppet Serbian government established by the Nazis. They ended up being disbanded in 1943 because of their inneficiency anyway. Regular Chetniks focused more on muslims and minorities in order to ethnically cleanse their vision of Greater Serbia. Their relationship with Croatians was more complicated, and at least initially they fought against Ustashe but didn't target Croatian civilians, as there were lots of fluctiations and shifting alliances during the war (for instance initially Chetniks had jewish members, but over time they left for Tito's partisans in light of the Chetniks' cooperation with Axis forces, and later on they tried to recruit muslim Bosnians so they'd moderate their view of them accordingly). AFAIK their cooperation with the Ustase was quite local, and only focused initially in some areas of Bosnia (over time it'd encompass the whole Bosnia), and purely pragmatical in order to fight their common enemy, Tito's partisans, although they ended up subordinating themselves to the Croatians. Mihajlovic was completely against that and his Chetnik branch never collaborated with the Ustase, IIRC.

In any case, WWII in the Balkans was a bloody mess and keeping track of all the shifting alliances a maddening effort.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 10:31:53 AM
Very far in ideology though from NSDAP. Can't put Beneš on the same footing as Adolf.
Between social democracy and liberalism. So more like civic nationalism.

In socialist terms, Benito was more socialist than Adolf.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 10:37:11 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 06:54:42 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 06:40:27 AM
The Larch

Chetniks were also Yugoslav partisans, but I know what you mean. ;)

I doubt that Chetniks would have teenage girls amongst their ranks.  :P And by 1943 they were already somehow allied with the Nazis anyway, fighting against Tito and terrorizing non Serb populations.

Auxiliary roles most likely, as was the social norm in the Balkans and elsewhere.
I also doubt they terrorized German-speaking populations (Volksdeutsche) given the amount of reprisals they would get.  :P
Some groups even came up with some kind of understanding with the Ustasha, despite the Ustasha mass slaughtering Serbs.
Mihajlovic's authority, role and opportunistic/collaborationist policy vis-à-vis the German and Italian occupation forces – the latter used the Chetniks in a divide et impera way, to counter the now hostile Ustasha (protecting some Serbian civilian population in some cases) – is still a hot topic in Serbia, whereas in the West the matter is mostly settled.

Actually Chetniks limited women participation to nursing and intelligence, and completely banned them from fighting duties. In fact they ridiculed Tito's partisans for having women fighting alongside them.


In any case, WWII in the Balkans was a bloody mess and keeping track of all the shifting alliances a maddening effort.

So basically, we're in agreement.  :P cf. auxiliary roles
Nobody disputes that, but Chetniks did try to moderate their anti-muslim stance after 1943, with limited results, given all the previous bad blood.

Their dilemma was not unique see Ukrainian nationalists under Bandera, a radical as well. First, welcoming Germs as liberators, even collaborating, then turning back against them as well however, given the harsh occupation and nazi ideology.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 10:31:53 AM
Very far in ideology though from NSDAP. Can't put Beneš on the same footing as Adolf.
Between social democracy and liberalism. So more like civic nationalism.

In socialist terms, Benito was more socialist than Adolf.  :P

It'd be better if you quoted Brain, as you had me scratching my head for a while wondering what you were answering.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 10:40:10 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 10:31:53 AM
Very far in ideology though from NSDAP. Can't put Beneš on the same footing as Adolf.
Between social democracy and liberalism. So more like civic nationalism.

In socialist terms, Benito was more socialist than Adolf.  :P

It'd be better if you quoted Brain, as you had me scratching my head for a while wondering what you were answering.  :P

Next time, either answer quickly or slowly.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 27, 2020, 10:41:15 AM
Go big or go home. Loose lips sink ships.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 27, 2020, 10:53:11 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 26, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 26, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
That's a joke right? 

It is not.

I posted a rebuttal to my sisters wall, and I suspect it may mean she disowns me. Pointing out that the young womens last words were ""Long live the Communist Party, and partisans! Fight, people, for your freedom! Do not surrender to the evildoers! I will be killed, but there are those who will avenge me!" and that she was a member of the Communist Party since she was 15 will not go over well.

Reading this thread makes me glad my parents never had another child...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 11:06:34 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 10:37:11 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: The Larch on May 27, 2020, 06:54:42 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 06:40:27 AM
The Larch

Chetniks were also Yugoslav partisans, but I know what you mean. ;)

I doubt that Chetniks would have teenage girls amongst their ranks.  :P And by 1943 they were already somehow allied with the Nazis anyway, fighting against Tito and terrorizing non Serb populations.

Auxiliary roles most likely, as was the social norm in the Balkans and elsewhere.
I also doubt they terrorized German-speaking populations (Volksdeutsche) given the amount of reprisals they would get.  :P
Some groups even came up with some kind of understanding with the Ustasha, despite the Ustasha mass slaughtering Serbs.
Mihajlovic's authority, role and opportunistic/collaborationist policy vis-à-vis the German and Italian occupation forces – the latter used the Chetniks in a divide et impera way, to counter the now hostile Ustasha (protecting some Serbian civilian population in some cases) – is still a hot topic in Serbia, whereas in the West the matter is mostly settled.

Actually Chetniks limited women participation to nursing and intelligence, and completely banned them from fighting duties. In fact they ridiculed Tito's partisans for having women fighting alongside them.


In any case, WWII in the Balkans was a bloody mess and keeping track of all the shifting alliances a maddening effort.

So basically, we're in agreement.  :P cf. auxiliary roles

But you said it was the social norm in the Balkans, when Tito's partisans did give women fighting roles. In fact Lepa Radic was a member of a Partisan combat unit.

QuoteNobody disputes that, but Chetniks did try to moderate their anti-muslim stance after 1943, with limited results, given all the previous bad blood.

The Chetniks were a bit all over the place depending on the situation and place, as they operated very independently from each other. The only constant after 1941 was that their number one enemy was Tito, and they'd work with whoever that allowed them to go after him. For instance, when the Soviets were approaching they even tried to gain their support using the pan-slavist card and historical ties between Russia and Serbia as excuse, and for brief periods it'd work out, until the Soviets would order them to either join Tito's Partisans or disarm.

QuoteTheir dilemma was not unique see Ukrainian nationalists under Bandera, a radical as well. First, welcoming Germs as liberators, even collaborating, then turning back against them as well however, given the harsh occupation and nazi ideology.

Yeah, or in the Baltics as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 27, 2020, 11:16:41 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 27, 2020, 10:53:11 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 26, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 26, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
That's a joke right? 

It is not.

I posted a rebuttal to my sisters wall, and I suspect it may mean she disowns me. Pointing out that the young womens last words were ""Long live the Communist Party, and partisans! Fight, people, for your freedom! Do not surrender to the evildoers! I will be killed, but there are those who will avenge me!" and that she was a member of the Communist Party since she was 15 will not go over well.

Reading this thread makes me glad my parents never had another child...

I'd have no idea if one of my sisters was shit-posting on Facebook or not. And more it's people at my funeral... But seriously, siblings can be a blessing or a curse. If your parents raised you well, more likely the former.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 27, 2020, 11:27:24 AM
Tito's Party was the vanguard of the proletariat and thus not within Balkanic reactionary social norms. A leftie like you should have understood that.  :P
While Tito's Partisans did open to other tendencies as a national liberation front, they also have their share of atrocities against for instance Italian civilians at the end of the war in Istria.
Chetniks tried to opportunistically side with Soviets but yes, Tito's relationship with Stalin was not bad yet to prevent it, among other reasons.

The Balts and their SS, reminds me of a despicable leftist communautarist leader, former PS apparatchik, in France, who has an axe to grind with the Balts for some reason, and invented a Lithuanian SS division on his blog to slander them before quietly removing it, without any apology of course.
That's Mélenchon, one who gets elected with islamist banlieue votes. Before you ask, not those from heirs of the Handschar SS Division.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 27, 2020, 12:39:07 PM
Um... okay. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 28, 2020, 04:24:31 AM
You people are well enough read in history to know better than trying to resolve your political context and issues in the Balkan's. The Balkans are nothing more than vicious and ancient tribal warfare all day, every day. Try to untangle it and you will be trapped by it, at your own peril.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 28, 2020, 05:08:28 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 28, 2020, 04:24:31 AM
You people are well enough read in history to know better than trying to resolve your political context and issues in the Balkan's. The Balkans are nothing more than vicious and ancient tribal warfare all day, every day. Try to untangle it and you will be trapped by it, at your own peril.

:yawn:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 28, 2020, 05:22:17 AM
Point taken.  :P After all, in Wien fängt der Balkan an, you have first-hand knowledge of it. ;)
Last example was about the Balts though, which are not Balkanic, though some problems, national minorities status e.g (less so in Lithuania).

Thing is, balkanisation as a synonym of identity-based factionalism i.e identity politics is used in French politics, along with a less common one nowadays "libanisation".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on May 28, 2020, 08:43:59 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 28, 2020, 05:22:17 AM
Point taken.  :P After all, in Wien fängt der Balkan an, you have first-hand knowledge of it. ;)
Last example was about the Balts though, which are not Balkanic, though some problems, national minorities status e.g (less so in Lithuania).

Thing is, balkanisation as a synonym of identity-based factionalism i.e identity politics is used in French politics, along with a less common one nowadays "libanisation".

Lithuanians might not have formed an SS division, but their police were plenty chummy with the Einsatzkommando.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 29, 2020, 06:03:59 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 28, 2020, 08:43:59 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 28, 2020, 05:22:17 AM
Point taken.  :P After all, in Wien fängt der Balkan an, you have first-hand knowledge of it. ;)
Last example was about the Balts though, which are not Balkanic, though some problems, national minorities status e.g (less so in Lithuania).

Thing is, balkanisation as a synonym of identity-based factionalism i.e identity politics is used in French politics, along with a less common one nowadays "libanisation".

Lithuanians might not have formed an SS division, but their police were plenty chummy with the Einsatzkommando.

Not might not, did not. ;)
Police collaboration is hardly a Lithuanian exclusive, rather the rule. Except for Denmark which got its police dissolved for lack of cooperation, replaced by a pro-nazi one.
OTOH, a later auxiliary Lithuanian police corps was dissolved due to perceived lack of cooperation, nazi distrust (Lithuanians seen as being half Slav), perceived Lithuanian duplicity and lack of military value.
Widespread anti-semitism ? Of course. As in Mélenchon's current electoral basis in the banlieues (stones houses of glass etc.)

Méchant con (©Flanby) got somewhat factual only once about the Balts by saying "the Romans were never there" (the Baltic area as end of the world is m more questionable). That was in order to include North Africans, his main clientèle. Of course, being born in Morocco, as a son of high-ranking colonial civil servant might have played a part as well. Of course, this makes Egypt European as well. Problematic too, as pointed by critics in another Libération article, far from perfect itself.

However, given Mélenchon's pro-Putin tendencies he could be simply parroting the Kremlin line, by using some prejudices against Eastern Europeans (as a leftie he can't do that for North Africans).
The claim about Balts having trouble with Russians for 1000 years, repeated at the last Presidential election debate favors this hypothesis.

QuoteLe « peuple européen », qu'est-ce que c'est ? Je ne me sens rien de commun avec les pays baltes. C'est le bout du monde, même les Romains ne sont pas allés là-bas ! La grande matrice de l'Europe, ce sont les frontières de l'Empire romain. En deçà, la nation civique ; au-delà, la nation ethnique. Et quel déni de la réalité concrète ! Il y a un million de Maghrébins qui vivent aujourd'hui en France, dont une majorité sont français ! On a des familles en commun ! Mais on les traite en suspects ! Et on traiterait comme des frères de lointains Lituaniens sous prétexte qu'ils sont chrétiens ! Ce n'est pas mon histoire.

https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2017/12/15/bonjour-jean-luc-melenchon-a-t-il-vraiment-dit-comme-le-relate-slate-en-citant-le-1-je-ne-me-sens-ri_1652913 (https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2017/12/15/bonjour-jean-luc-melenchon-a-t-il-vraiment-dit-comme-le-relate-slate-en-citant-le-1-je-ne-me-sens-ri_1652913)

PS: Mélenchon also ignores the long resistance of pagan Lithuanians to Christianity. The last ones in Europe to convert.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 29, 2020, 06:05:58 AM
Back to topic, a more subtle, or less stupid (take your pick) meme, from that great fountain of knowledge called Third Eye Open which grants you critical thinker status since you do not rely on mainstream media:

(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101344473_241570750599202_8977180551488208896_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=ve0h-8t1F0IAX8o9svw&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=69a8ed02b773c872278898c1cd4857d0&oe=5EF65EE6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 29, 2020, 06:21:19 AM
My brown eye is fully open.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 29, 2020, 06:27:31 AM
Unlike Luther. Good for you :)

PS: Third Eye has often the meaning of brown eye in Portuguese as well. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:27:00 AM
From my sister. I am confused.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100910959_3108264635899026_7391666728192704512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pDpQLBWk9S4AX_Ukt4c&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1ebb8f2c9f73087bc667172797772eb5&oe=5EF4CE83)

QuoteInstead of posting images of the brutalization of black citizens, I'm posting this instead. And I can't tell you how giddy today's black innovator makes me on soooo many levels.

This absolute stud muffin of a man is Christian Cooper, trending right now due to the now infamous recent Central Park incident with that crazy lady Karen-Becky -something or other..... (we ain't here to talk about her.... were here for the sexy DADDY that is Christian 👀🏳️‍🌈🙌🏽)

Christian is a Harvard graduate! he was president of the Harvard Ornithological Club, and is currently a senior biomedical editor at Health Science Communications. (HELLO big sexy brain)
Christian is a avid bird watcher (HELLO nerd 😍😍😍😍)

But .... Mr. Christian Cooper has also written stories for Marvel Comics !!🙌🏽He has also edited a number of X-Men collections.....and here's where it gets fucking awesome ya'll........He also introduced the FIRST GAY male character, Yoshi Mishima, in a Star Trek comic as well as introducing the FIRST LESBIAN character for Marvel, Victoria Montesi!!!

So..... I'm telling you this absolute hunk of a silver daddy is brilliant, a nerd, a nature lover, AND responsible for revolutionizing the comic book world and bringing in inclusivity and diversity! 🥳🏳️‍🌈🙌🏽🤤🤤🤤🤤

Heeeeellllloooooo Christian 👀

#blacklivesmatter #100daysofblackinnovation #christiancooper #day3

***edit *** everydays post so far people have asked if they can share... YES! share these. Every person I've posted and will post; has revolutionized our world in some way! Re post it and talk about them today. We shouldn't only #saytheirname when it's due to tragedy. ❤️ say their name now and have gratitude for how these rock stars have made our world better 🌎 See Less
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 29, 2020, 08:29:04 AM
 :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 29, 2020, 08:34:12 AM
That's a bit unusual considering their normal posts. But welcome nevertheless.

(https://i.imgur.com/fJ2xJ1h.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 29, 2020, 09:09:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:27:00 AM
From my sister. I am confused.


Googling apparently this guy was in some incident where a crazy white woman called the police on him for going about his daily business.
I guess there's some kind of fascist conspiracy that he tried to attack her or something? And they're going on about  his involvement with introducing a lesbian character to mark him as definitely one of those evil libs?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 29, 2020, 09:37:43 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 29, 2020, 09:09:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:27:00 AM
From my sister. I am confused.


Googling apparently this guy was in some incident where a crazy white woman called the police on him for going about his daily business.
I guess there's some kind of fascist conspiracy that he tried to attack her or something? And they're going on about  his involvement with introducing a lesbian character to mark him as definitely one of those evil libs?

I think the confusing bit is that they seem to be supporting him vs. the straight white woman.

The story itself was a major news item in the US...well at least in my family :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on May 29, 2020, 10:50:08 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 29, 2020, 08:34:12 AM
That's a bit unusual considering their normal posts. But welcome nevertheless.

(https://i.imgur.com/fJ2xJ1h.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/sBOev3G.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 29, 2020, 10:51:20 AM
Black jellybeans? What a monster.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 29, 2020, 11:42:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 29, 2020, 09:37:43 AMI think the confusing bit is that they seem to be supporting him vs. the straight white woman.

Yes, though that's a hopeless case to defend.

Meanwhile, my other sister has posted this. :unsure:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100839371_3159694990740911_8601353681679417344_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=xpnFxhQaHlsAX9d260t&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b9cc05a21c7a0bf57c15c9a0133cd3ef&oe=5EF832A0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on May 30, 2020, 01:59:38 PM
(https://scontent-cph2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/101576519_10219409609885666_7166979525601918976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ehguCqjTrmkAX8QWQdG&_nc_ht=scontent-cph2-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=d8b1279c703396db4a72b3be2af2519f&oe=5EF9422F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 30, 2020, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: Liep on May 30, 2020, 01:59:38 PM
(https://scontent-cph2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/101576519_10219409609885666_7166979525601918976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ehguCqjTrmkAX8QWQdG&_nc_ht=scontent-cph2-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=d8b1279c703396db4a72b3be2af2519f&oe=5EF9422F)


:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on May 30, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 29, 2020, 06:03:59 AMsnip

I mean, come on now. France is much closer culturally, today, to Algeria than to Lithuania. Do you feel a kinship towards Balts or something? With their pickled fish and weird ass language?

Come on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on May 30, 2020, 03:43:56 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 30, 2020, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: Liep on May 30, 2020, 01:59:38 PM
(https://scontent-cph2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/101576519_10219409609885666_7166979525601918976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ehguCqjTrmkAX8QWQdG&_nc_ht=scontent-cph2-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=d8b1279c703396db4a72b3be2af2519f&oe=5EF9422F)


:lol:

Ok that's good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2020, 06:55:55 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/59r0sk22/kaep.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2020, 09:55:31 AM
QuoteBronk Trice
YectfSlsgSteposnrdoaay carhsodcdrt le3S:5hd8 rehsfPM · Public
Be careful healthy people, shared from a friend:
My daughter. 19 yrs old. Healthy. Frontline worker at a huge grocery store chain. Started feeling sick about two weeks ago. Side and back pain. Nausea.. Chest pain. Primary doc sent her for chest x-ray.. Something "lit up" on right side. Sent for MRI. Cat scan. Ultra sound of back and abdomen areas..NOTHING.. While at work was unable to breathe. Chest pain. Rushed to e.r. quarantined. Tested for covid. Young. By herself because no one can be with her. Turns out its pleurisy.. An inflection of the outside of the lining of the lungs. They basically tell her.. It's because she has been wearing a mask for over 8 hours a day 5-6 days a week. Breathing in her own bacteria. Carbon dioxide.. Caused an infection. And now she is in severe pain. Has to be off work with no pay.. But you wont see that on social media! She's 19. Healthy. And now is bed bound and struggling to breathe. Antibiotics. Steroids. Breathing treatments.
(Jennifer Brown)
The Surgeon General of America already stated that wearing a mask is dangerous to your health...  make your own decision...

This is of course nonsense: https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/facebook-posts-spread-unsupported-anonymous-claim-that-face-mask-use-caused-a-lung-infection-in-a-healthy-teenager/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on June 01, 2020, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:27:00 AM
From my sister. I am confused.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100910959_3108264635899026_7391666728192704512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pDpQLBWk9S4AX_Ukt4c&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1ebb8f2c9f73087bc667172797772eb5&oe=5EF4CE83)

QuoteInstead of posting images of the brutalization of black citizens, I'm posting this instead. And I can't tell you how giddy today's black innovator makes me on soooo many levels.

This absolute stud muffin of a man is Christian Cooper, trending right now due to the now infamous recent Central Park incident with that crazy lady Karen-Becky -something or other..... (we ain't here to talk about her.... were here for the sexy DADDY that is Christian 👀🏳️‍🌈🙌🏽)

Christian is a Harvard graduate! he was president of the Harvard Ornithological Club, and is currently a senior biomedical editor at Health Science Communications. (HELLO big sexy brain)
Christian is a avid bird watcher (HELLO nerd 😍😍😍😍)

But .... Mr. Christian Cooper has also written stories for Marvel Comics !!🙌🏽He has also edited a number of X-Men collections.....and here's where it gets fucking awesome ya'll........He also introduced the FIRST GAY male character, Yoshi Mishima, in a Star Trek comic as well as introducing the FIRST LESBIAN character for Marvel, Victoria Montesi!!!

So..... I'm telling you this absolute hunk of a silver daddy is brilliant, a nerd, a nature lover, AND responsible for revolutionizing the comic book world and bringing in inclusivity and diversity! 🥳🏳️‍🌈🙌🏽🤤🤤🤤🤤

Heeeeellllloooooo Christian 👀

#blacklivesmatter #100daysofblackinnovation #christiancooper #day3

***edit *** everydays post so far people have asked if they can share... YES! share these. Every person I've posted and will post; has revolutionized our world in some way! Re post it and talk about them today. We shouldn't only #saytheirname when it's due to tragedy. ❤️ say their name now and have gratitude for how these rock stars have made our world better 🌎 See Less

She does know that he's gay, right? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on June 01, 2020, 08:23:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 29, 2020, 09:37:43 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 29, 2020, 09:09:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:27:00 AM
From my sister. I am confused.


Googling apparently this guy was in some incident where a crazy white woman called the police on him for going about his daily business.
I guess there's some kind of fascist conspiracy that he tried to attack her or something? And they're going on about  his involvement with introducing a lesbian character to mark him as definitely one of those evil libs?

I think the confusing bit is that they seem to be supporting him vs. the straight white woman.

The story itself was a major news item in the US...well at least in my family :D

It was pretty big news even out this way, so yeah. I'd say it wasn't "hidden" by any stretch of imagination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2020, 08:50:50 PM
Quote from: merithyn on June 01, 2020, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 29, 2020, 08:27:00 AM
From my sister. I am confused.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/100910959_3108264635899026_7391666728192704512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pDpQLBWk9S4AX_Ukt4c&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1ebb8f2c9f73087bc667172797772eb5&oe=5EF4CE83)

QuoteInstead of posting images of the brutalization of black citizens, I'm posting this instead. And I can't tell you how giddy today's black innovator makes me on soooo many levels.

This absolute stud muffin of a man is Christian Cooper, trending right now due to the now infamous recent Central Park incident with that crazy lady Karen-Becky -something or other..... (we ain't here to talk about her.... were here for the sexy DADDY that is Christian 👀🏳️‍🌈🙌🏽)

Christian is a Harvard graduate! he was president of the Harvard Ornithological Club, and is currently a senior biomedical editor at Health Science Communications. (HELLO big sexy brain)
Christian is a avid bird watcher (HELLO nerd 😍😍😍😍)

But .... Mr. Christian Cooper has also written stories for Marvel Comics !!🙌🏽He has also edited a number of X-Men collections.....and here's where it gets fucking awesome ya'll........He also introduced the FIRST GAY male character, Yoshi Mishima, in a Star Trek comic as well as introducing the FIRST LESBIAN character for Marvel, Victoria Montesi!!!

So..... I'm telling you this absolute hunk of a silver daddy is brilliant, a nerd, a nature lover, AND responsible for revolutionizing the comic book world and bringing in inclusivity and diversity! 🥳🏳️‍🌈🙌🏽🤤🤤🤤🤤

Heeeeellllloooooo Christian 👀

#blacklivesmatter #100daysofblackinnovation #christiancooper #day3

***edit *** everydays post so far people have asked if they can share... YES! share these. Every person I've posted and will post; has revolutionized our world in some way! Re post it and talk about them today. We shouldn't only #saytheirname when it's due to tragedy. ❤️ say their name now and have gratitude for how these rock stars have made our world better 🌎 See Less

She does know that he's gay, right? :unsure:

She brags about him creating LGBT characters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2020, 12:17:05 AM
I should point out my sister just shared the text, she didn't write it. :P

We're back to the regular scheduled program of supporting the police, condemning the rioters, and suggesting the parents of the little girl that got peppersprayed should get a visit from Child Protection Services because bringing a child to a riot is reckless endangerment. :)

If you're looking for any mention of George Floyd or excessive use of force by the police ... keep looking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 02, 2020, 02:42:47 AM
The one I seem to see is anger at the rioters for blocking streets which apparently is harmful to people's constitutional rights to pursue happiness :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2020, 11:38:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/78192227_935663270282181_8473992834607742976_o.png?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=-e25PAGBbJkAX8wmcmw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=324f72d34d9ecb9741d254a9b3a36563&oe=5EFCDEDB)

But actually:

https://apnews.com/afs:Content:6348420521

QuoteCLAIM: There are only three people who won the Ellis Island award for their work within the black community: Rosa Parks, Muhammad Ali and Donald Trump. Yet the "squad" wants you to believe he's racist.

AP'S ASSESSMENT: False. Trump was one of 87 people to be honored with the Ellis Island Medal of Honor in 1986 for his successful work as a developer in New York City, not for his work within the black community.

THE FACTS: Social media users for years have wrongly suggested Trump was honored with the 1986 award for his work in the black community.

New posts circulating on social media are now holding up Trump's Ellis Island award to rebuff claims that the president is racist after he suggested on Twitter that the "squad," four freshmen Democrats who are all women of color and U.S. citizens,  should go back to the "broken and crime infested" countries they came from.

Trump was part of the first group of Americans to be given the award, which recognized people hailing from a variety of ethnic backgrounds who made significant contributions to the country, Otto Coca, communications director for the Ellis Island Honors Society, told The Associated Press last year. 

Trump was honored because of his German heritage and his work as a developer.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2020, 11:40:43 AM
An interesting thing to follow for the last few weeks was my middle sister's Covid-19 journey.

It started with her sharing memes denouncing it as hoax, then that it's not so dangerous. This morphed into that people should stay at home and wear masks, including tips on how to make your own masks. It swung back to "if we're allowed to go shopping, then why is everything else closed?" And on the weekend she shared how dangerous masks are because you keep rebreathing your stale CO2 and germs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 03, 2020, 12:39:48 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94883670_2292670544373545_6867621421762215936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=bO7z_AYzIGQAX8rOEb_&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5eb6ad336f7ff93626d56e082149a529&oe=5EFB0C5C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 03, 2020, 05:16:19 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 30, 2020, 02:54:48 PM

I mean, come on now. France is much closer culturally, today, to Algeria than to Lithuania. Do you feel a kinship towards Balts or something? With their pickled fish and weird ass language?

Come on.

:lmfao:

Great trolling. All right, I'll play along just a little bit:

Maybe in Marseille, but Marseille is not France.

PS: besides, the anti-Eastern Euro stance is so Rosbif.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 03, 2020, 05:19:25 AM
The Brown Eye (as per the Brain's recommendation) Open, still in need of an editor, but close to his fundamentals:

(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101576518_245130063576604_542029339521187840_o.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sJMhxsoWx4YAX_Bv2OE&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=8281a23473362516aad213c48d85822b&oe=5EFC6248)

Snopes seems to disagree but the one who posted it says Snope is mainstream and no proof.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jfk-plot-in-this-country-to-enslave/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jfk-plot-in-this-country-to-enslave/)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 03, 2020, 05:24:27 AM
He should have gotten a Nolbe Prize. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 03, 2020, 05:29:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 02, 2020, 11:38:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/78192227_935663270282181_8473992834607742976_o.png?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=-e25PAGBbJkAX8wmcmw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=324f72d34d9ecb9741d254a9b3a36563&oe=5EFCDEDB)




The claim that only 3 people won the medal is somewhat undercut by showing 4 people with the medal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 03, 2020, 05:30:42 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 03, 2020, 05:24:27 AM
He should have gotten a Nolbe Prize. :(

Instead he got an assasination. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 03, 2020, 05:34:48 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 03, 2020, 05:30:42 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 03, 2020, 05:24:27 AM
He should have gotten a Nolbe Prize. :(

Instead he got an assasination. :(

Sad! :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 03, 2020, 10:31:51 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101522196_10219671466591529_1578587720379269120_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=1WLSlR22wEsAX_-p247&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=28cd48e9f19023376596fe774bc6b2df&oe=5EFEAF8E)

Poor Rod Serling. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 04, 2020, 12:24:54 AM
QuoteTim Boles Jr.
snth1SSpno1ns olghrresd  · Shared with Public
We are being divided and distracted by the media! Wonder why!?? If you are still spending most of your energy arguing about the protest/riots then you are still manipulated. #wakeup #criticalthinking

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/102878311_10222935086309332_5753440238697447424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nCj6RSyliMUAX9l3ppe&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=27abef01895b11bda756598d8fe9b687&oe=5EFFD869)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101949671_10222935094229530_6842406154098704384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=bdHUtWGjuRQAX9Lsuuk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d7940c685e1e70527970b802b8cadf60&oe=5EFF214D)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78097990_10222935094429535_1952943808702316544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jQ6Vk5irKX0AX_VCQBd&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=64cb8653add7d5824122528c3cc7ac2e&oe=5EFFD2B1)
:bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding:



Also:

https://davidharrisjr.com/steven/mysterious-stacks-of-bricks-delivered-to-numerous-us-cities-more-evidence-riots-are-organized/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0Rlglgs-YY_DrGehNKNSJvm1WGFSaLX35eKGUYDcFJgCYs3OXZf828r-Q

QuoteMysterious Stacks of Bricks Delivered to Numerous US Cities – More Evidence Riots Are Organized!

Stacks of bricks are being delivered into ground zero in several cities where the riots are concentrated. There have also been plastic containers filled with rocks. Together they are used as ammunition against the police.

This all adds up to more proof that these riots are not spontaneous but are actually part of a well planned out scheme.

Antifa and their Democratic defenders are hoping the massive riots will bring down the president. But the truth is, Joe Biden is the worst candidate in history and considering that Hillary has run for president twice, that's saying something.

We reported previously that the groups behind the riots in the US include domestic terrorists, Black lives Matter, US Islamists and others linked to the Democrat Party.

These protests are organized – bricks are being delivered uninhibited to riot sites.

In cities around the US bricks are being delivered to riot locations and used to destroy property.

In Boston and Houston bricks are being delivered.

This is not just happening in one city.  So who are the bricks being delivered to?  In Frisco, Texas, bricks are being delivered to the customer labeled as Public Works.

Video/pictures at the link for those interested.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2020, 01:48:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89y5-yjAakk

These guys are treating the pre-stocked throwing rocks as legit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 04, 2020, 02:41:03 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2020, 01:48:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89y5-yjAakk

These guys are treating the pre-stocked throwing rocks as legit.

It is kind of annoying... when I watch news reports like that, or read the comments under that or other "patriotic" sites/commenters what's going on is that major US cities have succumbed to anarchy and an orgy of crime.

I look at the Guardian, or what peeps are linking to on this forum, what I see what's going on is peaceful young people kneeling and protesting and the police bashing their head in.

It's like two parallel realities with no connection point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 04, 2020, 02:52:05 AM
True reality doesn't fit into a neat little narrative.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 04, 2020, 03:02:10 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 02, 2020, 11:38:37 AM

Trump was honored because of his German heritage


They give out medals for absolutely anything these days. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 04, 2020, 03:12:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 04, 2020, 02:41:03 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2020, 01:48:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89y5-yjAakk

These guys are treating the pre-stocked throwing rocks as legit.

It is kind of annoying... when I watch news reports like that, or read the comments under that or other "patriotic" sites/commenters what's going on is that major US cities have succumbed to anarchy and an orgy of crime.

I look at the Guardian, or what peeps are linking to on this forum, what I see what's going on is peaceful young people kneeling and protesting and the police bashing their head in.

It's like two parallel realities with no connection point.

From what I can piece together the second is the most accurate. Though some shits have taken advantage of the situation to smash up some shops whilst the protests are going on. The establishment has seen how succesful equating all protestors with looters is in Hong Kong so they've decided that's the narrative to push to the unthinking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 04, 2020, 03:39:20 AM
Quote from: Tyr on June 04, 2020, 03:12:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 04, 2020, 02:41:03 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2020, 01:48:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89y5-yjAakk

These guys are treating the pre-stocked throwing rocks as legit.

It is kind of annoying... when I watch news reports like that, or read the comments under that or other "patriotic" sites/commenters what's going on is that major US cities have succumbed to anarchy and an orgy of crime.

I look at the Guardian, or what peeps are linking to on this forum, what I see what's going on is peaceful young people kneeling and protesting and the police bashing their head in.

It's like two parallel realities with no connection point.

From what I can piece together the second is the most accurate. Though some shits have taken advantage of the situation to smash up some shops whilst the protests are going on. The establishment has seen how succesful equating all protestors with looters is in Hong Kong so they've decided that's the narrative to push to the unthinking.

They didn't need Honk Kong for that, that's propaganda and human nature 101. Angry protests can look quite scary when you don't agree with them, it is quite easy to believe the narrative that all of them are violent rioters hell-bent on anarchy and destruction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2020, 03:45:17 AM
"The establishment."  :lol:

The relative numbers of peaceful protestors and looters and smashers seems pretty irrelevant to me.  The fact that people are choosing to take advantage of the situation and enrich themselves doesn't change the facts of facts of Floyd George's death, or the sincerity of the people protesting.  For what it's worth the peaceful protestors seem much more numerous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 04, 2020, 04:18:45 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2020, 03:45:17 AM
"The establishment."  :lol:

What would you call the Trump administration and their allies?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 04, 2020, 04:27:24 AM
Quote from: Tyr on June 04, 2020, 04:18:45 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2020, 03:45:17 AM
"The establishment."  :lol:

What would you call the Trump administration and their allies?

Swamp Draining Maverick Rebel Outsiders (SDMRO)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2020, 04:30:27 AM
Quote from: Tyr on June 04, 2020, 04:18:45 AM
What would you call the Trump administration and their allies?

The Trump administration, Fox, right wing media, the GOP, Trump supporters, right wingers.  The establishment really doesn't work.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 04, 2020, 08:39:52 AM
"The establishment" is a fairly meaningless term.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 04, 2020, 11:28:19 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101575559_246447063444904_7139254528158728192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=Ja-L629QQPYAX_-TEZN&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=c8a7d3a84380685590f12e818c764adc&oe=5F00A3A1)

From the usual suspect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 04, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
What is this bizarre narrative about the coronavirus? If anything else gets discussed at any time there is a conspiracy or this proves something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 04, 2020, 11:32:57 AM
It's a "media hoax"; 99% exaggerated since it has 1% mortality at most (most likely 0.1 %).

At worst, hydroxychloroquin makes it disappear in no time without any side effects but ™Big Pharma™ won't have you take it so easily since it's bad for their business.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on June 04, 2020, 11:53:44 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2020, 03:45:17 AM
"The establishment."  :lol:

The relative numbers of peaceful protestors and looters and smashers seems pretty irrelevant to me.  The fact that people are choosing to take advantage of the situation and enrich themselves doesn't change the facts of facts of Floyd George's death, or the sincerity of the people protesting.  For what it's worth the peaceful protestors seem much more numerous.

In Portland, an estimated 10,000 peaceful protesters walked the streets for hours yesterday, most leaving around 9pm. At around 9pm, an estimated 100-150 people were at a fence barricading the Justice Center. A handful started throwing bottles and rocks at the fence, and the police unleashed on all of the people there.

Our news stations showed both with about equal air time. On Twitter, you only see the beat down by the police.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: fromtia on June 04, 2020, 11:54:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 04, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
What is this bizarre narrative about the coronavirus? If anything else gets discussed at any time there is a conspiracy or this proves something?

Oof that one is everywhere. "and just like that covid19 disappears" . Fuck off you morons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 04, 2020, 12:00:10 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 04, 2020, 11:28:19 AMFrom the usual suspect.

Dude, we don't know who your friends are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 04, 2020, 12:07:26 PM
Quote from: The Larch on June 04, 2020, 12:00:10 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 04, 2020, 11:28:19 AMFrom the usual suspect.

Dude, we don't know who your friends are.

Not a friend ; I was referring to the meme source previously alluded (the Brown Eye according to the Brain).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 04, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
I guess where they almost have a bit of point is that before the riots there wasn't any other news but Covid-19. Now it is relegated to second spot if mentioned at all. Plus, whereas there was a big bruhaha about keeping things closed and keeping social distancing, suddenly nobody (on the "unamerican" side) is bothered by crowds of thousands/tens of thousands.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 04, 2020, 12:12:48 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 04, 2020, 12:07:26 PM
Quote from: The Larch on June 04, 2020, 12:00:10 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 04, 2020, 11:28:19 AMFrom the usual suspect.

Dude, we don't know who your friends are.

Not a friend ; I was referring to the meme source previously alluded (the Brown Eye according to the Brain).

I have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 04, 2020, 12:20:23 PM
If you have not been following the thread, that's not a surprise.  :P

Quote
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 29, 2020, 06:05:58 AM
Back to topic, a more subtle, or less stupid (take your pick) meme, from that great fountain of knowledge called Third Eye Open which grants you critical thinker status since you do not rely on mainstream media:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on June 04, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 04, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
I guess where they almost have a bit of point is that before the riots there wasn't any other news but Covid-19. Now it is relegated to second spot if mentioned at all. Plus, whereas there was a big bruhaha about keeping things closed and keeping social distancing, suddenly nobody (on the "unamerican" side) is bothered by crowds of thousands/tens of thousands.
It's hardly surprising that people facing down riot troops aren't very risk-averse when it comes to physical safety.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 04, 2020, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: Maximus on June 04, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 04, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
I guess where they almost have a bit of point is that before the riots there wasn't any other news but Covid-19. Now it is relegated to second spot if mentioned at all. Plus, whereas there was a big bruhaha about keeping things closed and keeping social distancing, suddenly nobody (on the "unamerican" side) is bothered by crowds of thousands/tens of thousands.
It's hardly surprising that people facing down riot troops aren't very risk-averse when it comes to physical safety.

Obviously, but what I think these "memes" aim at is the fact that from their point of view there was a lot of media shrilling over people not wanting to go along with lockdowns. But now that thousands defy those lockdowns, the same media ignore this fact.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 04, 2020, 04:58:49 PM
With corona I'm mostly seeing the fasc trying to take the high ground. Putting down the protestors for not obeying lockdown and clearly wanting to kill people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 05, 2020, 06:58:52 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 04, 2020, 12:20:23 PM
If you have not been following the thread, that's not a surprise.  :P

Quote
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 29, 2020, 06:05:58 AM
Back to topic, a more subtle, or less stupid (take your pick) meme, from that great fountain of knowledge called Third Eye Open which grants you critical thinker status since you do not rely on mainstream media:

I skip most of the text and discussion, I only enter here to lose my faith in humanity by seeing what people share online.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 06, 2020, 02:13:01 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fz8GDhhS/tubby.jpg)

No comment on use of excessive force by police, but:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101664780_1186889701657483_2356042050098429952_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=5u_2JThRNTEAX-bxEse&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cb3509fd40d4917e3e78b7a1829a6b5a&oe=5F028505)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 06, 2020, 02:31:15 AM
Don't get me wrong, it's fine to mourn police killed or injured by criminals. However, if your timeline these days consists only of covering violence against police, and none by the police, then I feel there is "a bit" of a bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 06, 2020, 04:09:54 AM
Is that true? I've not seen any reports of police deaths.

Or is typical righty sneak and they're counting cops killed in shoot outs with drug dealers in the middle of the desert as somehow relevant to this BLM business?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: bogh on June 06, 2020, 05:44:59 AM
They are saying the combined number of injured and dead cops is 70. Dead could be zero and it still works.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 06, 2020, 06:48:52 AM
Probably quite a few paper cuts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 06, 2020, 07:20:19 AM
Found on Twitter:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZy2HxHU0AI7IHb?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 06, 2020, 11:46:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101803840_10158346918524361_5889963861624225792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=tUCUZ5wp65IAX8stPyq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=825b16394523232560156ed56ccdc641&oe=5EFFF91C)


(https://i.postimg.cc/8z7C1CbW/Floyd.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 06, 2020, 12:13:16 PM
Wow, three funerals?  He's really got it made.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2020, 12:20:44 PM
Really? I guess everything is about Trump to some people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 11, 2020, 12:19:58 AM
To give this "gem" its proper forum.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18555954_1312015838915271_6633202158662477975_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=ubBF93g_abUAX-UK15m&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8c06adb6b17515193b0afb17990f6597&oe=5F06B22A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2020, 01:54:44 AM
Oh yeah here it comes. We get to do this again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 11, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
I'm noticing an odd number of shitty memes around about how some black people had slaves too.
Like....
Yeah?
And?

Is it just me or is the fasc's obsession with whataboutism getting worse and worse?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2020, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 11, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
I'm noticing an odd number of shitty memes around about how some black people had slaves too.
Like....
Yeah?
And?

Is it just me or is the fasc's obsession with whataboutism getting worse and worse?

I mean yeah those slaves were almost entirely captured and sold by Africans. But so what? If we were Nigerians or whatever that would be an issue we would have to deal with, but we aren't so that is their issue. Why bring it up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 11, 2020, 02:13:24 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103796108_10222563265611751_3900208502215587964_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Xs99l0qs1iAAX9DdjkJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f70b1f81e4691cabbc1f2524505ed076&oe=5F099604)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 11, 2020, 02:19:01 PM
Also you need to pay for roads out your own pocket.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2020, 02:32:52 PM
If you eat chickens that means you also should feast on the beating hearts of human babies. If you eat something you can eat other things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 11, 2020, 02:35:49 PM
I like the decision of the meme to equate people calling for defunding the police with people on welfare or food stamps (which my oldest sister's family also benefited from for years in the past).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 11, 2020, 02:43:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2020, 02:32:52 PM
If you eat chickens that means you also should feast on the beating hearts of human babies. If you eat something you can eat other things.

That's run of the mill vegan propaganda, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2020, 02:47:35 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 11, 2020, 02:43:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2020, 02:32:52 PM
If you eat chickens that means you also should feast on the beating hearts of human babies. If you eat something you can eat other things.

That's run of the mill vegan propaganda, right?

Probably. I just get so annoyed by the connecting of unrelated things with specious logic that is so common in these "memes".

If you pay to get your haircut that means you should support human trafficking and racketeering. If you can pay for one type of service you should be able to pay for them all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 11, 2020, 07:15:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2020, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 11, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
I'm noticing an odd number of shitty memes around about how some black people had slaves too.
Like....
Yeah?
And?

Is it just me or is the fasc's obsession with whataboutism getting worse and worse?

I mean yeah those slaves were almost entirely captured and sold by Africans. But so what? If we were Nigerians or whatever that would be an issue we would have to deal with, but we aren't so that is their issue. Why bring it up?
Some Black Southerners held slaves because it was easier to have a "slave" than a freedperson when they wanted to liberate their family and work on a plantation themselves.
This is where this story comes from.  Not to say that some blacks could not have owned slaves the same way the whites where, but that was the majority situation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 11, 2020, 10:49:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 11, 2020, 07:15:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2020, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 11, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
I'm noticing an odd number of shitty memes around about how some black people had slaves too.
Like....
Yeah?
And?

Is it just me or is the fasc's obsession with whataboutism getting worse and worse?

I mean yeah those slaves were almost entirely captured and sold by Africans. But so what? If we were Nigerians or whatever that would be an issue we would have to deal with, but we aren't so that is their issue. Why bring it up?
Some Black Southerners held slaves because it was easier to have a "slave" than a freedperson when they wanted to liberate their family and work on a plantation themselves.
This is where this story comes from.  Not to say that some blacks could not have owned slaves the same way the whites where, but that was the majority situation.

Wait... what?

The majority of black slaveowners probably held and used slave just like white slaveowners.  There certainly were cases of black slaveowners who held a few slaves (often family members) whom they couldn't legally manumit except in their wills, but they were unusual enough to be notable.  Most slaves were not related to their owners and were used as labor, just as they would under a white owner. This was especially common in Louisiana.

It is just possible,  though, (records are not good enough to say for sure) that the majority of slaveowners had a personal interest in their slaves, but that the majority of the slaves of black slaveowners had no personal interest in their owner.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 11, 2020, 11:57:19 PM
One whataboutism I haven't seen is that it's almost certain that all of us had slave ancestors, considering what a time honored tradition it was throughout most of history. Then again that's not a thought these people would be comfortable with, I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 12, 2020, 12:05:46 AM
I'm not sure why they shouldn't.

Heck, the very word "slave" comes from the name of their tribe.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2020, 12:20:42 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2020, 11:57:19 PM
One whataboutism I haven't seen is that it's almost certain that all of us had slave ancestors, considering what a time honored tradition it was throughout most of history. Then again that's not a thought these people would be comfortable with, I guess.

I mean it is almost certain that all of us had slave owning ancestors as well.

And unless it affects your life somehow it is only a historical curiosity. Which is what hopefully American slave owning in the 19th century will be someday.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 12, 2020, 02:49:48 AM
Reposted by my sis.

QuoteSam Wood

  · Shared with Public
You take a knee and even though it's your right I don't agree with the action I am racist.

You riot and loot and because I am against it I am a racist.

I say all lives matter and I am a racist.

You destroy monuments that have no meaning to you but to me they are sacred and you still think I am racist. 

Well the hell with you and your MOVEMENTS. You don't know shit about me or my fellow veterans.

ALL LIVES MATTER AND OUR FREEDOM IS SACRED.  You play your bullshit games and twist shit to meet a bullshit agenda. You talk about sacrifice but have no clue what real sacrifice is. Men and women of the armed forces have been called on to defend a foreign land is that racist? Men and women of the armed forces have been called upon to defend other religions besides their own is that racist? Men and women of the armed forces have been called upon to defend people of another color is that racist? Called upon to defend freedom is that racist? 

We been given shitty medical care, we been called names, yet we are the ones that protect and give you freedom, we give you safety and protect those that need protecting no matter what color, religion or nationality.

What do we get in return? Our monuments to those that gave the ultimate sacrifice destroyed. The places we gather to try and make sense of all this bullshit destroyed because of what? A bad man killed another man. Oh what that's not an agenda. A BAD cop killed a man. Oh shit I am sorry let's justify these pictures A BAD WHITE COP KILLED A BLACK MAN. There that justifies desiccating and destroying these monuments. BULLSHIT that doesn't fly with me but hey I am a racist remember.  The color of my skin made sure I never had a hardship in my GREAT WHITE PRIVILEGED LIFE.
Veterans get to watch some asshole that makes millions of dollars take a knee for some injustice he never experienced. We get to be told it's not disrespectful to us it's towards the meaning of bullshit political movement that THEY MAKE UP and OUR meaning and feelings are not taken seriously. 

We get to watch some Asshole burn, shit on or step on the flag for some bullshit political protest and if we say we don't agree with the flag that has given us a sense of brotherhood and has been draped over the coffins of our dead being desiccated we are told it's not against us but some bullshit political made up meaning.

We get told by politicians that the freedom we swore to defend is not their definition of freedom. We are labeled as over the top, ptsd ridden or just disturbed.

YOU ALL NEED TO STRAIGHTEN YOUR SHIT UP BECAUSE IF YOU PUSH HARD ENOUGH VETERANS MAY HAVE A MOVEMENT AND TRUST ME THE SHIT WILL GET REAL. 

Don't think we are not watching and don't think we will sit on the sidelines forever.  We all made a decision, swore an oath and wrote the check and trust me we know the meaning and it is NOT SOME BULLSHIT POLITICAL AGENDA THAT IS MADE TO DIVIDE.  We know what UNITY is. We know what sacrifice is and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE, COLOR, NATIONALITY or POLITICS it has to do with BROTHERHOOD.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 12, 2020, 03:03:53 AM
I think it's unlikely that some barely coherent nincompoops have the ability to turn excrement into reality.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 12, 2020, 11:22:46 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103149365_1402204033322635_1350304742529358131_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=64ryAUgxgzMAX-m65T9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f4b2c321661e1e9bb194d3d1a1f80913&oe=5F0A2B6E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 12, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Somehow that feels untrue. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 12, 2020, 11:30:27 AM
Isn't the whole basis of their bullshit make America great AGAIN?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 12, 2020, 11:41:41 AM
The past is nothing.
Culture is only about today not antecedents.
I got mine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 12, 2020, 11:48:39 AM
Obviously it's not true in an "owned" sense. Do they mean pwned? Even then I feel it's unlikely to be true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 12, 2020, 12:28:16 PM
Where are the statues that being destroyed that are dedicated to living soldiers?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on June 12, 2020, 12:39:51 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2020, 11:57:19 PM
One whataboutism I haven't seen is that it's almost certain that all of us had slave ancestors, considering what a time honored tradition it was throughout most of history. Then again that's not a thought these people would be comfortable with, I guess.

I know for a fact that at least one of mine did. :( I found the census that shows one of my mom's line to have owned at least two slaves in Georgia in the mid-1800s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2020, 12:55:11 PM
Quote from: merithyn on June 12, 2020, 12:39:51 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2020, 11:57:19 PM
One whataboutism I haven't seen is that it's almost certain that all of us had slave ancestors, considering what a time honored tradition it was throughout most of history. Then again that's not a thought these people would be comfortable with, I guess.

I know for a fact that at least one of mine did. :( I found the census that shows one of my mom's line to have owned at least two slaves in Georgia in the mid-1800s.

If you go back to the 18th century you will probably find many more owned slaves. It was more of a middle class thing back then.

But Tamas was saying we had slave ancestors. Which we do. But so what?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 12, 2020, 01:14:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2020, 12:55:11 PM

But Tamas was saying we had slave ancestors. Which we do. But so what?

I think the "so what" was part of his point...implied in his questioning why that "whataboutism" hasn't been used a lot recently.  I think it has been in the past, but usually rolled into the whataboutism that usually reads as "what about compensation for the enslavement of my ancestors in ancient Rome?".  Or the other "mild" forms of slavery that dodged the label (i.e. indentured servitude/serfdom).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2020, 01:15:54 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on June 12, 2020, 01:14:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2020, 12:55:11 PM

But Tamas was saying we had slave ancestors. Which we do. But so what?

I think the "so what" was part of his point.  That that "whataboutism" hasn't been used a lot recently.  I think it has been in the past, but usually rolled into the whataboutism that usually reads as "what about compensation for the enslavement of my ancestors in ancient Rome?".

Or the Irish indentured servants!!!11
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 12, 2020, 01:17:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2020, 01:15:54 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on June 12, 2020, 01:14:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2020, 12:55:11 PM

But Tamas was saying we had slave ancestors. Which we do. But so what?

I think the "so what" was part of his point.  That that "whataboutism" hasn't been used a lot recently.  I think it has been in the past, but usually rolled into the whataboutism that usually reads as "what about compensation for the enslavement of my ancestors in ancient Rome?".

Or the Irish indentured servants!!!11

You beat my edit.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 12, 2020, 01:22:10 PM
One thing I did not realize before that became a thing a couple years ago was that only the Irish were ever indentured.

Of course I guess if being indentured is being a slave then I guess everybody descended from craftsmen has slave ancestors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 12, 2020, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on June 12, 2020, 01:14:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 12, 2020, 12:55:11 PM

But Tamas was saying we had slave ancestors. Which we do. But so what?

I think the "so what" was part of his point...implied in his questioning why that "whataboutism" hasn't been used a lot recently.

Yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 12, 2020, 01:47:44 PM
I guess the etymology of serf, from servus, slave in Classical Latin, is often ignored.

However, the serf category finds its origin mostly in the status degradation of the Colonus (tenant farmer/colonist) of the Late Roman Empire.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 12, 2020, 02:16:44 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 11, 2020, 10:49:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 11, 2020, 07:15:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 11, 2020, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 11, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
I'm noticing an odd number of shitty memes around about how some black people had slaves too.
Like....
Yeah?
And?

Is it just me or is the fasc's obsession with whataboutism getting worse and worse?

I mean yeah those slaves were almost entirely captured and sold by Africans. But so what? If we were Nigerians or whatever that would be an issue we would have to deal with, but we aren't so that is their issue. Why bring it up?
Some Black Southerners held slaves because it was easier to have a "slave" than a freedperson when they wanted to liberate their family and work on a plantation themselves.
This is where this story comes from.  Not to say that some blacks could not have owned slaves the same way the whites where, but that was the majority situation.

Wait... what?

The majority of black slaveowners probably held and used slave just like white slaveowners.  There certainly were cases of black slaveowners who held a few slaves (often family members) whom they couldn't legally manumit except in their wills, but they were unusual enough to be notable.  Most slaves were not related to their owners and were used as labor, just as they would under a white owner. This was especially common in Louisiana.

It is just possible,  though, (records are not good enough to say for sure) that the majority of slaveowners had a personal interest in their slaves, but that the majority of the slaves of black slaveowners had no personal interest in their owner.

I can't find my source anymore.  It was an academic site, but I haven't bookmarked it.  So I'll retract my statement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 12, 2020, 02:20:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 12, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Somehow that feels untrue. :hmm:
the last part is true.  I don't think they thought about it real hard, though.  It could very well apply to the people venerating the Confederate flag and the statues of Jefferson Davis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 14, 2020, 01:33:28 AM
QuoteBarbara Rew
· Shared with Public

I wonder why this issue of racial inequality wasn't fixed when we had a black president in office for 8 years???
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 14, 2020, 10:00:12 AM
That quote in your signature line is great
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 14, 2020, 10:49:08 AM
Thanks, it's by John Rogers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 14, 2020, 11:21:13 AM
Defunding the police = fascism. Also, Nazis = Socialists.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103892794_4056914044348780_2794319926347272823_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=KBVkhYjyykQAX_htAht&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=70b1647c43ed0e24ba75cc52cb731e44&oe=5F0BD53D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 14, 2020, 11:34:48 AM
It's bad enough when your sisters mangle our history, but I figured they would know their own history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 14, 2020, 11:57:10 AM
:bleeding:
A new high.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 14, 2020, 12:00:23 PM
Considering that the nazis increased police funding and powers it's a bit embarrassing, really.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 14, 2020, 12:06:13 PM
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 15, 2020, 12:50:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101840063_1611680579008185_399812947935322608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=2LZ55p_P-kYAX-X17q2&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=41543c00f10e8330c6c148b7efba6de7&oe=5F0DCFE6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 08:06:10 AM
Goddamnit how did we get back on this statue bullshit again?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2020, 08:07:20 AM
Statue of Washington spray painted with slave owner in Chicago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 15, 2020, 08:21:22 AM
It's not factually wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 08:23:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 08:21:22 AM
It's not factually wrong.

Their style of pizza is morally wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 15, 2020, 09:02:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 12:50:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101840063_1611680579008185_399812947935322608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=2LZ55p_P-kYAX-X17q2&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=41543c00f10e8330c6c148b7efba6de7&oe=5F0DCFE6)

They nicely sum up the whole point of the protests here
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 15, 2020, 11:22:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104159863_1705787549570087_9014453605768315298_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=Sb4Wj3DqFLcAX_B5lpT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d591c1f4a2e074f5f0326019222a9f09&oe=5F0DCB24)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Gm94QRpY/popo.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 15, 2020, 01:11:41 PM
Related to the statue thing right now:
(https://i.redd.it/8s6xl3ohq0551.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 01:14:42 PM
It is a bit sad that they think it is merely because some group finds the statue offensive.

But false equivalency has never once stopped them, so no reason to be surprised here either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:32:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 11:22:19 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gm94QRpY/popo.jpg)

This strikes me more about a failure of civics classes than anything else. The Police don't decide whether or not you broke the law, the courts do. If the police magically only ever bothered people who broke the law there would be no need for a trial.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:33:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:32:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 11:22:19 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gm94QRpY/popo.jpg)

This strikes me more about a failure of civics classes than anything else. The Police don't decide whether or not you broke the law, the courts do. If the police magically only ever bothered people who broke the law there would be no need for a trial.

How? You don't get a trial when you're dead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:34:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2020, 08:07:20 AM
Statue of Washington spray painted with slave owner in Chicago.

Fair but that statue is not being removed. This is gold to the right wing, it is far easier to get people on their side about statues than about the police killing people. I wish we were not providing them with this distraction, this is their favorite tactic to win these debates: to transfer it to something else. And lives are at stake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 15, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:32:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 11:22:19 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gm94QRpY/popo.jpg)

This strikes me more about a failure of civics classes than anything else. The Police don't decide whether or not you broke the law, the courts do. If the police magically only ever bothered people who broke the law there would be no need for a trial.

You're making the wrong assumption. They think that if police bother you you must have broken the law, or at least something to draw attention. They don't consider that just being black can be enough to draw attention.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 15, 2020, 01:43:57 PM
You know I was curious if there actually are any statues of Bill Clinton.  He is a kind of polarizing figure even in his time.

So I turned on the Google machine.  Turns out there is a 11 foot high statue of Bill... in Pristina, Kosovo! :lol:  They even named the whole street after him.

The only other one I could find was a statue of Bill in downtown Rapid City, South Dakota, where they have a whole bunch of presidential statues as some kind of tourist attraction.


As for Obama, in addition to also having a statue in Rapid City, I found that he has a statue of him in Indonesia as a ten year old boy, and a statue of him and Michelle outside of a Circle K gas station in Tiperary, Ireland. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:44:59 PM
Well if anybody should have a statue of Bill it would be Kosovo.

Is that where those statues they want to get rid of are? Rapid City, South Dakota?

I mean if these people will get on board with BLM if we get rid of a few statues I am on board. I am sure Bill and Barry would be to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
You're making the wrong assumption. They think that if police bother you you must have broken the law, or at least something to draw attention. They don't consider that just being black can be enough to draw attention.

To be fair, both Floyd and Atlanta guy were breaking the law and under the influence. They were both being a nuisance.

That's not to say that they should have been executed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 01:46:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:44:59 PM
Well if anybody should have a statue of Bill it would be Kosovo.

Yep.  Not sure why BB found that funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:48:27 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
You're making the wrong assumption. They think that if police bother you you must have broken the law, or at least something to draw attention. They don't consider that just being black can be enough to draw attention.

To be fair, both Floyd and Atlanta guy were breaking the law and under the influence. They were both being a nuisance.

That's not to say that they should have been executed.

Were they? That is (was?) up to the courts to decide. Innocent until proven guilty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:48:27 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
You're making the wrong assumption. They think that if police bother you you must have broken the law, or at least something to draw attention. They don't consider that just being black can be enough to draw attention.

To be fair, both Floyd and Atlanta guy were breaking the law and under the influence. They were both being a nuisance.

That's not to say that they should have been executed.

Were they? That is (was?) up to the courts to decide. Innocent until proven guilty.

In many countries cops intervene when they see someone that appears to be breaking the law. They don't intervene randomly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 15, 2020, 01:50:33 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 01:46:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:44:59 PM
Well if anybody should have a statue of Bill it would be Kosovo.

Yep.  Not sure why BB found that funny.

Because when I tried to think of where there might be a Bill Clinton statue, I would never have thought of Kosovo.

Yes, makes sense when you think about it.  It just seemed so random though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
In many countries cops intervene when they see someone that appears to be breaking the law. They don't intervene randomly.

Right. When they suspect somebody is breaking the law. But suspecting is not convicting. I believe in civil rights of citizens.

Edit: Which is why the image there was just wrong. Maybe if Floyd had had his day in court he would have demonstrated he had broken no laws. Plenty of people are found innocent who the police suspected were breaking a law. But we will never know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
In many countries cops intervene when they see someone that appears to be breaking the law. They don't intervene randomly.

Right. When they suspect somebody is breaking the law. But suspecting is not convicting. I believe in civil rights of citizens.

So there is in fact a connection between breaking the law and cop intervention even in America?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 02:29:22 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
In many countries cops intervene when they see someone that appears to be breaking the law. They don't intervene randomly.

Right. When they suspect somebody is breaking the law. But suspecting is not convicting. I believe in civil rights of citizens.

So there is in fact a connection between breaking the law and cop intervention even in America?

Not necessarily, and that is sorta the point  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 02:52:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 02:29:22 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
In many countries cops intervene when they see someone that appears to be breaking the law. They don't intervene randomly.

Right. When they suspect somebody is breaking the law. But suspecting is not convicting. I believe in civil rights of citizens.

So there is in fact a connection between breaking the law and cop intervention even in America?

Not necessarily, and that is sorta the point  ;)

Sorta? Let's not get too informal on Languish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 02:52:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 02:29:22 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
In many countries cops intervene when they see someone that appears to be breaking the law. They don't intervene randomly.

Right. When they suspect somebody is breaking the law. But suspecting is not convicting. I believe in civil rights of citizens.

So there is in fact a connection between breaking the law and cop intervention even in America?

Not necessarily, and that is sorta the point  ;)

Sorta? Let's not get too informal on Languish.

Sorry, let me restate in Languish terms.  Why are you being so hopelessly obtuse about such an obvious point.

Better?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 03:02:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 02:52:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 02:29:22 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
In many countries cops intervene when they see someone that appears to be breaking the law. They don't intervene randomly.

Right. When they suspect somebody is breaking the law. But suspecting is not convicting. I believe in civil rights of citizens.

So there is in fact a connection between breaking the law and cop intervention even in America?

Not necessarily, and that is sorta the point  ;)

Sorta? Let's not get too informal on Languish.

Sorry, let me restate in Languish terms.  Why are you being so hopelessly obtuse about such an obvious point.

Better?

Yes, that's better. Thanks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 15, 2020, 03:28:58 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103610645_1195839780762475_9116971633128476656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=1Aw_CMvgiaMAX_GpjuS&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=60161251eda8c1d71c030e178784038b&oe=5F0F5053)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:48:27 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
You're making the wrong assumption. They think that if police bother you you must have broken the law, or at least something to draw attention. They don't consider that just being black can be enough to draw attention.

To be fair, both Floyd and Atlanta guy were breaking the law and under the influence. They were both being a nuisance.

That's not to say that they should have been executed.

Were they? That is (was?) up to the courts to decide. Innocent until proven guilty.

If I were to get outrageously drunk and fall asleep in my car having driven to a hamburger joint then someone would call Swedish police and they would arrest me. If I would attempt to fight them and become a threat they might shoot me. Not too long ago Swedish police killed a young boy with downs syndrome because they deemed him a threat. Horrible shit sometimes happens.

If I were to get high and hang around on a city street and someone called the police they might not even show. And if they show up I might get thrown into a cell for the night, for such minor infractions the police can decide for themselves without bothering the court. I would most assuredly not get tortured to death by slow strangulation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 03:42:51 PM
They really get on all the stuff being banned. I can't think of anything that has been banned. What is the one group of people who economic hardship is being blamed on?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
But of course, if I were to violently resist arrest anything can happen. I call that suicide attempt by cop, although I suspect that the suicide success rate differs between countries.

And again, torture to death when subdued seems to be something that happens in developing countries and the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 03:51:18 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
But of course, if I were to violently resist arrest anything can happen. I call that suicide attempt by cop, although I suspect that the suicide success rate differs between countries.

And again, torture to death when subdued seems to be something that happens in developing countries and the US.

I am sure many different interesting scenarios could play out if you do certain things in Sweden.

However the claim was made that so long as you do not break the law you will be left alone by the police, but it is not the job of the police to make that determination only to suspect you have broken the law. Clearly many people interact with the police who did not break the law.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Well, I haven't read any stories about random guys on the street being killed by cops, it mostly seems to happen when someone has called the cops for some reason.

My point was that if you happen to be arrested by the cops for any reason in any country some bad shit can happen if you violently resist arrest. Which was what happened to the guy in Atlanta.

Perhaps I am misinformed and US police regularly kills random people at random times without any cause besides skin colour?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on June 15, 2020, 04:05:38 PM
I would say you are misinformed, yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 15, 2020, 04:06:46 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Well, I haven't read any stories about random guys on the street being killed by cops, it mostly seems to happen when someone has called the cops for some reason.

My point was that if you happen to be arrested by the cops for any reason in any country some bad shit can happen if you violently resist arrest. Which was what happened to the guy in Atlanta.

Perhaps I am misinformed and US police regularly kills random people at random times without any cause besides skin colour?

Take Phillando Castille, one of the more egregious examples over the last few years.  From wiki:

QuoteCastile was pulled over as part of a traffic stop[25] by Yanez and Kauser in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, a suburb of Saint Paul.[26][9][22] Castile and Reynolds were returning from shopping at a grocery store; earlier that evening, Castile had gone for a haircut, eaten dinner with his sister, and picked up his girlfriend from his apartment in St. Paul.[27]

A St. Anthony police officer patrolling Larpenteur Avenue radioed to a nearby squad that he planned to pull over the car and check the IDs of the driver and passenger, saying, "The two occupants just look like people that were involved in a robbery. The driver looks more like one of our suspects, just because of the wide-set nose. I couldn't get a good look at the passenger."[28][29] At 9:04 p.m. CDT, the officer told a nearby officer that he would wait for him to make the stop.[28]

The stop took place on Larpenteur Avenue at Fry Street,[3] just outside the Minnesota state fairgrounds,[30] at about 9:05 p.m. CDT.[31] Riding in a [28] white 1997 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight LS[25][32] with Castile were his girlfriend, Diamond Reynolds, and her four-year-old daughter.[3][4] Castile was the driver, Reynolds was the front-seat passenger, and the child was in the back seat.[33] "According to investigators, Yanez approached the car from the driver's side, while Kauser approached it from the passenger side."[31]

The police dashcam video[34] shows that 40 seconds elapsed between when Yanez first started talking to Castile through the car window and when Yanez began shooting at him. According to the dashcam, after Yanez asked for Castile's driver's license and proof of insurance, Castile gave him his proof of insurance card, which Yanez appeared to glance at and tuck in his outer pocket. Castile then calmly informed Yanez: "Sir, I have to tell you that I do have a firearm on me."[35] Quoting the Star Tribune description of the next 13 seconds of the video:

Before Castile completed the sentence, Yanez interrupted and calmly replied, "OK," and placed his right hand on the holster of his own holstered weapon. Yanez said, "Okay, don't reach for it, then ... don't pull it out." Castile responded, "I'm not pulling it out," and Reynolds also said, "He's not pulling it out." Yanez repeated, raising his voice, "Don't pull it out!" as he quickly pulled his own gun with his right hand and reached inside the driver's window with his left hand. Reynolds screamed, "No!" Yanez removed his left arm from the car and fired seven shots in the direction of Castile in rapid succession. Reynolds yelled, "You just killed my boyfriend!" Castile moaned and said, "I wasn't reaching for it." Reynolds loudly said, "He wasn't reaching for it." Before she completed her sentence, Yanez again screamed, "Don't pull it out!" Reynolds responded, "He wasn't." Yanez yelled, "Don't move! Fuck!"[35]

Of the seven shots fired by Yanez at point blank range, five hit Castile and two of those hit and pierced his heart.[6] Events immediately after the shooting were streamed live in a 10-minute video by Reynolds via Facebook.[33] The recording appears to begin seconds after Castile was shot, just after 9:00 p.m. CDT.[9] The video depicts Castile slumped over, moaning and moving slightly, with a bloodied left arm and side.[33] In the video, Reynolds is speaking with Yanez and explaining what happened. Reynolds stated on the video that Yanez "asked him for license and registration. He told him that it was in his wallet, but he had a pistol on him because he's licensed to carry." Castile did have a license to carry a gun.[36] Reynolds further narrated that the officer said, "Don't move" and as Castile was putting his hands back up, the officer shot him in the arm four or five times. Reynolds told the officer, "You shot four bullets into him, sir. He was just getting his license and registration, sir."[3][26] Reynolds also said "Please don't tell me he's dead", while Yanez exclaimed: "I told him not to reach for it! I told him to get his hand open!"[28]

He was pulled over because the officer thought he looked like a suspect in a robbery.  He hadn't done anything wrong.  He did everything he was supposed to do.  He was shot dead anyways.

Officer was acquitted of murder by the jury.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 04:20:16 PM
Yes, but he was pulled over for a reason. That's just a fucked up story. Incompetent police and some idiot walking around with a gun for no reason, just a recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for police reform and I find the unnecessary killings horrible. I'm just saying that not all police shootings are unjustified, they are not all evil murderers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 15, 2020, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 04:20:16 PM
Yes, but he was pulled over for a reason. That's just a fucked up story. Incompetent police and some idiot walking around with a gun for no reason, just a recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for police reform and I find the unnecessary killings horrible. I'm just saying that not all police shootings are unjustified, they are not all evil murderers.

What a ridiculous post. I hope you'll maybe try to make sense with your next attempt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 04:33:16 PM
Nobody is claiming all police shooting are unjustified nor that all police are evil murderers. Well ok somebody might but that is a very small minority position.

Only that the ones that are unjustified need to be treated like the crimes they are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 15, 2020, 04:34:48 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 04:20:16 PM
Yes, but he was pulled over for a reason. That's just a fucked up story. Incompetent police and some idiot walking around with a gun for no reason, just a recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for police reform and I find the unnecessary killings horrible. I'm just saying that not all police shootings are unjustified, they are not all evil murderers.

The reason he was pulled over was "his broad nose made him look like a robbery suspect".  Castille didn't need a reason to carry a gun - he had the necessary permit to carry it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 15, 2020, 10:19:01 PM
Daniel Shaver was another case where it seems like the cop decided he was going to shoot someone that day, and just waited for the pretext to open up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 11:35:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 15, 2020, 04:34:48 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 04:20:16 PM
Yes, but he was pulled over for a reason. That's just a fucked up story. Incompetent police and some idiot walking around with a gun for no reason, just a recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for police reform and I find the unnecessary killings horrible. I'm just saying that not all police shootings are unjustified, they are not all evil murderers.

The reason he was pulled over was "his broad nose made him look like a robbery suspect".  Castille didn't need a reason to carry a gun - he had the necessary permit to carry it.

He had similarities with a suspect, why wouldn't the cops check him out? The cop was obviously badly trained and something of an idiot and the whole thing a tragedy.

The victim didn't need to carry a gun but he did because he lives in a weird society where it's acceptable for normal people to go around with lethal weapons for no good reason at all. That the could even get a permit to walk around with a gun is absurd, it's no wonder cops are nervous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 16, 2020, 01:12:52 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 01:14:42 PM
It is a bit sad that they think it is merely because some group finds the statue offensive.

But false equivalency has never once stopped them, so no reason to be surprised here either.

Also, Clinton's and Obama's presidencies were both longer than the Confederacy lasted. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 16, 2020, 01:16:16 AM
The Civil War was the longest four years in US history, up until 2016.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 16, 2020, 01:49:28 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 11:35:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 15, 2020, 04:34:48 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 04:20:16 PM
Yes, but he was pulled over for a reason. That's just a fucked up story. Incompetent police and some idiot walking around with a gun for no reason, just a recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for police reform and I find the unnecessary killings horrible. I'm just saying that not all police shootings are unjustified, they are not all evil murderers.

The reason he was pulled over was "his broad nose made him look like a robbery suspect".  Castille didn't need a reason to carry a gun - he had the necessary permit to carry it.

He had similarities with a suspect, why wouldn't the cops check him out? The cop was obviously badly trained and something of an idiot and the whole thing a tragedy.

The victim didn't need to carry a gun but he did because he lives in a weird society where it's acceptable for normal people to go around with lethal weapons for no good reason at all. That the could even get a permit to walk around with a gun is absurd, it's no wonder cops are nervous.

Right so you are a total idiot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on June 16, 2020, 02:17:57 AM
There's no point, garb. Let him live in his stupid bubble.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 07:21:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 16, 2020, 01:49:28 AM
Right so you are a total idiot.

I believe that if a police officer sees someone that he believes resembles some known hunted criminal it's quite reasonable that he investigates said someone.

I believe it unreasonable that civilians walk around with guns if they have no particular reason to do it.

I believe that many US police officers seem badly trained.

I believe that a society where everyone can be armed with hidden weapons it probably makes police a bit jumpy.

If that makes me an idiot, so be it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 16, 2020, 07:44:24 AM
No, that's not really what makes you an idiot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 07:59:12 AM
Ohh, are we playing clue?

Is it my lack of communication skills making me seem much colder than what I actually mean?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 16, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 01:48:27 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 15, 2020, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
You're making the wrong assumption. They think that if police bother you you must have broken the law, or at least something to draw attention. They don't consider that just being black can be enough to draw attention.

To be fair, both Floyd and Atlanta guy were breaking the law and under the influence. They were both being a nuisance.

That's not to say that they should have been executed.

Were they? That is (was?) up to the courts to decide. Innocent until proven guilty.
Floyd was breaking the law, he presented an apparently fake 20$ bill.  He cooperated up until they wanted to get him behind the car where he said he couldn't go because he was claustrophobic.  And from there, things escalated :(

I have read nothing that he was under the influence though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 16, 2020, 08:20:02 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2020, 03:42:51 PM
They really get on all the stuff being banned. I can't think of anything that has been banned. What is the one group of people who economic hardship is being blamed on?
These people believe there are roaming bands of Antifas in every city of the South, ready to deface a Jefferson Davis statue - or worst.
The Russians know as well as the leftist activists which point to trigger in these people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 16, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
I have read nothing that he was under the influence though.

Ohh, I was going on memory, I remembered it as if he was high and making a minor nuisance of himself. Counterfeit and theft is good enough reason to call the police. Not for them to murder him though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 16, 2020, 08:30:59 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 07:21:18 AM
I believe that if a police officer sees someone that he believes resembles some known hunted criminal it's quite reasonable that he investigates said someone.
I agree.  Up to the point where he pulls them over, see they have a 4 year old kid behind them and the guy specifically admits he has a gun and is reaching for his driver license just as the officer ordered him to do.

Quote
I believe it unreasonable that civilians walk around with guns if they have no particular reason to do it.
It's the Constitution, stupid. ;)What you find reasonable or not is irrelevant.  Their Constitution allows for the possession of guns, and in some places open carry.  That is part of the life and the police force should integrate it in their training.

QuoteI believe that many US police officers seem badly trained.
We're getting somewhere.

Quote
I believe that a society where everyone can be armed with hidden weapons it probably makes police a bit jumpy.
Again, irrelevant.  If police officers are nervous about that possibility, than they should join the ranks of those trying to reform the situation.  Which they don't seem to massively do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 08:38:47 AM
I completely agree.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 09:56:25 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 16, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Floyd was breaking the law, he presented an apparently fake 20$ bill.

That is an accusation not a conviction. Whether or not he was breaking the law had not yet been determined.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 16, 2020, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 09:56:25 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 16, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Floyd was breaking the law, he presented an apparently fake 20$ bill.

That is an accusation not a conviction. Whether or not he was breaking the law had not yet been determined.

It is not even an accusation with the word "apparently" being thrown in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 09:56:25 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 16, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Floyd was breaking the law, he presented an apparently fake 20$ bill.

That is an accusation not a conviction. Whether or not he was breaking the law had not yet been determined.

At which time a reasonable police force might arrest him to investigate the alleged crime. Or how would you have it?

The murder was an arrest gone horribly wrong, that doesn't mean that there was no reason for the arrest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 11:50:06 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 09:56:25 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 16, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Floyd was breaking the law, he presented an apparently fake 20$ bill.

That is an accusation not a conviction. Whether or not he was breaking the law had not yet been determined.

At which time a reasonable police force might arrest him to investigate the alleged crime. Or how would you have it?

The murder was an arrest gone horribly wrong, that doesn't mean that there was no reason for the arrest.

I was addressing the assertion in the image Syt published. That so long as you never break the law the police will leave you alone. This is not true. Being suspected of breaking the law and breaking the law are different and often it is circumstances outside of your control that puts you in the suspected category.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 16, 2020, 11:51:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/98210877_1983774478420963_1598941316991942656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pzyBedLleP8AX9ZCDuh&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8b1cf00ce71a715c5ee370b7a2adcefe&oe=5F0F19D8)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89918126_10206760408444606_5116896922602307584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6WsDQJoR3WoAX-hWhlS&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f71327f276915f79a0f37fbde161ba9d&oe=5F0C963C)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103680663_3014046885346576_2776505703055636220_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FeGndpgViVsAX9XeAIN&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7a02b231aee888c5f943422d35c010c4&oe=5F0F3CE4)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104310882_3720441487982464_2508761498382239858_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=kHf_1YuooYIAX_pBA1I&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6e82f1961d7325a48043225e9bbf0f09&oe=5F0EF1B5)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104163744_1379006458960830_6496641950938086681_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=9ljUrqpr_bkAX_ZXj1I&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=79f725f27c6b5fc1e69661541770fa45&oe=5F0E9703)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 11:52:37 AM
Ahh, sorry. I didn't quite catch that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 11:57:24 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2020, 11:51:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/98210877_1983774478420963_1598941316991942656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pzyBedLleP8AX9ZCDuh&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8b1cf00ce71a715c5ee370b7a2adcefe&oe=5F0F19D8)

The government doesn't want to disarm anybody, that would be an administrative and political and law enforcement nightmare and ruinously expensive. Odd they get confused between some of their fellow citizens wanting fewer guns and some kind of government conspiracy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2020, 11:51:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89918126_10206760408444606_5116896922602307584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6WsDQJoR3WoAX-hWhlS&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f71327f276915f79a0f37fbde161ba9d&oe=5F0C963C)

Well fortunately no political party is doing that Charlie Daniels unless wanting to beat a sitting President in an election is going to destroy his supporters somehow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 12:06:31 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2020, 11:51:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104163744_1379006458960830_6496641950938086681_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=9ljUrqpr_bkAX_ZXj1I&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=79f725f27c6b5fc1e69661541770fa45&oe=5F0E9703)

So nobody has ever been found innocent of a crime before according to your family?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 16, 2020, 12:18:28 PM
Quote
in 1989 this was considered "science fiction" .. but today not so unrealistic anymore, right? ;)

(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104055937_253973692692241_5092167019707006579_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=0tewTdCBMCsAX9qrcT6&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=8d304ab7f6b9d83a8a0a815b0561ef35&oe=5F0EB411)

I like the part about state takeover of economy (socialism!) and Hitler the Nazi socialist (sic).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 16, 2020, 12:19:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 12:06:31 PM
So nobody has ever been found innocent of a crime before according to your family?

I guess? Or if they were found innocent it's probably them damn liberal soft on crime judges!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 16, 2020, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2020, 11:51:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89918126_10206760408444606_5116896922602307584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6WsDQJoR3WoAX-hWhlS&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f71327f276915f79a0f37fbde161ba9d&oe=5F0C963C)

Well fortunately no political party is doing that Charlie Daniels unless wanting to beat a sitting President in an election is going to destroy his supporters somehow.
The GOP from 2008 to 2016 though...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 12:20:35 PM
The only thing in there that has happened is the homosexual stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 16, 2020, 12:22:46 PM
To change the tone, an upbeat one for a change, from Twitter.  :)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eao5RQrXYAYYiBr?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 16, 2020, 12:23:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 12:20:35 PM
The only thing in there that has happened is the homosexual stuff.

As I pointed out on FB (yes I have time to lose). Don't hold your breath though...

PS: N.W.O is still a cool Ministry song. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 16, 2020, 01:24:43 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 16, 2020, 12:18:28 PM
Quote
in 1989 this was considered "science fiction" .. but today not so unrealistic anymore, right? ;)

(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104055937_253973692692241_5092167019707006579_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=0tewTdCBMCsAX9qrcT6&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=8d304ab7f6b9d83a8a0a815b0561ef35&oe=5F0EB411)

I like the part about state takeover of economy (socialism!) and Hitler the Nazi socialist (sic).

Well one out of 10 anyway
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 16, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
A conspiracy book from 1989 is significant because..? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 01:27:54 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
A conspiracy book from 1989 is significant because..? :unsure:

It predicted something that probably many people could have predicted in 1989.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 16, 2020, 01:29:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 01:27:54 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
A conspiracy book from 1989 is significant because..? :unsure:

It predicted something that probably many people could have predicted in 1989.

Gay marriage - slippery slope to the government owning all the means of production  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 16, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 01:27:54 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
A conspiracy book from 1989 is significant because..? :unsure:

It predicted something that probably many people could have predicted in 1989.

Actually, it is significant because it comes from that pit of knowledge known as The Third Eye.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2020, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 01:27:54 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
A conspiracy book from 1989 is significant because..? :unsure:

It predicted something that probably many people could have predicted in 1989.


I wonder what it predicted about the Soviet Union.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 16, 2020, 02:26:02 PM
Book is still available, online resellers for instance.  :D
Check at your own peril.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 16, 2020, 03:18:51 PM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/102976498_254275412662069_3227619934171580349_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=mhBv8QDZWUcAX-3wzwo&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=13170bbf89c4872f8e831a7f03c91f72&oe=5F0D79C1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 03:20:20 PM
:lol:

It is a mystery :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 17, 2020, 02:57:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103796737_10219986626048376_2319060450056039289_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=G92bERIYdvsAX-jNWy9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=19c12cd4ec74f8b173e5580c66d2c820&oe=5F0E40D5)


Oh, and approving of police being judge, jury, and executioners:

QuoteMark Dalton
  · Shared with Public

Polk County Florida Sheriff - "You kill a policeman it means no arrest...no Miranda rights...no negotiations...nothing but as many bullets as we can shoot into you...PERIOD."

An illegal alien, in Polk County, Florida , who got pulled over in a routine traffic stop, ended up "executing" the deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot eight times, including once behind his right ear at close range. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed. A state-wide manhunt ensued.

The murderer was found hiding in a wooded area. As soon as he took a shot at the SWAT team, officers opened fire on him. They hit the guy 68 times.

Naturally, the liberal media went nuts and asked why they had to shoot the poor, undocumented immigrant 68 times.

Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel: "Because that's all the ammunition we had." Now, is that just about the all-time greatest answer or what!

The Coroner also reported that the illegal alien died of natural causes. When asked by a reporter how that could be, since there were 68 bullet wounds in his body, he simply replied: (BEST QUOTE ever) ...."When you are shot 68 times you are naturally gonna die."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 17, 2020, 05:15:56 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 07:59:12 AM
Ohh, are we playing clue?

Is it my lack of communication skills making me seem much colder than what I actually mean?

Many black people have wide-set noses. Is it reasonable for police to detain any black person nearby?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 17, 2020, 06:50:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2020, 05:15:56 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 07:59:12 AM
Ohh, are we playing clue?

Is it my lack of communication skills making me seem much colder than what I actually mean?

Many black people have wide-set noses. Is it reasonable for police to detain any black person nearby?

Huh? Cops shouldn't use descriptions of physical features when hunting suspects?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 17, 2020, 06:57:39 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 17, 2020, 06:50:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2020, 05:15:56 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 07:59:12 AM
Ohh, are we playing clue?

Is it my lack of communication skills making me seem much colder than what I actually mean?

Many black people have wide-set noses. Is it reasonable for police to detain any black person nearby?

Huh? Cops shouldn't use descriptions of physical features when hunting suspects?

So they should stop every black person nearby when hunting a suspect?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 17, 2020, 07:10:06 AM
Probably not. Point being?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 07:25:21 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 17, 2020, 02:57:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103796737_10219986626048376_2319060450056039289_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=G92bERIYdvsAX-jNWy9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=19c12cd4ec74f8b173e5580c66d2c820&oe=5F0E40D5)

One would think.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 17, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 17, 2020, 07:10:06 AM
Probably not. Point being?

I believe the point here is that in hierarchy of race in the US the notion among whites is "all blacks look the same" which allows the non-individualism of blacks and the ability to treat innocent, guilty, suspect, and passerby as the same - "likely criminal."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 17, 2020, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 17, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 17, 2020, 07:10:06 AM
Probably not. Point being?

I believe the point here is that in hierarchy of race in the US the notion among whites is "all blacks look the same" which allows the non-individualism of blacks and the ability to treat innocent, guilty, suspect, and passerby as the same - "likely criminal."
lots of people seem to have genuine difficulties in differentiating black males from one another, no specifically related to racism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 17, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 07:21:18 AM
I believe it unreasonable that civilians walk around with guns if they have no particular reason to do it.

You've said lots of dumb things, but this one struck me as particularly dumb.  How do you know his motivations for carrying a gun?  You claim that he had "no particular reason" to carry a gun, but I find your claims to mind-reading a dead person highly suspect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 17, 2020, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 17, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 17, 2020, 07:10:06 AM
Probably not. Point being?

I believe the point here is that in hierarchy of race in the US the notion among whites is "all blacks look the same" which allows the non-individualism of blacks and the ability to treat innocent, guilty, suspect, and passerby as the same - "likely criminal."
lots of people seem to have genuine difficulties in differentiating black males from one another, no specifically related to racism.

I don't find it that hard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 17, 2020, 05:13:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 17, 2020, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 17, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 17, 2020, 07:10:06 AM
Probably not. Point being?

I believe the point here is that in hierarchy of race in the US the notion among whites is "all blacks look the same" which allows the non-individualism of blacks and the ability to treat innocent, guilty, suspect, and passerby as the same - "likely criminal."
lots of people seem to have genuine difficulties in differentiating black males from one another, no specifically related to racism.

I don't find it that hard.

Nor do I.   Maybe if people just look at the person and not the skin color, they will be better able to perceive what they are seeing?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 17, 2020, 05:24:32 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 17, 2020, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 17, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 17, 2020, 07:10:06 AM
Probably not. Point being?

I believe the point here is that in hierarchy of race in the US the notion among whites is "all blacks look the same" which allows the non-individualism of blacks and the ability to treat innocent, guilty, suspect, and passerby as the same - "likely criminal."
lots of people seem to have genuine difficulties in differentiating black males from one another, no specifically related to racism.

lack of eyesight?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 17, 2020, 05:25:14 PM
There is such a thing as a cross-race effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 17, 2020, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 17, 2020, 05:25:14 PM
There is such a thing as a cross-race effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect.

Which explains why those of us who do not live in white ghettos don't have difficulty.

"as a person gains more experience with those of a particular race, he or she will begin to use more holistic processing."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 17, 2020, 05:41:50 PM
Definitely my experience in Japan. Big troubles at first but got over them. Though I kept being a victim of it.
Cops dealing with areas with a large black population really shouldn't have that problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on June 17, 2020, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 03:28:58 PM
*pic of rings*

Okay, this is disgusting. :mad: They've gone too fucking far with this shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on June 17, 2020, 05:54:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2020, 11:51:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89918126_10206760408444606_5116896922602307584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6WsDQJoR3WoAX-hWhlS&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f71327f276915f79a0f37fbde161ba9d&oe=5F0C963C)

Well fortunately no political party is doing that Charlie Daniels unless wanting to beat a sitting President in an election is going to destroy his supporters somehow.

I mean... That was McConnell's stated purpose in the Senate during the entire Obama administration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 18, 2020, 12:37:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104195467_3388927797784116_3632179729548575803_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=T2u70CJ2L7IAX9-ziFG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b43cd04b01cd19e76b97efb25ff7d887&oe=5F121850)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/103279755_3317003301643997_1072570775577492687_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=FBwXfaCTGNcAX90qSc9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f4b2b020890059f6b5071cdf13473b4e&oe=5F102042)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 18, 2020, 12:39:31 AM
Why is there some kind of weird lagoon in the background?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 18, 2020, 12:59:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 18, 2020, 12:37:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104195467_3388927797784116_3632179729548575803_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=T2u70CJ2L7IAX9-ziFG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b43cd04b01cd19e76b97efb25ff7d887&oe=5F121850)

Yet he shares their belief that white people have some sort of collective responsibility for other white people.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on June 18, 2020, 01:25:35 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 17, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 16, 2020, 07:21:18 AM
I believe it unreasonable that civilians walk around with guns if they have no particular reason to do it.

You've said lots of dumb things, but this one struck me as particularly dumb.  How do you know his motivations for carrying a gun?  You claim that he had "no particular reason" to carry a gun, but I find your claims to mind-reading a dead person highly suspect.

Damn grumbsy, that's harsh, I was just assuming. I don't really know of any good reasons for any ordinary civilian/non-police member of society to carry a hand gun on their persons around in daily life. Perhaps there are good reasons, I'm just not clever enough to see any. Therefore I assumed that he had no good reason to carry a gun.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 18, 2020, 02:07:34 AM
My sisters had shared a few posts that they support good cops and think bad cops need to be weeded out. Those posts seem to have disappeared. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 18, 2020, 10:40:36 PM
Quote from: Threviel on June 18, 2020, 01:25:35 AM
Damn grumbsy, that's harsh, I was just assuming. I don't really know of any good reasons for any ordinary civilian/non-police member of society to carry a hand gun on their persons around in daily life. Perhaps there are good reasons, I'm just not clever enough to see any. Therefore I assumed that he had no good reason to carry a gun. 

Since your argument was that "The victim didn't need to carry a gun but he did because he lives in a weird society where it's acceptable for normal people to go around with lethal weapons for no good reason at all" and this all just turns out to be a mere assumption on your part, your argument rather falls apart.  That you can't think of a good reason for something doesn't mean that you can make up a stupid reason and use that to lessen the guilt of the officers who murdered him.  I don't think calling stupid claims stupid is harsh at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 18, 2020, 10:42:30 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 18, 2020, 02:07:34 AM
My sisters had shared a few posts that they support good cops and think bad cops need to be weeded out. Those posts seem to have disappeared. :unsure:

They now know Antifa is behind it all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 18, 2020, 11:00:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 18, 2020, 10:42:30 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 18, 2020, 02:07:34 AM
My sisters had shared a few posts that they support good cops and think bad cops need to be weeded out. Those posts seem to have disappeared. :unsure:

They now know Antifa is behind it all.

They now know Canadian Tire is behind it all.   :ph34r:

Watch out for it's leader, Sandy McTire:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-tiGGQhExEXM%2FUPA0G2ap3XI%2FAAAAAAAAArc%2FMWkxOhJ0GwM%2Fs400%2Fcanadian_tire.png&hash=2681fb06199563308b9cbd82cce75210d650101b)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 19, 2020, 12:45:36 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104317122_10223418107180985_5012982162245734996_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lPxQ_U7gS78AX-Q-gS3&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ddd603a76fc2fdb269c8ba795bbe6cbe&oe=5F101097)


QuoteRebecca Hardiman
  · Shared with Public

Portland...Seattle...Minneapolis....Los Angeles.....New York.... I hope all the Police Officers quit, and never look back.  Let them have their twisted "Utopia" without Police Officers.

The cities across this Country that are defunding and disrespecting Police Officers - throwing them away like garbage, allowing Rioters to bludgeon them - and demand they stand-down against violent looters and anfifa who have commandeered major cities.  WOW. 

And the States that allow this actually think THIS is the side that most people are on?  THIS will win them votes?  THIS will make the world a better place? THIS will help them "get rid of Trump?"  Boy are they in for a huge surprise this Fall. #WalkAway
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 19, 2020, 12:55:09 AM
So many cities that are now under Canadian Tire's direct control.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 19, 2020, 12:57:10 AM
Is it me or is customer service going to hell in America?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 19, 2020, 04:53:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 17, 2020, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 17, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: Threviel on June 17, 2020, 07:10:06 AM
Probably not. Point being?

I believe the point here is that in hierarchy of race in the US the notion among whites is "all blacks look the same" which allows the non-individualism of blacks and the ability to treat innocent, guilty, suspect, and passerby as the same - "likely criminal."
lots of people seem to have genuine difficulties in differentiating black males from one another, no specifically related to racism.

I don't find it that hard.
me neither, but I do have a problem with names, independant of colour.

But some people focus on the hair/skin/eyes color to remember individual, so two black guys of similar shades&shape with black hair and brown eyes are hard to distinguish for them.  I never heard of anyone confusing Dwayne Johnson with Cuba Gooding Jr, though. :D 

Women tend to have more varieties on how they do their hair, might be why I hear this complaint less often with regards to women.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 19, 2020, 04:57:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 17, 2020, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 17, 2020, 05:25:14 PM
There is such a thing as a cross-race effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect.

Which explains why those of us who do not live in white ghettos don't have difficulty.

"as a person gains more experience with those of a particular race, he or she will begin to use more holistic processing."
I live in a white ghetto and I don't have this problem.

Besides, it's not the 1940s anymore, we do have high definition color-tv ;)  We are exposed to a large number of media personalities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 19, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 16, 2020, 01:29:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 01:27:54 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
A conspiracy book from 1989 is significant because..? :unsure:

It predicted something that probably many people could have predicted in 1989.

Gay marriage - slippery slope to the government owning all the means of production  :D
Well, I do remember back when it was legalized here, the Quebec civil unions, religious groups claimed all (legal) barriers stopping bestiality and pedophilia were now removed.

What is it with the ultra religious and their conspiracy theories?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 19, 2020, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 19, 2020, 12:55:09 AM
So many cities that are now under Canadian Tire's direct control.
First, we came for Burger King and you said nothing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 20, 2020, 10:53:08 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 19, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 16, 2020, 01:29:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2020, 01:27:54 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 16, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
A conspiracy book from 1989 is significant because..? :unsure:

It predicted something that probably many people could have predicted in 1989.

Gay marriage - slippery slope to the government owning all the means of production  :D
Well, I do remember back when it was legalized here, the Quebec civil unions, religious groups claimed all (legal) barriers stopping bestiality and pedophilia were now removed.

What is it with the ultra religious and their conspiracy theories?

Not just the ultra-right. Last Friday, Arte TV French Journal (very socially progressive at least in posing) claimed that what they described as a "ban of gender theory teaching" was a victory for the ™Catholic™ lobby in, guess where, Romania!  :lmfao: Yes, an Orthodox majority country.

https://www.arte.tv/fr/videos/091304-123-A/arte-journal/ (https://www.arte.tv/fr/videos/091304-123-A/arte-journal/) around '9"45
It does not stay for long, 24h so ending today, so they can get away with it.

If you want bi-partisan conspiracy theories, just have a look at anti-vaccination people. In France, it was pushed by the n°2 of the very lefty Greens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 20, 2020, 03:08:42 PM
ah yeah, anti-vax is both extremes are against it.  That is so mind boggling to see antifas and KKK types marching together :P

The video wasn't available anymore.  24hr is kinda quick to take it down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 20, 2020, 03:37:36 PM
QuoteSheriff Ralph Kersey
  · Shared with Public

Sheriff D. Clarke says it best!

It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, mobile phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault', 'you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility.

When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.

Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colours, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.

They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.

They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.

Many law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.

If you want to protect your child, teach them respect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 20, 2020, 03:46:10 PM
Extensive training? Relatively low pay? If he ever hears about Sweden he'll have an an... ane... he'll freak out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 21, 2020, 07:05:17 PM
Important message from Woodstock police:
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104427402_3005780306155049_4782405183746461724_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_oc=AQneEYZSMZx3nCtpigwXnplEB9Tsyjp5tdHCm8s1T6KrUwqT-2TMBugT_LQ2n0MwZM8&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=d696d192f73d85579cb189540a80fae9&oe=5F14B419)

Quote***Unsafe load leads to charge of Careless Driving***

Woodstock, ON - On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at approximately 1:30 pm., the Woodstock Police uniform patrol and the Traffic unit responded to the area of Dundas Street, W., in the area of the 11th Line after receiving calls in relation to a vehicle pulling a hot tub down the road.

Police responded to the area and located a Porsche pulling a hot tub with a homemade cart. The 54-year-old male driver was charged with Careless Driving.

Police want to remind drivers of their responsibility to ensure that any load they are towing is done safely. Constable D'Annibale of the Woodstock Police Traffic unit states, "All drivers on the roads should have a safe environment when travelling. Towing items such as trailers with larger items have the potential to cause a dangerous situation for everyone using the roadway". The Highway Traffic Act and the Ministry of Transportation provide specifications and requirements when carrying a load safely. "Had this hot tub became unattached from the homemade trailer that it was being towed on, would have caused serious damage and injury to anyone in its path".

Before towing a trailer, the driver must:
· Ensure the trailer is registered
· Make sure the trailer is in good condition
· Requires strong brakes to stop and hold the trailer
· Must have proper lights
· Must have two separate ways of attaching the trailer to your vehicle
· Need to use a good trailer hitch
· Carry a safe load that is balanced evenly

https://twitter.com/Woodstock_PS/status/1273718769957908480 (https://twitter.com/Woodstock_PS/status/1273718769957908480)

:huh: :D :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 21, 2020, 10:00:03 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 20, 2020, 03:37:36 PM
QuoteSheriff Ralph Kersey
  · Shared with Public

Sheriff D. Clarke says it best!

It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, mobile phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault', 'you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility.

When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.

Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colours, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.

They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.

They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.

Many law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.

If you want to protect your child, teach them respect.

Ok so we have a society with no respect for boundaries or civil responsibility yet somehow this hasn't impacted the police at all who are somehow immune even though they came from these same communities. So therefore no reform is necessary.

I would think the basic assumption: that children coming up have no sense of personal responsibility or civic responsibility would therefore make us even more vigilant about our police forces not less.

I don't agree with that assumption but he seems to want it both ways. That some how bad parenting is making civilians worse but not cops. How is that possible?

And his basically saying be compliant or expect to get killed doesn't really strike me as an inspiring civil minded arguement respective personal responsibility. It sounds like a bunchn of excuse making for somebody who wants to avoid it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 23, 2020, 09:47:59 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83220027_3694092197284265_5335095505328193903_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=p_zKxmOWpOsAX9IpKZ7&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=721ee86a9c825f024d609bee88c06ef0&oe=5F179BBA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 09:59:45 AM
Ok, what is so objectionable about that statement?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 23, 2020, 10:03:02 AM
"If you're black and poor, it's nobody's but your own fucking fault. Society isn't against you, and I have no responsibility in helping engender change."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 10:06:00 AM
He may think that, but it's not what he said.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 23, 2020, 10:06:39 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 10:06:00 AM
He may think that, but it's not what he said.

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 10:08:03 AM
Right, get back to mocking straw men.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 23, 2020, 10:44:40 AM
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104637782_10222477430873937_1976542005168181732_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=ndTIkN6oSxYAX8HS5nH&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=e6c6d6279c2adbe4c605fd40233278f3&oe=5F15EE67)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 23, 2020, 10:45:47 AM
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 23, 2020, 11:14:03 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 10:08:03 AM
Right, get back to mocking straw men.

The entire "let's be clear" post was a straw man, where is wasn't spouting inane tautologies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 23, 2020, 11:15:33 AM
Is GOD an acronym?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 23, 2020, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 23, 2020, 11:15:33 AM
Is GOD an acronym?

Used to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gathering_of_Developers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gathering_of_Developers)

QuoteGathering of Developers, Inc. (shortened as G.O.D. or GodGames, and branded as Gathering between 2003 and 2004) was an American video game publisher based in New York City.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 23, 2020, 12:00:26 PM
GOD is eternal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 23, 2020, 12:09:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 09:59:45 AM
Ok, what is so objectionable about that statement?

"I will protect myself and mine from your racist hatred"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 23, 2020, 11:14:03 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 10:08:03 AM
Right, get back to mocking straw men.

The entire "let's be clear" post was a straw man, where is wasn't spouting inane tautologies.

Perhaps. We lack any context.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 23, 2020, 02:40:30 PM
It was posted on Syt's facebook feed by one of his relatives. There's your context.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 23, 2020, 03:14:52 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 23, 2020, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 23, 2020, 11:15:33 AM
Is GOD an acronym?

Used to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gathering_of_Developers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gathering_of_Developers)

QuoteGathering of Developers, Inc. (shortened as G.O.D. or GodGames, and branded as Gathering between 2003 and 2004) was an American video game publisher based in New York City.
GOD died.
GOG survived, but not in the land of Magog.
Hence why we have no apocalypse?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 23, 2020, 06:28:28 PM
What does GOD need with an acronym?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 23, 2020, 06:35:39 PM
Generic Omnipotent Deity is a mouthful.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 23, 2020, 07:12:17 PM
What if God was one of us?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 23, 2020, 07:32:49 PM
Then he'd better be wearing a mask when he takes public transportation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 23, 2020, 07:54:22 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 23, 2020, 11:14:03 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 23, 2020, 10:08:03 AM
Right, get back to mocking straw men.

The entire "let's be clear" post was a straw man, where is wasn't spouting inane tautologies.

Perhaps. We lack any context.


We have context.  It's about race.  I thought that part was obvious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 24, 2020, 01:33:25 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 23, 2020, 07:32:49 PM
Then he'd better be wearing a mask when he takes public transportation.

^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 26, 2020, 02:51:51 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104547016_10223426278715431_695323153490422398_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=q9ApukJ0IUEAX9bvJVT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=aa098981162dc3c94c78ceaab86924a5&oe=5F1B533C)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82966053_3136672829733801_8862940792081504861_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_O5iudWiJQ4AX8haeLQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cf32b4ce1705aeff440471294c3f1406&oe=5F1DB642)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 26, 2020, 03:00:18 PM
Why do they hate English?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2020, 03:12:19 PM
Did Trump really forego his salary?

Not sure mastery of English is the right choice of battlefields.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on June 26, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2020, 03:12:19 PM
Did Trump really forego his salary?

Not sure mastery of English is the right choice of battlefields.

He makes a big deal that he donates his annual salary every year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on June 26, 2020, 03:24:08 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 26, 2020, 03:00:18 PM
Why do they hate English?

They speak American.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2020, 03:25:57 PM
Quote from: merithyn on June 26, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
He makes a big deal that he donates his annual salary every year.

Do you know if it's to a real or bullshit charity?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 26, 2020, 03:31:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2020, 03:25:57 PM
Quote from: merithyn on June 26, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
He makes a big deal that he donates his annual salary every year.

Do you know if it's to a real or bullshit charity?

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/12/13/president-trump-salary-donation/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 26, 2020, 03:42:42 PM
Trump's message that you should only be in politics if you are independently wealthy is a horrible message.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 26, 2020, 03:47:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2020, 03:12:19 PM
Did Trump really forego his salary?

Not sure mastery of English is the right choice of battlefields.

How can you tell which one is which?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 26, 2020, 04:34:37 PM
]

It's a common issue amongst the ignorant that they can't think beyond salaries in terms of wealth. They have real trouble grasping that the truly rich don't make their money the same way they do, only more.
Trump nicely exploits this by donating the salary which doesn't amount for all that much to him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 06:28:31 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 26, 2020, 04:34:37 PM
]

It's a common issue amongst the ignorant that they can't think beyond salaries in terms of wealth. They have real trouble grasping that the truly rich don't make their money the same way they do, only more.
Trump nicely exploits this by donating the salary which doesn't amount for all that much to him.
yep, his family fortune has increased a lot in the last 4 years.  Net value seems to have decreased a bit, because he over-evaluated some assets.  But he actually made money while being President.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-family-members-have-gotten-much-richer-president-moved-white-house-975993
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2019/08/14/no-trump-is-not-losing-3-to-5-billion-from-presidency/#6d24f5464a2d
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on June 26, 2020, 07:30:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 26, 2020, 02:51:51 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104547016_10223426278715431_695323153490422398_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=q9ApukJ0IUEAX9bvJVT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=aa098981162dc3c94c78ceaab86924a5&oe=5F1B533C)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82966053_3136672829733801_8862940792081504861_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_O5iudWiJQ4AX8haeLQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cf32b4ce1705aeff440471294c3f1406&oe=5F1DB642)

But they surrendered.. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2020, 07:33:14 PM
 :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 26, 2020, 08:57:01 PM
2 of those states, Missouri and Kentucky, were on the other side.

Flag seems shitty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:08:37 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on June 26, 2020, 07:30:38 PM
But they surrendered.. :huh:
Only after the flag was displayed.  It doesn't count.
:P
Now seriously, what do the color represent on this battle flage?  The stars are the States the Confederacy claims to have admitted, and since they lied about that, I don't trust them with the rest :)
EDIT: I know this actual battle flag was derived from the national flag where they cut the white because it was mistaken with a surrender flag, but I'm curious of the rest of the colors, if they have any significance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 26, 2020, 08:57:01 PM
2 of those states, Missouri and Kentucky, were on the other side.

Flag seems shitty.
they had shadow government in the Confederacy and they were claimed by them.  Hence the number of stars.

But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.  Maybe I watched too much of Dukes of Hazzard as a kid*


*Ah, the original english version, as an adult, gave me some understanding trouble... why do they always had to speak like some country song?? :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 27, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.

It's a cool looking flag.

Then again the Third Reich's flag looks cool too.  Speaking as a guy who has a 16' flag pole in his front yard, doesn't mean I'm ever going to fly either flag.

I kind of want to get a US flag to put up on certain occasions (4th of July for example), but these days that might be seen as rather provocative. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 27, 2020, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 27, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
I kind of want to get a US flag to put up on certain occasions (4th of July for example), but these days that might be seen as rather provocative. :(

Good thinking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 27, 2020, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 27, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.

It's a cool looking flag.

Then again the Third Reich's flag looks cool too.  Speaking as a guy who has a 16' flag pole in his front yard, doesn't mean I'm ever going to fly either flag.

I kind of want to get a US flag to put up on certain occasions (4th of July for example), but these days that might be seen as rather provocative. :(

Why would you want to display an American flag?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 27, 2020, 04:36:55 PM
Same reason we Americans sometimes root for Canadians in the Olympics:  We're friends.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 27, 2020, 04:45:05 PM
Lots of American backpackers in Europe have a Canadian flag sewn to their backpacks.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 27, 2020, 04:56:18 PM
I have a Flag Pole, I fly the Jolly Roger.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 27, 2020, 05:15:13 PM
As I am in Santa Cruz, I fly a 420 Flag.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 27, 2020, 05:16:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 27, 2020, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 27, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.

It's a cool looking flag.

Then again the Third Reich's flag looks cool too.  Speaking as a guy who has a 16' flag pole in his front yard, doesn't mean I'm ever going to fly either flag.

I kind of want to get a US flag to put up on certain occasions (4th of July for example), but these days that might be seen as rather provocative. :(

Why would you want to display an American flag?

Maybe he wants to be neighborly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 27, 2020, 05:59:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 27, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.

It's a cool looking flag.

Then again the Third Reich's flag looks cool too.  Speaking as a guy who has a 16' flag pole in his front yard, doesn't mean I'm ever going to fly either flag.

I kind of want to get a US flag to put up on certain occasions (4th of July for example), but these days that might be seen as rather provocative. :(

Fly the US flag but upside down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on June 27, 2020, 09:36:53 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.  Maybe I watched too much of Dukes of Hazzard as a kid*

If you think about the flag, it's very much an Americanized version of the old Scottish and the old Spanish flags.  You start with a St. Andrew's Cross, or saltire:

(https://i.imgur.com/dIfG5vo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/yzJHLof.png) (current flag of Alabama and damn near the current flag of Florida too)

...and then you add the standard American colors (red, white, and blue), along with stars representing the states, and you end up with the Confederate Battle Flag.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 28, 2020, 12:05:08 AM
QuoteCrystal Elaine Prebola
· Shared with Public

Slavery used to be a normal throughout the world. America was the ONLY country that ended it! Black people owned slaves too. White people were slaves too. How many of these morons from black lives matter know that?!



QuoteSharon E Godfrey
· Shared with Public

For our grandparents, parents, and their families..
This week in England, all mention of the Holocaust was removed from school curriculum.
It was claimed that remembering the Holocaust is offensive to the Muslim population which denies its existence...
The Second World War in Europe ended over 70 years ago.
This post aims to create a chain of memory.....
TO THE MEMORY OF..
6 million Jews,,
20 million Russians,
10 million Christians,
1,900 Catholic priests
Who were murdered, Raped, Burned, Starved to death, and humiliated...
NOW more than ever..
While Iran and others claim the Holocaust never happened....
IT IS ESSENTIAL that we do EVERYTHING so the WORLD DOES NOT FORGET..
This Post must reach at least FORTY MILLION People all over the world.
Join us and take part in the CHAIN OF MEMORY.
Help us spread it throughout the world.
~RR.


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104168195_2670433019852281_4319309263561335956_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=i1sGSuM5YIwAX8WN0rW&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8e9de31dbdf107eabcef589d3fee8b4c&oe=5F1EA559)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 28, 2020, 12:54:15 AM
The only country that ended it... *sigh*
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 28, 2020, 01:06:26 AM
Quote from: ulmont on June 27, 2020, 09:36:53 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.  Maybe I watched too much of Dukes of Hazzard as a kid*

If you think about the flag, it's very much an Americanized version of the old Scottish and the old Spanish flags.  You start with a St. Andrew's Cross, or saltire:

(https://i.imgur.com/dIfG5vo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/yzJHLof.png) (current flag of Alabama and damn near the current flag of Florida too)

...and then you add the standard American colors (red, white, and blue), along with stars representing the states, and you end up with the Confederate Battle Flag.




I never realized that.  Duh.  Well, thanks for the info :)  The Scottish flag is also a very beautiful flag.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 28, 2020, 01:12:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 28, 2020, 12:05:08 AM
QuoteCrystal Elaine Prebola
· Shared with Public

Slavery used to be a normal throughout the world. America was the ONLY country that ended it!
Wait... What??? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 28, 2020, 03:53:54 AM
Only in America is one truly free.  :showoff:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 28, 2020, 04:55:44 AM
America is the only country to abolish slavery. And they did it voluntarily, peacefully, and without incident. :)

;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 28, 2020, 06:05:48 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 27, 2020, 11:19:20 AM

I kind of want to get a US flag to put up on certain occasions (4th of July for example), but these days that might be seen as rather provocative. :(

I'm putting it up on the 4th. Even here I expect people will realize what date it is, and that it's not a political statement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 28, 2020, 08:57:52 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 28, 2020, 12:54:15 AM
The only country that ended it... *sigh*

You act shocked...shocked!... that the people who write and spread these are morons.  Phrases like "used to be a normal throughout" don't scream "genius."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2020, 09:01:22 AM
Perhaps it means the US is the only country that fought a war to forcibly end slavery.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 28, 2020, 09:02:24 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2020, 09:01:22 AM
Perhaps it means the US is the only country that fought a war to forcibly end slavery.

Sometimes a moron is just a moron.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 28, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
I can't help but feel like we're playing right into the hands of those creating this firehose of falsehoods by picking apart individual falsehoods in great detail.  We're dealing with a zerg rush of falsehoods here, not carefully targeted attack of sophisticated lies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 28, 2020, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 28, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
I can't help but feel like we're playing right into the hands of those creating this firehose of falsehoods by picking apart individual falsehoods in great detail.  We're dealing with a zerg rush of falsehoods here, not carefully targeted attack of sophisticated lies.


I agree. Somebody posts some utterly false inane shit, and you guys go through analysing like it was high literature.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 28, 2020, 12:34:32 PM
We have been flinging poop here since day 1.  Don't tell us how to do it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2020, 12:46:35 PM
It's a fun exercise to discuss which statements are out and out lies, which are simply spin, and which make reasonable points.  It's fun to discuss what makes them lies, spin, and reasonable points.  You don't have to take part if you don't want to, but I certainly don't feel I'm playing into anyone's hands.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 28, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
I feel like playing in my own hands.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 28, 2020, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2020, 09:01:22 AM
Perhaps it means the US is the only country that fought a war to forcibly end slavery.

I'm fairly certain that isn't true either.  I've seen variation of this idea, mostly "White People ended slavery".  That is at least true in the sense that many white people did fight to end slavery.  I think the last country to abolish slavery was Mauritania, though they have ended slavery several times and it doesn't seem to stick.

Typically slavery ends when the people owning the slaves decide to stop.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 28, 2020, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2020, 09:01:22 AM
Perhaps it means the US is the only country that fought a war to forcibly end slavery.
The Haitian Revolution comes to mind as an earlier example of a war fought to forcibly end slavery.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2020, 01:16:33 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 28, 2020, 01:14:41 PM
The Haitian Revolution comes to mind as an earlier example of a war fought to forcibly end slavery.

Good one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 28, 2020, 01:18:07 PM
I feel like we need to debate what is meant by "a normal".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on June 28, 2020, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: ulmont on June 27, 2020, 09:36:53 PM
(current flag of Alabama and damn near the current flag of Florida too)


But both of those flags were based on the confederate battle flag.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 28, 2020, 02:43:18 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/105704045_10223284741655320_1981437307236254901_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=CM-4s25I72cAX-Ecn4-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1d1e6fe508667f2af48c7304da2a32e1&oe=5F1ED973)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 28, 2020, 03:27:29 PM
Ok, Mono.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 28, 2020, 03:40:23 PM
(https://i.redd.it/6orfc2idoo751.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 28, 2020, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 27, 2020, 05:16:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 27, 2020, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 27, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.

It's a cool looking flag.

Then again the Third Reich's flag looks cool too.  Speaking as a guy who has a 16' flag pole in his front yard, doesn't mean I'm ever going to fly either flag.

I kind of want to get a US flag to put up on certain occasions (4th of July for example), but these days that might be seen as rather provocative. :(

Why would you want to display an American flag?

Maybe he wants to be neighborly?

Ok, no Americans will see it, unless they are lying at the border and say they are going to Alaska.  So what is the point? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 28, 2020, 06:31:13 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 28, 2020, 05:12:17 PM
Ok, no Americans will see it, unless they are lying at the border and say they are going to Alaska.  So what is the point? 

why not? :)
Maybe Valmy will raise a French flag on July 14th, yet not many French will see it ;)

It harms no one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on June 28, 2020, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 28, 2020, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: ulmont on June 27, 2020, 09:36:53 PM
(current flag of Alabama and damn near the current flag of Florida too)


But both of those flags were based on the confederate battle flag.  :P

Alabama's was based on the 60th Alabama Infantry Regiment's flag, with a white saltire on blue (Scotland).  Florida's history is a bit more disputed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 28, 2020, 07:16:12 PM
California has a bear.  Way cooler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 28, 2020, 07:50:37 PM
I have to wonder if my state will strip the slaveholder off of its flag.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on June 28, 2020, 08:21:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 28, 2020, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 27, 2020, 05:16:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 27, 2020, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 27, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.

It's a cool looking flag.

Then again the Third Reich's flag looks cool too.  Speaking as a guy who has a 16' flag pole in his front yard, doesn't mean I'm ever going to fly either flag.

I kind of want to get a US flag to put up on certain occasions (4th of July for example), but these days that might be seen as rather provocative. :(

Why would you want to display an American flag?

Maybe he wants to be neighborly?

Ok, no Americans will see it, unless they are lying at the border and say they are going to Alaska.  So what is the point? 

Displaying it on July 4th, as he suggested, could be a neat homage to the best principles that America should stand for.  Beeb's personal gesture to honour Reagan's shining city on a hill. Myth or not, there is an America that should be.  And anyways why else have a flagpole in your front unless to personally honour important dates and events, Canadian or otherwise.  I'm sure he will fly a Union Jack at half mast if Elizabeth II decides to not become a lich. He probably flies a Blue Bombers flag when they win (very rare) and thats possibly worse than displaying a swastika.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 28, 2020, 09:23:46 PM
60 years later, some Black now envision segregation as a solution.
https://www.facebook.com/thierrylindor/videos/10163703637690324/

(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/105662492_10158550817840929_7382504961376619722_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_oc=AQm9Oz-eCSwB6fr1c_ig8twKFu1JgVhGJoHRl7lGApur9n6VXPeM_991fYTQhKds1a0&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=a15837b8b35542b23732eeae9e115abe&oe=5F1FC0B9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 11:37:40 AM
There has always been a nationalist strain in the black community wanting that. Being nationalists you should support them :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 29, 2020, 12:01:10 PM
Quote from: PRC on June 28, 2020, 08:21:27 PM
Displaying it on July 4th, as he suggested, could be a neat homage to the best principles that America should stand for.  Beeb's personal gesture to honour Reagan's shining city on a hill. Myth or not, there is an America that should be.  And anyways why else have a flagpole in your front unless to personally honour important dates and events, Canadian or otherwise.  I'm sure he will fly a Union Jack at half mast if Elizabeth II decides to not become a lich. He probably flies a Blue Bombers flag when they win (very rare) and thats possibly worse than displaying a swastika.

USA is our closest neighbour and ally - what on earth would be wrong with choosing to honour that by flying their flag?

No Blue Bombers flag :Embarrass: but I do fly a Jets flag when they are in the playoffs.  I do want to point out though that if the CFL doesn't play this year, it just means the Bombers are still the reigning champs into 2021. :contract:

I have to correct you though - if the Queen passes on, it is the Canadian flag that flies at half mast, as she is the Queen of Canada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 02:13:26 PM
Quote from: PRC on June 28, 2020, 08:21:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 28, 2020, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 27, 2020, 05:16:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 27, 2020, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 27, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 26, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
But the flag design, I like.  If it wasn't so associated with slavery and white supremacy, I might have one here.  I really like the colors and design.

It's a cool looking flag.

Then again the Third Reich's flag looks cool too.  Speaking as a guy who has a 16' flag pole in his front yard, doesn't mean I'm ever going to fly either flag.

I kind of want to get a US flag to put up on certain occasions (4th of July for example), but these days that might be seen as rather provocative. :(

Why would you want to display an American flag?

Maybe he wants to be neighborly?

Ok, no Americans will see it, unless they are lying at the border and say they are going to Alaska.  So what is the point? 

Displaying it on July 4th, as he suggested, could be a neat homage to the best principles that America should stand for.  Beeb's personal gesture to honour Reagan's shining city on a hill. Myth or not, there is an America that should be.  And anyways why else have a flagpole in your front unless to personally honour important dates and events, Canadian or otherwise.  I'm sure he will fly a Union Jack at half mast if Elizabeth II decides to not become a lich. He probably flies a Blue Bombers flag when they win (very rare) and thats possibly worse than displaying a swastika.

But it is just as likely for a Trumpist to display the American flag rather than a gesture of lament that the myth is undone.  So a pretty confusing gesture for those who see it.

Bb may have given his own reason, but I have not seen it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 29, 2020, 02:27:08 PM
A flag does not represent the leader of a country.  I proudly fly the Canadian flag despite having a number of disagreements with our leader.  Similarly the stars and stripes is not a Trumpist symbol - it's an American symbol.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 02:48:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 29, 2020, 02:27:08 PM
A flag does not represent the leader of a country.  I proudly fly the Canadian flag despite having a number of disagreements with our leader.  Similarly the stars and stripes is not a Trumpist symbol - it's an American symbol.

Check out what people wear at his rallies.

The only time I see the American flag in Canada are in places where there are large number of American tourists and American ex pats.

You still haven't explained your motivation.  The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 29, 2020, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 02:48:56 PM
The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years.

Perhaps if you said "the American Government" you would be on firmer ground.  This is a bit too dogmatic when you include all Americans...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:04:29 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 29, 2020, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 02:48:56 PM
The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years.

Perhaps if you said "the American Government" you would be on firmer ground.  This is a bit too dogmatic when you include all Americans...

The flag does not represent pockets of the American public.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:11:48 PM
So it represents what exactly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:11:48 PM
So it represents what exactly?

The country of the United States of America?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 29, 2020, 03:32:29 PM
The flag is a symbol, symbols are not fixed in meaning.  They underline basic values shared by a group in total. Within that group there can be a wide variance of meanings ascribed to a symbol.

A symbol expressed outside the group needs to be understood within this shifting context, it represents what your varying pockets of people feel it represents.  So while, yes, the US Flag does represent Americans, the deeper meaning must be more nuanced or else you run the risk of dogmatically defining a more narrow set of beliefs onto a large group of people.

Saying "American" in the above context includes people who share a symbol but the not meaning with others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:36:05 PM
Sure, but it is the flag of your country.  Which raises the question why someone who is not a citizen of your country and is not living in your country feels the urge to put it on their flag pole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:36:05 PM
Sure, but it is the flag of your country.  Which raises the question why someone who is not a citizen of your country and is not living in your country feels the urge to put it on their flag pole.

If you own a flag pole you get the urge to fly all sorts of flags on it...speaking as somebody who once owned a flagpole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:43:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:11:48 PM
So it represents what exactly?

The country of the United States of America?

Well that is a pretty big and complicated topic is it not? Surely there is at least one thing we have done or are about that Canadians can find admirable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 29, 2020, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 02:48:56 PM
The only time I see the American flag in Canada are in places where there are large number of American tourists and American ex pats.

You still haven't explained your motivation.  The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years.

You frankly don't see a whole ton of Canadian flags in Canada either - not at private residences at least.

I disagree that Americans haven't been, and aren't, our friends.  They have been.  Don't conflate the people with the President.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 29, 2020, 05:18:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:36:05 PM
Sure, but it is the flag of your country.  Which raises the question why someone who is not a citizen of your country and is not living in your country feels the urge to put it on their flag pole.

If you own a flag pole you get the urge to fly all sorts of flags on it...speaking as somebody who once owned a flagpole.

I flew a Venetian flag on St. Mark's Day  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:43:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:11:48 PM
So it represents what exactly?

The country of the United States of America?

Well that is a pretty big and complicated topic is it not? Surely there is at least one thing we have done or are about that Canadians can find admirable.

Depends on what you mean by we.  The nation known the United States of America has done a lot of damage over the last 3.5 years.  Not sure there is anything in that period of time that a citizen of another country should feel compelled to honour.  Mourn perhaps.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 05:45:25 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 29, 2020, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 02:48:56 PM
The only time I see the American flag in Canada are in places where there are large number of American tourists and American ex pats.

You still haven't explained your motivation.  The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years.

You frankly don't see a whole ton of Canadian flags in Canada either - not at private residences at least.

I disagree that Americans haven't been, and aren't, our friends.  They have been.  Don't conflate the people with the President.

Ok, well that explains it.  You are marching to a different drummer.  But you are going to get a lot of odd looks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 29, 2020, 06:09:24 PM
CC, you really do need to chill out.  BB isn't your enemy.  Dguller isn't your enemy.  I'm not your enemy.  Nobody here is your enemy.  Times are tense, everyone is a bit on edge, and nobody is happy about situation in the US.  Getting angry at us isn't going to help things.  All we can do at this point is sit tight and try not to get sick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 29, 2020, 06:13:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 11:37:40 AM
There has always been a nationalist strain in the black community wanting that. Being nationalists you should support them :P
I don't mind if they want their own schools, lots of people have their own private schools, so long as they conform to the minimum required by the Department of Education.

However, I still find silly that they are in favour of segregation to fight racism.  It will only exacerbate tentions between both communities, but it is their choices, nothing prevents it, I doubt the actual Federal government would stand in their way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 29, 2020, 06:15:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 29, 2020, 12:01:10 PM
I have to correct you though - if the Queen passes on, it is the Canadian flag that flies at half mast, as she is the Queen of Canada.
It wasn't the flag when she was born, nor when she became Queen, hence you should respect traditions :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on June 29, 2020, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:36:05 PM
Sure, but it is the flag of your country.  Which raises the question why someone who is not a citizen of your country and is not living in your country feels the urge to put it on their flag pole.

If you own a flag pole you get the urge to fly all sorts of flags on it...speaking as somebody who once owned a flagpole.

I want a flagpole :(

I'd be flying the Montagnard all day every day :frog:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 29, 2020, 07:11:52 PM
You got a thing for elephants?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 07:18:44 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 29, 2020, 06:13:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 11:37:40 AM
There has always been a nationalist strain in the black community wanting that. Being nationalists you should support them :P
I don't mind if they want their own schools, lots of people have their own private schools, so long as they conform to the minimum required by the Department of Education.

However, I still find silly that they are in favour of segregation to fight racism.  It will only exacerbate tentions between both communities, but it is their choices, nothing prevents it, I doubt the actual Federal government would stand in their way.

Of course it will exacerbate tensions. They want that. They want separation. Not sure why you would find that confusing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 07:24:19 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:43:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:11:48 PM
So it represents what exactly?

The country of the United States of America?

Well that is a pretty big and complicated topic is it not? Surely there is at least one thing we have done or are about that Canadians can find admirable.

Depends on what you mean by we.  The nation known the United States of America has done a lot of damage over the last 3.5 years.  Not sure there is anything in that period of time that a citizen of another country should feel compelled to honour.  Mourn perhaps.

So the entire country and all its people are entirely the actions of a government that did not even get a plurality vote in an election in 2016 and nothing more?

That seems ridiculously and absurdly reductionist. But hopefully BB can fly the US flag next year without your reproach.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 07:44:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 07:24:19 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:43:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2020, 03:11:48 PM
So it represents what exactly?

The country of the United States of America?

Well that is a pretty big and complicated topic is it not? Surely there is at least one thing we have done or are about that Canadians can find admirable.

Depends on what you mean by we.  The nation known the United States of America has done a lot of damage over the last 3.5 years.  Not sure there is anything in that period of time that a citizen of another country should feel compelled to honour.  Mourn perhaps.

So the entire country and all its people are entirely the actions of a government that did not even get a plurality vote in an election in 2016 and nothing more?

That seems ridiculously and absurdly reductionist. But hopefully BB can fly the US flag next year without your reproach.

So you jump from an observation that your country has done terrible things to a conclusion that must mean everyone in your country has done terrible things?  Your flag is the emblem of your country, not of you personally.    Is that not at all obvious?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 29, 2020, 07:46:28 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbtRpdxXsAISiQS?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2020, 06:09:24 PM
CC, you really do need to chill out.  BB isn't your enemy.  Dguller isn't your enemy.  I'm not your enemy.  Nobody here is your enemy.  Times are tense, everyone is a bit on edge, and nobody is happy about situation in the US.  Getting angry at us isn't going to help things.  All we can do at this point is sit tight and try not to get sick.

How does me wondering why BB wants to fly the flag of another country and observing how other Canadians might react, make him my enemy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 29, 2020, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 02:48:56 PM
The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years.
QuoteSo you jump from an observation that your country has done terrible things to a conclusion that must mean everyone in your country has done terrible things?  Your flag is the emblem of your country, not of you personally.    Is that not at all obvious?

Then you should not have said "Americans" in the initial quote and instead have said "America" - you did not blame the country, but the people, so it seems obvious that there would be a reaction.  "Some Americans" would also do - you indicated all Americans in your first statement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 30, 2020, 12:37:47 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/25pKKsW-N/sw-asti.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 30, 2020, 02:47:27 AM
I WOULD stop buying from them again because who knows what else they have been doing to my food for the lulz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 30, 2020, 09:42:39 AM
Nazis made awful pizza, they just had to of.  A Nazi Little Caesar's Pizza is a black hole of awful.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 30, 2020, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 29, 2020, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 02:48:56 PM
The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years.
QuoteSo you jump from an observation that your country has done terrible things to a conclusion that must mean everyone in your country has done terrible things?  Your flag is the emblem of your country, not of you personally.    Is that not at all obvious?

Then you should not have said "Americans" in the initial quote and instead have said "America" - you did not blame the country, but the people, so it seems obvious that there would be a reaction.  "Some Americans" would also do - you indicated all Americans in your first statement.

PDH, you are committing the sin of reification.  The country does nothing.  It is the people within the country that do things. 

If your analysis is correct, then Trump is blameless, it is all the fault of the country - whatever that means.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 30, 2020, 12:28:27 PM
Where did I say Trump was blameless?  You said "Americans" in a statement that was a blanket statement "The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years."  I argued that saying "America" would have been an accurate or "some Americans" because as it is worded you implement the group "Americans" as a whole.  Hell, using "American Government" would have been accurate - you continue to paint with too broad of strokes.

Look I'm done with semantics. 

Over and out
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 30, 2020, 12:37:10 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 30, 2020, 12:28:27 PM
Where did I say Trump was blameless?  You said "Americans" in a statement that was a blanket statement "The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years."  I argued that saying "America" would have been an accurate or "some Americans" because as it is worded you implement the group "Americans" as a whole.  Hell, using "American Government" would have been accurate - you continue to paint with too broad of strokes.

If one can only blame a country for what people in the country do, you then need to carve out an exception for blaming people in the country.  I suppose we could call that the Trump rule.  But why not stick with a consistently logical position that it is always the people within a country who do things.

As for your point that the rest of the world should not refer to "Americans" when referring to acts being done by people within your country, that is linguistically challenging.   Using a term as narrow as "American Government" is also too narrow.  It is not just your government, there are a large number of non governmental actors who also share the blame.

So Americans seems a pretty good way of describing a large group of people who are Americans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 01, 2020, 09:50:44 AM
QuoteI'm so confused right now. I see signs all over saying black lives matter. I'm just trying to figure out which black lives matter. It can't be the unborn black babies. They are destroyed without a second thought. It's not black cops. They don't seem to matter. It's not my black conservative friends. They are told to shut the **** up if they know what's best for them by their black counterparts. It's not black business owners. Their property does not mean anything. It's not blacks who fought in the military. Their statues are destroyed by the black lives matter protesters with disdain. So which black lives matter again?

I can't keep up. I just can't. I'm exhausted trying to figure out what we're all supposed to do, believe, and be offended and outraged by next.

Two months ago, First Responders were all the rage. In fact, they were heroes. We gave them free coffee, meals, and cheers as they drove by.Today we hate them and want them defunded because they can't be trusted.

Two months ago, truck drivers were the heroes, as well, for keeping America moving and the grocery stores stocked. Today we block the roads with protesters, drag them out of the cabs and beat them half to death.

Nurses and Doctors are still cool for now. But they may be unemployed. They too are heroes, unless of course they truly believe all lives matter. Then they're filled with hate and are part of problem like so many others.

Just 45 days ago protests weren't "essential" and were considered criminal, selfish and a murderous activity. Today they are gloriously critical and celebrated. All of the obvious criminal and murderous activities are simply ignored. If you protest about lockdowns for freedom, you are selfish and you will spread a virus. If you protest, loot, and riot for social justice, you are a warrior and the virus cedes.

Trust the experts. No, not those experts. Don't wear masks ... wear masks, but only good ones. Wait, don't wear masks, wear anything as a mask. Nevermind on the masks. Not sure, but if you don't, you hate people because you could be an asymptomatic spreader. Wait. That's not a thing anymore?

For 3 months, NOTHING was more important than social distance. In fact, we gave up all of our liberties for it. We canceled schools, medical and dental procedures, yet allowed the murder of babies, canceled activities, closed businesses, eliminated every spring rite of passage from prom to graduation, denied people funerals, even at Arlington, and we wrecked the economy for it. Then came social justice, and social distance was no more. Now things are more cut and dry though. A thousand people at three memorials for someone they never even met. It's a matter of "respect". But you can only assemble 100 or less people.

Black Lives Matter. Of course they do. Then multiple black police officers and individuals were killed during the "peaceful protests". I don't see any outrage. Black individually owned businesses burned to the ground. Silence. Deadliest weekend in Chicago. NOTHING!!

I'm really confused now. Look at the data, NO, not that data. Do the math. No, you can't do the math like that. Only the experts can understand the data and math. What do you mean other cities/states/governors are interpreting the data differently? Pools are safe in Indiana, but not Michigan? Playgrounds are safe in your town but not mine? Amusement parks are safe in Florida but not Ohio, nor Michigan.

Just listen to the black community leaders. No, not them.

If you are silent you are part of the problem. If you speak, you are part of the problem. If you have to ask, you don't understand. If you don't ask, you don't care.

It's all so predictable, tedious, and exhausting. Nothing adds up. It's one gigantic common core Math life problem, with ever changing denominators that I'm sure the media and politicians are eagerly ready to solve for us....until the next "crisis".

So for now I pray. I pray God will heal our land and bless the United States of America.

***Copied From A Friend***
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 01, 2020, 11:54:59 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 30, 2020, 12:37:10 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 30, 2020, 12:28:27 PM
Where did I say Trump was blameless?  You said "Americans" in a statement that was a blanket statement "The Americans have not exactly been our friends these past 3.5 years."  I argued that saying "America" would have been an accurate or "some Americans" because as it is worded you implement the group "Americans" as a whole.  Hell, using "American Government" would have been accurate - you continue to paint with too broad of strokes.

If one can only blame a country for what people in the country do, you then need to carve out an exception for blaming people in the country.  I suppose we could call that the Trump rule.  But why not stick with a consistently logical position that it is always the people within a country who do things.

As for your point that the rest of the world should not refer to "Americans" when referring to acts being done by people within your country, that is linguistically challenging.   Using a term as narrow as "American Government" is also too narrow.  It is not just your government, there are a large number of non governmental actors who also share the blame.

So Americans seems a pretty good way of describing a large group of people who are Americans.


So, how would you describe the majority of Americans who are not too blame?  Do we call them Americans as well? 

"The Americans are to blame, but not the Americans" is pretty confusing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 01, 2020, 01:11:35 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106394935_1392007947660681_8835371447972829157_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zVHoGjkjH4YAX-X065f&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e6a4145f6f48802bb97c213dadc73c7f&oe=5F2378BF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on July 01, 2020, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 29, 2020, 03:36:05 PM
Sure, but it is the flag of your country.  Which raises the question why someone who is not a citizen of your country and is not living in your country feels the urge to put it on their flag pole.

It's clear that you don't understand. That's okay. But you not understanding doesn't mean that BB should change his mind, or feel like he should have to defend doing so to you or anyone else.

It's okay to let other people do something you don't agree with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 01, 2020, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 01, 2020, 01:11:35 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106394935_1392007947660681_8835371447972829157_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zVHoGjkjH4YAX-X065f&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e6a4145f6f48802bb97c213dadc73c7f&oe=5F2378BF)

Looooking good Speesh.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 01, 2020, 01:53:17 PM
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 01, 2020, 01:11:35 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106394935_1392007947660681_8835371447972829157_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zVHoGjkjH4YAX-X065f&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e6a4145f6f48802bb97c213dadc73c7f&oe=5F2378BF)

Funny how they go from bemoaning people being pissed off and praying for healing and then talk about how great it is people are pissed off.

Of course those two posts might be from different people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 01, 2020, 02:33:59 PM
It's the foundation of Trump support.  He inflicts harm on those that conservatives were told to hate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2020, 02:33:59 PM
It's the foundation of Trump support.  He inflicts harm on those that conservatives were told to hate.

Only he doesn't really do much to harm me directly (or anybody...well I guess except non-citizens), except to the extent he turned the entire country into a shameful disfunctional wreck which harms everybody not just people conservatives don't like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on July 01, 2020, 03:01:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2020, 02:33:59 PM
It's the foundation of Trump support.  He inflicts harm on those that conservatives were told to hate.

Only he doesn't really do much to harm me directly (or anybody...well I guess except non-citizens), except to the extent he turned the entire country into a shameful disfunctional wreck which harms everybody not just people conservatives don't like.

You're his target audience as a cis, het white guy. He's not trying to harm you. Women wanting medical help, immigrants wanting human rights, and black people wanting dignity,  however.... they are being directly harmed by Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 01, 2020, 03:02:56 PM
He talks a good game though and gets the twitterati riled up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 03:12:33 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 01, 2020, 03:01:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2020, 02:33:59 PM
It's the foundation of Trump support.  He inflicts harm on those that conservatives were told to hate.

Only he doesn't really do much to harm me directly (or anybody...well I guess except non-citizens), except to the extent he turned the entire country into a shameful disfunctional wreck which harms everybody not just people conservatives don't like.

You're his target audience as a cis, het white guy. He's not trying to harm you. Women wanting medical help, immigrants wanting human rights, and black people wanting dignity,  however.... they are being directly harmed by Trump.

Are they? I am sure he would love to harm those people but he fails to even do that. Instead those people are making real strides while he rages on twitter like an idiot, his legislative agenda dead in the water.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 01, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
There are plenty of cis het white guys that have to purchase their own health care or like to drink clean water or not be infected by a pandemic the federal government is neglecting.  I could go on further but the main point is that staggeringly incompetent management of the federal government hurts all races, classes and genders, although admittedly not always with same effect and intensity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 01, 2020, 03:35:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 01, 2020, 01:11:35 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106394935_1392007947660681_8835371447972829157_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zVHoGjkjH4YAX-X065f&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e6a4145f6f48802bb97c213dadc73c7f&oe=5F2378BF)

An admission. Interesting
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 01, 2020, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2020, 02:33:59 PM
It's the foundation of Trump support.  He inflicts harm on those that conservatives were told to hate.

Only he doesn't really do much to harm me directly (or anybody...well I guess except non-citizens), except to the extent he turned the entire country into a shameful disfunctional wreck which harms everybody not just people conservatives don't like.

Often the harm that is caused it simply insults.  Trump's supporters call it "Fighting for us".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 01, 2020, 03:38:34 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 01, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
There are plenty of cis het white guys that have to purchase their own health care or like to drink clean water or not be infected by a pandemic the federal government is neglecting.  I could go on further but the main point is that staggeringly incompetent management of the federal government hurts all races, classes and genders, although admittedly not always with same effect and intensity.

It's like Poll taxes.  "Yeah they hurt us, but they hurt them more."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 03:45:08 PM
Well I guess that is true. Just break shit hoping it will hurt the unfavored people more.

A very dark and nihilistic way to look at things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 01, 2020, 04:30:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 03:45:08 PM
Well I guess that is true. Just break shit hoping it will hurt the unfavored people more.

A very dark and nihilistic way to look at things.

The so called conservatives have been quite nihilistic for a while now, and dialled it to 11 with Covid-19 (in the US at least).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 01, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 01, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
There are plenty of cis het white guys that have to purchase their own health care or like to drink clean water or not be infected by a pandemic the federal government is neglecting.  I could go on further but the main point is that staggeringly incompetent management of the federal government hurts all races, classes and genders, although admittedly not always with same effect and intensity.

Exactly.

From a non-American perspective, Trump has truly created a unique situation.

In the past, plenty of people outside of America have loved America, and plenty of people outside of America have hated America.

What is truly new, is that maybe for the first time ever, lots of people outside America are pitying America.

For all its undoubted wealth, power, and creativity and industriousness of its people, under current leadership it's people appear to be worse off than people in comparable nations elsewhere.

To turn envy into pity is quite the achievement for the current government.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 02, 2020, 10:47:39 AM
A boomerrific trifecta.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104654131_3071998679574375_2681785237095968125_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pDG-ByhD5RQAX-sO9ws&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f2e4fc3cbca5f1cd30ce48267d5587a6&oe=5F248F95)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75327054_1208051359540910_4427989591220321927_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=yJG8FRvZFkgAX8_vHwL&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9ea5c46313441a28b3949123233cd87b&oe=5F22F87A)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106452831_2040785112712613_6798667855920044700_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=efE7WN_TvvsAX9rSbYU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8249039d96715bd5618c5d1d52524776&oe=5F2298A6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2020, 10:57:06 AM
Stop being so generationalist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on July 02, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
"it's people"  :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on July 02, 2020, 11:01:20 AM
Quote from: celedhring on July 02, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
"it's people"  :bleeding:

Their they're...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2020, 11:04:50 AM
If her generation is so hardcore why does she spend all her time whining pitifully on Facebook?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 02, 2020, 11:12:12 AM
The sharing of Three Percenters stuff is a bit troubling, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Percenters

Then again, if it's good enough for police officers, then it's probably fine. :)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m5StptgwMVM/maxresdefault.jpg)

(https://voiceofoc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/OC-sheriff-with-patch-1170x658.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2020, 11:15:42 AM
What kind of dimbulb thinks little kids flipping the bird is praiseworthy?  It's almost like they're saying, don't whine about your problems, go beat somebody up or shoot them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 02, 2020, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: celedhring on July 02, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
"it's people"  :bleeding:

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!11
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2020, 11:31:57 AM
Damnit how many weird libertarian militias are out there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 02, 2020, 01:09:18 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2020, 11:15:42 AM
What kind of dimbulb thinks little kids flipping the bird is praiseworthy?  It's almost like they're saying, don't whine about your problems, go beat somebody up or shoot them.

Apparently, many dimbulb, because it's hard to see a huge disconnect between this attitude and anti-environmentalism, anti-BLM, anti-mask, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 02, 2020, 02:28:31 PM
That deputy sheriff badge looks like a kid's toy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 02, 2020, 02:41:49 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 02, 2020, 11:12:12 AM
The sharing of Three Percenters stuff is a bit troubling, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Percenters

Then again, if it's good enough for police officers, then it's probably fine. :)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m5StptgwMVM/maxresdefault.jpg)

(https://voiceofoc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/OC-sheriff-with-patch-1170x658.jpg)

Is he a cosplayer or is he actually in some form of law enforcement?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 02, 2020, 03:42:57 PM
Well, his badge says deputy sheriff of Orange county, so I'm guessing that he's legit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 02, 2020, 03:47:02 PM
He is. And is now being investigated, apparently.

https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/oc-deputy-under-investigation-for-wearing-extremist-symbols-at-protest/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
OC is a rich county.  Why are they handing out plastic badges?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 02, 2020, 05:27:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2020, 11:31:57 AM
Damnit how many weird libertarian militias are out there?

Turns out libertarians aren't so good creating a single tightly centralized organization.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 02, 2020, 05:27:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
OC is a rich county.  Why are they handing out plastic badges?

They don't need no stinkin metal badges.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 02, 2020, 05:54:21 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 02, 2020, 03:47:02 PM
He is. And is now being investigated, apparently.

https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/oc-deputy-under-investigation-for-wearing-extremist-symbols-at-protest/

Good, he shouldn't be wearing those.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 02, 2020, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 01, 2020, 03:01:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2020, 02:33:59 PM
It's the foundation of Trump support.  He inflicts harm on those that conservatives were told to hate.

Only he doesn't really do much to harm me directly (or anybody...well I guess except non-citizens), except to the extent he turned the entire country into a shameful disfunctional wreck which harms everybody not just people conservatives don't like.

You're his target audience as a cis, het white guy. He's not trying to harm you. Women wanting medical help, immigrants wanting human rights, and black people wanting dignity,  however.... they are being directly harmed by Trump.
I like you a lot Meri, but I totally disagree with comments like this.
This is unfortunately a problem with modern day leftist activists.  You can not recognize that white men have their own problems too, just because they're not the same as those women or minorities may experience.

And as long as you all think like that, the likes of Trump will be elected to various positions of power. 

Or you'll get someone like Justin Trudeau who pretends to care while parading in front of the camera but is simply making sure your children and your children's children will be poorer than you are just so he can get elected and admired by those same people who will suffer the most.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 02, 2020, 06:07:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 01, 2020, 03:45:08 PM
Well I guess that is true. Just break shit hoping it will hurt the unfavored people more.

A very dark and nihilistic way to look at things.
It is hard to deny this is what they thought of the current pandemic.  It would disproportionally hurt black&hispanics with less than stellar access to healthcare.  Or poor whites from the cities who vote Democrat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on July 03, 2020, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
OC is a rich county.  Why are they handing out plastic badges?
Looks like a fabric badge with velcro backing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 04, 2020, 03:12:06 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83611990_10220408934311272_897758298707082781_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=O4ivfNtrEp8AX_71aMf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=409e9a9c128e9f4fb6c0f85c728a3569&oe=5F252572)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73458870_2502555313163869_1969453065987686400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ThcyPOqyNRoAX9zrLIp&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7dd208cd1aa94b386a65b55dc9e02696&oe=5F24673A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 04, 2020, 04:44:31 AM
Time to teach kids about freedom by taking away their freedom :lol:

Scumbags in the UK always moan about bringing back national service too, despite them mostly having avoided it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 04, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: Maximus on July 03, 2020, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
OC is a rich county.  Why are they handing out plastic badges?
Looks like a fabric badge with velcro backing.

Now that you mention it, it does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 04, 2020, 11:27:07 AM
I guess involuntary service is a good way to better appreciate freedom. Not sure it would help them love this country though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2020, 11:36:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 04, 2020, 11:27:07 AM
I guess involuntary service is a good way to better appreciate freedom. Not sure it would help them love this country though.

If the way people reacted to the draft back in the late 1960's and early 1970's are an indication, the draft won't inspire more love of country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 04, 2020, 11:40:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101920013_311360219875849_698129556527120384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=IUUFiGTDuMkAX-hhXRU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=36beecaa22bb8012a1f6b8bcc7309bc6&oe=5F27ED05)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 04, 2020, 12:23:20 PM
It just helps me love my country and appreciate freedom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 04, 2020, 12:24:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2020, 11:36:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 04, 2020, 11:27:07 AM
I guess involuntary service is a good way to better appreciate freedom. Not sure it would help them love this country though.

If the way people reacted to the draft back in the late 1960's and early 1970's are an indication, the draft won't inspire more love of country.

It did help them appreciate freedom by fleeing to Canada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 04, 2020, 12:28:29 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 04, 2020, 11:40:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/101920013_311360219875849_698129556527120384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=IUUFiGTDuMkAX-hhXRU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=36beecaa22bb8012a1f6b8bcc7309bc6&oe=5F27ED05)

Mono would agree.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 04, 2020, 01:21:20 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 04, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: Maximus on July 03, 2020, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
OC is a rich county.  Why are they handing out plastic badges?
Looks like a fabric badge with velcro backing.

Now that you mention it, it does.

Yes, usually worn with non dress style uniform. Leave to Languish to fuss over that. :lol:

His first line sup needs to be rolled up in this investigation too at least.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on July 04, 2020, 03:36:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2020, 11:31:57 AM
Damnit how many weird libertarian militias are out there?

A bit under 200.

QuoteThe Intelligence Project identified 576 extreme antigovernment groups that were active in 2019, down from 612 in 2018. Of these groups, 181 were militias (marked with an asterisk), down from 216 in 2018. The remainder included "common-law" courts, publishers, ministries and citizens' groups. Generally, such groups define themselves as opposed to the "New World Order," engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing, or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/antigovernment
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 04, 2020, 03:42:41 PM
It's weird how one short aspirational statement about a post Cold War world of peace, cooperation, and prosperity by George HW Bush 30 years ago has had such legs in that community.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on July 04, 2020, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 04, 2020, 03:42:41 PM
It's weird how one short aspirational statement about a post Cold War world of peace, cooperation, and prosperity by George HW Bush 30 years ago has had such legs in that community.

The terms and concepts were used before GHWB.  Just one example:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_World_Order_(Wells)

...it's clearly the idea of some nebulous world government that frightens them, because they are doing so well under their current regime.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 05, 2020, 01:33:57 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2020, 04:44:31 AM
Time to teach kids about freedom by taking away their freedom :lol:
The US is already a tyranny.  People are forced to wear mask in most public spaces.  Conscription is the next logical step. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 05, 2020, 01:35:20 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2020, 11:36:57 AM

If the way people reacted to the draft back in the late 1960's and early 1970's are an indication, the draft won't inspire more love of country.
learn from your mistakes: this time, draft them all under the flag, no one will be left to protest back home.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 07, 2020, 02:39:31 PM
https://djhjmedia.com/eric/3229/

QuoteWake Up USA! BLM Is Anti-God, Anti-White, Anti-Traditional Family – Marxists!

Racism is a universal problem that manifests its ugly head in different ways. Sometimes as an unspoken rule of not-associating with people of different ethnicities or even murdering unexpecting people who simply were born to parents with the "wrong" skin color.

BLM was started by three angry Marxist black girls, all practicing lesbianism, motivated to force cultural changes. The BLM website is unabashedly racist, anti-God, anti-man, anti-man/woman family units, etc. Using the deaths of back men as a front, they are systematically attacking all areas of our culture, they have targeted for change.

Similar to Mussolini's Black Shirts and Hitler's Brown Shirts,  BLM's devotees seem willing to act corporately or independently with the express purpose of installing fear in those they want to rule over.

Here is a quick video of BLM in action

https://twitter.com/dbongino/status/1275887975029706752

Unlike a lot of other hate groups, BLM has clearly laid out their anarchist Godless positions, and how they propose to force the changes to take place.

From BackLivesMatter.com:

About

#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin's murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

What We Believe

We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and "villages" that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

Here are some recent videos from Twitter

https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1279476826146996226?s=20
https://twitter.com/SusanStJames3/status/1280125866262114307?s=20
https://twitter.com/ctannous98/status/1279194076529770497?s=20

From Gateway Pundit:

MORE RIOT CONNECTIONS: BLM Co-Founder Opal Tometi Connected to Communist Venezuelan President Maduro

We reported on May 30th the riots in Democrat-led cities around the country were coordinated and related to three main groups: 1)  US-based Islamist Organizations, 2) Domestic terrorists, and 3) Other radical groups linked to the Democrat Party.

We've uncovered other individuals connected to the group BLM like the Clinton connected member of the Weather Underground, Susan Rosenberg.

Now we know that one of the co-founders of BLM is linked to Venezuelan communist dictator Maduro.

(https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.109/wjq.56f.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Opal-Tometi-BLM-600x216-1.jpg)

Yes, Black Lives Matter, as do all, but BLM is an openly Marxist corporation whose purpose is to force change, through intimidation and violence. We must educate, legislate, and vote for people who will pass laws increasing prison sentencing for crimes committed by domestic terrorists. If America allows the transfer of policing from local peace officers to democratic mob rule enforcers, it will not be long before the streets in all major cities will be too dangerous for white Americans to walk or even drive.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 07, 2020, 03:02:02 PM
He misses the fact that Black Lives Matter is a movement, not an organization, for most people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 07, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
Gotta give the author some props for actually sourcing their claims.  That's a step usually missing in these Facebook posts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 07, 2020, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 07, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
Gotta give the author some props for actually sourcing their claims.  That's a step usually missing in these Facebook posts.

Feel free to peruse the "news" site: https://djhjmedia.com/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 07, 2020, 03:14:28 PM
Africans sure do hate themselves some gays.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 07, 2020, 03:15:20 PM
QuoteUsing the deaths of back men as a front

If they dropped the puns they would gain gravitas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 07, 2020, 03:52:09 PM
"openly Marxist corporation".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 07, 2020, 10:53:03 PM
QuoteI don't know the author, but it great and to the point!
"In 4 months, the U.S. transformed into an obedient country. Government dictated what events are acceptable to attend. Violent protests that instill fear are OK but church services, family funerals and patriotic celebrations are dangerous. And you bought it without a fight.
Standing in a graduation line is a "safety hazard". Small businesses were forced to close but crowds to support the corporate money machine at WalMart, Lowes and Home Depot are OK.
Come on. It's "just a mask" & "safety precautions".
How about a little hush money. Here's $2,400 that we stole out of your pay check in the first place. Enjoy. Buy something with it. From a big corporation.
Cash is dirty. We can't give change. There's a coin shortage. Use your card. In 4 months, they convinced you to use a traceable card for everything.
In less than 4 months, government closed public schools then "restructured" education under the guise of "public safety". In less than 4 months, our government demonstrated how easily people assimilate to "guidelines" that have NO scientific premise whatsoever when you are fearful.
In less than 4 months, our government successfully instilled fear in a majority of the population in America that allows them to control every aspect of your life. Including what you eat, where you go, who you see and your toilet paper.
And the most dangerous and terrifying part? People are not afraid of the government who removed their freedom. They're afraid of their neighbors, family and friends.
And they hate those who won't comply.
It's absolutely terrifying to me that so many people don't question "authority". They are willing to surrender their critical thinking skills and independence. They just... gave up without thinking. Without a fight.
Do you know what's coming next?
"It's just a vaccine. Come on. It's for the greater good".
Wait until you're told that you can't enter any store or business without proof of the Covid-19 vaccine. Wait until you can't go to public events or get on a plane without proof of receiving the vaccine.
To everyone that doesn't believe this is possible - government successfully dictated to people WHEN they were allowed to be outside, WHERE they were allowed to go, and HOW their children would be educated in less than 4 months? And that a majority of the population followed blindly because they were told to do so.
'I don't follow politics."
"Who cares about that stuff?"
"I don't like to think about it."
Nobody wanted to think.
But that couldn't happen here, right?"


QuoteCory Ossum
  · Shared with Public
⛪️ 𝐁𝐋𝐌 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐭𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐬 𝐂𝐇𝐔𝐑𝐂𝐇𝐄𝐒 𝐧𝐨𝐰 ⛪️ ⁣
⁣
If I was that 𝐘𝐎𝐔𝐍𝐆 & there were a bunch 𝐎𝐋𝐃𝐄𝐑 kids 𝐒𝐂𝐑𝐄𝐀𝐌𝐈𝐍𝐆 in megaphones at me...⁣
⁣
I'd be 𝐒𝐂𝐀𝐑𝐄𝐃 shitless. ⁣
⁣
So 𝐓𝐄𝐋𝐋 𝐌𝐄 why they are yelling "𝐒𝐀𝐕𝐄 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐊𝐈𝐃𝐒!" ⁣
⁣
These are 𝗪𝐇𝐈𝐓𝐄 Christian children going to 𝐂𝐇𝐔𝐑𝐂𝐇...⁣
⁣
Not 𝐁𝐋𝐀𝐂𝐊 Criminals getting 𝐊𝐈𝐋𝐋𝐄𝐃 by a cop. ⁣
⁣
When did you 𝐂𝐇𝐀𝐍𝐆𝐄 the Lives in your 𝐌𝐎𝐕𝐄𝐌𝐄𝐍𝐓? 🤔⁣
⁣
𝐁𝐄𝐀𝐓 𝐈𝐓. ⁣
⁣
~𝙋𝙗𝘼𝙣𝙤𝙣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣
⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣
#QAnon #SaveTheChildren #TheGreatAwakening
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 08, 2020, 11:13:12 PM
QuoteDev Roberts
oJutslntiSryo 6 pfnaotn 6gste:u2o8o ParMigemd  · Shared with Public
A post from many other Truckers:
DEAR AMERICA, WE ARE SERIOUS... THE AMERICAN TRUCKER will not be held hostage, threatened, robbed, or killed. We will not be a victim. We will not be this generation's version of Reginald Denny. Every driver knows that name. Do you?
We will defend ourselves everytime, up to and including, using our 80,000lb trucks and it's 1,800 foot-pounds of torque to run you over.
Cities where looting, rioting, & stopping trucks is happening.... You are hearby put on notice.
Threaten, delay, attempt to stop a truck, we... The American trucker will consider that act as an attack on our lives. We will defend ourselves, our equipment, and our load.
Food, medicine, hospital supplies, gasoline, and a million other daily items we deliver to your cities ARE A-POLITICAL. Everyone needs them, including your dumbass. We don't "need" to come to your lawless city. YOU NEED us to deliver your food and supplies to your city.
We drivers have social media too. If your city becomes too chaotic & violent. Becomes too unsafe for us... Word will spread very quickly amongst the 3.5 million truckers. We will stop delivering to your city. Period. No driver will travel into a city that reminds us of scenes from a "Mad Max" movie.
Threaten an American truck driver while he's working and it will take you, and your city, down a path where YOU WILL LOSE.
Take a moment & seriously think: Do you really want to risk your doctor NOT having the supplies he needs to save you while in surgery? Do you really want to stop the medicines keeping your kids and parents alive?
Keep your silly shit off the US Interstate and US highway system. Congregating in the roadway will only get you run over. Having people standing and blocking the highway is a threat to our physical safety and we will respond appropriately to your attack. Standing in the roadway is NOT a protest. It is an attack on our safety. Air horns will sound, steering wheels will be held tightly, but those brakes will not be touched. You will move, or you will die. 80,000 pounds at 70mph will win every time. STAY OUT OF THE ROADWAY.
In closing: DONT FUCK WITH THE AMERICAN TRUCKER

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104654131_3071998679574375_2681785237095968125_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3GrLe1Kp9g8AX84FDk7&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=425064d4bc3c3a8e5298552ed7cb897a&oe=5F2C7895)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106700936_3142967782445453_6695360531843291998_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HODQOIjC6fwAX-YIv_a&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6c60ac1a4d542d8e4e0054418376f1f9&oe=5F2BBB00)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 08, 2020, 11:33:41 PM
The last one is stumping me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2020, 11:58:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 08, 2020, 11:33:41 PM
The last one is stumping me.

That's because you're being played.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 09, 2020, 12:07:53 AM
My cousin put that one up.  It took me about three minutes to find three state representatives that have died.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 09, 2020, 01:27:41 AM
Business looted? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2020, 06:52:18 AM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/107340191_10219987258966141_3887339532886526622_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=mb1tNDER0dMAX-RVq90&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=ed44042d8c4c0df62e122eaabd9d51fa&oe=5F2CA3E3)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 09, 2020, 07:07:18 AM
He should stick to Drag Race.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 09, 2020, 07:11:35 AM
et tu, Ron?  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2020, 07:18:05 AM
That argumentum ad auctoritatem was just warm up.

QuoteHow deep will we be allowed to go into the Rabbit hole?

(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/107042409_188578835953777_2696886777366471416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=rQI25fAPM2EAX9Yth7C&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=2ec93aec88317793f495c6a929b0670d&oe=5F2BA97E)

PS: yes, photo "evidence".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 09, 2020, 07:19:49 AM
Mother Teresa's reputation isn't exactly stellar nowadays anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 09, 2020, 07:21:50 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 09, 2020, 07:11:35 AM
et tu, Ron?  :(
I haven't checked whether that one is legit, but regardless, Ron Paul been essentially a Russian troll for many years now.  Libertarians have used RT as their news source long before it was fashionable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2020, 07:26:00 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 09, 2020, 07:19:49 AM
Mother Teresa's reputation isn't exactly stellar nowadays anyway.

Maybe, but nowhere near what that FB post pic job says.
In fact, donations from Maxwell to her charity works caused quite a stir back then.
Maxwell's reputation has been quite the same for a while now.  :P

PS: I like Israeli Mossad (sic), just in case somebody did not know. Maxwell was rumored to work for other agencies as well.
That's from another meme mine FB group called Truth Warrior News, from the usual suspect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 09, 2020, 10:43:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620984_286846901666979_1067978058663524548_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=M3e9wJrVVvIAX86j1e0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=53bfe157b90c3c83cd95171e2751aaa4&oe=5F2B350A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 09, 2020, 10:51:26 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2020, 07:18:05 AM
That argumentum ad auctoritatem was just warm up.

QuoteHow deep will we be allowed to go into the Rabbit hole?
X9Yth7C&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=2ec93aec88317793f495c6a929b0670d&oe=5F2BA97E[/img]

PS: yes, photo "evidence".

I should be careful with that photo of me and Boris Johnson together :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2020, 11:06:18 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 09, 2020, 10:51:26 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 09, 2020, 07:18:05 AM
That argumentum ad auctoritatem was just warm up.

QuoteHow deep will we be allowed to go into the Rabbit hole?
X9Yth7C&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=2ec93aec88317793f495c6a929b0670d&oe=5F2BA97E[/img]

PS: yes, photo "evidence".

I should be careful with that photo of me and Boris Johnson together :ph34r:

Wait until someone digs up one of a very young you with Thatcher.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on July 09, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Is that one of those "kids giving the finger" pictures?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 10, 2020, 11:38:40 PM
Dunno, this date range seems a tad cherry picked ...

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91999417_2971874872870127_21497337813663744_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=jdR8aXNSoXcAX809uXg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5b13813de2c4e818f2fcfb98a4d2862c&oe=5F2E17AA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 10, 2020, 11:42:06 PM
Checking worldometers.info it seems that Corona has since overtaken seasonal flu, death in childbirth, malaria and is about equal with suicides.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://www.worldometers.info/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on July 11, 2020, 09:18:50 AM
Imagine having another 40 million kids every year that nobody wants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 11, 2020, 09:39:25 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/107477249_10219999783399244_2412229845269490781_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=KfRRrAvyhCsAX_s5YLG&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=2ee308b73924c4d6be6f8432d4ce9f07&oe=5F310A8A)

Sadly (?) only Germanophones will get the most of it. The gist of it is some haphazard comparison between Hitler policies ant the compliance or resistance by the population on one hand and mask wearing plus conspiracy theory thinking on the other hand.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 11, 2020, 11:04:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/108172454_3685691374778528_4972689977188608689_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=bLktmLSlLmQAX-VnwvO&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=192a867be8290a8e0800f2314473d5b1&oe=5F2F0549)

What's the opinion on this? From what I see Goya seems to be a decent company, but OTOH calling the US "blessed" for having Trump as president ... :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 11, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 11, 2020, 11:04:09 AM
What's the opinion on this? From what I see Goya seems to be a decent company, but OTOH calling the US "blessed" for having Trump as president ... :unsure:

The boycott is fine by me.

Only thing is these guys have kind of a monopoly.  Don't know where people will get their stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2020, 01:10:45 PM
QuoteChad Prather
  · Shared with Public

Muslim countries have used face coverings for millennia but their COVID cases are astronomical.
But make sure you put on your Gov. Abbott Muzzle to walk over to your brunch table.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 12, 2020, 02:54:13 PM
I felt like I need to react to that but I am not sure how. :D OMG
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 12, 2020, 03:00:08 PM
Speaking of Muslim countries, what's going on there with Covid death rates?  Some of the Arabian peninsula countries have death rates in the 0.1% range, and had been throughout, so it's not just a timing issue.  Did anyone look at excess death figures for the miracle countries like those, or Singapore, and see if the stories line up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2020, 03:04:53 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 12, 2020, 02:54:13 PM
I felt like I need to react to that but I am not sure how. :D OMG

It's by far one of the dumbest things I've seen them post in a while, and that's saying something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 13, 2020, 11:18:39 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/107592969_10224752621829774_4846036637428391773_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=IR9eRGhCrq0AX8cb68-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3fc8c437b7d9760aede4425c12d828c4&oe=5F336F7B)

QuoteMaybe we deserve what we get for being pacifists.

Here are some interesting points to think about prior to 2020 election, especially to my friends on the fence, like moderate Democrats, Libertarians and Independents and the never Trump Republicans and those thinking of "walking away" from the Democratic party.

Women are upset at Trump's naughty words -- they also bought 80 million copies of 50 Shades of Gray.

Not one feminist has defended Sarah Sanders. It seems women's rights only matter if those women are liberal.

No Border Walls. No voter ID laws. Did you figure it out yet? But wait... there's more.

Chelsea Clinton got out of college and got a job at NBC that paid $900,000 per year. Her mom flies around the country speaking out about white privilege.

And just like that, they went from being against foreign interference in our elections to allowing non-citizens to vote in our elections.

President Trump's wall costs less than the Obamacare website. Let that sink in, America.

We are one election away from open borders, socialism, gun confiscation, and full-term abortion nationally. We are fighting evil.

They sent more troops and armament to arrest Roger Stone than they sent to defend Benghazi.

60 years ago, Venezuela was 4th on the world economic freedom index.

Today, they are 179th and their citizens are dying of starvation.

In only 10 years, Venezuela was destroyed by democratic socialism.

Russia donated $0.00 to the Trump campaign. Russia donated $145,600,000 to the Clinton Foundation . But Trump was the one investigated!

Nancy Pelosi invited illegal aliens to the State of the Union. President Trump Invited victims of illegal aliens to the State of the Union. Let that sink in.

A socialist is basically a communist who doesn't have the power to take everything from their citizens at gunpoint ... Yet!

How do you walk 3000 miles across Mexico without food or support and show up at our border 100 pounds overweight and with a cellphone?

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez wants to ban cars, ban planes, give out universal income and thinks socialism works. She calls Donald Trump crazy.

Bill Clinton paid $850,000 to Paula Jones To get her to go away. I don't remember the FBI raiding his lawyer's office.

I wake up every day and I am grateful that Hillary Clinton is not the president of the United States of America.

The same media that told me Hillary Clinton had a 95% chance of winning now tells me Trump's approval ratings are low.

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money"— Margaret Thatcher

Maxine Waters opposes voter ID laws; She thinks that they are racist. You need to have a photo ID to attend her town hall meetings .

President Trump said —

"They're not after me. They're after you  I'm just in their way."

Now, go Back & Read this Again like your Future Depends upon it, Because it Does.  What say you?
Comments
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 14, 2020, 12:46:11 PM
So I'm on Twitter.  I don't post much and have (checks quickly) 8 followers.  But I do post under my own name and I do follow a bunch of local defence lawyers (only know of 1 other local Crown on the platform).

I posted something in response to a defence lawyer, and I got this reply:

QuoteAs a Crown prosecutor, do you get sexual pleasure from putting indigenous people in prison, or is it just some other form of sadistic pleasure? How does it feel to be in the employ of a family that is directly responsible for most historical wrongs of the past several centuries?

and

QuoteSorry if this was "uncivil," I care more about justice than the feelings of white Indian Agents.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 14, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Maybe he was just curious?  But, yeah, I myself learned the hard way that sometimes you're better off keeping your curiosities to yourself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 14, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
You know you don't have to answer, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 14, 2020, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 14, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
You know you don't have to answer, right?

:yes:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ff/f7/e3/fff7e335a4622f757838926ad75f7001.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 14, 2020, 01:08:09 PM
And what the hell is "prison"? He doesn't seem to know much about the Canadian system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 14, 2020, 01:17:15 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 14, 2020, 01:08:09 PM
And what the hell is "prison"? He doesn't seem to know much about the Canadian system.

Everybody knows that what they have is gaol instead.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 14, 2020, 01:34:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 14, 2020, 12:46:11 PM
So I'm on Twitter.  I don't post much and have (checks quickly) 8 followers.  But I do post under my own name and I do follow a bunch of local defence lawyers (only know of 1 other local Crown on the platform).

I posted something in response to a defence lawyer, and I got this reply:

QuoteAs a Crown prosecutor, do you get sexual pleasure from putting indigenous people in prison, or is it just some other form of sadistic pleasure? How does it feel to be in the employ of a family that is directly responsible for most historical wrongs of the past several centuries?

and

QuoteSorry if this was "uncivil," I care more about justice than the feelings of white Indian Agents.
Don't worry, Grumbler and Oex assured me these are just simple anecdotes.  There's nothing to worry about, you can go back to sleep :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 14, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
but you know, since someone asked, you can at least give you answer to languish :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 14, 2020, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 14, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
but you know, since someone asked, you can at least give you answer to languish :P

I would probably reply all indignantly about the number of times I have helped and stood up for indigenous victims of crime.  Maybe tell him about the time I prosecuted a white man for murdering an indigenous man, and who the system let walk despite my best efforts.

Then I'd tell him I don't work for the Queen - I work for the lizard people who tell the Queen what to do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 14, 2020, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 14, 2020, 01:34:07 PM
Don't worry, Grumbler and Oex assured me these are just simple anecdotes.  There's nothing to worry about, you can go back to sleep :)
[/quote]

This sort of bullshit is why I don't engage with you anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 14, 2020, 03:16:04 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 14, 2020, 01:52:53 PM
This sort of bullshit is why I don't engage with you anymore.
yeah, I noticed that you've become allergic to the truth ever since you started teaching in the US. 

But I'm glad that you never told me my experience with union thugs were just anecdotes and not representative of a wider movement. 

I mean, it's not like the FTQ has been accused of any wrongdoing in the not so distant past.  Stuff like generalized intimidation, illegal strikes, illegal political financing, money laundering, paying buses so thugs could go and twist some arms, helping radical students so they could engage in violent protests against the government, it's all just a simple anecdote.

Thousands and thousands of little anecdotes, but still not representative of a wider leftist tolerance for violence and intimidation. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 14, 2020, 03:53:01 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 14, 2020, 03:16:04 PM
yeah, I noticed that you've become allergic to the truth ever since you started teaching in the US. 

Thank you for confirming the merits of my decision so eloquently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 14, 2020, 05:44:13 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 14, 2020, 03:53:01 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 14, 2020, 03:16:04 PM
yeah, I noticed that you've become allergic to the truth ever since you started teaching in the US. 

Thank you for confirming the merits of my decision so eloquently.

:face:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 15, 2020, 12:02:59 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109079892_887480838397702_7297328337210775480_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=V01mnTaOPsIAX8HxtrT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=165a039d7e31dd87c877c7e46380fe51&oe=5F3467C4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 15, 2020, 12:11:38 AM
Are there any months still unclaimed?  It feels like every month is a laxative appreciation month or something of that nature.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 20, 2020, 09:39:25 AM
(https://scontent.fyhu2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109938687_158804492449226_8273076209623114115_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VyME6HSy7r0AX-Hz-h-&_nc_ht=scontent.fyhu2-1.fna&oh=b3eb10fa1f22e51067cc456eeba1cac5&oe=5F3A2154)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 20, 2020, 12:56:22 PM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109687495_10220083457571046_2016338269846135234_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=OBI0DZCt1rUAX-cGdEr&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=ee8fd3d269ce5c6c101f39089299599a&oe=5F3B84A0)

QuoteA really good idea .. and shows how nuts these masks are 😀

#WakeUpNow
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 20, 2020, 01:59:01 PM
I don't understand how making a non-functional mask shows how nuts masks are any more than building a non-functional car shows how nuts cars are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 20, 2020, 02:08:23 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nj0PQYfk/bala.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 20, 2020, 02:49:50 PM
Maybe they would garner more sympathy if they came armed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 20, 2020, 02:53:11 PM
I'm friends with a girl I went to Middle school (and High School) with on Facebook.  I admit, I had a crush on her in the 8th grade or maybe in the 7th.  She posted a video of herself talking about how God spoke to her and informed her about why the highest point of a tree is the middle.  And I'm thinking, "Damn, and she called me crazy".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 20, 2020, 02:57:38 PM
It's simple trans-temporal-arboreal physics. The center of the tree is the highest point in the localized multi-verse. :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on July 20, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
TIME CUBE
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 20, 2020, 04:11:13 PM
Quote from: PDH on July 20, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
TIME CUBE

YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 20, 2020, 04:11:41 PM
Quote from: PDH on July 20, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
TIME CUBE

Best Trump speech I think I've heard...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfIewVNFx4g
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 20, 2020, 04:24:11 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 20, 2020, 04:11:41 PM
Quote from: PDH on July 20, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
TIME CUBE

Best Trump speech I think I've heard...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfIewVNFx4g

That totally fails as a Trump impersonation.  Plus, Trump cannot read nearly that fast.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2020, 01:47:08 AM
Someone shared this on Twitter, mockingly:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdbQd9OXYAAuBa7?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 21, 2020, 02:41:50 AM
Babies have no bones?  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 21, 2020, 08:05:31 AM
Okay, this one has gotta be fake.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 21, 2020, 08:09:11 AM
btw, wtf are we x-raying babies with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 21, 2020, 08:14:59 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 21, 2020, 08:09:11 AM
btw, wtf are we x-raying babies with.

Apparently this device is called a "Pigg O Stat", used to immobilize babies for X-rays to reduce radiation exposure. The pics have gone viral.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.fatherly.com/news/babies-x-rays-viral-hilarious-twitter-thread/amp/

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2020, 08:41:17 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 21, 2020, 08:05:31 AM
Okay, this one has gotta be fake.  :lol:

At this point, nothing is too unbelievable.

QuoteRespondents reported engaging in a range of practices during the previous month with the intent of preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission (Figure 2) / / /Thirty-nine percent reported intentionally engaging in at least one high-risk practice not recommended by CDC for prevention of SARS-CoV-2 transmission (2), including application of bleach to food items (e.g., fruits and vegetables) (19%); use of household cleaning and disinfectant products on hands or skin (18%); misting the body with a cleaning or disinfectant spray (10%); inhalation of vapors from household cleaners or disinfectants (6%); and drinking or gargling diluted bleach solutions, soapy water, and other cleaning and disinfectant solutions (4% each).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 21, 2020, 08:48:35 AM
NRA Accidentally Forgets To Rise Up Against Tyrannical Government

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/06/04/nra-accidentally-forgets-to-rise-up-against-tyrannical-government/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 21, 2020, 08:56:22 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 21, 2020, 08:48:35 AM
NRA Accidentally Forgets To Rise Up Against Tyrannical Government

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/06/04/nra-accidentally-forgets-to-rise-up-against-tyrannical-government/

:lol:
That's legitimate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 21, 2020, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 21, 2020, 08:48:35 AM
NRA Accidentally Forgets To Rise Up Against Tyrannical Government

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/06/04/nra-accidentally-forgets-to-rise-up-against-tyrannical-government/

:(  Australia cannot into Onion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2020, 12:13:59 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/3JFLtQPT/dumb.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/g2cg5BW6/OK.png)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109968673_905005573243104_6166745955265149501_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VmwVYq1s11AAX9J-F9z&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f01edd7e786edf533cc8bec69c91e16c&oe=5F3C5190)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2020, 12:59:33 AM
Why does Donald Trump have two right feet and why does he wear filthy sandals?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 22, 2020, 02:02:32 PM
At least he doesn't wear socks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 22, 2020, 05:26:37 PM
Getting into Trump's shoes is the easy part.  Squeezing into Trump's gloves is more tricky.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 24, 2020, 12:15:28 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79205047_2687760391460456_4665130306536210432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=mD6QQG6GTxQAX_Sx0D2&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cb8750f3d31dbb568aa3d018303c4a2b&oe=5F41D2CD)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115797333_1173478446360765_1761493578466151673_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Nie-t52uDJ8AX-SIg2x&_nc_oc=AQkAefcZVel7FHWFzxzlyYGDkQD9HzfhA5wWzeKbPjcoUrviA-XQ6N1h9FMbItJ1ua0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ab47d8d0c5714179c9b7c4c50916726b&oe=5F3E62EA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 24, 2020, 12:25:08 AM
Those people aren't salvageable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 24, 2020, 12:26:06 AM
My favorites are when they share an article "ANOTHER COP KILLED!!!" .... then you google the officer's name and realize it was in January 2019, or October 2016, or ....

The comment above, with my sister commenting to her husband that they should think about moving to OK, because one DA there charges BLM under "terrorism" is not a joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 24, 2020, 12:30:12 AM
People beat their kids with a TV remote?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 24, 2020, 12:33:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 24, 2020, 12:30:12 AM
People beat their kids with a TV remote?  :huh:

Not in my home. We were a wooden spoon family. My mom once broke one on my butt when I was a toddler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 24, 2020, 12:45:12 AM
And are you out there rioting or not?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 24, 2020, 12:46:34 AM
I am not. And I avoided the BLM protests in Vienna due to fear of Covid-19. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 24, 2020, 12:48:05 AM
See, it worked.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 24, 2020, 12:52:11 AM
I would have preferred a family environment where I wasn't afraid to speak a word to my father, or trust my family with, well, anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 24, 2020, 03:28:00 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 22, 2020, 12:13:59 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109968673_905005573243104_6166745955265149501_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VmwVYq1s11AAX9J-F9z&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f01edd7e786edf533cc8bec69c91e16c&oe=5F3C5190)

Not surprised he wears clown shoes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 24, 2020, 03:29:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 24, 2020, 12:30:12 AM
People beat their kids with a TV remote?  :huh:

That seems dumb on so many levels
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 25, 2020, 01:53:22 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXKbNwvw/sigh2.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8CrYdNdL/sigh3.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/T1kQM4qR/sigh.jpg)

*sigh*
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 25, 2020, 02:28:20 AM
Thanks Louie this is totally new information.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 25, 2020, 03:46:37 AM
One party state, hurray..

What happened to the nfl?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 25, 2020, 06:27:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 25, 2020, 03:46:37 AM
One party state, hurray..

What happened to the nfl?

They backtracked on condemning Colin Kapernick's kneeling during national anthem protest, the Redskins are renaming themselves, and the NFL have pledged money to BLM.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 25, 2020, 06:52:33 AM
From the Brown Eye again:
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109727927_278315046924772_4614513771368543026_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=TPu_5_2p0DUAX-uUEye&_nc_oc=AQnQscLNDuvZmEd4qCZWeRu5ixgIEL5Ud4CyYBPISznNheyWMOvXVZLIPOGpDfcjsiOfljrLmrRZSS8x1WPnmKev&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=36df99e0746a4c61bb7eaec8e618eb22&oe=5F402FC7)

Nearly every central bank is a bit vague though.  :hmm:

I feel like watching the Rotschilds. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0248379/
Hopefully better, cinema-wise than Jud Süß, or so I heard. Anti-semitic propaganda level being comparable, or so I have heard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Camerus on July 25, 2020, 07:02:22 AM
Damn, that global asset bubble is getting out of control.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 25, 2020, 10:10:11 AM
I think the US government owes him a refund.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 25, 2020, 10:35:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 25, 2020, 01:53:22 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXKbNwvw/sigh2.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8CrYdNdL/sigh3.jpg)

*sigh*

Wait, I thought Cancel Culture was bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 25, 2020, 11:09:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/107781815_3273836635988020_1466483369548997352_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=XI7CYNxWAB8AX-P6_oB&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e80420706f110b0dbe481dac4343fc6b&oe=5F40737F)

QuoteLaura Jo
July 18 at 3:33 PM

While we are arguing over the efficacy of masks, a vile group of people are trying to make pedophilia a sexual orientation and believe it is 100% ok to be age fluid.

I just discovered age fluidity last night. Being age fluid means that a full grown man could "identify" as an 8 year old boy...OR an 8 year old girl if he is also feeling gender fluid on any particular day. So, if a 50 year old man "identifies" as an 8 year old girl, and is attracted to an 8 year old boy, then these sickos feel it is natural and should be legal for him to act on those feelings.

Ever heard of NAMBLA? The North American Man Boy Love Association is a real pedophilia organization that wants pedophilia to be normalized. They think the age of consent should be lowered to FOUR YEARS OLD.

Where do we draw the line on all of the "identity" stuff??

Our children are under attack. Where do you think all of the missing children are going? They aren't being taken in by good, loving people. They are being sold and traded in a very sick, evil community. And when they're done with them, they're killing them and disposing of them like trash.

This is one thing I strongly feel that everyone needs to get "WOKE" on.

I've never said "if you don't feel the same as me then unfriend me." In fact, I enjoy posts with respectful dialogue between people with opposing views. It's often enlightening and sometimes I learn something new. But, if you think pedophilia and age fluidity should be normalized, then unfriend me and lmk your beliefs so I can keep my family far away from you. #savethechildren

I wonder what it's like to live in a world of constant moral panic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 25, 2020, 11:55:05 AM
QuoteI wonder what it's like to live in a world of constant moral panic.

I suggest The Guardian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 25, 2020, 12:10:16 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 25, 2020, 11:55:05 AM
QuoteI wonder what it's like to live in a world of constant moral panic.

I suggest The Guardian.

Oh yeah, it's full blown hysteria.

(https://i.postimg.cc/HT4PnxYm/hyst.jpg)

:mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 25, 2020, 12:14:47 PM
Is "thicc" really pejorative?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 25, 2020, 12:19:50 PM
I guess you need to read it regularly to get the joke. :P

They are my preferred news source, but their editorials often lay the progressiveness and anti-governmentness very thickly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 25, 2020, 12:27:14 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115821257_2686543578286206_3865920454367632684_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=SvRbzu6vTgwAX_mHl6K&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=95035d9a21c47b4a7316c75aceef40df&oe=5F40A962)

The pictured buses belong to the Toronto Raptors NBA team:

(https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2020/7/9/1_5018494/_jcr_content/root/responsivegrid/image.coreimg.jpeg/1594346763170/1-5018496.jpeg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 25, 2020, 12:28:28 PM
Why is BLM buying buses for the Toronto Raptors??  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 25, 2020, 12:58:54 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 25, 2020, 12:19:50 PM
I guess you need to read it regularly to get the joke. :P

They are my preferred news source, but their editorials often lay the progressiveness and anti-governmentness very thickly.

Boris Johnson is PM.  How could one not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 25, 2020, 01:37:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 25, 2020, 10:35:20 AM
Wait, I thought Cancel Culture was bad.

It is kind of hard to think of what part of culture hasn't been cancelled by the radical right. They hate hollywood, they hate disney, they hate all sports leagues, and probably everybody else as well. I guess political propaganda is all they have left.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 25, 2020, 01:54:46 PM
I would content that cancel culture wouldn't include "that is bad, so I won't support it".

CC seems to be more "that is bad, and all evidence of it needs to be purged from my vision".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 25, 2020, 04:52:26 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 25, 2020, 01:54:46 PM
I would content that cancel culture wouldn't include "that is bad, so I won't support it".

CC seems to be more "that is bad, and all evidence of it needs to be purged from my vision".

Oh well who knows? SJW was supposed to mean insane culty types who purge with fire anybody who even says something off color...now it just means you are ok with trans people it seems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 25, 2020, 06:17:18 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 25, 2020, 01:54:46 PM
I would content that cancel culture wouldn't include "that is bad, so I won't support it".

CC seems to be more "that is bad, and all evidence of it needs to be purged from my vision".

Cancel culture is, from what I have about it, not so much "all evidence of it needs to be purged from my vision" as it is "make him/her/them pay for what they've done."  The boycotts of Goya from the left and NFL from the right are identical in that neither boycott thinks that they can put "purge from their vision" the objects of their disdain, but they think they can punish these organizations for taking stances the canceler does not like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 25, 2020, 11:37:48 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116336963_4711801218845281_8891475815699183029_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=FmlDUTQEh1MAX_UY5PJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c61018f51a942ebee4dab3595ab8f15f&oe=5F4352C8)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109592508_10221528807265118_1468576373702676047_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=2bEmZSHlFp4AX9GPABM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ad224ca43486a4e17b3e55d89ac72931&oe=5F448244)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 26, 2020, 02:25:52 AM
You'd think an Austrian would be capable of grasping that free doesn't mean free.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 26, 2020, 02:51:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 26, 2020, 02:25:52 AM
You'd think an Austrian would be capable of grasping that free doesn't mean free.

:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 26, 2020, 03:03:17 AM
Deserving has got nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 27, 2020, 01:51:52 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 26, 2020, 02:51:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 26, 2020, 02:25:52 AM
You'd think an Austrian would be capable of grasping that free doesn't mean free.

:unsure:

German. Woops.
Assuming it's your sister, coming from a country  with a decent social system she should be capable of grasping when people speak about "free education" et al, "but you have to pay taxes!! Its not free!!" is a dumb rebuttal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 27, 2020, 10:40:57 AM
All you need is love....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 27, 2020, 11:38:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94031530_521322038557405_2923416434014945280_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=LDJFym4hLk4AX9TPigJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e31c0c0634f7f24129259683a7f50198&oe=5F43DB9B)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116587553_1236978463310993_3392316448014304073_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=LiUSA_gLjg4AX8QW5eN&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=27a5b5001788ac3d9f059feb8880a5ef&oe=5F462699)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116104147_3408897389143909_5605198574881491749_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=8LuI7D3IU6kAX9ESQJt&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c384249b2e17d4689965e7944324bf05&oe=5F439616)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 27, 2020, 11:47:55 AM
That doesn't sound anything like Ronald Reagan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 27, 2020, 12:01:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 27, 2020, 11:47:55 AM
That doesn't sound anything like Ronald Reagan.

No way! :o

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ronald-reagan-keep-voting-democrat/ ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 27, 2020, 12:07:52 PM
I mean that sounds like a 21st century political meme. It isn't like Reagan never said any mean things about Democrats they could use.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 27, 2020, 12:40:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 27, 2020, 12:07:52 PM
I mean that sounds like a 21st century political meme. It isn't like Reagan never said any mean things about Democrats they could use.

I would require actual research.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 27, 2020, 02:10:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 27, 2020, 11:38:43 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94031530_521322038557405_2923416434014945280_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=LDJFym4hLk4AX9TPigJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e31c0c0634f7f24129259683a7f50198&oe=5F43DB9B)


I think your sister is falling back on reruns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 27, 2020, 02:24:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 27, 2020, 12:07:52 PM
I mean that sounds like a 21st century political meme. It isn't like Reagan never said any mean things about Democrats they could use.

Yeah, but "I didn't leave the Democratic Party - the Democratic Party left me" doesn't really match with the kind of fear-mongering they're going for...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2020, 12:09:36 AM
QuoteKarin M. Gadzo

I haven't had any problems using cash...yet. But, if YOU have had problems!

This is brilliant!!!

Okay Kroger/Walmart/ (insert cashless store here), your no change policy is going to cost you in the long run. I use cash for all my purchases. And I plan on continuing to do so. I don't need you to be a bank and hold my money on a card so you can draw interest on my money. And I sure am not going to donate to a charity of your choosing so you can then get a tax write off by using other people's money.

My solution is to pay with cash up to the change IE: the Bill is $23.35 I will give you $23.00 in cash and pay the remainder with a debit or credit card. The 35 cents owed you will now cost you a small fee and I will continue to have my change in my possession and not yours.

If everyone did this, I bet your business would find those coins quickly after only one day of service charges from your card processor.

Copied from another site

Good idea

Feel free to copy and paste or share.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116264584_2812759765672011_4665980207920870348_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=EKVHcL9OtmEAX_vpriY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=27bbe53def4ce0d801b9e4da2dd038d3&oe=5F44BDE4)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116432491_1480831422087662_3669709192167914686_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=j_znRpe9qtwAX_jlvim&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2cb50703055c20c3b7407915b892d6fa&oe=5F4442E3)
It's a PLANNEDemic! :o


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116246869_10222682574843852_1650567876250625881_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=QbBUcrvJEHsAX_CR0UH&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=40c09fac0af3c9d9b7c517a1e955731a&oe=5F448D30)
I put the images into Google search.
Top Left: Unable to find news story, but I find it in a right-wing Wordpress article from 2012, linked to "Muslim Riots in Australia". Police uniform looks Australian.
Bottom Left: West Australia cop beaten up in a pub brawl in Western Australia 2006.
Bottom Right: Officer David Rudd who broke up a fight on Christmas Day 2009 in Wyndham, Western Australia.
Top Right: officer attacked by a man in Brighton-Le-Sands, New South Wales, April 2019.

I'd correct this on my sister's timeline, but the response this got in the past is, "Well, but they're still attacking/hurting/killing innocent police officers." It's about the content of the message, not of the facts behind the images.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 28, 2020, 12:18:35 AM
The most soul-destroying part about these Covid conspiracy theories is that a lot of them are probably cooked up in Russia.  The degree of sociopathy required to sabotage pandemic response for the purposes of geopolitical shit-stirring is beyond my comprehension.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 28, 2020, 01:10:30 AM
Saying that Confederate soldiers died to free black slaves might be considered misleading.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 28, 2020, 01:11:44 AM
Cash fanatics are a weird breed. Why the hell would you want to use cash? It's inconvenient af.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 28, 2020, 04:00:55 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115909382_10213451777767713_8101717773523357242_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=oMYwzhNTzdMAX_nb5cT&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=d24353304c46ef8d93aac8943620c17c&oe=5F44B83E)

QuoteThis is EXACTLY what is happening.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 28, 2020, 05:00:51 AM
That jives well with Trump's reelection slogan, "Keep America Great."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2020, 09:05:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115695935_10219080171167544_257777227183522942_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=jkzei0-hj7YAX83LuHf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2dbd9554f682495d1f36c693c832bc27&oe=5F4561F3)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/102702733_121744529548493_1443807628677309237_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0Ax0_RRmZ1kAX8fQJZ-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3b3be9a6130a9463f56f3761a89a18d3&oe=5F46E8F7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 28, 2020, 09:22:03 AM
at least the donkey cartoon is kind of funny
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on July 28, 2020, 12:15:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 28, 2020, 01:11:44 AM
Cash fanatics are a weird breed. Why the hell would you want to use cash? It's inconvenient af.

Using cash isn't the point. Being told "no" is the point. How dare they!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2020, 12:49:12 PM
Shared by my sister (I believe the video was referenced in another thread); comment by her more radical friend.

(https://i.postimg.cc/h4M2Wp8Q/nn.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 28, 2020, 01:22:55 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 28, 2020, 12:09:36 AM
I put the images into Google search.
Top Left: Unable to find news story, but I find it in a right-wing Wordpress article from 2012, linked to "Muslim Riots in Australia". Police uniform looks Australian.
Bottom Left: West Australia cop beaten up in a pub brawl in Western Australia 2006.
Bottom Right: Officer David Rudd who broke up a fight on Christmas Day 2009 in Wyndham, Western Australia.
Top Right: officer attacked by a man in Brighton-Le-Sands, New South Wales, April 2019.

I'd correct this on my sister's timeline, but the response this got in the past is, "Well, but they're still attacking/hurting/killing innocent police officers." It's about the content of the message, not of the facts behind the images.

Well if they are doing that surely you can find some evidence of this occuring and not use lies?

So if you posted piles of murdered people from the darfur genocide and captioned it saying the police are committing violence against black people they would be fine with that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 28, 2020, 02:50:29 PM
From what I would figure about most people making those kind of memes, I think it is more likely they are just lazy and do a 2-minute google image search of "police injuries", copy/paste, add slanted political message, and move on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 28, 2020, 02:55:14 PM
Yeah it's not like Russian civil servants make a million dollars. They can spend maybe 5 mins on a good original meme if they want to eat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 28, 2020, 03:05:14 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 28, 2020, 02:50:29 PM
From what I would figure about most people making those kind of memes, I think it is more likely they are just lazy and do a 2-minute google image search of "police injuries", copy/paste, add slanted political message, and move on.

It is just frustrating when you call somebody out on posting lies they are just like "eh, so what?" rather than apologizing and promising to fact check better or something, you know, a normal person would do in that case.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 28, 2020, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2020, 03:05:14 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 28, 2020, 02:50:29 PM
From what I would figure about most people making those kind of memes, I think it is more likely they are just lazy and do a 2-minute google image search of "police injuries", copy/paste, add slanted political message, and move on.

It is just frustrating when you call somebody out on posting lies they are just like "eh, so what?" rather than apologizing and promising to fact check better or something, you know, a normal person would do in that case.

I'm starting to more and more understand what Colbert was talking about when he coined the phrase "truthiness".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 28, 2020, 03:12:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2020, 03:05:14 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 28, 2020, 02:50:29 PM
From what I would figure about most people making those kind of memes, I think it is more likely they are just lazy and do a 2-minute google image search of "police injuries", copy/paste, add slanted political message, and move on.

It is just frustrating when you call somebody out on posting lies they are just like "eh, so what?" rather than apologizing and promising to fact check better or something, you know, a normal person would do in that case.

I don't disagree there at all...it is one of the lame things about social media (as the thread title indicates)...those who tend to use Facebook primarily as their personal bully pulpit also usually tend to be lazy about it, and just lazily copy/paste every single lame, shoddy political meme or photo/slogan they find.

If anything, I think it is a stark sign of intellectual laziness.  Just make your facebook post an articulation of what you think...not just repost some crappy photo/slogan that you found/were passed/was cooked up by the Russians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 28, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 28, 2020, 02:55:14 PM
Yeah it's not like Russian civil servants make a million dollars. They can spend maybe 5 mins on a good original meme if they want to eat.
Depends on the servant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 28, 2020, 03:15:40 PM
Make love, not memes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2020, 11:35:23 PM
https://www.facebook.com/bucsfan1/videos/3425508000814662
QuoteMichael Stiles

Systemic racism does exist in the United States. ...
(Link has compilation video of blacks punching and attacking whites)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 28, 2020, 11:44:55 PM
Yeah, anyone can play that game.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on July 29, 2020, 05:39:03 AM
The first big case that I noticed of facts not fitting, so let's make up something that fits the narrative, was Michael Moore and his documentaries. I'm sure there are lots of cases before that, but that was the one where I became aware of how easy people can be fooled by just making shit up.

I don't remember how the Languish debate went that time, but I think it should have been a warning of what is to come.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 29, 2020, 06:26:27 AM
It's not all that new really.  "Remember the Maine, and to hell with Spain", and all that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on July 29, 2020, 06:43:24 AM
Yeah, propaganda is propaganda and so on. Jews eats babies, papists are the devils kin and so on all fit into existing beliefs in people.

That was the first time I saw it in practice though and/or the first time I saw through it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2020, 07:37:11 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13886251_1081712131865166_2460255939950011207_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=7TRkyEzb1mUAX_CkYGa&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=bd45c5d8a5f3f882df3949b33f30b5c4&oe=5F489211)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115695935_10219080171167544_257777227183522942_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=-1x1oakV7RYAX9zGNnz&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5471828b8bbd0e93425855e10bbcc65a&oe=5F4561F3)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/107957459_1208072046209861_3333734731803815145_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=77BPVq5UaJQAX8J2Y0q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=efcdf34098f99a3d09f3795eb2b60a58&oe=5F462737)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Xvr71WWc/detube.jpg)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115932013_10157021415215194_5568770156670653926_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_WNq7Yv1PboAX8ByblE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1bd8f439c66f39215b57eb6535ee7994&oe=5F46FC66)

The last one is from my oldest sister, the nurse. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2020, 09:07:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/110482192_3183344045080035_145800175859843841_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MzvqfbTYmWsAX-f2Yrg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=bf5bc879e582a6ba7bc5497e53cd7d24&oe=5F478971)

I will be taking a break from these. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 29, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 09:07:29 AMI will be taking a break from these. :)

I think that'll be good for your mental health, because you know they'll be going into overdrive in the next few months.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 29, 2020, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 09:07:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/110482192_3183344045080035_145800175859843841_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MzvqfbTYmWsAX-f2Yrg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=bf5bc879e582a6ba7bc5497e53cd7d24&oe=5F478971)

They've got a point. Biden never advised Obama to throw Donald Trump out of the White House.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 29, 2020, 11:02:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 07:37:11 AM
The last one is from my oldest sister, the nurse. :)

44 States have reported child mortality data on COVID-19 according to American Academy of Peditrics
That data shows that 76 children have died in those states.

66,667 x 76 = 5,066,692

The data on child trafficking is not super accurate and precise for obvious reasons but it is safe to say that 5 million children are not trafficked each year in the US.   I looked at a 2017 state department report on human trafficking and it reported about 8000-9000 victims per year (children + adults) for the entire Western Hemisphere.  That is probably lower than the actual, and you can find higher stats on the internet but obviously it isn't anywhere close to 5 million.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2020, 11:07:10 AM
But where else is the adrenochrome for the elites of the world coming from?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2020, 11:11:13 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 29, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 09:07:29 AMI will be taking a break from these. :)

I think that'll be good for your mental health, because you know they'll be going into overdrive in the next few months.

A last one for the road:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/105407209_10213063168453077_2406515503576486115_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=KbUyqiKdcrcAX8SEmld&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=abc8b4c29580087806021ec64336431e&oe=5F474DC3)

My nephew (previously niece) told his friends on Facebook that he's no longer checking in because he realized there's too many white supremacists amongst his friends since the BLM protests started and blocking them all would be unfeasible. His brother (who unfriended me :unsure: ) seems to be in a similar camp, but rather appear to have broken off contact with his parents. Appears to be a family trait. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 29, 2020, 12:22:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 07:37:11 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115932013_10157021415215194_5568770156670653926_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_WNq7Yv1PboAX8ByblE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1bd8f439c66f39215b57eb6535ee7994&oe=5F46FC66)

The last one is from my oldest sister, the nurse. :)

Yeah I am not going to wear a mask. That will sure show big pharma when I get sick and then have to buy their products!

Helping human trafficking? Now that is some impressive straw grasping.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 29, 2020, 12:24:10 PM
One thing I can't decide on is how we should view the Syt sisters among us.  Are they sick people who fell into a self-reinforcing rabbit hole, or are they just innately horrible people?  I honestly don't know.  I'd like to think that they're just sick people, because if they're horrible people, then we're enabling these family members by not renouncing them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 29, 2020, 12:28:25 PM
You can't be expected to renounce family. Blood is more nutritious than water.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on July 29, 2020, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 29, 2020, 12:24:10 PM
One thing I can't decide on is how we should view the Syt sisters among us.  Are they sick people who fell into a self-reinforcing rabbit hole, or are they just innately horrible people?  I honestly don't know.  I'd like to think that they're just sick people, because if they're horrible people, then we're enabling these family members by not renouncing them.

If anything Languish is what's weird.

Few people care enough about stuff to seek information. Even less will willingly look for someone else's contrary opinion once they've formed one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 29, 2020, 12:24:10 PM
One thing I can't decide on is how we should view the Syt sisters among us.  Are they sick people who fell into a self-reinforcing rabbit hole, or are they just innately horrible people?  I honestly don't know.  I'd like to think that they're just sick people, because if they're horrible people, then we're enabling these family members by not renouncing them.

They've always been pro-Republican, because in their view Republicans = pro-military = good for military families & their paychecks/benefits. She and my oldest sister both married American soldiers in second marriage. Her daughter married an Army Sergeant. Of my oldest sister, the two eldest are/were in the Navy, the other two kids are/were in the JROTC.

My middle sister complained in the past that "blacks behave like we still owe them something" and she wasn't a fan of Hispanics when living in El Paso. I remember visiting in 2002 and her storming out of a Target in NC shouting "Fucking n***ers, treating white people like trash!" because a black customer service guy didn't see us waiting and served a black customer first. But of course there's "good" blacks, too, usually other military members they met during various stations.

Her posting these things only started in force during the Obama administration. My youngest sister, married to a half-Native American, has started posting these things more in the last year or three.

I don't think we really talked politics when they were still in Germany; certainly not with my oldest sister who I haven't seen in person since 1986 or so. They all finished with the minimum school degree, and worked low qualification blue collar jobs. In a way, my oldest, with a nurse's degree has the highest level of formal education after me among my sisters and their kids. I wouldn't call them dumb, though. Unreflected, maybe?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 29, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
My middle sister complained in the past that "blacks behave like we still owe them something" and she wasn't a fan of Hispanics when living in El Paso. I remember visiting in 2002 and her storming out of a Target in NC shouting "Fucking n***ers, treating white people like trash!" because a black customer service guy didn't see us waiting and served a black customer first. But of course there's "good" blacks, too, usually other military members they met during various stations.

:wacko:

Your middle sister is so far beyond the pale she cannot even see the pale.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 29, 2020, 03:00:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 29, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
My middle sister complained in the past that "blacks behave like we still owe them something" and she wasn't a fan of Hispanics when living in El Paso. I remember visiting in 2002 and her storming out of a Target in NC shouting "Fucking n***ers, treating white people like trash!" because a black customer service guy didn't see us waiting and served a black customer first. But of course there's "good" blacks, too, usually other military members they met during various stations.

:wacko:

Your middle sister is so far beyond the pale she cannot even see the pale.


No, I don't think she is.  That's the depressing part.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 29, 2020, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2020, 03:00:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 29, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
My middle sister complained in the past that "blacks behave like we still owe them something" and she wasn't a fan of Hispanics when living in El Paso. I remember visiting in 2002 and her storming out of a Target in NC shouting "Fucking n***ers, treating white people like trash!" because a black customer service guy didn't see us waiting and served a black customer first. But of course there's "good" blacks, too, usually other military members they met during various stations.

:wacko:

Your middle sister is so far beyond the pale she cannot even see the pale.


No, I don't think she is.  That's the depressing part.

This.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 30, 2020, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 29, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
My middle sister complained in the past that "blacks behave like we still owe them something" and she wasn't a fan of Hispanics when living in El Paso. I remember visiting in 2002 and her storming out of a Target in NC shouting "Fucking n***ers, treating white people like trash!" because a black customer service guy didn't see us waiting and served a black customer first. But of course there's "good" blacks, too, usually other military members they met during various stations.

:wacko:

Your middle sister is so far beyond the pale she cannot even see the pale.

If that were so, there would be no concern that Trump might win a second term.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on July 30, 2020, 11:50:25 AM
It's weird how an intelligent German guy like Syt ended up with trailer trash American sisters. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 30, 2020, 11:52:37 AM
Perhaps they are victims of American imperialism.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 30, 2020, 11:56:38 AM
Their American husbands likely have had some role to play.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 30, 2020, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 29, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
They've always been pro-Republican, because in their view Republicans = pro-military = good for military families & their paychecks/benefits.

That's odd, GOP is historically strong on payments to defense contractors, but the Dems have a good record on military pay and benefits. It's usually the Democrats pushing for strengthening the VA for example.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 30, 2020, 01:19:12 PM
That is because the VA is a potential microcosm of socialized medicine.  :P

And I would say both sides are pretty much equal on pay/benefits.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 30, 2020, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 30, 2020, 11:52:37 AM
Perhaps they are victims of American imperialism.  :(
Could also be upbringing.  IIRC, Syt implied he grew up in an authoritarian household.  That tends to make you either authoritarian yourself in adulthood, or it makes you anti-authoritarian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 30, 2020, 08:57:50 PM
They do have this weird thing about how beating the shit out of your kids makes them better people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2020, 09:53:53 PM
Spanking and beating the shit out of someone aren't the same thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 30, 2020, 10:25:28 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2020, 09:53:53 PM
Spanking and beating the shit out of someone aren't the same thing.

Spanking is something you do with your hands.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2020, 10:58:30 PM
My parents used a belt. Still not even close to a beating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 31, 2020, 10:55:51 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2020, 10:58:30 PM
My parents used a belt. Still not even close to a beating.

Parents did all kinds of terrible things with the best of intentions decades ago.  Not a very good reason for continuing to do terrible things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 31, 2020, 11:26:20 AM
It wasn't a big deal. At least the punishment was over quickly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 03, 2020, 08:11:17 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116694360_287547786001498_6269844181420542690_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=ibOG-ZQKveMAX8XdPUU&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=a3778a14d733ebfc73cbda3bc902daf1&oe=5F4F997C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 06, 2020, 08:55:15 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116796853_288720485884228_3791537491312932689_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=v67-Hb33V4EAX-ijpDP&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=d9271d42a1b997baffb2c11fbb09ed9a&oe=5F524303)

From the usual suspect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 06, 2020, 09:52:53 AM
I get neither of these
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 06, 2020, 09:59:17 AM
False dichotomies, at the very least.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 06, 2020, 10:01:57 AM
What is he trying to reach with the stick?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 06, 2020, 10:09:39 AM
It just goes to show that I'm not living in the same mental universe as whoever made these - I don't even know why they are *supposed* to be funny.

Guys in a cell and reaches for a mask rather than the key. Is the message that he's a deluded soul who prefers safety over his freedom? Seems a dumb dichotomy even in the context of the cartoon - he could use the same stick to get both, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Gups on August 06, 2020, 10:27:04 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 06, 2020, 10:09:39 AM
It just goes to show that I'm not living in the same mental universe as whoever made these - I don't even know why they are *supposed* to be funny.

Guys in a cell and reaches for a mask rather than the key. Is the message that he's a deluded soul who prefers safety over his freedom? Seems a dumb dichotomy even in the context of the cartoon - he could use the same stick to get both, right?

Or get the key and pick up the mask after he's unlocked the door.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 06, 2020, 10:31:35 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 06, 2020, 10:09:39 AM
It just goes to show that I'm not living in the same mental universe as whoever made these - I don't even know why they are *supposed* to be funny.

Guys in a cell and reaches for a mask rather than the key. Is the message that he's a deluded soul who prefers safety over his freedom? Seems a dumb dichotomy even in the context of the cartoon - he could use the same stick to get both, right?

He is going for the mask first because he wants to make sure he is less of a risk to others after he gets the key and makes his escape.  Caring soul that one.

edit: not sure how we clean the tank without vaccinations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 11, 2020, 11:27:34 AM
Let's check in what my sisters are up to ...

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117402787_10224378038385374_4717376833494525616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=LxBKOhlLRbsAX91r8kA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=942c2fcceb6339afed47d0a1ed18cd7b&oe=5F57CA7D)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116873910_3115919491831215_3766601121277136389_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=qB0Oe7yyt54AX_XpB_U&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=150f9330b52e5ecb4b7083dc2df1f448&oe=5F569EC1)

:unsure:

Yeah, that's enough for another week or two.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 11, 2020, 11:34:53 AM
I thought that in their universe sex trafficking was a Democrat thing?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 11, 2020, 11:42:32 AM
It's definitely a University of Alabama thing.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 11, 2020, 12:43:33 PM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117587264_293106145445662_881152558252225643_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=HTYf1FWlUF8AX8Z1Pcv&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=41a638aab0dae070fb73b3d6064fc48d&oe=5F596B1E)

Syt beat me to it, but the ™Brown Eye™ could not pass upon such a straw man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 11, 2020, 01:36:51 PM
So why human trafficking? Surely gang warfare/drugs/non-whites owning property would be a more fitting whataboutism?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 11, 2020, 02:04:57 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 11, 2020, 01:36:51 PM
So why human trafficking? Surely gang warfare/drugs/non-whites owning property would be a more fitting whataboutism?

That's what you'd think, but Republitards didn't shoot up a DC pizza parlor because they thought it was a mere drug den.  I guess the phrase "human trafficking" makes them think "sex trafficking" and the word "sex" drives them even more insane.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 11, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
I'd agree with Grumbler based on what the poster writes, not to mention QAnon, the follow-up or rather recycling of the Pizzagate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 11, 2020, 03:39:56 PM
Qanon is coming back in fashion then?
Wasn't that specifically manufactured about Clinton? Fingers crossed it helps distract the idiots from making up new nonsense about biden.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 11, 2020, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 11, 2020, 11:27:34 AM
:unsure:

Yeah, that's enough for another week or two.

I wonder how long it will be before right wing nuts are just boycotting everybody. "Walmart just said Joe Biden ain't so bad!"

The sex trafficking thing just shows how out of touch I am with what goes on in their bubble. I have no clue why sex trafficking is a big deal right now, at least why it is a bigger deal than normal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on August 11, 2020, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2020, 03:39:56 PM
Qanon is coming back in fashion then?
Wasn't that specifically manufactured about Clinton? Fingers crossed it helps distract the idiots from making up new nonsense about biden.

There are even multiple GOP Congressional candidates who believe in QAnon stuff, including some who are guaranteed to be elected!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 11, 2020, 06:12:22 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2020, 03:39:56 PM
Qanon is coming back in fashion then?
Wasn't that specifically manufactured about Clinton? Fingers crossed it helps distract the idiots from making up new nonsense about biden.

The "Q" thing didn't get started until 2017, and hasn't slowed since.  It's closely related to the "deep state" conspiracy theory, which (in the US) also surfaced in 2017.  The deep state conspiracy theory is explicitly endorsed by the Trump administration.

Qanon didn't start the whole Pizzagate thing, but has maintained that the child sex-trafficking conspiracy is real.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 11, 2020, 06:15:52 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2020, 03:39:56 PM
Qanon is coming back in fashion then?
Wasn't that specifically manufactured about Clinton? Fingers crossed it helps distract the idiots from making up new nonsense about biden.


It hasn't gone away.  You're thinking of "Pizzagate".  Same song, different cover.

Frankly, it's fucking scary.  It's no longer exclusive to the US.  Two Qanon fucks went after Trudeu, and it's making inroads in Europe.  I read an article last week about Qanon groups in Finland.  There are some real parallels to the blood libel and that lie killed a whole bunch of people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 11, 2020, 10:51:07 PM
There's also German Qanon nutters, including a singer/celebrity who in recent years became weirder and weirder, starting with nationalist nonsense, via Reichsbürger beliefs (the current Germany is not a real country but a company created by the Allies and the German Reich never ceased to exist) to believing the elites of the world harvest adrenochrome from tortured children's blood in underground labs to stay young.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 12:05:35 AM
The fact they are not staying young, and continuing to get old, doesn't poke any holes in this theory? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2020, 12:17:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 12:05:35 AM
The fact they are not staying young, and continuing to get old, doesn't poke any holes in this theory? :hmm:

Or enhance their lifespan (the Queen being a prime example)? I forget. Apologies if I'm not up to date on my crazy conspiracy theories. :P

USA Today has a bit of a TL;DR:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/22/what-is-qanon-conspiracy-theory/5486724002/

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 12, 2020, 05:07:02 AM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117346606_10220255890121752_8046442277848953548_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=1UY_QH4OwHEAX-EMJE7&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=e78315b9139509c661cba35256aaffb5&oe=5F5A4636)

QuoteThe month of the explosions ... all coincidental of course ;)

More apophenia, I'm sure all of you needed it!

Leffe, Belgium is safe.  :P

PS : this seems like an "improved" version of a meme debunked partially by USA Today
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/06/fact-check-meme-showing-6-global-blasts-day-not-entirely-true/3307611001/ (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/06/fact-check-meme-showing-6-global-blasts-day-not-entirely-true/3307611001/)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2020, 08:01:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13450814_813297555471684_1408655787520572815_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=ba80b0&_nc_ohc=uovgXvl4dhcAX9VQEeI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=80fceb0243d7ac579806c22b5d932ea8&oe=5F5A2E2B)

Came across this one in the wild. Base sentiment is reasonable, but the solution seems a bit off. Because I doubt ex-politicians, connected to the Washington scene, would have trouble finding work in corporations as lobbyists, or as a "thank you" after providing tax breaks, friendly legislation etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 12, 2020, 08:18:52 AM
Yeah I don't like the whole bitter "cut their salary" cries. As if that's how they make their money in the first place. If anything, increase their salary and scrutiny into their spending so there's an incentive not to sell their influence for pennies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 12, 2020, 08:48:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 11, 2020, 10:51:07 PM
There's also German Qanon nutters, including a singer/celebrity who in recent years became weirder and weirder, starting with nationalist nonsense, via Reichsbürger beliefs (the current Germany is not a real country but a company created by the Allies and the German Reich never ceased to exist) to believing the elites of the world harvest adrenochrome from tortured children's blood in underground labs to stay young.

I never heard of the Reichburger thing, I suppose that's just in Germany.  It sounds like it has the same thrust as American Sovereign citizen movements.  The adrenochrome thing I've heard off and it really resembles the old blood libel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 12, 2020, 09:09:23 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 12:05:35 AM
The fact they are not staying young, and continuing to get old, doesn't poke any holes in this theory? :hmm:

Maybe not so easily enough obtained young blood, as in this 1973 movie, Traitement de choc:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070827 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070827)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 09:31:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 12, 2020, 08:01:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13450814_813297555471684_1408655787520572815_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=ba80b0&_nc_ohc=uovgXvl4dhcAX9VQEeI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=80fceb0243d7ac579806c22b5d932ea8&oe=5F5A2E2B)

Came across this one in the wild. Base sentiment is reasonable, but the solution seems a bit off. Because I doubt ex-politicians, connected to the Washington scene, would have trouble finding work in corporations as lobbyists, or as a "thank you" after providing tax breaks, friendly legislation etc.

If anything that plan would make them more corrupt, not less. I am fir term limits but 2 years/terms is a terrible idea. 12 years should be it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 12, 2020, 09:53:16 AM
I think term limits are a band-aid solution that can be worse than the disease.  I for one don't see a problem with having career politicians.  Politics is a profession, and competence in that profession matters.  Should we have term limits for doctors or lawyers?

If you're concerned about power that concentrates increasingly with tenure, then you have other structural problems.  You're better off solving those problems rather than limiting the competency of the people within that system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 09:55:47 AM
You can have a very long career in politics with 12 years in the House.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 12, 2020, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 09:55:47 AM
You can have a very long career in politics with 12 years in the House.
That's not a very long career.  My career in my field is longer than that, and I feel like I'm still learning.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 10:17:23 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 12, 2020, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 09:55:47 AM
You can have a very long career in politics with 12 years in the House.
That's not a very long career.  My career in my field is longer than that, and I feel like I'm still learning.

Plenty of other offices to serve in. Take that congressional experience and us it someplace else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 12, 2020, 10:21:20 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 10:17:23 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 12, 2020, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2020, 09:55:47 AM
You can have a very long career in politics with 12 years in the House.
That's not a very long career.  My career in my field is longer than that, and I feel like I'm still learning.

Plenty of other offices to serve in. Take that congressional experience and us it someplace else.
What's wrong with using it in Congress?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 12, 2020, 10:31:11 AM
I would have thought that Trump is the perfect example of why we shouldn't have inexperienced government officials.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 10:49:19 AM
Term limits are one of the most un-democratic concepts there are.  They're job is subject to popular vote...crying for term limits is essentially the same as saying the one doesn't like the results of their elections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 12, 2020, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 10:49:19 AM
Term limits are one of the most un-democratic concepts there are.  They're job is subject to popular vote...crying for term limits is essentially the same as saying the one doesn't like the results of their elections.

I freely admit that I don't like the results of our elections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 12, 2020, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 10:49:19 AM
Term limits are one of the most un-democratic concepts there are.  They're job is subject to popular vote...crying for term limits is essentially the same as saying the one doesn't like the results of their elections.

I freely admit that I don't like the results of our elections.

Which is fine!  But if you feel the need to put filters on the electoral system, then one might invite suspicion that the problem is that you also don't really care for democracy (unless it always goes your way...or your way most of the time). :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 12, 2020, 10:59:53 AM
There are a lot of structural problems, but I think one of the biggest is the compensation structure. You get elected to congress or the white house (or appointed to a senior position like in the cabinet), and your salary would leave you in the middle class. The way to get to the upper class is to cash in on the speaking circuit, through book advances, or a job with a company that you regulated. If you want to make real $$$, don't rock the boat with those that will cut checks on the speaking circuit or the companies you regulate, or do stuff that will help you sell books.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 12, 2020, 11:04:30 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 10:56:00 AM
Which is fine!  But if you feel the need to put filters on the electoral system, then one might invite suspicion that the problem is that you also don't really care for democracy (unless it always goes your way...or your way most of the time). :hmm:

For a lot of reasons, there is power in incumbancy (patronage, increased donations which may be a bit dubious in intent). That can be seen as undemocratic too, and term limits can be a way to counteract that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
It is my understanding that most of the "tenure" advantage that incumbents have is the lobbyist/donation-industrial complex...giving incumbents an inherent money advantage.*  That is perhaps the best place (and the hardest one to solve) to level the playing field.






*But I also tend to be sympathetic to the view that if one believes that money really buys elections, then you must think that voters are essentially gullible, which also means one must think they are superior to all those other "gullible voters" who are duped by that money, and at that point...why do you think they should have the voting franchise at all?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 11:09:16 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 12, 2020, 11:04:30 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 10:56:00 AM
Which is fine!  But if you feel the need to put filters on the electoral system, then one might invite suspicion that the problem is that you also don't really care for democracy (unless it always goes your way...or your way most of the time). :hmm:

For a lot of reasons, there is power in incumbancy (patronage, increased donations which may be a bit dubious in intent). That can be seen as undemocratic too, and term limits can be a way to counteract that.

It can be...but as I implied in my post that missed yours...I don't think it is the best way.  And in fact, the cheap, easy, and undemocratic way out.  But as I also said...the best way is the hardest one to get done, as it requires human beings to act against their own interests.  Alas, almost always a losing proposition.

But, in our system, it should show voters...if they're paying attention, what the quality of their representatives is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 12, 2020, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
It is my understanding that most of the "tenure" advantage that incumbents have is the lobbyist/donation-industrial complex...giving incumbents an inherent money advantage.*  That is perhaps the best place (and the hardest one to solve) to level the playing field.






*But I also tend to be sympathetic to the view that if one believes that money really buys elections, then you must think that voters are essentially gullible, which also means one must think they are superior to all those other "gullible voters" who are duped by that money, and at that point...why do you think they should have the voting franchise at all?

Money influences everything in politics.  One does not have to be gullible to be effected or understand those effects.  From the legislation created with input from lobbyists, to spending decisions influenced by lobbyists, to the cost of running for office and the need to fund raise to cover those costs etc etc etc.  money makes the political machine go.

One would have to be pretty gullible to think money did not influence politics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 12, 2020, 11:26:48 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 12, 2020, 08:18:52 AM
Yeah I don't like the whole bitter "cut their salary" cries. As if that's how they make their money in the first place. If anything, increase their salary and scrutiny into their spending so there's an incentive not to sell their influence for pennies.

Whinging about politicians salaries is one of the most annoying populist things going.
So many people just don't get that salary isn't where the truly wealthy gain their wealth and that they're effectively calling for only rich people to be politicians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 11:36:08 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 12, 2020, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
It is my understanding that most of the "tenure" advantage that incumbents have is the lobbyist/donation-industrial complex...giving incumbents an inherent money advantage.*  That is perhaps the best place (and the hardest one to solve) to level the playing field.






*But I also tend to be sympathetic to the view that if one believes that money really buys elections, then you must think that voters are essentially gullible, which also means one must think they are superior to all those other "gullible voters" who are duped by that money, and at that point...why do you think they should have the voting franchise at all?

Money influences everything in politics.  One does not have to be gullible to be effected or understand those effects.  From the legislation created with input from lobbyists, to spending decisions influenced by lobbyists, to the cost of running for office and the need to fund raise to cover those costs etc etc etc.  money makes the political machine go.

One would have to be pretty gullible to think money did not influence politics.

I don't disagree...but that point I made is, what does that say about human beings the effectiveness of democracy?  If it boils down to saying that one can almost put into an equation that "money-inputed=votes", then sure, it is easy to say "just take out, or minimize the money factor", but then isn't that also suggesting, that humans/voters might not people we should be entrusting with a vote, if they're so easily influenced by money?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 12, 2020, 11:41:17 AM
Is politics a profession?

Most of our constitutional arrangements (not just in the US) actually signal quite the opposite: that politics is not a profession, but something else. It is a remnant from the very old notion of "service" that was both inherited from ancient democracy, and from royal service - the idea that there was an inherent nobility to giving your time, and your life, to the service of something bigger. Service was not something you did, it was something you embodied. The qualities you were expected to demonstrate were those you already possessed, honed in the rest of your life. Hence, most men of the 18th and 19th century were wary, or quite hostile, to the election of the "improper" kinds of people, whose live, consumed by the the first basic necessities, could not allow them to elevate themselves to such higher considerations.

But 18th and 19th century men were also quite familiar with power brokers, the concentration of power, and the unequal distribution of the social skills that was necessary to make oneself agreeable, if not virtuous. Some appreciated it for what it was: a way to keep power in the proper hands. But others - especially those preoccupied by the inevitable corruption of republican regimes - also feared that this concentration made the connection to popular sovereignty more tenuous. If someone, by virtue of power concentrated, became impossible to remove by popular will, wasn't that a mockery of its sovereignty?

If politics was time and energy, freely given to the public, a lot of 18th century political thinkers (to whom were are still considerably beholden) sought to prevent it from ever becoming an actual "profession", because that meant valuing skills to remain in power, rather than skills required for disinterested public service. Some therefore came up with a variety of imperfect measures designed to prevent such concentration of power - like term limits, ineligibility, minimal age. Others, fearing public sovereignty more, embraced power brokers as a necessary intermediary. Paradoxically, it was the rise of mass participation throughout the 19th century that led to the creation of a professional class of "politicians", whose work was principally "linking" men of service and good pedigree, with constituted groups within the population. The growth of modern states and their bureaucracies, added the hordes of bureaucrats to the sort of clienteles that politicians now needed to interface with.

Is this still relevant? I think so. We can still hear echoes of the desire for politicians to be disinterested servants to the public, but we seem to be fumbling as to how to make it so, and how to actually express it in our cynical age. We still feel that politics ought not to be a profession, but in our time, when we value hugely skill in relations to outcome, we are wary of amateurs and dabblers. We want skilled people, but bureaucrats and administrators only have a tenuous link to the central principle of popular sovereignty.

Central to this conundrum, to me, is the notion of corruption, and the Trumpian moment has shown we are not well equipped to deal with the issue at all.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on August 12, 2020, 11:48:54 AM
The value of experience in politics is more than outweighed by the stagnation of having the same people in the same positions for 20+ years, never mind the accumulation of power. The problem with the tea-party/trumpists isn't their lack of experience: it's their ideology. The crop of freshman democrats brought in in 2018 has been mostly excellent.

However, rather than term limits I prefer an alternating mechanism where you can't run for re-election for a position you hold. At the very least it doubles the amount of exposure and ideas, breaks up the cycle of power, and has the bonus of not requiring officials to be constantly campaigning while in office.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 12, 2020, 12:00:53 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
*But I also tend to be sympathetic to the view that if one believes that money really buys elections, then you must think that voters are essentially gullible, which also means one must think they are superior to all those other "gullible voters" who are duped by that money, and at that point...why do you think they should have the voting franchise at all?

I do think that voters are essentially gullible, and I don't think I'm superior to them.

The presidential primaries were over by the time they got me, so I requested a republican ballot so I could vote against Trump. I was disappointed because he was running unopposed so I never turned it in. But the ballot was several pages long, and I had never heard of any of the candidates running in races with more than one opponent. I suppose I could have googled people and gotten "informed" and then voted...but that seems extremely vulnerable to the best funded campaign getting good online materials out there (including negatives against the opponent).

We just had a primary election for our county district attorney. He has been in national news as he tries to make big waves with BLM to save his career as he has 3 federal lawsuits against him, a state investigation on going, and he admitted to 14 ethics violations and paid a fine. 54,000 people voted out of 780,000 eligible voters. He lost--I didn't vote (didn't even know there was a vote).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 12:11:18 PM
I also really think we need to make election day a national holiday.  We could easily give up Columbus Day for that.

But if mail-in voting grows even more, that will probably be less important.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 12, 2020, 12:47:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 12, 2020, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
It is my understanding that most of the "tenure" advantage that incumbents have is the lobbyist/donation-industrial complex...giving incumbents an inherent money advantage.*  That is perhaps the best place (and the hardest one to solve) to level the playing field.






*But I also tend to be sympathetic to the view that if one believes that money really buys elections, then you must think that voters are essentially gullible, which also means one must think they are superior to all those other "gullible voters" who are duped by that money, and at that point...why do you think they should have the voting franchise at all?

Money influences everything in politics.  One does not have to be gullible to be effected or understand those effects.  From the legislation created with input from lobbyists, to spending decisions influenced by lobbyists, to the cost of running for office and the need to fund raise to cover those costs etc etc etc.  money makes the political machine go.

One would have to be pretty gullible to think money did not influence politics.


This is true, but term limits actually make that problem worse.  Legislators don't know their job rely more on lobbyists to write up laws.  Missouri has very strict term limits: You can't serve more than eight years in the legislature.  That's both General assembly and the Senate.  Combined.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 12, 2020, 12:56:47 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 12, 2020, 12:11:18 PM
I also really think we need to make election day a national holiday.  We could easily give up Columbus Day for that.

But if mail-in voting grows even more, that will probably be less important.  :sleep:

My state has 100% mail-in voting, and I still had to go drop the ballot off yesterday. :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 12, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
Rhode Island has a part-time "citizen legislature" - historically it has also been a morass of corruption. It may be coincidental but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 14, 2020, 11:21:58 AM
A little white boy was shot by his adult black neighbor. My sisters' timelines are filled with posts about the tragedy - more than, say the killing of George Floyd (not mentioned), or the shooting of Muslims by a neonazi in Hanau earlier in the year (one post; none after the nature of incident came out). It includes posts that the main stream media try to bury the story because of the races involved, and also this:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117671461_10220653987673209_2697348652538121056_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=7P4d6DMRFy8AX9aFCrP&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1b765ba2f3db1f94025474b4c9781771&oe=5F5A5A12)

(no motive has been released for the deed, drugs might have been involved)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 11:42:38 AM
This is just a troll and a fuck you. I mean it is not like this black dude is not going to be arrested for this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 14, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Is the "all lives matter" taking up the cause of Ryan Whittaker?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 14, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
It totally misses the point of what's wrong with the cases of police rampantly and without consequence murdering blacks for the lulz, obviously, but it is true that if the races were reversed there would have been a bigger deal made out of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 14, 2020, 12:10:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 11:42:38 AM
This is just a troll and a fuck you. I mean it is not like this black dude is not going to be arrested for this.

He is already in custody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 14, 2020, 12:15:20 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
It totally misses the point of what's wrong with the cases of police rampantly and without consequence murdering blacks for the lulz, obviously, but it is true that if the races were reversed there would have been a bigger deal made out of it.

Police are killing way too many of all races. That's the point that should be made.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 12:30:38 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 14, 2020, 12:15:20 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
It totally misses the point of what's wrong with the cases of police rampantly and without consequence murdering blacks for the lulz, obviously, but it is true that if the races were reversed there would have been a bigger deal made out of it.

Police are killing way too many of all races. That's the point that should be made.

A good point which is why I thought BLM would have wider support. Holding police accountable for this stuff helps every community.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 12:31:47 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 14, 2020, 12:10:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 11:42:38 AM
This is just a troll and a fuck you. I mean it is not like this black dude is not going to be arrested for this.

He is already in custody.

It is nice when a movement is already successful before it even organizes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 14, 2020, 01:12:05 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
It totally misses the point of what's wrong with the cases of police rampantly and without consequence murdering blacks for the lulz, obviously, but it is true that if the races were reversed there would have been a bigger deal made out of it.

You know, that's actually not true. For hundreds of years, white children killed by anyone, but especially people of color, were pranced across the front pages of the newspapers. The culprits (or accused) were demonized, long before they were ever inside a courtroom.

Our history on this is very strongly on the side of whites. It's only been in the past year or so that children of color have gotten even a touch of the same treatment.

So please don't say shit like this. It's simply not true. In the United States, the death of a white child *still* gets more press and more sympathy than any black child.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 14, 2020, 02:16:40 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 14, 2020, 01:12:05 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
It totally misses the point of what's wrong with the cases of police rampantly and without consequence murdering blacks for the lulz, obviously, but it is true that if the races were reversed there would have been a bigger deal made out of it.

You know, that's actually not true. For hundreds of years, white children killed by anyone, but especially people of color, were pranced across the front pages of the newspapers. The culprits (or accused) were demonized, long before they were ever inside a courtroom.

Our history on this is very strongly on the side of whites. It's only been in the past year or so that children of color have gotten even a touch of the same treatment.

So please don't say shit like this. It's simply not true. In the United States, the death of a white child *still* gets more press and more sympathy than any black child.

Yeah quite a display of ignorance on his part.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 14, 2020, 03:00:24 PM
To better rephrase, in the media I follow, ie leftist non-American news sites, this murder was not featured, but judging by the type of American murders they do cover, I think if it was a white guy killing a black kid they would have been better inclined to cover it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2020, 03:00:24 PM
To better rephrase, in the media I follow, ie leftist non-American news sites, this murder was not featured, but judging by the type of American murders they do cover, I think if it was a white guy killing a black kid they would have been better inclined to cover it.

We have thousands of murders per year. How many murders in the United States do they report every year that are not done by the police?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 14, 2020, 03:22:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 03:17:21 PMWe have thousands of murders per year. How many murders in the United States do they report every year that are not done by the police?

Media tends to feed existing narratives. In many places outside of the US, that narrative includes as elements "Racist against Black people", and "Gun-crazy", and thus, media tend to pay attention to, and report, those incidents.

Same in American media, that pays a lot of attention to antisemitism in France - and very little to islamophobia in France. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 14, 2020, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 14, 2020, 03:00:24 PM
To better rephrase, in the media I follow, ie leftist non-American news sites, this murder was not featured, but judging by the type of American murders they do cover, I think if it was a white guy killing a black kid they would have been better inclined to cover it.

We have thousands of murders per year. How many murders in the United States do they report every year that are not done by the police?

Only the ones where the victim is a cute, white, and blonde female.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 14, 2020, 04:03:49 PM
Chandra Levy wasn't blonde. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 14, 2020, 04:04:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 12:30:38 PM
A good point which is why I thought BLM would have wider support. Holding police accountable for this stuff helps every community.
I don't think it does necessarily.  Let's be honest, a lot of white people view police as a "muscle" to keep the black people away from them.  Them more you look the other way at their misdeeds, the more effective they can be as that muscle.  Yes, that does increase the risk that a white person would be on the wrong side of police lack of accountability, but that's a price many would accept.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 04:12:16 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 14, 2020, 04:04:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2020, 12:30:38 PM
A good point which is why I thought BLM would have wider support. Holding police accountable for this stuff helps every community.
I don't think it does necessarily.  Let's be honest, a lot of white people view police as a "muscle" to keep the black people away from them.  Them more you look the other way at their misdeeds, the more effective they can be as that muscle.  Yes, that does increase the risk that a white person would be on the wrong side of police lack of accountability, but that's a price many would accept.

Yes you made this point before. It had just not ever entered my mind that that is how some people think. White people who end up getting hurt are just collateral damage I believe you said.

So, as I said, I naively thought the reaction back in 2016 would be one way and clearly went the other way. A lot has changed in my opinion of the people of this country since then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2020, 02:30:58 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117728468_1268743070169981_6348545156333459413_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Qk5nw7_iTdkAX_VM8_Z&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=33f3ce597cf0068e0f45791118133b0f&oe=5F5FDD5F)

But they'll vote again Republican, because the Democrats will destroy America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 16, 2020, 01:32:20 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117696397_3181912688529742_6377096820973522056_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=jSNLsKhR7eUAX-QMaZ9&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=bd01bbc085d99c9a17554bd557e6496e&oe=5F5EA42F)

From you know whom.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2020, 01:36:23 PM
It looks a little shoppy to me.  Not that I know who Tyler Webster is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Well one tanked our economy and has killed 150,000+ Americans. The other hasn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on August 16, 2020, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 16, 2020, 01:32:20 PMFrom you know whom.  :P

You keep saying that, and I don't think any of us know who you're talking about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 16, 2020, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 16, 2020, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 16, 2020, 01:32:20 PMFrom you know whom.  :P

You keep saying that, and I don't think any of us know who you're talking about.

Yeah, this.  ^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 16, 2020, 05:01:28 PM
He has a thing going with Syt's sister?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 16, 2020, 06:51:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 16, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Well one tanked our economy and has killed 150,000+ Americans. The other hasn't.

Otoh, if you're a young child, your experience will probably be worse being trafficked than getting covid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2020, 06:52:09 PM
Thank Hod they're not of voting age.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 16, 2020, 07:54:16 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 16, 2020, 06:51:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 16, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Well one tanked our economy and has killed 150,000+ Americans. The other hasn't.

Otoh, if you're a young child, your experience will probably be worse being trafficked than getting covid.

OTOH, if you are murdered by your parents, your experience will probably be worse than getting covid.  "Parental murder is a bigger problem than Covid.  Prove me wrong."

We could actually do this for every problem any country faces, just by couching it in the right terms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 16, 2020, 08:52:57 PM
What are these people doing about human trafficking?  Because following batshit internet theories from Qanon doesn't actually accomplish anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 17, 2020, 02:10:09 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 16, 2020, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 16, 2020, 01:32:20 PMFrom you know whom.  :P

You keep saying that, and I don't think any of us know who you're talking about.

You are the one I have to to keep telling where most of the memes from that anti-vaxxer, pandemic, QAnon, pro-Trump, anti-5G and anti Bill Gates, vaguely libertarian conspiracy theory poster, come from.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2020, 02:22:33 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117353298_3479405818788780_1089733493856763552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lquAQcY4lDMAX8pCcDM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1f7338112f67e3d57a872cf075b4a55a&oe=5F609F46)

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/22/us/missing-children-fast-facts/index.html

QuoteAccording to the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) Missing Person File, there are 87,438 active missing person records, of which juveniles under the age of 18 account for 30,618 (35%) of the records. (as of December 31, 2019)

I presume this number includes cases that have been active for years. For example, for 2015, there were 634,908 persons reported missing, but 634,742 were purged, with purges including cases where the missing person returned home or was found by law enforcement officers (I'm guessing that's the overwhelming majority of cases):
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2015-ncic-missing-person-and-unidentified-person-statistics.pdf/view

My guess is that people are way too quick to report someone as missing when they just stay out a little longer than usual. Heck, when I was a teen, my parents could have called the cops three to five times a week when I hung out with friends longer than I said I would.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 17, 2020, 02:34:07 AM
Ok with this child kidnapping obsession, I am admitting it's social media's fault. No way this big a stupid mass psychosis could have reached this proportions without a mass medium, and as far as I am aware not even Fox News is actively pushing this on this scale so it has to be Facebook.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2020, 02:39:24 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2020, 02:34:07 AM
Ok with this child kidnapping obsession, I am admitting it's social media's fault. No way this big a stupid mass psychosis could have reached this proportions without a mass medium, and as far as I am aware not even Fox News is actively pushing this on this scale so it has to be Facebook.

Based on what I see on my sister's Facebook, they share a lot of "missing person" alerts from news sites (proper news sites), so I can see how the subjective impression could be that there's tons of child abductions while the kid is just out exploring with friends or whatever, esp. if there's maybe no follow up as to what happened in those cases.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on August 17, 2020, 04:40:56 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 17, 2020, 02:10:09 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 16, 2020, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 16, 2020, 01:32:20 PMFrom you know whom.  :P

You keep saying that, and I don't think any of us know who you're talking about.

You are the one I have to to keep telling where most of the memes from that anti-vaxxer, pandemic, QAnon, pro-Trump, anti-5G and anti Bill Gates, vaguely libertarian conspiracy theory poster, come from.  :P

And I keep having no idea what you're talking about...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on August 17, 2020, 05:00:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2020, 02:39:24 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2020, 02:34:07 AM
Ok with this child kidnapping obsession, I am admitting it's social media's fault. No way this big a stupid mass psychosis could have reached this proportions without a mass medium, and as far as I am aware not even Fox News is actively pushing this on this scale so it has to be Facebook.

Based on what I see on my sister's Facebook, they share a lot of "missing person" alerts from news sites (proper news sites), so I can see how the subjective impression could be that there's tons of child abductions while the kid is just out exploring with friends or whatever, esp. if there's maybe no follow up as to what happened in those cases.

It is a typical conflation of two facts to reach an untenable result. 180,000 people go missing in the UK every year, some of these people are children and some of them are murdered or trafficked for various nefarious purposes; so logically (  :P ) speaking thousands upon thousands of kids are murdered or trafficked in the UK every year probably by Albanian or Vietnamese gangs too.

Drain the swamp, deport illegals etc etc........it is all down to a lack of sense of proportion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2020, 05:11:38 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 17, 2020, 05:00:28 AMIt is a typical conflation of two facts to reach an untenable result. 180,000 people go missing in the UK every year

I presume most of those turn up again in short order?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on August 17, 2020, 05:42:51 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2020, 05:11:38 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 17, 2020, 05:00:28 AMIt is a typical conflation of two facts to reach an untenable result. 180,000 people go missing in the UK every year

I presume most of those turn up again in short order?

Of course, a majority are fairly trivial. As ever if you want to get an idea of the real picture then a few hours of research is needed. Something which the facebook warriors hardly ever bother to do. Looking at this charity's website gives some idea :

https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/latest-news/1018-missing-people-publishes-latest-uk-statistics.html

Poor mental health or a crappy home environment seem to be the main drivers. but that is boring of course.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2020, 05:44:51 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 17, 2020, 05:42:51 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2020, 05:11:38 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 17, 2020, 05:00:28 AMIt is a typical conflation of two facts to reach an untenable result. 180,000 people go missing in the UK every year

I presume most of those turn up again in short order?

Of course, a majority are fairly trivial. As ever if you want to get an idea of the real picture then a few hours of research is needed. Something which the facebook warriors hardly ever bother to do. Looking at this charity's website gives some idea :

https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/latest-news/1018-missing-people-publishes-latest-uk-statistics.html

Poor mental health or a crappy home environment seem to be the main drivers. but that is boring of course.

You mean it is NOT a vast network of the world elite abducting children to abuse them, torture them, and syphon their blood? :o

Then again, those people would have the power to adjust the statistics ...  :ph34r:

:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 17, 2020, 06:31:16 AM
Tbh in my experience at least in the UK it's far more often dogknapping you see than disappearing people.
Often with a conveniently dark looking guy caught in clear cctv shot as the suspect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 17, 2020, 07:25:16 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 16, 2020, 06:51:04 PM
Otoh, if you're a young child, your experience will probably be worse being trafficked than getting covid.

A nation's problems and one person's biggest problems are often not the same.

But why not child murder? Isn't that a bigger problem? At least the trafficked ones can still escape or be rescued or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 17, 2020, 08:41:44 AM
Incredibly, child trafficking has existed and been a serious problem since time immemorial, despite lack of any interest from Trumpy nutters that follow Qanon crap on the internet. There are organizations that track this problem and advocate for resources and attention to combat it.  Which involves, e.g., strengthening social services, funding local community resources, reforming immigration so that desperate migrants have some choice other than to turn to the worst criminals for "help", etc. and other things that the Trump admin has spent much of the last three years undermining.

Sadly it turns out that sharing memes on Facebook and increasing COVID infection rates by violating basic public health guidelines does little to decrease human trafficking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 17, 2020, 09:15:50 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 17, 2020, 04:40:56 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 17, 2020, 02:10:09 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 16, 2020, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 16, 2020, 01:32:20 PMFrom you know whom.  :P

You keep saying that, and I don't think any of us know who you're talking about.

You are the one I have to to keep telling where most of the memes from that anti-vaxxer, pandemic, QAnon, pro-Trump, anti-5G and anti Bill Gates, vaguely libertarian conspiracy theory poster, come from.  :P

And I keep having no idea what you're talking about...

Focus on identity is so identity politics.  :P
I thought it would be obvious, somebody on my facebook contact list. Given the focus on Germany, with some crappy German-speaking memes from time to time, it is easy to guess it is an acquaintance of mine. From my Frankfurt days, to be precise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 17, 2020, 09:25:59 AM
"Jews killing children is a much greater concern than the Bubonic Plague."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 17, 2020, 09:29:23 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 17, 2020, 09:25:59 AM
"Jews killing children is a much greater concern than the Bubonic Plague."

Well, he did not fall to those depths.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 17, 2020, 09:53:13 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 17, 2020, 09:29:23 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 17, 2020, 09:25:59 AM
"Jews killing children is a much greater concern than the Bubonic Plague."

Well, he did not fall to those depths.


It's the same thing, just updated for the 21st century.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2020, 09:56:41 AM
There's still such folks out there.

(https://i.postimg.cc/FRmdkqmH/antis.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 17, 2020, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2020, 09:56:41 AM
There's still such folks out there.

(https://i.postimg.cc/FRmdkqmH/antis.jpg)

Yeah, and what's ironic is that it was trivially easy to point out that no such person gave any such speech.  In fact, rabbi Abarron Haviv doesn't even exist online anywhere.

There's a car dealership in Tel Aviv called "Aharron Haviv," though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 17, 2020, 12:38:20 PM
He said too much, so the Elders have repressed any mention.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 17, 2020, 12:44:15 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 17, 2020, 12:38:20 PM
He said too much, so the Elders have repressed any mention.
:rolleyes: Always with the conspiracies.  The elders are just not very good with technology, being the elders and all, so that's why you can't find any mentions online.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 17, 2020, 12:44:37 PM
I make it a policy to never trust any quote appended to an image.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 17, 2020, 01:23:45 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 17, 2020, 08:41:44 AM
Incredibly, child trafficking has existed and been a serious problem since time immemorial, despite lack of any interest from Trumpy nutters that follow Qanon crap on the internet. There are organizations that track this problem and advocate for resources and attention to combat it.  Which involves, e.g., strengthening social services, funding local community resources, reforming immigration so that desperate migrants have some choice other than to turn to the worst criminals for "help", etc. and other things that the Trump admin has spent much of the last three years undermining.

Sadly it turns out that sharing memes on Facebook and increasing COVID infection rates by violating basic public health guidelines does little to decrease human trafficking.

:o :o :o

Wut?? Unpossible!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 17, 2020, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 17, 2020, 12:44:37 PM
I make it a policy to never trust any quote appended to an image.

(https://img.memecdn.com/amp-quot-never-trust-einstein-amp-039-s-quotes-on-the-internet-amp-quot---abraham-lincoln-1462_o_6859203.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2020, 01:48:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2020, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 17, 2020, 12:44:37 PM
I make it a policy to never trust any quote appended to an image.

(https://img.memecdn.com/amp-quot-never-trust-einstein-amp-039-s-quotes-on-the-internet-amp-quot---abraham-lincoln-1462_o_6859203.jpg)

There are so many things wrong with this. Do you actually think this way?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 17, 2020, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 17, 2020, 01:48:17 PM
Do you actually think this way?

Yes :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2020, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2020, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 17, 2020, 01:48:17 PM
Do you actually think this way?

Yes :(

The only way up is up. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 17, 2020, 02:04:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 17, 2020, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2020, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 17, 2020, 01:48:17 PM
Do you actually think this way?

Yes :(

The only way up is up. :)

Are you familiar with the mobius strip?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2020, 02:40:36 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 17, 2020, 02:04:21 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 17, 2020, 01:49:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2020, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 17, 2020, 01:48:17 PM
Do you actually think this way?

Yes :(

The only way up is up. :)

Are you familiar with the mobius strip?

Intimately.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 21, 2020, 01:36:15 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfO0AGtXkAAi4Dq?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 21, 2020, 02:34:35 AM
:lol:

And I woulda gotten away with it too if it weren't for you pesky kids
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 21, 2020, 12:54:00 PM
It's fake of course.

Although interesting how it projects Qanon-like revenge fantasies onto her.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 21, 2020, 01:04:55 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 21, 2020, 12:54:00 PM
It's fake of course.

:o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 21, 2020, 03:21:00 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 21, 2020, 12:54:00 PM
It's fake of course.

Although interesting how it projects Qanon-like revenge fantasies onto her.


I think this is one of the most important elements of the QAnon movement, and it is one that the press often overlooks. Yes, it is scary that large numbers of people believe there is a global conspiracy of blood eating satanists ruling the world.  What is much more scary is that there are large number of people who want Trump to form a dictatorship, suspend the Constitution and murder his political enemies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 21, 2020, 03:54:28 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 21, 2020, 12:54:00 PM
It's fake of course.

Although interesting how it projects Qanon-like revenge fantasies onto her.

But that's what gives QAnon its power:  that its followers believe that they are in an existential fight, and that they must kill or be killed, so to speak.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 22, 2020, 12:11:41 AM
QuoteNot my words, but right on point and I couldn't have said it better.

I never dreamed that I would have to face the prospect of not living in the United States of America, at least not the one I have known since 1979 when I immigrated to our beloved USA.

I have never wished to live anywhere else. This is my home and I have the privileged to be living here.

But today I woke up and as I had my morning coffee I realized that everything is about to change. No matter how I vote, no matter what I say, something evil has invaded our nation, and our lives are never going to be the same. I have been confused by the hostility of family and friends both from here and overseas.

I look at people some I have known all my life so filled with hate that they will agree with opinions that if they were in their right minds they would never express as their own.

It's absolutely unbelievable. I think that I may well have entered the Twilight Zone.....then I saw this and I think that it's pretty close to describing how I feel.

I'm not starting a fight, but it is something to think about. This may open up a ton of outraged comments by some. Many who will argue how "wrong" this post is. My suggestion, save your time and effort! You're not changing the reality of what we are living by trying to somehow justify this insanity. Nevertheless, I couldn't resist because we are becoming the Twilight Zone. We have become a nation that has lost its collective mind!
----------------------------------------
• If a dude pretends to be a woman, you are required to pretend with him.
• Somehow it's un-American for the census to count how many Americans are in America.
• Russians influencing our elections are bad, but illegals voting in our elections are good.
• It was cool for Joe Biden to "blackmail" the President of Ukraine, but it's an impeachable offense if Donald Trump inquires about it.
• Twenty is too young to drink a beer, but eighteen is old enough to vote.
• People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves.
• Inflammatory rhetoric is outrageous, but harassing people in restaurants is virtuous.
• People who have never been to college should pay the debts of college students who took out huge loans for their degrees.
• Immigrants with tuberculosis and polio are welcome, but you'd better be able to prove your dog is vaccinated.
• Irish doctors and German engineers who want to immigrate must go through a rigorous vetting process, but any illiterate gang-bangers who jump the southern fence are welcome.
• $5 billion for border security is too expensive, but $1.5 trillion for "free" health care is not.
• If you cheat to get into college you go to prison, but if you cheat to get into the country you go to college for free.
• People who say there is no such thing as gender are demanding a female President.
• We see other countries going Socialist and collapsing, but it seems like a great plan to us.
• Some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, and other people are not held responsible for what they are doing right now.
• Criminals are catch-and-released to hurt more people, but stopping them is bad because it's a violation of THEIR rights.
• And pointing out all this hypocrisy somehow makes us "racists"?!

Nothing makes sense anymore, no values, no morals, no civility and people are dying of a Chinese virus, but it racist to refer to it as Chinese even though it began in China. We are clearly living in an upside down world where right is wrong and wrong is right, where moral is immoral and immoral is moral, where good is evil and evil is good, where killing murderers is wrong, but killing innocent babies is right, where darkness is light and light is now darkness.

Wake up America, the great unsinkable ship Titanic America has hit an iceberg, is taking on water and sinking fast. The choice is yours to make. What will it be? Time is short, make your choice wisely!

Feel free to copy and paste. I did!!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 22, 2020, 12:18:27 AM
Oh no!

Anyway...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 22, 2020, 12:18:58 AM
"Those hypocritical, radical, amoral crazies have lost all sense of civility".

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 22, 2020, 03:09:28 AM
Wait wait. So he's upset about the state of america....despite the hard right holding supreme power and that these things are even pretend issues is due to them?
Sigh. This strong yet weak thing grows old.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 22, 2020, 03:24:17 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 22, 2020, 03:09:28 AM
Wait wait. So he's upset about the state of america....despite the hard right holding supreme power and that these things are even pretend issues is due to them?
Sigh. This strong yet weak thing grows old.

Just imagine how much worse it would be without them in power! :o ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 22, 2020, 11:06:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57593732_2254309661319389_3647480102586941440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=cW8GHOVuJhsAX_UtRqk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ff1c73152171a69e53f70bce9537468c&oe=5F66DBB4)

Stop being democratic! :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 22, 2020, 11:10:34 AM
But Democratical sounds too sinister.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 22, 2020, 11:10:54 AM
I am telling you, in those circles you can't have a post with correct grammar, they'd cast you out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2020, 11:20:18 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 22, 2020, 11:10:54 AM
those circles

How conveniently ambiguous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 22, 2020, 04:47:03 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2020, 11:20:18 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 22, 2020, 11:10:54 AM
those circles

How conveniently ambiguous.

We are talking social media.  Everything on social media is ambiguous to at least one person.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 23, 2020, 09:56:19 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117652686_10217643923159083_4310512394528216684_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ztiJYtcnOkUAX-RNnFU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0e182edd1dcc1df386fbf141b3ce860a&oe=5F699E93)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/105770231_740027343416079_8703263989355301328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xak5cs4OqDAAX-0meRD&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b57a5e91ef5bc4220d984a725a6b128c&oe=5F67803D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 23, 2020, 10:13:18 AM
Heads without brains
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 23, 2020, 10:26:29 AM
It is so weird that smoking was ever considered cool. What's weirder is that judging by that logo some still consider it cool.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 23, 2020, 10:32:54 AM
I have no idea if Clint said what is plastered there...but I have seen the interview with Morgan Freeman, and he did say almost all of that. 

Of course, as with anyone, celebrity or not, that's just like...his opinion, man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 23, 2020, 03:31:17 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 23, 2020, 10:32:54 AM
I have no idea if Clint said what is plastered there...but I have seen the interview with Morgan Freeman, and he did say almost all of that. 

Of course, as with anyone, celebrity or not, that's just like...his opinion, man.

The operative part is: « I'll ask you to stop calling me a black man ».
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 26, 2020, 01:21:51 AM
Quote"It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, mobile phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault, you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility.

When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.

Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colors, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.

They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.

They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.

Many law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.

If you want to protect your child, teach them respect."
~ Sheriff David Clarke

Regarding the fear of officers of being shot:

Cops killed by guns:
48 in 2019 (https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2019)

People killed by cops:
999 in 2019 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/)

People killed by guns (excl. suicides which make up ca. 60% of gun related deaths https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/aug/21/jason-miyares/62-us-gun-deaths-are-suicides/):
15,292 in 2019 (https://www.thetrace.org/2020/01/gun-deaths-2019-increase/)


Re: David Clarke, he ... has an interesting track record in Milwaukee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Clarke_(sheriff)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 26, 2020, 09:15:26 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117796664_3193225354103686_1383969897861707748_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vX3po6_DU7QAX-aHRik&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=49dfd5a21f7df78567df9018a776432f&oe=5F6B9011)

:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2020, 09:26:20 AM
798 children went missing in just one day?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 26, 2020, 09:27:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 26, 2020, 09:26:20 AM
798 children went missing in just one day?

796 showed up within an hour of being reported missing? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on August 26, 2020, 09:44:27 AM
Hundreds of thousands of children "go missing" in the USA every year. Fortunately, the vast majority of those are returned very quickly.

How many of those COVID deaths are getting back up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 26, 2020, 09:47:50 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 26, 2020, 09:44:27 AM
Hundreds of thousands of children "go missing" in the USA every year. Fortunately, the vast majority of those are returned very quickly.

How many of those COVID deaths are getting back up?

When was the last day the US had 161 Covid deaths? This was originally posted on August 19th, though some commenters say that the Covid death numbers are hugely inflated, anyways.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 26, 2020, 09:48:08 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 26, 2020, 09:44:27 AM
Hundreds of thousands of children "go missing" in the USA every year. Fortunately, the vast majority of those are returned very quickly.

How many of those COVID deaths are getting back up?

Why do liberals only care about COVID deaths while nothing is being done about the rampant zombie problem?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2020, 09:48:58 AM
They have been saying they are hugely inflated since April. It is why there is little useful discussion going on in the United States now, nobody can even agree on the basic facts, which makes it hard to agree on any action.

And likewise I am not entirely convinced that child sex traffickers are running the US government.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 26, 2020, 10:50:32 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 26, 2020, 09:27:46 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 26, 2020, 09:26:20 AM
798 children went missing in just one day?

796 showed up within an hour of being reported missing? :P

I think the meme writers picked the wrong issue to which compare covid deaths; the children missing one is really stupid.

They should have gone with heart disease. It really does kill more people, and you could work angles like that it disproportionately kills men (so does covid, but whatever) that the media doesn't care about (maybe even that the media doesn't realize the huge cost of families without fathers!). The age of death is younger (I think, didn't check) and most are preventable, but we don't shut down the economy to save those lives (because heart disease can't be blamed on Trump before an election). Probably most agricultural companies lean republican, but maybe there is one that leans democrat that you can tie into some nefarious lobbying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 26, 2020, 10:54:41 AM
The point of the meme is not that Covid is less dangerous than [insert topic here], but that thousands and thousands of children in the US disappear, to be sold into (sex) slavery.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 26, 2020, 11:01:16 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 26, 2020, 10:50:32 AM
I think the meme writers picked the wrong issue to which compare covid deaths; the children missing one is really stupid.

It is a Qanon thing, they don't care about heart disease.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 26, 2020, 11:02:32 AM
Well that is epically stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 26, 2020, 01:05:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 26, 2020, 10:50:32 AM
They should have gone with heart disease. It really does kill more people, and you could work angles like that it disproportionately kills men (so does covid, but whatever) that the media doesn't care about (maybe even that the media doesn't realize the huge cost of families without fathers!). The age of death is younger (I think, didn't check) and most are preventable, but we don't shut down the economy to save those lives (because heart disease can't be blamed on Trump before an election). Probably most agricultural companies lean republican, but maybe there is one that leans democrat that you can tie into some nefarious lobbying.

If heart disease was contagious the same people would be calling to close stuff down, and for the same reason.

We don't shut down the economy to save people from heart disease because enforcing social distance doesn't do anything to stop heart disease, unless you practice distancing from beef jerky  Lefty types do express interest in heart disease - i.e. promoting healthy diet and greater access and utilization of health care. As Valmy indicates, that is not of interest to the average Qanoner
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 26, 2020, 04:37:12 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 26, 2020, 10:54:41 AM
The point of the meme is not that Covid is less dangerous than [insert topic here], but that thousands and thousands of children in the US disappear, to be sold into (sex) slavery.
that's some underground complex for a single pizzeria!  Maybe there's more than one?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 27, 2020, 12:13:49 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118309417_857747208090229_300886260021627910_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=4AH18wYMud8AX86d3JT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c2c1ccf8fa8e4313f5572f91e2820ddf&oe=5F6CC6A8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 27, 2020, 12:45:14 AM
How do we solve the problem of moronic assholes making memes?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 27, 2020, 01:33:43 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 27, 2020, 12:45:14 AM
How do we solve the problem of moronic assholes making memes?  :hmm:

COMPLY, CITIZEN

(https://e7.pngegg.com/pngimages/738/648/png-clipart-ed-209-hollywood-theatrical-property-film-figurine-robocop-heroes-photography.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 27, 2020, 04:26:21 AM
I was thinking it is definitely progress that during this latest pandemic, the Jews are blamed through a very elaborate and obscure reimagination of age-old tropes, so much so that probably many people believing them don't actually make the direct connection to baby-eating Jews in their mind.

Compare that to pandemics of earlier centuries where they would just straight out pogrom Jews for it, and you can see clear progress.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 27, 2020, 11:50:29 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/QtbyQ8Cp/bs.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 27, 2020, 12:13:49 PM
 :rolleyes: Where do all these harvested organs go?  Over here, a kidney on the black market still costs you an arm and a leg.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 27, 2020, 12:32:10 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 27, 2020, 11:50:29 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/QtbyQ8Cp/bs.jpg)
That actually corresponds to reputable international statistics on trafficking of children, so it does not fit this thread I guess. We all should be mad about that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 27, 2020, 12:43:42 PM
What about the adults sold for those things?  Why does no one care about them!?  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on August 27, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 27, 2020, 12:13:49 PM
:rolleyes: Where do all these harvested organs go?  Over here, a kidney on the black market still costs you an arm and a leg.

I expect you're looking at adult kidneys. Kids kidneys are much, much cheaper because the market is over-saturated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 27, 2020, 01:04:54 PM
Quote from: Zanza on August 27, 2020, 12:32:10 PM
That actually corresponds to reputable international statistics on trafficking of children, so it does not fit this thread I guess. We all should be mad about that.

True, but it's mostly deflection. When the public discourse was about refugees, it was, "We need to take care of our poor at home first!"
Now that the main discourse is about issues it home, it's "We must fight global human traficking."

Though to be fair my sisters probably think that the numbers apply to the US unless stated otherwise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 27, 2020, 02:50:25 PM
Surely they don't think a kid gets kidnapped by traffickers in the United States every 30 seconds. That would be over 1 million children a year. We only have 3 million children born a year here. That's crazy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on August 27, 2020, 02:58:00 PM
Something like 90% of missing children are runaways, mostly older.  They are often multiple repeat runaways and they are counted as missing multiple times until they fall foul of the Hollywood elites and are harvested to make Adrenochome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 27, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 27, 2020, 01:04:54 PM
Quote from: Zanza on August 27, 2020, 12:32:10 PM
That actually corresponds to reputable international statistics on trafficking of children, so it does not fit this thread I guess. We all should be mad about that.

True, but it's mostly deflection. When the public discourse was about refugees, it was, "We need to take care of our poor at home first!"
Now that the main discourse is about issues it home, it's "We must fight global human traficking."

Though to be fair my sisters probably think that the numbers apply to the US unless stated otherwise.


You can throw them for a loop and say we can't fight global trafficking until every veteran has a home.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 27, 2020, 03:47:28 PM
If you're homeless, just buy a house.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 27, 2020, 04:51:44 PM
Let them buy homes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 27, 2020, 10:21:47 PM
Homes are the new cake
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 28, 2020, 02:24:16 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109812770_3571940069505467_7055403244879870562_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=LotkBlG4HVoAX-Ahe7R&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7a6a4631e8adf865117967e8ebf862e9&oe=5F703021)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2020, 03:12:34 AM
That one looks familiar.  Might be a dupe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 28, 2020, 03:19:27 AM
Yeah I am sure we have seen white trash alcoholic lady's words of wisdom before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 28, 2020, 03:51:10 AM
Yesterday on twitter, I saw people posting about this awful man that was keeping lions imprisoned and that one of the lions killed him. All the comments were about how he got what he deserved. Apparently in reference to headline by the Independent:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/lions-west-mathewson-lion-tree-top-lodge-hoedspruit-south-africa-a9691386.html
QuoteMan who kept two lionesses captive at safari lodge mauled to death while taking them on morning walk

Then today, I've seen this Guardian article (which shares similar headline to BBC take).

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/28/south-african-conservationist-killed-by-lions-he-reared
QuoteSouth African conservationist killed by lions he reared

A South African conservationist has been killed by lions he hand-reared. West Mathewson, 69, was walking two white lionesses on Wednesday when one of the animals attacked and killed him without warning, his family said on Thursday.

The incident took place on the premises of the family-owned Lion Tree Top Lodge, in South Africa's northern Limpopo province.

Known as "Uncle West", Mathewson had raised the lions since they were cubs and was used to interacting with them.

Mathewson's wife Gill, 65, was driving behind her husband when the lion attacked. "She tried her best to rescue her husband, but was unable to do so," family attorney Marina Botha said in a statement.

In 2017, the two white lions reportedly escaped from the lodge and killed a man working at a neighbouring property, Ngama Lodge. Mathewson said at the time that the lions were not aggressive and that he walks with them three to four hours a day.

The lions have be temporarily moved to a facility while a decision on their future is made. The family assured they would be "released into the best environment available to them".

Mathewson is believed to have rescued the lions from "canned hunting" – when animals are hunted in an enclosed area, or are bred for hunting.

Mathewson and his wife had four sons and six grandchildren.

"The family is heartbroken by the loss of their husband, father and grandfather," the statement from Botha said. "They find comfort and peace with the fact that he died while living his dream, being in nature and with his lions."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 28, 2020, 04:04:25 AM
So the second time they attacked a human? They should be put down instead of released.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 28, 2020, 04:05:23 AM
Why did he get to keep them after 2017?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 28, 2020, 07:57:02 AM
Clearly the Independent got it wrong.  :P

Also, here is an article regarding the 2017 attack:

https://lowvelder.co.za/369790/diabetes-causes-man-to-die-after-attack/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 28, 2020, 08:01:05 AM
Ah yes, the US police version of what kills someone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 29, 2020, 11:52:30 AM
Shared by my sis:

https://www.westernjournal.com/blunt-open-letter-conservative-friends-left/?fbclid=IwAR3UByiB7jJhbBoklXnwWVIdSFG3aiYozq2z0j32hzH5TD1URpnCbdtiYhg

QuoteA Blunt Open Letter from a Conservative to His Friends on the Left

By Josh Manning
Published August 28, 2020 at 7:00pm

Dear friends,

Most of us know each other from years spent in academe, when I was either a student or an administrator. Even though we disagree on an enormous number of issues, if you're reading this I think fondly of you. And that fondness, combined with my love of freedom and America and my horror at what's happening in our streets, leads me to write this blunt piece. Hopefully at least a few of you will read this.

If you're actively on the left right now, please leave. I beg you.

The left is the mortal enemy of America, bent on its destruction. What's happening in America's streets should be enough to show you that.

Maybe you say, "I don't support them, but I sympathize with their goals." Please remember that the leftists of yesterday — Marxist Communists — knew if they could get just 1 percent of any population to convert and 9 percent of that same population to sympathize, they could take the population over.

If you sympathize with the left but don't act on its behalf, you're still one of the 9 percent helping that 1 percent bent on destroying America.

What we're seeing in the streets isn't about race; otherwise, minority neighborhoods wouldn't be the ones being looted and burned to the ground.

A picture that will remain seared in my memory for years is the one showing a church's sign with large magnetic letters underneath the logo declaring, "Black Lives Matter."

The sign was on fire as the rest of the area blazed from riots supposedly done to show black lives matter.

What we're seeing isn't rioting over police brutality. In Minneapolis, riots broke out after a homicide suspect committed suicide while police were nearby.

He killed himself and the result was rioting. That's not about race. That's about an excuse, an excuse to take peace from Americans and instill fear in its place — fear that defiance of the left will result in similar riots in your neighborhood.

What we're seeing are anarchists being used by very shrewd, very devout leftists. None of this, so far, is new, and none of this sounds like you (at least the you I once knew).

Look at every other leftist or communist revolution in history. They all look eerily similar. Civil society and innocent lives destroyed by marauding bands declaring themselves justice seekers for the rest of society — or social justice warriors, if you will.

One thing, however, is new. This nascent leftist revolution is happening in the oldest living republic on the planet, and that, ironically, makes America more vulnerable to this revolution in a particular and unexpected way.

The American Constitution enshrines protections for protests, speech, association and economic self-determination. As Victor Davis Hanson recently pointed out, those protections have created a world in which rioters can

1) Count on the same due process they defy in dealing with others, since it will keep them from being beaten to death en masse by cops in the streets.

2) Count on the same First Amendment they decry, since it allows them to raise their bullhorns and shout obscenities and spread anti-American rhetoric without fear of reprisal from the government or other citizens.

3) Count on the unfathomably powerful free-enterprise American economy they call exploitative, since it lets them leave civil society, sow chaos, produce nothing of value and still have food on the table when they come home from a hard night's looting.

4) Count on the technology crafted by post-war technology the U.S. made possible, since it allows them to spread a message of hate for the U.S., free-market economies and the post-war world.

5) Count on being allowed to scream "microaggression" when someone mispronounces a name but also think it's perfectly fine to scream in perfect strangers' faces in an attempt to intimidate them into capitulating to the left's moral, political and social superiority. (Consider how these same screamers would respond if they saw someone screaming at an animal the way they scream at human beings — they would almost certainly call for jail time).

Friends, I just can't believe most of you, in your heart of hearts, support this. Most of you are goodhearted and feel driven to correct inequities you see all over your worlds. That's usually good.

But when you throw in with the left, you're not throwing in to correct these inequities. You instead are actively working to transform the world's oldest living republic into the world's newest dystopia, because dystopia is unfailingly the end product of leftism.

The left killed 100 million innocent men, women and children in the 20th century. And the only thing that has changed is that humans have gotten much better at killing each other. If we allow leftism to begin spreading again, how many more millions will die of malnutrition, in re-education camps (as is happening in China with the Muslim minority as you read this) and from territorial squabbles?

Yes, you're right: There is inequality in the U.S. and in free-market economies. But those free-market economies, led by the U.S., have lifted more people out of poverty around the globe in the last 50 years than the last 500 combined. No leftist nation did that or even helped do that in any significant way.

We have doubled life expectancy worldwide since 1913 thanks to technology that has come from free-market economies, not leftist revolutionary states.

Thanks to free-enterprise technology and U.S. Navy-protected shipping lanes, between the years 1990 and 2013, over a billion people were lifted out of extreme poverty. That's roughly 119,000 human beings per day, every day, for 23 solid years. Leftist states can make no claim that comes within light-years of that.

No leftist experiment has ever accomplished these things. Additionally, no two free-market, liberal (as in Jeffersonian, not leftist) nations have ever fought a war. Communist nations have no problem annexing each other with the use of tanks, planes and bombs.

My friends, I can't believe that you think a world where we're all closer to equal but all radically more miserable and poorer is a good one. But that's the world we face when we consider turning power over to the left. It has never, ever ended otherwise.

Venezuela is just the latest in a long line of horrible, failed leftist experiments, where, yes, the majority of people have been equalized, but they are now equally less well-off than the poor before the leftists took over. That's not progress. It's just equality of misery and deprivation.

Conservatives and traditional Americans don't eye the left suspiciously because we want inequality. We distrust the left because we know that the equality leftism brings is horrific and far worse than even the most horrible conditions under free-market economies in nations that follow Judeo-Christian values.

Friends, if you care for the poor, the unfortunate, the forgotten and the marginalized, you're not alone. Believe it or not, we conservatives also want to help those cast away and forgotten. And to help them, as we see it, is not to swell their ranks through leftist policies.

The most reliable way to help them is to embrace classical liberalism (again, Jefferson) and work to create a world where government is small (to keep us free), virtue is enshrined (to provide help for the underclass) and the left is kept as distant as possible to prevent decent people from being manipulated by those who crave power, the attainment of which will invariably lead to the very things you, my dear friends, and I both hate.

A final thought: The entire world flirted with authoritarian leftism for a time. As authoritarian powers rampaged across the world in the 1940s, Winston Churchill famously said that the lights were going out all across Europe, meaning that free societies were falling to authoritarian regimes. Nazi, communist, Japanese imperialist, leftist, fascist. The name matters little when repression and socialist policies are the end goal.

The end of that flirtation was the death of 100 million innocent civilians at the hands of communism.

BLM, antifa, Democratic Socialists of America, American communists, race rioters. Again, the name matters little when the end result is the overthrow of freedom and the lights going out. The freedom we enjoy today is a very rare exception to the vast majority of human history, steeped in grinding poverty, horrible disease, starvation and morbidity. And this exceptionally free state we live in is fragile.

Please, friends, leave the authoritarian left. Before history begins to repeat itself, this fragile respite from history breaks and the lights start going out again.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 29, 2020, 12:43:05 PM
You can't fix these folks anymore. They are toxic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 29, 2020, 01:07:36 PM
Josh Manning sounds like someone who used to be a dedicated leftist and now rails against the left because it "betrayed" him.  He's "found Jesus" and now despises everyone he once admired, because they don't seem to be trying to even find Jesus.   The most conservative actual conservative I know (not you, BB! :P) would vomit reading this tripe.  It's just more Trumpism, not conservatism at all.

The ironic thing, of course, is that Jesus is the most famous socialist of all time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 29, 2020, 01:32:45 PM
Personally I get suspicious about someone who proclaims that nothing is about race and then holds up "Jeffersonian liberalism" as their model for a good and just society.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 30, 2020, 12:49:22 AM
Shared by my other sis:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118510107_345870543485596_2564961355672654910_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rB-3aTS59QkAX-6ZQus&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=da476f62805f87454178a163f3c834f3&oe=5F6F1965)

:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 30, 2020, 12:55:18 AM
Sometimes it just looks like 2+2=Fish. I don't know what exactly this is even saying. What is about a virus? Why would the President need an executive order to arrest criminals? Why are marines and not the FBI handling child trafficking and arresting people?

And all this happened and the President never tweeted about it nor did his administration mention it because the media is silencing everybody...yet somehow the full story will pop up if I just enter it into google.

Is this some kind of weirdo mad libs or something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 30, 2020, 12:56:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2020, 12:49:22 AM
Shared by my other sis:


:bleeding:

I had to check.

Shockingly, it didn't happen.

https://www.thatsnonsense.com/were-2100-sex-trafficked-children-rescued-by-us-marines-fact-check/

QuoteThe claims are part of an entirely baseless and evidence lacking conspiracy theory that appears to be started (for the most part) in October 2019 (and again in March 2020) by a conspiracy theorist called Timothy Charles Holmseth.

Holmseth uploaded a video to YouTube in March 2020 titled "2100 CAGED KIDS IN TUNNELS RESCUED BY US MARINES IN CALIFORNIA – MOST BELIEVED TO BE ABDUCTED BY CPS" claiming to have uncovered the details of a US Marine-led operation conducted within the United States that resulted in 2,100 children being rescued from tunnels underneath California (Holmseth originally made these claims back in October 2019.) He asserts that most of the children had initially been abducted by CPS.

However, throughout the video, Holmseth provides no evidence of his claims. Instead, Holmseth claims to have an anonymous contact at the Pentagon who has given him this information, and that "the truthfulness of the report will be received and accepted by the viewer through the Holy Spirit".

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 30, 2020, 12:58:19 AM
Oh so the California department of Child Protective Services is keeping 2100 kids in tunnels below their state and the US Marines went in because the California CPS has a powerful military arm they needed to overcome eh? The FBI just lacks the firepower to take out those ninja social workers.

Having tunnels in a state known for earth quakes seems like a bad plan California CPS.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 30, 2020, 12:59:02 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 30, 2020, 12:56:37 AMI had to check.

Shockingly, it didn't happen.

Yeah, I always have a google when something like this comes up, even though I'm 95% sure of the result.

Of course, conspiracy believers will point out that it's just more proof that the news/truth is suppressed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 30, 2020, 12:59:42 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2020, 12:59:02 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 30, 2020, 12:56:37 AMI had to check.

Shockingly, it didn't happen.

Yeah, I always have a google when something like this comes up, even though I'm 95% sure of the result.

Of course, conspiracy believers will point out that it's just more proof to suppress the news.

But...they asked us to google it...and claimed that would prove it happened.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 30, 2020, 01:02:13 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2020, 12:59:42 AM
But...they asked us to google it...and claimed that would prove it happened.

Let's just say my oldest sister isn't the most critical of minds in my estimation. My middle sister is more critical about such news items, but she digs into the ideology of the left being a force of evil to be destroyed instead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 30, 2020, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2020, 12:59:42 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2020, 12:59:02 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 30, 2020, 12:56:37 AMI had to check.

Shockingly, it didn't happen.

Yeah, I always have a google when something like this comes up, even though I'm 95% sure of the result.

Of course, conspiracy believers will point out that it's just more proof to suppress the news.

But...they asked us to google it...and claimed that would prove it happened.

Easy. The information got buried in the meantime.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 30, 2020, 01:10:47 AM
I googled it, and all I got was 16 Marines arrested on suspicion of child trafficking, from 2019.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 30, 2020, 01:19:31 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 30, 2020, 01:10:47 AM
I googled it, and all I got was 16 Marines arrested on suspicion of child trafficking, from 2019.

:blink:

Yi wins.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 30, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
How deep is your state? I really mean to learn.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 30, 2020, 01:32:17 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 30, 2020, 01:19:31 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 30, 2020, 01:10:47 AM
I googled it, and all I got was 16 Marines arrested on suspicion of child trafficking, from 2019.

:blink:

Yi wins.

Not that shocking. It is less than 1 in 10,000.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 30, 2020, 01:20:46 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 30, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
How deep is your state? I really mean to learn.

Not as deep as your love.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 30, 2020, 06:07:24 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 30, 2020, 12:56:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2020, 12:49:22 AM
Shared by my other sis:


:bleeding:

I had to check.

Interestingly, in the news today:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/29/us/georgia-missing-children-us-marshals-trnd/index.html

Quote(CNN)Authorities have found 39 missing children in Georgia during a two-week effort to rescue endangered minors.
The US Marshals Service Missing Child Unit led the search, dubbed "Operation Not Forgotten." It collaborated with the agency's Southeast Regional Fugitive Task Force, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and state and local agencies.
The operation resulted in the rescue of 26 children and safe location of 13 others, US Marshals said in a news release on Thursday.
"The US Marshals Service is fully committed to assisting federal, state, and local agencies with locating and recovering endangered missing children, in addition to their primary fugitive apprehension mission," US Marshals Service Director Donald Washington said in a statement. "The message to missing children and their families is that we will never stop looking for you."

During the operation, authorities arrested nine people, cleared 26 warrants and filed additional charges for alleged crimes related to sex trafficking, parental kidnapping, registered sex offender violations, drugs and weapons possession and custodial interference, US Marshals said.
Some of the rescued children were believed to have been victims of child sex trafficking, child exploitation, sexual abuse, physical abuse and medical or mental health conditions. Others were missing and located at the request of law enforcement to make sure they weren't in danger.

The children ranged in age from 3 to 17, Washington said at a news conference. The rescues were "the most at risk and challenging recovery cases in the area," he said.
Every 40 seconds a child goes missing in the United States, accounting for 765,000 missing children a year, according to the FBI. Since US Marshals partnered with NCMEC in 2005, the agency has recovered more than 1,800 missing children.
[...]

Georgia, not California.  And US Marshals, not Marines.  Honest mistake... :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 31, 2020, 04:54:54 AM
QuoteJust seen this last Saturday by myself

(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118468086_308503427239267_8289086445386011938_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Tu2ELfWEGc8AX_uC7Ul&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=e626e919f3c57193428a7413fe7b5285&oe=5F741820)

He also claimed two million people were there...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 31, 2020, 02:44:02 PM
QuoteIf people would have said and done this while Obama was president they would have looked them up and charged with hate crimes and making terroristic threats.

QuoteJames Matthew Benson Jr.Auto Workers for Trump 2020
49m  ·
Apparently making bullying great again has always been the goal....
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CEkCSyhJEGi/?igshid=19tyakffmj9g7
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 31, 2020, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 31, 2020, 04:54:54 AM
QuoteJust seen this last Saturday by myself

[img]https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118468086_308503427239267_8289086445386011938_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Tu2ELfWEGc8AX_uC7Ul&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=e626e919f3c57193428a7413fe7b5285&oe=5F741820g]

He also claimed two million people were there...


What's this about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 26, 2020, 01:05:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 26, 2020, 10:50:32 AM
They should have gone with heart disease. It really does kill more people, and you could work angles like that it disproportionately kills men (so does covid, but whatever) that the media doesn't care about (maybe even that the media doesn't realize the huge cost of families without fathers!). The age of death is younger (I think, didn't check) and most are preventable, but we don't shut down the economy to save those lives (because heart disease can't be blamed on Trump before an election). Probably most agricultural companies lean republican, but maybe there is one that leans democrat that you can tie into some nefarious lobbying.

If heart disease was contagious the same people would be calling to close stuff down, and for the same reason.

We don't shut down the economy to save people from heart disease because enforcing social distance doesn't do anything to stop heart disease, unless you practice distancing from beef jerky  Lefty types do express interest in heart disease - i.e. promoting healthy diet and greater access and utilization of health care. As Valmy indicates, that is not of interest to the average Qanoner

What has been the cost to society of the covid 19 response? Not just the trillions directly spent by the government, or the trillions of value destroyed in the economy at large. What about the lost cultural value - theaters closed, galleries and museums shut down, no concerts, no sports, far inferior education, parks closed, people commanded to stay indoors...

The lives saved from enforced healthy eating, enforced exercise, healthcare investments, and medical research would dramatically exceed those saved from covid, at a fraction of that cost.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 31, 2020, 03:56:35 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 03:26:34 PM
What has been the cost to society of the covid 19 response? Not just the trillions directly spent by the government, or the trillions of value destroyed in the economy at large. What about the lost cultural value - theaters closed, galleries and museums shut down, no concerts, no sports, far inferior education, parks closed, people commanded to stay indoors...

The lives saved from enforced healthy eating, enforced exercise, healthcare investments, and medical research would dramatically exceed those saved from covid, at a fraction of that cost.

The cost of the Covid-19 response is dwarfed by the potential cost of ignoring Covid-19.  Trillions would be spent on treatment and the collection and disposal of the hundreds of thousands of bodies, trillions more in destroyed economic value as terrified people refused to leave their homes except for the most dire necessity, cultural value costs of entertainment venues galleries and museums, restaurants, bars, and cafes closing permanently (there wouldn't be anything temporary about those closures, as there would never be the prospect of reopening), and there would be no prospect of enforcing any eating dicta, forcing people to exercise, or investing in healthcare (because the healthcare system would be overwhelmed by covid 19 patients).  Some medical research might be carried out while governments could still borrow money, but the reduction in tax revenue would soon make that unaffordable.

No, the ostrich maneuver would only work with ostriches.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on August 31, 2020, 04:18:37 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 26, 2020, 01:05:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 26, 2020, 10:50:32 AM
They should have gone with heart disease. It really does kill more people, and you could work angles like that it disproportionately kills men (so does covid, but whatever) that the media doesn't care about (maybe even that the media doesn't realize the huge cost of families without fathers!). The age of death is younger (I think, didn't check) and most are preventable, but we don't shut down the economy to save those lives (because heart disease can't be blamed on Trump before an election). Probably most agricultural companies lean republican, but maybe there is one that leans democrat that you can tie into some nefarious lobbying.

If heart disease was contagious the same people would be calling to close stuff down, and for the same reason.

We don't shut down the economy to save people from heart disease because enforcing social distance doesn't do anything to stop heart disease, unless you practice distancing from beef jerky  Lefty types do express interest in heart disease - i.e. promoting healthy diet and greater access and utilization of health care. As Valmy indicates, that is not of interest to the average Qanoner

What has been the cost to society of the covid 19 response? Not just the trillions directly spent by the government, or the trillions of value destroyed in the economy at large. What about the lost cultural value - theaters closed, galleries and museums shut down, no concerts, no sports, far inferior education, parks closed, people commanded to stay indoors...

The lives saved from enforced healthy eating, enforced exercise, healthcare investments, and medical research would dramatically exceed those saved from covid, at a fraction of that cost.

You know it's only been six months, yes? :unsure: You're acting like we've been in a dearth of all of these things for years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 31, 2020, 04:26:34 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 26, 2020, 01:05:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 26, 2020, 10:50:32 AM
They should have gone with heart disease. It really does kill more people, and you could work angles like that it disproportionately kills men (so does covid, but whatever) that the media doesn't care about (maybe even that the media doesn't realize the huge cost of families without fathers!). The age of death is younger (I think, didn't check) and most are preventable, but we don't shut down the economy to save those lives (because heart disease can't be blamed on Trump before an election). Probably most agricultural companies lean republican, but maybe there is one that leans democrat that you can tie into some nefarious lobbying.

If heart disease was contagious the same people would be calling to close stuff down, and for the same reason.

We don't shut down the economy to save people from heart disease because enforcing social distance doesn't do anything to stop heart disease, unless you practice distancing from beef jerky  Lefty types do express interest in heart disease - i.e. promoting healthy diet and greater access and utilization of health care. As Valmy indicates, that is not of interest to the average Qanoner

What has been the cost to society of the covid 19 response? Not just the trillions directly spent by the government, or the trillions of value destroyed in the economy at large. What about the lost cultural value - theaters closed, galleries and museums shut down, no concerts, no sports, far inferior education, parks closed, people commanded to stay indoors...

The lives saved from enforced healthy eating, enforced exercise, healthcare investments, and medical research would dramatically exceed those saved from covid, at a fraction of that cost.

How much would that have happened anyways, even if we just ignored the coronavirus?

My kids school starts this week, in person, with several precautions.  Even with that we were told 1/3 of all kids won't be coming on the first day - their parents have pulled them.

Even if allowed, I wouldn't go to a sporting event right now.  I wouldn't go to a movie theatre.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 31, 2020, 04:26:34 PM
How much would that have happened anyways, even if we just ignored the coronavirus?

My kids school starts this week, in person, with several precautions.  Even with that we were told 1/3 of all kids won't be coming on the first day - their parents have pulled them.

Even if allowed, I wouldn't go to a sporting event right now.  I wouldn't go to a movie theatre.

You don't ignore coronavirus. You just don't force stuff to shut down and keep schools open. Some parents will keep their kids home, and of those some will effectively home school and have well educated children that are just going to miss out on a bit of socialization. Some won't, and those kids will be less educated.

I go to a gym everyday and one of the two is about as busy as it was before covid. The other is a lot less busy but it requires a mask and that kind of sucks while exercising. I have nothing against people that don't want to go to risk covid to go to the gym, but I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 31, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
... I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.


This kind of whiny shit is why we can't have nice things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 31, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
Autumn > Spring :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 07:24:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 31, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
... I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.


This kind of whiny shit is why we can't have nice things.

It was arbitrary and pointless. Explain to me what sense it made to put me under a stay at home order in the spring when cases were low and then have cinemas, gyms, tattoo parlors, bars, nightclubs, etc. all open when cases became much higher.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 07:26:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 31, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
Autumn > Spring :contract:

It wasn't a case of trading spring for autumn. It was a case of just throwing away spring.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 31, 2020, 09:12:21 PM
It was a case of government and society both not knowing how to handle the crisis. Live and learn(hopefully).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 31, 2020, 10:44:54 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 31, 2020, 09:12:21 PM
It was a case of government and society both not knowing how to handle the crisis. Live and learn(hopefully).

Well diseases are different so in the event we another of these horrible things we may end up fighting the last war.

Though I guess fighting the last war is still better than having little to no experience at all like this time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 01, 2020, 12:08:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/105699569_10218598848868045_1037664028558976401_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Jm6kTwFaKukAX8fzpiN&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ea242b094bdfe0256259376bbf4d3161&oe=5F725BE0)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118312774_10224220472119590_4682506364867936607_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SuzZO9Tz204AX-89X2a&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d4bd98ad2c56f04177bc6b3e13df2fac&oe=5F73D0B8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PJc8BVNy/teach.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on September 01, 2020, 12:10:12 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 07:26:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 31, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
Autumn > Spring :contract:

It wasn't a case of trading spring for autumn. It was a case of just throwing away spring.

Please tell us more, because we didn't quite get it the first 23581 times you brought it up beforehand.

Jesus fucking Christ, can you get over it?

N
O
B
O
D
Y

C
A
R
E
S
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 01, 2020, 12:14:37 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 07:24:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 31, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
... I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.


This kind of whiny shit is why we can't have nice things.

It was arbitrary and pointless. Explain to me what sense it made to put me under a stay at home order in the spring when cases were low and then have cinemas, gyms, tattoo parlors, bars, nightclubs, etc. all open when cases became much higher.
The first part made sense.  The second didn't.  That's Republicans for you :)

It made sense to squash the numbers of cases, before communal/widespread transmission became a thing.  It avoided overloading ERs with covid-19 cases and removing space for other cases.

Now, it's too late for anything.  Even on lockdown, you'd have to be there for 3-4 months, and that's economically unsustainable.

Just accept that your wise President and his immensely talented administration all aimed at "herd immunity" from the beginning, since it's the nice, polite version of "fuck you all, I ain't doing shit, you're on your own while I stay isolated with everyone getting tested every day around me and having a doctor 2 minutes away from any emergency and a military helicopter to bring in front of the waiting line should I require any medical assistance whatsoever".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 01, 2020, 12:17:22 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 07:26:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 31, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
Autumn > Spring :contract:

It wasn't a case of trading spring for autumn. It was a case of just throwing away spring.
Since you botched it up, you get the worst of both worlds.  Nations that did it almost right won't have a problem come fall and will keep activities going on, albeit at a reduced rate, but still much higher than societies (I mean you guys, in the South) that chose to hide your head in the sand pretending it was nothing.

US economy is down the drain, worst than Canada, and that's telling something with the incompetent Supreme Leader Canadians elected.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2020, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: viper37 on September 01, 2020, 12:17:22 AMworst than Canada, and that's telling something with the incompetent Supreme Leader Canadians elected.

Want to trade?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 06:45:44 AM
Quote from: viper37 on September 01, 2020, 12:17:22 AM

Since you botched it up, you get the worst of both worlds.  Nations that did it almost right won't have a problem come fall and will keep activities going on, albeit at a reduced rate, but still much higher than societies (I mean you guys, in the South) that chose to hide your head in the sand pretending it was nothing.


Huh? What activities do you think you will allow to go on that we won't have? At least in Georgia almost everything opened back up by the time we reached the first week in May.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 01, 2020, 06:53:51 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 07:24:41 PM
It was arbitrary and pointless. Explain to me what sense it made to put me under a stay at home order in the spring when cases were low and then have cinemas, gyms, tattoo parlors, bars, nightclubs, etc. all open when cases became much higher.

It was neither arbitrary nor pointless, as the successful use of the technique elsewhere has shown.  It was, however, a failure, because the US has too many whiny fucks who can't emphasize how bitter they are that they were under a stay at home order in the spring, and so ignored it while pressuring politicians to allow the disease to continue to spread so that the whiny fucks could get back to going to the gym and mountain climbing.  The whiny fucks even use the failure they caused as evidence that the countermeasures were doomed to fail
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 07:08:17 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2020, 06:53:51 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 07:24:41 PM
It was arbitrary and pointless. Explain to me what sense it made to put me under a stay at home order in the spring when cases were low and then have cinemas, gyms, tattoo parlors, bars, nightclubs, etc. all open when cases became much higher.

It was neither arbitrary nor pointless, as the successful use of the technique elsewhere has shown.  It was, however, a failure, because the US has too many whiny fucks who can't emphasize how bitter they are that they were under a stay at home order in the spring, and so ignored it while pressuring politicians to allow the disease to continue to spread so that the whiny fucks could get back to going to the gym and mountain climbing.  The whiny fucks even use the failure they caused as evidence that the countermeasures were doomed to fail

Do you realize that Georgia is still below the US average in deaths per capita?

But that aside, I was saying that this shit was unsustainable back in early April. Time has proven me right. We live in a democracy where politicians are accountable to the people. You may label the people "whiny fucks", but that doesn't change that a lot of Americans just aren't interested in complying with the extreme versions of this shit. Especially when it is unprecedented--we never went to these lengths with Spanish Flu for example, which was dramatically worse.

Have fun not watching Michigan football this year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 01, 2020, 07:24:58 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2020, 06:53:51 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 07:24:41 PM
It was arbitrary and pointless. Explain to me what sense it made to put me under a stay at home order in the spring when cases were low and then have cinemas, gyms, tattoo parlors, bars, nightclubs, etc. all open when cases became much higher.

It was neither arbitrary nor pointless, as the successful use of the technique elsewhere has shown.  It was, however, a failure, because the US has too many whiny fucks who can't emphasize how bitter they are that they were under a stay at home order in the spring, and so ignored it while pressuring politicians to allow the disease to continue to spread so that the whiny fucks could get back to going to the gym and mountain climbing.  The whiny fucks even use the failure they caused as evidence that the countermeasures were doomed to fail

May I respectfully ask you and others to not re-engage Dorsey for the 295th time since March running through the exact same arguments that really just boil down to him being a whiny bitch who can't accept that his Spring gut ruined? Thank you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 07:38:02 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 01, 2020, 07:24:58 AM
May I respectfully ask you and others to not re-engage Dorsey for the 295th time since March running through the exact same arguments that really just boil down to him being a whiny bitch who can't accept that his Spring gut ruined? Thank you.

I'm certainly not going to stop so long as you fuckers hang with the same logic that we should have been/should be stricter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 01, 2020, 07:59:23 AM
Georgia should be much strictier right now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 09:36:15 AM
There's no need for any lock down measures as long as your deaths per capita are under the threshold. Once you exceed that threshold, that's when lockdown is appropriate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 01, 2020, 09:39:59 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 09:36:15 AM
There's no need for any lock down measures as long as your deaths per capita are under the threshold. Once you exceed that threshold, that's when lockdown is appropriate.

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/26uf2JHNV0Tq3ugkE/giphy.gif)

The UK tried that initially, a sort of just-in-time delivery system for overload-avoidance. Didn't work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 09:48:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 01, 2020, 09:39:59 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 09:36:15 AM
There's no need for any lock down measures as long as your deaths per capita are under the threshold. Once you exceed that threshold, that's when lockdown is appropriate.

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/26uf2JHNV0Tq3ugkE/giphy.gif)

The UK tried that initially, a sort of just-in-time delivery system for overload-avoidance. Didn't work.

Their deaths per capita are lower than Georgia, so they're doing a great job and should lift all restrictions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 01, 2020, 09:57:12 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 31, 2020, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 31, 2020, 04:54:54 AM
QuoteJust seen this last Saturday by myself

[img]https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118468086_308503427239267_8289086445386011938_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Tu2ELfWEGc8AX_uC7Ul&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=e626e919f3c57193428a7413fe7b5285&oe=5F741820g]

He also claimed two million people were there...



Quote
What's this about?

Anti-mask demonstrations, in Berlin for instance. The mainstream media allegedly focus on the extreme right.
It's true they could speak a bit more about the extreme left loonies there, though that's not what he meant.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 10:57:52 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 09:48:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 01, 2020, 09:39:59 AM

The UK tried that initially, a sort of just-in-time delivery system for overload-avoidance. Didn't work.

Their deaths per capita are lower than Georgia, so they're doing a great job and should lift all restrictions.

Factually, however, their deaths per capita are higher than Georgia. Harassing the bird watchers doesn't seem to have saved the UK.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 11:11:11 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 10:57:52 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 09:48:11 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 01, 2020, 09:39:59 AM

The UK tried that initially, a sort of just-in-time delivery system for overload-avoidance. Didn't work.

Their deaths per capita are lower than Georgia, so they're doing a great job and should lift all restrictions.

Factually, however, their deaths per capita are higher than Georgia. Harassing the bird watchers doesn't seem to have saved the UK.  :(

You're right. Further restrictions are meaningless, so they should all be lifted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 01, 2020, 11:15:05 AM
"Cowards die many times before their deaths, the valiant taste of death just once." - Billy Shakespeare, using deaths per capita figures to argue to lift the lockdown.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 11:18:37 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 01, 2020, 11:15:05 AM
"Cowards die many times before their deaths, the valiant taste of death just once." - Billy Shakespeare, using deaths per capita figures to argue to lift the lockdown.
:bleeding: I can tell Shakespeare wasn't a life actuary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 11:20:28 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
...but I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.

Don't sell yourself short.  You have been telling us how bitter you are about good public policy since the beginning of the pandemic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:20:45 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 11:11:11 AM
You're right.

Thank you! I'm glad someone finally realized this!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 11:20:28 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
...but I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.

Don't sell yourself short.  You have been telling us how bitter you are about good public policy since the beginning of the pandemic.

You think the US state of Georgia has had good public policy?

Fascinating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 11:22:22 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 11:20:28 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
...but I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.

Don't sell yourself short.  You have been telling us how bitter you are about good public policy since the beginning of the pandemic.

You think the US state of Georgia has had good public policy?

Fascinating.

Not sure how you inferred that from my post.  But that the fact you did is equally fascinating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 11:20:28 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
...but I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.

Don't sell yourself short.  You have been telling us how bitter you are about good public policy since the beginning of the pandemic.

You think the US state of Georgia has had good public policy?

Fascinating.

Their deaths per capita have remained consistently at the threshold deaths per capita, so they must be doing something right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:27:10 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 11:22:22 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 11:20:28 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
...but I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.

Don't sell yourself short.  You have been telling us how bitter you are about good public policy since the beginning of the pandemic.

You think the US state of Georgia has had good public policy?

Fascinating.

Not sure how you inferred that from my post.  But that the fact you did is equally fascinating.

You said I've been bitter about good public policy. I've only lived in Georgia during this pandemic. I'm certainly not bitter about what is happening elsewhere. The only logical conclusion is that you think Georgia had good public policy, at least in part.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
Their deaths per capita have remained consistently at the threshold deaths per capita, so they must be doing something right.

What are acceptable losses?

To date, there is not a nation on earth that has a per capita death rate of even 0.1% of the population. If you want to shut down schools for a year, a previous study indicated that a year of education results in a 6 month change in a child's life expectancy. For kids that don't go to school, that 6 months is 0.6% of a life with a 80 year life expectancy. If this ruined two months of my life, you may say who cares, but that is 0.4% of my remaining life (assuming a remaining life expectancy of 40 years).

Michigan won't play football this fall. I don't know when the last time it took a fall off, but it certainly played during 1918 with World War I and the Spanish Flu - a far worse pandemic that actually had college age students in the at risk group for the disease.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
Their deaths per capita have remained consistently at the threshold deaths per capita, so they must be doing something right.

What are acceptable losses?

To date, there is not a nation on earth that has a per capita death rate of even 0.1% of the population. If you want to shut down schools for a year, a previous study indicated that a year of education results in a 6 month change in a child's life expectancy. For kids that don't go to school, that 6 months is 0.6% of a life with a 80 year life expectancy. If this ruined two months of my life, you may say who cares, but that is 0.4% of my remaining life (assuming a remaining life expectancy of 40 years).

Michigan won't play football this fall. I don't know when the last time it took a fall off, but it certainly played during 1918 with World War I and the Spanish Flu - a far worse pandemic that actually had college age students in the at risk group for the disease.
Has there been a single nation where both the government and the people completely ignored the outbreak and let it happen unabated?  You can't really claim that Russian Roulette is not that dangerous just because most people have enough sense to not play it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 01, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
The per capita death toll from terrorism is miniscule so I guess we can disband DHS now?

So a couple skyscrapers get blown up from time to time, just shrug it off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 01, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
The per capita death toll from terrorism is miniscule so I guess we can disband DHS now?

So a couple skyscrapers get blown up from time to time, just shrug it off.
You can make an argument that the extent of our response to terrorism is indeed vastly counter-productive, and furthers the aims of terrorism rather than counter it.  We were caught with our pants down on 9/11, for whatever reason; any reasonable response to the lessons learned would've drastically reduced the chance of something like this happening again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 12:59:28 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:27:10 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 11:22:22 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 11:20:28 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 31, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
...but I really can't emphasize how bitter I am that I was under a stay at home order in the spring.

Don't sell yourself short.  You have been telling us how bitter you are about good public policy since the beginning of the pandemic.

You think the US state of Georgia has had good public policy?

Fascinating.

Not sure how you inferred that from my post.  But that the fact you did is equally fascinating.

You said I've been bitter about good public policy. I've only lived in Georgia during this pandemic. I'm certainly not bitter about what is happening elsewhere. The only logical conclusion is that you think Georgia had good public policy, at least in part.

The good part of the policy was eventually locking down.  You have been critical of that for some time.  But I appreciate your mental gymnastics. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 01:00:17 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
Their deaths per capita have remained consistently at the threshold deaths per capita, so they must be doing something right.

What are acceptable losses?

To date, there is not a nation on earth that has a per capita death rate of even 0.1% of the population. If you want to shut down schools for a year, a previous study indicated that a year of education results in a 6 month change in a child's life expectancy. For kids that don't go to school, that 6 months is 0.6% of a life with a 80 year life expectancy. If this ruined two months of my life, you may say who cares, but that is 0.4% of my remaining life (assuming a remaining life expectancy of 40 years).

Michigan won't play football this fall. I don't know when the last time it took a fall off, but it certainly played during 1918 with World War I and the Spanish Flu - a far worse pandemic that actually had college age students in the at risk group for the disease.
Has there been a single nation where both the government and the people completely ignored the outbreak and let it happen unabated?  You can't really claim that Russian Roulette is not that dangerous just because most people have enough sense to not play it.

Sweden?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 01, 2020, 01:04:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 01:00:17 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 01, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
Their deaths per capita have remained consistently at the threshold deaths per capita, so they must be doing something right.

What are acceptable losses?

To date, there is not a nation on earth that has a per capita death rate of even 0.1% of the population. If you want to shut down schools for a year, a previous study indicated that a year of education results in a 6 month change in a child's life expectancy. For kids that don't go to school, that 6 months is 0.6% of a life with a 80 year life expectancy. If this ruined two months of my life, you may say who cares, but that is 0.4% of my remaining life (assuming a remaining life expectancy of 40 years).

Michigan won't play football this fall. I don't know when the last time it took a fall off, but it certainly played during 1918 with World War I and the Spanish Flu - a far worse pandemic that actually had college age students in the at risk group for the disease.
Has there been a single nation where both the government and the people completely ignored the outbreak and let it happen unabated?  You can't really claim that Russian Roulette is not that dangerous just because most people have enough sense to not play it.

Sweden?

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 01, 2020, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 01, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
The per capita death toll from terrorism is miniscule so I guess we can disband DHS now?

Yes, please.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 01, 2020, 01:18:16 PM
That way they won't botch another home delivery. :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 01, 2020, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 01, 2020, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 01, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
The per capita death toll from terrorism is miniscule so I guess we can disband DHS now?

Yes, please.

I was gonna say...can we please just do that anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on September 01, 2020, 01:59:13 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 01, 2020, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 01, 2020, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 01, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
The per capita death toll from terrorism is miniscule so I guess we can disband DHS now?

Yes, please.

I was gonna say...can we please just do that anyway.

:yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 12:14:48 PM

Has there been a single nation where both the government and the people completely ignored the outbreak and let it happen unabated?  You can't really claim that Russian Roulette is not that dangerous just because most people have enough sense to not play it.

Right, but I also have never been an advocate of no response. Mask mandates? Go for it. Want to close gyms, dine in restaurants, night clubs, and bars? I was fine with that too (though at this point I'm skeptical of closing stuff down out of fear it is a step toward reimposing a lockdown, and these have reopened without overwhelming the medical system). I think schools for at risk students were too important to ever completely close except in areas that were in danger of overwhelming the medical system, there was never a reason to shut down most parks (especially in rural areas), and forcing people to stay at home without essential reasons to leave was beyond the pale (again outside of areas with a medical system that was in danger of being overwhelmed).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 02:41:09 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 12:14:48 PM

Has there been a single nation where both the government and the people completely ignored the outbreak and let it happen unabated?  You can't really claim that Russian Roulette is not that dangerous just because most people have enough sense to not play it.

Right, but I also have never been an advocate of no response. Mask mandates? Go for it. Want to close gyms, dine in restaurants, night clubs, and bars? I was fine with that too (though at this point I'm skeptical of closing stuff down out of fear it is a step toward reimposing a lockdown, and these have reopened without overwhelming the medical system). I think schools for at risk students were too important to ever completely close except in areas that were in danger of overwhelming the medical system, there was never a reason to shut down most parks (especially in rural areas), and forcing people to stay at home without essential reasons to leave was beyond the pale (again outside of areas with a medical system that was in danger of being overwhelmed).
What I'm getting at is that you can't measure the deadliness of the virus by the actual death statistics, since those statistics are affected by government and personal choices meant to limit deaths.  It's like going "why do we need so much airline safety, just one person died in the last 10 years on US carrier flights".  It may be true that one person died in the last 10 years, but it probably had something to do with all that safety in the first place.  That's not to say that some safety measures are not cost-ineffective or even counter-productive, it's just that making a valid argument about cost/safety tradeoff is a lot trickier than looking at the number of people killed despite the safety measures.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 02:45:45 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 01, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
The per capita death toll from terrorism is miniscule so I guess we can disband DHS now?

So a couple skyscrapers get blown up from time to time, just shrug it off.

Uh dude, I've thought the anti terrorism stuff was overblown for a long long time. What you people don't seem to see is that 9/11 and this are just two sides of the same coin.

Both were/are real and serious problems, that caused real loss, that came along in the 24/7 news cycle and internet age. Both have gotten massive media coverage, inducing a panic that created a massively disproportionate response. It is phenomenally difficult to push back against the scope of the response in either case: "Haven't you seen the twin towers falling?" "180k americans are dead, what is your problem" which isn't helped by the presence of 9/11 truthers or the people who argue it isn't worse than the flu/a hoax.

I think I'm the flip side of a person on a right leaning internet forum around 2003 who is arguing that the response to 9/11 is going way too far.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 01, 2020, 02:57:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 02:41:09 PM
What I'm getting at is that you can't measure the deadliness of the virus by the actual death statistics, since those statistics are affected by government and personal choices meant to limit deaths.  It's like going "why do we need so much airline safety, just one person died in the last 10 years on US carrier flights".  It may be true that one person died in the last 10 years, but it probably had something to do with all that safety in the first place.  That's not to say that some safety measures are not cost-ineffective or even counter-productive, it's just that making a valid argument about cost/safety tradeoff is a lot trickier than looking at the number of people killed despite the safety measures.

First, I think we are only talking about government choices, because no one is proposing to force people to go to restaurants.

Second, no one is proposing a zero government response. My benchmark was the very worst situation in any country in the world. To use your plane analogy, there are an almost infinite number of regulations and the cost benefit of any one of them is very difficult to measure. But if you develop a rational set of rules, that are each within the parameters of other developed countries, and assume an outcome as bad as the worst measured third world country -- if the cost/benefit is still favorable compared to the current state, I think that is informative (at least for an internet forum).

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on September 01, 2020, 03:29:35 PM
Come on people, this was a sweet threat in which Syt posted stories and pictures from his family in the States.  Don't turn it into a flame war of half-baked assumptions and name calling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 01, 2020, 03:35:24 PM
Or menace?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 01, 2020, 08:29:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 01:00:17 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 12:14:48 PM
Has there been a single nation where both the government and the people completely ignored the outbreak and let it happen unabated?  You can't really claim that Russian Roulette is not that dangerous just because most people have enough sense to not play it.

Sweden?

Sweden implemented a number of measures, including closing high schools and universities, restricting seating at restaurants, banning large gatherings, etc.  It never went into full lockdown, but requested (and seems to have gotten) cooperation from the populace in reducing hazardous activities.  If sweden had more Dorseys and fewer Brains, it would have had a higher death toll (and its death toll per capita is about that of the US right now, but dropping more rapidly than the US).  Georgia is surging up the ranks, though (now #1 in the US in cases per capita on a daily basis), while Sweden is falling (only 1/3 as many cases per million people as triumphant Georgia).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 08:31:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2020, 08:29:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2020, 01:00:17 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 01, 2020, 12:14:48 PM
Has there been a single nation where both the government and the people completely ignored the outbreak and let it happen unabated?  You can't really claim that Russian Roulette is not that dangerous just because most people have enough sense to not play it.

Sweden?

Sweden implemented a number of measures, including closing high schools and universities, restricting seating at restaurants, banning large gatherings, etc.  It never went into full lockdown, but requested (and seems to have gotten) cooperation from the populace in reducing hazardous activities.  If sweden had more Dorseys and fewer Brains, it would have had a higher death toll (and its death toll per capita is about that of the US right now, but dropping more rapidly than the US).  Georgia is surging up the ranks, though (now #1 in the US in cases per capita on a daily basis), while Sweden is falling (only 1/3 as many cases per million people as triumphant Georgia).

Hard to control for the Dorsey effect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 02, 2020, 06:54:31 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 01, 2020, 08:29:40 PM
Georgia is surging up the ranks, though (now #1 in the US in cases per capita on a daily basis), while Sweden is falling (only 1/3 as many cases per million people as triumphant Georgia).

I really have no idea what you are talking about. From what I can see there are several states that are ahead of Georgia on both a per capita and total case count level.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 02, 2020, 03:00:23 PM
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?utm_source=morning_brew#cases

Only states ahead of Georgia for cases in the last 7 days are California, Florida, and Texas, all which much higher populations.

In death rates per capita among US states, Georgia now ranks 15 and Florida 17. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 02, 2020, 03:46:35 PM
Holy crap, almost 0.2% of New Jersey population was killed by Covid?  :blink:  That's almost NYC numbers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 02, 2020, 03:51:08 PM
That's where the nursing homes are located.  Huge scandal there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 02, 2020, 04:42:30 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 02, 2020, 03:00:23 PM
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?utm_source=morning_brew#cases

Only states ahead of Georgia for cases in the last 7 days are California, Florida, and Texas, all which much higher populations.

In death rates per capita among US states, Georgia now ranks 15 and Florida 17.

The united states passed Sweden in deaths per capita (Georgia and Florida remain behind Sweden, however, as they are better than the US average). The United States is now ahead of most countries (among developed countries, still behind Belgium, Spain, Italy, and the UK).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 02, 2020, 04:53:46 PM
One related thing that just dawned on me:  when case counts where hitting record peaks, that was all over my Google News feed.  Now I checked the stats, which I haven't checked for a couple of weeks due to not having Covid on my radar, and it turns out that statistics are going down significantly.  Nothing on Google News feed about that, I wouldn't know if I didn't check. 

I don't think it's a conspiracy, I just think it's a testament as to how sensationalism-driven the media is by its nature, and how it can lead to biased perceptions.  When things go bad, the news stories don't hesitate to wind up people's anxieties.  When things go better, yawn.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on September 02, 2020, 05:17:27 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 02, 2020, 04:42:30 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 02, 2020, 03:00:23 PM
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?utm_source=morning_brew#cases

Only states ahead of Georgia for cases in the last 7 days are California, Florida, and Texas, all which much higher populations.

In death rates per capita among US states, Georgia now ranks 15 and Florida 17.

The united states passed Sweden in deaths per capita (Georgia and Florida remain behind Sweden, however, as they are better than the US average). The United States is now ahead of most countries (among developed countries, still behind Belgium, Spain, Italy, and the UK).

USA!! USA!! #1
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 03, 2020, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 02, 2020, 03:00:23 PM
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?utm_source=morning_brew#cases

Only states ahead of Georgia for cases in the last 7 days are California, Florida, and Texas, all which much higher populations.

In death rates per capita among US states, Georgia now ranks 15 and Florida 17.

I was thinking about this last night, and I think the ultimate reality is that, adjectives aside, the country has more or less decided that Georgia took the right approach.

Compare Georgia to New Jersey. Georgia was irresponsible of course and started reopening things like gyms in April. New Jersey took things much more seriously: with people arrested for trying to reopen their gym (see Atilis Gym).

The story goes that in the last week Georgia had 138 new cases per 100k residents while New Jersey had 25.

But New Jersey reopened its gyms on September 1. Georgia did so on April 24. Obviously the only public policy issue is not gym reopenings, but to the extent that is a signal for everything else, New Jersey is basically going to the Georgia approach of a few months ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 03, 2020, 08:50:03 AM
 :huh: Everyone will be reopening gyms at some point, so will everyone be adopting a Georgia strategy at some point? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 03, 2020, 09:09:43 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 03, 2020, 08:50:03 AM
:huh: Everyone will be reopening gyms at some point, so will everyone be adopting a Georgia strategy at some point? :unsure:

If it is the right time to open gyms now, wasn't it the right time in April?

No one is close to having their medical system overwhelmed--I think that was the case in late April though it might have been May in parts of Northern NJ. We still don't have a vaccine or treatment approaching a cure.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 03, 2020, 09:23:48 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 03, 2020, 09:09:43 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 03, 2020, 08:50:03 AM
:huh: Everyone will be reopening gyms at some point, so will everyone be adopting a Georgia strategy at some point? :unsure:

If it is the right time to open gyms now, wasn't it the right time in April?

No one is close to having their medical system overwhelmed--I think that was the case in late April though it might have been May in parts of Northern NJ. We still don't have a vaccine or treatment approaching a cure.
It's not just about the time, and it's also about how.  In New Jersey in September, people generally know what they're dealing with, so even on their own they do steps to reduce risks.  In Georgia in April, people pretended Covid didn't apply to them. 

Secondly, not all openings are the same.  In New Jersey, there are very strict restrictions on gyms that do open, such as occupancy limits.  Thirdly, New Jersey gym reopenings are part of a dynamic plan, which could change in response to how reopenings work out.  If gyms turn out to be effective superspreaders even despite the precautions, or there is a widespread defiance of the restrictions, they'll be closing back down (just like indoor dining closed the first time after widespread violations).  None of this seems to resemble how Georgia approached this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 03, 2020, 09:44:46 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 03, 2020, 09:23:48 AM

It's not just about the time, and it's also about how.  In New Jersey in September, people generally know what they're dealing with, so even on their own they do steps to reduce risks.  In Georgia in April, people pretended Covid didn't apply to them.

In Georgia, in both April and September, there are people that think the whole thing is a hoax. I bet that is true in New Jersey too. If you look at Languish in March and April, there was no shortage of panic. If anything the concern has dissipated, but this is really hard to quantify.

QuoteSecondly, not all openings are the same.  In New Jersey, there are very strict restrictions on gyms that do open, such as occupancy limits.  Thirdly, New Jersey gym reopenings are part of a dynamic plan, which could change in response to how reopenings work out.  If gyms turn out to be effective superspreaders even despite the precautions, or there is a widespread defiance of the restrictions, they'll be closing back down (just like indoor dining closed the first time after widespread violations).  None of this seems to resemble how Georgia approached this.

There were restrictions in Georgia too--I was trying to post the rules but it was too much effort to find what they were in the first phase. Georgia of course has the capacity to close stuff down too, if things go bad.

It is fine that New Jersey will close gyms down again if they turn out to be effective superspreaders, but New Jersey isn't inventing the wheel here. Gyms have globally been open for many months. The data on the risks in gyms and restaurants is out there already.

I see differences in the adjectives communicating the policies, but the on the ground reality looks similar. Whether you live in New Jersey or Georgia, today you can visit a gym, and when you go, you probably need to wear a mask, equipment is spaced for social distancing, and there are enhanced cleaning procedures.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 03, 2020, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 02, 2020, 04:53:46 PM
I don't think it's a conspiracy, I just think it's a testament as to how sensationalism-driven the media is by its nature, and how it can lead to biased perceptions.  When things go bad, the news stories don't hesitate to wind up people's anxieties.  When things go better, yawn.
the internet as reinforced that.  You don't even need an editor to decide if a news is worthy of space or not, people clicking on the links will make the story stay up or disapear forever in the darkness...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 04, 2020, 12:37:37 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/7ZRWsmmH/rac.jpg)


Remember where you were in the Great Facebook War of 2020. I like the framing of "Anti-Trump" vs. "Patriots"

(https://i.postimg.cc/zfRP9Kcn/FBW.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 04, 2020, 02:23:10 AM
Kamala Harris isn't black now?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 04, 2020, 03:13:36 AM

True. That's an odd one. I thought the racists were the biggest proponents of the one drop rule?

Quote from: Syt on September 04, 2020, 12:37:37 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/7ZRWsmmH/rac.jpg)


Remember where you were in the Great Facebook War of 2020. I like the framing of "Anti-Trump" vs. "Patriots"

(https://i.posti/zfRP9Kcn/FBW.jpg)
The brexiters did the same nonsense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on September 04, 2020, 03:41:10 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 04, 2020, 02:23:10 AM
Kamala Harris isn't black now?  :huh:
havent you been paying attention. Her dad is from islands so he isn't African-American. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2020, 12:10:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118787748_658239431773536_6361102079798819628_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=dikb_3-PBXwAX8dow-J&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1e2c97be1e2622b536e163585bc49555&oe=5F7E0CF8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xjJ6XBg2/ds.jpg)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118893344_10223397266949254_8967329132032935700_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=6LgdjIZf9mUAX8Use6l&_nc_oc=AQn648QeyswTqVmHMBDNGGLo5Ld8FORlVcCtHhS_FI5mL-ycPn0n8lc1GVHm6WJA2D0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e95ccc8ff9bc9eeaf8fdf446d58e94ce&oe=5F7B8AB0)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118878943_3343117775734027_3859105459802269119_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SN6dT5UTP2AAX89BQK3&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=afe8ecc7d7d8e86bbff4c5381e607c45&oe=5F7B65B1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 08, 2020, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 04, 2020, 12:37:37 AM
I like the framing of "Anti-Trump" vs. "Patriots"

The Patriots are notorious cheaters . . .
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 09, 2020, 09:49:40 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118988456_10217784038048797_5969437715805922179_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=05vEI4dyreUAX8W3LPO&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9a39ea4d1aa71118d575985f5739af14&oe=5F7CA3F0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 09, 2020, 09:50:28 AM
P.S.: This was the original:

(https://i.imgur.com/hoMCml6.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on September 09, 2020, 10:13:24 AM
Nice of them to put so many extra labels on to make it as easy as possible to understand their point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 09, 2020, 10:15:52 AM
Well if they didn't label that leg as Soros I would never have guess jews were behind it all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 10, 2020, 12:42:32 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/NMX6HbDf/mhm.jpg)

Curse the media for not giving nationwide coverage to EVERY homicide in the US that involves members of different races!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2020, 12:54:36 AM
I am just going to go out on a limb and suggest that media did cover that incident. It just wasn't national news.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 10, 2020, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2020, 12:54:36 AM
I am just going to go out on a limb and suggest that media did cover that incident. It just wasn't national news.

Here's the full article for a real treat:

https://theredelephants.com/yet-another-brutal-interracial-murder-of-white-teen-ignored-by-the-national-media/?fbclid=IwAR3ntz-dp06UQIEUgE9oENU3uy3PeE7gM3Z7xkrLIXDu-oRaW6YehFeEfE8

QuoteYet Another Brutal Murder of White Teen Ignored by the National Media Because the Perpetrators Were Black

Adding on to the hundreds of thousands of black-on-white attacks that occur each year, the tragic story of Veronica Lee Baker, who was recently murdered by black teens and left in her car to die, is one of the latest ignored by national media outlets. As with the story of 5 year-old Cannon Hinnant, white Americans are quickly beginning to understand how the media operates – that if these stories were in the reverse, every national outlet would be running these stories non-stop, and mass destruction of major cities would surely follow.

Four teens, including a juvenile, have been arrested and charged in connection with the murder of a 17-year-old girl who was found dead in a car outside a Raleigh Bojangle's last weekend.

Police said Tuesday night that three teens, Keyshara Michelle Deans, 19, Nezyiha Zamir Collins, 19, and Tyreek Qumay Rodgers, 18, were all arrested and charged with accessory after the fact to murder.

"She didn't deserve to get shot and killed and left in a parking lot," Jim Baker, Veronica's father, told local station WRAL.

Hundreds of thousands of other stories just like Cannon Hinnant's and Veronica Lee Baker's are brushed under the rug daily by the National media.  Interracial murders typically are perpetrated by Black Americans, despite them making up only a sliver of the American population, but if you are getting your news from national media outlets, you likely are currently under the assumptions that the reverse is true.

Authorities were still looking for 17-year-old Devin Cordell Jones. A juvenile petition and secure custody order for the murder of Veronica Lee Baker were being sought for Jones. On Wednesday morning, the teen was taken into custody and charged with Baker's murder.

Deans, Collins, and Rodgers were all taken to the Wake County Detention Center. Collins and Rodgers are being held on $500,000 secured bonds each. According to warrants, Collins and Rodgers left North Carolina with Jones in an attempt to evade capture.

Deans is being held on a $1,015,000 secured bond for multiple charges, some of which date back to June and don't appear to be related to Baker's murder, according to arrest records. Deans' arrest warrant says that she drove Jones from the scene of the murder in order for him to evade capture.

During the three older suspects' first appearances in court via video, the judge granted a prosecutor's request for no-contact orders between all of the defendants.

An August 4 arrest warrant accuses Deans of conspiring with Jones and another juvenile to commit financial card fraud.

Deans asked the judge to reduce her bail so she could go home and be with her son. The prosecution argued it was too early to request a reduction, and the judge left the bail amount unchanged.

Baker was set to start online sociology classes at Wake Technical Community College, said her father, Jim Baker, in an interview with The N&O. She graduated from Garner Magnet High School in the spring. She loved to camp and was hoping to go into social work, Jim Baker said.

Baker and Veronica's mother, Laura, went to bed at around 9:30 p.m. Saturday, he said. Soon after that, the doorbell rang and the dogs started barking.

Baker opened the door, and a man in a suit who identified himself as a Raleigh homicide detective asked if Laura Baker was home.

He said a body had been found in a car registered to Laura Baker.

"Please not Veronica," Baker recalled his wife saying.

The Nationalist Review reports, "NBC and ABC, despite both having regional affiliates covering this story, have not issued a report on their national websites. Do you see the pattern developing? A similar chain of events followed the execution of 5-year-old Cannon Hinnant, whose story was only covered by CNN after the hashtag "Say His Name" trended nationwide for a full day. Hinnant's murder also took place in North Carolina."

Black on White Murders and Attacks are Common, but the Reverse Basically Never Happens

Just a few months ago, basketball star Lebron James tweeted that "we are literally being hunted, we can't even go for a jog," in regards to black people being 'hunted' by white people in America.  As most of us know this is far from the truth, and the reverse of this tweet is a better argument.

Data shows white Americans are far more often victims of interracial crime than black Americans. In 2018, The Bureau of Justice Statistics released their survey of criminal victimization, breaking down 593,598 interracial violence between blacks and whites. Blacks committed 537,204 of those interracial felonies, or 90 percent, and whites committed 56,394 of them, or less than 10 percent.

Furthermore, despite making up only 13.4% of the American population, black Americans commit more than double the amount of interracial homicides on white Americans, who make up 60.4% of the American population.

(https://theredelephants.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/EYem4LvU4AA2qmF.jpg)

(https://theredelephants.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/IMG_0122.jpg)

The national media also often fails to mention that black Americans are vastly overrepresented among perpetrators of hate crimes—by 50 percent—according to recent Justice Department data from 2017; whites are underrepresented by 24 percent. It also doesn't appear to matter which year we look at in regards to hate crimes, as the below results are fairly consistent.

Additionally, black Americans commit hate crimes at a rate that is three times higher than whites per 100,000 according to FBI crime data from 2016 and 2017. All of this data available, and yet the numerous congressional hearings on "White Nationalism" may have made you believe otherwise.

Black Americans are also more than twice as likely to be in a hate group than white Americans, according to the SPLC's own data.

(https://theredelephants.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Hate-Crimes-Per-100000-copy.png)

(https://theredelephants.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Likelihood-of-being-in-a-hate-group-by-race-SPLC-data-.png)

Another example would be Emmanuel Aranda, who was arrested after he threw a five-year-old white child over a balcony in at the mall of America in Minnesota.  This story only received around 2% of national coverage that the Nia Wilson murder received, and if you Google search the name 'Emmanuel Aranda,' effectively only local news reports will be returned.

If anyone race in America can claim that they are being 'hunted,' it's white Americans based on the data.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 10, 2020, 01:01:50 AM
The bias rating of that website: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-red-elephants/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2020, 01:08:21 AM
They sure do a great job of setting up strawmen and comparing apples to oranges.

I do like how they set up a scare headline that the media is covering up murder then they themselves say that the media is covering it, just not to the degree they would like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 10, 2020, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2020, 01:08:21 AM
They sure do a great job of setting up strawmen and comparing apples to oranges.

But ... they have charts! :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on September 10, 2020, 11:01:42 AM
"Actually, it's white people who are the REAL victims of racism" is always a strong tell.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 10, 2020, 11:16:49 AM
Sometimes these posts Syt makes kind of reminds me of some of the slogans from this particular incident:

(https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/uploads/monthly_2020_09/563131092_aggyklanrallyrobes.jpeg.a959312b1acee14f5872e503312fe7f0.jpeg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2020, 01:45:40 PM
This one is not from the Brown Eye meme reposter, so better as also a bit more imaginative with a pun:

(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/119517262_148959566900549_3352514366913877680_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=3zLe7TrCc_4AX9HA17M&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=c6fa43a1c5a0c8511eabaac8606ea1d1&oe=5F8521F2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2020, 01:47:32 PM
I am sure you all missed the Brown Eye meme recycler, so here is another of his posts, non Brown eye in origin :

QuoteInteresting, not only the virus, but also fire became intelligent in 2020, they know where they have to burn 😉 .. no fires in Mexico and Canada. So many coincidences this year 🤘

#DeepState

(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/119512417_10220507741937890_5934600487098943533_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=XNB28e5F5SIAX_AqxcN&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=4fffd263da83f4e17e2f1b2ab8e5a1cc&oe=5F878823)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 15, 2020, 01:52:57 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2020, 01:47:32 PM
I am sure you all missed the Brown Eye meme recycler, so here is another of his posts, non Brown eye in origin :

QuoteInteresting, not only the virus, but also fire became intelligent in 2020, they know where they have to burn 😉 .. no fires in Mexico and Canada. So many coincidences this year 🤘

#DeepState


https://wildfire.alberta.ca/wildfire-status/status-map.aspx
Five fires in Alberta right now (thankfully all controlled)

https://governmentofbc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f0ac328d88c74d07aa2ee385abe2a41b
Whole bunch in BC - 2 not under control

https://yukon.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=b15654d170224c19aa1b8e29a6c57dc3
Whole bunch in Yukon
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 15, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
A memester got his facts wrong? Excuse me while I retrieve my jaw from the floor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2020, 02:12:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 15, 2020, 01:52:57 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2020, 01:47:32 PM
I am sure you all missed the Brown Eye meme recycler, so here is another of his posts, non Brown eye in origin :

QuoteInteresting, not only the virus, but also fire became intelligent in 2020, they know where they have to burn 😉 .. no fires in Mexico and Canada. So many coincidences this year 🤘

#DeepState


https://wildfire.alberta.ca/wildfire-status/status-map.aspx
Five fires in Alberta right now (thankfully all controlled)

https://governmentofbc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f0ac328d88c74d07aa2ee385abe2a41b
Whole bunch in BC - 2 not under control

https://yukon.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=b15654d170224c19aa1b8e29a6c57dc3
Whole bunch in Yukon

I suspected as much, but I am afraid your data won't convince him or his FB clique.
I'll try though, since I have not met my goose chase quota this month.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 15, 2020, 02:32:55 PM
You might also point out that there were also fires in Mexico.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 15, 2020, 02:51:49 PM
I don't know why an American is expecting the US map to include foreign country data.

There has been 675 forest fire in Quebec this year so far.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2020, 02:55:06 PM
He is not an American, despite parroting the Deep State, corona hoax, QAnon conspiracy theory lines which makes it more sad. Very americanised though, I'll grant you that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 15, 2020, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2020, 02:12:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 15, 2020, 01:52:57 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2020, 01:47:32 PM
I am sure you all missed the Brown Eye meme recycler, so here is another of his posts, non Brown eye in origin :

QuoteInteresting, not only the virus, but also fire became intelligent in 2020, they know where they have to burn 😉 .. no fires in Mexico and Canada. So many coincidences this year 🤘

#DeepState


https://wildfire.alberta.ca/wildfire-status/status-map.aspx
Five fires in Alberta right now (thankfully all controlled)

https://governmentofbc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f0ac328d88c74d07aa2ee385abe2a41b
Whole bunch in BC - 2 not under control

https://yukon.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=b15654d170224c19aa1b8e29a6c57dc3
Whole bunch in Yukon

I suspected as much, but I am afraid your data won't convince him or his FB clique.
I'll try though, since I have not met my goose chase quota this month.
there have been 2 very large fires in Quebec earlier this year.
And as for how many:
https://sopfeu.qc.ca/

twice as much surface has been burnt by wildfire in Quebec this year, compared to the 10 years average.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 15, 2020, 03:42:28 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2020, 02:55:06 PM
He is not an American, despite parroting the Deep State, corona hoax, QAnon conspiracy theory lines which makes it more sad. Very americanised though, I'll grant you that.
I don't understand why that QAnon shit is spreading all over the world.  They're getting stronger over here, too, being linked to protests in Montreal and Quebec city.  And all over fucking Facebook.

I used to argue with them, but I got tired of all of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 15, 2020, 04:16:37 PM
Because governments everywhere lack transparency.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 15, 2020, 04:21:14 PM
Conspiracy theories make you feel smart.  You're seeing something that most others are too stupid to see.  If you're a stupid person, then there aren't that many ways to feel smart, and certainly none that are this easy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 15, 2020, 04:22:57 PM
Fuck, I've wasted 35 years reading books when I could have just subscribed to some conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 15, 2020, 04:51:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2020, 04:22:57 PM
Fuck, I've wasted 35 years reading books when I could have just subscribed to some conspiracy theories.
Quote"Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 15, 2020, 05:05:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 15, 2020, 04:21:14 PM
Conspiracy theories make you feel smart.  You're seeing something that most others are too stupid to see.  If you're a stupid person, then there aren't that many ways to feel smart, and certainly none that are this easy.

What if you're not stupid? I'm asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 15, 2020, 06:34:25 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 15, 2020, 04:51:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2020, 04:22:57 PM
Fuck, I've wasted 35 years reading books when I could have just subscribed to some conspiracy theories.
Quote"Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking."


Don't ruin that one for me as well!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 15, 2020, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 15, 2020, 04:51:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2020, 04:22:57 PM
Fuck, I've wasted 35 years reading books when I could have just subscribed to some conspiracy theories.
Quote"Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking."

Good thing I stopped in my mid-20s. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 16, 2020, 05:09:11 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 15, 2020, 04:16:37 PM
Because governments everywhere lack transparency.
did you negotiate your mortgage in the parking lot?  Did your doctor post your test results on a web page accessible to everyone?

There's lot of transparency on things that matter to the public opinion.  But when it comes to negotiations, it's better to keep it to a finite number of people in a small room.  Negotiation a commercial treaty with 30 million people would be nightmarish.  Before it's submitted for a vote, we get to see it and study it.  That's fine by me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2020, 12:47:59 PM
QuoteGene Cooper

Are you being Gaslighted ?

Posted by a friend :
WHAT IS GASLIGHTING?

The term originates in the systematic psychological manipulation of a victim by her husband in Patrick Hamilton's 1938 stage play Gas Light, and the film adaptations released in 1940 and 1944. In the story, the husband attempts to convince his wife and others that she is insane by manipulating small elements of their environment and insisting that she is mistaken, remembering things incorrectly, or delusional when she points out these changes. The play's title alludes to how the abusive husband slowly dims the gas lights in their home, while pretending nothing has changed, in an effort to make his wife doubt her own perceptions. The wife repeatedly asks her husband to confirm her perceptions about the dimming lights, but in defiance of reality, he keeps insisting that the lights are the same and instead it is she who is going insane.

We are living in a perpetual state of gaslighting. The reality that we are being told by the media is at complete odds with what we are seeing with our own two eyes. And when we question the false reality that we are being presented, or we claim that what we see is that actual reality, we are vilified as racist or bigots or just plain crazy. You're not racist. You're not crazy. You're being gaslighted.

New York State has twice as many deaths from Covid-19 than any other state, and New York has accounted for one fifth of all Covid-19 deaths, but we are told that New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has handled the pandemic better than any other governor. But if we support policies of Governors whose states had only a fraction of the infections and deaths as New York, we're called anti-science and want people to die. So, we ask ourselves, am I crazy? No, you're being gaslighted.

We see mobs of people looting stores, smashing windows, setting cars on fire and burning down buildings, but we are told that these demonstrations are peaceful protests. And when we call this destruction of our cities, riots, we are called racists. So, we ask ourselves, am I crazy? No, you're being gaslighted.

We see the major problem destroying many inner-cities is crime; murder, gang violence, drug dealing, drive-by shootings, armed robbery, but we are told that it is not crime, but the police that are the problem in the inner-cities. We are told we must defund the police and remove law enforcement from crime-riddled cities to make them safer. But if we advocate for more policing in cities overrun by crime, we are accused of being white supremacists and racists. So, we ask ourselves, am I crazy? No, you're being gaslighted.

The United States of America accepts more immigrants than any other country in the world. The vast majority of the immigrants are "people of color", and these immigrants are enjoying freedom and economic opportunity not available to them in their country of origin, but we are told that the United States is the most racist and oppressive country on the planet, and if we disagree, we are called racist and xenophobic. So, we ask ourselves, am I crazy? No, you're being gaslighted.

Capitalist countries are the most prosperous countries in the world The standard of living is the highest in capitalist countries. We see more poor people move up the economic ladder to the middle and even the wealthy class through their effort and ability in capitalist countries than any other economic system in the world, but we are told capitalism is an oppressive system designed to keep people down. So, we ask ourselves, am I crazy? No, you're being gaslighted.

Communist countries killed over 100 million people in the 20th century. Communist countries strip their citizens of basic human rights, dictate every aspect of their lives, treat their citizens like slaves, and drive their economies into the ground, but we are told that Communism is the fairest, most equitable, freest and most prosperous economic system in the world. So, we ask ourselves, am I crazy? No, you're being gaslighted.

The most egregious example of gaslighting is the concept of "white fragility". You spend your life trying to be a good person, trying to treat people fairly and with respect. You disavow racism and bigotry in all its forms. You judge people solely on the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

You don't discriminate based on race or ethnicity. But you are told you are a racist, not because of something you did or said, but solely because of the color of your skin. You know instinctively that charging someone with racism because of their skin color is itself racist. You know that you are not racist, so you defend yourself and your character, but you are told that your defense of yourself is proof of your racism. So, we ask ourselves, am I crazy? No, you're being gaslighted.

Gaslighting has become one of the most pervasive and destructive tactics in American politics. It is the exact opposite of what our political system was meant to be. It deals in lies and psychological coercion, and not the truth and intellectual discourse. If you ever ask yourself if you're crazy, you are not. Crazy people aren't sane enough to ask themselves if they're crazy. So, trust yourself, believe what's in your heart. Trust your eyes over what you are told. Never listen to the people who tell you that you are crazy, because you are not, you're being gaslighted.

Sophocles said: "What people believe prevails over the truth."

And that's what the media are trying to exploit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 17, 2020, 12:50:37 PM
If they're being told that the Soviet Union was great then maybe they should stop listening to the GOP.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 17, 2020, 03:45:29 PM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/119638632_321386229284320_7336857484407479548_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lH19Puc00bgAX-drn2r&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=192361df09587b3f2c7adb677edc6ddf&oe=5F88DA64)

More from the Brown Eye.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 18, 2020, 06:59:38 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2020, 12:47:59 PM
QuoteGene Cooper

Are you being Gaslighted ?

Posted by a friend :
WHAT IS GASLIGHTING?


And that's what the media are trying to exploit.

It starts well. Nice to see them waking up to the fact...
Ah no. Its just the typical thing where the Trumpys throw the valid criticisms aimed at them  back the way they came in order to muddy the waters and lessen the effectiveness of this counter-fascist argument.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 18, 2020, 07:20:52 AM
It's a tactic Russians perfected.  If you want to know what the Russians are guilty of, listen to what they accuse others of doing and you'll generally have a good idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 18, 2020, 08:13:47 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 18, 2020, 07:20:52 AM
It's a tactic Russians perfected.  If you want to know what the Russians are guilty of, listen to what they accuse others of doing and you'll generally have a good idea.

Trump and co. are even doing it with the whole dementia angle on Biden. It is quite clearly Trump who is increasingly unable to maintain the mental capacity to even fake his job, yet they accuse Biden with the very same thing.

Which is kind of smart because what option Biden has to cover this topic? Say "no YOU have dementia!"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2020, 10:41:26 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71905845_2404906856231330_8548407051431182336_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=woUfILk818sAX9qnX20&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=201e7071eb5c354a1e68f94a9ae870dc&oe=5F912A10)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 23, 2020, 12:06:07 PM
Didn't Sharpton use to be a fat guy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 23, 2020, 04:18:19 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 23, 2020, 12:06:07 PM
Didn't Sharpton use to be a fat guy?
I googled it, and apparently it's not cancer, it's actually a very dramatic weight loss program that didn't involve surgery.  That's quite impressive if true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 24, 2020, 12:28:05 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/119997097_3574018552632273_957218794650744345_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=KWO1wDAU9KMAX_OrVQR&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3399fa125a2f2642be77abd79145f3a5&oe=5F9344DB)

Top Comments on this image (not from my family):

QuoteHe should love having a white family, his black family didn't care about him! Who does he think he is, had everything given to him on a silver platter, and the world owes him more, I don't think so! PERIOD! He should be giving back to white people that need help, and quit acting like some body owes him something! PERIOD!

QuoteMaybe an investigation is warranted!!! What the heck happened to make him so filled with hate, anger, disrespect and arrogance!?!?!?! My apologies if they contributed nothing to what he's become!!! Maybe he was just born mad :mad: :mad:

QuoteYou see what money does to a person,no matter who raised him , he just took the wrong path these are the people we all need to pray for

QuotePerson 1: What was the turning point for him to start spewing such hatred

Person 2: girl friend who is a Muslim

QuoteAnd this is how he repay them by Trashing the United States Our country is not perfect but it's better then all the other's

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on September 24, 2020, 04:17:49 AM
I know it's pointless to discuss with this kind of people, but...

QuoteKaepernick was born in 1987 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to Heidi Russo, who is white. His birth father, who is African-American, separated from Russo before Kaepernick was born. Russo placed Kaepernick for adoption with a white couple named Rick and Teresa Kaepernick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 24, 2020, 05:06:30 AM
Yeah, felt like checking it for myself (also to remind me who the guy is). Didn't know he was mixed race. #Merca #Onedroprule
In doing so also came across this that I found quite interesting and inspiring.
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54238642
Awesome guy there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 24, 2020, 10:34:56 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/119710996_3501503026576104_1418819196287668343_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=n_BTeNhWQMQAX8tqEI6&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2c4e63e8509d13626a37e7aa2f8c9eb7&oe=5F943768)

"pedifile" - document about feet? :unsure:

Also .... people who vote actually believe this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 24, 2020, 10:40:47 AM
Crazies are citizens too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 24, 2020, 11:57:41 AM
Damn straight!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 24, 2020, 01:40:39 PM
It just shows how disconnected from reality conspiracy theories can make you that somebody believes pedophilia is an important factor in this election.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 24, 2020, 03:32:00 PM
Pedifiles? Foot files?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 25, 2020, 01:36:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71336674_2265157623797202_2813680118386393088_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=alPb03_LnsoAX9sW2mG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ad55f8e5faaabe8650ff8073745a7134&oe=5F91F56C)

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Technically, I guess, my oldest sister is still in that club. Though I'm not sure how that squares with her constant posts about her coffee/caffeine addiction and love for alcohol. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2020, 02:09:57 AM
I know religion is all about faith but it does seem odd to believe in a religion with documented evidence proving it is false. Mormonism is kind of a wonder that way. Guys like Mohammed and Jesus are at least shadowy figures with only second hand stories about them, not mountains of primary sources all showing they were frauds.

QuoteOh yeah, I forgot about that. Technically, I guess, my oldest sister is still in that club. Though I'm not sure how that squares with her constant posts about her coffee/caffeine addiction and love for alcohol.

So I passed by a bank today and saw that one of the managing bankers in the establishmen was pictured wearing a head scarf in an Islamic manner. I didn't think much of it at first but as I was walking to my car suddenly I realized how odd it was that somebody could care enough about Islam to wear a head scarf but still make her career in haram western banking. But hey maybe she just likes wearing head scarfs or belongs to some small sect of Islam that has no problem with making money from interest or just doesn't care. People often have a complicated relationship with their religion (or culture I guess) that often varies from the official version.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 25, 2020, 08:41:12 AM
I think it's pretty obvious by now that most people will have beliefs that they are not interested in ever critically examining or checking for consistency.  It may be religion, it may be Fox News, it may be Facebook, it may be QAnon.  Whether that's purely a flaw of human nature that's exceedingly difficult to remove, or a necessary part of human living (perhaps to make up for some other flaws), remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on September 25, 2020, 09:02:25 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 25, 2020, 02:09:57 AM
I know religion is all about faith but it does seem odd to believe in a religion with documented evidence proving it is false. Mormonism is kind of a wonder that way. Guys like Mohammed and Jesus are at least shadowy figures with only second hand stories about them, not mountains of primary sources all showing they were frauds.


My favorite is the John Frum cargo cult - that worshiped an apocryphal White dude who would show up from heaven and distribute "cargo" from heavenly airplanes to the good people of Vanuatu. Cult activities involved building fake landing strips in the jungle to entice heavenly airplanes to land, dressing up like WW2 GIs to encourage delivery of "cargo" from heaven, etc.

You would think this was a relic of early contact with outsiders and would die out when the locals became more familiar with the outside world.

Not a bit of it. It is still going strong. This, despite the fact cult members are in sone cases airline pilots themselves! In anthropology class, we watched a film of cult members being interviewed on this exact point. The interviewer was all "it's been a long time since WW2 ended and a lot has changed. You all know about airplanes and cars and things like that. Why do you think John Frum will come back to distribute cargo?" The answer: "you Christians have been waiting 2000 years for Jesus to come back from the dead - we will wait at least twice that long for John Frum!".

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 25, 2020, 03:16:16 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79734433_2565125326858297_4213307825830494208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=XbTqZVmMj7QAX-RZ9Ak&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=bf097ae82603fc069fa7ddcea4918f60&oe=5F94D01C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 25, 2020, 03:29:24 PM
Really? Did you not notice all the shit we went through and the money we spent fighting our "war on drugs"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 25, 2020, 03:41:58 PM
If they don't like what the country is doing then maybe change the president? Idk, I'm a Swede.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2020, 12:26:31 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0dvrxPH/ny.png)

The article:

https://nypost.com/2020/09/27/andrew-cuomo-has-gone-loco-on-crime-and-vaccines/?fbclid=IwAR3z_KVH8P6EX1nDztPB4wu7Jg5mWPoOg5Szt-EIIsz6D5iJubGB380rryA

QuoteGov. Andrew Cuomo was really losing it last week.

Strike one: his absurd vow that New York will do its own testing on any COVID-19 vaccine the feds approve.

Strike two: his bizarre threat to cut off funding for the city if he doesn't like its NYPD reform plans — even as he also hits Mayor Bill de Blasio for not doing enough to stop spiking gun violence.

Strike three: his unhinged charge that the homicide of Breonna Taylor was "murder."

Even sane-seeming moves look weird on closer examination: The gov named a committee of 20 to advise him on distributing any vaccine — but it's stacked with his donors and labor cronies.

And it's just nuts to say he's assembling a panel of experts tasked with "double-checking" any Trump administration-approved vaccine for efficacy and safety. Sorry: The work on vaccines is all being done by professionals — some of whom would be sure to scream if politicians (insanely) tried to push a bad vaccine.

More, that double-check would cost money the state doesn't have — and, presumably, delay vaccine distribution, too.

Worst, Cuomo fed anti-vax hysteria just so he could dump on the president and so score a point or two with Trump-haters.

He stooped to giving de Blasio another public wedgie at the same press conference, railing about the city's worsening crime even as he reprimanded city leaders for failing to submit a police reform plan.

Hello: "Reforms" at the state and city level are driving the rise in violent crime — does he really demand more, when the NYPD is a national model of restraint?

But the lowest low was Cuomo's decision to wade into the Breonna Taylor story with a slide saying her death was a "murder and where there's a murder there are murderers."

Murder? Heck, NBA analyst Shaquille O'Neal made the key point: "When you talk about murder, you have to show intent." And no one rational thinks those Louisville cops intended to kill anyone the night they executed that search warrant.

You can argue they were in the wrong in how they proceeded — and you can certainly say (we do) that this shows reason to ban no-knock drug raids. But Cuomo's chosen language is inexcusable for the governor of a state where cops are under siege.

The gov needs to take a week off from talking to the press (let his aides release the virus updates) and focus on figuring out how to plug the state's $14.5 billion budget deficit. It may be boring, but at least then he'll be putting out fires — not setting them.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2020, 12:27:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/120197894_10221172760622228_4232474740710625012_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ntrvQVVGm3gAX93LbNs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=544a221c98604295a25be5576f0f7c20&oe=5F96615A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 29, 2020, 02:43:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiyfwZVAzGw
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2020, 12:31:53 PM
My brother in law shared a YouTube video "proving" that Biden wore an earpiece during the debate. Apparently there was a shirt crease that, if you squint, kinda looks like a cable.

The post was flagged as fake news with three links to fact checkers (Politifact, reuters, AP). My brother in law disagrees: "It's not a crease. They think we are stupid and blind." My sister added, "Fact checkers from fb say it is fake......no surprise" because Facebook is apparently known for its left wing bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 02, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
QuoteThey think we are stupid and blind

Well if you continually provide evidence this is the case I can see why they would think so :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2020, 01:29:44 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 02, 2020, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 02, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
QuoteThey think we are stupid and blind

Well if you continually provide evidence this is the case I can see why they would think so :hmm:
They are right in some cases.  It must suck to live in a world full of these massive shadow organizations that rule every aspect of life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 02, 2020, 01:34:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 02, 2020, 12:31:53 PM
My brother in law shared a YouTube video "proving" that Biden wore an earpiece during the debate. Apparently there was a shirt crease that, if you squint, kinda looks like a cable.

The post was flagged as fake news with three links to fact checkers (Politifact, reuters, AP). My brother in law disagrees: "It's not a crease. They think we are stupid and blind." My sister added, "Fact checkers from fb say it is fake......no surprise" because Facebook is apparently known for its left wing bias.

Does it mean they think Trump did not win the debate?  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 02, 2020, 01:39:14 PM
Can you imagine being so paranoid you think that Biden is secretly wearing an earpiece but so stupid that you think that somebody in 2020 would wear a secret earpiece that needed a cable?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 02, 2020, 01:42:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 02, 2020, 01:39:14 PM
Can you imagine being so paranoid you think that Biden is secretly wearing an earpiece but so stupid that you think that somebody in 2020 would wear a secret earpiece that needed a cable?

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 02, 2020, 02:58:24 PM
Let me say this: if we have another debate and Trump wants to wear an earpiece, I welcome it.  Hell I encourage it.  It would great progress for him to listen to what someone else had to say and it might prevent the repeat of the horror show of what happens when he speaks unscripted and unfiltered.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 02, 2020, 03:00:08 PM
I highly doubt that there will be another debate for this election. My best guess is that he's really sick.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 02, 2020, 03:23:05 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 02, 2020, 03:00:08 PM
he's really sick.

That's true.

Not only that, he may also have a bad case of COVID-19.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2020, 03:24:50 PM
At least now everyone, including the lamestream media can find something positive about him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 02, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 02, 2020, 03:24:50 PM
At least now everyone, including the lamestream media can find something positive about him.

His test?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 02, 2020, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 02, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 02, 2020, 03:24:50 PM
At least now everyone, including the lamestream media can find something positive about him.

His test?

Best line I have heard so far is Trump's Twitter account finally posted something positive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 03, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/120468535_3341314295906740_3130318173097973693_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Rlo96kAEyP4AX8GPnZI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=81cdecf992634ed3dd5fa08acb3c7ffc&oe=5F9F100C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2020, 10:23:42 AM
That's the best one in... a long time.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 10:29:44 AM
The bizarre inability to get people to understand this simple concept is so confounding.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 10:43:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 10:29:44 AM
The bizarre inability to get people to understand this simple concept is so confounding.

You assume that they're willing to understand, maybe that's assuming too much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 11:01:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 10:29:44 AM
The bizarre inability to get people to understand this simple concept is so confounding.

I have a friend who is regularly insulted whenever the idea that he might have "privilege" comes up.

He's a straight, white guy who was raised in a middle-class family in a middle-class suburb of Chicago. His parents were both college grads, and he has a Masters' Degree. He now has a middle-class job, though he makes less than his wife. He's good looking, 6'1", and was a competitive swimmer.

He has literally lived life on the easiest possible setting. And if you tell him that, he becomes downright furious. Because in his mind, that means that he's not being given credit for what he's accomplished. That's not it at all, of course. Not every straight white guy in America accomplishes what he's accomplished. But it sure was easier for him to get there than it was (and continues to be) for his wife. She grew up poor in a small Iowa town with one college-educated parent (teacher), is 5'0", and had to do what he did while fighting sexism and being infantilized (due to her tiny size) in a male-dominated field.

Intellectually, I think he understands. Internally, he seethes when it's brought up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2020, 11:04:59 AM
Middle-class is indeed more relevant than being white. Maybe try something like [spoiler]white[/spoiler] bourgeois privilège.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 11:07:34 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2020, 11:04:59 AM
Middle-class is indeed more relevant than being white. Maybe try something like [spoiler]white[/spoiler] bourgeois privilège.

Maybe where you live. That is not the case here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 11:15:13 AM
From my cousin. *sighs*

QuoteFOR ANYONE NOT SUPPORTING TRUMP
Do you dislike that he made cruelty to animals a FELONY? Do you dislike he gave billions to stop the opioid crisis? He destroyed ISIS, killed how many terrorists without going to war and oh wait, everyone said we'd be in World War III by now with North Korea? Do you dislike him because we are the Largest producer of oil? Do you dislike him because he wanted to build a wall to keep criminals and drugs from coming in? Do you dislike him because he just slashed the price for medications and some cases 50%, which is driving big Pharma nuts? Do you dislike that he signed a law ending the gag-order on pharmacists that prevented them from sharing money-saving options on prescriptions? Do you dislike that he signed the Save Our Seas Act which funds 10 million per year to clean tons of plastic and garbage from the ocean? Do you dislike that he signed a bill for airports to provide breast-feeding stations for nursing moms? Do you dislike that he signed the biggest wilderness protection and conservation bill in a decade designating 375,000 acres as protected land? Do you dislike that he loves America and puts Americans first? Do you dislike that he made a gay man the ambassador of Germany and then asked him to clean up national security and unclassified as much of it as possible for transparency? Do you dislike that he's kept almost every campaign promise (with ZERO support from Congress who work against him daily!) plus 100 more promises because Washington was much more broken than he thought? Do you dislike like that he works for free, donating his salary to different charities? Do you dislike that he's done more for the black community than every other President? Do you dislike that he listened to senator Scott and passed Invest In Opportunity Zones to help minorities? Do you dislike that he passed prison reform, which gives people a second chance and has made quite a huge difference for the black communities? Do you dislike that he passed VA reforms to benefit the very people who served our country and defend our freedom? Do you dislike that he's winning and signing new trade deals that benefit Americans, instead of costing us more? Do you dislike that he loves his flag and his country? Do you dislike that he calls out and has shown all of us that they ARE Fake News, and they twist the truth to control and mislead the people and he is trying to protect us from this? Do you dislike that he's ending wars? Do you dislike that he has made a commitment to end child-trafficking and crimes against humanity and has made 1000's of arrests already? Do you dislike he's brought home over 40 Americans held captive, the last one from Iran? Do you dislike that he's proven he was right about the Deep State and he was spied on? Do you dislike that he was a Billionaire before he ran for President and now is worth at least 1/3 less... because he loves America THAT MUCH? Do you dislike that he's making the world pay their fair share for the UN for protection? Do you dislike that he respects cops, veterans, ICE & First Responders? Do you dislike that he does not sell out America to other countries, like the leaders prior to him have done? Could it be possible that the ones who SELL OUT America to line their pockets OWN THE MEDIA AND HOLLYWOOD and hate him so much for trying to expose them and hate him for putting the PEOPLE first that they manipulate our thinking and control the information we get to steer US to hate him? These people benefit when you hate the man trying to stop them... so they won't have to give up the wealth they have gotten and continue to get thru mass taxation and control. Wouldn't you at least want to RESEARCH this possibility? Could 65,000 Americans already know the TRUTH... that he has done more for blacks in the last 20 years than our last 5 Presidents put together and is actually NOT a racist but you believe he is because it has been drilled into your head and yet you've never researched his accomplishments? You can start by watching those daily briefings he did during the lockdown (all on line) and then watching the coverage on the Main Stream Media and how they twisted it. Do you actually believe the President encouraged America to inject bleach? Did you research the effects of UV LIGHT which is used to disinfect SCHOOL BUSES and medical equipment and is also being used as a treatment for bacteria and respiratory infections by injecting it into humans (search Healight but don't use Google... they are part of the Deep State and manipulate what we see! And they sell our info, which is why you see merchandise pop up the day after you searched for something! Use Duckduckgo)!!! They want you to believe he is stupid because if you figure out that he isn't, they will lose billions of dollars and all their control. I know... it is hard to let go of what you believed to be true for most of your life. You are not alone. But your BLIND hatred of this man who is literally trying to save us from the far Left, radical Socialists is going to be detrimental to our country if you continue to support their hatred. They are teaching hatred and separation... even in families! You are not allowed to agree with "part" of their agenda and think for yourself; you must repeat their FULL belief system or name-calling and insults ensue... this is the definition of a cult! All or nothing! They despise LAW AND ORDER. Just look around you. He supports it, so we are safe and can live in a civilized society. He stands for unity and America first.
You will be amazed at how much more peace comes into your life when you turn off the FAKE NEWS and turn on the true America, where we focus on what unites us, not what divides us. The media hates him from day one. Impeachment was on the table before he was elected. They said Impeach the mother Fuc#^*r....but his rhetoric is bad? He's never given a chance yet he's done more in 4 years than any president with zero help from the media or democrats. Results don't lie onto the radical left.
How dare he care so much about America. Love it or leave it.
Do your research... I have!
I Copied/pasted will you??
All of these are verifiable things Trump has done! And verifiable that the media twists his words!
Enough said 📷. I don't want to argue, I just want people to be informed and to make their own opinions not just what we are told mostly by main stream media. Do your own research, please.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2020, 11:15:31 AM
Quote from: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 11:07:34 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2020, 11:04:59 AM
Middle-class is indeed more relevant than being white. Maybe try something like [spoiler]white[/spoiler] bourgeois privilège.

Maybe where you live. That is not the case here.

Maybe.
It's just that this "concept" is being imported here by the local ID politics left, with disastrous effects.
Given the welfare state here, the comparison with the US situation is apples and oranges, yet made all the time.

PS: nice to have a post by our cousin instead of a meme, but it could use some punctuation.  :P Probably some fact-checking as well (Daesh destroyed by the Donald? Right...)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 11:22:59 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2020, 11:15:31 AM
Quote from: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 11:07:34 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2020, 11:04:59 AM
Middle-class is indeed more relevant than being white. Maybe try something like [spoiler]white[/spoiler] bourgeois privilège.

Maybe where you live. That is not the case here.

Maybe.

Just the fact that he can have a barbecue, go birdwatching, walk down the street, and drive a car and not have to worry about someone calling the police on him for "acting real funny" is kind of huge. Especially because there's absolutely no way of knowing how the police will respond given his height and size. If he were black, it is just as likely to be handcuffs as a chat. Unfortunately, that kind of thing happens all too often here. That's privilege.

QuoteIt's just that this "concept" is being imported here by the local ID politics left, with disastrous effects.
Given the welfare state here, the comparison with the US situation is apples and oranges, yet made all the time.

Your issues are your issues. Don't try to push them on us. We have enough of our own. :P

QuotePS: nice to have a post by our cousin instead of a meme, but it could use some punctuation.  :P Probably some fact-checking as well (Daesh destroyed by him? Right...)

He didn't type any of that. It's a meme, just not in picture form. He's lazy as fuck and isn't about to do any research on any of that, either. He regularly posts shit where his friends and our family is providing proof that it's bullshit. He doesn't care.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 11:25:40 AM
All White Privilege means is that you don't have to put up with the shit of being black (or whatever) in the United States. It doesn't mean your life hasn't been horrible or you haven't spent 20 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit or you haven't lived in poverty with no legs or whatever. But I constantly see people on both sides of the identity politics divide thinking it means every white person has a trust fund and their own helicopter or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 11:15:13 AM
From my cousin. *sighs*

"Research" with no links or explanations. Well color me convinced.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
So basically the so-called ™White Privilege™ is actually being able to enjoy human rights as would say Tania de Montaigne here:

https://www.lesinrocks.com/2020/06/09/actualite/medias-actualite/privilege-blanc-tania-de-montaigne-exprime-son-desaccord-avec-virginie-despentes/ (https://www.lesinrocks.com/2020/06/09/actualite/medias-actualite/privilege-blanc-tania-de-montaigne-exprime-son-desaccord-avec-virginie-despentes/)

So disagreeing with the local Peggy McIntosh (herself coming from the top of the white US bourgeoisie) i.e Virginie Despentes (not so élite but still bourgeoise).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 11:34:10 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
So basically the so-called ™White Privilege™ is actually being able to enjoy human rights as would say Tania de Montaigne here:

Yeah it is not a big deal at all unless you don't have it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 03, 2020, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 11:25:40 AM
All White Privilege means is that you don't have to put up with the shit of being black (or whatever) in the United States. It doesn't mean your life hasn't been horrible or you haven't spent 20 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit or you haven't lived in poverty with no legs or whatever. But I constantly see people on both sides of the identity politics divide thinking it means every white person has a trust fund and their own helicopter or something.

Yeah. It's annoying how many people don't get this.
I see it basically like a character sheet. You get various buffs and debuffs for privelege. E.g. +20 for having rich parents, - 5 for being black, etc... And there's also lots of stuff on the perks where you get smaller or bigger bonuses when faced with people with different perks.

If I was ever to do a sociology PhD (I'm not) I'd love to try and quantify these numbers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
If the phrase "white privilege" is pissing off reasonable white people, then maybe it's a sign that this phrase is counter-productive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 11:44:32 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
If the phrase "white privilege" is pissing off reasonable white people, then maybe it's a sign that this phrase is counter-productive.

I agree and like I said not just white people find it confusing. But nobody consulted me. But this is not unusual when words from academia go out into the wild. Like "institutional racism" which is probably well understood and agreed upon in the ivory tower but confusing outside it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on October 03, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
I guess it depends on whether its purpose is to make people feel comfortable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 12:05:25 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
If the phrase "white privilege" is pissing off reasonable white people, then maybe it's a sign that this phrase is counter-productive.

Or maybe those people were not as reasonable as they thought.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 03, 2020, 12:08:22 PM
Yes but I am not sure how much we can expect people to understand the subtle difference of saying that they led a relatively privileged life compared to minorities vs. saying they had no challenges to overcome and had it too easy. Such a subtle difference between a valid point and an unjust personal insult is not a good way of driving a point across.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 12:11:13 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2020, 12:08:22 PM
Yes but I am not sure how much we can expect people to understand the subtle difference of saying that they led a relatively privileged life compared to minorities vs. saying they had no challenges to overcome and had it too easy. Such a subtle difference between a valid point and an unjust personal insult is not a good way of driving a point across.

That is not a subtle difference IMO. It is consciously or inconciously misinterpreted, and people tend to overreact out of defensiveness, be it reasonable or not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 12:12:35 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2020, 12:08:22 PM
Yes but I am not sure how much we can expect people to understand the subtle difference of saying that they led a relatively privileged life compared to minorities vs. saying they had no challenges to overcome and had it too easy. Such a subtle difference between a valid point and an unjust personal insult is not a good way of driving a point across.

The easiest way that I've seen this done is to ask a white man if he would happily change places with a black woman.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:13:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 11:44:32 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
If the phrase "white privilege" is pissing off reasonable white people, then maybe it's a sign that this phrase is counter-productive.

I agree and like I said not just white people find it confusing. But nobody consulted me. But this is not unusual when words from academia go out into the wild. Like "institutional racism" which is probably well understood and agreed upon in the ivory tower but confusing outside it.
I think there are three big problems with "white privilege":

1)  Even if there is some truth to it, the messaging is completely counter-productive.  Everyone was born to different circumstances, and thus different levels of head start in different ways.  Some people won the lottery in most of the ways that matter, and thus it's much more likely that they will go on to have a successful life.  If you want such people to empathize with the less fortunate one, hitting them in the face with the hammer of "duh, it was easy for you" is not the effective way to get them to empathize.  This is less about truth and more about effective human communication; sometimes the only way to get the point across is to gently nudge people to get them to see it your way.

2)  Even if you're born to favorable circumstances, you still have to execute on them.  Therefore, people who still executed on them well but now have those achievements dismissed might be a little miffed.  Perhaps human beings with human emotions would be more receptive to messaging of the "it's harder for people in difference circumstances" kind than they would be to "it was easier for you".  Mathematically it's identical, but unfortunately people do not evaluate statements mathematically.

3)  It's racist.  If making generalization about races is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of race.  If making generalizations about genders is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of gender.  If something that you say would sound horrible if you substitute "black" for "white" or "female" for "male", then it actually sounds horrible to at least some reasonable people and thus should be avoided.  If you think that history made bigotry against some okay but not against others, then stop arguing against bigotry, as it's confusing how you can be arguing against it while supporting it.  Bigotry is wrong because it strips individuality from people and reduces them to identities, and white people are just as much of individuals as others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2020, 12:15:13 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 12:11:28 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
If the phrase "white privilege" is pissing off reasonable white people, then maybe it's a sign that this phrase is counter-productive.

To what?

A peaceful society, maybe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 12:15:32 PM
Our country is racist. Period. So until that changes, we have to acknowledge that it exists, and that it factors into how people are treated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 03, 2020, 12:12:35 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2020, 12:08:22 PM
Yes but I am not sure how much we can expect people to understand the subtle difference of saying that they led a relatively privileged life compared to minorities vs. saying they had no challenges to overcome and had it too easy. Such a subtle difference between a valid point and an unjust personal insult is not a good way of driving a point across.

The easiest way that I've seen this done is to ask a white man if he would happily change places with a black woman.

Don't be cis-phobic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on October 03, 2020, 12:26:09 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:13:21 PMEveryone was born to different circumstances, and thus different levels of head start in different ways.

But the thing is, as a statistician knows well, that one's very individual circumstances actually shares a lot of things in common with quite a few number of different people, including things we like to imagine to be unique to us. And all societies are organized around categories that do group people together; people are happy to belong to groups that provide invisible advantages precisely because it magnifies their own accomplishments. In a society that glorified collective accomplishments, that may be frowned upon. But in the US (and elsewhere), the myth of the self-made individual is especially strong, with considerable deleterious effects. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 03, 2020, 12:27:32 PM
Quote3)  It's racist.  If making generalization about races is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of race.  If making generalizations about genders is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of gender.  If something that you say would sound horrible if you substitute "black" for "white" or "female" for "male", then it actually sounds horrible to at least some reasonable people and thus should be avoided.  If you think that history made bigotry against some okay but not against others, then stop arguing against bigotry, as it's confusing how you can be arguing against it while supporting it.  Bigotry is wrong because it strips individuality from people and reduces them to identities, and white people are just as much of individuals as others.
Fair points on the others to some extent, the second rings some bells of those people who insist everything is down to decisions and psychology isn't a thing, but I'm sure its not what you meant.

On this one though.... No.
Its not racist at all.
Imagine you, as you are, everything exactly the same, expect black.
You would have faced more struggles in your life, you would have had whatever things you had against you in the real world plus the added negatives that came from racism.
Same too with a female version of you. Imagine everything is the same then add the sexism on top.

None of this is to say a rich black woman is somehow less privileged than a poor white guy. But comparing like with like these are negative factors in our current society.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:37:13 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 03, 2020, 12:26:09 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:13:21 PMEveryone was born to different circumstances, and thus different levels of head start in different ways.

But the thing is, as a statistician knows well, that one's very individual circumstances actually shares a lot of things in common with quite a few number of different people, including things we like to imagine to be unique to us. And all societies are organized around categories that do group people together; people are happy to belong to groups that provide invisible advantages precisely because it magnifies their own accomplishments. In a society that glorified collective accomplishments, that may be frowned upon. But in the US (and elsewhere), the myth of the self-made individual is especially strong, with considerable deleterious effects.
Bringing statistics in to justify bigotry is Pandora's box better left unopened.  Bigotry is wrong because it is morally wrong, and because it's self-perpetuating.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:37:13 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 03, 2020, 12:26:09 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:13:21 PMEveryone was born to different circumstances, and thus different levels of head start in different ways.

But the thing is, as a statistician knows well, that one's very individual circumstances actually shares a lot of things in common with quite a few number of different people, including things we like to imagine to be unique to us. And all societies are organized around categories that do group people together; people are happy to belong to groups that provide invisible advantages precisely because it magnifies their own accomplishments. In a society that glorified collective accomplishments, that may be frowned upon. But in the US (and elsewhere), the myth of the self-made individual is especially strong, with considerable deleterious effects.
Bringing statistics in to justify bigotry is Pandora's box better left unopened.  Bigotry is wrong because it is morally wrong, and because it's self-perpetuating.

Where do you get a justification for bigotry from?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 01:09:10 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:37:13 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 03, 2020, 12:26:09 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:13:21 PMEveryone was born to different circumstances, and thus different levels of head start in different ways.

But the thing is, as a statistician knows well, that one's very individual circumstances actually shares a lot of things in common with quite a few number of different people, including things we like to imagine to be unique to us. And all societies are organized around categories that do group people together; people are happy to belong to groups that provide invisible advantages precisely because it magnifies their own accomplishments. In a society that glorified collective accomplishments, that may be frowned upon. But in the US (and elsewhere), the myth of the self-made individual is especially strong, with considerable deleterious effects.
Bringing statistics in to justify bigotry is Pandora's box better left unopened.  Bigotry is wrong because it is morally wrong, and because it's self-perpetuating.

Where do you get a justification for bigotry from?  :huh:
From reading his post? :huh: The bolded sentence basically reduces part of individual circumstances down to a common level (presumably race, although it's shrouded in Oex-speak).  I'm not disagreeing factually as a statistician, but I'm saying that this isn't a line of argument you want to open up.  You don't want to be deciding whether treating people differently due to their race is appropriate based on statistical arguments.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 01:14:12 PM
I don't see how you get to bigotry from that. I don't even see how you get to what you say from that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 01:14:12 PM
I don't see how you get to bigotry from that. I don't even see how you get to what you say from that.
That doesn't give me much to go on, does it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 01:19:07 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 01:14:12 PM
I don't see how you get to bigotry from that. I don't even see how you get to what you say from that.
That doesn't give me much to go on, does it?

You could try explaining it in a different way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 03, 2020, 01:22:27 PM
I used to believe that "bigotry" involved untrue or at least unfounded ideas about the groups concerned. But checking dictionaries it appears I was at least partly wrong. Learning is good. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 03, 2020, 01:36:20 PM
Statements that would be racist with a different racial appellation attached to them are racist, period. 

I agree that the term "white privilege" is counter-productive if the purpose of using the term is to help others understand they underlying issues, but it is marvelous when used as a crutch for one's own virtue signaling.  It's possible to use it in a fairly benign manner, to describe the situation that exists (not really meaning "privilege" but really "lack of burden"), but is seldom received in that manner even if the use is supposed to be benign.

I don't know of a better term, though, because there's evidence in front of us that tells us that, rather than whites having the expected outcomes and blacks suffering worse outcomes because of racism, it is in facts blacks that suffer the expected outcomes in the US and whites getting treated better because of positive racism.  What's the evidence?   The fact that black cops have the same ratio of violent outcomes between blacks and white as white cops do.  Lots of cops apparently feel that their first instinct should be to use force and that they should only refrain if current circumstances indicate otherwise; and that the victim being white is one (but obviously not the only one) of those current circumstances.

So, "White privilege" sucks as a term to describe a problem in a way that leads to constructive engagement over how to solve the problem, but it isn't "wrong" to think that it does exist as a privilege.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 01:39:30 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 01:19:07 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 01:14:12 PM
I don't see how you get to bigotry from that. I don't even see how you get to what you say from that.
That doesn't give me much to go on, does it?

You could try explaining it in a different way.
It's not really easy to explain things in a different way in response to "I don't get it", but I'll try anyway.

Oex is speaking to me as a statistician, and he says that "a lot of very individual circumstances actually shares a lot of things in common with quite a few number of different people".  He's speaking to me as a statisticians, and it's very clear to me as a statistician what he's saying.  What he's saying is that there is a common denominator to people's circumstances.  It doesn't mean that this common denominator explains all of them, but it just explains a part of them greater than 0%.  If you know someone's common denominator, you can make a better than random guess as to what their circumstances are.  We're discussing "white privilege" here, so in context I think it's fair to assume that what he's saying here is that white people's circumstances are on average somewhat better than other people's.  Are you with me so far?

I don't disagree with above factually, it's pretty clear that statistically it is true.  What I am saying is that even if true, arguments of the form of "people of race X are on average different in some way" is a dangerous argument to make when justifying treating them differently in some way or holding them to different standards.  It's morally wrong, and let's just leave it at that.  Really, I think it is best to be left at that.

How do I get bigotry from that?  It comes from assuming that bigotry is defined as treating people differently because of their identity.  I guess you can make an argument that bigotry is treating people differently because of their identity in a way that's not statistically justified, but then we're back to the dangers I described in the prior paragraph.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 01:42:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 03, 2020, 01:36:20 PM
Statements that would be racist with a different racial appellation attached to them are racist, period. 

I agree that the term "white privilege" is counter-productive if the purpose of using the term is to help others understand they underlying issues, but it is marvelous when used as a crutch for one's own virtue signaling.  It's possible to use it in a fairly benign manner, to describe the situation that exists (not really meaning "privilege" but really "lack of burden"), but is seldom received in that manner even if the use is supposed to be benign.

I don't know of a better term, though, because there's evidence in front of us that tells us that, rather than whites having the expected outcomes and blacks suffering worse outcomes because of racism, it is in facts blacks that suffer the expected outcomes in the US and whites getting treated better because of positive racism.  What's the evidence?   The fact that black cops have the same ratio of violent outcomes between blacks and white as white cops do.  Lots of cops apparently feel that their first instinct should be to use force and that they should only refrain if current circumstances indicate otherwise; and that the victim being white is one (but obviously not the only one) of those current circumstances.

So, "White privilege" sucks as a term to describe a problem in a way that leads to constructive engagement over how to solve the problem, but it isn't "wrong" to think that it does exist as a privilege.
I recall Trevor Noah once arguing that "white privilege" is a bad term, because white people born to decidedly unprivileged circumstances are going to be justifiable offended.  He drew on his South African experience and argued that we should be using the term "black tax" instead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 03, 2020, 01:45:34 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 03, 2020, 01:14:12 PM
I don't see how you get to bigotry from that. I don't even see how you get to what you say from that.

A determination of collective differences between identified groups is a generalization. Generalizations may be true or not true. However, in either case, applying a generalization to a specific individual risks that generalization becoming a stereotype. Bigotry is often based on the application of negative stereotypes to identified individuals.

So basing one's individual circumstances on statistical generalities about a group creates a risk of bigotry.

To give an example: it is true that in the US, Blacks are more commonly convicted of crimes than Whites (never mind that this is likely due at least in part to the very 'white Privilege' under discussion). That can be a true statement, yet lead to bigotry, in this manner: a person assumes, based on this statistic, that an individual Black person is more likely to be a criminal, and treats them accordingly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on October 03, 2020, 02:09:27 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:13:21 PM
3)  It's racist.  If making generalization about races is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of race.  If making generalizations about genders is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of gender.  If something that you say would sound horrible if you substitute "black" for "white" or "female" for "male", then it actually sounds horrible to at least some reasonable people and thus should be avoided.  If you think that history made bigotry against some okay but not against others, then stop arguing against bigotry, as it's confusing how you can be arguing against it while supporting it.  Bigotry is wrong because it strips individuality from people and reduces them to identities, and white people are just as much of individuals as others.
Is it racist to recognize that racism exists? To say someone has white privilege isn't to say they do X because they're white; it's saying they (don't) have X done to them because they're white. It's describing a passive role rather than ascribing an active one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 03:12:30 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 12:13:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 11:44:32 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
If the phrase "white privilege" is pissing off reasonable white people, then maybe it's a sign that this phrase is counter-productive.

I agree and like I said not just white people find it confusing. But nobody consulted me. But this is not unusual when words from academia go out into the wild. Like "institutional racism" which is probably well understood and agreed upon in the ivory tower but confusing outside it.
I think there are three big problems with "white privilege":

1)  Even if there is some truth to it, the messaging is completely counter-productive.  Everyone was born to different circumstances, and thus different levels of head start in different ways.  Some people won the lottery in most of the ways that matter, and thus it's much more likely that they will go on to have a successful life.  If you want such people to empathize with the less fortunate one, hitting them in the face with the hammer of "duh, it was easy for you" is not the effective way to get them to empathize.  This is less about truth and more about effective human communication; sometimes the only way to get the point across is to gently nudge people to get them to see it your way.

2)  Even if you're born to favorable circumstances, you still have to execute on them.  Therefore, people who still executed on them well but now have those achievements dismissed might be a little miffed.  Perhaps human beings with human emotions would be more receptive to messaging of the "it's harder for people in difference circumstances" kind than they would be to "it was easier for you".  Mathematically it's identical, but unfortunately people do not evaluate statements mathematically.

3)  It's racist.  If making generalization about races is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of race.  If making generalizations about genders is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of gender.  If something that you say would sound horrible if you substitute "black" for "white" or "female" for "male", then it actually sounds horrible to at least some reasonable people and thus should be avoided.  If you think that history made bigotry against some okay but not against others, then stop arguing against bigotry, as it's confusing how you can be arguing against it while supporting it.  Bigotry is wrong because it strips individuality from people and reduces them to identities, and white people are just as much of individuals as others.

1. Again this is an academia concept not designed in a lab to be a political slogan.

2. So?

3. Is pointing out how racism is a problem racist itself? I don't see it.

I totally disagree with you except for the first part. The other two are things but have nothing to do with the phrase white privilege itself. To the extent they are problems they are just issues stemming from the first part. People do not understand the concept and instead react emotionally making it limited in its usefulness.

But again the term was not invented to be used by the wider public in a political debate so it is perhaps not unsurprising it sucks for that purpose.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 03, 2020, 03:19:32 PM
What strikes me the wrong way is the term "privilege" implies a special right or benefit. As far as I can tell, it involves not being harassed by cops, not having people assume you are a criminal, generally assuming you are a decent human being rather than the worst, etc.

None of those should be a special right or benefit in a sane society - I think the Trevor Noah comment about "black tax" seems more accurate as it isn't a special benefit being given to whites but a penalty being applied to minorities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 03, 2020, 01:45:34 PM
A determination of collective differences between identified groups is a generalization. Generalizations may be true or not true. However, in either case, applying a generalization to a specific individual risks that generalization becoming a stereotype. Bigotry is often based on the application of negative stereotypes to identified individuals.

So basing one's individual circumstances on statistical generalities about a group creates a risk of bigotry.

To give an example: it is true that in the US, Blacks are more commonly convicted of crimes than Whites (never mind that this is likely due at least in part to the very 'white Privilege' under discussion). That can be a true statement, yet lead to bigotry, in this manner: a person assumes, based on this statistic, that an individual Black person is more likely to be a criminal, and treats them accordingly.

I have a problem with calling this pattern "bigotry" because to my mind it is a perfectly natural response to differing probabilities of wrongdoing. Take the example of shoplifting.  If we assume for the sake of argument that blacks are X% more likely to shoplift than whites, it is perfectly rational for store security to pay more attention to black shoppers than white.  In effect, people who use this definition of bigot require others to pretend that true facts are not true facts.

I've been pushing for a while now to use a different definition of bigot, one that is motivated by animus.  If I wish for bad outcomes for certain groups then I'm a bigot.  If I wish a group ill I'm a bigot.  If I want all Jews to die I'm a bigot.

I don't wish any group ill.  I want everybody to prosper, succeed, and be happy.  But that also includes altering some patterns of antisocial behavior.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 03:28:33 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 03, 2020, 03:19:32 PM
What strikes me the wrong way is the term "privilege" implies a special right or benefit. As far as I can tell, it involves not being harassed by cops, not having people assume you are a criminal, generally assuming you are a decent human being rather than the worst, etc.

None of those should be a special right or benefit in a sane society - I think the Trevor Noah comment about "black tax" seems more accurate as it isn't a special benefit being given to whites but a penalty being applied to minorities.

I know. The term sucks but the concept is true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 03, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
Dorsey is right, the issue isn't that whites are allowed too much, it's that non-whites are not allowed enough.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2020, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 03, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
Dorsey is right, the issue isn't that whites are allowed too much, it's that non-whites are not allowed enough.




Yes. I think we have been saying all along that the problem is that too many unarmed black people get shot by the police, not that more unarmed white people should be shot by police.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
In effect, people who use this definition of bigot require others to pretend that true facts are not true facts.
That's what you have to do sometimes, or more precisely sometimes you just have to not act on true facts, even if it would be beneficial to you.  Anti-discrimination laws don't always protect people against other people being dumb; often they protect people against other people being smart in a way we decided is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2020, 05:28:48 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
In effect, people who use this definition of bigot require others to pretend that true facts are not true facts.
That's what you have to do sometimes, or more precisely sometimes you just have to not act on true facts, even if it would be beneficial to you.  Anti-discrimination laws don't always protect people against other people being dumb; often they protect people against other people being smart in a way we decided is unacceptable.

Can we get some examples?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 05:55:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 03, 2020, 05:28:48 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
In effect, people who use this definition of bigot require others to pretend that true facts are not true facts.
That's what you have to do sometimes, or more precisely sometimes you just have to not act on true facts, even if it would be beneficial to you.  Anti-discrimination laws don't always protect people against other people being dumb; often they protect people against other people being smart in a way we decided is unacceptable.

Can we get some examples?
Employers can't discriminate based on someone's health or disability.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 03, 2020, 08:27:50 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
I have a problem with calling this pattern "bigotry" because to my mind it is a perfectly natural response to differing probabilities of wrongdoing. Take the example of shoplifting.  If we assume for the sake of argument that blacks are X% more likely to shoplift than whites, it is perfectly rational for store security to pay more attention to black shoppers than white.  In effect, people who use this definition of bigot require others to pretend that true facts are not true facts.

The problem with your example is that it shows precisely the kind of bigotry we are talking about.  "If we assume for the sake of argument that blacks are X% more likely to shoplift than whites" is a bigoted assumption because it assumes that the reason that a given person might shoplift is because of the color of their skin.  The "rational" store security that carefully watches the prosperous black couple is far more likely to completely miss the seedy white trash ripping off their store, and it will be because they are buying into a bigoted stereotype.

It is probably true that poor people steal more often than well-off people, and that a random black person is more likely to be poor than a random white person, but that does not make skin color a reliable indicator of propensity to steal.  Dress and manner, irrespective of skin color, would be the reasonable trigger for a rational store security system.  It depends, unlike your example, on true facts are actually true facts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 09:20:53 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 03, 2020, 08:27:50 PM
The problem with your example is that it shows precisely the kind of bigotry we are talking about.  "If we assume for the sake of argument that blacks are X% more likely to shoplift than whites" is a bigoted assumption because it assumes that the reason that a given person might shoplift is because of the color of their skin.
It actually doesn't assume that.  Profiling does not require causation to have non-zero effectiveness, it only requires correlation.  That "correlation is not causation" thing is not always relevant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 03, 2020, 10:38:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 09:20:53 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 03, 2020, 08:27:50 PM
The problem with your example is that it shows precisely the kind of bigotry we are talking about.  "If we assume for the sake of argument that blacks are X% more likely to shoplift than whites" is a bigoted assumption because it assumes that the reason that a given person might shoplift is because of the color of their skin.
It actually doesn't assume that.  Profiling does not require causation to have non-zero effectiveness, it only requires correlation.  That "correlation is not causation" thing is not always relevant.

It actually does.  It assumes that the color of a person's skin correlates with a propensity to steal, and, conversely, that a person's propensity to steal is determined by their skin color.  Neither of these is true.  Propensity to steal is associated with SES, and blacks are disproportionately low SES, but that says not a thing about a random black person who is not low SES.  If stores look for the bums, rather than looking for the blacks, they will avoid racial profiling and crime both.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 03, 2020, 11:43:35 PM
Would that turn race discrimination into class discrimination? I.e. going from "all blacks are probable thieves" to "all poors are probable thieves"? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 12:42:17 AM
People appear confused by the concept of assume for the sake of argument.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 04, 2020, 01:44:38 AM
Correlation and causation appear to be tricky concepts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2020, 02:18:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 05:55:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 03, 2020, 05:28:48 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
In effect, people who use this definition of bigot require others to pretend that true facts are not true facts.
That's what you have to do sometimes, or more precisely sometimes you just have to not act on true facts, even if it would be beneficial to you.  Anti-discrimination laws don't always protect people against other people being dumb; often they protect people against other people being smart in a way we decided is unacceptable.

Can we get some examples?
Employers can't discriminate based on someone's health or disability.

Is it smart to not want to hire someone on this grounds?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2020, 02:20:13 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 12:42:17 AM
People appear confused by the concept of assume for the sake of argument.

Perhaps have another go with a premise that involves an actual fact.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 02:58:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2020, 02:20:13 AM
Perhaps have another go with a premise that involves an actual fact.

Do you think that would make clear what "assume for the sake of argument" means?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2020, 03:23:10 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 02:58:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2020, 02:20:13 AM
Perhaps have another go with a premise that involves an actual fact.

Do you think that would make clear what "assume for the sake of argument" means?

You said that calling such a pattern of behavior of response bigotry as it can be a perfectly rational response based on probabilities. You asked Malthus (us?) to consider for the sake of argument a scenario where black people are more likely to shoplift than white people. And then told us it would be rational in such a circumstance for security to pay more attention to black customers than white.

Now, you said 'assume for the sake of argument' which I guess means you thought posters should ignore considerations about truth content in the premise and just look at your conclusion. But that isn't a magical talisman and people are likely to reject the entire argument if you mention something that is so clearly an example of the topic at hand (how bigoted policies are defended) as well as far removed from reality (it isn't rational to be following a black person such as myself around a store as I've no personal history of stealiing nor reason to do so).

So as I said a premise that contains an actual fact would be preferrable as it would prevent such an outright rejection of your argument. In truth though, I'm not sure that there is a premise based in fact that would lead to your conclusion that the definition of bigotry used by some is to 'require others to pretend that true facts are not true facts.'
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 04, 2020, 03:32:19 AM
In Sweden you don't normally tell store employees your personal history supported by evidence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 03:44:33 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 03, 2020, 10:38:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 09:20:53 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 03, 2020, 08:27:50 PM
The problem with your example is that it shows precisely the kind of bigotry we are talking about.  "If we assume for the sake of argument that blacks are X% more likely to shoplift than whites" is a bigoted assumption because it assumes that the reason that a given person might shoplift is because of the color of their skin.
It actually doesn't assume that.  Profiling does not require causation to have non-zero effectiveness, it only requires correlation.  That "correlation is not causation" thing is not always relevant.

It actually does.  It assumes that the color of a person's skin correlates with a propensity to steal, and, conversely, that a person's propensity to steal is determined by their skin color.  Neither of these is true.  Propensity to steal is associated with SES, and blacks are disproportionately low SES, but that says not a thing about a random black person who is not low SES.  If stores look for the bums, rather than looking for the blacks, they will avoid racial profiling and crime both.
Correlations are transitive.  If A is correlated to B, and B is correlated to C, then A is typically correlated to C, although more weakly than either of the first two correlations.  You're assuming that every other factor for which race proxies is perfectly observable, just as easily as race itself.  That's an assumption so removed from reality that it's useless for discussions of racism. 

The problem with race is that it's the most easily observable quality, apart from maybe gender, whereas people's personal circumstances are not so easily observable.  People don't walk around with five years of income tax statements taped to their foreheads, so your profiling of their income status based on their appearance isn't going to be perfect either, even if it were the one and only causative predictor of theft propensity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 03:56:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2020, 02:18:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 05:55:41 PM
Employers can't discriminate based on someone's health or disability.

Is it smart to not want to hire someone on this grounds?
Employers, especially large ones, self-insure the medical costs that their employees incur, at least up to a point.  Your medical insurance card may say Aetna, but Aetna just provides service, it doesn't bear the insurance risk.  An unhealthy employee is thus going to cost the employer more than a healthy employee, just on that metric alone.  In world with no anti-discrimination laws, it would be smart for your potential employer to take your health status into account as one of the factors when making a hiring decision.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2020, 09:58:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 03, 2020, 11:43:35 PM
Would that turn race discrimination into class discrimination? I.e. going from "all blacks are probable thieves" to "all poors are probable thieves"? :unsure:

No, because noting the fact that poor people are more likely to steal (of necessity, in some cases) isn't "discrimination" in the sense that you seem to mean (i.e. illegal discrimination) but simply discrimination in the plain language sense:  telling two things apart.  It would be interesting to see stats on the total value of things stolen from people below, say, twice the poverty line versus those above it, though.  It would take a lot of poor shoplifters to equal a Bernie Madoff.

No one thinks it is wrong to rent your apartment to the person who can afford it in preference to the person who cannot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2020, 03:23:10 AM
You said that calling such a pattern of behavior of response bigotry as it can be a perfectly rational response based on probabilities. You asked Malthus (us?) to consider for the sake of argument a scenario where black people are more likely to shoplift than white people. And then told us it would be rational in such a circumstance for security to pay more attention to black customers than white.

Now, you said 'assume for the sake of argument' which I guess means you thought posters should ignore considerations about truth content in the premise and just look at your conclusion. But that isn't a magical talisman and people are likely to reject the entire argument if you mention something that is so clearly an example of the topic at hand (how bigoted policies are defended) as well as far removed from reality (it isn't rational to be following a black person such as myself around a store as I've no personal history of stealiing nor reason to do so).

So as I said a premise that contains an actual fact would be preferrable as it would prevent such an outright rejection of your argument. In truth though, I'm not sure that there is a premise based in fact that would lead to your conclusion that the definition of bigotry used by some is to 'require others to pretend that true facts are not true facts.'

Then assume for the sake of argument that white people shoplift more frequently.  Would it be bigoted to follow them around?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 03:56:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2020, 02:18:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 05:55:41 PM
Employers can't discriminate based on someone's health or disability.

Is it smart to not want to hire someone on this grounds?
Employers, especially large ones, self-insure the medical costs that their employees incur, at least up to a point.  Your medical insurance card may say Aetna, but Aetna just provides service, it doesn't bear the insurance risk.  An unhealthy employee is thus going to cost the employer more than a healthy employee, just on that metric alone.  In world with no anti-discrimination laws, it would be smart for your potential employer to take your health status into account as one of the factors when making a hiring decision.

That's only kind of true.

In the US, 60% of employees are covered on self- insured policies. But there are clauses to prevent self-insured companies from being hit with a massive medical bill called Catastrophic Claims clauses.

What this does is effectively say,  "Company A, you are responsible for all claims EXCEPT when a single employee has a significant bill (usually ~$150k). Then, you cover 100% of everything up to $150k, and 10% of everything over that, and we, the insurance company, will cover the other 90% of that employee's claims completely." I've yet to see a self-insurance contract without that language in it, though there may be. I haven't seen every contract there is. :)

What that means is that an employee being diagnosed with cancer, or having a long- term illness, won't actually hurt most large companies, which are by far the ones most likely to be self-insured.

The bigger issue is loss of work, short- term disability, and FMLA locking in a position so that you can't replace the missing employee.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2020, 11:56:20 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2020, 03:23:10 AM
You said that calling such a pattern of behavior of response bigotry as it can be a perfectly rational response based on probabilities. You asked Malthus (us?) to consider for the sake of argument a scenario where black people are more likely to shoplift than white people. And then told us it would be rational in such a circumstance for security to pay more attention to black customers than white.

Now, you said 'assume for the sake of argument' which I guess means you thought posters should ignore considerations about truth content in the premise and just look at your conclusion. But that isn't a magical talisman and people are likely to reject the entire argument if you mention something that is so clearly an example of the topic at hand (how bigoted policies are defended) as well as far removed from reality (it isn't rational to be following a black person such as myself around a store as I've no personal history of stealiing nor reason to do so).

So as I said a premise that contains an actual fact would be preferrable as it would prevent such an outright rejection of your argument. In truth though, I'm not sure that there is a premise based in fact that would lead to your conclusion that the definition of bigotry used by some is to 'require others to pretend that true facts are not true facts.'

Then assume for the sake of argument that white people shoplift more frequently.  Would it be bigoted to follow them around?

I don't see how that fixes anything.

And yes, bigoted as again focused on the color of their skin.

Though it seems that would even make less sense as given white people would often comprise the majority of customers, you'd just be asking your security to make sure your customers didn't steal anything. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 12:03:41 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 03:56:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2020, 02:18:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 03, 2020, 05:55:41 PM
Employers can't discriminate based on someone's health or disability.

Is it smart to not want to hire someone on this grounds?
Employers, especially large ones, self-insure the medical costs that their employees incur, at least up to a point.  Your medical insurance card may say Aetna, but Aetna just provides service, it doesn't bear the insurance risk.  An unhealthy employee is thus going to cost the employer more than a healthy employee, just on that metric alone.  In world with no anti-discrimination laws, it would be smart for your potential employer to take your health status into account as one of the factors when making a hiring decision.

That's only kind of true.

In the US, 60% of employees are covered on self- insured policies. But there are clauses to prevent self-insured companies from being hit with a massive medical bill called Catastrophic Claims clauses.

What this does is effectively say,  "Company A, you are responsible for all claims EXCEPT when a single employee has a significant bill (usually ~$150k). Then, you cover 100% of everything up to $150k, and 10% of everything over that, and we, the insurance company, will cover the other 90% of that employee's claims completely." I've yet to see a self-insurance contract without that language in it, though there may be. I haven't seen every contract there is. :)

What that means is that an employee being diagnosed with cancer, or having a long- term illness, won't actually hurt most large companies, which are by far the ones most likely to be self-insured.

The bigger issue is loss of work, short- term disability, and FMLA locking in a position so that you can't replace the missing employee.
The limit of liability per patient was the "up to a point" part.  But in any case, why wouldn't it hurt an employer to hire someone who costs them $150k in medical insurance costs per year?  You have two candidates for a $50k position; one would cost you $75k per year to employ (let's assume 1.5 multiplier for benefits), and another would cost you $200k+ to employ.  It won't bankrupt the company to make a staffing decision that would cost it 2-3 times the expected cost, but just because it won't hurt them fatally doesn't mean it won't hurt them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on October 04, 2020, 12:50:24 PM
That's why they should hire a woman, they can pay her less.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 12:50:50 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 12:03:41 PM
The limit of liability per patient was the "up to a point" part.  But in any case, why wouldn't it hurt an employer to hire someone who costs them $150k in medical insurance costs per year?  You have two candidates for a $50k position; one would cost you $75k per year to employ (let's assume 1.5 multiplier for benefits), and another would cost you $200k+ to employ.  It won't bankrupt the company to make a staffing decision that would cost it 2-3 times the expected cost, but just because it won't hurt them fatally doesn't mean it won't hurt them.

It's still only 60% of employees, so barely a majority. And the reason you'd hire the "sick" person over the other is they are the better employee candidate. Just like any other.

This is getting dangerously close to "why would you hire a young woman when there's a not-insignificant chance that she'll go out on maternity leave in the next two-to-five years".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 12:51:03 PM
Quote from: PDH on October 04, 2020, 12:50:24 PM
That's why they should hire a woman, they can pay her less.

:ultra:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 12:57:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2020, 11:56:20 AM
I don't see how that fixes anything.

And yes, bigoted as again focused on the color of their skin.

Though it seems that would even make less sense as given white people would often comprise the majority of customers, you'd just be asking your security to make sure your customers didn't steal anything. :P

So your understanding of assuming for the sake of argument was fine and dandy, you disagree with my argument because by your definition focusing on skin color (excepting, one assumes, cases such as racial quotas or set-asides) is bigotry.  Fine, we can disagree about that.  I think bigotry requires animus.

Your last objection is not valid.  If whites are 80% of customers and your security focuses on them, you will still catch more shoplifters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 04, 2020, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 12:50:50 PM
This is getting dangerously close to "why would you hire a young woman when there's a not-insignificant chance that she'll go out on maternity leave in the next two-to-five years".

Do you think that would change what's under discussion?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on October 04, 2020, 02:04:16 PM
I guess one of the issue is that these society-wide preconceptions tend to become self-fulfilling to some degree. e.g. gypsies have been forcibly kept as a lower class and to this day they have shitty chances getting jobs and proper education. Of course a lot of them end up on the very bottom of society in abject poverty. Of course a disproportionate number of them end up committing petty crimes. Which also means that most interaction between gypsies and whites is in that context (because they are shunned out of other social interactions like workplaces etc), which then means that the stereotypes get reinforced which gets in the way of change etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 12:50:50 PM
It's still only 60% of employees, so barely a majority. And the reason you'd hire the "sick" person over the other is they are the better employee candidate. Just like any other.
It's 100% employees for companies that are self-insured.  Garbon asked for an example of when immoral discrimination would be smart, and I gave an example of a company that self-insures its employee medical insurance. 

As for the sick person being a better candidate, now you're just straight out avoiding the discussion.  If you have to respond to "all else being equal" arguments with "but all else is not equal, and a sick employee would be a better candidate", then you really have no response to a statistical argument.  What makes one candidate better over another is a collection of the positive factors and negative factors, and a price tag of an extra $150k is one hell of a negative factor.  If you're arguing that this extra price tag would rationally, laws aside, never make a difference in the hiring decision, then you're handwaving away the issue.  It won't work at convincing other people.
Quote
This is getting dangerously close to "why would you hire a young woman when there's a not-insignificant chance that she'll go out on maternity leave in the next two-to-five years".
Yes, it is dangerously close, which is why I've been making a point throughout this discussion that tying immorality of discrimination to statistical arguments is a really bad idea.  Some discrimination, including pregnancy discrimination, is just immoral and should be illegal because of that.  If you start trying to justify anti-discrimination laws by an argument that it's statistically stupid to discriminate in certain ways, then you're really hanging the validity of your position on statistics, and that's often a losing proposition.  Then you'll be forced to prove that 1 = 2 with statistics because that's the hill you chose to die on, and people that you're trying to convince will think that the whole concept of anti-discrimination laws is based on lies. 

Keep statistics out of it, statistics is not the end all be all of morality.  In the coming years, we'll have to grapple with the implications of AI models, and what correlations they find and make use of.  If the public discussion of the regulation of AI models will hinge on the argument that data scientists are stupid and have no understanding of correlations and what they imply, then it's not going to be a very productive public discussion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 04, 2020, 02:20:17 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 04, 2020, 02:04:16 PM
I guess one of the issue is that these society-wide preconceptions tend to become self-fulfilling to some degree. e.g. gypsies have been forcibly kept as a lower class and to this day they have shitty chances getting jobs and proper education. Of course a lot of them end up on the very bottom of society in abject poverty. Of course a disproportionate number of them end up committing petty crimes. Which also means that most interaction between gypsies and whites is in that context (because they are shunned out of other social interactions like workplaces etc), which then means that the stereotypes get reinforced which gets in the way of change etc.

Doesnt help too that when they do decide to get a normal job and live in a house you can know them for years and never know they're gypsies.
One of my parents neighbours is a traveller. The only clue is he has a caravan on the drive but then so do my parents. My dad only found out years after living near him when he brought it up one day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:21:15 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 04, 2020, 02:04:16 PM
I guess one of the issue is that these society-wide preconceptions tend to become self-fulfilling to some degree. e.g. gypsies have been forcibly kept as a lower class and to this day they have shitty chances getting jobs and proper education.
This is exactly a second valid argument against statistically-justified discrimination (as opposed to the "statisticians don't understand correlations", which is not).  The first argument is that it's just immoral, and frankly that should be enough.  But if you find it not enough to base policy just on moral concepts, then the pragmatic downside of discrimination is that it self-perpetuates the differences you're acting on.  If you deny people economic opportunities because they're statistically higher risks, then you'll be denying them the opportunity to improve their lot and become a lesser statistical risk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 02:31:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Some discrimination, including pregnancy discrimination, is just immoral and should be illegal because of that.

Why is this immoral?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 02:33:00 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:21:15 PM
But if you find it not enough to base policy just on moral concepts, then the pragmatic downside of discrimination is that it self-perpetuates the differences you're acting on.  If you deny people economic opportunities because they're statistically higher risks, then you'll be denying them the opportunity to improve their lot and become a lesser statistical risk.

This is based on the premise that socioeconomic status is deterministic of bad behavior,  and that bad behavior is not a choice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:42:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 02:31:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Some discrimination, including pregnancy discrimination, is just immoral and should be illegal because of that.

Why is this immoral?
Because as society we decided that women should not have their career impacted more than biology requires due to the fact that they're the ones biology chose to carry out pregnancies. 

Yes, I know that "because we said so" is often not a convincing argument, which is why people perform sexual assault on statistics to shore up their case, but really, I think the more productive avenue is to be comfortable with sticking to your moral values without having to reduce them to mathematical theorems.  If your moral values don't come at some cost, then the concept of morality is redundant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 03:24:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 02:31:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Some discrimination, including pregnancy discrimination, is just immoral and should be illegal because of that.

Why is this immoral?

Personally, I think it's immoral to expect the other parent to go back to work after just a couple of days. They, like the birth parent, should have a full 6-8 weeks of time to get to know and care for their new child.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 04, 2020, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 03:24:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 02:31:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Some discrimination, including pregnancy discrimination, is just immoral and should be illegal because of that.

Why is this immoral?

Personally, I think it's immoral to expect the other parent to go back to work after just a couple of days. They, like the birth parent, should have a full 6-8 weeks of time to get to know and care for their new child.

6-8 weeks sounds like barbarism. But whatever floats your boat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2020, 04:56:13 PM
Paid leave for pregnancy discriminates against non-parents and against part-time, ineligible workers. We should probably set aside the morality question and focus on practicality.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on October 04, 2020, 05:15:07 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 12:50:50 PM

This is getting dangerously close to "why would you hire a young woman when there's a not-insignificant chance that she'll go out on maternity leave in the next two-to-five years".
Yes, it is dangerously close,

I actually think it is exactly the same.

Take auto insurance rates. Let AI determine the factors to consider and determine the most efficient rate to charge. Currently things like age, gender, accident history, violation history, place of residence, educational attributes, type of vehicle (including color) and credit score can be used (depending on the jurisdiction).

If you take the law out of it, you could probably also get valuable data out of race, national origin, place of birth, religion, and probably other factors we don't consider acceptable. Maybe even medical statuses such as whether the person is pregnant.

It is somewhat arbitrary regarding what is allowed, and it is entirely dependent on what society accepts. I may be a terrible driver, but because I'm middle aged I get a discount on my auto insurance. If we removed law from the equation, and immigrants from India have accidents at twice the rate of those from Africa, theoretically those from India would get charged a higher rate versus those from Africa.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2020, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2020, 04:56:13 PM
Paid leave for pregnancy discriminates against non-parents and against part-time, ineligible workers. We should probably set aside the morality question and focus on practicality.


Nah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2020, 08:39:52 PM
Oh sure, let the upper middle class continue to feel entitled to their perks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2020, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2020, 08:39:52 PM
Oh sure, let the upper middle class continue to feel entitled to their perks.

So the fact that poorer people cannot get the benefit means that it is just a perk for the upper middle class?  Kinda like decent food or decent housing?

I notice that the people who moan about maternity leave scream about estate taxes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on October 07, 2020, 12:12:03 AM
https://m.facebook.com/EditorialCartoons/photos/a.317843708280857/3490518844346645/?type=3&source=44&ref=m_notif&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 07, 2020, 11:17:14 AM
A 9 months pregnant lady was thrown face first to the ground by Kansas City police and the arresting police officer knelt on her back while she was down.

Now, I don't know if the arrest was justified or not. That said, there must be a way without physically abusing a heavily pregnant woman like this.

Or, as my sister says:

QuoteThe person to blame for her situation is her herself. If she would have listened to the police and stay away she would be free.....but no she just couldn't keep her mouth shut and stay out of the police's way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 07, 2020, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 03:24:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 02:31:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Some discrimination, including pregnancy discrimination, is just immoral and should be illegal because of that.

Why is this immoral?

Personally, I think it's immoral to expect the other parent to go back to work after just a couple of days. They, like the birth parent, should have a full 6-8 weeks of time to get to know and care for their new child.
or 12-18 months, just enough to wreak havok on the SMBs that depend on these employees.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 07, 2020, 11:54:56 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 07, 2020, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 03:24:43 PM
Personally, I think it's immoral to expect the other parent to go back to work after just a couple of days. They, like the birth parent, should have a full 6-8 weeks of time to get to know and care for their new child.
or 12-18 months, just enough to wreak havok on the SMBs that depend on these employees.

12-18 months is considerably different than 12 weeks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2020, 12:08:47 AM
There should be plenty of notice beforehand for the employer to deal with any problems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 08, 2020, 01:55:01 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2020, 12:08:47 AM
There should be plenty of notice beforehand for the employer to deal with any problems.

Plenty of notice that an employee will need to go on mat leave?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 08, 2020, 02:18:50 AM
Dunno about other countries, but over here he expectation is that the employer is informed as soon as the employee knows about the pregnancy, so that preparations can be made (12 months absence is common, and you see many job ads looking for people to fill maternity positions temporarily).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 08, 2020, 03:04:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 08, 2020, 02:18:50 AM
Dunno about other countries, but over here he expectation is that the employer is informed as soon as the employee knows about the pregnancy, so that preparations can be made (12 months absence is common, and you see many job ads looking for people to fill maternity positions temporarily).

So then their employer gets to also easily be aware in case of miscarriage?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 08, 2020, 04:56:37 AM
I've not encountered such a case in the past 20 years, but I suppose yes?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 08, 2020, 05:34:46 AM
Seems awful given that couples often wait before even telling friends and family.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 08, 2020, 05:38:01 AM
I think 28 weeks or something like so is when you legally have to tell.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 08, 2020, 05:39:24 AM
Tbf, there's knowing and there's "knowing", in practice the women I've known have waited till they were 100% sure the pregnancy would "stick" before informing the company.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2020, 07:14:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 08, 2020, 01:55:01 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2020, 12:08:47 AM
There should be plenty of notice beforehand for the employer to deal with any problems.

Plenty of notice that an employee will need to go on mat leave?

Would be more notice than people leaving the company give, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on October 08, 2020, 09:32:45 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 07, 2020, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 04, 2020, 03:24:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 04, 2020, 02:31:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2020, 02:17:36 PM
Some discrimination, including pregnancy discrimination, is just immoral and should be illegal because of that.

Why is this immoral?

Personally, I think it's immoral to expect the other parent to go back to work after just a couple of days. They, like the birth parent, should have a full 6-8 weeks of time to get to know and care for their new child.
or 12-18 months, just enough to wreak havok on the SMBs that depend on these employees.

You know, our system is a maximum of 50 weeks for women.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 08, 2020, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 08, 2020, 05:39:24 AM
Tbf, there's knowing and there's "knowing", in practice the women I've known have waited till they were 100% sure the pregnancy would "stick" before informing the company.

I have never in my life encountered someone who used the word "stick" in that manner.  I would suggest you not use that phrase either.

Mrs B and I lost a child due to an early miscarriage in between kid #1 and #2.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 08, 2020, 10:02:37 AM
I'm sorry, Beeb, didn't mean any disrespect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 08, 2020, 10:20:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 08, 2020, 10:02:37 AM
I'm sorry, Beeb, didn't mean any disrespect.

I know you didn't. :hug:

It's just so funny to think about.  What would that little baby have grown up to be like if he/she had made it?  But also Mrs B got pregnant again one month later, so if that baby had made it kid #2 Andrew wouldn't be with us.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 08, 2020, 12:08:39 PM
In a certain way, "stick" is not such a terrible choice of words, even if it's not exactly a precise medical term or might seem insensitive, as many of these early pregnancies that fail are due to the embryo not being able to properly attach itself to the uterine wall in the first few months. This is a relatively common occurence, I myself I'm a "2nd try" baby, so to speak, as my mom lost a prior pregnancy in the 2nd or 3rd month, and shortly afterwards became pregnant with me. This is also apparently a pretty common thing, according to my mom, as the procedure that women have to undergo after such a failed pregnancy leaves them quite susceptible to quickly becoming pregnant again. In fact a friend of mine who also lost her first pregnancy became pregnant with her first child less than a year afterwards and went on to have two more kids with no issue at all.

What I mean is, this is not uncommon, and although it is of course regrettable and a source of grief for the parents, it can be easily overcome.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 08, 2020, 12:36:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 08, 2020, 05:39:24 AM
Tbf, there's knowing and there's "knowing", in practice the women I've known have waited till they were 100% sure the pregnancy would "stick" before informing the company.

:mellow:

Um... I lost my son at 20 weeks. There is no "sticking" for pregnancy. Every one is a risk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 08, 2020, 01:11:01 PM
Iirc it's something like 50% die in the first 3 months. After that it's pretty high chances of survivability with a long tail as week by week the risk decreases
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 08, 2020, 01:12:59 PM
And then after the baby is born, there is still a chance they might just die in their sleep during their first six months of life like my nephew :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on October 08, 2020, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 08, 2020, 01:11:01 PM
Iirc it's something like 50% die in the first 3 months. After that it's pretty high chances of survivability with a long tail as week by week the risk decreases

Depends on the mother's age.

Up to age 35, 30% of pregnancies end in the first six weeks. After 35, it can be up to 75%. All pregnancies have up to a 10% chance at miscarriage from six to 13 weeks. After that, it's 5% across the board regardless of the mother's age until she actually gives birth. But 5% is no joke. That's 1 in 20 pregnancies ending in miscarriage.

I don't know what the legal requirement here is regarding pregnancies and letting an employer know. I do know that it's not required to tell anyone during the hiring process, nor is it legal for a potential employer to ask. In fact, a woman can claim FMLA and never tell her employer that she was pregnant nor had a baby, and the company can't ask her why she's on FMLA so long as a doctor has signed the appropriate paperwork.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 08, 2020, 04:02:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 08, 2020, 01:12:59 PM
And then after the baby is born, there is still a chance they might just die in their sleep during their first six months of life like my nephew :weep:
damn, that's terrible.  :(   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 09, 2020, 09:20:30 AM
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f84/15/65/04/57/12115310.jpg)

Out of the hospital after a bleach treatment, Donald Trump says he's ready to "save the Republic"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 25, 2020, 01:19:40 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/122407542_4157013944313761_4275769434621310314_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=X8TX-yJszd4AX-IGpF-&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=c5cb52a1670f08289c25d4ff9509fd6c&oe=5FBCA6D8)

QuoteThis is what they will have to do to stop me from talking.

It's from another source this time, not the ™Brown Eye™ but an alternative/anti-vaccine FB meme source/feed etc..
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 25, 2020, 01:31:39 PM
Somebody's missing. :yeahright:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 25, 2020, 01:48:49 PM
Maybe it's fox news they're shooting for crimes against truth?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 28, 2020, 09:53:43 PM
Fox News isn't there because they could never find the truth or recognize it in the first place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 29, 2020, 07:54:32 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 28, 2020, 09:53:43 PM
Fox News isn't there because they could never find the truth or recognize it in the first place.

Fox would never get that close to the truth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 04, 2020, 08:30:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 20, 2020, 02:53:11 PM
I'm friends with a girl I went to Middle school (and High School) with on Facebook.  I admit, I had a crush on her in the 8th grade or maybe in the 7th.  She posted a video of herself talking about how God spoke to her and informed her about why the highest point of a tree is the middle.  And I'm thinking, "Damn, and she called me crazy".


So, I think she unfriended me because I told her that the FBI considers Qanon a threat .  I hadn't seen anything she wrote for a while, so I was curious and checked her profile.  Sure enough, she unfriended me (in her defense I am an obnoxious person that few people like).  She's also gone completely bonkers.  She keeps posting 10 minute monologues about what God is telling her. Weird things like God told her to write the word "Casablanca" on facebook or stating that God was waging "spiritual warfare" in her mind for two days before telling her about some rising evil.  Several seem to be prophetic dreams that make no sense to me.  Like a mall that became flooded and giant evil balloons rise out of the water.  I don't know what that is suppose to predict.  Sometimes she cries in these monologues.

She had been religious in high school, but really sounds like a mental illness.  I feel bad for her, but I'm not exactly in a position to do anything.  If she wanted my help, she'd have asked for it.  Still it's sad to see an old friend become deranged.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 04, 2020, 10:25:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 04, 2020, 08:30:34 PM
(in her defense I am an obnoxious person that few people like). 
Really?  How do you figure that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on November 04, 2020, 11:02:07 PM
Didn't you know? We held a vote.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on November 05, 2020, 12:14:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 04, 2020, 08:30:34 PM
(in her defense I am an obnoxious person that few people like)

I like you. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2020, 12:18:38 AM
I always thought Missourians were supposed to be friendly but yet so few like Raz :(

I like you Raz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 05, 2020, 12:35:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 05, 2020, 12:18:38 AM
I always thought Missourians were supposed to be friendly

I thought they were renowned skeptics.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 05, 2020, 06:36:15 AM
Well, I'm not going to check up on here anymore.  That would be stalking.  I was just curious where she went.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2020, 03:47:53 PM
So the last few weeks I've stayed away from Facebook, but curiosity got the better today. I think I'm done again for now. This is from my middle sister, today and yesterday.

(https://i.postimg.cc/DftRHfky/sca.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZY91wBQM/acb.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/X7dtbM4K/aca.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/J0JYMJV7/ac9.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vHFSXPf4/ac7.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2jBKQpbp/ac6.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vmqNzbty/ac5.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/43N0Vmtw/ac4.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rmDYZ3fr/ac3.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0QhXTn4H/ac2.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WbGYyMwX/ac1.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0yvF5tyT/ac8.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 05, 2020, 04:04:59 PM
I see they found grumbler's grandson.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on November 05, 2020, 05:25:30 PM
(https://scontent.fyhu2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123771934_2736285316624739_910489921784845568_n.png?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ZhFFINy_ObkAX9p4rRV&_nc_ht=scontent.fyhu2-1.fna&oh=d838bbd4b212aa6af38229c6fa1b1857&oe=5FC9AA45)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2020, 01:11:23 AM
QuoteOh yes...
Let me be clear, I am not a Biden fan at all. He is corrupt, a liar, suffering from dementia and in my opinion a pedophile. He has done nothing to improve anything in 47/48 years in politics.
I truly believe Biden is just the stepping stone for Kamala Harris to take over the White House. Nancy Pelosi is already trying to put a 25th amendment in place to remove an unfit president. I don't believe that has a thing to do with Trump having Covid. I think that's to remove Biden if elected for dementia and Harris to take over.
This is my opinion so don't bother to bash it, I haven't bashed yours.
The clown in the White House just brokered two Middle East Peace Accords, something that 71 years of political intervention and endless war failed to produce.
The buffoon in the White House is the first president that has not engaged us in a foreign war since Eisenhower.
The clown in the White House has had the greatest impact on the economy, bringing jobs, and lowering unemployment to the Black and Latino population of ANY other president. Ever.
The buffoon in the White House has exposed the deep, widespread, and long-standing corruption in the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and the Republican and Democratic parties.
The buffoon in the White House turned NATO around and had them start paying their dues.
The clown in the White House neutralized the North Koreans, stopped them from developing a further nuclear capability, sending missiles toward Japan, and threatening the West Coast of the US.
The clown in the White House turned our relationship with the Chinese around, brought hundreds of business back to the US, and revived the economy. Hello!!!!!!!
The clown in the White House has accomplished the appointing of three Supreme Court Justices and close to 300 Federal Judges.
This same clown in the White House lowered your taxes, increased the standard deduction on your IRS return from $12,500 for Married Filing Joint to $24,400  and caused your stock market to move to record levels over 100 times, positively impacting the retirements of tens of millions of citizens.
The clown in the White House fast-tracked the development of a COVID Vaccine - it will be available within weeks - we still don't have a vaccine for SARS, Bird Flu, Ebola, or a host of diseases that arose during previous administrations.
The clown in the White House rebuilt our military which the Obama administration had crippled and had fired 214 key generals and admirals in his first year of office.
This clown in the White House uncovered widespread pedophilia in the government and in Hollywood, and is exposing world wide sex trafficking of minors and bringing children home to their families.
The clown in the White House works for free and has lost well over 2 billion dollars of his own money in serving - and done all of this and much more in the face of relentless undermining and opposition from people who are threatened because they know they are going to be exposed as the criminals that they are if he is re-elected.
I got it, you don't like him. Many of you utterly hate and despise him. How special of you. He is serving you and ALL the American people. What are you doing besides calling him names and laughing about him catching the China virus ?????
And please educate me again as to what Biden has accomplished for America in his 47 years in office?
I'll take a 'clown' any day versus a fork tongued, smooth talking hypocritical corrupt liar. Please let it be known, I am not sure I would want to have a beer with him (if he drank, which he doesn't) or even be his friend. I don't care if I even like him. I want a strong leader who isn't afraid to kick some ass when needed. I don't need a fatherly figure - I already have one. I don't need a liar - that's what Hollywood and CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS and the New York Times are for.
I don't need someone to help me, but I also don't want an obstacle or a demented, senile washed-up Swamp Monster.
God bless Donald Trump - the most unappreciated President in history.
This is my FB page. If you don't like it keep scrolling. I do not comment on your pages about your political likes and dislikes but today is my day to show my support for MY choice!!   
Copy & Pass this on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on November 06, 2020, 01:15:30 AM
Heh, yeah I had someone in my friend list with same bs post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 06, 2020, 03:36:26 AM
They seem big on repeating this point about Biden doing nothing in 47 years.
Yet in the next breath will rant about how awful Obama was.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2020, 03:42:38 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 06, 2020, 03:36:26 AM
They seem big on repeating this point about Biden doing nothing in 47 years.
Yet in the next breath will rant about how awful Obama was.

It's the paradox of the "do nothing democrats" (Trump) actively destroying America.

It's like the foreigner who simultaneously steals jobs AND abuses the welfare system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2020, 08:36:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2020, 03:42:38 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 06, 2020, 03:36:26 AM
They seem big on repeating this point about Biden doing nothing in 47 years.
Yet in the next breath will rant about how awful Obama was.

It's the paradox of the "do nothing democrats" (Trump) actively destroying America.

It's like the foreigner who simultaneously steals jobs AND abuses the welfare system.

Or the Jews who are both the plutocrats running world capitalism and a bunch of commie subversives. 😀
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on November 06, 2020, 09:15:51 PM
What can I say, you guys really know how to multitask!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2020, 09:20:37 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2020, 08:36:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2020, 03:42:38 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 06, 2020, 03:36:26 AM
They seem big on repeating this point about Biden doing nothing in 47 years.
Yet in the next breath will rant about how awful Obama was.

It's the paradox of the "do nothing democrats" (Trump) actively destroying America.

It's like the foreigner who simultaneously steals jobs AND abuses the welfare system.

Or the Jews who are both the plutocrats running world capitalism and a bunch of commie subversives. 😀

You mean like Marx and Rothschild?   :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2020, 09:32:10 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2020, 09:20:37 PM
You mean like Marx and Rothschild?   :P

Maybe Marx wrote Das Kapital because he was a self-hating Jew.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 06, 2020, 09:34:07 PM
I suspect more than one religion included, among it members, bankers and socialists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Personally, I love the fact that Jew haters think we run everything. It's complete bullshit of course, but very ... empowering. 😄
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on November 06, 2020, 09:45:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Personally, I love the fact that Jew haters think we run everything. It's complete bullshit of course, but very ... empowering. 😄
of course you deny it  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 06, 2020, 09:46:51 PM
Quote from: katmai on November 06, 2020, 09:45:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Personally, I love the fact that Jew haters think we run everything. It's complete bullshit of course, but very ... empowering. 😄
of course you deny it  :rolleyes:

Well, I don't want the Elders to be angry. No-one wants that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 06, 2020, 09:52:17 PM
The biggest flaw in the theory that Jews run everything is the assumption that it's possible for a group of more than two Jews to have an agreement on anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 07, 2020, 05:18:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2020, 09:32:10 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2020, 09:20:37 PM
You mean like Marx and Rothschild?   :P

Maybe Marx wrote Das Kapital because he was a self-hating Jew.  :hmm:

I thought the self-hating work was On the Jewish question?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 07, 2020, 09:19:20 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Personally, I love the fact that Jew haters think we run everything. It's complete bullshit of course, but very ... empowering. 😄
I'm kind of surprised more haven't cottened on to a fugu plan kind of approach.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2020, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 07, 2020, 09:19:20 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Personally, I love the fact that Jew haters think we run everything. It's complete bullshit of course, but very ... empowering. 😄
I'm kind of surprised more haven't cottened on to a fugu plan kind of approach.

To start eating poison fish?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on November 07, 2020, 04:37:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2020, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 07, 2020, 09:19:20 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 06, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Personally, I love the fact that Jew haters think we run everything. It's complete bullshit of course, but very ... empowering. 😄
I'm kind of surprised more haven't cottened on to a fugu plan kind of approach.

To start eating poison fish?

A plan we can all get behind!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 08, 2020, 11:01:32 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124460051_10215528102150471_1714863799053123376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Wx2win4fHOkAX9dmq5i&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=89c17d4b970b840daee2814ea95521ea&oe=5FCBCDC8)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123918983_2562184757405517_3436862731754782733_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=EkioixFscVcAX_ZjjSW&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6e58d3c357e7d1665a4c6ecc2c4e267f&oe=5FCDA365)


(https://i.postimg.cc/yxPyJL91/dah.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 08, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/wait_just_a_minute_some_very_good_news_may_be_coming.html?fbclid=IwAR26gVkZ1da0wrmcAKGyHyYLXeDy13D8JdiZ-DvvvQQuAbdmHWwPwa973sM

QuoteWait Just a Minute! Some Very Good News May Be Coming

Like many, I spent the last few nights waking up at 2:03 A.M., no reason, then looking at my phone for news, any news, that might be positive for President Trump.  I survived on Rush, Bongino, Mark Levin.  When the news continued to be ugly, I even checked in on ridiculous bloggers promising that ballots were watermarked and D.J. (our household name for a president we love) was actually launching a sting on the Deep State.

Enough already.  Stop the madness. 

Hey, I have a degree in statistics, and I have some level of critical thought.  If there is such pessimism in my tribe, I am not going along.

So today, I started to dig into the numbers, and as I did, I fought my confirmation bias at every step. 

I realized that I, like millions of others, had been numbed into despondency by the overwhelming press, media, social media push to certify President-Elect Biden.  (I put that in there so you can see how repellent it is.)

Hey guys, this thing is not only not over; it is scary for Biden.  I mean really scary, and most of all, the media know it.  Thus, the rush to get everyone in line with the narrative that a 78-year-old, early-dementia former V.P., who could not draw a crowd larger than a dozen, just beat D.J. in a fair election.

Process that for a moment.

Start with Pennsylvania.  Biden, as of this writing, is at 290 electoral votes.  Pennsylvania is 20.

I read the Justice Alito opinion, and it is pretty clear that he wants the after election night at 8:00 P.M. votes separated for a reason.  Biden is going to lose at the Supreme Court, and they know it.  Four justices already said the Pennsylvania Supreme Court cannot adjust voting rules.   A new arrival, Justice Barrett, says she is there to apply the rules in the Constitution.  OK, wanna bet she does?

Remove the after 8:00 P.M. ballots, and Biden loses Pennsylvania.  Biden 270.

Let's visit Nevada.  I have lots of friends in California who have condos in Nevada to evade state taxes.  There are not a couple of people doing this; there are tens of thousands.  Everyone knows it, and California seeks them out.

Our old pal Harry Reid knows it as well, and he apparently has them voting in droves in this election.  Probably not a big D.J. constituency.  Within 72 hours of the election, the Trump team found, validated over 3,500 of them.  I do not suspect that Trump's people stopped counting.

Every one of these is a ballot reduction for Biden

Nevada, as of now, is well within reach for DJ and the Trump team — particularly when the California crowd is reduced.  And a few of them may testify since a false vote is a very bad thing, with jail time if convicted.  Maybe a bigger story here.

Remember where we are, people.  Biden is at 270 after a highly probable Supreme Court decision (read Alito and concurring opinions).

Lose Nevada, lose the election.

But wait: it gets better.

Let's visit Wisconsin.  Right now, it is 20,000 votes in Uncle Joe's direction.  Lots of stories out there, well below the Google fold, that there are way more Wisconsin votes than there are registered voters.  OK, maybe the dead can vote up there — probably a Midwest thing.

Well, last night, we found that Wisconsin election clerks were told, and followed the direction, to modify mail-in ballots and fill in the blanks where witnesses left out critical info.

I am sure it was just a good customer service thing and they meant no harm.  The problem is every such ballot is now toast.

There were "thousands" of such prima facie wrongful votes.  Oops.  Biden up 20,000 — now that number is in question.  No more truckloads of votes coming in, so every ballot D.J.'s team eliminates gets President-Elect Biden on step closer to former V.P. Biden who lives in a basement.  Not good here.

North Carolina.  That one pretty much looks like as though it is over and D.J. won it.  Fox News is rumored to call it for Trump around April 2021.

Remember where we are here.  Biden is probably going to lose Pennsylvania, so if he loses even one state, even one Electoral College vote, ouch!

Either D.J. wins outright, or it goes to the House, which means that D.J. has four more years.

We're not done yet.

Michigan.  Oh, yes, the land of the "glitches" in the voting machines.  Six thousand votes for Trump given to Biden in one of 47 counties where that software is used.  About 150,000 votes in Biden's favor right now. 

Google the 130,000 Biden votes that showed up in the middle of the night, and you can see how the wonderful people at Google are fact-checking this "debunked" story.  In fact, for fun, Google "Michigan voter fraud," and you get literally three pages of "this was fact checked and proven to be false."  Why would Google be so assiduous?

They too see that if Amy votes with the four, Biden is one vote away from the basement.

Lawsuits in Michigan and the other states are being launched, and discovery will take place.  Google will not be there. 

Voter fraud is kind of like larceny.  A little is OK.  It is even kind of entertaining.

Dead people have been voting for a hundred years in Democratic cities.  It is such a constant that one would think the Republican Party would consider a Dead Voter Outreach program to get their share.

But voter fraud on this scale is just not sustainable.  It does not pass the common sense test.

We have bloggers with lots of time on their hands going through voter rolls and showing that person after person who voted in a swing state also fought in the Civil War or maybe the War of 1812.  It was funny at first, but the overwhelming number now goes beyond humor and rubs our faces in it.

I think D.J. has to swing one state.  Actually, one electoral vote.  Not only is this thing not over, but the Biden team must be sweating bullets.

Voter fraud at scale seemed like a really cool idea until D.J. went to the mattresses.  Now that he is fighting it out one voter at a time, with the Supreme Court likely to create the starting point at Biden 270, Biden has everything to lose.

Perk up!

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 08, 2020, 04:04:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2020, 09:32:10 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2020, 09:20:37 PM
You mean like Marx and Rothschild?   :P

Maybe Marx wrote Das Kapital because he was a self-hating Jew.  :hmm:

Hmm he *was* a self-hating Jew ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 08, 2020, 04:10:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 08, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/wait_just_a_minute_some_very_good_news_may_be_coming.html?fbclid=IwAR26gVkZ1da0wrmcAKGyHyYLXeDy13D8JdiZ-DvvvQQuAbdmHWwPwa973sM

QuoteLike many, I spent the last few nights waking up at 2:03 A.M., no reason,  . . . I survived on Rush, Bongino, Mark Levin. . ..and I have some level of critical thought. 

Eh sorry the evidence strongly indicates otherwise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: fromtia on November 08, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
People I know on facebook are certain, of course that the election is a sham, the more moderate Republicans are looking forward to Trump TV, now that Fox is biased, and one former colleague is advocating for a Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens ticket in 24. Facebook really is an extraordinary place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on November 08, 2020, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: fromtia on November 08, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
People I know on facebook are certain, of course that the election is a sham, the more moderate Republicans are looking forward to Trump TV, now that Fox is biased, and one former colleague is advocating for a Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens ticket in 24. Facebook really is an extraordinary place.

Then when they lose in the conservative USSC, they go to their fallback position....The Deep State.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2020, 12:53:27 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/124217560_10223898591070978_4066006288184677160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=oFVvvNiIutIAX8Jh6Bq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e3c7c3ebab2e2731c547bed1c5ad9951&oe=5FCF80C2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 09, 2020, 04:40:20 AM
Oh the irony is hilarious  :lol: Wow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 09, 2020, 04:56:53 AM
His hands would be in a different place  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on November 09, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2020, 04:40:20 AM
Oh the irony is hilarious  :lol: Wow.

That's what I don't get. See, I can understand (not approve) two kind of trumpists:

a) The FUCK YOU LIBERALS crowd.
b) The "Trump is a disgusting human but it gives me 6 conservative justices and loads of conservative federal judges" crowd.

But this "Trump is a good man that cares for the country and others" malarkey? Who's *that* delusional to actually believe that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 09, 2020, 05:04:27 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 09, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2020, 04:40:20 AM
Oh the irony is hilarious  :lol: Wow.

That's what I don't get. See, I can understand (not approve) two kind of trumpists:

a) The FUCK YOU LIBERALS crowd.
b) The "Trump is a disgusting human but it gives me 6 conservative justices and loads of conservative federal judges" crowd.

But this "Trump is a good man that cares for the country and others" malarkey? Who's *that* delusional to actually believe that?

I think nobody. But they feel loyalty requires public showing of such attitudes. Much like going to Church despite being a deplorable petty little shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 09, 2020, 05:35:00 AM
Not all churches are as bad as the Catholic church.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 09, 2020, 06:45:01 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 09, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2020, 04:40:20 AM
Oh the irony is hilarious  :lol: Wow.

That's what I don't get. See, I can understand (not approve) two kind of trumpists:

a) The FUCK YOU LIBERALS crowd.
b) The "Trump is a disgusting human but it gives me 6 conservative justices and loads of conservative federal judges" crowd.

But this "Trump is a good man that cares for the country and others" malarkey? Who's *that* delusional to actually believe that?


A lot of people.  Part of it is cognitive dissonance and other part is because any thing bad about Trump is fake news.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 09, 2020, 07:08:27 AM
I think we constantly underestimates how much some people put stock into what the president says. We've seen countless idiots telling us that Trump did a lot of things for them in his 4 years because he told them he did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2020, 07:40:34 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 09, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
That's what I don't get. See, I can understand (not approve) two kind of trumpists:

a) The FUCK YOU LIBERALS crowd.
b) The "Trump is a disgusting human but it gives me 6 conservative justices and loads of conservative federal judges" crowd.

But this "Trump is a good man that cares for the country and others" malarkey? Who's *that* delusional to actually believe that?

The white supremist who believes in the virtue of his cause.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 09, 2020, 07:45:42 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 09, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2020, 04:40:20 AM
Oh the irony is hilarious  :lol: Wow.

That's what I don't get. See, I can understand (not approve) two kind of trumpists:

a) The FUCK YOU LIBERALS crowd.
b) The "Trump is a disgusting human but it gives me 6 conservative justices and loads of conservative federal judges" crowd.

But this "Trump is a good man that cares for the country and others" malarkey? Who's *that* delusional to actually believe that?
:yes:

Its always the same though.
With brexit for instance I understood the trigger teh libs crowd and the neo-libs.
Then there was the great mass of people who were brainwashed to believe the nonsense about 350 million a week miraculously being freed up for lovely things, schrodingers immigrant, etc....

There's a lot of people out there whose brains are fundamentally broken. They don't just have a different view on the way the world should be, they don't grasp what the world even is. Its not without reason that there tends to be a huge correlation between education and sane views.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 09, 2020, 10:00:08 AM
Some good examples of a lack of critical thinking in this article :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/07/covid-liverpool-britain-inequality-poorer-regions

"The internet, that unreliable friend, has slid into this vacuum. "I just read that 25,000 people die every year from the flu, and we don't have a lockdown for that, do we?", said an irritable man to his wife in the coffee shop queue just after 9am on Monday, idly watching two slightly younger, even more irritable men start fighting outside. "Where did you see that?," she responded. "I dunno, some fella on the internet."

Returning with my kids from a half-term trip into the centre of town last week, the taxi driver informed us of Donald Trump's efforts to "do something about those child traffickers". I asked where he'd heard about this, recognising the reference as a QAnon trope. "I saw this video on YouTube. I mean, you can love him or hate him, but he gets the job done. We could do with some of that over here.""

I think we can all shelve our critical thinking at times; the concern is that many, perhaps a majority, have no real way of exerting critical thinking as they wade through a morass of garbage on the internet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 09, 2020, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 09, 2020, 10:00:08 AM
Some good examples of a lack of critical thinking in this article :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/07/covid-liverpool-britain-inequality-poorer-regions

"The internet, that unreliable friend, has slid into this vacuum. "I just read that 25,000 people die every year from the flu, and we don't have a lockdown for that, do we?", said an irritable man to his wife in the coffee shop queue just after 9am on Monday, idly watching two slightly younger, even more irritable men start fighting outside. "Where did you see that?," she responded. "I dunno, some fella on the internet."

Returning with my kids from a half-term trip into the centre of town last week, the taxi driver informed us of Donald Trump's efforts to "do something about those child traffickers". I asked where he'd heard about this, recognising the reference as a QAnon trope. "I saw this video on YouTube. I mean, you can love him or hate him, but he gets the job done. We could do with some of that over here.""

I think we can all shelve our critical thinking at times; the concern is that many, perhaps a majority, have no real way of exerting critical thinking as they wade through a morass of garbage on the internet.

Such views are astonishing. He absolutely did nothing apart from bullying people who could not fight back.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 09, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
As I often say, many people enjoy living in a fantasy world. They genuinely prefer it to the real one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 09, 2020, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 09, 2020, 10:00:08 AM
Some good examples of a lack of critical thinking in this article :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/07/covid-liverpool-britain-inequality-poorer-regions

"The internet, that unreliable friend, has slid into this vacuum. "I just read that 25,000 people die every year from the flu, and we don't have a lockdown for that, do we?", said an irritable man to his wife in the coffee shop queue just after 9am on Monday, idly watching two slightly younger, even more irritable men start fighting outside. "Where did you see that?," she responded. "I dunno, some fella on the internet."

Returning with my kids from a half-term trip into the centre of town last week, the taxi driver informed us of Donald Trump's efforts to "do something about those child traffickers". I asked where he'd heard about this, recognising the reference as a QAnon trope. "I saw this video on YouTube. I mean, you can love him or hate him, but he gets the job done. We could do with some of that over here.""

I think we can all shelve our critical thinking at times; the concern is that many, perhaps a majority, have no real way of exerting critical thinking as they wade through a morass of garbage on the internet.

I've heard this all too often about Farage "He's the only politician who tells it like it is!"
No he doesn't. He's one of the least truthful politicians out there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2020, 12:25:20 PM
How my middle sister feels:

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZ3SpSB7/sent.jpg)


Addendum - my oldest sister's mood (she shared this post from someone else):

(https://i.postimg.cc/sf6CkkKw/ols.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 09, 2020, 12:56:32 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2020, 01:28:39 PM
They're clearly in the "anger" stage of dealing with the election results.

(the fraud allegations would count as "denial", I suppose?)

:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2020, 03:08:17 PM
P.S.:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15000754_10209137766354318_6138606433827252984_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=7choZYT9P9kAX-xiNBT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=24cf0f525324e929cdea0f025d954deb&oe=5FCFBDD0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on November 09, 2020, 06:18:03 PM
Sorry, not when you're spouting batshit crazy stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on November 09, 2020, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: celedhring on November 09, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2020, 04:40:20 AM
Oh the irony is hilarious  :lol: Wow.

That's what I don't get. See, I can understand (not approve) two kind of trumpists:

a) The FUCK YOU LIBERALS crowd.
b) The "Trump is a disgusting human but it gives me 6 conservative justices and loads of conservative federal judges" crowd.

But this "Trump is a good man that cares for the country and others" malarkey? Who's *that* delusional to actually believe that?

My aunt :glare:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on November 09, 2020, 08:55:51 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 09, 2020, 10:00:08 AM
Some good examples of a lack of critical thinking in this article :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/07/covid-liverpool-britain-inequality-poorer-regions

"The internet, that unreliable friend, has slid into this vacuum. "I just read that 25,000 people die every year from the flu, and we don't have a lockdown for that, do we?", said an irritable man to his wife in the coffee shop queue just after 9am on Monday, idly watching two slightly younger, even more irritable men start fighting outside. "Where did you see that?," she responded. "I dunno, some fella on the internet."

Returning with my kids from a half-term trip into the centre of town last week, the taxi driver informed us of Donald Trump's efforts to "do something about those child traffickers". I asked where he'd heard about this, recognising the reference as a QAnon trope. "I saw this video on YouTube. I mean, you can love him or hate him, but he gets the job done. We could do with some of that over here.""

I think we can all shelve our critical thinking at times; the concern is that many, perhaps a majority, have no real way of exerting critical thinking as they wade through a morass of garbage on the internet.

:yes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 10, 2020, 05:39:44 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 09, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 09, 2020, 04:40:20 AM
Oh the irony is hilarious  :lol: Wow.

That's what I don't get. See, I can understand (not approve) two kind of trumpists:

a) The FUCK YOU LIBERALS crowd.
b) The "Trump is a disgusting human but it gives me 6 conservative justices and loads of conservative federal judges" crowd.

But this "Trump is a good man that cares for the country and others" malarkey? Who's *that* delusional to actually believe that?

Isn't the basis for QAnon that Trump is fighting a secret war against evil pedophile celebrities? If you're deluded enough to believe that, believing the cartoon is a much lower bar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 10, 2020, 05:47:36 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/VSK5gLV/124266890-208438913976492-4953888312737573830-o.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 11, 2020, 02:02:32 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RNFHzrH/dwi.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 11, 2020, 02:14:48 AM
I mean a few thousand did.

But tens of millions voted for Biden. So there is that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on November 12, 2020, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 11, 2020, 02:02:32 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RNFHzrH/dwi.jpg)

Um... I don't think that's in the US. :unsure:

EDIT:
Yes, yes it is.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/donald-trump-win-leads-street-protests-across-u-s-n681906

mea culpa
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on November 12, 2020, 06:49:30 PM
Hell yeah, there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in Santa Cruz after the 2016 election.  The students knew.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 18, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/12640267_10153186684855927_1994476683682217936_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=GsW020r8D04AX_HAUg3&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3798eb61e97f7c72baf93d40db8ef7da&oe=5FDC0406)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 18, 2020, 11:16:25 AM
Thanks Dr. Phil but I think we've had enough dumping on the Trump family for now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 18, 2020, 03:30:28 PM
I gotta give props to the meme-maker: Dr. Phil did actually say this.  :thumbsup:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/02/05/get-a-damn-job-dr-phil-has-plenty-to-say-when-megyn-kelly-asks-him-about-entitlement-culture-in-america

Of course what does that say about social media that both Meri and I just assumed that the meme in question was probably false.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on November 18, 2020, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 18, 2020, 03:30:28 PM
I gotta give props to the meme-maker: Dr. Phil did actually say this.  :thumbsup:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/02/05/get-a-damn-job-dr-phil-has-plenty-to-say-when-megyn-kelly-asks-him-about-entitlement-culture-in-america

Of course what does that say about social media that both Meri and I just assumed that the meme in question was probably false.

It says more about what you think of Dr. Phil  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 18, 2020, 04:20:31 PM
He gives him too much credit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 18, 2020, 04:20:38 PM
Quote from: Maladict on November 18, 2020, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 18, 2020, 03:30:28 PM
I gotta give props to the meme-maker: Dr. Phil did actually say this.  :thumbsup:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/02/05/get-a-damn-job-dr-phil-has-plenty-to-say-when-megyn-kelly-asks-him-about-entitlement-culture-in-america

Of course what does that say about social media that both Meri and I just assumed that the meme in question was probably false.

It says more about what you think of Dr. Phil  :P

If you follow the link (yeah, yeah - it's Glen Beck's The Blaze - it was the first hit on Google when searching the quote) the comments don't seem out of line in talking about the particular guest he was talking about.  -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 21, 2020, 01:43:28 AM
After living in Missouri for about 2 years, my sister has a bit of buyer's remorse.

(https://i.postimg.cc/4NpS7vgW/brnm.jpg)

My gut reaction is: isn't that something you look at before you move there, or at latest after the first tax season? I mean, I made quite sure I knew enough about the Austrian tax system and residence requirements before moving here. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 21, 2020, 05:07:31 AM
Immigrant tax.  Real Americans don't have to pay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2020, 02:31:21 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/pandemic-over-former-pfizer-chief-science-officer-says-second-wave-faked-false-positive?utm_campaign=&utm_content=Zerohedge%3A%20The%20Durden%20Dispatch&utm_medium=email&utm_source=zh_newsletter&fbclid=IwAR0nEE3xvsKemkylz3DvobdS5RQKIgzIG3-ReZUWDxnZ2_5n30mQQ-qHtEA

Quote"Pandemic is Over" - Former Pfizer Chief Science Officer Says "Second Wave" Faked On False-Positive COVID Tests

This video provides one of the most erudite and informative looks at Covid-19 and the consequences of lockdowns. As AIER notes, it was remarkable this week to watch as it appeared on YouTube and was forcibly taken down only 2 hours after posting.

The copy below is hosted on LBRY, a blockchain video application. In a year of fantastic educational content, this is one of the best we've seen.

Dr. Michael Yeadon is an Allergy & Respiratory Therapeutic Area expert with 23 years in the pharmaceutical industry. He trained as a biochemist and pharmacologist, obtaining his PhD from the University of Surrey (UK) in 1988.

Dr. Yeadon then worked at the Wellcome Research Labs with Salvador Moncada with a research focus on airway hyper-responsiveness and effects of pollutants including ozone and working in drug discovery of 5-LO, COX, PAF, NO and lung inflammation. With colleagues, he was the first to detect exhaled NO in animals and later to induce NOS in lung via allergic triggers.

Joining Pfizer in 1995, he was responsible for the growth and portfolio delivery of the Allergy & Respiratory pipeline within the company. He was responsible for target selection and the progress into humans of new molecules, leading teams of up to 200 staff across all disciplines and won an Achievement Award for productivity in 2008.

Under his leadership the research unit invented oral and inhaled NCEs which delivered multiple positive clinical proofs of concept in asthma, allergic rhinitis and COPD. He led productive collaborations such as with Rigel Pharmaceuticals (SYK inhibitors) and was involved in the licensing of Spiriva and acquisition of the Meridica (inhaler device) company.

Dr. Yeadon has published over 40 original research articles and now consults and partners with a number of biotechnology companies. Before working with Apellis, Dr. Yeadon was VP and Chief Scientific Officer (Allergy & Respiratory Research) with Pfizer.

What likely triggered the Silicon Valley censor-mongers is the fact that a former Chief Science Officer for the pharmaceutical giant Pfizer says "there is no science to suggest a second wave should happen." The "Big Pharma" insider asserts that false positive results from inherently unreliable COVID tests are being used to manufacture a "second wave" based on "new cases."

As Ralph Lopez write at HubPages, Yeadon warns that half or even "almost all" of tests for COVID are false positives. Dr. Yeadon also argues that the threshold for herd immunity may be much lower than previously thought, and may have been reached in many countries already.

In an interview last week (see below) Dr. Yeadon was asked:

"we are basing a government policy, an economic policy, a civil liberties policy, in terms of limiting people to six people in a meeting...all based on, what may well be, completely fake data on this coronavirus?"

Dr. Yeadon answered with a simple "yes."

Even more significantly, even if all positives were to be correct, Dr. Yeadon said that given the "shape" of all important indicators in a worldwide pandemic, such as hospitalizations, ICU utilization, and deaths, "the pandemic is fundamentally over."

Yeadon said in the interview:

Were it not for the test data that you get from the TV all the time, you would rightly conclude that the pandemic was over, as nothing much has happened. Of course people go to the hospital, moving into the autumn flu season...but there is no science to suggest a second wave should happen."

In a paper published this month, which was co-authored by Yeadon and two of his colleagues, "How Likely is a Second Wave?", the scientists write:

"It has widely been observed that in all heavily infected countries in Europe and several of the US states likewise, that the shape of the daily deaths vs. time curves is similar to ours in the UK. Many of these curves are not just similar, but almost super imposable."

In the data for UK, Sweden, the US, and the world, it can be seen that in all cases, deaths were on the rise in March through mid or late April, then began tapering off in a smooth slope which flattened around the end of June and continues to today. The case rates however, based on testing, rise and swing upwards and downwards wildly.

Media messaging in the US is already ramping up expectations of a "second wave."

The survival rate of COVID-19 has been upgraded since May to 99.8% of infections. This comes close to ordinary flu, the survival rate of which is 99.9%. Although COVID can have serious after-effects, so can flu or any respiratory illness. The present survival rate is far higher than initial grim guesses in March and April, cited by Dr. Anthony Fauci, of 94%, or 20 to 30 times deadlier. The Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) value accepted by Yeadon et al in the paper is .26%. The survival rate of a disease is 100% minus the IFR.

Dr. Yeadon pointed out that the "novel" COVID-19 contagion is novel only in the sense that it is a new type of coronavirus. But, he said, there are presently four strains which circulate freely throughout the population, most often linked to the common cold.

In the scientific paper, Yeadon et al write:

"There are at least four well characterised family members (229E, NL63, OC43 and HKU1) which are endemic and cause some of the common colds we experience, especially in winter. They all have striking sequence similarity to the new coronavirus."

The scientists argue that much of the population already has, if not antibodies to COVID, some level of "T-cell" immunity from exposure to other related coronaviruses, which have been circulating long before COVID-19.

The scientists write:

"A major component our immune systems is the group of white blood cells called T-cells whose job it is to memorise a short piece of whatever virus we were infected with so the right cell types can multiply rapidly and protect us if we get a related infection. Responses to COVID-19 have been shown in dozens of blood samples taken from donors before the new virus arrived."

Introducing the idea that some prior immunity to COVID-19 already existed, the authors of "How Likely is a Second Wave?" write:

"It is now established that at least 30% of our population already had immunological recognition of this new virus, before it even arrived...COVID-19 is new, but coronaviruses are not."

They go on to say that, because of this prior resistance, only 15-25% of a population being infected may be sufficient to reach herd immunity:

"...epidemiological studies show that, with the extent of prior immunity that we can now reasonably assume to be the case, only 15-25% of the population being infected is sufficient to bring the spread of the virus to a halt..."

In the US, accepting a death toll of 200,000, and a survival rate of 99.8%, this would mean for every person who has died, there would be about 400 people who had been infected, and lived. This would translate to around 80 million Americans, or 27% of the population. This touches Yeadon's and his colleagues' threshold for herd immunity.

(https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/bfm44B1.jpg)

Finally, the former Pfizer executive and scientist singles out one former colleague for withering rebuke for his role in the pandemic, Professor Neil Ferguson. Ferguson taught at Imperial College while Yeadon was affiliated. Ferguson's computer model provided the rationale for governments to launch draconian orders which turned free societies into virtual prisons overnight. Over what is now estimated by the CDC to be a 99.8% survival rate virus.

Dr. Yeadon said in the interview that "no serious scientist gives any validity" to Ferguson's model.

Speaking with thinly-veiled contempt for Ferguson, Dr. Yeadon took special pains to point out to his interviewer:

"It's important that you know most scientists don't accept that it [Ferguson's model] was even faintly right...but the government is still wedded to the model."

Yeadon joins other scientists in castigating governments for following Ferguson's model, the assumptions of which all worldwide lockdowns are based on. One of these scientists is Dr. Johan Giesecke, former chief scientist for the European Center for Disease Control and Prevention, who called Ferguson's model "the most influential scientific paper" in memory, and also "one of the most wrong."

It was Ferguson's model which held that "mitigation" measures were necessary, i.e. social distancing and business closures, in order to prevent, for example, over 2.2 million people dying from COVID in the US.

Ferguson predicted that Sweden would pay a terrible price for no lockdown, with 40,000 COVID deaths by May 1, and 100,000 by June. Sweden's death count is under 6,000. The Swedish government says this coincides to a mild flu season. Although initially higher, Sweden now has a lower death rate per-capita than the US, which it achieved without the terrific economic damage still ongoing in the US. Sweden never closed restaurants, bars, sports, most schools, or movie theaters. The government never ordered people to wear masks.

Dr. Yeadon speaks bitterly of the lives lost as a result of lockdown policies, and of the "savable" countless lives which will be further lost, from important surgeries and other healthcare deferred, should lockdowns be reimposed.

Watch the full discussion below:

https://cdn.lbryplayer.xyz/api/v3/streams/free/Mike-Yeadon-Unlocked/0ca6e66a244be97b382aaafff14be94140a422eb/560976

Yeadon's warnings are confirmed by a new study from the Infectious Diseases Society of America., summarized succinctly in the following twitter thread from al gato malo (@boriquagato)

Anyone still presuming that a Positive PCR test is showing a COVID case needs to read this very carefully:
even 25 cycles of amplification, 70% of "positives" are not "cases." virus cannot be cultured. it's dead.

by 35: 97% non-clinical.

the US runs at 40, 32X the amplification of 35.

(https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/2020-11-22_10-10-29.jpg)

a lot of people still seem to not understand what this means, so let's lay that out for a minute.

PCR tests look for RNA. there is too little in your swab. so they amplify it using a primer based heating and annealing process.

Each cycle of this process doubles the material

(https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/EnYNZ0kW4AEvkcn.png)

the US (and much of the world) is using a 40 Ct (cycle threshold). so, 40 doublings, 1 trillion X amplification.

This is absurdly high.

The way that we know this is by running this test, seeing the Ct to find the RNA, and then using the same sample to try to culture virus.

If you cannot culture the virus, then the virus is "dead." it's inert. if it cannot replicate, it cannot infect you or others. it's just traces of virus, remnants, fragments etc

PCR is not testing for disease, it's testing for a specific RNA pattern and this is the key pivot

When you crank it up to 25, 70% of the positive results are not really "positives" in any clinical sense.

i hesitate to call it a "false positive" because it's really not. it did find RNA.

but that RNA is not clinically relevant.

It cannot make you or anyone else sick

so let's call this a non-clinical positive (NCP).

if 70% of positives are NCP's at 25, imagine what 40 looks like. 35 is 1000X as sensitive.

this study found only 3% live at 35

40 Ct is 32X 35, 32,000X 25

no one can culture live virus past about 34 and we have known this since march. yet no one has adjusted these tests.

Quote
el gato malo
@boriquagato
presuming it bears out, this is a key finding.

it shows that many patients that are PCR+ for COV-19 are not shedding infectious virus.

this would imply shorter quarantine needed and provide a testable basis for discharge of isolated patients.
10:02 PM · Mar 27, 2020

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUJPEvjUEAAUlRS?format=jpg&name=small)

This is more very strong data refuting the idea that you can trust a PCR+ as a clinical indicator.

That is NOT what it's meant for. at all.

Using them to do real time epidemiology is absurd.

(https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/EnYQECYW8AUdOtM.jpg)

The FDA would never do it, the drug companies doing vaccine trials would never do it... it's because it's nonsense.

And this same test is used for "hospitalizations" and "death with covid" (itself a weirdly over inclusive metric)

PCR testing is not the answer, it's the problem.

It's not how to get control of an epidemic, it's how to completely lose control of your data picture and wind up with gibberish and we have done this to ourselves before.

Quote
Dr Clare Craig
@ClareCraigPath
The last major false positive pseudo-epidemic was Swine Flu in 2009. Everyone said we would never let it happen again.
12:20 PM · Nov 16, 2020

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em8OxCXWMAImr-d?format=jpg&name=small)

A quick word what this data does and does not mean.
Saying "a sample requiring 35 Ct to test + has a 3% real clinical positive rate" does not mean "97% of + tests run at 35 Ct are NCP's"

People seem to get confused on this, so lets explain:

Most tests are just amplified and run. they don't test every cycle as these academics do. that would make the test slow and expensive, so you just run 40 cycles then test.

Obviously, a real clinical positive (RCP) that would have been + at 20 is still + at 40.

but when you run the tests each cycle as the academics do, that test would already have dropped out.

so saying that only 3% at 35 are RCP really means that 3% of those samples not PCR + at 34 were PCR and RCP + at 35.

this lets us infer little about overall NCP/RCP rate.

so we cannot say "at 25 Ct, we have a 70 NCP rate." in fact, it's hard to say much of anything. it depends entirely on what the source material coming in looks like.

you cannot even compare like to like.

This is what i mean by "the data is gibberish"

Today at 40 Ct, 7% PCR positive rate could be 1% RCP prevalence when that same thing meant 6% RCP prev in april.

If there is lots more trace virus around, more people who have recovered and have fragments left over, etc this test could be finding virus you killed 4 months ago.

So if we consider RCP rate/PCR+ rate, we would expect that number to drop sharply late in an epidemic because there is more dead virus around for PCR to find, but we have no idea what that ratio is or how it changes.

This spills over in to deaths, reported hospitalization etc.

Testing is being made out to be like the high beams on a car, but when it's snowing like hell at night, that is the LAST thing you want. It is not illuminating our way, it's blinding us.

A bad inaccurate map is much worse than no map at all, and this is a world class bad map...

(https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/EnYX9WxW4AAVEE1.png)

We're basing policy that is affecting billions of humans on data that is uninterpretable gibberish.

It's a deranged technocrat's wet dream, but for those of us along for the ride, it's a nightmare.

Testing is not the solution, it's the problem.

Any technocrat or scientist that does not know this by now is either unfit for their job or has decided that they just don't care and prefer power to morality.

This is, of curse, precisely the kind of person who winds up running a gov't agency... oopsie.

(https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/EnYVc_KW8AI7OP1.jpg)

The head of the NIH is not the best scientist, it's the best politician.

All this wild and reckless government policy has never been about the science.

It's politics and panic.

You can read the whole paper here:

https://www.scribd.com/document/485382529/ciaa1491

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 24, 2020, 03:13:07 AM
Can't be bothered to read it all but he is totally wrong about the map  :mad:

For a Greek living in 500BC that is a tremendously useful map  :cool:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 24, 2020, 03:16:03 AM
Why has a thread about Facebook and stupidity been pinned?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on November 24, 2020, 03:20:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 24, 2020, 03:16:03 AM
Why has a thread about Facebook and stupidity been pinned?
some dumbass must have misclicked while reading languish on his phone.  <_<
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 24, 2020, 03:21:50 AM
Who could it possibly be.........  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2020, 03:25:00 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 24, 2020, 03:13:07 AM
Can't be bothered to read it all but he is totally wrong about the map  :mad:

It was a journey. I just wanted to copy the article. I was first surprised by all the inset quotes, but at that point I stuck with the italics instead of nested quotes. And then it went on and on and on, but at that point I felt committed. Then there was graphics, and embedded tweets, and the whole thing turned from somewhat coherent speech at the start to mad rambling. It was like watching someone's breakdown in text form.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2020, 06:50:27 AM
That's actually accurate. Except that there were more, smaller lights that were also blinking.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/127276748_2832034390402887_1672888259584243838_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Uj67PxaWnUYAX_8A0Ib&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=28ef81fbe259e06e08f45c4e19051979&oe=5FE0FC2C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 24, 2020, 06:57:20 AM
What do Christmas trees look like now, then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 24, 2020, 07:01:34 AM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Festivus_Pole.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2020, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 24, 2020, 06:57:20 AM
What do Christmas trees look like now, then?

Dunno, haven't had one in ages. Friends' trees usually look a lot less ... crowded? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 24, 2020, 11:18:07 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 24, 2020, 02:31:21 AM

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
If you want to refute this, with hard data:
https://unherd.com/2020/11/the-trouble-with-covid-denialism/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 30, 2020, 01:42:04 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12250039_1060961670589830_5902154004195562028_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=x-9xXaCmpvgAX-38j_n&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9593abefebb8166906d7268e77dcbd37&oe=5FE98B70)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/121152887_986805731797532_8619044157616038138_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=75xWpb7sVboAX9YGVT1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5bb83934f152530589bec7da43a1c19b&oe=5FEAE4CB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 30, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
Really? Now the Vice President is responsible for Benghazi?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 30, 2020, 05:15:00 PM
Am I suppose to know who the guy with sunglasses is?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 30, 2020, 05:18:32 PM
Stock photo image #13446
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 30, 2020, 05:23:21 PM
I think Hillary will be long gone and dead and Republicans will still auto-denounce all Democrat politicians on account of Benghazi. It'll be the Thatcher of the GOP.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 30, 2020, 07:41:38 PM
Well you can only get so far screaming Whitewater! these days. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on November 30, 2020, 07:45:04 PM
Well it was an incredible cover up, involving hundreds of thousands if not millions of conspirators.  The very fact that not one of them talked, they managed to destroy all evidence, and denied wrong doing just shows this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 01, 2020, 01:55:06 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/119021597_10218094152209796_2719704782432234116_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=8sXNNLGtn-IAX8TtL2y&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4b08019da0ae0a5a3a464fba803b399f&oe=5FEC2505)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 01, 2020, 07:36:49 AM
What is "shoving it down my throat" mean in the context of homosexuality?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 01, 2020, 07:40:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 01, 2020, 07:36:49 AM
What is "shoving it down my throat" mean in the context of homosexuality?

Not hiding in a closet, I suppose.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 01, 2020, 07:44:26 AM
"I shouldn't be made to feel shame for something my ancestors did" is not an unreasonable position.  However, if you take that stance you can't take pride in what your ancestors did either.  National pride and national shame are two side of the same coin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 01, 2020, 10:17:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 01, 2020, 07:40:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 01, 2020, 07:36:49 AM
What is "shoving it down my throat" mean in the context of homosexuality?

Not hiding in a closet, I suppose.

It could be meant literally.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 01, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
I feel like Syt's relatives post the "it is the gays and blacks fault I hate them because of how they oppress me" whine at least once a month.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 01, 2020, 05:55:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 01, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
I feel like Syt's relatives post the "it is the gays and blacks fault I hate them because of how they oppress me" whine at least once a month.
only that?  I'd swear it was every week or so...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 02, 2020, 01:27:45 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/20-alleged-election-facts-dont-pass-smell-test?utm_campaign=&utm_content=Zerohedge%3A+The+Durden+Dispatch&utm_medium=email&utm_source=zh_newsletter

Quote10 Alleged Election "Facts" That Don't Pass The Smell Test

by Tyler Durden  :lol:
Mon, 11/30/2020 - 17:45

Authored by Andrea Widburg via AmericanThinker.com,

Americans have common sense, so they can understand when they're being played (for example, when politicians place Americans under house arrest and then ignore their own rules to party and travel). And they know that there is no way on God's green earth that decrepit, demented, corrupt, and terminally stupid Joe Biden fairly won this election. This post assembles various election anomalies that don't pass the smell test.

J.B. Shurk, who frequently publishes at American Thinker, wrote a knock-out article for The Federalist about Joe Biden's magical performance in the election. You should read the whole article, but here are four things that don't pass the smell test:

1. Biden allegedly got 80 million votes, which is more than Obama received at his peak, in 2008 – and Biden did this despite losing minority voters to Donald Trump and trailing Trump in voter enthusiasm.

2. Biden broke 60 years of precedent by winning nationally despite losing prodigiously in bellwether states and counties. The last time this happened was when the mafia got out the vote for John F. Kennedy in 1960.

3. Trump had extraordinary coattails, so much so that even the New York Times admitted that the "Democrats Suffered Crushing Down-Ballot Losses Across America." Think about that: Biden had no coattails and no enthusiasm, yet he allegedly won a record number of votes. Smells fetid to me.

4. Biden barely made it through the primaries, while Trump soared, with Trump's performance being a historically sure sign of voter enthusiasm and probable victory – yet Biden, again, allegedly scored an equally historically strong victory.

At The Spectator, Patrick Basham, a professional pollster, also felt that Biden's alleged win cannot pass the smell test. Again, this is a summary, so you should read the original article:

5. Trump exceeded his original vote count by the largest margin for any incumbent in American history. He got 10 million more votes than before; by contrast, Obama, in 2012, got 3.5 million fewer votes than in 2008.

6. Trump's support among blacks grew by 50%, while Biden's fell below the important 90%-mark that Democrat candidates need to secure victory.

7. In the Rust Belt, Biden lost black support everywhere except in Detroit, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee. In those cities, every single black person apparently voted for Biden.

8. While pollsters can and do manipulate polling outcomes, non-polling metrics (historical norms such as the economy, enthusiasm, etc.) have never been wrong – only we're being told that this year was the exception.

Then there are the indicia of fraud that Dr. Navid Kershavarz-Nia detailed:

9. The fact that Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia simultaneously pretended to halt ballot counting while continuing to count is evidence of election fraud collusion.

10. Optical scanners were set to accept unverified, un-validated ballots.

11. The scanners were almost certainly programmed to fail to keep audit records.

12. In the contested states, the voting machines were alleged to have processed hundreds of thousands of ballots within a short time, which is a physical impossibility.

And here are a few more indications of fraud:

13. In Pennsylvania, statistically impossible numbers of late-arriving mail-in votes went to Biden.

14. Dominion and ES&S voting machines were created to have back doors and specific functions to manipulate votes either at the machine or over the internet.

15. Fox News's behavior on election night (refusing to call pro-Trump outcomes while prematurely calling Arizona for Biden) was so abnormal that Vegas oddsmakers instantly assumed that the fix was in.

16. The allegedly late-arriving mailed-in ballots increased Biden's equally alleged lead with statistically impossible perfection and stability.

17. There were anomalies in Virginia that suggested that computers were subtracting votes from Trump and, sometimes, giving them to Biden.

18. One analysis shows that voting machines in Michigan systematically removed votes from Trump and handed them to Biden. I saw a rebuttal (which I cannot locate now) that purported to debunk this but did so by using a different scale on the X-axis, which I found inherently suspicious.

19. Over 100,000 Pennsylvania absentee ballots were returned either a day after they were mailed out, on the day they were mailed out, or on the day before they were mailed out.

20. In all the contested areas, and at Dominion's website, Democrats have been systematically failing to create or have destroyed all data that could be used to demonstrate fraud. This creates the legal presumption that the data do, in fact, show fraud.

On behalf of all Trump voters, I say to the Democrats who are trying to gaslight us: Don't spit in my face and tell me it's raining.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 02, 2020, 01:40:45 AM
Can I spit him in the face quietly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 02, 2020, 02:15:05 AM
Piss on his leg.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 02, 2020, 02:16:44 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 02, 2020, 02:15:05 AM
Piss on his leg.
I'm shy.  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 02, 2020, 04:48:34 AM
I am Jack's contempt for GOP voters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 02, 2020, 12:42:44 PM
Here is some more anomalies that don't pass the smell test:

1) Trump won a record number of votes for a GOP candidate despite the flight of the suburbs to the Democrats.

2) Trump got 12 million more votes in 2020 than 2016 even though his popularity declined and he lost big voter demos.

3) The polls showed a Biden blow out.  Somehow the polls are wrong only in the years when Trump runs and always in a way that massively benefits Trump.

4) The voting results showed that some black people who are neither insane nor billionaires voted for Trump, which is implausible.

5) Trump ran better in the city of Philadelphia in 2020 than in 2016 even though Biden is a native son to the region.

6) Trump got votes from obviously fake people like "Tyler Durden" and "Sean Hannity"

And so on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 02, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2020, 01:27:45 AM
3. Trump had extraordinary coattails, so much so that even the New York Times admitted that the "Democrats Suffered Crushing Down-Ballot Losses Across America." Think about that: Biden had no coattails and no enthusiasm, yet he allegedly won a record number of votes. Smells fetid to me.

Gee, I wonder if there might be a very simple and straight-forward explanation for that outcome...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 02, 2020, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2020, 01:27:45 AM
3. Trump had extraordinary coattails, so much so that even the New York Times admitted that the "Democrats Suffered Crushing Down-Ballot Losses Across America." Think about that: Biden had no coattails and no enthusiasm, yet he allegedly won a record number of votes. Smells fetid to me.

Gee, I wonder if there might be a very simple and straight-forward explanation for that outcome...


Hell, I split the ticket this time.  I voted for the Republican for governor and lt. governor.  They had spearheaded removable of the previous governor who turned out to be a sociopath.  I felt that removing sociopaths from the GOP is the sort of behavior that should be rewarded.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 02, 2020, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 02, 2020, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2020, 01:27:45 AM
3. Trump had extraordinary coattails, so much so that even the New York Times admitted that the "Democrats Suffered Crushing Down-Ballot Losses Across America." Think about that: Biden had no coattails and no enthusiasm, yet he allegedly won a record number of votes. Smells fetid to me.

Gee, I wonder if there might be a very simple and straight-forward explanation for that outcome...


Hell, I split the ticket this time.  I voted for the Republican for governor and lt. governor.  They had spearheaded removable of the previous governor who turned out to be a sociopath.  I felt that removing sociopaths from the GOP is the sort of behavior that should be rewarded.

The simple explanation I was thinking of was that a lot of people really don't like Trump...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 02, 2020, 03:33:55 PM
I mean everybody knows there are never-Trump Republicans. If there weren't we wouldn't have a term for them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 02, 2020, 06:15:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 02, 2020, 03:33:55 PM
I mean everybody knows there are never-Trump Republicans. If there weren't we wouldn't have a term for them.

Yay unicorns! :w00t:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 02, 2020, 06:43:30 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2020, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 02, 2020, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2020, 01:27:45 AM
3. Trump had extraordinary coattails, so much so that even the New York Times admitted that the "Democrats Suffered Crushing Down-Ballot Losses Across America." Think about that: Biden had no coattails and no enthusiasm, yet he allegedly won a record number of votes. Smells fetid to me.

Gee, I wonder if there might be a very simple and straight-forward explanation for that outcome...


Hell, I split the ticket this time.  I voted for the Republican for governor and lt. governor.  They had spearheaded removable of the previous governor who turned out to be a sociopath.  I felt that removing sociopaths from the GOP is the sort of behavior that should be rewarded.

The simple explanation I was thinking of was that a lot of people really don't like Trump...


Yes, but some of these people who didn't like Trump were still electing Republicans in other offices.  It's a comforting to think that many Republicans hold to conservative ideas but can separate that from Trump who they despise.  Maybe there is hope.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 05, 2020, 05:09:39 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/sx0rhZGq/bnhotp.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 05, 2020, 10:54:02 AM
I thought that was disproved
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 05, 2020, 10:59:17 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2020, 10:54:02 AM
I thought that was disproved
You should let the people behind that story know, so that they could issue a retraction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 05, 2020, 04:04:17 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2020, 10:54:02 AM
I thought that was disproved
Sounds like we have a leftist commie liberal traitor.  Implying that facts are disproved? What's next comrade? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 05, 2020, 04:22:22 PM
Doesn't he like life in Alpha Complex?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 05, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 05, 2020, 04:22:22 PM
Doesn't he like life in Alpha Complex?
Happiness is mandatory!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 08, 2020, 03:53:12 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYD05JLh/stl.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9F7T34Hk/bomb.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FFqcny8c/sts.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 08, 2020, 03:46:30 PM
Let them live without government help?  Are they admitting that government plays an important role?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2020, 01:08:07 AM
In a shocking turn of events it turns out my sister is not a fan of George Soros. :o

(https://i.postimg.cc/VLp1kJqP/srs.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2020, 01:09:16 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 08, 2020, 03:46:30 PM
Let them live without government help?  Are they admitting that government plays an important role?

No, they're saying they're degenerate freeloaders who're living large because the government is too generous. CUT WELFARE!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 09, 2020, 01:11:02 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 09, 2020, 01:08:07 AM
In a shocking turn of events it turns out my sister is not a fan of George Soros. :o

If a guy with 4 Billion net worth, much less cash, can fund every politician in the world I think the rest of us should just stop making donations. Clearly they don't need that much funding.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on December 09, 2020, 02:00:04 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 05, 2020, 04:04:17 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 05, 2020, 10:54:02 AM
I thought that was disproved
Sounds like we have a leftist commie liberal traitor.  Implying that facts are disproved? What's next comrade?

You Retrumplican you....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
QuoteWe are all being played
Me AT GROCERY STORE:
Why is there plastic on the payment keypad?
Cashier: to protect people from Covid.
Me : but isn't everyone touching the plastic keypad the same way they would the regular keypad?🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️
Cashier: no words. Confused look. 👀
Me : Why Dont you pack the grocery bags anymore?
Cashier : Because of covid 19 to reduce the spread of catching or spreading the virus.
Me : But a shelf packer took it out of a box and put on the shelf, a few customers might of picked it up and put back deciding they Dont want it, I put it in my cart then on the conveyer belt, YOU pick it up to scan it.. But putting it in a bag after you scan is risky??
Cashier : no words, confused look 👀
Me AT DRIVE-THRU
Server: (holds a tray out the window with a bag of food for logical friend to grab)
Me: why is my bag of food on a tray?
Server: so I don't touch your food because of Covid.
Me: didn't the cook touch my food? Didn't the person wrapping my food touch it and then touch it again when placing it in my bag? Didn't you touch the bag and put it on the tray? Didn't you touch the tray? 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️
Server: no words. Confused look. 👀
Me in SOCIETY
Society ; If you cough or sneeze do it in your elbow or sleeve,
Also society : Dont shake hands or hug anyone or you will spread the virus..
To greet people do an elbow tap instead.
Me : Elbow tap 🤷‍♀️? Isn't that where you tell people to sneeze or cough? into their elbow? Now you want people to tap each other with that elbow  🤦‍♀️
wouldn't it be safer to sneeze into elbow and shake hands like we did before Covid 🤷‍♀️
Me AT RESTAURANT:
Hostess: ok, I can seat you at this table right here (4 feet away), but I will need you to wear a mask to the table.
Me: what happens when I get to the table?
Hostess: you can take off the mask.
Me: then it is safe over there?
Hostess: yes.
Me: are those fans blowing above the table? Is that the air-conditioning I feel? Is the air circulating in here?🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️ Hostess: no words. Confused look.👀
SOCIETY : You are not allowed to stand and drink at the bars you have to sit down.
But at the shopping centre you are not allowed to sit down, all the chairs are roped off.
Who thinks this stuff up?
Life is hard for logical people right now. We are being raised without the ability to process and execute logic 💯
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on December 09, 2020, 04:15:24 PM
Try as I might, I have such a hard time keeping my elbow out of my face.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 09, 2020, 04:20:55 PM
She sounds like an all-or-nothing kind of gal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 09, 2020, 04:29:41 PM
People have foibles and do not always act consistently: WE ARE ALL BEING SCREWED
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 09, 2020, 04:36:17 PM
A lot of these are not inconsistent - the writer is just ignorant.

For example, take the first one - plastic on keyboards. Yes, people touch both. The point is that you can sanitize a piece of plastic much easier than you can an uncovered keyboard, with some kind of sanitizing wipe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on December 09, 2020, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 09, 2020, 04:36:17 PM
A lot of these are not inconsistent - the writer is just ignorant.

For example, take the first one - plastic on keyboards. Yes, people touch both. The point is that you can sanitize a piece of plastic much easier than you can an uncovered keyboard, with some kind of sanitizing wipe.
not to mention the grocery stores around here have a bottle of hand sanitizer right next to said keypads so customer can sanitize their hands before touching the keypad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 10, 2020, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 09, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
QuoteWe are all being played
Me AT GROCERY STORE:
Why is there plastic on the payment keypad?
Cashier: to protect people from Covid.
Me : but isn't everyone touching the plastic keypad the same way they would the regular keypad?🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️
Cashier: no words. Confused look. 👀
duh.  because they disinfect the plastic in between customers?  which can't easily be done on a regular keypad as they don't play nice with liquid?

Gee, how stupid some people are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 10, 2020, 05:06:50 PM
I think it's a valid question, it just happens to have a valid answer.  I guess the mistake was assuming that if cashier did not know that valid answer, then it didn't exist.  That said, you'd think that cashier should know about sanitizing the plastic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 10, 2020, 05:40:59 PM
She probably did but the whole thing is made up to give the reader a smug sense of moral superiority.  So of course the non-existent cashier is a libtard moron.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 10, 2020, 07:38:03 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 10, 2020, 05:06:50 PM
I think it's a valid question, it just happens to have a valid answer.  I guess the mistake was assuming that if cashier did not know that valid answer, then it didn't exist.  That said, you'd think that cashier should know about sanitizing the plastic.

Or the person telling the story was making shit up....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 11, 2020, 01:55:36 AM
Quote from: DGuller on December 10, 2020, 05:06:50 PM
I think it's a valid question, it just happens to have a valid answer.  I guess the mistake was assuming that if cashier did not know that valid answer, then it didn't exist.  That said, you'd think that cashier should know about sanitizing the plastic.
either it's invented, or the cashier was just wondering how dumb that person who just saw her sanitizing the keypad was?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 15, 2020, 01:09:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131353834_10224620955610556_1177221744500158073_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=n_IZ3wjR6rAAX-kguDI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=29c1aea285c369a9a2cda7c4afead33c&oe=5FFE4974)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131579666_1942773692538725_5821739247681285463_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DQ3SdWKzeyYAX89Xzwe&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=99772f2463e5b571e769684d01c32377&oe=5FFEFA31)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on December 15, 2020, 01:35:43 AM
People posting this in 2020 would have stood to the right of this picture with gun in hands in 1943.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 16, 2020, 12:44:22 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/122015045_3701268706579356_7949392915356637811_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sx7ujYgI51YAX-Tc8zJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fc62a92756058ce3f2836c209467cb93&oe=6000D715)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/129725524_3503970556306719_2784948437139354116_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=7u9qQPXivdQAX8Ge0UQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=eafa8768bdab074eb617a089dbf5da7d&oe=5FFDA7D4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 16, 2020, 01:28:16 AM
I don't get it. There was no investigation of Trump until after he was inaugurated. I mean I am not opposed at all to doing a big investigation into this election, we have so many people who think it was rigged...not that I anticipate it would convince many of them but I can see it being justified as in the public interest to do such an investigation.

And this is the United States. We have shitloads of praying going on all the time. And I don't think we beat the British by staying in church and praying and then God sunk all the Hessians ships in the Atlantic, we did stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 16, 2020, 01:29:25 AM
And since history suggests a big Republican win in 2022 I am pretty sure there will eventually be an investigation anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 16, 2020, 01:33:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2020, 01:28:16 AMAnd I don't think we beat the British by staying in church and praying

If you did, the British would have burned you alive inside. :(

(https://www.supertorchritual.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/ThePatriot-church-burning.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 16, 2020, 01:34:54 AM
Fucking Mel Gibson.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 17, 2020, 06:47:11 AM
QuoteCopied..........A PHARMACISTS THREAD on TWITTER:
COVID-19 📷
There's something very strange going on with this COVID thing. I've been a pharmacist for 43 years, 30 years as an owner. It's December 12, 2020, well into the "flu season." I have not dispensed any Tamiflu this season whatsoever. Tamiflu generic is the most prescribed medication for the flu, once you're diagnosed. Extremely effective.
I asked my friend Mike, who works as a salesman for a major national wholesaler, how much Tamiflu and generic has he sold to Pharmacies this season. He hasn't sold any. He has 75 accounts of independent pharmacies across the United States.
By now, it's well known that Covid tests give false positives. How many of these false positives are actually "the flu"? How many are just "the common cold"? Why does the CDC report daily case numbers & deaths for Covid and not for the flu?
CDC says Covid is more deadly than the flu. Well, if you're potentially taking a large number of flu cases and bundling them into the Covid numbers, then yes, the perception is that it is more deadly.
I believe we are being played. YES, COVID is REAL, it CAN BE DEADLY. We now have drug regimens to treat Covid effectively, one being Dr. Zev Zelenko's regimen, among others. I believe the Covid numbers are being skewed upward, on purpose to continue instilling fear and panic into people, for governments to continue with lockdowns, for more small businesses to be put out, for more people to commit suicide, or others; for more and more social upheaval. Why? Total population control through fear.
If we are so obedient to wear masks, stand here, don't stand there, obedient to get a new vaccine, obedient to carry proof you've gotten the vaccine: otherwise you won't be able to fly; then it will be buses, trains, taxis, Ubers, Target, Wal-Mart, grocery stores..everything. Just like that.
You're slowly giving up your freedoms to a virus that has a 99.4% survival rate, according to the CDC. And the vaccine? Like I've told my customers all these years; don't be the first on your block to try anything new. They really don't know what they'll find out in 6 months, a year, 5 years & longer, that can be attributed to the vaccine.  It's way past time for people to take their heads out of their a** and start thinking for themselves. Done.
Harvey Staub
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on December 17, 2020, 11:47:57 AM
This one from alleged Dr. Pharmacist here is really odd, as he or she answers their own conspiracy charge in the opening of their rant.

Why aren't they selling more Tamiflu? It isn't necessarily because flu cases are being diagnosed as Covid, let alone a conspiracy to do so - perhaps it is because, during a pandemic, more people are doing stuff like washing hands, wearing masks, and socially distancing - measures that are even more effective at reducing influenza rates?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3

But that would involve knowing something about the science. Clearly, in such situations, speculation based on anecdote is preferable, otherwise you may miss a wide-ranging conspiracy to take away your rights!

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 17, 2020, 12:12:48 PM
QuoteDear Mr. Biden, #notmypresident
Although I refused to listen to it, I understand that during your presidential acceptance speech, you were calling for the unity of Trump supporters.   
I remember four years ago my President Trump also called for unity.  I remember how Congressional members of your Democratic Party responded by boycotting his inauguration.   
I remember how you and your Democratic party cheated and used the greatest law enforcement institution of this country to spy on my President Trumps campaign.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party created a fake Russian dossier to try and impeach my President Trump.   
I remember how your speaker of the house ripped up my President Trumps beautiful State of the Union speach on National TV.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party tried to impeach my President Trump over a Ukraine phone call.   
You accused my President Trump of pay to play.  Come to find out Joe, it was really you and your son Hunter.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party blamed my President Trump over a pandemic that he had nothing to do with.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party encouraged rioting and looting of my great United States of America.
I remember how you and your Democratic Party used the media to spread lie after lie about my President Trump.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party stole the election from my President Trump.   
This Trump supporter remembers all that Joe and will NOT be unifying with your Democratic Party.   
This Trump supporter will be giving you the same respect you gave my President Trump.
(copied from another Deplorable, like myself) Can I get a big AMEN from all the other Deplorables who feel the same as I do ???
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 17, 2020, 12:20:03 PM
People have been saying #notmypresident for two decades now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 17, 2020, 12:24:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 17, 2020, 12:20:03 PM
People have been saying #notmypresident for two decades now.

At this point it's an American tradition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 17, 2020, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 17, 2020, 12:12:48 PM
QuoteDear Mr. Biden, #notmypresident
Although I refused to listen to it, I understand that during your presidential acceptance speech, you were calling for the unity of Trump supporters.   
I remember four years ago my President Trump also called for unity.  I remember how Congressional members of your Democratic Party responded by boycotting his inauguration.   
I remember how you and your Democratic party cheated and used the greatest law enforcement institution of this country to spy on my President Trumps campaign.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party created a fake Russian dossier to try and impeach my President Trump.   
I remember how your speaker of the house ripped up my President Trumps beautiful State of the Union speach on National TV.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party tried to impeach my President Trump over a Ukraine phone call.   
You accused my President Trump of pay to play.  Come to find out Joe, it was really you and your son Hunter.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party blamed my President Trump over a pandemic that he had nothing to do with.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party encouraged rioting and looting of my great United States of America.
I remember how you and your Democratic Party used the media to spread lie after lie about my President Trump.   
I remember how you and your Democratic Party stole the election from my President Trump.   
This Trump supporter remembers all that Joe and will NOT be unifying with your Democratic Party.   
This Trump supporter will be giving you the same respect you gave my President Trump.
(copied from another Deplorable, like myself) Can I get a big AMEN from all the other Deplorables who feel the same as I do ???

Paraprhase.
Dear Joe Biden: I remember of various people who are not you did and said things I didn't like.  Therefore I won't respect you. Because.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 17, 2020, 12:27:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 17, 2020, 11:47:57 AM
This one from alleged Dr. Pharmacist here is really odd, as he or she answers their own conspiracy charge in the opening of their rant.

Why aren't they selling more Tamiflu? It isn't necessarily because flu cases are being diagnosed as Covid, let alone a conspiracy to do so - perhaps it is because, during a pandemic, more people are doing stuff like washing hands, wearing masks, and socially distancing - measures that are even more effective at reducing influenza rates?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3

But that would involve knowing something about the science. Clearly, in such situations, speculation based on anecdote is preferable, otherwise you may miss a wide-ranging conspiracy to take away your rights!

Pharmacists are weird.  Film at 11.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on December 17, 2020, 02:01:42 PM
FUnny, I was just thinking this morning that I have not had a cold or flu this season, which typically I get 1 or 2 of each year.

I just assumed it was because I wasn't out and interacting with other cold and flu vectors nearly as much. I even thought, in my head, "Hey, I bet overall rates of the cold and flu are likely WAY down....". Then I thought...."Hmmm, I wonder if after we deal with Covid, maybe it would make sense to think about what measures we took that could become more of the norm?"

Anyway, I am sure all that is really because I am part of the conspiracy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 17, 2020, 02:06:44 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2020, 02:01:42 PM
FUnny, I was just thinking this morning that I have not had a cold or flu this season, which typically I get 1 or 2 of each year.

I just assumed it was because I wasn't out and interacting with other cold and flu vectors nearly as much. I even thought, in my head, "Hey, I bet overall rates of the cold and flu are likely WAY down....". Then I thought...."Hmmm, I wonder if after we deal with Covid, maybe it would make sense to think about what measures we took that could become more of the norm?"

Anyway, I am sure all that is really because I am part of the conspiracy.

Back in September I got a cold (was tested for Covid - negative) and wondered just who the hell I even caught it from given the social distancing and mask wearing I was doing.

Yeah I wonder if mask wearing is going to be more normalized even after the pandemic (like it is in Asia), or if we'll all be so desperate to get rid of our masks at the first opportunity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on December 17, 2020, 02:19:04 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 17, 2020, 12:27:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 17, 2020, 11:47:57 AM
This one from alleged Dr. Pharmacist here is really odd, as he or she answers their own conspiracy charge in the opening of their rant.

Why aren't they selling more Tamiflu? It isn't necessarily because flu cases are being diagnosed as Covid, let alone a conspiracy to do so - perhaps it is because, during a pandemic, more people are doing stuff like washing hands, wearing masks, and socially distancing - measures that are even more effective at reducing influenza rates?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3

But that would involve knowing something about the science. Clearly, in such situations, speculation based on anecdote is preferable, otherwise you may miss a wide-ranging conspiracy to take away your rights!

Pharmacists are weird.  Film at 11.

:rolleyes:

Tamiflu is almost never used as it's pretty ineffective. Please don't drink the Kool-Aid guys.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 17, 2020, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 17, 2020, 02:06:44 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2020, 02:01:42 PM
FUnny, I was just thinking this morning that I have not had a cold or flu this season, which typically I get 1 or 2 of each year.

I just assumed it was because I wasn't out and interacting with other cold and flu vectors nearly as much. I even thought, in my head, "Hey, I bet overall rates of the cold and flu are likely WAY down....". Then I thought...."Hmmm, I wonder if after we deal with Covid, maybe it would make sense to think about what measures we took that could become more of the norm?"

Anyway, I am sure all that is really because I am part of the conspiracy.

Back in September I got a cold (was tested for Covid - negative) and wondered just who the hell I even caught it from given the social distancing and mask wearing I was doing.

Yeah I wonder if mask wearing is going to be more normalized even after the pandemic (like it is in Asia), or if we'll all be so desperate to get rid of our masks at the first opportunity.

Funny - after posting this I read Malthus's link (contained on Zoupa's quote above).

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3

So it talks a lot about how the flu and other viruses has been almost completely knocked out this year, likely becauseof the masks, hand-wsahing and social distancing (though we don't know for sure).

But then it talks about rhinoviruses:

QuoteThere is one major exception to the downward viral trend. "The one virus that's not being halted is the rhinovirus," says Janet Englund, a paediatric infectious disease researcher at Seattle Children's Hospital in Washington. Rhinoviruses are the major cause of the common cold, especially in children. More than a hundred strains exist, and about a dozen typically circulate in any given community. In one study in Southampton, UK, rhinovirus detection in adults admitted to hospital remained lower over the summer of 2020 than in summer 2019, but shot up as usual once schools reopened in September4. Data from NSW likewise show an apparent surge in rhinoviruses over the southern winter. Although some of these peaks are probably due to an increase in testing in people with mild cold symptoms, these viruses certainly did not decline as others did.

"No one really knows why" rhinoviruses are proving so persistent, says Englund. Some viruses that cause cold-like symptoms are very different from each other in structure; in particular, rhinoviruses, unlike influenza and coronaviruses, don't have an outer lipid coat, or envelope, which is vulnerable to soaps and sanitizers. In NSW, detection of the non-enveloped adenoviruses, which also cause cold-like symptoms, held relatively steady throughout the southern winter, rather than crashing like flu or surging like rhinovirus. "The expectation is that rhinovirus is perhaps more stable on surfaces," Englund says, allowing greater transmission between children on hands, desks and doorknobs. There is also thought to be greater asymptomatic transmission of rhinoviruses, which would allow them to circulate more freely in schools, even when sick children are staying at home.

So that could explain my September cold...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 18, 2020, 04:28:07 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131535369_3955613281138850_2333873591304509373_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=wLctUiuvOAUAX_wmN4k&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=472339304071b33e658a5f87c0cd8eb4&oe=6003519E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 18, 2020, 05:16:52 PM
Man the conspiracy theory that the election was stolen from Trump is now just part of a conspiracy theory to protect Clinton, Biden, and Obama.

It is conspiracies all the way down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 18, 2020, 06:17:04 PM
Wow, that's, like, deep.

And yes I guess wishing someone who is dead to be alive is wishful thinking. Very deep.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 18, 2020, 08:12:11 PM
Well the world is a seething hell of double standards and unfairness. All of life's problems are the result of the leftist-islamomillitantfeminazi commies.   Their dread purpose is interwoven at every level of creation, from the fake moon landings down to Hell where Obamasatan rulez.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 18, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
I'm getting really tired of this Qanon bullshit.  Some pig farmer in the Philippines starts to posting weird poems and now we have assholes claiming anyone they don't like is a pedophile.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 27, 2020, 02:29:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/65516159_10216845408280129_6700750796872482816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rF2tPtZbNHgAX869BgQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=28aa7d88b3cd8f1d9108c42e2a1fb162&oe=600C8518)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 27, 2020, 02:33:31 AM
We also donate trillions to institutions while denying medical care and financial support to our people during a pandemic that restricts their ability to work and causes life threatening damage to their health. 'Murica.

Kind of odd to see Syt's family demanding socialist policies, but I guess when twinned with hatred of foreigners its ok. You might even call it a nationalist sort of socialism. Huh...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 27, 2020, 02:50:45 AM
Concern for the homeless and mentally ill is merely a talking point to people who say things like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on December 27, 2020, 02:57:36 AM
It's similar to the cognitive dissonance on abortion.  Immense concern for life while in the womb...life once out of the womb?  Babies better pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 27, 2020, 03:02:22 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 27, 2020, 02:50:45 AM
Concern for the homeless and mentally ill is merely a talking point to people who say things like that.

Exactly. After all, there should be no government handouts, lazy bums should earn their keep, if you're poor it's your own fault etc. etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 27, 2020, 03:12:42 AM
So...pressing 1 to speak English is bad? They'd rather it be listed after the deaf option?

QuoteConcern for the homeless and mentally ill is merely a talking point to people who say things like that.

(https://i.ibb.co/MBkj66D/122760962-3754315384627506-5311670266512133721-n.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 27, 2020, 03:16:21 AM
Quote from: Tyr on December 27, 2020, 03:12:42 AM
So...pressing 1 to speak English is bad? They'd rather it be listed after the deaf option?

The bad part is that immediately following that message is "para español, marque dos"

IT SHOULD JUST DEFAULT TO ENGLISH, WE HAVE LOST OUR COUNTRY!!!1111
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 27, 2020, 04:31:22 AM
Jeff Durham has filled me with the COURAGE to say we should stop giving Israel 3 billion a year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 27, 2020, 04:52:24 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 27, 2020, 04:31:22 AM
Jeff Durham has filled me with the COURAGE to say we should stop giving Israel 3 billion a year.

How much do you want to give them? 30 billion?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 27, 2020, 05:07:28 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 27, 2020, 04:52:24 AM
How much do you want to give them? 30 billion?

I'm debating between jack and shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 27, 2020, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on December 27, 2020, 02:57:36 AM
It's similar to the cognitive dissonance on abortion.  Immense concern for life while in the womb...life once out of the womb?  Babies better pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
That's a really bad argument.  If you oppose abortion because you think it's murder, then it's okay to oppose murder without taking on a financial responsibility for the future murder victims.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 27, 2020, 10:42:27 AM
"We have homelessness!"
"They are lazy, no socialism!"

Endless repeat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 28, 2020, 02:50:37 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/V6bxBQFC/thg.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 29, 2020, 09:47:44 AM
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/rubio-is-right-fauci-has-repeatedly-lied-because-he-thinks-youre-stupid?fbclid=IwAR1oaF7biyDcVLqBc6SncS5Q87n-IiYMcrph7U6nhgIt3JGhcW4NhhzH808

QuoteRubio is right: Fauci has repeatedly lied because he thinks you're stupid

Nearly a year into our 15 days to slow the spread, our political class still refuses to call out our supposed medical experts for repeatedly discrediting themselves with noble lie after noble lie. Finally, Sen. Marco Rubio has rightly called out Anthony Fauci for lying to the public because our ruling class believes us plebians to be too stupid to understand the actual science about the coronavirus.

QuoteMarco Rubio
@marcorubio
·
Dec 27
Dr. Fauci lied about masks in March

Dr. Fauci has been distorting the level of vaccination needed for herd immunity

It isn't just him

Many in elite bubbles believe the American public doesn't know "what's good for them" so they need to be tricked into "doing the right thing"

In the year since the Chinese Communist Party unleashed the novel coronavirus across the globe, we've learned an abundance about the virus that could have informed far less onerous mitigation measures. If we had known as we do now that young children are not significant vectors spreading the virus, we would have never shut down the kindergartens and elementary schools. If we had known that the outdoors, especially in direct sunlight, are orders of magnitude safer than indoors, we would have never closed off beaches and hiking trails, and city centers would have almost certainly closed off streets to allow restaurants greater capacity for outdoor dining.

The one thing we did know was likely, if not absolutely, true about was that masks could reduce the transmission of the novel coronavirus, just as they did for other serious coronaviruses such as the SARS and MERS viruses.

Even before we shut a single business, as news of the CCP welding doors in Wuhan shut and mass deaths overriding hospitals in Hubei trickled across the Pacific, public health officials could have encouraged people to wear simple cloth masks when going into crowded areas. After all, not only did we know that as with nearly all airborne respiratory diseases, masks have been effective at preventing other types of coronavirus transmission, but also that studies of much smaller microorganisms than the novel coronavirus clearly demonstrated homemade masks efficacy against transmission.

And yet, the medical expert establishment knowingly decided to lie to the public about our cheapest and easiest tool to slow coronavirus transmission. As late as March, Fauci was telling the public that they had "no reason" to wear a mask, only admitting that this was a willful and deliberate lie many months later.

"[W]e were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply," Fauci said in a June interview. "And we wanted to make sure that the people, namely, the healthcare workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected."

Now the nation's leading epidemiology expert has confessed that he knowingly lied about the percentage of the public with coronavirus resistance required to achieve herd immunity.

"Dr. Fauci acknowledged that he had slowly but deliberately been moving the goal posts," the New York Times reported on Christmas Eve. "He is doing so, he said, partly based on new science, and partly on his gut feeling that the country is finally ready to hear what he really thinks."

Although Fauci once said he believed herd immunity required around three-quarters of the public to have resistance to the coronavirus, he admitted to the New York Times that he's believed the figure to be up to 90%.

Fauci may believe that this is the only way to get the public to go along with the science, but in truth, it's why the backlash to "expert" advice has been so strong.

Almost a year into 15 days to slow the spread, and even the most benevolent of us are fed up with being lied to. Our last remaining bastion of credibility sullied theirs because of the sense that we were too stupid to follow fact-driven guidance, and we're paying for it in record coronavirus deaths.

Just imagine if this pandemic started with mass mask-wearing and limited business shutdowns akin to Taiwan? It would have prevented the community transmission that turned the virus into a national pandemic and kept the simple act of wearing a mask from becoming politicized. With more realistic standards set for social distancing and guidelines, the population would have been paced enough that perhaps tyrannical shutdowns and personal lockdown fatigues in places such as California wouldn't be driving people to socialize solely in multigenerational superspreader gatherings in cramped households.

Alas, the experts lied and people died. Rubio is just the one member of the ruling class with the stones to call a spade a spade.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 29, 2020, 12:01:24 PM
It's a bit bizarre to argue now that the US should have pushed harder on mask usage in March when: (1) we know pretty conclusively now that many Americans refuse to wear them and (2) there weren't enough at the time for universal usage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 29, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 29, 2020, 12:01:24 PM
It's a bit bizarre to argue now that the US should have pushed harder on mask usage in March when: (1) we know pretty conclusively now that many Americans refuse to wear them and (2) there weren't enough at the time for universal usage.
I think the point is that he deliberately was.... slightly less than truthful and then admitted it.  AT some point people get irritated. Especially when bombarded by constant mockery by the fakeass patriots who are screaming that it is the mark of the beast.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 29, 2020, 04:10:24 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 29, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
I think the point is that he deliberately was.... slightly less than truthful and then admitted it.  AT some point people get irritated. Especially when bombarded by constant mockery by the fakeass patriots who are screaming that it is the mark of the beast.

Actually, he seems to have believed in March (as did Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House task force coordinator. the head of the CDC, and the WHO) that the unintended consequences of people touching their face was more a risk than the benefit warranted, and that's what he said in mid-March.  He also mentioned the need to supply existing masks to health care workers and first responders.  Late in March it became clear that asymptomatic people could spread the virus just through things like breathing and talking, and he reversed course by April 3rd.  There's zero evidence that he "deliberately was.... slightly less than truthful and then admitted it," though the right seems to like that as a talking point.

People get irritated at inconvenient truths because they want to get irritated.  Facts cannot dissuade them from being irritated, and they will seize on any excuse to do whatever the hell they want to do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on December 29, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 29, 2020, 12:01:24 PM
It's a bit bizarre to argue now that the US should have pushed harder on mask usage in March when: (1) we know pretty conclusively now that many Americans refuse to wear them and (2) there weren't enough at the time for universal usage.

You are nuts. I'm bombarded with messages to wear masks, and while I see many people ignoring those messages, but dramatically more people wearing masks than in March. Usage would have gone way up in March if people were clearly told to wear masks.

Plenty of people are wearing homemade masks, and there were enough for less than universal coverage.

Bottom line is that earlier and clearer communication to wear masks would have increased usage, and slowed disease spread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 29, 2020, 05:36:20 PM
Speaking of homemade masks, is it time now to say that used underwear on your face doesn't count as a mask, please use a surgical mask?  I think we have plenty of surgical masks available by now, there are enough for everyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 29, 2020, 06:51:05 PM
Fauci said, in that March 9th interview that Lyin' Marco harped on that:
QuoteFAUCI: Of course, but when you think "masks," you should think of health care providers needing them and people who are ill. The people — when you look at the films of countries, and you see 85% of the people wearing masks, that's fine. That's fine. I'm not against it. If you want to do it, that's fine.

HOST: But it can lead to a shortage.

FAUCI: Exactly, that's the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/28/marco-rubio/marco-rubio-says-anthony-fauci-lied-about-masks-fa/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/28/marco-rubio/marco-rubio-says-anthony-fauci-lied-about-masks-fa/)

Idiots seem to think "he deliberately was.... slightly less than truthful and then admitted it" but the facts show the idiots to be wrong.  He was absolutely not against wearing masks (and said so in so many words), he just thought that the time for widespread mask usage was not early March.

The US government absolutely fucked up the mask supply issue, but that's not on Fauci's head.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 29, 2020, 06:52:40 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 29, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
You are nuts. I'm bombarded with messages to wear masks, and while I see many people ignoring those messages, but dramatically more people wearing masks than in March. Usage would have gone way up in March if people were clearly told to wear masks.

Plenty of people are wearing homemade masks, and there were enough for less than universal coverage.

Bottom line is that earlier and clearer communication to wear masks would have increased usage, and slowed disease spread.

People were told to wear masks on April 3rd.  Thinking that issuing that directive three days earlier would have been the game-changer is dumb.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 30, 2020, 09:00:24 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 29, 2020, 04:10:24 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 29, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
I think the point is that he deliberately was.... slightly less than truthful and then admitted it.  AT some point people get irritated. Especially when bombarded by constant mockery by the fakeass patriots who are screaming that it is the mark of the beast.

Actually, he seems to have believed in March (as did Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House task force coordinator. the head of the CDC, and the WHO) that the unintended consequences of people touching their face was more a risk than the benefit warranted, and that's what he said in mid-March.  He also mentioned the need to supply existing masks to health care workers and first responders.  Late in March it became clear that asymptomatic people could spread the virus just through things like breathing and talking, and he reversed course by April 3rd.  There's zero evidence that he "deliberately was.... slightly less than truthful and then admitted it," though the right seems to like that as a talking point.

People get irritated at inconvenient truths because they want to get irritated.  Facts cannot dissuade them from being irritated, and they will seize on any excuse to do whatever the hell they want to do.
People hear that and assume its a deliberate lie.  The nuance that doctors are learning while an event is going on is lost in a blaze of social media outrage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 31, 2020, 11:32:34 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/134570982_10221646464648539_1332220597531203837_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=bpZo-iGoNg8AX-Xh3l_&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5ea7253b2771740fe773f9118c64b796&oe=60144FB5)

This is ... something. :lol: :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 31, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Now, now. No need to kink-shame.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on December 31, 2020, 11:38:58 AM
Trump is not even a father figure for his own children.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 31, 2020, 11:55:57 AM
It doesn't even work on its own premise.  If Pelosi and Schumer are spoiled entitled teenagers who need a strong father figure, shouldn't that strong father figure (sic) make them stop acting like spoiled entitled teenagers?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 31, 2020, 12:04:18 PM
Well, that's as naked a call for Paternalism as you can get.

Is the same Donald Trump that is in the white house?  The one that has been throwing a fit over the election he lost for about two months?  The Donald Trump that has for years whined about how unfair it is?  The one that denigrates the disabled and talks about the size of his dick during a debate?

Trump isn't a "strict father", though he may be a merciless Godfather.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 01, 2021, 07:49:48 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 31, 2020, 12:04:18 PM
Well, that's as naked a call for Paternalism as you can get.

Is the same Donald Trump that is in the white house?  The one that has been throwing a fit over the election he lost for about two months?  The Donald Trump that has for years whined about how unfair it is?  The one that denigrates the disabled and talks about the size of his dick during a debate?

Trump isn't a "strict father", though he may be a merciless Godfather.
He's like the super strict wackjob from the StepFather movies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 06, 2021, 11:27:58 AM
Shared by my brother in law.

https://thenewamerican.com/data-scientists-show-more-than-432000-trump-votes-removed-in-pennsylvania/?fbclid=IwAR2tzmlas5cOuRWkxUA2ycU9IaudCrDjXtbPQGmAPiYzi-B-m391w0dPIEM

QuoteData Scientists Show More Than 432,000 Trump Votes Removed in Pennsylvania

As allegations of voter fraud continue to come forward — only to be dismissed out of hand by Democrats — a group of data scientists with the Data Integrity Group say they have uncovered evidence that more than 432,000 Trump votes were nixed in Pennsylvania. Those vote removals happened during the vote tabulation process, and this happened in at least 15 counties across Pennsylvania, according to a report by The Epoch Times.

That report includes a video presentation from those data scientists that shows the breakdown of the removed votes. The report states that vote removals included both Election Day (in-person) votes and absentee votes:

QuoteThe group said that Election Day vote removals happened during the vote tabulation process in at least 15 counties, including Lehigh County, Chester County, Allegheny County, Armstrong County, Westmoreland County, Northampton County, Delaware County, Montgomery County, Lackawanna County, Dauphin County, Pike County, Carbon County, Washington County, Erie County, and Luzerne County.

Meanwhile, absentee vote removals happened in Allegheny County, Chester County, and Lehigh County.

At least 432,116 votes — 213,707 election day votes and 218,409 absentee votes — were removed in total.

It goes on to say that though there were "vote movements across all candidates," there was one major difference. "We did not see the same type of negative decrements to any of the [other] candidates that we saw with President Trump's tallies, and they happened repeatedly with no explanation," Lynda McLaughlin, a member of the group, told The Epoch Times.

And while — as stated above — Democrats have dismissed claims of election fraud without so much as a passing glance at the evidence, it should be noted that the Data Integrity Group is not a consortium of tinfoil-hat-wearing fringe lunatics. On the contrary, their bona fides are impressive. As The Epoch Times reported:

QuoteThe Data Integrity Group is a group of scientists, engineers, and machine learning experts who have been working together to check whether or not there was manipulation of data in the 2020 general election.

The group's lineup of data scientists includes Justin Mealey and Dave Lobue.

Mealey is a nine-year veteran of the U.S. Navy, where he worked as an electronic warfare technician, cryptologic technician, and Arabic linguist. He worked at the NSA as a mission manager for Levant/North Africa and later worked as a CIA contractor at the National Counter-Terrorism Center.

Lobue has 12 years of experience in data science and machine learning across financial services, telecommunications, and research consulting industries. He currently specializes in artificial intelligence applications.

This is a far cry from the wild, unsubstantiated claims Democrats and their mainstream-media accomplices made about election fraud during the 2016 election. Only then, those claims led the news cycles as "facts" — though no evidence was ever offered to prove their claims.

And the Data Integrity Group is careful to stick to verifiable facts and demonstrable data. Not making claims about blame or jumping to any conclusions about what may have caused the removal of the votes, the group told The Epoch Times, "The bottom line is the errors were made. Data confirms these errors and it shouldn't matter if they were machine or human, they're still errors and deserve a second review and thorough analysis with forensic audits to find the answers."

Indeed. But Democrats and other establishment types do not appear to want answers. They already have the only "answer" they want: Biden won according to the count, and that is that. Nothing else to see here, folks.

As such, the report from The Epoch Times states:

QuotePennsylvania's electors cast their votes for Biden and Kamala Harris as president-elect and vice president-elect on Dec. 14, 2020.

State-certified results show Biden won the Keystone State by 80,555 votes.

But, if 432,000 Trump votes were removed, that 80,555 gap closes considerably. And — here, this writer will speculate, though given what is known, the speculation is not wild — if any sizable number of those votes were counted for Biden, that gap may disappear altogether, meaning that Trump actually won Pennsylvania.

To show that such a possibility is not a stretch, consider that — as The Epoch Times reported — a widely-circulated video clip of CNN's live election night broadcast shows 19,958 votes being switched from Trump to Biden in 30 seconds.

That "oops" moment was brought to you by Edison Research and was corrected. But then that error was broadcast nation-wide on CNN. How many such errors were not seen on your television and computer screens and therefore not corrected?

None of this is about partisan politics and which candidate won. Instead, it is about the integrity of the entire election process. If the establishment can simply slap its imprimatur on a victory that has so many unaddressed problems stemming from what appears to any honest person to be fraud, then moving forward, the United States has an election system that makes banana republics look honest by comparison.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 06, 2021, 11:34:20 AM
QuoteBut, if 432,000 Trump votes were removed, that 80,555 gap closes considerably.

:lol: I love it when stupid people want to sound all sophisticated-like. Yes, mate, if you had 400 more, that gap of 80 would, indeed, be considerably closed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 06, 2021, 11:35:58 AM
Well if it was reported in the Epoch Times it must be true!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2021, 11:37:09 AM
It's a weird twist that a Falun Gong newspaper decided to be a Trump mouthpiece.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 06, 2021, 11:42:57 AM
Just a reminder that sometimes people are opposed to oppression not out of principle, but because that oppression is aimed against them.  Myanmar was a very sad example of that.  Same goes for many Soviet Jewish immigrants, who embraced virulent racism and everything that goes with it almost as soon as they left USSR.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 06, 2021, 01:05:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2021, 11:37:09 AM
It's a weird twist that a Falun Gong newspaper decided to be a Trump mouthpiece.

I guess there is just something about weird East Asian cults that drives them in to conservative causes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2021, 01:11:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 06, 2021, 01:05:57 PM
I guess there is just something about weird East Asian cults that drives them in to conservative causes.

Aum Shinrikyo never started a conservative newspaper. :nerd:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 06, 2021, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2021, 11:37:09 AM
It's a weird twist that a Falun Gong newspaper decided to be a Trump mouthpiece.

I've noticed that from "China uncovered" on YouTube. They used to be interesting. Now they're just so... Nutty. They've a channel called America uncovered too which gets very trumpy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2021, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 06, 2021, 01:27:33 PM
I've noticed that from "China uncovered" on YouTube. They used to be interesting. Now they're just so... Nutty. They've a channel called America uncovered too which gets very trumpy.

Do you mean the paper or the cult used to be interesting?  Because the cult has always been nutty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 06, 2021, 01:37:05 PM
He is talking about a Youtube channel. I don't know how connected it is to Falun Gong if at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 06, 2021, 02:23:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 06, 2021, 01:37:05 PM
He is talking about a Youtube channel. I don't know how connected it is to Falun Gong if at all.
They run it.

And yeah. The channel used to be interesting.

The group being nutty.... Meh. No more than any other religious group.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 07, 2021, 02:15:39 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2021, 11:37:09 AM
It's a weird twist that a Falun Gong newspaper decided to be a Trump mouthpiece.

Two reasons for that:

1) Anti-CCP Chinese are easily taken in by Trump's rhetoric. They think he's the one who's going to take a hard line with Xi and China and they don't really care about or understand internal US politics.

2) IIRC, when the Falun Gong folks tried to improve the Epoch Times' operations and reach the people they hired where US right wing political operatives of a flavour that went hard for Trump when he showed up. Quite possibly for reasons related to #1 (anti-CCP Chinese folks tend to take Republican chicken-hawk posturing at face value).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 07, 2021, 02:48:18 AM
You're alive?!?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 07, 2021, 02:50:06 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 07, 2021, 02:15:39 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2021, 11:37:09 AM
It's a weird twist that a Falun Gong newspaper decided to be a Trump mouthpiece.

Two reasons for that:

1) Anti-CCP Chinese are easily taken in by Trump's rhetoric. They think he's the one who's going to take a hard line with Xi and China and they don't really care about or understand internal US politics.

2) IIRC, when the Falun Gong folks tried to improve the Epoch Times' operations and reach the people they hired where US right wing political operatives of a flavour that went hard for Trump when he showed up. Quite possibly for reasons related to #1 (anti-CCP Chinese folks tend to take Republican chicken-hawk posturing at face value).

Jake! :o :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 07, 2021, 02:54:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 07, 2021, 02:50:06 AM
Jake! :o :hug:

Syt! :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 07, 2021, 03:54:24 AM
:o :w00t:
Finally something good in this awful awful year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 07, 2021, 04:11:06 AM
It is really good to see you Jake :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 07, 2021, 04:26:03 AM
Hi Jake! :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 07, 2021, 10:37:27 AM
:cheers:

It's been a while, eh? I started a thread to catch up :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 08, 2021, 01:45:42 AM
Not by my family (who have been pointedly silent, besides my brother in law sharing Ted Cruz's senate speech from Wednesday), but I like to think the below is accurate:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErLg-PmXYAANdSr?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 08, 2021, 06:14:58 AM
Has anyone seen much sign of the "These are heroes!" and the "These are antifa crisis actors!" sides clashing?



(https://i.ibb.co/B6dqTrk/135833267-10158184587264055-8072272190457372933-n.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on January 08, 2021, 06:22:47 AM
I saw that pic with the comment "Trump supporters realizing why walls don't work".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 08, 2021, 09:56:38 AM
Shared by my sister:

QuoteLet me just say this very loud and clear so y'all can hear it way back in the back of the room.

I will never forget or forgive the hatred towards the President of the USA and us his supporters! I will never forget or forgive what democrats and RINOS are calling for now!

"As most anyone whose read my post, I think 'at times' I've hinted as to where my political affinity lies. So given my 'slight'  discomfort with a Joe Biden presidency, I think it only right to call a Spade a Spade and give some equal time analysis to his Pompous, Arrogant, and Bombastic opponent!

I have listened to everyone else's hatred, rhetoric and outright lies for the last four years, so now I am having my say.  If you don't like it, you know where the delete button is.

Let me be clear, I am not a Biden fan. I think he is corrupt, a liar, a racist bigot, is in bed with China and probably suffering from dementia.  He has done nothing to improve anything in his 47-year political career.  But what has Trump done in the past 4 years?

The "arrogant" man in the White House brokered FOUR Middle East Peace Accords, something that 71 years of political intervention and endless war failed to produce.  READ THAT AGAIN.

The "buffoon" in the White House is the first president that has not engaged us in a foreign WAR since Eisenhower.

The "racist" in the White House has had the greatest impact on the economy, bringing jobs, and lowering unemployment to the Black and Latino population of ANY other president. EVER.

The "liar" in the White House has exposed the deep, widespread, and long-standing corruption in the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and the Republican and Democratic parties.

The "buffoon" in the White House turned NATO around and had them start paying their dues.

The "fool" in the White House neutralized the North Koreans and stopped them sending missiles toward Japan, and threatening the West Coast of the US.

The "xenophobe" in the White House turned our relationship with the Chinese around, brought hundreds of business back to the US, and revived the economy TO THE BEST ITS EVER BEEN.

This same "clown" lowered your taxes, increased the standard deduction on your IRS return from $12,500 to $24,400  for married couples and caused the stock market to rise to record levels, positively impacting the retirement accounts of tens of millions of citizens.

The "clown" in the White House fast-tracked the development of multiple COVID Vaccines which are now available or will be soon.  And YET! we still don't have a vaccine for SARS, Bird Flu, Ebola, or a host of diseases that arose during previous administrations.

The "clown" in the White House rebuilt our military which the Obama administration crippled and fired 214 key generals and admirals in his first year of office.

I got it, you don't like him. Many of you utterly hate and despise him. How special of you. He is serving you and ALL the American people. What are you doing besides calling him names and laughing about him catching the China virus?  Some of you were even hoping that COVID would be the cause of his demise. (Ah, the left.  The party of "tolerance". )

Please educate me again as to what Biden has accomplished for America in his 47 years in office, besides making the whole Biden family richer?  By the way, where is Hunter?

I'll take the "clown" any day versus a fork tongued, smooth talking hypocritical corrupt liar.  I want a strong leader who isn't afraid to kick some ass when needed. I don't need a fatherly figure.  I don't need a liar.  That's what Hollywood, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and the New York Times are for.

Call me a chump, a racist, or part of the basket of deplorables in a cult. I do not care!

God bless Donald Trump - the best, most unappreciated President in U.S. history."

Feel free to copy/paste, ..🇺🇸

Her husband:

QuoteComparing the capital breach with 911 is despicable. We have politicians saying they feel the same as when thousands of Americans died from a terrorist attack.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on January 08, 2021, 10:15:07 AM
I dunno man, she's your sister so do what feels right to you, but if this was my sister and she was STILL posting shit like this, she'd be blocked by me in every way and I'd never speak to her again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 08, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Well, we already don't talk, so ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on January 08, 2021, 10:18:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 08, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Well, we already don't talk, so ...
Then why still follow her?  Just want to watch out of morbid curiosity? :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 08, 2021, 10:19:06 AM
Basically. And for my smug sense of superiority. -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on January 08, 2021, 10:23:22 AM
 :lol:

I understand.  There's a guy in Louisville called Holy Smokes, the Barbecue Cowboy who, in better times, I used to buy outstanding brisket and pulled pork from (he has a food truck).  Since the Trump era began he's become an extreme right wing nut and while I'd never buy food from him again, I still follow him since he's by far the most extreme person on my friends list and I figure it's good to hear the other side's "views" from time to time.

Like the other day he was lamenting how Savage Nation just went off the air. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 08, 2021, 02:41:45 PM
Quote from: Caliga on January 08, 2021, 10:23:22 AM
:lol:

I understand.  There's a guy in Louisville called Holy Smokes, the Barbecue Cowboy who, in better times, I used to buy outstanding brisket and pulled pork from (he has a food truck).  Since the Trump era began he's become an extreme right wing nut and while I'd never buy food from him again, I still follow him since he's by far the most extreme person on my friends list and I figure it's good to hear the other side's "views" from time to time.

Like the other day he was lamenting how Savage Nation just went off the air. :bleeding:
I remember him. Foaming at the mouth about needing to bring the Alien and Sedition Act back. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on January 08, 2021, 02:53:56 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 08, 2021, 02:41:45 PM
I remember him. Foaming at the mouth about needing to bring the Alien and Sedition Act back.
:hmm:

You remember Michael Savage or Holy Smokes, The Barbecue Cowboy?  :hmm: :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 08, 2021, 03:12:56 PM
Michael Savage was such an up front racist and nut, he kind of woke me up that maybe racism wasn't entirely dead yet and in fact was prospering.

I remember him going off on this black police chief, sure he was an incompetent who only got his position due to affirmative action...without any reason to do so. At the time it was bizarre and upsetting. Now I would just shrug, as being another day on the internet.

But back in the early 2000s it was kind of shocking, at least to suburbanite young white dude me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 08, 2021, 03:34:01 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/135503554_10158915800730688_2340164092457217033_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TbANlbHjcooAX9_R27F&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=6f0df61f98b22b32cafce9ce20e0d364&oe=601C969E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 08, 2021, 03:36:13 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 08, 2021, 03:34:01 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/135503554_10158915800730688_2340164092457217033_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TbANlbHjcooAX9_R27F&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=6f0df61f98b22b32cafce9ce20e0d364&oe=601C969E)

10,000+ pieces is 6+? :yeahright:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 08, 2021, 07:03:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 08, 2021, 03:36:13 PM
10,000+ pieces is 6+? :yeahright:

:huh:  It's a lot more than 6.  Like 9,994+ more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 08, 2021, 08:06:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 08, 2021, 03:36:13 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 08, 2021, 03:34:01 PM
(https://scontent.fymq2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/135503554_10158915800730688_2340164092457217033_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TbANlbHjcooAX9_R27F&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq2-1.fna&oh=6f0df61f98b22b32cafce9ce20e0d364&oe=601C969E)

10,000+ pieces is 6+? :yeahright:

Well, my goddaughter just received a 20 000 pieces puzzle for her 8th birthday, the 10 000 ones were way too easy :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 08, 2021, 08:36:51 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 08, 2021, 03:36:13 PM

10,000+ pieces is 6+? :yeahright:

Maybe a number associated with neo-nazis or hitler? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on January 08, 2021, 09:34:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 08, 2021, 03:12:56 PM
Michael Savage was such an up front racist and nut, he kind of woke me up that maybe racism wasn't entirely dead yet and in fact was prospering.

I remember him going off on this black police chief, sure he was an incompetent who only got his position due to affirmative action...without any reason to do so. At the time it was bizarre and upsetting. Now I would just shrug, as being another day on the internet.

But back in the early 2000s it was kind of shocking, at least to suburbanite young white dude me.
I was hoping you were going to say you remember Holy Smokes. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 08, 2021, 10:22:02 PM
No, I have never been to Louisville :console:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 09, 2021, 01:06:54 AM
Oh great. My sister has discovered Parler. :bleeding:

QuotePhil Robertson
·
@officialphilrobertson
2 weeks ago
·
Impressions
1673302
Politicians put people out of work, killed small businesses & said it was to protect us. And now Congress wants to send Americans $600 for their troubles?

Seems like it's the heavy boot of big government we need protection from. We've had just about enough of passing the bill to find out what's in it.

Here's what I know: One kingdom-minded redneck can help a down-and-out redneck better than the government ever could. If we let ungodly legislators determine how to spend our money, there's no doubt our money will be used for ungodly ends.

I'll never put my faith in a pork-filled bill so heavy it has to be wheeled around. I'm going with Jesus Politics instead.

It's time to fight for the right to use our money to care for the poor, minister to the needy & advance the message of Jesus. That's exactly what Jesus asks of us & it's what my book Jesus Politics is all about.

QuoteDavid Harris Jr.
·
@David
7 hours ago
·
Impressions
865101
This is why everyone is getting kicked off of Tw and Fb! And why @Parler is being threatened! Watch this video and share it now via text and email!

Website Image
This is why the Capitol chaos was created!
This is why the Capitol chaos was created! It was all a smoke screen to deflect attention away from this!

https://rumble.com/vcjcox-this-is-why-the-capitol-chaos-was-created.html?mref=7ch9&mc=1xynn
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 09, 2021, 02:55:54 PM
QuoteThey are censoring conservatives, why is BLM still active on Facebook and Twitter? Why can you still download the BLM app on Samsung and Apple devices?
BLM used these sites to organize riots, looting, and attacks on innocent people. There was no peaceful protest.
They burned down buildings and did over $3 Billion dollars in damage to public and private property,and the Media said nothing they only said it was their right to have their voices heard. Kamala Harris even raised funds to get the rioters who were arrested released from jail. She even said on National TV that they will not and should never stop.
It's time for Facebook and Twitter to be broken up.
They have formed a monopoly over social media platforms - controlling almost ALL social media communications in the United States. (Facebook, Facebook Messenger, What's App, Instagram, and Twitter).
AT&T was broken up because it had almost total control over communication technology in the country, which led to the antitrust case, United States v. AT&T.
It's time to do the same to Zuckerberg and Dorsey!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 09, 2021, 02:57:51 PM
There doesn't appear to be any BLM app worth downloading if number of downloads/user reviews are a guide. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 09, 2021, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 09, 2021, 02:57:51 PM
There doesn't appear to be any BLM app worth downloading if number of downloads/user reviews are a guide. :(

Facts! That's cute. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 09, 2021, 03:04:24 PM
I was a bit excited to be like oh yay I've learned about a BLM app from this but alas. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 09, 2021, 03:18:03 PM
It's funny how they can't decide if BLM or antifa are the shadowy villain.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 09, 2021, 03:56:12 PM
Anyways, the timeline is now filling with "liberal hatespeech is permitted and reasonable conservatives are censored!!!" and "but BLM!!!"

I did like this snippet, though:

QuoteLooking back over the years it was the libs and their weird way of thinking that told our children their ideological beliefs.....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 09, 2021, 08:14:03 PM
Quote from: Caliga on January 08, 2021, 09:34:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 08, 2021, 03:12:56 PM
Michael Savage was such an up front racist and nut, he kind of woke me up that maybe racism wasn't entirely dead yet and in fact was prospering.

I remember him going off on this black police chief, sure he was an incompetent who only got his position due to affirmative action...without any reason to do so. At the time it was bizarre and upsetting. Now I would just shrug, as being another day on the internet.

But back in the early 2000s it was kind of shocking, at least to suburbanite young white dude me.
I was hoping you were going to say you remember Holy Smokes. :(
No, I don't. Savage though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 10, 2021, 01:23:32 AM
From my two oldest sisters:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/107099704_4341812172510479_7668514708061357720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=JF4vLBB7NXcAX-xXRPs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=92fb81ada4659109042ea62b8d9d82a1&oe=601ECF49)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 10, 2021, 06:20:58 AM
Comeon. Unfriend me! Go on a rant about my patriotism offending you! Please! please.... someone....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 10, 2021, 12:57:04 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 10, 2021, 01:23:32 AM
From my two oldest sisters:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/107099704_4341812172510479_7668514708061357720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=JF4vLBB7NXcAX-xXRPs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=92fb81ada4659109042ea62b8d9d82a1&oe=601ECF49)

Well at least she agrees black lives matter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 10, 2021, 12:57:40 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 10, 2021, 06:20:58 AM
Comeon. Unfriend me! Go on a rant about my patriotism offending you! Please! please.... someone....

:console:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 10, 2021, 01:16:44 PM
Unfriend them because they go to the trouble of creating a poster but don't go to the trouble of learning the rules of grammar and punctuation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 12, 2021, 12:39:06 PM
She forgot to add the asterisks to "pro law enforcement",* "pro military,"** and "pro-life"***

* does not apply within the boundaries of the District of Columbia

** except for the generals, JAG, and any line personnel not committing or supportive of war crimes, and any troops assisting the Kurds. Also do not support any military funding if it can used to build useless fences in the middle of nowhere on the Texas border.

***applies only to pre-born. Actual living persons of any and all ages can pull their weight or fuck off and die.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 12, 2021, 12:40:02 PM
(https://i.redd.it/kypwhfxcgva61.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on January 12, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 08, 2021, 10:22:02 PM
No, I have never been to Louisville :console:
Holy Smokes goes to Texas sometimes.  He has family there.... I forget where but Texas is such a small place I'm sure you've seen him around. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on January 12, 2021, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 10, 2021, 01:16:44 PM
Unfriend them because they go to the trouble of creating a poster but don't go to the trouble of learning the rules of grammar and punctuation.
FUCK, I wanted to make that joke. :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 19, 2021, 07:06:51 PM
Watch until the end (https://twitter.com/Pierre_B_y/status/1350343199622115329?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1350343199622115329%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.clubpoker.net%2Fforum-poker%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FPierre_B_y%2Fstatus%2F1350343199622115329)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 19, 2021, 10:21:09 PM
Dammit!  I have a contribution to make: and from an Auntie I really like. :(

(https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140387359_10159295369719664_2033368292299886311_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=0_62iPvWCSAAX9-qZZV&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=f1764d3b3abc76d77120d926609c5c1e&oe=602EF7C3)

Her and my uncle have been wintering in Arizona for the last 15-20 years or so, and have made friends with some kind of racist friends in their community.  My uncle was always the kind of liked to make racist "jokes" (and I'd be shocked if he was anything but a Trump fan), which my aunt would just give him dirty looks, but she appears to have gone down the Trumpist rabbit hole...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 19, 2021, 10:40:18 PM
Are immigrants Hyenas in this case?

Anyway Scar didn't cheat. That was Monarchy WAD
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 19, 2021, 10:57:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 19, 2021, 10:40:18 PM
Are immigrants Hyenas in this case?

Immigrants and/or minorities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2021, 01:56:32 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/4yYPJv3g/sdc.jpg)

Note: "The left ... their results" - i.e. the election results are made by the left? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 20, 2021, 02:19:03 AM
I don't know man. Are the same people canceling beans and pillows the same people calling for unity? Who exactly does this person consider a leftist? Every person in the world who doesn't like Donald Trump?

Maybe the socialists of the world are all calling for unity with the right. Who knew?

So these kinds of people use non-specific words like "the left" and "they" to just kind of lump all sorts of people with different points of view and agendas together in order to maximize a feeling of victimhood and justify their constant bitching and whining. I swear to God sometimes I wonder if that is the only thing this country is still best in the world at.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
The Left is not calling for unity. The Centre is, again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 20, 2021, 09:39:27 AM
A socialismleftist is anyone who disagrees with a Trumpian type.  You are either a leftist sheep or a leftist satan. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 20, 2021, 09:56:12 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
The Left is not calling for unity. The Centre is, again.
In the eyes of the Trumpy Biden and Marx are much the same.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 20, 2021, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 19, 2021, 10:21:09 PM
Dammit!  I have a contribution to make: and from an Auntie I really like. :

That's kind of exaggerated: Trump was as cowardly as Scar and he certainly brought his corrupt hyenas in DC, but as bad as COVID has been it hasn't  lain waste to the country.  As much as I hate to say it, you should probably respond to say Trump really wasn't  THAT bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 20, 2021, 01:13:17 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 20, 2021, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 19, 2021, 10:21:09 PM
Dammit!  I have a contribution to make: and from an Auntie I really like. :

That's kind of exaggerated: Trump was as cowardly as Scar and he certainly brought his corrupt hyenas in DC, but as bad as COVID has been it hasn't  lain waste to the country.  As much as I hate to say it, you should probably respond to say Trump really wasn't  THAT bad.

Also, while I only watched some of the inauguration ceremonies, I'm pretty sure Biden didn't throw Trump off a cliff and watch as he was eaten by hyenas. But maybe that occurred earlier and I just missed it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 20, 2021, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 20, 2021, 01:13:17 PM
Also, while I only watched some of the inauguration ceremonies, I'm pretty sure Biden didn't throw Trump off a cliff and watch as he was eaten by hyenas. But maybe that occurred earlier and I just missed it.

No Trump's fate was far worse than eaten by hyenas: exiled to Florida to the sounds of the Village People.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2021, 03:06:14 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/TwgQKr8v/pp.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 20, 2021, 03:14:59 PM
That would certainly increase the chances of him getting impeached, I reckon.

If he does do that, I expect he can probably pull over a number of GOP operatives and voters, but there is a lot of organizational infrastructure he'd have to build from close to scratch. Given the Trumpist penchant for grifting and incompetence, I don't expect it to work out that well.

In summary: oh no! Not the briar patch!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 20, 2021, 03:16:23 PM
Less a folly and more like...Greenwald has come around on criticizing Trump:

(https://i.ibb.co/HFN59nb/image.png) (https://ibb.co/2n8GpgC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 20, 2021, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 20, 2021, 03:16:23 PM
Less a folly and more like...Greenwald has come around on criticizing Trump:

It's because he's pissed Trump didn't pardon Assange and Snowden.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 20, 2021, 03:20:56 PM
There was much unjustified hope on the left that somehow Trump would do something similar to Obama's surprise clemency for Chelsea Manning in 2017. Nope.

I do wish we would dump the Espionage Act. Snowden has said he would come back and face charges if we just got rid of that shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 20, 2021, 04:23:59 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
The Left is not calling for unity. The Centre is, again.

The only person calling for unity is Biden, because that's his job.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 20, 2021, 05:04:16 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 20, 2021, 03:14:59 PM
That would certainly increase the chances of him getting impeached, I reckon.

That's the point. He's using the threat in the hope the GOP Senators will fall in line for him.  "We'll see what happens . . ."
So predictable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 20, 2021, 07:00:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 20, 2021, 02:19:03 AM
I don't know man. Are the same people canceling beans and pillows the same people calling for unity? Who exactly does this person consider a leftist? Every person in the world who doesn't like Donald Trump?
After 4 years, you still need to ask?

Quote
Maybe the socialists of the world are all calling for unity with the right. Who knew?
That's kinda like the other thread, where someone posted that Conservatives/Evangelical aren't entirely racists, because they willingly accept blacks/hispanics/others as long as they adhere to their ideal vision of society.The socialists of the world are all calling for unity with the right, but you'd be delusional in thinking it means they want to make compromises and reach them halfway.
And anyway, on some issues, I would personally find it unbearable. And I'm apparantly a commie-lover nowadays, so I guess, I'm the socialist who has to make compromises with the Trumpists.  And on 99% of the issues, that's just a big no.  Besides, I doubt they'd even want that unity if it meant sacrificing ideological purity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 20, 2021, 07:15:47 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
The Left is not calling for unity. The Centre is, again.
see, YOU get it.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 20, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 20, 2021, 04:23:59 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
The Left is not calling for unity. The Centre is, again.

The only person calling for unity is Biden, because that's his job.
-Remember when I said I wanted to be in your shoes?
- Yeah, why?
- Now I don't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 20, 2021, 10:29:46 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 20, 2021, 09:56:12 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
The Left is not calling for unity. The Centre is, again.
In the eyes of the Trumpy Biden and Marx are much the same.
it's about what I heard on radio this afternoon: "... a continuation of Obama's policy, with him the real shadow power, a communist America that is sure to please Lady Gaga".

Even I wouldn't label Obama and Biden as commie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 20, 2021, 10:30:00 PM
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f84/15/65/04/57/14055710.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 10:31:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 20, 2021, 07:15:47 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
The Left is not calling for unity. The Centre is, again.
see, YOU get it.  ;)
Well of course. I don't want unity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 21, 2021, 11:16:52 AM
Quote from: viper37 on January 20, 2021, 10:29:46 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 20, 2021, 09:56:12 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
The Left is not calling for unity. The Centre is, again.
In the eyes of the Trumpy Biden and Marx are much the same.
it's about what I heard on radio this afternoon: "... a continuation of Obama's policy, with him the real shadow power, a communist America that is sure to please Lady Gaga".

Even I wouldn't label Obama and Biden as commie.
Well what's important is that Lady Gaga - soon to be Queen Commie Gaga - is pleased.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on January 21, 2021, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 21, 2021, 11:16:52 AM
Quote from: viper37 on January 20, 2021, 10:29:46 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 20, 2021, 09:56:12 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 20, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
The Left is not calling for unity. The Centre is, again.
In the eyes of the Trumpy Biden and Marx are much the same.
it's about what I heard on radio this afternoon: "... a continuation of Obama's policy, with him the real shadow power, a communist America that is sure to please Lady Gaga".

Even I wouldn't label Obama and Biden as commie.
Well what's important is that Lady Gaga - soon to be Queen Commie Gaga - is pleased.

I haven't been able to find that comic book on the shelves yet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2021, 12:04:29 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/V6Ft8nLL/bb2.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y0qWq0hN/bb1.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 21, 2021, 12:51:56 PM
Cry more, GOPtards.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 21, 2021, 01:03:15 PM
We should be fine.  Remember, Trump threw out all the illegals and no more can get in because of the impervious wall.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 21, 2021, 01:06:24 PM
Where is the caravan now? ETA?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 21, 2021, 01:27:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 21, 2021, 01:06:24 PM
Where is the caravan now? ETA?

Scrap heap I expect. I sold the old Dodge over 15 years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 21, 2021, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 21, 2021, 01:06:24 PM
Where is the caravan now? ETA?

I want to know how much gold we get when it arrives.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 21, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
The nonsensical posts languishites share with us in this thread are a lot less concerning now that the President of the USA does not pay any attention to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2021, 07:13:32 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/143618402_4946724372065391_1816061024237953403_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=qJPtcHzXeTMAX-Qhtb-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=35e15ebe82c59bd122a640b77a7d5b83&oe=60383413)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 29, 2021, 09:28:12 AM
lol yeah your broker refusing to buy shares for you is exactly the same as a platform provider not letting you organise an insurrection.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 10:29:23 AM
I don't understand this gamestop thing, and I suspect she doesn't either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
Apparently people on Reddit have been buying up Gamestop shares to stick it to some rich assholes short-selling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 29, 2021, 11:16:46 AM
Why exactly does short selling invite such disdain?  It seems to be like it's a necessary part of price discovery.  The only issue I can see with that is if short-selling is a massive effort designed to create a self-fulfilling prophecy by causing some sort of liquidity event out of the blue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on January 29, 2021, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: DGuller on January 29, 2021, 11:16:46 AM
Why exactly does short selling invite such disdain?  It seems to be like it's a necessary part of price discovery.  The only issue I can see with that is if short-selling is a massive effort designed to create a self-fulfilling prophecy by causing some sort of liquidity event out of the blue.

Two reasons: first, people don't understand the value of it - it seems like betting for someone else to fail, rather than betting that they succeed, which seems to be inherently mean-spirited.

More importantly, the suspicion exists that the short sellers are not merely passively betting on failure, but betting on failure them taking active steps to ensure that failure happens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
Apparently people on Reddit have been buying up Gamestop shares to stick it to some rich assholes short-selling.


See, you lost me right there.  I don't know what short-selling is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 29, 2021, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
Apparently people on Reddit have been buying up Gamestop shares to stick it to some rich assholes short-selling.


See, you lost me right there.  I don't know what short-selling is.

Watch the movie Trading Places.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 29, 2021, 12:47:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
Apparently people on Reddit have been buying up Gamestop shares to stick it to some rich assholes short-selling.


See, you lost me right there.  I don't know what short-selling is.

Don't sell yourself short.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on January 29, 2021, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
Apparently people on Reddit have been buying up Gamestop shares to stick it to some rich assholes short-selling.


See, you lost me right there.  I don't know what short-selling is.

It's a risky technique for making money on the fall in price of a stock.

Way it works is, I (the short seller) borrows a stock someone else owns. I sell it at the current market price. I am legally obligated to give it back to the person I borrowed it from, at a set date in the future. To do that, I must buy the stock on that date at the price it happens to be then. I am hoping that the price goes down. If it does, I have made some money (the present day price minus the future price).

What happens when the price goes up? Then I lose money. Unfortunately for me, if I bought a lot of stock to short, or other people did, there may be a situation where a lot of people have no choice but to buy - driving the price up artificially. This is a "short squeeze" and if it happens the short sellers get screwed. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 29, 2021, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
Apparently people on Reddit have been buying up Gamestop shares to stick it to some rich assholes short-selling.


See, you lost me right there.  I don't know what short-selling is.

Watch the movie Trading Places.


You can't make me!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 29, 2021, 01:27:53 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 29, 2021, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
Apparently people on Reddit have been buying up Gamestop shares to stick it to some rich assholes short-selling.


See, you lost me right there.  I don't know what short-selling is.

Watch the movie Trading Places.


You can't make me!
We will drive the fuck to your house, plug in a VCR, pop in the tape, and then do some Clockwork Orange shit to force you to watch it through. At which point we will  have a quiz to make sure you absorbed its message. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 01:36:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 29, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 29, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
Apparently people on Reddit have been buying up Gamestop shares to stick it to some rich assholes short-selling.


See, you lost me right there.  I don't know what short-selling is.

an example of Malthus' explanation.


shares are trading at 100, you think they are going to go down to 50 so you short them:

You borrow 1000 shares with a promise to give them back on a date which is not very long in the future (x date)
You immediately sell those shares, so you have 100,000 in cash (lets forget about the fees and interest for simplicity)

Now you watch and wait.

Scenario A - things work out as you guessed it would.  The share value drops to 50 and you purchase 1000 shares at that price to give them back on x date.  That costs you 50,000 and you keep the remaining 50,000.  You count yourself lucky.

Scenario B - You guessed wrong.  The shares don't drop but don't go up too much so when you purchase the shares you don't have to spend too much more than the 100,000 you have.  You thank your lucky stars you did not lose more and you learn not to short stocks.

Scenario C - You really got it wrong.  The share value goes up sharply.  You realize that in order to reduce your losses you need to start buying well before the buy back date so that you can stop your losses.  If there are a number of people in your position the share value goes up even higher because all the short sellers are in effect panic buying.

The main risk with shorting a stock is that your loses are limited only to how high the value of the shares go before you repurchase.  If you buy a stock your loss is limited to the amount you spent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on January 29, 2021, 01:56:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 01:36:54 PM
The main risk with shorting a stock is that your loses are limited only to how high the value of the shares go before you repurchase.  If you buy a stock your loss is limited to the amount you spent.

An interesting collorary is that your gains from a short sale are limited to the amount you initially sold from borrowed stock; if the stock goes to $0 you still can't make more than that first sale.  Long bets, on the other hand, have heoretically unlimited upside.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 01:57:50 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 29, 2021, 01:56:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 01:36:54 PM
The main risk with shorting a stock is that your loses are limited only to how high the value of the shares go before you repurchase.  If you buy a stock your loss is limited to the amount you spent.

An interesting collorary is that your gains from a short sale are limited to the amount you initially sold from borrowed stock; if the stock goes to $0 you still can't make more than that first sale.  Long bets, on the other hand, have heoretically unlimited upside.

exactly, limited gain with unlimited loss potentials.  Needless to say, I have never shorted a stock.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 29, 2021, 02:49:37 PM
Limited upside and unlimited downside is all just a payout pattern.  My industry is all about limited upside (your premium) in exchange for potentially catastrophic downside (a really huge lawsuit judgment, for example).  You just have to make sure you're properly balancing the two, including the tail risk.  I'll take a bet with $5 upside and $100 downside if I get the upside 99% of the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 29, 2021, 02:49:37 PM
Limited upside and unlimited downside is all just a payout pattern.  My industry is all about limited upside (your premium) in exchange for potentially catastrophic downside (a really huge lawsuit judgment, for example).  You just have to make sure you're properly balancing the two, including the tail risk.  I'll take a bet with $5 upside and $100 downside if I get the upside 99% of the time.

Sure, and that is what hedge funds are all about. 

But we are talking about individual investors.  Context.....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on January 30, 2021, 11:14:11 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 29, 2021, 02:49:37 PM
Limited upside and unlimited downside is all just a payout pattern.  My industry is all about limited upside (your premium) in exchange for potentially catastrophic downside (a really huge lawsuit judgment, for example).  You just have to make sure you're properly balancing the two, including the tail risk.  I'll take a bet with $5 upside and $100 downside if I get the upside 99% of the time.

Sure, and that is what hedge funds are all about. 

But we are talking about individual investors.  Context.....

It is plenty appropriate for individual investors who know what they are doing.

For example: A really small company I knew very well had two classes of publicly traded stock. The Motley Fool ran a story about how the company was going to go through the roof, but only referenced one of the two classes. That class of stock took off, while the other class didn't move so much. I understood the differences between the classes of stock, which really didn't justify a major difference in price (and there hadn't been one historically).

I went long the class of stock that didn't move much, and shorted the stock that had gone up like a rocket ship. I ended up with like a 30% return in a few months.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on January 30, 2021, 11:30:50 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2021, 01:57:50 PM

exactly, limited gain with unlimited loss potentials.  Needless to say, I have never shorted a stock.

"Unlimited loss potential" is just the corollary to the "unlimited gain potential" of a long position / the guy buying a share of Gamestop and extrapolating that "might" turn him into a trillionaire.

To use Gamestop as an example, they had 65 million shares outstanding (almost certainly higher now, with stock option exercises and possibly new issuances, but lets hang with the low number). Amazon has a market cap of $1.6 trillion. The idea that Gamestop would ever get a market cap is obviously absurd and won't happen. But if it did, a short position on a share of Gamestop would leave you with a loss of ~$24,000, which while substantial, is still far short of "unlimited".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 01, 2021, 07:27:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/145209855_4065077186838859_5047646374606691338_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=M3MHPZSJRg8AX8vx0fX&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cc4c58b1c2e8a38f580fffa85eb32f94&oe=603D55C9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 01, 2021, 09:41:14 AM
Damn Jews.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 01, 2021, 02:46:31 PM
Next thing you know "they" will shut down the 1980s retro Eddie Murphy look.  And that will be the spark of rebellion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 01, 2021, 02:47:39 PM
They will start charging for soda refills.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 01, 2021, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 01, 2021, 07:27:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/145209855_4065077186838859_5047646374606691338_ng?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=M3MHPZSJRg8AX8vx0fX&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cc4c58b1c2e8a38f580fffa85eb32f94&oe=603D55C9)

This one looks to be from the opposite side of the political spectrum to syts usual :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 01, 2021, 04:19:32 PM
Which five states? The only time I recall a vote count being shutdown was the Florida recount in 2000 :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on February 01, 2021, 04:23:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 01, 2021, 04:19:32 PM
Which five states? The only time I recall a vote count being shutdown was the Florida recount in 2000 :hmm:

Apathy, Idiocy, Denial, Confusion, and Hope.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 01, 2021, 04:26:56 PM
Trump needed 5 to flip.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 01, 2021, 04:35:52 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 01, 2021, 04:26:56 PM
Trump needed 5 to flip.

Yeah but neither was the vote count stopped nor was it not going the Democrats way :P

Well maybe it was not going their way in Arizona. That got tight.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 01, 2021, 04:48:54 PM
"They" lost the presidential election and then control of the Senate, so "they" didn't get their way, thank Hod.

"They" didn't succeed in shutting down democracy, either, though that was closer, and it wasn't for lack of insurrection.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 01, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 01, 2021, 04:23:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 01, 2021, 04:19:32 PM
Which five states? The only time I recall a vote count being shutdown was the Florida recount in 2000 :hmm:

Apathy, Idiocy, Denial, Confusion, and Hope.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 01, 2021, 05:36:49 PM
As usual I would like to know who this all powerful They is.  And ask them why They have done such a poor job controlling things.

Very similar to the questions I will ask God if it turns out God actually exists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 01, 2021, 06:08:47 PM
The Cabal. It's an organization created & controlled by the Rockefellers in America and the Rothschild in Europe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 01, 2021, 06:40:38 PM
I will say one good thing about Hitler and Co. They called a Jew a Jew.
Sure they had their own dog whistles, but by modern standards they were clear.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 01, 2021, 11:27:54 PM
I think most Jews would have preferred the dog whistles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 01, 2021, 11:38:56 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 01, 2021, 05:36:49 PM
As usual I would like to know who this all powerful They is.
you will know when They're coming for you!  :shutup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 01, 2021, 11:40:55 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 01, 2021, 06:40:38 PM
I will say one good thing about Hitler and Co. They called a Jew a Jew.
Sure they had their own dog whistles, but by modern standards they were clear.
Maybe not the best example ever? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 02, 2021, 02:42:10 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 01, 2021, 11:40:55 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 01, 2021, 06:40:38 PM
I will say one good thing about Hitler and Co. They called a Jew a Jew.
Sure they had their own dog whistles, but by modern standards they were clear.
Maybe not the best example ever? :unsure:

Indeed
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 02, 2021, 03:44:34 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 01, 2021, 11:40:55 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 01, 2021, 06:40:38 PM
I will say one good thing about Hitler and Co. They called a Jew a Jew.
Sure they had their own dog whistles, but by modern standards they were clear.
Maybe not the best example ever? :unsure:
Why?
It's true that they were pretty clear about which groups they hated and wanted rid of.
Not so much tip toing with metropolitan Liberal Elites or vague "them"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 02, 2021, 04:18:04 AM
The Nazis were clear because the hate in their minds was clear. Proud Boys and the like may have strong prejudices, but generally don't believe they are racist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 02, 2021, 07:33:24 AM
The Proud Boys seem pretty anti-Semitic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 02, 2021, 09:29:57 AM
The proud boys sound pretty gay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 02, 2021, 09:40:20 AM
Ah, oef coeurse. The Röhm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 02, 2021, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 02, 2021, 09:29:57 AM
The proud boys sound pretty gay.

Their name comes from a showtune.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2021, 06:40:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50574044_2205422163119875_6001932997605982208_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=2lr0V_iYHlsAX-cpPcx&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=13eae586822449b7c5e1226c52755e92&oe=60419B6F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 10:56:52 AM
Nothing screams privilege so much as complaining you have a full time job that pays enough that you pay high taxes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 01:14:19 PM
I do wish we had a better term for "whatever your position in life is, and however much the system has screwed you over, at least you don't have to deal with the racism and impacts of historical oppression like non-whites in this country" than white privilege. But it is what it is. Maybe people shouldn't worry about that and try to solve real problems and not semantic ones?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 01:29:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 01:14:19 PM
I do wish we had a better term for "whatever your position in life is, and however much the system has screwed you over, at least you don't have to deal with the racism and impacts of historical oppression like non-whites in this country" than white privilege. But it is what it is. Maybe people shouldn't worry about that and try to solve real problems and not semantic ones?

But that is exactly what it is.  The whiteness of skin has been an extreme advantage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 01:57:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 01:29:32 PM
The whiteness of skin has been an extreme advantage.

I mean that is clear looking at the data. However, all kinds of things are advantages, but the term privilege gets people who have the lived experience of having a shitty and hard time being all pissed off. And I get that, if you are part of some underclass or part of the huge number of white people in prison or whatever, also being told how many advantages you have would be enraging considering how much the deck is stacked against you personally. Which is why it is semantic, I just stated it does point to a real thing that I think most people would acknowledge is true. But maybe better effort should be spent trying to solve the actual structural problems that create a vast underclass and huge prison population than trying to find words that make people feel better.

Having said that the person who wrote this meme doesn't sound particularly oppressed.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 03, 2021, 02:26:34 PM
I agree it's less white privilege and more not-white disadvantage.
But the term is well known enough that people should be clear on what it actually means.
Alas the world is full of idiots and those who which to profit from them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 04:52:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 01:57:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 01:29:32 PM

But that is exactly what it is. The whiteness of skin has been an extreme advantage.


I mean that is clear looking at the data. However, all kinds of things are advantages, but the term privilege gets people who have the lived experience of having a shitty and hard time being all pissed off. And I get that, if you are part of some underclass or part of the huge number of white people in prison or whatever, also being told how many advantages you have would be enraging considering how much the deck is stacked against you personally. Which is why it is semantic, I just stated it does point to a real thing that I think most people would acknowledge is true. But maybe better effort should be spent trying to solve the actual structural problems that create a vast underclass and huge prison population than trying to find words that make people feel better.

Having said that the person who wrote this meme doesn't sound particularly oppressed.

I replaced and bolded the part of my quote that is most relevant to what you just said.  If white folks think they have a lived experience that causes them to think they have it tough, they should probably reflect on how much more difficult it would have been for them in the same circumstances, with dark skin.

Why would you want to make white folks who dont understand the principle of white privilege feel better?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 03, 2021, 05:30:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.
:yes: Trevor Noah once said that in South Africa they call it "black tax", not "white privilege", precisely because telling a poor white person that they have "white privilege" is cruel, lacking in empathy, and is not productive in getting them to see your point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 03, 2021, 05:31:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.

I think a fundamental aspect of the problem is often who is doing the telling.

Often it is coming from people the poor, rural and white consider "privileged" in relation to themselves, and so comes across badly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 03, 2021, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 03, 2021, 05:30:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.
:yes: Trevor Noah once said that in South Africa they call it "black tax", not "white privilege", precisely because telling a poor white person that they have "white privilege" is cruel, lacking in empathy, and is not productive in getting them to see your point.

That's also a more accurate description of what is meant. Being treated like a human being is a right, not a privilege.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2021, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 03, 2021, 05:31:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.

I think a fundamental aspect of the problem is often who is doing the telling.

Often it is coming from people the poor, rural and white consider "privileged" in relation to themselves, and so comes across badly.

I very much doubt they would be any less sore if it were a poor black person telling them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2021, 05:46:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.

Well that is where intersectionality comes in...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 05:51:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2021, 05:46:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.

Well that is where intersectionality comes in...

Sure.  And I've long said intersectionality does have some important lessons to teach us.

It's only when we only use intersectionality (as university campuses and the online left are wont to do) and we reduce people down only to the various groups and identities they belong to we come back to telling disadvantaged whites that they have "white privilege".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2021, 05:54:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 05:51:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2021, 05:46:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.

Well that is where intersectionality comes in...

Sure.  And I've long said intersectionality does have some important lessons to teach us.

It's only when we only use intersectionality (as university campuses and the online left are wont to do) and we reduce people down only to the various groups and identities they belong to we come back to telling disadvantaged whites that they have "white privilege".

But I think that's also missing the point of white privilege as a term. After all it isn't something to beat poor whites with or something to convince them they are living the good life. It is a critical examination of advantages thst white people receive and create in our societies even while they might just perceive that as standard living.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 04:52:09 PM
I replaced and bolded the part of my quote that is most relevant to what you just said.  If white folks think they have a lived experience that causes them to think they have it tough, they should probably reflect on how much more difficult it would have been for them in the same circumstances, with dark skin.

Why would you want to make white folks who dont understand the principle of white privilege feel better?

Because it makes it sound like you are going to take something away from them. They have privileges that should be removed. When that is not the point at all. The term used is misleading. I don't think anybody is saying "wow that white guy in prison for a non-violent charge should have it rougher! That privileged motherfucker!!11" when actually addressing White Privilege would probably help those people, not hurt them.

And when you want to create change to make a more just society what branding you adopt is important. And when your branding fails you shouldn't turn to the public and berate them for being too stupid to understand your branding :P

But this is just more about the term itself, not this meme which is mostly about having to pay taxes...which last I checked don't change depending on what color your skin is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.

A white person misunderstanding what white privilege means is all the more reason to continue to use the phrase.  Maybe one day they will understand what it means.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 08:03:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 04:52:09 PM
I replaced and bolded the part of my quote that is most relevant to what you just said.  If white folks think they have a lived experience that causes them to think they have it tough, they should probably reflect on how much more difficult it would have been for them in the same circumstances, with dark skin.

Why would you want to make white folks who dont understand the principle of white privilege feel better?

Because it makes it sound like you are going to take something away from them. They have privileges that should be removed. When that is not the point at all. The term used is misleading. I don't think anybody is saying "wow that white guy in prison for a non-violent charge should have it rougher! That privileged motherfucker!!11" when actually addressing White Privilege would probably help those people, not hurt them.

And when you want to create change to make a more just society what branding you adopt is important. And when your branding fails you shouldn't turn to the public and berate them for being too stupid to understand your branding :P

But this is just more about the term itself, not this meme which is mostly about having to pay taxes...which last I checked don't change depending on what color your skin is.

Same answer I gave to BB, a white person misunderstanding what white privilege means is all the more reason to continue to use the phrase.  Maybe one day they will understand what it means.

I also reject your notion that this is a mere branding exercise that needs to be accepted by whites who are really part of the problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 03, 2021, 08:29:07 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 03, 2021, 05:30:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
I really think people should re-consider their use of language on some of these identity issues.

I work in the trenches of poverty because of the job I do.  I have no doubt it is better to be poor and white than poor and indigenous.

But to tell a poor white person that they have "white privilege" has got to be extremely aggravating.  This person doesn't feel privileged in any way, and by any objective standard they are not.  It's the kind of thing that is going to turn people away from the message you're trying to send.
:yes: Trevor Noah once said that in South Africa they call it "black tax", not "white privilege", precisely because telling a poor white person that they have "white privilege" is cruel, lacking in empathy, and is not productive in getting them to see your point.

I am consistenly astouded by the left ability to take a common sense idea, and label it in a way that just hands the right the very tool to dismiss the idea.

White privilege.

Defund the Police.

I mean....what the actual fuck?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 03, 2021, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 08:03:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 04:52:09 PM
I replaced and bolded the part of my quote that is most relevant to what you just said.  If white folks think they have a lived experience that causes them to think they have it tough, they should probably reflect on how much more difficult it would have been for them in the same circumstances, with dark skin.

Why would you want to make white folks who dont understand the principle of white privilege feel better?

Because it makes it sound like you are going to take something away from them. They have privileges that should be removed. When that is not the point at all. The term used is misleading. I don't think anybody is saying "wow that white guy in prison for a non-violent charge should have it rougher! That privileged motherfucker!!11" when actually addressing White Privilege would probably help those people, not hurt them.

And when you want to create change to make a more just society what branding you adopt is important. And when your branding fails you shouldn't turn to the public and berate them for being too stupid to understand your branding :P

But this is just more about the term itself, not this meme which is mostly about having to pay taxes...which last I checked don't change depending on what color your skin is.

Same answer I gave to BB, a white person misunderstanding what white privilege means is all the more reason to continue to use the phrase.  Maybe one day they will understand what it means.

I also reject your notion that this is a mere branding exercise that needs to be accepted by whites who are really part of the problem.

It's a public debate where we are trying to convince people to change their mindsets about public policy.

Feeling superior is super awesome for you, but is actually counter productive in nearly every way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 03, 2021, 08:34:12 PM
Don't mind him, he just has tall privilege
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 03, 2021, 11:07:45 PM
Also rich privilege, which is the most valuable one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 03, 2021, 11:46:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 08:03:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 04:52:09 PM
I replaced and bolded the part of my quote that is most relevant to what you just said.  If white folks think they have a lived experience that causes them to think they have it tough, they should probably reflect on how much more difficult it would have been for them in the same circumstances, with dark skin.

Why would you want to make white folks who dont understand the principle of white privilege feel better?

Because it makes it sound like you are going to take something away from them. They have privileges that should be removed. When that is not the point at all. The term used is misleading. I don't think anybody is saying "wow that white guy in prison for a non-violent charge should have it rougher! That privileged motherfucker!!11" when actually addressing White Privilege would probably help those people, not hurt them.

And when you want to create change to make a more just society what branding you adopt is important. And when your branding fails you shouldn't turn to the public and berate them for being too stupid to understand your branding :P

But this is just more about the term itself, not this meme which is mostly about having to pay taxes...which last I checked don't change depending on what color your skin is.

Same answer I gave to BB, a white person misunderstanding what white privilege means is all the more reason to continue to use the phrase.  Maybe one day they will understand what it means.

I also reject your notion that this is a mere branding exercise that needs to be accepted by whites who are really part of the problem.

The concern is that misbranding ideas has the potential to convince the people you want to convince of the exact opposite of what you want. Which is usually considered a bad idea.

What's the benefit of that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 12:06:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 03, 2021, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 08:03:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 04:52:09 PM
I replaced and bolded the part of my quote that is most relevant to what you just said.  If white folks think they have a lived experience that causes them to think they have it tough, they should probably reflect on how much more difficult it would have been for them in the same circumstances, with dark skin.

Why would you want to make white folks who dont understand the principle of white privilege feel better?

Because it makes it sound like you are going to take something away from them. They have privileges that should be removed. When that is not the point at all. The term used is misleading. I don't think anybody is saying "wow that white guy in prison for a non-violent charge should have it rougher! That privileged motherfucker!!11" when actually addressing White Privilege would probably help those people, not hurt them.

And when you want to create change to make a more just society what branding you adopt is important. And when your branding fails you shouldn't turn to the public and berate them for being too stupid to understand your branding :P

But this is just more about the term itself, not this meme which is mostly about having to pay taxes...which last I checked don't change depending on what color your skin is.

Same answer I gave to BB, a white person misunderstanding what white privilege means is all the more reason to continue to use the phrase.  Maybe one day they will understand what it means.

I also reject your notion that this is a mere branding exercise that needs to be accepted by whites who are really part of the problem.

It's a public debate where we are trying to convince people to change their mindsets about public policy.

Feeling superior is super awesome for you, but is actually counter productive in nearly every way.

dumbing down the concept so it is palatable should not be a goal. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 12:11:02 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 03, 2021, 11:46:50 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 08:03:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2021, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 03, 2021, 04:52:09 PM
I replaced and bolded the part of my quote that is most relevant to what you just said.  If white folks think they have a lived experience that causes them to think they have it tough, they should probably reflect on how much more difficult it would have been for them in the same circumstances, with dark skin.

Why would you want to make white folks who dont understand the principle of white privilege feel better?

Because it makes it sound like you are going to take something away from them. They have privileges that should be removed. When that is not the point at all. The term used is misleading. I don't think anybody is saying "wow that white guy in prison for a non-violent charge should have it rougher! That privileged motherfucker!!11" when actually addressing White Privilege would probably help those people, not hurt them.

And when you want to create change to make a more just society what branding you adopt is important. And when your branding fails you shouldn't turn to the public and berate them for being too stupid to understand your branding :P

But this is just more about the term itself, not this meme which is mostly about having to pay taxes...which last I checked don't change depending on what color your skin is.

Same answer I gave to BB, a white person misunderstanding what white privilege means is all the more reason to continue to use the phrase.  Maybe one day they will understand what it means.

I also reject your notion that this is a mere branding exercise that needs to be accepted by whites who are really part of the problem.

The concern is that misbranding ideas has the potential to convince the people you want to convince of the exact opposite of what you want. Which is usually considered a bad idea.

What's the benefit of that?


Exactly and calling it something other than what it is would be misbranding the idea for the sake of appealing to the very people who are the problem.

After all what is so hard about understanding the concept that being white brings with it inherent privileges.  What do we really accomplish if we dumb it down and make it more acceptable to those who need to learn the concept.   We probably end up where we are now, with white folks thinking they do not enjoy white privilege. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 04, 2021, 03:14:09 AM
Except its not a special privilege for white people. In a majority white land the treatment of white people is the norm.
Rather the problem is that people who are not white get worse treatment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 04, 2021, 04:05:26 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 04, 2021, 03:14:09 AM
Except its not a special privilege for white people. In a majority white land the treatment of white people is the norm.
Rather the problem is that people who are not white get worse treatment.

So that's the same thing. :huh:

It is a privilege the white majority is afforded and a disadvantage that the non-white minority have.

Here's a diagram:
(https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2Fs12889-019-7884-9/MediaObjects/12889_2019_7884_Fig1_HTML.png)

I'll admit I'm at a loss at what is being agigtated for here as I don't think things would change all that much if focus was put on the fact that black people have disadvantages rather than white people have priviliges. In fact, I think a lot is said about black people having disadvantages (so not focused directly on white people getting advantages) and these poor whites you are talking about - seems like they are still concerned about lazy, welfare queens and unfair affirmative action policies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 04, 2021, 04:21:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2021, 04:05:26 AM
So that's the same thing. :huh:

It is a privilege the white majority is afforded and a disadvantage that the non-white minority have.
Not quite.
Free cake for everyone except people called Dave vs. free cake for people called Dave.

The implication from putting the focus on white privilege that the right are keen to grasp at is the latter. That white people are being singled out for getting special treatment.
In actual fact the problem is the former, non-white people are the ones being singled out for the sub-normal treatment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 04:34:40 AM
While I am not sure anything would substantially change if a better term was to be found, the term is for sure not good.


The term and the discussion here highlights one important advantage the right had over the left in recent decades: they understand they need to convince people to win. Since their views rely much more on base instincts than learned behaviour, they have an inherently easier time doing so anyways, but that doesn't change the fact that if you want to be in power to enact the policies you want, you need to have the majority convinced of your views, at least in a democracy.

"White privilege" is a great term to discuss the concept with people who accept it exists (not to mention how great to show you understand it), but really not good at convincing others. And convincing others matters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 04, 2021, 04:53:45 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 04, 2021, 04:21:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2021, 04:05:26 AM
So that's the same thing. :huh:

It is a privilege the white majority is afforded and a disadvantage that the non-white minority have.
Not quite.
Free cake for everyone except people called Dave vs. free cake for people called Dave.

The implication from putting the focus on white privilege that the right are keen to grasp at is the latter. That white people are being singled out for getting special treatment.
In actual fact the problem is the former, non-white people are the ones being singled out for the sub-normal treatment.

But their whiteness does afford them access to certain privileges not afforded to others. It might be hard for a majority group to want to critically examine itself for the benefits its group is afforded, but it is an exercise worth doing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 04, 2021, 04:58:53 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 04:34:40 AM
While I am not sure anything would substantially change if a better term was to be found, the term is for sure not good.


The term and the discussion here highlights one important advantage the right had over the left in recent decades: they understand they need to convince people to win. Since their views rely much more on base instincts than learned behaviour, they have an inherently easier time doing so anyways, but that doesn't change the fact that if you want to be in power to enact the policies you want, you need to have the majority convinced of your views, at least in a democracy.

"White privilege" is a great term to discuss the concept with people who accept it exists (not to mention how great to show you understand it), but really not good at convincing others. And convincing others matters.

But that would suggest that one should just dumb down to rhetoric to a part where it is not true or only scarcely true. The reality is that these are challenging and tricky subjects that our societies have been wrestling with for a long time. It is unreasonable for someone to hear 'white privilege' or 'white people are afford certain advantages' and take that to mean that all white people are better off than non-white people. Much as it is unreasonable to hear 'black lives matter' and assume that means that the speaker thinks white lives do not.

How would you go about convincing others about this topic?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 04, 2021, 05:08:47 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2021, 04:53:45 AM

But their whiteness does afford them access to certain privileges not afforded to others. It might be hard for a majority group to want to critically examine itself for the benefits its group is afforded, but it is an exercise worth doing.
You may be missing the point.
Nobody here doubts that white privilege is real. The discussion is over whether thats the right term to use for the concept.

Out in the world the term is clearly causing a lot of knee jerk reactions and bringing moderates over to the reactionary's side.
The core of race problems in the UK and US is not white people getting special privileges, rather its people who aren't white getting especially awful treatment. Putting the focus on white people supposedly getting privileges will naturally lead many to knee-jerk react that they have things awful enough as it is and now you want to make it worse for them.
The goal afterall is to treat everyone as white people today get treat (or treating everyone better than that given all the other issues in the world), not to start treating white people like black people today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 05:10:14 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2021, 04:58:53 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 04:34:40 AM
While I am not sure anything would substantially change if a better term was to be found, the term is for sure not good.


The term and the discussion here highlights one important advantage the right had over the left in recent decades: they understand they need to convince people to win. Since their views rely much more on base instincts than learned behaviour, they have an inherently easier time doing so anyways, but that doesn't change the fact that if you want to be in power to enact the policies you want, you need to have the majority convinced of your views, at least in a democracy.

"White privilege" is a great term to discuss the concept with people who accept it exists (not to mention how great to show you understand it), but really not good at convincing others. And convincing others matters.

But that would suggest that one should just dumb down to rhetoric to a part where it is not true or only scarcely true. The reality is that these are challenging and tricky subjects that our societies have been wrestling with for a long time. It is unreasonable for someone to hear 'white privilege' or 'white people are afford certain advantages' and take that to mean that all white people are better off than non-white people. Much as it is unreasonable to hear 'black lives matter' and assume that means that the speaker thinks white lives do not.

How would you go about convincing others about this topic?

I am honestly not sure. But by default "privilege" is an advantage to take away. That's hard to stomach for someone who has lived on the bottom of the (white) pecking order. There are different levels of "white privilege" as well - you have the wrong accent, come from the wrong type of/too poor family, you see your chances in life dwindle.

Sure, they will still be about a 100 times better than if you had the same background with a non-white skin giving people a free societal pass to discriminate against you, but still you tell such people they ought to dial their "privileges" back to make the world a better place and it's hard to blame them for being resentful of the idea.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 04, 2021, 05:20:18 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 04, 2021, 05:08:47 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2021, 04:53:45 AM

But their whiteness does afford them access to certain privileges not afforded to others. It might be hard for a majority group to want to critically examine itself for the benefits its group is afforded, but it is an exercise worth doing.
You may be missing the point.
Nobody here doubts that white privilege is real. The discussion is over whether thats the right term to use for the concept.

Out in the world the term is clearly causing a lot of knee jerk reactions and bringing moderates over to the reactionary's side.
The core of race problems in the UK and US is not white people getting special privileges, rather its people who aren't white getting especially awful treatment. Putting the focus on white people supposedly getting privileges will naturally lead many to knee-jerk react that they have things awful enough as it is and now you want to make it worse for them.
The goal afterall is to treat everyone as white people today get treat (or treating everyone better than that given all the other issues in the world), not to start treating white people like black people today.

The reality is that improvement in the situation for minorities will actually have a negative impact on some white people. After all, there are only so many university places, so many houses, so many job openings.  Similarly, I do think if cops stopped profiling minorities, there would be some added level of discomfort for all.

What evidence do you have that if 'white privilege' were removed from the equation that everyone would be all, okay great black people are oppressed, let's change that. From what we know of history, it doesn't look like things were more equitable before the term was invented.

And frankly, this sounds like the same bullshit thing that Democrats/the left always have to phrase things perfectly while Republicans/the right can be putting out such rhetorical gems as 'brexit means brexit' and 'grab 'em by the pussy'. At the end of the day, some people will not be reached as they don't want to be reached.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 04, 2021, 05:27:01 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 05:10:14 AM
I am honestly not sure. But by default "privilege" is an advantage to take away. That's hard to stomach for someone who has lived on the bottom of the (white) pecking order. There are different levels of "white privilege" as well - you have the wrong accent, come from the wrong type of/too poor family, you see your chances in life dwindle.

Sure, they will still be about a 100 times better than if you had the same background with a non-white skin giving people a free societal pass to discriminate against you, but still you tell such people they ought to dial their "privileges" back to make the world a better place and it's hard to blame them for being resentful of the idea.

We know people have strong feelings about that term but isn't a bit of a fig leaf to say that term is what is what makes you fee resentful about wanting to make the word more equitable?

Also, maybe it is important to look at some of the privileges and whether it is a big ask to tell someone to dial back their privilege (aka recognize that not everyone is afford that same reality).

https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2017/07/24/10-examples-that-prove-white-privilege-exists-in-every-aspect-imaginable/

QuoteI Have The Privilege Of Having A Positive Relationship With The Police, Generally
I Have The Privilege Of Being Favored By School Authorities
I Have The Privilege Of Attending Segregated Schools Of Affluence
I Have The Privilege Of Learning About My Race In School
I Have The Privilege Of Finding Children's Books That Overwhelmingly Represent My Race
I Have The Privilege Of Soaking In Media Blatantly Biased Toward My Race
I Have The Privilege Of Escaping Violent Stereotypes Associated With My Race
I Have The Privilege Of Playing The Colorblind Card, Wiping The Slate Clean Of Centuries Of Racism
I Have The Privilege Of Being Insulated From The Daily Toll Of Racism
I Have The Privilege Of Living Ignorant Of The Dire State Of Racism Today

That one in bold might be iffy from being generalizable as strictly more about wealth (as long as we set aside any correlations between socio-economic status and race).

But then as to the rest, what is so egregious?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 04, 2021, 05:34:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 04, 2021, 05:20:18 AM
The reality is that improvement in the situation for minorities will actually have a negative impact on some white people. After all, there are only so many university places, so many houses, so many job openings.  Similarly, I do think if cops stopped profiling minorities, there would be some added level of discomfort for all.


I disagree there, kind of a mercantilist outlook of the type common with the modern hard right.
There are not a finite amount of jobs et al. The growth of society and expansion of opportunities to more people creates more trade and flow of ideas. Open up more opportunities for minorities and the particularly skilled/lucky amongst them will end up creating more jobs.
In the South African situation I can see this argument, a small minority living a first world life off the backs of a large developing world majority. You can see how equal rights there would have worsened things for white people and many would be keen to look beyond common decency to defend their own lifestyle.
But in the UK where black people are well under 5%?
Treating them with basic respect and equality isn't going to change much for the average white guy.


QuoteWhat evidence do you have that if 'white privilege' were removed from the equation that everyone would be all, okay great black people are oppressed, let's change that. From what we know of history, it doesn't look like things were more equitable before the term was invented.
The Irish/Catholics in general.
Once treat like shit and demonised; now its not an issue to tick those boxes at all.
The sky hasn't fallen, things being a bit less shitty for people in that group hasn't worsened things for those not in that group.
Or indeed gay people. Gay marriage has done nothing to hurt heterosexual marriage. Just let gay people get on with their lives without hassle and it doesn't impact the majority at all.

Quote
And frankly, this sounds like the same bullshit thing that Democrats/the left always have to phrase things perfectly while Republicans/the right can be putting out such rhetorical gems as 'brexit means brexit' and 'grab 'em by the pussy'. At the end of the day, some people will not be reached as they don't want to be reached.
Yes, as Tamas says its already an uphill battle.
The sane shouldn't make it even harder for themselves.
Its not a vitally important issue to crack down on use of the term white privilege, its getting into fairly pedantic stuff, but there should be a bit of an attempt to redirect the framing to a better place when it doesn't take any effort to do this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 04, 2021, 05:42:18 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 04, 2021, 05:34:33 AM
I disagree there, kind of a mercantilist outlook of the type common with the modern hard right.
There are not a finite amount of jobs et al. The growth of society and expansion of opportunities to more people creates more trade and flow of ideas. Open up more opportunities for minorities and the particularly skilled/lucky amongst them will end up creating more jobs.
In the South African situation I can see this argument, a small minority living a first world life off the backs of a large developing world majority. You can see how equal rights there would have worsened things for white people and many would be keen to look beyond common decency to defend their own lifestyle.
But in the UK where black people are well under 5%?
Treating them with basic respect and equality isn't going to change much for the average white guy.

But then you are talking an overhaul of our capitalist system. Giving 'basic respect and equality' is not going to change much of the average black person. ;) After all, people can be polite and still oppress you.

Quote from: Tyr on February 04, 2021, 05:34:33 AM
The Irish/Catholics in general.
Once treat like shit and demonised; now its not an issue to tick those boxes at all.
The sky hasn't fallen, things being a bit less shitty for people in that group hasn't worsened things for those not in that group.
Or indeed gay people. Gay marriage has done nothing to hurt heterosexual marriage. Just let gay people get on with their lives without hassle and it doesn't impact the majority at all.

So groups that were subsumed into whiteness (well maybe not the brown gays who also still face racial discrimination...)? I can't speak for the Irish or Catholics, but gay people definitely have talked ad nauseum about the privileges straight couples were afforded. Gay rights has been in large part about making sure straight people weren't the only ones to have state sanctioned marries.

Quote from: Tyr on February 04, 2021, 05:34:33 AM
Yes, as Tamas says its already an uphill battle.
The sane shouldn't make it even harder for themselves.
Its not a vitally important issue to crack down on use of the term white privilege, its getting into fairly pedantic stuff, but there should be a bit of an attempt to redirect the framing to a better place when it doesn't take any effort to do this.

I'll ask again, what is the ideal phrasing that will change hearts and minds?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 04, 2021, 05:51:36 AM
QuoteBut then you are talking an overhaul of our capitalist system.
I don't see how. Its kind of civilization 101; connect more people, increase education, etc... and everyone profits.

QuoteGiving 'basic respect and equality' is not going to change much of the average black person. ;) After all, people can be polite and still oppress you.
Not what I meant.
Cracking down on unfair police treatment, making efforts to actively engage with minority communities to open up opportunities to them, etc... is part of basic respect and equality to me, not just being polite. Equality comes with the end point, not the start.

QuoteSo groups that were subsumed into whiteness (well maybe not the brown gays who also still face racial discrimination...)?
Yes, which is kind of where we should be heading with other minorities.
Less "subsumed into whiteness" and more "subsumed into being one of the 'normal' people".

QuoteI can't speak for the Irish or Catholics, but gay people definitely have talked ad nauseum about the privileges straight couples were afforded. Gay rights has been in large part about making sure straight people weren't the only ones to have state sanctioned marries.
Gay marriage is probably a bad example in hindsight. I remember with gay marriage the talk of 'marriage equality' always made my eyes roll a bit. The way I saw it, it wasn't about giving gay people equal rights to straight people; they already had that in the right to marry someone of the opposite gender, for all the good possession of this right did them.
Rather gay marriage was about an expansion of rights for everyone and enhancing everyone's freedom. Putting it in terms of simple equality was under-selling it. As effective as this strategy was politically.

QuoteI'll ask again, what is the ideal phrasing that will change hearts and minds?
If I knew The Answer (tm) I'd be Emperor of Europe by now :p
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2021, 12:18:02 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 04:34:40 AM
"White privilege" is a great term to discuss the concept with people who accept it exists (not to mention how great to show you understand it), but really not good at convincing others. And convincing others matters.

In this scenario who are the others and what are we trying to convince them of?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 04, 2021, 12:37:14 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2021, 12:18:02 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 04:34:40 AM
"White privilege" is a great term to discuss the concept with people who accept it exists (not to mention how great to show you understand it), but really not good at convincing others. And convincing others matters.

In this scenario who are the others and what are we trying to convince them of?

People who mostly don't spend much time thinking about this either way, other than what they casually see on their FB feed or hear about from friends.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 12:06:40 AM

dumbing down the concept so it is palatable should not be a goal.


That's not a goal, but a way to remove white privilege. White people make up the majority of the population and they control most of the wealth.  The only way to do that is to convince them to it up.  In politics it helps to not insult people you are trying to convince.  10% of the population can't take something from 70% of the population by force.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 12:06:40 AM

dumbing down the concept so it is palatable should not be a goal.


That's not a goal, but a way to remove white privilege. White people make up the majority of the population and they control most of the wealth.  The only way to do that is to convince them to it up.  In politics it helps to not insult people you are trying to convince.  10% of the population can't take something from 70% of the population by force.

Calling something what is, is not taking something by force.  It is being honest.  I recognize it is a truth that a lot of white people are not comfortable with.  Making up a different truth that they feel more comfortable with is less than honest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 03:57:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 12:06:40 AM

dumbing down the concept so it is palatable should not be a goal.


That's not a goal, but a way to remove white privilege. White people make up the majority of the population and they control most of the wealth.  The only way to do that is to convince them to it up.  In politics it helps to not insult people you are trying to convince.  10% of the population can't take something from 70% of the population by force.

Calling something what is, is not taking something by force.  It is being honest.  I recognize it is a truth that a lot of white people are not comfortable with.  Making up a different truth that they feel more comfortable with is less than honest.

Okay CC.  Let's say you are out canvassing.  You come to a trailer park, you knock at the door and tell the people inside how privilege they are and thus undeserving of the wealth they have.  What is the next step in your argument?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 03:57:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 12:06:40 AM

dumbing down the concept so it is palatable should not be a goal.


That's not a goal, but a way to remove white privilege. White people make up the majority of the population and they control most of the wealth.  The only way to do that is to convince them to it up.  In politics it helps to not insult people you are trying to convince.  10% of the population can't take something from 70% of the population by force.

Calling something what is, is not taking something by force.  It is being honest.  I recognize it is a truth that a lot of white people are not comfortable with.  Making up a different truth that they feel more comfortable with is less than honest.

Okay CC.  Let's say you are out canvassing.  You come to a trailer park, you knock at the door and tell the people inside how privilege they are and thus undeserving of the wealth they have.  What is the next step in your argument?

You wouldn't do that for two reasons.  First, the purpose of canvassing is not to explain white privilege.  Second, that is not what white privilege means.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 04, 2021, 04:22:17 PM
If the meaning is not obvious by the words being used, for a wide-ranging social issue especially, then the words are not the right ones to use. This is not some technical lingo, it is supposed to help address political and social problems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 03:59:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 03:57:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 12:06:40 AM

dumbing down the concept so it is palatable should not be a goal.


That's not a goal, but a way to remove white privilege. White people make up the majority of the population and they control most of the wealth.  The only way to do that is to convince them to it up.  In politics it helps to not insult people you are trying to convince.  10% of the population can't take something from 70% of the population by force.

Calling something what is, is not taking something by force.  It is being honest.  I recognize it is a truth that a lot of white people are not comfortable with.  Making up a different truth that they feel more comfortable with is less than honest.

Okay CC.  Let's say you are out canvassing.  You come to a trailer park, you knock at the door and tell the people inside how privilege they are and thus undeserving of the wealth they have.  What is the next step in your argument?

You wouldn't do that for two reasons.  First, the purpose of canvassing is not to explain white privilege.  Second, that is not what white privilege means.

So where and how would you explain white privilege to these people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 04, 2021, 12:37:14 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2021, 12:18:02 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 04:34:40 AM
"White privilege" is a great term to discuss the concept with people who accept it exists (not to mention how great to show you understand it), but really not good at convincing others. And convincing others matters.

In this scenario who are the others and what are we trying to convince them of?

People who mostly don't spend much time thinking about this either way, other than what they casually see on their FB feed or hear about from friends.

This being racial disparities in America?
And what specifically are we trying to convince them of?

One can argue that "privilege" is the wrong word to use but then what is the right word and how does it achieve the goal?

I view this as categorically different from defund the police.  The problem with "defund the police" is not just that it is political poison - although that admittedly is a problem.  The problem is that it is objectively a terrible idea and it is an statement that we as a society are incapable of operating functional institutions like police forces. It should be re-fund and reform the police, not defund.  Better police, not fewer and worse.

"White privilege" is not in the same category - it is not a policy proposal but a statement of fact about the world. In America it is more advantageous to be white than black.  That is a undeniable fact. And to have a categorical benefit or advantage is the very definition of privilege. So to argue against the usage of the term, is to argue that in order to reach through to people, the reality has to be sugar-coated in some way to make it more palatable to hear.  That's a possible argument to make but it requires an understanding of: (1) what group or groups one is trying to reach with the softly, softly approach, (2) what alternative approach to use and how effective it will be. and (3) what effectiveness may be lost by using a less direct approach.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 04:56:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 04:33:26 PM
So where and how would you explain white privilege to these people?

I think there has been enough explanation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 05:08:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 04:56:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 04:33:26 PM
So where and how would you explain white privilege to these people?

I think there has been enough explanation.

And you wonder why there is so much resistance to the Idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 05:26:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 05:08:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 04:56:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 04:33:26 PM
So where and how would you explain white privilege to these people?

I think there has been enough explanation.

And you wonder why there is so much resistance to the Idea.

No, I don't wonder.  I have a pretty good idea why there is so much resistance to accepting the truth that white privilege exists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 04, 2021, 05:40:42 PM
I'm totally in favour of using terms other than "white privilige" when talking to people who bristle at the term. Not, mind you, at all times or in the broader society wide conversation. But I'm happy to use other terms on an individual, case-by-case basis when I know who I'm talking to, have a sense of what they're like, and - potentially also - when there's a specific reason to have that conversation.

So yeah - tactically there's a reason to avoid the term "white privilige" on occasion, but it's a real thing, it is an apt term, and I don't see a compelling reason to abandon the term because some people prefer not to understand it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2021, 06:22:04 PM
To me the term suggests that every white person is born into a cushier life than every black person, which is demonstrably false.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2021, 06:22:04 PM
To me the term suggests that every white person is born into a cushier life than every black person, which is demonstrably false.

Depends what you mean by cushier.  If you mean that every white person has less of a chance of being shot by police officers when they attack congress, then yeah, demonstrably true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 06:45:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 05:26:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 05:08:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 04:56:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 04:33:26 PM
So where and how would you explain white privilege to these people?

I think there has been enough explanation.

And you wonder why there is so much resistance to the Idea.

No, I don't wonder.  I have a pretty good idea why there is so much resistance to accepting the truth that white privilege exists.


Yeah, calling someone racist doesn't exactly help either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 04, 2021, 07:21:54 PM
If you want to have your cake and eat it too, it actually does help a lot.  If you're a white person who did legitimately live a privileged life, you can buy privilege offset credits by droning on and on about white privilege that every white person has.  However, just like with other kinds of masturbation, it's all about the journey, reaching the destination quickly and effectively is counterproductive. 

If you drone on about white privilege in a way that is off-putting to others, you make sure that nothing actually gets done about whatever unfairness you're thinking of when you talk of white privilege.  You'll get to maintain indefinitely both your smugness, as one of the few people who gets it, and (in your case) the very real privilege.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2021, 10:10:22 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2021, 07:21:54 PM
If you want to have your cake and eat it too, it actually does help a lot.  If you're a white person who did legitimately live a privileged life, you can buy privilege offset credits by droning on and on about white privilege that every white person has.  However, just like with other kinds of masturbation, it's all about the journey, reaching the destination quickly and effectively is counterproductive. 

If you drone on about white privilege in a way that is off-putting to others, you make sure that nothing actually gets done about whatever unfairness you're thinking of when you talk of white privilege.  You'll get to maintain indefinitely both your smugness, as one of the few people who gets it, and (in your case) the very real privilege.

But one of the privileges incorporated in white privilege is the privilege of saying, when pushed into a corner by one's own bullshit rhetoric about white privilege, "there has been enough explanation."  That's double-plus smugness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 02:07:54 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 04, 2021, 12:37:14 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2021, 12:18:02 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 04:34:40 AM
"White privilege" is a great term to discuss the concept with people who accept it exists (not to mention how great to show you understand it), but really not good at convincing others. And convincing others matters.

In this scenario who are the others and what are we trying to convince them of?

People who mostly don't spend much time thinking about this either way, other than what they casually see on their FB feed or hear about from friends.

This being racial disparities in America?
And what specifically are we trying to convince them of?

One can argue that "privilege" is the wrong word to use but then what is the right word and how does it achieve the goal?

I view this as categorically different from defund the police.  The problem with "defund the police" is not just that it is political poison - although that admittedly is a problem.  The problem is that it is objectively a terrible idea and it is an statement that we as a society are incapable of operating functional institutions like police forces. It should be re-fund and reform the police, not defund.  Better police, not fewer and worse.

"White privilege" is not in the same category - it is not a policy proposal but a statement of fact about the world. In America it is more advantageous to be white than black.  That is a undeniable fact. And to have a categorical benefit or advantage is the very definition of privilege. So to argue against the usage of the term, is to argue that in order to reach through to people, the reality has to be sugar-coated in some way to make it more palatable to hear.  That's a possible argument to make but it requires an understanding of: (1) what group or groups one is trying to reach with the softly, softly approach, (2) what alternative approach to use and how effective it will be. and (3) what effectiveness may be lost by using a less direct approach.

Yes, all very good points.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 05, 2021, 02:50:14 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 04, 2021, 12:37:14 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 04, 2021, 12:18:02 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 04, 2021, 04:34:40 AM
"White privilege" is a great term to discuss the concept with people who accept it exists (not to mention how great to show you understand it), but really not good at convincing others. And convincing others matters.

In this scenario who are the others and what are we trying to convince them of?

People who mostly don't spend much time thinking about this either way, other than what they casually see on their FB feed or hear about from friends.

This being racial disparities in America?
And what specifically are we trying to convince them of?


That the issue of racial based differences in outcomes is something that is real in a way that they probably have not considered before.

That there is systemic problems that need to be addressed beyond their own personnel views on race and racism.

Quote

One can argue that "privilege" is the wrong word to use but then what is the right word and how does it achieve the goal?


How did we talk about this prior to the use of the phrase "white privilege"?

Quote

I view this as categorically different from defund the police.  The problem with "defund the police" is not just that it is political poison - although that admittedly is a problem.  The problem is that it is objectively a terrible idea and it is an statement that we as a society are incapable of operating functional institutions like police forces. It should be re-fund and reform the police, not defund.  Better police, not fewer and worse.

But it you ask reasonable people what "defund the police" means, they will tell you exactly that - that it means re-allocating funding from agressive policing to social services and such. Again, it's simply a label - in this case a bad one, because

1. It suggests that it means something it does not to people who are not sure what the underlying argument is that it is labeling, and
2. It allows your opponents an easy opportunity to interpret the position in the worst possible way and then insist that is actually what you mean. Which results in shitty arguments about what you don't believe, rather then good arguments about what you do believe.

Quote

"White privilege" is not in the same category - it is not a policy proposal but a statement of fact about the world.


Neither of them are proposals or statements of fact. They are label's used to represent those things, and in either case are not the only possible labels to be used.

Quote

In America it is more advantageous to be white than black.  That is a undeniable fact. And to have a categorical benefit or advantage is the very definition of privilege. So to argue against the usage of the term, is to argue that in order to reach through to people, the reality has to be sugar-coated in some way to make it more palatable to hear.  That's a possible argument to make but it requires an understanding of: (1) what group or groups one is trying to reach with the softly, softly approach, (2) what alternative approach to use and how effective it will be. and (3) what effectiveness may be lost by using a less direct approach.

It is more advantageous to be white then black, so why does the term say "white privilege" and doesn't even mention blacks? Does that suggest it is more advantageous to be white then asian? The term doesn't have the word black in it at all. What do we mean by "white" by the way? What about native Americans? They by most measures are even worse off then blacks - so how does that term encompass them and their racial disadvantages compared to whites?

I can pick apart the claim that the term is somehow definitionally the "most direct" approach easily by pointing out that it is incredibly vague, does not actually identify who the white are privileged compared to, or even mention that it applies to only certain societies, and not always even in those societies.

It's just a label. There is nothing about it that makes it clearly the "most direct" possible label such that any other label must by definition be "sugar coating". And what in the hell is wrong with sugar coating anyway, when it comes to trying to convince people of things?

Should we insist that the pro-choice crowd not be called such a thing, because pro-fetus killers is "more direct"? Labels matter, and finding good labels for your arguments is just common sense. A good label is one that both illustrates the principle well AND is seen as being positive and not designed to make the listener emotionally defensive.

Racial advantage? White advantage? Hell, I don't know. I am no word smith.

But what I do know is that the word "privilege" raises hackles. It has a connotation of undeserved advantage, of some kind of immoral position at a personal level, that is simply going to be met with emotive resistance for many people in our society that feel anything but "privileged". If you WANT to raise hackles, then by all means, lets use it. I suspect in fact that it was in fact with exactly that intent that it was crafted. And maybe some hackles need to be raised. But as a general means of convincing people you actually want to convince to act, think, and VOTE differently than they might be inclined to do, I can't imagine much of a worse term to describe the problem. It was like someone set out to come up with a label most likely to piss off the very people you would want to convince.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 05, 2021, 02:54:47 AM
This articulates my objections to the term better then I can (not much of a bar to get over, to be sure):

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2016/11/15/why-its-better-talk-about-advantage-rather-privilege-essay

Quote
Now try shifting your language to that of advantages. Ask yourself, "What advantages do I have over that person over there?" That question is much easier to answer and yields more nuanced responses. If I answer for myself, I can readily see that not all advantages are inherently problematic on their face. As a tall person I am advantaged in some spaces (e.g., reaching up to grab something from the high shelf in a supermarket), and disadvantaged in others (e.g., sitting in a cramped seat on an airplane). Yet if one looks under the surface, one can see that in both circumstances my (dis)advantage is predicated on design choices that are outside of my control. They are systemic. (It is also silly to say that I am tall privileged.)

What about a wealthy high school student who scored well on their SAT? They could unpack their success by understanding their advantage, for example: "Yes, my SAT scores are higher than someone else's, but that may be because I have advantages in schooling that are predicated on the wealth of my community and/or parents. My schools are better, and I had access to tutoring. Moreover, some of that wealth is a result of oppressing people of color by historically denying them the ability to buy property in nicer areas, thus limiting their capacity to build and transmit wealth to their children. Those advantages are unearned, yet I still benefit from them. So, no, I won't get bent out of shape if someone else with lower SAT scores is admitted into this fancy college and I'm not."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 03:04:17 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 05, 2021, 02:54:47 AM
This articulates my objections to the term better then I can (not much of a bar to get over, to be sure):

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2016/11/15/why-its-better-talk-about-advantage-rather-privilege-essay

Quote
Now try shifting your language to that of advantages. Ask yourself, "What advantages do I have over that person over there?" That question is much easier to answer and yields more nuanced responses. If I answer for myself, I can readily see that not all advantages are inherently problematic on their face. As a tall person I am advantaged in some spaces (e.g., reaching up to grab something from the high shelf in a supermarket), and disadvantaged in others (e.g., sitting in a cramped seat on an airplane). Yet if one looks under the surface, one can see that in both circumstances my (dis)advantage is predicated on design choices that are outside of my control. They are systemic. (It is also silly to say that I am tall privileged.)

What about a wealthy high school student who scored well on their SAT? They could unpack their success by understanding their advantage, for example: "Yes, my SAT scores are higher than someone else's, but that may be because I have advantages in schooling that are predicated on the wealth of my community and/or parents. My schools are better, and I had access to tutoring. Moreover, some of that wealth is a result of oppressing people of color by historically denying them the ability to buy property in nicer areas, thus limiting their capacity to build and transmit wealth to their children. Those advantages are unearned, yet I still benefit from them. So, no, I won't get bent out of shape if someone else with lower SAT scores is admitted into this fancy college and I'm not."

The solve is to replace privilege with advantage and all would be good? His opinion piece seems a little light on showing that works in practice.

Hell his wealthy student who couldn't get into their chosen university sounds pretty implausible. They calmly look at their advantages and decide not to get bent out of shape? Meanwhile had someone pointed our their privileges they would have kicked off?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 05, 2021, 03:10:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 03:04:17 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 05, 2021, 02:54:47 AM
This articulates my objections to the term better then I can (not much of a bar to get over, to be sure):

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2016/11/15/why-its-better-talk-about-advantage-rather-privilege-essay

Quote
Now try shifting your language to that of advantages. Ask yourself, "What advantages do I have over that person over there?" That question is much easier to answer and yields more nuanced responses. If I answer for myself, I can readily see that not all advantages are inherently problematic on their face. As a tall person I am advantaged in some spaces (e.g., reaching up to grab something from the high shelf in a supermarket), and disadvantaged in others (e.g., sitting in a cramped seat on an airplane). Yet if one looks under the surface, one can see that in both circumstances my (dis)advantage is predicated on design choices that are outside of my control. They are systemic. (It is also silly to say that I am tall privileged.)

What about a wealthy high school student who scored well on their SAT? They could unpack their success by understanding their advantage, for example: "Yes, my SAT scores are higher than someone else's, but that may be because I have advantages in schooling that are predicated on the wealth of my community and/or parents. My schools are better, and I had access to tutoring. Moreover, some of that wealth is a result of oppressing people of color by historically denying them the ability to buy property in nicer areas, thus limiting their capacity to build and transmit wealth to their children. Those advantages are unearned, yet I still benefit from them. So, no, I won't get bent out of shape if someone else with lower SAT scores is admitted into this fancy college and I'm not."

The solve is to replace privilege with advantage and all would be good? His opinion piece seems a little light on showing that works in practice.

Hell his wealthy student who couldn't get into their chosen university sounds pretty implausible. They calmly look at their advantages and decide not to get bent out of shape? Meanwhile had someone pointed our their privileges they would have kicked off?

You seem super attached to the term and very resistant to the idea that there could be a better one. I would just stick with it if I were you.

But yes, the entire point is that people do in fact react differently to ideas being presented in different ways. I know, humans are such divas. If only they were not so dramatic, like you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 03:14:35 AM
Comment section on his piece seem to focus on how advantage is just another word for privilege and that issue with both is we should focus on disadvantages people face not "cutting down" this with advantages/privileges.

And then there was this gem:
QuoteThe problem isn't "privilege" vs. "advantage", though the latter might be slightly better. The problem is "white". I've never had to think of myself as white [except in deciding what box to check on a job application] -- and I realize that is part of the whole "privilege" thing. But "white" is not really my skin color. It doesn't connect to my English-French-Irish ancestry and culture. I had no control over my ancestry. I don't really like the people who identify themselves as white -- as in "white supremacist". So to me, it feels like an epithet, an indicator that the speaker is biased and not ready for a dialogue. I'll just grin and bear it -- because equality is something I value as an American, and because I'm probably wrong about the intent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 03:19:08 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 05, 2021, 03:10:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 03:04:17 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 05, 2021, 02:54:47 AM
This articulates my objections to the term better then I can (not much of a bar to get over, to be sure):

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2016/11/15/why-its-better-talk-about-advantage-rather-privilege-essay

Quote
Now try shifting your language to that of advantages. Ask yourself, "What advantages do I have over that person over there?" That question is much easier to answer and yields more nuanced responses. If I answer for myself, I can readily see that not all advantages are inherently problematic on their face. As a tall person I am advantaged in some spaces (e.g., reaching up to grab something from the high shelf in a supermarket), and disadvantaged in others (e.g., sitting in a cramped seat on an airplane). Yet if one looks under the surface, one can see that in both circumstances my (dis)advantage is predicated on design choices that are outside of my control. They are systemic. (It is also silly to say that I am tall privileged.)

What about a wealthy high school student who scored well on their SAT? They could unpack their success by understanding their advantage, for example: "Yes, my SAT scores are higher than someone else's, but that may be because I have advantages in schooling that are predicated on the wealth of my community and/or parents. My schools are better, and I had access to tutoring. Moreover, some of that wealth is a result of oppressing people of color by historically denying them the ability to buy property in nicer areas, thus limiting their capacity to build and transmit wealth to their children. Those advantages are unearned, yet I still benefit from them. So, no, I won't get bent out of shape if someone else with lower SAT scores is admitted into this fancy college and I'm not."

The solve is to replace privilege with advantage and all would be good? His opinion piece seems a little light on showing that works in practice.

Hell his wealthy student who couldn't get into their chosen university sounds pretty implausible. They calmly look at their advantages and decide not to get bent out of shape? Meanwhile had someone pointed our their privileges they would have kicked off?

You seem super attached to the term and very resistant to the idea that there could be a better one. I would just stick with it if I were you.

But yes, the entire point is that people do in fact react differently to ideas being presented in different ways. I know, humans are such divas. If only they were not so dramatic, like you.

I think if one is going to posit that the term is what is preventing progress, one better have some good evidence. A quick word substitution highlighted by an implausible change in thought supported by...? Isn't really that.

If we go back to our 'poor whites' how does telling them they have advantages change anything? What bridges them to accepting that being one gives them those advantages?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on February 05, 2021, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 03:19:08 AM
I think if one is going to posit that the term is what is preventing progress, one better have some good evidence. A quick word substitution highlighted by an implausible change in thought supported by...? Isn't really that.

Yeah, I have a strong suspicion that any other word for "privilege" is going to quickly suffer the same objections as "privilege."  Much like moron / cretin / idiot / mentally retarded all became pejorative pretty quickly after their introduction.

The fundamental problem is that it's tough to convince someone that their life would be worse if they weren't white while their life sucks.  I've got no solution for that, although I think that working on universal programs might help somewhat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 05, 2021, 11:18:57 AM
"Minority tax" works in the sense that it is something we want to get rid of, as opposed to the idea that we don't want anyone to have what the "whites" have.  I think that, in fact, we would want everyone in the world to have the "white privilege" of good schools, lack of prejudice against them, economic opportunity, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: ulmont on February 05, 2021, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 03:19:08 AM
I think if one is going to posit that the term is what is preventing progress, one better have some good evidence. A quick word substitution highlighted by an implausible change in thought supported by...? Isn't really that.

Yeah, I have a strong suspicion that any other word for "privilege" is going to quickly suffer the same objections as "privilege."  Much like moron / cretin / idiot / mentally retarded all became pejorative pretty quickly after their introduction.

The fundamental problem is that it's tough to convince someone that their life would be worse if they weren't white while their life sucks.  I've got no solution for that, although I think that working on universal programs might help somewhat.


Honestly, I think you could convince quite a few people if you sat them down and explained what you are talking about.  These people are for the most part not racist.  They simply don't know that other people are treated differently.  They've never been pulled over for driving black, or followed around in a store by clerks or preserved their receipts because someone may accuse them of stealing or any of the other routine indignities that black people face on a regular basis.

Explaining this by shouting slogans through a bullhorn or posting memes isn't an effective means of persuasion.  This is part of a larger problem in the American left.  The answers seem so self-evidently true to leftist that they don't bother to explain why they are true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 11:39:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: ulmont on February 05, 2021, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 03:19:08 AM
I think if one is going to posit that the term is what is preventing progress, one better have some good evidence. A quick word substitution highlighted by an implausible change in thought supported by...? Isn't really that.

Yeah, I have a strong suspicion that any other word for "privilege" is going to quickly suffer the same objections as "privilege."  Much like moron / cretin / idiot / mentally retarded all became pejorative pretty quickly after their introduction.

The fundamental problem is that it's tough to convince someone that their life would be worse if they weren't white while their life sucks.  I've got no solution for that, although I think that working on universal programs might help somewhat.


Honestly, I think you could convince quite a few people if you sat them down and explained what you are talking about.  These people are for the most part not racist.  They simply don't know that other people are treated differently.  They've never been pulled over for driving black, or followed around in a store by clerks or preserved their receipts because someone may accuse them of stealing or any of the other routine indignities that black people face on a regular basis.

Explaining this by shouting slogans through a bullhorn or posting memes isn't an effective means of persuasion.  This is part of a larger problem in the American left.  The answers seem so self-evidently true to leftist that they don't bother to explain why they are true.

What? The issue is the left never wants to explain anything? I think it is more likely to be said that many want it to be an easy slogan, something quick and are turned off my attempts of the left to accomodate that.

Also, if only these people had the ability to learn things without needing non-white people to explain it to them. If only they could learn things online rather than using the internet to post stupid memes about how they aren't privileged.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 11:41:10 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 05, 2021, 11:18:57 AM
"Minority tax" works in the sense that it is something we want to get rid of, as opposed to the idea that we don't want anyone to have what the "whites" have.  I think that, in fact, we would want everyone in the world to have the "white privilege" of good schools, lack of prejudice against them, economic opportunity, etc.

Isn't that 1) going to make people think about money and 2) leave it open for the response to be, yeah but everyone faces problems?

'White privilige' is not the only term used for this topic and I'd think that actually focusing on minority disadvantages is more the norm and certainly the main way you would see in say news articles.  That doesn't seem to be sufficient though to get everyone on the same page.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 11:42:34 AM
Not everyone went to Stanford, garbon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 11:42:34 AM
Not everyone went to Stanford, garbon.

I don't think using a search engine was a required course at Stanford.

I agree, of course, that not everyone is as curious, but you should also recognize that it can get tedious as well as heartbreaking for minorities to have to repeatedly explain how their world works. At some points in time, it is like - you are the igorant one, can't you do the work to educate yourself?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 05, 2021, 11:57:03 AM
It's one of two basic problems of Progressives.

Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is one. Assuming that everyone who doesn't already agree with their positions are irredeemable, where those positions are articulated through slogans and buzzwords, is another.

It is certainly better than the twin problems of the American right, which are that they have been taken over by the batshit crazy and/or actively evil.

What's wrong with "whites privilege" as a term? It is this: a privilege is usually thought of something good, though undeserved, or certainly unearned. The subtext appears to be that it is something you wish to take away from the undeserving, rather than a fair level playing field you want to give to everyone. The natural reaction on the part of the owners of the "privilege" is "so, you want to take something away from me? Make my life actively harder than it is now? And I deserve that because I did not earn what I currently have? And my Asian friend isn't subject to this?"

Yet that is not the goal at all. It does not take anything away from a white person if (say) a black person is *not* harassed by the cops, or if a black person dies *not* spend extra time in jail. Maybe in some ways it is a tangential advantage (if a white person is competing for a job he or she may get it instead of a better qualified black person). But it is pretty clear if such advantages were explained, being stripped of them would arouse the same resistance.

The term is intended to describe something every reasonable person agrees is a problem, but does do in a way that seems designed to arouse resistance and defensiveness on the part of the people who must be convinced of its validity in order to advance the agreed policy goal (a society in which one's race is not a disadvantage).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 05, 2021, 12:17:59 PM
Criticism about the perfect being the enemy of the good would similarly apply to people who would rather have the perfectly comfortable word than the actual fight.

I mean at this point, the Conservative propaganda machine is going to twist and villify any word being used and they are not motivated by a desire for appropriate semantics. They would find discrimination, disadvantage, etc. objectionable too. It was not tool long ago that a major conservative talking point was precisely that civil rights were achieved, and it was time to move on. A talking point backed by the actual dismantling of  anti-discriminatory legal architecture.

A lot of my activist friends, especially within Black communities, are just fed up at this point with demands that different words be used, because it is neither clear that those making those demands are willing to fight for the cause in meaningful ways, or would be if the words used were different; nor is it clear that changing words would actually achieve what it would. You and I have the great privilege - and I am sure you'd not object of labelling it this way - of finding work, enjoyment, and time in discussing the meaning of words in great detail. But their point to me was: spend at a minimum as much time talking about racial justice as you would arguing about the proper label to use. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 05, 2021, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 05, 2021, 12:17:59 PM
Criticism about the perfect being the enemy of the good would similarly apply to people who would rather have the perfectly comfortable word than the actual fight.

I believe I started this conversation saying that while the word sucks it is more pressing to address the actual issues.

After all we are addressing a meme, propaganda really meant to convince others that the right wing views are correct, not an actual issue. If we are going to have a political fight though, a battle of propaganda, having the best words would help. Just saying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 12:53:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 11:42:34 AM
Not everyone went to Stanford, garbon.

I don't think using a search engine was a required course at Stanford.

I agree, of course, that not everyone is as curious, but you should also recognize that it can get tedious as well as heartbreaking for minorities to have to repeatedly explain how their world works. At some points in time, it is like - you are the igorant one, can't you do the work to educate yourself?

No, most people don't go out of their way to understand other people's problems let alone try to do something about them.  You want to make people care about your problems, you need to go tell them.  In fact, it helps to learn what their problems are as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 12:53:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 11:42:34 AM
Not everyone went to Stanford, garbon.

I don't think using a search engine was a required course at Stanford.

I agree, of course, that not everyone is as curious, but you should also recognize that it can get tedious as well as heartbreaking for minorities to have to repeatedly explain how their world works. At some points in time, it is like - you are the igorant one, can't you do the work to educate yourself?

No, most people don't go out of their way to understand other people's problems let alone try to do something about them.  You want to make people care about your problems, you need to go tell them.  In fact, it helps to learn what their problems are as well.

Then let me say this simply - How the fuck could a grown adult in America today not be aware of problems facing their fellow Americans? I can totally get you might not grasp the tight countors of the issues, but to be ignorant of racism and its effects on society - at best you are being willfully blind and ignoring that which doesn't directly impact you.  And oddly enough that's what white privilege describes

To then be a person who ignores that racism is an issue, because it doesn't directly affect you, and then play pedantic games about how a term used by some people when agitating for rights makes you feel uncomfortable? Some people just can't be reached.

Also, I hope that's not the case that most people don't bother to learn about other people's problems. What a sad, cynical world. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 12:58:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2021, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 05, 2021, 12:17:59 PM
Criticism about the perfect being the enemy of the good would similarly apply to people who would rather have the perfectly comfortable word than the actual fight.

I believe I started this conversation saying that while the word sucks it is more pressing to address the actual issues.

After all we are addressing a meme, propaganda really meant to convince others that the right wing views are correct, not an actual issue. If we are going to have a political fight though, a battle of propaganda, having the best words would help. Just saying.

You mean those best words that no one seems to be able to locate?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 05, 2021, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2021, 12:44:53 PMo address the actual issues.
After all we are addressing a meme, propaganda really meant to convince others that the right wing views are correct, not an actual issue. If we are going to have a political fight though, a battle of propaganda, having the best words would help. Just saying.

I actually disagree: I don't think the "best words" are always the more inocuous ones. As garbon has said, Republicans have not done a great deal of effort carefully curating their words to the delicate sensibility of centrists. Continuously rehashing how privilege is a terrible word (unsurprisingly, I don't think it is) is in fact yielding the ground to a conservative agenda. It may be that the Democratic coalition requires such degree of semantic artistry, carefully avoiding any word that would give a hint of a progressive agenda, whereas Republicans can rely in built-in institutional failures to remain in power, in which case, maybe the Democrats need a fucking clue and stay disciplined about messaging.   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 01:02:27 PM
We live in a fairly segregated society, garbon.  Do you spend much time learning about other people's problems?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 05, 2021, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 06:45:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 05:26:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 05:08:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 04, 2021, 04:56:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2021, 04:33:26 PM
So where and how would you explain white privilege to these people?

I think there has been enough explanation.

And you wonder why there is so much resistance to the Idea.

No, I don't wonder.  I have a pretty good idea why there is so much resistance to accepting the truth that white privilege exists.


Yeah, calling someone racist doesn't exactly help either.

I think it unlikely that racists don't understand that white privilege exists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 01:02:27 PM
We live in a fairly segregated society, garbon.

It is on the news a lot and was very much on the news last year.  Maybe they should have spent less time saying Blue Lives Matter and looked a little into what was actually being discussed?

Also, personally I'm not sure I know much about that. My family has always had a wide range of political, socioeconomic, gender, sexuality and racial backgrounds. I suppose my friends have more similar socioeconomic statuses but still from a wide array of backgrounds and countries.  Now, I recognize that isn't true of everyone but if you are white in an all white enclave and have made no relationships with non-white people, you gotta look at yourself.

Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 01:02:27 PMDo you spend much time learning about other people's problems?

Yes, I would say so. I try to make an effort to educate myself about different points of view, different struggles and hardships that people face that are so alien to my own privileged existence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 05, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 12:58:28 PM
You mean those best words that no one seems to be able to locate?

I don't know. You have proposed better options yourself. Are we to conclude that since this term may not be very effective there are no effective terms or rhetoric?

In any case I was just lamenting this situation. I mean the horse is so far out of the barn now that it is just an intellectual exercise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 12:58:28 PM
You mean those best words that no one seems to be able to locate?

I don't know. You have proposed better options yourself. Are we to conclude that since this term may not be very effective there are no effective terms or rhetoric?

What terms did I propose? :unsure:

I think my point (and a few others) is that term is probably not as big of a deal as purported. Those turned off by it or making angry memes were probably not going to be activated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 02:11:50 PM
garbon, there are lots of place where they just aren't many black people.  I'm not talking about "white enclaves" I'm talking about vast regions.  Like Idaho or Maine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on February 05, 2021, 02:19:27 PM
I think the "bad words" is actually a good thing as quite obviously there has been this simmering undercurrent of racism among people, the obvious systemic racism of institutions, and a general wallpapering over problems with a "well it's all fixed now" attitudes.

This gets the latent problem into the open, shows the intolerance that has been there, and the idiocy of the arguments.  It is not about finding good words to sooth the people so they realize the error of their ways, it is about pointing out that there is still a very strong, vicious, and hateful racism ingrained in the society that exists at the very roots.

How do we solve this?  Fuck if I know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 02:32:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 02:11:50 PM
garbon, there are lots of place where they just aren't many black people.  I'm not talking about "white enclaves" I'm talking about vast regions.  Like Idaho or Maine.

And now let's think about why that's the case.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 02:34:50 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 05, 2021, 02:19:27 PM
I think the "bad words" is actually a good thing as quite obviously there has been this simmering undercurrent of racism among people, the obvious systemic racism of institutions, and a general wallpapering over problems with a "well it's all fixed now" attitudes.

This gets the latent problem into the open, shows the intolerance that has been there, and the idiocy of the arguments.  It is not about finding good words to sooth the people so they realize the error of their ways, it is about pointing out that there is still a very strong, vicious, and hateful racism ingrained in the society that exists at the very roots.

How do we solve this?  Fuck if I know.


I would focus on the systemic racism.  Make the argument that racist systems cause non-racist people to racist things without fulling understanding it.  While simplistic and not entirely true it is true enough to be helpful.  The point is to improve the lives of black people, if that means you need to off load guilt to an impersonal system to accomplish that, then that is the road you should take.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 02:36:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 02:32:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 02:11:50 PM
garbon, there are lots of place where they just aren't many black people.  I'm not talking about "white enclaves" I'm talking about vast regions.  Like Idaho or Maine.

And now let's think about why that's the case.

Cause these places didn't have the large number of industrial jobs that attracted black workers in the Great Migration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 05, 2021, 02:43:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2021, 12:58:28 PM
You mean those best words that no one seems to be able to locate?

I don't know. You have proposed better options yourself. Are we to conclude that since this term may not be very effective there are no effective terms or rhetoric?

What terms did I propose? :unsure:

I think my point (and a few others) is that term is probably not as big of a deal as purported. Those turned off by it or making angry memes were probably not going to be activated.

Black tax I thought you said?

But I basically agree it is not a huge deal. Focus on the issues and I think most people will buy in. Terms like White Privilege are not ideal but they probably mostly just stir up the Twitterati and the like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 05, 2021, 04:11:45 PM
We could use the term "systemic racism" rather than "white privilege."  That's something that is an active evil, not just a byproduct of an active evil.

Better to focus on the disease than the symptom, IMO.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: merithyn on February 05, 2021, 04:15:49 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 03, 2021, 05:30:54 PM
:yes: Trevor Noah once said that in South Africa they call it "black tax", not "white privilege", precisely because telling a poor white person that they have "white privilege" is cruel, lacking in empathy, and is not productive in getting them to see your point.

I like this. I think going forward, that's how I'll refer to it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 05, 2021, 04:44:24 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 05, 2021, 04:11:45 PM
We could use the term "systemic racism" rather than "white privilege."  That's something that is an active evil, not just a byproduct of an active evil.

Better to focus on the disease than the symptom, IMO.


Everybody can be against systemic racism.  The folks who are resistant to using the term white privilege may even think they are the ones that need protecting.

A good bland way of ignoring the there is a white skinned group that has the privilege.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 05, 2021, 06:29:56 PM
I love the way the extremists work so hard to avoid terms that don't polarize.  They've gotta be fighting evil, not seeking consensus on what's good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 05, 2021, 06:35:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 02:34:50 PM
I would focus on the systemic racism.  Make the argument that racist systems cause non-racist people to racist things without fulling understanding it.  While simplistic and not entirely true it is true enough to be helpful.  The point is to improve the lives of black people, if that means you need to off load guilt to an impersonal system to accomplish that, then that is the road you should take.

"Systemic racism" gets just as bad a "this is not the right term, choose your words more carefully treatment" as "white privilige" does. It gets the whole "I'm not a racist" response, followed by "you say the system is racist, but I know someone in the system and they're not racist," followed by "the system is messed up for everyone" and/ or "how do you know the system was picking on you, if Black people only followed police instructions/ didn't act Black/ didn't sell drugs/ whatever there wouldn't be a problem" line.

The issue is not the term. The issue is that people who prefer living in a world where white privilege is entrenched use every rhetorical trick in the book to dissemble, and other people fall for it. But no matter what terms are employed, the regressive right will mount a massive assault on it to make it anathema.

It is not helped by some lefty diehards obnoxiously wielding the term as a bludgeon, but the core problem is that people don't want to consider the content of the term.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 05, 2021, 06:36:23 PM
Quote from: ulmont on February 05, 2021, 10:54:09 AM
The fundamental problem is that it's tough to convince someone that their life would be worse if they weren't white while their life sucks.  I've got no solution for that, although I think that working on universal programs might help somewhat.

Similarly, it is fundamentally tough to convince a significant number of people who are well off that they're well off because they had the good sense to be born to white parents who are similarly well off rather than because they're inherently gifted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 05, 2021, 06:38:39 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 05, 2021, 04:11:45 PM
We could use the term "systemic racism" rather than "white privilege."  That's something that is an active evil, not just a byproduct of an active evil.

Better to focus on the disease than the symptom, IMO.

I'm totally down for switching terms to try to reach and persuade a wider audience. I do, however, make the prediction that if we make "systemic racism" the main term used to discuss the issue then "systemic racism" will be declared a poor term unfit for purpose by the usual suspects in short order.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2021, 06:55:30 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 05, 2021, 06:38:39 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 05, 2021, 04:11:45 PM
We could use the term "systemic racism" rather than "white privilege."  That's something that is an active evil, not just a byproduct of an active evil.

Better to focus on the disease than the symptom, IMO.

I'm totally down for switching terms to try to reach and persuade a wider audience. I do, however, make the prediction that if we make "systemic racism" the main term used to discuss the issue then "systemic racism" will be declared a poor term unfit for purpose by the usual suspects in short order.

We don't even have to guess as we already know it is seen as a left myth in America.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 05, 2021, 06:59:37 PM
I mean, just as a thought exercise can we think of a widely used term to describe a situation of significant social inequality (that is current in the US) that is generally accepted as being apt and appropriate across the spectrum? In particular, I'm interested in the kind of well meaning people that Raz and Yi are concerned about, that may be willing to listen if we find the right way to talk to them.

"Toxic masculinity" is definitely is not accepted. "White privilige" certainly isn't and neither is "male privilige". In my experience "systemic racism" isn't accepted either, but maybe it is? Or maybe it's not used widely at the moment? How about "homophobia" - is that accepted as a term that describes a real and pervasive phenomena by the audience we're theoretically trying to reach by finding an alternative to "white privilige"? "Black Lives Matter" certainly isn't accepted across the political spectrum, at least in my observation.

My hypothesis is that the people who reject the term "white privilige" are not doing so because they're unable to understand what the term means. Nor is it, I believe, because they're necessarily particularly racist. Rather, I think it's because the people who are not explicitly racist are immersed in media and propaganda designed to effectively tarnish any of those terms and render them toxic.

So IMO, there is value in finding alternate terms and modes of explanation - that are not yet tarnished - to try to reach the people in the middle who are reachable. That's a battle that's worth fighting, though it's hard (precisely because the terms get attacked the moment they gain any currency). However I don't think there's much to be gained from endlessly dissecting the nuance of why any given term is just not appropriate because the answer is the same - the moment a term describing a problem of social inequality/ a proposed solution to social inequality/ or a movement to counter that social inequality there is a massive deployment of social and traditional media to load the term down with baggage and drown it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 05, 2021, 07:49:40 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 05, 2021, 12:17:59 PM
Criticism about the perfect being the enemy of the good would similarly apply to people who would rather have the perfectly comfortable word than the actual fight.

I mean at this point, the Conservative propaganda machine is going to twist and villify any word being used and they are not motivated by a desire for appropriate semantics. They would find discrimination, disadvantage, etc. objectionable too. It was not tool long ago that a major conservative talking point was precisely that civil rights were achieved, and it was time to move on. A talking point backed by the actual dismantling of  anti-discriminatory legal architecture.

A lot of my activist friends, especially within Black communities, are just fed up at this point with demands that different words be used, because it is neither clear that those making those demands are willing to fight for the cause in meaningful ways, or would be if the words used were different; nor is it clear that changing words would actually achieve what it would. You and I have the great privilege - and I am sure you'd not object of labelling it this way - of finding work, enjoyment, and time in discussing the meaning of words in great detail. But their point to me was: spend at a minimum as much time talking about racial justice as you would arguing about the proper label to use.

Point is that people can disagree on what is, at base, a public relations strategy.

No-one is "demanding" anyone use or not use specific words. The argument here is that this particular slogan makes for a bad strategy, in that it doesn't produce the results that are wanted, and that seems an endemic problem for Progressives - see "defund the police" for another example.

Why must progressives insist on shooting themselves in the foot like this? Perhaps because they make everything a battle over authenticity - not about effectiveness. An authentic gesture is better, more emotionally satisfying, and will garner more respect than questioning its effectiveness, which will be seen as weak and pandering to the enemy.

Problem is a tendency to define an ever-greater percentage of the public as "the enemy" who ought not to be pandered to. Hence the tendency to make the perfect the enemy of the good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 08:14:12 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 05, 2021, 06:35:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 02:34:50 PM
I would focus on the systemic racism.  Make the argument that racist systems cause non-racist people to racist things without fulling understanding it.  While simplistic and not entirely true it is true enough to be helpful.  The point is to improve the lives of black people, if that means you need to off load guilt to an impersonal system to accomplish that, then that is the road you should take.

"Systemic racism" gets just as bad a "this is not the right term, choose your words more carefully treatment" as "white privilige" does. It gets the whole "I'm not a racist" response, followed by "you say the system is racist, but I know someone in the system and they're not racist," followed by "the system is messed up for everyone" and/ or "how do you know the system was picking on you, if Black people only followed police instructions/ didn't act Black/ didn't sell drugs/ whatever there wouldn't be a problem" line.

The issue is not the term. The issue is that people who prefer living in a world where white privilege is entrenched use every rhetorical trick in the book to dissemble, and other people fall for it. But no matter what terms are employed, the regressive right will mount a massive assault on it to make it anathema.

It is not helped by some lefty diehards obnoxiously wielding the term as a bludgeon, but the core problem is that people don't want to consider the content of the term.

Then what is the point?  If all those people who disagree with you are simply bad racist people what is the point of protests and writings etc?  Why bother saying anything?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 05, 2021, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 05, 2021, 06:38:39 PM
I'm totally down for switching terms to try to reach and persuade a wider audience. I do, however, make the prediction that if we make "systemic racism" the main term used to discuss the issue then "systemic racism" will be declared a poor term unfit for purpose by the usual suspects in short order.

Systemic racism has the virtue (or the vice, if you are a fanatic) of not ascribing guilt to any person or group.  It's like an earthquake - it happened because of things outside anyone's direct control.  But its effects can be ameliorated if we decide to be concerned about that (and for most of human history nothing was done about earthquakes).  Systemic racism is a "disease" that can be "treated" without making anyone feel guilty. 

"White privilege" is effectively an accusation, and doesn't even contain in it any indication that it can be ameliorated. 

The problem is racism, not "white something something."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 12:37:08 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 05, 2021, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2021, 12:44:53 PMo address the actual issues.
After all we are addressing a meme, propaganda really meant to convince others that the right wing views are correct, not an actual issue. If we are going to have a political fight though, a battle of propaganda, having the best words would help. Just saying.

I actually disagree: I don't think the "best words" are always the more inocuous ones. As garbon has said, Republicans have not done a great deal of effort carefully curating their words to the delicate sensibility of centrists. Continuously rehashing how privilege is a terrible word (unsurprisingly, I don't think it is) is in fact yielding the ground to a conservative agenda. It may be that the Democratic coalition requires such degree of semantic artistry, carefully avoiding any word that would give a hint of a progressive agenda, whereas Republicans can rely in built-in institutional failures to remain in power, in which case, maybe the Democrats need a fucking clue and stay disciplined about messaging.   

I totally get what you are saying, and I agree with it. It does seem like the left has to dance around terms and go to ridiculous efforts to try to craft a message. While the right just talks about the most stupid shit, and are fine with "lock her up!" or "build the wall!" and nobody seems to care how stupid their labels are....

But here is the thing that drives me nuts. We are the good guys, and this should be a simple, trivially won debate. We have the science on our side, the facts, the sociology, the simple reason, even the basic common sense.

And yet.....almost half of the voters still say "Yeah, that Trump guy seems like the best bet".

The progressives are doing SOMETHING wrong. Their message is failing to get to a lot of people. I think there is a very real problem that the left crafts their messages for the left, and doesn't bother trying to reach anyone else. The right does this as well, of course, but they don't seem interested in reaching anyone else and hence don't care that their message is just obvious bullshit.

I don't know what the answer is overall. I do know that I can see that the progressive left absolutely sucks at messaging though. They have all the things that ought to mean they should be crusing the right in the court of public debate, and by and large they are winning. But by margins that are distressingly narrow considering the import of the discussion.

I want to figure out how they can do better. And a term like "white privilege" or "defund the police"...well, we can sit here and argue amongst ourselves all day long about how they really are accurate terms, but the fact is that there is no question that in both cases the terms are not helping convince anyone not already convinced.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 06, 2021, 12:59:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 08:14:12 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 05, 2021, 06:35:41 PM
"Systemic racism" gets just as bad a "this is not the right term, choose your words more carefully treatment" as "white privilige" does. It gets the whole "I'm not a racist" response, followed by "you say the system is racist, but I know someone in the system and they're not racist," followed by "the system is messed up for everyone" and/ or "how do you know the system was picking on you, if Black people only followed police instructions/ didn't act Black/ didn't sell drugs/ whatever there wouldn't be a problem" line.

The issue is not the term. The issue is that people who prefer living in a world where white privilege is entrenched use every rhetorical trick in the book to dissemble, and other people fall for it. But no matter what terms are employed, the regressive right will mount a massive assault on it to make it anathema.

It is not helped by some lefty diehards obnoxiously wielding the term as a bludgeon, but the core problem is that people don't want to consider the content of the term.

Then what is the point?  If all those people who disagree with you are simply bad racist people what is the point of protests and writings etc?  Why bother saying anything?

Is this a rhetorical question? Because I certainly didn't say that "people who disagree with me are simply bad racist people."

I said: some people do in fact enjoy the benefits they accrue from white privilege and use every rhetorical technique they can to undermine critiques of white privilege, whatever term is used. Other people are persuaded by those rhetorical techniques, even if they may otherwise be amenable to listening to critiques of white privilege.

And suggested that if we start using "systemic racism" instead of "white privilege" we'll see the same rhetorical assault on that term, and the people who are put off by "white privilege" as a term now, without being particularly racist, will be put off by the term "systemic racism" once the people who do prefer white privilege get going with their rhetoric.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2021, 02:27:20 AM
Search fox News and systemic racism into Google. You'll see the term is untenable as conservatives have already denied its existence or that it exists in the American body politic.

I would suggest there are those on the right uninterested about race as it does no affect them. As such there is no ideal term that will pique their interest.

And then to the extent that the Republicans can paint Democrats as a party who only cares about minorities, any terms used are free targets of mockery and denial.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 06, 2021, 04:47:47 AM
Quote from: Jacob on February 06, 2021, 12:59:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2021, 08:14:12 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 05, 2021, 06:35:41 PM
"Systemic racism" gets just as bad a "this is not the right term, choose your words more carefully treatment" as "white privilige" does. It gets the whole "I'm not a racist" response, followed by "you say the system is racist, but I know someone in the system and they're not racist," followed by "the system is messed up for everyone" and/ or "how do you know the system was picking on you, if Black people only followed police instructions/ didn't act Black/ didn't sell drugs/ whatever there wouldn't be a problem" line.

The issue is not the term. The issue is that people who prefer living in a world where white privilege is entrenched use every rhetorical trick in the book to dissemble, and other people fall for it. But no matter what terms are employed, the regressive right will mount a massive assault on it to make it anathema.

It is not helped by some lefty diehards obnoxiously wielding the term as a bludgeon, but the core problem is that people don't want to consider the content of the term.

Then what is the point?  If all those people who disagree with you are simply bad racist people what is the point of protests and writings etc?  Why bother saying anything?

Is this a rhetorical question? Because I certainly didn't say that "people who disagree with me are simply bad racist people."

I said: some people do in fact enjoy the benefits they accrue from white privilege and use every rhetorical technique they can to undermine critiques of white privilege, whatever term is used. Other people are persuaded by those rhetorical techniques, even if they may otherwise be amenable to listening to critiques of white privilege.

And suggested that if we start using "systemic racism" instead of "white privilege" we'll see the same rhetorical assault on that term, and the people who are put off by "white privilege" as a term now, without being particularly racist, will be put off by the term "systemic racism" once the people who do prefer white privilege get going with their rhetoric.


Okay, I misread your post.  Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 09:41:03 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 06, 2021, 02:27:20 AM
Search fox News and systemic racism into Google. You'll see the term is untenable as conservatives have already denied its existence or that it exists in the American body politic.

Wait - so your metric for being untenable is that conservatives deny that it exists? Really? They deny that white privilege exists as well, they deny that climate change exists. Are you arguing that we should stop using the term climate change as well?

This is a public debate. Those who want to protect the status quo and their own privilege are going to attack and term used to label the issue at hand. You can call climate change global warming, things getting hotter, whatever - those who want to keep burning carbon are going to attack all of them. That doesn't make any particular term untenable.

It does mean it makes sense to find terms that are not going to just emotionally piss off the very people you are trying to sway to your side.

Quote

I would suggest there are those on the right uninterested about race as it does no affect them. As such there is no ideal term that will pique their interest.

Of course - there are those on the other side of the debate who do not care whether white privilege exists or systemic racism exists or not - they don't want things to change, and will fight against it no matter what label you put on it. That doesn't mean the label doesn't matter, so we might as well pick something that makes US feel deliciously woke rather then a label (like systemic racism) that describes the problem well, but doesn't tend to get the very people we are trying to convince defensive because it sounds a lot like a direct attack on them.

The term is so clearly counter productive. What we need to be convincing people of is that *even though THEY may not be racist assholes, and even though THEIR actions may not be directly harming others, others are in fact being harmed anyway, and fixing that harm requires that even people like themselves who are not directly responsible for that harm have to understand, think about, and DO something about it*. Using a term that for many of them immediately sounds a hell of a lot like "this is YOUR fault! YOU are enjooying "privileges" you don't deserve!" YOU ARE THE PROBLEM is nuts.

This is such a classic examples of the adage that conservatives care about winning elections, and liberal care about winning debates.
Quote
And then to the extent that the Republicans can paint Democrats as a party who only cares about minorities, any terms used are free targets of mockery and denial.

Of course. No reason to make it easier for them though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2021, 09:43:14 AM
But they are part of the problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Anyway if you want to fiddle with terminology have at it. I don't think there's much more to say on the topic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 09:50:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 06, 2021, 09:43:14 AM
But they are part of the problem.

Of course they are.

Remember, I absolutely agree that "white privilege" is actually an excellent term for describing the basic problem, once you understand what it is means (or more importantly perhaps, once you understand what it DOES NOT mean).

They are absolutely part of the problem. So how do we convince them to do, act, and vote differently? Given that we know how reluctant humans are to ever admit they are part of any problem, and how willing those who actively do not want to fix the problem will exploit that human tendency?

"White privilege" is basically saying the best way to handle this is to grab them by the back of the head and shove their face into it and demand they admit it's their fault. It's the demand that we win the debate, and who cares if we win the next vote.

That might be true, but if the goal is to convince, it won't work. And it hasn't worked. Indeed, I would argue that among those who we are trying to convince, the use of rhetoric like "white privilege" and "defund the police" has badly backfired, and we are considerably further from making non-progressives understand this then we were say 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on February 06, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 12:37:08 AM
The progressives are doing SOMETHING wrong. Their message is failing to get to a lot of people. I think there is a very real problem that the left crafts their messages for the left, and doesn't bother trying to reach anyone else. The right does this as well, of course, but they don't seem interested in reaching anyone else and hence don't care that their message is just obvious bullshit.

I don't know what the answer is overall. I do know that I can see that the progressive left absolutely sucks at messaging though. They have all the things that ought to mean they should be crusing the right in the court of public debate, and by and large they are winning. But by margins that are distressingly narrow considering the import of the discussion.

I don't think it is entirely the progressive's fault, and they definitely don't have all the advantages.  We are at a point where large parts of the population are seeing their financial and social positions deteriorating, with a not at all certain future.  They are in a position that is ripe for demagoguery, and the right has the propaganda channels and simple language that taps into the base fear these people are experiencing.

We have a political party that is encouraged to drive more people into those desperate situations as it increases their audience.  They've convinced people that "socialism" or any other attempt to actually help them other than giving rich people/corporations more money will destroy the country.  How do you get through that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 06, 2021, 11:30:19 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 06, 2021, 04:47:47 AM
Okay, I misread your post.  Sorry about that.

All good :hug:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 11:49:33 AM
Quote from: frunk on February 06, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 12:37:08 AM
The progressives are doing SOMETHING wrong. Their message is failing to get to a lot of people. I think there is a very real problem that the left crafts their messages for the left, and doesn't bother trying to reach anyone else. The right does this as well, of course, but they don't seem interested in reaching anyone else and hence don't care that their message is just obvious bullshit.

I don't know what the answer is overall. I do know that I can see that the progressive left absolutely sucks at messaging though. They have all the things that ought to mean they should be crusing the right in the court of public debate, and by and large they are winning. But by margins that are distressingly narrow considering the import of the discussion.

I don't think it is entirely the progressive's fault, and they definitely don't have all the advantages.  We are at a point where large parts of the population are seeing their financial and social positions deteriorating, with a not at all certain future.  They are in a position that is ripe for demagoguery, and the right has the propaganda channels and simple language that taps into the base fear these people are experiencing.

We have a political party that is encouraged to drive more people into those desperate situations as it increases their audience.  They've convinced people that "socialism" or any other attempt to actually help them other than giving rich people/corporations more money will destroy the country.  How do you get through that?

With some left wing populism of our own. Start crafting a message to appeal to those people, rather than a message that appeals to intellectuals who are already convinced.

I don't think it is entirely the lefts fault either - I don't even think it is mostly the lefts fault. Fighting against authoritarian neo-fascism dressed up as individualistic "patriotism" is not easy, as many have learned throughout history.

But when something is hard to do, that means we should work harder to do it, and do so with more care and thought, not less.

There is plenty that the left does that just totally own-goals ourselves though. There is rampant hyposcrisy, plenty of mob rule stupidity, and this kind of petulant embrace of symbols and labels that seem, to me, to be mostly about signalling how woke we all are, rather then actually wanting to accomplish anything, much less simply win political fights. The GOP controls a majority of the governors positions, a majority of state legislatures, and keeps somehow managing to convince nearly half the voters that their message is palatable. We are doing something wrong.

Again, I said this before - this debate is such a perfect example of the "Liberals want to win debates, and conservatives want to win elections" stereotype. Nobody defending the use of the term white privilege has done so on the basis that they actually think it will help win a single election - only on the basis that it is a valid term. Which it is, and which it won't.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 06, 2021, 12:52:36 PM
Actually since somebody mentioned climate change - it's a good example.

Last couple of years or so I have noticed a definitive move away from "global warming" into "climate change" as the name for it.

Which I think has had to help. "global warming" is easy to ridicule (and often was) when you are hit with unusually cold weather. But when you are facing chaotic weather, it is far easier to explain the concept it is because "climate change".

It is a meaningless difference if you paid attention to the issue to any degree, but a lot of people haven't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2021, 01:16:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 11:49:33 AM
Quote from: frunk on February 06, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 12:37:08 AM
The progressives are doing SOMETHING wrong. Their message is failing to get to a lot of people. I think there is a very real problem that the left crafts their messages for the left, and doesn't bother trying to reach anyone else. The right does this as well, of course, but they don't seem interested in reaching anyone else and hence don't care that their message is just obvious bullshit.

I don't know what the answer is overall. I do know that I can see that the progressive left absolutely sucks at messaging though. They have all the things that ought to mean they should be crusing the right in the court of public debate, and by and large they are winning. But by margins that are distressingly narrow considering the import of the discussion.

I don't think it is entirely the progressive's fault, and they definitely don't have all the advantages.  We are at a point where large parts of the population are seeing their financial and social positions deteriorating, with a not at all certain future.  They are in a position that is ripe for demagoguery, and the right has the propaganda channels and simple language that taps into the base fear these people are experiencing.

We have a political party that is encouraged to drive more people into those desperate situations as it increases their audience.  They've convinced people that "socialism" or any other attempt to actually help them other than giving rich people/corporations more money will destroy the country.  How do you get through that?

With some left wing populism of our own. Start crafting a message to appeal to those people, rather than a message that appeals to intellectuals who are already convinced.

I don't think it is entirely the lefts fault either - I don't even think it is mostly the lefts fault. Fighting against authoritarian neo-fascism dressed up as individualistic "patriotism" is not easy, as many have learned throughout history.

But when something is hard to do, that means we should work harder to do it, and do so with more care and thought, not less.

There is plenty that the left does that just totally own-goals ourselves though. There is rampant hyposcrisy, plenty of mob rule stupidity, and this kind of petulant embrace of symbols and labels that seem, to me, to be mostly about signalling how woke we all are, rather then actually wanting to accomplish anything, much less simply win political fights. The GOP controls a majority of the governors positions, a majority of state legislatures, and keeps somehow managing to convince nearly half the voters that their message is palatable. We are doing something wrong.

Again, I said this before - this debate is such a perfect example of the "Liberals want to win debates, and conservatives want to win elections" stereotype. Nobody defending the use of the term white privilege has done so on the basis that they actually think it will help win a single election - only on the basis that it is a valid term. Which it is, and which it won't.



Hold up, I think you've flipped the script. If goal is to win elections, they probably shouldn't say all that much about race or just enough so Dem supporters feel comfortable. Any truthful rhetoric will just be a turn off to those who don't want to be challenged about their complancency.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 01:28:14 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 06, 2021, 01:16:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 11:49:33 AM
Quote from: frunk on February 06, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 12:37:08 AM
The progressives are doing SOMETHING wrong. Their message is failing to get to a lot of people. I think there is a very real problem that the left crafts their messages for the left, and doesn't bother trying to reach anyone else. The right does this as well, of course, but they don't seem interested in reaching anyone else and hence don't care that their message is just obvious bullshit.

I don't know what the answer is overall. I do know that I can see that the progressive left absolutely sucks at messaging though. They have all the things that ought to mean they should be crusing the right in the court of public debate, and by and large they are winning. But by margins that are distressingly narrow considering the import of the discussion.

I don't think it is entirely the progressive's fault, and they definitely don't have all the advantages.  We are at a point where large parts of the population are seeing their financial and social positions deteriorating, with a not at all certain future.  They are in a position that is ripe for demagoguery, and the right has the propaganda channels and simple language that taps into the base fear these people are experiencing.

We have a political party that is encouraged to drive more people into those desperate situations as it increases their audience.  They've convinced people that "socialism" or any other attempt to actually help them other than giving rich people/corporations more money will destroy the country.  How do you get through that?

With some left wing populism of our own. Start crafting a message to appeal to those people, rather than a message that appeals to intellectuals who are already convinced.

I don't think it is entirely the lefts fault either - I don't even think it is mostly the lefts fault. Fighting against authoritarian neo-fascism dressed up as individualistic "patriotism" is not easy, as many have learned throughout history.

But when something is hard to do, that means we should work harder to do it, and do so with more care and thought, not less.

There is plenty that the left does that just totally own-goals ourselves though. There is rampant hyposcrisy, plenty of mob rule stupidity, and this kind of petulant embrace of symbols and labels that seem, to me, to be mostly about signalling how woke we all are, rather then actually wanting to accomplish anything, much less simply win political fights. The GOP controls a majority of the governors positions, a majority of state legislatures, and keeps somehow managing to convince nearly half the voters that their message is palatable. We are doing something wrong.

Again, I said this before - this debate is such a perfect example of the "Liberals want to win debates, and conservatives want to win elections" stereotype. Nobody defending the use of the term white privilege has done so on the basis that they actually think it will help win a single election - only on the basis that it is a valid term. Which it is, and which it won't.



Hold up, I think you've flipped the script. If goal is to win elections, they probably shouldn't say all that much about race or just enough so Dem supporters feel comfortable. Any truthful rhetoric will just be a turn off to those who don't want to be challenged about their complancency.

The goal is not to simply win elections, the goal is to win races so that the people who want to actually change things can do so.

And I think you sound like you are trying to craft a false dilemma - that the only way elections can be won is abandoning "truthful rhetoric". I suppose that might be true, but I don't believe that it is. And if it is, I suppose we are likely doomed to make this better barring a violent revolution that simply ignores concerns about convincing anyone of anything. Just force your views on those too stupid to be convinced by the "truthful rhetoric"?

You are also committing the fallacy of assuming your conclusion. The debate is about a label. You assume in your argument that to use some label other than "white privilege" is to NOT use truthful rhetoric. As if the only possible truthful label is the one you favor. But that mis-understands the very meaning of the term label. Labels are not truth, they are just labels for some idea. They can be more or less descriptive, more or less useful, but they are not "truth" themselves.

Just a little bit ago you claimed that we cannot use "systemic racism" because the conservatives have denied it exists, not because it wasn't "truthful rhetoric". When I pointed out that that was really a non-sensical objection, you seem to have just pretended that conversation didn't happen, and now object because anything other than "white privilege" ought to be assumed to be not truthful?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 06, 2021, 01:34:09 PM
No, I think systemic racism is a term that can be and is used. However, I think it falls into the same traps as white privilege. Already been rejected by the right so I don't see it winning elections.

And I think it is less truthful to use any term that doesn't make white people face the fact that they are ultimately responsible for maintain our racist society.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 06, 2021, 01:38:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 06, 2021, 01:16:10 PM
Hold up, I think you've flipped the script. If goal is to win elections, they probably shouldn't say all that much about race or just enough so Dem supporters feel comfortable. Any truthful rhetoric will just be a turn off to those who don't want to be challenged about their complancency.
No, the goal is the enact meaningful change.  That means you have to actually want to change things, but this being a democracy, you also have to win elections to enact those changes.  You need both together, one without the other is useless. 

Berkut is focusing on the election part probably because no one else is.  Smug self-satisfaction at one's exceptional perception of racial issues does not enact change; if anything, it makes it less likely that meaningful change would be enacted.  All it would accomplish is free you from having to find other issues to feel superior about, because this one will be an active one until the day you die.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.  It is an interesting rhetorical endeavor to try to find a non offensive term.  So inoffensive in fact that you don't have to worry about losing part of your big tent who would deny the existence of white privilege, systemic racism or any other phrase that describes the advantages white people have.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 06, 2021, 02:47:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.  It is an interesting rhetorical endeavor to try to find a non offensive term.  So inoffensive in fact that you don't have to worry about losing part of your big tent who would deny the existence of white privilege, systemic racism or any other phrase that describes the advantages white people have.

Though you have to keep an eye on the other side of your big tent as there is a risk that you'll lose people on the other side if you downplay racism so much that the people who care about it think you're not taking it seriously.

But that's politics, of course.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 03:55:00 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 06, 2021, 02:47:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.  It is an interesting rhetorical endeavor to try to find a non offensive term.  So inoffensive in fact that you don't have to worry about losing part of your big tent who would deny the existence of white privilege, systemic racism or any other phrase that describes the advantages white people have.

Though you have to keep an eye on the other side of your big tent as there is a risk that you'll lose people on the other side if you downplay racism so much that the people who care about it think you're not taking it seriously.

But that's politics, of course.

I meant my comment to be rebuke of his position, not in any way condoning or agreeing with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.


Go fuck yourself.

You are now accusing me of having as my agenda NOT to actually enact change, but to AVOID enacting change - that my position is an attempt to avoid "objective fact". You are accusing me, in fact, of being a racist intent on promoting racism.

That is so exactly opposite my entire point, and indeed my entire perspective through over ten years of discourse on Languish, there is no possible way you could arrive at such a fucking obtuse position in anything approaching good faith or honesty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 06, 2021, 04:33:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 06, 2021, 01:34:09 PM
And I think it is less truthful to use any term that doesn't make white people face the fact that they are ultimately responsible for maintain our racist society.
:yeahright:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 06, 2021, 05:54:03 PM
This here would be a good spot for people on CC's side to show they care about intellectually honesty, and call him out for being way out of line.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.


Go fuck yourself.

You are now accusing me of having as my agenda NOT to actually enact change, but to AVOID enacting change - that my position is an attempt to avoid "objective fact". You are accusing me, in fact, of being a racist intent on promoting racism.

That is so exactly opposite my entire point, and indeed my entire perspective through over ten years of discourse on Languish, there is no possible way you could arrive at such a fucking obtuse position in anything approaching good faith or honesty.

I am not accusing you of anything.  I am commenting on the effect of your position. I could not care less what your motivations might be.

But it is clear you really really don't like people pointing out that your positions are not as virtuous or correct as you imagine them to be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 06, 2021, 06:30:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 06, 2021, 05:54:03 PM
This here would be a good spot for people on CC's side to show they care about intellectually honesty, and call him out for being way out of line.

I'm not sure anyone is actually on CC's side.  Some may agree with some elements of his position, but I think that even those people recognize that having his "help" is like being handed an anvil when you are drowning.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2021, 08:00:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 06, 2021, 01:34:09 PM
And I think it is less truthful to use any term that doesn't make white people face the fact that they are ultimately responsible for maintain our racist society.

If they are responsible then how do you fix it without their help? If you are correct then one would think trying to get them to see that ultimately that system harms them as well would be a good idea? Yes?

And again I am talking about how communicate the message. How to get people on board.

You talk about Fox News and Right wingers and yeah it is not about them, it is about convincing the normies not the alt right crowd.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.


Go fuck yourself.

You are now accusing me of having as my agenda NOT to actually enact change, but to AVOID enacting change - that my position is an attempt to avoid "objective fact". You are accusing me, in fact, of being a racist intent on promoting racism.

That is so exactly opposite my entire point, and indeed my entire perspective through over ten years of discourse on Languish, there is no possible way you could arrive at such a fucking obtuse position in anything approaching good faith or honesty.

I am not accusing you of anything.  I am commenting on the effect of your position. I could not care less what your motivations might be.

But it is clear you really really don't like people pointing out that your positions are not as virtuous or correct as you imagine them to be.

A coward and a liar. Seriously, fuck off. You are a lying little piece of shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 06, 2021, 09:26:49 PM
What do the people who favor "White Privilege" argue about the far higher "Asian privilege?"  Asian-Americans are way disproportionately more likely to get accepted to college, they have a higher average income, etc.  Is this also the fault of "white people?"

The point is that focusing on making people feel guilty, and implying that they should surrender their "privilege" misses the point.  Imagine that there are two boats.  The blue boat is floating just fine.  The green boat is leaking and sinking.  Should the focus be on the fact that the blue boat has the "privilege" of having less water, or on the fact that the green boat is sinking?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 07, 2021, 08:24:20 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 06, 2021, 05:54:03 PM
This here would be a good spot for people on CC's side to show they care about intellectually honesty, and call him out for being way out of line.
I could do it, but then, I'd had to read the whole thread from where it started.  So, instead, I'll let you all argue about whatever it is you are arguing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 07, 2021, 11:06:48 AM
Well, that didn't go well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on February 07, 2021, 12:30:52 PM
So, how about those whacky relatives?  Wild stuff, eh?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 07, 2021, 02:30:16 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 07, 2021, 12:30:52 PM
So, how about those whacky relatives?  Wild stuff, eh?

Yeah, CC and Berkut being 2nd cousins means they often fight when they get together.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 01:44:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.


Go fuck yourself.

You are now accusing me of having as my agenda NOT to actually enact change, but to AVOID enacting change - that my position is an attempt to avoid "objective fact". You are accusing me, in fact, of being a racist intent on promoting racism.

That is so exactly opposite my entire point, and indeed my entire perspective through over ten years of discourse on Languish, there is no possible way you could arrive at such a fucking obtuse position in anything approaching good faith or honesty.

I am not accusing you of anything.  I am commenting on the effect of your position. I could not care less what your motivations might be.

But it is clear you really really don't like people pointing out that your positions are not as virtuous or correct as you imagine them to be.

A coward and a liar. Seriously, fuck off. You are a lying little piece of shit.

So sorry for your inability to counter an argument.  I really really hope this is an internet meme of yours and not how you function in real life circumstances.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 01:44:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.


Go fuck yourself.

You are now accusing me of having as my agenda NOT to actually enact change, but to AVOID enacting change - that my position is an attempt to avoid "objective fact". You are accusing me, in fact, of being a racist intent on promoting racism.

That is so exactly opposite my entire point, and indeed my entire perspective through over ten years of discourse on Languish, there is no possible way you could arrive at such a fucking obtuse position in anything approaching good faith or honesty.

I am not accusing you of anything.  I am commenting on the effect of your position. I could not care less what your motivations might be.

But it is clear you really really don't like people pointing out that your positions are not as virtuous or correct as you imagine them to be.

A coward and a liar. Seriously, fuck off. You are a lying little piece of shit.

So sorry for your inability to counter an argument.  I really really hope this is an internet meme of yours and not how you function in real life circumstances.

Seriously.

You are the first person on Languish I actually think is an actual piece of shit human being. Lying about people when you know you are lying about them is a shitty, douchebag thing to do, and pretending Languish isn't "real life" so that makes it ok just makes you even more of a coward. You don't get a pass because it's "just the internet". So yeah, CC, fuck off. Really. I could not care less how you try to pretend this is me just oh so incapable of responding to YOUR argument. You aren't nearly as smart as you think, and plenty of others have made a hell of a lot better arguments than you have, and didn't need to impugn anyones motives in the process.

So again. Go fuck yourself, you dishonest, weaselly little piece of offal. You will never get another response from me beyond this content, right here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 01:44:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.


Go fuck yourself.

You are now accusing me of having as my agenda NOT to actually enact change, but to AVOID enacting change - that my position is an attempt to avoid "objective fact". You are accusing me, in fact, of being a racist intent on promoting racism.

That is so exactly opposite my entire point, and indeed my entire perspective through over ten years of discourse on Languish, there is no possible way you could arrive at such a fucking obtuse position in anything approaching good faith or honesty.

I am not accusing you of anything.  I am commenting on the effect of your position. I could not care less what your motivations might be.

But it is clear you really really don't like people pointing out that your positions are not as virtuous or correct as you imagine them to be.

A coward and a liar. Seriously, fuck off. You are a lying little piece of shit.

So sorry for your inability to counter an argument.  I really really hope this is an internet meme of yours and not how you function in real life circumstances.

Seriously.

You are the first person on Languish I actually think is an actual piece of shit human being. Lying about people when you know you are lying about them is a shitty, douchebag thing to do, and pretending Languish isn't "real life" so that makes it ok just makes you even more of a coward. You don't get a pass because it's "just the internet". So yeah, CC, fuck off. Really. I could not care less how you try to pretend this is me just oh so incapable of responding to YOUR argument. You aren't nearly as smart as you think, and plenty of others have made a hell of a lot better arguments than you have, and didn't need to impugn anyones motives in the process.

So again. Go fuck yourself, you dishonest, weaselly little piece of offal. You will never get another response from me beyond this content, right here.

Tell me Berkut, does this approach ever work well for you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 03:38:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 01:44:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.


Go fuck yourself.

You are now accusing me of having as my agenda NOT to actually enact change, but to AVOID enacting change - that my position is an attempt to avoid "objective fact". You are accusing me, in fact, of being a racist intent on promoting racism.

That is so exactly opposite my entire point, and indeed my entire perspective through over ten years of discourse on Languish, there is no possible way you could arrive at such a fucking obtuse position in anything approaching good faith or honesty.

I am not accusing you of anything.  I am commenting on the effect of your position. I could not care less what your motivations might be.

But it is clear you really really don't like people pointing out that your positions are not as virtuous or correct as you imagine them to be.

A coward and a liar. Seriously, fuck off. You are a lying little piece of shit.

So sorry for your inability to counter an argument.  I really really hope this is an internet meme of yours and not how you function in real life circumstances.

Seriously.

You are the first person on Languish I actually think is an actual piece of shit human being. Lying about people when you know you are lying about them is a shitty, douchebag thing to do, and pretending Languish isn't "real life" so that makes it ok just makes you even more of a coward. You don't get a pass because it's "just the internet". So yeah, CC, fuck off. Really. I could not care less how you try to pretend this is me just oh so incapable of responding to YOUR argument. You aren't nearly as smart as you think, and plenty of others have made a hell of a lot better arguments than you have, and didn't need to impugn anyones motives in the process.

So again. Go fuck yourself, you dishonest, weaselly little piece of offal. You will never get another response from me beyond this content, right here.

Tell me Berkut, does this approach ever work well for you?

One might ask you the same, you dishonest little shit. Do you find lying about other people an effective way to make your point? Has it ever? Is the fact that you are one of the least respected people on the forum made a dent in your insistence on being such a lying little turd?

But yes, so far, in 100% of the cases, it has worked great for me. Thanks for asking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 03:46:51 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 03:38:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 01:44:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.


Go fuck yourself.

You are now accusing me of having as my agenda NOT to actually enact change, but to AVOID enacting change - that my position is an attempt to avoid "objective fact". You are accusing me, in fact, of being a racist intent on promoting racism.

That is so exactly opposite my entire point, and indeed my entire perspective through over ten years of discourse on Languish, there is no possible way you could arrive at such a fucking obtuse position in anything approaching good faith or honesty.

I am not accusing you of anything.  I am commenting on the effect of your position. I could not care less what your motivations might be.

But it is clear you really really don't like people pointing out that your positions are not as virtuous or correct as you imagine them to be.

A coward and a liar. Seriously, fuck off. You are a lying little piece of shit.

So sorry for your inability to counter an argument.  I really really hope this is an internet meme of yours and not how you function in real life circumstances.

Seriously.

You are the first person on Languish I actually think is an actual piece of shit human being. Lying about people when you know you are lying about them is a shitty, douchebag thing to do, and pretending Languish isn't "real life" so that makes it ok just makes you even more of a coward. You don't get a pass because it's "just the internet". So yeah, CC, fuck off. Really. I could not care less how you try to pretend this is me just oh so incapable of responding to YOUR argument. You aren't nearly as smart as you think, and plenty of others have made a hell of a lot better arguments than you have, and didn't need to impugn anyones motives in the process.

So again. Go fuck yourself, you dishonest, weaselly little piece of offal. You will never get another response from me beyond this content, right here.

Tell me Berkut, does this approach ever work well for you?

One might ask you the same, you dishonest little shit. Do you find lying about other people an effective way to make your point? Has it ever? Is the fact that you are one of the least respected people on the forum made a dent in your insistence on being such a lying little turd?

But yes, so far, in 100% of the cases, it has worked great for me. Thanks for asking.

typically when I say something a person disagrees with, they explain why they disagree with me.  I have not been called names since elementary school.  Probably says something about the choice of company I keep, and the lack of ability on this platform to only see the posts from the people I value interacting with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 08, 2021, 03:52:04 PM
Is your self-control so limited that you can't help but respond to people who you "value interacting with"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 08, 2021, 03:52:04 PM
Is your self-control so limited that you can't help but respond to people who you "value interacting with"?

I really don't mind standing up to bullies.  In fact I quite like it.

Berkut flies off the handle so often that we even created a smilie for it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 08, 2021, 03:52:04 PM
Is your self-control so limited that you can't help but respond to people who you "value interacting with"?

I really don't mind standing up to bullies.  In fact I quite like it.

Berkut flies off the handle so often that we even created a smilie for it.

Ahh, so now I am a bully, and you are the victim of bullying? That's just fucking adorable in its blatant lack of self awareness. It is downright Trumpian in its narcissism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 04:04:02 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 08, 2021, 03:52:04 PM
Is your self-control so limited that you can't help but respond to people who you "value interacting with"?

I really don't mind standing up to bullies.  In fact I quite like it.

Berkut flies off the handle so often that we even created a smilie for it.

Ahh, so now I am a bully, and you are the victim of bullying? That's just fucking adorable in its blatant lack of self awareness. It is downright Trumpian in its narcissism.

Well, what do you call a person who stoops to name calling and personal insults when they don't get their way?

Ever consider anger management counseling?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 08, 2021, 04:39:03 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 08, 2021, 03:52:04 PM
Is your self-control so limited that you can't help but respond to people who you "value interacting with"?

I really don't mind standing up to bullies.  In fact I quite like it.

Berkut flies off the handle so often that we even created a smilie for it.

Ahh, so now I am a bully, and you are the victim of bullying? That's just fucking adorable in its blatant lack of self awareness. It is downright Trumpian in its narcissism.

I thought that you were not ever going to respond to him again.  :huh:

That's really the best move.  CC's self-delusion is amusing, but interacting with it seems to get your blood boiling, so leave that to those of us that can interact with him and be amused rather than angry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 08, 2021, 06:47:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 03:46:51 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 03:38:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 08, 2021, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 08, 2021, 01:44:07 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Berkut's view becomes more understandable.  At a very superficial level this discussion is about a label.  At that superficial level one might worry about who might be offended.  If you define the "good guys" as the people you need to bring into the tent to win elections, without offending them, then you can avoid entirely the objective fact that white skinned people are privileged.


Go fuck yourself.

You are now accusing me of having as my agenda NOT to actually enact change, but to AVOID enacting change - that my position is an attempt to avoid "objective fact". You are accusing me, in fact, of being a racist intent on promoting racism.

That is so exactly opposite my entire point, and indeed my entire perspective through over ten years of discourse on Languish, there is no possible way you could arrive at such a fucking obtuse position in anything approaching good faith or honesty.

I am not accusing you of anything.  I am commenting on the effect of your position. I could not care less what your motivations might be.

But it is clear you really really don't like people pointing out that your positions are not as virtuous or correct as you imagine them to be.

A coward and a liar. Seriously, fuck off. You are a lying little piece of shit.

So sorry for your inability to counter an argument.  I really really hope this is an internet meme of yours and not how you function in real life circumstances.

Seriously.

You are the first person on Languish I actually think is an actual piece of shit human being. Lying about people when you know you are lying about them is a shitty, douchebag thing to do, and pretending Languish isn't "real life" so that makes it ok just makes you even more of a coward. You don't get a pass because it's "just the internet". So yeah, CC, fuck off. Really. I could not care less how you try to pretend this is me just oh so incapable of responding to YOUR argument. You aren't nearly as smart as you think, and plenty of others have made a hell of a lot better arguments than you have, and didn't need to impugn anyones motives in the process.

So again. Go fuck yourself, you dishonest, weaselly little piece of offal. You will never get another response from me beyond this content, right here.

Tell me Berkut, does this approach ever work well for you?

One might ask you the same, you dishonest little shit. Do you find lying about other people an effective way to make your point? Has it ever? Is the fact that you are one of the least respected people on the forum made a dent in your insistence on being such a lying little turd?

But yes, so far, in 100% of the cases, it has worked great for me. Thanks for asking.

typically when I say something a person disagrees with, they explain why they disagree with me.  I have not been called names since elementary school.  Probably says something about the choice of company I keep, and the lack of ability on this platform to only see the posts from the people I value interacting with.

What's an offal?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 08, 2021, 07:38:32 PM
Entrails. Guts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 08, 2021, 08:05:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 08, 2021, 07:38:32 PM
Entrails. Guts.

Why entrails or guts? Why not shit?

Seems a strange choice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 08, 2021, 08:09:43 PM
Offal is edible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 08, 2021, 08:35:44 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 08, 2021, 08:05:21 PM
Why entrails or guts? Why not shit?

Seems a strange choice.

Some people really don't like eating liver or other organ meats.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 08, 2021, 08:50:54 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 08, 2021, 08:35:44 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 08, 2021, 08:05:21 PM
Why entrails or guts? Why not shit?

Seems a strange choice.

Some people really don't like eating liver or other organ meats.

Still doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 09, 2021, 06:59:46 AM
Liver is lovely food. :mmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on February 09, 2021, 07:13:26 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 08, 2021, 08:50:54 PM

Still doesn't make sense.

This thread isn't supposed to make sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 09, 2021, 08:38:09 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 08, 2021, 08:05:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 08, 2021, 07:38:32 PM
Entrails. Guts.

Why entrails or guts? Why not shit?

Seems a strange choice.


Offal sometimes has shit in it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 10, 2021, 06:30:33 AM
QuoteNow that the FBI has announced publicly that the "insurgency" at the U.S. Capitol was a pre-planned attack, ALL MEMBERS of CONGRESS,(all Democrats & some Republicans), that took part In that sham of an impeachment  owe President Trump & his family, 75 million Patriotic supporters and really all of America a MASSIVE APOLOGY!

All of the millions of vengeful, disgusting members of the Media and Social Media who took their lead from Nancy Pelosi and Congressional Democrats and stood before the world and LIED about the events of that day should be really ashamed!

It is now known that the Capitol Police had prior knowledge of this planned attack, provided to them by the FBI in the days leading up to the Jan.6 event. Capitol Police then appropriately notified the Congressional Sgt-at-Arms, (who reports directly to Pelosi), and at that time Capitol Police also requested NG presence. In fact, CP asked Pelosi and Mayor Bowser numerous times to call up NG for support and were turned down. Why? Reportedly, Pelosi, the DC Mayor, Schumer, and others thought the "OPTICS WOULD BE BAD"????

Pelosi and others apparently knew in advance of the "attack" and It appears that this "insurgence" and the tragic events that followed were used by Pelosi & others as just one more last-ditch attempt by DC Democrats to damage President Trump's name & legacy!

We now know the reason Pelosi rushed forward with that phony impeachment before the facts had time to come out!

The members of Congress who stood and said the vilest things imaginable, in a public hearing, about our President showed the world just what despicable human beings some Americans can be. It was irresponsible of them to rush to judgment based on events that apparently were engineered/used by Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats in Congress in an attempt to ruin an honest, decent American's life. I hope they pay a serious price, including removal from office. Democrats in America have become very dangerous people and the hate they harbor for those they consider to be "weak" is like nothing I've ever seen before. Their lust for power is just beyond comprehension.

Fortunately for Americans, though, the Democrats' underhanded tactics have once again been unable to get the better of Donald J. Trump. Again, in this the final week of his successful term, he comes out the winner yet again!

For more than four years, Pelosi, Schumer, and the DC Democrats have tried time and time again to "get" Donald Trump and bring him down. He has been forced to endure Investigations that went on for months & months, (costing untold millions in taxpayer dollars), two impeachments based on fabricated "evidence" along with unrelenting lies and other "charges", yet he maintains his dignity, holds his head up high, and continues to go out every day and do the job he was elected to do. There has never been a finer President than Donald J. Trump. Thank you, Sir, for restoring Greatness to America!💕

~ Candace Owens
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 10, 2021, 09:12:42 AM
"Our president" is Joe Biden. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 10, 2021, 09:19:37 AM
--Things nobody would have predicted in 2007.

Though I guess not as outlandish as the last guy.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 10, 2021, 04:36:11 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/147435751_3907621932594059_5365243422976625490_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=wUQTmwe3Wf8AX8TT4Qt&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=59d22024211b7ffc318799d564bd7595&oe=604B6B92)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 10, 2021, 05:38:07 PM
The workers are also getting the checks...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 10, 2021, 05:59:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 10, 2021, 05:38:07 PM
The workers are also getting the checks...

Yes but the main point is to be mean to others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 10, 2021, 08:51:39 PM
Giving checks to people who can't pay their bills because they can't work due to Covid is sorta the whole point of the exercise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 10, 2021, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2021, 08:51:39 PM
Giving checks to people who can't pay their bills because they can't work due to Covid is sorta the whole point of the exercise.

This
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 10, 2021, 09:16:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 10, 2021, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2021, 08:51:39 PM
Giving checks to people who can't pay their bills because they can't work due to Covid is sorta the whole point of the exercise.

This
Socialistleftism.  They are out of work because they are too communist to work like true patriotic non-leftist Americans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 11, 2021, 02:05:13 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 10, 2021, 09:16:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 10, 2021, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2021, 08:51:39 PM
Giving checks to people who can't pay their bills because they can't work due to Covid is sorta the whole point of the exercise.

This
Socialistleftism.  They are out of work because they are too communist to work like true patriotic non-leftist Americans.

Well, they also re-shared this classic, so ...

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/148482981_10222004906289356_7707702551318871390_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=adAapMrrR1YAX_hyuL5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=aa80adeaa3c0ebbbee41dee8895a32ab&oe=60490890)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 11, 2021, 02:08:17 AM
Incidentally they also shared the post that was the final straw for Gina Carano at Disney+.

Quote(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/50962001_2039366296143790_8182753232569761792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=gjuvk9euS8UAX_Fv6ot&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&tp=6&oh=6510f3bf6a5fec1f47a3830e1f9c087c&oe=6049A290)

Bill Carroll
January 30, 2019  ·   ·
Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors...even by children.  :(
"Because history is edited, most people today don't realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 11, 2021, 03:50:38 AM
Wow. I was with it until the last line.
Yup.
Hating people for being nazis is totally the same as nazis picking on Jews. :tinfoil:

And gosh wouldn't it be great if you needed a joh you could just get one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 11, 2021, 01:00:07 PM
So kristallnacht was really just neighbours spontaneously hating their long time Jewish neighbours.

Now that is some serious revisionist bullshit.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 11, 2021, 01:15:40 PM
You have to be pretty damn clueless to post that while Trump supporters continue to claim that people they disagree with are child-molesting cannibals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 11, 2021, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and that photo isn't in Germany it's from Lviv during the invasion.  It's DG's hometown.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 11, 2021, 01:29:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 11, 2021, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and that photo isn't in Germany it's from Lviv during the invasion.  It's DG's hometown.
:mad: We're famous for other things as well, like air show disasters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 11, 2021, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 11, 2021, 01:29:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 11, 2021, 01:20:37 PM
Oh, and that photo isn't in Germany it's from Lviv during the invasion.  It's DG's hometown.
:mad: We're famous for other things as well, like air show disasters.

wow, or should I say, lwow
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on February 11, 2021, 05:11:04 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 11, 2021, 02:08:17 AM
Incidentally they also shared the post that was the final straw for Gina Carano at Disney+.

Quote(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/50962001_2039366296143790_8182753232569761792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=gjuvk9euS8UAX_Fv6ot&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&tp=6&oh=6510f3bf6a5fec1f47a3830e1f9c087c&oe=6049A290)

Bill Carroll
January 30, 2019  ·   ·
Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors...even by children.  :(
"Because history is edited, most people today don't realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?"

She sucked as an actress anyway. Get someone better Disney.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 11, 2021, 09:12:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 11, 2021, 01:15:40 PM
You have to be pretty damn clueless
And that is a surprise that Trumpists would post that shit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 11, 2021, 09:13:44 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 11, 2021, 05:11:04 PM
She sucked as an actress anyway. Get someone better Disney.

I guess I'm really the only one here who liked her :)

Usually, soldiers are shaped like ultra skinny top models, for once, there was a woman looking the part. Oh well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 12, 2021, 12:18:16 AM
I thought Carano was Trumpy.  Why was she comparing Trump to the Nazis?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 12, 2021, 03:00:11 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/NFpDHQKp/th.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 12, 2021, 09:08:56 AM
"Watch the news" and "Do your research" are synonomous with reading non-credited memes on social media as a form of undeniable fact.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 12, 2021, 10:11:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 12, 2021, 03:00:11 AM
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What is hilarious is that this us so obviously written by someone who does not speak English as their first language. I mean, I expect Trump supporters to be at best semi-literate, but the pattern of mistakes here make it sound almost as if someone is trying to imitate a Russian troll. 😄

Read it with a Boris Badenof accent ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 12, 2021, 10:14:07 AM
You are supposed to say it in broken English.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 12, 2021, 10:19:29 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 12, 2021, 10:11:30 AMWhat is hilarious is that this us so obviously written by someone who does not speak English as their first language. I mean, I expect Trump supporters to be at best semi-literate, but the pattern of mistakes here make it sound almost as if someone is trying to imitate a Russian troll. 😄

Read it with a Boris Badenof accent ...

Well, my sister was born in Germany (she has been naturalized for many years, though). :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 13, 2021, 03:48:54 PM
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Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2021, 03:56:10 PM
  :lmfao:

They had to give up their Confederate flags too, and were banned by Twitter. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 13, 2021, 04:49:37 PM
Interesting how they still go on with the nazis and gun control thing despite the nazis relaxing gun control laws.
The lesser Syt is really pushing the whole nazi thing heavily of late....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 13, 2021, 05:35:36 PM
I'm fairly certain the Nazis had laws against Jews owning guns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 13, 2021, 07:16:32 PM
The Nazi comparisons really need to stop.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on February 13, 2021, 07:28:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2021, 07:16:32 PM
The Nazi comparisons really need to stop.

Nazi  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 14, 2021, 02:45:14 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 13, 2021, 05:35:36 PM
I'm fairly certain the Nazis had laws against Jews owning guns.
And doing much of anything. Their not being allowed weapons was pretty incidental.
In terms of gun control the nazis broadly slackened restrictions for those they considered German.
It's fairly standard in the world today that getting a firearms license is a lot harder as a foreigner.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2021, 06:09:35 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/6q91bbQp/cf.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hvpZk8Jb/pdc.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2021, 12:28:15 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 14, 2021, 02:45:14 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 13, 2021, 05:35:36 PM
I'm fairly certain the Nazis had laws against Jews owning guns.
And doing much of anything. Their not being allowed weapons was pretty incidental.
In terms of gun control the nazis broadly slackened restrictions for those they considered German.
It's fairly standard in the world today that getting a firearms license is a lot harder as a foreigner.

The point of those comparisons isn't that Nazis hate guns. It's that taking away people's guns opens them up for further abuse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 12:37:44 PM
QuoteFew German citizens owned, or were entitled to own firearms in Germany in the early 1930s,[2] the Weimar Republic having strict gun control laws.[8] When the Nazi party gained power, some aspects of gun regulation were loosened, such as allowing firearm ownership for Nazi party members and the military.[5]:672 The laws were tightened in other ways. Nazi laws systematically disarmed "unreliable" persons, especially Jews, but relaxed restrictions for so-called "ordinary" German citizens.[5]:670,676 The policies were later expanded to include the confiscation of arms in occupied countries.[9]:533,536

Wiki.

Makes more sense than the Jews had their guns taken away thesis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 14, 2021, 01:28:42 PM
The most nonsense is the idea that the average citizen, if provided access to guns, would have fought off the Nazi state (or indeed attempted to).

The reality is that if the state decided to crush you, there was little you could do about it. Unless you were (a) organized already, (b) in a place where the landscape allowed for guerrilla warfare, and (c) had the backing of friendly states. Most importantly, (d) already know that there was no point in acquiescence and having an ideology that allowed for all of your family, friends etc. to face death.

Only when these factors were present, was any real resistance made to the Nazi state, even in places were guns were plentiful (such as nations overrun by the Nazis, whose defeated armed forces scattered into the surrounding population).

Your average shopkeeper from Munich was no more able to resist the Nazis with his or her handgun, than fly to the Moon. Attempting to do so would just be suicide with extra steps, involving your family etc. Of course, we know with hindsight that in the case of the Jews, the families would die anyway, but the Nazis were very good at keeping their victim's hopes alive that if you just acquiesced, you or your family would be spared ...

Proof: the Nazis disposed of plenty of internal enemies who definitely were armed - for example, after the bomb attack on Hitler, they rounded up thousands of people, many in the armed forces, who of course were armed. They went more or less quietly ... few attempted armed resistance, even though they must have known their chances were not good.

Having guns (and indeed military experience) did not save them; it was unlikely to save the average Jew, who was far less capable of armed resistance than (say) a professional soldier.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 14, 2021, 01:30:33 PM
The Nazi posts from the nut brigade are about dogwhistling that they like Nazis. There is no deeper meaning to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 14, 2021, 01:57:41 PM
Most of the victims of the holocaust were not German Jews.  Most were Polish or Soviet.  They were protected by guns.  The Germans simply rolled over the guys with the guns and killed the Jews anyway.

We have plenty of evidence that citizens of the US would not be able to resist any more than the Jews of Germany because we set our own concentration camps.  Pretty much every person of Japanese decent in the Continental United States was thrown into a concentration camp.  These people had access to guns, there was no law saying that people of Japanese decent couldn't own guns and the people who were thrown into the concentration camps had no idea what would happen to them.  And yet, they walked into the camps all the same.  I told this to one of those gun rights guys and he was pretty much flabbergasted.

There is one other factor that ties into the concentration camps stuff: The gun-rights guys are most likely the people who a persecuted minority would be struggling against. If the government began going after Muslims, or immigrants, or blacks would the guns-rights people be the ones standing up and saying that these people need to protect themselves from a tyrannical government?  I seriously doubt it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 14, 2021, 07:18:20 PM
The only way having a gun will help you protect your family against a totalitarian regime is if you use it to shoot yourself.  Maybe they'll forget about your family when they need to fill the quota, if you didn't stick around to be convicted.  Maybe...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 07:28:00 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 14, 2021, 07:18:20 PM
The only way having a gun will help you protect your family against a totalitarian regime is if you use it to shoot yourself.  Maybe they'll forget about your family when they need to fill the quota, if you didn't stick around to be convicted.  Maybe...

This is ridiculous.  Hundreds of wars of independence have been fought with guns.  Regimes have been overthrown with guns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 14, 2021, 07:38:35 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 07:28:00 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 14, 2021, 07:18:20 PM
The only way having a gun will help you protect your family against a totalitarian regime is if you use it to shoot yourself.  Maybe they'll forget about your family when they need to fill the quota, if you didn't stick around to be convicted.  Maybe...

This is ridiculous.  Hundreds of wars of independence have been fought with guns.  Regimes have been overthrown with guns.
Hundreds of wars of independence have been fought with people wearing pants.  That doesn't mean that pants are the difference between a regime surviving and crumbling.

As Malthus explained, in order to successfully overthrow a government, you need a lot of things to come together.  If you have those other things, guns will find their way to the combatants.  Plenty of successful overthrows happened in places where almost no one started out being armed.  If you don't have those other things, guns aren't going to make an iota of difference.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 07:44:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 14, 2021, 07:38:35 PM
Hundreds of wars of independence have been fought with people wearing pants.  That doesn't mean that pants are the difference between a regime surviving and crumbling.

This is not the statement I disagreed with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 14, 2021, 07:46:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 07:44:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 14, 2021, 07:38:35 PM
Hundreds of wars of independence have been fought with people wearing pants.  That doesn't mean that pants are the difference between a regime surviving and crumbling.

This is not the statement I disagreed with.
I know that.  That statement didn't even exist until after I replied to you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 07:48:34 PM
I'm out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 14, 2021, 07:54:52 PM
Before you leave, would you mind elaborating what it is that you disagreed with?  Maybe a couple of short sentence don't always do justice to the point you're trying to make.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2021, 07:57:52 PM
QuoteThe only way having a gun will help you protect your family against a totalitarian regime is if you use it to shoot yourself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 14, 2021, 08:03:37 PM
Well, obviously, if you're already in an open rebellion against a totalitarian regime, you're better off holding a gun rather than a dick in your hand.  I thought it was clear from the context that I wasn't making a point that a gun was useless to a Banderovite in 1946.  I was making a point that a gun was useless to a military officer in 1937.  There was only one way that his gun would get him out of an execution.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2021, 08:08:08 PM
Shoot the guards at the border crossing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 14, 2021, 11:46:36 PM
The notion in contention is that if the Germans had gun laws like those of modern America, the Jews could have armed themselves, and so have avoided being rounded up by the Nazis.

Never mind that most of the Jews who died were Eastern European, and think only of the German Jews.

The answer to that notion is that even if the German Jews were able to buy guns at the store, that would not have helped them much, because merely owning guns is no protection against the apparatus of a malevolent modern state. Other groups of Germans who were in fact armed with guns fell victim to the Nazis nonetheless and their guns did not help them - namely, the suspects from the armed forces rounded up and murdered after the failed bombing attempt on Hitler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 15, 2021, 03:42:47 AM
There are plenty of valid reasons for people to have guns.
Protection (from humans) is not one of them. This is a laughably idiotic argument. Especially when taken to the protection from the government lengths of the crazies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 15, 2021, 09:53:08 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 15, 2021, 03:42:47 AM
There are plenty of valid reasons for people to have guns.
Protection (from humans) is not one of them. This is a laughably idiotic argument. Especially when taken to the protection from the government lengths of the crazies.

I think the problem is that, in the US, the reasoning behind having an absolute right to guns is an section of their constitution concerning raising a militia — and their founding mythology has a lot to say about the value of resistance to the British by the average yeoman-farmer types.

In this way, the right to own guns has an expressly militant justification - it is required to repel tyranny, presumably by use of a citizen's militia. Thus, it is necessary to believe that owning guns can not only be valuable in repelling tyranny, but an absolute necessity. If this is not true, the basis of the right is undermined - that part of the constitution could appear as nothing more than an archaic survival from the 18th century, no doubt useful at the time but not so much now. 

So it is necessary to believe things like 'if only the Jews had access to guns, they would have been okay'. Usually by way of saying 'remove or impede our access to guns, and we could end up just like them'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 10:02:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 15, 2021, 03:42:47 AM
There are plenty of valid reasons for people to have guns.
Protection (from humans) is not one of them. This is a laughably idiotic argument. Especially when taken to the protection from the government lengths of the crazies.

What you are doing here is an assertion of faith, not making an argument.

It's transparently obvious guns can serve as protection against humans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 15, 2021, 10:16:38 AM
Militias were local and state institutions, not confessional ones.  It is safe to say that late 18th century Americans would have been completely baffled by the notion of a Jewish militia.

The Constitution was enacted at a time where there was still lively debate over whether the state militias or Washington's regulars made the greater contribution to the struggle for independence.  Whatever the historical or tactical merits of the case, the militia supporters won the political argument.  America would not have a regular standing army but would rely on militias for defense.  The 2nd amendment reflects that.

Thus, the purpose of the militia (and thus the 2nd amendment) was not to defend against the tyranny of the domestic government. Quite the opposite - the purpose was to secure the efficacy of state militias, whose expected job including suppressing domestic insurrections.  The immediate historical background was Shay's rebellion, which broke out while the Constitution was being drafted and was suppressed by the state militia.

Not long after the Constitution was enacted, the "whiskey" rebellion broke out in Appalachia - i.e. an armed tax protest.  Again the militia was called out - not to vindicate or defend the rights of the tax resisters against federal tyranny but for the very opposite purpose - to suppress the insurrection.

The contemporary NRA fantasy that the 2nd amendment was designed to encourage ordinary citizens to band together to resist domestic tyranny by force gets it exactly backwards.  It was designed to give the state and federal governments an effective tool for suppressing such demonstrations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 15, 2021, 10:27:52 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 10:02:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 15, 2021, 03:42:47 AM
There are plenty of valid reasons for people to have guns.
Protection (from humans) is not one of them. This is a laughably idiotic argument. Especially when taken to the protection from the government lengths of the crazies.

What you are doing here is an assertion of faith, not making an argument.

It's transparently obvious guns can serve as protection against humans.
Not really. Its pretty well known that guns are more dangerous to their owners and rarely come into play for their stated purpose e.g.
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/guns-crime/reports/2017/10/05/440373/myth-vs-fact-debunking-gun-lobbys-favorite-talking-points/

When you think about it logically it makes sense why not, this comedian sums it up well.
https://youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0?t=96

And thats before even considering the weaker controls against you getting a gun are, the weaker controls against criminals getting them are.

As said. Plenty of valid reasons. There's vast wilderness in North America. With wolves and bears about guns can become very necessary. For farmers less dangerous wild animals are a issue. Some people just like shooting shit. But protection is bollocks and all respect is instantly lost for someone pushing that argument with a straight face.


QuoteI think the problem is that, in the US, the reasoning behind having an absolute right to guns is an section of their constitution concerning raising a militia — and their founding mythology has a lot to say about the value of resistance to the British by the average yeoman-farmer types.

In this way, the right to own guns has an expressly militant justification - it is required to repel tyranny, presumably by use of a citizen's militia. Thus, it is necessary to believe that owning guns can not only be valuable in repelling tyranny, but an absolute necessity. If this is not true, the basis of the right is undermined - that part of the constitution could appear as nothing more than an archaic survival from the 18th century, no doubt useful at the time but not so much now.

So it is necessary to believe things like 'if only the Jews had access to guns, they would have been okay'. Usually by way of saying 'remove or impede our access to guns, and we could end up just like them'.
In Switzerland its fairly similar. There's this idea of the citizen militas being responsible for the country's freedom, everyone in the land needing to be trained and ready to go to the mountains the minute the French return to form...
But they recognise keeping the milita's weapons in the municipal arsenal works fine for this.
You never hear anyone making an argument that guns are needed for protection. If you apply for a gun license in Switzerland, or indeed most countries in the world, and when asked your reason you say "Protection" thats an instant fail.
The Swiss interpret their citizen militia past in a rather different way as being about community, national identity, shared responsibility between the diverse peoples of the country, etc....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 15, 2021, 10:52:48 AM
Al Capone had a gun.  It didn't save him from incarceration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 15, 2021, 10:56:49 AM
Hitler had a gun. It saved him from the gallows.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 15, 2021, 10:27:52 AM
Not really. Its pretty well known that guns are more dangerous to their owners and rarely come into play for their stated purpose e.g.
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/guns-crime/reports/2017/10/05/440373/myth-vs-fact-debunking-gun-lobbys-favorite-talking-points/

When you think about it logically it makes sense why not, this comedian sums it up well.
https://youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0?t=96

And thats before even considering the weaker controls against you getting a gun are, the weaker controls against criminals getting them are.

As said. Plenty of valid reasons. There's vast wilderness in North America. With wolves and bears about guns can become very necessary. For farmers less dangerous wild animals are a issue. Some people just like shooting shit. But protection is bollocks and all respect is instantly lost for someone pushing that argument with a straight face.

Yes really.  There are plenty of documented cases of store workers blowing away would be robbers.  There are plenty of cases of people using guns to defend themselves in other situations.  To disagree with the statement that guns can protect people means you have to pretend all those cases don't exist.  Your original statement that I objected to was also so broad that it included the protection that an armed military provides.

Your comedian is memifying the debate.  He's satirizing gun owners so that an audience that already agrees with him can feel superior.  That's the Bill Maher schtick.

Did you consider that the rugged ranchers who have a legitimate need to shoot wolves have the exact same risk of shooting themselves as the ridiculous suburban cowboy who claims his gun is for home defense?

To be clear, I'm all for gun control.  I wish the 2nd Amendment had never been written.  I would prefer to live in a United States with European style gun laws.  But that doesn't make this memification any less trivial.  Punch lines are not debate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 15, 2021, 11:07:04 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 11:04:18 AM
Punch lines are not debate.

OK boomer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 15, 2021, 11:12:56 AM
QuoteYes really.  There are plenty of documented cases of store workers blowing away would be robbers.  There are plenty of cases of people using guns to defend themselves in other situations.  To disagree with the statement that guns can protect people means you have to pretend all those cases don't exist.  Your original statement that I objected to was also so broad that it included the protection that an armed military provides.

Your comedian is memifying the debate.  He's satirizing gun owners so that an audience that already agrees with him can feel superior.  That's the Bill Maher schtick.

Did you consider that the rugged ranchers who have a legitimate need to shoot wolves have the exact same risk of shooting themselves as the ridiculous suburban cowboy who claims his gun is for home defense?

To be clear, I'm all for gun control.  I wish the 2nd Amendment had never been written.  I would prefer to live in a United States with European style gun laws.  But that doesn't make this memification any less trivial.  Punch lines are not debate.
Sure, the comedian is mocking the cliched American view on guns, he's a comedian not someone making a political argument. But his points are valid. If you're lying naked in bed and someone breaks through the window.... If you're a responsible gun owner then that gun isn't going to do you much good.

The number of shop keepers successfully defending their shop in a gun battle are massively outnumbered by the amount who are robbed by armed crooks. Look at the first link and the data points in there.
Overall its the argument for why civilization is important. Taking away people's right to do things no decent person would want to do (rape and pillage and murder and all that) being a much smaller loss than the gain from the significantly reduced risk of being a victim.

And I don't agree that the chances of a suburban amateur shooting himself are the same as an experienced rancher. Would be curious for numbers there though it is something that would need to control for a lot of factors. It strikes me that handling guns is something one can become better at with experience and drastically reduce your risk of misadventure.

Its all about averages and percentage chances. A few cases don't make a standard rule and the nirvana fallacy can get in the sea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 15, 2021, 11:15:31 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 15, 2021, 10:27:52 AM
Not really. Its pretty well known that guns are more dangerous to their owners and rarely come into play for their stated purpose e.g.
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/guns-crime/reports/2017/10/05/440373/myth-vs-fact-debunking-gun-lobbys-favorite-talking-points/

When you think about it logically it makes sense why not, this comedian sums it up well.
https://youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0?t=96

And thats before even considering the weaker controls against you getting a gun are, the weaker controls against criminals getting them are.

As said. Plenty of valid reasons. There's vast wilderness in North America. With wolves and bears about guns can become very necessary. For farmers less dangerous wild animals are a issue. Some people just like shooting shit. But protection is bollocks and all respect is instantly lost for someone pushing that argument with a straight face.

Yes really.  There are plenty of documented cases of store workers blowing away would be robbers.  There are plenty of cases of people using guns to defend themselves in other situations.  To disagree with the statement that guns can protect people means you have to pretend all those cases don't exist.  Your original statement that I objected to was also so broad that it included the protection that an armed military provides.

Your comedian is memifying the debate.  He's satirizing gun owners so that an audience that already agrees with him can feel superior.  That's the Bill Maher schtick.

Did you consider that the rugged ranchers who have a legitimate need to shoot wolves have the exact same risk of shooting themselves as the ridiculous suburban cowboy who claims his gun is for home defense?

To be clear, I'm all for gun control.  I wish the 2nd Amendment had never been written.  I would prefer to live in a United States with European style gun laws.  But that doesn't make this memification any less trivial.  Punch lines are not debate.

A real answer would involve doing risk/benefit analyses in various situations - deaths or injuries prevented by gun ownership via self-defence (based on some reasonable estimate, as it is difficult to measure things that did not happen) versus deaths or injuries caused by gun ownership, through accident, suicide and assault.

I suspect that such a risk/benefit analysis would indeed favour gun control, because while legitimate instances of self-defence using guns do happen, they are uncommon.

A more difficult factor to account for is whether some allowance should be made for deaths or injuries prevented by fear on the part of criminals that others may own guns. For example, burglars may be deterred from robbing homes, if homeowners are known to be potential gun owners. Not sure how you would account for that.

There is also the 'if guns weren't available, criminals may have done the crime anyway, using some other means'. I suppose, though the same could be said on the other side of the equation - if guns were not available, the legitimate self-defenders may have defended themselves using other means.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 15, 2021, 11:19:48 AM
It is reductionist to simplistically assert as transparently obvious that guns can offer protection to the exclusion of all the data that demonstrates the harm of wide access to guns.

Yi's arguments can only exist if his audience is unaware of the world outside the US.   

QuoteThe United States has an enormous firearm problem compared with other high-income countries. Americans are 10 times more likely to die as a result of a firearm compared with residents of these other high-income countries. In the United States, the firearm homicide rate is 25 times higher, the firearm suicide rate is 8 times higher, and the unintentional gun death rate is more than 6 times higher. Of all firearm deaths in all these countries, more than 80% occur in the United States.

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(15)01030-X/pdf
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 11:27:08 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 15, 2021, 11:15:31 AM
A real answer would involve doing risk/benefit analyses in various situations - deaths or injuries prevented by gun ownership via self-defence (based on some reasonable estimate, as it is difficult to measure things that did not happen) versus deaths or injuries caused by gun ownership, through accident, suicide and assault.

I suspect that such a risk/benefit analysis would indeed favour gun control, because while legitimate instances of self-defence using guns do happen, they are uncommon.

A more difficult factor to account for is whether some allowance should be made for deaths or injuries prevented by fear on the part of criminals that others may own guns. For example, burglars may be deterred from robbing homes, if homeowners are known to be potential gun owners. Not sure how you would account for that.

There is also the 'if guns weren't available, criminals may have done the crime anyway, using some other means'. I suppose, though the same could be said on the other side of the equation - if guns were not available, the legitimate self-defenders may have defended themselves using other means.

I'm aware of all this.  I agree with your conclusions.

But that doesn't mean that Squeeze's statment that "Protection (from humans)...is a laughably idiotic argument" is true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 11:27:08 AM
But that doesn't mean that Squeeze's statment that "Protection (from humans)...is a laughably idiotic argument" is true.
I guess the way he should've stated it is that the idea that the net effect of gun ownership protects the gun owners is a laughably idiotic argument.  Technically, guns saving one life at the expense of taking 1000 other lives unnecessarily would still invalidate his original argument, though "technically" is the key word here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 15, 2021, 11:34:25 AM
How do you feel like big important man without gun? Feelings matter too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 15, 2021, 11:36:43 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 15, 2021, 11:34:25 AM
How do you feel like big important man without gun? Feelings matter too.
big and or fast cars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on February 15, 2021, 11:46:59 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 15, 2021, 11:34:25 AM
How do you feel like big important man without gun? Feelings matter too.

We are not fortune enough to have horned helmets and bearded axes.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 11:53:56 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 11:32:30 AM
I guess the way he should've stated it is that the idea that the net effect of gun ownership protects the gun owners is a laughably idiotic argument.  Technically, guns saving one life at the expense of taking 1000 other lives unnecessarily would still invalidate his original argument, though "technically" is the key word here.

A perfectly defensible way to make the point is that any increase in personal security derived by the individual gun owner is outweighed by the costs imposed on society.

As an aside, suicide by gun is a weak argument for gun control in this age of increasing legalization of assisted dying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 15, 2021, 11:56:31 AM
It is a weak argument if you are a libertarian and don't understand the restrictions on assisted dying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on February 15, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 11:53:56 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 11:32:30 AM
I guess the way he should've stated it is that the idea that the net effect of gun ownership protects the gun owners is a laughably idiotic argument.  Technically, guns saving one life at the expense of taking 1000 other lives unnecessarily would still invalidate his original argument, though "technically" is the key word here.

A perfectly defensible way to make the point is that any increase in personal security derived by the individual gun owner is outweighed by the costs imposed on society.

As an aside, suicide by gun is a weak argument for gun control in this age of increasing legalization of assisted dying.

I get where you're coming from...but I doubt we'd be very sanguine about the idea of suicide pills being as easily available for sale as firearms are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 12:06:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 11:53:56 AM
As an aside, suicide by gun is a weak argument for gun control in this age of increasing legalization of assisted dying.
I don't think it's a weak argument if one understands how suicide works.  You're going to need more than a spur of the moment to go through with assisted suicide.  Having a gun lets you finish the job effectively before you have time to reevaluate your decision.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 12:10:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 11:53:56 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 11:32:30 AM
I guess the way he should've stated it is that the idea that the net effect of gun ownership protects the gun owners is a laughably idiotic argument.  Technically, guns saving one life at the expense of taking 1000 other lives unnecessarily would still invalidate his original argument, though "technically" is the key word here.

A perfectly defensible way to make the point is that any increase in personal security derived by the individual gun owner is outweighed by the costs imposed on society.

This is another example of how the left sabotages their own arguments. They get so wokeraged that they take basically good ideas and radicalize their message, which just lets the other side trivially point out that the left is full of shit.

Quote
As an aside, suicide by gun is a weak argument for gun control in this age of increasing legalization of assisted dying.

....and now you make the exact same mistake. Those two things have nothing to do with one another. Comparing someone shooting themselves with a gun, which happens like 25,000 times a year in the US, with "increasing legalization of assisted dying" which happens....what, less then 100 times a year in the US?

WTF man. Some teen getting dumped and shooting themselves with dads gun in a moment of despair is not even remotely comparable, in any fucking way, with some cancer patient, after consultation with their doctors, deciding to end their suffering in a controlled manner.

So no, the use of guns in suicides is a damn strong argument for gun control, and "increasing" legalization of assisted dying has absolutely no bearing on it's strength.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 15, 2021, 12:19:12 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 12:10:45 PM
This is another example of how the left sabotages their own arguments. They get so wokeraged that they take basically good ideas and radicalize their message, which just lets the other side trivially point out that the left is full of shit.

OK, Yi's argument was silly and reductionist.  But why tar the left with what he said?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 12:22:58 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 12:10:45 PM
So no, the use of guns in suicides is a damn strong argument for gun control, and "increasing" legalization of assisted dying has absolutely no bearing on it's strength.

It does have bearing.  A generation ago assisted dying was anathema, informed, I would argue, in great part by the church's prohibition against suicide.  That attitude has evolved, obviously.  It is not unreasonable to assume that attitudes about suicide in general will similarly evolve.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 12:49:22 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 12:22:58 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 12:10:45 PM
So no, the use of guns in suicides is a damn strong argument for gun control, and "increasing" legalization of assisted dying has absolutely no bearing on it's strength.

It does have bearing.  A generation ago assisted dying was anathema, informed, I would argue, in great part by the church's prohibition against suicide.  That attitude has evolved, obviously.  It is not unreasonable to assume that attitudes about suicide in general will similarly evolve.
The suicide-based arguments for gun control have nothing to do with suicide being a sin.  It has everything to do with the fact that additional suicides that come with gun ownership cost people their lives.  It makes an often temporary illness fatal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 12:22:58 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 12:10:45 PM
So no, the use of guns in suicides is a damn strong argument for gun control, and "increasing" legalization of assisted dying has absolutely no bearing on it's strength.

It does have bearing.  A generation ago assisted dying was anathema, informed, I would argue, in great part by the church's prohibition against suicide.  That attitude has evolved, obviously.  It is not unreasonable to assume that attitudes about suicide in general will similarly evolve.

You can assume whatever you like. But attitudes about suicide evolving theoretically in the future have nothing to do with current concerns over 25,000 people a year killing themselves with guns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 12:49:22 PM
The suicide-based arguments for gun control have nothing to do with suicide being a sin.  It has everything to do with the fact that additional suicides that come with gun ownership cost people their lives.  It makes an often temporary illness fatal.

Except people who argue for gun control don't limit their argument only to those who would theoretically regret their choice.

Now it's ultimately an untestable proposition because there's no ironclad way of determining why people hold the opinions they do.  Although thinking out loud it might be interesting to examine the realtionship between a country's dominant religion, the pronouncements of that dominant religion about suicide, and general opinions. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 01:13:19 PM
Arguing that concerns about suicide by guns are not valid because legal assisted suicide exists is like arguing that concerns about restricting people to driving the speed limit are invalid because they drive way faster during Formula 1 races.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 15, 2021, 01:13:33 PM
Tyr's absolutist statement (and CC's ideologically-driven blindness to its absoluteness) aside - why does anyone even try to argue with them? -  it's pretty clear that everyone here is agreeing while picking nits about differences.

I think that it is entirely possible to do a cost-benefit analysis in terms of lives lost with various levels of access to firearms.  And I think it is pretty clear that the loss of life will be lowest in the scenarios with the least access.

That misses the fact that the gun debate isn't about cost-benefit.  It is about paranoids who sincerely believe that, without access to guns, they will be unable to defend themselves and "the American Way of Life" from socialists, foreigners, minorities, and other such unAmerican types.  They saw what happened in South Africa to their counterparts and want to be able to use force to stop that in the US.

The US gun fetish isn't about guns.  It's about the power to resist history through violence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 01:20:22 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 01:13:19 PM
Arguing that concerns about suicide by guns are not valid because legal assisted suicide exists is like arguing that concerns about restricting people to driving the speed limit are invalid because they drive way faster during Formula 1 races.

You're right.  I overstated my case.

The gun control argument does work for those people who would theoretically regret their decision.  It does not work for those who wouldn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 01:20:22 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 01:13:19 PM
Arguing that concerns about suicide by guns are not valid because legal assisted suicide exists is like arguing that concerns about restricting people to driving the speed limit are invalid because they drive way faster during Formula 1 races.

You're right.  I overstated my case.

The gun control argument does work for those people who would theoretically regret their decision.  It does not work for those who wouldn't.

It works for anyone who would not be approved by a doctor for an assisted suicide, but who kill themselves by using a gun.

I suspect, that out of 25,000 people per year who kill themselves with a gun, a very, very, very, very tiny fraction of those could find a doctor to sign off on assisting them in that suicide. The number probably is not zero, but I am confident it is under 1%.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2021, 02:12:31 PM
A considerably larger fraction would find other methods, some of which pose a greater risk to bystanders.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 15, 2021, 02:35:55 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 15, 2021, 01:13:33 PM
Tyr's absolutist statement (and CC's ideologically-driven blindness to its absoluteness) aside - why does anyone even try to argue with them? -  it's pretty clear that everyone here is agreeing while picking nits about differences.

I think that it is entirely possible to do a cost-benefit analysis in terms of lives lost with various levels of access to firearms.  And I think it is pretty clear that the loss of life will be lowest in the scenarios with the least access.

That misses the fact that the gun debate isn't about cost-benefit.  It is about paranoids who sincerely believe that, without access to guns, they will be unable to defend themselves and "the American Way of Life" from socialists, foreigners, minorities, and other such unAmerican types.  They saw what happened in South Africa to their counterparts and want to be able to use force to stop that in the US.

The US gun fetish isn't about guns.  It's about the power to resist history through violence.

If ideological means confronting American gun nuttery, then that is me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 02:47:23 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2021, 02:12:31 PM
A considerably larger fraction would find other methods, some of which pose a greater risk to bystanders.
Larger fraction relative to those approved for assisted suicide, but still a minority.  Cold hard stats show that access to guns leads to suicides that would not have otherwise happened.  Maybe we can't tell about any particular suicide, but we can judge on the totality of suicides.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 15, 2021, 02:48:37 PM
The question of whether or not a gun can be used to protect yourself from another human is pretty obvious.  Yes, that is in fact physically possible.  Guns are made to kill people and killing a person will stop them from doing... well, anything.  We shifted over to talking about guns over the Holocaust thingy. The question there was: "Can a tiny minority spread out over an entire country successfully defend themselves from the government armed with private firearms?"   The answer is "no".


Out of curiosity does anyone know how much of a population can be realistically made into soldiers?  I couldn't be a soldier.  If you handed me a gun and you handed my cat a gun it's a toss up on which of us would be a better soldier.  Even with significant training I probably wouldn't be fit to be a soldier.  I'm nearly 40 and quite fat.  I can't run around like 18 year old even if a lost the weight.  I also have diabetes (well borderline diabetes) and I'm crazy as a loon.  I see these gun nuts talking about resisting the government (or UN or whatever), and these guys are in their fifties.  One of the insurrectionists at the Capital last month a photo of himself holding two AR-15s and was bragging how wanted to go after Antifa.  He was 50 and badly overweight and died from a heart attack in the capital.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2021, 02:57:06 PM
I remember reading somewhere that 20% of high school graduates in the US can pass the army's physical requirements.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 15, 2021, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 15, 2021, 02:48:37 PM
One of the insurrectionists at the Capital last month a photo of himself holding two AR-15s and was bragging how wanted to go after Antifa.  He was 50 and badly overweight and died from a heart attack in the capital.

To be fair the insurrectionists at the Capital last month are a data point that should be ignored by those making the "what can a minority of citizens with small arms do against the federal government? argument."

Obviously a small group succeeded in briefly taking the capital without firing a shot, despite assembling without subterfuge on the steps of the building and not "sending their best".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2021, 02:12:31 PM
A considerably larger fraction would find other methods, some of which pose a greater risk to bystanders.

So your argument against gun control is that by giving people and easy way to kill themselves, it protects the lives of others?

Right now, in the US, there are about 50k suicides per year. About half of those are with guns.

For the remanining half, can you give us some stats on how many of them result in siginficant harm to others in the process, such that we could figure out how saving 25,000 a year from killing themselves will just end up killing a bunch of other people.

I am really curious to know the answer to this one. Who knew that  letting people shoot themselves was such a key factor in reducing the deaths and injuries to countless innocents caught up in the wanton carnage of non-gun use suicide!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 15, 2021, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2021, 02:12:31 PM
A considerably larger fraction would find other methods, some of which pose a greater risk to bystanders.

So your argument against gun control is that by giving people and easy way to kill themselves, it protects the lives of others?

Right now, in the US, there are about 50k suicides per year. About half of those are with guns.

For the remanining half, can you give us some stats on how many of them result in siginficant harm to others in the process, such that we could figure out how saving 25,000 a year from killing themselves will just end up killing a bunch of other people.

I am really curious to know the answer to this one. Who knew that  letting people shoot themselves was such a key factor in reducing the deaths and injuries to countless innocents caught up in the wanton carnage of non-gun use suicide!

I'd think that stats would show that trying to commit suicide with a gun is one of the methods of suicide posing the greatest risk to others.

Suicide bombing is probably the most risky for others, and then maybe suicide by cop.  I'd think suicide by self-inflicted gunshot would follow close behind those two.  The "flinch factor" is quite high.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 04:03:12 PM
I would imagine suicide by jumping off a building has to be pretty dangerous to others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 15, 2021, 04:08:07 PM
It is reasonably common for people to attempt to shoot them selves in the head, and miss, or just end up disfiguring themselves without dying. I presume from last second flinching.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 15, 2021, 04:35:08 PM
More than 90% of suicides are done with firearms, ingesting poison or suffocation.  Jumping off buildings doesnt appear very common.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 15, 2021, 04:40:28 PM
Motor vehicles are rare causes (less than 5%) but presumably are very dangerous to others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 04:44:33 PM
What makes firearms cause unnecessary suicide deaths is that typically people that go through with the suicide attempt don't try it again, whether they succeed or fail.  With firearms they are very likely to succeed, however, even if they flinch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 15, 2021, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 04:44:33 PM
What makes firearms cause unnecessary suicide deaths is that typically people that go through with the suicide attempt don't try it again, whether they succeed or fail.  With firearms they are very likely to succeed, however, even if they flinch.

Yeah the fact that fire arms tend to mostly end up hurting or killing somebody in the family that owns them is why I don't have one. The tiny chance I would ever need to use it in self defense, and actually do so under that kind of stress, seems to be dwarfed by that likelihood.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2021, 02:12:31 PM
A considerably larger fraction would find other methods, some of which pose a greater risk to bystanders.

So your argument against gun control is that by giving people and easy way to kill themselves, it protects the lives of others?

Right now, in the US, there are about 50k suicides per year. About half of those are with guns.

For the remanining half, can you give us some stats on how many of them result in siginficant harm to others in the process, such that we could figure out how saving 25,000 a year from killing themselves will just end up killing a bunch of other people.

I am really curious to know the answer to this one. Who knew that  letting people shoot themselves was such a key factor in reducing the deaths and injuries to countless innocents caught up in the wanton carnage of non-gun use suicide!
Even if you remove all guns from the US, you would still have 50k suicides a year, it would just be with different means.
I don't think suicide is dependent on the tools at your disposal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 12:34:30 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 15, 2021, 04:44:33 PM
What makes firearms cause unnecessary suicide deaths is that typically people that go through with the suicide attempt don't try it again, whether they succeed or fail.  With firearms they are very likely to succeed, however, even if they flinch.
Depends on the arm, depends on how it's done.  With a handgun, it's unlikely they would miss.  With a hunting rifle, it happens. They get mutilated, they lose their nose and part of their face, put their family in distress and in stress there after because they want to finish the job, but they survive.

I do wonder, sometimes... well, always, since a long while, if we're really doing these people a favor by forcing them to live when they're ready to quit.  Would I want people around me trying to bring me back to life when I'm done for it all?  I'm not even sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 12:35:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 15, 2021, 04:35:08 PM
Jumping off buildings doesnt appear very common.
Hollywood has lied to us again!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 16, 2021, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 12:31:42 PM
Even if you remove all guns from the US, you would still have 50k suicides a year, it would just be with different means.
I don't think suicide is dependent on the tools at your disposal.

All the evidence says that this is incorrect.  90% of those who attempt suicide and fail do not go on to attempt it again (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/ (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/)).  So making the means of the first attempt as difficult as possible will decrease suicide deaths.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 16, 2021, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 12:31:42 PM
Even if you remove all guns from the US, you would still have 50k suicides a year, it would just be with different means.
I don't think suicide is dependent on the tools at your disposal.

All the evidence says that this is incorrect.  90% of those who attempt suicide and fail do not go on to attempt it again (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/ (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/)).  So making the means of the first attempt as difficult as possible will decrease suicide deaths.
Quebec&Canada have lots of gun controls, a general anti-gun culture compared to the US, and yet, we do have a lot of suicide.  Having more stringent gun control over the years have not affected significatively our rate of suicide.

I believe that when someone is decided to do it, really decided, they'll find a way to end this.

We agree that people with immense physical suffering can end their life prematurely.  I am unsure it is really wise to try to bring back from the brink someone who has decided to let it go.  I just don't know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 16, 2021, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 16, 2021, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 12:31:42 PM
Even if you remove all guns from the US, you would still have 50k suicides a year, it would just be with different means.
I don't think suicide is dependent on the tools at your disposal.

All the evidence says that this is incorrect.  90% of those who attempt suicide and fail do not go on to attempt it again (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/ (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/)).  So making the means of the first attempt as difficult as possible will decrease suicide deaths.
Quebec&Canada have lots of gun controls, a general anti-gun culture compared to the US, and yet, we do have a lot of suicide.  Having more stringent gun control over the years have not affected significatively our rate of suicide.

I believe that when someone is decided to do it, really decided, they'll find a way to end this.

We agree that people with immense physical suffering can end their life prematurely.  I am unsure it is really wise to try to bring back from the brink someone who has decided to let it go.  I just don't know.

You may find this study interesting:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0232252

Key finding: 64% of firearm suicides could be averted if firearms were not available; only 36% of would-be firearm suicides would simply choose another method. The authors estimate that the rate in the us would be 26% lower if it had gun controls.



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 16, 2021, 05:51:33 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 15, 2021, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 15, 2021, 02:12:31 PM
A considerably larger fraction would find other methods, some of which pose a greater risk to bystanders.

So your argument against gun control is that by giving people and easy way to kill themselves, it protects the lives of others?

Right now, in the US, there are about 50k suicides per year. About half of those are with guns.

For the remanining half, can you give us some stats on how many of them result in siginficant harm to others in the process, such that we could figure out how saving 25,000 a year from killing themselves will just end up killing a bunch of other people.

I am really curious to know the answer to this one. Who knew that  letting people shoot themselves was such a key factor in reducing the deaths and injuries to countless innocents caught up in the wanton carnage of non-gun use suicide!
Even if you remove all guns from the US, you would still have 50k suicides a year, it would just be with different means.
I don't think suicide is dependent on the tools at your disposal.

That is simply not true. In fact, it's so obviously not true I wonder if even you believe it. How can you possibly argue that the availability of a tool expressingly designed to kill humans doesn't result in greater incidences of killing humans when some human decides they want to kill themselves? We know that most people who attempt suicide do not do so again - that for many it is a spur of the moment action that is almost immediately regretted.

This is just from a Harvard study, so you can probably ignore it as left wing liberal bullshit or something.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/
QuoteIn the United States, suicides outnumber homicides almost two to one. Perhaps the real tragedy behind suicide deaths—about 30,000 a year, one for every 45 attempts—is that so many could be prevented. Research shows that whether attempters live or die depends in large part on the ready availability of highly lethal means, especially firearms.

A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School's Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower.

The lesson? Many lives would likely be saved if people disposed of their firearms, kept them locked away, or stored them outside the home. Says HSPH Professor of Health Policy David Hemenway, the ICRC's director: "Studies show that most attempters act on impulse, in moments of panic or despair. Once the acute feelings ease, 90 percent do not go on to die by suicide."

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 16, 2021, 05:53:24 PM
I was going to try and convince Viper that the suicide rate in the US is much higher than in Quebec but in fact they were almost identical: ~13.3 suicide deaths per 100,000 per year.  That of course measures deaths, not attempts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 16, 2021, 06:01:00 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 16, 2021, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 16, 2021, 12:31:42 PM
Even if you remove all guns from the US, you would still have 50k suicides a year, it would just be with different means.
I don't think suicide is dependent on the tools at your disposal.

All the evidence says that this is incorrect.  90% of those who attempt suicide and fail do not go on to attempt it again (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/ (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/)).  So making the means of the first attempt as difficult as possible will decrease suicide deaths.
Quebec&Canada have lots of gun controls, a general anti-gun culture compared to the US, and yet, we do have a lot of suicide.  Having more stringent gun control over the years have not affected significatively our rate of suicide.

Canada has nearly 33% fewer suicides than the US, as a rate.

Almost all of that difference, btw, is among men. Women, who tend to not use guns nearly as often, the difference between Canada and the US is less than 5%.

So yeah, your conviction here is based entirely on completely false data.
Quote
I believe that when someone is decided to do it, really decided, they'll find a way to end this.

What about the people who are not "decided" to do, not "really decided" and they shoot themselves?

WTF - do you actually believe that the only people who kill themselves are those who "really decided" to do it and are not going to be moved from that no matter what? Even though you know perfectly well that study after study after study has shown that to not be true at all?

Quote

We agree that people with immense physical suffering can end their life prematurely.  I am unsure it is really wise to try to bring back from the brink someone who has decided to let it go.  I just don't know.

You do know - you just said you knew, and you know for sure that despite that massive data that shows otherwise, reducing the availability of guns simply will not matter, and hence those tens of thousands of deaths are of no concern at all.

I will claim to "know" as well. I think it is very wise, and compassionate, to bring back someone who in a fit of depression, anxiety, or mental illness does something that might kill themselves, rather then just say "golly I don't know I guess we will just let them die"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 16, 2021, 06:03:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 16, 2021, 05:53:24 PM
I was going to try and convince Viper that the suicide rate in the US is much higher than in Quebec but in fact they were almost identical: ~13.3 suicide deaths per 100,000 per year.  That of course measures deaths, not attempts.

Why would you compare the US to Quebec, instead of all of Canada?

Canada overall is at 10.3 per year, which is about a third less than the overall US of 14.7 per year. If we want to cherry pick the worst parts to compare, I would guess the rates in some parts of the US are much higher.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 16, 2021, 06:08:44 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 16, 2021, 06:03:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 16, 2021, 05:53:24 PM
I was going to try and convince Viper that the suicide rate in the US is much higher than in Quebec but in fact they were almost identical: ~13.3 suicide deaths per 100,000 per year.  That of course measures deaths, not attempts.

Why would you compare the US to Quebec, instead of all of Canada?

Canada overall is at 10.3 per year, which is about a third less than the overall US of 14.7 per year. If we want to cherry pick the worst parts to compare, I would guess the rates in some parts of the US are much higher.

To expand on this.

The overall US rate is 14.7. There are many state were the rate is over 25, like Montana, Wyoming, and Alaska. And many over 20 as well.

Continuing the trend....there is a direct correlation between suicide rate and percentage of households that have guns in them as well, in the US.

The data is pretty much irrerfutable. Gun availability is not the ONLY factor in suicide rate of course (poverty, mental health, access to medical care, etc., etc.), but there is no doubt that easy access to guns results in much, much more successful suicide.

And forget the data for a second. That is just obviously true. Access to a tool that is specifically designed to achieve a particular effect is pretty fucking obviously going to result in that effect being achieved more consistently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 16, 2021, 06:09:05 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 16, 2021, 06:29:24 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 16, 2021, 06:08:44 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 16, 2021, 06:03:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 16, 2021, 05:53:24 PM
I was going to try and convince Viper that the suicide rate in the US is much higher than in Quebec but in fact they were almost identical: ~13.3 suicide deaths per 100,000 per year.  That of course measures deaths, not attempts.

Why would you compare the US to Quebec, instead of all of Canada?

Canada overall is at 10.3 per year, which is about a third less than the overall US of 14.7 per year. If we want to cherry pick the worst parts to compare, I would guess the rates in some parts of the US are much higher.

To expand on this.

The overall US rate is 14.7. There are many state were the rate is over 25, like Montana, Wyoming, and Alaska. And many over 20 as well.

Continuing the trend....there is a direct correlation between suicide rate and percentage of households that have guns in them as well, in the US.

The data is pretty much irrerfutable. Gun availability is not the ONLY factor in suicide rate of course (poverty, mental health, access to medical care, etc., etc.), but there is no doubt that easy access to guns results in much, much more successful suicide.

And forget the data for a second. That is just obviously true. Access to a tool that is specifically designed to achieve a particular effect is pretty fucking obviously going to result in that effect being achieved more consistently.

To amplify this with a digression:

depression is an odd thing, it can come with suicidal ideation (basically, thinking a lot about killing oneself) as well as an inability to plan and function. Often, these two things can cancel each other out somewhat - in that it takes a certain amount of planning and determination to kill oneself successfully, and the same depression that makes one think of killing oneself, also makes one so listless and apathetic that you don't actually do it.

This, by the way, is one of the reasons why some anti-depressants carry a seemingly paradoxical risk of suicide. They affect different symptoms of depression at different rates. It is perfectly possible for them to make the user less apathetic and listless, while not removing the suicidal ideation ... meaning that someone who had the ideation before taking the drug (but did not act on it), now has the drive and planning to act on it successfully ...

This also explains why guns can be very dangerous. As noted, lots of people who are depressed and have suicidal ideation lack the energy to carry out a difficult plan of suicide - so they don't (and then the depression goes away, they get treatment, or whatever). However, if a super easy method of suicide is available, one that did not take much planning or effort, they may use it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 17, 2021, 03:58:02 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 16, 2021, 05:53:24 PM
I was going to try and convince Viper that the suicide rate in the US is much higher than in Quebec but in fact they were almost identical: ~13.3 suicide deaths per 100,000 per year.  That of course measures deaths, not attempts.

You have to consider other factors at play as well as availability of guns.
The culture may lean towards melancholy and the link of the dark days in winter to depression is well observed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 10:02:14 AM
I have no idea why the provinces vary so much in suicide rates.

For some reason, Quebec and New Brunswick have a much higher rate than Ontario and PEI. Why this should be so, I do not know.

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/provincial/society/suicides.aspx
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 17, 2021, 11:52:53 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 10:02:14 AM
I have no idea why the provinces vary so much in suicide rates.

For some reason, Quebec and New Brunswick have a much higher rate than Ontario and PEI. Why this should be so, I do not know.

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/provincial/society/suicides.aspx

I wonder how the rates break down within Quebec Ontario and BC.  Rural vs Urban - less mental health resources vs access to a wide variety of services perhaps? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 17, 2021, 11:52:53 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 10:02:14 AM
I have no idea why the provinces vary so much in suicide rates.

For some reason, Quebec and New Brunswick have a much higher rate than Ontario and PEI. Why this should be so, I do not know.

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/provincial/society/suicides.aspx

I wonder how the rates break down within Quebec Ontario and BC.  Rural vs Urban - less mental health resources vs access to a wide variety of services perhaps?

Good questions - I also wondered whether the relative percentage of the population being First Nations would have something to do with it, as I remember hearing they have a higher average suicide rate than the non-First Nations population.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 17, 2021, 01:20:56 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151260967_3840977965979132_736522679795402541_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=7w0ahMglVSUAX_1qBEC&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3186ea23ff529c2ddc1f8e12d2a895bb&oe=605237E6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 17, 2021, 03:13:32 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 17, 2021, 11:52:53 AM
Quote from: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 10:02:14 AM
I have no idea why the provinces vary so much in suicide rates.

For some reason, Quebec and New Brunswick have a much higher rate than Ontario and PEI. Why this should be so, I do not know.

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/provincial/society/suicides.aspx

I wonder how the rates break down within Quebec Ontario and BC.  Rural vs Urban - less mental health resources vs access to a wide variety of services perhaps?

Good questions - I also wondered whether the relative percentage of the population being First Nations would have something to do with it, as I remember hearing they have a higher average suicide rate than the non-First Nations population.

Yeah, I think there is a lot to that, and would help explain PEI's low rate
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 03:38:27 PM
My proposal doesn't hold water though - Ontario has a larger percentage of First Nations than Quebec.

Ontario is at 2.8%, Quebec at 1.75%.

So that cannot explain why Quebec has a higher percentage suicide rate than Ontario.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 03:42:05 PM
More searching - found a Globe article, that claims some is better reporting in Quebec, but not all; that even allowing for better reporting, the rate among men in Quebec (and New Brunswick) in particular is high, but basically no-one knows why. Speculation as to "cultural factors", though no detail as to what those could be.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/national/quebec-canadas-suicide-hot-spot/article20433408/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 17, 2021, 03:44:27 PM
The root of the problem is probably the oppressively boot of the British Monarchy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 17, 2021, 05:57:45 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 03:38:27 PM
My proposal doesn't hold water though - Ontario has a larger percentage of First Nations than Quebec.

Ontario is at 2.8%, Quebec at 1.75%.

So that cannot explain why Quebec has a higher percentage suicide rate than Ontario.

Percentage is probably not exactly useful. First Nations living in urban areas of Southern Ontario (or close to Montreal) =/= isolated communities in the North. And it wouldn't exactly explain NB either. Quebec's suicide rate has been way above Canadian average since at least the 80s - 90s; at that time, it was mostly teenagers and young adults (and mostly men). Today, it's mostly 45-64 y.o., as in the rest of Canada. There hasn't been any good explanation for this difference. It seems clear that there is a cultural difference (i.e., it's also higher in francophone NB than it is in anglophone NB, and people who commit suicide in Quebec usually do not use firearms, contrary to the ROC) - but what lies behind such a cultural difference is difficult to pinpoint.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 07:13:56 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 17, 2021, 05:57:45 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 17, 2021, 03:38:27 PM
My proposal doesn't hold water though - Ontario has a larger percentage of First Nations than Quebec.

Ontario is at 2.8%, Quebec at 1.75%.

So that cannot explain why Quebec has a higher percentage suicide rate than Ontario.

Percentage is probably not exactly useful. First Nations living in urban areas of Southern Ontario (or close to Montreal) =/= isolated communities in the North. And it wouldn't exactly explain NB either. Quebec's suicide rate has been way above Canadian average since at least the 80s - 90s; at that time, it was mostly teenagers and young adults (and mostly men). Today, it's mostly 45-64 y.o., as in the rest of Canada. There hasn't been any good explanation for this difference. It seems clear that there is a cultural difference (i.e., it's also higher in francophone NB than it is in anglophone NB, and people who commit suicide in Quebec usually do not use firearms, contrary to the ROC) - but what lies behind such a cultural difference is difficult to pinpoint.

Yeah, did a bit of searching of articles, posted one below this comment, found that there isn't any obvious reason for the difference, other than cultural differences - though what differences may be implicated is not easy to determine. Essentially, there is a difference, but the reason for it is not clear.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 18, 2021, 02:11:36 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151641234_10222070625092285_8879756758433022634_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=YyP4Gj80S5wAX8UULRc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7f543fe7d970569b9c4f5fb0ab8fb162&oe=6052F5ED)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116337308_10163763240860433_421092300959022770_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=kFW95epUk_4AX8_OPMX&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c7c2e87c578f2f430ecc51e9415b0a82&oe=6052194B)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/148430988_10215059866090348_3401870069591982206_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=QZRsW0wo6TwAX8Snfxc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d535e80408ef6836e61e43ab7de12fc1&oe=6052A22B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 18, 2021, 04:17:37 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 18, 2021, 02:11:36 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151641234_10222070625092285_8879756758433022634_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=YyP4Gj80S5wAX8UULRc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7f543fe7d970569b9c4f5fb0ab8fb162&oe=6052F5ED)

Ah. Has it never been cold before in Germany prior to this year?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 18, 2021, 04:28:44 AM
I think a friend might have gone nutty.

They shared this article with an air of Biden loves China...

https://nypost.com/2021/02/17/biden-says-uighur-genocide-is-part-of-chinas-different-norms/amp/?fbclid=IwAR2UasXWiAYiTvUTHxQuTaGx4artMNljWLcyXfLJIPPplS1NsKUB_iven3Q

Quote
Biden dismisses Uighur genocide as part of China's 'different norms'

When the article itself says...

Quote"If you know anything about Chinese history, it has always been, the time when China has been victimized by the outer world is when they haven't been unified at home," Biden began. "So the central — well, vastly overstated — the central principle of Xi Jinping is that there must be a united, tightly controlled China. And he uses his rationale for the things he does based on that."


"I point out to him no American president can be sustained as a president, if he doesn't reflect the values of the United States," the US president continued. "And so the idea that I am not going to speak out against what he's doing in Hong Kong, what he's doing with the Uighurs in western mountains of China and Taiwan — trying to end the one China policy by making it forceful ... [Xi] gets it."

Asked during the town hall whether there would be repercussions for the CCP over the genocide, Biden sidestepped the question, saying the US would "reassert our role as spokespersons for human rights at the UN and other agencies."

"Well, there will be repercussions for China and [Xi] knows that. What I'm doing is, making clear that we, in fact, are going to continue to reassert our role as spokespersons for human rights at the UN and other agencies that have an impact on their attitude," he said.
 


:hmm:

err....well....that's....an interpretation?
Not one that displays much comprehension of English but.....yeah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 18, 2021, 05:00:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 18, 2021, 04:17:37 AM
Ah. Has it never been cold before in Germany prior to this year?

Truth be told, I've seen no articles that due to a few frost/snow days Germany was falling into an energy crisis as that article seems to hint at.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 18, 2021, 05:23:36 AM
I think Bud Brigham knows more about Germany than some random dude on Languish. No offense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 18, 2021, 06:12:31 AM
The site seems to be (shock!) nutters or exploiters of nutters: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/%22Stop_These_Things%22
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 18, 2021, 08:29:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 18, 2021, 06:12:31 AM
The site seems to be (shock!) nutters or exploiters of nutters: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/%22Stop_These_Things%22
Thats my last name. I'll thank you not to use it as a perjorative term.

What if I said, "the site seems to be timmays or exploiters of timmays?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 18, 2021, 08:31:38 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 18, 2021, 08:29:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 18, 2021, 06:12:31 AM
The site seems to be (shock!) nutters or exploiters of nutters: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/%22Stop_These_Things%22
Thats my last name. I'll thank you not to use it as a perjorative term.

What if I said, "the site seems to be timmays or exploiters of timmays?"

I apologize and shall use "nutjobs", "headcases", and "conspiracists" henceforth (though the former two seem unfair towards raz).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 18, 2021, 08:39:00 AM
Wags, stop being such a nutter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 18, 2021, 08:45:16 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 18, 2021, 08:39:00 AM
Wags, stop being such a nutter.
Stop being such a Syt!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 19, 2021, 08:52:03 AM
This seems a bit out of date ...

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/150316178_259573965671567_8217322223184713438_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WuweTTu8U6oAX9fw_26&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=871930ddeb4c09a4930efcb6db7aa184&oe=6056DFFE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 19, 2021, 10:10:51 AM
Florida Coronavirus count as of now:
1,849,744
Deaths:
29,476
Recovered:
1,028,503

Not sure when your sister posted that, but you might ask her to look at some actual data.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 19, 2021, 10:17:09 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 19, 2021, 10:10:51 AM
Florida Coronavirus count as of now:
1,849,744
Deaths:
29,476
Recovered:
1,028,503

Not sure when your sister posted that, but you might ask her to look at some actual data.
She'll respond with, "Do your research here is a start: https://newsmax.ru/democratscausecancer"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 19, 2021, 10:18:13 AM
 :lol:

EDIT, the picture was posted by:

QuoteVote Donald J. Trump Jr. New York State Governor 2022-2030

Impeach Joe BIDEN Now to SAVE America
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 20, 2021, 04:33:14 PM
Quotehttp://One crisp winter morning in Sweden, a cute little girl named Greta woke up to a perfect world, one where there were no petroleum products ruining the earth. She tossed aside her cotton sheet and wool blanket and stepped out onto a dirt floor covered with willow bark that had been pulverized with rocks. "What's this?" she asked.
"Pulverized willow bark," replied her fairy godmother.
"What happened to the carpet?" she asked.
"The carpet was nylon, which is made from butadiene and hydrogen cyanide, both made from petroleum," came the response.
Greta smiled, acknowledging that adjustments are necessary to save the planet, and moved to the sink to brush her teeth where instead of a toothbrush, she found a willow, mangled on one end to expose wood fibre bristles.
"Your old toothbrush?" noted her godmother, "Also nylon."
"Where's the water?" asked Greta.
"Down the road in the canal," replied her godmother, 'Just make sure you avoid water with cholera in it"
"Why's there no running water?" Greta asked, becoming a little peevish.
"Well," said her godmother, who happened to teach engineering at MIT, "Where do we begin?" There followed a long monologue about how sink valves need elastomer seats and how copper pipes contain copper, which has to be mined and how it's impossible to make all-electric earth-moving equipment with no gear lubrication or tires and how ore has to be smelted to a make metal, and that's tough to do with only electricity as a source of heat, and even if you use only electricity, the wires need insulation, which is petroleum-based, and though most of Sweden's energy is produced in an environmentally friendly way because of hydro and nuclear, if you do a mass and energy balance around the whole system, you still need lots of petroleum products like lubricants and nylon and rubber for tires and asphalt for filling potholes and wax and iPhone plastic and elastic to hold your underwear up while operating a copper smelting furnace and . . .
"What's for breakfast?" interjected Greta, whose head was hurting.
"Fresh, range-fed chicken eggs," replied her godmother. "Raw."
"How so, raw?" inquired Greta.
"Well, . . ." And once again, Greta was told about the need for petroleum products like transformer oil and scores of petroleum products essential for producing metals for frying pans and in the end was educated about how you can't have a petroleum-free world and then cook eggs. Unless you rip your front fence up and start a fire and carefully cook your egg in an orange peel like you do in Boy Scouts. Not that you can find oranges in Sweden anymore.
"But I want poached eggs like my Aunt Tilda makes," lamented Greta.
"Tilda died this morning," the godmother explained. "Bacterial pneumonia."
"What?!" interjected Greta. "No one dies of bacterial pneumonia! We have penicillin." 
"Not anymore," explained godmother "The production of penicillin requires chemical extraction using isobutyl acetate, which, if you know your organic chemistry, is petroleum-based. Lots of people are dying, which is problematic because there's not any easy way of disposing of the bodies since backhoes need hydraulic oil and crematoriums can't really burn many bodies using as fuel Swedish fences and furniture, which are rapidly disappearing - being used on the black market for roasting eggs and staying warm."
This represents only a fraction of Greta's day, a day without microphones to exclaim into and a day without much food, and a day without carbon-fibre boats to sail in, but a day that will save the planet.
Tune in tomorrow when Greta needs a root canal and learns how Novocain is synthesized.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 20, 2021, 04:35:24 PM
Come back, zinc! Come back!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 20, 2021, 04:44:53 PM
No springs!

https://youtu.be/le2eB2xtvBQ
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 20, 2021, 08:58:33 PM
The Simpsons or MST3K? I can't tell which handled it better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 21, 2021, 10:44:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/30222231_2536100869949338_4849779377317085184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_KFNV8dCOBkAX-yFz0e&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&tp=6&oh=41a89de054a0c4af868cdab9d190212b&oe=60587451)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 21, 2021, 12:25:20 PM
Explicit affirmations of Christian Nationalism are not very surprising these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 21, 2021, 12:30:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 21, 2021, 10:44:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/30222231_2536100869949338_4849779377317085184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_KFNV8dCOBkAX-yFz0e&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&tp=6&oh=41a89de054a0c4af868cdab9d190212b&oe=60587451)

That is three things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 21, 2021, 12:45:46 PM
Textiles are often the forgotten cause of the creation of the US
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 21, 2021, 02:12:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 21, 2021, 10:44:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/30222231_2536100869949338_4849779377317085184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_KFNV8dCOBkAX-yFz0e&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&tp=6&oh=41a89de054a0c4af868cdab9d190212b&oe=60587451)

"In Glock we Trust"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 21, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
Is the book French?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2021, 03:29:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2021, 12:30:50 PM
That is three things.

I count four.
Fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 21, 2021, 07:07:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 21, 2021, 02:12:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 21, 2021, 10:44:13 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/30222231_2536100869949338_4849779377317085184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_KFNV8dCOBkAX-yFz0e&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&tp=6&oh=41a89de054a0c4af868cdab9d190212b&oe=60587451)

"In Glock we Trust"
All others pay blood.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 22, 2021, 02:35:17 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151090248_5031570773580750_2197236410312200495_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Ks5-44zVeroAX966NCf&_nc_oc=AQkw7ICAqMUZC1EA0oifQBrM3rqnc1sHOpNnIPsoSxs2nkWo2Wl0SpGCJNcG6XOLe2c&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5a05e0529f855997b8109afbb20fd1bd&oe=60597428)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 22, 2021, 03:24:04 AM
There were no pipe bombs... But the pipe bombs weren't by trump supporters. If you want to talk about antifa pipe bombs then that's OK.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2021, 03:28:19 AM
Were there really no pipe bombs?  I never heard that.

And I guess she means the cops who died were Trump supporters too?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 22, 2021, 03:30:13 AM
Dudes, she is listing lies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 22, 2021, 03:33:46 AM
The cop who was hit with a fire extinguisher actually was a Trump supporter, though obviously one whose sense of duty did not leave him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 22, 2021, 04:03:05 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 22, 2021, 03:33:46 AM
The cop who was hit with a fire extinguisher actually was a Trump supporter, though obviously one whose sense of duty did not leave him.

The first comment on the original post claims he died from a stroke due to a blood clot.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: katmai on February 22, 2021, 06:28:17 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2021, 03:28:19 AM
Were there really no pipe bombs?  I never heard that.

the pipe bombs were shown in video footage to have been placed between 7:30 and 8:30 pm on January 5th. She's a vile bitch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 22, 2021, 10:00:47 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 22, 2021, 03:28:19 AM
Were there really no pipe bombs?  I never heard that.

Because there were pipe bombs

She is saying there were no pipe bombs "placed on Jan 6" because the info is that they were placed the evening of Jan 5

This is the kind of argumentation these people engage in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 11:07:34 AM
Pipe bombs being placed on January 5 vs. January 6 is relevant to refute an argument that a speech Trump gave on January 6 inspired a crowd to become violent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 22, 2021, 11:21:26 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 11:07:34 AM
Pipe bombs being placed on January 5 vs. January 6 is relevant to refute an argument that a speech Trump gave on January 6 inspired a crowd to become violent.

True enough.

But if was whipping the crowd into a frenzy prior to Jan 6, and the Jan 6 was just the final "it's go time", then it doesn't really signify.

Is anyone arguing that Trump's call to insurrection went from zero to 100 on Jan 6, and nothing relevant happened prior?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 11:48:07 AM
Quote from: Jacob on February 22, 2021, 11:21:26 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 11:07:34 AM
Pipe bombs being placed on January 5 vs. January 6 is relevant to refute an argument that a speech Trump gave on January 6 inspired a crowd to become violent.

True enough.

But if was whipping the crowd into a frenzy prior to Jan 6, and the Jan 6 was just the final "it's go time", then it doesn't really signify.

Is anyone arguing that Trump's call to insurrection went from zero to 100 on Jan 6, and nothing relevant happened prior?

Nope.

But the fact that a bomb was planted prior to January 6 does seem to be a relevant defense fact.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 22, 2021, 12:07:02 PM
No it is not a relevant defense fact, it is the opposite.

No one ever claimed that the pipe bombs were placed DURING the insurrection; that would be absurd.

The belief was and always has been that the the bombs may have been placed beforehand to draw away police from the Capitol. 

That fits completely with the fact that they were initially planted the night before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 22, 2021, 12:07:02 PM
No it is not a relevant defense fact, it is the opposite.

No one ever claimed that the pipe bombs were placed DURING the insurrection; that would be absurd.

The belief was and always has been that the the bombs may have been placed beforehand to draw away police from the Capitol. 

That fits completely with the fact that they were initially planted the night before.

Which means the speech Trump made on January 6 did not cause a peaceful assembly to become violent - violent actions were already in motion.

It sets the timeline back for when Trump incited violence. Supposedly the prosecution would have to focus on communications prior to January 6.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 22, 2021, 05:30:12 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Which means the speech Trump made on January 6 did not cause a peaceful assembly to become violent - violent actions were already in motion.

It sets the timeline back for when Trump incited violence. Supposedly the prosecution would have to focus on communications prior to January 6.

A couple of scenarios:

Scenario 1: Trump and his circle were part of planning the coup attempt. Part of the coup attempt involved people preparing the action on the 6th, including planting pipe bombs on the 5th. At the appropriate time Trump, via his speech, incites the great mass of people not part of the planning to act to provide cover for the the people who are.

Scenario 2: Trump and his circle were not planning a coup attempt. They just poured rhetorical gasoline on everything prior to the 6th. As the situation got more intense, someone plants pipe bombs on the 5th. Then on the 6th, Trump throws a lit match at the gasoline soaked situation via his speech, inciting the attempted coup.

In both cases the speech on the 6th is enough to incite violence given the inflamed situation. The pipe bombs are an indication of how inflamed the situation was. Making the speech was at best grossly irresponsible and at worse an attempt to overthrow the government of the USA.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2021, 05:33:03 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 22, 2021, 12:07:02 PM
No it is not a relevant defense fact, it is the opposite.

No one ever claimed that the pipe bombs were placed DURING the insurrection; that would be absurd.

The belief was and always has been that the the bombs may have been placed beforehand to draw away police from the Capitol. 

That fits completely with the fact that they were initially planted the night before.

Which means the speech Trump made on January 6 did not cause a peaceful assembly to become violent - violent actions were already in motion.

It sets the timeline back for when Trump incited violence. Supposedly the prosecution would have to focus on communications prior to January 6.


How do you know the bomber was at the rally?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 06:26:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 22, 2021, 05:30:12 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Which means the speech Trump made on January 6 did not cause a peaceful assembly to become violent - violent actions were already in motion.

It sets the timeline back for when Trump incited violence. Supposedly the prosecution would have to focus on communications prior to January 6.

A couple of scenarios:

Scenario 1: Trump and his circle were part of planning the coup attempt. Part of the coup attempt involved people preparing the action on the 6th, including planting pipe bombs on the 5th. At the appropriate time Trump, via his speech, incites the great mass of people not part of the planning to act to provide cover for the the people who are.

Scenario 2: Trump and his circle were not planning a coup attempt. They just poured rhetorical gasoline on everything prior to the 6th. As the situation got more intense, someone plants pipe bombs on the 5th. Then on the 6th, Trump throws a lit match at the gasoline soaked situation via his speech, inciting the attempted coup.

In both cases the speech on the 6th is enough to incite violence given the inflamed situation. The pipe bombs are an indication of how inflamed the situation was. Making the speech was at best grossly irresponsible and at worse an attempt to overthrow the government of the USA.

Totally agree. But it is still a relevant defense point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 22, 2021, 07:10:43 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 06:26:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 22, 2021, 05:30:12 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Which means the speech Trump made on January 6 did not cause a peaceful assembly to become violent - violent actions were already in motion.

It sets the timeline back for when Trump incited violence. Supposedly the prosecution would have to focus on communications prior to January 6.

A couple of scenarios:

Scenario 1: Trump and his circle were part of planning the coup attempt. Part of the coup attempt involved people preparing the action on the 6th, including planting pipe bombs on the 5th. At the appropriate time Trump, via his speech, incites the great mass of people not part of the planning to act to provide cover for the the people who are.

Scenario 2: Trump and his circle were not planning a coup attempt. They just poured rhetorical gasoline on everything prior to the 6th. As the situation got more intense, someone plants pipe bombs on the 5th. Then on the 6th, Trump throws a lit match at the gasoline soaked situation via his speech, inciting the attempted coup.

In both cases the speech on the 6th is enough to incite violence given the inflamed situation. The pipe bombs are an indication of how inflamed the situation was. Making the speech was at best grossly irresponsible and at worse an attempt to overthrow the government of the USA.

Totally agree. But it is still a relevant defense point.

Defense against what?  Trump and co are not being charged with being innocent before January 6.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 23, 2021, 01:38:40 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM

Which means the speech Trump made on January 6 did not cause a peaceful assembly to become violent - violent actions were already in motion.

It sets the timeline back for when Trump incited violence. Supposedly the prosecution would have to focus on communications prior to January 6.

yes ... that was the house manager's impeachment case ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on February 23, 2021, 04:24:36 AM
So grumbler and MM--if you were the defense attorney of Trump and the prosecution played the video in whole or part of the speech on January 6, you wouldn't bring up that violent events were already in motion prior to the speech?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 23, 2021, 04:27:46 AM
If they were defense attorneys of Trump they would rock a 60 IQ and be unpaid. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 23, 2021, 07:04:00 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/858sQfmK/onm.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 23, 2021, 07:25:12 AM
Its funny to see the wailing and gnashing of loonyconservatives as the double standards start to be lessened and they face consequences for their nonsense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 23, 2021, 09:02:40 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 23, 2021, 04:24:36 AM
So grumbler and MM--if you were the defense attorney of Trump and the prosecution played the video in whole or part of the speech on January 6, you wouldn't bring up that violent events were already in motion prior to the speech?

It's evidence for the prosecution.  I would raise it only to minimize it - i.e. we don't know who did it or what the connection was to the Capitol attack.  But more likely I'd say nothing about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 23, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
I'm not sure I want to live in country where "only voice is allowed to be heard".  I like music as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 23, 2021, 10:09:40 AM
Finally the rightful place of acapella will be enforced.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 23, 2021, 01:54:18 PM
Be a neat trick to stifle noises made by objects falling or striking each other.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 23, 2021, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 23, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
I'm not sure I want to live in country where "only voice is allowed to be heard".  I like music as well.

Be nice to Oleg now. He needs to fill his quota of Facebook posts and is working with Google translate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 23, 2021, 02:57:24 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 23, 2021, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 23, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
I'm not sure I want to live in country where "only voice is allowed to be heard".  I like music as well.

Be nice to Oleg now. He needs to fill his quota of Facebook posts and is working with Google translate.

That text is by my sister, not Oleg. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 23, 2021, 02:58:48 PM
These damn immigrants need to learn English Syt!  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 23, 2021, 03:28:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 23, 2021, 02:57:24 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 23, 2021, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 23, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
I'm not sure I want to live in country where "only voice is allowed to be heard".  I like music as well.

Be nice to Oleg now. He needs to fill his quota of Facebook posts and is working with Google translate.

That text is by my sister, not Oleg. :P


Oh.  I thought they taught Germans how Hitler came to power.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 23, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 23, 2021, 02:57:24 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 23, 2021, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 23, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
I'm not sure I want to live in country where "only voice is allowed to be heard".  I like music as well.

Be nice to Oleg now. He needs to fill his quota of Facebook posts and is working with Google translate.

That text is by my sister, not Oleg. :P

Omg, so all those posts where there is text above a news article is from your sister? You take a screenshot and crop and post?

I commend you sir. Above and beyond for Languish entertainment. Have 42 Zoupa points.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 23, 2021, 04:46:31 PM
I kinda feel bad about making fun of her poor grammar. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 23, 2021, 09:17:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 23, 2021, 04:46:31 PM
I kinda feel bad about making fun of her poor grammar. :(

For balance, I should post some of my mainstream centre-left stuff, then you guys could take the piss out of that poor grammar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 24, 2021, 01:52:48 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 23, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Omg, so all those posts where there is text above a news article is from your sister? You take a screenshot and crop and post?

I commend you sir. Above and beyond for Languish entertainment. Have 42 Zoupa points.

Thanks? :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 24, 2021, 01:53:08 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/133111302_3857219137643012_1478953169393308071_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=uuOrgl0SK0cAX_J-PhK&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9a2dcc4a7b348912b16b12b4cda5ceaf&oe=605A21D9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 24, 2021, 02:09:33 AM
Which government though?

Ironic to see that film get mentioned in so much right wing propaganda though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 24, 2021, 02:10:09 AM
Did you sisters not post a bunch of "stolen election" stuff Syt, or is that my imagination?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 24, 2021, 02:49:49 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 24, 2021, 02:10:09 AM
Did you sisters not post a bunch of "stolen election" stuff Syt, or is that my imagination?

My middle sister, her husband and their son in law (the Army First Sgt) did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 25, 2021, 02:05:50 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/153617162_2003550709794356_6530249301320330438_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=eqRmRiMEfjAAX9Zq78V&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=bc6c8af85d16891a860dd1947f31eb51&oe=605B16AB)

I assume the 6 million credited to Hitler is the number of Jews murdered in the Holocaust. I suppose the rest (Soviet POWs, Poles, political enemies, gays, mentally or physically handicapped, Sinti & Roma and other 'undesirables' were armed).

Also: not so subtle "Communists are worse than Hitler" message.

P.S.: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro "did" these things, but Trump had no role in inciting the Jan 6th mob. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 25, 2021, 04:35:33 AM
:lol:/:bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 25, 2021, 07:43:37 AM
I wonder how many Americans are aware of just how creepy this national gun obsession looks from the outside.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 25, 2021, 07:49:01 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 25, 2021, 07:43:37 AM
I wonder how many Americans are aware of just how creepy this national gun obsession looks from the outside.

Keep in mind that 15, 20 years ago she was against having a gun at home, because she found it too dangerous to have one around the house.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 25, 2021, 07:55:48 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 25, 2021, 07:43:37 AM
I wonder how many Americans are aware of just how creepy this national gun obsession looks from the outside.

I've just two 'gun nuts' that I know of in my family and at least all of us in my immediate family find it creepy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 25, 2021, 08:06:58 AM
It seems like a lot of it is about show. Like that jackoff Proud Boi school committee guy in Michigan. Someone called him out about his Boi activities and he responded by waving a gun around.  Or the pols with a gunrack as their background in Zoom meeetings.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 25, 2021, 08:10:40 AM
Well, a gunrack is a great gift.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 25, 2021, 10:53:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93209459_10220035614137902_692431225847021568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=BlZ1lermuy0AX9KLQiY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3771d37b2762cc458bd028819c9cd366&oe=605EA6F2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 25, 2021, 10:58:22 AM
An inaccurate description of some of the problems.  But yeah, lots of problems trading with China.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 25, 2021, 11:09:33 AM
Yeah, can we return US?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 25, 2021, 11:32:17 AM
I thought this an effective retort to the gun rights meme.

(https://i.imgur.com/16KPlYj.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on February 25, 2021, 11:32:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 25, 2021, 11:09:33 AM
Yeah, can we return US?

No refunds, baby.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 25, 2021, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 25, 2021, 07:43:37 AM
I wonder how many Americans are aware of just how creepy this national gun obsession looks from the outside.

It is not really national.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 25, 2021, 01:52:15 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 25, 2021, 02:05:50 AM
I suppose the rest (Soviet POWs, Poles, political enemies, gays, mentally or physically handicapped, Sinti & Roma and other 'undesirables' were armed).

Yeah I was about to say...arming themselves didn't really do the KPD, Poles, or Soviet POWs much good.

Besides the Germans were murdering the Soviet Jews as fast as they got them, they didn't stop to take away their guns first.

And the people being shot in the picture are probably partisans who were armed.

Also the Chinese and Soviet citizens were mostly starved. If they had had guns to eat I guess they would have been fine?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 25, 2021, 02:08:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 25, 2021, 10:53:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93209459_10220035614137902_692431225847021568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=BlZ1lermuy0AX9KLQiY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3771d37b2762cc458bd028819c9cd366&oe=605EA6F2)
And you just know this same kind of person complains about health and safety gone mad, laws about banana quality, etc...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 25, 2021, 02:09:28 PM
I do kind of agree with crazy anti-foreign rant though :hmm:

Dealing with the Chinese is dangerous, at least in current Xi form.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 25, 2021, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 25, 2021, 02:09:28 PM
I do kind of agree with crazy anti-foreign rant though :hmm:

Dealing with the Chinese is dangerous, at least in current Xi form.
True.  Dealing has to be done competently though. Which Trump and Obama failed at. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on February 25, 2021, 02:11:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 25, 2021, 02:09:28 PM
I do kind of agree with crazy anti-foreign rant though :hmm:

Dealing with the Chinese is dangerous, at least in current Xi form.

Yeah, I was going to say, while it's crudely put the meme does kind of have a point...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 25, 2021, 05:33:35 PM
It doesn't really have a point.  The tainted consumables are all for the domestic market.  We don't import Three Gorges Dam brand dog food.  We import assembled iphones.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 25, 2021, 07:05:05 PM
Belgium, not China, gave us Fentanyl.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 25, 2021, 07:22:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 25, 2021, 05:33:35 PM
It doesn't really have a point.  The tainted consumables are all for the domestic market.  We don't import Three Gorges Dam brand dog food.  We import assembled iphones.

Like I said earlier, the meme did not properly describe the problems, but it definitely has a point. Tainted supplies for the production of dog food did make it into North America; dry wall with asbestos did make it into North America, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on February 25, 2021, 07:42:53 PM
Mott's fruits cup have Chinese apples in them, they are probably tainted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 26, 2021, 06:04:05 AM
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/801170172723462204/812600685551026186/a0700e3c3123f6dd.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 26, 2021, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 25, 2021, 05:33:35 PM
It doesn't really have a point.  The tainted consumables are all for the domestic market.  We don't import Three Gorges Dam brand dog food.  We import assembled iphones.

Except we do import dog food.  That's why they brought it up, there was a case of tainted dog food from China about a decade ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 26, 2021, 09:52:19 AM
The 2007 Melamine pet food case was about imported contaminated wheat gluten used in pet food and livestock feed, rather than dog food itself.  Not that that really changes anything.  The US still overwhelmingly imports finished goods over processed goods or raw materials.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 26, 2021, 10:14:43 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 25, 2021, 07:22:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 25, 2021, 05:33:35 PM
It doesn't really have a point.  The tainted consumables are all for the domestic market.  We don't import Three Gorges Dam brand dog food.  We import assembled iphones.

Like I said earlier, the meme did not properly describe the problems, but it definitely has a point. Tainted supplies for the production of dog food did make it into North America; dry wall with asbestos did make it into North America, etc. etc.

To repeat
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 26, 2021, 10:36:13 AM
If the point of the meme was that the US needs a stronger and more effective product regulatory regime  then I would agree it had a point.  But that wasn't the point of the meme.

The US could ban all trade with China and it would still have the same problems, because tainted and shoddy products are made in Vietnam, Burma, Laos etc. and they are made right here in the USA.  And the US will always have that problem as long as people think they can make money cutting corners and not face sufficient dire consequences for doing so.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 26, 2021, 11:40:44 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 26, 2021, 10:36:13 AM
If the point of the meme was that the US needs a stronger and more effective product regulatory regime  then I would agree it had a point.  But that wasn't the point of the meme.

The US could ban all trade with China and it would still have the same problems, because tainted and shoddy products are made in Vietnam, Burma, Laos etc. and they are made right here in the USA.  And the US will always have that problem as long as people think they can make money cutting corners and not face sufficient dire consequences for doing so.

To repeat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 26, 2021, 03:48:04 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 26, 2021, 10:36:13 AM
If the point of the meme was that the US needs a stronger and more effective product regulatory regime  then I would agree it had a point.  But that wasn't the point of the meme.

The US could ban all trade with China and it would still have the same problems, because tainted and shoddy products are made in Vietnam, Burma, Laos etc. and they are made right here in the USA.  And the US will always have that problem as long as people think they can make money cutting corners and not face sufficient dire consequences for doing so.

Yes, the US will always have problems so long as it has poor internal regulation.  But that does not detract from the fact that China also produces tainted and shoddy products.

You do make a good argument for countries not trading with either country though.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 26, 2021, 04:20:44 PM
The point is though if the US had good standards then China would make better quality products to sell to the US.
It's only logical they'll go for the shittest/cheapest they think they can get away with. Put any other country in china's position and I don't think things would be much different.You hear similar stories about dodgy spices from Bangladesh for instance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 26, 2021, 04:21:14 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 26, 2021, 06:04:05 AM
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/801170172723462204/812600685551026186/a0700e3c3123f6dd.jpg)
And he did all of that in 1 month, before having any long lasting, coherent policy or budget in place.  He is one hell of a leader! :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 27, 2021, 02:22:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/154482523_3718013198246521_6709520430163352088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=dPgcSezdqL8AX9_d4VG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b37255b5c1e11600dcfa04c8c900c930&oe=605F26EA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 27, 2021, 02:29:38 AM
He will need a new Florida home if he gets evicted from Mar e Lago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on February 27, 2021, 10:25:58 AM
So weird how many people still have such a boner for this con man. :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 27, 2021, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2021, 10:25:58 AM
So weird how many people still have such a boner for this con man. :sleep:
Well since opposing him means you are siding with the devil then it is a simple choice between supporting God's viceroy on Earth and jumping straight into the hellfire.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 27, 2021, 02:37:34 PM
The God on Stephen Colbert's ceiling disavowed him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 28, 2021, 02:57:40 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/154640402_10164935317195343_5774242612656987040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=A60J7EYhnuMAX8jCy2g&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=28b060d350a353f02bde1d1eb6eccceb&oe=606082C9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 28, 2021, 03:23:51 AM
They're running out of material.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 02, 2021, 02:52:59 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/133269815_1177008476049139_8650843389667405263_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Rb36p91LK2UAX8zNNjU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e6f3b7e2cb4e3da3f5305eda049c8688&oe=606512E1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 02, 2021, 02:58:58 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/48/4a/b6/484ab61ae625160acd6e3cc71cc460e5--john-belushi-animal-house-house-quotes.jpg)

Damn straight.

Aren't skinny jeans and man buns about 10 years ago though?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 02, 2021, 03:48:00 AM
Edit - Didn't see valmys reply at first.

Are skinny jeans and man buns still a thing? Wasn't that a decade ago?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2021, 04:22:21 AM
Gareth Bale didn't get the memo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 03, 2021, 01:22:53 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/156780801_10222174563130671_6611490958687748876_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xCteLwhygPkAX9DEckZ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=48234226bc7dc8e4d1a40db63f88158a&oe=6064E629)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/156249238_10224939931150520_3621024835704910589_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SQtzZDIOtloAX8U2dBo&_nc_oc=AQn7yMmOKZ9yWcr4n62Zij1PmMjiZ_TPZbyLFZKt4zr5jqLDht2cASDCQQ39EnKKHog&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8cee6666dd86323bf27cc869858ba930&oe=606457C1)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157037156_4038302479523636_3173052810731247049_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=d7wumNiOlD4AX9I0aR0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=285d3f5189c99610fb39854b7eb20026&oe=6063524C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 03, 2021, 01:53:25 AM
No one goes 250 MPH at Albert Park, least of all the 2016 McLaren.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 03, 2021, 02:13:03 AM
Having seen some of the offending images in the Dr Seuss books, I feel the backlash is deserved.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2021, 02:17:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxiN8RaazoA

Info on Dr. Suess if anyone was wondering (like me).

Six books were pulled by the publisher (not Uncle Joe) for things like "Chinese have eyes like two lines" and Africans in grass skirts.

Everyone knows that's Polynesians!  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 03, 2021, 02:23:48 AM
Don't forget the Inuit in fur coats. Monstrous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 03, 2021, 03:02:14 AM
So Dr Seuss publishers pulling some titles is bidens fault? :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 03, 2021, 03:05:27 AM
Not at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2021, 03:07:12 AM
The creepy stare is all on him though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 03, 2021, 11:58:33 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/155474609_1057893238066176_5826893418100467565_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=s_3mS_LEiT4AX86_Jsy&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=df87a0bebfe5d83fc8b825334491cd38&oe=60644ADC)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151184084_10157794055133053_7633700527556035515_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=00wcoLT-3ToAX_HemZv&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f83e4a8e85ad0f958ae75d0f101cfb49&oe=6066DE7F)

I see Fox is still going on about Dr Seuss like there's almost no other topic worth covering right now.

But was there a campaign against Dr Seuss books? Or did the company review the material, decided it no longer fits with young readers today and decided not to publish the books in question anymore? Because except from right wingers I don't see anything about this. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on March 03, 2021, 01:59:39 PM
I thought it was just a a PR move by the publisher. Not a huge leftist assault on Dr Seuss. But outrage porn is outrage porn. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 03, 2021, 02:31:14 PM
Yeah nobody has ever tried to censor rap lyrics before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 03, 2021, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 03, 2021, 02:31:14 PM
Yeah nobody has ever tried to censor rap lyrics before.

:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 10, 2021, 06:28:08 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/158181476_1369076133453985_4076871514072013226_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SnJIPTH6DekAX_M32E-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0fcced588d84e88f22e528c71958d281&oe=606D7BC5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 10, 2021, 12:09:59 PM
If Dr. Suess depicted the graphic crucifixion of the Cat in the Hat as Jesus, we could achieve a perfect balance - we could offend everyone. 😄
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 12:13:27 PM
It is so weird because there was no groundswell of left wing activists canceling Dr Suess. Nobody is being harassed or forced out of their jobs or any of the really bad things that can happen in the culture war.

It is just a publisher deciding not to continue printing a few books. Something that happens all the time. But nobody even asked them to do so, much less forced them through some big culture war attack. It is just weird that this is the hill they want to fight on.

Also they rarely even mention what specific books are no longer being printed. They act like all Dr Suess is now racist for some reason.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 12:16:22 PM
Doctor Suess will help us find Jessu. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 10, 2021, 12:19:44 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 12:16:22 PM
Doctor Suess will help us find Jessu.

One fish
Two fish
Red fish
Jesus fish
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 12:32:27 PM
There is something outrageous about Dr Suess though. The very fact that he has been dead for 30 years yet his books are not only not public domain but will not in any of our lifetimes. Copyright law is so ridiculous. I mean do artists really need to continue to profit from their works decades and decades after they are rotting in their graves? What are these dead artists supposed to do with these revenues? If an engineer invents some amazing device they get a patent for a decade. If the same engineer writes a kids book he gets it for his entire life plus the life of his children and a significant part of his grandchildren as well. I mean do we really need this kind of dynastic benefit? Surely just having a copyright during your lifetime should be incentive enough to be creative.

So, you know, if it was public domain it couldn't be cancelled. So there you go Republicans, reform these copyright laws and strike a blow against cancel culture.

Oh and it seems Tucker Carlson recently claimed we are still in Afghanistan to enforce woke culture on the locals. So hey lets end all of our woke wars and come home!

I wonder how many other left wing peacenik anti-corporate things we can get Conservatives to get on board with due to this culture war shit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 10, 2021, 12:52:35 PM
Blame Sam Clemens for the excessive extent of US copyright protection.  He was determined that his daughters would never have to work.  Ironically, only one of his children, Clara, would survive him.  In fact, she was the only one of the four Twain children to even reach 30 years of age.  She lasted 56 years after his death, so maybe the 70-year provision wasn't so excessive from his POV.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 10, 2021, 01:03:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 12:13:27 PM
It is so weird because there was no groundswell of left wing activists canceling Dr Suess. Nobody is being harassed or forced out of their jobs or any of the really bad things that can happen in the culture war.

It is just a publisher deciding not to continue printing a few books. Something that happens all the time. But nobody even asked them to do so, much less forced them through some big culture war attack. It is just weird that this is the hill they want to fight on.

Also they rarely even mention what specific books are no longer being printed. They act like all Dr Suess is now racist for some reason.

It appeals to conservative media because they don't have to talk about how conservatives attempted to overthrow the government two months ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 10, 2021, 01:05:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 10, 2021, 12:19:44 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 12:16:22 PM
Doctor Suess will help us find Jessu.

One fish
Two fish
Red fish
Jesus fish

One fish
Two fish
Jesus fish
Darwin fish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 01:07:33 PM
Or the fact they are voting against the very popular COVID relief or raising the minimum wage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 10, 2021, 01:19:14 PM
Left-wing Twitterati suggest that the fixation on the Dr Seuss non-issue is so that right-wing media can keep the culture wars going and don't have to show much of what's happening in politics (head of FBI testimony, voter rights and stimulus packages etc.).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on March 10, 2021, 02:05:58 PM
An American friend of mine just posted this  :P

(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/159050507_450194543094108_5137088430124585777_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=YrFjdgMEVTMAX_dFUiz&_nc_ht=scontent-mad1-1.xx&oh=1fa4bd6298410f5c8a4c9f72f7da92ed&oe=606E1633)

Aren't they supposed to be OK with somebody being a traitor to the British Crown?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 02:21:16 PM
I don't get how he is a traitor. He is like 7th in line to the throne now. His usefulness is at an end to the monarchy. Why care what he does at this point? He is just another British Aristocrat at this point, a person who has the ancestral right to be called a weird name.

If I was the Duke of Sussex I would move to Sussex and pretend I was in charge.

"Ahoy there good peasant, it is I your glorious Duke of Sussex here to claim my feudal rights!"

"So...Harry just sign here to get your driver's license renewed."

"I shall my good man as a boon to my loyal retainers."

"Um...thanks. NEXT!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 10, 2021, 02:26:50 PM
Quote from: celedhring on March 10, 2021, 02:05:58 PM
An American friend of mine just posted this  :P

(https://.net/v/t1.0-9/159050507_450194543094108_5137088430124585777_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=YrFjdgMEVTMAX_dFUiz&_nc_ht=scontent-mad1-1.xx&oh=1fa4bd6298410f5c8a4c9f72f7da92ed&oe=606E1633)

Aren't they supposed to be OK with somebody being a traitor to the British Crown?


I wonder where this is coming from. Some of the usual gammon language is with veteran worship but also some really not true to form stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on March 10, 2021, 02:27:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 02:21:16 PM
I don't get how he is a traitor. He is like 7th in line to the throne now. His usefulness is at an end to the monarchy. Why care what he does at this point? He is just another British Aristocrat at this point, a person who has the ancestral right to be called a weird name.

If I was the Duke of Sussex I would move to Sussex and pretend I was in charge.

"Ahoy there good peasant, it is I your glorious Duke of Sussex here to claim my feudal rights!"

"So...Harry just sign here to get your driver's license renewed."

"I shall my good man as a boon to my loyal retainers."

"Um...thanks. NEXT!"

For some reason my mind read that with Matt Berry's voice  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 03:04:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 02:21:16 PM
"Ahoy there good peasant, it is I your glorious Duke of Sussex here to claim my feudal rights!"


Although I do not know if it's the case in Sussex, the Crown still claims its feudal rights (bona vacantia, rights of wreck, fundus) in many places of the UK, most notably in Cornwall and Lancaster. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 03:14:18 PM
Well that is not as much fun.

But surely Harry wouldn't have access to those rights as Duke of Sussex even if the Crown did claim them? Ah well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 10, 2021, 04:37:07 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 10, 2021, 01:19:14 PM
Left-wing Twitterati suggest that the fixation on the Dr Seuss non-issue is so that right-wing media can keep the culture wars going and don't have to show much of what's happening in politics (head of FBI testimony, voter rights and stimulus packages etc.).

I think there is something to that.  It's a bad time to be a Republican right now.  In addition to what you stated, Trump is right now trying to eat the Republican party.  He's telling people not to give the RNC but instead give directly to him.  Trump has said he will not form a new party, but he seems to be doing his damnedest to kill the GOP. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 03:14:18 PM
Well that is not as much fun.

But surely Harry wouldn't have access to those rights as Duke of Sussex even if the Crown did claim them? Ah well.

Probably not in the case of Sussex. But traditionally, the Duke of Cornwall (who is currently Charles, Prince of Wales) enjoys the rights of the duchy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 10, 2021, 05:34:24 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 03:14:18 PM
Well that is not as much fun.

But surely Harry wouldn't have access to those rights as Duke of Sussex even if the Crown did claim them? Ah well.

Probably not in the case of Sussex. But traditionally, the Duke of Cornwall (who is currently Charles, Prince of Wales) enjoys the rights of the duchy.

Duke of Sussex is kind of an invented title.  Harry is only the second holder of it.  The first was Prince Augustus Frederick, 6th son of King George III.  Apparently (and yes of course I'm getting this from Wiki) he was married twice, but neither time did he get royal permission so his children were unable to inherit the title.

The title of course was then re-created in 2018 and given to Harry.

So I very much doubt it has any traditional rights in Sussex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Sussex
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2021, 05:41:07 PM
In the Wolf Hall trilogoy the Duke of Norfolk's son and heir is called Sussex.  I'm assuming this is historical.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 06:27:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2021, 05:41:07 PM
In the Wolf Hall trilogoy the Duke of Norfolk's son and heir is called Sussex.  I'm assuming this is historical.

I don't have the books close to me, but I believe it's Surrey, no?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2021, 06:34:41 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 06:27:47 PM
I don't have the books close to me, but I believe it's Surrey, no?

You could be right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 10, 2021, 09:39:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 10, 2021, 12:32:27 PM
There is something outrageous about Dr Suess though. The very fact that he has been dead for 30 years yet his books are not only not public domain but will not in any of our lifetimes. Copyright law is so ridiculous. I mean do artists really need to continue to profit from their works decades and decades after they are rotting in their graves? What are these dead artists supposed to do with these revenues? If an engineer invents some amazing device they get a patent for a decade. If the same engineer writes a kids book he gets it for his entire life plus the life of his children and a significant part of his grandchildren as well. I mean do we really need this kind of dynastic benefit? Surely just having a copyright during your lifetime should be incentive enough to be creative.

So, you know, if it was public domain it couldn't be cancelled. So there you go Republicans, reform these copyright laws and strike a blow against cancel culture.

Oh and it seems Tucker Carlson recently claimed we are still in Afghanistan to enforce woke culture on the locals. So hey lets end all of our woke wars and come home!

I wonder how many other left wing peacenik anti-corporate things we can get Conservatives to get on board with due to this culture war shit?

Artists? No. Disney, sure does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 11, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2021, 06:34:41 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 06:27:47 PM
I don't have the books close to me, but I believe it's Surrey, no?

You could be right.

The Duke of Norfolk's seat is in Arundel which is in Sussex. His heir is the Earl of Arundel.

Nice pic of Arundel here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Arundel#/media/File:1_castle_arundel_aerial_pano_2017.jpg with the castle in the foreground  :cool:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Gups on March 11, 2021, 05:27:45 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 10, 2021, 06:27:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 10, 2021, 05:41:07 PM
In the Wolf Hall trilogoy the Duke of Norfolk's son and heir is called Sussex.  I'm assuming this is historical.

I don't have the books close to me, but I believe it's Surrey, no?

Yes, it's Surrey (first name: Earl of). Last person to be executed by Henry VIII, sometime after the end of the trilogy.

The  current Duke of Norfolk (Edward Fitzalan-Howard) is also Earl of Norfoly, Earl of Surrey, Earl of Arundel and has a couple of baronies too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on March 11, 2021, 04:46:17 PM
Are these books any good? Got the first one somewhere around.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 11, 2021, 04:49:05 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 11, 2021, 04:46:17 PM
Are these books any good? Got the first one somewhere around.

They're not OMG good but they're pretty good.  The characters are all pretty three dimensional.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 11, 2021, 04:50:13 PM
I did find myself skipping over a lot of Cromwell's inner thoughts though, sort of like the Elvish poetry in LOTR.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2021, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 11, 2021, 04:46:17 PM
Are these books any good? Got the first one somewhere around.

Honestly the first one was a bit of a slog, but got better after that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2021, 07:40:51 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160868173_1789089491272829_112857622970318647_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=oWFlVw-9MHgAX_8UXZW&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5909edb1746d3a647e94c7192eb48010&oe=6074D684)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160751432_10222262780416048_1901404751300599464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ap2rIBrAubQAX--L7_J&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0c37522473512d2a6bedd49620823436&oe=60747362)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 15, 2021, 08:03:10 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2021, 07:40:51 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160868173_1789089491272829_112857622970318647_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=oWFlVw-9MHgAX_8UXZW&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5909edb1746d3a647e94c7192eb48010&oe=6074D684)


Best one in a long time.  :D Take that, Cancel culture!  :lol:

PS: Pepé le Pew for the win!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 15, 2021, 10:37:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2021, 07:40:51 AM


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160751432_10222262780416048_1901404751300599464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ap2rIBrAubQAX--L7_J&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0c37522473512d2a6bedd49620823436&oe=60747362)

I don't understand this one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 15, 2021, 10:40:42 AM
It's just making a taco bowl out of a bag of Doritos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on March 15, 2021, 10:50:42 AM
It's the taco version of Frito-pie  (shudder)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2021, 11:13:38 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 15, 2021, 08:03:10 AM
Best one in a long time.  :D Take that, Cancel culture!  :lol:

PS: Pepé le Pew for the win!

Wait...so you don't find this crass American stereotype of French people offensive?

The weird part about this one is that, just as with Speedy Gonzales, nobody was asking for this. Companies are just being pro-active in finding what might get them in trouble in the future I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2021, 11:15:57 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 15, 2021, 10:37:34 AM
I don't understand this one.

My sister posted it with the unironic comment "Great idea".

I'm not a posh foodie or have high expectations on my diet, but even I find it a bit ... depressing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 15, 2021, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2021, 11:15:57 AM
I'm not a posh foodie or have high expectations on my diet, but even I find it a bit ... depressing.

Why? It's just tacos with Doritos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2021, 11:27:15 AM
Yeah, but eating from the bag? That feels like giving up on life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 15, 2021, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2021, 11:27:15 AM
Yeah, but eating from the bag? That feels like giving up on life.

I guess you in theory one could note dirtying a plate is more wasteful.

You won't hear that argument from me though. :yuk:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2021, 11:52:10 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/9XK17Tf4/fib.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 15, 2021, 12:04:06 PM
Wait, I have an indoor wedding scheduled in exactly 2 months and from talking with vendors the wedding business is booming right now (people who deferred their wedding plus normal wedding business is creating a crush). If Fauci actually said that it seems he is living on planet make believe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 15, 2021, 12:30:47 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2021, 11:27:15 AM
Yeah, but eating from the bag? That feels like giving up on life.

I can agree to that.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2021, 12:42:16 PM
A true man of culture would at least get Cool Ranch Doritos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 15, 2021, 01:43:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 15, 2021, 11:13:38 AM
Wait...so you don't find this crass American stereotype of French people offensive?

The weird part about this one is that, just as with Speedy Gonzales, nobody was asking for this. Companies are just being pro-active in finding what might get them in trouble in the future I guess.
He was based on the character from a famous movie of the late 30s, wasn't he?
I've never seen him as more French than any other, since all my cartoons were speaking French anyway... :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 15, 2021, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 15, 2021, 11:13:38 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 15, 2021, 08:03:10 AM
Best one in a long time.  :D Take that, Cancel culture!  :lol:

PS: Pepé le Pew for the win!

Wait...so you don't find this crass American stereotype of French people offensive?

The weird part about this one is that, just as with Speedy Gonzales, nobody was asking for this. Companies are just being pro-active in finding what might get them in trouble in the future I guess.

The French dub had either a Marseille accent or an Italian one.  :lol: Even the original US dub would have some random Spanish or Italian at times for the Latin Lover parody angle.
The whole rape culture angle by the woke is hilarious from this side of the Atlantic. Perfidious Albion may differ though.  :P

I wonder what will happen when they will discover a certain anime called City Hunter (let us not mention the racier manga) and its hero, Ryo Saeba a.k.a Nicky Larson. Mono probably knows it, since the live adaptation starred Jackie Chan.  :P

As for nobody asking, I beg to differ:

https://twitter.com/charlesmblow/status/1368200161558663168 (https://twitter.com/charlesmblow/status/1368200161558663168)
A NYT journo, riding the #metoo wave.

Pépé le putois got canned from Space Jam 2
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2021/03/10/space-jam-2-did-cancel-culture-come-for-the-looney-tunes/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2021/03/10/space-jam-2-did-cancel-culture-come-for-the-looney-tunes/)
Quote'Space Jam 2': How Cancel Culture Came For Pepe Le Pew, Speedy Gonzalez And Looney Tunes

Warner Archives is releasing some classic Tex Avery cartoons on blu-ray but I guess the somewhat "problematic" ones are not to be released as per the botched DVD release of some years ago.

PS: latest Pépé le putois appearances

Wiki:

Pepé also appeared on the 2006 direct-to-DVD movie "Bah, Humduck! A Looney Tunes Christmas"
Pepé Le Pew has appeared in The Looney Tunes Show episode "Members Only" (2011)
Pepé appeared in Looney Tunes: Rabbits Run (2015)
Pepé also appeared in New Looney Tunes (2015 - 2020)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on March 15, 2021, 03:38:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 15, 2021, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2021, 11:27:15 AM
Yeah, but eating from the bag? That feels like giving up on life.

I guess you in theory one could note dirtying a plate is more wasteful.

You won't hear that argument from me though. :yuk:

When my son had volleyball tournaments, tacos in a bag were a best seller at the concession stand.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 16, 2021, 04:28:26 PM
Huh - I signed up on Twitter just to follow some people.

I started answering some legal tweets, and I'm up to 20 followers!

Anyone else use Twitter?  I've got Syt, but that's the only one I know of.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 16, 2021, 04:32:13 PM
Tim posts tweets all the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 16, 2021, 04:36:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 16, 2021, 04:28:26 PM
Huh - I signed up on Twitter just to follow some people.

I started answering some legal tweets, and I'm up to 20 followers!

Anyone else use Twitter?  I've got Syt, but that's the only one I know of.

Just be careful and mindful of your career prospects. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 16, 2021, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 16, 2021, 04:36:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 16, 2021, 04:28:26 PM
Huh - I signed up on Twitter just to follow some people.

I started answering some legal tweets, and I'm up to 20 followers!

Anyone else use Twitter?  I've got Syt, but that's the only one I know of.

Just be careful and mindful of your career prospects. :)

I'm posting under my own name and keeping it very professional. -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 16, 2021, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 15, 2021, 12:04:06 PM
Wait, I have an indoor wedding scheduled in exactly 2 months and from talking with vendors the wedding business is booming right now (people who deferred their wedding plus normal wedding business is creating a crush). If Fauci actually said that it seems he is living on planet make believe.

How so? You think Fauci can give exact dates for when individual states decide it's okay to have indoor weddings?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 16, 2021, 04:44:43 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 16, 2021, 04:28:26 PM
Huh - I signed up on Twitter just to follow some people.

I started answering some legal tweets, and I'm up to 20 followers!

Anyone else use Twitter?  I've got Syt, but that's the only one I know of.

Gaining followers on social media can be addictive - I post my pictures on Instagram, I'm up around 6.6K.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 16, 2021, 04:50:42 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 16, 2021, 04:44:43 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 16, 2021, 04:28:26 PM
Huh - I signed up on Twitter just to follow some people.

I started answering some legal tweets, and I'm up to 20 followers!

Anyone else use Twitter?  I've got Syt, but that's the only one I know of.

Gaining followers on social media can be addictive - I post my pictures on Instagram, I'm up around 6.6K.

Yeah it seems kind of pointless to post stuff on my own - I have no followers and nobody will see it!

So I just reply to other people's tweets, and sometimes those people find interesting enough to give me a follow.  If I get some more I might start up with original tweets.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 16, 2021, 08:00:10 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 16, 2021, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 15, 2021, 12:04:06 PM
Wait, I have an indoor wedding scheduled in exactly 2 months and from talking with vendors the wedding business is booming right now (people who deferred their wedding plus normal wedding business is creating a crush). If Fauci actually said that it seems he is living on planet make believe.

How so? You think Fauci can give exact dates for when individual states decide it's okay to have indoor weddings?

Actually, Fauci was talking about having "normal" weddings "like we used to" with no masks, no social distancing, etc.  There may be selfish people having such weddings now, but then there have always been selfish people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 16, 2021, 08:46:00 PM
I'm on twitter too, with my real name. I don't really tweet. I use it to follow hockey & CRTC news.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 20, 2021, 04:56:00 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/163189722_278734290422201_1144872785610523488_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=Sf5oU6e8fX8AX8N9Mpo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0c36032de8d446b2d32f2f8ebbb6c782&oe=607A5119)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 20, 2021, 05:19:45 PM
I'm fairly certain that the constitution doesn't have a clause that encourages rebellion.  In fact, the Article IV of the US constitution says  the opposite.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 22, 2021, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 16, 2021, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 15, 2021, 12:04:06 PM
Wait, I have an indoor wedding scheduled in exactly 2 months and from talking with vendors the wedding business is booming right now (people who deferred their wedding plus normal wedding business is creating a crush). If Fauci actually said that it seems he is living on planet make believe.

How so? You think Fauci can give exact dates for when individual states decide it's okay to have indoor weddings?

I think Georgia decided it was okay as of April 24, 2020.

Google the recent images of spring break in Florida. If you are shocked or in anyway surprised by the crowds, you are deluded about what is going on. There seems to be a subset of the population that is living in significant isolation since this all started, and I suspect that portion is significantly overrepresented on languish. Our membership came off a video game forum: I suspect we are more introverted, technologically inclined, higher income, educated, etc. than the public at large, which makes this place an echochamber on this stuff.

I've been to Alaska, Utah, Nevada, Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina and Georgia since this all started, and when you get out of the cities it seems most people don't care. Anecdotally lots of college students don't care.

Georgia allowed gyms to open last April. My gym -- being in Atlanta -- declined to open because "while governor kemp has decided to allow us to open we don't want to risk the health of our members and employees."

Like a week later it reopens, and ultimately required a temperature screen to enter, with a mask except when working out, lots of signs saying to wear a mask, restrictions to keep lockers from overcrowding, saunas closed, the restaurant area closed, hourly sanitation of machines by workers, hourly announcements to socially distance and wear a mask, every other machine closed, and a few others. Even though it was open--at first few people came.

I don't know what happened, but my fiance pointed out a few days ago that over time that has gradually all stopped (except the temperature screenings), and the place is now packed. They still do temperature screenings and you are supposed to wear a mask to enter (some aren't though) but it is almost like old times. I'm kind of anxious now to get a vaccine because I feel like I'll definitely get covid there in the near term otherwise.

I know a lot of you guys think I'm just trolling or posting I told you so's, but it is very confusing that we have a covid lockdown check-in thread without people acknowledging that significant segments of life have just returned to normal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 22, 2021, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 16, 2021, 08:00:10 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 16, 2021, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 15, 2021, 12:04:06 PM
Wait, I have an indoor wedding scheduled in exactly 2 months and from talking with vendors the wedding business is booming right now (people who deferred their wedding plus normal wedding business is creating a crush). If Fauci actually said that it seems he is living on planet make believe.

How so? You think Fauci can give exact dates for when individual states decide it's okay to have indoor weddings?

Actually, Fauci was talking about having "normal" weddings "like we used to" with no masks, no social distancing, etc.  There may be selfish people having such weddings now, but then there have always been selfish people.

The transcript is below. he only referenced "in the normal way" in the second follow up and never said we can have indoor weddings with precautions now.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/03/14/fauci_i_cant_give_you_the_exact_date_weddings_can_be_scheduled_this_year_.html#!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 23, 2021, 02:36:13 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 22, 2021, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 16, 2021, 08:00:10 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 16, 2021, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 15, 2021, 12:04:06 PM
Wait, I have an indoor wedding scheduled in exactly 2 months and from talking with vendors the wedding business is booming right now (people who deferred their wedding plus normal wedding business is creating a crush). If Fauci actually said that it seems he is living on planet make believe.

How so? You think Fauci can give exact dates for when individual states decide it's okay to have indoor weddings?

Actually, Fauci was talking about having "normal" weddings "like we used to" with no masks, no social distancing, etc.  There may be selfish people having such weddings now, but then there have always been selfish people.

The transcript is below. he only referenced "in the normal way" in the second follow up and never said we can have indoor weddings with precautions now.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/03/14/fauci_i_cant_give_you_the_exact_date_weddings_can_be_scheduled_this_year_.html#!

If you read that transcript it is clear that he is talking all along about "weddings in the normal way that we've seen."  Given that the initial prompt was a bizarre and confusing "very quickly, we know President Biden said of backyard gatherings, I've got a staffer or two that wants this question asked of you, and I'm sure they're not alone, which is when can people plan an indoor wedding?"  Fauci starts with "within a reasonable period of time" and then is interrupted and comes back with "I think you're going to see weddings in the normal way that we've seen within a reasonable period of time."  Clearly, that was the answer he was attempting to give all along.

CDC already has advice for those planning indoor weddings, so clearly it feels that they are going to happen.  I'm not sure why you've chosen this hill to die on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on March 23, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 23, 2021, 02:36:13 PM
I'm not sure why you've chosen this hill to die on.

Dorsey doesn't need a reason to do something stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on March 23, 2021, 03:29:49 PM
QuoteI've been to Alaska, Utah, Nevada, Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina and Georgia since this all started, and when you get out of the cities it seems most people don't care.

Geez, I sense a common denominator to these states you've visited, and that you of course extrapolate to the whole country.

Dishonestly of course.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 23, 2021, 04:38:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 23, 2021, 02:36:13 PM
If you read that transcript it is clear that he is talking all along about "weddings in the normal way that we've seen."  Given that the initial prompt was a bizarre and confusing "very quickly, we know President Biden said of backyard gatherings, I've got a staffer or two that wants this question asked of you, and I'm sure they're not alone, which is when can people plan an indoor wedding?"  Fauci starts with "within a reasonable period of time" and then is interrupted and comes back with "I think you're going to see weddings in the normal way that we've seen within a reasonable period of time."  Clearly, that was the answer he was attempting to give all along.

CDC already has advice for those planning indoor weddings, so clearly it feels that they are going to happen.  I'm not sure why you've chosen this hill to die on.

It isn't clear at all, but to that point the "Guidance for Organizing Large Events and Gatherings" begins with:

QuoteCDC continues to recommend that large gatherings be avoided, particularly those in which physical (social) distancing cannot be maintained between people who live in different households. This guidance is intended for those who are planning a large event, such as sporting events, concerts, festivals, conferences, parades, or weddings.

Which of course means that they are recommending against weddings of any size.

They can't legally prevent these things from happening, obviously.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 23, 2021, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 23, 2021, 03:29:49 PM
QuoteI've been to Alaska, Utah, Nevada, Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina and Georgia since this all started, and when you get out of the cities it seems most people don't care.

Geez, I sense a common denominator to these states you've visited, and that you of course extrapolate to the whole country.

Dishonestly of course.

Dishonesty? Fuck off. I told you where I've been to provide the context for my observations. If you don't think I've been to enough places to reach a conclusion, you can say so, but that isn't the same as being dishonest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 23, 2021, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 23, 2021, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on March 23, 2021, 03:29:49 PM
QuoteI've been to Alaska, Utah, Nevada, Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina and Georgia since this all started, and when you get out of the cities it seems most people don't care.

Geez, I sense a common denominator to these states you've visited, and that you of course extrapolate to the whole country.

Dishonestly of course.

Dishonesty? Fuck off. I told you where I've been to provide the context for my observations. If you don't think I've been to enough places to reach a conclusion, you can say so, but that isn't the same as being dishonest.

I'm sure what Zoups was getting to was you'd only visited "red" states.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 23, 2021, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 23, 2021, 04:49:39 PM


I'm sure what Zoups was getting to was you'd only visited "red" states.

I live in Georgia, which FYI did vote for Biden and just elected two Democratic senators. But that point aside, if he thinks my experience is not representative of the country at large - I FUCKING POSTED EXACTLY WHERE I'VE BEEN!!!! Where is the dishonesty?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 23, 2021, 07:01:02 PM
I don't think covid-weariness is a political stance in most cases. If people in red states disregard masks/social distance/etc more blatantly, it's because of looser enforcement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2021, 07:16:07 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 23, 2021, 07:01:02 PM
I don't think covid-weariness is a political stance in most cases. If people in red states disregard masks/social distance/etc more blatantly, it's because of looser enforcement.

Is it actually enforced anywhere? I mean by law enforcement not private property owners.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on March 23, 2021, 07:23:50 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 23, 2021, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 23, 2021, 04:49:39 PM


I'm sure what Zoups was getting to was you'd only visited "red" states.

I live in Georgia, which FYI did vote for Biden and just elected two Democratic senators. But that point aside, if he thinks my experience is not representative of the country at large - I FUCKING POSTED EXACTLY WHERE I'VE BEEN!!!! Where is the dishonesty?

You visited red states, and specifcally mentioned "outside of cities". So I guess that means that if you limit yourself to specifically Trumpettes, then....oh wait, does anyone care what Trumpers are doing? I mean, we already know they've been ignoring this all along because of FREEDOM.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 24, 2021, 11:55:12 AM
NOT shared by my family, but seen on Reddit:

(https://i.redd.it/gc2yoe68pro61.jpg)

Because when I hear Washington, Jefferson, Franklin etc. I think "oppressed underdogs." :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on March 24, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
How was e.g. Jefferson not a career politician? He started at age 31 in 1774 and with short breaks had high political offices until 1809, i.e. for 35 years. Thats what you normally call a career...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 24, 2021, 12:10:30 PM
Quote from: Zanza on March 24, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
How was e.g. Jefferson not a career politician? He started at age 31 in 1774 and with short breaks had high political offices until 1809, i.e. for 35 years. Thats what you normally call a career...

I think they imply that they didn't pursue a career in politics prior to the revolution, maybe?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 24, 2021, 12:11:41 PM
Quote from: Zanza on March 24, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
How was e.g. Jefferson not a career politician? He started at age 31 in 1774 and with short breaks had high political offices until 1809, i.e. for 35 years. Thats what you normally call a career...

As if anyone could enter politics back then, they were "gentlemen politicians" with an independent wealth separate from their political careers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
 :huh:  Why are we trying to figure out why lying morons lie?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on March 24, 2021, 12:16:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
:huh:  Why are we trying to figure out why lying morons lie?
To demonstrate our self-perception of intellectual superiority in order to feel good about ourselves.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 24, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 24, 2021, 12:10:30 PM
Quote from: Zanza on March 24, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
How was e.g. Jefferson not a career politician? He started at age 31 in 1774 and with short breaks had high political offices until 1809, i.e. for 35 years. Thats what you normally call a career...

I think they imply that they didn't pursue a career in politics prior to the revolution, maybe?


But they were in politics before the Revolution.  At least some of them were.

I honestly find it weird that the GOP has really moved into class warfare.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 24, 2021, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
:huh:  Why are we trying to figure out why lying morons lie?


I do not think they are lying, I think they are simply ignorant.  Hell, I bet half of them believe that the revolution was fought to protect the right to bear arms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2021, 12:25:57 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 24, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
I honestly find it weird that the GOP has really moved into class warfare.

This dude wasn't trying to play the class warfare card, at least not the way I see it.  He was trying to play the brilliant Trump outsider vs. the corrupt deep state establishment card.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 01:47:15 PM
Quote from: Zanza on March 24, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
How was e.g. Jefferson not a career politician? He started at age 31 in 1774 and with short breaks had high political offices until 1809, i.e. for 35 years. Thats what you normally call a career...
You need a bit of context here.  In this thread Syt forwards a lot of memes that some would characterize as potentially misleading.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 01:50:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 24, 2021, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
:huh:  Why are we trying to figure out why lying morons lie?


I do not think they are lying, I think they are simply ignorant.  Hell, I bet half of them believe that the revolution was fought to protect the right to bear arms.
It's hard to know where ignorance ends, lying begins, lying ends, and insanity begins.  These memes spread because people get so emotionally activated by them that their critical thinking gets short-circuited.  It really is engineered insanity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 01:50:39 PM
It really is engineered insanity.

I'm definitely stealing this one.  Is it original, o did you encounter it somewhere?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 08:20:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 01:50:39 PM
It really is engineered insanity.

I'm definitely stealing this one.  Is it original, o did you encounter it somewhere?
Original.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 25, 2021, 02:03:13 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/33Yxyd3h/sfi.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 25, 2021, 03:00:41 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 08:20:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 01:50:39 PM
It really is engineered insanity.

I'm definitely stealing this one.  Is it original, o did you encounter it somewhere?
Original.

Googling turns up an odd F1 campaign a couple years back.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 25, 2021, 06:51:48 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 01:50:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 24, 2021, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
:huh:  Why are we trying to figure out why lying morons lie?


I do not think they are lying, I think they are simply ignorant.  Hell, I bet half of them believe that the revolution was fought to protect the right to bear arms.
It's hard to know where ignorance ends, lying begins, lying ends, and insanity begins.  These memes spread because people get so emotionally activated by them that their critical thinking gets short-circuited.  It really is engineered insanity.

I have a serious problem with this sort of analysis.  My problem is that it may be true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 25, 2021, 08:46:46 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 25, 2021, 03:00:41 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 08:20:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 01:50:39 PM
It really is engineered insanity.

I'm definitely stealing this one.  Is it original, o did you encounter it somewhere?
Original.

Googling turns up an odd F1 campaign a couple years back.
Never heard of it.  Sounds like a stupid marketing slogan that probably died a quick death.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 25, 2021, 09:17:05 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 08:20:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 24, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2021, 01:50:39 PM
It really is engineered insanity.

I'm definitely stealing this one.  Is it original, o did you encounter it somewhere?
Original.

It is a nice play on engineering consent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 28, 2021, 12:37:31 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82400860_10163071387225650_8411785636394041344_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=wZZW1MhCg9wAX9iiu8Q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=482e8afcd0d59ef8671d9491b4ff43b7&oe=6086D42D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2021, 12:42:43 PM
 :lol:  Take a look the fucking mirror you dimwit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 28, 2021, 12:48:56 PM
 :lol: That's awesome.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 28, 2021, 07:26:43 PM
Memester has a valid point, regardless of the irony assuming one of Syt's kinfolk shared it. Though in a sense he is now also part of the media.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 29, 2021, 01:18:51 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160937279_4423979720949047_244858460579144168_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=fRBYh5pJVjgAX-doM5q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=914558ff5e4ae2c3453d213abc4a7cc0&oe=6088944A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 29, 2021, 02:47:26 AM
Maybe they prefer the taste of bleach.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 29, 2021, 07:44:00 AM
Another own goal.  Keep 'em coming Syt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 29, 2021, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 29, 2021, 07:44:00 AM
Another own goal.  Keep 'em coming Syt.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/166439139_289973049155246_9076944026906071589_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pLj7LUhkeCIAX_WhQ4_&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dc73132d192ed3ec0f7e5cfe894d89ab&oe=60874F5F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 29, 2021, 11:43:51 AM
:cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 29, 2021, 12:01:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OSLQH0g.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 29, 2021, 12:02:59 PM
Ah yeah, saw this on r/accidentallyleftwing :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 29, 2021, 12:19:40 PM
I mean when people are talking about teachers they mean public school teachers and that has been paid for by radical socialism since the 18th century. The US was doing radical socialism before the term socialism was even invented.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 29, 2021, 01:59:14 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 29, 2021, 01:18:51 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160937279_4423979720949047_244858460579144168_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=fRBYh5pJVjgAX-doM5q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=914558ff5e4ae2c3453d213abc4a7cc0&oe=6088944A)




"Look, I understand that insanity is part of your identity, trust me I know, and I'm not asking you to give that up.  But could you just hold it in check for 20 minutes while you get a vaccine?  It would really help the rest of us out."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 29, 2021, 02:01:02 PM
Running out of town on a rail...endorsing cancel culture I see.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 29, 2021, 11:49:52 PM
Hey Valmy didn't know that Austin was such a den of debauchery? :P

(https://i.postimg.cc/PqCth5mS/ase.jpg)

The linked article contains a link to the letter that seems to have sparked this "outrage."

QuoteDear Ms. Howe,

I sure enjoyed reading your article today -
How To Stop Critical Race Theory In Your Local Schools: Advice From A School Board Member

We are having issues with our school district in Austin, TX - Leander Independent School District.

Unfortunately, our school board members support CRT and we have been writing letters about the sexually graphic books the language arts curriculum director chose as part of the new culturally diverse equity program and it is falling on deaf ears.

It seems to me this type of content should be illegal to give to minors.
The content of these books are horribly dark and disturbing and include explicit, graphic sexual content such as:

Masturbation
Abortion
Adult/Minor Sexual Relationships
Gang Rape
Rape
Child Rape
Molestation
Substance Abuse
Sexual Abuse
Physical Abuse

These books are NOT academically challenging books that students preparing for college should be reading in school.

Here are a couple of excerpts. What do you think? Is this appropriate for our public schools to be assigning as required language arts curriculum for students 13 years-old to 18 years-old without parental consent?

What We Saw – by Aaron Hartzler - 9th Grade English –Lexi Level 820 (5th Grade reading level)
My finger is trembling as I hold it over the silver track pad. I swallow hard, and click. As the image springs to life, the person holding the camera jumps over the white leather sofa arm onto the couch. Stacey is lying on the chaise that sticks out from the opposite corner of the sectional. Her halter top is missing, but her bra is still on. Her eyes are closed. Dooney is lying next to her, rubbing his hand up and down her stomach, cupping her breasts, laughing. Deacon pulls up her skirt as Kyle leans in and out of the frame over the back of the couch with a red plastic cup and shouts, "Buccaneers!" Dooney buries his face in her breasts, shaking his head side to side and making a motorboat noise with his lips. He slides a hand down her underwear. Dude is she drunk or dead? I recognize the squeak of Randy's voice, his words slurring from behind the camera. He must be filming this with his phone. Greg is there, hooting and pushing Randy, the camera jerking and shaking. I gasp as I pan around the room. There are so many people there. I catch a glimpse of the Tracies, one of the making out with LeRon, the other sitting in an overstuffed chair with a glassy glaze. She looks stoned out of her mind. Some areas are more well lit than others, but the footage is remarkably clear. As Randy swings the camera back to the couch, he gets closer. Dooney is pulling down Stacey's underwear with one hand, the fingers of his other hand already inside her. Randy shouts and giggles hysterically, "Oh my God, Dude!" Greg leans over the couch again, smacking lightly at Stacey's face. "Yo! Anybody home in there?"
When Randy spins the camera back around, Dooney is already on top of Stacey, the belt of his jeans flapping against the side of the couch as he pushes his hips into her. She grunts and moans, eyes stilled closed.

The story continues on, each of the boys graphically taking their turn with her.
Teenage sex, gang rape, videoed gang rape passed around the school and teenage drinking and drug use

Red at the Bone – by Jacqueline Woodson – 11th grade English – Lexi level not available
He waited for Iris to tell him she loved him back, but instead, she reached inside his pants, then into his underwear, and wrapped her hand around him. He bit down hard on his bottom lip, closed his eyes and waited for what came next. He was terrified of what came next. He had only done this to himself. His own Vaselined hand in the bathroom, with the door locked and water running in case he cried out to the images of girls he had only seen fully clothed reimagined naked playing in his head. He had imagined Iris naked, but no matter how tightly he closed his eyes, no matter how fast he moved his hand, her body was never clear. It was though his own imagination waxed over when he tried to see her. Lying beside her, her hand moving slowly, his fingers moving up her belly and beneath her bra, he was grateful that she felt so surprising beneath her clothes. So perfect. When he opened his eyes again, Iris was smiling, that sloe-eyed smile that scared the hell out of him and made him love her more. She pulled his pants and underwear down below his knees, and because he didn't know what else to do, he closed his eyes and let her. Praying silently that she'd stop. Hoping that she wouldn't.

The story continues and describes in detail them having sex, smoking weed and eventually getting pregnant

My Life As a Part-Time Indian – by Arnold Spirit Jr. – 8th & 9th grade English - Lexi level 600 (3rd Grade reading level)
Most guys, no matter what age, get excited about curves and circles. But not me. Don't get me wrong. I like girls and their curves. And I really like women and their curvier curves. I spend hours in the bathroom with a magazine that has one thousand pictures of naked movie stars. Naked woman + right hand = happy happy joy joy Yep, that's right, I admit that I masturbate. I'm proud of it. I'm good at it. I'm ambidextrous. If there were a Professional Masturbators League, I'd be drafted number one and make millions of dollars. And maybe you're thinking, "Well, you really shouldn't be talking about masturbation in public." Well, tough, I'm going to talk about it because EVERYBODY does it. And EVERYBODY likes it. And if God hadn't wanted us to masturbate, then he wouldn't have given us thumbs. So I thank God for my thumbs.

The book has physical abuse to a parent and child, peer to peer sex, substance abuse and a ton of foul language.

In the Dream House – by Carmen Maria Machado – 12th grade English - Lexi level is 600 (3rd Grade reading level
"A week after you get back from Savannah, you are fucking on your bed and you come and she says, "I love you." You are both sweaty; the silicone strap on is still in your body. When dating men, you always loved feeling a cock soften inside of you afterward; now you pant on her chest and slide off and it springs back to where it was, slick and erect but spent just the same." "After this, you ask her to talk to you in a low, raspy stream while she fucks you, and she does; switching effortlessly between English and French, muttering about her cock and how it's filling you up, pushing her hand over your face and grabbing the architecture of your jaw to turn it this way and that. She shaves her cunt smooth, and it glows like the inside of a conch shell. She loves wearing a harness; you suck her off that way and she comes like it's real, bucking and lifting off of the mattress."

The story is sexually graphic with the main character describing her history of sexual abuse. It also has an adult/minor sexual relationship with a pastor and at no point in the store is the inappropriateness or illegality of this relationship mentioned. This book uses a ton of foul language. 

Nowhere Girls – by Amy Reed – 12th grade English – Lexi Level is 750 (4th Grade reading level)
"...a very different girl closes her eyes and let's go, feels the boys head between her legs, painting pleasure on her body with his tongue, just like she taught him."
"Yo freshman nobody. Got her so drunk she couldn't say no. Kinda messy and mostly just laid there but busting a nut is busting a nut."
"Yo chubby girl from school....she got drunk at a party and told me she'd had a crush on me since 6th grade. Fat girls are so easy. Mostly a pity fuck on my [art. She was so grateful."
"I was at a party...There was this punch, and you couldn't even taste the alcohol, so I had no idea how much I was drinking. And then these three really cute guys started talking to me, and I was grateful, you know...I though they were being nice. I didn't know something was wrong until it was too late. He opened the door and told me to get in the car. His voice wasn't nice anymore. He told the others what to do. Only tow of them ended up doing it. The third ran off...I remember everything. I wasn't that drunk. I wish I was. Then I'd have an excuse. I could have fought back maybe, I could have screamed. But it was like I was frozen. I just laid there. I couldn't move. I saw everything. I felt everything. Shit, I can still feel them on top of me. The weigh. They were so heavy. I can smell them. Their BO. The beer on their breath.

The story is sexually graphic, has rape, gang rape, derogatory descriptions of sexual conquests, substance abuse. And, of course, it is full of foul language.

Out of the Darkness – by Ashley Hope Perez – 9th grade English – Lexi level 660 (3rd Grade reading level)
"Shh," he said. He took one of her hands in his and squeezed it. "Come on over here." He pulled her to her feet, close to him. He shifted in his pajamas, and the part of him that made him a man stuck out, reddish purple and frightening. She had never seen one before except on a baby. This was different. He lifted her hand to his mouth and licked it. Then he lowered her hand down and closed it around the hardness. His hand moved hers. His left hand gripped her shoulder, pressing her head tight against the hard, flat plane of his stomach. She watched her hand move back and forth like it didn't belong to her. In the distance, she heard the train pass. A moment later, the thing leaped. Henry's whole body shuddered, and a hot mess lay across her palm and between her fingers. Henry wiped himself quickly with a handkerchief. Then, never letting go of her shoulder, he urged her toward the door. "Come on," he said once it was open. He walked her to the bathroom and then guided her hand to the sink. "There," he said, rinsing her hand and patting it dry. "all better." He walked back to his room like he had merely gone to get a glass of water. In the morning, when her mother asked her to come help her in the kitchen.....
Naomi lay as still as she could. She knew he was standing there, looking down at her. Then the footsteps went back toward the door. She waited a moment, and when she thought surely he had gone back to bed, she opened her eyes and gulped in a breath. Henry was staring right at her. He grinned, "You thought you fooled me, but I fooled you," he said. "I knew you were awake." He closed the door behind him and locked it. He had put locks on all the bedroom doors the week before. When Estella asked him why, he said simply, "It's how a house should be." She hadn't protested. Henry came to the side of her bed and pulled back the covers. Naomi sat up quickly and scrambled backward.
After awhile she heard Henry snoring. She crept to the bathroom, locked the door, and undressed. She scrubbed everywhere he had touched her.

When she is older he has her little 8yo brother tie her boyfriend to a tree and violently rapes her making them both watch. He then unties the boyfriend and kills him in front of them. Lots of racial slurs in this book.

Here are just a few more examples, there are many, many more:

Not Your Perfect Mexican Daughter by Erika L. Sanchez – 9th Grade English - Lexi Level 730 (4th Grade reading level) – blasphemies against the Catholic faith and derogatory statements about Jesus and Christianity. An adult raping a minor is described in great detail, there is drug use, abortion, attempted suicide, and graphic sex. The district spent $26k of taxpayer money on this one.
Kiss Number 8 by Af Venable Colleen – 10thGrade English - Pictures of Christ on the cross with characters in the pews having sexual thoughts of Christ on the cross and judging the altar boys for their looks - complete blasphemy and insulting to those who believe in God. This book is a graphic novel with Sex, Substance Abuse and Foul language.
Honor Girl – by Maggie Thrash – 10th Grade English - Lexi Level 400 (2nd Grade reading level) - A 15 year-old girl goes to the same Christian Summer Camp every year. This summer she has her first sexualexperience with her 19-year-old female camp counselor. ---- It doesn't matter that the camp counselor is female, what matters is it is ILLEGAL to have sex with a minor and this book is written at a second grade reading level.

Porn addiction is one of the fastest growing addictions in the country and it is as addictive as crack cocaine. Unlike other addictive substances, pornographic images can stay in the brain indefinitely. So why is LISD putting porn in their language arts curriculum?  - https://parentsaware.info/

Sexually Explicit Texts Negatively Affect Teen Minds – Our society provides our children with enough sexually charged, profane messages. They don't need it as required reading at school.
Numerous studies on the use of graphic material by students indicate negative psychological effects. The authors of the study strongly suggested that parents needed to restrict their children from seeing or reading sexual content in movies and books.

Dr. Sandra Stotsky Professor emerita in the Dept of Education Reform at the University of Arkansas states that less challenging books are read today and it shows as reading scores continue to fall around the country. She further states that this new curriculum of contemporary fiction is heavy on explicit content, very light on complexity and is creating a generation of students better versed in the mechanics of rape than of sentence structure, vocabulary or literary value."

Any ideas on how we can stop this? It should be illegal. Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,

A very concerned parent of a child in the LISD
https://www.teachparentalrights.com



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 29, 2021, 11:56:15 PM
Meanwhile, in my day many school read (or watched the movie) Christiane F. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_F.#The_book), about a 13 year old girl who became addicted to heroin and became an underage prostitute. (obviously, this was meant as a warning against drug use, and I imagine many if not most of the above stories are intended in a similar aspect)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 29, 2021, 11:56:25 PM
I like how they say it is Austin, Texas a debauched Democratically run city but then have it be Leander ISD, a suburban school district in the traditionally Republican Williamson County. I guess the Republican propaganda people don't know much geography, even in red states.

Anyway this is just the same old thing they have been complaining about forever. Dirty books in school. Your grandkids will deal with it just like your grandparents dealt with it: probably not reading the assignments anyway and reading the cliff notes/wikipedia page.

The tiny bit of Austin that is in Williamson County is served by Leander ISD it is true, but the city government of Austin has nothing to do with what the school board of LISD does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 30, 2021, 12:09:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 29, 2021, 11:56:15 PM
Meanwhile, in my day many school read (or watched the movie) Christiane F. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_F.#The_book), about a 13 year old girl who became addicted to heroin and became an underage prostitute. (obviously, this was meant as a warning against drug use, and I imagine many if not most of the above stories are intended in a similar aspect)

I hear pornographic images are more addictive than heroin. Even in text form. Text images.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2021, 12:10:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 29, 2021, 11:56:25 PMLeander ISD

ISD stands for Imperial Star Destroyer, right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2021, 12:12:34 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 30, 2021, 12:09:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 29, 2021, 11:56:15 PM
Meanwhile, in my day many school read (or watched the movie) Christiane F. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_F.#The_book), about a 13 year old girl who became addicted to heroin and became an underage prostitute. (obviously, this was meant as a warning against drug use, and I imagine many if not most of the above stories are intended in a similar aspect)

I hear pornographic images are more addictive than heroin. Even in text form. Text images.

Well, the book has that too. There's even been a new Amazon Prime series based on it.

I found Die Letzten Kinder von Schewenborn (last children of Schewenborn) more difficult to read as an 11 year old - it deals with the aftermath of nuclear war in a small town in Germany. Radiation sickness, miscarriages and deformations abound!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 30, 2021, 12:12:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 30, 2021, 12:10:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 29, 2021, 11:56:25 PMLeander ISD

ISD stands for Imperial Star Destroyer, right?

Man I wish. My time in AISD would have been much cooler. But unfortunately it just stands for Independent School District.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 30, 2021, 12:13:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 30, 2021, 12:12:34 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 30, 2021, 12:09:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 29, 2021, 11:56:15 PM
Meanwhile, in my day many school read (or watched the movie) Christiane F. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_F.#The_book), about a 13 year old girl who became addicted to heroin and became an underage prostitute. (obviously, this was meant as a warning against drug use, and I imagine many if not most of the above stories are intended in a similar aspect)

I hear pornographic images are more addictive than heroin. Even in text form. Text images.

Well, the book has that too. There's even been a new Amazon Prime series based on it.

I found Die Letzten Kinder von Schewenborn (last children of Schewenborn) more difficult to read as an 11 year old - it deals with the aftermath of nuclear war in a small town in Germany. Radiation sickness, miscarriages and deformations abound!

My God! It is a wonder you all did not become underage prostitutes to feed your porn addictions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 30, 2021, 01:04:05 AM
What are the Lexi Belle levels?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 30, 2021, 03:42:36 AM
Quote from: Jacob on March 29, 2021, 12:01:11 PM
(https://i.ur.com/OSLQH0g.jpg)

Err.... Yes?
:lol:
Really not getting the logic on this one.
Do they seriously believe free means not paid for by anyone in any way?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 30, 2021, 03:46:08 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 30, 2021, 03:42:36 AM
Quote from: Jacob on March 29, 2021, 12:01:11 PM
(https://i.ur.com/OSLQH0g.jpg)

Err.... Yes?
:lol:
Really not getting the logic on this one.
Do they seriously believe free means not paid for by anyone in any way?

Not wanting to look like I am defending these people, but i would prefer these were called "state funded" in common discourse because there ARE people approaching such things as nobody is actually paying for them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 30, 2021, 07:08:46 AM
Obviously not people weighed down under Texas property taxes :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 30, 2021, 12:47:04 PM
A classic.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/72691108_10157497528041236_2967591701662662656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Sc9HvrnF0MsAX85i87U&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9bb6b0017486aab5d60f086333abb024&oe=60871947)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 30, 2021, 02:18:43 PM
The WWII generation voted for the New Deal and a 90% marginal tax rate.

Anyway hating the kids is so tiresome. Like your sister's generation was so damn hard core.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
I wonder what the generation in that second picture would think of people for whom wearing a piece of cloth over their face is too much of a sacrifice during a deadly pandemic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2021, 02:32:52 PM
I think Clint himself is fairly lefty, if not too loud about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
I wonder what the generation in that second picture would think of people for whom wearing a piece of cloth over their face is too much of a sacrifice during a deadly pandemic.


The characters in that film aren't exactly the admirable sort.  Also, unless Syt's sister in in here late 80's it's not her generation depicted in that film.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
I wonder what the generation in that second picture would think of people for whom wearing a piece of cloth over their face is too much of a sacrifice during a deadly pandemic.


The characters in that film aren't exactly the admirable sort.  Also, unless Syt's sister in in here late 80's it's not her generation depicted in that film.
I didn't think she was, and I wasn't speaking specifically of these two characters or actors.  I've just been thinking lately of all my grandparents, and what they lived through.  All of them either served and survived the war, or survived the civilian life during the war, which in Soviet Union wasn't that easy to do on starvation rations.  If any of them were still alive, I wonder what they would think about people finding it too hard to wear masks for a year or two.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
I wonder what the generation in that second picture would think of people for whom wearing a piece of cloth over their face is too much of a sacrifice during a deadly pandemic.

It is likely that a lot of them would have objected to wearing masks.

They weren't far removed from the spanish influenza pandemic, which was much worse than this one, and masks were quite controversial then.

https://untappedcities.com/2020/07/15/the-anti-mask-league-of-1919-the-cultural-battle-of-an-enduring-pandemic/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 30, 2021, 03:16:47 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 30, 2021, 12:47:04 PM
A classic.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/72691108_10157497528041236_2967591701662662656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Sc9HvrnF0MsAX85i87U&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9bb6b0017486aab5d60f086333abb024&oe=60871947)


Well yes, many younger people, can't work a mere 40 hours per week.  That is a luxury few have actually.   But they are pretty good at identifying their sexuality, at least better than the repressed religious right. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 30, 2021, 03:30:33 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
I wonder what the generation in that second picture would think of people for whom wearing a piece of cloth over their face is too much of a sacrifice during a deadly pandemic.

It is likely that a lot of them would have objected to wearing masks.

They weren't far removed from the spanish influenza pandemic, which was much worse than this one, and masks were quite controversial then.

https://untappedcities.com/2020/07/15/the-anti-mask-league-of-1919-the-cultural-battle-of-an-enduring-pandemic/

Man, that's a crappy article.  Not only is it poorly written ("The flu...killed anywhere from 17 million to 50 million people."  It didn't kill anywhere from 17 to 50 million, it killed as many as it killed.  Estimates of the death toll may vary, but the number of people killed did not vary, except to increase over time) but its references don't say what it claims (the hyperlink to "impressive membership" contains no mention if membership).

I agree that there were a lot of people opposed to masks in 1918 (not the WW2 generation, but telling) but that just tells us that people were as selfish in 1918 as in 2020.  That's no surprise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 04:47:19 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
I wonder what the generation in that second picture would think of people for whom wearing a piece of cloth over their face is too much of a sacrifice during a deadly pandemic.


The characters in that film aren't exactly the admirable sort.  Also, unless Syt's sister in in here late 80's it's not her generation depicted in that film.
I didn't think she was, and I wasn't speaking specifically of these two characters or actors.  I've just been thinking lately of all my grandparents, and what they lived through.  All of them either served and survived the war, or survived the civilian life during the war, which in Soviet Union wasn't that easy to do on starvation rations.  If any of them were still alive, I wonder what they would think about people finding it too hard to wear masks for a year or two.


I've thought about this as well, and even brought it up a few times on Facebook.  Never got a response from conservatives.  Obviously, your grandparents and my grandparents had different experiences.  Neither of my grandfather's served (one was too old and held draft exempt job and the other couldn't serve because of heart scarring something that later killed him),  My Grandmother worked in a boot factory and I don't know what my other grandmother did.  Still, nobody starved and nobody was in danger of starving.  There was rationing of food and gasoline, shortages of all sorts, higher taxes, on the coasts there were blackouts. People didn't starve, but the whole thing was very inconvenient.  Yet all of this was much more arduous than wearing a face mask.

To be honest, I don't know why so many modern conservatives took this course.  It makes no sense to me.  I don't understand why Trump starting undercutting the CDC or why Tucker Carlson comes on every night saying that vaccines are dangerous.  The WW2 analogies work for me, more people have died from Covid than did in WW2.  Hell, some of the people who survived WW2 have since died of Covid.  This is a national emergency, I don't know why so many pretend it isn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on March 30, 2021, 05:00:48 PM
Covid doesn't have oil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 04:47:19 PM
This is a national emergency, I don't know why so many pretend it isn't.

Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.

Spend a few years fighting the nazis who are trying to take over europe? That makes sense. Endure a year of lockdowns so that we can stop the spread of a disease that kills less than 1% of the people it infects? That seems like bullshit to me, and in a society filled with morons that can only see things in extremes, you push too far in one direction and people will gravitate toward thinking everything is a sham and we need to go 100% the other way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 04:47:19 PM
To be honest, I don't know why so many modern conservatives took this course.  It makes no sense to me.
I suspect that the Russians had some role in it.  An asteroid may be heading for the earth, and Russians would spread misinformation while the world debated a solution if they thought it would be to their benefit, and their useful idiots would pick it up and run with it.  I'm not saying that they were the most important reason behind it, and we should not discount domestic stupidity, but I do think that Russian psychopaths in charge of informational warfare with the West realized how stressful a bad response to the pandemic would be to their enemies, and did their part to ensure that the response would be bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 06:13:22 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.
:hmm: Okay, I think that's a pretty definitive jump the shark moment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 30, 2021, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.

Covid isn't that bad? More than half a million deaths in the US isn't "that bad"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 30, 2021, 06:19:34 PM
Well, we have been talking about Spanish flu and WW2.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on March 30, 2021, 06:19:55 PM
Dorsey for Douche has gotta douche.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2021, 07:54:16 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 06:13:22 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.
:hmm: Okay, I think that's a pretty definitive jump the shark moment.

You just lost me too Fredo.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on March 30, 2021, 08:09:11 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 04:47:19 PM
This is a national emergency, I don't know why so many pretend it isn't.

Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.

...

:wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 30, 2021, 09:28:57 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 04:47:19 PM
This is a national emergency, I don't know why so many pretend it isn't.

Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.

Spend a few years fighting the nazis who are trying to take over europe? That makes sense. Endure a year of lockdowns so that we can stop the spread of a disease that kills less than 1% of the people it infects? That seems like bullshit to me, and in a society filled with morons that can only see things in extremes, you push too far in one direction and people will gravitate toward thinking everything is a sham and we need to go 100% the other way.

Less than 1% of a disease that is spreading rapidly is pretty serious. I think the excess death rates around the world speak to that. Why is that bullshit? And remember it is not 1% for everybody, some populations it is much higher than 1%.

But I can certainly see how some of the way people responded over-zealously. Fear mongering and over-reaction is certainly common in a situation like this. Bureaucracies over-reacting and human foibles abound. But that is part of humans running things. Why that means there is some conspiracy to control everybody is quite a leap...unless you consider all of human civilization, and plenty before civilization, to be a conspiracy to control everybody and fair enough. I had no idea you were an anarchist Dorsey.

I have often said what you are saying is not untrue. I just do not see the vast sinister evil of humanity being imperfect that you seem to. People are not all good or all evil. Fuckups will happen especially when infectious diseases are concerned.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 30, 2021, 11:46:32 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 30, 2021, 03:46:08 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 30, 2021, 03:42:36 AM
Quote from: Jacob on March 29, 2021, 12:01:11 PM
(https://i.ur.com/OSLQH0g.jpg)

Err.... Yes?
:lol:
Really not getting the logic on this one.
Do they seriously believe free means not paid for by anyone in any way?

Not wanting to look like I am defending these people, but i would prefer these were called "state funded" in common discourse because there ARE people approaching such things as nobody is actually paying for them.

From the Conservative side right?
As I really don't think anyone is dumb enough to believe  government services aren't funded in some way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on March 31, 2021, 07:53:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 04:47:19 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
I wonder what the generation in that second picture would think of people for whom wearing a piece of cloth over their face is too much of a sacrifice during a deadly pandemic.


The characters in that film aren't exactly the admirable sort.  Also, unless Syt's sister in in here late 80's it's not her generation depicted in that film.
I didn't think she was, and I wasn't speaking specifically of these two characters or actors.  I've just been thinking lately of all my grandparents, and what they lived through.  All of them either served and survived the war, or survived the civilian life during the war, which in Soviet Union wasn't that easy to do on starvation rations.  If any of them were still alive, I wonder what they would think about people finding it too hard to wear masks for a year or two.


I've thought about this as well, and even brought it up a few times on Facebook.  Never got a response from conservatives.  Obviously, your grandparents and my grandparents had different experiences.  Neither of my grandfather's served (one was too old and held draft exempt job and the other couldn't serve because of heart scarring something that later killed him),  My Grandmother worked in a boot factory and I don't know what my other grandmother did.  Still, nobody starved and nobody was in danger of starving.  There was rationing of food and gasoline, shortages of all sorts, higher taxes, on the coasts there were blackouts. People didn't starve, but the whole thing was very inconvenient.  Yet all of this was much more arduous than wearing a face mask.

To be honest, I don't know why so many modern conservatives took this course.  It makes no sense to me.  I don't understand why Trump starting undercutting the CDC or why Tucker Carlson comes on every night saying that vaccines are dangerous.  The WW2 analogies work for me, more people have died from Covid than did in WW2.  Hell, some of the people who survived WW2 have since died of Covid.  This is a national emergency, I don't know why so many pretend it isn't.

One thing that I noticed about my grandparents and what appears pretty common among my grandparent's generation - who experienced the dirty 30s and WW2 - is just how addicted to saving stuff they were.

My grandparents saved every damn thing - bits of string, rubber bands, rags. All neatly labelled and packaged, not in a chaotic hoarding sense. They kept large stocks of non-perishable goods on hand.

It was pretty clear they lived through a time when you could not get, say, a rubber band when you needed one, and that this left its mark.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 10:27:39 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2021, 06:13:22 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.
:hmm: Okay, I think that's a pretty definitive jump the shark moment.

I just got back from my "bachelor party" in Las Vegas. The only other participant was my best man/climbing partner. We never ate in a restaurant, never had a drop of alcohol, didn't see a show. All we did was get up at 6am every morning to climb, and then climbed until the sun set and came home to get ready to climb the next day.

Yes we flew into Vegas and that had risk. But local climbing was closed last spring as well. Here are a couple of pictures I took while climbing--the open nature of the desert highlights just how stupid the panic was. The first picture is the climbing area from the parking lot. As you can see, it is a massive expanse of rock.

The second picture is when we topped out at about 4pm. I put an arrow to the parking lot--as you can see, the number of cars for the amount of climbing area is miniscule (there were probably more earlier in the day, but the ratio was always trivial). You can see Vegas in the background.

The place where we were climbing, like almost all climbing areas, was closed last spring. Las Vegas has a couple million people in its metro area: people who wanted to go climb were not allowed to enter the wide open space I was in, but confined to the metro area and presumably used parks and other open space there shared by all the other residents.

It isn't just about climbing of course. In rural Georgia I actually saw a police officer stationed at a trailhead to make sure no one accessed it. In many (most?) places boat ramps were closed, church services - even outdoors - were not allowed in some cases, and there were some interesting discussion of whether bird watchers should be arrested. You want to know why there is strong pushback against any type of restriction now, you should begin with this stuff.

(https://i.postimg.cc/7LfVsVH0/IMG-1149.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PLnYN185)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hjH70kMQ/Inked-IMG-1148-LI.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VrW6fHxz)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 10:38:59 AM
Quote from: Jacob on March 30, 2021, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.

Covid isn't that bad? More than half a million deaths in the US isn't "that bad"?

The cost of the cure has to be measured against the disease. I don't think I'm out on a limb to suggest that the physical or emotional well being of most people the past year has been negatively affected by covid countermeasures.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on March 31, 2021, 10:40:02 AM
I hope one day you get over the fact you couldn't go climbing for ~6 months.

My daughter still can't swim.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on March 31, 2021, 10:48:35 AM
Jesus H. Christ.

Lets go out on a limb and suggest that the physical and emotional well being of half a million dead people has been negatively effected. Also the physical and emotional well being of about 90 million people who actually got COVID but did not die from it. And the physical and emotional well being of all the family of those people - which now we are talking about 100% of people.

And how much worse all that would have been if we had listened to people who really, really want to go rock climbing, and what....double? Triple? Quadruple those numbers of dead or seriously injured?

WTF?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 10:57:28 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 31, 2021, 10:48:35 AM
Jesus H. Christ.

Lets go out on a limb and suggest that the physical and emotional well being of half a million dead people has been negatively effected. Also the physical and emotional well being of about 90 million people who actually got COVID but did not die from it. And the physical and emotional well being of all the family of those people - which now we are talking about 100% of people.

And how much worse all that would have been if we had listened to people who really, really want to go rock climbing, and what....double? Triple? Quadruple those numbers of dead or seriously injured?

WTF?

The 90 million that got covid and the half a million people that died are irrelevant--rock climbing was shut down and they still got covid and / or died. It seems highly unlikely those numbers could quadruple at least as they would then exceed the total US population.

The point isn't just rock climbing. It is rock climbing and all the other things that people care about that got shut down pointlessly, and the way that currently ties into people refusing to get the vaccine or wear masks.

I wonder if anyone back in March / April of last year was saying, "the rules that we are coming up with are not sustainable, and are not rational, and are going to result in people rejecting rational precautions down the road."  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on March 31, 2021, 11:05:40 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 10:57:28 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 31, 2021, 10:48:35 AM
Jesus H. Christ.

Lets go out on a limb and suggest that the physical and emotional well being of half a million dead people has been negatively effected. Also the physical and emotional well being of about 90 million people who actually got COVID but did not die from it. And the physical and emotional well being of all the family of those people - which now we are talking about 100% of people.

And how much worse all that would have been if we had listened to people who really, really want to go rock climbing, and what....double? Triple? Quadruple those numbers of dead or seriously injured?

WTF?

The 90 million that got covid and the half a million people that died are irrelevant--rock climbing was shut down and they still got covid and / or died. It seems highly unlikely those numbers could quadruple at least as they would then exceed the total US population.

The point isn't just rock climbing. It is rock climbing and all the other things that people care about that got shut down pointlessly, and the way that currently ties into people refusing to get the vaccine or wear masks.

I wonder if anyone back in March / April of last year was saying, "the rules that we are coming up with are not sustainable, and are not rational, and are going to result in people rejecting rational precautions down the road."  :hmm:

Horseshit.

You said, specifically, that "this isn't that bad". The "this" being the epidemic.

You keep referencing rock climbing, then immediately pointing out that it isn't about "just" rock climbing. This seems like a way for you to demand that anyone interested in controlling for an epidemic do so while comparing to your singular example of a lockdown that seems silly, while dismissing the actual millions effected adversely, since they would all be dead rock climbing or not.

I wonder if you can ever think about anything outside of carefully constructed strawmen that you can then crow about how brilliant you are for predicting that people don't like lockdowns?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on March 31, 2021, 11:07:07 AM
You know Dorsey, it's actually good that you post your "thoughts". I always wondered about the inner working of covidiots and why they reach the conclusions they reach.

I guess in the end it's just lack of empathy/solidarity and selfishness. I figured as much, but it comforts my choice to leave retail pharmacy and just work from home. I've tried/given enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 11:24:35 AM
For the record Fredo, my objection is not based on your belief that emotional wellbeing/rock climbing is more important than deaths.  That's not a popular point of view, but it's a point of view.

Rather it's based on your statement about politicians wanting to control people.  That's verging right into QAnon/hoaxer/Karen territory.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 31, 2021, 11:31:41 AM
To be fair, I think shutting down things like rock climbing in the middle of nowhere and back-country trails and the like is pointless and just increases all around misery. Same thing with the reports we've heard of people getting in trouble for sitting by themselves on a park bench or whatever.

In the beginning of the pandemic when we didn't know much, I can see the point. And I guess in places where they lack the institutional wherewithal to deal in anything but absolute binaries (shut down everything or shut down nothing) it makes a bit of sense. But IMO at this point, when we know that the risk of transmission is very low outdoors when people are reasonably spaced out, I agree there's little to no point in shutting down places like that.

That doesn't change the fact that Dorsey presented his argument in a way seemingly designed to make him come across as extremely callous, self-centered, and ignorant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 31, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
The problem is that those outdoor spaces can become very crowded - hence the reason for shutting them down.  The Chief outside Squamish is a very good example. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 31, 2021, 11:05:40 AM

Horseshit.

You said, specifically, that "this isn't that bad". The "this" being the epidemic.

Compared to the countermeasures? Absolutely it isn't.

Quote
You keep referencing rock climbing, then immediately pointing out that it isn't about "just" rock climbing. This seems like a way for you to demand that anyone interested in controlling for an epidemic do so while comparing to your singular example of a lockdown that seems silly, while dismissing the actual millions effected adversely, since they would all be dead rock climbing or not.

I wonder if you can ever think about anything outside of carefully constructed strawmen that you can then crow about how brilliant you are for predicting that people don't like lockdowns?

Is it a strawman to say that in a free society--absent a pandemic--people should be free to hike, and camp, and go to church, and to protest, and to go to bars, and go to the beach, and launch their boats in the ocean, and otherwise congregate socially?

I just came back from Vegas. Check out their flight arrivals tomorrow:

https://www.mccarran.com/Flights/Arrivals

I'm not going to count, but it is probably over 100. 15 just from Atlanta. There are signs all over the airport welcoming people back and saying they are glad to have you back in Vegas.

You know the main attractions to Vegas are indoors. Casinos, bars, nightclubs, and shows. That is a democratic city in a democratic state. Apparently a few churches held services in casinos in Nevada because the casinos had less restrictions on the number of people that could enter.

My experience is that I could climb at an indoor gym or do things like go bowling before the main Georgia climbing area opened. The Appalachian Trail was closed for a really long time--I'm not sure the shelters on it have even reopened yet.

You guys can say I jumped the shark on talking about shills and self important politicians, but these decisions aren't based on preventing covid. They are financial and political. It probably won't be too hard to find republican politicians that complained about BLM protests and covid spread, or democratic ones that were cool with BLM but criticized lockdown protests.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 31, 2021, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 31, 2021, 07:53:04 AM


One thing that I noticed about my grandparents and what appears pretty common among my grandparent's generation - who experienced the dirty 30s and WW2 - is just how addicted to saving stuff they were.

My grandparents saved every damn thing - bits of string, rubber bands, rags. All neatly labelled and packaged, not in a chaotic hoarding sense. They kept large stocks of non-perishable goods on hand.

It was pretty clear they lived through a time when you could not get, say, a rubber band when you needed one, and that this left its mark.

Yeah, my grandparents did that sort of thing too.  They absolutely did not trust the stock market or banks.  When my Grandmother died there was something like 300000 bucks hidden away.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 31, 2021, 11:42:36 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 31, 2021, 10:40:02 AM
My daughter still can't swim.

See I think there are some real arguments to have about what to shut down and what to allow to go ahead with proper protocols.

Out here in BC, stuff like kids sports has been allowed to go ahead (with various protocols in place)  and we haven't shut down any trails or anything either. So Dorsey could've gone rock climbing and your daughter could've gone swimming if you were in BC. And IMO, society wide there are real and valuable mental health benefits there, benefits that shouldn't be sacrificed lightly. And, as far as I know, we haven't had any infections as a result of any of those type of activities - it's mostly been care homes, weddings, people going to bars and restaurants, gyms, and that sort of thing. Basically indoor gatherings of any sort.

So yeah, I think there's a balance to be struck there. And I think decision-makers aren't always going to get it exactly right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on March 31, 2021, 11:50:28 AM
Quote from: Jacob on March 31, 2021, 11:42:36 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 31, 2021, 10:40:02 AM
My daughter still can't swim.

See I think there are some real arguments to have about what to shut down and what to allow to go ahead with proper protocols.

Out here in BC, stuff like kids sports has been allowed to go ahead (with various protocols in place)  and we haven't shut down any trails or anything either. So Dorsey could've gone rock climbing and your daughter could've gone swimming if you were in BC. And IMO, society wide there are real and valuable mental health benefits there, benefits that shouldn't be sacrificed lightly. And, as far as I know, we haven't had any infections as a result of any of those type of activities - it's mostly been care homes, weddings, people going to bars and restaurants, gyms, and that sort of thing. Basically indoor gatherings of any sort.

So yeah, I think there's a balance to be struck there. And I think decision-makers aren't always going to get it exactly right.


Indeed. It is an interesting debate to have for sure.

Should rock climbing be restricted? Maybe not - but that argument has to be made on the basis of rock climbing, alone. Not as some idiotic proxy for the lockdown in general. It is the classic fallacy of moving from the specific to the general.

Should hiking trails be shut down? Hell if I know. I can imagine plenty that would be perfectly fine to be open. I can also think of plenty where the hikers are very close to one another, and the trails are extremely crowded, and when we didn't really know how easily the virus transmistted, reasonable arguments could be made about whey they ought to be shut down.

But these insanely specific examples with the implicit demand that they be extended to the general case, is just bullshit. It betrays that there isn't really an honest argument being made.

Look at this picture of the parking lot fromthe top of this climbing rock! It so ridiculous that this might be restricted, and this PROVES that my argument that lockdowns in general are bullshit were totally correct!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 11:53:15 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 11:41:21 AM
You guys can say I jumped the shark on talking about shills and self important politicians, but these decisions aren't based on preventing covid. They are financial and political. It probably won't be too hard to find republican politicians that complained about BLM protests and covid spread, or democratic ones that were cool with BLM but criticized lockdown protests.

Oh well
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 31, 2021, 11:58:03 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 31, 2021, 11:50:28 AM
Indeed. It is an interesting debate to have for sure.

Should rock climbing be restricted? Maybe not - but that argument has to be made on the basis of rock climbing, alone. Not as some idiotic proxy for the lockdown in general. It is the classic fallacy of moving from the specific to the general.

Should hiking trails be shut down? Hell if I know. I can imagine plenty that would be perfectly fine to be open. I can also think of plenty where the hikers are very close to one another, and the trails are extremely crowded, and when we didn't really know how easily the virus transmistted, reasonable arguments could be made about whey they ought to be shut down.

Yeah. Reasonable people can reasonably differ on where exactly the line should be drawn, and our knowledge changed over time as well. Ideally the discussion is being had calmly and professionally, and without heavy politicizing influencing the decision-making...

QuoteBut these insanely specific examples with the implicit demand that they be extended to the general case, is just bullshit. It betrays that there isn't really an honest argument being made.

Look at this picture of the parking lot fromthe top of this climbing rock! It so ridiculous that this might be restricted, and this PROVES that my argument that lockdowns in general are bullshit were totally correct!

Agreed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 11:24:35 AM
Rather it's based on your statement about politicians wanting to control people.  That's verging right into QAnon/hoaxer/Karen territory.

Apparently if you are visiting Nevada, the brothels are closed but massage and spa parlors are open. That screams politics and general disfavor of brothels rather than a science based assessment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 31, 2021, 12:06:52 PM
Does your fiancee know you looked into that?  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 11:24:35 AM
Rather it's based on your statement about politicians wanting to control people.  That's verging right into QAnon/hoaxer/Karen territory.

Apparently if you are visiting Nevada, the brothels are closed but massage and spa parlors are open. That screams politics and general disfavor of brothels rather than a science based assessment.

Let's go back to the starting point.

Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 04:47:19 PM
This is a national emergency, I don't know why so many pretend it isn't.

Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.

So if I follow your line of reasoning, your saying the fact that brothels are closed and casinos open in Nevada shows that covid is not a national emergency?

I will admit that I misread that post first time around.  I thought you were saying *all* restrictions were a result of politicians wanting to control. 

But as a minor digression on that particular point, it doesn't make a lot of sense to view the decision to close brothels as motivated by the desire to control, if by desire to control you mean the church lady/prohibitionist/outlaw sinful acts sense.  If state politicians thought brothels were sinful they could outlaw brothels.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 12:17:08 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 31, 2021, 12:06:52 PM
Does your fiancee know you looked into that?  :ph34r:

I didn't. I just googled an article of what was open and closed in Nevada. Besides my climbing buddy, and at grocery stores, I'm not sure I got within 6 feet of another person the whole trip once we left the airport.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 12:29:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 11:24:35 AM
Rather it's based on your statement about politicians wanting to control people.  That's verging right into QAnon/hoaxer/Karen territory.

Apparently if you are visiting Nevada, the brothels are closed but massage and spa parlors are open. That screams politics and general disfavor of brothels rather than a science based assessment.

Let's go back to the starting point.

Quote from: alfred russel on March 30, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 30, 2021, 04:47:19 PM
This is a national emergency, I don't know why so many pretend it isn't.

Because it isn't that bad and it is transparently being used to control behaviors by shrills and self important politicians.

So if I follow your line of reasoning, your saying the fact that brothels are closed and casinos open in Nevada shows that covid is not a national emergency?

I will admit that I misread that post first time around.  I thought you were saying *all* restrictions were a result of politicians wanting to control. 

But as a minor digression on that particular point, it doesn't make a lot of sense to view the decision to close brothels as motivated by the desire to control, if by desire to control you mean the church lady/prohibitionist/outlaw sinful acts sense.  If state politicians thought brothels were sinful they could outlaw brothels.

I wasn't disputing this as a national emergency, I agree that it is, I was explaining to Raz why so many act as though it isn't. To use another tortured analogy (perhaps my worst ever), if you recommend people having a heart attack to take beta blockers and cut off their leg, they may have better outcomes following your advice than ignoring it. But cutting off the leg is so transparently dumb they may stop listening to you altogether.

It isn't hard to see why the brothels are closed. They are not significant financial contributors to the Nevada economy, they are "wild and lawless places" in the public perception, and in the era of covid if they were open they would put at risk the entire enterprise of reopening casinos, bars and shows which are vital to the economy. This may also get some support for those that want them closed regardless. So shutting them down is really about political prioritization versus any scientific risk assessment.

The same reason casinos reopened with less space restrictions than churches. The people implementing the political decisions probably don't hate religion / want to really shut churches down: but for a variety of reasons casinos were favored.

Or in a more extreme example why indoor climbing gyms in Georgia reopened before the main outdoor climbing destination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 12:35:42 PM
A little schizo Fredo.

If you agree with the reasoning of people who don't think it's a national emergency, don't you also have to think it's not a national emergency?

Maybe I'm missing something. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 12:43:05 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 31, 2021, 11:50:28 AM

Look at this picture of the parking lot fromthe top of this climbing rock! It so ridiculous that this might be restricted, and this PROVES that my argument that lockdowns in general are bullshit were totally correct!

That isn't a fair summary of anything I've been saying.

There are many climbers in Las Vegas. There was a shut down of where I was climbing. Those climbers were not allowed to drive out of the city with millions of people to visit an area that is extremely socially distanced post lockdown. Because they didn't leave the city to climb, they presumably were using the same overcrowded urban spaces as a couple million other residents of Las Vegas.

There are much more crowded climbing and hiking and camping areas of course. There is an argument to controlling access to some of those points (though I doubt many are more crowded than the indoor gyms that are now open). But look at the picture of the desert! You have a massive amount of open space, and a relatively densely populated space of the city. Effectively confining everyone to that city and not using the empty space is not only counterproductive in terms of people's well being, it is counter productive to controlling covid's spread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 12:50:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 12:35:42 PM
A little schizo Fredo.

If you agree with the reasoning of people who don't think it's a national emergency, don't you also have to think it's not a national emergency?

Maybe I'm missing something.

I honestly feel like 100% of people think I'm evil on covid.

There are places out in the sticks where I am like the only person in the establishment that is wearing a mask. I tell people in Atlanta/at work what I've been doing and they think I'm a covid denier (I've learned to keep my mouth shut - it is probably analogous to languish in attitude).

My points I was making back in March / April: 1) the lockdowns are going too far, and 2) are not sustainable. 3) Many people are going to respond by rejecting reasonable covid advice. 4) that is bad because covid is real (in addition to excessive lockdowns making life suck more than needed).

I was responding to raz about why people think 3, which is because of 1 and 2.

But while I agree with 1 and 2, I still think 4.




Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 03:01:22 PM
How many people do you know that think that way?

How many people do you know who a) accept covid is real and dangerous, b) some level of restriction is necessary but because of c) restrictions that they feel are illogical, choose to d) not obey restrictions which they feel *are* necessary?

"I think masks in supermarkets are great, but because the governor said I can't go to a nightclub, I'm going to demask in the supermarket too."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 31, 2021, 03:30:15 PM
I think he's saying some people react to c by rejecting a and b.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 31, 2021, 03:34:43 PM
I think it's reasonable to note that compliance budget is limited, and should be used wisely.  That sentence I quoted, though, about Covid not being that bad, and that politicians are transparently trying to control people, is just nuts, and has nothing to do with this.  It is possible that politicians may just not be making the perfect decisions in general, and certainly not in a situation like global pandemic, without having a goal to control your life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 31, 2021, 03:30:15 PM
I think he's saying some people react to c by rejecting a and b.

Exactly.

Which I get is illogical but isn't uncommon. Some large percentage of Americans believe global warming is a lie. Probably an absolute majority in rural areas. That obviously is not an opinion carefully developed from research, but probably a reaction against being told gas prices may go up and it isn't cool that they are driving / aspire to drive a big truck with giant tires. And with the message from scientists that want to take their guns in all liklihood.

You want to get Cooter to wear a mask and socially distance when he visits the gas station for lunch, passing a cop blocking a hiking trail on the way in is probably not a great way to convince him. He is going to decide it is all bullshit and go about his business as before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 04:07:20 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 04:02:00 PM
Exactly.

Which I get is illogical but isn't uncommon. Some large percentage of Americans believe global warming is a lie. Probably an absolute majority in rural areas. That obviously is not an opinion carefully developed from research, but probably a reaction against being told gas prices may go up and it isn't cool that they are driving / aspire to drive a big truck with giant tires. And with the message from scientists that want to take their guns in all liklihood.

You want to get Cooter to wear a mask and socially distance when he visits the gas station for lunch, passing a cop blocking a hiking trail on the way in is probably not a great way to convince him. He is going to decide it is all bullshit and go about his business as before.

But we're not talking about convincing Cooter.  What you agreed to is a situation in which Cooter used to be convinced, but unconvinced himself because he couldn't go hiking.  I maintain that does not exist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 04:59:26 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 04:07:20 PM
But we're not talking about convincing Cooter.  What you agreed to is a situation in which Cooter used to be convinced, but unconvinced himself because he couldn't go hiking.  I maintain that does not exist.

I disagree.

Cooter isn't registering consistent opinions on a daily basis, with deep thinking backing up his thoughts and actions. But in the aggregate, this is what I've seen:

-exactly 12 months ago, the streets were virtually empty. Atlanta was basically a ghost town and the normally crowded interstates were empty. It was very eerie. The rest of Georgia is less crowded but the roads outside the city were also much less crowded than normal.
-today, the roads are back to their normally congested selves, and in rural areas normal life has resumed to a significant extent.

Somewhere along the way a large number of people that thought "this china virus sure sounds bad, I better stay home and keep safe" decided it was all bullshit and normal life was cool. I don't think that process was triggered just by hiking (obviously), but I do think it was triggered by excessive demands in the early days.

I was saying this back in March of last year: if you burden people with too many unsustainable rules, it threatens to undermine the entire system of prevention.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 06:17:39 PM
If what you say is true, shouldn't we see less compliance in places where restrictions have been more strict?  And shouldn't it work the other way as well?  Shouldn't people who live places like Texas react to the complete lifting of restrictions by saying "gosh, that's too much, I'm going to wear a mask because I know covid is lethal?"

I think a more reasonable dynamic is herd behavior and tipping points.  People look to people around them to decide how much prevention is appropriate.  So for example in Georgia as more and more people say "what the fuck I'm going maskless,"  more and more people will join.

A corrolary to that is people segregate.  They find places where no one else is masking to hang out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 06:48:58 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 06:17:39 PM
If what you say is true, shouldn't we see less compliance in places where restrictions have been more strict?  And shouldn't it work the other way as well?  Shouldn't people who live places like Texas react to the complete lifting of restrictions by saying "gosh, that's too much, I'm going to wear a mask because I know covid is lethal?"


Flip this around...how much of a link is there really between government restrictions in the US at this point and covid spread?

Do you remember in the way distant past of early this month? When Texas caused national (and some international) shock and horror by lifting all of its covid restrictions and going 100% open?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/opinion/coronavirus-masks.html

Paul Krugman wrote "I don't know how many people will die unnecessarily because the governor of Texas has decided that ignoring the science and end the mask requirement is a good way to own the libs. But the number won't be zero."

So at the end of the month, how is the body count in Texas looking? Cases per 100k of population in the past 7 days:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

1. Michigan 54
2. New York 51
3. New Jersey 50
4. Connecticut 38
5. Rhode Island 33
....
34. Texas 13

There are no states that have kept up the restrictions over the past year. The system wasn't sustainable, and it has broken down everywhere.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 07:06:23 PM
That's off point.  We were talkiing about a relationship between restrictions and compliance, not between restrictions and deaths.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 07:12:33 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 07:06:23 PM
That's off point.  We were talkiing about a relationship between restrictions and compliance, not between restrictions and deaths.

If at this point restrictions are related to activities that contribute to spread, and completely removing all of them at the state level results in...cases going down and cases below the national average...Doesn't that open up an argument that restrictions have lost relevance in the population?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 07:12:33 PM
If at this point restrictions are related to activities that contribute to spread, and completely removing all of them at the state level results in...cases going down and cases below the national average...Doesn't that open up an argument that restrictions have lost relevance in the population?

I still don't see how this relates to what we were talking about.  It seems like you're trying to slip in an argument for noncompliance, which gets us back to my schizo comment.  If you want to argue noncompliance is great and more people should do it, knock yourself out, but it doesn't relate to your claim that overly harsh restrictions caused people to rebel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 07:37:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 07:25:48 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 07:12:33 PM
If at this point restrictions are related to activities that contribute to spread, and completely removing all of them at the state level results in...cases going down and cases below the national average...Doesn't that open up an argument that restrictions have lost relevance in the population?

I still don't see how this relates to what we were talking about.  It seems like you're trying to slip in an argument for noncompliance, which gets us back to my schizo comment.  If you want to argue noncompliance is great and more people should do it, knock yourself out, but it doesn't relate to your claim that overly harsh restrictions caused people to rebel.

I'm certainly not trying to slip in an argument for noncompliance!

I am (and have always been) in favor of compliance with reasonable and balanced restrictions. Wearing masks makes sense. Restricting mass gatherings, especially indoors, also makes sense.

Closing rural hiking trails and giving citations to bird watchers is stupid.

The point I was making with Texas: Texas removes all of its restrictions and if anything its situation improves / post removal it is in the lower half of states in terms of cases per capita. I'm guessing the improvement is not related to the removal of state restrictions, but does give evidence that state level restrictions have lost meaning for much of the population and people are generally doing what they think is appropriate/want.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 07:48:22 PM
Well no Fredo, the relative death rate in Texas doesn't give us any evidence that "state level restrictions have lost meaning for much of the population."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 31, 2021, 08:23:04 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 06:48:58 PM
Paul Krugman wrote "I don't know how many people will die unnecessarily because the governor of Texas has decided that ignoring the science and end the mask requirement is a good way to own the libs. But the number won't be zero."

So at the end of the month, how is the body count in Texas looking? Cases per 100k of population in the past 7 days:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

1. Michigan 54
2. New York 51
3. New Jersey 50
4. Connecticut 38
5. Rhode Island 33
....
34. Texas 13

Krugman said deaths.
Last 7 day chart for deaths is here: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100klast7days
Texas is #2 after California.
Even adjusted for population they are #6.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 31, 2021, 08:36:01 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 31, 2021, 08:23:04 PM
Krugman said deaths.
Last 7 day chart for deaths is here: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100klast7days
Texas is #2 after California.
Even adjusted for population they are #6.

Rather ironic that the state with the worst death rate is the State of Dorsey, no?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 09:15:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 07:48:22 PM
Well no Fredo, the relative death rate in Texas doesn't give us any evidence that "state level restrictions have lost meaning for much of the population."

Yister,

You are totally missing the point here. Socially distancing, avoiding indoor spaces, wearing a mask, etc. all contribute to stopping the spread. The question is to the extent that government restrictions are preventing the spread vs. other factors.

Texas removing all restrictions and cases going down and being in the lower half of the country is a strong indictor that restrictions have much less influence than voluntary compliance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 09:18:29 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 31, 2021, 08:23:04 PM

Krugman said deaths.
Last 7 day chart for deaths is here: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100klast7days
Texas is #2 after California.
Even adjusted for population they are #6.

LOL. MM, that is a fundamentally dishonest analysis. Death is a lagging indicator, the Texas non policy went into effect at the beginning of the month, and when cases were quite high.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 10:42:59 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 09:15:32 PM
Yister,

You are totally missing the point here. Socially distancing, avoiding indoor spaces, wearing a mask, etc. all contribute to stopping the spread. The question is to the extent that government restrictions are preventing the spread vs. other factors.

Texas removing all restrictions and cases going down and being in the lower half of the country is a strong indictor that restrictions have much less influence than voluntary compliance.

Fredo, you are totally missing the point here.  We started out talking about causality running from restrictions to compliance.  Now you are talking about causality running from compliance to health outcomes.

Those are not the same thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 31, 2021, 10:48:35 PM
You can't measure compliance though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 31, 2021, 11:38:08 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 06:48:58 PM
Paul Krugman wrote "I don't know how many people will die unnecessarily because the governor of Texas has decided that ignoring the science and end the mask requirement is a good way to own the libs. But the number won't be zero."

Just want to note that Krugman is wrong, it has nothing to do with the libs. The reason Abbott did that is because the February power outtage put him on political life support and he knows his moderate Covid policy put him in danger of being threatened from the right. So he lifted all the restrictions a few months early just to save his political ass. So he is doing it to own his right flank.

But I think people are so used to whatever restrictions they have decided to accept now that it will take awhile for things to go back to 2019 conditions even once a large number are vaccinated and certainly Abbott's pronouncement didn't change much. Everybody is still doing whatever they have been doing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 01, 2021, 01:43:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 31, 2021, 11:38:08 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 06:48:58 PM
Paul Krugman wrote "I don't know how many people will die unnecessarily because the governor of Texas has decided that ignoring the science and end the mask requirement is a good way to own the libs. But the number won't be zero."

Just want to note that Krugman is wrong, it has nothing to do with the libs. The reason Abbott did that is because the February power outtage put him on political life support and he knows his moderate Covid policy put him in danger of being threatened from the right. So he lifted all the restrictions a few months early just to save his political ass. So he is doing it to own his right flank.

But I think people are so used to whatever restrictions they have decided to accept now that it will take awhile for things to go back to 2019 conditions even once a large number are vaccinated and certainly Abbott's pronouncement didn't change much. Everybody is still doing whatever they have been doing.

Protecting his right flank is most definitely best achieved by being seen to own the libs. So yeah, he is in fact exactly right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2021, 07:36:44 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2021, 01:43:42 AM
Protecting his right flank is most definitely best achieved by being seen to own the libs. So yeah, he is in fact exactly right.

Well nobody is thinking he is owning anything right now, much less the libs. The areas the libs control are doing their own thing. It is not like we are not used to having an adversarial relationship with the state government.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 01, 2021, 07:43:12 AM
Guys, if you have not been able to convince Dorsey in one year, perhaps it is time to give up?

Some people just don't have the neural connections required for empathy developed in them. It happens. Don't waste your time on this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2021, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2021, 07:43:12 AM
Guys, if you have not been able to convince Dorsey in one year, perhaps it is time to give up?

Some people just don't have the neural connections required for empathy developed in them. It happens. Don't waste your time on this.

Give up? Sir, we once fought the battle of Hortlund.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 01, 2021, 10:17:38 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 09:18:29 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 31, 2021, 08:23:04 PM

Krugman said deaths.
Last 7 day chart for deaths is here: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100klast7days
Texas is #2 after California.
Even adjusted for population they are #6.

LOL. MM, that is a fundamentally dishonest analysis. Death is a lagging indicator, the Texas non policy went into effect at the beginning of the month, and when cases were quite high.

FYI. For those wondering about what cases have done since Texas removed state level restrictions on March 4.

(https://i.postimg.cc/zDLSNsTB/Texas-Coronavirus-Map-and-Case-Count-The-New-York-Times.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RqBnQbs5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 01, 2021, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 01, 2021, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2021, 07:43:12 AM
Guys, if you have not been able to convince Dorsey in one year, perhaps it is time to give up?

Some people just don't have the neural connections required for empathy developed in them. It happens. Don't waste your time on this.

Give up? Sir, we once fought the battle of Hortlund.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2021, 10:25:24 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 01, 2021, 10:17:38 AM

FYI. For those wondering about what cases have done since Texas removed state level restrictions on March 4.

As I said the removal of those restrictions did not actually change anything anybody was doing. Not even in state government offices :lol:

It was total political fluff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 01, 2021, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 31, 2021, 10:42:59 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 09:15:32 PM
Yister,

You are totally missing the point here. Socially distancing, avoiding indoor spaces, wearing a mask, etc. all contribute to stopping the spread. The question is to the extent that government restrictions are preventing the spread vs. other factors.

Texas removing all restrictions and cases going down and being in the lower half of the country is a strong indictor that restrictions have much less influence than voluntary compliance.

Fredo, you are totally missing the point here.  We started out talking about causality running from restrictions to compliance.  Now you are talking about causality running from compliance to health outcomes.

Those are not the same thing.

My perspective is that there are different motivations of behavior modification:

-compliance with government restrictions,
-private initiatives and personal decisions to reduce risk.

In the case of Texas, whatever compliance with state government restrictions existed prior to March 2021 does not appear to have been significant in controlling covid-19. This is obvious from what happened regarding disease spread after they were entirely lifted.

My perspective is that meaningful compliance has dropped to zero. Meaningful compliance being confined to compliance with restrictions because the restrictions exist (and not because you think the most safe option is to comply, or because of peer pressure in a community that thinks safety demands certain actions).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 01, 2021, 10:41:23 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2021, 07:43:12 AM
Guys, if you have not been able to convince Dorsey in one year, perhaps it is time to give up?

Some people just don't have the neural connections required for empathy developed in them. It happens. Don't waste your time on this.

A few thoughts. At the beginning, I was vociferously arguing that the inflated death rates for the disease were overstated, and offered bets to anyone that the ultimate rate would come in under 1%. I also offered bets that Tim's projections of death tolls would overshoot by the predicted dates. I would have won those bets.

During the summer, when MM was discussing the irresponsibility of southern US states during a peak outbreak there, I offered him a bet that the deaths per capita in the consortium of southern US governors would end the year below the national average. He declined - I would have won that bet.

We vociferously argued whether the closing of climbing, hiking and camping areas early on was reasonable. Considering they were almost all open later in the year when cases were much higher, and almost all INDOOR climbing gyms (as well as normal gyms) are now open in the country, it seems the consensus has moved toward my direction whether anyone wants to admit it or not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 01, 2021, 11:05:11 AM
Incidentally, I also believed that IFR was below 1% back then, but now I think I was wrong.  Back then we had to do a whole bunch of back-of-the-envelope estimates, because testing was so limited so the denominator was inconsistently unreliable.  However, the latest figures still appear to point to 2.0%-2.5% case fatality rate, and I just don't think it's plausible to assume that we're still only catching at most 40% of the cases.  It does appear to be the case that the real IFR is somewhere between 1.0% and 2.0%, not below 1.0%.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 01, 2021, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 01, 2021, 11:05:11 AM
Incidentally, I also believed that IFR was below 1% back then, but now I think I was wrong.  Back then we had to do a whole bunch of back-of-the-envelope estimates, because testing was so limited so the denominator was inconsistently unreliable.  However, the latest figures still appear to point to 2.0%-2.5% case fatality rate, and I just don't think it's plausible to assume that we're still only catching at most 40% of the cases.  It does appear to be the case that the real IFR is somewhere between 1.0% and 2.0%, not below 1.0%.

You are probably missing something near all of the asymptomatic cases and a healthy percentage of the mildly symptomatic ones.

Most of the literature is going off of demographic estimates based on age.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7721859/

Using table 3 of this article, and the US population profile by age on wikipedia:

Age / IFR / % of population
0-34 / 0.004% / 47.2%
35-44 / 0.068% / 13.3%
45-54 / 0.23% / 14.6%
55-64 / 0.75% / 11.8%
65-74 / 2.5% / 7.0%
75-84 / 8.5% / 4.3%
85+ / 28.3% / 1.8%

Which if covid was evenly distributed through the population by age would imply an IFR of 1.18%. But I think that is really unlikely--on a per capita basis under 65's have a lot more positive tests than older groups, and since that is also where most of the asymptomatic and mild cases are concentrated the actual incidence is probably quite a bit less. I think it is really unlikely we are over 1%.

The CDC estimated back in February that we had 83.1 million total infections. The implication is that the overall IFR in the US would be around 0.6-0.7%.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 01, 2021, 12:13:34 PM
The fatality rate of Covid is going to be debated for a long, long time.

The thing is it's hard to divide up into "infected" vs "not infected".  Take my wife*.  She tested positive for Covid.  She had no symptoms, did not pass it to me or our kids.  My understanding is the PCR tests are quite accurate - that it did detect the Covid virus from her sample.  But it could be that she had such a low viral load that she wasn't meaningfully infected.

One of the reasons the fatality rate appears to be diminishing is that as we all more-or-less wear masks and practice social distancing the virus is still spreading, but the amount of viral load being transmitted is greatly decreased and thus the strength of the resulting infection is lessened.




*Insert Henny Youngman joke here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2021, 12:14:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 01, 2021, 12:13:34 PM
The fatality rate of Covid is going to be debated for a long, long time.

Well we are going to have it around for a very long time, so I am sure we will have many opportunities to gather data on the subject.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 01, 2021, 12:20:47 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 01, 2021, 10:28:50 AM
My perspective is that there are different motivations of behavior modification:

-compliance with government restrictions,
-private initiatives and personal decisions to reduce risk.

In the case of Texas, whatever compliance with state government restrictions existed prior to March 2021 does not appear to have been significant in controlling covid-19. This is obvious from what happened regarding disease spread after they were entirely lifted.

My perspective is that meaningful compliance has dropped to zero. Meaningful compliance being confined to compliance with restrictions because the restrictions exist (and not because you think the most safe option is to comply, or because of peer pressure in a community that thinks safety demands certain actions).

This is the fourth time running you have failed to understand the difference between restrictions causing noncompliance and the impact of noncompliance on deaths and infections, or willfully ignored it.

Peace out homie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 01, 2021, 12:43:00 PM
Yi, I'm seriously not willfully ignore anything.

If we define compliance as following government rules and regulations, I think in a world that could have been we could have had effective rules and regulations from government authorities that were complied with, and ultimately reduced deaths and infections.

Somewhere along the way, from what I've experienced at least, people began to do what they felt was appropriate (or followed their community herd in doing so), and ultimately the rules and regulations became somewhat meaningless. The loss of meaning in the rules and regulations is unfortunate as a tool is lost to control deaths and regulations. But compliance is a relatively meaningless concept -- I really have no idea what the rules and regulations are.

My perspective is that the rules and regulations could have had a better chance to keep meaning if they had a lighter touch at the start. Plus, for people that are ignoring almost everything, there could have been a better chance to keep them in the covid-concerned camp if governments didn't have mandates that were at times transparently stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 01, 2021, 12:57:27 PM
Yi, to be absolutely clear, I'm not solely attributing rural regions have become covid unconcerned to that one time I saw a cop blocking a hiking trail in the middle of no where.

Their great leader going on TV every day to tell people he wasn't going to wear a mask and to take anti malarials and possibly chlorox definitely didn't help, as did a zillion other factors such as less education and probably a more survivalist mentality.

But blocking random hiking trails certainly doesn't help.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on April 01, 2021, 04:32:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 01, 2021, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2021, 07:43:12 AM
Guys, if you have not been able to convince Dorsey in one year, perhaps it is time to give up?

Some people just don't have the neural connections required for empathy developed in them. It happens. Don't waste your time on this.

Give up? Sir, we once fought the battle of Hortlund.

And that was fucking pointless.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on April 01, 2021, 04:33:21 PM
And this thread was meant for us to facepalm at Syt's family's postings, not debating a brick wall.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 01, 2021, 05:13:51 PM
Quote from: The Larch on April 01, 2021, 04:32:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 01, 2021, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 01, 2021, 07:43:12 AM
Guys, if you have not been able to convince Dorsey in one year, perhaps it is time to give up?

Some people just don't have the neural connections required for empathy developed in them. It happens. Don't waste your time on this.

Give up? Sir, we once fought the battle of Hortlund.

And that was fucking pointless.

So was the 3rd Battle of the Isonzo, but did that stop the Italians?  Well, not from fighting the rest of the battles, but it did kinda stop them.  What was my point again?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 01:35:46 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 31, 2021, 09:18:29 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 31, 2021, 08:23:04 PM

Krugman said deaths.
Last 7 day chart for deaths is here: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100klast7days
Texas is #2 after California.
Even adjusted for population they are #6.

LOL. MM, that is a fundamentally dishonest analysis. Death is a lagging indicator, the Texas non policy went into effect at the beginning of the month, and when cases were quite high.

What is dishonest is saying Krugman is wrong based on a metric he didn't use.
Case counts can vary for lots of reasons, deaths are deaths.  He made the statement at the beginning of the month, and Texas is leading in deaths late in the month.  Thems the facts.
The bigger point is the the policy is stupid and done for political gamesmanship.  Yes just like the Southern strategy was stupid and did cost lives there.

I did err on the side of what I thought was pessimism a year ago out of the cautionary principle and still managed to underestimate the deaths this disease has caused in America.  Sad but fitting that crappy political leadership continues to do all it can to keep COVID in the game as the vaccine coverage kicks in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 02, 2021, 02:17:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/166452142_3853057368105406_8673907422344160987_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=AmIdyJIJA_UAX81c-P9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d4d6ae9df7fb64eb4b295545060860ea&oe=608A86A5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 02, 2021, 05:12:18 AM
Another own goal there. Showing examples of marketing and big money interests that were defeated by science. Are they saying the marketers were right and the scientists wrong?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 02, 2021, 08:09:29 AM
Quote from: Tyr on April 02, 2021, 05:12:18 AM
Another own goal there. Showing examples of marketing and big money interests that were defeated by science. Are they saying the marketers were right and the scientists wrong?

The literally next post on my middle sister's timeline is:

QuoteHistory All Day

This is known as one of medicine's most incredible moments. In 1922, at the University of Toronto, scientists went to a hospital ward with children who were comatose and dying from diabetic keto-acidosis. Imagine a room full of parents sitting at the bedside waiting for the inevitable death of their child. The scientists went from bed to bed and injected the children with the new purified extract - insulin. As they began to inject the last comatose child, the first child injected began to awaken. One by one, all of the children awoke from their diabetic comas. A room of death and gloom, became a place of joy and hope. Thank You Dr. Banting and Dr. Best!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 08:36:00 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 01:35:46 AM

What is dishonest is saying Krugman is wrong based on a metric he didn't use.
Case counts can vary for lots of reasons, deaths are deaths.  He made the statement at the beginning of the month, and Texas is leading in deaths late in the month.  Thems the facts.
The bigger point is the the policy is stupid and done for political gamesmanship.  Yes just like the Southern strategy was stupid and did cost lives there.


Your position on Krugman is untenable. The full op ed is linked:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/opinion/coronavirus-masks.html

To summarize his arguments:

-Masks reduce the spread of covid-19.
-There is no reason not to wear a mask. There is no economic argument to going around maskless.
-Texas removed the mask mandate for purely political reasons -- to appeal to voters by signaling that the governor rejects "liberal values like civic responsibility and belief in science"
-People are going to die because of the removal of the mask mandate.

If my personal perspective here matters, I agree with bullets 1 through 3. I think requiring a mask in indoor public places makes sense!

But Texas was way more covid-y at the start of March than it is at the end. That clearly undercuts his argument that getting rid of the mask mandate (and every other state level restriction) would cause people to die.

I don't see the relevance of of people dying of covid in a period where the mask mandate was still in place, or caught covid in Texas most mask mandate while transmission in Texas was falling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 09:55:48 AM
AR the question posed is whether *ceteris paribas* fewer people would have died in Texas wearing masks than without since early March.  Looking at last week's case counts is useless to answering that question, both because of the unreliability of case counts generally and because you are comparing it against history as opposed to measuring what the counts would have been last week had more people worn masks.  Case counts could be going down for lots of reasons, most notably increasing vaccine coverage.  So your proposed analysis has no control and therefore undercuts nothing.

The argument that less mask wearing has zero effect is a pretty extraordinary claim given what we know about efficacy of masks in helping control spreads.  Before calling out Krugman as a liar you should have sufficiently compelling evidence to prove that.  Raw weekly  case counts doesn't cut it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 02, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
*ceteris paribus

:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 10:12:53 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 09:55:48 AM
AR the question posed is whether *ceteris paribas* fewer people would have died in Texas wearing masks than without since early March.  Looking at last week's case counts is useless to answering that question, both because of the unreliability of case counts generally and because you are comparing it against history as opposed to measuring what the counts would have been last week had more people worn masks.  Case counts could be going down for lots of reasons, most notably increasing vaccine coverage.  So your proposed analysis has no control and therefore undercuts nothing.

The argument that less mask wearing has zero effect is a pretty extraordinary claim given what we know about efficacy of masks in helping control spreads.  Before calling out Krugman as a liar you should have sufficiently compelling evidence to prove that.  Raw weekly  case counts doesn't cut it.

I'm not calling him out as a liar, I'm calling him out for the data indicating he is wrong.

"The argument that less mask wearing has zero effect is a pretty extraordinary claim given what we know about efficacy of masks in helping control spreads."

It is fucking exasperating that you would say this. WHO HAS MADE THIS ARGUMENT!

Not only have I been saying that masks would control the spread, I was posting on here that I though masks would reduce transmission back before masks were mandated and authorities were saying not to use masks. More people wearing masks means there will be less transmission! I'm 100% on board. If the governor of Texas had asked my opinion on lifting the mask mandate, I would have said not to, but he didn't ask my opinion.

The argument is whether lifting the mask mandate caused increased spread in Texas. The data doesn't support that it has. Which I don't think is an unexpected outcome for a few reasons - primarily that people are doing what they and their community are comfortable with regardless of what their elected leaders are telling them.

You can attribute the decrease to vaccines if you want, but Texas is almost at the bottom in vaccine shots / capita and also in the lower half of cases / capita.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 02, 2021, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 09:55:48 AM
The argument that less mask wearing has zero effect is a pretty extraordinary claim given what we know about efficacy of masks in helping control spreads.  Before calling out Krugman as a liar you should have sufficiently compelling evidence to prove that.  Raw weekly  case counts doesn't cut it.
To fair, you're attributing at argument to AR that he did not make, and frankly I struggle to see how that can be an honest mistake.  I think AR has been pretty clear that he thinks rolling back Texas restrictions was meaningless because people's actual mask wearing has nothing to do with what unenforced regulations exist on the books.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 02, 2021, 10:25:00 AM
That is exactly the argument you are making.

Lifting the mask mandate did in fact cause increased spread. At least, that is the argument Krugman is making and you are disputing.

You cannot argue that claim while NOT arguing that masks do not reduce spread.

If the number of deaths absent the mask mandate is even 1 person higher than it would have been WITH the mask mandate, then Krugman is right, and you are wrong.

The TOTAL number of deaths goes down, that is completely irrelevant to his argument.

You are arguing, in effect, that you think seat belts saves lives, but NOT wearing a seatbelt doesn't save a life if the number of deaths by traffic accidents falls after the seatbelt law is repealed - even if at the same time there was a fuel shortage and the amount people drove was cut down by 75%.

All Krugman is arguing is that with the mandate, less people would have died then without the mandate. He is making no argument about the total number of people dying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 02, 2021, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 02, 2021, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 09:55:48 AM
The argument that less mask wearing has zero effect is a pretty extraordinary claim given what we know about efficacy of masks in helping control spreads.  Before calling out Krugman as a liar you should have sufficiently compelling evidence to prove that.  Raw weekly  case counts doesn't cut it.
To fair, you're attributing at argument to AR that he did not make, and frankly I struggle to see how that can be an honest mistake.  I think AR has been pretty clear that he thinks rolling back Texas restrictions was meaningless because people's actual mask wearing has nothing to do with what unenforced regulations exist on the books.

That can only be a valid point if your claim is that in the entire state of Texas, NOBODY cares at all what the governor or government says about mandates.

That itself is a pretty fucking extraordinary claim.

And it is almost entirely supported only by his random anecdotes about traveling around in rural areas. I think there are some pretty significant urban areas in Texas, and I suspect there are plenty of people in Texas who largely don't pay all that much attention to the politics of it all, but mostly just go along with what the government tells them to do. In any case, the argument that everyone ignores the government so much that mandates or no mandates makes ZERO difference in mask wearing and hence spread of Covid and hence deaths from Covid is pretty ridiculous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 02, 2021, 10:37:08 AM
Let's not assume positive (or more precisely non-negative) correlation between mandates and behavior, which is what you're doing here.  We're not dealing with adult minds here, adult minds will have enough sense to wear a mask anyway regardless of what the government says.  Among the people that are borderline, I can see how some would take a cue from toothless regulations, but I can also see how some would do the opposite just because that's what people with the minds of a 12-year old do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 10:49:11 AM
The correlation I assume is that if the state governor tells the people of the state they don't need to wear masks anymore and repeals all restrictions including enforceable restrictions on state or local property, then that will cause mask use to decline cet par. not increase.  And I think the burden of proof is very much on the side arguing the contrary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 10:52:06 AM
The alternative is assuming we need to treat the American population like a particularly stubborn and perversely behaved infant and putting in a reverse mandate banning mask use so that reverse psychology will lead to more use.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 11:03:41 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 02, 2021, 10:25:00 AM
That is exactly the argument you are making.

Lifting the mask mandate did in fact cause increased spread. At least, that is the argument Krugman is making and you are disputing.

You cannot argue that claim while NOT arguing that masks do not reduce spread.

If the number of deaths absent the mask mandate is even 1 person higher than it would have been WITH the mask mandate, then Krugman is right, and you are wrong.

The TOTAL number of deaths goes down, that is completely irrelevant to his argument.

You are arguing, in effect, that you think seat belts saves lives, but NOT wearing a seatbelt doesn't save a life if the number of deaths by traffic accidents falls after the seatbelt law is repealed - even if at the same time there was a fuel shortage and the amount people drove was cut down by 75%.

All Krugman is arguing is that with the mandate, less people would have died then without the mandate. He is making no argument about the total number of people dying.

That is reducing Krugman's take to the realm of unverifiability.

You are setting up a scenario that is impossible to refute. If cases quadrupled over the past month, I strongly suspect many of you guys would be citing it as a result of the state repeal of all restrictions.

But if you want to argue that there must be someone, somewhere in Texas, that stopped wearing a mask because the mandate was lifted, and that since masks are effective that must be result in some increased spread, and since covid-19 results in death in some percentage of people we must have had at least one additional death in Texas and Krugman must have been right, okay. But then I could argue that there must be some person that were terrified of the situation created by the repeal (media is rife with those takes, but I don't know if anyone with the take that they've been wearing a mask and will now stop), and thus stayed home or avoided visiting Texas in the past month, and by some marginal effect reduced covid spread and thus saved lives.

I wouldn't make either of those arguments (yours or my hypothetical argument) though I'm sure on some extremely marginal level they both have validity. It is just obvious that transmission has not only slowed in Texas post the repeal of all restrictions and fallen to the lower half of the country, which is I think pretty damn good evidence that the state level mandates were devoid of real effectiveness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 11:07:17 AM
Hard to test and verify is not the same as unverifiability.

Difficulty to verify is not an excuse for cherry-picking obviously misleading data as a cudgel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 11:07:17 AM
Hard to test and verify is not the same as unverifiability.

Then how would you suggest we could disprove Krugman's thesis?
Quote
Difficulty to verify is not an excuse for cherry-picking obviously misleading data as a cudgel.

Do you really think the data in any way indicates that the rate of transmission in Texas has increased since the repeal? (including against national benchmarks if you want to consider the effect of vaccines)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on April 02, 2021, 11:43:32 AM
Before we decide if AR is an egoist we should find out what happened with his adventure cat. If its still in his care even though the plan didn't pan out he might be a nice guy. If he killed it or kicked it out he's a huge ass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: Threviel on April 02, 2021, 11:43:32 AM
Before we decide if AR is an egoist we should find out what happened with his adventure cat. If its still in his care even though the plan didn't pan out he might be a nice guy. If he killed it or kicked it out he's a huge ass.

Sadly I think adventure cats are a fraud that was used to entice me into getting a cat by my fiance (I think she was suckered into the adventure cat myth as well). Our cat just turned two and we have accepted that he is a housecat and not an adventure cat.

We've put down a deposit on a puppy which we have higher hopes that we can take with us on outdoor pursuits. I also hope that once we get a house our cat will get more comfortable in the backyard and get to hunt real prey.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 11:07:17 AM
Hard to test and verify is not the same as unverifiability.

Then how would you suggest we could disprove Krugman's thesis?

You could design a proper study that properly models the alternative scenario of continuing mask mandates, in the same surrounding context. There are ways of doing that.


QuoteDo you really think the data in any way indicates that the rate of transmission in Texas has increased since the repeal? (including against national benchmarks if you want to consider the effect of vaccines)

There is plenty of data to support the conclusion that masks inhibit transmission so your entire case revolves around proving the extremely counterintuitive proposition that Abbott's order increased mask usage or held it steady. Unitl there is proof of that proposition it is not a reasonably contestable question. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 12:04:26 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 11:50:14 AM

You could design a proper study that properly models the alternative scenario of continuing mask mandates, in the same surrounding context. There are ways of doing that.

I disagree. There will never be a model taking into account all the population level effects of the Texas statewide order that has anywhere near the consensus on design and inputs to conclusively determine anything.

QuoteThere is plenty of data to support the conclusion that masks inhibit transmission so your entire case revolves around proving the extremely counterintuitive proposition that Abbott's order increased mask usage or held it steady. Unitl there is proof of that proposition it is not a reasonably contestable question.

I don't agree that my entire case revolves around that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 12:10:26 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 12:04:26 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 11:50:14 AM

You could design a proper study that properly models the alternative scenario of continuing mask mandates, in the same surrounding context. There are ways of doing that.

I disagree. There will never be a model taking into account all the population level effects of the Texas statewide order that has anywhere near the consensus on design and inputs to conclusively determine anything.

I do think it would be possible to model, but if you disagree, then you have to accept that there is way using case data to prove or disprove Krugman.

However, since you do accept that masks help impede spread, then all that is left is to argue that Abbot's order either increased or did not change mask usage.

Am I missing something else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 12:24:52 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/kMbTzTS8/Georgia-Coronavirus-Map-and-Case-Count-The-New-York-Times.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CdwCfHmL)metrobank hours (https://banks-nearme.com/metro-bank-near-me)

Look at Georgia. Georgia was the first state in the nation to get rid of virtually all rules, mostly on April 24 and basically entirely by May 1. Initially cases didn't spike, after a wave of negative press (most infamously the Atlantic's article titled "Georgia's Experiment in Human Sacrifice") and antilockdown people were triumphant. Then there was a massive summer surge and a bunch of "I told you so" from lockdown people.

In the end, Georgia's deaths / million is 1,801, roughly in line with the national average of 1,732. Georgia's death rate is 18th out of 50 states, and among deep south states it is 4th out of 5. If it matters, Louisiana is significantly higher--2,186 deaths/million, as the only deep south state with a democrat in charge.

What matters is how people behave, not what the (unenforced) rules are, and I continue to believe there would have been better behavior if the rules weren't so absurdly strict at the start. Plus there wouldn't have been the massive backlash to the rules from politicians like the Georgia governor if they weren't so disruptive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 12:35:14 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 12:10:26 PM

However, since you do accept that masks help impede spread, then all that is left is to argue that Abbot's order either increased or did not change mask usage.

Am I missing something else?

You are.

In a zillion different ways. I posted one already that was that he legitimately could have deterred people from visiting the state, or encouraged people to self isolate out of fear of how irresponsible the action seemed to be.

Another is that the removal of restrictive public rules could encourage people that were previously congregating in homes and similar enclosed spaces to use public spaces that tend to be more socially distanced and well ventilated.

It also could have prompted people to stop relying on compliance with mandates to stay safe and take a personally assessed risk based approach with their decisions.

It could have caused the more politically inclined anti lockdown portions of the population to take precautions to support the new non rule based regime.

I don't think that any of these effects are in any way significant. Nor do I think that very many people are going to stop wearing masks because the state mandate was lifted. I believe the unenforced rules have basically become irrelevant for much of the population, and the cases have probably been falling in Texas because people were a bit frightened by the recent peak more than anything else.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 02, 2021, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 10:49:11 AM
The correlation I assume is that if the state governor tells the people of the state they don't need to wear masks anymore and repeals all restrictions including enforceable restrictions on state or local property, then that will cause mask use to decline cet par. not increase.  And I think the burden of proof is very much on the side arguing the contrary.
I'm arguing against the logic used by Berkut.  If you assume that for any given person, the worst case scenario of a mandate repeal is that the person stops wearing a mask when previously they wore one, then it's correct to assume that as long as this happened to one person out of tens of millions, the case is proven.  However, once there exists a possibility of some paradoxical effect, such as a childishly stubborn person doing the opposite of what they're told, or people taking extra precautions because they realized they can't rely on idiotic government to protect them, then the logic doesn't work anymore, and you have to rely on some kind of data.

As an aside, I've been playing the newer version of Plague, Inc. where the task is to cure the world of the plague rather than spread it.  It turns out that one way to help spread the plague is to impose lockdowns when your non-compliance is already very high.  The way it works is that imposing a lockdown with high non-compliance sabotages some of the other measures like contact tracing whose effectiveness relies on non-compliance stat.  Obviously this is a game, and not a model of reality, but this is a game built on some kind of mathematical model, so there exist mathematical models of the pandemic control where you can have paradoxical effects.

Just to be clear, I'm not defending AR here, I'm challenging sloppy arguments.  I personally find AR's Texas data a little challenging to process, but I use that as an opportunity to try to understand something rather than as an opportunity to practice my handwaving.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 02, 2021, 12:47:57 PM
What I mean in the first paragraph is that if you assume that the only change from repeal of mandate could be from wearing a mask to not wearing a mask, then you just need one case of that to prove the correlation.  However, if the change in behavior can go both ways for any given person, then you can't prove the case logically, now you have to actually measure effects.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 01:27:16 PM
You can make any argument about behavioral response, but the side that propounds a theory of behavioral response that is based on "some paradoxical effect, such as a childishly stubborn person doing the opposite of what they're told" - as you very aptly expressed it - then the initial burden of proof that such a response exists and had a material effect should be with the party asserting such paradoxical effect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 02, 2021, 01:35:17 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 01:27:16 PM
You can make any argument about behavioral response, but the side that propounds a theory of behavioral response that is based on "some paradoxical effect, such as a childishly stubborn person doing the opposite of what they're told" - as you very aptly expressed it - then the initial burden of proof that such a response exists and had a material effect should be with the party asserting such paradoxical effect.
The burden of proof is a concept that is relevant only when you want to deliberately bias a conclusion.  There is a reason to bias conclusions in court, but there is no reason to bias conclusions in logical arguments, in fact there is a good reason not to.  If the logical argument doesn't work as long as there exists a possibility of another effect, then it just doesn't work as long as you didn't rule that possibility out.  Not every argument has to be logical in nature, but the ones that are logical work this way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 01:57:04 PM
When I see a logical argument posed, I will be happy to apply that standard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 02, 2021, 02:05:18 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 01:57:04 PM
When I see a logical argument posed, I will be happy to apply that standard.
See Berkut's response to me, that was a logical argument.  His argument was that as long as one person stops wearing a mask as a result of repeal, then Krugman's case is proven, and presumably we can find one such case (no argument there, I'm sure there will be, no need to die on that hill).  What I did was point out that the argument was relying on the assumption that there cannot be any paradoxical effects, that the best case scenario for the repeal is that nothing changes for the better.

More mathematically, he was saying that as long some number greater than zero exists in a set of numbers, then the average of all the numbers cannot be zero.  I'm pointing out that this is true only if all the numbers are non-negative.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 02:30:20 PM
Correct, Bekut's argument and mine is based on the assumption of no net paradoxical effects.  As well as the assumptions that our perception of reality isn't being distorted by demons and that Texas is a real state and not a fictional marketing gimmick of the dying hat and cowboy boot industries.

By the same token, the counter-argument does depend on some assumption of paradoxical effects.  (the demon hypothesis would be helpful but not strictly necessary). So where is the proof?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 02, 2021, 02:32:41 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/56419487_2153017314735308_7076136689504092160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=giKbvlptlhwAX_xdYoU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2fc26386ba377211ab128d7ac860e577&oe=608C91EC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 02, 2021, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 02:30:20 PM
Correct, Bekut's argument and mine is based on the assumption of no net paradoxical effects.  As well as the assumptions that our perception of reality isn't being distorted by demons and that Texas is a real state and not a fictional marketing gimmick of the dying hat and cowboy boot industries.

By the same token, the counter-argument does depend on some assumption of paradoxical effects.  (the demon hypothesis would be helpful but not strictly necessary). So where is the proof?
No, one is not making any assumptions by pointing out assumptions in other people's arguments.  When I point out that you're assuming no paradoxical effects, I'm not making an assumption that paradoxical effects exist.  This is really getting ridiculous.  Anyway, I made the point that I intended to make, and I don't think any further clarification will be productive towards advancing that point.  The horse is near the water, it's now up to the horse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2021, 06:18:58 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 02:30:20 PM
Correct, Bekut's argument and mine is based on the assumption of no net paradoxical effects.  As well as the assumptions that our perception of reality isn't being distorted by demons and that Texas is a real state and not a fictional marketing gimmick of the dying hat and cowboy boot industries.

By the same token, the counter-argument does depend on some assumption of paradoxical effects.  (the demon hypothesis would be helpful but not strictly necessary). So where is the proof?

This is really full of circular logic. You are assuming no "net paradoxical effects" which are apparently any factors that could offset people not wearing masks. So you are going to assume that some people aren't going to wear masks that were before when the mandate is lifted (I agree at some trivial level that is likely) but not going to assume the opposite.

A few quick searches on twitter did turn up evidence that people have been thinking the way I was thinking they might. Fear of traveling to Texas, reduced willingness to leave home isolation, reiteration of public health messaging/the key of individual responsibility. I haven't seen anyone saying, "awesome! i've been wearing masks but won't thanks to gov abbott!"

(https://i.postimg.cc/HxWQ0JPs/tweet-picture-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSTrmN83)

(https://i.postimg.cc/B6h2mqd5/tweet-picture-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDkynW7t)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xj4KH1Gn/tweet-picture-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QVc9Zsny)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZcfj1kZ/tweet-picture-4.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 06:43:40 PM
So tweets by random celebs echoing the point that Krugman made in his editorial is evidence that Krugman was wrong????

The reasoning eludes me,
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 03, 2021, 12:53:15 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 06:43:40 PM
So tweets by random celebs echoing the point that Krugman made in his editorial is evidence that Krugman was wrong????

The reasoning eludes me,

I point out Krugman appears to be wrong when he said the removal of state level restrictions in Texas would result in death, as cases have sense fallen.

We all seem to assume that the mechanism for increased death (reduced mask wearing) is probably happening at some level, but you are disputing the mechanisms I've proposed for Abbott's actions lowering death tolls (labeled as "paradoxical") -- to quote you: "You can make any argument about behavioral response, but the side that propounds a theory of behavioral response that is based on "some paradoxical effect, such as a childishly stubborn person doing the opposite of what they're told" - as you very aptly expressed it - then the initial burden of proof that such a response exists and had a material effect should be with the party asserting such paradoxical effect."

I'll suggest that the labeling of the mechanisms as "paradoxical effects" is a byproduct of biased thinking.

But the tweets above are evidence that the mechanisms I conjectured are happening on some level:

-A CNN journalist reports "a high level of anxiety" and that at least one person will stop going in stores.
-I suggested some people will avoid travel to the state. I just gave you a person explicitly saying she will do just that.
-I gave you an example of Abbott's action being used to spread public health messaging and promote more cautious behavior.

No one has a comprehensive study quantifying the effects of Abbott's announcement on all the factors influencing transmission rates in Texas. The data point we have is what has happened to transmission rates, and the reality is they have fallen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 03, 2021, 01:41:22 AM
Guys, could you take the discussion to one of the numerous Covid threads, please? :)

QuoteFACTS:

Let's see how the Facebook Nazis fact checks this !

"The Chinese biological laboratory in Wuhan is owned by Glaxosmithkline, which (accidentally) owns Pfizer!"  (the one who makes the vaccine against the virus which was (accidentally) started at the Wuhan Biological Lab and which was (accidentally) funded by Dr. Fauci, who (accidentally) promotes the vaccine!

"GlaxoSmithKline is (accidentally) managed by the finance division of Black Rock, which (accidentally) manages the finances of the Open Foundation Company (Soros Foundation), which (accidentally) manages the French AXA!

"Soros (accidentally) owns the German company Winterthur, which (accidentally) built a Chinese laboratory in Wuhan and was bought by the German Allianz, which (coincidentally) has Vanguard as a shareholder, who (coincidentally) is a shareholder of Black Rock,"  which (coincidentally) controls central banks and manages about a third of global investment capital.

"Black Rock" is also (coincidentally) a major shareholder of MICROSOFT, owned by Bill Gates, who (coincidentally) is a shareholder of Pfizer (which - remember? Sells a miracle vaccine) and (coincidentally) is now the first sponsor of the  'WHO!

Now you understand how a dead bat sold in a wet market in China has infected the WHOLE PLANET!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on April 03, 2021, 02:57:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 02, 2021, 02:32:41 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/56419487_2153017314735308_7076136689504092160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=giKbvlptlhwAX_xdYoU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2fc26386ba377211ab128d7ac860e577&oe=608C91EC)

I must admit I liked the "identifies as" bit :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 03, 2021, 05:42:29 AM
Above a very low average to be fair. Same goes for the now cliché reductio at Hitlerem and its variants.

Democratic Socialism as Socialism is WAD though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 03, 2021, 06:11:06 AM
It always makes me laugh that you always hear this "you just call everyone who disagrees with you a nazi" thing from people with fsscy leanings before anyone has actually called them that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 03, 2021, 01:17:55 PM
The first one is stupid even for these people. The term explicitly spells out that it's Socialism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 03, 2021, 02:36:48 PM
I like they put a few red scare shit in there, just to pretend they are something outside of anti intellectualism and culture war shit
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 03, 2021, 03:34:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2021, 02:30:20 PM
Correct, Bekut's argument and mine is based on the assumption of no net paradoxical effects.  As well as the assumptions that our perception of reality isn't being distorted by demons and that Texas is a real state and not a fictional marketing gimmick of the dying hat and cowboy boot industries.

By the same token, the counter-argument does depend on some assumption of paradoxical effects.  (the demon hypothesis would be helpful but not strictly necessary). So where is the proof?

Yeah, I give up.

I mean, sure, there could be some magical "other factor" that COULD exist that makes the repeal of mandates somehow cause people to actually wear masks. I suppose it's possible.

I think Occam will claim that absent some compelling data, the simple conclusion would be that removing a law trying to enforce an action, the result will be less of that action, not more of it.

If in order to accept that AR if full of shit, you demand that someone prove that magic space aliens are not forcing people to wear masks, but only when mask wearing is NOT mandated, then that really isn't an interesting debate to me anymore - have at it DG and AR. You guys can defend Texas and De Santis and all the other fucking nuts all you like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 03, 2021, 04:28:43 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/168022314_3753966274699302_5857562294754334660_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=sn6RT2BVEQAAX-XBHSD&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=062b5172c874482c07ece28a465c660f&oe=60904155)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 03, 2021, 06:56:36 PM
Yet another own goal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 04, 2021, 04:36:03 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/1921027_723406834460712_1280060726491572437_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=lxDV18O4gQgAX_k6Vlf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d079808961e3ec4bebdec30ef17259fd&oe=60901105)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2021, 05:17:30 PM
How is it politically incorrect to do any of those things? :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2021, 05:19:25 PM
Warning: this house does extremist environmental things. We recycle cardboard. If this radical and extreme action is too much for you please leave. HAIL GAIA!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 04, 2021, 11:29:11 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 06, 2021, 12:00:23 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/169632336_10222426897518873_8238530383079997412_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nh-HoqfvXb0AX_zO4-H&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=80c63a5313708b12f0663694c0c9c045&oe=609131F0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 06, 2021, 12:03:38 PM
Republicans trust Soviet leaders over other authorities. Film at 11.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 06, 2021, 12:15:14 PM
That's a time-worn lie.  Reagan used it in the 1960s, and Snopes has it appearing in a Muncie, Indiana newspaper ad in 1960.  The head of the LDS, former Agriculture Secretary Ezra Taft Benson claimed in 1966 that Khrushchev had said that to him privately.  Benson can't explain why he told different versions of his conversation with Khrushchev prior to 1966, nor how a Muncie, Indiana paper knew about this private conversation.   There's no public record of Khrushchev saying this, and only Benson has attributed the report to Benson.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 06, 2021, 12:49:29 PM
Khrushchev's recklessness is on full display here again.  Why in the world would you reveal your game plan to your opponent?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on April 06, 2021, 01:51:50 PM
I like how healthcare is the first stage towards communism.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 06, 2021, 02:02:01 PM
And I like how he addressed the UN (and banged his shoe) two days after he left the US for the last time.

Nothing supports made-up stories like made-up specific details.  Nothing undermines them like that, either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 06, 2021, 02:21:07 PM
I don't think Kruschev could even outline an eight point plan like that.  He didn't have the most robust intellect.  Also, the shoe thing didn't happen in 1959.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 06, 2021, 02:25:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2021, 02:21:07 PM
I don't think Kruschev could even outline an eight point plan like that.  He didn't have the most robust intellect.  Also, the shoe thing didn't happen in 1959.

I was today days old when I learned that Kruschev banging his shoe on the table is actually a matter of some historical debate (even through Kruschev himself included it in his memoirs).

That he had his shoe out is
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 06, 2021, 02:27:08 PM
Hillary has hijacked Beeb's account.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 06, 2021, 02:29:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 06, 2021, 02:25:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2021, 02:21:07 PM
I don't think Kruschev could even outline an eight point plan like that.  He didn't have the most robust intellect.  Also, the shoe thing didn't happen in 1959.

I was today days old when I learned that Kruschev banging his shoe on the table is actually a matter of some historical debate (even through Kruschev himself included it in his memoirs).

That he had his shoe out is

beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct? strangely erotic? cringe?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 06, 2021, 02:30:15 PM
Covfefe
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 06, 2021, 03:54:42 PM
Khrushchev's memoirs are (sometimes) interesting to read, but I don't think they're very reliable for a couple of reasons:

1)  Some suspect that parts of it were edited by KGB or others, to at least somewhat align them with the party agenda of the time.
2)  Khrushchev was very self-serving in his descriptions of everyone and everything.
3)  Khrushchev is one of those people whose memory is just supremely unreliable, and he may have genuinely remembered things in a very different way from how they happened.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on April 07, 2021, 08:22:13 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 06, 2021, 02:27:08 PM
Hillary has hijacked Beeb's account.

:D :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 08, 2021, 01:49:31 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/162937189_2540335049596334_7259043574285790399_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=d3_IDYWeRecAX9OBMKF&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=64c1a29988b4d88f5c7af7f8a12d816b&oe=60948B73)

:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2021, 01:55:26 AM
Pic taken last year I assume?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 08, 2021, 02:38:55 AM
They're scoring so many own goals lately :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 03:23:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Xv4zLvz.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on April 09, 2021, 03:24:28 PM
Agreed, fewer Republican voters will help us all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 03:31:22 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 03:23:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Xv4zLvz.jpg)

Because I figure you're probably not a regular National Review reader, but Kevin Williamson is a pretty smart and talented writer that usually delights in taking a fairly contrarian position.

He's also strongly anti-Trump.

The article itself is here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/04/why-not-fewer-voters/  You can agree or disagree with it as you like, but the article isn't as stupid as you probably think it is.

One excerpt:

QuoteVoters — individually and in majorities — are as apt to be wrong about things as right about them, often vote from low motives such as bigotry and spite, and very often are contentedly ignorant. That is one of the reasons why the original constitutional architecture of this country gave voters a narrowly limited say in most things and took some things — freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. — off the voters' table entirely. It is easy to think of critical moments in American history when giving the majority its way would have produced horrifying results. If we'd had a fair and open national plebiscite about slavery on December 6, 1865, slavery would have won in a landslide. If we held a plebiscite on abolishing the death penalty today, the death penalty would be sustained.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 09, 2021, 03:36:50 PM
Would this free and fair plebiscite include the black voters?

I also have a hard time imagining all the northern whites who just lost 300,000+ lives securing the territories for small farmers would still vote for upholding the slave power and their paranoia of aristocratic control.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 09, 2021, 03:48:03 PM
"The last mass trials were a great success. There are going to be fewer but better Russians."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 09, 2021, 04:23:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 09, 2021, 03:36:50 PM
Would this free and fair plebiscite include the black voters?

I also have a hard time imagining all the northern whites who just lost 300,000+ lives securing the territories for small farmers would still vote for upholding the slave power and their paranoia of aristocratic control.

That is a cool question - what would the results of a plebiscite have been? I'd assume abolition - the whites of the south would be roughly offset by former slaves, and the opinions of the north generally seem to be for abolition considering the dominance of the party that actually enacted abolition (and was rather open about the intention).

The only way I would expect the author's conjecture to be right is if blacks could not vote in the "free and fair election" but white former confederates could - so that the former confederate states could run up a +1 million net vote against abolition. Considering Lincoln's margin of victory in 1864 was about 400k, it seems like that would be a reasonably likely outcome, but that is a really odd definition of "free and fair". But if you used just the people eligible to vote at the moment of December 1865, I think that was before most confederates were disenfranchised, and before most freedmen were franchised, in most of the south.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 04:32:01 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 03:31:22 PM
You can agree or disagree with it as you like, but the article isn't as stupid as you probably think it is.

I don't think it's stupid, I think it's pernicious.

The GOP is heavily pushing towards voter disenfranchisement as a means to hold on to power. I'm sure they can find smart and well spoken people to generate arguments to provide intellectual cover, but that doesn't change that it is anti-democratic. Nor does it change that the push for voter disenfranchisement is venally self-serving.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 09, 2021, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 04:32:01 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 03:31:22 PM
You can agree or disagree with it as you like, but the article isn't as stupid as you probably think it is.

I don't think it's stupid, I think it's pernicious.

The GOP is heavily pushing towards voter disenfranchisement as a means to hold on to power. I'm sure they can find smart and well spoken people to generate arguments to provide intellectual cover, but that doesn't change that it is anti-democratic. Nor does it change that the push for voter disenfranchisement is venally self-serving.

Conservatives have been rather openly anti-democratic for a while (you could snidely say for centuries). "We are a republic not a democracy" has been a line of though among conservatives for at least a decade.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 09, 2021, 04:44:43 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 09, 2021, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 04:32:01 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 03:31:22 PM
You can agree or disagree with it as you like, but the article isn't as stupid as you probably think it is.

I don't think it's stupid, I think it's pernicious.

The GOP is heavily pushing towards voter disenfranchisement as a means to hold on to power. I'm sure they can find smart and well spoken people to generate arguments to provide intellectual cover, but that doesn't change that it is anti-democratic. Nor does it change that the push for voter disenfranchisement is venally self-serving.

Conservatives have been rather openly anti-democratic for a while (you could snidely say for centuries). "We are a republic not a democracy" has been a line of though among conservatives for at least a decade.

A line of thought endorsed by President Bartlet, a supposedly liberal politician.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 04:47:28 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 04:32:01 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 03:31:22 PM
You can agree or disagree with it as you like, but the article isn't as stupid as you probably think it is.

I don't think it's stupid, I think it's pernicious.

The GOP is heavily pushing towards voter disenfranchisement as a means to hold on to power. I'm sure they can find smart and well spoken people to generate arguments to provide intellectual cover, but that doesn't change that it is anti-democratic. Nor does it change that the push for voter disenfranchisement is venally self-serving.

Okay, but Williamson isn't a politician.  He doesn't identify with the GOP.  He doesn't even mention the Georgia rules.  And he literally wrote a book entitled "The Case Against Trump".

I don't think you actually wrote the article.

He also wrote a follow-up, as he gathered some criticism.

In it he wrote:

QuoteThe emotional incontinence of the responses and the accompanying lack of anything that might be considered a genuine argument is further confirmation that what we are dealing with here is not a political idea at all but instead that very American form of idolatry: democracy as a religion — the supernatural belief that "voting is sacred," as Deb Haaland and many others have put it. But we should not allow that kind of figurative hyperbole to lead us astray: Voting is not sacred — it is, at best, useful, a way of organizing government that is, for all of its many faults, more convenient than bonking one another on the head.

But there are lots of very democratic political situations that produce terrible outcomes (India for much of its modern history) and situations in which the strict limitation of democracy creates superior outcomes (the Bill of Rights). Unlimited, unqualified democracy has been such a dangerous mess in so many contexts for so many centuries that our Founding Fathers despised the very word — and blessed their countrymen with a form of government in which majorities do not get their way when it comes to many very important things.

Contrary to our national political faith, voting is not a precondition of legitimacy. The People's Republic of China is an awful and evil state in many ways, but it is not an illegitimate one in the estimate of the people who consent to be governed by it. We don't have to like that to understand it, and we'd be better off understanding it. The European Union is a non-democratic superstate that is legitimate in spite of what some of its leaders concede is a "democracy deficit."  The U.S. Senate was not an illegitimate body when its members were not elected by the people; the Supreme Court is not made illegitimate by the fact that its members are not elected; nobody walking this earth voted for the Bill of Rights — an antidemocratic measure that puts certain things beyond the reach of mere elected majorities — but it is not for that reason illegitimate. Sixteen-year-olds are not oppressed by the fact that don't have the vote, even though some of them pay taxes. The District of Columbia is not oppressed by its constitutional status. Etc.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/fewer-voters-continued/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 09, 2021, 04:49:10 PM
He sure likes digging, doesn't he?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 09, 2021, 04:53:43 PM
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 09, 2021, 04:56:04 PM
The fact that not everything should be left to the voters is obvious, or else you'll have a Soviet style communist party democracy where the winners vote to have the losers shot.  I don't see how that follows that some people should not be voting.

It's a very old argument that some people are too stupid or irresponsible for voting, so it would be better if they were in some way relieved of the franchise.  People putting forth these arguments seem to forget that the stupid or irresponsible people are still subject to the power of the government.  I think that "taxation without representation" was a big issue a while ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 05:01:25 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 04:47:28 PM
Okay, but Williamson isn't a politician.  He doesn't identify with the GOP.  He doesn't even mention the Georgia rules.  And he literally wrote a book entitled "The Case Against Trump".

Cool. I don't expect the public intellectuals and writers who provide lay the intellectual groundwork and provide the rhetorical cover for various political groupings to be actual politicians. It'd be kind of weird -or at least noteworthy uncommon - for someone like Williamson to be a politician, whatever his political leanings.

QuoteI don't think you actually wrote the article.

Definitely not. I doubt the National Review would publish anything I wrote :lol:

(More to the point, I didn't actually read it either.)

QuoteHe also wrote a follow-up, as he gathered some criticism.

In it he wrote:

QuoteThe emotional incontinence of the responses and the accompanying lack of anything that might be considered a genuine argument is further confirmation that what we are dealing with here is not a political idea at all but instead that very American form of idolatry: democracy as a religion — the supernatural belief that "voting is sacred," as Deb Haaland and many others have put it. But we should not allow that kind of figurative hyperbole to lead us astray: Voting is not sacred — it is, at best, useful, a way of organizing government that is, for all of its many faults, more convenient than bonking one another on the head.

But there are lots of very democratic political situations that produce terrible outcomes (India for much of its modern history) and situations in which the strict limitation of democracy creates superior outcomes (the Bill of Rights). Unlimited, unqualified democracy has been such a dangerous mess in so many contexts for so many centuries that our Founding Fathers despised the very word — and blessed their countrymen with a form of government in which majorities do not get their way when it comes to many very important things.

Contrary to our national political faith, voting is not a precondition of legitimacy. The People's Republic of China is an awful and evil state in many ways, but it is not an illegitimate one in the estimate of the people who consent to be governed by it. We don't have to like that to understand it, and we'd be better off understanding it. The European Union is a non-democratic superstate that is legitimate in spite of what some of its leaders concede is a "democracy deficit."  The U.S. Senate was not an illegitimate body when its members were not elected by the people; the Supreme Court is not made illegitimate by the fact that its members are not elected; nobody walking this earth voted for the Bill of Rights — an antidemocratic measure that puts certain things beyond the reach of mere elected majorities — but it is not for that reason illegitimate. Sixteen-year-olds are not oppressed by the fact that don't have the vote, even though some of them pay taxes. The District of Columbia is not oppressed by its constitutional status. Etc.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/fewer-voters-continued/

Cool.

We are at a time when a morally bankrupt white supremacist populist nationalist movement is attempting to disenfranchise large parts of the electorate in an attempt to gain and seize power on a permanent basis in the US. No matter how unaligned you may feel you are, and no matter how intellectually rigorous and objective you may feel you are acting, you will be providing them rhetorical ammunition if you argue that it's okay to disenfranchise voters.

But since you read the article in question, maybe you can clarify who the people he believes should be relegated to the status of 16-year olds? Whose citizenship should be downgraded to have the influence on government equivalent to those of Chinese citizens?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 09, 2021, 05:04:16 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess non-whites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on April 09, 2021, 05:08:32 PM
Why would the Bill of Rights be beyond the power of voters? I thought congress can pass constitutional amendment and then the state legislatures can ratify these? That's how the Bill of Rights was originally created as well...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 05:01:25 PM
We are at a time when a morally bankrupt white supremacist populist nationalist movement is attempting to disenfranchise large parts of the electorate in an attempt to gain and seize power on a permanent basis in the US. No matter how unaligned you may feel you are, and no matter how intellectually rigorous and objective you may feel you are acting, you will be providing them rhetorical ammunition if you argue that it's okay to disenfranchise voters.

I very much dislike this type of argument.

It makes no attempt to address the text of the article - in fact you haven't read it.  But instead you argue that whether the article is right or wrong, it might give comfort to the Trumpists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on April 09, 2021, 06:30:22 PM
People who wish to disenfranchise others rarely imagine themselves to ever be disenfranchised.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on April 09, 2021, 06:32:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 06:28:36 PM
I very much dislike this type of argument.

Do you think it's a coincidence that this article, pushing this very idea, is appearing in print right now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 06:40:41 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on April 09, 2021, 06:32:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 06:28:36 PM
I very much dislike this type of argument.

Do you think it's a coincidence that this article, pushing this very idea, is appearing in print right now?

Of course not.  It's because those on the left are writing these paeans to democracy and so Williamson is pushing back.  Like I said, he's a contrarian.

I don't exactly love the article because it doesn't then make any counter-argument - it doesn't say how much democracy is too much, or not enough, or whatever.  It's kind of only half-formed.

But what it definitely isn't is a defence of Trumpists attempts to disenfranchise voters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 06:50:40 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 06:28:36 PM
I very much dislike this type of argument.

That's cool. Doesn't make it incorrect.

QuoteIt makes no attempt to address the text of the article - in fact you haven't read it.  But instead you argue that whether the article is right or wrong, it might give comfort to the Trumpists.

More like I argue that restricting the franchise is a pernicious thought, and I'm not giving clicks to contrarians attempting to undermine democracy.

It also gives aid and comfort to Trumpists, of course, because they can argue that limiting the franchise is not just their idea but supported by respectable intellectuals who are otherwise against them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on April 09, 2021, 06:52:41 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 06:40:41 PM
But what it definitely isn't is a defence of Trumpists attempts to disenfranchise voters.

No - but most people here don't associate the attempts to disenfranchise voters with Trumpism, who was mostly bellowing about fraud in his usual sort of projections, but with the Republicans and with conservatism in general. So, the author may very well dislike Trump, that would still make him belong squarely within a long history of disenfranchisement amongst conservatives.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 09, 2021, 06:59:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 03:31:22 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 03:23:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Xv4zLvz.jpg)

Because I figure you're probably not a regular National Review reader, but Kevin Williamson is a pretty smart and talented writer that usually delights in taking a fairly contrarian position.

He's also strongly anti-Trump.

The article itself is here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/04/why-not-fewer-voters/  You can agree or disagree with it as you like, but the article isn't as stupid as you probably think it is.

One excerpt:

QuoteVoters — individually and in majorities — are as apt to be wrong about things as right about them, often vote from low motives such as bigotry and spite, and very often are contentedly ignorant. That is one of the reasons why the original constitutional architecture of this country gave voters a narrowly limited say in most things and took some things — freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. — off the voters' table entirely. It is easy to think of critical moments in American history when giving the majority its way would have produced horrifying results. If we'd had a fair and open national plebiscite about slavery on December 6, 1865, slavery would have won in a landslide. If we held a plebiscite on abolishing the death penalty today, the death penalty would be sustained.

I have read it - his argument mixes up some very different ideas, such as:

- the tyranny of the majority is not a good thing, which is why some things (such as fundamental rights) are rightly made very difficult to change by majority vote. This is something I agree with.

- he uses this to argue that 'more democracy' is not necessarily a good thing, and so more percentage voters is not necessarily a good thing. This does not follow at all from the preceding point: a tyranny of the majority situation would not be affected if everyone voted or not.

- he states voter fraud is something that should be prevented, and that if less people vote as a result of measures taken to prevent voter fraud, that's acceptable - because if the vote is important it is important enough to protect. Yet he provides no evidence that voter fraud is currently a significant problem. The suspicion is that it is not (at least, very little evidence for it had been out foreword) so the cost/benefit weighs highly against it - assuming, of course, that you see disenfranchising people as a "cost" rather than a "benefit"! 

- he makes the point that most Americans are dumb and so, if more of them vote, they would just vote ignorantly. This may be true, but there is no easy way of separating out the dumb from the smart, and historically, such methods as were used were used to discriminate against the poor and non-white - current events have proven that many dumb and/or insane voters are white and not poor (look at Trump voters).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 09, 2021, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 09, 2021, 06:40:41 PM
Of course not.  It's because those on the left are writing these paeans to democracy and so Williamson is pushing back.  Like I said, he's a contrarian.

And those on the left are writing paeans to democracy because democracy in parts of the US is under attack by a whole slew of legislation right now.

QuoteI don't exactly love the article because it doesn't then make any counter-argument - it doesn't say how much democracy is too much, or not enough, or whatever.  It's kind of only half-formed.

That makes it very versatile, though. Anyone - whatever the reason for their dislike for democracy - can pick it up and use it against those leftists with their "paeans to democracy."

QuoteBut what it definitely isn't is a defence of Trumpists attempts to disenfranchise voters.

Of course not, it's about the real important issue which is that Georgia didn't elect a sufficient number of GOP senators. Which is something apparently even anti-Trumpist Conservatives like Williamson can agree is an example of too much democracy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 09, 2021, 07:33:53 PM
BB, writing about disenfranchisement is not being contrarian.  It is falling in line with centuries of people who feel that giving the vote "to them" is horrible because they are dumb, they are going to make decisions we wouldn't make, and most horribly they are not us.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 09, 2021, 07:52:44 PM
Resident aliens are disenfranchised.  Illegal aliens are disenfranchised.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 09, 2021, 09:32:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 09, 2021, 06:59:05 PM
- he makes the point that most Americans are dumb and so, if more of them vote, they would just vote ignorantly. This may be true, but there is no easy way of separating out the dumb from the smart, and historically, such methods as were used were used to discriminate against the poor and non-white - current events have proven that many dumb and/or insane voters are white and not poor (look at Trump voters).
Most Trump voters are white, but they are often poorer than most white democratic voters.  Or they hide their wealth very, very, very well.
Republican donors&opinion leaders are anoter matter entirely though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 09, 2021, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 09, 2021, 07:52:44 PM
Resident aliens are disenfranchised.  Illegal aliens are disenfranchised.
Both knew the terms when they chose their new country, they weren't born into it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 09, 2021, 09:59:32 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 09, 2021, 09:53:02 PM
Both knew the terms when they chose their new country, they weren't born into it.

So does a person about to commit a felony.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 09, 2021, 10:27:51 PM
I am not sure that his point is that there are disenfranchised people in the US, but rather that more disenfranchisement would be better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 09, 2021, 10:36:16 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 09, 2021, 09:32:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 09, 2021, 06:59:05 PM
- he makes the point that most Americans are dumb and so, if more of them vote, they would just vote ignorantly. This may be true, but there is no easy way of separating out the dumb from the smart, and historically, such methods as were used were used to discriminate against the poor and non-white - current events have proven that many dumb and/or insane voters are white and not poor (look at Trump voters).
Most Trump voters are white, but they are often poorer than most white democratic voters.  Or they hide their wealth very, very, very well.
Republican donors&opinion leaders are anoter matter entirely though.

Thing is, this isn't actually the case. Trump voters tended to be economically better off than average.  https://www.google.ca/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/amp/





Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 09, 2021, 10:54:31 PM
Quote from: PDH on April 09, 2021, 10:27:51 PM
I am not sure that his point is that there are disenfranchised people in the US, but rather that more disenfranchisement would be better.

He points out that we disenfranchise minors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 09, 2021, 11:01:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 09, 2021, 10:54:31 PM
Quote from: PDH on April 09, 2021, 10:27:51 PM
I am not sure that his point is that there are disenfranchised people in the US, but rather that more disenfranchisement would be better.

He points out that we disenfranchise minors.
Again, I am seeing his point not in that there are disenfranchised people, but that there should be more people disenfranchised.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 10, 2021, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: PDH on April 09, 2021, 11:01:14 PM
Again, I am seeing his point not in that there are disenfranchised people, but that there should be more people disenfranchised.

He certainly doesn't come out and say he'd like to disenfranchize some voters, either particular groups or in general.

What I think he is saying is that disenfranchisement is not quite the sacred talisman that Democrats make it out to be.  Hence the mention of minors not voting.

I personally think Democrats are dead wrong on the voter ID issue.  We inconvenience voters through the registration process.  There are plenty of people out there who don't register because it's too much of a hassle.  Yet we generally all agree that the certainty gained about a voters place of residence is worth the trade off.  There is nothing preventing us from doing that on the honor system, like we do now (or used to do before states passed voter ID laws).  Dude shows up to vote, signs his name on a slip saying he "certifies under penalty of perjury" that he does in fact live in this voting district.

I mentioned in the primary thread that Iowa not requires you to print your driver's license number on absentee ballot request forms and on whatever form that is you fill out to participate in a primary.  Maybe it's a change of registration, because I had to change from Republican to Democrat for this last primary. 

Everybody just filled it out.  No one ranted about the great injustice.  There were no news stories of weeping would-be voters unable to participate because they didn't have $5 to get a non driving ID.  It's just not that big a deal.

I'm sure someone will trot out the old chestnut that the number of people caught cheating is vanishingly small.  To which I would ask, as I have several times in the past, how would you go about catching people?  If you got assigned the job of catching every person who didn't vote correctly, how would you go about doing it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 10, 2021, 02:03:37 AM
I have read the article. It's a kooky rant that fails to present a sound argument. Among other things because it ignores key aspects of the question of democracy. I can only guess why he wants to disenfranchise significant parts of the population.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 10, 2021, 06:03:48 AM
What would be a coherent argument (and one I would agree with) would be shifting from "why not fewer voters" to "lets take power away from voters".

Just as he points out that the USSC and Bill of Rights have taken important decisions away from voters and we have generally accepted this as a positive, there isn't a need to elect judges, sheriffs, mosquito control guys, etc. We could also eliminate layers of elected government. In addition to federal and state, there is also the local city and the local county. Plus there are other areas of autonomy that involve their own districts, like school districts, with their own elected officials.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 10, 2021, 10:14:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 10, 2021, 01:21:52 AM

What I think he is saying is that disenfranchisement is not quite the sacred talisman that Democrats make it out to be. 

Then he is either an idiot or a malicious manipulator.  No rational person would fail to recognize that the disenfranchisement efforts of the GOP are designed to try to limit the vote to Blacks.

QuoteI personally think Democrats are dead wrong on the voter ID issue.  We inconvenience voters through the registration process.  There are plenty of people out there who don't register because it's too much of a hassle.  Yet we generally all agree that the certainty gained about a voters place of residence is worth the trade off.  There is nothing preventing us from doing that on the honor system, like we do now (or used to do before states passed voter ID laws).  Dude shows up to vote, signs his name on a slip saying he "certifies under penalty of perjury" that he does in fact live in this voting district.

I mentioned in the primary thread that Iowa not requires you to print your driver's license number on absentee ballot request forms and on whatever form that is you fill out to participate in a primary.  Maybe it's a change of registration, because I had to change from Republican to Democrat for this last primary.

Everybody just filled it out.  No one ranted about the great injustice.  There were no news stories of weeping would-be voters unable to participate because they didn't have $5 to get a non driving ID.  It's just not that big a deal.

I'm sure someone will trot out the old chestnut that the number of people caught cheating is vanishingly small.  To which I would ask, as I have several times in the past, how would you go about catching people?  If you got assigned the job of catching every person who didn't vote correctly, how would you go about doing it?


And yet, just to your North there is a country which goes out of its way to make voting easier - including allowing people, on the honour system, to swear that they are entitled to vote.  So when you speak of a "we" who accept whatever restrictions you have in mind, I cannot help but think you are referring to an uninformed group within your country.

The main difference between our countries is that Federal voting rules are governed by an independent body and not decided by self serving politicians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on April 10, 2021, 10:16:25 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 10, 2021, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: PDH on April 09, 2021, 11:01:14 PM
Again, I am seeing his point not in that there are disenfranchised people, but that there should be more people disenfranchised.

He certainly doesn't come out and say he'd like to disenfranchize some voters, either particular groups or in general.

What I think he is saying is that disenfranchisement is not quite the sacred talisman that Democrats make it out to be.  Hence the mention of minors not voting.

I personally think Democrats are dead wrong on the voter ID issue.  We inconvenience voters through the registration process.  There are plenty of people out there who don't register because it's too much of a hassle.  Yet we generally all agree that the certainty gained about a voters place of residence is worth the trade off.  There is nothing preventing us from doing that on the honor system, like we do now (or used to do before states passed voter ID laws).  Dude shows up to vote, signs his name on a slip saying he "certifies under penalty of perjury" that he does in fact live in this voting district.

I mentioned in the primary thread that Iowa not requires you to print your driver's license number on absentee ballot request forms and on whatever form that is you fill out to participate in a primary.  Maybe it's a change of registration, because I had to change from Republican to Democrat for this last primary. 

Everybody just filled it out.  No one ranted about the great injustice.  There were no news stories of weeping would-be voters unable to participate because they didn't have $5 to get a non driving ID.  It's just not that big a deal.

I'm sure someone will trot out the old chestnut that the number of people caught cheating is vanishingly small.  To which I would ask, as I have several times in the past, how would you go about catching people?  If you got assigned the job of catching every person who didn't vote correctly, how would you go about doing it?

"That old chestnut". Hi-lare-eye-us.

The point is not whether the requirements, absent any context, are overly onerous or not.

The point is that they are not being put into place because anyone believes that the requirements are not onerous enough, or that there is a problem that needs to be solved.

Nobody believes that. Even you don't believe that.

They are being put into place because the GOP believes that by doing so, they can discourage people from voting, and if they are careful about HOW they put these requirements into place, they can successfully discourage more people who tend to vote democrat rather then republican.

They don't believe, none of them, that the net result will be a reduction in invalid voting that will be greater then the reduction in valid voting among Democrats. That is not the intent, and it is the intent that is the point. This is not happening in a vacuum. Anymore than perfectly reasonable laws about having to sign your name legibly happened in a vacuum. I am sure at that time, people made the *exact same arguments* about how can you possibly object to someone simply signing their name to vote????

All of the people in favor of and defending these laws understand perfectly well what the intent is behind them - exactly as well as those who oppose them. It is to discourage voting in order to help the GOP get elected without having to actually appeal to more voters. All the crap about voter identification and election security is complete bullshit, and nobody involved believes it one bit. Not those who are in favor of these bills anymore than those who oppose them. The difference is completely in what they want from their political system.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 10, 2021, 10:44:40 AM
The Republican party is now firmly anti-democratic, they oppose the republic and favour an 'elected monarchy'.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 11, 2021, 01:28:04 AM
Quote from: Zanza on April 09, 2021, 05:08:32 PM
Why would the Bill of Rights be beyond the power of voters? I thought congress can pass constitutional amendment and then the state legislatures can ratify these? That's how the Bill of Rights was originally created as well...

Yeah theoretically there could be 10 new amendments that repeal the entire Bill of Rights.

Practically even repealing one of them would be almost impossible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 13, 2021, 12:47:39 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172735122_4154955774536308_4686619506279205409_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=EIyGVKNrDaEAX-kFTq0&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3c867dfe33d7a78568df839dc85ecd83&oe=609BC517)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 13, 2021, 12:51:03 PM
At one point did they cease to be "absolute"? If the idea is that the Supreme Court cannot make Constitutional rulings and instead it should be done by mob decision on Twitter I think that is a bad idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on April 13, 2021, 12:56:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 13, 2021, 12:51:03 PM
At one point did they cease to be "absolute"?

It likely stems from something that Biden has been emphasizing a number of times recently, most notably in regards to the 2nd Amendment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 13, 2021, 04:51:02 PM
Which amendment are they complaining about?
Somehow I doubt it's the second... But will take it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 13, 2021, 05:03:57 PM
Of course it's the second.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 13, 2021, 05:23:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 13, 2021, 12:51:03 PM
At one point did they cease to be "absolute"? If the idea is that the Supreme Court cannot make Constitutional rulings and instead it should be done by mob decision on Twitter I think that is a bad idea.

They ceased to be absolute when, in DC vs Heller (2008), the USSC ruled that the portion of the second amendment that read "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" was no longer valid.  The USSC now holds that the Second Amendment reads only "The right of people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 14, 2021, 12:21:03 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/171371085_2836064373326390_4868202564830201977_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=UOMCSJRI8hEAX82a3rQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c659e429d469327268b2d7ffef739c34&oe=609D654C)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/171213125_6016189851739879_2477004498234765091_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=RpJCSToyaJYAX9_bru8&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ff0f3e8fe048f1c3528f3d1684ca2ed4&oe=609A1E34)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on April 14, 2021, 01:18:01 AM
Isn't your sister a nurse Syt?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 14, 2021, 01:21:34 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on April 14, 2021, 01:18:01 AM
Isn't your sister a nurse Syt?

Posted by the other sister who "can't use a mask because she can't breathe with it."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 14, 2021, 01:38:43 AM
Is that Anjelica Huston? I doubt she said that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 14, 2021, 03:02:29 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 14, 2021, 01:38:43 AM
Is that Anjelica Huston? I doubt she said that.

My sisters are fond of sharing edgy "memes" that have "edgy" characters - often witches, Addams family, and - very popular - Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn which has quite significantly soured me on the DC movies she appears in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 14, 2021, 10:32:15 PM
Public health and hygiene are bad now? I just...don't...get it. Go live in a 3rd world country where society cannot afford those things and see how privileged you are you miserable shit.

And all I see is a lady giving cops the bird, not shooting them. If cops were just out flipping people off I don't think we would be that upset...though that would be rather unprofessional of theme. Funny how the Constitutional Rights of citizens should be taken away if they act bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 14, 2021, 10:59:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 14, 2021, 03:02:29 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 14, 2021, 01:38:43 AM
Is that Anjelica Huston? I doubt she said that.

My sisters are fond of sharing edgy "memes" that have "edgy" characters - often witches, Addams family, and - very popular - Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn which has quite significantly soured me on the DC movies she appears in.
if it helps, Harley Quinn is very anti-authority :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 14, 2021, 11:07:27 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 14, 2021, 03:02:29 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 14, 2021, 01:38:43 AM
Is that Anjelica Huston? I doubt she said that.

My sisters are fond of sharing edgy "memes" that have "edgy" characters - often witches, Addams family, and - very popular - Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn which has quite significantly soured me on the DC movies she appears in.

Yeah I don't understand posting memes with quotes with pictures of people who didn't say the quote. I mean WTF is that? They are not even funny meme-able pictures, just them looking at you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 14, 2021, 11:29:17 PM
I get it.  The person in the picture has an expression the person posting would be expressing if it were a different medium.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 15, 2021, 12:02:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2021, 11:07:27 PM
Yeah I don't understand posting memes with quotes with pictures of people who didn't say the quote. I mean WTF is that? They are not even funny meme-able pictures, just them looking at you.

The characters in the memes are avatars. They are what the posters imagine themselves as. In the case of Morticia and Harley: powerful, sexy, non-conventional, dangerous, rebellious, insightful in a way not appreciated by the mainstream.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 15, 2021, 07:29:08 AM
Its amazing how even 4 years of Trump didn't shake the unwavering belief of boot lickers that they're the rebels.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 21, 2021, 08:36:04 AM
Golly good that Syt's sisters have gone so quiet of the George Floyd case and verdict.  :cool:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 21, 2021, 08:40:58 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 21, 2021, 08:36:04 AM
Floyd George

Being cute or don't know his name?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on April 21, 2021, 08:56:16 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 21, 2021, 08:40:58 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 21, 2021, 08:36:04 AM
Floyd George

Being cute or don't know his name?

This is Mongers.  Expecting proper sentence structure and details is expecting too much. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 21, 2021, 09:46:53 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 21, 2021, 08:40:58 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 21, 2021, 08:36:04 AM
Floyd George

Being cute or don't know his name?

Having to 'type' on a small phone screen isn't conducive to clear posts.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 21, 2021, 11:28:22 AM
IIRC Syt's relatives were sympathetic to Floyd's plight before Antifa and BLM started burning the country down or something like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on April 21, 2021, 11:54:51 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 21, 2021, 08:36:04 AM
Golly good that Syt's sisters have gone so quiet of the George Floyd case and verdict.  :cool:
Syt has not been here for a while. Would be a shame if the Covid depression has caught up with him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on April 24, 2021, 11:36:42 AM
Seen on Twitter:

"My organization has hidden the gender of 5 babies around the city. We are going to reveal the gender of one every hour until our demands have been met"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 25, 2021, 04:07:16 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 26, 2021, 11:52:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PP3Erpr.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 26, 2021, 11:57:21 AM
LOL indeed.
Excellent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 27, 2021, 08:15:50 AM
Quote from: Jacob on April 26, 2021, 11:52:31 AM
Trump Lost Lol photo.

:lol:

Indeed, and excellent find Syt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 27, 2021, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 27, 2021, 08:15:50 AM
Indeed, and excellent find Syt.

What did I do? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on April 27, 2021, 08:23:04 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 27, 2021, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 27, 2021, 08:15:50 AM
Indeed, and excellent find Syt.

What did I do? :unsure:

Oops sorry, it was Jacob who posted the photo.  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 28, 2021, 02:18:04 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/a4jwao2omtv61.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=87f8116ae97dc95ab005dcfa997019498d0a5c4b)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 28, 2021, 02:23:01 PM
 :secret: The correct answer is "No".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 28, 2021, 02:50:06 PM
Maybe if it is only gradually killing you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 28, 2021, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 28, 2021, 02:50:06 PM
Maybe if it is only gradually killing you.

The dependent clause is in the past tense. :nerd:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 28, 2021, 03:57:41 PM
Having been in an accident that resulted in your birth is a lot more common.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on April 28, 2021, 04:02:52 PM
I dunno.  If one had an accident that resulted in one's own birth, it may be time to put away the time machine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 28, 2021, 10:21:29 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 28, 2021, 02:23:01 PM
:secret: The correct answer is "No".

Most of the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 29, 2021, 09:48:15 AM
QuoteOne of best posts I read in recent memory.

In reference to the Columbus police shooting.

"What should be done is a federal probe into Democrats destroying the education system that they have controlled in inner cities for over half a century to produce multi-generational functional illiteracy rates over 40% in almost all of them.

You cannot expect functional illiterates to understand that life choices sometimes leads to life ending. Illiterates are ruled by emotion, not reason.

Republicans did not build this, Democrats did."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 29, 2021, 10:09:24 AM
I am glad to see statements calling for improvements to public education.

I had not noticed anybody else making connections between specifically "inner city" education quality and these shootings though. It almost suggests they are claiming it is mostly black people doing the shootings...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 29, 2021, 10:28:05 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 29, 2021, 10:09:24 AM
I am glad to see statements calling for improvements to public education.

I had not noticed anybody else making connections between specifically "inner city" education quality and these shootings though. It almost suggests they are claiming it is mostly black people doing the shootings...

Isn't "inner city" thinly veiled code for "them blacks"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 29, 2021, 10:29:30 AM
Very thinly veiled yes. They are not talking about urban hipsters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 29, 2021, 10:31:46 AM
How are public schools funded in the US? And who's holding the purse strings?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on April 29, 2021, 10:34:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 29, 2021, 10:31:46 AM
How are public schools funded in the US? And who's holding the purse strings?

IIRC school districts in the US are financed via the residents' property taxes. So, poor areas have poor school districts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 29, 2021, 10:39:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 29, 2021, 10:31:46 AM
How are public schools funded in the US? And who's holding the purse strings?

Um...well...in Texas it is supposed to be funded through local property taxes with an elected school board controlling the funds for each school district. In practice it is absurdly more complicated than that with the state taking a lot of local taxes to give to poorer districts and there is lots of state control that goes with that. Then you have federal money and control of that money by federal agencies.

And often you will have some private philanthropic fund that is providing some sorts of funding and they also have a large say in how those funds are used.

So like everything involving money and power in the United States it is...hard to say really.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 29, 2021, 10:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 29, 2021, 10:34:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 29, 2021, 10:31:46 AM
How are public schools funded in the US? And who's holding the purse strings?

IIRC school districts in the US are financed via the residents' property taxes. So, poor areas have poor school districts.

I would be surprised if it works that way in all 50 states though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 29, 2021, 11:20:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 29, 2021, 10:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 29, 2021, 10:34:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 29, 2021, 10:31:46 AM
How are public schools funded in the US? And who's holding the purse strings?

IIRC school districts in the US are financed via the residents' property taxes. So, poor areas have poor school districts.

I would be surprised if it works that way in all 50 states though.
It works that way in California and Massachussets, from what I've been told.

I think it used to be this way in Canada up 'til the 50s.  Now, it's all funded by provinces.  Federal government transfers money for health&education to provinces.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 29, 2021, 11:26:03 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 29, 2021, 11:20:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 29, 2021, 10:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 29, 2021, 10:34:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 29, 2021, 10:31:46 AM
How are public schools funded in the US? And who's holding the purse strings?

IIRC school districts in the US are financed via the residents' property taxes. So, poor areas have poor school districts.

I would be surprised if it works that way in all 50 states though.
It works that way in California and Massachussets, from what I've been told.

I think it used to be this way in Canada up 'til the 50s.  Now, it's all funded by provinces.  Federal government transfers money for health&education to provinces.

Over half of the school funding in California comes from the state - throw in Federal money and that is about 2/3 of the total.  This is in part because California regulate property taxes (Proposition 13) and after 1978 the state had to step up funding.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 29, 2021, 11:31:09 AM
The low property taxes of California is why if I lived in California, and everything else remained the same, I would pay substantially less tax than I currently pay in Texas. So when you hear people complaining about the high taxes over there, they really only get you if you make shitloads of money every year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 29, 2021, 11:39:38 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 29, 2021, 11:31:09 AM
The low property taxes of California is why if I lived in California, and everything else remained the same, I would pay substantially less tax than I currently pay in Texas. So when you hear people complaining about the high taxes over there, they really only get you if you make shitloads of money every year.

Exactly - a lot of folks who moved out of state are unpleasantly surprised at things like their property valuations going up more than 1% each year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 29, 2021, 02:10:40 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/177959431_10218565580106791_3746675200001871488_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=QFYKenGVxSgAX8DUNIA&_nc_oc=AQlr6eIw8rMZ7nhrqkeGBYxuhyyl9t0jfv6G_SWJHhKq6mP8VZswn0h1psU7ESOSUYg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2a77e832e288ef8b7c079c4a138d76a4&oe=60B0C027)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on April 29, 2021, 02:38:56 PM
I ruin my restroom just fine without the help of liberals, thanks. Credit where it's due, fuck.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 29, 2021, 02:42:47 PM
He left off Dr. Seuss.

Fake patriot!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on April 29, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
Now I really want to know which 9 states have been ruined.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on April 29, 2021, 02:46:14 PM
My god they are a bunch of crybabies.  Liberals ruined the NFL fair and square.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on April 29, 2021, 02:48:11 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 29, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
Now I really want to know which 9 states have been ruined.

California, Guam, D.C., Puerto Rico, Denial, The Nile, Missouri (though I'll be dead in the cold, cold ground), Chicago, and LA.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 30, 2021, 01:30:53 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 29, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
Now I really want to know which 9 states have been ruined.

Disarray, confusion, denial, shock, war, disrepair, disorganization, being "in a", and the place in Denmark where something is rotten.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on April 30, 2021, 01:42:37 PM
You left out "fugue".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 30, 2021, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 29, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
Now I really want to know which 9 states have been ruined.
South Carolina, Virginia, North Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas.  Possibly Arkansas and Tennessee too, since they said "at least" 9.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 30, 2021, 09:24:25 PM
Nope, conservatives have ruined those states.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 01, 2021, 10:55:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/180762438_10222604287153503_3414169673104881363_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=luHFeUmmZTUAX8V3Zh6&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=75b4f6ab1a18f395e8dd9f1af0c9979e&oe=60B40FF3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on May 01, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
But he lost in 2020...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2021, 02:16:57 PM
I think Hunter's drug of choice is powder, not rock.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 03, 2021, 10:09:07 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2021, 02:16:57 PM
I think Hunter's drug of choice is powder, not rock.  :hmm:

You can't expect these political memes to get every little detail right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 03, 2021, 10:17:44 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2021, 02:16:57 PM
I think Hunter's drug of choice is powder, not rock.  :hmm:

He admits to smoking crack in his own book, apparently.

I didn't know about the stripper, but yup - apparently he fathered a little girl born in 2018 with a DC stripper.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 03, 2021, 11:10:07 AM
Quote from: Barrister on May 03, 2021, 10:17:44 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2021, 02:16:57 PM
I think Hunter's drug of choice is powder, not rock.  :hmm:

He admits to smoking crack in his own book, apparently.

I didn't know about the stripper, but yup - apparently he fathered a little girl born in 2018 with a DC stripper.

Scandalous! Impeach!  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 05, 2021, 10:31:44 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/178378248_10157585323446090_3621481451649027062_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=95SkriplJ3sAX_bI0Kr&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9eff796bbb3920498b8aef49a5ed0cf1&oe=60B9D6BB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on May 05, 2021, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 05, 2021, 10:31:44 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/178378248_10157585323446090_3621481451649027062_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=95SkriplJ3sAX_bI0Kr&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9eff796bbb3920498b8aef49a5ed0cf1&oe=60B9D6BB)

Looks like a distant shot of dune in the first panel and Paul Atreides in the second. Didn't know your sisters were Harkonnen supporters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 05, 2021, 02:50:02 PM
That's John Kerry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 05, 2021, 02:51:01 PM
That's Jay Leno.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 05, 2021, 03:00:14 PM
I don't think so.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2021, 03:03:28 PM
The sidekick from Scooby Doo?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 03:08:44 PM
That is in the Burns documentary on the Vietnam war - so there is some hope someone involved in the making of that meme watched at least some of it and maybe learned something....

Ok, way too optimistic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
The meme doesn't make a lot of sense.

I mean - I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam and that he testified about his experiences to Congress.

And I know that Donald Trump was a traitor who used fraud to get out of service and then mocked those who served.

But that panel implies that John Kerry accused Trump of being a traitor back in 1971 and I'm pretty sure that didn't happen back then.  We could always check the transcript to make sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 05, 2021, 03:35:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
The meme doesn't make a lot of sense.

I mean - I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam and that he testified about his experiences to Congress.

And I know that Donald Trump was a traitor who used fraud to get out of service and then mocked those who served.

But that panel implies that John Kerry accused Trump of being a traitor back in 1971 and I'm pretty sure that didn't happen back then.  We could always check the transcript to make sure.

I am aware your post is satirical.

As I understand it the serious argument against Kerry wasn't the Swift Boat stuff, but his very vocal anti-war activism after his return.  Apparently there were attempts to court-martial him (he was still a reserve officer at the time) because of his actions then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 05, 2021, 03:49:44 PM
I don't get how everybody who did not support every overseas intervention is some kind of traitor. Hell Syt has posted memes from his family before attacking the government's wars.

It was not like losing in Vietnam was some kind of existential crisis for the United States.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 05, 2021, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2021, 03:49:44 PM
I don't get how everybody who did not support every overseas intervention is some kind of traitor. Hell Syt has posted memes from his family before attacking the government's wars.

It was not like losing in Vietnam was some kind of existential crisis for the United States.
It depends.  If they like the war than only traitors oppose it. If they've moved on to other outrage porn then wars are wasteful liberal plots.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 04:01:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 05, 2021, 03:35:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
The meme doesn't make a lot of sense.

I mean - I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam and that he testified about his experiences to Congress.

And I know that Donald Trump was a traitor who used fraud to get out of service and then mocked those who served.

But that panel implies that John Kerry accused Trump of being a traitor back in 1971 and I'm pretty sure that didn't happen back then.  We could always check the transcript to make sure.

I am aware your post is satirical.

As I understand it the serious argument against Kerry wasn't the Swift Boat stuff, but his very vocal anti-war activism after his return.  Apparently there were attempts to court-martial him (he was still a reserve officer at the time) because of his actions then.

He was appearing before a hearing of Congress in that picture.  One would need to have a pretty warped view of the world to take the position that telling ones own government, in a hearing held by that government, about events the government asked you to talk about, is treason.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 05, 2021, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 04:01:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 05, 2021, 03:35:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
The meme doesn't make a lot of sense.

I mean - I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam and that he testified about his experiences to Congress.

And I know that Donald Trump was a traitor who used fraud to get out of service and then mocked those who served.

But that panel implies that John Kerry accused Trump of being a traitor back in 1971 and I'm pretty sure that didn't happen back then.  We could always check the transcript to make sure.

I am aware your post is satirical.

As I understand it the serious argument against Kerry wasn't the Swift Boat stuff, but his very vocal anti-war activism after his return.  Apparently there were attempts to court-martial him (he was still a reserve officer at the time) because of his actions then.

He was appearing before a hearing of Congress in that picture.  One would need to have a pretty warped view of the world to take the position that telling ones own government, in a hearing held by that government, about events the government asked you to talk about, is treason.
The government was run by liberal democrats who love treason. They hate America. They hate Freeodm. They hate God, and they hate the truth, which they can't handle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
Such is the world when people think that winning is everything in politics.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam

This I do not know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam

This I do not know.

Pick up a book
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 05, 2021, 05:03:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 05, 2021, 03:49:44 PM
I don't get how everybody who did not support every overseas intervention is some kind of traitor. Hell Syt has posted memes from his family before attacking the government's wars.
Yeah, Trump kept attacking foreign interventions and he even decided to pull out of Afghanistan.

Quote
It was not like losing in Vietnam was some kind of existential crisis for the United States.
:hmm: You sure about that?  How many movies about the inexistan existential crisis for your country? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 05, 2021, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam

This I do not know.

He was well-decorated (Silver Star, Bronze Star, three Purple hearts), but not unusually so.  He's as heroic as the average guy was, there, I suppose, but likely was bolder than the typical PBR/PCF commander.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on May 05, 2021, 05:56:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam

This I do not know.

Pick up a book

Good idea. I want to learn more about this so I just ordered this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfit_for_Command

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 06:00:34 PM
Please report back what you think of the book after you have read it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 05, 2021, 06:32:27 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 05, 2021, 05:56:41 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam

This I do not know.

Pick up a book

Good idea. I want to learn more about this so I just ordered this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfit_for_Command

When you are done with that, try to find a nonfiction book on the topic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on May 05, 2021, 06:34:08 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 06:00:34 PM
Please report back what you think of the book after you have read it.

I will! It is written by Vietnam veterans so you know it will be good!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 05, 2021, 06:36:16 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 05, 2021, 06:34:08 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 06:00:34 PM
Please report back what you think of the book after you have read it.

I will! It is written by Vietnam veterans so you know it will be good!

Actually, the main author never served a day in his life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 06:52:05 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 05, 2021, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 05, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
I know that John Kerry was a war hero in Vietnam

This I do not know.

He was well-decorated (Silver Star, Bronze Star, three Purple hearts), but not unusually so.  He's as heroic as the average guy was, there, I suppose, but likely was bolder than the typical PBR/PCF commander.

How common would it be to get three Purple Hearts - not trying to suggest you are wrong, I just have no idea how frequently someone would sustain an injury combat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 07:02:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 05, 2021, 03:35:44 PM
As I understand it the serious argument against Kerry wasn't the Swift Boat stuff, but his very vocal anti-war activism after his return.  Apparently there were attempts to court-martial him (he was still a reserve officer at the time) because of his actions then.

I'm sure there were such attempts but that pesky First Amendment thing always seems to get in the way whenever the authoritarian impulse raises it head.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 05, 2021, 07:09:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 06:52:05 PM
How common would it be to get three Purple Hearts - not trying to suggest you are wrong, I just have no idea how frequently someone would sustain an injury combat.

Two of the three were just bad luck (caused in part by the boldness i mentioned).  One was gained under moderately heroic conditions (he violated standing procedures and ran his boat aground because he thought it necessary to protect his crews' lives).  He also got the Silver Star for that one.

Three purple hearts in four months' service (the third one sent him home) is getting wounded at a much higher rate than one would expect, but doesn't necessarily indicate much higher than usual levels of heroism.  The Silver Star might, to some people.  I personally pretty much reserve the title of military hero to those getting the Navy Cross/Distinguished service Cross, or, obviously, The Medal itself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 05, 2021, 07:12:13 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 05, 2021, 05:11:44 PM
He was well-decorated (Silver Star, Bronze Star, three Purple hearts), but not unusually so.  He's as heroic as the average guy was, there, I suppose, but likely was bolder than the typical PBR/PCF commander.

Pretty much anyone who went out on one of those boats is a hero in my book.
You don't have to be Audie Murphy to be a hero; I'm pretty sure Audie Murphy would say something like that if he were still alive.

As for Kerry, when Dole ran against Clinton, it was fair game for Republicans to talk about what Clinton did re Vietnam

But anyone who voted Trump needs to STFU about Vietnam, especially if they want to throw shade on someone who served in combat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 07:59:33 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 05, 2021, 07:09:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 06:52:05 PM
How common would it be to get three Purple Hearts - not trying to suggest you are wrong, I just have no idea how frequently someone would sustain an injury combat.

Two of the three were just bad luck (caused in part by the boldness i mentioned).  One was gained under moderately heroic conditions (he violated standing procedures and ran his boat aground because he thought it necessary to protect his crews' lives).  He also got the Silver Star for that one.

Three purple hearts in four months' service (the third one sent him home) is getting wounded at a much higher rate than one would expect, but doesn't necessarily indicate much higher than usual levels of heroism.  The Silver Star might, to some people.  I personally pretty much reserve the title of military hero to those getting the Navy Cross/Distinguished service Cross, or, obviously, The Medal itself.

Got it, thanks.



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 06, 2021, 11:10:36 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/s640x640/182908292_10208680249079573_6491718036592456909_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=42q4FZ2RRvoAX-ztU2B&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&tp=7&oh=e8573202b2c118991c840f0f50440b33&oe=60B949C2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 06, 2021, 11:11:25 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/182794298_1638815202979953_6227587146903327166_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=y5pDrxW61UAAX91WAYL&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c5442dd9cd67e49213d735c1f4291b37&oe=60B7CEEA)

And I would assume Earnhardt never won a Super Bowl, so I don't get the point of this one. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 06, 2021, 11:25:36 AM
"Ain't Ever"  do people say that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 06, 2021, 11:37:20 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 06, 2021, 11:25:36 AM
"Ain't Ever"  do people say that?

The kind of people who care about who won the Daytona 500 do. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 06, 2021, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: Barrister on May 06, 2021, 11:37:20 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 06, 2021, 11:25:36 AM
"Ain't Ever"  do people say that?

The kind of people who care about who won the Daytona 500 do. ;)

I realize that is the stereotype.  But do people actually say that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2021, 11:52:08 AM
Yes. And those people make memes on the internet as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2021, 11:53:47 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 06, 2021, 11:10:36 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/s640x640/182908292_10208680249079573_6491718036592456909_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=42q4FZ2RRvoAX-ztU2B&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&tp=7&oh=e8573202b2c118991c840f0f50440b33&oe=60B949C2)

Cops are nazis now? I thought we were backing the blue?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 06, 2021, 11:56:09 AM
Though murdering 15K senior citizens in your state is not a federal crime so the FBI wouldn't raid Cuomo -_-
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 06, 2021, 01:56:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 06, 2021, 11:53:47 AM
Cops are nazis now? I thought we were backing the blue?

This is not new.  Jack booted thugs of the ATF.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 06, 2021, 02:14:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 06, 2021, 11:53:47 AM
Cops are nazis now? I thought we were backing the blue?

These are Deep State FBI operatchiks, not proper neighborhood cops.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 06, 2021, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 06, 2021, 11:25:36 AM
"Ain't Ever"  do people say that?

I have heard "ain't never" used unironically.  I ain't never heard "ain't ever."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 06, 2021, 02:53:00 PM
I ain't never taken notes on usage.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on May 06, 2021, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 06, 2021, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 06, 2021, 11:25:36 AM
"Ain't Ever"  do people say that?

I have heard "ain't never" used unironically.  I ain't never heard "ain't ever."

Probably because you ain't never lived in the rural deep south.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 06, 2021, 03:04:40 PM
I have a feeling they won't be defending Guiliani much by the end of the year...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 07, 2021, 12:58:23 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVMJXrBb/mw.jpg)

I suppose my sisters support higher minimum wages all of a sudden.  :hmm: :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2021, 01:05:04 PM
 :pinch:

Brenda Smith is not the sharpest card in the deck.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 07, 2021, 02:10:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2021, 01:05:04 PM
:pinch:

Brenda Smith is not the sharpest card in the deck.

She's a few rotary phones short of telephone exchange, that one.

(Assuming she's against 5G)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 07, 2021, 02:12:51 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 07, 2021, 12:58:23 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVMJXrBb/mw.jpg)

I suppose my sisters support higher minimum wages all of a sudden.  :hmm: :P

Sounds like a call for UBI to me :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 08, 2021, 03:22:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/168022314_3753966274699302_5857562294754334660_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=JoGIk1Y0op8AX8GpC4w&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=47b2e9e19d64f339e717c15d04b14154&oe=60BBC2D5)

:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 08, 2021, 04:20:14 PM
Oh! Self-Nazi-burn! Those are [not with this crowd] rare.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 10, 2021, 01:10:01 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/175722596_10216523313430067_7438899389003714384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=va8VvlcAZFAAX8QEEAH&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=aebc9b6c498ca06c237b83b05e6bba21&oe=60C0485B)

QuoteChad Prather

Women are being exploited at our southern border. Where is the #metoo movement? The borderland is being littered and trashed. Where are the climate activists? Children are being abused and trafficked. Where are the advocates?
Oh that's right! This is the Biden administration.
We must take a stand as Texans because the federal government will not backtrack their policies and be effective. Our nation's border is under siege and we must fight to secure it.
Biden must declare cartels to be international terrorists. The national guard should be deployed in full force. Detect. Detain. Deport. Defend. ICE and border patrol must be allowed to actually do their jobs. Greg Abbott must declare illegals are unwelcome in Texas.
Let's take back our state and our nation. #Prather2022
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 11, 2021, 12:47:18 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/zvYLq53z/su.jpg)

Fun anecdote: when her daughter was in elementary school and said that she was not comfortable saying the pledge of allegiance, she told her that it was fine, and no one would force her to, and that if teachers gave here a hard time, she would talk to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 11, 2021, 12:52:24 AM
A shirt saying that races other than black ones' lives matter?!!!! Can you even imagine?

(https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Nzk3WDc1Nw==/z/ywwAAOSwXQpe1huZ/$_62.JPG?set_id=880000500F)

I am sure that mother would be enraged.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2021, 12:28:55 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/184172965_4053577948034043_7853682079311032613_n.png?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=yv9Q0eCwNCQAX-J-mGP&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=742a16102bf5c08a773209e405fdec1b&oe=60BFF4D8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 06:57:15 AM
Huh?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 12, 2021, 07:06:38 AM
I guess its the usual fallacy that the assault on trans rights is nothing of the sort and its actually the evil left being obsessed with trying to push laws to give trans people extra rights (at the expense of normal people!), and that they can only do one thing at once thus ignore any serious issues in favour of obsessing over she/him/them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 12, 2021, 07:25:40 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 07:06:38 AM
I guess its the usual fallacy that the assault on trans rights is nothing of the sort and its actually the evil left being obsessed with trying to push laws to give trans people extra rights (at the expense of normal people!), and that they can only do one thing at once thus ignore any serious issues in favour of obsessing over she/him/them.
Well the GOP has always been pushing for increased cybersecurity.  Look how they tore apart the last Cybersecurity tzar when he couldn't produce evidence of voter election fraud.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 08:05:17 AM
The only ones talking about the this silly culture war bullshit is Republicans.  Nobody else is even aware this is going on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2021, 11:51:18 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/CKZTQyzH/ons.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2021, 12:02:14 PM
:hmm: Maybe Young Americans should read up on history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 12, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
I don't think the Bolsheviks had done any of those.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 12, 2021, 01:08:25 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 07:06:38 AM
I guess its the usual fallacy that the assault on trans rights is nothing of the sort and its actually the evil left being obsessed with trying to push laws to give trans people extra rights (at the expense of normal people!), and that they can only do one thing at once thus ignore any serious issues in favour of obsessing over she/him/them.

I'm having difficulty parsing this post.

Do you mean their is a fallacious pov that professes to protect the rights of cis people, but is really motivated by bigotry,

or

do you mean that any argument in favor of cis rights that conflicts with trans rights is fallacious?

I personally think the issue of trans people in gender segregated sports is legitimate (I think you have expressed the same before).  I also think the issue of trans people in places like women's shellters is legitimate.  Also not crazy about criminalizing use of the incorrect pronoun, like in Canada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 12, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
I don't think the Bolsheviks had done any of those.

Or any of the Communist regimes that ever existed. It is almost like they just made that up or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
Typically Authoritarian regimes take away rights after they come into power, not before.  Guns have proven extremely ineffective at stopping communists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
Typically Authoritarian regimes take away rights after they come into power, not before.  Guns have proven extremely ineffective at stopping communists.

Having the population armed actually kind of helps Communists seize power :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 12, 2021, 02:23:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 01:48:38 PMIt is almost like they just made that up or something.
you shoud notify them.  Maybe they'll retract their message and apologize.;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 12, 2021, 02:25:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
Typically Authoritarian regimes take away rights after they come into power, not before.  Guns have proven extremely ineffective at stopping communists.

Having the population armed actually kind of helps Communists seize power :hmm:
I'm sure in a few years, some American history books will claim the people rebelled when the British tried to seize their guns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 12, 2021, 02:25:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
Typically Authoritarian regimes take away rights after they come into power, not before.  Guns have proven extremely ineffective at stopping communists.

Having the population armed actually kind of helps Communists seize power :hmm:
I'm sure in a few years, some American history books will claim the people rebelled when the British tried to seize their guns.

See? If the British were still in charge they could keep the Communists at bay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 02:26:14 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 12, 2021, 02:23:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 01:48:38 PMIt is almost like they just made that up or something.
you shoud notify them.  Maybe they'll retract their message and apologize.;)


Only if they read Languish. But if they do I hope they do respond so appropriately.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 12, 2021, 02:25:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
Typically Authoritarian regimes take away rights after they come into power, not before.  Guns have proven extremely ineffective at stopping communists.

Having the population armed actually kind of helps Communists seize power :hmm:
I'm sure in a few years, some American history books will claim the people rebelled when the British tried to seize their guns.


They already make that claim.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 12, 2021, 02:57:25 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.

So say there is a father who gets upset because his daughter has to wrestle a trans.  He is arguing in bad faith?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 03:04:15 PM
Ah going right for the women's sports thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 12, 2021, 03:18:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 12, 2021, 02:57:25 PM

So say there is a father who gets upset because his daughter has to wrestle a trans.  He is arguing in bad faith?
If he's upset about the mere fact they're doing sports with someone who is trans?
Yes. He's just a cunt.

Interesting you go right for wrestling there.
That's part of the problem of how bad faith all this is. It's always the same few examples as a reason why all trans people should be banned from all sports at every level.
Theres absolutely zero interest in the fig leaf of women's safety and other such nonsense. It's all about how much they can deny trans people, and through them push back broader LGBT rights.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 03:22:36 PM
I don't think anybody is saying they should be banned from sports (Well ok somebody probably is...but not people arguing in good faith on this issue). I just think this calls into question the whole point of having women's and men's sports to begin with. If the issue isn't that XY people have an advantage over XX people then why have separate sports to begin with? What is the point? Just segregation based on gender identity for its own sake and no practical reason? Especially with the existence of non-binary people. What are they supposed to do?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 12, 2021, 03:29:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2021, 03:22:36 PM
I don't think anybody is saying they should be banned from sports (Well ok somebody probably is...but not people arguing in good faith on this issue). I just think this calls into question the whole point of having women's and men's sports to begin with. If the issue isn't that XY people have an advantage over XX people then why have separate sports to begin with? What is the point? Just segregation based on gender identity for its own sake and no practical reason? Especially with the existence of non-binary people. What are they supposed to do?

It's not a new issue. Sports governing bodies have been dealing with defining just who is a woman since the mid 20th century. They're constantly changing how they do this as we know gender isn't a simple xx/xy woman/man thing. Bimodal rather than binary.

As said overall its an interesting topic but fundamentally not a big deal to the vast majority of people. It's a manufactured concern. Something the right have identified as a soft target in lgbt rights to suitably enrage the poor and ignorant enough to vote for rich old arse holes who want to impoverish them even more. And to get people worked up about this non issue they have to pretend it's something where the evil left are trying to change things and hurt people's way of life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 12, 2021, 03:37:17 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 03:18:37 PM
If he's upset about the mere fact they're doing sports with someone who is trans?
Yes. He's just a cunt.

Let's say he claims it's about the strength imbalance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 04:19:19 PM
I didn't even know there was girls wrestling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2021, 04:23:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2021, 04:19:19 PM
I didn't even know there was girls wrestling.

Have you been living in a heartland basement?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 12, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 12, 2021, 03:37:17 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 03:18:37 PM
If he's upset about the mere fact they're doing sports with someone who is trans?
Yes. He's just a cunt.

Let's say he claims it's about the strength imbalance.

There's always a strength imbalance in any wrestling match.  No two people are exactly the same strength.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 13, 2021, 01:58:24 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/zv8Qfg7p/bf.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 04:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.

I agree with the motives on the right but still in terms of sports I can very much symphatise with the (theoretical) women who invest their whole life into a physical sport with the understanding that they will be competing against their own sex (i.e. has a realistic chance  of reaching the top), just to be encountering a man who self-declare their chromosomes to have been mistaken.

It should be left to the sport organisations to do as they please. I mean, nobody is making a fuss over boxing matches being organised around weight classes. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 04:42:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 04:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.

I agree with the motives on the right but still in terms of sports I can very much symphatise with the (theoretical) women who invest their whole life into a physical sport with the understanding that they will be competing against their own sex (i.e. has a realistic chance  of reaching the top), just to be encountering a man who self-declare their chromosomes to have been mistaken.

It should be left to the sport organisations to do as they please. I mean, nobody is making a fuss over boxing matches being organised around weight classes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if transwomen are women I don't see how you could ban them from women's sports without twisting yourself into an unflattering knot that smells like bigotry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 04:42:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 04:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.

I agree with the motives on the right but still in terms of sports I can very much symphatise with the (theoretical) women who invest their whole life into a physical sport with the understanding that they will be competing against their own sex (i.e. has a realistic chance  of reaching the top), just to be encountering a man who self-declare their chromosomes to have been mistaken.

It should be left to the sport organisations to do as they please. I mean, nobody is making a fuss over boxing matches being organised around weight classes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if transwomen are women I don't see how you could ban them from women's sports without twisting yourself into an unflattering knot that smells like bigotry.

Well yes either we eliminate the concept of biological sexes altogether or acknowledge they exist, there is no middle ground.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 05:35:45 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 04:42:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 04:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.

I agree with the motives on the right but still in terms of sports I can very much symphatise with the (theoretical) women who invest their whole life into a physical sport with the understanding that they will be competing against their own sex (i.e. has a realistic chance  of reaching the top), just to be encountering a man who self-declare their chromosomes to have been mistaken.

It should be left to the sport organisations to do as they please. I mean, nobody is making a fuss over boxing matches being organised around weight classes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if transwomen are women I don't see how you could ban them from women's sports without twisting yourself into an unflattering knot that smells like bigotry.

Well yes either we eliminate the concept of biological sexes altogether or acknowledge they exist, there is no middle ground.

There have always been people of old privilege that are negatively impacted by their end. The rich kid who trained to become Olympic champion and then they let pros (ie poors) into the Olympics. The white baseball player who grew up in the belief that he wouldn't have to compete with blacks and then they integrate baseball. I don't think top cis-women athletes are fragile creatures who cannot handle change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:57:42 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 05:35:45 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 04:42:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 04:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.

I agree with the motives on the right but still in terms of sports I can very much symphatise with the (theoretical) women who invest their whole life into a physical sport with the understanding that they will be competing against their own sex (i.e. has a realistic chance  of reaching the top), just to be encountering a man who self-declare their chromosomes to have been mistaken.

It should be left to the sport organisations to do as they please. I mean, nobody is making a fuss over boxing matches being organised around weight classes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if transwomen are women I don't see how you could ban them from women's sports without twisting yourself into an unflattering knot that smells like bigotry.

Well yes either we eliminate the concept of biological sexes altogether or acknowledge they exist, there is no middle ground.

There have always been people of old privilege that are negatively impacted by their end. The rich kid who trained to become Olympic champion and then they let pros (ie poors) into the Olympics. The white baseball player who grew up in the belief that he wouldn't have to compete with blacks and then they integrate baseball. I don't think top cis-women athletes are fragile creatures who cannot handle change.

Fine, but in that case a women-men division in sport makes absolutely zero sense. I mean, it never made any sense in a lot of sports, but you can see the argument in sports which are predominantly about physical strength.

If we say, birth sex should be irrelevant for which competition you are allowed into, that's fine with me, but I suspect it won't be fine with a lot of competitors of either sex, and perhaps their preference should be... preferenced on account of their relative numbers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 06:07:47 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:57:42 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 05:35:45 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 04:42:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 04:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.

I agree with the motives on the right but still in terms of sports I can very much symphatise with the (theoretical) women who invest their whole life into a physical sport with the understanding that they will be competing against their own sex (i.e. has a realistic chance  of reaching the top), just to be encountering a man who self-declare their chromosomes to have been mistaken.

It should be left to the sport organisations to do as they please. I mean, nobody is making a fuss over boxing matches being organised around weight classes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if transwomen are women I don't see how you could ban them from women's sports without twisting yourself into an unflattering knot that smells like bigotry.

Well yes either we eliminate the concept of biological sexes altogether or acknowledge they exist, there is no middle ground.

There have always been people of old privilege that are negatively impacted by their end. The rich kid who trained to become Olympic champion and then they let pros (ie poors) into the Olympics. The white baseball player who grew up in the belief that he wouldn't have to compete with blacks and then they integrate baseball. I don't think top cis-women athletes are fragile creatures who cannot handle change.

Fine, but in that case a women-men division in sport makes absolutely zero sense. I mean, it never made any sense in a lot of sports, but you can see the argument in sports which are predominantly about physical strength.

If we say, birth sex should be irrelevant for which competition you are allowed into, that's fine with me, but I suspect it won't be fine with a lot of competitors of either sex, and perhaps their preference should be... preferenced on account of their relative numbers.

If sports want to get rid of the men-women divide then I don't have a problem with it (though I wouldn't do it myself). But if they keep it but don't let all women compete in the women category then that seems to me to be unsound.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 06:57:24 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 06:07:47 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:57:42 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 05:35:45 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 04:42:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 04:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.

I agree with the motives on the right but still in terms of sports I can very much symphatise with the (theoretical) women who invest their whole life into a physical sport with the understanding that they will be competing against their own sex (i.e. has a realistic chance  of reaching the top), just to be encountering a man who self-declare their chromosomes to have been mistaken.

It should be left to the sport organisations to do as they please. I mean, nobody is making a fuss over boxing matches being organised around weight classes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if transwomen are women I don't see how you could ban them from women's sports without twisting yourself into an unflattering knot that smells like bigotry.

Well yes either we eliminate the concept of biological sexes altogether or acknowledge they exist, there is no middle ground.

There have always been people of old privilege that are negatively impacted by their end. The rich kid who trained to become Olympic champion and then they let pros (ie poors) into the Olympics. The white baseball player who grew up in the belief that he wouldn't have to compete with blacks and then they integrate baseball. I don't think top cis-women athletes are fragile creatures who cannot handle change.

Fine, but in that case a women-men division in sport makes absolutely zero sense. I mean, it never made any sense in a lot of sports, but you can see the argument in sports which are predominantly about physical strength.

If we say, birth sex should be irrelevant for which competition you are allowed into, that's fine with me, but I suspect it won't be fine with a lot of competitors of either sex, and perhaps their preference should be... preferenced on account of their relative numbers.

If sports want to get rid of the men-women divide then I don't have a problem with it (though I wouldn't do it myself). But if they keep it but don't let all women compete in the women category then that seems to me to be unsound.

Depends on the definition of "woman" they want to apply though doesn't it. A matter of self-declaration (i.e. a meaningless social construct aimed at confining people to pre-determined and restricted castes of social norms) or a reference to biological sex (a matter of fact except for about 10 people on the entire planet).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 07:04:39 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 06:57:24 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 06:07:47 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:57:42 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 05:35:45 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 13, 2021, 04:42:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 04:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
It's a non issue.
Who qualifies as a woman for the purpose of taking part in high level sport is something the sports themselves have been struggling with since the mid 20th century. It's an interesting topic if you're into sports rules nerdery but nothing to get yourself worked up about. Definitely not a political issue.

And yes. Bigotry is their motive. They often pretend to be about protecting women and other such nonsense but this is a shallow bad faith mask.

The fallacy is that they pretend it's the left trying to push unreasonable rules to change the way things are when in fact its them trying to introduce brand new rules to stop trans people just getting on with their life.

I agree with the motives on the right but still in terms of sports I can very much symphatise with the (theoretical) women who invest their whole life into a physical sport with the understanding that they will be competing against their own sex (i.e. has a realistic chance  of reaching the top), just to be encountering a man who self-declare their chromosomes to have been mistaken.

It should be left to the sport organisations to do as they please. I mean, nobody is making a fuss over boxing matches being organised around weight classes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if transwomen are women I don't see how you could ban them from women's sports without twisting yourself into an unflattering knot that smells like bigotry.

Well yes either we eliminate the concept of biological sexes altogether or acknowledge they exist, there is no middle ground.

There have always been people of old privilege that are negatively impacted by their end. The rich kid who trained to become Olympic champion and then they let pros (ie poors) into the Olympics. The white baseball player who grew up in the belief that he wouldn't have to compete with blacks and then they integrate baseball. I don't think top cis-women athletes are fragile creatures who cannot handle change.

Fine, but in that case a women-men division in sport makes absolutely zero sense. I mean, it never made any sense in a lot of sports, but you can see the argument in sports which are predominantly about physical strength.

If we say, birth sex should be irrelevant for which competition you are allowed into, that's fine with me, but I suspect it won't be fine with a lot of competitors of either sex, and perhaps their preference should be... preferenced on account of their relative numbers.

If sports want to get rid of the men-women divide then I don't have a problem with it (though I wouldn't do it myself). But if they keep it but don't let all women compete in the women category then that seems to me to be unsound.

Depends on the definition of "woman" they want to apply though doesn't it. A matter of self-declaration (i.e. a meaningless social construct aimed at confining people to pre-determined and restricted castes of social norms) or a reference to biological sex (a matter of fact except for about 10 people on the entire planet).

I don't know which definition is best for society, and I know even less about which definition we will actually land on when all is said and done. Whatever the definition is though, I think it's unsound to have a women's category that isn't for all women.

NB: I personally don't care at all which definition is used by society. I don't know enough about the details to have an informed opinion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 13, 2021, 07:50:19 AM
Insistence on letting XY people compete in women's sports is just socially acceptable misogyny imo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 13, 2021, 08:05:20 AM
The thing that always gets forgotten in this is that its not just a case of whether trans people can compete. Sports governing bodies have long grappled with this problem given that we know that gender isn't a binary and when you get to the very top level of sports then slight genetic advantages can really make the difference so women with heavy intersex features pop up more than you might think.

At the moment IIRC the current way things are defined is based on testosterone levels and people with naturally higher testosterone (which will cover most trans people) must take drugs to suppress this.
Doubtless this will change again in the not too distant future.

I've posted this before but I found this video really interesting on the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiCftTLUzCI

QuoteI agree with the motives on the right but still in terms of sports I can very much symphatise with the (theoretical) women who invest their whole life into a physical sport with the understanding that they will be competing against their own sex (i.e. has a realistic chance  of reaching the top), just to be encountering a man who self-declare their chromosomes to have been mistaken.
There's a lot more to sex than chromosomes.  And again here be wary of the lies of the regressive right, that some guy can just wake up and declare himself a woman and enter a woman's tournament. Nobody wants that.
I guess here too you've got to consider say the person who lives for basketball and trains all their life for it...but who is just 160cm tall.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 13, 2021, 07:50:19 AM
Insistence on letting XY people compete in women's sports is just socially acceptable misogyny imo.
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 13, 2021, 09:00:29 AM
Laugh all you want. You're basically telling XX people who want a space where they can excel as athletes "get good".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 09:05:21 AM
Tyr what else is there to somebody's sex than chromosomes? You might mean gender.

And you say people shouldn't just decide one morning they are women and be able to compete in women's sports so I don't think you are on a different opinion here than the ones you criticise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 13, 2021, 09:05:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 13, 2021, 01:58:24 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/zv8Qfg7p/bf.jpg)

I mean none of those situations have changed at all but ok.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 13, 2021, 09:41:23 AM
QuoteTyr what else is there to somebody's sex than chromosomes? You might mean gender.
A lot. Sex is bimodal rather than binary.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

Quote
And you say people shouldn't just decide one morning they are women and be able to compete in women's sports so I don't think you are on a different opinion here than the ones you criticise.
No. That's the strawman they use to make it easier to attack trans rights. Nobody actually believes that though. Nobody thinks a random guy can show up to a woman's sports event and go "I'm a woman now, you have to let me compete" however somebody who is very definitely trans, full psych eval in place, is taking treatment, etc.... they shouldn't be excluded from women's social events.
This is where this thing is able to become so toxic, so many people aren't interested in genuine solutions and compromise. Those who get worked up about it think THEM are trying to give trans people the rights to do whatever they want whilst they want to block trans people from doing anything.
There obviously is a line somewhere, but nobody cares about finding it.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 13, 2021, 09:00:29 AM
Laugh all you want. You're basically telling XX people who want a space where they can excel as athletes "get good".
Oh, you were being serious? I honestly thought you were joking because that's such a cliched off the shelf TERFy bad faith argument, the whole "No, you're the sexist/racist/whatever!" defence of people indulging in hate.
This has very little to do with people who want to excel at a sport, its dishonest to focus on this extreme. Its about people fundamentally taking part in sport, having options to socialise and keep in shape. Picked on because its such a minor part of life where they believe they can find a chink in the armour of LGBT rights where they can drive in a wedge.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 13, 2021, 10:05:44 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 13, 2021, 09:41:23 AM
QuoteTyr what else is there to somebody's sex than chromosomes? You might mean gender.
A lot. Sex is bimodal rather than binary.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

Yes. 1% of the population has intersex characteristics. I don't think anybody was saying otherwise. But nowhere in there does it say sex and chromosomes don't exist only for 1% of the population it is more complicated. But so what?

Quote
No. That's the strawman they use to make it easier to attack trans rights. Nobody actually believes that though. Nobody thinks a random guy can show up to a woman's sports event and go "I'm a woman now, you have to let me compete" however somebody who is very definitely trans, full psych eval in place, is taking treatment, etc.... they shouldn't be excluded from women's social events.

But we are not talking social events. We are talking about competitive sports where careers and money and opportunities are on the line. And there is no requirement, that I am aware of, that a trans person has to take treatments or get a psych evaluation. You seem to be the one making strawmen.

Quote
Quote
Laugh all you want. You're basically telling XX people who want a space where they can excel as athletes "get good".
Oh, you were being serious? I honestly thought you were joking because that's such a cliched off the shelf TERFy bad faith argument, the whole "No, you're the sexist/racist/whatever!" defence of people indulging in hate.
This has very little to do with people who want to excel at a sport, its dishonest to focus on this extreme. Its about people fundamentally taking part in sport, having options to socialise and keep in shape. Picked on because its such a minor part of life where they believe they can find a chink in the armour of LGBT rights where they can drive in a wedge.

I don't hate anybody. I am not being dishonest. You are free to launch every personal attack you want. I am just pointing out the issue with big time athletics. If we are separating serious competitive Olympic type sports into men's and women's groups for social reasons that makes no sense and should stop. Besides most social sports leagues I have ever played in have both men and women competing because, you know, most people like to socialize with their friends and family of all genders. If we are doing it because it is unfair for XX people to compete with XY people then why are we letting XY people compete? What is the purpose of having big time women's sports? Not to mention the fact that at the highest levels of competitive sports people will cheat in every way they can possibly find, the stakes are just really high.

But yeah if we are just talking about the woman's croquet club then yeah I don't think anybody trying to make a big deal about trans people has any reasonable ground to stand on.

This is one tiny fringe issue that has nothing to do with anything else trans people want to do. It only impacts like 0.05% of trans people (well probably much lower, though they are probably famous trans people so there is that). But it is an issue for those of us who care about sports.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 13, 2021, 10:11:07 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 13, 2021, 08:05:20 AM
The thing that always gets forgotten in this is that its not just a case of whether trans people can compete. Sports governing bodies have long grappled with this problem given that we know that gender isn't a binary and when you get to the very top level of sports then slight genetic advantages can really make the difference so women with heavy intersex features pop up more than you might think.

Ok well sports should have nothing to do with gender, that is stupid why should sports have anything to do with gender? Why do you have to identify as a gender to play sports? The only identification you should have to have is that of athlete.

If the top women have intersex traits anyway why not just have one sports league for everybody? Why have separate men and women's leagues? What purpose does that serve?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 13, 2021, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 13, 2021, 10:05:44 AM

A lot. Sex is bimodal rather than binary.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

Yes. 1% of the population has intersex characteristics. I don't think anybody was saying otherwise. But nowhere in there does it say sex and chromosomes don't exist only for 1% of the population it is more complicated. But so what?
[/quote]
Chromosomes exist for them. XX will 99 times out of 100 mean someone is a woman. But this isn't an automatic fact. And even for those who are XX and are women many of them will have features that are more typical of males.

Quote


But we are not talking social events. We are talking about competitive sports where careers and money and opportunities are on the line.

We're talking about sports.
For the majority of people taking part in sport its not life or death career driving stuff. Its about socialisation and fitness.  Focussing on the absolute edge case of competitive level stuff is being dishonest about the issue.

Quote
And there is no requirement, that I am aware of, that a trans person has to take treatments or get a psych evaluation. You seem to be the one making strawmen.
I'm not the world's biggest expert on what trans people go through, however I do know that its not the casual affair that transphobes seem to think.
It differs even from state to state in the US I believe. In the UK before trans people can get any help there is the gatekeeper of seeing a psychologist. To change their legal gender they have to prove they've lived for 2 years as this gender.

Quote
I don't hate anybody. I am not being dishonest. You are free to launch every personal attack you want. I am just pointing out the issue with big time athletics. If we are separating serious competitive Olympic type sports into men's and women's groups for social reasons that makes no sense and should stop. Besides most social sports leagues I have ever played in have both men and women competing because, you know, most people like to socialize with their friends and family of all genders. If we are doing it because it is unfair for XX people to compete with XY people then why are we letting XY people compete? What is the purpose of having big time women's sports? Not to mention the fact that at the highest levels of competitive sports people will cheat in every way they can possibly find, the stakes are just really high.


Except sex isn't a simple xx/xy thing. Watch the video I posted a few posts ago, it really is interesting. Professional athletics have struggled for years in deciding who is allowed to compete in women's events.
There is clearly a line somewhere. This line does not mean any man can just rock up in a dress and sign up for the woman's event, but nor does it mean anybody who doesn't 100% match a genetically pure 'standard template' woman should be banned from taking part in sport at any level.


QuoteBut yeah if we are just talking about the woman's croquet club then yeah I don't think anybody trying to make a big deal about trans people has any reasonable ground to stand on.

This is one tiny fringe issue that has nothing to do with anything else trans people want to do. It only impacts like 0.05% of trans people (well probably much lower, though they are probably famous trans people so there is that). But it is an issue for those of us who care about sports.
Agreed. Looping back to why this discussion first emerged in the thread here... Its because its such a non issue that gets blown up massively.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 10:46:23 AM
When we say professional athletics struggled with it, are there any known examples other than that South African lady who has this bimodal thing going, has the physical build and muscles of a man, looks like a man, has a wife/girlfriend, but insists on competing among women because that's where she would dominate?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 13, 2021, 11:02:59 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 10:46:23 AM
When we say professional athletics struggled with it, are there any known examples other than that South African lady who has this bimodal thing going, has the physical build and muscles of a man, looks like a man, has a wife/girlfriend, but insists on competing among women because that's where she would dominate?
And most importantly is a woman, was raised as a woman, and I've seen no signs that she ever knew she had this genetic abnormality going on until her success became controversial. Also odd to mention the wife part, I don't think being gay factors into anything.

But that there aren't many of them really just shows how much this is a niche nerdy sports issue and shouldn't be allowed to become a political issue . There's a very good argument that even sports bodies shouldn't concern themselves too much with drawing up specific rules and should look at things on a case by case basis.

Ewa Klobukowska and Dutee Chand are the two other really prominent examples that are discussed in the video I linked to. The way professional athletics defines who counts as a woman has changed many times over the years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 11:17:13 AM
But if you say biological men should be allowed into women's sports because trans rights then you are also politicising sports.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 13, 2021, 11:27:50 AM
And if we start politicizing sports, where will that end?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 13, 2021, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 11:17:13 AM
But if you say biological men should be allowed into women's sports because trans rights then you are also politicising sports.
I don't think men should be allowed into women's sports.
And trans people being allowed in sport and it being up to the sports governing body to determine under what conditions is the current default.
Rejecting those who want to change this and introduce unnecessary laws that go down to the lowest level of sport is quite the opposite of politicising it. Just because it doesn't seem to be something important doesn't mean we should roll over for those who have decided to pretend it is a big deal they need to act on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 13, 2021, 12:08:55 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 13, 2021, 11:27:50 AM
And if we start politicizing sports, where will that end?

:lol:

Well good point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on May 13, 2021, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 13, 2021, 11:27:50 AM
And if we start politicizing sports, where will that end?

:D

Hopefully with many of them banned.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 12:30:12 PM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 09:05:21 AM
Tyr what else is there to somebody's sex than chromosomes? You might mean gender.

Have a look at this twitter thread: https://twitter.com/sciencevet2/status/1035246030500061184?lang=en

QuoteSo. Hi new people! Apparently, we're gonna talk about sex. Like physical sex! Because... there's some confusion.
First, sex defined: We're talking physical sex here, not gender. Body parts, hormones, and genetics (and more).
BLUF: BIOLOGICAL sex is a spectrum

Ok, everyone's super familiar with the XX/XY dichotomy, right? Yeah, what we all learned in like... 4th grade? And that's great, it gives you a starting point. But it's... well it's only the very starting point.
The IDEA is, XX is girl, XY is boy, right?

Welllll... that's not totally right. There are XY people, who have ovaries! And give birth! AH! And XX people who have male bodies and functional sperm! Double AH!

These are usually written off as "abnormalities" and indeed, some cases have medical issues. But many don't (like the XY woman giving birth). And this is really only the very very tip of the iceberg of "wait, that doesn't fit into our M or F box unless we make it bigger"

There's a WHOLE HOST of things that can cause all sorts of "weird" things to happen, ranging from genetic (XXY, XYY, Y, X, XX with translocation, XY with deletion) to hormonal (Androgen Insensitivity, Estradiol failure), and disruptors like dioxins.

So, you're a scientist, and you want to research stuff, right? Which means you have to categorize stuff. Without categories, data is hard! So you take allll these people, including the "weird" ones and you plot them on a graph. Logical!

You use all the differences there are, different genetics, different responses to hormones, different effectiveness in signalling pathways, different sizes in Aanteroventral periventricular nucleus (AVPV) (yeah that's a thing) and give everything numbers, add them up.

You get what's called a bimodal distribution (mostly, we'll get to that later) Which looks like this. Those two big peaks are what we call "male" and "female" (even conveniently colored pink for boys and blue for girls - we are using victorian gender colors right?)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dl3yibAU4AA75g3?format=jpg&name=360x360)

Now, when you're trying to look at data, we often group stuff. When we do that with a plot like this, it's called a "histogram." Basically we're breaking down a curved line into discrete "bins." Like this (image stolen from the web).

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dl3zNrcUcAAoNxK?format=jpg&name=360x360)

Traditionally, we've used REALLY BIG bins for this when talking about sex. Basically you either group everything vaguely near a peak into the peak, or you just pretend there's nothing else but the biggest peaks. This makes it super easy, because 2 is simple to do data with.

However, as we've gotten to know more and more about signaling and brains and hormones and started to pay more attention to the outliers where standard stuff just didn't seem to work, we discovered that this isn't a great model to use.

Now I'm not talking feelings here. I'm talking about data. As you start to look at anything interesting, like say the effects of 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-P-dioxin on animals, you start to realize that a 2 bin model doesn't predict your results well.

At first you say, "Well it was just weird." So you redo it, and it still doesn't work. So you look at your model and you say, "Well ok, what if the model's wrong?"
But the model sort of... almost predicts a lot of things, and it worked for years, so...

Some enterprising soul says, "Hey, remember that histogram where we said we'll just model using the peaks?" And everyone goes, "Uh, yeah?" And they say, "What if we... USED that data?" And everyone groans, because complicated data is hard.

But someone sits down and does the work, and lo, wow the model starts to work again. Where TCDD was "randomly" turning some boys into girls but then some girls into boys, now you can see there's a subgroup of what you'd called "female" that responds like the "male"

What's important here is that you haven't MISLABELED males as females. These are functional "females" who can do all the usual "female" things like gestate babies. But they respond to this one endocrine disruptor in a "male" way.

So you add another two categories, call them "Male2" and "Female2" and go on, happy that your model works! You've got 4 sexes now, but you don't really have to tell anyone that, right?

Exceeeept then you remember you've got those XY people that gestate babies. So you add "Intersex1" And then the XX people with penes... and ovaries? Ok, "Intersex2" because all these groups respond differently with signalling and brains when you get into the weeds

And the more you look, the more we LEARN, the more we're able to separate out those fine differences. Depending on what we're doing, we may not care. If a doc is giving you aspirin, it probably isn't a big deal.

But if they're using a steroid on you? Or treating dioxin poisoning? THAT SHIT COULD BE IMPORTANT. It's like saying, "the light's off so the power must not be flowing." It really matters if the light's off because the bulb blew.

If we go back to that histogram plot, we can keep breaking down your biological sex into smaller and smaller differences in brain areas, hormone levels, signalling differences, genetic variances. There's nothing stopping us from binning EVERY INDIVIDUAL into their own bin.

Technically, this wouldn't be "infinite sexes" but 7.4 billion sexes is functionally close for our brains. Now, our medicine isn't advanced enough for THAT level of detail to make any difference. BUT IT MIGHT BE in the future. Individualized medicine!

The thing to remember is that this isn't "new." We're not 'inventing sexes' here. Sex has ALWAYS been this curve. We were just using REALLY BIG bins. And now we're realizing that that's not representative of biology, it's inhibiting understanding of medicine and biology

In case anyone's curious, this isn't ideology. This is because I had to figure out why my data didn't match the prediction. Those rats I mentioned? Yeah, my lab. And lab rats are a really pure genetic monoculture, and they STILL don't fit the two peak model well.

Yes, we looked at other things we could do to make our data fit the existing model, that's how science works! The ONLY way the data fit was if we let "sex" be more than just those two narrow peaks.

Models purpose in science is to predict. If they don't predict correctly, first we check if we've measured the data correctly, and repeat the experiment a couple more times. If it still doesn't fit, we have to look at the model.

Intersex! Because I didn't specifically mention this above.
"Intersex" is a term used to collectively speak of the "middle ground" of biology where people can't easily be binned into those two big "male" and "female" peaks. It can include a large range of biology

It is worth noting that I never talk about transgender in this thread. Intersex is not the same as transgender. You can be one without the other, or be both.

For people who think this is just "outliers"
Current estimates are that the intersex population is at least 2%. We know that's low because there are a lot of "invisibly intersex" people. That means AT LEAST 150 million people in the world.

I apologize for the failure to use the word "intersex" higher up in the discussion. Many people in the middle ground (including the XY person who can carry a child, for example) use this term. I cannot go back and edit the thread, and apologize for my overly clinical description.

Part of the purpose of the thread, which may have failed, was to point out that "intersex" is not a condition, it is not a disease. It's natural with a bimodal distribution. Science not only supports this, it suggests that ignoring intersex people makes your conclusions wrong

Here is a solid explanation of the embryology of sex organs and how that relates to a sex spectrum and intersex people. http://intersexroadshow.blogspot.com/2011/01/phalloclitoris-anatomy-and-ideology.html

A human result of the scientific conclusion that sex is a spectrum and intersex people are a perfectly normal result of nature, is that there is no scientific rationale for medically (or culturally) forcing people into those two peaks.

A note here that I am muting the thread, not because I don't want to respond but because I did not expect it to blow up so much, and I have family and work to take care of. I'll try to wander back, but can't guarantee how much it will be.

Another addition, because a couple people have asked about it.
It's important to note that there are other people who traditionally haven't fallen into the "intersex" category, but also don't fall into the clearly defined peaks either.

For example: XX people with female secondary sex characteristics, and ovaries who won't menstruate and can't carry a child without adding external (exogenous) estrogen. People like this often have difficulties finding good endocrinology care.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 01:13:39 PM
Thanks Jacob. If I wanted to be sceptical I would want to know just how these "assigned numbers" are weighted when deciding on how "intersex" somebody with an unusual chromosome pair vs unusual hormone balance is, and if the 2% estimated intersex contain these non-typically hormoned people. But I definitely am not interested enough so I am just going to accept this as true.

But then, what does this establish about the problem at hand? Should people who want to compete in a given competition (for Tyr's benefit, I am talking about professional sport with actual stake, not Sunday leagues and such) be required to match some genetic and health requirements? That's already the case isn't it, at least in athletics.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 02:09:39 PM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 01:13:39 PM
Thanks Jacob. If I wanted to be sceptical I would want to know just how these "assigned numbers" are weighted when deciding on how "intersex" somebody with an unusual chromosome pair vs unusual hormone balance is, and if the 2% estimated intersex contain these non-typically hormoned people. But I definitely am not interested enough so I am just going to accept this as true.

No problem. It's sort of fascinating, but yeah I'm not digging any deeper either :)

QuoteBut then, what does this establish about the problem at hand? Should people who want to compete in a given competition (for Tyr's benefit, I am talking about professional sport with actual stake, not Sunday leagues and such) be required to match some genetic and health requirements? That's already the case isn't it, at least in athletics.

It establishes that sex isn't a simple binary biological truth, which is one of the "facts" some people are basing their arguments on.

It doesn't inherently suggest a clean and obviously logical solution to the situation, though. I guess there are a few core issues at hand:

If someone has physiological characteristics that puts them outside the archetypal sex characteristic groupings of our traditional sex model, to what degree should that influence their ability to participate in men's/ women's sports?

I expect it'd to centre around characteristics that'd give undue competitive advantage, but how do we determine whether an advantage is "undue" compared to other physical differences?

Like is "you're super tall because you have some intersex characteristics so you can't play women's basketball, but she's super tall for some other reason so that's cool" reasonable or not? Then what about "this other person has the same intersex characteristics as the tall person we disqualified for undue intersex advantages (or whatever you want to call it), but they're not super tall (so no undue advantage) because of it so if they are good at basketball they can still play on womens' teams?" Or is it "yeah, this intersex characteristic sometimes creates a height advantage we consider 'undue', so if you have it you can't play - even if that particular advantage doesn't manifest"? Does it become "this list of intersex characteristics are immaterial to being allowed to compete in womens' sport, but traits on this other list is considered to confer undue advantage and so prevent participation"?

Whereever the line is drawn, how intrusive do we make any inquiry into someone's sex status? Does "you must submit to this batch of tests to prove you're sufficiently female to participate" become standard? That sounds potentially pretty awful to me.

And then bringing it back to trans people. Some of them may be trans because they're really intersex and were put in the wrong binary sex bucket from their perspective. Or maybe not.

I don't have any specific pitch for where to draw the line or how to solve for this, but I think we should try to resolve in ways that are as unbigoted and as fair as possible.

All that said, I think the scenario of "regular dude dresses up as chick just so he can win" is up there with "so now any guy can go into womens' washroom to oogle our daughters just by saying 'I'm really a girl, lol' " as being a constructed scenario (or deliberate trolling action) primarily used to fuel culture war positions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 03:54:40 PM
(https://i.redd.it/ou5za6ys5qy61.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on May 13, 2021, 04:18:00 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 02:09:39 PM
All that said, I think the scenario of "regular dude dresses up as chick just so he can win" is up there with "so now any guy can go into womens' washroom to oogle our daughters just by saying 'I'm really a girl, lol' " as being a constructed scenario (or deliberate trolling action) primarily used to fuel culture war positions.

I think this will definitely happen, and is not at all a constructed scenario.

I think if given the chance, there will always be assholes willing to ruin things for everyone else.

And if there was no rule against men playing in women's sports, it is very much the case that someone will do just that.

If people want to propose new rules to reflect a better understand of gender realities, then it behooves them to also come up with ways of dealing with the completely foreseeable results of those new rules. And I think people can express concern about that in perfectly good faith.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 13, 2021, 04:21:23 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 13, 2021, 04:18:00 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 02:09:39 PM
All that said, I think the scenario of "regular dude dresses up as chick just so he can win" is up there with "so now any guy can go into womens' washroom to oogle our daughters just by saying 'I'm really a girl, lol' " as being a constructed scenario (or deliberate trolling action) primarily used to fuel culture war positions.

I think this will definitely happen, and is not at all a constructed scenario.

I think if given the chance, there will always be assholes willing to ruin things for everyone else.

And if there was no rule against men playing in women's sports, it is very much the case that someone will do just that.

If people want to propose new rules to reflect a better understand of gender realities, then it behooves them to also come up with ways of dealing with the completely foreseeable results of those new rules. And I think people can express concern about that in perfectly good faith.

You're missing the fundamental point that this isn't a case of new rules being introduced to allow trans people to compete. Trans and intersex people being allowed is the default situation.
It's those who are claiming to have concerns about niche scenarios which want to introduce sweeping new rules to change this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 04:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 13, 2021, 04:21:23 PM
You're missing the fundamental point that this isn't a case of new rules being introduced to allow trans people to compete. Trans and intersex people being allowed is the default situation.
It's those who are claiming to have concerns about niche scenarios which want to introduce sweeping new rules to change this.

I honestly don't know what you mean by this.

The first headline case of a transgender competing that I'm aware of was Renee Richards suing for the right to play women's tennis.  If she had to sue then by definition the default was birth women only.

Then up until recently transgender teens really wasn't a thing, so schools didn't have any rules about transgender sports.  It became a thing and some schools introduced rules saying transgenders could (must?) compete in their chosen gender.

So please explain what you mean when you say it's the default.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 13, 2021, 05:04:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 04:31:34 PMThe first headline case of a transgender competing that I'm aware of was Renee Richards suing for the right to play women's tennis.  If she had to sue then by definition the default was birth women only.

Regulations were changed precisely because of her case:

QuoteIn 1976, Richards's gender reassignment was outed by local TV anchor Richard Carlson, the father of Tucker Carlson.[16] Subsequently the United States Tennis Association (USTA), the Women's Tennis Association (WTA), and the United States Open Committee (USOC) required all female competitors to verify their sex with a Barr body test of their chromosomes.[4][7][17] Richards applied to play in the US Open in 1976 as a woman, but refused to take the test, and thus was not allowed to compete in the Open, Wimbledon, or the Italian Open in the summer of 1976.[4]

Richards then sued the United States Tennis Association (USTA), which runs the US Open, in New York state court, alleging discrimination by gender in violation of the New York Human Rights Law.[4][7][17] She asserted that participating in the tournament would constitute "an acceptance of her right to be a woman."[7] Some USTA members felt that others would undergo sex change to enter women's tennis.[4][7] Sports Illustrated called Richards an "extraordinary spectacle", and characterized reactions to her as "varying from astonishment to suspicion, sympathy, resentment, and more often than not, utter confusion."[7] The USOC stated "there is competitive advantage for a male who has undergone a sex change surgery as a result of physical training and development as a male."[7][18] Richards finally agreed to take the Barr body test. The test results were ambiguous. She refused to take it again and was barred from play.[7]

On August 16, 1977, Judge Alfred M. Ascione found in Richards's favor. He ruled: "This person is now a female" and that requiring Richards to pass the Barr body test was "grossly unfair, discriminatory and inequitable, and a violation of her rights."[5][19] He further ruled that the USTA intentionally discriminated against Richards, and granted Richards an injunction against the USTA and the USOC, allowing her to play in the US Open.[5][7] Richards lost to Virginia Wade in the first round of the singles competition, but made it to the finals in doubles.[4][7][17]
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 05:07:29 PM
Fair enough.  A sex test was introduced which didn't exist before.  But by no stretch does that mean that transgender women were allowed to compete prior to that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 13, 2021, 05:09:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 05:07:29 PM
Fair enough.  A sex test was introduced which didn't exist before.  But by no stretch does that mean that transgender women were allowed to compete prior to that.

It follows that, on the absence of any testing, people who identified as females could enter tennis competitions in the female category with no barrier whatsoever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 05:18:01 PM
Quote from: The Larch on May 13, 2021, 05:09:28 PM
It follows that, on the absence of any testing, people who identified as females could enter tennis competitions in the female category with no barrier whatsoever.

By that same logic it also follows that cis males could enter female competitions with no barrier whatsoever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 05:18:01 PM
Quote from: The Larch on May 13, 2021, 05:09:28 PM
It follows that, on the absence of any testing, people who identified as females could enter tennis competitions in the female category with no barrier whatsoever.

By that same logic it also follows that cis males could enter female competitions with no barrier whatsoever.

Cis males typically don't identify as females, so no.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 05:53:32 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 05:39:54 PM
Cis males typically don't identify as females, so no.

The USTA had no tests on gender identification.  Remember I'm using Larch's logic. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 05:58:17 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 05:53:32 PM
The USTA had no tests on gender identification.  Remember I'm using Larch's logic.

Yes, and Larch's logic is:

If someone is self-identifying as female, they were admitted.

Someone who is cis-male does not identify as female, by definition. If someone with a cis-male physiological characteristics self-identify as female, they are not cis-male but a trans-woman.

So no, cis-males could not enter those competitions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 06:00:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 05:58:17 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 05:53:32 PM
The USTA had no tests on gender identification.  Remember I'm using Larch's logic.

Yes, and Larch's logic is:

If someone is self-identifying as female, they were admitted.

Someone who is cis-male does not identify as female, by definition. If someone with a cis-male physiological characteristics self-identify as female, they are not cis-male but a trans-woman.

So no, cis-males could not enter those competitions.

So let's say he just lies,  signs up to the women's competition and say he identifies as female. Does that turn him into a trans-woman?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:02:19 PM
Sometimes rules don't exist because they didn't need to exist.  Things change and now some things that didn't need to get spelled out before need to be spelled out now.  That's how rules and laws work and evolve, there is nothing illegitimate about it.  If you had to have rules for every possible eventuality, you'd have an unwieldy set of tomes for a rule book.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:06:19 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 05:58:17 PM
Someone who is cis-male does not identify as female, by definition. If someone with a cis-male physiological characteristics self-identify as female, they are not cis-male but a trans-woman.

So no, cis-males could not enter those competitions.
You are literally defining away an argument without doing anything in the slightest to honestly address it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 13, 2021, 06:08:09 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 05:18:01 PM
Quote from: The Larch on May 13, 2021, 05:09:28 PM
It follows that, on the absence of any testing, people who identified as females could enter tennis competitions in the female category with no barrier whatsoever.

By that same logic it also follows that cis males could enter female competitions with no barrier whatsoever.

Cis males typically don't identify as females, so no.

No they most certainly typically don't. But if you are a poor 3rd world guy and winning that olympic might set you and your family up for life?

Or, you know, just a crazy competitive athlete who can rationalize anything on the way to victory. I mean most cis males don't willingly take drugs that make their testicles shrink either...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:13:05 PM
Here is a hypothetical question: if Novak Djokovic (name randomly picked, I have no idea what his beliefs are) decides to identify as a woman just to prove a point and enter a women's tournament, is he now a trans-woman?  Is someone's claimed identity so unimpeachable that there is literally nothing objective underpinning it?  And can you even call him out for being an asshole for doing this, or would that be transophobic?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 13, 2021, 06:13:49 PM
I can't imagine there would be many men who would be willing to face the repercussions of becoming a transwoman simply to win a sporting event.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:18:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2021, 06:13:49 PM
I can't imagine there would be many men who would be willing to face the repercussions of becoming a transwoman simply to win a sporting event.
You just need one asshole who thrives on controversy.  Someone ranked 200th on men's side would still be an overwhelming favorite to win the women's tournament.  If someone does it, then that's okay, nothing wrong with it, she won it fair and square?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 06:23:22 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 05:58:17 PM
Yes, and Larch's logic is:

If someone is self-identifying as female, they were admitted.

Someone who is cis-male does not identify as female, by definition. If someone with a cis-male physiological characteristics self-identify as female, they are not cis-male but a trans-woman.

So no, cis-males could not enter those competitions.

That's not Larch's logic.  His logic is that because there were no gender idenfitication tests there were no barriers for trans women to play.

By this same logic since there were no sex identification tests either, there were no barriers for cis men to play on the women's side.

As DGuller points out, when everyone subscribes to the same conventions you don't need rules.  Back then they didn't need explicit rules on vaginas and penises because all the penises undeerstood they only played with other penises.  And vice versa.

The fact there was no explicit rule doesn't mean trans women were allowed to play.  No trans women did play.  Renee Richards tried to play and they made the convention explicit by adopting a rule.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 13, 2021, 06:30:30 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:18:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2021, 06:13:49 PM
I can't imagine there would be many men who would be willing to face the repercussions of becoming a transwoman simply to win a sporting event.
You just need one asshole who thrives on controversy.  Someone ranked 200th on men's side would still be an overwhelming favorite to win the women's tournament.  If someone does it, then that's okay, nothing wrong with it, she won it fair and square?

I don't know.  If I read Larch's thing about case in the 1970's than this transsexuals participating in sports has been legal for nearly 50 year.  It hasn't caused a big enough of a problem that I would actually notice it so far.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 13, 2021, 06:31:51 PM
I'm still trying to process women's wrestling.  How could you do that without every male student coming to watch?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 06:00:39 PM
So let's say he just lies,  signs up to the women's competition and say he identifies as female. Does that turn him into a trans-woman?

We are talking about the past, not hypotheticals. Did this happen? If not, then it didn't happen in which case Larch is correct. If it did happen, we can look at what actually did happen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:33:24 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: Tamas on May 13, 2021, 06:00:39 PM
So let's say he just lies,  signs up to the women's competition and say he identifies as female. Does that turn him into a trans-woman?

We are talking about the past, not hypotheticals. Did this happen? If not, then it didn't happen in which case Larch is correct. If it did happen, we can look at what actually did happen.
But when it actually will happen, people would be pointing out that it wasn't illegal all these years, so obviously this is just transophobia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 06:46:51 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:06:19 PM
You are literally defining away an argument without doing anything in the slightest to honestly address it.

No, I am correcting an error in definitions leading to an erroneous conclusion. It is important to have the definitions correct when formulating an argument.

A cis man pretending to be a woman is not the same as a trans woman. That is factual, not defining away the argument.

If you want to argue that a cis man could have pretended to participate in the past, then that's a matter of the the record. Did anyone do that? What happened?

If Larch is saying trans-women participated with no issues since the 1970s until recently, then no number of hypothetical bogeymen or bogeywomen who trolled the competitions changes that fact. What you have to show if you want to counter that argument is an actual issue that occured. Similarly, Yi's argument that cis men could pretend to be trans and participate doesn't counter Larch's argument at all (that trans women participated with no issues), though if you can find cases of it happening I suppose that would counter Larch's argument if you think that's an issue.

If you want to argue that cis men going forward are going to pretend to be trans women for trolling purposes or to abuse the immigration process or for whatever other reasons, you can do so. And, IMO, we have to balance policy to deal with that (to the extent we want to) against the likelihood of it happening and against impact it has on trans people who are not cis folks "pretending". And ideally we do so in a way that is fair and humane.

Because if the suggestion is "hey let's harm trans and intersex people right now to deal with jerks and process abusers that might show up in the future" I argue that a better course of action is "let's not harm trans and intersex people right now, and at such a time as jerks and process abusers start being a problem let's deal with that then."

Being trans or intersex is not - as I understand it - something that accrues a whole bunch of benefits and additional social benefits right now. I doubt very many people are going to be pretending to be either for very long. It sucks too much. Kind of like how not that many people pretend to be gay for extended periods of time (especially back when homophobia was socially acceptable) just to cash in on the sweet benefits of being perceived as gay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 13, 2021, 06:08:09 PM
No they most certainly typically don't. But if you are a poor 3rd world guy and winning that olympic might set you and your family up for life?

Or, you know, just a crazy competitive athlete who can rationalize anything on the way to victory. I mean most cis males don't willingly take drugs that make their testicles shrink either...

Yeah, what if...?

If these hypotheticals start showing up, maybe we should consider a process to deal with them. Until then, I think we should err on the side on not making it any more sucky to be trans or intersex. Or maybe, consider a process to deal with these potential abuses in the specifics rather than excluding trans and/or intersex folks across the spectrum.

Because while in theory this argument may be about that clever 3rd world guy trying to improve the life of his family (the nerve), in practical application it's going to be about excluding trans Jenny from playing soccer with the other girls on the high school team.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:59:48 PM
I think the reason people are particularly interested in the women's sports angle for this is for two reasons: 

1)  That's the one area where you really have to define who does and doesn't qualify as a woman, you can't wiggle your way out of it with endless pages of noncommittal bullshit.  At some point someone has to pass down a decision on some borderline case.
2)  Just like with other similar matters, people on the wrong side of the, ahem, progressive consensus risk having an outrage machine deployed against them merely for participating in the debate over the question above.

I think the reason that probing around the hypotheticals around the first questions results in testy "has this actually happened at any time" non-answers is that it gets at the heart of intellectual inconsistencies around the current thinking on sex/gender/*some third concept to be invented in the future* issues.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 13, 2021, 07:08:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2021, 06:31:51 PM
I'm still trying to process women's wrestling.  How could you do that without every male student coming to watch?

Having the participants be unattractive and trying to win instead of dry humping each other. Oil wrestling it ain't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 07:08:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 13, 2021, 06:23:22 PM
That's not Larch's logic.  His logic is that because there were no gender idenfitication tests there were no barriers for trans women to play.

By this same logic since there were no sex identification tests either, there were no barriers for cis men to play on the women's side.

As DGuller points out, when everyone subscribes to the same conventions you don't need rules.  Back then they didn't need explicit rules on vaginas and penises because all the penises undeerstood they only played with other penises.  And vice versa.

The fact there was no explicit rule doesn't mean trans women were allowed to play.  No trans women did play.  Renee Richards tried to play and they made the convention explicit by adopting a rule.

Okay, fair enough. If not a single trans woman ever played (not sure how you can ascertain that, though) then yeah. Conversely - and this is how I took Larch's argument - if trans women and intersex individuals played without causing a stir, because no one thought to check and they didn't conveniently identify themselves as such to the public, then they played without incident compared to the proposed situation now where intrusive tests would identify them and prohibit them from playing.

All that said, that still doesn't make a cis man pretending to be a woman a trans woman. DGuller putting on a dress doesn't make him trans. It's just cis guy Dguller in a dress (unless of course DGuller is trans, in which case I apologize. Not putting on the dress wouldn't make her any less trans, though).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on May 13, 2021, 07:10:10 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 13, 2021, 04:21:23 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 13, 2021, 04:18:00 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 02:09:39 PM
All that said, I think the scenario of "regular dude dresses up as chick just so he can win" is up there with "so now any guy can go into womens' washroom to oogle our daughters just by saying 'I'm really a girl, lol' " as being a constructed scenario (or deliberate trolling action) primarily used to fuel culture war positions.

I think this will definitely happen, and is not at all a constructed scenario.

I think if given the chance, there will always be assholes willing to ruin things for everyone else.

And if there was no rule against men playing in women's sports, it is very much the case that someone will do just that.

If people want to propose new rules to reflect a better understand of gender realities, then it behooves them to also come up with ways of dealing with the completely foreseeable results of those new rules. And I think people can express concern about that in perfectly good faith.

You're missing the fundamental point that this isn't a case of new rules being introduced to allow trans people to compete. Trans and intersex people being allowed is the default situation.
It's those who are claiming to have concerns about niche scenarios which want to introduce sweeping new rules to change this.

I don't think the current rules at all state any such thing. I suspect in most places the rules are simply nothing other then "Men/boys cannot play in womens/girls sports" and there isn't any particular definition of what those terms mean, because in 99.999% of cases it simply has never even been under question that those men the gender you were assigned at birth, with the assumption that such assignment was obvious and without even worthy of mention.

I am all for the science behind suggesting that perhaps those assignments in reality are not nearly so clear cut, or immutable, in all cases.

But that does mean we need to think about what that actually means for a society designed around the incorrect assumption that such things are clear cut and immutable.

Simply demanding that the rules include a bunch of people in categories they previously did not, and then insisting that anyone saying otherwise is doing so in bad faith, is arguing in bad faith.

There are things here that need to be worked out. I don't know what the answer is, but I am pretty sure there is a legitimate question to be asked.

Note: I am also sure plenty of people will exaggerate the question and act like assholes about it because they don't want there to be an answer. That is inevitable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 07:41:01 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:59:48 PM
I think the reason people are particularly interested in the women's sports angle for this is for two reasons: 

1)  That's the one area where you really have to define who does and doesn't qualify as a woman, you can't wiggle your way out of it with endless pages of noncommittal bullshit.  At some point someone has to pass down a decision on some borderline case.

Agreed. It's complex, and lines have to be drawn somewhere because either someone is going to be able to participate or not. I'm not sure where or how I'd draw the line myself, but like I said I'd prefer to err on not harming already vulnerable people. On the other hand, I'm not super keen on being hard trolled by alt-right lolstronauts either.

Quote2)  Just like with other similar matters, people on the wrong side of the, ahem, progressive consensus risk having an outrage machine deployed against them merely for participating in the debate over the question above.

Do you think that's happening here right now? Or are you more worried about the larger internet environement?

QuoteI think the reason that probing around the hypotheticals around the first questions results in testy "has this actually happened at any time" non-answers is that it gets at the heart of intellectual inconsistencies around the current thinking on sex/gender/*some third concept to be invented in the future* issues.

I think when it comes to public policy impacting people's lives and potentially causing harm it is pertinent - and indeed logical - to ask yourself what problem you're solving for. Furthermore, it's pertinent and logical to ask yourself how prevalent and how serious the problem you're solving for is and make sure your proposed response is proportional.

Let me preface the next bit with saying I know you're interested in finding a logical, sound conclusion, that this is an interesting intellectual problem to engage with for you, and that you're not making any of your arguments to be disingenuous or anything like that. But when I ask "where has this actually happened" when faced with hypotheticals used to justify rules that will be used to make the lives of intersex and trans people shittier, to me that is very much the same as asking GOP folks enacting voter suppression laws if the types of fraud they're allegedly countering has actually happened (when co-incidentally it suppresses the vote of demographics who tend not to vote for them).

So I can tell you what I'm prioritizing. I'm prioritizing giving young trans and intersex people as much support as possible and removing tools for regressive bigots to socially bludgeoning them with. Kicking trans Jenny off the high school basketball team is shitty, and will hurt her, not kicking her off is not going to result in an arms race of pretend trans girls joining high school teams across the nation preventing cis girls from playing the game. Telling Jalal the transman (this guy here, with a beard and a girlfriend and all (https://www.dr.dk/mitliv/hele-sit-liv-havde-jalal-foelt-sig-fanget-i-den-forkerte-krop-foerst-da-han-maerkede)) that he can't use the men's changeroom is going to cause direct harm to him (not to mention potentially freak out a bunch of cis women when he uses their changeroom - or more realistically, just keep him away from any activity that requires a gender segregated change room).

Personally I'm less worried about the trolls and the scammers. This is because I think they won't be particularly prevalent (it's a lot of work, it will come with social consequences that are mostly undesirable) and because I think it can be dealt with as the cases manifest themselves (which also will have the benefit of allowing us to target to responses to things that actually happen, rather than hypothetical ones which may not and which may cause collateral damage). It may take a bit of adjustment and some cases of getting it wrong, but over time we'll be able to distinguish between someone who is trans and someone who's merely pretending to make a point or scam the system.

That doesn't mean it's not an interesting discussion to figure out exactly where the lines should be drawn in sports, and how to address intellectual inconsistencies. But "has this actually happened" is extremely relevant in determining whether any given proposed solution should be applied.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 07:45:21 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 13, 2021, 07:41:01 PM
Do you think that's happening here right now? Or are you more worried about the larger internet environement?
No, thankfully it's not happening here right now, though to be honest, I self-censor myself anyway because I know that any moment it can change.  However, it has happened to people like Martina Navratilova in this exact debate on the larger stage, so it does actually happen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 13, 2021, 08:02:30 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 13, 2021, 06:59:48 PM
I think the reason people are particularly interested in the women's sports angle for this is for two reasons: 

Well it is pretty much the singular only instance where being a transwoman is even the least bit controversial from my perspective.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 13, 2021, 08:15:09 PM
Since Renee Richards was brought up as a kind of model for the issue of trans women in money sports, let's hear what she has to say on the issue:
Quote"Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I'd had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I've reconsidered my opinion." She adds, "There is one thing that a transsexual woman unfortunately cannot expect to be allowed to do, and that is to play professional sports in her chosen field. She can get married, live as woman, do all of those other things, and no one should ever be allowed to take them away from her. But this limitation—that's just life. I know because I lived it."
https://slate.com/culture/2012/10/jewish-jocks-and-renee-richards-the-life-of-the-transsexual-tennis-legend.html (https://slate.com/culture/2012/10/jewish-jocks-and-renee-richards-the-life-of-the-transsexual-tennis-legend.html)

Does that impact anyone's opinion?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2021, 01:01:20 AM
QuoteIsraeli Pacific Food Security Alliance

I was going to cry when I read this speech from the Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu, but at the end I said, "Glory to the God of Israel"
Let's read together:
Mr. Netanyahu said:
Only 70 years ago! The Jews were taken to slaughter like sheep.
🔵 60 years ago!
🔵 no country. No Army.
Seven Arab countries declared war on the small Jewish state, only a few hours after its creation!
🔵 we were 650,000 Jews against the many millions in the Arab world!
There was no strong IDF(Israel Defense Forces).
No powerful air force to save us but only brave Jewish people with nowhere else to go.
🔵Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Saudi Arabia all attacked at the same time.
🔵the country that the United Nations gave us was a 65 % desert.
🔵 35 years ago! We fought the three most Powerful armies in the middle east, and we swept them in six days.
We fought against various coalitions of Arab countries, which had modern armies and many Soviet weapons, and we have always beaten them!
Today we have:
🔵 a State (Country)
🔵 an Army,
🔵 a Powerful Air Force,
🔵 A State-of-the-Art Economy with exports worth billions of dollars.
🔵 Intel - Microsoft - ibm & many high-tech companies develop cutting edge products in Israel
🔵 our doctors receive awards for medical research.
🔵 we make the desert bloom, and sell oranges, flowers and vegetables all over the world.
🔵 Israel has sent its own satellites into space!
🔵 three satellites at the same time!
🔵 We are proud to be at the same rank as:
🔵 The United States, which has 250 million inhabitants,
🔵 Russia, which has 200 million inhabitants,
🔵 China, which has 1.3 billion inhabitants;
🔵 Europeans - France, Great Britain, Germany - with 350 million inhabitants.
🔵 the only countries in the world to send objects into space!
🔵 and say that only 60 years ago,
🔵 we were led, ashamed and hopeless, to slaughter!
🔵 we have experienced the smoking ruins of Europe,
🔵 we have won our wars here in Israel with less than nothing
🔵 we built our little "Empire" from nothing.
Who's Hamas to scare me?
🔴 to terrify me?
🔴 you make me laugh!
🔴 Passover was celebrated;
Let's not forget what Passover is:
🔴 we survived Pharaoh,
🔴 we survived the Greeks,
🔴 we survived the Romans,
🔴 we survived the inquisition in Spain,
🔴 we have the pogroms in Russia,
🔴 we survived Hitler,
🔴 we survived the Germans,
🔴 we survived the Holocaust,
🔴 we survived the armies of seven Arab countries,
🔴 we survived Saddam.
🔴 we will survive the enemies present
Think of any time in human history ⚠
Think about it, for us, the Jewish people,
🔷 the situation has never been better!
🔷 then let's face the world,
Let us remember:
🔶 all nations, empires or cultures
🔶  who once tried to destroy us,
🔶  no longer exist today - while we still live!
🔶  Egypt?
🔶  Babylon?
🔶  the Greeks?
🔶  Alexander of Macedonia?
🔶  The Romans? (does anyone still speak Latin these days? )
🔶 The Third Reich?
And look at us
🔵 The slaves of Egypt,
🔵 The People of Moses
🔵 The Nation of the Bible,
🔵 We are still here,
And Hebrew is still the official language of the State of Israel today:
🚩 from the time of the Bible and now!
🚩 Arabs don't know yet,
🚩 but they will learn that there is a God.
🚩 as long as we keep our identity, we are forever.
So forgive us for not worrying,
🔶 not to cry,
🔶 not to be afraid.
🔶 things are fine here.
🔶 they could certainly get better,
However:
🔴 Don't believe the media,
🔴 they don't tell you alot of good things about Israel
🔴 celebrations continue to take place in Israel,
🔴 people continue to live,
🔴 people keep coming out,
🔴 people continue to see friends.
Some claim our morale is low.
🔵 so what?
Only because we mourn our deaths while our enemies rejoice in the blood shed & war.
🔵 that is why we will win, in the end.
The God of Israel created the Heaven's and the Earth.
The Guardian of Israel never slumbers or sleep! The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Forward this speech to the whole community,
💙 and to people around the world.
💜 they are part of our strength
Share this Post with your family, friends and colleagues 💞💟💖🇮🇱🇮🇱💓💓💓🇮🇱🇮🇱💓💟💝
P.S... Support this new historical Alliance called the *#ISRAELI_PACIFIC_FOOD_SECURITY_ALLIANCE* between Israel and the Pacific Island Nations.God bless you! Like our Facebook Page Israeli Pacific Food Security Alliance - Support or Pacific Israel Rim - Support Page to learn more.  🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 14, 2021, 01:16:33 AM
WTF is that?!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2021, 01:23:03 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 14, 2021, 01:16:33 AM
WTF is that?!

I was wondering the same and therefore posted it before the luminaries of this forum.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 14, 2021, 01:51:52 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 13, 2021, 08:15:09 PM
Since Renee Richards was brought up as a kind of model for the issue of trans women in money sports, let's hear what she has to say on the issue:
Quote"Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I'd had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I've reconsidered my opinion." She adds, "There is one thing that a transsexual woman unfortunately cannot expect to be allowed to do, and that is to play professional sports in her chosen field. She can get married, live as woman, do all of those other things, and no one should ever be allowed to take them away from her. But this limitation—that's just life. I know because I lived it."
https://slate.com/culture/2012/10/jewish-jocks-and-renee-richards-the-life-of-the-transsexual-tennis-legend.html (https://slate.com/culture/2012/10/jewish-jocks-and-renee-richards-the-life-of-the-transsexual-tennis-legend.html)

Does that impact anyone's opinion?

My guess is no (for several reasons).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 14, 2021, 09:08:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 14, 2021, 01:23:03 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 14, 2021, 01:16:33 AM
WTF is that?!

I was wondering the same and therefore posted it before the luminaries of this forum.

To start, what is going on with the color scheme and the bullets??

QuoteLet us remember:
🔶 all nations, empires or cultures
🔶  who once tried to destroy us,
🔶  no longer exist today - while we still live!
🔶  Egypt?
🔶  Babylon?
🔶  the Greeks?
🔶  Alexander of Macedonia?
🔶  The Romans? (does anyone still speak Latin these days? )
🔶 The Third Reich?

OK.

I think we can all stipulate that Alexander of Macedon is no longer alive. I suppose one could see the hand of divine Providence in the fact that he failed to reach the age of 2376; on the other hand, what should we conclude from the premature deaths of Moses, King Solomon and Rabbi Akiba?  Also - Alexander does "live on" in the sense that Jews continue to give children that name in commemoration of Alex's sparing the Temple from harm.

We can also agree the Third Reich was defeated.  Yay!

Last I checked Egypt and Greece are still around; the Greeks are even still speaking Greek. There are also plenty of people speaking Latin languages; quite a few more than are speaking the modern day derivates of ancient Hebrew.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 14, 2021, 10:51:19 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 14, 2021, 09:08:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 14, 2021, 01:23:03 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 14, 2021, 01:16:33 AM
WTF is that?!

I was wondering the same and therefore posted it before the luminaries of this forum.

To start, what is going on with the color scheme and the bullets??

QuoteLet us remember:
🔶 all nations, empires or cultures
🔶  who once tried to destroy us,
🔶  no longer exist today - while we still live!
🔶  Egypt?
🔶  Babylon?
🔶  the Greeks?
🔶  Alexander of Macedonia?
🔶  The Romans? (does anyone still speak Latin these days? )
🔶 The Third Reich?

OK.

I think we can all stipulate that Alexander of Macedon is no longer alive. I suppose one could see the hand of divine Providence in the fact that he failed to reach the age of 2376; on the other hand, what should we conclude from the premature deaths of Moses, King Solomon and Rabbi Akiba?  Also - Alexander does "live on" in the sense that Jews continue to give children that name in commemoration of Alex's sparing the Temple from harm.

We can also agree the Third Reich was defeated.  Yay!

Last I checked Egypt and Greece are still around; the Greeks are even still speaking Greek. There are also plenty of people speaking Latin languages; quite a few more than are speaking the modern day derivates of ancient Hebrew.

And never a mention of celebrating the Persians.  Tsk Tsk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/185788526_10222705413401596_9022635009815975620_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hB7C18cKzJkAX8UHWAU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d5cd9fa5f642af3976b312101fa3d024&oe=60C45B6E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 14, 2021, 12:06:00 PM
And this is from a German?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2021, 12:08:33 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 14, 2021, 12:06:00 PM
And this is from a German?

Ex-German.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 14, 2021, 12:18:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 14, 2021, 12:08:33 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 14, 2021, 12:06:00 PM
And this is from a German?

Ex-German.

Jesus. I don't want to imagine what you have to do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 14, 2021, 12:50:20 PM
"Nazi's stood for National Democratic Socialist Party" is in the pole position for the most idiotic sentence of 2021.

Still - there are many months to go and there are still a lot of Republicans on twitter.  Expect vigorous competition. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on May 14, 2021, 12:54:06 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 14, 2021, 12:50:20 PM
"Nazi's stood for National Democratic Socialist Party" is in the pole position for the most idiotic sentence of 2021.

Still - there are many months to go and there are still a lot of Republicans on twitter.  Expect vigorous competition.

This race will go to the steady of stupid, not the quick of idiocy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 14, 2021, 01:01:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 14, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/185788526_10222705413401596_9022635009815975620_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hB7C18cKzJkAX8UHWAU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d5cd9fa5f642af3976b312101fa3d024&oe=60C45B6E)

Don't the Germans currently make you wear a mask? And aren't they currently governed by the Christian Democratic Union? Current events lesson of the day.

So basically 21st Century Germany and 1930s Germany are exactly the same? Merkel is Hitler!!!!111
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 14, 2021, 01:22:51 PM
I don't think the poster concerned himself very much with Germany. Or history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2021, 01:36:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 14, 2021, 01:01:26 PM
Don't the Germans currently make you wear a mask? And aren't they currently governed by the Christian Democratic Union? Current events lesson of the day.

So basically 21st Century Germany and 1930s Germany are exactly the same? Merkel is Hitler!!!!111

At demonstrations against Covid measures, people were claiming they were living in a dictatorship and drawing parallels to the NS regime. With some wearing yellow Stars of David labeled "not vaccinated" and similar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 14, 2021, 01:40:32 PM
Damn I guess doing basic public health policy is something that only Nazi Germany ever did before 2020.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
I forgot to add my sister's comment:

QuoteYou think I'm crazy? they said it wasn't happening in Germany too, they turned a blind eye to it, they made them look less human, they turned a portion of the population against them, that's how it started, its for their own good they said! that's how it started! are you going to keep quiet?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 14, 2021, 03:12:00 PM
Syt, don't take this the wrong way, but I think some of the political views that your sisters share are a bit on the offensive side.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 14, 2021, 03:12:34 PM
Yeah I am probably going to keep quiet about that since I have no idea what you are talking about. The Nazis convinced everybody that everybody should wear yellow stars of David to protect against the spread of infectious disease?

Anyway there are no real penalties for not wearing a mask so there is that also.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 14, 2021, 03:13:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 14, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
I forgot to add my sister's comment:

QuoteYou think I'm crazy? they said it wasn't happening in Germany too, they turned a blind eye to it, they made them look less human, they turned a portion of the population against them, that's how it started, its for their own good they said! that's how it started! are you going to keep quiet?

Victimhood is the strongest force in the galaxy after compound interest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2021, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 14, 2021, 03:12:00 PM
Syt, don't take this the wrong way, but I think some of the political views that your sisters share are a bit on the offensive side.
:o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 14, 2021, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 14, 2021, 01:16:33 AM
WTF is that?!


My guess is that it is quite old, or at least some parts of it are.  Many Orthodox Jews are resistant to change but even they will admit that the Six Day War was more than 35 years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 15, 2021, 01:35:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 14, 2021, 01:40:32 PM
Damn I guess doing basic public health policy is something that only Nazi Germany ever did before 2020.
Unlike their usual totalitarian approach, the Nazis were actually surprisingly soft on mandatory vaccinations (unlike say Bismarck who coerced people using force). They had a surprisingly strong adherence to "natural medicine" and considered vaccinations Jewish. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 15, 2021, 08:44:31 PM
Ah man really? I guess any bad idea will be found to be embraced by the Nazis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 16, 2021, 08:42:30 AM
The nazis being anti vax... Hadn't heard that though it does fit in with their general anti science outlook. I need to know more about this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 16, 2021, 12:40:39 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/178505690_10224112507707729_1869716189620387540_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Ej5gAqQJ-LMAX9oiEZA&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8d26cd9f087db8d1309173d4b6b18e37&oe=60C795BE)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/183699703_10225210146218034_6830224229507748154_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=1egwSQKMGEIAX99Hu1Q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1241594e2571fe0399ab56e973c814ee&oe=60C55134)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 17, 2021, 12:43:19 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 16, 2021, 08:42:30 AM
The nazis being anti vax... Hadn't heard that though it does fit in with their general anti science outlook. I need to know more about this.

They were not anti-vax per se, but in this particular area of policy they did not use force and tried to convince people to participate in the vaccinations against small pox and diphtheria. The Wehrmacht was apparently the main proponent of mandatory vaccination. But in the implementation of Bismarck's mandatory smallpox vaccination law of 1874, the Nazis allowed more parental discretion than before. That law was more stringently enforced by both the Reich before and the GDR afterwards, not so much the FRG. On diphtheria, they did not make vaccinations mandatory, but rather made comprehensive propaganda campaign and easy accessibility the key and achieved a very high vaccination rate.

Here is an article:

QuoteErstaunlicherweise galt das selbst im "Dritten Reich". So berüchtigt die Nazi-Gesundheitspolitik ab 1933 für unmenschliche Zwangsmaßnahmen und abscheuliche Medizinverbrechen ist - beim Impfen ging sie andere Wege. Wenige Monate nach dem Machtantritt versprach Reichsinnenminister Wilhelm Frick die Einführung einer "Gewissensklausel", um dem "Volksempfinden" Rechnung zu tragen. Im NS-Staat sollten Eltern ihre Kinder von der Pockenimpfung zurückstellen können.

Sein Versprechen konnte Frick zwar nicht halten; insbesondere die Wehrmacht ging wegen der Lockerungen auf die Barrikaden und warnte vor einem Verlust der "Wehrfähigkeit". Allerdings war von einer Impfpflicht aufgrund großzügiger Ausnahmeregelungen ab Mitte der Dreißigerjahre nur noch wenig zu spüren.

Noch klarer war der Kurswechsel bei der Impfung gegen Diphtherie. Ende der Dreißigerjahre nahmen deutsche Gesundheitsämter den Kampf gegen die Infektionskrankheit auf, die jedes Jahr Tausende Kinder hinwegraffte. Statt auf Gesetze und Polizisten setzten sie indes auf Aufklärung und Werbung: Die Deutschen vom Nutzen der Diphtherie-Impfung überzeugen sollten bunte Plakate und Broschüren, Hörspiele im Radio, Filme im Kinovorprogramm und sogar Theaterstücke. Hinzu kamen niedrigschwellige Angebote mobiler "Impftrupps", die vor Ort für Immunität sorgten. Überzeugungsarbeit sollte also die "Volksgenossen" zum Impfarzt bringen, nicht Druck oder körperlicher Zwang.

"Weshalb Zwang, wenn es freiwillig geht"
Der Erfolg war beachtlich. Während die Impfquote gegen Pocken lediglich zwischen 68 und 82 Prozent lag, erreichten freiwillige Diphtherieschutzimpfungen Quoten zwischen 92 und 99 Prozent. Das Reichsinnenministerium zog daraus schon 1938 eine einfache Lehre: "Weshalb also Zwang anwenden, wenn es freiwillig geht."

Die Entdeckung der Freiwilligkeit hing mit der Ökonomisierung des Gesundheitswesens untrennbar zusammen. Für viele Pharmaunternehmen war die Diphtherieschutzimpfung ein Bestseller. Sie schlugen schon aus Eigeninteresse einen neuen Ton an. Vermarktung statt Zwang lautete ihre Devise, die hohe Gewinne versprach. Pharmafirmen wie die Marburger Behringwerke lieferten den Gesundheitsämtern neben Impfstoffen auch reichhaltiges Werbematerial, das der Gesundheitspolitik ein neues Antlitz verlieh.

Interesting enough the "Marburger Behringwerke" mentioned in the article is now the BioNTech mRNA factory.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 17, 2021, 03:23:08 PM
QuoteCongratulations  America, you have elected ( stole an election) a complete idiot in as President just because you  didn't like the way Trump talked and he hurt your sensitive little feelings. Biden has basically destroyed this Country in 90 days. China, Russia, North Korea and Iraq know our leadership is extremely WEAK and they are capitalizing on it. Just 90 days in we have a border crisis like we've never seen, a MAJOR oil pipeline has fell victim of a cyber attack from Russia.  Iraq is trying to disrupt oil shipments causing American war ships to fire warning shots at them and China says we have a chip shortage that's completely crippled the American automotive industry. Y'all are so  focused on the hog wash the media has fed y'all you haven't even noticed these major issues. Y'all are to focused on this cancel culture, gender equity, systematic racism and Police "brutality" junk to even see the MAJOR issues at hand. Just think back we had 4 years with no new wars, lowest black unemployment numbers ever seen, energy independence, nothing heard out of Rocket Man, three separate peace deals signed in the Middle East under Trump but he hurt your feelings. I could care less about your feelings, I want my Country protected and our economy strong !!!
Copied from a friend! I'm sure this will ignite some fires but I really don't care! It's 💯 % true!

:wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 17, 2021, 03:27:59 PM
He says he doesn't care, but I think he might.  :console:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 17, 2021, 03:29:46 PM
I like how Syt's family hates Biden both for being a warmonger and for not being a warmonger enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 17, 2021, 03:35:11 PM
QuoteI could care less about your feelings

Well that's nice at least. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 17, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Can someone remind me what the three separate Middle East peace deals were?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 17, 2021, 03:45:04 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 17, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Can someone remind me what the three separate Middle East peace deals were?

Not sure about the other two but one must be the time we told the Kurds to fuck off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 17, 2021, 03:48:02 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 17, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Can someone remind me what the three separate Middle East peace deals were?

Peace with Morocco, peace with UAE, peace with Bahrain.

All were clearly imminent threats to Israel's security.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: chipwich on May 17, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
I take those seriously. Israel can't enter a state of peace if it's at war or ex nihlo with 50 countries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 17, 2021, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: chipwich on May 17, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
I take those seriously. Israel can't enter a state of peace if it's at war or ex nihlo with 50 countries.

I mean they're not nothing, to be sure.

But Trump did have to bribe each country pretty heavily (Trump made a huge concession in recognizing Morocco's ownership of Western Sahara), and like I said they're all pretty far away from Israel.

But it's not nothing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 17, 2021, 04:20:03 PM
Quote from: chipwich on May 17, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
I take those seriously. Israel can't enter a state of peace if it's at war or ex nihlo with 50 countries.

I mean...I guess. The reason Israel is not in a state of peace is not because 50 countries haven't recognized it yet. If all those issues were resolved and the only thing standing between us and peace was those 50 countries recognizing it then I would also take it seriously. As it is that is like worrying about what the borders of Czechoslovakia is going to be in 1915...I mean it not unimportant at some point but we have to sort of take care of the more important details of ending WWI first.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 17, 2021, 04:21:55 PM
The real world is really missing a white peace mechanic.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 17, 2021, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 17, 2021, 04:20:03 PM
Quote from: chipwich on May 17, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
I take those seriously. Israel can't enter a state of peace if it's at war or ex nihlo with 50 countries.

I mean...I guess. The reason Israel is not in a state of peace is not because 50 countries haven't recognized it yet. If all those issues were resolved and the only thing standing between us and peace was those 50 countries recognizing it then I would also take it seriously. As it is that is like worrying about what the borders of Czechoslovakia is going to be in 1915...I mean it not unimportant at some point but we have to sort of take care of the more important details of ending WWI first.

That's not a very Valmy analogy. :(

I would have expected something about revolutionary France or Vince Young.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 17, 2021, 05:30:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/SqNL839.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 17, 2021, 05:37:16 PM
Quote from: chipwich on May 17, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
I take those seriously. Israel can't enter a state of peace if it's at war or ex nihlo with 50 countries.

They weren't at war with Israel, it just normalized relations.  The Israelis and UAE have been coordinating military stuff for years now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 17, 2021, 05:50:11 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 17, 2021, 04:21:55 PM
The real world is really missing a white peace mechanic.  :(
Israel always declare war on Gaza before the timer comes to zero.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 17, 2021, 08:11:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 17, 2021, 03:27:59 PM
He says he doesn't care, but I think he might.  :console:
He could care less, which leaves a lot of room for change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 17, 2021, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 17, 2021, 05:30:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/SqNL839.jpg)

Something tells me Syt's sisters didn't post this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 17, 2021, 11:31:38 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/politicallyincorrecthumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/message-after-biden-last-month-glad-did-nothing-for-47-years.jpg?resize=520%2C274&ssl=1&fbclid=IwAR10_4_27bm0xxRBLui7Ky3EhExOIxtavb8olJ5_R6tRQHxsWTBZC4nDrZk)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/186316600_10220320761311817_7840394472958595960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=1UzeyIMcwGYAX_uYwpb&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e8679ca6016e324f1156846f75f484cc&oe=60C809BE)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fbq4ywY3/cg.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 18, 2021, 11:34:20 AM
So my sister shared an article from "townhall.com" titled "Democrats Hit With Massive Ad Campaign Over Teachers Unions Colluding with the CDC".

The "collusion" is, per linked NY Post a series of emails going back and forth between union and CDC, leading to this terrible influence of the union:

https://nypost.com/2021/05/01/teachers-union-collaborated-with-cdc-on-school-reopening-emails/

Quote[...]

The lobbying paid off. In at least two instances, language "suggestions" offered by the union were adopted nearly verbatim into the final text of the CDC document.

With the CDC preparing to write that schools could provide in-person instruction regardless of community spread of the virus, Trautner argued for the inclusion of a line reading "In the event of high community-transmission results from a new variant of SARS-CoV-2, a new update of these guidelines may be necessary." That language appeared on page 22 of the final CDC guidance.

The AFT also demanded special remote work concessions for teachers "who have documented high-risk conditions or who are at increased risk for ... COVID-19," and that similar arrangements should extend to "staff who have a household member" with similar risks. A lengthy provision for that made it into the text of the final guidance.

[...]

I wonder if she would be similarly outraged at big business and industry lobbyists influencing, I don't know, legislators in a similar fashion. Not that that ever happens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 18, 2021, 11:39:28 AM
Unlimited power!!!1111
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 18, 2021, 04:22:20 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/185393783_3055057274712167_1760164062270454939_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=TL1H0aQISPkAX_ZPdGZ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d5baa598ca61bfbd8464650c8d1c687b&oe=60CA01A1)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/187119525_4063260593740720_5862195814059126616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TZJE-LwWs8cAX8WeBv_&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a34cd5d7fb0b5ffe2d5a91ae59361b3b&oe=60CAF295)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 18, 2021, 04:30:31 PM
No Jesse, I'm not following.  I need you to break that down for me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 18, 2021, 04:43:23 PM
If only we had known earlier that the secret to peace in the Middle East was tweeting f-bombs in all caps. Think how many lives could have saved.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 18, 2021, 06:23:34 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 18, 2021, 04:43:23 PM
If only we had known earlier that the secret to peace in the Middle East was tweeting f-bombs in all caps. Think how many lives could have saved.
In a way, 9-11 might never have happened had Trump been president then.  Ben Laden would have realized the US was already on a path to self destruction and find worthier targets then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 18, 2021, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2021, 06:23:34 PM
In a way, 9-11 might never have happened had Trump been president then.  Ben Laden would have realized the US was already on a path to self destruction and find worthier targets then.

In a sense Trump's presidency is a consequence of the 9-11 attack. It certainly altered the trajectory of the GOP and the US as a whole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 18, 2021, 06:52:53 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 18, 2021, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2021, 06:23:34 PM
In a way, 9-11 might never have happened had Trump been president then.  Ben Laden would have realized the US was already on a path to self destruction and find worthier targets then.

In a sense Trump's presidency is a consequence of the 9-11 attack. It certainly altered the trajectory of the GOP and the US as a whole.
I was going to wonder about that as well.  GOP's slide away from democracy began with their reaction to Clinton's victory, but I can't help but think that 9/11 was a lasting boost for them, directly and indirectly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 18, 2021, 07:40:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 18, 2021, 06:52:53 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 18, 2021, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2021, 06:23:34 PM
In a way, 9-11 might never have happened had Trump been president then.  Ben Laden would have realized the US was already on a path to self destruction and find worthier targets then.

In a sense Trump's presidency is a consequence of the 9-11 attack. It certainly altered the trajectory of the GOP and the US as a whole.
I was going to wonder about that as well.  GOP's slide away from democracy began with their reaction to Clinton's victory, but I can't help but think that 9/11 was a lasting boost for them, directly and indirectly.

Post-911 was when they went not just anti-democratic, but imperial presidency to boot.  The Shrub claimed the power to arrest and detain anyone, anywhere, at his discretion, and the GOP congress didn't offer a word of protest. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 19, 2021, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 18, 2021, 07:40:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 18, 2021, 06:52:53 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 18, 2021, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2021, 06:23:34 PM
In a way, 9-11 might never have happened had Trump been president then.  Ben Laden would have realized the US was already on a path to self destruction and find worthier targets then.

In a sense Trump's presidency is a consequence of the 9-11 attack. It certainly altered the trajectory of the GOP and the US as a whole.
I was going to wonder about that as well.  GOP's slide away from democracy began with their reaction to Clinton's victory, but I can't help but think that 9/11 was a lasting boost for them, directly and indirectly.

Post-911 was when they went not just anti-democratic, but imperial presidency to boot.  The Shrub claimed the power to arrest and detain anyone, anywhere, at his discretion, and the GOP congress didn't offer a word of protest. 
Yeah. The Patriot Act began this mess.  I remember some shitbag quoting Stalin about making political enemies go away, all the while screaming about what an American patriot he was.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 20, 2021, 11:31:33 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/186972991_10222748717924182_1710471739768593870_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xjvz49QslV8AX-PuVa2&_nc_oc=AQlzAnCfcYlCyYyRzh2WbIUboqwuOPKRLChZ3Xn-ps9uDMjZMTl0cuHIm3OvkOM6uWU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=da41067ee9b622dc6a490edc77031124&oe=60CD1127)

:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 20, 2021, 12:31:16 PM
Bullet boats will be in high demand when the flood comes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 20, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 18, 2021, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2021, 06:23:34 PM
In a way, 9-11 might never have happened had Trump been president then.  Ben Laden would have realized the US was already on a path to self destruction and find worthier targets then.

In a sense Trump's presidency is a consequence of the 9-11 attack. It certainly altered the trajectory of the GOP and the US as a whole.


I disagree.  In fact, 9/11 may have delayed this.  We've been moving towards this since the Berlin wall fell*.  After 9/11 there was quite a bit more bipartisanship.  Most of the Right-wing militias were effectively dead when it happened and they didn't really grow much during the Bush years.  When Obama got elected the militias began to reform.  I would have thought that the Militas would decline during another Republican Presidency, but instead more and more people were radicalized.

*possibly longer.  I was a kid in the 1980's so I don't know much about the political climate then.  You did get the rise of the Posse Comitatus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 20, 2021, 12:42:56 PM
I don't know about that Raz.  Bush had the kindler gentler conservative agenda.  Then 9/11 changed all of that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 20, 2021, 12:48:26 PM
I'm starting to wonder whether the 20th century ideas of free speech are just not compatible with the 21st century brainwashing technology.  The 20th century ideas of what is public information and what is private information is not compatible with 21st century surveillance state technology, it may well be that the idea that false information will lose out in a marketplace of ideas is a dangerously naïve article of faith in the age of microtargeted propaganda.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 20, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 20, 2021, 11:31:33 AM
:unsure:

It's a reference to a story from the Bible.  After God sent the Democrats to destroy mankind, He relented and told Noah to a build Gun Safe, of many cubits, and take in two of every caliber and every make and model.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on May 20, 2021, 12:50:05 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 20, 2021, 12:48:26 PM
I'm starting to wonder whether the 20th century ideas of free speech are just not compatible with the 21st century brainwashing technology.  The 20th century ideas of what is public information and what is private information is not compatible with 21st century surveillance state technology, it may well be that the idea that false information will lose out in a marketplace of ideas is a dangerously naïve article of faith in the age of microtargeted propaganda.

Brought to you by FSB gang.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 20, 2021, 12:50:48 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 20, 2021, 12:50:05 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 20, 2021, 12:48:26 PM
I'm starting to wonder whether the 20th century ideas of free speech are just not compatible with the 21st century brainwashing technology.  The 20th century ideas of what is public information and what is private information is not compatible with 21st century surveillance state technology, it may well be that the idea that false information will lose out in a marketplace of ideas is a dangerously naïve article of faith in the age of microtargeted propaganda.

Brought to you by FSB gang.
You have to admit, they're pretty good at it, aren't they?  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 25, 2021, 12:34:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/132499012_3639914556069569_4757769937144569146_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Jvxue6FZeoUAX8Aloi2&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7340f94b317f60cc8fb50160ff886f7e&oe=60D34B2B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 25, 2021, 08:08:45 AM
I would rather keep the President's family as far away from government as possible after all the nepotism of the last administration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 25, 2021, 09:07:57 AM
The whole Hunter Biden thing is weird.  Trump's daughter received half a billion dollars in patents from the Chinese.  Not to mention Donald's profits when dealing with China.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 25, 2021, 09:14:43 AM
It's a common thing with the far right. They don't get that "the other side" (there is only one) fundamentally see and do things differently to them.
They behave in exactly the same way, they're just less good at it and yet at the same time better at hiding it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 25, 2021, 09:25:40 AM
Having to testify is one of the downsides of accepting nepotistic high-level appointments to the election campaign.  I do remember that his lawyer, defending against the bipartisan criminal referral for perjury filed by the Senate Intelligence Committee, claimed that Junior was too stupid to have a criminal mind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 25, 2021, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2021, 09:25:40 AM
Having to testify is one of the downsides of accepting nepotistic high-level appointments to the election campaign.  I do remember that his lawyer, defending against the bipartisan criminal referral for perjury filed by the Senate Intelligence Committee, claimed that Junior was too stupid to have a criminal mind.

That was also a finding of the Mueller Report.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 25, 2021, 11:17:44 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 25, 2021, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2021, 09:25:40 AM
Having to testify is one of the downsides of accepting nepotistic high-level appointments to the election campaign.  I do remember that his lawyer, defending against the bipartisan criminal referral for perjury filed by the Senate Intelligence Committee, claimed that Junior was too stupid to have a criminal mind.

That was also a finding of the Mueller Report.

I misremembered it, then.  Whoever said it, they were right.  Junior is a moron, even compared to his dad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 25, 2021, 11:59:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/190432234_10226434666163237_2040476210491460605_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rUPgRK1pFsQAX9d3Skq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2d9e05524548e5dc986e9facc1907e93&oe=60D2EA97)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 25, 2021, 12:03:30 PM
I mean the equivalent would be if Paul Revere used the colonial postal service instead of spreading it word of mouth. Probably would have been censored a bit harder in 1775.

Edit: Though why was Paul Revere riding around in 1776? Everybody knew the British were coming by that point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 25, 2021, 12:10:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hIDcHMA.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 25, 2021, 12:13:11 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 25, 2021, 02:24:39 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/191941253_5510805015657321_8182153426214370515_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=GrzFpUHiD2IAX9uT07k&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=90be81e988b21ce1b57354cd878c4c63&oe=60D489DC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 25, 2021, 02:41:39 PM
Nobody is saying Covid-vaccines are "perfectly safe" for pregnant women.

Pregnant women are told the state of the science, may get vaccines while pregnant if they wish, and the results are being tracked (and so far the results for mRNA vaccines have been terrific).

And there are boatloads of studies showing the risk of alcohol to unborn fetuses.  What kind of crazy false equivalency is this?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 25, 2021, 03:12:13 PM
False equivalence an misrepresentations are how memes are used to brainwash and manipulate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 25, 2021, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 25, 2021, 12:10:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hIDcHMA.jpg)


Wait, what?  I don't know if this is a religious meme or an atheist meme.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 25, 2021, 06:39:33 PM
Um....dude it is an Incredibles meme.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2021, 06:58:31 PM
It's an antireligious meme. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 25, 2021, 07:00:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2021, 06:58:31 PM
It's an antireligious meme. 

I guess. Not every religious person wears shitty T-shirts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2021, 07:04:15 PM
No guessing needed.

"If you subtract the truth from life you're left with God."  Ergo God is a lie, he is all falsehood.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 25, 2021, 07:30:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2021, 07:04:15 PM
No guessing needed.

"If you subtract the truth from life you're left with God."  Ergo God is a lie, he is all falsehood.

It's a gnostic meme. God is not just a myth, he's literally the opposite of all truth! 😄
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 25, 2021, 08:03:50 PM
I should make memes.  I'm just as disingenuous as the next guy.  I think I would make a good propagandist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 25, 2021, 08:42:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2021, 07:04:15 PM
No guessing needed.

"If you subtract the truth from life you're left with God."  Ergo God is a lie, he is all falsehood.

Um they are saying that is what the shirt says, that is how lame the shirt is. It is a joke. Jeez.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 25, 2021, 10:38:54 PM
Not how I parsed it. I read it as only the first line (God + truth = life) and the rest is the memer making fun of it.

Granted, the format leaves it a bit ambiguous, but I'd assume that I the entire text after the initial colon was supposed to be on the t-shirt, then it would say "you" instead of "they".

Also, it seems more in line with usual meme formats of taking one line by someone else (real or imagined) and then mocking it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2021, 10:43:49 PM
Right.  That way makes sense.  The other way makes no sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 25, 2021, 11:59:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 25, 2021, 10:38:54 PM
Not how I parsed it. I read it as only the first line (God + truth = life) and the rest is the memer making fun of it.

Granted, the format leaves it a bit ambiguous, but I'd assume that I the entire text after the initial colon was supposed to be on the t-shirt, then it would say "you" instead of "they".

Also, it seems more in line with usual meme formats of taking one line by someone else (real or imagined) and then mocking it.

Yeah, that was my take too. So while the meme originator is probably not hardcore religious, the mockery is about not thinking through your facile equation than explicitly saying God is not real. It's "you don't realize you're saying God is a lie, you friggin' doofus" not "God is a lie".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 26, 2021, 08:36:53 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 25, 2021, 11:59:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 25, 2021, 10:38:54 PM
Not how I parsed it. I read it as only the first line (God + truth = life) and the rest is the memer making fun of it.

Granted, the format leaves it a bit ambiguous, but I'd assume that I the entire text after the initial colon was supposed to be on the t-shirt, then it would say "you" instead of "they".

Also, it seems more in line with usual meme formats of taking one line by someone else (real or imagined) and then mocking it.

Yeah, that was my take too. So while the meme originator is probably not hardcore religious, the mockery is about not thinking through your facile equation than explicitly saying God is not real. It's "you don't realize you're saying God is a lie, you friggin' doofus" not "God is a lie".

The maker of the tee shirt was either: (a) ignorantly making a statement that they did not realize said the opposite of what they thought; or (b) were cleverly spreading the gnostic message (the god of this world is a lie).  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 27, 2021, 08:12:39 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 26, 2021, 08:36:53 AM
The maker of the tee shirt was either: (a) ignorantly making a statement that they did not realize said the opposite of what they thought; or (b) were cleverly spreading the gnostic message (the god of this world is a lie).  ;)

Never assign to cleverness that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 27, 2021, 10:24:12 AM
That would make languish significantly less interesting :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 27, 2021, 10:51:05 AM
A person wearing a religious slogan on a tee shirt being stupid? That's just unpossible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on May 30, 2021, 06:41:08 AM
This was posted by a fellow official who was an ex-cop. When I pointed out that the actual data *directly* contradicts every single point other then the high taxes, I was told I was demented, and he was pleased his meme worked to "trigger a lib".


(https://scontent-qro1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/68432090_10217366818714977_4776364479124340736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=buqC0AR37SMAX_uO4qp&_nc_ht=scontent-qro1-1.xx&oh=26acfaff6293138f84946dad6cc645f6&oe=60D76395)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 30, 2021, 07:15:17 AM
He missed georgia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 30, 2021, 08:14:06 AM
And Colorado, New Mexico, Virginia, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 30, 2021, 08:42:14 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 30, 2021, 06:41:08 AM
This was posted by a fellow official who was an ex-cop. When I pointed out that the actual data *directly* contradicts every single point other then the high taxes, I was told I was demented, and he was pleased his meme worked to "trigger a lib".
This level of mean spirited spite is something that I see all the time in people I know of that persuasion, and it's very creepy.  It's even more creepier when they start talking about guns.  It seems like they've already dehumanized their opponents, in the right circumstances they'll start a massacre with no hesitation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 01, 2021, 09:44:35 AM
In response to some twitter trolling of Republicans (photo sent to Republicans of Lee Harvey Oswald as poster's grandfather and asking them to reply to honor their grandfather), Candace Owens posted the following:

Quote
Candace Owens @RealCandaceO
Replying to @kenklippenstein
It is not "political correctness" to have a soul and a modicum of decency.

Reminder: These men DIED— the majority of them on foreign soil—so that you could be free. You do not photoshop murderers into their uniforms so that you can have a laugh.

I think that first line is very interesting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 09:53:13 AM
She is not aware Lee Harvey Oswald was a US Marine?

Anyway interesting that being respectful is not "political correctness". Not offending people by being respectful is kind of one of its key components.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2021, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2021, 09:53:13 AM
She is not aware [FILL IN BLANK HERE]?

Yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2021, 01:41:30 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/192928537_10225179677507415_7702267510225368718_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lJtAorWJCXMAX9nV4IE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7e56a42a8d4b2f9a585e6433520c0d63&oe=60DB76E8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 02, 2021, 02:35:58 PM
Sigh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 02, 2021, 02:39:17 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 02, 2021, 01:41:30 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/192928537_10225179677507415_7702267510225368718_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lJtAorWJCXMAX9nV4IE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7e56a42a8d4b2f9a585e6433520c0d63&oe=60DB76E8)

The fifth amendment to the Constitution guarantees the right to due process before the government deprives you of your life. Even for people with bad parents.

Also I did not realize the only people concerned with this issue were people who had children who had been shot by the police.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 02, 2021, 02:40:06 PM
I actually read that at first as 'police don't need more training, the parents of police should have taught them how to behave long before they became police officers'.

:hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 02, 2021, 03:26:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 02, 2021, 01:41:30 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/192928537_10225179677507415_7702267510225368718_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lJtAorWJCXMAX9nV4IE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7e56a42a8d4b2f9a585e6433520c0d63&oe=60DB76E8)




That's right, Donnie.  The reason you keep having problems with law enforcement is not because of "dirty cops".  Your Klansmen of a father didn't raise you right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 08, 2021, 01:28:36 AM
Do you sometimes feel really embarrassed about what your family says or posts?

(https://i.postimg.cc/FHSJf4SY/emb.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 08, 2021, 05:59:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 08, 2021, 01:28:36 AM
Do you sometimes feel really embarrassed about what your family says or posts?
No, I feel disgusted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on June 08, 2021, 06:04:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 08, 2021, 01:28:36 AM
Do you sometimes feel really embarrassed about what your family says or posts?

Yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 09, 2021, 10:25:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/95262657_10222197442636194_1904250050775613440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=i-c-dvR5DMEAX9fmk_b&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dac71d28165232b643fca7bc1fc3e221&oe=60E558A8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2021, 10:27:37 AM
I thought if we got shot by the state it was our fault by not being obedient enough to police? So am I supposed to be obedient or not?

Also I am amazed Germany did as well as it did in World War II with only 6 million people...or wait are they claiming the 6 million Jews were just following along and being obedient to the Germans? Like it is their fault they got genocided for not fighting back enough?

So...wait...are we the Germans or the Jews in this meme? And who are we being obedient to? I am so confused.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 09, 2021, 10:36:11 AM
Who ever wrote that really needs to go back to that school.  And while there you can ask a better question: How did Hitler get 80 million people to be ambivalent about the holocaust.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2021, 10:36:47 AM
The analogy is pretty clear to me:  Hitler got the Jews to obey because he lied and told them that they were just being resettled in Poland.  Trump gets his followers to obey by lying and telling them the election was stolen.

I think that the point is that we are supposed to recognize that Trump's victims deserve pity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 11, 2021, 04:47:25 AM
A known brexity, trumpy nutter sharing this:

(https://i.ibb.co/Sdpw34W/prosperity.jpg)

With their commentary that of course the conservatives are better than labour.

I decided to google up the quote to see if it was real and I find the full quote:

QuoteTo all questions and complaints his Majesty's Ministers have a single answer, 'Send us back to office for seven more years,' they cry, 'and we will shut out the foreign devils and the goods the foreign devils make.' What a programme for the 20th century! What an appeal to a civilized nation! What a new year's greeting to mankind! (Loud cheers.) I am proud of the part I took in opposing the Government, that a country which tries to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and endeavouring to lift himself up by the handle. (Loud laughter.)—Churchill, Town Hall, Malmesbury, 18 December 1904, Complete Speeches I: 398.*

....So basically.... it comes from when Churchill was a Liberal MP and he is attacking the Conservatives with policies not a million miles away from the direction that gains the right the support of idiots in current times....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on June 11, 2021, 05:29:58 AM
There are two reasons why Churchill has great many quotable quotes:
1. He was a great writer
2. He was a politician and not afraid to change his views as his ambition required
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 11, 2021, 08:08:35 AM
Good thing our countries are already prosperous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 12, 2021, 04:52:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/53278901_378285769428447_3023514194491211776_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lFCvYiIvcssAX9YZAuT&_nc_oc=AQl94ogFj4DNgvCQ9CSi3-9PRtln1G4DwOIMGYOzYtLwoaDqaXMr1DIloJ46vz6BeJM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f919f880cf085c0d14ca82ade4cb77d1&oe=60CA75E7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 12, 2021, 07:44:27 PM
The best part about that is the idea that the current crop of "Republicans" harkening back to the American Revolution. The same people who are today motivated by hating immigrants would have been fucking Tories, every single one of them.

And in the US Civil War? They would have been either the slavers, or the ones perfectly happy letting slavery exist because "that's the way it has always been! Make America Great Again!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 12, 2021, 08:32:45 PM
The holocaust one is spot on. All the Party had to do was say that the election was stolen and their membership started repeating it verbatim.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 13, 2021, 01:58:39 PM
My sisters believe the polls are fake.

(https://i.postimg.cc/7YFM7MWn/rigged.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 13, 2021, 01:59:47 PM
My sister believes what Tucker Carlson says.

(https://i.postimg.cc/52WLj9XP/tc.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 13, 2021, 03:01:30 PM
I am not American and have never watched Fox News and still know he is full of shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 13, 2021, 03:49:57 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 13, 2021, 03:01:30 PM
I am not American and have never watched Fox News and still know he is full of shit.

Again, his successful legal defense against one lawsuit was that only a moron would ever believe that anything he said was true. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 14, 2021, 03:43:38 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/196379642_3828688703926037_3496438117554385043_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SlFYsZ3rkfAAX-sLCeT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3eaa42d425785f1def9664444c1c8ef1&oe=60CC6A86)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2021, 03:58:46 PM
That is some whiny shit right there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2021, 04:00:41 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 12, 2021, 04:52:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/53278901_378285769428447_3023514194491211776_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lFCvYiIvcssAX9YZAuT&_nc_oc=AQl94ogFj4DNgvCQ9CSi3-9PRtln1G4DwOIMGYOzYtLwoaDqaXMr1DIloJ46vz6BeJM&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f919f880cf085c0d14ca82ade4cb77d1&oe=60CA75E7)

I mean that is not how it works. She is a member of Congress. She works for the people in her district. That is how Congress works.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 14, 2021, 05:03:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 14, 2021, 03:58:46 PM
That is some whiny shit right there.

Somebody didn't get in to Morehouse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 14, 2021, 07:11:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 14, 2021, 03:58:46 PM
That is some whiny shit right there.

Particularly because he can go to any of those "black-only" places.  And there are two months named after white guys, and no black holidays.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 15, 2021, 02:24:16 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/hvyt6n1d/cejk.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 15, 2021, 11:55:58 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/103124453_2968493416602121_7662471783748123077_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=XrETplRn-YwAX9NcRMy&_nc_oc=AQknSIAz7f14CZ3Ls3yQsX_yteqhHfrBAx1NdwOqgyDgf9ebXHDJTHARiVNj5yulOBQ&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6530e109c95a7a112dd2e32420bd83eb&oe=60CE9E05)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 16, 2021, 11:04:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/104163744_1379006458960830_6496641950938086681_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ZdIbbWsCWDUAX8HTXCN&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f0fb54191525c114a3f93d30fbabe9bd&oe=60CFB862)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 16, 2021, 11:06:28 AM
Nevermind the stupidity, where do culture warriors find the energy? Skipping naptime once in a while drains my batteries ffs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2021, 11:06:38 AM
The police can only suspect you are doing something illegal. The courts determine if you are doing anything illegal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 16, 2021, 11:11:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2021, 11:06:38 AM
The police can only suspect you are doing something illegal. The courts determine if you are doing anything illegal.

They wouldn't shoot you if you didn't disobey or do something illegal.  :rolleyes:
(My family actually believes that)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2021, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2021, 11:11:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2021, 11:06:38 AM
The police can only suspect you are doing something illegal. The courts determine if you are doing anything illegal.

They wouldn't shoot you if you didn't disobey or do something illegal.  :rolleyes:
(My family actually believes that)

Yet your family also posts memes saying obeying the government means the holocaust is happening. So are we supposed to disobey or not?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 16, 2021, 11:40:18 AM
You're supposed to listen to the right government. Which is any office occupied by Republicans. And any office held by Democrats is actively working against the people of the United States.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2021, 11:42:51 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2021, 11:40:18 AM
You're supposed to listen to the right government. Which is any office occupied by Republicans. And any office held by Democrats is actively working against the people of the United States.

Well the police have to enforce those laws passed by Democrats to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 16, 2021, 12:05:20 PM
It's never about consistency, Valmy. It's about sense of belonging.

Which is why these memes are actively dangerous. A minority in the country has convinced itself that it represents the true country, and are, in fact, the majority. The real country is thus being stolen by a small cadre of dangerous traitors.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on June 16, 2021, 12:14:32 PM
Yes. And they have tangible effects as well. All the right-wing rage about running protesters over for blocking roads and such is paying ghoulish dividends, not only in Charlestown and elsewhere, but in an ongoing pattern it seems:

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/14/1006147824/1-woman-is-dead-others-injured-in-minneapolis-after-a-driver-plows-into-protesto
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on June 16, 2021, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2021, 11:04:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/104163744_1379006458960830_6496641950938086681_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ZdIbbWsCWDUAX8HTXCN&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f0fb54191525c114a3f93d30fbabe9bd&oe=60CFB862)

No, but I have noticed how conservatives look all blocky and pixelated. They might want to get that checked out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 16, 2021, 12:54:11 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 16, 2021, 12:05:20 PM
It's never about consistency, Valmy. It's about sense of belonging.

Which is why these memes are actively dangerous. A minority in the country has convinced itself that it represents the true country, and are, in fact, the majority. The real country is thus being stolen by a small cadre of dangerous traitors.



Well that is the problem. A person with principles, no matter how ridiculous, can at least be counted on to uphold those ideas.

But recently, with both the politicians themselves and many of their supporters, they are so flexible on what they claim is important. They announce important ideas and then are directly opposed to them just a bit later. I mean everybody is a hypocrite, I certainly do not expect consistency or anything but they seem to take it to a new level.

Well...I guess except for guns and abortion. Those seem to be the only two policies they are consistent on, so there is that I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 16, 2021, 05:47:40 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on June 16, 2021, 12:30:23 PM
No, but I have noticed how conservatives look all blocky and pixelated. They might want to get that checked out.

Squirrely Dan is not a conservative. The frequency with which he quotes his Women's Studies prof. should be a hint.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 16, 2021, 06:19:17 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on June 16, 2021, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2021, 11:04:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/104163744_1379006458960830_6496641950938086681_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ZdIbbWsCWDUAX8HTXCN&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f0fb54191525c114a3f93d30fbabe9bd&oe=60CFB862)

No, but I have noticed how conservatives look all blocky and pixelated. They might want to get that checked out.


I would replace the picture with a photo of Robert Mueller.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 17, 2021, 07:15:55 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 16, 2021, 11:11:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 16, 2021, 11:06:38 AM
The police can only suspect you are doing something illegal. The courts determine if you are doing anything illegal.

They wouldn't shoot you if you didn't disobey or do something illegal.  :rolleyes:
(My family actually believes that)
And yet they are willing to believe that police forces staged the 6 Jan coup attempt as part of a liberal plot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 17, 2021, 07:18:22 AM
I wonder what their reaction to that 2 distant strangers film is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 17, 2021, 08:44:54 AM
Have you ever noticed that the House Judiciary Committee leaves you alone if you aren't doing anything illegal?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 18, 2021, 12:09:12 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/189560418_10208748826315251_7023632703877218632_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=2dFh3u1Dsx8AX8zne8n&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=557bf36162a2eefab299983e825c558c&oe=60D26F77)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/104317122_10223418107180985_5012982162245734996_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=N0qwe2m6lWkAX-KYtp-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=54cf601cf130b312ca1a68cdaa570b32&oe=60D279D2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on June 18, 2021, 12:42:27 PM
Yeah, that sure helped Daniel Shaver, Kelly Thomas, and countless others.

Your sisters are monsters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 18, 2021, 12:59:57 PM
I think political outrage propaganda is a more powerful drug than heroin.  Just like with other drugs, once you're hooked, you reality warps, and what matters more than anything is getting your next fix.  Being in the company of fellow addicts who validate each other's addiction doesn't help either.  The addicts may not be evil, but it's still hard not to have disdain for them, especially when their addiction puts your own safety in danger.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 18, 2021, 01:15:18 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/P5T86Hk2/opi.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 18, 2021, 01:19:58 PM
What's wrong with statues of an economist?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 18, 2021, 01:26:43 PM
(https://www.berlin.de/binaries/asset/image_assets/6419515/source/1611140470/624x468/)

Berlin has a statue of Marx and Engels on one of its central plazas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 18, 2021, 01:29:26 PM
I have bad news for whoever in your family posted that, Syt.

(https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/01/e1/75/72/marx-engels-forum.jpg?w=1200&h=1200&s=1)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Karl_Marx_memorial.jpg)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Karl-Marx-Statue_in_Trier.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 18, 2021, 01:34:02 PM
Aren't these the same folks who decried the removal of statues put up in honor of traitors across the U.S.?  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 18, 2021, 01:39:48 PM
Yes, why? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 18, 2021, 01:51:54 PM
I guess they think it's some kind of gotcha?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 19, 2021, 02:47:09 AM
"stop the steal!"

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/131311736_4309619669082205_5336463984912817407_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=QkrIWwTT2mMAX-Llzu5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ac959ecbf44c60c206c3399999b057e0&oe=60D324E5)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/201675838_828078858127119_5387573210116843032_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=J2P7y1mnyrIAX_1TjqH&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f701259b0f973d12c8c88c5ac7ceae29&oe=60D26C43)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on June 19, 2021, 02:57:37 AM
We have a Karl Marx square in Barcelona. Alas, no statue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 19, 2021, 06:26:20 AM
Quote from: celedhring on June 19, 2021, 02:57:37 AM
We have a Karl Marx square in Barcelona. Alas, no statue.

Boulevard Lénine in close suburbs of Paris, i.e Ivry-sur-Seine. :frog:

Red suburb turned green however, in the meantime (not écolo though).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on June 22, 2021, 03:17:27 AM
(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/205080146_10226990662294715_8717178999424812260_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=gf5cc8nSH6IAX8bCkHa&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=999fe49476163e4c7800fd31235b5178&oe=60D7400F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 02, 2021, 01:20:33 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/203150894_350444239799930_8156901244589594582_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=0NRDDyQBDekAX-bOCUW&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=22d8dd7305fc54d3b58613fea15a2373&oe=60E38F85)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/204232391_2968051826781631_8924125527779718213_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=eFnhfdqelm0AX-7dknJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=afde75c39066cb4f94fa7adb0326a86a&oe=60E3DB86)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/106452831_2040785112712613_6798667855920044700_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Sf-W4UGRVb4AX-CFE4T&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=34fe033587db11ba5d67b7749a85f50b&oe=60E51647)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2021, 01:21:58 PM
Unemployment insurance has become the new entrant in the culture wars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 02, 2021, 01:27:03 PM
If we close the border, how exactly does one build a cross-border pipeline?  And to what purpose?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 02, 2021, 01:28:00 PM
All of those memes would have been perfectly understandable and relevant if they were posters or billboards put up by the Reagan era GOP.

None of this whackadoodle bullshit is new - the only difference is that what used to be the fringe is now the center.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on July 02, 2021, 01:53:41 PM
How do we defend Israel? Send them even more military aid? Veto more stuff in the UN in their favor? Give the Israel lobby more power? I'm not sure what we're currently not doing, short of nuking their enemies, to defend Israel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 02, 2021, 01:55:33 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 02, 2021, 01:53:41 PM
How do we defend Israel? Send them even more military aid? Veto more stuff in the UN in their favor? Give the Israel lobby more power? I'm not sure what we're currently not doing, short of nuking their enemies, to defend Israel.

I think that's short hand for moving the embassy to Jerusalem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on July 02, 2021, 01:58:55 PM
How many times do we do that before we get credit for it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 02, 2021, 02:23:32 PM
I love how they're utterly in the thrall of the elites yet claim to be the ones against the elites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 03, 2021, 01:38:07 AM
STOP THE STEAL! :tinfoil:

(https://i.postimg.cc/sxHv0d5P/bol.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 03, 2021, 01:53:38 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/73458870_2502555313163869_1969453065987686400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=XHtlbOd6p64AX-DC1b1&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=336532c6abfa3a8d7ec3379b05b810a4&oe=60E699EC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 03, 2021, 02:46:47 PM
Conscription is the real freedom.

Child abuse and religious fanaticism prevent violence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on July 03, 2021, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 03, 2021, 01:53:38 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/73458870_2502555313163869_1969453065987686400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=XHtlbOd6p64AX-DC1b1&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=336532c6abfa3a8d7ec3379b05b810a4&oe=60E699EC)

:wacko:

Slavery is freedom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 03, 2021, 03:20:31 PM
Heh. Nutters in the UK always cry about that too. Despite usually coming from the generation after national service ended. You never really hear the same from those who did go through it for some odd reason.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on July 03, 2021, 08:06:40 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 03, 2021, 01:53:38 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/73458870_2502555313163869_1969453065987686400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=XHtlbOd6p64AX-DC1b1&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=336532c6abfa3a8d7ec3379b05b810a4&oe=60E699EC)


Ah, no.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 04, 2021, 12:06:31 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 02, 2021, 01:53:41 PM
How do we defend Israel? Send them even more military aid? Veto more stuff in the UN in their favor? Give the Israel lobby more power? I'm not sure what we're currently not doing, short of nuking their enemies, to defend Israel.
I wonder if whoever created and posted that meme has gotten the news that Israel is now governed by wide coalition that includes left and Arab parties and if so, whether it would change their view on defending Israel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 04, 2021, 02:45:41 AM
That might know how tenuous that coalition is, and how it could very easily unravel and flip over again after not too long. 

But I doubt that they think that deeply.

Nor is it the point.  The support for Israel from the those on the right with a religious bent is messianic, not political. 

Or, to steal a line from the late Christopher Hitchens, they support Israel the way the rope supports the hanging man...as they think Israel will bring about the second coming of h0d Jr. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 04, 2021, 11:19:35 AM
Quote from: Zanza on July 04, 2021, 12:06:31 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 02, 2021, 01:53:41 PM
How do we defend Israel? Send them even more military aid? Veto more stuff in the UN in their favor? Give the Israel lobby more power? I'm not sure what we're currently not doing, short of nuking their enemies, to defend Israel.
I wonder if whoever created and posted that meme has gotten the news that Israel is now governed by wide coalition that includes left and Arab parties and if so, whether it would change their view on defending Israel.

As Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 04, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 04, 2021, 01:47:14 PM
QuoteAs Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 04, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.
Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 02:32:46 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 01:47:14 PM
QuoteAs Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 04, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.
Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

This account is only true of a small minority, but it has become a very compelling theme for certain political points of view.

The reality is that US support for Israel is not confined to evangelicals, and even among evangelicals, there are numerous reasons for it.

You may well believe these reasons are mistaken (or an "excuse" as you put it), but if you ignore their existence, you will have a distorted opinion of why the situation exists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 02:44:16 PM
I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 04, 2021, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 02:44:16 PM
I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.
Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 04, 2021, 02:55:58 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 01:47:14 PM
QuoteAs Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 04, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.
Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

I don't think it does...for the most part.

And I agree with Teach, there is certainly a presence on the American right, that is not of the religious-nuttery bent that sees Israel as a lone democracy in a region of authoritarian/corrupt/theocratic political nightmares.  And they're not wrong. 

The tragedy of the Israel/Palestinian divide, is that it likely really is unsolvable without one side destroying or driving out the other...and trying to gauge which side is worse, or acts worse, is probably futile...as either side, if in a superior position (as Israel is now), would undoubtedly act in varying degrees of shitiness towards each other.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 04, 2021, 03:07:53 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 04, 2021, 02:55:58 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 01:47:14 PM
QuoteAs Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 04, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.
Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

And I agree with Teach, there is certainly a presence on the American right, that is not of the religious-nuttery bent that sees Israel as a lone democracy in a region of authoritarian/corrupt/theocratic political nightmares.  And they're not wrong. 
I don't see Israel as free of corruption and theocracy.  Religious fringe movements get a lot of influence on government policies, as much as US Evangilicals do, for a fraction of the number.  And corruption, well, I think Israel's as had a few shining examples of it.
I don't Israël as being vastly superior to Jordan, or even Egypt.  If Palestinians protests, they'll be mowed down like the Egyptian does to its own population.  Being less theocratic than Israel and Saudi Arabia ain't much of an achievement, imho. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 02:44:16 PM
I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.
Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.

:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 04, 2021, 03:07:53 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 04, 2021, 02:55:58 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 01:47:14 PM
QuoteAs Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 04, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.
Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

And I agree with Teach, there is certainly a presence on the American right, that is not of the religious-nuttery bent that sees Israel as a lone democracy in a region of authoritarian/corrupt/theocratic political nightmares.  And they're not wrong. 
I don't see Israel as free of corruption and theocracy.  Religious fringe movements get a lot of influence on government policies, as much as US Evangilicals do, for a fraction of the number.  And corruption, well, I think Israel's as had a few shining examples of it.
I don't Israël as being vastly superior to Jordan, or even Egypt.  If Palestinians protests, they'll be mowed down like the Egyptian does to its own population.  Being less theocratic than Israel and Saudi Arabia ain't much of an achievement, imho. :P

Israel has plenty of corruption - the difference is, it has courts who can, and do, charge and convict the corrupt. Even Israeli PMs have been convicted.

Israel has plenty of religious nut jobs, and the Israeli electoral system gives them some influence, but their influence tends to be confined to certain areas (like upholding archaic marriage laws or giving social assistance to religious students). This is irritating to the largely secular majority, but hardly makes Israel a theocracy. The current Israeli government, by the way, has none of the traditional Jewish religious lunatics - but does have an Islamic party member, so go figure.

If you don't think this is superior to Egypt (which is run by a military dictatorship that overthrew an Islamic government) or Jordan (which is run by an actual heriditary monarch), you are delusional.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 03:45:47 PM
In terms of corruption, Israel ranks 35 in the world (the US ranks 25).

Egypt ranks 117, and Jordan at 60.

https://www.transparency.org/en/countries/united-states

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on July 04, 2021, 04:01:38 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 02:44:16 PM
I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.
Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.

He's talking about you, dude.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 04, 2021, 04:03:50 PM
Israel differs from its neighbors by being Jewish and by being democratic. People who hate Israel do it for one or both of these reasons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 04, 2021, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 04, 2021, 04:01:38 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 02:44:16 PM
I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.
Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.

He's talking about you, dude.

:blink:
That's a bizzare leap if so.
The sort of thing you expect of the fundies we are laughing at - you don't think Israel is an absolutely perfect and saintly country that should be supported beyond question in everything then you must love hamas and want them to rule here too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 04, 2021, 04:46:35 PM
:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 04, 2021, 06:16:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 01:47:14 PM
QuoteAs Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 04, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.
Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

Israel just had a prime minister ousted through an election and an arab party forming part of the governing coalition.

Not sure why the "excuse" is wearing thin now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 04, 2021, 06:49:01 PM
Israel irritates me because for over 25 years they have, for the most part, undermined and flaunted our efforts in the Middle East through their nationalistic land grabbing. And then I get mad at my government for continually letting Israel get away with it instead of playing hardball.

But hopefully with one of the key sources of all this malignance being removed this will stop.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 04, 2021, 06:52:07 PM
QuoteIsrael just had a prime minister ousted through an election and an arab party forming part of the governing coalition.

Not sure why the "excuse" is wearing thin now.

Probably because of all the things that have happened since 1995? Sure this development is good but in order for it to not wear thin we need to see a change in policy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 06:52:50 PM
To be fair - the immediate international situation has never been less risky for Israel than recently.

In the past, they faced military coalitions of most of their neighbours, who were (more or less) united and agreed among themselves that the defeat of Israel was a major goal.

Now, that alliance against them has been comprehensively broken. Lebanon and Syria have collapsed as countries, are in no position to seriously challenge Israel even if they wanted to. They have a peace deal with Egypt and Jordan that looks pretty solid. Indeed, Israel is now part of a kind of informal alliance with a bunch of Arab nations - who are far more concerned about the challenge posed by Iran and Turkey, then they are by Israel.

The Palestinian cause remains very popular with the Arab street, and it is likely this will continue, but the chances of Arab armies appearing to champion the Palestinian cause is receding into the past.

All of which makes Israel objectively safer than it has been in the past. Though it is of course still subject to terrorism, from both Palistinian factions, particularly Hamas, and from Israeli right wing extremists. The primary problem is Israel and Palestine's inability to reach anything like a comprehensive peace deal. People on the political left tend to point to Israel's relatively safe geopolitical position, and assign the blame for the stalled peace process to Israel, who could easily make more concessions. They also note, correctly, that Israel has taken the stalled peace process as licence to carve off bits of land that they want for themselves. Many on the Israeli right have given up on the peace process ever happening. There is a tendency to simply take what they want and then wall the rest off and forget about them.

What people on the political left largely overlook is why the peace process is stalled. Which is down to the Palestinians making demands that no Israeli leaders could ever accept - handing over their capital city to Palestine, and offering Palestinians an unfettered "right of return" to what is now Israel. The left also tends to overlook the various events that have discredited the peace process from the Israeli side - for example, the unilateral decision by Israel to evacuate Gaza, which ended disasterously with Hamas taking over the place and making it a citadel to launch attacks on Israel. This hardly endeared Israelis to making further unilateral concessions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 04, 2021, 06:55:06 PM
It would just be nice if Israel did what the United States had asked them to do, much less the Palestinians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 06:55:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 04, 2021, 06:49:01 PM
Israel irritates me because for over 25 years they have, for the most part, undermined and flaunted our efforts in the Middle East through their nationalistic land grabbing. And then I get mad at my government for continually letting Israel get away with it instead of playing hardball.

But hopefully with one of the key sources of all this malignance being removed this will stop.

Your efforts in the middle east have been horribly disasterous, without any aid in that from Israel.

The Iraq war has done more damage than any amount of Israeli land grabbing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 04, 2021, 06:58:28 PM
Ok so Israel should just say fuck you US and expand their settlements when we are their biggest supporter? And they should do this because of Iraq? Ok dude, whatever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 07:04:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 04, 2021, 06:58:28 PM
Ok so Israel should just say fuck you US and expand their settlements when we are their biggest supporter? And they should do this because of Iraq? Ok dude, whatever.
Not what I said. At all.

I think Israeli land grabbing is a terrible thing, and a real obstruction to peace in the region. As I pointed out in my post above.

I am just finding somewhat absurd the notion that Israel is undermining all the good the US is doing in the region.

The Israelis do what they want because the US is widely seen in the ME to be unreliable and easy to manipulate. That also explains the anxiety of certain gulf Arab states to form an alliance with Israel - and vice versa. A new US leader could easily wash their hands of the region, and dump them like Trump dumped the Kurds.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 04, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
If you don't think this is superior to Egypt (which is run by a military dictatorship that overthrew an Islamic government) or Jordan (which is run by an actual heriditary monarch), you are delusional.
I think democracy is better.  I don't think the way some country do it are better than some of the lighter dictatorship.  When there were protests in Jordan, the govt didn't mow down the protestors, like Syria did.  Given how experiment in democracy always give these countries islamic govt that work as hard as they can to suppress democracy, I am not convinced a fully democratic Jordan would be in the region's best interests.

Btw, Jordan is a Constitutional monarchy, just like the Canada you love.  You don't get to pick your next King or Queen, nor do you get to pick your next Governor General or Lieutenant, errr.. sorry, Lefftenant  Governor. ;) 

It's not absolute monarchy à la Louis XIV, the King can still be overriden.  He's a tad more powerful than the Canadian Prime Minister under a majority govt, but not by that much.  The major difference obviously is the people do not vote for their government.  But so far, for a non democracy, it has done some good. 

There isn't a cast of people caught between two zones, not citizens but still subject to the authority of the government that may decide it needs their lands the next morning and force them out of their homes.  Official language is Arabic while Israël is now strictly Hebrew, as a way to reinforce the idea that Arabis-Israelis aren't true citizens of the country.  There's freedom of religion and independants tribunals.

All in all, not bad-at-all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 04, 2021, 07:16:14 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 06:52:50 PM
What people on the political left largely overlook is why the peace process is stalled. Which is down to the Palestinians making demands that no Israeli leaders could ever accept - handing over their capital city to Palestine, and offering Palestinians an unfettered "right of return" to what is now Israel. The left also tends to overlook the various events that have discredited the peace process from the Israeli side - for example, the unilateral decision by Israel to evacuate Gaza, which ended disasterously with Hamas taking over the place and making it a citadel to launch attacks on Israel. This hardly endeared Israelis to making further unilateral concessions.
I'm not of the left.  At least, I don't consider myself of the left.

You make fair points, obviously.  You just forget that it takes 2 to tango.  Israel made unreasonable demands too, like taking 2/3 of the West Bank and leaving Gaza overcrowded.  Or with the current government, not giving Palestinians full independance and no guarantees that it won't take their lands and their homes, even after a treaty is signed.

The peace process is stalled because the Palestinians want everyone who wishes it back in Israel and Israel does not even want to leave a tiny bit of parcel in Palestinian hands and has kept colonization active all the while they were negotiating for peace.

Hamas doesn't want peace anyway, they'll go as far as to acknowledge there is a land called Israel and they'll agree to an independant Palestine sitting side by side with an Israel land while they work on expelling the Jews to the sea.

No matter what we discuss, these people don't want peace.  The last Israeli head of state who talked of peace was shot by his own people.  Any Palestinian leader who talked of peace without a right of return would get shot by his own people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 04, 2021, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 07:04:10 PM
I am just finding somewhat absurd the notion that Israel is undermining all the good the US is doing in the region.

Let's just say it ain't helping.  Israel's policies are creating major resentment amongst the arab populace and the US is constantly defending said policies and shielding Israel from any negative consequence.

I think sometimes, the US could use some of its muscle to push Israel to bend another way, rather than tacitelly accepting everything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 07:49:59 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 04, 2021, 04:01:38 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 02:44:16 PM
I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.
Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.

He's talking about you, dude.

:blink:
That's a bizzare leap if so.
The sort of thing you expect of the fundies we are laughing at - you don't think Israel is an absolutely perfect and saintly country that should be supported beyond question in everything then you must love hamas and want them to rule here too.

I didn't say anything like this.  Let me put it this way:  Genocidal nationalism, and despotic theocracy are an intolerable evil in both the West and the Middle East.        If it is evil at home it is still evil abroad.  Hell, many of the anti-Zionists believe theocracy is bad in the Middle East.  Or at least when ISIS did it a few years back.  The condemnation and hostility towards theocracy evaporates if the theocrats turn their rockets toward Tel Aviv.

Nobody is saying Israel is perfect.  I was horrified by the latest dust-up and consider the fault to fall squarely on the Israelis.  Israel needs to stop the settlements and crack down on the settlers.  Yet this outrage must be tempered by the knowledge that Fatah, Hezbollah and Hamas are much, much worse.  ISIS gave us taste of what a final victory of the Palestinians would look like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 07:54:32 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 04, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
If you don't think this is superior to Egypt (which is run by a military dictatorship that overthrew an Islamic government) or Jordan (which is run by an actual heriditary monarch), you are delusional.
I think democracy is better.  I don't think the way some country do it are better than some of the lighter dictatorship.  When there were protests in Jordan, the govt didn't mow down the protestors, like Syria did.  Given how experiment in democracy always give these countries islamic govt that work as hard as they can to suppress democracy, I am not convinced a fully democratic Jordan would be in the region's best interests.

Btw, Jordan is a Constitutional monarchy, just like the Canada you love.  You don't get to pick your next King or Queen, nor do you get to pick your next Governor General or Lieutenant, errr.. sorry, Lefftenant  Governor. ;) 

It's not absolute monarchy à la Louis XIV, the King can still be overriden.  He's a tad more powerful than the Canadian Prime Minister under a majority govt, but not by that much.  The major difference obviously is the people do not vote for their government.  But so far, for a non democracy, it has done some good. 

There isn't a cast of people caught between two zones, not citizens but still subject to the authority of the government that may decide it needs their lands the next morning and force them out of their homes.  Official language is Arabic while Israël is now strictly Hebrew, as a way to reinforce the idea that Arabis-Israelis aren't true citizens of the country.  There's freedom of religion and independants tribunals.

All in all, not bad-at-all.

I think your view of Jordan is very ... optimistic.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/04/05/jordan-in-turmoil/amp/

As for Jordanian treatment of Palestinians ... have you ever heard of "Black September"? Makes the current Israeli actions in Gaza look like a minor scuffle.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 04, 2021, 07:16:14 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 06:52:50 PM
What people on the political left largely overlook is why the peace process is stalled. Which is down to the Palestinians making demands that no Israeli leaders could ever accept - handing over their capital city to Palestine, and offering Palestinians an unfettered "right of return" to what is now Israel. The left also tends to overlook the various events that have discredited the peace process from the Israeli side - for example, the unilateral decision by Israel to evacuate Gaza, which ended disasterously with Hamas taking over the place and making it a citadel to launch attacks on Israel. This hardly endeared Israelis to making further unilateral concessions.
I'm not of the left.  At least, I don't consider myself of the left.

You make fair points, obviously.  You just forget that it takes 2 to tango.  Israel made unreasonable demands too, like taking 2/3 of the West Bank and leaving Gaza overcrowded.  Or with the current government, not giving Palestinians full independance and no guarantees that it won't take their lands and their homes, even after a treaty is signed.

The peace process is stalled because the Palestinians want everyone who wishes it back in Israel and Israel does not even want to leave a tiny bit of parcel in Palestinian hands and has kept colonization active all the while they were negotiating for peace.

Hamas doesn't want peace anyway, they'll go as far as to acknowledge there is a land called Israel and they'll agree to an independant Palestine sitting side by side with an Israel land while they work on expelling the Jews to the sea.

No matter what we discuss, these people don't want peace.  The last Israeli head of state who talked of peace was shot by his own people.  Any Palestinian leader who talked of peace without a right of return would get shot by his own people.

Disagree. The lunatics don't want peace, but they don't represent everyone.

Rather, the Israelis do largely want peace, but after endless rejections are willing to live without it. The current status quo benefits them far more than it does Palestinians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 04, 2021, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 04, 2021, 07:04:10 PM
I am just finding somewhat absurd the notion that Israel is undermining all the good the US is doing in the region.

Let's just say it ain't helping.  Israel's policies are creating major resentment amongst the arab populace and the US is constantly defending said policies and shielding Israel from any negative consequence.

I think sometimes, the US could use some of its muscle to push Israel to bend another way, rather than tacitelly accepting everything.

The US could, and I too wish they would discourage the Israelis from expanding settlements ... but there is no way the Israelis would ever give up Jerusalem, or agree to a self-destructive 'right of return'. And these are minimum Palestinian demands!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 04, 2021, 08:03:23 PM
From everything that I heard about Jordan's monarchy, it sounds like a perfect model of governance for a Middle Eastern country.  To be fair, though, my only knowledge of the matter comes from King Abdullah's CNN interview, so there may be other opinions on the matter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 04, 2021, 08:39:58 PM
The status quo has always benefitted Israel, and that's why there's been no Israeli government desire to permanently settle the Palestinian question.  The Palestinian leadership likewise has seldom been interested in a permanent settlement, because that would work against their own crony system based on scarcity.   It takes a lot more blood than has been spilled so far to gag self-satisfied politicians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 01:18:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 07:49:59 PM]

I didn't say anything like this.  Let me put it this way:  Genocidal nationalism, and despotic theocracy are an intolerable evil in both the West and the Middle East.        If it is evil at home it is still evil abroad.  Hell, many of the anti-Zionists believe theocracy is bad in the Middle East.  Or at least when ISIS did it a few years back.  The condemnation and hostility towards theocracy evaporates if the theocrats turn their rockets toward Tel Aviv.

Nobody is saying Israel is perfect.  I was horrified by the latest dust-up and consider the fault to fall squarely on the Israelis.  Israel needs to stop the settlements and crack down on the settlers.  Yet this outrage must be tempered by the knowledge that Fatah, Hezbollah and Hamas are much, much worse.  ISIS gave us taste of what a final victory of the Palestinians would look like.

I don't think you understand the bulk of mainstream western critics of Israel.
Nobody wants a "final victory or the Palestinians", the very idea of it is mad, it just isn't going to happen. It isn't 1970 any longer, and it's pretty obvious wiping a nation off the map is not a great idea.

The Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish. Only without the positive spin of there being any intent to help the less developed people.
Palestine as a country in perpetual crisis and hanging on by a thread will naturally tend towards extremists. For any criticism of the political situation in Palestine some of the blame must point Israels way. Regardless its irrelevant to the whole issue, the Palestinian people deserve their independence no matter what.

The fact of the matter is both sides are pretty dickish. But in that sort of situation then it's the biggest and strongest dick that you condemn the most. They're by far the ones behaving the worst at the moment. That if the shoe was on the other foot Palestine would be worse is irrelevant as it's not and isn't going to be.
That Israel is supposed to be a western Liberal democracy and does what it does makes them all the more worthy of criticism - and more likely to actually be swayed.
The bulk of the responsibility for making moves in the peace process is on Israel. Agency is theirs. The Palestinians are such a small player in their own crisis that stuff like the settlements doesn't even involve them, it's entirely on Israels head to stop doing that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 01:35:04 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 01:18:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 07:49:59 PM]

I didn't say anything like this.  Let me put it this way:  Genocidal nationalism, and despotic theocracy are an intolerable evil in both the West and the Middle East.        If it is evil at home it is still evil abroad.  Hell, many of the anti-Zionists believe theocracy is bad in the Middle East.  Or at least when ISIS did it a few years back.  The condemnation and hostility towards theocracy evaporates if the theocrats turn their rockets toward Tel Aviv.

Nobody is saying Israel is perfect.  I was horrified by the latest dust-up and consider the fault to fall squarely on the Israelis.  Israel needs to stop the settlements and crack down on the settlers.  Yet this outrage must be tempered by the knowledge that Fatah, Hezbollah and Hamas are much, much worse.  ISIS gave us taste of what a final victory of the Palestinians would look like.

I don't think you understand the bulk of mainstream western critics of Israel.
Nobody wants a "final victory or the Palestinians", the very idea of it is mad, it just isn't going to happen. It isn't 1970 any longer, and it's pretty obvious wiping a nation off the map is not a great idea.

The Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish. Only without the positive spin of there being any intent to help the less developed people.
Palestine as a country in perpetual crisis and hanging on by a thread will naturally tend towards extremists. For any criticism of the political situation in Palestine some of the blame must point Israels way. Regardless its irrelevant to the whole issue, the Palestinian people deserve their independence no matter what.

The fact of the matter is both sides are pretty dickish. But in that sort of situation then it's the biggest and strongest dick that you condemn the most. They're by far the ones behaving the worst at the moment. That if the shoe was on the other foot Palestine would be worse is irrelevant as it's not and isn't going to be.
That Israel is supposed to be a western Liberal democracy and does what it does makes them all the more worthy of criticism - and more likely to actually be swayed.
The bulk of the responsibility for making moves in the peace process is on Israel. Agency is theirs. The Palestinians are such a small player in their own crisis that stuff like the settlements doesn't even involve them, it's entirely on Israels head to stop doing that.

This is exactly why Israelis tend to not listen to criticism from left leaning Western critics. They know they will be criticized no matter what they do, that the critics will simply blame them for the situation no matter what, that the critics impute no agency whatsoever to the Palestinians.

Not that there isn't anything to critique on the Israeli side. There is plenty. But the volume and tone of much Western critique is self-defeating, if the intent is to actually influence Israeli behaviour.

You can see this in the commonly thrown around terms like "apartheid" and "genocide". Used too loosely, the terms become meaningless, mere verbiage - a rhetoric of attack that identifies the Israelis as the enemy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 05, 2021, 01:51:45 AM
I think Israel suffers, among other things, from a similar problem as the U.S. As democratic state with a rule grounded in laws and human rights, they're often held to a higher standard than the Russias or Chinas of the world (whether that is fair or justified is a separate discussion), leading to a stronger (and sometimes exaggerated) backlash.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 04:28:04 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 01:18:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 07:49:59 PM]

I didn't say anything like this.  Let me put it this way:  Genocidal nationalism, and despotic theocracy are an intolerable evil in both the West and the Middle East.        If it is evil at home it is still evil abroad.  Hell, many of the anti-Zionists believe theocracy is bad in the Middle East.  Or at least when ISIS did it a few years back.  The condemnation and hostility towards theocracy evaporates if the theocrats turn their rockets toward Tel Aviv.

Nobody is saying Israel is perfect.  I was horrified by the latest dust-up and consider the fault to fall squarely on the Israelis.  Israel needs to stop the settlements and crack down on the settlers.  Yet this outrage must be tempered by the knowledge that Fatah, Hezbollah and Hamas are much, much worse.  ISIS gave us taste of what a final victory of the Palestinians would look like.

I don't think you understand the bulk of mainstream western critics of Israel.
Nobody wants a "final victory or the Palestinians", the very idea of it is mad, it just isn't going to happen. It isn't 1970 any longer, and it's pretty obvious wiping a nation off the map is not a great idea.

The Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish. Only without the positive spin of there being any intent to help the less developed people.
Palestine as a country in perpetual crisis and hanging on by a thread will naturally tend towards extremists. For any criticism of the political situation in Palestine some of the blame must point Israels way. Regardless its irrelevant to the whole issue, the Palestinian people deserve their independence no matter what.

The fact of the matter is both sides are pretty dickish. But in that sort of situation then it's the biggest and strongest dick that you condemn the most. They're by far the ones behaving the worst at the moment. That if the shoe was on the other foot Palestine would be worse is irrelevant as it's not and isn't going to be.
That Israel is supposed to be a western Liberal democracy and does what it does makes them all the more worthy of criticism - and more likely to actually be swayed.
The bulk of the responsibility for making moves in the peace process is on Israel. Agency is theirs. The Palestinians are such a small player in their own crisis that stuff like the settlements doesn't even involve them, it's entirely on Israels head to stop doing that.


This is the bigotry of low expectations...  The Palestinians have agency. If they execute a gay person or a Muslim who sold land to a Jew it's not Israel's fault.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 04:30:02 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 04:28:04 AM


This is the bigotry of low expectations...  The Palestinians have agency. If they execute a gay person or a Muslim who sold land to a Jew it's not Israel's fault.
Which is irrelevant to the issue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 05:29:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 01:18:32 AMThe Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish. Only without the positive spin of there being any intent to help the less developed people.

What the flying fuck kind of an idiot says something so insanely stupid? That's Trump level whataboutism from the left.

I mean yeah, the Palestinians haven't had a good century with everyone and their mother pecking on them. But that does not give them the right to be a completely evil totalitarian police state. They are, AFAIK, borderline ISIS in Gaza and Fatah is just your regular incompetent Arab state jacked up to eleven. In no way, shape or form is it an iffy argument to claim that the Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 05:43:17 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 04:30:02 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 04:28:04 AM


This is the bigotry of low expectations...  The Palestinians have agency. If they execute a gay person or a Muslim who sold land to a Jew it's not Israel's fault.
Which is irrelevant to the issue.


What is relevant then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 06:05:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 05:43:17 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 04:30:02 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 04:28:04 AM


This is the bigotry of low expectations...  The Palestinians have agency. If they execute a gay person or a Muslim who sold land to a Jew it's not Israel's fault.
Which is irrelevant to the issue.


What is relevant then?

The conflict between the two, Palestinian attacks on Israel, Israeli attacks on Palestine, settlements, the border wall, checkpoints, status of Jerusalem, cross-border workers, land exchanges, etc...

Quote from: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 05:29:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 01:18:32 AMThe Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish. Only without the positive spin of there being any intent to help the less developed people.

What the flying fuck kind of an idiot says something so insanely stupid? That's Trump level whataboutism from the left.

I mean yeah, the Palestinians haven't had a good century with everyone and their mother pecking on them. But that does not give them the right to be a completely evil totalitarian police state. They are, AFAIK, borderline ISIS in Gaza and Fatah is just your regular incompetent Arab state jacked up to eleven. In no way, shape or form is it an iffy argument to claim that the Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli.
Don't say something so utterly stupid whilst accusing someone else of being stupid. This is nothing like whataboutism. In fact its you who seems to be taking a side closer to whataboutism.
Lovely of you to continue digging into the white man's burden hole there. If a country has a worse government then you're entitled to do whatever you want to them!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 07:24:44 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 06:05:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 05:43:17 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 04:30:02 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 04:28:04 AM


This is the bigotry of low expectations...  The Palestinians have agency. If they execute a gay person or a Muslim who sold land to a Jew it's not Israel's fault.
Which is irrelevant to the issue.


What is relevant then?

The conflict between the two, Palestinian attacks on Israel, Israeli attacks on Palestine, settlements, the border wall, checkpoints, status of Jerusalem, cross-border workers, land exchanges, etc...

Quote from: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 05:29:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 01:18:32 AMThe Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish. Only without the positive spin of there being any intent to help the less developed people.

What the flying fuck kind of an idiot says something so insanely stupid? That's Trump level whataboutism from the left.

I mean yeah, the Palestinians haven't had a good century with everyone and their mother pecking on them. But that does not give them the right to be a completely evil totalitarian police state. They are, AFAIK, borderline ISIS in Gaza and Fatah is just your regular incompetent Arab state jacked up to eleven. In no way, shape or form is it an iffy argument to claim that the Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli.
Don't say something so utterly stupid whilst accusing someone else of being stupid. This is nothing like whataboutism. In fact its you who seems to be taking a side closer to whataboutism.
Lovely of you to continue digging into the white man's burden hole there. If a country has a worse government then you're entitled to do whatever you want to them!

Illegal use of a strawman.  15 yard penalty, and loss of down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 07:32:12 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 07:24:44 AM

Illegal use of a strawman.  15 yard penalty, and loss of down.
Thats effectively what he is defending. The Palestinian government is shitty ergo its right to support Israel. That's an awful argument which really does lead down the lines of 19th century excuses.
There could be some potential glimpses of viability in that if Israel was actually helping Palestine to develop, but that has absolutely nothing to do with their actions...which are having quite the opposite effect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 07:45:59 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 06:05:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 05:43:17 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 04:30:02 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 04:28:04 AM


This is the bigotry of low expectations...  The Palestinians have agency. If they execute a gay person or a Muslim who sold land to a Jew it's not Israel's fault.
Which is irrelevant to the issue.


What is relevant then?

The conflict between the two, Palestinian attacks on Israel, Israeli attacks on Palestine, settlements, the border wall, checkpoints, status of Jerusalem, cross-border workers, land exchanges, etc...

I would think that nature of the Palestinian regime is an important factor in deciding if a possible Palestinian state should exist.  It's a factor in international relations everywhere else.  You have proven my point that people who decry religious fundamentalism in their home country are basically okay with in Gaza.  It's not their fault!  The Israelis made them that way!  I can also see why you defended Corbyn so much on this matter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 07:48:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 07:45:59 AM

I would think that nature of the Palestinian regime is an important factor in deciding if a possible Palestinian state should exist.  It's a factor in international relations everywhere else.  You have proven my point that people who decry religious fundamentalism in their home country are basically okay with in Gaza.  It's not their fault!  The Israelis made them that way!  I can also see why you defended Corbyn so much on this matter.
So...China shouldn't exist because the CCP is so awful?
After WW2 Germany should have just been cleansed from the face of the earth?

Interesting you keep assuming with zero evidence that I'm OK with Gaza.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 07:32:12 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 07:24:44 AM

Illegal use of a strawman.  15 yard penalty, and loss of down.
Thats effectively what he is defending. The Palestinian government is shitty ergo its right to support Israel. That's an awful argument which really does lead down the lines of 19th century excuses.
There could be some potential glimpses of viability in that if Israel was actually helping Palestine to develop, but that has absolutely nothing to do with their actions...which are having quite the opposite effect.



:wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 07:54:36 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 07:48:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 07:45:59 AM

I would think that nature of the Palestinian regime is an important factor in deciding if a possible Palestinian state should exist.  It's a factor in international relations everywhere else.  You have proven my point that people who decry religious fundamentalism in their home country are basically okay with in Gaza.  It's not their fault!  The Israelis made them that way!  I can also see why you defended Corbyn so much on this matter.
So...China shouldn't exist because the CCP is so awful?
After WW2 Germany should have just been cleansed from the face of the earth?

Interesting you keep assuming with zero evidence that I'm OK with Gaza.

I am perfectly fine with the idea that the governments on Nazi Germany and the People's Republic of China should not exist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 07:56:36 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 07:54:36 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 07:48:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 07:45:59 AM

I would think that nature of the Palestinian regime is an important factor in deciding if a possible Palestinian state should exist.  It's a factor in international relations everywhere else.  You have proven my point that people who decry religious fundamentalism in their home country are basically okay with in Gaza.  It's not their fault!  The Israelis made them that way!  I can also see why you defended Corbyn so much on this matter.
So...China shouldn't exist because the CCP is so awful?
After WW2 Germany should have just been cleansed from the face of the earth?

Interesting you keep assuming with zero evidence that I'm OK with Gaza.

I am perfectly fine with the idea that the governments on Nazi Germany and the People's Republic of China should not exist.
I specified the nations of Germany and China.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 05, 2021, 08:19:23 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 07:48:04 AM

So...China shouldn't exist because the CCP is so awful?
After WW2 Germany should have just been cleansed from the face of the earth?


Illegal use of a strawman.  Second offense.  15 yard penalty, and the player is ejected from the game.


FFS, Tyr, is it impossible for you to construct logical arguments, or do you simply not bother?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 08:21:40 AM
Then you are making a strawman.  Nobody has suggested we exterminate the Palestinians.  I would note that Germany is a terrible example for your argument.  There's a reason why Prussia does not appear on maps these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 08:51:35 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 06:05:36 AM
Don't say something so utterly stupid whilst accusing someone else of being stupid. This is nothing like whataboutism. In fact its you who seems to be taking a side closer to whataboutism.
Lovely of you to continue digging into the white man's burden hole there. If a country has a worse government then you're entitled to do whatever you want to them!

Holy reading comprehension fail Batman! Go watch some Al Aqsa TV or, perhaps more fittingly to your level, read some al Fateh you useful idiot you!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 05, 2021, 08:53:17 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 07:49:59 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 04, 2021, 04:01:38 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 04, 2021, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 04, 2021, 02:44:16 PM
I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.
Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.

He's talking about you, dude.

:blink:
That's a bizzare leap if so.
The sort of thing you expect of the fundies we are laughing at - you don't think Israel is an absolutely perfect and saintly country that should be supported beyond question in everything then you must love hamas and want them to rule here too.

I didn't say anything like this.  Let me put it this way:  Genocidal nationalism, and despotic theocracy are an intolerable evil in both the West and the Middle East.        If it is evil at home it is still evil abroad.  Hell, many of the anti-Zionists believe theocracy is bad in the Middle East.  Or at least when ISIS did it a few years back.  The condemnation and hostility towards theocracy evaporates if the theocrats turn their rockets toward Tel Aviv.

Nobody is saying Israel is perfect.  I was horrified by the latest dust-up and consider the fault to fall squarely on the Israelis.  Israel needs to stop the settlements and crack down on the settlers.  Yet this outrage must be tempered by the knowledge that Fatah, Hezbollah and Hamas are much, much worse.  ISIS gave us taste of what a final victory of the Palestinians would look like.

Speaking of strawmen, that's a nice one.

Fatah is member of the Socialist International, so vaguely left-wing. The PLO being mostly Fatah these ways. Very far from Daesh. It's not even on the same page as islamo-nationalist Hamas, which keeps his attacks limited to Israel (and Palestine to suppress other factions). Hamas benefitted from Israeli maneuvers leaving it relatively unharmed to undermine the PLO. That has changed, of course.
Besides, their theocratic rule in Gaza makes easy for Israeli intelligence services to get intel on them, given all the disaffected people.

Hezbollah being a different beast, a proxy of Syria and Iran, terrorist and guerrilla organisation indeed, but not on the level of Daesh. Made a name as a "resistance" organisation in Lebanon thanks to the 1982 Israeli invasion, provoked in no small part by the Abu Nidal organisation, a splinter and bitter rival of Fatah. This very psychotic Abu Nidal mercenary, was responsible for killing more Palestinians than Israelis in internal purges or internecine warfare. He was even condemned to death by the PLO court in absentia, before dying suspiciously in Iraq in 2002.

As for former terrorists making it to power, maybe maybe not. Just look at Israel: Menahem Begin went on to become prime minister, and he was part of Irgun. He signed a peace treaty with Egypt.

That being said, I agree some double standards are ridiculous, but unsurprising, such as national-islamist Turks denouncing the illegal settlement of the West Bank, given the Cyprus shenanigans. Or the lack of criticism in the muslim world towards the treatment of Uighurs by China. Realpolitik for the latter I guess.

Long story short, the Palestinians are screwed, with a divided leadership. If you think the PLO/Fatah in the West Bank is bad and corrupt, it's true but the alternative would be worse, as in Hamas. This is why the international community has turned a blind eye to Fatah overstay in power, due to lack of elections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 09:13:49 AM
QuoteIllegal use of a strawman.  Second offense.  15 yard penalty, and the player is ejected from the game.
Its called an analogy dear.
Quote
FFS, Tyr, is it impossible for you to construct logical arguments, or do you simply not bother?
:lol:
From you.

Quote from: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 08:51:35 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 06:05:36 AM
Don't say something so utterly stupid whilst accusing someone else of being stupid. This is nothing like whataboutism. In fact its you who seems to be taking a side closer to whataboutism.
Lovely of you to continue digging into the white man's burden hole there. If a country has a worse government then you're entitled to do whatever you want to them!

Holy reading comprehension fail Batman! Go watch some Al Aqsa TV or, perhaps more fittingly to your level, read some al Fateh you useful idiot you!
Parlez-vous anglais?
As your blathering makes zero sense.

Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 08:21:40 AM
Then you are making a strawman.  Nobody has suggested we exterminate the Palestinians. 

Yet you do seem to be suggesting we wipe out Palestine. That the entire country is forfeit and worthy of zero sympathy because Hamas are in power in the West Bank.

Quote
I would note that Germany is a terrible example for your argument.
Not really. They're a perfect example of a crappy government not necessarily meaning an unworthy people.
Nonetheless at the time there were those making arguments along your lines.

Quote
There's a reason why Prussia does not appear on maps these days.

...because Prussia united into Germany and then had most of its old territory conquered?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 09:13:49 AM
Quote from: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 08:51:35 AM

Holy reading comprehension fail Batman! Go watch some Al Aqsa TV or, perhaps more fittingly to your level, read some al Fateh you useful idiot you!
Parlez-vous anglais?
As your blathering makes zero sense.

Let me help you:

Holy reading comprehension fail Batman! -> Implies that you did not understand what I was trying to say, something that you seem quite alone about, everyone else seems to have understood ok.

Go watch some Al Aqsa TV -> Implies that you seem to not understand what you are talking about, go study the different Palestinian governments, primarily Hamas, might open your eyes a bit.

or, perhaps more fittingly to your level, read some al Fateh -> Implies that you seem to not understand what you are talking about and that the adult oriented al Aqsa TV might be too complex, so al Fateh is an interesting childrens magazine printed by Hamas.

you useful idiot you! -> Well, the term useful idiot is from the cold war. Go read Wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 09:29:30 AM
Quote from: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 09:13:49 AM
Quote from: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 08:51:35 AM

Holy reading comprehension fail Batman! Go watch some Al Aqsa TV or, perhaps more fittingly to your level, read some al Fateh you useful idiot you!
Parlez-vous anglais?
As your blathering makes zero sense.

Let me help you:

Holy reading comprehension fail Batman! -> Implies that you did not understand what I was trying to say, something that you seem quite alone about, everyone else seems to have understood ok.

Go watch some Al Aqsa TV -> Implies that you seem to not understand what you are talking about, go study the different Palestinian governments, primarily Hamas, might open your eyes a bit.

or, perhaps more fittingly to your level, read some al Fateh -> Implies that you seem to not understand what you are talking about and that the adult oriented al Aqsa TV might be too complex, so al Fateh is an interesting childrens magazine printed by Hamas.

you useful idiot you! -> Well, the term useful idiot is from the cold war. Go read Wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot)
You seem to be the useful idiot here sunshine.
Interesting you keep barking down that Hamas baaaaad rabbit hole despite it being completely and utterly irrelevant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 05, 2021, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 09:13:49 AM
QuoteIllegal use of a strawman.  Second offense.  15 yard penalty, and the player is ejected from the game.
Its called an analogy dear.

No, it's not, sweet cheeks.  When you make up the other side's argument, it's called "creating a strawman argument."  An analogy is a comparison of an unfamiliar thing with a familiar thing in order to make the unfamiliar thing more easily understood.  You were comparing nothing.

Quote
Quote
FFS, Tyr, is it impossible for you to construct logical arguments, or do you simply not bother?
:lol:
From you.

Ah, so you think that switching from the strawman fallacy to the ad hom fallacy somehow makes your argument more logical?   :lmfao:

That pretty much demonstrates that the correct answer is "impossible."

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
You might want to go back and re-phrase your original comment:

Quote
The Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish.

Interpret this as something where Hamas is very much relevant, seeing as they are about half the Palestinian government. If you meant Fatah you should make that explicit, otherwise someone might take offence and think you stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 09:54:50 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 05, 2021, 08:53:17 AM
Fatah is member of the Socialist International, so vaguely left-wing. The PLO being mostly Fatah these ways. Very far from Daesh. It's not even on the same page as islamo-nationalist Hamas, which keeps his attacks limited to Israel (and Palestine to suppress other factions). Hamas benefitted from Israeli maneuvers leaving it relatively unharmed to undermine the PLO. That has changed, of course.
Besides, their theocratic rule in Gaza makes easy for Israeli intelligence services to get intel on them, given all the disaffected people.

I find this line of argument - i.e. ascribing the genesis and growth of Hamas to Israeli policy - to be interesting on two counts.  On the one hand because (as pointed out by others in the thread) it denies the Palestinian people agency and a role in choosing and shaping their own political expression.  On the other because it ignores the opposite dynamic - that Hamas, its communications, and its tactics - have shaped Israeli politics and the choices that Israeli voters have made over the last few decades.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 10:20:36 AM
Quote from: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
You might want to go back and re-phrase your original comment:

Quote
The Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish.

Interpret this as something where Hamas is very much relevant, seeing as they are about half the Palestinian government. If you meant Fatah you should make that explicit, otherwise someone might take offence and think you stupid.

I didn't mean Hamas or Fatah. Neither are relevant at all. Palestine could be governed by baby-killing-ultra-Daesh or the super-sound-peace-and-love-great-at-economics-progressives or anything in between. It has absolutely zero bearing on Palestine's right to exist and the wrongness of Israeli settlements and the nation of Palestine steadily being whittled away.

(Though I guess it would help make the whataboutist arguments of "What about Hamas! They're bad!" harder if the government in Palestine was great.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 10:29:02 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 10:20:36 AM
Quote from: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
You might want to go back and re-phrase your original comment:

Quote
The Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish.

Interpret this as something where Hamas is very much relevant, seeing as they are about half the Palestinian government. If you meant Fatah you should make that explicit, otherwise someone might take offence and think you stupid.

I didn't mean Hamas or Fatah. Neither are relevant at all. Palestine could be governed by baby-killing-ultra-Daesh or the super-sound-peace-and-love-great-at-economics-progressives or anything in between. It has absolutely zero bearing on Palestine's right to exist and the wrongness of Israeli settlements and the nation of Palestine steadily being whittled away.

(Though I guess it would help make the whataboutist arguments of "What about Hamas! They're bad!" harder if the government in Palestine was great.)

Is anyone arguing that Palestine has no right to exist, or that Israel is right to take ever more Palestinian land as settlements?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 10:33:33 AM
Being that states/nations are essentially artificial constructs of humans banding together for some kind of common good(?), I am not sure that I agree that any specific, named "nation" has an inherent "right to exist".

After all, the USA had no historical right to exist beyond the actions that those who formed it took to make it so.  One can (and we do), argue if those actions were legitimate or ethical or justifiable...but there we are. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 10:35:21 AM
And for Tyr's earlier comment...I think that if a nation does become a bunch of baby-killing fanatics (and lets throw in cannibal, Thulsa Doom worshipping snake worshippers, just for good measure.), I could easily see a justifiable argument in saying that such a nation/state would be better if others made it stop existing.*



*To avert the strawman deployers, this doesn't mean extermination of individuals in said nation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 10:42:17 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 10:29:02 AM
Is anyone arguing that Palestine has no right to exist, or that Israel is right to take ever more Palestinian land as settlements?

Anyone here or anyone generally?
Lots of people in the world have made that argument, including the last Israeli prime minister and the current one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 10:43:52 AM
QuoteBeing that states/nations are essentially artificial constructs of humans banding together for some kind of common good(?), I am not sure that I agree that any specific, named "nation" has an inherent "right to exist".

After all, the USA had no historical right to exist beyond the actions that those who formed it took to make it so.  One can (and we do), argue if those actions were legitimate or ethical or justifiable...but there we are.

American history is rather different as a settler nation. I'd definitely say history would have gone better if it didn't exist. Though I don't think anyone (sane) would argue today America doesn't deserve to exist.
All people deserve self-determination. If the Palestinians and Israelis get together and agree that a new united nation is the way to go then huzzah for them. Though thats not what the Palestinians want, so however awful their current government may be their nation deserves to exist.

QuoteAnd for Tyr's earlier comment...I think that if a nation does become a bunch of baby-killing fanatics (and lets throw in cannibal, Thulsa Doom worshipping snake worshippers, just for good measure.), I could easily see a justifiable argument in saying that such a nation/state would be better if others made it stop existing.*

*To avert the strawman deployers, this doesn't mean extermination of individuals in said nation.

Maybe if the nation is firmly artificial and based solely on the ideology of baby eating.
But in cases like Hamas or the Nazi Germany analogy where a bunch of arse holes manage to take over a nation (or a chunk of it)? -  the regime needs to go for sure, and efforts made to stop it coming back, but the nation hasn't forfeited its right of existence.


Quote from: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 10:29:02 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 10:20:36 AM
Quote from: Threviel on July 05, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
You might want to go back and re-phrase your original comment:

Quote
The Palestinian government is worse than the Israeli government - a very iffy argument. Pretty straight faced white man's burdenish.

Interpret this as something where Hamas is very much relevant, seeing as they are about half the Palestinian government. If you meant Fatah you should make that explicit, otherwise someone might take offence and think you stupid.

I didn't mean Hamas or Fatah. Neither are relevant at all. Palestine could be governed by baby-killing-ultra-Daesh or the super-sound-peace-and-love-great-at-economics-progressives or anything in between. It has absolutely zero bearing on Palestine's right to exist and the wrongness of Israeli settlements and the nation of Palestine steadily being whittled away.

(Though I guess it would help make the whataboutist arguments of "What about Hamas! They're bad!" harder if the government in Palestine was great.)

Is anyone arguing that Palestine has no right to exist, or that Israel is right to take ever more Palestinian land as settlements?

Thats what Raz apparently objected to. Commenting about the evangelicals unwavering support for Israel in all things, that they see it is an apocalyptic there can be only one sort of situation, and my reply to Ed that these days the old image of Israel being under existential threat from all sides doesn't hold up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 10:20:36 AM
I didn't mean Hamas or Fatah. Neither are relevant at all. Palestine could be governed by baby-killing-ultra-Daesh or the super-sound-peace-and-love-great-at-economics-progressives or anything in between. It has absolutely zero bearing on Palestine's right to exist and the wrongness of Israeli settlements and the nation of Palestine steadily being whittled away.

It has a lot of bearing on what it is reasonable to expect Israel to do in the present.
To take your Germany example, the fact that the Third Reich existed did not mean Germany had to be wiped from the nations of the earth.
On the other hand, the Allied powers were not going guarantee to German territory under German control while the war was still going on and Hitler was in power.  They insisted on unconditional surrender as a prerequisite to peaceful settlement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 05, 2021, 10:53:36 AM
Alternative analogy suggestion:

US - Indigenous relations. At various points of history. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 10:53:58 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 10:20:36 AM
I didn't mean Hamas or Fatah. Neither are relevant at all. Palestine could be governed by baby-killing-ultra-Daesh or the super-sound-peace-and-love-great-at-economics-progressives or anything in between. It has absolutely zero bearing on Palestine's right to exist and the wrongness of Israeli settlements and the nation of Palestine steadily being whittled away.

It has a lot of bearing on what it is reasonable to expect Israel to do in the present.
To take your Germany example, the fact that the Third Reich existed did not mean Germany had to be wiped from the nations of the earth.
On the other hand, the Allied powers were not going guarantee to German territory under German control while the war was still going on and Hitler was in power.  They insisted on unconditional surrender as a prerequisite to peaceful settlement.
Yet Israeli settlement action is in Fatah territory.
The various Israeli infringements on Palestinian sovereignty are against both sides of Palestine.
And it bares mentioning that the modern world is a very different place to that of WW2. Collateral damage these days is not kosher. Sometimes unavoidable for sure. But Israel you get the impression really doesn't do as much as they could.

Overall I really don't think the existence of Hamas matters all that much at all for the actions that Israel draws criticism for. It certainly helps feed the Israeli internal politics that put in power politicians that support these actions. But often its a very indirect link rather than a logical response.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 05, 2021, 10:54:14 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 09:54:50 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 05, 2021, 08:53:17 AM
Fatah is member of the Socialist International, so vaguely left-wing. The PLO being mostly Fatah these ways. Very far from Daesh. It's not even on the same page as islamo-nationalist Hamas, which keeps his attacks limited to Israel (and Palestine to suppress other factions). Hamas benefitted from Israeli maneuvers leaving it relatively unharmed to undermine the PLO. That has changed, of course.
Besides, their theocratic rule in Gaza makes easy for Israeli intelligence services to get intel on them, given all the disaffected people.

I find this line of argument - i.e. ascribing the genesis and growth of Hamas to Israeli policy - to be interesting on two counts.  On the one hand because (as pointed out by others in the thread) it denies the Palestinian people agency and a role in choosing and shaping their own political expression.  On the other because it ignores the opposite dynamic - that Hamas, its communications, and its tactics - have shaped Israeli politics and the choices that Israeli voters have made over the last few decades.

I mentioned this was mostly in the past, for the first count. As for Palestinian people not being asked what to do, be denied agency, that's not exactly new. From Arab states claiming to speak on their behalf, yet pursuing their own interests, sacrificing Palestinians if need be. Dates from 1947.

Also, Hamas does not leave much agency to the population under its control. Fatah allowed relatively free elections in the past, but not the last ones, being won by Hamas though not necessarily meaning the majority means a majority for a fundamentalist anti-zionist Palestine, but rejecting Fatah's corruption and authoritarian tendencies.

For the second, once the genie is out of the bottle, it's harder to control, though as I mentioned, the reign of terror Hamas imposes on the Gaza strip makes it easy to find some people unhappy with its regime.

Israeli voters have made choices yet but some devious politicians also derailed attempts at finding a settlement. Netanyahu for one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 11:20:59 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 10:42:17 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 10:29:02 AM
Is anyone arguing that Palestine has no right to exist, or that Israel is right to take ever more Palestinian land as settlements?

Anyone here or anyone generally?
Lots of people in the world have made that argument, including the last Israeli prime minister and the current one.

I meant anyone arguing here in this thread. Obviously, the Israelis busy grabbing land for settlements will argue they are right to do so.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 11:21:20 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 05, 2021, 10:53:36 AM
Alternative analogy suggestion:

US - Indigenous relations. At various points of history.

Alternative alternative analogy suggestion (Tyr-edition)

Norman - Saxon relations.  At various points of history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 10:53:58 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 10:20:36 AM
I didn't mean Hamas or Fatah. Neither are relevant at all. Palestine could be governed by baby-killing-ultra-Daesh or the super-sound-peace-and-love-great-at-economics-progressives or anything in between. It has absolutely zero bearing on Palestine's right to exist and the wrongness of Israeli settlements and the nation of Palestine steadily being whittled away.

It has a lot of bearing on what it is reasonable to expect Israel to do in the present.
To take your Germany example, the fact that the Third Reich existed did not mean Germany had to be wiped from the nations of the earth.
On the other hand, the Allied powers were not going guarantee to German territory under German control while the war was still going on and Hitler was in power.  They insisted on unconditional surrender as a prerequisite to peaceful settlement.
Yet Israeli settlement action is in Fatah territory.
The various Israeli infringements on Palestinian sovereignty are against both sides of Palestine.
And it bares mentioning that the modern world is a very different place to that of WW2. Collateral damage these days is not kosher. Sometimes unavoidable for sure. But Israel you get the impression really doesn't do as much as they could.

Overall I really don't think the existence of Hamas matters all that much at all for the actions that Israel draws criticism for. It certainly helps feed the Israeli internal politics that put in power politicians that support these actions. But often its a very indirect link rather than a logical response.

That cannot be right - the recent Israeli actions that have attracted international attention and criticism is the mini war they just had with Hamas in Gaza. How can that be rationally evaluated without reference to the existence, policies, and actions of Hamas?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 11:40:26 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 05, 2021, 10:54:14 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 09:54:50 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on July 05, 2021, 08:53:17 AM
Fatah is member of the Socialist International, so vaguely left-wing. The PLO being mostly Fatah these ways. Very far from Daesh. It's not even on the same page as islamo-nationalist Hamas, which keeps his attacks limited to Israel (and Palestine to suppress other factions). Hamas benefitted from Israeli maneuvers leaving it relatively unharmed to undermine the PLO. That has changed, of course.
Besides, their theocratic rule in Gaza makes easy for Israeli intelligence services to get intel on them, given all the disaffected people.

I find this line of argument - i.e. ascribing the genesis and growth of Hamas to Israeli policy - to be interesting on two counts.  On the one hand because (as pointed out by others in the thread) it denies the Palestinian people agency and a role in choosing and shaping their own political expression.  On the other because it ignores the opposite dynamic - that Hamas, its communications, and its tactics - have shaped Israeli politics and the choices that Israeli voters have made over the last few decades.

I mentioned this was mostly in the past, for the first count. As for Palestinian people not being asked what to do, be denied agency, that's not exactly new. From Arab states claiming to speak on their behalf, yet pursuing their own interests, sacrificing Palestinians if need be. Dates from 1947.

Also, Hamas does not leave much agency to the population under its control. Fatah allowed relatively free elections in the past, but not the last ones, being won by Hamas though not necessarily meaning the majority means a majority for a fundamentalist anti-zionist Palestine, but rejecting Fatah's corruption and authoritarian tendencies.

For the second, once the genie is out of the bottle, it's harder to control, though as I mentioned, the reign of terror Hamas imposes on the Gaza strip makes it easy to find some people unhappy with its regime.

Israeli voters have made choices yet but some devious politicians also derailed attempts at finding a settlement. Netanyahu for one.

The point that often gets overlooked, though, is that Israeli political choices are made against a backdrop of Palestinian responses.

There certainly was a considerable support for a settlement among the Israeli side (PM Rabin was assassinated for supporting this, at a rally to support the Oslo accords). Why did that tend to be supplanted by hard right wing populists like Bibi? In large part, because the Palestinians appeared to reject any Israeli proposals. That, and the reaction to Israeli unilateral pull out from Gaza. This demoralized and discredited those Israelis looking for a settlement - the feeling grew that a settlement simply was not possible.

Worse, people like Bibi argued it wasn't really necessary. They could just wall off those parts they want, and leave the rest. The cost of this policy is a punitive repression of the understandable Palistinian outrage. Being right wing populists, this naturally spilled over into an exacerbation of ethnic tensions generally - thus rioting between Jewish and Arab Israelis.

The latter really affected the public, and the recent political response in that respect is encouraging - while the New PM remains a hard rightist, he leads a small party in a coalition that includes leftists and even an Islamic party. The ultra orthodox Jewish parties are out. One can expect that this will lead to a significant improvement in the lot of Arab Israelis - indeed there are already some moves to thus effect (much as in the US with its Black population, Arab Israelis are theoretically equal but often subject to systemic discrimination, which was naturally worse under Bibi).

However, it appears certain this coalition will not engage in any searching reconstruction of the nation's relationship with non-Israeli Palestinians. They are simply too fragile for that, holding power by the narrowest of margins, and made up of partners that agree on nothing but that Bibi had to go.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 05, 2021, 11:52:28 AM
I'd settle for the US reallocating some of its foreign aid. Surely, there are more productive uses of those funds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 05, 2021, 12:00:19 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 10:53:58 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 05, 2021, 10:20:36 AM
I didn't mean Hamas or Fatah. Neither are relevant at all. Palestine could be governed by baby-killing-ultra-Daesh or the super-sound-peace-and-love-great-at-economics-progressives or anything in between. It has absolutely zero bearing on Palestine's right to exist and the wrongness of Israeli settlements and the nation of Palestine steadily being whittled away.

It has a lot of bearing on what it is reasonable to expect Israel to do in the present.
To take your Germany example, the fact that the Third Reich existed did not mean Germany had to be wiped from the nations of the earth.
On the other hand, the Allied powers were not going guarantee to German territory under German control while the war was still going on and Hitler was in power.  They insisted on unconditional surrender as a prerequisite to peaceful settlement.
Yet Israeli settlement action is in Fatah territory.
The various Israeli infringements on Palestinian sovereignty are against both sides of Palestine.
And it bares mentioning that the modern world is a very different place to that of WW2. Collateral damage these days is not kosher. Sometimes unavoidable for sure. But Israel you get the impression really doesn't do as much as they could.

Overall I really don't think the existence of Hamas matters all that much at all for the actions that Israel draws criticism for. It certainly helps feed the Israeli internal politics that put in power politicians that support these actions. But often its a very indirect link rather than a logical response.

That cannot be right - the recent Israeli actions that have attracted international attention and criticism is the mini war they just had with Hamas in Gaza. How can that be rationally evaluated without reference to the existence, policies, and actions of Hamas?

Even looking just at the most recent violence I am not sure that is right. Was it not Israeli seizures and throwing their weight around in Jerusalem that set it off?
It's also very believable that the coming Israeli election and the need for the government to show off and boost their numbers was a major factor rather than anything hamas did.
Regardless this action was interesting in it brought pretty widespread condemnation of Israel.
The overall backdrop against which this rose however was one where Israeli settlements and the border Walls, both Israeli actions, are the rallying cries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 12:03:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 05, 2021, 11:52:28 AM
I'd settle for the US reallocating some of its foreign aid. Surely, there are more productive uses of those funds.

The primary concern is not the funding provided to Israel - the US could remove that without too much impact on Israel (it is mainly a subsidy to US defence manufacturers). It would probably be a good idea to withdraw that, though politically difficult.

The primary concern, which I do not hear mentioned much, is that the aid is paralleled by aid provided to Egypt (they both originate in the Camp David Accords, by which the US brokered a deal which saw a permanent peace treaty between Egypt and Israel, with Israel giving the Sinai back to Egypt).

Egypt really needs that aid, it is in a terrible economic, political and military state. Withdrawing aid from Israel, but not from Egypt, may be an impossible sale, politically. Yet withdrawing aid from Egypt may exacerbate a disaster in the making - if Egypt falls apart, the current refugee crisis in Europe will become exponentially worse (in addition to being a horrendous humanitarian disaster in its own right).

That disaster may already be very likely. For example, Egypt depends entirely for its existence on the Nile, yet there is a plan underway by African nations upstream to divert the waters of the Nile:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/africa-in-focus/2020/08/05/the-controversy-over-the-grand-ethiopian-renaissance-dam/amp/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 05, 2021, 12:12:52 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 12:03:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 05, 2021, 11:52:28 AM
I'd settle for the US reallocating some of its foreign aid. Surely, there are more productive uses of those funds.

The primary concern is not the funding provided to Israel - the US could remove that without too much impact on Israel (it is mainly a subsidy to US defence manufacturers). It would probably be a good idea to withdraw that, though politically difficult.

The primary concern, which I do not hear mentioned much, is that the aid is paralleled by aid provided to Egypt (they both originate in the Camp David Accords, by which the US brokered a deal which saw a permanent peace treaty between Egypt and Israel, with Israel giving the Sinai back to Egypt).

Egypt really needs that aid, it is in a terrible economic, political and military state. Withdrawing aid from Israel, but not from Egypt, may be an impossible sale, politically. Yet withdrawing aid from Egypt may exacerbate a disaster in the making - if Egypt falls apart, the current refugee crisis in Europe will become exponentially worse (in addition to being a horrendous humanitarian disaster in its own right).

That disaster may already be very likely. For example, Egypt depends entirely for its existence on the Nile, yet there is a plan underway by African nations upstream to divert the waters of the Nile:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/africa-in-focus/2020/08/05/the-controversy-over-the-grand-ethiopian-renaissance-dam/amp/

This suggests we give double the aid to Israel as we do to Egypt.

https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 05, 2021, 12:17:26 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 11:21:20 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 05, 2021, 10:53:36 AM
Alternative analogy suggestion:

US - Indigenous relations. At various points of history.

Alternative alternative analogy suggestion (Tyr-edition)

Norman - Saxon relations.  At various points of history.

Better yet, Saxon-Briton relations.  At various points in history.

Or Iroquois League -  Souixan speakers in the Ohio Valley.  At various points in history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 12:23:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 05, 2021, 12:12:52 PM

This suggests we give double the aid to Israel as we do to Egypt.

https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd

Yes, and if you look at the details, you will see that the lions share of that "aid" to Israel is defence allocations, for the purchase of US defence supplies. See the "top activities" in your link.

This money goes from the US taxpayer straight to US defence industries. Removal of that stuff from Israel would hurt (a bit), but would hardly be an existential threat to them. It probably would be a good idea for the US to remove it. Israel has a pretty developed economy, its enemies are no longer as significant an existential threat.

On the Egyptian side, the story is very different. They have lots of enemies who pose an existential threat (such as, cutting off the water they depend on). Their economy is a shambles. They need the support far more than Israel does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 05, 2021, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 11:21:20 AM
Norman - Saxon relations.  At various points of history.

The nature of medieval relations may provide one with some interesting thought experiments - though what they would be I am not sure.

However, the dynamics of a settler state, with considerable difference in power, and eliciting different levels of sympathy, in the modern era, strikes me as a more useful analogy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 12:28:59 PM
Being that many of the arguments for legitimacy in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict go back a couple thousand years, I presumed I had some temporal leeway.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 12:29:52 PM
The right to self-determination is not absolute and self-determination can be taken away.  Whether or not a country should have self-determination should be informed by the laws and government of the country.  This is by no means controversial.  Germany lost their right to self-determination during WW2.  The Confederacy never had the right to self-determination.  In both cases the lose of sovereignty was based on the behavior of the state.



*Does any of that make sense?  I feel lightheaded and I'm having a hard time concentrating.  Stupid antianxiety medications.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 12:32:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 05, 2021, 12:29:52 PM
The right to self-determination is not absolute and self-determination can be taken away.  Whether or not a country should have self-determination should be informed by the laws and government of the country.  This is by no means controversial.  Germany lost their right to self-determination during WW2.  The Confederacy never had the right to self-determination. In both cases the lose of sovereignty was based on the behavior of the state.



*Does any of that make sense?  I feel lightheaded and I'm having a hard time concentrating.  Stupid antianxiety medications.

They might have had...if they won on the battlefield.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 05, 2021, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 11:21:20 AM
Norman - Saxon relations.  At various points of history.

The nature of medieval relations may provide one with some interesting thought experiments - though what they would be I am not sure.

However, the dynamics of a settler state, with considerable difference in power, and eliciting different levels of sympathy, in the modern era, strikes me as a more useful analogy.

A better analogy would be any one of a number of ethno-nationalist movements extant at the exact same time as the formation of the State of Israel.

For example - the creation of India and Pakistan out of the British imperial holdings in India. That resulted in much the same situation as Israel and the Arab nations - a population transfer in which large numbers of Arabs fled or were forced from what is now Israel, and large numbers of Jews fled or were forced from what is now the Arab nations (plus Persian Iran). In fact, nearly equal numbers went both ways.

This Mizrai Jewish population often gets ignored in the "settler state" narrative, which is, quite literally, a half-truth: even assuming it makes sense to claim all Ashkenazim in Israel are "settlers", local middle eastern Jews (Mizrahim) make up half the Jewish population of Israel.

A big difference of course is in scale. India/Pakistan was orders of magnitude larger, and considerably more violent (something like a million people are said to have died in the process).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 01:36:03 PM
For better or worse US aid decisions are based more on foreign policy, defense concerns, and industrial policy than humanitarian concerns.

For example, the Iron Dome missile defense system is actually a joint US-Israeli project.  Parts of the system are built and procured in the US; the Israelis are obligated to kick back their own tech and internal evaluations of system performance.  From the US POV, Israel is a useful testing ground for military technologies, hardware, and doctrine.  No big surprise then that another big chunk of aid has been used recently to facilitate Israeli acquisition of the f-35.  The US figures those planes have a decent likelihood to see action in Israel and it certainly wouldn't hurt export sales if Israeli pilots managed to use the planes to useful effect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 05, 2021, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 05, 2021, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 05, 2021, 11:21:20 AM
Norman - Saxon relations.  At various points of history.

The nature of medieval relations may provide one with some interesting thought experiments - though what they would be I am not sure.

However, the dynamics of a settler state, with considerable difference in power, and eliciting different levels of sympathy, in the modern era, strikes me as a more useful analogy.

A better analogy would be any one of a number of ethno-nationalist movements extant at the exact same time as the formation of the State of Israel.

For example - the creation of India and Pakistan out of the British imperial holdings in India. That resulted in much the same situation as Israel and the Arab nations - a population transfer in which large numbers of Arabs fled or were forced from what is now Israel, and large numbers of Jews fled or were forced from what is now the Arab nations (plus Persian Iran). In fact, nearly equal numbers went both ways.

This Mizrai Jewish population often gets ignored in the "settler state" narrative, which is, quite literally, a half-truth: even assuming it makes sense to claim all Ashkenazim in Israel are "settlers", local middle eastern Jews (Mizrahim) make up half the Jewish population of Israel.

A big difference of course is in scale. India/Pakistan was orders of magnitude larger, and considerably more violent (something like a million people are said to have died in the process).

A modern analogy is perhaps the breakup of Yugoslavia.  The Serbs tried but failed to maintain control over the borders they asserted were theirs by right.  The big difference was the US did not back that claim and instead created the Dayton Accords. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 05, 2021, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 12:23:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 05, 2021, 12:12:52 PM

This suggests we give double the aid to Israel as we do to Egypt.

https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd

Yes, and if you look at the details, you will see that the lions share of that "aid" to Israel is defence allocations, for the purchase of US defence supplies. See the "top activities" in your link.

This money goes from the US taxpayer straight to US defence industries. Removal of that stuff from Israel would hurt (a bit), but would hardly be an existential threat to them. It probably would be a good idea for the US to remove it. Israel has a pretty developed economy, its enemies are no longer as significant an existential threat.

On the Egyptian side, the story is very different. They have lots of enemies who pose an existential threat (such as, cutting off the water they depend on). Their economy is a shambles. They need the support far more than Israel does.

Cool so we agreed it'd be great if the US could dial down the level of aid it provides Israel.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 02:58:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 05, 2021, 02:13:13 PM

Cool so we agreed it'd be great if the US could dial down the level of aid it provides Israel.

Yes. Though I don't think it will be easy to do, as the "aid" mostly favours US defence industries, supporters of the aid are politically entrenched, and the knock-on effects (for example, cessation of aid to Egypt) are likely to be dangerously.

I think the US is likely to be less engaged in the ME in the future. They are already seen as not particularly reliable (witness the recent shameful treatment of the Kurds, for example). This may in part explain why certain gulf Arab states are anxious to make a deal with Israel - they are all frightened of Iran and they know Israel isn't likely to just turn its back on the region if a new President feels the urge to do so. Cessation of aid goes along with a strategy of US disengagement, which may (ironically enough) enhance Israel's status among Iran's (many) enemies. Plus, Turkey is also getting much more assertive (and is also widely feared).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 05, 2021, 02:13:13 PM
Cool so we agreed it'd be great if the US could dial down the level of aid it provides Israel.

What we agree on here sadly has little impact on the world.

Most foreign aid programs are wildly unpopular and Americans (when interviewed on the question) regularly overrate the amount of foreign aid the US gives by a multiple of 10-100. Compared to its resources and outside need, the US is very stingy with foreign aid.

Aid to Israel, however, is the exception as the Israelis have convinced enough Americans that they are fighting RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM and are doing so OVER THERE.  No one worries about $ signs when RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM is in play.   Of course, the Israelis do fight terrorists from time-to-time, some of whom are radical and/or Islamic; they just aren't really the same ones threatening America.  But those are details.

In the absence of significant domestic political pushback, the aid will keep flowing because the Iron Triangle is still alive and well in Washington and the policy works for all the legs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 05, 2021, 03:40:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
A better analogy would be any one of a number of ethno-nationalist movements extant at the exact same time as the formation of the State of Israel.

It's an interesting analogy. I am not sure it's a better one. The formation of India and Pakistan indeed led to the creation of two states. It was a bloody affair, to be sure - and tensions continue to run high. Much like, say, the invasion of Northern Cyprus.

My point is not that we should use historical analogies to argue the legitimacy of Israel itself, or to understand the origins of the tensions, but rather to re-frame the narrative a bit.

The issue about Israel is that it currently occupies territories, colonizes them, regulates the movement of the occupied population and exerts considerable power over whatever authority is delegated to Gaza and the West Bank. It is an occupation. And it comes with colonization. A movement that began with the creation of Israel, but - and this is the key - that continues, and even has increased in recent years. Regardless of all of the historical precedents, that is the current situation now - and it elicits a lot of the same sort of rhetoric that was produced about the frontier in the US - about the untrustworthy character of Indigenous nations, about the violence on the frontier and inflicted upon settlers. About the right of the US to exist, and the necessity to contain the others. And it clearly mobilized a sense of sympathy for the US against the barbarians on the other side - which would perhaps help reframe the issue beyond the shrugging that may be produced for more distant analogies like Cyprus, or Kashmere, or the Greek Islands, or German Sudeten, or even the ongoing colonization of Tibet.

We can certainly find a ton of excuses for Israel, but at the end of the day, they are occupying land, they are colonizing land, they are governing a population that will never be counted as its own citizens. For how long still? The population transfers of the past don't provide good analogy because that population transfer hasn't happened yet. The Palestinians live in refugee camps and reservations. We may decry the Arab states all we want - it just hasn't happened yet, and Israel hasn't annexed the territories. So we are left with a situation much more akin to those of settler-colonialist states.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 05, 2021, 03:40:49 PM
A movement that began with the creation of Israel

Not really.
1947-48 is really more like the India-Pakistan situation and it did lead to the formation of two states. It's just that the putative Palestinian state was swallowed up the Hashemite successor state monarchy.

The occupation/colonization process doesn't get underway until 1967 but even then it proceeds in gradual phases.  At first Israel committed itself to withdrawing from the occupation and refrained from settlements except for designated exceptions in East Jeruslem, Gush Etzion and Golan in each case for which some justification was proposed. Whether one agrees with the justice of the exceptions the point was that the government believed such justification was needed because it accepted the general principle against settling the occupied territories.

Over time the future withdrawal became more and more speculative and more and more cracks began to appear in that principle.  When Likud came to power in 1977, the rhetoric shifted towards claims over rights to settle, and at that point salami slicing pieces of territory runs pretty continuously, with only occasional halts and suspensions.

The numbers show this - by 1977 West bank settlement populations were still negligible - but hit 5 figures by the late 70s then 100K by the 90s, 2000K by the oughts, 300K by 2010 and over 400K now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 05:07:57 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 05, 2021, 03:40:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 05, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
A better analogy would be any one of a number of ethno-nationalist movements extant at the exact same time as the formation of the State of Israel.

It's an interesting analogy. I am not sure it's a better one. The formation of India and Pakistan indeed led to the creation of two states. It was a bloody affair, to be sure - and tensions continue to run high. Much like, say, the invasion of Northern Cyprus.

My point is not that we should use historical analogies to argue the legitimacy of Israel itself, or to understand the origins of the tensions, but rather to re-frame the narrative a bit.

The issue about Israel is that it currently occupies territories, colonizes them, regulates the movement of the occupied population and exerts considerable power over whatever authority is delegated to Gaza and the West Bank. It is an occupation. And it comes with colonization. A movement that began with the creation of Israel, but - and this is the key - that continues, and even has increased in recent years. Regardless of all of the historical precedents, that is the current situation now - and it elicits a lot of the same sort of rhetoric that was produced about the frontier in the US - about the untrustworthy character of Indigenous nations, about the violence on the frontier and inflicted upon settlers. About the right of the US to exist, and the necessity to contain the others. And it clearly mobilized a sense of sympathy for the US against the barbarians on the other side - which would perhaps help reframe the issue beyond the shrugging that may be produced for more distant analogies like Cyprus, or Kashmere, or the Greek Islands, or German Sudeten, or even the ongoing colonization of Tibet.

We can certainly find a ton of excuses for Israel, but at the end of the day, they are occupying land, they are colonizing land, they are governing a population that will never be counted as its own citizens. For how long still? The population transfers of the past don't provide good analogy because that population transfer hasn't happened yet. The Palestinians live in refugee camps and reservations. We may decry the Arab states all we want - it just hasn't happened yet, and Israel hasn't annexed the territories. So we are left with a situation much more akin to those of settler-colonialist states.

I don't think thinking in terms of "reframing the narrative" on the one hand, or "excuses" on the other, is terribly helpful. Both appear to me to lead to distortions of history, only in opposite directions.

For example - the idea that the present-day settlements are merely an extension of the process of nation-building that started with the creation of Israel in 1948 is such a distortion (and, note, both sides indulge in it - the one side to delegitimize Israel ab initio, the other to justify the settlement process).

The population transfer indeed occurred, in the years following 1948. The difference lies in the fate of the transferred populations. Those Mizrai Jews transferred into Israel were (with a great deal of ethnic tension, as at least at first the two main factions of Jews did not get on) accepted into the Israeli population. They are no longer "displaced" and have no wish to return to, say, Syria or Yemen, where they came from (and if they did, they would not be safe). The Palistinians "transferred" in the other direction were in large part not accepted into the general Arab population. Indeed, this created lots of problems - see for example the "Black September" incident in Jordan (in which some thousands of Palestinians were massacred in a failed uprising, and the PLO exiled to Lebanon).

To use the India/Pakistan analogy, it is as if the nation of India kept Hindus who fled from what is now Pakistan in refugee camps up to the present day.

The israelis are not "occupying land" within their own borders. They are "occupying land" they seized in the 1967 war - land that originally belonged to Jordan. They had also occupied land that belonged to Egypt, but returned the bulk of it in a peace deal. The intent all along was to return the rest, again in return for a peace deal.

The problems began with the apparent impossibility of arranging such a peace deal. The deadlock discredited those in Israel heavily committed to such a deal. It emboldened the reactionaries who wanted to carve off bits of those lands for themselves.

In short, looking at the creation of Israel in the same light as the present day settlements on the West Bank is not a good way of "reframing the narrative", as it does considerable violence to history. The two are quite different creatures.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 05, 2021, 05:49:02 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 05, 2021, 02:13:13 PM
Cool so we agreed it'd be great if the US could dial down the level of aid it provides Israel.

What we agree on here sadly has little impact on the world.

Most foreign aid programs are wildly unpopular and Americans (when interviewed on the question) regularly overrate the amount of foreign aid the US gives by a multiple of 10-100. Compared to its resources and outside need, the US is very stingy with foreign aid.

Aid to Israel, however, is the exception as the Israelis have convinced enough Americans that they are fighting RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM and are doing so OVER THERE.  No one worries about $ signs when RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM is in play.   Of course, the Israelis do fight terrorists from time-to-time, some of whom are radical and/or Islamic; they just aren't really the same ones threatening America.  But those are details.

In the absence of significant domestic political pushback, the aid will keep flowing because the Iron Triangle is still alive and well in Washington and the policy works for all the legs.

So like everything we say on Languish? :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 05, 2021, 09:52:55 PM
Mom: Johnny, why are you sitting on your little brother!!! You are hurting him!
Johnny: Yeah, but the little shit keeps kicking me! Everytime I let him go, he kicks me again!
Mom: Billy, is that true???
Billy: Damn right! I hate him!
Johnny: See!
Mom: Let him go!
Johnny: If I do, he is going to kick me again!
Mom: No he won't! He is a nice kid!
Johnny: I think he is going to kick me again!
Mom: Billy, if Johnny let you go are you going to kick him again? You wouldn't do that would you?
Billy: Damn right I will! If I could, I would do a lot worse!
Johnny: Yeah, I am not letting him up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 05, 2021, 11:12:44 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/CMcHR4fB/smj.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 05, 2021, 11:21:57 PM
SEE HOW I AM CENSORED! YOU CANNOT SEE MY BLOCKED WORDS!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 05, 2021, 11:52:21 PM
Now there's an outdated term.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2021, 01:58:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 05, 2021, 11:52:21 PM
Now there's an outdated term.

If you mean "silent majority", it was used more than a few times by Trump and his allies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2021, 02:37:41 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2021, 01:58:00 AM
If you mean "silent majority", it was used more than a few times by Trump and his allies.

That may well be, but now they're neither silent nor a majority.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 06, 2021, 02:55:13 AM
Vocal minority is a far more accurate descriptor
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2021, 03:00:40 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2021, 02:37:41 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2021, 01:58:00 AM
If you mean "silent majority", it was used more than a few times by Trump and his allies.

That may well be, but now they're neither silent nor a majority.

Isn't the phrase just something useful to create an 'enemy' out of the opposition as well as highlight they've little real support? Seems appropriate for those Trumpland supporters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2021, 03:03:11 AM
Actually a variation just appeared in press in England:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-keeping-covid-restrictions-will-only-delay-wave

QuoteCalum Semple, professor of child health and outbreak medicine at the University of Liverpool, and a member of the Sage committee of experts, said there are many measures people can take to reduce the risk of spreading the virus once restrictions have been lifted.

"If we've come through 18 months of Covid and people are still not persuaded to change their behaviour, they are probably a group that are in denial for their own reasons and it may be very hard to modify their behaviour. It'll be for the silent and sensible majority to take the lead," he said.

"If you can work from home, I don't know why employers shouldn't encourage it, and I'd have no prob[lem] if a particular organisation said they'd like you to wear a face covering in their establishment. We should respect that and they should have the right to turn you away," he added.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2021, 03:13:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2021, 03:00:40 AM
Isn't the phrase just something useful to create an 'enemy' out of the opposition as well as highlight they've little real support? Seems appropriate for those Trumpland supporters.

I think Nixon coined the expression to point out that most Americans supported Vietnam (I'm not really sure if this is true but I think it is) and that they weren't very noisy about it.

That's the opposite of what Trumptards are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2021, 03:19:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2021, 03:13:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2021, 03:00:40 AM
Isn't the phrase just something useful to create an 'enemy' out of the opposition as well as highlight they've little real support? Seems appropriate for those Trumpland supporters.

I think Nixon coined the expression to point out that most Americans supported Vietnam (I'm not really sure if this is true but I think it is) and that they weren't very noisy about it.

That's the opposite of what Trumptards are.

That's one interpretation - at least the most surface level one.

Also, are you feigning surprise that people might have changed how they used a term after 50 years?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 06, 2021, 03:22:18 AM
I think silent majority is a thing, just like fake news is a thing.  Both these phrases, along with many others, are just misused by the right wing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2021, 03:28:23 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2021, 03:22:18 AM
I think silent majority is a thing, just like fake news is a thing.  Both these phrases, along with many others, are just misused by the right wing.

It does seem to be convenient to claim one is speaking for the majority who are not making their wishes known.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2021, 03:32:37 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2021, 03:19:28 AM

That's one interpretation - at least the most surface level one.

Also, are you feigning surprise that people might have changed how they used a term after 50 years?

I'm not feigning surprise at anything. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 06, 2021, 06:22:05 AM
A selection of news/commentary sites my sisters have shared articles from over the last two weeks.

https://www.dailywire.com/
https://www.theblaze.com/
https://townhall.com/
https://www.bizpacreview.com/
https://clarion.causeaction.com/
https://djhjmedia.com/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 06, 2021, 06:55:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2021, 03:28:23 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2021, 03:22:18 AM
I think silent majority is a thing, just like fake news is a thing.  Both these phrases, along with many others, are just misused by the right wing.

It does seem to be convenient to claim one is speaking for the majority who are not making their wishes known.
The more useful a concept is, the more convenient it is to hijack it.  What's the point of hijacking something useless? 

Silent majorities are a thing in politics, and many have grossly misstepped because they failed to realize the existence of one.  Sometimes the outspoken minority gets into an echo chamber and forgets about the outside world, sometimes the silent majority is encouraged to self-censor, and sometimes the silent majority is simply apathetic but still prone to think in certain ways.  In all the cases, they're still a political force, and they still speak through a ballot box.  Liberals in particular tend to grossly overestimate the level of support for their various culture war issues within the society, and that often ends badly for them and their allies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2021, 07:46:00 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2021, 06:55:49 AM
The more useful a concept is, the more convenient it is to hijack it.  What's the point of hijacking something useless?

I'm not sure that utility for hijacked purposes is at all correlated with utility under the original meaning.  Look at something like 'critical race theory'. Not something with a great amount of value or cachet outside a very narrow population that now has had more ink spilled on it regarding its hijacked purposs. 

Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2021, 06:55:49 AM
Silent majorities are a thing in politics, and many have grossly misstepped because they failed to realize the existence of one.  Sometimes the outspoken minority gets into an echo chamber and forgets about the outside world, sometimes the silent majority is encouraged to self-censor, and sometimes the silent majority is simply apathetic but still prone to think in certain ways.  In all the cases, they're still a political force, and they still speak through a ballot box.  Liberals in particular tend to grossly overestimate the level of support for their various culture war issues within the society, and that often ends badly for them and their allies.

I would agree with this definition from M-W, "the largest part of a country's population that consists of people who are not actively involved in politics and do not express their political opinions publicly" but I also struggle to feel that Nixon was using/re-coining the term with such a neutral meaning.

In any event, unless something detectable via polling or intentionally involving people not engaging in group think, it feels like a concept that is hard to have tangible benefits by virtue of not being able to detect it. Whereas immediately able to be used as a cudgel to say that the opposition is out of touch with whatever policy you dislike.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2021, 07:46:43 AM
On a different note, do you sleep, DG? I see you replied to me at what was 3:30am your time and then 8am? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 06, 2021, 07:53:39 AM
It's kinda creepy/stalkerlike to see someone calling out a poster on their posting timestamps.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2021, 07:54:43 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 06, 2021, 07:53:39 AM
It's kinda creepy/stalkerlike to see someone calling out a poster on their posting timestamps.

Not really, I mean it as a personal aside nothing to do with the conversation. I was also aware of it as I'd been posting in my morning before work and was surprised to already here from DG around my lunch time. I'm not sure how it is stalker like to notice that - it isn't like I did research on his posting habits over time. :huh:

But whatevs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 06, 2021, 07:54:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2021, 07:46:43 AM
On a different note, do you sleep, DG? I see you replied to me at what was 3:30am your time and then 8am? :unsure:
I usually do, but I woke up in the middle of the night last night, so I figured I may as well do something useful while trying to fall asleep again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 06, 2021, 07:55:49 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2021, 07:54:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2021, 07:46:43 AM
On a different note, do you sleep, DG? I see you replied to me at what was 3:30am your time and then 8am? :unsure:
I usually do, but I woke up in the middle of the night last night, so I figured I may as well do something useful while trying to fall asleep again.

Got it. Useful Languishing. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 06, 2021, 08:07:30 AM
He has to sleep in the sacred soil of his homeland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 06, 2021, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 06, 2021, 07:54:43 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 06, 2021, 07:53:39 AM
It's kinda creepy/stalkerlike to see someone calling out a poster on their posting timestamps.

Not really, I mean it as a personal aside nothing to do with the conversation. I was also aware of it as I'd been posting in my morning before work and was surprised to already here from DG around my lunch time. I'm not sure how it is stalker like to notice that - it isn't like I did research on his posting habits over time. :huh:

But whatevs.

I've been watching a lot of English murder mysteries (my wife just loves them!) and the first thing that springs to mind is a series of random, apparently unconnected murders, where the only thing the victims had in common is membership in an ancient bulletin board website created to argue about current events by fans of a certain video game ... 😄

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 06, 2021, 11:41:33 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/213649489_10218956946770713_7508260602069637482_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=DCwLQnEM1_MAX9awfHY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ffdee0b739fa390756591d0306b1a2cf&oe=60EAFBBB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 07, 2021, 12:04:54 AM
There's no Chinese person in America dumb enough to write that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 07, 2021, 01:15:27 AM
That is astonishing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 07, 2021, 02:38:14 AM
...that reads like Chinese people SHOULD be doing those things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 08, 2021, 06:11:02 AM
(https://scontent-muc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/213885552_3097035010514393_1086294823208084518_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=9FFT1GHjtj0AX9aRE-b&_nc_ht=scontent-muc2-1.xx&oh=b98ad75df12281834305188404aead87&oe=60EC5479)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 08, 2021, 06:44:36 AM
You stop lying about your name, "Buck Sexton".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2021, 07:29:31 AM
Supposedly he is "conservatism's most eligible bachelor" which I think translates as "in the closet"

I have to admit I was surprised to learn that.  I had assumed that the cultural Marxists seeking to destabilize America from the inside always told the truth.  I thought it was the economic Marxists who blatantly lied.  Perhaps I confused the two?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 08, 2021, 07:45:24 AM
You should have asked them the one question that would have allowed you to open the right door.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 08, 2021, 07:48:08 AM
WTF is a cultural marxist?

And I like that they are defined as "willing to lie" to evade detection. What a deliciously self fulfilling definition. Big Brother would be proud.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 08, 2021, 07:54:35 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 08, 2021, 07:48:08 AM
WTF is a cultural marxist?

And I like that they are defined as "willing to lie" to evade detection. What a deliciously self fulfilling definition. Big Brother would be proud.

Old far right conspiracy theory.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism
It was briefly popular a year or two back but I haven't seen it much lately. The puppet masters I guess have realised its too obviously nazi so best to stick to whinging about critical race theory et al.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 08, 2021, 07:54:53 AM
It's a stupid term.  I assume the intended meaning is to describe people aggressively seeking to remake the cultural norms, much like vanilla Marxists sought to remake economic norms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2021, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 08, 2021, 07:48:08 AM
WTF is a cultural marxist?

Someone who wears a beard, hangs out in libraries, and writes newspaper articles about textile factories.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 08, 2021, 08:12:23 AM
That's a cultured Marxist. Cultural Marxist wants to seize the means of artistic production.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 08, 2021, 10:08:11 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 08, 2021, 07:48:08 AM
WTF is a cultural marxist?

And I like that they are defined as "willing to lie" to evade detection. What a deliciously self fulfilling definition. Big Brother would be proud.

A Jew.  Old Nazi term.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 08, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 08, 2021, 08:12:23 AM
That's a cultured Marxist. Cultural Marxist wants to seize the means of artistic production.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 08, 2021, 11:31:33 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 08, 2021, 07:48:08 AM
WTF is a cultural marxist?

Rootless cosmopolitans. You know... Jews. And everyone who Nazis sees as allied with "international Jewry" in the culture wars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 08, 2021, 03:44:01 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 08, 2021, 11:31:33 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 08, 2021, 07:48:08 AM
WTF is a cultural marxist?

Rootless cosmopolitans. You know... Jews. And everyone who Nazis sees as allied with "international Jewry" in the culture wars.


I did a spit take when I heard Steven Miller go on about "cosmopolitans."  You wouldn't be able to get away with this 30 years ago.  You'd have an entire regiments coming out of retirement homes to kick the shit out you.  Now most of those people are dead and we are seeing things like the blood libel return.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2021, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 08, 2021, 03:44:01 PM
I did a spit take when I heard Steven Miller go on about "cosmopolitans."  You wouldn't be able to get away with this 30 years ago.  You'd have an entire regiments coming out of retirement homes to kick the shit out you.  Now most of those people are dead and we are seeing things like the blood libel return.

The lack of historical memory doesn't surprise me - Donald Trump named his political movement after America's last major Nazi-influenced political organization and no one blinked an eye.

What surprised me is the level of Jewish support for a politics that so openly trades on anti-semitic tropes and panders those views. So the US recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital.  Whoop-de-do.  That and $2 gets you a subway ride.  I don't live in Israel, I live here.  I care a lot more about Nazi crap going down in America than where in Israel the consular staff is stamping US visa requests.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 08, 2021, 04:28:03 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2021, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 08, 2021, 03:44:01 PM
I did a spit take when I heard Steven Miller go on about "cosmopolitans."  You wouldn't be able to get away with this 30 years ago.  You'd have an entire regiments coming out of retirement homes to kick the shit out you.  Now most of those people are dead and we are seeing things like the blood libel return.

The lack of historical memory doesn't surprise me - Donald Trump named his political movement after America's last major Nazi-influenced political organization and no one blinked an eye.

What surprised me is the level of Jewish support for a politics that so openly trades on anti-semitic tropes and panders those views. So the US recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital.  Whoop-de-do.  That and $2 gets you a subway ride.  I don't live in Israel, I live here.  I care a lot more about Nazi crap going down in America than where in Israel the consular staff is stamping US visa requests.

Most Jews continue to be Democrat. There is a minority of Jews who reliably vote GOP - the Orthodox, who (apparently) are increasingly likely to buy into right wing conspiracy thinking, and vote for Trump - like the Evangelicals. The Haredi types are most solid for the GOP, with the modern Orthodox split.

https://religionnews.com/2021/02/19/the-political-chasm-between-left-and-right-is-tearing-orthodox-jews-apart/

Likely, this means that it is the GOP's catering to hardline religious nut jobs has worked in gaining their support - also, these are the most likely to believe 'alternative facts'. The Haridi Jews, who overwhelmingly support Trump, commonly hate Zionism (for being blasphemous), so symbolic gestures of support for Israel won't be the reason for their support.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 08, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
We live in the age of optics, where every issue is a PR issue, and where the connections of symbols to both the ideas and the material world, is increasingly tenuous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 08, 2021, 08:21:34 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 08, 2021, 04:04:43 PM

The lack of historical memory doesn't surprise me - Donald Trump named his political movement after America's last major Nazi-influenced political organization and no one blinked an eye.



Oh, some people noticed.  A large number of "very fine people", have realized that their ideas have traction these days.  All they must do is change the phrasing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 09, 2021, 12:13:08 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/204213915_207083411279234_2237562499357414542_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nzsegZ3yAJ4AX9xEoi2&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=42cbc8379450c8388104d81442d2099f&oe=60ED0AC2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 09, 2021, 01:20:18 AM
4/10
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on July 09, 2021, 03:52:27 AM
From the sole Trump voter I have in my FB:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5yecwIXoAgvq2C?format=jpg&name=large)

I will go out of a limb and say that Ben Garrisson hasn't read Don Quixote...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 09, 2021, 04:09:17 AM
Not in the original Klingon at least.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 09, 2021, 05:06:38 AM
Quote from: celedhring on July 09, 2021, 03:52:27 AMI will go out of a limb and say that Ben Garrisson hasn't read Don Quixote...

His defence seems to be "I did read the book but I'm very smart, you know".

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5z7ULjWEAYZXFr?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 09, 2021, 05:17:18 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: celedhring on July 09, 2021, 05:21:01 AM
We're talking about a man that is so confident about his rethoric ability that he has to spell out in text the meaning of his own metaphors. (i.e. "lawsuit").
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 09, 2021, 05:34:09 AM
What a guy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 09, 2021, 05:47:40 AM
He really likes the book, I think.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5yhwL1WQAQEVwl.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5ymMeBWYAMH8HD.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on July 09, 2021, 08:47:05 AM
QuoteThe Meaning Of The Native Graves
They're good, actually.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-meaning-of-the-native-graves/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 10:20:42 AM
Quote from: ulmont on July 09, 2021, 08:47:05 AM
QuoteThe Meaning Of The Native Graves
They're good, actually.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-meaning-of-the-native-graves/

Evil, just plain evil

QuoteThis is not to discount the deaths of children altogether. Of course, it would have been better if each and every one of the First Nations tykes Christianized by the union of Church and state had lived a long and happy life. But it is absolutely to discount the blame fixed on the Church by vicious opportunists.

QuoteLikewise, the certain fact that souls were saved by the missionaries, the enduring belief of Christians that the Gospel is true and must be spread, is paramount; everything else is secondary.

I stopped reading at this point.

QuoteWhatever good was present at the Ossossané ossuary—where those who had not yet encountered the fullness of Truth honored their dead as best they knew how—is increased a thousandfold in the cemeteries of the residential schools, where baptized Christians were given Christian burials. Whatever natural good was present in the piety and community of the pagan past is an infinitesimal fraction of the grace rendered unto those pagans' descendants who have been received into the Church of Christ. Whatever sacrifices were exacted in pursuit of that grace—the suffocation of a noble pagan culture; an increase in disease and bodily death due to government negligence; even the sundering of natural families—is worth it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 10:29:04 AM
Makes perfect sense and is completely rational once you accept the foundational premise of the faith.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 10:30:55 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 09, 2021, 12:13:08 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/204213915_207083411279234_2237562499357414542_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nzsegZ3yAJ4AX9xEoi2&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=42cbc8379450c8388104d81442d2099f&oe=60ED0AC2)

So Socialism is where a person owns something and gets to do with their property what they want with it, regardless of what I think about it? I swear I don't understand what Socialism is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 10:37:36 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 10:29:04 AM
Makes perfect sense and is completely rational once you accept the foundational premise of the faith.

I think a distinction needs to be drawn between the toxic brand of right wing Catholicism practiced by conservatives in North America and the faith as a whole.

There are a number of Catholics who would vehemently disagree with the utter nonsense in that article.  Including Catholic Bishops here in Canada:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/archbishop-apology-residential-schools-1.6073733

Quote"I extend my sincere apology for the involvement of the Catholic Church in the residential school system and I pray for healing as the church in Canada walks the path of reconciliation with the Indigenous people in our community,"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-archbishop-apologizes-indigenous-community-1.6051150


Quote"I am writing to express my deep apology and profound condolences to the families and communities that have been devastated by this horrific news," Miller said in a statement Wednesday.

"Each time new evidence of a tragedy is revealed, or another victim comes forward, countless wounds are reopened, and I know that you experience renewed suffering."

In the statement, Miller said he reflected on an earlier apology he made in 2013 before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which he described as "words to which I remain committed and accountable."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on July 09, 2021, 10:52:59 AM
It is as holy as the Franks marching the defeated army into a river where they could be baptized, then killed on the other side so they wouldn't backslide.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: PDH on July 09, 2021, 10:52:59 AM
It is as holy as the Franks marching the defeated army into a river where they could be baptized, then killed on the other side so they wouldn't backslide.

Well I mean best to end it when your soul is clean and pure. Somewhere in Heaven those Saxons are eternally grateful.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: PDH on July 09, 2021, 10:52:59 AM
It is as holy as the Franks marching the defeated army into a river where they could be baptized, then killed on the other side so they wouldn't backslide.

Well I mean best to end it when your soul is clean and pure. Somewhere in Heaven those Saxons are eternally grateful.

"Kill them all, God will know his own." or something.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
Quote from: ulmont on July 09, 2021, 08:47:05 AM
QuoteThe Meaning Of The Native Graves
They're good, actually.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-meaning-of-the-native-graves/

QuoteIt is very important to note that the entire story is made up. First, we have always known that many children died in the residential schools, which were active through the 19th and 20th centuries. Child mortality was relatively high during that period to begin with; Indian mortality overall was astronomically high; and the Church-run schools for native children were systemically underfunded by the government, resulting in subpar facilities and inadequate medical care. Second, the sites almost certainly include the graves of Christian adults from the neighboring communities, as Chief Cadmus Delorme of the Cowessess First Nation admitted with respect to the Marieval Indian Residential School, where an estimated 751 burials were detected by radar last month. The "mass graves" of public hysteria are, in fact, the ordered and intentional burial sites of people we always knew were dead, and who died of more or less natural causes. In more literate times, we might have called that a cemetery.

The author is part right, part wrong here.

First, the "we have always known" - yes, we in terms of historians, or people who are educated on the topic.  In fact yesterday I went back and looked at the final report of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples (issued in 1996) - and yes it talks about the large number of deaths that happened at residential schools.  As well the final report on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission mentioned it at length.  But as the public outrage has shown - the public at large was unaware.  This is a failing of education.

Indian mortality overall was extremely high.  This also is true - but to what extent was that the fault of the Canadian government?

Schools were underfunded - yes.  But again if you go back in the historical record the government was repeatedly called out for this underfunding.

That these were cemeteries, not mass graves.  Also true.  But also that the government and churches made zero effort to maintain those cemeteries (the graves of which were adorned with simple wooden crosses) so the locations were very quickly lost.


And the whole notion that the death of children is okay because at least they were saved - I don't think any serious Christian would endorse that position.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 11:12:39 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: PDH on July 09, 2021, 10:52:59 AM
It is as holy as the Franks marching the defeated army into a river where they could be baptized, then killed on the other side so they wouldn't backslide.

Well I mean best to end it when your soul is clean and pure. Somewhere in Heaven those Saxons are eternally grateful.

"Kill them all, God will know his own." or something.

Well that is different. All those Catholics killed in the Albigensian Crusade hadn't just had the magic spell sacrament of baptism. They all had lots of purgatory ahead of them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 11:14:20 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
And the whole notion that the death of children is okay because at least they were saved - I don't think any serious Christian would endorse that position.

One wouldn't think so...but yet they seem to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 11:34:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
And the whole notion that the death of children is okay because at least they were saved - I don't think any serious Christian would endorse that position.

That is not the authors claim though.

He is not saying it was ok, he is saying that it was better then the alternative.

That a system that resulted in a lot of native people dying after being saved is better than a system that perhaps allowed them to live longer, but die in a state of not being saved.

Obviously a system that lets them live a long, healthy life while also being saved is superior to either.

But that was not one of the options, so overall, the system as it existed was a net positive for all those children who died in those schools.

And that makes perfectly rational sense once you accept that there is an eternal existence that is dependent on salvation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:41:57 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
Quote from: ulmont on July 09, 2021, 08:47:05 AM
QuoteThe Meaning Of The Native Graves
They're good, actually.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-meaning-of-the-native-graves/

QuoteIt is very important to note that the entire story is made up. First, we have always known that many children died in the residential schools, which were active through the 19th and 20th centuries. Child mortality was relatively high during that period to begin with; Indian mortality overall was astronomically high; and the Church-run schools for native children were systemically underfunded by the government, resulting in subpar facilities and inadequate medical care. Second, the sites almost certainly include the graves of Christian adults from the neighboring communities, as Chief Cadmus Delorme of the Cowessess First Nation admitted with respect to the Marieval Indian Residential School, where an estimated 751 burials were detected by radar last month. The "mass graves" of public hysteria are, in fact, the ordered and intentional burial sites of people we always knew were dead, and who died of more or less natural causes. In more literate times, we might have called that a cemetery.

The author is part right, part wrong here.

First, the "we have always known" - yes, we in terms of historians, or people who are educated on the topic.  In fact yesterday I went back and looked at the final report of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples (issued in 1996) - and yes it talks about the large number of deaths that happened at residential schools.  As well the final report on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission mentioned it at length.  But as the public outrage has shown - the public at large was unaware.  This is a failing of education.

Indian mortality overall was extremely high.  This also is true - but to what extent was that the fault of the Canadian government?

Schools were underfunded - yes.  But again if you go back in the historical record the government was repeatedly called out for this underfunding.

That these were cemeteries, not mass graves.  Also true.  But also that the government and churches made zero effort to maintain those cemeteries (the graves of which were adorned with simple wooden crosses) so the locations were very quickly lost.


And the whole notion that the death of children is okay because at least they were saved - I don't think any serious Christian would endorse that position.


I am not sure where to start.  It is maddening that you keep going to this apologist well BB.  I pointed out to you in the Canadian Politics thread that the TRC asked for more funding to better investigate the deaths at the Residential Schools and the Conservative government of the day denied that funding - twice! 

As a result the TRC had to make do with rough estimates.  As the new findings at Kamloops discovered those rough estimates were way off. The TRC's best guess was about 50 graves at that location - over 200 have now been found at that location. 

In relation to your last sentence, I think you need to come to grips with the fact that religious conservatives do consider themselves serious Christians and in fact have built their political brand on that identity.

 



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 11:34:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
And the whole notion that the death of children is okay because at least they were saved - I don't think any serious Christian would endorse that position.

That is not the authors claim though.

He is not saying it was ok, he is saying that it was better then the alternative.

That a system that resulted in a lot of native people dying after being saved is better than a system that perhaps allowed them to live longer, but die in a state of not being saved.

Obviously a system that lets them live a long, healthy life while also being saved is superior to either.

But that was not one of the options, so overall, the system as it existed was a net positive for all those children who died in those schools.

And that makes perfectly rational sense once you accept that there is an eternal existence that is dependent on salvation.

I don't see the argument that "a system that resulted in a lot of native people dying after being saved is better than a system that perhaps allowed them to live longer, but die in a state of not being saved".

It seems the argument is pro conversion (including separating children for conversion), and that premature deaths were the fault of the secular authorities, and that deaths were astronomically high anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:51:51 AM
AR, the article expressly states  the argument Berkut summarized.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:41:57 AM
It is maddening that you keep going to this apologist well BB.

It is maddening that you can read what I wrote and then call me an apologist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:56:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:41:57 AM
It is maddening that you keep going to this apologist well BB.

It is maddening that you can read what I wrote and then call me an apologist.

Perhaps you should go back and read what you wrote.  You defended that trash with further inaccuracies. When I look up the definition of apologist, the word fits.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:56:52 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:56:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:41:57 AM
It is maddening that you keep going to this apologist well BB.

It is maddening that you can read what I wrote and then call me an apologist.

Perhaps you should go back and read what you wrote.  You defended that trash with further inaccuracies. When I look up the definition of apologist, the word fits.

Yup I'm done here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:57:20 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:56:52 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:56:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:41:57 AM
It is maddening that you keep going to this apologist well BB.

It is maddening that you can read what I wrote and then call me an apologist.

Perhaps you should go back and read what you wrote.  You defended that trash with further inaccuracies. When I look up the definition of apologist, the word fits.

Yup I'm done here.

Good.  Then I dont have to further correct your posts...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:57:20 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:56:52 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:56:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:41:57 AM
It is maddening that you keep going to this apologist well BB.

It is maddening that you can read what I wrote and then call me an apologist.

Perhaps you should go back and read what you wrote.  You defended that trash with further inaccuracies. When I look up the definition of apologist, the word fits.

Yup I'm done here.

Good.  Then I dont have to further correct your posts...

:jaron:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:51:51 AM
AR, the article expressly states  the argument Berkut summarized.

Can you quote that for me? I'm not seeing any acknowledgement at any point that baseline deaths in the schools were higher than outside the schools for the native population. In fact, setting the baseline of deaths overall at a very high level is the first point raised after saying the current narrative in the media is "entirely made up".

First, we have always known that many children died in the residential schools, which were active through the 19th and 20th centuries. Child mortality was relatively high during that period to begin with; Indian mortality overall was astronomically high; and the Church-run schools for native children were systemically underfunded by the government, resulting in subpar facilities and inadequate medical care.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 12:04:26 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:57:20 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:56:52 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:56:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:41:57 AM
It is maddening that you keep going to this apologist well BB.

It is maddening that you can read what I wrote and then call me an apologist.

Perhaps you should go back and read what you wrote.  You defended that trash with further inaccuracies. When I look up the definition of apologist, the word fits.

Yup I'm done here.

Good.  Then I dont have to further correct your posts...

:jaron:

Rather than going full Jaron, perhaps you could counter with a substantive response.  Tell me where my criticism of your post was wrong.  Tell me that I am wrong about the Conservatives denying funding to the TRC.  Tell me I am wrong the rough estimates were way off.  Go ahead, I am waiting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 12:04:26 PM
Rather than going full Jaron, perhaps you could counter with a substantive response.  Tell me where my criticism of your post was wrong.  Tell me that I am wrong about the Conservatives denying funding to the TRC.  Tell me I am wrong the rough estimates were way off.  Go ahead, I am waiting.

:jaron:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 09, 2021, 12:06:40 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
Can you quote that for me? I'm not seeing any acknowledgement at any point that baseline deaths in the schools were higher than outside the schools for the native population. In fact, setting the baseline of deaths overall at a very high level is the first point raised after saying the current narrative in the media is "entirely made up".

The article says:

Likewise, the certain fact that souls were saved by the missionaries, the enduring belief of Christians that the Gospel is true and must be spread, is paramount; everything else is secondary.

Whatever good was present at the Ossossané ossuary—where those who had not yet encountered the fullness of Truth honored their dead as best they knew how—is increased a thousandfold in the cemeteries of the residential schools, where baptized Christians were given Christian burials. Whatever natural good was present in the piety and community of the pagan past is an infinitesimal fraction of the grace rendered unto those pagans' descendants who have been received into the Church of Christ. Whatever sacrifices were exacted in pursuit of that grace—the suffocation of a noble pagan culture; an increase in disease and bodily death due to government negligence; even the sundering of natural families—is worth it.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 12:04:26 PM
Rather than going full Jaron, perhaps you could counter with a substantive response.  Tell me where my criticism of your post was wrong.  Tell me that I am wrong about the Conservatives denying funding to the TRC.  Tell me I am wrong the rough estimates were way off.  Go ahead, I am waiting.

:jaron:

Ok, I will take that as an admission you cannot find fault with my comments and have just decided to go full Jaron.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:10:42 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 12:04:26 PM
Rather than going full Jaron, perhaps you could counter with a substantive response.  Tell me where my criticism of your post was wrong.  Tell me that I am wrong about the Conservatives denying funding to the TRC.  Tell me I am wrong the rough estimates were way off.  Go ahead, I am waiting.

:jaron:

Ok, I will take that as an admission you cannot find fault with my comments and have just decided to go full Jaron.

:jaron:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 12:11:24 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 11:51:51 AM
AR, the article expressly states  the argument Berkut summarized.

Can you quote that for me? I'm not seeing any acknowledgement at any point that baseline deaths in the schools were higher than outside the schools for the native population. In fact, setting the baseline of deaths overall at a very high level is the first point raised after saying the current narrative in the media is "entirely made up".

First, we have always known that many children died in the residential schools, which were active through the 19th and 20th centuries. Child mortality was relatively high during that period to begin with; Indian mortality overall was astronomically high; and the Church-run schools for native children were systemically underfunded by the government, resulting in subpar facilities and inadequate medical care.

They are not arguing that deaths in the school are not higher - at least, they don't say that explicitly. They kind of dance around that.

But that doesn't effect their core argument that salvation trumps any other concern. They may not admit that deaths in the school were higher, but they are certainly arguing that it would not matter if they were - it would still be worth it.


Quote...the Gospel is true and must be spread, is paramount; everything else is secondary.

And again, their argument makes perfect sense if you accept that there is an eternal life to be had dependent on salvation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 12:14:50 PM
I actually feel really bad for Barrister. He is a good guy trying to figure out how to square being a religious conservative with what modern religious conservatives have become.

He isn't willing to abandon his faith, nor is he willing to abandon his core identity as a "conservative", but keeps finding himself in company with a bunch of crazy, dangerous, immoral people. He is none of those things, but has to somehow square the reality that his political identity is tied up in modern fanaticism, and doesn't want to examine how that happened.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:17:41 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 12:14:50 PM
I actually feel really bad for Barrister. He is a good guy trying to figure out how to square being a religious conservative with what modern religious conservatives have become.

He isn't willing to abandon his faith, nor is he willing to abandon his core identity as a "conservative", but keeps finding himself in company with a bunch of crazy, dangerous, immoral people. He is none of those things, but has to somehow square the reality that his political identity is tied up in modern fanaticism, and doesn't want to examine how that happened.

Oh good grief.  Just because I refuse to engage in debate with you lot when I get called names doesn't mean I'm incapable of introspection.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 12:20:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 09, 2021, 12:06:40 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
Can you quote that for me? I'm not seeing any acknowledgement at any point that baseline deaths in the schools were higher than outside the schools for the native population. In fact, setting the baseline of deaths overall at a very high level is the first point raised after saying the current narrative in the media is "entirely made up".

The article says:

Likewise, the certain fact that souls were saved by the missionaries, the enduring belief of Christians that the Gospel is true and must be spread, is paramount; everything else is secondary.

Whatever good was present at the Ossossané ossuary—where those who had not yet encountered the fullness of Truth honored their dead as best they knew how—is increased a thousandfold in the cemeteries of the residential schools, where baptized Christians were given Christian burials. Whatever natural good was present in the piety and community of the pagan past is an infinitesimal fraction of the grace rendered unto those pagans' descendants who have been received into the Church of Christ. Whatever sacrifices were exacted in pursuit of that grace—the suffocation of a noble pagan culture; an increase in disease and bodily death due to government negligence; even the sundering of natural families—is worth it.

Point conceded.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 09, 2021, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:17:41 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 12:14:50 PM
I actually feel really bad for Barrister. He is a good guy trying to figure out how to square being a religious conservative with what modern religious conservatives have become.

He isn't willing to abandon his faith, nor is he willing to abandon his core identity as a "conservative", but keeps finding himself in company with a bunch of crazy, dangerous, immoral people. He is none of those things, but has to somehow square the reality that his political identity is tied up in modern fanaticism, and doesn't want to examine how that happened.

Oh good grief.  Just because I refuse to engage in debate with you lot when I get called names doesn't mean I'm incapable of introspection.

Capable and willing are different states.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 12:37:51 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 12:20:39 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 09, 2021, 12:06:40 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
Can you quote that for me? I'm not seeing any acknowledgement at any point that baseline deaths in the schools were higher than outside the schools for the native population. In fact, setting the baseline of deaths overall at a very high level is the first point raised after saying the current narrative in the media is "entirely made up".

The article says:

Likewise, the certain fact that souls were saved by the missionaries, the enduring belief of Christians that the Gospel is true and must be spread, is paramount; everything else is secondary.

Whatever good was present at the Ossossané ossuary—where those who had not yet encountered the fullness of Truth honored their dead as best they knew how—is increased a thousandfold in the cemeteries of the residential schools, where baptized Christians were given Christian burials. Whatever natural good was present in the piety and community of the pagan past is an infinitesimal fraction of the grace rendered unto those pagans' descendants who have been received into the Church of Christ. Whatever sacrifices were exacted in pursuit of that grace—the suffocation of a noble pagan culture; an increase in disease and bodily death due to government negligence; even the sundering of natural families—is worth it.

Point conceded.

Those were the parts I quoted in my first post  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 09, 2021, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:17:41 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 12:14:50 PM
I actually feel really bad for Barrister. He is a good guy trying to figure out how to square being a religious conservative with what modern religious conservatives have become.

He isn't willing to abandon his faith, nor is he willing to abandon his core identity as a "conservative", but keeps finding himself in company with a bunch of crazy, dangerous, immoral people. He is none of those things, but has to somehow square the reality that his political identity is tied up in modern fanaticism, and doesn't want to examine how that happened.

Oh good grief.  Just because I refuse to engage in debate with you lot when I get called names doesn't mean I'm incapable of introspection.

Capable and willing are different states.

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 12:45:05 PM
Quote from: ulmont on July 09, 2021, 08:47:05 AM
QuoteThe Meaning Of The Native Graves
They're good, actually.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-meaning-of-the-native-graves/

If Christianity is about joyfully spreading the news of Christ's redemption in the spirit of love and compassion, what does that make Mr. Leary, with his transparently asinine trolling?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 12:49:34 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 12:45:05 PM
Quote from: ulmont on July 09, 2021, 08:47:05 AM
QuoteThe Meaning Of The Native Graves
They're good, actually.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-meaning-of-the-native-graves/

If Christianity is about joyfully spreading the news of Christ's redemption in the spirit of love and compassion, what does that make Mr. Leary, with his transparently asinine trolling?

The name of the publication that published the piece seems to give a hint.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on July 09, 2021, 12:50:18 PM
Syt, my apologies; I saw that article and thought it fit in perfectly with this thread.  I did not mean to make this the "Canadian Politics Thread 3.0: This Time it's Dumber."

Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
And the whole notion that the death of children is okay because at least they were saved - I don't think any serious Christian would endorse that position.

Barrister, do you realize how many times you have "No True Scotsman"'d for Christianity on Languish?  At some point you gotta accept that the Christian brand is, well, bad and the people that promote it are usually worse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 09, 2021, 12:52:35 PM
Don't worry, all good. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:06:14 PM
Quote from: ulmont on July 09, 2021, 12:50:18 PM
Syt, my apologies; I saw that article and thought it fit in perfectly with this thread.  I did not mean to make this the "Canadian Politics Thread 3.0: This Time it's Dumber."

Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
And the whole notion that the death of children is okay because at least they were saved - I don't think any serious Christian would endorse that position.

Barrister, do you realize how many times you have "No True Scotsman"'d for Christianity on Languish?  At some point you gotta accept that the Christian brand is, well, bad and the people that promote it are usually worse.

Except I don't think I've ever said that TV televangelists, right-wing blowhards, or the like aren't Christians.  You say you believe in Christ, you're a Christian.  The Christian brand is decidedly mixed around the world, with both really high highs, and really low lows.

But I think you can make a distinction between a serious Christian and an unserious one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 01:11:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:06:14 PM
Except I don't think I've ever said that TV televangelists, right-wing blowhards, or the like aren't Christians.  You say you believe in Christ, you're a Christian.  The Christian brand is decidedly mixed around the world, with both really high highs, and really low lows.

But I think you can make a distinction between a serious Christian and an unserious one.

What is the basis for that distinction?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 01:27:22 PM
I agree with BB; "Christianity" is a popular brand name but for many the attach themselves to the label, it is just that.

Christianity is on its face very hard religion to follow with fidelity as it places nearly impossible moral burdens and aspirations on would-be followers.  But the secret sauce since the decline of the Arians is that it is very forgiving of moral failure. It's expected that people will fail; indeed, that is what Christ's grace is there for.  At the same time, the implication that follows - and it is an implication spelled out explicitly if the Gospels - is that one cannot hate one's enemies, because they too are eligible for Christ's grace and may one day be among the saved.  Hate the sin, not the sinner.

What the past 5 years have confirmed is that quite a few Americans identifying themselves as Christians are really nothing of the sort.  Is it a label or identity adopted to define themselves against Others, and those Others are to be objects of hatred, contempt and worse by virtue of their otherness.  Thus, we have the bizarre juxtaposition of "Christians" adhering to the single most un-Christian leader in American history, not merely out of desperation for lack of a better alternative, but affirmatively and worshipfully.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:32:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 01:11:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:06:14 PM
Except I don't think I've ever said that TV televangelists, right-wing blowhards, or the like aren't Christians.  You say you believe in Christ, you're a Christian.  The Christian brand is decidedly mixed around the world, with both really high highs, and really low lows.

But I think you can make a distinction between a serious Christian and an unserious one.

What is the basis for that distinction?

Knowledge of, and reference to, Scripture and the wider Christian tradition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 09, 2021, 01:39:12 PM
Quote from: ulmont on July 09, 2021, 12:50:18 PM
Syt, my apologies; I saw that article and thought it fit in perfectly with this thread.  I did not mean to make this the "Canadian Politics Thread 3.0: This Time it's Dumber."

Hi!

En Français, svp.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 01:43:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:32:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 01:11:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:06:14 PM
Except I don't think I've ever said that TV televangelists, right-wing blowhards, or the like aren't Christians.  You say you believe in Christ, you're a Christian.  The Christian brand is decidedly mixed around the world, with both really high highs, and really low lows.

But I think you can make a distinction between a serious Christian and an unserious one.

What is the basis for that distinction?

Knowledge of, and reference to, Scripture and the wider Christian tradition.

If you read the article in question Scripture was quoted and formed the basis of the argument put forward.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:48:42 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 01:43:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:32:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 01:11:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:06:14 PM
Except I don't think I've ever said that TV televangelists, right-wing blowhards, or the like aren't Christians.  You say you believe in Christ, you're a Christian.  The Christian brand is decidedly mixed around the world, with both really high highs, and really low lows.

But I think you can make a distinction between a serious Christian and an unserious one.

What is the basis for that distinction?

Knowledge of, and reference to, Scripture and the wider Christian tradition.

If you read the article in question Scripture was quoted and formed the basis of the argument put forward.

:jaron:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 01:43:44 PM
If you read the article in question Scripture was quoted and formed the basis of the argument put forward.

Did it? More like it undermined it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 09, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 01:43:44 PM
If you read the article in question Scripture was quoted and formed the basis of the argument put forward.

Did it? More like it undermined it.

I don't think the author thought so...?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 09, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 01:27:22 PM
I agree with BB; "Christianity" is a popular brand name but for many the attach themselves to the label, it is just that.

Christianity is on its face very hard religion to follow with fidelity as it places nearly impossible moral burdens and aspirations on would-be followers.  But the secret sauce since the decline of the Arians is that it is very forgiving of moral failure. It's expected that people will fail; indeed, that is what Christ's grace is there for.  At the same time, the implication that follows - and it is an implication spelled out explicitly if the Gospels - is that one cannot hate one's enemies, because they too are eligible for Christ's grace and may one day be among the saved.  Hate the sin, not the sinner.

What the past 5 years have confirmed is that quite a few Americans identifying themselves as Christians are really nothing of the sort.  Is it a label or identity adopted to define themselves against Others, and those Others are to be objects of hatred, contempt and worse by virtue of their otherness.  Thus, we have the bizarre juxtaposition of "Christians" adhering to the single most un-Christian leader in American history, not merely out of desperation for lack of a better alternative, but affirmatively and worshipfully.

I'm not really sure how that's a new development for Christianity?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 02:20:00 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 01:43:44 PM
If you read the article in question Scripture was quoted and formed the basis of the argument put forward.

Did it? More like it undermined it.

Yes, but then again, you would not have written that article.  Nor attempted to defend it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 04:05:36 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 09, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
I'm not really sure how that's a new development for Christianity?

I didn't say it was.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 04:06:51 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 09, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
I don't think the author thought so...?

Nu?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 04:07:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:32:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 01:11:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:06:14 PM
Except I don't think I've ever said that TV televangelists, right-wing blowhards, or the like aren't Christians.  You say you believe in Christ, you're a Christian.  The Christian brand is decidedly mixed around the world, with both really high highs, and really low lows.

But I think you can make a distinction between a serious Christian and an unserious one.

What is the basis for that distinction?

Knowledge of, and reference to, Scripture and the wider Christian tradition.

One would think that knowledge of those things would be common among believers. Yet...

It always strikes me as odd that people can put so much importance on and faith in something they have never really read or thought much about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 02:20:00 PM
Yes, but then again, you would not have written that article.  Nor attempted to defend it.

I agree that the article was indefensible but the objective was to troll not elucidate. He knew exactly the reaction his argument would provoke and that was the point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 04:13:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 02:20:00 PM
Yes, but then again, you would not have written that article.  Nor attempted to defend it.

I agree that the article was indefensible but the objective was to troll not elucidate. He knew exactly the reaction his argument would provoke and that was the point.

Yes. But that does not change the fact that he quoted and relied upon scripture for his argument.  You and from his response, BB, would argue that he got it all wrong.  But that is just a theological disagreement.  Not something which casts the author's seriousness as a Christian in doubt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 09, 2021, 04:26:33 PM
Berkut is correct; if you accept the basic tenets of Christianity, salvation trumps all other considerations. However, most modern Christians won't come out and say that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 09, 2021, 05:01:43 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 09, 2021, 04:06:51 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 09, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
I don't think the author thought so...?

Nu?

Here's how I think the conversation went:

Beeb: Serious Christians would not argue that saving souls justifies doing terrible things. Serious Christians are those who know of and reference scripture in their arguments.

CC: But the guy was quoting scripture to support his argument that any miseries of residential schools were worth it since it brought people into Christianity (i.e. as per Beeb, he's doing the things that is evidence of being a serious Christian to argue for something serious Christian's would not support; an apparent contradiction).

MM: He didn't support his argument with those quotes, more like undermined it (implying he's not a serious Christian because he sucks at understanding scripture).

J: He thought he was supporting his argument though (implying that he at least thinks he's serious Christian even if you and Beeb disagree).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 09, 2021, 06:24:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 01:11:46 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:06:14 PM
Except I don't think I've ever said that TV televangelists, right-wing blowhards, or the like aren't Christians.  You say you believe in Christ, you're a Christian.  The Christian brand is decidedly mixed around the world, with both really high highs, and really low lows.

But I think you can make a distinction between a serious Christian and an unserious one.

What is the basis for that distinction?

Substituting "no serious Christian" for "no true Scotsman" doesn't make it any less a logical fallacy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 08:12:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:17:41 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 12:14:50 PM
I actually feel really bad for Barrister. He is a good guy trying to figure out how to square being a religious conservative with what modern religious conservatives have become.

He isn't willing to abandon his faith, nor is he willing to abandon his core identity as a "conservative", but keeps finding himself in company with a bunch of crazy, dangerous, immoral people. He is none of those things, but has to somehow square the reality that his political identity is tied up in modern fanaticism, and doesn't want to examine how that happened.

Oh good grief.  Just because I refuse to engage in debate with you lot when I get called names doesn't mean I'm incapable of introspection.

Nobody called you any names. Quite the opposite in fact - all the personal vitriol has come exclusively from you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 09, 2021, 08:20:11 PM
You guys have been attacking BB a lot recently.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 08:21:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 09, 2021, 08:20:11 PM
You guys have been attacking BB a lot recently.

I have not attacked Barrister at all recently.

Not agreeing with someone is not an attack, even if they feel like it is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 09, 2021, 08:23:33 PM
You did attack him in the other thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 08:26:04 PM
No, I did not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 09, 2021, 08:37:36 PM
Whether BB was attacked or not, he really needs to work on his "I'm done here" game.  He spends more time being done with an argument than being pre-done.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 08:50:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 09, 2021, 08:20:11 PM
You guys have been attacking BB a lot recently.

I criticized both the fact that he suggested part of the article was correct and the erroneous factual statements he made to support that conclusion.

He took it very personally.

That is on him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 09, 2021, 08:23:33 PM
You did attack him in the other thread.

pfff, that was barely a Languish flesh wound.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 09, 2021, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 09, 2021, 08:20:11 PM
You guys have been attacking BB a lot recently.

He seems to be ready for battle at least.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 09, 2021, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
That these were cemeteries, not mass graves.  Also true.  But also that the government and churches made zero effort to maintain those cemeteries (the graves of which were adorned with simple wooden crosses) so the locations were very quickly lost.
back then, only rich people could afford a tombstone.  My great grandparents on my father's side don't have one because the family was too poor to afford it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 09, 2021, 10:11:34 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
In fact, setting the baseline of deaths overall at a very high level is the first point raised after saying the current narrative in the media is "entirely made up".

First, we have always known that many children died in the residential schools, which were active through the 19th and 20th centuries. Child mortality was relatively high during that period to begin with; Indian mortality overall was astronomically high; and the Church-run schools for native children were systemically underfunded by the government, resulting in subpar facilities and inadequate medical care.
mortality was high because Indians were put on reservations and not fed taken care of thereafter.  Most of these people were nomads, following the bisons or reindeers, depending where they were.  Then the bisons were no more.  And they were forced to sedentary life styles in places where agriculture was extremely hard to perform. And then there are the epidemics transmitted by the whites, unwittingly that adds up.  And the experiment in maltrunition in the boarding schools, under the guise of science.  It will be hard to distinguish what was the result of neglect what was unavoidable mortality for the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 09, 2021, 10:15:56 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 08:50:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 09, 2021, 08:20:11 PM
You guys have been attacking BB a lot recently.

I criticized both the fact that he suggested part of the article was correct and the erroneous factual statements he made to support that conclusion.
he specifically quoted the parts that were wrong and said so, as well as telling us which part was partially right: the high indian mortality of the time.

I don't see anything wrong with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 09, 2021, 10:11:34 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 09, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
In fact, setting the baseline of deaths overall at a very high level is the first point raised after saying the current narrative in the media is "entirely made up".

First, we have always known that many children died in the residential schools, which were active through the 19th and 20th centuries. Child mortality was relatively high during that period to begin with; Indian mortality overall was astronomically high; and the Church-run schools for native children were systemically underfunded by the government, resulting in subpar facilities and inadequate medical care.
mortality was high because Indians were put on reservations and not fed taken care of thereafter.  Most of these people were nomads, following the bisons or reindeers, depending where they were.  Then the bisons were no more.  And they were forced to sedentary life styles in places where agriculture was extremely hard to perform. And then there are the epidemics transmitted by the whites, unwittingly that adds up.  And the experiment in maltrunition in the boarding schools, under the guise of science.  It will be hard to distinguish what was the result of neglect what was unavoidable mortality for the time.

Well at least there are some partial truths in there.  But the death of the kids at Kamloops had nothing to do with Bisons being no more.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 10, 2021, 02:16:52 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 12:14:50 PM
I actually feel really bad for Barrister. He is a good guy trying to figure out how to square being a religious conservative with what modern religious conservatives have become.

He isn't willing to abandon his faith, nor is he willing to abandon his core identity as a "conservative", but keeps finding himself in company with a bunch of crazy, dangerous, immoral people. He is none of those things, but has to somehow square the reality that his political identity is tied up in modern fanaticism, and doesn't want to examine how that happened.

For the love of all that is good, what's the point of this post Berkut? You can read minds now?

How is BB supposed to feel/answer when he reads your 0.02$ coming out of left field? You gotta learn to stfu once in a while dude.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 10, 2021, 04:48:22 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 10, 2021, 02:16:52 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 12:14:50 PM
I actually feel really bad for Barrister. He is a good guy trying to figure out how to square being a religious conservative with what modern religious conservatives have become.

He isn't willing to abandon his faith, nor is he willing to abandon his core identity as a "conservative", but keeps finding himself in company with a bunch of crazy, dangerous, immoral people. He is none of those things, but has to somehow square the reality that his political identity is tied up in modern fanaticism, and doesn't want to examine how that happened.

For the love of all that is good, what's the point of this post Berkut? You can read minds now?

How is BB supposed to feel/answer when he reads your 0.02$ coming out of left field? You gotta learn to stfu once in a while dude.

If we knew when to shut up this forum would have died a decade ago. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 10, 2021, 04:53:35 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 10, 2021, 02:16:52 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 09, 2021, 12:14:50 PM
I actually feel really bad for Barrister. He is a good guy trying to figure out how to square being a religious conservative with what modern religious conservatives have become.

He isn't willing to abandon his faith, nor is he willing to abandon his core identity as a "conservative", but keeps finding himself in company with a bunch of crazy, dangerous, immoral people. He is none of those things, but has to somehow square the reality that his political identity is tied up in modern fanaticism, and doesn't want to examine how that happened.

For the love of all that is good, what's the point of this post Berkut? You can read minds now?

How is BB supposed to feel/answer when he reads your 0.02$ coming out of left field? You gotta learn to stfu once in a while dude.

They've been battling across a few threads now so I don't see how out of the blue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on July 10, 2021, 06:33:40 AM
Can't believe I'm saying this but Syt, please post some of your sister's crap.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 10, 2021, 08:48:52 AM
Quote from: Maladict on July 10, 2021, 06:33:40 AM
Can't believe I'm saying this but Syt, please post some of your sister's crap.

Best I can do right now.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/194137084_3971689876282682_6669373683248185217_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sKDwfD5QlTMAX9j8oVR&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=745deca509f85f7b0eac970f6a38d7f5&oe=60EF6492)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 10, 2021, 01:55:30 PM
That will be enough for now, Syt.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 10, 2021, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 10:37:15 PM
Well at least there are some partial truths in there.  But the death of the kids at Kamloops had nothing to do with Bisons being no more.

their tribes were mostly nomads forced into a sedentary lifestyle and then underfed in their reservations.  Only a few were semi-sedentaries, but they were displaced from the best lands as settlements increased anyway.

From there, the kids were taken and put into boarding schools, hundreds of kilometers from their homes where they would be educated in the white's way.  The originators of the idea in the early 19th century thought they were doing them good and saw it as a way to break the cycle of poverty and hardlife in the reservations.

Once it began, as the indian culture was seen as inferior to anglo-saxon culture, the priests from Europe were tasked with killing the indian in them.  Even though these priests&nuns came from French speaking lands, including Quebec, teaching was to be made exclusively in English, no other inferior languages were permitted.

Not that the system of the time was particularly "comfy" for orphaned&abandoned childrens, but with First Nations, given that they were taken away from their family and their families often never heard of them ever again, it was much more cruel.

So, yeah, it had to do with the idea that we needed to change the indian culture *right now*, transforming nomad societies into sedentary ones over the course of a few years.  From there, the rest follows.  Once they were no longer able to take care of themselves and depended on governt good-will to survive, we decided it would be for the best if they were to be assimilated into the "superior" Anglo-Saxon culture so they would stand a chance in the "modern" world.

If the word "bison" bothers you, just replace it by whatever seasonal sustenance these nations used while moving around.  Salmon, whales, deers, moose, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 10, 2021, 11:41:34 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/215587966_1020654845341025_4284631384350650775_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=E9o9gaBG8pQAX_1yqvW&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f838d7cda1e5cca6434f4696f1138078&oe=60EF6F71)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 11, 2021, 12:26:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 10, 2021, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 10:37:15 PM
Well at least there are some partial truths in there.  But the death of the kids at Kamloops had nothing to do with Bisons being no more.

their tribes were mostly nomads forced into a sedentary lifestyle and then underfed in their reservations.  Only a few were semi-sedentaries, but they were displaced from the best lands as settlements increased anyway.

From there, the kids were taken and put into boarding schools, hundreds of kilometers from their homes where they would be educated in the white's way.  The originators of the idea in the early 19th century thought they were doing them good and saw it as a way to break the cycle of poverty and hardlife in the reservations.

Once it began, as the indian culture was seen as inferior to anglo-saxon culture, the priests from Europe were tasked with killing the indian in them.  Even though these priests&nuns came from French speaking lands, including Quebec, teaching was to be made exclusively in English, no other inferior languages were permitted.

Not that the system of the time was particularly "comfy" for orphaned&abandoned childrens, but with First Nations, given that they were taken away from their family and their families often never heard of them ever again, it was much more cruel.

So, yeah, it had to do with the idea that we needed to change the indian culture *right now*, transforming nomad societies into sedentary ones over the course of a few years.  From there, the rest follows.  Once they were no longer able to take care of themselves and depended on governt good-will to survive, we decided it would be for the best if they were to be assimilated into the "superior" Anglo-Saxon culture so they would stand a chance in the "modern" world.

If the word "bison" bothers you, just replace it by whatever seasonal sustenance these nations used while moving around.  Salmon, whales, deers, moose, etc.

It is problematic to make those sorts of sweeping generalizations which assume that all indigenous experiences were the same.  There is no such thing as one Indigenous Culture.  There is also no such thing as all groups being nomadic.  As an example there were a number of pre-contact indigenous permanent communities in BC.  Think of the Haida, the Nisga'a, the Tsleil-Waututh, the Musqueam, etc etc etc.  I am not as familiar with the interior indigenous communities in BC but I do know that there were also a number of permanent communities there as well.  A number of those communities continued to exist despite contact with the settlers.  The Nisga'a and Haida, as examples, have always been the dominant group on their lands.  That is part of the reason the Nisga'a treaty was the first modern treaty - the lands were not in dispute and what settler populations had come to their lands had long since de facto been living within Nisga'a traditions.

It is not the word Bison that bothers me.  It is the argument that indigenous communities were no longer functional because their "nomadic" way of life was disrupted.  As I have pointed out your assertion that all communities were nomadic is just plain wrong.  But more problematic is the argument (which I want to emphasize you did not make but which does flow from the sort of inaccurate observations you have made) that the communities and homes from which the children were taken were no longer viable and so as bad as the residential schools were, the children were still better off despite all the horrors.  That is not true and was completely discredited in the TRC report.  To use the Nisga'a again as an example.  Those communities were thriving and still the children were taken away.  As you say, this was never about the welfare of the children.  This was always about assimilation.

Please keep in mind that when trying to describe what occurred with indigenous communities in BC there are significant geographical differences within BC and and with the rest of the country. Remember we are talking about a landmass larger than France and Germany combined.  There are also significant differences with the way various indigenous communities within BC interacted with the settler populations.  No one simplistic explanation that attempts to describe the hundreds of different indigenous communities across the country will be adequate to the task.   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 11, 2021, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 11, 2021, 12:26:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 10, 2021, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 10:37:15 PM
Well at least there are some partial truths in there.  But the death of the kids at Kamloops had nothing to do with Bisons being no more.

their tribes were mostly nomads forced into a sedentary lifestyle and then underfed in their reservations.  Only a few were semi-sedentaries, but they were displaced from the best lands as settlements increased anyway.

From there, the kids were taken and put into boarding schools, hundreds of kilometers from their homes where they would be educated in the white's way.  The originators of the idea in the early 19th century thought they were doing them good and saw it as a way to break the cycle of poverty and hardlife in the reservations.

Once it began, as the indian culture was seen as inferior to anglo-saxon culture, the priests from Europe were tasked with killing the indian in them.  Even though these priests&nuns came from French speaking lands, including Quebec, teaching was to be made exclusively in English, no other inferior languages were permitted.

Not that the system of the time was particularly "comfy" for orphaned&abandoned childrens, but with First Nations, given that they were taken away from their family and their families often never heard of them ever again, it was much more cruel.

So, yeah, it had to do with the idea that we needed to change the indian culture *right now*, transforming nomad societies into sedentary ones over the course of a few years.  From there, the rest follows.  Once they were no longer able to take care of themselves and depended on governt good-will to survive, we decided it would be for the best if they were to be assimilated into the "superior" Anglo-Saxon culture so they would stand a chance in the "modern" world.

If the word "bison" bothers you, just replace it by whatever seasonal sustenance these nations used while moving around.  Salmon, whales, deers, moose, etc.

It is problematic to make those sorts of sweeping generalizations which assume that all indigenous experiences were the same.  There is no such thing as one Indigenous Culture.  There is also no such thing as all groups being nomadic.  As an example there were a number of pre-contact indigenous permanent communities in BC.  Think of the Haida, the Nisga'a, the Tsleil-Waututh, the Musqueam, etc etc etc.  I am not as familiar with the interior indigenous communities in BC but I do know that there were also a number of permanent communities there as well.  A number of those communities continued to exist despite contact with the settlers.  The Nisga'a and Haida, as examples, have always been the dominant group on their lands.  That is part of the reason the Nisga'a treaty was the first modern treaty - the lands were not in dispute and what settler populations had come to their lands had long since de facto been living within Nisga'a traditions.

It is not the word Bison that bothers me.  It is the argument that indigenous communities were no longer functional because their "nomadic" way of life was disrupted.  As I have pointed out your assertion that all communities were nomadic is just plain wrong.  But more problematic is the argument (which I want to emphasize you did not make but which does flow from the sort of inaccurate observations you have made) that the communities and homes from which the children were taken were no longer viable and so as bad as the residential schools were, the children were still better off despite all the horrors.  That is not true and was completely discredited in the TRC report.  To use the Nisga'a again as an example.  Those communities were thriving and still the children were taken away.  As you say, this was never about the welfare of the children.  This was always about assimilation.

Please keep in mind that when trying to describe what occurred with indigenous communities in BC there are significant geographical differences within BC and and with the rest of the country. Remember we are talking about a landmass larger than France and Germany combined.  There are also significant differences with the way various indigenous communities within BC interacted with the settler populations.  No one simplistic explanation that attempts to describe the hundreds of different indigenous communities across the country will be adequate to the task.   

I did not use a single explanation, nor did I say they were all nomads.  But to my knowledge, there were no permanent indigenous cities by the time of European colonization in North America.  Nothing like the Aztecs.  I think there were some cities with stone buildings when the Spanish begun exploring the Southern US regions though, but these were gone by the time the French & British settled there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 11, 2021, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 11, 2021, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 11, 2021, 12:26:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 10, 2021, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2021, 10:37:15 PM
Well at least there are some partial truths in there.  But the death of the kids at Kamloops had nothing to do with Bisons being no more.

their tribes were mostly nomads forced into a sedentary lifestyle and then underfed in their reservations.  Only a few were semi-sedentaries, but they were displaced from the best lands as settlements increased anyway.

From there, the kids were taken and put into boarding schools, hundreds of kilometers from their homes where they would be educated in the white's way.  The originators of the idea in the early 19th century thought they were doing them good and saw it as a way to break the cycle of poverty and hardlife in the reservations.

Once it began, as the indian culture was seen as inferior to anglo-saxon culture, the priests from Europe were tasked with killing the indian in them.  Even though these priests&nuns came from French speaking lands, including Quebec, teaching was to be made exclusively in English, no other inferior languages were permitted.

Not that the system of the time was particularly "comfy" for orphaned&abandoned childrens, but with First Nations, given that they were taken away from their family and their families often never heard of them ever again, it was much more cruel.

So, yeah, it had to do with the idea that we needed to change the indian culture *right now*, transforming nomad societies into sedentary ones over the course of a few years.  From there, the rest follows.  Once they were no longer able to take care of themselves and depended on governt good-will to survive, we decided it would be for the best if they were to be assimilated into the "superior" Anglo-Saxon culture so they would stand a chance in the "modern" world.

If the word "bison" bothers you, just replace it by whatever seasonal sustenance these nations used while moving around.  Salmon, whales, deers, moose, etc.

It is problematic to make those sorts of sweeping generalizations which assume that all indigenous experiences were the same.  There is no such thing as one Indigenous Culture.  There is also no such thing as all groups being nomadic.  As an example there were a number of pre-contact indigenous permanent communities in BC.  Think of the Haida, the Nisga'a, the Tsleil-Waututh, the Musqueam, etc etc etc.  I am not as familiar with the interior indigenous communities in BC but I do know that there were also a number of permanent communities there as well.  A number of those communities continued to exist despite contact with the settlers.  The Nisga'a and Haida, as examples, have always been the dominant group on their lands.  That is part of the reason the Nisga'a treaty was the first modern treaty - the lands were not in dispute and what settler populations had come to their lands had long since de facto been living within Nisga'a traditions.

It is not the word Bison that bothers me.  It is the argument that indigenous communities were no longer functional because their "nomadic" way of life was disrupted.  As I have pointed out your assertion that all communities were nomadic is just plain wrong.  But more problematic is the argument (which I want to emphasize you did not make but which does flow from the sort of inaccurate observations you have made) that the communities and homes from which the children were taken were no longer viable and so as bad as the residential schools were, the children were still better off despite all the horrors.  That is not true and was completely discredited in the TRC report.  To use the Nisga'a again as an example.  Those communities were thriving and still the children were taken away.  As you say, this was never about the welfare of the children.  This was always about assimilation.

Please keep in mind that when trying to describe what occurred with indigenous communities in BC there are significant geographical differences within BC and and with the rest of the country. Remember we are talking about a landmass larger than France and Germany combined.  There are also significant differences with the way various indigenous communities within BC interacted with the settler populations.  No one simplistic explanation that attempts to describe the hundreds of different indigenous communities across the country will be adequate to the task.   

I did not use a single explanation, nor did I say they were all nomads.  But to my knowledge, there were no permanent indigenous cities by the time of European colonization in North America.  Nothing like the Aztecs.  I think there were some cities with stone buildings when the Spanish begun exploring the Southern US regions though, but these were gone by the time the French & British settled there.

Ah so now an indigenous community needs to be a city.  Are your arms sore from moving those goal posts.

Rather than trying to defend an explanation that has no universal application, it might be better to read up on the topic a bit more.  You might even find the history of the indigenous peoples who are in BC interesting.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 11, 2021, 10:12:48 PM
You keep reading what I never wrote.  Well.  Let's keep it at that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 11, 2021, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 11, 2021, 10:12:48 PM
You keep reading what I never wrote.  Well.  Let's keep it at that.

Please explain what you meant when referring to the Aztecs then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 11, 2021, 11:15:58 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 11, 2021, 10:12:48 PM
You keep reading what I never wrote.  Well.  Let's keep it at that.

I feel like that should be the tagline for languish all up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2021, 12:55:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/106751036_2497100300600567_7429852221620633164_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=doAF1-9vZgMAX9gnC5D&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=70fd5847080f435403bdcf3ac6ee3402&oe=60F0B354)

For perspective: according to census.gov there were 3,204,313 slaves in the U.S. in 1850.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 02:42:01 AM
What difference does it make? I mean tins of mixed race Haitians had slaves, does that change anything?

Though I somehow doubt they were in every single state.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2021, 02:53:10 AM
I think the underlying point they try to make is that blacks were complicit in slavery in the United States (either as slavers selling to whites in Africa, or as owners of slaves), therefore it's wrong to blame whites for this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 12, 2021, 03:05:49 AM
Yeah, I never got that argument. You usually see it in a "Africans had slaves too!" smug comment.
.... Yeah? And?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 12, 2021, 03:45:24 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 03:05:49 AM
.... Yeah? And?

It suggests that blame is assigned on some basis other than simple culpability.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 08:34:27 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 03:05:49 AM
Yeah, I never got that argument. You usually see it in a "Africans had slaves too!" smug comment.
.... Yeah? And?

Sort of undermines Pan-Africanism. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 12, 2021, 08:42:02 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 08:34:27 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 03:05:49 AM
Yeah, I never got that argument. You usually see it in a "Africans had slaves too!" smug comment.
.... Yeah? And?

Sort of undermines Pan-Africanism. 
That's not the topic in which this usually comes up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 12, 2021, 08:42:15 AM
I think the point is more about how the media is keeping this information from us!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 12, 2021, 09:11:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 12:55:20 AM
For perspective: according to census.gov there were 3,204,313 slaves in the U.S. in 1850.

It is both sad and revealing of the staggering ignorance that of person who generated it - and the people recirculating this - think that they have stumbled on some shocking fact or something that doesn't ever appear in "the media". Among many other things, there was a Pulitzer Prize winning novel where the protagonist was a Black slaveholder;  I think "the media" covered it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 02:53:10 AM
I think the underlying point they try to make is that blacks were complicit in slavery in the United States (either as slavers selling to whites in Africa, or as owners of slaves), therefore it's wrong to blame whites for this.

Well it is a system. The blame for it is complicated, like most evil systems. Of course people of all races took whatever benefit they could from it if they lived where it existed. American Indians had slaves, for example.

The point is that the system was evil and opposed to everything our country was supposed to be opposed to. Oh and all the slaves happened to be black skinned people of African descent. I know some times these jokers try to bring indentures into it as if that is the same as slavery and while I think indentures are really bad and shouldn't be done they were at least kind of a quid pro quo in most cases. You were working off a crime or getting some benefit from your indenture, and you did have some rights as a person while indentured. And it had an expiration date and was not inherited by your descendants forever. Being a slave and being indentured was not the same.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 12, 2021, 09:49:36 AM
I think that it is even more important to note that the media is keeping from us the information that photography was invented in time for Anthony Johnson (died 1670) to be photographed for this poster.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 12, 2021, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?

After what war?  The American Civil War?  In that case, I think that you are referring to sharecropping, not indentured servitude.  There were some similarities in that the power structure was entirely in the hands of the landowners.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?

I don't think we still did indentures by 1865. Even for things like apprenticeships. But just like things like coverture, where a man gets all of a woman's stuff once he marries her (except kind of dowries which were an incredibly Byzantine arrangement), they went away at some point but I am not sure when or how.

What you are probably referring to are the share cropping schemes which were basically the 19th and 20th century American equivalents to serfdom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 09:59:26 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 12, 2021, 09:49:36 AM
I think that it is even more important to note that the media is keeping from us the information that photography was invented in time for Anthony Johnson (died 1670) to be photographed for this poster.

Oh did they really bring up that 17th century Angolan guy they always bring up when referring to 19th century slave ownership? Surely they can find at least one other example.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2021, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 12, 2021, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?

After what war?  The American Civil War?  In that case, I think that you are referring to sharecropping, not indentured servitude.  There were some similarities in that the power structure was entirely in the hands of the landowners.

Thanks for clarification. Is there a book you could recommend about the reconstruction period?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 12, 2021, 10:17:11 AM
I'm waiting for the proof that tens of thousands of African-Americans held white slaves in the US before the ACW.  That's something the media definitely isn't reporting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 10:21:49 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 12, 2021, 10:17:11 AM
I'm waiting for the proof that tens of thousands of African-Americans held white slaves in the US before the ACW.  That's something the media definitely isn't reporting.

If they were desperate to find Africans holding lots of European Slaves they only had centuries and centuries of the Mediterranean slave system to refer to. I guess if all you care about in the history of slavery is personally not feeling bad because of how much melanin you have in your skin that can provide some comfort.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 12, 2021, 10:31:04 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 10:21:49 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 12, 2021, 10:17:11 AM
I'm waiting for the proof that tens of thousands of African-Americans held white slaves in the US before the ACW.  That's something the media definitely isn't reporting.

If they were desperate to find Africans holding lots of European Slaves they only had centuries and centuries of the Mediterranean slave system to refer to. I guess if all you care about in the history of slavery is personally not feeling bad because of how much melanin you have in your skin that can provide some comfort.
You often see them talking about that too to be fair.
They seem to particularly love that one time the evil muslamics raided Ireland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 10:36:09 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 12, 2021, 10:31:04 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 10:21:49 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 12, 2021, 10:17:11 AM
I'm waiting for the proof that tens of thousands of African-Americans held white slaves in the US before the ACW.  That's something the media definitely isn't reporting.

If they were desperate to find Africans holding lots of European Slaves they only had centuries and centuries of the Mediterranean slave system to refer to. I guess if all you care about in the history of slavery is personally not feeling bad because of how much melanin you have in your skin that can provide some comfort.
You often see them talking about that too to be fair.
They seem to particularly love that one time the evil muslamics raided Ireland.

The defensiveness and tendency to take it personally when people from hundreds of years ago did something that, by the standards of today, was really bad is strange.

And I think most descendants of enslaved people wouldn't give a shit people in the past were enslaved if everything to day was great. That is what it is really about, not some oppression Olympics about the days of yore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 12, 2021, 12:09:31 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 12, 2021, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?

After what war?  The American Civil War?  In that case, I think that you are referring to sharecropping, not indentured servitude.  There were some similarities in that the power structure was entirely in the hands of the landowners.

Thanks for clarification. Is there a book you could recommend about the reconstruction period?

If you haven't read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, you can get that and read the portion about the Reconstruction.  It's not history-history, in that it isn't trying to tell a dispassionate story of what happened, but the account is true and it is very well-written popular history.

Eric Foner's Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution is probably the text that college intro courses are using.  Foner is a very accomplished academic historian, so his book is much more balanced and complete, but less well-written.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2021, 12:14:10 PM
Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 12, 2021, 12:34:33 PM
Yes, Foner is very much the textbook on the issue. He's got a shorter "Short history of the reconstruction" as well.

You can also read W. E. B. Dubois' important inaugural essay into Reconstruction, "The Freedmen's Bureau", written in 1901 for the Atlantic. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1901/03/the-freedmens-bureau/308772/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 12:36:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?


There was a much more slavery-like practice in the US after the Civil War: Prisoner Lease.  States could lease out convicts to private citizens as cheap workers.  As a result black people were regularly arrested on trumped up.  A black man who couldn't show that he was gainfully employed had a real chance of being charged with "vagrancy" and find himself right back on the plantation.  White prisoners could be leased out as well but the burden fell overwhelmingly on black men.  This practice lasted well into the 20th century.

Oh, my cat wanted to comment on this as well so she typed the following:

Quote from: Sally the Catmnjjjjjjjjjjjjjjsdxzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzfgvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 12:37:53 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 12:36:20 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Bit of a tangent, but didn't a lot of slaves indenture themselves after the war because they had few economic prospects?


There was a much more slavery-like practice in the US after the Civil War: Prisoner Lease.  States could lease out convicts to private citizens as cheap workers.  As a result black people were regularly arrested on trumped up.  A black man who couldn't show that he was gainfully employed had a real chance of being charged with "vagrancy" and find himself right back on the plantation.  White prisoners could be leased out as well but the burden fell overwhelmingly on black men.  This practice lasted well into the 20th century.

Oh, my cat wanted to comment on this as well so she typed the following:

Quote from: Sally the Catmnjjjjjjjjjjjjjjsdxzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzfgvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

We demand pictures of Sally.  :berkut:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 12, 2021, 12:47:15 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 12:36:20 PM
This practice lasted well into the 20th century.
I was under the impression that the United States still has forced labor in its prison system to this day. Maybe my impression is wrong?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 02:06:38 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 12, 2021, 12:47:15 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 12:36:20 PM
This practice lasted well into the 20th century.
I was under the impression that the United States still has forced labor in its prison system to this day. Maybe my impression is wrong?

They can't be leased out to private entities and in Missouri you can't force them to work and you must pay them.  Still, not a great system. You can see why African-Americans have such a critical view of Law Enforcement and frequently indifference to obedience to the law.  Why follow the law if they are just going to throw you in jail anyway?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on July 12, 2021, 02:41:48 PM
You can't force them to work and you must pay them, but you can pay them $2 per day and charge them $15 for a phone call. Also in many places the prisons are private entities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 02:56:42 PM
So my wife's cousin has started posting vaguely right-wing idiotic memes on Facebook.  One of which was posted by (I think) Syt's sister and re-posted in this thread - about how cops don't need more training, rather that parents failed their child.

I haven't had a lot to do with this guy over the years, but he was quite kind to me when I was first coming to meet her family and has always seemed like a stand-up guy (his brother is also in law enforcement so a pro-cop POV is pretty understandable).  But more importantly he almost certainly is suffering from Huntington's Disease which is a neurological disorder that absolutely can affect your thinking and reasoning skills.

I guess I just ignore it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2021, 03:01:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/35898122_10217219781795990_985390464070844416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nUhSTxPuFloAX_lJFpu&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=050736de62def8e14ca11fea95405780&oe=60F0D873)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 03:05:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 03:01:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/35898122_10217219781795990_985390464070844416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nUhSTxPuFloAX_lJFpu&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=050736de62def8e14ca11fea95405780&oe=60F0D873)

Okay, so focusing on my non-British ancestors...

-came to this country legally - yes.
-adopted it's culture?  SPoke their language for generations and even 5 generations later I still have kept some of their culture
-didn't spit on the country's traditions - how exactly does one do that?
-didn't cost a dime?  They only came because they were given FREE LAND, and several of my ancestors certainly did rely on social assistance of one form or another
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 03:17:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 03:01:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/35898122_10217219781795990_985390464070844416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nUhSTxPuFloAX_lJFpu&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=050736de62def8e14ca11fea95405780&oe=60F0D873)

Yet your sisters came over and shit constantly over this country and its people and culture on Facebook all the time. Why can't we have the good hardworking America loving immigrants like Emma Goldman back again?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 12, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
Wait, isn't/wasn't one of your sisters on disability benefits?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 12, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
Wait, isn't/wasn't one of your sisters on disability benefits?

Not as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 12, 2021, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2021, 02:56:42 PM
So my wife's cousin has started posting vaguely right-wing idiotic memes on Facebook.  One of which was posted by (I think) Syt's sister and re-posted in this thread - about how cops don't need more training, rather that parents failed their child.

I haven't had a lot to do with this guy over the years, but he was quite kind to me when I was first coming to meet her family and has always seemed like a stand-up guy (his brother is also in law enforcement so a pro-cop POV is pretty understandable).  But more importantly he almost certainly is suffering from Huntington's Disease which is a neurological disorder that absolutely can affect your thinking and reasoning skills.

I guess I just ignore it.

Its all you can do...I think.

I have Trumpers in the family, and directly challenging them

1. Doesn't work and will not convince them of anything, and
2. Makes Thanksgiving kind of suck

You can whittle around the edges. Me and my sister did manage to at least partially get our niece to start thinking a little differently about things like BLM. Considering her brother is the deputy sheriff who was shot recently, I thought that was something of an accomplishment at least.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 12, 2021, 03:33:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 12, 2021, 03:01:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/35898122_10217219781795990_985390464070844416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nUhSTxPuFloAX_lJFpu&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=050736de62def8e14ca11fea95405780&oe=60F0D873)

I would guess that the ancestors for a majority of Americans arrived at a time when there no national restrictions on immigration, and hence it was impossible to enter illegally.
Had such restrictions been understood to be within the power of the national government and had been imposed, it is likely many people of Irish descent would not be in the US today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 12, 2021, 03:40:25 PM
Country's traditions? What about Western's?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on July 12, 2021, 03:42:34 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 12, 2021, 03:40:25 PM
Country's traditions? What about Western's?

I am told we have the Best of those.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 03:46:29 PM
We didn't have immigration laws until 1876 and that was just to keep the Chinese out.  I don't know what "spit on our countries tradition" means exactly, but immigrants did rock the boat quite a bit.  The tradition of the Orangemen marching through New York City was curtailed by the Catholic Irish.  Quite a few people died in that process.  No justice, no peace.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 12, 2021, 03:48:14 PM
In many countries if something isn't illegal it's legal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 03:46:29 PM
We didn't have immigration laws until 1876 and that was just to keep the Chinese out.  I don't know what "spit on our countries tradition" means exactly, but immigrants did rock the boat quite a bit.  The tradition of the Orangemen marching through New York City was curtailed by the Catholic Irish.  Quite a few people died in that process.  No justice, no peace.

Yeah this meme is full of lies and meant to direct rage at current immigrants while pretending past ones were morally superior. And that is a charitable interpretation because it almost seems like it is full of racism sort of claiming past white immigrants were morally superior. That is kind of an awful thing to suggest but considering the whole "non-whites were the real slave owners!!111" stuff they have been posting lately....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 12, 2021, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 12, 2021, 03:48:14 PM
In many countries if something isn't illegal it's legal.

:yes:
At least tolerated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 12, 2021, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 12, 2021, 03:25:29 PM
Its all you can do...I think.

I have Trumpers in the family, and directly challenging them

1. Doesn't work and will not convince them of anything, and
2. Makes Thanksgiving kind of suck

You can whittle around the edges. Me and my sister did manage to at least partially get our niece to start thinking a little differently about things like BLM. Considering her brother is the deputy sheriff who was shot recently, I thought that was something of an accomplishment at least.

Yeah, I think the main thing you can do is the hard and thankless work of whittling around the edges. Provide them counterarguments they can choose to take, should they ever want them, and get them to acknowledge that your point of view is at least not based on the malicious lies projected on it by the social media they follow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 12, 2021, 03:48:14 PM
In many countries if something isn't illegal it's legal.

Only if we are talking about time and space being a fixed thing. As soon as you remove that constraint and suddenly you can do the same act at different times well plenty of actions can be illegal and legal. I am sure in the past there were lèse-majesté in Sweden. Now today people can probably talk shit about the King and not be arrested. Now would these Swedes talk shit about the King if they suddenly existed 200 years ago or whatever? Are they morally superior to some Swede who was arrested for lèse-majesté 200 years ago? Wow Swedes today are so much more law abiding when they insult the King! Those King insulters from the past sure could learn a thing or two from them.

Now do I know if my ancestors would have come here if they knew it was illegal to do so? I have no fucking idea. I do not even know why they left their country of origin and why they decided to move to wherever they ended up moving to. So how can I praise them for not breaking 21st century laws? They might have broken those laws if they had been present at the time. I don't know. Seems weird to make a moral judgement on that basis. What we do know is that plenty of immigrants did not adopt the culture and caused a lot of social strife with their differing religions and ideas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 12, 2021, 04:08:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Now today people can probably talk shit about the King and not be arrested..

The current King sure - but try and talk shit about Charles XII or Gustavus Adolphus and see what pushback you get.
Swedes may try to pass themselves off as balls of light, but some of them have weird things for monarchs who die stupidly in stupid wars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 12, 2021, 04:13:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 12, 2021, 03:48:14 PM
In many countries if something isn't illegal it's legal.

Only if we are talking about time and space being a fixed thing. As soon as you remove that constraint and suddenly you can do the same act at different times well plenty of actions can be illegal and legal. I am sure in the past there were lèse-majesté in Sweden. Now today people can probably talk shit about the King and not be arrested. Now would these Swedes talk shit about the King if they suddenly existed 200 years ago or whatever? Are they morally superior to some Swede who was arrested for lèse-majesté 200 years ago? Wow Swedes today are so much more law abiding when they insult the King! Those King insulters from the past sure could learn a thing or two from them.

Now do I know if my ancestors would have come here if they knew it was illegal to do so? I have no fucking idea. I do not even know why they left their country of origin and why they decided to move to wherever they ended up moving to. So how can I praise them for not breaking 21st century laws? They might have broken those laws if they had been present at the time. I don't know. Seems weird to make a moral judgement on that basis. What we do know is that plenty of immigrants did not adopt the culture and caused a lot of social strife with their differing religions and ideas.

*shrug* Considering how much is wrong with the text it just seems weird to me to attack the one thing that is probably true for many people in the target audience who consider themselves part of the "we/our" group.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 12, 2021, 05:41:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 03:49:37 PM
That is kind of an awful thing to suggest but considering the whole "non-whites were the real slave owners!!111" stuff they have been posting lately....
slave owners, I get, there were some.  But what is the "real" part?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 12, 2021, 05:46:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Now do I know if my ancestors would have come here if they knew it was illegal to do so? I have no fucking idea. I do not even know why they left their country of origin and why they decided to move to wherever they ended up moving to. So how can I praise them for not breaking 21st century laws? They might have broken those laws if they had been present at the time. I don't know. Seems weird to make a moral judgement on that basis. What we do know is that plenty of immigrants did not adopt the culture and caused a lot of social strife with their differing religions and ideas.
if a part of your family were Texans in 1835, they certainly didn't follow the laws, nor adapt the culture.  As for the "not shitting on your country" part, it really depends on how one views firing guns at the legal&legitimate authority of the country they reside in.  :sleep:
Then again, it seems to be some kind of tradition for many Americans to rebel against something.  1776,1835,1860.  I wonder when's the next one?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 06:30:38 PM
If I was descended from fillibusterin Texian fake Catholics I probably would have mentioned that by now :lol:

No the earliest Texans I am descended from were Irish Immigrants in the late 19th century.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 12, 2021, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 06:30:38 PM
If I was descended from fillibusterin Texian fake Catholics I probably would have mentioned that by now :lol:

No the earliest Texans I am descended from were Irish Immigrants in the late 19th century.

Exactly what a fillibusterin fake Catholic would say....  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 03:46:29 PM
We didn't have immigration laws until 1876 and that was just to keep the Chinese out.  I don't know what "spit on our countries tradition" means exactly, but immigrants did rock the boat quite a bit.  The tradition of the Orangemen marching through New York City was curtailed by the Catholic Irish.  Quite a few people died in that process.  No justice, no peace.

Yeah this meme is full of lies and meant to direct rage at current immigrants while pretending past ones were morally superior. And that is a charitable interpretation because it almost seems like it is full of racism sort of claiming past white immigrants were morally superior. That is kind of an awful thing to suggest but considering the whole "non-whites were the real slave owners!!111" stuff they have been posting lately....

The White victimhood narrative is getting more widespread.  That's worrying.  We also have our own "stab in the back" narrative with Trump now.  I don't like where this is going.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 12, 2021, 10:29:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 06:30:38 PM
If I was descended from fillibusterin Texian fake Catholics I probably would have mentioned that by now :lol:
I knew part of your family was from Baltimore/Washington, I didn't know if the other half had been on Texan soil since the Alamo. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 12, 2021, 10:31:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2021, 03:46:29 PM
We didn't have immigration laws until 1876 and that was just to keep the Chinese out.  I don't know what "spit on our countries tradition" means exactly, but immigrants did rock the boat quite a bit.  The tradition of the Orangemen marching through New York City was curtailed by the Catholic Irish.  Quite a few people died in that process.  No justice, no peace.

Yeah this meme is full of lies and meant to direct rage at current immigrants while pretending past ones were morally superior. And that is a charitable interpretation because it almost seems like it is full of racism sort of claiming past white immigrants were morally superior. That is kind of an awful thing to suggest but considering the whole "non-whites were the real slave owners!!111" stuff they have been posting lately....

The White victimhood narrative is getting more widespread.  That's worrying.  We also have our own "stab in the back" narrative with Trump now.  I don't like where this is going.
Other world leaders, like Bolsonaro, are taking notes.  He's already announced he will accept the vote... if there's no fraud against him. Wanna bet how bright the future for democracy is over there?  That's the US in a decade.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2021, 10:46:44 PM
While we may indeed be doomed but our future is not Brazil. Brazil always has been Brazil, but sometimes more Brazil-y than others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2021, 11:46:25 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/213078651_6365552443462194_8176801585217234458_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vzQpYbNw2j8AX-ckRX4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=85eac28851036de8f748fe2d7d9218d9&oe=60F235CA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 12, 2021, 11:53:00 PM
Good thing we have two then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 12, 2021, 11:55:49 PM
Why are the Holocaust Deniers being so quiet?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 13, 2021, 02:48:51 AM
That's a self own if I ever saw one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 13, 2021, 08:28:08 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 12, 2021, 11:53:00 PM
Good thing we have two then.

Right, but assuming that was posted by a Democrat supporter, in fairness, the Republicans are trying their best to stop Democrat supporters from voting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 13, 2021, 11:16:00 AM
See, that was almost certainly posted by a GOP supporter, but the narrative is there for anyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 13, 2021, 03:31:39 PM
So do people not understand WW2?  I get the feeling that a large number of people don't understand some of the most important stuff.  Stuff like how it started, what the belligerents wanted, how extremists came to power and how they radicalized their countries, and how the war was won and lost. I consider the Covid Crisis on a similar scale as WW2. During this whole covid thing I was struck by the selfishness of some people.  People who refused to wear masks, people who protested shutdown orders, people who come up with bizarre conspiracy theories concerning vaccines...  In the Second World War the people of the United States had to suffer all sorts of inconveniences (and they got off easy.  Just ask the Brits or the Russians).  Not just the draft, but rationing of food and fuel.  Black-outs and the no-strike pledge.  Taxes and shortages and scrap metal drives and war bonds.  The freedom of speech was curtailed and people were thrown in prison for sedition.  Do people just not know what was done on the Homefront?  It was really, really important.  Much more important than what ever silly shit George Patton was doing or whether American tanks were better than German ones.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 04:52:23 PM
There were also selfish assholes, misinformed dupes, and ignorant morons during WWII - in all countries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 13, 2021, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 04:52:23 PM
There were also selfish assholes, misinformed dupes, and ignorant morons during WWII - in all countries.


True, but we didn't let them have much of a say in the matter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 13, 2021, 04:57:27 PM
Not to mention that a lot of the misconceptions people have about ww2 today are the result of intentional propeganda campaigns during and after the war.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 05:02:49 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 13, 2021, 04:57:27 PM
Not to mention that a lot of the misconceptions people have about ww2 today are the result of intentional propeganda campaigns during and after the war.

Shows the lasting power of propaganda. No wonder people spread memes all over the place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maximus on July 13, 2021, 05:11:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 13, 2021, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 04:52:23 PM
There were also selfish assholes, misinformed dupes, and ignorant morons during WWII - in all countries.


True, but we didn't let them have much of a say in the matter.
I dunno, the US stayed out of the war for a third of it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 05:24:16 PM
Quote from: Maximus on July 13, 2021, 05:11:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 13, 2021, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 04:52:23 PM
There were also selfish assholes, misinformed dupes, and ignorant morons during WWII - in all countries.


True, but we didn't let them have much of a say in the matter.
I dunno, the US stayed out of the war for a third of it.

I'm not sure what your statement has to do with the statement you quoted.

I'd disagree with the statement quoted not because some countries stayed out of it for longer periods than others, but because we can identify selfish assholes, misinformed dupes, and ignorant morons who not only had a say, but were leaders of various countries, armies, etc.  The US staying out of the war for another six months wouldn't have made Monty any less of a selfish asshole, Petain any less of a misinformed dupe, nor Tojo less of an ignorant moron.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 05:36:55 PM
The joke was us staying out of the war all that time was evidence that those sorts of people had a large say in the matter. See? Righteous Canadian trash talk.

And Petain was in his mid-eighties in WWII but don't hold his youth and inexperience against him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 05:50:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 05:36:55 PM
The joke was us staying out of the war all that time was evidence that those sorts of people had a large say in the matter. See? Righteous Canadian trash talk.

And Petain was in his mid-eighties in WWII but don't hold his youth and inexperience against him.

The US staying out of the war was evidence that the bullshit French and British sabotage of a successful peace in 1919 had consequences.  WW1 ended with the British and French Empires more bloated than ever, and that went over poorly with the US public.  When France fell, though, the self-satisfied American public assumption that this was just "Europe being Europe like the last time" kinda fell apart, and awareness of the dangers posed by totalitarian regimes began to grow. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 05:51:57 PM
Oh, and Petain may have been old, but he was also misinformed about the chances of Nazi victory, and a dupe who considered the Nazis more honorable than the British.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 13, 2021, 07:01:24 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 13, 2021, 04:57:27 PM
Not to mention that a lot of the misconceptions people have about ww2 today are the result of intentional propeganda campaigns during and after the war.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 07:47:34 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 05:51:57 PM
Oh, and Petain may have been old, but he was also misinformed about the chances of Nazi victory, and a dupe who considered the Nazis more honorable than the British.

As he was a far right wing fascist sympathizer he was probably just following his heart. But come on, he could have done something truly stupid and entered the war on the Germans side.

The real dupes was our government who thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French. Yeah Darlan is totally who we should be working with. At least Petain had the excuse of being an octogenarian fascist. What was our excuse?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 07:47:34 PM
As he was a far right wing fascist sympathizer he was probably just following his heart. But come on, he could have done something truly stupid and entered the war on the Germans side.

The real dupes was our government who thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French. Yeah Darlan is totally who we should be working with. At least Petain had the excuse of being an octogenarian fascist. What was our excuse?

Petain was willing to enter the war n the Germans' side, but they didn't want that (they just wanted the use of French ports in Africa to supply the Afrika Korps, which they got). 

I have no idea why you believe that the US government "thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French."  I've read a lot about this war and the French role in it, and never saw any indication that what you claim was true.  Care to provide some sources?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 14, 2021, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 13, 2021, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2021, 04:52:23 PM
There were also selfish assholes, misinformed dupes, and ignorant morons during WWII - in all countries.


True, but we didn't let them have much of a say in the matter.
The leaders of the movements were jailed as soon as the countries entered war against Germany.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 16, 2021, 11:57:32 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCzzDhJn/am.jpg)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/201986092_1634276943442064_4589575844261403916_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Iu-sLsDcvaUAX_fE_eh&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9f6c6f97cf302a0218029a32c5656f50&oe=60F65E03)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 17, 2021, 12:22:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 07:47:34 PM
As he was a far right wing fascist sympathizer he was probably just following his heart. But come on, he could have done something truly stupid and entered the war on the Germans side.

The real dupes was our government who thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French. Yeah Darlan is totally who we should be working with. At least Petain had the excuse of being an octogenarian fascist. What was our excuse?

Petain was willing to enter the war n the Germans' side, but they didn't want that (they just wanted the use of French ports in Africa to supply the Afrika Korps, which they got). 

I have no idea why you believe that the US government "thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French."  I've read a lot about this war and the French role in it, and never saw any indication that what you claim was true.  Care to provide some sources?

The US definitely saw Vichy France as the legitimate government of France for way, way , wayyyyy too long. I'm not sure what your point is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 17, 2021, 02:26:28 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 17, 2021, 12:22:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 07:47:34 PM
As he was a far right wing fascist sympathizer he was probably just following his heart. But come on, he could have done something truly stupid and entered the war on the Germans side.

The real dupes was our government who thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French. Yeah Darlan is totally who we should be working with. At least Petain had the excuse of being an octogenarian fascist. What was our excuse?

Petain was willing to enter the war n the Germans' side, but they didn't want that (they just wanted the use of French ports in Africa to supply the Afrika Korps, which they got). 

I have no idea why you believe that the US government "thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French."  I've read a lot about this war and the French role in it, and never saw any indication that what you claim was true.  Care to provide some sources?

The US definitely saw Vichy France as the legitimate government of France for way, way , wayyyyy too long. I'm not sure what your point is.

The US, UK, Canada, Australia, the USSR, etc (and French historians, like Laurent Joly) definitely saw Vichy France as the successor state to Republican France because it was, so I'm not sure what your point is.  Did Canada "definitely [see] Vichy France as the legitimate government of France for way, way , wayyyyy too long" as well, or was it just the evol United States that did that and Canada was merely being a glowing ball of light?

My point was simply what i stated.  In case you just could not, for some reason, read the text of mine that you quoted, I will repeat it, using larger text size:
QuoteI have no idea why you believe that the US government "thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French."  I've read a lot about this war and the French role in it, and never saw any indication that what you claim was true.  Care to provide some sources?

There's never been any indication that I have seen that the US government thought Vichy was less authoritarian than the Free French.  It publicly opposed many of the Vichy government's policies, but maintained diplomatic relations so as to encourage the Vichy government to resist German attempts to compel Vichy to act more pre-Nazi than the armistice terms required.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 17, 2021, 03:22:17 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 16, 2021, 11:57:32 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCzzDhJn/am.jpg)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/201986092_1634276943442064_4589575844261403916_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Iu-sLsDcvaUAX_fE_eh&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9f6c6f97cf302a0218029a32c5656f50&oe=60F65E03)

Wtf are they talking about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 17, 2021, 05:54:16 AM
I want to know about vichy. Were they recognised?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 17, 2021, 09:44:11 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 17, 2021, 05:54:16 AM
I want to know about vichy. Were they recognised?

According to that fount of basic facts, wikipedia:

QuoteThe United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, sending Admiral William D. Leahy to France as ambassador. President Roosevelt and Secretary of State Cordell Hull hoped to use American influence to encourage those elements in the Vichy government opposed to military collaboration with Germany. The Americans also hoped to encourage Vichy to resist German war demands, such as for the fleet, air bases in French-mandated Syria or to move war supplies through French territories in North Africa. The essential American position was that France should take no action not explicitly required by the armistice terms that could adversely affect Allied efforts in the war. The Americans ended relations when Germany occupied all of France in late 1942.[6]

The American position towards Vichy France and de Gaulle was especially hesitant and inconsistent. Roosevelt disliked Charles de Gaulle, and agreed with Ambassador Leahy's view that he was an "apprentice dictator."[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Vichy_France
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 17, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 17, 2021, 02:26:28 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 17, 2021, 12:22:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2021, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2021, 07:47:34 PM
As he was a far right wing fascist sympathizer he was probably just following his heart. But come on, he could have done something truly stupid and entered the war on the Germans side.

The real dupes was our government who thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French. Yeah Darlan is totally who we should be working with. At least Petain had the excuse of being an octogenarian fascist. What was our excuse?

Petain was willing to enter the war n the Germans' side, but they didn't want that (they just wanted the use of French ports in Africa to supply the Afrika Korps, which they got). 

I have no idea why you believe that the US government "thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French."  I've read a lot about this war and the French role in it, and never saw any indication that what you claim was true.  Care to provide some sources?

The US definitely saw Vichy France as the legitimate government of France for way, way , wayyyyy too long. I'm not sure what your point is.

The US, UK, Canada, Australia, the USSR, etc (and French historians, like Laurent Joly) definitely saw Vichy France as the successor state to Republican France because it was, so I'm not sure what your point is.  Did Canada "definitely [see] Vichy France as the legitimate government of France for way, way , wayyyyy too long" as well, or was it just the evol United States that did that and Canada was merely being a glowing ball of light?

My point was simply what i stated.  In case you just could not, for some reason, read the text of mine that you quoted, I will repeat it, using larger text size:
QuoteI have no idea why you believe that the US government "thought Vichy was less authoritarian and more legitimate than the Free French."  I've read a lot about this war and the French role in it, and never saw any indication that what you claim was true.  Care to provide some sources?

There's never been any indication that I have seen that the US government thought Vichy was less authoritarian than the Free French.  It publicly opposed many of the Vichy government's policies, but maintained diplomatic relations so as to encourage the Vichy government to resist German attempts to compel Vichy to act more pre-Nazi than the armistice terms required.

k.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 18, 2021, 04:58:17 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/215655637_3103893419828552_6452271812427464259_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=ppuIbXoKBxYAX-Q1csH&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=186df10ce60ba8adbe2720a9f11598a0&oe=60F8371E)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/217772588_4815562698458265_2229012774924594097_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=2gPosJ11V04AX_bwaBU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0cf308049eeac4aa8b316b7b8fc37b48&oe=60F99629)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/185198318_4240256842723488_7236167777850014748_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=GA8w-HaW-L0AX_qcT83&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=295a1f1c34e6b30730513d032592471e&oe=60F908B6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 18, 2021, 11:36:22 AM
What is so dangerous?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 18, 2021, 11:43:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 18, 2021, 11:36:22 AM
What is so dangerous?

I think what is implied is since you can't see from the back if the driver is black, no black driver has ever been stopped because they were black.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 18, 2021, 11:57:23 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 18, 2021, 11:43:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 18, 2021, 11:36:22 AM
What is so dangerous?

I think what is implied is since you can't see from the back if the driver is black, no black driver has ever been stopped because they were black.

Look at the image above the one with the cars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 18, 2021, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 18, 2021, 11:36:22 AM
What is so dangerous?

I think this is in reference to having a door knocking campaign to raise awareness about Covid vaccines. "It" being Covid-19.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2021, 04:13:37 PM
No Lauren, that's not all I need to know about the Arizona audit, and that's the difference between us.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 18, 2021, 04:17:03 PM
Was it an audit or a movie?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 18, 2021, 05:04:05 PM
I am just surprised the only coverage of the Arizona Audit was a single video on Youtube.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 19, 2021, 12:12:28 AM
https://www.wnd.com/2021/07/stunning-report-vote-recount-1-county-60-error-rate/

QuoteStunning report: Vote recount in 1 county had 60% error rate

Results part of lawsuit over allegations of 2020 presidential election fraud

By Bob Unruh
Published July 14, 2021 at 8:35pm


There were 100 lawsuits over the vote count for the 2020 presidential election, and essentially none was considered on merits as court after court cited technicalities in letting stand the suspicious results of Joe Biden's victory.

But now investigations and audits may be showing what actually happened, and whether, in fact, Biden was elected.

The Gateway Pundit has posted an announcement from VoterGA which is charging that evidence "from public records" has revealed Fulton County's hand count audit was "riddled with massive errors and provable fraud."

The allegations arise from VoterGA's review of images of mail-in ballots that a judge ordered the county to make available.

TRENDING: South Africa shames U.S. Democrats by uniting against criminality

"The team's analysis revealed that 923 of 1439 mail-in ballot batch files contained votes incorrectly reported in Fulton's official November 3rd 2020 results," the report said. "These inaccuracies are due to discrepancies in votes for Donald Trump, Joe Biden and total votes cast compared to their reported audit totals for respective batches. Thus, the error reporting rate in Fulton's hand count audit is a whopping 60%."

Such discrepancies are significant, as Biden's victory is based on victories in six swing states, including Georgia. And in those swing states, Biden's margin of victory numbered in the few thousands.

VoterGA reported, "One type of error discovered involved duplicate results reporting for batches of ballots. The team found at least 36 batches of mail-in ballots with 4,255 total extra votes were redundantly added into Fulton Co. audit results for the November election. These illicit votes include 3,390 extra votes for Joe Biden, 865 extra votes for Donald Trump and 43 extra votes for Jo Jorgenson."

Then, too, the team "found 7 falsified audit tall sheets containing fabricated vote totals for their respective batches. For example, a batch containing 59 actual ballot images for Joe Biden, 42 for Donald Trump and 1 for Joe Jorgenson was reported as 100 for Biden and 0 for Trump."

And VoterGA explained the county still has declined to provide drop box transfer forms for thousands of ballots that provide chain of custody proof.

The organization said it is using the new information in an amended complaint that targets fraud in the 2020 election results.

The Gateway Pundit noted President Trump's reaction: "The news coming out of Georgia is beyond incredible. The hand recount in Fulton County was a total fraud! They stuffed the ballot box—and got caught. We will lose our country if this is allowed to stand."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 19, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
By all means, take it to court.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 19, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Yeah less talk more evidence if you have something. What the pattern seems to be is that they talk big, then produce nothing when given the opportunity to produce evidence, and then blame others for their failures.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on July 19, 2021, 01:27:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 19, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Yeah less talk more evidence if you have something. What the pattern seems to be is that they talk big, then produce nothing when given the opportunity to produce evidence, and then blame others for their failures.
Or claim that no one should honestly believe them when they get sued.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 20, 2021, 05:40:21 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/210517032_10208459842649351_249885437480621181_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=JFMHGRBu9Q4AX9zKKkx&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=695a6e9bb10ee37acace816fefeed56b&oe=60FBB963)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/220772534_10223151109023708_3194623653228942067_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=w0olFVw0z8oAX8F19Wi&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6ab1c6eeb4c91698583d7921f0abfa44&oe=60FB70BE)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/216868050_10159334037120270_2306498939891997553_n.png?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hXZ3JcCYU-oAX-8lShc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e0598d85a3f8f2e03a1b13b3e1ed4b44&oe=60FBD42F)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/190401827_3877331792379625_4187762389682620534_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sLM71ZJkd_4AX8R8daX&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e93da8ac622a48fe64d5198aa9e0bccf&oe=60FAD2C6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 20, 2021, 01:55:47 PM
Drivers licenses = Mark of the Beast
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 20, 2021, 07:01:41 PM
"Stop and think about this" because one of us should.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 20, 2021, 07:04:29 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 20, 2021, 01:55:47 PM
Drivers licenses = Mark of the Beast
Passports, too.  Open those borders!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2021, 01:12:14 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/221112866_10219026028057702_985595365553379704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=FIorjtHWft0AX_LZ5YT&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c9d3e329c768c6c940ec49547fbf6de2&oe=60FDBAB8)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/219004615_4203733653027203_5750365284011614615_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=yiZ2isvm6aIAX9_2zG5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2eb78acbfba9ff5ebcf3187f8775d903&oe=60FCECBC)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/201464818_5745385008835865_7368854489211393760_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=4EXKkx5wg1YAX8DjTqO&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5de340a4ec53393dfa267a93fa9c0e48&oe=60FDD379)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2021, 01:13:35 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qtt1fsbY/hft.jpg)

***

(https://i.postimg.cc/fLrXFFqz/glm.jpg)

***

(https://i.postimg.cc/tJnPH58h/imgr.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 21, 2021, 01:42:41 PM
Boomer 100
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2021, 03:16:25 PM
Teaching of the German language was banned in Missouri for several years...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 21, 2021, 07:41:13 PM
There were all of those German-American things, and then they got slapped down after some were revealed to have been Wilhelmine Germany front groups, and thus treasonous if they kept it up after the US entered WW1.

The Germans used to be the most vocal minority group about resisting assimilation.  But some appear to be even more ignorant today than their great-grandfathers were in 19917.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2021, 07:43:32 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/220487060_5253718304662086_5078975050854132323_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VwKZoalo9msAX9OVtUP&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cdde9809deab07d0de52b48bf4760090&oe=60FDA729)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 22, 2021, 08:15:02 AM
Is that Tokyo Rose?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 22, 2021, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 22, 2021, 08:15:02 AM
Is that Tokyo Rose?

No, that's Tokyo Tulip.  Tokyo Rose is a bit older.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2021, 10:32:32 AM
They both look like strawmen to me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 22, 2021, 12:22:06 PM
Is that what critical race theory is? Little kids are actually time travelers who created systems that existed centuries ago? I tell you some of the wacky pseudo-science that gets popular these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 22, 2021, 12:23:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2021, 10:32:32 AM
They both look like strawmen to me.
:unsure: When was the last time you visited an optometrist?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2021, 12:31:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2021, 12:22:06 PM
Is that what critical race theory is?

It is virtually the opposite of what is being ascribed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 22, 2021, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2021, 12:31:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2021, 12:22:06 PM
Is that what critical race theory is?

It is virtually the opposite of what is being ascribed.

Okay, so there's the academic theory of Critical Race Theory.  It posits (gross simplification incoming) that various systems can produce racist results, even without anyone intending to be racist.  It has some useful observations for sure (though often falls down in suggesting any remedies).

But then we have the wider umbrella of anti-racism training, diversity instructors, social media activists and the like.  In some of those the idea that white people (or 'whiteness') are responsible for the legacy of slavery is not uncommon.

Various conservative activists are absolutely straw-manning the term "Critical Race Theory".  But that's not to say there isn't some merit to some of their objections about, say, what kids are being taught in school about race.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 22, 2021, 01:01:58 PM
What is it you think kids are being taught in school.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 22, 2021, 01:16:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 22, 2021, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2021, 12:31:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 22, 2021, 12:22:06 PM
Is that what critical race theory is?

It is virtually the opposite of what is being ascribed.

Okay, so there's the academic theory of Critical Race Theory.  It posits (gross simplification incoming) that various systems can produce racist results, even without anyone intending to be racist.

Rather it shows that given a lot of overt racism previously, simply removing the active attempts to perpetuate that racism does not address the remaining effects, and that systems that are not on their surface racist, can in fact have outcomes that are very derminatenal on racial lines given the previous systems constructs that WERE informed by racism.

I don't even understand why this is considered complicated or academic. I am not surprised that it isn't obvious though - the examples of systemic racism I've seen were often quite surprising to me.

Quote

It has some useful observations for sure (though often falls down in suggesting any remedies).

It is an academic framework for understanding data and social systems. It does not "fall down" for not suggesting remedies, just like the theory of gravity doesn't "fall down" for not suggesting a remedy to that annoying problem of humans going SPLAT when they jump off a tall building beyond "stop doing that".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 22, 2021, 01:17:44 PM
If anyone would like to see a freaking *perfect* example of systemic racism and what critical race theory is talking about, listen to Malcolm Gladwell's podcasts on how fucked up the US News college rankings are....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 23, 2021, 05:10:57 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 22, 2021, 01:01:58 PM
What is it you think kids are being taught in school.

I'm curious as well. I don't have kids so I have no idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 23, 2021, 06:17:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s720x720/222929298_1923975411092633_999598040720729926_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=K09Rx8U_9wUAX-2v82R&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=41748120f328c9ac45a5461655165bc1&oe=610037B8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 23, 2021, 12:26:51 PM
They seem awfully obsessed with not feeling bad about slavery.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 23, 2021, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2021, 12:26:51 PM
They seem awfully obsessed with not feeling bad about slavery.

Didn't they just immigrate from Germany? Maybe white people in Germany have committed their own racial crimes, not an expert in German history and will have to check the tapes on that one, but they probably don't have much reason to feel the collective guilt of american slavery is on them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 23, 2021, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 23, 2021, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2021, 12:26:51 PM
They seem awfully obsessed with not feeling bad about slavery.

Didn't they just immigrate from Germany? Maybe white people in Germany have committed their own racial crimes, not an expert in German history and will have to check the tapes on that one, but they probably don't have much reason to feel the collective guilt of american slavery is on them.

Yeah I don't get that either. One would think Euro Immigrants could feel smug about that part...I mean ones from central and eastern Europe anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 23, 2021, 02:31:06 PM
It's kind of another version of the "All Live Matter!" idea.  In that, while being right/true...the reason behind a person making the point is in bad faith or comes from a bad motivation (that being usually to diminish or dismiss someone's legitimate grievance).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2021, 02:35:24 PM
I think All Lives Matter started out as a good faith effort at solidarity and was immediately blacklisted, and then became a marker of bad faith.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 23, 2021, 02:49:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2021, 02:35:24 PM
I think All Lives Matter started out as a good faith effort at solidarity and was immediately blacklisted, and then became a marker of bad faith.

Uhm, no. The very first time I remember seeing it it was to highlight that BLM was a black-above-others movement/slogan which of course was BS.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2021, 02:55:12 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 23, 2021, 02:49:27 PM
Uhm, no. The very first time I remember seeing it it was to highlight that BLM was a black-above-others movement/slogan which of course was BS.

The first time I saw it was in a different context.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 23, 2021, 02:56:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2021, 02:35:24 PM
I think All Lives Matter started out as a good faith effort at solidarity and was immediately blacklisted, and then became a marker of bad faith.

Do you have any evidence that supports this belief?  I've never seen All Lives Matter used except as a rebuttal to Black Lives Matter.  ALM is a mere truism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 23, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2021, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 23, 2021, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2021, 12:26:51 PM
They seem awfully obsessed with not feeling bad about slavery.

Didn't they just immigrate from Germany? Maybe white people in Germany have committed their own racial crimes, not an expert in German history and will have to check the tapes on that one, but they probably don't have much reason to feel the collective guilt of american slavery is on them.

Yeah I don't get that either. One would think Euro Immigrants could feel smug about that part...I mean ones from central and eastern Europe anyway.
Why should we be smug about it? Germany had large scale slavery as recently as 1945, probably worse than US slavery ever was. Not many black slaves in Germany though I guess, almost all were white.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 23, 2021, 03:00:00 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 23, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2021, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 23, 2021, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 23, 2021, 12:26:51 PM
They seem awfully obsessed with not feeling bad about slavery.

Didn't they just immigrate from Germany? Maybe white people in Germany have committed their own racial crimes, not an expert in German history and will have to check the tapes on that one, but they probably don't have much reason to feel the collective guilt of american slavery is on them.

Yeah I don't get that either. One would think Euro Immigrants could feel smug about that part...I mean ones from central and eastern Europe anyway.
Why should we be smug about it? Germany had large scale slavery as recently as 1945, probably worse than US slavery ever was. Not many black slaves in Germany though I guess, almost all were white.

Many of these German-American's ancestors came to the US in 1946-47, so that's after 1945.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 23, 2021, 03:15:30 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 23, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
Why should we be smug about it? Germany had large scale slavery as recently as 1945, probably worse than US slavery ever was. Not many black slaves in Germany though I guess, almost all were white.

Exactly. If anybody knows white people were once enslaved it would be Germans. Plus you, at least more recent immigrants anyway, had nothing to do with slavery in the Americas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 23, 2021, 05:12:07 PM
I do wonder to what extent this "black people had slaves too!!!" is born out of these nutters genuinely not understanding that other people fundamentally have a diffetent world view. They see every single thing as a competition and that by winning the atrocity Olympics black people can score points over them.

Aaaand to what extent they're just being purposefully obtuse and pretending not to get it to troll.

Quote
Uhm, no. The very first time I remember seeing it it was to highlight that BLM was a black-above-others movement/slogan which of course was BS.

All lives matter is just a less racist sounding pivot from white lives matter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 23, 2021, 05:12:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 23, 2021, 02:35:24 PM
I think All Lives Matter started out as a good faith effort at solidarity and was immediately blacklisted, and then became a marker of bad faith.

All lives matter started out in good faith?  Any support for that assertion?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 25, 2021, 12:35:31 AM
Well, I guess that's climate change and Covid taken care of. :)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/210371992_10218756238727984_5738886383557410179_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=RRjeuzjLx7IAX8rJV14&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=213edf566ca76ad987e69fbd5add0be4&oe=6120EB21)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 25, 2021, 06:53:40 AM
Does that really work?  It would be amazing if it did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 25, 2021, 07:29:50 AM
Are the more religious bits of the US the ones that tend to be hit by yearly tornados, hurricanes, etc....?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Liep on July 25, 2021, 07:44:43 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 25, 2021, 07:29:50 AM
Are the more religious bits of the US the ones that tend to be hit by yearly tornados, hurricanes, etc....?

Yes, legally God can only send newsletters to his subscribers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on July 25, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Quote from: Liep on July 25, 2021, 07:44:43 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 25, 2021, 07:29:50 AM
Are the more religious bits of the US the ones that tend to be hit by yearly tornados, hurricanes, etc....?

Yes, legally God can only send newsletters to his subscribers.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 25, 2021, 11:03:14 AM
I've never understood how their "God" works.  If there is a community of 51 sinners and 49 saints, the saints starve to death in the famine just like the sinners.  Might as well sin.

OTOH, if there is a community of 51 saints and 49 sinners, the sinners get just as much rain as the saints and so prosper like the saints do.  Might as well sin, if you can count the number of saints and ensure they number at least 50% +1.

Maybe their god should reconsider using WMD as his law enforcement method.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 25, 2021, 11:14:51 AM
OT's God is a genocidal bastard with huge self-confidence issues.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 25, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 25, 2021, 11:03:14 AM
I've never understood how their "God" works.  If there is a community of 51 sinners and 49 saints, the saints starve to death in the famine just like the sinners.  Might as well sin.

OTOH, if there is a community of 51 saints and 49 sinners, the sinners get just as much rain as the saints and so prosper like the saints do.  Might as well sin, if you can count the number of saints and ensure they number at least 50% +1.

Maybe their god should reconsider using WMD as his law enforcement method.


That is way, way, way off.  I thought everyone knew how this works, I mean their God comes with written instructions!  "This is note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 26, 2021, 02:16:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 25, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 25, 2021, 11:03:14 AM
I've never understood how their "God" works.  If there is a community of 51 sinners and 49 saints, the saints starve to death in the famine just like the sinners.  Might as well sin.

OTOH, if there is a community of 51 saints and 49 sinners, the sinners get just as much rain as the saints and so prosper like the saints do.  Might as well sin, if you can count the number of saints and ensure they number at least 50% +1.

Maybe their god should reconsider using WMD as his law enforcement method.


That is way, way, way off.  I thought everyone knew how this works, I mean their God comes with written instructions!  "This is note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"

Right, that must be why there has never been a disagreement over what the instruction manual means  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 26, 2021, 02:28:06 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gp8hkTB3/aclm.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 26, 2021, 02:30:33 PM
I'm shocked that kooks don't know history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 26, 2021, 02:39:32 PM
The Civil war wasn't about slavery... except when it  was. Ah, republicans (or I guess southern white people, which is pretty much the same thing :P )
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 26, 2021, 02:49:13 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 25, 2021, 07:29:50 AM
Are the more religious bits of the US the ones that tend to be hit by yearly tornados, hurricanes, etc....?

They always seem to miss the small print on that contract - the God of the Old Testament provides those services selectively to a particular group - who may not have always benefited from the attention.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 26, 2021, 03:08:58 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 26, 2021, 02:28:06 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gp8hkTB3/aclm.jpg)


Okay, this one is extremely disingenuous.  620,000 is the total number of deaths in the US civil war.  This number includes both blacks soldiers and civilians as well as confederate deaths.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 26, 2021, 04:00:32 PM
Well since today's Republicans are yesterday's Rebs it is hard for them to distinguish those fine details.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 26, 2021, 05:53:56 PM
Why are they showing a Confederate soldier as an illustration of how "they" died in the Civil War "in order to obtain freedom for the black slaves."  I mean, i know that the Lost Cause is a Big Lie, but do they expect ANYONE (other than fellow Republicans) to believe that Confederate soldiers were fighting against slavery?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 26, 2021, 05:58:21 PM
And 180,000 is the number of Blacks who served in the Union Army, not the number that died.

Modern scholarship (c. 2015) places the estimated total death toll from the war at 750,000, a modest increase from earlier estimates.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on July 26, 2021, 06:45:19 PM
"Ackshully, the civil war was fought because of tariffs. The North didn't care about slavery. Also, did you know that many blacks served in the Confederate army??? Makes you think."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 26, 2021, 08:25:16 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 26, 2021, 06:45:19 PM
"Ackshully, the civil war was fought because of tariffs. The North didn't care about slavery. Also, did you know that many blacks served in the Confederate army??? Makes you think."

Indeed.  The fact that every succession proclamation* cited slavery/abolition of slavery as the reason for succession means nothing to the modern Reb, because the modern Reb only cares about the fantasy history of the war.  I mean, we know a lot more today about what the Southerners of 1861 thought than they did.


* not all states issued one
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 26, 2021, 11:46:00 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/224728763_4194997673870585_3249088553233485826_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=OAgsovzGtRYAX_yeovO&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c5f8e27623bc48182c4f0824517c567a&oe=612339AB)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/217702767_202187351845637_8080383662648297040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=PjKhvZrv0AYAX8GC-fc&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4cb1cf42775971e64bd6e06c38dcbcec&oe=6103AFA8)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/204842728_4243281635695304_5058108660679162372_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=dFBGIN_kqjQAX-shxD6&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4f2d586476281b2a5c3d7148245ec9d4&oe=612668BD)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 26, 2021, 11:47:22 PM
Actually, Vermont and, I think, R.I. look pretty damn blue on this map. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 26, 2021, 11:49:07 PM
THERE ARE NO BLUE CITIES OR STATES, ONLY A BLUE COUNTRY.

Ha ha ha.  Suck on that Cletis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 26, 2021, 11:55:58 PM
Obviously this is just rhetoric. If the voting patterns were reversed between cities and countryside, and everything else the same, the GOP would whine that government should represent the people, not land. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 27, 2021, 02:28:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 26, 2021, 11:47:22 PM
Actually, Vermont and, I think, R.I. look pretty damn blue on this map. :P

Probably Hawaii too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 27, 2021, 02:38:47 AM
What election is that supposed to represent? :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 27, 2021, 04:33:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 27, 2021, 02:38:47 AM
What election is that supposed to represent? :huh:


It's an altered version of the 2016 map.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 27, 2021, 04:39:12 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 27, 2021, 04:33:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 27, 2021, 02:38:47 AM
What election is that supposed to represent? :huh:


It's an altered version of the 2016 map.

Really altered
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 27, 2021, 06:16:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 26, 2021, 11:55:58 PM
Obviously this is just rhetoric. If the voting patterns were reversed between cities and countryside, and everything else the same, the GOP would whine that government should represent the people, not land. :P


Quite a bit of the blue area is rural.  Along the banks of Mississippi and a band across the coastal south.  It corresponds to the old black belt.  I don't know why there is so much blue in New Mexico, but I suspect its Indian Reservation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 27, 2021, 10:47:09 AM
Quote
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/222559752_4329820257084719_8533196009251693191_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=4rtBgwH_Sm0AX_Gelnd&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dd27cc503f1432767b93bc7132582f64&oe=612532A1)

Marbie Torrez - Pipeliners for Trump

Respect begins with accepting that others will not accept your ideals.
I respect how you want to live your life, but I do not accept that you impose your ideas by manipulating the little ones.

"Please, won't somebody think of the children!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 27, 2021, 11:00:54 AM
So is this taken over from the Hungarian example?

There they went from never mentioning this "problem" to running a national referendum around the insufferable pressure of "organisations" trying to "popularise" homosexuality in schools in about a month.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 27, 2021, 11:03:32 AM
I assume "pipeliner" here is the definition at Urban Dictionary?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 27, 2021, 11:19:18 AM
I've no idea what this one is on about and can only guess from the rainbow shirt and it bring the rights usual style it's something about teh gays.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 27, 2021, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 27, 2021, 11:19:18 AM
I've no idea what this one is on about and can only guess from the rainbow shirt and it bring the rights usual style it's something about teh gays.

Evil dark-skinned homos with sharp fingernails are trying to recruit little children to the homo side and patriotic muscular caucasians are trying to stop them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 27, 2021, 11:25:08 AM
I think that might be an old Soviet poster...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 27, 2021, 11:36:27 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 27, 2021, 11:25:08 AM
I think that might be an old Soviet poster...

It is, apparently it was originally 'shopped by a Hungarian campaign.

Edit: For some reason I can't show the pic. Here's the link: https://pestibulvar.hu/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/0709-Legy-eber2-696x484.jpg (https://pestibulvar.hu/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/0709-Legy-eber2-696x484.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 27, 2021, 12:03:55 PM
Interestingly this was also shared by my oldest sis who is pro LGBTQ rights (well, minus the T, despite having a trans son) and has two gay sons; she normally shares pro-gay posts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 27, 2021, 12:20:12 PM
 :showoff: Hungary in the forefront of influencing far-right targeting of hate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 27, 2021, 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 26, 2021, 11:55:58 PM
Obviously this is just rhetoric. If the voting patterns were reversed between cities and countryside, and everything else the same, the GOP would whine that government should represent the people, not land. :P

Not so -the GOP is now a radical animal rights organization - critters, plants, even desert sand should have full representation in the federal govt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2021, 12:04:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/218464260_10216187522599976_4634813602138969080_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=wCaDzhFHASYAX_Z09Aj&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4c1ad7003ae80789d4f841a16dbc1532&oe=6127C83E)

Ah, the Olympic spirit. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DontSayBanana on July 28, 2021, 07:13:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 26, 2021, 11:49:07 PM
THERE ARE NO BLUE CITIES OR STATES, ONLY A BLUE COUNTRY.

Ha ha ha.  Suck on that Cletis.

Time to zoom in on those "red counties" to show the polling districts and give a quick lesson on disenfranchising voters gerrymandering. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on July 28, 2021, 07:21:43 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 28, 2021, 07:13:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 26, 2021, 11:49:07 PM
THERE ARE NO BLUE CITIES OR STATES, ONLY A BLUE COUNTRY.

Ha ha ha.  Suck on that Cletis.

Time to zoom in on those "red counties" to show the polling districts and give a quick lesson on disenfranchising voters gerrymandering. :contract:
I suggested that oerlaying the population density on one of those maps would show that the most people cast the most votes, and so it shouldn't be a surprise. I was told that it only showed that they were all election fraudsters because.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 28, 2021, 07:44:16 AM
Something like this?

(https://news.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/USElectorate_pop.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on July 28, 2021, 08:52:52 AM
Quote from: The Larch on July 28, 2021, 07:44:16 AM
Something like this?

(https://news.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/USElectorate_pop.jpg)
Yes.  It doesn't matter if more people live in those areas. If there are more votes cast there than in other places its because of election fraud.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2021, 12:01:00 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/226368088_375828480635536_182089555465806622_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=ZYk8sV86i4gAX_qIYOu&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4a1ed737c41e0ce37443b0cc518016a3&oe=6126CA57)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/101658633_10215683329946971_1624183784064244181_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ZCZ1eoT9QaUAX_VnK6Q&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=972bfdbac9c926db50bc2a9ef18e672c&oe=61288D5C)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/178103744_10159937992730676_8174430941456336764_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=yWWcgEiuhkUAX9kdQv-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=aa5133cfcb98881c27efc03105421a32&oe=612766A9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2021, 03:13:31 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/116379684_2603948773230184_7592259987604887924_n.png?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=5pcoM70Vzi0AX9zctMn&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=399d2f94581478958df0cc1037886947&oe=61290852)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/58619786_10155938547320800_6497242898357026816_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=z1lgNQ0rAmwAX_5fRfK&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8a6fe13d2ade803ce364e9501d176d32&oe=612A5825)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/200493894_830474224570664_6999578858932924257_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=HVCjFfuI004AX8n19Ij&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c4c18f75c2d742e42463a1ffe4bef56e&oe=61275595)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 29, 2021, 03:45:22 PM
#2 above has a point.  The idea that thousands of illegal immigrants may be tearing across America smuggling contraband soup scares the crap out of me.  I know that fascism is out with the PC crowd, but it's time to put the Soup Nazi on the case.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 29, 2021, 05:45:20 PM
Don't have families is the new family values.

But to be fair Americans aren't having kids and families so that truck owner should be happy
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 29, 2021, 06:13:30 PM
I don't understand the 1946 one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 29, 2021, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2021, 06:13:30 PM
I don't understand the 1946 one.

Some asinine comparison of the supposedly entitled youth of today to the tough embattled youth of yesteryear.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 30, 2021, 03:15:19 AM
The stuff about coddled modern youth and participation trophies and all that always strikes me as really shooting themselves in the foot with that being far more boomers than modern kids.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on July 30, 2021, 06:18:16 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 30, 2021, 03:15:19 AM
The stuff about coddled modern youth and participation trophies and all that always strikes me as really shooting themselves in the foot with that being far more boomers than modern kids.
Yerah, its not like the kids were demanding trophies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 30, 2021, 06:58:36 AM
I guess the truck driver makes a pro-choice argument here. Unusual for GOP.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 30, 2021, 07:24:23 AM
Quote from: Zanza on July 30, 2021, 06:58:36 AM
I guess the truck driver makes a pro-choice argument here. Unusual for GOP.

That's the thing. I feel like the extremists among the GOP want no abortions, are against sexual education in schools, and against contraceptives covered by health insurance. Either abstain from sex, and if you can't - suffer the consequences YOU WHORE.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 30, 2021, 08:23:57 AM
Sex is for married people.

We've talked about this before. They were a lot more for abortions when it only involved married women getting them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2021, 08:40:43 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 30, 2021, 08:23:57 AM
Sex is for married people.

We've talked about this before. They were a lot more for abortions when it only involved married women getting them.

You're talking about a situation that has never existed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 30, 2021, 09:04:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 30, 2021, 07:24:23 AM
Quote from: Zanza on July 30, 2021, 06:58:36 AM
I guess the truck driver makes a pro-choice argument here. Unusual for GOP.

That's the thing. I feel like the extremists among the GOP want no abortions, are against sexual education in schools, and against contraceptives covered by health insurance. Either abstain from sex, and if you can't - suffer the consequences YOU WHORE.
And once the baby is born, the mother and the baby are on their own. Paid parental leave or state healthcare for mothers and babies are obviously communism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 31, 2021, 10:28:17 AM
Didn't expect my sisters to put up a quote by Noam Chomsky, but here we are :lol:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/230034610_10165522364870201_3982645798234985746_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=sNy_x1tvrAUAX_i91Dg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b69c07781a67a3d807ba1c6998a05262&oe=6109F5D2)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/223717766_3025999434343750_602831019482522243_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nvZMYpf_LW4AX92Q897&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=60e5e439543f35300b215ac686fd611e&oe=610AA30A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 31, 2021, 10:37:30 AM
Well, Chomsky isn't arguing for a particular ideology, but rather for radicalism, or "shifting the Overton window" in current Languishian.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 31, 2021, 10:43:33 AM
Well, I suppose the entire two party system is covered by his quote and the "political debate" serves to perpetuate the current capitalist society where politics is run by big business and not people's interests.

I tried to find a source for the Ian Watson quote (the picture is a theater professor at a US university of that name), but have been unable to find one. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on July 31, 2021, 10:47:55 AM
Is the Watson quote about the "war on drugs"? 😉
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 31, 2021, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 31, 2021, 10:47:55 AM
Is the Watson quote about the "war on drugs"? 😉

I think it was more about the Trump Administration.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 31, 2021, 11:26:41 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/218799760_10165716907345494_5436740624206724838_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=dT9m7IntNQkAX-AT9Vv&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=182fe27c4e47f3f55bc5e2f6917a2a16&oe=610A5F79)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/116154971_10159102554544644_3977414123430640659_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=5dl66zUMnZEAX-v_Jrr&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5563692a6de19e87322b37b8c7a3e2e9&oe=612D7EC0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 31, 2021, 11:32:53 PM
WE'RE CONSPIRING AGAINST YOU CLETUS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 01, 2021, 12:41:35 AM
Was baby milk something there was a run on?
I do find it fitting that a product designed for a unfortunate minority but widely used by a much larger group of selfish arse holes would run low.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 01, 2021, 02:59:17 AM
And sometimes the invective over mask-selfishness negates itself, such as in this gem from CNN:

Quote"I did what I had to do," McCullough told CNN. "Now, these people who are making this selfish decision are going to make me suffer the consequences."

Sure, anti-maskers are whiny babies, but way to shoot your argument in the foot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 01, 2021, 03:51:40 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 01, 2021, 02:59:17 AM
And sometimes the invective over mask-selfishness negates itself, such as in this gem from CNN:

Quote"I did what I had to do," McCullough told CNN. "Now, these people who are making this selfish decision are going to make me suffer the consequences."

Sure, anti-maskers are whiny babies, but way to shoot your argument in the foot.

:huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 01, 2021, 08:40:46 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/219751482_4206964472673905_8407477349925504597_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=j48yiMfGVr4AX_fMzDo&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=cf5622310bbf15b091f65debf3195871&oe=612D6898)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 01, 2021, 03:44:03 PM
I complied, read it twice as instructed, and it ended.

Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 01, 2021, 04:02:43 PM
Now read it twice while standing on one leg and rubbing your stomach.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 01, 2021, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 01, 2021, 04:02:43 PM
Now read it twice while standing on one leg and rubbing your stomach.

You forgot patting his head.  It's the simultaneous patting and rubbing that is hard.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 02, 2021, 09:39:36 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 31, 2021, 10:37:30 AM
Well, Chomsky isn't arguing for a particular ideology, but rather for radicalism, or "shifting the Overton window" in current Languishian.  :P

Not so - his argument (in the text that quotation is lifted from) is that large corporations control and channel discourse for their own purpose.  He is not saying that discourse is being limited to a "centrist" viewpoint to eliminate both right and left alternatives equally; he is saying that is it limited to a corporatist viewpoint to exclude opinions about alternatives to capitalist organization and production.  He isn't saying that the problem with political discourse of American is insufficient opportunities to discuss the merits of fascism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 02, 2021, 10:18:58 AM
Well, sure, in the larger context, he has an ideology. The quote itself doesn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 02, 2021, 12:37:02 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/67641073_2490317304365476_6050881545877585920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6pNbg2AjJBIAX9KCM3L&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=137ed08c52ff97bd6285385a5b3424aa&oe=612E2CF5)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/219982479_10158185554482157_2796292162180851543_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=uQv3nox6DPYAX-kEzos&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5c267192d9abe79f1ae28c51bd711fff&oe=612D47C0)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/107381141_3380816428605308_3284803231284409592_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=m6H1-56Gpn4AX_WLv99&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=da87c808c1a74c4792697744199988a1&oe=612E6842)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 02, 2021, 02:26:58 PM
How prescient to note the creation of fear by the Republicans ("they stole the election!") and the corresponding meaningless ritual of tuning in to watch Tucker Carlson.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 02, 2021, 02:29:22 PM
I feel entitled to free weird BS from Facebook feeds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on August 04, 2021, 02:15:49 PM
Not on FB, but rather, on Twitter, about Facebook, from @Laura Edelson:

Quote
This evening, Facebook suspended my Facebook account and the accounts of several people associated with Cybersecurity for Democracy, our team at NYU. This has the effect of cutting off our access to Facebook's Ad Library data, as well as Crowdtangle.

Over the last several years, we've used this access to uncover systemic flaws in the Facebook Ad Library, identify misinformation in political ads including many sowing distrust in our election system, and to study Facebook's apparent amplification of partisan misinformation.

By suspending our accounts, Facebook has effectively ended all this work. Facebook has also effectively cut off access to more than two dozen other researchers and journalists who get access to Facebook data through our project, 3/4

including our work measuring vaccine misinformation with the Virality Project and many other partners who rely on our data.

The work our team does to make data about disinformation on Facebook transparent is vital to a healthy internet and a healthy democracy. 4/4

This is NYU's Cybersecurity for Democracy project: https://cybersecurityfordemocracy.org/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 04, 2021, 03:10:13 PM
You are entitled to life - as narrowly defined as possible.  So don't even think about access to the health care necessary to have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 04, 2021, 03:16:51 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 04, 2021, 02:15:49 PM
Not on FB, but rather, on Twitter, about Facebook, from @Laura Edelson:

Quote
This evening, Facebook suspended my Facebook account and the accounts of several people associated with Cybersecurity for Democracy, our team at NYU. This has the effect of cutting off our access to Facebook's Ad Library data, as well as Crowdtangle.

Over the last several years, we've used this access to uncover systemic flaws in the Facebook Ad Library, identify misinformation in political ads including many sowing distrust in our election system, and to study Facebook's apparent amplification of partisan misinformation.

By suspending our accounts, Facebook has effectively ended all this work. Facebook has also effectively cut off access to more than two dozen other researchers and journalists who get access to Facebook data through our project, 3/4

including our work measuring vaccine misinformation with the Virality Project and many other partners who rely on our data.

The work our team does to make data about disinformation on Facebook transparent is vital to a healthy internet and a healthy democracy. 4/4

This is NYU's Cybersecurity for Democracy project: https://cybersecurityfordemocracy.org/

LOL wacky stuff indeed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 04, 2021, 11:54:47 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/67311589_2641500399196365_3399204806462537728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=BSWU2RQ77F0AX8UMqUb&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ce53b2d93041bf90cfeec3bb8f4b7497&oe=613098FC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 04, 2021, 11:56:51 PM
 :zzz Lame
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on August 05, 2021, 12:03:38 AM
If we give it some time, I am sure someone will be along to explain how that actually makes perfectly good sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2021, 12:22:10 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 02, 2021, 12:37:02 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/67641073_2490317304365476_6050881545877585920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6pNbg2AjJBIAX9KCM3L&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=137ed08c52ff97bd6285385a5b3424aa&oe=612E2CF5)

Deserving has nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2021, 12:29:31 AM
Sure it does, or people wouldn't talk about the right to affordable health care, the right to affordable housing, etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2021, 12:35:06 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2021, 12:29:31 AM
Sure it does, or people wouldn't talk about the right to affordable health care, the right to affordable housing, etc.

I can claim a right to anything I like, but if we do something it is because there is a social benefit to doing it. Why did we decide freedom of religion was a right? Because we had just spent centuries murdering each other and decided things worked better when it was a right.

Same with things like public education. We do it because society works shittier without it not because every person deserves it somehow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2021, 12:37:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2021, 12:35:06 AM
I can claim a right to anything I like, but if we do something it is because there is a social benefit to doing it. Why did we decide freedom of religion was a right? Because we had just spent centuries murdering each other and decided things worked better when it was a right.

Same with things like public education. We do it because society works shittier without it not because every person deserves it somehow.

We do everything we do because there are enough votes to do it.  Each person has their own reasons for why they support it or don't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 05, 2021, 02:36:00 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 04, 2021, 02:15:49 PM
Not on FB, but rather, on Twitter, about Facebook, from @Laura Edelson:

Quote
This evening, Facebook suspended my Facebook account and the accounts of several people associated with Cybersecurity for Democracy, our team at NYU. This has the effect of cutting off our access to Facebook's Ad Library data, as well as Crowdtangle.

Over the last several years, we've used this access to uncover systemic flaws in the Facebook Ad Library, identify misinformation in political ads including many sowing distrust in our election system, and to study Facebook's apparent amplification of partisan misinformation.

By suspending our accounts, Facebook has effectively ended all this work. Facebook has also effectively cut off access to more than two dozen other researchers and journalists who get access to Facebook data through our project, 3/4

including our work measuring vaccine misinformation with the Virality Project and many other partners who rely on our data.

The work our team does to make data about disinformation on Facebook transparent is vital to a healthy internet and a healthy democracy. 4/4

This is NYU's Cybersecurity for Democracy project: https://cybersecurityfordemocracy.org/

On the surface this sounds fine and worth being concerned about.
But I know nothing of this woman or the project.
It's one of those "the truth is fake news when it's anti Conservative" projects?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 05, 2021, 03:01:32 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 05, 2021, 02:36:00 AM
On the surface this sounds fine and worth being concerned about.
But I know nothing of this woman or the project.
It's one of those "the truth is fake news when it's anti Conservative" projects?

If you clicked on Oex's link, you would see that the project is the opposite of the one you suppose it is.
QuoteSocial media platforms are vulnerable to social trust attacks that undermine democracy. Before the 2020 U.S. elections, for example, Facebook was flooded with paid ads that spread emotional and false messages about the safety of voting systems. After the election, polling data showed that millions of Americans believed that election fraud had occurred on a massive scale and resulted in the theft of the election. This is just one example of how inaccurate information can be weaponized online and is threatening democracies globally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 05, 2021, 03:30:10 AM
My assumption was it was legit.
I was wondering why it's posted in here though. If it was something dodgy it'd be a folly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 05, 2021, 11:10:05 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2021, 12:37:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2021, 12:35:06 AM
I can claim a right to anything I like, but if we do something it is because there is a social benefit to doing it. Why did we decide freedom of religion was a right? Because we had just spent centuries murdering each other and decided things worked better when it was a right.

Same with things like public education. We do it because society works shittier without it not because every person deserves it somehow.

We do everything we do because there are enough votes to do it.  Each person has their own reasons for why they support it or don't.

Ok Timmay
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2021, 12:37:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2021, 12:35:06 AM
I can claim a right to anything I like, but if we do something it is because there is a social benefit to doing it. Why did we decide freedom of religion was a right? Because we had just spent centuries murdering each other and decided things worked better when it was a right.

Same with things like public education. We do it because society works shittier without it not because every person deserves it somehow.

We do everything we do because there are enough votes to do it.  Each person has their own reasons for why they support it or don't.

Well of course. But getting everybody what they deserve rarely factors into it, especially as these kinds of universal programs go to everybody: both the sinners and the saints.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2021, 04:18:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
Well of course. But getting everybody what they deserve rarely factors into it, especially as these kinds of universal programs go to everybody: both the sinners and the saints.

You and I are parsing "deserve" somewhat differently.

You're using it in the sense of if you are a good boy or girl then you deserve a present from Santa.

I'm using it in the sense of a basic human right, or a God given right.  Like I said before with a right to health care.  That has nothing to do with whether you've been naughty or nice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 06, 2021, 11:41:23 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/225250253_10226251271008568_7665995193320454900_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=2QmRmqmuH9cAX_x99Hr&_nc_oc=AQkhkPFraXTOxNmpk2qqb9TiSbqgRQdm9eLqSTmJhpp34vl3tobsVZM-45vS46aGCMs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5edef25279e5de78a690f69122415e5c&oe=613279E1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 06, 2021, 11:52:12 AM
So police never ask for ID there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 06, 2021, 12:00:26 PM
Is that the US?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 06, 2021, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 06, 2021, 11:52:12 AM
So police never ask for ID there?

I've seen plenty TV and movie cops ask for "license and registration" on traffic stops, so ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 06, 2021, 12:34:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 06, 2021, 11:41:23 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/225250253_10226251271008568_7665995193320454900_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=2QmRmqmuH9cAX_x99Hr&_nc_oc=AQkhkPFraXTOxNmpk2qqb9TiSbqgRQdm9eLqSTmJhpp34vl3tobsVZM-45vS46aGCMs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5edef25279e5de78a690f69122415e5c&oe=613279E1)

Glad your sisters came around and now oppose voter ID laws.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 06, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 06, 2021, 12:34:33 PM
Glad your sisters came around and now oppose voter ID laws.

I am frankly surprised they are so in favor of immigration and want open borders.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 06, 2021, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 06, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 06, 2021, 12:34:33 PM
Glad your sisters came around and now oppose voter ID laws.

I am frankly surprised they are so in favor of immigration and want open borders.

You may be misinterpreting the meme. You are assuming they intend to convey it is the beginning of something negative, but that may be an unwarranted assumption.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 06, 2021, 12:47:46 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 06, 2021, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 06, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 06, 2021, 12:34:33 PM
Glad your sisters came around and now oppose voter ID laws.

I am frankly surprised they are so in favor of immigration and want open borders.

You may be misinterpreting the meme. You are assuming they intend to convey it is the beginning of something negative, but that may be an unwarranted assumption.

This is just the beginning! Of something awesome! :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Neil on August 06, 2021, 01:10:02 PM
I accepted fifteen years of Facebook friend requests last month, having not logged in for quite some time. 

Browsing around, I have to say that I'm struggling to see what the appeal is.  I mean, it's nice to be able to stay in touch with people through things like Messenger, but most of the content that they suggest for me are comics about elderly people struggling with the modern world, or pictures of pets.  Does the algorithm think I'm an elderly man or something? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 06, 2021, 01:13:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 06, 2021, 12:00:26 PM
Is that the US?
Close, that's Russia.  Surprisingly they actually did have a strictly enforced lockdown regime for a while.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 06, 2021, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 06, 2021, 01:13:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 06, 2021, 12:00:26 PM
Is that the US?
Close, that's Russia.  Surprisingly they actually did have a strictly enforced lockdown regime for a while.

So they are warning us of authoritarianism in Russia eh? This warning comes 500 years too late.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 06, 2021, 01:29:01 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 06, 2021, 01:10:02 PM
I accepted fifteen years of Facebook friend requests last month, having not logged in for quite some time. 

Browsing around, I have to say that I'm struggling to see what the appeal is.  I mean, it's nice to be able to stay in touch with people through things like Messenger, but most of the content that they suggest for me are comics about elderly people struggling with the modern world, or pictures of pets.  Does the algorithm think I'm an elderly man or something?

Who the fuck are you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 06, 2021, 01:41:09 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 06, 2021, 01:10:02 PM
I accepted fifteen years of Facebook friend requests last month, having not logged in for quite some time. 

Browsing around, I have to say that I'm struggling to see what the appeal is.  I mean, it's nice to be able to stay in touch with people through things like Messenger, but most of the content that they suggest for me are comics about elderly people struggling with the modern world, or pictures of pets.  Does the algorithm think I'm an elderly man or something?

The appeal of Facebook is to catch up on news from more distant family and friends who you still want to keep up with, but are unlikely to actually pick up the phone and call on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Neil on August 06, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 06, 2021, 01:41:09 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 06, 2021, 01:10:02 PM
I accepted fifteen years of Facebook friend requests last month, having not logged in for quite some time. 

Browsing around, I have to say that I'm struggling to see what the appeal is.  I mean, it's nice to be able to stay in touch with people through things like Messenger, but most of the content that they suggest for me are comics about elderly people struggling with the modern world, or pictures of pets.  Does the algorithm think I'm an elderly man or something?

The appeal of Facebook is to catch up on news from more distant family and friends who you still want to keep up with, but are unlikely to actually pick up the phone and call on a regular basis.
Yeah, that had been a task that I had traditionally let others handle.  Obviously I'm making adjustments now, and I don't know how I'm going to keep all this stuff straight.  I don't really have a mind for those little personal details.  Or maybe I do, but I've always used it for other things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on August 06, 2021, 01:52:15 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 06, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 06, 2021, 01:41:09 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 06, 2021, 01:10:02 PM
I accepted fifteen years of Facebook friend requests last month, having not logged in for quite some time. 

Browsing around, I have to say that I'm struggling to see what the appeal is.  I mean, it's nice to be able to stay in touch with people through things like Messenger, but most of the content that they suggest for me are comics about elderly people struggling with the modern world, or pictures of pets.  Does the algorithm think I'm an elderly man or something?

The appeal of Facebook is to catch up on news from more distant family and friends who you still want to keep up with, but are unlikely to actually pick up the phone and call on a regular basis.
Yeah, that had been a task that I had traditionally let others handle.  Obviously I'm making adjustments now, and I don't know how I'm going to keep all this stuff straight.  I don't really have a mind for those little personal details.  Or maybe I do, but I've always used it for other things.

Yeah, your current news is the kind of thing that Facebook can be useful for.  Obviously there's people you'd tell in person, but a simple post on Facebook can save you from making dozens if not hundreds of phone calls / letters.

Plus the pet pictures.  I've realized I'm a sucker for pet pictures.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Neil on August 06, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 06, 2021, 01:52:15 PM
Yeah, your current news is the kind of thing that Facebook can be useful for.  Obviously there's people you'd tell in person, but a simple post on Facebook can save you from making dozens if not hundreds of phone calls / letters.

Plus the pet pictures.  I've realized I'm a sucker for pet pictures.
I found that I mostly delegated that, as I wasn't really up to communicating.  Same with funeral planning.  I was making high level decisions and paying bills, but most of the work and communication was carried out by my sister-in-laws and my sister. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 06, 2021, 07:30:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 06, 2021, 01:10:02 PMDoes the algorithm think I'm an elderly man or something?
more like a living dead, in your case? :P

welcome back!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 06, 2021, 07:37:32 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 06, 2021, 01:13:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 06, 2021, 12:00:26 PM
Is that the US?
Close, that's Russia.  Surprisingly they actually did have a strictly enforced lockdown regime for a while.


That's what I thought.  Unshanka's aren't common headgear for US police.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 07, 2021, 12:03:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s640x640/123729740_10157467708056861_880839981995685030_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_36-AMQMdrQAX9bzDvz&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=89af906bf4092c1481cd413075b3b9d7&oe=61327AEF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 07, 2021, 10:19:59 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/50805273_2501354476573186_2524441567381422080_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=KJSB3F99xZwAX8M4Uq0&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e5be50f504df6870aa52fac75b613a98&oe=6133BB66)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Rogers

QuoteThis quote appears frequently[13][14][15] on the Internet and is often attributed to Rogers with an incorrect date of 1931. In fact, the quotation is part of a longer sermon by Rogers from 1984 in a larger series titled God's Way to Health, Wealth and Wisdom (CDA107),[16] but it also appears as a passage in Rogers' 1996 work Ten Secrets for a Successful Family stating that "by and large our young people do not know either the importance or the value of honest labor".[17]

Rogers did not originate the quote at all. In fact, he did not claim to have originated it. Instead, he was citing almost verbatim anti-Soviet propaganda that had circulated in many magazines in the early 1960s.[18] The quote appeared before that in the Congressional Record of 1958, where it was appended to the record by U.S. Senator George Aiken of Vermont. Aiken had taken the words from Senator James Eastland of Mississippi, who had said them in his address at the Illinois Agricultural Association's annual meeting on November 13, 1957.[19] They have also been attributed to Gerald L. K. Smith, who had written them in his magazine, The Cross and the Flag.[20] Since the quote was attributed to Rogers in 2009, it has been regularly attributed to him; however, Rogers was essentially quoting Eastland or Smith at the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 07, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
Gerald L.K. Smith was a Nazi...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 07, 2021, 11:06:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 07, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
Gerald L.K. Smith was a Nazi...

Not like James Eastland was better.

"I have no prejudice in my heart, but the white race is the superior race and the Negro race an inferior race and the races must be kept separate by law."

On Brown v. Board of Education: "On May 17, 1954, the Constitution of the United States was destroyed because of the Supreme Court's decision. You are not obliged to obey the decisions of any court which are plainly fraudulent sociological considerations." and "The Southern institution of racial segregation or racial separation was the correct, self-evident truth which arose from the chaos and confusion of the Reconstruction period. Separation promotes racial harmony. It permits each race to follow its own pursuits, and its own civilization. Segregation is not discrimination ... Mr. President, it is the law of nature, it is the law of God, that every race has both the right and the duty to perpetuate itself. All free men have the right to associate exclusively with members of their own race, free from governmental interference, if they so desire."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 08, 2021, 11:37:19 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/230012852_339559404491946_5418564100030791169_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=5QiegieQBucAX-ScPeE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6a017bfe41c956c00c49c616d4912f17&oe=611595BC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 09, 2021, 12:18:15 AM
Imagine if doing a round of Chemo massively reduced your chance of ever getting cancer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 09, 2021, 12:57:49 AM
I am not sure how to just incase, nor whether just incasing is good or bad to these people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 09, 2021, 01:21:35 AM
The opposite actually exists - get the HPV vaccine and you have a much reduced risk of cancer.

But I guess not for the anti-vax idiots.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 09, 2021, 02:57:20 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 09, 2021, 12:57:49 AM
I am not sure how to just incase, nor whether just incasing is good or bad to these people.

I love the obligatory spelling/grammar mistakes in these "memes".  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 09, 2021, 11:54:23 AM
Imagine if every combat death in US history could have been avoided by a simple and safe injection that rendered the troops invulnerable.  What would we think about people who did everything they could to prevent and suppress the use of that treatment?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 09, 2021, 01:12:03 PM
Amusing:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1424237044331646978

Maybe not so for the mother :D
A 2 years old toddler ran on the soccer field, with his mom trailling behind to catch him.  :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 09, 2021, 02:12:10 PM
Impressive speed by the baby, and impressive tackling by the mom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 09, 2021, 05:27:56 PM
Something smells off there. How on earth would a two year old get through the barriers and have that much of a headstart?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2021, 05:45:31 PM
They've got wheels.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on August 09, 2021, 05:50:45 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 09, 2021, 05:27:56 PM
Something smells off there. How on earth would a two year old get through the barriers and have that much of a headstart?

Further down the thread (https://twitter.com/GeoffONeil/status/1424425739084988422 (https://twitter.com/GeoffONeil/status/1424425739084988422)) you can see the scene at ground level and it shows that there's only a really flimsy barrier between the seats and the pitch.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on August 10, 2021, 05:51:40 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 09, 2021, 05:27:56 PM
Something smells off there. How on earth would a two year old get through the barriers and have that much of a headstart?

You will soon find out how fast they can be.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 10, 2021, 10:22:54 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 09, 2021, 05:27:56 PM
Something smells off there. How on earth would a two year old get through the barriers and have that much of a headstart?

Because a two year old is small and fast.  If you look a way for just a second a kid can get into all sorts of trouble.  Kids that age are exhausting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on August 10, 2021, 01:09:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 10, 2021, 10:22:54 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 09, 2021, 05:27:56 PM
Something smells off there. How on earth would a two year old get through the barriers and have that much of a headstart?

Because a two year old is small and fast.  If you look a way for just a second a kid can get into all sorts of trouble.  Kids that age are exhausting.

Heh I used a halter on mine when out walking near traffic - at that age, kids seem perversely set on suicide. They can run like greased lightning and will dart out into traffic without a qualm.

People would make funny remarks about keeping a kid on a leash - much preferable to suffering the anxiety of not having them under control.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on August 10, 2021, 02:31:42 PM
(https://i.redd.it/a16tcxr5dgg71.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 10, 2021, 02:34:07 PM
Candace Owens has repeatedly proven that she is a stupid woman.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 10, 2021, 02:34:45 PM
Ah, yes, banks, the famous standard bearers of communism
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 10, 2021, 02:35:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 10, 2021, 02:34:07 PM
Candace Owens has repeatedly proven that she is a stupid woman.

But apparently clever.  Conspiracy can work pretty well when it is used to explain a very real problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 10, 2021, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 10, 2021, 02:34:45 PM
Ah, yes, banks, the famous standard bearers of communism

Anything besides anarchy is considered socialistic or communistic to some on the populist side of the right. So keep that in mind when they start saying weird things like that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 10, 2021, 02:51:29 PM
This is a special kind of stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 10, 2021, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 10, 2021, 02:34:07 PM
Candace Owens has repeatedly proven that she is a stupid woman.

I disagree there. She's carved out a very nice career for herself dancing for the stupid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 10, 2021, 04:56:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 10, 2021, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 10, 2021, 02:34:45 PM
Ah, yes, banks, the famous standard bearers of communism

Anything besides anarchy is considered socialistic or communistic to some on the populist side of the right. So keep that in mind when they start saying weird things like that.

I wonder what they think of social anarchists
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 10, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 10, 2021, 02:34:07 PM
Candace Owens has repeatedly proven that she is a stupid woman.

A certain kind of stupid.

Hardly the first one to join the "international bankers" and socialism in one conspiracy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 11, 2021, 11:48:21 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/189381421_5942772119066306_1154712836904733340_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=hEVhChAaH8AAX_Es-qu&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b5649368f3b9b173f67d2c9729ede84c&oe=613B0768)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/104984794_10223486361892760_961314016757083517_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=l0-gehb0UUoAX-_DzT-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5ba7b20a29cb9f8d3cfacc43b6b9e022&oe=613B57F3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 12, 2021, 07:16:15 AM
Was attacking cops legal before?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 12, 2021, 07:23:08 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 12, 2021, 07:16:15 AM
Was attacking cops legal before?  :huh:

A hate Crime is punished more severely than a normal crime.  Adding lots of categories to hate crimes weakens the entire concept, which is what hate criminals in Texas are trying to do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2021, 07:33:13 AM
Is that a pro drug legalization meme there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2021, 10:44:16 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1VXR48w/fbs.jpg)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s960x960/169582507_3528944473872450_913440133960468310_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4OYeK2TqFjUAX-1vUXe&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1d38241d1044cb82b9935f2a1c403b05&oe=613ADC15)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2021, 10:45:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2021, 07:33:13 AM
Is that a pro drug legalization meme there?

I assume it's about the completely uncontrolled influx of illegal immigrants since Biden took office. Based on my sisters' timelines I would assume you Texans should be outnumbered 10-1 by illegals at this point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on August 12, 2021, 11:18:15 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 10, 2021, 02:34:45 PM
Ah, yes, banks, the famous standard bearers of communism
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 12, 2021, 01:00:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 12, 2021, 10:44:16 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1VXR48w/fbs.jpg)



I strongly suspect that that the prayer rally is "Patriot Prayer" a Neo-Nazi outfit with strong ties to the police.  So Blue Lives Matter unless they go after Nazis then they become "Brown shirts".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2021, 02:38:54 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXbctrtM/dsfms.jpg)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/228207122_10161810128547837_1370004723311441900_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=li5rYreOyfYAX8-CLVl&_nc_oc=AQnZzdL4N71YOIpwtPvHVHXucAasqw_4pcfHm8QMwisU0IbctI2mnH0UlJYD0g_byM8&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=809a66741c6e7c078a5bceb351f8e1ea&oe=613C58B1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2021, 02:41:20 PM
You mean like a passport or green card?

I continue to admire your family's love of open borders.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on August 12, 2021, 02:54:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 12, 2021, 10:44:16 AM


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s960x960/169582507_3528944473872450_913440133960468310_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4OYeK2TqFjUAX-1vUXe&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1d38241d1044cb82b9935f2a1c403b05&oe=613ADC15)

Today:
No shoes, no service.
Tomorrow:
No shirt, no service.
Someday soon:
No pants, no service

Wake up sheeple!  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 12, 2021, 03:40:33 PM
A value beer Isle?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on August 12, 2021, 03:43:29 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 12, 2021, 03:40:33 PM
A value beer Isle?
where poors go to get drunk :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on August 12, 2021, 03:52:20 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 12, 2021, 02:54:16 PM

Today:
No shoes, no service.
Tomorrow:
No shirt, no service.
Someday soon:
No pants, no service

Wake up sheeple!  :mad:

How are we expected to get properly serviced wearing pants?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 14, 2021, 06:43:54 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/XJfJNXGZ/witsc.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 14, 2021, 01:12:15 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/219314530_10225335043658613_714282138973296657_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=kcOE2BoTz2MAX8Ukb1D&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3daa2386159c882163945dc6434cbfee&oe=613D8474)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/234856076_10220963588022914_7005453133831753645_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=e9IS550nDq4AX8ETNqi&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=75b6d7c707908adb292a7cf296a3760d&oe=613F18EC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 15, 2021, 01:09:23 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/235261500_1940462119443962_2953227188737577246_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ciYwdSkZRrgAX-hf-G2&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=05c6f9ce4deb3623762f82046652ceea&oe=611E5307)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 15, 2021, 08:17:07 AM
And the award for the dumbest take on mask mandates goes to ...


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s1080x2048/235867626_4249475848422767_3958758427113168988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=l8CE6wOfLxwAX-PjXaz&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=53b12ec9aea08c4eb4b501f1ebec74d8&oe=613E8046)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 15, 2021, 10:59:13 AM
I don't get that. Is it supposed to be a joke or is it meant earnestly?   Because everyone carrying guns would likely lead to Mad Max times.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2021, 11:06:22 AM
Even if guns actually did reduce crime that equivalency still would be false.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 15, 2021, 11:23:57 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 15, 2021, 10:59:13 AM
I don't get that. Is it supposed to be a joke or is it meant earnestly?   Because everyone carrying guns would likely lead to Mad Max times.

I assume it's a take on masks. Exchange "carry guns" with "wear masks" or "get vaccinated" in the post. Fits in well with my sister's anti-mask/vaccination posts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 16, 2021, 09:41:07 AM
The mandate to wear clothes in public is a dictatorial infringement on my freedoms.  Not wearing clothes is a personal choice in which the government has to no right to interfere with just because it might disturb other people.  Now please excuse me while I burn these American flags to keep warm.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2021, 11:15:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/191600110_10158616906188583_6888552799636601978_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=dZV2mwlfjXMAX8bqbo9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=80ccb4008fd7c6103b00d5417d3755c1&oe=613EFA9E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 16, 2021, 11:41:13 AM
Peace and normalcy? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2021, 11:48:18 AM
Investments in infrastructure? Something Trump himself promised to do but never did?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2021, 11:51:46 AM
IF we extend Rob's logic it *is* logical to hate Trump.  ^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 16, 2021, 12:12:12 PM
Man, that Trump fella must be a seriously awful person if so many people are willing to take what is happening to America now over him.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2021, 12:23:13 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?

Nothing that hasn't already been going on for a long time now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 16, 2021, 12:25:16 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?
Something which nobody in their right mind can "support".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 16, 2021, 12:34:28 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?

Some old jerkoff in Palm Beach is mucking around with the Republican Party.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 16, 2021, 12:35:15 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?

A long national nightmare of peace and prosperity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on August 16, 2021, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 16, 2021, 12:35:15 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?

A long national nightmare of peace and prosperity.

Oh hod, we barely survived this in the late 90s.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 16, 2021, 03:02:43 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 16, 2021, 12:35:15 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?

A long national nightmare of peace and prosperity.

Oh hod, we barely survived this in the late 90s.

https://www.theonion.com/bush-our-long-national-nightmare-of-peace-and-prosperi-1819565882 (https://www.theonion.com/bush-our-long-national-nightmare-of-peace-and-prosperi-1819565882)  Best Onion article ever.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2021, 03:26:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 16, 2021, 03:02:43 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 16, 2021, 12:35:15 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?

A long national nightmare of peace and prosperity.

Oh hod, we barely survived this in the late 90s.

https://www.theonion.com/bush-our-long-national-nightmare-of-peace-and-prosperi-1819565882 (https://www.theonion.com/bush-our-long-national-nightmare-of-peace-and-prosperi-1819565882)  Best Onion article ever.

Oh man.

QuoteBush concluded his speech on a note of healing and redemption.

"We as a people must stand united, banding together to tear this nation in two," Bush said. "Much work lies ahead of us: The gap between the rich and the poor may be wide, be there's much more widening left to do. We must squander our nation's hard-won budget surplus on tax breaks for the wealthiest 15 percent. And, on the foreign front, we must find an enemy and defeat it."

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcbsnews1.cbsistatic.com%2Fhub%2Fi%2F2008%2F05%2F01%2Fd851091e-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759%2Fimage4061139x.jpg&hash=30c29775505c3495b45802fe4b274fb92740965c)

Goddamnit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 16, 2021, 09:11:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 15, 2021, 08:17:07 AM
And the award for the dumbest take on mask mandates goes to ...


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s1080x2048/235867626_4249475848422767_3958758427113168988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=l8CE6wOfLxwAX-PjXaz&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=53b12ec9aea08c4eb4b501f1ebec74d8&oe=613E8046)

:lol:
Florida Republicans are fighting schools so that they don't allow masks.  Weird.  Will they withold fundings from school that don't forbid guns on campus?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2021, 10:50:01 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?

Based on my sisters' posts:
- America is drowning in unprecedented crime waves (and people want to abolish the police!!!111)
- whites are being discriminated against by Blacks (the true racists(TM)) and blamed for things they had nothing to do with
- hordes of illegal immigrants are flooding into the country unimpeded
- something something MAH GUNS
- kids are being sexually abused in schools (by telling them that LGBTQ+ people exist and are ok)
... and it's all the fault of the Democrats, pardon DEMONRATS

(and other things I currently don't remember)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 16, 2021, 11:30:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 16, 2021, 10:50:01 PM
Quote from: PDH on August 16, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Wait.  What's happening in America now?

Based on my sisters' posts:
- America is drowning in unprecedented crime waves (and people want to abolish the police!!!111)
- whites are being discriminated against by Blacks (the true racists(TM)) and blamed for things they had nothing to do with
- hordes of illegal immigrants are flooding into the country unimpeded
- something something MAH GUNS
- kids are being sexually abused in schools (by telling them that LGBTQ+ people exist and are ok)
... and it's all the fault of the Democrats, pardon DEMONRATS

(and other things I currently don't remember)

The usual culture war hysteria.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 17, 2021, 07:46:04 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 16, 2021, 09:11:32 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 15, 2021, 08:17:07 AM
And the award for the dumbest take on mask mandates goes to ...


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s1080x2048/235867626_4249475848422767_3958758427113168988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=l8CE6wOfLxwAX-PjXaz&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=53b12ec9aea08c4eb4b501f1ebec74d8&oe=613E8046)

:lol:
Florida Republicans are fighting schools so that they don't allow masks.  Weird.  Will they withold fundings from school that don't forbid guns on campus?

Which schools allow guns on campus?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 17, 2021, 06:42:46 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 17, 2021, 07:46:04 AM
Which schools allow guns on campus?

aren't there some?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 17, 2021, 10:10:05 PM
https://www.wbrz.com/news/woman-using-gun-s-laser-sight-to-play-with-cat-shoots-friend/?fbclid=IwAR3NDVwUludqukZKiLmJE0W3-ZaY6LyRiZ8NtJ--HavgH1M13Hm2oRlGh3E (https://www.wbrz.com/news/woman-using-gun-s-laser-sight-to-play-with-cat-shoots-friend/?fbclid=IwAR3NDVwUludqukZKiLmJE0W3-ZaY6LyRiZ8NtJ--HavgH1M13Hm2oRlGh3E)

I don't have to worry about someone with a mask killing me accidentally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on August 17, 2021, 11:42:57 PM
What a dumb fuck
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 18, 2021, 08:23:55 AM
He was just utilizing his 2nd Amendment Rights to their fullest.  If others can't handle him because he is too real, then that is on their leftist asses.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on August 18, 2021, 09:43:49 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 18, 2021, 08:23:55 AM
He was just utilizing his 2nd Amendment Rights to their fullest.  If others can't handle him because he is too real, then that is on their leftist asses.

She/her/she.  The URL kinda gave it away.  Also from the article alcohol and guns continue to be a bad combination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 18, 2021, 09:54:18 AM
Quote from: ulmont on August 18, 2021, 09:43:49 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 18, 2021, 08:23:55 AM
He was just utilizing his 2nd Amendment Rights to their fullest.  If others can't handle him because he is too real, then that is on their leftist asses.

She/her/she.  The URL kinda gave it away.  Also from the article alcohol and guns continue to be a bad combination.
Yes, true on the first. On the 2nd it can make for some thrilling reading.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 18, 2021, 11:56:23 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pq63Hbry/tindc.jpg)

:tinfoil:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 18, 2021, 12:26:28 PM
Didn't your family blast Biden for his endless wars and warmongering before? Even when he does exactly what they want they hate him.

Kind of sounds like the same thing they used to criticize Trump's enemies of doing.

Also if DC is full of magicians I guess I should be comforted. I wish they would work their magic on the national debt and climate change.

Granted I never know how many of these memes are posted by the same person so my critique here might not be warranted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2021, 02:58:12 PM
I don't get why Syt's relatives are resending messages to flying turdpiles.  Is this an expression of secret contempt for the audience?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 18, 2021, 04:14:45 PM
Can the kooks hire some magicians? I require distraction from their BS.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 19, 2021, 12:20:36 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/232380614_10219464138503993_2092754218215398170_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=-3-gZ8ti1e0AX9yTEr8&_nc_oc=AQmQzikLAhfTzI-eOi4WbViK3mpHLGQi_vjogFG7ImNZF1qV3NxY0r_5K4k-sF8dc6w&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=54ef43f7348f7a5ec933aefc636fbee0&oe=6142C858)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2021, 02:38:21 PM
Does that mean she supports free medical care now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 19, 2021, 02:39:24 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2021, 02:38:21 PM
Does that mean she supports free medical care now?

For Illegal Immigrants no less!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 19, 2021, 03:29:30 PM
Ah, to THAT's why the Trump administration was lackadaisical about vaccine administration:  it knew that it couldn't vaccinate everyone at the exact same time, and MAGAts think that vaccines don't work unless administered to everyone at the exact same time. 

Do your sisters know they are stupid, Syt, or do they just suspect it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 20, 2021, 05:38:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/238987804_10227106042173860_1075340695324644055_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=O0EENZGms3cAX8KZJGs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=41097e9b49ed534be64365cd9f827311&oe=6144F991)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 20, 2021, 05:38:15 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 19, 2021, 03:29:30 PM
Do your sisters know they are stupid, Syt, or do they just suspect it?

No idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 20, 2021, 05:40:25 AM
No idea about these particular people but I have noticed this crowd does seem t o have at least some awareness of their stupidity. Those in the UK at least are very keen to be called stupid so they can claim victim status, its part of their whole narrative against "the elites" (despite their service of the elites.).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 20, 2021, 05:49:30 AM
Not sure about stupid, but there's definitely a proudly anti-intellectual streak there, "street-smarts vs book smarts", "ivy league school vs school of hard knocks" etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 20, 2021, 08:06:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 20, 2021, 05:38:04 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/238987804_10227106042173860_1075340695324644055_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=O0EENZGms3cAX8KZJGs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=41097e9b49ed534be64365cd9f827311&oe=6144F991)

Now, that would have been a fairly clever one if they had resisted the urge to add nonsensical things to the list.  Republicans can't meme.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 20, 2021, 09:55:40 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 20, 2021, 05:49:30 AM
Not sure about stupid, but there's definitely a proudly anti-intellectual streak there, "street-smarts vs book smarts", "ivy league school vs school of hard knocks" etc.

And yet the same anti-elitists literally worship the Founding Fathers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 21, 2021, 12:22:11 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/238886352_4702881169725453_8598422251099745927_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HoiQixRViHsAX9U2JkG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c287dd606eaf9613d88689774ae75f30&oe=6125CE55)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 21, 2021, 12:26:57 PM
It's the stupidity of the tweets that grates, not the meanness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 21, 2021, 03:48:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 21, 2021, 12:26:57 PM
It's the stupidity of the tweets that grates, not the meanness.
The 'mean tweets' comes up constantly now. Like the only reason you'd have for not liking a politician are tweets.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 21, 2021, 05:22:08 PM
Building up strawmen is the way to go for memes.

Anyway it baffles me that they went seamlessly from complaining about Biden's endless wars and warmongers to complaining about him ending wars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 22, 2021, 11:52:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2021, 05:22:08 PM
Building up strawmen is the way to go for memes.

Anyway it baffles me that they went seamlessly from complaining about Biden's endless wars and warmongers to complaining about him ending wars.
Same way they complain about Trump not getting credit for having made the vaccine himself while claiming that it causes: rDNA mutation; bad driving; heart failure; lung failure; magnetism; brain plaques; communism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 23, 2021, 10:32:51 AM
When he (Trump) told people to get the vaccine at a rally last night they booed him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 23, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/117368520_10207431730108347_9020195701329080516_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=1fwObayAxRgAX8z3pxr&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=136a0be403b573c084e0f3c867db8e71&oe=61486145)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s960x960/239313893_360717102384098_7898389407626397963_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HNXm53Gro6EAX_hU5Cf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2a67c4e7895b2f510b7af1edba165457&oe=6147EF63)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2021, 10:57:32 AM
I don't get the strawman that nobody cares about human trafficking.

Quote from: Syt on August 23, 2021, 10:42:49 AM

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s960x960/239313893_360717102384098_7898389407626397963_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HNXm53Gro6EAX_hU5Cf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=2a67c4e7895b2f510b7af1edba165457&oe=6147EF63)

Sounds good but maybe if you want to be left alone on your political views don't announce them on twitter? If you seek engagement, on twitter no less, don't whine about getting engaged. I bet people will leave you alone then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2021, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2021, 10:57:32 AM
I don't get the strawman that nobody cares about human trafficking.

Matt Gaetz is still in Congress so I think its a decent point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 26, 2021, 04:19:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/H5U0CH8.jpeg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 27, 2021, 02:07:52 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/vb5v4X3T/mwesv.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 27, 2021, 02:10:06 PM
We can only hope He brings sexy with Him. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 27, 2021, 02:12:37 PM
Might as well just skip to the Book of Revelation while they're at it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 27, 2021, 02:13:47 PM
...and Sexy followed with him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 27, 2021, 02:17:33 PM
Before this, I wouldn't have figured Paul Regalado as a surrender monkey.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on August 27, 2021, 02:39:21 PM
Wait, I'm confused, is surrender good or bad?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 27, 2021, 03:08:09 PM
Yeah, because this time, all the wars, famine, earthquakes etc. really really mean the end is nigh and the sky god his coming to save, well not us all, but the few who suffer through to the end.  But really, the sky god does love us all.

I think there was a Carlin piece about this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 27, 2021, 03:24:05 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 27, 2021, 02:17:33 PM
Before this, I wouldn't have figured Paul Regalado as a surrender monkey.

Before this, I was unaware of his existence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 27, 2021, 04:39:24 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 27, 2021, 03:24:05 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 27, 2021, 02:17:33 PM
Before this, I wouldn't have figured Paul Regalado as a surrender monkey.

Before this, I was unaware of his existence.

Thanks for sharing.  Could you share with us the names of the other people of whose existence you are unaware?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 27, 2021, 07:50:14 PM
If you mention them, sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 28, 2021, 12:57:06 AM
Should it be worrysome if an active duty soldier is posting memes like this?

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/240460000_138539898448354_857229819783233907_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Q6rVNmEeHV4AX-291Co&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=94bcd72dfc342b3cef7a243992eb7fa8&oe=612E5305)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 28, 2021, 04:08:34 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 27, 2021, 02:07:52 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/vb5v4X3T/mwesv.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/0zQDoFQ.jpg)



I confess, I made that one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 28, 2021, 11:57:27 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xv1RJ3Lq/dwm.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/433Csnzj/dtv.jpg)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/240525708_1530886840637391_4796040010030980599_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=-aCYysweEYYAX8pkPlU&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=4e01383784e454a553058663f23dc1e4&oe=612F1074)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/240385800_1530886850637390_5462260868544523912_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=_WbYGl62uaUAX9tyL4C&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=657348743db581cfa49a0802e8eb088f&oe=612FCF92)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/240603669_1530886847304057_3386883319033333419_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=NjKU4NqNEWAAX9whjOn&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f5d288b579def081101abdb8ef592131&oe=6130BD8C)



So, I guess this will be the next BENGHAZIIIIII!!!!1111 ?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 29, 2021, 10:51:25 AM
It's interesting they're banging on so much about this dead 11....whilst at the same time arguing against the withdrawal.
This really does seem to have been smart politics out of a no win situation by biden.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 29, 2021, 11:24:30 AM
Dan Crenshaw wants small government but ENDLESS WAR.

Seems like a contradiction to me. You need a huge government to fight endless war.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on August 29, 2021, 12:05:51 PM
Republican morons (but I repeat myself) want whatever sounds good at the time and are unafraid of turning on a dime if they find out a Democrat wants the same thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 29, 2021, 12:17:16 PM
Where was Crenshaw when Pompeo and Trump negotiated this deal?  Is it agreed they will be the lead defendants in the criminal case?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on August 29, 2021, 05:01:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 29, 2021, 12:17:16 PM
Where was Crenshaw when Pompeo and Trump negotiated this deal?  Is it agreed they will be the lead defendants in the criminal case?

He was probably busy shooting his superhero ad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi2yvpdtz1M

Your country has become a bit of a joke hasn't it  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 29, 2021, 05:08:12 PM
The message I'm seeing from the hard right is doing their 1984 thing and insisting this isn't trumps deal, trump would totally have bombed the taliban to bits, Biden is responsible for everything
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 29, 2021, 11:43:29 PM
From my niece's husband:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/240901236_495474248287927_2462334009538420555_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=-WiUzrFbrtcAX9b3oMp&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=af7b53c741388faf699173362296f0fa&oe=6132273F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 29, 2021, 11:44:01 PM
I don't understand this one:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p180x540/239957886_4296011173769234_7547152185621664083_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=P1OpkCDKA1IAX8ZM7kK&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=753f13f70fd9dfa2d06aff99aef7aaa6&oe=61528FCA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 29, 2021, 11:49:26 PM
Biden voters aren't on his Twitter feed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 29, 2021, 11:59:50 PM
Ah. What are they supposedly quiet about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on August 30, 2021, 12:21:14 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 29, 2021, 11:44:01 PM
I don't understand this one:
It's part of the Stolen Election idea. Because Trump held rallies that people attended and there were/are so many MAGA hats/flags/bumper stickers/etc., it proves that he won and not Biden who didn't have those things. Only Trump people make noise because only they exist and Biden voters are made up and as such cannot make noise.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 30, 2021, 01:45:50 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 29, 2021, 11:43:29 PM
From my niece's husband:

(http://c_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=-wiuzrfbrtcax9b3omp&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=af7b53c741388faf699173362296f0fa&oe=6132273f)

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 30, 2021, 02:39:19 AM
I'm trying to figure out what happened in the 3rd century BC with face coverings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 30, 2021, 06:00:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 29, 2021, 11:43:29 PM
From my niece's husband:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/240901236_495474248287927_2462334009538420555_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=-WiUzrFbrtcAX9b3oMp&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=af7b53c741388faf699173362296f0fa&oe=6132273F)

Is your niece's husband dyslexic?  Run-on sentences, commas splices galore, can't spell Allah correctly, fragments like "the man owner of the harem," etc.  Also, does he believe that blind people (who cannot see their own faces) really don't believe that they exist as independent beings?

He who does not know his stupidity is condemned to repeat it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 30, 2021, 06:07:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 30, 2021, 06:00:41 AM
Is your niece's husband dyslexic?  Run-on sentences, commas splices galore, can't spell Allah correctly, fragments like "the man owner of the harem," etc.  Also, does he believe that blind people (who cannot see their own faces) really don't believe that they exist as independent beings?

He who does not know his stupidity is condemned to repeat it.

He's an E-7 in the Army, you make your own jokes :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 30, 2021, 11:20:26 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfLT3LCM/rlq.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
We are either everywhere oppressing everybody or completely silent and not present at all.

It is hard to keep track of what the current conspiracy demands we be like.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 30, 2021, 11:25:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 29, 2021, 11:43:29 PM
From my niece's husband:

So how does he explain all the masks being warn in operating rooms and hospitals all this time? What about clean rooms in chip manufacturing? We want to oppress doctors and manufacturers of computer parts? It is a very specific kind of oppression.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 30, 2021, 11:31:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2021, 11:20:26 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfLT3LCM/rlq.jpg)


Vindman was fired.  So was his brother...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on August 30, 2021, 11:38:27 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 30, 2021, 11:25:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 29, 2021, 11:43:29 PM
From my niece's husband:

So how does he explain all the masks being warn in operating rooms and hospitals all this time? What about clean rooms in chip manufacturing? We want to oppress doctors and manufacturers of computer parts? It is a very specific kind of oppression.

Being that he is in the Army, and wearing of masks is mandatory indoors on all DoD facilities right now...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 30, 2021, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2021, 11:20:26 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfLT3LCM/rlq.jpg)

Testify about a severe security breach and you are rightly a hero.  Make a wacky conspiracy theory Youtube video while in uniform, and your career is rightly over.

One cannot pretend to represent the USMC official position when one is not authorized to represent the USMC official poistion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 30, 2021, 02:06:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 30, 2021, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2021, 11:20:26 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfLT3LCM/rlq.jpg)

Testify about a severe security breach and you are rightly a hero.  Make a wacky conspiracy theory Youtube video while in uniform, and your career is rightly over.

One cannot pretend to represent the USMC official position when one is not authorized to represent the USMC official poistion.
You can if you are a real patriotic American. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 30, 2021, 02:16:53 PM
I don't know who the second guy is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 30, 2021, 02:19:15 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 30, 2021, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2021, 11:20:26 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfLT3LCM/rlq.jpg)

Testify about a severe security breach and you are rightly a hero.  Make a wacky conspiracy theory Youtube video while in uniform, and your career is rightly over.

That's true.

It's also true that providing truthful testimony under oath in response to a Congressional subpoena is not insubordination.  It's legally required.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 30, 2021, 02:24:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 30, 2021, 02:16:53 PM
I don't know who the second guy is.

I think he's the Marine Lt Col who resigned in protest.  Check the Afghanistan thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 30, 2021, 11:37:13 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/240429890_897737980838232_8692303611098858667_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vif93K0850gAX-pPXWK&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a702800865750b240dfce455c2e2b265&oe=613255CC)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/239561448_4648438991835468_4410626675180910251_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=aiN72UZZ3KAAX_GWAqq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c098356024e07bfff30d9e401e67a737&oe=6154F2A0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5tj2Qhh2/vs.jpg)


Also: Please, won't someone think of the landlords (if they're veterans, anyways):

(https://i.postimg.cc/1zT5GWSc/hlt.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 31, 2021, 06:23:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2021, 11:37:13 PM
Also: Please, won't someone think of the landlords (if they're veterans, anyways):

(https://i.postimg.cc/1zT5GWSc/hlt.jpg)

Landlords have exactly the same protections against foreclosure as tenants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 31, 2021, 06:55:27 AM
Tenants are lazy snowflakes who want something for nothing though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 31, 2021, 08:10:32 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 30, 2021, 11:37:13 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/239561448_4648438991835468_4410626675180910251_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=aiN72UZZ3KAAX_GWAqq&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c098356024e07bfff30d9e401e67a737&oe=6154F2A0)

This is the kind of paranoid cynical stupidity that DGuller used to tell me ruined Russia and Ukraine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 31, 2021, 12:39:01 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/60913885_2506000852767239_4215848316165947392_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ADdl0nQy4uoAX90TYmj&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=282d5d5b9ed35141b47b74a92a0af75a&oe=61545697)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 31, 2021, 11:37:51 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/240643075_10223295009596527_1597953821956170961_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6EDA_7rZ48sAX-5gD9F&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e83b01ebf3ed5d4fc7ea53847c00f4ac&oe=6155915B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on September 01, 2021, 12:45:11 AM
That is different than the usual posts here.

Mourning her fallen son is the normal thing to do and being critical of the operation that killed him understandable.

However mixing it with supposed personal disrespect shown by Biden while at the same time admiring Trump despite his well-documented disrespect for soldiers shows that she is a moronic cultist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 01, 2021, 06:58:25 AM
Quote from: Zanza on September 01, 2021, 12:45:11 AM
That is different than the usual posts here.

Mourning her fallen son is the normal thing to do and being critical of the operation that killed him understandable.

However mixing it with supposed personal disrespect shown by Biden while at the same time admiring Trump despite his well-documented disrespect for soldiers shows that she is a moronic cultist.

You assume that this post is from the person it claims to be from.  That's not always wise.  Remember the guy who pretended to be Donald Trump while posting idiotic and often incomprehensible gibberish?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 02, 2021, 12:44:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s720x720/167813493_555059582135450_5789427651054882305_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_Dg92CAYM6IAX_zkx16&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=5a18a889975bcf1f91f51767198d211a&oe=615479A8)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 02, 2021, 12:56:17 AM
We don't need to speculate about what kind of doctor Trump would be. He's the kind that tries to treat a deadly infectious virus with a malaria drug, a cattle dewormer, and shot glass of bleach. If you believe that's the guy who telling you the truth it might explain why you are in a demographic with declining life expectancy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 02, 2021, 06:21:03 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 02, 2021, 12:56:17 AM
We don't need to speculate about what kind of doctor Trump would be. He's the kind that tries to treat a deadly infectious virus with a malaria drug, a cattle dewormer, and shot glass of bleach. If you believe that's the guy who telling you the truth it might explain why you are in a demographic with declining life expectancy.
No, if all that fails then it is the Liberals' fault for inventing disease in the first place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 02, 2021, 09:55:20 AM
What sort of hard truths did Trump tell his supporters?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 02, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 02, 2021, 09:55:20 AM
What sort of hard truths did Trump tell his supporters?

Person. TV.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 02, 2021, 10:22:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 02, 2021, 09:55:20 AM
What sort of hard truths did Trump tell his supporters?

Mexicans are sending rapists.  We don't want immigrants from shithole countries.  There were very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville.

It's an old line - racists are just courageous truth-tellers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 02, 2021, 10:34:52 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZK6kx45H/sed.jpg)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/241104322_3075602379337565_1678826474564525574_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vh0fcfDCuFkAX8gWZp1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=012c99e66b25e567850786830e8ed2c5&oe=61354C59)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 02, 2021, 10:34:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 02, 2021, 09:55:20 AM
What sort of hard truths did Trump tell his supporters?
It is always someone else's fault. Most of them thought that they had some responsibility for the problems in their lives, but he corrected that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 05, 2021, 11:09:36 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s640x640/117243873_3825521600808353_4064072196178982948_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=UWAUaFXQbbcAX_FzwXG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8df91954443ddb7322f7f9931cf70db9&oe=615C12D0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on September 05, 2021, 11:14:44 AM
 :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 05, 2021, 11:34:02 AM
In a way they were.  Having a black man as a president definitely brought things to a head for a lot of people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 05, 2021, 03:31:06 PM
Who knew that Newt Gingrich was an Obama?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on September 05, 2021, 09:25:01 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 05, 2021, 11:34:02 AM
In a way they were.  Having a black man as a president definitely brought things to a head for a lot of people.

He still won a second term.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 05, 2021, 11:51:23 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/240839123_10225554048013585_1078864148950054111_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=CSjHlnLTcGIAX8IUc9U&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c4060c4e3ed56e4cd8c93a51dfd87326&oe=615A60A0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 06, 2021, 02:52:23 AM
Its funny they keep trying to paint Biden as anti-military. You'd think that would be a topic Trump supporters would steer well clear of.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 06, 2021, 03:34:21 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 06, 2021, 02:52:23 AM
Its funny they keep trying to paint Biden as anti-military. You'd think that would be a topic Trump supporters would steer well clear of.


That does not seem to matter at all.  Trump's supporters are very interested in Biden's son possibly receiving favors from foreign companies.  They don't care if Trump's daughter received half a billion dollars in patents from China.  They are convinced that Biden won through fraud, but don't care if Trump explicitly called on his supporters to commit electoral fraud.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 07, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/239485678_10217253687534462_4507563440491718525_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=SYFv1p2O1IMAX88i9Rk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a4a18581970eb1a3130d82af663f0b1a&oe=613CE91D)

Is this true? I seem to recall he was criticized for his coverage of the Vietnam War.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 07, 2021, 11:46:28 AM
so, they're anti fox news then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 07, 2021, 11:47:35 AM
I have read that when he finally delivered his negative opinion about the war it was a big mover of public opinion.  I also think he had the credibility he did at least in part because he didn't editoriialize much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 07, 2021, 11:54:56 AM
As with many of these memes, it excels at bringing up a fair point (in this case, how national news coverage/delivery has changed over the years, probably not for the better), and then sabotage itself by doing so in a ridiculously stupid manner.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 07, 2021, 12:01:26 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 05, 2021, 11:51:23 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/240839123_10225554048013585_1078864148950054111_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=CSjHlnLTcGIAX8IUc9U&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c4060c4e3ed56e4cd8c93a51dfd87326&oe=615A60A0)

Joe Biden saved many the lives of many brave soldiers by ending that endless war, the one that Trump promised to end but did not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 07, 2021, 12:03:27 PM
So quit your bitching and start another riot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 07, 2021, 12:06:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 07, 2021, 11:47:35 AM
I have read that when he finally delivered his negative opinion about the war it was a big mover of public opinion.  I also think he had the credibility he did at least in part because he didn't editoriialize much.

It is true.

He was quite a unicorn in the way he could serve as a respected news source for everybody across the political and social spectrum in this country. He had many imitators but they never really pulled it off as well as he did.

We seem to have smoothly gone back to the days of highly partisan news since. Maybe it was just a unique era after WWII where we all decided to agree to disagree in a common purpose for awhile.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on September 07, 2021, 01:03:16 PM
Reintroducing the FCC Fairness Doctrine - as was upheld during Walter Cronkite's time - would definitely spell the end of FoxNews. It is telling that people who peddle that meme have utterly fallen for Fox's "Fair and Balanced" spin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 07, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 07, 2021, 01:03:16 PM
Reintroducing the FCC Fairness Doctrine - as was upheld during Walter Cronkite's time - would definitely spell the end of FoxNews. It is telling that people who peddle that meme have utterly fallen for Fox's "Fair and Balanced" spin.

I think they would be exempt because they are on cable / not broadcast.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 07, 2021, 01:19:16 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on September 07, 2021, 01:16:50 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on September 07, 2021, 01:03:16 PM
Reintroducing the FCC Fairness Doctrine - as was upheld during Walter Cronkite's time - would definitely spell the end of FoxNews. It is telling that people who peddle that meme have utterly fallen for Fox's "Fair and Balanced" spin.

I think they would be exempt because they are on cable / not broadcast.

They are also exempt because they are not a news channel, but an entertainment channel, according to their own filings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 07, 2021, 01:48:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 07, 2021, 01:19:16 PM
They are also exempt because they are not a news channel, but an entertainment channel, according to their own filings.

And because Fox News has 5 Supreme Court justices.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 07, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 07, 2021, 12:03:27 PM
So quit your bitching and start another riot.


They have another one scheduled for the 11th.  That was not a joke. :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 08, 2021, 02:31:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/I2g2hnW.jpeg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 08, 2021, 02:55:40 PM
I.... See.
I mean.... Believable. But whether true or not (most likely not) it changes nothing about the little regard with which I view trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 08, 2021, 06:15:49 PM
Bit of an old story.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 09, 2021, 03:22:43 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/241702300_10223441826931474_1352852940444998378_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=bd4ONdL9s3IAX9gTpI6&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=20ecc4a0361e56f96f904d786470634a&oe=615EB57E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 09, 2021, 03:38:01 PM
Jesus H. Christ, shut up about Benghazi already.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 09, 2021, 03:51:22 PM
Odd that Ben Ghazi is such a GOP hero.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on September 09, 2021, 04:25:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 08, 2021, 06:15:49 PM
Bit of an old story.
Right.  I still feel bad for the guy they hired to play 'Obama' though... imagine having to put up with that crazy racist asshole's ranting?  I hope they paid him really well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 09, 2021, 04:36:41 PM
Pa-id? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 11, 2021, 12:03:49 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p180x540/240738101_10158076635585925_4483004425835567782_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=tznkp-cTvCwAX81g7w1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8011339e5ddafe430e67515ea42f1bca&oe=61423A1A)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/241754718_394055235416305_6792479757415218794_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=aU5bhf_FgZIAX-CW_T9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6fec9889c3416787090afa61afa873b5&oe=61423A82)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2021, 09:46:55 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s720x720/241681554_4408623945859061_2136125105616853768_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=mlgAPyrO0jgAX-2U-pW&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a8a0351b5a5ce5844d9d069562907fb9&oe=61620115)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 12, 2021, 10:46:21 AM
Again, the solution is simple, and entirely in accordance with the beliefs of Sheriff Brown:  people can refuse to be vaccinated, and the only consequence should be that their insurance companies can refuse to pay any medical bills associated with COVID treatment.  Everyone gets to make their own choices, including those who are vaccinated and don't want to pay for the self-imposed medical costs of people refusing the vaccine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 12, 2021, 12:42:28 PM
Does that mean they won't enforce any drug laws or is this just for Covid?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2021, 11:25:14 PM
From my niece's husband:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/239253230_10221486032192985_2685683393979321678_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=PyCKz5FtvPAAX9VUGe-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fc5d34c1c257341dd8f0d36305e6e722&oe=61436B9D)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/241573011_3068820869996150_657698221401673542_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=672T2Wvrzi0AX8a3GAn&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b0c0c8037b6d6954e7137a681d3fac89&oe=61634C2D)

Is it normal for active Army personnel to post publicly about "the tyrannical government"? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 13, 2021, 01:16:57 AM
It's stupid, so I guess it's very common.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 13, 2021, 02:48:29 AM
Always really sad to see when the contagion is passed down a generation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 13, 2021, 07:27:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 12, 2021, 11:25:14 PM
From my niece's husband:

(ship)
Is it normal for active Army personnel to post publicly about "the tyrannical government"? :unsure:

No, but it is unusual for active Army personnel to whine about a given new mandatory inoculation when they've had about a dozen mandatory inoculations already. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 13, 2021, 11:41:07 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/238137391_10159827701097664_7679424064514392077_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=KUEigxaxxQsAX9jFuR-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fcf4f2add787fac6162692a0f1ffa0fa&oe=61673C8A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 14, 2021, 07:32:25 AM
The delicate snowflakes in your family should probably not use the internet if mild moderation causes them to activate Godwin's law.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 14, 2021, 09:09:54 AM
 No that is NOT what a book burning looks like :lol:

FFS
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 14, 2021, 09:15:14 AM
Note that the FB post is about "regulated goods."  I.e. the whiner here was trying to make a buck selling snake oil on Facebook.  If a private company can't be compelled to provide appropriate health care to their workers (Hobby Lobby) it shouldn't be forced to provide a platform for grifters to scam their user base.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 14, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/rwnwbyZw/idkp.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 14, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
....wut?
What exactly are they wanting here?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on September 14, 2021, 04:22:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 14, 2021, 07:32:25 AM
The delicate snowflakes in your family should probably not use the internet if mild moderation causes them to activate Godwin's law.

Edited for greater accuracy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 14, 2021, 07:29:30 PM
Quote from: ulmont on September 14, 2021, 04:22:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 14, 2021, 07:32:25 AM
The delicate snowflakes in your family should probably not use the internet if mild moderation causes them to activate Godwin's law.

Edited for greater accuracy.

Eliminating the evidence doesn't improve accuracy.  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on September 15, 2021, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 14, 2021, 07:29:30 PM
Quote from: ulmont on September 14, 2021, 04:22:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 14, 2021, 07:32:25 AM
The delicate snowflakes in your family should probably not use the internet if mild moderation causes them to activate Godwin's law.

Edited for greater accuracy.

Eliminating the evidence doesn't improve accuracy.  :huh:

We've seen enough evidence by now.  The if is no longer necessary and the statement can simply be declarative.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 15, 2021, 02:16:16 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 14, 2021, 07:29:30 PM
Quote from: ulmont on September 14, 2021, 04:22:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 14, 2021, 07:32:25 AM
The delicate snowflakes in your family should probably not use the internet if mild moderation causes them to activate Godwin's law.

Edited for greater accuracy.

Eliminating the evidence doesn't improve accuracy.  :huh:

I think he meant for greater certainty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 15, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 14, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
....wut?
What exactly are they wanting here?

prehemptively strike down any Biden statues :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2021, 06:43:12 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZv1bQgn/bcof.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/65n2bVBY/bis.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MpwcCcTx/rcmsct.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 17, 2021, 06:58:06 AM
Ivermectin is a poison used to deworm animals and, in some cases, humans.  Any doctor who wrote a prescription for human use except in the small doses designed to clear out intestinal worms is a fraud.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2021, 07:09:19 AM
Are you questioning the reporting by TOWNHALL.COM?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 17, 2021, 07:14:58 AM
Can you fight TOWNHALL?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 17, 2021, 07:31:20 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 17, 2021, 07:14:58 AM
Can you fight TOWNHALL?

TOWNHALL is the miniboss you have to defeat in order to fight CITYHALL.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 17, 2021, 07:32:46 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2021, 06:58:06 AM
Ivermectin is a poison used to deworm animals and, in some cases, humans.  Any doctor who wrote a prescription for human use except in the small doses designed to clear out intestinal worms is a fraud.
You must be a sheep then.  Why are you afraid of the truth?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2021, 07:45:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2021, 07:31:20 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 17, 2021, 07:14:58 AM
Can you fight TOWNHALL?

TOWNHALL is the miniboss you have to defeat in order to fight CITYHALL.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 17, 2021, 08:00:31 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2021, 06:43:12 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpwcCcTx/rcmsct.jpg)

The RCMP is at it again... They're worst than the CIA! ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2021, 09:35:49 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/67165110_2393438494312842_1481951544629788672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jCYk-HE9zacAX-AisK_&_nc_oc=AQkPVrgOIwwcx0uEwr9FxgAuhbgjOuREjpcAjocTcOgWEsbKB0k2XX6Vmj517OQ0pIY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b940b7cd8a3db440e5804b70a8d12256&oe=616936BC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 17, 2021, 10:07:27 AM
The entire "life is not easy" thing is just so fascinating and grotesque.

It is just straight out an excuse for ignoring privilege and those who do not have equal opportunity.

"Life is not easy" so everything I have I earned, and your poverty is what YOU earned.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2021, 10:11:50 AM
Considering this was posted by my oldest sister who is firmly on the poverty side of things ... it's a bit ironic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 17, 2021, 10:33:03 AM
Life isn't easy, so we should try to ease each other's burdens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2021, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 17, 2021, 10:33:03 AM
Life isn't easy, so we should try to ease each other's burdens.

Sounds a lot like communism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 17, 2021, 10:46:27 AM
Me after a life: ez
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 17, 2021, 10:55:47 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2021, 07:31:20 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 17, 2021, 07:14:58 AM
Can you fight TOWNHALL?

TOWNHALL is the miniboss you have to defeat in order to fight CITYHALL.

Stop trying to trick us. Everyone knows you can't fight CITYHALL.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 17, 2021, 10:58:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2021, 10:11:50 AM
Considering this was posted by my oldest sister who is firmly on the poverty side of things ... it's a bit ironic.

The first line is more concerning.  The fact that it was written and distributed suggests there is a significant level of acceptance of that proposition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on September 17, 2021, 11:12:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2021, 10:11:50 AM
Considering this was posted by my oldest sister who is firmly on the poverty side of things ... it's a bit ironic.

The crab-bucket leanings of the loudest, angriest poor folks is astonishing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2021, 11:14:04 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 17, 2021, 10:58:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2021, 10:11:50 AM
Considering this was posted by my oldest sister who is firmly on the poverty side of things ... it's a bit ironic.

The first line is more concerning.  The fact that it was written and distributed suggests there is a significant level of acceptance of that proposition.

Isn't that a democracy vs. republic thing (which in American politics keeps confusing me, because the way I learned it over here, republic denotes a non-monarchic government, regardless of whether it is authoritarian or democratic :D ).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 17, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2021, 11:14:04 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 17, 2021, 10:58:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2021, 10:11:50 AM
Considering this was posted by my oldest sister who is firmly on the poverty side of things ... it's a bit ironic.

The first line is more concerning.  The fact that it was written and distributed suggests there is a significant level of acceptance of that proposition.

Isn't that a democracy vs. republic thing (which in American politics keeps confusing me, because the way I learned it over here, republic denotes a non-monarchic government, regardless of whether it is authoritarian or democratic :D ).

Poland frowns on your shenanigans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 17, 2021, 11:21:53 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2021, 11:14:04 AM
Isn't that a democracy vs. republic thing (which in American politics keeps confusing me, because the way I learned it over here, republic denotes a non-monarchic government, regardless of whether it is authoritarian or democratic :D ).

I don't think most of the people distributing or reading this material intend to have a nuanced, academic discussion of Federalist 10, nor do they understand nor care about the true nature of the distinction that Madison was making, nor the fact that a key premise of the argument proved wrong within the first decade of the US, leading to major political and constitutional changes.

It's sort of Exhibit A in why just a little bit of historical learning is a dangerous thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 17, 2021, 11:29:52 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 17, 2021, 10:55:47 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2021, 07:31:20 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 17, 2021, 07:14:58 AM
Can you fight TOWNHALL?

TOWNHALL is the miniboss you have to defeat in order to fight CITYHALL.

Stop trying to trick us. Everyone knows you can't fight CITYHALL.

But you can fight THELAW.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 17, 2021, 11:33:48 AM
It's certainly possible to betray it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 17, 2021, 11:44:32 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 17, 2021, 11:29:52 AM
But you can fight THELAW.

You won't win.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 17, 2021, 12:22:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2021, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 17, 2021, 10:33:03 AM
Life isn't easy, so we should try to ease each other's burdens.

Sounds a lot like communism.
Hates America, you just know it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 17, 2021, 12:49:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MhuLj3p.jpeg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 18, 2021, 08:43:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/242147681_403413577820464_3195952482254383605_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=4bKtxX7jUooAX991p_T&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=657748926a98e738afd55aa09ff5abc9&oe=616B6DB6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 18, 2021, 09:13:23 AM
What a horrible curse. Forever unable to choose wisely themselves, they are still able to advise others to do so.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on September 19, 2021, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 18, 2021, 08:43:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/242147681_403413577820464_3195952482254383605_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=4bKtxX7jUooAX991p_T&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=657748926a98e738afd55aa09ff5abc9&oe=616B6DB6)
I'm so glad I'm out of the bar/restaurant industry. I left right before COVID hit and I absolutely would hate the the awfulness that has been going on since. From what I've heard from friends and former co-workers as well as read on a more national level, the people who went out when restaurants and bars reopened were and to some degree still are for the most part some of the absolute worst patrons. Lots of complaints about new policies out of staff control, incredibly rude, and terrible tippers.  <_<
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 19, 2021, 02:58:42 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 18, 2021, 08:43:07 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/242147681_403413577820464_3195952482254383605_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=4bKtxX7jUooAX991p_T&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=657748926a98e738afd55aa09ff5abc9&oe=616B6DB6)


The people they would be banning don't give a shit whether you live or die and demand that the government interfere in the running of your business.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 22, 2021, 11:47:02 PM
My middle sister is not in favor of Covid vaccination.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/241889314_4491396394215716_7651612277424524479_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=uaPfLZQu4ZMAX_gq-Yz&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=337285cee3f6f5c0e5f08a708e5546ee&oe=616FABDA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 22, 2021, 11:56:47 PM
All true except the last part.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2021, 07:41:42 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 22, 2021, 11:56:47 PM
All true except the last part.

It's true - the US government has tried every step that exasperated parents use with stubborn infants that refuse to take their medicine.
But it's still getting the same answer.
I don't wanna
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on September 23, 2021, 08:40:34 AM
Killing themselves and their families to post dumb memes on FB.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2021, 09:34:55 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/240395477_170545108488361_8864581043109377699_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=7b2sjcyQkkMAX_XHIrQ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a57bcb036c1802c27b545f62ee3fde84&oe=6171BEE2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 23, 2021, 10:42:38 AM
Because if it didn't you are a moron?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2021, 11:47:34 AM
Arizona managed a budget surplus even through COVID; why do they need an audit?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on September 23, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Such Americano-centrism. International issues don't happen on your schedule, FFS.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 23, 2021, 01:46:19 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 23, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Such Americano-centrism. International issues don't happen on your schedule, FFS.

Wasn't the US withdrawal the inciting event?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 26, 2021, 12:16:50 PM
Courtesy my sister and her son in law:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/69636451_10157265866015953_5812998533011210240_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pLpOyX3rFr4AX-qrzyr&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=41f945abfe2eb4c473963ab48ed7b2b8&oe=6174993C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 26, 2021, 02:12:21 PM
Ah, yes, the conspiracy of the "World's Wealthy Elite."  People like Donald Trump thinks he is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 27, 2021, 11:39:19 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/119954187_3311332902237653_5277178397152406923_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=BRNDbtOds5cAX_No4ws&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9c3d864fdef84a79a3509252a76a33b0&oe=6176414E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 27, 2021, 11:41:55 PM
Also, I have no idea what this is in reference to ... :unsure:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/243251007_4388722661164751_8416926171106584391_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=5efVS9WaXgEAX9i5RCr&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=15ad0b3ed74331ca5d653233d2154dd1&oe=61797B83)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 28, 2021, 12:23:16 AM
Likely his moranity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2021, 12:48:13 AM
Is it maybe about the Australia Covid rules (you know, the quarantine rules that randomly ping you and you have 15 minutes to comply to confirm your location or something?).

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australias-two-largest-states-trial-facial-recognition-software-police-pandemic-2021-09-16/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 28, 2021, 02:22:51 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 26, 2021, 12:16:50 PM
Courtesy my sister and her son in law:

[img]https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/69636451_10157265866015953_5812998533011210240_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pLpOyX3rFr4AX-qrzyr&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=41f945abfe2eb4c473963ab48ed7b2b8&oe=6174993C[/i]

Never ceases to be a head scratcher when trumpies get on board the epstein stuff. That's their side.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 28, 2021, 05:17:35 AM
It's not a matter of left and right, but haves and haven't enoughs. Most of the people Trump hung with most of his life were Democrats. Buying his snake oil doesn't mean one has to stop hating the rich as a class.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 28, 2021, 01:45:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 27, 2021, 11:41:55 PM
Also, I have no idea what this is in reference to ... :unsure:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/243251007_4388722661164751_8416926171106584391_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=5efVS9WaXgEAX9i5RCr&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=15ad0b3ed74331ca5d653233d2154dd1&oe=61797B83)




True or False:  Kevin Sorbo was named after Italian shaved ice.

False: Nobody give a shit about Kevin Sorbo and haven't for two decades.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2021, 12:32:56 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/242936557_2956228467949927_8447168726017761601_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=4_NVwZm_7ZUAX_myC7a&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b5933533a6649d6a4e99eb153f99b894&oe=6179AFC0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 29, 2021, 06:40:10 AM
THE END!!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 29, 2021, 07:17:28 AM
What are they doing when they aren't congratulating themselves on their peerless moral and intellectual superiority?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2021, 08:51:58 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 29, 2021, 07:17:28 AM
What are they doing when they aren't congratulating themselves on their peerless moral and intellectual superiority?

If they are like most facebook users, probably posting pictures of their dogs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 29, 2021, 10:21:19 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 29, 2021, 07:17:28 AM
What are they doing when they aren't congratulating themselves on their peerless moral and intellectual superiority?

For example:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/41844796_2187100511314753_6686369914925613056_n.png?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Vczy6-GAZXkAX-Q6oPf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=491aad114900bb298dcd9d6c540d62d1&oe=6178AC99)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on September 29, 2021, 10:22:19 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 29, 2021, 10:22:51 AM
If only we could figure out a way to spread self-awareness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 29, 2021, 10:23:48 AM
Yeah maybe they should try it sometime.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 29, 2021, 10:28:43 AM
So they believe in the potential for love to be communicable, but not diseases. Interesting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 29, 2021, 10:35:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 29, 2021, 10:21:19 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on September 29, 2021, 07:17:28 AM
What are they doing when they aren't congratulating themselves on their peerless moral and intellectual superiority?

For example:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/41844796_2187100511314753_6686369914925613056_n.png?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Vczy6-GAZXkAX-Q6oPf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=491aad114900bb298dcd9d6c540d62d1&oe=6178AC99)

:lol:

I am kind of feeling bad for bad-mouthing your family Syt, but the sheer lack of self-awareness is staggering.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 30, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
So since I keep seeing "Australia is showing gun control is working as expected", it indeed seems to be connected to their "Covid Totalitarianism".

https://thefederalist.com/2021/09/07/australias-covid-police-state-is-what-happens-when-you-give-up-your-guns/

QuoteAustralia's COVID Police State Is What Happens When You Give Up Your Guns

The COVID totalitarianism Aussies find themselves in today serves as a stark reminder to forever safeguard the right to self-defense, for it will offer more security than the government could ever guarantee.

Since the outset of the COVID-19 lockdowns, Australia has instituted some of the strictest lockdown measures in the western world. Once viewed as a free, prosperous society, the nation has slowly devolved into a full-fledged police state. with the federal government even going as far as to prohibit citizens from leaving the country.

At the state level, the situation is seemingly worse, with the severity of COVID restrictions varying among localities. In the Greater Sydney region of New South Wales, local authorities have restricted most interstate travel, forcibly shuttered places of worship, and limited the reasons individuals are allowed to leave their homes. Likewise in Victoria, where citizens remain in indefinite lockdown, state officials have instituted a curfew from 9 p.m. to 5 a.m. in metropolitan Melbourne.

Most recently, the government of South Australia decided to expand their police powers even further, with officials announcing plans for a new app that uses facial recognition software to track the movements and location of its citizens to ensure universal compliance with state COVID regulations.

"People in South Australia will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation," The Atlantic reported. "The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person."

Coupled with egregious reports of a father getting arrested in front of his infant child for going maskless at a local park and police detaining hundreds of lockdown protestors, the country bears all the hallmarks of a dying, once-free society.

Aussies Gave Up Their Liberty With Their Arms

While they may not realize it, Australian citizens relinquished any guarantees to individual liberty the moment they allowed their government to ban private gun ownership decades prior. Following a horrific mass shooting in 1996, Australia took up a series of extreme gun control measures that effectively made it exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to own a firearm.

In addition to banning "semi-automatic rifles" and "certain categories of shotgun," the nation's government also issued a compulsory gun "buyback" program that resulted in the confiscation of up to 1 million guns from Australian citizens. Moreover, the law also proclaims that "personal protection" and "protection of property" are not genuine reasons for an individual to acquire a firearm permit.

Once signed into law, the legislation efficaciously removed any form of control Aussies had over their individual rights. Rather than entrusting themselves to safeguard society's civil liberties, Australians instead rendered all responsibility to the government.

In the American context, the Founding Fathers understood that the right of the people to "keep and bear arms" was a absolute necessity. Having learned from the fallen nations of the past, the Framers understood that the citizenry must be armed in order to prevent the state from encroaching upon their God-given rights.

This of course hasn't stopped U.S. Democrats from attempting to implement a version of Australian-style gun control, with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris both signaling their support for a nationwide confiscation of firearms.

"Biden will also institute a program to buy back weapons of war currently on our streets," the Biden-Harris campaign site reads. "This will give individuals who now possess assault weapons or high-capacity magazines two options: sell the weapons to the government, or register them under the National Firearms Act."

Biden also made a similar pledge during a 2019 interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, saying that he would "institute a national buyback program" and that he "would move it in the direction of making sure that that in fact is what we try to do, get [assault weapons] off the street."

While Americans are fortunate enough to have a Constitution that protects against such tyrannical overreach so long as judges and lawmakers are willing to apply it faithfully, Australians are not as lucky. Not only does the Constitution of Australia lack any right to bear arms, but the document is also absent of a bill of rights for the Australian people. Unlike similar liberal democracies around the world, Australia has largely provided its federal and state parliaments with the power to dictate what constitutes as an individual right.

By surrendering their arms to the state all those years ago, the Australian people mistakenly placed the defense of a free society in the hands of infallible politicians, who are beyond capable of sin and have demonstrated a clear willingness to violate the very ideals that have made Western civilization unique. The COVID totalitarianism Aussies find themselves in today serves as a stark reminder to forever safeguard the right to self-defense, for it will offer more security than any government could ever guarantee.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 30, 2021, 12:15:39 AM
The Australian law does sound rather overreaching, regardless of connection to gun control.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 30, 2021, 12:23:18 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 30, 2021, 12:15:39 AM
The Australian law does sound rather overreaching, regardless of connection to gun control.  :hmm:

The phone text/verification - yes. The other measures are pretty much in line what many European countries did e.g. last year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 30, 2021, 04:06:01 AM
Damn. My guess for the Australia nonsense was confusing civilian gun control with having a military.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 30, 2021, 01:09:43 PM
How would the right to purchase a "semi-automatic rifles" and "certain categories of shotgun" have any bearing on Australia's COVID legislation?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 30, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 30, 2021, 01:09:43 PM
How would the right to purchase a "semi-automatic rifles" and "certain categories of shotgun" have any bearing on Australia's COVID legislation?

Don't be a sheeple, Minsky. :rolleyes:

Australians no longer have the firepower to actively rebel against the government, which means the government can impose whatever totalitarian laws they want!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 30, 2021, 01:11:48 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 30, 2021, 01:09:43 PM
How would the right to purchase a "semi-automatic rifles" and "certain categories of shotgun" have any bearing on Australia's COVID legislation?


It's easier to lynch legislators if you have weapons.  It's the whole "we have guns to keep the government in line" bullshit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 30, 2021, 01:24:20 PM
OK, yes, my question is rhetorical.

But it's the sign of troubling times that so many people believe that violent extortion and insurrection is a legitimate check on legislative democracy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 30, 2021, 02:16:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 30, 2021, 01:24:20 PM
OK, yes, my question is rhetorical.

But it's the sign of troubling times that so many people believe that violent extortion and insurrection is a legitimate check on legislative democracy.
It's been the case since the founding of the US, no? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 30, 2021, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: viper37 on September 30, 2021, 02:16:56 PM
It's been the case since the founding of the US, no? :P

I know you are joking but in seriousness the opposite is close to being true.

An immediate impetus to the US Constitution was Shay's Rebellion where the governor of Massachusetts had to deputize a mercenary army to fight the rebels - a motivating purpose was to create a strong national government that had the capacity to suppress local armed insurrections.  And when the whiskey rebellion broke out in western Penn a few years later, Washington (as President) raised a large federalized militia force to put it down.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 30, 2021, 03:27:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XhovClU.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 30, 2021, 04:43:49 PM
True.
I was just thinking earlier - imagine the conspiracy nuts are right. The covid vaccine is a danger and its going to kill everyone who took it.
.... Do we really want to survive to live in the world that's left considering the people who will make it up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 01, 2021, 10:33:26 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/J1W2H8tb/fai.jpg)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/243225634_2036189053212286_311698943107492656_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=qX_yLQaTB2gAX8bzbIp&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7612549722695f6d4ca3f71119393711&oe=617D1E62)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 03, 2021, 10:20:36 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s640x640/244144714_275414854583741_5266299610443450485_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=jVo7N-bHDjgAX9Aqz0S&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=89dd9e16d4bf07127b152ea4f23cc3df&oe=617F6FCC)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/243171517_428543998616125_8679781360952661762_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=UPzLH_GSNN4AX-qixF5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=461ce54622dfd5b9163657e3b8fc855a&oe=6180A601)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 03, 2021, 02:36:36 PM
After researching those terms, I've decided not to vote to reelect Kennedy.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 03, 2021, 03:17:14 PM
Oh no. They're trying to use the Simpsons now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 03, 2021, 04:12:08 PM
Did you know that the US, UK, and Canada (with help from other countries) tried to make a live-action show from an anime series?  Research "Operation Overlord."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 03, 2021, 04:44:22 PM
Research needs to come from a peer review publication.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 06, 2021, 07:52:43 AM
https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/horror-story-navy-vet-never-set-foot-capitol-jan-6-held-solitary/

Quote'Horror story': Navy vet, never set foot in Capitol on Jan. 6, but held in solitary!

By Art Moore
Published October 5, 2021 at 8:06pm

Accused of "plotting an attack on the Capitol" on Jan. 6 even though he never went inside the building that day, 66-year-old Navy veteran Thomas Caldwell spent 49 days in solitary confinement.

Now in home detention awaiting trial, Caldwell told Fox News host Tucker Carlson "they made me the poster boy."

"I was defendant No. 1 in a conspiracy," he explained. "They said I conspired and I actually put together a military-style attack on the Capitol. Then I stormed into the Capitol and did all these terrible things."

Caldwell said "they even claimed I threatened our lawfully elected representatives in Congress."

TRENDING: Trump-appointed federal judge slams DOJ for uneven treatment of Capitol incursion, BLM riots
"Total claptrap," Caldwell told Carlson.

"But they sent that information all around the world, across all the media platforms."

Caldwell was an FBI section chief from 2009 to 2010 after retiring as a lieutenant commander from the Navy.

Julie Kelly told the Caldwells' story in a column for American Greatness.

Caldwell's wife awakened him in a panic at 5:30 a.m. on Jan. 19, saying, "The FBI is at the door and I'm not kidding."

The Navy vet told Kelly there was "a full SWAT team, armored vehicles with a battering ram, and people screaming at me."

"People who looked like stormtroopers were pointing M4 weapons at me, covering me with red [laser] dots."

In his interview with Carlson, Caldwell said he and his wife hired a lawyer who demanded that prosecutors present their evidence.

"When they couldn't produce it, they immediately changed their position," Caldwell said.

"Now they say the exact opposite of what they said. Originally they said I was the commander of the Oath Keepers. That I did this terrible thing to go inside and attack Congress," he said.

Now prosecutors acknowledge he wasn't even a member of Oath Keepers, didn't plan an attack and didn't go inside the Capitol.

"But still, Tucker, we're mired in a legal battle against the government with no end in sight," Caldwell said.

The couple's finances "have been decimated."

"We're Christians, and we believe God has us in the palm of his hand, [but] things aren't looking all that great, and we're at the edge of losing the family farm," he said.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 06, 2021, 08:15:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 03, 2021, 04:12:08 PM
Did you know that the US, UK, and Canada (with help from other countries) tried to make a live-action show from an anime series?  Research "Operation Overlord."
The Military-Entertainment Complex at its worst.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 06, 2021, 03:32:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2021, 07:52:43 AM
https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/horror-story-navy-vet-never-set-foot-capitol-jan-6-held-solitary/

The latest superseding indictment covering Caldwell is here - https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/press-release/file/1422696/download

Some of the facts alleged include:

+ WATKINS, the self-described "C.O. [Commanding Officer] of the Ohio State Regular Militia," sent text messages to recruit a number of individuals who had expressed interest in joining the Ohio State Regular Militia . . . CALDWELL sent a text message to WATKINS stating: . . ."I believe we will have to get violent to stop this, especially the antifa maggots who are sure to come out en masse even if we get the Prez for 4 more years. . . . You are my kinda person and we may have to fight next time. I have my. own gear, I like to be ON TIME and go where the enemy is . . ."

+ On December 31, 2020, CALDWELL replied to a Face book comment, writing, "It begins for real Jan 5 and 6 on Washington D.C. when we mobilize in the streets. Let them try to certify some crud on capitol hill with a million or more patriots in the streets. This kettle is set to boil. .. "

+ On January 1, 2021, CALDWELL replied to a Facebook comment, writing, "I accept that assignment! I swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. I did the former, I have done the latter peacefully but they have morphed into pure evil even blatantly rigging an election and paying off the political caste. We must smite them now and drive them down."

+On January 1, 2021, CROWL sent CALDWELL a Facebook message stating, . . . "Will probably call you tomorrow ... mainly because ... ! like to know wtf plan is. You are the man Commander." On January 1, 2021, CALDWELL wrote to CROWL . . . "I will probably do prestrike on the 5th though there are things going on that day. Maybe can do some night hunting. Oathkeeper friends from North Carolina are taking commercial buses up early in the morning on the 6th and back same night. [PERSON THREE] will have the goodies in case things go bad and we need to get heavy."

+ At 2:06 p.m. (day of riot), CALDWELL sent WATKINS a text message stating: "Where are you? Pence has punked out. We are screwed. Teargassing peaceful protesters at capital steps. Getting rowdy here ... I am here at the dry fountain to the left of the Capitol[.]"  [16 minutes later, Watkins illegally entered the restricted Capitol grounds]

+ [At 2:45] CALDWELL, who was positioned on the west side of the Capitol, joined with PERSON TWO and others known and unknown in storming past barricades and climbing stairs up to a balcony in the restricted area on the west side of the Capitol building

+ At 2:48 p.m., CALDWELL sent a message on Facebook, writing, "We are surging forward. Doors breached[.]"

+ Between January 6, 2021, and January 19, 2021, CALDWELL deleted photographs from his Facebook account that documented his participation in the attack on the Capitol on January 6, 2021.

Caldwell is charged with obstruction of official proceeding, unlawful entry in restricted building or grounds,  tampering with documents, and conspiracy

It is fair to say that the "wnd" story does not accurately describe Caldwell's conduct.

Caldwell's lawyer has advanced the defense that his admitted statements should be disregarded as "Walter Mittyisms" which makes me suspect he never actually read the story.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 06, 2021, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 06, 2021, 03:32:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 06, 2021, 07:52:43 AM
https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/horror-story-navy-vet-never-set-foot-capitol-jan-6-held-solitary/

The latest superseding indictment covering Caldwell is here - https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/press-release/file/1422696/download

Some of the facts alleged include:

[...]
Caldwell's lawyer has advanced the defense that his admitted statements should be disregarded as "Walter Mittyisms" which makes me suspect he never actually read the story.

At first, I wonder how a serious publication could be so wrong about the facts.  Then I went and read the first page...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 06, 2021, 11:32:31 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 06, 2021, 03:32:25 PM
It is fair to say that the "wnd" story does not accurately describe Caldwell's conduct.

Are you saying they're biased? :o But they say the speak the TRUTH:

QuoteBig Tech and Big Media are not just pushing fake news on America. They're also suppressing, censoring, de-platforming and destroying conservative, pro-American news at every turn. WND is totally committed to reporting the TRUTH – come what may – just as it has done so faithfully for over 24 years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 06, 2021, 11:59:48 PM
Wasn't that the one you used to see at the supermarket with stories about alien babies?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 07, 2021, 01:18:40 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 06, 2021, 11:59:48 PM
Wasn't that the one you used to see at the supermarket with stories about alien babies?

That's World News Daily (I think?), this is World Net Daily. With Daily Wire the main source of news (based on Facebook posts) for my niece's husband.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 07, 2021, 07:04:41 AM
Hans used to post stuff from WND.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on October 07, 2021, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 06, 2021, 11:59:48 PM
Wasn't that the one you used to see at the supermarket with stories about alien babies?

That was The Weekly World News.  Shame on you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 07, 2021, 01:10:10 PM
Hey, I never bought it so no need to concern myself with its publishing schedule.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 08, 2021, 12:24:43 AM
https://conservativebrief.com/legislators-call-52369/?fbclid=IwAR2ccTQzh_Jc4SvR1AgIqqs4LPgn20usXd6Tvfo-vEg-ZRdPYN_Z18n2dIM

QuoteAZ State Senator Wendy Rogers: 92 Legislators Call For Audits In All 50 States And Decertification

Arizona Republican state Sen. Wendy Rogers says 92 state legislatures have signed a letter calling for a nationwide audit and decertification of the 2020 election.

The full letter states:

Letter From State Legislators To The American People Reference The 2020 Election

To the citizens of the United States of America,

We the undersigned state legislators of the United States are vested with the plenary power by our US Constitution (Article 2 Section 1 Clause 2) to oversee the election of the president of the United States.

It has come to our attention from an audit of 2.1 million ballots in Arizona complemented by an in-depth canvass of votes in Arizona, as well as through multiple different data reviews of voting by independent experts; that our representative republic suffered a corrupted 2020 election.

In addition to Arizona, sworn affidavits have accumulated from many states detailing rampant corruption and mismanagement in the election process. Fraud and inaccuracies have already been shown through multiple audits and canvasses in multiple states, as well as through lawsuits challenging the validity of election results in several counties in multiple states.

We have come to the conclusion that all 50 states need to be forensically audited. Voter rolls should be scrubbed with a canvass of the voters to ensure future integrity of our elections.

If results from these measures prove an inaccurate election was held, as has been shown in Arizona, and is being shown in many other states; then it is clear that certification of many electors was improperly rendered in January 2021 of the November 2020 United States presidential election.

We call on each state to decertify its electors where it has been shown the elections were certified prematurely and inaccurately.

If it is shown that either Joe Biden would receive fewer than 270 tallied electoral votes, or Donald Trump would receive more than 270 electoral votes, then we call for the US House of Representatives to convene and vote per the US Constitution by means of one vote per state to decide the rightful winner of the election in accordance with the constitutional process of choosing electors.

This is our historic obligation to restore the election integrity of the vote as the bedrock of our constitutional republic.

If we do not have accurate and fair elections, we do not have a country.

Former Missouri GOP Eric Greitens spoke with Arizona state legislators this week on his way to the U.S.-Mexico border, and he's calling for major action in the state.

Greitens and Arizona State Senator Wendy Rogers spoke with conservative correspondent Jordan Conradson at the Arizona Capitol about the audit of 2.1 million ballots in Maricopa County.

Fox News host Jesse Watters broke ranks at the network and spoke about the election audit that took place in Maricopa County, Arizona.

Though he only mentioned it briefly, Watters did what most Fox News hosts have largely refused to do: he broke ranks and mentioned the audit on the network.

"In Arizona, Joe Biden beat Donald Trump by 11,000 votes. An audit in Maricopa County done by an outside firm found 57,000 questionable ballots just in that one county. The media wasn't interested in this, and the audit wasn't as thorough as it could have been because Arizona officials wouldn't fully cooperate and some evidence was removed and destroyed," he said.

"We're picking it apart, but we need more honest Americans on the inside run for office, be a reporter. I'd tell you to be a lawyer, but this country does not need any more lawyers, just the right ones in the right places. So, get it right — or be a judge," Watters declared.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 08, 2021, 01:38:34 AM
Quote92 state legislatures

I see.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 08, 2021, 01:40:26 AM
I suppose they mean legislators. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2021, 01:43:12 AM
92 out of how many Republican state legislators?  "Stop the steal" is dying a slow painful death.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 08, 2021, 01:46:17 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2021, 01:43:12 AM
92 out of how many Republican state legislators?  "Stop the steal" is dying a slow painful death.

Just goes to show that most in the GOP are RINOs  :mad: :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2021, 01:47:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 08, 2021, 01:46:17 AM
Just goes to show that most in the GOP are RINOs  :mad: :P

Thanks God in Heaven for that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 08, 2021, 06:53:28 AM
Most Republicans are leftists. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 08, 2021, 08:42:57 AM
I don't get the Republican drumbeat to use the results of the Arizona audit, which they claim demonstrated fraud, as a model for other states.  The Arizona audit demonstrated that, if there was fraud, it was perpetrated by Republicans.  Are Republicans not satisfied to be humiliated in only one state?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 08, 2021, 10:01:26 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 08, 2021, 08:42:57 AM
I don't get the Republican drumbeat to use the results of the Arizona audit, which they claim demonstrated fraud, as a model for other states.  The Arizona audit demonstrated that, if there was fraud, it was perpetrated by Republicans.  Are Republicans not satisfied to be humiliated in only one state?
Most of them don't know or care what the audit results are, only that they can scream about fraud by the other side. Its what happens when you elect social media influencers to office.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 08, 2021, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 08, 2021, 08:42:57 AM
I don't get the Republican drumbeat to use the results of the Arizona audit, which they claim demonstrated fraud, as a model for other states.  The Arizona audit demonstrated that, if there was fraud, it was perpetrated by Republicans.  Are Republicans not satisfied to be humiliated in only one state?
I think expecting logic from Republicans is a recipe for becoming insane yourself.  I think they discovered the secret that online debaters knew for a while: the outcome is what you claim it is, so it's dumb to ever claim that the outcome is not in your favor.  What we need to discover is a counter to this gaslighting, and I don't think anyone even knows where to look for it, to be honest.  I hope it exists somewhere, because otherwise the future of humanity doesn't look that promising.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 08, 2021, 10:34:54 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2021, 01:43:12 AM
  "Stop the steal" is dying a slow painful death.

Slow and painful yes.

Still waiting on the death part.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on October 08, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 08, 2021, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 08, 2021, 08:42:57 AM
I don't get the Republican drumbeat to use the results of the Arizona audit, which they claim demonstrated fraud, as a model for other states.  The Arizona audit demonstrated that, if there was fraud, it was perpetrated by Republicans.  Are Republicans not satisfied to be humiliated in only one state?
I think expecting logic from Republicans is a recipe for becoming insane yourself.  I think they discovered the secret that online debaters knew for a while: the outcome is what you claim it is, so it's dumb to ever claim that the outcome is not in your favor.  What we need to discover is a counter to this gaslighting, and I don't think anyone even knows where to look for it, to be honest.  I hope it exists somewhere, because otherwise the future of humanity doesn't look that promising.
They adopted the social media fix for reality. That being, reality is what feels right for you and anyone contradicting it is a lying, evil, monster.  Not wrong, evil. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 11:49:16 AM
This is the end result of "liberal media bias" claims.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 11:49:16 AM
This is the end result of "liberal media bias" claims.

Ugg.

I don't see how it can be denied that the traditional, "mainstream" media has and continues to have a liberal bias.  And it's gotten worse - just look at some of the stories coming out of say the NYT about people being fired after calls from the newsroom.

But bias does not mean "fake news", and pointing to bias does not inevitably result in rejecting anything the mainstream media has to say.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 08, 2021, 12:09:04 PM
Liberal media bias in mainstream media? I guess that means you don't consider anything owned by Murdoch or Sinclair (or Postmedia) to be mainstream?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 12:33:49 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 08, 2021, 12:09:04 PM
Liberal media bias in mainstream media? I guess that means you don't consider anything owned by Murdoch or Sinclair (or Postmedia) to be mainstream?

Murdoch's media has pretty consistently set itself up in opposition to the "mainstream media" so no.  Not nearly as familiar with Sinclair as it mostly owns local tv stations in the US, but they sound fairly conservative.

Postmedia is a little more complicated.  Certainly the National Post was founded by Conrad Black (who now writes terrible pro-Trump screeds from time to time) with an explicit version of being a small-c conservative alternative to the Globe and Mail.  Black also bought up a number of other newspapers.  But then the papers were sold to Izzy Asper's Canwest Global.  Izzy Asper was the one-time leader of the Manitoba Liberal Party, and the papers editorially kind of switched between the Liberals and Conservatives.  Then of course Canwest went bankrupt in 2008, the assets were sold to Postmedia with the help of hedge funds.  Postmedia then went on to purchase the Sun Media assets from Quebecor.

Postmedia's editorial content has been fairly pro-Conservative (perhaps as a kind of vestigal holdover from Conrad Black), and with the hollowing-out of Canadian newspapers generally they don't produce a whole lot of content anyways, but their general news content is definitely mainstream and yes, I would say, has a liberal (small L) bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 01:20:43 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 11:49:16 AM
This is the end result of "liberal media bias" claims.

Ugg.

I don't see how it can be denied that the traditional, "mainstream" media has and continues to have a liberal bias.  And it's gotten worse - just look at some of the stories coming out of say the NYT about people being fired after calls from the newsroom.

But bias does not mean "fake news", and pointing to bias does not inevitably result in rejecting anything the mainstream media has to say.


Look closely, I have denied it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 01:39:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 11:49:16 AM
This is the end result of "liberal media bias" claims.

Ugg.

I don't see how it can be denied that the traditional, "mainstream" media has and continues to have a liberal bias.  And it's gotten worse - just look at some of the stories coming out of say the NYT about people being fired after calls from the newsroom.

But bias does not mean "fake news", and pointing to bias does not inevitably result in rejecting anything the mainstream media has to say.
The mainstream media has a bias towards posting reality.

If you define reality as "liberal", then you are correct.

Note: I am not claiming the mainstream media doesn't have serious problems. It does. Liberal bias is not one of them however.

Here you go:

https://adfontesmedia.com/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 08, 2021, 01:56:41 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 12:33:49 PM
Murdoch's media has pretty consistently set itself up in opposition to the "mainstream media" so no.  Not nearly as familiar with Sinclair as it mostly owns local tv stations in the US, but they sound fairly conservative.

Claiming not to be mainstream for political and branding purposes does not make it not mainstream, IMO.

QuotePostmedia is a little more complicated.  Certainly the National Post was founded by Conrad Black (who now writes terrible pro-Trump screeds from time to time) with an explicit version of being a small-c conservative alternative to the Globe and Mail.  Black also bought up a number of other newspapers.  But then the papers were sold to Izzy Asper's Canwest Global.  Izzy Asper was the one-time leader of the Manitoba Liberal Party, and the papers editorially kind of switched between the Liberals and Conservatives.  Then of course Canwest went bankrupt in 2008, the assets were sold to Postmedia with the help of hedge funds.  Postmedia then went on to purchase the Sun Media assets from Quebecor.

Postmedia's editorial content has been fairly pro-Conservative (perhaps as a kind of vestigal holdover from Conrad Black), and with the hollowing-out of Canadian newspapers generally they don't produce a whole lot of content anyways, but their general news content is definitely mainstream and yes, I would say, has a liberal (small L) bias.

That's a reasonable analysis and argument, but not so overwhelming that the contrary cannot be argued. And given Postmedia's position in Canada, it is perfectly reasonable to argue that mainstream media in Canada does not have a liberal bias.

Though I suppose that also comes down to what you define as a "liberal bias". I'm curious, if we imagine a Postmedia that did not have a liberal bias, what would that look like? And what would the Canadian media landscape all up look like if it didn't have what you consider a liberal bias?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 01:39:31 PM
The mainstream media has a bias towards posting reality.

If you define reality as "liberal", then you are correct.

Note: I am not claiming the mainstream media doesn't have serious problems. It does. Liberal bias is not one of them however.

:rolleyes:

Okay, so what are the problems of the mainstream media?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2021, 02:09:43 PM
All media has bias, it's inescapable. Whether it's defined as liberal, conservative, centrist, nationalist, or pretended to not exist is in the eye of the beholder.

That said, there is a significant difference between media that tries to honestly report news and media that doesn't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 02:12:56 PM
The most common bias is focusing on stories that cost little to produce yet generate higher ad revenue. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 08, 2021, 02:15:18 PM
I think saying that most of the mainstream media (basically everyone excluding the right-wing propaganda outfits) does not have at least some liberal bias is overegging the pudding a little.  There are definitely issues that are not reported on in a balanced way. 

You don't have to lie to be biased, you merely have to be selective in reporting.  If you spend 90% of the time talking about things that happen 10% of the time, reasonable listeners might unconsciously come to a conclusion that this 10% event is par for the course.  As a result, nuanced understanding of the issue is lost, since the media is not providing the proper balance of information for people to reach properly balanced conclusions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 08, 2021, 02:15:18 PM
I think saying that most of the mainstream media (basically everyone excluding the right-wing propaganda outfits) does not have at least some liberal bias is overegging the pudding a little.  There are definitely issues that are not reported on in a balanced way. 

You don't have to lie to be biased, you merely have to be selective in reporting.  If you spend 90% of the time talking about things that happen 10% of the time, reasonable listeners might unconsciously come to a conclusion that this 10% event is par for the course.  As a result, nuanced understanding of the issue is lost, since the media is not providing the proper balance of information for people to reach properly balanced conclusions.


If you exclude right-wing sources then it would look like there are no mainstream conservative outlets.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 08, 2021, 02:58:07 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 08, 2021, 02:15:18 PM
I think saying that most of the mainstream media (basically everyone excluding the right-wing propaganda outfits) does not have at least some liberal bias is overegging the pudding a little.  There are definitely issues that are not reported on in a balanced way. 

You don't have to lie to be biased, you merely have to be selective in reporting.  If you spend 90% of the time talking about things that happen 10% of the time, reasonable listeners might unconsciously come to a conclusion that this 10% event is par for the course.  As a result, nuanced understanding of the issue is lost, since the media is not providing the proper balance of information for people to reach properly balanced conclusions.

Equally they have some conservative bias in over egging antifa, really weird LGBT++ niche people demanding daft things, etc...

The media in general, excluding those with overt political leanings, has a pro sensation bias no matter which way it blows.

It's notable that the more grown up and less sensationalist media outlets do seem to lean left... But that's largely because the right has given itself over to utter fuck wittery these days, denying reality itself. When the divide is dull centrists on the left and conspiracy theorist crypto fascists ruling the right then the right is going to get the sharp end of the reality stick as long as the Conservatives keep making common cause with the crazies
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 08, 2021, 03:09:15 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 08, 2021, 02:58:07 PM
Equally they have some conservative bias in over egging antifa, really weird LGBT++ niche people demanding daft things, etc...
No, not equally.  The right wing propaganda outlets may employ the same tactics to create bias, but they employ them more aggressively, and they also employ other tactics that are unique to them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 03:15:27 PM
Exhibit 1 of left wing media bias:

(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/08/1200/675/CNN-Headline-Fiery-2.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 08, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Coverage of the Republican convention should have started sooner?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 03:27:04 PM
That's one company and one story.  It's also not incorrect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 08, 2021, 03:27:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 03:15:27 PM
Exhibit 1 of left wing media bias:

Is it left wing bias because the headline says "mostly peaceful" when there are fires in the background from the obviously excessive rioting?

Or is it right wing bias because they choose a background on fire suggesting utter chaos when the protests were mostly peaceful?

Is it right wing bias to focus on the bad actions of a subset of protestors rather than the repeated excess of police officers apparently beyond reach for any consequences unless there are literal riots?

Or is it left wing bias to imply that riots is the only way that "bad egg" police officers will ever be held to account?

... I don't think incongruence between a headline and a backdrop is particularly clear evidence of a particular bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 03:32:17 PM
"Liberal media bias" is and has always been a political strategy by conservatives.  I think it started in the Nixon administration as a way to deflect criticism of the war in Vietnam and later Watergate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 08, 2021, 03:36:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 03:32:17 PM
"Liberal media bias" is and has always been a political strategy by conservatives.  I think it started in the Nixon administration as a way to deflect criticism of the war in Vietnam and later Watergate.
Just because it's a political strategy doesn't mean there is no substance behind it.  Hitting Trump on his Covid response was a political strategy in 2020, but that doesn't mean that his response wasn't in fact abysmal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 03:47:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 08, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Coverage of the Republican convention should have started sooner?

This was in the aftermath of George Floyd's death, which led to widespread protests in the summer of 2020 over racial justice.  It was noted by many that the MSM A: did not criticize the protestors for violating public health orders, and B: minimized the amount of damage/violence that occurred in some locations, since the cause of the protestors was just.


And it talking about liberal bias, it's not that it's malicious or even intentional.  But at these national media companies, they're run out of big cities, and the employees are all university graduates, often of large prestigious schools.  Just the natural demographics of what I just described mean the employees are going to be liberal/progressive types.  CNN is not staffing itself from community college graduates from the midwest.

As they say - "fish don't know they're wet".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 08, 2021, 03:27:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 03:15:27 PM
Exhibit 1 of left wing media bias:

Is it left wing bias because the headline says "mostly peaceful" when there are fires in the background from the obviously excessive rioting?

Or is it right wing bias because they choose a background on fire suggesting utter chaos when the protests were mostly peaceful?

Is it right wing bias to focus on the bad actions of a subset of protestors rather than the repeated excess of police officers apparently beyond reach for any consequences unless there are literal riots?

Or is it left wing bias to imply that riots is the only way that "bad egg" police officers will ever be held to account?

... I don't think incongruence between a headline and a backdrop is particularly clear evidence of a particular bias.

It's often said of the news - "If it bleeds, it leads".

The news story here isn't the peaceful protesters - it's the rioting.  It's the entire reason that CNN went to Kenosha, Wisconsin in the first place.  There were lots of peaceful protests around the country that weren't covered by CNN.

Put another way - if there's a school shooting, you don't put up a news chyron saying "deadly school shooting, but otherwise peaceful day for most students".

The presumed good faith reasoning though of the chyron writer though was - the protestors have a very valid point, so I want to minimize as much as I can the violence that's going on in order to not take away from that valid point.  And the bias shows through in that nobody else in CNN realized why that particular news chyron was so ridiculous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 08, 2021, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 03:47:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 08, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Coverage of the Republican convention should have started sooner?

This was in the aftermath of George Floyd's death, which led to widespread protests in the summer of 2020 over racial justice.  It was noted by many that the MSM A: did not criticize the protestors for violating public health orders, and B: minimized the amount of damage/violence that occurred in some locations, since the cause of the protestors was just.


And it talking about liberal bias, it's not that it's malicious or even intentional.  But at these national media companies, they're run out of big cities, and the employees are all university graduates, often of large prestigious schools.  Just the natural demographics of what I just described mean the employees are going to be liberal/progressive types.  CNN is not staffing itself from community college graduates from the midwest.

As they say - "fish don't know they're wet".

Well I thought it was a funny comment to make.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 08, 2021, 03:58:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 03:47:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 08, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Coverage of the Republican convention should have started sooner?

This was in the aftermath of George Floyd's death, which led to widespread protests in the summer of 2020 over racial justice.  It was noted by many that the MSM A: did not criticize the protestors for violating public health orders, and B: minimized the amount of damage/violence that occurred in some locations, since the cause of the protestors was just.


And it talking about liberal bias, it's not that it's malicious or even intentional.  But at these national media companies, they're run out of big cities, and the employees are all university graduates, often of large prestigious schools.  Just the natural demographics of what I just described mean the employees are going to be liberal/progressive types.  CNN is not staffing itself from community college graduates from the midwest.

As they say - "fish don't know they're wet".

To my mind, the issue isn't one of bias. Everyone without exception has their biases - depending on background, upbringing, experiences, etc.

However, I do not believe these factors are totally determinative of outcomes (and in this, I differ from both some progressives, and some conservatives!). The issue is this: can individuals, despite whatever biases they may have, report accurately and without introducing so much distortion that the news as reported by them becomes misleading?

Some can and some can't. Unfortunately, those on the right, who complain the most loudly about "liberal bias" in the media, sought to correct that perceived problem by creating news sources of their own from a right wing POV. This is not inherently problematic (as noted, having a bias isn't in and of itself problematic). However, in most cases, these media sources engaged in more or less deliberate distortion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 08, 2021, 03:58:56 PM
"Otherwise peaceful protests at US Capitol marred by unruly behavior."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 08, 2021, 04:01:29 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 08, 2021, 03:58:05 PM

To my mind, the issue isn't one of bias. Everyone without exception has their biases - depending on background, upbringing, experiences, etc.

However, I do not believe these factors are totally determinative of outcomes (and in this, I differ from both some progressives, and some conservatives!). The issue is this: can individuals, despite whatever biases they may have, report accurately and without introducing so much distortion that the news as reported by them becomes misleading?

Some can and some can't. Unfortunately, those on the right, who complain the most loudly about "liberal bias" in the media, sought to correct that perceived problem by creating news sources of their own from a right wing POV. This is not inherently problematic (as noted, having a bias isn't in and of itself problematic). However, in most cases, these media sources engaged in more or less deliberate distortion.

Setting out to present information from a particular point of view is not itself problematic.  The decision to be balanced is itself a reflection of liberal democratic values.  And I agree with you that the problem with right wing media is the intention to mislead in order to obtain a political objective - liberal tears.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 04:03:54 PM
Yeah when I call out the MSM for having a liberal bias I'm not calling for any particular response.  I'm not asking for government mandates or rules that need to be applied.  I'm just pointing out the bias.  Most institutions, most people, have a bias of one way or another.

It's just basic media literacy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 04:40:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 01:39:31 PM
The mainstream media has a bias towards posting reality.

If you define reality as "liberal", then you are correct.

Note: I am not claiming the mainstream media doesn't have serious problems. It does. Liberal bias is not one of them however.

:rolleyes:

Okay, so what are the problems of the mainstream media?


Completely broken incentives has removed took much adult editorial control and turned a lot of mainstream media into barely better then tabloid click bait.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 04:41:41 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 08, 2021, 02:09:43 PM
All media has bias, it's inescapable. Whether it's defined as liberal, conservative, centrist, nationalist, or pretended to not exist is in the eye of the beholder.

That isn't the question though - the claim is that there is a "mainstream liberal media bias" meaning that there is a systemic specific bias shared by some great portion of the media.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 04:45:11 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 08, 2021, 03:36:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 08, 2021, 03:32:17 PM
"Liberal media bias" is and has always been a political strategy by conservatives.  I think it started in the Nixon administration as a way to deflect criticism of the war in Vietnam and later Watergate.
Just because it's a political strategy doesn't mean there is no substance behind it.  Hitting Trump on his Covid response was a political strategy in 2020, but that doesn't mean that his response wasn't in fact abysmal.

In this case the aim was to convince the American people that the war in Vietnam was going well and that Richard Nixon didn't do anything wrong.  I would say that the political strategy didn't have much substance to it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2021, 04:03:54 PM
Yeah when I call out the MSM for having a liberal bias I'm not calling for any particular response.  I'm not asking for government mandates or rules that need to be applied.  I'm just pointing out the bias.  Most institutions, most people, have a bias of one way or another.

It's just basic media literacy. It's just basic Fox News speaking points I heard from Tucker Carlson!

FYP
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 04:51:10 PM
Saying the media as a whole has a "liberal" bias is a classic definitional fallacy, when presented in this way.

It is like saying the urban areas have a liberal bias, when you define liberal as "not rural".

The conservatives have defined themselves as being anti-fact, anti-science, and anti-society. The media, being a tool of society that in theory at least is about telling us things about what is actually going on (however imperfectly) is only liberal biased if in fact you define liberal as being factual, in favor of science and reality. Then it is in fact biased towards liberalism, but then you can say the same thing about education and science (and of course many conservatives do in fact say exactly that - even Beebs makes that mistake when he points out that journalists, you know....have college degrees and hence are educated and probably did so in a place with universities, like a city).

"The sun rises in the east and sets in the west" is liberal bias if you define conservative as "Jesus says the sun rises in the north and sets in the east, and I am a good conservative so that MUST be true!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 04:59:56 PM
Just ot be clear - I am not arguing that specific media outlets don't have bias, and those may very well be liberal in their bias.

So even the example he cited (which Jake very neatly eviscerated, well done) doesn't actually speak to his claim anyway. If he was arguing that CNN was biased, then perhaps that might be relevant, but we already knew that (and conceded it in fact) when I posed the ad fontes media link that shows....yep CNN has a liberal bias - it "skews left".

He has a much more serious claim though - not that there are some specifically biased media sources that lean left, but that it is so pervasive that it can be said that overall, the media itself is biased towards liberals. That is simply and clearly not supported by actual data beyond a lot of right wing whining over the last several decades as justification for their embrace of specifically and transparently grossly tribal and jingoistic "media". I don't buy that for a second. Conservatives don't watch Fox because there is no non-right wing alternative. They watch it because it tells them exactly what they want to hear, and they value people telling them what they want to hear more then they value actual information or the truth. If they did not want to hear that, they would not watch Fox, and likely (at this point) would not even call themselves "conservative" anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 08, 2021, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 04:59:56 PM
He has a much more serious claim though - not that there are some specifically biased media sources that lean left, but that it is so pervasive that it can be said that overall, the media itself is biased towards liberals. That is simply and clearly not supported by actual data beyond a lot of right wing whining over the last several decades as justification for their embrace of specifically and transparently grossly tribal and jingoistic "media". I don't buy that for a second. Conservatives don't watch Fox because there is no non-right wing alternative. They watch it because it tells them exactly what they want to hear, and they value people telling them what they want to hear more then they value actual information or the truth. If they did not want to hear that, they would not watch Fox, and likely (at this point) would not even call themselves "conservative" anymore.

But he is correct.  Just not in the way he thinks.  There are the right wing media outlets who make no bones about outright lying and when challenged in court say they are only entertainers that no reasonable person would take seriously.  And then there are the serious media outlets who, by definition, are to the left of the right wing media simply by the fact that they do not intentionally lie.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 08, 2021, 05:18:51 PM
The problem with "the MSM have a liberal bias" argument is that it is defended using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy (see, for example, pretty much any Beeb post on the issue).  What is true, I think, is that the kinds of people who go into journalism tend to be the kinds of people who think that problems can be solved, if they are exposed.  Conservatives tend to be much more skeptical that problems can be solved.  So, they see this desire to expose problems as "liberal bias."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 05:19:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 08, 2021, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 08, 2021, 04:59:56 PM
He has a much more serious claim though - not that there are some specifically biased media sources that lean left, but that it is so pervasive that it can be said that overall, the media itself is biased towards liberals. That is simply and clearly not supported by actual data beyond a lot of right wing whining over the last several decades as justification for their embrace of specifically and transparently grossly tribal and jingoistic "media". I don't buy that for a second. Conservatives don't watch Fox because there is no non-right wing alternative. They watch it because it tells them exactly what they want to hear, and they value people telling them what they want to hear more then they value actual information or the truth. If they did not want to hear that, they would not watch Fox, and likely (at this point) would not even call themselves "conservative" anymore.

But he is correct.  Just not in the way he thinks.  There are the right wing media outlets who make no bones about outright lying and when challenged in court say they are only entertainers that no reasonable person would take seriously.  And then there are the serious media outlets who, by definition, are to the left of the right wing media simply by the fact that they do not intentionally lie.

He is correct in exactly the manner I described.

It is a tuatalogical fallacy though. If you define liberal bias as being "not right wing bias" then of course he is correct.

But that isn't what he actually means when he casually tosses the phrase around like Sean Hannity. He doesn't mean there exists media that is not right wing media, and that is not how conservatives use the term, even if they might retreat to that definition when challenged.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 09, 2021, 01:01:05 AM
You're right.  How could I be so foolish.  There is clearly no bias on the part of CNN, NYT, CBC and the like.

Please forgive my apostasy on this point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 09, 2021, 01:40:26 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 09, 2021, 01:01:05 AM
You're right.  How could I be so foolish.  There is clearly no bias on the part of CNN, NYT, CBC and the like.

Please forgive my apostasy on this point.

Didn't, Berkut, already say that CNN leans liberal?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 09, 2021, 02:00:20 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 09, 2021, 01:01:05 AM
You're right.  How could I be so foolish.  There is clearly no bias on the part of CNN, NYT, CBC and the like.

Please forgive my apostasy on this point.

I am quite certain I addressed this attempt already to move the goalposts.

Nobody ever said there was "no bias". That is a new claim now - before it was LIBERAL bias.

And LIBERAL bias pervasive in the mainstream media, which means some significant portion of it, not just a few examples. You seem to lack the courage of your original conviction so much that you are trying to pretend you never said anything at all about "mainstream liberal media bias".

Finally, I posted a reasonably objective, and neutral source of data about this EXACT topic, and you seem reluctant to comment on that....why is that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 09, 2021, 02:02:02 AM
I am once again just fascinated by the level of cognitive dissonance people I know are bright, reasonable people can display.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 09, 2021, 02:35:27 AM
I think one could be forgiven for concluding CNN and its ilk represent the authoritative strain of journalism in this country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 09, 2021, 09:36:00 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 08, 2021, 05:11:52 PM
But he is correct.  Just not in the way he thinks.  There are the right wing media outlets who make no bones about outright lying and when challenged in court say they are only entertainers that no reasonable person would take seriously.  And then there are the serious media outlets who, by definition, are to the left of the right wing media simply by the fact that they do not intentionally lie.
it's not exclusive to right wing media outlets.  Although Fox News and OAN always come first in mind, for which I am unaware of an equivalent on the left, there are a number of tv&radio shows solidly tilted to the left who will not shy at spouting nonsense for all their duration.  And there's a lot of newspapers/online medias skewed to the left who don't exactly bother with the truth.

La Presse.ca and the Globe&Mail may be generally factual in their reporting (same for Fox News), but when it comes to opinion pieces, it's hardly "neutral" or even "factual" most of the time.  They publish what their readers want to see.  For the G&M, that includes a good dose of Quebec bashing, just like the National Post, facts be damned. With La Presse you can have really insane, near conspiracy theory leftwing bias in their columns, and these journalists will often resort to the same tacticts they decy in their opponents.

But they are usually saved by a few, honest, good working and intelligent journalists that do really fact-check everything.  I whish there were more of them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 09, 2021, 09:46:30 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/245143915_10219977659447814_7594560592599575763_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=-xSkqQL44jYAX_kDNO9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fdc8e7a5120b85b7a93adebca2ec005c&oe=61660B83)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 09, 2021, 10:16:17 AM
Murray Rothbard is dead...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 09, 2021, 10:28:10 AM
That's Murray American Flag Emoji. They're easy to confuse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 09, 2021, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 09, 2021, 10:16:17 AM
Murray Rothbard is dead...

He should be if he's born in 1776. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 09, 2021, 11:06:17 AM
Quote from: Syt on October 09, 2021, 09:46:30 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/245143915_10219977659447814_7594560592599575763_n.jg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=-xSkqQL44jYAX_kDNO9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=fdc8e7a5120b85b7a93adebca2ec005c&oe=61660B83)

Again its funny as from all I've heard the indoctrination that does happen is far more in the direction they approve of.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 11, 2021, 09:38:19 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 08, 2021, 05:18:51 PM
The problem with "the MSM have a liberal bias" argument is that it is defended using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy (see, for example, pretty much any Beeb post on the issue).

Indeed. There are massive right wing media entities out there but I guess they aren't main stream for some reason. If you just identify only the liberal biased news sources to be main stream, then I guess it will always have a liberal bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 12, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
To me it looks like this: right wing media isn't "main stream" because it is so obviously partisan and - often - brazenly dishonest. So there's no expectation that right wing media is supposed to be anything other than propaganda, and attempts at holding it to any sort of standard is cast as an attack on free speech.

Any media that's not explicitly right wing is considered "main stream" and anytime there is a lack of support for right wing bias it's decried as evidence of unfair "liberal bias". No matter how much "main stream" media provides space for right wing voices, no matter how much they attempt to show "both sides", it is always insufficient and proof of "liberal bias".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 12, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
To me it looks like this: right wing media isn't "main stream" because it is so obviously partisan and - often - brazenly dishonest. So there's no expectation that right wing media is supposed to be anything other than propaganda, and attempts at holding it to any sort of standard is cast as an attack on free speech.

Any media that's not explicitly right wing is considered "main stream" and anytime there is a lack of support for right wing bias it's decried as evidence of unfair "liberal bias". No matter how much "main stream" media provides space for right wing voices, no matter how much they attempt to show "both sides", it is always insufficient and proof of "liberal bias".

There are obviously partisan left-wing media sources.  Jacobin, rabble.ca, Daily Kos, Mother Jones, etc.

You can have partisan news sources - nothing wrong with that.  Where the criticism comes from is these large national media companies that claim to not have any inherent political bias, but many perceive them to have such a bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 12, 2021, 12:46:34 PM
We can't do anything about what people "perceive" especially when they are told to perceive it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 12, 2021, 12:56:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2021, 12:46:34 PM
We can't do anything about what people "perceive" especially when they are told to perceive it.

Exactly so.  BB's "many perceive" is code for many on the right who don't like their ideological and policy shortcomings to be questioned.  Anytime a journalist asks hard questions of a right wing politician cries of media bias are sure to follow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 12, 2021, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
There are obviously partisan left-wing media sources.  Jacobin, rabble.ca, Daily Kos, Mother Jones, etc.

Definitely.

QuoteYou can have partisan news sources - nothing wrong with that.  Where the criticism comes from is these large national media companies that claim to not have any inherent political bias, but many perceive them to have such a bias.

Definitely, but the perception of bias depends on where you sit. There are also perceptions that the mainstream media has a right-wing, conservative (small c), anti-left wing bias.

And thus, there are plenty of people who can absolutely - and in good faith - deny that the mainstream media has a liberal bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 12, 2021, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 12, 2021, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
There are obviously partisan left-wing media sources.  Jacobin, rabble.ca, Daily Kos, Mother Jones, etc.

Definitely.

QuoteYou can have partisan news sources - nothing wrong with that.  Where the criticism comes from is these large national media companies that claim to not have any inherent political bias, but many perceive them to have such a bias.

Definitely, but the perception of bias depends on where you sit. There are also perceptions that the mainstream media has a right-wing, conservative (small c), anti-left wing bias.

And thus, there are plenty of people who can absolutely - and in good faith - deny that the mainstream media has a liberal bias.

Lets not start misusing the word liberal the same way the Americans do.  :P

media as we know it exists because we and other liberal democracies have, well, liberal democratic forms of government. The fact that people on both the right and left can think the media is biased toward the other side is because they both see their side being questioned - if the media is WAD.  When politicians get an easy ride then the case for bias is stronger and when media turns into a cheering section then the bias is clear.

I think the case for right wing media bias is strong.  Until recently most media outlets had adopted the fiscal conservative speaking points.  Hell most parties of the left did so as well until recently. Now even parties on the right are backing away from what had become economic orthodoxy.  It  will be interesting to see how reporting changes over the next few years in light of those changes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 12, 2021, 01:26:23 PM
It's an odd debate.  The big cable news networks are big businesses that chase ratings and advertising $$.  CNN broadcast countless of hours of Trump events unedited in 2015/6 - not because they were some right-wing mouthpiece for the Trump wing but because it got ratings.  The Trump rallies made for better TV than Jeb Bush rallies or coverage of bills on Capitol Hill so CNN aired them. As for Fox News, if Murdoch believed he could increase revenues by tacking left and going full NeverTrump. does anyone doubt he'd do that in a heatbeat?   If C-SPAN got better ratings than the cable news giants, programming would change across the board at the cable news outlets, and fast. 

News journalists tend to have certain backgrounds and viewpoints, on average.  They tend to be college educated, with strengths more in humanities than the sciences.  They tend to be more urban than average. They tend to favor the First Amendment (in America).  They are employed professionals who make a decent living and most have little direct experience with poverty; at the same time, they are used to seeing contemporaries and college friends in careers that may be more lucrative. They deal very regularly and intimately with major institutions like Congress, the Courts, the Fed, large corporations and foundations - which inclines them to a certain degree of both empathy with but also skepticism of such institutions. They face very tight and short-term deadlines and pressures to find stories that stand out in a crowded field.  They work in a field with undefined but fairly well-understood hierarchies of prestige and have a professional ethic in which it is understood that higher prestige professionals are expected to comport themselves in particular ways (eg including suppression of manifestations of overt political views).

All these tendencies can result in cognitive biases or particular points of view.  Some of them do indeed skew in a "liberal" direction, but others do not, and the precise ways that biases or skews can manifest is a lot more complex than the simple model of a monolithic liberal press bias.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 01:41:33 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 12, 2021, 01:26:23 PM
It's an odd debate.  The big cable news networks are big businesses that chase ratings and advertising $$.  CNN broadcast countless of hours of Trump events unedited in 2015/6 - not because they were some right-wing mouthpiece for the Trump wing but because it got ratings.  The Trump rallies made for better TV than Jeb Bush rallies or coverage of bills on Capitol Hill so CNN aired them. As for Fox News, if Murdoch believed he could increase revenues by tacking left and going full NeverTrump. does anyone doubt he'd do that in a heatbeat?   If C-SPAN got better ratings than the cable news giants, programming would change across the board at the cable news outlets, and fast. 

News journalists tend to have certain backgrounds and viewpoints, on average.  They tend to be college educated, with strengths more in humanities than the sciences.  They tend to be more urban than average. They tend to favor the First Amendment (in America).  They are employed professionals who make a decent living and most have little direct experience with poverty; at the same time, they are used to seeing contemporaries and college friends in careers that may be more lucrative. They deal very regularly and intimately with major institutions like Congress, the Courts, the Fed, large corporations and foundations - which inclines them to a certain degree of both empathy with but also skepticism of such institutions. They face very tight and short-term deadlines and pressures to find stories that stand out in a crowded field.  They work in a field with undefined but fairly well-understood hierarchies of prestige and have a professional ethic in which it is understood that higher prestige professionals are expected to comport themselves in particular ways (eg including suppression of manifestations of overt political views).

All these tendencies can result in cognitive biases or particular points of view.  Some of them do indeed skew in a "liberal" direction, but others do not, and the precise ways that biases or skews can manifest is a lot more complex than the simple model of a monolithic liberal press bias.

This is what I've been trying to say.  Who has been arguing for a "monolithic liberal press bias".

Large national media outlets hire well educated people, often from a fairly limited number of schools, and work in large urban cities.  All of which tends to skew to a certain kind of liberal bias.  But there's nothing monolithic about it, and certainly not organized or conspiratorial.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 12, 2021, 01:45:42 PM
More code - what is the "certain kind of liberal bias" you are talking about?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 12, 2021, 01:50:25 PM
The careerist angle cannot be underestimated.
Tucker Carlson used to be a genial dorky guy in a bow tie talking about supply side economics; now he is a creepy edgelord pushing anti-vaxxing and racist talking points.  Who is the real Tucker Carlson?  None of them of course.  Both "Tucker Carlsons" are characters designed for TV.  The old character was dropped when its ratings fell, the new character has been developed further as its ratings have gone up, much as would be done on a sitcom or drama series. It holds for print media as well - certain writers play to a certain persona.  That always has to be kept in mind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 01:53:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 12, 2021, 01:45:42 PM
More code - what is the "certain kind of liberal bias" you are talking about?

As in not radical leftist let's seize the means of production kind of liberal.  The kinds of people who are proud to identify as progressives despite being top income earners.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 12, 2021, 01:55:17 PM
My take is that the mainstream media has for a long time had two main biases:  bias towards sensationalism, and bias towards perceived victims of social justice issues.  There is a lot of intersection between the two, and more often than not these biases tend to fall on the left side of the debate by default.  If you assume that police shootings are an act of police brutality until proven otherwise, then you're in practice biased to the left.

Since the Trump times, there may also be a third kind of bias:  fear of unintentionally helping the right wing talking points.  Sometimes presenting an issue in a nuanced way opens you up towards being taken out of context, and right wingers sure like taking things out of context to support their insanity.  Unfortunately, if you filter your reporting to guard against it, you also filter out balanced reporting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on October 12, 2021, 02:00:41 PM
It's like watching a college football game.  Unless the announcers are the two from your school, outrageous homers who are shocked at every call against your team, they are biased against everything good, right and true (which is of course, good old University of My Allegiance).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 12, 2021, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 01:53:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 12, 2021, 01:45:42 PM
More code - what is the "certain kind of liberal bias" you are talking about?

As in not radical leftist let's seize the means of production kind of liberal.  The kinds of people who are proud to identify as progressives despite being top income earners.

There are liberals who are Marxists?  Please stop butchering the language BB  :P

Why use the word "despite" there.  Is there some income cut off at which someone needs to turn their brain off and subscribe to modern day conservative ideology?

All that aside, does one need to not identify as a progressive in order to report fairly?  Or do you really just want a right wing homer?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 12, 2021, 02:48:08 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 12, 2021, 01:55:17 PM
My take is that the mainstream media has for a long time had two main biases:  bias towards sensationalism, and bias towards perceived victims of social justice issues.  There is a lot of intersection between the two, and more often than not these biases tend to fall on the left side of the debate by default.  If you assume that police shootings are an act of police brutality until proven otherwise, then you're in practice biased to the left.

Yes.  The need for a villain, plus a preference for certain favored groups.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 12, 2021, 02:51:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 12, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
To me it looks like this: right wing media isn't "main stream" because it is so obviously partisan and - often - brazenly dishonest. So there's no expectation that right wing media is supposed to be anything other than propaganda, and attempts at holding it to any sort of standard is cast as an attack on free speech.

Any media that's not explicitly right wing is considered "main stream" and anytime there is a lack of support for right wing bias it's decried as evidence of unfair "liberal bias". No matter how much "main stream" media provides space for right wing voices, no matter how much they attempt to show "both sides", it is always insufficient and proof of "liberal bias".

There are obviously partisan left-wing media sources.  Jacobin, rabble.ca, Daily Kos, Mother Jones, etc.

You can have partisan news sources - nothing wrong with that.  Where the criticism comes from is these large national media companies that claim to not have any inherent political bias, but many perceive them to have such a bias.

What is interesting is that you stick to this claim (tempered now by arguing that "many perceive them, rather then yourself), despite being provided with actual objective, measured evidence that it is simply not true.

You refuse to even speak to that evidence, and just continue on the argument as if it was not presented at all.

https://adfontesmedia.com/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 03:06:46 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 12, 2021, 02:51:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 12, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
To me it looks like this: right wing media isn't "main stream" because it is so obviously partisan and - often - brazenly dishonest. So there's no expectation that right wing media is supposed to be anything other than propaganda, and attempts at holding it to any sort of standard is cast as an attack on free speech.

Any media that's not explicitly right wing is considered "main stream" and anytime there is a lack of support for right wing bias it's decried as evidence of unfair "liberal bias". No matter how much "main stream" media provides space for right wing voices, no matter how much they attempt to show "both sides", it is always insufficient and proof of "liberal bias".

There are obviously partisan left-wing media sources.  Jacobin, rabble.ca, Daily Kos, Mother Jones, etc.

You can have partisan news sources - nothing wrong with that.  Where the criticism comes from is these large national media companies that claim to not have any inherent political bias, but many perceive them to have such a bias.

What is interesting is that you stick to this claim (tempered now by arguing that "many perceive them, rather then yourself), despite being provided with actual objective, measured evidence that it is simply not true.

You refuse to even speak to that evidence, and just continue on the argument as if it was not presented at all.

https://adfontesmedia.com/

If you look at the top of your chart, there's a line in the middle.  It's the political middle.  There's also a green line for the most news value.  Lets just look above that line.

To the right side of that political middle line is the Wall Street Journal, Fox Business, The Dispatch (big fan), and a couple outlets I don't recognize.

On the left side... NBC, CBS, ABC, NPR, AP, Reuters, Forbes, New York Times, the Guardian, CNN (web), the Economist, the Hill, Vox, Vice, Politico, the Hill, and a pile more I don't recognize.

You sure this proves there's no bias in the mainstream media?


It also loses points for saying The Bulwark skews left.  Another outlet I'm a fan of, but just because they're anti-Trump does not make them left wing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on October 12, 2021, 05:04:07 PM
If news agencies that basically just report stuff matter-of-factly and the friggin' Economist are considered as left-leaning, that already gives you a pretty clear picture of how fucked up the media landscape is becoming.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 12, 2021, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2021, 12:46:34 PM
We can't do anything about what people "perceive" especially when they are told to perceive it.
Would you seriously try to make us believe the New York Times and CNN have zero bias in their choice of news, their choice of titles and how they present the information and opinion of their respective media?  That all of this exist in the minds of conservatives of all horizons?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 12, 2021, 05:25:57 PM
I don't think anybody on earth has zero bias. The only question is the extent they are making an honest effort to overcome their bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 12, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 12, 2021, 05:25:57 PM
I don't think anybody on earth has zero bias. The only question is the extent they are making an honest effort to overcome their bias.
Well, for OAN, Fox News and that other pro-Trump network, the answer would be 0.

But the NYT opinion columns and editorials don't really make any kind of effort to show their far left bias anymore.  The Washington Post seems to have move further left in that last few years too, but overall, it still remains balanced, unlike the NYT that actively seek to expel anyone not "pure" enough.

There are also fringe medias/web sites on the left&far left, quite the equivalent of Fox News.

You'll need to take into account that we ain't talking stricly about US medias here.  French newspaper are notoriously biased to the left, except for Le Figaro.  It's even worst for Quebec.  Traditional right-wing written medias seems to have taken a turn for the woke, lately. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 12, 2021, 06:42:13 PM
Keep in mind that students are taught to suppress bias in journalism school.  I think most take that seriously.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 12, 2021, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 03:06:46 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 12, 2021, 02:51:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 12, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 12, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
To me it looks like this: right wing media isn't "main stream" because it is so obviously partisan and - often - brazenly dishonest. So there's no expectation that right wing media is supposed to be anything other than propaganda, and attempts at holding it to any sort of standard is cast as an attack on free speech.

Any media that's not explicitly right wing is considered "main stream" and anytime there is a lack of support for right wing bias it's decried as evidence of unfair "liberal bias". No matter how much "main stream" media provides space for right wing voices, no matter how much they attempt to show "both sides", it is always insufficient and proof of "liberal bias".

There are obviously partisan left-wing media sources.  Jacobin, rabble.ca, Daily Kos, Mother Jones, etc.

You can have partisan news sources - nothing wrong with that.  Where the criticism comes from is these large national media companies that claim to not have any inherent political bias, but many perceive them to have such a bias.

What is interesting is that you stick to this claim (tempered now by arguing that "many perceive them, rather then yourself), despite being provided with actual objective, measured evidence that it is simply not true.

You refuse to even speak to that evidence, and just continue on the argument as if it was not presented at all.

https://adfontesmedia.com/

If you look at the top of your chart, there's a line in the middle.  It's the political middle.  There's also a green line for the most news value.  Lets just look above that line.

To the right side of that political middle line is the Wall Street Journal, Fox Business, The Dispatch (big fan), and a couple outlets I don't recognize.

On the left side... NBC, CBS, ABC, NPR, AP, Reuters, Forbes, New York Times, the Guardian, CNN (web), the Economist, the Hill, Vox, Vice, Politico, the Hill, and a pile more I don't recognize.

You sure this proves there's no bias in the mainstream media?


It also loses points for saying The Bulwark skews left.  Another outlet I'm a fan of, but just because they're anti-Trump does not make them left wing.

Wow, that is some serious goalpost dancing.

1. I never claimed there was no bias in the mainstream media.
2. Your claim is very clear - that "the mainstream media has a liberal bias".

That doesn't mean that if we carefully add it all up, there is some slight lean left. It means that there is so much bias, that it is reasonable to conclude that the totality of what is the "mainstream media" is biased such that very general statements are applicable.

It's amusing really. You say "Hey, lets look at the ones in the "decent media" box, and evaluate them!" But you don't bother adding "...and lets limit it to the ones that they actually say fall in the middle of the bias spectrum....". Nope, you just pretend that data is nowhere to be found.

Consumers of media who care should be looking for high reliability, low bias media. And they can trivially find it - its right there. There are a bunch of those that cluster right around the middle, some a little left, some a little right, but overall, it is trivial to find unbiased, mainstream media, or some mix of mainstream media that balances bias.  There is no actual problem of mainstream media bias that has any bearing on some theoretical moderate conservative desperate to find some decent news, but there just isn't any to be found in that liberal evil mainstream media! Whatever shall we do???

I guess we just get our news from Tucker Carlson....its a damn shame there isn't ANY mainstream media that isn't biased against those poor conservatives!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 12, 2021, 10:58:05 PM
BTW, my point here is NOT to beat up on poor Beebs.

It is to call out a narrative that he is parroting -that the mainstream media is all biased, so we might as well just watch Fox News, which is biased, but at least they admit it!

This is the same playbook Russia Times uses. You don't have to be credible yourself, you just have to attack the very idea that there is ANY source of credible news, so that you can hold up that fig leaf of justifying your own insane partisanship and rejection of truth. The actual partisan right wing media has learned from this and has sustained a very conscious, careful, and intentional attack on the media in the US.

This is incredibly dangerous to liberal democracy. And it is happening right now, and it is succeeding, and the parroted little narrative from what one would expect to be sane conservatives is enabling and extending it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 13, 2021, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 12, 2021, 10:58:05 PM
It is to call out a narrative that he is parroting -that the mainstream media is all biased, so we might as well just watch Fox News, which is biased, but at least they admit it!

At not point in this conversation have I read any post by Beeb that could reasonably be construed as "might as well watch Fox."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 13, 2021, 12:21:54 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 13, 2021, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 12, 2021, 10:58:05 PM
It is to call out a narrative that he is parroting -that the mainstream media is all biased, so we might as well just watch Fox News, which is biased, but at least they admit it!

At not point in this conversation have I read any post by Beeb that could reasonably be construed as "might as well watch Fox."

If in fact the mainstream media is all liberal biased, then the breadcrumbs are pretty clear - you might as well watch biased right wing news, since there isn't a non-liberal option.

Note that even the media he cites as being right leaning but credible....is all mainstream media. The WSJ is mainstream media, and his claim is that the mainstream media is biased towards liberals. Which is certainly why they parroted the "Biden won the election!" lie.

That is the very media the people who engaged in a insurrection on Jan. 6 rejects as "mainstream media" and lies.

When my sister says the election was stolen, and I point out that there was no evidence it was stolen, her response is "but how do you know that - the mainstream media is all fake liberal bullshit!" And pointing out that the WSJ is hardly liberal doesn't help - obviously it is, because it is mainstream, and hence part of the great conspiracy.

If you reject the mainstream media because you don't want liberal biased news, then what is left is in fact Fox and OAN and Breitbart. The "mainstream media liberal bias" is the foundational lie of the rightwing media that has enabled all of the following lies. It is the absolutely necessary pre-condition of all that has followed.

Yes, if you buy into the base lie that the "mainstream media has a liberal bias" then in fact it most definitely follows that one should watch Fox and all the rest. What other alternative is there? It can't be the WSJ - that is mainstream media.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 13, 2021, 12:28:32 AM
The other alternative is to continue to consume mainstream media skeptically and critically.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 13, 2021, 12:34:44 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 13, 2021, 12:28:32 AM
The other alternative is to continue to consume mainstream media skeptically and critically.

One should do that anyway.

But that is not the narrative that "the mainstream media is all liberal" is trying to create. When you listen to Rush preaching that for the last 30 years, he didn't follow up with an admonition to treat Fox with some healthy skepticism as well.

Rather it is that the media is all a bunch of liars and there is no truth and you should just trust us that Obama is a secret Muslim and Clinton ran a pizza pedo ring and lets go have a chat with Mike Pence down at the Capitol about that stolen election.

You don't get to parrot the basic lie and then act SHOCKED, SHOCKED I SAY! when people actually believe it and act on it.

The reality is that there is no objective evidence that the mainstream media actually has a liberal bias in any way that means anything at all. If the best you can get from this claim is that one should consume media with skepticism, the claim means nothing since that is true whether the claim about political bias is true or not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 13, 2021, 12:36:08 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 12, 2021, 01:26:23 PMAs for Fox News, if Murdoch believed he could increase revenues by tacking left and going full NeverTrump. does anyone doubt he'd do that in a heatbeat?

I think Murdoch is cagey enough and opportunistic enough to change horses as it suits him, but I don't think it's driven as much by profit (though I'm sure it figures), but by pursuit of influence and how he'd like to wield that influence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 13, 2021, 01:16:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 13, 2021, 12:34:44 AM
One should do that anyway.

But that is not the narrative that "the mainstream media is all liberal" is trying to create. When you listen to Rush preaching that for the last 30 years, he didn't follow up with an admonition to treat Fox with some healthy skepticism as well.

Rather it is that the media is all a bunch of liars and there is no truth and you should just trust us that Obama is a secret Muslim and Clinton ran a pizza pedo ring and lets go have a chat with Mike Pence down at the Capitol about that stolen election.

You don't get to parrot the basic lie and then act SHOCKED, SHOCKED I SAY! when people actually believe it and act on it.

The reality is that there is no objective evidence that the mainstream media actually has a liberal bias in any way that means anything at all. If the best you can get from this claim is that one should consume media with skepticism, the claim means nothing since that is true whether the claim about political bias is true or not.

The fact that a statement is used by bad people for bad purposes does not mean the statement is false.

Who's acting shocked about anything?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on October 13, 2021, 06:01:21 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 13, 2021, 01:16:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 13, 2021, 12:34:44 AM
One should do that anyway.

But that is not the narrative that "the mainstream media is all liberal" is trying to create. When you listen to Rush preaching that for the last 30 years, he didn't follow up with an admonition to treat Fox with some healthy skepticism as well.

Rather it is that the media is all a bunch of liars and there is no truth and you should just trust us that Obama is a secret Muslim and Clinton ran a pizza pedo ring and lets go have a chat with Mike Pence down at the Capitol about that stolen election.

You don't get to parrot the basic lie and then act SHOCKED, SHOCKED I SAY! when people actually believe it and act on it.

The reality is that there is no objective evidence that the mainstream media actually has a liberal bias in any way that means anything at all. If the best you can get from this claim is that one should consume media with skepticism, the claim means nothing since that is true whether the claim about political bias is true or not.

The fact that a statement is used by bad people for bad purposes does not mean the statement is false.

Who's acting shocked about anything?

He needed it for the CAPS opportunity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 13, 2021, 07:57:26 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 12, 2021, 10:58:05 PM
BTW, my point here is NOT to beat up on poor Beebs.

It is to call out a narrative that he is parroting -that the mainstream media is all biased, so we might as well just watch Fox News, which is biased, but at least they admit it!

Fuck off Berkut.  That's an incredible job of strawmanning, even for you.

Barrister out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 09:18:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2021, 06:42:13 PM
Keep in mind that students are taught to suppress bias in journalism school.  I think most take that seriously.
and finance students are taught ethics in their classes too.  Yet, I keep hearing of these financial scandals everywhere, and this whole issue of tax heaven.

Can't really be happening, since they value their ethics seriously.  I'm just hallucinating. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 13, 2021, 09:49:45 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 09:18:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 12, 2021, 06:42:13 PM
Keep in mind that students are taught to suppress bias in journalism school.  I think most take that seriously.
and finance students are taught ethics in their classes too.  Yet, I keep hearing of these financial scandals everywhere, and this whole issue of tax heaven.

Can't really be happening, since they value their ethics seriously.  I'm just hallucinating. :)

Not sure what your point is.  Ethics instruction seems to work for about 99.999% of the finance students, so if you are saying that that instruction is equal to bias suppression training, then that must work for 99.999% of journalists, too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 13, 2021, 10:07:33 AM
If it was spelled Ethix maybe kids would pay attention.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 10:09:08 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 13, 2021, 09:49:45 AM
Ethics instruction seems to work for about 99.999% of the finance students, so if you are saying that that instruction is equal to bias suppression training, then that must work for 99.999% of journalists, too.
It's a tad lower than that, but I'll grant you that many people working in finance don't actually have a financial background.

My point is that there's no shortage of unethical financial advisors&general workers, just as there is no shortage of dishonest journalists.  Since we're dealing with human sciences when it comes to journalism, I guess most of them just don't realize how dishonest they can be. 

Trumped statistics are often used to justify their point, or simply looking at the wrong statistics.  Whenever they report on a scientific subject, they, generally, seem at their worst.  Like they don't understand at all what they're all talking about, but they don't really care to understand it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 10:12:50 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 13, 2021, 10:07:33 AM
If it was spelled Ethix maybe kids would pay attention.
I personally think that ethics, you get it or you don't.  No amount of classes, training are going to solve that.

It's like respecting women.  If you need to attend a class to realize that treating women like dirt is wrong, you're too far gone already.

I think it has more to how you were educated, from the youngest age, as to what we can teach you as an adult.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 13, 2021, 10:19:44 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 13, 2021, 09:49:45 AM
Ethics instruction seems to work for about 99.999% of the finance students,
If that's true, that sounds very damning of the ethics being taught.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 13, 2021, 10:22:59 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 10:12:50 AM
I personally think that ethics, you get it or you don't.  No amount of classes, training are going to solve that.

It's like respecting women.  If you need to attend a class to realize that treating women like dirt is wrong, you're too far gone already.
I think that's an awful, as well as cynical, take.  If you don't allow for the possibility that people can be naturally clueless, either because they have a blind spot or because they just haven't had the opportunity to think deeply about something, then you're going to be a very bitter person.  I think that goes both for ethics as well as for respecting women.  Sometimes you just have no idea because you haven't thought about it in that way rather than consciously rejected it, and education is a good way to get you to think about things.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 13, 2021, 11:17:44 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 12, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 12, 2021, 05:25:57 PM
I don't think anybody on earth has zero bias. The only question is the extent they are making an honest effort to overcome their bias.
Well, for OAN, Fox News and that other pro-Trump network, the answer would be 0.

But the NYT opinion columns and editorials don't really make any kind of effort to show their far left bias anymore.  The Washington Post seems to have move further left in that last few years too, but overall, it still remains balanced, unlike the NYT that actively seek to expel anyone not "pure" enough.

There are also fringe medias/web sites on the left&far left, quite the equivalent of Fox News.

You'll need to take into account that we ain't talking stricly about US medias here.  French newspaper are notoriously biased to the left, except for Le Figaro.  It's even worst for Quebec.  Traditional right-wing written medias seems to have taken a turn for the woke, lately. :(

The NYT is "far left"?  Viper, if that content is far left, how do you characterize content that advocates for actual socialism or communism, you know actual far left stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 13, 2021, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 10:09:08 AM
It's a tad lower than that, but I'll grant you that many people working in finance don't actually have a financial background.

My point is that there's no shortage of unethical financial advisors&general workers, just as there is no shortage of dishonest journalists.  Since we're dealing with human sciences when it comes to journalism, I guess most of them just don't realize how dishonest they can be. 

What argument are you trying to advance with the claim that "there is no shortage of dishonest journalists?"  Shortage means that supply is less than demand.  "No shortage" means that supply at least equals demand.  What is the demand, and how do you know this?  What is the supply, and how do you know this?  If you can't answer those questions, then your point is merely that you like talking out of your ass. The statement about "just don't realize how dishonest they can be" is ironic appearing here.

QuoteTrumped statistics are often used to justify their point, or simply looking at the wrong statistics.  Whenever they report on a scientific subject, they, generally, seem at their worst.  Like they don't understand at all what they're all talking about, but they don't really care to understand it.

Reporters getting the details wrong or misunderstanding the implications of the data is an ongoing problem dating back to the first reporter.  While your claim that some reporters  "don't really care to understand it," the flat unqualified statement that "they [reporters in general] don't really care to understand it" fails at even the first glance to be a calm and sane argument.  There are even lists https://prowly.com/magazine/top-science-reporters/ (https://prowly.com/magazine/top-science-reporters/) of reporters who can give new discoveries accurate and widespread coverage.  Note that the top science reporters include those from the NYT, WaPo, and WSJ - the very papers people here are accusing of being biased.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 13, 2021, 12:39:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 13, 2021, 01:16:21 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 13, 2021, 12:34:44 AM
One should do that anyway.

But that is not the narrative that "the mainstream media is all liberal" is trying to create. When you listen to Rush preaching that for the last 30 years, he didn't follow up with an admonition to treat Fox with some healthy skepticism as well.

Rather it is that the media is all a bunch of liars and there is no truth and you should just trust us that Obama is a secret Muslim and Clinton ran a pizza pedo ring and lets go have a chat with Mike Pence down at the Capitol about that stolen election.

You don't get to parrot the basic lie and then act SHOCKED, SHOCKED I SAY! when people actually believe it and act on it.

The reality is that there is no objective evidence that the mainstream media actually has a liberal bias in any way that means anything at all. If the best you can get from this claim is that one should consume media with skepticism, the claim means nothing since that is true whether the claim about political bias is true or not.

The fact that a statement is used by bad people for bad purposes does not mean the statement is false.

Who's acting shocked about anything?

The evidence that it is false has already been shown - your objection was around saying that Beebs never said anyone should watch Fox news.

1. The statement that the mainstream media is biased towards liberals is false - it is objectively false, and can be show to be so.

2. The *reason* that false claim has become such a right wing trope is not an accident. It is a concscious, deliberate attempt to drive people into radicalized, partisan bullshit like Fox news and OAN and Bretibart. And it has worked.

3. beebs and yourself are acting shocked that someone would possibly connect the "mainstream media is biased against poor conservatives!" and the actual outcomes of that successful narrative, which are things like insurrection and the breakdown in basic trust and a host of associated complete bullshit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 13, 2021, 05:30:37 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 13, 2021, 12:39:00 PM
The evidence that it is false has already been shown - your objection was around saying that Beebs never said anyone should watch Fox news.

1. The statement that the mainstream media is biased towards liberals is false - it is objectively false, and can be show to be so.

2. The *reason* that false claim has become such a right wing trope is not an accident. It is a concscious, deliberate attempt to drive people into radicalized, partisan bullshit like Fox news and OAN and Bretibart. And it has worked.

3. beebs and yourself are acting shocked that someone would possibly connect the "mainstream media is biased against poor conservatives!" and the actual outcomes of that successful narrative, which are things like insurrection and the breakdown in basic trust and a host of associated complete bullshit.

Earlier you had said that bias can not be objectively proved to exist.  Now you are saying it objectively does not.  That seems contradictory to me.

I didn't look at the look at the link you posted "disproving that all MSM is biased liberal," but I can infer from the discussion that followed that you are basing your argument on outlets like The Wall Street Journal being "mainstream" and not liberal.  As Beeb already pointed out, the statement that he and I are defending is not that every single member of the mainstream is liberal, but that a perponderance, including the biggest, highest visibility players, are liberal.

No one is acting shocked about anything.  I am merely pointing out that a discussion of what Rush Limbaugh's motivations were for pushing this narrative, and the consequences of doing so, have absolutely no relevance to the first question, which is do the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN etc. have liberal bias.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 13, 2021, 05:58:21 PM
This is stating the blindingly obvious, but if the concern in dishonesty in journalism, then that would point to placing greater reliance on mainstream media outlets that have meaningful editorial review and accountability as opposed to their insurgent competitors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 13, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 13, 2021, 05:58:21 PM
This is stating the blindingly obvious, but if the concern in dishonesty in journalism, then that would point to placing greater reliance on mainstream media outlets that have meaningful editorial review and accountability as opposed to their insurgent competitors.

BB's claim is that is where the true evil resides.  All those edumacated people who know stuff being all anti right and stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 13, 2021, 06:33:59 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 13, 2021, 05:58:21 PM
This is stating the blindingly obvious, but if the concern in dishonesty in journalism, then that would point to placing greater reliance on mainstream media outlets that have meaningful editorial review and accountability as opposed to their insurgent competitors.
The problem with this post is not that it's blindingly obvious, but rather that it attacks a strawman.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 13, 2021, 11:17:44 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 12, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 12, 2021, 05:25:57 PM
I don't think anybody on earth has zero bias. The only question is the extent they are making an honest effort to overcome their bias.
Well, for OAN, Fox News and that other pro-Trump network, the answer would be 0.

But the NYT opinion columns and editorials don't really make any kind of effort to show their far left bias anymore.  The Washington Post seems to have move further left in that last few years too, but overall, it still remains balanced, unlike the NYT that actively seek to expel anyone not "pure" enough.

There are also fringe medias/web sites on the left&far left, quite the equivalent of Fox News.

You'll need to take into account that we ain't talking stricly about US medias here.  French newspaper are notoriously biased to the left, except for Le Figaro.  It's even worst for Quebec.  Traditional right-wing written medias seems to have taken a turn for the woke, lately. :(

The NYT is "far left"?  Viper, if that content is far left, how do you characterize content that advocates for actual socialism or communism, you know actual far left stuff.

I characterize such content as fringe medias in the US.  Or "mainstream" for most european newspapers :P

Let's say it's generally much more left of the center than the Globe&Mail, but it seems to have gone fully on the wokist bandwagon since around the time Trump became President.  Maybe it was a reaction to the extreme right wing shift of some other medias and the US presidency.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 13, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
BB's claim is that is where the true evil resides.  All those edumacated people who know stuff being all anti right and stuff.

that ain't what he said.  at all.  and you know it perfectly well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 13, 2021, 07:12:20 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 13, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
BB's claim is that is where the true evil resides.  All those edumacated people who know stuff being all anti right and stuff.

that ain't what he said.  at all.  and you know it perfectly well.

You are right, he never said edumacated.  But he was making a pitch on behalf of the rural right wing so the shoe fits.

What he did say was "Large national media outlets hire well educated people, often from a fairly limited number of schools, and work in large urban cities.  All of which tends to skew to a certain kind of liberal bias.  But there's nothing monolithic about it, and certainly not organized or conspiratorial."

Can't have those well educated people running around making editorial decisions.  They are never going to be friendly to the far right.  And for good reason.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 13, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
Alright, so for the sake of argument let's say we agree to the proposition that "the mainstream media has a liberal bias". What do we do with that?

I think everyone here agrees that the Trumpist and hard right kookysphere follow up on that with "... so therefore you should disregard anything it says if it's inconvenient" and "... so therefore there's nothing wrong in chosing to believe our obvious lies." And I expect we all disagree with those conclusions.

There's also the conclusion that goes "so if there's a trend towards a liberal bias as a whole across mainstream media, you should strive to correct for that bias by consuming a wide range of credible media." And again I expect that is pretty uncontroversial here on languish?

Is there anything else we should do or other conclusions we can reach if we agree that the mainstream media has a liberal bias? Or is that about it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 13, 2021, 08:12:48 PM
Why do there need to be any conclusions?  I'm personally not a believer in "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions" mindset.  It makes no sense to pretend there is no problem if you have no solution.  Sometimes it's okay to notice that the sky is blue and yet to not also have any solution for that problem readily available.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 13, 2021, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 13, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
Alright, so for the sake of argument let's say we agree to the proposition that "the mainstream media has a liberal bias". What do we do with that?

We celebrate that fact.  The "liberal bias" is a bias in favor of speaking truth to power.  People go into journalism because they think that exposing problems results in solving problems.  Conservatives tend to be wary of the idea that all problems have solutions.  Th "mainstream journalist" doesn't follow the conservative bias because they wouldn't have gone into journalism if that is what they believed.

We need journalists who want to expose the truth, even if it results in the President resigning.  That's a "liberal bias."  Celebrate it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 13, 2021, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 13, 2021, 08:12:48 PM
Why do there need to be any conclusions?  I'm personally not a believer in "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions" mindset.  It makes no sense to pretend there is no problem if you have no solution.  Sometimes it's okay to notice that the sky is blue and yet to not also have any solution for that problem readily available.

Is the sky being blue a problem?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 13, 2021, 11:51:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 13, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 13, 2021, 05:58:21 PM
This is stating the blindingly obvious, but if the concern in dishonesty in journalism, then that would point to placing greater reliance on mainstream media outlets that have meaningful editorial review and accountability as opposed to their insurgent competitors.

BB's claim is that is where the true evil resides.  All those edumacated people who know stuff being all anti right and stuff.

You can fuck right off too.  I said nothing of the sort.

Fuckhead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 14, 2021, 12:51:25 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 13, 2021, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 13, 2021, 08:12:48 PM
Why do there need to be any conclusions?  I'm personally not a believer in "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions" mindset.  It makes no sense to pretend there is no problem if you have no solution.  Sometimes it's okay to notice that the sky is blue and yet to not also have any solution for that problem readily available.

Is the sky being blue a problem?

Solution: Pollution.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 14, 2021, 10:23:34 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 13, 2021, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 13, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
Alright, so for the sake of argument let's say we agree to the proposition that "the mainstream media has a liberal bias". What do we do with that?

We celebrate that fact.  The "liberal bias" is a bias in favor of speaking truth to power.  People go into journalism because they think that exposing problems results in solving problems.  Conservatives tend to be wary of the idea that all problems have solutions.  Th "mainstream journalist" doesn't follow the conservative bias because they wouldn't have gone into journalism if that is what they believed.

We need journalists who want to expose the truth, even if it results in the President resigning.  That's a "liberal bias."  Celebrate it.

To the extent that the claim is "true", it is true in a way that is uninteresting and not actionable by rational people who care about liberal democracy. It is true to the extent that being "not liberal" now means being anti-science, anti-truth, and anti-honesty. At least in the context of the claim that the "mainstream media" (which includes actual right leaning media, after all) is broadly biased in a liberal manner.

beebs and Yi want us to just pretend that their championing of this does not extend beyond the meaningless, and therefore they ought to get a pass for pushing a narrative that they claim means nothing, but of course, in the actual world has profound and serious implications. Implications that have been realized *BECAUSE* there are people who routinely parrot that narrative and people who consume that narrative who very much feel that it means a lot, and in fact take action based on the desired outcome of the very people who invented the entire narrative to begin with.

Watch more "fair and balanced" "new" like Fox. And if Fox, why not OAN? And if not OAN, why not Breitbart?

You cannot disconnect this lie from the broader narrative it is very carefully constructed inside and enables. And it is a lie in every meaningful sense of the word. And has direct and terrible implications to our world.

"The mainstream media is biased towards liberals!" is not some empty "the sky is blue" platitude. It is a very conscious construct in a broader narrative that resulted in Jan 6th, and will result in far worse.

And I stand by what I said - it is a lie. Even Been knows it is a dishonest way of presenting the reality of what is the modern media.

That is why he gets so upset when this is pointed out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 14, 2021, 11:47:16 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 13, 2021, 08:12:48 PM
Why do there need to be any conclusions?  I'm personally not a believer in "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions" mindset.  It makes no sense to pretend there is no problem if you have no solution.  Sometimes it's okay to notice that the sky is blue and yet to not also have any solution for that problem readily available.

I wasn't asking for solutions, I was asking whether people think it's a problem (seems the answer is yes in your case), and if it is a problem - how big and serious is it?

For example, you could think there's a variety of bias in the media, that that bias roughly reflects the broad consensus and significant variations in society, and that the bias is not really an issue as long as on pays a bit of attention and consume a spectrum of media sources.

Alternately, you could think that there's a strong bias, that the bias is deliberately there to drive a morally repugnant political agenda, and that that bias has a seriously corrosive effect on society.

... or maybe something else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 14, 2021, 10:23:34 AM
To the extent that the claim is "true", it is true in a way that is uninteresting and not actionable by rational people who care about liberal democracy. It is true to the extent that being "not liberal" now means being anti-science, anti-truth, and anti-honesty. At least in the context of the claim that the "mainstream media" (which includes actual right leaning media, after all) is broadly biased in a liberal manner.

beebs and Yi want us to just pretend that their championing of this does not extend beyond the meaningless, and therefore they ought to get a pass for pushing a narrative that they claim means nothing, but of course, in the actual world has profound and serious implications. Implications that have been realized *BECAUSE* there are people who routinely parrot that narrative and people who consume that narrative who very much feel that it means a lot, and in fact take action based on the desired outcome of the very people who invented the entire narrative to begin with.

Watch more "fair and balanced" "new" like Fox. And if Fox, why not OAN? And if not OAN, why not Breitbart?

You cannot disconnect this lie from the broader narrative it is very carefully constructed inside and enables. And it is a lie in every meaningful sense of the word. And has direct and terrible implications to our world.

"The mainstream media is biased towards liberals!" is not some empty "the sky is blue" platitude. It is a very conscious construct in a broader narrative that resulted in Jan 6th, and will result in far worse.

And I stand by what I said - it is a lie. Even Been knows it is a dishonest way of presenting the reality of what is the modern media.

That is why he gets so upset when this is pointed out.

Fuck off.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 12:18:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 13, 2021, 07:12:20 PM
What he did say was "Large national media outlets hire well educated people, 1) often from a fairly limited number of schools, 2) and work in large urban cities.

Can't have those well educated people running around making editorial decisions.  They are never going to be friendly to the far right.  And for good reason.  ;)

The focus should be on the second and third part of the sentence.  From a select number of universities, and people who live and work in large cities as opposed to rural counties.  That makes people who don't understand why people need a pick up truck to work or need a gun for defense or hunting in charge of writing opinion pieces that will be read by politicians and given more credence over the words of those affected.

City people tend to believe their way of life is the superior one and the only one valid.  Like Europeans seeing naked people in Americas & Africe and calling them "savages" in the 17th-18th century and considering them inferior to the white folks because they were different.

There is a whole world outside of Toronto and Vancouver, in case you guys did not notice.  A whole different reality.  Places where you need to travel 10km to the nearest grocery store.  Places when you need to drive 100km to get decent clothing to shop.  Places where the police will require 20-30 minutes to arrive at your place in case of emergency at night.  Places where you will be sent 45 minutes away by ambulance in case of an head trauma, like falling from your bike.  But we pay the same taxes as a person getting all those proximity services.

There are even places where available land for construction is limited and may refuse a project for a cemetary that takes 25% of all available land and reserve it for a single community.  And these people have no racist intent or some kind of fear.  But they'll still get called "rednecks" (at best) by city folks.

So, yeah, BB is justified.  There is a liberal bias, that often translates in a Liberal bias in Canada, and these medias tend to hire people from the same circles: friend of a friend, attended the same university known for its leftist positions on everything, same mindframe, similar opinions on everything.  People with dissenting discourse are sidelined.  Or cancelled, or intimidated until they understand they don't have their place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 13, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
Alright, so for the sake of argument let's say we agree to the proposition that "the mainstream media has a liberal bias". What do we do with that?

Media want to please their readers/viewers/listeners.  Public owned medias are no exception.  Without good ratings, the host is changed, the show is cancelled, replaced by something similar with a new image.

If CBC starts giving the rural point of view on subjects such as a rise in criminality and the annoyance of the gun registry (still an issue here), they'll lose urban viewers but are unlikely to gain new rural viewers.

The only solution would be to teach city dwellers about the world around them.  And by that, I don't mean digging wells in the middle of Africa or exploring the beaches of the Dominican Republican.  And that is a lost cause.  It has zero appeal.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 14, 2021, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 14, 2021, 11:47:16 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 13, 2021, 08:12:48 PM
Why do there need to be any conclusions?  I'm personally not a believer in "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions" mindset.  It makes no sense to pretend there is no problem if you have no solution.  Sometimes it's okay to notice that the sky is blue and yet to not also have any solution for that problem readily available.

I wasn't asking for solutions, I was asking whether people think it's a problem (seems the answer is yes in your case), and if it is a problem - how big and serious is it?

For example, you could think there's a variety of bias in the media, that that bias roughly reflects the broad consensus and significant variations in society, and that the bias is not really an issue as long as on pays a bit of attention and consume a spectrum of media sources.

Alternately, you could think that there's a strong bias, that the bias is deliberately there to drive a morally repugnant political agenda, and that that bias has a seriously corrosive effect on society.

... or maybe something else?
It's a moderately big problem.  Nothing on the scale of massive (and effective) propaganda campaign on the right, but it is a problem for several reasons. 

One reason is that people do notice when their take on an issue that they think is entirely reasonable is completely not represent in the mainstream media, or misrepresented.  When that happens, you don't come to a conclusion that maybe your opinion isn't as reasonable as you think, it's hard to have one's mind changed when your opinion isn't even acknowledged.  What usually happens is that you run across some non-mainstream media that does acknowledge the obvious, buying itself credibility in that way, but unfortunately goes way further than that.

Another reason it's a problem is that balanced discussion is necessary in order to solve problems intelligently.  If you don't allow issues to be honestly discussed, then you're putting the thumb of the scales of the debate.  I'll go back to the example of coverage of police brutality; if media covers police brutality as if that is the one and only issue in law enforcement, then policy decisions could be made that could cause public safety to plummet.  Having innocent people feeling unsafe and murdered is a bad thing in itself, but it also tends to discredit the political movements that created such a situation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 14, 2021, 01:03:54 PM
You're hopeless Berkut.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 14, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 13, 2021, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 13, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
Alright, so for the sake of argument let's say we agree to the proposition that "the mainstream media has a liberal bias". What do we do with that?

We celebrate that fact.  The "liberal bias" is a bias in favor of speaking truth to power.  People go into journalism because they think that exposing problems results in solving problems.  Conservatives tend to be wary of the idea that all problems have solutions.  Th "mainstream journalist" doesn't follow the conservative bias because they wouldn't have gone into journalism if that is what they believed.

We need journalists who want to expose the truth, even if it results in the President resigning.  That's a "liberal bias."  Celebrate it.

I agree with your statement strongly.  But as Berkut points out agreement requires an understanding and agreement of what the word "liberal" means, including the important role of the news media within a health liberal democracy.  Something the right has had a great deal of success in eroding and replacing with their own warped view of what news should be.

 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 14, 2021, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 14, 2021, 01:03:54 PM
You're hopeless Berkut.

I will take the ad homs and personal attacks to show exactly what they always show.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 14, 2021, 01:52:34 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 12:18:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 13, 2021, 07:12:20 PM
What he did say was "Large national media outlets hire well educated people, 1) often from a fairly limited number of schools, 2) and work in large urban cities.

Can't have those well educated people running around making editorial decisions.  They are never going to be friendly to the far right.  And for good reason.  ;)

The focus should be on the second and third part of the sentence.  From a select number of universities, and people who live and work in large cities as opposed to rural counties.  That makes people who don't understand why people need a pick up truck to work or need a gun for defense or hunting in charge of writing opinion pieces that will be read by politicians and given more credence over the words of those affected.

That is bullshit Viper.  Kids from small communities (some of which even grew up poor  ;)) made it to very good universities and have the capacity to understand rural issues. 

It is a right wing conceit (no lets call it what it is - more right wing bullshit) to say that only someone who is uneducated (like most right wing candidates) and who applies right wing common sense can really understand these things.  Complete bullshit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 14, 2021, 01:53:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 14, 2021, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 14, 2021, 11:47:16 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 13, 2021, 08:12:48 PM
Why do there need to be any conclusions?  I'm personally not a believer in "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions" mindset.  It makes no sense to pretend there is no problem if you have no solution.  Sometimes it's okay to notice that the sky is blue and yet to not also have any solution for that problem readily available.

I wasn't asking for solutions, I was asking whether people think it's a problem (seems the answer is yes in your case), and if it is a problem - how big and serious is it?

For example, you could think there's a variety of bias in the media, that that bias roughly reflects the broad consensus and significant variations in society, and that the bias is not really an issue as long as on pays a bit of attention and consume a spectrum of media sources.

Alternately, you could think that there's a strong bias, that the bias is deliberately there to drive a morally repugnant political agenda, and that that bias has a seriously corrosive effect on society.

... or maybe something else?
It's a moderately big problem.  Nothing on the scale of massive (and effective) propaganda campaign on the right, but it is a problem for several reasons. 

One reason is that people do notice when their take on an issue that they think is entirely reasonable is completely not represent in the mainstream media, or misrepresented.  When that happens, you don't come to a conclusion that maybe your opinion isn't as reasonable as you think, it's hard to have one's mind changed when your opinion isn't even acknowledged.  What usually happens is that you run across some non-mainstream media that does acknowledge the obvious, buying itself credibility in that way, but unfortunately goes way further than that.

Another reason it's a problem is that balanced discussion is necessary in order to solve problems intelligently.  If you don't allow issues to be honestly discussed, then you're putting the thumb of the scales of the debate.  I'll go back to the example of coverage of police brutality; if media covers police brutality as if that is the one and only issue in law enforcement, then policy decisions could be made that could cause public safety to plummet.  Having innocent people feeling unsafe and murdered is a bad thing in itself, but it also tends to discredit the political movements that created such a situation.

I think there is actually a HUGE problem with the media today.

It just has very little, if anything, to do with left wing media bias.

It is almost entirely about really, really fucked up incentives in the media market.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on October 14, 2021, 02:07:59 PM
So if I understand correctly, BB said the MSM has a liberal bias, and this caused cc and Berkut to explode? :mellow:

Everybody on the planet is biased, that's human nature. IMO, the bias from the MSM is pretty obviously left leaning, even in their non-editorial content. I'd argue it's a slight bias though, and does not distract or distort the actual facts. You still get the news.

I'm not sure why what BB said makes him the devil  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 14, 2021, 02:16:57 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 14, 2021, 02:07:59 PM
So if I understand correctly, BB said the MSM has a liberal bias, and this caused cc and Berkut to explode? :mellow:

Everybody on the planet is biased, that's human nature. IMO, the bias from the MSM is pretty obviously left leaning, even in their non-editorial content. I'd argue it's a slight bias though, and does not distract or distort the actual facts. You still get the news.

I'm not sure why what BB said makes him the devil  :huh:

Not the devil, just your ordinary garden variety right winger who bites on right wing speaking points once in a while and then tells people to fuck off when he gets called on it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 03:30:04 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 14, 2021, 02:07:59 PM
I'd argue it's a slight bias though, and does not distract or distort the actual facts. You still get the news.

I'm not sure why what BB said makes him the devil  :huh:
La Presse has shifted pretty much to the left in the last few years, with their new columnists.  Plus the usual suspects.  Well, they follow the shift in the LPQ, I guess.  As Anglade will be gone and forgotten by this time next year, I guess the paper will recenter itself.

As for the news, it affects the news presented, the click-bait title and its initial placement on the web page.  Sometimes, well, often, some misleading stats are used.  I don't think it's deliberate, more a problem with the human science faculties from where all these journalists come from. But when you recruit from the same pool of people over & over again, it only perpetuates these kind of mistakes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 03:30:49 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 14, 2021, 02:16:57 PM
Not the devil, just your ordinary garden variety right winger who bites on right wing speaking points once in a while and then tells people to fuck off when he gets called on it.

You basically called him an anti-intellectual moron.  Don't be surprised he's reacting defensively.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 14, 2021, 04:05:16 PM
I'm not getting why Barrister is getting the abuse here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 04:44:51 PM
Thank you Raz, Viper and Zoupa. :hug:

All I said was that I agreed with the notion there is a left of centre bias in the hard-to-define-but-definitely-real mainstream media.  And why shouldn't there be - everyone has their biases, and journalists are no exception.  I don't have any solution I was calling for other than basic media literacy.

I didn't call anything fake news, I certainly didn't encourage anyone to watch Fox News.  Why would I I've never watched it myself - I don't believe it's even available (google suggests you can get it on satellite only).  My record on Trump and Trumpism is by now I think quite clear.

Hell as a Canadian I was more concerned about the (to me) fairly obvious left-of-centre bias of the CBC.

Obviously no one has to agree with me, but this is hardly some wild and radical opinion to have.


Personally on my own media diet I like to check not only more mainstream sites, but I do regularly check a few obvious right-wing AND left-wing sites just so I get a sense of what different sides are talking about.  I check CBC News quite regularly (despite it's left-of-centre bias) because there's no paywall and the reporters know their jobs - I just am quite conscious of what stories they select to cover, and which they don't.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 14, 2021, 04:45:29 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 14, 2021, 04:05:16 PM
I'm not getting why Barrister is getting the abuse here.

Because he's the one acting like a crybaby?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 14, 2021, 04:49:51 PM
I disagree with Barrister, but I don't think we need to be spiteful about it.  In the US a lot of us are angry, because our democracy is being subverted before our very eyes.  So we are sorta on edge.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 14, 2021, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 04:44:51 PM
... I do regularly check a few obvious right-wing AND left-wing sites just so I get a sense of what different sides are talking about.

Anything you can recommend (right and left)?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 05:02:04 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 14, 2021, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 04:44:51 PM
... I do regularly check a few obvious right-wing AND left-wing sites just so I get a sense of what different sides are talking about.

Anything you can recommend (right and left)?

There's a real lack of decent Canadian right or left sites - if you have any please suggest.

On the right, National Review is about as pro-Trumpy as I can take.  Bulwark and Dispatch are anti-Trump conservative.

On the left I'll check out Salon, Slate or maybe Jezebel/The Root.

I do read more on the right than the left, but I do check out the left as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 14, 2021, 05:25:57 PM
In the US, the disease infecting the Republican Party is so severe that it is now impossible to be equal-handed with right and left, and have any credibility.

There are some respectable, I-disagree-with-them-but-I-can-still-respect-them types on the right - but only those who are willing to publicly denounce Trumpism, which makes them pariahs among their own "side". For example, David Frum.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 14, 2021, 05:28:40 PM
Yeah, in the US every news outlet that supports democracy is by definition left-wing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 14, 2021, 06:52:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 14, 2021, 05:28:40 PM
Yeah, in the US every news outlet that supports democracy is by definition left-wing.

This is so unfortunately true.  :cry:

Pretty much every dystopian nightmare issue that I claimed two years ago could not happen has happened.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 15, 2021, 02:05:08 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 04:44:51 PM
Thank you Raz, Viper and Zoupa. :hug:

All I said was that I agreed with the notion there is a left of centre bias in the hard-to-define-but-definitely-real mainstream media.  And why shouldn't there be - everyone has their biases, and journalists are no exception.  I don't have any solution I was calling for other than basic media literacy.

I didn't call anything fake news, I certainly didn't encourage anyone to watch Fox News.  Why would I I've never watched it myself - I don't believe it's even available (google suggests you can get it on satellite only).  My record on Trump and Trumpism is by now I think quite clear.

Hell as a Canadian I was more concerned about the (to me) fairly obvious left-of-centre bias of the CBC.

Obviously no one has to agree with me, but this is hardly some wild and radical opinion to have.


Personally on my own media diet I like to check not only more mainstream sites, but I do regularly check a few obvious right-wing AND left-wing sites just so I get a sense of what different sides are talking about.  I check CBC News quite regularly (despite it's left-of-centre bias) because there's no paywall and the reporters know their jobs - I just am quite conscious of what stories they select to cover, and which they don't.

What you said was that it cannot be denied that the mainstream media has and continues to have (so in the past, and in the present so NOT the result of anything recent, persumably) a "liberal bias". And that it was "getting worse".

You did not say anything as tepid as "left of center". You directly parroted the Rush Limbaugh/Fox News narrative, almost word for word.

Then you start cursing at me for pointing out that in fact, that simply is not true in any real sense.

Then you had Zoupa swoop in and ask why Berkut "exploded". Which is interesting, since I don't recall cursing at you at all. Odd.

I simply posted a link to an actual respected, objective site that shows that the radical right wing screeches of "mainstream media liberal bias" is basically bullshit - it is a lie. It is not true. There are plenty of mainstream media that are not liberal, and are in fact right of center, to use your words. Funny though - nobody bandies about "conservative mainstream media bias" to describe and bemoan the several mainstream media sources that are right of center. Funny that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 15, 2021, 02:17:32 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 14, 2021, 05:25:57 PM
In the US, the disease infecting the Republican Party is so severe that it is now impossible to be equal-handed with right and left, and have any credibility.

There are some respectable, I-disagree-with-them-but-I-can-still-respect-them types on the right - but only those who are willing to publicly denounce Trumpism, which makes them pariahs among their own "side". For example, David Frum.

What I am not willing to do, which is apparently unacceptable, is to separate support for a dishonest narrative with those who crafted that narrative for a very specific purpose, and that purpose, IMO, has rather clearly and obviously led to exactly what we have today - Trumpism and all the odious, anti-democracy baggage it has collected.

The modern GOP did not spring out, fully formed, from the ether. It was carefully crafted and managed by its own actual right wing media over decades. And their first task, which they succeeded at brilliantly, was to convince a lot of people that the non-right wing media (code word: the "mainstream media") was biased against them, and hence could not be trusted.

Beebs can throw a tantrum if he likes, but when I talk to my sister about why she won't get vaccinated, it is because the "mainstream media is all liberals" and hence are probably lying about death rates and covering up the dangers of the untested vaccine.

When she complains about the stolen election, and I point out that there is actually NO evidence it was stolen, she can dismiss it because everyone knows the media is biased towards the liberals, and hence are just covering up all the evidence that is plain to see on  the REAL news.

This story, this narrative, this LIE about how the mainstream media has a *meaningful* liberal bias is the foundational myth of the modern GOP. It is an absolutely necessary condition for all that has come after it's acceptance by the right, and even now its acceptance by everyone. It is the shining example of the Goebbels propaganda law "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth". And all the better if there is some tiny little kernel of truth buried in your lie....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 15, 2021, 03:19:28 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 14, 2021, 06:52:25 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 14, 2021, 05:28:40 PM
Yeah, in the US every news outlet that supports democracy is by definition left-wing.

This is so unfortunately true.  :cry:

Pretty much every dystopian nightmare issue that I claimed two years ago could not happen has happened.

You kind of feel like you're in a Twilight Zone episode. Sans cool shit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 15, 2021, 11:52:31 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245804844_3169375049947055_7949287474630395436_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=e5sxJadBq7EAX9usbQp&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=d0394fa64d25363ec3888bf2f3c3b4b2&oe=618F48C3)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s960x960/245746896_1869114199958778_2434490662660676094_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=SGqh17lLlRIAX9wpFww&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=942c1601c7e6d866ec56aa9c1e3a1432&oe=616ED5F9)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/245408211_10158615298797377_7075310470408769879_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=bt4BuCQjzwQAX8Y9riF&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=53b8c6f118dd82a1bfb99fda080f8069&oe=619045A2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on October 16, 2021, 02:01:42 AM
Quote from: Syt

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/245408211_10158615298797377_7075310470408769879_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=bt4BuCQjzwQAX8Y9riF&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=53b8c6f118dd82a1bfb99fda080f8069&oe=619045A2)
Narrator: "History quickly forgot this unremarkable weekend..."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 16, 2021, 03:14:41 AM
Hey, Taylor Swift should rank a lot higher than 2932.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on October 17, 2021, 12:41:00 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 05:02:04 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 14, 2021, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 04:44:51 PM
... I do regularly check a few obvious right-wing AND left-wing sites just so I get a sense of what different sides are talking about.

Anything you can recommend (right and left)?

There's a real lack of decent Canadian right or left sites - if you have any please suggest.

Uh totally agree. I read La Press in french, but they rarely have any national stories. For US stuff I mainly check The Hill. It's a barebones kind of reporting, which I like: "This is what happened", no fluff.

France stuff I go to France24, mainly because the rest of sites have paywalls up now.

Anyway, the lack of in-depth, rigorous journalism outlets in Canada is annoying (to me).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 17, 2021, 01:06:06 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/245946119_440410077454854_1756121239991892892_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HVa94U_CriIAX-mfj2r&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=dbde0331227f1e07e37ab76c8e7a4dfa&oe=61718DE6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on October 18, 2021, 07:32:41 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FB7vJnbXsAURGJG?format=jpg&name=medium)

Though as from twitter don't know if real or a parody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 07:52:56 AM
Why is Jesus giving out candy to child laborers?

Disturbing theology.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2021, 07:53:42 AM
Tbf though they have apparently lost Jesus.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on October 18, 2021, 09:33:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 18, 2021, 07:32:41 AM
Though as from twitter don't know if real or a parody.

I lived in a place once where my neighbors a few doors down had signs like this - they also screamed at the kids trick or treating in other parts of the neighborhood.  Every year the cops had to come and tell them that the kids could indeed use the sidewalk to get from house to house...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 18, 2021, 09:39:01 AM
Negative points for randomly throwing the word socialist into something irrelevant.
Bonus points for at least being consistent with their theology. If you're a by the book fire and brimstone Christian then you totally shouldn't be getting involved with haloween or modern christmas or any of that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 09:48:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2021, 09:39:01 AM
Negative points for randomly throwing the word socialist into something irrelevant.
Bonus points for at least being consistent with their theology. If you're a by the book fire and brimstone Christian then you totally shouldn't be getting involved with haloween or modern christmas or any of that sort of thing.

What a bunch of bullshit. Why shouldn't you? Are you some kind of fringe cult apologist? Any scriptures that say you can't celebrate Christmas or Halloween you want to present to me?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 18, 2021, 10:02:11 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 18, 2021, 09:33:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 18, 2021, 07:32:41 AM
Though as from twitter don't know if real or a parody.

I lived in a place once where my neighbors a few doors down had signs like this - they also screamed at the kids trick or treating in other parts of the neighborhood.  Every year the cops had to come and tell them that the kids could indeed use the sidewalk to get from house to house...

But their taxes pay for those sidewalks. that should give them the right to dictate who uses them!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 18, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 09:48:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2021, 09:39:01 AM
Negative points for randomly throwing the word socialist into something irrelevant.
Bonus points for at least being consistent with their theology. If you're a by the book fire and brimstone Christian then you totally shouldn't be getting involved with haloween or modern christmas or any of that sort of thing.

What a bunch of bullshit. Why shouldn't you? Are you some kind of fringe cult apologist? Any scriptures that say you can't celebrate Christmas or Halloween you want to present to me?


does dressing up as fictional character count as idol worship? serious question.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2021, 10:05:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 09:48:25 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2021, 09:39:01 AM
Negative points for randomly throwing the word socialist into something irrelevant.
Bonus points for at least being consistent with their theology. If you're a by the book fire and brimstone Christian then you totally shouldn't be getting involved with haloween or modern christmas or any of that sort of thing.

What a bunch of bullshit. Why shouldn't you? Are you some kind of fringe cult apologist? Any scriptures that say you can't celebrate Christmas or Halloween you want to present to me?

Fire and brimstone Christians do not believe that anything not banned by Scripture is permitted, so your argument about " [a]ny scriptures that say you can't celebrate Christmas or Halloween?" is irrelevant.

A number of fundamentalist religions recognize that Christmas and Easter are dressed-up pagan holidays and don't celebrate them (religiously, at any rate).  Halloween isn't even a dressed-up pagan ritual.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 18, 2021, 10:16:08 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2021, 10:05:35 AM
A number of fundamentalist religions recognize that Christmas and Easter are dressed-up pagan holidays and don't celebrate them (religiously, at any rate).  Halloween isn't even a dressed-up pagan ritual.

I've heard that about Christmas, and it's not as if the birth of Christ was that big a deal in the Bible (IIRC it's only even mentioned in 2 of the 4 gospels).

But Easter?  Christ's death and resurrection is kind of the whole point of Christianity.  Are their religious traditions that don't celebrate Easter?  And I don't mean hiding eggs - but don't religiously mark the occasion?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 10:27:28 AM
I mean there were pagan rituals every day of the year. Sure there was some cultural influence but the idea that these are, in fact, specific pagan holidays that were dressed up seems very dubious with little historical evidence to support it. The very fact that nobody can seem to agree exactly what pagan holiday Christmas is supposed to be (Feast of the Unconquered Sun? Saturnalia? Some Germanic thing?) is evidence of that. Sure some cultural elements seeped in but if it is an actual pagan holiday surely it should only have elements from one of those holidays right? Since it is just that holiday dressed-up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 18, 2021, 10:33:02 AM
All of the above. Its for logical reason that a lot of pagan religions celebrated the solstice. Its very possible they didn't even develop independently and came from a common ancestor festival.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2021, 11:03:15 AM
In Sweden we celebrate jul, not Christmas. We did it before Christianity came, and we do it after it has left.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 11:13:06 AM
Christmas was certainly based on Saturnian (despite not occurring at the same time).  The traditions of Saturnalia, burning the corpses of gladiators and playing with your nuts, are basically sacraments recognized by all Christian denominations.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2021, 11:21:07 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 18, 2021, 10:16:08 AM
But Easter?  Christ's death and resurrection is kind of the whole point of Christianity.  Are their religious traditions that don't celebrate Easter?  And I don't mean hiding eggs - but don't religiously mark the occasion?

This was so hard to Google (not!)

QuoteDenominations
The most famous Christian groups to commonly reject Easter are: the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), Messianic Jewish groups (also known as Hebrew-Christians), Armstrong Movement churches, many Puritan-descended Presbyterians, and Jehovah's Witnesses.
https://www.infoplease.com/culture-entertainment/holidays/christian-groups-dont-celebrate-easter (https://www.infoplease.com/culture-entertainment/holidays/christian-groups-dont-celebrate-easter)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 11:43:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 10:27:28 AM
I mean there were pagan rituals every day of the year. Sure there was some cultural influence but the idea that these are, in fact, specific pagan holidays that were dressed up seems very dubious with little historical evidence to support it. The very fact that nobody can seem to agree exactly what pagan holiday Christmas is supposed to be (Feast of the Unconquered Sun? Saturnalia? Some Germanic thing?) is evidence of that.\

I think that objection misses the mark.  The argument is that wherever Christianity spread, it coopted whatever local festivals that were in place.  In the specific case of Easter, of course, there was a specific holiday that it was supplanting - namely the Jewish Passover.  However, in places where that celebration was unknown, whatever spring equinox festival existed could be co-opted and re-purposed.  Which likely mirrors the lost history of the Passover festival itself - a folk celebration of the coming of spring recast as the renewal and regeneration of the Hebrews as a people.  As for Christmas, the date was deliberately set to match the winter solstice. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 18, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 11:43:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 10:27:28 AM
As for Christmas, the date was deliberately set to match the winter solstice.

If so they didn't do a very good job at it...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 12:39:04 PM
Beeb, you're a prosecutor. You of all people should know that just because someone did a shoddy job doesn't mean they didn't do it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 11:43:52 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 10:27:28 AM
I mean there were pagan rituals every day of the year. Sure there was some cultural influence but the idea that these are, in fact, specific pagan holidays that were dressed up seems very dubious with little historical evidence to support it. The very fact that nobody can seem to agree exactly what pagan holiday Christmas is supposed to be (Feast of the Unconquered Sun? Saturnalia? Some Germanic thing?) is evidence of that.\

I think that objection misses the mark.  The argument is that wherever Christianity spread, it coopted whatever local festivals that were in place.  In the specific case of Easter, of course, there was a specific holiday that it was supplanting - namely the Jewish Passover.  However, in places where that celebration was unknown, whatever spring equinox festival existed could be co-opted and re-purposed.  Which likely mirrors the lost history of the Passover festival itself - a folk celebration of the coming of spring recast as the renewal and regeneration of the Hebrews as a people.  As for Christmas, the date was deliberately set to match the winter solstice.

The argument that "wherever Christianity spread, it coopted whatever local festivals that were in place" is propaganda from the reformation.  It's much easy to kill a priest and take his stuff if he's secretly a pagan.  There's not much truth in it.  I don't know of any records from ancient Rome that say "we made Christmas on the winter solstice".  This is possibly because it didn't occur on the winter solstice.  As for Easter, there is no known spring festival called "Easter" or anything like it.  The Anglo-Saxon's had a month named Eostre-month, and it might have had a festival on that month dedicated to the otherwise unknown goddess "Eostre".  We have one source for this: a couple of lines written by an aging monk.  Beyond that is conjecture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Man, Catholics are still really militant about denying that they ever coopted pagan religious elements, aren't they Mr. Easter Bunny?  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 02:01:17 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2021, 10:33:02 AM
All of the above. Its for logical reason that a lot of pagan religions celebrated the solstice. Its very possible they didn't even develop independently and came from a common ancestor festival.

So if any religion happens to have a celebration near a solstice or equinox it is automatically 'Pagan'? Halloween is not near either though and it certainly has jack shit to do with some ancient Satan religion, yet you praise this interpretation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 02:03:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Man, Catholics are still really militant about denying that they ever coopted pagan religious elements, aren't they Mr. Easter Bunny?  :lol:

What pagan religious element was the Easter bunny from again?  I seem to have forgotten. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 02:04:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 18, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Man, Catholics are still really militant about denying that they ever coopted pagan religious elements, aren't they Mr. Easter Bunny?  :lol:

All cultural elements are "coopted pagan religious elements"? Besides virtually all of Judaism and Christianity is full of coopted cultural artifacts from some previous culture, probably even a pagan one if we follow this ridiculous and fallacious line of bullshit. Should we then burn the whole bible as Pagan, Mr. El?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 02:13:02 PM
Every year we celebrate the fury of the god of war with a basketball tournament. We call it "March Madness"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 02:17:33 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
The argument that "wherever Christianity spread, it coopted whatever local festivals that were in place" is propaganda from the reformation.  It's much easy to kill a priest and take his stuff if he's secretly a pagan.  There's not much truth in it.  I don't know of any records from ancient Rome that say "we made Christmas on the winter solstice".  This is possibly because it didn't occur on the winter solstice.  As for Easter, there is no known spring festival called "Easter" or anything like it.  The Anglo-Saxon's had a month named Eostre-month, and it might have had a festival on that month dedicated to the otherwise unknown goddess "Eostre".  We have one source for this: a couple of lines written by an aging monk.  Beyond that is conjecture.

Agreed on Easter and Eostre, who is as I understand it poorly attested. I think seeing Easter as a Christian version of Passover makes a lot more sense. Though it's hard for me not to expect pagan origins for all the bits with the eggs and rabbits and so on.

In Denmark (and the rest of Scandinavia) we celebrate "Jul" - aka Yule - as a Christian holiday. Jul was also - as the Brain says - a pre-Christian holiday. The food, drinking, and visiting culture around to holiday seem largely congruous with the pre-Christian customs. There are a number of rituals (leaving food for the house Nisse/ Tomte to keep him happy, straw goats, pork roast, the association with evergreen plants) that are pretty clearly pagan in origin. Furthermore, since Scandinavia is officially Lutheran, it's hard to give credit to the notion that those associations are somehow anti-Catholic.

Christianity co-opted local pagan traditions seems pretty obviously true in this case.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 02:22:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 02:04:08 PM
All cultural elements are "coopted pagan religious elements"? Besides virtually all of Judaism and Christianity is full of coopted cultural artifacts from some previous culture, probably even a pagan one if we follow this ridiculous and fallacious line of bullshit. Should we then burn the whole bible as Pagan, Mr. El?

Whatever you do with your holy book in the privacy of your own home is your own business. But pretending things sprung fully formed ex nihilo (or ex deus, I suppose) rather than acknowledge their roots seems pretty silly.

As far as I understand, Judaism doesn't have a problem with acknowledging pre-Abrahamic roots of any of its rituals. At least in my experience proposals like "this custom was almost certainly picked up during the Babylonian captivity, as it is very common to Babylonian practices" and so on are just discussed matter of fact and with interest, without any apparent deep emotional investment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 18, 2021, 02:23:20 PM
The exceptional claim is that Christianity was not influenced at all by the cultures in which it developed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 18, 2021, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 02:01:17 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2021, 10:33:02 AM
All of the above. Its for logical reason that a lot of pagan religions celebrated the solstice. Its very possible they didn't even develop independently and came from a common ancestor festival.

So if any religion happens to have a celebration near a solstice or equinox it is automatically 'Pagan'? Halloween is not near either though and it certainly has jack shit to do with some ancient Satan religion, yet you praise this interpretation.

No. Pre Christian faiths tend to be clumped together as "pagan" specifically to differentiate them from Christians. It's a useful term to keep using as they do have commonalities in outlook making them pretty different to the abrahamic faiths.
A bunch of them happen to have solstace holidays. I've no idea if this is due to common ancestry or purely because it's a logical time to have a holiday. Christianity when setting up it's festivals noticed this was a good date to co-opt.
It's pretty simple stuff.

Halloween comes from one particular gaelic pagan festival and it isn't a Christian thing at all. All saints day sure. All saints eve... Not really.

Pagan beliefs being labelled as satanic is an age old tactic of Christians to cement support and demean opposition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 18, 2021, 02:42:47 PM
Going back to the sign in the door, I agree that the custom of blackmailing residents with the threat of damage to property is destructive and immoral and I'm glad that has largely been dropped from trick or treating.  Now it's just a costume show.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 03:44:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
I don't know of any records from ancient Rome that say "we made Christmas on the winter solstice".  This is possibly because it didn't occur on the winter solstice. 

That's OK, always helpful to learn new facts:

https://historyandarchaeologyonline.com/roman-solstice-celebrations/
QuoteIn 45 BC, Julius Caesar reorganised the Roman calendar. This reshuffling of dates shifted the date of the winter solstice to December 25

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 03:51:26 PM
https://wesleyscholar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Augustine-Sermons-184-229.pdf

See Sermon 194 - first sentence of second paragraph (on page 53) and note 3 at the end
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 03:54:42 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2021, 02:25:42 PM
So if any religion happens to have a celebration near a solstice or equinox it is automatically 'Pagan'?

It's worth reflecting on the etymology of the word "pagan"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 18, 2021, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 02:22:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 02:04:08 PM
All cultural elements are "coopted pagan religious elements"? Besides virtually all of Judaism and Christianity is full of coopted cultural artifacts from some previous culture, probably even a pagan one if we follow this ridiculous and fallacious line of bullshit. Should we then burn the whole bible as Pagan, Mr. El?

Whatever you do with your holy book in the privacy of your own home is your own business. But pretending things sprung fully formed ex nihilo (or ex deo, I suppose) rather than acknowledge their roots seems pretty silly.

Fixed!  :nerd:
Ex + ablative

Christmas was also influenced by the Saturnalia, which also inspired Carnival. So yes, pretending things sprung fully ex nihilo is completely bonkers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 18, 2021, 04:07:53 PM
Fixed!  :nerd:
Ex + ablative

Thank you :cheers:

QuoteChristmas was also influenced by the Saturnalia, which also inspired Carnival. So yes, pretending things sprung fully ex nihilo is completely bonkers.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 02:04:08 PM
Besides virtually all of Judaism and Christianity is full of coopted cultural artifacts from some previous culture, probably even a pagan one if we follow this ridiculous and fallacious line of bullshit.

That's definitely true of Judaism (the first part not the fallacious bullshit part).  Much of the Old Testament presumes the existence of other gods (albeit those over which YHVH triumphs ).  The historical writings tells us over and over again how the people of land are worshipping the wrong gods in the wrong ways, confirming the historical and archaeological theories that these were accepted forms of worship in ancient Israel and Judah.

QuoteShould we then burn the whole bible as Pagan, Mr. El?

I'd say no but it's a free country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 05:06:05 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 03:44:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
I don't know of any records from ancient Rome that say "we made Christmas on the winter solstice".  This is possibly because it didn't occur on the winter solstice. 

That's OK, always helpful to learn new facts:

https://historyandarchaeologyonline.com/roman-solstice-celebrations/ (https://historyandarchaeologyonline.com/roman-solstice-celebrations/)
QuoteIn 45 BC, Julius Caesar reorganised the Roman calendar. This reshuffling of dates shifted the date of the winter solstice to December 25

The 25th was not the solstice in the third century.   :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 18, 2021, 05:09:26 PM
My favorite weird survival in Genesis: the bit where the "sons of God" mate with mortal women and produce "heroes, men of renown". See Genesis 6:1-6:4.

This lead to literally centuries of speculation as to what was meant by "sons of God".

Christians tended to fo with the notion that these were "angels", perhaps fallen angels (though why they would have kids who were heroes or men of renown is difficult to say). The Jewish explanation tended to be that these were either the sons of Seth (the third child of Adam and Eve), or perhaps exalted but very human rulers. In any case, not literally "sons of God".

Obviously, it is difficult in modern Judaism to reconcile the Jewish notion of God with a being that literally has "sons".

However, it may well be the case that this is a survival of an earlier form of Judaism in which God was perceived much more physically - in line with say Greek notions of divinity. The Greeks had gods screwing humans all over the place, and their offspring were commonly heroes.

Again, if God had sons, who was their mom?



Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 05:06:05 PM
The 25th was not the solstice in the third century.   :mellow:

That's OK, Jesus wasn't born in the third century.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 18, 2021, 05:11:56 PM
QuoteAgain, if God had sons, who was their mom?

Tricia Heifer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 05:16:11 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 18, 2021, 05:09:26 PM
Obviously, it is difficult in modern Judaism to reconcile the Jewish notion of God with a being that literally has "sons".

The concept of son or sons of God crops up a few times in the OT - it usually refers to a member of the Davidic dynasty and refers to God's sponsorship of and special relationship to the Davidic line (obviously that is not true for the early Genesis reference).  From that comes the idea that the Messiah - who is supposed to be a restored King of the Davidic line - is considered a son of God in this metaphorical sense.  The early Christians took that idea in a different direction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 05:28:17 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 02:17:33 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 01:16:01 PM
The argument that "wherever Christianity spread, it coopted whatever local festivals that were in place" is propaganda from the reformation.  It's much easy to kill a priest and take his stuff if he's secretly a pagan.  There's not much truth in it.  I don't know of any records from ancient Rome that say "we made Christmas on the winter solstice".  This is possibly because it didn't occur on the winter solstice.  As for Easter, there is no known spring festival called "Easter" or anything like it.  The Anglo-Saxon's had a month named Eostre-month, and it might have had a festival on that month dedicated to the otherwise unknown goddess "Eostre".  We have one source for this: a couple of lines written by an aging monk.  Beyond that is conjecture.

Agreed on Easter and Eostre, who is as I understand it poorly attested. I think seeing Easter as a Christian version of Passover makes a lot more sense. Though it's hard for me not to expect pagan origins for all the bits with the eggs and rabbits and so on.

In Denmark (and the rest of Scandinavia) we celebrate "Jul" - aka Yule - as a Christian holiday. Jul was also - as the Brain says - a pre-Christian holiday. The food, drinking, and visiting culture around to holiday seem largely congruous with the pre-Christian customs. There are a number of rituals (leaving food for the house Nisse/ Tomte to keep him happy, straw goats, pork roast, the association with evergreen plants) that are pretty clearly pagan in origin. Furthermore, since Scandinavia is officially Lutheran, it's hard to give credit to the notion that those associations are somehow anti-Catholic.

Christianity co-opted local pagan traditions seems pretty obviously true in this case.

The protestant reformation is based on the Great Apostacy, the idea that the true church was corrupted by paganism.  Many Christmas traditions were removed during reformation.  Though some were brought back in latter periods.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2021, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 02:04:08 PM
All cultural elements are "coopted pagan religious elements"?

Hello, Mr Strawman.  I wondered when you would join the conversation.

QuoteBesides virtually all of Judaism and Christianity is full of coopted cultural artifacts from some previous culture, probably even a pagan one if we follow this ridiculous and fallacious line of bullshit. Should we then burn the whole bible as Pagan, Mr. El?

Yes, they are.  Does that infuriate you to the point that you want to "burn the whole bible as Pagan" rather than just accepting the facts as they are?  There's nothing magical about Catholicism from the viewpoint of outsiders that means we have to accept it as something completely original.  Even if its practitioners go berserk at the idea that it's just another idea that evolves to fit its environment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 05:28:17 PM
The protestant reformation is based on the Great Apostacy, the idea that the true church was corrupted by paganism.

Hmmm... I understood the protestant reformation being based on lay people wanting to interface with bible in their own language rather than have it mediated by the Roman Church; with dissatisfaction with the selling of indulgences and the idea of purgatory; and of course on the desire of secular rulers to take control of Church wealth and exert more influence over the bishops in their realm.

Luther's 95 Theses, which kicked off the reformation, does not mention anything about "the true church" being "corrupted by paganism."

QuoteMany Christmas traditions were removed during reformation.  Though some were brought back in latter periods.

Maybe they did, but that does not change the fact that Scandinavian Christians celebrated Jul in ways that were clearly a continuation of how their Pagan ancestors did. This is a clear example of how Christianity co-opted and continued local Pagan customs, which is the point of contention. Whether Lutheran reformers at one point used the existence of those traditions to indict the Catholic church (only for Lutheran Scandinavians to continue with those very same traditions afterwards) does not change the fact that the traditions were co-opted in the first place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2021, 06:28:42 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 05:28:17 PM
The protestant reformation is based on the Great Apostacy, the idea that the true church was corrupted by paganism.

Hmmm... I understood the protestant reformation being based on lay people wanting to interface with bible in their own language rather than have it mediated by the Roman Church; with dissatisfaction with the selling of indulgences and the idea of purgatory; and of course on the desire of secular rulers to take control of Church wealth and exert more influence over the bishops in their realm.

Luther's 95 Theses, which kicked off the reformation, does not mention anything about "the true church" being "corrupted by paganism."

The Great Apostacy refers to the Catholic (and later Protestant and maybe also Orthodox) doctrine that the end times would include a massive falling away from Christianity of previously faithful followers, as predicted in the New Testament.   Perhaps there were some Protestant writers who claimed that it had occurred under the Catholic Church.  Millenarianism was popular in that time period, so the Great Apostacy would fit for those types of writers.

Quote
QuoteMany Christmas traditions were removed during reformation.  Though some were brought back in latter periods.

Maybe they did, but that does not change the fact that Scandinavian Christians celebrated Jul in ways that were clearly a continuation of how their pagan ancestors did. This is a clear example of how Christianity co-opted and continued local Pagan customs, which is the point of contention. Whether Lutheran reformers at one point used the existence of those traditions to indict the Catholic church (only for Lutheran Scandinavians to continue with those very same traditions afterwards) does not change the fact that the traditions were co-opted in the first place.

Raz, like many, seems to believe that Protestants = Puritans.  The Puritans were against most of the traditional celebrations of Christmas (decorating, singing, feast foods, drinking, visiting friends, etc) which they held to lack any biblical authority and were insufficiently modest and humble.  I'm aware of no Lutheran or Anglican bans on traditional Christmas/Yule activities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 06:33:19 PM
I don't know much about Scandinavian traditions, so I won't insult you by pretending to know.  Do keep in mind though, that simply because a custom is old and strange it doesn't mean it's pagan.  Many traditions that were assumed to be pagan are not attested to until long, long after Christianization.  For instance, the Maypole or the Yule Log.  Traditions need to start somewhere and are often newer than you think.


I'm surprised that you don't know about the great apostacy.  If the problem with the Catholic Church was just over reading the Bible and sale of indulgences then there really shouldn't be a problem anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 06:33:19 PM
I don't know much about Scandinavian traditions, so I won't insult you by pretending to know.  Do keep in mind though, that simply because a custom is old and strange it doesn't mean it's pagan.  Many traditions that were assumed to be pagan are not attested to until long, long after Christianization.  For instance, the Maypole or the Yule Log.  Traditions need to start somewhere and are often newer than you think.

For sure. But we have some pretty clear and textual examples of this appropriation.

Heathen Scandinavians Yule tradition included a massive feast where you "drank in the Yule", including drinking toasts to the various Nordic gods and of course a whole bunch of eating. This is attested to in significant number of written sources. Additionally, some of Odin's many names include ones translating to He-who-is-yule and Yule-Father.

The Norwegian King Håkon Adalsteinsfostre (935-961), in the mid-900s moved the yule celebration from mid-January* to match the dates the Church had for the birth of Jesus.

Then in the Gulating Law, another Norwegian King, Olaf Tryggvason (960s – 9 September 1000) imposed fines on households that brewed insufficient beer and failed to drink in the Yule by toasting the infant Jesus and his mother. Drinking in the Yule remained an explicit tradition in Scandinavia until the early 1900s, and Scandinavians absolutely spend a whole bunch of time engaging in fairly formalized drinking during Christmas to this very day. We still brew Yule-Beer - and it's a big deal - much like heathen Scandinavians are attested to have brewed special Yule-Beer and Yule-Mead.

There's a pretty clear transition from Heathen to Christian, and co-opting the ritual and behaviour (and name) of the Heathen Yule.

*Note that there is evidence for Heathen Yule celebrations both during winter solstice (21 - 22 Dec) and midwinter night (19 - 21 Jan) depending on regional and family traditions.

QuoteI'm surprised that you don't know about the great apostacy.  If the problem with the Catholic Church was just over reading the Bible and sale of indulgences then there really shouldn't be a problem anymore.

I'm surprised you seem to be discounting the political and financial aspirations of secular rulers as a driving force of the Reformation.

That said, I'm losing track of the point you're trying to make about "the great apostacy". Are you saying it was a serious driver of the initial reformation? That it is something the matters significantly to modern day protestants? Something else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 07:52:02 PM
As for the Reformation, this is what I was taught in school and a message that has been reinforced over and over again by various pop-historical presentations (i.e. I don't claim to be a serious student of this, and am happy to have my horizons expanded):

In that context "the great apostacy"-they-are-all-just-pagans-masquerading-as-Christians (which is what I think you're saying) sounds to me like the kind of feel good rhetoric that Protestants might have told themselves to justify their rejection of Catholicism and the actions they took against Catholics. But I don't know that it was central to kicking off the Reformation, nor to keeping the Wars of Religion going once they started.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 08:49:12 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 06:33:19 PM
I don't know much about Scandinavian traditions, so I won't insult you by pretending to know.  Do keep in mind though, that simply because a custom is old and strange it doesn't mean it's pagan.  Many traditions that were assumed to be pagan are not attested to until long, long after Christianization.  For instance, the Maypole or the Yule Log.  Traditions need to start somewhere and are often newer than you think.

For sure. But we have some pretty clear and textual examples of this appropriation.

Heathen Scandinavians Yule tradition included a massive feast where you "drank in the Yule", including drinking toasts to the various Nordic gods and of course a whole bunch of eating. This is attested to in significant number of written sources. Additionally, some of Odin's many names include ones translating to He-who-is-yule and Yule-Father.

The Norwegian King Håkon Adalsteinsfostre (935-961), in the mid-900s moved the yule celebration from mid-January* to match the dates the Church had for the birth of Jesus.

Then in the Gulating Law, another Norwegian King, Olaf Tryggvason (960s – 9 September 1000) imposed fines on households that brewed insufficient beer and failed to drink in the Yule by toasting the infant Jesus and his mother. Drinking in the Yule remained an explicit tradition in Scandinavia until the early 1900s, and Scandinavians absolutely spend a whole bunch of time engaging in fairly formalized drinking during Christmas to this very day. We still brew Yule-Beer - and it's a big deal - much like heathen Scandinavians are attested to have brewed special Yule-Beer and Yule-Mead.

There's a pretty clear transition from Heathen to Christian, and co-opting the ritual and behaviour (and name) of the Heathen Yule.

*Note that there is evidence for Heathen Yule celebrations both during winter solstice (21 - 22 Dec) and midwinter night (19 - 21 Jan) depending on regional and family traditions.

QuoteI'm surprised that you don't know about the great apostacy.  If the problem with the Catholic Church was just over reading the Bible and sale of indulgences then there really shouldn't be a problem anymore.

I'm surprised you seem to be discounting the political and financial aspirations of secular rulers as a driving force of the Reformation.

That said, I'm losing track of the point you're trying to make about "the great apostacy". Are you saying it was a serious driver of the initial reformation? That it is something the matters significantly to modern day protestants? Something else?

I'm not discounting the political financial reasons for why Protestant reformation.  The point of this was to to say that the pagan-Christian continuum is more about politics and plunder than it does with reality.  More recently it was adopted New Atheist movement, though they have moved on to attacking Muslims more these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 18, 2021, 09:05:39 PM
Ahem. Apostasy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 09:32:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2021, 05:06:05 PM
The 25th was not the solstice in the third century.   :mellow:

The 25th was the day the days started getting longer again. So the symbolism is obvious. The world is in darkness and Jesus comes and bring light. It makes perfect sense why that symbolism would be used in forming a Christian Holiday. Now I don't know, and nobody knows, exactly how and why those decisions were made. I thought it was something like that Jesus was supposed to be conceived the same time of year he was crucified and if you count forward nine months from then you get sort of around December 25th. But that sounds to me like something made up after the fact as a justification but I don't know.

And sure there were all kinds of past cultural influences that went into that celebration.

But it is certainly no specific pagan festival that got dressed up in Christian garb because there is no pagan festival that resembles exactly what Christmas is and was. It has all kinds of different cultural influences as one might expect given the international intercultural reach of the religion. Everybody had some kind of thing going on at different points of the year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 09:38:19 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 18, 2021, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 02:04:08 PM
Besides virtually all of Judaism and Christianity is full of coopted cultural artifacts from some previous culture, probably even a pagan one if we follow this ridiculous and fallacious line of bullshit.

That's definitely true of Judaism (the first part not the fallacious bullshit part).  Much of the Old Testament presumes the existence of other gods (albeit those over which YHVH triumphs ).  The historical writings tells us over and over again how the people of land are worshipping the wrong gods in the wrong ways, confirming the historical and archaeological theories that these were accepted forms of worship in ancient Israel and Judah.

QuoteShould we then burn the whole bible as Pagan, Mr. El?

I'd say no but it's a free country.

Well exactly there is no direct evidence of specific pagan festivals that are being converted into Christian ones, we just have some cultural parallels that I find very interesting and cool but others take waaaay too far as some evidence of some kind of secret satanic or pagan agenda or some shit. Just like with Judaism the reigion evolved surrounded by other religions and cultures and was influenced, you can clearly see the Sumerian and Egyptian influences early on and the Person influences in the second Temple period. Likewise the Persian and Greek cultural influences are all over the New Testament.

I just think there is a little bit of a difference between things influencing each other and having a cultural transfer than assume Christmas is somehow NOT Christian but secretly a Pagan festival!!! It is a Christian festival that has some cultural influences. Just like virtually all of Christianity. I mean Zoroastrianism had a Messiah figure who was to be born to a virgin and lead to a final battle between Good and Evil. I am certainly not saying that Christianity is just Zoroastrianism dressed up as Christianity just that the cultural impacts are obvious. You need actual evidence to make that claim not just point out that they are kind of similar if you squint because of some cultural exchanges and influences.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on October 19, 2021, 02:21:16 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 07:52:02 PM
Stuff Jacob said.




I will concede that at least in Scandinavia there are examples of Pagan-Christian continuity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 19, 2021, 02:34:26 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 19, 2021, 02:21:16 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 18, 2021, 07:52:02 PM
Stuff Jacob said.




I will concede that at least in Scandinavia there are examples of Pagan-Christian continuity.

:uffda: :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 19, 2021, 07:14:06 AM
The argument that, if there is no direct evidence, then it didn't happen is a very strange argument for a Christian to make, given that their whole religion is based around events for which there is no evidence.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 19, 2021, 09:44:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2021, 09:38:19 PM
Just like with Judaism the reigion evolved surrounded by other religions and cultures and was influenced, you can clearly see the Sumerian and Egyptian influences early on and the Person influences in the second Temple period. Likewise the Persian and Greek cultural influences are all over the New Testament.

Probably more than casual influences.  In Ezra-Nehemiah, the people resist the efforts of the exiles in purportedly restoring the faith; Nehemiah comes to back the exiles by force.  When the Temple is finally (re?)built, Ezra then reads "the book of the law of Moses" to the people (i.e. the Torah or some version of it).  It is clear from the description of the scene that this is new to the people.  The Bible explains this by suggesting that the Assyrian and Babylonian conquest involved  wholesale population transfers.  That is almost certainly not what happened; much more likely is that "elites" (priests, nobles, officers, scribes) were removed with some retainers and the bulk of the  peasants and herders left in place.  Pre-exile there was probably already a difference between the priestly religion of the capital and folk religious practice -- the account of Josiah's reign reflects that -- but that is a gap that widens very considerably during exile.  The practices and beliefs of the exiles were changed under the trauma of the exile and the close contact with Babylonia and Persia.  Indeed I think that it is fair to say that what we understand as Judaism - a monotheistic faith based on communal reading of and observance of a written Torah - is a post-exilic phenomenon driven in significant part by exposure to more sophisticated and literate cultures, as well as exposure to religious ideas about a single supreme divine being

QuoteI just think there is a little bit of a difference between things influencing each other and having a cultural transfer than assume Christmas is somehow NOT Christian but secretly a Pagan festival!!!

But that is not the argument.  Rather, the argument is that an expanding Christianity - an urban-based religion that was so suspicious of rural superstition that it defined the religious traditions that it opposed with a Latin word denoting rustic villagers - finds itself with the difficult  task of implanting itself in countless villages in a de-urbanizing late Roman and post-Roman world, and with only limited human and material resources.  It's not practical to foment a radical religious revolution village by village.  Rather, the path of least resistance is to take whatever folk traditions and practices exist on the ground and overlay them with a veneer of Christian names and stories.  Preparing the way so that when a church is built and a priest placed in the parish it will be accepted.  Because it doesn't really matter much what the peasants think or believe, as long as they accept the performance of the sacraments. This is a pattern that lasts to this very day.  Popular faith and practice of Christianity has little to do with what Jesus preached, or what is taught in the seminaries or university divinity schools.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 19, 2021, 10:22:20 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 19, 2021, 02:21:16 AM
I will concede that at least in Scandinavia there are examples of Pagan-Christian continuity.

:hug:

I will agree that there are definitely also examples where people overstate or misinterpret alleged pagan links to current Christmas practices.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 19, 2021, 01:59:14 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/246931658_4857168680983252_3923871726723469393_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TerngSPwspIAX8tFGob&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=56b562c4807ceab4ce123dede8463e63&oe=61931283)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/245990275_3171690983048795_8672339968205477333_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ielHclXZZ-gAX9k43HV&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=eda67daaad9dba7305a1c115b1631a09&oe=61944C9D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2021, 04:15:54 PM
More self owning I see.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 19, 2021, 05:31:35 PM
The question in the first cartoon was "Did Donald Trump win the 2020 presidential election" and Arthur's response was "no."

And when Jesse Kelly, the part of the media Jesse Kelly knows intimately, says that media is claiming that they are the enemy of the American people, he's obviously referring to Jesse Kelly. And he's right.

As Tyr says, more self-owning.  But we already suspected that MAGAts can't use social media without shooting themselves in the foot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on October 20, 2021, 12:23:33 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on October 17, 2021, 12:41:00 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 05:02:04 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 14, 2021, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 14, 2021, 04:44:51 PM
... I do regularly check a few obvious right-wing AND left-wing sites just so I get a sense of what different sides are talking about.

Anything you can recommend (right and left)?

There's a real lack of decent Canadian right or left sites - if you have any please suggest.

Uh totally agree. I read La Press in french, but they rarely have any national stories. For US stuff I mainly check The Hill. It's a barebones kind of reporting, which I like: "This is what happened", no fluff.

France stuff I go to France24, mainly because the rest of sites have paywalls up now.

Anyway, the lack of in-depth, rigorous journalism outlets in Canada is annoying (to me).

Here are a few I've come across.  Whether you consider them "in-depth" or "rigorous" is up for debate, but I find the content consistently good.

https://theline.substack.com/ (https://theline.substack.com/)

The Line, this is a Western centric oped site similar to the Dispatch but Canadian. Led by Jen Gerson who is probably well known as a journalist.  I'd call its stance Centre.  Latest article is titled "Jen Gerson: The strange truth is that Alberta wants to be more like Quebec".

https://thetyee.ca/ (https://thetyee.ca/)

The Tyee, this is also more BC / Western centric, with a definite Left slant.  Good content

https://www.sprawlalberta.com/ (https://www.sprawlalberta.com/)

The Sprawl, another Alberta / Western site.  I'd call it Centre / Left but others may disagree. 

https://daveberta.ca/ (https://daveberta.ca/)

Daveberta, focused on Alberta politics.  I'd also call this Centre / Left.

https://kimsiever.ca/ (https://kimsiever.ca/)

Site by Kim Siever, a local Lethbridge "citizen journalist" I guess.  Alberta focused again.  Definite Left slant, I think, good content and seems to be well researched.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 20, 2021, 01:23:42 PM
I'm familiar with some but not all of PRC's links.  I will check check them out.

The only problem though is they aren't much more than glorified blogs.  I think the writer may be earning a living from their site, but it's generally just a single writer/employee.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on October 20, 2021, 01:54:51 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 20, 2021, 01:23:42 PM
I'm familiar with some but not all of PRC's links.  I will check check them out.

The only problem though is they aren't much more than glorified blogs.  I think the writer may be earning a living from their site, but it's generally just a single writer/employee.

The problem is you are passing judgment on all the links in the second sentence after stating you were only familiar with some of the links in the first sentence.  The Tyee is definitely not a single writer/employee struggling to make a living.  It is a digital newspaper.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 20, 2021, 02:11:20 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2021, 01:54:51 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 20, 2021, 01:23:42 PM
I'm familiar with some but not all of PRC's links.  I will check check them out.

The only problem though is they aren't much more than glorified blogs.  I think the writer may be earning a living from their site, but it's generally just a single writer/employee.

The problem is you are passing judgment on all the links in the second sentence after stating you were only familiar with some of the links in the first sentence.  The Tyee is definitely not a single writer/employee struggling to make a living.  It is a digital newspaper.

Fine, looking at The Tyee it has several different bylines.

But The Line is a substack site, so it's paid access only (good for them if they can make it work), and looks like it has about 3 bylines.

The Sprawl has several bylines, but half way down I see a note that they're downsizing to just one employee.

Daveberta (which is the site I know the most) is definitely just one guy - a guy name Dave.

And kimseiver is a site run by a woman named Kim Seiver.

SO I think my comment that " it's generally just a single writer/employee." stands up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on October 20, 2021, 02:20:10 PM
Yeah, it's a fair point that some of them are more "blog" oriented than true journalist sites.  As noted Tyee is definitely not on that blog side.

Neither would I consider the Line, as it has some veteran journalists on it.  The Line is substack, so has many subscription only articles, but also has many free articles - same as the Dispatch which was mentioned earlier, or Slate Star Codex / Astral Codex Ten.

Kim Siever is a man.  He is in that blog space but I think would be more properly categorized as citizen or independent journalism.  He states his sources and they appear to be very well researched. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 21, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Easy one, but still funny ;)
(https://scontent.fyhu1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/246680873_4631198416932983_358726803477595583_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=skQ2GZfMVZwAX9Z0ZRd&tn=pxI29bKL1p8sOsAF&_nc_ht=scontent.fyhu1-1.fna&oh=5ffc7325f536295074601d382423e536&oe=6175E03C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on October 21, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 21, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Easy one, but still funny ;)
(https://scontent.fyhu1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/246680873_4631198416932983_358726803477595583_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=skQ2GZfMVZwAX9Z0ZRd&tn=pxI29bKL1p8sOsAF&_nc_ht=scontent.fyhu1-1.fna&oh=5ffc7325f536295074601d382423e536&oe=6175E03C)

That's because most people are still working from home, and now with Metro running 30 minutes between trains, there's even less incentive to return to the office.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 21, 2021, 07:51:59 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on October 21, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 21, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Easy one, but still funny ;)
(https://scontent.fyhu1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/246680873_4631198416932983_358726803477595583_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=skQ2GZfMVZwAX9Z0ZRd&tn=pxI29bKL1p8sOsAF&_nc_ht=scontent.fyhu1-1.fna&oh=5ffc7325f536295074601d382423e536&oe=6175E03C)

That's because most people are still working from home, and now with Metro running 30 minutes between trains, there's even less incentive to return to the office.

Dat's not da joke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 22, 2021, 07:39:00 AM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/243345506_415295099967072_5312638970303509265_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ayiz7woCyEkAX_tUnqP&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=006b9a63a4bb138ff54b42be85fdc14f&oe=61985086)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on October 22, 2021, 07:40:40 AM
If no one knows what's going on how do you do research?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 22, 2021, 08:46:29 AM
My intuition is as good as or better than the accumulated knowledge of science any day. See, here's the nuclear plant I built using my intuition ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on October 22, 2021, 08:49:27 AM
I was confused, so grew a set of tomatoes. How are these supposed to help? Who do I throw them at?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 22, 2021, 08:57:58 AM
QuoteNew data suggests

Data is the plural form :nerd:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 22, 2021, 09:06:03 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 22, 2021, 08:57:58 AM
QuoteNew data suggests

Data is the plural form :nerd:
I think the use of this word as singular is wide enough to be considered correct now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on October 22, 2021, 10:01:29 AM
Fucking common usage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 22, 2021, 10:06:45 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 22, 2021, 09:06:03 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 22, 2021, 08:57:58 AM
QuoteNew data suggests

Data is the plural form :nerd:
I think the use of this word as singular is wide enough to be considered correct now.

Given the cryptic and not-so well sourced meme, it could be plural, for all we know, by our own research, obviously.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 22, 2021, 12:03:53 PM
On the topic of media bias:

QuoteTwitter admits bias in algorithm for rightwing politicians and news outlets
Home feed promotes rightwing tweets over those from the left, internal research finds

Twitter has admitted it amplifies more tweets from rightwing politicians and news outlets than content from leftwing sources.

The social media platform examined tweets from elected officials in seven countries – the UK, US, Canada, France, Germany, Spain and Japan. It also studied whether political content from news organisations was amplified on Twitter, focusing primarily on US news sources such as Fox News, the New York Times and BuzzFeed.

The study compared Twitter's "Home" timeline – the default way its 200 million users are served tweets, in which an algorithm tailors what users see – with the traditional chronological timeline where the most recent tweets are ranked first.

The research found that in six out of seven countries, apart from Germany, tweets from rightwing politicians received more amplification from the algorithm than those from the left; right-leaning news organisations were more amplified than those on the left; and generally politicians' tweets were more amplified by an algorithmic timeline than by the chronological timeline.

According to a 27-page research document, Twitter found a "statistically significant difference favouring the political right wing" in all the countries except Germany. Under the research, a value of 0% meant tweets reached the same number of users on the algorithm-tailored timeline as on its chronological counterpart, whereas a value of 100% meant tweets achieved double the reach. On this basis, the most powerful discrepancy between right and left was in Canada (Liberals 43%; Conservatives 167%), followed by the UK (Labour 112%; Conservatives 176%). Even excluding top government officials, the results were similar, the document said.

Twitter said it wasn't clear why its Home timeline produced these results and indicated that it may now need to change its algorithm. A blog post by Rumman Chowdhury, Twitter's director of software engineering, and Luca Belli, a Twitter researcher, said the findings could be "problematic" and that more study needed to be done. The post acknowledged that it was concerning if certain tweets received preferential treatment as a result of the way in which users interacted with the algorithm tailoring their timeline.

"Algorithmic amplification is problematic if there is preferential treatment as a function of how the algorithm is constructed versus the interactions people have with it. Further root cause analysis is required in order to determine what, if any, changes are required to reduce adverse impacts by our Home timeline algorithm," the post said.

Twitter said it would make its research available to outsiders such as academics and it is preparing to let third parties have wider access to its data, in a move likely to put further pressure on Facebook to do the same. Facebook is being urged by politicians on both sides of the Atlantic to distribute its research to third parties after tens of thousands of internal documents – which included revelations that the company knew its Instagram app damaged teenage mental health – were leaked by the whistleblower Frances Haugen.

The Twitter study compared the two ways in which a user can view their timeline: the first uses an algorithm to provide a tailored view of tweets that the user might be interested in based on the accounts they interact with most and other factors; the other is the more traditional timeline in which the user reads the most recent posts in reverse chronological order.

The study compared the two types of timeline by considering whether some politicians, political parties or news outlets were more amplified than others. The study analysed millions of tweets from elected officials between 1 April and 15 August 2020 and hundreds of millions of tweets from news organisations, largely in the US, over the same period.

Twitter said it would make its research available to third parties but said privacy concerns prevented it from making available the "raw data". The post said: "We are making aggregated datasets available for third party researchers who wish to reproduce our main findings and validate our methodology, upon request."

Twitter added that it was preparing to make internal data available to external sources on a regular basis. The company said its machine-learning ethics, transparency and accountability team was finalising plans in a way that would protect user privacy.

"This approach is new and hasn't been used at this scale, but we are optimistic that it will address the privacy-vs-accountability tradeoffs that can hinder algorithmic transparency," said Twitter. "We're excited about the opportunities this work may unlock for future collaboration with external researchers looking to reproduce, validate and extend our internal research."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-admits-bias-in-algorithm-for-rightwing-politicians-and-news-outlets
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on October 22, 2021, 12:27:40 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 22, 2021, 12:03:53 PM
On the topic of media bias:

QuoteTwitter admits bias in algorithm for rightwing politicians and news outlets
Home feed promotes rightwing tweets over those from the left, internal research finds

Twitter has admitted it amplifies more tweets from rightwing politicians and news outlets than content from leftwing sources.

The social media platform examined tweets from elected officials in seven countries – the UK, US, Canada, France, Germany, Spain and Japan. It also studied whether political content from news organisations was amplified on Twitter, focusing primarily on US news sources such as Fox News, the New York Times and BuzzFeed.

The study compared Twitter's "Home" timeline – the default way its 200 million users are served tweets, in which an algorithm tailors what users see – with the traditional chronological timeline where the most recent tweets are ranked first.

The research found that in six out of seven countries, apart from Germany, tweets from rightwing politicians received more amplification from the algorithm than those from the left; right-leaning news organisations were more amplified than those on the left; and generally politicians' tweets were more amplified by an algorithmic timeline than by the chronological timeline.

According to a 27-page research document, Twitter found a "statistically significant difference favouring the political right wing" in all the countries except Germany. Under the research, a value of 0% meant tweets reached the same number of users on the algorithm-tailored timeline as on its chronological counterpart, whereas a value of 100% meant tweets achieved double the reach. On this basis, the most powerful discrepancy between right and left was in Canada (Liberals 43%; Conservatives 167%), followed by the UK (Labour 112%; Conservatives 176%). Even excluding top government officials, the results were similar, the document said.

Twitter said it wasn't clear why its Home timeline produced these results and indicated that it may now need to change its algorithm. A blog post by Rumman Chowdhury, Twitter's director of software engineering, and Luca Belli, a Twitter researcher, said the findings could be "problematic" and that more study needed to be done. The post acknowledged that it was concerning if certain tweets received preferential treatment as a result of the way in which users interacted with the algorithm tailoring their timeline.

"Algorithmic amplification is problematic if there is preferential treatment as a function of how the algorithm is constructed versus the interactions people have with it. Further root cause analysis is required in order to determine what, if any, changes are required to reduce adverse impacts by our Home timeline algorithm," the post said.

Twitter said it would make its research available to outsiders such as academics and it is preparing to let third parties have wider access to its data, in a move likely to put further pressure on Facebook to do the same. Facebook is being urged by politicians on both sides of the Atlantic to distribute its research to third parties after tens of thousands of internal documents – which included revelations that the company knew its Instagram app damaged teenage mental health – were leaked by the whistleblower Frances Haugen.

The Twitter study compared the two ways in which a user can view their timeline: the first uses an algorithm to provide a tailored view of tweets that the user might be interested in based on the accounts they interact with most and other factors; the other is the more traditional timeline in which the user reads the most recent posts in reverse chronological order.

The study compared the two types of timeline by considering whether some politicians, political parties or news outlets were more amplified than others. The study analysed millions of tweets from elected officials between 1 April and 15 August 2020 and hundreds of millions of tweets from news organisations, largely in the US, over the same period.

Twitter said it would make its research available to third parties but said privacy concerns prevented it from making available the "raw data". The post said: "We are making aggregated datasets available for third party researchers who wish to reproduce our main findings and validate our methodology, upon request."

Twitter added that it was preparing to make internal data available to external sources on a regular basis. The company said its machine-learning ethics, transparency and accountability team was finalising plans in a way that would protect user privacy.

"This approach is new and hasn't been used at this scale, but we are optimistic that it will address the privacy-vs-accountability tradeoffs that can hinder algorithmic transparency," said Twitter. "We're excited about the opportunities this work may unlock for future collaboration with external researchers looking to reproduce, validate and extend our internal research."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-admits-bias-in-algorithm-for-rightwing-politicians-and-news-outlets

(Waits patiently for Beebs to start swearing at Jake)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on October 22, 2021, 12:29:53 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 22, 2021, 12:27:40 PM
(Waits patiently for Beebs to start swearing at Jake)

Why on earth would I do that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 22, 2021, 03:54:16 PM
So the media, it turns out, has a right-wing bias!  Suspicions confirmed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on October 22, 2021, 04:26:35 PM
No. Twitter's algorithm needs tweaking.

Twitter is an amplifier, not a content producer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 29, 2021, 12:01:23 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/250330192_1347834472301497_2508421146265711379_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=U-W-BeB1vkUAX9CXfg2&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=655c606a2e2d79e1fe10720f78aa8f69&oe=61A15AF3)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/250208632_1347889245629353_6051489554652288563_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=bfw_onRKstkAX9PBQjy&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=51d713e0cd02d2ae78091b4a63f7d668&oe=619FC391)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/249643071_1924434764403024_2318058401191834076_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zBonbTR06WgAX883_PS&_nc_oc=AQlNhSy0VniqcWfGTLMQWN24uIE4D8XSxjFQDvhdkdnZCk6f95BYSz928JG9pjPbAUg&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e5661de75341832c25b9a4fac0c35657&oe=61A0F991)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 29, 2021, 02:17:51 PM
I like #2.  America just ain't America without lung cancer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on October 29, 2021, 02:42:51 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 22, 2021, 08:46:29 AM
My intuition is as good as or better than the accumulated knowledge of science any day. See, here's the nuclear plant I built using my intuition ...

Go on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 29, 2021, 02:46:13 PM
 :hmm: I have a feeling The Brain would not be very complimentary of Malthus's nuclear plant.  Don't let that discourage you, Malthus, it's the thought that counts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on October 29, 2021, 06:35:11 PM
My nuclear plant runs on milk. Everyone knows that milk is wholesome and good for you. Thus, it must be better than those horrible plants that use uranium.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2021, 02:07:04 AM
My niece's husband is quite cheerful. :)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s600x600/249434208_5066029490091233_4713584642561706131_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=u-RFw195xhEAX-_yz84&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0d43f0eca300a602e9c5a0b20cf31577&oe=6182C6C2)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/248892564_244352684393603_1678706475917232797_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Op39gUlPRqUAX-iUXml&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b2b4ae7b3cea5b12552f07fc24f09832&oe=61A3B5A3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on October 31, 2021, 04:56:06 AM
So....he does believe in climate change?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: 11B4V on October 31, 2021, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2021, 02:07:04 AM
My niece's husband is quite cheerful. :)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s600x600/249434208_5066029490091233_4713584642561706131_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=u-RFw195xhEAX-_yz84&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=0d43f0eca300a602e9c5a0b20cf31577&oe=6182C6C2)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/248892564_244352684393603_1678706475917232797_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Op39gUlPRqUAX-iUXml&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=b2b4ae7b3cea5b12552f07fc24f09832&oe=61A3B5A3)

LARPer's
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 01, 2021, 01:49:49 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/247153430_1058678311572717_2667410713831530870_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=IGm3sDGVvDYAX8WION9&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=05cab905f8dc8edb55bb70c90bd093d2&oe=61A3C035)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/240611629_4268019689943845_9074942043797255734_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=hjTY0dVWCXkAX9TMpLW&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=8bbe15b2a8781a0f3033e320e44a03cc&oe=61A39260)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on November 01, 2021, 01:54:52 AM
What did the GoT actress tell us?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2021, 02:13:17 AM
Do cigarettes exist in Westeros?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 01, 2021, 03:11:28 AM
Waiting for Sky Daddy to fix things is the American can-do attitude we desperately need right now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 01, 2021, 03:21:17 AM
I wonder if Yahweh decided to repost.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 01, 2021, 09:10:37 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 01, 2021, 03:21:17 AM
I wonder if Yahweh decided to repost.

Even the Lord God likes pizza and cupcakes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 04, 2021, 12:35:02 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/252692908_4209449729177896_6354179795226876966_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=o0YGBQnDdVQAX_yKIX1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=1dd8cc1fb23e8b61b8d334711d0bfc59&oe=61A90C7A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 04, 2021, 01:01:56 AM
No one told me the microchip would grow out of my neck!! :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on November 04, 2021, 06:44:16 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 04, 2021, 01:01:56 AM
No one told me the microchip would grow out of my neck!! :o
Telling you about it would be quite counterproductive, don't you think?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 04, 2021, 10:49:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/249545100_10159396021224985_5197423281454511941_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=arZuICBU8K4AX8mdgsc&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=657f03756ff7e750b7cf62d61ab7d7ce&oe=6189B3E7)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/10349877_772316582855165_7869329216674352377_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=YMkfyUEQ2o8AX8mRzgF&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e38ae0a955ab5ef9fb171d4226f6829c&oe=61A982BF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/W4zjTCnv/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 04, 2021, 10:54:06 AM
I can understand why the people posting these memes would be extremely concerned about wait times to access neurological care.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 04, 2021, 12:58:37 PM
It's funny when right wing Americans attack the nhs and its shitty waiting times... When the entire reason its such a mess is governments with their ideology steadily defunding it to a bare minimum.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 04, 2021, 02:06:31 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 04, 2021, 12:58:37 PM
It's funny when right wing Americans attack the nhs and its shitty waiting times... When the entire reason its such a mess is governments with their ideology steadily defunding it to a bare minimum.

There was a funny video that popped up on my twitters showing how horrified Brits were when told how expensive medical care was in the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 04, 2021, 05:47:43 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 04, 2021, 02:06:31 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 04, 2021, 12:58:37 PM
It's funny when right wing Americans attack the nhs and its shitty waiting times... When the entire reason its such a mess is governments with their ideology steadily defunding it to a bare minimum.

There was a funny video that popped up on my twitters showing how horrified Brits were when told how expensive medical care was in the US.
You see this sort of thing around a lot.
Funnier would be showing horrified Brits finding out about French (or some other country) medical costs.
The entire concept of paying to see a doctor is just fundamentally alien. It was a big culture shock when I got ill in Japan.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2021, 07:00:38 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/251286861_415589386883782_6502662617919528347_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=NyhavZTnZswAX9jArUk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c98cc41e962c1c6a40d2141436c39efb&oe=61A9B1AB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on November 05, 2021, 08:25:58 AM
So why did the Dems win in New Jersey?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 05, 2021, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 05, 2021, 08:25:58 AM
So why did the Dems win in New Jersey?  :hmm:

Those ships got there, duh. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 05, 2021, 09:35:40 AM
The China stuff always makes me smirk.  Trump openly asked for Chinese help in the election, he still praises President Xi, his daughter received half a billion in Chinese copywrite, he pays Chinese taxes for reasons he has worked very hard to hide, and he has expressed his desire to protect Chinese jobs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/252622876_2681400688831339_6071443651212353130_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=wl1ClKWhG7gAX9OVPup&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6ae95cc0f46ead9423e5aa7018276407&oe=61AAB9D6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on November 05, 2021, 12:57:31 PM
I know its pointless to ask, but how has Biden supposedly made fuel more expensive which Trump would have not done?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on November 05, 2021, 12:58:24 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2021, 12:57:31 PM
I know its pointless to ask, but how has Biden supposedly made fuel more expensive which Trump would have not done?

JFK, jr and the Rolling Stones know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 05, 2021, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2021, 12:57:31 PM
I know its pointless to ask, but how has Biden supposedly made fuel more expensive which Trump would have not done?

Late at night, when everyone is asleep, he flies around the country in Air Force One and resets all the gas stations with higher prices.  He's that kind of SOB,
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 05, 2021, 01:43:01 PM
QuoteFast food worker Billy wants $15 per hour to flip your burger...
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
while nurses aid Dominque makes less than $10 per hour to toilet, wipe, bathe, dress, and feed your grandma.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Server Tina can make $20-30 an hour with good tips to bring you drinks and baskets of bread...
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
while nurse Andre makes less than $25 an hour to literally save your loved one's life.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Entrepreneur Bethany works 60+ hours a week chasing her dream.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Nurse's aid Connor works 60+ hours a week because they are short-staffed.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Business employee Tyrone feels stressed because an upcoming deadline has a promotion on the line.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Nurse Lee feels stressed because unsafe nurse to patient ratios put people's lives on the line.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
See a problem here?
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
If we want people to stay in healthcare and provide high quality care, we have to make their careers sustainable physically, mentally, and financially.
To all healthcare workers out there being overworked, underpaid, and under appreciated, THANK YOU for doing what you do. The world needs you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 05, 2021, 02:23:45 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 05, 2021, 12:57:31 PM
I know its pointless to ask, but how has Biden supposedly made fuel more expensive which Trump would have not done?

I asked my mom this, she says he shut down a pipeline.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 05, 2021, 02:39:48 PM
QuoteFast food worker Billy wants $15 per hour to flip your burger...
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
while nurses aid Dominque makes less than $10 per hour to toilet, wipe, bathe, dress, and feed your grandma.

Wait, what does Dominque want?  Are we to infer that Dominque doesn't want anything?  If so, I don't know what the problem is.  Billy is ambitious and wants to make more money.  I thought that was a positive trait.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2021, 01:43:04 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJPMTY6K/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 06, 2021, 03:09:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 05, 2021, 01:43:01 PM
QuoteFast food worker Billy wants $15 per hour to flip your burger...
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
while nurses aid Dominque makes less than $10 per hour to toilet, wipe, bathe, dress, and feed your grandma.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Server Tina can make $20-30 an hour with good tips to bring you drinks and baskets of bread...
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
while nurse Andre makes less than $25 an hour to literally save your loved one's life.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Entrepreneur Bethany works 60+ hours a week chasing her dream.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Nurse's aid Connor works 60+ hours a week because they are short-staffed.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Business employee Tyrone feels stressed because an upcoming deadline has a promotion on the line.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Nurse Lee feels stressed because unsafe nurse to patient ratios put people's lives on the line.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
See a problem here?
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
If we want people to stay in healthcare and provide high quality care, we have to make their careers sustainable physically, mentally, and financially.
To all healthcare workers out there being overworked, underpaid, and under appreciated, THANK YOU for doing what you do. The world needs you.

I suppose the Republican solution would be to reduce Billy's pay and stop people from tipping Tina  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 06, 2021, 03:14:45 AM
Nothing too new there.
"look after our own!"
"OK. Let's invest in helping people in poverty."
"No!"
Zero interest in actually helping careers and other underpaid people. They just can't stand that some poor people with jobs they deem to be bad  are fighting for higher wages.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2021, 03:51:12 AM
When did the person working in the old age home become "our own" to Republicans?  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 06, 2021, 03:57:05 AM
Since Syt's sister is a nurse.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 06, 2021, 09:20:30 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s600x600/249215807_4507408779296138_70218912698589689_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=UnJvlfJyeHgAX9JYqwG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=a19b4b7c6f357ef4328de6a0b1c67bd5&oe=61ACCBFF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 06, 2021, 09:26:17 AM
They're moaning about mean tweets a lot lately. Strange. Did something happen on that front?

(needless to say weird they believe these other things are new problems)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 06, 2021, 01:22:16 PM
"I grew up on the tweets."

The tweets:
[hilariously non-mean tweet]
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 06, 2021, 01:55:42 PM
Man, oppressions has really gotten a bad rap.  My country is descending into a totalitarian dictatorship and I haven't really noticed any changes at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2021, 12:17:49 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/254821201_10223773121213624_4494085689961151340_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Adr0qsVE-ToAX80L-Wt&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=aefef0768ff5598fced2f4a2bd131ccc&oe=61B1B9DA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on November 09, 2021, 03:10:39 PM
i do like the picture of Biden, it's a good pick
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2021, 01:58:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/49948793_10156913062098908_5746645707809357824_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4ajN7no04lEAX8lCL_l&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=adcf841f30763538eb3d9c48a4b5a08d&oe=61B35893)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on November 13, 2021, 02:02:23 AM
RE:RE:RE:FW:RE:FW:FW:FW
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 13, 2021, 05:06:20 AM
I love that they genuinely believe illegal immigrants are on benefits.
Yet stealing all the jobs.
The meaning of the word illegal is really lost on them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 13, 2021, 07:09:21 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 13, 2021, 05:06:20 AM
I love that they genuinely believe illegal immigrants are on benefits.
Yet stealing all the jobs.
The meaning of the word illegal is really lost on them.
Well these guys are the most persecuted, stolen from, downtrodden victims in history. They can't be expected to be completely accurate in their hyperbole re: job stealling welfare queen illegals can they? Too busy being crushed by oppression.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 13, 2021, 10:06:10 AM
The best part of the entire thing is just how fucking pathetic the sense of burden they think they are taking on.

Oh yeah dude, you are totally the breadwinner for all the poor and immigrants. You are the one keeping it all going, with your hard work and taxes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 15, 2021, 10:41:09 AM
My sister and friends: "Can't live off military pay? Your fault!"

(https://i.postimg.cc/3JVTpzLQ/image.png)

The linked article refers to this original source: https://apnews.com/article/hunger-in-america-military-food-insecurity-142728bcb5479fd2de73750e11dbd458

Fitting quote from the article:

QuoteAlso, the internal military culture of self-sufficiency leaves many reluctant to speak about their difficulties, for fear they will be regarded as irresponsible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 15, 2021, 08:43:17 PM
oooh, a Facebook poll that let's people masturbate and sneer at others at the same time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 16, 2021, 05:24:41 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 13, 2021, 10:06:10 AM
The best part of the entire thing is just how fucking pathetic the sense of burden they think they are taking on.

Oh yeah dude, you are totally the breadwinner for all the poor and immigrants. You are the one keeping it all going, with your hard work and taxes.
I do wonder.
Speaking to some of this kind of person they do have a huge problem of comprehending scale and the meanings of big numbers. They often do seriously believe their $1000 in tax is a sizable portion of the government budget and really not all that small a percent of several billion.
Then of course there are those who know very well its a nonsense but like to egg on the ignorant and choose to repeat what they know is false for the greater good (read: bad)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 16, 2021, 12:19:10 PM
It's that time of year again.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/72148797_10156289894306595_7981171669836234752_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Z5trxLkwE58AX9yU2T7&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=ba604700f0dc67c666c5214975cf8e97&oe=61B8F4D9)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 16, 2021, 12:25:57 PM
They claim that Santa doesn't exist?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 16, 2021, 12:38:16 PM
"Santa is a Man"

You see the material we have to deal with here?


"There were three wise MEN not wise PEOPLE" 

This is not found in the Bible.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 16, 2021, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 16, 2021, 12:38:16 PM
"Santa is a Man"

You see the material we have to deal with here?


"There were three wise MEN not wise PEOPLE" 

This is not found in the Bible.
I'm pretty sure the Bible does not use the word PEOPLE or "theybie".  At least nothing close to that in my French Bible.  But who knows what monstrosities the Protestants invented?? 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 16, 2021, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 16, 2021, 12:38:16 PM
"Santa is a Man"

You see the material we have to deal with here?


"There were three wise MEN not wise PEOPLE" 

This is not found in the Bible.

The Bible calls them "Magi" (well it calls them something in Greek typically translated as Magi).  It comes from Zoroastrian priests.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say that in that era there were no female zoroastrian priests.

And that ignores a sizeable amount of Christian tradition about their identities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on November 16, 2021, 12:51:09 PM
They were high level wizards who bumped up the newbie with magic gifts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 16, 2021, 12:55:25 PM
I don't think the Bible uses the word twink.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on November 16, 2021, 01:07:19 PM
Does the song really say that mommy is married?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 16, 2021, 01:33:31 PM
Quote from: PDH on November 16, 2021, 12:51:09 PM
They were high level wizards who bumped up the newbie with magic gifts.
As I recall AD&D did have mechanics for mentors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 16, 2021, 01:42:47 PM
I can never forget everything that makes me mean. :weep:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 16, 2021, 02:12:42 PM
So they're seeing roles of one of the 3 wise men in nativities going to girls, as why not, who cares, and throwing a fit about pc gone mad?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 16, 2021, 02:21:46 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 16, 2021, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 16, 2021, 12:38:16 PM
"Santa is a Man"

You see the material we have to deal with here?


"There were three wise MEN not wise PEOPLE" 

This is not found in the Bible.
I'm pretty sure the Bible does not use the word PEOPLE or "theybie".  At least nothing close to that in my French Bible.  But who knows what monstrosities the Protestants invented??

These three Kings have names!  :thumbsdown:

Melchior, Gaspar and Balthazar.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on November 16, 2021, 02:52:56 PM
My father was going to be named Balthazar. Which means i would have been named Balthazar. So while my name is weird, it could have been worse since i grew up in the pokemon era.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 16, 2021, 02:59:25 PM
A friend of mine is called Gaspar. His surname is Rey. Yes, it's hillarious.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 16, 2021, 03:06:18 PM
Quote from: HVC on November 16, 2021, 02:52:56 PM
My father was going to be named Balthazar. Which means i would have been named Balthazar. So while my name is weird, it could have been worse since i grew up in the pokemon era.

I went to high school with a kid named Balthazar - he was Filipino.  Didn't seem that strange.  But I guess this was pre-pokemon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2021, 03:11:21 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2021, 12:45:09 PM
The Bible calls them "Magi" (well it calls them something in Greek typically translated as Magi).  It comes from Zoroastrian priests.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say that in that era there were no female zoroastrian priests.

And that ignores a sizeable amount of Christian tradition about their identities.

It's only in Matthew though there are lots of extra-Biblical traditions.  Matthrew just says "magon" from the "East".  It isn't in the other gospels.
The Greek word "magos" is actually borrowed from the Persian.

As to whether there were any female Zoroastrian priests - they do exist now (in Iran of all places).  I'm not aware of affirmative evidence of female priests in that era, but the head of the Tehran council of Zoroastrian clergy claimed to have access to archival research indicating that there were: https://www.middleeasteye.net/features/zoroastrian-priestesses-iran.  One may view such claims with skepticism but it's not clear how one would prove the matter with certainty. 

There is tangible evidence of significant roles by women in early Christianity, including what appears to be in some official liturgical capacity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2021, 03:17:38 PM
The other interesting thing about the FB post is that nothing in it has anything to do with Christianity other than the reference to Jesus being a boy (is that really in dispute?).
This get back to the other thread about traditional celebrations and the thin veneer of Christianization.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 16, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
The bible does not name "three" wise men.  It give no number.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on November 16, 2021, 04:39:04 PM
So they could have been wise guys?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2021, 04:41:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 16, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
The bible does not name "three" wise men.  It give no number.

I thought it gave three names.  Or is that a later invention?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 16, 2021, 04:52:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2021, 04:41:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 16, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
The bible does not name "three" wise men.  It give no number.

I thought it gave three names.  Or is that a later invention?


Later invention.  Names differ from tradition to tradition.  They are still cool names, just not biblical.  Mascot of my High School was named after one of them (probably not intended),  Jasper. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2021, 05:20:17 PM
The magi are there as a lead in to a story about Herod which echoes the story of Pharaoh and Moses from the Exodus; it is even followed by a story where Mary, Joseph and Baby Jesus go to Egypt.  This all appears all to be a literary invention by the author of Matthew, who implies, contra Luke and Mark, that Jesus and his family had no connection to the Galilee until after Jesus was born.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 16, 2021, 05:27:55 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2021, 05:20:17 PM
The magi are there as a lead in to a story about Herod which echoes the story of Pharaoh and Moses from the Exodus; it is even followed by a story where Mary, Joseph and Baby Jesus go to Egypt.  This all appears all to be a literary invention by the author of Matthew, who implies, contra Luke and Mark, that Jesus and his family had no connection to the Galilee until after Jesus was born.

I seem to remember than the Gospel of Matthew's big thing was to tie Jesus into the various prophecies of the Messiah, to show how he fulfilled them.

I'm going to politely ignore the "literary invention" part of your response.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2021, 09:06:52 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2021, 05:27:55 PM

I'm going to politely ignore the "literary invention" part of your response.

Don't think of it as anti Gospel, think of it as pro-Mark
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 16, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2021, 09:06:52 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2021, 05:27:55 PM

I'm going to politely ignore the "literary invention" part of your response.

Don't think of it as anti Gospel, think of it as pro-Mark

In the Jesus Comics Universe, all the Gospels could be true at the same time, just in different dimensions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 17, 2021, 12:52:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/241193311_10224047050916796_4364019608348764552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=IgOcUwR8ouUAX8psVE4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9460143697da536e2edc7e41106f7efa&oe=61996807)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 17, 2021, 02:13:29 AM
That might be true of twitter, but certainly not of Teh Corporate Press.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 17, 2021, 03:49:20 AM
Doubtful of Twitter either. Epstein(who didn't kill himself :tinfoil:) was a much bigger story.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on November 17, 2021, 08:02:09 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 16, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2021, 09:06:52 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2021, 05:27:55 PM

I'm going to politely ignore the "literary invention" part of your response.

Don't think of it as anti Gospel, think of it as pro-Mark

In the Jesus Comics Universe, all the Gospels could be true at the same time, just in different dimensions.

No need to make it that complicated. Anyone complaining can simply be accused of insufficient suspension of disbelief.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 17, 2021, 11:42:29 AM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2021, 05:27:55 PM
I'm going to politely ignore the "literary invention" part of your response.

You are pretty much forced to do that if you want to believe that the Gospels are historically accurate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 17, 2021, 03:26:23 PM
To wit, that a real historical person from the Galilee must for ex post apologetic purposes be given a birthplace associated with the Davidic dynasty, resulting in what was even back then hackneyed and obviously contrived narratives to shoehorn a Bethlehemite birth onto a Nazarene.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 17, 2021, 04:50:32 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/257554209_10223566637407354_1663691104319535722_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Chzs3ZKPT2cAX-dIxOC&_nc_oc=AQk2mNfJE3E7wonwNKKQSeL7K1cBz8ayWkOeAdxJfH1u6Ku4sB3jmBqGGuZI7T0ZKSI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=70e6cf4a8421dccbba086684bb0baa60&oe=619A9D3F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 17, 2021, 05:27:09 PM
... Huh?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on November 17, 2021, 06:13:41 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 17, 2021, 05:27:09 PM
... Huh?
There's a vast left wing conspiracy to censor truth sayers.  See their latest victim, a poor, innocent House Representive only exercising his freedom of speech, and now, this, a trial that hasn't begun yet ain't even shown on television!  Q is here, hello!?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 19, 2021, 01:06:12 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/47451845_283098642550144_7838102516750352384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=CWR4gggh3bwAX_F_0Ji&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=3903f62369b5e0513d8dce33b617ceed&oe=61BE25C6)

Yes, because their *salaries* are the main contribution to making them millionaires.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 19, 2021, 09:35:32 AM
Opening arguments in the Maxwell trial begin Nov 29.

I too am outraged that the media has not used their time machines to illegally broadcast this future federal court criminal proceeding where cameras in the courtroom are barred by law.

QuoteExcept as otherwise provided by a statute or these rules, the court must not permit the taking of photographs in the courtroom during judicial proceedings or the broadcasting of judicial proceedings from the courtroom.
Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 53
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 30, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/119021597_10218094152209796_2719704782432234116_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=GQj0ubCawjgAX_uOzem&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e3e2471ec508240019e01c42ec180d4c&oe=61CA1C84)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 30, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
k
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 30, 2021, 10:50:48 AM
Man those gay and black people sure are oppressive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 30, 2021, 10:51:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 19, 2021, 01:06:12 AM
Yes, because their *salaries* are the main contribution to making them millionaires.

I was about to say...the only impact that would have is make them even more corrupt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 30, 2021, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 30, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/119021597_10218094152209796_2719704782432234116_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=GQj0ubCawjgAX_uOzem&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e3e2471ec508240019e01c42ec180d4c&oe=61CA1C84)


You posted this one before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 30, 2021, 11:46:45 AM
I tend to lose track.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 30, 2021, 12:01:26 PM
In response to a picture of a coal miner from a century ago:

QuoteThere you go that's what people done to survive NO HANDOUTS OR FREE ACCOMMODATION INTHEM DAYS AND NO WHINGING , NOT LIKE A LOT OF A CERTAIN GROUP, WHO THINK . THERE ANCESTORS WERE DEALT A BAD HAND AND SNOWFLAKES WHO SUPPORT THEM my opinion

No whinging?
Coal miners?
In the early 20th century?
err.....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 30, 2021, 01:25:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 30, 2021, 10:50:48 AM
Man those gay and black people sure are oppressive.

I do what I can.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 30, 2021, 01:29:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2021, 01:25:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 30, 2021, 10:50:48 AM
Man those gay and black people sure are oppressive.

I do what I can.

Lies.  If you really wanted to oppress the normies even more you'd come out as trans, or at least non-binary.   :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 30, 2021, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2021, 01:25:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 30, 2021, 10:50:48 AM
Man those gay and black people sure are oppressive.

I do what I can.
I think you can do more. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 30, 2021, 03:02:49 PM
Just like whitey to try to tell me I'm not doing enough, not good enough. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 30, 2021, 03:10:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2021, 03:02:49 PM
Just like whitey to try to tell me I'm not doing enough, not good enough. :rolleyes:

You will listen to me whitesplaining and you will like it!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 30, 2021, 03:16:01 PM
There are certain processes that must be followed when overcoming white racism! You should definitely let us white people tell you all about them....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 30, 2021, 03:33:17 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2021, 03:16:01 PM
There are certain processes that must be followed when overcoming white racism! You should definitely let us white people tell you all about them....

We built white supremacy after all, only we know how to dismantle it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 30, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Yes the same people who get their panties in a wad if a fantasy village features more than one race.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 30, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
I don't think garbon is enjoying this game.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on November 30, 2021, 04:21:22 PM
Why not?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on November 30, 2021, 04:23:43 PM
Doesn't he have like one straight and one gay parent or something?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 30, 2021, 04:30:44 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 30, 2021, 04:23:43 PM
Doesn't he have like one straight and one gay parent or something?
That's right. Eddie can straightwash this too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 30, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2021, 04:21:22 PM
Why not?

Your comment sounded more serious/genuine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on November 30, 2021, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Yes the same people who get their panties in a wad if a fantasy village features more than one race.

You are not referencing me, are you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on November 30, 2021, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 30, 2021, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Yes the same people who get their panties in a wad if a fantasy village features more than one race.

You are not referencing me, are you?
That seemed to have been aimed at the gamer/movie types who scream when a character is a person of color.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: PDH on November 30, 2021, 05:52:20 PM
That seemed to have been aimed at the gamer/movie types who scream when a character is a person of color.

Or, more accurately, when the actor playing the role is a person of color.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 01, 2021, 10:04:14 AM
Can we just leave politics out of this and maintain the status quo?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on December 01, 2021, 11:23:59 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: PDH on November 30, 2021, 05:52:20 PM
That seemed to have been aimed at the gamer/movie types who scream when a character is a person of color.

Or, more accurately, when the actor playing the role is a person of color.
I would say that is the crux of the problem - people can't get beyond the actor to the performance, they get stuck on the color.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 01, 2021, 11:41:08 AM
Quote from: PDH on December 01, 2021, 11:23:59 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: PDH on November 30, 2021, 05:52:20 PM
That seemed to have been aimed at the gamer/movie types who scream when a character is a person of color.

Or, more accurately, when the actor playing the role is a person of color.
I would say that is the crux of the problem - people can't get beyond the actor to the performance, they get stuck on the color.


I think we might be giving racists too much credit here.

There is valid criticism of "I just don't think he looks right for the part", such as for instance the (way it presented on the surface) upset over black Anne Boleyn or weird non racially linked casting of fictional characters.
But then a lot of the criticism, often claiming to be the first type, is purely from a "I don't want black people" pov.
Looking beyond how the person looks to the performance is very possible with the first. Actors who seem miscast can win over people who genuinely give a shit about the show.
With the second though... No. Its all about how they look.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 01, 2021, 01:56:43 PM
Exhibit 1
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 01, 2021, 03:31:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 01, 2021, 01:56:43 PM
Exhibit 1
Don't be dumb.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 01, 2021, 03:52:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Yes the same people who get their panties in a wad if a fantasy village features more than one race.

That's it. My patience and tolerance for you is gone. All your oppression is now your fault.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 01, 2021, 04:35:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 01, 2021, 03:52:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Yes the same people who get their panties in a wad if a fantasy village features more than one race.

That's it. My patience and tolerance for you is gone. All your oppression is now your fault.

:(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on December 01, 2021, 05:40:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 01, 2021, 03:52:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Yes the same people who get their panties in a wad if a fantasy village features more than one race.



That's it. My patience and tolerance for you is gone. All your oppression is now your fault.

He still hasn't apologized for his microaggression of calling me white :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 05:52:27 PM
I've never seen the historical Anne Boleyn herself so don't know why I would be traumatized by seeing her being portrayed by a non-WASP actor.  Perhaps a black Huck Finn (unless Jim was played by a white actor) might startle me for a bit, but if the actor can carry the role I soon forget who is the actor and just pay attention to the character.  Female Starbuck and Female Dr. Keynes didn't faze me for a second. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 02, 2021, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 30, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/119021597_10218094152209796_2719704782432234116_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=GQj0ubCawjgAX_uOzem&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e3e2471ec508240019e01c42ec180d4c&oe=61CA1C84)

The right actually does care quite a bit about people being gay - conversion therapy wasn't funded by right wing evangelicals for nothing.

It is laughable that the right wishes to be all liberal democratic except for the fact that they were provoked somehow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 02, 2021, 05:26:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 02, 2021, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 30, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/119021597_10218094152209796_2719704782432234116_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=GQj0ubCawjgAX_uOzem&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e3e2471ec508240019e01c42ec180d4c&oe=61CA1C84)

The right actually does care quite a bit about people being gay - conversion therapy wasn't funded by right wing evangelicals for nothing.

It is laughable that the right wishes to be all liberal democratic except for the fact that they were provoked somehow.

ranting about gays when using the phrase "shoving it down my throat" might not be the wisest choice of words. It looks more like people making fun of American right-wingers while sowing dissent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 02, 2021, 05:35:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 02, 2021, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 30, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/119021597_10218094152209796_2719704782432234116_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=GQj0ubCawjgAX_uOzem&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=e3e2471ec508240019e01c42ec180d4c&oe=61CA1C84)

The right actually does care quite a bit about people being gay - conversion therapy wasn't funded by right wing evangelicals for nothing.

It is laughable that the right wishes to be all liberal democratic except for the fact that they were provoked somehow.

"The right" is not some monolithic entity. Maybe he really doesn't care.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 02, 2021, 06:12:51 PM
Possible. But somehow unlikely given this post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 02, 2021, 06:17:51 PM
Viper is not a native English speaker, so he doesn't know the meaning here: "shoving it down my throat" means "existing".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 02, 2021, 06:19:05 PM
Even if it was true that the writer of that meme didn't care at all and is annoyed by fanatical cultish social justice activists who take thing in weird directions, it still makes no sense to use that as a justification for not having patience or tolerance for gay or ethnic minorities. It is not like all of them are that kind of extreme twitter social justice activist.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 02, 2021, 05:35:46 PM
"The right" is not some monolithic entity. Maybe he really doesn't care.

Right. And neither are dark skinned or gay people. That is the con of this meme and the kind of thinking it is hoping to perpetuate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 02, 2021, 06:30:10 PM
Why not?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 03, 2021, 01:35:49 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/262766431_1580057919022325_7156906327740281647_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=X1q7nLl6kc4AX-ABQxG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=87492d6e90b3119f291c92851dd99526&oe=61ADD113)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 04, 2021, 12:55:57 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/73381320_2417290488340587_4481039620158521344_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=PpQAvuoca7AAX-8IfQv&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=7f27747f2b55242cc973daa232e2085e&oe=61D128CA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2021, 01:42:20 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/264169525_10161761895002925_5153135491608974728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=p3gYMhtTcqEAX-cTTCg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=c0cc12bdd70a8a007c761af885a0bd77&oe=61B2DFF3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 06, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Well, the last sentence has some merit - disconnected from the rest of what was written.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 16, 2021, 12:15:17 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/266919502_2808144786006999_8625728495006444051_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&cb=c578a115-2e46c7d2&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=-9SHZgcomK0AX8qKJDH&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-l6RMeNheiMrHsWk1HoLzQQvpWosCrx7J8u9tN7nLhig&oe=61BFB580)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/261157993_1236314446891782_6325253187670093013_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&cb=c578a115-2e46c7d2&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=N4nTi8Zol98AX9Tv-2f&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9wIkA6Y9sMpJ4VjtD0rSH3kz_4jyZJqtOLa_fn99b70A&oe=61C111E2)



Also, if I was my sister's employer I'd be wary of any "natural" deaths under her watch. :ph34r:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/s720x720/15420922_10155599756734517_668768875816040701_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&cb=c578a115-2e46c7d2&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=br2cI94v7EIAX-Nib1U&_nc_oc=AQkWpXmVA7z9ME7bOLoJSpIlnXjGIvR6RDSw1nvdIfXZtAuAluA1jvlU18Xhlmu3XVs&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8xizqee2P67q12YrDu88tecSuaHsO3v7fjnVwt88Lb6Q&oe=61E09D61)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 16, 2021, 12:20:28 PM
That is wild. Why would any nurse have that opinion?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 16, 2021, 12:32:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 16, 2021, 12:20:28 PM
That is wild. Why would any nurse have that opinion?
Their patients may have differing political views.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 16, 2021, 12:41:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 16, 2021, 12:20:28 PM
That is wild. Why would any nurse have that opinion?

Not sure, but it reminds me of various cases of nurses killing patients to "end their needless suffering."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 12:46:36 PM
I can tell you that back in the day, we definitely went out to play after school, in the same clothes we wore to school, and rarely, if ever, did homework.

There must have been some other hellish time when kids only did homework after school.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 16, 2021, 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 16, 2021, 12:20:28 PM
That is wild. Why would any nurse have that opinion?

There are legitimate concerns about over-use of medical interventions because of economic incentives to generate billings or the practice of defensive medicine to avoid potential liability.
But I don't know what the intent was of the blurb.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on December 16, 2021, 12:48:57 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 16, 2021, 12:15:17 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/261157993_1236314446891782_6325253187670093013_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&cb=c578a115-2e46c7d2&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=N4nTi8Zol98AX9Tv-2f&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9wIkA6Y9sMpJ4VjtD0rSH3kz_4jyZJqtOLa_fn99b70A&oe=61C111E2)
It's good then that we changed our ways or else we would get more persons like the one that posted this...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 16, 2021, 12:49:34 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 12:46:36 PM
I can tell you that back in the day, we definitely went out to play after school, in the same clothes we wore to school, and rarely, if ever, did homework.

There must have been some other hellish time when kids only did homework after school.

I believe that was written by someone from the von Trapp family, pre Julie Andrews.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 16, 2021, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 16, 2021, 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 16, 2021, 12:20:28 PM
That is wild. Why would any nurse have that opinion?

There are legitimate concerns about over-use of medical interventions because of economic incentives to generate billings or the practice of defensive medicine to avoid potential liability.
But I don't know what the intent was of the blurb.

For sure but again I don't really get the nurse thinking we should let nature take its course
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 16, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
If you're a nurse who's been caring for anti-vaxxers non-stop for a while, I can understand why you might secretly harbor thoughts that maybe you should let nature take its course.  I would hope that they wouldn't act on those thoughts, however, or express them out loud.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 12:55:17 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 16, 2021, 12:49:34 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 12:46:36 PM
I can tell you that back in the day, we definitely went out to play after school, in the same clothes we wore to school, and rarely, if ever, did homework.

There must have been some other hellish time when kids only did homework after school.

I believe that was written by someone from the von Trapp family, pre Julie Andrews.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 16, 2021, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 16, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
If you're a nurse who's been caring for anti-vaxxers non-stop for a while, I can understand why you might secretly harbor thoughts that maybe you should let nature take its course.  I would hope that they wouldn't act on those thoughts, however, or express them out loud.

She's working at a care facility for elderly alzheimer and dementia patients. She's been there for a couple of months now, which seems longer than many of her previous nursing engagements.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 16, 2021, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 16, 2021, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 16, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
If you're a nurse who's been caring for anti-vaxxers non-stop for a while, I can understand why you might secretly harbor thoughts that maybe you should let nature take its course.  I would hope that they wouldn't act on those thoughts, however, or express them out loud.

She's working at a care facility for elderly alzheimer and dementia patients. She's been there for a couple of months now, which seems longer than many of her previous nursing engagements.
:unsure: On the one hand, it's unsettling.  On the other hand, I think that such facilities in the US are already pretty good at facilitating the nature taking its course on a systemic level, so I'm not sure individual nurses can make much of a difference.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 16, 2021, 03:19:28 PM
Today's society. Lower expectations. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 16, 2021, 03:46:48 PM
Back in the 80s and 90s I used to kind of believe the idea that society had degenerated since hey I wasn't there in the 30s, 40s, and 50s...but current old farts trying to convinve me how hard working and noble everybody was in the 70s and 80s makes me laugh. Um I was there...no we weren't. We were no less degenerates then as we are now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2021, 03:46:48 PM
We were no less degenerates then as we are now.

We were a lot more degenerate
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 16, 2021, 04:16:17 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2021, 03:46:48 PM
We were no less degenerates then as we are now.

We were a lot more degenerate

:lol: true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 17, 2021, 01:57:27 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/wxL24p6K/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on December 17, 2021, 02:21:33 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2021, 03:46:48 PM
We were no less degenerates then as we are now.

We were a lot more degenerate

The young people I know these days are generally shockingly well behaved  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Gups on December 17, 2021, 06:40:43 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 17, 2021, 02:21:33 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2021, 03:46:48 PM
We were no less degenerates then as we are now.

We were a lot more degenerate

The young people I know these days are generally shockingly well behaved  :)

Yes. It's disgusting
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 17, 2021, 06:51:02 AM
Quote from: Gups on December 17, 2021, 06:40:43 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 17, 2021, 02:21:33 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2021, 03:46:48 PM
We were no less degenerates then as we are now.

We were a lot more degenerate

The young people I know these days are generally shockingly well behaved  :)

Yes. It's disgusting

:lol:


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 17, 2021, 12:09:53 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 17, 2021, 02:21:33 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 16, 2021, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 16, 2021, 03:46:48 PM
We were no less degenerates then as we are now.

We were a lot more degenerate

The young people I know these days are generally shockingly well behaved  :)

I think it has a lot to do with economic insecurity.  Young people have to be a lot more conformist now - there is intense pressure on them to build a performance portfolio to get into good schools-get good jobs etc.  And then still live with their parents because housing prices are insane and out of reach. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 19, 2021, 02:07:46 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/d39gVZXM/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 19, 2021, 06:44:26 PM
I'm guessing she hasn't read Saul Alinsky. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 20, 2021, 04:29:23 AM
That's actually from my brother in law. But yeah, no idea if he read him, either. He's also one who said (sarcastically, I assume) that Elon Musk as African-American being TIME's person of the year is a win for the BLM movement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 23, 2021, 01:06:57 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/269743642_10224770318099595_3774029610801867806_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=KzQ-zJFdGFwAX8cTwQJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9G1PugJjfgJdWwmZelMUQXED_CVvpDmDj5nxV_KQuwAA&oe=61CA856B)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/15622174_1614495242188300_2605175281471401121_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=lx8lQulq4PkAX8_oOlf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9MNPxtdGb5KZCJSYng2GN2fQb82Kej6mZ2rey8HaN0Cg&oe=61EBC831)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/47351302_2250248415242489_7865509437505536000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=yyY9ynMNOo8AX8da6cC&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_Hxujrf3KkYNrilvLUv4Ip0Mq_LeeRwdJ28fUrW6cUOw&oe=61E9B3A7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 23, 2021, 01:08:52 PM
Such wit. Much comedy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 23, 2021, 02:39:36 PM
So, Syt, is your bro-in-law actually taking Growacet?  After all, there is no group whinier, more easily offended, and less able to take a joke than the MAGAts. "the media is all against us!" "twitter is violating our free speech rights!"  "they want to take away our guns!" "Stephen Colbert is such a meanie!" etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 23, 2021, 03:53:13 PM
I really don't know how Syt has the patience to save, reupload and post all these.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 24, 2021, 03:12:13 AM
Those were from my oldest sister. And it's mostly just direct linking to the Facebook images, so not really much effort.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on December 24, 2021, 04:18:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 24, 2021, 03:12:13 AM
Those were from my oldest sister. And it's mostly just direct linking to the Facebook images, so not really much effort.

So that's why I don't see many of the images you post in this thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 10, 2022, 11:54:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/271561748_468644107961289_4980584200747865015_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=la61KJtBTa0AX-aCHpX&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9gmfcFMaEO_KGPUV4rpzEhxN8GK98gMbu405xCrNOmUw&oe=61E243D5)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/269021708_10215724492984803_4230926694454682755_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VxvDhEVTA0YAX-dKMKw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8TPfcBzxG6sUAORX9xX_TcveE_YZhpZ93z60aPucGyuA&oe=61E2289F)

The second one baffles me. I would expect a R.E. Lee statue as illustration, not the Romanov family. :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 10, 2022, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 10, 2022, 11:54:29 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/269021708_10215724492984803_4230926694454682755_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VxvDhEVTA0YAX-dKMKw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8TPfcBzxG6sUAORX9xX_TcveE_YZhpZ93z60aPucGyuA&oe=61E2289F)

The second one baffles me. I would expect a R.E. Lee statue as illustration, not the Romanov family. :unsure:

It's about arch-conservatives who thought they would change and destroy Russia's history or die trying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 10, 2022, 12:18:48 PM
Are there censored histories out there that leave out the Romanovs or something? And I don't have to teach my kids about them as they are pretty big historical celebrities with tons of Youtube videos and even a disney-ish cartoon about them. Next they will demand I intervene to keep the memory of Hitler alive.

As far as the first one that happens all the time with gas powered vehicles as well...eventually cars in a situation like that run out of fuel, especially as many of those cars would have less than full tanks at the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 10, 2022, 12:26:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 10, 2022, 12:18:48 PM


As far as the first one that happens all the time with gas powered vehicles as well...eventually cars in a situation like that run out of fuel, especially as many of those cars would have less than full tanks at the time.

Their point though is that you can bring gas to them if that happens. Somehow.

You can't bring a charging station.

Except....if half the cars were electric....you could most definitely bring a charging station to them, at least there isn't any reason to imagine a emergency vehicle with the ability to charge another vehicle.....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on January 10, 2022, 03:10:35 PM
You could also just finance proper winter service for your highways, but I guess that goes against rugged individualism that American conservatives love so much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 10, 2022, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 10, 2022, 12:26:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 10, 2022, 12:18:48 PM


As far as the first one that happens all the time with gas powered vehicles as well...eventually cars in a situation like that run out of fuel, especially as many of those cars would have less than full tanks at the time.

Their point though is that you can bring gas to them if that happens. Somehow.

You can't bring a charging station.

Except....if half the cars were electric....you could most definitely bring a charging station to them, at least there isn't any reason to imagine a emergency vehicle with the ability to charge another vehicle.....
To be fair, a gas can is still a hell of a lot simpler solution than a portable charging station of any kind.  That emergency vehicle with a charger could carry 100 jerry cans of gas, and get 100 cars running in the amount of time it takes to pour it in the tank (as long as they didn't run completely dry).  An internal combustion engine vehicle is surely more robust to infrastructure catastrophes, as it's hard to beat the simplicity, portability, and energy density of gasoline.  That doesn't mean that we should make our infrastructure decisions solely based on robustness to infrastructure failures, however.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 10, 2022, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 10, 2022, 12:18:48 PM
Are there censored histories out there that leave out the Romanovs or something? And I don't have to teach my kids about them as they are pretty big historical celebrities with tons of Youtube videos and even a disney-ish cartoon about them. Next they will demand I intervene to keep the memory of Hitler alive.

As far as the first one that happens all the time with gas powered vehicles as well...eventually cars in a situation like that run out of fuel, especially as many of those cars would have less than full tanks at the time.
What that means is when the socialist take power (the Democratic Party, with AOC at its head, as supreme dictator or something ;) ), there will be mass executions and internment/reeducation camp set up in the US.

It means that if you know your history, you will vote for the ultra-conservatives before the progressives, because history has taught us they are always benevolent people who don't go around murdering people for their political views.


If you don't remember this version of history, you apparently got the wrong books in school.  :shutup:   :P




i.e., it has nothing to do with the Romanovs specifically, just the danger of a socialist takeover in the US.  Apparently a very real possibility.  Very recent history has also taught us that radical leftist mobs are assaulting the Congress when they don't get the result they wanted. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 10, 2022, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: Zanza on January 10, 2022, 03:10:35 PM
You could also just finance proper winter service for your highways, but I guess that goes against rugged individualism that American conservatives love so much.

Or you could finance proper winter service for your highways and still get overwhelmed by an improper amount of snow.  But don't anyone let facts get in the way of a good "gotcha."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 10, 2022, 04:47:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 10, 2022, 03:42:55 PM
To be fair, a gas can is still a hell of a lot simpler solution than a portable charging station of any kind.  That emergency vehicle with a charger could carry 100 jerry cans of gas, and get 100 cars running in the amount of time it takes to pour it in the tank (as long as they didn't run completely dry).  An internal combustion engine vehicle is surely more robust to infrastructure catastrophes, as it's hard to beat the simplicity, portability, and energy density of gasoline.  That doesn't mean that we should make our infrastructure decisions solely based on robustness to infrastructure failures, however.

Agreed, but would also note that the drain on a car's battery to just operate the heating is likely to be similar to the drain on a gas tank of running the engine to keep the heat going, so the "what if all the wheels fell off electric cars but not ICE cars'-type conjecture seems dumb to me.  Getting the ICE car started after running out of fuel is simpler, as you note, but the disaster being invented by the loonies on the right doesn't make a damn bit of sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 10, 2022, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 10, 2022, 04:47:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 10, 2022, 03:42:55 PM
To be fair, a gas can is still a hell of a lot simpler solution than a portable charging station of any kind.  That emergency vehicle with a charger could carry 100 jerry cans of gas, and get 100 cars running in the amount of time it takes to pour it in the tank (as long as they didn't run completely dry).  An internal combustion engine vehicle is surely more robust to infrastructure catastrophes, as it's hard to beat the simplicity, portability, and energy density of gasoline.  That doesn't mean that we should make our infrastructure decisions solely based on robustness to infrastructure failures, however.

Agreed, but would also note that the drain on a car's battery to just operate the heating is likely to be similar to the drain on a gas tank of running the engine to keep the heat going, so the "what if all the wheels fell off electric cars but not ICE cars'-type conjecture seems dumb to me.  Getting the ICE car started after running out of fuel is simpler, as you note, but the disaster being invented by the loonies on the right doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

No, the heating system in an EV would drain the battery a lot faster than a heater on an internal combustion engine - it is the heat from the engine itself that runs the heater, the electricity is just to power the fans.  No such luck on an EV.  The scenario is that EV's run out of energy faster than an internal combustion engine.  And that is undeniably true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 10, 2022, 06:26:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 10, 2022, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 10, 2022, 04:47:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 10, 2022, 03:42:55 PM
To be fair, a gas can is still a hell of a lot simpler solution than a portable charging station of any kind.  That emergency vehicle with a charger could carry 100 jerry cans of gas, and get 100 cars running in the amount of time it takes to pour it in the tank (as long as they didn't run completely dry).  An internal combustion engine vehicle is surely more robust to infrastructure catastrophes, as it's hard to beat the simplicity, portability, and energy density of gasoline.  That doesn't mean that we should make our infrastructure decisions solely based on robustness to infrastructure failures, however.

Agreed, but would also note that the drain on a car's battery to just operate the heating is likely to be similar to the drain on a gas tank of running the engine to keep the heat going, so the "what if all the wheels fell off electric cars but not ICE cars'-type conjecture seems dumb to me.  Getting the ICE car started after running out of fuel is simpler, as you note, but the disaster being invented by the loonies on the right doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

No, the heating system in an EV would drain the battery a lot faster than a heater on an internal combustion engine - it is the heat from the engine itself that runs the heater, the electricity is just to power the fans.  No such luck on an EV.  The scenario is that EV's run out of energy faster than an internal combustion engine.  And that is undeniably true.

Depends on how much gas you have. Besides in most disasters like this that I am aware of most of the cars end up running out of gas trying to stay warm. I guess the difference is how fast you can get the vehicles charged up enough to drive to a charger. I am not sure why hauling huge amounts of fuel to that area is easier but I don't know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 10, 2022, 07:35:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 10, 2022, 06:26:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 10, 2022, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 10, 2022, 04:47:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 10, 2022, 03:42:55 PM
To be fair, a gas can is still a hell of a lot simpler solution than a portable charging station of any kind.  That emergency vehicle with a charger could carry 100 jerry cans of gas, and get 100 cars running in the amount of time it takes to pour it in the tank (as long as they didn't run completely dry).  An internal combustion engine vehicle is surely more robust to infrastructure catastrophes, as it's hard to beat the simplicity, portability, and energy density of gasoline.  That doesn't mean that we should make our infrastructure decisions solely based on robustness to infrastructure failures, however.

Agreed, but would also note that the drain on a car's battery to just operate the heating is likely to be similar to the drain on a gas tank of running the engine to keep the heat going, so the "what if all the wheels fell off electric cars but not ICE cars'-type conjecture seems dumb to me.  Getting the ICE car started after running out of fuel is simpler, as you note, but the disaster being invented by the loonies on the right doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

No, the heating system in an EV would drain the battery a lot faster than a heater on an internal combustion engine - it is the heat from the engine itself that runs the heater, the electricity is just to power the fans.  No such luck on an EV.  The scenario is that EV's run out of energy faster than an internal combustion engine.  And that is undeniably true.

Depends on how much gas you have. Besides in most disasters like this that I am aware of most of the cars end up running out of gas trying to stay warm. I guess the difference is how fast you can get the vehicles charged up enough to drive to a charger. I am not sure why hauling huge amounts of fuel to that area is easier but I don't know.

Two separate things.  First, the EV cars are going to run out of energy with their heater on a lot faster than a internal combustion engine that is heating the car by just idling.  The draw on my EV for heating is quite an expenditure.  To retain range I bundle up and keep the heater off most of the time.  It is one of the big downsides of an EV - even in a warmish city like Vancouver.  It will be a lot better when they have longer ranges and so this will become less of a concern.

The second is DG is correct about the amount of time it would take to charge vs simply dumping fuel into an empty gas tank.   It would depend on how close the nearest high volume charging station is, but likely talking 20-30 minutes per car to charge to get them some minimum distance - the tow trucks are not carrying fast chargers...  Plus range is much lower in cold temperatures because of the battery chemistry.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on January 11, 2022, 08:46:45 AM
If we had just stuck with horses, we would be so much better off, since they don't require gas OR electricity!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 11, 2022, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 11, 2022, 08:46:45 AM
If we had just stuck with horses, we would be so much better off, since they don't require gas OR electricity!

I can see how a simpleton might think that, but in reality horses are very high maintenance.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 11, 2022, 09:18:43 AM
Have you seen the prices of hay lately?!?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 11, 2022, 09:25:09 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 11, 2022, 08:46:45 AM
If we had just stuck with horses, we would be so much better off, since they don't require gas OR electricity!

Can you imagine bringing all that fodder out to a frozen Viriginia highway? 

There is only one possible conclusion here - just use your legs and walk.  Heavy winter coats don't need fuel or electricity.  Problem solved!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 11, 2022, 09:25:14 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 11, 2022, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 11, 2022, 08:46:45 AM
If we had just stuck with horses, we would be so much better off, since they don't require gas OR electricity!

I can see how a simpleton might think that, but in reality horses are very high maintenance.
:yes:

:hmm:

:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 12, 2022, 12:30:20 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 11, 2022, 09:25:09 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 11, 2022, 08:46:45 AM
If we had just stuck with horses, we would be so much better off, since they don't require gas OR electricity!

Can you imagine bringing all that fodder out to a frozen Viriginia highway? 

There is only one possible conclusion here - just use your legs and walk.  Heavy winter coats don't need fuel or electricity.  Problem solved!

Not to mention the time it would take for the horses to eat, digest and become refueled.  It would make charging times on EVs look like dumping fuel into internal combustion cars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on January 12, 2022, 01:29:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 10, 2022, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: Zanza on January 10, 2022, 03:10:35 PM
You could also just finance proper winter service for your highways, but I guess that goes against rugged individualism that American conservatives love so much.

Or you could finance proper winter service for your highways and still get overwhelmed by an improper amount of snow.  But don't anyone let facts get in the way of a good "gotcha."
Sure, that can happen.

But the only available information on the amount of snow I had was a single photo that accompanied the story. That photo does not show and inordinate amount of snow that would overwhelm proper winter service.

But based on Syt's relatives usual stances I guess they consider public winter service communist anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 17, 2022, 05:22:19 PM
My sister sees through the lies! :o

(https://i.postimg.cc/4ywxLwsy/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 18, 2022, 12:36:41 PM
with all the vaccines?  Would your sister prefer that there was only one vaccine by one manufacturer?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 18, 2022, 01:35:25 PM
I doubt he ever said dewormer was a cure for SARS virii.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 18, 2022, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 18, 2022, 01:35:25 PM
I doubt he ever said dewormer was a cure for SARS virii.

Seriously?  :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 18, 2022, 02:32:45 PM
Maybe he did. I'll have to: Do My Research.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 18, 2022, 03:40:28 PM
So there is still hope! :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2022, 12:57:52 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/118953066_10158220028604823_6594103758010844988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=R_MFmitlmoQAX8GfBQ5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-zQyY3PchO2e-Qz7J0z1UOInd3_0wPOs4v06PFteydoA&oe=6210914F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 20, 2022, 01:39:00 PM
 :hmm: That's a bit out of date, no?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 20, 2022, 02:43:31 PM
Did right wing evangelicals stop worshiping God?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 20, 2022, 03:06:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 20, 2022, 12:57:52 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/118953066_10158220028604823_6594103758010844988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=R_MFmitlmoQAX8GfBQ5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-zQyY3PchO2e-Qz7J0z1UOInd3_0wPOs4v06PFteydoA&oe=6210914F)
when was that? 1615?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 20, 2022, 03:11:49 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 20, 2022, 03:06:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 20, 2022, 12:57:52 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhttent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fv%2Ft1.6435-9%2Fp526x296%2F118953066_10158220028604823_6594103758010844988_n.jpg%3F_nc_cat%3D1%26amp%3Bccb%3D1-5%26amp%3B_nc_sid%3D8bfeb9%26amp%3B_nc_ohc%3DR_MFmitlmoQAX8GfBQ5%26amp%3B_nc_ht%3Dscontent-vie1-1.xx%26amp%3Boh%3D00_AT-zQyY3PchO2e-Qz7J0z1UOInd3_0wPOs4v06PFteydoA%26amp%3Boe%3D6210914F&hash=55fcafd605785fa154a555d0607f28773b28f1b7)
when was that? 1615?
Treasuring new borns eliminates that.
And revering veterans.
And respecting police.

The new borns one is mystifying. I guess it's an abortion reference but what a weird way to put it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 20, 2022, 03:15:28 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 20, 2022, 02:43:31 PM
Did right wing evangelicals stop worshiping God?
Well, they monetized it to a large extent, so they did spiritually.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 20, 2022, 03:38:56 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 20, 2022, 03:11:49 PM
The new borns one is mystifying. I guess it's an abortion reference but what a weird way to put it.

It's a criticism of the Republican refusal to continue the child tax credit.  It can't be a criticism of the Republican veto of maternity and paternity leave, because that's never existed on a national level in the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 20, 2022, 03:40:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 20, 2022, 02:43:31 PM
Did right wing evangelicals stop worshiping God?

They switched to a different god.  The Old testament dude.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on January 20, 2022, 03:55:51 PM
Does treasuring children involve putting them in a treasury box, and burying it deep underground so no one can cause them any harm?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 21, 2022, 10:01:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 20, 2022, 12:57:52 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/118953066_10158220028604823_6594103758010844988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=R_MFmitlmoQAX8GfBQ5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-zQyY3PchO2e-Qz7J0z1UOInd3_0wPOs4v06PFteydoA&oe=6210914F)

Huh - posting anti-Trump propaganda now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 21, 2022, 11:29:09 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 20, 2022, 03:40:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 20, 2022, 02:43:31 PM
Did right wing evangelicals stop worshiping God?

They switched to a different god.  The Old testament dude.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 23, 2022, 03:56:15 AM
QuoteNot my words, but all true!

"Failing to enforce the law of the land is Treason.

LISTED BELOW are several of the arguments that have been used by misguided people to try and justify illegal immigration.

1) They are an economic necessity - Not true. The idea that a bunch of desperately poor, uneducated, unskilled, non-English speaking foreigners are an economic necessity is ludicrous. In fact, when you compare cost vs. benefit, it is obvious that they are not only NOT a necessity, they are not even an asset. Rather, they are a liability and a huge one at that.

2) They do work Americans won't do - Not true. They take jobs our kids use to do after school and on weekends. They do work Americans won't do for $10 an hour (especially if Americans can collect welfare and unemployment instead). Of course, if you got rid of the illegal's, the jobs wouldn't pay $10 an hour. The people who wanted the work done would have to pay a wage that was attractive enough to get Americans to do the work. And it might even be enough to get Americans off the unemployment and welfare dole and back into the taxpaying workforce!

3) We benefit from all that "cheap" labor - This is nonsense. The only people who benefit from the cheap labor are the unscrupulous people who hire illegal immigrants. Taxpayers are left holding the bag. Ultimately, it is they who must pay to support all the Americans who have been put out of work by illegal's and must also provide billions of dollars in services and benefits to the illegal's themselves.

4) They are just trying to make better lives - Aren't we all? The difference is that most of us understand that we DO NOT have a right to acquire by illegal means those things that we find difficult to acquire by legal means. And we certainly don't have the right to do it in a foreign country.

5) It is impossible to round up and deport the illegal's - We don't have to. All we have to do is remove the incentives that brought them here in the first place. No jobs. No housing. No taxpayer financed services or benefits (including education). Once we remove the incentives that brought them here, they will leave on their own.

6) Immigration control is racist / xenophobic - This is just another play of the race card by people who have no other cards to play. Immigration control is the world-wide status quo. There is nothing racist about it. Furthermore, the USA welcomes LEGAL immigrants of all races and ethnicities from all over the world who have gone through the legal immigration process. This is not just a bad argument; it is an attempt to create racial hatred and division.

7) We are a nation of immigrants - This is the "BIG LIE". The vast majority of Americans are native-born. I am not an immigrant. Nor were my parents. Nor were my grandparents. We are a nation that has, historically, allowed and even encouraged LEGAL immigration. And we continue to do so. The issue at hand is illegal immigration, which has nothing to do with legal immigration.

8)They are people. We must treat them humanely - Yes & yes. But let us not pretend like they are victims who were dragged here kicking and screaming against their will. Nothing could be further from the truth. They came of their own free will and for their own benefit and they broke the law to do it. PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED FOR BREAKING LAWS AND COMMITTING CRIMES. SENDING THEM HOME IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. There is nothing "draconian" or "mean-spirited" about it.

9) It is wrong to break up families- Yes. Unfortunately, families are often broken up by criminal activity. If you don't believe it, just drop by any prison or jail on visiting day. We can't keep families together if some family members choose to participate in criminal activity.

10) They work & contribute to our society - So do I. And if I break the law and commit crimes, I can expect to pay a penalty of some kind. Anything from a small fine to the death penalty. I do not receive a reward. WHY SHOULD WE TREAT FOREIGN CRIMINALS BETTER THAN OUR OWN CITIZENS?

Any support for any illegal's is no less then treason, they are invaders,
Someone told me Treason only applies in war. This is not true. It is when one breaks the oath of office and aids in the breaking of the law of the land and helps people of other countries to do harm to us. "

Share

I'm amused my German-born sister shared a rant saying "I am not an immigrant. Nor were my parents. Nor were my grandparents." :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 23, 2022, 04:25:31 AM
2/3 ain't bad?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 23, 2022, 04:57:43 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 23, 2022, 04:25:31 AM
2/3 ain't bad?

Well, my our parents/grandparents were refugees. But as they never fail to point out, they were "real" refugees, fleeing the Red Army and they fled within the country, not like people today fleeing oppressive poverty or crime or war in their countries (I know that there's differences between the groups worth talking about, but the "good" vs "bad" refugees distinction seems a bit simplistic).

They like to romanticize this as a time when people stood together to help one another.

While that's not wrong, there was also a lot of hostility towards the refugees who needed housing, food, etc. in areas that either had been ravaged during the war, or otherwise didn't have many resources to deal with them. There's a reason you have in most larger West German towns areas with streets named after towns in areas ceded to Poland and Russia after the war, often with houses from ca. the 50s - these were often created to house the new arrivals (the GDR didn't memorialize the lost territories that way). It was quite notable in my home state Schleswig-Holstein who took in the second most refugees from the East - it was reachable via sea, plus it was one of the last areas to be occupied.

In 1939 the state it had close to 1.6 million people, in 1946 close to 2.6 million (200k refugees from Hamburg had been housed there during the war as well). The numbers dropped a bit till the 1960s, but largely stayed at that level (it sits at 2.9 million at the moment).

And of course the resentment already existed during the war. People from the cities who were moved to the countryside often resented their accommodations for not having the same amenities as the cities. Likewise, rural populations resented their guests who needed resources and often had more money to throw around (not to mention a snobby attitude).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 23, 2022, 10:52:19 AM
Most of these points quoted are not obviously wrong.  In fact, most of them are reasonable on the face of it.  I agree that points 2 and 3 are in fact good refutations of bad arguments supporting illegal immigration, though the "welfare" references are uncomfortably close to dog whistles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 23, 2022, 03:13:05 PM
The resevoir of cheap labor seems to be drying up as we have a labor shortage right now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 23, 2022, 06:34:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 23, 2022, 03:13:05 PM
The resevoir of cheap labor seems to be drying up as we have a labor shortage right now.
There is no such thing as labor shortage, there is only a stubborn unwillingness to pay a wage that will attract and retain labor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 24, 2022, 02:27:17 AM
Quote from: DGuller on January 23, 2022, 06:34:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 23, 2022, 03:13:05 PM
The resevoir of cheap labor seems to be drying up as we have a labor shortage right now.
There is no such thing as labor shortage, there is only a stubborn unwillingness to pay a wage that will attract and retain labor.

You can offer to pay 200 an hour if you want. You're still not going to make a skilled electrician (or whatever) appear overnight if there aren't any about.

You can temporarily solve your hiring problems by paying more but this won't help the economy overall. All you're doing is swiping a worker from elsewhere. It's a short term fix that will lead to a nasty negative feedback loop of economic unravelling.

This is not a healthy way to increase wages.

Of course. There's the very valid point that companies are usually unwilling to increase wages when times are good as they really should be doing which means for worker welfare shit times like this can be useful. But if this isn't constrained to certain industries and is allowed to go everywhere at once then the net result is not many people are actually richer thanks to inflation and other issues.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 24, 2022, 02:47:36 AM
Why is that not a healthy way to increase wages?  I think it's a the healthiest.  The rising price sends a signal to everyone else that this is a lucrative field to enter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 24, 2022, 02:50:42 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 24, 2022, 02:47:36 AM
Why is that not a healthy way to increase wages?  I think it's a the healthiest.  The rising price sends a signal to everyone else that this is a lucrative field to enter.
Which will take the better part of a decade to see results.
And what about the jobs they would otherwise be doing?
All you're doing is shuttling water from one leaky bucket to another.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 24, 2022, 03:00:15 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 24, 2022, 02:50:42 AM
Which will take the better part of a decade to see results.
And what about the jobs they would otherwise be doing?
All you're doing is shuttling water from one leaky bucket to another.

It hardly takes 10 years to train an electrician.

The other jobs are not as lucrative any more, presumably.

Please tell me what the healthiest way to increase wages is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 24, 2022, 03:12:45 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 24, 2022, 03:00:15 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 24, 2022, 02:50:42 AM
Which will take the better part of a decade to see results.
And what about the jobs they would otherwise be doing?
All you're doing is shuttling water from one leaky bucket to another.

It hardly takes 10 years to train an electrician.

The other jobs are not as lucrative any more, presumably.

Please tell me what the healthiest way to increase wages is.

At a quick Google it takes 3 years. Plus you have to factor in a while for mentality to shift enough that a significantly higher number of people than usual do this. I do think you're looking at a good 5 or 6 minimum.
And that's assuming an OK situation of a shortage in one job being fixed by wage increases and associated good advertising of those wages. Not a situation where there's a shortage of labour across the board.

The healthiest way to increase wages is just to increase wages when times are good and there's nothing fucking with the economy.

The thing is with immigrants are holding wages down idea is its not just theoretical, we have an actual practical example of where a declining workforce gets us in the shape of Japan.... 30 years of wage stagnation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Gups on January 24, 2022, 05:08:43 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 24, 2022, 02:50:42 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 24, 2022, 02:47:36 AM
Why is that not a healthy way to increase wages?  I think it's a the healthiest.  The rising price sends a signal to everyone else that this is a lucrative field to enter.
Which will take the better part of a decade to see results.
And what about the jobs they would otherwise be doing?
All you're doing is shuttling water from one leaky bucket to another.

Not really. You might get part timers shifting to full time, full timers doing some overtime, older workers delaying retirement, more apprentices helping and improving productivity of those trained.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 24, 2022, 05:33:34 AM
Quote from: Gups on January 24, 2022, 05:08:43 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 24, 2022, 02:50:42 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 24, 2022, 02:47:36 AM
Why is that not a healthy way to increase wages?  I think it's a the healthiest.  The rising price sends a signal to everyone else that this is a lucrative field to enter.
Which will take the better part of a decade to see results.
And what about the jobs they would otherwise be doing?
All you're doing is shuttling water from one leaky bucket to another.

Not really. You might get part timers shifting to full time, full timers doing some overtime, older workers delaying retirement, more apprentices helping and improving productivity of those trained.
This can fill small short term holes but its still a very finite number you're pulling from.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on January 24, 2022, 06:36:00 AM
So, increasing wages is not the way to do it, rather one should increase wages at a better time?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 24, 2022, 06:42:35 AM
No, lower benefits to incentivize the degenerate freeloaders to get off their asses and be GRATEFUL for the opportunity to add to corporate bottom lines.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 24, 2022, 10:54:56 AM
Quote from: Threviel on January 24, 2022, 06:36:00 AM
So, increasing wages is not the way to do it, rather one should increase wages at a better time?
Increasing wages is a good thing. Companies should do it when times are good. Increasing wages is a sign of a healthy sector.
It's not a solution when everyone is doing it during a period of temporary international economic meltdown. Its merely a minimum, try and keep people's heads marginally above water, action.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on January 24, 2022, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2022, 06:42:35 AM
No, lower benefits to incentivize the degenerate freeloaders to get off their asses and be GRATEFUL for the opportunity to add to corporate bottom lines.

I doubt CEOs will agree to slash their own salaries, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 24, 2022, 12:32:58 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 24, 2022, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2022, 06:42:35 AM
No, lower benefits to incentivize the degenerate freeloaders to get off their asses and be GRATEFUL for the opportunity to add to corporate bottom lines.

I doubt CEOs will agree to slash their own salaries, though.

:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 24, 2022, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 24, 2022, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2022, 06:42:35 AM
No, lower benefits to incentivize the degenerate freeloaders to get off their asses and be GRATEFUL for the opportunity to add to corporate bottom lines.

I doubt CEOs will agree to slash their own salaries, though.

^_^
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 24, 2022, 01:36:57 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2022, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on January 24, 2022, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2022, 06:42:35 AM
No, lower benefits to incentivize the degenerate freeloaders to get off their asses and be GRATEFUL for the opportunity to add to corporate bottom lines.

I doubt CEOs will agree to slash their own salaries, though.

^_^

As long as they get "compensated" in stock options, who knows.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 26, 2022, 03:42:23 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/272269478_4560565937325257_3065203584055411600_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=4tTm_jWlG8cAX_qJ0Y4&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8UoSqGkk26EYCQH7TTxiiPmTgcCrcNIgASNYjJOj6-jA&oe=61F652D9)



(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s720x720/272733199_260246032888239_6534770939097786302_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=fpoeO59hEhEAX_F-_PY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9Gm1W-RK6ISpIyCILMEtUK8hweEfY0SOQ8AHtbAYV9yQ&oe=61F778C0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 27, 2022, 12:19:39 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/272462565_4044185499017466_1905436074352899375_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=IXKlTjdccTcAX9bO2H5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8nRhSN-YHSaU0cUN6XLKiU0tBQS56sDsBwjrKKbt66FA&oe=61F705EA)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Source?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 27, 2022, 12:27:55 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Source?

"MentallyEmancipated", I guess.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 12:29:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 27, 2022, 12:27:55 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Source?

"MentallyEmancipated", I guess.

What does The Economist say?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 27, 2022, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 12:29:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 27, 2022, 12:27:55 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Source?

"MentallyEmancipated", I guess.

What does The Economist say?

https://youtu.be/i6EX2v0ov9M
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 27, 2022, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 12:29:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 27, 2022, 12:27:55 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Source?

"MentallyEmancipated", I guess.

What does The Economist say?

https://youtu.be/i6EX2v0ov9M

OK it seems to be legit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 27, 2022, 12:55:06 PM
Biden? Wut? I thought it was Ukraine he worked for? :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on January 27, 2022, 12:55:41 PM
Last couple of them have been veering towards the nasty side, it seems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 27, 2022, 03:39:09 PM
What did Lebron do to piss off the right wing nutters?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 27, 2022, 03:39:09 PM
What did Lebron do to piss off the right wing nutters?

Hint: you can see it in the pic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 27, 2022, 03:42:52 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 27, 2022, 03:39:09 PM
What did Lebron do to piss off the right wing nutters?

Hint: you can see it in the pic.

Ah, too obvious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 27, 2022, 03:50:24 PM
I guess right-wingers really love Cleveland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on January 27, 2022, 05:51:30 PM
regarding LeBron James, China and Hong Kong:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/oct/15/hong-kong-protestors-burn-lebron-james-jerseys-nba
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 27, 2022, 09:46:21 PM
Yeah that was bad look for LeBron. I don't get the others.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2022, 10:01:01 PM
Isn't Lebron on record as being vaccinated?  I figured it had to do with vaccinations and masks making you a slave of the Chinese.

Who's the dude at  8:30?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 28, 2022, 12:32:38 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx54pdcd/image.png)

And this is how some GOP voters see the Ukraine crisis - Biden protecting "his friends in the Ukraine".

Though I guess it's progress that she says the American people voted in Biden as president. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 28, 2022, 12:48:18 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 26, 2022, 03:42:23 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s720x720/272733199_260246032888239_6534770939097786302_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=fpoeO59hEhEAX_F-_PY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9Gm1W-RK6ISpIyCILMEtUK8hweEfY0SOQ8AHtbAYV9yQ&oe=61F778C0)

Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 28, 2022, 12:59:35 AM
And yet they whine about temp bans on Facebook. (No, I don't report them, but I guess someone on their friends list does :P )
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 28, 2022, 01:03:47 AM
Yeah, some of the stuff on the last page went from stupid to vile.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 28, 2022, 01:43:42 AM
It's also interesting, my eldest sister is pro-gay rights. Her two oldest sons are gay. Her youngest is trans-male, but my sister keeps referring to her daughter and posting anti-trans content. Said kid has taken himself completely off Facebook; first during the BLM protests when he said there's way too many racists in his feed, and recently he posted that he's fine but that he's keeping off FB because of the dead-naming and non-acceptance from friends and family. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on January 28, 2022, 06:22:13 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 27, 2022, 10:01:01 PM
Isn't Lebron on record as being vaccinated?  I figured it had to do with vaccinations and masks making you a slave of the Chinese.

No, is what Zoupa linked. The NBA has been accused by conservatives for a couple of years already of being in thrall to Chinese economic interests. When during the HK protests then Houston Rockets' GM Daryl Morey expressed support to the protesters China threw a massive hissy fit, banning all Rockets merchandising from being sold in China, as well as removing their games from broadcasts, and it was feared that it'd reach a point in which China would ban all NBA operations in the country, which is of course an extremely lucrative market for them. The NBA then saved face with China and that put them under fire in the US. LeBron supported the league's position and since than has been periodically excoriated because of that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on January 28, 2022, 05:02:04 PM
(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/50591993_404377116798478_1525707095188439040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=bxzZoUCV-e8AX-aTvfj&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=00_AT8iZGCLnjqJEJp4UvP3Mclw8Uj7mLXobPEcRbw899ZXOA&oe=62185F04)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 28, 2022, 09:50:37 PM
True, GOP policies did.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 29, 2022, 01:28:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/272807001_10224213334578683_8288131856408670779_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xfQqHyRO0ZgAX8f1fKN&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-Jjs6LvNaWbrOQ4Q2ho1a7zMbDa6vMVacg66bndWsy9Q&oe=61F9B5F3)

Also, my brother in law:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CFFKbjvm/image.png)

:tinfoil:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 29, 2022, 07:20:00 AM
This fetish for being a victim of persecution is so tiring. Especially since it is usually combined with constant masturbating over how clever and strong they are for recgonizing it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 31, 2022, 12:26:44 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/92575951_3439895736027059_4780226140054749184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_ZTrUgT-6AsAX8VDoRW&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8oWSr2JeC6XOak_noha-gI-1MPJvr03ClphNG2u4TbDQ&oe=621D84EB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3JyS9jmP/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 01, 2022, 01:21:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/120335828_2794256960809029_6754212317615293295_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=XazXi5sEXssAX9wv0GY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8tcSWC8VHlola2uKGkKyJia-3FAUWQZlzcHxJEjPO2Yw&oe=621C7051)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 01, 2022, 08:41:19 AM
Thanks Syt, sterling work as ever from you.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 01, 2022, 08:48:47 AM
Just missing a jab at immigrants to get it all in
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 01, 2022, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 29, 2022, 01:28:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/272807001_10224213334578683_8288131856408670779_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xfQqHyRO0ZgAX8f1fKN&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-Jjs6LvNaWbrOQ4Q2ho1a7zMbDa6vMVacg66bndWsy9Q&oe=61F9B5F3)

I wonder whether the people sending/distributing this have ever sent or received checks in the mail?

Ballots are actually easier to track, at least in the absence of paying the post office for premium services.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2022, 01:10:08 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/272321531_4544726002303800_1417193605341785861_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Feb1nWFLg8IAX9aF_U4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-I24QKZtyY-8fvIPn848lEXXl2kcalres85hNmVzFlzw&oe=6200195D)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 03, 2022, 01:14:32 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 03, 2022, 01:18:38 PM
Vital!  Viagra!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 05, 2022, 03:01:16 AM
Not sure if we had this one before?

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/272947488_1632829210407448_5347954230948062036_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=WXsiD6O7zs0AX-tPo3j&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9q-aAZP7D5zx4CjUYBjWvK3epdBCriG6x6MQQzBjIa7Q&oe=6203F9C7)

At any rate: seems academia ruined everything. Or maybe just roads. Or maybe engineers do what they can with the budgets they're given. Who can say in this crazy, mad world?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 05, 2022, 07:25:11 AM
As if Rome didn't have engineers...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 05, 2022, 08:25:46 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 05, 2022, 07:25:11 AM
As if Rome didn't have engineers...

But they didn't have a DEGREE!  :rolleyes: :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on February 05, 2022, 08:42:27 AM
Did Roman chariots travel at 60+ mph and weigh multiple tons?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 05, 2022, 10:38:38 AM
I think we had that one before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 05, 2022, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on February 05, 2022, 08:42:27 AM
Did Roman chariots travel at 60+ mph and weigh multiple tons?

Something something your mom something sale at Penney's.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on February 05, 2022, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 05, 2022, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on February 05, 2022, 08:42:27 AM
Did Roman chariots travel at 60+ mph and weigh multiple tons?

Something something your mom something sale at Penney's.

:cry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2022, 11:56:58 AM
Most Roman roads are in pretty poor shape.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on February 05, 2022, 12:44:46 PM
I'm guessing survivorship bias is not something most Facebook meme creators are aware of.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 05, 2022, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on February 05, 2022, 12:44:46 PM
I'm guessing survivorship bias is not something most Facebook meme creators are aware of.

I think Tyr's family would think you are talking about the TV show.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 12:54:51 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on February 05, 2022, 08:42:27 AM
Did Roman chariots travel at 60+ mph and weigh multiple tons?
No, chariots were drawn by horses, so they couldn't reach anywhere near 60 mph, even at peak speed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 05, 2022, 02:03:49 PM
Yeah, that one is from several years ago. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 02:13:26 PM
Serious question, what is the real story with the Roman roads, from the engineering economics point of view.  Is it:

1)  The roads were usually not that good, it's just that the few unusually well-engineered roads in good climate survived, so some assume that all roads were built that well.
2)  The roads really were that good, but vastly over-engineered from the economic point of view.  The Romans would've been economically better off building lower quality roads at much lower price, had they possessed the technology to do so.  In civil engineering, the trick is usually not to make something last, but to make something last for the acceptable price.
3)  The roads weren't really that good given how they were used.  Obviously it's much more difficult to make the roads last if they're used by trucks rather than horses.  We could make the roads even better much more cheaply if all we need them for is foot and horse traffic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2022, 02:24:44 PM
You left off salt.  Salting roads kills them.  If I'm not mistaken, potholes are pretty much unknown in warmer places.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 05, 2022, 02:26:25 PM
The engineer complaint was very common from my father and my father's coworkers as well. It echoed the sense that experience on the factory floor was increasingly dismissed, in favor of young people who would never condescend to rub elbows with the unwashed masses.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on February 05, 2022, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 02:13:26 PM
Serious question, what is the real story with the Roman roads, from the engineering economics point of view.  Is it:

1)  The roads were usually not that good, it's just that the few unusually well-engineered roads in good climate survived, so some assume that all roads were built that well.
2)  The roads really were that good, but vastly over-engineered from the economic point of view.  The Romans would've been economically better off building lower quality roads at much lower price, had they possessed the technology to do so.  In civil engineering, the trick is usually not to make something last, but to make something last for the acceptable price.
3)  The roads weren't really that good given how they were used.  Obviously it's much more difficult to make the roads last if they're used by trucks rather than horses.  We could make the roads even better much more cheaply if all we need them for is foot and horse traffic.

I'm no expert, but I'd guess there were different types of roads, just like we have now.

The ones that survive in good condition to this day are those that were deemed important enough to go the extra mile (hah).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 05, 2022, 02:47:14 PM
Having worked with engineers I agree many are stupid. But they're not stupid because they're engineers, they just happen to be stupid AND engineers :D. Some of stories are funny in retrospect like a 1000 lb overengineered ladder
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on February 05, 2022, 02:51:07 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 05, 2022, 02:26:25 PM
The engineer complaint was very common from my father and my father's coworkers as well. It echoed the sense that experience on the factory floor was increasingly dismissed, in favor of young people who would never condescend to rub elbows with the unwashed masses.

I've seen this play out a lot. Both as an automation and later a manufacturing engineer. And from both sides.

My primary tool is my laptop, but I carry spanners, screwdrivers or at least feeler gauges. And, since I'm around plenty of dirt, grease and oil I dress closer to a tech than an office worker (usually work pants or jeans and a company polo/t-shirt).

However I'm clearly too clean to be a maintenance tech, which means I'm too "elitist" for many in the shop floor.
And at the same time, since I'm not wearing expensive shirts and such, I also get looked down upon by those whose job basically revolves around Powerpoint presentations, Excel sheets and days full of non-stop meetings. In their minds they are the "real engineers".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 05, 2022, 02:54:35 PM
There are a bunch of different factors.

Labour for the Romans was relatively cheap (they could use slaves). The materials used, such as stone flags, were very durable. The purpose of the roads was primarily military - to be able to march troops to any part of the empire quickly. So a massive investment in very durable major roads made sense. The wear on such roads tended to be less than on modern roads - no gigantic trucks - so the surface wasn't as worn. The Romans were not using high speed vehicles, so facing the roads with stone flags was okay for them. They needed a network of major roads to move troops about, and the side-roads didn't have to be as durable (and have not lasted).

In modern times, we want *lots* of roads capable of handling comparatively gigantic vehicles going at great speed, and build quickly and as cheaply as possible, where labour costs are high. The result is highways and byways that are not as durable, and require more maintenance. We could not afford to build every road to last forever, nor is it particularly desirable to do so.

Every engineering choice is a trade off of more or less desirable features. Ours is better suited to our particular needs. Part of the trade-off for smooth and comparatively cheap ashphalt road facing is that it must be maintained.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 05, 2022, 03:02:24 PM
How many roman roads have actually survived?
I know the routes of many roman roads form the core of major roads around the former parts of the empire today....but they've largely been built and rebuilt over the centuries to be unrecognisable.

There are bits of roman road in more out of the way places that are still recognisable I know. But is this so much?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on February 05, 2022, 03:11:35 PM
Quite a few. And I'd wager most of those that disappeared did so because they were a convenient source of worked stone for the next 2 millennia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 05, 2022, 03:15:22 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 02:13:26 PM
Serious question, what is the real story with the Roman roads, from the engineering economics point of view.  Is it:

1)  The roads were usually not that good, it's just that the few unusually well-engineered roads in good climate survived, so some assume that all roads were built that well.
2)  The roads really were that good, but vastly over-engineered from the economic point of view.  The Romans would've been economically better off building lower quality roads at much lower price, had they possessed the technology to do so.  In civil engineering, the trick is usually not to make something last, but to make something last for the acceptable price.
3)  The roads weren't really that good given how they were used.  Obviously it's much more difficult to make the roads last if they're used by trucks rather than horses.  We could make the roads even better much more cheaply if all we need them for is foot and horse traffic.

My impression is that they were good roads engineered to a rational degree.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 05, 2022, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 05, 2022, 02:54:35 PM
There are a bunch of different factors.

Labour for the Romans was relatively cheap (they could use slaves). The materials used, such as stone flags, were very durable. The purpose of the roads was primarily military - to be able to march troops to any part of the empire quickly. So a massive investment in very durable major roads made sense. The wear on such roads tended to be less than on modern roads - no gigantic trucks - so the surface wasn't as worn. The Romans were not using high speed vehicles, so facing the roads with stone flags was okay for them. They needed a network of major roads to move troops about, and the side-roads didn't have to be as durable (and have not lasted).

In modern times, we want *lots* of roads capable of handling comparatively gigantic vehicles going at great speed, and build quickly and as cheaply as possible, where labour costs are high. The result is highways and byways that are not as durable, and require more maintenance. We could not afford to build every road to last forever, nor is it particularly desirable to do so.

Every engineering choice is a trade off of more or less desirable features. Ours is better suited to our particular needs. Part of the trade-off for smooth and comparatively cheap ashphalt road facing is that it must be maintained.

So... bring back slave labour? :unsure: :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 05, 2022, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: HVC on February 05, 2022, 03:24:32 PM

So... bring back slave labour? :unsure: :P

Clearly that is better than having people with fancy degrees telling everyone what to do. Keep things simple, like in the good old days ...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 05, 2022, 03:34:13 PM
I mean an engineering degree is just a bachelor's degree. Hardly some fancy elitist thing. Are they demanding everything be designed intuitively by high school dropouts?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 05, 2022, 03:41:12 PM
Quote from: HVC on February 05, 2022, 03:24:32 PMSo... bring back slave labour? :unsure: :P

The U.S. has a huge prison population that provides cheap labor in various areas. Might as well shift them towards building roads. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 05, 2022, 03:44:15 PM
Weren't roads often built by the legions?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 05, 2022, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 05, 2022, 03:44:15 PM
Weren't roads often built by the legions?

Yes. Depends on the time period in which they were built. Many of the great highways were first built with labour from the legions, under the republic; though in the imperial period, slaves were more commonly used. Also varied from place to place.

Given that the roads were originally mainly for military use, using the legions to build them made sense; though later, slaves owned by what amounted to public/private contractors were more common, or so I've read.

Either way - labour was comparatively cheap.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 05, 2022, 03:55:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2022, 03:34:13 PM
I mean an engineering degree is just a bachelor's degree. Hardly some fancy elitist thing. Are they demanding everything be designed intuitively by high school dropouts?

If it was good enough for the Khmer Rouge, it's good enough for us! 😀
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 05, 2022, 05:44:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2022, 03:34:13 PM
I mean an engineering degree is just a bachelor's degree. Hardly some fancy elitist thing. Are they demanding everything be designed intuitively by high school dropouts?

I think you underestimate how fancy, and elite, a university diploma can be to someone who never completed high school. What many workers often ask is that their experience is considered, rather than being brushed aside, or belittled because of their status as "high school dropout". 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 09:43:15 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2022, 02:24:44 PM
You left off salt.  Salting roads kills them.  If I'm not mistaken, potholes are pretty much unknown in warmer places.
I would think that it has less to do with salt than it does with water under the road expanding as it freezes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 05, 2022, 09:52:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2022, 02:24:44 PM
You left off salt.  Salting roads kills them.  If I'm not mistaken, potholes are pretty much unknown in warmer places.

A nearly perfect example of causation versus correlation.

Ice is what causes potholes, not salt, as I understand it.

Of course, places with lots of snow and ice also have lots of salt to combat said ice...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2022, 09:58:31 PM
I thought salt caused cracks to form in the asphalt, into which water would move, freeze, and expand, causing the crack to turn into a pothole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 05, 2022, 05:44:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2022, 03:34:13 PM
I mean an engineering degree is just a bachelor's degree. Hardly some fancy elitist thing. Are they demanding everything be designed intuitively by high school dropouts?

I think you underestimate how fancy, and elite, a university diploma can be to someone who never completed high school. What many workers often ask is that their experience is considered, rather than being brushed aside, or belittled because of their status as "high school dropout".
To be devil's advocate, this kind of conflict usually goes both ways, in many different fields, where one specialty plays the role of an engineer, and another specialty plays the role of a mechanic.  To the mechanics, it may seem like engineers belittle their valuable know-how.  To the engineers, it may seem like mechanics have put too much stock in the fact that they did things in a stupid way for a very long time. 

In the big picture, experience is a kludge to plug for imperfect knowledge;  with perfect knowledge and understanding, you would get things right on the money the very first day.  This is why I think that in the long run, then "engineers" would have the better of the argument.  Knowledge has no limit, whereas experience does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 10:06:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2022, 09:58:31 PM
I thought salt caused cracks to form in the asphalt, into which water would move, freeze, and expand, causing the crack to turn into a pothole.
I googled it, and actually everyone is right, although your reasoning is not.  It's not that salt corrodes the asphalt, but rather salt lowers the freezing point of water and increases the number of freeze and thaw cycles, which is what causes expansion and contraction that cracks the asphalt.  Water is what causes potholes, but salted water is more effective at it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 05, 2022, 10:17:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 09:59:16 PM
To be devil's advocate, this kind of conflict usually goes both ways,

Sure. In an actual workplace where perfect knowledge remains a platonic ideal, and where imperfect engineers and workers coexist, it may be worth it to treat people with respect, dignity and humility.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 05, 2022, 10:22:12 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 10:06:06 PM
I googled it, and actually everyone is right, although your reasoning is not.  It's not that salt corrodes the asphalt, but rather salt lowers the freezing point of water and increases the number of freeze and thaw cycles, which is what causes expansion and contraction that cracks the asphalt.  Water is what causes potholes, but salted water is more effective at it.

asoka
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 11:10:57 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 05, 2022, 10:17:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 05, 2022, 09:59:16 PM
To be devil's advocate, this kind of conflict usually goes both ways,

Sure. In an actual workplace where perfect knowledge remains a platonic ideal, and where imperfect engineers and workers coexist, it may be worth it to treat people with respect, dignity and humility.
I would say that even in a workplace with perfect engineers and workers, you should treat people with respect, dignity, and humility.  I generally wouldn't say such a thing, though, not because it's not true, but because it's just a platitude.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on February 06, 2022, 12:53:36 AM
Considering that there exists a grievance that engineers tend to look down upon workers, which is what I was commenting on, it may be a platitude that bears repeating. I'm sure there exists a theoretical workplace where your own remark about perfect knowledge is of tremendous use, and isn't just some pedantic self-jerk. 

Now that this has been said, and since I am increasingly finding you quite condescending and disagreeable, I'll wish you good life, and will be ignoring you from now on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 06, 2022, 12:58:10 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/273458793_10224261715028164_2677544173444210242_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=9nDgtpC4B_8AX9DVCAs&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_u0JWbgLPDZVdEtQxksKn6qCZtUEEp8k4jU5ohbtf3KA&oe=6203CFB4)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 06, 2022, 01:53:09 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 06, 2022, 12:53:36 AM
Considering that there exists a grievance that engineers tend to look down upon workers, which is what I was commenting on, it may be a platitude that bears repeating. I'm sure there exists a theoretical workplace where your own remark about perfect knowledge is of tremendous use, and isn't just some pedantic self-jerk. 
I think it actually has a lot of use in understanding the changing labor dynamics, and how they're going to continue to change.  The Internet in particular has shifted the balance from know-how to knowledge. 

It used to be that the argument of the type "Joe has been selling Buicks for 40 years, he knows what engine options they come with better than anyone" would carry a lot of weight.  Obviously Joe could be going senile after his 40 years of selling Buicks, but absent a better source his know-how from work experience had some value. 

Now any 10-year old kid can just google everything there is to know about Buicks, and if google disagrees with Joe, it's probably because Joe got it wrong.  The value of the one asset that "unskilled labor" could accumulate with experience in the past has been greatly eroded by Internet, where a single YouTube video can cancel out the know-how from experience of millions of people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 06, 2022, 02:57:52 AM
In the olden days when engineers wore suits and workers overalls, engineers had fancy offices in a separate building from the facility, and everyone wasn't on a first name basis, then the engineer/worker conflict was more real. These days not so much.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 06, 2022, 07:52:36 AM
Going back to the topic of ancient infrastructure, an argument I heard on a podcast (talking mostly about buildings, rather than roads or other structures) is that back then stuff would be over-designed and over-engineered as much as possible in order to make sure that it'd stand the test of time, as architects and engineers would have no way to test and calculate the stress that their works would have to withstand so they'd make them as strong as possible no matter what, even more when we're dealing with high importance projects that might have gone down already (for instance, we marvel at the current Pantheon in Rome, but the building that has survived is actually the third one, as the first two burned down).

This is coupled by survivor bias, as the buildings we can currently see are the ones that, one way or the other, made it to the present day. We don't see as much the crappy dwelings of the urban underclass that were not built with as much care, effort and resources as the big projects.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 06, 2022, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 06, 2022, 12:53:36 AM
Considering that there exists a grievance that engineers tend to look down upon workers, which is what I was commenting on, it may be a platitude that bears repeating. I'm sure there exists a theoretical workplace where your own remark about perfect knowledge is of tremendous use, and isn't just some pedantic self-jerk. 

Not just engineer types.  A main message I give to our new lawyers is to listen to their legal assistants and firm staff - they will teach you how to manage your practice and it is best to work in collaboration with them.  Those who embrace that message tend to work out very well.  Those who don't tend leave the firm fairly quickly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 06, 2022, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 06, 2022, 07:52:36 AM
Going back to the topic of ancient infrastructure, an argument I heard on a podcast (talking mostly about buildings, rather than roads or other structures) is that back then stuff would be over-designed and over-engineered as much as possible in order to make sure that it'd stand the test of time, as architects and engineers would have no way to test and calculate the stress that their works would have to withstand so they'd make them as strong as possible no matter what, even more when we're dealing with high importance projects that might have gone down already (for instance, we marvel at the current Pantheon in Rome, but the building that has survived is actually the third one, as the first two burned down).

This is coupled by survivor bias, as the buildings we can currently see are the ones that, one way or the other, made it to the present day. We don't see as much the crappy dwelings of the urban underclass that were not built with as much care, effort and resources as the big projects.

It's a fair point - also, major buildings and infrastructure projects in Rome in particular were generally explicitly seen as creating a legacy for the Roman who put up or had raised the cash, or under whose leadership the thing was built: for roads, the "Appian Way", for example, after Appius Claudius Caecus. They were intended as part of someone's personal political legacy, so that person had a motive to ensure the thing would be around forever, even if it made more sense from a purely utilitarian point of view that it be less durable.   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 06, 2022, 01:57:10 PM
What would a more rational level of engineering for a Roman road look like?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2022, 02:35:50 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 05, 2022, 05:44:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2022, 03:34:13 PM
I mean an engineering degree is just a bachelor's degree. Hardly some fancy elitist thing. Are they demanding everything be designed intuitively by high school dropouts?

I think you underestimate how fancy, and elite, a university diploma can be to someone who never completed high school. What many workers often ask is that their experience is considered, rather than being brushed aside, or belittled because of their status as "high school dropout". 

Oh was that posted by a worker on road construction projects? My apologies. I thought that was just another one of Syt's asshole relatives declaring their superiority to everybody on the entire planet who is not in their little clique who have no fucking idea what they are talking about.

I would have to have some serious brain damage to belittle electricians and line workers and other show work in my field on the lower levels, that is some serious work and I aspired to be them for many years before realizing I was going to have to spend many years suffering trying to get a very difficult degree while working full time and caring for small children. I probably destroyed my health and shortened my life about ten years in the effort just because I so passionately wanted to contribute in this field. I wish I could have been one of those workers it just wasn't my skill set. But likewise I don't really want to see myself and my efforts belittled either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 06, 2022, 07:35:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 06, 2022, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 06, 2022, 07:52:36 AM
Going back to the topic of ancient infrastructure, an argument I heard on a podcast (talking mostly about buildings, rather than roads or other structures) is that back then stuff would be over-designed and over-engineered as much as possible in order to make sure that it'd stand the test of time, as architects and engineers would have no way to test and calculate the stress that their works would have to withstand so they'd make them as strong as possible no matter what, even more when we're dealing with high importance projects that might have gone down already (for instance, we marvel at the current Pantheon in Rome, but the building that has survived is actually the third one, as the first two burned down).

This is coupled by survivor bias, as the buildings we can currently see are the ones that, one way or the other, made it to the present day. We don't see as much the crappy dwelings of the urban underclass that were not built with as much care, effort and resources as the big projects.

It's a fair point - also, major buildings and infrastructure projects in Rome in particular were generally explicitly seen as creating a legacy for the Roman who put up or had raised the cash, or under whose leadership the thing was built: for roads, the "Appian Way", for example, after Appius Claudius Caecus. They were intended as part of someone's personal political legacy, so that person had a motive to ensure the thing would be around forever, even if it made more sense from a purely utilitarian point of view that it be less durable.


Well, the Appian way has been restored and maintained since the 19th century.  That might have helped its appearance.  Roads that haven't been restored don't look as nice.

This road was recently excavated in Israel.  It's not nearly as impressive.

(https://i.imgur.com/uU8RfBR.jpg)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 06, 2022, 08:35:03 PM
Fair enough. Lots of famous bits of Roman infrastructure have been repeatedly restored over the centuries. Though others have been looted for building materials. Still, many have had remarkable longevity.

One other reason Roman stuff often lasted so long is that the Romans used a very durable type of concrete, made with volcanic ash, that resists cracking and spreading - used for example in the dome of the Pantheon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2022, 08:40:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 06, 2022, 08:35:03 PM
Fair enough. Lots of famous bits of Roman infrastructure have been repeatedly restored over the centuries. Though others have been looted for building materials. Still, many have had remarkable longevity.

One other reason Roman stuff often lasted so long is that the Romans used a very durable type of concrete, made with volcanic ash, that resists cracking and spreading - used for example in the dome of the Pantheon.

Was that only used for special projects? Or is volcanic ash a readily available item?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on February 06, 2022, 09:03:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2022, 08:40:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 06, 2022, 08:35:03 PM
Fair enough. Lots of famous bits of Roman infrastructure have been repeatedly restored over the centuries. Though others have been looted for building materials. Still, many have had remarkable longevity.

One other reason Roman stuff often lasted so long is that the Romans used a very durable type of concrete, made with volcanic ash, that resists cracking and spreading - used for example in the dome of the Pantheon.

Was that only used for special projects? Or is volcanic ash a readily available item?

Apparently it was in 'widespread' use.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_concrete

Not only in Rome or Italy itself - one of the biggest uses was in the harbour of Ceaserea in what is now Israel. Among other things, this type of concrete can set underwater.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 06, 2022, 09:16:33 PM
There's a bridge in my village back in France that saw over 2000 years of uninterrupted use, including for cars and trucks. Built in 3 BC, bypassed in 2005. Now it's only accessible for pedestrians and cyclists.

Not adding anything to the road discussion I know, but I just found it cool.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 06, 2022, 09:25:17 PM
Link to it? That is pretty cool.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 06, 2022, 10:55:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2022, 08:40:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 06, 2022, 08:35:03 PM
Fair enough. Lots of famous bits of Roman infrastructure have been repeatedly restored over the centuries. Though others have been looted for building materials. Still, many have had remarkable longevity.

One other reason Roman stuff often lasted so long is that the Romans used a very durable type of concrete, made with volcanic ash, that resists cracking and spreading - used for example in the dome of the Pantheon.

Was that only used for special projects? Or is volcanic ash a readily available item?


It was very available.  The Romans had cities literally drowning in volcanic ash.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 06, 2022, 11:02:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 06, 2022, 10:55:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2022, 08:40:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 06, 2022, 08:35:03 PM
Fair enough. Lots of famous bits of Roman infrastructure have been repeatedly restored over the centuries. Though others have been looted for building materials. Still, many have had remarkable longevity.

One other reason Roman stuff often lasted so long is that the Romans used a very durable type of concrete, made with volcanic ash, that resists cracking and spreading - used for example in the dome of the Pantheon.

Was that only used for special projects? Or is volcanic ash a readily available item?

It was very available.  The Romans had cities literally drowning in volcanic ash.
:pinch: Too soon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 07, 2022, 03:31:58 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 06, 2022, 01:57:10 PM
What would a more rational level of engineering for a Roman road look like?

To elaborate: the Romans needed all-weather roads that weren't damaged by the passage of a multi-legion army. For that you need a solid foundation, good drainage, and, given the technology of the time, a paved stone surface. The roads served a number of not unimportant secondary functions as well (civilian traffic, Roman prestige...), which the requirements of the primary function made them pretty good at. My impression is that Roman roads weren't over-engineered.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 07, 2022, 07:52:48 AM
From Twitter, posted ironically:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FK8Z_y9aQAEyjMc?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 07, 2022, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on February 05, 2022, 08:42:27 AM
Did Roman chariots travel at 60+ mph and weigh multiple tons?
they had no winters where the road lasted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 07, 2022, 02:52:47 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/273526113_10224270060276790_502578024445961116_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1F57GGRhF0YAX-4qmCk&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-b2Y2peYnNa7WIDNs2VWYfEh96aXAUon0t3HbG9EEUWA&oe=6207647B)

QuoteOn November 7, 1983, the Senate adjourned at 7:02 p.m. A crowded reception, held near the Senate Chamber, broke up two hours later. At 10:58 p.m., an explosion tore through the second floor of the Capitol's north wing; the adjacent halls were virtually deserted.[2]

Minutes before the blast, a caller claiming to represent the "Armed Resistance Unit" warned the Capitol switchboard that a bomb had been placed near the Chamber in retaliation for recent U.S. military involvement in Grenada[2] and Lebanon, in which the U.S. had placed Marines.[3] The "Armed Resistance Unit" also plotted to murder Henry Kissinger.[4]

The force of the device, hidden under a bench at the eastern end of the corridor outside the Chamber, blew off the door to the office of Democratic Leader Robert C. Byrd. Senator Byrd was an active supporter of involvement in Grenada, and had recently made attempts to garner support for retaliating against recent attacks against U.S. Marines stationed in Lebanon. His recent actions may have drawn attention from the terrorist group, and led to his targeting. Furthermore, the blast also punched a hole in a wall partition, sending a shower of pulverized brick, plaster, and glass into the Republican cloakroom. The explosion caused no structural damage to the Capitol. The force shattered mirrors, chandeliers, and furniture. Officials calculated damages of $250,000 (equivalent to $650,000 in 2020).[2]

A portrait of Daniel Webster which was located near the concealed bomb, received most of the force of the blast. The image of Webster's face was damaged, and canvas shards of it were strewn across the floor. Members of the Senate recovered fragments of the painting from debris-filled trash bins. A conservator worked for months to restore the painting to a semblance of the original.

The commutation of the sentence by Clinton seems to be accurate at least. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 07, 2022, 03:03:16 PM
40-60 year sentences for everyone involved in the January 6 attack seems reasonable to me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 07, 2022, 03:04:15 PM
US history fail, there have been a bunch of domestic terrorism attacks against the Capitol before the 1983 one. Or do Puerto Rican nationalists not count as domestic?

Incidentally, it also admits that Capitol attackers from January the 6th were terrorists.  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 07, 2022, 08:53:43 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 07, 2022, 03:04:15 PM
Or do Puerto Rican nationalists not count as domestic?
I don't think Republicans view them as Americans.  Not fully American, at least. So, no, doesn't count.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 08, 2022, 04:10:31 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 07, 2022, 08:53:43 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 07, 2022, 03:04:15 PM
Or do Puerto Rican nationalists not count as domestic?
I don't think Republicans view them as Americans.  Not fully American, at least. So, no, doesn't count.

Well, in that case the same people responsible for the 1983 attack (Weather Underground) had already attacked the Capitol in 1971, so those should count. And there had been a previous bombing in 1915 as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 08, 2022, 04:15:03 AM
So there were those attacks. Any of them involve the capitol being stormed by the riled up supporters of a candidate that refused to acknowledge the results of the election?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 08, 2022, 04:20:24 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 08, 2022, 04:15:03 AM
So there were those attacks. Any of them involve the capitol being stormed by the riled up supporters of a candidate that refused to acknowledge the results of the election?

I already said that the meme implicitly accepted that the Capitol stormers were domestic terrorists.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 08, 2022, 04:25:41 AM
I know. ;) I was pointing out that previous attacks seem to have been from extremist loonies without direct support from a major political party. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 08, 2022, 12:51:26 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 08, 2022, 04:20:24 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 08, 2022, 04:15:03 AM
So there were those attacks. Any of them involve the capitol being stormed by the riled up supporters of a candidate that refused to acknowledge the results of the election?

I already said that the meme implicitly accepted that the Capitol stormers were domestic terrorists.  ;)

The Jan 6th insurrectionists were more than just domestic terrorists, though.  They were domestic terrorists whose intent was specifically to attack the constitution that the republican lawmakers had all taken a solemn oath to preserve, protect, and defend.

My Republican friend (and fellow navy vet) was pissed off that I pointed out how she could no longer vote Republican because that would violate her oath, but she really didn't have a lot to push back with.  This republican decision has really demoralized her.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on February 08, 2022, 12:56:14 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 08, 2022, 12:51:26 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 08, 2022, 04:20:24 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 08, 2022, 04:15:03 AM
So there were those attacks. Any of them involve the capitol being stormed by the riled up supporters of a candidate that refused to acknowledge the results of the election?

I already said that the meme implicitly accepted that the Capitol stormers were domestic terrorists.  ;)

The Jan 6th insurrectionists were more than just domestic terrorists, though.  They were domestic terrorists whose intent was specifically to attack the constitution that the republican lawmakers had all taken a solemn oath to preserve, protect, and defend.

My Republican friend (and fellow navy vet) was pissed off that I pointed out how she could no longer vote Republican because that would violate her oath, but she really didn't have a lot to push back with.  This republican decision has really demoralized her.
Not enough to stop most of them from continuing to be Loyal Party Members though. The $$ will continue to flow. The militarization of American politics will get worse because so many of these 'demoralized' types will refuse to believe that they can vote any other way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 11, 2022, 01:04:27 PM
From my niece's husband:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p552x414/273742850_3253964634821429_8812189414950661752_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DwqszmQykJcAX8qpHuB&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT85bQ9VstAboEekELKLtnS7T-Grgy5fsOrIOW1bA1TWlg&oe=620B9121)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 11, 2022, 03:32:20 PM
They forgot to mention why your relatives are dying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 11, 2022, 03:54:10 PM
Wasn't their dude President during almost all the US lockdowns? Well see about the inflation, but even so 6% is hardly record setting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on February 11, 2022, 05:00:11 PM
Took a look on who this guy is, and jeez...

QuoteKyle Kashuv (born May 20, 2001) is an American conservative activist. He survived the 2018 Stoneman Douglas High School shooting and subsequently advocated for gun rights, notably in opposition to his fellow survivors' March for Our Lives movement.

It takes being a special kind of asshole to become a gun rights activist after having survived a school shooting yourself.

Also, what's the line about banning *your* funerals?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 11, 2022, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 11, 2022, 05:00:11 PM
Also, what's the line about banning *your* funerals?

You are not allowed to die anymore.  Those bastards!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on February 11, 2022, 06:48:48 PM
Big deal, you're going to have other funerals in your life.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 11, 2022, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 11, 2022, 06:48:48 PM
Big deal, you're going to have other funerals in your life.

But, if you don't go to other peoples' funerals, they won't go to yours.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 11, 2022, 07:01:33 PM
Some people delayed funeral due to restrictions so everyone could be there but it was not like it was some sort of requirement. You could have a small funeral and broadcast it to others if you wanted. Of course if it truly is *your* funeral I don't know why you would care about it being delayed or which politician you blame for it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on February 11, 2022, 07:11:05 PM
Most people attend more funerals than they really need.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 16, 2022, 04:53:41 AM
"Meta, Metamates, Me"

New value statement for fbook employees with order of importance on how employees should place their own interests relative to company and colleagues.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 16, 2022, 04:56:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2022, 04:53:41 AM
"Meta, Metamates, Me"

New value statement for fbook employees with order of importance on how employees should place their own interests relative to company and colleagues.

I am starting to think Zuckerberg is cracking under the pressure of having taken over from Gates as Evil IT Guy in the eyes of the public. No I don't mean the "world destroyer evil rich guy" role which Gates holds (and fairly recently), but rather the old role he had around "Windows monopoly destroying freedom" nonsense from a while back.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 16, 2022, 05:01:23 AM
I did see someone comment that at least they are being open with employees that their first priority should be work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 16, 2022, 05:31:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2022, 05:01:23 AM
I did see someone comment that at least they are being open with employees that their first priority should be work.

I am really weary of all these company mission statements in general. Yes, focusing on making your customer happy is a good idea but because it is a smart business approach not because it is some higher effin' call in life. Everyone is at work to make a profit especially the bloody owners who created the company. Just cut the bull.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 16, 2022, 07:16:23 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 16, 2022, 04:56:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2022, 04:53:41 AM
"Meta, Metamates, Me"

New value statement for fbook employees with order of importance on how employees should place their own interests relative to company and colleagues.

I am starting to think Zuckerberg is cracking under the pressure of having taken over from Gates as Evil IT Guy in the eyes of the public. No I don't mean the "world destroyer evil rich guy" role which Gates holds (and fairly recently), but rather the old role he had around "Windows monopoly destroying freedom" nonsense from a while back.

That "Metamates" statement is just a restatement of the US Navy's "Ship, shipmates, self" philosophy.  It's not particularly evil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 16, 2022, 07:20:51 AM
I feel like their might be different incentives in the naval situation vs Meta.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on February 16, 2022, 07:23:34 AM
Indeed the military is "slightly" different than a private company. In the Navy it's people's life at stake. At "Meta" it's the profit margin. Both important, but not exactly to the same degree.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 16, 2022, 07:26:06 AM
I do wonder about Facebook.
It used to be one of the big names people aspired to work for. Considering how it's reputation has plumetted is it still managing to attract top people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on February 16, 2022, 09:14:45 AM
They give generous stock options. Yes, they still attract rtop people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 16, 2022, 09:30:07 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 16, 2022, 07:16:23 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 16, 2022, 04:56:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2022, 04:53:41 AM
"Meta, Metamates, Me"

New value statement for fbook employees with order of importance on how employees should place their own interests relative to company and colleagues.

I am starting to think Zuckerberg is cracking under the pressure of having taken over from Gates as Evil IT Guy in the eyes of the public. No I don't mean the "world destroyer evil rich guy" role which Gates holds (and fairly recently), but rather the old role he had around "Windows monopoly destroying freedom" nonsense from a while back.

That "Metamates" statement is just a restatement of the US Navy's "Ship, shipmates, self" philosophy.  It's not particularly evil.

Agreed, it would be odd for any organization to urge members to prioritize self-interest, unless they are Randians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 16, 2022, 10:16:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 16, 2022, 09:30:07 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 16, 2022, 07:16:23 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 16, 2022, 04:56:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2022, 04:53:41 AM
"Meta, Metamates, Me"

New value statement for fbook employees with order of importance on how employees should place their own interests relative to company and colleagues.

I am starting to think Zuckerberg is cracking under the pressure of having taken over from Gates as Evil IT Guy in the eyes of the public. No I don't mean the "world destroyer evil rich guy" role which Gates holds (and fairly recently), but rather the old role he had around "Windows monopoly destroying freedom" nonsense from a while back.

That "Metamates" statement is just a restatement of the US Navy's "Ship, shipmates, self" philosophy.  It's not particularly evil.

Agreed, it would be odd for any organization to urge members to prioritize self-interest, unless they are Randians.

On the other hand would probably be a shitty manager who explicitly told a direct report: I need you put the company's interests ahead of your own.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 16, 2022, 10:28:43 AM
First comes the Lord Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2022, 10:16:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 16, 2022, 09:30:07 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 16, 2022, 07:16:23 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 16, 2022, 04:56:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2022, 04:53:41 AM
"Meta, Metamates, Me"

New value statement for fbook employees with order of importance on how employees should place their own interests relative to company and colleagues.

I am starting to think Zuckerberg is cracking under the pressure of having taken over from Gates as Evil IT Guy in the eyes of the public. No I don't mean the "world destroyer evil rich guy" role which Gates holds (and fairly recently), but rather the old role he had around "Windows monopoly destroying freedom" nonsense from a while back.

That "Metamates" statement is just a restatement of the US Navy's "Ship, shipmates, self" philosophy.  It's not particularly evil.

Agreed, it would be odd for any organization to urge members to prioritize self-interest, unless they are Randians.

On the other hand would probably be a shitty manager who explicitly told a direct report: I need you put the company's interests ahead of your own.

Not sure where you are going with that.  All employees owe a duty to their employer to act in the employer's interests - with limited exceptions (basically health and safety and the actions must be lawful).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on February 16, 2022, 11:33:51 AM
Leaving out the exceptions can easily give the impression that you don't think there are exceptions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 11:40:04 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 16, 2022, 11:33:51 AM
Leaving out the exceptions can easily give the impression that you don't think there are exceptions.

Perhaps, but giving the impression that employees are entitled to consider their own interests ahead of the organization that is paying them to do otherwise is a bit odd.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 16, 2022, 11:57:07 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 11:31:04 AM
Not sure where you are going with that.  All employees owe a duty to their employer to act in the employer's interests - with limited exceptions (basically health and safety and the actions must be lawful).

I'm not going anywhere with it. I think it is implicit that you have to work with your employer's interests in mind but it is a very different thing to be told that you need to put your employer's interests above your own interests. I see little to no value in have a value statement that explicitly states that to employees.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 16, 2022, 12:07:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2022, 11:57:07 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 11:31:04 AM
Not sure where you are going with that.  All employees owe a duty to their employer to act in the employer's interests - with limited exceptions (basically health and safety and the actions must be lawful).

I'm not going anywhere with it. I think it is implicit that you have to work with your employer's interests in mind but it is a very different thing to be told that you need to put your employer's interests above your own interests. I see little to no value in have a value statement that explicitly states that to employees.

Who is telling their employees to put the employer's interests above their own interests?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 12:23:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 16, 2022, 11:57:07 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 11:31:04 AM
Not sure where you are going with that.  All employees owe a duty to their employer to act in the employer's interests - with limited exceptions (basically health and safety and the actions must be lawful).

I'm not going anywhere with it. I think it is implicit that you have to work with your employer's interests in mind but it is a very different thing to be told that you need to put your employer's interests above your own interests. I see little to no value in have a value statement that explicitly states that to employees.

There is an important distinction between what a person does while employed (let's call that on the clock) and what they do in their own time (off the clock).  On the clock an employee has a duty to their employee to perform the duties they have contracted to do.  That will almost always mean subordinating their own interests to that of the duties they must perform on behalf of the employer.  No organization could function effectively otherwise.  Imagine a world in which a person could say, "you know, I just don't feel like doing that today.  Find someone else to do it would you."

Off the clock you can think about whether that is best for you all you want.  And you can take steps to find better employment, retire or do whatever you want.  But on the clock, you have agreed to do what you being paid to do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 16, 2022, 12:52:29 PM
Well... if the phrase is meant to reflect the basic facts of employment that apply to all jobs, it seems a bit weird to make it the company value statement.

To me it comes across as an attempt to require the kind of dedication and esprit de corps you find in high morale military units. I can understand why it's desirable for a corporation if its people have that degree of commitment, but it seems a bit rich from the perspective as an employee. The context is a bit different, I'd think. Then again, I'll probably never work at Facebook, so what do I know?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 16, 2022, 01:21:25 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 16, 2022, 12:52:29 PM
Well... if the phrase is meant to reflect the basic facts of employment that apply to all jobs, it seems a bit weird to make it the company value statement.

To me it comes across as an attempt to require the kind of dedication and esprit de corps you find in high morale military units. I can understand why it's desirable for a corporation if its people have that degree of commitment, but it seems a bit rich from the perspective as an employee. The context is a bit different, I'd think. Then again, I'll probably never work at Facebook, so what do I know?

Well put, Jacob.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 16, 2022, 12:52:29 PM
Well... if the phrase is meant to reflect the basic facts of employment that apply to all jobs, it seems a bit weird to make it the company value statement.

To me it comes across as an attempt to require the kind of dedication and esprit de corps you find in high morale military units. I can understand why it's desirable for a corporation if its people have that degree of commitment, but it seems a bit rich from the perspective as an employee. The context is a bit different, I'd think. Then again, I'll probably never work at Facebook, so what do I know?

Why is it odd?  I don't understand why a commitment to the very thing that all employees of the corporation are attempting to achieve should not be stressed.  Their whole Schtick now is "Meta".  It is not then all that surprising that those who are supposed to be working with you toward that goal are also part of the equation.

Now, of course, if you are not on board with that, fine.  But they probably don't want you either.   Isn't that the purpose of a value statement?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on February 16, 2022, 02:01:39 PM
It's incredibly cringeworthy is all. It also sounds ridiculous to my non-protestant, non-Anglosaxon ears.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 02:14:57 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on February 16, 2022, 02:01:39 PM
It's incredibly cringeworthy is all. It also sounds ridiculous to my non-protestant, non-Anglosaxon ears.

Sure, I agree with that sentiment.  But then again, I think pretty much all value statements are cringeworthy.   
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 16, 2022, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 01:25:44 PM
Why is it odd?  I don't understand why a commitment to the very thing that all employees of the corporation are attempting to achieve should not be stressed.  Their whole Schtick now is "Meta".  It is not then all that surprising that those who are supposed to be working with you toward that goal are also part of the equation.

Now, of course, if you are not on board with that, fine.  But they probably don't want you either.   Isn't that the purpose of a value statement?

I thought we were arguing whether the value statement meant "conform to the basic principles of employment" or "strive to conduct yourselves according to the selfless values of a high morale military unit"?

It's only odd in the first case.

If it's the second case, it's a fine - if IMO cringeworthy - corporate value statement. As you so accurately say, I don't want them and they probably don't want me and that's part of the purpose of that kind of statement.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 04:11:52 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 16, 2022, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 01:25:44 PM
Why is it odd?  I don't understand why a commitment to the very thing that all employees of the corporation are attempting to achieve should not be stressed.  Their whole Schtick now is "Meta".  It is not then all that surprising that those who are supposed to be working with you toward that goal are also part of the equation.

Now, of course, if you are not on board with that, fine.  But they probably don't want you either.   Isn't that the purpose of a value statement?

I thought we were arguing whether the value statement meant "conform to the basic principles of employment" or "strive to conduct yourselves according to the selfless values of a high morale military unit"?

It's only odd in the first case.

If it's the second case, it's a fine - if IMO cringeworthy - corporate value statement. As you so accurately say, I don't want them and they probably don't want me and that's part of the purpose of that kind of statement.

Yeah, its not dissimilar to a lot of stuff I see coming out of corporate consultant's recommendations.  IMO its a huge waste of resources that could be better spent on stuff that actually improves employee morale, retention, productivity etc.  But it is all the rage these days. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on February 16, 2022, 04:38:30 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 04:11:52 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 16, 2022, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 01:25:44 PM
Why is it odd?  I don't understand why a commitment to the very thing that all employees of the corporation are attempting to achieve should not be stressed.  Their whole Schtick now is "Meta".  It is not then all that surprising that those who are supposed to be working with you toward that goal are also part of the equation.

Now, of course, if you are not on board with that, fine.  But they probably don't want you either.   Isn't that the purpose of a value statement?

I thought we were arguing whether the value statement meant "conform to the basic principles of employment" or "strive to conduct yourselves according to the selfless values of a high morale military unit"?

It's only odd in the first case.

If it's the second case, it's a fine - if IMO cringeworthy - corporate value statement. As you so accurately say, I don't want them and they probably don't want me and that's part of the purpose of that kind of statement.

Yeah, its not dissimilar to a lot of stuff I see coming out of corporate consultant's recommendations.  IMO its a huge waste of resources that could be better spent on stuff that actually improves employee morale, retention, productivity etc.  But it is all the rage these days.

If you have to come up with such 'work makes you free' corporate BS, then it's indicative of some deeper problems within it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 05:09:22 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 16, 2022, 04:38:30 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 04:11:52 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 16, 2022, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 16, 2022, 01:25:44 PM
Why is it odd?  I don't understand why a commitment to the very thing that all employees of the corporation are attempting to achieve should not be stressed.  Their whole Schtick now is "Meta".  It is not then all that surprising that those who are supposed to be working with you toward that goal are also part of the equation.

Now, of course, if you are not on board with that, fine.  But they probably don't want you either.   Isn't that the purpose of a value statement?

I thought we were arguing whether the value statement meant "conform to the basic principles of employment" or "strive to conduct yourselves according to the selfless values of a high morale military unit"?

It's only odd in the first case.

If it's the second case, it's a fine - if IMO cringeworthy - corporate value statement. As you so accurately say, I don't want them and they probably don't want me and that's part of the purpose of that kind of statement.

Yeah, its not dissimilar to a lot of stuff I see coming out of corporate consultant's recommendations.  IMO its a huge waste of resources that could be better spent on stuff that actually improves employee morale, retention, productivity etc.  But it is all the rage these days.

If you have to come up with such 'work makes you free' corporate BS, then it's indicative of some deeper problems within it.

Rather it is "being part of this team and giving it your all is very rewarding".    If you have ever played a team sport at a competitive level you will have encountered a very similar message.  it is also no coincidence that sports teams and the military use the same approach (sports historically being a socializing process to get young men ready for performing their duty to their country).  It can also be an effective means of getting peak performance in specific circumstances and that is why all the corporate guru's make a mint selling this stuff to corporate bosses, whether or not it translates well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 02, 2022, 08:34:41 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/xfsczhP/challenge.jpg)

I don't know if these two twitter posters are known people but :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 02, 2022, 08:53:52 AM
First one is a TV "doctor" (used to be a regular, reputed doctor, eventually turned into a snake oil salesman) made famous by Oprah Winfrey who is now entering politics as a Republican.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmet_Oz

No idea about the other guy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on March 02, 2022, 02:54:05 PM
I used to work for a company in which the quack Doctor was a major investor. He's a fucking fruitcake.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 03, 2022, 06:58:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/25Eaoua.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 03, 2022, 10:58:50 PM
No wonder he's having such difficulties, he started the game with his king out of commission.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 05, 2022, 01:17:33 AM
I don't know... It looks like not all the residents were happy of the entertainment provided...

(https://i.redd.it/zm5ytl6dpgl81.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 05, 2022, 01:29:25 AM
Stolen from reddit:

(https://preview.redd.it/sw6tdl3b2hl81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=168df72d908eeb5a1a027a7cb95bd4ee76135955)

 :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 05, 2022, 01:10:03 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1bpHbQr/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 05, 2022, 05:22:00 PM
Are they aware that non-english speaking countries without the ability to consume American media also understand viruses can be dangerous?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 05, 2022, 05:40:14 PM
One of the things I find annoying about American politics is that it is so parochial.  When a problem like the virus or the shipping shortages or the rising gas prices hits all over the world it probably means it doesn't have an American origin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 05, 2022, 06:10:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 05, 2022, 05:40:14 PMOne of the things I find annoying about American politics is that it is so parochial.  When a problem like the virus or the shipping shortages or the rising gas prices hits all over the world it probably means it doesn't have an American origin.

If it makes you feel any better, it seems to me that most countries can get pretty parochial in their analysis of cause and effect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 06, 2022, 12:08:12 AM
And all countries have media. It could be the conspiracy is global.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 06, 2022, 07:10:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 05, 2022, 05:22:00 PMAre they aware that non-english speaking countries without the ability to consume American media also understand viruses can be dangerous?

Corona really highlighted how mad these people are. So all the world's media, governments, and scientists, no matter how opposed they might be usually, are in on this hoax virus together because.... Reasons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 06, 2022, 02:31:19 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 06, 2022, 12:08:12 AMAnd all countries have media. It could be the conspiracy is global.

Many countries have no free media.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 06, 2022, 05:46:55 PM
All the easier for the conspiracy then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 06, 2022, 06:20:22 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 06, 2022, 07:10:36 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 05, 2022, 05:22:00 PMAre they aware that non-english speaking countries without the ability to consume American media also understand viruses can be dangerous?

Corona really highlighted how mad these people are. So all the world's media, governments, and scientists, no matter how opposed they might be usually, are in on this hoax virus together because.... Reasons.
Because they are Satanists from ancient Babylon who want to reduce the population to manageable levels.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on March 06, 2022, 06:31:13 PM
All these free thinkers who vomit out the same memes with the same comments at the same time. Boy am I a dumb sheep.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 06, 2022, 07:32:46 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 06, 2022, 05:46:55 PMAll the easier for the conspiracy then.

Talk about having it both ways.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 09, 2022, 01:40:34 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275342216_4937125589657786_7491796473914509962_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=NxVHEC_JZpIAX_byQ2R&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8SoxROALhf1LAAN6I8O5XkU-GZk79N1KqdGtrzUaZt4Q&oe=622E5898)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 09, 2022, 03:25:46 PM
Interesting buy in on the Putin line that the US caused the war.  Continued Russian influence over the American right is something to behold.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 09, 2022, 03:59:07 PM
My reading is that Putin acted now because he thinks Biden and Democrats are weak, while Manly Man Trump made him scared to try anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 09, 2022, 08:33:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/r8HfVYi.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: FunkMonk on March 09, 2022, 08:47:32 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 09, 2022, 09:19:37 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 09, 2022, 03:59:07 PMMy reading is that Putin acted now because he thinks Biden and Democrats are weak, while Manly Man Trump made him scared to try anything.

Well anything that happens in the entire world is the work of the US President even when there is no direct cause and effect link.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 10, 2022, 11:27:11 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274814976_10166065109290623_3585085564052402542_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=Khm1jUJOcKsAX-Br8rM&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8EyH5hOddrrhKY4c-Rcul-AV5Vw7bR0TC-TWwboiigXg&oe=622E3A7D)

Great Replacement being replaced. Bound to happen I guess. Nothing is irreplaceable.

From a "Convoi de la liberté" (freedom convoy) FB Page shared by a contact of mine. That is in line with with the current topic on the Canadian politics thread.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 10, 2022, 11:41:45 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 10, 2022, 12:24:04 PM
My Indian friend is sharing on WhatsApp the American biolab bollocks. Sigh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 10, 2022, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 09, 2022, 03:59:07 PMMy reading is that Putin acted now because he thinks Biden and Democrats are weak, while Manly Man Trump made him scared to try anything.

Never bet against the Moustache:

QuoteJohn Bolton, who served as former President Donald Trump's national security adviser, said that Russian President Vladimir Putin didn't invade Ukraine while Trump was in office because "Putin saw Trump doing a lot of his work for him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 16, 2022, 03:19:45 PM
This first one is for Mery: :D
(https://petsreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5-1.jpg)

(https://petsreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/8-1.jpg)

(https://petsreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/38-1.jpg)

And I love that one:  :lol:
(https://petsreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/10.jpg)


https://petsreporter.com/classical-art-memes-is/8/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 16, 2022, 08:43:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8E7PIyy.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 16, 2022, 09:14:38 PM
Good one Jacob! :D :lol:



(https://scontent.fymq3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275613156_3095808757337585_3046689919240074334_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=8GPkZH-dOlAAX9bcwvf&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq3-1.fna&oh=00_AT8qcJxN-SINvry2Gue7pEj7bDlgynoExxTSY1EXHVD4Jg&oe=6236EA4F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 16, 2022, 09:43:26 PM
Russian hackers/trolls seems to be busy with something else.  Syt hasn't posted much from his sisters' accounts lately ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 17, 2022, 12:55:54 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275281840_10224195711953761_8777069832406587814_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zUV0oqmj-FAAX8ho6kg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT--FYYCbwMtPNsW1LNw3OYihjCGxmQ5HojfN6TKtSV4yQ&oe=62374CDC)

From my oldest sis whose youngest kid is trans. (She's also the one who's pro-gay on account of her two gay sons.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 17, 2022, 01:18:36 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2022, 12:55:54 AMFrom my oldest sis whose youngest kid is trans. (She's also the one who's pro-gay on account of her two gay sons.)

Do you have any idea how her kids cope with their mother, given this?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 17, 2022, 02:28:10 AM
Quote from: Jacob on March 17, 2022, 01:18:36 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2022, 12:55:54 AMFrom my oldest sis whose youngest kid is trans. (She's also the one who's pro-gay on account of her two gay sons.)

Do you have any idea how her kids cope with their mother, given this?
I would imagine being trans and having a rightwing transphobic mother is quite fucking awful. It could lead to severe psychological trauma, suicidal ideation, staying closeted for years, and all manner of other dreadful things. One would never feel comfortable coming out to them or relaxing around them and being one's true self, always walking on eggshells and living in fear. One would drift farther and farther away from their family in general as time went on due to the situation. When a parent more or less implies they would rather have a dead kid than a trans kid, it is incredibly damaging. I would imagine.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 17, 2022, 03:03:31 AM
Quote from: Jacob on March 17, 2022, 01:18:36 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2022, 12:55:54 AMFrom my oldest sis whose youngest kid is trans. (She's also the one who's pro-gay on account of her two gay sons.)

Do you have any idea how her kids cope with their mother, given this?

Oldest gay son (politically left-wing) seems to have limited contact. Second gay son is "the good guy" - keeping things unpolitical on his FB page, and living the gay navy life. I feel politics is something he doesn't talk about with his parents. Third son - no idea, has no online presence. Youngest son (trans, f=>m) posted that they quit FB because of how many xenophobic, racist bigots are in his friends list. He later surfaced to say how much it sucks to be constantly misgendered and deadnamed by friends and family. He still lives with his family (though he graduated high school, but otherwise no idea what he's up to). I tried to reach out to him but got no response.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 17, 2022, 08:38:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2022, 12:55:54 AM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275281840_10224195711953761_8777069832406587814_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zUV0oqmj-FAAX8ho6kg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT--FYYCbwMtPNsW1LNw3OYihjCGxmQ5HojfN6TKtSV4yQ&oe=62374CDC)

From my oldest sis whose youngest kid is trans. (She's also the one who's pro-gay on account of her two gay sons.)

If Evangelical right wing Christians had the strength of their convictions they would believe that their god created trans people and would think conversion therapy was a sin.

 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 17, 2022, 09:01:43 AM
You know her better but to be fair I could interprete that text as pro trans if clunky.
"You're just confused" is an anti trans put down. So that you're a MtF transexual is all down to god deciding you were meant to be a woman in the first place.

I wonder how much of it is down to it being the born female being trans and if it had been one of the gay guys it wouldnt be an issue? Factors of the only girl and conservative tendencies to allow men far more leeway apply.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 17, 2022, 09:35:30 AM
(https://scontent.fyhu1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275726940_5237244669673559_256446956294792655_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=qyUUud0cQWcAX9mwKqD&_nc_ht=scontent.fyhu1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9GSWhFvkbNv5OHaL_HW49qULl7s2N2trCmToplPTS7fQ&oe=62375727)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 17, 2022, 09:36:45 AM
Quote from: Josquius on March 17, 2022, 09:01:43 AMYou know her better but to be fair I could interprete that text as pro trans if clunky.
"You're just confused" is an anti trans put down. So that you're a MtF transexual is all down to god deciding you were meant to be a woman in the first place.

I would like to believe it, but not likely based on her posting history (unless she recently changed her mind).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 17, 2022, 05:50:28 PM
Sometimes sports teams should think about their social media activity and just say "no".  :pinch:


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOEAPKuVkAUklyx?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 17, 2022, 06:16:28 PM
Charming video clip of Putin and Xi: https://twitter.com/i/status/1504332471122677760

(warning, it may be doctored slightly. Xi looks skinnier in the video than he does in real life)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 20, 2022, 12:12:26 PM

Quote from: Jacob on March 17, 2022, 06:16:28 PMCharming video clip of Putin and Xi: https://twitter.com/i/status/1504332471122677760

(warning, it may be doctored slightly. Xi looks skinnier in the video than he does in real life)

Even without having seen the movie, I think I understand the reference! :lol:

It's kinda cool what you can do with that DeepAI thing though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 24, 2022, 11:14:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nXmfcL5.jpeg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 25, 2022, 12:42:24 AM
Quote from: Jacob on March 24, 2022, 11:14:30 PM(https://i.imgur.com/nXmfcL5.jpeg)

:lol:
It does nicely sum up the state of Russian forces
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 28, 2022, 07:16:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/68fL5bj.png)

... but to be fair, I don't think it's American only  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 04, 2022, 05:53:33 AM
Found on Twitter:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPfZNk_XEAIuh0T?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 04, 2022, 07:52:37 AM
Ah projection
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 13, 2022, 02:42:07 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/920230017013805087/963790898188156950/278075649_10160577087250400_3269237307541523627_n.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 14, 2022, 07:11:13 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277812624_10160443301767608_5485113036705333105_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=XXKxjOe0Uv8AX-gwCla&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=00_AT_SPWKk14CxvMSyGEumegWN_2mm9yRqLqJcgDsMbuU6AQ&oe=625CDA84)

A very œdipian run-off in France:
a parricide versus one who marries his mother.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 17, 2022, 10:49:44 PM
So apparently this is Chinese anti-American propaganda:

(https://imgur.com/t9S6dKq.jpg)

... makes the US look pretty damn cool
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 17, 2022, 11:57:19 PM
Cyber-xenomorph mechs? I'd watch that anime/read that manga. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on April 18, 2022, 07:31:45 AM
I kind of want to see that in a prestige Sci-FI tv series.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 18, 2022, 07:45:45 AM
Wait. Who is giving America money?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2022, 07:48:56 AM
Armor really is obsolete.  That Russian tank is fucked.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 18, 2022, 07:50:38 AM
I don't get the big glow stick coming out of his mouth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on April 18, 2022, 07:54:03 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 18, 2022, 07:50:38 AMI don't get the big glow stick coming out of his mouth.

It's a rocket.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on April 18, 2022, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Jacob on April 17, 2022, 10:49:44 PMSo apparently this is Chinese anti-American propaganda:

(https://imgur.com/t9S6dKq.jpg)

... makes the US look pretty damn cool

Damn. I love how this makes no sense whatsoever. Though I do wish the xenomorph throne was a thing!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on April 18, 2022, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 18, 2022, 07:50:38 AMI don't get the big glow stick coming out of his mouth.

It's for decanting the wine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 18, 2022, 02:40:06 PM
He's shooting a Lego piece, but beyond than that I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 19, 2022, 11:08:12 PM
Ah, when your soil talks to you :)

(https://i.redd.it/9lzp0qxv9hu81.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on April 19, 2022, 11:55:04 PM
It's hard to imagine that soil can say anything meaningful, if a common saying is to be believed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on April 20, 2022, 02:23:15 AM
Ooh! Ooh! I know a humongous organ! :w00t:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 21, 2022, 04:05:44 PM
Soil conversation = dirty talk
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 22, 2022, 11:12:56 AM
(https://i.redd.it/9cdt2do5iru81.jpg)

Kinda confusing...  "OUI" is French for "YES".  :P

(Maine uses Operating Under influence instead of DUI)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 22, 2022, 11:32:57 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 22, 2022, 11:12:56 AM(https://i.redd.it/9cdt2do5iru81.jpg)

Kinda confusing...  "OUI" is French for "YES".  :P

(Maine uses Operating Under influence instead of DUI)

I was confused as well.

But this is as good a time as any for one of my pet peeves - Canada does not use the term DUI.  Our equivalent is DWI - driving while impaired.  But for short form we typically just call it "impaired".  As in - I have an impaired trial on Monday (which I do!).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on April 22, 2022, 12:13:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 22, 2022, 11:32:57 AMBut this is as good a time as any for one of my pet peeves - Canada does not use the term DUI.  Our equivalent is DWI - driving while impaired.  But for short form we typically just call it "impaired".  As in - I have an impaired trial on Monday (which I do!).

We're all over the map between DUI (driving under the influence), DWI (driving while intoxicated), DWI (driving while impaired), OUI (operating a vehicle under the influence), and OWI (operating while impaired).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 22, 2022, 12:19:17 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 22, 2022, 11:12:56 AM(https://i.redd.it/9cdt2do5iru81.jpg)

Kinda confusing...  "OUI" is French for "YES".  :P

(Maine uses Operating Under influence instead of DUI)

That's amazing especially as Maine traditionally had francophone towns in the border areas (not sure if it still does but even so you don't have to be fluent to get the joke)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 22, 2022, 12:46:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 22, 2022, 11:32:57 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 22, 2022, 11:12:56 AM(https://i.redd.it/9cdt2do5iru81.jpg)

Kinda confusing...  "OUI" is French for "YES".  :P

(Maine uses Operating Under influence instead of DUI)

I was confused as well.

But this is as good a time as any for one of my pet peeves - Canada does not use the term DUI.  Our equivalent is DWI - driving while impaired.  But for short form we typically just call it "impaired".  As in - I have an impaired trial on Monday (which I do!).

Good luck!  I hope you keep your licence!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 22, 2022, 12:50:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 22, 2022, 12:46:36 PMGood luck!  I hope you keep your licence!

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/299959f1bcad51b54ca1d50556c3309c315e496c/c=0-80-1600-984/local/-/media/Phoenix/Phoenix/2014/11/19/635520020160086182-country.jpg?width=1600&height=800&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on April 22, 2022, 12:57:34 PM
Nice one, Raz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: ulmont on April 22, 2022, 01:37:58 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 22, 2022, 12:46:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 22, 2022, 11:32:57 AMBut for short form we typically just call it "impaired".  As in - I have an impaired trial on Monday (which I do!).

Good luck!  I hope you keep your licence!

 :lmfao:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Habbaku on April 22, 2022, 01:55:32 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 22, 2022, 03:29:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 22, 2022, 12:19:17 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 22, 2022, 11:12:56 AM(https://i.redd.it/9cdt2do5iru81.jpg)

Kinda confusing...  "OUI" is French for "YES".  :P

(Maine uses Operating Under influence instead of DUI)

That's amazing especially as Maine traditionally had francophone towns in the border areas (not sure if it still does but even so you don't have to be fluent to get the joke)
It still has, I see articles, from time to time, in major publications about Franco Americans :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 23, 2022, 02:17:38 AM
Iowa has OUI as well.  So people will say do you have any owies?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2022, 04:40:06 PM
I am glad German music has evolved a little nowadays :lol:

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2022, 05:00:57 PM
Ludwig wept.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 26, 2022, 02:07:38 PM
From Twitter.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRRAClwWQAU1gWS?format=jpg&name=large)

I kind of want to believe it's parody, but it's not easy to say these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 26, 2022, 02:17:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2022, 02:07:38 PMFrom Twitter.

I kind of want to believe it's parody, but it's not easy to say these days.

It's called complementarianism - that men and women have different roles and responsibilities in life and marriage, but not that one is inherently better than than the other.

It's something I have some sympathy for, but if you start categorizing certain tasks or chores or whatever as being exclusively "male" or "female" I think you get into a lot of trouble.

That being said though... my wife has basically the same size feet as I do.  I can easily wear her shoes if say I can't find mine. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on April 26, 2022, 02:20:18 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 26, 2022, 02:17:09 PM.

That being said though... my wife has basically the same size feet as I do.  I can easily wear her shoes if say I can't find mine. :)

You're living life as God intended it.
Not like those other sinners.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 26, 2022, 02:23:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 26, 2022, 02:17:09 PMThat being said though... my wife has basically the same size feet as I do.  I can easily wear her shoes if say I can't find mine. :)

DO you guys wear robes in court? You could get away with wearing heels without anyone noticing. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on April 26, 2022, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 26, 2022, 02:23:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 26, 2022, 02:17:09 PMThat being said though... my wife has basically the same size feet as I do.  I can easily wear her shoes if say I can't find mine. :)

DO you guys wear robes in court? You could get away with wearing heels without anyone noticing. :)

Barristers robes yes (only in the Court of Queen's Bench and higher though).  Problem is:

A: robes don't go to the floor so your shoes are still visible; and

B: Mrs B is self-conscious that she's taller than me by 2 inches.  I don't think I've ever seen her wear more than a slight wedge.

:(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on April 26, 2022, 02:32:53 PM
:(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 06, 2022, 01:22:54 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279945903_568479721301998_2129603101500415980_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=XPqKhesQbxEAX_IRESQ&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_5gRk8o8DYLm4hsKCATm-MkZHA5KEvbYWRRfFlR2JPFw&oe=62795FCD)

Guess life, liberty and pursuit of happiness (plus many other things) are off the menu. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 06, 2022, 01:27:41 PM
The world owes everyone a pen and a yellow legal pad?  That's odd.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 06, 2022, 01:41:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 26, 2022, 02:28:22 PMBarristers robes yes (only in the Court of Queen's Bench and higher though).  Problem is:

A: robes don't go to the floor so your shoes are still visible; and

B: Mrs B is self-conscious that she's taller than me by 2 inches.  I don't think I've ever seen her wear more than a slight wedge.

:(

Then you definitely need to start wearing heels!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 06, 2022, 04:07:29 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 06, 2022, 01:41:07 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 26, 2022, 02:28:22 PMBarristers robes yes (only in the Court of Queen's Bench and higher though).  Problem is:

A: robes don't go to the floor so your shoes are still visible; and

B: Mrs B is self-conscious that she's taller than me by 2 inches.  I don't think I've ever seen her wear more than a slight wedge.

:(

Then you definitely need to start wearing heels!

The Louis XIV look. High heels and a wig are manly!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 06, 2022, 04:26:26 PM
Did people consider Louis manly? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on May 06, 2022, 05:19:05 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 07, 2022, 12:26:43 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 06, 2022, 04:26:26 PMDid people consider Louis manly? :unsure:
There's 18 of them, you have to be more precise.  :P

Louis XIV, yes, he had many mistresses.  XV and XVI too.  Not sure about how was perceived XIII (rumours of homosexuality, so I'm not sure how that was viewed precisely) or any of the other 12 ones before that.  XVII was too young and I don't know much about #18.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 07, 2022, 02:16:06 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 06, 2022, 04:26:26 PMDid people consider Louis manly? :unsure:

Those calves. :perv:

(https://slideplayer.com/slide/13340510/80/images/9/Louis+XIV+-+Fashion+Icon.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Malthus on May 07, 2022, 02:24:54 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 06, 2022, 04:26:26 PMDid people consider Louis manly? :unsure:

Yup.

Dudes peacocking with long hair, heels, and jewelry can seem either masculine or feminine depending on context and culture - like how heavy metal rockers can take on the look of "hair" bands and still think of themselves as solidly masculine.

No question Louis xiv though of himself (and was thought by others) as being "manly".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 07, 2022, 03:31:20 PM
Being the absolute ruler of one of the most powerful nations in the world at the time would also tend to make people think he was manly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2022, 12:40:22 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/280459379_419884696806340_6527438882876194185_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=V4qy3K7o4XQAX9qWbtY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_Jv6NsQyiDM_qiRCiu358D1MRigSO56PW0t8ycLzDO-g&oe=6282E965)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2022, 12:58:53 PM
What does the propaganda consist of? LGBT people trying to live their lives?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2022, 01:21:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2022, 12:58:53 PMWhat does the propaganda consist of? LGBT people trying to live their lives?

Gotta ask my sister. (This is from the one who usually posts "I'm an LGBT ally!" stuff, with two gays sons, and one trans son.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2022, 06:52:07 PM
I can see how it would be hard to avoid the LGBT Propaganda in that situation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 12, 2022, 10:26:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2022, 06:52:07 PMI can see how it would be hard to avoid the LGBT Propaganda in that situation.
Crazy, ultra religious, anti-gay Republicans tend to overwhelmingly have LGBT sons & daughters. 

Or, they just wear women lingerie themselves while participating in coke fueled orgies, apparently.

It's the new "gays are evil so please man suck my cock in the airport's bathroom" thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 12, 2022, 10:29:24 PM
I don't think your study of tabloid headlines is very scientific.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 12, 2022, 11:28:03 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 12, 2022, 10:29:24 PMI don't think your study of tabloid headlines is very scientific.

Disagree; viper's study of tabloid headlines is, in fact, very scientific. It's peer reviewed; I'm his peer, and I reviewed it. He's correct. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 13, 2022, 12:04:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2022, 06:52:07 PMI can see how it would be hard to avoid the LGBT Propaganda in that situation.

Normally she's posting pro-gay stuff (though she never seems to have accepted her youngest identifying as male, though they've done it since their teens, including spending an entire year at a new school as male towards friends).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 17, 2022, 12:05:46 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/281214046_387788150045341_6684358405843580256_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s1080x2048&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=9N_1ofG2kZcAX9hri1s&_nc_oc=AQkvERKOwIE_N1T9asTyjiaLO0FMXLVS0fVUnGlHKX1pwGaGohc_CgL-dRHXhqAOqqI&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-xW4YH5pbfGyPpKKS2yT_npWTnccI9j-fJQukTBpB9Aw&oe=628855FC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5yLGhNTX/image.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/W4x5scMg/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 17, 2022, 12:15:14 PM
BUILD THE FUCKING WAAAAL! It doesn't have to accomplish anything but I still want it!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 17, 2022, 05:01:29 PM
Mexico is suppose to pay for the wall.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 17, 2022, 08:20:46 PM
What is a taxpayer funded wall material?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 17, 2022, 08:23:09 PM
I mean I think we are doing better than January 2021.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on May 17, 2022, 08:30:32 PM
January 2021 four thousand people a day died of Covid.  It really wasn't a good time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 18, 2022, 12:03:56 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/280967881_3322899787927913_2170180168599702401_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=TXwlPhi-rXcAX8yvcey&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8MrMhfqOLfs-lY6ShC0vmpa2-36Lm2XGP7ae3nWANk_A&oe=6289381E)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282328339_10224815508272649_3105869062141496986_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SonbMcLK9YAAX8UjhZM&_nc_oc=AQl4xRtOz_wmJNKk8l6aYJDDT-1D7RX7-xvl4bKS4iLMHcN1nn4WWgz0s-8eQ34MwuY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9VT__HHOZj4HOkP8lpmh9A8mIthehgCIOGHI4F9mda2Q&oe=628AB06D)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282135238_3324181354466423_2801931737358382878_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=CBR--TEq7bMAX9ojJ1k&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9xX4TSV6x-nTdFTGntpBN9rNOCCS8n-nQg3tmkdRlTMg&oe=628928A6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 17, 2022, 08:20:46 PMWhat is a taxpayer funded wall material?

It's the stuff the taxpayers paid for but never materialized because no work was ever done.  That it was done by order of Donald Trump is irrelevant.  It's Biden's fault.  It could be Harris' fault too, be we never see her around.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 18, 2022, 01:44:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 18, 2022, 12:03:56 PM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282328339_10224815508272649_3105869062141496986_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SonbMcLK9YAAX8UjhZM&_nc_oc=AQl4xRtOz_wmJNKk8l6aYJDDT-1D7RX7-xvl4bKS4iLMHcN1nn4WWgz0s-8eQ34MwuY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9VT__HHOZj4HOkP8lpmh9A8mIthehgCIOGHI4F9mda2Q&oe=628AB06D)

Don't leave me hanging!! Tell me the QAnon version!  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 18, 2022, 06:45:58 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 17, 2022, 08:20:46 PMWhat is a taxpayer funded wall material?

It's the stuff the taxpayers paid for but never materialized because no work was ever done.  That it was done by order of Donald Trump is irrelevant.  It's Biden's fault.  It could be Harris' fault too, be we never see her around.

What, exactly, is the "stuff" to which you make such a confident referral? Who, exactly, got the taxpayers' money and then had their work "never materialize?" 

Or is this another one of those issues where right-wingers read a bumper sticker and assume that that gives them a PhD on the subject?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 18, 2022, 06:45:58 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 17, 2022, 08:20:46 PMWhat is a taxpayer funded wall material?

It's the stuff the taxpayers paid for but never materialized because no work was ever done.  That it was done by order of Donald Trump is irrelevant.  It's Biden's fault.  It could be Harris' fault too, be we never see her around.

What, exactly, is the "stuff" to which you make such a confident referral? Who, exactly, got the taxpayers' money and then had their work "never materialize?" 

Or is this another one of those issues where right-wingers read a bumper sticker and assume that that gives them a PhD on the subject?
They scammed one another:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/steve-bannon-trump-wall-donations-b1854051.html

Don't know if there was taxpayer money or not, you should ask the one who posted the image and the text.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 18, 2022, 08:04:19 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 18, 2022, 06:45:58 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 17, 2022, 08:20:46 PMWhat is a taxpayer funded wall material?

It's the stuff the taxpayers paid for but never materialized because no work was ever done.  That it was done by order of Donald Trump is irrelevant.  It's Biden's fault.  It could be Harris' fault too, be we never see her around.

What, exactly, is the "stuff" to which you make such a confident referral? Who, exactly, got the taxpayers' money and then had their work "never materialize?" 

Or is this another one of those issues where right-wingers read a bumper sticker and assume that that gives them a PhD on the subject?

They read?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 18, 2022, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 07:29:39 PMThey scammed one another:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/steve-bannon-trump-wall-donations-b1854051.html

Don't know if there was taxpayer money or not, you should ask the one who posted the image and the text.

 :huh:  Syt posted that as part of a series of moronic posts taken from his family's "Facebook follies."  He certainly didn't swallow the lie hook, line, and sinker like you did.  You apparently believe this Shawwnna Bolick, and I'm curious as to why.  She seems to be an absolute nutball, who, for instance, proposed legislation that would allow the Arizona state legislature to change the state's electoral college votes up to the moment of the president taking the oath.  Her bill died in committee because it explicitly violated the state's constitution.  So she's running to be the state's chief election official, despite not knowing what the the state's constitution and legislation says about elections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 18, 2022, 09:19:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 18, 2022, 01:44:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 18, 2022, 12:03:56 PM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282328339_10224815508272649_3105869062141496986_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SonbMcLK9YAAX8UjhZM&_nc_oc=AQl4xRtOz_wmJNKk8l6aYJDDT-1D7RX7-xvl4bKS4iLMHcN1nn4WWgz0s-8eQ34MwuY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9VT__HHOZj4HOkP8lpmh9A8mIthehgCIOGHI4F9mda2Q&oe=628AB06D)

Don't leave me hanging!! Tell me the QAnon version!  :mad:

A teeny tiny blown up for size pixel towards the North east of the US is responsible for the world's troubles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 18, 2022, 09:35:01 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 18, 2022, 09:19:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 18, 2022, 01:44:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 18, 2022, 12:03:56 PM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282328339_10224815508272649_3105869062141496986_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SonbMcLK9YAAX8UjhZM&_nc_oc=AQl4xRtOz_wmJNKk8l6aYJDDT-1D7RX7-xvl4bKS4iLMHcN1nn4WWgz0s-8eQ34MwuY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9VT__HHOZj4HOkP8lpmh9A8mIthehgCIOGHI4F9mda2Q&oe=628AB06D)

Don't leave me hanging!! Tell me the QAnon version!  :mad:

A teeny tiny blown up for size pixel towards the North east of the US is responsible for the world's troubles.

The "teeny tiny blown up for size pixel" northeast of the US on that map is called the United Kingdom.  I'm pretty sure that they are not responsible for all of the world's troubles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 10:29:29 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 18, 2022, 08:39:31 PMHe certainly didn't swallow the lie hook, line, and sinker like you did.
I certainly did no such thing.  The fact that I said it was all Biden's fault even if it was Trump's idea should have given you a clue.  I am sorry I wasn't clear enough.  I do not posses a PhD in irony.


Quote from: grumbler on May 18, 2022, 08:39:31 PMYou apparently believe this Shawwnna Bolick, and I'm curious as to why.
I misremembered the Bannon scam.  I thought contractors received public funds from the Federal and some State governments to build the stupid wall and never delivered on it.  It turns out it was a private scam between Trumpist supporters. Well, Republican supporters as they are the same nowadays.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 18, 2022, 10:38:17 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 18, 2022, 01:44:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 18, 2022, 12:03:56 PM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282328339_10224815508272649_3105869062141496986_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SonbMcLK9YAAX8UjhZM&_nc_oc=AQl4xRtOz_wmJNKk8l6aYJDDT-1D7RX7-xvl4bKS4iLMHcN1nn4WWgz0s-8eQ34MwuY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9VT__HHOZj4HOkP8lpmh9A8mIthehgCIOGHI4F9mda2Q&oe=628AB06D)

Don't leave me hanging!! Tell me the QAnon version!  :mad:

They want me to believe that? Because I have never even heard the idea that all current supply chain issues are caused by the Ukraine War and only that until I saw this post. So they are doing a weak sauce job getting the suggestion out there much less convincing me it's true.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 10:53:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 18, 2022, 10:38:17 PMThey want me to believe that? Because I have never even heard the idea that all current supply chain issues are caused by
the Ukraine War and only that until I saw this post. So they are doing a weak sauce job getting the suggestion out there much less convincing me it's true.

Something tells me you are not the target audience... :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 19, 2022, 01:34:17 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 18, 2022, 09:35:01 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 18, 2022, 09:19:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 18, 2022, 01:44:09 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 18, 2022, 12:03:56 PM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282328339_10224815508272649_3105869062141496986_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SonbMcLK9YAAX8UjhZM&_nc_oc=AQl4xRtOz_wmJNKk8l6aYJDDT-1D7RX7-xvl4bKS4iLMHcN1nn4WWgz0s-8eQ34MwuY&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9VT__HHOZj4HOkP8lpmh9A8mIthehgCIOGHI4F9mda2Q&oe=628AB06D)

Don't leave me hanging!! Tell me the QAnon version!  :mad:

A teeny tiny blown up for size pixel towards the North east of the US is responsible for the world's troubles.

The "teeny tiny blown up for size pixel" northeast of the US on that map is called the United Kingdom.  I'm pretty sure that they are not responsible for all of the world's troubles.

I mean DC/the white House.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 19, 2022, 01:40:15 AM
Where they have a bit of a point of course is that inflation is only made worse by the war and was well on its way up before it. And the unfolding recession is due to that inflation forcing central banks to stop fueling the decade-long asset bubble pumping, which they had been doing to pretend they fixed the 2008 crisis' aftermath.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 19, 2022, 01:42:58 AM
Quote from: Josquius on May 19, 2022, 01:34:17 AMI mean DC/the white House.

FYI Americans don't think of DC as in the Northeast.  NYC and up I'd say.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 19, 2022, 01:58:43 AM
I'd start with Philly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 19, 2022, 02:10:29 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 19, 2022, 01:58:43 AMI'd start with Philly.

Jersey is usually in the Mid Atlantic, and Philly is south of Jersey.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 19, 2022, 06:12:01 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 10:29:29 PMI certainly did no such thing.  The fact that I said it was all Biden's fault even if it was Trump's idea should have given you a clue.  I am sorry I wasn't clear enough.  I do not posses a PhD in irony.

I apologize.  I totally misread the tone of your post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2022, 10:16:48 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/2jGbC3PW/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 19, 2022, 12:39:21 PM
Ugh
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 20, 2022, 01:00:57 PM
Obviously Musk's tantrum, as contemptible as it is, is pretty disastrous for us politically. The hits just keep on coming. More celebrities being put to work for the right wing.

Though maybe this makes Republicans big supporters of electric cars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 20, 2022, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 20, 2022, 01:00:57 PMObviously Musk's tantrum, as contemptible as it is, is pretty disastrous for us politically. The hits just keep on coming. More celebrities being put to work for the right wing.

Though maybe this makes Republicans big supporters of electric cars.

Which Musk tantrum are we talking about now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on May 20, 2022, 02:23:12 PM
The twitter thing. He paid off some woman he sexually harassed, it was then exposed in the media. He declared that he was being persecuted by far left Woke types, because I guess conservatives love paying off your sex scandals I don't know, and declared that while he was a Democrat the whole party is just about hate and division so now he supports the open and loving Republicans.

So this is all a sad bunch of bullshit. But obviously it is a political shitshow for us since this dude has tons of admirers and employees.

I think twitter has destroyed this man's mind. Nothing here makes any sense but I guess you have to live in a twitter warped mind to come to the conclusions he is. But that doesn't make it any less bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on May 20, 2022, 02:44:01 PM
QuoteThe twitter thing

That could be anything.  :D

Anyway, what a (dangerous) moron.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 20, 2022, 03:16:53 PM
Conservatives didn't care about Trump settling his sex scandals with money either, so why would they care about the recent allegations regarding Musk?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on May 20, 2022, 04:02:30 PM
If you want a party that will tolerate your hypocrisy and general assholeish behavior, there is a clear choice for sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 20, 2022, 07:19:51 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 20, 2022, 04:02:30 PMIf you want a party that will tolerate your hypocrisy and general assholeish behavior, there is a clear choice for sure.

Wild Turkey?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 20, 2022, 08:50:42 PM
The difference between Musk the Democrat and Musk the republican is that Republican Musk has finally realized that he hates women.

Seeing women supporting the Republicans is just weird.  Why the self-loathing?  Did Susan Collins really enjoy it when Trump grabbed her by the pussy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 20, 2022, 08:55:10 PM
Trump would tell you she's not attractive enough for him to pussy-grab.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 20, 2022, 08:59:18 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 20, 2022, 08:55:10 PMTrump would tell you she's not attractive enough for him to pussy-grab.

So she is supporting the Misogynistic Party for no gain whatsoever?  Maybe she's just Otnay Ootay Ightbray.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2022, 12:19:47 AM
My sister is clearly in the Hamilcar camp when it comes to tornadoes.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/281553095_10224829619505421_6163938882137422465_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=-peGzt25MBQAX-b8f4B&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9jAQK7UoCQezT8Q7_fezcgmCqGU0vH7Zrm67nzzKqB6Q&oe=628D38C2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1zY5zMqN/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 21, 2022, 12:51:33 AM
It's actually a common Russian putdown of America:  Americans are so dumb that they build houses from cardboard and turds in tornado-prone areas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 21, 2022, 01:22:43 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 21, 2022, 12:51:33 AMIt's actually a common Russian putdown of America:  Americans are so dumb that they build houses from cardboard and turds in tornado-prone areas.
Which can nog be countered by saying the Russians are so stupid to send their army on an invasion so they can't stop fires in Siberia... letting villages burn down
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 21, 2022, 03:02:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 20, 2022, 02:23:12 PMThe twitter thing. He paid off some woman he sexually harassed, it was then exposed in the media. He declared that he was being persecuted by far left Woke types, because I guess conservatives love paying off your sex scandals I don't know, and declared that while he was a Democrat the whole party is just about hate and division so now he supports the open and loving Republicans.

So this is all a sad bunch of bullshit. But obviously it is a political shitshow for us since this dude has tons of admirers and employees.

I think twitter has destroyed this man's mind. Nothing here makes any sense but I guess you have to live in a twitter warped mind to come to the conclusions he is. But that doesn't make it any less bad.

(https://i.redd.it/c7ns3t1khq091.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on May 21, 2022, 03:17:55 AM
Throwing libel at famous law firms might not be a smart move  :secret:

Also:

Free speech! Unless it's against me, then I'll sue your ass
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2022, 03:38:17 AM
Why does Musk feel increasingly like John McAfee turned up to 11?

Btw, I hadn't been aware that McAfee had ran anemic presidential campaigns in 2016 and 2020. Maybe it's me, but his 2020 campaign logo just screams evil cyberpunk corporation. :D

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/McAfee_2020_logo.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2022, 03:39:11 AM
Quote from: HVC on May 21, 2022, 03:17:55 AMThrowing libel at famous law firms might not be a smart move  :secret:

Also:

Free speech! Unless it's against me, then I'll sue your ass

Free Speech! For those who can afford it. It's like laws that only threaten fines - they really only apply to poor people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 21, 2022, 06:27:21 AM
AIUI Streetfighter lawyers are those willing to go to any lengths, no matter how corrupt, to win a case.  Musk doesn't want lawyers who "thrive on corruption," but instead wants lawyers who thrive on corruption.

Dude has a bad case of Putinitis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2022, 11:59:55 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/tgdkyDCd/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 21, 2022, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 20, 2022, 02:23:12 PMI think twitter has destroyed this man's mind. Nothing here makes any sense but I guess you have to live in a twitter warped mind to come to the conclusions he is. But that doesn't make it any less bad.
Another victim of marijuana abuse...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 21, 2022, 01:02:55 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2022, 11:59:55 AM(https://i.postimg.cc/tgdkyDCd/image.png)
I thought the probllem was the government and the house prices that were too high for first time buyers?  Isn't Republican ideology that private businesses are better at delivering services than the govt, and aren't there already private police forces in the US?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 21, 2022, 01:06:12 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2022, 03:38:17 AMWhy does Musk feel increasingly like John McAfee turned up to 11?
I keep telling you how dangerous marijuana can be, but no one listens to me. :P
Not that one needs to do drugs to be crazy, but it ain't no coincidence here.  This and Poilièvre's weird economic theories.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 21, 2022, 02:28:16 PM
Weird joke from a conservative group :/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 21, 2022, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2022, 01:06:12 PMI keep telling you how dangerous marijuana can be, but no one listens to me. :P
Not that one needs to do drugs to be crazy, but it ain't no coincidence here.  This and Poilièvre's weird economic theories.

Musk also drinks water, as does Poilievre and at least nine of the last ten people involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital (probably the tenth, as well, but data is too sketchy to say for sure).  All of this cannot be coincidental. Water is dangerous and should be outlawed!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 21, 2022, 03:48:06 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 21, 2022, 02:28:16 PMWeird joke from a conservative group :/

That can't be from an American conservative group, because it is warning against the very things that constitute the American conservative plan:  incite the riots, aid and inspire criminals like every US mass shooter in the last decade, and buy and run prisons and police forces for their own profit.  Murphy would go ham on every Republican US Senator and at least half the Republican US House members. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 22, 2022, 10:15:53 AM
Quote from: HVC on May 21, 2022, 03:17:55 AMThrowing libel at famous law firms might not be a smart move  :secret:

Also:

Free speech! Unless it's against me, then I'll sue your ass

I can't figure out who or what *Tesla* is supposed to be suing. 

OTOH looks like there will be increasing work for white collar and regulatory defense specialists.

As it happens, Cooley and Perkins both have strong teams in those areas . . .
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 22, 2022, 01:05:14 PM
We have some lawyers here.  How many of you work for firms that recruit lawyers by announcing open positions via twitter?  How many would want to work for a boss that is recruiting your peers that way?

At what point do Tesla shareholders revolt over this kind of shit?  At what point does Musk become more of a liability than an asset for his co-owners (who own 83% of the voteable shares)?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 22, 2022, 01:37:58 PM
Of the eight Tesla directors, one is Elon, one is Elon's brother, and another is Larry Ellison, who is as crazy as Elon is.  He isn't getting thrown out soon.

The real question is why the SEC let him off with a slap on the wrist in 2018, for blatant securities violations, and allowed him to stay as CEO.  That was a pragmatic call; other execs would have been gone for that behavior.  If the hope is that would be a one off, the Twitter mess shows he hasn't learned.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on May 22, 2022, 02:12:21 PM
Half* of the valuation of tesla is based on fanboys who love musk.   


* ok number is pulled from my ass :P, but from a shareholders view I think that musk is still am asset. Crazy as it seems.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 22, 2022, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 22, 2022, 02:12:21 PMHalf* of the valuation of tesla is based on fanboys who love musk.   

* ok number is pulled from my ass :P, but from a shareholders view I think that musk is still am asset. Crazy as it seems.

I concur that a good amount of Tesla's share value is driven by Musk-fanboyism, so getting rid of him will negatively impact share values. On the flip-side, I don't know how many Musk-fanboys are potential Tesla buyers compared to the folks Musk is alienating with his current antics.

Coincidentally, a Tesla lost power in Vancouver yesterday, locking all exits, and then spontaneously burst into flames.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 22, 2022, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 22, 2022, 03:28:50 PMCoincidentally, a Tesla lost power in Vancouver yesterday, locking all exits, and then spontaneously burst into flames.

That's WAD.  It's an entertainment app called "Elon on Twitter"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on May 22, 2022, 04:05:55 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 22, 2022, 03:31:14 PMThat's WAD.  It's an entertainment app called "Elon on Twitter"

There does seem to be a few parallels, yes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 22, 2022, 04:20:02 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 22, 2022, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 22, 2022, 02:12:21 PMHalf* of the valuation of tesla is based on fanboys who love musk.   

* ok number is pulled from my ass :P, but from a shareholders view I think that musk is still am asset. Crazy as it seems.

I concur that a good amount of Tesla's share value is driven by Musk-fanboyism, so getting rid of him will negatively impact share values. On the flip-side, I don't know how many Musk-fanboys are potential Tesla buyers compared to the folks Musk is alienating with his current antics.

Coincidentally, a Tesla lost power in Vancouver yesterday, locking all exits, and then spontaneously burst into flames.

I dunno. Musk certainly seems a horrid piece of work and I don't approve of him at all....
But a tesla is probably the car I'd want if I was the sort to spend big money on cars.
They are supposed to be very good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on May 22, 2022, 04:39:28 PM
Ignoring the rare spontaneous combustion, build quality is lacking. Wasn't as much of a big deal when they were the only fish in the pond, but it's becoming more of an issue as competition ramps up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on May 22, 2022, 05:22:30 PM
I think a good chuck of Tesla's value being tied to Musk is not at all about fanboyism, but the realization that Tesla would never have happened with him, and neither would SpaceX for that matter.

Maybe now that he has them going, they would be better off with more traditional leadership. But that isn't obvious to me anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on May 22, 2022, 05:26:53 PM
Musk is an asshole for sure (even moreso lately, and its hard to see the trend not continuing), but maybe we need a few more assholes like him - we just have to figure out how to direct them better. 

The entire twitter thing is just a distraction. Get him back to building rockets and making ridiculous demands of his engineers, rather then the left.

Reminds me that Isaac Newton, in his time, was considered to be pretty much a complete asshole.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspomeroy/2013/11/04/why-was-isaac-newton-such-a-jerk/?sh=1adc49d6e201
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 22, 2022, 06:12:14 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 22, 2022, 05:26:53 PMReminds me that Isaac Newton, in his time, was considered to be pretty much a complete asshole.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspomeroy/2013/11/04/why-was-isaac-newton-such-a-jerk/?sh=1adc49d6e201

Newton almost certainly has some degree of Asperger's Syndrome.  One of the keys was that he did not even publish works unless forced to do so by someone else "catching up." He just did the research for his own pleasure.  He had little to no interest in bettering man's understanding of the universe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on May 23, 2022, 04:04:10 AM
For certain Tesla is the "invest in Elon" stock for many. It would implode without him, and I suspect car sales would as well.

The cars themselves always give me a cheap-made vibe when looking at them, although I readily accept the claim they are (for now) the furthest ahead in EV tech.

One interesting point I heard in a video about modern car safety is that with the inflation of car weight over the last decade or so, weight does matter since the lighter car in a collision gets F-ed and safety measure are little help against basic physics. The electric/hybrid versions of "regular" cars are especially on the heavy end, due to batteries and the way EU emission quotas work (can't recall the details, sorry). Except Teslas don't have their petrol/diesel variants of the same chassis so they are significantly lighter than "converted" chassis counterparts. I imagine that must be an advantage in efficiency, but less of an advantage when a hybrid SUV rams into you at moderate to high speeds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 23, 2022, 04:07:32 AM
Quote from: HVC on May 22, 2022, 04:39:28 PMIgnoring the rare spontaneous combustion, build quality is lacking. Wasn't as much of a big deal when they were the only fish in the pond, but it's becoming more of an issue as competition ramps up.

From all I've heard they're pretty good and the build quality rumours dont amount to much.
Where I have heard complaints is they seem to be shifting onto a bit of a sass model which.... No.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on May 23, 2022, 08:17:31 AM
@Tamas: PHEV have typically fairly small engines/transmissions compared to the regular version of the same car, so their total weight difference is not that big compared to regular cars. In general, cars with combustion engine weigh less than comparable electric vehicles, be it Tesla or other manufacturers. The battery package is just very heavy.

The crash dynamics of a EV are nevertheless better for the passengers then in a ICE car as the engine block is harder to compensate with crumple zones and hard steel then the battery in the sandwich floor. On the other hand, lithium batteries are hard to handle for emergency services in crashes.

Everything has up- and downsides...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 23, 2022, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: Josquius on May 23, 2022, 04:07:32 AMFrom all I've heard they're pretty good and the build quality rumours dont amount to much.

We are on our second Model 3 now - the interiors are sparse and the build doesn't have the same quality feel as some of the better traditional brands of equivalent or higher price.  But the Tesla utterly smokes them in driving experience.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 10:43:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 21, 2022, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2022, 01:06:12 PMI keep telling you how dangerous marijuana can be, but no one listens to me. :P
Not that one needs to do drugs to be crazy, but it ain't no coincidence here.  This and Poilièvre's weird economic theories.

Musk also drinks water, as does Poilievre and at least nine of the last ten people involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital (probably the tenth, as well, but data is too sketchy to say for sure).  All of this cannot be coincidental. Water is dangerous and should be outlawed!
There is no evidence at all that water leads to delusions or psychotic episodes.  There is however a ton of evidence of this for marijuana:
Link to studies (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=fr&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=marijuana+psychosis&btnG=&oq=marijuana+psyc)

If you believe all these studies and meta studies were badly conducted, please elaborate and demonstrate.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on May 24, 2022, 10:49:51 AM
Tesla is built on the back of selling it's carbon credits to other companies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 22, 2022, 05:22:30 PMI think a good chuck of Tesla's value being tied to Musk is not at all about fanboyism, but the realization that Tesla would never have happened with him, and neither would SpaceX for that matter.
Amen to that.  The guy is a genius.  Super smart.  Totally lack people's skill (possibly due to his asperger syndrome).  He became super rich.  And weird.  And arrogant.  But he's still a bold genius.


Quote from: Berkut on May 22, 2022, 05:22:30 PMMaybe now that he has them going, they would be better off with more traditional leadership. But that isn't obvious to me anyway.
Tesla was a precursor.  They were the first successful commercial brand with electric engine.  

And they were the first to sell directly to consumers without a dealership system.  The first to sell cars 2-3 years before they were ready, with consumers not even sitting in the car to try it first.  That's something traditional brands were unwilling to do.  Until recently.  The most recent car buyers told me they have to order their car in advance, be on a waiting list, and commit to buying without trying it first.  And some companies are letting you customize and order your car online, with the dealership only responsible for final delivery.

So, like said, a very smart man, now imitated by many.  Everyone has gotten on the electric bandwagon after 2008.  I'm not sure there are that many brands still offering zero electric cars in their lineup now.  And they didn't wait for more stringent regulations to do it, they watched Tesla.

Just like in the tv & movie business every network now wants to imitate Netflix where as it was inconceivable a few years ago.

They smell the scent of profit.  They can sell inferior products at a premium price, they're all jumping on it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 24, 2022, 11:00:31 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 10:43:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 21, 2022, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2022, 01:06:12 PMI keep telling you how dangerous marijuana can be, but no one listens to me. :P
Not that one needs to do drugs to be crazy, but it ain't no coincidence here.  This and Poilièvre's weird economic theories.

Musk also drinks water, as does Poilievre and at least nine of the last ten people involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital (probably the tenth, as well, but data is too sketchy to say for sure).  All of this cannot be coincidental. Water is dangerous and should be outlawed!
There is no evidence at all that water leads to delusions or psychotic episodes.  There is however a ton of evidence of this for marijuana:
Link to studies (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=fr&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=marijuana+psychosis&btnG=&oq=marijuana+psyc)

If you believe all these studies and meta studies were badly conducted, please elaborate and demonstrate.  :)

I recall reading multiple times that pot use early in life increases the risk of schizophrenia, though it's not clear whether it increases the general risk, or just accentuates the existing predisposition.  Has that link ever been discredited?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 24, 2022, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2022, 11:00:31 AMI recall reading multiple times that pot use early in life increases the risk of schizophrenia, though it's not clear whether it increases the general risk, or just accentuates the existing predisposition.  Has that link ever been discredited?

There is a well-known correlation between marijuana and schizophrenia.

But because you can't exactly do double-blind studies on marijuana, we can't necessarily attribute causation - it might be that people susceptible to schizophrenia are just more likely to use marijuana.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on May 24, 2022, 03:53:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2022, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2022, 11:00:31 AMI recall reading multiple times that pot use early in life increases the risk of schizophrenia, though it's not clear whether it increases the general risk, or just accentuates the existing predisposition.  Has that link ever been discredited?

There is a well-known correlation between marijuana and schizophrenia.

But because you can't exactly do double-blind studies on marijuana, we can't necessarily attribute causation - it might be that people susceptible to schizophrenia are just more likely to use marijuana.

Surely the same holds true for alcohol in terms of studying the effects?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on May 24, 2022, 04:02:07 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 24, 2022, 03:53:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2022, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2022, 11:00:31 AMI recall reading multiple times that pot use early in life increases the risk of schizophrenia, though it's not clear whether it increases the general risk, or just accentuates the existing predisposition.  Has that link ever been discredited?

There is a well-known correlation between marijuana and schizophrenia.

But because you can't exactly do double-blind studies on marijuana, we can't necessarily attribute causation - it might be that people susceptible to schizophrenia are just more likely to use marijuana.

Surely the same holds true for alcohol in terms of studying the effects?

Because alcohol has been legal for so long it is much better studied than marijuana.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 24, 2022, 04:15:26 PM
There is a well-established correlation between erratic behavior and being Elon Musk.   Do we really need any deeper analysis?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on May 24, 2022, 07:42:15 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 24, 2022, 04:15:26 PMThere is a well-established correlation between erratic behavior and being Elon Musk.   Do we really need any deeper analysis?

 :hmm:   Now that I look at it, 100% of the founders of the first US all-electric-car companies in the 21st Century have gone crazy.  Correlation is not causation, but...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on May 24, 2022, 10:19:23 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 24, 2022, 07:42:15 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 24, 2022, 04:15:26 PMThere is a well-established correlation between erratic behavior and being Elon Musk.   Do we really need any deeper analysis?

 :hmm:   Now that I look at it, 100% of the founders of the first US all-electric-car companies in the 21st Century have gone crazy.  Correlation is not causation, but...
There cannot be a correlation when you only have one datapoint.  :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on May 25, 2022, 12:27:04 AM
Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2022, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2022, 11:00:31 AMI recall reading multiple times that pot use early in life increases the risk of schizophrenia, though it's not clear whether it increases the general risk, or just accentuates the existing predisposition.  Has that link ever been discredited?

There is a well-known correlation between marijuana and schizophrenia.

But because you can't exactly do double-blind studies on marijuana, we can't necessarily attribute causation - it might be that people susceptible to schizophrenia are just more likely to use marijuana.

You can absolutely do double blind studies using THC or other cannabinoids in tablet form. That's what my Masters was about, studying potential use of cannabinoids in the treatment of diabetic heart disease.

Spoiler alert: it doesn't work. I killed hundreds of poor rats for that non-result  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:38:04 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 24, 2022, 04:15:26 PMThere is a well-established correlation between erratic behavior and being Elon Musk.  Do we really need any deeper analysis?
Well, it's not like it's only him. :)
And less smart, less rich people can also be erratic and create more localized problem. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:39:12 AM
 (https://scontent.fyhu1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/283493980_3203596183185846_6203302925645736106_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=BLzZ4Z-JvqwAX_rzyRE&_nc_ht=scontent.fyhu1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8ktHEVL-KQ_UXTsOnKllxdmqkIHl3Ae3dk-N1uQYtg0Q&oe=62930DC2)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on May 25, 2022, 12:27:36 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 25, 2022, 12:27:04 AM
Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2022, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2022, 11:00:31 AMI recall reading multiple times that pot use early in life increases the risk of schizophrenia, though it's not clear whether it increases the general risk, or just accentuates the existing predisposition.  Has that link ever been discredited?

There is a well-known correlation between marijuana and schizophrenia.

But because you can't exactly do double-blind studies on marijuana, we can't necessarily attribute causation - it might be that people susceptible to schizophrenia are just more likely to use marijuana.

You can absolutely do double blind studies using THC or other cannabinoids in tablet form. That's what my Masters was about, studying potential use of cannabinoids in the treatment of diabetic heart disease.

Spoiler alert: it doesn't work. I killed hundreds of poor rats for that non-result  :(

Here is a good study from 2020 discussing the weaknesses in many of the studies and the need for further research to determine the causation issue.  Bottom line, as BB said, there is a clear correlation, some preliminary but weak evidence for causation, and loads of confounding factors.

One of my partners did a lot of work with experts in the area to help various decision makers create polices regarding use when it became legalized here.  At that time all of the evidence seemed to boil down to - its too early to tell what, if any, causal link there may be.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7442038/

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2022, 11:11:39 AM
Quote(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284183832_10209507877449677_3801111015580915509_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=EHKlviJmlS4AX9R7yOS&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8GIo51CI1ifmU5KgitMUjRaByLYsMFralR94auC1_kUg&oe=629D414F)

I'm not sure who wrote this but isn't this beautiful:

Twas' 24 days into the month of May,
When 19 beautiful children stormed through Heaven's gate.
Their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air.
They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
They were filled with such joy; they didn't know what to say.
They remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.
"Where are we," asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.
"This is heaven," declared a small boy. "We're spending the rest of eternity at God's house."
When what to their wondering eyes did appear,
But Jesus, their Savior. The children gathered near.
He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same.
Then He opened His arms and He called them one at a time by name.
And in that moment was joy, that only Heaven can bring.
Those children all flew into the arms of their King of Kings.
And as they lingered in the warmth of His great BIG embrace,
One small girl turned and looked at Jesus face to face.
And as if He could read all the questions she had,
He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of Mom and Dad."
Then He looked down on Earth, at the world far below.
He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow and woe.
Then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,
"Let My power and presence re-enter this land!
May this country be delivered from the hands of fools.
I'm taking back my nation. I'm taking back my schools!"
Then He and the children stood up without a sound.
"Come now my children let me show you around."
Excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran;
All displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can.
And I heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,
"In the midst of this darkness, I AM STILL THE LIGHT."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 01, 2022, 11:21:18 AM
Jesus Christ
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 01, 2022, 11:32:29 AM
The last sentence is written in first person. Does that mean it was posted from heaven straight to Facebook? I know that Facebook has accounts of millions of dead people, but I wasn't aware that they offer their service in the afterlife as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2022, 11:36:35 AM
To quote Red Dwarf:

Death isn't the handicap it used to be in the olden days. It doesn't screw your career up like it used to.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 11:38:29 AM
So I'm 99% sure the writer of that article meant the "fools" the country needs to be delivered from is "the left", but as read it works equally as well as being gun-loving MAGA heads...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 01, 2022, 01:30:14 PM
"Let My power and presence re-enter this land!"

One wonders what the all powerful god was waiting for
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on June 01, 2022, 02:17:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 01, 2022, 01:30:14 PM"Let My power and presence re-enter this land!"

One wonders what the all powerful god was waiting for

Maybe he's also looking for a janitor with a key to the door.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2022, 02:21:13 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2022, 02:30:18 PM
That's really something.  It's hard to think of a more effective argument against religion than that.  "stormed through Heaven's Gate"???  Truly revolting. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 02:36:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2022, 02:30:18 PMThat's really something.  It's hard to think of a more effective argument against religion than that.  "stormed through Heaven's Gate"???  Truly revolting. 

It's really hokey, but "At least they're in a better place now" has been a way of dealing with unimaginable tragedy for centuries.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on June 01, 2022, 02:53:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 02:36:50 PMIt's really hokey, but "At least they're in a better place now" has been a way of dealing with unimaginable tragedy for centuries.

Sure, but the way it is written it sounds like the killer had the right idea and the only issue was that not enough people were killed.

It's tough to interpret this as anything other than a threat after celebrating that 19 kids died, "He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of Mom and Dad."" 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 02:59:22 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 01, 2022, 02:53:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 02:36:50 PMIt's really hokey, but "At least they're in a better place now" has been a way of dealing with unimaginable tragedy for centuries.

Sure, but the way it is written it sounds like the killer had the right idea and the only issue was that not enough people were killed.

It's tough to interpret this as anything other than a threat after celebrating that 19 kids died, "He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of Mom and Dad."" 

:huh:

Like I said it's poorly written and hokey, but other than the brief and vague turn into earthly politics I only took it as an attempt at comfort.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2022, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 01, 2022, 02:53:56 PMSure, but the way it is written it sounds like the killer had the right idea and the only issue was that not enough people were killed.

It's tough to interpret this as anything other than a threat after celebrating that 19 kids died, "He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of Mom and Dad."" 

That's a very strange way to interpret it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 01, 2022, 03:49:55 PM
Why is the BIG embrace written in upper case?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 01, 2022, 03:56:14 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 01, 2022, 03:49:55 PMWhy is the BIG embrace written in upper case?

Have you ever written a screenplay?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 01, 2022, 04:00:06 PM
No, I have not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 04:09:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2022, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 01, 2022, 02:53:56 PMSure, but the way it is written it sounds like the killer had the right idea and the only issue was that not enough people were killed.

It's tough to interpret this as anything other than a threat after celebrating that 19 kids died, "He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of Mom and Dad."" 

That's a very strange way to interpret it.

I mean there's always been a certain level of tension in Christian thinking around death - that if Heaven is so great and wonderful then we really should all drink the kool-aid and get there as fast as we can!  Christian theology on the other hand is said to revere life so suicide is considered sinful, making earthly existence some kind of penance we have to go through before going to Heaven.

But the way frunk looks at it anytime you say "well they're in a better place now" you could be accused of taking the side of the shooter/cancer/drunk driver/heart disease...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on June 01, 2022, 04:24:50 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 04:09:21 PMBut the way frunk looks at it anytime you say "well they're in a better place now" you could be accused of taking the side of the shooter/cancer/drunk driver/heart disease...

It sounds very mobsterish to me, I'll "take care" of Mom and Dad.  Saying that someone is in a better place is different from having people in heaven worry about those who aren't and Jesus saying that the parent's problems will be rectified.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 04:34:53 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 01, 2022, 04:24:50 PMIt sounds very mobsterish to me, I'll "take care" of Mom and Dad.  Saying that someone is in a better place is different from having people in heaven worry about those who aren't and Jesus saying that the parent's problems will be rectified.

Context matters!

Did you really think that in that mawkish drivel that Jesus was saying he'd go murder the child's parents so they could also be in Heaven?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 01, 2022, 04:36:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 04:09:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2022, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 01, 2022, 02:53:56 PMSure, but the way it is written it sounds like the killer had the right idea and the only issue was that not enough people were killed.

It's tough to interpret this as anything other than a threat after celebrating that 19 kids died, "He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of Mom and Dad."" 

That's a very strange way to interpret it.

I mean there's always been a certain level of tension in Christian thinking around death - that if Heaven is so great and wonderful then we really should all drink the kool-aid and get there as fast as we can!  Christian theology on the other hand is said to revere life so suicide is considered sinful, making earthly existence some kind of penance we have to go through before going to Heaven.

But the way frunk looks at it anytime you say "well they're in a better place now" you could be accused of taking the side of the shooter/cancer/drunk driver/heart disease...
But that is the point - this isn't suicide, so according to that theology, and this interpretation, the killer did them all a favor.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2022, 09:13:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 02:36:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2022, 02:30:18 PMThat's really something.  It's hard to think of a more effective argument against religion than that.  "stormed through Heaven's Gate"???  Truly revolting. 

It's really hokey, but "At least they're in a better place now" has been a way of dealing with unimaginable tragedy for centuries.

Put the best possible spin on it, and it still amounts to minimizing and trivializing the reality of what happened, all in the name of making *us* feel better about it.  These kids aren't "storming" anything, they were brutally murdered.  And if we can't even accept that basic reality and deal with the real life consequences, we are truly lost.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2022, 10:38:53 PM
That's definitely not putting the best possible spin on it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 08:30:03 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2022, 10:38:53 PMThat's definitely not putting the best possible spin on it.

The ball is yours if you want to take a shot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 02, 2022, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 04:34:53 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 01, 2022, 04:24:50 PMIt sounds very mobsterish to me, I'll "take care" of Mom and Dad.  Saying that someone is in a better place is different from having people in heaven worry about those who aren't and Jesus saying that the parent's problems will be rectified.

Context matters!

Did you really think that in that mawkish drivel that Jesus was saying he'd go murder the child's parents so they could also be in Heaven?

Then they would be in a better place too. Why would Jesus leave them to suffer their loss?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 02, 2022, 09:20:21 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 02, 2022, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 04:34:53 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 01, 2022, 04:24:50 PMIt sounds very mobsterish to me, I'll "take care" of Mom and Dad.  Saying that someone is in a better place is different from having people in heaven worry about those who aren't and Jesus saying that the parent's problems will be rectified.

Context matters!

Did you really think that in that mawkish drivel that Jesus was saying he'd go murder the child's parents so they could also be in Heaven?

Then they would be in a better place too. Why would Jesus leave them to suffer their loss?

the other point to make is that, in context, why the fuck should those children believe a god who says he will take care of their parents when he just let them die?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 02, 2022, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 02, 2022, 09:20:21 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 02, 2022, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 01, 2022, 04:34:53 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 01, 2022, 04:24:50 PMIt sounds very mobsterish to me, I'll "take care" of Mom and Dad.  Saying that someone is in a better place is different from having people in heaven worry about those who aren't and Jesus saying that the parent's problems will be rectified.

Context matters!

Did you really think that in that mawkish drivel that Jesus was saying he'd go murder the child's parents so they could also be in Heaven?

Then they would be in a better place too. Why would Jesus leave them to suffer their loss?

the other point to make is that, in context, why the fuck should those children believe a god who says he will take care of their parents when he just let them die?
This kind of religion is just so fucked up. You really have to not look at it closely at all for it to look anything less then utterly horrific.

You might as well just worship Cthulu.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AM
So the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

Free will is a bitch, man.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 02, 2022, 11:29:46 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

Free will is a bitch, man.

Forget what flavour of Christian you are, but does it follow predestination?

*edit* used wrong term.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2022, 11:29:47 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285174543_5163304573706552_4824539489715185976_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=QWSmVwh5dlEAX8UOqkJ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8-AO12ZAU4Xx3qg8aiy0JoOCZPcJeuX2qQTTHp9avCKg&oe=629CE113)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wM0HWk0r/image.png)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/18403179_1458193030868160_8136633120113617013_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=ngb05iPkSPoAX_9mb_I&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_62V7TDQPwdomZF_J1HEe3pldu5VI90dkwt2QKSmMqLw&oe=62BD8533)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qqfCJprr/image.png)

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Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:37:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 02, 2022, 11:29:47 AM(https://i.postimg.cc/wM0HWk0r/image.png)

I have to agree with this one - student debt forgiveness is both terrible politics and a terrible policy.

If done as part of an overall reform of higher education with an eye to reducing costs, sure, but just a naked debt forgiveness by itself just encourages schools to keep increasing tuition.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 02, 2022, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

Free will is a bitch, man.
I guess WAD.

Still makes it a dick move.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 12:02:19 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

Free will is a bitch, man.

And what happens when the killer's free will comes up against the free will of children who prefer to live rather than be murdered? 

There is no canned philosophical response that does not collapse into incoherence or contradiction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 02, 2022, 12:20:50 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

The Fundy Christians like to have it both ways.  An all powerful god who loves you but lets bad things happen to good (and in this case innocent) people.  The Fundys always explain it away in one of two ways - First, their god's plan is a mystery that no one can understand, you just gotta have faith god knows what he is doing.  Second, and completely contrary to the first is some form of free will argument.

To add to the hypocrisy Fundy Christians pray to their god to make things happen in their lives, thank their god for the good things that happen to them, pray to their god that bad things don't happen etc - ie they seem to think their god does intervene in the world in answer to their prayers.


Bart Ehrman's God's Problem, which he wrote a while back, examines all the possible New Testament justifications for why the Christian God lets bad things happen to good people and concludes there isn't a satisfactory answer.  It is the point in his academic career when he stopped being a fundy Christian.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 02, 2022, 12:46:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

Free will is a bitch, man.
That doesn't answer. 

"Free will" does not explain why god chose to let a bunch of children get murdered. You might a well say "chicken salad is a bitch, man".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 02, 2022, 12:46:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

Free will is a bitch, man.
That doesn't answer.

"Free will" does not explain why god chose to let a bunch of children get murdered. You might a well say "chicken salad is a bitch, man".

"Why does God allow suffering" just as one phrasing gets 89 million hits on google.  It's been a topic that has been dealt with over the centuries by philosophers, theologians, and drunks in bars.  I'm afraid I can't give you an answer you'll be satisfied with in a Languish post.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 01:27:59 PM
Free will can't work as a complete explanation in any event because it can't explain why God permits natural disasters and catastrophes.  The only philosophically workable move IMO is Leibniz, but that has not proved to be very popular.  More people are familiar with Candide than the Theodicy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on June 02, 2022, 01:47:04 PM
If this is the best a perfect god can do then I want a refund on my monad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2022, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 08:30:03 AMThe ball is yours if you want to take a shot.

What Beeb said.  Though family and friends may be feeling great grief, they should be comforted by the knowledge the victims are in a better place now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 02:19:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2022, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 08:30:03 AMThe ball is yours if you want to take a shot.

What Beeb said.  Though family and friends may be feeling great grief, they should be comforted by the knowledge the victims are in a better place now.

But that was not addressed to family and friends.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 02:21:01 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 01:47:04 PMIf this is the best a perfect god can do then I want a refund on my monad.

The 20th century sure didn't do Leibniz's argument any favors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 02:21:25 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 02:19:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2022, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 08:30:03 AMThe ball is yours if you want to take a shot.

What Beeb said.  Though family and friends may be feeling great grief, they should be comforted by the knowledge the victims are in a better place now.

But that was not addressed to family and friends.

I think the feeling of grief and sorrow was felt by far more than the family and friends of those kids...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 02:21:25 PMI think the feeling of grief and sorrow was felt by far more than the family and friends of those kids...

Agreed but that's my point.
It's OK to minimize reality to comfort family because that loss is too great to bear.
The rest of us don't have that excuse.  It's just moral cowardice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2022, 02:24:35 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 02:19:51 PMBut that was not addressed to family and friends.

It wasn't addressed to anyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 02:26:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 02:21:25 PMI think the feeling of grief and sorrow was felt by far more than the family and friends of those kids...

Agreed but that's my point.
It's OK to minimize reality to comfort family because that loss is too great to bear.
The rest of us don't have that excuse.  It's just moral cowardice.

Belief in the afterlife in the face of tragedy is "moral cowardice"?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2022, 02:28:24 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 02:23:58 PMAgreed but that's my point.
It's OK to minimize reality to comfort family because that loss is too great to bear.
The rest of us don't have that excuse.  It's just moral cowardice.

Sure, your argument is that heaven doesn't exist and therefore the writing is a lie, etc.  But that is not "the best possible spin."  The best possible spin has to include God and Heaven actually existing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 02, 2022, 02:34:53 PM
It is a disturbing path of thinking. Cultish really.
Assuming gods and heaven exist, it seems to be  calling for killing kids ASAP so they get to go there.
That we've no proof they actually exist is just a little cherry on top of a already disturbing line of thought
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2022, 02:28:24 PMSure, your argument is that heaven doesn't exist and therefore the writing is a lie, etc. 

No I assume for the sake of argument ('best case') that heaven exists.  It is still perverse to react to this horrific tragedy by celebrating the "storming" of heaven by the victims. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2022, 03:13:01 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 03:02:10 PMIt is still perverse to react to this horrific tragedy by celebrating the "storming" of heaven by the victims. 

IMO my spin cribbed from Beeb was much more positive than this, so I would have to say I've made my case that yours is not the best possible spin.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2022, 03:13:01 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 03:02:10 PMIt is still perverse to react to this horrific tragedy by celebrating the "storming" of heaven by the victims. 

IMO my spin cribbed from Beeb was much more positive than this, so I would have to say I've made my case that yours is not the best possible spin.

I'll concede the point: "mawkish drivel" is a more positive spin than moral cowardice.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 02, 2022, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 01:47:04 PMIf this is the best a perfect god can do then I want a refund on my monad.

"Some would ask, how could a perfect God create a universe filled with so much that is evil. They have missed a greater conundrum: why would a perfect God create a universe at all?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 02, 2022, 04:23:19 PM
The Gnostics may have had a point
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 02, 2022, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

Free will is a bitch, man.

Can't have free will and an omniscient god.  Can's have perfect justice without an omniscient god.  So, as a Christian, which are you going to give up: free will, or perfect justice?

In any case, only a moron would think that "free will" is a gift if it means people suffer ETERNAL torture of the most horrific kind if they use their free will to believe in the 999,999,999+ gods that are not the Christian god.  The Christian god is a monster not only because it allows horrific things to happen and then blames the victims, but also because it refuses to unambiguously reveal its identity and save all of those unlucky enough to believe in some other god which is equally disinclined to actually reveal itself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 02, 2022, 05:38:25 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 02, 2022, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2022, 02:28:24 PMSure, your argument is that heaven doesn't exist and therefore the writing is a lie, etc. 

No I assume for the sake of argument ('best case') that heaven exists.  It is still perverse to react to this horrific tragedy by celebrating the "storming" of heaven by the victims. 

Not to mention the fact that not all of the nineteen kids would be "storming heaven" since some certainly died in sin and so went to hell.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on June 02, 2022, 07:42:56 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.
Maybe he waited outside with the Uvalde PD?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 02, 2022, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 02, 2022, 12:46:57 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

Free will is a bitch, man.
That doesn't answer.

"Free will" does not explain why god chose to let a bunch of children get murdered. You might a well say "chicken salad is a bitch, man".

"Why does God allow suffering" just as one phrasing gets 89 million hits on google.  It's been a topic that has been dealt with over the centuries by philosophers, theologians, and drunks in bars.  I'm afraid I can't give you an answer you'll be satisfied with in a Languish post.
Fair enough. Even with those 89 million hits, we all know there isn't any answer that will satisfy anyone who didn't start of satisfied before they considered the question.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 02, 2022, 09:41:16 PM
That's bullshit, Berkut.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 02, 2022, 09:50:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 02, 2022, 09:41:16 PMThat's bullshit, Berkut.
SHrug.

I think the bullshit is the attempt to craft a rational, reasonable, and sane concept around the idea that there can be an all powerful, all merciful god who has a plan that he has complete control over, and that results in abject pain and misery for conscious human beings.

I think it is the greatest bullshit story ever told, in fact, that has resulted in untold misery and suffering.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 10:35:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 02, 2022, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 02, 2022, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: PDH on June 02, 2022, 10:56:26 AMSo the all powerful god couldn't save the children or stop the killer, even though god knew what would happen?  Sounds like a dick move.

Free will is a bitch, man.

Can't have free will and an omniscient god.  Can's have perfect justice without an omniscient god.  So, as a Christian, which are you going to give up: free will, or perfect justice?

In any case, only a moron would think that "free will" is a gift if it means people suffer ETERNAL torture of the most horrific kind if they use their free will to believe in the 999,999,999+ gods that are not the Christian god.  The Christian god is a monster not only because it allows horrific things to happen and then blames the victims, but also because it refuses to unambiguously reveal its identity and save all of those unlucky enough to believe in some other god which is equally disinclined to actually reveal itself.

Good to know you consider me a moron G.  Good to know where I stand with you.

Bless your heart.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 03, 2022, 02:51:19 AM
Abrahamic religions got weird once they (well the one of them that existed at the time) started describing God as good and not simply as powerful.

The early God, who is not good, is actually a pretty neat personification of an uncaring universe. It is in that way much more attractive than the later version (the later version makes little sense), but of course such a God is a bit redundant.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2022, 03:25:34 AM
If one wants to indoctrinate kind behavior in people I don't see how one can do that in the framework of an indifferent or cruel god.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 03, 2022, 03:58:31 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2022, 03:25:34 AMIf one wants to indoctrinate kind behavior in people I don't see how one can do that in the framework of an indifferent or cruel god.

If that is your goal then religion is not the answer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2022, 04:10:44 AM
What is?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 03, 2022, 04:15:33 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2022, 04:10:44 AMWhat is?

The normal methods. Teaching that being nice and productive (in a broad sense, as opposed to destructive) has effects that have intrinsic value.

The Christian "this is good and this is bad because Dad said it is, and Dad will punish you if you misbehave" framework might be appropriate for small children, but it is unsuitable for older children and adults.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 03, 2022, 09:17:26 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2022, 04:10:44 AMWhat is?
Moral philosophy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 03, 2022, 09:34:21 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285244774_1646582195713273_3207533451835673053_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=uR3Wzf8YxEkAX9k3Gi4&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8bKymDnmBur_G1IRiMqSHxaTDIsQG7pRL7_MLS2oeQ1w&oe=629E345C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2022, 09:40:23 AM
Ah yes - make lung cancer great again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 03, 2022, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2022, 09:40:23 AMAh yes - make lung cancer great again.
Only commies don't smoke.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 03, 2022, 12:50:24 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 03, 2022, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2022, 09:40:23 AMAh yes - make lung cancer great again.
Only commies don't smoke.


Well, commies and all of the anti-commies that died of lung cancer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 03, 2022, 04:12:46 PM
Real Americans don't believe in that socialist claptrap about cancer.  They know that tobacco built this country, and the smooth flavor of a cigarette is the smooth flavor of freedom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 06, 2022, 05:35:14 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/173954100_571666960475446_3919854959956586184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=h4iTedvFapsAX_sK3VH&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_e_o7BQSMYdOZeYsNzKAVpq2arN9M8iKyVM08gXsOC7Q&oe=62C28F23)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 06, 2022, 06:25:45 AM
They forgot to mention that they were forced to drink at gun point :whistle:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 06, 2022, 07:31:50 AM
The NRA kool aid is almost as dangerous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 06, 2022, 08:20:58 AM
Also kinda missing that it wasn't the kool-aid that killed them, but the poison inside.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 07, 2022, 10:42:46 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 03, 2022, 04:12:46 PMReal Americans don't believe in that socialist claptrap about cancer.  They know that tobacco built this country, and the smooth flavor of a cigarette is the smooth flavor of freedom.
Tobacco, just like cotton, synonym of freedom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 07, 2022, 10:51:10 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/pdFGZqkK/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 07, 2022, 10:59:42 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 06, 2022, 05:35:14 AM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/173954100_571666960475446_3919854959956586184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=h4iTedvFapsAX_sK3VH&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_e_o7BQSMYdOZeYsNzKAVpq2arN9M8iKyVM08gXsOC7Q&oe=62C28F23)
Religion kill people.  Duly noted.   :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 07, 2022, 11:04:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 07, 2022, 10:51:10 AM(https://i.postimg.cc/pdFGZqkK/image.png)
I'm not getting anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on June 07, 2022, 11:09:45 AM
"Celebrating who you're attracted"... I guess they're right.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 07, 2022, 12:08:03 PM
So . . . no more MAGA hats, then? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 09, 2022, 11:54:25 PM
My sister and her friends are on to something big! :o

(https://i.postimg.cc/3NL1kp9b/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 10, 2022, 01:51:01 AM
But it makes it harder to run their pedophile sex ring, so it cuts both ways.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 10, 2022, 02:25:16 AM
Has nobody told these people about things called legs?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on June 10, 2022, 08:13:03 AM
Quote from: Josquius on June 10, 2022, 02:25:16 AMHas nobody told these people about things called legs?

Ebikes are cheaper and better than ever. I got an Lectric XP that I use for commuting.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 10, 2022, 08:17:09 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 10, 2022, 01:51:01 AMBut it makes it harder to run their pedophile sex ring, so it cuts both ways.
Don't forget the lizard people using the child's bodies after to harvest endochrine fluid or whatever it was.  My friend's sister firmly believes Tom Hanks drinks the blood of babies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on June 10, 2022, 09:04:03 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 10, 2022, 08:17:09 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 10, 2022, 01:51:01 AMBut it makes it harder to run their pedophile sex ring, so it cuts both ways.
Don't forget the lizard people using the child's bodies after to harvest endochrine fluid or whatever it was.  My friend's sister firmly believes Tom Hanks drinks the blood of babies.


That's just ridiculous. It's obvious that it's Tom Cruise who drinks the blood of babies. That's why he doesn't age.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 11, 2022, 03:01:03 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/286570745_1084579625806697_1163640663100662425_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DQda9N4bf0UAX-oe9hR&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8zk0JzRr6Uv1vdZuF8M7OyYH-e1xnnsHh3MduDynQawA&oe=62A965AD)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 11, 2022, 07:03:51 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on June 10, 2022, 09:04:03 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 10, 2022, 08:17:09 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 10, 2022, 01:51:01 AMBut it makes it harder to run their pedophile sex ring, so it cuts both ways.
Don't forget the lizard people using the child's bodies after to harvest endochrine fluid or whatever it was.  My friend's sister firmly believes Tom Hanks drinks the blood of babies.



That's just ridiculous. It's obvious that it's Tom Cruise who drinks the blood of babies. That's why he doesn't age.
He makes Top Gun and so is a patriot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 14, 2022, 02:36:38 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/hcJGPHgS/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 14, 2022, 02:44:00 PM
Yes we all remember when a pandemic tanked the entire global economy, sending oil prices below zero in April. Thats a surefire way to get gas prices down, but not one I would care to repeat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 14, 2022, 02:49:50 PM
As long as Uncle Joe doesn't raise the price of tater logs I'll be OK.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 14, 2022, 10:36:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/CzCqywp.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 16, 2022, 07:24:25 PM
(https://scontent.fymq3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288651730_5254641281250761_5505883474520460439_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=OvRVmyE5Od4AX_w8Fhx&tn=8rHFEnCOfDpG3Nst&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq3-1.fna&oh=00_AT9L2-sgvsWpl0gsojBh6TMALMwL-bU3odP-XJ5yF1QqvA&oe=62AFEFC6)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 17, 2022, 07:17:16 AM
Very unwise decision by the French king.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 07:52:25 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 17, 2022, 07:17:16 AMVery unwise decision by the French king.
How so?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 17, 2022, 08:05:50 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 07:52:25 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 17, 2022, 07:17:16 AMVery unwise decision by the French king.
How so?
I don't think it paid off like they'd hoped, except for a temporary weakening and humiliation for Britain.  Cost a ton of moneys.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2022, 08:19:37 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 07:52:25 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 17, 2022, 07:17:16 AMVery unwise decision by the French king.
How so?

Precipitated the financial crisis that destabilized the regime. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 08:22:53 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 17, 2022, 08:05:50 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 07:52:25 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 17, 2022, 07:17:16 AMVery unwise decision by the French king.
How so?
I don't think it paid off like they'd hoped, except for a temporary weakening and humiliation for Britain.  Cost a ton of moneys.

The hope was that it would lead to Britain, at that time France's sworn enemy, to lose their most valuable colonies, and open those colonies up to trade with France.

It did cost them a ton of money, but they could afford it, had they made some necessary reforms to their financial system. Absent those reforms, they piled about a third more debt on top of an already unsustainable debt. 

What followed was going to happen regardless of France's involvement in the Revolutionary War. Indeed, from France's perspective, the war against Britain was really just an extension of the ongoing conflict that they had lost so badly 20 years earlier. It was a chance to strike back at a moment when their enemy was weakest and vulnerable, and they took it.

It didn't fix the systemic problems within France, but I don't think anyone thought it would. I don't see it as "very unwise" really, except insofar that France at that time doing anything at all other then desperately trying to reform their own political and economic system was "very unwise". But that was not going to happen. 

In the context of the geo political system in place, I think helping the Americans was a very smart move. It was taken with pretty significant deliberation and consideration - it wasn't jumped into hastily or with any kind of silly ideas about what would be possible, I don't think.

Even in hindsight, I don't think a scenario where the Americans do not receive as much French help has a better outcome for France and the King. They are still fucked. Maybe even more fucked - maybe that prestige and public good will at the victory over the dastardly Brits held off the French Revolution a little longer. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 08:25:42 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2022, 08:19:37 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 07:52:25 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 17, 2022, 07:17:16 AMVery unwise decision by the French king.
How so?

Precipitated the financial crisis that destabilized the regime. 
That financial crisis was coming whether or not they took on another billion Livre in debt or not.

Going from 2.2 billion in debt to 3.1 billion in debt certainly did not help, but absent that extra billion, they were still fucked.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 08:28:49 AM
What I mean by "they could afford it" is that a country of their size should have been able to afford that expenditure without it leading to a crisis.

Great Britain, for example, spent a hell of a lot more in that losing war, and their entire political and economic system did not disintegrate. And Great Britain was smaller then France.

The problem was not the amount spent, the problem was their fucked up political and economic system that didn't allow the government to manage its expenses or raise money properly. And that problem was going to have severe consequences regardless of taking on yet some more debt they would never manage to repay.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2022, 08:29:58 AM
1)  There is a very significant difference between 2.2 billion and 3.1 billion - that is nearly a 50% increase.
2)   Your comments above seem be analyzing whether it was good for France.  It may have been but that is not the same as saying it was good for the King.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 08:36:44 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2022, 08:29:58 AM1)  There is a very significant difference between 2.2 billion and 3.1 billion - that is nearly a 50% increase.
2)  Your comments above seem be analyzing whether it was good for France.  It may have been but that is not the same as saying it was good for the King.
1) I don't think there was any significant difference between the two, in that both numbers were unsustainable entirely under their economic/political system, and both were perfectly sustainable had they managed to reform that system. The problem was not the number, the problem was the system.

2) The king is harder to evaluate. His position is based on a lot of different variables, and its easy to look at the economic variable in isolation, note that it got worse, and conclude that this was a mistake. What about the other variables that go into his position? His prestige, and the prestige of his nation? It was in desperate need of some kind of win, and the Revolutionary War and Treaty of Paris gave him some much needed domestic and international credibility. Was that worth the billion livre? 

Hell, I don't know. But I don't think it is obviously the case that it was not worth it, and I don't think the decision to help the Americans was clearly unwise.

If we don't use hindsight, then it made pretty obvious sense.

If we DO use hindsight, then that total hindsight tells us that Louis was fucked regardless of that decision, and it isn't entirely clear to me that it took days away from his life - it may very well have added days to his life. I think he was going to be deposed and probably executed in a revolution either way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 17, 2022, 08:49:33 AM
France's financial system, designed as it was around horrific mercantilist thinking, was in terrible shape in 1777, but still (barely) viable.  Entering the American Revolutionary War far worsened her situation, for two reasons:
1.  It pushed the debt so high that money had to be borrowed just to pay interest on the existing debt (an obviously unsustainable situation), and
2.  It exposed a lot of soldiers and officers to a completely different and apparently much more successful idea of how to organize a nation.  That made them much more likely to support major reforms, even in the face of royal vetoes.

France was actually getting to a better place in 1777.  Promotion to the noblesse de robe was giving distinguished middle-class members of the Third Estate a way to gain political power and disproved the concept that noble service to the crown came only through military service and governorships.  When it came time to swear the Tennis Court Oath, a considerable majority of the First and Second Estates were there.  The nobility wanted reform, too. 

The financial crisis caused by the explosion of the French debt after 1778 made a gradual reform inadequate and fostered a sense of crisis throughout the French government.  Had the revolution been delayed a decade or so, it might well have taken a very different form, less susceptible to the radical hijacking that historically took place.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2022, 09:04:24 AM
France had about 2 billion livres in debt when Louis XIV died.  That was a serious problem at the time, but the debt had been significantly reduced by the eve of the Seven Years War despite the intervening wars and Louis XV's less than frugal habits.  So there was precedent that France could manage - if only barely - a debt of that size.  Piling on another billion in a short period of time was a risky move, especially since Louis XVI was averse to partial defaults, an expediency his predecessor engaged in.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 17, 2022, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 17, 2022, 08:49:33 AMapparently much more successful idea of how to organize a nation. 

The "success" of the United States in the early years was very much up for debate - including for many Americans themselves. If the United States had any influence, it was in providing vocabulary and expand on concepts - not political models for nation building, which, for an overwhelming majority of French political activists, was moot - because the situation between a colony and a millenial monarchy was so alien to one another. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 10:43:50 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 17, 2022, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 17, 2022, 08:49:33 AMapparently much more successful idea of how to organize a nation. 

The "success" of the United States in the early years was very much up for debate - including for many Americans themselves. If the United States had any influence, it was in providing vocabulary and expand on concepts - not political models for nation building, which, for an overwhelming majority of French political activists, was moot - because the situation between a colony and a millenial monarchy was so alien to one another. 
"more successful" is in comparison to France.

I don't think there could be much debate, even at the time, that France in the years immediately prior to the revolution, was a disaster of an idea on "how to organize a nation".

The bar is low, but easily surpassed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2022, 10:44:51 AM
The most significant payoff for French foreign policy came in 1812 when an enlarged US (courtesy of Napoleon's canny sale of Louisiana) drew some British resources and attention from the continent during the critical moment of the Russia invasion; however, it ultimately made no difference in the outcome.  By the early 1820s the common British-US interests in Latin America led to what turned out to be a permanent British rapprochement, though one that didn't particularly harm France, given that the Anglo-French rivalry ended around the same time.

So the creation of the US brought no real tangible benefit to France other than bragging rights and a convenient recipient for the offloading of its remaining American continental claims.

The fall of Louis XVI is a historical fact, as are the fiscal troubles that destabilized the regime.  One could argue counterfactually he would have fallen anyways and that may be true. Contrary to Justice Alito and his draft, 18th century historical analysis is not an exact science permitting irrefutable proofs. But it's hard to argue with what did happen.  That Louis XVI may have been going over the cliff anyways doesn't mean tying extra weights to himself was a good idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 10:57:54 AM
My contention is that it is hard to know if they were extra weights. They might have been balloons, that just didn't matter because the weight he had already was too great to overcome regardless.

You are correct that there is no exact science, but it's just as hard to attribute what did happen correctly. Generally, I think the mistake is made that when something happens, the assumption is that whatever happened before attributed to the outcome. But there is nothing magic about preceding events that make them pre-disposed towards contributing to the outcome - after all, the outcome we know DID happen is that the King was NOT murdered before he was murdered. Maybe part of the reason he lasted as long as he did (rather then the reason of him not lasting longer) was that he helped the Americans win their war.

Finally, the claim is that the decision to help the Americans was "unwise". That, IMO, is only true if it was clear at the time of the decision that it was the wrong move. 

It's like saying it is unwise to bet $10 on a flip of the coin where I win $20 if I guess right, and then I guess wrong. It is "unwise" in hindsight, since I lost my $10, but in reality, it was a very wise bet, and I should take it again if offered - indeed, it would be unwise to not take the bet.

But fundamentally, you are right - it is almost impossible to really come to any conclusions. Certainly France (and the King) went to shit shortly afterwards.

On the other hand....hell, can't we imagine that without French help, the US fails, and the people of France do not have that "Libertie!" example, and hence do not revolt, perpetuating even longer a terribly unjust system that saw French peasants dying in droves to starvation? 

Would a France better able to survive the debt crisis actually have been better off?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 17, 2022, 11:03:16 AM
Wait. Why is a 50-50 win 20 or lose 10 wise?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on June 17, 2022, 11:37:35 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 10:57:54 AMMy contention is that it is hard to know if they were extra weights. They might have been balloons, that just didn't matter because the weight he had already was too great to overcome regardless.


The american revolution ended in 1783. The french revolution was in 1789. So even with the ~50% increase in debt the state was able to avoid reckoning for 6 more years. It seems rather counterintuitive to think that France was doomed in 1777 considering how much longer they persisted with additional debt.

Also, the "prestige" of generated for the monarchy in France through the american revolution in no way was going to offset the budget pressures. "Sure we are now insolvent and taxes will have to go way up but the king helped some of the territories of the UK break away" doesn't seem like a winning trade.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 17, 2022, 11:39:12 AM
Quote from: Josquius on June 17, 2022, 11:03:16 AMWait. Why is a 50-50 win 20 or lose 10 wise?
That's the whole point, it's wise to take a bet on a coin flip when you either win 20 or lose 10.  That said, to be pedantic, it's not necessarily wise once you factor in your utility function.  If losing 10 hurts you much more than winning 20 benefits you, then it's not a wise bet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 17, 2022, 11:37:35 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 10:57:54 AMMy contention is that it is hard to know if they were extra weights. They might have been balloons, that just didn't matter because the weight he had already was too great to overcome regardless.


The american revolution ended in 1783. The french revolution was in 1789. So even with the ~50% increase in debt the state was able to avoid reckoning for 6 more years. It seems rather counterintuitive to think that France was doomed in 1777 considering how much longer they persisted with additional debt.

Also, the "prestige" of generated for the monarchy in France through the american revolution in no way was going to offset the budget pressures. "Sure we are now insolvent and taxes will have to go way up but the king helped some of the territories of the UK break away" doesn't seem like a winning trade.
They were insolvent BECAUSE they couldn't effectively raise taxes, and that was true before they took on a bunch more debt to fight another war.

You are assuming that France could have survived had they simply decided to stop playing the continental power game altogether. Perhaps they could have, but history doesn't suggest that was much of an option, since they never did, even after their revolution.

I don't see them helping out the Americans as a isolated event, but rather as just another item in a long list of items that all came back to the continued contention between France and England that didn't end until well after the events in question.

You might as well argue about whether they should have fought the Seven Years War. In hindsight, certainly not since they lost that one rather badly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2022, 02:05:14 PM
France could fight the continental power game and it could try to build a great overseas empire, but to try to do both at the same time with the available resources was folly. 

Washington's bungling in western Pennsylvania shouldn't detract from the broader point that France was overextending herself by trying to project power into the Alleghany in the first place.   In comparison, Britain, whose financial resources were more considerable, was careful to put limits on its continental commitments, even it meant compromising the security of the ancestral holding of the dynasty.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 17, 2022, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 11:58:14 AMThey were insolvent BECAUSE they couldn't effectively raise taxes, and that was true before they took on a bunch more debt to fight another war.

You are assuming that France could have survived had they simply decided to stop playing the continental power game altogether. Perhaps they could have, but history doesn't suggest that was much of an option, since they never did, even after their revolution.

I don't see them helping out the Americans as a isolated event, but rather as just another item in a long list of items that all came back to the continued contention between France and England that didn't end until well after the events in question.

You might as well argue about whether they should have fought the Seven Years War. In hindsight, certainly not since they lost that one rather badly.

France was not insolvent in 1776.  Turgot lost his job because of political factors, not economic ones.  It was the American Revolution costs that motivated Necker to move to deficit spending, and thus precipitate the economic crisis that would eventually bring down the regime.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on June 17, 2022, 02:16:21 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 17, 2022, 11:37:35 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 10:57:54 AMMy contention is that it is hard to know if they were extra weights. They might have been balloons, that just didn't matter because the weight he had already was too great to overcome regardless.


The american revolution ended in 1783. The french revolution was in 1789. So even with the ~50% increase in debt the state was able to avoid reckoning for 6 more years. It seems rather counterintuitive to think that France was doomed in 1777 considering how much longer they persisted with additional debt.

Also, the "prestige" of generated for the monarchy in France through the american revolution in no way was going to offset the budget pressures. "Sure we are now insolvent and taxes will have to go way up but the king helped some of the territories of the UK break away" doesn't seem like a winning trade.
They were insolvent BECAUSE they couldn't effectively raise taxes, and that was true before they took on a bunch more debt to fight another war.

You are assuming that France could have survived had they simply decided to stop playing the continental power game altogether. Perhaps they could have, but history doesn't suggest that was much of an option, since they never did, even after their revolution.

I don't see them helping out the Americans as a isolated event, but rather as just another item in a long list of items that all came back to the continued contention between France and England that didn't end until well after the events in question.

You might as well argue about whether they should have fought the Seven Years War. In hindsight, certainly not since they lost that one rather badly.

regarding the point in bold, i'm not.

Whatever its limits the old regime didn't collapse until 1789 and had been playing the empire game and the continental europe game until then. Without a massive increase in debt there is every reason it could have avoided a crisis for a considerable time longer. Louis XVI probably would have enjoyed living another 5-10 years, and maybe the situation would have developed more to the monarchy's advantage with more time.

If you are facing an existential debt crisis, don't you think it is a mistake to enter a massively expensive war that, even if successful, won't help you much beyond weakening an adversary you couldn't afford to fight anyway?

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 17, 2022, 02:17:18 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on June 17, 2022, 10:24:37 AMThe "success" of the United States in the early years was very much up for debate - including for many Americans themselves. If the United States had any influence, it was in providing vocabulary and expand on concepts - not political models for nation building, which, for an overwhelming majority of French political activists, was moot - because the situation between a colony and a millenial monarchy was so alien to one another. 

The American example, though, showed that prosperity was possible even when the wealthy commoners had a voice in government.  more than anything, IMO, the French Revolution was caused by the desire of the French bourgeoisie to have the kind of voice in politics that, say, the American ones had.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 17, 2022, 04:10:54 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 08:28:49 AMWhat I mean by "they could afford it" is that a country of their size should have been able to afford that expenditure without it leading to a crisis.

Great Britain, for example, spent a hell of a lot more in that losing war, and their entire political and economic system did not disintegrate. And Great Britain was smaller then France.

Great Britain had a lot more colonies while France lost most of them in the previous war.  13 US Colonies, Canada's founding colonies, Newfoundland, African colonies, Jamaica and other Carribean territories, most of India, Ireland and Scotland.  the UK was making money from spice, the slave trade, sugar trade.

France had France, a few Carribean sugar islands and that's it.  Don't understimate how soundly beaten by Prussia was France in the 7 Years Wars.

UK may have been smaller, but it's empire was gigantic compared to what was left of France.  Had France won the 7YW and kept its empire mostly intact, the monarchy could have survived a while longer.

QuoteThe problem was not the amount spent, the problem was their fucked up political and economic system that didn't allow the government to manage its expenses or raise money properly. And that problem was going to have severe consequences regardless of taking on yet some more debt they would never manage to repay.

It was an unwise decision in restrospect.  At the time, France certainly hoped to do commerce with the US.  Which would have offset the debt incurred.

I don't think Louis XVI was opposed to any kind of reform, but at the same time, I don't think he would have willingly signed on to a Constitutional monarchy and there's no way the nobility were to accept losing their priviledges, despite what some of them attempted, or more accurately, tried to convince the King of their necessity.

By constantly refusing to tax the nobility and insitute a form of equality between classes (only the nobility could become military officers, and so many other things), the monarchy was doomed.

Militarily, France has lost its edge, and they knew it since the Austrian war of succession; they even knew what they had to do, but couldn't resort to strongarm the nobles and face another Fronde.

Anyhow.  For the debt and the spread of republican & democratic ideals in French, getting involved in the American Revolution, was, in retrospect, an unwise idea for the French monarchy.

Helping the ennemy of your ennemy in 1776 however, that's a wise idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 17, 2022, 04:33:34 PM
Helping in the American revolution was wise for France ala the nation if you're playing it like a Strategy game. They effectively gained the US as a colony sans having to pay for any admin and defence.

Empowering merchants and showing that anti monarchic democratic republics are viable in large states - less good for the ancien regime.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 17, 2022, 05:12:42 PM
Viper, you suck at history.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 17, 2022, 05:44:53 PM
Actually, the "three generations of nobility" requirement for army officers was just a jobs program.  The petty nobility couldn't afford not to work but couldn't get jobs, either. Men like Louis-Nicolas Davout came from impoverished by noble families that could not have provided for him and he had no future except the military.  And the "three generations of nobility" requirement was really only strongly observed in the cavalry and did not apply to the artillery or any of the support services.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 08:54:28 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 17, 2022, 04:10:54 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 08:28:49 AMWhat I mean by "they could afford it" is that a country of their size should have been able to afford that expenditure without it leading to a crisis.

Great Britain, for example, spent a hell of a lot more in that losing war, and their entire political and economic system did not disintegrate. And Great Britain was smaller then France.

Great Britain had a lot more colonies while France lost most of them in the previous war.  13 US Colonies, Canada's founding colonies, Newfoundland, African colonies, Jamaica and other Carribean territories, most of India, Ireland and Scotland.  the UK was making money from spice, the slave trade, sugar trade.

France had France, a few Carribean sugar islands and that's it.  Don't understimate how soundly beaten by Prussia was France in the 7 Years Wars.

UK may have been smaller, but it's empire was gigantic compared to what was left of France.  Had France won the 7YW and kept its empire mostly intact, the monarchy could have survived a while longer.
France had three or four times the population of the Great Britain in 1770.

Sorry, you are not going to convince me that GB was able to finance a war with the Americans on their own without falling apart, and France could not just HELP the Americans, and the difference was just that GB had a larger empire.

Bullshit.

20 years later France was managing to fund wars that made the American Revolution look like a spat between neighbors, and they didn't somehow find a gigantic global empire in the meantime.

The difference was that they threw out their fucked up national system and replaced it with a better one, at least better at being able to fund massive endeavors like a war.

Sending some arms and ships across the Atlantic to help out the Americans stick it to GB should have been completely doable for a nation the size of France, if it had managed to modernize its national economic system.

My point here not being that they should have done that (that seems obvious) but that the cost of helping out the US did not break France - France was already broken. Badly. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 17, 2022, 09:06:06 PM
Those little sugar islands were worth more than the whole of Canada.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on June 17, 2022, 09:16:01 PM
If only maple syrup were developed sooner.

Keep an eye out for my upcoming novel, "Syrup of the North".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 18, 2022, 01:47:36 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288889366_5216460475057628_5257065409811939705_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=wr5MW5W8qFIAX-WA07n&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9wQfxQ7A5okyNbFybwob2azA80vQpFPopJrJNrUuZ38A&oe=62B2A0B5)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/138884689_4208264999186935_6858429925400538020_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=kqQTk2QsQAcAX9ReqSi&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8xgF27C-aDW0RoKYFdJpXHzczt_AVXBo4v6thsyziFfw&oe=62D25C8B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 18, 2022, 02:17:43 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 08:54:28 PMFrance had three or four times the population of the Great Britain in 1770.

Sorry, you are not going to convince me that GB was able to finance a war with the Americans on their own without falling apart, and France could not just HELP the Americans, and the difference was just that GB had a larger empire.

Bullshit.
Great Britain was an Empire in 1776.  France was just a country with a couple of colonies.

France had already lost Northern Canada (Hudson Bay) and Acadia in 1713. They lost everything else in America in 1759.  Can't remember the date they lost India.

It's a world wide empire, not just the country.  The British were still collecting taxes and duties from most of their American colonies for part of the war.  France had zero revenue from the non existent New France and zero revenue from its non existent Indian colonies.

I'm sorry, but as long as you insist on comparing country to country instead of empires, your analysis will be flawed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 18, 2022, 02:18:34 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2022, 09:06:06 PMThose little sugar islands were worth more than the whole of Canada.
From a certain point of view.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 18, 2022, 02:34:42 AM
I guess Raz doesn't like furs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 18, 2022, 06:59:02 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 18, 2022, 02:17:43 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 17, 2022, 08:54:28 PMFrance had three or four times the population of the Great Britain in 1770.

Sorry, you are not going to convince me that GB was able to finance a war with the Americans on their own without falling apart, and France could not just HELP the Americans, and the difference was just that GB had a larger empire.

Bullshit.
Great Britain was an Empire in 1776.  France was just a country with a couple of colonies.

France had already lost Northern Canada (Hudson Bay) and Acadia in 1713. They lost everything else in America in 1759.  Can't remember the date they lost India.

It's a world wide empire, not just the country.  The British were still collecting taxes and duties from most of their American colonies for part of the war.  France had zero revenue from the non existent New France and zero revenue from its non existent Indian colonies.

I'm sorry, but as long as you insist on comparing country to country instead of empires, your analysis will be flawed.
Its a pretty simple comparison.

France is four times the size of GB, and was a continental super power. 

The fact that they could not help out the Americans without putting themselves into even more crippling debt is a indicator that the problem that eventually destroyed their government was not the debt, but the system behind it.

It's not complicated, nor is the point dependent on them having a global empire. GB was not able to finance a massive war because they raked in so much cash from their empire - they were able to do so because they had a modern, working financial system that they were able to leverage to finance their wars. France did not.

France had no more of a global empire in 1790 then they did in 1780, and they managed to engage in a series of truly massive wars that dwarfed the contribution they made to the American Revolution. Clearly the issue was not France's lack of a global empire to fund them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 18, 2022, 02:27:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 18, 2022, 02:18:34 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2022, 09:06:06 PMThose little sugar islands were worth more than the whole of Canada.
From a certain point of view.  ;)

Well, from the point of a view of the French.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 19, 2022, 11:56:42 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288623542_478465570748735_1164536946781277307_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=K9rlrkHwGvoAX_-4uzm&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9co5DhR83G6J9eh2TYc19sR65VmEzx8QNFP5dOTvVQxA&oe=62B4FA53)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 19, 2022, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 18, 2022, 02:27:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 18, 2022, 02:18:34 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2022, 09:06:06 PMThose little sugar islands were worth more than the whole of Canada.
From a certain point of view.  ;)

Well, from the point of a view of the French.
Not all of them. :)

Louis XV and his ministers thought they could reconquer Canada in another war, at about the time the American War Independence War occurred, and in the short time, the sugar islands were providing more money to the crown's treasury.  
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 19, 2022, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 18, 2022, 06:59:02 AMFrance is four times the size of GB, and was a continental super power.

The fact that they could not help out the Americans without putting themselves into even more crippling debt is a indicator that the problem that eventually destroyed their government was not the debt, but the system behind it.

It's not complicated, nor is the point dependent on them having a global empire. GB was not able to finance a massive war because they raked in so much cash from their empire - they were able to do so because they had a modern, working financial system that they were able to leverage to finance their wars. France did not.

France had no more of a global empire in 1790 then they did in 1780, and they managed to engage in a series of truly massive wars that dwarfed the contribution they made to the American Revolution. Clearly the issue was not France's lack of a global empire to fund them.


Empire vs Empire, Great Britain was much larger and had access to much more resources than France in 1776.

France did not engage in a series of truly massive wars in 1790, war came on them, and it was mostly a continental war.  France did not have to wage a war in India and in America at the same time they had to fight Frederick the Great in Europe with unreliable allies (Russia that decided to leave the war just as Prussia was getting crushed and Spain did not join until much later in the war).

As much as I will laud the courage and tenacity of Canadians, there were too few of them and not enough Indians willing to fight for all the war's duration to make a difference in North America against the combined forces for the armed colonists and the British regulars.

By the 1790s, when the Revolutionary wars happened, many things happened:
a) recruitment in the army was open to anyone and advancement was to the merit.  It gave the army better junior/mid range officers
b) prior to the Revolution, Nobles were in charge of maintaining and training the army, among other things, in exchange for the privileges.  Following Versailles' construction and most nobles moving there, there was a lot of neglect into that aspect, and French troops, at one time among the elite of European troops consistently dropped lower in quality until they were slightly below average in reload times during the Austrian wars and Seven Years wars.  Once the State took things over, the troops were regularly drilled, albeit still often underequipped at the beginning.
c) during the Austrian War of Succession, they were allied to Frederick the Great.  During the 7 Years War, they fought against him.  Don't under estimate Prussia's power at the time.  Prussia in 1759-1763 wasn't the same country as 1790-1815.  Waging a winning war were your forage on enemy lands isn't the same as waging a defensive war where the enemy forages on your lands.  Ask Ukrainians if you don't believe me.

France got into massive debt during the 7 years war (they were already massively indebted but could manage), just like England, but England got away by winning a bunch of colonies.  Colonies means you have a market where to export your finish goods, you have new cheap lands for your colonists, you have access to cheap raw natural resources (Canadian forests were used instead of the Baltic by Great Britain to supply the wood needed for its navy) , including slaves for its other colonies.  France had no more of that.  

They couldn't rely on Canada to supply them wood and furs for trade.  They couldn't rely on their African colonies to provide cheap slaves for their sugar plantations.  They couldn't rely on their Indian colonies for the commerce of luxury products that were in high demand in Europe, be it spices, jewelry, textiles, other Asian products, etc.,

They may have had more population, but they had much less source of revenues.    I'm pretty sure if you look at Liechtenstein and Luxembourg today, you'll find they have less population than Belgium but have a higher GDP.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 19, 2022, 04:21:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 19, 2022, 11:56:42 AM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288623542_478465570748735_1164536946781277307_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=K9rlrkHwGvoAX_-4uzm&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9co5DhR83G6J9eh2TYc19sR65VmEzx8QNFP5dOTvVQxA&oe=62B4FA53)
Some people think that the only thing wrong with January 6th was that it failed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 20, 2022, 04:06:55 AM
Pissing on the purpose of the thread, yet a reshare from social media which is great.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 20, 2022, 04:15:44 AM
:lol: but ... wouldn't you also consider the number of surveys send/attempted, and include them (or control for how many people normally respond/don't respond to surveys and include that in the analysis)? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 20, 2022, 05:24:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 20, 2022, 04:15:44 AM:lol: but ... wouldn't you also consider the number of surveys send/attempted, and include them (or control for how many people normally respond/don't respond to surveys and include that in the analysis)? :hmm:
I'd like to think so- only 25% of the country actually voted for brexit and all that. And I do think there should be more recognition for not caring enough to give an opinion as an opinion in its own right... But I've not seen any literature addressing this. Maybe that can be my PHD? :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 20, 2022, 11:51:19 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 19, 2022, 04:21:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 19, 2022, 11:56:42 AM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288623542_478465570748735_1164536946781277307_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=K9rlrkHwGvoAX_-4uzm&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9co5DhR83G6J9eh2TYc19sR65VmEzx8QNFP5dOTvVQxA&oe=62B4FA53)
Some people think that the only thing wrong with January 6th was that it failed.
Yeah, while at the same time jerking each other off with "ANTIFA DID IT IF IT WAS BAD!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 20, 2022, 12:01:09 PM
Dude should've been painting flames on the Bitcoin logo on his shirt instead.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 20, 2022, 12:16:30 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/SQVk1xk0/image.png)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288859399_5232670783494588_4281037130786966582_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=5uMD3KgWWTgAX9IBiwU&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT---Es5Gj0JqTGqa2LpRSn3V5RAzsaxiqtqX76U0K9K8g&oe=62B4E63D)

(Context for last picture: from an 80s(?) news clip. Man in foreground was convicted for molesting a child. Guy in background is kid's father who waited for him here and then shot him.)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 20, 2022, 02:44:27 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 18, 2022, 06:59:02 AMFrance is four times the size of GB,

Maddison project database has France at 21 million pop in 1700 and 31 million in 1820
For Great Britain it is 8.5 million in 1700 and 21 million in 1820

Britain's pop has a big surge in the early industrial revolution; still I'd say 2X is more likely 4X in 1776.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 20, 2022, 03:22:29 PM
Any way you slice it, if GB can afford to engage in the American War without breaking their society, then France should be able to help the Americans out in that war without breaking theirs, if the problem was simply financial. Surely the cost for GB to fight the American War was an order of magnitude greater then France's cost to simply help out, right. Although its not like there is any apple to apples way to compare, is there?

Of course, it was NOT simply financial. France was broken, and trying to help out the Americans is not what broke them.

Again, from 1792 through 1815 they engaged in a series of truly massive wars that dwarfed the expenditures they made for the American Revolution just a decade or so earlier. Now, it's not like those wars weren't bankrupting as well, but the sheer scale difference, IMO, makes it pretty clear that the cost of the American war was entirely sustainable by France had they had a political system that was able to leverage their nations resources more in line with what GB was able to accomplish in that timeframe, much less how they were able to leverage their resources just a decade later themselves.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 20, 2022, 03:23:53 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 20, 2022, 02:44:27 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 18, 2022, 06:59:02 AMFrance is four times the size of GB,

Maddison project database has France at 21 million pop in 1700 and 31 million in 1820
For Great Britain it is 8.5 million in 1700 and 21 million in 1820

Britain's pop has a big surge in the early industrial revolution; still I'd say 2X is more likely 4X in 1776.
I just googled each population in 1770. France was estimated at 26.4 million, and GB at 6.4 million.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 20, 2022, 06:16:41 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2022, 03:23:53 PMI just googled each population in 1770. France was estimated at 26.4 million, and GB at 6.4 million.

I think the ~6.5 million is for England & Wales. If you include Scotland then you get closer to 8 million.

This site has England + Wales + Scotland estimated at ~8.9 million in 1770: https://1841census.co.uk/1570-1750-estimated-population/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 20, 2022, 06:28:41 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2022, 03:22:29 PMAny way you slice it, if GB can afford to engage in the American War without breaking their society, then France should be able to help the Americans out in that war without breaking theirs, if the problem was simply financial. Surely the cost for GB to fight the American War was an order of magnitude greater then France's cost to simply help out, right. Although its not like there is any apple to apples way to compare, is there?

Of course, it was NOT simply financial. France was broken, and trying to help out the Americans is not what broke them.

Again, from 1792 through 1815 they engaged in a series of truly massive wars that dwarfed the expenditures they made for the American Revolution just a decade or so earlier. Now, it's not like those wars weren't bankrupting as well, but the sheer scale difference, IMO, makes it pretty clear that the cost of the American war was entirely sustainable by France had they had a political system that was able to leverage their nations resources more in line with what GB was able to accomplish in that timeframe, much less how they were able to leverage their resources just a decade later themselves.


Great Britain won the Seven Years Wars.  France lost it.

Great Britain was trying to pass on the cost of the war to its colonies, some of it rebelled.
France did not have any colonies to offset its costs.
France got out of the war with its navy in shambles and had to rebuild it.  GB still had its navy.
France fought a continental war a decade earlier, GB paid Prussia to fight on its behalf.  Prussia was no longer a threat to anyone in 1776 either.

The problem for France was the lack of a colonial empire.  Losing it broke France.  St-Pierre et Miquelon might have been great for cod fishing, but it wasn't comparable to India and what it brought Great Britain.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 20, 2022, 08:00:54 PM
The problem for France was a broken political system, not a "lack of colonial empire".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 20, 2022, 08:34:13 PM
I seem to recall France conquering most of Europe in this time period.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 20, 2022, 10:39:36 PM
France was not broken in 1775.  It was deeply in debt, but at levels it had sustained and recovered from in the past, and it was recovering again (bar the disastrous crop of 1770, which set back recovery).  The 50% increase in debt from 1777-1783 broke France, though.  Unlike the Seven Years' War, which France financed mostly through bonds, the American Revolution was financed by direct loans, since the bond market was tapped out.  The direct loans were much more costly, both directly and because the government had to provide collateral or other sureties (like handing over tax collection to the loaner).

France may have been able to survive either the Seven Years' War debt or the AWR debt, but trying to pay both broke the French financial system.  It's worth noting that France had no central bank through which to get loans or repay debts, unlike the fairly efficient British one.  Britain was able to mobilize its finances much better than France. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 20, 2022, 10:41:48 PM
It was not the lack of Empire that caused the French financial crisis.  Louis XIV vastly expanded the French Empire and still had a financial crisis.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 20, 2022, 10:45:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 20, 2022, 08:34:13 PMI seem to recall France conquering most of Europe in this time period.
You recall wrongly. 

The revolutionary wars were 1792-1802.  Napoleon became first consul in 1799.  He sold Louisiana in 1803, after the soldiers sent to reconquer Haiti, and later British territories were decimated by yellow fever.

Different political regime, different army organization, different motivations (France was really on the defensive), and war was fought, at first, mostly in Europe (Egypt and the Caribeans came later, IIRC), not everywhere in the world, so that was much less costly.

Winning wars is generally positive.  Losing them is costly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 20, 2022, 10:51:33 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 20, 2022, 10:41:48 PMIt was not the lack of Empire that caused the French financial crisis.  Louis XIV vastly expanded the French Empire and still had a financial crisis.
But France still managed to keep its head above water.  Louis XVI couldn't anymore, and then he took on more debt and didn't make much commercial gains. France did not regain new colonies in 1783, nor did it expand it trade network.

The tax base was not expanded, and the commercial trade was not expanded.  There was no way from France to recuperate its losses from the 7YW + the American Revolution without any drastic changes if it didn't have a colonial empire.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 20, 2022, 11:24:20 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 20, 2022, 10:51:33 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 20, 2022, 10:41:48 PMIt was not the lack of Empire that caused the French financial crisis.  Louis XIV vastly expanded the French Empire and still had a financial crisis.
But France still managed to keep its head above water.  Louis XVI couldn't anymore, and then he took on more debt and didn't make much commercial gains. France did not regain new colonies in 1783, nor did it expand it trade network.

The tax base was not expanded, and the commercial trade was not expanded.  There was no way from France to recuperate its losses from the 7YW + the American Revolution without any drastic changes if it didn't have a colonial empire.

But with drastic change, it was able to do so. 

The problem wasn't that they couldn't do that "drastic change" bit. If they could the debt from the American war was bearable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 21, 2022, 01:10:56 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 20, 2022, 10:45:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 20, 2022, 08:34:13 PMI seem to recall France conquering most of Europe in this time period.
You recall wrongly.

The revolutionary wars were 1792-1802.  Napoleon became first consul in 1799.  He sold Louisiana in 1803, after the soldiers sent to reconquer Haiti, and later British territories were decimated by yellow fever.

Different political regime, different army organization, different motivations (France was really on the defensive), and war was fought, at first, mostly in Europe (Egypt and the Caribeans came later, IIRC), not everywhere in the world, so that was much less costly.

Winning wars is generally positive.  Losing them is costly.

Different political regime... 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 21, 2022, 08:39:45 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 20, 2022, 03:23:53 PMI just googled each population in 1770. France was estimated at 26.4 million, and GB at 6.4 million.

The GBR number is far too low - it was higher than that in 1700.
The Maddison project uses this book as it source: Broadberry, S.N., B. Campbell, A. Klein, M. Overton and B. van Leeuwen (2015), British Economic Growth 1270-1870 Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
I have not read it but it purports to be the most recent study of population and macro indicators in pre 1850 Britain.


EDIT: The Maddison/Broadberry figures must be including Ireland in the total. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on June 21, 2022, 09:36:52 AM
I have no real care whether the number is 6 million or 10 million. My point stands either way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on June 21, 2022, 03:08:25 PM
Re: American Revolution, French fiscal policy and empire - there's a lot of nuance and nitpicks and more general points of disagreement I could go over, but, succinctly:

* The War of American Independance was perhaps the only war of the 18th century that France had properly planned. There had been a dynamic shipbuilding  programme; stocks had been  purchased well in advance. Yet, the costs ballooned out of control - considerably beyond, quid pro quo, what the Seven Years War had cost. A few historians point to the later reformations of the 1770s, which placed the "civilian" administration of the Navy (i.e., those responsible for financial control) firmly under military control (i.e., those for whom money was no object). The explanation  has some merit.

* One of the main issues of the 1780s was indeed the problem of taxation - which, itself, had little to do with mercantilism (a term that is considerably less useful than its widespread use in historical textbooks suggests). France was getting richer. That wealth, however, wasn't getting to the Treasury. To get to that wealth required negotiating the privileges of the nobility, the church, but also the Provinces and others "corporations" (political entities, not joint-stock companies). Renegotiating these privileges opened up a can of worms for the monarchy, and crystalized a lot of grievances that had been mounting throughout the 18th century, especially around seigneurial dues.

* In that regard, therefore, Berkut's point about the systemic problems of France - i.e., the issue of renegotiating privileges, is sound. It was indeed a systemic problem, with no easy answer. This wasn't an issue of "figuring out how to run a Nation". Framing it as such is half-anachronistic. No one in the 18th century thought of Crowns, or Kingdoms, as tabula rasae that could be reorganized. Yet, the political transformations of the 18th century (shorthand: "Enlightenment") increasingly pushed people in that direction. The American example was but one of many: European reformers looked with great interest to Poland and Corsica, for instance, as worthwile thought experiment (along  with those drawn from Ancient Rome and Greece). Again, the American "model" was quite limited - and the prosperity of American merchants was quite relative, compared to the wealth of Caribbean planters (and French Caribbean planters) or even, compared to the wealth of the richest French merchants. It was nothing that inspiring. What the American case offered was a set of interesting political concepts to play

* It is indubitable that it is the immediate pressures of the War of American Independance that made the issue one needed to be dealt with the utmost urgency. Historically, French kings were quite able to play one region's privilege against another. Extract taxes and concessions from one region, and use troops to crush uprisings in an other. This was no longer possible in the climate of the 18th century. We could argue whether such a strategy could have worked, if the pressures of the War of American Independance had been managed over longer periods of time, or had been lessened by lower costs.

* Because it's an issue over short-term, and long-term debt and taxation, I find it difficult (and quite artificial) to claim it's either strictly a political or strictly an economic issue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 21, 2022, 04:05:51 PM
One of the problems with mercantilism as a conceptual historical label is that it means different things at different times.  In the mid-20th century and in some present day historical and policy arguments, it is used as a synonym for trade protection; in the late 19th century it roughly referred to policies perceived as "cheating" the "rules of the game" of the international gold standard, and in 17th/18th century it refers roughly to a set of policies and practices that has no direct present day complement but could probably best analogized to what we would call monetary policy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 21, 2022, 04:06:59 PM
I always just took mercantalism to mean the belief in there being a finite amount of wealth and ensuring your control over the biggest slice. Not really considering that more wealth could be created.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 21, 2022, 04:59:37 PM
Quote from: Josquius on June 21, 2022, 04:06:59 PMI always just took mercantalism to mean the belief in there being a finite amount of wealth  . . . Not really considering that more wealth could be created.

That's probably closer to the physiocratic view, which was the original anti-mercantalist position.  The physiocrats believed that agriculture was the sole source of wealth and thus wealth could only be created by putting more land under the plow or improving farming techniques.

It would be closer to say that mercantilism is the belief that there is a finite amount of money that exists at any given time, along with an understanding that a dynamic commercial economy requires sufficient access to money to facilitate trade.  It is an early modern understanding of what we would understand as the need to balance money supply with money demand, but in a proto-capitalist context where most adults were still engaged in subsistence agriculture and economic relations were only monetized to a limited extent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 21, 2022, 06:49:10 PM
(https://scontent.fymq3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/289100745_564330008634121_7134434283046593747_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=N-ZMHfOQJv0AX_i4f-c&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq3-1.fna&oh=00_AT-mNRFMe85OEMQBne9dfIEiCYtGApZpD9hbpxXJcGuwPQ&oe=62B69B95)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 21, 2022, 07:44:51 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 28, 2022, 06:16:48 PM
(https://i.redd.it/7lpmnx2rqe891.jpg)

He might have been confusing the UK with all of Europe when it comes to weather ;) :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 28, 2022, 07:31:36 PM
Gas station coffee is getting pretty damn good.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 28, 2022, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 28, 2022, 06:16:48 PM(https://i.redd.it/7lpmnx2rqe891.jpg)

He might have been confusing the UK with all of Europe when it comes to weather ;) :P

Or everywhere that's not Iberia/Italy/Greece. :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 28, 2022, 11:27:02 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 28, 2022, 08:23:29 PMOr everywhere that's not Iberia/Italy/Greece. :contract:

Well to be fair the weather in an incredibly large part of America is pretty shitty. We have deserts and other places with brutal brutal winters (and if you live in a place like Oklahoma you get those along with brutal summers...and tornadoes).

So you could say the same, it sucks shit except for California and Florida and so forth.

Anyway why was that guy's twitter thing scratched out? Not exactly radical takes there. Or is that just Saagar from Breaking Points? He has his picture there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 29, 2022, 01:34:04 AM
On most of it I disagree but a discussion can be had.
But European food worse than American? 😂
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 29, 2022, 01:38:38 AM
Ok, that post is just a weak ass troll, desperately trying to push buttons.

Though I don't doubt people like that exist out in the wild.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 29, 2022, 01:54:48 AM
The UK has great weather I tell you  :showoff:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 29, 2022, 02:00:52 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 29, 2022, 01:54:48 AMThe UK has great weather I tell you  :showoff:


Huh, I guess Stockholm syndrome works on the national level too.


:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on June 29, 2022, 02:24:16 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 29, 2022, 02:00:52 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 29, 2022, 01:54:48 AMThe UK has great weather I tell you  :showoff:


Huh, I guess Stockholm syndrome works on the national level too.


:P

You don't like wearing layers in summer?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 29, 2022, 03:19:17 AM
Quote from: Josquius on June 29, 2022, 01:34:04 AMOn most of it I disagree but a discussion can be had.
But European food worse than American? 😂

We both have the same stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 29, 2022, 04:15:12 AM
That guy was clearly and blatantly trolling. In another post he said that the UK was the only place in Europe where you could get a decent meal, or somesuch. Obviously trying to push people's buttons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2022, 07:12:19 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 29, 2022, 03:19:17 AM
Quote from: Josquius on June 29, 2022, 01:34:04 AMOn most of it I disagree but a discussion can be had.
But European food worse than American? 😂

We both have the same stuff.

There are still towns in Europe that don't have a McDonads.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 29, 2022, 07:14:48 AM
So?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2022, 07:17:13 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 29, 2022, 07:14:48 AMSo?

So your comment is ill informed
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 29, 2022, 07:22:30 AM
I was of course talking about what is available in cities. Besides, I am sure they sell ground beef and buns in almost every supermarket.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 29, 2022, 08:49:59 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 28, 2022, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 28, 2022, 06:16:48 PM(https://i.redd.it/7lpmnx2rqe891.jpg)

He might have been confusing the UK with all of Europe when it comes to weather ;) :P

Or everywhere that's not Iberia/Italy/Greece. :contract:
Southern France has a nice climate.  Northern France is quite temperate too and is warmer than north-east US.
Britanny is a vacation sport.  The Alps and the Pyrenées areas are cold, but they offer better ski opportunities that Colorado.

Can't say anything of Eastern Europe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2022, 08:52:01 AM
Eddie, I am wondering how sure you are that all cities in the US have exactly the same food available in all of Europe.  You may be surprised at what foods you discover if you ever left the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on June 29, 2022, 08:53:57 AM
Quote from: viper37 on June 29, 2022, 08:49:59 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 28, 2022, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 28, 2022, 06:16:48 PM(https://i.redd.it/7lpmnx2rqe891.jpg)

He might have been confusing the UK with all of Europe when it comes to weather ;) :P

Or everywhere that's not Iberia/Italy/Greece. :contract:
Southern France has a nice climate.  Northern France is quite temperate too and is warmer than north-east US.
Britanny is a vacation sport.  The Alps and the Pyrenées areas are cold, but they offer better ski opportunities that Colorado.

Can't say anything of Eastern Europe.

The Dalmatian coast would be my pick.  Montenegro would be a close second.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on June 29, 2022, 09:52:56 AM
We definitely don't have the same food, either in supermarkets or in restaurants.

Taste is relative, and one is always going to prefer the food they grew up with, but to say NA = EU when it comes to food access, quality or variety is simply wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2022, 11:27:56 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 29, 2022, 03:19:17 AM
Quote from: Josquius on June 29, 2022, 01:34:04 AMOn most of it I disagree but a discussion can be had.
But European food worse than American? 😂

We both have the same stuff.

I am sure you can find the same stuff someplace in Europe and America if you look hard enough. But we are talking about what is generally available and the laws about food are also pretty different between Euroland and America.

Here we eat beef, chicken, and pork products almost exclusively when it comes to meat and in very set ways. In Europe, thanks to centuries of famines and starvation condition in the pre-industrial world, they have traditions of eating a huge variety of meat in a huge variety of ways.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 29, 2022, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 29, 2022, 01:54:48 AMThe UK has great weather I tell you  :showoff:

I remember reading a passage somewhere stating factually that England has the best climate in the world. This was IIRC a victorian thing, something authoritative... a text book or an encyclopedia. The argument was that it was great for farming and the crops (so awesome), and that the weather is part of what created the (enterprising, superior) national character of the English which inevitably resulted in the dominance of the British Empire. QED.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2022, 11:35:19 AM
The stereotypical southern English climate would seem to me to be great for farming. Never huge storms or hail or something that might destroy crops. Never huge droughts. Just a steady stream of gray drizzle. Presuming nothing you are growing requires that much sun.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 29, 2022, 01:23:01 PM
I do think there's something to the British climate being particularly great for agriculture - the Netherlands, with a similar albeit damper climate, is one of the world's leading agricultural nations (for its size) after all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 30, 2022, 01:26:55 AM
Quote from: Jacob on June 29, 2022, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 29, 2022, 01:54:48 AMThe UK has great weather I tell you  :showoff:

I remember reading a passage somewhere stating factually that England has the best climate in the world. This was IIRC a victorian thing, something authoritative... a text book or an encyclopedia. The argument was that it was great for farming and the crops (so awesome), and that the weather is part of what created the (enterprising, superior) national character of the English which inevitably resulted in the dominance of the British Empire. QED.

I have a 1901 school geography textbook with a lot of stuff like that in it. Here's what it has to say on the Danes :

"The Danes, like the Norwegians and Swedes, belong to the Scandinavian branch of the Teutonic race. They are yellow-haired, blue-eyed, and of middling stature. They are very independent in feeling and manners; well educated, and of a "surprising gaiety." They are also, with the Swiss, the most thrifty people in Europe."

The book is nearly 600 pages long and is full of similar gems  :cool:

"Thrifty" is just about the highest compliment in the book. The only thing better is to be considered on a par with the English/British.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 30, 2022, 01:44:22 AM
I also have an 1824 geography textbook written by an American professor (a 1970s reprint).

These old geography books are very interesting and fun reads; but they also give considerable insight into how people thought about other countries and peoples back in those days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 30, 2022, 02:00:21 AM
Midling stature? Were early 1900s English people taller then now, or were Nordic people shorter? Because they be giants now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 30, 2022, 02:35:58 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 30, 2022, 01:26:55 AMI have a 1901 school geography textbook with a lot of stuff like that in it. Here's what it has to say on the Danes :

"The Danes, like the Norwegians and Swedes, belong to the Scandinavian branch of the Teutonic race. They are yellow-haired, blue-eyed, and of middling stature. They are very independent in feeling and manners; well educated, and of a "surprising gaiety." They are also, with the Swiss, the most thrifty people in Europe."

The book is nearly 600 pages long and is full of similar gems  :cool:

"Thrifty" is just about the highest compliment in the book. The only thing better is to be considered on a par with the English/British.


I need this book. It sounds wonderful.


Quote from: HVC on June 30, 2022, 02:00:21 AMMidling stature? Were early 1900s English people taller then now, or were Nordic people shorter? Because they be giants now.

They are? :unsure:
In my experience Scandinavians are pretty similar in stature to Brits.
For giants go to holland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 30, 2022, 04:36:31 AM
I also have some old textbooks, mostly from the early XXth century, and perusing them is certainly a blast, particulary the ones about geography and history. Also, seeing the Ottoman Empire being refered to in the present will never cease to puzzle me.  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on June 30, 2022, 09:00:27 AM
Back in Ukraine, I was taking a geography class in school, but we had to find our own maps, and back then and in Ukraine that was not so simple.  My grandmother offered me her maps from her school days.  I remember liking those maps a lot more than the others, because Ukraine had a much more simple geometric shape to it.  Those maps were from 1930ies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 30, 2022, 09:03:33 AM
Quote from: Josquius on June 30, 2022, 02:35:58 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 30, 2022, 02:00:21 AMMidling stature? Were early 1900s English people taller then now, or were Nordic people shorter? Because they be giants now.

They are? :unsure:
In my experience Scandinavians are pretty similar in stature to Brits.
For giants go to holland.

Only scandies I've met have been tall. Not as tall as the Dutch freaks I've met, but still :D . Although my sample size isn't that large.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on June 30, 2022, 09:05:11 AM
The scandies I've met haven't been of the huge variety. Now, the Balkans, that is a land of giants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 30, 2022, 09:08:21 AM
I've worked with 20 or so Albanians. Either over 6' or under 5'5, skewing about 60 % to the tall side. People of extremes lol.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 09:09:33 AM
Quote from: The Larch on June 30, 2022, 04:36:31 AMI also have some old textbooks, mostly from the early XXth century, and perusing them is certainly a blast, particulary the ones about geography and history. Also, seeing the Ottoman Empire being refered to in the present will never cease to puzzle me.  :lol:

I had an even more amusing time when, ion the late 1990s, I had a middle school (12-year-olds) class prepare an imaginary court case to try Lee Harvey Oswald.  We assumed that he had not been killed by Jack Ruby.  The whole idea was to teach them how to do research, how to prepare arguments, etc.

So, this being pre-Wikipedia, we went to the library to start out with the encyclopedia to give us a sense of where to research.  Alas, this merely confused my students, since, in the encyclopedia the library had, JFK was still the president!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 30, 2022, 09:45:14 AM
Sorry for bringing this thread briefly back on topic. :P

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/290273097_404160511680224_5336047790045431110_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=SQW5qdE3xNsAX87nu-l&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-dhs8rio7v757cBsMKh66RDyL7ZOU8DE3-Sr8yn-oN3Q&oe=62C225C5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on June 30, 2022, 09:47:46 AM
Nice that the included Jews as white people. Very progressive of them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 10:01:27 AM
The problem with lists like the "White Supremacy" one is that nearly every person in the world has at least one warning sign of "white supremacy."  If you don't have "no criminal record" then you surely have "distrusts the government."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 30, 2022, 10:20:05 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 29, 2022, 09:52:56 AMWe definitely don't have the same food, either in supermarkets or in restaurants.

Taste is relative, and one is always going to prefer the food they grew up with, but to say NA = EU when it comes to food access, quality or variety is simply wrong.
How do you rate Quebec vs France vs BC on this?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on June 30, 2022, 10:26:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 10:01:27 AMThe problem with lists like the "White Supremacy" one is that nearly every person in the world has at least one warning sign of "white supremacy."  If you don't have "no criminal record" then you surely have "distrusts the government."
1,2,5,6,7,8.  I fit the bill! :P

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 30, 2022, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 30, 2022, 09:47:46 AMNice that the included Jews as white people. Very progressive of them.

And Buddhists, Hindus, Satanists... pretty much all non-Muslim religions.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on June 30, 2022, 02:20:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 30, 2022, 09:45:14 AMSorry for bringing this thread briefly back on topic. :P

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/290273097_404160511680224_5336047790045431110_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=SQW5qdE3xNsAX87nu-l&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-dhs8rio7v757cBsMKh66RDyL7ZOU8DE3-Sr8yn-oN3Q&oe=62C225C5)
Why show Jerry?  He doesn't have a job, and likes the government.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 30, 2022, 02:31:33 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 30, 2022, 09:47:46 AMNice that the included Jews as white people. Very progressive of them.

I noticed that too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on June 30, 2022, 02:58:05 PM
Only Reform Jews, though. Orthodox and Conservative Jews generally consider there to have been no Jewish temples since the destruction of the Second Temple by the Romans in 70 CE.

Orthodox and Conservative Jews generally call their house of worship a synagogue or shul.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 03:19:29 PM
Mormons attend temple.  As Jake notes, Jews generally do not.  Some British lawyers do as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 30, 2022, 04:39:48 PM
Huh. I always thought temple was just a translation of synagogue that Americans used to avoid foreign sounding words.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on June 30, 2022, 04:39:48 PMHuh. I always thought temple was just a translation of synagogue that Americans used to avoid foreign sounding words.

That's not the first time your condescending attitude has led you to have silly beliefs about the US.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 30, 2022, 05:14:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on June 30, 2022, 04:39:48 PMHuh. I always thought temple was just a translation of synagogue that Americans used to avoid foreign sounding words.

That's not the first time your condescending attitude has led you to have silly beliefs about the US.
.


"condescending"? :blink:

I've only heard this on American media. Never hear it in the UK.
Logical guess that it's a language difference rather than a Jew difference. Interesting to find out otherwise.

Likewise I find many Swiss do have this as a language difference. They get all weird when you call a protestant church a church, to them it's a temple.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2022, 09:05:39 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 03:19:29 PMMormons attend temple.  As Jake notes, Jews generally do not.  Some British lawyers do as well.

Temple and Church both exist in Mormonism. You have to be worthy and meet all these requirements to go to the Temple and there are only a limited number of them, you may have to travel a long way to get to one. Mormons go to Church for Sunday services and Temples for their weird ceremony stuff.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on July 01, 2022, 01:39:24 AM
Wouldn't going to the temple include buddhists, hindus and other eastern religions?

It seems more like a deliberate exclusion of Muslims than an inclusion of Jews.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 01, 2022, 01:58:43 AM
The others are too tanned or asian, which is why I assumed Jewish people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 01, 2022, 01:59:42 AM
Plus they are quite a bit out of the orbit of Trumpist memesters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 01, 2022, 12:44:10 PM
Quote from: Josquius on June 30, 2022, 05:14:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on June 30, 2022, 04:39:48 PMHuh. I always thought temple was just a translation of synagogue that Americans used to avoid foreign sounding words.

That's not the first time your condescending attitude has led you to have silly beliefs about the US.
.


"condescending"? :blink:

I've only heard this on American media. Never hear it in the UK.
Logical guess that it's a language difference rather than a Jew difference. Interesting to find out otherwise.

Likewise I find many Swiss do have this as a language difference. They get all weird when you call a protestant church a church, to them it's a temple.
You are the least self-aware poster on Languish.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 01, 2022, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2022, 12:44:10 PMYou are the least self-aware poster on Languish.

The bizzare out of nowhere insults keep coming. Cute to see how upset you are at the idea someone possibly might be hurting your flags feelings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 01, 2022, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2022, 12:44:10 PMYou are the least self-aware poster on Languish.

The bizzare out of nowhere insults keep coming. Cute to see how upset you are at the idea someone possibly might be hurting your flags feelings.

First Rule of Holes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 01, 2022, 01:39:01 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 01, 2022, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2022, 12:44:10 PMYou are the least self-aware poster on Languish.

The bizzare out of nowhere insults keep coming. Cute to see how upset you are at the idea someone possibly might be hurting your flags feelings.

You are such a dumpster fire that even your avatar is smoking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 01, 2022, 01:42:56 PM
Okay, calm down, kids.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 01, 2022, 02:16:20 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 01, 2022, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2022, 12:44:10 PMYou are the least self-aware poster on Languish.

The bizzare out of nowhere insults keep coming. Cute to see how upset you are at the idea someone possibly might be hurting your flags feelings.

First Rule of Holes.
There is no hole 😂
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 01, 2022, 02:16:20 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 01, 2022, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2022, 12:44:10 PMYou are the least self-aware poster on Languish.

The bizzare out of nowhere insults keep coming. Cute to see how upset you are at the idea someone possibly might be hurting your flags feelings.

First Rule of Holes.
There is no hole 😂

First Rule of Holes :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 01, 2022, 10:57:05 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 01, 2022, 02:16:20 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 01, 2022, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 01, 2022, 12:44:10 PMYou are the least self-aware poster on Languish.

The bizzare out of nowhere insults keep coming. Cute to see how upset you are at the idea someone possibly might be hurting your flags feelings.

First Rule of Holes.
There is no hole 😂

First Rule of Holes :contract:

Is neither first, nor a rule, nor holely?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 01, 2022, 11:10:50 PM
Definitely unholy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on July 02, 2022, 05:56:46 AM
If you dig abig enough hole, eventually you have no hole at all.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 02, 2022, 09:20:09 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 02, 2022, 05:56:46 AMIf you dig abig enough hole, eventually you have no hole at all.

But then you have an abyss, which you can stare into.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on July 02, 2022, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 10:01:27 AMThe problem with lists like the "White Supremacy" one is that nearly every person in the world has at least one warning sign of "white supremacy."  If you don't have "no criminal record" then you surely have "distrusts the government."
You forgot "critical thinking" "Tells it like it is" and "doesn't care about your opinion, snowflake!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 02, 2022, 09:34:21 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 02, 2022, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 10:01:27 AMThe problem with lists like the "White Supremacy" one is that nearly every person in the world has at least one warning sign of "white supremacy."  If you don't have "no criminal record" then you surely have "distrusts the government."
You forgot "critical thinking" "Tells it like it is" and "doesn't care about your opinion, snowflake!"


And ou forgot "loves to 'trigger the libs.'"  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 02, 2022, 11:27:06 AM
I think they forgot a lot of things in that list, and probably included quite a few irrelevant items.  To be honest, whoever put it together seems to have done a pretty poor job identifying the warning signs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 02, 2022, 11:34:00 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/226428168_10158539337348019_8140653432285087857_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=7WNYIEBK4B0AX9C5gAr&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-7IUFePxogw4pLTkxdHbALm3y8ME8LSjGosfLrCj7fLA&oe=62C4EDBB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2022, 12:35:35 PM
All white privilege means is you put up with less shit than non-white people. Not sure why that is such an outrageous concept.

And it is non-transferable :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 02, 2022, 01:32:49 PM
Sells white privilege card, immediately gets pulled over by police.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 02, 2022, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 01:38:23 PMFirst Rule of Holes.

If any of us followed that, languish would be finished.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on July 03, 2022, 10:20:27 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 02, 2022, 09:34:21 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 02, 2022, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 10:01:27 AMThe problem with lists like the "White Supremacy" one is that nearly every person in the world has at least one warning sign of "white supremacy."  If you don't have "no criminal record" then you surely have "distrusts the government."
You forgot "critical thinking" "Tells it like it is" and "doesn't care about your opinion, snowflake!"


And ou forgot "loves to 'trigger the libs.'"  :P
The only thing a lot of the faux-conservatives care about these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 18, 2022, 12:19:24 AM
(https://i.redd.it/8vtkw6z9j5c91.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2022, 01:50:27 AM
Smells like bullshit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 18, 2022, 03:02:58 AM
Delivery drivers getting mugged isn't that unheard of.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2022, 03:40:47 AM
And cops are never mugged, ergo pizza delivery is much more dangerous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 18, 2022, 03:57:35 AM
If you just type into Google pretty easy to see articles with source considerations (tiktok meme linking to i think a usatoday article). I only looked briefly so I've no idea what to make of it
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 18, 2022, 03:57:50 AM
QuoteThe Thin Bread Line: Why Being a Delivery Driver is More Dangerous Than Being a Cop

A recent Tiktok has gained some traction pointing out that being a delivery driver is actually more dangerous than being a police officer. It features a Papa John's delivery driver getting ready for work, ironically steeling up for the dangers at hand.

The tiktok seems to pull statistics from this reddit post, which further pulls from this USA Today article citing statistics from 2016 Bureau of Labor reports.

These reports say that you're more likely to die on the job as a delivery driver (24.7 annual deaths per 100k workers) than as a police officer (14.6 annual deaths per 100k workers). On the USA today list of the 25 most dangerous jobs in America, working in law enforcement is only number 14. The most dangerous is logging jobs.

A lot of the reddit users on that post point out that the myths of the dangers of police work are statistically untrue. In 2018 for example, of the 687,100, working police and sheriff officers there were only 108 fatal work injuries.Meanwhile, deaths by police fire is on an upward trend year over year with deaths by police in 2018 totalling 996.

Checking the Bureau of Labor's statistics in 2019 against the statistics presented by USA Today also confirms these trends. According to the Bureau's website, of the 5,553 total workplace fatalities in America, delivery drivers made up 1,005 of them.

Furthermore, cop deaths are actually going down year over year. According to FBI statistics in 2019 there were only 89 line of duty deaths. Of these, 48 officers died as a result of felonious acts, and 41 officers died in accidents.

Why delivery drivers have such a high death rate isn't entirely clear, though it seems it can't just be chalked up to car accidents. According to a report by Vice in 2015, there is actually significant occurrences of man-on-pizzaman violence throughout the country.

There are further reports cited throughout the Vice article. For something that for many feels like a joke, anecdotally and statistically analysis unpacks a cultural misunderstanding here. Delivery is a dangerous profession.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 18, 2022, 05:29:26 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2022, 03:40:47 AMAnd cops are never mugged, ergo pizza delivery is much more dangerous.

They typically don't have guns and do have a bit of cash on them, so a bit more attractive as a target.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 18, 2022, 05:37:02 AM
I approve.

I don't live next to a busy road, but if I did...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 18, 2022, 05:38:00 AM
Which of them have more sex on the job?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 18, 2022, 06:55:57 AM
If I made a career decision solely based on personal safety, then I would choose police officer over pizza delivery guy. Especially in the US where police officers are not obliged to help people who are being killed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on July 18, 2022, 07:27:59 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 18, 2022, 06:55:57 AMIf I made a career decision solely based on personal safety, then I would choose police officer over pizza delivery guy. Especially in the US where police officers are not obliged to help people who are being killed.

Yesterday's report about the recent school shooing, said close to 400 showed up at the school, most presumably armed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 18, 2022, 08:17:27 AM
Say what you will, but at least all 400 of these cops came home to their families that night.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 18, 2022, 09:00:36 AM
Quote from: mongers on July 18, 2022, 07:27:59 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 18, 2022, 06:55:57 AMIf I made a career decision solely based on personal safety, then I would choose police officer over pizza delivery guy. Especially in the US where police officers are not obliged to help people who are being killed.

Yesterday's report about the recent school shooing, said close to 400 showed up at the school, most presumably armed.

That's a lot of people waiting for the shooter to run out of bullets.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Iormlund on July 18, 2022, 12:27:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 18, 2022, 08:17:27 AMSay what you will, but at least all 400 of these cops came home to their families that night.

Well, except the one whose wife -- a teacher at the school -- was left to bleed out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 20, 2022, 10:49:51 AM
The workplace death study is nice for raw numbers, but so would think the means of death is pretty important too.  Not many loggers being directly murdered by another person.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 11:54:33 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 20, 2022, 10:49:51 AMThe workplace death study is nice for raw numbers, but so would think the means of death is pretty important too.  Not many loggers being directly murdered by another person.

Could you lay out the reasoning for that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 11:55:23 AM
Also, overview of causes of US police officer deaths: https://nleomf.org/memorial/facts-figures/officer-fatality-data/causes-of-law-enforcement-deaths/
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 20, 2022, 12:00:40 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 11:54:33 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 20, 2022, 10:49:51 AMThe workplace death study is nice for raw numbers, but so would think the means of death is pretty important too.  Not many loggers being directly murdered by another person.

Could you lay out the reasoning for that?

I think the factor of being killed/murdered by another human is a significant differentiating factor than being squished by a falling tree?

If all one cares about is analyzing "how likely are you to die in this job?", then sure, that's fine.  But I think "how likely are you to be murdered in this job?" is a much more interesting question.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 20, 2022, 12:00:40 PMI think the factor of being killed/murdered by another human is a significant differentiating factor than being squished by a falling tree?

If all one cares about is analyzing "how likely are you to die in this job?", then sure, that's fine.

I mean sure, it's a differentiating factor... but what's the significance of the difference? When you're dead you're dead, and presumably the families and friends are going to miss the departed equally?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 20, 2022, 12:11:34 PM
Yeah I don't get the difference either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on July 20, 2022, 12:18:22 PM
Well, if ya'll don't see it the same way...then probably nothing I can do to help that.

I don't dispute the "if you're dead you're dead...families still miss/grieve" points...but for me, it is hard to think that loved ones would not look at the grieving process differently if their loved one was killed by a psycho in a clown suit as opposed to dying in a car accident.

But...to at least tie it back to the spark of the discussion (the play on the thin blue line flag/meme and delivery drivers)...I think we all know that the emotional appeal from said memes in both cases is deaths by violence and murder...not police officers/delivery drivers dying in car accidents, alcohol abuse, or heart disease.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 20, 2022, 12:43:34 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 20, 2022, 12:18:22 PMWell, if ya'll don't see it the same way...then probably nothing I can do to help that.

I don't dispute the "if you're dead you're dead...families still miss/grieve" points...but for me, it is hard to think that loved ones would not look at the grieving process differently if their loved one was killed by a psycho in a clown suit as opposed to dying in a car accident.

But...to at least tie it back to the spark of the discussion (the play on the thin blue line flag/meme and delivery drivers)...I think we all know that the emotional appeal from said memes in both cases is deaths by violence and murder...not police officers/delivery drivers dying in car accidents, alcohol abuse, or heart disease.

I think they do look at it differently.  Police officers accept that their jobs include dealing with dangerous situations - that is part of what they are supposed to deal with.  Not so for industrial workers.  The death of someone who goes off to work without accepting that they would be put into a dangerous situation is very hard for a grieving family to process.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on July 20, 2022, 12:45:48 PM
I agree with Tonitrus. The difference is clearly political. Police officers get *a lot* more political traction from how they portray the danger of their profession, which they in turn use to justify their recourse to force (in select cases, as has been amply remarked). Bringing up the likeliness of delivery people being shot undermines that argument - unless one started to argue that delivery people should be allowed to preemptively shoot people if they felt threatened.

And, in more general terms, death from gunfire / assault are used politically to indict, or to assess "society" as a whole.

Meanwhile, accidental death tend to indict an industry, or individual behavior. Loggers can make an argument for better working conditions in their industry. Other people can point to individual failures (which I have seen many times to brush aside workplace injuries - "he wasn't wearing the appropriate gear"). It's harder to weave a political argument that involves the explosive 2nd amendment, or that would make non-loggers immediately included in their fight.

So yes, when you're dead, you're dead. But not all deaths have the same political traction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 12:49:15 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 20, 2022, 12:45:48 PMSo yes, when you're dead, you're dead. But not all deaths have the same political traction.

And the salient question - which I think you're getting at - is whether we should buy into the political traction US police has established around the risks warrior cops face... or not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 20, 2022, 12:51:54 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 12:49:15 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on July 20, 2022, 12:45:48 PMSo yes, when you're dead, you're dead. But not all deaths have the same political traction.

And the salient question - which I think you're getting at - is whether we should buy into the political traction US police has established around the risks warrior cops face... or not.

Is it buy into or just recognize how it is being used politically?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 20, 2022, 12:53:33 PM
Any delivery driver who doesn't understand that driving a lot increases the risk of traffic accidents, even fatal ones, probably doesn't have the mental capacity to choose between driving and policing.

It is unsurprising to me that jobs involving a lot of driving or flying have a higher death toll than policing.  Hell, firefighters are much more likely to die on the way to a fire than in a fire.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 01:05:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 20, 2022, 12:51:54 PMIs it buy into or just recognize how it is being used politically?

Both, I think? Step one is recognizing that it's being used. Step two is deciding whether you think that framing is appropriate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 20, 2022, 01:20:44 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 20, 2022, 12:53:33 PMAny delivery driver who doesn't understand that driving a lot increases the risk of traffic accidents, even fatal ones, probably doesn't have the mental capacity to choose between driving and policing.

It is unsurprising to me that jobs involving a lot of driving or flying have a higher death toll than policing.  Hell, firefighters are much more likely to die on the way to a fire than in a fire.

I am surprised that anyone with the mental capacity to choose between policing and driving would engage in such a simplistic causal analysis. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 20, 2022, 02:40:11 PM
Not sure why anyone in the US would choose to be a delivery driver over a cop. A cop's job is safer, pays more and requires what, 6 months of training?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 03:51:13 PM
So I started checking on Twitter since Putin started his war against Ukraine.

It seems obvious to me that money and politics intersect strongly in what appears and how. The amount of shit I see about Nancy Pelosi in the last couple of days - in spite of muting every instance of it - suggests to me that someone is paying money to get the message out right now.

Other things as well at different times, but this is really standing out right at the moment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 20, 2022, 03:57:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 03:51:13 PMSo I started checking on Twitter since Putin started his war against Ukraine.

It seems obvious to me that money and politics intersect strongly in what appears and how. The amount of shit I see about Nancy Pelosi in the last couple of days - in spite of muting every instance of it - suggests to me that someone is paying money to get the message out right now.

Other things as well at different times, but this is really standing out right at the moment.

It may not be just money and politics though. There are many many footsoldiers that will carry a story that helps their team without funding. Syt's sisters are some of the footsoldiers, but in the case of nancy pelosi there are probably also some among the bernie sanders brigade.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 20, 2022, 04:08:14 PM
I see loads of stuff about Pelosi and the amount she makes on the stock market. On the surface often just saying to copy her and grow rich but there does seem to be a big undercurrent of conspiracy.

And yes. It's definitely something I've noticed that people will call out fake news and misinformation and how much of a threat to society it is... But then repeat it themselves.
I have been doing a small study into this area and a lot of people do seem to see this as a problem that others have, nobody can admit that they themselves might believe lies.

Thooouughh.... This being what it is, it does seem to be a much bigger problem on the right. What is interesting there is as well as gullible idiots who just believe whatever they're told you also get a number who know something is bollocks but prefer it to the truth anyway and see reality as something that runs on faith, believe in a truth and it is the truth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 04:40:59 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on July 20, 2022, 03:57:35 PMIt may not be just money and politics though. There are many many footsoldiers that will carry a story that helps their team without funding. Syt's sisters are some of the footsoldiers, but in the case of nancy pelosi there are probably also some among the bernie sanders brigade.

I don't doubt the footsoldiers thing, but these are not people I follow and it's only remotely related to things I've clicked on but it still comes up as the suggested / recommended / sponsored feed at a high frequency.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 20, 2022, 05:01:45 PM
Insider trading by the Pelosis is not a new story her filings of stock and option positions have been a talk in stock gambler circles for a while now, her results have been most excellent. Its getting traction and attention lately because of the proposed semiconductor bill and how she has a recent and massive position (can't recall if call options or shares) in Nvidia. Also one of her aides just got selected for a job with the Sec.

Pelosi corruption aside though, the number of enthusiastic volunteers to spread fascist anti-Democrat bullshit on Twitter is annoying and somewhat worrying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 05:04:18 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 20, 2022, 05:01:45 PMInsider trading by the Pelosis is not a new story her filings of stock and option positions have been a talk in stock gambler circles for a while now, her results have been most excellent. Its getting traction and attention lately because of the proposed semiconductor bill and how she has a recent and massive position (can't recall if call options or shares) in Nvidia. Also one of her aides just got selected for a job with the Sec.

Pelosi corruption aside though, the number of enthusiastic volunteers to spread fascist anti-Democrat bullshit on Twitter is annoying and somewhat worrying.

I have no opinion on Pelosi and stock trading, because it doesn't really interest me. Which is why the topic surfacing in twitter selected posts (as opposed to posts of accounts I follow, or accounts people I follow comment/ like/share) stands out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2022, 07:56:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 12:49:15 PMAnd the salient question - which I think you're getting at - is whether we should buy into the political traction US police has established around the risks warrior cops face... or not.

A much more salient question in my mind is what one does after one has decided not to "buy into the political traction."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 08:14:12 PM
Well what do you think one should do?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2022, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 08:14:12 PMWell what do you think one should do?

I think one should buy into the political traction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 08:27:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2022, 08:15:28 PMI think one should buy into the political traction.

In that case, what one should do in the opposite scenario seems less salient.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2022, 08:32:27 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 08:27:31 PMIn that case, what one should do in the opposite scenario seems less salient.

Even if I do buy into the political traction I live in a democracy in which people who don't can out vote me.  The repercussions of their decisions can affect my life.  So salient.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 20, 2022, 08:39:52 PM
The "cops job is less dangerous then a loggers" is kind of bullshit though.

Its one of those "lies, damn lies, and statistics" sort of things.

Cops deal with criminals. They will tell you that absent the measures they take, those criminals, being dangerous, would put their lives in jeopardy on a regular basis, resulting in lots and lots of police officers being injured or killed.

Thereore, they take significant measures to reduce that risk, and those measures work, which is why they are not being killed much more then they are, given the inherent dangers in what they do.

Now, they might be wrong - it could be that the danger is much less, and those measures are reducing the numbers much less then they think, because really, it is not as dangerous as they imagine.

But it could also be that it is in fact just as dangerous as they claim, and they are in fact taking the necessary precautions to mitigate that danger, and hence that is why we see the danger rate that we do see.

Both those scenarios would result in the outcome we see. Noting that delivery drivers die more often then cops is not evidence that cops do not have a dangerous job that justifies the measures they take to lessen that danger.

Anlogy time: If I claim that jumping out of an airplane is really fucking dangerous, and will result in nearly a 100% fatality rate, pointing out that people who jump from airplanes with parachutes almost never die, therefore, they clearly don't need parachutes, and noting that in comparison, people who jump from moving cars die more often then people who jump out of planes, well - that doesn't tell us anything at all about whether we should be pro-parachute or not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on July 20, 2022, 09:11:59 PM
We're spending way too much money on securing our nuclear arsenal.  Since the invention of nuclear weapons, there have been exactly zero people killed by stolen nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 20, 2022, 09:32:40 PM
Cops are the branches of Ares and thus are more entitled to more respect than mere loggers and delivery persons.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 20, 2022, 09:38:30 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 20, 2022, 08:39:52 PMThe "cops job is less dangerous then a loggers" is kind of bullshit though.

Its one of those "lies, damn lies, and statistics" sort of things.

Cops deal with criminals. They will tell you that absent the measures they take, those criminals, being dangerous, would put their lives in jeopardy on a regular basis, resulting in lots and lots of police officers being injured or killed.

Thereore, they take significant measures to reduce that risk, and those measures work, which is why they are not being killed much more then they are, given the inherent dangers in what they do.

Now, they might be wrong - it could be that the danger is much less, and those measures are reducing the numbers much less then they think, because really, it is not as dangerous as they imagine.

But it could also be that it is in fact just as dangerous as they claim, and they are in fact taking the necessary precautions to mitigate that danger, and hence that is why we see the danger rate that we do see.

Both those scenarios would result in the outcome we see. Noting that delivery drivers die more often then cops is not evidence that cops do not have a dangerous job that justifies the measures they take to lessen that danger.

Anlogy time: If I claim that jumping out of an airplane is really fucking dangerous, and will result in nearly a 100% fatality rate, pointing out that people who jump from airplanes with parachutes almost never die, therefore, they clearly don't need parachutes, and noting that in comparison, people who jump from moving cars die more often then people who jump out of planes, well - that doesn't tell us anything at all about whether we should be pro-parachute or not.


Loggers take significant measures to reduce the inherent risks of working in the forest, felling and harvesting trees.  And those measures work to some extent, but the job is still inherently very dangerous and the danger is never eliminated. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 20, 2022, 10:38:00 PM
While CCs argument for loggers applies, the difference between cops and delivery drivers can probably be explained by the measures Berkut refers to though.

Cops can afford these measures as their job is well-funded and well-protected by law.

Delivery drivers cannot as they are typically exploited persons from the poorest segments of society and have to take the risks inherent in their job so they make money to survive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 11:13:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2022, 08:32:27 PMEven if I do buy into the political traction I live in a democracy in which people who don't can out vote me.  The repercussions of their decisions can affect my life.  So salient.

Well, I'm not going to outvote you since I live in a different democracy.

My perception, from the democracy I live in, is that we should do our very best to prevent the further growth of the warrior-cop "we take unique risks so we should be given unique latitude" ethos amongst our police forces in Canada, and that the "if you're insufficiently deferential for your social class you only have yourself to blame if the police fucks you up" attitude is absolutely corrosive to a free and just society.

In my view, police officers do important and often thankless work which should absolutely be appreciated and rewarded. However, they also have a huge amount of authority and ability to apply discretion and thus the ability to mess up people's lives. As such police should be held to the highest standard of conduct.

Additionally, I think that police officers - as public servants authorized to apply force - owe an especially high duty of care to the public, including suspects and criminals.

In my view police work is an honourable and necessary profession that should respected, but it is not uniquely heroic or special. We - in the democracy I am in - should be vigilant towards abuse of power, corruption, and excessive deference (we don't always succeed, of course). When looking a the democracy you're in it seems to me that you fail too frequently in that regard, and the "there's something uniquely special about our heroic cops risking their lives every day" ideology is part of the reason for that. I don't know how to unfuck that situation, though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 20, 2022, 11:18:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 20, 2022, 09:38:30 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 20, 2022, 08:39:52 PMThe "cops job is less dangerous then a loggers" is kind of bullshit though.

Its one of those "lies, damn lies, and statistics" sort of things.

Cops deal with criminals. They will tell you that absent the measures they take, those criminals, being dangerous, would put their lives in jeopardy on a regular basis, resulting in lots and lots of police officers being injured or killed.

Thereore, they take significant measures to reduce that risk, and those measures work, which is why they are not being killed much more then they are, given the inherent dangers in what they do.

Now, they might be wrong - it could be that the danger is much less, and those measures are reducing the numbers much less then they think, because really, it is not as dangerous as they imagine.

But it could also be that it is in fact just as dangerous as they claim, and they are in fact taking the necessary precautions to mitigate that danger, and hence that is why we see the danger rate that we do see.

Both those scenarios would result in the outcome we see. Noting that delivery drivers die more often then cops is not evidence that cops do not have a dangerous job that justifies the measures they take to lessen that danger.

Anlogy time: If I claim that jumping out of an airplane is really fucking dangerous, and will result in nearly a 100% fatality rate, pointing out that people who jump from airplanes with parachutes almost never die, therefore, they clearly don't need parachutes, and noting that in comparison, people who jump from moving cars die more often then people who jump out of planes, well - that doesn't tell us anything at all about whether we should be pro-parachute or not.


Loggers take significant measures to reduce the inherent risks of working in the forest, felling and harvesting trees.  And those measures work to some extent, but the job is still inherently very dangerous and the danger is never eliminated. 


Indeed.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 20, 2022, 11:19:49 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 20, 2022, 10:38:00 PMWhile CCs argument for loggers applies, the difference between cops and delivery drivers can probably be explained by the measures Berkut refers to though.

Cops can afford these measures as their job is well-funded and well-protected by law.

Delivery drivers cannot as they are typically exploited persons from the poorest segments of society and have to take the risks inherent in their job so they make money to survive.
Delivery drivers do in fact take many measures to reduce the risks of their job - its the same measures we all take to reduce the risks of driving. Hell, it's the same measures that cops take, for that matter.

I don't see how any of the responds to the point though. Comparing them makes no sense. The stats don't suggest *anything* actually useful.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 20, 2022, 11:22:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 20, 2022, 11:13:34 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2022, 08:32:27 PMEven if I do buy into the political traction I live in a democracy in which people who don't can out vote me.  The repercussions of their decisions can affect my life.  So salient.

Well, I'm not going to outvote you since I live in a different democracy.

My perception, from the democracy I live in, is that we should do our very best to prevent the further growth of the warrior-cop "we take unique risks so we should be given unique latitude" ethos amongst our police forces in Canada, and that the "if you're insufficiently deferential for your social class you only have yourself to blame if the police fucks you up" attitude is absolutely corrosive to a free and just society.

In my view, police officers do important and often thankless work which should absolutely be appreciated and rewarded. However, they also have a huge amount of authority and ability to apply discretion and thus the ability to mess up people's lives. As such police should be held to the highest standard of conduct.

Additionally, I think that police officers - as public servants authorized to apply force - owe an especially high duty of care to the public, including suspects and criminals.

In my view police work is an honourable and necessary profession that should respected, but it is not uniquely heroic or special. We - in the democracy I am in - should be vigilant towards abuse of power, corruption, and excessive deference (we don't always succeed, of course). When looking a the democracy you're in it seems to me that you fail too frequently in that regard, and the "there's something uniquely special about our heroic cops risking their lives every day" ideology is part of the reason for that. I don't know how to unfuck that situation, though.
I generally agree with all of this. 

I think the militarization of the police is

1) Unnecessary and doesn't make cops safer in any significant way, and
2) Is actively detrimental to them doing their actual job

I just don't think bullshit like comparing their death rate to delivery drivers or fishermen is even a little relevant to that argument, one way or the other.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2022, 01:12:08 AM
What do you mean by "deference" Jake?

"Yes officer, I'm sorry I was speeding?"

"We salute our brave uniformed officers killed in the line of duty?"

"Yeah, shoot whoever you want, we trust your judgement?"

Something else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2022, 01:23:40 AM
Not from my family or friends, but I feel it still belongs here.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYIr0AoWAAAJaRZ?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 21, 2022, 01:54:31 AM
So she is saying African-Americans are an oppressed minority? Huh. Didn't expect that from Owens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 21, 2022, 07:16:20 AM
Has Candace Owens been reading Languish?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 07:19:01 AM
Quote from: Zanza on July 20, 2022, 10:38:00 PMWhile CCs argument for loggers applies, the difference between cops and delivery drivers can probably be explained by the measures Berkut refers to though.

Cops can afford these measures as their job is well-funded and well-protected by law.

Delivery drivers cannot as they are typically exploited persons from the poorest segments of society and have to take the risks inherent in their job so they make money to survive.

I agree, not only does the the work of being a delivery driver have inherent dangers, they receive little I the way training, equipment or support to mitigate those risks - especially when compared to other dangerous work like loggers, miners etc. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 07:24:12 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 20, 2022, 11:19:49 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 20, 2022, 10:38:00 PMWhile CCs argument for loggers applies, the difference between cops and delivery drivers can probably be explained by the measures Berkut refers to though.

Cops can afford these measures as their job is well-funded and well-protected by law.

Delivery drivers cannot as they are typically exploited persons from the poorest segments of society and have to take the risks inherent in their job so they make money to survive.
Delivery drivers do in fact take many measures to reduce the risks of their job - its the same measures we all take to reduce the risks of driving. Hell, it's the same measures that cops take, for that matter.

I don't see how any of the responds to the point though. Comparing them makes no sense. The stats don't suggest *anything* actually useful.

US Delivery drivers definitely receive better training and equipment then the rest of the world.  But do you have a source for your remarkable claim?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 21, 2022, 08:15:58 AM
Quote from: Zanza on July 20, 2022, 10:38:00 PMWhile CCs argument for loggers applies, the difference between cops and delivery drivers can probably be explained by the measures Berkut refers to though.

Cops can afford these measures as their job is well-funded and well-protected by law.

Delivery drivers cannot as they are typically exploited persons from the poorest segments of society and have to take the risks inherent in their job so they make money to survive.

I think that you vastly overstate the degree to which truck drivers come from "the poorest segments of society."  Truck drivers have a higher mortality rate because they are exposed to traffic accidents for a much greater proportion of their time on the job.

If we are talking just homicides on the job, the statistics are very different.  In 2000, these were the numbers reported by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (all oper 100k workers):

Cab Driver: 17.9
Police: 4.4
Private Security: 4.1
Managers/Executives in food/beverage industry: 2.5
Truck Drivers: 0.7

BLS (https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/work-related-homicides-the-facts.pdf)

Driving is dangerous, but not murderous.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 21, 2022, 08:24:00 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 21, 2022, 08:15:58 AM
Quote from: Zanza on July 20, 2022, 10:38:00 PMWhile CCs argument for loggers applies, the difference between cops and delivery drivers can probably be explained by the measures Berkut refers to though.

Cops can afford these measures as their job is well-funded and well-protected by law.

Delivery drivers cannot as they are typically exploited persons from the poorest segments of society and have to take the risks inherent in their job so they make money to survive.

I think that you vastly overstate the degree to which truck drivers come from "the poorest segments of society."  Truck drivers have a higher mortality rate because they are exposed to traffic accidents for a much greater proportion of their time on the job.

If we are talking just homicides on the job, the statistics are very different.  In 2000, these were the numbers reported by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (all oper 100k workers):

Cab Driver: 17.9
Police: 4.4
Private Security: 4.1
Managers/Executives in food/beverage industry: 2.5
Truck Drivers: 0.7

BLS (https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/work-related-homicides-the-facts.pdf)

Driving is dangerous, but not murderous.

I think I found the issue. The meme makes reference to pizza delivery so people falling in same category as gig economy workers. However the BLS stats sitting behind it appear to be based on both those delivery workers but also truck delivery drivers who don't fully overlap with the gig economy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 21, 2022, 08:54:49 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 07:24:12 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 20, 2022, 11:19:49 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 20, 2022, 10:38:00 PMWhile CCs argument for loggers applies, the difference between cops and delivery drivers can probably be explained by the measures Berkut refers to though.

Cops can afford these measures as their job is well-funded and well-protected by law.

Delivery drivers cannot as they are typically exploited persons from the poorest segments of society and have to take the risks inherent in their job so they make money to survive.
Delivery drivers do in fact take many measures to reduce the risks of their job - its the same measures we all take to reduce the risks of driving. Hell, it's the same measures that cops take, for that matter.

I don't see how any of the responds to the point though. Comparing them makes no sense. The stats don't suggest *anything* actually useful.

US Delivery drivers definitely receive better training and equipment then the rest of the world.  But do you have a source for your remarkable claim?
I have a feeling the claim I think I made, and the straw colored one in your mind are not the same.

Try steel manning my post, and responding again.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 21, 2022, 08:57:41 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 21, 2022, 08:24:00 AMI think I found the issue. The meme makes reference to pizza delivery so people falling in same category as gig economy workers. However the BLS stats sitting behind it appear to be based on both those delivery workers but also truck delivery drivers who don't fully overlap with the gig economy.

Yeah, memes are designed to promote misinformation, either maliciously (as in this case) or humorously.  This one deliberately misuses the data on truck drivers (including delivery drivers) as well as misusing the term "dangerous."  Saying the a non-humorous meme "sounds suspicious" is like saying that water sounds wet.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2022, 09:07:03 AM
I agree with Berkut's basic point - many jobs entail danger for various reasons but at a basic level putting oneself into dangerous situations involving other people (and not just nature or risk in the abstract) *IS* the job of the police.  And that is part of the reason why police - like members of the uniformed armed services - attract political and social support, even if in terms of risk outcomes, one can find other jobs with higher mortality risks per person per unit of time.

The police attract mixed responses because their position in society is ill-defined.  One can imagine two poles: at one pole is the police as thuggish head-knockers using brutality or the threat of brutality to maintain the power of a ruling class and keep dissenters in line - a role police have played in many historical times and places.  At the other pole is police as a true profession - a well-trained and educated cadre of professional officers, under democratic control, responsible for responding to breaches of the peace in all their many manifestations, incorporating the best current practices. 

In the US, police departments fall variously between those two poles - with different strata of people experiencing different aspects of police interaction.  That explains the different perceptions and levels of social support for police. And also why the "defund the police" movement, in addition to being terrible politics, was also bad policy.  Because if the goal is to have police departments move to pole 2, there is a need for more funding, not less.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 21, 2022, 09:39:01 AM
There is no need for more funding, just move the cash around.

Maybe don't buy an APC next budget and spend that on training.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 21, 2022, 10:19:26 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 21, 2022, 09:39:01 AMThere is no need for more funding, just move the cash around.

Maybe don't buy an APC next budget and spend that on training.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you are saying, Joan, but I struggle to see evidence that increasing funding will make the police less shitty. Or is it just that higher wages will attract better calibre people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2022, 10:23:42 AM
Of course money alone won't do it.  Police departments need to be rethought, restructured, and rebuilt.  But doing that costs money.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 21, 2022, 10:32:47 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2022, 10:23:42 AMOf course money alone won't do it.  Police departments need to be rethought, restructured, and rebuilt.  But doing that costs money.

But then that sounds like the municipality setting aside budget to restructure, not so much better funding the police who will waste it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 21, 2022, 10:35:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 21, 2022, 10:19:26 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 21, 2022, 09:39:01 AMThere is no need for more funding, just move the cash around.

Maybe don't buy an APC next budget and spend that on training.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you are saying, Joan, but I struggle to see evidence that increasing funding will make the police less shitty. Or is it just that higher wages will attract better calibre people?
I don't think there is any question that more funding, *properly applied* could make many of our police forces more professional, better trained, and more aligned with what we want societally.

But I don't think that is the necessary level. I think the fact that we have like 40,000 different "police" forces is a bigger problem. I think that the culture within some of those departments is toxic from the perspective of them serving the societal goals we want out of police is a MUCH bigger problem that funding doesn't really addresss.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2022, 09:07:03 AMI agree with Berkut's basic point - many jobs entail danger for various reasons but at a basic level putting oneself into dangerous situations involving other people (and not just nature or risk in the abstract) *IS* the job of the police.  And that is part of the reason why police - like members of the uniformed armed services - attract political and social support, even if in terms of risk outcomes, one can find other jobs with higher mortality risks per person per unit of time.

The police attract mixed responses because their position in society is ill-defined.  One can imagine two poles: at one pole is the police as thuggish head-knockers using brutality or the threat of brutality to maintain the power of a ruling class and keep dissenters in line - a role police have played in many historical times and places.  At the other pole is police as a true profession - a well-trained and educated cadre of professional officers, under democratic control, responsible for responding to breaches of the peace in all their many manifestations, incorporating the best current practices. 

In the US, police departments fall variously between those two poles - with different strata of people experiencing different aspects of police interaction.  That explains the different perceptions and levels of social support for police. And also why the "defund the police" movement, in addition to being terrible politics, was also bad policy.  Because if the goal is to have police departments move to pole 2, there is a need for more funding, not less.

Miners putting themselves in dangerous situations IS the job of a miner.

Loggers putting themselves in dangerous situation IS the job of a logger.

etc etc etc.

Your qualifier that it is a dangerous situation involving other people is not all that convincing, since a lot of the danger of those other jobs comes from what other people do (including their managers who make resourcing decisions which directly impact the degree of danger).  These are all jobs where the danger cannot be mitigated only by the efforts of the worker themselves.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 21, 2022, 01:06:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 11:19:38 AMMiners putting themselves in dangerous situations IS the job of a miner.

Loggers putting themselves in dangerous situation IS the job of a logger.

etc etc etc.

Nonsense.  If there was no danger at all, there would still be loggers and miners.  Going into danger is not their job at all.  OTOH, if there was no danger, there would be no need for police.

QuoteYour qualifier that it is a dangerous situation involving other people is not all that convincing, since a lot of the danger of those other jobs comes from what other people do (including their managers who make resourcing decisions which directly impact the degree of danger).  These are all jobs where the danger cannot be mitigated only by the efforts of the worker themselves.

Your red herring is both red and a herring.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 01:12:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 21, 2022, 01:06:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 11:19:38 AMMiners putting themselves in dangerous situations IS the job of a miner.

Loggers putting themselves in dangerous situation IS the job of a logger.

etc etc etc.

Nonsense.  If there was no danger at all, there would still be loggers and miners.  Going into danger is not their job at all.  OTOH, if there was no danger, there would be no need for police.

QuoteYour qualifier that it is a dangerous situation involving other people is not all that convincing, since a lot of the danger of those other jobs comes from what other people do (including their managers who make resourcing decisions which directly impact the degree of danger).  These are all jobs where the danger cannot be mitigated only by the efforts of the worker themselves.

Your red herring is both red and a herring.


It's a nice fantasy world you have created to make the argument.  But we live in the real world where the danger of those jobs cannot be eliminated.  Talk about red herrings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2022, 01:13:28 PM
From my niece's husband:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/294302418_477158444411594_4588445739872593657_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=SzeEAyNZoZ8AX_K_Zpb&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-W7_CR_-qLQWkKi0XzVNvkOQHsBnp_Kj8Y471Yl4gpng&oe=62DEE5CE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 01:14:59 PM
Translation?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2022, 01:17:19 PM
That's pretty crazy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 21, 2022, 01:21:28 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 01:14:59 PMTranslation?

My guess: Mass shooters are a deep state plot, but if the citizenry has access to military grade weaponry they will stop the mass shooters and everything will be better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 21, 2022, 03:04:26 PM
If the deep state can stage manage shooting incidents and staff them with crisis actors, how come they can't manage to stop ordinary armed citizen from wandering on their set?

It's convenient for the paranoid mindset that the evil elites are simultaneously omnipotent and deviously clever, and yet also comically incompetent and ineffective.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 21, 2022, 03:58:10 PM
I thought they were referring to a real person.  :blush:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 21, 2022, 04:24:13 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 01:12:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 21, 2022, 01:06:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 11:19:38 AMMiners putting themselves in dangerous situations IS the job of a miner.

Loggers putting themselves in dangerous situation IS the job of a logger.

etc etc etc.

Nonsense.  If there was no danger at all, there would still be loggers and miners.  Going into danger is not their job at all.  OTOH, if there was no danger, there would be no need for police.

QuoteYour qualifier that it is a dangerous situation involving other people is not all that convincing, since a lot of the danger of those other jobs comes from what other people do (including their managers who make resourcing decisions which directly impact the degree of danger).  These are all jobs where the danger cannot be mitigated only by the efforts of the worker themselves.

Your red herring is both red and a herring.


It's a nice fantasy world you have created to make the argument.  But we live in the real world where the danger of those jobs cannot be eliminated.  Talk about red herrings.

It must be nice to live in your little fantasy world where you can convince yourself that your non sequiturs are actual responses to intellectual arguments.

Let's remember that your argument is that "Miners putting themselves in dangerous situations IS the job of a miner."  That means that, the more dangerous the mine, the more miners it will employ, regardless of the amount of ore, because the miners' jobs are not mining ore, but "putting themselves in dangerous situations."  In fact, if your contention were correct, a perfectly safe mine would have no miners at all!  :lmfao:

Logic alone should make you7 retract your absurd claim, but I know that you cannot admit being wrong, so I'll just show the others the link to the 48 Most Dangerous Mines in America (https://shadowproof.com/2010/04/15/the-48-most-dangerous-mines-in-america/) according to Congress (in 2010). The most dangerous coal mine employed only 44 people, the most dangerous non-coal mine employed only 28.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 06:27:19 PM
First rule of holes Grumbles.

If you want to deny that miners are employed to work in a dangerous environment, keep digging.  If not stop digging and climb out.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 21, 2022, 07:11:38 PM
Some people seem to have a knack to dig up old photos.  Anyway, this your average photo, a producer and 3 people involved in the humoristic industry.  But it's creepy, in retrospect.

(https://i.redd.it/yl129tu62zc91.png)


From left to right:
Gilbert Rozon, founder and former owner of Just for laughs festival.  Accused of multiple rapes and sexual harassement toward many women a few years ago.  For Québec, this is as big as Harvey Weinstein.

Philippe Bond.  Stand up comic.  8 women recently (this morning) came forward to accuse him of rape and inapropriate sexual behavior.  Some victims attempted to press charges but where not believed by the police.

Eric Salvail.  Former talk show host/radio jock.  Accused of sexual harassment and inapropriate sexual behavior (groping, masturbating in front of people, puting his dick where it didn't belong, etc) on straigh males, gay males and women.  Lots of people excused his behavior, especially toward women, because he was gay.   :rolleyes:

Just another stand up comic, not involved in anything, but who must really regret having taken this picture today... :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 21, 2022, 07:36:16 PM
She kinda looks like she regrets it in the moment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 21, 2022, 08:14:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 06:27:19 PMFirst rule of holes Grumbles.

If you want to deny that miners are employed to work in a dangerous environment, keep digging.  If not stop digging and climb out.

First Rule of Strawmen, Canuckles:  you suck at them, but can't resist trying them out anyway.

The issue isn't that I am trying to "want to deny that miners are employed to work in a dangerous environment."  Only a moron would make that statement (at least as a general statement), and only you have made that statement.  The issue is your absurd assertion that "Miners putting themselves in dangerous situations IS the job of a miner."  Your panicky flight from your arguments and attempts to obfuscate the issue with strawman arguments, red herrings, and non sequiturs tells me that you know you made a stupid argument, but also that you cannot bring yourself to admit it.

First Rule of Holes, Canuckles.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 21, 2022, 08:22:31 PM
Besides, lots of miners these days work in strip mining. While the equipment they are working on is enormous and very dangerous to work with, it isn't quite going deep underground with a candle and a canary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on July 21, 2022, 08:52:42 PM
never mind
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 21, 2022, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2022, 01:12:08 AMWhat do you mean by "deference" Jake?

"Yes officer, I'm sorry I was speeding?"

"We salute our brave uniformed officers killed in the line of duty?"

"Yeah, shoot whoever you want, we trust your judgement?"

Something else?

I've seen all of those, but I was more thinking:

"That guy talked trash to the cops, of course they kicked the shit out of him."

"Well if he didn't want to get shot he should've stopped running away."

"Always be polite to officers because they can make your life hell if they take a disliking to you."

"If the police beat you up it's most likely your own fault. You should've complied."

"Always keep your hands in view. Don't make eye contact. Don't get out of the car (because if you do you may trigger the cops and pay the price)."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2022, 12:17:41 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 21, 2022, 01:21:28 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2022, 01:14:59 PMTranslation?

My guess: Mass shooters are a deep state plot, but if the citizenry has access to military grade weaponry they will stop the mass shooters and everything will be better.

Another post he shared. (None of the commenters are in my family, so I didn't anonymize them this time):
(https://i.postimg.cc/yYN55ZRq/image.png)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 22, 2022, 02:54:59 AM
They're not even trying to hide it. 124 likes. Wtf.

It's an interesting slant. I guess it logically follows if you think the victims are actors. How the hell are people so messed up though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 22, 2022, 03:48:05 AM
So what is those guys deranged theory? That the shooters are groomed by the federal government based on their choice of weapons?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 22, 2022, 04:42:51 AM
I assume government creates these attacks to push through gun control and other oppressive measures?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 22, 2022, 04:46:51 AM
I guess they think the shooters, like the victims, are paid actors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 22, 2022, 07:54:54 AM
Quote from: Josquius on July 22, 2022, 04:46:51 AMI guess they think the shooters, like the victims, are paid actors.

I didn't see mention of the victims being actors, just that the shooters are groomed by the deep state to take away them constitutional freedoms or whatever. Which is admittedly a neat lie to take something that very brutally shows the terrible consequences of your deranged unhinged pet peeves, and turn it into something that supports your deranged unhinged pet peeves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 22, 2022, 09:47:32 AM
Pet peeve? Those are little things that irritate you. I don't think guns qualify.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 22, 2022, 09:56:05 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 22, 2022, 09:47:32 AMPet peeve? Those are little things that irritate you. I don't think guns qualify.

Yeah because the importance of easy access to them is blown out of all sane proportions
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 22, 2022, 05:55:45 PM

(https://i.redd.it/q349ch2906d91.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2022, 06:32:31 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 21, 2022, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2022, 01:12:08 AMI've seen all of those, but I was more thinking:

"That guy talked trash to the cops, of course they kicked the shit out of him."

"Well if he didn't want to get shot he should've stopped running away."

"Always be polite to officers because they can make your life hell if they take a disliking to you."

"If the police beat you up it's most likely your own fault. You should've complied."

"Always keep your hands in view. Don't make eye contact. Don't get out of the car (because if you do you may trigger the cops and pay the price)."

I agree cops should not beat people up just for mouthing off and if they do they should be prosecuted.  However it's not something I believe happens much, if at all.

Same with getting shot for running away.

One should be polite to the police because one should be polite to everyone.  Of course you shouldn't get beat up for not being polite.  See above.

Yes, if police resort to force it's most likely because of a failure to comply. 

You should keep your hands in view if ordered to keep your hands in view.  If you're walking down the street you don't need to keep your hands in view.  Yes, the police want you to stay in the car if they pull you over.  I don't see the problem with this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on July 22, 2022, 07:31:18 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 22, 2022, 05:55:45 PM(https://i.redd.it/q349ch2906d91.jpg)

Can't lift an aircraft carrier but still can't lift your mom.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 22, 2022, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2022, 06:32:31 PMI agree cops should not beat people up just for mouthing off and if they do they should be prosecuted.  However it's not something I believe happens much, if at all.

Same with getting shot for running away.

One should be polite to the police because one should be polite to everyone.  Of course you shouldn't get beat up for not being polite.  See above.

Yes, if police resort to force it's most likely because of a failure to comply. 

You should keep your hands in view if ordered to keep your hands in view.  If you're walking down the street you don't need to keep your hands in view.  Yes, the police want you to stay in the car if they pull you over.  I don't see the problem with this.

So noted.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 24, 2022, 02:19:10 AM
My sister (orange) shared her friend's (red) Facebook post ...

(https://i.postimg.cc/tqB69cYn/image.png)

 :wacko:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 24, 2022, 03:43:23 AM
I was just thinking that your sisters don't seem to recycle *every single* Qanon theory.  It would be interesting to understand how their filters work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 24, 2022, 12:45:44 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/294571666_2295467417287984_8804368633670583294_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=DjWfexBOwA4AX_a73Hb&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-S-JC_-yvzq4OG6WORPGr3bNAAp1CPQkR9XtcNc2SweQ&oe=62E2980A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 24, 2022, 02:34:19 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 24, 2022, 02:19:10 AMMy sister (orange) shared her friend's (red) Facebook post ...

(https://i.postimg.cc/tqB69cYn/image.png)

 :wacko:

I don't really know how one interacts with that / figures out how to sway out of such positions.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 24, 2022, 04:50:07 PM
So she thinks people not voting is something that works against the republicans?   :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 24, 2022, 05:01:31 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 24, 2022, 04:50:07 PMSo she thinks people not voting is something that works against the republicans?   :lol:

She probably thinks its easier for the Democrats and their Chinese and Venezuelan allies to fuck around with mail in ballots.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 25, 2022, 10:24:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/294684064_5362339567146936_924303127208946353_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=phtirJoKplEAX9XjVxd&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8bPjBazgC-xfCiMTbGIOBWfT3W8rMiuBCXywGbxxfH7Q&oe=62E4882F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2022, 10:47:00 AM
The unemployment rate was 6.7 percent then as opposed to 3.6% now.
Funny how easily people forget.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 25, 2022, 11:19:45 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2022, 10:47:00 AMThe unemployment rate was 6.7 percent then as opposed to 3.6% now.
Funny how easily people forget.

:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 25, 2022, 12:25:02 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2022, 10:47:00 AMThe unemployment rate was 6.7 percent then as opposed to 3.6% now.
Funny how easily people forget.

It's not a matter of forgetting, it's a matter of making up shit that is easily disproven.  E.g., the DIA was at 30,829 on Jan 6 2021 and was at 32,916 (a considerable comedown from the market's peak) on June 6, 2022.  The average price for gasoline was $2.26 in Jan 2021.  Border crossings were just off a ten-year high, and apprehensions in 2020 were the lowest in twenty years.  The record low for interest rates was in 2008-2015 (0.25).

Morons make bad liars.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on July 29, 2022, 10:53:21 AM
(https://i.redd.it/2qgf9y3i62i71.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 29, 2022, 11:29:34 AM
 :lol: Syt should post that so his family can see it.

On second thought, they'd probably interpret it as hell yeah we are fighting the good fight unlike them libtards.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 30, 2022, 07:49:18 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/296365025_2309689719187659_1797952523651747380_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=01GC27umMeoAX_RvR4i&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8PxFpnb9aSlLppClCQu-6CJwkNRgXkdNk0Qz3Mxddh2A&oe=62E93BBD)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 30, 2022, 08:32:01 AM
Yikes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2022, 08:34:30 AM
How do they propose to achieve all of this? Magic?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on July 30, 2022, 08:36:58 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 30, 2022, 08:34:30 AMHow do they propose to achieve all of this? Magic?

Apparently by the fertilizing power of globalists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 30, 2022, 09:58:59 AM
There's going to be real bloodshed, isn't there?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 30, 2022, 10:51:17 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 30, 2022, 07:49:18 AM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/296365025_2309689719187659_1797952523651747380_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=01GC27umMeoAX_RvR4i&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8PxFpnb9aSlLppClCQu-6CJwkNRgXkdNk0Qz3Mxddh2A&oe=62E93BBD)

Going back to a fantasy version of the 19th century. No electricity and books are the only form of communication of information.

At least they want to stop global warming I guess.

Though somehow we are producing tractors with no electricity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 30, 2022, 10:55:06 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 30, 2022, 09:58:59 AMThere's going to be real bloodshed, isn't there?

The old belief that the problems are evil people and if we just murder all of them paradise will break out. Despite actually trying to do this and failing multiple times it remains very tempting to people who think this way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 30, 2022, 03:11:55 PM
If one or two Qanon nutters start reading books that would be a positive.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 30, 2022, 03:20:04 PM
In this fantasy, do the people shrink along with the shrinking cities, or do the shrinking buildings in the shrinking cities eventually become too small for even children?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on July 30, 2022, 04:33:26 PM
I assumed there was a single man and a single woman left in the world.  Being "ok with risk" was strong enough to make sure only two people make it to adulthood.  The happy farmers are chemically controlled children put to work.

The perception of shrinking cities result from an undiagnosed vision problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on July 31, 2022, 02:12:43 PM
They hate the Torygraph?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 03, 2022, 12:57:16 PM
Another one shared by my niece's husband.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hDwRLK1p/image.png)

Bigger size: https://i.postimg.cc/hDwRLK1p/image.png
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 03, 2022, 03:36:56 PM
Apparently Alex Jones made about $800,000 day on Infowars.

And apparently his lawyer accidentally handed over the contents of Alex Jones' phone to the Sandy Hook parents' lawyer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on August 03, 2022, 03:39:02 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 03, 2022, 03:36:56 PMApparently Alex Jones made about $800,000 day on Infowars.

And apparently his lawyer accidentally handed over the contents of Alex Jones' phone to the Sandy Hook parents' lawyer.
Is there legal recourse to that, I wonder?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 03, 2022, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 03, 2022, 03:39:02 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 03, 2022, 03:36:56 PMApparently Alex Jones made about $800,000 day on Infowars.

And apparently his lawyer accidentally handed over the contents of Alex Jones' phone to the Sandy Hook parents' lawyer.
Is there legal recourse to that, I wonder?

Good question.

And is there legal recourse to prevent those records from getting into the hands of the January 6 committee... because maybe there's a bit of stuff relevant there as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 03, 2022, 07:21:30 PM
In BC a lawyer who receives information which was mistakenly sent to them must inform the other side and either return the information unread or destroy the information without reading it.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 03, 2022, 07:30:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 03, 2022, 07:21:30 PMIn BC a lawyer who receives information which was mistakenly sent to them must inform the other side and either return the information unread or destroy the information without reading it.

In the clip circulating, the Sandy Hook Parents lawyer says (in court, when he reveals that he has the files) that Jones' lawyer sent him the files 12 days ago. When informed of it, Jones' lawyer did not assert privilege or otherwise object... so, apparently, 10 days later the evidence is in the clear to use.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 03, 2022, 08:14:23 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 03, 2022, 03:36:56 PMApparently Alex Jones made about $800,000 day on Infowars.

And apparently his lawyer accidentally handed over the contents of Alex Jones' phone to the Sandy Hook parents' lawyer.

Made up to $800,000 on some days.  That was not his average (or, at least, we have no evidence that it was his average).  The significance of that info, though, is that it shows he was lying when he talked about the most money he made from the site.

The phone thing, again, is important in that it shows that Jones was lying when he said that he had no messages on his phone regarding Sandy Hook.  It probably isn't admissible in and of itself because of the lack od f a chain of custody.

The judge was not amused by the fact that Jones and his lawyers "forgot" to submit all of the evidence requested during discovery, as the phone image demonstrated.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 04, 2022, 01:33:56 AM
Quote from: Jacob on August 03, 2022, 07:30:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 03, 2022, 07:21:30 PMIn BC a lawyer who receives information which was mistakenly sent to them must inform the other side and either return the information unread or destroy the information without reading it.

In the clip circulating, the Sandy Hook Parents lawyer says (in court, when he reveals that he has the files) that Jones' lawyer sent him the files 12 days ago. When informed of it, Jones' lawyer did not assert privilege or otherwise object... so, apparently, 10 days later the evidence is in the clear to use.

Wow, it will be interesting to see what the fallout over that is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 04, 2022, 02:12:38 AM
The text messages about the SH incident would presumably not involve communications with counsel and thus could not be clawed back as privileged. That certainly appears to be true of the one example used in Court. Although the inadvertent production of such material would be a blunder, the bigger question in my mind would be (as grumbler alluded to above) why such relevant evidence had been previously withheld.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 04, 2022, 12:00:02 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 04, 2022, 02:12:38 AMThe text messages about the SH incident would presumably not involve communications with counsel and thus could not be clawed back as privileged. That certainly appears to be true of the one example used in Court. Although the inadvertent production of such material would be a blunder, the bigger question in my mind would be (as grumbler alluded to above) why such relevant evidence had been previously withheld.

Jones offered that explanation that "I put Sandy Hook into the search function and nothing came up. I don't know, I'm not a tech guy."

Compelling stuff.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 04, 2022, 12:37:47 PM
So apparently both the Jan 6th Committee and Alex Jones ex-wife are subpoenaing Jones' phone records.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 04, 2022, 01:32:27 PM
QuoteJones offered that explanation that "I put Sandy Hook into the search function and nothing came up. I don't know, I'm not a tech guy."

Compelling stuff.

Yeah that's not how discovery is supposed to work.

it's kind of amazing this guy hasn't been torched by the legal system years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 05, 2022, 02:00:00 PM
Hypthetical question for the lawyers here:

Let's say I make a statement under oath that I never sent an email in which I said "everyone on languish is a bunch of jerks" (and this is relevant to the case being tried).

I have in fact sent such emails where I unequivocally state that I think "everyone on languish is a bunch of jerks." However, I do not share this during the discovery phase whether through incompetence or in an attempt to be clever.

A little while later, my idiot lawyer sends all my email records to opposing council, including emails in which I make the statement I swore I did not make.

Opposing counsel informs my idiot lawyer (as they're supposed to) and they - being more on the ball than Jones' lawyer - assert privilige.

Am I in the clear? I have perjured myself and done whatever the technical term is for playing games with discovery by withholding relevant evidence... but officially nobody knows that. So am I safe, or is there a way this could come to light officially and with due process?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 05, 2022, 02:08:55 PM
Just don't send that kind of emails, Jacob.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 05, 2022, 03:01:16 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 05, 2022, 02:00:00 PMHypthetical question for the lawyers here:

Let's say I make a statement under oath that I never sent an email in which I said "everyone on languish is a bunch of jerks" (and this is relevant to the case being tried).

I have in fact sent such emails where I unequivocally state that I think "everyone on languish is a bunch of jerks." However, I do not share this during the discovery phase whether through incompetence or in an attempt to be clever.

A little while later, my idiot lawyer sends all my email records to opposing council, including emails in which I make the statement I swore I did not make.

Opposing counsel informs my idiot lawyer (as they're supposed to) and they - being more on the ball than Jones' lawyer - assert privilige.

Am I in the clear? I have perjured myself and done whatever the technical term is for playing games with discovery by withholding relevant evidence... but officially nobody knows that. So am I safe, or is there a way this could come to light officially and with due process?

First, and foremost, truth is always a defence and so you would have little reason to hide those emails.

But to your question, those documents are not privileged.  You may have committed perjury but the more likely civil finding against you (and least in BC) is an award of special costs and probably exemplary damages.     Your lawyer may also be in trouble if they knew you had the documents but did not disclose them.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 05, 2022, 05:06:06 PM
Jury imposes US$45.2 million in punitive damages on Jones.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alex-jones-damages-sandy-hook-shooting-1.6542279
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 05, 2022, 05:40:31 PM
With two more defamation claims to go...

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on August 05, 2022, 06:00:53 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 03, 2022, 12:57:16 PMAnother one shared by my niece's husband.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hDwRLK1p/image.png)

Bigger size: https://i.postimg.cc/hDwRLK1p/image.png
When someone posts pepe the Frog I automatically assume that person is a racist.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 05, 2022, 08:51:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 05, 2022, 06:00:53 PMWhen someone posts pepe the Frog I automatically assume that person is a racist.

Racists also can't spell "NRA" correctly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 09, 2022, 05:48:00 AM
In a surprise twist, my sister comes out against the FBI searching homes? :unsure:  :hmm:


(https://i.postimg.cc/RVzRSZmg/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 09, 2022, 09:08:09 AM
Law Enforcement should not be allowed to search for evidence with a warrant? It is immoral and disrespectful to care about the integrity of the republic and the constitution?

And I would have zero problem with a search of the Biden family if they had a warrant. They aren't above the law. If you want them to be investigated, do an investigation. A legal one, not a Alex Jones make shit up one.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 09, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
Quotehow deranged and afraid are these democrats that they throw how their morals and respect?

Don't we even language any more?  :weep: 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 09, 2022, 10:44:48 AM
Nebraska police subpoena teenager's FB messages to charge her and her mother for the crime of (allegedly) having an abortion: https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2022/08/08/nebraska-cops-supoenaed-a-teens-facebook-dms-so-they-could-prosecute-her-for-having-an-abortion/?sh=4335e2e41c62
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on August 09, 2022, 10:53:02 AM
Cesspool? Cesspool.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 09, 2022, 11:03:50 AM
I will say that Nebraska allowing 20 weeks is more generous than most European countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe

They seem to be among the more liberal of the US states when it comes to limitations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law_in_the_United_States_by_state#Limits_on_abortion
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 09, 2022, 11:04:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 09, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
Quotehow deranged and afraid are these democrats that they throw how their morals and respect?

Don't we even language any more?  :weep: 

It took me a bit, but I think "throw how" is supposed to be "throw out".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 09, 2022, 11:05:36 AM
It is immoral for the FBI to search pursuant to a lawful warrant granted by the courts.  But perfectly fine for a presidential candidate to call for his opponent to be locked up? 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on August 09, 2022, 11:49:53 AM
I thought you were supposed to show respect to law enforcement and quietly let them law enforce on you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 09, 2022, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2022, 11:49:53 AMI thought you were supposed to show respect to law enforcement and quietly let them law enforce on you?

The GOP's logic is the same as authoritarians everywhere - the law is there to be used as a tool to supress our political opponents and keep the out-groups in their place, but it is never to be used against our own side.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 09, 2022, 11:59:56 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 09, 2022, 11:49:53 AMI thought you were supposed to show respect to law enforcement and quietly let them law enforce on you?

This double standard is often remarked upon. When law enforcement inconveniences them it is tyranny and government abuse and demands a patriotic threat of violence. When law enforcement inconveniences others then it is back the blue and show respect for the heroes of law enforcement. And to be fair both sides of the culture war do this sort of thing. Because it is a culture war, the warriors are not even a little bit interested in consistent values or principles but in winning the war. I am sure Orban and the Hungarian culture warriors do the same: when Hungary does it it is fine for blah blah reasons, when somebody else does it they are just evil bad actors.

In the eyes of the culture warrior, particularly (but not exclusively) the right wing variety there are no good or bad laws or good or bad ideas just good or bad people. The bad people must be opposed at all costs. But man it seems just constant on the right wing these days.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 10, 2022, 10:16:20 AM
Change of subject
https://fb.watch/ePx63RnFL4/

Is the Air Force smarter? :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 11, 2022, 02:45:23 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/297860832_6110302055652295_8872114725069419212_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=smfF40km4dcAX9xRRoZ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9FmzYmBrBlNG4x6p8tmGqnvycMtzMg5AkzD9zoTzczIg&oe=62F9CCD3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on August 11, 2022, 02:54:20 AM
Always feels a bit weird for Trump fans to blast Biden for senility. Have they seen their guy?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 11, 2022, 08:58:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2022, 02:54:20 AMAlways feels a bit weird for Trump fans to blast Biden for senility. Have they seen their guy?

Takes one to know?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on August 11, 2022, 09:04:19 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 11, 2022, 02:45:23 AM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/297860832_6110302055652295_8872114725069419212_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=smfF40km4dcAX9xRRoZ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9FmzYmBrBlNG4x6p8tmGqnvycMtzMg5AkzD9zoTzczIg&oe=62F9CCD3)

Add the words "white nationalist" in front of "America" and its more accurate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 11, 2022, 09:06:32 AM
QuoteWith highs of 35° expected AGAIN today, it's time to ask "could the government have done more?" Downing Street knew about this heatwave weeks ago and have done nothing. Shipments of 400,000 pairs of Speedos and 500,000 bikinis, sun cream and Cornettos have reportedly been sent back as unsafe after media claims the shipment was quarantined a month ago and Boris did nothing.
Karen from Chavington said, "We just don't know if it's safe to go outside and sunbathe because we can't function or think for ourselves. Boris hasn't told us either way and all my obese kids need ice cream and sweets, the Hubby can't get out to rob anyone so we're out of lager and weed, I blame the government entirely"
Meanwhile, anti- heat protesters dressed in thick jumpers chanting "cold lives matter" have marched on London, Big Ben has been removed and a giant Mint Feast put in its place by protesters.
The BBC reported earlier, 'clearly the sun has come out and Downing street have done nothing to prevent it.'
A second heat Wave is expected to hit the UK in 4 weeks time

I see what they're doing there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2022, 11:32:44 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/9XbpdQpC/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 12, 2022, 11:35:57 AM
Now, see, that one is clever.  I guess the million monkeys achieved serendipity.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2022, 11:43:17 AM
The FBI was pretty key in Trump's victory over Hillary in 2016 and this investigation into Trump is still years away from 2024. It seems to me the FBI has been a bit more considerate to Trump's political ambitions than the Clintons. But I guess that is gratitude for you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 13, 2022, 12:33:55 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299036192_5694758647235118_3848220919016322207_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=TRYHfxVh-BMAX_-UfB5&_nc_oc=AQlqOPru0Ui-syJ3Bp4Z_WrsB1iOPmlndS1BbqvCY7uynFK8GJ6qHHJykBtLkIzodgw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_S5pfV6pUkgSgiJjcL6f0TxCMoX_jnUpXUwR3suPyf5w&oe=62FCE8BF)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 13, 2022, 02:34:40 PM
The persecution complex goes deep here.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on August 13, 2022, 04:10:29 PM
Cartoon is unusual though in that it is actually funny.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on August 13, 2022, 05:42:58 PM
Why does Snoopy have all those illegal documents?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on August 13, 2022, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 13, 2022, 04:10:29 PMCartoon is unusual though in that it is actually funny.


???  It's as subtle as a baseball bat to the skull.  The FBI thing was funny because you didn't expect it.  The Charley Brown one didn't amuse me at all because it was exactly what I would expect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 13, 2022, 11:58:31 PM
Did not see this comimg from my middle sister. :lol:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/298290666_1400100373734232_3650813113065048131_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=V50urA3dfYwAX-RRgPg&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_PUiwNKeGfqy58LXOXSIC4PAEpMJksq715uQFrUjRNyA&oe=62FC764B)


Spoiler: this is not a Mark Twain quote: https://marktwainstudies.com/the-apocryphal-twain-when-the-rich-rob-the-poor-its-called-business/

:P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2022, 02:24:35 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 13, 2022, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 13, 2022, 04:10:29 PMCartoon is unusual though in that it is actually funny.


???  It's as subtle as a baseball bat to the skull.  The FBI thing was funny because you didn't expect it.  The Charley Brown one didn't amuse me at all because it was exactly what I would expect.

The bar is set low for this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 14, 2022, 11:01:17 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 14, 2022, 02:24:35 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 13, 2022, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 13, 2022, 04:10:29 PMCartoon is unusual though in that it is actually funny.


???  It's as subtle as a baseball bat to the skull.  The FBI thing was funny because you didn't expect it.  The Charley Brown one didn't amuse me at all because it was exactly what I would expect.

The bar is set low for this sort of thing.

Outrage addicts at this point don't need much to rub one out.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on August 15, 2022, 07:23:38 PM
This made me laugh: https://twitter.com/StaceyCKs1/status/1558928884900438017
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on August 21, 2022, 11:00:43 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/298425107_605325517625033_4964178802210219926_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=KCBT3RHnIkMAX-0jGeb&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9e4ZIJPdsxAivORt3BrG577JO45yy2iIr1bxr9rfx9gA&oe=63075411)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on August 22, 2022, 01:46:31 AM
Lies! :angry:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 22, 2022, 10:37:44 AM
2021? I would think 2020 with the lock downs would be more a target for their ire.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on August 22, 2022, 10:56:38 AM
2020 was a long, long time ago - almost mythical.

2021 was just last year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on August 22, 2022, 11:14:38 AM
Things opened back up again in 2021. But I guess they are talking about vaccines, that new and unproven technology. That must be what Syt's family is mad about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on August 23, 2022, 07:21:03 PM
It seems some people in Ontario are somewhat dissatisfied of Doug Ford's management of their province.

(https://i.redd.it/1i4tristkhj91.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 07, 2022, 10:56:26 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/226428168_10158539337348019_8140653432285087857_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TPfohScmXJQAX-kx8uN&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-JAKYGAXfOm5fah9fJi-Vv4MT07vfblYh1p5a-yQX4mg&oe=631DEAFB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 08, 2022, 12:21:18 AM
Ranting about a product you're trying to sell in an ad seems like poor salesmanship.  Maybe if he tried harder to write an appealing ad, I wouldn't keep seeing it year after year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 08, 2022, 12:22:14 AM
What makes it funny is that this person relied heavily on e.g. church charities and government welfare for many years to support her family of 6. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 08, 2022, 10:54:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 07, 2022, 10:56:26 PM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/226428168_10158539337348019_8140653432285087857_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TPfohScmXJQAX-kx8uN&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-JAKYGAXfOm5fah9fJi-Vv4MT07vfblYh1p5a-yQX4mg&oe=631DEAFB)
Hasn't this been posted before?  I'd swear I've seen it a few pages back? :)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 08, 2022, 11:55:19 AM
I think it is on the meme rotation for Syt's family.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 12, 2022, 10:45:02 PM
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/298904067_1106791036856505_5151105412656036359_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=h2dMmxJ3tvsAX_sCs1E&_nc_oc=AQlns4j4toFSqc9ckBzR9jGgf6FEzPfyAK9YzHsczlLHcEFGti5wIlT31n9jvpX5hOs&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT-b1zenDowhlrNDa1JTA7L4juFFFefFSMUGeP1tyLgGJg&oe=6325B656)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 12, 2022, 11:13:39 PM
So trump has a lot more to hide?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 12, 2022, 11:18:14 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 12, 2022, 11:13:39 PMSo trump has a lot more to hide?

Yeah.  The Fifth Amendment is the right not to incriminate oneself.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 13, 2022, 03:14:05 PM
I don't think HRC gave a deposition relating to her email server inquiry (the subpoena in the Judicial Watch case was quashed), so her opportunity space for invoking the 5th was a lot smaller than Trump's

That said, I don't have reason to believe she would have invoked it had a deposition gone forward.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 13, 2022, 04:57:27 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 12, 2022, 10:45:02 PM(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/298904067_1106791036856505_5151105412656036359_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=h2dMmxJ3tvsAX_sCs1E&_nc_oc=AQlns4j4toFSqc9ckBzR9jGgf6FEzPfyAK9YzHsczlLHcEFGti5wIlT31n9jvpX5hOs&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT-b1zenDowhlrNDa1JTA7L4juFFFefFSMUGeP1tyLgGJg&oe=6325B656)

They missed an opportunity of adding the Trump quote from a few years ago that only the guilty plead the 5th - or something to that effect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 14, 2022, 03:01:44 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 13, 2022, 04:57:27 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 12, 2022, 10:45:02 PM(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/298904067_1106791036856505_5151105412656036359_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=h2dMmxJ3tvsAX_sCs1E&_nc_oc=AQlns4j4toFSqc9ckBzR9jGgf6FEzPfyAK9YzHsczlLHcEFGti5wIlT31n9jvpX5hOs&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT-b1zenDowhlrNDa1JTA7L4juFFFefFSMUGeP1tyLgGJg&oe=6325B656)

They missed an opportunity of adding the Trump quote from a few years ago that only the guilty plead the 5th - or something to that effect.
"Only criminals plead the 5th"
Donald J. Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 15, 2022, 12:00:27 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/306915367_3413299868887904_8131987202093019386_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=yGuUzu1AsuwAX9H4aid&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT---JDR1TzaQw3_MiyhUAQczeDZ4nPUrP-yQ2ZA1kkV8A&oe=6328ED8B)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/306361689_3412700232281201_6185210426586238190_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=GESOljLfxOIAX_RfmLW&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_0LjqFdbPq6QfOCm0Ci2AA5WMOQdiJck65pRcv9XWNlg&oe=6328EB92)


(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/306328042_627639508730228_8578912815159952443_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=chUKQaeGxAUAX_WO6sG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_uIwtjsGtiqWO4OLM9_J-VFETZeUM004mQW5jsPuvdnA&oe=6327CF3E)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 15, 2022, 01:37:23 PM
Food trucks? :unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 15, 2022, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 15, 2022, 12:00:27 PM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/306328042_627639508730228_8578912815159952443_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=chUKQaeGxAUAX_WO6sG&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_uIwtjsGtiqWO4OLM9_J-VFETZeUM004mQW5jsPuvdnA&oe=6327CF3E)

So are we supposed to just ignore this guy just casually compared Zelenskyy's democratically elected government of Ukraine with the Taliban and Iran's mullahs?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 15, 2022, 01:40:32 PM
Guess Ukrainians are muslims now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 15, 2022, 01:42:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 15, 2022, 01:39:36 PMSo are we supposed to just ignore this guy just casually compared Zelenskyy's democratically elected government of Ukraine with the Taliban and Iran's mullahs?

They're all FOREIGNERS.  :mad: :x
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 16, 2022, 01:00:49 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305630795_1487454921667817_1270281754368530978_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rcZ6tVJOc0gAX-YxM-9&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-jr-GCNVXrtwL-RFsCsLvD-ESBM6GVIbfCBm4xSD6CTA&oe=632822C9)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305760655_10160306371689936_5413412975999033890_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=P6ZTJgpFnkEAX_CffWX&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-dMIZhaoFDoAFNFYLYQv8-fM8aaU_Oxup7A8uOp4VgGA&oe=6328570F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 16, 2022, 02:52:24 AM
Awesome. Been a while since I saw baby-fasc hating on the concept of electric cars. Most I run into these days are all for electric cars, seeing them as the best way to avoid meaningful change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2022, 03:02:49 AM
Replacement of all ICE vehicles with EV is not a meaningful change?  :mellow:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 16, 2022, 03:04:35 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2022, 03:02:49 AMReplacement of all ICE vehicles with EV is not a meaningful change?  :mellow:
Its an impossible dream which distracts from the actual needed changes of reducing our reliance on cars overall.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 16, 2022, 03:12:57 AM
I've driven a tesla for around 4 years now and never had a range problem.  Although I live in the civilized and urbanized northeast and not the proto-Mad Max dystopian wasteland of rural and exurban Texas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on September 16, 2022, 12:21:12 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 16, 2022, 03:12:57 AMI've driven a tesla for around 4 years now and never had a range problem.  Although I live in the civilized and urbanized northeast and not the proto-Mad Max dystopian wasteland of rural and exurban Texas.
Believe it or not there are tons of Teslas on the roads here (three on my street alone) and plenty of places to charge them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on September 16, 2022, 12:36:39 PM
Quote from: Caliga on September 16, 2022, 12:21:12 PMBelieve it or not there are tons of Teslas on the roads here (three on my street alone) and plenty of places to charge them.

Well duh, they converted all the gas stations to diners there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 16, 2022, 12:44:59 PM
Tons of Teslas here as well but granted I live in the awesome part of Texas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 16, 2022, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 16, 2022, 03:04:35 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2022, 03:02:49 AMReplacement of all ICE vehicles with EV is not a meaningful change?  :mellow:
Its an impossible dream which distracts from the actual needed changes of reducing our reliance on cars overall.
Yeah, this shit just reinforces my notion that the parties get together to coordinate the week's outrage porn.  Democrats will say we need electric cars while ignoring the fossil fuels which power the electricity and the need for less horrible public transportation. Republicans then get triggered and howl about how lectric cars are teh Satan and soyboybetacuckinsertcraphere.

Nothing will change one way or the other.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2022, 05:50:14 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 16, 2022, 03:04:35 AMIts an impossible dream which distracts from the actual needed changes of reducing our reliance on cars overall.

Why is it impossible?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 16, 2022, 10:01:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2022, 05:50:14 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 16, 2022, 03:04:35 AMIts an impossible dream which distracts from the actual needed changes of reducing our reliance on cars overall.

Why is it impossible?

Forget it, he's rolling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 16, 2022, 10:41:28 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 16, 2022, 10:01:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2022, 05:50:14 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 16, 2022, 03:04:35 AMIts an impossible dream which distracts from the actual needed changes of reducing our reliance on cars overall.

Why is it impossible?

Forget it, he's rolling.

But only on a bicycle, because cars are evil :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 16, 2022, 11:03:46 PM
Has nobody else figured out the truth about Tyr? Am I  the only one? He's a Centaur.  That's why he hates cars.  He can never drive one.  Jesus, it's fucking obvious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 01:22:55 AM
I hate cars because I've got a brain and I give a shit about the world.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2022, 05:50:14 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 16, 2022, 03:04:35 AMIts an impossible dream which distracts from the actual needed changes of reducing our reliance on cars overall.

Why is it impossible?

If you're being captain literal then impossible is the wrong word of course. More impractical.
But basically the problem is material shortages. We would need to ramp up mining of key materials to an insane degree which just isn't going to happen, especially in the time scales needed.

To replace all cars in just the UK for example -

QuoteThere are currently 31.5 million cars on the UK roads, covering 252.5 billion miles per year.

If we wanted to replace all these with electric vehicles today (assuming they use the most resource-frugal next-generation batteries), it would take the following:

207,900 tonnes of cobalt - just under twice the annual global production
264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate (LCE) - three quarters the world's production
at least 7,200 tonnes of neodymium and dysprosium - nearly the entire world production of neodymium
2,362,500 tonnes of copper - more than half the world's production in 2018
Even if we only wanted to ensure an annual supply of electric vehicles, from 2035 as pledged, the UK would need to annually import the equivalent of the entire annual cobalt needs of European industry


https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2019/june/we-need-more-metals-and-elements-reach-uks-greenhouse-goals.html
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on September 17, 2022, 01:56:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 16, 2022, 11:03:46 PMHas nobody else figured out the truth about Tyr? Am I  the only one? He's a Centaur.  That's why he hates cars.  He can never drive one.  Jesus, it's fucking obvious.

He inhabits a plane that straddles the line between myth and reality, true, but he is not a Centaur I don't think.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 17, 2022, 02:38:42 AM
A reasonable point Squeeze.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 06:42:29 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 01:22:55 AMI hate cars because I've got a brain and I give a shit about the world.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2022, 05:50:14 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 16, 2022, 03:04:35 AMIts an impossible dream which distracts from the actual needed changes of reducing our reliance on cars overall.

Why is it impossible?

If you're being captain literal then impossible is the wrong word of course. More impractical.
But basically the problem is material shortages. We would need to ramp up mining of key materials to an insane degree which just isn't going to happen, especially in the time scales needed.

To replace all cars in just the UK for example -

QuoteThere are currently 31.5 million cars on the UK roads, covering 252.5 billion miles per year.

If we wanted to replace all these with electric vehicles today (assuming they use the most resource-frugal next-generation batteries), it would take the following:

207,900 tonnes of cobalt - just under twice the annual global production
264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate (LCE) - three quarters the world's production
at least 7,200 tonnes of neodymium and dysprosium - nearly the entire world production of neodymium
2,362,500 tonnes of copper - more than half the world's production in 2018
Even if we only wanted to ensure an annual supply of electric vehicles, from 2035 as pledged, the UK would need to annually import the equivalent of the entire annual cobalt needs of European industry


https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2019/june/we-need-more-metals-and-elements-reach-uks-greenhouse-goals.html


The problem with the analysis is that all cars will not be replaced today. 

The "annual supply" math also looks dubious.

There will be issues of transition, and particularly the need for many more charging stations, and more electrical generation from none fossil fuel sources.  But still doable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on September 17, 2022, 06:49:02 AM
One thing that feels like is ignored with EVs is the batteries. Once we have most combustion engine cars replaced with electric ones, one would think there would be a LOT of batteries to constantly mine resources for and build. I don't think that fits into this image of EVs giving you this perfectly green way of travelling, and Josq has a point there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 07:51:51 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 06:42:29 AM]

The problem with the analysis is that all cars will not be replaced today. 

The "annual supply" math also looks dubious.

There will be issues of transition, and particularly the need for many more charging stations, and more electrical generation from none fossil fuel sources.  But still doable.

Obviously it won't all be done overnight. See the last paragraph of my quoted bit there.
If one country mid sized country requires a years worth of the world's supply to replace all its cars (not to mention the future upgrades, need for replacement batteries, etc..) then thats a freaking huge amount no matter the timescale.

Don't get me wrong. EVs are better than ICE. But the idea we can just keep going with life entirely as we know it just swapping petrol for electric is a conservative delusion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 08:10:33 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 07:51:51 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 06:42:29 AM]

The problem with the analysis is that all cars will not be replaced today. 

The "annual supply" math also looks dubious.

There will be issues of transition, and particularly the need for many more charging stations, and more electrical generation from none fossil fuel sources.  But still doable.

Obviously it won't all be done overnight. See the last paragraph of my quoted bit there.
If one country mid sized country requires a years worth of the world's supply to replace all its cars (not to mention the future upgrades, need for replacement batteries, etc..) then thats a freaking huge amount no matter the timescale.

Don't get me wrong. EVs are better than ICE. But the idea we can just keep going with life entirely as we know it just swapping petrol for electric is a conservative delusion.

I addressed the last paragraph, the math is dubious. 

Also, I don't know anybody who is serious about climate change suggesting that we can just keep on going the way we are. You are using electric cars as some kind of proxy for an argument that I don't think anybody is making.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 17, 2022, 08:21:01 AM
This analysis doesn't account for changing technology.

Presumably battery and electric motor tech isn't static, and in fact will see raw materials costs decline over time, and possibly be replaced by more sustainable raw materials.

I don't know if we will ever get to complete replacement, but the perfect cannot be the enemy of the better. This is a process, and what matters is that we keep getting better, and do that as quickly as possible.

Not sit here and imagine that the effort cannot work because we cannot imagine anything ever changing from the current bottlenecks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 08:30:02 AM
QuoteThis analysis doesn't account for changing technology.

Presumably battery and electric motor tech isn't static, and in fact will see raw materials costs decline over time, and possibly be replaced by more sustainable raw materials.

I don't know if we will ever get to complete replacement, but the perfect cannot be the enemy of the better. This is a process, and what matters is that we keep getting better, and do that as quickly as possible.

Not sit here and imagine that the effort cannot work because we cannot imagine anything ever changing from the current bottlenecks.
Yes... A usual deflection. Don't worry about it as inevitably  super tech will be along to save us.

Climate change is a problem in the here and now. We are already beyond the point where we can stop it completely. We need to do all we can to minimise the damage. Just continuing exactly as we are confident everyone will have an electric car in 20 years then problem solved is just avoiding taking the real action that is required.

Quote from: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 08:10:33 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 07:51:51 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 06:42:29 AM]

The problem with the analysis is that all cars will not be replaced today. 

The "annual supply" math also looks dubious.

There will be issues of transition, and particularly the need for many more charging stations, and more electrical generation from none fossil fuel sources.  But still doable.

Obviously it won't all be done overnight. See the last paragraph of my quoted bit there.
If one country mid sized country requires a years worth of the world's supply to replace all its cars (not to mention the future upgrades, need for replacement batteries, etc..) then thats a freaking huge amount no matter the timescale.

Don't get me wrong. EVs are better than ICE. But the idea we can just keep going with life entirely as we know it just swapping petrol for electric is a conservative delusion.

I addressed the last paragraph, the math is dubious. 

Also, I don't know anybody who is serious about climate change suggesting that we can just keep on going the way we are. You are using electric cars as some kind of proxy for an argument that I don't think anybody is making.

The maths are dubious as are all maths when dealing with such insane and imprecise numbers.
Picking fault with the exact numbers misses the point however. That they are on broadly that scale is a fact that just isn't getting through.

Kind of a weird qualifier to set there, people who are serious about climate change. It's not these people who make up the majority of the population and are the issue with this approach. It's those who aren't that interested and will eagrly avoid doing too much to help.
Musk and Co certainly are pushing this strain of thought out there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 08:40:43 AM
I don't understand your argument. The math put forward in the analysis you quoted is not wrong because it is difficult to be precise about the future.  It is clearly wrong because it makes the wrong assumptions. There is no point in calculating how many raw materials it will take to replace all cars in one year. That is never going to happen. Actually the fact that it is a close run thing to replace all cars in one year makes a gradual transition not only feasible but easy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 09:04:56 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 08:40:43 AMI don't understand your argument. The math put forward in the analysis you quoted is not wrong because it is difficult to be precise about the future.  It is clearly wrong because it makes the wrong assumptions. There is no point in calculating how many raw materials it will take to replace all cars in one year. That is never going to happen. Actually the fact that it is a close run thing to replace all cars in one year makes a gradual transition not only feasible but easy.

Its looking just at the UK and amount needed to replace all 31 million cars in one year.

In a typical year globally 70 million+ cars are sold.

It's not rocket science to convert the numbers over to a realistic scenario away from the theoretical. The actual numbers are WORSE than those presented.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 17, 2022, 09:20:49 AM
It's not rocket science to understand that numbers based on the assumption that technology will not change over time are presented purely as emotional props, not serious intellectual data.

Replacing ICE vehicles with electric ones is an undeniable good from a climate change perspective.  Claiming that it is not good because it does not solve all of the climate problems (or simply "distracts" us from the problems) is absurd.  As is virtue signalling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 09:37:19 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 09:04:56 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 08:40:43 AMI don't understand your argument. The math put forward in the analysis you quoted is not wrong because it is difficult to be precise about the future.  It is clearly wrong because it makes the wrong assumptions. There is no point in calculating how many raw materials it will take to replace all cars in one year. That is never going to happen. Actually the fact that it is a close run thing to replace all cars in one year makes a gradual transition not only feasible but easy.

Its looking just at the UK and amount needed to replace all 31 million cars in one year.

In a typical year globally 70 million+ cars are sold.

It's not rocket science to convert the numbers over to a realistic scenario away from the theoretical. The actual numbers are WORSE than those presented.

Yes, but the point you are missing is that 70 million electric cars are not going to be sold this year and so it makes no sense doing an analysis based on the production of raw materials this year.  Mining exploration, development and production are all fine tuned to meet current needs.  Not future needs.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 09:40:15 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2022, 09:20:49 AMIt's not rocket science to understand that numbers based on the assumption that technology will not change over time are presented purely as emotional props, not serious intellectual data.

I agree, but even if technology does not change over time (which is an unrealistic worst case horrible hypothetical) the analysis still makes no sense as it assumes that increased demand will not create the economic impetus for increased resource development.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on September 17, 2022, 09:58:04 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 17, 2022, 08:21:01 AMPresumably battery and electric motor tech isn't static, and in fact will see raw materials costs decline over time, and possibly be replaced by more sustainable raw materials.


I mean you could equally accurately say, "presumably raw material costs will explode over time as the market shifts toward battery and electric motors, and demand increases for scarce resources."

Over a century ago, someone saying, "presumably gas powered tech isn't static, and oil costs will decline over time, possibly replaced by more sustainable raw materials" maybe you will eventually be proven right, but oil interests are doing okay at the moment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on September 17, 2022, 10:42:59 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 08:30:02 AMYes... A usual deflection. Don't worry about it as inevitably  super tech will be along to save us.

Climate change is a problem in the here and now. We are already beyond the point where we can stop it completely. We need to do all we can to minimise the damage. Just continuing exactly as we are confident everyone will have an electric car in 20 years then problem solved is just avoiding taking the real action that is required.


Josq. I'm sorry to say this, but that's straight up hypocracy on your part, given you're someone who seems to jump on a airplane every other month.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 17, 2022, 10:57:54 AM
The number that got me was the last one, 70% of Europe's cobalt consumption just to supply new vehicle purchases.  Just in the UK. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 11:02:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 17, 2022, 10:57:54 AMThe number that got me was the last one, 70% of Europe's cobalt consumption just to supply new vehicle purchases.  Just in the UK. 

Think a little bit more carefully about how that figure is calculated
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 11:21:22 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 17, 2022, 10:42:59 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 08:30:02 AMYes... A usual deflection. Don't worry about it as inevitably  super tech will be along to save us.

Climate change is a problem in the here and now. We are already beyond the point where we can stop it completely. We need to do all we can to minimise the damage. Just continuing exactly as we are confident everyone will have an electric car in 20 years then problem solved is just avoiding taking the real action that is required.


Josq. I'm sorry to say this, but that's straight up hypocracy on your part, given you're someone who seems to jump on a airplane every other month.


1: not that commonly at all. July was a weird month with a necessary work trip shortly before my summer holidays.
2: where feasible I avoid flying. The trouble is the current world is setup to make this infeasible where it really shouldn't be.

More broadly than me, the problem isn't people flying around on low cost flights. They should try to curb this and seek to avoid it where remotely possible but that's very minor stuff for tackling climate change. You're not going to get many people who take you up on that to a large degree .
The problem is that people are incentivised to take cheap flights due to the expense and crap service of travel by rail.

Quote from: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 09:40:15 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 17, 2022, 09:20:49 AMIt's not rocket science to understand that numbers based on the assumption that technology will not change over time are presented purely as emotional props, not serious intellectual data.

I agree, but even if technology does not change over time (which is an unrealistic worst case horrible hypothetical) the analysis still makes no sense as it assumes that increased demand will not create the economic impetus for increased resource development.



Which again is leaning into the fallacy of "we will just mine more and it will be cheaper". These are finite resources found only in certain areas and there's increasing political opposition to mining in many of these places.

It's daft to just hand wave away any concerns about the availability of raw resources by saying "we will just mine more!"
Obviously the analysis doesn't account for future growth. Its ridiculous to read it and dismiss it with an "ah but 1000kg more copper will be made next year" or the like.
 The numbers account for what they can and present the immense scale of the future growth needed. A level which any rational person can see stretches feasibility.
This confidence that problems will just solve themselves is what got us in this mess in the first place.

Quote from: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 11:02:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 17, 2022, 10:57:54 AMThe number that got me was the last one, 70% of Europe's cobalt consumption just to supply new vehicle purchases.  Just in the UK. 

Think a little bit more carefully about how that figure is calculated

There's no problem with it.
The most efficient electric cars require x cobalt.
Europe consumes y cobalt.
There are z cars in the UK.
Simple maths to work out the percentage there and see its pretty damn big.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 17, 2022, 11:26:44 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 17, 2022, 10:42:59 AMJosq. I'm sorry to say this, but that's straight up hypocracy on your part, given you're someone who seems to jump on a airplane every other month.

Don't worry, technological advances will soon give us electrical planes at affordable prices.  Resource production will inevitably expand to meet requirements to support environmentally responsible flying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 17, 2022, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 11:21:22 AMThere's no problem with it.
The most efficient electric cars require x cobalt.
Europe consumes y cobalt.
There are z cars in the UK.
Simple maths to work out the percentage there and see its pretty damn big.

There's enormous problems with it.
1. The most efficient electric cars require X cobalt TODAY
2. Europe consumes y cobalt TODAY
3. There are z cars in the UK TODAY, but only about 400k of them are electric TODAY
4.  Simple maths tell us that the UK's consumption of cobalt for EVs TODAY is a small fraction of the EU's consumption of cobalt.

Now, if you want to project the use of cobalt by UK EVs into the future, you also have to project the production of cobalt into the future.  Your projection of cobalt use by EK EVs should also include the understanding that future batteries, such as solid-state batteries, will not consume the same materials and that current cobalt production is sufficiently small-scale that, left unchanged, it won't deplete currently known reserves by half for 7,000 years.

The whole "cobalt panic' thing is intellectually unsound.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on September 17, 2022, 02:12:31 PM
Out of curiosity, I've taken a look at cobalt production on wiki. Apparently worldwide cobalt is mostly obtained as a by-product of copper and nickel mining and smelting, so its global supply is thus directly related to the demand for copper and nickel. Some direct extraction takes place, but it's relatively uncommon as pure cobalt deposits are rare in nature. Currently the largest cobalt production and reserves are located, by far, in DR Congo. The cobalt employed for EV batteries seems to come largely from this direct extraction method.

So, it seems to me that global lack of cobalt is not really an issue on a purely technical level. Direct extraction, which seems to be the method preferred by the EV battery industry, seems to have plenty of untapped potential. There are other issues, though, of a more ethical consideration, as mining in DR Congo is a notoriously dirty affair, so empowering the cobalt mining industry there might contribute to worsening issues such as corruption, child labour, environmental protection, and so on.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 17, 2022, 04:12:49 PM
Agree that the conditions in DRC are shit, but don't see cobalt mining as the reason.  It's not like things are fine there for everyone but the cobalt miners.  Increased mining seems most likely to move people from impoverished unemployment to impoverished employment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 17, 2022, 04:19:52 PM
Quote from: The Larch on September 17, 2022, 02:12:31 PMOut of curiosity, I've taken a look at cobalt production on wiki. Apparently worldwide cobalt is mostly obtained as a by-product of copper and nickel mining and smelting, so its global supply is thus directly related to the demand for copper and nickel. Some direct extraction takes place, but it's relatively uncommon as pure cobalt deposits are rare in nature. Currently the largest cobalt production and reserves are located, by far, in DR Congo. The cobalt employed for EV batteries seems to come largely from this direct extraction method.

So, it seems to me that global lack of cobalt is not really an issue on a purely technical level. Direct extraction, which seems to be the method preferred by the EV battery industry, seems to have plenty of untapped potential. There are other issues, though, of a more ethical consideration, as mining in DR Congo is a notoriously dirty affair, so empowering the cobalt mining industry there might contribute to worsening issues such as corruption, child labour, environmental protection, and so on.

As the demand for cobalt rises the price of cobalt rises.  As the price rises, It becomes more economic to mine copper in order to obtain the byproduct of cobalt. I don't wanna get too far into the weeds but mine life is entirely a function of the cost of extracting the ore.

They were very few mines in BC Which shut down because they run out of ore. 
It's just that the cost of extracting the ore does not make the operation viable.

In short, when the price justifies the operational expense, There will be more cobalt available for purchase.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 17, 2022, 07:57:39 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 17, 2022, 08:30:02 AM
QuoteThis analysis doesn't account for changing technology.

Presumably battery and electric motor tech isn't static, and in fact will see raw materials costs decline over time, and possibly be replaced by more sustainable raw materials.

I don't know if we will ever get to complete replacement, but the perfect cannot be the enemy of the better. This is a process, and what matters is that we keep getting better, and do that as quickly as possible.

Not sit here and imagine that the effort cannot work because we cannot imagine anything ever changing from the current bottlenecks.

Yes... A usual deflection. Don't worry about it as inevitably  super tech will be along to save us.

Climate change is a problem in the here and now. We are already beyond the point where we can stop it completely. We need to do all we can to minimise the damage. Just continuing exactly as we are confident everyone will have an electric car in 20 years then problem solved is just avoiding taking the real action that is required.
I am in favor of actually doing things to help the problem, you are apparently in favor of not doing things because the things done cannot perfectly solve the problem.

Who is deflecting?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 17, 2022, 11:18:48 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/307135329_410206374626105_1986429409765708600_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=8IN0nS3RM7QAX9sXN34&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT94Z6OezKcB1fefzRasEnKHlL7owjW6iX-b4oqnpDb22w&oe=632AE135)


Interesting that they decided to photoshop DeSantis' face onto a movie character who's a sadistic slaveholder who loves French, but hey ...

(https://static1.personality-database.com/profile_images/88d9cf2207034308a45c4a06cee0a72e.png)

(Tbf, they probably used it because of how the image's popularity in crappy memes)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:11:02 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 17, 2022, 07:57:39 PM[
I am in favor of actually doing things to help the problem, you are apparently in favor of not doing things because the things done cannot perfectly solve the problem.

Who is deflecting?

That's completely the opposite of what is being said here.
The original problem mentioned which started all this was the rise of a new Conservative attitude of people who (claim to) believe in climate change but who don't think we need to do anything as inevitably just switching to electric cars will be enough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on September 18, 2022, 02:14:50 AM
I'd say that Jos is trying to outline the scale of the problem.

But then I broadly agree with him; our diffident acts to sort out climate change are grossly inadequate, we will need a complete re-engineering of our economic model to avoid catastrophic damage.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2022, 02:20:59 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:11:02 AMThat's completely the opposite of what is being said here.
The original problem mentioned which started all this was the rise of a new Conservative attitude of people who (claim to) believe in climate change but who don't think we need to do anything as inevitably just switching to electric cars will be enough.

I have no exposure to the conservative people who think and talk this way.  Can you point out a couple to me?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:23:49 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2022, 02:20:59 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:11:02 AMThat's completely the opposite of what is being said here.
The original problem mentioned which started all this was the rise of a new Conservative attitude of people who (claim to) believe in climate change but who don't think we need to do anything as inevitably just switching to electric cars will be enough.

I have no exposure to the conservative people who think and talk this way.  Can you point out a couple to me?

You asked this already. Musk is the key one (albeit less inevitability and more buy buy buy from him).

Nobody will outright say this is their outlook so its hard to identify politicians following this approach. Truss seems a potential.

They are increasingly common online. Really seems to be where conservatism is evolving to as outright denial looks ever stupider.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2022, 02:57:24 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:23:49 AMYou asked this already. Musk is the key one (albeit less inevitability and more buy buy buy from him).

Nobody will outright say this is their outlook so its hard to identify politicians following this approach. Truss seems a potential.

They are increasingly common online. Really seems to be where conservatism is evolving to as outright denial looks ever stupider.

Are the ones online saying it out loud, or are you reading their minds too?  :P

Seriously bro, it can be a little problematic when you state an inference (or something you made up if I'm being unkind) as fact.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 05:44:59 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2022, 02:57:24 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:23:49 AMYou asked this already. Musk is the key one (albeit less inevitability and more buy buy buy from him).

Nobody will outright say this is their outlook so its hard to identify politicians following this approach. Truss seems a potential.

They are increasingly common online. Really seems to be where conservatism is evolving to as outright denial looks ever stupider.

Are the ones online saying it out loud, or are you reading their minds too?  :P

Seriously bro, it can be a little problematic when you state an inference (or something you made up if I'm being unkind) as fact.

I am seeing it outright from people online and Musk.
From politicians it lines up with what they have said and seems logical that this is what they're going for.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 18, 2022, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:11:02 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 17, 2022, 07:57:39 PM[
I am in favor of actually doing things to help the problem, you are apparently in favor of not doing things because the things done cannot perfectly solve the problem.

Who is deflecting?


That's completely the opposite of what is being said here.
The original problem mentioned which started all this was the rise of a new Conservative attitude of people who (claim to) believe in climate change but who don't think we need to do anything as inevitably just switching to electric cars will be enough.
Who here has taken up that claim?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 18, 2022, 08:53:59 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 05:44:59 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2022, 02:57:24 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:23:49 AMYou asked this already. Musk is the key one (albeit less inevitability and more buy buy buy from him).

Nobody will outright say this is their outlook so its hard to identify politicians following this approach. Truss seems a potential.

They are increasingly common online. Really seems to be where conservatism is evolving to as outright denial looks ever stupider.

Are the ones online saying it out loud, or are you reading their minds too?  :P

Seriously bro, it can be a little problematic when you state an inference (or something you made up if I'm being unkind) as fact.

I am seeing it outright from people online and Musk.
From politicians it lines up with what they have said and seems logical that this is what they're going for.
Show me where Musk has said that climate change can be solved by everyone switching to electric cars.

Show me where anyone has said that.

Or not, since even if you can....so what? 

You found someone stupid saying something stupid? Congratulations?

The idea that this is some kind of mainstream concept sweeping the world is....bizarre.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 18, 2022, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 18, 2022, 02:14:50 AMI'd say that Jos is trying to outline the scale of the problem.

But then I broadly agree with him; our diffident acts to sort out climate change are grossly inadequate, we will need a complete re-engineering of our economic model to avoid catastrophic damage.

Why do we need to re-engineer our economic model?  The current model explains and predicts economic behavior quite well, except in the a few rare cases.

And how could we re-engineer our economic model?  The existing model was developed using, in modern times, the scientific method.  If we abandon the scientific method to build economic models, what do we replace it with?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 18, 2022, 09:04:17 AM
Everything tyr doesn't like is right wing. I'm surprised he hasn't claimed France is a vast right wing conspiracy :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 18, 2022, 09:07:05 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 18, 2022, 09:04:17 AMEverything tyr doesn't like is right wing. I'm surprised he hasn't claimed France is a vast right wing conspiracy :P

That's the nature of virtue-signaling.  The enemy must be powerful,  monolithic, and evil or the virtue-signaler isn't a superhero.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 18, 2022, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 18, 2022, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 18, 2022, 02:14:50 AMI'd say that Jos is trying to outline the scale of the problem.

But then I broadly agree with him; our diffident acts to sort out climate change are grossly inadequate, we will need a complete re-engineering of our economic model to avoid catastrophic damage.

Why do we need to re-engineer our economic model?  The current model explains and predicts economic behavior quite well, except in the a few rare cases.

And how could we re-engineer our economic model?  The existing model was developed using, in modern times, the scientific method.  If we abandon the scientific method to build economic models, what do we replace it with?

I agree with Richard, we, and here I mean the greenhouse emitting populations of the world, are not cutting our emissions quickly enough to avoid 1.5c of warming.

One explanation for that is the risks and costs of climate change are not, and perhaps cannot, be sufficiently recognized without significant political action and especially regulation.

But we lack the political will to do that.  To add to the problem we also seem to lack the political will to invest approximately in mitigation of the effects of climate change.

I am not sure some form of dramatic economic and political change is avoidable once a critical mass of us realize the status quo is not tenable.  What that change might be, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 18, 2022, 09:57:11 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 18, 2022, 09:07:05 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 18, 2022, 09:04:17 AMEverything tyr doesn't like is right wing. I'm surprised he hasn't claimed France is a vast right wing conspiracy :P

That's the nature of virtue-signaling.  The enemy must be powerful,  monolithic, and evil or the virtue-signaler isn't a superhero.
Indeed. 

It is a way of gaining status. You set yourself up as the hero in the story.

It's the same reason conspiracy theories are so popular. You get to be the "smart one" who knows the truth everyone else is too stupid to see.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 18, 2022, 10:29:05 AM
I think that's adding to much of a nefarious intention. It's simple. Cars=bad. Pollution is just another con to cars. Take away pollution and they're still bad. All bad things are right wing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 18, 2022, 11:05:41 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 18, 2022, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 18, 2022, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 18, 2022, 02:14:50 AMI'd say that Jos is trying to outline the scale of the problem.

But then I broadly agree with him; our diffident acts to sort out climate change are grossly inadequate, we will need a complete re-engineering of our economic model to avoid catastrophic damage.

Why do we need to re-engineer our economic model?  The current model explains and predicts economic behavior quite well, except in the a few rare cases.

And how could we re-engineer our economic model?  The existing model was developed using, in modern times, the scientific method.  If we abandon the scientific method to build economic models, what do we replace it with?

I agree with Richard, we, and here I mean the greenhouse emitting populations of the world, are not cutting our emissions quickly enough to avoid 1.5c of warming.

One explanation for that is the risks and costs of climate change are not, and perhaps cannot, be sufficiently recognized without significant political action and especially regulation.

But we lack the political will to do that.  To add to the problem we also seem to lack the political will to invest approximately in mitigation of the effects of climate change.

I am not sure some form of dramatic economic and political change is avoidable once a critical mass of us realize the status quo is not tenable.  What that change might be, I have no idea.

I don't agree with you or Richard that any of this has to do with our economic model.  The supply and demand model seems to explain the broad economic system quite well.  The problem isn't the economic model, it is the various political systems which incentivize short-term economic thinking among the world's leading politicians.

It isn't like there is a big mystery as to how to reduce carbon emissions: cap and trade worked extraordinarily well in the US to reduce sulphur, mercury, and particulate emissions (meeting target goals of 99+% reduction a full decade ahead of schedule). The problem is that cap and trade on carbon would increase prices, and politicians fear that they won't get re-elected if they impose rules that raise prices.

No, the economic model works well.  It is the political model that fails us.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:19:34 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 18, 2022, 08:52:00 AMWho here has taken up that claim?

Nobody. It helps to read the start of the discussion before jumping in.

QuoteShow me where Musk has said that climate change can be solved by everyone switching to electric cars.

Show me where anyone has said that.

Or not, since even if you can....so what?

So this is one of those cases where failure to provide a verbatim quote of him literally saying this means its completely false?
The Vegas loop nonsense and his opposition to high speed rail much?


QuoteEverything tyr doesn't like is right wing. 
You're speaking like this is some kind of failing on my part.
It's kind of standard that left wing people aren't big on right wing ideas and vice versa

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 18, 2022, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:19:34 AMYou're speaking like this is some kind of failing on my part.
It's kind of standard that left wing people aren't big on right wing ideas and vice versa



No, it's not that you don't like it because it's right wing, you think it's right wing because you don't like it. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:32:48 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 18, 2022, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:19:34 AMYou're speaking like this is some kind of failing on my part.
It's kind of standard that left wing people aren't big on right wing ideas and vice versa



No, it's not that you don't like it because it's right wing, you think it's right wing because you don't like it. 

That's just stupid. Completely at odds with the way I approach things.

I dislike cars because of the negatives around them. I'm not passionate about the negatives because I dislike cars. Is this how you approach the world?

That the auto lobby, opposition to public transport and sensible urban design, and "war against cars" paranoia is largely  from the right is a fact.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 18, 2022, 11:40:40 AM
You can dislike cars for whatever reason you like. Plenty do, our very own sheilbh dislikes them too. The extra jump you make is that not disliking cars is right-wing. And then the cherry on top is that EVs of all things are a right wing initiative to keep cars on the road. But you do you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 18, 2022, 12:21:08 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:32:48 AM
Quote from: HVC on September 18, 2022, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:19:34 AMYou're speaking like this is some kind of failing on my part.
It's kind of standard that left wing people aren't big on right wing ideas and vice versa



No, it's not that you don't like it because it's right wing, you think it's right wing because you don't like it. 

That's just stupid. Completely at odds with the way I approach things.

I dislike cars because of the negatives around them. I'm not passionate about the negatives because I dislike cars. Is this how you approach the world?

That the auto lobby, opposition to public transport and sensible urban design, and "war against cars" paranoia is largely  from the right is a fact.

What ever you say, Anglo-Centauri.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 18, 2022, 12:43:32 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 18, 2022, 11:05:41 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 18, 2022, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 18, 2022, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 18, 2022, 02:14:50 AMI'd say that Jos is trying to outline the scale of the problem.

But then I broadly agree with him; our diffident acts to sort out climate change are grossly inadequate, we will need a complete re-engineering of our economic model to avoid catastrophic damage.

Why do we need to re-engineer our economic model?  The current model explains and predicts economic behavior quite well, except in the a few rare cases.

And how could we re-engineer our economic model?  The existing model was developed using, in modern times, the scientific method.  If we abandon the scientific method to build economic models, what do we replace it with?

I agree with Richard, we, and here I mean the greenhouse emitting populations of the world, are not cutting our emissions quickly enough to avoid 1.5c of warming.

One explanation for that is the risks and costs of climate change are not, and perhaps cannot, be sufficiently recognized without significant political action and especially regulation.

But we lack the political will to do that.  To add to the problem we also seem to lack the political will to invest approximately in mitigation of the effects of climate change.

I am not sure some form of dramatic economic and political change is avoidable once a critical mass of us realize the status quo is not tenable.  What that change might be, I have no idea.

I don't agree with you or Richard that any of this has to do with our economic model.  The supply and demand model seems to explain the broad economic system quite well.  The problem isn't the economic model, it is the various political systems which incentivize short-term economic thinking among the world's leading politicians.

It isn't like there is a big mystery as to how to reduce carbon emissions: cap and trade worked extraordinarily well in the US to reduce sulphur, mercury, and particulate emissions (meeting target goals of 99+% reduction a full decade ahead of schedule). The problem is that cap and trade on carbon would increase prices, and politicians fear that they won't get re-elected if they impose rules that raise prices.

No, the economic model works well.  It is the political model that fails us.

If this was simply a matter which simplistic economic models of supply and demand could solve, it would already be solved.  And by the way, once you recognize that this is also a political issue, you are necessarily admitting that government intervention of some sort is required.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 18, 2022, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 18, 2022, 11:40:40 AMYou can dislike cars for whatever reason you like. Plenty do, our very own sheilbh dislikes them too. The extra jump you make is that not disliking cars is right-wing. And then the cherry on top is that EVs of all things are a right wing initiative to keep cars on the road. But you do you.

That's not really what Tyr has been arguing, I don't think.

He is saying thay the transition from IC to EV is 1) insufficient to address global warming, and 2) is less trivial and inevitable than it is often portrayed.

Additionally he is saying that those on the right who acknowledge the reality of global warming tend to act as if the EV transition as projected is in fact sufficient action when it is not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 18, 2022, 12:54:55 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 18, 2022, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 18, 2022, 11:40:40 AMYou can dislike cars for whatever reason you like. Plenty do, our very own sheilbh dislikes them too. The extra jump you make is that not disliking cars is right-wing. And then the cherry on top is that EVs of all things are a right wing initiative to keep cars on the road. But you do you.

That's not really what Tyr has been arguing, I don't think.

He is saying thay the transition from IC to EV is 1) insufficient to address global warming, and 2) is less trivial and inevitable than it is often portrayed.

Additionally he is saying that those on the right who acknowledge the reality of global warming tend to act as if the EV transition as projected is in fact sufficient action when it is not.

While you can give him the benefit of the doubt, he's mentioned in other instances that the right is pushing EVs as a means to ensure cars stay on the road.

He can have a negative view of cars, which I don't always agree with. And he can at times even make good points. That's not what I take issue with in this (and other instances), it's his "I don't like it so it's right wing" tendencies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2022, 01:22:45 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:19:34 AMSo this is one of those cases where failure to provide a verbatim quote of him literally saying this means its completely false?
The Vegas loop nonsense and his opposition to high speed rail much?

This is one of those cases where failure to provide a verbatim quote might lead people to think you are characterizing things in a way they would not agree with.

It doesn't help when you say with one breath that "Musk and online people are saying it outright" then with the next saying this, and suggesting your thesis is an inference built on things like the Vegas loop, which IIRC has already been examined here and pretty much debunked.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 18, 2022, 01:28:35 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:19:34 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 18, 2022, 08:52:00 AMWho here has taken up that claim?

Nobody. It helps to read the start of the discussion before jumping in.

So we have established that you are arguing with nobody here. OK.
Quote
QuoteShow me where Musk has said that climate change can be solved by everyone switching to electric cars.

Show me where anyone has said that.

Or not, since even if you can....so what?


So this is one of those cases where failure to provide a verbatim quote of him literally saying this means its completely false?
THis is a case where you not being able to provide where you got the information that people are saying this "outright" suggests that in fact nobody is actually saying that "outright".

Which then calls into question your entire argument, and whether the rest of it is as unsupported as this part.


QuoteThe Vegas loop nonsense and his opposition to high speed rail much?
QuoteWhat about it? You can think all kinds of things that may or may not be bad ideas without thinking that electric cars are the sole and sufficient solution to global warming.

QuoteEverything tyr doesn't like is right wing. 
You're speaking like this is some kind of failing on my part.
It's kind of standard that left wing people aren't big on right wing ideas and vice versa


That is true for people who are "left wing" not because they think their ideas are better, but because it is their tribe and faith.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:16:54 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 18, 2022, 01:28:35 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:19:34 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 18, 2022, 08:52:00 AMWho here has taken up that claim?

Nobody. It helps to read the start of the discussion before jumping in.

So we have established that you are arguing with nobody here. OK.
Again,it helps to have a clue about the discussion before butting in which from your first post here it's clear you didn't, and even once called out on it haven't.



QuoteTHis is a case where you not being able to provide where you got the information that people are saying this "outright" suggests that in fact nobody is actually saying that "outright".

Which then calls into question your entire argument, and whether the rest of it is as unsupported as this part.
:rolleyes:



QuoteThat is true for people who are "left wing" not because they think their ideas are better, but because it is their tribe and faith.

:lol:
Holy projection batman.

You seriously think opposition to car focused civilization is a mainstream left wing view? I wish it was!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:21:52 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2022, 01:22:45 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 11:19:34 AMSo this is one of those cases where failure to provide a verbatim quote of him literally saying this means its completely false?
The Vegas loop nonsense and his opposition to high speed rail much?

This is one of those cases where failure to provide a verbatim quote might lead people to think you are characterizing things in a way they would not agree with.

It doesn't help when you say with one breath that "Musk and online people are saying it outright" then with the next saying this, and suggesting your thesis is an inference built on things like the Vegas loop, which IIRC has already been examined here and pretty much debunked.

Outright and verbatim are different words.

What was debunked - by ME- was there being a direct quote of Musk admitting hypwrloop exists just to deliberately sabotage California HSR.

That this was even a thing that was made up was because of all the numerous earlier examples of Musk showing this attitude. Its why so many just accepted it as fact without reading the original article.

Eg.

"I think public transport is painful. It sucks. Why do you want to get on something with a lot of other people, that doesn't leave where you want it to leave, doesn't start where you want it to start, doesn't end where you want it to end? And it doesn't go all the time."

"It's a pain in the ass," he continued. "That's why everyone doesn't like it. And there's like a bunch of random strangers, one of who might be a serial killer, OK, great. And so that's why people like individualized transport, that goes where you want, when you want."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:27:45 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 18, 2022, 11:40:40 AMYou can dislike cars for whatever reason you like. Plenty do, our very own sheilbh dislikes them too. The extra jump you make is that not disliking cars is right-wing. And then the cherry on top is that EVs of all things are a right wing initiative to keep cars on the road. But you do you.

This says a lot more about your approach to the world than mine.
Not everyone takes a side and supports everything associated with that side to the death.
Many of us look at the evidence available for individual issues and decide on our views based on that.

I never said not disliking cars was right wing. At all. This is all your imagination.
However the auto lobby is a firmly right wing thing. This is a simple fact.
It's also a increasing trend I'm noticing that there's a big push towards EVs with little being done to fix the broader problems caused by traffic and our car focused civilization. Some hints of active hostility toward this even. This is very firmly conservative in the truest sense of the word.
I mean shit. Prager U even did one of their misinformation videos on the topic of evil leftists coming to take their cars away.
https://youtu.be/k8Lo0ieyQtQ
 
 Ridiculous to project your  sort of world view that it's a case of banana ice cream is right wing because it's bad.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 18, 2022, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 18, 2022, 12:43:32 PMIf this was simply a matter which simplistic economic models of supply and demand could solve, it would already be solved.  And by the way, once you recognize that this is also a political issue, you are necessarily admitting that government intervention of some sort is required.

Supply and demand models are not designed to "solve" things, they are designed to help us understand things.  Once you concede that the problem is actions, not models, you are necessarily admitting that government intervention of some sort is required.  The economic model of supply and demand will explain that, once you bother yourself to understand it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 18, 2022, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:27:45 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 18, 2022, 11:40:40 AMYou can dislike cars for whatever reason you like. Plenty do, our very own sheilbh dislikes them too. The extra jump you make is that not disliking cars is right-wing. And then the cherry on top is that EVs of all things are a right wing initiative to keep cars on the road. But you do you.


Many of us look at the evidence available for individual issues and decide on our views based on that.
Many do, you should give it a shot.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2022, 07:36:52 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:21:52 PMOutright and verbatim are different words.

A link to anyone saying it outright would be groovy.

Or don't bother.  These meta-debates are always pretty pointless and often lead to hard feelings.  And the icing on the cake is that the substantive issue is pretty trivial.  Nothing would change if some conservative loon somewhere had said "since we're all going to be driving EVs we don't need to worry about climate change any more."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 18, 2022, 08:55:07 PM
Centaurs are stubborn beasts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 19, 2022, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 18, 2022, 07:36:52 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:21:52 PMOutright and verbatim are different words.

A link to anyone saying it outright would be groovy.

Or don't bother.  These meta-debates are always pretty pointless and often lead to hard feelings.  And the icing on the cake is that the substantive issue is pretty trivial.  Nothing would change if some conservative loon somewhere had said "since we're all going to be driving EVs we don't need to worry about climate change any more."

I just included the quote?
Seems I missed the link it came from in the post.
https://www-wired-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-awkward-dislike-mass-transit/amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16635287050218&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wired.com%2Fstory%2Felon-musk-awkward-dislike-mass-transit%2F


As mentioned this does seem to be a rising view. You certainly can't say outright denialism hasn't been declining.
I do think it is worth bearing in mind the sort of opposition saving the world faces.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 19, 2022, 12:28:00 PM
Nobody likes mass transit per se.  They just prefer it to alternatives.

Musk's observation that mass transit is inconvenient, etc is not a denial of climate change, no matter how many people mischaracterize his comments.  There'[s a self-serving element to it, to be sure, but that, again, has nothing to do with denying climate change.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 19, 2022, 01:39:07 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:27:45 PMHowever the auto lobby is a firmly right wing thing.

Not sure what its meant by auto lobby.
If it means those political forces that support domestic auto manufacturing, then that would include the auto workers unions.  Not so firmly right wing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 19, 2022, 01:47:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 19, 2022, 12:28:00 PMNobody likes mass transit per se.  They just prefer it to alternatives.

Sure but one of those alternatives is cars.

I'd MUCH rather take amtrak between two NE corridor cities than drive.  Can relax, get work done, and not have to deal with the highway traffic.  It's not even a close call.

True, I'm not as phobic to other human beings as Elon seems to be.  But even if I was, I'd much rather take my chances of getting shanked by a serial killer on the Acela than risk my life dealing with Jersey drivers on the Turnpike. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 19, 2022, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 19, 2022, 01:39:07 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 18, 2022, 02:27:45 PMHowever the auto lobby is a firmly right wing thing.

Not sure what its meant by auto lobby.
If it means those political forces that support domestic auto manufacturing, then that would include the auto workers unions.  Not so firmly right wing.

Ish. Unions for obvious reasons will often find mutual interest with the auto industry but I wouldn't really put them inherently front and centre of the auto lobby.
Even the car industry itself is on the surface a fairly weak part of it these days (though historically they take a lot of blame of course).
When I speak of the auto lobby the main component is "drivers"; or rather right wing populist types who claim to represent all drivers and oppose anything that makes driving in the slightest more inconvenient or expensive.
Maybe in the US its radically different, though this seems unlikely, all evidence I've heard (see the prager u video I posted for instance) suggests it's even more entrenched there and not even hidden. In the UK their right wing links have long been well known.
Eg
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/03/transport.world
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 19, 2022, 03:17:05 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 19, 2022, 12:19:49 PMI just included the quote?

That is not a quote saying "since we have EVs we don't need to do anything else about climate change."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 19, 2022, 03:34:43 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 19, 2022, 01:47:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 19, 2022, 12:28:00 PMNobody likes mass transit per se.  They just prefer it to alternatives.

Sure but one of those alternatives is cars.

I'd MUCH rather take amtrak between two NE corridor cities than drive.  Can relax, get work done, and not have to deal with the highway traffic.  It's not even a close call.

True, I'm not as phobic to other human beings as Elon seems to be.  But even if I was, I'd much rather take my chances of getting shanked by a serial killer on the Acela than risk my life dealing with Jersey drivers on the Turnpike. 


I have used the train a couple of times between Quebec city and Montreal and I quite liked it.  It's a little pricier than using my car, but I have meals and drinks included in first class.  

The real problem arise when I get there.  I have to travel between the south shore and the city center on the weekends.  That is really problematic for Montreal.  They really hate the non-islanders and want to see them as less as possible, I guess. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 19, 2022, 03:34:50 PM
Look we are Americans. Barring a military dictatorship forcing us all to get rid of our cars and trucks at gunpoint, it is just not going to happen outside of very urbanized areas. So EVs is as good as most of us are probably going to do. Sorry planet earth.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on September 19, 2022, 03:38:30 PM
Quote from: viper37 on September 19, 2022, 03:34:43 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 19, 2022, 01:47:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 19, 2022, 12:28:00 PMNobody likes mass transit per se.  They just prefer it to alternatives.

Sure but one of those alternatives is cars.

I'd MUCH rather take amtrak between two NE corridor cities than drive.  Can relax, get work done, and not have to deal with the highway traffic.  It's not even a close call.

True, I'm not as phobic to other human beings as Elon seems to be.  But even if I was, I'd much rather take my chances of getting shanked by a serial killer on the Acela than risk my life dealing with Jersey drivers on the Turnpike. 


I have used the train a couple of times between Quebec city and Montreal and I quite liked it.  It's a little pricier than using my car, but I have meals and drinks included in first class. 

The real problem arise when I get there.  I have to travel between the south shore and the city center on the weekends.  That is really problematic for Montreal.  They really hate the non-islanders and want to see them as less as possible, I guess. ;)

Very scenic too. I've done the trip a few time from Ontario when I was younger.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 19, 2022, 04:00:47 PM
To personalize this conversation, I am picking up a new EV on Wednesday.  :cool:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 19, 2022, 06:36:03 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 19, 2022, 04:00:47 PMTo personalize this conversation, I am picking up a new EV on Wednesday.  :cool:

I will do this the second my hybrid stops working  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on September 19, 2022, 07:40:30 PM
Once there are more sedan-type like hybrid or electric vehicles, it's likely that it will be my next car.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 20, 2022, 12:16:46 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/BZPthL5F/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 12:44:50 AM
Dang it Joe, there was one guy that was *this close* to signing up for the program.  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 20, 2022, 01:27:42 AM
Maybe he missed the bus?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 02:49:03 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 19, 2022, 03:17:05 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 19, 2022, 12:19:49 PMI just included the quote?

That is not a quote saying "since we have EVs we don't need to do anything else about climate change."

Hence the difference between verbatim and outright.
He's pretty clearly stating his opposition to efforts to tackle climate change that don't involve electric cars. Add in his actions matching this too...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:06:51 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 02:49:03 AMHence the difference between verbatim and outright.
He's pretty clearly stating his opposition to efforts to tackle climate change that don't involve electric cars. Add in his actions matching this too...

He is doing nothing of the kind.  He is describing human preferences as he sees them, which I agree with because I dislike public transportation for the reasons he lists.  He says nothing that can even remotely be interpreted as people should not ride public transportation, or people  should stop worrying about climate change because EVs will solve all our problems.

Absolutely not.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 04:17:34 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:06:51 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 02:49:03 AMHence the difference between verbatim and outright.
He's pretty clearly stating his opposition to efforts to tackle climate change that don't involve electric cars. Add in his actions matching this too...

He is doing nothing of the kind.  He is describing human preferences as he sees them, which I agree with because I dislike public transportation for the reasons he lists.  He says nothing that can even remotely be interpreted as people should not ride public transportation, or people  should stop worrying about climate change because EVs will solve all our problems.

Absolutely not.

The difference being you haven't spent billions on silly ideas specifically to undermine support for public transport and boost your multi billion eV company.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:29:51 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 04:17:34 AMThe difference being you haven't spent billions on silly ideas specifically to undermine support for public transport and boost your multi billion eV company.

If he's "clearly stating" his opposition to climate change mitigation you don't need a difference, do you?

He's spent billions on reusable space launch.  Does not specifically undermine support for public transport.

He's spent billions on home solar power generation.  Does not specifically undermine support for public transport.

He's spent billions on tunneling.  Does not specifically undermine support for public transport.

He might have to spend billions on acquiring Twitter. Does not specifically undermine support for public transport.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 05:31:10 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:29:51 AMIf he's "clearly stating" his opposition to climate change mitigation you don't need a difference, do you?
Yes. Context matters. The same statement means something very different if randomly muttered in a pub vs. being said amidst a pattern of related action.


QuoteHe's spent billions on tunneling.  Does not specifically undermine support for public transport.
For cars.
The reasoning behind it specifically been an attack on public transport.

You mentioned irrelevant stuff and forgot hyperloop.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 06:37:56 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 05:31:10 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:29:51 AMIf he's "clearly stating" his opposition to climate change mitigation you don't need a difference, do you?
Yes. Context matters. The same statement means something very different if randomly muttered in a pub vs. being said amidst a pattern of related action.


QuoteHe's spent billions on tunneling.  Does not specifically undermine support for public transport.
For cars.
The reasoning behind it specifically been an attack on public transport.

You mentioned irrelevant stuff and forgot hyperloop.

I mentioned irrelevant stuff because you were horribly vague when you said he's spent billions on silly ideas (note the plural) specifically to undermine support for public transport.

You could have saved us an immense amount of time if instead of saying conservatives like EVs because they think we don't have to do anything else about climate change you had said by conservatives I mean Elon Musk and by we don't have to do anything about climate change you had said Elon said public transport is a pain in the ass and he owns a tunneling company that you claim is specifically for cars.

So not that we've managed to actually get to the issue, please tell me how you know The Boring Company is specifically for cars.  I have never heard of this before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2022, 07:46:27 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 02:49:03 AMHence the difference between verbatim and outright.

 :huh:  What do you believe that difference to be?  This makes no sense.

QuoteHe's pretty clearly stating his opposition to efforts to tackle climate change that don't involve electric cars. Add in his actions matching this too...

Nonsense.  You are trying to create some sort of a supervillain so that you can be a superhero by opposing him.  Musk has repeatedly stated that climate change is the biggest threat facing the world today, and undertaken numerous efforts to create companies that provide alternatives to climate-change-causing production and consumption.  To seize on his efforts to promote his own idea for long-distance transportation as somehow indicative of an "opposition to efforts to tackle climate change that don't involve electric cars" is bonkers.

He is not only not a Green Drazi, he isn't even a Drazi.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on September 20, 2022, 09:30:55 AM
Wait...Musk created Tesla specifically to undermine public transportation?  That's not even a good Bond villain idea...Captain Planet, maybe.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 11:50:50 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 20, 2022, 09:30:55 AMWait...Musk created Tesla specifically to undermine public transportation?  That's not even a good Bond villain idea...Captain Planet, maybe.

No, not Tesla. But the allegation is that his hyperloop schemes are advanced to undermine high-speed rail (rather than actually build the various proposed hyperloop projects).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2022, 01:23:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 11:50:50 AMNo, not Tesla. But the allegation is that his hyperloop schemes are advanced to undermine high-speed rail (rather than actually build the various proposed hyperloop projects).

Yes, the hyperloop concept was advanced to provide an alternative to high-speed rail (because Musk doesn't believe HSR is going to be cost-effective), but the imputation that Musk wants to stop HSR because he is a supervillain is absurd.  The whole "Musk is just making up hyperloop because he wants to stop high-speed rail" claim is invented.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on September 20, 2022, 02:01:14 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2022, 01:23:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 11:50:50 AMNo, not Tesla. But the allegation is that his hyperloop schemes are advanced to undermine high-speed rail (rather than actually build the various proposed hyperloop projects).

Yes, the hyperloop concept was advanced to provide an alternative to high-speed rail (because Musk doesn't believe HSR is going to be cost-effective), but the imputation that Musk wants to stop HSR because he is a supervillain is absurd.  The whole "Musk is just making up hyperloop because he wants to stop high-speed rail" claim is invented.

I think he actually admitted to that publicly.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 02:05:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on September 20, 2022, 02:01:14 PMI think he actually admitted to that publicly.

Apparently he told his biographer that: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1167410460125097990
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on September 20, 2022, 02:10:32 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 02:05:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on September 20, 2022, 02:01:14 PMI think he actually admitted to that publicly.

Apparently he told his biographer that: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1167410460125097990

Ah, might be that, didn't remember the exact circumstances.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 02:12:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 02:05:36 PMApparently he told his biographer that: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1167410460125097990

If Musk told him that, why does the biographer write "at the time it seemed....?"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 20, 2022, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 02:05:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on September 20, 2022, 02:01:14 PMI think he actually admitted to that publicly.

Apparently he told his biographer that: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1167410460125097990

To be fair, it seems not that Musk is against rail in general, but the California high speed rail project.  Which has been something of a boondoggle, since even 14 years  after it was approved by California voters it is still mired in legal challenges and has only managed to start building a route through the central valley, and not anywhere near the Bay area or LA, and may not be be complete until 2030.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Gups on September 20, 2022, 02:18:36 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 02:05:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on September 20, 2022, 02:01:14 PMI think he actually admitted to that publicly.

Apparently he told his biographer that: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1167410460125097990

Not really, according to the biographer himself.

https://jalopnik.com/did-musk-propose-hyperloop-to-stop-california-high-spee-1849402460

"When I spoke with Vance, who is currently a senior writer at Bloomberg, he called Marx's conclusion "vaguely accurate but a disingenuous take on the situation." From Vance's point of view, Musk's initial announcements on Hyperloop were "more of a reaction to how underwhelming California's high-speed rail [proposal] was.""
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 20, 2022, 02:24:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 02:12:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 02:05:36 PMApparently he told his biographer that: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1167410460125097990

If Musk told him that, why does the biographer write "at the time it seemed....?"
I (and others) pointed out previously that Musk did not actually tell his biographer that, which is obvious if you actually read what was claimed.

Its funny, I suspect every single person in this thread went over that argument just a couple months ago, and yet, still people state something as fact that is clearly opinion, as if it were fact.

Cognitive dissonance combined with status virtue signalling is a amazingly powerful combination.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: Gups on September 20, 2022, 02:18:36 PMNot really, according to the biographer himself.

https://jalopnik.com/did-musk-propose-hyperloop-to-stop-california-high-spee-1849402460

"When I spoke with Vance, who is currently a senior writer at Bloomberg, he called Marx's conclusion "vaguely accurate but a disingenuous take on the situation." From Vance's point of view, Musk's initial announcements on Hyperloop were "more of a reaction to how underwhelming California's high-speed rail [proposal] was.""

Fair enough then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 03:31:27 PM
Interesting to see the pile on on that one invented claim (who even brought that up?) and no consideration for how that claim took off...
Note the biographer there saying the claim was vaguely accurate. Something doesn't have to be a devious bond villain plot to have an ulterior motive.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 06:37:56 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 05:31:10 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:29:51 AMIf he's "clearly stating" his opposition to climate change mitigation you don't need a difference, do you?
Yes. Context matters. The same statement means something very different if randomly muttered in a pub vs. being said amidst a pattern of related action.


QuoteHe's spent billions on tunneling.  Does not specifically undermine support for public transport.
For cars.
The reasoning behind it specifically been an attack on public transport.

You mentioned irrelevant stuff and forgot hyperloop.

I mentioned irrelevant stuff because you were horribly vague when you said he's spent billions on silly ideas (note the plural) specifically to undermine support for public transport.

You could have saved us an immense amount of time if instead of saying conservatives like EVs because they think we don't have to do anything else about climate change you had said by conservatives I mean Elon Musk and by we don't have to do anything about climate change you had said Elon said public transport is a pain in the ass and he owns a tunneling company that you claim is specifically for cars.

So not that we've managed to actually get to the issue, please tell me how you know The Boring Company is specifically for cars.  I have never heard of this before.

This is getting simply silly.

I actually originally meant random Internet nutters, given the thread we are in and the context of the post.
Musk however is the hero of these sorts and the most prominent of them. Its in him you see the core of their ideology.

The boring company just for cars - bizzare you question this one. This is well established from the very foundational concepts of its work. How it works in practice is even worse.

https://youtu.be/QvK2i9Jxy5c
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 03:31:27 PMThis is getting simply silly.

I actually originally meant random Internet nutters, given the thread we are in and the context of the post.
Musk however is the hero of these sorts and the most prominent of them. Its in him you see the core of their ideology.

The boring company just for cars - bizzare you question this one. This is well established from the very foundational concepts of its work. How it works in practice is even worse.

https://youtu.be/QvK2i9Jxy5c

I agree about silly.

I strongly suspect that random internet nutters never said anything that could be reasonably interpreted as "we're conservative, and because of EVs we don't need to do anything else about climate change."

That The Boring Company did the Vegas Loop and the Vegas Loop is a tunnel for cars does not prove that The Boring Company only does car tunnels. 

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2022, 07:31:44 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 03:31:27 PMThe boring company just for cars - bizzare you question this one. This is well established from the very foundational concepts of its work. How it works in practice is even worse.

https://youtu.be/QvK2i9Jxy5c

What a bizarre and dishonest video.  Los Vegas did not, in fact, invest heavily in the LV Loop.  It spent nothing.  The Boring Company has shouldered all costs and will recoup them (it believes) from fares.

Anyone can make a video with selective truth and outright lies.  Republican politicians in the US do exactly what this guys does.  Why anyone would share such a video, though, is beyond me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 20, 2022, 09:47:35 PM
The similarity in tactics to what the Trumpist's do is rather alarming.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 20, 2022, 10:20:48 PM
Oh is Adam Something bad now? I just thought he was a Hungarian with an unhealthy love of trains and urban planning.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 21, 2022, 06:23:43 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 03:31:27 PMThis is getting simply silly.

I actually originally meant random Internet nutters, given the thread we are in and the context of the post.
Musk however is the hero of these sorts and the most prominent of them. Its in him you see the core of their ideology.

The boring company just for cars - bizzare you question this one. This is well established from the very foundational concepts of its work. How it works in practice is even worse.

https://youtu.be/QvK2i9Jxy5c

I agree about silly.

I strongly suspect that random internet nutters never said anything that could be reasonably interpreted as "we're conservative, and because of EVs we don't need to do anything else about climate change."


Because thats not the way people actually talk?
That makes no sense.

QuoteBoring Company did the Vegas Loop and the Vegas Loop is a tunnel for cars does not prove that The Boring Company only does car tunnels. 
So a company only does one thing and that doesn't prove that they're a company that only does one thing?
....um...ok.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2022, 06:37:01 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 21, 2022, 06:23:43 AMBecause thats not the way people actually talk?
That makes no sense.

That's the debate we're having.  I, and many others, disagree with your conclusion that Elon's statement about how taking public transportation sucks combined with the fact that The Boring Company's only project so far has been an underground Tesla amusement ride means he thinks "since we have EVs we don't need to worry any more about climate change."  That leads me to believe your conclusion about these internet nutters is similarly dubious.

QuoteSo a company only does one thing and that doesn't prove that they're a company that only does one thing?
....um...ok.

It makes as much sense to claim The Boring Company only does projects in Las Vegas.

They're technically capable of doing other projects.  There's nothing in the company charter AFAIK that says they will not participate in subway projects.  Musk has not made any public pronouncements to this effect AFAIK.  There are no leaked internal documents to the same effect.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 21, 2022, 06:56:11 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2022, 06:37:01 AMThat's the debate we're having.  I, and many others, disagree with your conclusion that Elon's statement about how taking public transportation sucks combined with the fact that The Boring Company's only project so far has been an underground Tesla amusement ride means he thinks "since we have EVs we don't need to worry any more about climate change."  That leads me to believe your conclusion about these internet nutters is similarly dubious.
More fool you then.
All evidence suggests I'm right about Musk and you'll find people who believe any combination of things under the sun online. Weird to disbelieve I've met some insignificant people who believed a particular nutty thing.

QuoteIt makes as much sense to claim The Boring Company only does projects in Las Vegas.

They're technically capable of doing other projects.  There's nothing in the company charter AFAIK that says they will not participate in subway projects.  Musk has not made any public pronouncements to this effect AFAIK.  There are no leaked internal documents to the same effect.
Their tunnels are too narrow for subways. From their initial concepts through to their inferior execution they've always been about cars with a loose connection to the hyperloop stuff on the side. They're specifically positioned against subways.

LV is the only one they've delivered but they have been actively trying to get others off the ground along the same lines.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2022, 07:03:03 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 21, 2022, 06:56:11 AMAll evidence suggests I'm right about Musk

Not the evidence you've presented so far.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 21, 2022, 07:44:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2022, 10:20:48 PMOh is Adam Something bad now? I just thought he was a Hungarian with an unhealthy love of trains and urban planning.

Whether he is good or nbad is for you to decide.  What he is, though, is dishonest about the Vegas Loop.

There are plenty of intellectual reasons to believe that the type of shoestring operation the Boring Company is running in Vegas will fail.  Making up emotional shit up is unnecessary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2022, 10:42:00 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/tRV6Yqt8/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 28, 2022, 10:50:29 AM
Trump gave advice to Germany?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2022, 11:00:22 AM
I watched the video, and it mainly argues that Europeans and esp. Germany are woke, and that made them cuddle up to Putin and make themselves dependent on him. Now, I agree that being not hard enough and getting too economically dependent on Russia was a mistake. I don't quite agree that "woke politics" (keeping in mind that we had 16 years of conservative chancellorship in Germany) are to blame. Peterson in his video claims that Trump warned of that. Considering Trump's own track record on Putin I don't think his advise on Russia should be given much consideration.

Actually, considering the entire context of Trump and what he said, didn't say, the ways he contradicted himself and the many times he had obviously no clue what he was talking about (any subject, really), I'd be surprised if there's many serious politicians anywhere who took any advice of his, even if, by the broken clock probability, it may have been correct.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 28, 2022, 11:01:20 AM
I don't think there is any rational response to people like Jordan Peterson. It is just rank populism.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on September 28, 2022, 11:34:38 AM
I did not notice that we are in shambles yet. What should I look for?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 11:38:03 AM
Quote from: Zanza on September 28, 2022, 11:34:38 AMI did not notice that we are in shambles yet. What should I look for?  :huh:

You need to spend more time on social media connected to the right wing and Russian trolls. Then the signs will be obvious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 28, 2022, 12:17:48 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 19, 2022, 04:00:47 PMTo personalize this conversation, I am picking up a new EV on Wednesday.  :cool:

My new EV is still on backorder - they tell me it will be 2nd quarter of next year...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on September 28, 2022, 12:27:41 PM
WTF even is woke politics? Just any person that doesn't declare Donald Trump a god?

I don't recall Donald Trump ever making big statements about Europeans importing natural gas from Russia anyway. Is this one of those things where he thought about it?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 28, 2022, 03:16:17 PM
A while back I tried to defend Peterson and someone, I think it was Tamas, said that whereas he had started out reasonable he subsequently jumped the shark.  I said whereas I hadn't seen evidence of this myself, I would keep an eye out.

I can now declare that question closed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 28, 2022, 04:16:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 28, 2022, 03:16:17 PMA while back I tried to defend Peterson and someone, I think it was Tamas, said that whereas he had started out reasonable he subsequently jumped the shark.  I said whereas I hadn't seen evidence of this myself, I would keep an eye out.

I can now declare that question closed.
It could've been Tamas, but that also sounds like what I would say.  I would also say that he would never earn the acclaim for saying those reasonable things if it weren't for a woke left tendency to suppress debate on certain issues.  When reasonable people don't feel free to express reasonable views, unreasonable people fill the void and can be mistaken for reasonable people for a while.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 28, 2022, 04:18:00 PM
I think it was Grumbler.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on September 28, 2022, 04:19:05 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 04:21:54 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 28, 2022, 04:16:37 PMIt could've been Tamas, but that also sounds like what I would say.  I would also say that he would never earn the acclaim for saying those reasonable things if it weren't for a woke left tendency to suppress debate on certain issues.  When reasonable people don't feel free to express reasonable views, unreasonable people fill the void and can be mistaken for reasonable people for a while.

Is there any current problem you don't attribute to wokeists being mean to reasonable people?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 04:27:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 28, 2022, 04:18:00 PMI think it was Grumbler.

I know it wasn't me. I said mean things about Peterson pretty much from the get-go, because I thought his "reasonable points" were mostly a facade for shittiness.

I am pleased that we now seem to have a fairly broad consensus on his merits.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on September 28, 2022, 04:43:50 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 04:27:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 28, 2022, 04:18:00 PMI think it was Grumbler.

I know it wasn't me. I said mean things about Peterson pretty much from the get-go, because I thought his "reasonable points" were mostly a facade for shittiness.

I am pleased that we now seem to have a fairly broad consensus on his merits.

I really think Jordan Peterson is just someone who was broken by fame.

You can agree or disagree with much of what he said for years, but it was all fairly benign very small-c conservative mindset kind of stuff.  I'm not sure if you consider those kind of views to be "shitty" or not, although I have my guesses.

But yeah, as his fame grew, and he became increasingly under attack, and as his fans more identified as Trumpy and conspiracy-minded, his views kind of changed as well.  And where to even begin with his medically-induced come in Russia of all places to treat a drug dependence.  Or the all-meat diet.

He definitely "jumped the shark" to my mind.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 28, 2022, 04:46:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 04:21:54 PMIs there any current problem you don't attribute to wokeists being mean to reasonable people?
Sure.  Most current problems I wouldn't directly attribute to the grassroots authoritarianism of the woke left, although they're a contributing party for a fair share of them.  Right wing authoritarianism wouldn't be as popular as it is in many countries today without left wing authoritarianism breeding a lot of resentment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 07:14:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 28, 2022, 04:43:50 PMI really think Jordan Peterson is just someone who was broken by fame.

It certainly didn't help, that's pretty clear.

QuoteYou can agree or disagree with much of what he said for years, but it was all fairly benign very small-c conservative mindset kind of stuff.  I'm not sure if you consider those kind of views to be "shitty" or not, although I have my guesses.

The stuff I objected to was not the fairly benign very small-c conservative mindset kind of stuff (that's what I meant by "facade"), but rather the actual shitty things he occasionally let slip through.

I assume that's what you were guessing.

QuoteBut yeah, as his fame grew, and he became increasingly under attack, and as his fans more identified as Trumpy and conspiracy-minded, his views kind of changed as well.  And where to even begin with his medically-induced come in Russia of all places to treat a drug dependence.  Or the all-meat diet.

He definitely "jumped the shark" to my mind.

We can definitely agree he's jumped the shark at this point, even if we don't agree at what specific point he did it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 28, 2022, 04:46:35 PMSure.  Most current problems I wouldn't directly attribute to the grassroots authoritarianism of the woke left, although they're a contributing party for a fair share of them.  Right wing authoritarianism wouldn't be as popular as it is in many countries today without left wing authoritarianism breeding a lot of resentment.

How significant a contributor do you think it's been (ballpark, obviously)? Is it minor (say 5-10%), significant (20-30%), or by far the single most important contributor (50+%)?

I feel like you bring it up consistently - almost to the exclusion of other factors. It makes me think that you think it's the most important factor, but maybe it just means it's the one you like to talk about the most - so I thought I'd ask.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 07:39:56 PM
https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1575189275326431233/photo/1
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on September 28, 2022, 08:22:44 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 04:27:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 28, 2022, 04:18:00 PMI think it was Grumbler.

I know it wasn't me. I said mean things about Peterson pretty much from the get-go, because I thought his "reasonable points" were mostly a facade for shittiness.

I am pleased that we now seem to have a fairly broad consensus on his merits.
I know basically nothing about Jordan Peterson.  The only thing I've heard from him is this


So basically, he's a video game character.  At least as far as I know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 28, 2022, 09:02:27 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 07:33:22 PMHow significant a contributor do you think it's been (ballpark, obviously)? Is it minor (say 5-10%), significant (20-30%), or by far the single most important contributor (50+%)?
Probably significant.  I think Rupert Murdoch is the biggest reason, and just like Russian propaganda, he doesn't need valid gripes to have success in total brainwashing of a significant portion of the populace.
QuoteI feel like you bring it up consistently - almost to the exclusion of other factors. It makes me think that you think it's the most important factor, but maybe it just means it's the one you like to talk about the most - so I thought I'd ask.
No, it's just the one I talk about most here.  You tend to talk more about subjects where there is no obvious agreement.  Pretty much everyone here on Languish (who's still on Languish) agrees that extreme right wing is bad news, so what's the point of talking about it?  May as well discuss how the sky is blue. 

Obviously there is less of a consensus over the woke left, so that gets discussed more.  It's also a more controllable factor:  deprogramming fascists is nearly impossible, but hopefully getting the left to stop scoring own goals is not. 

Apart from that, there are also different expectations, which may or may not be fair.  I expect right wingers to be authoritarian, that's one of the reasons I'm not one, but I don't want to accept authoritarianism on my own side.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 11:24:28 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 28, 2022, 09:02:27 PMProbably significant.  I think Rupert Murdoch is the biggest reason, and just like Russian propaganda, he doesn't need valid gripes to have success in total brainwashing of a significant portion of the populace.

I agree on Murdoch and his fellow travelers. I think other major contributors is how social media and big data has been curated (and not curated), and how limits on money in American politics have been removed which a number of very rich people with right wing agendas (and actors from hostile states with destabilizing agendas) are leveraging as much as possible.

We probably disagree on the level of impact of authoritarian leftists. It's not non-zero, but the reason I think it's less is the reason you gave - the Murdoch media machine (and the other factors I rate) doesn't actually need real substance to work, they can manufacture and amplify to suit their needs.

But like I said, I'll agree the impact is less than zero (and I can also find examples that I personally find viscerally repellent).

QuoteNo, it's just the one I talk about most here.  You tend to talk more about subjects where there is no obvious agreement.  Pretty much everyone here on Languish (who's still on Languish) agrees that extreme right wing is bad news, so what's the point of talking about it?  May as well discuss how the sky is blue. 

Obviously there is less of a consensus over the woke left, so that gets discussed more.  It's also a more controllable factor:  deprogramming fascists is nearly impossible, but hopefully getting the left to stop scoring own goals is not. 

Apart from that, there are also different expectations, which may or may not be fair.  I expect right wingers to be authoritarian, that's one of the reasons I'm not one, but I don't want to accept authoritarianism on my own side.

A reasonable answer. I'm glad I asked :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 29, 2022, 09:00:53 AM
Quote from: DGuller on September 28, 2022, 04:46:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 28, 2022, 04:21:54 PMIs there any current problem you don't attribute to wokeists being mean to reasonable people?
Sure.  Most current problems I wouldn't directly attribute to the grassroots authoritarianism of the woke left, although they're a contributing party for a fair share of them.  Right wing authoritarianism wouldn't be as popular as it is in many countries today without left wing authoritarianism breeding a lot of resentment.
Trump did make both the radical right and the radical left so much worse. 

Which has really left the sane people kind of lost.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 29, 2022, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 29, 2022, 09:00:53 AMTrump did make both the radical right and the radical left so much worse.

I which areas did the radical left get so much worse after Trump? Genuine question, as I disengaged from following American politics significantly after Trump got elected (and I haven't fully reengaged yet).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 29, 2022, 12:11:53 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 29, 2022, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 29, 2022, 09:00:53 AMTrump did make both the radical right and the radical left so much worse.

I which areas did the radical left get so much worse after Trump? Genuine question, as I disengaged from following American politics significantly after Trump got elected (and I haven't fully reengaged yet).

They've been given press attention that vastly outstrips their actual size and power.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 29, 2022, 12:15:47 PM
It would also be helpful to know what left leaning Americans think the radical left is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 29, 2022, 12:21:06 PM
Some examples:

Seeing actual scientists say that masking is important to control the spread of Covid, but that doesn't apply to a riot for BLM.

The continuing rise in cancel culture and the desire to shut down dissenting views rather then out argue them

The general increase in polarism that has been measured objectively on both sides

Crap like the 1419 project focus on race as the (seemingly) sole determinant of history and society.

Defund the police. 

Some of these may not be directly linked to Trump of course. Correlation not being causation and all. But I cannot help but suspect that the radicalization of the right is not just coincident with the (lesser but still noticeable) radicalization we are seeing on the left.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Berkut on September 29, 2022, 12:24:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 29, 2022, 12:15:47 PMIt would also be helpful to know what left leaning Americans think the radical left is.
I think answering that question from you would be uniquely not helpful to anyone.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 29, 2022, 12:29:39 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 29, 2022, 12:24:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 29, 2022, 12:15:47 PMIt would also be helpful to know what left leaning Americans think the radical left is.
I think answering that question from you would be uniquely not helpful to anyone.

Its ok, I did not have you in mind as someone I was hoping to answer my question.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 29, 2022, 12:42:58 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 29, 2022, 12:21:06 PMSome examples:

Seeing actual scientists say that masking is important to control the spread of Covid, but that doesn't apply to a riot for BLM.

The continuing rise in cancel culture and the desire to shut down dissenting views rather then out argue them

The general increase in polarism that has been measured objectively on both sides

Crap like the 1419 project focus on race as the (seemingly) sole determinant of history and society.

Defund the police.

Some of these may not be directly linked to Trump of course. Correlation not being causation and all. But I cannot help but suspect that the radicalization of the right is not just coincident with the (lesser but still noticeable) radicalization we are seeing on the left.

Cool, thanks :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on September 29, 2022, 12:50:05 PM
I think of the "radical left" in the US as those who advocate violating the laws that they consider unjust, or just advocating violence in pursuit of "justice."  Things like the various Portland Oregon "autonomous zones" where police were evicted, or those in Seattle.  Groups like the John Brown Gun Club/Redneck Revolt that argue for the use of violence against capitalists as well as racists.  I think that those kinds of movements are less active in the Trump/post-Trump era than during, say, the 1960s, but are up compared to, say, the Obama years.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on September 29, 2022, 12:56:41 PM
That makes good sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 29, 2022, 01:20:14 PM
Not sure how real this is... seems believable to me, but could also be propaganda, which is why I'm putting it here rather than the war thread: https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1575261338963673088/photo/1
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 29, 2022, 03:12:40 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 29, 2022, 01:20:14 PMNot sure how real this is... seems believable to me, but could also be propaganda, which is why I'm putting it here rather than the war thread: https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1575261338963673088/photo/1

Wouldn't surprise me on one level if there's corruption in wagner running this sort of thing.

But then I would expect the rich and not politically dangerous prisoners to already have such routes out of jail without the wagner step.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 01, 2022, 01:13:35 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/309154718_632781835219602_1234240420532288973_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=B_Qp93s9wjcAX-26bF0&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AT92Lmc7rdiv5fPBujRE_smE4_5weeHepq8MOpG400SCHA&oe=633D97D3)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 01, 2022, 05:18:13 PM
Are trans people causing theft as well now?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 05, 2022, 06:34:38 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeVr63fVUAMetDB?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 05, 2022, 09:53:46 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 05, 2022, 06:34:38 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeVr63fVUAMetDB?format=png&name=small)

 :bleeding:  ^_^ 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 10, 2022, 01:09:09 PM
I'm waiting for the Raz-putin mashup.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 22, 2022, 06:23:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfsNFB6XEAENaKM?format=jpg&name=900x900)

That can't be for real...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on October 22, 2022, 06:38:02 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 22, 2022, 06:23:18 PMThat can't be for real...

If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on October 22, 2022, 08:07:17 PM
It's Quora, of course it's highly unlikely to be real, statistically speaking.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2022, 08:19:37 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 22, 2022, 06:23:18 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfsNFB6XEAENaKM?format=jpg&name=900x900)

That can't be for real...

The real question is why Spain speaks a Mexican language.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 22, 2022, 11:05:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 22, 2022, 08:19:37 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 22, 2022, 06:23:18 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfsNFB6XEAENaKM?format=jpg&name=900x900)

That can't be for real...

The real question is why Spain speaks a Mexican language.
:D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 23, 2022, 02:30:49 AM
Yeah, why don't we speak Belgian or Swiss, for example? Enquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 23, 2022, 05:17:59 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 22, 2022, 06:38:02 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 22, 2022, 06:23:18 PMThat can't be for real...

If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

(https://preview.redd.it/g61spufh1dt81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=14cfccc2edc822d6b9357bfdb2a90624e11be549)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on October 23, 2022, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 22, 2022, 06:23:18 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfsNFB6XEAENaKM?format=jpg&name=900x900)

That can't be for real...

This troll pops up every now and again.  Pay it no heed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on October 26, 2022, 10:44:06 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 23, 2022, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 22, 2022, 06:23:18 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfsNFB6XEAENaKM?format=jpg&name=900x900)

That can't be for real...

This troll pops up every now and again.  Pay it no heed.
First time I've seen it ever, it sounded too weird to be true, but sometimes I see things so weird...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on October 27, 2022, 05:59:59 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgAixjyWYAwsub3?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PRC on November 02, 2022, 05:33:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/h93PPGO.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 02, 2022, 06:55:56 PM
No second date.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on November 04, 2022, 02:24:33 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgtwUDOWIAA__rw?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 05, 2022, 01:09:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 22, 2022, 08:19:37 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 22, 2022, 06:23:18 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfsNFB6XEAENaKM?format=jpg&name=900x900)

That can't be for real...

The real question is why Spain speaks a Mexican language.

Why does France speak Quebecois?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 05, 2022, 11:26:48 AM
Quote from: PRC on November 02, 2022, 05:33:48 PM(https://i.imgur.com/h93PPGO.png)

Heh, sounds like my oldest one....so impatient
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 05, 2022, 04:46:34 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 05, 2022, 01:09:28 AMWhy does France speak Quebecois?

A person who knows French well enough to know that they are called Quebecois and not Quebeckers or French Canadians yet also ignorant enough to think French came from Canada is a very specific individual. I don't know.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 05, 2022, 11:16:18 PM
I bet Viper knows a few.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 06, 2022, 04:45:00 AM
You see this really often with Spanish I find.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 09, 2022, 12:00:09 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/3xtvPTFh/image.png)

My brother in law, my sister and their German born friend.

In case people were thinking I was joking many moons ago when I said they left Pennsylvania because they thought it was too liberal. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2022, 08:01:45 PM
Sweet, sweet Trumpist tears.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 10, 2022, 09:32:59 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2022, 08:01:45 PMSweet, sweet Trumpist tears.

Trumpeter tears taste like sugar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 10, 2022, 09:55:36 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 09, 2022, 12:00:09 PM(https://i.postimg.cc/3xtvPTFh/image.png)

My brother in law, my sister and their German born friend.

In case people were thinking I was joking many moons ago when I said they left Pennsylvania because they thought it was too liberal. :P

Yes! 
They should most definitely do this.
I hope many more Texans think the same way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 10, 2022, 01:18:17 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315107661_190336723503923_8700989813333157211_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=DPNJwRExePEAX-hM86V&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfAJYIQSy1Gx-4Pa5TxCJhMR1wyO506B106PsgI-jqXe0g&oe=6371EA42)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 10, 2022, 01:18:48 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 10, 2022, 09:55:36 AMYes! 
They should most definitely do this.
I hope many more Texans think the same way.

They're in Missouri at the moment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: alfred russel on November 10, 2022, 01:35:36 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 10, 2022, 09:32:59 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2022, 08:01:45 PMSweet, sweet Trumpist tears.

Trumpeter tears taste like sugar.

Because they have diabetes.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 10, 2022, 01:43:39 PM
Did something more than elect a Democrat senator happen in Pen?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 10, 2022, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 10, 2022, 01:43:39 PMDid something more than elect a Democrat senator happen in Pen?

Also a Dem governor.

But it's more who was beaten in the Senate race: Dr. Oz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 10, 2022, 01:57:15 PM
A Snake Oil vendor was that popular in MAGA cycles. Damn.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 10, 2022, 02:03:47 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 10, 2022, 01:57:15 PMA Snake Oil vendor was that popular in MAGA cycles. Damn.

This surprises you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 10, 2022, 04:35:55 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 10, 2022, 01:43:39 PMDid something more than elect a Democrat senator happen in Pen?

Democrats won the Senate seat, governor's mansion, all the competitive congressional districts, and may have retaken the statehouse.  A NYT reporter on The Daily noted that the democrats did much better than expected in states where democracy or abortion were on the ballot (Michigan had a positive Blue Wave, flipping both chambers to the democrats).  Republicans did better elsewhere.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 10, 2022, 05:09:23 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 10, 2022, 04:35:55 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 10, 2022, 01:43:39 PMDid something more than elect a Democrat senator happen in Pen?

Democrats won the Senate seat, governor's mansion, all the competitive congressional districts, and may have retaken the statehouse.  A NYT reporter on The Daily noted that the democrats did much better than expected in states where democracy or abortion were on the ballot (Michigan had a positive Blue Wave, flipping both chambers to the democrats).  Republicans did better elsewhere.
You mean the DEMONcrats fixed all the races.  Talk like that started the second the polls opened.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2022, 11:57:18 AM
One perceived ill of the modern world my two oldest sisters (the oldest being 61, the other 59) that they will keep ranting against are saggy pants.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315047386_152548197510617_8347473458228897824_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=cRyPdgRxIdgAX_IG-We&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfAWyYbp3Dm_B5NXcl8-O-zs-beNKOy-Ji_8gpCu_a_I2Q&oe=637697D9)

Question: is the saggy look still a thing? I thought it had died out like 10 or 15 years ago?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 13, 2022, 12:18:54 PM
Saggy pants = Rappers/gangstas = Blacks
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 13, 2022, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 13, 2022, 11:57:18 AMOne perceived ill of the modern world my two oldest sisters (the oldest being 61, the other 59) that they will keep ranting against are saggy pants.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315047386_152548197510617_8347473458228897824_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=cRyPdgRxIdgAX_IG-We&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfAWyYbp3Dm_B5NXcl8-O-zs-beNKOy-Ji_8gpCu_a_I2Q&oe=637697D9)

Question: is the saggy look still a thing? I thought it had died out like 10 or 15 years ago?

I hear its back. Teh yoof regard skinny jeans as a lame outdated millennial thing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 13, 2022, 04:41:39 PM
It never left us.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on November 13, 2022, 06:56:56 PM
Why are we supposed to wear our jeans like gay cowboys?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on November 13, 2022, 07:54:25 PM
Because 60 year old women are attracted to gay cowboys.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2022, 08:04:38 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 13, 2022, 04:41:39 PMIt never left us.

Amen.

The classic 70s jean look is low on the hips and saggy in the ass.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 13, 2022, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 13, 2022, 02:16:36 PMI hear its back. Teh yoof regard skinny jeans as a lame outdated millennial thing.

The olds go from whining the pants are too tight to whining they are too baggy.

No matter what the kids do the olds complain and want them off their lawns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on November 13, 2022, 10:27:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2022, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 13, 2022, 02:16:36 PMI hear its back. Teh yoof regard skinny jeans as a lame outdated millennial thing.

The olds go from whining the pants are too tight to whining they are too baggy.

No matter what the kids do the olds complain and want them off their lawns.

Actually, it is the youngs who go from whining that pants are too loose to whining that they are too tight.

No matter what the kids do the next cohort will say that they have goofy dress sense and want them off their tiktok feeds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 16, 2022, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2022, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 13, 2022, 02:16:36 PMI hear its back. Teh yoof regard skinny jeans as a lame outdated millennial thing.

The olds go from whining the pants are too tight to whining they are too baggy.

No matter what the kids do the olds complain and want them off their lawns.

Hey, which side are you on?  :mad:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on November 16, 2022, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2022, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 13, 2022, 02:16:36 PMI hear its back. Teh yoof regard skinny jeans as a lame outdated millennial thing.

The olds go from whining the pants are too tight to whining they are too baggy.

No matter what the kids do the olds complain and want them off their lawns.

I don't know about anyone else's kids, but my kids hate wearing jeans period.

They'd much prefer to wear some kind of athletic pants.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 16, 2022, 04:43:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2022, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2022, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 13, 2022, 02:16:36 PMI hear its back. Teh yoof regard skinny jeans as a lame outdated millennial thing.

The olds go from whining the pants are too tight to whining they are too baggy.

No matter what the kids do the olds complain and want them off their lawns.

I don't know about anyone else's kids, but my kids hate wearing jeans period.

They'd much prefer to wear some kind of athletic pants.

My younger son does as well. But this being a hot place jeans are only really a thing kids are even considering wearing from October to May anyway.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2022, 05:01:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2022, 03:08:49 PMI don't know about anyone else's kids, but my kids hate wearing jeans period.

They'd much prefer to wear some kind of athletic pants.

The Justin Bieber look is huge down here too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on November 16, 2022, 05:43:14 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 10, 2022, 01:18:48 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 10, 2022, 09:55:36 AMYes! 
They should most definitely do this.
I hope many more Texans think the same way.

They're in Missouri at the moment.
That's rough.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 16, 2022, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2022, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2022, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 13, 2022, 02:16:36 PMI hear its back. Teh yoof regard skinny jeans as a lame outdated millennial thing.

The olds go from whining the pants are too tight to whining they are too baggy.

No matter what the kids do the olds complain and want them off their lawns.

I don't know about anyone else's kids, but my kids hate wearing jeans period.

They'd much prefer to wear some kind of athletic pants.

Here the way it always was when I was a kid and seems to hold up today is that functional youths of various sorts wear jeans whilst charvas stick to trackie bottoms all the time.

Completely expect this to be something that doesn't translate across the Atlantic - like bad kids listening to good music over there rather than club trash.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on November 16, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 16, 2022, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2022, 09:11:53 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 13, 2022, 02:16:36 PMI hear its back. Teh yoof regard skinny jeans as a lame outdated millennial thing.

The olds go from whining the pants are too tight to whining they are too baggy.

No matter what the kids do the olds complain and want them off their lawns.

I don't know about anyone else's kids, but my kids hate wearing jeans period.

They'd much prefer to wear some kind of athletic pants.

Yup, I didn't start wearing jeans regularly until I was 12 or 13. Funnily enough since then I haven't looked back.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 16, 2022, 08:00:30 PM
Too hard to get a decent ball scratching in jeans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Sophie Scholl on November 17, 2022, 02:56:51 AM
High waisted jeans are dreadful. As are low-rise. Be glad you don't have to deal with the constant swinging between the two extremes in men's jeans fashion. Also: real pockets are definitely not overrated.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 17, 2022, 09:16:01 PM
My daughter will have a uniform for school next year. She will have to wear pants every day. It's going to be quite the shock for her.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on November 17, 2022, 10:58:52 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 17, 2022, 09:16:01 PMMy daughter will have a uniform for school next year. She will have to wear pants every day. It's going to be quite the shock for her.

Private school? Catholic school? Something else?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 17, 2022, 11:10:31 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 17, 2022, 10:58:52 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 17, 2022, 09:16:01 PMMy daughter will have a uniform for school next year. She will have to wear pants every day. It's going to be quite the shock for her.

Private school? Catholic school? Something else?

Regular francophone public school. Most of our secondary schools have uniforms nowadays. Not sure when it started. I went to that school and we didn't have uniforms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on November 18, 2022, 01:39:29 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 17, 2022, 11:10:31 PMRegular francophone public school. Most of our secondary schools have uniforms nowadays. Not sure when it started. I went to that school and we didn't have uniforms.

Oh wow, interesting. I did not know that.

Do the uniforms vary form school to school or are they identical across the province? Or across the school board?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on November 18, 2022, 06:12:13 AM
 :hmm:

It's not province mandated. I don't think it is school board mandated either. Probably varies from school to school.

Right now, it's black pants with a white polo or black pants with the sports mascot t-shirts. However, it is going to all change for the 2024-2025 school year.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 18, 2022, 06:32:01 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315938708_575098631285605_2756873085520741398_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=Un4ar5eGnzYAX8cEXfb&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfDawhNCtaMv1ESdWzQXSy1iw_SPyOHfwrOAKeebTttbcw&oe=637CF451)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315981150_858794308935208_5613603701062094774_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=DMCVoCcRMSoAX87jh0v&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfBuRJmAzQm8yO_uajFwnJMg6JGZQFQ3uy-xvZOhcy3fug&oe=637C01FC)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315874889_676003437227168_8257476055826041465_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=yT16sQF9-kAAX9DZWuB&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfClFlQD8HBR-1UpR_k3vvGHBFXepMa-wQc7UoBmv9-s0w&oe=637CC0FE)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 18, 2022, 07:30:13 AM
Have to say I don't like the optics on pelosi quitting.
Sure she's old and due for retirement anyway. But coming so soon after the incident at her home... Hope it doesn't encourage the fasc that terrorism works.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 18, 2022, 08:10:16 AM
Quote from: Josquius on November 18, 2022, 07:30:13 AMHave to say I don't like the optics on perlossi quitting.
Sure she's old and due for retirement anyway. But coming so soon after the incident at her home... Hope it doesn't encourage the fasc that terrorism works.
Its not terrorism if they do it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 18, 2022, 09:59:44 AM
The 37 billion is mostly old military gear we were never going to use anyway. It was already spent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 18, 2022, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 18, 2022, 09:59:44 AMThe 37 billion is mostly old military gear we were never going to use anyway. It was already spent.

You could have outfitted two, maybe three small town police departments in the Midwest with that stuff, though!  :mad:  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 23, 2022, 02:48:13 PM
Meanwhile, on my family's timeline ...

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQBKWy6M/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 23, 2022, 08:54:15 PM
Working for a big tech company isn't a real job?  :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2022, 01:17:20 AM
I watched the video on YouTube. It's the typical "young people don't know *real* (i.e. physical) work," "young people get triggered by words/greasy hands," "tech industry is all about frilly hipster benefits/comfort, not productivity" etc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 24, 2022, 03:04:17 AM
Chick is kinda cute though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 24, 2022, 04:06:19 AM
I watched.
I suspect the laughter I'm getting out of it isn't what was intended. Its even worse than I thought it would be, goes beyond the typical "Nerr paper pushers aren't real workers" and into "Lets throw every idiotic young leftist stereotype we can get at the wall!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 02, 2022, 07:13:09 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/317635378_681494110348374_1289681908807066719_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_x5f088IJIQAX-BD7Ge&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCE1zhyLqUjbtMkEhvS-kFeTrYoqo7JvVbE7S8asK00jA&oe=638F358A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 05, 2022, 11:46:38 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/7klqkl75h84a1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6f7a69c243ab58db8b705706337d56ee561cde26)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 05, 2022, 11:48:12 PM
Damn. Banned for Christmas by your own mother for a little prank.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 06, 2022, 04:55:12 AM
It's fake anyhow.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 06, 2022, 07:14:59 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 06, 2022, 04:55:12 AMIt's fake anyhow.

Every party has a pooper.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 06, 2022, 12:51:03 PM
Quote from: Tamas on December 06, 2022, 04:55:12 AMIt's fake anyhow.

What? Something on the internet is fake? I don't know what to believe anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 06, 2022, 12:59:18 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/YSb9cjds/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 06, 2022, 05:50:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2022, 12:59:18 PM(https://i.postimg.cc/YSb9cjds/image.png)
Sure, nothing like that ever happened before today.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 06, 2022, 07:01:32 PM
Was Evil Ruling This World when the Axis was killing people by the million or was that only when teh Gayz got married?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 06, 2022, 08:19:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2022, 12:59:18 PM(https://i.postimg.cc/YSb9cjds/image.png)

I'm sure most women want crowds of strangers following them to their cars.  Strangers in cars hovering over children waiting the bus is not likely to go over well either.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 07, 2022, 01:27:57 AM
I find this constant fear fascinating. John Oliver recently looked at how media reports about crime skew perceptions of it.

I remember, 10 or so years ago, I mentioned to my sister that if I were to visit them I might take a stop in NYC to see the city. Response: "What do you want there? You want to get shot?" And she was not hyperbolic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 07, 2022, 01:32:27 AM
On that note, a colleague (he's Croat/Bosnian mix) traveled to NYC recently and got the cheapest Airbnb possible. He said it was in a really shitty part of Manhattan, with druggies and hobos roaming around, etc. Their landlord had forgot to deposit the keys, so they had to wait for an hour or two. During that time, some sketchy looking locals gathered around the two strangers, but they ended up having an impromptu little party with tequila and beer and praising him and his friend as "tough mofos" when they realized they were from ex-Yugoslavia.  :lol:

He showed some pictures and it looked fun if sketchy a.f. :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 07, 2022, 02:47:00 AM
And that's when the CHUDs came at him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 07, 2022, 02:47:49 AM
Too much is happening now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 07, 2022, 02:52:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on December 07, 2022, 02:47:49 AMToo much is happening now.
My schedule is open.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 07, 2022, 02:53:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 07, 2022, 02:47:00 AMAnd that's when the CHUDs came at him.
:lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on December 07, 2022, 09:10:04 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 07, 2022, 02:47:00 AMAnd that's when the CHUDs came at him.
Was Bud there?  :w00t:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 07, 2022, 09:28:34 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 06, 2022, 05:50:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 06, 2022, 12:59:18 PM(snip)
Sure, nothing like that ever happened before today.

This was probably first sent out 20 years ago, with the details of the triggering crime changed to be more up-to-date.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 07, 2022, 09:47:45 AM
Yeah, the Holocaust and the Killing Fields didn't trigger the "EVIL RULES THE WORLD" shit but normal street crime does.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 08, 2022, 12:40:23 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 07, 2022, 01:27:57 AMI find this constant fear fascinating. John Oliver recently looked at how media reports about crime skew perceptions of it.

I remember, 10 or so years ago, I mentioned to my sister that if I were to visit them I might take a stop in NYC to see the city. Response: "What do you want there? You want to get shot?" And she was not hyperbolic.
I've been saying this myself.  The real media bias is the cherry-picking of the worst things that happen to people and forming a narrative around it.  They may not intentionally be helping the authoritarians by doing this, but since authoritarians feed off fear, they're helping them nonetheless.  Apart from the politics of it all, it also lowers people's quality of life by making them fearful of things that are extremely unlikely to happen.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 08, 2022, 04:35:53 PM
(https://scontent.fymq3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318312456_538178761671099_4598218635977501502_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=eZOajOphnkgAX8BJlEQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq3-1.fna&oh=00_AfDW97nR4GPl0Cvv3jU2nhr6oMlL01zYGU3NW_dqPUYH9Q&oe=63983B65)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 09, 2022, 01:39:09 AM
The second pretty much follows from the first.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2022, 02:57:51 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 09, 2022, 01:39:09 AMThe second pretty much follows from the first.

Disagree.  It wouldn't work if Sweden was Sweland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 09, 2022, 10:13:27 AM
Id Sweden were Sweland, then the first thing wouldn't work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 09, 2022, 10:42:11 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/28954094_10103557680876074_3442401867387510420_o.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=OcHpIIlFB8gAX9Y3jrd&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfDWS64ZXkezqd_R02gvn8ugdyh1kSEZZfOp_2Rolf3BFw&oe=63BAC04F)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on December 09, 2022, 10:48:13 AM
That's not very classy.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 09, 2022, 10:57:28 AM
Is wearing a giant sock on your head while violating the US Flag Code the way one demonstrates emotional strength these days?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 09, 2022, 01:57:24 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 09, 2022, 10:57:28 AMIs wearing a giant sock on your head while violating the US Flag Code the way one demonstrates emotional strength these days?
SNOWFLAKE!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 09, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
I think the guy in the picture is supposed to be an example of "emotionally weak nowadays" folk.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 09, 2022, 02:31:08 PM
I have a hard time imagining somebody looking at the internet the current generation has to confront everyday and thinking that is somehow watered down and curated in a way my generation which just had network TV wasn't.

That just doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 09, 2022, 02:54:40 PM
The whinging you often see about participation trophies gets me.
Millennials and gen z didn't choose that. It was set up by their parents generation.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2022, 09:49:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 09, 2022, 10:13:27 AMId Sweden were Sweland, then the first thing wouldn't work.

Sweland vs. Denmark would still be SWE vs. DEN.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on December 09, 2022, 09:51:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2022, 09:49:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 09, 2022, 10:13:27 AMId Sweden were Sweland, then the first thing wouldn't work.

Sweland vs. Denmark would still be SWE vs. DEN.

What is this Sweden place?  I come from Sweland.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2022, 09:53:08 PM
Quote from: frunk on December 09, 2022, 09:51:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 09, 2022, 09:49:57 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 09, 2022, 10:13:27 AMId Sweden were Sweland, then the first thing wouldn't work.

Sweland vs. Denmark would still be SWE vs. DEN.

What is this Sweden place?  I come from Sweland.

Oh shit, you guys are right.  :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 10, 2022, 05:46:40 AM
The Svea Reich!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 13, 2022, 01:47:25 AM
Someone forgot something.

(https://i.redd.it/3zyxa497xj5a1.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 13, 2022, 04:04:33 AM
It's like a naughty kitten being picked up.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 13, 2022, 09:14:32 AM
You have to think that that is not entirely unusual.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 14, 2022, 03:13:54 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/13kPtL5V/image.png)

AI Germany didn't get that memo in my recent Victoria 3 game. :P (they also moved the capital of Germany to Székesfehérvár ... )

(https://i.postimg.cc/Bb6RNgnG/20221212143018-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 14, 2022, 03:21:18 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319820090_10222493240983751_1985726212754846864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=FVqN4YsMhzUAX_v_hsE&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfA4lcGVtPV0tQY-WBL49K9iW__Qt8y2FdeqRUPzLG2Zdg&oe=639EECE7)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 15, 2022, 11:19:23 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318798164_483591790548128_1765390596924011960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=izpj3jSpxPAAX8W7x80&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfALfGjfs4xHpx_9vaKLbGqyVlZDuKG2PRb-mLCN1ho2Xw&oe=639F58B2)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319042695_10227834833753586_4508918319073152363_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=T_5Vigu70scAX8aAtjf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfAKzHrVd0LPaFMvomYpSq3cAJcIwGK09YAjAGvGNz-6-g&oe=639F3DCF)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315947213_141327928677338_8866813205030908341_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=pTgab4sUqPcAX_uOwAH&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfDEjiuXek2a8WQUEanS-bnNmwCc2YVZWZVV1PcaDFpJ3Q&oe=63A11ED3)

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/397006_523861257638478_1437669760_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=E2rp35XSh-EAX8NcSGS&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfDOu4SqX9iW_ulV-raiekF7vlf3nfK_2ybhGRk0EGQBzQ&oe=63C2A902)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zvjPJ4dW/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 15, 2022, 03:42:05 PM
The bizarre attempt to make Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays political statements based on absolutely zero evidence never ceases to amaze. And it just continues year after year decade after decade for no reason at all and based on absolutely nothing. A completely made up fantasy. Democrats and people in Democratic cities say Merry Christmas all the time. There is also nothing politically correct or whatever for saying Happy Holidays. People were saying that in the United States in the 19th Century. A made up moral panic based on nothing at all.

And Hillary Clinton has never killed anybody. Completely made up fantasy.

Joe Biden is not a pedophile. There is zero evidence for it.

It is just weird. One would think that if you hate Democratic voters and Democratic politicians you would, you know, have reasons for doing so based on things they actually do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 15, 2022, 03:53:30 PM
Because they are smarter than you Valmy. They KNOW what's what. Social Media University makes people smart.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on December 15, 2022, 03:53:44 PM
Forget it, Valmy. It's Republicans.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 15, 2022, 04:27:43 PM
Most is just random weirdness but the war on Christmas stuff is a recurring bit of painful delusion.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 15, 2022, 04:34:22 PM
I always thought "Happy Holidays" was specifically designed to make Jews feel included.  Other than that it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 15, 2022, 05:11:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 15, 2022, 03:42:05 PMAnd Hillary Clinton has never killed anybody. Completely made up fantasy.

Have you already forgotten about the murder of Vince Foster?  For shame, Valmy, for shame.   :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 15, 2022, 05:16:20 PM
Sweden vs. Denland would be SWE vs. DEN.  :smarty:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 15, 2022, 05:53:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 15, 2022, 04:34:22 PMI always thought "Happy Holidays" was specifically designed to make Jews feel included.  Other than that it doesn't make a lot of sense.
My mom has old Christmas card, since from I was a kid, long before our society care about people's feeling, and many of them said "Joyeuses Fêtes" (Happy Holidays) with a Christian them for the picture.  I doubt Jews would have a particular attachment to baby Jesus on a card (Note, please Malthus, spare us the obligatory Jews for Jesus debate :P )
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 15, 2022, 05:58:16 PM
Happy holidays to me just means Xmas, new year, and the whole shebang.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 15, 2022, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 15, 2022, 04:34:22 PMI always thought "Happy Holidays" was specifically designed to make Jews feel included.  Other than that it doesn't make a lot of sense.

It originated long before the sentiment of being inclusive of Jews was at all prevalent.  Near as I can tell, it was originally a Christian phrase referring to all the Sundays of the Advent, as well as Christmas.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 15, 2022, 07:38:55 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 15, 2022, 04:34:22 PMI always thought "Happy Holidays" was specifically designed to make Jews feel included.  Other than that it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Because it used to be a whole series of festivals. And in a sense it still is.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on December 16, 2022, 03:27:03 AM
Quote from: Josquius on December 15, 2022, 05:58:16 PMHappy holidays to me just means Xmas, new year, and the whole shebang.

Me too.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on December 16, 2022, 09:15:36 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 15, 2022, 05:53:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 15, 2022, 04:34:22 PMI always thought "Happy Holidays" was specifically designed to make Jews feel included.  Other than that it doesn't make a lot of sense.
My mom has old Christmas card, since from I was a kid, long before our society care about people's feeling, and many of them said "Joyeuses Fêtes" (Happy Holidays) with a Christian them for the picture.  I doubt Jews would have a particular attachment to baby Jesus on a card (Note, please Malthus, spare us the obligatory Jews for Jesus debate :P )

It's so weird because here it always been Happy Holidays. There's , historically, 3 of them in 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Caliga on December 16, 2022, 09:36:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 15, 2022, 03:42:05 PMIt is just weird. One would think that if you hate Democratic voters and Democratic politicians you would, you know, have reasons for doing so based on things they actually do.
This kind of propaganda is designed for people too ignorant to understand the nuances of actual politics.  Anyone is capable of understanding 'DEMOCRAPS EAT BABIES!!!!!!!!1111111111111"  :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 17, 2022, 01:47:06 AM
From my sister, a nurse. :ph34r:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/15420922_10155599756734517_668768875816040701_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=VHtAXxD591QAX-uRF2D&_nc_oc=AQnjpnXeeNgGGUoEXq8RjjtmQqRhfqtiKvZ9OyPRLTqamP08MQcWebiTXKmsHgEK3Ow&tn=3xexa7b5-wNgCvUf&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfArRHhYibci-57kOuguPrqtpzDTsBoa0HjjPG99sITN0Q&oe=63C4D495)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 17, 2022, 02:44:47 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 17, 2022, 01:47:06 AMFrom my sister, a nurse. :ph34r:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/15420922_10155599756734517_668768875816040701_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=VHtAXxD591QAX-uRF2D&_nc_oc=AQnjpnXeeNgGGUoEXq8RjjtmQqRhfqtiKvZ9OyPRLTqamP08MQcWebiTXKmsHgEK3Ow&tn=3xexa7b5-&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfArRHhYibci-57kOuguPrqtpzDTsBoa0HjjPG99sITN0Q&oe=63C4D495)

.... I really hope she's joking. If not... Hope her employer sees this.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on December 17, 2022, 03:51:49 AM
I think the extent to which medical system should aim to preserve life is debatable and debated.  Nurses are allowed to have an opinion about that, as long as they don't act on it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 17, 2022, 04:09:37 AM
Last time I was in the hospital the nurse wanted me dead from the moment she looked at me.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 17, 2022, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 17, 2022, 04:09:37 AMLast time I was in the hospital the nurse wanted me dead from the moment she looked at me.

I didn't realize you went to the same hospital that Syt's sister works at  :P

Seriously thoug maybe you shouldn't share every thought you have on social media?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 17, 2022, 07:15:23 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 17, 2022, 03:51:49 AMI think the extent to which medical system should aim to preserve life is debatable and debated.  Nurses are allowed to have an opinion about that, as long as they don't act on it.

Agreed.  There's a lot of end-of-life procedures routinely undertaken that probably should not be, and a lot of people in hospitals that should be in hospices.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on December 17, 2022, 11:04:41 PM
 :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 18, 2022, 12:15:38 AM
 :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 18, 2022, 12:20:41 AM
 :bleeding:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on December 18, 2022, 12:21:30 AM
 :yuk:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 18, 2022, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 17, 2022, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 17, 2022, 04:09:37 AMLast time I was in the hospital the nurse wanted me dead from the moment she looked at me.

I didn't realize you went to the same hospital that Syt's sister works at  :P

Seriously thoug maybe you shouldn't share every thought you have on social media?

I doubt she had read his social media.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on December 18, 2022, 02:27:57 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 17, 2022, 07:15:23 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 17, 2022, 03:51:49 AMI think the extent to which medical system should aim to preserve life is debatable and debated.  Nurses are allowed to have an opinion about that, as long as they don't act on it.

Agreed.  There's a lot of end-of-life procedures routinely undertaken that probably should not be, and a lot of people in hospitals that should be in hospices.

Yeah, and nurses will typically see the worst of that. Nothing wrong with having that conversation.

It is hilarious coming from someone so conservative though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on December 18, 2022, 03:02:02 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 18, 2022, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 17, 2022, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 17, 2022, 04:09:37 AMLast time I was in the hospital the nurse wanted me dead from the moment she looked at me.

I didn't realize you went to the same hospital that Syt's sister works at  :P

Seriously thoug maybe you shouldn't share every thought you have on social media?

I doubt she had read his social media.
I'm pretty loathsome.  Nurses normally want me dead.  It's a natural reaction.  Fortunately nurses aren't allowed to make that decision for me.  Of course, I have to stay out of the ocean.  Nurse sharks aren't bound by hospital rules.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 22, 2022, 04:29:40 PM
(https://scontent.fymq3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/320520131_495448149244503_6716343770341750344_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=4-afqMNGN9gAX_t_-Bj&tn=J9orC4xvYQtCAY6Q&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq3-1.fna&oh=03_AdSdKRhjCRqWZPdp1mIYLikcqLTm8YCgjfxd-g47Zd-Ghw&oe=63CC4B22)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 22, 2022, 05:12:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 15, 2022, 04:34:22 PMI always thought "Happy Holidays" was specifically designed to make Jews feel included.  Other than that it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Forgive me for replying to something from a week ago, but I was reading that "Happy Holidays" was encouraged back in the 19th/early 20th  century as "Merry" had a strong implication of drinking as part of your celebrating the holiday.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on December 22, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 22, 2022, 05:12:04 PMForgive me for replying to something from a week ago, but I was reading that "Happy Holidays" was encouraged back in the 19th/early 20th  century as "Merry" had a strong implication of drinking as part of your celebrating the holiday.

Merry fucking Thursday, then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 23, 2022, 12:52:49 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/57kydd5xto7a1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e20eb100806aeea0a82220a4424814891dc4cfeb)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 23, 2022, 02:27:46 PM
Stalin was fat?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 23, 2022, 09:55:20 PM
Stout at the very least.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 27, 2022, 12:58:52 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/ertzt1nn5d8a1.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6af931d6ea62f81830775421b504222e30e826f5)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 29, 2022, 12:53:58 PM
It's a man's man's man's world.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 31, 2022, 03:25:31 PM
(https://scontent.fymq3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/322668398_819431045794422_5464659660081350885_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HlHjOi3hDbAAX-BsnFj&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq3-1.fna&oh=00_AfAiNri4N8BSFSi9L4T6Bnqi9OYgqf6iTC0v7UqbF_9H3A&oe=63B5CF70)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 04, 2023, 08:53:56 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/ajv7vl8s25aa1.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b0f53256eac753b45a5d8155c535d24294272775)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on January 05, 2023, 04:06:42 AM
 :lol: that's actually a good point.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 05, 2023, 04:13:22 AM
I dunno. You do hear that about stonehenge too. And Greeks aren't exactly the whitey mcwhiteface, not massively paler than Egyptians (where you more commonly hear this than mesoamericans)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on January 05, 2023, 05:00:57 AM
Nothing says advanced spacefaring civilsation more than not using arches  :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 05, 2023, 05:04:13 AM
Quote from: Josquius on January 05, 2023, 04:13:22 AMI dunno. You do hear that about stonehenge too. And Greeks aren't exactly the whitey mcwhiteface, not massively darker than Egyptians (where you more commonly hear this than mesoamericans)

But in the popular history the Greeks were albinos.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on January 05, 2023, 05:11:12 AM
Well, one was built by an iron age civilization and one was built by a barely copper age civilization. And one has written records dealing with construction and the other has written records with difficult names dealing with construction.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2023, 07:40:00 AM
The Ancient Aliens thing is basically a racist dogwhistle.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 05, 2023, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2023, 07:40:00 AMThe Ancient Aliens thing is basically a racist dogwhistle.
Don't know.  It just seems crazy.  "See these ancient tracks that look like chariot tracks but are not the same as 19th century chariots?  They're actually landing tracks for spacecrafts"  Duh...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 05, 2023, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2023, 07:40:00 AMThe Ancient Aliens thing is basically a racist dogwhistle.

Isn't everything?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2023, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 05, 2023, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2023, 07:40:00 AMThe Ancient Aliens thing is basically a racist dogwhistle.

Isn't everything?  :rolleyes:

So you are saying an idea based around brown people being too savage to build stuff shouldn't be interpreted as racist? That seems unreasonable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 05, 2023, 11:11:43 AM
I'm not convinced it's only applied to brown people.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 05, 2023, 11:32:36 AM
It's a bit simplistic. I doubt most americans even know what an Egyptian looks like (modern or ancient).  It can be explains in many ways. For example. They know pyramids are big, and most people think the past is a lot more primitive then it is, so the answer is aliens.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2023, 11:34:40 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 05, 2023, 11:11:43 AMI'm not convinced it's only applied to brown people.

Well that is where it all comes from. Finding big ruins among the browns and trying to figure out how that happened.

Granted it just goes on to crazy places from that basis. But that doesn't change the basis.

But what kind of evidence would convince you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 05, 2023, 12:07:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 05, 2023, 11:32:36 AMIt's a bit simplistic. I doubt most americans even know what an Egyptian looks like (modern or ancient).  It can be explains in many ways. For example. They know pyramids are big, and most people think the past is a lot more primitive then it is, so the answer is aliens.

I think in school they showed us the clearly not white painted images from egyptian tombs.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 05, 2023, 12:18:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2023, 12:07:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 05, 2023, 11:32:36 AMIt's a bit simplistic. I doubt most americans even know what an Egyptian looks like (modern or ancient).  It can be explains in many ways. For example. They know pyramids are big, and most people think the past is a lot more primitive then it is, so the answer is aliens.

I think in school they showed us the clearly not white painted images from egyptian tombs.

Yeah, but you were an edyptophile so paid attention because their god are cool :D

Besides,  all the cool stuff is in hot places. Early complex civilization started there, so that leads to an abundance of places to point to and go "aliens"!  white Europe has a stone circle. Woopty doo :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2023, 12:25:20 PM
It seems to me presuming the local people did not build the shit around them wasn't really a thing until colonialism. And sure once you start trying to figure out which lost tribe of Israel really did build the mounds in Ohio eventually you start thinking aliens gave ancient Mayans laser guns. Stupid ideas quickly take you down the rabbit hole.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 05, 2023, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 05, 2023, 12:25:20 PMIt seems to me presuming the local people did not build the shit around them wasn't really a thing until colonialism. And sure once you start trying to figure out which lost tribe of Israel really did build the mounds in Ohio eventually you start thinking aliens gave ancient Mayans laser guns. Stupid ideas quickly take you down the rabbit hole.

But again that case it goes to people assuming ancient people were primitive. Disease killing 80+ percent of a population of a thriving civilization in Ohio and severely changes the sophistication of their society.  So you come cross a lower density stump "simple" population of people and think there no way they built that. Is it based on racism or a lack understanding of the past?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 05, 2023, 12:33:38 PM
The whole "aliens" thing is recent, since SF itself is fairly recent.  I don't think that thee is much of a correlation with race, since Stonehenge is another "alien" artifact.  It mostly seems to have to do with giant structures that seem to serve no well-recognized purpose.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 05, 2023, 02:32:14 PM
In the 19th century there were theories that the mound builders of North America were different than the Native Americans, that the people who built Great Zimbabwe were not Africans and that the Pyramids were not built by native Egyptians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on January 05, 2023, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 05, 2023, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2023, 07:40:00 AMThe Ancient Aliens thing is basically a racist dogwhistle.
Don't know.  It just seems crazy.  "See these ancient tracks that look like chariot tracks but are not the same as 19th century chariots?  They're actually landing tracks for spacecrafts"  Duh...

Did people in Quebec use chariots to get around in the 19th century? :huh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 05, 2023, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 05, 2023, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 05, 2023, 10:10:20 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 05, 2023, 07:40:00 AMThe Ancient Aliens thing is basically a racist dogwhistle.
Don't know.  It just seems crazy.  "See these ancient tracks that look like chariot tracks but are not the same as 19th century chariots?  They're actually landing tracks for spacecrafts"  Duh...

Did people in Quebec use chariots to get around in the 19th century? :huh:
I guess it's the wrong word again.  Chariots refer only to the antiquity warfare mobile platform they use, I guess.

Carriage would be the word then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 05, 2023, 03:07:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 05, 2023, 02:32:14 PMIn the 19th century there were theories that the mound builders of North America were different than the Native Americans, that the people who built Great Zimbabwe were not Africans and that the Pyramids were not built by native Egyptians.

Big difference between "it must have been white people" and "it must have been aliens".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 05, 2023, 03:08:04 PM
I think the general rule is chariots have two wheels and carriages 4
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 05, 2023, 03:10:22 PM
A Hansom Cab doesn't seem that different from a chariot, to be honest:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/HansomCab.jpg)

Nor do the carts used in harness racing:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Vienna_-_Trotting_racer_at_the_Krieau_-_6602.jpg/1024px-Vienna_-_Trotting_racer_at_the_Krieau_-_6602.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 05, 2023, 03:11:42 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 05, 2023, 03:08:04 PMI think the general rule is chariots have two wheels and carriages 4
Just check to be sure, and carriage translates as chariot.  Duh, so yah, Raz, French Canadians did travel in chariots!  :blurgh:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 05, 2023, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 05, 2023, 03:11:42 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 05, 2023, 03:08:04 PMI think the general rule is chariots have two wheels and carriages 4
Just check to be sure, and carriage translates as chariot.  Duh, so yah, Raz, French Canadians did travel in chariots!  :blurgh:


Which is kind of funny because carriage comes from the French word charriage.  English stole the wrong word :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 05, 2023, 03:27:20 PM
The main thing the British Empire looted from the rest of the world was vocabulary. English' insatiable appetite for more vocabulary words knows no bounds.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 05, 2023, 03:30:40 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 05, 2023, 12:18:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2023, 12:07:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 05, 2023, 11:32:36 AMIt's a bit simplistic. I doubt most americans even know what an Egyptian looks like (modern or ancient).  It can be explains in many ways. For example. They know pyramids are big, and most people think the past is a lot more primitive then it is, so the answer is aliens.

I think in school they showed us the clearly not white painted images from egyptian tombs.

Yeah, but you were an edyptophile so paid attention because their god are cool :D

Besides,  all the cool stuff is in hot places. Early complex civilization started there, so that leads to an abundance of places to point to and go "aliens"!  white Europe has a stone circle. Woopty doo :P

My theory is that the Eiffel Tower was built by aliens.
How else can you explain why it stands out so much from the typical native architecture of the area, or why none of the modern descendants in the area have built anything comparable? Clearly it's of extraterrestrial origin. Possibly some sort of beacon to communicate with ships in orbit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on January 05, 2023, 03:33:29 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 05, 2023, 03:30:40 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 05, 2023, 12:18:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 05, 2023, 12:07:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 05, 2023, 11:32:36 AMIt's a bit simplistic. I doubt most americans even know what an Egyptian looks like (modern or ancient).  It can be explains in many ways. For example. They know pyramids are big, and most people think the past is a lot more primitive then it is, so the answer is aliens.

I think in school they showed us the clearly not white painted images from egyptian tombs.

Yeah, but you were an edyptophile so paid attention because their god are cool :D

Besides,  all the cool stuff is in hot places. Early complex civilization started there, so that leads to an abundance of places to point to and go "aliens"!  white Europe has a stone circle. Woopty doo :P

My theory is that the Eiffel Tower was built by aliens.
How else can you explain why it stands out so much from the typical native architecture of the area, or why none of the modern descendants in the area have built anything comparable? Clearly it's of extraterrestrial origin. Possibly some sort of beacon to communicate with ships in orbit.

How do you explain the pictures of the Tower being built, then?  :P

(https://www.parisinsidersguide.com/image-files/eiffel-tower-history-construction-stages-800-2x1.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 05, 2023, 03:36:26 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 05, 2023, 03:33:29 PMHow do you explain the pictures of the Tower being built, then?  :P

(https://www.parisinsidersguide.com/image-files/eiffel-tower-history-construction-stages-800-2x1.jpg)

That's proof it was aliens.  How else could they make entire segments appear instantaneously like that?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 05, 2023, 03:38:36 PM
Photos mean nothing. They have photos of the moon "landing" :contract:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on January 05, 2023, 03:40:36 PM
Fake photos- where is the time stamp and geolocation?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on January 05, 2023, 04:39:25 PM
It was obviously not the French who built it. There's a similar tower in Tokyo. How could two different cultures build something so similar?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 05, 2023, 04:43:48 PM
Languish special.

(https://i.redd.it/v291x8m9f9aa1.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on January 05, 2023, 04:49:54 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 05, 2023, 04:43:48 PMLanguish special.

(https://i.redd.it/v291x8m9f9aa1.jpg)

The internet is right on this one, the solution can't have any hidden i's.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on January 05, 2023, 05:24:35 PM
The Internet teaches you to keep track of the revealed vowels?  Seems like a useful lesson, how is that ruining you?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 05, 2023, 07:24:52 PM
The Is look edited in. They're brighter than the other letters.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 05, 2023, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: Josquius on January 05, 2023, 07:24:52 PMThe Is look edited in. They're brighter than the other letters.
They were likely guessed before.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on January 06, 2023, 02:51:51 AM
Quote from: Jacob on January 05, 2023, 04:39:25 PMIt was obviously not the French who built it. There's a similar tower in Tokyo. How could two different cultures build something so similar?

Clearly the French sailed to Japan on a balsawood raft and taught the Japanese how to do it, a classic instance of cultural diffusion  :smarty:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 06, 2023, 03:01:22 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319516606_2226173080889066_358095798864034455_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=dy3EHGLepQkAX9QvOIu&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCaamDEJ6_VJv8UaCON6HCGiR-_1buIIYcrXkGXJm-hhQ&oe=63BD85BB)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 06, 2023, 04:25:04 AM
What does medicin and food have to do with freedom you fucking dumbass??  Think better.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 06, 2023, 05:11:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 06, 2023, 03:01:22 AM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319516606_22261730808=dy3EHGLepQkAX9QvOIu&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCaamDEJ6_VJv8UaCON6HCGiR-_1buIIYcrXkGXJm-hhQ&oe=63BD85BB)

....so....maybe you guys ought not to fuck it up then?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 06, 2023, 05:32:19 AM
I'm not a fan of this kind of siege mentality. "We have no allies! We're the last refuge of freedom! We're the last hope! The line must be drawn here!"

(Tbh, when I first read it, I thought this was the usual message of, "if your life is messed up, it's your own responsibility to fix it and no one will help you, snowflake", until I got to the airdrop part - though I assume the guy holding the sign also subscribes to that line of thought. His Facebook page is here: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100077606762984 )
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 06, 2023, 08:05:21 AM
What is he talking about? When hurricanes hit Florida, or whatever, help is sent all the time.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 06, 2023, 09:54:49 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 06, 2023, 05:32:19 AMI'm not a fan of this kind of siege mentality. "We have no allies! We're the last refuge of freedom! We're the last hope! The line must be drawn here!"

(Tbh, when I first read it, I thought this was the usual message of, "if your life is messed up, it's your own responsibility to fix it and no one will help you, snowflake", until I got to the airdrop part - though I assume the guy holding the sign also subscribes to that line of thought. His Facebook page is here: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100077606762984 )
EVERYONE IS AGAINST US! SHARIAH LAW! HUNTER BIDEN!!!!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 06, 2023, 10:22:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 06, 2023, 03:01:22 AM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319516606_2226173080889066_358095798864034455_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=dy3EHGLepQkAX9QvOIu&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCaamDEJ6_VJv8UaCON6HCGiR-_1buIIYcrXkGXJm-hhQ&oe=63BD85BB)
Everytime they were in trouble, Canada sent help. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 06, 2023, 04:46:47 PM
And plenty have actually escaped to the freedom of Canada when their government attempted to conscript them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on January 06, 2023, 04:51:41 PM
I dunno - when the US was under actual attack on 9/11, it sure seemed like the world gave all kinds of help.  Just as one example when all those airplanes landed in places like Newfoundland or Whitehorse people turned out in droves to house the passengers until they could fly home.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 06, 2023, 05:59:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 06, 2023, 04:51:41 PMI dunno - when the US was under actual attack on 9/11, it sure seemed like the world gave all kinds of help.  Just as one example when all those airplanes landed in places like Newfoundland or Whitehorse people turned out in droves to house the passengers until they could fly home.
Yes.

When there's forest fires, all provinces that aren't with the same problem send aircrafts to help fight the fires.  When they have massive storms/hurricane that cut the power, Hydro-Quebec sends people to help repair the lines.  I'm pretty sure other provinces do the same.  And I remember Americans sending help in 1998 during the server ice storms too.

The only thing we don't do is help them plan a coup d'état in their own country. ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2023, 03:15:55 PM
Admittedly, this made me chuckle.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJS5SzYWUAU_pwO.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on January 16, 2023, 03:42:40 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on January 16, 2023, 07:50:32 PM
Thanks Syt, that was nice. :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on January 17, 2023, 10:05:05 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/4ud2kzaavpca1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6ff1477a063003a73784e74809775e2fc5f3974a)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2023, 12:26:44 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 16, 2023, 03:15:55 PMAdmittedly, this made me chuckle.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJS5SzYWUAU_pwO.jpg)

As someone rapidly approaching 40, I appreciate this.  :)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 19, 2023, 12:52:54 AM
Quote from: viper37 on January 17, 2023, 10:05:05 PM(https://preview.redd.it/4ud2kzaavpca1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6ff1477a063003a73784e74809775e2fc5f3974a)

I have no idea what is going on here but that woman looks a little calmer than I would expect somebody being hauled away by vikings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 19, 2023, 01:02:59 AM
It's Greta Thuneburg being hauled away from a German open pit mine protest.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on January 19, 2023, 01:04:02 AM
As a Swede, shouldn't she be the Viking?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 19, 2023, 01:05:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 19, 2023, 12:52:54 AM
Quote from: viper37 on January 17, 2023, 10:05:05 PM(https://preview.redd.it/4ud2kzaavpca1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6ff1477a063003a73784e74809775e2fc5f3974a)

I have no idea what is going on here but that woman looks a little calmer than I would expect somebody being hauled away by vikings.

Look, I'm not gonna yuck anybody's yum, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 19, 2023, 02:00:29 AM
The Business Chamber of Vienna's branch for car related businesses has the facebook account "Mobil in Wien" with over 2000 followers where they share "funny memes." One of the "best" is the below, especially in times of rapidly increasing rents and property prices.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316247733_443832484615549_7533561892218752235_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=fNtV5tyWkqgAX-JAQm6&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCsvH0D3g_wASUHdjfJDjL-oxiQiZwnho1FNVGsks_Mow&oe=63CD6FDF)

"My motto:
Engine capacity
instead of housing capacity."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on January 19, 2023, 08:42:23 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on January 19, 2023, 01:04:02 AMAs a Swede, shouldn't she be the Viking?

There was probably a joke attempt around that picture.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Brain on January 19, 2023, 08:55:44 AM
"Oh noes! I was captured by hunky Vikings!" is a common genre in romance/erotica.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on January 19, 2023, 09:14:53 AM
Quote from: viper37 on January 06, 2023, 05:59:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 06, 2023, 04:51:41 PMI dunno - when the US was under actual attack on 9/11, it sure seemed like the world gave all kinds of help.  Just as one example when all those airplanes landed in places like Newfoundland or Whitehorse people turned out in droves to house the passengers until they could fly home.
Yes.

When there's forest fires, all provinces that aren't with the same problem send aircrafts to help fight the fires.  When they have massive storms/hurricane that cut the power, Hydro-Quebec sends people to help repair the lines.  I'm pretty sure other provinces do the same.  And I remember Americans sending help in 1998 during the server ice storms too.

The only thing we don't do is help them plan a coup d'état in their own country. ;)

Founder of the Proud Boys is an English born Canadian. Nothing is original in the USA.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 19, 2023, 09:32:35 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 19, 2023, 08:55:44 AM"Oh noes! I was captured by hunky Vikings!" is a common genre in romance/erotica.

I'll take your word for it.  I don't want the mental image of your and your hunky Viking captors.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on January 19, 2023, 09:44:24 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 19, 2023, 09:32:35 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 19, 2023, 08:55:44 AM"Oh noes! I was captured by hunky Vikings!" is a common genre in romance/erotica.

I'll take your word for it.  I don't want the mental image of your and your hunky Viking captors.

Whatever you do, don't picture of the Vikings throwing brain into a pen full of animals thinking it's punishment.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on January 19, 2023, 11:11:07 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 19, 2023, 08:55:44 AM"Oh noes! I was captured by hunky Vikings!" is a common genre in romance/erotica.

Well that explains why it's the first time I've seen her smile :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Threviel on January 20, 2023, 06:58:31 AM
I read somewhere that the Anglo-Saxons deemed the vikings effeminate and vain and they also had a habit of raping the monks as well as the nuns. So kind of the exact opposite of 19th century romantic view of vikings.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2023, 01:14:45 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/gk1WFZ3C/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 20, 2023, 01:23:01 PM
Well they clearly think that peace, love, and small kittens will break out if Russia wins. Well Russia won in 2014 and I didn't notice that happening then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 20, 2023, 02:21:12 PM
That's meant to be an anti Ukraine Post?

Quote from: Threviel on January 20, 2023, 06:58:31 AMI read somewhere that the Anglo-Saxons deemed the vikings effeminate and vain and they also had a habit of raping the monks as well as the nuns. So kind of the exact opposite of 19th century romantic view of vikings.

Not sure on the monk rape - I think they had views a bit like the Romans where being a bottom was shameful but raping a guy was kosher? I know a lot of Lokis weirdness comes from his being receptive a fair bit.
But for sure yeah, well known the vikings were dandies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 20, 2023, 02:52:58 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 20, 2023, 01:14:45 PM(https://i.postimg.cc/gk1WFZ3C/image.png)

Are TJ Maxx and Ukraine in cahoots?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on January 20, 2023, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Josquius on January 20, 2023, 02:21:12 PMThat's meant to be an anti Ukraine Post?

The idea is that Ukraine is destroying the economy. By us helping them and I presume the economic disruption caused by them not immediately surrendering.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on January 20, 2023, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 20, 2023, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Josquius on January 20, 2023, 02:21:12 PMThat's meant to be an anti Ukraine Post?

The idea is that Ukraine is destroying the economy. By us helping them and I presume the economic disruption caused by them not immediately surrendering.

I guess it makes sense when you consider the mercantalist outlook on economics of the loony right.
Every win must have an equal loss et al.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 22, 2023, 02:28:18 AM
Found in the wild. An exchange between two very stable geniuses.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnBsB08WQAIjs-K?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on January 22, 2023, 02:40:20 AM
Even if we followed that crazy train, and Obama was Hitler's grandson...so what?  Why can't we ever get over this medieval idea that if person X is descended from Baddie Y, they are therefore automatically Baddie X.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 22, 2023, 03:31:57 AM
This loon is trying to backdoor the "Ukraine is Nazi" argument.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on January 22, 2023, 03:44:34 AM
I admit the "he was born in Jakarta" bit was new to me (AFAIK he spent some years there as a kid).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on January 22, 2023, 06:27:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 22, 2023, 03:44:34 AMI admit the "he was born in Jakarta" bit was new to me (AFAIK he spent some years there as a kid).

Every loon seems to bark at a different moon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 04, 2023, 03:44:09 AM
Passing along this important "that totally happened" warning. :)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sVfqMY03/image.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zanza on February 04, 2023, 04:11:48 AM
I can believe that the police officer told her to go to car wash.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 12, 2023, 02:37:39 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/289958068_338769655097363_2854724427388691731_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=Qmw0knAaMaAAX8DlPLd&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfDMwSmIbgnkaiptliITP0oW2MZDCjGklK79EMN56g9uuA&oe=63EE6D3A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on February 12, 2023, 04:58:36 AM
:frusty:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on February 18, 2023, 06:15:20 PM
(https://i.redd.it/u120mjmmz1ja1.jpg) 

Not gonna comment, I think.  :shutup:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 19, 2023, 09:32:05 PM
(https://i.redd.it/1jpqtq9musoa1.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 19, 2023, 11:32:01 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 19, 2023, 09:32:05 PM(https://i.redd.it/1jpqtq9musoa1.jpg)

Why indeed?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 20, 2023, 02:22:27 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/wx5rk1Mx/image.png)

I clicked the link to the video (in an incognito tab, don't need this in my YT history :P ) - FOR SCIENCE!

The account is by a "Gülsüm'ün Elişleri", and they posted 11 such videos in the past day ... which is a break from their previous programming up until 2 months ago:

(https://i.postimg.cc/jts3bdCN/image.png)

So either a Turkish needlework channel has made a dramatic shift towards US right wing politics, or someone stole that account. :hmm:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 20, 2023, 07:31:13 AM
Quote from: Barrister on March 19, 2023, 11:32:01 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 19, 2023, 09:32:05 PM(https://i.redd.it/1jpqtq9musoa1.jpg)

Why indeed?

He found a new hot girl in teeny tiny shorts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 20, 2023, 02:18:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 19, 2023, 11:32:01 PMWhy indeed?
Total mystery! :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on March 20, 2023, 07:12:06 PM
I thought it was all hound dogs; pickup trucks; and running out of beer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 05:57:50 AM
Apparently this is a real person's career as it appears in their LinkedIn.  :lol:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrnvCrWacAAMZ1x?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 21, 2023, 06:03:16 AM
Final destination, finance series.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 21, 2023, 03:08:11 PM
This cannot be true. The comment under credit suisse  :D

Though if real, we have spotted the problem.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 21, 2023, 03:40:41 PM
Nobody should ever hire that person.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 21, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 21, 2023, 03:40:41 PMNobody should ever hire that person.

If they go on unemployment then will the EI system crash? :ph34r:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 21, 2023, 03:44:19 PM
Quote from: Josquius on March 21, 2023, 03:08:11 PMThis cannot be true.

Clearly fake.  The only thing missing is deck hand on the Titanic.

How does one make the jump from research assistant at Theranos to salesman at WeWork to finance?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 21, 2023, 03:47:53 PM
Night school :D
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 21, 2023, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 21, 2023, 03:44:19 PM
Quote from: Josquius on March 21, 2023, 03:08:11 PMThis cannot be true.

Clearly fake.  The only thing missing is deck hand on the Titanic.

How does one make the jump from research assistant at Theranos to salesman at WeWork to finance?

This person's mother was an energy markets analyst for ENRON and father an accountant for Bear Stearns.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 21, 2023, 04:01:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 21, 2023, 03:50:39 PMClearly fake.  The only thing missing is deck hand on the Titanic.

How does one make the jump from research assistant at Theranos to salesman at WeWork to finance?

This person's mother was an energy markets analyst for ENRON and father an accountant for Bear Stearns.
[/quote]

Favorite uncle worked compliance at Qualcomm and cousin worked back room at Madoff Associates.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on March 21, 2023, 05:34:05 PM
Grandpa Ponzi would be proud.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 21, 2023, 07:00:33 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 21, 2023, 03:44:19 PMClearly fake.  The only thing missing is deck hand on the Titanic.

How does one make the jump from research assistant at Theranos to salesman at WeWork to finance?

That's the point I was going to make.  It's moderately funny but not at all believable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 31, 2023, 12:34:50 AM
From my niece's husband:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/338412947_1358566101353774_8405093698110284859_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Rj4V5Nm1aogAX-mbql_&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCcPcmFcS8jXr6DsgWAS0-y9V3cdj6tbF1Jcazy2CbV9g&oe=642C44DA)

Yes, that's an image of the recent school shooter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 31, 2023, 03:17:39 AM
Interesting they hate school shooters in this case :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 31, 2023, 08:09:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2023, 12:34:50 AMYes, that's an image of the recent school shooter.

That is a verb, not a pronoun.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 31, 2023, 08:14:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 31, 2023, 08:09:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2023, 12:34:50 AMYes, that's an image of the recent school shooter.

That is a verb, not a pronoun.

Stop using them big words like "verb!"  :mad:   Just speak plain English.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 31, 2023, 08:44:37 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 31, 2023, 08:09:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2023, 12:34:50 AMYes, that's an image of the recent school shooter.

That is a verb, not a pronoun.

If men can be women why can't verbs be pronouns :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 05, 2023, 11:36:08 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/2sx71d4qq2sa1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=59d693f85f0a1af9059ced2cb9f0f2750770e7e0)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on April 05, 2023, 11:40:22 AM
I am very happy we don't have a figure our voters think is some kind of messianic savior. We sort of approached that for awhile with Obama and I found that very off putting. Politicians are just people holding an office and doing a job, nothing that should be glorified.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 21, 2023, 11:48:29 AM
(https://i.redd.it/dnhapfved5va1.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on May 16, 2023, 08:08:15 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwRBfraWAAk_COL?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on June 27, 2023, 12:33:48 AM
From the interwebs:

(https://i.redd.it/qf5d4sivhf8b1.jpg)



Also, staying hydrated is not masculine. -_-

(https://i.redd.it/h9c2fxpoad8b1.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 27, 2023, 01:05:37 AM
:lol:
A knife at the airport.. Hmm
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 27, 2023, 01:30:17 AM
She's kind of woke, a real man never goes anywhere without his AR-15  :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Maladict on June 27, 2023, 04:03:35 AM
Wallet, how quaint.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 27, 2023, 08:52:10 AM
Is a flask of port wine all right?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: mongers on June 27, 2023, 09:25:09 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 27, 2023, 08:52:10 AMIs a flask of port wine all right?

:cool:

Also carrying around any bottle or water is more macho, as having to swing that weight on the end of an arm requires more muscle than not, hence I never bother carrying water whilst walking.  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on June 27, 2023, 09:38:26 AM
Its curious phones don't exist.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 27, 2023, 12:33:22 PM
Real men use a camelback or a hat with two beer cans and loopy straws.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 06, 2023, 11:01:37 AM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/215358272_10218956946810714_2192401708651286680_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=H4WAN-LmzcwAX9Nv77a&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfBGhn43v7LytFC5TCfMQOZuCxojLfkFOTu6kOyfkuB3kw&oe=64AC166C)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 06, 2023, 11:11:46 AM
https://misbar.com/en/factcheck/2021/07/13/chinese-slaves-did-not-build-california-railroads

While lots can be said about the experience of Chinese immigrants in the 19th century, they were not slaves.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 06, 2023, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 06, 2023, 11:11:46 AMhttps://misbar.com/en/factcheck/2021/07/13/chinese-slaves-did-not-build-california-railroads

While lots can be said about the experience of Chinese immigrants in the 19th century, they were not slaves.

A facebook post being wrong? :o
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 06, 2023, 11:41:17 AM
(https://i.redd.it/6uz55ecimcab1.jpg)

:unsure:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 06, 2023, 11:48:24 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 06, 2023, 11:41:17 AM:unsure:

That seems unlikely...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 06, 2023, 12:09:40 PM
Yeah the Chinese have never expressed anger at western nations for our bad behavior towards them before...
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: frunk on July 06, 2023, 12:26:43 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 06, 2023, 11:41:17 AM(https://i.redd.it/6uz55ecimcab1.jpg)

:unsure:
This reads like one of those everything is wrong memes.  It could definitely be improved by making it Groucho Marx.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmarkarayner.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F04%2Fgeekoffend.jpg&hash=2e01144d2c4b7d5b65a2a868db0faac04129956e)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 06, 2023, 12:30:44 PM
Although apparently "literally meant figuratively" is so prevalent it's in the dictionary. :bleeding:

Quoteliterally
adverb
lit·�er·�al·�ly ˈli-tə-rə-lē  ˈli-trə-lē, ˈli-tər-lē
Synonyms of literally
1
: in a literal sense or manner: such as
a
: in a way that uses the ordinary or primary meaning of a term or expression
He took the remark literally.
a word that can be used both literally and figuratively
b
—used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description
The party was attended by literally hundreds of people.
c
: with exact equivalence : with the meaning of each individual word given exactly
The term "Mardi Gras" literally means "Fat Tuesday" in French.
d
: in a completely accurate way
a story that is basically true even if not literally true
2
: in effect : VIRTUALLY —used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible
will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice
—Norman Cousins
 Should literally be used for emphasis?: Usage Guide
Sense 2 is common and not at all new but has been frequently criticized as an illogical misuse. It is pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis, but it often appears in contexts where no additional emphasis is necessary.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 06, 2023, 02:09:31 PM
I guess historic communists were pretty against homosexuality seeing it as bourgeois nonsense and Marxist regimes weren't exactly great with gay rights.
But otherwise.... Yeah....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 06, 2023, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 06, 2023, 02:09:31 PMI guess historic communists were pretty against homosexuality seeing it as bourgeois nonsense and Marxist regimes weren't exactly great with gay rights.
But otherwise.... Yeah....

Also hey they are the guys declaring that LGBT is Marxism of some kind, so I don't see why we need to account for their weird projections.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 06, 2023, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 06, 2023, 02:09:31 PMI guess historic communists were pretty against homosexuality seeing it as bourgeois nonsense and Marxist regimes weren't exactly great with gay rights.
But otherwise.... Yeah....

I think you may be mixing up Bolsheviks with historic communists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 06, 2023, 10:20:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 06, 2023, 02:33:48 PMI think you may be mixing up Bolsheviks with historic communists.

Next he might mix up Mozart with historic musicians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 07, 2023, 02:43:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 06, 2023, 10:20:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 06, 2023, 02:33:48 PMI think you may be mixing up Bolsheviks with historic communists.

Next he might mix up Mozart with historic musicians.

If Mozart killed, banished or otherwise outlawed other musicians, yeah that would work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 07, 2023, 06:43:38 PM
I thought Marx was a writer, not a serial killer.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 07, 2023, 09:41:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 07, 2023, 06:43:38 PMI thought Marx was a writer, not a serial killer.

Nor a Bolshevik
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2023, 10:04:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 07, 2023, 02:43:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 06, 2023, 10:20:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 06, 2023, 02:33:48 PMI think you may be mixing up Bolsheviks with historic communists.

Next he might mix up Mozart with historic musicians.

If Mozart killed, banished or otherwise outlawed other musicians, yeah that would work.

If a musician killed, banished, or otherwise outlawed other musicians would he cease to be a musician?

The Bolsheviks might be shitty Communists, but they were still Communists.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 08, 2023, 12:47:36 AM
Also the view of homosexuality, albeit not any action against gays, was pretty standard even amongst more reasonable socialists of the early 20th century.
An enlightened time as far as lgbt rights go it was not.

They were often amongst the first groups to flip on the issue though.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 08, 2023, 05:31:40 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2023, 10:04:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 07, 2023, 02:43:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 06, 2023, 10:20:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 06, 2023, 02:33:48 PMI think you may be mixing up Bolsheviks with historic communists.

Next he might mix up Mozart with historic musicians.

If Mozart killed, banished or otherwise outlawed other musicians, yeah that would work.

If a musician killed, banished, or otherwise outlawed other musicians would he cease to be a musician?

The Bolsheviks might be shitty Communists, but they were still Communists.

If you ignore all the ways Bolsheviks violently disagreed with communists who adhered to Marxist theory then ok.  I suppose the term has sufficiently lost that distinction over time for your argument to be valid.

But the original post was about Marx.  And so you have to ignore all of those historic differences to make the argument that Bolsheviks were "historical communists".

Put simply, there has not yet been a communist state which developed from a capitalist state, something which historical communists argued was a necessary precondition of a communist state.  A small detail that often gets missed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 08, 2023, 06:07:06 AM
Marx never killed anyone nor did he pass any laws. Even if he had, that's like dismissing the principles of the American Revolution because many participants had slaves. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, you might call it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on July 08, 2023, 06:42:41 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 07, 2023, 09:41:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 07, 2023, 06:43:38 PMI thought Marx was a writer, not a serial killer.

Nor a Bolshevik

Nor a Marxist (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/260703-if-anything-is-certain-it-is-that-i-myself-am).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 08, 2023, 06:52:33 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 08, 2023, 06:42:41 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 07, 2023, 09:41:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 07, 2023, 06:43:38 PMI thought Marx was a writer, not a serial killer.

Nor a Bolshevik

Nor a Marxist (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/260703-if-anything-is-certain-it-is-that-i-myself-am).

 :D

That leaves Engels as a possible candidate for Marxist.  :hmm:
Likely founder of Marxism as well.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 11, 2023, 02:13:06 AM
(https://i.redd.it/02huo68ie6bb1.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 11, 2023, 02:35:39 AM
Conservative Christian activists truly are christ like. If there's one thing Jesus is known for his it's contempt of the young and poor and refusal to help them. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 11, 2023, 07:34:56 AM
In north, American evangelicals tend to believe that the Bible is literally true. It is a mystery then why they choose to ignore most of what the Bible says.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 11, 2023, 09:28:40 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 07, 2023, 06:43:38 PMI thought Marx was a writer

Yes but only literally.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 11, 2023, 10:26:42 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 11, 2023, 07:34:56 AMIn north, American evangelicals tend to believe that the Bible is literally true. It is a mystery then why they choose to ignore most of what the Bible says.

They mean the Bible is literally true in the same way that woman above believed Karl Marx literally went around murdering gay people.

They mean that they have a set of beliefs which they hold and think those beliefs will appear stronger and more secure if they use the word "Biblical" to describe them.  Any resemblance of those beliefs to the teachings of the actual Biblical text is mostly coincidental.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 11, 2023, 10:43:48 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 11, 2023, 10:26:42 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 11, 2023, 07:34:56 AMIn north, American evangelicals tend to believe that the Bible is literally true. It is a mystery then why they choose to ignore most of what the Bible says.

They mean the Bible is literally true in the same way that woman above believed Karl Marx literally went around murdering gay people.

They mean that they have a set of beliefs which they hold and think those beliefs will appear stronger and more secure if they use the word "Biblical" to describe them.  Any resemblance of those beliefs to the teachings of the actual Biblical text is mostly coincidental.


As I think Malthus pointed out many times, the evangelicals like to quote Leviticus in defence of their anti-gay policies, but I have yet to see them avoid pork, avoid wearing clothing made of multiple fabrics, or stone someone to death for working on the Lord's day.


Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 11, 2023, 10:47:48 AM
Also very few of them are geniune Levites.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on July 11, 2023, 10:51:43 AM
As Minsky wrote, being religious is just an excuse for them to hold on to whatever selfish stance the world is trying to take away from them. The views don't -and rarely do- have to be aligned with actual Christian values.

I know religious individuals who use religion as a source of strength to keep to actual Christian values, so I am aware the above doesn't describe everyone religious, but it sure describes the spiteful scum like that quoted lady.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 11, 2023, 03:09:16 PM
I dunno. Calvinism overall tends to have this sort of outlook that seems quite at odds with jesus
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on July 12, 2023, 12:39:36 AM
From my middle sister and her son in law:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/359420701_818621696635614_3669183999572882783_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_s1080x2048&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=bWvzpUopiewAX9HEAr5&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfB_f0D3z90VK_ZmLZ-FJszdsgz5JC4RdlJY5aqKXuwDxg&oe=64B3AD4B)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 12, 2023, 03:28:41 AM
Honestly this makes me happy to see. The transphobes really don't like it when you point out they're just going down the list now that being anti gay isn't going to get them anywhere. Always nice to see them just rip off the mask and admit what they're about.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 12, 2023, 07:45:31 AM
On the plus side, it's good to see Syt's family condemning Matt Gaetz.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 12, 2023, 08:06:27 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 11, 2023, 10:51:43 AM(snip) I know religious individuals who use religion as a source of strength to keep to actual Christian values, so I am aware the above doesn't describe everyone religious, but it sure describes the spiteful scum like that quoted lady.

Those who are really Christians don't brag about it, and those who brag about it aren't really Christians.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 12, 2023, 09:58:56 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 12, 2023, 08:06:27 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 11, 2023, 10:51:43 AM(snip) I know religious individuals who use religion as a source of strength to keep to actual Christian values, so I am aware the above doesn't describe everyone religious, but it sure describes the spiteful scum like that quoted lady.

Those who are really Christians don't brag about it, and those who brag about it aren't really Christians.


I think it has become, at least, for a certain segment of the population, more of a cultural identity than a spiritual identity.

Easier to fight culture wars when you don't have to pay attention to the religious teachings of your supposed faith.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2023, 10:35:17 AM
How is pedophilia becoming normalized? We seem to be cracking down on abusers more than we have in the past.

Especially odd as tolerance and covering up of child abuse has been such a problem in religious communities.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 12, 2023, 10:54:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2023, 10:35:17 AMHow is pedophilia becoming normalized? We seem to be cracking down on abusers more than we have in the past.

Especially odd as tolerance and covering up of child abuse has been such a problem in religious communities.

It isn't becoming normalized.

It's part of the satanic right's current strategy to claim that any exposure to gay or trans acceptance is grooming children for pedophilia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2023, 10:58:00 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 12, 2023, 10:54:14 AMIt's part of the satanic right's current strategy to claim that any exposure to gay or trans acceptance is grooming children for pedophilia.

Which makes about as much sense as explaining how babies are made, at an appropriate age level, is going to have your four year old descend into sexual debauchery.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 12, 2023, 11:13:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2023, 10:58:00 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 12, 2023, 10:54:14 AMIt's part of the satanic right's current strategy to claim that any exposure to gay or trans acceptance is grooming children for pedophilia.

Which makes about as much sense as explaining how babies are made, at an appropriate age level, is going to have your four year old descend into sexual debauchery.

Why do you think it matters to the religious right that their arguments make any sense?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 12, 2023, 11:18:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2023, 10:58:00 AMWhich makes about as much sense as explaining how babies are made, at an appropriate age level, is going to have your four year old descend into sexual debauchery.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 12, 2023, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2023, 10:35:17 AMHow is pedophilia becoming normalized?
Child beauty contests.  The ones the GOP don't seem to have a problem with.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on July 12, 2023, 02:59:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2023, 10:35:17 AMHow is pedophilia becoming normalized? We seem to be cracking down on abusers more than we have in the past.

Especially odd as tolerance and covering up of child abuse has been such a problem in religious communities.

To the extent the argument has merit, it's by claiming that by focusing on children's gender identity, and allowing gender transition, it is focusing too much on sexual identity at young ages.

At its worst it's just more paranoia about drag queen story hour.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 12, 2023, 03:29:57 PM
At worst it's pandering to QAnon.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 13, 2023, 06:59:51 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2023, 02:59:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2023, 10:35:17 AMHow is pedophilia becoming normalized? We seem to be cracking down on abusers more than we have in the past.

Especially odd as tolerance and covering up of child abuse has been such a problem in religious communities.

To the extent the argument has merit, it's by claiming that by focusing on children's gender identity, and allowing gender transition, it is focusing too much on sexual identity at young ages.

At its worst it's just more paranoia about drag queen story hour.

Your statement "to the extent the argument has any merit" seems to imply you think there is at least some merit if one tries hard enough to try to understand what they are saying. 

I don't see it.  Connect the dots for me.  Even if one reasonably believes there is too much focus on sexual identity at too young an age, how does that lead to normalizing pedophelia?

How does that argument have any merit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 13, 2023, 10:03:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 13, 2023, 06:59:51 AMYour statement "to the extent the argument has any merit" seems to imply you think there is at least some merit
Drop it.  You're making him saying things he doesn't say.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 13, 2023, 10:17:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2023, 02:59:49 PMTo the extent the argument has merit, it's by claiming that by focusing on children's gender identity, and allowing gender transition, it is focusing too much on sexual identity at young ages.

Sexual identity? I agree it would be absurd to focus on that prior to puberty.

But gender identity has always been a big part of childhood. We explain about boys and girls and dress up little babies in gender appropriate clothing. I have no issue with this, the baby has like a 97% chance of being cis-gendered. But in my experience trans kids often show they are trans at a very young age. Parents deciding to deal with that by leaning a bit to their kid being trans might not be what everybody would choose but it is a valid choice, and one they are making sincerely as what they think is best for their child, and not one that encourages pedophilia in anyway. At least that I can see.

If trans kids end up being prey for predators in a disproportionate rate that might say more about how we treat trans people than anything else. I don't know if that is true though.

But I am sure there are weird edge cases where some parents did some truly weird shit to their kid regarding their gender and sexuality. But guess what? There are weird edge cases where some parents did some truly weird shit to their kid in hundreds of other fucked up ways. Parents have power over their kids. It isn't a perfect system but it tends to work better than other methods of raising kids we have explored.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 13, 2023, 10:28:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2023, 10:17:14 PMSexual identity? I agree it would be absurd to focus on that prior to puberty.

I guess it depends on what you mean by focus, but I don't think it's an absurd topic to discuss in age-appropriate terms.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 13, 2023, 10:31:01 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 13, 2023, 10:28:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2023, 10:17:14 PMSexual identity? I agree it would be absurd to focus on that prior to puberty.

I guess it depends on what you mean by focus, but I don't think it's an absurd topic to discuss in age-appropriate terms.

Well yes of course. Even as a young kid in the 1980s I ran into gays and lesbians and my parents had to explain what the deal was. I don't recall that grooming me for pedophilia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 13, 2023, 10:32:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 13, 2023, 10:31:01 PMWell yes of course. Even as a young kid in the 1980s I ran into gays and lesbians and my parents had to explain what the deal was. I don't recall that grooming me for pedophilia.

Well done your parents :cheers:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 14, 2023, 07:07:55 AM
Quote from: viper37 on July 13, 2023, 10:03:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 13, 2023, 06:59:51 AMYour statement "to the extent the argument has any merit" seems to imply you think there is at least some merit
Drop it.  You're making him saying things he doesn't say.

I didn't force him to propose how what was said can make some sense.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 15, 2023, 04:33:20 PM
I can see a potential issue in explaining gay people to kids.
 If as a 6 year old it was seen as acceptable and I knew I could just live with another guy and do nothing but guy stuff with no smelly girls involved then I'd be all for it. I'd declare myself gay there and then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 15, 2023, 05:31:39 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 15, 2023, 04:33:20 PMI can see a potential issue in explaining gay people to kids.
 If as a 6 year old it was seen as acceptable and I knew I could just live with another guy and do nothing but guy stuff with no smelly girls involved then I'd be all for it. I'd declare myself gay there and then.

Sure, but how does that have anything to do with pedophelia
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 15, 2023, 10:51:28 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 15, 2023, 05:31:39 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 15, 2023, 04:33:20 PMI can see a potential issue in explaining gay people to kids.
 If as a 6 year old it was seen as acceptable and I knew I could just live with another guy and do nothing but guy stuff with no smelly girls involved then I'd be all for it. I'd declare myself gay there and then.

Sure, but how does that have anything to do with pedophelia

:blink:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 16, 2023, 02:00:05 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 15, 2023, 10:51:28 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 15, 2023, 05:31:39 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 15, 2023, 04:33:20 PMI can see a potential issue in explaining gay people to kids.
 If as a 6 year old it was seen as acceptable and I knew I could just live with another guy and do nothing but guy stuff with no smelly girls involved then I'd be all for it. I'd declare myself gay there and then.

Sure, but how does that have anything to do with pedophelia

:blink:

That is the problem with social media. People jump into a conversation. I don't even understand the original post that is being discussed.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 16, 2023, 04:06:29 PM
I'm as lefty as it comes, and I don't understand a certain section of the left, especially in the US but not only, organizing stuff like drag queen story hour, and then making it somehow a hill to die on.

If the guy in the drag outfit really has a passion for kids' story hour (?), he can just sign up for it. What's the need for the drag outfit? What purpose does it serve?

I don't get it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 16, 2023, 04:23:15 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 16, 2023, 04:06:29 PMI'm as lefty as it comes, and I don't understand a certain section of the left, especially in the US but not only, organizing stuff like drag queen story hour, and then making it somehow a hill to die on.

If the guy in the drag outfit really has a passion for kids' story hour (?), he can just sign up for it. What's the need for the drag outfit? What purpose does it serve?

I don't get it.

It's not a political thing. It's nutty sections of the right who have decided it is and are trying to crack down on free speech.

Sign up for kids story hour... Is that a thing over there? Like anyone can sign up to read to kids?

Whats the point in drag... Whats the point in drag performances for adults? Couldn't he just do his stand up as a regular guy? It's part of the fun.

Drag queens are over the top, colourful and silly. Most kids really vibe with that.
Honestly I think drag queen story time is a pretty good idea and it's sad and crazy it has blown up as it has. It's got a catchy silly name, really appeals to kids, and you'd think it has a slight undertone of showing any adults set in their ways that gay people aren't all sex pests.

100% seriously if I found out there was an event running near me, it wasn't too expensive, and the schedule was good, we would take our son. Odds are he would absolutely love it. He's super into books and silliness.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Grey Fox on July 16, 2023, 07:51:22 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 16, 2023, 04:06:29 PMI'm as lefty as it comes, and I don't understand a certain section of the left, especially in the US but not only, organizing stuff like drag queen story hour, and then making it somehow a hill to die on.

If the guy in the drag outfit really has a passion for kids' story hour (?), he can just sign up for it. What's the need for the drag outfit? What purpose does it serve?

I don't get it.

It's a very anglosphere conception of multiculturalism and liberal policies. For some reason we must accept the personal liberties of everyone. Even if they are society destroying.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on July 16, 2023, 09:01:48 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 16, 2023, 04:06:29 PMI'm as lefty as it comes, and I don't understand a certain section of the left, especially in the US but not only, organizing stuff like drag queen story hour, and then making it somehow a hill to die on.

If the guy in the drag outfit really has a passion for kids' story hour (?), he can just sign up for it. What's the need for the drag outfit? What purpose does it serve?

I don't get it.
It's so they don't grow up hating gays.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 16, 2023, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 16, 2023, 07:51:22 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 16, 2023, 04:06:29 PMI'm as lefty as it comes, and I don't understand a certain section of the left, especially in the US but not only, organizing stuff like drag queen story hour, and then making it somehow a hill to die on.

If the guy in the drag outfit really has a passion for kids' story hour (?), he can just sign up for it. What's the need for the drag outfit? What purpose does it serve?

I don't get it.

It's a very anglosphere conception of multiculturalism and liberal policies. For some reason we must accept the personal liberties of everyone. Even if they are society destroying.

Some elements of society deserve to be destroyed.

I will admit that I don't "get" Drag Queen Story Hour, either, but I do get "don't make laws that are unnecessary virtue signaling."  That the Republicans don't care that schoolchildren are murdered, because that's better than them seeing a man in drag sickens me.  That's modern American right-wing Christianity at work. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 16, 2023, 10:47:25 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 16, 2023, 04:06:29 PMI'm as lefty as it comes, and I don't understand a certain section of the left, especially in the US but not only, organizing stuff like drag queen story hour, and then making it somehow a hill to die on.

If the guy in the drag outfit really has a passion for kids' story hour (?), he can just sign up for it. What's the need for the drag outfit? What purpose does it serve?

I don't get it.
Well, when it's in a library and parents voluntary sign up to bring their kids to it, I really don't see it's other people's business to tell them they shouldn't bring their kids there.

When it's part of a mandatory activity in school, I'm more ambivalent about it.

I'm totally against the violent hard left protests though.

I disagree with the nutty rightwingers, with if they want to express themselves peacefully, they should have the right to.



@Raz: I don't think it has anything to do with homosexuality, and there are better ways to approach the subject.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Zoupa on July 16, 2023, 11:35:57 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 16, 2023, 09:01:48 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on July 16, 2023, 04:06:29 PMI'm as lefty as it comes, and I don't understand a certain section of the left, especially in the US but not only, organizing stuff like drag queen story hour, and then making it somehow a hill to die on.

If the guy in the drag outfit really has a passion for kids' story hour (?), he can just sign up for it. What's the need for the drag outfit? What purpose does it serve?

I don't get it.
It's so they don't grow up hating gays.

Lots of people didn't have drag queen story hour growing up and don't hate gays, like you and me.

Those kids whose parents are cool with those shows have a pretty low chance to turn into gay-haters later on, I'd argue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on July 17, 2023, 12:44:45 AM
What do you mean "what purpose does it serve"?

Why not just let people do what they enjoy if it doesn't harm anybody?

If someone wants to do a drag story hour, let them. And if other people want to attend it, let them. Doesn't need to serve a purpose any greater than that I don't think.

I mean, at this point it's become a target of required hate and a rallying point for the reactionary right because it serves their purpose to have a marginal group to vilify, but if it wasn't this they'd find something else to spew venom at.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 17, 2023, 01:56:04 AM
I think there might be a funny atlantic cultural gap at work here. When I was a kid I'd see a guy in drag at least 1 or 2 times a year, mostly around Christmas time. It's standard in the UK.
Nonetheless you get nuts here aping the Americans and pretending it's something new and horrid.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on July 17, 2023, 01:58:08 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 17, 2023, 12:44:45 AMWhat do you mean "what purpose does it serve"?

Why not just let people do what they enjoy if it doesn't harm anybody?

If someone wants to do a drag story hour, let them. And if other people want to attend it, let them. Doesn't need to serve a purpose any greater than that I don't think.

I mean, at this point it's become a target of required hate and a rallying point for the reactionary right because it serves their purpose to have a marginal group to vilify, but if it wasn't this they'd find something else to spew venom at.

Exactly. Denounce this as the left and it'll just be on to another issue.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on July 17, 2023, 03:22:33 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 17, 2023, 12:44:45 AMI mean, at this point it's become a target of required hate and a rallying point for the reactionary right
Not just the reactionary right.
Lots of people on the left hate it.

And lots of people on the left can't tolerate any opposition to what they like, hence the conflicts.

I don't care if some people want to bring their children to drag story time.  But you can't force everyone into accepting it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on July 17, 2023, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 17, 2023, 03:22:33 PMI don't care if some people want to bring their children to drag story time.  But you can't force everyone into accepting it.

No one is trying to force anyone into accepting anything.  That's not even possible. 

You can oppose politicians who seek to virtue signal by oppressing the freedoms of speech and assembly of those they think are defenseless.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on July 17, 2023, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 17, 2023, 01:56:04 AMI think there might be a funny atlantic cultural gap at work here. When I was a kid I'd see a guy in drag at least 1 or 2 times a year, mostly around Christmas time. It's standard in the UK.
Nonetheless you get nuts here aping the Americans and pretending it's something new and horrid.

Uk drag seems to be different than NA drag.  You guys dress up as old women and make vague innuendo.  NA drag tradition is more sexually explicit than the (historical) uk variety. Think less Dame Edna and more Divine. Could also be part of the translation issue across the pond.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on July 17, 2023, 11:47:49 PM
Not really. Dressing in drag for laughs is very traditional. Divine is a rather new phenomenon by comparison. I mean it is certainly a thing but not exclusionary.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on July 18, 2023, 06:25:29 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 17, 2023, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 17, 2023, 01:56:04 AMI think there might be a funny atlantic cultural gap at work here. When I was a kid I'd see a guy in drag at least 1 or 2 times a year, mostly around Christmas time. It's standard in the UK.
Nonetheless you get nuts here aping the Americans and pretending it's something new and horrid.

Uk drag seems to be different than NA drag.  You guys dress up as old women and make vague innuendo.  NA drag tradition is more sexually explicit than the (historical) uk variety. Think less Dame Edna and more Divine. Could also be part of the translation issue across the pond.

We have adult oriented drag acts too. Though even there I believe they come in varieties ranging from literal x rated "Where is the line where this becomes porn? I do not know" performers through to raunchy appeals to women of all ages folk- my sister is good friends with a guy who does the latter.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on July 18, 2023, 08:00:38 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 17, 2023, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: Josquius on July 17, 2023, 01:56:04 AMI think there might be a funny atlantic cultural gap at work here. When I was a kid I'd see a guy in drag at least 1 or 2 times a year, mostly around Christmas time. It's standard in the UK.
Nonetheless you get nuts here aping the Americans and pretending it's something new and horrid.

Uk drag seems to be different than NA drag.  You guys dress up as old women and make vague innuendo.  NA drag tradition is more sexually explicit than the (historical) uk variety. Think less Dame Edna and more Divine. Could also be part of the translation issue across the pond.

Not sure about that, drag as comedy has a long tradition here.

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on September 10, 2023, 12:35:32 PM
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/371923069_695245999302690_7859160676318276268_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5614bc&_nc_ohc=Hm6kwWqwUwoAX9hKcGZ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfDoHp3GKtHFwzU2DHIPofyPFbwMMGYpYbsLTUtLIyrFVQ&oe=65021DD2)

Love this one. While in general it's a good sentiment (though I guess the difference in degrees is optimistic).

But note how the first picture has only bicycles and looks chaotic, while the bottom one has only cars, parked in an orderly fashion. :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on September 10, 2023, 01:42:09 PM
What is a temperature of?  If it's air, then I'm not sure how trees can have more than a marginal impact on that.  Temperature of asphalt that's in the sun on top and in the shade on the bottom?  Still seems questionable.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 10, 2023, 06:53:19 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 10, 2023, 01:42:09 PMWhat is a temperature of?  If it's air, then I'm not sure how trees can have more than a marginal impact on that.  Temperature of asphalt that's in the sun on top and in the shade on the bottom?  Still seems questionable.

Anecdotally the temperature by my house - under a bunch of trees - feels several degrees cooler than the temperature in a shaded spot on an open field nearby. And that, again, feels several degrees cooler than a shaded spot up on the main street a few blocks away where heat is absorbed and radiated by bricks, stonework, and asphalt.

It makes sense to me as well, as stones etc absorb the energy of the sun, stores it as heat, and release that heat through radiation. Trees, on the other  hand, absorb the energy of the sun and uses it to power photosynthesis (which does release heat, but I'm guessing some of the energy is still used up).

Which is to say, while I think differences of 16 to 24 C is probably optimistic differences of 5 C seems perfectly in accordance with my observations.

... but I'll go look it up now.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on September 10, 2023, 07:05:47 PM
The EPA says (https://www.epa.gov/heatislands/using-trees-and-vegetation-reduce-heat-islands#Anch1):
QuoteTrees and vegetation also provide cooling through evaporation of rainfall collecting on leaves and soil. Research shows that urban forests have temperatures that are on average 2.9°F lower than unforested urban areas.

... so 1.6 C.

The website of One Tree Planted (https://onetreeplanted.org/blogs/stories/urban-heat-island) on the topic of trees and Urban Heat Islands says:

QuoteTrees and vegetation reduce surface and air temperatures by providing shade — in fact, shaded surfaces, for example, can be as much as 20–45°F cooler than unshaded areas at peak temperature. How? During the sunnier seasons, an urban tree's leaves and branches only allow about 10-30% of solar radiation to reach the area below their canopy. The rest of the solar energy is absorbed through the tree's leaves for photosynthesis — or reflected back into the atmosphere.

That's a range of 11 to 25 C for the temperatures of shaded surfaces (as opposed to air temperatures), which presumably is the kind of data used for Syt's image.

... they also say

QuoteEvapotranspiration, alone or in combination with shading, can help to reduce peak summer temperatures by an estimated 2–9°F (1–5°C).

So it sounds to me like reductions in air temperatures of 1 to 5 C (averaging 1.6 C), and reduction of surface temperatures of 11 to 25 C are perhaps accurate. But yeah, trees do not contribute to a 10 - 25 C drop in air temperatures as one might conclude from the original image.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on September 11, 2023, 02:34:01 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 10, 2023, 12:35:32 PM(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/371923069_695245999302690_7859160676318276268_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5614bc&_nc_ohc=Hm6kwWqwUwoAX9hKcGZ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfDoHp3GKtHFwzU2DHIPofyPFbwMMGYpYbsLTUtLIyrFVQ&oe=65021DD2)

Love this one. While in general it's a good sentiment (though I guess the difference in degrees is optimistic).

But note how the first picture has only bicycles and looks chaotic, while the bottom one has only cars, parked in an orderly fashion. :lol:

Yeah. The trees are right but on everything else they've got the good and bad flipped.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on October 27, 2023, 03:48:33 PM
My brother in law has an opinion on Biden's vs. Trump's foreign policy record.

(https://i.postimg.cc/nrSvnfBw/image.png)




Also, I've seen these posted before with Confederate statues ... but this is a new one:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271601876_10161496410614112_6320570544721646507_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=xgs4EESGiPkAX-3_C-8&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCOsvLZjqut6wKd8vd9t0_ZCMJJArswfJnH_c_usZZNJg&oe=6541B78A)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tonitrus on October 27, 2023, 09:28:17 PM
Sure, why not bring back the Czar.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on November 21, 2023, 12:29:50 PM
My brother in law (red):

(https://i.imgur.com/N8lVbQ8.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on November 21, 2023, 12:45:33 PM
I never have any idea what they are talking about anymore.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 21, 2023, 03:07:38 PM
I get the impression he is projecting without even realising he is doing it in the last post. He doesn't actually have a clue but that's what he has been told to think.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 21, 2023, 07:03:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 21, 2023, 12:45:33 PMI never have any idea what they are talking about anymore.
Let's see. It goes something like,
"EVERYONEISAGAINSTUSWEARELONEVOICEINWILDERNESSCRYINGOUTAGAINSTTHESHEEP!!!"

And a very healthy dose of, "Everything bad in my life is someone else's fault!!!!!!"
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on November 22, 2023, 04:47:46 AM
Everyone is against us. We're the number one poor oppressed minority standing against the sheep.

Yet also.

Silent majority. Everyone agrees.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on November 22, 2023, 06:06:26 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 22, 2023, 04:47:46 AMEveryone is against us. We're the number one poor oppressed minority standing against the sheep.

Yet also.

Silent majority. Everyone agrees.

Those poor downtrodden conservatives. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 22, 2023, 09:30:17 PM
PLus the biggest welfare states screaming about how they support 'the leftists' who never work.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 15, 2023, 01:43:39 PM
Just a quick check in with what my family is sharing online.



(https://i.imgur.com/0LPe4Mi.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/F0cf6c7.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/RPbrLK5.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 15, 2023, 02:13:40 PM
Prepping their followers for their own false flag whit stirring?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 15, 2023, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 15, 2023, 01:43:39 PMJust a quick check in with what my family is sharing online.

Man. On down the racist rabbit hole.

Sort of weird to think of Cruz as a moderating force. Just a nice reminded it can always get worse. I was so happy the notoriously corrupt David Dewhurst had been beaten by this Cruz guy, it never occured to me Cruz would be far worse than Dewhurst and I guess something to keep in mind if Cruz ever goes down it will probably be somebody who sees the evil machinations of the black people behind everything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 17, 2023, 10:50:40 AM
Racism ended with slavery doncha know.  Most 'hate crimes' now are false flag operations.  No loyal Party member could do something wrong.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 18, 2023, 12:25:06 PM
What is agitprop?

I looked it up in the Newspeak dictionary, but it was missing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 18, 2023, 01:34:52 PM
Agitation propaganda.  The 1920s Russian equivalent to social media disinformation. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 18, 2023, 01:40:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 15, 2023, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 15, 2023, 01:43:39 PMJust a quick check in with what my family is sharing online.

Man. On down the racist rabbit hole.

Sort of weird to think of Cruz as a moderating force. Just a nice reminded it can always get worse. I was so happy the notoriously corrupt David Dewhurst had been beaten by this Cruz guy, it never occured to me Cruz would be far worse than Dewhurst and I guess something to keep in mind if Cruz ever goes down it will probably be somebody who sees the evil machinations of the black people behind everything.

Remember back in 2016 Cruz refused to endorse Trump and told the GOP convention (to loud boos) to "vote your conscience".

He's since went seriously downhill with Trump obsequiousness, but he does have a good side to him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on December 18, 2023, 01:56:38 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 18, 2023, 01:34:52 PMAgitation propaganda.  The 1920s Russian equivalent to social media disinformation. 

But I thought these folks liked Fox?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 18, 2023, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 18, 2023, 01:40:46 PMRemember back in 2016 Cruz refused to endorse Trump and told the GOP convention (to loud boos) to "vote your conscience".

He's since went seriously downhill with Trump obsequiousness, but he does have a good side to him.

It was fun watching him squirm when asked about the Texas Supreme Court's ruling in the Kate Cox case*.  He kept telling reporters to ask his press office, and they kept telling him that his press office said it had no idea what his position was.  He ended up fleeing rather than trying to answer the question.


*For those of you who haven't followed the case, Kate Cox, a mother of two, discovered that he fetus had a fatal condition that, if the pregnancy was allowed to advance, risked her health and life as well.  She sought a court order to allow an exemption to Texas's ban on abortions, which the lower court granted (remembering, as we do, that the Texas law is to be enforced by private bounty hunters, not the state, so court protection would be needed to stave off the lynch mob that would otherwise form).  The Texas Supreme Court ruled that the lower court had no power to grant such protection, and voided the lower court's ruling.  Cox was forced to leave the state to get an abortion (which is also against the Texas law, and again enforced by bounty hunters).
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 18, 2023, 03:24:38 PM
I'm peripherally aware of the case - did Cox have an abortion performed out of state?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on December 18, 2023, 03:38:53 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 18, 2023, 03:24:38 PMI'm peripherally aware of the case - did Cox have an abortion performed out of state?

Yes.  Her deteriorating health forced her to leave the state hours before the TSC even handed down its ruling.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 18, 2023, 03:40:09 PM
Didn't Trump insult Cruz' wife personally and repeatedly?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on December 18, 2023, 04:23:08 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 18, 2023, 03:40:09 PMDidn't Trump insult Cruz' wife personally and repeatedly?

Yes. Among other things.

But Cruz ultimately favored his political future over his dignity.

Which is kind of funny because he used to go on and on about how he was unwavering because of God and stuff. God and the opinions of Republican voters I guess.

But, as I said, as much as Cruz sucks the Republicans can and will do worse. I never thought I would miss Rick Perry and David Dewhurst but here we are.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on December 18, 2023, 04:28:09 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 18, 2023, 03:40:09 PMDidn't Trump insult Cruz' wife personally and repeatedly?

I don't know about repeatedly, but Trump did share a social media post comparing Melania to Cruz's wife unfavourably.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/712850174838771712

PLus, of course, the time Trump questioned whether Cruz's father (a Cuban) was involved in the Kennedy assassination. :rolleyes:

Ah well.  Back in 2016 I really didn't like Cruz, then I started to gain respect for him while he was briefly the last challenger to Trump (plus the "vote your conscience" bit), but then he threw it all away to suck up to Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on December 18, 2023, 04:31:46 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 18, 2023, 03:38:53 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 18, 2023, 03:24:38 PMI'm peripherally aware of the case - did Cox have an abortion performed out of state?

Yes.  Her deteriorating health forced her to leave the state hours before the TSC even handed down its ruling.

Glad to hear she had the medical attention she needed.

I recall a somewhat similar case in Ireland a few years back that ended in the death of the woman. IIRC it precipitated some legal changes in that country.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on December 23, 2023, 12:53:14 PM
Courtesy of my niece's husband.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/411422039_10163569073612925_3500752044503188465_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=WnW-ruzKPF4AX-scjPc&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCLFkATLn3G7ql1kAijGyxp0LjMlSQTs2-ZEV48zsS-bg&oe=658C0BCC)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 24, 2023, 01:16:24 AM
America has been falling since Lincoln took power. It's a long fall from the top, what can I say?

I wonder if the 1860 newspapers were saying America was falling too.  ah, I don't have the patience to go read back that far.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on December 24, 2023, 06:16:38 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 24, 2023, 01:16:24 AMAmerica has been falling since Lincoln took power. It's a long fall from the top, what can I say?

I wonder if the 1860 newspapers were saying America was falling too.  ah, I don't have the patience to go read back that far.

Presumably yes, since we were on the verge of a secession crisis and civil war.  ;)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on December 24, 2023, 06:39:56 AM
When certain types of people say you're in decline, you know you're doing alright.

Is there a context to this or is it just a completely weird non sequitur?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Savonarola on December 24, 2023, 07:04:27 AM
Quote from: Josquius on December 24, 2023, 06:39:56 AMWhen certain types of people say you're in decline, you know you're doing alright.

Is there a context to this or is it just a completely weird non sequitur?

One of Senator Ben Cardin's staffers was filmed having sex in the Senate Hearing Chambers.  Of course the video was put online. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on December 24, 2023, 01:24:28 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on December 24, 2023, 06:16:38 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 24, 2023, 01:16:24 AMAmerica has been falling since Lincoln took power. It's a long fall from the top, what can I say?

I wonder if the 1860 newspapers were saying America was falling too.  ah, I don't have the patience to go read back that far.

Presumably yes, since we were on the verge of a secession crisis and civil war.  ;)

Bah.  They should just have let them go.  America wouldn't be falling today. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 13, 2024, 02:30:32 PM
My sister:

(https://i.imgur.com/COrMjSM.png)



Her husband:

(https://i.imgur.com/EP36hta.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on February 13, 2024, 02:36:58 PM
Your sister is a terrible human being  :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on February 13, 2024, 02:52:13 PM
I don't understand why Ken and Barbie were used there.

And if we did use that 60 Billion on America I have a feeling they would bitch about that to. Socialism! Government subsidies!!
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on February 13, 2024, 02:57:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2024, 02:52:13 PMI don't understand why Ken and Barbie were used there.

And if we did use that 60 Billion on America I have a feeling they would bitch about that to. Socialism! Government subsidies!!

+1
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2024, 03:15:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2024, 02:52:13 PMAnd if we did use that 60 Billion on America I have a feeling they would bitch about that to. Socialism! Government subsidies!!

I don't think we would be any happier if they said "I have no clue why aid to Ukraine is bad except Donald told me it is."
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on February 13, 2024, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 13, 2024, 03:15:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2024, 02:52:13 PMAnd if we did use that 60 Billion on America I have a feeling they would bitch about that to. Socialism! Government subsidies!!

I don't think we would be any happier if they said "I have no clue why aid to Ukraine is bad except Donald told me it is."

Why would we be unhappy, and who is "they" in this statement?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2024, 01:26:40 AM
Quote from: Jacob on February 13, 2024, 02:36:58 PMYour sister is a terrible human being  :(

Why, she's only copying this stuff from her son in law. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2024, 01:27:44 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 13, 2024, 02:52:13 PMI don't understand why Ken and Barbie were used there.

And if we did use that 60 Billion on America I have a feeling they would bitch about that to. Socialism! Government subsidies!!

Well, you need to spend it on the right things. Military, border protection, deporting illegal immigrants, funding the police, expanding the prisons, anti-woke school curriculums, ....
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on February 14, 2024, 01:39:34 AM
Sounds like you have the makings of a promising career as a republican, syt.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2024, 01:49:52 AM
Quote from: HVC on February 14, 2024, 01:39:34 AMSounds like you have the makings of a promising career as a republican, syt.

I don't think I'm a good enough grifter. :(
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 05, 2024, 12:26:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5JfMZIX.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/r82N0Wp.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 05, 2024, 08:08:05 PM
I love the fact that the godtalkers cannot comprehend punctuation or capitalization.  If only they had an infallible god to correct all of their posts before they hit the internet.  Stories can be both dumb and properly written.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2024, 08:21:58 PM
If the dude's Marine buddies were fighting and dying for the professor's right to say stupid stuff like that, the dude betrayed his buddies.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Oexmelin on March 05, 2024, 10:22:27 PM
You missed the point. The point is he gets to punch a college professor. All else is secondary in that story.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2024, 10:30:46 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 05, 2024, 10:22:27 PMYou missed the point. The point is he gets to punch a college professor. All else is secondary in that story.

But he feels the need to construct a rationale.  He feels the need for justification.  Hence he has unwittingly entered into the dialectic.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 06, 2024, 09:13:56 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2024, 08:21:58 PMIf the dude's Marine buddies were fighting and dying for the professor's right to say stupid stuff like that, the dude betrayed his buddies.

Also the implication is that all US marines who die in combat are evil because not worthy of God's protection.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 06, 2024, 09:16:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 06, 2024, 09:13:56 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2024, 08:21:58 PMIf the dude's Marine buddies were fighting and dying for the professor's right to say stupid stuff like that, the dude betrayed his buddies.

Also the implication is that all US marines who die in combat are evil because not worthy of God's protection.

Thats because we let gays serve in the military. Duh.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on March 06, 2024, 10:03:53 AM
Military is woke now.  Feminized.  The marine who got triggered by the prof is just fighting back the only way available. Main force.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 06, 2024, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 06, 2024, 09:13:56 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2024, 08:21:58 PMIf the dude's Marine buddies were fighting and dying for the professor's right to say stupid stuff like that, the dude betrayed his buddies.

Also the implication is that all US marines who die in combat are evil because not worthy of God's protection.

Also, an all powerful God can't seem to prevent war.

That all makes sense now since God apparently has a limited range of power. God can't possibly prevent the idiocy of a student assaulting a professor, and do all the other things God needs to do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 06, 2024, 11:56:51 AM
And the marine cockily declares that he knows what is doing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:12:31 PM
I don't mind the marine punches the college professor story.

It's the parable of the drowning man.

QuoteA storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_drowning_man

It's kind of meant as a joke, but has some truth to it as well.  God works in mysterious ways.  Why would God need to smote the professor from the heavens when there's a Marine sitting right there?

The meme could have been a little less vulgar, and the reference to "God being busy protecting his buddies" takes away from the overall message, but otherwise it's fine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 06, 2024, 12:23:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:12:31 PMI don't mind the marine punches the college professor story.

It's the parable of the drowning man.

QuoteA storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_drowning_man

It's kind of meant as a joke, but has some truth to it as well.  God works in mysterious ways.  Why would God need to smote the professor from the heavens when there's a Marine sitting right there?

The meme could have been a little less vulgar, and the reference to "God being busy protecting his buddies" takes away from the overall message, but otherwise it's fine.

But in story of marine, it is the marine saying how God works. Cuts against idea of him working in mysterious ways if the marine knows exactly what God is doing.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 12:28:21 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:12:31 PMThe meme could have been a little less vulgar, and the reference to "God being busy protecting his buddies" takes away from the overall message, but otherwise it's fine.
It gives the impression of a vengeful God, the God of the Old Testament.  The one the Protestants like, actually.

Not surprising, given where it comes from.  It's the God that destroys Sodom and Gomorra, the God that destroys the Earth with a flood.  Not the God that sacrifices his only begotten son on a cross to expiate our sins.

It's kind of a weird message.  Worship me or I'll strike you down.  Worship me or I'll kill you.  Worship me, or the Inquisitors will come for you.  Worship me, or you'll suffer unimaginable pains inflicted by my followers and I'll not only unleash them on upon you, but I'll rejoice on what they do onto you.

And here I thought I should bask in Jesus love 'cause he was supposed to love me unconditionally.

I guess he's just as bad as Satan, after all?  At least, he's honest about it.  He'll torture me with heavy metal, have me committed to engage into sexual relationships before marriage with anyone I want and make me drink before the age of 21.  Or 19, since I'm Canadian.  Sounds terrible.  ;)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 06, 2024, 12:30:22 PM
And lo Jesus said punch him in the cheek. And if that doesn't work, kick him in the shins.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:31:47 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 06, 2024, 12:23:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:12:31 PMI don't mind the marine punches the college professor story.

It's the parable of the drowning man.

QuoteA storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_drowning_man

It's kind of meant as a joke, but has some truth to it as well.  God works in mysterious ways.  Why would God need to smote the professor from the heavens when there's a Marine sitting right there?

The meme could have been a little less vulgar, and the reference to "God being busy protecting his buddies" takes away from the overall message, but otherwise it's fine.

But in story of marine, it is the marine saying how God works. Cuts against idea of him working in mysterious ways if the marine knows exactly what God is doing.

Like I said - I would have worded it a little differently, but you do need someone to say the message of the story.  And since the professor doesn't die and meet God, the marine is the next option.  But yeah I think I would have had him say "well maybe God sent me to your class today".
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: PDH on March 06, 2024, 12:32:12 PM
My problem is the glorification a vigilante vengeance, the hubris of "understanding what God wants" in this.  The preacher in the joke is willful and stubborn, the Marine is shown as believing they are the hand of God.  Perhaps this is just me, but that is my take. (and Garbon's I think)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:34:53 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 12:28:21 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:12:31 PMThe meme could have been a little less vulgar, and the reference to "God being busy protecting his buddies" takes away from the overall message, but otherwise it's fine.
It gives the impression of a vengeful God, the God of the Old Testament.  The one the Protestants like, actually.

Not surprising, given where it comes from.  It's the God that destroys Sodom and Gomorra, the God that destroys the Earth with a flood.  Not the God that sacrifices his only begotten son on a cross to expiate our sins.

It's kind of a weird message.  Worship me or I'll strike you down.  Worship me or I'll kill you.  Worship me, or the Inquisitors will come for you.  Worship me, or you'll suffer unimaginable pains inflicted by my followers and I'll not only unleash them on upon you, but I'll rejoice on what they do onto you.

And here I thought I should bask in Jesus love 'cause he was supposed to love me unconditionally.

I guess he's just as bad as Satan, after all?  At least, he's honest about it.  He'll torture me with heavy metal, have me committed to engage into sexual relationships before marriage with anyone I want and make me drink before the age of 21.  Or 19, since I'm Canadian.  Sounds terrible.  ;)

Well - the professor is the one doing some stupid stunt to try and prove God doesn't exist.  A proof that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

But then you have the marine making the point more forcefully.  Whether or not he was sent by God was immaterial - the professor still got knocked off the chair.

Now - it's just a silly meme.  It's just not one I'm offended by.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on March 06, 2024, 12:38:21 PM
The Prof would probably get a ration of shit from the administration for touching the religion thing. 
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 12:40:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:34:53 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 12:28:21 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:12:31 PMThe meme could have been a little less vulgar, and the reference to "God being busy protecting his buddies" takes away from the overall message, but otherwise it's fine.
It gives the impression of a vengeful God, the God of the Old Testament.  The one the Protestants like, actually.

Not surprising, given where it comes from.  It's the God that destroys Sodom and Gomorra, the God that destroys the Earth with a flood.  Not the God that sacrifices his only begotten son on a cross to expiate our sins.

It's kind of a weird message.  Worship me or I'll strike you down.  Worship me or I'll kill you.  Worship me, or the Inquisitors will come for you.  Worship me, or you'll suffer unimaginable pains inflicted by my followers and I'll not only unleash them on upon you, but I'll rejoice on what they do onto you.

And here I thought I should bask in Jesus love 'cause he was supposed to love me unconditionally.

I guess he's just as bad as Satan, after all?  At least, he's honest about it.  He'll torture me with heavy metal, have me committed to engage into sexual relationships before marriage with anyone I want and make me drink before the age of 21.  Or 19, since I'm Canadian.  Sounds terrible.  ;)

Well - the professor is the one doing some stupid stunt to try and prove God doesn't exist.  A proof that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

But then you have the marine making the point more forcefully.  Whether or not he was sent by God was immaterial - the professor still got knocked off the chair.

Now - it's just a silly meme.  It's just not one I'm offended by.
It's more than a silly meme, imho.  Oex made the point rightly: the moral of the story is that you should punch college professors when they say things you disagree with.  Eg, you should punch anyone you disagree with.

It's a recurring theme with the far left too, mind you.


But since The Orange Clown got the White House, the Right has decomplexified itself about this kind of violence.

This is how you lead people to assault a Congress or a Parliament, step-by-step.  God is irrelevant here, I was just pulling your leg. No offense meant about the religion, I know you're not Evangelical anyway.  :)

Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 06, 2024, 12:41:56 PM
Presumably if the Professor said "If God exists, cure my cancer" the Marine would have done that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:46:06 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 12:40:44 PMThis is how you lead people to assault a Congress or a Parliament, step-by-step.  God is irrelevant here, I was just pulling your leg. No offense meant about the religion, I know you're not Evangelical anyway.  :)

So me and my family got out of the habit of going to Church when the boys got bigger and we're busy every Sunday morning.

But the last church I went to was an evangelical church.

But then again - there are different flavours of evangelicalism.  Heck many/most black churches in the US are evangelical.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:54:43 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 12:40:44 PMIt's more than a silly meme, imho.  Oex made the point rightly: the moral of the story is that you should punch college professors when they say things you disagree with.  Eg, you should punch anyone you disagree with.

It's a recurring theme with the far left too, mind you.

The college professor literally asked to be knocked out of his chair.  That's what makes it different from "punching people you disagree with".

As long as the professor wasn't injured, the marine would likely be found to have participated in a consent fight under Canadian law and not charged with assault.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 06, 2024, 12:58:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:54:43 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 12:40:44 PMIt's more than a silly meme, imho.  Oex made the point rightly: the moral of the story is that you should punch college professors when they say things you disagree with.  Eg, you should punch anyone you disagree with.

It's a recurring theme with the far left too, mind you.

The college professor literally asked to be knocked out of his chair.  That's what makes it different from "punching people you disagree with".

As long as the professor wasn't injured, the marine would likely be found to have participated in a consent fight under Canadian law and not charged with assault.
He didn't ask the marine to knock him out, he asked God.  Wouldn't the marine have to provide evidence that God delegated the punching to him, and also that the professor was okay with the substitution?  If I ask you to punch me, it doesn't mean that I'm okay with you hiring Mike Tyson to punch me for you.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 01:03:01 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 06, 2024, 12:58:44 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:54:43 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 12:40:44 PMIt's more than a silly meme, imho.  Oex made the point rightly: the moral of the story is that you should punch college professors when they say things you disagree with.  Eg, you should punch anyone you disagree with.

It's a recurring theme with the far left too, mind you.

The college professor literally asked to be knocked out of his chair.  That's what makes it different from "punching people you disagree with".

As long as the professor wasn't injured, the marine would likely be found to have participated in a consent fight under Canadian law and not charged with assault.
He didn't ask the marine to knock him out, he asked God.  Wouldn't the marine have to provide evidence that God delegated the punching to him, and also that the professor was okay with the substitution?  If I ask you to punch me, it doesn't mean that I'm okay with you hiring Mike Tyson to punch me for you.

And that's where the marine points to the parable of the drowning man.  If you're asking God to do something that's a pretty wide-open request...

Now, in my 30 second legal analysis, I missed that in the meme the marine punches the prof so hard he knocks him out.  That maybe/probably would cause an injury, which would then change the analysis (R v Jobidon - you can't consent to bodily harm).

Again, if I were going to re-write the story I wouldn't have the prof being knocked unconscious.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: garbon on March 06, 2024, 01:14:48 PM
Quote from: PDH on March 06, 2024, 12:32:12 PMMy problem is the glorification a vigilante vengeance, the hubris of "understanding what God wants" in this.  The preacher in the joke is willful and stubborn, the Marine is shown as believing they are the hand of God.  Perhaps this is just me, but that is my take. (and Garbon's I think)
Yep same thoughts.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: DGuller on March 06, 2024, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 01:03:01 PMAnd that's where the marine points to the parable of the drowning man.  If you're asking God to do something that's a pretty wide-open request...
It's worth a shot, but what if he's still found competent to stand trial?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on March 06, 2024, 04:36:56 PM
It's pretty much an inversion of the parable of the drowning man. Like most of the radical evangelical right, it's basically satanic in its apparently willful inversion of the faith it claims to represent.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 06, 2024, 04:46:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:12:31 PMI don't mind the marine punches the college professor story.

It's the parable of the drowning man.

QuoteA storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_drowning_man

It's kind of meant as a joke, but has some truth to it as well.  God works in mysterious ways.  Why would God need to smote the professor from the heavens when there's a Marine sitting right there?

The meme could have been a little less vulgar, and the reference to "God being busy protecting his buddies" takes away from the overall message, but otherwise it's fine.

If there is a God, who allows a marine to strike a professor, that God is not worth being worshipped and is actually downright evil.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 06, 2024, 04:55:02 PM
At the very least the marine is a bad Christian. Even without the turn the other cheek thing. Even Jesus stopped Peter from committing violence to protect him when he was getting arrested at Gethsemane. Sure his timing was a little late, since a guy lost an ear, but he had a lot on his mind :lol: .
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 06, 2024, 04:58:52 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 06, 2024, 04:55:02 PMAt the very least the marine is a bad Christian. Even without the turn the other cheek thing. Even Jesus stopped Peter from committing violence to protect him when he was getting arrested at Gethsemane. Sure his timing was a little late, since a guy lost an ear, but he had a lot on his mind :lol: .
and he reattached it, iirc.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 06, 2024, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:12:31 PMI don't mind the marine punches the college professor story.

It's the parable of the drowning man.

QuoteA storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_drowning_man

It's kind of meant as a joke, but has some truth to it as well.  God works in mysterious ways.  Why would God need to smote the professor from the heavens when there's a Marine sitting right there?

The meme could have been a little less vulgar, and the reference to "God being busy protecting his buddies" takes away from the overall message, but otherwise it's fine.

Does your story still work if no rescue had shown up?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 06, 2024, 06:23:49 PM
It sounds like real God of the gaps stuff.
Anything happens: you can put a god in there.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 06, 2024, 06:34:31 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 06, 2024, 04:36:56 PMIt's pretty much an inversion of the parable of the drowning man. Like most of the radical evangelical right, it's basically satanic in its apparently willful inversion of the faith it claims to represent.

I think the parable of the drowning man is pretty fucked too.  It's God claiming credit for the good acts of others.  God didn't will the helicopter pilot to fly to the church.  He made that choice himself.  Just like the Marine.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 06, 2024, 07:00:25 PM
I guarantee it that you collectively have spent 50 times as much time analysing that daft piece than its original creator ever put into writing it, and about 500 times more than Syt's relative thinking about it.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on March 06, 2024, 07:31:29 PM
Well its writer was probably a Russian or Chinese bot, so yeah.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 09:33:24 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:46:06 PMBut then again - there are different flavours of evangelicalism.  Heck many/most black churches in the US are evangelical.
Blacks are increasingly voting for Trump.  It's not really a measure of anything.

I've stopped trying to understand any of these ultra religious people.

Besides, while we're in the Facebook thread  (too bad, they now clearly marked it as fake :P )

https://tinyurl.com/33ys6f47
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 06, 2024, 10:20:40 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 09:33:24 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2024, 12:46:06 PMBut then again - there are different flavours of evangelicalism.  Heck many/most black churches in the US are evangelical.
Blacks are increasingly voting for Trump.  It's not really a measure of anything.

I've stopped trying to understand any of these ultra religious people.

Besides, while we're in the Facebook thread  (too bad, they now clearly marked it as fake :P )

https://tinyurl.com/33ys6f47

Blacks are not increasingly voting for Trump.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 11:43:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2024, 10:20:40 PMBlacks are not increasingly voting for Trump.
I would respectefully disagree (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/02/29/donald-trump-black-voters-poll/72756083007/)

Let's say they may not be "increasingly voting" for the orange clown, but they are "increasingly supporting" him.

8% in 2016.  12% in 2020.  Somewhere between 15% and 20% now.

QuoteHowever, Patrick Murray, director of the polling institute at Monmouth University, said that some polls show Trump's support among Black voters has steadily increased from 12% depending on the methodology used and the margin of error. Most polls show that number anywhere between 15% and 20%.

Meanwhile, Biden's support among Black voters has slipped from 87% to 63%.

Biden is losing support among Latinos, Blacks and Arabs.

This is going to get ugly.

They may not all commit to vote for Trump on the ballot, but they risk repeating Hillary's moment and not voting.  Which is a definite advantage to Trump.

Despite all the talks about moderate Republicans being repelled by Trump, I don't believe they will refrain from voting for him in the general election.  They'll close rank on him.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 07, 2024, 01:31:29 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 11:43:33 PM8% in 2016.  12% in 2020.  Somewhere between 15% and 20% now.

We'll see. You have to excuse me if I am not skeptical. The blacks are about to vote Republican any minute has been a constant propaganda thing for decades.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 07, 2024, 01:46:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 06, 2024, 12:41:56 PMPresumably if the Professor said "If God exists, cure my cancer" the Marine would have done that.

Well, in the (brilliant and hilarious) movie Adam's Apples (which draws from the Book of Job), pastor Mads Mikkelsen had his brain tumor removed by a thug shooting him in the head, so .... :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 07, 2024, 09:43:13 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 07, 2024, 01:31:29 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 06, 2024, 11:43:33 PM8% in 2016.  12% in 2020.  Somewhere between 15% and 20% now.

We'll see. You have to excuse me if I am not skeptical. The blacks are about to vote Republican any minute has been a constant propaganda thing for decades.


(https://i.imgur.com/NOZiF3T.png)


(https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/UPENYNAX3BXXYUBCULDXL42CC4.jpg)


(https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/LC3UEWXU2OZJUIYYZFJIA3BUY4.jpg)


You never know... You never know... ;)


Ok, seriously, even if they are at 20%, they are unlikely to be evenly spread out throughout the entire country.

The support may be higher in some parts of the country where the Republicans already garner support, so it's meaningless.  Winning by 85% or winning by 55% is the same.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 07, 2024, 09:51:43 AM
The Kanye West/Trump thing from a few years ago did seem to be going somewhere.
It does seem to me if a popular black celebrity or two got behind Trump they could bring over a significant chunk of idiots.

With the Latinos going republican too I think the spread across the country factor is significant? Isn't much of this Cubans and Venezuelans in Florida with their socialism paranoia?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 07, 2024, 09:56:47 AM
I could show you equal number of pictures of Hungarian gypsies with t-shirts with "I hate gypsies" on them. Doesn't mean gypsies will vote on Nazis in droves.

I mean, they do absolutely vote Fidesz in droves but Fidesz is very careful about not being racist against them.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 07, 2024, 10:02:56 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 06, 2024, 07:00:25 PMI guarantee it that you collectively have spent 50 times as much time analysing that daft piece than its original creator ever put into writing it, and about 500 times more than Syt's relative thinking about it.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's correct. Vast numbers of the evangelical rights. Spend many hours every weekend thinking about this very thing and they come to very different conclusions than we do.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 09, 2024, 02:47:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vxndS1J.png)

The text reads:

QuoteYet another attack on our citizens and food supply! Why Texas you might ask?
They are the main ones fighting the border invasion and alot of the beef most states consume comes from The Lone Star State. The post I shared says wildfires, but anyone paying attention lately knows they weren't wildfires. Forest fires typically burn at 1,472° F. The glass used in vehicles don't melt until 2,552 to 2,912 degrees F. You tell me how all the buildings and cars are completely destroyed but the trees right next to them are still standing. The conversation needs to be had but alot of people just don't have the IQ required to carry on such a conversation that requires critical thinking skills.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 09, 2024, 04:56:36 PM
Ohhh is it aliens?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Tamas on March 09, 2024, 05:58:38 PM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNGFiZ2d2b3IwNmJ2bTd1ZnZ1aWh6bXQzYnI3N3lpdW1iNHA0ZXdncCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/A928XcIImHJAc/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on March 09, 2024, 06:11:41 PM
The fires were started by the Death Star of David, which is in high orbit.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 09, 2024, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 09, 2024, 06:11:41 PMThe fires were started by the Death Star of David, which is in high orbit.
Sneaky :Joos
They can adjust the intensity of their space lasers.

Next thing you know, they gonna be eating birds and hamsters up in their space saucers.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 09, 2024, 09:14:15 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 09, 2024, 02:47:42 PM
QuoteYet another attack on our citizens and food supply! Why Texas you might ask?
They are the main ones fighting the border invasion and alot of the beef most states consume comes from The Lone Star State. The post I shared says wildfires, but anyone paying attention lately knows they weren't wildfires. Forest fires typically burn at 1,472° F. The glass used in vehicles don't melt until 2,552 to 2,912 degrees F. You tell me how all the buildings and cars are completely destroyed but the trees right next to them are still standing. The conversation needs to be had but alot of people just don't have the IQ required to carry on such a conversation that requires critical thinking skills.

Because trees are loaded full of water and actually don't burn nearly as easily as buildings made of dead trees? Hate to think critically here or anything.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 09, 2024, 11:03:22 PM
Humans masted fire over a million years ago.  This guy still hasn't gotten the memo.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 10, 2024, 01:00:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 09, 2024, 09:14:15 PMBecause trees are loaded full of water and actually don't burn nearly as easily as buildings made of dead trees? Hate to think critically here or anything.
Thinking.  That's your problem.

But they ain't technically dead trees.  They are very much alive when we cut them.  They cry for mother Earth, they weep tears of pain.

We just let them dry a little before they are sent to be savagely butchered in a mill, an then cooked in an oven to be dried out of all that excessive water.  It's kinda like Dune, but we don't keep the water. :P
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 11, 2024, 05:31:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 09, 2024, 11:03:22 PMHumans masted fire over a million years ago.  This guy still hasn't gotten the memo.

Mastered it a million years ago?  More like a few hundred thousand years ago.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: grumbler on March 12, 2024, 10:58:40 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 11, 2024, 05:31:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 09, 2024, 11:03:22 PMHumans masted fire over a million years ago.  This guy still hasn't gotten the memo.

Mastered it a million years ago?  More like a few hundred thousand years ago.

Yeah, I've told Raz a million times not to exaggerate.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on March 12, 2024, 11:20:04 AM
I think Homo Erectus used fire.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on March 12, 2024, 11:27:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 12, 2024, 11:20:04 AMI think Homo Erectus used fire.
Some say they did. One of the theories as to why we developed bigger brains.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 12, 2024, 02:39:59 PM
Master is the contentious word there.

From what I've read there was a huge chunk of human development where we were using fire when we could get it but hadn't really figured out how to make it at will.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: The Minsky Moment on March 12, 2024, 04:31:23 PM
As I recall, there was a Quest for it, which inexplicably resulted in the invention of the missionary position.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 13, 2024, 01:16:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 12, 2024, 04:31:23 PMAs I recall, there was a Quest for it, which inexplicably resulted in the invention of the missionary position.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 27, 2024, 03:02:35 PM
Shared by my family. Not bothering to anonymize these names - none of them are part of my family, and it's publicly accessible.

(https://i.imgur.com/eQmh8QK.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on March 27, 2024, 04:50:30 PM
I like the "It's all essentials, no luxury".  Restaurants and airfare, sure.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 28, 2024, 05:21:35 AM
Obviously nothing would work with the zealots. But for those whose vote is up for grabs I do wonder what the best tactics on this would be.
It obviously isn't Biden's fault...but how to communicate that.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Syt on March 28, 2024, 03:04:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MEHG2uo.png)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2024, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Josquius on March 28, 2024, 05:21:35 AMObviously nothing would work with the zealots. But for those whose vote is up for grabs I do wonder what the best tactics on this would be.
It obviously isn't Biden's fault...but how to communicate that.

A semester on macro economics.

The left does the same thing when it's their turn.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 28, 2024, 05:23:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 28, 2024, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Josquius on March 28, 2024, 05:21:35 AMObviously nothing would work with the zealots. But for those whose vote is up for grabs I do wonder what the best tactics on this would be.
It obviously isn't Biden's fault...but how to communicate that.

A semester on macro economics.

The left does the same thing when it's their turn.

Yeah and its bullshit. Bill Clinton started that shit and it was stupid then.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 28, 2024, 05:47:13 PM
Is it bullshit? Surely it's pretty standard that the economy of today is made by decisions from a few years ago?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Valmy on March 28, 2024, 05:51:46 PM
Quote from: Josquius on March 28, 2024, 05:47:13 PMIs it bullshit? Surely it's pretty standard that the economy of today is made by decisions from a few years ago?

It can be but usually it is stuff that happened long before a few years ago or from events that had nothing to do with decisions made by the government. Sometimes supply and demand and economics just sort of happen.

And it gets really stupid. People start blaming the economy on the President the second he gets into office as if somehow just him getting elected shifted the whole economy around.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 29, 2024, 10:46:13 AM
Quote from: Josquius on March 28, 2024, 05:47:13 PMIs it bullshit? Surely it's pretty standard that the economy of today is made by decisions from a few years ago?

Yes, but the decisions of billions of people throughout the world not one person in one country.

Also, it's very odd in the American context especially to claim that a president is all powerful enough to single-handedly control economic outcomes
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Josquius on March 29, 2024, 12:18:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 29, 2024, 10:46:13 AM
Quote from: Josquius on March 28, 2024, 05:47:13 PMIs it bullshit? Surely it's pretty standard that the economy of today is made by decisions from a few years ago?

Yes, but the decisions of billions of people throughout the world not one person in one country.

Also, it's very odd in the American context especially to claim that a president is all powerful enough to single-handedly control economic outcomes

I dunno. Better handling of Russia and covid definitely were things trump could have done.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on March 29, 2024, 02:33:10 PM
how do you think Covid could've been handled by anybody in anyway that would not have had a negative impact on the economy?

The Pandemic is one of the best examples of an external factor that was out of the control of everybody.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 06, 2024, 12:22:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/HrcOz6n.jpg)
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 06, 2024, 12:44:54 PM
What do they offer me, a guy who is basically fine with Western Neoliberal Imperial Hegemony and Western Multicultural Degenerate Globalism?
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Jacob on April 06, 2024, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2024, 12:44:54 PMWhat do they offer me, a guy who is basically fine with Western Neoliberal Imperial Hegemony and Western Multicultural Degenerate Globalism?

Islamophobia.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: HVC on April 06, 2024, 12:58:31 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 06, 2024, 02:52:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 06, 2024, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2024, 12:44:54 PMWhat do they offer me, a guy who is basically fine with Western Neoliberal Imperial Hegemony and Western Multicultural Degenerate Globalism?

Islamophobia.
Yeah, that doesn't really interest me.  I ate a Syrian joint the other day.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: viper37 on April 06, 2024, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2024, 02:52:11 PMI ate a Syrian joint the other day.
I don't have much experience, but my understanding of cannabis, is that joints should not be consumed that way.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: crazy canuck on April 07, 2024, 08:58:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2024, 02:52:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 06, 2024, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2024, 12:44:54 PMWhat do they offer me, a guy who is basically fine with Western Neoliberal Imperial Hegemony and Western Multicultural Degenerate Globalism?

Islamophobia.
Yeah, that doesn't really interest me.  I ate a Syrian joint the other day.

Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2024, 02:52:11 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 06, 2024, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2024, 12:44:54 PMWhat do they offer me, a guy who is basically fine with Western Neoliberal Imperial Hegemony and Western Multicultural Degenerate Globalism?

Islamophobia.
Yeah, that doesn't really interest me.  I ate a Syrian joint the other day.

You are what you eat.
Title: Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
Post by: Razgovory on April 07, 2024, 09:32:18 PM
I am indeed a meat pie.
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