Crusader Kings 2 Redux

[Solmyr]

They are preparing to be: Ottoman Empire.

[Grinning_Colossus]

What the hell is up with the latest patch? I have tons of vassal kings and dukes converting to Sunni islam all of a sudden.

They're afraid that your support for the Byzantine Empire has doomed them all. :p

[garbon]

I would guess they are secretly sunni and then there are enough that they declare it openly.

If they were descended from Sunni lords that I conquered and foolishly kept in power that would make sense, but they're not. They're Greek lords from a long line of Orthodox Greek lords. I could see them being secret iconoclasts or whatever, but secret Sunnis just does not make sense.

Perhaps they were orientalized by your conquests in the middle east?

[jimmy olsen]

I would guess they are secretly sunni and then there are enough that they declare it openly.

If they were descended from Sunni lords that I conquered and foolishly kept in power that would make sense, but they're not. They're Greek lords from a long line of Orthodox Greek lords. I could see them being secret iconoclasts or whatever, but secret Sunnis just does not make sense.

Perhaps they were orientalized by your conquests in the middle east?

Lol.

Almost all of the lords in the middle east stayed loyal. It was the European ones that betrayed me.

Seriously this mechanic needs to be nerfed. Characters should be limited to practicing secret religions from their religious group,  unless they are choosing to continue their original religion after being forced to convert by their leige or by holy war.

[jimmy olsen]

Started a new game with cult religions turned off, but I don't think it worked since some one left a Lollard bible on my bed.

Anyways, things are going shockingly well. I started as the Anglo-Saxon Duke of York & Northumberland the day after the conquest. Me and my brother the Duke of Lancaster & Warwick are the only Anglo-Saxon lords left.

William the conqueror immediately dejure warred Scotland for Cumberland, a county of Northumberland. While he did that I subjugated the county of Lincoln, forcing him to acknowledge me as liege lord. Then a vassal of mine in Northumberland inherited the county just north of Cumberland. After rebuilding my forces, I subjugated Cumberland. Things were going well and I had a good marriage with a Danish princess. I then caught consumption and died, and since I had no children, my brother inherited my titles giving him control over all of northern England.

He was on his second marriage of the game, a very thematically appropriate daughter of the late King Harold. You think that King William would be worried about this, but he was busy fighting the King of France for Vexin, then he caught some disease and died. I've since subjugated two of my dejure vassals in the duchy of Warwick and have two left. Once I've subjugated them I'll likely have close to half the levies in the realm sworn to me. Depending on the stability of the realm, I'll save money and prepare for an immediate rebellion, or if I think that's too risky I'll go all tyrant and start revoking all my Norman vassals and replacing them with loyal Anglo-Saxons.

EDIT: This was prior to my subjugation of Leicester.

[jimmy olsen]

Jinxed myself. After subjugating Warwick and Worcester I caught camp fever and died, leaving the Duchy to a sickly infant. I fought and won two civil wars as a minor, but I couldn't revoke titles because of the laws and council. I also subjugated Hereford.

Once I became an adult I rebelled and won my independence. I really think someone who does so against a liege with a different culture should get the Liberator title. Anyways, after the independence war there was yet another civil war and in the aftermath I managed to bribe the council, change the law, and revoke all but one of my Norman vassals, giving their lands to Anglo-Saxons.

I think I need one more county to usurp the Kingdom though. I have married a quick daughter of the King of France and allied with him.

The Duke and the War

[jimmy olsen]

Conquered Northampton, which kicked off a civil war in England. Was waiting for that to end so I could usurp the crown. However, Hereford was inherited by a French count, leaving me one county short. So I entered the Civil war in favor of my own claim and won. I gave the Duke of Normandy and the Count of Maine independence in order to hamstring any attempted uprising by the Normans and it's pretty much worked. Unfortunately, despite evicting the Normans from the north within 30 years of the conquest, and from the south in just 62, several counties have converted to a despicable melange of Norman and Anglo-Saxon culture. I will have to work hard to convert them back to the light.

[Josquius]

For CK3 I do hope they divorce titles a character holds from country he is part of.
Would be great to see the real world situation represented where a man can be both a French count and an English Duke.

[garbon]

While that's often said, I'm not sure I understand how that would work as game play.

[Josquius]

It would be a big change it's true.
The trouble with ck as it stands is it trying to model a time before nation states where people regarded the world in a very different way.... Yet it's core interface is a "paint the world your nations colour" map.
I think paradox needs to step outside its comfort zone a bit. Try and get something that works where people are spending a significant amount of time away from the map too.
Maybe some sort of interesting court(s)/politics screen?

Certainly it is possible thinking about the real world and HR technology to map someone's direct report and dotted line reports.
Considering wars should be based on considering this and which family you want to go to war to (not which province) and their relations.

Really going outside the box here and making something interesting is the key concern. Maps are wonderful after all.

To go even more into that would never work blue sky thinking... Some sort of dynamic version of dune

[garbon]

I guess the one major concern I have with it - can you ever rest a province away from a king? Also with the various starting points that they have, is it from a certain particular time that we start counting a kingdom's boundaries like France as inviolable with other kings owing homage for particular lands within the first king's kingdom? What exactly would be the effects gameplay-wise (I guess some sort of taxation/levies calculated only on those parts including in the other kingdom)?

[jimmy olsen]

Really getting annoyed at Counties flipping to English culture despite the fact that Norman Kings have been over thrown. 

[jimmy olsen]

I guess the one major concern I have with it - can you ever rest a province away from a king? Also with the various starting points that they have, is it from a certain particular time that we start counting a kingdom's boundaries like France as inviolable with other kings owing homage for particular lands within the first king's kingdom? What exactly would be the effects gameplay-wise (I guess some sort of taxation/levies calculated only on those parts including in the other kingdom)?

Isn't that what you're doing in CK2 if you hold a full duchy for a hundred years.

[Josquius]

I'd think for counties changing duchy and duchies changing country it would need to be made along rational lines. Bordering lands only.

Though Normandy presents a problem.
Some sort of maths that calculate the relative strength and prestige of kingdoms over the areas?

It should require an active effort from the owner either way. Perhaps even a war goal in itself.
Or a total historic war % counter needing to swing x amount?

[Josquius]

Thinking about other improvements that would be nice it would be good to see primacy and immediacy represented too.
Counts can grow powerful enough that they can not gain freedom from their Duke and report directly to the King.
Perhaps even allow barons to squabble amongst each other for dominance of counties.
Though this is going into the broader issue in all paradox games of making small countries work and be fun.
Again disengaging from the big map would work.