Author Topic: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump  (Read 17126 times)

Valmy

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #600 on: December 03, 2019, 01:14:44 am »
Yeah that standard is absurdly high, and frankly I am not completely confident that even if the President did indeed state it explicitly that they would then support impeachment.
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Richard Hakluyt

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #601 on: December 03, 2019, 01:46:02 am »
I reckon the only way he will be found guilty is if electoral support starts to wither. The question is thus how many republican supporters are sufficiently disgusted with his behaviour to change their vote or not vote?

Malthus

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #602 on: December 03, 2019, 07:38:19 am »
Yeah that standard is absurdly high, and frankly I am not completely confident that even if the President did indeed state it explicitly that they would then support impeachment.

The ground would then shift to the alternative argument: everyone does it, so it's no big deal.
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The Minsky Moment

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #603 on: December 03, 2019, 10:18:34 am »
The House Minority Report is an astonishing document; it repeats anti-Ukraine talking points that are part of the Russian information warfare campaign.  The Republican House caucus has allowed itself to serve as an arm of a Russian intelligence operation.
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The Brain

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #604 on: December 03, 2019, 11:44:21 am »
The House Minority Report is an astonishing document; it repeats anti-Ukraine talking points that are part of the Russian information warfare campaign.  The Republican House caucus has allowed itself to serve as an arm of a Russian intelligence operation.

Well they're Republicans aren't they?
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Admiral Yi

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #605 on: December 03, 2019, 05:58:45 pm »
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/03/782759563/read-impeachment-inquiry-report-by-house-intelligence-committee

Schiff's impeachment report.  Not nearly as entertaining as the Republican report.
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katmai

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #606 on: December 03, 2019, 07:13:09 pm »
 :bleeding:
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The Minsky Moment

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #607 on: December 03, 2019, 11:53:04 pm »
Schiff's impeachment report.  Not nearly as entertaining as the Republican report.

No surprise.  Non-fiction is often drier than fiction.
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Razgovory

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #608 on: December 04, 2019, 12:27:05 pm »
The constitutional scholars are actually interesting to watch.
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The Brain

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #609 on: December 04, 2019, 02:04:46 pm »
The constitutional scholars are actually interesting to watch.

T&A?
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The Minsky Moment

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #610 on: December 04, 2019, 03:01:35 pm »
I'm not sure what purpose was served by the GOP in calling Turley.  He admitted that a significant breach of public trust would be impeachable and that a quid pro quo of release of aid in exchange for a investigation of the Bidens would rise to the level of an impeachable offense. 

His argument comes down to that the evidence is not sufficient because it isn't "direct." That's a real head-scratcher, as presumably Prof. Turley knows that in any federal case - civil or criminal - the judge will instruct the jury that they may reach a conclusion entirely on the basis of inferential proof.

As an example, here is the 9th circuit's pattern criminal jury instructions:

Quote
Evidence may be direct or circumstantial. Direct evidence is direct proof of a fact, such as testimony by a witness about what that witness personally saw or heard or did. Circumstantial
evidence is indirect evidence, that is, it is proof of one or more facts from which one can find another fact. You are to consider both direct and circumstantial evidence. Either can be used to prove any fact. The law makes no distinction between the weight to be given to either direct or circumstantial evidence. It is for you to decide how much weight to give to any evidence.

A person may be sentenced for a capital criminal crime and executed based entirely on indirect or circumstantial evidence.  It happens all the time.  It is absurd to suggest that only direct evidence can be used to impeach.

What makes it even more absurd here is that the lack of direct evidence isn't because such evidence doesn't exist, but because the President is actively obstructing the presentation of that evidence.  The House and Senate can draw the reasonable inference that the President is doing that because the evidence would be unfavorable to him.
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Admiral Yi

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #611 on: December 04, 2019, 04:07:11 pm »
NPR is airing live.
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Barrister

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #612 on: December 04, 2019, 04:09:07 pm »
NPR is airing live.

What I don't understand is how Fox News can get away with not broadcasting this stuff live.  I mean sure, have your talking heads be all negative about it, but to just pretend it isn't happening?

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #613 on: December 04, 2019, 04:10:47 pm »
Fox is broadcasting to idiots that won't believe anything the other networks say and don't want to experience the cognitive dissonance that would come about by switching the channel.

So of course they don't have any coverage.
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Admiral Yi

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Re: The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump
« Reply #614 on: December 04, 2019, 04:47:59 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNpVc7J8kC8

Fox does seem to have presented this 9 minute chunk of Turley's testimony live.
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