Author Topic: [Canada] Canadian Politics Redux  (Read 350462 times)

crazy canuck

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2011, 03:26:27 pm »
To be fair to Layton though, if he supported this budget, he would be seen as selling out.

I have no idea why that would be.  He got a lot of what he asked for.  Now his simply looks like a little kid who wants to take his ball away so nobody else can play simply because he didnt get everything he asked for.  That is not principled that is foolish.
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viper37

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2011, 03:31:01 pm »
Sinn Féin, the Scottish National Party, Plaid Cymru, Bloc Québécois

What is it with all these nutty socialist nationalist parties?
linguistic minorities badly treated by the central power?
I believe your country just passed in effect a law making english the official language of the United States, or at the least, it's a proposition by the GOP.

Clearly, some people feel they are threatened in their cultural identity.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 03:33:10 pm by viper37 »
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Valmy

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2011, 03:40:22 pm »
linguistic minorities badly treated by the central power?
I believe your country just passed in effect a law making english the official language of the United States, or at the least, it's a proposition by the GOP.

Clearly, some people feel they are threatened in their cultural identity.

Um my question is why are they socialist not whether or not you various lettowists feel victimized.
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Savonarola

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2011, 04:04:47 pm »
Um my question is why are they socialist not whether or not you various lettowists feel victimized.

I suspect that it increases the party's base of support by appealing to both the people who feel that their cultural identity is threatened and those who feel that their economic situation is sub-par due to the dominance of the more dominant culture or economy. 

Also nationalistic socialism has had great political success in other countries, so why not try it in Canada?
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Malthus

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2011, 04:07:47 pm »
linguistic minorities badly treated by the central power?
I believe your country just passed in effect a law making english the official language of the United States, or at the least, it's a proposition by the GOP.

Clearly, some people feel they are threatened in their cultural identity.

Um my question is why are they socialist not whether or not you various lettowists feel victimized.

Where people who belong to "seperatist" ethnic minorities feel threatened, it is usually because those people feel that the ethnic community is threatened as a community, not because they as individuals feel threatened. Often, there response is to enact legislation which "protects" the ethnic community, but at the expense of individual rights (like the Quebec Language Law). Thus, a political organization that places the focus on the community, not the individual, makes sense.

Josephus

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2011, 04:41:55 pm »
To be fair to Layton though, if he supported this budget, he would be seen as selling out.

I have no idea why that would be.  He got a lot of what he asked for. 

Really?

He wanted an increase in the GIS worth $700 million. He got a rather watered down version of that.

He wanted doubling of the CPP benefit.
He got nothing.

He wanted ending the federal sales tax on home heating fuels and restoring the home energy retrofit tax incentive, he got only the latter.

He wanted to see money spent on training and hiring 1200 new doctors and 6,000 nurses. He got none of that, just $9 million against student debt for physicians and nurses who practise in remote communites. Not the same thing.

Plus, of course, there was stuff in the budget that was not part of the NDP agenda, as you would expect.

So, I think you need to redefine what you mean by "a lot."

Again, i find myself defending him. That's not necessarily my motive. I'm saying as the leader of the NDP, a somewhat left-of-centre party that in most instances would automatically vote against a Conservative budget, the Cons gave him nothing that would make him switch sides and support the government. Just bones.
He asked for those things and only got a small chunk of it.

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Neil

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2011, 04:51:48 pm »
Sinn Féin, the Scottish National Party, Plaid Cymru, Bloc Québécois

What is it with all these nutty socialist nationalist parties?
Several reasons.  One is that their supporters have banded together to resist the 'outsiders' and so have a more communal outlook.  Also, all of those groups represent societies that have evolved a tendency towards leeching money out of more successful peoples, and thus they don't have to pay for their social programs.
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Jacob

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2011, 05:10:00 pm »
On two political points and one superficial one, Harper earns my opposition.

Superficially, the stupid "Iggy went to the US for a while and he doesn't care about YOU" advertisements that the Conservatives have been running all over the place on TV (like during the superbowl) are just obnoxious.

Politically, I keep picking up little bits of more radical right Conservatism when it comes to women's rights etc; they've made abortion an issue with foreign aid and there's been other bits like that. That makes me quite suspicious of their hidden agenda; I don't want any evangelical flavoured social conservatism, thank you very much. That's just a suspicion, though, and something to be weighed with all the other things.

However, the Harper government's "streamlining immigration" has seriously and directly harmed my family. My recent rightward drift towards small c conservatism/ pragmatic business oriented small l liberalism hasn't really stopped - I got a house, I'm getting older and crankier - but because of this I can basically never ever support the Conservative Party of Canada. I'll probably start donating money to the various opposition parties.

The NDP? I'm not fond of the granola fringe at all, but fine. The Liberals? Sure why not. The BQ? Yeah, I don't mind. The Green Party? We'll I'm sure they'd be crazy, but fine. A coalition? Be my guest. As long as Harper gets the boot, I'll be content.

Sadly, from this thread it doesn't sound likely.
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citizen k

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2011, 05:17:58 pm »
No party anywhere gets it completely right.

Josephus

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2011, 05:21:10 pm »
No party anywhere gets it completely right.

The Josephus Party of Canada will.
"Every gun that's made; every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies a THEFT from those who hunger and are not fed and those who are cold and are not clothed.”....Dwight Eisenhower

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

Neil

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2011, 05:29:23 pm »
However, the Harper government's "streamlining immigration" has seriously and directly harmed my family.
The spy part of your family or the island thief part of your family?
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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2011, 05:33:15 pm »
The spy part of your family or the island thief part of your family?

My part of the family.
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Neil

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2011, 06:05:30 pm »
The spy part of your family or the island thief part of your family?

My part of the family.
Well, stop stealing islands then.
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Jacob

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2011, 06:17:23 pm »
Well, stop stealing islands then.

What I meant by that was not "the Danish part of the family" but "it's my family, which part isn't relevant."
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Jacob

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Re: [Canada] Election Redux
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2011, 06:18:21 pm »
Anyhow, it looks like the no-confidence vote is going to happen by Friday: http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2011/3/23/4778357.html
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 06:56:14 pm by Jacob »
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