Poll

How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
11 (12.1%)
British - Leave
7 (7.7%)
Other European - Remain
19 (20.9%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6.6%)
ROTW - Remain
29 (31.9%)
ROTW - Leave
19 (20.9%)

Total Members Voted: 91

Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 367424 times)

Tamas

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8310 on: February 20, 2019, 04:02:53 pm »
Because her deal is terrible.
And it is not the only solution. The UK fully has it within its power to delay brexit. The EU won't make May's deal shittier but in the past they have clearly laid out several far better options that are open to us.

Or, hell, if we are insisting it is the only solution then democracy got us into this mess, let democracy decide if we do want Brexit (which we now know means May's deal).

But no. It is a terrible deal if you want to remain or if you want to crash out. In any other case it is the best possible compromise because it leaves the door open for anything. After signing her deal we can still get Norway, we can still get Canada, and in the meantime nothing changes.

crazy canuck

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8311 on: February 20, 2019, 04:05:47 pm »
Yeah I am against a second referendum...and I don't just mean for Brexit I mean forever about anything.

I agree.  Parliament should just act to stop the insanity.  But, as we have discussed before, for some reason the birth place of the British Parliamentary System has forgotten how the British Parliamentary System is supposed to function.  Everyone in Britain seems to be convinced that Parliament is powerless because of the dubious results of an unconstitutional referendum.

Admiral Yi

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8312 on: February 20, 2019, 04:06:10 pm »
I was just going to say, her deal is actually pretty good IMO, unless you're one of those multiple red line people, which most MPs are, which is what's driving the car of state over the cliff.
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Tyr

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8313 on: February 20, 2019, 04:25:57 pm »
The big problem with her deal is it is so time limited.
It is not a 'things stay as they are until we get a deal' deal. It's a new, much harsher countdown, that begins to strip away our rights piece by piece. Its less running towards a cliff edge and more jumping off and hoping someone places a net at the bottom.
 It opens a new phase of negotiations where we have already decided to sacrifice what power we ever had.

Any deal needs to guarantee free movement and the customs union remain intact for the sake of the UK continuing to have an economy and peace remaining in Ireland- John Oliver's use of Zombie was awesome to illustrate the gravity of this.
Why bother with this deal? Why not just delay brexit itself and work on getting a better deal whilst we have control of the count down.
Its a stupid deal that is being forced down our throats purely so May can proudly say she has done brexit.
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Tamas

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8314 on: February 20, 2019, 04:41:17 pm »
The big problem with her deal is it is so time limited.
It is not a 'things stay as they are until we get a deal' deal. It's a new, much harsher countdown, that begins to strip away our rights piece by piece.


Uhm, no. It removes rights that would be removed by Brexit.

For the transitional period, Britain would be like Norway. Then in the "backstop" period, Britain would be like Norway except no freedom of movement. And this would be maintained for the 14 years until the trade negotiations are concluded with the EU (and probably the UK will ask to be readmitted).

The Minsky Moment

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8315 on: February 20, 2019, 05:06:47 pm »
Why is she the villain and not the MPs who are unwilling to vote for what to me looks like the only reasonable solution?

Waiting to the last minute to try to cram down a deal without first marshalling the political support, especially when you know you have to deal with lunatic Tory deadenders fantasizing about 1940 and feckless Corbynites is an act of monumental political idiocy.

She wasted the better part of 2 years dithering around and mouthing meaningless nonsense like "Brexit means Brexit." Her entire Brexit strategy was to avoid being seen as committing to anything specific that could draw criticism.  That kept her politically alive for 2 years but at the cost of leaving the country entirely unprepared and reliant on the EU to bail her out by agreeing to an interim standstill.

A responsible politician would have committed to a particular vision or plan for Brexit, built political support for it, and planned for it.  Even a crash out no deal hard Brexit could have been made to sort of work if you spent two years of hard focused work planning for it. But this government planned for nothing - indeed their plan was not to plan and pressure Parliament into the scotch tape and balsa wood interim deal by pulling the pin on the hand grenade.

The best you can say for May it that is impossible for a British leader to act responsible and stay an office in the present political environment, so she did no worse than any of the lousy feasible alternatives.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 05:09:17 pm by The Minsky Moment »
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Syt

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8316 on: February 21, 2019, 02:23:47 pm »
https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/1098505570473132032?s=20

Quote
James Wong
@Botanygeek

Just tried to order something online from Denmark.

Apparently they no longer sell to the UK, as orders accepted now may arrive after March 29 & might not be able to be fulfilled.

I can't even get work supplies delivered in the time frame our gov has to sort their mess out.
Here in these streets are the things that we want: sex and birth, votes and traits, money and guilt, television and teddy bears. But all we've actually got is each other. You decide what that means.

mongers

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8317 on: February 21, 2019, 03:47:13 pm »
Quote

The UK won't be able to roll over an EU trade deal with Japan in time for a no-deal Brexit, Trade Secretary Liam Fox has said.

It was one of the most important EU trade deals the UK hoped to replicate ahead of the 29 March withdrawal date.

The trade department also said it would not be able to roll over the EU's customs union deal with Turkey on time.


In 2017, Mr Fox said the UK would be able to replicate 40 EU free trade deals by Brexit day.

But so far the department has only been able to finalise "continuity agreements" with seven of the 69 countries and regions with which the EU has trade deals.


 <_<

Full item here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47319533
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Richard Hakluyt

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8318 on: February 21, 2019, 11:20:59 pm »
I flicked over to the Parliament channel last night and got hooked on a broadcast of the House of Lords European Select Committee and their discussion with Sir Ivan Rogers (recently retired top-level British mandarin with vast EU expertise). It was mesmerising. Firstly, Sir Ivan's vast knowledge and clarity of thought are in the best traditions of the Civil service; secondly, goverment ministers had that level of advice available to them from the beginning and chose to indulge in ridiculous fantasies instead.

Oh well; I'm at least pleased to see that stupidity has not reached all the corners of British life.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/eu-select-committee-/news-parliament-2017/ivan-rogers-evidence-session/

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/0a3b6029-656d-4b3d-bb81-632fd6700268

Razgovory

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8319 on: Today at 12:32:34 am »
Are any British politicians going to come out looking good in this?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

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Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8320 on: Today at 02:21:37 am »
If Britain ever ends up a 3rd rate shithole you'll still be able to take solace in the fact that your Oxbridge grads are able to string together complex sentences delightfully and fluently.
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