Author Topic: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread  (Read 13474 times)

The Minsky Moment

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #525 on: June 27, 2019, 01:48:34 pm »
This sudden surge of people claiming asylum (which is not, per se, illegal immigration) is fairly unprecedented, and is different than the movement to protect DREAMERs and other attempts Obama made at immigration reform.  Although this started at the very tail end of Obama's presidency, it largely is not an issue he faced.

it's not really that unprecedented, it's just been a while.  I do appreciate you noting that asylee claimants are not illegal immigrants, a seemingly obvious point beyond the mental understanding of our President.  The right to apply for asylum is recognized and protected under international and US domestic law.

Recently the largest country of origin for applicants to the US is Venezuela. I would think that Trump and his supporters would not be so quick to claim such applications meritless given their stark characterizations of country conditions there.  The PRC is also still a major source of applicants, for obvious and understandable reasons given political trends there.

We are now finishing of a full decade of declining freedom and democracy worldwide, it is inevitable that asylum claims will rise as long as that trend holds.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 02:46:41 pm by The Minsky Moment »
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Berkut

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #526 on: June 27, 2019, 01:51:05 pm »
Who are you arguing with Berkut?

The point I was disagreeing with was when you asserted there was "no crisis".  I attempted to say there is, but it's not the crisis that Trump keeps talking about - building a wall does nothing to stop people from claiming asylum.  But then I just get labelled a Trumpette for my trouble.

You, who claimed that there was a crisis OUTSIDE THE FACT THAT WE ARE STICKING CHILDREN IN CAGES, and claimed that both parties were to blame, and have been excusing the rights culpability in creating the entire mess for their own populist agenda.
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Berkut

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #527 on: June 27, 2019, 01:58:54 pm »
Quote from: BarritersForTrump
I just have to chime in here - there's nothing fictional about the border crisis.

This was in response to my post saying:

Quote
Lets not forget to assign blame here it really belongs:

To the Tea Party/Right wing "conservatives" who have taken over the Republican Party with cracking down on a fictional immigration crisis as their primary political rallying cry.

The current right wing Trumpettes didn't take over the Party last week, or last year. They did so back in the early years of the 2010s, even earlier, when there literally was no actual border crisis.

Your claim is simply false. The "crisis" that had people chanting about Mexican funded walls was non-existent when Trump was elected. His incredible refusal to do anything about handling the border that didn't include a petulant man baby wall has made an upsurge in aslylum seekers turn into a crisis, but one you insist is not really his fault, it is a "pox on both their houses" because the Dems should have...what exactly? What should they have done to handle the problem while your besties were controlling the Senate, House and Presidency for the first two years of the Trump admin?
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The Minsky Moment

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #528 on: June 27, 2019, 02:56:08 pm »
Some asylum stats from USCIS: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Outreach/Notes%20from%20Previous%20Engagements/PED_AffirmativeAsylumStatisticsMar2019.pdf

These are for March 2019 but the numbers are consistent with what has been reported the last few months.

Venezuela and China are the top 2 countries of origin. Together they account for over 40% of applications.

The office receiving the most applications by FAR is Miami.  "Border" jurisdictions have high numbers as well but not much different from air ports of entry like Newark, NY, San Fran, Chicago. 

The fact simply don't support there is some massive and unusual asylum application crisis on the Mexican border.  If there is a an issue here at all, it's the surge of Venezuelans coming through Miami.  Funny that isn't getting as much news.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 02:58:01 pm by The Minsky Moment »
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Razgovory

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #529 on: June 27, 2019, 03:40:07 pm »
I'd say that the "Crisis" began in 2007 with the failed effort to reform immigration by the Bush administration.  The crisis is not one on the border but that collapse of the conservative movement in the US and it's replacement by the Nationalist movement.
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Admiral Yi

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #530 on: June 27, 2019, 04:03:15 pm »
Some asylum stats from USCIS <snip>

Those numbers for applications filed by people from Central America seem suspiciously low.  Makes me wonder if there's a geographical divergence between people showing up and applications filed.
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Valmy

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #531 on: July 01, 2019, 11:23:54 am »
Who are you arguing with Berkut?

The point I was disagreeing with was when you asserted there was "no crisis".  I attempted to say there is, but it's not the crisis that Trump keeps talking about - building a wall does nothing to stop people from claiming asylum.  But then I just get labelled a Trumpette for my trouble.

That is not a crisis at the border though. That has nothing really to do with the border and the claim is that there is a crisis at the border that requires physical intervention.

I mean I am sure there are numerous crisis-type situations the government has to manage, and one might be dealing with asylum seekers, but there is none at the actual physical border.

That is the reason I get annoyed by this sort of twisting of meanings. Trump claims something insane and then people do apologetic backflips to try to make it sound not insane and statesmanlike. I would appreciate if the President himself would provide those sorts of explanations instead of needing to rely on internet apologists.

Not that you are one, I rather suspect you are the victim of their twisting of terms and facts.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 02:53:53 pm by Valmy »
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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #532 on: July 01, 2019, 02:17:17 pm »
Border patrol agents, not the kindest souls on Earth exactly.

Quote
Inside the Secret Border Patrol Facebook Group Where Agents Joke About Migrant Deaths and Post Sexist Memes
The three-year-old group, which has roughly 9,500 members, shared derogatory comments about Latina lawmakers who plan to visit a controversial Texas detention facility on Monday, calling them “scum buckets” and “hoes.”

Members of a secret Facebook group for current and former Border Patrol agents joked about the deaths of migrants, discussed throwing burritos at Latino members of Congress visiting a detention facility in Texas on Monday and posted a vulgar illustration depicting Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez engaged in oral sex with a detained migrant, according to screenshots of their postings.

In one exchange, group members responded with indifference and wisecracks to the post of a news story about a 16-year-old Guatemalan migrant who died in May while in custody at a Border Patrol station in Weslaco, Texas. One member posted a GIF of Elmo with the quote, “Oh well.” Another responded with an image and the words “If he dies, he dies.”

Created in August 2016, the Facebook group is called “I’m 10-15” and boasts roughly 9,500 members from across the country. (10-15 is Border Patrol code for “aliens in custody.”) The group described itself, in an online introduction, as a forum for “funny” and “serious” discussion about work with the patrol. “Remember you are never alone in this family,” the introduction said.

Responsible for policing the nation’s southern and northern boundaries, the Border Patrol has come under intense scrutiny as the Trump administration takes new, more aggressive measures to halt the influx of undocumented migrants across the United States-Mexico border. The patrol’s approximately 20,000 agents serve under the broader U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency, which has been faulted for allegedly mistreating children and adults in its custody. The agency’s leadership has been in turmoil, with its most recent acting chief, John Sanders, resigning last week.

ProPublica received images of several recent discussions in the 10-15 Facebook group and was able to link the participants in those online conversations to apparently legitimate Facebook profiles belonging to Border Patrol agents, including a supervisor based in El Paso, Texas, and an agent in Eagle Pass, Texas. ProPublica has so far been unable to reach the group members who made the postings.

ProPublica contacted three spokespeople for CBP in regard to the Facebook group and provided the names of three agents who appear to have participated in the online chats. CBP hasn’t yet responded.

“These comments and memes are extremely troubling,” said Daniel Martinez, a sociologist at the University of Arizona in Tucson who studies the border. “They’re clearly xenophobic and sexist.”

The postings, in his view, reflect what “seems to be a pervasive culture of cruelty aimed at immigrants within CBP. This isn’t just a few rogue agents or ‘bad apples.’”

The Border Patrol Facebook group is the most recent example of some law enforcement personnel behaving badly in public and private digital spaces. An investigation by Reveal uncovered hundreds of active-duty and retired law enforcement officers who moved in extremist Facebook circles, including white supremacist and anti-government groups. A team of researchers calling themselves the Plain View Project recently released a hefty database of offensive Facebook posts made by current and ex-law enforcement officers.

And in early 2018, federal investigators found a raft of disturbing and racist text messages sent by Border Patrol agents in southern Arizona after searching the phone of Matthew Bowen, an agent charged with running down a Guatemalan migrant with a Ford F-150 pickup truck. The texts, which were revealed in a court filing in federal court in Tucson, described migrants as “guats,” “wild ass shitbags,” “beaners” and “subhuman.” The messages included repeated discussions about burning the migrants up.

Several of the postings reviewed by ProPublica refer to the planned visit by members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, including Ocasio-Cortez and Rep. Veronica Escobar, to a troubled Border Patrol facility outside of El Paso. Agents at the compound in Clint, Texas, have been accused of holding children in neglectful, inhumane conditions.

Members of the Border Patrol Facebook group were not enthused about the tour, noting that Ocasio-Cortez, a Democrat from Queens, had compared Border Patrol facilities to Nazi concentration camps. Escobar is a freshman Democrat representing El Paso.

One member encouraged Border Patrol agents to hurl a “burrito at these bitches.” Another, apparently a patrol supervisor, wrote, “Fuck the hoes.” “There should be no photo ops for these scum buckets,” posted a third member.

Perhaps the most disturbing posts target Ocasio-Cortez. One includes a photo illustration of her engaged in oral sex at an immigrant detention center. Text accompanying the image reads, “Lucky Illegal Immigrant Glory Hole Special Starring AOC.”

Another is a photo illustration of a smiling President Donald Trump forcing Ocasio-Cortez’s head toward his crotch. The agent who posted the image commented: “That’s right bitches. The masses have spoken and today democracy won.”

The posts about Escobar and Ocasio-Cortez are “vile and sexist,” said a staffer for Escobar. “Furthermore, the comments made by Border Patrol agents towards immigrants, especially those that have lost their lives, are disgusting and show a complete disregard for human life and dignity.”

The head of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, Joaquin Castro, reviewed the Facebook discussions and was incensed. “It confirms some of the worst criticisms of Customs and Border Protection,” said Castro, a Democrat who represents San Antonio. “These are clearly agents who are desensitized to the point of being dangerous to migrants and their co-workers.” He added that the agents who made the vulgar comments “don’t deserve to wear any uniform representing the United States of America.”

Vicki Gaubeca, director of the Southern Border Communities Coalition, said the postings are more evidence of the sexism and misogyny that has long plagued the Border Patrol. “That’s why they’re the worst at recruiting women,” said Gaubeca, whose group works to reform the agency. “They have the lowest percentage of female agents or officers of any federal law enforcement agency.”

In another thread, a group member posted a photo of father and his 23-month-old daughter lying face down in the Rio Grande. The pair drowned while trying to ford the river and cross into the U.S.; pictures of the two have circulated widely online in recent days, generating an outcry.

The member asked if the photo could have been faked because the bodies were so “clean.” (The picture was taken by an Associated Press photographer, and there is no indication that it was staged or manipulated.) “I HAVE NEVER SEEN FLOATERS LIKE THIS,” the person wrote, adding, “could this be another edited photo. We’ve all seen the dems and liberal parties do some pretty sick things…”

The Brain

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #533 on: July 01, 2019, 02:49:23 pm »
How secret can a Facebook group be?
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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #534 on: July 01, 2019, 02:50:43 pm »
Law enforcement in the US doesn't attract the brightest, Brain. This is pretty much par for the course.

Valmy

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #535 on: July 01, 2019, 02:52:01 pm »
Well I don't know. I am hesitant to start making generalizations on people based on Facebook.
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Valmy

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #536 on: July 01, 2019, 02:52:31 pm »
Law enforcement in the US doesn't attract the brightest, Brain. This is pretty much par for the course.

Does it attract the brightest anywhere?
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Eddie Teach

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #537 on: July 01, 2019, 02:59:54 pm »
Cops being assholes? /mind blown
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Razgovory

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #538 on: July 01, 2019, 03:39:13 pm »
Record the names for the incoming Harris administration.  "If you get black-listed, you get black-listed".
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

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Re: ICE ICE BABY: The Immigration Megathread
« Reply #539 on: July 01, 2019, 10:38:58 pm »
Law enforcement in the US doesn't attract the brightest, Brain. This is pretty much par for the course.
It's more than that, it's the culture.  I searched through several cop forums a couple of times a while back, just out of curiosity.  All cop forums have external-facing fora and the internal ones, where you have to prove your membership in some law enforcement agency to be allowed in. 

Obviously I could only read the external ones, but even those left no doubt in my mind that most of the US cops who post there would be unquestioning and enthusiastic goons if they were magically transported to a more authoritarian place and time.  If this is how they think and talk knowing that "civilians" can be reading them, then their bigotry, sociopathy, and lack of reflection must be so normalized that they don't even remember anymore what being on good behavior entails.