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Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

Started by Syt, December 06, 2015, 01:55:02 PM

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garbon

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time. :hmm:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time.

If only semantic manipulation could not grow and change over time. :hmm:

grumbler

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 06:01:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time.

If only semantic manipulation could not grow and change over time. :hmm:

The use of -phobia in a non-medical context (and your assertion that -phobia just means "fear of" is the medical definition, not the broader informal use) isn't new and isn't "semantic manipulation."  It's how languages work.  At least the "Christianophobia types" aren't trying to use Greek root words like the medical types do.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: grumbler on April 22, 2019, 06:34:05 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 06:01:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time.

If only semantic manipulation could not grow and change over time. :hmm:

The use of -phobia in a non-medical context (and your assertion that -phobia just means "fear of" is the medical definition, not the broader informal use) isn't new and isn't "semantic manipulation."  It's how languages work.  At least the "Christianophobia types" aren't trying to use Greek root words like the medical types do.

Using some psychiatry language to describe and diabolise opponents reminds too much of the distorted Soviet use over here, so let us get out of the " Cage aux phobes", shan't we? It's not like we use gynophobia instead of misogyny, unless precisely in a medical context, alleged evolution of the language or not.
You hit almost the nail on the head, with the remark about "Christianophobia types", it's indeed one of those manipulative uses. As for languages, maybe English had a headstart with the US Identity politics left crowd, but for other languages the manipulative use of phobia only appeared recently.

PS : irrational fear actually, before purists strike at me, cf. agoraphobia.

garbon

So this is just some phobia regarding how people use terms in English? :zzz
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 09:32:50 AM
You hit almost the nail on the head, with the remark about "Christianophobia types", it's indeed one of those manipulative uses. As for languages, maybe English had a headstart with the US Identity politics left crowd, but for other languages the manipulative use of phobia only appeared recently.

The use of "phobia" in English in this context, e.g. "Francophobia", "Anglophobia", "Russophobia," "Sinophobia", etc. is long and well-established and has nothing to do with the "US Identity politics left crowd."
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 09:37:35 AM
So this is just some phobia regarding how people use terms in English? :zzz

Phobia (Fear) ≠ Hate
Should be even easier than distinguishing the bubbly stuff you drink from champagne.  :P

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:22:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 09:32:50 AM
You hit almost the nail on the head, with the remark about "Christianophobia types", it's indeed one of those manipulative uses. As for languages, maybe English had a headstart with the US Identity politics left crowd, but for other languages the manipulative use of phobia only appeared recently.

The use of "phobia" in English in this context, e.g. "Francophobia", "Anglophobia", "Russophobia," "Sinophobia", etc. is long and well-established and has nothing to do with the "US Identity politics left crowd."

So the misuse has gained acceptance? Sad for English, but Garbon claimed this is how languages evolve, not just limiting it to English.
"Francophobia" (still hate the term) having some local champions on Languish.  :D (not you).
It's true that fear of foreigners turns more often into hate than the other so-called phobias, though hate of foreigners is not necessary linked to fear.

In French, ridiculous uses such as grossophobie (sic) only showed up recently.
Nothing to do with he US Identity Politics left? Unfortunately, they, and their copycats abroad love using phobia for whatever political purpose. Hence the Muray quote, sortir de la cage aux phobes, a pun with Cage aux Folles the Bird Cage.

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2019, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 04:35:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
They specifically target a lot of things and a lot of people.  Should we also start recognizing Yazidiphobia, aid worker phobia, journalistphobia, subway rider phobia, ancient Roman ruin phobia, etc., etc., etc?

We should start by not using -phobia for hatred since phobia means fear.  :nerd: Mis(o) or anti- work fine.

If only languages could grow and change over time. :hmm:

Well I do think if you are going to use "phobia" the idea is there is an irrational reaction going on. So there is a phobic type reaction going on, or at least that is the implication and why "homophobia" was used for example.

I would rather we go that way then some kind of anti-intellectual take like the one you made. Languages and word use do matter and are worth discussing.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Minsky Moment

It appears from some quick searches that this use of -phobia goes back at least to the 19th century. 
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

PDH

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
It appears from some quick searches that this use of -phobia goes back at least to the 19th century.

The left-wing rot goes deeper than we imagined!
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
It appears from some quick searches that this use of -phobia goes back at least to the 19th century. 

Xenophobia I presume?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

crazy canuck

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 10:34:26 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:22:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 09:32:50 AM
You hit almost the nail on the head, with the remark about "Christianophobia types", it's indeed one of those manipulative uses. As for languages, maybe English had a headstart with the US Identity politics left crowd, but for other languages the manipulative use of phobia only appeared recently.

The use of "phobia" in English in this context, e.g. "Francophobia", "Anglophobia", "Russophobia," "Sinophobia", etc. is long and well-established and has nothing to do with the "US Identity politics left crowd."

Sad for English, but Garbon claimed this is how languages evolve, not just limiting it to English.

But Garbon's claim is correct.  The meaning of words do change over time.  Sometimes they change so much that they come to mean the opposite of what they had previously meant.

Take the word "nice" as an example.  What is happening with the word phobia is far less extreme.  A phobia is ascribed to an irrational fear - which is apt.

alfred russel

Quote from: PDH on April 22, 2019, 10:52:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 22, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
It appears from some quick searches that this use of -phobia goes back at least to the 19th century.

The left-wing rot goes deeper than we imagined!

That was also the era of Marx and Engels. We may not be looking at generic left wing rot: this may be a genuine communist plot...

"The bourgeoisie, in truth, is bound to fear the stupidity of the masses so long as they remain conservative, and the insight of the masses as soon as they become revolutionary. Fear defines the outlook of the bourgeoisie to the masses, and as such the various prejudices of the bourgeoisie should be defined as phobias, for that is what they truly are." - Karl Marx

Dear god it is true...
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014