Author Topic: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy  (Read 2159 times)

Eddie Teach

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2019, 06:24:06 am »
What do you think? Are there serious structural problems in the worlds second best navy?

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Threviel

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2019, 06:59:07 am »
What do you think? Are there serious structural problems in the worlds second best navy?

Who is #1?

It's after an apocryphal story from right after WWII. An American ship greets a British ship with "Greetings to the second largest navy" and the brits respond with "Greetings to the second best navy". Or something like that.

grumbler

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2019, 09:13:28 am »
It's after an apocryphal story from right after WWII. An American ship greets a British ship with "Greetings to the second largest navy" and the brits respond with "Greetings to the second best navy". Or something like that.

That's one of those apocryphal stories that combines the worst of both worlds; the basic idea is silly, and the execution is silly.  One doesn't greet someone by identifying them, one greets someone by identifying one's self.

But "greetings from the world's largest navy" with the response of "greetings from the world's best navy" sounds almost as bad.  Obviously, neither exchange ever happened.  Ships greet each other with flashing lights: "DE [my callsign] AA [what is your call sign?]"
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Threviel

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2019, 09:45:40 am »
It's after an apocryphal story from right after WWII. An American ship greets a British ship with "Greetings to the second largest navy" and the brits respond with "Greetings to the second best navy". Or something like that.

That's one of those apocryphal stories that combines the worst of both worlds; the basic idea is silly, and the execution is silly.  One doesn't greet someone by identifying them, one greets someone by identifying one's self.

But "greetings from the world's largest navy" with the response of "greetings from the world's best navy" sounds almost as bad.  Obviously, neither exchange ever happened.  Ships greet each other with flashing lights: "DE [my callsign] AA [what is your call sign?]"

Yes. But I thought the allusion fitting in this case, since the subject was poor seamanship.

grumbler

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2019, 02:27:50 pm »
Yes. But I thought the allusion fitting in this case, since the subject was poor seamanship.

Vice-Admiral Sir George Tryon thinks your allusions about poor USN seamanship unseemly.
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Threviel

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2019, 02:09:03 am »
Yes. But I thought the allusion fitting in this case, since the subject was poor seamanship.

Vice-Admiral Sir George Tryon thinks your allusions about poor USN seamanship unseemly.

 :lol:

The Minsky Moment

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2019, 10:24:19 am »
I googled that reference and found something interesting: Jellicoe was the XO on the ship that Tryon sunk.  Apparently the disaster did not derail his career to the degree that it prevented him from rising to the heights of command.

Seems like a US officer of that seniority would not have his career survive in similar circumstances.
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dps

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2019, 10:38:29 am »
Well, the 19th century was a different time, too.

Threviel

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2019, 11:10:18 am »
I googled that reference and found something interesting: Jellicoe was the XO on the ship that Tryon sunk.  Apparently the disaster did not derail his career to the degree that it prevented him from rising to the heights of command.

Seems like a US officer of that seniority would not have his career survive in similar circumstances.

He was sick in his bunk when it happened, so no blame on him.

But if I have understood it correct the US Navy is especially hard on those that are involved in a fuckup.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 11:14:58 am by Threviel »

grumbler

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2019, 11:18:45 am »
I googled that reference and found something interesting: Jellicoe was the XO on the ship that Tryon sunk.  Apparently the disaster did not derail his career to the degree that it prevented him from rising to the heights of command.

Seems like a US officer of that seniority would not have his career survive in similar circumstances.

Tryon. OTOH, never again saw a promotion.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Threviel

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2019, 11:20:30 am »
Well, he at least took responsibility in the classic manner.

Threviel

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2019, 11:33:50 am »
By the way grumbler, how much sleep would you normally get when in the navy? To me it seems strange with all the sleep deprivation, is that some kind of naturalisation or something?

grumbler

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2019, 04:09:18 pm »
By the way grumbler, how much sleep would you normally get when in the navy? To me it seems strange with all the sleep deprivation, is that some kind of naturalisation or something?

That depends.  Even at sea, when in the normal training cycle, it would be possible to get seven or eight hours of sleep in a couple of shifts, because you are in three watches - you'd spend eight hours a day on watch, maybe four or five on maintenance or training, and then have eleven or twelve hours for sleep, eating, etc. When deployed, though, you'd just as often as not be on watch twelve hours as day (because you are manning weapons systems as well as seakeeping stations) and still have four hours a day for administrative and maintenance stuff.  That leaves eight hours to eat and sleep, etc.  You'd be lucky to get six hours a day.  After a few day's of that you'd catch a lot of colds, get seasick easily, and feel miserable all the time.  A good XO would make sure you scheduled "stand down" days every five or six days when there would be no maintenance and everyone could catch a few extra hours of Zs. Those were godsends.  Port visits even more so, because you'd need far fewer people on watch.

You get used to being tired all the time, but you never like it.  All in all, though, I really liked sea duty. 
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

crazy canuck

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2019, 06:15:59 pm »
All in all, though, I really liked sea duty.

I suppose it's like being an athlete on a team with a demanding coach.  Hard, grinding work but remembered as the best of days.

Tonitrus

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Re: Death and valor on an American warship doomed by its navy
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2019, 06:49:08 pm »
It can't all be rum and sodomy.