Author Topic: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?  (Read 472550 times)

Admiral Yi

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18105 on: May 17, 2018, 12:30:48 am »
Beeb disagreed with whoever said Iran is no worse than other countries.  He's either right or wrong.  It "makes no sense" to mention it if you think the only value of a discussion is in picking a side, and once you're on the right said it doesn't matter whether the things you say are true or not.
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Jacob

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18106 on: May 17, 2018, 12:41:19 am »
Beeb disagreed with whoever said Iran is no worse than other countries.  He's either right or wrong.  It "makes no sense" to mention it if you think the only value of a discussion is in picking a side, and once you're on the right said it doesn't matter whether the things you say are true or not.

Berkut said "no worse than many other countries" - not "no worse than any other country." The point he was making is that when the US is allied with or co-operates with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and has no particular issues with Qatar or the United Arab Emirates f.ex., then making the case that Iran's badness is reason enough on its own to withdraw from the treaty with Iran rings hollow.

No one is arguing that Iran doesn't suck, but their suckiness is not singularly spectacular enough to make a good case for withdrawing from the agreement. What Beeb said "makes no sense" because it deliberately misconstrued Berkut's point (that "Iran is not singularly bad", which Beeb turned into "Iran is no worse than other countries") .

jimmy olsen

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18107 on: May 17, 2018, 12:44:04 am »
Saudi Arabia: no nukes, no plans for nukes.  Not a state sponsor of terrorism.  Projection of military force is limited to Yemen.


Saudi Arabia sponsors terrorism.

Saudi Arabia sponsors radical islamic militias fighting in Syria.

Saudi Arabia is currently committing genocide in Yemen.

Saudi Arabia has a deal to buy nukes from Pakistan should they need to.

I'll agree with you on the first 2 points, but who are they committing genocide against in Iran, and what's your source for the 4th point?

EDIT:  in Yemen, not Iran.
The Saudi intervention has been brutal, with no regards for civilian casualties and has caused mass famine and epidemics that have led to mass deaths.

As for 4, it's an open secret
http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabia-and-pakistans-nuclear-weapons-pact-2015-2
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Admiral Yi

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18108 on: May 17, 2018, 12:45:46 am »
Berkut said "no worse than many other countries" - not "no worse than any other country." The point he was making is that when the US is allied with or co-operates with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and has no particular issues with Qatar or the United Arab Emirates f.ex., then making the case that Iran's badness is reason enough on its own to withdraw from the treaty with Iran rings hollow.

No one is arguing that Iran doesn't suck, but their suckiness is not singularly spectacular enough to make a good case for withdrawing from the agreement. What Beeb said "makes no sense" because it deliberately misconstrued Berkut's point (that "Iran is not singularly bad", which Beeb turned into "Iran is no worse than other countries") .

Berkut said all that?
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Jacob

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18109 on: May 17, 2018, 12:48:15 am »
Berkut said "no worse than many other countries" - not "no worse than any other country." The point he was making is that when the US is allied with or co-operates with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and has no particular issues with Qatar or the United Arab Emirates f.ex., then making the case that Iran's badness is reason enough on its own to withdraw from the treaty with Iran rings hollow.

No one is arguing that Iran doesn't suck, but their suckiness is not singularly spectacular enough to make a good case for withdrawing from the agreement. What Beeb said "makes no sense" because it deliberately misconstrued Berkut's point (that "Iran is not singularly bad", which Beeb turned into "Iran is no worse than other countries") .

Berkut said all that?

Yup.

Razgovory

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18110 on: May 17, 2018, 05:49:01 am »
I honestly don't know if Iran is worse than Saudi Arabia or vice versa.  I know Iran is an enemy of the US, but that's probably not that important a factor from the European perspective.
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Berkut

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18111 on: May 17, 2018, 07:41:28 am »
Beeb disagreed with whoever said Iran is no worse than other countries.  He's either right or wrong.

For him to be right, he would have to argue that there is not a single other country in the world that is as bad as Iran.

This is basically the argument that spicey made - that Iran is so bad, we can assume that the Euroes are all bastards just looking to make mad fat cash and willing to deal with THE WORST REGIME EVER, and their not following the US lead is based on pure greed.

Quote
It "makes no sense" to mention it if you think the only value of a discussion is in picking a side, and once you're on the right said it doesn't matter whether the things you say are true or not.

Saying it makes no sense is under the assumption that he really doesn't believe that Iran is arguably worse than every single other country in the world, such that we should not make any deals with them regardless of their merits, and we should in fact unilaterally withdraw from deals already made regardless of the consequence of such a withdrawal, because they are just that bad.

Otherwise, the comment makes no sense in the context of the discussion.

I was actually kind of surprised to find that perhaps he actually does think that - that Iran is somehow the worst possible pariah nation...which seems to ridiculous a position (and he has never said so before that I recall) that I was wondering if maybe this is some kind of evangelical commitment to armageddon thing, where the crazy fucking right wingers in the US appear to be wanting to antagonize the issue because they are hoping for that end of times war crazy shit. I don't THINK he is that flavor of nuts, but I am not sure what other justification the warmonger right has for throwing wrenches into the Iran deal.
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Berkut

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18112 on: May 17, 2018, 07:41:54 am »
Berkut said "no worse than many other countries" - not "no worse than any other country." The point he was making is that when the US is allied with or co-operates with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and has no particular issues with Qatar or the United Arab Emirates f.ex., then making the case that Iran's badness is reason enough on its own to withdraw from the treaty with Iran rings hollow.

No one is arguing that Iran doesn't suck, but their suckiness is not singularly spectacular enough to make a good case for withdrawing from the agreement. What Beeb said "makes no sense" because it deliberately misconstrued Berkut's point (that "Iran is not singularly bad", which Beeb turned into "Iran is no worse than other countries") .

Berkut said all that?

Yup.

Hell, I probably said all that a couple times now....
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Eddie Teach

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18113 on: May 17, 2018, 07:50:08 am »
This is Languish, we digress all the time. I don't think people commenting on how awful or not Iran is are stating anything about whether we should keep the deal in place.
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jimmy olsen

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18114 on: May 18, 2018, 01:37:01 am »
Lol

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/997251082186182656
Quote
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HVC

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18115 on: May 18, 2018, 03:46:49 am »
Guess the government is moving to apple computers soon.
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derspiess

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18116 on: May 21, 2018, 08:23:25 am »
Trade war canceled.
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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18117 on: May 21, 2018, 09:58:32 am »
Yes very successful negotiation.  China gets its telecom company off the sanctions list and avoids tariffs, in return for funding a theme park project in Indonesia.  What a win for America!
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derspiess

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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18118 on: May 21, 2018, 10:15:44 am »
Yes very successful negotiation.  China gets its telecom company off the sanctions list and avoids tariffs, in return for funding a theme park project in Indonesia.  What a win for America!

You forgot the part where China pinky-swears to buy more American stuff.
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Re: What does a TRUMP presidency look like?
« Reply #18119 on: May 21, 2018, 11:11:18 am »
Yes very successful negotiation.  China gets its telecom company off the sanctions list and avoids tariffs, in return for funding a theme park project in Indonesia.  What a win for America!

You forgot the part where China pinky-swears to buy more American stuff.

 :lol:

I am afraid a lot of business interests, far smarter than Trump's little family, are making note of how directly he is selling American national interest for personal cash, and how ok the Republican voters are with this.
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