Languish.org

General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Syt on February 14, 2019, 12:53:39 AM

Title: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2019, 12:53:39 AM
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/13/18223815/eu-copyright-directive-article-11-13-trilogues-finished-final-vote-parliament

QuoteAfter a brief rebellion, the EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote

The hated Articles 11 and 13 of the EU Copyright Directive remain intact after final efforts to remove them fail

Last-minute negotiations over the wording of the European Union's controversial Copyright Directive have come to a close, and only a full vote by the European Parliament stands in the way of the legislation becoming law.

The final text of the directive has been wrangled over during closed-door negotiations for the last few months. It had been hoped by campaigners that these talks, known as trilogues, would mitigate or even remove what they see as the worst effects of two of the directive's sub-clauses: Articles 11 and 13, better known as the "link tax" and "upload filter."

A rebellion by a handful of member states offered some hope in January, but a last-minute deal between France and Germany has now resolved the dispute.

The final text of the Copyright Directive has yet to be shared, but Pirate MEP Julia Reda, a prominent opponent of the law, offered a summary on her blog. Much of what has already been criticized remains the same. Under Article 13 of the final text, says Reda, for-profit platforms like YouTube, Tumblr, and Twitter will be forced to proactively scan user-uploaded content for material that infringes copyright. Article 11, meanwhile, gives publishers the right to charge search engines, aggregators, and other sites if they reproduce more than "single words or very short extracts" of news stories.

Big tech companies, academics, and even rights-holders (many of whom initially supported the Copyright Directive) have come out against these two articles. Although much of the legislation offers a sensible overhaul of outdated copyright law for the internet age, the imprecise wording and vague ambitions of Articles 11 and 13 have infuriated many.

A number of organizations representing European music, sports, and broadcasting industries say the current approach will have "serious harm" and risks, leaving "European producers, distributors and creators worse off."

Sebastian Schwemer, a researcher at the Centre for Information and Innovation Law in Denmark, told The Verge that the deal was part of a larger trend to try and filter the internet using so-called "proactive measures." He said: "But a broader debate in society, whether the use of such proactive measures is even desirable, is missing."

There is still one last chance for those fighting against the Copyright Directive. Now that trilogue negotiations are over, the text will be put before the European Parliament for a final vote by all 751 MEPs sometime in March or April. Given that EU elections take place in May, activists are hoping that the threat of being booted out of office will be strong enough to persuade MEPs to vote against the directive or at least vote for some changes.

4.5 million EU citizens signed a petition against these changes, and were ignored. For the upload filter, sites are exempt if they fulfill these three conditions (all of them):
- less than 3 years old
- less than 10 million EUR revenue p.a.
- less than 5 million unique users per month

YouTube has hinted that, for Europe, they might limit uploads to large corporations and media producers:

QuoteYouTube CEO Susan Wojcick, for one, appears to be pretty concerned as we highlighted earlier this week.

"The proposal could force platforms, like YouTube, to allow only content from a small number of large companies. It would be too risky for platforms to host content from smaller original content creators, because the platforms would now be directly liable for that content," she explained.

A main criticism is that these upload filters would struggle to tell legit content (say, a parody) from a copyright violation. Not to mention that YT's ContentID is known to be error prone. There's also questions on what would happen to discussion forums on news sites - e.g. if someone posts a link to or text from another news story. If enforced as written, any site where you can upload a photo (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc.) would have to copyright-check every image that someone snaps and shares with their cell phone. These upload filters as e.g. YouTube has them cost tens of millions to develop and implement, so the likely outcome would be the big companies servicing (and charging) smaller companies to allow them to be compliant.

A smaller topic, but one that's dear to my heart is live streaming - if sites have to prevent publishing of copyrighted material, what does that mean for sites like Twitch? To protect itself, a site like Twitch might decide it's better to block streamers from Europe. On the other hand, it might be a repeat of the Let's Play discussion where many/most publishers give blanket permission to stream their games. Still, Twitch would be liable if a streamer uses copyrighted music in their streams (which many do - it has no effect on the live broadcast, but the archived videos generally get muted for the duration of the songs; though in my experience Twitch is far more lenient about it than YouTube).

As for the link tax (or Google Tax as it was referred to in Germany) - its implementation was shaky. Many news sites gave Google permission to link to them for free (how gracious). Those that didn't were removed from search results by Google. Some sites took Google to court for this - they said Google has so much market power that not linking to them was an abuse of power because it seriously curtailed traffic. In other words they wanted to force Google to link to them AND pay them for the privilege. Fortunately, the courts kicked the claims out.

Overall, if this passes parliament, it's very unclear what it means for the internet in the EU, but the general feeling is that it will severely limiting the content by what can be shared online, and potentially removing the EU form parts of the global community if major sites like YouTube decide to either not operate in Europe any more, or severely limit their services over here.

At the same time, naturally, EU politicians routinely whine why innovation in the internet and electronics mostly happens with big companies in the US and China.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2019, 12:55:22 AM
Btw, the exception for new/small companies was a compromise, apparently. Germany wanted a 20 million revenue cap. France wanted to have 0 exceptions and make everyone liable..
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Tamas on February 14, 2019, 04:51:10 AM
So what can this achieve except making sure no Internet company will ever be hosting its servers in the EU?
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on February 14, 2019, 04:56:09 AM
It will help the UK out after we leave  :P
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Tamas on February 14, 2019, 05:04:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 14, 2019, 04:56:09 AM
It will help the UK out after we leave  :P

That certainly is a good point.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: garbon on February 14, 2019, 05:20:10 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 14, 2019, 05:04:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 14, 2019, 04:56:09 AM
It will help the UK out after we leave  :P

That certainly is a good point.

:D
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Syt on February 14, 2019, 05:22:53 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 14, 2019, 04:51:10 AM
So what can this achieve except making sure no Internet company will ever be hosting its servers in the EU?

Well, if they offer their content in Europe, and have offices here, they would still be liable. For small companies I think it will be with what happened when GDPR went live: they will just block EU IPs. Others will choose their battles. YouTube's CEO's quote is in my post, so they might just limit uploads for Europeans to corporations where they have high confidence in compliance.

If anything, it will strengthen market power of big companies, who have the resources to become compliant.

Practically, what would this mean for this forum, if we share a copyrighted image, or post parts of a news story from an EU creator? No fucking clue. Would this address be blocked? Would someone go after moldy for damages? Would it fly under the radar? No idea, really.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 14, 2019, 05:33:51 AM
I thought it only applied to for profits.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: mongers on February 14, 2019, 09:48:01 AM
Timmay and consequently whoever 'owns' Languish will be bankrupted.  :(
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2019, 05:01:25 PM
Nah, VM will just have to block EU addresses.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: dps on February 14, 2019, 06:33:26 PM
At a guess, since Languish doesn't do business in Europe (or anywhere, actually), the owner can just tell the EU to shove it.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: viper37 on February 14, 2019, 11:42:05 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 14, 2019, 05:22:53 AM
Practically, what would this mean for this forum, if we share a copyrighted image, or post parts of a news story from an EU creator? No fucking clue. Would this address be blocked? Would someone go after moldy for damages? Would it fly under the radar? No idea, really.
copyrighted image:  not much.  the forum does not host images, it only links to them.  and it does not facilitate copyright infringement like a torrent site.

part of a newsstory: that is already illegal to do without their explicit consent.  Some forum users in Canada have been sued for that by a formerly big news conglomerate.  I'm not sure it was specific to Canada, copyright stuff tends to be largely harmonized.

I think it mostly plugs holes.  But I haven't read the speficics of the law and I'm not a legal expert...
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Syt on February 15, 2019, 01:10:42 AM
The proposed law would make it illegal to show more than a few words (including headline, so long headlines would be forbidden to quote in their entirety). The proposal in current revision would grant no exceptions to private users, non-profits, etc. Statute of limitations is 20 years.

Main target are search engines and news aggregators, but I also assume sites like Twitter or Facebook where if you link an article you get a headline and part of the story. German newspapers argue that these sites profit from using their copyrighted content, and that showing, say, the first few sentences of an article is giving so much info that a lot of users don't click through to the full article any more.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Solmyr on February 15, 2019, 04:14:37 AM
Tbh, users actually reading the articles they link or reply to would be a massive improvement.  :P
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Tamas on February 15, 2019, 07:30:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 15, 2019, 01:10:42 AM
The proposed law would make it illegal to show more than a few words (including headline, so long headlines would be forbidden to quote in their entirety). The proposal in current revision would grant no exceptions to private users, non-profits, etc. Statute of limitations is 20 years.

Main target are search engines and news aggregators, but I also assume sites like Twitter or Facebook where if you link an article you get a headline and part of the story. German newspapers argue that these sites profit from using their copyrighted content, and that showing, say, the first few sentences of an article is giving so much info that a lot of users don't click through to the full article any more.

Not that anyone will care but I wonder how this affects translated quotes? One lucky thing for Hungarian journalists is that they can translate most of a foreign article, put the link to the bottom of it, and get all the clicks for it.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Syt on March 26, 2019, 07:51:43 AM
https://www.cnet.com/news/article-13-eu-approves-controversial-meme-busting-copyright-law/

QuoteArticle 13: EU approves controversial meme-busting copyright law

The vote could change the way memes spread and gifs are shared. Tech companies and citizens alike are not impressed.

The European Parliament on Tuesday voted in favor of adopting a controversial new law that will bring sweeping reforms to how copyrighted content posted online is governed. The legislation was adopted with 348 votes in favor and 274 against.

For proponents of digital rights, the decision will come as a huge blow after over a year of campaigning for what they perceive as the upholding of the integrity of the internet. Member of the European Parliament Julia Reda, one of the most vocal critics of the directive said on Twitter that the vote signals a "dark day for internet freedom.

Years in the making, the EU Copyright Directive has been heavily debated and divisive among politicians, as well as a cause of concern for the tech industry. One part of the proposal in particular -- Article 13, which will govern the way copyrighted content is uploaded to the internet -- has many in the tech community throwing their hands up in despair.

The effects of the law may be felt well beyond Europe's borders, given the global nature of the internet and the need for tech companies to come up with policies that can be broadly applied. That's what happened when the EU enacted the privacy-focused General Data Protection Regulation, or GDPR, in May 2018.

"In a stunning rejection of the will five million online petitioners, and over 100,000 protestors this weekend, the European Parliament has abandoned common-sense and the advice of academics, technologists, and UN human rights experts, and approved the Copyright in the Digital Single Market Directive in its entirety," said rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation in a blog post.

Before the text can be adopted in European law, it must next be approved by the Council of the European Union. It's still possible that the directive may not be passed by the Council, but that would involve at least one key country changing its mind. A vote is expected to take place on April 9.

A second section of the directive, Article 11, which says search engines and news aggregators will be charged to display snippets of news they're linking to (known as a link tax), is also frustrating tech companies.

Back in January, Google said it may have to pull its news service from Europe entirely if the directive passes in its current state. Screenshots captured by Search Engine Land showed how Google news results could appear in Europe if Google doesn't pay the tax (spoiler alert: they're just a bunch of empty boxes). Google didn't immediately respond to a request for comment following the outcome of the vote.

Article 13 dictates that anyone sharing copyrighted content must get permission from rights owners -- or at least have made the best possible effort to get permission -- before doing so. But this doesn't just mean full songs, movies, TV shows and images. It also means gifs, memes and screenshots. [They did add some stipulations that exclude e.g. memes]

In order to enforce this, internet platforms will be forced to use upload filters to evaluate anything they put online. Even the wealthiest online services such as Facebook and YouTube, which have spent years developing this technology, haven't been able to prove pre-moderation of content is a foolproof method for preventing content from surfacing online that shouldn't be there.

Ahead of the vote on Tuesday, EU Commissioner for the Digital Single Market Andrus Ansip pointed out that nothing in the text of the legislation stipulates the use of upload filters. But it's hard to imagine a way in which tech platforms and social networks could otherwise realistically comply with the rules.

The concern is that the legislation will lead to a far more locked-down and less creative version of the internet as we know it today. It may also stymie competition between internet platforms, as only the biggest and wealthiest may be able to afford to comply with the legislation.

Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Grey Fox on March 26, 2019, 09:58:09 AM
Fixing the web 2.0 is hard. I don't think this will work but I'm happy someone is willing to try.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Tamas on March 26, 2019, 10:00:00 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 26, 2019, 09:58:09 AM
Fixing the web 2.0 is hard. I don't think this will work but I'm happy someone is willing to try.

They do try hard to make sure no content provider can ever rise in Europe to rival the current big media.

You sure seem to strongly support state-enforced monopolies.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Grey Fox on March 26, 2019, 10:16:41 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 26, 2019, 10:00:00 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 26, 2019, 09:58:09 AM
Fixing the web 2.0 is hard. I don't think this will work but I'm happy someone is willing to try.

They do try hard to make sure no content provider can ever rise in Europe to rival the current big media.

You sure seem to strongly support state-enforced monopolies.

Especially if they are state-owned. Which, sadly, is not the case here.

So far this idea of rivaling big media only served to create even bigger media that seem to shed all responsibilities.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Syt on March 26, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
My expectation: Google will stop linking to any news site that doesn't give them permission to link their content.

Major players will either tighten the screws on their content filters, or severely limit what EU users can see/upload on their platforms.

Take Twitch: they would have to assure that all content streamed live on their platform is properly licensed. I expect most gaming companies will happily give blanket permissions, but you have plenty people running commercial music in their streams as background, or they might play a game (GTA) with licensed music in it that can't be re-broadcast.

Many smaller platforms might be struggling to comply. Considering this applies to any "commercial" platform that has been around for at least 3 years (or makes a certain amount of money/attracts a certain amount of visitors - I suspect most will be caught by the "3 years" rule) is liable for their content. In the past, courts in Germany defined "commercial" very widely. Running paid ads on your website might be enough.

Additionally, what would happen with comments sections on news sites? Would the site have to screen every comment for possible copyright violations, i.e. someone quoting a topical work of literature or music?



Axel Voss, the EU MoP who was championing/leading the new law efforts was interviewed by several outlets and showed an astonishing lack of understanding of the digital world, not to mention that he couldn't answer basic questions.

Q: "If I share a news link on my Twitter account my Twitter account contains a link to my employer, is this a private or commercial post?"
A: "Uhm, That's for the judiciary to determine."

Voss: "Of course I expect that it will be fine if I share a news article with my 500 Facebook friends."
Interviewer: "But how would you consider this to be different from photocopying the article 500 times and passing it out to people on the street?"
Voss: "... That will depend on how the law is applied."



Proponents of the law say it will support content creators to be fairly paid. However, other parts of the directive re-open the door for "total buyout", i.e. being able to buy 100% rights to something without the creator retaining any stake in the content, and for a regulation that allows licensing companies to give more money to publishers and less to writers - something a German court recently struck down.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: mongers on March 26, 2019, 01:53:51 PM
I blame Timmay for bringing this down upon our heads, what with his years of thread spamming. 



:P
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Josquius on March 26, 2019, 05:29:05 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 14, 2019, 04:56:09 AM
It will help the UK out after we leave  :P


Isn't the UK introducing even worse rules?
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 27, 2019, 12:53:12 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 26, 2019, 05:29:05 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 14, 2019, 04:56:09 AM
It will help the UK out after we leave  :P


Isn't the UK introducing even worse rules?

No  :hmm: ?
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Tamas on March 27, 2019, 04:47:41 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 27, 2019, 12:53:12 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 26, 2019, 05:29:05 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 14, 2019, 04:56:09 AM
It will help the UK out after we leave  :P


Isn't the UK introducing even worse rules?

No  :hmm: ?

He thinks of porn.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Tamas on March 27, 2019, 04:48:17 AM
BTW what if a service just has its servers outside of the EU?
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Syt on March 27, 2019, 04:57:33 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 27, 2019, 04:48:17 AM
BTW what if a service just has its servers outside of the EU?

I'm guessing they will either have to comply or use geoblocking - see some US blocking EU IPs because they don't want to expose themselves to GDPR issues.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Tamas on March 27, 2019, 05:00:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 27, 2019, 04:57:33 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 27, 2019, 04:48:17 AM
BTW what if a service just has its servers outside of the EU?

I'm guessing they will either have to comply or use geoblocking - see some US blocking EU IPs because they don't want to expose themselves to GDPR issues.

But why would the EU have jurisdiction over what's on a -say- American server?
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Syt on March 27, 2019, 05:20:32 AM
Don't ask me about the finer points, but the argument as I understand it is that if you can reach the content from within the EU, and/or make money within the EU then EU law applies to you ... how enforceable this is is debatable, but it's not unheard of that European countries require ISPs to block certain sites (e.g. torrent sites).
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Tamas on March 27, 2019, 05:29:34 AM
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aWYbYb3_700bwp.webp)
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Solmyr on March 27, 2019, 07:09:53 AM
Well good thing I have a lifetime VPN subscription.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: Syt on March 27, 2019, 07:11:30 AM
That works for consumers of content. Creators who want to monetize their content probably not so much.
Title: Re: EU link tax and upload filter will move to a final vote
Post by: alfred russel on March 27, 2019, 01:30:25 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 27, 2019, 05:00:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 27, 2019, 04:57:33 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 27, 2019, 04:48:17 AM
BTW what if a service just has its servers outside of the EU?

I'm guessing they will either have to comply or use geoblocking - see some US blocking EU IPs because they don't want to expose themselves to GDPR issues.

But why would the EU have jurisdiction over what's on a -say- American server?

Presumably google and facebook will want to sell advertising in Europe.