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[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

Started by Josephus, March 22, 2011, 09:27:34 PM

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PRC

Beeb will have to be the true voice on how Notleys position is playing out in his circle, but I think she is getting a grudging respect for her fight in this... but still they will say fuck her anyways.  For me I'll vote NDP in the next provincial election.

Barrister

Quote from: PRC on February 07, 2018, 01:29:16 AM
Beeb will have to be the true voice on how Notleys position is playing out in his circle, but I think she is getting a grudging respect for her fight in this... but still they will say fuck her anyways.  For me I'll vote NDP in the next provincial election.

Yeah, it's too little, too late.

More to say, but I'll leave it to tomorrow.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Jacob

#10907
Quote from: PRC on February 07, 2018, 01:29:16 AM
Beeb will have to be the true voice on how Notleys position is playing out in his circle, but I think she is getting a grudging respect for her fight in this... but still they will say fuck her anyways.  For me I'll vote NDP in the next provincial election.

I don't expect there's anything Notley can do to win Beeb's approval.

Barrister

Quote from: Jacob on February 07, 2018, 02:09:31 AM
Quote from: PRC on February 07, 2018, 01:29:16 AM
Beeb will have to be the true voice on how Notleys position is playing out in his circle, but I think she is getting a grudging respect for her fight in this... but still they will say fuck her anyways.  For me I'll vote NDP in the next provincial election.

I don't expect there's anything Notley can do to win Beeb's approval.

I'd never say nothing.

But it'd be highly unlikely.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Monoriu

I always support oil pipelines. 

Grey Fox

So the Albertans are pulling the same BS on BC that they pulled, along with Saskatchewan on Quebec.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Jacob

It turns out that Alberta is the largest consumer of BC wine outside of BC, so that is going to hurt the wine industry a fair bit: https://globalnews.ca/news/4010484/bc-wine-exports-alberta/

My own immediate reaction on learning that is "fuck you Alberta" and wondering what we can do to hurt Alberta back. Not, of course, the most constructive reaction and probably one I'll walk away from after a bit of processing time... but I expect I'll end up more supportive of pipeline opposition, not less.

Valmy

I take it Ottawa does not have the exclusive right to regulate inter-province commerce.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

Quote from: Valmy on February 07, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
I take it Ottawa does not have the exclusive right to regulate inter-province commerce.

That's the fucking stupid part - of course they do.  They also have the exclusive right to regulate pipelines.

And yes - refusing to buy BC wines is just stupid - it's provoking a trade war.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Jacob

#10914
Quote from: Barrister on February 07, 2018, 07:47:12 PM
That's the fucking stupid part - of course they do.  They also have the exclusive right to regulate pipelines.

And yes - refusing to buy BC wines is just stupid - it's provoking a trade war.

I read a fun piece in the National Post speculating on how to hurt BC by shutting down the existing flow of oil from Alberta. The seemingly regretful conclusion was that it'd hurt Alberta more than BC, but it ended on the optimistic note that Alberta could still damage BC's economy somewhat (by raising gas prices at the pump by a few cents) by changing what was transported in the existing pipeline: http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/could-alberta-bring-b-c-to-its-knees-by-shutting-off-the-oil

Conversely, I've been seeing the idea of boycotting Alberta beef being circulated as a retaliatory measure for the wine thing.

I don't see this kind of thing helping things much except burnish some populist credentials here and there.

Jacob

Quote from: Barrister on February 07, 2018, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 07, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
I take it Ottawa does not have the exclusive right to regulate inter-province commerce.

That's the fucking stupid part - of course they do.  They also have the exclusive right to regulate pipelines.

And yes - refusing to buy BC wines is just stupid - it's provoking a trade war.

I'm pretty sure Ottawa does not have the exclusive right to regulate inter-province commerce - otherwise the deal they brokered between the provinces in 2017 would've been meaningless, for example. I'm also pretty sure the constitution says it's solely a provincial power to regulate the sales and distribution of alcohol.

I also expect that the Province has a number of perfectly valid options for putting spokes in the wheel for the pipeline, which is why I think it's best to attempt to address BC's concerns with some degree of good faith rather than just try to force it through.

... but we'll see.

crazy canuck

#10916
Jacob,

BC is not taking the position it has jurisdiction to regulate intraprovincial pipelines.  That is clearly within  Federal jurisdiction as the recent Burnaby city litigation has clarified. Instead the province has a more nuanced legal argument that it is within provincial jurisdiction to deal with some related environmental issues. That position may not find favour in the courts but it  is at least a more nuanced position then the one being debated in this thread.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Barrister on February 07, 2018, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 07, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
I take it Ottawa does not have the exclusive right to regulate inter-province commerce.

And yes - refusing to buy BC wines is just stupid - it's provoking a trade war.

No, there won't be a trade war.  The BC government has rightly identified that is in nobody's interest.

http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/b-c-premier-john-horgan-refuses-to-retaliate-on-alberta-wine-ban


Barrister

Quote from: Jacob on February 07, 2018, 08:40:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 07, 2018, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 07, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
I take it Ottawa does not have the exclusive right to regulate inter-province commerce.

That's the fucking stupid part - of course they do.  They also have the exclusive right to regulate pipelines.

And yes - refusing to buy BC wines is just stupid - it's provoking a trade war.

I'm pretty sure Ottawa does not have the exclusive right to regulate inter-province commerce - otherwise the deal they brokered between the provinces in 2017 would've been meaningless, for example. I'm also pretty sure the constitution says it's solely a provincial power to regulate the sales and distribution of alcohol.

I also expect that the Province has a number of perfectly valid options for putting spokes in the wheel for the pipeline, which is why I think it's best to attempt to address BC's concerns with some degree of good faith rather than just try to force it through.

... but we'll see.

As a general rule the Feds regulate inter-provincial issues (in particular pipelines!).  Alberta could not, for example, impose import duties on goods coming from BC.  But yes, there are any number of ways that provinces can "put spokes in the wheel", like the wine thing.  There it's because all alcohol in Alberta may be sold in private stores, but must be purchased from a government-run distributor.  And Alberta just ordered the distributor not to purchase BC wine.

Really this is just petty politics all around.  The BC government knows it can't ban pipelines, but its good politics to help keep Green Party support.  For Alberta, Notley is frustrated because her whole strategy that a carbon tax would build "social license" for the oil industry has been demonstrated not to work, and with it her re-election chances continue to diminish.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

PRC

Quote from: crazy canuck on February 07, 2018, 11:37:22 PM
Jacob,

BC is not taking the position it has jurisdiction to regulate intraprovincial pipelines.  That is clearly within  Federal jurisdiction as the recent Burnaby city litigation has clarified. Instead the province has a more nuanced legal argument that it is within provincial jurisdiction to deal with some related environmental issues. That position may not find favour in the courts but it  is at least a more nuanced position then the one being debated in this thread.

The environmental concern over the coast is a heartfelt one for those so close to it, myself included having grown up with it... but this too is a federal concern ultimately, no?  Coastal issues, inclusive of the environment, are ultimately the concern of the government of Canada notwithstanding the moral claim of those who live upon it?