Author Topic: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump  (Read 30607 times)

Sheilbh

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #750 on: January 15, 2020, 02:35:31 am »
I mean that guy is fundraising off this.
Let's bomb Russia!

DGuller

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #751 on: January 15, 2020, 06:41:04 am »
It's kind of fascinating to see how fast the rot spreads. It really doesn't take much, does it...
To be fair, the rot was there before Trump, it's just exposed and accelerated now.

Admiral Yi

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #752 on: January 15, 2020, 11:47:05 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvFWw0t2Qoo

Seven impeachment managers named.  Schiff is chair.

Nancy sounds like her brain is shutting down. :mellow:
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Razgovory

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #753 on: January 15, 2020, 12:56:29 pm »
What is strange is that I continue to be shocked by this.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

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Hamilcar

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #754 on: January 15, 2020, 02:37:45 pm »
Lev Parnas interview on Maddow tonight.  :hmm:

jimmy olsen

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #755 on: January 16, 2020, 01:14:24 am »
Holy moly

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/15/lev-parnas-ukraine-donald-trump-rudy-giuliani

Quote
Trump 'knew exactly what was going on' in Ukraine, says Giuliani associate
Lev Parnas tells MSNBC president was fully aware of his efforts to pressure Ukrainian officials to seek dirt on Biden

Donald Trump “knew exactly what was going on” in a scheme to pressure Ukrainian officials to investigate Joe Biden, according to an associate of the president’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani.

Lev Parnas, a businessman and GOP donor who was indicted for campaign finance violations, made the explosive allegations during an interview with MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow on Wednesday night.

When Parnas was in Ukraine, attempting to pressure Ukrainian officials to help dig up dirt on Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden, he was doing so on behalf of the president and Giuliani, he said, speaking with his lawyer at his side.

“I was on the ground doing their work,” Parnas said.

Parnas also said other members of the Trump administration knew about the Ukraine pressure campaign. William Barr, the attorney general, “was basically on the team”, Parnas said. And the former national security adviser John Bolton, who recently indicated he would testify in the Senate impeachment trial if he was subpoenaed, also “100%” knew about the scheme, Parnas said.

The extent of Trump’s involvement in an alleged scheme to pressure Ukrainian officials will be at the heart of the impeachment trial, which will begin next week. Trump has so far denied misconduct.

On Tuesday, House investigators released a trove of text messages, notes and other documents provided by lawyers for Parnas. The records include a letter that Giuliani sent requesting a private meeting with Volodymyr Zelensky, then Ukraine’s president-elect. The request was made with Trump’s “knowledge and consent”, Giuliani wrote.

House prosecutors are expected to present newly obtained evidence from Parnas over the course of the trial, which could unearth new evidence of misconduct by Trump.

On behalf of Giuliani, Parnas said he told a Ukrainian official that unless the administration announced an intention to investigate the Bidens, Mike Pence would not attend the Zelensky’s inauguration. The next day, “to my awareness”, said Parnas, Trump called to inform Ukrainian officials that Pence would cancel his trip to Ukraine.

Holding back military aid to Ukraine in order to turn up the pressure was something Trump “decided to do” after officials repeatedly resisted announcing investigations into the president’s political rival, Parnas said.

Trump has insisted that he didn’t know Parnas and Igor Fruman, another Giuliani associate, who was indicted along with Parnas for making illegal campaign donations. Photos posted by Parnas to Facebook show himself and Fruman with Trump and president’s oldest son, Donald Trump Jr.

“It’s possible I have a picture with them because I have a picture with everybody,” Trump said.

But the president “lied”, Parnas told Maddow. “Me and him didn’t watch football games together, we didn’t eat hot dogs. But he knew exactly who I was.”

Parnas also said he was with Giuliani when he was on the phone with the president. At times, Giuliani took the calls on speakerphone. Other times, the president was speaking so loudly that Parnas could overhear the dialogue even when the speaker function was turned off, he explained to Maddow.

“I want to get the truth out because I feel it’s important for the country,” Parnas said. “I think it’s important for the world to know what happened.”

Newly released text messages between Parnas and the Trump donor Robert Hyde also imply that Marie Yovanovitch, a widely respected US ambassador to Kyiv whom Trump ordered removed from her post in April, was being surveilled. In the messages, Hyde hinted he could arrange for Yovanovitch to be removed, for a price. In light of these revelations, former diplomats and congressional Democrats have asked for an investigation into whether Yovanovitch was indeed being monitored.

Parnas said he didn’t believe Hyde was being serious, or that the ambassador was ever in actual danger. Parnas had met Hyde at the Trump hotel in Washington: “He was a regular, at the bar,” he said, describing Hyde as a “weird individual”.
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Admiral Yi

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #756 on: January 16, 2020, 08:43:22 am »
Let down.
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Razgovory

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #757 on: January 16, 2020, 09:22:01 am »
Well I'll be damned.  Ukraine just opened its investigation.  Except it's not the Bidens.  It's whether these Trump cronies spied on a US ambassador.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

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Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #758 on: January 16, 2020, 10:29:47 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuXePRV_LW0

The GAO says the OMB broke the Federal Impoundment Act by withholding Ukraine aid.
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FunkMonk

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #759 on: January 16, 2020, 11:28:23 am »
The trial begins. 

Two of three presidential impeachments in American history have happened in our lifetimes. Three if we include Nixon, who resigned before inevitable impeachment. And a future Democratic president is almost assuredly going to get impeached should the Rs ever have a majority in the House again.

The long road of American democracy bends toward failure.
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Josephus

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #760 on: January 16, 2020, 11:46:09 am »
The trial begins. 

Two of three presidential impeachments in American history have happened in our lifetimes. Three if we include Nixon, who resigned before inevitable impeachment. And a future Democratic president is almost assuredly going to get impeached should the Rs ever have a majority in the House again.

The long road of American democracy bends toward failure.

yeah, it's gonna reach a point where "impeachment" will be a matter of course. The only unpredictablility will be how soon after inauguration will proceedings begin.

America is broken.
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The Minsky Moment

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #761 on: January 16, 2020, 11:59:13 am »
The impeachment case vs Clinton was a legitimate impeachment case.  He lied under oath in a federal proceeding.  Perjury in a federal case was one of the few defined federal crimes in the very first federal criminal statute, so it is reasonable to conclude that it would fit the definition of a high crime and misdemeanor.  The question in Clinton's case was whether the context of the perjury was such as to justify removal through impeachment.  I agree with the Senate judgment that removal was not warranted but it was not a illegitimate case to bring.

Obviously, I also believe the impeachment case vs. Trump is legit.

I don't see the bringing of these proceedings as evidence of democratic failure.
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Barrister

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #762 on: January 16, 2020, 12:10:22 pm »
The trial begins. 

Two of three presidential impeachments in American history have happened in our lifetimes. Three if we include Nixon, who resigned before inevitable impeachment. And a future Democratic president is almost assuredly going to get impeached should the Rs ever have a majority in the House again.

The long road of American democracy bends toward failure.

yeah, it's gonna reach a point where "impeachment" will be a matter of course. The only unpredictablility will be how soon after inauguration will proceedings begin.

America is broken.

I don't know why you would say that.  Bush 43 wasn't impeached despite how much certain democrats loathed him.  Obama wasn't impeached despite how much certain republicans loathed him.

The Clinton impeachment scared politicians from both parties off from impeachment - Clinton emerged even stronger after the impeachment.  Now in Trump we're seeing that despite overwhelming evidence of corruption and crimes, Trump is not suffering any political hit.

If Trump is acquitted on a more-or-less party line vote it's hard to see how any President would be successfully impeached ever.

Malthus

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #763 on: January 16, 2020, 01:04:22 pm »
The trial begins. 

Two of three presidential impeachments in American history have happened in our lifetimes. Three if we include Nixon, who resigned before inevitable impeachment. And a future Democratic president is almost assuredly going to get impeached should the Rs ever have a majority in the House again.

The long road of American democracy bends toward failure.

yeah, it's gonna reach a point where "impeachment" will be a matter of course. The only unpredictablility will be how soon after inauguration will proceedings begin.

America is broken.

I don't know why you would say that.  Bush 43 wasn't impeached despite how much certain democrats loathed him.  Obama wasn't impeached despite how much certain republicans loathed him.

The Clinton impeachment scared politicians from both parties off from impeachment - Clinton emerged even stronger after the impeachment.  Now in Trump we're seeing that despite overwhelming evidence of corruption and crimes, Trump is not suffering any political hit.

If Trump is acquitted on a more-or-less party line vote it's hard to see how any President would be successfully impeached ever.

I see the almost-inevitable failure of the Senate to convict in this case a very troubling milestone for American democracy. The message will be that the President is above any law as long as his party has a majority in the Senate, and that limits to his power are illusory.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

The Brain

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #764 on: January 16, 2020, 01:54:51 pm »
Holy moly

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/15/lev-parnas-ukraine-donald-trump-rudy-giuliani

Quote
Trump 'knew exactly what was going on' in Ukraine, says Giuliani associate
Lev Parnas tells MSNBC president was fully aware of his efforts to pressure Ukrainian officials to seek dirt on Biden

I call BS. Trump is never fully aware of anything.
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