Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

Dani Marzouca statements are pretty inline with the all the pro-pal organizations in the US.  It's not that "Gee, the Israelis are a little to hard on the Palestinians" it is that Israel must cease to exist.

Yeah, it would be amusing if it wasn't so tragic that you can take pro-Palestinian positions, reverse the words "Israel" and "Palestine" and not be able to distinguish them from the pro-Israel positions.  It seems people love to tacitly support genocide.

Both sides!

[Barrister]

As an aside, I hear an analyst on NPR yesterday note that it cost Israel an estimated $1 billion to defeat the Iranian attack, and it cost Iran an estimated $30 million to mount it.

I... I would question those sums.

[grumbler]

As an aside, I hear an analyst on NPR yesterday note that it cost Israel an estimated $1 billion to defeat the Iranian attack, and it cost Iran an estimated $30 million to mount it.

I... I would question those sums.

Feel free.  Keep in mind that Anti-ABM missiles cost in the neighborhood of $3-4 million each.

[Admiral Yi]

People in glass houses....

I think that's Otto's point.  Anyone who makes a public statement opens themselves to judgement.

[Josquius]

People in glass houses....

I think that's Otto's point.  Anyone who makes a public statement opens themselves to judgement.

And mine is he has said far worse.

As said to me it depends on the extent of your shit whether it's justified.
When you hear of cases where someone fucks up and one off makes a joke which gets them jumped on then that's just not cool.

When someone makes a habit of saying really extreme stuff, particularly when targeting others, and despite several warnings persist... Then actions have consequences comes into play.

[Barrister]

As an aside, I hear an analyst on NPR yesterday note that it cost Israel an estimated $1 billion to defeat the Iranian attack, and it cost Iran an estimated $30 million to mount it.

I... I would question those sums.

Feel free.  Keep in mind that Anti-ABM missiles cost in the neighborhood of $3-4 million each.

The idea that Israel's anti missile system costs more than Iran's missiles?  Sure.

But by 30x as much?

Doesn't sound right to me.  There's lots of ways to inflate the Israeli costs - perhaps by including development costs.

But like I said - I would question it, but I don't know.

[OttoVonBismarck]

As an aside, I hear an analyst on NPR yesterday note that it cost Israel an estimated $1 billion to defeat the Iranian attack, and it cost Iran an estimated $30 million to mount it.

That isn't quite accurate, most reporting seems to suggest the lion's share of the Iranian attack just fell apart in the sky, so w/e Israel spent (and I don't necessarily believe the reporting for various reasons), would have only been used to defeat a small portion of the attack that didn't fall apart in transit.

[PJL]

As an aside, I hear an analyst on NPR yesterday note that it cost Israel an estimated $1 billion to defeat the Iranian attack, and it cost Iran an estimated $30 million to mount it.

That isn't quite accurate, most reporting seems to suggest the lion's share of the Iranian attack just fell apart in the sky, so w/e Israel spent (and I don't necessarily believe the reporting for various reasons), would have only been used to defeat a small portion of the attack that didn't fall apart in transit.

That sounds worse if it's implied that the $30 million was the whole lot but only a minority's worth (say $10 million's worth) actually got through to be shot down. In which case it's more like 100 to 1.

[Josquius]

As an aside, I hear an analyst on NPR yesterday note that it cost Israel an estimated $1 billion to defeat the Iranian attack, and it cost Iran an estimated $30 million to mount it.

I... I would question those sums.

Feel free.  Keep in mind that Anti-ABM missiles cost in the neighborhood of $3-4 million each.

The idea that Israel's anti missile system costs more than Iran's missiles?  Sure.

But by 30x as much?

Doesn't sound right to me.  There's lots of ways to inflate the Israeli costs - perhaps by including development costs.

But like I said - I would question it, but I don't know.

A lot of Irans attack was using super cheap drones. Iirc $20k each or so?
Israel and friends hit them with patriots and the like. Vastly more expensive. Over a million a missile?

Iran also used some ballistic missiles which will cost a lot more. I recall reading this was a first time missiles were intercepted in space.
But I don't think they'd have shifted the dial too much on the massive $ gains of the drones.

Though on the topic it seems some good news is coming out of this with Israel shifting towards aid for Ukraine....

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-israel-said-to-authorize-sale-of-defensive-military-equipment-to-ukraine/

[grumbler]

It was more than just Israeli missiles, though. In fact, current reports indicate that, in fact, most of the attacking missiles and drones were shot down by US and UK fighters and USN destroyers. 

That said, I have no good way of estimating munitions used and cost, which is why I just quote what the experts say as reported by the press.

[PJL]

As an aside, I hear an analyst on NPR yesterday note that it cost Israel an estimated $1 billion to defeat the Iranian attack, and it cost Iran an estimated $30 million to mount it.

I... I would question those sums.

Feel free.  Keep in mind that Anti-ABM missiles cost in the neighborhood of $3-4 million each.

The idea that Israel's anti missile system costs more than Iran's missiles?  Sure.

But by 30x as much?

Doesn't sound right to me.  There's lots of ways to inflate the Israeli costs - perhaps by including development costs.

But like I said - I would question it, but I don't know.

A lot of Irans attack was using super cheap drones. Iirc $20k each or so?
Israel and friends hit them with patriots and the like. Vastly more expensive. Over a million a missile?

Iran also used some ballistic missiles which will cost a lot more. I recall reading this was a first time missiles were intercepted in space.
But I don't think they'd have shifted the dial too much on the massive $ gains of the drones.

Though on the topic it seems some good news is coming out of this with Israel shifting towards aid for Ukraine....

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-israel-said-to-authorize-sale-of-defensive-military-equipment-to-ukraine/

Perhaps if the stand-off re Ukrainian aid continues in Congress, maybe the US military aid to Israel could be re-packaged in such a way that Israel then could send some of it to Ukraine?

[Admiral Yi]

And mine is he has said far worse.

As said to me it depends on the extent of your shit whether it's justified.
When you hear of cases where someone fucks up and one off makes a joke which gets them jumped on then that's just not cool.

When someone makes a habit of saying really extreme stuff, particularly when targeting others, and despite several warnings persist... Then actions have consequences comes into play.

Worse than what?  I haven't caught him trying to peddle any conspiracy theories like that therapist chick.

I don't know what you're talking about with the one off joking stuff.  That doesn't describe anything that's been brought up here.

My position is simple: cancel whomever you want for whatever reason you want, but you don't get to bitch when the other side does the same thing.