Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Tamas

So what, cca. 33 million did not want to Leave, then, is that's what they are saying?

Syt

Theresa May travels to the EU summit.

I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Maladict

Quote from: Syt on October 17, 2018, 02:22:04 AM
*daily express*

Good to see Billy Connolly is still hanging in there  :)

Valmy

#7383
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2018, 01:13:46 AM
I do believe that the union will end at some point, possibly quite soon. It has lost its purpose. But that doesn't alter the fact that the newly independent Scotland will have a budget deficit of 8% or so of GDP and will have to endure brutal austerity in its early years.

Also, as Adam Smith remarked, there is a "great deal of ruin in a nation". After brexit the UK will still have its populace and infrastructure and traditions. After a painful recession I expect growth to resume. Unless we do an Argentina of course, but that would require an entire century of political stupidity.


What is the purpose of having two squabbling nations in one tiny island? Wouldn't there be more of a purpose to have one? Especially with devolved powers?

Borders create conflict and are a huge and mostly pointless pain in the ass for everybody. I mean presently shitloads of families and businesses and other institutions are split across that border. Let's make things really suck ass for them? I strongly disagree that there is zero purpose to avoiding a huge shitshow.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote from: Syt on October 17, 2018, 02:22:04 AM


This is ridiculous. One man, one vote, one time eh? How third world. I mean the public may indeed still support Brexit but there is nothing un-Democratic about having multiple votes and debates on things. It is why we do not elect dictators for life but instead have regular elections.

I mean as if direct democracy was not bad enough.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Tamas

Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2018, 07:18:28 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2018, 01:13:46 AM
I do believe that the union will end at some point, possibly quite soon. It has lost its purpose. But that doesn't alter the fact that the newly independent Scotland will have a budget deficit of 8% or so of GDP and will have to endure brutal austerity in its early years.

Also, as Adam Smith remarked, there is a "great deal of ruin in a nation". After brexit the UK will still have its populace and infrastructure and traditions. After a painful recession I expect growth to resume. Unless we do an Argentina of course, but that would require an entire century of political stupidity.


What is the purpose of having two squabbling nations in one tiny island? Wouldn't there be more of a purpose to have one? Especially with devolved powers?

Borders create conflict and are a huge and mostly pointless pain in the ass for everybody. I mean presently shitloads of families and businesses and other institutions are split across that border. Let's make things really suck ass for them? I strongly disagree that there is zero purpose to avoiding a huge shitshow.

I agree but Britains is NOT a tiny island. It's fucking huge actually.

Valmy

#7386
Quote from: Tamas on October 17, 2018, 07:32:41 AM
I agree but Britains is NOT a tiny island. It's fucking huge actually.

You could comfortably fit three of them inside Texas. It would be a bit of a tighter squeeze but you could nearly fit three inside Metropolitan France as well.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

mongers

#7387
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2018, 07:40:17 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 17, 2018, 07:32:41 AM
I agree but Britains is NOT a tiny island. It's fucking huge actually.

You could comfortably fit three of them inside Texas. It would be a bit of a tighter squeeze but you could nearly fit three inside Metropolitan France as well.

Great Britain is in the top 10 largest islands in the world, so according by your yardstick some of those and all others islands in the world are tiny or smaller still?  :hmm:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Valmy

Quote from: mongers on October 17, 2018, 07:45:56 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2018, 07:40:17 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 17, 2018, 07:32:41 AM
I agree but Britains is NOT a tiny island. It's fucking huge actually.

You could comfortably fit three of them inside Texas. It would be a bit of a tighter squeeze but you could nearly fit three inside Metropolitan France as well.

Great Britain is in the top 10 largest islands in the world, so according by your yardstick some of those and all others islands in the world are tiny or smaller still?  :hmm:

Australia is far bigger and I don't see the purpose of splitting it up into two countries either.

I mean look how much shit is caused by having two countries in Ireland. Fuck look how much shit is created by having that stupid international border between the US and Canada. Now I am not saying that sometimes putting up with the political conflict and dislocation of an international border doesn't make some sense. There may be advantages that outweigh all those problems. I do not see what those might be for Scotland and England. And I certainly disagree with the notion that not having one serves no purpose. I mean it is one of the primary reason the EU exists, to try to overcome those problems.

I mean I guess I could point to centuries of conflict between Scotland and England before the Union. And yes there would not be wars and brigandage and all that nonsense going on but there would be conflicts and problems that would impact many people and make their lives worse.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

And despite everybody's best intentions, anybody who thinks a break up of the Union would be this collegial, mature, and well managed process that would not lead to quarreling and acrimony and conflict between England and Scotland is a fool.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Richard Hakluyt

It rather depends how much coercion is required. The Baltics are rather ridiculous little countries from the point of view of Russia.............it would be so much better for them to be part of a reborn Soviet Union  :P

But that is one of the best things aboout the EU; it allows for the aspirations of smaller nations whilst avoiding a lot of the problems you mention. Still useless on defence though.

Valmy

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2018, 08:08:20 AM
It rather depends how much coercion is required. The Baltics are rather ridiculous little countries from the point of view of Russia.............it would be so much better for them to be part of a reborn Soviet Union  :P

But that is one of the best things aboout the EU; it allows for the aspirations of smaller nations whilst avoiding a lot of the problems you mention. Still useless on defence though.


Indeed. Scotland and England inside the EU would work out fine. But equally why wouldn't they both work out fine in a similar arrangement that could be called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on October 17, 2018, 12:02:50 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2018, 08:08:20 AM
It rather depends how much coercion is required. The Baltics are rather ridiculous little countries from the point of view of Russia.............it would be so much better for them to be part of a reborn Soviet Union  :P

But that is one of the best things aboout the EU; it allows for the aspirations of smaller nations whilst avoiding a lot of the problems you mention. Still useless on defence though.


Indeed. Scotland and England inside the EU would work out fine. But equally why wouldn't they both work out fine in a similar arrangement that could be called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

One day I aspire to be my own nation.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

The Brain

People, government, and Parliament all decided that Brexit was a good idea. Why change their minds now? Nothing has changed.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Tamas

A solution is materialising: May will kick the can down the road for a year more and the EU will let her, i.e. the "transitional period" will last a year more.