Author Topic: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux  (Read 614787 times)

viper37

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14085 on: March 04, 2020, 02:41:58 pm »
They were sold the general public as government-sponsored education. The ostensible purpose was both education and assimilation.

Eventually, knowledge of the abuses perpetuated in these schools leaked out, discrediting them. The abuses showed up in both religious and non-religious boarding schools. Similar abuses were revealed in boarding school-type institutions that were not used for this program: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Cashel_Orphanage

In addition, the notion of using isolation from family and forced education  to assimilate people, whether the schools were otherwise abusive of not, came to be seen as morally wrong. 

Residential schools were pretty much all closed by the 70s.  As you say it was now seen as wrong to try and assimilate first nations people (though that was government policy up until the 60s).

News of the abuses only came out much later, starting in the 80s but really got going in the 90s.
Some indian children were "kidnapped" and sent to white families in as late as the 80s.  Basically, the mother would go to the hospital to deliver the baby, then the nurses would tell her the kid was dead, and he would be sent into adoption, in Canada or elsewhere in the world.
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crazy canuck

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14086 on: March 24, 2020, 04:28:38 pm »
I hope the Conservatives understand how much businesses need the spending contained in the bill they are holding up on principle. 

Barrister

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14087 on: March 24, 2020, 04:31:36 pm »
I hope the Conservatives understand how much businesses need the spending contained in the bill they are holding up on principle.

I think they're rightly concerned about handing the government a literal blank cheque to spend any amount of money, all without any oversight from Parliament (plus in a minority government).  I'm pretty confident something will be worked out.

crazy canuck

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14088 on: March 24, 2020, 06:54:47 pm »
The Liberals removed Clause 2, which was the problematic clause last night.  Now the Cons look like they are just playing games because they have said that they are not opposed to what is being proposed other than this one technicality. There are literally 100s of thousands of people who will suffer because this got delayed one day.  They are in some pretty dangerous waters right now.

Barrister

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14089 on: March 26, 2020, 11:24:22 pm »
Conservatives delay leadership race.

Razgovory

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14090 on: March 27, 2020, 12:20:43 am »
I believe people have the right to protect their core identity.  Our identity is our culture, based on our language.  Canada was founded on the principle of two founding nations, one French, one English.  Indians and Metis didn't really count for anyone at the time, it's sad, but there's not much I can do to change that.  I sure want to find a way to really integrate them into our society and at the same time let time preserve aspects of their culture, but it's not up to me and the question is way too complex to be solved in a few years.

Quebec is doing good so far, but we have only 12 nations on our territory.  Mohawks are as problematic as ever, but others are respected and the provincial government negotiates in good faith, ever since the first James Bay damn.  Lot more progress has been made over the years, but there's only so much the Constitution allows a province to do.  Still, a lot more needs to be done, but we can't solve every crisis in the country in 2 years after so many years of neglect by the Liberal party.


I believe that people have a right to hold to their identity as well!  The way we differ is that I see this as an individual right and you see this as a collective right.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

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viper37

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14091 on: March 27, 2020, 02:28:17 am »
I believe that people have a right to hold to their identity as well!  The way we differ is that I see this as an individual right and you see this as a collective right.
Since we are part of community, that is meaningless.  People have a right to practice religion and speak the language they want at home, as any individual would do.  The State has no obligation to accomodate every single language and religion of the Earth has a collectivity.  The non members of a specific group should not be forced to adapt to other's customs, or refrain from exercising their regular activities because an individual is upset about it as it is forbidden by his indivudal culture.

If individual rights triumph, than a devout muslim is justified of forbidding alcohol to be served in the same establishment he attends, since that would conflict with his individual right.  And since collective rights are non-existent for you, than he would be in his right.
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garbon

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14092 on: March 27, 2020, 02:31:07 am »
If individual rights triumph, than a devout muslim is justified of forbidding alcohol to be served in the same establishment he attends, since that would conflict with his individual right.  And since collective rights are non-existent for you, than he would be in his right.

:huh:

A Muslim (just as anyone else) should have the right to not drink alcohol and if s/he ran a shop have the right not to sell alcohol (which I think it often the default given generally you have to apply for a liquor license).  I'm struggling to see how or why a right not to have alcohol consumed in their presence would exist as a right.
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Razgovory

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14093 on: March 27, 2020, 02:42:48 am »
I believe that people have a right to hold to their identity as well!  The way we differ is that I see this as an individual right and you see this as a collective right.
Since we are part of community, that is meaningless.  People have a right to practice religion and speak the language they want at home, as any individual would do.  The State has no obligation to accomodate every single language and religion of the Earth has a collectivity.  The non members of a specific group should not be forced to adapt to other's customs, or refrain from exercising their regular activities because an individual is upset about it as it is forbidden by his indivudal culture.

If individual rights triumph, than a devout muslim is justified of forbidding alcohol to be served in the same establishment he attends, since that would conflict with his individual right.  And since collective rights are non-existent for you, than he would be in his right.

That doesn't make sense.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

"I love how Raz just becomes the caricature for exactly what he is claiming doesn't actually exist...and he doesn't even know it! He is 100% oblivious to the irony of his own statements." - Berkut telling a lie.

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Oexmelin

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14094 on: March 27, 2020, 03:08:50 am »
Vip is referencing a case that made some noise a few months ago (?) in Montreal, where a large group of devout muslims in a restaurant demanded to the restaurant owner that he refrain from serving alcohol to the other patrons.
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garbon

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14095 on: March 27, 2020, 03:23:51 am »
I can't quickly find anything in English that speaks in a neutral way but if this is what a biased take is saying, seems no rights were infringed. Down to how the owner of the restaurant chose to handle the situation.

https://rairfoundation.com/canadian-restaurant-imposes-sharia-on-non-muslim-patrons-at-the-request-of-radicals/

Quote
In Quebec it is common for restaurants that do not have a liquor licence, to allow patrons to bring their own wine to be decanted by the staff. In this case, the patrons, who were regulars of the establishment, had made special arrangements beforehand to make sure all was well for a party they had planned.

After the first course of the meal was served, the “moderate muslim” restaurants owner informed the party that all glasses and bottles with wine would have to be removed from the room so they could accommodate a group of “religious” muslims. The more observant muslims were scheduled to come in to another part of the restaurant and they would not tolerate any alcohol in the premises.
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Oexmelin

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14096 on: March 27, 2020, 03:37:21 am »
No rights were infringed. But that shows the limits of circumscribing these discussions to rights.
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garbon

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14097 on: March 27, 2020, 03:53:44 am »
No rights were infringed. But that shows the limits of circumscribing these discussions to rights.

I don't see how. Don't go to restaurants that double deal with you.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

PRC

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14098 on: March 27, 2020, 10:05:09 am »
It just came out that on Saturday evening Alberta Health Minister Tyler Shandro brought his wife along to the house of a doctor who posted a Facebook meme about Shandro.  Shandro then berated that doctor demanding he delete the post.   

Shandro and his wife own a private health insurance business.  Because he is the Health Minister, and his government has made cuts to certain health services, his business is setup to prosper from those cuts.  That's what the meme the doctor posted was all about.


crazy canuck

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Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux
« Reply #14099 on: March 27, 2020, 10:47:06 am »
Conservative Ideologues won’t see anything wrong with that.