Poll

How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
11 (12.2%)
British - Leave
7 (7.8%)
Other European - Remain
19 (21.1%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6.7%)
ROTW - Remain
28 (31.1%)
ROTW - Leave
19 (21.1%)

Total Members Voted: 90

Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 306979 times)

garbon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6345 on: April 17, 2018, 08:43:41 am »
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer

Quote
Home Office destroyed Windrush landing cards, says ex-staffer

The Home Office destroyed thousands of landing card slips recording Windrush immigrants’ arrival dates in the UK, despite staff warnings that the move would make it harder to check the records of older Caribbean-born residents experiencing residency difficulties.

A former Home Office employee said the records, stored in the basement of a government tower block, were a vital resource for case workers when they were asked to find information about someone’s arrival date in the UK from the West Indies – usually when the individual was struggling to resolve immigration status problems.

Although the home secretary, Amber Rudd, has promised to make it easier for Windrush-generation residents to regularise their status, the destruction of the database is likely to make the process harder, even with the support of the new taskforce announced this week.

The former employee (who has asked for his name not to be printed) said it was decided in 2010 to destroy the disembarkation cards, which dated back to the 1950s and 60s, when the Home Office’s Whitgift Centre in Croydon was closed and the staff were moved to another site. Employees in his department told their managers it was a bad idea, because these papers were often the last remaining record of a person’s arrival date, in the event of uncertainty or lost documents. The files were destroyed in October that year, when Theresa May was home secretary.

A person’s arrival date is crucial to a citizenship application, because the 1971 Immigration Act gave people who had already moved to Britain indefinite leave to remain.

When staff were asked to find evidence of an arrival from the Caribbean or other former colonies and had difficulty tracing any other records, senior officers would request the key to the basement of the neighbouring building and consult the landing cards. They recorded the names, dates of arrival and in some cases the name of the ship.

“Sometimes the Passport Office would call up, and people would say: ‘I’ll look in the basement,’” the ex-employee said.

After the destruction of the archive, when an individual requested confirmation of an arrival date, staff had to reply stating there was no record of it.

From around 2013 onwards, he said, the number of requests from people from the Caribbean began to increase.

“Every week or two, someone would say: ‘I’ve got another one here,’” he said. “People were writing to say: ‘I’ve been here 45 years, I’ve never had a passport, I’ve never needed a passport. Now I’m being told I’m not British, because there is no record of me’.

“Because it was no longer possible to search in the archive of landing cards, people would be sent a standard letter that would state: ‘We have searched our records, we can find no trace of you in our files.’”

Immigration lawyers have repeatedly criticised the Home Office’s insistence that it is up to individuals to provide copious evidence proving their right to be in the UK. If UK officials had kept a record of everyone granted indefinite leave to remain, they say, the problem would never have arisen.

Less than a month ago, responding to concern over NHS refusal to grant cancer treatment to Albert Thompson, the prime minister said he “needed to evidence his settled status”.

...
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Tyr

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6346 on: April 17, 2018, 11:20:39 am »
It's just crazy how often records were destroyed in the mid 20th century, this happened with a lot of the BBC archive. But to hear it happened in 2010...we should have known better by then. Wow


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Well, the outlook on brexit seems good. The pound is rising like crazy.
:) for brexit but :( for my wealth.
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Admiral Yi

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6347 on: April 17, 2018, 12:19:03 pm »
What do you have your money in Squeeze?
I'm up $25 on DGuller.

Tyr

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6348 on: April 17, 2018, 01:43:26 pm »
What do you have your money in Squeeze?
Mostly still in chf.
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Admiral Yi

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6349 on: April 17, 2018, 02:37:44 pm »
Mostly still in chf.

Please tell me it's not still sitting in some God-forsaken savings account earning a nano percent.
I'm up $25 on DGuller.

garbon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6350 on: April 18, 2018, 08:19:48 am »
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/18/pmqs-verdict-may-dodges-bullet-with-claim-labour-destroyed-landing-cards

Quote
PMQs verdict: May dodges bullet with claim Labour destroyed landing cards

Theresa May said people who came to the UK from the Commonwealth countries had made a huge contribution to the nation. These people were British. There was no intention of making them leave, she said.

She said she wanted to say sorry and to apologise to those who had “mistakenly” received letters threatening deportation.

Jeremy Corbyn said that last month he raised the case of Albert Thompson, who has lived in the UK for decades but has been denied NHS treatment. May brushed it off, saying Thompson was not part of the Windrush generation. But she said clinicians had been looking at his case, and he would get the treatment he needed.

Corbyn asked if May took the decision to destroy the landing cards of Windrush immigrants. No, said May. The decision was taken in 2009 under a Labour government.

Corbyn countered that under May, the Home Office was heartless and hopeless. And, he said, under her the government is callous and incompetent.

needed.

Corbyn asked if May took the decision to destroy the landing cards of Windrush immigrants. No, said May. The decision was taken in 2009 under a Labour government.

Corbyn countered that under May, the Home Office was heartless and hopeless. And, he said, under her the government is callous and incompetent.

Snap verdict
May prevailed. She dodged the bullet. It would be wrong to describe anything associated with this wretched affair as a triumph, or even a victory, but it was a success of sorts because, in response to the killer question, she had an answer that exonerated her. Or at least seemed to.

We need to learn more about her claim that it was the Labour home secretary in 2009 (Jacqui Smith or Alan Johnson) who took the decision to get rid of the Windrush landing cards, but for the purposes of PMQs, her answer was enough to derail Corbyn and let her off the hook.

(May’s comment about Albert Thompson now getting NHS treatment also needs further scrutiny, as Corbyn suggested when he countered that if the treatment was being provided, Thompson had not been told.)

Barristers supposedly operate on the basis that you should never ask a question to which you don’t know the answer, and Corbyn did not seem to have prepared for May’s riposte on the landing cards. That said, he did not really let it throw him off his stride. He had another deadly question ready – the one about whether Amber Rudd, or May, was to blame for the institutional problems within the Home Office that Rudd mentioned on Monday (and he should have asked it a second time, after May ignored it). And his soundbite sound-off in question six was good. But it is hard to avoid the feeling that Labour MPs will view this as a missed opportunity.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Tamas

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6351 on: April 18, 2018, 08:27:49 am »
If you think of the personalities who argued in the same building in the past, having a May vs Corbyn match as the highlight of the day is a sad state of affairs.
Now I used to hear a thunder
There was lightning in my veins
Sometimes I can feel it
Like it's coming back again
Some nights it's so heavy
And the weight is pressing down
And I lie awake in arguments
With shadows and with doubts

garbon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6352 on: April 18, 2018, 08:29:05 am »
While I agree with the sentiment, has anyone ever noted May vs Corbyn as a highlight of the day?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Tamas

  • Blessed by Valmy
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6353 on: April 18, 2018, 08:59:21 am »
While I agree with the sentiment, has anyone ever noted May vs Corbyn as a highlight of the day?

As in the big political event of the day due to being PMQ
Now I used to hear a thunder
There was lightning in my veins
Sometimes I can feel it
Like it's coming back again
Some nights it's so heavy
And the weight is pressing down
And I lie awake in arguments
With shadows and with doubts

Tyr

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6354 on: April 18, 2018, 09:27:57 am »
Why oh why is the only way to get rid of an MP non voluntarily death.

Mostly still in chf.

Please tell me it's not still sitting in some God-forsaken savings account earning a nano percent.

That's the only choice in my situation. I can't open an isa
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 09:30:47 am by Tyr »
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Gups

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6355 on: April 18, 2018, 10:06:11 am »
Why oh why is the only way to get rid of an MP non voluntarily death.

Mostly still in chf.

Please tell me it's not still sitting in some God-forsaken savings account earning a nano percent.

That's the only choice in my situation. I can't open an isa

Why do you need an ISA? It's not like you're going to be liable for loads of tax on any gains anyway.  Surely you can invest in bonds or a unit trust or something.

Agelastus

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6356 on: April 18, 2018, 10:51:25 am »
Corbyn asked if May took the decision to destroy the landing cards of Windrush immigrants. No, said May. The decision was taken in 2009 under a Labour government.

That's what I guessed when I noticed how carefully worded the Guardian story was - they carefully specified that they were destroyed when May and the Tories were in charge, but not that they were destroyed as a result of a decision she and the Tories made. And given how long it takes decisions to be put into effect and the date of the destruction it was fairly obvious what they were not saying.

Useless as I consider May to be as a Home Secretary paperwork regarding the destruction, either before or after the event, probably never crossed her desk; I would not be the least bit surprised that she has genuinely only learned of it recently.
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."

Richard Hakluyt

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6357 on: April 18, 2018, 11:20:05 am »
Very odd that they were destroyed; regardless of who did it. They are clearly useful while these people are still alive; later on, in 50 years or so, they would have been of interest to historians for example.

Tyr

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6358 on: April 18, 2018, 11:24:00 am »
Pretty clear lying from May there.
She knows definitive proof will be hard to come by of the destruction being signed off and all labour have to go on is the word of a few people who used to work in the department.
All they have to do is muddy the waters and rely on the media to do the rest.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/04/did-theresa-may-just-lie-parliament


Why do you need an ISA? It's not like you're going to be liable for loads of tax on any gains anyway.  Surely you can invest in bonds or a unit trust or something.

Best interest rates.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 11:25:35 am by Tyr »
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Agelastus

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6359 on: April 18, 2018, 12:16:22 pm »
Very odd that they were destroyed; regardless of who did it. They are clearly useful while these people are still alive; later on, in 50 years or so, they would have been of interest to historians for example.

I can't and don't disagree with this; the whole issue with "Windrush" migrants is a disgrace given the way the 1971 act was originally framed and the original circumstances of their arrival.
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."