Author Topic: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.  (Read 17370 times)

alfred russel

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2019, 03:51:46 pm »
I'm with Clegg.
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Eddie Teach

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2019, 04:00:23 pm »
Again I ask, why can't they bring Blair back?
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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2019, 04:00:51 pm »

That is weak. That is true of literally every single President there ever is, ever was, and ever will be - even if it is just a numbers game, IE, he has MORE policies that I support, then you are just saying "He is a Republican, I am a Republican, so I support him".

Which, BTW, is exactly why those of us who laugh at your feigned "not support but totally support" stance - you absolutely support him. He is as horrible a human being as we can imagine, but he is a "Republican" and more importantly he is a "Not Liberal" so he can grab as much pussy as he wants, and you will dutifully march in the oh so reluctant rally for MAGA.

You have no principle or integrity beyond "My party, right or wrong". That is what "There are some policies I support...." means.

You are a Trump supporter, just not a very brave one.

So far, there has been one meaningful moment when we have been able to support or not support Trump: the election in 2016. Derspeiss said he did not vote for Trump (he voted third party). So far as I know, Derspeiss hasn't announced or decided who he will vote for in 2020.

I don't think he has contributed money or campaigned to Trump, or a candidate running against Trump.

Now perhaps he is lying and he really voted for Trump. Perhaps the derspeiss persona is all a fraud and he doesn't really have a wife and kids, and he is really a gay Cleveland Browns fan trying to discredit the Cincinnati Bengals. Who knows. But if we take him at his word, he isn't much of a Trump supporter, if he is at all.

So according to this logic, yo would say that someone who was 17 in 2016, not able to vote, but otherwise spends all his time talking about how great Trump is, wears a MAGA hat, runs over liberal in his car at rallies, and shoots brown people at the border while screaming LONG LIVE DER TRUMPENFUHRER!, isn't actually a Trump supporter, since he didn't vote for him, and that is the only thing that matters?

I don't think he has to have lied about voting for Trump to make the claim that he is a Trump supporter stick. I think plenty of comments he has made over the last few years makes it perfectly clear where his support rests. I don't think he voted for Trump, but I think he is perfectly happy he is President rather than any Dem. He is a Trump supporter the same way Mitch or Graham are Trump supporters (and McCain was not). They will carry his water because he is on their team, and their loyalty is to their team, not to their country.
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crazy canuck

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2019, 04:02:21 pm »
Holy crap BB what possible reason would there be to support him other than he has a Big C in the name of the party he will lead. Is that good enough for you?

If BoJo wins the leadership, his opponents will be Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn.  That sounds like a rather easy decision.

 :yes:

Vote Lib Dem

Barrister

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2019, 04:06:45 pm »
Holy crap BB what possible reason would there be to support him other than he has a Big C in the name of the party he will lead. Is that good enough for you?

If BoJo wins the leadership, his opponents will be Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn.  That sounds like a rather easy decision.

 :yes:

Vote Lib Dem

I don't know how the hell I would vote in a snap UK election.  It would be a single-issue election, obviously.  LibDems would be running as the "remain" party.  I'm reminded whenever I open the Brexit thread that I voted in favour of Brexit in that poll.  I think there's some merit to the idea, but I think crashing out in a hard Brexit would be madness.

alfred russel

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2019, 04:16:16 pm »
So according to this logic, yo would say that someone who was 17 in 2016, not able to vote, but otherwise spends all his time talking about how great Trump is, wears a MAGA hat, runs over liberal in his car at rallies, and shoots brown people at the border while screaming LONG LIVE DER TRUMPENFUHRER!, isn't actually a Trump supporter, since he didn't vote for him, and that is the only thing that matters?

I don't think he has to have lied about voting for Trump to make the claim that he is a Trump supporter stick. I think plenty of comments he has made over the last few years makes it perfectly clear where his support rests. I don't think he voted for Trump, but I think he is perfectly happy he is President rather than any Dem. He is a Trump supporter the same way Mitch or Graham are Trump supporters (and McCain was not). They will carry his water because he is on their team, and their loyalty is to their team, not to their country.

Derspeiss wasn't 17 in 2016, did vote in the election, and did not vote for Trump. He also doesn't do the things of the hypothetical 17 year old.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but my impression is that he is on team republican, despises team democrat, and is not a fan of trump. I think that if he was forced to decide between Hillary and Trump he would have chosen Trump, but in the absence of such a forced decision supported neither. I think he is generally taking pleasure in the current despair of team democrat, and triumph of parts of the team republican agenda, while being ambivalent about trump.

My guess is that he will vote for Trump in 2020. But I don't know that (i'm not sure he does either).

The term "supporter" is a bit of a stretch for a guy like derspeiss when he voted for someone else and whose major outward sign of "support" is schadenfreude re: the democrats.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Tonitrus

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2019, 04:35:40 pm »
Again I ask, why can't they bring Blair back?

I like Blair myself...but I get that impression that Blair is to current UK politics, what Gorbachev is to current Russian politics.

Admiral Yi

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2019, 04:37:12 pm »
Derspeiss wasn't 17 in 2016, did vote in the election, and did not vote for Trump. He also doesn't do the things of the hypothetical 17 year old.

He might drive up to the Canadian border once in a while, but probably doesn't find any good brown people to shoot at.
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Iormlund

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2019, 04:45:51 pm »
Again I ask, why can't they bring Blair back?

If I understand correctly, Blair's standing was irredeemably tarnished by supporting Bush Jr. on Iraq. For a significant part of the left he is a war criminal.

The Brain

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2019, 04:49:36 pm »
Blair is intensely hated on the left, and I'm not sure the right would pick him over one of their own.
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Berkut

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2019, 05:21:39 pm »
So according to this logic, yo would say that someone who was 17 in 2016, not able to vote, but otherwise spends all his time talking about how great Trump is, wears a MAGA hat, runs over liberal in his car at rallies, and shoots brown people at the border while screaming LONG LIVE DER TRUMPENFUHRER!, isn't actually a Trump supporter, since he didn't vote for him, and that is the only thing that matters?

I don't think he has to have lied about voting for Trump to make the claim that he is a Trump supporter stick. I think plenty of comments he has made over the last few years makes it perfectly clear where his support rests. I don't think he voted for Trump, but I think he is perfectly happy he is President rather than any Dem. He is a Trump supporter the same way Mitch or Graham are Trump supporters (and McCain was not). They will carry his water because he is on their team, and their loyalty is to their team, not to their country.

Derspeiss wasn't 17 in 2016, did vote in the election, and did not vote for Trump. He also doesn't do the things of the hypothetical 17 year old.

So you agree that it his what he has done OUTSIDE of a vote that can also be determinative of support. And hence your claim that ONLY voting is an actual show of support is not actually true. Glad we got that out of the way.

The rest of your post I agree with - it amounts to he hates Dems more than he loves the US, and if Trump makes Dems unhappy, he is all for it. Which is just a nice way of saying exactly what I said - he is a Trump supporter, because Trump does what he thinks is most important - the perception that liberals are unhappy because he is in charge.

Like I said, this is the exact same reason others without actual principle support Trump,like Graham and McConnell. They care more about their team than their country, or more about making the hated other team unhappy than the well being of their country.

IE, a Trump supporter.

A republican who has principles, who cares more about their country than they do about their team, because their "loyalty" to their team is actually based on the belief that their teams policies are better for their country, will also recognize that terrible people doing terrible things in the name of party "policies" are not actually better for their country, and will decide that a honest Dem is actually better for the country than a POS dishonest scumbag who happens to be their party figurehead.
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The Minsky Moment

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2019, 05:53:48 pm »
Johnson is more Peter Principle in action than mini-Trump.  He was well suited for a mostly ceremonial position that had a high media profile like Mayor of London.  His skill is being amusing and being able the grab headlines, but he isn't a serious person who can bear serious responsibility.  Where the Peter Principle breaks down though is that the appointment to foreign secretary was the promotion that badly exposed his shortcomings and should have finished his ability to rise. Yet somehow that fiasco did not prevent him from further elevation.  He has risen far, far beyond the level of his incompetence, and that incompetence has only fueled his further rise.
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Valmy

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2019, 06:26:08 pm »
Holy crap BB what possible reason would there be to support him other than he has a Big C in the name of the party he will lead. Is that good enough for you?

If BoJo wins the leadership, his opponents will be Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn.  That sounds like a rather easy decision.

 :yes:

Vote Lib Dem

I don't know how the hell I would vote in a snap UK election.  It would be a single-issue election, obviously.  LibDems would be running as the "remain" party.  I'm reminded whenever I open the Brexit thread that I voted in favour of Brexit in that poll.  I think there's some merit to the idea, but I think crashing out in a hard Brexit would be madness.

There are three options. Hard Brexit. The EU's deal. Or no Brexit. Anything else is some kind of fantasy scenario.

In any case as a Lib Dem supporter I cannot help but notice that you justify voting for Boris Johnson because Farage and Corbyn are worse leaders and statemen. But when it comes to the Lib Dems suddenly the statesmanship matters not at all and it all comes down to issues. Why does my party get a higher standard than all the others? The other parties only have to run the least reprehensible asshole.

I mean bearing in mind that both of our support is moral only :P
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Zoupa

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2019, 07:57:55 pm »
derspiess is just a troll guys. No need to feed it.

celedhring

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Re: Prime Minister BoJo It Is.
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2019, 03:49:49 am »
It's a bit difficult for me to choose a particular UK party, without knowing who's standing for the ROTW moral constituency. If Labor is running a non-corbynite candidate I'd non-vote for them.