46 Indian soldiers killed in Kashmir
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-india-47249133
Traffic was blocked by a pro-war demonstration when I was in India recently. Extremely orderly though, especially considering we were in India: despite guys shouting slogans, waving fists, fire in the middle of the street etc they told us we could pass in "10-15 minutes". 10-15 minutes later they let traffic pass again, having showed their support for war.
A pro-war protest displaying proper military discipline shows their commitment to the cause.
"Let's start a war! A nuclear war! at the gay bar gay bar gay bar!"
Support for war against someone in particular or just war in general?
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 23, 2019, 01:44:31 PM
Support for war against someone in particular or just war in general?
Of course it's a just war.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/25/world/asia/india-pakistan-kashmir-jets.html
QuoteIndian Jets Strike in Pakistan in Revenge for Kashmir Attack
NEW DELHI — Indian warplanes conducted airstrikes in Pakistan on Tuesday, Pakistani officials said, in an escalation of tensions between the nuclear-armed nations after a suicide bombing against Indian troops in the disputed region this month.
If confirmed, it would be the first time that Indian aircraft had crossed the Kashmir Line of Control to strike in years. But it was unclear what, if anything, the attack jets hit on the Pakistani side, raising the possibility that India was making a calculated bet to assuage public anger but minimize the risk of a major Pakistani military response.
A spokesman for Pakistan's armed forces, Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor, on Tuesday posted on Twitter four images of a forested area pockmarked with small craters and debris, which he said was the site of Indian airstrikes.
The Indian Foreign Ministry confirmed in a news briefing that a strike had occurred but would give no further details. The Indian news media, quoting local military officials, said Indian Mirage 2000 fighter jets dropped bombs on a "terrorist camp" in Pakistan-controlled territory at 3:30 a.m. local time.
No casualties or damage were reported, General Ghafoor said. The planes dropped the bombs near Balakot, which is close to the disputed border of India and Pakistan.
"Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot," General Ghafoor wrote.
Tensions have escalated in the Kashmir Valley since a Feb. 14 attack by a suicide bomber who drove an explosive-filled vehicle into a convoy of Indian troops. At least 40 soldiers were killed, the deadliest attack in the region in decades. India blamed Pakistan for the assault.
Though India and Pakistan routinely shell each other across what is known as the Line of Control, this is the first time in years that either side has deployed warplanes to fly across it.
Western security officials have raised questions about the existence of a large-scale training camp, saying that Pakistan no longer runs such camps and that militant groups are spread out in small groups around the country.
Analysts and diplomats in New Delhi said the targets of the Indian airstrikes were unclear, as any terrorist groups operating along the border would have cleared out in recent days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India vowed retaliation over the Kashmir attack.
Residents have also fled the area as hundreds of Kashmiris have been arrested and Indian troops have moved more troops into the region.
The Indian attack is likely to draw a response from Pakistan, analysts say.
"The Pakistanis are bound to react, conventionally and not through a proxy like a militant group," said Rahul Bedi, an analyst at the London-based Jane's Information Group, which tracks the defense industry. "Where they react and when is something that only Pakistanis know. This is a dangerous situation, as this brinkmanship can escalate quickly."
The American government has typically been a broker between India and Pakistan, conducting shuttle diplomacy in similarly heated situations. But President Trump has taken a hard line on Pakistan while drawing closer to India since coming to office in 2017. Observers fear the situation may escalate further in the absence of a third nation tamping down tensions.
Early last year, Mr. Trump cut some $1.3 billion in military assistance to Pakistan because of the country's support of terrorist groups. Pakistan's military denies that it engages terrorist groups to achieve its defense and foreign policy objectives.
India controls much of Kashmir, while Pakistan controls a smaller part of the region, which was left in an undetermined state after the British partition of India in 1947. It has seen decades of violence from militants seeking independence.
In the run-up to Indian elections this spring, and with Mr. Modi facing a fierce a re-election fight, voters have demanded that New Delhi respond to the Kashmir attack with force against Pakistan.
"What they hit is speculation for now — they say they hit a terrorist camp, but a lot of intelligence sources say those camps in Pakistan had been cleaned out in recent days," Mr. Bedi said. "This is more political symbolism than anything else. Mr. Modi had to show some demonstrable action on India's part, ahead of elections."
Yikes
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47383634 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47383634)
QuotePakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' in Kashmir escalation
Pakistan says it has shot down two India Air Force jets in its airspace in Kashmir and arrested one pilot on the ground.
Military spokesman Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor said one of the planes had fallen in Pakistan-controlled territory while the other fell in Indian territory.
On Tuesday India launched strikes against militants in Pakistan.
Those raids were in retaliation for a militant attack on Indian troops in Indian-administered Kashmir.
Tensions have been high since the 14 February suicide attack on an Indian paramilitary police convoy, which killed at least 40 soldiers.
Also on Wednesday, Pakistan's foreign ministry said Pakistani jets had launched air strikes across the line of control dividing Pakistani- and Indian-controlled Kashmir.
Pakistan said it had "taken strikes at [a] non-military target, avoiding human loss and collateral damage".
Indian authorities said the Pakistani jets had been pushed back.
Both India and Pakistan claim all of Muslim-majority Kashmir, but control only parts of it. The two countries have fought three wars and a limited conflict since independence from Britain in 1947 - and all but one were over Kashmir.
Really, I expect better from the BBC.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47382949
QuoteIndia and Pakistan in 'unchartered waters'
"We are in unchartered waters," says Husain Haqqani, alluding to the latest round of heightened hostilities between India and Pakistan.
Maybe that's what Husain Haqqani said?
So out of curiosity is there anything of value in Kashmir? Besides the sentimental value of proving you have the bigger dick, obviously.
It's got some nice goats
Quote from: Tamas on February 27, 2019, 05:09:17 AM
So out of curiosity is there anything of value in Kashmir? Besides the sentimental value of proving you have the bigger dick, obviously.
It's nice and all but kinda drags on.
Pretty cool LZ song.
Quote from: The Brain on February 27, 2019, 05:31:09 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 27, 2019, 05:09:17 AM
So out of curiosity is there anything of value in Kashmir? Besides the sentimental value of proving you have the bigger dick, obviously.
It's nice and all but kinda drags on.
:D
This looks really bad
Pakistan are claiming they carried out demonstration air strikes on Indian territory in Kashmir, just before this or these aircraft were shot down.
They said there were six targets, but that they choose to hit 'open ground' * instead, so not unlike the earlier Indian retaliation that killed '300 terrorits' or a few trees.
Hard to know what's true given the barefaced lies/propaganda both sides are conducting.
* I'd guess this was an attempt at a carefully calibrated response to the earlier Indian token strikes on the forest target. Of course that's all gone out of the window, now that planes have been shot down, possibly by both sides.
Didn't India use Mig-21s for this? I mean, that surely was meant as a clear message of "stand clear we don't actually mean this".
Probably piloted by some dudes they weren't really happy with.
Quote from: derspiess on February 27, 2019, 11:39:44 AM
Probably piloted by some dudes they weren't really happy with.
Performance reviews matter.
And office politics.
If both sides had each shot down one aircraft I can see that as a draw and de-escalation could happen.
But I think the videos from the conflict zone shows something different, there's the captured Indian pilot and stills of his Mig21 crash site in Pakistan, the video footage from Indian of the plane downed looks like another Mig21 with apparently a dead pilot's body. So I'm guessing it's the 2nd plane the Pakistanis claimed to have shot down.
If so that means India are so to speak 0-2, and I suggest they'll want to avenge his 'humiliation' with more air strikes or maybe a further qualitative or quantitative escalation?
Apparently there's a lot of ongoing small arms fire across the Line of Control, but hard to gauge it's significance, anyone heard reports of cross border shelling?
edit:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir/india-pakistan-claim-to-down-each-others-jets-as-kashmir-conflict-heats-up-idUSKCN1QG0IR?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir/india-pakistan-claim-to-down-each-others-jets-as-kashmir-conflict-heats-up-idUSKCN1QG0IR?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29)
This Reuters item provides some clarity to what has happened regarding the aircraft, apparently the widely circulated video of the Indian crash site is that of a crashed Mil-17 helicopter, which explains the large wheel struts pictured. Not know if this was an accident or somehow related to the fighting.
But more worryingly it confirms both sides are using artillery fire across the LOC, and exchanges of small arms fire is happening in multiple locations.
This is interesting because it's the first real major international crisis since Trump became President. Typically it's the US who mediates and keeps this bullshit from getting out of hand. There is a real question if Trump wants head off military conflict or even can. The State Department has suffer quite a bit in the last two years and has been purposefully been neglected for some reason. The only other powers that could mediate the conflict are Russia and China. China also claims parts of Kashmir so they aren't exactly a disinterested party. Putin would love to be seen as the peacemaker in South Asia.
Still, a cease fire would be good even if it give Putin enormous prestige and political capital.
We have top men working on it right now.
Modi will want to keep the crisis atmosphere running for several more weeks, so he can rack up a big election win on the back of inflamed nationalism.
Well, according to media in India one of those MiG-21 downed a F-16...
India's media has been war crazy.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/01/indias-media-is-war-crazy/
Not good. I feel like Modi is going to feel politically forced to do something. If he deescalated as is sensible, he'd be politically crushed since giving in at this point will be painted as a loss.
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1101713237597409281
Quote from: APOfficials say two siblings and their mother have been killed in cross-border shelling between Indian and Pakistani soldiers in disputed Kashmir.
I hope both sides remember that the words of their enemy are backed by nuclear weapons. I mean we are all trying to find a solution to global warming but that would be a bit of an extreme way to go.
Quote from: Valmy on March 05, 2019, 12:51:30 PM
I hope both sides remember that the words of their enemy are backed by nuclear weapons. I mean we are all trying to find a solution to global warming but that would be a bit of an extreme way to go.
On the plus side they're some of the crappiest nuclear arsenals on the planet.
Indian defense minister saying that they may no longer adhere to a "no first use policy".
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/south-asia/article/3023192/indias-no-first-use-nuclear-weapons-policy-may-change-future
It is truly amazing how cunty India has been lately.
Yup. Modi pissed away an easy hand.