Quo Vadis, Democrats?

[DGuller]

I find the outrage over Cuomo going independent for the general election to be a bit much.  I get the attitude when a vote split could bring a victory to GOP, but Sliwa's odds are currently between nil and zero. 

Whoever of the three other candidates wins will still be a Democrat, Cuomo is just giving voters another option.  I suspect that's really the problem here, that people thought Mamdani was already the mayor because he won the primary, but now Cuomo is trying to usurp the results of that election.

[Sheilbh]

I get what you mean on the party point.

But surely there were also people who objected to Cuomo's candidacy at any point? It seems to me that you could easily have an issue with Cuomo as a candidate, for very similar character reasons that you might oppose Trump holding any high office.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't know what Cuomo did that was inappropriate.

[Sheilbh]

For a starter:
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/26/cuomo-sexual-harassment-doj-00138140

I think it does reflect a strategic challenge for Democrats, which is that they come across as hypocritical in a lot of attack lines you might want to run on Trump and his administration.

It's tough to run a populist, anti-billionaire campaign when senior figures in the party are billionaires (or married to them) and have voted against banning Congressional stock trading (despite numerous examples of what looks suspect at best). It's tough to run on personal capacity when you spend until June of an election year arguing that not only has Joe Biden not lost a step, but that it's disgraceful to imply he has. Frankly, it's tough to go hard on Epstein when you chose to give Bill Clinton a slot at the DNC - and more generally it is challenging to go after all the men in Trump's administrations with allegations of sexual misconduct (it almost appears to be a minimum requirement) when senior figures like Clinton and Clyburn endorse someone like Cuomo.

I think here we all get there is a difference (and I think there is) between the Democrats and Trump, and would dismiss most of those arguments as whataboutery. But I don't think it's unreasonable for an average person who doesn't pay much attention to politics to come to the conclusion that the Democrats don't really mean any of it and they are all the same.

[Zoupa]

I don't know what Cuomo did that was inappropriate.

5 seconds of googling:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cuomo#Controversies

[Admiral Yi]

Zoupa, I meant in re harassment.

"The justice department found Cuomo "repeatedly subjected" women in his office to non-consensual sexual contact, ogling and gender-based nicknames. Top Cuomo staff "were aware of the conduct and retaliated against four of the women he harassed," the DOJ concluded."

From Shelf's link.

What is ogling?  What is a gender based nickname?  I have an idea what non censensual sexual contact is: grabbing ass, pussy or tits.  Rubbing your dick on someone.  Is that what Cuomo did?

[grumbler]

Cuomo id just following in the (successful) footsteps of Trump: "democracy is okay unless the election goes against me."

[Zoupa]

Zoupa, I meant in re harassment.

"The justice department found Cuomo "repeatedly subjected" women in his office to non-consensual sexual contact, ogling and gender-based nicknames. Top Cuomo staff "were aware of the conduct and retaliated against four of the women he harassed," the DOJ concluded."

From Shelf's link.

What is ogling?  What is a gender based nickname?  I have an idea what non censensual sexual contact is: grabbing ass, pussy or tits.  Rubbing your dick on someone.  Is that what Cuomo did?

From wiki:

Attorney General James's five-month investigation concluded with the release of a report on August 3, 2021.[11][299] This report concluded that during Cuomo's time in office, he sexually harassed 11 women: Boylan, Bennett, Ruch, Liss, Brittany Commisso, Kaitlin, McGrath, event attendee Virginia Limmiatis, an unnamed New York State trooper and two unnamed state entity employees.[300][287] The investigation concluded that Cuomo's behavior included unwanted groping, kissing and sexual comments, and also found that Cuomo's office had engaged in illegal retaliation against Boylan for her allegation against him.[301][302]

There's also several other scandals. They're in the link.

[Admiral Yi]

Yes.  I'm trying to understand what specific acts are considered sexual harassment by the DOJ.

[Zoupa]

"unwanted groping, kissing and sexual comments". I'm not sure why you need to know the exact details.

[Admiral Yi]

"unwanted groping, kissing and sexual comments". I'm not sure why you need to know the exact details.

So I can know what behavior to avoid.

[Sophie Scholl]

 

[Zoupa]

"unwanted groping, kissing and sexual comments". I'm not sure why you need to know the exact details.

So I can know what behavior to avoid.

The hint is in the "unwanted" part of the phrase.

[HVC]

Yi, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? You wouldn't know that unwanted groping and kissing of (multiple) employees is wrong unless Cuomo got in trouble for it first?

[Admiral Yi]

Yi, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? You wouldn't know that unwanted groping and kissing of (multiple) employees is wrong unless Cuomo got in trouble for it first?

Grope is a magic word that by definition is wrong.  I want to know what the line is between a grope and innocuous contact between a man and a woman.  Cuomo's defense at the time was that he came from a hugging culture.