About those peaceful antifa protests...

[Ancient Demon]

2% of 372 is 7-8.
An incident where 5 are dead fits.

Sure, that's why I said almost.

[Ancient Demon]

Whatever your opponents accuse you of, accuse them of the same thing.

If they are doing the same thing, it's a fair accusation.

[Valmy]

Whatever your opponents accuse you of, accuse them of the same thing.

If they are doing the same thing, it's a fair accusation.

Um...no that was not the point at all. I am tempted here just to restate myself again a different way but because I am not clear why you thought this had anything to do with what I was I saying would you mind saying what you think I was saying?

[derspiess]

Semi-related-- https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/colorado-man-stabbed-neo-nazi-haircut-163146326.html

[viper37]

Why do we need to be peaceful?

no reason at all. destroy everything, kill everyone who resists. 

Just don't be surprised that people start arming themselves to be protected from the thugs you support.

[garbon]

Why do we need to be peaceful?

no reason at all. destroy everything, kill everyone who resists. 

Just don't be surprised that people start arming themselves to be protected from the thugs you support.

Far as I can tell, the cops are already armed so they should be equipped to deal with rocks and urine.

[Valmy]

Semi-related-- https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/colorado-man-stabbed-neo-nazi-haircut-163146326.html

I figured this would be coming here eventually. I thought he had a fine haircut.

[Kleves]

For starters, while antifa perpetrates violence, it doesn't perpetrate it on anything like the scale that white nationalists do. It's no coincidence that it was a Nazi sympathizer—and not an antifa activist—who committed murder in Charlottesville. According to the Anti-Defamation League, right-wing extremists committed 74 percent of the 372 politically motivated murders recorded in the United States between 2007 and 2016. Left-wing extremists committed less than 2 percent

This is the study that I looked at for those numbers: https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/MurderAndExtremismInUS2016.pdf

If that's the correct study, then I think the statistic quoted in the article is seriously misleading. The study looks to extremist-related killings, not politically-motivated killings. In general, it looks like the vast majority of the killings are not ideologically motivated. For example, the study would count a skinhead killing another skinhead over meth as an extremist-related killing, since the skinheads are extremists. Obviously this is significantly different from a skinhead targeting and killing someone because of their race/religion. This would skew the statistics to make political violence look more common than it is, and also skew the statistics toward right-wing extremist since "whites-only" skinhead/Aryan Nation gangs are generally counted as right-wing extremists, but groups like the Black Gangster Disciples or MS-13 are not counted as extremist at all (though tough to see how they could be counted as left or right-wing).

[garbon]

Semi-related-- https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/colorado-man-stabbed-neo-nazi-haircut-163146326.html

I figured this would be coming here eventually. I thought he had a fine haircut.

Strange that one of his priorities was to take photos of it to put on twitter.

[The Minsky Moment]

Kleves - the ALD doc you linked to notes the limitations:

The main limitation of cross-movement comparisons is that extremist connections to killings are easier to determine for some movements than for others. For example, white supremacists, who frequently sport many racist and white supremacist tattoos, or who may be documented as white supremacists by gang investigators or corrections officials, are often more easily identifiable. In contrast, it may be more difficult for police or media to identify, say, anti-government extremist associations that a suspect might have. This issue
comes up most often with non-ideological killings rather than ideologically-motivated ones. It is fair to say that nonideological murders committed by extremists other than white supremacists are probably underrepresented here.

In addition, because murders that occur behind bars often get little or no reporting by the media, and are typically not publicized by prison officials, prison-based violence by all extremist movements is definitely under-represented

Note that while the first factor would bias WS violence upwards, the second factor might bias it downward.

[viper37]

Antifa seems to me to be a vigilante group out to save us from fascism because the police are incapable. Vigilantism of any stripe is dangerous. I am not sure what else needs to be said really.

Yeah but Antifa (and BLM) provides the necessary 'whataboutism' cover. Tamas explained all about how that worked in Hungary. Whatever your opponents accuse you of, accuse them of the same thing. I have seen memes saying that Antifa is the 'armed wing of the Democratic Party' now. It is uncanny how it works just like Tamas said.

That is one problem, of course.  One of the other problem being that is untrue that blacks are more targetted by cops than other.  The data does not support BLM's claims for violent encounters with police officers. 
Link
That's for BLM.

The other problem in general, is described right here with Grey Fox and Jacob's attitude: They don't care.  Whatever violence is used by the far left, the mainstream left will almost always find a justification for it.  "Capitalism is violence in itself, we must resist by force".  "Nazis are violent and anti-democratic we must use force".  "The guy looked like a nazi".  "Blacks are subjected to police violence".  "The police protects nazis".  "They're scabs". "They refuse to follow us".  "They're not with us". "They're rich".  "They're English Canadians".

Unlike the leftists, I don't believe Gangs of New York is the ideal way to settle differences.

As distasteful as racism is, so long as they remain peaceful, racists have the rights to express themselves.

Freedom of speech is essential for our society, and that means accepting distateful stuff.

I understand the situation in the US is different, since the new President has changed tone and has dismantled the special FBI unit investigating such groups for domestic terrorism.

But in Canada?  In Quebec? What reasons they did have to sack the city?  The group was only anti illegal immigration.  No white power stuff.  No racist slogans.  They're certainly hiding something and they're quite secretive about their actions, but that's no reason to physically attack them yet.

You may disagree with their speech, but that's no reason to trash the city, excuse their behavior, minimize their actions or even promote it by saying it was justified.  Yet, with the left, they always excuse such behaviors because it's for the cause.

Frankly, Donald Trump aside, how many Canadian and American mainstream politicians (those elected to office) ever excused violent behaviour from the rigth?  Or said something to the effect: "Violence is not a solution, but..." followed by a variation of: they were provoked/they suffer violence everyday by the system ?

I can't remember of any.

And please, don't tell me like GF will try that the right or the mysterious rich hold all the power.  Justin Trudeau's Liberal party is virtually the same as the current NDP.  Québec Solidaire controls the center of Montreal with a constant rise in votes in the metropolitan area and last time the PQ held power, their economic agenda was totally the same as QS.  The Quebec Liberal Party follows the same pattern since Robert Bourassa in 1985: a few minor cuts for the first two years, massive public spending for the two next, status quo for the next mandate. 

As soon as a high ranking union member is under investigation, the government orders a shutdown to avoid "provocation".  When leftists destroys the city once per century as it looks, they always find their cheerleaders.  Now in the US, they are attacking people who only look like nazi.  This fucking witch hunt has got to stop.  And it won't so long as there are people excusing their indecent behaviour, the same way Donald Trump is doing with the KKK scumbags.  When you use a soft tone with extremists, they only get bolder with time.

[viper37]

Far as I can tell, the cops are already armed so they should be equipped to deal with rocks and urine.

If the left is totally justified to use violence because they feel the police apparently protects the neo nazi scums, than I am totally justified to use violence because I feel the police apparently protects the far left scums. 

We will all be better once we're armed to the teeth and confront one another everywhere

[Valmy]

Unlike the leftists, I don't believe Gangs of New York is the ideal way to settle differences.

I guess I missed the mainstream politicians calling for vigilante mobs. Yet you state this as a fact.

[Valmy]

Far as I can tell, the cops are already armed so they should be equipped to deal with rocks and urine.

If the left is totally justified to use violence because they feel the police apparently protects the neo nazi scums, than I am totally justified to use violence because I feel the police apparently protects the far left scums. 

We will all be better once we're armed to the teeth and confront one another everywhere

That is the basis of Antifa's reason to exist which is obviously dangerous nonsense. I was not aware anybody was claiming this was good besides themselves though.

[Monoriu]

I am not entirely sure what the argument is.  While neo-Nazis are certainly undesirable, it is also highly undesirable to use violence to stop their marches or rallies.  Any violence used should be strictly for self-defence, or defence of others.