Author Topic: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families  (Read 284819 times)

Eddie Teach

  • Neil
  • ***************
  • Posts: 33601
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6810 on: March 13, 2019, 12:05:53 am »
It's not such a complete correlation. Much of it is anti-western rather than anti-Jewish.
You know I'm going to lose
And gambling's for fools
But that's the way I like it
Baby, I don't want to live forever.

Benedict Arnold

  • Sugar Glider
  • *******
  • Posts: 2845
  • "All is Dust"
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6811 on: March 13, 2019, 01:54:49 am »
Can anyone point to an actual Antisemitic tweet she made?  Not a reported and abridged tweet, but an actual complete tweet?  I've found the reporting of what they actually said to be incredibly messed up with blatant editing of them or seemingly intentional misinterpretation when they were summarized.  Now compare the actual tweets to what the President and many others have tweeted and said.  In full.  With context.  There is no legitimate comparison for the levels of Antisemitism.
"Love to my country actuates my present conduct, however it may appear inconsistent to the world, who very seldom judge right of any man's actions."

"...this was a bitter tormented soul, a sinner who mocked both gods and men. He served but found no pride in service. He fought but took no joy in victory. He drank, to drown his pain in a sea of wine. He did not love, nor was he loved himself."

My conscience hath a thousand several tongues,
And every tongue brings in a several tale,
And every tale condemns me for a villain.
Richard III, 5. 3

katmai

  • Global Moderator
  • Blessed by Valmy
  • *****
  • Posts: 15796
  • Bully
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6812 on: March 13, 2019, 02:44:35 am »
The Jews are alright, now those fucking Irish......
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

garbon

  • Neil
  • ***************
  • Posts: 51113
  • let's play bullets and bracelets
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6813 on: March 13, 2019, 02:50:14 am »
Also she can't being able to resist voicing the backward anti-semitic stuff I suspect he brings from her parents' household and upbringing doesn't help.
Anti-Israel /= Anti-Semitic
No, they're not equal, in a way that a correlation coefficient of 0.99 is technically not equal.

Unless you're "anti-Israel" to mean something pretty drastic, that's codswallop.

I think this Vox article points out how poorly constructed anti-Israeli comments due provide cover for anti-semitic garbage. About half way down is a bit on Labour and Corbyn.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/12/18220241/ilhan-omars-twitter-tweet-anti-semitism
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

  • Neil
  • ***************
  • Posts: 51113
  • let's play bullets and bracelets
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6814 on: March 13, 2019, 02:52:45 am »
The Jews are alright, now those fucking Irish......

I'll say. :perv:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Admiral Yi

  • Neil
  • ***************
  • Posts: 38823
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6815 on: March 13, 2019, 03:32:50 am »
I think this Vox article points out how poorly constructed anti-Israeli comments due provide cover for anti-semitic garbage. About half way down is a bit on Labour and Corbyn.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/12/18220241/ilhan-omars-twitter-tweet-anti-semitism

Your link supports my point, that "there is legitimate criticism of Israel that is not not anti-Semitic.  Which is a no-brainer.

The only question for DGuller was whether "anti-Israel" means "kill them all" or whether it means stop doing that nasty shit.
I'm up $25 on DGuller.

Benedict Arnold

  • Sugar Glider
  • *******
  • Posts: 2845
  • "All is Dust"
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6816 on: March 13, 2019, 03:45:12 am »
Speaking out against Saudi Arabia doesn't mean one is anti-Islamic, right?  Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are countries dominated by one religion and home to the holy place associated with their respective religions.  Both have some rather reprehensible actions associated with their respective governments.  Both have a lot of influence in the United States politics.  Both have adherents of the religion that dominates their respective nations within the United States and globally.
"Love to my country actuates my present conduct, however it may appear inconsistent to the world, who very seldom judge right of any man's actions."

"...this was a bitter tormented soul, a sinner who mocked both gods and men. He served but found no pride in service. He fought but took no joy in victory. He drank, to drown his pain in a sea of wine. He did not love, nor was he loved himself."

My conscience hath a thousand several tongues,
And every tongue brings in a several tale,
And every tale condemns me for a villain.
Richard III, 5. 3

garbon

  • Neil
  • ***************
  • Posts: 51113
  • let's play bullets and bracelets
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6817 on: March 13, 2019, 04:11:51 am »
Speaking out against Saudi Arabia doesn't mean one is anti-Islamic, right?  Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are countries dominated by one religion and home to the holy place associated with their respective religions.  Both have some rather reprehensible actions associated with their respective governments.  Both have a lot of influence in the United States politics.  Both have adherents of the religion that dominates their respective nations within the United States and globally.

I'd suggest reading the vox article I posted.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Tamas

  • Blessed by Valmy
  • **************
  • Posts: 17828
  • we are not in Kansas anymore
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6818 on: March 13, 2019, 05:01:47 am »
There are plenty of valid reasons to criticise the present Israeli government but "Israel controls US/world leaders and opinion" is NOT a commentary on that government. Let's not hide behind that obvious bullshit.

Malthus

  • Blessed by Valmy
  • **************
  • Posts: 19508
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6819 on: March 13, 2019, 07:19:18 am »
Speaking out against Saudi Arabia doesn't mean one is anti-Islamic, right?  Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are countries dominated by one religion and home to the holy place associated with their respective religions.  Both have some rather reprehensible actions associated with their respective governments.  Both have a lot of influence in the United States politics.  Both have adherents of the religion that dominates their respective nations within the United States and globally.

I think you misunderstand the nature of the relationship of Judaism to Israel, if you are making a serious comparison of it to Wahhabism and Saudi Arabia.  :lol:

Judaism is both a religion and a tribal identity (similar but not identical to an ethnicity). A large percentage of Jews, both in Israel and in the West, are not religious at all. The notion that Israel is "dominated" by religious Judaism in the same way as Saudi Arabia is dominated by Wahhabian Islam is nonsense - which isn't to say that the ultra-religious don't have an irritating amount of clout within Israel. But for all that, Israel is basically a western nation, with (to give but one example) the largest gay community in the middle east - something literally punishable by death in Saudi Arabia.

Moreover, within America, Jews are not uniformly backers of Israel. For historical reasons, Jews tend, as a group, to be *more* liberal than non-Jews, and many Jews are outspoken critics of Israel from the left. That's not unusual--within Israel, many Israelis are critical of their own government, again often from the left. Not something you find much in Saudi Arabia.

This error is similar to assuming (say) that all Irish people are Catholic, and so Ireland is "just like" Saudi Arabia; noting that the Irish are found throughout the United States; and warning that the Irish presence creates a security threat - all those Irish are surely more loyal to the Pope than to America. This position was actually a factor during the election of Kennedy.

Israel has lots of problems, but lumping all Jews together, comparing Israel to Saudi Arabia (or Nazi Germany or Aparthied-era South Africa) isn't a good rhetorical way to highlight those problems.   

Malthus

  • Blessed by Valmy
  • **************
  • Posts: 19508
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6820 on: March 13, 2019, 08:47:16 am »
Speaking out against Saudi Arabia doesn't mean one is anti-Islamic, right?  Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are countries dominated by one religion and home to the holy place associated with their respective religions.  Both have some rather reprehensible actions associated with their respective governments.  Both have a lot of influence in the United States politics.  Both have adherents of the religion that dominates their respective nations within the United States and globally.

I'd suggest reading the vox article I posted.

It's a good article.

crazy canuck

  • Blessed by Valmy
  • **************
  • Posts: 23342
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6821 on: March 13, 2019, 09:54:02 am »
It is hard to have a conversation when the common ground is so devoid of commonality.  Have a nice day.

Have you considered avoiding starting off with sarcasm? That might go a long way towards establishing commonality.

I started out by listing some of the better known publications that take her ideas seriously.  I am not sure how that was read as sarcasm. 

Valmy

  • Neil
  • ***************
  • Posts: 44532
  • Champions du Monde
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6822 on: March 13, 2019, 10:02:07 am »
She is also getting a lot of support for her ideas from places like the Economist, which grudgingly admits she makes good points about taxation policy and the New York Times which regularly runs editorials pointing out that she has done her homework on this issues and that her ideas are not as radical as people seem to think.  There was a recent piece which argued the radicals are the GOP and that her suggested polices would take America back to more sane taxation policies the US had before it was hijacked by the radical right.

I really don't understand you and others here dismissing her so easily.
I think it's mainly two parts.  The hard right is just totally deranged when it comes to anything involving her.  The moderates without a cause are often susceptible to go down the rabbit hole halfway, and being too busy admiring their rationality to realize that they're still in the rabbit hole.

That is why we have you around DGuller. You can set us straight.
If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!

Valmy is practically french. :frog:

Honorary gay award from Martinus

DGuller

  • Blessed by Valmy
  • **************
  • Posts: 20877
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6823 on: March 13, 2019, 10:52:04 am »
Itís a tough and thankless job, but someone has to do it.

The Minsky Moment

  • Octogon Champion
  • *************
  • Posts: 11357
  • Requiem for a Scheme
Re: Facebook Follies of Friends and Families
« Reply #6824 on: March 13, 2019, 12:49:55 pm »
I agree with Malthus 95%.  The 5% concern is that there has been a real degeneration in governance and human rights in the past decade. The Likud-led government seems to be sliding inexorably toward the Orban-Erdogan-Putin corrupt authoritarian continuum. Israel is still better governed and far more robust rule of law than other nations in the neighborhood but the trend is very troubling.  The treatment of the Palestinians is inexcusable even given the security situation.  Toleration of dissent has gone way down with official efforts to suppress NGOs and retaliate against journalists.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson