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Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

Started by Syt, December 06, 2015, 01:55:02 PM

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The Brain

Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.

Yeah I never understood why "African-American" was used than just saying "Black"

Besides there was a time when you knew exactly who that term referred to, but now we have so many immigrants from Africa that it gets confusing.

Well, actually, that's the point--it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans.  Sort of like "Irish-American" distinguishes Americans with Irish ancestors from people in Ireland.

Also, I'm not sure when the term "African-American" came into use, but I think it might have dated back to a time when calling someone "black" was almost as rude as calling them the n-word.

I can certainly see garbon's father's point.

If you're from Nigeria or Uganda you're not really an American?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Berkut

Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 01:27:56 PM
Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.

Yeah I never understood why "African-American" was used than just saying "Black"

Besides there was a time when you knew exactly who that term referred to, but now we have so many immigrants from Africa that it gets confusing.

Well, actually, that's the point--it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans.  Sort of like "Irish-American" distinguishes Americans with Irish ancestors from people in Ireland.

Also, I'm not sure when the term "African-American" came into use, but I think it might have dated back to a time when calling someone "black" was almost as rude as calling them the n-word.

I can certainly see garbon's father's point.

If you're from Nigeria or Uganda you're not really an American?

Huh?

If you are from Nigeria and are an American, then you could be called a "Nigerian-American". But if you are from Nigeria and not an American, then no, you are not really an American.

I don't understand the confusion here...

Nor do I understand black people not liking being called "African-American". On the other hand, I don't understand them not liking being called "black" or "colored". Hell, I don't really understand any of the social rules around what to call minorities.

But I don't really have to understand - not really. I am pretty happy calling them whatever term they prefer to be called, within reason. That seems to be just simple politeness. And if it changes over time, that's ok too - it doesn't seem like such a burden to adjust.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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The Brain

#7547
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2019, 01:27:56 PM
Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 23, 2019, 07:00:57 AM
I'm not sure that one belongs here. This is a sentiment that my father has expressed as he otherwise feel like we are qualifying his American status. He'd much rather be called black.

Yeah I never understood why "African-American" was used than just saying "Black"

Besides there was a time when you knew exactly who that term referred to, but now we have so many immigrants from Africa that it gets confusing.

Well, actually, that's the point--it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans.  Sort of like "Irish-American" distinguishes Americans with Irish ancestors from people in Ireland.

Also, I'm not sure when the term "African-American" came into use, but I think it might have dated back to a time when calling someone "black" was almost as rude as calling them the n-word.

I can certainly see garbon's father's point.

If you're from Nigeria or Uganda you're not really an American?

Huh?

If you are from Nigeria and are an American, then you could be called a "Nigerian-American". But if you are from Nigeria and not an American, then no, you are not really an American.

I don't understand the confusion here...


"it's used to distinguish black Americans from, say, Nigerians or Ugandans. " Many Americans from Nigeria or Uganda are black, it just seemed more likely to me that it was the American part that differed and not the black part.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Valmy

Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
I am pretty happy calling them whatever term they prefer to be called

Except they use both terms and disagree on what is the best term to use.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

dps

#7549
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2019, 01:31:53 PM

Nor do I understand black people not liking being called "African-American". On the other hand, I don't understand them not liking being called "black" or "colored". Hell, I don't really understand any of the social rules around what to call minorities.

But I don't really have to understand - not really. I am pretty happy calling them whatever term they prefer to be called, within reason. That seems to be just simple politeness. And if it changes over time, that's ok too - it doesn't seem like such a burden to adjust.

Well, the problem can be that when the "rulss" about what is appropriate and polite to call someone change, it's not like they get posted somewhere.  When I was a kid, a lot of older people referred to black people as "colored".  That had been the polite term to use for roughly the first half of the 20th century (as in NAACP--National Association for the Advancement of Colored People).  But by the 1970s, black people, especially younger ones, tended to not like the term and preferred to be called black, which as I mentioned had previously been considered almost as insulting as the n-word.  A lot of white folks, especially older ones, didn't get that memo, and continued to use "colored" and wondered why people got offended.

EDIT: also, what Valmy said.

The Brain

Are Nigerian-Americans African-Americans?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Valmy

Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Zoupa


Valmy

Quote from: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:

Why? I mean it is not a big deal but the fact there is not really a term that describes the descendants of the enslaved people in the US only has been a thing for awhile.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Tamas

Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:

Why? I mean it is not a big deal but the fact there is not really a term that describes the descendants of the enslaved people in the US only has been a thing for awhile.

Why would you seek a separate word for descendants of slaves? I am sure most people had some slaves among their ancestors somewhere down the line, as it was a pretty common practice.

It reminds me a bit of the "third generation immigrant" BS in Western Europe. Of my generation in Hungary and especially the previous one, I am sure a LOT were third-generation immigrants of Slavs and Germans, but nobody gave a damn because they happened to fit in to the picture skin-colour wise.

Valmy

Quote from: Tamas on August 23, 2019, 03:35:32 PM
Why would you seek a separate word for descendants of slaves? I am sure most people had some slaves among their ancestors somewhere down the line, as it was a pretty common practice.

Heh. I meant this specific group of people that has their own culture and history and are a very important part of this country.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

grumbler

Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:43:13 PM
Heh. I meant this specific group of people that has their own culture and history and are a very important part of this country.

Except that they have a number of different cultures and histories.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

dps

Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:

Why? I mean it is not a big deal but the fact there is not really a term that describes the descendants of the enslaved people in the US only has been a thing for awhile.

But not every black American is a descendent of those who were held in slavery in American.  There were always a number of free blacks in the US, and there are black people who came to the US after the abolition of slavery.

Valmy

#7559
Quote from: dps on August 23, 2019, 11:38:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2019, 03:17:49 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 23, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Well this got cringy fast.  :bleeding:

Why? I mean it is not a big deal but the fact there is not really a term that describes the descendants of the enslaved people in the US only has been a thing for awhile.

But not every black American is a descendent of those who were held in slavery in American.  There were always a number of free blacks in the US, and there are black people who came to the US after the abolition of slavery.

Even if they were free blacks they were still part of that society and culture.

And yes I am aware there are now huge numbers of black people who are, or are descended from, more recent immigrants, that was my entire point.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."